THE MORNING RANT: Regarding Harvard and Its “Introductory” Math Course for its Students Who Can’t do 9th Grade Math

There is a story that has suddenly gained a lot of media traction, especially in conservative corners of the internet. Specifically, the story is about Harvard introducing a remedial math course for its students who arrive with “a lack of foundational algebra skills,” to use the language from a Harvard Crimson article titled “Harvard Launches New Intro Math Course to Address Pandemic Learning Loss”

Among the outlets running stories in recent days are:

Powerlineblog: “Harvard Students Can’t Do Math”

Real Clear Education: “Harvard Launches New Remedial Math Course”

and even The Times of India: “3% Admission Rate? Why Harvard’s New Introductory Math Course is Under Fire”

Investor Elad Gil has had hundreds of thousands of views of this tweet, which takes aim at Harvard for rejecting 97% of applicants for enrollment, while still needing to teach an introductory math class to some of the 3% who make the cut:

What is Harvard's 3% admissions rate selecting for �� pic.twitter.com/N9bpOd36IB
— Elad Gil (@eladgil) March 19, 2025

The Harvard Crimson article that everyone is referencing is actually from last September, at which time I offered up some thoughts here at Ace of Spades about Harvard needing to teach 9th grade math to its incoming students. Our friend Mike LaChance at Legal Insurrection also gave some coverage to the story, but other than that, it didn’t really gain traction in conservative media.

I’m not sure why this story is finally getting some exposure, but because: 1) I’ve already written about this; and 2) I only have time for a quick post today, I am going to re-publish my piece from last September.

Below the fold is my original post from 9/13/2024:

*****

Harvard has launched an “Introductory” math course for students who don’t belong at Harvard.

Actually, “students who don’t belong at Harvard” isn’t really fair, because whatever Harvard might have once been, there is nothing “elite” about those who get admitted to Harvard any longer - neither intellectually nor in character. With a student body heavily composed of privileged nepots whose parents purchased their enrollment, affirmative action admits, and Jew-hating foreigners, Harvard is more odious than elite these days.

So it’s not surprising that Harvard is having to introduce remedial math classes to bring its very special student body up to par with the proficiency level expected of 9th graders in a typical American suburb.

“Harvard Launches New Intro Math Course to Address Pandemic Learning Loss” [The Harvard Crimson – 9/02/2024]

The Harvard Math Department will pilot a new introductory course aimed at rectifying a lack of foundational algebra skills among students, according to Harvard’s Director of Introductory Math, Brendan A. Kelly.
He said the Covid-19 pandemic led to gaps in students’ math skills and learning abilities, prompting the need for a new introductory course.

Many thousands of students not accepted into “elite” Ivy League schools are heading off to college without the need for remedial math tutoring. I don’t know for a fact that every student admitted to a Kennesaw State or a Western Kentucky is smarter than the typical Harvard enrollee, but I do know that if I hire a Kennesaw State grad, I won’t likely be dealing with a toxic combination of ignorance, arrogance, and entitlement.

These Harvard students - despite their incapacity for college-level work - will likely graduate with straight-A grades, since that is pretty much the only grade that Harvard gives out.

But back to The Crimson’s article about remedial math tutoring at Harvard…

“The last two years, we saw students who were in Math MA and faced a challenge that was unreasonable given the supports we had in the course. So we wanted to think about, ‘How can we create a course that really helps students step up to their aspirations?’” he said.

“…step up to their aspirations”?? How can we protect the rest of us from credentialed mediocrities being awarded Harvard degrees and imposing their “aspirations” on us?

With their Harvard degrees, these “prestigious Ivy League graduates” will likely be going into “public policy” positions, despite their inability to do the math that I was doing in 8th grade, and that used to be expected of most 9th graders. Therefore, it is reasonable to doubt their capacity to handle municipal budgets, or understand tax law, or comprehend the math required for bond issues, etc. There are abundant roles in the workplace for those who cannot handle high-school level math, but elite-level policy positions should be out of their reach. A “participation trophy” degree from Harvard doesn’t make them any smarter.

In addition, there are any number of community colleges that can help these students learn high school-level math – if they have the aptitude for it – but the fact that Harvard has such an abundance of unqualified admits that it must provide remedial math courses is a reminder of how meaningless a Harvard degree is.

To be safe, I am just going to assume that every Harvard enrollee is a special admit that is incapable of handling a college level curriculum without special hand-holding.

“Students don’t have the skills that we had intended downstream in the curriculum, and so it creates different trajectories in students’ math abilities,” Kelly added.

“Different trajectories in students’ math abilities…” Well done, Harvard! The word “remedial” has now officially been deemed offensive and forced through the euphemism treadmill, getting replaced by “different trajectory.”

He said the department “investigated a number of different strategies” used by different schools when assessing how to address students’ skill gaps.

Testing a student’s math proficiency – or “skill gap” - is actually quite simple. You give the student a math test at expected grade level. But our best and brightest at Ivy League universities are instead “investigating a number of different strategies used by different schools.” Harvard is beyond parody.

It’s not my intent to mock those whose education suffered during the imposition of Covid sharia. (My intent is to mock Harvard.) The school closures and the refusal of so many teachers across the country to do their jobs during that social panic certainly had a negative impact on many students who did want to learn. There are many avenues for those students to still obtain high school level math skills and move forward with their educations. But if Harvard is doing the work of community colleges, then Harvard deserves to be mocked.

[buck.throckmorton at protonmail dot com]

Posted by: Buck Throckmorton at 11:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 1

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at March 28, 2025 11:01 AM (aPBRN)

2 I taught a 300 level economics course in grad school.

Mostly they could actually do math, but their ability to compose answers to short answer questions was frighteningly bad.

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at March 28, 2025 11:03 AM (aPBRN)

3 Grade inflation is totally not a thing.

Also, we have to teach Harvard freshman how to use the x symbol in algebra.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to the finish with Corman at March 28, 2025 11:03 AM (GBKbO)

4 Even Jethro Bodine knew a goodly amount of cipherin'.

Posted by: Bug Tussle Bill at March 28, 2025 11:04 AM (G5+As)

5 I was told there would he no math.

Posted by: tankdemon at March 28, 2025 11:04 AM (zcch1)

6 5 I was told there would he no math.
Posted by: tankdemon at March 28, 2025 11:04 AM (zcch1)

=====

Well, the be fair, Harvard is a Divinity College.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to the finish with Corman at March 28, 2025 11:04 AM (GBKbO)

7 Jeebus, you could go to any Community College and get all the Algebra you want for maybe a grand or two.

Posted by: Pudinhead at March 28, 2025 11:05 AM (Hpgos)

8 7 Jeebus, you could go to any Community College and get all the Algebra you want for maybe a grand or two.
Posted by: Pudinhead at March 28, 2025 11:05 AM (Hpgos)

=====

Youtube videos.

For free.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to the finish with Corman at March 28, 2025 11:05 AM (GBKbO)

9 I can't do math either...

Posted by: Martini Farmer at March 28, 2025 11:05 AM (Q4IgG)

10 1/3 for offspring of wealthy alum and/or donors. 1/3 for athletes and such, with the remaining 1/3 being merit admissions.

Yeah, I can see the potential need for remedial math.

Posted by: 2009Refugee at March 28, 2025 11:05 AM (u5fr9)

11 The Jethro Bodine School of Mathematics and Cipherin' at Harvard University.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at March 28, 2025 11:05 AM (gm9Sb)

12 4 11 Horde think

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at March 28, 2025 11:06 AM (gm9Sb)

13 Miss State has an entire department that replays the High School years.

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:08 AM (gbOdA)

14 Actually, “students who don’t belong at Harvard” isn’t really fair, because whatever Harvard might have once been, there is nothing “elite” about those who get admitted to Harvard any longer - neither intellectually nor in character. With a student body heavily composed of privileged nepots whose parents purchased their enrollment, affirmative action admits, and Jew-hating foreigners, Harvard is more odious than elite these days.

That's too much. The students at Harvard are, for the most part, highly "elite", when elite is a measure of academic prowess, as reflected in SAT/ACT scores, and demonstrated ability to conduct independent research.

A more relevant question is what is the correlation between students admitted with far below the normal performance measures and remedial math. I think we all know the answer.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:08 AM (xCA6C)

15 4 11 Horde think

Posted by: bill in arkansas

===

For extra credit, how did Jethro decide his answer on multiple choice questions?

Posted by: 2009Refugee at March 28, 2025 11:08 AM (u5fr9)

16 I was told there would he no math.

A district court judge has just ruled that there will be no math.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 28, 2025 11:08 AM (2ocoG)

17 11 The Jethro Bodine School of Mathematics and Cipherin' at Harvard University.
Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at March 28, 2025 11:05 AM (gm9Sb)

Brain Surgery and Fry Cook School is accepting applications.

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:09 AM (gbOdA)

18 And what of the no math rule?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at March 28, 2025 11:09 AM (Sxyn8)

19 That even a penny of my tax dollars go to Harvard or any University with Billion dollar endowments is straight up theft.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 11:10 AM (VofaG)

20 Buck,

A lot of those students lack basic reading skills as well at the Ivies.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:10 AM (ctrM5)

21 I used to be embarrassed by my short "get the VA check" time at Youngstown State University (Go Penguins).

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at March 28, 2025 11:11 AM (gm9Sb)

22 The average math SAT score at Harvard is 790. There is no way you need remedial math with that score. There's more to the story here.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:11 AM (xCA6C)

23 Only maybe 10% of Harvard students actually belong there. The rest are DEI gimps, legacies, and rich kids who's daddy wrote a very big check.

Remember the scene from Back to School where Dangerfield's character Thornton Mellon makes a huge donation for a new business school so he can be admitted as a student? The snooty Econ professor objects. The Dean responds: "In Mr. Melon's defense, it was a really big check."

Posted by: Elric Blade at March 28, 2025 11:11 AM (iFTx/)

24 A more relevant question is what is the correlation between students admitted with far below the normal performance measures and remedial math. I think we all know the answer.
Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:08 AM (xCA6C)

2024 SAT Mean Score and Standard Deviation
1024 229
The average SAT score composite at Harvard is a 1550.
That means Harvard must be taking students of more than 2 SDs off and most likely below the mean.

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:13 AM (gbOdA)

25 I had a girlfriend who didn't know what 1/x was for on a calculator. Even after explaining it, she didn't get it. But I'd expect Harvard students to understand that.

Posted by: Angzarr the Cromulent at March 28, 2025 11:14 AM (y2f7I)

26 Only maybe 10% of Harvard students actually belong there. The rest are DEI gimps, legacies, and rich kids who's daddy wrote a very big check.

It's unclear if Harvard offers any kind of a useful education now. Going there is strictly elite credentialism now, and like a lot of people in the real world I assume the worst when I see resumes from any Ivy League school.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 28, 2025 11:14 AM (2ocoG)

27 After seeing the results of an ivy education, my policy is to place any resume with one of them listed as education into the round file.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at March 28, 2025 11:14 AM (lTGtQ)

28 Nobody fails at Harvard
they graduate 98%

Posted by: MAC V SOG at March 28, 2025 11:14 AM (P4Pk9)

29 The main issue is the quality level of the teachers.

I am an Engineer. My son was having issues with Algebra in HS and I went to see the teacher. I asked her to explain what he was having difficulty with. She began by paging through her textbook and reciting it. It was clear she had no idea what she was reading about. I asked her a basic question abut the Quadratic Equation. She was utterly confused. I asked her what her training consisted of. She said she had a Masters Degree. When I inquired in what area she said: Education. She told me when asked that she was not required to take any math classes in either HS or College. I don't know who thought she could teach students basic Algebra. I tutored my son and he went on to become an Electrical Engineer. Way smarter then me!

Want to improve Math skills? Educate the teachers and require them to become competent in the subjects they are teaching. Education is a pointless degree to teach STEM subjects.

Posted by: Alfred at March 28, 2025 11:14 AM (b6c/x)

30 2024 SAT Mean Score and Standard Deviation
1024 229
The average SAT score composite at Harvard is a 1550.
That means Harvard must be taking students of more than 2 SDs off and most likely below the mean.

That is the unspoken message. What is the common factor or factors among that subset?

Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:14 AM (xCA6C)

31 Many many (many…sigh) years ago I arrived at state university as an engineering major. Had to take an entrance exam; my result was appalling. Counselor said: You really need to pick another major.

Me (being the ultimate in stubborn) said no way. I stayed in engineering, studied a lot and eventually graduated with a very good GPA (close to 4.0) and went on to earn a PhD in engineering. Moral of the story; Your knowledge level as you enter college probably isn’t that important.

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at March 28, 2025 11:15 AM (6RwsA)

32 Nobody fails at Harvard
they graduate 98%

The admissions process is the filter. After that, it's assumed you're capable.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:15 AM (xCA6C)

33 My good friend's son just got a rejection letter from Rice but the next day got accepted into Texas A&M''s select Business School that only accepts 200 students.

I have a feeling Rice had reached their Asian quota (the son is half Korean with Korean last name)

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 11:16 AM (VofaG)

34 22 The average math SAT score at Harvard is 790. There is no way you need remedial math with that score. There's more to the story here.
Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:11 AM (xCA6C)

UCLA has destroyed their med school.
50% (thats half for you Harvard grads) cannot pass the first 3 shelf tests (core medical knowledge).

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:16 AM (gbOdA)

35 WTF. The ballz on Hillary Clinton, bathroom server, deleted emails. Wow. It's a wonder Bill hasn't drunk himself to death. I cannot imagine what it must be like to live with that bitter bitter ....

Posted by: Simplemind at March 28, 2025 11:16 AM (xF2CU)

36 16 I was told there would he no math.

A district court judge has just ruled that there will be no math.
Posted by: Ian S.

There is a quite amusing dissent video made by a 9th Circuit judge in a case involving firearm regulations in California I think. He shows how to manipulate a firearm and why the majority ruling on the case demonstrated absolutely no idea of even simple facts of firearm function. Yet they felt quite competent to rule on it. Lefties are enraged over it along with the gun grabber crowd. Pissed off his 9th circuit asshole hacks in black too.

I award that judge kudos for demonstrating that our elites are not actually elites and our meritocracy is not actually such either. They bear a striking resemblance to the decayed and corrupt aristocracies seen before regime change.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:16 AM (ctrM5)

37
UCLA has destroyed their med school.
50% (thats half for you Harvard grads) cannot pass the first 3 shelf tests (core medical knowledge).

My guess is that they had to deemphasize the tests to allow the uncompetitive students to pass, and since they tests no longer counted for much, the others also stopped worrying about them.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:17 AM (xCA6C)

38 35 WTF. The ballz on Hillary Clinton, bathroom server, deleted emails. Wow. It's a wonder Bill hasn't drunk himself to death. I cannot imagine what it must be like to live with that bitter bitter ....
Posted by: Simplemind
========
Bill's drug of choice is pussy and he is not particular about where he gets it.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:17 AM (ctrM5)

39 I can’t help but believe that “affirmative action” and its demon spawn Didn’t Earn It, are hard core leftist plots to screw everything up. By intent, by design.

The cultural marxists cannot allow the proper functioning and good order of their pet constituencies nor can the myriad gatekeepers and grifters who profit off of dysfunctional systems let it go either. Too much money - federal money involved.

So we get the worst examples of the “Black Community” as avatars and role models. Instead of Dr. Ben Carson, it’s Jasmine Crock-o-Shit. Keepin’ it real, Yo.

Posted by: Common Tater at March 28, 2025 11:17 AM (gIVe3)

40 I tested out of ("proficiencied") eight hours of college calculus, but I could not do any calculus now. I'd probably struggle with most algebra as well. Use it or lose it, they say.

But yeah, the youngsters of DEI and IDC (I don't care) need to be held to higher standards, and learn to love America the Beautiful (as founded).

Posted by: illiniwek at March 28, 2025 11:18 AM (Cus5s)

41 To be fair, it's hard to learn teh mathz when you have to spend so much time hobnobbing with other rich and famous tweeners. That yacht ain't gonna sail itself through the south of France IYKWIMAITYD

Posted by: Schleprock at March 28, 2025 11:18 AM (DJw6W)

42
I think this is more a reflection of the state of education in grades 1-12.

Same for language skills. I think every college in the nation requires freshmen to take a course in writing paragraphs and essays, which they should have learned in high school.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at March 28, 2025 11:18 AM (LV4Hs)

43 It's funny because so many private "for profit" schools have been sued into oblivion due to accepting sub par students.
Kamala did a little of that as AG of CA.
Didn't Trump try to open a for profit university?

Posted by: Reforger, successful survivalist... so far. at March 28, 2025 11:18 AM (xcIvR)

44 Nobody fails at Harvard
they graduate 98%

The admissions process is the filter. After that, it's assumed you're capable.
Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:15 AM (xCA6C)

If I had to guess I would say at least 10% of the admissions are DEI.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 11:18 AM (VofaG)

45 Blame No Child Left Behind.

Posted by: jmel at March 28, 2025 11:18 AM (RWHIh)

46 Obviously the problem is underfunded schools.

Posted by: Oglebay at March 28, 2025 11:19 AM (2ap+5)

47 Me (being the ultimate in stubborn) said no way. I stayed in engineering, studied a lot and eventually graduated with a very good GPA (close to 4.0) and went on to earn a PhD in engineering. Moral of the story; Your knowledge level as you enter college probably isn’t that important.
Posted by: LinusVanPelt
-------
Not everyone has your drive. That includes grad school as a lot of people fail to get their Phd.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:19 AM (ctrM5)

48 That is the unspoken message. What is the common factor or factors among that subset?

We looked, and looked, and couldn't find anything.

Posted by: The Harvard Admissions Department! at March 28, 2025 11:19 AM (xTIDn)

49 I decided Harvard law was worthless during Barky's reign. If he had not been elected I wouldn't have known since I don't interact with lawyers. If the law school sold out, one wonders if Harvard medical school should also be considered a negative rather than a positive when selecting a doctor.

Posted by: PaleRider at March 28, 2025 11:19 AM (CKOCg)

50 Obviously the problem is underfunded schools.
Posted by: Oglebay at March 28, 2025 11:19 AM

Teachers are the real heros.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 28, 2025 11:20 AM (jc0TO)

51 The 5-day remedial math class will meet Monday-Wednesday next week.

/Remedial Math Professor

(wait for it)

Posted by: muldoon at March 28, 2025 11:20 AM (/iMjX)

52 That is the unspoken message. What is the common factor or factors among that subset?
Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:14 AM (xCA6C)

NYU leaked data 2024
Asian 1490
Whites 1430
Hispanic 1355
Black 1280

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:20 AM (gbOdA)

53 “…step up to their aspirations”?? How can we protect the rest of us from credentialed mediocrities being awarded Harvard degrees and imposing their “aspirations” on us?

This is a great line. One quibble though; I think it's ultimately the professoriate/administrators imposing their aspirations on us using the students as the vessel. Much clunkier than your bon mot though.

Posted by: Dr. Fausti - I WAS The Science at March 28, 2025 11:20 AM (lg881)

54 When's the last time any of you did Algebra?

Posted by: Pudinhead at March 28, 2025 11:20 AM (Hpgos)

55 51 The 5-day remedial math class will meet Monday-Wednesday next week.

/Remedial Math Professor

(wait for it)
Posted by: muldoon at March 28, 2025 11:20 AM (/iMjX)

Monday Tuesday Thursday Wednesday

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:21 AM (gbOdA)

56 Learning math is 'acting white'.

Anyway I don't care if Harvard students can't do math. I care that math is crucial in a lot of the trades if not all of them to some degree.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 11:21 AM (VofaG)

57 I'm listening to that Lutnick interview on All In. He sounds like Al Pacino, but without all the exaggeration.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at March 28, 2025 11:21 AM (BI5O2)

58 Thx Buck.

David Hogg to the courtesy phone . Your refresher course is open

Posted by: Smell the Glove at March 28, 2025 11:21 AM (SZaJX)

59 DEI rears its ugly, diseased, tatted and pierced head to devour on the remains of a once great institution.

That's the Left winning, I guess.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at March 28, 2025 11:21 AM (Dv3i1)

60 51 There will be special tutoring for three finger Charlie after the tragic lawn mower accident.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at March 28, 2025 11:21 AM (gm9Sb)

61 I was spending all my time drinking and taking drugs Fortunately I came to my senses when I reached middle school.

Posted by: Oglebay at March 28, 2025 11:22 AM (2ap+5)

62 I have a feeling Rice had reached their Asian quota (the son is half Korean with Korean last name)
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth

Can you even get good Korean food at 2AM at A&M?

Posted by: Kimchi Stew at March 28, 2025 11:22 AM (G5+As)

63 I agree with Linus. I sucked sucked sucked at math 5 years ago when I was 51. At 56, although I'm no Rajahamanahanan or the much easier to spell Erdos, I have improved more than I could have believed. These days I can calculate a decent estimate of the count of prime numbers up to a given x in my head.

The standard estimate is x/ln x. But you can convert logs of one base to another base making the calculation easier. When I started, I couldn't add and subtract fractions, and also I had no confidence I could learn math.

I have to thank Glenn Reynolds for turning me on to Barbara Oakley. She made me a believer that pretty much anyone can learn anything.

Oh, what was the post about?

Posted by: Van Helsing at March 28, 2025 11:22 AM (N462N)

64 When's the last time any of you did Algebra?
Posted by: Pudinhead

I had to do some at my last job to figure out a couple of confusing invoices from law firms.

Posted by: Bulg at March 28, 2025 11:22 AM (77rzZ)

65 My guess is that they had to deemphasize the tests to allow the uncompetitive students to pass, and since they tests no longer counted for much, the others also stopped worrying about them.
Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:17 AM (xCA6C)

I believe you HAVE to pass these test to get a residency.

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:23 AM (gbOdA)

66 When I was in advanced english in high school, several times I was given a subject and told to write a three page paper arguing one side or the other, and the one hour of class time to write it and turn it in. I don't think many students are challenged like that today.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at March 28, 2025 11:24 AM (lTGtQ)

67 You wouldn't think Harvard and its ilk would need to have remedial courses, but hey...

The community colleges (and probably most of the state colleges) have offered remedial for a long time. A student graduating from high school should be able to handle regular first year math (and reading and writing); remedial is basically a do-over of stuff they should have picked up in high school. I don't look for any of this to change until a college can bill the high schools in question for all expenses necessary to bring their students up to speed (yeah, hell, snowballs, etc.)

Posted by: Just Some Guy at March 28, 2025 11:24 AM (q3u5l)

68 I was an actuary and the number of times it was necessary to understand elementary calculus to do my job was probably zero.

Posted by: Oglebay at March 28, 2025 11:24 AM (2ap+5)

69 one wonders if Harvard medical school should also be considered a negative rather than a positive when selecting a doctor.
===
The real issue is where they did their post med school training. Those doctors that trained or rotated through the county hospital, and or the VA, got more hands on and a better look at a wide variety of patients, circumstances than those that trained solely at high dollar hospitals.

Posted by: Just my opinion no data in support at March 28, 2025 11:24 AM (xF2CU)

70 50% (thats half for you Harvard grads) cannot pass the first 3 shelf tests (core medical knowledge).
_________

No! Hypocalimia, not medibolic acidosis. Duh!

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at March 28, 2025 11:24 AM (Dm8we)

71 That is the unspoken message. What is the common factor or factors among that subset?
Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:14 AM (xCA6C)

NYU leaked data 2024
Asian 1490
Whites 1430
Hispanic 1355
Black 1280
Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:20 AM (gbOdA)
________

I highly doubt these numbers. They are almost certainly overall lower than this, plus a bigger disparity between Asian and black. I'd bet any amount of money the black students are 99% leftwing DEI garbage. The smart blacks don't come from DEI backgrounds and thus are probably also mostly excluded from entry.

Posted by: Elric Blade at March 28, 2025 11:24 AM (iFTx/)

72 Want to improve Math skills? Educate the teachers and require them to become competent in the subjects they are teaching. Education is a pointless degree to teach STEM subjects.

Posted by: Alfred

Everyone agrees that is true but retaining Math and Science teachers has always been a reach because they can often make more money with less hassle by taking other jobs that pay better or have less annoyances that teachers do.

In addition, those teachers with high stds in Math or Science eventually get driven out of the profession by administrators and their own fellow teachers.

Administrators all but order those teachers to lower standards because they get complaints and the students don't "graduate." To administrators, the process is the goal, not knowledge.

For fellow teachers, many of them ostracize those that can actually apply high standards and students resent them.

So, to have warm bodies required to teach students, they bring in people with ed degrees rather than subject knowledge and the problem is worse as you go to middle/junior high level.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:25 AM (ctrM5)

73 When's the last time any of you did Algebra?
Posted by: Pudinhead

I mostly use it for conversion of one size to another.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 11:25 AM (VofaG)

74
Anyway, Harvard's name is on the landmark Supreme Court decisions that ends DEI admissions. The lawyer who argued for the plaintiffs has said he's watching Harvard like a hawk to make sure they don't cheat with workarounds. So what is Harvard up to? Do they want to be the next to lose federal support?

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at March 28, 2025 11:25 AM (LV4Hs)

75 Want to improve Math skills? Educate the teachers and require them to become competent in the subjects they are teaching. Education is a pointless degree to teach STEM subjects.

That might involve hiring male teachers, which is only allowed if they're extremely gay.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 28, 2025 11:25 AM (2ocoG)

76 I highly doubt these numbers. They are almost certainly overall lower than this, plus a bigger disparity between Asian and black. I'd bet any amount of money the black students are 99% leftwing DEI garbage. The smart blacks don't come from DEI backgrounds and thus are probably also mostly excluded from entry.
Posted by: Elric Blade at March 28, 2025 11:24 AM (iFTx/)

Here the link
https://nyunews.com/news/2025/03/22/
nyu-website-hacked-data-leak/

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:26 AM (gbOdA)

77 I had to complete calculus in high school before MIT would even deign to look at my application.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at March 28, 2025 11:26 AM (ufFY8)

78 Any truth the rumors that the reason Stevens was in Libya was to try and retrieve Stinger missiles issued by the State Department? Oops. It’s quite a story.

Mrs. Clinton clearly failed to safeguard state secrets while conducting official business. Had nothing to do with emails. And also a novel interpretation of “Intent”. And never mind how all that ultra top secret stuff ended up on the internet, when … the materials were so highly classified they were stored on computers specifically that are never, ever, ever connected to the internet in the first place.

Comey sure looked awkward in the “press conference”. Somebody forced his hand on that, he had to get out there for some reason. Very sad spectacle.

Posted by: Common Tater at March 28, 2025 11:26 AM (K8xY1)

79 You use algebra all the time, you just do not realize it.

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at March 28, 2025 11:26 AM (/x6eu)

80 I highly doubt these numbers. They are almost certainly overall lower than this, plus a bigger disparity between Asian and black. I'd bet any amount of money the black students are 99% leftwing DEI garbage. The smart blacks don't come from DEI backgrounds and thus are probably also mostly excluded from entry.
Posted by: Elric Blade at March 28, 2025 11:24 AM (iFTx/)

Here the link
https://nyunews.com/news/2025/03/22/
nyu-website-hacked-data-leak/
Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:26 AM (gbOdA)
______

I don't doubt the numbers were reported. I doubt the actual numbers are the same as the reported numbers.

Posted by: Elric Blade at March 28, 2025 11:27 AM (iFTx/)

81 Trigonometry and Calc are where the more specific applications come in, imo.

Maybe algebra 2.

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at March 28, 2025 11:27 AM (/x6eu)

82 You use algebra all the time, you just do not realize it.
Posted by: Aetius451AD

How so?

Posted by: Bulg at March 28, 2025 11:27 AM (77rzZ)

83 50% (thats half for you Harvard grads) cannot pass the first 3 shelf tests (core medical knowledge).

Ace also has problems with shelf tests.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 28, 2025 11:27 AM (2ocoG)

84 Anyway, Harvard's name is on the landmark Supreme Court decisions that ends DEI admissions. The lawyer who argued for the plaintiffs has said he's watching Harvard like a hawk to make sure they don't cheat with workarounds. So what is Harvard up to? Do they want to be the next to lose federal support?

Unfortunately, Roberts left a hole big enough to drive a truck through, when he said words to the effect that one could talk about overcoming obstacles, without explicitly mentioning race.

noodge noodge wink wink say no more...

Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:28 AM (xCA6C)

85 probably zero.
Posted by: Oglebay at March 28, 2025 11:24 AM (2ap+5)

ISWYDT

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 28, 2025 11:28 AM (VoAdT)

86 Conversion factor!

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at March 28, 2025 11:28 AM (/x6eu)

87 The two most difficult subjects I ever studied were calculus and Mandarin Chinese.

Posted by: Bulg at March 28, 2025 11:28 AM (77rzZ)

88 Administrators all but order those teachers to lower standards because they get complaints and the students don't "graduate." To administrators, the process is the goal, not knowledge.

For fellow teachers, many of them ostracize those that can actually apply high standards and students resent them.

So, to have warm bodies required to teach students, they bring in people with ed degrees rather than subject knowledge and the problem is worse as you go to middle/junior high level.
Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:25 AM (ctrM5)

I knew in 1980 81 when the Ed Dept as part of the College of Liberal Arts separated from that and became the College of Ed that Education was a scam.
This was at UTexas.

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:29 AM (gbOdA)

89 So Harvard joined the SEC?

Posted by: brak at March 28, 2025 11:29 AM (+HGb3)

90 Geometry is the only math that provides a continuing series of surprising insights.

Posted by: Oglebay at March 28, 2025 11:29 AM (2ap+5)

91 49 I decided Harvard law was worthless during Barky's reign. If he had not been elected I wouldn't have known since I don't interact with lawyers. If the law school sold out, one wonders if Harvard medical school should also be considered a negative rather than a positive when selecting a doctor.
Posted by: PaleRider

Age of degree from Harvard. In my area, I have a fair amount of old Jewish doctors from premier institutions and every one of them has been good.

Affirmative action docs and foreign fill in types, not so good as in recommend unneeded and harmful surgery bad or ignoring a condition in the first place.

White docs from meh places--you have to pay close attention to their reviews and where they went to school.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:29 AM (ctrM5)

92 The two most difficult subjects I ever studied were calculus and Mandarin Chinese.

Mine were Amy and Louise.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:30 AM (xCA6C)

93 Harvard remedial math test question.

If you have 10 Jewish students eating in the Square, How many Free Palestine protestors needed to surround each infidel with five protesters?

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 11:30 AM (VofaG)

94 I have never used algebra or calculus in the real world. Frankly, I cannot recall the last time long division was required. That said it is worth while to learn it. For the sake of the discipline required. What we lack, sorely, is not so much math majors, but self disciplined young adults who are interested in the tangible world beyond the "screen".

Posted by: Just my opinion no data in support at March 28, 2025 11:30 AM (xF2CU)

95 How so?
Posted by: Bulg at March 28, 2025 11:27 AM (77rzZ)

You had $50 in your wallet. Now you have $30. How much did your girlfriend sneak?

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at March 28, 2025 11:31 AM (/x6eu)

96 Wright State has remedial classes for students who sucked at math & reading before they got to university. I imagine their offering of such classes has expanded since 2020. But m alma mater & other state & junior universities are dedicated to making workers out of everyone who attends, regardless of their background or income level. I, and many others, expect more from Harvard & the other Ivy League schools. If the Ivy League is no longer the Ivy League, then the USA is having some real trouble.

Posted by: exdem13 FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT at March 28, 2025 11:31 AM (XjTSo)

97 Geometry is the only math that provides a continuing series of surprising insights.
Posted by: Oglebay

I loved geometry in high school. Especially doing proofs. It was very logical and you could actually see the shapes you were working, which made it more concrete than most other branches of mathematics.

Posted by: Bulg at March 28, 2025 11:31 AM (77rzZ)

98 The real issue is where they did their post med school training. Those doctors that trained or rotated through the county hospital, and or the VA, got more hands on and a better look at a wide variety of patients, circumstances than those that trained solely at high dollar hospitals.
Posted by: Just my opinion no data in support at March 28, 2025 11:24 AM (xF2CU)

Lupus reigns at the VA.

Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at March 28, 2025 11:31 AM (g8Ew8)

99 So Harvard joined the SEC?

Harvard has zero SEC championships and finances their waterbeds.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 28, 2025 11:31 AM (2ocoG)

100 Calculus came naturally to me.

European History was the one that stymied me.

"So basically everyone was a violent dumbass and then yadda yadda Beatles?"

"Reeeeee!"

Still passed, tho.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 28, 2025 11:31 AM (VoAdT)

101 Irony - i took calculus and astrophysics at Harvard in high school between 11th and 12th grade. I should have taken easier courses and spent more time at T T the Bear's. :->

Posted by: SFGoth at March 28, 2025 11:31 AM (aDQvY)

102 Harvard Math:

1 Fish
2 Fish
White man evil
Kill the Jews

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at March 28, 2025 11:31 AM (1ZMgJ)

103 Harvard remedial math test question.

If you have 10 Jewish students eating in the Square, How many Free Palestine protestors needed to surround each infidel with five protesters?
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 11:30 AM (VofaG)
_____

Answer: Just one. The smell takes care of the rest.

Posted by: Elric Blade at March 28, 2025 11:31 AM (iFTx/)

104
The smart blacks don't come from DEI backgrounds and thus are probably also mostly excluded from entry.
Posted by: Elric Blade

==============

I disagree. I think an outstanding Black student will be recruited so hard they'll feel harassed.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at March 28, 2025 11:32 AM (LV4Hs)

105 For extra credit, how did Jethro decide his answer on multiple choice questions?
Posted by: 2009Refugee at March 28, 2025 11:08 AM (u5fr9)

He picked the one with the biggest boobs?

Posted by: anchorbabe fashion cop at March 28, 2025 11:32 AM (ufFY8)

106 You had $50 in your wallet. Now you have $30. How much did your girlfriend sneak?
Posted by: Aetius451AD

That's algebra? Sounds like a simple subtraction problem to me.

Posted by: Bulg at March 28, 2025 11:32 AM (77rzZ)

107 "So tell me Doc, where did you go to school?". "Well, I couldn't get into Harvard, and one day I picked up this matchbook. Next thing I knew I was in the Esquela Medico de Pablo Escobar in Nicaragua. They make a hell of a chicken sammich in the cafeteria".

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at March 28, 2025 11:32 AM (gm9Sb)

108 I knew in 1980 81 when the Ed Dept as part of the College of Liberal Arts separated from that and became the College of Ed that Education was a scam.
This was at UTexas.
Posted by: rhennigantx
=======
Colleges have less of a problem but junior high/middle school and high school need to retain their science and math instructors by paying them more which will totally piss off those teaching other fields as well.

Instead, far too many K-12 schools focus on sports to the extent that they ignore basic core education of students. Coaches are often the ones running the school and recruiting teachers based on coaching than teaching subjects.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:32 AM (ctrM5)

109 This has been going on for a long time with "affletes". My wife's roommate at a State University in NY 50 years ago was a Math major. She tutored the entire basketball team. They mostly didn't mind because she was also Miss New York State. Leggy lass, fine pins, as the Daily Mail might opine.

Posted by: School Daze at March 28, 2025 11:33 AM (G5+As)

110 94 I have never used algebra or calculus in the real world. Frankly, I cannot recall the last time long division was required. That said it is worth while to learn it. For the sake of the discipline required. What we lack, sorely, is not so much math majors, but self disciplined young adults who are interested in the tangible world beyond the "screen".
---------------
This is why Accounting should be taught throughout Jr and Sr HS. Over and over, again. Name a career that doesn't include accounting.

Posted by: Pudinhead at March 28, 2025 11:33 AM (Hpgos)

111 You had $50 in your wallet. Now you have $30. How much did your girlfriend sneak?
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at March 28, 2025 11:31 AM (/x6eu)

$0, for all values of "i wanna get a leg over tonight".

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 28, 2025 11:33 AM (VoAdT)

112 ...helps students step up to their aspirations?

*********

WebMD: "Aspiration is when something you swallow enters your airway or lungs. It can cause infections, breathing problems, and other complications."

So Harvard is going to teach applicannts who are too dumb to breathe how to inhale their own saliva? Seems counterproductive.

Posted by: muldoon at March 28, 2025 11:33 AM (/iMjX)

113 I disagree. I think an outstanding Black student will be recruited so hard they'll feel harassed.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia

You are correct. One of the biggest criticisms of AA is that it benefits wealthy blacks at the expense of poor whites. Many of those admitted to selective institutions are West Indian or other non-natives.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:33 AM (xCA6C)

114 That's algebra? Sounds like a simple subtraction problem to me.
Posted by: Bulg at March 28, 2025 11:32 AM (77rzZ)

Algebra is finding the unknown (or uncountable) by taking what you do know and figuring it out.

It all is simple arithmetic, you just have to put it in the right form to solve.

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at March 28, 2025 11:33 AM (/x6eu)

115 Unfortunately, Roberts left a hole big enough to drive a truck through, when he said words to the effect that one could talk about overcoming obstacles, without explicitly mentioning race.

noodge noodge wink wink say no more...
Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:28 AM (xCA6C)

Totally OT and weird that this triggered the thought but what happened to Robert our Truck driver? Does he still post?

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 11:33 AM (VofaG)

116 I was an actuary and the number of times it was necessary to understand elementary calculus to do my job was probably zero.
Posted by: Oglebay at March 28, 2025

***
I made use of knowledge from my statistics classes about once. In composing a report, I needed to present the standard deviation of a group of grades. Excel has the function, but there are two -- one for population and one for a sample. Because I;d had stats, I knew which one to pick.

The class was recent to me then, so I did the math on my calculator. It checked with Excel's answer.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at March 28, 2025 11:34 AM (J2vNu)

117 I can’t help but believe that “affirmative action” and its demon spawn Didn’t Earn It, are hard core leftist plots to screw everything up. By intent, by design.

Oh, absolutely.

You have the Congress pass the Civil Rights Act, which forbids discrimination on the basis if race and sex (and other categories).

And then you have "Affirmative Action" put into place which requires discrimination on the basis of race and sex.

Which means that Affirmative Action was put in place to gut the Civil Rights Act.

Posted by: FeatherBlade at March 28, 2025 11:34 AM (hB7mE)

118 50% (thats half for you Harvard grads) cannot pass the first 3 shelf tests (core medical knowledge).
Posted by: rhennigantx

Ace can't pass a shelf test either.

Posted by: SFGoth at March 28, 2025 11:34 AM (aDQvY)

119 81 Trigonometry and Calc are where the more specific applications come in, imo.

Maybe algebra 2.
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at March 28, 2025 11:27 AM (/x6eu)

I occasionally try to use Pythagoreans Theory in my head.
3 4 5
5 12 13

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:34 AM (gbOdA)

120 If the Ivy League is no longer the Ivy League, then the USA is having some real trouble.

Posted by: exdem13

====

Hillary's spawn was not going to get a rejection letter from an Ivy. And the Ivy alums want the best sportsball teams they can credibly field.

If the belief is that every student at an Ivy was, or is, a 10 Lb brain, that's just not realistic.

Posted by: 2009Refugee at March 28, 2025 11:35 AM (u5fr9)

121
Also, we have to teach Harvard freshman how to use the x symbol in algebra.

Latin x

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 28, 2025 11:35 AM (63Dwl)

122 97 Geometry is the only math that provides a continuing series of surprising insights.
Posted by: Oglebay

I loved geometry in high school. Especially doing proofs. It was very logical and you could actually see the shapes you were working, which made it more concrete than most other branches of mathematics.
Posted by: Bulg at March 28, 2025 11:31 AM (77rzZ)

+++++

There was a kid in my HS geometry class named Joe Rock who never did his homework. My teacher, Wayne Ogilbee, would call him to the chalkboard to outline the most difficult proofs. Joe would go to the board with nothing but the textbook and, talking to himself all the while, write a perfect proof on the board.

Posted by: Oglebay at March 28, 2025 11:35 AM (2ap+5)

123 I believe you HAVE to pass these test to get a residency.

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:23 AM (gbOdA)

Not anymore!

- The American Medical Association, soon.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, still gloating at March 28, 2025 11:35 AM (OuB2L)

124 Instead, far too many K-12 schools focus on sports to the extent that they ignore basic core education of students. Coaches are often the ones running the school and recruiting teachers based on coaching than teaching subjects.

In HS I had a World Civ teacher who was also a football coach. He kept talking about the "gantry". He meant the gentry. We were not kind to him when he was not around.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:36 AM (xCA6C)

125 My late brother was an attorney. He had a math minor as an undergrad. He learned all about present value, and would use it in his practice to determine how to calculate damages in lawsuits.

Posted by: Bulg at March 28, 2025 11:36 AM (77rzZ)

126 Everyone who says they never use math algebra or math beyond adding or subtracting aren't a handyman around the house and don't leave tips.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 11:37 AM (VofaG)

127 The 'landed gantry' were more serious.

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at March 28, 2025 11:37 AM (/x6eu)

128 I am math challenged. It is a mystifying dark art to me.

Posted by: Don Black. Message: Defeat Canada! at March 28, 2025 11:37 AM (AOsQT)

129 Coaches are often the ones running the school and recruiting teachers based on coaching than teaching subjects.
Posted by: whig

That would be because - according to what I've heard at least - some well-intentioned bureaucrat required that schools not merely hire a coach. They have to hire someone who teaches as well as coaches.

So schools hire a coach and tell him to teach a class as well.

Posted by: FeatherBlade at March 28, 2025 11:37 AM (hB7mE)

130 Algebra is finding the unknown (or uncountable) by taking what you do know and figuring it out.

It all is simple arithmetic, you just have to put it in the right form to solve.
-------------------
Just read Travis McGee novels.

Posted by: Pudinhead at March 28, 2025 11:37 AM (Hpgos)

131 The 'landed gantry' were more serious.

I heard they all work at SpaceX now.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:38 AM (xCA6C)

132 122 Mentioned here before, I wonder how an Amish kid, after the eighth grade cutoff in education, would measure up to say, a legacy ivy league sophomore in useful math.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at March 28, 2025 11:38 AM (gm9Sb)

133 Their is a lot of politics in the Poison Ivy League.

Posted by: Case at March 28, 2025 11:39 AM (OrSPY)

134 And then you have "Affirmative Action" put into place which requires discrimination on the basis of race and sex.

Which means that Affirmative Action was put in place to gut the Civil Rights Act.
Posted by: FeatherBlade
==========
Blame Nixon for instituting that one and Scotus for punting in Bakke case and then Grutter expanding the stupidity beyond those actually harmed by segregation into 'diversity'. Early Burger court was also to blame for its idiotic Griggs decision to gut testing for jobs which led to the more idiotic societal move to credentials rather than knowledge.

Coincidentally vastly increasing college attendance for the credential which in turn with diversity stds led to widespread incompetence in society where like Gump's box of chocolates, you had to pick out one at random to see what was in it.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:39 AM (ctrM5)

135 6 5 I was told there would he no math.
Posted by: tankdemon at March 28, 2025 11:04 AM (zcch1)

=====

Well, the be fair, Harvard is a Divinity College.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to the finish with Corman at March 28, 2025 11:04 AM (GBKbO)

A Divinity College whose current Dean of the Divinity School is an atheist.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at March 28, 2025 11:39 AM (H+y4v)

136 Mentioned here before, I wonder how an Amish kid, after the eighth grade cutoff in education, would measure up to say, a legacy ivy league sophomore in useful math.
Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at March 28, 2025 11:38 AM (gm9Sb)

Probably better. Barns don't raise themselves.

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at March 28, 2025 11:39 AM (/x6eu)

137 124
‘ He kept talking about the "gantry".’
Maybe he meant the gentry was hoisted up by the gantry crane of land ownership.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at March 28, 2025 11:40 AM (jbnUc)

138 Mentioned here before, I wonder how an Amish kid, after the eighth grade cutoff in education, would measure up to say, a legacy ivy league sophomore in useful math.
Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at March 28, 2025 11:38 AM (gm9Sb)

As much carpentry and building they do I say they would match up pretty well.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 11:40 AM (VofaG)

139
UCLA charged extra for remedial English when they introduced it. Students were ticked off about paying for a class on top of tuition, but UCLA said they should have known this stuff coming in. It's too bad the students who had to take it didn't turn around and sue their schools and school districts -- and stuck to it. It would have been a great precedent and maybe nipped the problem in the bud.

And we're reading about students suing now as they graduate from high school illiterate. I hope they succeed. I'd like to see a few teachers stammering through an explanation of why they gave the student a B when they couldn't read or write.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at March 28, 2025 11:40 AM (LV4Hs)

140 In my junior year high school I was talking first year calculus. In my senior year I was taking second year college calculus at the local junior college.

Sat in some calculus classes at the university and they were terrible. Glad I did the JC calculus courses. Also helped me get out of the university in four years.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable at March 28, 2025 11:40 AM (17s+e)

141 Harvard? That institution couldn't even teach its highest-profile graduate (arguably) how to pronounce 'Cuba.'

Posted by: one hour sober at March 28, 2025 11:40 AM (Y1sOo)

142 Let's point and laugh at the stupid Ivy League schools.

Also, let's be ruled by people who have exclusively gone to Ivy League schools.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 28, 2025 11:41 AM (dGCAG)

143 With a student body heavily composed of privileged nepots whose parents purchased their enrollment, affirmative action admits, and Jew-hating foreigners, Harvard is more odious than elite these days.

--------------

A microcosm of The Post-Modern West in general and America in particular.

At least they don't say "As goes California, so goes the nation."

Oh, wait ...

[BTW, there's a former Brit considering running for Governor there as an R named Steve Hilton (former British political advisor and host of "The Next Revolution," a weekly current affairs show for Fox News from 2017 to 2023) who's coming out with a book entitled "Califailure" (he could have stolen my "Califzuela" as well).

Recently heard him interviewed, and his argument for trying to save California was the analogy that "California is to America as America is to the rest of the world."]

Posted by: ShainS -- The Dissolution of The Autopen Empire at March 28, 2025 11:41 AM (V+K+8)

144 That would be because - according to what I've heard at least - some well-intentioned bureaucrat required that schools not merely hire a coach. They have to hire someone who teaches as well as coaches.

So schools hire a coach and tell him to teach a class as well.
Posted by: FeatherBlade
=========
Actuality. Plus there is a rather stupid idea that 'coaches' as administrators know how to discipline students and motivate them.

The mild advantage is that coaches may be a little less likely to go nuts over leftie ideology in practice than a pure educrat. Pure supposition on my part.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:41 AM (ctrM5)

145 Math was useful for law & economics, but more in an applied sense, and logic too.

Posted by: SFGoth at March 28, 2025 11:41 AM (aDQvY)

146 Geometry used to calculate the height of a 60-foot antenna at the house. Similar triangles plus the shadow on the ground.

Posted by: Normal women at March 28, 2025 11:41 AM (xTnJ1)

147 >> This is why Accounting should be taught throughout Jr and Sr HS. Over and over, again. Name a career that doesn't include accounting.

Politician?

Posted by: Disinterested FDA Director at March 28, 2025 11:42 AM (l3YAf)

148 Harvard? That institution couldn't even teach its highest-profile graduate (arguably) how to pronounce 'Cuba.'
Posted by: one hour sober

Or how not to call himself a jelly doughnut in German.

Posted by: Bulg at March 28, 2025 11:42 AM (77rzZ)

149 128 I am math challenged. It is a mystifying dark art to me.
Posted by: Don Black.

Good thing there are only 3 periods in hockey, not 9 innings like baseball, which is more than twice as many, I think.

Posted by: Illiterate, Innumerate, Sometimes Incontinent at March 28, 2025 11:42 AM (G5+As)

150 54 When's the last time any of you did Algebra?
Posted by: Pudinhead at March 28, 2025 11:20 AM (Hpgos)

I wish more people did algebra. We were settling up with the accountant at a venue who insisted that sales tax is calculated based on (price + tax amount)*(tax rate) rather than calculating it by (price * tax rate) to get the tax amount. Even though I calculated it for him and proved it was correct, he just insisted it didn't work that way.

The confusion stemmed from our policy of charging an even dollar amount for merchandise items and backing the sales tax out later. Much easier than calculating the local percentage for each purchase and dealing with pennies and nickels.

Posted by: Emmie at March 28, 2025 11:42 AM (Sf2cq)

151 As much carpentry and building they do I say they would match up pretty well.
-----------------
Yep.

Posted by: Pudinhead at March 28, 2025 11:42 AM (Hpgos)

152 BTW, there's a former Brit considering running for Governor there as an R named Steve Hilton (former British political advisor and host of "The Next Revolution," a weekly current affairs show for Fox News from 2017 to 2023) who's coming out with a book entitled "Califailure" (he could have stolen my "Califzuela" as well).

I saw that. If both he and Rick Grenell run, there might actually be a serious election in CA. Either one of them would eat Gavin N. alive.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:43 AM (xCA6C)

153 Mentioned here before, I wonder how an Amish kid, after the eighth grade cutoff in education, would measure up to say, a legacy ivy league sophomore in useful math.
Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at March 28, 2025 11:38 AM (gm9Sb)
—-

If you have seen what an eighth grade graduation test was like in the 30s you’d know we used to actually teach students.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable at March 28, 2025 11:43 AM (17s+e)

154 Well, the be fair, Harvard is a Divinity College.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to the finish with Corman at March 28, 2025 11:04 AM (GBKbO)

A Divinity College whose current Dean of the Divinity School is an atheist.
Posted by: Darrell Harris at March 28, 2025 11:39 AM (H+y4v)

Is that all? Not a one legged deaf lesbian or tranny black communist atheist?

Posted by: BurtTC at March 28, 2025 11:43 AM (dGCAG)

155
It's All About Embouchure

There once was a student named Suter
Took a remedial class for computer
Still he wasn't very smart
Couldn't learn how to fart
So he had to hire a personal tooter!

Posted by: muldoon at March 28, 2025 11:44 AM (/iMjX)

156 141 Heh. When my tribe arrived from the old country they first settled in MA. When Kennedy was in my Dad suddenly went full Brahmin Boston on the accent, but it really didn't fly mixed with the Finnish.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at March 28, 2025 11:44 AM (gm9Sb)

157 They have different trajectories that they can’t calculate because they are dumdums.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at March 28, 2025 11:44 AM (uC8xf)

158 The problem isn’t that college students (Harvard or not) need remedial high school math support, it’s that so many need elementary and junior high math support. School systems all over the country are passing students who cannot do grade level work in any discipline, much less college level.

The Houston school district was so bad the state took control of it. The parents are frequently featured on the evening news complaining bitterly about how they lost local control over their school system, but they never complained about their children not being taught anything. If the DOE is abolished, how will the school districts manage to fail their students’ education without federal oversight (/s)?

Posted by: Advo at March 28, 2025 11:44 AM (jO4mz)

159 Either one of them would eat Gavin N. alive.
Posted by: Archimedes
------
Gavin's out anyway for the election in 2026. Term limited. Rob Bonta, the AG is the frontrunner for the Dems unless Kamala gets in. Think Katie Porter is also running right now for it.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:44 AM (ctrM5)

160 Harvard students taking after their former plagiarism president -- taking the easy way out.

Posted by: Normal women at March 28, 2025 11:44 AM (xTnJ1)

161 I saw that. If both he and Rick Grenell run, there might actually be a serious election in CA. Either one of them would eat Gavin N. alive.
Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:43 AM (xCA6C)

More than enough foreign born among our "leaders". Grenell should kick his ass back home.

Posted by: Night lifted.... at March 28, 2025 11:45 AM (2NXcZ)

162 Adding exponents… usage of exponents in multiplcation in differential calculations…

Posted by: tubal at March 28, 2025 11:46 AM (PCK5/)

163 These Harvard students - despite their incapacity for college-level work - will likely graduate with straight-A grades, since that is pretty much the only grade that Harvard gives out.

------------

I've told this story before: as an undergrad at Stanford in the mid-80s, I was shocked to learn that you could take an entire course for the quarter, go sit and take the final exam ... and if you decided you were going to get a sucky grade, not turn it in (simply leave the room with it) -- and you were considered to have "dropped" the class.

Never taken it and no grade.

Posted by: ShainS -- The Dissolution of The Autopen Empire at March 28, 2025 11:46 AM (V+K+8)

164 Well, the be fair, Harvard is a Divinity College.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to the finish with Corman at March 28, 2025 11:04 AM (GBKbO)

A Divinity College whose current Dean of the Divinity School is an atheist.
Posted by: Darrell Harris at March 28, 2025 11:39
______

These people are convinced the physical universe is all that exists, so you'd think they'd at least emphasize learning the rules that govern it.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at March 28, 2025 11:46 AM (Dm8we)

165 Everyone agrees that is true but retaining Math and Science teachers has always been a reach because they can often make more money with less hassle by taking other jobs that pay better or have less annoyances that teachers do.

Lots of places pay a bonus for bi-lingual teachers who can speak the language of the invader's children that we're paying for. A serious country would pay a bonus for people with degrees in needed fields to teach those fields.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at March 28, 2025 11:47 AM (ExV1e)

166 They are going to dumb down a lot of new carpenters with the contour gauge cut tool. Though it is a fantastic time saver and cuts down on mistakes.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 11:47 AM (VofaG)

167 More than enough foreign born among our "leaders". Grenell should kick his ass back home.

I have no problem with that. Anyone smart enough to bail on GB and become American, as Hilton did, is okay with me.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:47 AM (xCA6C)

168 They bear a striking resemblance to the decayed and corrupt aristocracies seen before regime change.
Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:16 AM (ctrM5)

Agreed. The credentialed elite class types I know are almost uniformly idiots. Really changed my view on the world.

Not to mention the elites we all see on TV. I suppose it could be an act but I dont think so.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at March 28, 2025 11:48 AM (/eiep)

169 Students from Jay Leno's walking around asking questions. Sad

Posted by: Normal women at March 28, 2025 11:48 AM (pim0Q)

170 Elite credibility has been shit for a very long time. As rabble I have had zero point zero to do with it.

Not to mention Shitty College costs have increased faster than health care costs. Nobody says shit.

Posted by: Francis at March 28, 2025 11:48 AM (bbuBP)

171 They are going to dumb down a lot of new carpenters with the contour gauge cut tool. Though it is a fantastic time saver and cuts down on mistakes.

I didn't have to look that up at all.
*shifty eyes*

Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:48 AM (xCA6C)

172 166 Years since the last attempt, but if it helps with crown molding...

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at March 28, 2025 11:49 AM (gm9Sb)

173 I took Stats twice. First as an undergrad equipped with an expensive calculator then as a Master's using a computer. I scored A's in both but have never used it in my career. Operational testing comes with guys with 15lb brains who can spend hours arguing over what the Confidence Factor is and isn't in test design. Jeebus, I would just let the gits go on cuz I didn't give a fuck. Just give me a number of tests to qualify the equipment.

Posted by: Pudinhead at March 28, 2025 11:49 AM (Hpgos)

174 Gavin's out anyway for the election in 2026. Term limited. Rob Bonta, the AG is the frontrunner for the Dems unless Kamala gets in. Think Katie Porter is also running right now for it.
Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:44 AM (ctrM5)

That or back in the senate is the only way Kamala could retain enough national prominence for another shot at 2028. If she just sits idle for 4 years, she’ll have no platform other than reminding people she was VP from a terrible administration four years ago. Assuming anyone shows up with any political abilities, she’ll be a tough sell without something else to show.

Posted by: Advo at March 28, 2025 11:49 AM (jO4mz)

175 I tested out of a enginering modual on a work education multiple choice modual yesterday and I can't even spell it.

Posted by: Reforger at March 28, 2025 11:49 AM (xcIvR)

176 Fuggin A Bitches... Tee Hee

Under U.S. Law, No Trial Required: Violate Your Visa, Face Deportation
https://tinyurl.com/nhjfnsv8

Posted by: I'm Gumby Damn It! at March 28, 2025 11:49 AM (/ceBf)

177 Icame from solid Ozark roots… Arkansas and Missouri… my language/ accent strongly reflects that… my wife was born in California, raised by Pacific Coast and New England parents… our friends got around to asking “where are you from??” when we moved back to the Ozarks, many years ago… mixed marriage, it is😏

Posted by: tubal at March 28, 2025 11:50 AM (PCK5/)

178 The Houston school district was so bad the state took control of it. The parents are frequently featured on the evening news complaining bitterly about how they lost local control over their school system, but they never complained about their children not being taught anything. If the DOE is abolished, how will the school districts manage to fail their students’ education without federal oversight (/s)?
Posted by: Advo
===
Schools in urban districts and the teachers in them face a very difficult task. First is to keep order in the schools which far too many urban 'parents in name only' try to prevent any discipline of their kids. Second, if you do manage to keep order in a class, you have students that fundamentally do not want to be there, parents that do not care that their kids don't learn, and any real view of cause and effect that education will improve their lives.

Then you have incompetent and wasteful administrators when they are not malicious POS and add in unrealistic student expectations in these schools that they will become a millionaire by rapping, singing, being an influencer, and so on. Destruction and denigration of trade schools is rampant and disdained.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:50 AM (ctrM5)

179 The asians they let in have 800 math SATs, the blacks are more like 550.

We know who needs the course, and we know they'll be given As.

Posted by: M. Gaga at March 28, 2025 11:50 AM (KiBMU)

180 With their Harvard degrees, these “prestigious Ivy League graduates” will likely be going into “public policy” positions, despite their inability to do the math that I was doing in 8th grade, and that used to be expected of most 9th graders.

------------

At least they won't ever get elected to Congress.

Oh, wait ...

Posted by: ShainS -- The Dissolution of The Autopen Empire at March 28, 2025 11:50 AM (V+K+8)

181 I believe that new students at my local 2 yr Junior College are more intelligent and more well rounded than any incoming class Harvard has had for years.

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 28, 2025 11:50 AM (uWKK8)

182 Ferpetessakes, you use algebra all the time. I just did it like five minutes ago, looking out my window. Id like to plant hibiscus and petunias in a particular garden bed, 8' x 6'.

The hibiscus need 2" between and the petunias need 18". Both can planted 9" from the edge.

What combinations of flowers are possible?

This is an algebra problem.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at March 28, 2025 11:51 AM (BI5O2)

183 I believe you HAVE to pass these test to get a residency.

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:23 AM (gbOdA)

Not anymore!

- The American Medical Association, soon.
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, still gloating at March 28, 2025 11:35 AM (OuB2L)

All one has to write on an application for medical school is, "I wunt to be a dokter so I can heel my gramma".

Boom! You're in.

Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at March 28, 2025 11:51 AM (g8Ew8)

184 Mom taught Math 083 for years at the community college, but that was for students that got through school without understanding math. I guess the Ivies don't need competence to get in, just money and status.

Posted by: Kindltot at March 28, 2025 11:51 AM (D7oie)

185 California deserves Katie Porter as its next governor.

Posted by: mr tmz at March 28, 2025 11:52 AM (rJ48h)

186 182

The hibiscus need 2" between and the petunias need 18". Both can planted 9" from the edge.

What combinations of flowers are possible?

This is an algebra problem.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at March 28, 2025 11:51 AM (BI5O2

The insidiousness of math… it’s everywhere, just lurking…

Posted by: tubal at March 28, 2025 11:53 AM (PCK5/)

187 180 With their Harvard degrees, these “prestigious Ivy League graduates” will likely be going into “public policy” positions, despite their inability to do the math that I was doing in 8th grade, and that used to be expected of most 9th graders.
------------

At least they won't ever get elected to Congress.

Oh, wait ...
---------
That would explain a lot about Congress, come to think of it...

Posted by: exdem13 FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT at March 28, 2025 11:53 AM (XjTSo)

188 "Julie, who wears a DDD bra, goes out for a run. If she runs at a speed of 6 miles per hour, what will be the degrees of arc traversed by bouncing breasts after five miles?"

Posted by: Bulg at March 28, 2025 11:53 AM (77rzZ)

189 Good Heavens!
A Harvard man is now a 3rd world uneducated knuckle dragging savage!

Posted by: THURSTON HOWELL 111 at March 28, 2025 11:53 AM (W2EWw)

190 “Different trajectories in students’ math abilities…”

-------------

"Math be racist, yo -- and these chirrens are currently trajectory-challenged instead of trajectory-privileged, h8r!"

Posted by: ShainS -- The Dissolution of The Autopen Empire at March 28, 2025 11:54 AM (V+K+8)

191 At least they won't ever get elected to Congress.

Oh, wait ...
Posted by: ShainS -- The Dissolution of The Autopen Empire at March 28, 2025 11:50 AM (V+K+

Or get appointed to federal benches.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 28, 2025 11:55 AM (dGCAG)

192 Posted by: tubal at March 28, 2025 11:50 AM (PCK5/)

Hah. I grew up in South Louisiana and moved to NYC after pursuing my MBA to look for a job in advertising. I was willing to start in the mailroom if I had to.

I can't prove it but I believe my failure to get a job in that sector was because of my accent and NYC bias against southern people. My portfolio I thought was top notch .

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 11:55 AM (VofaG)

193 This is an algebra problem.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at March 28, 2025 11:51 AM (BI5O2)

----------------------

The answer, of course, is more than one and less than a million.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at March 28, 2025 11:55 AM (2UnvF)

194 I have never used algebra or calculus in the real world.

Calculus, maybe, but you use algebra all the time. You just don't think of it that way.

Admittedly, once you get to polynomials it starts to become more esoteric but basic algebra is just about learning to rearrange what you know so you can calculate the things you need to know but don't.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at March 28, 2025 11:55 AM (ExV1e)

195 179 The asians they let in have 800 math SATs, the blacks are more like 550.

We know who needs the course, and we know they'll be given As.
Posted by: M. Gaga at March 28, 2025 11:50 AM (KiBMU)

That is over 2 standard deviations.

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:56 AM (gbOdA)

196 182 The hibiscus need 2" between and the petunias need 18". Both can planted 9" from the edge.

What combinations of flowers are possible?

This is an algebra problem.

it's also very interesting as a luggage problem

Posted by: the luggage salesman from joe vs the volcano at March 28, 2025 11:56 AM (Gy5lD)

197 But our best and brightest at Ivy League universities are instead “investigating a number of different strategies used by different schools.”

-------------

@grok3 Please answer all the questions in this math exam

* uploads test file *

Posted by: ShainS -- The Dissolution of The Autopen Empire at March 28, 2025 11:56 AM (V+K+8)

198 177 Having lived in Arkansas for years now I am amazed how accents vary.Take the example of Bill Clinton, mild southern, and Mike Huckabee, could be a radio guy recruited from Nebraska. These two grew up in the same town. I was in a bar, and the owner was talking business with a guy. He left. I told her I thought the poor guy had a speech defect and she said "no, he's from one of those hollers where we don't even understand them".

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at March 28, 2025 11:56 AM (gm9Sb)

199 Hey, I have a swell idea!

Why don't we quit talking about RICOing the shit out of Soros, and...

RICO the shit out of Soros!!

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at March 28, 2025 11:57 AM (hTxP3)

200 Peggy Noonan. A low effort columnist. Brings hands, clutches pearls, calls others jejune. She is tiresome. Banal. You might say jejune. She demonstrates the characteristics she criticizes in others. Consistently low value columns. WSJ what is your return on investment in her,? can't be much. Do we really need another professional Karen asking to speak to the manager about the, gasp, bro culture? That'll attract the young male vote. DO YOU REALLY NOT SEE HOW OUT OF TOUCH YOU ARE WITH THE ELECTORATE????!!!?!?!?!. What would you say you do here? Is a question that should be put to the WSJ editorial board. Idiots all.

Posted by: Simplemind at March 28, 2025 11:57 AM (xF2CU)

201 - The American Medical Association, soon.
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, still gloating at March 28, 2025 11:35 AM (OuB2L)

All one has to write on an application for medical school is, "I wunt to be a dokter so I can heel my gramma".

Boom! You're in.
Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at March 28, 2025 11:51 AM (g8Ew

It's all about the boxes you check on your life narrative entrance essay.

Posted by: Cuthbert the Witless at March 28, 2025 11:57 AM (OA79/)

202 Name a career that doesn't include accounting.

Working for the US Treasury, apparently.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at March 28, 2025 11:57 AM (ExV1e)

203 What we need is commonsense algebra control.

Posted by: Dirac_Delta at March 28, 2025 11:57 AM (/jCTz)

204 192 Posted by: tubal at March 28, 2025 11:50 AM (PCK5/)

Hah. I grew up in South Louisiana and moved to NYC after pursuing my MBA to look for a job in advertising. I was willing to start in the mailroom if I had to.

I can't prove it but I believe my failure to get a job in that sector was because of my accent and NYC bias against southern people. My portfolio I thought was top notch .
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 11:55 AM (VofaG)

But hey, totally fine because dumb hillbillies/southerners… still an acceptable butt of jokes… everyone can play!!!

Posted by: tubal at March 28, 2025 11:57 AM (PCK5/)

205 Agreed. The credentialed elite class types I know are almost uniformly idiots. Really changed my view on the world.

Not to mention the elites we all see on TV. I suppose it could be an act but I dont think so.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes
-----
Even back when the meritocracy was at its height (arguably), David Halberstam wrote an interesting history book called the Best and Brightest that dealt with those elite's unrealistic expectations and failure to learn lessons from the past to apply to Vietnam.

Part of it is that far too many people push the novel idea as their ticket to fame rather than wisdom borne of experience and knowledge.

The reason, of course, is a race to distinguish oneself from the others in an elite drone class to get the glory, power, and money.

So you get idiotic ideals like the Littoral Class navy ships that are even more poorly implemented. You get Fukuyama declaring History is Over. And so on.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:57 AM (ctrM5)

206 That would be because - according to what I've heard at least - some well-intentioned bureaucrat required that schools not merely hire a coach. They have to hire someone who teaches as well as coaches.

***********

Tangential, but I was amazed to see that a high school in fort Collins had fired 10 coaches for some undisclosed policy offense. Only one of them also taught a class. But the amazing part was that all 10 of the coaches were track & field coaches. A coaching staff of 10 at a single high school. And they were all salaried positions. I must be out of touch.

Posted by: muldoon at March 28, 2025 11:58 AM (/iMjX)

207 "What is Harvard's 3% admissions rate selecting for 🤔"

Not Asian. Not white. Preferably not male or heterosexual.

Thus endeth the list.

Posted by: mea culpa at March 28, 2025 11:58 AM (YxlHp)

208 That is over 2 standard deviations.
Posted by: rhennigantx at March 28, 2025 11:56 AM (gbOdA)

cool guys use Delta

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 11:58 AM (VofaG)

209 All one has to write on an application for medical school is, "I wunt to be a dokter so I can heel my gramma".

Boom! You're in.
Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons
-------
At that point, Grannie Clampett's Mountain Doctor degree doesn't look so bad.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 11:58 AM (ctrM5)

210 45 Blame No Child Left Behind.
Posted by: jmel at March 28, 2025 11:18 AM (RWHIh)

---------------

It was more Common Core from Obama.

NCLB had increasing testing standards as the years went on. Schools were rated on the # of passing students and it got very hard in 2006 to 2008 with schools starting to be put under direct state control if they failed. There was a major uproar among teachers and the unions and Obama ran on repealing NCLB. When he won, he was good on his promise and started Common Core which was a Bill Gates atrocity. Common Core was complete crap as learning paradigm.

I have 4 kids ages 13 to 25 so I'm very familiar with what happened and saw the results in my own children.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at March 28, 2025 11:58 AM (rPb9O)

211 188 "Julie, who wears a DDD bra, goes out for a run. If she runs at a speed of 6 miles per hour, what will be the degrees of arc traversed by bouncing breasts after five miles?"

forty-two!

Posted by: deep thought at March 28, 2025 11:59 AM (Gy5lD)

212 41 To be fair, it's hard to learn teh mathz when you have to spend so much time hobnobbing with other rich and famous tweeners. That yacht ain't gonna sail itself through the south of France IYKWIMAITYD
Posted by: Schleprock at March 28, 2025 11:18 AM (DJw6W)

Are you related to the Hampton Schleprock's?

Posted by: Muffy Farquhar Willingham (totally not a social climber) at March 28, 2025 11:59 AM (PiwSw)

213 It's all about the boxes you check on your life narrative entrance essay.
Posted by: Cuthbert the Witless at March 28, 2025 11:57 AM (OA79/)

-------------------

I was born a poor black child...

Posted by: Duke Lowell at March 28, 2025 12:00 PM (2UnvF)

214 A Divinity College whose current Dean of the Divinity School is an atheist.
Posted by: Darrell Harris at March 28, 2025 11:39 AM (H+y4v)

I got that beat. -- Pope Frankie

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at March 28, 2025 12:00 PM (ExV1e)

215 That would be because - according to what I've heard at least - some well-intentioned bureaucrat required that schools not merely hire a coach. They have to hire someone who teaches as well as coaches.

So schools hire a coach and tell him to teach a class as well.
Posted by: FeatherBlade
=========
I had a coach for a teacher, my junior year in High School. It was a health class or something, don't remember, because Coach would just come in each day, put on a movie, turn out the lights, and fall asleep in the back. We could do anything we wanted as long as we didn't make enough noise to wake him up. One of the kids took roll and you got an A in the class just for showing up most of the time. (I used it to read sci-fi stories, mainly)

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 28, 2025 12:01 PM (uWKK8)

216 But the amazing part was that all 10 of the coaches were track & field coaches. A coaching staff of 10 at a single high school. And they were all salaried positions. I must be out of touch.

Haven't you ever heard of Toe Coaches?

Posted by: Muffy Farquhar Willingham (totally not a social climber) at March 28, 2025 12:01 PM (PiwSw)

217 Tangential, but I was amazed to see that a high school in fort Collins had fired 10 coaches for some undisclosed policy offense. Only one of them also taught a class. But the amazing part was that all 10 of the coaches were track & field coaches. A coaching staff of 10 at a single high school. And they were all salaried positions. I must be out of touch.
Posted by: muldoon at March 28, 2025 11:58 AM (/iMjX)

Let's see... sprinters, distant runners, a shot putter, a high jumper... If you have 4 of each of the running categories, that's one coach to molest each kid on the team.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 28, 2025 12:02 PM (dGCAG)

218 Tangential, but I was amazed to see that a high school in fort Collins had fired 10 coaches for some undisclosed policy offense. Only one of them also taught a class. But the amazing part was that all 10 of the coaches were track & field coaches. A coaching staff of 10 at a single high school. And they were all salaried positions. I must be out of touch.
Posted by: muldoon
--------
You have coaches for male and female track and a fairly large school, I can see that. But that is a choice by administrators and the School Board. To some extent, you start to run into local control versus state control and it might actually be worse if teachers were all employed by the state of Colorado rather than local school districts as your state leg and governor are apparently nuts now.

Subsidiarity helps those localities help themselves but allows others to sink or swim. Get the states involved and you get cookie cutter rules that may not make sense at the local level but guarantees some sort of minimal mediocre std. And so it goes.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 12:03 PM (ctrM5)

219 I had a coach for a teacher, my junior year in High School. It was a health class or something, don't remember, because Coach would just come in each day, put on a movie, turn out the lights, and fall asleep in the back. We could do anything we wanted as long as we didn't make enough noise to wake him up. One of the kids took roll and you got an A in the class just for showing up most of the time. (I used it to read sci-fi stories, mainly)
Posted by: Tom Servo

My HS typing teacher was the assistant football coach. He would show those old NFL weekly highlight films every Friday.

Posted by: Bulg at March 28, 2025 12:03 PM (77rzZ)

220 osted by: Schleprock at March 28, 2025 11:18 AM (DJw6W)

Hah my Nic in college was Rock. Short for Schleprock.

I had the weirdest and funniest bad luck one could have.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 12:03 PM (VofaG)

221 I would not say that someone who can't handle 8th grade algebra doesn't belong at Harvard.

I say that someone who can't handle 8th or 9th grade algebra doesn't belong in college. Period. In fact, I think that person should not have been given a H.S. diploma.

Trades? I've worked alongside an experienced carpenter. He had at least practical experience in simple algebra and trignometry.

Posted by: RonF at March 28, 2025 12:03 PM (l8nW6)

222 I'm actually curious about this.

Can these "kids" write their name in cursive?

Posted by: Stateless...77% - mental state clawing up from 10% at March 28, 2025 12:03 PM (jvJvP)

223 >>>I was told there would he no math.
Posted by: tankdemon

You're worthless and weak! You're going to take your math and like it!

Do I make myself clear?

Posted by: Rev Wishbone at March 28, 2025 12:04 PM (fY84s)

224 I had a coach for a teacher, my junior year in High School. It was a health class or something, don't remember, because Coach would just come in each day, put on a movie, turn out the lights, and fall asleep in the back. We could do anything we wanted as long as we didn't make enough noise to wake him up. One of the kids took roll and you got an A in the class just for showing up most of the time. (I used it to read sci-fi stories, mainly)
Posted by: Tom Servo
========
A few times, I had a mediocre coach that was actually good in class. Most were the opposite.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 12:04 PM (ctrM5)

225 I got that beat. -- Pope Frankie
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at March 28, 2025 12:00 PM (ExV1e)

There's something fishy about the story of his recovery.

He was all but dead... then he came back. It's a miracle!

That, or whatever they were blackmailing him with, they got their asking price.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 28, 2025 12:04 PM (dGCAG)

226 186 The insidiousness of math… it’s everywhere, just lurking…

you know who else is everywhere?

Posted by: savoir faire at March 28, 2025 12:04 PM (Gy5lD)

227 and even The Times of India: “3% Admission Rate? Why Harvard’s New Introductory Math Course is Under Fire”

The Times of India should focus more on the fact that engineering schools in India are so awful that engineering students graduate without knowing basic engineering principles:

Why Indian Engineers are Unemployable & what’s (sic) the solutions

https://bit.ly/4hOkKpi

"Engineering colleges in India are churning out only 25% quality engineers and nearly 80-85% of youngsters are not suitably trained for any job".

However, the existing educational system often neglects skills like effective communication, design thinking, critical thinking, and problem-solving. [ ... ] A striking issue is that a significant portion of engineering graduates, approximately 94%, lacks the necessary skills for employment, which leads to the industry having to retrain even those who secure jobs. The Aspiring Minds study revealed that a minimal 4.77% could write the correct logic for a programming job. This employability crisis isn't limited to IT; it extends to roles like mechanical design engineer and civil engineer...

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at March 28, 2025 12:04 PM (P5BPp)

228 Can these "kids" write their name in cursive?
Posted by: Stateless...77% - mental state clawing up from 10% at March 28, 2025 12:03 PM (jvJvP)

Poor little Fucktavious has no choice.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 28, 2025 12:05 PM (VoAdT)

229 The hibiscus need 2" between and the petunias need 18". Both can planted 9" from the edge.

What combinations of flowers are possible?

This is an algebra problem.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at March 28, 2025 11:51 AM (BI5O2)

It sure is, and that's why I ask the guy at the Home Depot garden center what to do. Let him figure it out.

Posted by: hobbitopoly at March 28, 2025 12:05 PM (k9OZB)

230 Can these "kids" write their name in cursive?
Posted by: Stateless.
=======
I think that has been pretty much dumped across the US. They teach them to print and keyboard nowadays.

Many students probably cannot read cursive anymore.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 12:05 PM (ctrM5)

231 One of our HS coaches taught Civics. He wasn't too bad as teaching coaches go.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 12:05 PM (VofaG)

232 There is a story that has suddenly gained a lot of media traction, especially in conservative corners of the internet. Specifically, the story is about Harvard introducing a remedial math course for its students who arrive with “a lack of foundational algebra skills,” to use the language from a Harvard Crimson article titled “Harvard Launches New Intro Math Course to Address Pandemic Learning Loss”

-

I'll just leave this here for anyone keeping up at home:

"White students in Harvard’s new class will find themselves a minority for the first time in history"

https://tinyurl.com/2ace8etz

Posted by: Boron Cobbie - Geriatric pregnancies hurt America's babies at March 28, 2025 12:05 PM (qSMcm)

233 Cursive stinks. Other than for signatures, it's worthless.

Posted by: Bulg at March 28, 2025 12:06 PM (77rzZ)

234 “Pandemic learning loss.” Peak stupid. You gotta love it.

Posted by: Going deep. Out. at March 28, 2025 12:06 PM (FIXtj)

235 Admittedly, once you get to polynomials it starts to become more esoteric but basic algebra is just about learning to rearrange what you know so you can calculate the things you need to know but don't.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at March 28, 2025 11:55 AM (ExV1e)

--------------

Algebra was the key to helping me ace chemistry and physics classes in college (which for some reason I never took in high school).

The formula was simple in analyzing the word problem: how many unknowns are there (two, three, four, or more)?

Once that's determined, then I need to determine and solve at least the same number of equations for relating those particular unknowns (e.g. if there are three unknowns -- labeled x, y, & z -- then three equations relating them to one another sufficed to solve them and produce the answers).

You're welcome! [Wifey says I've lost everybody ...]

Posted by: ShainS -- The Dissolution of The Autopen Empire at March 28, 2025 12:06 PM (V+K+8)

236 Harvard you say?
Pffttt Pikers

-The Oz Scarecrow

Posted by: I'm Gumby Damn It! at March 28, 2025 12:06 PM (/ceBf)

237 One of our HS coaches taught Civics.

----

Asian students are better.

Posted by: Josephistan at March 28, 2025 12:06 PM (y9ksN)

238 White students are icky, throw rocks at them… New Harvard T-Shirt..

Posted by: tubal at March 28, 2025 12:07 PM (PCK5/)

239 >All one has to write on an application for medical school is, "I wunt to be a dokter so I can heel my gramma".

Boom! You're in.
Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at March 28, 2025 11:51 AM (g8Ew

It's all about the boxes you check on your life narrative entrance essay.

Posted by: Cuthbert the Witless at March 28, 2025 11:57 AM (OA79/)

Meta Son is in Med School. He first applied in 2020. Despite having an MCAT score in the 98% percentile, hundreds of volunteer hours at clinics, hospice, as a paramedic, he was rejected from every school he applied to. Based on what I saw at his white coat ceremony, lots of boxes being checked. His class has maybe 20% white males. And I am being generous.

Posted by: Heavy Meta at March 28, 2025 12:07 PM (GTqXr)

240 223 >>>I was told there would he no math.
Posted by: tankdemon

I was told there would be no meth.

But here we are.

Posted by: Stateless...77% - mental state clawing up from 10% at March 28, 2025 12:07 PM (jvJvP)

241 "That's too much. The students at Harvard are, for the most part, highly "elite", when elite is a measure of academic prowess, as reflected in SAT/ACT scores, and demonstrated ability to conduct independent research."

Posted by: Archimedes at March 28, 2025 11:08 AM

If you have not mastered Algebra I and II your Math SAT score is going to be abysmal and your academic prowess is low.

The Liberal Arts are not just the Humanities and Arts. Mathematics and the physical sciences (Chemistry, Biology, Physics, Astronomy) are included as well.

Posted by: RonF at March 28, 2025 12:07 PM (l8nW6)

242 Nothing to see here, move along...

https://tinyurl.com/mpc5udws

Posted by: Chuck Martel at March 28, 2025 12:07 PM (Dv3i1)

243 Ferpetessakes, you use algebra all the time. I just did it like five minutes ago, looking out my window. Id like to plant hibiscus and petunias in a particular garden bed, 8' x 6'.

The hibiscus need 2" between and the petunias need 18". Both can planted 9" from the edge.

What combinations of flowers are possible?

This is an algebra problem.
==
This is hilarious. I can assure you, eyeballing it and plopping them in so it looks nice, does not involve solving for X, or figuring rates of change or the area under a curve.

Posted by: Simplemind at March 28, 2025 12:08 PM (xF2CU)

244 One of our HS coaches taught Civics. He wasn't too bad as teaching coaches go.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 12:05 PM (VofaG)

We had a coach who had been in Vietnam. He didn't so much "teach" a class, as he stood around and mumbled words that nobody listened to. And then he'd tell everyone to read the book, and fall asleep at his desk...

Until somebody dropped a book on the floor. Hard. Then he was back in the jungle, hunting for gooks.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 28, 2025 12:08 PM (dGCAG)

245 All one has to write on an application for medical school is, "I wunt to be a dokter so I can heel my gramma".

-

Your spelling needs improvement but your grammar is above average. Accepted!

Posted by: Boron Cobbie - Geriatric pregnancies hurt America's babies at March 28, 2025 12:08 PM (qSMcm)

246 22 The average math SAT score at Harvard is 790. There is no way you need remedial math with that score. There's more to the story here.

Apparently they've let a few low scorers in to balance off the ones who got 800.

Posted by: RonF at March 28, 2025 12:08 PM (l8nW6)

247 235
‘ I need to determine and solve at least the same number of equations for relating those particular unknowns (e.g. if there are three unknowns -- labeled x, y, & z -- then three equations relating them to one another sufficed to solve them and produce the answers).’

Sounds like a Simplex problem.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at March 28, 2025 12:08 PM (jbnUc)

248 Cursive stinks. Other than for signatures, it's worthless.
Posted by: Bulg at March 28, 2025 12:06 PM (77rzZ)

Agreed. This isn’t the 18th century. Fast and accurate touch typing is a far more useful skill.

Posted by: Disinterested FDA Director at March 28, 2025 12:09 PM (l3YAf)

249 Why Indian Engineers are Unemployable & what’s (sic) the solutions

https://bit.ly/4hOkKpi

"Engineering colleges in India are churning out only 25% quality engineers and nearly 80-85% of youngsters are not suitably trained for any job".

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at March 28, 2025 12:04 PM

The kicker here is that Stellantis (and maybe others in auto industry) has completely changed the majority of their product development engineering departments to remove quality American direct employee engineers and replace them with these incompetent remote-working, outsourced BCC (Best Cost Country) "engineers" in India.

I know, because I was one of the engineers laid off last year and now have been working with these idiots for the past year after I went back to my old position as a contract employee.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at March 28, 2025 12:09 PM (P5BPp)

250 you know who else is everywhere?
Posted by: savoir faire at March 28, 2025 12:04 PM (Gy5lD)

Big Penguin.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at March 28, 2025 12:09 PM (ExV1e)

251 My kids grades were crap in Catholic school. Frustrated me bad.

Entry testing for Junior College: no remedial. Something stuck.

Posted by: Francis at March 28, 2025 12:09 PM (bbuBP)

252 One of our HS coaches taught Civics. He wasn't too bad as teaching coaches go.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 12:05 PM (VofaG)

-------------

For those of us 29-year-old who had to take Drivers Ed in high school (usually sophomore year), I'll bet most of our instructors were coaches.

Mine was my favorite football coach (a Vince Lombardi clone) and he would have the class in stitches -- and more importantly, full-engaged -- with his teaching methods and jokes. Even the girls loved him!

Posted by: ShainS -- The Dissolution of The Autopen Empire at March 28, 2025 12:09 PM (V+K+8)

253 You better know calculus if you want to be a successful farmer.

Posted by: Case at March 28, 2025 12:09 PM (OrSPY)

254 *29-year-olds

Posted by: ShainS -- The Dissolution of The Autopen Empire at March 28, 2025 12:09 PM (V+K+8)

255 Nood upstairs

Posted by: Chuck Martel at March 28, 2025 12:09 PM (Dv3i1)

256 Once that's determined, then I need to determine and solve at least the same number of equations for relating those particular unknowns (e.g. if there are three unknowns -- labeled x, y, & z -- then three equations relating them to one another sufficed to solve them and produce the answers).

You're welcome! [Wifey says I've lost everybody ...]
Posted by: ShainS -- The Dissolution of The Autopen Empire at March 28, 2025 12:06 PM (V+K+

-------------

I didn't learn that method until Thermodynamics. And that was after high school chemistry and two semesters of college chemistry. For some reason chemistry classes that I had didn't teach it. I was pretty pissed when the Thermo professor showed us and still wonder why it wasn't taught in chemistry.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at March 28, 2025 12:09 PM (rPb9O)

257 233 Cursive stinks. Other than for signatures, it's worthless.
Posted by: Bulg
======
Born in a time and place where you had quill pens. If you try to print with a quill pen, you spill ink blots if not careful because you raise your pen off the paper to do so.Plus, easier to write in a flowing manner with a quill or the later fountain pen anywhere rather than have access to a typewriter.

So useful for personal communications and a bit a flair in demonstrating good penmanship.

Posted by: whig at March 28, 2025 12:10 PM (ctrM5)

258 Looking back at high school, most of our male teachers were veterans.Most female, married to veterans. One teacher stood out, our PE and sometimes other classes teacher. During boy's senior year, close order drill was taught during PE because he thought it might come in handy in the very new future.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at March 28, 2025 12:10 PM (gm9Sb)

259 Ace is up with some Nood

Posted by: Josephistan at March 28, 2025 12:10 PM (y9ksN)

260 Algorithm discussions down at the local cafe…

Posted by: tubal at March 28, 2025 12:10 PM (PCK5/)

261 We had a coach who had been in Vietnam.
Posted by: BurtTC at March 28, 2025 12:08 PM (dGCAG)

We had an English teacher that was in Vietnam. The guys in the class used to give him a hard time until he picked up a desk, held it over his head, and basically threatened everyone. Class shaped up pretty quick. I liked him, actually.

Posted by: hobbitopoly at March 28, 2025 12:10 PM (k9OZB)

262 One of our HS coaches taught Civics. He wasn't too bad as teaching coaches go.

-

That's one of the things that always made the "oh poor pitiful us, teaching is so hard" such a comical argument.

The coaches, who are teaching to meet the requirements to coach, are often as good or better teachers than the others.

Posted by: Boron Cobbie - Geriatric pregnancies hurt America's babies at March 28, 2025 12:11 PM (qSMcm)

263 About 10 years ago or a bit more, CA's state university system (not UC, the San Jose and San Diego States) ceased reporting the % of incoming students requiring remedial English and math. I think it had hit near 50% in some cases. They also made some change to the whole thing, argument being it wasn't fair to charge students for classes that didn't count towards a degree.

Anyway, the catastrophic institutional and cultural collapse reflected in the entire thing was breath-taking. In a state that had the #1 ranking for public education when those now in power had been young people.

Posted by: rhomboid at March 28, 2025 12:11 PM (1m82a)

264 "Want to improve Math skills? Educate the teachers and require them to become competent in the subjects they are teaching."

This!

And don't collapse on the fainting couch when some foreign-looking American business man calls you out on this.

How DARE YOU!

Posted by: pawn at March 28, 2025 12:11 PM (QB+5g)

265 Even artists need to know algebra and geometry if they want to be successful. Painting is a subconscious
application of math in nature . one reason the rule of thirds is frequently used.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 28, 2025 12:11 PM (VofaG)

266 You better know calculus if you want to be a successful farmer.
Posted by: Case at March 28, 2025 12:09 PM (OrSPY)

If the tractor holds 150 gallons of diesel, and your economy varies as a function of weight as fuel is consumed, how much of the field can you harrow before nevermind it's raining now.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 28, 2025 12:12 PM (VoAdT)

267 The math academy I attended as a youth had a strict disciplinarian as a headmaster. We learned that actually solving math problems wasn't that important as long as we understood the principal...

Posted by: muldoon at March 28, 2025 12:12 PM (/iMjX)

268 I asked her a basic question abut the Quadratic Equation. She was utterly confused. I asked her what her training consisted of. She said she had a Masters Degree. When I inquired in what area she said: Education. She told me when asked that she was not required to take any math classes in either HS or College. I don't know who thought she could teach students basic Algebra. ...

Want to improve Math skills? Educate the teachers and require them to become competent in the subjects they are teaching. Education is a pointless degree to teach STEM subjects.

Posted by: Alfred at March 28, 2025 11:14 AM (b6c/x)

My daughter has a B.S. in EE. She decided she didn't want to be an engineer. The State she lives in has a program to address this very issue. Someone with a STEM degree can go through a process of student teaching and then are given 5 years to get a M.A. in Education while they are teaching STEM subjects. If they are successful (not hard to do) they get certified, tenure, and the 5 years count towards their pension.

Posted by: RonF at March 28, 2025 12:13 PM (l8nW6)

269 225 I got that beat. -- Pope Frankie
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at March 28, 2025 12:00 PM (ExV1e)

There's something fishy about the story of his recovery.

He was all but dead... then he came back. It's a miracle!

That, or whatever they were blackmailing him with, they got their asking price.
Posted by: BurtTC at March 28, 2025 12:04 PM (dGCAG)

He was mostly dead...but that means that he's a little alive.

Posted by: Miracle Max at March 28, 2025 12:14 PM (H+y4v)

270 Cursive stinks. Other than for signatures, it's worthless.

Nope; Some of the old fogies such as me still write cards and letters to people by hand, and actually write our own sentiments in addition to depending on Hallmark. But I think most younger people don't do that and cursive is on its way out. Also, it wasn't a paying gig but several weeks ago some archival place needed people to decipher manuscripts from the 1700 or 1800s I also loathe typing long things.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 28, 2025 12:16 PM (42Vb+)

271 You have no idea how lacking in fundamental life and eduction skills current college students are.

I teach at a small university on the East Coast. We have kids coming in for ostensibly college prep schools who cannot read at higher than a 5th-grade level.

Basic thesis statements, organization of ideas, sentence structure and paragraph building are beyond them.

They cannot read or think critically. If it's not condensed into a short video -- short defined as 90 seconds or less -- it cannot keep their focus or attention.

I've had to use "School House Rock" to help them with parts of speeech.

An overwhelming majority of them cannot sit in a class that lasts for an hour and fifteen minutes without getting a hit of dopamine from their ever-present phones or laptops.

The current crop of 18- to 22-year olds are brainless, pleasure-seeking Eloi who are proud of their laziness, weakness, and utter ignorance.They see no reason to change and have to aspirations to improve.

Posted by: CrankyJAnne at March 28, 2025 12:16 PM (D9jZp)

272 54 When's the last time any of you did Algebra?
Posted by: Pudinhead at March 28, 2025 11:20 AM (Hpgos)

Today. I'm a network engineer.

Posted by: RonF at March 28, 2025 12:16 PM (l8nW6)

273 [snip]

I know, because I was one of the engineers laid off last year and now have been working with these idiots for the past year after I went back to my old position as a contract employee.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at March 28, 2025 12:09 PM (P5BPp)

---------------

[I've told this story before:] One of my friends in SoCal was an Oracle Apps specialist for First American Financial Corporation.

One day in the early 2000's he tells me that they've decided to outsource all that IT work to a company in India -- I loved your characterization as BCC (Best Cost Country) "engineers" -- and of course, his and his co-workers severance pay would be conditioned on them training their "replacements."

He laughed and said that within six months, they'd be begging him and the others to come back -- and that he'd ask for twice the money. He was right. And after that, he always referred to the company as "First Indian" instead of "First American." heh

Posted by: ShainS -- The Dissolution of The Autopen Empire at March 28, 2025 12:17 PM (V+K+8)

274 267 The math academy I attended as a youth had a strict disciplinarian as a headmaster. We learned that actually solving math problems wasn't that important as long as we understood the principal...

did he have a thick accent or something?

Posted by: anachronda at March 28, 2025 12:18 PM (Gy5lD)

275 lie, who wears a DDD bra, goes out for a run. If she runs at a speed of 6 miles per hour, what will be the degrees of arc traversed by bouncing breasts after five miles?"
==
While I do not know how to solve this word problem, I will spend a few moments imagining some practical steps that could be taken to estimate the answer. And how those practical steps might lead to relieving Julie of any other troubling stressors that may need alleviation after a vigorous bout of exercise. The poor dear.

Posted by: Simplemind at March 28, 2025 12:19 PM (xF2CU)

276 Me (being the ultimate in stubborn) said no way. I stayed in engineering, studied a lot and eventually graduated with a very good GPA (close to 4.0) and went on to earn a PhD in engineering. Moral of the story; Your knowledge level as you enter college probably isn’t that important.
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at March 28, 2025 11:15 AM (6RwsA)

Yes, but you're still an "engineer".

Posted by: Dr. Sheldon Cooper PHD in Physics at March 28, 2025 12:20 PM (dgRL6)

277 Posted by: CrankyJAnne at March 28, 2025 12:16 PM (D9jZp)

--------------

Damn, that was depressing.

"The truth will make you free, but first it will make you miserable."

Posted by: ShainS -- The Dissolution of The Autopen Empire at March 28, 2025 12:21 PM (V+K+8)

278 Mid-1980s, and I'm a graduate student and TA at a State engineering college. The college had a remedial math program even back then. It had been set up as an immersion course for foreign students, to familiarize them with English language terminology, etc.

OK, so far so good. It was basically just 10 tests of certain complexity across a gamut of mathematical branches, and was self-directed (I was more monitor than instructor). The students could, literally, take all 10 tests immediately and be done with it. Many of them did get through it all in about two months.

What surprised me, though, was the number of American students in that class. They had failed to test into the college's math programs, but were given a 2nd chance at it.

I have always wondered how can you opt to go to an engineering college, and not have appreciable math skills? And this was 40 years ago. (Long before COVID, too.)

I guess the news is that this kind of thing is finally exposed at the level of Harvard.

Posted by: LCMS Rulz! at March 28, 2025 12:27 PM (bufu1)

279 An entire thread on math sorcery.

*shakes head*

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 28, 2025 12:41 PM (jc0TO)

280 It seems that the phones being used by the people in the infamous chat room were “corporate phones” handed over from the preceding administration. The “signal app” was installed by the CIA specifically for discussions among the bigwigs. The phone lists were already in place for the app, to include the address on Signal for the head of The Atlantic. The group was set up by a staffer, not by Mike Waltz. The Staffer appears to be Alex Wong. (PRC connection? Chinese born, been in government since 2007, been working with state or as a advisor for foreign policy and law ever since… appointed by Trump to his current role as “Principal Deputy National Security Advisor.”

Posted by: SMOD at March 28, 2025 01:02 PM (RHGPo)

281 In relation to the other article about cutting off the foreign student pipeline. This particular topic, needing remedial math, shows a method to cut off the domestic pipeline as well. Without all that juicy tuition money, all these profs, administrators, etc will have to get out of the ivory tower and get real, productive jobs.

Here's my plan: Simply make an eligibility exam for Federal Student Loans. We've all seen the videos, KeroNgb on YT being one prime example, of college students failing pretty basic general knowledge questions. I would propose an exam be administered to everyone applying for Federal Student Loans. Depending on your results, your eligibility may be only "remedial, local Community College" because you can't name 20 states, who attacked Pearl Harbor, what happened on Sept 1, 1939, spell, the 7 continents, what year the Declaration of Independence was signed, who fought who in the US Civil War, compose basic sentences, or do 9th grade math. Now, if you demonstrate moderate levels, perhaps you'd be eligible for "in state, 4 year university" or even "full eligibility" for top. Repeat the exam annually as the student progresses through their schooling.

Posted by: No Name Guy at March 28, 2025 01:13 PM (ns+fa)

282 A few thoughts:

The impact of COVID closures and remote learning is very real. My wife is a speech therapist, and sees learning delays all the time in the kids who were quarantined, or forced to spend their time on Zoom classrooms. That's a further indictment of the system's support for that BS during the pandemic, of which I'm sure Harvard was totally supportive.

My daughter has had 12 years of classical Christian education, and is currently doing CALCULUS as a HS senior. It's not a skate for her by any stretch, but most importantly her teachers have NEVER handed out "easy As" in those 12 years. What sticks in my craw is that even if she were remotely interested in going to an Ivy, or other "elite" universities, is that she would most likely be passed over for DEI reasons.

But that's probably a blessing in disguise. Frankly, the Harvard/Ivy League product is well past its sell-by date, certainly at the undergrad level, and likely at the grad/professional level too.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at March 28, 2025 01:42 PM (uY1j2)

283 Meta Son is in Med School. He first applied in 2020. Despite having an MCAT score in the 98% percentile, hundreds of volunteer hours at clinics, hospice, as a paramedic, he was rejected from every school he applied to. Based on what I saw at his white coat ceremony, lots of boxes being checked. His class has maybe 20% white males. And I am being generous.
------------
Yup. I got into a good med school in the late '80s, but that was when classes were still ~50:50 male:female, and white males weren't the racist devils we are now. I'm convinced that if I were to apply to the U. Cal system now for undergrad, I wouldn't have a snowball's chance in Hell. Ditto for most med schools.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at March 28, 2025 01:50 PM (uY1j2)

284 1968 was a pivotal year at Carnegie Mellon University. MLK was killed. As a result a Black Studies Dept was formed. Entrance requirements were lowered for special students. And I and other engineering students tutored those students in BASIC math and algebra. Harvard isn’t doing something new.

Posted by: BigG at March 28, 2025 04:44 PM (9tuKL)

285 Harvard and Yale run by the idiots who got four D's a F and a H on their Report Cards

Posted by: Tamaa the Drongo Bird at March 28, 2025 04:53 PM (wGqjj)

286 Colleges do assess incoming students knowledge, especially if they are applying for a technical degree.

I had to take a trigonometry class. It could have been done by a 3 day seminar, but that does not get you to pay for 3 credit hours.

Posted by: somejoe at March 29, 2025 04:28 AM (RCAte)

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