Gun Thread: First August Edition!

Howdy, Y'all! Welcome to the wondrously fabulous Gun Thread! As always, I want to thank all of our regulars for being here week in and week out, and also offer a bigly Gun Thread welcome to any newcomers who may be joining us tonight. Howdy and thank you for stopping by! I hope you find our wacky conversation on the subject of guns 'n shooting both enjoyable and informative. You are always welcome to lurk in the shadows of shame, but I'd like to invite you to jump into the conversation, say howdy, and tell us what kind of shooting you like to do!

Holy Shitballs! How in the ever-loving Hell did it get to be August? Is it all hot and melty where you are? It's been all hot and melty where I are, that's for sure. So hot and melty, in fact, that it's made even the thought of outside activity unthinkable. How about range time? Do you usually shoot indoors or outdoors? Please let us know in the comments how you manage your range time in the face of meteorological adversity.

With that, step into the dojo and let's get to the gun stuff below, shall we?

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FUNdamentals

*SIGH*

Clearly, my constantly haranguing 'you people' on the importance of focusing on fundamentals is having little effect on a core constituency of fundamentals deniers. What I would like to do tonight is invite your comments on how you have approached range practice and what has worked well for you. If that has been going to the range and doing the same random things over and over and achieving inconsistent or essentially no results at all, then please let us know. If you have worked out some sort of plan that allows the benefit of your practice to be cumulative with increasingly consistent results, then please let us know that too!

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The Sig P320 Saga Continues

Our pal hickok45 weighs in on the issue.

Also, shooting steel safely!

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Surrounded by a Mob?

The time to think about this is before it happens.

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Interpreting Service Damage in Navy Roller Bearings

More bearings!!

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Um... Ammunition Manufacture!

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Ax Weasel

Q: Weasel, what is the history of ice?
A: I'm glad you axed.

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Our Pal Dynamite

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FSJ and Gertie

We're working on our sharing skills.

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Highway Patrol

This week's episode: Credit Card

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The Alligator People!

Holy Crap!

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Musical Interlude

Here is George Thorogood with One Bourbon, One Scotch, One Beer. Weasel saw George and the DD's a couple of times in the early 80's. Always a good time!

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Cigar of the Week

080325 diogenes Hoyo de Monterrey scaled.jpg

This week our pal Diogenes scores again with this bigly excellent review of the The Hoyo de Monetrrey Le Hoyo

I hate communism and I hate communists. I have seen up close what it does to societies and individuals. As a consequence I have been a real snob when it comes to Cuban cigars. I cannot justify my money going to some commie asshole just for a smoke that, frankly, can be matched by good Dominican, Costa Rican, or even Mexican producers.
That said, I'll never turn down a free one and such was the case over the Fourth when I was in DC. I was offered a Hoyo de Monterrey Series Le Hoyo. I had just fired up one of my travel standbys so I tucked this gift away for later. Later was a few days ago.
Most of you who follow cigars and that industry know that many of the families from Cuba moved to other Latin American countries when Castro took over. But many kept an anchor presence on the island. And they continue to produce excellent tobacco and cigars. This Hoyo de Monetrrey is one such example.
Smooth, smooth, smooth. Almost creamy (which is a horrible adjective for any cigar) yet maintaining a strong tobacco aroma. Listed as a medium smoke, it offers rich and complex flavors that include slight peppery and leather influences. I found myself so wrapped up in the smoke that I almost forgot to analyze what I was tasting. Pure tobacco satisfaction. An even ash, easy to light, and just an absolute delight.
Damn commies.
And don't be fooled. Those bastards understand capitalism. These puppies aren't cheap and the price for a box includes a comma. Ouch!

Excellent, Diogenes! Thank you as always!

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Here are some different online cigar vendors. You will find they not only carry different brands and different lines from those brands, but also varying selections of vitolas (sizes/shapes) of given lines. It's good to have options, especially if you're looking for a specific cigar.

Cigarsinternational.com
Cigarpage.com
Famous-smoke.com
Cigarsdaily.com
Neptunecigar.com
Smallbatchcigar.com
Bobalu Cigar Company
Cigarbid.com
Nicks Cigar World New!

A note about sources. The brick & mortar/online divide exists with cigars, as with guns, and most consumer products, with respect to price. As with guns - since both are "persecuted industries", basically - I make a conscious effort to source at least some of my cigars from my local store(s). It's a small thing, but the brick & mortar segment for both guns and tobacco are precious, and worth supporting where you can. And if you're lucky enough to have a good cigar store/lounge available, they're often a good social event with many dangerous people of the sort who own scary gunz, or read smart military blogs like this one. -rhomboid

Anyone have others to include? Perhaps a small local roller who makes a cigar you like? Send me your recommendation and a link to the site!

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Ammo Link-O-Rama
I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop
American Elite Ammo
Lucky Gunner Ammo NEW!

***Mail Bag***

This week's mailbag entry is from our pal and cob emeritus Mis Hum. Speaks for itself!

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Please note the new and improved protonmail account gunthread at protonmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. Future expansion plans are in the works for the site Weasel Gun Thread. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

Posted by: Weasel at 07:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Girst

Posted by: Coelacanth at August 03, 2025 07:01 PM (vakLI)

2 Not grist.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at August 03, 2025 07:01 PM (0N4FZ)

3 I shalt noodify the foodies.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 03, 2025 07:02 PM (0sNs1)

4 Hello, Weasel!

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 07:02 PM (BCwQW)

5 Good afternoon.

Thanks again for the thread, weasel!

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 07:03 PM (tT6L1)

6 When direct fire won't do...

https://ifunny.co/tags/mortarcycle

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at August 03, 2025 07:03 PM (S/Y4j)

7 Our pal hickok45 weighs in on the issue.

When you've lost Hickok45 ...

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 03, 2025 07:03 PM (0sNs1)

8 Howdy!

Posted by: Puddleglum, drive by pew pew at August 03, 2025 07:04 PM (sAmhv)

9 Good Sunday evening, gub 'ettes and 'rons, and a special howdy to our host Weasel.

I talked a little about fundamentals in last Sunday's range report. Basically started off not doing them at all, with the expected bad (low 'n left) results I've come to expect. Then I worked on grip, smooth trigger pull, stance, breath control, and my accuracy at 7 yards became acceptable, but not yet great. I need to go back next weekend and work on "great"

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy (OT but harmless) at August 03, 2025 07:06 PM (v23vE)

10 Hello, folks of the Gub!

Posted by: RI Red at August 03, 2025 07:06 PM (7PD8l)

11 Clearly, my constantly haranguing 'you people' on the importance of focusing on fundamentals

Given you ~2 week lapse immediately post-retirement in haranguing us, can you really consider your usage of constantly as being constant with the meaning of constantly?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 03, 2025 07:07 PM (0sNs1)

12 She's right, you know.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 03, 2025 07:08 PM (0sNs1)

13 Thanks for the Gun Thread Weasel!

Posted by: DBCoooper at August 03, 2025 07:09 PM (FRYiK)

14 Hickok45 saying that he's relegating is P320/M17s to the safe supports my contention that SIG doesn't have an engineering problem anymore. It's now a bigger PR problem. Even if SIG was able to somehow re-engineer its striker system to fix the unintended discharge problem, who's going to trust that SIG has completely fixed all of the problems the P320 has or might have? That's before we start looking at how many pistols need fixing (hundreds of thousands at least, if you count the military contract guns).

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 07:10 PM (BCwQW)

15 Speaking of reasons to go to the range, it turns out that Sydney Sweeney is a definite Range Babe!
https://x.com/dom_lucre/status/1951777533034209323

Posted by: KCSteve at August 03, 2025 07:10 PM (bxAlI)

16 Ummm,
Is there a problem?

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at August 03, 2025 07:10 PM (/lPRQ)

17 Is it bad form if I watch "John Wick" while on the gun thread?

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 07:10 PM (tT6L1)

18 Sydney Sweeney was going to be my next attempt..

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at August 03, 2025 07:11 PM (/lPRQ)

19 Is it bad form if I watch "John Wick" while on the gun thread?
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 07:10 PM (tT6L1)

It would be if you ask Weasel to borrow his katana.

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at August 03, 2025 07:12 PM (S/Y4j)

20 Highway Patrol - the crooks told their initial victim what their MO is, two scenes into the episode. I expect that will redound to their detriment.

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy (OT but harmless) at August 03, 2025 07:12 PM (v23vE)

21 Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at August 03, 2025 07:10 PM (/lPRQ)
----
Not any more. You posted broken link and I deleted it and your subsequent comment.

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 07:12 PM (A44Mw)

22 Itinerant Alley Butcher at August 03, 2025 07:10 PM (/lPRQ)
----
Not any more. You posted broken link and I deleted it and your subsequent comment.
Posted by: Weasel
==

Got it. Thought I inadvertantly slurred cowgirl horseback action shooting. Fixed link is in nic.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at August 03, 2025 07:14 PM (/lPRQ)

23 Yay! Gubs!

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 03, 2025 07:14 PM (Wnv9h)

24 R. I. P. Loni Anderson. 😢

Posted by: rickb223 at August 03, 2025 07:16 PM (bDxU9)

25 SIG doesn't need to worry. This P320 business is all just being blown out of proportion and will soon be forgotten. Why, just look at how quickly our little problem with the Pinto went away.

Wait.

What?

Never mind.

Posted by: The Ford Motor Company at August 03, 2025 07:16 PM (Cukj+)

26 blake, I ascribe to John Wick fundamentals.

Posted by: Ben Had at August 03, 2025 07:16 PM (HFcKg)

27 Do fundamentals also include idiot behind the trigger caused malfunctions?

Because idiot behind the trigger malfunctions cost me yesterday.

Not that I would have taken a true first, because we had some phenomenal shooters show up for the match. But, still, it did cost me some points.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 07:17 PM (tT6L1)

28 Range report.

Brought the RMBS Mom to the range to start TxMoMe prep. For someone who hasn't shot in quite a while, she managed to do extremely well at 7 yards. In accordance with Weasel Doctrine, we focused on the fundamentals. I think she'll be ready for Corsicana.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 03, 2025 07:18 PM (Wnv9h)

29 I think Kickok states my position as well. I was slow to think that it could be a design/manufacturing problem because 1) Sig has (had?) a long reputation for quality and 2) user error is always the most likely suspect. But at some point, the weight of the evidence shifts and for me that point was the Air Force incident. Sig has now forfeited the benefit of the doubt especially with their reply basically calling all their detractors antigun shills.

Posted by: Oddbob at August 03, 2025 07:18 PM (/y8xj)

30 Brought the RMBS Mom to the range to start TxMoMe prep. For someone who hasn't shot in quite a while, she managed to do extremely well at 7 yards. In accordance with Weasel Doctrine, we focused on the fundamentals. I think she'll be ready for Corsicana.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 03, 2025 07:18 PM (Wnv9h)
-------------

Excellent. RMBS mom is a treasure.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 07:19 PM (tT6L1)

31 Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 03, 2025 07:18 PM (Wnv9h)
---
Always a pleasure having mom on the range!

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 07:20 PM (A44Mw)

32 The meme: "I told her guns make me feel uncomfortable"

The answer: What other holsters have you tried?

Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure at August 03, 2025 07:21 PM (KhyP1)

33 Blake, seconded. What a lovely lady.

Posted by: Ben Had at August 03, 2025 07:21 PM (HFcKg)

34 Excellent. RMBS mom is a treasure.
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 07:19 PM (tT6L1)

31 Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 03, 2025 07:18 PM (Wnv9h)
---
Always a pleasure having mom on the range!
Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 07:20 PM

We think she's a keeper. 😄

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 03, 2025 07:22 PM (Wnv9h)

35 The meme: "I told her guns make me feel uncomfortable"

Her reply, " I think we should both date other men".

Posted by: rickb223 at August 03, 2025 07:22 PM (bDxU9)

36 Sig has a checkered past with their handguns and QC. I bought a Sig 1911 Tac Pac back when and wrote up a review @ TTAG. One of the main people at TTAG had Sig 1911 which was virtually a clone of the one I had, and it malfunctioned constantly, whereas mine ran and runs perfectly.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 07:22 PM (tT6L1)

37 we focused on the fundamentals. I think she'll be ready for Corsicana.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState

Well done!

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 03, 2025 07:24 PM (Qde9E)

38 17 Is it bad form if I watch "John Wick" while on the gun thread?
-----------
Just don't kill Weasel's dogs.

Posted by: andycanuck at August 03, 2025 07:24 PM (2yoRf)

39 Netflix has another Korean 'John Wick' dubbed in English - "Trigger"
Evil Americans secretly distribute guns and ammo to various bullied Koreans who go postal.
The Korean 'John Wick', ex-mercenary now beat cop, has to go in and clean up the mess... In the end everyone feels bad, turns in their guns, and go back to gang fights with kitchen knives.

Definitely anti-gun agitprop, but entertaining with three or more gangs jockeying for control (on top of those bullied going postal).
I rate it 7/10. You can expect a second season.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at August 03, 2025 07:25 PM (/lPRQ)

40 24: did not know she was almost 80. RIP, Loni.

Posted by: Puddleglum, drive by pew pew at August 03, 2025 07:26 PM (sAmhv)

41 15 Speaking of reasons to go to the range, it turns out that Sydney Sweeney is a definite Range Babe!
https://x.com/dom_lucre/status/1951777533034209323 - KC Steve

That range is definitely hot!

Posted by: Paco at August 03, 2025 07:26 PM (mADJX)

42 From a couple of analyses I've studied, there are several problems with the P320. The first is the overall MCU frame, then the trigger bar, and last the slide/frame attachment.

Ignoring the redesign and manufacture of various components, the logistics of replacement (the FCU is the registered part of the weapon) are formidable.

Sig may well have screwed the pooch. I hope the contamination doesn't extend to the P365 family, but it's hard to see it not.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 03, 2025 07:26 PM (0sNs1)

43 Good evening Horde. Thanks Weasel.

We had a good range day today. Striving for both accuracy and consistency. More shots on target than wayward. When we were off, we weren't off by much. When were off, we stopped and diagnosed and adjusted with fundamentals in mind and found success. We did not introduce the stress of multiple shots or quick shots this visit. Need to get the basics nailed down first.

Unlike some other range visits in memory, the center of the target quaked in fear at our presence. Felt good. Fwiw, Grateful is a sniper with her Sig.

Posted by: TRex - fundies do pay off at August 03, 2025 07:27 PM (IQ6Gq)

44 The commies are passionately obsessed with money…when no one’s looking or they think no one is looking. In East Germany, EVERYTHING was for sale if it meant the SED getting hard currency. Just look at the office of “Commercial Coordination” sometime.

Posted by: Cow Demon at August 03, 2025 07:28 PM (vm8sq)

45 So, how long will it take to call M9's out of retirement and have them re-issued again to DOD? My local base security forces still have M17/M18's in their holsters (for now).

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 07:28 PM (BCwQW)

46 Still got my M18 close at hand. Looking at it as I type.

Posted by: Cow Demon at August 03, 2025 07:30 PM (vm8sq)

47 Thank you for the FSJ/Gerties sitrep, Weasel!

Wouldn't Cozy Caves be easier to share if they weren't stringing vertically?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 03, 2025 07:30 PM (0sNs1)

48 Sig has a checkered past with their handguns and QC. I bought a Sig 1911 Tac Pac back when and wrote up a review @ TTAG. One of the main people at TTAG had Sig 1911 which was virtually a clone of the one I had, and it malfunctioned constantly, whereas mine ran and runs perfectly.
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing

Sign must have sub-contracted manufacturing to Taurus.

Taurus* - Grab Bag Gun Prices - Grab Bag Quality.

* I have a Taurus 327. Other than a loose part falling off.. no problems.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at August 03, 2025 07:30 PM (/lPRQ)

49 Well, got almost to Delaware and got message not to go in tonight.

Posted by: Skip at August 03, 2025 07:30 PM (+qU29)

50 Thanks for the mob self defense video Weasel. Helpful explanation and reminders.

Posted by: TRex - IRAC is your friend at August 03, 2025 07:30 PM (IQ6Gq)

51 24: did not know she was almost 80. RIP, Loni.
Posted by: Puddleglum, drive by pew pew at August 03, 2025 07:26 PM (sAmhv)

I think only a couple of the "WKRP" cast are still with us today.

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 07:30 PM (BCwQW)

52 Speaking of reasons to go to the range, it turns out that Sydney Sweeney is a definite Range Babe!
https://x.com/dom_lucre/status/1951777533034209323 - KC Steve

That range is definitely hot!
Posted by: Paco

And a registered Republican.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 03, 2025 07:30 PM (bDxU9)

53 he first is the overall MCU frame

MCU should be FCU.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 03, 2025 07:31 PM (0sNs1)

54 Sig has a checkered past with their handguns and QC. I bought a Sig 1911 Tac Pac back when and wrote up a review @ TTAG. One of the main people at TTAG had Sig 1911 which was virtually a clone of the one I had, and it malfunctioned constantly, whereas mine ran and runs perfectly.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 07:22 PM

I bought a pair of Sig P365 XL's with the cut slide to mount optics when they first came out. The screws holding down those plates were soft garbage pot metal and they stripped out on both when I went to mount optics on them. I took the optics off and remounted the plates with new factory screws. I still do not trust those screws to not back out when the gun is fired.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at August 03, 2025 07:31 PM (0N4FZ)

55 I kind of wanted an M18 and would still get one if it came up at a really good price. Then it would go into the safe unloaded with the expectation that eventually Sig would have a verified fix or offer a full value trade-in on a follow-up model.

Posted by: Oddbob at August 03, 2025 07:31 PM (/y8xj)

56 So, how long will it take to call M9's out of retirement and have them re-issued again to DOD? My local base security forces still have M17/M18's in their holsters (for now).
Posted by: Ed L

F NATO & the 9mm and pull the 1911 out of retirement as God intended.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 03, 2025 07:32 PM (bDxU9)

57 I did enjoy the more authoritative sound Hickok45's 10mm made compared to the 9mm.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 03, 2025 07:32 PM (0sNs1)

58 Ignoring the redesign and manufacture of various components, the logistics of replacement (the FCU is the registered part of the weapon) are formidable.

Sig may well have screwed the pooch. I hope the contamination doesn't extend to the P365 family, but it's hard to see it not.
Posted by: Duncanthrax
===

FCU is the registered part of the weapon is bizarre.
Next to barrels and sights I think trigger sets would be the next most replaced part(s) of any guns.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at August 03, 2025 07:34 PM (/lPRQ)

59 That range is definitely hot!
Posted by: Paco at August 03, 2025 07:26 PM

Is Miss Sweeney aware of the TxMoMe, by any chance?

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 03, 2025 07:36 PM (Wnv9h)

60 Does anyone remember the Tylenol poisoning?
They recalled very single bottle and got through the PR nightmare.
SIG best take note.

Posted by: RI Red at August 03, 2025 07:36 PM (7PD8l)

61 F NATO & the 9mm and pull the 1911 out of retirement as God intended.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 03, 2025 07:32 PM (bDxU9)
----
Pretty much my opinion too!

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 07:37 PM (kJuzF)

62 Sig may well have screwed the pooch. I hope the contamination doesn't extend to the P365 family, but it's hard to see it not.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 03, 2025 07:26 PM (0sNs1)

IIRC, the P365 uses a different FCU than that of the P320. The P320 is a redesigned P250 with a striker fired FCU instead of a traditional hammer/firing pin mechanism. Some believe that the P320's problems stem in part from the haste SIG did its design in order to compete for the Army's M17 trials in the mid-2010s.

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 07:38 PM (BCwQW)

63 Wouldn't Cozy Caves be easier to share if they weren't stringing vertically?
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 03, 2025 07:30 PM (0sNs1)
----
Joe rearranges them like that.

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 07:38 PM (kJuzF)

64 Getting rid of MY P320s. I have other Sigs I trust 100%.

Posted by: Eromero at August 03, 2025 07:40 PM (LHPAg)

65 The next shoe to drop for SIG will be the Army's M7 rifle, which is not exactly covering itself in glory at the moment. What could become a good Designated Marksman rifle is going to come crashing down as the Army tries to use it as an all-purpose replacement for the M4.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at August 03, 2025 07:41 PM (Cukj+)

66 Joe rearranges them like that.
Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 07:38 PM

We appreciate the update. Give FSJ and Gertie All The Scritches.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 03, 2025 07:41 PM (Wnv9h)

67 1 - meteorological conditions rarely an issue here. Fires if fire season - possible but infrequent issue. Sometimes afternoon winds pick up to the point that it’s annoying, but haven’t seen that in alon time. Since border restored, no “migrant” drama/idiocy either.

2 - Luxury!! While some of us slum it with an (actually pleasant) cheap stick (Hellas, a Raymond Pages cigar from CigarPage), Diogenes is burning Cubans.

3 - think I have a problem Wilson 1911 mag. 2nd handgun match in a row, misfed a round and jammed up things so tight that needed a rod to push it out. Weird. Lead SWCs, but never before an issue with Wilson or USGI mags. Mag consigned to “practice only” status, will try to confirm diagnosis.

Posted by: rhomboid at August 03, 2025 07:41 PM (ollJN)

68 It's been too damn hot and humid with pop up thunder storms to go to the range. (C'mon October!) But there was some gun activity. I won an auction yesterday and walked away with a Hawes repro Colt 1851, probably mid-70s vintage, 36 caliber, brass frame. I don't need another cap and ball revolver but this one came in a lined hardwood case with compartments for the gun, caps, balls, flask and small tools, Colt flask, round balls, and a couple of tins of caps. When I checked online I got serious sticker shock at the cost of cases like this and Colt-style powder flasks. The flasks used to cost about 20 bucks. That has now tripled. Cases have more than doubled. So I got a deal.

The revolver was pristine: shiny bore and chambers, the nipples came out easily and weren't mushroomed and the cylinder came off the arbor with a little effort because of the dried lube. The brass and bluing had no corrosion. I had obviously been fired but well maintained. I'm a bit fanatical about care of black powder guns and I was impressed.

I broke it down and replaced the lube with lithium grease as needed. There's a satisfaction in maintaining guns in general and especially BP guns.

Posted by: JTB at August 03, 2025 07:42 PM (yTvNw)

69 F NATO & the 9mm and pull the 1911 out of retirement as God intended.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 03, 2025 07:32 PM (bDxU9)

Technically, DOD could still tap the USMC contract w/ Colt for the M45A1. That contract was for up to 12,000 units. The USMC took delivery of around 2,000-3,000 pistols, so there's still capacity left on the that contract. Biggest problem is the cost. Each M45A1 will be nearly triple what each M17 costs.

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 07:42 PM (BCwQW)

70 So, range report: Silver medal edition. Or, the "it pays to show up" edition.

We had a great match yesterday, excellent shooters, etc. Had some big PRS hitters show up and it appears the other range I shoot at is in line to get on the PRS schedule. People who shoot PRS rave about how things are laid out.

I got silver because there were only two shooting prone. Unfortunately, due to shooter created malfunctions, I lost a couple of points on the KYL rack and the 1K rack. Still though, fun match. One guy really went to town on the KYL, 1K and silhouette shoot. Fun stuff to watch.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 07:42 PM (tT6L1)

71 Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 07:42 PM (tT6L1)
--
Congrats!

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 07:45 PM (kJuzF)

72 F NATO & the 9mm and pull the 1911 out of retirement as God intended.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 03, 2025 07:32 PM (bDxU9)

Too late to pull the old stock of 1911s out of storage, as the ones that weren't broken have been sold off. New and improved 1911s, on the other hand...

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at August 03, 2025 07:48 PM (Cukj+)

73 FCU is the registered part of the weapon is bizarre.
Next to barrels and sights I think trigger sets would be the next most replaced part(s) of any guns.
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at August 03, 2025 07:34 PM (/lPRQ)

US Army Ordinance specified the FCU because they wanted the ability to transfer the FCU from one frame to another without having to buy a whole new gun for different mission sets. For example, the reason NCIS and CID got the M11 was because the M9 was just too big to carry concealed. The Army reasoned that it would be cheaper to buy different sized frames, barrels, magazines, and slides for the mission at hand built around a standard FCU instead of buying a whole new firearm with a whole new logistics chain for each handgun mission requirement.

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 07:48 PM (BCwQW)

74 I want to thank Weasel for making the TXMoMe the event it is. His commitment to excellence in shooting and the amazing group of people that have stepped up to guide and help others is just another aspect of this great community.

Posted by: Ben Had at August 03, 2025 07:48 PM (HFcKg)

75 Let’s see, the Navy hasn’t been able to build a new ship for years, seems like the Army can’t procure new small arms. At least the F-35 can fly.

Assuming the USMC can still procure pugil sticks and raw meat, so they should be OK.

Posted by: rhomboid at August 03, 2025 07:50 PM (ollJN)

76 By the way, I was happy I was able to get on and hit the 4" plate @ 500 yards in pretty short order. Had the 30.06 dialed in pretty well. Had I not lost time initially, I'm pretty sure I'd have tagged the 2". Alas, was not to be. Oh well.

One of the guys ran the KYL rack and proceeded to hit the 2" 4 times or so. Guy was really getting it done. His wife wasn't far behind him, either. He won the overall point total too.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 07:51 PM (tT6L1)

77 F NATO & the 9mm and pull the 1911 out of retirement as God intended.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 03, 2025 07:32 PM (bDxU9)

You must be an amateur. That’s how amateurs talk. That and tactics. Professionals talk about ME.

Posted by: Logistics at August 03, 2025 07:52 PM (vm8sq)

78 Too late to pull the old stock of 1911s out of storage, as the ones that weren't broken have been sold off. New and improved 1911s, on the other hand...
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at August 03, 2025 07:48 PM (Cukj+)

The reason the USMC awarded the M45A1 contract was because the remaining stock of M1911/M1911A1 frames, barrels, and parts was running out by the late 2000's. Keep in mind that M1911A1 parts from WWII (1945 was the last time the US took delivery of M1911A1s) are not always interchangeable with modern 1911 production parts. The M45 MEUSOC pistols were a mix of military and commercial parts on older M1911/M1911A1 frames.

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 07:52 PM (BCwQW)

79 The Army reasoned that it would be cheaper to buy different sized frames, barrels, magazines, and slides for the mission at hand built around a standard FCU instead of buying a whole new firearm with a whole new logistics chain for each handgun mission requirement.

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 07:48 PM (BCwQW)

This also solved the problem of irate congressmen calling up and demanding to know why the pistol made in the factory in their district hadn't been selected.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at August 03, 2025 07:53 PM (Cukj+)

80 I want to thank Weasel for making the TXMoMe the event it is. His commitment to excellence in shooting and the amazing group of people that have stepped up to guide and help others is just another aspect of this great community.
Posted by: Ben Had at August 03, 2025 07:48 PM (HFcKg)

+1

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 07:54 PM (BCwQW)

81 Beverly Garland!

Posted by: Commissar of plenty and festive little hats at August 03, 2025 07:55 PM (Os3Lc)

82 I want to thank Weasel for making the TXMoMe the event it is. His commitment to excellence in shooting and the amazing group of people that have stepped up to guide and help others is just another aspect of this great community.
Posted by: Ben Had at August 03, 2025 07:48 PM

^^^ This

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 03, 2025 07:55 PM (Wnv9h)

83 If they want to stick with 9mm, there's always the H&K USP.

Universal Service Pistol.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 03, 2025 07:56 PM (bDxU9)

84 What Ben said. Much thanks to weasel for everything he does.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 07:57 PM (tT6L1)

85 F NATO & the 9mm and pull the 1911 out of retirement as God intended.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 03, 2025 07:32 PM (bDxU9)

Flashbacks to my range days shooting the 9…

Every time I was there, someone would bitch about why we don’t have the 1911 anymore, and then someone else chimes in about the 9mm and NATO requirements…

Then the Combat Arms instructor enters the room and says for people to not get ahead of him, or her, even though yes, many of you own an M9 at home (which I did…in my last decade in the AF I was only on the range shooting M4s and 9s as a member of a RED HORSE unit. Had I never joined them, no range time for me). I and others sheepishly look on as, yes, we already field stripped the M9…

Posted by: Cow Demon at August 03, 2025 07:57 PM (vm8sq)

86 82 I want to thank Weasel for making the TXMoMe the event it is. His commitment to excellence in shooting and the amazing group of people that have stepped up to guide and help others is just another aspect of this great community.
Posted by: Ben Had at August 03, 2025 07:48 PM

^^^ This
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 03, 2025 07:55 PM (Wnv9h)

Word

Posted by: Cow Demon at August 03, 2025 07:58 PM (vm8sq)

87 how you have approached range practice and what has worked well for you.
****************
Range report: first mag = meh
adjusted using the fundy list = slightly better
adjusted using the fundy list = ok
then the light bulb went off...I just need to add another fundy to the list, ie, slow the heck down!
the next 25 rounds all went in the 3in target, with 3/5 into the 1in target.
So, the fundy list got longer, but the results were more than worth it. I plan on repeating this until I build enough muscle memory to increase the speed.

Posted by: The Grateful at August 03, 2025 07:59 PM (IQ6Gq)

88 Regarding the cap and ball revolver I mentioned in comment 68. It's a brass frame which some regard as weak and liable to stretch with recoil over time and avoid them like the plague. I prefer steel frames because they are easier to maintain. But since I keep powder charges on the mild side, which are usually more accurate, there is no real stress on the frame. I know of brass frame revolvers that have been used for decades with no problems.

If I want a cap and ball revolver to roar I'll use a Ruger Old Army. They can handle atomic bomb pressures. (Slight exaggeration.)

Posted by: JTB at August 03, 2025 07:59 PM (yTvNw)

89 If they want to stick with 9mm, there's always the H&K USP.

Universal Service Pistol.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 03, 2025 07:56 PM (bDxU9)

The CC9 has an FCU like the P365. It would require a new frame, barrel, magazine, and slide to create a service pistol. Unlike the P365, H&K has already subjected the CC9 to the full battery of NATO standard testing for service handguns. And it's 100% made at H&K USA's plant in Columbus, GA.

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 08:00 PM (BCwQW)

90 The M45 MEUSOC pistols were a mix of military and commercial parts on older M1911/M1911A1 frames.

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 07:52 PM (BCwQW)

Speaking of the M45, a Turkish clone of it is now available. Made by Tisas, search for "MEUSOC" and Military Armament Corp.

MAC 1911 MEUSOC .45 ACP 5" PACHMYER GRIPS

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at August 03, 2025 08:01 PM (Cukj+)

91 Beverly Garland!
Posted by: Commissar of plenty and festive little hats at August 03, 2025 07:55 PM (Os3Lc)

Was just about to comment about her. She's been in numerous MST movies. She loved it, had a great sense of humor. The MST crew said she was such a sweetie.

She was before my time (being 29 and all), but she was definitely a 1. And she looked good in shows like Scarecrow and Mrs. King.

Posted by: Mikey Alpha Kilo, First of his name at August 03, 2025 08:03 PM (0aYVJ)

92 Aw shucks. Thanks! I wouldn't do it if I didn't love all you clowns!

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 08:03 PM (Rwc47)

93 I broke it down and replaced the lube with lithium grease as needed. There's a satisfaction in maintaining guns in general and especially BP guns.
Posted by: JTB

Fist bump.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 03, 2025 08:03 PM (bDxU9)

94 then the light bulb went off...I just need to add another fundy to the list, ie, slow the heck down!
the next 25 rounds all went in the 3in target, with 3/5 into the 1in target.
So, the fundy list got longer, but the results were more than worth it. I plan on repeating this until I build enough muscle memory to increase the speed.
Posted by: The Grateful at August 03, 2025 07:59 PM (IQ6Gq)

"Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast." Attributed to Wyatt Earp, c. 1890s

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 08:03 PM (BCwQW)

95 Sig - made in…Exeter, NH
Glock - made in Smyrna, GA
Beretta - made in…well, they WERE made in MD until ND made it clear they were too good for such icky businesses. A classic example of government running off business. So they packed up and moved to TN.

Posted by: Cow Demon at August 03, 2025 08:04 PM (vm8sq)

96 But, but, paying for H&K mags would require reducing Army end strength, or canceling 1/10 of an F-35, or something.

Posted by: rhomboid at August 03, 2025 08:04 PM (ollJN)

97 The Army reasoned that it would be cheaper to buy different sized frames, barrels, magazines, and slides for the mission at hand...

Did they ever actually do that or was it just another Super Smart Idea that was never used?

Posted by: Oddbob at August 03, 2025 08:04 PM (rUQVt)

98 Woot, I've moved up in the world. Clown status!

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 08:04 PM (tT6L1)

99 Whew! That Hicock vid.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 03, 2025 08:05 PM (XeU6L)

100 blake, your on that thank you list too.

Eromero, your ears burning?

Posted by: Ben Had at August 03, 2025 08:07 PM (HFcKg)

101 95 So they packed up and moved to TN.

Posted by: Cow Demon at August 03, 2025 08:04 PM
***
Smith & Wesson too.

Posted by: TRex - good old rocky top at August 03, 2025 08:08 PM (IQ6Gq)

102 96 But, but, paying for H&K mags would require reducing Army end strength, or canceling 1/10 of an F-35, or something.
Posted by: rhomboid at August 03, 2025 08:04 PM (ollJN)

Look, how else can we pay for the National Endowment for Democracy???

Posted by: U.S. Government at August 03, 2025 08:08 PM (vm8sq)

103 Beretta moved to TN? Toured the M9 factory not long after it opened. Of course it was great - factory tour …. and a GUN factory. Also great was lunch and trap shooting at the nearby range I think Beretta bought and fixed up.

Posted by: rhomboid at August 03, 2025 08:08 PM (ollJN)

104 Thanks for the Antifa Mob video, Weasel. As much as pancake/road pizza is an appealing option, avoidance is best.

Posted by: scampydog at August 03, 2025 08:09 PM (gLpQd)

105 The Army reasoned that it would be cheaper to buy different sized frames, barrels, magazines, and slides for the mission at hand...

Did they ever actually do that or was it just another Super Smart Idea that was never used?
Posted by: Oddbob at August 03, 2025 08:04 PM (rUQVt)

It's in the specs of the request for proposal the Army put out for the M17 program (aka the Modular Handgun Program). I think SIG was selected was because it was the only submittal that actually met what the Army specified for modularity. The fact that their price was at least competitive with the other entrants didn't hurt either.

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 08:09 PM (BCwQW)

106 The Army reasoned that it would be cheaper to buy different sized frames, barrels, magazines, and slides for the mission at hand...

Did they ever actually do that or was it just another Super Smart Idea that was never used?
Posted by: Oddbob

Twas the Good Idea Fairy.
The Tooth Fairy's demented sister that visits in the night.
Bam! You wake up with the bestest idea evah!

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at August 03, 2025 08:10 PM (/lPRQ)

107 TRex - yeah, but S&W IIRC is American through and through, unlike Glock (Austria) and Beretta (Italy) and Sig (nominally German).

Posted by: Cow Demon at August 03, 2025 08:10 PM (vm8sq)

108 Posted by: Ben Had at August 03, 2025 08:07 PM (HFcKg)
----
There are a BUNCH of people on that list! It couldn't be done without a big group of people cheerfully volunteering their precious TxMoMe time!

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 08:10 PM (Rwc47)

109 74 I want to thank Weasel for making the TXMoMe the event it is. His commitment to excellence in shooting and the amazing group of people that have stepped up to guide and help others is just another aspect of this great community.
Posted by: Ben Had at August 03, 2025 07:48 PM (HFcKg)

Amen. As memory serves, you had something to do with the event as well, ma'am.

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy (OT but harmless) at August 03, 2025 08:11 PM (v23vE)

110 I want to thank Weasel for making the TXMoMe the event it is. His commitment to excellence in shooting and the amazing group of people that have stepped up to guide and help others is just another aspect of this great community.

Though it won't be the same w/o Jim Sunk New Dawn

Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure at August 03, 2025 08:11 PM (PVBkQ)

111 Australian state rolls out machete ‘disposal bins’ ahead of ban

"Owning, carrying, using, buying, or selling a machete without a valid exemption or approval will be a criminal offense," the Victorian government said in a statement.

https://tinyurl.com/ympbjcex

Posted by: rickb223 at August 03, 2025 08:12 PM (bDxU9)

112 Posted by: rhomboid at August 03, 2025 08:04 PM (ollJN)

I think H&K's expansion of their US operation indicates that they want to be in a better position to compete for those oh so sweet DOD contracts. A bigger US operation should allow them to cut their prices a bit as opposed to importing everything from Germany.

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 08:12 PM (BCwQW)

113 104 Thanks for the Antifa Mob video, Weasel. As much as pancake/road pizza is an appealing option, avoidance is best.
Posted by: scampydog at August 03, 2025 08:09 PM (gLpQd)

Avoidance is best, no doubt.

But I am surprised that on this Smart Military Blog, this maxim doesn’t appear much: The Enemy Gets A Vote. (Therefore always be prepared.)

Si desiderat pacem, praeperat bellum.

Posted by: Cow Demon at August 03, 2025 08:12 PM (vm8sq)

114 Though it won't be the same w/o Jim Sunk New Dawn
Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure at August 03, 2025 08:11 PM

Someone proposed a commemorative wearing of Hawaiian shirts in his honor. I may have to augment my wardrobe.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 03, 2025 08:14 PM (Wnv9h)

115 FWIW - Fundamentals. Range day today and I worked on presentation.
Turning target, 4 seconds face time 4 repetitions. Low ready and concentrate on the presentation. How many times does the firearm come up on target, with the sights aligned. Triple taps would be nice, but take your time, kind of thing.
Good drill for me.

Posted by: YellowBird at August 03, 2025 08:14 PM (MEbkQ)

116 After all the video I've seen of antifa dragging people out of cars and beating them within an inch of their life...if I somehow stumble across such a mob, I hope I don't hesitate.

What I really don't like, though, is antifa seem to be able to get away with brandishing firearms at will.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 08:14 PM (tT6L1)

117 Posted by: YellowBird at August 03, 2025 08:14 PM (MEbkQ)
----
Welcome to the Gun Thread!

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 08:15 PM (Rwc47)

118 Another great bearing vid, Weasel.
I wonder how many bearings there are on an aircraft carrier.

Posted by: RI Red at August 03, 2025 08:16 PM (7PD8l)

119 Avoidance is best, no doubt.

Well, second best. Best is not being a victim of the mob. If you can manage both goals, so much the better but if I ever have to choose, it won't be hard.

Posted by: Oddbob at August 03, 2025 08:16 PM (rx8G5)

120 Hmm, the last time I saw an antifag swing a skate board he ended up with a 5.56 in his chest. It should be SOP.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at August 03, 2025 08:16 PM (snZF9)

121 89 re. HK CC9. Shot my buddies last week, nice carry piece. I didn't really notice the improved frame geometry/ back strap to trigger distance. Probably just me. He found one at a local farm store and paid retail! Lucky guy.

Posted by: YellowBird at August 03, 2025 08:18 PM (MEbkQ)

122 103 Beretta moved to TN? Toured the M9 factory not long after it opened. Of course it was great - factory tour …. and a GUN factory. Also great was lunch and trap shooting at the nearby range I think Beretta bought and fixed up.
Posted by: rhomboid at August 03, 2025 08:08 PM (ollJN)

Last I heard. MD is extremely hostile to guns anyway and worked to run off Beretta. So Beretta obliged.

Posted by: Cow Demon at August 03, 2025 08:18 PM (vm8sq)

123 Thanks Weasel.

Posted by: YellowBird at August 03, 2025 08:18 PM (MEbkQ)

124 Hmm, the last time I saw an antifag swing a skate board he ended up with a 5.56 in his chest. It should be SOP.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at August 03, 2025 08:16 PM

This is wisdom.

Sadly, the law still frowns on this.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 03, 2025 08:18 PM (Wnv9h)

125 Someone proposed a commemorative wearing of Hawaiian shirts in his honor. I may have to augment my wardrobe.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState
------------
I think that was AOP? Great idea.

Posted by: scampydog at August 03, 2025 08:19 PM (gLpQd)

126 Well, time to wander. Have a good one.

Thanks again for everything, weasel!

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 08:20 PM (tT6L1)

127 Last I heard. MD is extremely hostile to guns anyway and worked to run off Beretta. So Beretta obliged.
Posted by: Cow Demon at August 03, 2025 08:18 PM

MA tried to run off S&W. S&W told them LOLGF and moved.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 03, 2025 08:20 PM (Wnv9h)

128 Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 03, 2025 08:20 PM (tT6L1)
---
Adios amigo!

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 08:22 PM (64qRd)

129 JTB- my brass framed Remington replica is well over 40 years old. I haven't shot it in a few years, but now I'm going to have to take it out again.

BTW: anybody suggest setting up an annual trophy or something like that in Jim SND's memory?

Posted by: The Neon Madman at August 03, 2025 08:23 PM (yNfcm)

130 Does the 1911 come in fires once on pull and once on release?

Posted by: Boss Moss at August 03, 2025 08:29 PM (Np7+P)

131 Last I heard. MD is extremely hostile to guns anyway and worked to run off Beretta. So Beretta obliged.
Posted by: Cow Demon at August 03, 2025 08:18 PM (vm8sq)

I drive past the Beretta factory in MD occasionally. The signs are still up, along with security. At the very least, the offices are still there to lobby DOD for contracts. Don't forget, Beretta also owns Benelli, which has/had contracts for the M4/M1014 shotguns issued to the USMC.

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 08:29 PM (BCwQW)

132 124 Hmm, the last time I saw an antifag swing a skate board he ended up with a 5.56 in his chest. It should be SOP.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at August 03, 2025 08:16 PM

This is wisdom.

Sadly, the law still frowns on this.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState
=======
Swinging a skateboard at someone is a forcible felony in every state.

The major difference is that prosecutors ignore self defense rights in blue areas by going ahead and charging the victim for defending themselves.

Doesn't help that judges let prosecutors get away with swaying the jury that the defendant shot an unarmed man (which is NOT the legal std in any state). It is always a variant of objective threat to serious injury or death (a few states use a subjective std). An adult male swinging a skateboard at full velocity at someone's head is a lethal threat no more than if the guy was swinging a baseball bat.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 08:31 PM (ctrM5)

133 Just stopping by to say Hi. No shooting for me for a bit. First a tooth extraction and now in the chute for hip. But should be in shape for Texas although may be a bit rusty by then.
Still thinking about buying a rifle....

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 03, 2025 08:32 PM (t/2Uw)

134 Range Report:

Nope. Didn’t shoot all week. I did, however, spend 5.5 hours mowing the ranges. Looks like a frickn’ fairway!

Posted by: RI Red at August 03, 2025 08:33 PM (z1SIt)

135 119 Avoidance is best, no doubt.

Well, second best. Best is not being a victim of the mob. If you can manage both goals, so much the better but if I ever have to choose, it won't be hard.
Posted by: Oddbob

I think a lot of avoidance is understanding the Law of Stupids (John Farnam)

DON'T
1. Go to stupid places
2. With stupid people (or where stupid people congregate)
3. At stupid times
4. To do stupid things.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 08:33 PM (ctrM5)

136 Is that guy still hanging five?

Posted by: Boss Moss at August 03, 2025 08:34 PM (Np7+P)

137 125 Someone proposed a commemorative wearing of Hawaiian shirts in his honor. I may have to augment my wardrobe.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState
------------
I think that was AOP? Great idea.
Posted by: scampydog at August 03, 2025 08:19 PM (gLpQd)
I still have mine that Jim and I used in the concealment demo.

Posted by: Eromero at August 03, 2025 08:34 PM (LHPAg)

138 129 BTW: anybody suggest setting up an annual trophy or something like that in Jim SND's memory?

Posted by: The Neon Madman at August 03, 2025 08:23 PM
***
It is a picnic with some shooting for giggles rather than a competition. A Hawaiian shirt at the Saturday evening festivities is a better fit if you want a nod in Jim's memory.

Posted by: TRex - Dino PI at August 03, 2025 08:34 PM (IQ6Gq)

139 Bye Blake, I get vicarious enjoyment out of your range reports and cheer when you do well.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 08:35 PM (ctrM5)

140 139 Bye Blake, I get vicarious enjoyment out of your range reports and cheer when you do well.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 08:35 PM
***
+1

Posted by: TRex - cheering section at August 03, 2025 08:35 PM (IQ6Gq)

141 Common sense machete control.

Posted by: Boss Moss at August 03, 2025 08:36 PM (Np7+P)

142 Just stopping by to say Hi. No shooting for me for a bit. First a tooth extraction and now in the chute for hip. But should be in shape for Texas although may be a bit rusty by then.
Still thinking about buying a rifle....
Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 03, 2025 08:32 PM (t/2Uw)

Evening, ma'am. Hope all goes well with the hip surgery.

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy (OT but harmless) at August 03, 2025 08:36 PM (v23vE)

143 BTW: anybody suggest setting up an annual trophy or something like that in Jim SND's memory?
Posted by: The Neon Madman at August 03, 2025 08:23 PM (yNfcm)
----
A couple things in the works

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 08:37 PM (XRUM5)

144 130 Does the 1911 come in fires once on pull and once on release?
Posted by: Boss Moss
========
Um no. Imho, bad idea on a handgun. Not that great for light recoiling rifle but would be bad for handguns and shotguns as it would be easier lose control of where you aimed it.

Basically they are gimmicks to shoot fast and bypass the NFA like bumpstocks.

Not something you want to use for self defense.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 08:39 PM (ctrM5)

145 116 After all the video I've seen of antifa dragging people out of cars and beating them within an inch of their life...if I somehow stumble across such a mob, I hope I don't hesitate.

What I really don't like, though, is antifa seem to be able to get away with brandishing firearms at will.
Posted by: blake

In almost every situation it is better to stay in the car, keep windows rolled up and try to drive out of it even at a creeping pace forwards or backwards.

Waze app on phone can help show roadblocks in semi real time but no reason to be around where protests/counterprotests are going on in the first place. That is where a lot of those poor people are caught in no win situations--some career criminal gets shot and the bat signal for riots, etc. goes out.

About as organic as nuclear waste.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 08:42 PM (ctrM5)

146 Ed L, the shotguns at the trap range after the M9 factory tour were very nice Benellis, of course.

Posted by: rhomboid at August 03, 2025 08:43 PM (ollJN)

147 Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 08:42 PM (ctrM5)
----
Excellent point. Situational awareness starts when you get up in the morning.

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 08:44 PM (fJiXH)

148 Um no. Imho, bad idea on a handgun. Not that great for light recoiling rifle but would be bad for handguns and shotguns as it would be easier lose control of where you aimed it.

Basically they are gimmicks to shoot fast and bypass the NFA like bumpstocks.

Not something you want to use for self defense.
Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 08:39 PM (ctrM5)

US Army Ordnance tested converting M1911s into a blowback SMG in 1942. It took only a couple of months before they discovered what Whig said above. The Army found that the M3 Grease Gun was better and cheaper than converting M1911s into makeshift SMG's or machine pistols.

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 08:45 PM (BCwQW)

149 US Army Ordnance tested converting M1911s into a blowback SMG in 1942. It took only a couple of months before they discovered what Whig said above. The Army found that the M3 Grease Gun was better and cheaper than converting M1911s into makeshift SMG's or machine pistols.
Posted by: Ed L

Glock has a select fire machine pistol in Euroland (never sold here except maybe as samples, AFAIK). Model 18 I think. That being said, there is a reason the original Skorpion was in 32 ACP for controllability reasons.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 08:50 PM (ctrM5)

150 After all the video I've seen of antifa dragging people out of cars and beating them within an inch of their life...if I somehow stumble across such a mob, I hope I don't hesitate.

What I really don't like, though, is antifa seem to be able to get away with brandishing firearms at will.
Posted by: blake

In almost every situation it is better to stay in the car, keep windows rolled up and try to drive out of it even at a creeping pace forwards or backwards.

Waze app on phone can help show roadblocks in semi real time but no reason to be around where protests/counterprotests are going on in the first place. That is where a lot of those poor people are caught in no win situations--some career criminal gets shot and the bat signal for riots, etc. goes out.

About as organic as nuclear waste.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 08:42 PM (ctrM5)

Eventually somebody is going to do overwatch. Enough of that and riots will be a memory.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at August 03, 2025 08:52 PM (snZF9)

151 Excellent point. Situational awareness starts when you get up in the morning.
Posted by: Weasel

I like (and so might you) what Mas Ayoob calls it--Weaselcraft. That is using your smarts to avoid violating the Rule of Stupids.

John Farnam goes further and argues you should essentially be the gray man that no one much notices. And that includes staying well away from protests, listening to media reports if you must go to urban blue areas, and taking huge detours if necessary to avoid unrest.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 08:53 PM (ctrM5)

152 >the H&K USP.
----

USP stands for 'universal self-loading pistol', in German.
I own 2, one in .40 S&W and the other a compact 9mm.

Posted by: Don Black at August 03, 2025 08:54 PM (AOsQT)

153 >>> In almost every situation it is better to stay in the car, keep windows rolled up and try to drive out of it even at a creeping pace forwards or backwards.

I wonder how they identify 'friend from foe'? Secret hand sign?
There is video of them letting cars through or letting them back out then it seems like they go ape-shit on a random car...

What if you just asked to be let out? "Hey bro! I found the rally! Can you help me back out so I can park back there and come back on foot?" Is there a secret password?

Clearly when shit starts they will swarm, but pretending to be friendly helps almost everywhere.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at August 03, 2025 08:57 PM (/lPRQ)

154 I like The Alligator People.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at August 03, 2025 08:57 PM (63Dwl)

155 Glock has a select fire machine pistol in Euroland (never sold here except maybe as samples, AFAIK). Model 18 I think. That being said, there is a reason the original Skorpion was in 32 ACP for controllability reasons.
Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 08:50 PM (ctrM5)

Ian McCollum attempts to dual wield a pair of Stechkin machine pistols on full auto in his video about the Stechkin on Forgotten Weapons. It's quite amusing to watch. Afterward, he says that he hit everything except the target.

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 08:57 PM (BCwQW)

156 Eventually somebody is going to do overwatch. Enough of that and riots will be a memory.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division

Col. Rex Applegate of the OSS and later a top level security consultant had riots pegged in his book Kill or Get Killed with book chapters dedicated to what he saw as a security consultant. Earlier chapters deal with simplified hand to hand, basic knife use, and of course point shooting which he was taught himself by Fairburn how they used the technique in Shanghai for cops. He has his own thoughts in the matter worth checking out.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 08:59 PM (ctrM5)

157 I wonder how they identify 'friend from foe'? Secret hand sign?

I think that they recognize each other by pheromones, like insects.

Posted by: Oddbob at August 03, 2025 08:59 PM (/y8xj)

158 Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 08:31 PM

True, but I live in one of the bluest of blue states.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 03, 2025 09:00 PM (Wnv9h)

159 Ian McCollum attempts to dual wield a pair of Stechkin machine pistols on full auto in his video about the Stechkin on Forgotten Weapons. It's quite amusing to watch. Afterward, he says that he hit everything except the target.
Posted by: Ed L
=======
Hollywood has a lot of answer for in their portrayal of firearms. Stupid Hollywood movies are part of the reason that we don't have suppressors openly sold unlike countries that don't care much for gun rights but dislike the noise they make unsuppressed more.

I don't watch shootem ups because they annoy me.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 09:02 PM (ctrM5)

160 Glock has a select fire machine pistol in Euroland (never sold here except maybe as samples, AFAIK). Model 18
Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 08:50 PM

Yes, the G-18. I have fired one, and it's as controllable as you surmise.

Apparently the bangers now have 'switches' that convert a G19 or G17 to full auto.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 03, 2025 09:03 PM (0sNs1)

161 True, but I live in one of the bluest of blue states.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState
========
Train like a mo fo including Use of Force. Make sure you know gun friendly defense attorneys, and be able to be your own expert witness on the stand. Pretty much required if you hope to make a self defense argument to a jury (George Zimmerman was the exception to the rule because he did a police walkthrough on video and had his air marshal friend who trained George speak for him).

In a blue area, you cannot count on the judge allowing self defense witnesses to your aid but you can often jam in that testimony IF you had training and can demonstrate what was taught to you including risk assessment.

Mas Ayoob runs probably the best training about Use of Force and the way he conducts the class gives you the ability to introduce that evidence into court even if they don't allow him to testify for you.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 09:07 PM (ctrM5)

162 Another great bearing vid, Weasel.
I wonder how many bearings there are on an aircraft carrier.
Posted by: RI Red
------

As an aside:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/FPS-35

The AN/FPS-35 frequency diversity radar was a long range search radar used in the early 1960s. It was one of the largest air defense radars ever produced, with its antenna and supporting structure mounted on one of the largest rolling-element bearings in the world (with a ball pitch of 12 ft 7 inches in diameter.). The balls themselves were 3", 125 of them supporting ~80,000 lbs.

I have been atop the AN/FPS-35 site at Montauk. Freaking huge.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 03, 2025 09:07 PM (XeU6L)

163 Apparently the bangers now have 'switches' that convert a G19 or G17 to full auto.
Posted by: Duncanthrax
=======
Yes and they are even more of a menace to innocent bystanders even at a fair distance away with that shit. I am told that China has exported some of them using the now banned de minimus rules and some idiots like to make them domestically.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 09:09 PM (ctrM5)

164 Apparently the bangers now have 'switches' that convert a G19 or G17 to full auto.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 03, 2025 09:03 PM (0sNs1)

Which you would think makes every Glock 19 and 17 NFA. Drop in parts conversion.

Posted by: Reforger at August 03, 2025 09:09 PM (ZEu5J)

165 Yes, the G-18. I have fired one, and it's as controllable as you surmise.

Apparently the bangers now have 'switches' that convert a G19 or G17 to full auto.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 03, 2025 09:03 PM (0sNs1)

Dunc, I think you can see one of those in action in the video below, when the guy nearest the camera stands up and starts spraying rounds downrange. It looks full-auto to my untrained eye.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyU6ZqAtEYk

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy (OT but harmless) at August 03, 2025 09:10 PM (v23vE)

166 Hollywood has a lot of answer for in their portrayal of firearms. Stupid Hollywood movies are part of the reason that we don't have suppressors openly sold unlike countries that don't care much for gun rights but dislike the noise they make unsuppressed more.

I don't watch shootem ups because they annoy me.
Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 09:02 PM (ctrM5)

For better or worse, Hollywood has influenced the public's perception on firearms from the very beginning. The most recent John Wick films have probably sold more 2011 type handguns (double-stack 1911s) than any salesman ever could.

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 09:11 PM (BCwQW)

167 OK, all y'all. 9:13 thank you time.

Thank you for being here and participating and hope to see you next Sunday!

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 09:13 PM (oYVkg)

168 Which you would think makes every Glock 19 and 17 NFA. Drop in parts conversion.

Making yet another example of why the NFA and the supporting "rules" are stupid if not outright unconstitutional. (It is, IMHO.)

Posted by: Oddbob at August 03, 2025 09:14 PM (/y8xj)

169 Which you would think makes every Glock 19 and 17 NFA. Drop in parts conversion.
Posted by: Reforger

I would not give the ATF ideas about it. They do enough wonky shit anyway over vague interpretations of firearms laws and judges let that shit fly in court. Patrick Adamiak is an example of that where the POS firearm examiner basically used every trick in the book to make a decommed machine gun kit fire a single shot. Thus judge and jury convicted the poor Navy guy and his appeal has just been shot down. He is praying for and should get a Trump pardon. https://tinyurl.com/2f4amjr6

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 09:14 PM (ctrM5)

170 Thanks for a great Gun Thread, Weasel!

See y'all in the Morning Report.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 03, 2025 09:15 PM (Wnv9h)

171 Thanks for hosting, Weasel!

Posted by: Ed L at August 03, 2025 09:16 PM (BCwQW)

172 Dunc, I think you can see one of those in action in the video below, when the guy nearest the camera stands up and starts spraying rounds downrange. It looks full-auto to my untrained eye.

Yep. I'm suprised he held onto it, as poor as his grip was.

Clearly, he's not an acolyte of Weasel-san's focus on fundamentals.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 03, 2025 09:20 PM (0sNs1)

173 A brief update on the hand - I’d severed the extensor tendons to the index and middle fingers of my left hand. Surgery to reattach them was this Monday and therapy began Tuesday. I’ll be in the splint for 8 weeks and then light duty for 3-4 months after that to ensure full healing.
To the GunHorde, thank you for your prayers and well wishes and thank you Weasel for the Gun thread.
And I really can spell “first”…

Posted by: Coelacanth at August 03, 2025 09:20 PM (i67OH)

174 For better or worse, Hollywood has influenced the public's perception on firearms from the very beginning. The most recent John Wick films have probably sold more 2011 type handguns (double-stack 1911s) than any salesman ever could.
Posted by: Ed L
=====
And it made the S&W Model 29 a star which movie struck buyers quickly found out was too hot to handle.

Aside from war combat pix, most firearm use by police or civilians never results in full auto gunfights spraying bullets everywhere or people toting M-60's to shoot from the waist carrying all that ammo on linked belts around. Ludicrous shit.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 09:20 PM (ctrM5)

175 173 A brief update on the hand - I’d severed the extensor tendons to the index and middle fingers of my left hand. Surgery to reattach them was this Monday and therapy began Tuesday. I’ll be in the splint for 8 weeks and then light duty for 3-4 months after that to ensure full healing.
To the GunHorde, thank you for your prayers and well wishes and thank you Weasel for the Gun thread.
And I really can spell “first”…
Posted by: Coelacanth
=====
Ugh. Prayers for quick healing.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 09:21 PM (ctrM5)

176 Thanks for the weekly meeting around the pickle barrel Weasel. Hope retirement is treating you kindly so far.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 09:23 PM (ctrM5)

177 129 ... "my brass framed Remington replica is well over 40 years old. I haven't shot it in a few years, but now I'm going to have to take it out again."

You probably know this. If it's been a few years, take out the cylinder and grease the arbor (easy to do on a Remington), make sure the bore and chambers are clear, and pull the nipples. I put a light smear of lithium grease on the threads and renew it after each cleaning. I also look through the nipples to be sure they aren't plugged. A few minutes at home can save time at the range. You can imagine how I learned that.

BTW, I keep a pick with my BP gear to clear the nipple flash hole. Same tool I use between shoots with a flintlock.

Posted by: JTB at August 03, 2025 09:26 PM (yTvNw)

178 For better or worse, Hollywood has influenced the public's perception on firearms from the very beginning. The most recent John Wick films have probably sold more 2011 type handguns (double-stack 1911s) than any salesman ever could.
Posted by: Ed L
=====
And it made the S&W Model 29 a star which movie struck buyers quickly found out was too hot to handle.

Aside from war combat pix, most firearm use by police or civilians never results in full auto gunfights spraying bullets everywhere or people toting M-60's to shoot from the waist carrying all that ammo on linked belts around. Ludicrous shit.
Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 09:20 PM (ctrM5)
——

‘Meh’

— plasma rifle in the 40 watt range

Posted by: Elric the Bladiest Blade at August 03, 2025 09:30 PM (yS7+o)

179 As an aside:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/FPS-35

The AN/FPS-35 frequency diversity radar was a long range search radar used in the early 1960s. It was one of the largest air defense radars ever produced, with its antenna and supporting structure mounted on one of the largest rolling-element bearings in the world (with a ball pitch of 12 ft 7 inches in diameter.). The balls themselves were 3", 125 of them supporting ~80,000 lbs.

I have been atop the AN/FPS-35 site at Montauk. Freaking huge.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc.
====

Wiki says - With the antenna, the structure's total height is 150 feet (46 m).

I've been to the ALTAIR radar in Kwajalein Atoll. The dish is 150 feet diameter, but mounted on ground level tracks. So not likely to have 3" balls, but it does 5MW.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at August 03, 2025 09:30 PM (/lPRQ)

180 I am mosying on so have a good night folks.

Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 09:33 PM (ctrM5)

181 Which you would think makes every Glock 19 and 17 NFA. Drop in parts conversion.
Posted by: Reforger

Might be a distinction between 'drop-in' parts and tampering with its normal operation.

There was the paperclick and shoelace mod to make a common rifle 'automatic'.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at August 03, 2025 09:35 PM (/lPRQ)

182 Nite whig, thank you!

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 09:35 PM (/RfNj)

183 Thank you Horde and thank you Weasel!

Posted by: TRex - yay gubs! at August 03, 2025 09:38 PM (IQ6Gq)

184 It looks full-auto to my untrained eye.

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy (OT but harmless) at August 03, 2025 09:10 PM (v23vE)

I'm not convinced of that. Semi-auto pistols can fire very quickly with a twitchy trigger finger. And that pistol didn't climb steadily, so I think it was just stupid un-aimed semi-auto fire.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (with a beret and a Gauloises) at August 03, 2025 09:38 PM (n9ltV)

185 52 Speaking of reasons to go to the range, it turns out that Sydney Sweeney is a definite Range Babe!
https://x.com/dom_lucre/status/1951777533034209323 - KC Steve

Laura Macri is for me still the ultimate range babe. Wo is she, you may ask? An Italian opera singer, with a penchant for singing in metal bands. (Though I have one of her opera albums - autographed.). On her FB page she would share video of her range outings - she still might, I don’t know.

Posted by: Cow Demon at August 03, 2025 09:43 PM (WeMfR)

186 Posted by: TRex - yay gubs! at August 03, 2025 09:38 PM (IQ6Gq
---
You bet!

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 09:46 PM (jBB4+)

187 I've owned guns for decades, but never spent much time on the range. I'm signed up for a CCL class later this month, so I'm hitting the range more. Part of the class is on the range, and I don't want to look like an idiot. Plus, I need the practice.

There are so many things wrong with my shooting, it's hard to correct them without someone standing over me pointing out my incorrect, ignorant habits. I'm reading a lot of articles and watching videos, but it's a slow process.

Something I've said for years is that there's no shortcut to experience, and acquiring a skill such as this is all about experience.

Posted by: windbag at August 03, 2025 09:46 PM (KQ6m6)

188 Aside from war combat pix, most firearm use by police or civilians never results in full auto gunfights spraying bullets everywhere or people toting M-60's to shoot from the waist carrying all that ammo on linked belts around. Ludicrous shit.
Posted by: whig at August 03, 2025 09:20 PM (ctrM5)

Police ARE civilians. Note: “(King George III) has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.” - Declaration of Independence

“(The Mexican government) has suffered the military commandants, stationed among us, to exercise arbitrary acts of oppression and tyrrany, thus trampling upon the most sacred rights of the citizens, and rendering the military superior to the civil power.” - TX Declaration of Independence

Posted by: Cow Demon at August 03, 2025 09:48 PM (WeMfR)

189 Posted by: windbag at August 03, 2025 09:46 PM (KQ6m6)
----
Absolutely correct. Good luck at the range!

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 09:49 PM (jBB4+)

190 I'm not convinced of that. Semi-auto pistols can fire very quickly with a twitchy trigger finger. And that pistol didn't climb steadily, so I think it was just stupid un-aimed semi-auto fire.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (with a beret and a Gauloises) at August 03, 2025 09:38 PM (n9ltV)

All good points, CBD. Clearly the operator was under stress and probably not exercising good fundamentals ...

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy (OT but harmless) at August 03, 2025 09:54 PM (v23vE)

191 Cha cha cha changes

Posted by: mindful webworker - just like starting over at August 03, 2025 09:55 PM (+fWH5)

192 Evening, Gun Thread folks. Nothing gun related to report tonight.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at August 03, 2025 09:56 PM (C/ApQ)

193 Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at August 03, 2025 09:56 PM (C/ApQ)
----
Thanks for checking in!

Posted by: Weasel at August 03, 2025 09:57 PM (Jtz/H)

194 192 Evening, Gun Thread folks. Nothing gun related to report tonight.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at August 03, 2025 09:56 PM (C/ApQ)

And you won’t. WE tell you what your rights are, and we CAN and WILL take them from you when we see fit. Got it? How else do you expect peace, order and good government?

Posted by: Canadian government at August 03, 2025 09:59 PM (WeMfR)

195 Just found my Red Rider 60th anniversary bb gun cleaning out a closet.

Watch out bandits !

Posted by: Hatari Somewhere on Ventura Highway at August 03, 2025 09:59 PM (WF/xn)

196 Range time maybe at the end of the month?

Posted by: Cow Demon at August 03, 2025 10:00 PM (WeMfR)

197 Went to the range Friday and tried out my 6.5 Grendel reloads trying to reverse engineer the Hornady Black load. Not sure I got a load sub-MOA, perhaps some right around 1 or 1.25 MOA. Seating the bullet out a little bit at max mag length seemed to be a little better. Need to take the targets and run them through my software to get some hard numbers.

Also loaded up a batch of 9mm today, trying out some Win244 that I got at a gunshow.

Posted by: Arch Stanton at August 03, 2025 10:01 PM (/geRZ)

198 Went to the range Friday and tried out my 6.5 Grendel reloads trying to reverse engineer the Hornady Black load. Not sure I got a load sub-MOA, perhaps some right around 1 or 1.25 MOA. Seating the bullet out a little bit at max mag length seemed to be a little better. Need to take the targets and run them through my software to get some hard numbers.

Also loaded up a batch of 9mm today, trying out some Win244 that I got at a gunshow.
Posted by: Arch Stanton
===

Do you get sub-MOA with the Black?

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at August 03, 2025 10:09 PM (/lPRQ)

199 Night, Weasel. Always appreciated.

Posted by: RI Red at August 03, 2025 10:34 PM (z1SIt)

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