Not Even the Leftist Simp NYT Believes That Biden Signed His Pardons

From Ed Morrissey: "Biden's" pardons aren't Biden's at all.

In an interview with The New York Times, Mr. Biden said that he had orally granted all the pardons and commutations issued at the end of his term, calling President Trump and other Republicans "liars" for claiming his aides had used an autopen to do so without his authorization.
"I made every decision," Mr. Biden said in a phone interview on Thursday, asserting that he had his staff use an autopen replicating his signature on the clemency warrants because "we're talking about a whole lot of people."
...
Mr. Biden did not individually approve each name for the categorical pardons that applied to large numbers of people, he and aides confirmed. Rather, after extensive discussion of different possible criteria, he signed off on the standards he wanted to be used to determine which convicts would qualify for a reduction in sentence.
Even after Mr. Biden made that decision, one former aide said, the Bureau of Prisons kept providing additional information about specific inmates, resulting in small changes to the list. Rather than ask Mr. Biden to keep signing revised versions, his staff waited and then ran the final version through the autopen, which they saw as a routine procedure, the aide said.

“Biden did not individually approve each name for the categorical pardons…Rather than ask Biden to keep signing revised versions, his staff waited and then ran the final version thru the autopen, which they saw as…routine”https://t.co/TwhbvujB6c pic.twitter.com/4OHRSl93or
— Alex Thompson (@AlexThomp) July 13, 2025

So the guy in charge of Covid censorship to cover up the crimes of Covid criminals then personally pardoned the top Covid criminal so that criminal couldn’t be charged with the crimes he originally censored you from talking about. https://t.co/LPfdLit90D
— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) July 14, 2025

IOW, they showed him the parameters... he gazed at them without comprehension and they ran with it.
cc: @AceofSpadesHQ
This is worse than Woodrow F. Wilson's stroke. https://t.co/MmMcSWCLPL
— Arthur Kimes (@ComradeArthur) July 14, 2025

I am begging the New York Times and the rest of the media to, for one brief moment, consider the possibility that a Democratic elected official could be not telling them the truth. pic.twitter.com/6j5HUfPaXR
— Drew Holden (@DrewHolden360) July 14, 2025

Posted by: Ace at 12:22 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 st!

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at July 14, 2025 12:22 PM (dPfyF)

2 The Others have been summoned.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at July 14, 2025 12:22 PM (dPfyF)

3 Bah, that's all in the past. Just move on. Dot Org.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at July 14, 2025 12:23 PM (63Dwl)

4 Top 10!

Posted by: Crusader at July 14, 2025 12:23 PM (TN0g+)

5 Joe's signing pardons. More crayons!

Posted by: huerfano at July 14, 2025 12:23 PM (n2swS)

6 Who Oked the NYT writing this?

Posted by: Ann at July 14, 2025 12:24 PM (4neFu)

7 What needs to happen is Trump writes an EO invalidating all of the suspect pardons and then let SCOTUS sort it out.

That's basically how this will get resolved.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at July 14, 2025 12:24 PM (XV/Pl)

8 6 Who Oked the NYT writing this?

I mean it could be a limited hangout but it just might get away from them...

Posted by: BlackOrchid at July 14, 2025 12:25 PM (Pv3Rg)

9 Sounds like a whole lot of obfuscation around the central salient point:

Biden approved a list. The list was changed. Biden never approved the revised list.

The physical mechanism by which ink was applied to paper is irrelevant.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at July 14, 2025 12:25 PM (VoAdT)

10 "we have to accept this as a fate accompli otherwise it will damage our political system too deeply"

Posted by: Kindltot at July 14, 2025 12:25 PM (D7oie)

11 Wut

Posted by: OkJohn at July 14, 2025 12:25 PM (azIeo)

12 Did the people running the autopen mill get a pardon?

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 14, 2025 12:25 PM (EXyHK)

13 I'm anticipating an imminent Ace post on this.
Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 12:21 PM (Riz8t)

Did I call it, or what?

Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 12:25 PM (Riz8t)

14 Biden did not individually approve each name for the categorical pardons�Rather than ask Biden to keep signing revised versions, his staff waited and then ran the final version thru the autopen, which they saw

======

We are now at the point where the constitutional boundaries on presidential signatures is: "If it looks like it, it's true."

"TJM is pardoned of all federal crimes. Signed Biden."

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:25 PM (GBKbO)

15 "I made every decision," Mr. Biden said in a phone interview on Thursday, asserting that he had his staff use an autopen replicating his signature on the clemency warrants because "we're talking about a whole lot of people."

Then you should be able to recall them.
Name the names.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 14, 2025 12:25 PM (+bLMA)

16 I made a boob boom on the carpet!

Posted by: Joe Biden, Loved By Millions Of Democrats at July 14, 2025 12:25 PM (rfMRc)

17 We should probably let the Autopen thing go, like the Epstein thing. Who cares, right?

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at July 14, 2025 12:25 PM (BUCrD)

18 I have only small hope that the "Weekend at Bernie's" presidency will have a reckoning.

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at July 14, 2025 12:25 PM (N1DT3)

19 I want to know who was added to the revised list.

Posted by: ... at July 14, 2025 12:26 PM (Qr870)

20 I've got to ask you about this autopenis, Trebek. Does it work? I'll buy a dozen right now!

Posted by: Zombie Sean Connery at July 14, 2025 12:26 PM (y9ksN)

21 @3

>>Bah, that's all in the past. Just move on. Dot Org.

Word.

--
Deep State Breathing a Sigh of Relief because Epstein's Dead and Ghislane's in Jail but if she talks to congress, we might have to arrange a delivery of blankets.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at July 14, 2025 12:26 PM (XV/Pl)

22 1. Yes!
2. No!
3. Everyone agrees!
4. Nobody believes that!

Posted by: The Four Answers of Chairman Biden at July 14, 2025 12:26 PM (qUkBO)

23 On the one hand, I tire of detailed news stories about things I knew about years ago but that Normies are only realizing now (and which nothing substantive has been done to remedy yet).

On the other hand, such stories are preferable to the sorts of people you find in the ZeroHedge comments or as "right-wing influencers" screaming about Epstein for yet another day.

By the way, I'm still waiting to see if Bongino is out or not. Lot's of "sources say" articles this weekend from supposedly right-wing sites, but the level of evidence so far has been at the level of a Natasha Bertrand article so far.

Posted by: the lower depths at July 14, 2025 12:26 PM (+b4rY)

24 "I made every decision," Mr. Biden said in a phone interview on Thursday, asserting that he had his staff use an autopen replicating his signature on the clemency warrants because "we're talking about a whole lot of people."

Dude, you can't even remember how sex works.

Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 12:27 PM (Riz8t)

25 Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 12:25 PM (Riz8t)

You know your AoS

Posted by: ... at July 14, 2025 12:27 PM (Qr870)

26 What about the judicial appointments? There is no way on this planet that Biden made those judicial appointments. That is why all these judges are popping up and saying that Trump has no authority to do anything.

Posted by: wferrin at July 14, 2025 12:27 PM (lCdHU)

27 A turnip says what?

Posted by: pudinhead at July 14, 2025 12:27 PM (W3T6M)

28 20 I've got to ask you about this autopenis, Trebek. Does it work? I'll buy a dozen right now!

Posted by: Zombie Sean Connery

Let It Snow!

Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 12:28 PM (Riz8t)

29 Nothing will happen, because nobody has the stones to other physically or materially ruin even a single leftist's life.

Posted by: XTC at July 14, 2025 12:28 PM (UnA8+)

30 26 What about the judicial appointments? There is no way on this planet that Biden made those judicial appointments. That is why all these judges are popping up and saying that Trump has no authority to do anything.
Posted by: wferrin at July 14, 2025 12:27 PM (lCdHU)

======

Most of 'em are actually Obama appointees.

And, the idea that presidents are intimately familiar with any judicial nominee outside of the couple of weeks before nominating one for SCOTUS seems...misplaced.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:28 PM (GBKbO)

31 We should probably let the Autopen thing go, like the Epstein thing. Who cares, right?
Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo

Exactly. It wasn't like little kids being fucked.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (+bLMA)

32 29 Nothing will happen, because nobody has the stones to other physically or materially ruin even a single leftist's life.
Posted by: XTC at July 14, 2025 12:28 PM (UnA8+)

=======

Trump signing an EO declaring the final clemency list in question to be constitutionally invalid and arresting some of the people on the list would start an...interesting series of court cases.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (GBKbO)

33 A turnip says what?
Posted by: pudinhead at July 14, 2025 12:27 PM

"........."

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (dPfyF)

34 It was a stutter pardon.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, A Walmart 6 at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (L/fGl)

35 "Mr. Biden did not individually approve each name for the categorical pardons that applied to large numbers of people, he and aides confirmed. Rather, after extensive discussion of different possible criteria, he signed off on the standards he wanted to be used to determine which convicts would qualify for a reduction in sentence."

I think that's much more serious than the NYT seems to think. While I have never thought the president need personally and physically sign every individual pardon, I think the president must at least personally approve each name to be pardoned. Biden didn't do that.

Plus, the odd way the NYT phrases "signing off on the standards" suggests he didn't even do that.

There's more here. Certainly, the NYT hasn't done anything to quell the flames. Just the opposite.

So, did Biden personally name any person to be pardoned? Fauci? The deep state slimy putrid cocksuckers? I'll be he didn't.

Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (iFTx/)

36 Good afternoon Ace and everyone

Posted by: Skip at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (+qU29)

37 I'm pretty sure you can't pardon based on 'standard'.

But then, we're talking about power and not theory. They got away with it. I doubt even Trump will cancel all of Biden's criminal pardons

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (xcxpd)

38 You know your AoS
Posted by: ...

From a hole in the ground?

Posted by: stu-mick-o-sucks at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (Al4HM)

39 Posted by: Zombie Sean Connery

Let It Snow!
Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 12:28 PM

Sorry, you'll have to wait for tomorrow's Art Thread.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at July 14, 2025 12:30 PM (dPfyF)

40 This could get rather spicy. The pardon scandal is the tip of the iceberg. If the pardon signatures are questioned to the point of being disregarded then what does that do to anything else signed by Joe?

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at July 14, 2025 12:30 PM (tT6L1)

41 35 So, did Biden personally name any person to be pardoned? Fauci? The deep state slimy putrid cocksuckers? I'll be he didn't.
Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (iFTx/)

========

I have to believe that the minions in the WH did the big name ones correctly.

I have to believe that they're at least that competent.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:30 PM (GBKbO)

42 The fact most relevant to this story: Biden was a nearly braindead husk constantly fooled and/or manipulated by his own staff

But 81 million votes!!

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at July 14, 2025 12:31 PM (5MZNC)

43 I guess Trump isn't surrendering to the deep state afterall.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 14, 2025 12:31 PM (viF8m)

44 Afternoon all.

A phone interview....
Hahahahahahahaha

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 14, 2025 12:31 PM (t/2Uw)

45 42 The fact most relevant to this story: Biden was a nearly braindead husk constantly fooled and/or manipulated by his own staff

But 81 million votes!!
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at July 14, 2025 12:31 PM (5MZNC)

=======

"I see no problem with his intellect."
-Jasmine Crockett

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:31 PM (GBKbO)

46 I guess what I don't understand is why there are people who care that people still care about Epstein.

What development has there been that would or should make people care less? It's been "investigated"? As Biden's Autopen would say, come on man.

It reminds me of those who wanted Trump to "move on" a few years back from talking about the stolen election. Why? It happened, it wasn't resolved, we all suffered the consequences.

This is at least similar, if not entirely related. But that doesn't mean if Trump says move on it's time to move on. That's insanity. He's not my boss.

Posted by: ... at July 14, 2025 12:31 PM (Qr870)

47 I have to believe that the minions in the WH did the big name ones correctly.

I have to believe that they're at least that competent.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:30 PM (GBKbO)

"Why are there 1,500 pardons in here for 'Your Name'?"

Posted by: Warai-otoko at July 14, 2025 12:31 PM (VoAdT)

48 This is worse than Woodrow F. Wilson's stroke.

Fuck you too, buddy!

Posted by: Woodrow Wilson's Stroke at July 14, 2025 12:32 PM (JCZqz)

49 Has there ever been categorical pardons before?

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 14, 2025 12:32 PM (t/2Uw)

50 It was a Presidency built entirely upon greed and falsehoods.

A Potemkin Presidency as it were.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 14, 2025 12:32 PM (6iQ9H)

51 Remind me how many democrats have been prosecuted so far.....i thought so.

Posted by: Marge, you're soaking in it. at July 14, 2025 12:32 PM (YovzQ)

52 But then, we're talking about power and not theory. They got away with it. I doubt even Trump will cancel all of Biden's criminal pardons
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (xcxpd)
---------------

I think, though, President Trump has been very carefully laying the groundwork to have everything done by Joe called into question. Notice how President Trump has been very public about signing a lot of EO's, the BBB, etc.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at July 14, 2025 12:32 PM (tT6L1)

53 I think the NYT has decided to make Biden the scapegoat for all the bad actors and actions from the start of the first Obama term to now. He's clearly non compos mentis, so his denials need not make any sense.

I'm awaiting a claim that Biden shot JR.

Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 12:32 PM (Riz8t)

54 Again, the only way this gets any action is if Trump invalidates the pardons.

There is not other mechanism to remedy this injustice.

It's like when Biden retroactively removed Trump's security clearance so that he could be prosecuted during the documents case.

The President has to act and if he doesn't then, just stop bringing it up.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at July 14, 2025 12:32 PM (XV/Pl)

55 "I see no problem with his intellect."
-Jasmine Crockett
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:31 PM (GBKbO)

I almost spit out the Diet Coke I’m drinking!

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at July 14, 2025 12:32 PM (5MZNC)

56 A turnip says what?
Posted by: pudinhead at July 14, 2025 12:27 PM

"........."
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (dPfyF)

Hey!!

Posted by: ... at July 14, 2025 12:32 PM (Qr870)

57 Remember how they managed Obama with the checkboxes?

Three choices, the first and last being extreme but the middle, the one they wanted, was then comparably reasonable.

But even that lazy fuck pretended to read and review.

Biden wasn't even capable of that.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at July 14, 2025 12:33 PM (JThEY)

58 41 35 So, did Biden personally name any person to be pardoned? Fauci? The deep state slimy putrid cocksuckers? I'll be he didn't.
Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (iFTx/)

========

I have to believe that the minions in the WH did the big name ones correctly.

I have to believe that they're at least that competent.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:30 PM (GBKbO)

There is no level of corruption I cannot believe they would sink to.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 14, 2025 12:33 PM (bss/y)

59 32 Trump signing an EO declaring the final clemency list in question to be constitutionally invalid and arresting some of the people on the list would start an...interesting series of court cases.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (GBKbO)

Meh.

They need to be physically AND financially abused. Roughed up at 3 AM Raids.

Posted by: XTC at July 14, 2025 12:33 PM (UnA8+)

60 Aside from the center of the controversy, two things:

1) I think we need to toss the "Autopen" in the trash. It causes more problems than it solves.

2) Don't forget there are likely operations like that of Epstein going on currently. Let's maybe address this first?

Posted by: Don in SoCo at July 14, 2025 12:33 PM (vd6bO)

61 Biden did not individually approve each name for the categorical pardons�Rather than ask Biden to keep signing revised versions, his staff waited and then ran the final version thru the autopen, which they saw
___________

Sure as hell aint defending Biden, but there's got to be a way to do this for categorical pardons without approving each one. Carter did it with the Vietnam draft dodgers, which was what, at least tens of thousands?

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at July 14, 2025 12:33 PM (p16cu)

62 48 This is worse than Woodrow F. Wilson's stroke.

Fuck you too, buddy!
Posted by: Woodrow Wilson's Stroke at July 14, 2025 12:32 PM (JCZqz)

======

Slightly amusing movie thing.

There's an early subplot in Birdman of Alcatraz to commute Shroud's death sentence. His mother ends up at the President of the United States'...wife. Her decision leads to the commutation. No commentary about Woodrow being unable to do anything, but...it's the implication.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:33 PM (GBKbO)

63 So, did Biden personally name any person to be pardoned? Fauci? The deep state slimy putrid cocksuckers? I'll be he didn't.
Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (iFTx/)

========

I have to believe that the minions in the WH did the big name ones correctly.

I have to believe that they're at least that competent.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:30 PM (GBKbO)
___

Maybe, but the NYT and/or Biden doesn't seem to be saying that. Which is getting my antenna up.

Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade at July 14, 2025 12:33 PM (iFTx/)

64 This is at least similar, if not entirely related. But that doesn't mean if Trump says move on it's time to move on. That's insanity. He's not my boss.
Posted by: ... at July 14, 2025 12:31 PM (Qr870)

The AoS style guide: He’s not the boss of me!!

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at July 14, 2025 12:34 PM (5MZNC)

65 52 But then, we're talking about power and not theory. They got away with it. I doubt even Trump will cancel all of Biden's criminal pardons
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (xcxpd)
---------------

I think, though, President Trump has been very carefully laying the groundwork to have everything done by Joe called into question. Notice how President Trump has been very public about signing a lot of EO's, the BBB, etc.
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at July 14, 2025 12:32 PM (tT6L1)

He might use the issue as leverage, but I doubt he'll actually cancel the pardons. He didn't jail Hillary, after all.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at July 14, 2025 12:34 PM (xcxpd)

66 It was a Presidency built entirely upon greed and falsehoods.

A Potemkin Presidency as it were.
Posted by: Anna Puma at July 14, 2025 12:32 PM (6iQ9H)

What's even more galling is they secretly removed and replaced a guy that wasnt even elected.

Mind you, that's extremely on-brand.

Posted by: ... at July 14, 2025 12:34 PM (Qr870)

67 58 I have to believe that the minions in the WH did the big name ones correctly.

I have to believe that they're at least that competent.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:30 PM (GBKbO)

There is no level of corruption I cannot believe they would sink to.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 14, 2025 12:33 PM (bss/y)

========

"Here's the Fauci pardon, Mr. President."

"What?"

"Just say we can run this through the autopen, sir. It's the Fauci pardon."

"Huh?"

"Just say yes, sir."

"Yes, sir."

This would be "doing it right," by the way.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:34 PM (GBKbO)

68 This is the guy who pardoned his entire family going back to 2009, literally as he was walking out the door. Let's not give him the benefit of the doubt, ok, nyt?

Posted by: Thomas Paine at July 14, 2025 12:35 PM (YbdaV)

69 Afternoon Ace. Someone who got one of Biden's "pardons" will have to face prosecution for this to be sorted out. Say an aggressive Federal prosecutor decides to prosecute Fauci. Fauci's attorneys would have to raise the pardon as a bar to prosecution. The prosecutor would have to demonstrate that Biden didn't sign them so no pardon. Will be interested to watch

Posted by: Smell the Glove at July 14, 2025 12:35 PM (Ry3Y5)

70 calling President Trump and other Republicans "liars" for claiming his aides had used festive little hats without his authorization.

Posted by: Commissar of plenty and festive little hats at July 14, 2025 12:35 PM (3BDA1)

71 The problem here is that the constitution provides no penalties for violating almost any of its prohibitions. It is illegal for someone else to sign pardons for the president, and it ought to negate the pardons, but the constitution just says only he can do it. Not "and if someone else does, then x."

So what are the consequences for staffers using the autopen to write pardons and executive orders? None.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 12:35 PM (dfIr7)

72 63 Maybe, but the NYT and/or Biden doesn't seem to be saying that. Which is getting my antenna up.
Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade at July 14, 2025 12:33 PM (iFTx/)

=======

I am very open to the possibility that an aide just ran through some big names like Fauci through.

I just have a level of doubt about it.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:36 PM (GBKbO)

73 Even his pardons were fake. Not surprised at all.

Posted by: Shoofly the Boxing Mule at July 14, 2025 12:36 PM (ufJfM)

74 "I made every decision," Mr. Biden said in a phone interview on Thursday, asserting that he had his staff use an autopen replicating his signature on the clemency warrants because "we're talking about a whole lot of people."
--
Oh wow.

Looks what's being hidden there in plain sight.

A phone interview. Not in-person. Not via Zoom.

Really? Just Mr. Biden? No que cards? No staff feeding the answer?
Bullshit.

Even Bruce Willis in his last movies was less managed.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at July 14, 2025 12:36 PM (JThEY)

75 Joe's signing pardons. More crayons!
Posted by: huerfano
......

AutoCrayon really eats them up.

Posted by: wth at July 14, 2025 12:36 PM (UjdFS)

76 What needs to happen is Trump writes an EO invalidating all of the suspect pardons and then let SCOTUS sort it out.

That's basically how this will get resolved.
Posted by: Thomas Bender

Something tells me the dancing black robes would only address the validity of the EO and not the pardons.

Trump should ask a random official in BFE to turn on an AI autopen for a pardon of some random asshole. "ChatGTP, write a pardon for some asshole in Buttfucky, KY."

Posted by: every libertarian at July 14, 2025 12:36 PM (mlg/3)

77 This is worse than Woodrow F. Wilson's stroke.

Mine's still good, right?

Posted by: Billy Squier at July 14, 2025 12:36 PM (mWFkF)

78
He might use the issue as leverage, but I doubt he'll actually cancel the pardons. He didn't jail Hillary, after all.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at July 14, 2025 12:34 PM (xcxpd)
--------------

I see your point and it's fair. I'd also point out, though, President Trump 2.0 has really been hitting things hard.

I'm going wait and see. I really hope, though, opening this can of worms is making a lot of people sweat.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at July 14, 2025 12:36 PM (tT6L1)

79 Fauci is the worst, most evil person in government in the last 50 years. Fight me

Please please make his pardon null and void

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at July 14, 2025 12:36 PM (5MZNC)

80 Why are so many prominent dems silent about this issue?

Because it's ridiculous and no evidence will be found. i'm not sure hyping it up would help Biden. Let it fail on it's own. With the help of some good lawyers.

the more that they attempt to do so the more people will assume they are lying. In the end it just serves no purpose except to feed the MAGA trolls even more so it's better to cut off their food supply by ignoring it.

Because elected democrats want to stay as far away from Biden as possible. Biden is not a popular ex president and I think many democrats harbor some ill will towards him for the election being what it was.

I expect a 6-3 SCOTUS ruling invalidating the pardons, but just Biden's.

If I were President Biden I would have followed up with "Meanwhile we now have a president that doesn't even know what article of the Constitution pertains to his office. He doesn't know English is the official language of Liberia. He thinks Frederick Douglass is still alive. Not to mention, he's a convicted felon. So if you're concerned about my mental acuity, I have a bigger story for you."

Posted by: Intercepted DU Transmissions brought by the Intrepid AoS Liaison at July 14, 2025 12:37 PM (JCZqz)

81 Has there ever been categorical pardons before?

Ford’s pardon of draft dodgers might have been categorical? It depends on your definition. I don’t think he named any specific individuals, just a crime that qualified anyone for a pardon.

Mind you, he also didn’t say, here’s the category, come up with a list of names and run them through the autopen, I’m off to the John Ball Zoo.

I was so much less than 29 when that pardon came through, so I could be misremembering any or all of it.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 14, 2025 12:37 PM (EXyHK)

82 @71 you're correct about no consequences, but the actions taken without Biden signing off or on would be null and void.

Posted by: Smell the Glove at July 14, 2025 12:37 PM (Ry3Y5)

83 The Blade on ... blades.

There are cooks and chefs and hunters and maybe psychotic murderers here. So maybe this will interest them. I'm a fan of very high quality kitchen knives. I'm not gonna get into a debate over which brand is best, because you might as well tell a dude his wife's an oinker.

But I recently bought a Shun Narukami Carbon Steel knife. I never tried CS and was curious. I can now say that it's noticeably sharper than any other knife I have, and I have some seriously sharp knives (Zwilling Pro and Shun Premier).

The CS blade really makes a difference.

Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade at July 14, 2025 12:37 PM (iFTx/)

84 79 Fauci is the worst, most evil person in government in the last 50 years. Fight me

Please please make his pardon null and void
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at July 14, 2025 12:36 PM (5MZNC)

=======

I bet there's a Todd in the Medicare office who has delighted in specific pain he can cause old, Republican voters.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:37 PM (GBKbO)

85 So how's the fake cancer diagnosis doing?
LEAVE POOR JOE ALONE

Posted by: wth at July 14, 2025 12:37 PM (UjdFS)

86 80 Why are so many prominent dems silent about this issue?

Because it's ridiculous and no evidence will be found. i'm not sure hyping it up would help Biden. Let it fail on it's own. With the help of some good lawyers.

the more that they attempt to do so the more people will assume they are lying. In the end it just serves no purpose except to feed the MAGA trolls even more so it's better to cut off their food supply by ignoring it.

Posted by: Intercepted DU Transmissions brought by the Intrepid AoS Liaison at Jul

=======

It's funny because the story is Biden aides admitted to wrongdoing.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:38 PM (GBKbO)

87 If we’re using the new and improved Epstein doctrine of “it’s in the past who cares”, then why is this a thing? It’s in the past. Who cares.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at July 14, 2025 12:38 PM (ImXfC)

88
Drew Holden
@DrewHolden360

I am begging the New York Times and the rest of the media to, for one brief moment, consider the possibility that a Democratic elected official could be not telling them the truth.

---------------

"Well, I never ...

HOW DARE YOU, SIR!!!!

Have you no ~~shame~~ shrooms????"

Posted by: ShainS at July 14, 2025 12:38 PM (RW1OD)

89 @71

>>So what are the consequences for staffers using the autopen to write pardons and executive orders? None.

Fraud for one.

A highly motivated prosecutor can conjure up any manner of novel criminal theories.

Apparently all of the highly motivated prosecutors quit.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at July 14, 2025 12:38 PM (XV/Pl)

90 If I were President Biden I would have followed up with "Meanwhile we now have a president that doesn't even know what article of the Constitution pertains to his office. He doesn't know English is the official language of Liberia. He thinks Frederick Douglass is still alive. Not to mention, he's a convicted felon. So if you're concerned about my mental acuity, I have a bigger story for you."
Posted by: Intercepted DU Transmissions brought by the Intrepid AoS Liaison at July 14, 2025 12:37 PM (JCZqz)
---------------

All sound and fury making no actual points whatsoever.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at July 14, 2025 12:39 PM (tT6L1)

91 83 The Blade on ... blades.

There are cooks and chefs and hunters and maybe psychotic murderers here. So maybe this will interest them. I'm a fan of very high quality kitchen knives. I'm not gonna get into a debate over which brand is best, because you might as well tell a dude his wife's an oinker.

But I recently bought a Shun Narukami Carbon Steel knife. I never tried CS and was curious. I can now say that it's noticeably sharper than any other knife I have, and I have some seriously sharp knives (Zwilling Pro and Shun Premier).

The CS blade really makes a difference.
Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade at July 14, 2025 12:37 PM (iFTx/)

Shun blades are top of the line. If I were to only own one kitchen knife it would be a Shun. (I haven't compared carbon vs premier though)

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at July 14, 2025 12:39 PM (xcxpd)

92 90 If I were President Biden I would have followed up with "Meanwhile we now have a president that doesn't even know what article of the Constitution pertains to his office. He doesn't know English is the official language of Liberia. He thinks Frederick Douglass is still alive. Not to mention, he's a convicted felon. So if you're concerned about my mental acuity, I have a bigger story for you."
Posted by: Intercepted DU Transmissions brought by the Intrepid AoS Liaison at July 14, 2025 12:37 PM (JCZqz)
---------------

All sound and fury making no actual points whatsoever.
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at July 14, 2025 12:39 PM (tT6L1)

=======

Trump has forgotten more American history than these people ever learned.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:40 PM (GBKbO)

93 Rather than ask Biden to keep signing revised versions, his staff waited and then ran the final version thru the autopen, which they saw as…routine

This is a hilarious myth. They didn't think it was routine, they knew Biden had tapioca for a brain and just ran things as they saw fit.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 12:40 PM (dfIr7)

94 Afternoon Ace. Someone who got one of Biden's "pardons" will have to face prosecution for this to be sorted out. Say an aggressive Federal prosecutor decides to prosecute Fauci. Fauci's attorneys would have to raise the pardon as a bar to prosecution. The prosecutor would have to demonstrate that Biden didn't sign them so no pardon. Will be interested to watch
Posted by: Smell the Glove

It would be too difficult to prosecute someone that way. The government already has too many irons in the fire. Wouldn't be a judicious use of government resources.
/s

Posted by: rickb223 at July 14, 2025 12:40 PM (+bLMA)

95 A turnip says what?
Posted by: pudinhead

Please try rutabaga instead.

Posted by: a turnip at July 14, 2025 12:40 PM (UjdFS)

96 But I recently bought a Shun Narukami Carbon Steel knife. I never tried CS and was curious. I can now say that it's noticeably sharper than any other knife I have, and I have some seriously sharp knives (Zwilling Pro and Shun Premier).

IIRC, though, they are more brittle, and quicker to chip.

Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 12:40 PM (Riz8t)

97 Joe's signing pardons. More crayons!
Posted by: huerfano
......

AutoCrayon really eats them up.
Posted by: wth

Pfft. Piker.
-- White House Marine guards

Posted by: Bulg at July 14, 2025 12:40 PM (77rzZ)

98 I refuse to be willowed:

According to me, this is my my favorite picture of the First Lady

https://tinyurl.com/yxh87hte

Posted by: Don Black at July 14, 2025 12:40 PM (AOsQT)

99 There there was the 11th hour transfer of 11 Yemeni Gitmo prisoners to Oman just before Trump took office. I'll wager the autopen was used on that as well, and Biden had no idea.

Keep in mind that it was done right as the New Orleans terrorist attack took place, and in 2023, a bi-partisan vote in Congress said NOT to transfer them anywhere.

Posted by: Orson at July 14, 2025 12:40 PM (dIske)

100 35. So, did Biden personally name any person to be pardoned? Fauci? The deep state slimy putrid cocksuckers? I'll bet he didn't.
Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade

🙋‍♀️ Beau?

The J-6 Select Committee & related were certainly a stretch.

>Raskin, Dunn react to surprise pardons
From Maryland Matters
Among those receiving preemptive pardons were Maryland residents Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-8th), who served on the Jan. 6 committee, and former U.S. Capitol Police Office Harry Dunn, who testified before the panel about that day. Both said they were saddened by the fact that President Joe Biden felt the need to issue the pardons. "I wish this pardon weren't necessary, but unfortunately, the political climate we are in now has made the need for one somewhat of a reality," Dunn told CBS News. "I, like all of the other public servants, was just doing my job and upholding my oath, and I will always honor that." Raskin told NPR that he was not sure a pardon could be accepted or denied once issued, but that his role on the committee was legal and appropriate and is protected from prosecution. But, like Dunn, he said, "It's a sign of our strange times ..."

Posted by: L - No nic, another fine day at July 14, 2025 12:41 PM (NFX2v)

101 MVP.

President Trump Points Out Red Sox Winning Streak After Oval Office Visit: “Haven’t Lost Since They Saw Me”

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, A Walmart 6 at July 14, 2025 12:41 PM (L/fGl)

102 Oh, yeah, and...get rid of the Autopen.

Posted by: Don in SoCo at July 14, 2025 12:41 PM (vd6bO)

103 This is a hilarious myth. They didn't think it was routine, they knew Biden had tapioca for a brain and just ran things as they saw fit.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 12:40 PM (dfIr7)

I mean, that was basically "the routine" for the entirety of the Biden administration, so they're not technically wrong.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at July 14, 2025 12:41 PM (VoAdT)

104 English is the official language of Liberia? This may well end the Trump presidency.

Wait what?

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at July 14, 2025 12:41 PM (ImXfC)

105 Please try rutabaga instead.
Posted by: a turnip

Eat Hootersville rutabagas!

Posted by: Bulg at July 14, 2025 12:41 PM (77rzZ)

106 This could easily be included in a conspiracy charge since these pardons were done to help propogate the conspiracy against Trump.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (viF8m)

107 "If we’re using the new and improved Epstein doctrine of “it’s in the past who cares”, then why is this a thing? It’s in the past. Who cares."

It's different because shut up, they explained.

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (kxF1Y)

108 What needs to happen is Trump writes an EO invalidating all of the suspect pardons and then let SCOTUS sort it out.

And the Supreme Court would rule in a way that resulted in nothing being reversed or punished, but from that point on requiring the president personally to sign impactful things like pardons and executive orders.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (dfIr7)

109 Shun blades are top of the line. If I were to only own one kitchen knife it would be a Shun. (I haven't compared carbon vs premier though)

Carbide knives are unbelievably sharp. I got a carbide knife once as a present, and stupidly used it to cut cheese (heh, he said cut cheese hehehe), whereupon a big chunk of the blade shattered.

Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (Riz8t)

110 Was Elmo really hacked or was he out drinking again with confirmed bachelors and Lindsey Graham supporters, Bert and Ernie?

Posted by: Mister Ghost at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (TGPs7)

111 When was Otto Pen born?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (63Dwl)

112 According to me, this is my my favorite picture of the First Lady

https://tinyurl.com/yxh87hte
Posted by: Don Black at July 14, 2025 12:40 PM (AOsQT)

What a ho

Posted by: ... at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (Qr870)

113 According to me, this is my my favorite picture of the First Lady

https://tinyurl.com/yxh87hte
Posted by: Don Black

Wow, she looks great even handling a shovel.

Posted by: Bulg at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (77rzZ)

114 111 When was Otto Pen born?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (63Dwl)

=======

His uncle Otto Pilot was big in the news a few decades back.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:43 PM (GBKbO)

115 And the Supreme Court would rule in a way that resulted in nothing being reversed or punished, but from that point on requiring the president personally to sign impactful things like pardons and executive orders.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor

That should be SOP.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 14, 2025 12:43 PM (+bLMA)

116 "Rather than ask Biden to keep signing revised versions, his staff waited and then ran the final version thru the autopen, which they saw as…routine”
===========================

If routine means "first time a mass pardon has happened without specific Presidential approval in American history", then, yes, routine.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at July 14, 2025 12:43 PM (LkicY)

117 I mean, that was basically "the routine" for the entirety of the Biden administration, so they're not technically wrong.

True, and since most of them had never worked in the executive before, they might not have even known better.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 12:43 PM (dfIr7)

118 111 When was Otto Pen born?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (63Dwl)

Don't know, but it is time for him to pass on. So let it be written, so let it be signed - by hand.

Posted by: Don in SoCo at July 14, 2025 12:43 PM (vd6bO)

119 Has there ever been categorical pardons before?
Posted by: Sharon

Not the main problem. The problem is the pardons signed without the conscience act by the executive. It's akin to a lawyer signing off on a bunch of stock trades on behalf of a senile client.

Posted by: every libertarian at July 14, 2025 12:43 PM (mlg/3)

120 111 When was Otto Pen born?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (63Dwl)

no one knows. His birth certificate is clearly fake.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at July 14, 2025 12:44 PM (VoAdT)

121 And the Supreme Court would rule in a way that resulted in nothing being reversed or punished, but from that point on requiring the president personally to sign impactful things like pardons and executive orders.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (dfIr7)

As it should be?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 14, 2025 12:44 PM (0eaVi)

122 >If we’re using the new and improved Epstein doctrine of “it’s in the past who cares”, then why is this a thing? It’s in the past. Who cares.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald
---

because the person we were told was the President, wasn't actually the President.

It's... kind of a big deal.

Posted by: Don Black at July 14, 2025 12:44 PM (AOsQT)

123 When was Otto Pen born?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (63Dwl)

=======

His uncle Otto Pilot was big in the news a few decades back.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

His aunt, Palm Pilot, liked to be fingered.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 14, 2025 12:44 PM (+bLMA)

124 What a ho
Posted by: ... at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (Qr870)

Obviously a shovel. Get your tools right.

Posted by: DoublySymmetric at July 14, 2025 12:44 PM (TJLr1)

125 President Mush Brain was right there in WH when most of the pardons were produced.
Why not just sign them

Posted by: Operator Error at July 14, 2025 12:44 PM (tm0oK)

126 103 This is a hilarious myth. They didn't think it was routine, they knew Biden had tapioca for a brain and just ran things as they saw fit.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 12:40 PM (dfIr7)

I mean, that was basically "the routine" for the entirety of the Biden administration, so they're not technically wrong.
Posted by: Warai-otoko

That ^

Posted by: L - No nic, another fine day at July 14, 2025 12:45 PM (NFX2v)

127 If I were President Biden I would have followed up with "Meanwhile we now have a president that doesn't even know what article of the Constitution pertains to his office. He doesn't know English is the official language of Liberia. He thinks Frederick Douglass is still alive. Not to mention, he's a convicted felon. So if you're concerned about my mental acuity, I have a bigger story for you."
Posted by: Intercepted DU Transmissions brought by the Intrepid AoS Liaison

The chances of Biden saying all that, with any clarity whatsoever, before the heat death of the universe is practically nil.

Posted by: Stu Podaso at July 14, 2025 12:45 PM (mWFkF)

128 Hmm, EO the pardons out of existence due to Joe not knowing what year it was, let alone day.

Then let those with the pardons appear in court, paying very expensive lawyers to handle their case.

Let the process wend its way through the court system for years.

Watch each and everyone of them spending a couple of million on defense lawyers, out of their own pocket. (I don't see any billionaires wanting to help them out simply because there's nothing in it for them)

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at July 14, 2025 12:45 PM (tT6L1)

129 If you're signing so many pardons that you need an autopen to do it, then maybe you should question the whole process? And if you're just signing a blanket pardon for a large list of people, then why would you need an autopen? Just wait for the final list, and provide your signature that one time.

Posted by: Angzarr the Cromulent at July 14, 2025 12:45 PM (7aURE)

130 @108

>>And the Supreme Court would rule in a way that resulted in nothing being reversed or punished, but from that point on requiring the president personally to sign impactful things like pardons and executive orders.

That would be a positive outcome.

In fact, the Trump administration could draft rules surrounding the signing of pardons by the Unitary Executive, this would not have legal or constitutional effect but it would have institutional weight.

And at the end of the day, that's the best outcome.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at July 14, 2025 12:45 PM (XV/Pl)

131 That should be SOP.

It always was up until the Obama administration, when he used it to sign an extension to the Patriot Act. That was the first time any president ever did so with an official document as far as I can find in my research.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 12:46 PM (dfIr7)

132 "Meanwhile we now have a president that doesn't even know what article of the Constitution pertains to his office. He doesn't know English is the official language of Liberia. He thinks Frederick Douglass is still alive. Not to mention, he's a convicted felon. So if you're concerned about my mental acuity, I have a bigger story for you."
Posted by: Intercepted DU Transmissions brought by the Intrepid AoS Liaison at July 14, 2025 12:37 PM (JCZqz)

Biden couldn't string that bullshit together in 30 takes with post production editing.

Posted by: Reforger at July 14, 2025 12:46 PM (lPvx2)

133 I'm curious as to what the "class" descriptor would have been to get such a large, but still not really all that large, number of matches out of the entire federal prison system....

Posted by: Warai-otoko at July 14, 2025 12:46 PM (VoAdT)

134 132 "Meanwhile we now have a president that doesn't even know what article of the Constitution pertains to his office. He doesn't know English is the official language of Liberia. He thinks Frederick Douglass is still alive. Not to mention, he's a convicted felon. So if you're concerned about my mental acuity, I have a bigger story for you."
Posted by: Intercepted DU Transmissions brought by the Intrepid AoS Liaison at July 14, 2025 12:37 PM (JCZqz)

Biden couldn't string that bullshit together in 30 takes with post production editing.
Posted by: Reforger at July 14, 2025 12:46 PM (lPvx2)

=======

He couldn't have done it 40 years ago at the Clarence Thomas hearings.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:46 PM (GBKbO)

135 Has there ever been categorical pardons before?
Posted by: Sharon

Not the main problem. The problem is the pardons signed without the conscience act by the executive. It's akin to a lawyer signing off on a bunch of stock trades on behalf of a senile client.
Posted by: every libertarian
___________

I agree with that. Not signing individually for each person within a categorical pardon has to have happened before. Again, ie, Carter and the draft dodgers.

The real issue remains whether he had capacity to issue any pardon.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at July 14, 2025 12:47 PM (p16cu)

136 This is at least similar, if not entirely related. But that doesn't mean if Trump says move on it's time to move on. That's insanity. He's not my boss.
Posted by: ... at July 14, 2025 12:31 PM (Qr870)

Today we're talking about former presidents pardons with autopens. A story that will go absolutely nowhere, since it's impossible to prove that Biden didn't know what he was signing, and Biden says he did know. There's no wet ink requirement in the Constitution, and no court has ruled Biden mentally incompetent, so he is able to enter in to contracts and sign orders, stupid as they may be and braindead as Biden may be.

Epstein was a few months ago. It's time to move on. Moose out front should have told you.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 14, 2025 12:47 PM (uCjyK)

137 144 111 When was Otto Pen born?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (63Dwl)

=======

His uncle Otto Pilot was big in the news a few decades back.

otto partes > otto pilot > otto pen

Posted by: anachronda at July 14, 2025 12:47 PM (v3pYe)

138 Shun blades are top of the line. If I were to only own one kitchen knife it would be a Shun. (I haven't compared carbon vs premier though)

Carbide knives are unbelievably sharp. I got a carbide knife once as a present, and stupidly used it to cut cheese (heh, he said cut cheese hehehe), whereupon a big chunk of the blade shattered.
Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (Riz8t)
_____

The Shun version has a carbon blade wrapped in stainless steel so just the cutting edge is exposed. Supposedly, that strengthens the overall blade. We'll see. So issues so far.

Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade at July 14, 2025 12:48 PM (iFTx/)

139 Then let those with the pardons appear in court, paying very expensive lawyers to handle their case.

Let the process wend its way through the court system for years.

Watch each and everyone of them spending a couple of million on defense lawyers, out of their own pocket. (I don't see any billionaires wanting to help them out simply because there's nothing in it for them)
Posted by: blake

Make the process the punishment. Oh, that's right. The right isn't allowed to do that. Only the left.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 14, 2025 12:48 PM (+bLMA)

140 "If I were President Biden..."
LOL
DUmmies and their fan fiction.

AI Biden is more likely.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at July 14, 2025 12:48 PM (xcxpd)

141 The chances of Biden saying all that, with any clarity whatsoever, before the heat death of the universe is practically nil.
Posted by: Stu Podaso

He couldn't have said it in his prime. Poor guy has a stutter, you know....

And he's retarded.

Posted by: Intercepted DU Transmissions brought by the Intrepid AoS Liaison at July 14, 2025 12:48 PM (JCZqz)

142 I didn’t even know there was an autopen until mushbrains was out of the WH. I naively assumed presidents always applied their John Hancock manually the way Smith Barney makes money: the old fashioned way

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at July 14, 2025 12:48 PM (WnEm5)

143 The Atlantic, Politics
When a Robot Signs a Bill: A Brief History of the Autopen, Jan. 3, 2013

"Obama was the first to do so, signing an extension of the PATRIOT Act via autopen while in Europe."

Posted by: L - No nic, another fine day at July 14, 2025 12:48 PM (NFX2v)

144 135 The real issue remains whether he had capacity to issue any pardon.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at July 14, 2025 12:47 PM (p16cu)

=======

People want this to be a problem.

But it's not a problem.

There's no constitutional requirement that the president by mentally cogent, only that it be the president's own signature. Contract law does not apply to presidential pardons, a power that is plenary and resides in the president himself.

No, the problem is using the autopen without authorization (since the use of the autopen is accepted, but I'd like to see it made illegal and declared unconstitutional for any government work). It's the without authorization part that's the problem.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:49 PM (GBKbO)

145 49 Has there ever been categorical pardons before?
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 14, 2025 12:32 PM (t/2Uw)

Didn't Carter pardon all the Vietnam era draft dodgers?

Posted by: tankdemon at July 14, 2025 12:49 PM (R256O)

146

The important thing we need to ask though, how does this impact blacks.

Posted by: Dr.Rev. Senator Your Highness E Buzz Miller, Esq PhD MA MS at July 14, 2025 12:49 PM (et1vG)

147 When was Otto Pen born?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr

I don't know, but iirc he was Ang N. Chad's running mate in the 2000 election.

Posted by: Stu Podaso at July 14, 2025 12:49 PM (mWFkF)

148 146

The important thing we need to ask though, how does this impact blacks.

Posted by: Dr.Rev. Senator Your Highness E Buzz Miller, Esq PhD MA MS at July 14, 2025 12:49 PM (et1vG)

=======

"Get back on the plantation!"
-the trannies

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:49 PM (GBKbO)

149 VOTE VANCE!

Posted by: Sid at July 14, 2025 12:50 PM (ukeFl)

150 While I have never thought the president need personally and physically sign every individual pardon, I think the president must at least personally approve each name to be pardoned. Biden didn't do that.

Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (iFTx/)

That's not accurate.

"Draft dodgers" were pardoned as a class.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at July 14, 2025 12:50 PM (fCgdX)

151 Ah, that troll I know and recognize.
Hello retard, welcome back.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at July 14, 2025 12:51 PM (xcxpd)

152 July 14, 1918

Lt. Quentin Roosevelt of the Army Air Service was killed in action during a dog fight with German fighters. He was hit in the head with two bullets.

He was not yet 21 when he died.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 14, 2025 12:51 PM (6iQ9H)

153 151 Ah, that troll I know and recognize.
Hello retard, welcome back.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at July 14, 2025 12:51 PM (xcxpd)

=======

He just wants to vote for Vance.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:51 PM (GBKbO)

154 70 calling President Trump and other Republicans "liars" for claiming his aides had used festive little hats without his authorization.
Posted by: Commissar of plenty and little hats at July 14, 2025 12:35 PM (3BDA1)

You have me wanting to steal Speedy Gonzales's sombrero.

Posted by: tankdemon at July 14, 2025 12:51 PM (R256O)

155 New York Magazine@NYMag
Donald Trump’s trade war and threats to absorb Canada as a U.S. state have fueled a fiery resistance up north. Americans don’t know the half of it.

-
Dude, we're pointing and laughing as hard as we can.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, A Walmart 6 at July 14, 2025 12:51 PM (L/fGl)

156 No, the problem is using the autopen without authorization (since the use of the autopen is accepted, but I'd like to see it made illegal and declared unconstitutional for any government work). It's the without authorization part that's the problem.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison
________

Agreed. I'm referring solely to the categorical pardons, and that each name be approved.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at July 14, 2025 12:51 PM (p16cu)

157 Dude, you can't even remember how sex works.
Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 12:27 PM (Riz8t)

In fairness to Biden, he is married.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at July 14, 2025 12:51 PM (ExV1e)

158 No, the problem is using the autopen without authorization (since the use of the autopen is accepted, but I'd like to see it made illegal and declared unconstitutional for any government work). It's the without authorization part that's the problem.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:49 PM (GBKbO)

And Biden is now on record saying he authorized the pardons.

And he's still (legally) competent.

So there is nothing to be done about it.

Is it corrupt and shitty? Yes. But I don't see how anyone proves Biden DIDN'T authorize those pardons, especially when he says he did.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 14, 2025 12:52 PM (uCjyK)

159 Another 'gift' of James Earl Carter, the pardoning of the draft dodgers.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 14, 2025 12:52 PM (6iQ9H)

160 The important thing we need to ask though, how does this impact blacks.

Posted by: Dr.Rev. Senator Your Highness E Buzz Miller, Esq PhD MA MS at July 14, 2025 12:49 PM (et1vG)

I'll need to consult Billy Paul...

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at July 14, 2025 12:52 PM (xcxpd)

161 "I made every decision," Mr. Biden said in a phone interview on Thursday...

An obvious but unprovable lie. Nothing will come of it. The System notches another win.

Posted by: Oddbob at July 14, 2025 12:52 PM (/y8xj)

162 Who you going to believe, noted truth teller Joe Biden or your own eyes?

Posted by: steevy at July 14, 2025 12:52 PM (YwEeS)

163 Rather than ask Biden to keep signing revised versions, his staff waited and then ran the final version thru the autopen, which they saw as…routine

This is a hilarious myth. They didn't think it was routine, they knew Biden had tapioca for a brain and just ran things as they saw fit.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 12:40 PM (dfIr7)
----
I wonder if they ever gave FJB a stack of blank paperwork, told him to sign them, and then filled out the rest of the details later.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 14, 2025 12:53 PM (7fElN)

164 I've forgotten, but did the reviews of past practice determine if any President in history had authorized autopen use for signing a pardon?

Even once?

Posted by: Huck Follywood at July 14, 2025 12:53 PM (NIwpn)

165 153 151 Ah, that troll I know and recognize.
Hello retard, welcome back.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at July 14, 2025 12:51 PM (xcxpd)

=======

He just wants to vote for Vance.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:51 PM (GBKbO)

Me too, in time.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at July 14, 2025 12:53 PM (xcxpd)

166

The Autopen is the oldest, most commonly used signing machine. It has been used by universities, government agencies, and other institutions for more than 60 years. The Autopen machines provide high quality signature replication with any common pen, pencil, or marker. Their reliability is well established and the simple design combined with our telephone support results in minimum service costs.

https://damilic.com/autopen

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at July 14, 2025 12:53 PM (63Dwl)

167 And, the idea that presidents are intimately familiar with any judicial nominee outside of the couple of weeks before nominating one for SCOTUS seems...misplaced.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer

Some powers may be delegated.
Others not so much.

Posted by: Operator Error at July 14, 2025 12:54 PM (tm0oK)

168 Epstein materials late Oct 2026.

Maybe leak a little in the meantime. Chum the waters.

Posted by: torabora at July 14, 2025 12:54 PM (DoOmQ)

169 The Founders never thought someone as nakedly corrupt as Biden could become President.

Posted by: blaster at July 14, 2025 12:54 PM (RoO7G)

170 67
"Here's the Fauci pardon, Mr. President."

"What?"

"Just say we can run this through the autopen, sir. It's the Fauci pardon."

"Huh?"

"Just say yes, sir."

"Yes, sir."

This would be "doing it right," by the way.

just take the standard requisition form, strike out where it says "machine gun" and write in "pardon".

Posted by: radar o'riley at July 14, 2025 12:54 PM (v3pYe)

171 How do we know it really was Joey Bidet on the phone?

After all we have an AI bot using a recreation of James Earl Jone's voice for Darth Vader in a video game.

It was Otto Voice.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 14, 2025 12:54 PM (6iQ9H)

172 I wonder if they ever gave FJB a stack of blank paperwork, told him to sign them, and then filled out the rest of the details later.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 14, 2025 12:53 PM (7fElN)
------------

I think this is truly a "to ask is to answer" type question.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at July 14, 2025 12:54 PM (tT6L1)

173 While I have never thought the president need personally and physically sign every individual pardon, I think the president must at least personally approve each name to be pardoned. Biden didn't do that.

Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade at July 14, 2025 12:29 PM (iFTx/)

That's not accurate.

"Draft dodgers" were pardoned as a class.
Posted by: Washington Nearsider at July 14, 2025 12:50 PM (fCgdX)
_______

True, but "class pardons" are controversial and possibly not legal. They were never challenged. But even Carter's class pardon was the result of him agreeing to the specific class. That's not what happened with Biden. He didn't pardon a class. He pardoned names -- names that he admits he didn't personally review or approve. That's more problematic than what Carter did.

Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade at July 14, 2025 12:55 PM (iFTx/)

174 The Autopen is the oldest, most commonly used signing machine. It has been used by universities, government agencies, and other institutions for more than 60 years. The Autopen machines provide high quality signature replication with any common pen, pencil, or marker. Their reliability is well established and the simple design combined with our telephone support results in minimum service costs.

https://damilic.com/autopen
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at July 14, 2025 12:53 PM (63Dwl)

I'm sure that's all true. Now, let's get rid of it.

Posted by: Don in SoCo who definitely sounds like a broken record at July 14, 2025 12:55 PM (vd6bO)

175 Court is not going to touch the autopen scandal.

If nobody rats anyone out it's home free.

Posted by: torabora at July 14, 2025 12:55 PM (DoOmQ)

176 JoePedo was too busy to sign those pardons. He was in a frenzy spendi.... ah giving away taxpayer money and destroying the country. A man can only do so much in the 2-3 hours of work he did a week.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable a Clear and Present Danger at July 14, 2025 12:55 PM (17s+e)

177 159 Another 'gift' of James Earl Carter, the pardoning of the draft dodgers.

draft giants > draft dodgers

Posted by: anachronda at July 14, 2025 12:56 PM (v3pYe)

178 he signed off on the standards

===

oh, OHHHH! lol

Posted by: runner at July 14, 2025 12:56 PM (g47mK)

179 Surprising absolutely nobody.

Russia set to abandon refurbishment project and decommission their sole aircraft carrier, the world’s largest mobile bonfire, RFS Admiral Kuznetsov which has not sailed since 2017.

Due to lack of funding, industrial problems and shortage of people - all largely consequence of Putins war in Ukraine.

https://is.gd/PONYm5

Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 12:56 PM (Riz8t)

180 When a Robot Signs a Bill

-
Damn robots!

https://is.gd/pqiF3a

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, A Walmart 6 at July 14, 2025 12:56 PM (L/fGl)

181 the old "signed off on the standards" ploy!

Posted by: runner at July 14, 2025 12:57 PM (g47mK)

182 The CS blade really makes a difference.
Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade at July 14, 2025 12:37 PM

I have one carbon steel Sabatier that I got from my grandmother. I don't use it much, because I prefer German profile to French profile, but I can put an edge on that thing you can shave with.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at July 14, 2025 12:57 PM (dPfyF)

183 True, but "class pardons" are controversial and possibly not legal. They were never challenged. But even Carter's class pardon was the result of him agreeing to the specific class. That's not what happened with Biden. He didn't pardon a class. He pardoned names -- names that he admits he didn't personally review or approve. That's more problematic than what Carter did.

Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade at July 14, 2025 12:55 PM (iFTx/)
---

Not so sure. Are not convicted possibly charged felons a class? And we all know they were democrats, is that not a class?

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable a Clear and Present Danger at July 14, 2025 12:57 PM (17s+e)

184
the problem is using the autopen without authorization (since the use of the autopen is accepted, but I'd like to see it made illegal and declared unconstitutional for any government work). It's the without authorization part that's the problem.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

===============

Everyone along the line of authority will be saying "I got it from X and just forwarded it." That was Neera Tanden's story, and it will be up and down, always ending at Biden, who has already given his answer. Maybe this whole presidential pardon habit needs a second look.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at July 14, 2025 12:57 PM (xp7+v)

185 158 And Biden is now on record saying he authorized the pardons.

And he's still (legally) competent.

So there is nothing to be done about it.

Is it corrupt and shitty? Yes. But I don't see how anyone proves Biden DIDN'T authorize those pardons, especially when he says he did.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 14, 2025 12:52 PM (uCjyK)

========

Which bumps up against the aides' own admissions that they changed things without his knowledge.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:57 PM (GBKbO)

186 He signed off on nothing, they probably asked him if he wanted ice cream while he was watching Matlock, the answer of course being yes.

Posted by: steevy at July 14, 2025 12:58 PM (YwEeS)

187 And Biden is now on record saying he authorized the pardons.

Yeah but "authorized" is not sufficient. He has to carry them out, not some underling.

But it doesn't matter, nothing will be done about this except hopefully to make an official system by which nobody can legally do it again.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 12:58 PM (dfIr7)

188
Aaaaand good morning, happy Monday, and good to see you, ace!

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at July 14, 2025 12:58 PM (xp7+v)

189 According to me, this is my my favorite picture of the First Lady

https://tinyurl.com/yxh87hte
Posted by: Don Black at July 14, 2025 12:40 PM (AOsQT)

What a ho
Posted by: ...

It's a shovel, dude.

P.S. Nice gardening shoes.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, A Walmart 6 at July 14, 2025 12:58 PM (L/fGl)

190 180 When a Robot Signs a Bill

-
Damn robots!

https://is.gd/pqiF3a
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, A Walmart 6 at July 14, 2025 12:56 PM (L/fGl)
Yes, but can it do that with its pants halfway down its thighs while holding an HDTV?

Posted by: Don in SoCo who definitely sounds like a broken record at July 14, 2025 12:58 PM (vd6bO)

191 Trump could have a website 'The Daily Epstein' , just leak a little every day.

Posted by: torabora at July 14, 2025 12:58 PM (DoOmQ)

192 A turnip says what?

***********

*shrugs*

Beets me!

Posted by: muldoon at July 14, 2025 12:58 PM (poXs5)

193
"If I were President Biden..."
LOL
DUmmies and their fan fiction.

If I were King of the forest...

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at July 14, 2025 12:59 PM (63Dwl)

194 He signed off on nothing, they probably asked him if he wanted ice cream while he was watching Matlock, the answer of course being yes.

He was caught literally on camera saying "I don't even know what I am signing"

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 12:59 PM (dfIr7)

195 Yeah about that "phone interview" can we hear it?

Posted by: steevy at July 14, 2025 12:59 PM (YwEeS)

196 Grok claims the practice of allowing pardons to be signed by autopen has been accepted for decades, except it also says no verified use of an autopen for a pardon has been discovered.

I believe that sounds like this reported Biden Junta practice is the first verified instance of a presidential pardon signed by autopen.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at July 14, 2025 12:59 PM (3odGr)

197 Fauci is the worst, most evil person in government in the last 50 years. Fight me
----------

I'd still say Hillary, and then perhaps "Joe Biden" (the figurehead for whatever we just spent 4 years suffering under), and then Joe Biden (the evil bastard that he was before becoming the senile president).

Posted by: Crusader at July 14, 2025 12:59 PM (TN0g+)

198 Russia set to abandon refurbishment project and decommission their sole aircraft carrier, the world’s largest mobile bonfire, RFS Admiral Kuznetsov which has not sailed since 2017.

Due to lack of funding, industrial problems and shortage of people - all largely consequence of Putins war in Ukraine.

https://is.gd/PONYm5
Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 12:56 PM (Riz8t)

Bummer. Also, had nothing to do with Ukraine. The last time the Kuznetsov set out to sea, it was accompanied by a tow boat, most of the toilets didn't flush due to water issues, and when it sailed past Britain, it looked like it might have been burning peat moss for fuel with the amount of angry black smoke belching out of it.

It was a shitty ship built while the USSR was collapsing, and no one maintained it and it had problems from day one. The sister ship ended up in China, and had so many issues they just used it as a training ship.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 14, 2025 12:59 PM (uCjyK)

199 "I see no problem with his intellect."
-Jasmine Crockett

Of course you wouldn't because yours makes Biden look like a rocket scientist.

Posted by: Mike B at July 14, 2025 01:00 PM (Tvrrp)

200 196 Grok claims the practice of allowing pardons to be signed by autopen has been accepted for decades, except it also says no verified use of an autopen for a pardon has been discovered.

I believe that sounds like this reported Biden Junta practice is the first verified instance of a presidential pardon signed by autopen.
Posted by: Huck Follywood at July 14, 2025 12:59 PM (3odGr)

========

The first use of autopen by a president for a government document was under Obama. Not even 2 decades, and that wasn't even a pardon.

AI is stupid because it's not actually intelligence at all.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 01:00 PM (GBKbO)

201 It's a shovel, dude.

P.S. Nice gardening shoes.

No, it's a half-moon edging tool.

Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 01:00 PM (Riz8t)

202 He didn't pardon a class. He pardoned names -- names that he admits he didn't personally review or approve. That's more problematic than what Carter did.

Posted by: Elric The (One and Only) Blade at July 14, 2025 12:55 PM (iFTx/)

Completely agree. I was just pointing out that a president doesn't have to (at least functionally doesn't have to) approve each individual name in every case.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at July 14, 2025 01:00 PM (fCgdX)

203 And Biden is now on record saying he authorized the pardons.

And he's still (legally) competent.

So there is nothing to be done about it.
+++
But, he didn't say "my word as a biden."
If he had said that, then you could take it to the bank.
But by not saying it, I'm seeing a lot of room for doubt.

Posted by: Florida Peasant at July 14, 2025 01:00 PM (Lo97M)

204 This is actual treason

Posted by: Jupiter no rings mofo at July 14, 2025 01:00 PM (bCQL5)

205 I'm sure that's all true. Now, let's get rid of it.

I am okay with the president using one to sign stuff like those form letters they send out to kids, but not anything official.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:00 PM (dfIr7)

206 181 the old "signed off on the standards" ploy!
Posted by: runner at July 14, 2025 12:57 PM (g47mK)

Can we see the "standards" with a signature?

Posted by: Reforger at July 14, 2025 01:01 PM (lPvx2)

207 I don't like Mondays

Posted by: Skip at July 14, 2025 01:01 PM (+qU29)

208 According to me, this is my my favorite picture of the First Lady

https://tinyurl.com/yxh87hte
Posted by: Don Black

*******

She looks like she knows where the bodies are buried.

Posted by: muldoon at July 14, 2025 01:01 PM (poXs5)

209 Russia's GDP is less than NYS, the fact that they can field an army at all is a major miracle, the fact they don't have a single sea worthy ACC is not surprising.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at July 14, 2025 01:02 PM (XV/Pl)

210 Bummer. Also, had nothing to do with Ukraine. The last time the Kuznetsov set out to sea, it was accompanied by a tow boat, most of the toilets didn't flush due to water issues, and when it sailed past Britain, it looked like it might have been burning peat moss for fuel with the amount of angry black smoke belching out of it.

We can disagree about the Ukraine part, but watching that thing at sea was hilarious. It looked like they were burning old tires.

Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 01:02 PM (Riz8t)

211 I don't like Mondays

Aww it sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays!

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:02 PM (dfIr7)

212 201 It's a shovel, dude.

P.S. Nice gardening shoes.

No, it's a half-moon edging tool.
Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 01:00 PM (Riz8t)

No, that's a normal shovel just at an angle...though I understand edging where Melania is concerned.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at July 14, 2025 01:02 PM (xcxpd)

213 Which bumps up against the aides' own admissions that they changed things without his knowledge.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 12:57 PM (GBKbO)

If this ever went in to a court room, all Biden has to say under oath is "I authorized my aide [XYZ] to sign these pardons on my behalf. I knew what was in them, and XYZ had my full authority to use my autopen to sign them."

That's all that would be required under contract law. I don't even know that a court would require that much under constitutional law.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 14, 2025 01:02 PM (uCjyK)

214 You bastards just won't listen!

CNN Analyst Stunned Most Americans Haven’t Believed the Climate Change Hoax for 25 Years

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, A Walmart 6 at July 14, 2025 01:02 PM (L/fGl)

215 112 According to me, this is my my favorite picture of the First Lady

https://tinyurl.com/yxh87hte
Posted by: Don Black at July 14, 2025 12:40 PM (AOsQT)

What a ho
Posted by: ... at July 14, 2025 12: Un42 PM (Qr870)

I was kinda digging that picture.

Posted by: tankdemon at July 14, 2025 01:03 PM (R256O)

216 No, it's a half-moon edging tool.
Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 01:00 PM (Riz8t)

No, that's a normal shovel just at an angle...though I understand edging where Melania is concerned.

Dang, you're correct. This is not my day.

Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 01:04 PM (Riz8t)

217 gosh these shit pebbles are so good

Posted by: Aliassmithsmith at July 14, 2025 01:04 PM (NJLgD)

218 If this ever went in to a court room, all Biden has to say under oath is "I authorized my aide [XYZ] to sign these pardons on my behalf. I knew what was in them, and XYZ had my full authority to use my autopen to sign them."

That's all that would be required under contract law. I don't even know that a court would require that much under constitutional law.
_-_-_-_

A statement like that from someone whose mental faculties were in serious question at the time just might not pass muster in a court.

Posted by: Don in SoCo who definitely sounds like a broken record at July 14, 2025 01:04 PM (vd6bO)

219 We can disagree about the Ukraine part, but watching that thing at sea was hilarious. It looked like they were burning old tires.
Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 01:02 PM (Riz8t)

That ship was well past it's useful life, well, basically from when it was built, but certainly from well before the Ukraine war. It was barely functional when they decided to try to bring it back in to full time status in the fleet in the late '90s / early '00s, and has become less functional since then.

But yes, the videos were cringeworthy to watch. Did not make the Russian navy look competent or tough or whatever it is they were going for.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 14, 2025 01:05 PM (uCjyK)

220 Pardon Power by the President implies as the 1789 Constitution saw it. We know Jefferson had an autopen but did he use it for Presidential signatures? When was it first used?

Posted by: torabora at July 14, 2025 01:05 PM (DoOmQ)

221 @207

>>I don't like Mondays

Actually, Thursdays are the worst.

Monday's is when you find out all of the sh*t that's gone wrong from late last week/weekend and you can work on it.

Thursdays is when you have to do labor and resource planning and all the complications that entails.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at July 14, 2025 01:05 PM (XV/Pl)

222 That's all that would be required under contract law. I don't even know that a court would require that much under constitutional law.

I think it takes more than just a general "I said it was cool for him to sign for me" for important documents; the more important the more stringent.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:05 PM (dfIr7)

223 Heh, I watched the end of Cocaine Bear. The wife and I enjoyed it. We will have to watch the front of the movie now. This was Ray Liotta's last performance. Loved that guy.

Posted by: pudinhead at July 14, 2025 01:06 PM (W3T6M)

224 212 201 It's a shovel, dude.

Ha! I thought you were making an autopen argument.

Posted by: Don in SoCo at July 14, 2025 01:06 PM (vd6bO)

225 Dear Drew Holden, THE PARTY IS ALWAYS RIGHT.

Posted by: The Party at July 14, 2025 01:06 PM (Pce4l)

226 A statement like that from someone whose mental faculties were in serious question at the time just might not pass muster in a court.
Posted by: Don in SoCo who definitely sounds like a broken record at July 14, 2025 01:04 PM (vd6bO)

It is very difficult to be declared incompetent by a court, and even moreso to be declared incompetent for something you did years / months ago.

As you can imagine, this comes up quite a bit in the probate world.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 14, 2025 01:06 PM (uCjyK)

227 Posted by: Aliassmithsmith at July 14, 2025 01:04 PM (NJLgD)

=======

Biden pardoned nearly 8000 people.

Stupid troll is stupid.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 01:06 PM (GBKbO)

228 My understanding is a aide doesn't get the Presidential right to make pardons

Posted by: Skip at July 14, 2025 01:07 PM (+qU29)

229 ========

The first use of autopen by a president for a government document was under Obama. Not even 2 decades, and that wasn't even a pardon.

AI is stupid because it's not actually intelligence at all.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 01:00 PM (GBKbO)
================
That isn't accurate, claims the internet, which says 2005 was first recorded use of a modern autopen device, under Bush.

As far as AI goes it doesn't need to be intelligent to do a review of news stories about past practice, which is what it did here.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at July 14, 2025 01:07 PM (3odGr)

230 Joe's autopen should have a built-in ""pill-rolling" tremor...

...to add to the illusion of authenticity.

Posted by: muldoon at July 14, 2025 01:07 PM (poXs5)

231 CNN Analyst Stunned Most Americans Haven’t Believed the Climate Change Hoax for 25 Years

Obviously because they haven't talked about enough or in dire enough terms. I'm sure they'll be correcting that real soon now.

Posted by: Oddbob at July 14, 2025 01:07 PM (/y8xj)

232 I think it all sort of gets to the idea of a bloated executive in general.

There's supposed to be A President. One person. They can hire advisors to do research and manage things and generally help out, but that one person should be calling all the shots.

But, of course, delegation happens. For better or worse, the job has become too big for one person to do on their own. At what point does that delegation become unconstitutional?

"Put together a list of people who fit this description so I can pardon them all."

"You take point on running negotiations between East Trashcanistan and Barehandedasswipeland, i've got other things to do."

"This is Bob. Everyone do what Bob says from now on."

Posted by: Warai-otoko at July 14, 2025 01:07 PM (VoAdT)

233 Remember how they managed Obama with the checkboxes?
Three choices, the first and last being extreme but the middle, the one they wanted, was then comparably reasonable.
[ . . . ]
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at July 14, 2025 12:33 PM (JThEY)

remember the rumor that they tried to manage Trump the same way, and Trump's response was, "well, OK. A giant smoking crater is a positive outcome as far as I can see"

Posted by: Kindltot at July 14, 2025 01:07 PM (D7oie)

234 228 My understanding is a aide doesn't get the Presidential right to make pardons
Posted by: Skip at July 14, 2025 01:07 PM (+qU29)

You’re wrong. It says so, right there in the Constitution.

Posted by: Some federal judge at July 14, 2025 01:08 PM (Pce4l)

235 And the Supreme Court would rule in a way that resulted in nothing being reversed or punished, but from that point on requiring the president personally to sign impactful things like pardons and executive orders.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (dfIr7)

On camera. With someone, preferably the President, stating what it was that he was signing.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at July 14, 2025 01:08 PM (ExV1e)

236 It is very difficult to be declared incompetent by a court, and even moreso to be declared incompetent for something you did years / months ago.

Probably impossible, barring an official admission by the doctor that he was incompetent in the past, which is likely why Biden's doctor is ducking a congressional subpoena.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:08 PM (dfIr7)

237 229 That isn't accurate, claims the internet, which says 2005 was first recorded use of a modern autopen device, under Bush.

As far as AI goes it doesn't need to be intelligent to do a review of news stories about past practice, which is what it did here.
Posted by: Huck Follywood at July 14, 2025 01:07 PM (3odGr)

=======

W didn't use the autopen to sign any government document.

His legal team explored the legality of it, but he never did it.

Again, Grok is stupid and can't even read well.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 01:08 PM (GBKbO)

238 I think it takes more than just a general "I said it was cool for him to sign for me" for important documents; the more important the more stringent.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:05 PM (dfIr7)

Maybe it should work that way, but generally speaking it doesn't.

I don't know if there's any caselaw on this specific situation (governor or President delegating signing of a pardon to an underling), but I don't think a Court would create a whole new standard for this very rare and politically fraught of a situation.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 14, 2025 01:08 PM (uCjyK)

239 Call me crazy (many have) but I think the Preznit should literally, and by his own hand, sign the really important stuff.

I would allow the autopen for the Preznit's Christmas card list, post-it notes on the refrigerator, stuff like that.

Posted by: Don Black at July 14, 2025 01:08 PM (AOsQT)

240 According to me, this is my my favorite picture of the First Lady
https://tinyurl.com/yxh87hte
Posted by: Don Black

"Compost your enemies"

Posted by: Kindltot at July 14, 2025 01:09 PM (D7oie)

241
But, of course, delegation happens. For better or worse, the job has become too big for one person to do on their own. At what point does that delegation become unconstitutional?

Take the military point of view. You can delegate authority but you CANNOT delegate responsibility.

Posted by: Cow Demon at July 14, 2025 01:09 PM (Pce4l)

242 232
Yup.

Posted by: Don in SoCo at July 14, 2025 01:09 PM (vd6bO)

243 Da fuq?

Walmart recalls 850,000 stainless steel water bottles after lids "forcefully eject," blind two people

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, A Walmart 6 at July 14, 2025 01:09 PM (L/fGl)

244 Biden pardoned or gave clemency to far more than any other president. Most of the people Trump pardoned were J6ers and should never have been charged at all.

Bill Clinton 1993–2001 459

George W. Bush 2001–2009 200

Barack Obama 2009–2017 1,927

Donald Trump 2017–2021, 2025–present 1,700 Includes approximately 1,500 pardoned for January 6 attacks (which, as we all know, were utter BS)

Joe Biden 2021–2025 4,245

https://is.gd/T0jQAZ

Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 01:09 PM (Riz8t)

245 Writer's cramp shouldn't be a problem for the most powerful man in the world.

Posted by: Don Black at July 14, 2025 01:09 PM (AOsQT)

246 If this ever went in to a court room, all Biden has to say under oath is "I authorized my aide [XYZ] to sign these pardons on my behalf. I knew what was in them, and XYZ had my full authority to use my autopen to sign them."

That's all that would be required under contract law. I don't even know that a court would require that much under constitutional law.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 14, 2025 01:02 PM (uCjyK)
================
the 2005 DOJ guidance apparently requires contemporaneous written authorization to use the device, so I think you might be wrong in thinking an after-the-fact verbal statement would be enough.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at July 14, 2025 01:10 PM (3odGr)

247 244 Joe Biden 2021–2025 4,245

https://is.gd/T0jQAZ
Posted by: Archimedes at July 14, 2025 01:09 PM (Riz8t)

=======

The Biden numbers are bigger than they appear.

This includes the classes of people we're talking about. Individualizing those takes it up to almost 8000.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 01:10 PM (GBKbO)

248 > If this ever went in to a court room, all Biden has to say under oath is "I authorized my aide [XYZ] to sign these pardons on my behalf. I knew what was in them, and XYZ had my full authority to use my autopen to sign them."

I've been saying this for a while on this site and others. We all know that if and when Biden says this, it's a bald faced lie, but that doesn't matter. It'll be the end of the case.

Posted by: bonhomme at July 14, 2025 01:10 PM (lIio7)

249 Biden pardoned nearly 8000 people.

Stupid troll is stupid.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 01:06 PM (GBKbO)

It’s mad that he didn’t pardon everybody in federal prison.

Posted by: Cow Demon at July 14, 2025 01:10 PM (Pce4l)

250 This would be "doing it right," by the way.

just take the standard requisition form, strike out where it says "machine gun" and write in "pardon".
Posted by: radar o'riley at July 14, 2025 12:54 PM (v3pYe)

Lol. That must have been the last three years of his presidency.

Except in this case it's evil radar orielly

Posted by: Cuthbert the Witless at July 14, 2025 01:11 PM (OA79/)

251 That isn't accurate, claims the internet, which says 2005 was first recorded use of a modern autopen device, under Bush.

There's a critical difference here: Bush used the modern autopen to make a signature, but it was not on an official document. Obama was the first to use the autopen to sign an official document (signing a bill into law). Presidents back as far as Jefferson have used a version of the autopen to sign things, but not things like bills, pardons, executive orders, etc. For pretty obvious reasons.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:11 PM (dfIr7)

252 Mondays are ok.

Posted by: nurse ratched at July 14, 2025 01:11 PM (21WNI)

253 249
It’s mad that he didn’t pardon everybody in federal prison.
Posted by: Cow Demon at July 14, 2025 01:10 PM (Pce4l)
=======

Oh, I'd forgotten that wet dream. Hot topic for about 3 hours in mid-January.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 01:11 PM (GBKbO)

254 Da fuq?

Walmart recalls 850,000 stainless steel water bottles after lids "forcefully eject," blind two people
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, A Walmart 6 at July 14, 2025 01:09 PM (L/fGl)
-----
Were they drinking Mentos/Diet Coke cocktails at the time?

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 14, 2025 01:11 PM (7fElN)

255 Probably impossible, barring an official admission by the doctor that he was incompetent in the past, which is likely why Biden's doctor is ducking a congressional subpoena.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:08 PM (dfIr7)

His personal doctor or personal lawyer getting on the stand saying "he was incompetent when he signed the pardons" would probably be at least somewhat persuasive, but even then, I don't think a court would undo those signatures, even if Biden was a nobody and the documents in question were for home equity loans or something else.

In the world of Wills, the standard for competence is something like the person understands they're making a will, they know generally what assets they have, and they can identify their closest heirs / family members.

It's a pretty low bar to be considered legally competent.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 14, 2025 01:12 PM (uCjyK)

256
It’s mad that he didn’t pardon everybody in federal prison.
Posted by: Cow Demon at July 14, 2025 01:10 PM (Pce4l)
-------------

There was only 1 autopen available. Else they might have.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at July 14, 2025 01:12 PM (tT6L1)

257 214 You bastards just won't listen!

CNN Analyst Stunned Most Americans Haven’t Believed the Climate Change Hoax for 25 Years
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, A Walmart 6 at July 14, 2025 01:02 PM (L/fGl)

======

Temperatures have risen markedly in just the past 3-4 weeks.

Posted by: Oglebay at July 14, 2025 01:12 PM (2ap+5)

258 235 And the Supreme Court would rule in a way that resulted in nothing being reversed or punished, but from that point on requiring the president personally to sign impactful things like pardons and executive orders.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 12:42 PM (dfIr7)

On camera. With someone, preferably the President, stating what it was that he was signing.

_-_-_
...which would be a significant improvement even at that.

Posted by: Don in SoCo at July 14, 2025 01:13 PM (vd6bO)

259 So "autopen" now pretty much equates to a chop in imperial japan or china, then?

Whoever can get their hands on one has the full power of the emperor?

Neat.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at July 14, 2025 01:14 PM (VoAdT)

260 Again, Grok is stupid and can't even read well.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 01:08 PM (GBKbO)

AI isn’t.

Posted by: Cow Demon at July 14, 2025 01:14 PM (Pce4l)

261 Here is how I see it. If the Constitution gives the president the power to do something, then he has to do it. Either he has to read and sign it personally, or he has to write it personally. He cannot delegate someone else to write and sign it with a general authorization because then the president is not doing it.

The Constitution does not permit the Executive Department to issue pardons any more than it does the department to sign legislation into law.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:14 PM (dfIr7)

262 I've been saying this for a while on this site and others. We all know that if and when Biden says this, it's a bald faced lie, but that doesn't matter. It'll be the end of the case.
Posted by: bonhomme at July 14, 2025 01:10 PM (lIio7)

Right. If he says "I authorized it", even if we all think he's lying, that's good enough.

Unless a court takes the extraordinary step of saying he was incompetent during the last few years of his presidency, which would cause a constitutional crisis, and is not something courts are ever eager to do (both cause constitutional crisises and declaring people retroactively incompetent)

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 14, 2025 01:14 PM (uCjyK)

263 AI isn’t.
Posted by: Cow Demon at July 14, 2025 01:14 PM (Pce4l)

PI - Pseudo Intelligence

Posted by: Kindltot at July 14, 2025 01:14 PM (D7oie)

264 A capitalist at heart.

Trump makes deal for NATO to buy weapons from us instead of getting them for free

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, A Walmart 6 at July 14, 2025 01:14 PM (L/fGl)

265 ...which would be a significant improvement even at that.

it would be, and should be the case, and I hope they so rule

no it doesn't mitigate the damage done by the Dems here, but we are better off going forward

Posted by: BlackOrchid at July 14, 2025 01:16 PM (Pv3Rg)

266 The Constitution does not permit the Executive Department to issue pardons any more than it does the department to sign legislation into law.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:14 PM (dfIr7)
------------

You're overlooking the "Power of Attorney" clause in the Constitution.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at July 14, 2025 01:16 PM (tT6L1)

267 262 Right. If he says "I authorized it", even if we all think he's lying, that's good enough.

Unless a court takes the extraordinary step of saying he was incompetent during the last few years of his presidency, which would cause a constitutional crisis, and is not something courts are ever eager to do (both cause constitutional crisises and declaring people retroactively incompetent)
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 14, 2025 01:14 PM (uCjyK)

========

A court case over a specific person granted clemency, undone by Trump EO, that leads to an actual exchange of evidence where Biden can say, "I authorized everything," and his aide says, "I changed the terms of the batch and ran it through the autopen," is not an open and shut, "Well, Biden authorized it."

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 01:16 PM (GBKbO)

268 I seem to remember Kennedy being the first or maybe Johnson. Something about being on an airplane when a document needed signing.

Posted by: Reforger at July 14, 2025 01:16 PM (lPvx2)

269 232 But, of course, delegation happens. For better or worse, the job has become too big for one person to do on their own. At what point does that delegation become unconstitutional?

"Put together a list of people who fit this description so I can pardon them all."

"You take point on running negotiations between East Trashcanistan and Barehandedasswipeland, i've got other things to do."

"This is Bob. Everyone do what Bob says from now on."

"this is chatgpt. everyone do what chatgpt says from now on."

Posted by: the slippery slope to landru at July 14, 2025 01:16 PM (v3pYe)

270 W didn't use the autopen to sign any government document.

His legal team explored the legality of it, but he never did it.

Again, Grok is stupid and can't even read well.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 01:08 PM (GBKbO)
=================
You're arguing with the worng person, take it up with Musk. And words like "stupid" or "intelligent" don't apply to AI. It is very useful in some tasks, I would argue, and reviewing accumulated data is certainly one such.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at July 14, 2025 01:16 PM (PWqrv)

271 270 You're arguing with the worng person, take it up with Musk. And words like "stupid" or "intelligent" don't apply to AI. It is very useful in some tasks, I would argue, and reviewing accumulated data is certainly one such.
Posted by: Huck Follywood at July 14, 2025 01:16 PM (PWqrv)

========

Primary sources > AI.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 01:17 PM (GBKbO)

272 In England, a significant period of history was "The Regency," from 1788 to 1820, when King George !!! was "intermittently" insane so Parliament basically took power away from him (without him really realizing it), while various functionaries, and later the Prince of Wales, ran the country in his stead.

Biden's term in office was basically The American Regency, with a demented leader occasionally remembering that he's the president, while meanwhile his underlings and family members ran the nation.

But in England this was openly acknowledged and is an official period of history. In America, we live in a web of lies, and the media and the intelligentsia won't even admit it happened.

Posted by: zombie at July 14, 2025 01:17 PM (pMi6S)

273 That ship was well past it's useful life

The age of the carrier, in a conflict between peers, is likely over. It's useful as a mobile air base when dealing with minor powers but Russia isn't concerned about maintaining SLOC so there's no reason to hang on to an expense.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at July 14, 2025 01:17 PM (ExV1e)

274 His personal doctor or personal lawyer getting on the stand saying "he was incompetent when he signed the pardons" would probably be at least somewhat persuasive, but even then, I don't think a court would undo those signatures, even if Biden was a nobody and the documents in question were for home equity loans or something else.

Unfortunately, the way things are, the more impactful an act, the sloppier the requirements and response. The president kicks a dog: probably impeached. The president signs an executive order telling the DOJ to send powerful weapons to Cartels hoping they will kill enough Americans to move the culture to ban guns? We can't do anything about that, it would be too damaging to our very way of life!"

Its like the housing collapse. Big companies doing horrendous and stupid things cannot be punished, they're too big!

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:17 PM (dfIr7)

275 Just think what a political party could accomplish at the ballot box with a handful of strategically placed autopens.

Posted by: muldoon at July 14, 2025 01:18 PM (poXs5)

276 Something tells me Sarbanes Oxley was written excluding government. Because under that disaster of a bill all executives are liable for their functionary's malfeasance.

SarBox should apply to all parts of the country or none at all.

Posted by: every libertarian at July 14, 2025 01:18 PM (mlg/3)

277
Obviously because they haven't talked about enough or in dire enough terms. I'm sure they'll be correcting that real soon now.
Posted by: Oddbob

===============

Original story: Godzilla has left Japan and is advancing across the floor of the Pacific Ocean, ETA in San Francisco three months from now.

Updated, more convincing story: TEN GODZILLAS have left Japan and are advancing across the floor of the Pacific Ocean, ETA in San Francisco ONE MONTH from now.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at July 14, 2025 01:18 PM (xp7+v)

278 It is very useful in some tasks, I would argue, and reviewing accumulated data is certainly one such.
_-_-_

Yup. A very nice interface to very large datasets. A true timesaver, but not a "thinker".

Posted by: Don in SoCo at July 14, 2025 01:18 PM (vd6bO)

279 My understanding is a aide doesn't get the Presidential right to make pardons
Posted by: Skip at July 14, 2025 01:07 PM (+qU29)

Reality suggests that your understanding is incorrect.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at July 14, 2025 01:18 PM (ExV1e)

280 You're overlooking the "Power of Attorney" clause in the Constitution.

Is that the same section as the Good n Plenty clause?

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:18 PM (dfIr7)

281 A capitalist at heart.

Trump makes deal for NATO to buy weapons from us instead of getting them for free
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, A Walmart 6 at July 14, 2025 01:14 PM (L/fGl)

The EU is going to have to borrow US Dollars to afford them, since the Euro is decreasing in value, and the chances that the EU as an economy is going to increase enough in the face of their net-zero and social welfare increases to afford non inflationary Euros is pretty slim

Oh, and THEY HAVE TO PAY POWELL'S HIGH INTEREST RATE!!!!!

How does "we can censor anyone anywhere anyhow and fine foreign companies if we feel like it" feel now, Queen Ursula?

Posted by: Kindltot at July 14, 2025 01:18 PM (D7oie)

282 I’m a Christian man, but even God had his limits. These people knowingly and with malice usurped the office of our president, that is, the office of the people, corrupted the entire government for their purposes, and then pardoned the people involved with stealing our liberty and undermining the constitution. There are a lot of people who paid the price for that with their lives, careers and livelihoods. If you’re in that generation, you will never forget this, nor should you. It’s just one reason amongst many the Democrat Party should never have power again.

In a just and right world we would be preparing the crucifixion for these people.

Posted by: Marcus T at July 14, 2025 01:19 PM (ofdHm)

283 No rest for the weary
Have a great afternoon everyone

Posted by: Skip at July 14, 2025 01:20 PM (+qU29)

284 Someone should make a Netflix series about the Biden era White House, but everyone is wearing 1810's fashions like in a Jane Austen novel.

Posted by: zombie at July 14, 2025 01:20 PM (pMi6S)

285 Pixy earlier in the year:

With Joe Biden's recent pardoning of his catspaw son Hunter, journalists were driven to defend him by digging up the little-known pardons of family members by former presidents, like George H. W. Bush's pardoning of his son Neil, or Woodrow Wilson's pardon for his brother-in-law.   The problem is, these things never happened.Whatever happened in this case, there's a running pattern of people relying on ChatGPT or other AI services to provide answers, only to get hallucinations in return. Perhaps you remember earlier this year when a trailer for Francis Ford Coppola's Megalopolis was pulled because it contained fabricated quotes from critics. A generative AI, not identified, had made them up. In fact, ChatGPT is often "entirely wrong," according to the Columbia Journalism Review. Given 200 quotes and asked to identify the publisher that was the source of those quotes, ChatGPT was partially or entirely wrong more than three-quarters of the time. Journalists, being journalists, asked ChatGPT to do their research for them.  

ChatGPT, being ChatGPT, lied.  

Posted by: WitchDoktor at July 14, 2025 01:20 PM (DJPFk)

286 Its like the housing collapse. Big companies doing horrendous and stupid things cannot be punished, they're too big!

Two Americas.

You as a normie will face more severe consequences for going 5 MPH over the speed limit then Obama will for arming cartels or Biden for mandating a poison shot.

But it isn't really about "two big to fail". Its whether you are connected or not

Posted by: 18-1 at July 14, 2025 01:20 PM (t0Rmr)

287
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 01:16 PM (GBKbO)

Yes it is. It doesn't matter what his aides say, all that matters is that Biden say "I authorized those signatures."

In the same way if your wife signs your name on a credit card receipt and the credit card company says "did you authorize this?" and you say "yes" it doesn't matter if you later discovered she bought twice as many shoes as you thought she did unless you call the credit card company back and say "actually, my wife, acting as my agent, went beyond the scope of her authority and bought 2 pairs of flats when I only authorized one pair of flats." And even then, the CC company would almost certainly want to see the police report you filed against your wife.

If you don't say "I didn't authorize that!" then the assumption is that you did, especially if you publicly and openly say you did.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 14, 2025 01:20 PM (uCjyK)

288 ConLaw question/thought experiment....

Imagine a president issued a blanket standing order that anything Congress can manage to get to his desk is automatically signed, regardless of content?

Any bill that gets to his office goes straight into the autopen and gets a signature.

Would that be allowed? Would the courts reject it? Would the courts be -able- to reject it?

Is that really fundamentally different than a President saying "Whatever pardons you monkeys can crank out of your sick little imaginations have my blessing"?

At what point is "The President said it's cool" no longer enough of a hook on which to hang the official affairs of the executive branch?

Posted by: Warai-otoko at July 14, 2025 01:21 PM (VoAdT)

289 Nice to see NYT go super-formal when it comes to Biden's name, like that's going to make things better somehow.

Posted by: Octochicken at July 14, 2025 01:21 PM (oCS0o)

290 Won't somebody think of the tamales?

Dave Matt@davematt88
The woman who sells tamales in my neighborhood has been deported.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, A Walmart 6 at July 14, 2025 01:21 PM (L/fGl)

291 If Elon Musk wants to do some good, he should back the removal of these pardons and the prosecution of people like Fauci.

Posted by: Marcus T at July 14, 2025 01:21 PM (ofdHm)

292 Trump should issue pardons for all federal tax cases during his term. Tell Everybody to stop paying any fed taxes and let The Autopen do it's Constitutional duty.

Posted by: Accomack at July 14, 2025 01:21 PM (28cZF)

293 Sorry, the Pixy quote needed context. Someone mentioned Grok and AI for summarizing news stuff.

Posted by: WitchDoktor at July 14, 2025 01:21 PM (DJPFk)

294 I’m a Christian man, but even God had his limits.

Indeed. But it's not up to us to say where they are.

Posted by: Oddbob at July 14, 2025 01:21 PM (/y8xj)

295 My understanding is a aide doesn't get the Presidential right to make pardons

I think pretty much everyone understands it that way, but barring some official statement or law passed by congress, effectively, there's nothing to stop a president from delegating everything. Or having it delegated for them.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:21 PM (dfIr7)

296 Primary sources > AI.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 01:17 PM (GBKbO)

What is this whole primary source kick you are suddenly on? Is it a meme? Are you making a meme?

Posted by: ... at July 14, 2025 01:22 PM (Qr870)

297 287 Yes it is. It doesn't matter what his aides say, all that matters is that Biden say "I authorized those signatures."

In the same way if your wife signs your name on a credit card receipt and the credit card company says "did you authorize this?" and you say "yes" it doesn't matter if you later discovered she bought twice as many shoes as you thought she did unless you call the credit card company back and say "actually, my wife, acting as my agent, went beyond the scope of her authority and bought 2 pairs of flats when I only authorized one pair of flats." And even then, the CC company would almost certainly want to see the police report you filed against your wife.

If you don't say "I didn't authorize that!" then the assumption is that you did, especially if you publicly and openly say you did.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 14, 2025 01:20 PM (uCjyK)

========

You're applying contract law to a constitutional question.

Why do you keep doing that?

The power of pardon is plenary in the president, not his aides who admit to changing things and not getting clearance from the president.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, searching for thrills with John Frankenheimer at July 14, 2025 01:22 PM (GBKbO)

298 Nood. Kolleg.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at July 14, 2025 01:22 PM (ExV1e)

299 Someone should make a Netflix series about the Biden era White House, but everyone is wearing 1810's fashions like in a Jane Austen novel.

Oh verily has anyone seen my snuff box? And Lady Biden please do not tell me you "found" it in your unmentionables again.

Posted by: Baron Hunter Biden facing the viscountess of life at July 14, 2025 01:22 PM (t0Rmr)

300 282 I’m a Christian man...
...In a just and right world we would be preparing the crucifixion for these people.
Posted by: Marcus T

While I agree with you 100% politically, on theological terms, if we crucify them, wouldn't elevate them to the status of saintly martyrs and saviors?

Posted by: zombie at July 14, 2025 01:22 PM (pMi6S)

301 The woman who sells tamales in my neighborhood has been deported.
-------

I'll take Things That Never Happened and/or Incomplete Stories for 500, Alex

Posted by: ... at July 14, 2025 01:23 PM (Qr870)

302 The power of pardon is plenary in the president...
---------
Can antibiotics fix this plenary thing?

Posted by: pudinhead at July 14, 2025 01:23 PM (W3T6M)

303 Updated, more convincing story: TEN GODZILLAS have left Japan and are advancing across the floor of the Pacific Ocean, ETA in San Francisco ONE MONTH from now.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia

I alone apparently remember that the West Coast US was going to be devastated by nooklear fallout from Fukushima. In 2008.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 14, 2025 01:23 PM (mlg/3)

304 Unfortunately, the way things are, the more impactful an act, the sloppier the requirements and response. The president kicks a dog: probably impeached. The president signs an executive order telling the DOJ to send powerful weapons to Cartels hoping they will kill enough Americans to move the culture to ban guns? We can't do anything about that, it would be too damaging to our very way of life!"

Its like the housing collapse. Big companies doing horrendous and stupid things cannot be punished, they're too big!
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:17 PM (dfIr7)

Cynical take, but certainly some truth in that.

And don't get me wrong, I think everyone in government and banking and big business should be held to the same standards as the rest of us, if not higher standards. If the bank lost the physical note proving you owe them money, that certainly sounds like it's the banks problem and not mine.

But unfortunately, that's not the world we live in.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 14, 2025 01:24 PM (uCjyK)

305 The woman who sells tamales in my neighborhood has been deported.

yay!

hey Dave loads of peeps can make tamales

Posted by: BlackOrchid at July 14, 2025 01:24 PM (Pv3Rg)

306 "President Mush Brain was right there in WH when most of the pardons were produced.
Why not just sign them"

Exactly. It's not like he was solving world hunger or bringing about world peace or anything. I mean, he was awake at least 4 hours a day (I think). Give the old bastard something to do.

Posted by: Mike B at July 14, 2025 01:24 PM (Tvrrp)

307 But it isn't really about "two big to fail". Its whether you are connected or not

And it always has been that way. And probably always should. But its violently opposed to the American ideal and dream.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:24 PM (dfIr7)

308 While I agree with you 100% politically, on theological terms, if we crucify them, wouldn't elevate them to the status of saintly martyrs and saviors?

The Romans crucified a lot of people who weren't at all tied to Christianity.

When they crushed Spartacus's revolt they crucified thousands of prisoners along the Appian way. Speaking of which...never surrender to the Romans, better to die with a sword in your face...

Posted by: 18-1 at July 14, 2025 01:24 PM (t0Rmr)

309 >Original story: Godzilla has left Japan and is advancing across the floor of the Pacific Ocean, ETA in San Francisco three months from now.
---

So, Godzilla can't swim.

Posted by: Don Black at July 14, 2025 01:24 PM (AOsQT)

310 But in England this was openly acknowledged and is an official period of history. In America, we live in a web of lies, and the media and the intelligentsia won't even admit it happened.
Posted by: zombie
_______

Henry VI as well. He went practically catatonic for a while.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at July 14, 2025 01:25 PM (p16cu)

311
Dave Matt@davematt88
The woman who sells tamales in my neighborhood has been deported.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks

===============

She had a good run, and now the jig's up.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at July 14, 2025 01:25 PM (xp7+v)

312 >> While I agree with you 100% politically, on theological terms, if we crucify them, wouldn't elevate them to the status of saintly martyrs and saviors?
Posted by: zombie at July 14, 2025 01:22 PM (pMi6S)

The Roman Army used crucifixion because it was a brutal, painful, drawn out and almost inhuman death. The fact that is was used on Jesus Christ and other martyrs is simple consequential and religiously insignificant.

Posted by: Marcus T at July 14, 2025 01:25 PM (ofdHm)

313 The woman who sells tamales in my neighborhood has been deported.

Lefty boards are full of people complaining they had their landscaper/nanny deported...

Posted by: 18-1 at July 14, 2025 01:25 PM (t0Rmr)

314 Pixy earlier in the year:

With Joe Biden's recent pardoning of his catspaw son Hunter, journalists were driven to defend him by digging up the little-known pardons of family members by former presidents, like George H. W. Bush's pardoning of his son Neil, or Woodrow Wilson's pardon for his brother-in-law.   The problem is, these things never happened.Whatever happened in this case, there's a running pattern of people relying on ChatGPT or other AI services to provide answers, only to get hallucinations in return. ...  

ChatGPT, being ChatGPT, lied.  
Posted by: WitchDoktor at July 14, 2025 01:20 PM (DJPFk)

Also see Pixy's Daily Tech News from Saturday July 12:
"The problem is that AI is helpful when you don't know what you are doing - coincidentally in precisely the situations where you are unable to judge how useful they are.

When you know what you are doing, they are of less value. Of less than no value, on average.

So the best approach to taking advantage of AI is to use it for tasks where you can't judge the results and don't care whether they are correct."

Posted by: Count de Monet at July 14, 2025 01:26 PM (wVcYX)

315 If the bank lost the physical note proving you owe them money, that certainly sounds like it's the banks problem and not mine.

Yeah, like those cases where a bank accidentally gives you more money than you actually have. They screwed up, yes, but if you spend the money... you should not have to pay it back. Its effectively a contract, I tell you the truth, you tell me the truth. If I mess up and write a check too big for my account, its MY fault and I have to back it. If the bank writes a check too big for my account, its on them too -- or it should be.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:27 PM (dfIr7)

316 I think if someone really does some research they'll find that the radicals were, pretty much, running the show. There are inklings of this in some of the Agency policies that popped up of a substantive nature without comment from the White House until after someone noticed and made some noise.

A good example, I think, is when the US Consumer Product Safety office decided that they were going to ban gas stoves. The White House only got involved when the feedback was so negative and it became a story and they had to do damage control.

Instance like that suggest that everyone was trying to slip through their pet issues, and Biden had no clue what was going on. I have no doubt that his radical advisors were cheering on some of these issues behind the scenes.

Posted by: Orson at July 14, 2025 01:27 PM (dIske)

317 The Roman Army used crucifixion because it was a brutal, painful, drawn out and almost inhuman death. The fact that is was used on Jesus Christ and other martyrs is simple consequential and religiously insignificant.

I ran across an interesting note that Carthage used it as well, often on defeated generals which was not a particularly good choice since if you faced any real possibility of defeat why would you fight?

Posted by: 18-1 at July 14, 2025 01:27 PM (t0Rmr)

318 Autopen shit my pants!

Posted by: President Joe at July 14, 2025 01:29 PM (Vu7A1)

319 Japan should rename one of its aircraft carriers to JS Godzilla.

Posted by: runner at July 14, 2025 01:30 PM (g47mK)

320 Yup. A very nice interface to very large datasets. A true timesaver, but not a "thinker".
Posted by: Don in SoCo at July 14, 2025 01:18 PM (vd6bO)
============
well stated. We also use it for what might otherwise be described as "machine learning" tasks, in our software business. For example, we set up individually unique image recognition tasks (templates really) using an AI, where we have trained it using thousands of similar such tasks previously set up by programmers. It's been fantastic for this purpose.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at July 14, 2025 01:30 PM (LkicY)

321 I think if someone really does some research they'll find that the radicals were, pretty much, running the show. There are inklings of this in some of the Agency policies that popped up of a substantive nature without comment from the White House until after someone noticed and made some noise.

In a way, we were saved a lot of horrors by that. Anyone who has suffered through or seen footage of a meeting with these lunatics knows that they are constantly infighting, blocking each other, finding reasons why someone else's idea is evil, and so on.

Conflicting sects in the radical lefts secular religion fighting each other kept them from doing as much damage as they may have.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 14, 2025 01:32 PM (dfIr7)

322 They just, more or less, admitted that the pardons were fake.

Am I missing something here? You can't discuss broad categories of pardons, and have other people figure out who that applies to, make a list, then sign your name.

Posted by: El Mariachi - Attorney at Law at July 14, 2025 01:34 PM (gDhA9)

323 Simple way to confirm the pardons are legit... just ask each recipient for the receipt for their pardon fee, signed by Joe or Jill, of course. No problem.

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at July 14, 2025 02:01 PM (PQOq3)

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