Iran beyond the Mullahs

Above is a photo of Persian Baklava. I became familiar with this delicacy when I briefly had a young Iranian roommate (though I don't recall her ever making it.) I later made walnut baklava in a cooking class with a rich lady whose husband was part owner of the MGM Grand in Vegas (Jewish, not Iranian). A maid cleaned up after us as we cooked, but the pan wouldn't fit in her oven and we had to bake it at my aunt's house. Phyllo dough is a pain to work with in a dry climate.

Anyway, the recipe(s) above provide some good tips.

Back to my scanty recollections about Iran from my experiences with an Iranian roommate:

The only other Iranian food I remember from that time is steamed rice with a crispy crust. As noted in these directions, it comes in lots of variations. The one I remember included tomato, green beans and a stained kitchen towel from the steaming process. It was an Americanized version of the rice, for which she must have been homesick.

About this time, a bunch of Iranian guys came over to the apartment to discuss how they were going to get home safely. The political situation had already become volatile, and things were getting more worrisome . . .

I think the piece below does a pretty good job of reminding us that the Iranian revolution started as a Cold War phenomenon. It involved communists as well as Islamists. A bad combination.

Israel, Iran, and the Trump Doctrine
Brian T. Kennedy

The Case of Iran
Many today suggest that American foreign policy is led by Israel. The U.S. experience with Iran tells a different story. The Islamic Republic of Iran has been at war with the United States for almost half a century. Its enmity for the U.S. was born of our cooperation in the overthrow of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh in 1953 and the restoration of the Shah of Iran until his fall at the hands of the Iranian Revolution in 1979. The overthrow in 1953 was part of a series of Cold War considerations that the United States made with our British allies to check the influence of the Soviet Union in the Middle East and ensure Western access to oil.

The Cold War, clearly misunderstood by so many young Americans today, was an existential contest between the United States and the Soviet Union. The United States was not engaged in the democracy promotion that came to characterize the discredited and failed efforts of the Global War on Terrorism. During the Cold War the United States and our NATO allies engaged in ruthless competition with the Soviet Union and its allies, such as Communist China, North Korea, and the terrorist movements represented by the PLO in the Middle East and Communist/terrorist groups in Europe such as Baader-Meinhof, Black September, and the Red Brigades. Communist China supported these groups every bit as much as the Soviet Union did. It was a global struggle for primacy. Such is the case in world affairs. Communist China’s current support of Communist groups in the United States such as “No Kings” is a reminder of this.
It was hoped that supporting the Shah of Iran would help create a pro-Western regime that could advance pro-Western interests. . .

This piece provides a lot of useful information which I had forgotten (or had never learned). As disagreements and changes swirl around us, it is a good piece to keep in mind:

Proponents of an immediate attack to finish the Iranian nuclear program point often to Iran’s millenarian version of Shia Islam, which holds that there will be a return of the 12th Imam in the course of an apocalyptic event; it is certain some hold this view. Whether they are in power at this moment in Iran is unclear. Claremont Institute scholar and International Relations professor Angelo Codevilla would often say that the Iranians may be crazy, but they are not stupid. It will be amply clear to many in Tehran that the age of the Mullahs has come to an end.
The Persians may be an ancient people and the possessors of a once great empire, but they were conquered in the 7th century by the Arabs, who imposed Islam upon them. After 1,400 years, regular attendance at Friday Mosque services ranges from a high of 12% to perhaps as low as 1.5%, the lowest in the Middle East. That the Iranians could be liberated from this Islamic Republic and could live at peace with the West would be a highly desirable thing. To bring that about, however, will be the job of the Iranian people.

Do you have related thoughts?

From ZeroHedge, Trump's worries about the experiences with Libya. His two-week timeline concerning destruction of Iran's nuclear capabilities was not just some random idea.

* * * * *

Weekend

The Enlightenment's Gravediggers

John Hinderaker: The Week In Pictures: Down With Monarchy Edition

* * * * *

Hope you have something nice planned for this weekend.

This is the Thread before the Gardening Thread.

Serving your mid-day open thread needs

* * * * *

Posted by: K.T. at 11:01 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Nuke em.

Posted by: Commissar of plenty and festive little hats at June 21, 2025 11:01 AM (X/FL+)

2 FUN FACT: The Parthian Persians took a Roman emperor hostage.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 21, 2025 11:01 AM (hY4dx)

3 The problem is it is a mess.

More rubble, less trouble is probably the way to go. Let Israel decapitate and then just leave them to their devices. DO NOT GET INVOLVED.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 21, 2025 11:03 AM (bss/y)

4 The overthrow in 1953 was part of a series of Cold War considerations that the United States made with our British allies to check the influence of the Soviet Union in the Middle East and ensure Western access to oil.

------

But mostly to control access to oil.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 11:04 AM (5ntSy)

5 2 FUN FACT: The Parthian Persians took a Roman emperor hostage.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 21, 2025 11:01 AM (hY4dx)

That was a very long running flame war.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 21, 2025 11:04 AM (bss/y)

6 First job: Worked for an Armenian guy selling homemade baklava and ice cream.
Half the ice cream flavors used alcohol as an ingredient.

Man, it was a tough job!

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 21, 2025 11:07 AM (nmCEc)

7 I could eat baklava by the truckload.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at June 21, 2025 11:08 AM (dR6yv)

8 If, for whatever reason, the 12th Imam is unable to fulfill his duties, well, you know the rest.

Here's hoping!

Posted by: The 13th Imam at June 21, 2025 11:09 AM (Y1sOo)

9 At one time, long ago, didn't the French have some sort of influence in Iran?

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 21, 2025 11:10 AM (Q4IgG)

10 The few Iranians I've known kicked ass at ping pong. All of them.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at June 21, 2025 11:10 AM (ITkJX)

11 I like this: "Claremont Institute scholar and International Relations professor Angelo Codevilla would often say that the Iranians may be crazy, but they are not stupid"

Posted by: KT at June 21, 2025 11:11 AM (xekrU)

12 But mostly to control access to oil."

For the Brits, primarily. The pro communist factions saw themselves as remaking parts of the world...

Posted by: Man at June 21, 2025 11:12 AM (tubbA)

13 Long ago I briefly had a Persian roommate, we were engineers on a big paper plant build. His family had fled Iran to escape the revolution.

Khosrow was named after the Persian kings of old, and he was a wild womanizer.

Posted by: Mr Gaga at June 21, 2025 11:13 AM (zeLd4)

14 Martini Farmer, the French and Germans have a lot of trade with Iran despite sanctions.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 11:14 AM (ZIggv)

15 Morning hordemates.
I didn't really care for the baklava I tried when I was in Turkey. Too sweet.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 21, 2025 11:14 AM (W/lyH)

16 If anyone thinks Trump is reacting to what is happening in the Middle East rather than guiding it I urge you to go back and listen to the speech he gave in Saudi Arabia on his first foreign trip of his 2nd term. He purposely chose Saudia Arabia, the UAW and Qatar to help galvanize the GCC against Iran and deal with the problem once and for all. It might not have gotten big play in the US but I gaurantee every leader in the Middle East got the message.

That's why nobody is coming to help Iran. Trump told them what he was going to do and they know he means what he says. The time for choosing has come.

Here's the text.

https://tinyurl.com/dysm38kw

Posted by: JackStraw at June 21, 2025 11:15 AM (viF8m)

17 9 At one time, long ago, didn't the French have some sort of influence in Iran?

Like many despots around the world, some of the Mullahs spent time in Paris.

Posted by: KT at June 21, 2025 11:15 AM (xekrU)

18 There is an "Ette of the Horde that makes an amazing baklava. All others pale in comparison.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 11:15 AM (ZIggv)

19 UAE not the United Auto Workers

Posted by: JackStraw at June 21, 2025 11:16 AM (viF8m)

20 19 UAE not the United Auto Workers
Posted by: JackStraw at June 21, 2025 11:16 AM (viF8m)

Kind of the same.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 21, 2025 11:17 AM (bss/y)

21 For the Brits, primarily. The pro communist factions saw themselves as remaking parts of the world...
Posted by: Man at June 21, 2025 11:12 AM (tubbA)

It's funny how so much of the trouble America has gotten itself into, since the end of WWII, is essentially bailing out our so-called "allies."

Why, I seem to recall some guy, George something or other, saying something about avoiding foreign entanglements.

But that was like a hundred years ago, so.....

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 11:17 AM (5ntSy)

22 I like this: "Claremont Institute scholar and International Relations professor Angelo Codevilla would often say that the Iranians may be crazy, but they are not stupid"

See also, Tucker Carlson.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 11:18 AM (Riz8t)

23 16 If anyone thinks Trump is reacting to what is happening in the Middle East rather than guiding it I urge you to go back and listen to the speech he gave in Saudi Arabia on his first foreign trip of his 2nd term. He purposely chose Saudia Arabia, the UAW and Qatar to help galvanize the GCC against Iran and deal with the problem once and for all. It might not have gotten big play in the US but I gaurantee every leader in the Middle East got the message.

That's why nobody is coming to help Iran. Trump told them what he was going to do and they know he means what he says. The time for choosing has come.

Here's the text.

https://tinyurl.com/dysm38kw
Posted by: JackStraw at June 21, 2025 11:15 AM (viF8m)

Believe it.

Posted by: MrExcitement at June 21, 2025 11:18 AM (hOOi9)

24 1) Resource rich, do not value it.

2) Petty and childish.

3) Blue eyed zealots about their cause- which is their own enrichment.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 21, 2025 11:18 AM (bss/y)

25 >> Shia Islam, which holds that there will be a return of the 12th Imam in the course of an apocalyptic event; it is certain some hold this view. Whether they are in power at this moment in Iran is unclear.

Brian Kennedy wrote the above in his piece in The American Mind. I think he’s dead wrong. It’s not unclear at all… the Mullahs are in power and they’re Shia. Why is this unclear?? Khamanei is an American-hating fanatic and his regime has been furiously enriching uranium and cheating on agreements for as long as they’ve been in power. Furthermore that regime has been killing Americans for 46 years… the Marine barracks in Beirut in 1983; that was them.

When people have been shouting for 46 years that they want to kill you and have been engaged in that activity…. Maybe we should believe them??

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at June 21, 2025 11:18 AM (ANuwa)

26 Like many despots around the world, some of the Mullahs spent time in Paris.
Posted by: KT at June 21, 2025 11:15 AM (xekrU)

John Francois Kerry

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 11:19 AM (5ntSy)

27 ***The United States was not engaged in the democracy promotion that came to characterize the discredited and failed efforts of the Global War on Terrorism.***

Please, thank you. Nail this on a plaque beneath Ace's header.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 11:19 AM (lCWOD)

28 Iran theocrats declared war on the United States in 1979. The USA has never responded in an equitable manner. FUWar as I've heard from someone I love and trust.

Posted by: NC Ref at June 21, 2025 11:20 AM (HIRLq)

29 After 1,400 years, regular attendance at Friday Mosque services ranges from a high of 12% to perhaps as low as 1.5%, the lowest in the Middle East. That the Iranians could be liberated from this Islamic Republic and could live at peace with the West would be a highly desirable thing.

I've never heard that figure before. You'd never guess it from the news.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 11:21 AM (Riz8t)

30 >>Like many despots around the world, some of the Mullahs spent time in Paris.

Right across from the Romanian Palace of the Parliament, Ceaușescu had a whole neighborhood built modeled on the Champs-Elysees.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 21, 2025 11:22 AM (viF8m)

31 There is an "Ette of the Horde that makes an amazing baklava. All others pale in comparison.
Posted by: Ben Had

Who? I wish to inquire about a recipe.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at June 21, 2025 11:22 AM (dR6yv)

32 K.T. glad to see you back and on the mend. Hope things continue to go well.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 11:23 AM (lCWOD)

33 When people have been shouting for 46 years that they want to kill you and have been engaged in that activity…. Maybe we should believe them??
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at June 21, 2025 11:18 AM (ANuwa)

A story was told, maybe fake but accurate, during the American Civil War, in a lull in the fighting, Yanks and Rebs would should across the lines at each other.

One Yank was asking the question, apparently out of genuine curiosity "Hey Reb, why y'all fighting us?"

To which the Rebel answered "Because you're down here."

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 11:23 AM (5ntSy)

34 Well, 12th Imam or not, they're trying to build a nuclear bomb, and have been pretty enthusiastic about "Death to America!" and "Death to Israel!" They have the hard part - the enriched Uranium, so they gotta go!

Nobody is going to miss them, least of all the Iranian people.

Posted by: MrExcitement at June 21, 2025 11:24 AM (hOOi9)

35 Man! I love baklava. The best are soaked in that honey mixture until they're dense as neutronium. Easily my favorite dessert in the world. And the strange thing is I don't even like the taste of honey. Too sweet. But baklava is just some sort of ancient magic somehow and doesn't taste like pure honey.

A gyro place in South Wichatitty made the best I've ever had. Funny owner that would talk at length to me about his theories on aliens and UFOs. I think it was called Latka's or something like that. Loved that place so much. All Dust In the Wind now I'm sure. (a kansas themed comment)

Posted by: banana Dream at June 21, 2025 11:24 AM (cduTK)

36 President Trump seems to have a common theme when it comes to foreign policy.

He offers them a vision of being a first world nation among equals. All they have to do is modify their behavior. He's tried it with North Korea, the Gazans, and Iran.

Of course, those regimes are too stubborn and proud to admit there is a better way, which is why it won't work unless something forces those regimes to change by other means.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2025 11:24 AM (IBQGV)

37 One Yank was asking the question, apparently out of genuine curiosity "Hey Reb, why y'all fighting us?"

To which the Rebel answered "Because you're down here."

That story was told by Shelby Foote in Ken Burns' Civil War series.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 11:24 AM (Riz8t)

38 No really guys trust me. THIS TIME regime change in the Middle East will work.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at June 21, 2025 11:26 AM (/CkK4)

39 I kinda dated a Persian girl (or two or three). They are fiercely ‘Persian’ and not Iranian. To them, Iran is a bad word.

Anyway, the food is really good. I don’t remember the names, but it was kabobs and stews, lotsa rice and beans, and saffron. I’m not a dessert guy, so I can’t say much about the pasties or baklava.

Posted by: Elric the Bladiest Blade at June 21, 2025 11:26 AM (5cl3b)

40 I kinda dated a Persian girl (or two or three). They are fiercely ‘Persian’ and not Iranian.

Many of them have vast tracts of land.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 11:27 AM (Riz8t)

41 Sorry, huge, not vast.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 11:27 AM (Riz8t)

42 A story was told, maybe fake but accurate, during the American Civil War, in a lull in the fighting, Yanks and Rebs would should across the lines at each other.

One Yank was asking the question, apparently out of genuine curiosity "Hey Reb, why y'all fighting us?"

To which the Rebel answered "Because you're down here."
Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 11:23 AM (5ntSy)

That was Shelby Foote. Loved his Civil War books and his commentary in Ken Burns documentary; great southern drawl

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at June 21, 2025 11:27 AM (ANuwa)

43 A gyro place in South Wichatitty made the best I've ever had. Funny owner that would talk at length to me about his theories on aliens and UFOs. I think it was called Latka's or something like that. Loved that place so much. All Dust In the Wind now I'm sure. (a kansas themed comment)
Posted by: banana Dream at June 21, 2025 11:24 AM (cduTK)

Was he a taxi mechanic on the side?

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at June 21, 2025 11:28 AM (dR6yv)

44 Of course, those regimes are too stubborn and proud to admit there is a better way, which is why it won't work unless something forces those regimes to change by other means.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2025 11:24 AM (IBQGV)

Basically as all humans do. We don't like being told what to do.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 11:28 AM (5ntSy)

45 Mr. Aspirin Factory, Dash.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 11:28 AM (ZIggv)

46 The Thunderbirds are flying today as headliners at the Dayton Air Show's 50th year show, if you happen to be in central Ohio

Posted by: Hick Follywood at June 21, 2025 11:29 AM (gKoO+)

47 I can eat baklava in very small portions. It's delicious, but so rich. I don't have much of a sweet tooth.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, Macho Business Donkey Wrestler at June 21, 2025 11:29 AM (0aYVJ)

48 Here's the thing I am curious about. Do the Persians (As opposed to the Iranians) have the strength and the will to overthrow the Mullahs? Yes, we'd like to see the leadership strung up off of lampposts but the rulers still have a tight grip on things.

Posted by: NR Pax at June 21, 2025 11:29 AM (7xrfc)

49 It's funny how so much of the trouble America has gotten itself into, since the end of WWII, is essentially bailing out our so-called "allies."

...
Posted by: BurtTC
------------------------

Communism and communists were an existential threat to America. Directly. You know it.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 11:29 AM (lCWOD)

50 If I were betting on this (and you can actually bet on Kalshi) I think we do some kind of military action against Iran. It’s the American way. We spend $1T a year on the military. You have to justify that expense.

Like everything else follow the money.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at June 21, 2025 11:29 AM (/CkK4)

51 >>> Was he a taxi mechanic on the side?
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at June 21, 2025 11:28 AM (dR6yv)

Maybe? And wrastle women no doubt. I don't actually know what ethnic he was but I always enjoyed spending time with him when I had enough money to get lunch out.

Posted by: banana Dream at June 21, 2025 11:30 AM (cduTK)

52 I too happen to eat baklava only in small portions.

The problem is I have about 20 of those small portions in rapid succession.

Posted by: PabloD at June 21, 2025 11:31 AM (TgNVd)

53 No really guys trust me. THIS TIME regime change in the Middle East will work.
Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at June 21, 2025 11:26 AM (/CkK4)

I don’t support regime change. I do support giving Israel a little more time to take our Fordow on their own but if they can’t we drop one or two MOPs to eliminate their nuke capabilities and then we’re done. Whatever happens on the ground after that is up to others

This is where the debate has been too vague. There are many I believe like me who would absolutely oppose Iraq war 2.0 in Iran… but we absolutely do support dropping one or two big bombs. Iran can’t have nukes

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at June 21, 2025 11:31 AM (ANuwa)

54 Given that they already have the necessary material, I'd say the REAL question is whether you can topple the government in favor of one that isn't crazy, with air strikes, or does SOMEBODY have to do SOMETHING on the ground.

With the US having a pretty spectacular counterinsurgency going on, I figure they know how to get this done.

Posted by: MrExcitement at June 21, 2025 11:32 AM (hOOi9)

55 So noted. Thank you, BH.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at June 21, 2025 11:32 AM (dR6yv)

56 Certainly somebody had the foresight to build a few GBU-57s with "Made in Israel" in Hebrew writing on all the circuitry for purposes of plausible deniability, right?

Posted by: PabloD at June 21, 2025 11:33 AM (TgNVd)

57 but if they can’t we drop one or two MOPs to eliminate their nuke capabilities and then we’re done. Whatever happens on the ground after that is up to others...

Iran can’t have nukes

Your statements are inconsistent. What if 1 or 2 MOPs don't get the job done? If they can't have nukes, then we have to do what is necessary.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 11:33 AM (Riz8t)

58 38 No really guys trust me. THIS TIME regime change in the Middle East will work.
Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at June 21, 2025 11:26 AM (/CkK4)

Success stories or not, overall, no bad guys ended up keeping their nukes.

Posted by: MrExcitement at June 21, 2025 11:34 AM (hOOi9)

59 >>>Yes, we'd like to see the leadership strung up off of lampposts but the rulers still have a tight grip on things.
Posted by: NR Pax
----

If they think you are out of step with the mullahs, cops will come, drag you out of your house and beat you on your front step.
Pour encourager les autres

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 11:34 AM (lCWOD)

60 Communism and communists were an existential threat to America. Directly. You know it.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 11:29 AM (lCWOD)

Yes, in Korea, Vietnam, Greece, the entire Eastern bloc, South America, Africa... commies everywhere.

You know where we forgot to look? In America, on our campuses. In our boardrooms, in DC.

We spent bazillions on dollars, shed millions of lives, and they conquered America, without ever firing a shot.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 11:35 AM (5ntSy)

61 It's not regime change as much as it is excising a cancer.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 11:36 AM (lCWOD)

62 I loved Trump's Truth Social post about the "No Kings" demonstrations: "It worked! I'm still your president!"

Posted by: Emmie at June 21, 2025 11:37 AM (rF2iL)

63 0 I kinda dated a Persian girl (or two or three). They are fiercely ‘Persian’ and not Iranian.

Many of them have vast tracts of land.
Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 11:27 AM (Riz8t)
——-

‘Hey baby, how yoo doin’? Yoo heard about the massive penetrator. I got something to show ya.’

Posted by: Elric the Bladiest Blade at June 21, 2025 11:37 AM (5cl3b)

64 but if they can’t we drop one or two MOPs to eliminate their nuke capabilities and then we’re done. Whatever happens on the ground after that is up to others...
_________

Doesn't regime change also have to be a part of this? We can't leave a bunch of revanchist mullahs in place unless we're gonna do this same thing every so often.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at June 21, 2025 11:38 AM (ITkJX)

65 Ok... I poked around a bit regarding a French - Iranian connection. France was a key player in the 70's in guiding Iran's budding nuclear program. Iran invested heavily in a French company involved in Uranium enrichment in return for that Uranium to be used in Iran's civilian nuclear program. AFAIK Iran never received any of that... since the enrichment was post revolution.

The US and Germany also contributed nuclear technology to Iran during this time. But neither provided any nuclear materials such as Uranium.

However, the political situation in Iran changed for the worse with the Iranian Revolution that saw the mullahs take power. All western countries ceased their cooperation with Iran in 79, for obvious reasons.

My curiosity was sparked by a report that Iran's nuclear program was based heavily on French designs for reactor technologies.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 21, 2025 11:39 AM (Q4IgG)

66 Your statements are inconsistent. What if 1 or 2 MOPs don't get the job done? If they can't have nukes, then we have to do what is necessary.
Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 11:33 AM (Riz8t)

I disagree. The MOPs were designed to do this very type of operation. Drop them on Fordow and it will be destroyed. Furthermore Israel has the same objective and they’re clearly all-in on this mission. In the extremely unlikely event that mop-up (see the pun?) operations are needed on the ground the IDF will do that. There is every reason to believe Fordow can be destroyed without American boots on the ground.

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at June 21, 2025 11:40 AM (ANuwa)

67 Priorities, man.

Black Drag Queens Honored on Oregon House Floor as Legislative Priorities Take Back Seat

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Master of the Mundane at June 21, 2025 11:40 AM (L/fGl)

68 >>I don’t support regime change. I do support giving Israel a little more time to take our Fordow on their own but if they can’t we drop one or two MOPs to eliminate their nuke capabilities and then we’re done. Whatever happens on the ground after that is up to others

I do. I don't support the US installing a government but I absolutely do support the removal of terrorists who have been attacking the US and other western interests for nearly 50 years.

The nuclear issue is just the latest and most dangerous incident but the religious lunatics in Tehran have been capturing and murdering Americans since they took power. They are never going to stop because their idiotic religion commands them to keep doing it. No more Hamas, no more Hezbollah, no more Houthis or any other Iranian terror proxy.

Let the people of Iran choose their own leadership and if they coexist peacefully then great. But the era of the mullahs needs to end.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 21, 2025 11:40 AM (viF8m)

69 I said ice cream, damn it!

Former President Joe Biden Talking in “Quiet Car,” Asking for Ice Cream on Amtrak Rides to DC Office

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Master of the Mundane at June 21, 2025 11:42 AM (L/fGl)

70 My Iranian food story was tuna with sour cream.
Weird, but surprisingly good.
Jack, thanks for the text of that speech.
KT, so glad to see you here, and obviously on the mend!

Posted by: MkY at June 21, 2025 11:42 AM (cPGH3)

71 Everything I know about American diplomacy I learned from the Marx Brothers:

https://tinyurl.com/38evy8m6

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 11:43 AM (T+YTi)

72 From everything I have/can read a fair percentage of Iranians want regime change but they want to do it themselves. The question becomes who supplies them with comms and supplies. "Hackers" have already crippled the crypto and banking systems so there is a start.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 11:44 AM (ZIggv)

73 The question of using the GBU-57?
Why not?
Those A holes have killed Americans without any repercussions for years. No boots on the ground are needed for seismic explosions.
We have the jets. We have the ordnance. I think Trump is covering all the bases.
I'll bet several quatloos we end up dropping them. And LOTS of them.

Posted by: MkY at June 21, 2025 11:45 AM (cPGH3)

74 Just a big misunderstanding.

Julian E. Barnes@julianbarnes
New: US Intel agencies assess that despite Israel's attack on Iran's nuclear facilities, Tehran has not made the decision to move to a nuclear bomb. That will likely change, officials say, if the U.S. attacks Fordo or Israel kills the supreme leader.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Master of the Mundane at June 21, 2025 11:45 AM (L/fGl)

75 The Israelis are taking care of leadership. Check out how many Reg Guard generals now sleep with allah, same with scientists, mullahs are going too. The only reason the Ayatollah is alive is Trump asking Israel to wait. He's 87, even if he makes it to Paris he won't be around that long. If there's a precocious successor the Mossad will take care of that.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 11:45 AM (lCWOD)

76 You know where we forgot to look? In America, on our campuses. In our boardrooms, in DC."

Especially D.C.

Researching the relationships between State, leftist Brits, and the Soviets would be interesting. And not likely to ever happen...

Posted by: Man at June 21, 2025 11:45 AM (tubbA)

77 "At one time, long ago, didn't the French have some sort of influence in Iran?"

Not that I know of, but during WWII, Britain basically ran the place. Which is why the Iranians aren't real friendly to Blighty.

Over 50 years ago, I worked in an oriental rug store. Some of the most beautiful pieces we had were Iranian: prayer rugs, mostly, with hunting scenes and floral designs. Some were in lovely wools, but the finest were woven in pure silk: absolutely stunning - and very expensive. But some of the shine came off the apple when the head salesman told me, casually, that most of the rugs were woven by children. Their small hands can make the thousands of fine knots needed to form a Persian carpet. The horrible old shah made all the kids go to school, which put a crimp in the rug-weaving emporia; but the head salesman was happy with the mullahs because they closed the schools and put the kids back to work on the rugs.

Posted by: Nemo at June 21, 2025 11:46 AM (4RPgu)

78 Good morning KT and everyone
Most I slept in weekd

Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2025 11:46 AM (+qU29)

79 K.T., great to have you back! Thank you for the links/reading.

Posted by: scampydog at June 21, 2025 11:47 AM (41CYW)

80 but during WWII, Britain basically ran the place"

And Soviets. Both invaded...

Posted by: Man at June 21, 2025 11:48 AM (tubbA)

81 Julian E. Barnes@julianbarnes
New: US Intel agencies assess that despite Israel's attack on Iran's nuclear facilities, Tehran has not made the decision to move to a nuclear bomb. That will likely change, officials say, if the U.S. attacks Fordo or Israel kills the supreme leader.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Master of the Mundane at June 21, 2025 11:45 AM (L/fGl)

This does not make sense. Who will be left?

Also, wait I thought they were making a bomb. They were just making the capability? Right.

But if you kill all of us, we're gonna get you!

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 21, 2025 11:48 AM (bss/y)

82 “Sex and the City” Star Cynthia Nixon Says Her Trans Jewish "Son" Is on a “Hunger Strike” to Support Gaza

-
"Trans Jewish"? I guess it has to do with circumcision.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Master of the Mundane at June 21, 2025 11:48 AM (L/fGl)

83 "Let the people of Iran choose their own leadership and if they coexist peacefully then great. But the era of the mullahs needs to end."

Agreed. Let's not think that we can dictate the successor regime; but let's make it perfectly clear that if said successor regime will "FA" with us, they definitely will "FO".

Posted by: Nemo at June 21, 2025 11:49 AM (4RPgu)

84 Your statements are inconsistent. What if 1 or 2 MOPs don't get the job done? If they can't have nukes, then we have to do what is necessary.
Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 11:33 AM (Riz8t)

I disagree. The MOPs were designed to do this very type of operation. Drop them on Fordow and it will be destroyed. Furthermore Israel has the same objective and they’re clearly all-in on this mission. In the extremely unlikely event that mop-up (see the pun?) operations are needed on the ground the IDF will do that. There is every reason to believe Fordow can be destroyed without American boots on the ground.

I've been reading a bit about whether the MOP, or even multiple MOPs, can do the job, and, to put it mildly, there is doubt. It's always a mistake to simply assume it will work. You need a Plan B and a Plan C. As the saying goes, hope is not a strategy.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 11:49 AM (Riz8t)

85 "Trans Jewish"? I guess it has to do with circumcision.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Master of the Mundane at June 21, 2025 11:48 AM (L/fGl)

Did they staple a foreskin on?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 21, 2025 11:49 AM (bss/y)

86 Iran is inching closer to Find Out territory.

>>Two flights of B-2 Spirits, callsigns MYTEE 11 flight and MYTEE 21 flight, comprising an unknown number of aircraft departed from Whiteman Air Force Base, Missouri, in the early hours of Jun. 21, 2025. Their destination has been noted as Andersen Air Force Base, located on the Pacific island of Guam, rather than the Indo-Pacific outpost of Diego Garcia.

https://tinyurl.com/33yxjaaw

Posted by: JackStraw at June 21, 2025 11:50 AM (viF8m)

87 LinusVanPelt at June 21, 2025 11:18 AM

I think the "unclear" part is whether or not the Mullahs expect to be around with the 12th Imam. They're a nihilistic, strange bunch who sometimes suggest that dying to bring the Imam back is their goal.

Posted by: KT at June 21, 2025 11:50 AM (xekrU)

88
Success stories or not, overall, no bad guys ended up keeping their nukes.
Posted by: MrExcitement at June 21, 2025 11:34 AM (hOOi9)

What bad guys had nukes to keep in the first place?

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at June 21, 2025 11:50 AM (/CkK4)

89 Golden Girls Feud: Bea Arthur Repeatedly Called Betty White Vulgar Slur, Producer Reveals

-
The slur in question is "c*nt."

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Master of the Mundane at June 21, 2025 11:51 AM (L/fGl)

90 This does not make sense. Who will be left?

Also, wait I thought they were making a bomb. They were just making the capability? Right.

But if you kill all of us, we're gonna get you!
Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 21, 2025 11:48 AM (bss/y)

It's been said over and over again, if you were thinking of getting a bomb, the best thing you can do is get a bomb before the U.S. of A. starts "negotiating" with you.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 11:52 AM (NypQO)

91 Julian E. Barnes@julianbarnes
New: US Intel agencies assess that despite Israel's attack on Iran's nuclear facilities, Tehran has not made the decision to move to a nuclear bomb. That will likely change, officials say, if the U.S. attacks Fordo or Israel kills the supreme leader.

Only our "Intelligence" agencies could be this obtuse. Do they think the mullahs were building nukes as 4th of July fireworks?

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 11:52 AM (Riz8t)

92 Saying "Don't get involved" requires an outstanding amount of selective memory.

Posted by: pawn, one of many at June 21, 2025 11:52 AM (QB+5g)

93 No more Khomeinis
No more Ayatollahs
No more mullahs
No more Red Guard
No more adherents to such ideas.
Excision

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 11:53 AM (lCWOD)

94 Aetius, it has been found that all of the components that go into making a bomb had been completed and tested. Sanjarian was the site for this, it has since been destroyed.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 11:53 AM (ZIggv)

95 Her Trans Jewish "Son" Is on a “Hunger Strike” to Support Gaza

Suicidal Empathy is really something that should not be encouraged with young people.

Posted by: NR Pax at June 21, 2025 11:53 AM (7xrfc)

96 Nukes don't kill people; mullahs kill people.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 11:54 AM (Riz8t)

97 Via Insty, US WWII navy vs Imperial Star Fleet:

https://tinyurl.com/36x24rtc

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at June 21, 2025 11:54 AM (ITkJX)

98 I posit that we won the war on foreign terrorism. No major attacks succeed after 9/11 in spite of having two anti American Presidents in office for 12 years.

It’s domestic terrorism that we are having a problem with.

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 11:55 AM (VofaG)

99 Julian E. Barnes is the fucking NYT, a seat of communist disinformation. Sources tell him. Imagine the 'sources' talking to him. Find them and excise them too.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 11:55 AM (lCWOD)

100 92 Saying "Don't get involved" requires an outstanding amount of selective memory.
Posted by: pawn, one of many at June 21, 2025 11:52 AM (QB+5g)

lol. Yeah who can forget the thundering successes of Iraq, Lydia and Syria. My bad I forgot to remember that stuff.

Bomb baby bomb!!!

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at June 21, 2025 11:56 AM (/CkK4)

101 That was Shelby Foote. Loved his Civil War books and his commentary in Ken Burns documentary; great southern drawl
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at June 21, 2025 11:27 AM

-------------

Great stuff. Now many so-called historians are disavowing Foote because he had the gall to appreciate and defend southern culture. How un-woke and gauche. Even Burns has backpedaled on him.

Posted by: Bigsmith at June 21, 2025 11:56 AM (1Au9i)

102 Here's a good exploration of the effectiveness of MOPs on Fordow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEbq0chC6yI

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 11:57 AM (Riz8t)

103 Don't you love it
Don't you hate it
There it is
The way you made it.

Whaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!

Posted by: Brown Shoes at June 21, 2025 11:57 AM (QB+5g)

104 There are specific steps in making a nuclear ballistic missile. You don’t wait until your adversary is on the last step before you do anything about it.

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 11:58 AM (VofaG)

105 94 Aetius, it has been found that all of the components that go into making a bomb had been completed and tested. Sanjarian was the site for this, it has since been destroyed.
Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 11:53 AM (ZIggv)

But that still does not make sense. I am missing some bit of nuance.

They move the components offsite. Ok. Most of them are dead, btw.

If we kill Khomeini and/or attack the mountain site, THEN they will assemble and use them?

Who is they, at that point?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 21, 2025 11:59 AM (bss/y)

106 > Two flights of B-2 Spirits, callsigns MYTEE 11 flight and MYTEE 21 flight, comprising an unknown number of aircraft departed from Whiteman Air Force Base, Missouri, in the early hours of Jun. 21, 2025. Their destination has been noted as Andersen Air Force Base, located on the Pacific island of Guam, rather than the Indo-Pacific outpost of Diego Garcia.
-----------
Guam has the facilities the B-2's require... DG was "spartan" in comparison. It's also a stepping stone, relatively speaking, to get to Iran.

Wonder if we've got permission to overfly India and Pakistan?

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 21, 2025 11:59 AM (Q4IgG)

107 OT: a new one to me, but one for the Horde to remember for the next time. And you know there will be a next time.

Kitten kaboodle

Posted by: Black Eyed Peas at June 21, 2025 11:59 AM (3ImbR)

108 wut?

>>Accused Minnesota assassin wildly claimed in ‘incoherent’ letter that Gov. Tim Walz instructed him to kill Sen. Amy Klobuchar: report

https://tinyurl.com/2r8jkbk4

Posted by: JackStraw at June 21, 2025 12:00 PM (viF8m)

109 Saying "Don't get involved" requires an outstanding amount of selective memory.
Posted by: pawn, one of many at June 21, 2025 11:52 AM (QB+5g)

lol. Yeah who can forget the thundering successes of Iraq, Lydia and Syria. My bad I forgot to remember that stuff.

Bomb baby bomb!!!
Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at June 21, 2025 11:56 AM (/CkK4)

You can only say that because it’s impossible to determine what would have happened if we didn’t take action. In regard to Libya, our action in Iraq made Khadaffi give up his nuke program.

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 12:00 PM (VofaG)

110 KT!

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at June 21, 2025 12:01 PM (Splbu)

111 >>Wonder if we've got permission to overfly India and Pakistan?

Well Pakistan just nominated Trump for a Nobel so they seem pretty friendly right now.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 21, 2025 12:02 PM (viF8m)

112 Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse . . .

Starbucks Will Improve Menu to Fit MAHA Initiative

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Master of the Mundane at June 21, 2025 12:02 PM (L/fGl)

113 108 wut?

>>Accused Minnesota assassin wildly claimed in ‘incoherent’ letter that Gov. Tim Walz instructed him to kill Sen. Amy Klobuchar: report

https://tinyurl.com/2r8jkbk4
Posted by: JackStraw at June 21, 2025 12:00 PM (viF8m)

That popped up yesterday. No wonder this story just got covered with a blanket. Guy sounds like his nuts, but a dangerous one for them to try to publicize.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 21, 2025 12:02 PM (bss/y)

114 Millenarian. Whi cares about ladies hats?

Posted by: Hokey Pokey at June 21, 2025 12:03 PM (QSrLX)

115 Listening to Candace Owens talking about the war on fertility, that our culture has pushed promiscuity and birth control pills, as well as other drugs, not to mention abortions on young women. She says so many women, when they get a bit older, they start wanting to have children, and find they can't. Or that it's more difficult, and they don't know why.

We keep looking for boogiemen overseas.....

And I know, I know, Candace is bad. You don't have to tell me.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 12:03 PM (NypQO)

116 -----------
Guam has the facilities the B-2's require... DG was "spartan" in comparison. It's also a stepping stone, relatively speaking, to get to Iran.

Wonder if we've got permission to overfly India and Pakistan?
Posted by: Martini Farmer
----------------------------------

What if the stay in Guam as a deterrent to China?

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 12:03 PM (lCWOD)

117 114 Millenarian. Whi cares about ladies hats?
Posted by: Hokey Pokey at June 21, 2025 12:03 PM (QSrLX)

The Kentucky Derby ladies.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 21, 2025 12:03 PM (bss/y)

118 >>Their destination has been noted as Andersen Air Force Base, located on the Pacific island of Guam, rather than the Indo-Pacific outpost of Diego Garcia.

Guam may not be the final destination.

I used Anderson AFB on Guam as a resting over-night before refueling the next morning on my way to Cubi Point, another rest/fuel stop, then onward to the final destination of Diego Garcia.

Just sayin'..

Posted by: one hour sober at June 21, 2025 12:04 PM (Y1sOo)

119 Speaking of forgetting…so many hawks have forgotten the lead up to Iraq. Saddam was Hitler. He was building WMDs. He was gonna kill millions and wipe out Israel. If unchecked he would build ICBMs to take out New York.

Sound familiar?

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at June 21, 2025 12:04 PM (/CkK4)

120 Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 21, 2025 12:02 PM (bss/y)

It’s hilariously obvious that the assassin is bad news for the Left and not the Right .

Otherwise it would be front page coverage 24/7 .

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 12:05 PM (VofaG)

121 >>Wonder if we've got permission to overfly India and Pakistan?

Well Pakistan just nominated Trump for a Nobel so they seem pretty friendly right now.
----------
Yea, I was thinking about that. And Trump's mediation in their "near nuclear war" last month.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 21, 2025 12:05 PM (Q4IgG)

122
Even with the enrichment plants disabled or destroyed, there is still that report that Iran has components for 15 nuclear warheads. If that's true, it would include enriched uranium metal, shaped into cores for implosion-type fission bombs. The physics for that design were first worked out by 1945, and have been refined considerably since. The Iranians must have been working out their own version of the design for quite some time.

The nuclear components already accumulated are still a threat. If the report is true.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at June 21, 2025 12:05 PM (hZ1gu)

123 Speaking of forgetting…so many hawks have forgotten the lead up to Iraq. Saddam was Hitler. He was building WMDs. He was gonna kill millions and wipe out Israel. If unchecked he would build ICBMs to take out New York.

Sound familiar?

Peace in our time!

Sound familiar?

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 12:06 PM (Riz8t)

124 Golden Girls Feud: Bea Arthur Repeatedly Called Betty White Vulgar Slur, Producer Reveals

-
The slur in question is "c*nt."

-
Thank you for being my friend!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Master of the Mundane at June 21, 2025 12:06 PM (L/fGl)

125 You can only say that because it’s impossible to determine what would have happened if we didn’t take action. In regard to Libya, our action in Iraq made Khadaffi give up his nuke program.
Posted by: polynikes
-------------------------------

Then Hillary killed him and lit the M.E. fuse.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 12:06 PM (lCWOD)

126 Speaking of forgetting…so many hawks have forgotten the lead up to Iraq. Saddam was Hitler. He was building WMDs. He was gonna kill millions and wipe out Israel. If unchecked he would build ICBMs to take out New York.

Sound familiar?
Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at June 21, 2025 12:04 PM (/CkK4)

Why exaggerate to support your position ? Is it not strong enough just to argue against the 17 UN violations and attempted assassination of a President which was the basis for the war?

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 12:07 PM (VofaG)

127 Then Hillary killed him and lit the M.E. fuse.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 12:06 PM (lCWOD)

I can’t hate her enough.

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 12:08 PM (VofaG)

128 Guam has the facilities the B-2's require...

-
And risk it flipping over?!!!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Master of the Mundane at June 21, 2025 12:08 PM (L/fGl)

129 Great stuff. Now many so-called historians are disavowing Foote because he had the gall to appreciate and defend southern culture. How un-woke and gauche. Even Burns has backpedaled on him.
Posted by: Bigsmith at June 21, 2025 11:56 AM (1Au9i)

That is a real shame. Foote was a southern gentleman in the best sense and an exquisite writer. Burns is a coward…. In many ways, Foote was the star of Burns’ civil war documentary and made it as good as it was

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at June 21, 2025 12:09 PM (i5Vkf)

130 Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Master of the Mundane at June 21, 2025 12:06 PM (L/fGl)

Well Bea Arthur was a former. Marine.

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 12:09 PM (VofaG)

131 Guam has the facilities the B-2's require...

-
And risk it flipping over?!!!

You're forgetting that B-2s are stealthy. Guam would never even know they were there.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 12:09 PM (Riz8t)

132 I really don't want us bombing Iran

Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2025 12:09 PM (+qU29)

133 Aetius, the only thing lacking from Iran on it's nuke was the Death to Little Satan sticker.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 12:10 PM (ZIggv)

134 Great stuff. Now many so-called historians are disavowing Foote because he had the gall to appreciate and defend southern culture. How un-woke and gauche. Even Burns has backpedaled on him.
Posted by: Bigsmith at June 21, 2025 11:56 AM (1Au9i)

Same historians that support the commies in the Spanish Civil War.

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 12:10 PM (VofaG)

135 I really don't want us bombing Iran

I doubt it's anyone's first choice, but there is a threat there that simply must be dealt with. There is no choice. If the Israelis accomplish their goals, or Iranian people overthrow the regime, or (much less likely) the current regime gives up its nuclear sites, materials and programs, then okay. Otherwise, you're simply refusing to acknowledge the problem.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 12:11 PM (Riz8t)

136 The airspace over the Strait of Hormuz is considered by the U.S. to be international airspace. Both Oman and Iran have certain restrictions in place regarding their territorial waters, some of which the U.S. recognizes, some of which it doesn't.

On a B-2 flight from DGAR, there would be no requirement to get permission from anyone as long as it entered the Gulf of Oman and stayed in the international airspace above the strait.

Posted by: one hour sober at June 21, 2025 12:12 PM (Y1sOo)

137 That was Shelby Foote. Loved his Civil War books and his commentary in Ken Burns documentary; great southern drawl
Posted by: LinusVanPelt

My favorite Foote story. During WWII, he was a stateside Army officer. He went AWOL to visit a girlfriend and was busted to the ranks.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Master of the Mundane at June 21, 2025 12:13 PM (L/fGl)

138 Selfish me just wants to kick the can down the road. Pragmatic me knows that will only lead to worse consequences in the future .

They are currently on my shoulders fighting to the death.

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 12:14 PM (VofaG)

139 Let Israel decapitate and then just leave them to their devices. DO NOT GET INVOLVED.

I'm in general agreement with the sentiment but I worry that 1) like a flatworm, decapitation doesn't guarantee termination and 2) the devices are nuclear.

Posted by: Oddbob at June 21, 2025 12:14 PM (/y8xj)

140 I read Guam only had 1 B2 shelter.

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 12:14 PM (tuLbh)

141 Why exaggerate to support your position ? Is it not strong enough just to argue against the 17 UN violations and attempted assassination of a President which was the basis for the war?
Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 12:07 PM (VofaG)

I’m Not exaggerating anything. I lived through it. Saddam = Hitler was practically the phrase of the year in 2002 and 2003. It was all the same bullshit. Fight there so we don’t fight here.

Same bullshit with Iran. I’m expecting Dick Cheney to come out of retirement and tell us how imperative it is we destroy Iran.

And in the 2040s it’ll be some other 3rd world shithole.

Every 20 years or so we send over a few thousand American kids to die in the name of dEmoCraCy, as Boeing and Raytheon jump into a pool of money Scrooge McDuck style.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at June 21, 2025 12:15 PM (/CkK4)

142 My favorite Foote story. During WWII, he was a stateside Army officer. He went AWOL to visit a girlfriend and was busted to the ranks.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Master of the Mundane at June 21, 2025 12:13 PM (L/fGl)

That is moron type behavior right there! Bewbs were prioritized LoL

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at June 21, 2025 12:15 PM (i5Vkf)

143 Friendly fire.

Iranian Missile Strike on Haifa Damages Historic Mosque, Injures Imams

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Master of the Mundane at June 21, 2025 12:16 PM (L/fGl)

144 Every 20 years or so we send over a few thousand American kids to die in the name of dEmoCraCy, as Boeing and Raytheon jump into a pool of money Scrooge McDuck style.

I took your arguments seriously until you started in with this nonsense. If you're really trying to persuade people, this is not the way to do it.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 12:16 PM (Riz8t)

145 In the mid-to-late 1970s, Iranian "refugees" were all over University of Hartford, driving white BMWs, dripping in gold jewelry and Paco Raban cologne while trying to make it with JAPs from Long Island.

Posted by: Field Marshal Zhukov at June 21, 2025 12:16 PM (wBaIH)

146 >>> Golden Girls Feud: Bea Arthur Repeatedly Called Betty White Vulgar Slur, Producer Reveals
-------------------

Arthur was jealous that Betty was cute, hot, quick, and straight.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 12:18 PM (lCWOD)

147 Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at June 21, 2025 12:15 PM (/CkK4)

Still can’t argue against the real reasons we went to war? Hey I understand and like I said I’m conflicted right now myself.

War is an ugly thing……

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 12:18 PM (VofaG)

148 I just had Fox on, and there was a retired Admiral giving commentary. In the early 70s I was detailed out for flag officers driver. Pretty cool job, mostly civilian clothes and you got to pack a .38. Most of the stars visiting the DC area were there for a little Marine Corps or Navy business, and a lot of pre retirement job hunting. The guy on Fox was a "senior fellow" at some think tank, which just reeks of the grift. Most of the guys I hauled around were looking for semi honest work or the crown jewel, teaching at the USNA.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at June 21, 2025 12:19 PM (gm9Sb)

149 When I was in basic training in USAF Lackland was filled with Iranians.

Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2025 12:19 PM (+qU29)

150 144 Every 20 years or so we send over a few thousand American kids to die in the name of dEmoCraCy, as Boeing and Raytheon jump into a pool of money Scrooge McDuck style.

I took your arguments seriously until you started in with this nonsense. If you're really trying to persuade people, this is not the way to do it.
Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 12:16 PM (Riz8t)

So you’re saying we havent sent thousands of kids to die every generation to a shithole country for no reason?

Seriously?

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at June 21, 2025 12:20 PM (/CkK4)

151 Do we know yet if the "earthquakes" in Iran was the work of Israeli forces or an act of God?

Posted by: Emmie at June 21, 2025 12:21 PM (rF2iL)

152 Pre 1979?

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 12:21 PM (tuLbh)

153 Thank you for being my friend!
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Master of the Mundane at June 21, 2025

You're a pal and a confidante.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at June 21, 2025 12:21 PM (dR6yv)

154 Natanz, Ishfahan, Bushehr, Arak, Parchin and Sanjarian are all destroyed.

Not saying it happened but there are several stories connecting the recent earthquake to Fordow.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 12:21 PM (ZIggv)

155 So you’re saying we havent sent thousands of kids to die every generation to a shithole country for no reason?

Seriously?
Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at June 21, 2025 12:20 PM (/CkK4)

There is always a reason . He’s saying the one you proposed doesn’t help your argument.

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 12:21 PM (VofaG)

156 So you’re saying we havent sent thousands of kids to die every generation to a shithole country for no reason?

Seriously?

We sent them for good reasons, as we understood them at the time. The "Scrooge McDuck" nonsense is about as convincing as Nazi pictures of ratlike Jewish arms dealers.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 12:22 PM (Riz8t)

157 Most of the guys I hauled around were looking for semi honest work or the crown jewel, teaching at the USNA.
Posted by: bill in arkansas,

If you thought the Ivey League lum's were a bunch of elitest grifters they are rank amatuers compared to the Academy Ring Knockers.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at June 21, 2025 12:22 PM (/lPRQ)

158 The Boring Company?

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 12:22 PM (tuLbh)

159 So you’re saying we havent sent thousands of kids to die every generation to a shithole country for no reason?

Seriously?
Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at June 21, 2025 12:20 PM (/CkK4)

We used to send them once every generation or so.

Now we just never stop sending them.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 12:23 PM (OqgaI)

160 123 Speaking of forgetting…so many hawks have forgotten the lead up to Iraq. Saddam was Hitler. He was building WMDs. He was gonna kill millions and wipe out Israel. If unchecked he would build ICBMs to take out New York.

Sound familiar?

Peace in our time!

Sound familiar?
Posted by: Archimedes
-----------------------------

Bombing Iraq? OK by me. We should have left when we finished the job. Iraq wasn't the place to focus our attention. But it would have made the point had we quit instead of nation building graft.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 12:24 PM (lCWOD)

161 >>When I was in basic training in USAF Lackland was filled with Iranians.

So was Navy flight training at NAS Whiting Field. Not filled, but a new class of a dozen or so Iranian student pilots showed up every six months.

Posted by: one hour sober at June 21, 2025 12:24 PM (Y1sOo)

162 The Boring Company?
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 12:22 PM (tuLbh

The one company I want Musk to succeed at so of course it’s the one that talks big and produces nothing.

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 12:24 PM (VofaG)

163 Smells like neocon up in here.

Send YOUR kids.

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at June 21, 2025 12:25 PM (i24o9)

164 > Natanz, Ishfahan, Bushehr, Arak, Parchin and Sanjarian are all destroyed.

Not saying it happened but there are several stories connecting the recent earthquake to Fordow.
Posted by: Ben Had
----------
That quake was, what? About 4.something? That's pretty significant.... I'm a bit dubious about it having anything to do with Fordow.

But I'm not going to rule it out either. Especially if there's no attempts to get to it in the next couple days/week.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 21, 2025 12:26 PM (Q4IgG)

165 Bombing Iraq? OK by me. We should have left when we finished the job. Iraq wasn't the place to focus our attention. But it would have made the point had we quit instead of nation building graft.

That's a different question than should we just ignore it.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 12:26 PM (Riz8t)

166 Martini Farmer, 5.2 . Karma would be an earthquake taking out Fordow.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 12:28 PM (ZIggv)

167 When the Iranian regime change happened in the late 70s, my college got a visit from a dude who wanted to give a presentation on the college radio station in Farsi about the history of Iran and what led up to the conflict. The teacher took the transcript to someone who spoke Farsi and he confirmed that it was harmless and neutral.

The first part got broadcast and a few Alluh Akbar types of Iranians came to protest and stop the rest. A campus reporter got a few shots and they tried to attack him with the claim that the Shah's agents in the US would kill them.

The teacher said "We have freedom of speech here. You do anything like that again, we put those pictures on the front page."

The remaining presentation went without any problems.

Posted by: NR Pax at June 21, 2025 12:28 PM (7xrfc)

168 Smells like neocon up in here.

Send YOUR kids.
Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at June 21, 2025 12:25 PM (i24o9)

I have a nephew who proudly got his commission not that long ago. Has done training to get his jump wings, his Ranger tab, and is now stationed in continental U.S., with his bride, who is expecting her first baby any day now.

I'm picturing her, all in black, with her baby on her lap, getting a flag from someone in uniform saying "On behalf of a grateful nation..."

I'm just not sure which nation is supposed to be grateful.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 12:28 PM (OqgaI)

169 161 Iranian pilots showing up for training. Fort Smith ANG base, now F35 Training City, just got over the Polish Air Force. My fellow Finns are coming in for training. The Poles seemed to be real Sierra Hotel and I'm curious to see how the Suomi AF performs. Bars near the airport/ANG base. Pro tip. Vodka. Stock up.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at June 21, 2025 12:28 PM (gm9Sb)

170 Seriously, the argument that we can’t send thousands of kids to die in Iran is a complete straw man. Nobody is suggesting American boots on the ground (except maybe in Bill Kristol’s fever dreams)… nobody.

The question on the table is a few air strikes (with big bombs) or no air strikes. Israel has done all the hard work already… Iran’s Air Force is gone and their air defenses are barely a threat. By the time we flew this hypothetical mission the B2 would be basically flying a training mission

Should we do that? I say yes… if you say no that’s not a ridiculous position. Now, Tucker Carlson squealing about forever wars in this particular context…. That’s ridiculous

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at June 21, 2025 12:29 PM (ANuwa)

171 The one company I want Musk to succeed at so of course it’s the one that talks big and produces nothing.
Posted by: polynikes
---------------------------

Don't worry, it will. They are going to need those big tunnels on Mars.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 12:30 PM (lCWOD)

172 There is not going to be any US troops in Iran at any point.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 12:30 PM (ZIggv)

173 Seriously, the argument that we can’t send thousands of kids to die in Iran is a complete straw man. Nobody is suggesting American boots on the ground (except maybe in Bill Kristol’s fever dreams)… nobody.

There is not going to be any US troops in Iran at any point.

I discern an alarming lack of follicular fire here.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 12:31 PM (Riz8t)

174 >>The one company I want Musk to succeed at so of course it’s the one that talks big and produces nothing.

It's working in Las Vegas.

https://tinyurl.com/5ebw9ydm

If Musk has his way it will be digging tunnels on Mars. Virtually every thing he does has a purpose for his Mars vision.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 21, 2025 12:31 PM (viF8m)

175 "Julian E. Barnes@julianbarnes
New: US Intel agencies assess that despite Israel's attack on Iran's nuclear facilities, Tehran has not made the decision to move to a nuclear bomb."

How silly can one be, to take this seriously?

The Iranians have put a tremendous amount of money and effort into hardened sites, centrifuges, and whatever else. What purpose does all that investment have? What else could they use it for?

Posted by: Penultimatum at June 21, 2025 12:32 PM (1QSX/)

176
There is not going to be any US troops in Iran at any point.

I discern an alarming lack of follicular fire here.
Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 12:31 PM (Riz8t)

LOL... I was just checking in to see if we had flaming hair going on and indeed we do....

Posted by: It's me donna at June 21, 2025 12:32 PM (VE6XX)

177 > Martini Farmer, 5.2 . Karma would be an earthquake taking out Fordow.
Posted by: Ben Had
----------
Heh

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 21, 2025 12:32 PM (Q4IgG)

178 I'm just not sure which nation is supposed to be grateful.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 12:28 PM (OqgaI)

I have two serving nephews and two minor patriotic boys.

Equip and arm Israel to finish it.

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at June 21, 2025 12:35 PM (i24o9)

179 There is not going to be any US troops in Iran at any point.
Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 12:30 PM (ZIggv)

I guess we'll see. Meanwhile, we have troops in Syria, in Iraq, in Saudi Arabia... in several countries in the middle east.

And we have ships in the water.

Some have described our troops in these various places as sitting ducks, as trip wires. Ready to be sacrificed, if we need a reason to go to all out war. Which will inevitably have to include boots on the ground. Unless we just want to lose. Again.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 12:36 PM (OqgaI)

180 There is not going to be any US troops in Iran at any point.

Do you think there’s a contingency plan if a B-2 goes down inside of Iran? Who goes in then?

Posted by: Unkaren at June 21, 2025 12:37 PM (LPL2Y)

181 Equip and arm Israel to finish it.
Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at June 21, 2025 12:35 PM (i24o9)

Many people have been predicting an outcome here. Some say Israel has a cakewalk. Some say Iran is NOT going to be anywhere near as "easy" as Iraq or Afghanistan. Or I suppose, Korea or Vietnam. Or the Hooties.

I guess we'll see.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 12:37 PM (OqgaI)

182 Ace is top of the page now at Insty.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at June 21, 2025 12:38 PM (PiwSw)

183 I want the US to bomb the crap out of that nuclear facility but it scares the hell out of me that they will retaliate against our Middle East bases... It's a tough call...

Posted by: It's me donna at June 21, 2025 12:38 PM (VE6XX)

184 >>Pre 1979?

If you're asking if Iranian military members being sent to U.S. bases for training stopped after the revolution in 1979, the answer is no.

Posted by: one hour sober at June 21, 2025 12:39 PM (Y1sOo)

185 Burt TC, we have troops in Germany, Japan, Okinawa, Poland, Turkey, Africa and countless other places as well.

We have ships and subs in oceans all over the world.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 12:39 PM (ZIggv)

186 Who wants to unconditionally surrender to the mullahs? Please raise your hand.

Posted by: KwaK! at June 21, 2025 12:40 PM (89Sog)

187
I have two serving nephews and two minor patriotic boys.

Equip and arm Israel to finish it.
Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at June 21, 2025 12:35 PM (i24o9)

Exactly. My daughter's unit need not be activated for this.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at June 21, 2025 12:40 PM (dR6yv)

188 I should try and do some plumbing today

Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2025 12:40 PM (+qU29)

189 Burt TC, we have troops in Germany, Japan, Okinawa, Poland, Turkey, Africa and countless other places as well.

We have ships and subs in oceans all over the world.
Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 12:39 PM (ZIggv)

Yes, and it is my position that we shouldn't have any of them, anywhere outside the United States.

Period.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 12:41 PM (OqgaI)

190 Baklava is better with pistachios. Coarsely chopped, mixed with brown sugar and a touch of cinnamon and allspice. Lemon honey syrup poured over when finished baking (warm syrup over warm pastry). That with a cup of coffee is sublime.

Posted by: moki at June 21, 2025 12:41 PM (wLjpr)

191 Comparing Trump's stated and proven foreign policy actions to the bi-partisan neocons who came before him is just stupid. It's the biggest reason they didn't want him ever to become president.

Iran has attacked the US numerous times in the last 4 1/2 decades and they never stop threatening to do worse. They are actively trying to assassinate Trump and members of his current and former administration. And even the assclowns at the IAEA say Iran is enriching uranium which can be used for only one purpose.

Trump obviously does not want to go to war with Iran or anyone else. But he also has to balance that with the obvious fact that Iran refuses to stop sponsoring terrorists that threaten the US and is absolutely trying to develop nukes. We might not want war but Iran might. Whehter we bomb Fordow or not Iran already believes, rightfully, that Israel is our ally and we support them. That makes us the Great Satan.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 21, 2025 12:43 PM (viF8m)

192 It's me donna, what do see the Iranians using for retaliation? They have no air capabilities left and every missile launch that pops up is soon gone. I guess they could send ground troops!

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 12:44 PM (ZIggv)

193 Unintended consequences never happen!

Posted by: Gary Powers at June 21, 2025 12:44 PM (LPL2Y)

194 192 It's me donna, what do see the Iranians using for retaliation? They have no air capabilities left and every missile launch that pops up is soon gone. I guess they could send ground troops!
Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 12:44 PM (ZIggv)

The Houthis, Hezbollah, sleeper cells. ? I don't know

Posted by: It's me donna at June 21, 2025 12:46 PM (VE6XX)

195 Should we, meaning everyone without top secret clearance, really know what our military capability is? Should we know what is/can be housed where. What our planes actually can drop where. I know some info is out there as a show of strength but if we (the good guys) are game planning it, you know they are too.

Posted by: lin-duh at June 21, 2025 12:46 PM (VCgbV)

196 I guess we'll see. Meanwhile, we have troops in Syria, in Iraq, in Saudi Arabia... in several countries in the middle east.

And we have ships in the water.

Some have described our troops in these various places as sitting ducks, as trip wires. Ready to be sacrificed, if we need a reason to go to all out war. Which will inevitably have to include boots on the ground. Unless we just want to lose. Again.
Posted by: BurtTC
------------------------

I agree. We should bring them all home, mothball our arms and let Russia or China take over. Think of the money and lives we would save.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 12:47 PM (lCWOD)

197 Speaking of Iran, who is hotter: Valerie Jarrett or Ranae Holland of "Finding Bigfoot"?

Getting Squatchy in here!

Posted by: James Bobo Fay at June 21, 2025 12:48 PM (R/m4+)

198 Many if not most of those Iranian kids going to school here where tying to get out of mandatory military service back home.

I had so many of them begging me not to flunk them out because they would be sent back and have to serve in the military which was so far beneath them.

Posted by: pawn, one of many at June 21, 2025 12:48 PM (QB+5g)

199 Every Institution involved has a "When will Iran get nukes" estimator (possibly back to punch-cards) which cranks out whatever number they need it to on any given day. When AI gets ahold of this we'll be in deep poop.

Posted by: DaveA at June 21, 2025 12:48 PM (FhXTo)

200 186 Who wants to unconditionally surrender to the mullahs? Please raise your hand.
Posted by: KwaK
----------------------

Dead

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 12:48 PM (lCWOD)

201 I agree. We should bring them all home, mothball our arms and let Russia or China take over. Think of the money and lives we would save.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 12:47 PM (lCWOD)

Take over what?

Being number 1? Why the hell do you care? Seriously, other than being brainwashed into thinking we're supposed to be the good guys, why do you care?

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 12:50 PM (OqgaI)

202 1.3 million active duty service members stationed in the US only plus all the ships and subs in US ports. What's not to like? Please excuse the dribble from the snark.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 12:51 PM (ZIggv)

203 When AI gets ahold of this we'll be in deep poop.
Posted by: DaveA at June 21, 2025 12:48 PM (FhXTo)

I'm beginning to think Skynet ain't the bad guys.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 12:51 PM (OqgaI)

204 201
'Seriously, other than being brainwashed into thinking we're supposed to be the good guys, why do you care?'

How do you know you're not the one that's brainwashed?

Posted by: Dr. Claw at June 21, 2025 12:53 PM (3wi/L)

205 About the only thing the Iranians have left outside Iran is the call for a jihad against the west. The Houthis don't have much left , Hamas and Hezbollah are pretty much dead so they would have to resort to suicide bombers. I'm still surprised that has yet to happen (thank God)

Posted by: Smell the Glove at June 21, 2025 12:53 PM (IG2sK)

206 1.3 million active duty service members stationed in the US only plus all the ships and subs in US ports. What's not to like? Please excuse the dribble from the snark.
Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 12:51 PM (ZIggv)

Maybe we don't need 1.3 million active duty military personnel.

By the way, how many of those 1.3 million are combat personnel?

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 12:54 PM (OqgaI)

207 This is where the debate has been too vague. There are many I believe like me who would absolutely oppose Iraq war 2.0 in Iran… but we absolutely do support dropping one or two big bombs. Iran can’t have nukes

Trump has explicitly said no US troops on the ground, we'll just blow everything up real good if necessary.

Similarly, I'm fine with soft regime change by killing the mad mullahs, but let the Persian people decide what's next (which may well be multiple smaller countries, similar to the breakup of Eastern Europe after their decades of tyranny).

Posted by: Ian S. at June 21, 2025 12:54 PM (QZThv)

208 How do you know you're not the one that's brainwashed?
Posted by: Dr. Claw at June 21, 2025 12:53 PM (3wi/L)

Who's brainwashing me?

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 12:54 PM (OqgaI)

209 Unintended consequences never happen!
Posted by: Gary Powers

The Soviets possessed the ability to shoot you down.

Iran's ability to down a U.S. or IAF aircraft has been severely degraded. Two more weeks of IAF aircraft pounding Iran's air defense infrastructure will reduce its ability to just about zero.

Posted by: one hour sober at June 21, 2025 12:55 PM (Y1sOo)

210 From what I have read is that possible 15 nukes that Iran may or may not have is based on the number of weapons that can me made if they enrich their recently disclosed known inventory to bomb grade.

Posted by: pawn, one of many at June 21, 2025 12:55 PM (QB+5g)

211 Iran, today seems to be reeling. With momentum on Israel's side I'd presume they'll create the operational environment required to disable Fordow by any means necessary. I personally think that any operation against that facility will have to be done from within it.

I think there's an intelligence bonanza to be had by getting in there and dismantling it. Destroying it might be an unrealistic option given the radioactive materials the complex is processing... or processed.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 21, 2025 12:55 PM (Q4IgG)

212 Best hot tea I ever has was at an Iranian restaurant.

Posted by: Cow Demon at June 21, 2025 12:55 PM (vm8sq)

213 183 I want the US to bomb the crap out of that nuclear facility but it scares the hell out of me that they will retaliate against our Middle East bases... It's a tough call...
Posted by: It's me donna
---------------------------------

We have the proper equipment and training to do the bombing job.
The Israelis have done and are still at a good job of clearing out their offensive capability. If there are any remaining that dare come after us consider it a target of opportunity.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 12:56 PM (lCWOD)

214 Burt TC, you know, you are right. The US should disband all branches of the military and Guard. That would really show the Military/Industrial Complex.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 12:57 PM (ZIggv)

215
Uranium enrichment plants don't really have an issue with radioactivity.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at June 21, 2025 12:57 PM (hZ1gu)

216 "Who's brainwashing me?"

In a word, yourself. You could be believing in your confirmation bias so much that complete lies seem like the truth. To You.

Posted by: KwaK! at June 21, 2025 12:58 PM (89Sog)

217 Every Institution involved has a "When will Iran get nukes" estimator (possibly back to punch-cards) which cranks out whatever number they need it to on any given day. When AI gets ahold of this we'll be in deep poop.
Posted by: DaveA

Everyone is asking the wrong question.
Wrong Q: "When will Iran get nukes?"

They already have them.

Correct Q: "When will they miniaturize them enough to put it on an ICBM or other delivery missile?"

Fat Man & Little Boy is 80 yr old technology. They just won't fit on the tip of a missile.

With all the help they've received from Russia, Chyna and NORK, you can't make me believe they don't already have the material.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 21, 2025 12:58 PM (aRxqp)

218 With all the help they've received from Russia, Chyna and NORK, you can't make me believe they don't already have the material.
Posted by: rickb223 at June 21, 2025 12:58 PM (aRxqp)

I definitely believe they have them

Posted by: It's me donna at June 21, 2025 12:59 PM (VE6XX)

219 In a word, yourself. You could be believing in your confirmation bias so much that complete lies seem like the truth. To You.
Posted by: KwaK! at June 21, 2025 12:58 PM (89Sog)

So you're a mindreader.

Got it.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:00 PM (OqgaI)

220 I once studied under a history professor who actually referred to Mossadegh as a “flake”. He, shockingly, was all good with the coup of 1953 for that alone. He also put forth the idea that the seizure of the embassy in 1979 was the mullahs’ bid to embarrass the sitting Iranian government ( remember that even then the government consisted of a “democracy” ultimately controlled by the mullahs). I’m not sure how true that is but the end result even now is a de facto state of war with Iran.

Posted by: Cow Demon at June 21, 2025 01:00 PM (vm8sq)

221 Well Bea Arthur was a former. Marine.
Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 12:09 PM (VofaG)

If the rumors are true, she got kicked out because she was a roundheels who caught the clap.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at June 21, 2025 01:00 PM (FoIOl)

222 Burt TC, you know, you are right. The US should disband all branches of the military and Guard. That would really show the Military/Industrial Complex.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 12:57 PM (ZIggv)

So... either 1.3 million or zero?

There's no number in between that would be acceptable?

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:01 PM (OqgaI)

223 So you're a mindreader.

Got it.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:00 PM (OqgaI)

I said "could". Do you need a definition of that word to help you understand that what I said was only a possibility?

Posted by: KwaK! at June 21, 2025 01:01 PM (89Sog)

224 rickb223, you are right. It is because they already have at least one functional nuke and the reason we are deploying all these resources.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 01:02 PM (ZIggv)

225 218 With all the help they've received from Russia, Chyna and NORK, you can't make me believe they don't already have the material.
Posted by: rickb223 at June 21, 2025 12:58 PM (aRxqp)

I definitely believe they have them
Posted by: It's me donna a
-----------------------------------

That's why Israel and we are doing what we're doing.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 01:02 PM (lCWOD)

226 Iran bombs the US consulate in Iraq.

Just kidding. They did this last year.

>>Several explosions were reported near the U.S. Consulate in Erbil, Iraq, an Iraqi security source told ABC News.

>>The Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps quickly took responsibility for the attacks, saying it was targeting the "headquarters of spies" and "anti-Iranian terrorist gatherings in parts of the region" with ballistic missiles.

https://tinyurl.com/3y526raz

If we drop bombs in Iran it won't be the start of a war. The war has been going on for decades. How many of our troops were maimed and killed by Iranian IEDs in Iraq? Trump took out Soleimani in his 1st term because he was the terrorist leader that killed many Americans and wanted to kill many more.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 21, 2025 01:03 PM (viF8m)

227 208

'Who's brainwashing me?'

I can only speculate but you blew past the facts that JackStraw and others set down about decades of Iranian attacks as though they were irrelevant.
You're arguing from pure emotion with a gravely flawed concept that everything the US has done is wrong and evil, uniquely so. You don't provide any cause and effect showing your point. You just keep laying it down as though it is established fact.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at June 21, 2025 01:04 PM (3wi/L)

228 I don't think Iran was going to wait until they'd mastered the miniaturization tech to put a warhead on a missile. They were going to build however many bombs they could, quickly, and use them.

The how is clearly unknown.

But that'd they try isn't.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 21, 2025 01:05 PM (Q4IgG)

229 Someone can bomb the crap out of the Fordow facility and if Iran is prevented from regaining air superiority over that area and effectively place what remains of the facility under siege with satellite surveillance.

Any attempt to recover the materials there would be very obvious.

200 feet underground is a vey effective tomb.

I think everyone wants to know where the current stockpile is located.

Of course some reckless asshole could just give them a bomb if they wanted to die.

Posted by: pawn, one of many at June 21, 2025 01:05 PM (QB+5g)

230 I said "could". Do you need a definition of that word to help you understand that what I said was only a possibility?
Posted by: KwaK! at June 21, 2025 01:01 PM (89Sog)

You're not expecting me to take you seriously, are you?

I've never seen your nic before. I just assume you're a troll.

But since we're playing a game, yes. I COULD be completely deluding myself. Which... if that's true for me, then it's true for everyone else too, so nobody knows anything about anything, and we should all stop believing anything about anyone.

Including who has bombs and who doesn't.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:06 PM (OqgaI)

231 BurtTC, I have no problem with the size and deployment of our military.

Peace is not the default position of mankind and to not prepare is delusional.
When did Noah build the Ark? Before the flood.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 01:06 PM (ZIggv)

232 Even Fox News has 6 B2s headed for Guam.

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 01:07 PM (tuLbh)

233 I want the US to bomb the crap out of that nuclear facility but it scares the hell out of me that they will retaliate against our Middle East bases.

Every time the Iranians launch something at Israel it gives away where the launcher is and the IAF can destroy it. That's been going on for 2+ weeks now, so they're likely running low on things to launch.

Posted by: Ian S. at June 21, 2025 01:07 PM (QZThv)

234 It is because they already have at least one functional nuke and the reason we are deploying all these resources.

Posted by: Ben Had

And they currently only have one. Which is why we haven't seen "tests" to prove they have them.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 21, 2025 01:08 PM (aRxqp)

235 >>>and the reason we are deploying all these resources.

Posted by: Ben Had
-----------------------

None of them need think twice. We've got what's being referred to as an airbridge of giant cargo planes running a 24 hr loop for at least two days from England and western Germany to (I think) a landing spot in south eastern Saudi Arabia. Those planes carry 200,000 lbs each.

Plus F-22s, F-35s and B-2s
If anyone goes aggressive it's going to be happy funtime for the pilots.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 01:09 PM (lCWOD)

236 You're arguing from pure emotion with a gravely flawed concept that everything the US has done is wrong and evil, uniquely so. You don't provide any cause and effect showing your point. You just keep laying it down as though it is established fact.
Posted by: Dr. Claw at June 21, 2025 01:04 PM (3wi/L)

Really? I'm arguing on emotion?

Who has been at war for the past 24 years? Iran? Who has been killing people all over the globe? China?

Yes, the U.S. of A. is uniquely causing millions of people to die... all over the globe. We are. You seem to think you have good reasons for it. Fine. Go keep killing people. If you can sleep at night thinking that makes you the good guy, go right ahead.

But the fact is the fact. Your country has been at war for more than two decades. And you don't seem to want that to stop. I do.

But that means I'm being emotional, I guess. Like that's a bad thing.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:09 PM (OqgaI)

237 "I've never seen your nic before. I just assume you're a troll."

Ahhh...the old ad hominem.

Of course I'm a troll and you are a cheese eating surrender monkey.

Are we square?

Posted by: KwaK! at June 21, 2025 01:09 PM (89Sog)

238

https://is.gd/BGt2Md

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 01:09 PM (tuLbh)

239 From what I have read is that possible 15 nukes that Iran may or may not have is based on the number of weapons that can me made if they enrich their recently disclosed known inventory to bomb grade.
Posted by: pawn, one of many
------------
Iran has had a nuclear interest/program since 1957. That's almost 70 yrs - i believe they have some capabilities with nukes.

Posted by: scampydog at June 21, 2025 01:09 PM (41CYW)

240 Peace is not the default position of mankind and to not prepare is delusional.
When did Noah build the Ark? Before the flood.
Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 01:06 PM (ZIggv)

I guess we're at an impasse, then.

War it is.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:11 PM (OqgaI)

241 rickb223, that was the importance of Sanjarian. They has test ed all the components there.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 01:11 PM (ZIggv)

242 I hope I get to see us drop a nuke somewhere, sometime, someplace on baddies before I croak.

I just want to see if they actually work and Iran is the perfect place for such an event.

Do it for science.

Posted by: Old Iron Pants at June 21, 2025 01:11 PM (R/m4+)

243 The Reich is even sending many Airbus cargo planes to the middle east.

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 01:11 PM (tuLbh)

244 232 Even Fox News has 6 B2s headed for Guam.
Posted by: Boss Moss
----------------------------

Trump wants every nation, every body to know what we are doing.
It's part of his plan and part of his negotiation. If he is forced to let the dogs loose there will be no back talk only sighs of relief.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 01:12 PM (lCWOD)

245
"The overthrow in 1953 was part of a series of Cold War considerations that the United States made with our British allies to check the influence of the Soviet Union in the Middle East and ensure Western access to oil."

We had/have plenty of oil in the West.
Hundreds of years-worth still.
It was only a matter of drilling it and refining it.

Posted by: Speller at June 21, 2025 01:12 PM (pSotA)

246 I have a nephew who proudly got his commission not that long ago. Has done training to get his jump wings, his Ranger tab, and is now stationed in continental U.S., with his bride, who is expecting her first baby any day now.

I'm picturing her, all in black, with her baby on her lap, getting a flag from someone in uniform saying "On behalf of a grateful nation..."

This being 2025, it's more likely your nephew will return early from deployment as a surprise and find her cheating.

Posted by: Ian S. at June 21, 2025 01:12 PM (QZThv)

247 Burt TC, none of us know what it is at this point.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 01:13 PM (ZIggv)

248 "The United States was not engaged in the democracy promotion that came to characterize the discredited and failed efforts of the Global War on Terrorism".

The pristine inversion of actual history, including history this idiot presumably lived through (and was more than 12 years old) renders discussion pointless. It's like trying to enlighten a Palestinian who's obsessed with jooo plots, or a Soviet in the 1970s who actually believed Soviet media. Having done both, no thanks.

Posted by: Some pithy sayings really sum things up at June 21, 2025 01:13 PM (1m82a)

249 The overthrow in 1953 was part of a series of Cold War considerations that the United States made with our British allies to check the influence of the Soviet Union in the Middle East and ensure Western access to oil.

------

But mostly to control access to oil.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 11:04 AM

And to deny warm water ports to the Soviet Navy.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 01:14 PM (jc0TO)

250 I have a nephew who proudly got his commission not that long ago. Has done training to get his jump wings, his Ranger tab, and is now stationed in continental U.S., with his bride, who is expecting her first baby any day now.

I'm picturing her, all in black, with her baby on her lap, getting a flag from someone in uniform saying "On behalf of a grateful nation..."

This being 2025, it's more likely your nephew will return early from deployment as a surprise and find her cheating.
Posted by: Ian S.

I like the Marine Corps old position: "If the Marine Corps had wanted you to have a wife, they would have issued you one".

Posted by: rickb223 at June 21, 2025 01:15 PM (aRxqp)

251 236
'Really? I'm arguing on emotion?'

Yep, you sure are.
Most of the killing the US did was during the Cold War which was a matter of life and death. The US played to win and yes, made mistakes while doing it. The reason you're able to scold me on the internet and tell me what I'm thinking is a product of us winning it.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at June 21, 2025 01:16 PM (3wi/L)

252 Burt TC, none of us know what it is at this point.
Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 01:13 PM (ZIggv)

Which is what I keep saying.

But the trolls here like to put words in people's mouths, or call them Puppets of Pootin or whatever else they can come up with.

I don't want my country to go to war. Period. I don't know what to expect... and neither does anyone else.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:18 PM (OqgaI)

253 War it is.
Posted by: BurtTC
---------------------------

"Peace through strength"

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 01:18 PM (lCWOD)

254 With all the public discussions going on about B-2's and GBU-57A/B MOP's I think that's probably the very last option on the table. If it even is an option.

Misdirection is the absolute best tactic at this stage.

Iran's depleting their inventory of ballistic missiles and suicide drones. The factories that build them are compromised. Launchers are getting hit within minutes of launching a missile. The IAF can practically loiter in Iranian airspace with tanker support and pick them off one by one, 24X7.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 21, 2025 01:18 PM (Q4IgG)

255 Telegraphing the movement of invisible planes seems like a bold strategy.

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 01:19 PM (tuLbh)

256 Yep, you sure are.
Most of the killing the US did was during the Cold War which was a matter of life and death. The US played to win and yes, made mistakes while doing it. The reason you're able to scold me on the internet and tell me what I'm thinking is a product of us winning it.
Posted by: Dr. Claw at June 21, 2025 01:16 PM (3wi/L)

Nonsense.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:19 PM (OqgaI)

257 Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 01:06 PM (ZIggv)

Preparing for war does not mean waging it.

Men build their bodies, hone fighting and shooting skills to protect. Not to go out and actively fuck shit up.

Well, some do.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:20 PM (Wtvem)

258 "Peace through strength"

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 01:18 PM (lCWOD)

This is fun.

You know who else sought peace through strength?

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:20 PM (OqgaI)

259 I don't want my country to go to war. Period. I don't know what to expect... and neither does anyone else.

We're not going to goddamn war. Trump said in one-syllable words "No troops on the ground". We'll stick with what we're good at and avoid the "nation building".

Posted by: Ian S. at June 21, 2025 01:20 PM (QZThv)

260
*singing*
F is for friends who do stuff together
U is for uranium bombs
N is for no survivors!

Posted by: Plankton at June 21, 2025 01:20 PM (wVcYX)

261 You know who else sought peace through strength?

Hitler was a painter, so Bob Ross was a Nazi.

Posted by: Ian S. at June 21, 2025 01:21 PM (QZThv)

262 Needs more happy trees.

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 01:22 PM (tuLbh)

263 Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:18 PM (OqgaI)

After the GWOT and learning about the wars we were lied into? Yeah I’m with you.

However, if we have to go to war, and I mean not for some BS nonsense, then we should hoist the black flag and let them know entire bloodlines will be wiped away.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:22 PM (Wtvem)

264 Apropos of nothing, I picked up just about the final piece in my Cold War Battle Rifle collection. A beast of a Swiss STGw57.

I will try to post a photo on the gub thread.

If I could bring myself to buy a French M49/56, I think I will be just about complete. I have US, German, Spanish, British, Italian, Israeli, Austrian, and Australian full sized rifles.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 01:23 PM (jc0TO)

265 Guam has a KFC.

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 01:23 PM (tuLbh)

266 However, if we have to go to war, and I mean not for some BS nonsense, then we should hoist the black flag and let them know entire bloodlines will be wiped away.

Absolutely no more calling a Karen lawyer in DC to ask permission to kill the enemy. (We would've killed bin Laden pre-9/11 if not for that).

Posted by: Ian S. at June 21, 2025 01:24 PM (QZThv)

267 Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 01:23 PM (jc0TO)

I see you’re a man of culture.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:24 PM (Wtvem)

268 This is fun.

You know who else sought peace through strength?
Posted by: BurtTC
------------------------

Come back when you sober up.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 01:24 PM (lCWOD)

269 Posted by: Ian S. at June 21, 2025 01:24 PM (QZThv)

Generally agree but it should be based on true and accurate Intel. Not what we’ve been fed for decades….

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:25 PM (Wtvem)

270 265

'Guam has a KFC.'

KFCs are huge overseas for some damn reason.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at June 21, 2025 01:25 PM (3wi/L)

271 I see you’re a man of culture.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:24 PM

The Stg is ridiculously overengineered, like a fine watch.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 01:25 PM (jc0TO)

272 GARDEN THREAD IS BLOOMING

Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2025 01:25 PM (+qU29)

273 Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 01:23 PM (tuLbh)

That fucker still hasn’t tipped over?

Asking for a congressman

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:25 PM (Wtvem)

274 Generally agree but it should be based on true and accurate Intel. Not what we’ve been fed for decades….

For sure. Anything the CIA "thinks" is right out, because they don't.

Posted by: Ian S. at June 21, 2025 01:26 PM (QZThv)

275 Are they going to start this during Toyotathon?

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 01:26 PM (tuLbh)

276 And heavy. I think it is the 2nd heaviest rifle that I own.

Those Swiss boys must be strong.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 01:26 PM (jc0TO)

277 Posted by: Ian S. at June 21, 2025 01:26 PM (QZThv)

The CIA is a lot of things but one thing nobody ever mentions is, they are a business and business is booming. The entire intel community needs to be razed and rebuilt. Won’t happen but it should. Best we can hope for is good people in charge and wholesale change.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:27 PM (Wtvem)

278 Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 01:26 PM (jc0TO)

How heavy you guess?

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:28 PM (Wtvem)

279 However, if we have to go to war, and I mean not for some BS nonsense, then we should hoist the black flag and let them know entire bloodlines will be wiped away.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:22 PM (Wtvem)

My position is, and people are free to disagree with me, is that we have not been in a "necessary" war since WWII.

But we talk ourselves into them, and each time the new reason is presented as if it's an existential threat.

And then we find out later that it was a lie. So how's about we just pause. Stop. For at least a while. Pull everyone out of the middle east, pull everyone out of Asia, out of Europe, and see what happens.

Or put the Monroe doctrine back in practice. Whatever.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:28 PM (6xOU3)

280 The entire intel community needs to be razed and rebuilt. Won’t happen but it should.

Same with the State Department. O'Keefe reeled in "another chatty gay guy" (as coined by Joe Rogan and Aaron Rodgers) who wanted Elon publicly executed by the government.

Marco Rubio fired the guy less than an hour after the video went up, which is good, but it makes you wonder what else is lurking there.

Posted by: Ian S. at June 21, 2025 01:29 PM (QZThv)

281 KFCs are huge overseas for some damn reason.
Posted by: Dr. Claw

So is Spam.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 21, 2025 01:30 PM (aRxqp)

282 Come back when you sober up.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 01:24 PM (lCWOD)

I'd have to go out and get drunk first.

You know who else didn't drink though.....

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:30 PM (6xOU3)

283 Telegraphing the movement of invisible planes seems like a bold strategy.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 01:19 PM (tuLbh)

I'm stealing this.

But remember, stealth is not invisible. It is merely being less visible. Instead of a radar picking you up at say, fifty miles, it can't see you until 25 miles. Bottom line, if you get close enough, the radar will see you.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 21, 2025 01:30 PM (W/lyH)

284 How heavy you guess?
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:28 PM

Maybe 11 lbs with a loaded mag. I should have put it on the scale just now as I was cleaning it.

I will do that today sometime.

The weight is a feature in some ways. I was shooting it off hand and the weight and all the weird roller delayed stuff was really eating up the recoil on what is essentially a 30-06 cartridge.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 01:30 PM (jc0TO)

285 Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:28 PM (6xOU3)

You’re not going to find much disagreement from me on me. I am looking for a great history of the Cold War as I want to understand it beyond commies v the USA.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:31 PM (Wtvem)

286 You know who else didn't drink though.....

Norah O'Donnell?

Oh, wait, she just rejected Ace's "pudding".

Posted by: Ian S. at June 21, 2025 01:31 PM (QZThv)

287 Are they going to start this during Toyotathon?
Posted by: Boss Moss

Toyota Jan haz the sadz.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 21, 2025 01:32 PM (aRxqp)

288 Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 01:30 PM (jc0TO)

Imagine sprinting with that thing and hip firing as you dash into cover.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:32 PM (Wtvem)

289 280

'Marco Rubio fired the guy less than an hour after the video went up, which is good'

No. It isn't. First you bug them to find out who they're talking to, THEN you fire them.

Posted by: Henry Kissinger at June 21, 2025 01:32 PM (3wi/L)

290 Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 01:30 PM (jc0TO)

Imagine sprinting with that thing and hip firing as you dash into cover.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:32 PM

It's like saddling everyone with an M60.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 01:32 PM (jc0TO)

291 281
'KFCs are huge overseas for some damn reason.
Posted by: Dr. Claw

So is Spam.'

Coincidence?.....

Yeah, probably.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at June 21, 2025 01:34 PM (3wi/L)

292 You’re not going to find much disagreement from me on me. I am looking for a great history of the Cold War as I want to understand it beyond commies v the USA.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:31 PM (Wtvem)

There were a few books I read after the fall of the Soviet Union, when their archives were opened. It seems a lot of what we believed at the time was simply not accurate.

One of the things we kept arguing for was the whole domino theory, and in essence what we learned was that the Soviets were basically doing the exact same thing we were doing. In other words, they were "over there" because we were, and we were "over there" because they were.

Another thing we learned is that our CIA was a complete and abysmal failure, from start to finish, and when our agents were not already working for the Soviets, they were easily batted down, because the Soviets knew exactly who they were, where they were, and who their contact behind the Iron Curtain were.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:35 PM (6xOU3)

293 Telegraphing the movement of invisible planes seems like a bold strategy.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 01:19 PM (tuLbh)

I'm stealing this.

But remember, stealth is not invisible. It is merely being less visible. Instead of a radar picking you up at say, fifty miles, it can't see you until 25 miles. Bottom line, if you get close enough, the radar will see you.
Posted by: Diogenes

But wrongly telegraphing the movement of invisible planes make neurotics like goat fuckers chase all over the desert. Remember, they still blame Joo dolphins over some stuff.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 21, 2025 01:35 PM (aRxqp)

294 I am surprised KFC has not done Kentucky fried spam.

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at June 21, 2025 01:35 PM (YUL+W)

295 Better. it's like saddling every soldier with a Bren gun.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 01:35 PM (jc0TO)

296 How can you tell a Jewish dolphin? Some sort of yarmulke?

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at June 21, 2025 01:36 PM (YUL+W)

297 I was trying to come up with something about a circumcised nose but could not make it work.

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at June 21, 2025 01:36 PM (YUL+W)

298 I was trying to come up with something about a circumcised nose but could not make it work.
Posted by: Aetius451AD

Same. LOL.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 21, 2025 01:37 PM (aRxqp)

299 >>>commies v the USA.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One
------------------------------------------

It was the driver. A serious driver.

There is an older series, very good one. I'm amazed it made it on.
"The Americans", it won't answer your question but it will give you a slice of the communist threat.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 01:37 PM (lCWOD)

300 Gardening thread is up.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 21, 2025 01:38 PM (aRxqp)

301 How can you tell a Jewish dolphin? Some sort of yarmulke?
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at June 21, 2025 01:36 PM (YUL+W)

Never pays retail?

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 01:38 PM (rWvc2)

302 Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:35 PM (6xOU3)

Interesting. I wonder if those archives were an OP too.

Joe McCarthy was right all along. If we would have handled our own internal Commies America would look a lot differently.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:38 PM (Wtvem)

303 The Venona Papers was a revelation and proved how much the Soviets had infiltrated our government

Posted by: Smell the Glove at June 21, 2025 01:38 PM (IG2sK)

304 Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:38 PM (Wtvem)

Much easier for adversaries to operate in a free society.

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 01:40 PM (rWvc2)

305 Never pays retail?
Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 01:38 PM (rWvc2)

Lolls around in the warm water having a schvitz.

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at June 21, 2025 01:40 PM (YUL+W)

306 Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 01:37 PM (lCWOD)

I’ve no doubt that wasn’t a driver. Communism is a weird virus that just consumes and consumes until it can’t find a host but still somehow survives without one.

I’m just saying there had to be more. Maybe I’m wrong and willing to admit as much.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:40 PM (Wtvem)

307 Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 01:40 PM (rWvc2)

True. I’m still making my way through Witness by Whittaker Chambers.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:42 PM (Wtvem)

308 Communism plays on fundamental impulses of humanity. BUT, in practice, it is used as a tool for the few to gain and control the many. It does not understand people on the whole. It harnesses impulses and then the people at the top try to harness it for their own ends.

Objectivism understands people better but is too cynical on the other end.

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at June 21, 2025 01:44 PM (YUL+W)

309 > Marco Rubio fired the guy less than an hour after the video went up, which is good, but it makes you wonder what else is lurking there.
------------
A video surfaced this morning of some fuckwad claiming he just applied for a job with ICE.... for the specific intent of telling "the Mexican community" where ICE is operating.

I'd bet even money he gets through the interview process.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 21, 2025 01:46 PM (Q4IgG)

310 True. I’m still making my way through Witness by Whittaker Chambers.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:42 PM (Wtvem)

A useful temporary idiot who saw the light and came out of the darkness.

David Horowitz is our generations Whitaker.

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 01:48 PM (rWvc2)

311 Why they all gotta be Mexican, man?

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at June 21, 2025 01:48 PM (YUL+W)

312 >>>I’m just saying there had to be more. Maybe I’m wrong and willing to admit as much.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One
---------------------------

There are always ancillary things.
We had just finished WWII, Stalin ruled Russia and Stalin was as insane or more than Hitler. It was a viscous and ruthless period.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 01:48 PM (lCWOD)

313 Lot of A400s to and from Europe.

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 01:49 PM (tuLbh)

314 I am not sure Stalin was actually insane- just a psychopath. Pretty much everything he did made sense for someone with no morals or empathy beyond his own well being.

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at June 21, 2025 01:50 PM (YUL+W)

315 There are always ancillary things.
We had just finished WWII, Stalin ruled Russia and Stalin was as insane or more than Hitler. It was a viscous and ruthless period.
Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 01:48 PM (lCWOD)

The 1948 Berlin blockade and subsequent airlift is a quandary for me as I can't decide if brilliant strategy or resulted in kicking the can down the road for 40 years of negative consequences .

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 01:51 PM (rWvc2)

316 However, if we have to go to war, and I mean not for some BS nonsense, then we should hoist the black flag and let them know entire bloodlines will be wiped away.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:22 PM (Wtvem)

There is a scale to conflict.
If attacked by a "lone wolf" and you catch him, trial and execution.
If sponsored by a non-state actor, find and execute the group.
If a state sponsored attack, hammer the state. This can be proportional. A one time event vs continuous low level conflict.
If a true act of war, ala Pearl Harbor or Oct 7th, then total war. This is existential war fighting. No end until victory.
But...total war is influenced by the environment. Who and where is the enemy? How are they equipped? What will it take to win? And what does victory look like?
Simple questions with difficult answers.
Iran will be easy to bomb, but "winning" will be very difficult.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 21, 2025 01:52 PM (W/lyH)

317 The fact that Homer in the Odyssey describes flat breads sweetened with walnuts and honey suggests baklava may have a Greek origin. Certainly it is widespread throughout the old Ottoman Empire, and has a long history in Persia.

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 01:52 PM (qgNn3)

318 306
'I’m just saying there had to be more. Maybe I’m wrong and willing to admit as much.'

The US, in the earliest stages of the Cold War was deeply concerned about European and Asian countries weakened by WWII turning Communist. The Soviet Union had an aggressive infiltration network in those countries.
I hate to recommend this since CNN is the source but I would watch The Cold War miniseries on YouTube.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at June 21, 2025 01:52 PM (3wi/L)

319 Interesting. I wonder if those archives were an OP too.

Joe McCarthy was right all along. If we would have handled our own internal Commies America would look a lot differently.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at June 21, 2025 01:38 PM (Wtvem)

Someone way more committed to it than I would have to sort it out. I do believe there were legit scholars who were allowed to peruse the archives. I'm also sure there were operatives, both CIA and Russian, who decided to misdirect when and where they could.

And eventually, I assume the Russians basically figured out they didn't need to air all their dirty laundry, so they stopped letting any of the "good stuff" get out.

Sorta like how our Deep State is never going to allow us to see the real files on JFK/RFK murders, or the Epstein op.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:53 PM (R2uDs)

320 Posted by: Diogenes at June 21, 2025 01:52 PM (W/lyH

Winning to me is if the action somehow allows for a popular successful uprising . It's failed previously unfortunately.

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 01:54 PM (rWvc2)

321 East Asia has gone dark.

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 01:54 PM (tuLbh)

322
Where is Skip?

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 01:54 PM (lCWOD)

323 @JasonMBrodsky . 4h

As Ali Larijani, former parliament speaker and advisor to #Iran's regime's supreme leader, threatens the IAEA director-general, worth recalling his daughter lives and works in the United States.

As the regime in Iran has been holding Americans hostage (there have been unconfirmed reports of Americans seized in recent days), the U.S. allows family members of the Islamic Republic's officials to reside here. There's something wrong with that picture.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 01:55 PM (lCWOD)

324 I am not sure Stalin was actually insane- just a psychopath. Pretty much everything he did made sense for someone with no morals or empathy beyond his own well being.
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at June 21, 2025 01:50 PM (YUL+W)

Oh, you said "Stalin."

I misread that at first, I thought it said "damn near every politician in DC."

I should put on my glasses. Or start drinking, as has been suggested.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 01:56 PM (R2uDs)

325 Here we go

Gideon Sa'ar | גדעון סער@gidonsaar . 1h

The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps – the terror arm of the Iranian regime – tried to carry out an attack on Israeli citizens in Cyprus.

Thanks to the activity of the Cypriot security authorities, in cooperation with Israeli security services, the terror attack was thwarted.

Israel thanks Cyprus for its swift and effective actions.
The Iranian criminal regime is deliberately targeting Israeli civilians both in Israel and abroad.

Israel will continue to act to remove the existential threat posed by the Iranian terror regime

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 02:00 PM (lCWOD)

326 > The Soviet Union had an aggressive infiltration network in those countries.
----------
The Soviets infiltrated the US too. They're still here. Or their prodigies are. Many are probably in government, others in the media and, of course, in academia.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 21, 2025 02:02 PM (Q4IgG)

327 Damn just saw photos posted on Fox News site.

I wonder if Karen Reade is available for courting.

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 02:03 PM (rWvc2)

328 Stalin was a power hungry psychopath

Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2025 02:03 PM (+qU29)

329 326
'The Soviets infiltrated the US too. They're still here. '

It was so successful it survived the collapse of the USSR.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at June 21, 2025 02:03 PM (3wi/L)

330 Damn just saw photos posted on Fox News site.

I wonder if Karen Reade is available for courting.
Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 02:03 PM (rWvc2)

Don't let her drive.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 21, 2025 02:04 PM (R2uDs)

331 The Soviets infiltrated the US too. They're still here. Or their prodigies are. Many are probably in government, others in the media and, of course, in academia.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 21, 2025 02:02 PM (Q4IgG)

David Horowitz exposed what we all knew with facts.

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 02:04 PM (rWvc2)

332 327
'I wonder if Karen Reade is available for courting.'

She's so hot she'll knock you off your feet.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at June 21, 2025 02:04 PM (3wi/L)

333 Don't try to ground guide her.

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 02:08 PM (tuLbh)

334 Iran International English@IranIntl_En . 5h

A video sent to Iran International shows damage to the cyber police (FATA) headquarters in Tehran, which monitors online activity and has prosecuted citizens over social media content.

https://tinyurl.com/wfcrw4t4

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 02:11 PM (lCWOD)

335 Winning to me is if the action somehow allows for a popular successful uprising . It's failed previously unfortunately.
Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 01:54 PM (rWvc2)

Agreed.
It's going to take the people there to make it happen. Their boots in other words, not ours. Iran is huge. It's 700 miles from Kuwait City to Tehran. 900 miles from Van Turkey. Our Army isn't big enough to seize and hold that terrain.
And even if it could, I'm not so sure they'd be greeted with cheering crowds.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 21, 2025 02:15 PM (W/lyH)

336 Yikes. 255oz or 15.9lbs with a full mag, bayonet, and sling. That makes it the heaviest rifle I own. My paratrooper FAL with bipod, 30rd mag, and LPO weight 14.8lbs.

The 57 could also mount an optic which would take it north of 19lbs. We are getting into BAR territory.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 02:15 PM (jc0TO)

337 Beast.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 02:16 PM (jc0TO)

338 Damn just saw photos posted on Fox News site.

I wonder if Karen Reade is available for courting.
Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 02:03 PM (rWvc2)

A friend of mine was a Tacoma cop. We'd go grab a beer from time to time at the local cop hangout. Cop groupies are hawt.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 21, 2025 02:18 PM (W/lyH)

339 Our Army isn't big enough to seize and hold that terrain.
And even if it could, I'm not so sure they'd be greeted with cheering crowds.
Posted by: Diogenes at June 21, 2025 02:15 PM

It is mostly not tank country either.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 02:18 PM (jc0TO)

340 Someone in this morning’s prayer thread said you could see the remnants of the moon landings in telescopes, to which another commenter rejoined that it was beyond the diffraction limit even for the Hubble Space Telescope. That intrigued me, so I checked it out: using the Rayleigh criterion from classical optics I found the minimum resolution angle in the UV for the Hubble to be 5 x 10^-8 radians. The LEM IS a little over 4 m wide and is, on average 3.843 x 10^8 m away. The angle it subtends is about 1 x 10^-8 radians. So you really can’t see it with the Hubble even in UV. What about the James Webb Space telescope? It has a larger mirror. Problem is, it is specialized for IR astronomy and can just barely see red light at 600 nm. Because of this the Webb Space Telescope has a worse minimum angle of resolution at about 1 x 10^-7 radians. You can see the remnants of the landings on the Moon from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter that NASA has circling the Moon currently, but that may not satisfy doubters. Then again why would such doubters trust the Hubble or the Webb Space Telescopes since they are also both in orbit and beyond their reach?

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 02:19 PM (qgNn3)

341
Last night, Netanyahu announced that IDF intel has learned that Iran has 22,000 ballistic missiles in reserve!!
Unfortunately, Israel doesn't have anywhere near that level of munitions on hand.

While I (and a great many other supporters of Israel) are completely against America joining in preemptive military strikes on Iran: the US definitely needs to increase its military aid to Israel. They're set to run out of munitions in the next few weeks.
And they're not going to be able to defend themselves against Iranian retaliation without a BIG boost from us.

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 02:19 PM (+oqUV)

342 21m Western sources:

Ali Khamenei has instructed Hezbollah chief Naim Qassem to join the fighting and launch missiles at Israel.

Qassem is refusing to engage, fearing that the IDF will destroy Hezbollah in response.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 02:21 PM (lCWOD)

343 It is mostly not tank country either.
Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 02:18 PM (jc0TO)

There are hundreds of square miles of desert there that have a crusted surface but if you break through it, beneath are "flowing rivers of sand.".

Posted by: Diogenes at June 21, 2025 02:25 PM (W/lyH)

344 A friend of mine was a Tacoma cop. We'd go grab a beer from time to time at the local cop hangout. Cop groupies are hawt.
Posted by: Diogenes at June 21, 2025 02:18 PM (W/lyH)

Yeah I noticed that in all places, Poughkeepsie NY when I hung out at cop get togethers as a friend of a friend.

The cop who my friend was a friend with was crooked as shit and either killed himself or was killed. Was missing for months and found him floating in the Hudson after the ice flows melted. The FBI had been searching for him . Even tapped my friend's phone ( my friend was a straight arrow who wasn't involved)

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 02:25 PM (rWvc2)

345 Foucault had a feud with Derrida and did not accept his framing of "logocentrism" in particular.
Just as well the bulk of that midwit (if that) Quillette article is paywalled, because I already know it is not worth reading.

Posted by: gKWVE at June 21, 2025 02:26 PM (uxZu+)

346 A circumcised nose is cutting off your nose to spite you face!

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 02:27 PM (qgNn3)

347 There are hundreds of square miles of desert there that have a crusted surface but if you break through it, beneath are "flowing rivers of sand.".
Posted by: Diogenes at June 21, 2025 02:25 PM

I was looking at the topo and big mountain ranges running NW to SE. Two between Tehran and the Persian gulf.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 02:28 PM (jc0TO)

348 I was looking at the topo and big mountain ranges running NW to SE. Two between Tehran and the Persian gulf.
Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 02:28 PM (jc0TO)

Yup!
Not maneuver friendly at all.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 21, 2025 02:30 PM (W/lyH)

349 > Ali Khamenei has instructed Hezbollah chief Naim Qassem to join the fighting and launch missiles at Israel.

Qassem is refusing to engage, fearing that the IDF will destroy Hezbollah in response.
------------
This Qassem dude seems to have his finger on the pulse of the IDF. The Mossad probably called his cellphone and told him Khamenei can't keep him from being blown up tomorrow either, if he abides.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 21, 2025 02:31 PM (Q4IgG)

350 If logistics allowed for Israel to conduct a ground war I'd put my money on them only because I saw Iraq and Iran fight to a stand still for 8 years while we overthrew Saddam in two weeks from 7000 miles away.

Posted by: polynikes at June 21, 2025 02:31 PM (rWvc2)

351 If the Mullahs could use a nuke against us they will. And the Persians, being smarter than Arabs, might be smart enough to pull it off, especially with help from the Chinese. On the other hand, let’s say they have a dozen or so A-bombs. They can take out almost all of Israel and several cities in the US, if not thwarted. But we have about 3,700 nuclear warheads in our arsenal, most of which are H-bombs, not puny A-bombs. After the first Iranian A-bomb goes off, anywhere, how many of our H-bombs are going to go off, all over the former Iran?

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 02:37 PM (qgNn3)

352
The hardest part of accepting the hard truth that Iran is at most 19 months away from acquiring a nuclear weapon is the first 20 years.

- Just sayin'.

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 02:39 PM (+oqUV)

353 NightWatch at Andrews.

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 02:40 PM (tuLbh)

354 Continued from 351 -
This is why it may be necessary to take out their underground nuclear facilities with nuclear bunker busters. It is a question of our survival.

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 02:40 PM (qgNn3)

355 Just sayin'

And you're a passive-aggressive troll with a martyr complex.
- Just sayin'.

Posted by: gKWVE at June 21, 2025 02:41 PM (uxZu+)

356 > NightWatch at Andrews.
-------
Routine. I've seen one of the E-4B "Doomsday" planes a number of times as they practice refueling overhead.

I'm under one of the CONUS air refueling tracks, so when they're up training I see all sorts of stuff overhead. They're at 20 some odd thousand feet, well below commercial air lanes.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 21, 2025 02:44 PM (Q4IgG)

357 What’s this I keep hearing about bombing Bordeaux? Bordeaux is a lovely part of France with beautiful people, and they make such delicious wine not to mention cognac. Why would you want to bomb Bordeaux! Oh, Fordow?! Never mind!

- Emily Litella

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 02:46 PM (qgNn3)

358 Some quick snaps of the beast

Fat Emma
https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjCiLmy

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 02:48 PM (jc0TO)

359 After the first Iranian A-bomb goes off, anywhere, how many of our H-bombs are going to go off, all over the former Iran?
Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit
-----------------------------------

Trump is putting so many assets in the region to deter any thought of joining in. The Israelis are doing a good job on Iranian sites and actors we need to keep them supplied with materiel.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 03:01 PM (lCWOD)

360 I am surprised KFC has not done Kentucky fried spam.
----------
The OnCue convenience stores in OKC have started offering fried spam sandwiches that come with a thick slice of fried spam, barbecue sauce, and mustard on a regular sized bun. At $1.99 for the sandwich or $2.69 for the sandwich and a fountain drink, its a good deal.

Posted by: Crusader at June 21, 2025 03:03 PM (TN0g+)

361 Can the Massive Ordinance Penetrator (MOP) take out Fordow without the use of a nuclear warhead? If possible, it would be preferable to the use of nukes against Iran. (We had to use a nuke against Iran to keep them from using nukes is a bit of a sell.)

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 03:04 PM (qgNn3)

362 The OnCue convenience stores in OKC have started offering fried spam sandwiches that come with a thick slice of fried spam, barbecue sauce, and mustard on a regular sized bun. At $1.99 for the sandwich or $2.69 for the sandwich and a fountain drink, its a good deal.

I’d buy that for a dollar! (or $1.99, as the case may be.)

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 03:08 PM (qgNn3)

363 361 Can the Massive Ordinance Penetrator (MOP) take out Fordow without the use of a nuclear warhead? If possible, it would be preferable to the use of nukes against Iran. (We had to use a nuke against Iran to keep them from using nukes is a bit of a sell.)

Nobody really knows. It probably can't dig a crater that deep, but it might collapse the underground structure. It depends on the engineering and materials that went into it, and that we don't know.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 21, 2025 03:09 PM (Riz8t)

364 Fire can't melt steel.

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 03:11 PM (tuLbh)

365 https://tinyurl.com/3s8rfbdh
Live feed video of reenactment of Battle of Bunker Hill

Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2025 03:11 PM (+qU29)

366 Nobody really knows. It probably can't dig a crater that deep, but it might collapse the underground structure. It depends on the engineering and materials that went into it, and that we don't know.
Posted by: Archimedes

Then err on the side of caution and nuke Fordow until it glows, Emily Litella notwithstanding! Make the rubble bounce!

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 03:14 PM (qgNn3)

367 Fat Emma's a big girl.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 03:14 PM (lCWOD)

368 Could a tactical nuke bring the targeted materials to critical mass?

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 03:16 PM (tuLbh)

369 > Can the Massive Ordinance Penetrator (MOP) take out Fordow without the use of a nuclear warhead? If possible, it would be preferable to the use of nukes against Iran. (We had to use a nuke against Iran to keep them from using nukes is a bit of a sell.)
----------
I don't think so. It was designed with the caves in Tora Bora in mind that our existing penetrators at the time couldn't reach. IIRC one was used on a Houthi hideout in Yemen earlier in the year. That was a cave-like structure that a bunch of their leadership was using.

The damage, at least from what video and photos I've seen, wasn't as impressive as you'd think. It did kill a lot of the Houthi terrorists however.

A big problem with Fordow is aimpoints. Where, exactly, under those mountains is this facility and more specifically, where's the chamber with the centrifuges that are, as I understand it, the primary target.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 21, 2025 03:16 PM (Q4IgG)

370 Fat Emma's a big girl.
Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 03:14 PM

It handles fairly well despite the length and weight. At least as well as other full power battle rifles. Balances right where your left hand goes on the ridiculously small front handguard.

It's not for door kickers though.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 03:19 PM (jc0TO)

371
gKWVE @ comment #355

Pitiful, puerile name calling is not an argument.
Let us know when you come up with one.

(- NOT holding my breath.)

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 03:20 PM (+oqUV)

372 I’ll back off my stated position: let’s drop a MOP or two, or even have the IAF drop them, if they can, and see if that does the job. If not then nuke Fordow. Get the job done!

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 03:24 PM (qgNn3)

373 The hardest part of accepting the hard truth that Iran is at most 19 months away from acquiring a nuclear weapon is the first 20 years.

- Just sayin'.
----------
I have no problem just accepting the *reality* that any nation that declares they WOULD use a nuke against us makes them a declared enemy. How quickly we should or shouldn't act is another discussion, but hair-splitting over whether they are 20 days, 20 months, or 20 years away from acquiring one doesn't matter to me. IF they've stated they would use a nuke against us, they need to b e destroyed and removed from power. Even if they were 20 years away, how do we know China wouldn't hand them a nuke tomorrow? Regime chance is necessary.

Posted by: Crusader at June 21, 2025 03:24 PM (TN0g+)

374 The British assault is starting

Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2025 03:25 PM (+qU29)

375
To remind you of my argument (which seems to have gone clear over you silly little head):

The consortium of Western intelligence communities (including our vaunted CIA) has been direly warning that Iran is mere months - not more than a year and some change! - from building a nuclear bomb. And they've been peddling this same LIE for more than 20 years.

Now having seen our own intelligence community weaponize itself against both candidate Trump and sitting President Trump for several years: When are we going to STOP BELIEVING THEIR LIES?

- Just wonderin'.

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 03:25 PM (+oqUV)

376 The British are coming.

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 03:26 PM (tuLbh)

377
As much as I hate the Iranian regime, they have never declared that should they acquire a nuclear weapon that they'd launch it against us.

If the Supreme Leader of Iran had EVER suggested such a thing, we would hear no end of that fact on Faux News and from the likes of warmonger Lindsey Graham.

They hate us. We hate them. But the leadership in Iran has never said it intended to use nuclear weapons against us.

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 03:28 PM (+oqUV)

378 Could a tactical nuke bring the targeted materials to critical mass?
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 03:16 PM (tuLbh)

No, though you've already set off a nuke, so I'm not sure why you're asking.

You need fairly specific conditions to get the fissile material concentrated enough to get the reaction going (for example, an implosion device uses charges which deliver force from many directions inward, which results in the desired concentration at the center of your material). A nuclear blast at any significant distance (which it will be since the reason your even considering using your own is that you can't penetrate to the lab) will deliver force that spreads out the target's material.

Posted by: Methos at June 21, 2025 03:29 PM (Dnobf)

379 Unimpeded the Mullahs would have nukes today and may even have them TODAY. They mean to end the world to bring the 12th imam out of the well. Regime change is necessary or the end of Iran as a nation, whichever is easier.

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 03:31 PM (qgNn3)

380 Having grow might not be good.

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 03:33 PM (tuLbh)

381
Nukes are off the table. Period.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 03:35 PM (lCWOD)

382 FWIW, here is a long disassembly video on the STGw-57 for those who might be interested.

https://youtu.be/RvN_rAgsBQU

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 03:36 PM (jc0TO)

383 I think the IC community lies all the time as a matter of policy. I also think the Mullahs are hell-bent (phrase used intentionally) on getting nukes or other WMDs. This cannot be allowed. The Mullahs must go! If we can give the Persian people a little nudge by taking out their military leadership and a substantial number of the Mullahs themselves then we should do it, or at least give Israel the tools and materiel to do it.

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 03:37 PM (qgNn3)

384 The threat of the Thursday night and Friday night surprise is past.
Soon, they will be part of the past.

The Ayatollah has given instructions, the names of three men to choose a successor from if he is killed. A list with targets of opportunity. Thank you.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 03:39 PM (lCWOD)

385
I am all in favor of arming and aiding Israel TO THE HILT! (They already have nukes; so we shouldn't arm them with any of those.)

And if there was actually ANY good reason to believe that Iran was on the verge of acquiring a nuclear bomb, I believe we'd have to look seriously at the option of full scale invasion and weigh the terrible costs we'd have to pay as a nation to launch such a war.

But that's not the situation we are in. We should only be dealing with the situation we are actually in. Not some hypothetical situation we have continuously been lied into fantasizing about for decades now.

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 03:48 PM (+oqUV)

386 Nukes are off the table. Period.
-
Probably. US policy has been (afaik) not to use them first, though bio/chem attacks us might be enough to justify them. It would have to be pretty bad, since 9/11 didn't kill enough of us to justify their use against Afghanistan in the eyes of President Bush.

There's probably a deterrent argument to be made that the attempt to develop them by a belligerent is grounds enough to use them preemptively, but it's ultimately President Trump's decision and I don't see him making it.

Posted by: Methos at June 21, 2025 03:52 PM (Dnobf)

387
Hey, remember just a couple years ago the rumor (which turned out to have zero factual basis, by the way) which the Western intelligence community floated that Putin had expressed an intention to use tactical nukes in Ukraine?

Why, we were just horrified! I mean, the very thought was evil incarnate!

And now here WE are calmly discussing whether we should use a nuclear bomb on Iran.

Enough of the rank hypocrisy, already!!

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 03:55 PM (+oqUV)

388 Are we sure that dropping Stacey Abrams from a high enough altitude wouldn't be enough to destroy Fordow? Perhaps even a follow up shot by dropping Lizzo next?

Posted by: Crusader at June 21, 2025 03:57 PM (TN0g+)

389 And now here WE are calmly discussing whether we should use a nuclear bomb on Iran.
--------
Not many of us have been discussing that. From what I understand a nuke won't accomplish the objective (destroying the bunker 200 feet underground)--it would merely kill anyone unfortunate enough to be above ground nearby. Nuking Iran is a bit of a strawman at this point.

Posted by: Crusader at June 21, 2025 03:59 PM (TN0g+)

390
Now all that said, I've also got to say that the Stacey Abrams bomb option has both merit and promise!

- Just hopin'!

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 04:00 PM (+oqUV)

391 Why, we were just horrified! I mean, the very thought was evil incarnate!
-
Who is this "we" you're talking about?

I don't care about Ukraine, and wouldn't be terribly surprised to see anyone use tactical nukes if the situation required it. There just aren't that many situations that would require it.

I'm sure we had discussions here about whether they'd be of using against mountain caves in Afghanistan, but maybe you weren't here for that.

Posted by: Methos at June 21, 2025 04:01 PM (Dnobf)

392

I agree, Crusader. I don't believe that nuking Iran is under any kind of consideration for President Trump. (I sure hope not!)

But the media (including Faux News) have been calmly discussing it as something our military brass has been considering.

And the media has not expressed alarm over the insanity of such a measure.

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 04:03 PM (+oqUV)

393
Sorry - I didn't mean to suggest that most commenters here at Ace of Spades weren't horrified at the notion of using nuclear weapons to attack Iran.
Not my intention at all.

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 04:04 PM (+oqUV)

394 Not many of us have been discussing that. From what I understand a nuke won't accomplish the objective (destroying the bunker 200 feet underground)--it would merely kill anyone unfortunate enough to be above ground nearby. Nuking Iran is a bit of a strawman at this point.
-
There was some discussion of a nuclear bunker buster a couple of days ago, but from what I recall, in order to combine "nuclear" and "bunker buster" you'd need a such a small device, that the yield would be less than what we used against Japan. And it didn't sound like it would be much more effective than the MOP, it'd be more about making a statement.

Posted by: Methos at June 21, 2025 04:05 PM (Dnobf)

395 I merely meant to point out that Western media were breathless at the bogus rumor that Putin was ready to do it but have been casual at the thought of America doing it.

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 04:06 PM (+oqUV)

396 Hmmmmm, Iranian missiles seem to be detonating just a few meters after launching.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 21, 2025 04:11 PM (ZIggv)

397 Ah, I see. I don't pay much attention to US media unless ace or someone on twitter links them.

Posted by: Methos at June 21, 2025 04:12 PM (Dnobf)

398 Hmmmmm, Iranian missiles seem to be detonating just a few meters after launching.
-
Is that what the Israeli ambassador was hinting at, maybe?

I was wondering what they could do to compete with Grim Beeper, given that most of Iran's generals were already dead.

Posted by: Methos at June 21, 2025 04:14 PM (Dnobf)

399 I watched a video on the history of fortifications and bunker busting bombs from WWI to the present day. The Fordow Fuel Enrichment Plant was built with improved concrete called UHP designed to withstand bunker busters. So now I want the the first B-2 we send to drop two bunker busters: the second bomb to fall in the crater formed by the first. Follow up with more B-2s with double bunker busters. If after a few days of bombing we have no intelligence that it’s working, we need to follow up with B61-12/13 nuclear bombs to take out bunkers.

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 04:23 PM (qgNn3)

400 But the leadership in Iran has never said it intended to use nuclear weapons against us.

tinyurl.com/dczeapps

That is I believe called "plausible deniability". Cute little implications with, in this case, a threat behind them. But, you know that. You know all about cute little implications.

MY real question is - does Back in Blacksodomize goats?
Just spitballing here. Well, not on any members as might be introduced into los cabritos.

Posted by: gKWVE at June 21, 2025 04:29 PM (uxZu+)

401 If you have an argument to make, make it.
Don't couch it in "don't shoot the messenger! I'm just askin' questions! I'm just exercising my Murrkin Rights!"
You do that, I see through your rhetoric. And I have contempt for it, and for you.

Posted by: gKWVE at June 21, 2025 04:31 PM (uxZu+)

402
gKWVE,

When I enter the dczeapps into TinyURL it says "invalid" link.

Got anything, better? (- Serious, respectful question.)

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 04:33 PM (+oqUV)

403
gKWVE,

I've made the argument repeatedly now. By their comments, others here have clearly understood the argument. But as I said, my argument appears to have gone over your silly little head.

But your contemptuous contempt is quite amusing.
- Keep it up, bro!

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 04:36 PM (+oqUV)

404 I think he meant “deezenuts”!

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 04:37 PM (qgNn3)

405
gKWVE,

Hey, why don't you just provide the quote (and its date) of Iran's Supreme Leader threatening to use nukes against us.

Let the commenters here judge for themselves whether you've actually discovered a relevant fact.

Provide the quote, please.

(Just for you... I'll hold my breath on this one.)

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 04:39 PM (+oqUV)

406
Okay, gKWVE, that was 7 breaths I held! - Just for you!

(Admittedly, the last 6 were me holding my nose due to the putrid lack of substance of your comments. But, hey, they were still just for you!)

Can't help but notice that you have absolutely no relevant substance in the way of either fact or argument to offer. (- Just sayin'.)

Do you need more time?

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 04:45 PM (+oqUV)

407 Hah! I just saw someone reference that video of Hank Johnson playing that woefully out of tune Stratocaster and referring to it as a "mostly peaceful guitar"!

Posted by: Crusader at June 21, 2025 04:55 PM (TN0g+)

408 : gKWVE at June 21, 2025 04:29 PM (uxZu+),

You're on the right track but it's the goats sodomizing him.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 04:56 PM (lCWOD)

409 Gawd. One day into summer and its raining, cold, I'm wrapped in a blanket and I'm bored.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 21, 2025 05:03 PM (W/lyH)

410
Multiple, independent engineers have publicly thrown cold water on the notion that conventional munitions (including the ‘almighty’ bunker busters) will reliably destroy the facilities fortified deep under a MOUNTAIN RANGE at Fordow.
Hint: these facilities are not housed in a mere bunker. This is not the Taliban or Osama Bin Laden holed up in a hideaway bunker a few dozen meters beneath the earth’s surface. These facilities dug in DEEP under a MOUNTAIN protected by multiple layers of specially designed, heavily-steel-reinforced concrete. The fantasy that conventional munitions are going to eliminate these facilities is… well, an out of touch fantasy.

Preemptively attacking Iran using a nuclear weapon to get the job done is an evil fantasy – indulged only by deranged minds.

That only leaves one ‘feasible’ option: Full-Scale Invasion ala Iraq 2003. I am completely against this. But anyone who is not arguing for waging Full-Scale War against Iran to end its nuclear program cannot be taken seriously about the US launching a military strike on Iran for the purposes of ending its supposed nuclear program.

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 05:11 PM (+oqUV)

411 Commando raid on Fordow?

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 05:12 PM (tuLbh)

412 The fantasy that conventional munitions are going to eliminate these facilities is… well, an out of touch fantasy.

Won't know until it's tried.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 05:12 PM (jc0TO)

413 Although ultimately, the best way to decommission these facilities is for the new Persian government to do it under supervision as part of the peace treaty.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 05:16 PM (jc0TO)

414 But anyone who is not arguing for waging Full-Scale War against Iran to end its nuclear program cannot be taken seriously about the US launching a military strike on Iran for the purposes of ending its supposed nuclear program.
----------
Strawman.

Assumes your prefacing "facts" to be *facts*. Also assumes that war is akin to a light switch (on/off) rather than a dimmer switch (0-10).

Posted by: Crusader at June 21, 2025 05:17 PM (TN0g+)

415 I kind of want to know if the current 30Klbs BB can do the job or do we need to start building some 60Klb, or do 2 30Ks back to back down the same hole or something.

But, if what we have can't do the job, other bad actors will be heartened *cough*NK*cough*.

So knowing is a trade-off.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 05:19 PM (jc0TO)

416 The downside of Persian baklava is that Iranians put rosewater in all their sweets like the way the Brits used to. So their baklava ends up tasting like a bar of soap to me.

Posted by: Saber Alter at June 21, 2025 05:21 PM (AZg1Q)

417
I agree, toby928, that no one can be certain unless it's tried.
But there is an extremely high-probability that it will fail.

Regardless, if we bomb Iran, the Iranians will likely send barrages of hyper-sonic (mach-13) ballistic missiles at our many bases located throughout the region. We currently do NOT have the ability to defend against these hyper-sonic weapons. We're not even close!
With their hyper-sonic missiles, Iran has utterly bypassed Israel's Iron Dome and landed every single one its launched.
We will fair no better.
And then, after American many soldiers are killed: we will likely commit to a Full Scale War.

Is this REALLY what we want???
(Spoiler alert: NO!!!!!)

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 05:22 PM (+oqUV)

418 But there is an extremely high-probability that it will fail.

Or not.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 05:23 PM (jc0TO)

419 Is this REALLY what we want???
(Spoiler alert: NO!!!!!)

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 05:22 PM

I've been in favor of war with Iran for forty years.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 05:24 PM (jc0TO)

420
toby928, on that contentious point we'll just have to agree that we don't agree.

But can you see how our conventionally bombing Iran will likely lead to Iran retaliating against our military bases with the same hyper-sonic missiles they've repeatedly struck Israel with and that this will in turn lead to us going to Full-Scale War with Iran?

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 05:27 PM (+oqUV)

421 But can you see how our conventionally bombing Iran will likely lead to Iran retaliating against our military bases with the same hyper-sonic missiles they've repeatedly struck Israel with and that this will in turn lead to us going to Full-Scale War with Iran?

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 05:27 PM

Sure.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 05:28 PM (jc0TO)

422 411 Commando raid on Fordow?
Posted by: Boss Moss
--------------------------

Israel controls the skies then control the perimeter
bring in a couple of D-11s and dig a 200 ft crater
then bomb it.

Or maybe the guys inside would like a safe exit and leave the doors open.
Anyone call 'em up and ask?

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 05:28 PM (lCWOD)

423
Ah, toby928, that is an honest answer.
And while I completely disagree with it. I respect you for offering it.

And that is exactly what we should be discussing.
Are we really READY to preemptively provoke a Full-Scale War with Iran?
You say yes. I respectfully say no.

Any other discussion is not serious. It's fantasy.

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 05:29 PM (+oqUV)

424
(By the way, I once was also in favor of making preemptive war on the monstrously evil Iranian regime. While I still hate the Iranian regime, admittedly, I have changed my position on preemptively making war on them.)

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 05:33 PM (+oqUV)

425 An ILTV journalist Emily Schrader clains the Iranians are reporting a commando raid on Fordow.

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 05:33 PM (tuLbh)

426 I actually like rosewater so baklava drenched in it is a plus for me! So, can have your portion?

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 05:34 PM (qgNn3)

427 And that is exactly what we should be discussing.

How many times? I've heard you.

If you haven't swayed the audience by the power of your argument, repeating it isn't going to make it more convincing.

We have discussed this for over a week now at the HQ. Your opinion is among the minority here, not alone by any stretch and maybe only barely a minority considering the many variations possible, but less than half.

I am about talked out about something that I can't directly effect or anticipate. We will know how things turn out when they turn out.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 05:39 PM (jc0TO)

428 An LTV journalist Emily Schrader clains the Iranians are reporting a commando raid on Fordow.
Posted by: Boss Moss

Ah, the Spirit of Entebbe! Go IDF, go! Events on the ground may obviate all discussion here!

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 05:41 PM (qgNn3)

429 Ah, the Spirit of Entebbe! Go IDF, go! Events on the ground may obviate all discussion here!
Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 05:41 PM

*crosses fingers*

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 05:41 PM (jc0TO)

430
toby928,

Fair enough.

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 05:45 PM (+oqUV)

431
(But while it's always good to rehash the pros and cons of an honest argument, [what else is the ace comments section for?], I will also always be an advocate for exposing hypocritical, evil fantasists whenever they rear their deranged heads. Those, after all, only serve to muddy the waters of coherent dialogue.)

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 05:49 PM (+oqUV)

432 I will also always be an advocate for exposing hypocritical, evil fantasists whenever they rear their deranged heads. Those, after all, only serve to muddy the waters of coherent dialogue.)

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 05:49 P

What would we do without you.

Posted by: toby928 at June 21, 2025 05:51 PM (jc0TO)

433
- Exactly!

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 06:01 PM (+oqUV)

434
(I like to think of myself as carrying on the tradition of Socrates as an Athenian gadfly.
...With some fair emphasis on the gadfly portion.)

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 06:03 PM (+oqUV)

435 You ready to drink the hemlock, then?

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 06:25 PM (qgNn3)

436 Nood hobby thread!

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 06:26 PM (qgNn3)

437 Is this something?

https://is.gd/UrQog4

Posted by: Boss Moss at June 21, 2025 06:45 PM (tuLbh)

438 Why did anyone engage with this obvious troll?

Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at June 21, 2025 07:52 PM (qgNn3)

439
Socrates argued against both the ridiculous (WEAPONIZED) charges against him and against his death penalty. He did not want to be convicted and he did not want to die. But he was the ultimate patriotic citizen who felt a sacred duty (Jesus hadn't made the scene yet) to uphold Athenian law. He is the originator of the social compact a dutiful citizen shares with the State.
The sick, corrupt Athenian State government condemned him to death with most thinking that he would do what every one else did: bribe the guard, escape, and go into self-exile for a couple of years. Then return, and everyone pretends like the matter is settled.
Not Socrates.
His explicit message (see the Crito) was that in order for a healthy society to function and thrive, its laws must be taken seriously and obeyed by patriotic citizens. He was not going to join in the corrupt sham of flaunting Athenian law.

Me? I don't worship at the altar of democracy.
I worship only the Holy Father and my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

(But is there much doubt that if you, Nemo, could impose such a grim penalty that you would? - Call it a rhetorical question.)

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 08:05 PM (+oqUV)

440
By the way, Captain Nemo, I've been posting comments here at Ace of Spades since just before the 2004 election. I still remember ace's hilarious posts of traitorous John Kerry's secret Vietnam confessionary journal.
Since you've randomly declared me to be a "troll" - an amusing assertion, to be sure, - I'm just curious: How long have you been posting here?

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 08:10 PM (+oqUV)

441

Ah, Deranged Neocon Captain Nemo, it was an absolute pleasure exposing the sheer lunacy of your maniacal desire to make real the utter fantasy of deploying a nuclear device on a sovereign country in order to destroy an underground bunker.

Truly entertaining.
Now grab your Vaseline, go to your bunk, and fantasize away, you sick warmonger.

- Cheers!

Posted by: Bach In Black at June 21, 2025 08:18 PM (+oqUV)

442 The discussion if moot now. Trump gave the order.

Posted by: Methos at June 21, 2025 08:25 PM (Dnobf)

443 zerohedge
@zerohedge
*TRUMP: COMPLETED SUCCESSFUL ATTACK ON 3 NUCLEAR SITES IN IRAN

*ISRAEL NOTIFIED BY TRUMP ADMIN BEFORE US STRIKING IRAN: AXIOS

Posted by: Methos at June 21, 2025 08:29 PM (Dnobf)

444 zerohedge
@zerohedge
*TRUMP: WILL ADDRESS NATION AT 10:00 P.M

Posted by: Methos at June 21, 2025 08:30 PM (Dnobf)

445 Free content for whoever's on ONT detail tonight.

Posted by: Methos at June 21, 2025 08:30 PM (Dnobf)

446 8 If, for whatever reason, the 12th Imam is unable to fulfill his duties, well, you know the rest.

Here's hoping!

Posted by: The 13th Imam at June 21, 2025 11:09 AM (Y1sOo)
----
Sounds like The Paolo no?

Posted by: Ciampino - are they shiiiiiiiits at June 21, 2025 08:47 PM (sPQoU)

447 49
Communism and communists were an existential threat to America. Directly. You know it.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at June 21, 2025 11:29 AM (lCWOD)
----
Communism and communists ~~were~~ ARE an existential threat to America.

FIFY

Posted by: Ciampino - are they reds at June 21, 2025 09:24 PM (sPQoU)

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