Wednesday Morning Rant

The Road is Long

When a government steps onto the road to expropriation of property, it is often a long journey. While the grand, fast expropriations of communism in various forms are certainly real, this method is not preferred by those who wish to boil the frog. A long, slow erosion of property rights and the gradual muscling out of former owners in favor of the state or state-connected cronies is much preferred.

Property taxes and regulation are the obvious examples of this. Just keep pushing on the tax rate. Impose new taxes. Drive taxes inexorably higher every year, until the owners cry uncle and sell. Who gets the property in the sale? People who can afford those high taxes - or who have friends in government who can get them abatements. The former owners get to become renters. If the taxes don't do it, the regulations may. Pass as many rules as possible. Restrict how people use property. If you're truly skilled like California is, make insurance impossible, too. Drive down utility and drive up liabilities until the appeal of ownership vanishes. Sell it off, and get out of the way of the state and her cronies.

I saw two examples of this kind of progression recently, one more subtle than other. The subtle example is old (though new to me) and comes from California. In 2014 and in the midst of a drought, California passed the "Sustainable Groundwater Management Act" (SGMA), which reclassified water rights. Water rights stopped being a thing as such, with groundwater recast as a "shared resource":

The law asserts that groundwater is a shared resource. While it upholds a farmer's right to pump, it imposes rules on its use. For the first time in California history, managers of the state's 140 most overdrawn groundwater basins must balance the amount of water being pumped from, and recharged into, aquifers by 2040. It allows increased pumping during drought only if no major problems result.

With old water rights (or at least standards and practices governing use) gone and water now community property by law, then came the metering of once-private - and still privately-maintained - wells. Then in 2021, as predictable as the sun rising in the east, came the billing:

Growers are billed $246 an acre-foot, the equivalent of an acre of water one foot deep. In four years, (that's this year, and how I learned about it. -ed) fees will jump to $346. Those who allow their property to be flooded with stormwater, helping replenish the aquifer, can earn rebates. The agency also offers inducements, such as efficiency gadgets and incentives to fallow land.
A handful of farms have refused access; their bills are estimated, with stiff penalties added.

Of course. Compliance and the stiff penalties are the point. That and driving agriculture out of business, of course. And fees, as always, continue to rise.

I am originally from Colorado and understand the perils of not enough water. Water can indeed be a "shared resource" and water rights are therefore a ruthless and cutthroat battleground - sometimes literally. The laws are often arcane and puzzling it out can be extremely difficult. But not even Colorado went so far as to just declare that water rights don't exist. It isn't as far along the road as its colonial master is.

Another is so-called "ghost taxes." What is a ghost tax? Also called a "vacant home tax," a ghost tax is an explicit attempt to force owners to sell by making taxes onerous:

These kinds of taxes or fees are imposed on landlords whose properties are vacant and not rented for an extended period of time- typically about six months.
They are used as a tool in a handful of American cities and Canada to encourage property owners to rent or sell their homes and thereby increase the stock of affordable housing.

This article is about Denver, but they aren't the only ones pursuing it. San Francisco tried a version of it (deemed unconstitutional), Oakland and Washington DC have versions of it, Honolulu is also floating the idea, and various foreign cities have equivalents.

In explaining the vacant home fee proposal, Alderman said, "We want to encourage landlords to lower their rents on units that are sitting vacant while people are living outside. Is there a way to incentivize that lowering of rent so the working-class folks and the people experiencing homelessness in Denver have a chance to get into a rental unit? I think vacancy fees might be a way to think about that," said Alderman. "This is one potential option of many that we think is worth exploring."

"I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the housing community, when they have empty units for long periods of time, to consider making those units available to lower-income households," said Alderman.

You're not proposing to "ask." You're proposing to compel by means of extortion. Call it what it is, Ms. Communist. Even if we assume that landlords holding out on price cause street-level vagrancy (they don't), this wouldn't do a thing to fix it. Even in the ideal scenario where rents are all slashed immediately and vacancy falls to zero, it would do nothing to reduce vagrancy. But that won't happen, and it isn't supposed to. That isn't the point. This has nothing to do with vacancy rates and everything to do with extracting cash and forcing sales - sales to those who meet with Ms. Communist's approval.

Waving away water rights, assessing "ghost taxes," driving up liabilities and countless other approaches are all steps down the road of expropriation. The rubes can't be having property. That's only for the politically connected.

Posted by: Joe Mannix at 11:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Good morning good people.

Posted by: Tonypete at September 10, 2025 11:00 AM (cYBz/)

2 Goat taxes?

Posted by: Commissar of plenty and festive little hats at September 10, 2025 11:01 AM (tsszd)

3 Not 1st.

Posted by: Bulg at September 10, 2025 11:03 AM (77rzZ)

4 Why not the best?

Charlotte Mayor Scores Primary Re-Election Victory Amid National Backlash Over Gruesome Train Murder

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Dinosaur Wrangler at September 10, 2025 11:04 AM (L/fGl)

5 That could be my armed response trigger. That’s would be like confiscating my 401k.

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:04 AM (EYmYM)

6 Property taxes never go down. Just like insurance premiums.

Posted by: Maj. Healey at September 10, 2025 11:04 AM (abIsI)

7 High property taxes are painful, but they do help keep out the riffraff.

Posted by: Oglebay at September 10, 2025 11:05 AM (MMp6W)

8 Top 10?!?

Posted by: Grayman27 at September 10, 2025 11:05 AM (pgwxJ)

9 Heh.

Posted by: Grayman27 at September 10, 2025 11:05 AM (pgwxJ)

10 One of the "benefits" of Bidenflation from the left's perspective is that it forced people into higher tax brackets *if* their incomes keep pace with inflation.

While I would prefer Trump move forward with abolishing income taxes, the brackets should be doubled to reflect the real reduction in dollar values

Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:06 AM (sKqQm)

11 Don't get VDH going on the subject of water rights et al.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea at September 10, 2025 11:06 AM (WvZaB)

12 There should be an even bigger backlash regard to Monday’s murder of the elderly couple in Queens on Monday. But there’s no video of it but it was even more gruesome per the description.

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:06 AM (EYmYM)

13 While I would prefer Trump move forward with abolishing income taxes
-----------
Sadly, it's constitutional amendment.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea at September 10, 2025 11:07 AM (WvZaB)

14 California could have all the water it wants if it was willing to desalinate the OCEAN it has west of it.
But plankton.

Posted by: gKWVE at September 10, 2025 11:07 AM (gKWVE)

15 While I would prefer Trump move forward with abolishing income taxes
-----------
Sadly, it's constitutional amendment.

Shutter the IRS and make filing taxes truly voluntary.

Then issue a pardon for everyone in the country on your last day in office.

Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:08 AM (sKqQm)

16 USAID has taught me a couple things. I see no reason why CAAID or COAID don't exist already. Media strangly quiet on the subject.

Posted by: Sports Illustrated PR team at September 10, 2025 11:08 AM (s9EN2)

17 The rubes can't be having property.
==
In the future, you will own nothing, and be happy.

Posted by: WEF at September 10, 2025 11:08 AM (9k8+1)

18 California could have all the water it wants if it was willing to desalinate the OCEAN it has west of it.
-----------
The money ~~spent~~ wasted on high speed rail would have done the trick.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea at September 10, 2025 11:09 AM (WvZaB)

19 The development of property rights under English law is a bedrock of liberty. Our revolution was conservative, looking to preserve those rights.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at September 10, 2025 11:09 AM (XvL8K)

20 Texas needs to get off it's ass and build more desalination plants. The money for one has already been approved but nothing is happening in the building phase. Citrus growers in South Texas should not be faced with water shortages.

Posted by: Ben Had at September 10, 2025 11:09 AM (mFSH6)

21 Also, Ca is tearing down dams. Dams that hold water.

Posted by: Sports Illustrated PR team at September 10, 2025 11:09 AM (s9EN2)

22 Shutter the IRS and make filing taxes truly voluntary.
----------
Wouldn't be permanent. Could be undone by anyone willing to do so.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea at September 10, 2025 11:10 AM (WvZaB)

23
Sadly, it's constitutional amendment.
Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea at September 10, 2025 11:07 AM (WvZaB)

__________

Is it? The federal government can impose income taxes but does not have to.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 10, 2025 11:10 AM (kkTda)

24 Property is still a sound investment. Of course there are a lot of factors that should be considered.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at September 10, 2025 11:10 AM (Q4IgG)

25 Wouldn't be permanent. Could be undone by anyone willing to do so.

Hence the second part - pardon for every person in the country for taxes.

Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:11 AM (sKqQm)

26 The federal government does not need to tax the citizenry because the FRB exists. The income tax is to control the people and punish enemies.

Posted by: Oglebay at September 10, 2025 11:11 AM (MMp6W)

27 13 While I would prefer Trump move forward with abolishing income taxes
-----------
Sadly, it's constitutional amendment.
Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea

I'd be fine it we could get it down to the original 1% rate until a new amendment is passed.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at September 10, 2025 11:11 AM (Dv3i1)

28 Not that it's any surprise, but the Dem candidate won the special election to replace Gerry Connally. Dude sets off my gaydar big time.

Posted by: Bulg at September 10, 2025 11:11 AM (77rzZ)

29 Rain barrels (collecting rainwater) is actually illegal in some Western states. Colorado is one. The rainwater is already spoken for.

So we have jurisdictions that will tax the rain that falls on your property. But it still isn’t yours to use. I had a wooden rain-barrel on the side of my house. For some reason Goolag Erf blurred that out, and only that. Kinda wacky.

There was never a halcyon time where property tax was never a thing. Some states had different title procedures. I think Nevada had “Alloidal” titles, and you could pay a one time property tax and be done with it. Not any longer, though, I’m sure.

Posted by: Common Tater at September 10, 2025 11:11 AM (gptA6)

30 Property taxes never go down. Just like insurance premiums.
Posted by: Maj. Healey at September 10, 2025 11:04 AM (abIsI)

Insurance premiums mostly based on location and rebuild value of your home. Property taxes can also go down when you become a senior and when rates are cut.

But you’re right the trend is for them to increase as the value of your property increases.

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:11 AM (EYmYM)

31 Is it? The federal government can impose income taxes but does not have to.
Posted by: Hadrian the
==
now hold on just a second

Posted by: Chief Justice Roberts at September 10, 2025 11:11 AM (9k8+1)

32 Is it? The federal government can impose income taxes but does not have to.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 10, 2025 11:10 AM (kkTda)
------------
16th.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea at September 10, 2025 11:12 AM (WvZaB)

33 If these pols think running a residential rental business is that easy, they can exercise their eminent domain power, pay for the property, and turn it over for cheap or free to tenants with no inclination or means to preserve it.

And once they have bankrupted their communities in so doing, perhaps voters will elect rational actors.

Posted by: MarkW at September 10, 2025 11:12 AM (aC4DT)

34 Desalination was promoted in both party's platforms back in the 1950s and 1960s (you know, when Democrats genuinely tried to appeal to the whole country). There's no reason it shouldn't be cost-effective and widely used by now in coastal states with water issues.

Posted by: The Lower Depths at September 10, 2025 11:12 AM (Dg7ng)

35
Property is still a sound investment. Of course there are a lot of factors that should be considered.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at September 10, 2025 11:10 AM (Q4IgG)

________

Buy land. They've stopped making it.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 10, 2025 11:13 AM (kkTda)

36 Hey this is happening in Texas as well. In the Houston-Galveston Subsidence District they are requiring meters on more and more water wells. Every new well requires a meter. They have really gone after commercial properties to require meters be retrofitted to wells that have been in place for years. Residences can't be far behind.

Posted by: DanMan at September 10, 2025 11:13 AM (8uzBS)

37 Property taxes can also go down when you become a senior and when rates are cut.
------------
City of Portland: Ha ha ha ha ha.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea at September 10, 2025 11:13 AM (WvZaB)

38 The first income tax rates after the 16th was “passed” started at 2% on income equal to $500,000 in today’s confetti bucks.

That seems about right

Posted by: Common Tater at September 10, 2025 11:13 AM (gptA6)

39 "I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the housing community, when they have empty units for long periods of time, to consider making those units available to lower-income households," said Alderman.

Know what landlords don't want? Irresposible tenants destroying their property. A former neighbor of mine decided to rent to a "lower-income household." They moved after a year and the landlord spent the equivalent of the year's rent is restoration.

Posted by: Halfhand at September 10, 2025 11:13 AM (7PyqX)

40 The left will never give up on "You will own nothing and we will be happy."

Posted by: NR Pax at September 10, 2025 11:14 AM (BpO1e)

41 ‘This article is about Denver, but they aren't the only ones pursuing it. San Francisco tried a version of it (deemed unconstitutional), Oakland and Washington DC have versions of it, Honolulu is also floating the idea‘

I’m glad I don’t live in any of these shitty democrat areas.
God bless those of you that do.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at September 10, 2025 11:14 AM (jbnUc)

42 "I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the housing community, when they have empty units for long periods of time, to consider making those units available to lower-income households," said Alderman.

Hey I remember when they covered this in Doctor Zhivago

Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:14 AM (sKqQm)

43
perhaps voters will elect rational actors.
Posted by: MarkW at September 10, 2025 11:12 AM (aC4DT)

________

*TWEET!*
*throws penalty flag*

Assumes rational voters.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 10, 2025 11:14 AM (kkTda)

44 35 Buy land. They've stopped making it.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 10, 2025 11:13 AM (kkTda)

======

1. Otisburg?!

2. Superman Returns proved that new land can still be made!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:14 AM (GBKbO)

45 And tearing down dams in CA so save the fish and Native Americans. My Sister has a vacation house on a small lake here in NorCal and Newsom is taking it down.. Trouble is folks downstream ,over 600 thousand, rely on that water...Of course her cabin is gonna be worth nothing with no lake and there is also a housing tract there.... I told her why not have your association make a plea to Trump... She actually despised Trump by the way.. Long story short they did and the Dept. of Agriculture says they will not allow the dams in CA. to be removed.... Hopefully that comes to pass..... My sister still hates Trump

Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:14 AM (VE6XX)

46 Do you know what does go down? Inflation. Again.

We need new experts. The current group sucks.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 10, 2025 11:15 AM (viF8m)

47 Property taxes are another disgusting offense - spend your life paying off a mortgage and then lose your house if you lose your job and can't pay government taxes...

Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:15 AM (sKqQm)

48 "I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the housing community, when they have empty units for long periods of time, to consider making those units available to lower-income households," said Alderman."

This is a scam but not in the way most people will think. These commie scabs have no interest in encouraging renting to low-income illegal scumbags who will cause more problems and damage to the properties than they pay. The commies want to collect the tax.

Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025 11:15 AM (iFTx/)

49 One can hope for a Nepalese response at some point.

Posted by: mr tmz at September 10, 2025 11:16 AM (rJ48h)

50 I'd be fine it we could get it down to the original 1% rate until a new amendment is passed.
Posted by: Chuck Martel at September 10, 2025 11:11 AM (Dv3i1)
-------------
That didn't last long (promises, promises!) By the end of WW I (less than a decade after passing), top marginal rate was 75%.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea at September 10, 2025 11:16 AM (WvZaB)

51 Technically the earth occasionally makes new land...who wants to live on a brand new volcanic island

Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:16 AM (sKqQm)

52 >>> Why not the best?
Charlotte Mayor Scores Primary Re-Election Victory Amid National Backlash Over Gruesome Train Murder

The bigger story is that they hid the train stabbing FOR TWO WEEKS, so that she COULD get her primary reelection! The only reason we are talking about it now is the actual footage leaked. Had that footage leaked two weeks ago, she might not have gotten reelected.

They hid a girl's death for political expedience. Ghouls.

A smart liberal would read the mood in the room, and run as an independent against her, but be hugely anti crime. They might do well.

Posted by: LizLem at September 10, 2025 11:16 AM (gWBY1)

53 I just increased my tax rate by 1.4% by moving out of Houston. Freaking mud tax (to finance new sewer and water facilities )

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:16 AM (EYmYM)

54 perhaps voters will elect rational actors.
Posted by: MarkW at September 10, 2025 11:12 AM (aC4DT)

________

*TWEET!*
*throws penalty flag*

Assumes rational voters.

I’m letting “perhaps” do all the heavy lifting…

Posted by: MarkW at September 10, 2025 11:16 AM (aC4DT)

55 One thing that could help in some small way:

Making it illegal to require new owners of a house to join the HOA.

They can opt in, but the assumption is that the new owners did not agree to the creation of the HOA, they own the land that they have purchased, not the HOA, and the HOA cannot impose on the new owners of the house because the HOA does not actually own the house or the land it's on.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:17 AM (GBKbO)

56
Of course her cabin is gonna be worth nothing with no lake and there is also a housing tract there.

_________

"All kinds of trouble when you take out a dam." - South Fork Hunting and Fishing Club

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 10, 2025 11:17 AM (kkTda)

57 ‘ Charlotte Mayor Scores Primary Re-Election Victory Amid National Backlash Over Gruesome Train Murder’

So many of these blue cities are mayored by one of these corrupt, incompetent mammies of color.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at September 10, 2025 11:17 AM (jbnUc)

58 I notice the people complaining about empty second houses are NOT complaining about the millions of new legal and illegal immigrants competing for housing with the citizens...

Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:17 AM (sKqQm)

59

Why wouldn't the property/water rights change be a 'taking ' and subject to federal law?

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 10, 2025 11:17 AM (EeepC)

60 Technically the earth occasionally makes new land...who wants to live on a brand new volcanic island
Posted by: 18-1

There's a whole province of the Netherlands consisting of land reclaimed from the sea.

Posted by: Bulg at September 10, 2025 11:17 AM (77rzZ)

61 City of Portland: Ha ha ha ha ha.

Half of the Portland city council is socialist, and it is evident that one of their goals is to make the rental housing stock completely government-controlled.

They want more "affordable housing", but building it is too expansive, so they are simply buying private apartment buildings in Portland and turning them over to "non-profits" to manage.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at September 10, 2025 11:17 AM (xTIDn)

62 13 While I would prefer Trump move forward with abolishing income taxes
-----------
Sadly, it's constitutional amendment.
Posted by: Captain Obvious
=======
The amendment does not mandate Congress pass such a tax, it simply allows them to do so. So, like the NFA, Congress can at any time decide to pass a new law getting rid of the income tax or the NFA. All it needs then is a president willing to sign the legislation or let it go into law without his signature.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 11:17 AM (WDjG6)

63 57 ‘ Charlotte Mayor Scores Primary Re-Election Victory Amid National Backlash Over Gruesome Train Murder’

So many of these blue cities are mayored by one of these corrupt, incompetent mammies of color.
Posted by: Dr. Claw at September 10, 2025 11:17 AM (jbnUc)

======

She won with 70% instead of 85% like two years ago.

She'll probably win the general (she won it 2 years ago with 75%), but it's obvious there was some kind of effect.

Just, you know, incumbency, odd election day, and blind partisanship are hard to overcome.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:18 AM (GBKbO)

64
Property taxes are another disgusting offense - spend your life paying off a mortgage and then lose your house if you lose your job and can't pay government taxes...
Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:15 AM (sKqQm)

___________

The bank, at least, will try to work with you.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 10, 2025 11:18 AM (kkTda)

65 We do not have any rainwater restrictions here in KY that I'm aware of. There are plenty of small farms that use rain barrels for livestock or greenhouses. We've toyed with the idea, but TBH the effort to collect it for garden use isn't really worth the effort. Forget about human consumption.

Now... if circumstances change I'd reconsider. But not now. It's a cute, off-grid or mega-prepper thing if there's no other solution.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at September 10, 2025 11:19 AM (Q4IgG)

66 My sister still hates Trump

Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:14 AM (VE6XX)

Mind boggling. Does she at least hate Newsome too?

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:19 AM (EYmYM)

67 >>> 40 The left will never give up on "You will own nothing and we will be happy."

Agreed, totally, on the hidden subtext behind "You will own nothing and you will be happy":

"WE will own everything, and we will be happier."

Posted by: LizLem at September 10, 2025 11:20 AM (gWBY1)

68 They want more "affordable housing", but building it is too expansive, so they are simply buying private apartment buildings in Portland and turning them over to "non-profits" to manage.
==
Guess who is running the "non profits".

Posted by: Corruption so efficient and multilayered its almost inspirational at September 10, 2025 11:20 AM (9k8+1)

69 48. This is a scam but not in the way most people will think. These commie scabs have no interest in encouraging renting to low-income illegal scumbags who will cause more problems and damage to the properties than they pay. The commies want to collect the tax.
Posted by: Elric The Blade
---
This ^^

Posted by: L - No nic, another fine day at September 10, 2025 11:20 AM (NFX2v)

70
Mind boggling. Does she at least hate Newsome too?
Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:19 AM (EYmYM)

Nope

Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:20 AM (VE6XX)

71 The bank, at least, will try to work with you.

A town near me had a budget crunch when the state stopped giving them "emergency COVID funds". They had used the temporary funds to hire a bunch of permanent bureaucrats.

So the town proposed a 25% increase in property taxes. Many residents noted they could not pay that kind of money and the answer from our empathetic leftists? If you can't pay the tax SELL AND MOVE.

Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:20 AM (sKqQm)

72 Desalination was promoted in both party's platforms back in the 1950s and 1960s (you know, when Democrats genuinely tried to appeal to the whole country). There's no reason it shouldn't be cost-effective and widely used by now in coastal states with water issues.

I more or less understand the technology, but know very little about the economics of desalination, so I'd want to see the numbers before I said it's a suitable alternative to rain. If, as I assume, it's more expensive than rain, you could allow people to buy it to supplement their current inadequate allocation.

After all the governmentally-sponsored fiascos and outright lies about system costs, I no longer trust them to tell me the truth.

Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 11:20 AM (Riz8t)

73 perhaps voters will elect rational actors.
Posted by: MarkW at September 10, 2025 11:12 AM (aC4DT)

________

*TWEET!*
*throws penalty flag*

Assumes rational voters.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 10, 2025 11:14 AM (kkTda)
***

Second flag!
Assumes the assholes in charge will.permit free and fair elections.

Posted by: Diogenes at September 10, 2025 11:20 AM (2WIwB)

74 Many chicks can’t grok logic or cause & effect.

Posted by: Common Tater at September 10, 2025 11:21 AM (gptA6)

75 55 TJM this is one of those situations where common law causes problems (imo there are many other cases). Not only can crap be written into a deed beyond the actual dimensions of the property, but usage can become an "implied easement". Did the previous owners of your home let gypsies park their caravan out back? Well, if you try to fence in the property the ACLU can sue on behalf of the nomadic drugheads by claiming that there is now an implied easement on your property allowing people to use an area our back as a car port, and you can't do anything about it even though you "own" the property.

Posted by: The Lower Depths at September 10, 2025 11:22 AM (Dg7ng)

76 The road is long
With many a winding turn
That leads us to who knows where
Who knows when
But I'm strong
Strong enough to carry him
He ain't heavy, he's my brother

So on we go

Posted by: SMOD at September 10, 2025 11:22 AM (RHGPo)

77 >>> Many chicks can’t grok logic or cause & effect.

Their AI boyfriends on Grok will explain it to them.

Posted by: LizLem at September 10, 2025 11:22 AM (gWBY1)

78 And once they have bankrupted their communities in so doing, perhaps voters will elect rational actors.
Posted by: MarkW
======
Your assumption is that the ballots are the actual truthful reflection of votes. My guess is, particularly in blue areas, that they have a large floating fraud pool of non existent voters that become mobilized as the Dems process real votes. They draw from that well as needed. That is why they screech so much about any removal from voting rolls and any attempt to get voters in the polls with actual ids. Also why they want elections digital--it is simply much easier to cheat and insert votes as needed that way.

We probably have not had semi honest elections in the US after 2000 or so. Semi honest means the margin of fraud was about 5 percent total in a state or less.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 11:23 AM (WDjG6)

79 Many chicks can’t grok logic or cause & effect.

Its not just women. I've talked with plenty of left leaning male LIVs that will not acknowledge that they are voting for the people that then implement policies they don't like.

They'll seriously just claim it is "bad luck" or blame Trump even if he has absolutely nothing to do with it

Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:23 AM (sKqQm)

80 Many chicks can’t grok logic or cause & effect.
==
TBF half the people in the world are below average intelligence. They arent all women either.

Now Blonde women....

Posted by: Womp womp at September 10, 2025 11:24 AM (9k8+1)

81 3,650 acres of Manhattan Island are on fill. The whole Battery area is mostly reclaimed land. Many of the best golf courses and parks in Brooklyn, Bronx, SI, Queens, are on reclaimed swamp.

Posted by: The Town Dump at September 10, 2025 11:24 AM (oftw2)

82 Guess who is running the "non profits".

Almost every Democratic politician in Portland and Oregon has never held a job outside the political/nonprofit bubble.

They start out working at left-wing nonprofits, get elected, and if they lose their elected position for some reason, they go right back to working for left-wing nonprofits.

If they are important enough (like the Soros DA who was voted out of office), a lucrative nonprofit position is created for them, if necessary.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at September 10, 2025 11:25 AM (xTIDn)

83 80 Many chicks can’t grok logic or cause & effect.
==
TBF half the people in the world are below average intelligence. They arent all women either.

Now Blonde women....
Posted by: Womp womp at September 10, 2025 11:24 AM (9k8+1)

======

*statistician cough*

Half are below the median.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:25 AM (GBKbO)

84 The Saudis built several islands.

Posted by: Ben Had at September 10, 2025 11:25 AM (mFSH6)

85 The Road is Long

The chair is against the wall
John has a long mustache

Oh, sorry. I thought it was code time.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 10, 2025 11:25 AM (IB/6k)

86 Now Blonde women....
Posted by: Womp womp

What do you call a bunch of blonde women standing side by side?
A wind tunnel.

What do you call a bunch of blonde women standing in a circle?
A dope ring.

Posted by: Bulg at September 10, 2025 11:26 AM (77rzZ)

87 84 The Saudis built several islands.
Posted by: Ben Had at September 10, 2025 11:25 AM (mFSH6)

Not to mention Dubai...

Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:26 AM (VE6XX)

88 They start out working at left-wing nonprofits, get elected, and if they lose their elected position for some reason, they go right back to working for left-wing nonprofits.

This is the larger point of this structure. It provides a constant stream of trained and groomed leftist pols and provides a way to remove people not fully dedicated to the narrative.

Republicans, and especially conservatives, rely on successful business people entering politics. And they are generally not as well groomed for politics so the FNM can turn them into targets very easily.

Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:27 AM (sKqQm)

89 63
‘ Just, you know, incumbency, odd election day, and blind partisanship are hard to overcome.’

I’m well aware that such types are popular with their voters. I’m just saying that their ‘blind partisanship’ is skin color and that the end product is uniformly bad.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at September 10, 2025 11:27 AM (jbnUc)

90 Your assumption is that the ballots are the actual truthful reflection of votes. My guess is, particularly in blue areas, that they have a large floating fraud pool of non existent voters that become mobilized as the Dems process real votes. They draw from that well as needed. That is why they screech so much about any removal from voting rolls and any attempt to get voters in the polls with actual ids. Also why they want elections digital--it is simply much easier to cheat and insert votes as needed that way.

Broward County officials in Broward Co. somehow accidentally reregistered 100,000 largely Dem voters. Whoops. Whoopsie.

Fortunately, someone is paying attention.

https://is.gd/5YzL0m

Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 11:27 AM (Riz8t)

91 One thing that could help in some small way:

Making it illegal to require new owners of a house to join the HOA.

They can opt in, but the assumption is that the new owners did not agree to the creation of the HOA, they own the land that they have purchased, not the HOA, and the HOA cannot impose on the new owners of the house because the HOA does not actually own the house or the land it's on.
-------
Sorry, its all fun and games hating on HOAs until the guy buys the house across the street from you and brings his 18-wheel truck home every night and parks it on the curb. Or the senior citizens at the entrance to the neighborhood park their RV in the driveway for a year at a time as all 4 tires slowly go flat. Some people want there to be rules for maintaining property values, and there has to be a mechanism in place to do that.

Posted by: Crusader, Realtor at September 10, 2025 11:28 AM (TN0g+)

92 >>3,650 acres of Manhattan Island are on fill. The whole Battery area is mostly reclaimed land. Many of the best golf courses and parks in Brooklyn, Bronx, SI, Queens, are on reclaimed swamp.

The Back Bay section of Boston where I lived for many years is called the Back Bay because that's what it originally was. It's also the only place in the city that has straight roads.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 10, 2025 11:28 AM (viF8m)

93 90 Broward County officials in Broward Co. somehow accidentally reregistered 100,000 largely Dem voters. Whoops. Whoopsie.

Fortunately, someone is paying attention.

https://is.gd/5YzL0m
Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 11:27 AM (Riz8t)

======

Yesterday, DOJ won a suit to get 100,000 inactive voters kicked off the NC voter rolls.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:28 AM (GBKbO)

94 "All kinds of trouble when you take out a dam." - South Fork Hunting and Fishing Club
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 10, 2025 11:17 AM

It can get a bit hairy, old boy.

Posted by: RAF Bomber Command at September 10, 2025 11:28 AM (ySpAZ)

95 91 Sorry, its all fun and games hating on HOAs until the guy buys the house across the street from you and brings his 18-wheel truck home every night and parks it on the curb. Or the senior citizens at the entrance to the neighborhood park their RV in the driveway for a year at a time as all 4 tires slowly go flat. Some people want there to be rules for maintaining property values, and there has to be a mechanism in place to do that.
Posted by: Crusader, Realtor at September 10, 2025 11:28 AM (TN0g+)

=======

This can get covered in town codes instead of HOAs.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:28 AM (GBKbO)

96 The voter rolls should be burned every 4 years.

Make one of the federal holidays "voter registration day" and require all townhalls work a full day on that day to register voters

Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:29 AM (sKqQm)

97 Charlotte Mayor Scores Primary Re-Election Victory Amid National Backlash Over Gruesome Train Murder’

So many of these blue cities are mayored by one of these corrupt, incompetent mammies of color.
Posted by: Dr. Claw at September 10, 2025 11:17 AM (jbnUc)

======

She won with 70% instead of 85% like two years ago.

She'll probably win the general (she won it 2 years ago with 75%), but it's obvious there was some kind of effect.

Just, you know, incumbency, odd election day, and blind partisanship are hard to overcome.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:18 AM (GBKbO)
______

They probably already harvested 25% of votes for her already. And who cares about a pretty white girl murdered by a Core Democrap Constituent?

Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025 11:29 AM (iFTx/)

98 The voter rolls should be burned every 4 years.

Make one of the federal holidays "voter registration day" and require all townhalls work a full day on that day to register voters
Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:29 AM (sKqQm)

You can’t republicans to a special election. I’m not confident they would find time for this also.

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:30 AM (EYmYM)

99 People who can afford those high taxes - or who have friends in government who can get them abatements.

********

We had abatement in our prior house but it flooded every time it rained. Installing an automatic sump pump eliminated that problem. We don't have abatement in our current house, just a crawlspace.

Posted by: muldoon at September 10, 2025 11:30 AM (/iMjX)

100 Just wait until the commies decide that your body (sexual availability) is a "community resource".

Posted by: XTC at September 10, 2025 11:30 AM (UnA8+)

101 Thx Joe.
My home city has seen an influx of NYC people and as usual a huge increase in home prices and rentals. City government reacts by imposing the first rent controls in upstate NY. Government controls building by unbelievable regulations and by grants , which naturally come from political contributions and result in more political contributions. Rinse , repeat prices continue to skyrocket

Posted by: Smell the Glove at September 10, 2025 11:30 AM (Ve63F)

102
They probably already harvested 25% of votes for her already. And who cares about a pretty white girl murdered by a Core Democrap Constituent?
Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025 11:29 AM (iFTx/)

Obviously not the "media"

Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:30 AM (VE6XX)

103 High property taxes are painful, but they do help keep out the riffraff.
Posted by: Oglebay

My TN prop taxes are 10% of what they were in OH for an equivalent sized house. No discernable uptick in the riff-raff.

Posted by: Tonypete at September 10, 2025 11:30 AM (cYBz/)

104 Sorry, its all fun and games hating on HOAs until the guy buys the house across the street from you and brings his 18-wheel truck home every night and parks it on the curb. Or the senior citizens at the entrance to the neighborhood park their RV in the driveway for a year at a time as all 4 tires slowly go flat. Some people want there to be rules for maintaining property values, and there has to be a mechanism in place to do that.
==
Your city has no laws? Really? It is up to the local posse to wrangle up cars parked in front yards, or tell people their christmas light display is gauche?? HOA means. Will Not Consider.

Posted by: Womp womp at September 10, 2025 11:30 AM (9k8+1)

105 This is why I laugh when I hear someone say that land is a safe investment. Communists ALWAYS confiscate property as their first priority.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at September 10, 2025 11:30 AM (g8Ew8)

106 HOAs are good for trash collection, snow plowing, and maintaining playgrounds.

Also, ours does some pretty nice landscaping.

Posted by: Bulg at September 10, 2025 11:31 AM (77rzZ)

107 Just wait until the commies decide that your body (sexual availability) is a "community resource".

If you read incel commentary they argue this. As socialists they believe everything should be owned/controlled by the collective...including your actual body

Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:31 AM (sKqQm)

108
High property taxes are painful, but they do help keep out the riffraff.
Posted by: Oglebay

_________

*glares*

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 10, 2025 11:31 AM (kkTda)

109 We don't have abatement in our current house, just a crawlspace.
Posted by: muldoon

iswydt

Posted by: Tonypete at September 10, 2025 11:31 AM (cYBz/)

110 75
‘ you can't do anything about it even though you "own" the property.’

You only own it in the sense that you pay the property taxes.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at September 10, 2025 11:31 AM (jbnUc)

111 As socialists they believe everything should be owned/controlled by the collective...including your actual body
Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:31 AM (sKqQm

Over my dead one....)

Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:32 AM (VE6XX)

112 Here's some more UFO stuff:

Hellfire rocket bounces off UFO

https://tinyurl.com/3evdyj2r

How come there's never a clear picture/video of any of these things?

Posted by: naturalfake at September 10, 2025 11:32 AM (iJfKG)

113 I pay a good amount for HOA dues but I get a pretty good bang for the buck currently.

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:32 AM (EYmYM)

114 Sorry, its all fun and games hating on HOAs until the guy buys the house across the street from you and brings his 18-wheel truck home every night and parks it on the curb. Or the senior citizens at the entrance to the neighborhood park their RV in the driveway for a year at a time as all 4 tires slowly go flat. Some people want there to be rules for maintaining property values, and there has to be a mechanism in place to do that.
-----------------------------
HOAs attract the worst kinds of tinpot dictator types. They were run by karens before anyone used that term. Municipalities could easily pass and enforce ordinances about the sorts of things you mention, but why do that if Karen McKaren at the HOA can harass people for free or force everything to replace their roofs at ruinous cost (probably giving a friend of hers work)?

Posted by: The Lower Depths at September 10, 2025 11:32 AM (Dg7ng)

115 Your city has no laws? Really? It is up to the local posse to wrangle up cars parked in front yards, or tell people their christmas light display is gauche?? HOA means. Will Not Consider.

And that's how it should work. My neighborhood has an HOA and clearly promulgated rules about what can and can't be done to the property. If you don't like it, don't buy there.

Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 11:32 AM (Riz8t)

116 who have friends in government who can get them abatements.

Mass abatements.

Posted by: Commissar of plenty and festive little hats at September 10, 2025 11:32 AM (tw5K6)

117 Just wait until the commies decide that your body (sexual availability) is a "community resource".
Posted by: XTC at September 10, 2025 11:30 AM (UnA8+)
____

They pretty much already have. They just haven't taken steps to enforce it yet.

Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025 11:33 AM (iFTx/)

118 We had abatement in our prior house but it flooded every time it rained. Installing an automatic sump pump eliminated that problem. We don't have abatement in our current house, just a crawlspace.
Posted by: muldoon

I don't wanna go down to the abatement. There's something down there.....

Posted by: Joey Ramone at September 10, 2025 11:33 AM (oftw2)

119 Posted by: muldoon at September 10, 2025 11:30 AM (/iMjX)

*********

This comment is funnier if you read it in Eddie Murphy's voice.

Posted by: muldoon at September 10, 2025 11:33 AM (/iMjX)

120 No election should take longer than 4 days (Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday).
This should cover most of the problems with going to the polls

Posted by: SMOD at September 10, 2025 11:33 AM (RHGPo)

121 115 And that's how it should work. My neighborhood has an HOA and clearly promulgated rules about what can and can't be done to the property. If you don't like it, don't buy there.
Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 11:32 AM (Riz8t)

=======

The problem is the choice to opt out of HOAs is becoming increasingly limited since the vast majority of new builds come with HOAs.

When you throw in the school question, it limits it even further.

The HOA doesn't own my home. I do. I never voted to join the HOA. It should not be assumed that I join the HOA when I move in.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:34 AM (GBKbO)

122 Broward County officials in Broward Co. somehow accidentally reregistered 100,000 largely Dem voters. Whoops. Whoopsie.

Fortunately, someone is paying attention.

https://is.gd/5YzL0m
Posted by: Archimedes

That should be a free trip to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 10, 2025 11:34 AM (IB/6k)

123 It's also the only place in the city that has straight roads.
Posted by: JackStraw

The only time I saw a car driving on the sidewalk was when we visited Boston on a family vacation when I was a kid.

Posted by: Bulg at September 10, 2025 11:35 AM (77rzZ)

124 > They probably already harvested 25% of votes for her already. And who cares about a pretty white girl murdered by a Core Democrap Constituent?
----------
There's been a noticeable uptick in posts on the socials that think this sort of shit has to stop. The phrase "radicalized" is being used to describe how people feel about it.

Being the Internet and all... you sort of have to hedge what "radicalized" means in this context. But it appears to mean some are fed up.

*shrugs* File it under "nothing will happen." Maybe.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at September 10, 2025 11:35 AM (Q4IgG)

125 Desalination... Santa Barbara is not connected to the Norcal water supply. SB built a desalination plant. Then there were a couple of years of good rainfall levels. The plant had to be operated to keep it functional which cost $$$. SSSSB sold the plant to the Saudis. Now SB is looking into building a desalination plant... again.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 10, 2025 11:35 AM (EeepC)

126 Hot women, blondes especially, I have concluded don’t really need to get a job or get smart or anything. So they don’t. They can be eye candy or cock ornament and get by just fine. So that’s what they do.

I’m simply talking about generalization. Some women are logical thinkers, but the standard issue American broad in 2025 that ain’t the way to bet too often. The males have been lobotomized and gelded whenever possible.

Boys are treated as defective girls in the public school system, and often drugged, by man-hating commie harpies and assorted whack jobs. They did suggest more Male teachers would be a good idea for a brief period in the 1990s but near as anyone could tell they hired a bunch of queers (and now trannies).

Posted by: Common Tater at September 10, 2025 11:35 AM (gptA6)

127
There are some interesting allegations about Hawaii

DOGE in Hawaii

https://tinyurl.com/ywcuystd

Posted by: Kindltot at September 10, 2025 11:35 AM (rbvCR)

128 The HOA doesn't own my home. I do. I never voted to join the HOA. It should not be assumed that I join the HOA when I move in.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:34 AM (GBKbO)

Sounds good in theory but if you benefit from the HOA you should have to pay HOA dues and abide by the bylaws.

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:35 AM (EYmYM)

129 Great piece, Joe. Do not forget the 'protection of the Delta Smelt' and what that did... Or, the Sackett family in WA.

Fvckers. All of them.

Posted by: Danimal28 at September 10, 2025 11:36 AM (1E4GV)

130 >>And that's how it should work. My neighborhood has an HOA and clearly promulgated rules about what can and can't be done to the property. If you don't like it, don't buy there.

Wouldn't. My property is mine not Karen's.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 10, 2025 11:36 AM (viF8m)

131 The HOA doesn't own my home. I do. I never voted to join the HOA. It should not be assumed that I join the HOA when I move in.

My neighborhood has very clearly defined rules; rules which you are told about before you buy. When you sign the mortgage papers, you also agree to abide by the HOA rules. There's no assumption about it. You agreed to it.

Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 11:36 AM (Riz8t)

132 There's been a noticeable uptick in posts on the socials that think this sort of shit has to stop. The phrase "radicalized" is being used to describe how people feel about it.

I remember 20 years ago there was a governor election in WA that the R won narrowly. But then every day the D just kept "finding" more votes.

I assumed that it was obvious to everyone what was going on and someone would stop it and...nope.

Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:36 AM (sKqQm)

133
It can get a bit hairy, old boy.
Posted by: RAF Bomber Command

What's my dog's name again?

Posted by: Commissar of plenty and festive little hats at September 10, 2025 11:36 AM (zvOYi)

134 Also in Texas at least, you are notified of the HOA before you close and are provided a copy of the by laws.

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:36 AM (EYmYM)

135 The HOA doesn't own my home. I do. I never voted to join the HOA. It should not be assumed that I join the HOA when I move in.
==
Oh no, we cant have you doing whatever you want with something you own. I have to be able to control you, so that my propery and enjoyment is preserved!! Because being free means i am able to do what i want. You, not so much.

Posted by: HOA promoter at September 10, 2025 11:37 AM (9k8+1)

136 124 There's been a noticeable uptick in posts on the socials that think this sort of shit has to stop. The phrase "radicalized" is being used to describe how people feel about it.

Being the Internet and all... you sort of have to hedge what "radicalized" means in this context. But it appears to mean some are fed up.

*shrugs* File it under "nothing will happen." Maybe.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at September 10, 2025 11:35 AM (Q4IgG)

========

In South Carolina last year a white girl was murdered by a multi-time, black felon. She was visiting some friends in Columbia, the house she was in was broken into, the man shot her dead.

No one remembers this story.

People remember the Charlotte story because of the video. The very clear video that, without question, establishes cold-blooded murder without remorse.

Images are powerful things.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:37 AM (GBKbO)

137 130 >>And that's how it should work. My neighborhood has an HOA and clearly promulgated rules about what can and can't be done to the property. If you don't like it, don't buy there.

Wouldn't. My property is mine not Karen's.

And that's fine. It's your choice.

Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 11:37 AM (Riz8t)

138 128 Sounds good in theory but if you benefit from the HOA you should have to pay HOA dues and abide by the bylaws.
Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:35 AM (EYmYM)

=======

They don't mow my grass. I can pass on the pool.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:37 AM (GBKbO)

139 This can get covered in town codes instead of HOAs.
--------
You want the city of Portland or Charlotte (pretending) to "protect property values"? Or would you prefer the HOA simply filing liens and cutting out the nonsense?

Posted by: Crusader, Realtor at September 10, 2025 11:37 AM (TN0g+)

140 >There are some interesting allegations about Hawaii

I can't be moved to give a fuck about Hawaii.

Posted by: mr tmz at September 10, 2025 11:38 AM (rJ48h)

141
8 Families in my HOA / site condominium.
It's difficult to be a Karenfuhrer in such a small group.

Posted by: Auspex at September 10, 2025 11:38 AM (Y8DZL)

142 139 This can get covered in town codes instead of HOAs.
--------
You want the city of Portland or Charlotte (pretending) to "protect property values"? Or would you prefer the HOA simply filing liens and cutting out the nonsense?
Posted by: Crusader, Realtor at September 10, 2025 11:37 AM (TN0g+)

=======

The town, definitely.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:38 AM (GBKbO)

143 Nearest neighbor is 1/4 of a mile away and pasture on either side of the barn.

Posted by: Ben Had at September 10, 2025 11:38 AM (mFSH6)

144 8 Families in my HOA / site condominium.
It's difficult to be a Karenfuhrer in such a small group.

Perhaps if you gave her a better name. How about ObersturmbahnKaren.

Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 11:39 AM (Riz8t)

145 They don't mow my grass. I can pass on the pool.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:37 AM (GBKbO)

You think that’s all they do? And do you concede you are told about the HOA before you buy?

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:39 AM (EYmYM)

146 Nearest neighbor is 1/4 of a mile away and pasture on either side of the barn.
Posted by: Ben Had at September 10, 2025 11:38 AM

*sigh*

I really need to get up to NH.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at September 10, 2025 11:40 AM (ySpAZ)

147 140 I can't be moved to give a fuck about Hawaii.
Posted by: mr tmz at September 10, 2025 11:38 AM (rJ48h)

Let the Yakuza have it.

Posted by: XTC at September 10, 2025 11:40 AM (UnA8+)

148 My neighborhood has very clearly defined rules; rules which you are told about before you buy. When you sign the mortgage papers, you also agree to abide by the HOA rules. There's no assumption about it. You agreed to it.
-------

Yes. And your Realtor is negligent if they didn't make it clear at the time you wrote the Offer to purchase. You're also supposed to be provided the HOA rules (Covenants and Restrictions) PRIOR to closing/taking title.

Posted by: Crusader, Realtor at September 10, 2025 11:40 AM (TN0g+)

149 147 140 I can't be moved to give a fuck about Hawaii.
Posted by: mr tmz at September 10, 2025 11:38 AM (rJ48h)

Wish we could "Un-State" it...

Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:40 AM (VE6XX)

150 The rubes can't be having property.

You'll own nothing, and like it!

Posted by: G. Soros and The WEFers at September 10, 2025 11:41 AM (0sNs1)

151 145 They don't mow my grass. I can pass on the pool.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:37 AM (GBKbO)

You think that’s all they do? And do you concede you are told about the HOA before you buy?
Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:39 AM (EYmYM)

=======

If I can't opt out of it when I buy the house, is it a choice?

And yes, that's literally all my HOA does. I've been to the meetings.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:41 AM (GBKbO)

152 Musk is no longer the world's richest person.

Oracle (ORCL) founder, Chairman and Chief Technology Officer Larry Ellison has become the world's richest person as his fortune increased by $101 billion to $393 billion after the company posted fiscal Q1 earnings results that surpassed expectations, according to media reports on Wednesday.

Oracle shares were up nearly 43% in recent trading.

- Newswire

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at September 10, 2025 11:41 AM (i24o9)

153 >>> the brackets should be doubled to reflect the real reduction in dollar values
Posted by: 18-1 at September
---------------

He says, politely, KMA.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at September 10, 2025 11:41 AM (Ri+6K)

154 148 Yes. And your Realtor is negligent if they didn't make it clear at the time you wrote the Offer to purchase. You're also supposed to be provided the HOA rules (Covenants and Restrictions) PRIOR to closing/taking title.
Posted by: Crusader, Realtor at September 10, 2025 11:40 AM (TN0g+)

=======

My agreement to join the HOA should be separate from my agreement to buy a house. I'm negotiating with the owner of the land, not the managers of the pool.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:42 AM (GBKbO)

155 Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:41 AM (GBKbO)

You can choose not to buy the house.

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:42 AM (EYmYM)

156 High property taxes are painful, but they do help keep out the riffraff.
Posted by: Oglebay

You are right. No one needs to own a home until they are 57.
Oh, I'm sorry, you meant "the county needs that extra income because they need the financial space to put in more bond measures to make the commissioners feel connected to the people they golf with"

Posted by: Kindltot at September 10, 2025 11:42 AM (rbvCR)

157 155 Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:41 AM (GBKbO)

You can choose not to buy the house.
Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:42 AM (EYmYM)

=======

It is a legal abomination that I cannot choose to buy the house and not join the HOA.

If I can't opt out of the HOA, then the HOA actually owns the house.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:42 AM (GBKbO)

158 150 The rubes can't be having property.

You'll own nothing, and like it!
Posted by: G. Soros and The WEFers at September 10, 2025 11:41 AM (0sNs1)

The head of Blackrock runs the WEF now.

Yeeugh.

Posted by: XTC at September 10, 2025 11:43 AM (UnA8+)

159 We had abatement in our prior house but it flooded every time it rained. Installing an automatic sump pump eliminated that problem. We don't have abatement in our current house, just a crawlspace.
Posted by: muldoon at September 10, 2025 11:30 AM (/iMjX)

you're channeling Mike Tyson there. His thump pump is amazing.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 10, 2025 11:43 AM (uWKK8)

160 And yes, that's literally all my HOA does. I've been to the meetings.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in
==
Wait. You cant use your own experience in an argument. It all has to be general principles of the righteous good of the collective!

Posted by: HOA promoter at September 10, 2025 11:43 AM (9k8+1)

161 So Kamala turned on Jill and Joe... Sort of...

Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:43 AM (VE6XX)

162 148 My neighborhood has very clearly defined rules; rules which you are told about before you buy. When you sign the mortgage papers, you also agree to abide by the HOA rules. There's no assumption about it. You agreed to it.
-------

Yes. And your Realtor is negligent if they didn't make it clear at the time you wrote the Offer to purchase. You're also supposed to be provided the HOA rules (Covenants and Restrictions) PRIOR to closing/taking title.
Posted by: Crusader
======
Fun fact, many of those HOAs do not actually follow local or state law in all provisions and quite often they end up losing in court for claiming power above and beyond what contract law in a state allows. Plus massive due process problems in many of them relating to fines, requirements, etc.

The best counteractive is probably putting HOA officials and HOA management companies on the hook with personal liability for those involved in illegal decisions.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 11:44 AM (WDjG6)

163 The HOA doesn't own my home. I do. I never voted to join the HOA. It should not be assumed that I join the HOA when I move in.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:34 AM (GBKbO)
_____

You "voted" to join when you bought in an area or development that has a HOA. It's like buying an apartment that has a condo board and owner regulations (they all do now). You buy, you're subject to the rules and by-laws. It's not optional.

And while HOA and condo boards get a bad rap, they serve useful purposes in policing idiots and ensuring a calm and uniform look for the community. Nobody wants to live next to the loudmouth idiot blasting shit music while working on his rusted out Camaro sitting on the front lawn on cinder blocks. Without HOA, that's what you'll get.

I suggest that anyone thinking of buying fully read and understand the applicable rules and regs before they buy.

Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025 11:44 AM (iFTx/)

164 Fat-fingered monkey replaces fat-fingered gal!

Posted by: GWB at September 10, 2025 11:44 AM (RTQn+)

165 Nearest neighbor is 1/4 of a mile away and pasture on either side of the barn.
Posted by: Ben Had

Amen. And he's my stepson. And there's a line of trees between us.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 10, 2025 11:44 AM (IB/6k)

166 pi]The HOA doesn't own my home. I do. I never voted to join the HOA. It should not be assumed that I join the HOA when I move in.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:34 AM (GBKbO)

You realize that strict belief in property rights is not a conservative value when measured in the balance to moral behavior and empowering Mrs Grundy to make you landscape your lawn to her specifications.

Posted by: Kindltot at September 10, 2025 11:44 AM (rbvCR)

167 Just wait until the commies decide that your body (sexual availability) is a "community resource".
Posted by: XTC at September 10, 2025 11:30 AM

Sadly, The Paolo can only, how you say, do so much.

Posted by: Paolo at September 10, 2025 11:44 AM (0sNs1)

168 If you don't want to deal with HOA's don't buy a property with one...

Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:45 AM (VE6XX)

169 163 I suggest that anyone thinking of buying fully read and understand the applicable rules and regs before they buy.
Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025 11:44 AM (iFTx/)

=======

My attack is on the "law" that backs the practice.

It's bad law.

If the HOA is worthwhile, I should be happy to join it. If I can opt out, it gives the HOA incentive to be good at what it's supposed to do.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:45 AM (GBKbO)

170 The low income scam as run by the local and state welfare agencies means landlords get tenants off the street. I will be working on three units that the landlord's former manager let HUD put in people for 'emergency housing'. I am having the landlord pay someone else to clean and repaint before I do the needed renovations.

Posted by: clarence at September 10, 2025 11:45 AM (O55k+)

171 That damned Zelensky.

So Russia Attacked Poland Last Night...

Russia launched 19 suicide drones into Polish airspace Tuesday night, prompting a rapid NATO response and marking the first direct NATO military engagement within alliance airspace since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine began more than three years ago.

With so many drones involved, what happened last night appears to be no accident.

https://is.gd/Eszua4

Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 11:46 AM (Riz8t)

172 And while HOA and condo boards get a bad rap, they serve useful purposes in policing idiots and ensuring a calm and uniform look for the community. Nobody wants to live next to the loudmouth idiot blasting shit music while working on his rusted out Camaro sitting on the front lawn on cinder blocks. Without HOA, that's what you'll get.

I suggest that anyone thinking of buying fully read and understand the applicable rules and regs before they buy.
Posted by: Elric The Blade

I take it you've never seen what a city code enforcement nazi can do. HOAs don't come close.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 10, 2025 11:46 AM (IB/6k)

173
I saw Man-Hating Commie Harpies and Assorted Whack Jobs open for Chumbawamba at the London Palladium in '99.

Posted by: naturalfake at September 10, 2025 11:46 AM (iJfKG)

174 Just wait until the commies decide that your body (sexual availability) is a "community resource".
Posted by: XTC

First you legalize prostitution... then you require workers to except jobs to get them off welfare. Then you legalize brothels who offer women jobs... Germany IIRC.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 10, 2025 11:46 AM (EeepC)

175 Nobody wants to live next to the loudmouth idiot blasting shit music while working on his rusted out Camaro sitting on the front lawn on cinder blocks
==
not familiar with noise ordinances zoning or nuisance claims.

Posted by: Lawyer much at September 10, 2025 11:47 AM (9k8+1)

176 >>Nobody wants to live next to the loudmouth idiot blasting shit music while working on his rusted out Camaro sitting on the front lawn on cinder blocks. Without HOA, that's what you'll get.

I don't live in an HOA. I don't have loudmouth idiots working on rusty Camaros in my hood.

The town has noise ordinances and it costs a few bucks to live here. That tends to keep the peace.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 10, 2025 11:48 AM (viF8m)

177 I suggest that anyone thinking of buying fully read and understand the applicable rules and regs before they buy.
Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025 11:44 AM (iFTx/)

=======

My attack is on the "law" that backs the practice.

It's bad law.

If the HOA is worthwhile, I should be happy to join it. If I can opt out, it gives the HOA incentive to be good at what it's supposed to do.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:45 AM (GBKbO)
_____

It's just general contract law. You basically sign a contract when you buy. If people could opt out of the HOA, then everyone would because they'd naturally want someone else to pay and do the work.

In my experience, the HOA is easier to deal with that the loan land-use authorities.

Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025 11:48 AM (iFTx/)

178 175 Nobody wants to live next to the loudmouth idiot blasting shit music while working on his rusted out Camaro sitting on the front lawn on cinder blocks
==

Don't need HOA's to get rid of that Local ordinances do that

Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:48 AM (VE6XX)

179
If you don't want to deal with HOA's don't buy a property with one...
Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:45 AM (VE6XX)

_________

When we were looking, no deed restrictions was high on our list of musts.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 10, 2025 11:48 AM (kkTda)

180 Our HOA association decided t install an ATM machine at the main entrance, but then they wanted everybody t disclose their PIN number. I was so upset I almost had a TIA attack and needed CPR resuscitation.

Posted by: muldoon at September 10, 2025 11:49 AM (/iMjX)

181 Groundwater is a shared resource. And if you are rich you can still feel and get more of it.Peoe in AZ are pissed because the Saudis have bought up desert land, put in wells, and now grow alfalfa for export to Saudi Arabia. Groundwater depth has dropped 100 feet homeowners can not afford they.
Who needs to control that if not the government ?

Posted by: Aliassmithsmith at September 10, 2025 11:49 AM (8vDUP)

182 And while HOA and condo boards get a bad rap, they serve useful purposes in policing idiots and ensuring a calm and uniform look for the community. Nobody wants to live next to the loudmouth idiot blasting shit music while working on his rusted out Camaro sitting on the front lawn on cinder blocks. Without HOA, that's what you'll get.

I suggest that anyone thinking of buying fully read and understand the applicable rules and regs before they buy.
Posted by: Elric The Blade

I take it you've never seen what a city code enforcement nazi can do. HOAs don't come close.
Posted by: rickb223 at September 10, 2025 11:46 AM (IB/6k)
___

Of course I have. See my comment about how local land-use enforcement is much worse than HOAs.

Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025 11:49 AM (iFTx/)

183 Ghost Taxes are akin to Slumlord Taxes that cropped up in my locale - Failure to maintain\modernize (in the GOV agents views, of course...), brings on abatements and levies against property owners to maintain\modernize\enhance their properties without any relief from the cost.

It started with 10+ units\properties, but its eroded down to 4 (Seeing how having 3 would make my local councilmembers subject to their rules - 4 got them into a safe zone).

Posted by: Pinochet Flight Attendant at September 10, 2025 11:49 AM (zL/eJ)

184 Can only speak to 3 states, so YMMV, but a mandatory HOA is similar to a municipality- toy can't by a house in a town and then say you're not part of the town. All other HOAs are voluntary, and can be safely ignored...

Posted by: man at September 10, 2025 11:49 AM (tubbA)

185 When we were looking, no deed restrictions was high on our list of musts.

That's entirely reasonable. You're an adult. You decide what's important to you and proceed accordingly.

Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 11:49 AM (Riz8t)

186 First you legalize prostitution... then you require workers to except jobs to get them off welfare. Then you legalize brothels who offer women jobs... Germany IIRC.

IIRC the full story on this one is a woman was laid off and German law requires you to apply to companies off of a list to get their version of unemployment.

The list they gave this woman then included a legal brothel looking for workers.

Now the FNM called the story false because of course there were other companies looking to hire in her area. But...that's one of those classic "This is false because I added a small bit to the story that is false even if the rest is true" type things

Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:50 AM (sKqQm)

187 ========

In South Carolina last year a white girl was murdered by a multi-time, black felon. She was visiting some friends in Columbia, the house she was in was broken into, the man shot her dead.

No one remembers this story.

People remember the Charlotte story because of the video. The very clear video that, without question, establishes cold-blooded murder without remorse.

Images are powerful things.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters
--------------------

There is video of the boy stabbed and murdered in Fresno? (close to Plano) Texas but they haven't released it. The video of that woman stabbed and murdered in Charlotte should be a call for the release of the other video. Concept of what's happening needs to penetrate numb skulls.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at September 10, 2025 11:50 AM (Ri+6K)

188 HOAs and Karens?

Seriously, people, there's only 13 more days until Kamala!'s book comes out. Shouldn't we be shivering in anticipation instead?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 10, 2025 11:50 AM (0sNs1)

189 Well, if you try to fence in the property the ACLU can sue on behalf of the nomadic drugheads by claiming that there is now an implied easement on your property allowing people to use an area our back as a car port, and you can't do anything about it even though you "own" the property.

----

I didnt kick them out.... they never came back after the fir happened

Posted by: Lemmiwinks at September 10, 2025 11:50 AM (cDb09)

190 Nobody wants to live next to the loudmouth idiot blasting shit music while working on his rusted out Camaro sitting on the front lawn on cinder blocks
==

Don't need HOA's to get rid of that Local ordinances do that
Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:48 AM (VE6XX)
___

Depends on the area and what the local ordinances are -- and whether the local law enforcement can be bothered to intervene.

Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025 11:50 AM (iFTx/)

191 to ask the housing community
As if they are black or trans or homosexual, it's the "housing community."

(Of course, I don't think those others are much of "communities", either.)

Posted by: GWB at September 10, 2025 11:51 AM (RTQn+)

192 It’s not a law. It’s a community that was built as an HOA community. What right do you think you have to tell the developers that they can’t be an HOA community?

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 11:51 AM (EYmYM)

193 How did the Charlotte stabbing video get released?

Its from a government camera right? Did a white hat release it without permission?

Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:51 AM (sKqQm)

194 Our HOA association decided t install an ATM machine at the main entrance, but then they wanted everybody t disclose their PIN number. I was so upset I almost had a TIA attack and needed CPR resuscitation.
Posted by: muldoon
==
Exactly. What fresh hell is next. Those who like ther HOA great. Hope it never changes. But any organization that can change, becomes more progressive over time. People are policy. Stay vigilant.

Posted by: Lawyer much at September 10, 2025 11:51 AM (9k8+1)

195 106 HOAs are good for trash collection, snow plowing, and maintaining playgrounds.

Also, ours does some pretty nice landscaping.

Posted by: Bulg at September 10, 2025 11:31 AM (77rzZ)

This, 100%. And it's cost effective in VA, vs individual homeowners having to contract for trash pick up (and let's not get into state plowing vs community plowing - we are always out 1st)...

Posted by: Nova Local at September 10, 2025 11:51 AM (tOcjL)

196 My attack is on the "law" that backs the practice.

It's bad law.

If the HOA is worthwhile, I should be happy to join it. If I can opt out, it gives the HOA incentive to be good at what it's supposed to do.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison
=======
Contract law is not designed to be fair to all parties but usually results in asymmetric assignation of costs and benefits.

Regarding HOAs, there should be clear state statutory guidance as to what is allowed and what is not with easy recourse to courts for disputes and mandatory due process protections for disputants versus the board.

Want to be within a petty government backed by contracts, then you assume the constitutional and statutory limitations of a government.

Never been a fan of private organizations taking on the role of governments but then declaiming liability for their actions based on contract law.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 11:52 AM (WDjG6)

197 HOA's are nothing but communist property commissars. I guess some people enjoy them.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at September 10, 2025 11:52 AM (g8Ew8)

198
I take it you've never seen what a city code enforcement nazi can do. HOAs don't come close.
Posted by: rickb223 at September 10, 2025 11:46 AM (IB/6k)

They fly drones over properties here looking for infractions like illegal dwellings and garbage in yards.... Got us... We have a 1/3 acre lot on the side of the house and My husband had equipment from his old masonry company... Made us clean it up... I was happy actually but still... I'm in Ca so says it all

Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:52 AM (VE6XX)

199 You "voted" to join when you bought in an area or development that has a HOA.
Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025 11:44 AM (iFTx/)

Yes. It was in your housing paperwork somewhere, I guarantee. If it was NOT, then you have an argument about a fraudulent sale.

Posted by: GWB at September 10, 2025 11:52 AM (RTQn+)

200 193 How did the Charlotte stabbing video get released?

Its from a government camera right? Did a white hat release it without permission?
Posted by: 18-1 at September 10, 2025 11:51 AM (sKqQm)

I wondered the same thing....

Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:53 AM (VE6XX)

201 Never been a fan of private organizations taking on the role of governments but then declaiming liability for their actions based on contract law."

You just described The Woodlands...

Posted by: man at September 10, 2025 11:53 AM (tubbA)

202 When we were looking, no deed restrictions was high on our list of musts.

Love being able to legally shoot off the front, side & back porch. Ride the atv all over. Make as much noise as I want. Bonfire. BBQ & smoker going.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 10, 2025 11:53 AM (IB/6k)

203 They fly drones over properties here looking for infractions like illegal dwellings and garbage in yards....

You could probably contract with the Russians to do it cheap.

Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 11:53 AM (Riz8t)

204 Are pink flamingo lawn ornaments allowed? Those MFers breed like rabbits and crap all over.

Posted by: muldoon at September 10, 2025 11:53 AM (/iMjX)

205 174 First you legalize prostitution... then you require workers to except jobs to get them off welfare. Then you legalize brothels who offer women jobs... Germany IIRC.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 10, 2025 11:46 AM (EeepC)

It'd go farther than that.

They'll take someone that doesn't even WANT to engage in sexual intercourse with anybody (not because someone is ugly, but because they don't want sex, PERIOD), and force them to put out for some 400 lb. Troon.

Posted by: XTC at September 10, 2025 11:53 AM (UnA8+)

206 Exactly. What fresh hell is next. Those who like ther HOA great. Hope it never changes. But any organization that can change, becomes more progressive over time. People are policy. Stay vigilant.

Posted by: Lawyer much at September 10, 2025 11:51 AM (9k8+1)

Trick - READ YOUR HOA DOCS BEFORE BUYING. Some HOAs are very powerful, some are not. Some are wonderful for communities and are easy for homeowners to help out with, some are not. Some have limits on what they can charge per year, some do not (buy into the one limited to the published inflation rate - it's been a godsend for me)...

Posted by: Nova Local at September 10, 2025 11:53 AM (tOcjL)

207 My agreement to join the HOA should be separate from my agreement to buy a house. I'm negotiating with the owner of the land, not the managers of the pool.
--------
The land underneath your house was placed in the HOA by the developer before any concrete was ever poured. Not a soul who every owned that house ever doubted that they were agreeing to the HOA as part of the purchase process. The HOA is part of the contract, not some sort of "option" like paint-protector.

Posted by: Crusader, Realtor at September 10, 2025 11:53 AM (TN0g+)

208 Sorry, its all fun and games hating on HOAs

When the HOA you are a part of threatens to sue you for non-payment and when you call them up with proof of mailing, they miraculously find the check.

When the HOA complains about you planting native plants and refuses to answer your calls about that.

When the HOA suddenly stops inviting you to the monthly meeting because they don't want to hear about problems...

Then HELL YES it's appropriate to hate them. I'd even go as far to say it's a moral imperative.

Posted by: NR Pax at September 10, 2025 11:54 AM (BpO1e)

209 192 It’s not a law. It’s a community that was built as an HOA community. What right do you think you have to tell the developers that they can’t be an HOA community?
Posted by: polynikes
========
Because they use the courts of a state to enforce contract provisions. So, the state can say what is allowable just like they can for any other contract.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 11:54 AM (WDjG6)

210 There is a movement to make HOAs illegal.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at September 10, 2025 11:54 AM (Ri+6K)

211 My first home was in a HOA. Assholes, all. None of my next 8 or 9 homes were... but in California the neighborhood was "patrolled" by a number of Karens and Todds who'd come beat on your door if your trash bins were incorrectly placed on the curb, or if you had more vehicles (in working order) than would fit in your 20' driveway. It was one of the reasons we bugged out of CA back in 2013.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at September 10, 2025 11:55 AM (Q4IgG)

212
And it's cost effective in VA, vs individual homeowners having to contract for trash pick up

________

I contracted for trash pick up. I also contracted to have a street light put in along the road. It wasn't all that hard.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 10, 2025 11:55 AM (kkTda)

213 But plankton.
Posted by: gKWVE at September 10, 2025 11:07 AM (gKWVE)

If they turned it into "NotQuiteMeat" you'd think they would eat it up, as it were.

Posted by: GWB at September 10, 2025 11:55 AM (RTQn+)

214 I had a HOA once. But I was young, lustful and it was only $20 back then.

Posted by: That Guy at September 10, 2025 11:55 AM (XXLiD)

215 The land underneath your house was placed in the HOA by the developer"

Not always. Check first...

Posted by: man at September 10, 2025 11:55 AM (tubbA)

216 Trick - READ YOUR HOA DOCS BEFORE BUYING. Some HOAs are very powerful, some are not. Some are wonderful for communities and are easy for homeowners to help out with, some are not. Some have limits on what they can charge per year, some do not (buy into the one limited to the published inflation rate - it's been a godsend for me)...

Posted by: Nova Local

The problem is that often HOAs themselves ignore their contractual obligations and limitations and the property management companies are essentially rent seeking organizations--their client is the HOA, not the homeowner--this leads to homeowners being disadvantaged in any showdown.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 11:56 AM (WDjG6)

217 I guess some people enjoy them.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at September 10, 2025 11:52 AM (g8Ew

It is shocking to discover.

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at September 10, 2025 11:56 AM (i24o9)

218 180 Our HOA association decided t install an ATM machine at the main entrance, but then they wanted everybody t disclose their PIN number. I was so upset I almost had a TIA attack and needed CPR resuscitation.
Posted by: muldoon at September 10, 2025 11:49 AM (/iMjX)

OMG
WTF
BBQ

Posted by: XTC at September 10, 2025 11:56 AM (UnA8+)

219 Then HELL YES it's appropriate to hate them. I'd even go as far to say it's a moral imperative.

I volunteered to join the HOA board when I learned that due to board members dropping off, the only other option is to outsource the management, which costs 35k/year.

our current dues are a very reasonable 30 bucks/month. No one is going to pay ten times that amount, so I am joining the board, and am recruiting some of my neighbors to do the same.

Posted by: kallisto at September 10, 2025 11:56 AM (dCxaZ)

220 212
And it's cost effective in VA, vs individual homeowners having to contract for trash pick up

________

I contracted for trash pick up. I also contracted to have a street light put in along the road. It wasn't all that hard.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 10, 2025 11:55 AM (kkTda)

And you probably pay more than I do...and I have none of the work, since other homeowners happily are in charge right now.

Posted by: Nova Local at September 10, 2025 11:56 AM (tOcjL)

221 Trick - READ YOUR HOA DOCS BEFORE BUYING. Some HOAs are very powerful, some are not. Some are wonderful for communities and are easy for homeowners to help out with, some are not. Some have limits on what they can charge per year, some do not (buy into the one limited to the published inflation rate - it's been a godsend for me)...
==
Karen moves in. Becomes head of hoa. Uses petty bullshit to settle scores. Sure, you can point to the rules and maybe sue. Meanwhile you have to deal with a karen. It happens. Hope it doesnt happen to you.

Posted by: Lawyer much at September 10, 2025 11:57 AM (9k8+1)

222 I take it you've never seen what a city code enforcement nazi can do. HOAs don't come close.
Posted by: rickb223 at September 10, 2025 11:46 AM (IB/6k)

They fly drones over properties here looking for infractions like illegal dwellings and garbage in yards.... Got us... We have a 1/3 acre lot on the side of the house and My husband had equipment from his old masonry company... Made us clean it up... I was happy actually but still... I'm in Ca so says it all
Posted by: It's me donna

Before we moved, our city code nazi would drive up & down the alleys and stand in the bed of his truck to look over 6' privacy fences. Got a neighbor who had four tires (mounted on rims, not mosquitoe breeding pools) leaned up against his garage. Nice little ticket.

A Karen wouldn't do that.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 10, 2025 11:57 AM (IB/6k)

223 I contracted for trash pick up"

Wasn't it just a few years ago when multiple trash pickups was the issue facing the republic?
Good times

Posted by: man at September 10, 2025 11:57 AM (tubbA)

224 You can also try to get on the HOA and have a say in the community. I advise to do it. Same for co-op or condo boards. I'm the VP on my board. It's a pain in the ass, but it has enabled me to exert some degree of control over decision-making. Which has saved the building some dumb decisions that otherwise would have been made.

Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025 11:57 AM (iFTx/)

225 210 There is a movement to make HOAs illegal.

Posted by: Braenyard
========
I don't think they should be illegal, but states should regulate them as they do local governments and they should be required to meet stds of due process, adherence to obligations, etc. the same as local governments do.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 11:58 AM (WDjG6)

226 our current dues are a very reasonable 30 bucks/month. No one is going to pay ten times that amount, so I am joining the board, and am recruiting some of my neighbors to do the same.

You are clearly a mega-Karen who enjoys crushing your neighbors under your boot heel. There is no other possible explanation.

Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 11:58 AM (Riz8t)

227 Before we moved, our city code nazi would drive up & down the alleys and stand in the bed of his truck to look over 6' privacy fences. Got a neighbor who had four tires (mounted on rims, not mosquitoe breeding pools) leaned up against his garage. Nice little ticket.

A Karen wouldn't do that.
Posted by: rickb223 at September 10, 2025 11:57 AM (IB/6k)

Ours was behing solid fencing also... But Ca so....

Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:58 AM (VE6XX)

228 Trick - READ YOUR HOA DOCS BEFORE BUYING.

I did this, and also did a ride-around the neighborhood before I signed the contract. It was Christmastime, and when I saw there was an eclectic array of decor, I figured this HOA is not really too control-freaky. Also, everyone had a different mailbox.

Posted by: kallisto at September 10, 2025 11:58 AM (dCxaZ)

229 everybody t disclose their PIN number. "

One, two, three, four, five...

Posted by: man at September 10, 2025 11:59 AM (tubbA)

230 216 Trick - READ YOUR HOA DOCS BEFORE BUYING. Some HOAs are very powerful, some are not. Some are wonderful for communities and are easy for homeowners to help out with, some are not. Some have limits on what they can charge per year, some do not (buy into the one limited to the published inflation rate - it's been a godsend for me)...

Posted by: Nova Local

The problem is that often HOAs themselves ignore their contractual obligations and limitations and the property management companies are essentially rent seeking organizations--their client is the HOA, not the homeowner--this leads to homeowners being disadvantaged in any showdown.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 11:56 AM (WDjG6)

Yeah, not in VA. My community had one legal showdown since I've been here. Homeowners won b/c of the documents.

Posted by: Nova Local at September 10, 2025 11:59 AM (tOcjL)

231 HOA wars... Started they have....

Posted by: It's me donna at September 10, 2025 11:59 AM (VE6XX)

232 You are clearly a mega-Karen who enjoys crushing your neighbors under your boot heel. There is no other possible explanation.

yes and also finagling ways to expropriate my neighbors property.

it's in my DNA

Posted by: kallisto at September 10, 2025 11:59 AM (dCxaZ)

233 Karen moves in. Becomes head of hoa. Uses petty bullshit to settle scores. Sure, you can point to the rules and maybe sue. Meanwhile you have to deal with a karen. It happens. Hope it doesnt happen to you.

Posted by: Lawyer much at September 10, 2025 11:57 AM (9k8+1)

So you go to a board meeting and unelect Karen. Trust me, we've done that here. We had a parking Karen. She didn't last.

Posted by: Nova Local at September 10, 2025 12:00 PM (tOcjL)

234 Because they use the courts of a state to enforce contract provisions. So, the state can say what is allowable just like they can for any other contract.
Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 11:54 AM (WDjG6)

I am wondering about that "forever and ever because" contract that a new purchaser has to agree to. Most forced contracts like non-competes have a reasonable period of enforcement. I can see the edges of arguments for both sides, including the informal "AYFKM?" review

Posted by: Kindltot at September 10, 2025 12:00 PM (rbvCR)

235 everybody t disclose their PIN number. "

One, two, three, four, five...
Posted by: man at September 10, 2025 11:59 AM

That's the kind of thing an idiot would have on his luggage!

Posted by: Dark Helmet at September 10, 2025 12:00 PM (ySpAZ)

236 Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 11:54 AM (WDjG6)

I don’t understand your point. If a developer buys land shouldn’t they be able to do with it as they want. That’s the anti HOA people’s argument.

And where are you supposed to have contracts enforced if not the state courts?

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 12:00 PM (EYmYM)

237 195 106 HOAs are good for trash collection, snow plowing, and maintaining playgrounds.

Also, ours does some pretty nice landscaping.

Posted by: Bulg
---------------

That's what city taxes are for.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at September 10, 2025 12:00 PM (Ri+6K)

238 A Karen wouldn't do that.
Posted by: rickb223
======
You would be wrong. I've read the lawsuits--basically HOA Karens ignore the law just as much as city employees. The difference is that it is much more difficult to rectify HOA Karen abuses in court.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 12:00 PM (WDjG6)

239 There's no reason it shouldn't be cost-effective and widely used by now in coastal states with water issues.
Posted by: The Lower Depths at September 10, 2025 11:12 AM (Dg7ng)

And, if Trump keeps arresting illegals and such, they should have no shortage of salty water from liberal tears.

Posted by: GWB at September 10, 2025 12:00 PM (RTQn+)

240 our current dues are a very reasonable 30 bucks/month.

For a while, our HOA had a contract with Mutual of Omaha. We paid them, they paid the HOA. Fast forward a few years and a minority owned HOA took over and quickly got rid of the account. By the next month, they were losing my checks and threatening us.

When my wife and I went hunting, I told my real estate agent "You can find the most perfect house that meets our needs and is 100k lower than what we are ready to spend. If there is an HOA do not waste our time."

Posted by: NR Pax at September 10, 2025 12:00 PM (BpO1e)

241 Before we moved, our city code nazi would drive up & down the alleys and stand in the bed of his truck to look over 6' privacy fences. Got a neighbor who had four tires (mounted on rims, not mosquitoe breeding pools) leaned up against his garage. Nice little ticket.

A Karen wouldn't do that.

People are elected to serve in my HOA. If you're such an obnoxious twit and exceed your mandate, it's unlikely you'll be reelected.

Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 12:00 PM (Riz8t)

242 >>Karen moves in. Becomes head of hoa. Uses petty bullshit to settle scores. Sure, you can point to the rules and maybe sue. Meanwhile you have to deal with a karen. It happens. Hope it doesnt happen to you.

I live in a small town and some of the residents have been here for generations. When I bought most were very welcoming. My neighbor that lives behind me told me there was only one rule, don't try to change things. We like it this way and presumably you do too or you wouldn't have bought here. Got it.

Beware the new arrivals with big ideas. Like the woman who marries her dream husband if only she could change him.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 10, 2025 12:00 PM (viF8m)

243 HOA wars... Started they have...."

Oh, waiting for the Frank Frazzetta artwork...

Posted by: man at September 10, 2025 12:01 PM (tubbA)

244 A developer buys the land, develops it, and sells it.
That should be the end of the developer.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at September 10, 2025 12:01 PM (Ri+6K)

245 Yeah, not in VA. My community had one legal showdown since I've been here. Homeowners won b/c of the documents.

Same.

Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 12:02 PM (Riz8t)

246 Our HOA has been pretty chill, except for the fact that my house is directly across the street from the former President's house. And his wife once left a nastygram on my car windshield, anonymously, listing all the stuff I needed to do on my property.

well I did not take that too lightly.
I wrote a letter, copied everyone on the Board and asked them why they are leaving anonymous letters, not on Board letterhead on my car??

of course that elicited profuse apologies and then never ever was I bothered by them again.

Posted by: kallisto at September 10, 2025 12:02 PM (dCxaZ)

247 I don’t understand your point. If a developer buys land shouldn’t they be able to do with it as they want. That’s the anti HOA people’s argument.

And where are you supposed to have contracts enforced if not the state courts?
Posted by: polynikes

Long line of states limiting the applicability of contracts due to various reasons by statute or by court decisions. What I am saying is you can have an HOA if you want but that does not mean that the state cannot set pretty stiff statutory and regulatory requirements to prevent HOA and property management abuses of residents.

No less than states can regulate rental units and the conditions of leasing.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 12:02 PM (WDjG6)

248 That's the kind of thing an idiot would have on his luggage!"

And balance has been returned to the universe...

Now, back to your regularly scheduled arguments.

Posted by: man at September 10, 2025 12:03 PM (tubbA)

249 Oh, hey. Greta's Mystery Tour boat apparently caught fire again.

Posted by: Kindltot at September 10, 2025 12:03 PM (rbvCR)

250 That's the kind of thing an idiot would have on his luggage!"

And balance has been returned to the universe...

Now, back to your regularly scheduled arguments.
Posted by: man at September 10, 2025 12:03 PM

I do my best.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at September 10, 2025 12:03 PM (ySpAZ)

251 Karen moves in. Becomes head of hoa. Uses petty bullshit to settle scores. Sure, you can point to the rules and maybe sue. Meanwhile you have to deal with a karen. It happens. Hope it doesnt happen to you.

Posted by: Lawyer much

Much easier to park your ass on 100 acres and tell everyone to piss off.

The peace is invaluable.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 10, 2025 12:04 PM (IB/6k)

252 Yeah, not in VA. My community had one legal showdown since I've been here. Homeowners won b/c of the documents.

Same.
Posted by: Archimedes
==
Its obvs a small sample size but that a lot of people who admit having conflicts qith HOA or having to get on biard to manage the problem. Which suggests you hoa people are rationalizing a sunk cost. Sad.

Posted by: Lawyer much at September 10, 2025 12:04 PM (9k8+1)

253 They fly drones over properties here looking for infractions like illegal dwellings and garbage in yards....

You could probably contract with the Russians to do it cheap.
Posted by: Archimedes

Or foster redtail hawks (read feed) in your area to defend 'their' sky!

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 10, 2025 12:05 PM (EeepC)

254 rickb223, Amen.

Posted by: Ben Had at September 10, 2025 12:05 PM (mFSH6)

255 Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 12:02 PM (WDjG6)

I don’t have a problem with that but the debate was that the requirement to have to be a member of the HOA in order to buy the house was an affront to their FREEDOM OF CHOICE !!

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 12:05 PM (EYmYM)

256 rickb223, Amen.

Posted by: Ben Had at September 10, 2025 12:05 PM (mFSH6)

Yep. Soon.

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at September 10, 2025 12:05 PM (i24o9)

257 Speaking of Karens, has the Phillies baseball Karen been IDed yet?

Posted by: Gimme That Ball! at September 10, 2025 12:05 PM (oftw2)

258 249 Oh, hey. Greta's Mystery Tour boat apparently caught fire again.
Posted by: Kindltot
--------------

One must be careful when freebasing cocaine.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at September 10, 2025 12:06 PM (Ri+6K)

259 People are elected to serve in my HOA. If you're such an obnoxious twit and exceed your mandate, it's unlikely you'll be reelected.
Posted by: Archimedes
======
HOAs have problems with turnout, election rules, and all the other assorted problems with local elections. And boards have a big friend--property management corporations that usually manage multiple different HOAs, have permanent legal staff, and other such things that an ordinary homeowner does not.

Essentially HOAs are a public/private business but often with far less regulation due to the idea of contractual relationships. In reality, those contracts are often about as one sided as software click through contracts.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 12:06 PM (WDjG6)

260 property is bought for private enjoyment

not preservation of your property values and lawn care

Posted by: yoeman at September 10, 2025 12:06 PM (EikKE)

261 Speaking of Karens, has the Phillies baseball Karen been IDed yet?
==
Shes the head of my HOA.

Posted by: Beisbol at September 10, 2025 12:06 PM (9k8+1)

262
When I lived in Ohio, we had a couple of acres with no restrictions. Some guy from Cincinnati bought a second house in the area and convinced the township to adopt a pile of non-grandfathered restrictions. The subsequent township meeting was, to say the least, spirited. Proposals abandoned.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 10, 2025 12:09 PM (kkTda)

263 I don’t have a problem with that but the debate was that the requirement to have to be a member of the HOA in order to buy the house was an affront to their FREEDOM OF CHOICE !!
Posted by: polynikes
------
I can actually see where TJM is coming from. The major limit on any group tyranny is the ability to opt out. The very nature of teh HOA is to enforce its agreement so that it puts a person buying into such property as more like a medieval tenant than an owner. You only substitute the HOA for the lord above you.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 12:09 PM (WDjG6)

264 That's what city taxes are for.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at September 10, 2025 12:00 PM (Ri+6K)

Don't be silly, everyone knows city taxes are for putting on Pride parades, flower baskets, paying off the bond that built the brutalist city hall and funding the retirement of senior city workers.

Posted by: Kindltot at September 10, 2025 12:09 PM (rbvCR)

265 Buddy's lawyer friend parked his RV in the driveway. HOA decided that was no good. They back and forthed in court for three years.
Of course he defended himself while HOA paid a lawyer.
Finally he won which also bankrupted and dissolved the HOA.
Then, he moved.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at September 10, 2025 12:10 PM (Ri+6K)

266 257 Speaking of Karens, has the Phillies baseball Karen been IDed yet?
Posted by: Gimme That Ball!

To the best of my knowledge, not yet. Which is very impressive.

Posted by: NR Pax at September 10, 2025 12:11 PM (BpO1e)

267
Desalination... Santa Barbara is not connected to the Norcal water supply. SB built a desalination plant. Then there were a couple of years of good rainfall levels. The plant had to be operated to keep it functional which cost $$$. SSSSB sold the plant to the Saudis. Now SB is looking into building a desalination plant... again.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 10, 2025 11:35 AM (EeepC)

The way that worked out as I remember it when I lived there, SB built the desal plant during a 3-4 year drought, and the year it was completed, the drought broke with record rainfall. They shut down the plant since they didn't need water, and more importantly, they sold off all of the membrane filters/supplies to the Saudis in order to put cash into the city bank account.

Then CA had another drought and SB spent more in adjusted dollars to re-equip and refurbish the plant than they'd originally spent to build it in the first place. And it was a 3-4 year timeline to get the plant rebuilt.

Rinse/repeat. I think they're coming up on a 4th cycle of refurbish/shutting down, made even more expensive by CA shutting down the Diablo Canyon nuke plant and it's never been in full production.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 10, 2025 12:11 PM (y9nCu)

268
As the buzz was yesterday, NASA just announced the "clearest sign of life on Mars" at a press conference. Sean Duffy was there.

https://tinyurl.com/2bz8umc2

Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at September 10, 2025 12:11 PM (w6EFb)

269 OT and from the WP:
{i}...on Mars, NASA’s Perseverance rover came upon some rocks with peculiar green, blue, black and white dots. After detailed image analysis, scientists have come to a potentially encouraging conclusion: If those speckled rocks were formed like they are on Earth, they might be evidence of past life on the dusty planet.

Potentially...
If...
Might...

Dang. Don't ya just love hard science?

Posted by: Diogenes at September 10, 2025 12:11 PM (2WIwB)

270 Don't be silly, everyone knows city taxes are for putting on Pride parades, flower baskets, paying off the bond that built the brutalist city hall and funding the retirement of senior city workers.
Posted by: Kindltot

And those rainbow crosswalks don't paint themselves!

Posted by: Sherwin-Williams-Cover The Earth (and Seas) at September 10, 2025 12:11 PM (oftw2)

271 PIN number

*********

...and don't even get me started on what the HOA association wanted to do about our hoot water heater!!

Posted by: muldoon at September 10, 2025 12:12 PM (/iMjX)

272 I lived in a place with a HOA once. I don’t have a lot of choices as it was close to my TDY. Busybody HOA lady went to work right away. I couldn’t hang my flag here. Couldn’t put my trash can there. Every day this lunatic was knocking on my door. I had enough and so one day I came to the door with Mr Winky in full view. That was the end of her knocking.

Posted by: Vengeance at September 10, 2025 12:12 PM (BtTPD)

273 Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 12:09 PM (WDjG6

Allowing people to opt out of an HOA renders the HOA useless. You can’t have people contracting their own trash and sewer services, or security personnel or opt out of common area liability exposure, etc etc. Your choice is not to buy a house in an HOA community.

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 12:13 PM (EYmYM)

274 I can actually see where TJM is coming from. The major limit on any group tyranny is the ability to opt out. The very nature of teh HOA is to enforce its agreement so that it puts a person buying into such property as more like a medieval tenant than an owner. You only substitute the HOA for the lord above you.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 12:09 PM (WDjG6)

Caveat emptor. You know you are buying the house and the HOA. You are not required to buy that house vs another, so no harm to you.

It's like saying you want to buy a new car, but you want them to take out half the preinstalled components and not charge you b/c you'd rather do some of them your own way with your own parts.

Posted by: Nova Local at September 10, 2025 12:13 PM (tOcjL)

275 258 249 Oh, hey. Greta's Mystery Tour boat apparently caught fire again.
Posted by: Kindltot
--------------
One must be careful when freebasing cocaine.
Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at September 10, 2025 12:06 PM (Ri+6K)

Much hilarity has ensued - one of Greta's pals put out this video where he swore he saw a drone hovering above their boat, and then he saw it drop a grenade or something on their deck starting the fire. Meanwhile, one of the others on the boat who obviously had not gotten the message, posted a video of one of the goofballs on the boat shooting a flaregun without knowing what he was doing and setting the boat on fire with it.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 10, 2025 12:13 PM (uWKK8)

276 The problem is the choice to opt out of HOAs is becoming increasingly limited since the vast majority of new builds come with HOAs.

When you throw in the school question, it limits it even further.

The HOA doesn't own my home. I do. I never voted to join the HOA. It should not be assumed that I join the HOA when I move in.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:34 AM (GBKbO)

Live rural. No HOA's. And you can park your RV or your 18-wheeler at home, as the Lord intended.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at September 10, 2025 12:13 PM (m2qNJ)

277 You buy a house.
You want to paint your house.
You must paint your house the color they allow you.
It's not your house.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at September 10, 2025 12:14 PM (Ri+6K)

278 The problem with HOA's is a reflection of the problem within our political system. The trouble usually isn't the HOA, it is the people who sit on the administrative board.

While most members, over time, are just trying to make a contribution to the community, like all volunteer committees it attracts the ego-driven who are certain that they can 'make things better', and that is when things go off the rails.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 10, 2025 12:14 PM (XeU6L)

279 I had enough and so one day I came to the door with Mr Winky in full view. That was the end of her knocking.

it was the end of her knocking but the beginning of the sexting

Posted by: kallisto at September 10, 2025 12:14 PM (dCxaZ)

280 Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at September 10, 2025 12:10 PM (Ri+6K)

What a hero.

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 12:14 PM (EYmYM)

281 Dang. Don't ya just love hard science?
Posted by: Diogenes

*********

"Science is hard!"

/Malibu Barbie

Posted by: muldoon at September 10, 2025 12:15 PM (/iMjX)

282 >> it was the end of her knocking but the beginning of the sexting
Posted by: kallisto at September 10, 2025 12:14 PM (dCxaZ)

She was a real life childless cat lady. So it was probably the first time she saw Mr Winky in person. They started by putting letters in my mailbox which I use as fire starter. So I guess the Good Idea Fairy told her knocking was a good option.

Posted by: Vengeance at September 10, 2025 12:15 PM (BtTPD)

283 I had enough and so one day I came to the door with Mr Winky in full view. That was the end of her knocking.

it was the end of her knocking but the beginning of the sexting
Posted by: kallisto at September 10, 2025 12:14 PM (dCxaZ)
___

And the MeToo sex harassment lawsuit ....

Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025 12:16 PM (iFTx/)

284 We live in condos with an HOA. Some retired lady bought one earlier this year and said she always wanted to live in this location. So she said she moving here after her husband died.

A few months later I saw some guy walk out of her condo with a garbage bag and he asked me where the garbage goes. The retired lady was renting the place out as an AirBnB. The HOA rules specifically stated that any rental must be approved by the board and for at least six months.

I didn’t mind at all ratting her out. Frankly put I don’t want people that I don’t know staying a couple of doors down from my personal residence.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at September 10, 2025 12:16 PM (Vh9CX)

285 Was Decarlos Brown a MKUltra experiment?
x.com/RichardHanania/status/1965781518703624524

Posted by: gKWVE at September 10, 2025 12:16 PM (gKWVE)

286 My HOA is pretty low key.
I'm one of the remaining original buyers in my 'hood and if things start to drift off keel a bit, I just remind the others that the purpose of the CCRs is to make sure no one neighbor does something on their property that will clearly detract from the value of the neighbor's, and the neighborhood's value. For example, repainting in hot pink. Cars up on blocks for months on end, etc.

Posted by: Diogenes at September 10, 2025 12:18 PM (2WIwB)

287 Buddy's lawyer friend parked his RV in the driveway. HOA decided that was no good. They back and forthed in court for three years.
Of course he defended himself while HOA paid a lawyer.
Finally he won which also bankrupted and dissolved the HOA.
Then, he moved.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at September 10, 2025 12:10 PM (Ri+6K)

Excellent.

People in a prior HOA wanted to bar a guy from parking his electrical work shop van in his driveway, and I killed the proposal. He could have parked it on the street, and the HOA would have had no recourse. Some people are Karens and have nothing better to do with their time than exert whatever little power they can over others for whatever petty reason.

Sad creatures, to be sure.

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at September 10, 2025 12:18 PM (i24o9)

288 I am wondering about that "forever and ever because" contract that a new purchaser has to agree to. Most forced contracts like non-competes have a reasonable period of enforcement. I can see the edges of arguments for both sides, including the informal "AYFKM?" review
Posted by: Kindltot

State contract law varies tremendously from state to state--for example, Hawaii use to forbid contracts for an immoral purpose. And then you get a variation in judges within states settling concrete cases involving HOAs. Country judges are far more likely to tell HOAs to piss off especially when pestering neighbors of the newcoming HOA with preexisting use of property.

Surburban judges might not rule that way using some sort of balancing act.

Way back when, I spent some time with the state agency that dealt with HOAs in my state--their records of HOAs were frankly a mess ( I was looking into mandated service delivery agreements in local government which is how I stumbled across it).

So in many states with a strong Chamber of Commerce/developer lobby, states do almost nothing to curb in HOA excesses--it is all on the individuals challenging their HOA in court.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 12:18 PM (WDjG6)

289 Sorry, its all fun and games hating on HOAs until the guy buys the house across the street from you and brings his 18-wheel truck home every night and parks it on the curb. Or the senior citizens at the entrance to the neighborhood park their RV in the driveway for a year at a time as all 4 tires slowly go flat. Some people want there to be rules for maintaining property values, and there has to be a mechanism in place to do that.
Posted by: Crusader, Realtor at September 10, 2025 11:28 AM (TN0g+)

Our township already has zoning laws preventing that crap. That's why HOAs are not very common here.

Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy at September 10, 2025 12:18 PM (5xuJ/)

290 >>I didn’t mind at all ratting her out. Frankly put I don’t want people that I don’t know staying a couple of doors down from my personal residence.

How well do you really know your neighbors? Some, like Muldoon, have crawl spaces. And we know what that means.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 10, 2025 12:19 PM (viF8m)

291 I can actually see where TJM is coming from. The major limit on any group tyranny is the ability to opt out.

Tell us about it.

Posted by: The Confederacy at September 10, 2025 12:19 PM (SSEhk)

292 I just got a jury summons. I'm irked.

Posted by: Lady in Black at September 10, 2025 12:19 PM (qBdHI)

293 We had abatement in our prior house but it flooded every time it rained. Installing an automatic sump pump eliminated that problem. We don't have abatement in our current house, just a crawlspace.

Posted by: muldoon at September 10, 2025 11:30 AM (/iMjX)

*********

This comment is funnier if you read it in Eddie Murphy's voice.

Posted by: muldoon at September 10, 2025 11:33 AM (/iMjX)

--------------

If Joe Biden had been a plantation owner in the alAntebellum South, you would have been chained to the radiator in the masterbatement.

Posted by: ShainS -- Overt Treason Is Now The Highest Form Of 'Patriotism' at September 10, 2025 12:19 PM (rlqxO)

294 281 Dang. Don't ya just love hard science?
Posted by: Diogenes

*********

"Science is hard!"

/Malibu Barbie

The combination of these minerals, which appear to have formed by electron-transfer reactions between the sediment and organic matter, is a potential fingerprint for microbial life, which would use these reactions to produce energy for growth. The minerals also can be generated abiotically, or without the presence of life.

Well, that settles that. The science is in.

Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 12:19 PM (Riz8t)

295 As the buzz was yesterday, NASA just announced the "clearest sign of life on Mars" at a press conference. Sean Duffy was there.

How did Sean Duffy get to Mars?

Posted by: rickb223 at September 10, 2025 12:19 PM (IB/6k)

296 Dang. Don't ya just love hard science?
Posted by: Diogenes at September 10, 2025 12:11 PM

Sexually!

Posted by: Lefty with a t-shirt slogan at September 10, 2025 12:19 PM (ySpAZ)

297 We just live in a nice rooming house and pay Mr. Fields weekly. Nice neighbors like Hillary Brooke and Mike the Cop. Mr. Bacciagalupe can be excitable, but he's OK. Stinky, though, is a little creep. The pay phone in the hallway keeps us connected.

Posted by: Bud and Lou at September 10, 2025 12:19 PM (oftw2)

298 [Take 2:] If Joe Biden had been a plantation owner in the Antebellum South, HE would have been chained to the radiator in the masterbatement.

Posted by: ShainS -- Overt Treason Is Now The Highest Form Of 'Patriotism' at September 10, 2025 12:20 PM (rlqxO)

299 The Charlotte Stabber needs a nice house in California.

Posted by: Field Marshal Zhukov at September 10, 2025 12:20 PM (wBaIH)

300 We have one project going in that is mixed "low income" and normal semi high end homes. The way the HOA is set up the developer of the "low income" has 160 votes and the homeowners have 120. So one stupid, gross apartment complex is going to control the entire neighborhood.
$700,000 houses controled by section 8 grifters.

Posted by: Reforger at September 10, 2025 12:20 PM (9KZ8S)

301
What this is evidence of *ancient* (ie billions of years ago) microbial action on Mars, way back when it was wet and warmer.

They've found some stuff in the rocks, the chemical makeup of which as far as current knowledge goes, can only occur as a result of microbial activity.

Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at September 10, 2025 12:21 PM (w6EFb)

302 They're building a shit ton of new housing where I live- apartment buildings, tract housing, etc., all in the name of "affordable housing." Problem is, the people that need affordable housing can't afford them, so the "affordable housing" thing is just a fig leaf.

Posted by: Ex Rex Reeder at September 10, 2025 12:21 PM (MZ+PY)

303 A few months later I saw some guy walk out of her condo with a garbage bag and he asked me where the garbage goes. The retired lady was renting the place out as an AirBnB. The HOA rules specifically stated that any rental must be approved by the board and for at least six months.

I didn’t mind at all ratting her out. Frankly put I don’t want people that I don’t know staying a couple of doors down from my personal residence.
Posted by: MAGA_Ken at September 10, 2025 12:16 PM (Vh9CX)
_

Most co-ops and condos already had rules prohibiting short-term rentals and/or any tenants at all without board approval. But once AirBNB launched, every building quickly adopted them. Nobody wants unvetted randos moving in and out of apartments in their building.

The anti-AirBNB rules have also been adopted in housing developments. People do not want endless streams of randos staying at properties next to them. In some cases, the land-use people got involved, as some of these AirBNBs were essentially commercial hotels operating in residential areas.

Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025 12:21 PM (iFTx/)

304 The ghost tax exists in other forms. Where I live owner occupied residences pay much lower taxes vs investment properties or 2nd homes. And it applies whether the property is vacant or not.

Meanwhile the city council is whining about lack of “affordable housing”. Uhm hey guys how about lowering property tax on rentals? Ya think that may increase affordability for renters? Or nah.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at September 10, 2025 12:21 PM (66jKa)

305 Posted by: Reforger at September 10, 2025 12:20 PM (9KZ8S)

What retarded person who can afford a base 700k home buy in that community?

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 12:21 PM (EYmYM)

306 It is a legal abomination that I cannot choose to buy the house and not join the HOA.

If I can't opt out of the HOA, then the HOA actually owns the house.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, in a world of gods and monsters with James Whale at September 10, 2025 11:42 AM (GBKbO)

is this a gated community or something similar ?

Posted by: runner at September 10, 2025 12:22 PM (g47mK)

307 One thing, maybe worse than an HOA, is when a coven of Karens takes over government in a small town. I saw this in a little Arizona burg I would RON in from time to time. A bunch of snowbirds finally settled in for the duration and brought in their idiocy from where they came. The locals, not used to stuff like voting regularly, were caught with their pants down.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at September 10, 2025 12:22 PM (gm9Sb)

308 didn’t mind at all ratting her out. Frankly put I don’t want people that I don’t know staying a couple of doors down from my personal residence.
Posted by: MAGA_
==
There is nothing quite as repressive as living in a village. Makes me want to rewatch HOT FUZZ.

Posted by: Beisbol at September 10, 2025 12:22 PM (9k8+1)

309 They've found some stuff in the rocks, the chemical makeup of which as far as current knowledge goes, can only occur as a result of microbial activity.

See my #294.

Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 12:22 PM (Riz8t)

310 And while HOA and condo boards get a bad rap, they serve useful purposes in policing idiots and ensuring a calm and uniform look for the community. Nobody wants to live next to the loudmouth idiot blasting shit music while working on his rusted out Camaro sitting on the front lawn on cinder blocks. Without HOA, that's what you'll get.

I suggest that anyone thinking of buying fully read and understand the applicable rules and regs before they buy.
Posted by: Elric The Blade

I take it you've never seen what a city code enforcement nazi can do. HOAs don't come close.
Posted by: rickb223 at September 10, 2025 11:46 AM (IB/6k)

Why would any sane person want to live in a house that looks exactly like the houses on either side of it? Makes a
"community" look like a concentration camp. I see neighborhoods like that all around the perimeter of Calgary, mile upon mile of them. I give them generic name, "Bleakview".

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at September 10, 2025 12:22 PM (u/tSt)

311 .
NOOD

Ace is up.

NOOD!

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at September 10, 2025 12:22 PM (O7YUW)

312 New one: Irina

Posted by: Archimedes at September 10, 2025 12:23 PM (Riz8t)

313 A friend sent me this essay by Vox Day entitled "We Never Went to the Moon."

https://is.gd/jsPLTH

/So then we've never gone to Mars?

Posted by: ShainS -- Overt Treason Is Now The Highest Form Of 'Patriotism' at September 10, 2025 12:24 PM (rlqxO)

314 You buy a house.
You want to paint your house.
You must paint your house the color they allow you.
It's not your house.
-----

So you're good if the neighbor next door decides to paint his house pink, or teal, or alternating strips of pink and then teal? Or might that reflect poorly on property values?

Posted by: Crusader, Realtor at September 10, 2025 12:24 PM (TN0g+)

315 Caveat emptor. You know you are buying the house and the HOA. You are not required to buy that house vs another, so no harm to you.

It's like saying you want to buy a new car, but you want them to take out half the preinstalled components and not charge you b/c you'd rather do some of them your own way with your own parts.
Posted by: Nova Local
========
You obviously love your HOA. Does not mean that others do nor the general concept. Essentially you do not 'own' your property in the sense of the ancient freehold--what you do is submit to private regulation by a superior instead of a general government.

Which is exactly like old feudal law was in Merrie Olde England. You could probably substitute property disputes between lord and tenant for today's HOA with just slight modifications.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 12:24 PM (WDjG6)

316 302 They're building a shit ton of new housing where I live- apartment buildings, tract housing, etc., all in the name of "affordable housing." Problem is, the people that need affordable housing can't afford them, so the "affordable housing" thing is just a fig leaf.
Posted by: Ex Rex Reeder at September 10, 2025 12:21 PM (MZ+PY)

All the housing going up around me is 55+.

I am not 55+.

Posted by: XTC at September 10, 2025 12:25 PM (UnA8+)

317 What retarded person who can afford a base 700k home buy in that community?
Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 12:21 PM (EYmYM)

I have no idea but they have a waiting list. Sold the minute they pass inspection.

Posted by: Reforger at September 10, 2025 12:25 PM (9KZ8S)

318 So you're good if the neighbor next door decides to paint his house pink, or teal, or alternating strips of pink and then teal? Or might that reflect poorly on property values?
Posted by: Crusader
========
So your community property values triumph over personal choice of the individual? That is the same logic Karens used during Covid to force vaxxes on the unwilling.

Really sure that is your best point?

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 12:26 PM (WDjG6)

319 Allowing people to opt out of an HOA renders the HOA useless. You can’t have people contracting their own trash and sewer services, or security personnel or opt out of common area liability exposure, etc etc. Your choice is not to buy a house in an HOA community.
Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 12:13 PM (EYmYM)

You are conflating city or net services with HOA rules. In a non-HOA the sewer, water and security is handled with local companies who own the infrastructure, or wiht the county. An HOA just puts another layer of bureacracy in the way. If the HOA owns the water and sewer then they are a utility district or co-op, and pretending to be a covenant is icing on the cake.

On the other hand you seem to be trying to cast people who are arguing they have the right to landscape and use their personal land as they see fit without fighting with someone who neither pays the taxes or benefits from it as Sovereign Citizens or other type of lunatics, which I think damages your argument

Posted by: Kindltot at September 10, 2025 12:26 PM (rbvCR)

320 The anti-AirBNB rules have also been adopted in housing developments. People do not want endless streams of randos staying at properties next to them. In some cases, the land-use people got involved, as some of these AirBNBs were essentially commercial hotels operating in residential areas.
Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025 12:21 PM (iFTx/)

———

My son lives in an “apartment” in Charlotte. It’s really a 4 bedroom house in a subdivision that someone converted to a 10 bedroom. There are cars parked all over the place in front of the house. Someone ratted them out and the city came by and said only 6 people can live there because it’s a single family dwelling. Talk about giving them a break. There’s TJM’s laws and regulations. I’d be pissed if I lived across the street from that.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at September 10, 2025 12:26 PM (Vh9CX)

321 Nobody wants to live next to the loudmouth idiot blasting shit music while working on his rusted out Camaro sitting on the front lawn on cinder blocks.
——

Compared to a left wing HOA Nazi Twink with a non-binary furry?

Hm. Decisions decisions

Posted by: Common Tater at September 10, 2025 12:27 PM (GC8wC)

322 All the housing going up around me is 55+.

I am not 55+.
Posted by: XTC
=======
All those properties come with a time bomb. Eventually mom and pop depart this plane of life and the new owners will find out they not able to live there or rent it to whom they choose. Builders do it because generally they can pack more density in such developments and it does not create the as many problems with packed schools, roads, etc.

Different than 55+ apartments which were originally the focus of such.

Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 12:29 PM (WDjG6)

323 One thing, maybe worse than an HOA, is when a coven of Karens takes over government in a small town. I saw this in a little Arizona burg I would RON in from time to time. A bunch of snowbirds finally settled in for the duration and brought in their idiocy from where they came. The locals, not used to stuff like voting regularly, were caught with their pants down.

Posted by: bill in arkansas
---------

Same here. Big time. Our town is gone.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 10, 2025 12:29 PM (XeU6L)

324 So you're good if the neighbor next door decides to paint his house pink, or teal, or alternating strips of pink and then teal? Or might that reflect poorly on property values
=
As long as its not noisy after hours or dangerous i dont care. Stupid decisions effect his property value more than mine. Odds of a candy striped house are quite low as a result.

Posted by: Beisbol at September 10, 2025 12:29 PM (9k8+1)

325 The anti-AirBNB rules have also been adopted in housing developments. People do not want endless streams of randos staying at properties next to them. In some cases, the land-use people got involved, as some of these AirBNBs were essentially commercial hotels operating in residential areas.
Posted by: Elric The Blade at September 10, 2025

I have one on my street. It’s not bad. Small house, it’s almost always a family staying there. And the place is kept immaculate by the owners..plus between October and March it’s usually empty since that’s the down time for tourism.

I could see though a yuuuge issue if it was a duplex or triplex with all the units being rented out. Or something like that.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at September 10, 2025 12:29 PM (66jKa)

326 So your community property values triumph over personal choice of the individual? That is the same logic Karens used during Covid to force vaxxes on the unwilling.

Really sure that is your best point?
---------
Hyperbole much? Nobody is forcing you to wear the same t-shirt. What they are enforcing is that IF you choose to spend half a million dollars on an investment that some YAHOO can't buy the building next to yours and turn it in to a petting zoo/airbnb and paint the thing purple.

There's no relation to Covid rules at all--are you sure that's your best argument?

Posted by: Crusader, Realtor at September 10, 2025 12:30 PM (TN0g+)

327 Sounds good in theory but if you benefit from the HOA you should have to pay HOA dues and abide by the bylaws.

_-_-_

That's the logic they use for labor unions.

Posted by: Don in SoCo at September 10, 2025 12:33 PM (vd6bO)

328 We sold our home after property taxes increased 23.5% in just two years. Such taxes are confiscatory. We knew people whose taxes were greater than their original annual mortgage.

Posted by: WarEagle82 at September 10, 2025 12:33 PM (FDnWB)

329 you choose to spend half a million dollars on an investment that some YAHOO can't buy the building next to yours and turn it in to a petting zoo/airbnb and paint the thing purple.

==
Where do you live that has no zoning laws, yet is in an area that has a demand for AirBNB and petting zoos???

Posted by: Beisbol at September 10, 2025 12:34 PM (9k8+1)

330 knew people whose taxes were greater than their original annual mortgage.
=
In cleveland. My taxes insurance escrow payments are higher than mortgage payment.

Posted by: Beisbol at September 10, 2025 12:35 PM (9k8+1)

331 🚨 BREAKING: Democrats just blocked the passage of an Orange County California measure that would have removed "non-humans" from the voter rolls.

Uhh...WHY?!

Posted by: SMOD at September 10, 2025 12:41 PM (RHGPo)

332 The irony is 97.278% of all childless cat ladies are dogs

Posted by: SMOD at September 10, 2025 12:43 PM (RHGPo)

333 Re: HOAs: everyone commenting seems to live in settled areas. Our HOA is on a former ranch. There is no other guidance. I've been here over twenty-five years, and it's been pretty consistent, everyone wants it the way it is. Deer roam freely, sometimes with sand cranes wandering amongst them. Bears are pretty much only at night. Don't come over the crest of a hill at speed because there may be elk stretched out across the road.

We did have a confrontation with the town--they wanted to broaden the road from two lanes to four. Lots of retired lawyers in the HOA community reared and found a legal restriction nearly a century old. Whew. So my experience has been positive.

Posted by: Wenda at September 10, 2025 12:43 PM (GLegy)

334 That's the logic they use for labor unions.
Posted by: Don in SoCo at September 10, 2025 12:33 PM (vd6bO)

That’s the kind of illogical comparison the Left would use.

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 12:55 PM (EYmYM)

335 Posted by: whig at September 10, 2025 12:29 PM (WDjG6)

Again look at the contract in the 55+. The 55+ communities around me that have been around for 20+ years are thriving.

Posted by: polynikes at September 10, 2025 12:59 PM (EYmYM)

336 I live in an area with an HOA.

They manage the trash collection for the subdivision. They have a much better contract with the trash company than what is offered by the city or available to an individual household.

They also manage the landscaping of the common area - a small park which in former times would have been a responsibility of the city.

These seem like proper functions of the HOA to me. The dues and expenses are low.

This HOA bylaws are consistent with city ordinances and the management does not exceed them. Activist members of the HOA board ("the Karens") were driven out years ago.

I am OK with how things are working now.

Posted by: Engineer at September 10, 2025 01:00 PM (jGCIA)

337 The city slapped higher ‘affordability’ requirements on projects with 100 or more units, and construction workers on those buildings "will be guaranteed a minimum wage of $40 per hour."

Did you catch that part about 100 or more apartments and higher wages? Because developers certainly did. "There’s an unmistakable trend across New York City," Bloomberg reported today, "Real-estate developers are seeking to construct buildings with exactly 99 units. No more, no less."

The story continued: "In the past four quarters, 28 such permits were filed, more than double the total from the previous 16 years combined, according to city data analyzed by the Real Estate Board of New York, a lobbying group."

Posted by: SMOD at September 10, 2025 01:41 PM (RHGPo)

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