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Saturday Evening Movie Thread - 11/01/2025

Mario Bava


Mario Bava is as emblematic of Italian cinema as Federico Fellini, Vittorio di Sica, or Roberto Rossellini. Moreso, perhaps. His dreamlike visions of gothic horror, that which he's known best for, is part of a package that includes spaghetti westerns (The Road to Fort Alamo and Jay Colt and Winchester Jack), Giallo horror (The Girl Who Knew Too Much and Blood and Black Lace), and sword and sandal epics (Erik the Conqueror and Knives of the Avenger), all popular genres in Italy that sold as well, if not better, than the more high brow counterparts and contemporaries aforementioned.

But he's not taken seriously because he worked in genre, which the critical crowd long held as impersonal and beneath serious consideration. That's changed recently (a positive change in the critical community matched by a host of negative things that far outweigh it), so it makes me wonder what would Bava's career had been if he had made Black Sunday or Kill, Baby, Kill in 2015 rather than the 60s and 70s.

The story of Bava's career is far from smooth, though. Working in the Italian film industry, looking to entertain and without some kind of cult following of investors willing to throw a million dollars at him just to make anything, he was constantly working with independent producers, trying to get anything off the ground. That's what really created his varied filmography of different genres, a good bit of which were chasing trends rather than trying to create them. Still, when Bava worked...he worked.

Style over Substance


Style over substance is typically viewed as a bad thing, an empty exercise is formalism without anything to say about the human condition in order to connect with audiences. However, I do think that it can mesh well and create really entertaining packages that Bava exemplifies.

Take his first film, Black Sunday. A black and white gothic horror piece, it's a very simple story of a witch, trapped by magic (or something), broken free by modern men in the late 19th century and then goes on a terror rampage in the vaguely Eastern European backdrop. Characterization is thin, and the plot is barely existent, but it's a really fun ride in large part because the storytelling is so wane. This gives Bava plenty of space and a simple palate on which to paint his gothic horrors. This gives him time to use images to actually heighten the simple storytelling, creating implicit thematic meaning through explicit imagery that no one actually talks about. It becomes a heavily Christian film about the power of the Christian belief over evil, and it's in large part because Bava has the time and space to use imagery to help imbue meaning.

I'm not here to imply or explain that that's how all of his films work, or even all of his best films, but there is something to embracing stylistic excess that can lead to increased meaning. I mean...I don't think there's anything like that in Blood and Black Lace, but it does heighten the realities of movies like The Whip and the Body and Planet of the Vampires, creating moods and atmospheres that become compelling on their own. I mean, the smoke-filled dreamlike realities of the sadomasochist nightmare that is The Whip and the Body and the Technicolor alien landscapes of Planet of the Vampires are just fascinating to look at, even if the actual stories are threadbare. That's a specific skill that Bava brings to the table, and it's his strongest attribute. However, like many directors, he had weaknesses.

Narrative


Holding together the needs of a film production in one's head is not a small task. You write down everything you can and you delegate to department heads to handle much of the work, but holding a vision in one's head to provide orders to writers, set designers, cinematographers, and actors all while fighting off producers is difficult. Combine that with the normal hectic nature of a film set where things constantly change because locations become unavailable, planned shots can't be executed, actors resist direction, and lights blow out, and the director must keep the production moving forward, all while having to pivot and improvise doesn't undermine the basic ideas of the script. Assuming the script is worthwhile at all. Which is to say that the toolbox a director needs to master is very large and very difficult to master.

Having the skillset to manage all of that is rare. Most directors are workman who can find perfectly acceptable solutions to these kinds of problems, but rely on the script to support them. Bava was seemingly like that, I think, with the added benefit of being visually stylish. He had writing credits on most of his films, but never sole writing credit, the credit he did receive being usually one of at least three, sometimes as many as six total writers. And the writing quality varied greatly, but the key for Bava was matching his stylistic approach with the right kind of script: spare horror, mostly.

The real problem came when he was matched with the rising popularity of Giallo cinema. Largely started by Bava's own The Girl Who Knew Too Much (retitled The Evil Eye in its American release), the genre grew to develop its own conventions without him, largely dictated by other Italian filmmakers like Dario Argento, and they were almost all whodunit proto-slashers that relied on investigation, larger casts of characters, and playing coy with the audience (often by outright lying to them about the secret identity of the killer). This sort of complexity was something that Bava seems to have had real trouble matching with his dreamlike stylings, so he could create works of deep frustration like Blood and Black Lace or Five Dolls in August or Hatchet for the Honeymoon that simply don't connect like they should because he doesn't have the space to play stylistically because he has to dedicate so much time to movements of plot and keeping track of large casts of characters, some of whom could be the real killer.

The Hunt for the Genre Killer


Bava is really known for his early career, dominated by gothic horror, and his later career which includes his most obviously influential film, A Bay of Blood, which is a massive inspiration for the Friday the 13th franchise and American slashers in general. However, its his middle period, from about 1964 to 1970, that I find the most interesting but deeply frustrating. It's where he became lost in the search for box office success by mimicking other people.

The big signal is the spaghetti westerns, The Road to Fort Alamo and Roy Colt and Winchester Jack. The first is a largely dull and uninteresting entry in the genre, made in the same year that Sergio Leone made A Fistful of Dollars, but the second is perhaps more interesting. Roy Colt and Winchester Jack was Bava taking on the assignment of a film and deciding to purposefully make a hash of it by turning it into a comedy. He made three comedies in his career (Dr. Goldfoot and the Girl-Bombs and Four Times That Night are the other two), and only one of them is anything close to good (the last, which is like Rashomon while considering a failed one-night stand). Roy Colt is deeply unfunny and frustrating as it navigates the conventions of the spaghetti western, which I found to be a very interesting choice. It was obvious that Bava was allowed to just make whatever he wanted, and instead of pushing the film towards his obvious natural inclinations like turning it into a gothic horror western (which would have been awesome, possibly), he went the "easy" route and tried to turn it into a comedy. I say easy because directing actors to be silly is less demanding financially than building and lighting sets to accommodate the needs of something like gothic horror.

This is also the period where he was most obviously chasing the runaway success of the Giallo genre. Giallo means yellow in Italian, and it refers to the yellow binding on cheap pulp novels, most of which were horror, that animated Italian pop culture for a time and influenced the genre. The conventions ended up being mysteries about a killer, usually of women, the killer typically being dominantly portrayed as a pair of gloved hands holding some kind of weapon like scissors for most of the runtime while a policeman or often an American actor playing a writer or something would pair up with a young woman to investigate, eventually finding the killer to have some kind of perverted motive. As I previously indicated, Bava's talents did not lend themselves to this kind of complicated storytelling, so we end up with damp squibs of films like Five Dolls for an August Moon.

Late Stage and an Early Death


My favorite Bava film (this is very much an unpopular opinion, by the way, its IMDB rating is in the low 6's) is Shock, his last filmed project (Kidnapped was filmed before but released in one form about fifteen years after Bava's death). And it represents what I think could have been his evolution into a new era where the gothic horror didn't sell. It's set in modern day, about a woman with a new husband and a child from her first marriage. There's a haunting, potential possession, and lots of creepy imagery that reminded me, in particular, of the creepy visuals from John Carpenter in Prince of Darkness.

And I think it works because the narrative is very spare, giving Bava time to dwell on the eerie. There's little to no plot as the mother tries to figure out why her kid is being so creepy (yeah, it is one of those movies), and things just get weirder, lines between reality and her nightmares blending the more the film goes on. It's the kind of narrative structure that Bava needed to flex his stylistic skills even if removed from the obvious original visual space of gothic horror.

It was obvious that the money side of things was becoming extremely difficult, though. That movie Kidnapped that he didn't get to finish and was only released fifteen years after his death? He'd filmed, reportedly, about 99% of it, missing only some inserts to tie scenes together, when the producer went bankrupt and took the print away from Bava so he couldn't finish it. Bava's son, Lambardo, eventually put together a cut that is probably pretty close to what Mario intended, and Mario died in 1980 of a heart attack at 60.

He'd spent twenty years in the film industry before he ever directed Black Sunday in 1960. He was an uncredited title designer on Scipione l'africano in 1938, working his way through assistant cameraman on projects to cinematographer for people like Rossellini on a couple of his short films, eventually becoming an assistant director in the late 50s, even completing projects for people like Riccardo Freda, and finally getting his shot at directing which he blew out of the gate with Black Sunday in stylish fashion.

He probably made films in the wrong era, but when he worked, he was cookin'. His stylish features like Black Sunday, The Whip and the Body, Planet of the Vampires, and Kill, Baby, Kill match with less obviously Bava-esque successes like Four Times that Night and Knives of the Avenger (Shane but with Vikings) to create an interesting, worthwhile body of work that may be uneven (Dr. Goldfoot and the Girl-Bombs is...not good) but has real gems within.

The Ultimate Bava


I am always on the search for the film that can define a filmmaker in microcosm. Usually it's some kind of example of their unique traits in the most obvious form (North by Northwest for Hitchcock or Gremlins 2 for Joe Dante) or the culmination of his talents in the most unified form (The Age of Innocence for Scorsese).

With Bava, I could go in two directions. There are the films that are most thoroughly and distinctly his, that most encompass his cinematic style. Films like Black Sabbath or Kill, Baby, Kill, filled with horror, the macabre, and Technicolor visuals.

However, I end up trending towards another film: Danger: Diabolik. I think of it because it feels like the perfect encapsulation of both the stylistic highs that Bava reached for but also the narrative struggle lows that hit him time and time again. It's essentially two films in one. The first focuses on the eponymous Diabolik, the master criminal, and his girlfriend Eva, and it's all dreamy looks at Mod-esque attitudes and ornate set design that is just weirdly compelling to watch. The second is this slapdash of a host of revolving door characters, almost all policemen, who are trying to come up with ways to catch the criminal which is deeply frustrating and not all that entertaining.

Is there a better microcosm of Bava overall? I don't think so. Danger: Diabolik is definitely not his best film, but it is the one that most fully defines him, I think. I'd sooner watch Planet of the Vampires, though.

Movies of Today

Opening in Theaters:

Bugonia

Movies I Saw This Fortnight:

Knives of the Avenger (Rating 3/4) Full Review "IHonestly, it feels like he's growing as an artist, which is a very nice thing to see." [Library]

Kill Baby, Kill (Rating 3/4) Full Review "It's a stylistic flex on his part, throwing as much fog and shadow and color into frame to make every moment interesting." [Personal Collection]

Danger: Diabolik (Rating 2/4) Full Review "So, it's frustrating as a whole." [Kanopy]

Four Times that Night (Rating 3/4) Full Review "Something of a small gem in Bava's career, all the more noteworthy for its differences from his more well-known work." [Library]

A Bay of Blood (Rating 2.5/4) Full Review "However, I end up enjoying the film a decent bit simply because Bava tries so hard. I really wouldn't call it good, but it's a fine, thing, stylish entertainment." [Amazon Prime]

Baron Blood (Rating 2/4) Full Review "I'm far from hating the film, but this is less than what I had hoped it would be. It's...fine. Not terribly engaging, but with moments of fun." [Amazon Prime]

Lisa and the Devil (Rating 2.5/4) Full Review "It's not some great piece of horror cinema, but it's solidly entertaining and showing that Bava could disappear a bit into gothic horror, subsuming his more outrageous stylistic flourishes in favor of a more muted visual tone. I'm kind of glad that Bava didn't rewrite it, is all." [Kanopy]

Shock (Rating 3.5/4) Full Review "I don't know if he would have been able to replicate the quality here, but I think it's evidence that he wasn't done yet." [YouTube]

Contact

Email any suggestions or questions to thejamesmadison.aos at symbol gmail dot com.
I've also archived all the old posts here, by request. I'll add new posts a week after they originally post at the HQ.

My next post will be on 11/22, and it will be about the directing career of Alexander Mackendrick.

In addition, I have started a YouTube channel. Please be so kind as to watch and subscribe here.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at 07:45 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Popcorn time

Posted by: Skip at November 01, 2025 07:44 PM (+qU29)

2 TJM does a fantastic job

And add 👍

Posted by: Skip at November 01, 2025 07:46 PM (+qU29)

3 skip, did you nood?

Posted by: TecumsehTea at November 01, 2025 07:50 PM (+4S8X)

4 "Dr. Goldfoot and the Girl-Bombs is...not good"

Now wait just a minute. There is only one reason that movie was made. Well, two. Actually, three.

Posted by: fd at November 01, 2025 07:51 PM (vFG9F)

5 I think that's the only Bava movie I've seen.

Posted by: fd at November 01, 2025 07:53 PM (vFG9F)

6 I always do, but sometimes don't put "nood" in it
But use all capitals to point it out

Posted by: Skip at November 01, 2025 07:54 PM (+qU29)

7 Just watch Where Eagles Dare for the 57th time maybe

Posted by: Skip at November 01, 2025 07:56 PM (+qU29)

8 How could you nood in the middle of thread

Thats like a hyperjump without coordinates

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 07:56 PM (bXbFr)

9 The link to TJM’s YouTube channel is not working for me.

Posted by: DoublySymmetric at November 01, 2025 07:56 PM (J+LUg)

10 Or the holdo maneuver

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 07:57 PM (bXbFr)

11 The link to TJM’s YouTube channel is not working for me.
Posted by: DoublySymmetric at November 01, 2025 07:56 PM (J+LUg)

---
Try this one:

https://www.youtube.com/@ANOTHERMovieChannel-q9l

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at November 01, 2025 07:58 PM (IBQGV)

12 Thinking about watching the sequel to Maze Runner tonight...it's that or watching Wonka, since that just hit my streaming. Or figure skating, b/c I'm a sucker for figure skating. Decisions, decisions.

Posted by: Nova Local at November 01, 2025 07:58 PM (tOcjL)

13 John phillip law he was also in barbarella vadims parallel effort no

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 07:58 PM (bXbFr)

14 9 The link to TJM’s YouTube channel is not working for me.
Posted by: DoublySymmetric at November 01, 2025 07:56 PM (J+LUg)

===

Fixed.

Smart quotes are bad.

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 07:58 PM (GBKbO)

15 Hello again, TJM!

"Is there a better microcosm of Bava overall? I don't think so. Danger: Diabolik is definitely not his best film, but it is the one that most fully defines him, I think. I'd sooner watch Planet of the Vampires, though."

Agreed. Style is a substance all its own. No better example than Ridley Scott in his prime: the dank claustrophobia of "Alien" and the anarchic squalor of L.A. in "Bladerunner" weren't just arty wallpaper, they elicited visceral reactions in the viewer.

Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at November 01, 2025 08:01 PM (kpS4V)

16 Saw Black Sunday in the theater when it was first released here -- the opening sequence just about knocked 11 or 12 yr old me outta my seat.

Have seen a few of his others over the years; they've usually been a delight to look at, but the stories tended to strike me as more than a tad slapdash if not almost incoherent. Never saw Shock, though. Will take a look at that one some time this week.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at November 01, 2025 08:01 PM (q3u5l)

17 It seems an intriguing film

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 08:02 PM (bXbFr)

18 TJM hope you have plans for another video

Posted by: Skip at November 01, 2025 08:03 PM (+qU29)

19 17 It seems an intriguing film
Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 08:02 PM (bXbFr)

====

Eh. IT is...okay.

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 08:03 PM (GBKbO)

20 YouTube has the MST3K version of "Danger: Diabolik".

Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at November 01, 2025 08:04 PM (kpS4V)

21 18 TJM hope you have plans for another video
Posted by: Skip at November 01, 2025 08:03 PM (+qU29)

===

I've been writing about movies like this for five years. I have ideas for days.

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 08:05 PM (GBKbO)

22 I saw "Queens of the Dead", about drag queens and club kids defending their bar against phone screen-obsessed zombies, in the theater. And yes, I laughed.

It was directed by George Romero's daughter Tina.

Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at November 01, 2025 08:06 PM (kpS4V)

23 I'm a Lanthamos fangirl, so tomorrow I'll go see "Bugonia".

Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at November 01, 2025 08:07 PM (kpS4V)

24 Child Bride, 1938.

Posted by: Commissar of plenty and festive little hats at November 01, 2025 08:08 PM (bBI6J)

25 "But he's not taken seriously because he worked in genre, which the critical crowd long held as impersonal and beneath serious consideration. That's changed recently (a positive change in the critical community matched by a host of negative things that far outweigh it), so....."
-----

Do you have mixed feelings about the mainstreaming of genre stories?

Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at November 01, 2025 08:11 PM (kpS4V)

26 The set up seems to be better than the actual film

Sort of like the house of dynamites that has the makings of a techno thriller but does little with it

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 08:11 PM (bXbFr)

27 I'm starting to get links to all the A24 Films that are up for nominations. Watched Spike Lee's "Highest 2 Lowest," a remake of Kurasowa's "High and Low."

Lee's movie is not very good. Shouldn't get nominated for anything but probably will.

Posted by: Lex at November 01, 2025 08:11 PM (y4H1r)

28 "Caltiki, the Immortal Monster" is pretty much considered a Bava film.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at November 01, 2025 08:12 PM (CHHv1)

29 I mean, I love listening to Tarantino wax poetic about Japanese body horror and blaxploitation and giallo, but I like oddball shit.

Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at November 01, 2025 08:13 PM (kpS4V)

30

Danger: Diabolik was the last of the original MST3K episodes.

https://t.ly/SP8mc

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 01, 2025 08:14 PM (pkeXY)

31 Damn, I feel like I should write an essay in response.
Because this was a fun ride, I couldn't watch all the movies but a surprisingly large number were on Tubi, which is convenient for me.

I think 'style over substance' is a good description. Bava had a great eye and knew how to create interesting visuals. For making 'crap' movies, they always look good at least and sometimes look VERY good (Black Sunday is the standout for me).

But he had two fatal flaws to me, both writing or character related.

First, his stories have too many characters who do not do enough or stand out enough. Most of them get killed, true, but it makes it hard to care. His best films have smaller casts, so you can focus on and care about his characters....until you don't care.
....that's the other flaw. Because Bava has this habit of creating morally dismal protagonists. Most of his main characters are terrible people: adulterers, murders, thieves, madmen. So when 'bad' things happen to these characters, I'm...kind of ok with this. TJM's favorite movie, Shock, has this problem. The twist at the end is very shocking (apropos) but it recontexualizes everything that came before....to be cont

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 08:16 PM (xcxpd)

32 I didnt know kurosawa waa the inspiration

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 08:18 PM (bXbFr)

33 25 Do you have mixed feelings about the mainstreaming of genre stories?
Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at November 01, 2025 08:11 PM (kpS4V)

====

Not really.

I have mixed feelings about the critical community's changes.

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 08:19 PM (GBKbO)

34 And of course, before High and Low was Kurosawa's source -- the 87th Precinct novel King's Ransom by Ed McBain/Evan Hunter (which I haven't read in far too long). Good stuff.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at November 01, 2025 08:20 PM (q3u5l)

35 ....seriously, I do need to do some serious writing about Bava as I'm running out of space in these comment boxes.

To conclude, Bava does a terrible job writing his characters and writes terrible people as his protagonists. More than once, I ended up being ok with the death and destruction of the protagonists because they were just as monstrous as the thing stalking or killing them.

In addition to outstanding camera work and visuals, Bava also managed to get some really good actors. Christopher Lee, Boris Karloff, and the best (or most enjoyable) Telly Sevalas. Telly plays 'the devil' in 'Lisa and the Devil' and he is magnetic. Charismatic and interesting every second he's on camera. Makes me want to go watch more Telly Sevalas movies and TV shows, frankly.

Best for me: Black Sunday, Lisa and the Devil, The Whip and the Body.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 08:20 PM (xcxpd)

36 How so, TJM?

Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at November 01, 2025 08:22 PM (kpS4V)

37 Danger: Diabolik was the last of the original MST3K episodes.

https://t.ly/SP8mc
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 01, 2025 08:14 PM (pkeXY)

It is VERY Mod

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 08:22 PM (xcxpd)

38 Odd they would pick that one as their last film

Too ambitious vs its realixation

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 08:24 PM (bXbFr)

39 38 Odd they would pick that one as their last film

Too ambitious vs its realixation
Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 08:24 PM (bXbFr)

"Is that stud coming?"

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 08:25 PM (xcxpd)

40 36 How so, TJM?
Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at November 01, 2025 08:22 PM (kpS4V

===

Genre in the 70s could be personal and mean something just like genre today.

However, the critical community today while it does appreciate genre, has no real sense of history, is actively ignorant of it, and is easily persuaded by trends instead of thinking critically.

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 08:27 PM (GBKbO)

41 37 Danger: Diabolik was the last of the original MST3K episodes.

https://t.ly/SP8mc
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 01, 2025 08:14 PM (pkeXY)

It is VERY Mod
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 08:22 PM (xcxpd)

====

If Noel Fielding went into crime instead of comedy.

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 08:27 PM (GBKbO)

42 However, the critical community today while it does appreciate genre, has no real sense of history, is actively ignorant of it, and is easily persuaded by trends instead of thinking critically.
Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 08:27 PM (GBKbO)

But enough about Red Letter Media!

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 08:28 PM (xcxpd)

43 Yes they know nothing and they are proud of that

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 08:28 PM (bXbFr)

44 I dont get the noel fielding reference

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 08:29 PM (bXbFr)

45 From, oh I don't know 1954-1964(?)

There were a lot of fun space movies that came out of both Europe and the US. Reasonably good budgets and effects.

Planet of the Vampires

Journey to the 7th Planet

Angry Red Planet

First Men in the Moon

Would be a great quadruple feature movie night.

Posted by: naturalfake at November 01, 2025 08:29 PM (iJfKG)

46 44 I dont get the noel fielding reference
Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 08:29 PM (bXbFr)

===

He's very Mod.

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 08:30 PM (GBKbO)

47 44 I dont get the noel fielding reference
Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 08:29 PM (bXbFr)

Noel, in fashion and mannerism, is very Mod as well. Like he just walked out of 1960's 'swinging London'.

He's also a mighty boosh.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 08:31 PM (xcxpd)

48 Speaking of style, I see for $10 you can buy a baseball cap at Der Wienerschnitzel reading, "It's Not a Party Until the Weiners Come Out."

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Oh yeah? Well, You're Another One! at November 01, 2025 08:31 PM (L/fGl)

49 47 He's also a mighty boosh.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 08:31 PM (xcxpd)

====

And loves to watch people bake. Greatly.

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 08:31 PM (GBKbO)

50 48 Speaking of style, I see for $10 you can buy a baseball cap at Der Wienerschnitzel reading, "It's Not a Party Until the Weiners Come Out."
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Oh yeah? Well, You're Another One! at November 01, 2025 08:31 PM (L/fGl)

lol

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 08:32 PM (xcxpd)

51 TJM is our Socrates of screenwriting, Plato of plot development and Euclid of movie structure.

Posted by: Ben Had at November 01, 2025 08:32 PM (E6fZE)

52 Style over substance. I think I saw Bladerunner get mentioned and I agree (too lazy to look if it did). It's in my top 5 favorite movies and I think it's mostly for the atmosphere it had. The music, the visuals, the whole 'feel' of the movie, I just loved it all and can watch it over and over.

Posted by: Puddleglum at work at November 01, 2025 08:34 PM (c3B7E)

53 Anyway, this Bava run was a great October surprise.
Thanks man, I had fun.
Someday I will find Knives of the Avenger on a streaming platform.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 08:35 PM (xcxpd)

54 I think Bladerunner would be in my top 10 Sci-fi movies

Posted by: Skip at November 01, 2025 08:36 PM (+qU29)

55 53 Anyway, this Bava run was a great October surprise.
Thanks man, I had fun.
Someday I will find Knives of the Avenger on a streaming platform.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 08:35 PM (xcxpd)

===
My secret is that I have no idea what I'm doing and just go in with enthusiasm.

Good luck on Tubi or Plex deciding to pick up Knives of the Avenger for pennies!

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 08:36 PM (GBKbO)

56 Ditto and i dont get the complaints about the narration its the only to get the noir atmosphere going

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 08:36 PM (bXbFr)

57 Now 2049 thats all messed up, style without substsnce

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 08:37 PM (bXbFr)

58 "Bladerunner" is in my top three; maybe top oneth.

Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at November 01, 2025 08:38 PM (kpS4V)

59 Blade Runner is also one of my favorite movies, not sure where I'd rank it but it is Quality.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 08:39 PM (xcxpd)

60 Imho

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 08:39 PM (bXbFr)

61 Never saw the sequel of Bladerunner

Posted by: Skip at November 01, 2025 08:40 PM (+qU29)

62 It could not have been adapted as written

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 08:40 PM (bXbFr)

63 It could not have been adapted as written

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at November 01, 2025 08:40 PM (bXbFr)

64 Ah, 'Danger Diabolik' or just 'Diabolik.' For nearly two decades, it was the final episode of Mystery Science Theater 3000. Alas, it was not, in my opinion, a very good one. The story was dumb and bland, and that kinda overwhelmed most of the jokes. Half the story was just a series of self-indulgent crimes by a pair of sociopaths who really should have been treated as villains. And as TheJamesMadison wrote, the other half was a bunch of vignettes by random doomed-to-fail lawmen.

There were a lot of other fun movies features on that show. Movies with faster plots, characters who were at least a little charismatic, or just more compelling stories...

Posted by: Castle Guy at November 01, 2025 08:43 PM (Lhaco)

65 Prayers but who doesn't expect more?

@Breaking911 4m
BREAKING: Stabbing at Huntingdon train station in England leaves at least 10 injured, 9 critically, Sky News reports.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 01, 2025 08:45 PM (mlg/3)

66 34...I really want to read that novel.

Posted by: Lex at November 01, 2025 08:46 PM (y4H1r)

67 Castle Huy, some of my favorite MST3K episodes were the Russian fantasy/folk tale movies, by turns ridiculously silly and lushly gorgeous.

Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at November 01, 2025 08:47 PM (kpS4V)

68 35 To conclude, Bava does a terrible job writing his characters and writes terrible people as his protagonists. More than once, I ended up being ok with the death and destruction of the protagonists because they were just as monstrous as the thing stalking or killing them.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 08:20 PM

That's a pretty good summation of why I didn't enjoy Diabolik, even as an episode of MST3K. I hated the main character, but there was never any reasonable doubt that he would come out on top. The commentary tried to joke about how evil and selfish he was, but they didn't go nearly as all-out as they did against other protagonists, nor as much as Diabolik deserved.

Posted by: Castle Guy at November 01, 2025 08:48 PM (Lhaco)

69 Hmm, drones with Liberators... Hmm...

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 01, 2025 08:48 PM (mlg/3)

70 Mrs. Cop and I watched one of the old Nero Wolfe tv shows from 1981 that starred Robert Conrad as Wolfe. Obviously, the production was limited by a fairly low budget, but I thought that they had done a pretty good job overall. Conrad's Wolfe came across as more sardonic compared to Maury Chaykin's blustery Wolfe.

A nice little touch at the conclusion of "Wolfe at the Door" was when Theodore ignores Wolfe's signal to NOT give an orchid as a gift, and Conrad gives a look of pain when Theodore clips the stem of the flower. It was a very amusing scene that showed an affection for the characters.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at November 01, 2025 08:49 PM (pJWtt)

71 Never saw the sequel of Bladerunner
Posted by: Skip


There wasn't a need for a sequel. Some licensor published a sequel in the late 90's. It was crap. Post-modern revisions always turn to tears in the rain.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 01, 2025 08:50 PM (mlg/3)

72 Mine too, Eris. The Day The Earth Froze is in my top 5.

Posted by: fd at November 01, 2025 08:51 PM (vFG9F)

73 Thx TJM.
Can't say as I know much about Bava, but that lady in Diabolik is Marissa Mell. She was way hot.

Posted by: Smell the Glove at November 01, 2025 08:53 PM (8vl0d)

74 Blade Runner is also one of my favorite movies, not sure where I'd rank it but it is Quality.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 08:39 PM (xcxpd)


I saw it 1st run in the movie theater. It was an innovative film. They did a good job of evoking the atmosphere of a 1940s film noir set in the future.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at November 01, 2025 08:53 PM (pJWtt)

75 Never saw the sequel of Bladerunner
Posted by: Skip



It was underwhelming. I didn't hate it, just it was meh.

Posted by: Puddleglum at work at November 01, 2025 08:54 PM (c3B7E)

76 I even went and read the Kalevala after watching that movie.

Posted by: fd at November 01, 2025 08:55 PM (vFG9F)

77 73 Thx TJM.
Can't say as I know much about Bava, but that lady in Diabolik is Marissa Mell. She was way hot.
Posted by: Smell the Glove at November 01, 2025 08:53 PM (8vl0d

===

I knew almost nothing about him when I started. I owned Kill Baby Kill, randomly, but that was about it.

I was genuinely pleasantly surprised at what I found. He wasn't a great overall artist. But he was a quality talent worth attention.

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 08:55 PM (GBKbO)

78 @Breaking911 4m
BREAKING: Stabbing at Huntingdon train station in England leaves at least 10 injured, 9 critically, Sky News reports.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 01, 2025 08:45 PM (mlg/3)

Those darn Anglicans!

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at November 01, 2025 08:56 PM (yEo1J)

79 I've never seen a Bava movie.

If/when I get around to it, I'll catch I Vampiri (a subject matter I'm at least likely to enjoy).

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at November 01, 2025 08:59 PM (yEo1J)

80 67 Castle Huy, some of my favorite MST3K episodes were the Russian fantasy/folk tale movies, by turns ridiculously silly and lushly gorgeous.
Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at November 01, 2025 08:47 PM (kpS4V)

I. Love. Those. Episodes! Jack Frost is easily the best. (Though I may be biased, the Sci-Fi seasons were the only ones I watched as they aired) Just pure insanity... The Sword and the Dragon is also fun, for the sheer bombasticness of it. The Day the Earth Froze and The Magic Voyage of Sinbad (not really Sinbad) were both good, but the jokes in Joel episodes were usually bit more restrained than I would have preferred.

I double-dipped and bought Father Frost (a less-edited version of Jack Frost) on RiffTrax. It's just as good. I'm kinda disappointed that RiffTrax hasn't found any more Russo-Finish co-productions. That's an untapped gold mine...

Posted by: Castle Guy at November 01, 2025 09:00 PM (Lhaco)

81 Blade Runner !! yeah, top 5 for me as well. With Seven Samurai.

Posted by: runner at November 01, 2025 09:04 PM (g47mK)

82 -- > critics have suggested that Bava's film was a major influence on Ridley Scott's Alien (1979)... and Prometheus

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at November 01, 2025 09:05 PM (WAasH)

83 I am not familiar with Bavo's work, was he big in Hollywood ?

Posted by: runner at November 01, 2025 09:05 PM (g47mK)

84 83 I am not familiar with Bavo's work, was he big in Hollywood ?
Posted by: runner at November 01, 2025 09:05 PM

===

He was world famous in Poland Italy.

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 09:06 PM (GBKbO)

85 He was world famous in Poland Italy.
Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 09:06 PM (GBKbO)



Yeah, difficult. Did he have a "siren" , a "muse" ??

Posted by: runner at November 01, 2025 09:07 PM (g47mK)

86 85 He was world famous in Poland Italy.
Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 09:06 PM (GBKbO)



Yeah, difficult. Did he have a "siren" , a "muse" ??
Posted by: runner at November 01, 2025 09:07 PM (g47mK

===

No actress across the body of work. He was really a director for hire, but with a surprising sense of style, in Italy, of course.

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 09:09 PM (GBKbO)

87 How can we understand
Riots by the people for the people
Who are only destroying themselves
And when you see a frightened
Person who is frightened by the
People who are scorching this earth.

Posted by: SMOD at November 01, 2025 09:10 PM (GITLP)

88 So. Usually lurking here....
I've been on a quest to find the mostest horrible 70s movies. No matter how bad I think I found one, there's always one worse.
Tonight - Gargoyles 1972. I almost couldn't make it through, but being a masochist, I had to watch til the end.
OMG! That was bad🤑...

Posted by: COMountainMarie at November 01, 2025 09:13 PM (mAdag)

89 75 Never saw the sequel of Bladerunner
Posted by: Skip

It was underwhelming. I didn't hate it, just it was meh.
Posted by: Puddleglum at work at November 01, 2025 08:54 PM (c3B7E)

Bladerunner and its sequel remind me of TJM’s review of Wreck it Ralph in the sidebar. The 2nd movie completely forgot (or never understood) all the important things that made the first movie great.
It was very showy with a stupid and boring plot, and flat characters.

Posted by: Tom Servo at November 01, 2025 09:15 PM (bI6eY)

90 Hobgoblins.

Worst 80s movie ever. Even the MST sendup was painful.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, Antisocial Media Influencer at November 01, 2025 09:16 PM (0aYVJ)

91 Lots of bad movies out. Does not help that actors open their stupid mouths and share their retarded politics with the world. I mean , really ! You all are replaceable ! I do have sympathy for the old studio system, these acting idiots knew their place...

Posted by: runner at November 01, 2025 09:16 PM (g47mK)

92 The only version of Blade Runner I've seen is the one without Harrison Ford's bored-out-of-his mind voice-over.

I'm glad I did that.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, Antisocial Media Influencer at November 01, 2025 09:19 PM (0aYVJ)

93 Watching "Infinity War." Marvel movies used to be so good.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at November 01, 2025 09:20 PM (CHHv1)

94 It is past bed time but we are supposed to get a extra hour to make up for it.
I wish it was the last time playing with the clocks
Have a good night everyone

Posted by: Skip at November 01, 2025 09:21 PM (+qU29)

95 93 Watching "Infinity War." Marvel movies used to be so good.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at November 01, 2025 09:20 PM (CHHv1

That is peak Marvel. And the drop off after Infinity War is steep and stark.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 09:22 PM (xcxpd)

96 80s and a bit of the 90s were the Golden Age of American Cinema! Fight me !

Posted by: runner at November 01, 2025 09:23 PM (g47mK)

97 Yesterday I treated myself to the original Halloween, The Legend of Hell House, and Island of Lost Souls. All of them still hold up quite nicely.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at November 01, 2025 09:23 PM (q3u5l)

98
Hobgoblins.

Worst 80s movie ever. Even the MST sendup was painful.
Posted by: Pug Mahon


Agree. Absolutely awful.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 01, 2025 09:27 PM (pkeXY)

99
Island of Lost Souls.

Are we not men?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 01, 2025 09:27 PM (pkeXY)

100 Island of Lost Souls.

Are we not men?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 01, 2025 09:27 PM (pkeXY)

We are Devo

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 01, 2025 09:28 PM (xcxpd)

101 TJM, did you ever see Jeanne Dielman? aka Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles " ? cult klassic !

Posted by: runner at November 01, 2025 09:30 PM (g47mK)

102 It's and art film !

Posted by: runner at November 01, 2025 09:31 PM (g47mK)

103 93 Watching "Infinity War." Marvel movies used to be so good.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at November 01, 2025 09:20 PM (CHHv1)

"Infinity War" was the climax of the series. I thought "End Game" was a major letdown.

Looking back, one of the crazier things about pre-End-Game-Marvel was how the fans were genuinely enthusiastic for the franchise. There wasn't a cottage industry on YouTube dedicated to laughing at its failures, there was a genuine grass-roots movement to praise it. Just type in 'One Marvelous Scene' on the YouTube prompt and you will have literally hundreds of individual video-essayists breaking down the greatness of their favorite scenes. ...That trend died hard...

Posted by: Castle Guy at November 01, 2025 09:31 PM (Lhaco)

104 Last week I watched the French movie "Danton" starring lumpy leading man Gerard Depardieu. The real star is the Polish actor who portrayed icy revolutionary Robespierre, for whom everything must be sacrificed to the State, because the State is the People! Even popular heroes of the revolution are caught up in the escalating leftward lurch toward tyranny.

Danton's fiery speech before the Committee was the highlight of the film:

Danton: Another fault: being popular and strong, when only anonymity and cunning guarantee one a long life. If you desire a long life, you must not be loved. That's one of our new laws, all the more powerful for being unwritten. Woe to strong men loved by the people!

The French Commies must have hated this movie.

Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at November 01, 2025 09:31 PM (kpS4V)

105 TJM put a link toward the bottom of his post for his YT channel. You should subscribe to it, and if any of his competitors live near you, you should put their homes to the torch.

Thus ends this PSA.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 01, 2025 09:32 PM (BI5O2)

106 101 TJM, did you ever see Jeanne Dielman? aka Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles " ? cult klassic !
Posted by: runner at November 01, 2025 09:30 PM (g47mK)

===

The greatest film ever made?

Nope, I've never caught it.

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 09:32 PM (GBKbO)

107 105 TJM put a link toward the bottom of his post for his YT channel. You should subscribe to it, and if any of his competitors live near you, you should put their homes to the torch.

Thus ends this PSA.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 01, 2025 09:32 PM (

====

*tears up at YD's effusive sparing of my own house*

It's the nicest thing you've ever said about me...

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 09:34 PM (GBKbO)

108 Depardieu took a shot as Maigret in a French flick from a year or two ago, and starred in an adaptation of one of Simenon's non-series novels, The Green Shutters. Anyone heard anything about the latter being available streaming or on disc with English subtitles?

Posted by: Just Some Guy at November 01, 2025 09:37 PM (q3u5l)

109 The greatest film ever made?

Nope, I've never caught it.
Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 09:32 PM (GBKbO)



Well, "Slow Cinema", and you'll need over 3 hours. It made an impression, though.

Posted by: runner at November 01, 2025 09:37 PM (g47mK)

110 I mean, you liked The Mirror, right ?

Posted by: runner at November 01, 2025 09:39 PM (g47mK)

111 109 The greatest film ever made?

Nope, I've never caught it.
Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 09:32 PM (GBKbO)



Well, "Slow Cinema", and you'll need over 3 hours. It made an impression, though.
Posted by: runner at November 01, 2025 09:37 PM (g47mK

====

I imagine its far from worthless, but the background on it winning th3 Sight and Sound poll is interesting.

That film became the cause celebre of one English female film professor, and her students flooded the voting.

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 09:42 PM (GBKbO)

112 110 I mean, you liked The Mirror, right ?
Posted by: runner at November 01, 2025 09:39 PM (g47mK)

====

I am a Tarkovsky fanboi, yes.

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 09:42 PM (GBKbO)

113
I'm a Lanthamos fangirl, so tomorrow I'll go see "Bugonia".
Posted by: All Hail Eris

===============

I saw it last night. I have one big-ish objection to the story, which I can't state without spoiling it, but I will say the acting and the dialog are amazing.

Keep your eye out for Teddy's mom. I didn't realize until after the movie was over it's Alicia Silverstone, of Clueless fame!

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at November 01, 2025 09:45 PM (xJGPn)

114 104
'The French Commies must have hated this movie.'

Commies hate everything, including themselves.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at November 01, 2025 09:48 PM (fd80v)

115 114 104
'The French Commies must have hated this movie.'

Commies hate everything, including themselves.
Posted by: Dr. Claw at November 01, 2025 09:48 PM (fd80v

===

Danton was greenlit when Robespierre love was at a low in France and then released when Robespierre love was at a high.

It was weirdly received.

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 09:50 PM (GBKbO)

116 Over at GP there is a post about a report showing that Hollywood had their worst month, 10/25, in over 25 years (except COVID). They've run out of ideas and are falling to other media forms, like the propaganda ministries are collapsing due to other sources

Posted by: Smell the Glove at November 01, 2025 09:51 PM (8vl0d)

117 116 Over at GP there is a post about a report showing that Hollywood had their worst month, 10/25, in over 25 years (except COVID). They've run out of ideas and are falling to other media forms, like the propaganda ministries are collapsing due to other sources
Posted by: Smell the Glove at November 01, 2025 09:51 PM (8vl0d)

===

It's a good thing i wrote about an Italian who never worked in Hollywood and died in 1980, huh?

Posted by: TJM's phone at November 01, 2025 09:54 PM (GBKbO)

118 Greatest film ever? At 3 hours and 22 minutes according to IMDB? Pass.

Think I've occasionally mentioned a comment William Goldman attributed to George Roy Hill: "If you can't tell your story in an hour and 40 minutes, you'd better be David Lean." I can think of a number of flicks that deserve an exemption from that standard, but from the description, this just doesn't sound like one of 'em.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at November 01, 2025 09:54 PM (q3u5l)

119 I usually know nothing whatever about the movies and directors featured in this column, but I enjoy reading it very, very much.

Thank you for doing this.

Posted by: Galt at November 01, 2025 09:54 PM (kNftX)

120 I usually know nothing whatever about the movies and directors featured in this column, but I enjoy reading it very, very much.

Thank you for doing this.
Posted by: Galt
----------
Same. Thanks, TJM.

Posted by: scampydog at November 01, 2025 09:56 PM (YPm7m)

121 Off to check out Bava's Shock (and maybe another one or two).

Thanks for the thread, TJM.

Have a good one, gang.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at November 01, 2025 09:56 PM (q3u5l)

122 115
'Danton was greenlit when Robespierre love was at a low in France and then released when Robespierre love was at a high.'

I can't imagine how an entire public can be so volatile.
Oh wait. Yes, I can.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at November 01, 2025 09:58 PM (fd80v)

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