Daily Tech News 31 July 2025

Top Story

Spotify collects your private information and then leaks it. (The Verge) (archive site)

Which doesn't sound so bad except that Spotify collects a lot more than your playlists.
So do your sneakers. Here's why that's a good thing. Maybe. (Tech Crunch)

Skechers makes kid's shoes that have a hidden compartment for an Apple AirTag. Which is great if your child has a habit of wandering off or you live in a crime-ridden left-wing shithole.

Tech News

Micron has announced its first PCIe 6.0 SSDs. (Tom's Hardware)

These are not for desktop computers - there are no PCIe 6.0 desktop computers after all - but rather for high-end servers.

There are also no PCIe 6.0 servers, but PCIe is backward compatible so they'll work fine with ten year old PCIe 1.0 hardware.

The drives can transfer data at up to 28GB per second and will be available in capacities up to 245TB, both of which used to be a lot.
The future is self-hosted. (Drew Lyton)

The article title says the opposite.

The article title is wrong.
Well, that's sneaky: There was a bug in Google's "refresh outdated content" button that let anyone delete anything. (Ars Technica)

If you adjusted the capitalisation of the URL it would raise a 404 internally when it tried to refresh the link because URLs are usually case-sensitive.

But Google's system was not case-sensitive, so on seeing the 404 it would consider it a dead link and remove it from the search index.

Musical Interlude

Disclaimer: Wut.

Posted by: Pixy Misa at 04:30 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 BOING!

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at July 31, 2025 04:34 AM (zU/Xj)

2 w00t

Posted by: m at July 31, 2025 04:34 AM (aURVT)

3 Thank you, Pixy!

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 31, 2025 04:35 AM (a1415)

4 AUS SOME BOOM!

https://tinyurl.com/nhekjs4x

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at July 31, 2025 04:36 AM (zU/Xj)

5 Ha! They've changed the headline!

The Future is NOT Self-Hosted

Posted by: m at July 31, 2025 04:37 AM (aURVT)

6 5 Ha! They've changed the headline!

The Future is NOT Self-Hosted
Posted by: m at July 31, 2025 04:37 AM (aURVT)

Oh, wait; I see. Retract; sorry.

Posted by: m at July 31, 2025 04:37 AM (aURVT)

7 Good morning!

Let's smile & be happy & strike fear in the hearts of killjoy leftists everywhere.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 04:40 AM (u82oZ)

8 Salty!

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 31, 2025 04:40 AM (a1415)

9 That video is a touchstone of surrealism, right?

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 04:41 AM (u82oZ)

10 Village Idiot's Apprentice

Top o ta mornin to ya, gov'nor.

Caught you before your 4 mile jaunt.
Putting the final touches on the modest Celebration of Life for my late wife. It occurs Saturday, and guests start arriving today.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 04:43 AM (u82oZ)

11 Might as well get used to it, folks:

Elon Musk
@elonmusk
52m

You can now ride-hail a Tesla in the SF Bay Area, in addition to Austin.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at July 31, 2025 04:44 AM (zU/Xj)

12 Good morning Hordelings!

Posted by: Doof at July 31, 2025 04:49 AM (zUNcW)

13 Salty, as I said yesterday, you are, and will be in our thoughts and prayers.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 31, 2025 04:50 AM (a1415)

14 And an early morning Doof sighting as well!

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 31, 2025 04:50 AM (a1415)

15 Drew Lyton

But I know this world where we are all free from our corporate landlords through solidarity, mutual aid, and shared, community-owned, privacy-focused, internet infrastructure is possible.

Sure, Jan.

Posted by: m at July 31, 2025 04:50 AM (aURVT)

16 Drew Lyton

The future is community-hosted

That's what he's getting at. Not corporation-hosted, not self-hosted.

Posted by: m at July 31, 2025 04:56 AM (aURVT)

17 Drew Lyton: Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State.

Posted by: Richard Cranium at July 31, 2025 05:01 AM (5WDkb)

18 17 Drew Lyton: Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State.
Posted by: Richard Cranium at July 31, 2025 05:01 AM (5WDkb)

And seemingly unaware of the Tragedy of the Commons.

Posted by: m at July 31, 2025 05:02 AM (aURVT)

19 Village Idiot's Apprentice
Thanks. Hugs out to you two lovebirds.

I for one am so glad all my Harris win contingency plans did not have to go operational. We talked a bit about that at a MoMeet.

I am in a happy place with respect to the cultural turn. And I get to subtly influence kids when school starts in 2 weeks.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 05:03 AM (u82oZ)

20 Doof

Out late or up early? Or is there a 24-hour Le Mans style pickleball tournament?

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 05:04 AM (u82oZ)

21 Birdbath status?

Posted by: Just Wondering at July 31, 2025 05:04 AM (XQo4F)

22 Boy, what a change in weather.

Yesterday's high was only 94.5 degrees. And with a pretty steady overcast, it felt much cooler than that even.

And on the technical side of it, I have been tweaking the fan rate settings on the new heat pump for about two weeks now. Mostly in 25CFM increments, and than observing humidity and temperature swings.

Other than two 20 minute periods yesterday, temperatures upstairs and downstairs tracked within .5 degrees, and 3%RH of each other. And those two periods were during a scheduled change in thermostat settings, and allowing the house to settle into the new temperature setting.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 31, 2025 05:06 AM (a1415)

23 "And I get to subtly influence kids when school starts in 2 weeks."

Good on ya.

I believe our first day of school is on this coming Tuesday.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 31, 2025 05:07 AM (a1415)

24 Nik Kershaw - The Riddle

I dunno; is that weird enough?

Posted by: m at July 31, 2025 05:07 AM (aURVT)

25 Currently, 79.9 degrees, with a 79.6 dew point.
99% RH.
Feels like 82.2 degrees out.

Bird bath is full, but gets cleaned later today when I mow the yard.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 31, 2025 05:09 AM (a1415)

26
g'mornin', 'rons

Posted by: AltonJackson at July 31, 2025 05:11 AM (tljrc)

27 AltonJackson, Good morning. I hope your job search is fruitful.

Posted by: Ben Had at July 31, 2025 05:12 AM (HFcKg)

28 Morning, 'rons and 'ettes.

Posted by: olddog in mo at July 31, 2025 05:12 AM (hoCmQ)

29 Drew Lyton

But if we want to live in a world where we are not bent at the knee to corporate lords and also don't fall victim to the myth of self-reliance and rugged individualism, we need to think radically differently about how we create communal, shared internet infrastructure.

Posted by: m at July 31, 2025 05:14 AM (aURVT)

30 olddog, Good morning and a blessed day to you and your family.

Posted by: Ben Had at July 31, 2025 05:14 AM (HFcKg)

31 Same to you, Ben Had.

Posted by: olddog in mo at July 31, 2025 05:15 AM (hoCmQ)

32 Cool front came through. High today 82. Gonna stay in mid 80's through middle of next week.

Posted by: olddog in mo at July 31, 2025 05:18 AM (hoCmQ)

33 {{{Ben Had}}}
🎼 ♭ 5/4 ♫♫ ♫♫ Good morning! ♬♬ ♩ ♪

Had two very alert turkey hens guarding 11 teenage (hatched this spring) turkeys in the north pasture yesterday.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 05:19 AM (u82oZ)

34 Current weather is being measured by how many t-shirts get sweat soaked in a day.

Posted by: Ben Had at July 31, 2025 05:20 AM (HFcKg)

35
g'mornin', Ben Had

thanks...it's been slow-motion so far

been running in to the GBWD (Grey Beard White Dude) problem...they want 20+ years of experience, then freak out when a grey beard shows up for the interview

seriously considering shaving my head and going with the nothing but eyebrows look

Posted by: AltonJackson at July 31, 2025 05:20 AM (tljrc)

36 olddog in mo

That was a welcome cold front. Feels good. I still say this has been a colder and wetter summer than average. Climate cultists hardest hit.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 05:20 AM (u82oZ)

37 The future is self-hosted. (Drew Lyton)

The article title says the opposite.

The article title is wrong.

Started out fine.
I even agreed with him and was rooting for him to find a way to stick it to Amazon.

Then he turned it all into a screed over individualism and a plea for communitarian nonsense where my local library turns into my local data cloud.

All because sharing some photos with family and friends on Facebook, or your own website for that matter, was too much for him,

Oh no, your personal cloud has got to be an easy, to setup, interactive, community or it’s not good enough.

Nope, now it’s time to bring in the government and make it a human right to share your stuff on the internet where everybody can participate for free*.

*Local property taxes, sales taxes, federal digital services tax, library cloud access fees, and internet access fees, not included.

Posted by: SpeakingOf at July 31, 2025 05:21 AM (6ydKt)

38 Salty...

Those turkeys should be ready to go for Thanksgiving.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 31, 2025 05:22 AM (a1415)

39 NaCly, big hug to you . We are very sparse on those types of fowl around here. Haven't seen a roadrunner in ages.

Posted by: Ben Had at July 31, 2025 05:24 AM (HFcKg)

40 AltonJackson

Maybe a fake tattoo of "POOR IMPULSE CONTROL" as a homage to Snow Crash?

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 05:24 AM (u82oZ)

41 Mornin'

I go back to work tonight. Meh.

Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at July 31, 2025 05:25 AM (sAmhv)

42 Ben Had

Your hugs are therapeutic, and do powers of good.
** Does brief Happy Dance. **

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 05:26 AM (u82oZ)

43
Maybe a fake tattoo of "POOR IMPULSE CONTROL" as a homage to Snow Crash?

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 05:24 AM

that, or start wearing a turban & carrying a kirpan and telling people I'm a Sihk

Posted by: AltonJackson at July 31, 2025 05:28 AM (tljrc)

44 Morning, Salty. Yes, cool front was pleasant surprise and will be most welcomed at lake this weekend.

Posted by: olddog in mo at July 31, 2025 05:29 AM (hoCmQ)

45 Time for the morning walk.

BBIAB

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 31, 2025 05:32 AM (a1415)

46 AltonJackson, go with that !

Posted by: Ben Had at July 31, 2025 05:33 AM (HFcKg)

47 29 Drew Lyton

But if we want to live in a world where we are not bent at the knee to corporate lords and also don't fall victim to the myth of self-reliance and rugged individualism, we need to think radically differently about how we create communal, shared internet infrastructure.
Posted by: m

Ah. A communist.

Posted by: Puddleglum, back in Babylon DC at July 31, 2025 05:33 AM (sAmhv)

48 olddog in mo

May your swash stay buckled on the lake.

I can see the headlines now: "Coast Guard concerned with increase in piracy and shenanigans on inland reservoirs."

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 05:34 AM (u82oZ)

49 mornin yall. I keep waking up earlier and earlier. I feel like I should be doing something productive while it's still cool, like run a leaf blower or drive some fence posts.

Posted by: fd at July 31, 2025 05:36 AM (vFG9F)

50 fd, how many hours on your new tractor?

Posted by: Ben Had at July 31, 2025 05:37 AM (HFcKg)

51 Ah. A communist.
Posted by: Puddleglum, back in Babylon DC at July 31, 2025 05:33 AM (sAmhv)

Because if he has it, those underprivileged people on the other side of town deserve it, too,

And since they’re so stupid and poor, guys like him are going to make the government do it for them.

And you are going to pay for his high-minded ideals whether you like it or not.

I bet this guy is double vaxed and quadruple boosted.

Posted by: SpeakingOf at July 31, 2025 05:40 AM (6ydKt)

52 I'm starting to have a problem telling Bill Gates and Ellen DeGeneres apart.

Posted by: fd at July 31, 2025 05:40 AM (vFG9F)

53 Ge-evening and ge-morning to all on this Thor's Day! (Look at me, trying to make German past tense verbs out of plain ol' nouns.) Last day of July, huh? This has been one busy damn month for yours truly and I'm glad to have it in the rear view mirror. How 'bout you?

We went to see the 1986 Little Shop of Horrors musical movie last night. Lots of fun. I'd forgotten Bill Murray is in it as the dental patient who loves pain, and thus disappoints sadist dentist Steve Martin. The version we saw had the non-theatrical ending: Audrey II the giant plant kills both Rick Moranis and Ellen Greene, his fiancee, and then proceeds to conquer the world with more just like it -- an army of botanical Godzillas. Disturbing!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at July 31, 2025 05:41 AM (omVj0)

54 Have you ever wondered what bops powerful figures are listening to on Spotify?

Casey Newton, my former colleague who writes the Platformer newsletter, confirmed his information was accurate: his No. 1 song last year was “All You Children” by Jamie xx and the Avalanches. “Here is my comment: ‘All You Children’ by Jamie [xx and the Avalanches] absolutely slaps,” he wrote. “Highly recommended for your summer BBQ playlists.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dILtgyQEXRA

Posted by: scottst at July 31, 2025 05:42 AM (9PzrL)

55 Drew Lyton

But in case you still aren't convinced, this entire system could still work entirely through the private-market through non-profits or cooperatives. And in our current political climate, I think this path is probably more likely to succeed than getting funding for libraries to start racking servers.

Posted by: m at July 31, 2025 05:43 AM (aURVT)

56 Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere

Had a flash to Dejah Thoris seeing your comment.

ERB did not understand biology, and John Carter likes a cloaca way too much.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 05:44 AM (u82oZ)

57 mornin yall. I keep waking up earlier and earlier. I feel like I should be doing something productive while it's still cool, like run a leaf blower or drive some fence posts.
Posted by: fd at July 31, 2025

***
Me too! Though about all I can do is go for a walk in my neighborhood. It rained yesterday from about two o'clock until six, not heavily, but enough to lower the morning temp now from 83 to 77. So I don't want to waste it!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at July 31, 2025 05:44 AM (omVj0)

58 "fd, how many hours on your new tractor?
Posted by: Ben Had"

About 20 now I think. This thing is great. It has an air-conditioned cab so I can work in all weather without being slapped in the face with branches or molested by yellow jackets.

Posted by: fd at July 31, 2025 05:45 AM (vFG9F)

59 GO! - NASA/SpaceX - Falcon 9 - SpaceX Crew-11 - LC-39A - Kennedy Space Center

Going live in about 2hrs (6:55AM US central) if you like all the preliminary stuff.

Launch Date: July 31, 2025
Launch Time: 12:09 p.m. EDT (1609 UTC, 18:09 CEST)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX4lkjfMVCs

Posted by: Joyenz at July 31, 2025 05:45 AM (sPQoU)

60 G'mornin' everyone!

52,lol!

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at July 31, 2025 05:46 AM (dKEEs)

61 Joyenz

Thank you for continuing the tradition of your father.

He is missed.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 05:47 AM (u82oZ)

62 And an early morning Doof sighting as well!
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 31, 2025 04:50 AM (a1415)

Doof
Out late or up early? Or is there a 24-hour Le Mans style pickleball tournament?
Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 05:04 AM (u82oZ)

Hello VIA, hello Salty!
On the road for a few days, moving my younger son to Denver. Currently near Indianapolis. Making our way to Omaha today.

Posted by: Doof at July 31, 2025 05:49 AM (zUNcW)

63 Joyenz

Thank you for continuing the tradition of your father.

He is missed.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025

***
He is; and you, Joyenz, are welcome.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at July 31, 2025 05:50 AM (omVj0)

64 But in case you still aren't convinced, this entire system could still work entirely through the private-market through non-profits or cooperatives.

Posted by: m at July 31, 2025 05:43 AM (aURVT)

I hate to break it to Drew, but non-profits are only as good as their charitable donations, and cooperatives are only good as long as they’re getting free equipment and free labor.
They’ll never replace private enterprise.

Trust me, when that plan fails, and it will, it would then be ratcheted up one notch to the library cloud idea - which is where Drew wanted it to go all along.

Posted by: SpeakingOf at July 31, 2025 05:50 AM (6ydKt)

65 I'm looking forward to the trek to Texas in October. I fixed a few little things on the motorhome and replaced the house batteries. I need to find someone who can watch my MIL for a few days so Mrs fd can come too.

Posted by: fd at July 31, 2025 05:50 AM (vFG9F)

66 Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 05:47 AM (u82oZ)

You're welcome. It is the least I can do.

Posted by: Joyenz at July 31, 2025 05:50 AM (sPQoU)

67 56 degrees, can't tell if it's cloudy yet ...

" can transfer data at up to 28GB per second and will be available in capacities up to 245TB, both of which used to be a lot."

I remember 300 baud and 16k ... when system clocks were kilohertz ...

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at July 31, 2025 05:51 AM (dKEEs)

68 Hey Sockrat did you get to load an OS yet?

Posted by: fd at July 31, 2025 05:51 AM (vFG9F)

69 fd, here's hoping your search is successful. I would love to meet the very talented Mrs. fd.

Posted by: Ben Had at July 31, 2025 05:52 AM (HFcKg)

70 Omaha!

Posted by: Peyton Manning at July 31, 2025 05:52 AM (XQo4F)

71 The last day of the month was my payday from my former employer for most of two decades. Between 2015-2018 I was a non-exempt employee, meaning I could get overtime, but also meaning I had to be paid every two weeks and punch a time clock. Hated it. When I moved to my last job, earning more $$, I went to "exempt" status and monthly pay, and only had to confirm my hours after the month's pay period was over.

Thus, the last day of any calendar month triggers me.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at July 31, 2025 05:53 AM (omVj0)

72 "I would love to meet the very talented Mrs. fd.
Posted by: Ben Had"

She needs to get away and meet the Horde. This caretaker stuff is wearing her down.

Posted by: fd at July 31, 2025 05:53 AM (vFG9F)

73 How many in a day, BenHad? here in WI, outdoors on on a hot day, I can run 3 or 4, plus a dish towel or two for brow-mopping.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at July 31, 2025 05:56 AM (dKEEs)

74 sock_rat, Good morning. Yesterday was a 3 shirter

Posted by: Ben Had at July 31, 2025 05:57 AM (HFcKg)

75 Omaha!
Posted by: Peyton Manning at July 31, 2025

***
"Pigpen, what's yer twenty?
Omaha??
Well, they ought to know what to do with them hogs out there, fer sure --"

Posted by: The Rubber Duck at July 31, 2025 05:57 AM (omVj0)

76 Ben Had!
Son of Doof, who is moving to Denver, is planning to attend the MoMe! As is one of his friends from MD. Next gen morons!

Posted by: Doof at July 31, 2025 05:57 AM (zUNcW)

77 no, not yet ...

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at July 31, 2025 05:58 AM (dKEEs)

78 Doof, Wonderful. Safe travels.

Posted by: Ben Had at July 31, 2025 05:59 AM (HFcKg)

79 "Pigpen, what's yer twenty?
Omaha??
Well, they ought to know what to do with them hogs out there, fer sure --"
Posted by: The Rubber Duck at July 31, 2025 05:57 AM (omVj0)

Keep the bugs off the glass
And the Bears off your... bumper

Posted by: Doof at July 31, 2025 06:00 AM (zUNcW)

80 Five am, and I've had my two small coffees. Time to change and go for my walk.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at July 31, 2025 06:01 AM (omVj0)

81 Doof, Wonderful. Safe travels.
Posted by: Ben Had at July 31, 2025 05:59 AM (HFcKg)

Thanks!

Posted by: Doof at July 31, 2025 06:01 AM (zUNcW)

82 Im curious about this "secret room" the FBI discovered. How many other secret rooms do they have? Do they have Judge Crater in the attic?

Posted by: fd at July 31, 2025 06:01 AM (vFG9F)

83 Woke up at 4:28, thought I could turn over and get another hour or more of sleep but my brain and body laughed at that idea and suggested I pick up the iPad, instead.

So here I am, and now I might as well go for a shower.

I foresee a potential nap time in my near future.

Posted by: SpeakingOf at July 31, 2025 06:02 AM (6ydKt)

84 Bravo, Secretary of the Army!

More of this:

https://tinyurl.com/ycka4xsu

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at July 31, 2025 06:03 AM (Tm6bq)

85 coffee! now there's an idea!

*wanders off, mumbling*

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at July 31, 2025 06:06 AM (dKEEs)

86
and it looks like I'm getting rained out of my morning hike

'sposed to clear up by early afternoon, so I can get out after business hours

as an added bonus, I left the adventure fishing rig in the bed of the truck yesterday, so now it's sopping wet

Posted by: AltonJackson at July 31, 2025 06:09 AM (tljrc)

87 been running in to the GBWD (Grey Beard White Dude) problem...they want 20+ years of experience, then freak out when a grey beard shows up for the interview

seriously considering shaving my head and going with the nothing but eyebrows look
Posted by: AltonJackson at July 31, 2025 05:20 AM (tljrc)

Then you run into the Bald White Dude problem. Have you considered blackface? Or fake tits?

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at July 31, 2025 06:10 AM (ExV1e)

88 "Then you run into the Bald White Dude problem. Have you considered blackface? Or fake tits?
Posted by: I used to have a different nic"

How do you look in high heels?

Posted by: fd at July 31, 2025 06:11 AM (vFG9F)

89 Have a wonderful day, everyone.

May you be blessed with cooler temps and safe travels.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 31, 2025 06:11 AM (u82oZ)

90 Pixy, if you ever read this, thank you for the "Uptown Funk" RWBY AMV the other day. That one has been on my AMV playlist for a long time.

Posted by: pookysgirl, not a morning person at July 31, 2025 06:11 AM (Wt5PA)

91 Morning all

Posted by: rickb223 at July 31, 2025 06:12 AM (t7hQH)

92
Then you run into the Bald White Dude problem. Have you considered blackface? Or fake tits?

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at July 31, 2025 06:10 AM

wearing a wig, garish make-up, and a dress is also on the list of possibilities

don't know what I'd do for shoes, tho

Posted by: AltonJackson at July 31, 2025 06:13 AM (tljrc)

93 Bravo, Secretary of the Army!

More of this:

https://tinyurl.com/ycka4xsu
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at July 31, 2025 06:03 AM (Tm6bq)

It will take years to dismantle all of the DEI embedded across our government.

It’s a win, but I fear how easily all of this can be put back in place after the next Dem president is elected.

Posted by: SpeakingOf at July 31, 2025 06:16 AM (6ydKt)

94 don't know what I'd do for shoes, tho
Posted by: AltonJackson at July 31, 2025 06:13 AM (tljrc)

Crocs are a possibility.
Just get a color that matches your dress.

Posted by: SpeakingOf at July 31, 2025 06:17 AM (6ydKt)

95 I need to find someone who can watch my MIL for a few days so Mrs fd can come too.
Posted by: fd at July 31, 2025 05:50 AM (vFG9F)
------------------------
I just was able to persuade my father to hire some home support for my mom, thank heaven. Living in a rural area and having dementia, she is unable to socialize with others and my father is her primary care giver. I wish I lived closer than 500 miles away.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at July 31, 2025 06:18 AM (h1a/j)

96 wearing a wig, garish make-up, and a dress is also on the list of possibilities
don't know what I'd do for shoes, tho
Posted by: AltonJackson at July 31, 2025 06:13 AM (tljrc)

Morning, all.
I once had to costume a big guy as a well-to-do New York lady for a play called "Sylvia".
I based the whole thing on the shoes- a pair of ginormous plum colored pumps I found at Goodwill.
Thanks for the memory!

Posted by: sal at July 31, 2025 06:25 AM (f+FmA)

97 G'Day everyone
Only slept 4 hours yet seem to be up.

Posted by: Skip at July 31, 2025 06:25 AM (+qU29)

98 LIVE: Protest in Ukraine against Zelenskyy’s anti-corruption law
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2_my8Zb0HA

In case anyone is interested.

Posted by: Joyenz at July 31, 2025 06:28 AM (sPQoU)

99 Salty- thoughts and prayers for your weekend.
Hoping it will be a comforting and healing time for all.

Posted by: sal at July 31, 2025 06:28 AM (f+FmA)

100 Good morning, Horde! It's too bloody hot already here at the GPROMD but with the threat of storms, I don't want to crack the windows of my car.

Going to the Orthopedic PA today to see what the hell is going on with my knee. I shall quietly pray that "We need to schedule surgery" is not heard during the discussion.

Posted by: NR Pax at July 31, 2025 06:30 AM (BpO1e)

101 don't know what I'd do for shoes, tho
Posted by: AltonJackson at July 31, 2025 06:13 AM (tljrc)

Crocs are a possibility.
Just get a color that matches your dress.
Posted by: SpeakingOf

Shoeless Joe AltonJackson.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 31, 2025 06:31 AM (t7hQH)

102 Going to the Orthopedic PA today to see what the hell is going on with my knee. I shall quietly pray that "We need to schedule surgery" is not heard during the discussion.
Posted by: NR Pax at July 31, 2025 06:30 AM (BpO1e)

Good luck Pax!

Posted by: Joyenz at July 31, 2025 06:33 AM (sPQoU)

103 We are working on a slow de-clutter, something Mr. S can do with one arm. Yesterday we boxed up about a third of the DVD's for donation.
For the things we want to keep and use, we are preparing a list of how and where to dispose of things they wouldn't want.

Posted by: sal at July 31, 2025 06:34 AM (f+FmA)

104 @35/AltonJackson: "been running in to the GBWD (Grey Beard White Dude) problem...they want 20+ years of experience, then freak out when a grey beard shows up for the interview"

That's likely a "Crap, a U.S. citizen with the actual experience showed up, derailing us in the 'PERM' phase of the process of hiring our desired immigrant."

See here in section 3, "Step 3: Conduct recruitment":
https://tinyurl.com/49mskdcc

I strongly suspect that a lot of those ridiculous qualifications you see in job listings (10 years experience required with a product or technology that's only been in existence for 2) fall into this sort of category.

Also, G'morning Horde.

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at July 31, 2025 06:36 AM (O7YUW)

105 Thanks, Joyenz. Getting older sucks. If I'd hurt myself back in my 20s, this would have already healed up.

Posted by: NR Pax at July 31, 2025 06:41 AM (BpO1e)

106 Australia widens teen social media ban to YouTube, scraps exemption

Story at Reuters:
https://tinyurl.com/5btzyajs

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at July 31, 2025 06:44 AM (O7YUW)

107
Getting older sucks. If I'd hurt myself back in my 20s, this would have already healed up.
Posted by: NR Pax at July 31, 2025 06:41 AM (BpO1e)

I don't mind getting older, but my body sure does.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at July 31, 2025 06:44 AM (HZi96)

108 We also have another launch really soon after the crew-11 launch.

GO! - SpaceX - Falcon 9 - Starlink 13-4 - SLC-4E - Vandenberg SFB

Launch Date: July 31, 2025
Launch Time: 9:25 a.m. PDT (1625 UTC, 18:25 CEST)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1WAe3Dv5vE

Posted by: Joyenz at July 31, 2025 06:44 AM (sPQoU)

109 The decision came after the internet regulator urged the government last month to overturn the YouTube carve-out, citing a survey that found 37% of minors reported harmful content on the site, the worst showing for a social media platform.

I assume this means that they found someone expressing an opinion they don't like.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at July 31, 2025 06:47 AM (ExV1e)

110 And on the technical side of it, I have been tweaking the fan rate settings on the new heat pump for about two weeks now. Mostly in 25CFM increments, and than observing humidity and temperature swings.

Multispeed heat pumps are the bomb. No more of the noticeable cycling - just constant enjoyment.

Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure at July 31, 2025 06:47 AM (a4flb)

111 Thanks, Joyenz. Getting older sucks. If I'd hurt myself back in my 20s, this would have already healed up.
Posted by: NR Pax at July 31, 2025 06:41 AM (BpO1e)

I understand completely. I am only 42 and my body already fails me.

Posted by: Joyenz at July 31, 2025 06:48 AM (sPQoU)

112 That's likely a "Crap, a U.S. citizen with the actual experience showed up, derailing us in the 'PERM' phase of the process of hiring our desired immigrant."

See here in section 3, "Step 3: Conduct recruitment":
https://tinyurl.com/49mskdcc

I strongly suspect that a lot of those ridiculous qualifications you see in job listings (10 years experience required with a product or technology that's only been in existence for 2) fall into this sort of category.

Also, G'morning Horde.
Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant

As I said the other day, if you have outrageous experience requirements for a job, to be able to dip into the H1b pool, the H1b hired HAS to have the exact requirements requested. Failure will leave the hiring manager/company open to civil rights lawsuits from ALL rejected applicants.

You don't get to have outrageous requirements, claim you couldn't find qualified domestic applicants, and then just hire any old H1b.

Failure will come with a high cost. Because it is intentionally trying to subvert the rule of law.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 31, 2025 06:49 AM (t7hQH)

113 I strongly suspect that a lot of those ridiculous qualifications you see in job listings (10 years experience required with a product or technology that's only been in existence for 2) fall into this sort of category.

A while back there was an Indian CTO who probably had Imposter Syndrome. He demanded 10-15 years experience.

Its the 15 part that keeps the truly experienced away and turns the request into a civil rights problem.

Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure at July 31, 2025 06:51 AM (a4flb)

114
Failure will come with a high cost. Because it is intentionally trying to subvert the rule of law.
Posted by: rickb223 at July 31, 2025 06:49 AM (t7hQH)

It's why you hire labor lawyers. Not to tell you what the law says to do, but to come up with legal justifications for doing what you want to do.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at July 31, 2025 06:52 AM (HZi96)

115 I strongly suspect that a lot of those ridiculous qualifications you see in job listings (10 years experience required with a product or technology that's only been in existence for 2) fall into this sort of category.

In the late 90s, I read an article about a man who applied for a position as a Java programmer. He was rejected because "We need someone with at least 10 years' experience."

The man had nothing to lose so he fired back with "Oh? So you're hiring time travelers?" At the baffled look at the HR drone, he followed up with "Java has only been around for two years and I've been working on it since the beginning. Tell me how you expect to find someone with 10 years experience."

Posted by: NR Pax at July 31, 2025 06:53 AM (BpO1e)

116 I understand completely. I am only 42 and my body already fails me.
Posted by: Joyenz at July 31, 2025 06:48 AM (sPQoU)

Ah, but at 42 those are generally hobbyist failures. Wait until your body turns pro.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at July 31, 2025 06:54 AM (ExV1e)

117 The man had nothing to lose so he fired back with "Oh? So you're hiring time travelers?"

Hiring liars.

Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure at July 31, 2025 06:54 AM (a4flb)

118

*hic*

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at July 31, 2025 06:59 AM (5hfjS)

119 Ah, but at 42 those are generally hobbyist failures. Wait until your body turns pro.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at July 31, 2025 06:54 AM (ExV1e)

Unfortunately, I am already a pro. Lung failure, heart issues and a coma in 2019 by age 36. I wish I was an amateur. Definitely people out there who have it worse though.

Posted by: Joyenz at July 31, 2025 06:59 AM (sPQoU)

120
As I said the other day, if you have outrageous experience requirements for a job, to be able to dip into the H1b pool, the H1b hired HAS to have the exact requirements requested. Failure will leave the hiring manager/company open to civil rights lawsuits from ALL rejected applicants.

You don't get to have outrageous requirements, claim you couldn't find qualified domestic applicants, and then just hire any old H1b.

Failure will come with a high cost. Because it is intentionally trying to subvert the rule of law.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 31, 2025 06:49 AM

yeah, you're not wrong but the problem is proving it

you apply for a job, have the interview, then get the "while we are impressed with your qualifications blah blah blah" letter and from the applicant side of the process, you'll never know

you need an inside whistle blower to catch such things...your team needs a new engineer (of which there is no shortage of qualified Americans) and after a few weeks Rajnish shows up just off the jet

then you have something to work with

Posted by: AltonJackson at July 31, 2025 07:00 AM (tljrc)

121 76 Ben Had!
Son of Doof, who is moving to Denver, is planning to attend the MoMe! As is one of his friends from MD. Next gen morons!
Posted by: Doof at July 31, 2025 05:57 AM (zUNcW)

How super cool is that!

Posted by: m at July 31, 2025 07:06 AM (aURVT)

122 Hiring liars.
Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure

I think it's more the executives think "X years of experience sounds cool" and don't bother researching beyond that.

Posted by: NR Pax at July 31, 2025 07:07 AM (BpO1e)

123 You don't get to have outrageous requirements, claim you couldn't find qualified domestic applicants, and then just hire any old H1b.

Failure will come with a high cost. Because it is intentionally trying to subvert the rule of law.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 31, 2025 06:49 AM

You're assuming that the rule of law is actually enforced in these situations. We know from decades of lack of enforcement of immigration laws that most laws regarding illegals and likely H1Bs are not enforced.

I was part of a 400 US engineer layoff at Stellantis last year. They reasoning they provided to us in the Teams call was that we did not have the skillset for the technology for EVs going forward. Which was BS, since almost all of us in my department I know of who were laid off were high producers who have been adaptable our entire careers. And most of us were already working on EV programs.

Then they replaced us with cheap labor in India, Mexico and people from India living in Canada. Paying them $15k-$25k. And when you're paying that, you're not getting the best of the best among a country with average IQ of 72 (India).

Posted by: Eduardo Corrochio at July 31, 2025 07:10 AM (P5BPp)

124 YouTube doesn’t require an account to view videos (there’s a requirement to login to an account for age-restricted videos with violence, adult situations, etc.).

So how are the Aussies going to ban under-16s from accessing it?

They are going to have to make every Aussie, regardless of age, sign up for an account, get age verified, and then they can watch videos.

It’s the same thing they’ve done in the UK and France, and Canada is on its way to doing it, too.

I like how they never define “harmful content” on YouTube, which has quite the heavily-moderated library already because it’s ad-supported.

That usually means “right-wing” content that harmed some lefty’s delicate sensibilities.

Posted by: SpeakingOf at July 31, 2025 07:11 AM (6ydKt)

125 @108/Joyenz:

Your dad used a specific type of formatting for those announcements, and he'd use the bold and unbold tags.

I jotted it down and I'll share it with you. Here's your announcement today using his exact formatting style:

SpaceX - Falcon 9 - Starlink 13-4
SLC-4E - Vandenberg SFB - Space Affairs Live
Launch Date: July 31, 2025
Launch Time: 9:25 a.m. PDT (1625 UTC, 18:25 CEST)

https://youtu.be/Y1WAe3Dv5vE

He'd break the title of the video into two lines, and bold the first line.

Then he'd bold the local time zone/12 hour clock portion of the launch time (as shown).

I'm using a shortened format of the YouTube video's URL that doesn't blow out the margins for readers on phones. To get that, right click the video in YouTube and select "Copy Video URL", then paste that in.

The bold codes for the first three parts of the title line are {b} and {/b} - You must substitute square brackets for { }

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at July 31, 2025 07:13 AM (O7YUW)

126 There are also no PCIe 6.0 servers, but PCIe is backward compatible so they'll work fine with ten year old PCIe 1.0 hardware.

I hate to do this to you Pixy, but PCIe 1.0 hardware is 20 years old, not 10.

Posted by: Ian S. at July 31, 2025 07:13 AM (t5upi)

127 Gee, they all look so trustworthy too.

Four Illegal Aliens from Cuba arrested in Florida for operating a trucking theft ring targeting critical computer systems. All 4 men face life in prison followed by ICE deportation.

https://tinyurl.com/DapperDet

Posted by: Joyenz at July 31, 2025 07:13 AM (sPQoU)

128 Then they replaced us with cheap labor in India, Mexico and people from India living in Canada. Paying them $15k-$25k. And when you're paying that, you're not getting the best of the best among a country with average IQ of 72 (India).

And the ones I have worked with before being laid off and after I returned as contract engineer have been so bad in their work and work ethic, that we all question if they even have engineering degrees or experience or if they just lie on their resumes.

What happens is you get some Indian person make their way into a position of influence in the company and they then get all their fellow countrymen into the company.

And none of these people are held accountable for their awful work. It's as if someone high up has told all managers and supervisors to shut up about the BCCs (Best Cost Country), no matter how much they undermine our productivity, quality and efficiency.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at July 31, 2025 07:14 AM (P5BPp)

129 Then they replaced us with cheap labor in India, Mexico and people from India living in Canada.

The CEO at Stellantis has a reputation for slash and burn cost savings.

For did same.

Government Motors just shipped the entire design and manufacturing to China, good engineers left but oddly, I was being recruited by GM not too long ago. I laughed since GM clearly was backfilling until they could soon close their entire US operations.

I needed a new car, the tariffs were on the horizon and I just went with South Korean manufacturer because I want a reliable car, not underwriting a pension plan or IP transfer to the Communist Chinese.

Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure at July 31, 2025 07:15 AM (a4flb)

130 125 @108/Joyenz:

Your dad used a specific type of formatting for those announcements, and he'd use the bold and unbold tags.

I jotted it down and I'll share it with you. Here's your announcement today using his exact formatting style:

SpaceX - Falcon 9 - Starlink 13-4
SLC-4E - Vandenberg SFB - Space Affairs Live
Launch Date: July 31, 2025
Launch Time: 9:25 a.m. PDT (1625 UTC, 18:25 CEST)

https://youtu.be/Y1WAe3Dv5vE

He'd break the title of the video into two lines, and bold the first line.

Then he'd bold the local time zone/12 hour clock portion of the launch time (as shown).

I'm using a shortened format of the YouTube video's URL that doesn't blow out the margins for readers on phones. To get that, right click the video in YouTube and select "Copy Video URL", then paste that in.

The bold codes for the first three parts of the title line are {b} and {/b} - You must substitute square brackets for { }
Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at July 31, 2025 07:13 AM (O7YUW)

Nice!

Posted by: m at July 31, 2025 07:15 AM (aURVT)

131 Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at July 31, 2025 07:13 AM (O7YUW)

Oh, ok. TYVM.

Posted by: Joyenz at July 31, 2025 07:17 AM (sPQoU)

132 Then they replaced us with cheap labor in India, Mexico and people from India living in Canada. Paying them $15k-$25k. And when you're paying that, you're not getting the best of the best among a country with average IQ of 72 (India).

Yeah. There are very smart Indians out there, but H1Bs are mostly about MBAs fooling each other, not massive productivity gains like Elon and Vivek were claiming.

Posted by: Ian S. at July 31, 2025 07:19 AM (t5upi)

133 And none of these people are held accountable for their awful work. It's as if someone high up has told all managers and supervisors to shut up about the BCCs (Best Cost Country), no matter how much they undermine our productivity, quality and efficiency.

Its actually easier to change the buyer's expectations than to commit to building a solid reliable car.

Watch enough car engineer videos and from CAD to finance department, everyone involved in the process of making and operating a vehicle knows all about the myriad of dysfunctions and pathologies in the entire chain and just accepts them under the general junk drawer title of "Designed Obsolescence"

That is why warranties are the same length as the average lease.

Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure at July 31, 2025 07:21 AM (a4flb)

134 Yeah. There are very smart Indians out there, but H1Bs are mostly about MBAs fooling each other, not massive productivity gains like Elon and Vivek were claiming.

Sadly, the H1B incident showed that both Elon and Vivek live in a bubble. The contemptuous dismissal of Americans as morons because they aren't getting hired at the jobs the visa holders are was inexcusable.

Posted by: NR Pax at July 31, 2025 07:21 AM (BpO1e)

135 Government Motors just shipped the entire design and manufacturing to China, good engineers left but oddly, I was being recruited by GM not too long ago. I laughed since GM clearly was backfilling until they could soon close their entire US operations.

Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure at July 31, 2025 07:15 AM

A friend of mine was caught up in the GM layoffs in November 2024. She had been working as direct employee engineer there since 2022 I think. This was after she was unceremoniously cut from Fiat-Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) during COVID, when FCA laid off all contract engineers.

Ironically, I just helped her get an interview with Stellantis through my contract company, after she said she was still looking for a job since the November layoff. She ended up getting the Chassis DRE job. Starts in a couple weeks. It's contract, but it's employment.

That's what I have learned through all this. There are no careers anymore. No loyalty to good employees with experience, knowledge and great work ethic and great production. We're all just cogs in the machine, no matter all their "we win together" bullshit they peddle.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at July 31, 2025 07:23 AM (P5BPp)

136 I'm using a shortened format of the YouTube video's URL that doesn't blow out the margins for readers on phones. To get that, right click the video in YouTube and select "Copy Video URL", then paste that in.
——

And after you paste that copied URL, you don’t need anything after the ‘?’ because that’s just tracking code, so just backspace out all of that, including the ?, and the link will work fine.

Posted by: SpeakingOf at July 31, 2025 07:24 AM (6ydKt)

137 (Further to my comment at 125):

Here's what the exact raw text, as entered would look like, again, substitute { and } with their square bracket equivalents:

{b}SpaceX - Falcon 9 - Starlink 13-4{/b}
SLC-4E - Vandenberg SFB - Space Affairs Live
Launch Date: July 31, 2025
{b}Launch Time: 9:25 a.m. PDT{/b} (1625 UTC, 18:25 CEST)

https://youtu.be/Y1WAe3Dv5vE

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at July 31, 2025 07:25 AM (O7YUW)

138 JJ is nood.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at July 31, 2025 07:25 AM (ExV1e)

139
Sadly, the H1B incident showed that both Elon and Vivek live in a bubble. The contemptuous dismissal of Americans as morons because they aren't getting hired at the jobs the visa holders are was inexcusable.

Posted by: NR Pax at July 31, 2025 07:21 AM

this

the H1Bs that Elon & Vivek are personally aware of are probably the "brightest & best" foreigners

you get down a couple of levels in any organization, not so much

Posted by: AltonJackson at July 31, 2025 07:25 AM (tljrc)

140
Posted by: Joyenz at July 31, 2025 06:44 AM (sPQoU)

Thanks, ma'am. It's like having your sainted father here with us still.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at July 31, 2025 07:25 AM (HZi96)

141 "we win together" is kinda like "our democracy" ... and oddly enough, usually the same people spouting it ...

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at July 31, 2025 07:26 AM (dKEEs)

142 @131/Joyenz: You're welcome, and I really miss your dad. I'm so glad you've stayed on the site and are posting launch announcements like he did.

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at July 31, 2025 07:26 AM (O7YUW)

143 That's what I have learned through all this. There are no careers anymore. No loyalty to good employees with experience, knowledge and great work ethic and great production. We're all just cogs in the machine, no matter all their "we win together" bullshit they peddle.

Understood. I used to tell folks that I'm looking for my next to last job, because of this project based, or investor based employment. (I love doing start-ups, so this is expected).

Nonetheless, I landed at a place where people are Lifers. Looking at the anniversary calendar, they don't even bother with people with fewer than five years on payroll, but from five on up to thirty years, there are a LOT of names.

Many engineers with 15+ years at this one location. May have something to do with the culture and the employee ownership programs.

Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure at July 31, 2025 07:27 AM (a4flb)

144 And none of these people are held accountable for their awful work. It's as if someone high up has told all managers and supervisors to shut up about the BCCs (Best Cost Country), no matter how much they undermine our productivity, quality and efficiency.

My corner of the software industry already tried and gave up on outsourcing to India. The new hotness is outsourcing to CHY-nuh. So every day I get the joy of trying to interpret bug reports written a QA team over there. Some of them write exceptional perfect English. Some of them write more like Kim Jong Il from "Team America" on a meth bender.

Posted by: Ian S. at July 31, 2025 07:28 AM (t5upi)

145
"I came here looking for a job. I can leave the same way."

Posted by: My favorite email signature at July 31, 2025 07:29 AM (NZjT9)

146 Thanks, Pixy!

Posted by: m at July 31, 2025 07:34 AM (aURVT)

147 Thanks, ma'am. It's like having your sainted father here with us still.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at July 31, 2025 07:25 AM (HZi96)

You're welcome, and I really miss your dad. I'm so glad you've stayed on the site and are posting launch announcements like he did.
Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at July 31, 2025 07:26 AM (O7YUW)

I think it is what he would have wanted. He tried many times over the years to get me joining this site, but I am not too sociable/talkative IRL or online.

Having to update you guys on Dad back in March kind of pushed me on here.

Posted by: Joyenz at July 31, 2025 07:34 AM (sPQoU)

148 Yeah. There are very smart Indians out there, but H1Bs are mostly about MBAs fooling each other, not massive productivity gains like Elon and Vivek were claiming.

Posted by: Ian S. at July 31, 2025 07:19 AM

Yeah, Stellantis' "science groups" (e.g. Safety Impact, CAE (computer aided engineering), etc.) are filled with some of the smarter Indians and have been since I started there 10+ years ago. But they were always in Michigan in office. And were paid fair industry salary for the jobs.

That's how you get the best of the best. FCA was run that way prior to COVID, when 99.9% of the company was in CTC (Chrysler Tech Center). You either produced and produced at a high level or you were gone.

Now, 90% of these BCCs are incompetent and none of them are held accountable or fired. Not only is it a slap in the face to we good engineers, but it makes our jobs that much more difficult to have to make up for their incompetence.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at July 31, 2025 07:42 AM (P5BPp)

149 Nonetheless, I landed at a place where people are Lifers. Looking at the anniversary calendar, they don't even bother with people with fewer than five years on payroll, but from five on up to thirty years, there are a LOT of names.

Many engineers with 15+ years at this one location. May have something to do with the culture and the employee ownership programs.

Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure at July 31, 2025 07:27 AM

That was the culture at FCA when I started there 10+ years ago. I had a lot of great mentors and supervisors/managers with years of experience. And many with years of experience starting as entry-level engineers and earning their way up the ladder to supervisor and manager positions based on their production.

I felt great coming into a culture like that and felt lucky to have so many mentors sharing their experience and knowledge with me and all with the goal of helping those younger than them to become better engineers and maximize our potential.

That all changed after COVID, the FCA-PSA merger and formation of Stellantis. The Great Reset indeed...

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at July 31, 2025 07:48 AM (P5BPp)

150 Saved as a favorite, I really like your web site!

Posted by: 69-lqiyd6ech3x3b2f.com at July 31, 2025 01:44 PM (I6XoY)

Processing 0.02, elapsed 0.0238 seconds.
15 queries taking 0.0066 seconds, 159 records returned.
Page size 96 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.8 beta.