Gun Thread: January 12th Edition!

Damnit, dates at the bottom of the boxes again!

Howdy, Y'all! Welcome to the wondrously fabulous Gun Thread! As always, I want to thank all of our regulars for being here week in and week out, and also offer a bigly Gun Thread welcome to any newcomers who may be joining us tonight. Howdy and thank you for stopping by! I hope you find our wacky conversation on the subject of guns 'n shooting both enjoyable and informative. You are always welcome to lurk in the shadows of shame, but I'd like to invite you to jump into the conversation, say howdy, and tell us what kind of shooting you like to do!

Holy Shitballs! How in the ever-loving hell did it get to be Sunday again? It's going to be a quick thread tonight, hombres and hombrettes. Your old pal Weasel is a wee-tad occupied with work stuff right now, putting in three, and sometimes even four hour days! With any luck things will calm down soon and return to normal. Other regular features will return soon. Thanks for understanding!

With that, step into the dojo and let's get to the gun stuff below, shall we?

******

FUNdamentals

Focus on fundamentals, 'kay?

******
Guns of the Horde
We are saved tonight, content-wise, by our pal EdL who sends us a report on his BWC-9 pistol caliber carbine. Take it away Ed L!

The folding, concealable pistol caliber carbine (PCC) or personal defense weapon (PDW) is a longstanding dream with many gun designers from the 1980s onward. Brugger and Thomet (B&T) introduced their version, the BWC-9, in 2023. At first glance, it looks like a simple rectangular box with a carrying handle.

Press the latch on the right side of the BWC-9 and flick your wrist. Push the magazine home. Rack the charging handle on the left side. The BWC-9 will unfold into a carbine equipped with an Aimpoint Accro P2 red dot sight.

The BWC-9 accommodates a SIG P320 fire control unit (FCU), slide, and barrel into its chassis. To fold up the BWC-9 again, clear the firearm, drop the magazine halfway out using the retainer in the pistol grip, and press the tab in the upper rear of the pistol grip to fold the pistol grip inward below the slide and barrel. Lift the rear cover and stock will fold up underneath the rest of the BWC-9, neatly concealing the pistol grip. The BWC-9 can accommodate 9mm (shown here), .357 SIG, or .40 S&W chamberings of the SIG P320.

The Aimpoint Accro P2 greatly aids accuracy. Shown here are groups at 20 yards (bullseye target) and 25 yards (silhouette target). Both used 9mm 124 grain Federal Syntech ammunition. Note that even though the silhouette target is meant for use at 25 feet, the BWC-9 is still able to put every shot in the black at triple that distance. I think the BWC-9 passes the accuracy test for a PDW.

The BWC-9 is sold as a chassis. Since it's not a firearm, you don't need to submit a 4473 when you purchase it. Installing the SIG P320 FCU does make it a short barrel rifle (SBR) and therefore, an NFA item.
The BWC-9 has significant downsides. It's not cheap ($2,300 for the chassis alone, $650 and up for the donor SIG P320, and the $200 tax stamp for the Form 1 to make the SIG P320 FCU into an SBR). Racking the charging handle isn't easy because the charging handle maximizes concealability, not ergonomics. You must put a significant amount of grip force into a small piece of material in order to rack the slide. Installing the SIG P320 FCU into the BWC-9 chassis is a PITA because it's a very tight fit between the two. You might need to use a rubber mallet or puck to fully seat the FCU in. Once installed, you'll need a flat head screwdriver to disassemble the BWC-9's components for cleaning. But if you're willing to accept these minuses, you'll have a very light, compact, concealable PDW platform that's unlike anything else on the market today as of January 2025.

Ho-lee Crap! Thank you Ed L!! Excellent write-up and I appreciate it!

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Speaking of Carbines

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Our Pal Minkowski Spacetime

Are you current on your Lorentz transformations?

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Halp! The Propeller on my B-17 Fell Off!

If I get one request a week for B-17 propeller installation guidance, I must get a dozen, so here you go.

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Highway Patrol and The Sniperl!

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The Night America Trembled
Here is something I hadn't seen before; a 1957 dramatization of Orson Welles' Mercury Theatre War of the Worlds broadcast in 1938. Look for some familiar names and most excellent commercials!

******

Ammo Link-O-Rama
I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop
American Elite Ammo NEW!

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That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

Posted by: Weasel at 07:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 LATE!!!!

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at January 12, 2025 07:03 PM (0XVad)

2 st!

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 07:03 PM (Wnv9h)

3 Damn it!

Well played, Scoob. Well played.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 07:04 PM (Wnv9h)

4 Good evening everyone

Posted by: Skip at January 12, 2025 07:04 PM (fwDg9)

5 Permanent Record Late!

Posted by: RI Red - will work for money at January 12, 2025 07:05 PM (j7086)

6 Surprised no newsies have pissed and moaned about ammunition going splodey in the residential fires.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for festive little hats at January 12, 2025 07:06 PM (G0bxm)

7 All clear on the line! LET IT FLY!!!

Posted by: Rancherbob at January 12, 2025 07:06 PM (21WHr)

8 Have NOT been to the range.
It's been a Strikeman week.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 12, 2025 07:07 PM (W/lyH)

9 Wow Ed L!!! You have some interesting things in your collection. And the history you bring with them. Thank you!

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at January 12, 2025 07:07 PM (0XVad)

10 Better late then never! Hi all - hope everyone's New Year is still going strong!

Posted by: Lurking in Garland at January 12, 2025 07:07 PM (LDc8l)

11 Good evening gubthreaders and all the ships at sea!

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:08 PM (QfvaV)

12 I'll just leave this here. She's not She Equips Herself or Cake Girl, but she's a local kid opening a gub shop in southern NH, so giving her a shout out. And because tits. Because, Moron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM-KugoRHN4

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 07:08 PM (Wnv9h)

13 Rancherbob, duck!

Posted by: Ben Had at January 12, 2025 07:08 PM (0wWvl)

14 Rancherbob, duck!
Posted by: Ben Had at January 12, 2025 07:08 PM

Wabbit!

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 07:09 PM (Wnv9h)

15 So speaking of M1s.... i found this in my garage in a box of the previous owner's crap....

https://___ur.com/a/S7NiKBe

I have.... questions.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 07:09 PM (+iIV1)

16 Trigger pull. Trigger pull. Trigger pull.

Right hand, five rounds, left hand five rounds. Repeat. Pull straight back.

Why is it so infuriating?

Posted by: nurse ratched at January 12, 2025 07:09 PM (mT+6a)

17 Surprised no newsies have pissed and moaned about ammunition going splodey in the residential fires.
Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for festive little hats at January 12, 2025 07:06 PM (G0bxm)

As Mrs D pointed out, a lot of people were at school and work. No one home to hear the ammo go off.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 12, 2025 07:10 PM (W/lyH)

18 Tuesday my overpriced Taiwanese T65 parts kit will arrive.

I am hoping it is not totally beat to hell.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 12, 2025 07:11 PM (aD39U)

19 Owen Gregorian @OwenGregorian
Hobbyist Builds AI-Assisted Rifle Robot Using ChatGPT: “We’re under attack from the front left and front right. Respond accordingly” | ZME Science

The viral video sparked ethical debates about the broader implications of AI weapons.

One of the wildest videos to go viral on TikTok recently caught everyone by surprise. It featured an engineer who built his own AI-assisted robot that aims and shoots a rifle using voice commands.

“ChatGPT, we’re under attack from the front left and front right. Respond accordingly,” the inventor, known only by his online moniker STS 3D, declares calmly.

The rifle, mounted on a robotic arm, pivots instantly. It swivels left, then right, firing a barrage of blanks precisely as instructed. A voice, eerily polite, responds: “If you need any further assistance, just let me know.”

https://tinyurl.com/34ufnxwd
1:22 minutes video too; much more at the link

Posted by: andycanuck (iMpf5) at January 12, 2025 07:11 PM (iMpf5)

20 I'm not done with the cataract surgery healing (not to mention the Left eye was gifted an infection after surgery) so it'll be a bit longer before I make it to some range time. I have the sads.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 12, 2025 07:11 PM (1geya)

21 RMBS. Yup, bewbs.

Posted by: RI Red - will work for money at January 12, 2025 07:11 PM (j7086)

22 So speaking of M1s.... i found this in my garage in a box of the previous owner's crap....

https://___ur.com/a/S7NiKBe

I have.... questions.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 07:09 PM (+iIV1)

(It's im gur. No space. I'm a luddite. Don't ask me to find a different photo sharing thingy, who knows what horrors I'd stumble into...)

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 07:12 PM (+iIV1)

23 https://___ur.com/a/S7NiKBe

Address... Not found

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for festive little hats at January 12, 2025 07:12 PM (DUkZq)

24 EdL, very interesting PDW and a great writer up. Cool.

Posted by: scampydog at January 12, 2025 07:13 PM (41CYW)

25 Write

Posted by: scampydog at January 12, 2025 07:13 PM (41CYW)

26 16 Trigger pull. Trigger pull. Trigger pull.

Right hand, five rounds, left hand five rounds. Repeat. Pull straight back.

Why is it so infuriating?

Posted by: nurse ratched at January 12, 2025 07:09 PM

Because the vast majority of the populace in Seattle works very hard to make sure nothing goes straight down the middle?

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at January 12, 2025 07:13 PM (HlyYF)

27 Four-hour workdays?

What are you, some kind of workaholic?

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at January 12, 2025 07:13 PM (BpYfr)

28 RancherBob!

Good evening, good sir!

Posted by: nurse ratched at January 12, 2025 07:13 PM (mT+6a)

29 RMBS. Yup, bewbs.
Posted by: RI Red - will work for money at January 12, 2025 07:11 PM

Yup. Lots of other fun videos, too. She needs work on her fundamentals. I'm close by. I volunteer. 'Cause I'm a giver.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 07:14 PM (Wnv9h)

30 Commissar there are some good videos of experiments done by the ..... fire chiefs' association? ..... anyway someone like that. They stacked up various kinds of ammo in varying situations (open, covered, inside a structure) and set it all afire to see what happened (fun work, except for wasting all that ammo I guess).

As I recall, not a lot happened. Most ammo in most fire conditions sort of "pops", ejecting the projectile. But the propellant is not ignited by a primer in the normal manner, and there's no chamber enclosing the case, so most of the pressure goes to expanding the metal case. Thus, a weak "pop" of the bullet.

Recall that none of the popping ammo tested powered a projectile at velocities that would penetrate the normal fire-fighting suits (forget the name for those).

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 07:14 PM (1m82a)

31 Address... Not found
Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for festive little hats at January 12, 2025 07:12 PM (DUkZq)

Yeah, sorry... replace the underscores with i m g, no spaces

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 07:14 PM (+iIV1)

32 12 Bewbs.........nothing wrong with it, and she is right about the laws!!

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at January 12, 2025 07:15 PM (0XVad)

33 Ed L, nice write-up.
Is the P320 firing through just its own barrel?

Posted by: RI Red - will work for money at January 12, 2025 07:15 PM (j7086)

34 Does "K9" signify the silhouette target's balls??

Posted by: andycanuck (iMpf5) at January 12, 2025 07:15 PM (iMpf5)

35 Bewbs.........nothing wrong with it, and she is right about the laws!!
Posted by: Scuba_Dude at January 12, 2025 07:15 PM

Yup. Masshole who made her escape. I'm still working on it.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 07:16 PM (Wnv9h)

36 Today at the range I brought some new 2Amend 34 round Glock mags for the EP9 to try out. I had some other non-Glock extended mags and they, well, all failed at some level. Mainly jamming up their springs along the way.

These worked great EXCEPT they lock the bolt back with one round left in the mag. Comparing to a PMAG 17 looks like follower rides a bit too high and the bolt catch, err, catches with one round left.

Anyone with similar experiences? Suggested fixes?

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:16 PM (QfvaV)

37 In this month's American Rifleman, there's an article that focuses on the M1 Carbine. It's a good read.

Posted by: WitchDoktor at January 12, 2025 07:16 PM (HfpuP)

38 Eight bullets in a clip, seven blank

7 warning shots and a told you so?

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for festive little hats at January 12, 2025 07:17 PM (DUkZq)

39 And Weasel posted photos of my fire-chief reco'd powder/ammo magazine wooden box waaaay back right on thisa here thread. Just 2X4s, loosely packed, to slow the heating of the contents, and prevent any blow-ups via loose cover and open construction to dissipate pressure.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 07:18 PM (1m82a)

40 EdL that's an interesting contraption. And as always an excellent write-up.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 07:18 PM (1m82a)

41 Eight bullets in a clip, seven blank

Launching rifle grenades and a yer too close?

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for festive little hats at January 12, 2025 07:18 PM (DUkZq)

42 12 I'll just leave this here. She's not She Equips Herself or Cake Girl, but she's a local kid opening a gub shop in southern NH, so giving her a shout out. And because tits. Because, Moron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM-KugoRHN4
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 07:08 PM (Wnv9h)

Seems like she understands her audience.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:19 PM (QfvaV)

43 Posted by: Ben Had
Good evening

Posted by: Rancherbob at January 12, 2025 07:20 PM (21WHr)

44 Range duty day later this week, could be interesting. High fire danger, isolated location. Had a fire not all that far away once a few years ago, we just kept an eye on it - as members/customers nervously sought advice. If there's no high wind, things don't generally move that fast.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 07:20 PM (1m82a)

45 Launching rifle grenades and a yer too close?
Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for festive little hats at January 12, 2025 07:18 PM (DUkZq)

That kinda sounds right.

......

And Warai-onna just said "are we gonna find a grenade, now?"

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 07:20 PM (+iIV1)

46 Seems like she understands her audience.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:19 PM

We're simple creatures, really.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 07:21 PM (Wnv9h)

47 Good evening all. Great content Weasel!

Posted by: Rancherbob at January 12, 2025 07:22 PM (21WHr)

48 The color commentator, whoever he is, for the Packers/Eagles game, is an insipid idiot.

I prefer silence.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at January 12, 2025 07:23 PM (ufFY8)

49 If I get one request a week for B-17 propeller installation guidance, I must get a dozen, so here you go.

B-17? What about the requests for B-29 and B-36 propeller installation guidance? I know you must be receiving those, because are discussed much more often around the TxMoMe campfire than B-17s.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 07:23 PM (a3Q+t)

50 My brother in law said "maybe someone doesn't understand how Russian roulette works".

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 07:23 PM (+iIV1)

51 Posted by: Rancherbob at January 12, 2025 07:22 PM (21WHr)
-----
Howdy Rb!

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 07:23 PM (L4WDc)

52 replace with capital IMG

https://IMGur.com/a/S7NiKBe

Posted by: Someday I'll choose a nick and stick with it. at January 12, 2025 07:23 PM (89Sog)

53 Seems like she understands her audience.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:19 PM

We're simple creatures, really.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 07:21 PM (Wnv9h)

If you got tit, flaunt tit.

Posted by: RI Red - will work for money at January 12, 2025 07:24 PM (j7086)

54 Commissar there are some good videos of experiments done by the ..... fire chiefs' association? ..... anyway someone like that. They stacked up various kinds of ammo in varying situations (open, covered, inside a structure) and set it all afire to see what happened (fun work, except for wasting all that ammo I guess).
====
Here it is. I bookmarked it. It only burns without the tight confines of e.g. a barrel to 'condense' the gases.

I know 'condensed' isn't the right word but the lockdown effed-up my brain/vocabulary memory.

https://tinyurl.com/yt6yrjzh
25:46 minutes

845,399 views Nov 28, 2012 #firearms #LetsGoShooting #ammunition
What happens when ammo cartridges burn? This video was created to educate and inform fire departments nationwide and to help firefighters better address the realities of fires in which sporting ammunition is present. The video was produced by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI), the standards-setting organization for the industry. Learn more about firearm and ammunition standards and safety at https://saami.org/

Posted by: andycanuck (iMpf5) at January 12, 2025 07:24 PM (iMpf5)

55 Posted by: Someday I'll choose a nick and stick with it. at January 12, 2025 07:23 PM (89Sog)

Thanks!

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 07:24 PM (+iIV1)

56 Thanks!
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 07:24 PM (+iIV1)

You are welcome.

Posted by: Someday I'll choose a nick and stick with it. at January 12, 2025 07:25 PM (89Sog)

57 RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 07:08

She seems to be a keeper

Posted by: Skip at January 12, 2025 07:25 PM (fwDg9)

58 not a lot happened.

That's my point. Hasn't stopped the press blaming hunters for fires "caused by ricochets". The press that reports a truck running off the road into a "waterway" (a ditch!)

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for festive little hats at January 12, 2025 07:25 PM (nbo+T)

59 Hello, Weasel!

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 07:25 PM (AiJK3)

60
I think Gen. Hatcher did some experiments in burning ammo too.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at January 12, 2025 07:26 PM (cY18j)

61 Howdy EdL!

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 07:26 PM (L4WDc)

62 Trigger pull. Trigger pull. Trigger pull.

Right hand, five rounds, left hand five rounds. Repeat. Pull straight back.

Why is it so infuriating?
Posted by: nurse ratched at January 12, 2025 07:09 PM

Because you're using a plastic wondernine? CBD has tried to coach you concerning the superior trigger pull of the 1911 platform repeatedly, IIRC.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 07:26 PM (a3Q+t)

63 s the P320 firing through just its own barrel?
Posted by: RI Red - will work for money at January 12, 2025 07:15 PM (j7086)

Correct. The donor P320 platform provides its slide, barrel, and fire control unit (FCU) to make the BWC-9 fully operational.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 07:27 PM (AiJK3)

64 I left this description of the Cigar Hut at the end of the Food Thread.

320 Check out the Eskimo QuickFish2. 25 sq ft of smoking comfort! I added a propane heater, exhaust fan, lights, a small table and a comfy chair. It's rather civilized!
Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 06:59 PM (lG3Q4)

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 07:28 PM (L4WDc)

65 Good Sunday evening, gub 'ettes and 'rons, and a four-hour workday greeting to our overworked host Weasel!

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at January 12, 2025 07:29 PM (v23vE)

66
Tomorrow night, there's going to be a lunar occultation of Mars which will be visible over the entire continental US. The full Wolf Moon is going to devour Mars.

For those out west, it will be low on the horizon, not too long after moonrise, and those right on the west coast may be a little before moonrise. Anyway, here's a page, and if it works right, it should give you the time for your location:

https://tinyurl.com/24y4dxrr

Incidentally, Mars is at perigee, and is thus the brightest tonight.

Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at January 12, 2025 07:29 PM (w6EFb)

67 Who wouldn't want one of these?

https://tinyurl.com/2he3dfbj

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 12, 2025 07:29 PM (aD39U)

68 Howdy!

Posted by: Puddleglum, drive by pew pew at January 12, 2025 07:30 PM (sAmhv)

69 Ha! It is Tom Brady, the insipid idiot.

Stick to throwing brown balls, and enjoy your money.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at January 12, 2025 07:31 PM (ufFY8)

70 EdL that's an interesting contraption. And as always an excellent write-up.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 07:18 PM (1m82a)

B&T has this available for order on their website. If you want to use something different, Magpul and ZEV Industries will drop their version (FDP/FDC-9) before too much longer (hopefully). This will use a Glock 17/19 as the base firearm the rest of the weapon is built around.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 07:31 PM (AiJK3)

71 Looks like grenade launcher rounds are crimped on the end. These aren't. I don't know what these are for, and if they're just blanks, why there's one live bullet mixed in. That seems like the kind of thing one doesn't do...

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 07:32 PM (+iIV1)

72 Incidentally, Mars is at perigee, and is thus the brightest tonight.
Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at January 12, 2025 07:29 PM (w6EFb)

Isn't this about the time the Martians launch their ships at us? I seem to recall H.G. Wells writing about this.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at January 12, 2025 07:32 PM (ufFY8)

73 Sorry I'm late! I had to run to catch up.

Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at January 12, 2025 07:33 PM (Hdixl)

74 I'll just leave this here. She's not She Equips Herself or Cake Girl, but she's a local kid opening a gub shop in southern NH, so giving her a shout out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM-KugoRHN4
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 07:08 PM

I always have 2 or 3 large bandanas in my range bag for shooters dressed like that to help prevent hot brass from distracting their focus.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 07:33 PM (a3Q+t)

75 Back to my second favorite thing - Gubs.
I’ve been breaking in my Garmin Chrono (and it’s the Titz!)
Last week I was doing three shot groups on 4 different loads of 6.5, then the same thing suppressed.
I don’t know if the sample is adequate enough to make a claim, but the suppressed rounds were roughly half the standard deviation and extreme spread.
I think I need a larger sample size.

Posted by: RI Red - will work for money at January 12, 2025 07:33 PM (j7086)

76 That folding gun thing is amazing.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at January 12, 2025 07:33 PM (CHHv1)

77 https://tinyurl.com/2he3dfbj
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 12, 2025 07:29 PM (aD39U)

That would look great in my office/study/library one I've gotten around to making an office/study/library.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 07:33 PM (+iIV1)

78 No range report this week.

Was intending to use self-propelled deer shaped targets this week but the roads to the farm were impassable.

Freezing rain, then 4" of snow, then temps to 33F, then 5" of snow, then freezing drizzle is NOT a good combination.

I guess the only good news is that my "wildfire danger index" is currently measuring a zero.

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at January 12, 2025 07:34 PM (HlyYF)

79 "That seems like the kind of thing one doesn't do... "

unless one is alec baldwin ...

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at January 12, 2025 07:34 PM (cY18j)

80 44 Range duty day later this week, could be interesting. High fire danger, isolated location. Had a fire not all that far away once a few years ago, we just kept an eye on it - as members/customers nervously sought advice. If there's no high wind, things don't generally move that fast.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 07:20 PM (1m82a)

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away I was running a range - an explosive range. Doing practice shots with 1/4 blocks of C4. Boom. Boom. RANGE FIRE. Boom.

Someone - probably me - was supposed to be keeping track of how many booms had gone. Because you can't run down to put out the fire while explosives are going off.

It was a fun day. We used up all the fire extinguishers on the trucks. When we ordered replacements, they had a fue in date some 5 years in the future. Which made us not operationally ready. Which made our higher HQ not operationally ready. Which earned me a visit in front of the Colonel's desk to explain why I had not stolen fire extinguishers from the Air Force.

Good times, good times.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:34 PM (QfvaV)

81 Isn't this about the time the Martians launch their ships at us? I seem to recall H.G. Wells writing about this.
Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at January 12, 2025 07:32 PM (ufFY

If you're already at perigee your hohman transfer function is borked. Plenty of time to prepare for next year though.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 07:35 PM (+iIV1)

82 Check out the Eskimo QuickFish2. 25 sq ft of smoking comfort! I added a propane heater, exhaust fan, lights, a small table and a comfy chair. It's rather civilized!
Posted by: Weasel

Evening, Weasel. Are the pooches allowed to stay in the tent and inhale with you?

Posted by: RI Red - will work for money at January 12, 2025 07:36 PM (j7086)

83 Doing practice shots with 1/4 blocks of C4.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:34 PM

Pro Tip: A marble of C4 can be ignited and used as a field-expedient C-Rat heat source.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 07:38 PM (a3Q+t)

84 Doing practice shots with 1/4 blocks of C4.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:34 PM

Pro Tip: A marble of C4 can be ignited and used as a field-expedient C-Rat heat source.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 07:38 PM (a3Q+t)

85 Good evening Horde. Thanks Weasel and thanks Ed L.

A flu bug has us in sub-optimal operational posture here, so no range visits. Current firepower provided by Vicks and Halls.

Posted by: TRex at January 12, 2025 07:38 PM (IQ6Gq)

86 Posted by: RI Red - will work for money at January 12, 2025 07:36 PM (j7086)
-----
Nah. Too smoky for them, plus the heater makes a hissy noise.

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 07:39 PM (L4WDc)

87 Don't know why Pixy duped my comment.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 07:39 PM (a3Q+t)

88 Did a quick search to see how the old optical rangefinders worked.

Found this pretty nice YT video that is just over a minute long if anyone wants to see the old naval gun rangefinder operations.

https://tinyurl.com/2keyjvdb

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at January 12, 2025 07:39 PM (HlyYF)

89 Scuba Dude, you could theoretically get that BWC-9 chassis since it's not a firearm until you install the FCU in it. Does NY still stand in your way with their rules?

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 07:40 PM (AiJK3)

90 >> Isn't this about the time the Martians launch their ships at us? I seem to recall H.G. Wells writing about this.

Look up the Hohman transfer orbits to and from Mars. To launch from earth to Mars, you need to launch a bit before perigee/opposition. The last window was in Oct. Coming back, the timing is the same, but backwards.

You can find animations of this online.

Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at January 12, 2025 07:40 PM (w6EFb)

91 Pro Tip: A marble of C4 can be ignited and used as a field-expedient C-Rat heat source.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 07:38 PM (a3Q+t)

Do NOT try to stomp out the fire.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:40 PM (QfvaV)

92 Because you're using a plastic wondernine? CBD has tried to coach you concerning the superior trigger pull of the 1911 platform repeatedly, IIRC.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 07:26 PM (a3Q+t)
---
Traditional single-action trigger on an all-steel frame is more accurate, period. We can argue utility of DA/SA or striker in combat/carry situations, but the real deal is where it's at.

1911s aren't the only offerings, btw. I know, heresy!

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 07:40 PM (ZOv7s)

93 Yay gun thread! No range time due to fireproof snowfalls.

Tonight we got the Christmas stuff put away and this marks the longest period without having something on the table in a state of disassembly in many years.

I may not get range time, but that Carcano needs some work.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 07:42 PM (ZOv7s)

94 Look up the Hohman transfer orbits to and from Mars. To launch from earth to Mars, you need to launch a bit before perigee/opposition. The last window was in Oct. Coming back, the timing is the same, but backwards.

You can find animations of this online.
Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at January 12, 2025 07:40 PM (w6EFb)

On the face of your Starlink antenna is a diagram of a Hohman transfer orbit.

I think Elon's serious about the Mars thing.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:42 PM (QfvaV)

95 Bought a FPC in Nov. S&W FPC .9mm. have not had a chance to test drive it yet. The one posted above is impressive but out of my price range.

Posted by: Puddleglum, drive by pew pew at January 12, 2025 07:42 PM (sAmhv)

96 1911s aren't the only offerings, btw. I know, heresy!
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 07:40 PM

Come now. P-35s are not considered schismatic.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 07:43 PM (a3Q+t)

97 Pro Tip: A marble of C4 can be ignited and used as a field-expedient C-Rat heat source.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 07:38 PM (a3Q+t)

Seen it done in 1991 during Operation Desert Storm. I suspect that's why MRE heaters were introduced PDQ. Can't have GI Joe pilfering C-4 in order to heat their MRE's for each meal.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 07:44 PM (AiJK3)

98 Pro Tip: A marble of C4 can be ignited and used as a field-expedient C-Rat heat source.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 07:38 PM (a3Q+t)

Do NOT try to stomp out the fire.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:40 PM (QfvaV)
---
Office mate who was former combat engineer talked about a time bored soldiers (always dangerous) egged each other on to eat some C4. Finally someone did it, got sick, was rushed to the clinic where he puked upon debarking.

EOD has to be called in to clean up the vomit, and of course before that could happen the whole area was marked off with tape.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 07:45 PM (ZOv7s)

99 The original folding pistol thingy was the Magpul FMG-9 which was Folding Machine Gun in 9mm.

Too bad those are not available.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:46 PM (QfvaV)

100 Do NOT try to stomp out the fire.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:40 PM

^^^ This.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 07:46 PM (Wnv9h)

101 Puddleglum, do you feel ok?
It’s not normal to have a new toy and not shoot it for over a month!
Especially, the FPC!

Posted by: RI Red - will work for money at January 12, 2025 07:46 PM (j7086)

102 DIG. That’s why we watch sports muted. Drives family members crazy, oh well.

Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at January 12, 2025 07:46 PM (2NHgQ)

103 I'll just leave this here. She's not She Equips Herself or Cake Girl, but she's a local kid opening a gub shop in southern NH, so giving her a shout out. And because tits. Because, Moron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM-KugoRHN4
Posted by: RedMindBlueState

Nice brass trap.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at January 12, 2025 07:46 PM (/lPRQ)

104 Seen it done in 1991 during Operation Desert Storm. I suspect that's why MRE heaters were introduced PDQ. Can't have GI Joe pilfering C-4 in order to heat their MRE's for each meal.
Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 07:44 PM (AiJK3)
---
Another reason was the heater blocks looked exactly like Starburst-type candies, and half-asleep GIs might pop one in without reading the DO NOT EAT in the dark.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 07:47 PM (ZOv7s)

105 Office mate who was former combat engineer talked about a time bored soldiers (always dangerous) egged each other on to eat some C4. Finally someone did it, got sick, was rushed to the clinic where he puked upon debarking.

EOD has to be called in to clean up the vomit, and of course before that could happen the whole area was marked off with tape.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 07:45 PM (ZOv7s)

The RDX will get you high. And also poison you.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:47 PM (QfvaV)

106 I used this week's snow event to advantage, by cleaning all the handguns my son, grandson and I fired when they visited me at the farm after New Year's. Starting to like that Ballistol smell almost as much as Hoppe's #9. Also sized and de-primed 100 rounds of .38 Special brass. I got some dual-ended wadcutters from Berry's Bullets that I want to try out.

Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at January 12, 2025 07:48 PM (Hdixl)

107 Do NOT try to stomp out the fire.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:40 PM

^^^ This.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 07:46 PM

So ... we shouldn't use it to replace the dog poop in the brown paper bag?

Posted by: Neighborhood teenagers at January 12, 2025 07:49 PM (a3Q+t)

108 Bought a FPC in Nov. S&W FPC .9mm. have not had a chance to test drive it yet. The one posted above is impressive but out of my price range.
Posted by: Puddleglum, drive by pew pew at January 12, 2025 07:42 PM (sAmhv)

B&T is a Swiss outfit. They make good stuff that happens to be cool. But when was the last time you heard of the Swiss making stuff for cheap? B&T is known for making short production runs of really quirky, unique products that no one else thinks of. Those R&D costs have to be recovered in only a few units of production. Some production runs are as few as, or less than, 200 units total. That really drives up the unit cost That's why I think the price is the biggest downside.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 07:50 PM (AiJK3)

109 Wow. That BWC-9 is making the fit of my pants kinda uncomfortable. Thanks for the write up, Ed L.

Posted by: Semper Why at January 12, 2025 07:50 PM (nKug+)

110 320 Check out the Eskimo QuickFish2. 25 sq ft of smoking comfort! I added a propane heater, exhaust fan, lights, a small table and a comfy chair. It's rather civilized!
Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 06:59 PM (lG3Q4)

Where does this get deployed? Back yard? Back porch? Corner of the living room?

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:51 PM (QfvaV)

111 101: Heh! I'm fine, RI. Living in Soviet NoVA, you deal with lots of traffic. It's unmotivating. The nearest range is easy to get to by Babylon DC standards. Depends on the time of day.

Posted by: Puddleglum, drive by pew pew at January 12, 2025 07:51 PM (sAmhv)

112 I am so old that the MREs we were given did not have the li'l Tabasco sauce vial. that would have made things a bit more bearable.

Also, the white cheese was way better than the chalky yellow cheese. Also, also, the crackers made me mutter "cram" every time.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, random is my middle name at January 12, 2025 07:53 PM (Ad8y9)

113 Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:51 PM (QfvaV)
---
Just outside the back door on the deck.

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 07:53 PM (L4WDc)

114 I have not been to the range in over a month. All I've been doing lately is loading ammo. A lot.

750 rounds of 9mm, 400 rounds of 300 BLK subsonic, 100 rounds of 300BLK for "social situations", 200 rounds of match .243 Win and a lot of brass prep. I should make it to the range next weekend for testing.

Posted by: Semper Why at January 12, 2025 07:55 PM (nKug+)

115 Just outside the back door on the deck.
Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 07:53 PM

Has this structure been inspected and signed-off on, and a Certificate of Occupancy issued by WW, FSJ, and Miss G?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 07:56 PM (a3Q+t)

116 cram, LOL

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at January 12, 2025 07:56 PM (cY18j)

117 I am so old that the MREs we were given did not have the li'l Tabasco sauce vial. that would have made things a bit more bearable.
Posted by: Pug Mahon, random is my middle name at January 12, 2025 07:53 PM (Ad8y9)

Heh. My first WesPac deployment, we ate C rations with a manufacture date of 1957.
Get off my lawn.

Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at January 12, 2025 07:56 PM (Hdixl)

118 Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 07:46 PM (QfvaV)

Hopefully Magpul and ZEV Industries will give an update about their FDC-9/FDP-9 project at the 2008 SHOT Show. This is a semi-auto SBR meant to bring the FMG-9 concept from 2008 into the production stage from the prototype originally exhibited at SHOT 2008. Unlike the B&Y BWC-9, Magpul and ZEV will sell this as an SBR. For that reason, it may not be as easy to acquire as a BWC-9.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 07:56 PM (AiJK3)

119 The current FTCC is 332. Best pick it up.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 07:58 PM (a3Q+t)

120 Hi Weasel
Sorry I'm late but my internet was down.
Brief range report. Small group. Blaster, Sra Blaster , Ed L and me. I brought my two Glocks anticipating shooting some of Ed's and Blaster's. Hit the target just fine but had a few jams.Turns out my Glocks only like 115 grain Blazer. But some of the Blazer was bad. Glad it wasn;t me. Also, guns need to be cleaned so that is my next task.
Blaster's EP9 was fun and easy to shoot. Also shot Ed's 007 gun although almost impossible to see the sight. Maybe try point and shoot next time.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at January 12, 2025 07:59 PM (t/2Uw)

121 I'm not done with the cataract surgery healing (not to mention the Left eye was gifted an infection after surgery) so it'll be a bit longer before I make it to some range time. I have the sads.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 12, 2025 07:11 PM (1geya)

Does having the sads preclude you stopping by and having a beer? Because you would be most welcome.

I just lit the firepit to cook a steak.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 12, 2025 07:59 PM (8zz6B)

122 Wow. That BWC-9 is making the fit of my pants kinda uncomfortable. Thanks for the write up, Ed L.
Posted by: Semper Why at January 12, 2025 07:50 PM (nKug+)

You can order one on B&T's website right now if you want (rubs hands together w/ evil grin).

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 07:59 PM (AiJK3)

123 Bill in Colorado legislature right now would ban all firearms with a detachable magazine

Posted by: Don Black at January 12, 2025 07:59 PM (AOsQT)

124 Heh. My first WesPac deployment, we ate C rations with a manufacture date of 1957.
Get off my lawn.
Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at January 12, 2025 07:56 PM (Hdixl)
---
I inherited a canned biscuit from WW II. Also gaiters. Weird stuff people save.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 08:00 PM (ZOv7s)

125 Bill in Colorado legislature right now would ban all firearms with a detachable magazine
Posted by: Don Black at January 12, 2025 07:59 PM

Kill bill.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 08:01 PM (Wnv9h)

126 When I was a kid I had a Crossman M1 Carbine pump BB gun. I'd shoot cicadas out of the trees which is one way I became a decent shot. I loved that gun and platform. About seven years ago CMP got some Carbines in from Korea, I put in for the lottery and got one. She (the receiver) was made by Winchester in Feb of 1945, rebuilt in 1955 or 57. Beat up but good throat and still accurate. I love it Fun and easy to shoot. She's a great close in rifle.

Posted by: JML at January 12, 2025 08:02 PM (PaIe3)

127 Bill in Colorado legislature right now would ban all firearms with a detachable magazine
Posted by: Don Black at January 12, 2025 07:59 PM (AOsQT)
---
It is vaguely amusing how people who insist that European gun laws are the solution to violence have no idea what they actually are.

But at this late, date, no one cares about that. The goal is punishing certain people.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 08:03 PM (ZOv7s)

128 Has this structure been inspected and signed-off on, and a Certificate of Occupancy issued by WW, FSJ, and Miss G?
Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 07:56 PM (a3Q+t)
----
I thought WW might be a tough sell since it takes up about 1/4 of the deck, but she was fine with it. Doggos have been eyeing it suspiciously.

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 08:04 PM (lG3Q4)

129 I inherited a canned biscuit from WW II.
---------
Hardtack!

Posted by: andycanuck (iMpf5) at January 12, 2025 08:05 PM (iMpf5)

130 I brought a new Walther PPK/S in .32 ACP to this week's DMV MGC outing today. This is a new release from Walther bringing back the .32 ACP chambering of the PPK for the first time in over 25-30 years. .32 ACP is much more pleasant to shoot in the PPK than .380 ACP is. I think this PPK in .32 ACP might even be a good handgun for newbies to try because of the very mild recoil. Shooting one handed like 007 in the famous gunbarrel sequence is quite doable. As Sharon noted above, the sights really stink. It will require a lot of practice to pick them up and use them effectively. The new PPK's ergonomics are pretty good. The 2024 redesign should get rid of the slide bite problems shooters have with older PPKs. The .32 ACP's days as defense cartridge might be over, but it's still a ton of fun to shoot.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 08:08 PM (AiJK3)

131 30 rhomboid - That makes sense from a basic physics perspective. Heavy projectile vs light brass case. In the event of rapidly expanding gasses you will end up with a split case (most likely) or a flying empty case and a relatively stationary projectile. Without a chamber to contain the pressure and a bolt face to keep the case from moving the other direction, that bullet is going nowhere.

Posted by: Semper Why at January 12, 2025 08:09 PM (nKug+)

132 I've been watching lots of auctions and sales, and I'm not seeing much stuff moving. I think we're going to see some price reductions soon. My inbox is clogged with clearance offers for ammo.

Not planning on making a move until March, and how things are by then will dictate what I do.

The firearms market is highly segmented, and does not move in unison. I think the modern/current production stuff will drop first, but it's also possible that folks will decide to back off on antique/surplus with the threat of federal gun bans off the table.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 08:09 PM (ZOv7s)

133 The .32 ACP's days as defense cartridge might be over, but it's still a ton of fun to shoot.
Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 08:08 PM (AiJK3)
---
I think they are just beginning. It's a great cartridge and perfect for people with smaller grips and more sensitivity to recoil and muzzle blast. Multiple armies used them, many police still do. Shot placement is king.

When I saw those were coming out, I was immediately intrigued. I have a PP in .32 ACP and it shoots like a dream. Total tack hammer.

I may pick one up if circumstances align properly.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 08:12 PM (ZOv7s)

134 I inherited a canned biscuit from WW II. Also gaiters. Weird stuff people save.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 08:00 PM (ZOv7s)

The Steve1989MRE YouTube channel features the host sampling all sorts of different military rations from all over the world from the late 1800s to today. I think the oldest one he tried to eat was some Spanish American War era hardtack. Scary stuff.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 08:12 PM (AiJK3)

135 Good evening and thanks gain, Weasel.

Speaking of old food, one of the high schools I worked at had a fallout shelter that had been converted into the computer tech room, complete with fallout shelter rations, circa 1960.

It was interesting.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at January 12, 2025 08:13 PM (tT6L1)

136 Have a great evening everyone

Posted by: Skip at January 12, 2025 08:14 PM (fwDg9)

137 Bill in Colorado legislature right now would ban all firearms with a detachable magazine
------
Kill bill.

It's obviously unconstitutional per Bruen but until legislators are made to pay some kind of price for passing laws that they know are unconstitutional, there will be no end to the BS.

Posted by: Oddbob at January 12, 2025 08:14 PM (/y8xj)

138 The Steve1989MRE YouTube channel features the host sampling all sorts of different military rations from all over the world from the late 1800s to today. I think the oldest one he tried to eat was some Spanish American War era hardtack. Scary stuff.
Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 08:12 PM (AiJK3)
---
I've seen some of his videos.

When I was in college a friend took me to a Civil War event and kitted me out as bugler. We dined on homemade hard tack and because I was a stranger (and unbiased), I was chosen to serve on a three judge panel to select the best version. We rated them on flavor, hardness, and tensile strength. One of them actually marked the test rock, which made the producer very proud.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 08:16 PM (ZOv7s)

139 I have a request for ideas for the Horde. I'm going hunting next month in GA for feral hogs. We have in the past had issues where we take a hog but getting the hog back to the SUV is a hell of a chore. I'm looking for ideas on a light & portable drag system to haul a 70-130 lbs dead animal to the vehicle. Suitable for a backpack. Last time was about 0.9 miles which was Not Fun (tm).

I wish I could find a child's roll-up plastic sled but those apparently are out of fashion.

I've done the field dressing thing and that sucked hairy donkey balls. I would rather drag it to the car and drive to the processing station.

Posted by: Semper Why at January 12, 2025 08:16 PM (nKug+)

140 I wish I could find a child's roll-up plastic sled but those apparently are out of fashion.

I've done the field dressing thing and that sucked hairy donkey balls. I would rather drag it to the car and drive to the processing station.
Posted by: Semper Why at January 12, 2025 08:16 PM (nKug+)

Could you invite Hillary's SS detail to come along with you on the hunt?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 12, 2025 08:18 PM (8zz6B)

141 When I saw those were coming out, I was immediately intrigued. I have a PP in .32 ACP and it shoots like a dream. Total tack hammer.

Makes me wonder whatever happened to Moron retropox who had a serious collection of .32s. Say hi if you're out there. Hope you're doing well in any case.

Posted by: Oddbob at January 12, 2025 08:19 PM (/y8xj)

142 So the goggle machine says other people have the next to last round lock back happening with 2Amend 34 rounders.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 08:20 PM (QfvaV)

143 I may pick one up if circumstances align properly.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 08:12 PM (ZOv7s)

I've heard that these new .32 PP/PPKs are much more reliable at feeding hollow point defense ammo. The vintage ones were reliable only w/ FMJ. If that pans out, I think you might be right that .32 ACP could make a comeback against .380 ACP and 9mm. I'll have to get a box of hollow points and test them myself.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 08:22 PM (AiJK3)

144 So, ranger report: First outing with handloads went super groovy. ES of 9, great groups, the whole 9 yards. I was thinking, "wow, this isn't that hard."

Yeah, second trip, yesterday, with some different handloads, large helping of humble pie. Groups were crud as was the ES. (Okay, so my groups were actually about 1.5 MOA. However, for me, that's scattering lead all over the paper)

Anyway, I think I know where the problem is. I'm pretty sure I royally screwed up the resizing process. Hopefully, the next batch fairs better. I also messed up my data collection and realize I now need to write down some of the stuff as I can't depend on the chronograph to give me all the information I need.

Amazing how much screwup there is just going to the range to put a few rounds on target. I did manage some fun, though, There is a 10" plate @ 200 yards, I got that bad boy swinging pretty good. I'd let the plate just about finish coming toward me then send another round, I probably had the plate moving through an 8" arc. Yeah, I'm easily amused. 178 grain bullet @ 2900 fps packs a wallop.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at January 12, 2025 08:23 PM (tT6L1)

145 Colorado is another state which would benefit from being busted back to "territory" status for a while.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at January 12, 2025 08:24 PM (aSDr4)

146 Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at January 12, 2025 08:23 PM (tT6L1)
----
Excellent, grasshopper.

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 08:25 PM (L4WDc)

147 Makes me wonder whatever happened to Moron retropox who had a serious collection of .32s. Say hi if you're out there. Hope you're doing well in any case.
Posted by: Oddbob at January 12, 2025 08:19 PM (/y8xj)
---
Yeah, I feel like I'm invading his space. Maybe we're only allowed one .32 enthusiast at a time.

*shifty eyes*

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 08:25 PM (ZOv7s)

148 andycanuck, thanks, that's it. I thought it was the fire chiefs, but SAAMI.

And Semper Why, exactly. Many of the rounds sort of popped and oozed liquified unburned propellant, as I recall.

Ammo in armored vehicles can behave differently, of course, as we're talking different sort of ammo. And in the MidEast festivities we've seen over the last year or so, there of course have been many spectacular examples of ordnance "cooking off" - but we're talking rockets, which do not behave like 9mikemike in a fire.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 08:25 PM (1m82a)

149 I thought WW might be a tough sell since it takes up about 1/4 of the deck, but she was fine with it. Doggos have been eyeing it suspiciously.
***************
Mighty smart doglets, thinking that's where the animal crackers are stored.....

Posted by: Grateful - the range bag lady at January 12, 2025 08:26 PM (IQ6Gq)

150 Posted by: Grateful - the range bag lady at January 12, 2025 08:26 PM (IQ6Gq)
---
Eyeing it suspiciously at about 40mph as they run out to go to the bathroom and run back in.

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 08:27 PM (L4WDc)

151 I've heard that these new .32 PP/PPKs are much more reliable at feeding hollow point defense ammo. The vintage ones were reliable only w/ FMJ. If that pans out, I think you might be right that .32 ACP could make a comeback against .380 ACP and 9mm. I'll have to get a box of hollow points and test them myself.
Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 08:22 PM (AiJK3)
---
The real strength of .32 is its accuracy and a lot of that comes from the low recoil. My daughters have gravitated to the .32s over the years and are very accurate with them.

It's a virtuous circle: you enjoy shooting more, you spend more time shooting, you get better at shooing.

A lot of American gun culture has been tainted by the quest for maximum possible ballistics, and I think that's a huge mistake. I know several people who tried to push themselves into heavier calibers, didn't have much accuracy, didn't enjoy the punishment, and are now basically doing the "when the moment comes, maybe I'll get lucky" thing.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 08:29 PM (ZOv7s)

152 SAAMI! How I luv ya'! How I luv ya!

Posted by: andycanuck (iMpf5) at January 12, 2025 08:30 PM (iMpf5)

153 Weasel kudos on the cigar tent! As I've mentioned before, it's a thing on some cigar sites. The Cigars Daily group on FarceBook is really into the cigar tent thing. Sounds like you have set up a nice one.

In this milder and mostly peaceful if sometimes fiery clime, I just move up my burning time an hour and don more old sweatshirts/etc, as temps tend to drop quickly after 3. In a rainstorm (I vaguely recall what that is), only option is the garage, but I was dissatisfied with the after-aroma, even with the doors open/cracked and a fan running. Even cigars that have a pleasant "room note" while burning leave a smell like a**, sadly.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 08:31 PM (1m82a)

154 139 I'm looking for ideas on a light & portable drag system to haul a 70-130 lbs dead animal to the vehicle. Suitable for a backpack. I wish I could find a child's roll-up plastic sled but those apparently are out of fashion.

Posted by: Semper Why at January 12, 2025 08:16 PM
***
Heavy duty tarp for the beast. Then rig a harness to wear that clips to a rope to help drag it behind you.

Posted by: TRex at January 12, 2025 08:32 PM (IQ6Gq)

155 Anyway, just a short check in with the gun thread, Ed L, great write up, as usual. Thanks.

Have a good one!

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at January 12, 2025 08:32 PM (tT6L1)

156 Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 08:31 PM (1m82a)
----
I've been thinking of adding some gun art and possibly a plastic potted plant or two.

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 08:33 PM (L4WDc)

157 I wish I could find a child's roll-up plastic sled but those apparently are out of fashion.

Posted by: Semper Why at January 12, 2025 08:16 PM (nKug+)

Isn't there something similar to those that Army medics were issued to drag casualties to a vehicle for evac? You put the wounded person on the "sled," tied them in, and tied the straps to your waist to drag them along while keeping your hands free. I think it's called a combat evacuation sled or something like that. I don't know how big the feral hogs you're hunting are, though.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 08:33 PM (AiJK3)

158 Yeah, blake. I have several recipes for humble pie.

Posted by: RI Red - will work for money at January 12, 2025 08:33 PM (j7086)

159 I think SAAMI did a video for firefighters where they loaded up a semi trailer with small arms ammo and set it afire, to show that it would not result in an Earth-shattering Ka-Boom.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at January 12, 2025 08:34 PM (aSDr4)

160 I know several people who tried to push themselves into heavier calibers, didn't have much accuracy, didn't enjoy the punishment, and are now basically doing the "when the moment comes, maybe I'll get lucky" thing.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd

I can shoot .45 just fine. I shoot 9mm pretty well, too.

.380, in the right pistol is a dream carry for me.

Posted by: nurse ratched at January 12, 2025 08:34 PM (mT+6a)

161 M1 carbine, love it. Have one "real" one (1943 Quality Hardware) and one repro (Kahr/AO), both very fun and easy to shoot. Ballistics with the normal ball round almost identical to 357mag, so a reasonable how-do-you-do at close ranges. Big range appeal (many people wanting a look or to shoot a few rounds), not as much as its big brother M1, but close. Even the Wehrmacht liked their captured ones!

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 08:35 PM (1m82a)

162 Over the weekend I evoked a bit of our history by shooting 3 black powder revolvers, a .44 Army Colt, an 1858 Remington and a Rogers & Spencer. Using these weapons really does illumine the experience of holding part of our heritage just as they were utilized.

Posted by: IRONGRAMPA at January 12, 2025 08:35 PM (hKoQL)

163 148 andycanuck, thanks, that's it. I thought it was the fire chiefs, but SAAMI.

And Semper Why, exactly. Many of the rounds sort of popped and oozed liquified unburned propellant, as I recall.

Ammo in armored vehicles can behave differently, of course, as we're talking different sort of ammo. And in the MidEast festivities we've seen over the last year or so, there of course have been many spectacular examples of ordnance "cooking off" - but we're talking rockets, which do not behave like 9mikemike in a fire.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 08:25 PM (1m82a)
USS Forrestal.

Posted by: Eromero at January 12, 2025 08:36 PM (LHPAg)

164 Tractor Supply has this deer sled. It probably wouldn't care if a hog was on board:

https://tinyurl.com/33pnm29s

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 08:36 PM (QfvaV)

165 A .32 in your pocket beats a double stack 10mm with a red dot sight sitting at home.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at January 12, 2025 08:37 PM (aSDr4)

166 Sportsman's guide has this one which is a rollup which is what was specifically asked for:

https://tinyurl.com/h56d3dzv

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 08:40 PM (QfvaV)

167 My people called them travois.

Posted by: sen elizabeth warren at January 12, 2025 08:40 PM (iMpf5)

168 Training films always make me laugh. Conditions are always perfect when performing any maintenance - no rain, snow, dust, sand, no hostile fire, lack of proper tools, plenty of time, fully rested and training maintainers. Pvt. Schmuckatelli is nowhere to be seen.

Posted by: Tonypete at January 12, 2025 08:40 PM (WXNFJ)

169 Eromero, why do I think I remember those were "Zuni" rockets?

Different explosives of course vary in how easy they are to touch off by other than the customary/designed means (blaster obviously can speak with actual expertise on this).

In DubyaDubya Two, torpedo warheads were an item that destroyers would move to get rid of pronto when the ships were in danger/on fire. But I don't know actually how likely they were to go splodey. Japanese went full YOLO on torpedoes and used O2 fuel for their amazing Long Lances, which was ballsy in itself. Not sure how easily touched off their warheads were.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 08:42 PM (1m82a)

170 Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 08:35 PM (1m82a)

Hey maybe you can solve my mystery. Is there some reason someone would load one real cartridge and seven blanks into a garand clip?

I found a clip like that rummaging around my garage. My prevailing theories are:

- something to do with competition
- war souvenir of someone with an unconsumated vendetta
- rifle grenade clip with the last one for an "Oh shit" contingency plan

My other question is what the hell do i do with it? Take it to the sheriff's office for disposal? I don't figure anybody would want it, would they, but you can't just throw something like that in the trash.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 08:44 PM (+iIV1)

171 Speaking of .32, I got some interesting vintage .32 S&W at a gun show yesterday. It's Winchester .32 "Lesmok" cartridges, about 10 rounds left of a box of 50. White box with a green label that depicts a small top-break revolver.

Reading up on it, "Lesmok" was a trade name for powder that was 80% black powder, and 20% guncotton. Corrosive primers. I am guessing this box is 80 to 100 years old. Winchester last loaded cartridges with Lesmok in 1947, but did not use that box at the time.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 12, 2025 08:44 PM (8zz6B)

172 I can shoot .45 just fine. I shoot 9mm pretty well, too.

.380, in the right pistol is a dream carry for me.
Posted by: nurse ratched at January 12, 2025 08:34 PM (mT+6a)
---
Everyone is different, and ammo performs differently in different platforms. There are sub-sub-sub compact 9mms that are terrible in terms of recoil for what you get on the other end.

They key is do what you have done - you can handle bigger stuff, but you found your niche. There's no reason to "climb the ladder" so that you can pack heavier rounds - .380 will do nicely when put where it needs to go.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 08:44 PM (ZOv7s)

173 A .32 in your pocket beats a double stack 10mm with a red dot sight sitting at home.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at January 12, 2025 08:37 PM (aSDr4)
---
Ease of carry (what the late, great Paul Harrell called "program compliance") is a crucial element of choosing a carry gun. If you choice weight less and has a smaller print than your cell phone, it's harder for you *not* to carry it.

Based on all available information on self defense shootings, it is literally impossible to quantify how many times the attempt failed solely due to an "inadequate" caliber. That stats are simply not that granular.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 08:48 PM (ZOv7s)

174 Warai-toko, hmmm. I can't think of any obvious reasons for a 7 blank/1 normal round clip. Is the normal round a ball round, with a bullet? The others crimped?

First of all I don't know much about the grenade rounds, assume they are also crimped rounds.

As to what to do with it, depends. So you have no use for the clip or the rounds? Know anyone with an M1? That'd be my first choice. Give it to him. Don't know what sort of area you are in - sparsely populated, gun-friendly, etc. That would also affect what to do with it I think.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 08:49 PM (1m82a)

175 In DubyaDubya Two, torpedo warheads were an item that destroyers would move to get rid of pronto when the ships were in danger/on fire. But I don't know actually how likely they were to go splodey.

In the aftermath of the Battle of Midway, two Japanese cruisers were damaged. One elected to immediately toss all its torpedoes over the side, the other didn't. The next day, USN aircraft found them. One cruiser made it home, and the other one did not.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at January 12, 2025 08:49 PM (aSDr4)

176 "Is there some reason someone would load one real cartridge and seven blanks into a garand clip?"

They only had 7 blanks and needed something to hold them in place otherwise they would just fall out of the clip.

Posted by: fd at January 12, 2025 08:50 PM (vFG9F)

177 My other question is what the hell do i do with it? Take it to the sheriff's office for disposal? I don't figure anybody would want it, would they, but you can't just throw something like that in the trash.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 08:44 PM (+iIV1)
---
Keep the clip. Turn in the bullets.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 08:50 PM (ZOv7s)

178 My other question is what the hell do i do with it? Take it to the sheriff's office for disposal? I don't figure anybody would want it, would they, but you can't just throw something like that in the trash.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 08:44 PM (+iIV1)

Can your local range dispose of it? If not, the police can hand it off to their bomb squad for final disposal.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 08:50 PM (AiJK3)

179 fd, good guess!

So Warai you don't have an M1 and thus no use for any of this stuff?

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 08:52 PM (1m82a)

180 You could load that clip either way. Live round first or blanks first.
Choose wisely.

Posted by: fd at January 12, 2025 08:53 PM (vFG9F)

181 Good night all.
Shooting Sundays are the best Sundays.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at January 12, 2025 08:53 PM (t/2Uw)

182 32 ACP is best with fmj, the velocity you are dealing with is too slow for reliable expansion of hollow points. Boutique ammo like 60 gr copper bullet designs at +p can do okay with some expansion but shorter oals of hollow points can occasionally get rimlock causing feeding problems in older design 32 ACP. Shorter concealed carry barrels degrade ballistics more than the older near 4 inch barrels.

Going 32 caliber, the old 32-20 or it's modern equivalent, the 32 H&R magnum are better bets.

Posted by: whig's phone at January 12, 2025 08:53 PM (ctrM5)

183 In DubyaDubya Two, torpedo warheads were an item that destroyers would move to get rid of pronto when the ships were in danger/on fire. But I don't know actually how likely they were to go splodey. Japanese went full YOLO on torpedoes and used O2 fuel for their amazing Long Lances, which was ballsy in itself. Not sure how easily touched off their warheads were.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 08:42 PM (1m82a)
As I recall, some of the 500 and 1000 pound bombs that cooked off on the Forrestal flight deck were from WW II and had been stored outside in the Philippines in hot humid conditions. They were sweating.

Posted by: Eromero at January 12, 2025 08:54 PM (LHPAg)

184 blake @144, an ES of 9? A SD of 9 is pretty good at least for me, an ES of 9 would be incredible.

Posted by: Arch Stanton at January 12, 2025 08:55 PM (YGaj5)

185 Hmm - up there somewhere some discussion of where ammo prices are headed. Seeing more than one place where a case of 9mm is going for under 240 free shipping.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 08:55 PM (QfvaV)

186 Can your local range dispose of it? If not, the police can hand it off to their bomb squad for final disposal.
Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 08:50 PM (AiJK3)

Probably. I was kind of curious if there was something special or some story about it, but yeah I'll just dispose of the cartridges wherever i can and keep the clip as a novelty.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 08:56 PM (+iIV1)

187 Idaho Spud, good example! Mogami and Mikuma.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 08:58 PM (1m82a)

188 I can shoot .45 just fine. I shoot 9mm pretty well, too.

.380, in the right pistol is a dream carry for me.
Posted by: nurse ratched at January 12, 2025 08:34 PM (mT+6a)

Heh.
I've seen Nurse shoot. Caliber don't matter.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 12, 2025 08:58 PM (W/lyH)

189 I was always told that if you come into possession of orphaned ammunition, you are required to purchase a firearm that can fire it. To do otherwise is bad juju.

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 08:58 PM (L4WDc)

190 Good evening all and thanks as always to Weasel.
No Range Time - work, plowing 9” of Global Warming, more work and running away to the Keys for a week with She Whom I Must Obey.
Cool-ish down here bu 60s beats low 20s.

Have a great week everyone!

Coelacanth

Posted by: Coelacanth at January 12, 2025 08:59 PM (OmoAU)

191 So Warai you don't have an M1 and thus no use for any of this stuff?
Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 08:52 PM (1m82a)

No, no use outside of novelty.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 09:00 PM (+iIV1)

192 191 No, no use outside of novelty.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 09:00 PM
***
TX MoMe door prize!

Posted by: TRex at January 12, 2025 09:01 PM (IQ6Gq)

193 189 I was always told that if you come into possession of orphaned ammunition, you are required to purchase a firearm that can fire it. To do otherwise is bad juju.
Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 08:58 PM (L4WDc)

Well shit. Now i gotta buy a Garand AND a 12ga shotgun.....

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 09:01 PM (+iIV1)

194 In DubyaDubya Two, torpedo warheads were an item that destroyers would move to get rid of pronto when the ships were in danger/on fire. But I don't know actually how likely they were to go splodey. Japanese went full YOLO on torpedoes and used O2 fuel for their amazing Long Lances, which was ballsy in itself. Not sure how easily touched off their warheads were.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 08:42 PM (1m82a)

In the Battle of Leyte Gulf, the heavy cruiser Chokai was hit by the USS Samuel B. Roberts (or the escort carrier USS White Plains) in one of her torpedo mounts by a 5" shell. The exploding torpedoes crippled the cruiser, allowing USN Avengers to work the Chokai over to the point where she had to be scuttled. The heavy cruiser Suzuya also took damage in the same battle from a 500 lb. bomb near miss that exploded torpedoes in one of her starboard mounts. This explosion caused uncontrolled fires that led to other torpedoes exploding, resulting in the Suzuya's sinking

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 09:01 PM (AiJK3)

195 Probably. I was kind of curious if there was something special or some story about it, but yeah I'll just dispose of the cartridges wherever i can and keep the clip as a novelty.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 08:56 PM (+iIV1)

Why not hand it off to a local Moron or 'Ette who plans to go to a MoMee with range activities?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 12, 2025 09:01 PM (8zz6B)

196 TX MoMe door prize!
Posted by: TRex at January 12, 2025 09:01 PM (IQ6Gq)

Love it

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 09:02 PM (+iIV1)

197 Can your local range dispose of it? If not, the police can hand it off to their bomb squad for final disposal.
Posted by: Ed L

I've taken a case or two of very old blasting caps to the PD for disposal. They were leaking/corroded and really in bad shape. No, I didn't call them ahead. Why would I?

They quarantined my vehicle for a few hours, and roped off the PD Dept. until the bomb guys removed it.

I was given a stern talking to.

Posted by: Tonypete at January 12, 2025 09:04 PM (WXNFJ)

198 Well shit. Now i gotta buy a Garand AND a 12ga shotgun.....

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 09:01 PM (+iIV1)

Heavy is the crown....

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at January 12, 2025 09:05 PM (QfvaV)

199 Why not hand it off to a local Moron or 'Ette who plans to go to a MoMee with range activities?
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 12, 2025 09:01 PM (8zz6B)

They could use it as a paperweight to hold their notes from blowing away....

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 09:05 PM (+iIV1)

200 I've been watching lots of auctions and sales, and I'm not seeing much stuff moving. I think we're going to see some price reductions soon. My inbox is clogged with clearance offers for ammo.

Not planning on making a move until March, and how things are by then will dictate what I do.

The firearms market is highly segmented, and does not move in unison. I think the modern/current production stuff will drop first, but it's also possible that folks will decide to back off on antique/surplus with the threat of federal gun bans off the table.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd
-----------
Thanks for the info. I have been remiss in following pricing and sales volume over the past year for the older stuff.

Posted by: scampydog at January 12, 2025 09:05 PM (41CYW)

201 Weasel your orphaned ammo rule is correct, but comes with the Not Sure What This S**t Is codicil. In which case disposal is advised.

Original lead RSO I worked with gave me some 54R yellow tip (182g) russki surplus. A few rounds did the "pull trigger/very brief delay/BOOM" thing. Hmmm. Dumped in one of our "dud" cans at the range.

OTOH I did try out some April 1941 civilian 45ACP ammo a guy brought to the range (his father was an Army physician in San Diego throughout the war, odd posting, but anyway the 1911 and ammo were his). Primers had that pre-modern compound that didn't age well, so they were all duds. I tried a few in my 1911 that I was carrying that day.

Being the conscientious recycler that I am, I disassembled the rounds (he gave them to me) and used the cases and bullets. Next time I'll probably not try any sus ammo, but go straight to disassembly and re-use.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 09:06 PM (1m82a)

202 I've been thinking of adding some gun art and possibly a plastic potted plant or two.
Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 08:33 PM (L4WDc)

My neighbor is wintering over in Phoenix. She just sent a pic of a dead cactus she put up on the veranda, next to the pool. WTF???

So, no. Just no.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 12, 2025 09:06 PM (W/lyH)

203 Posted by: Eromero at January 12, 2025 08:54 PM (LHPAg)

The Forrestal's ordinance officer and CO were so concerned about the condition of the bombs that they asked PACFLT for permission to dump them over the side. PACFLT (it's never been made clear to me who) denied that request and ordered them loaded on the next strike mission to "dispose" of that unsafe ordinance.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 09:06 PM (AiJK3)

204 They quarantined my vehicle for a few hours, and roped off the PD Dept. until the bomb guys removed it.

I was given a stern talking to.
Posted by: Tonypete at January 12, 2025 09:04 PM (WXNFJ)
---
Deactivate with water by tossing it into a creek. Problemo solved.

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 09:06 PM (L4WDc)

205 Going 32 caliber, the old 32-20 or it's modern equivalent, the 32 H&R magnum are better bets.
Posted by: whig's phone at January 12, 2025 08:53 PM (ctrM5)
---
Well yes, .32 H&R Mag is the ne plus ultra of carry rounds. And even its prices are falling, down 17 percent since early December.

Most ballistics testing of .32 ACP has used the smallest pistols - Beretta tip-ups, generally, and the hollow point is not effective. The PPk/S has a 3.3 inch barrel, which may be adequate.

I tried some HP through a Yugoslav police pistol (M70) and it did not feed well, so kind of a moot point.

I don't think it makes that much difference because of the HP doesn't open up, it's going to go deeper, so no real loss there. The classic worry is that it opens up and stops without penetrating deep enough.

Which brings us back to .32 mag, which has less recoil than .38 spl but far better performance. And you get an extra round out of the same size frame. What's not to like?

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:07 PM (ZOv7s)

206 Why not hand it off to a local Moron or 'Ette who plans to go to a MoMee with range activities?

Did you look at the picture? Those cases and clip are nowhere close to fireable condition.

Posted by: Oddbob at January 12, 2025 09:07 PM (/y8xj)

207 Frankly, if recoil shy, a 38 Snubbie revolver with full wadcutters of swaged lead gives about the same recoil as a 32 ACP using a steel framed or polymer frame. Usually stellar accuracy plus easier to find ammo.

I have several 32 caliber revolvers in solid frames in 32 S&W Long and 32-20, nice well behaved cartridges but if I had to choose between a 38 with wadcutters versus a 32 S&W long (close to 32 ACP ballistics with slightly heavier bullets with better bullet profiles), I would choose the 38. 32-20 is a step up but very hard to get brass or loaded cartridges nowadays and a pita to reload. That being said a 32-20 or a 32 H&R is about par with a 38 using wadcutters at least. Not nearly as good as a 38 loaded with premium +p self defense ammo in a Snubbie or bigger as long as you stay away from alloy framed ones.

Posted by: whig's phone at January 12, 2025 09:07 PM (ctrM5)

208 Tonight - that's midnight Central time.

Blue Origin - New Glenn - Maiden Flight DarkSky-1
LC-36 - CCSFS - Space Affairs Live
Launch Date: January 13, 2025
Blue Origin shifted the NG-1 launch by one day, now January 13.
The 3 hour launch window will start at 12:00 a.m. CT, 1:00 a.m. ET, 0600 UTC, 07:00 CET. Reasons are the unfavourable sea conditions at recovery ship site.
Launch Window: Open til 3:00 a.m. CT

https://www.youtube.com/live/ZDveJnU0Z7Y

Posted by: Ciampino - several launches next few days at January 12, 2025 09:08 PM (i0xsb)

209 Weasel posted a pic of one of those 45ACP ammo boxes here for a "name that ammo" thing. Still have one on the reloading bench, as decoration.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 09:09 PM (1m82a)

210 I was always told that if you come into possession of orphaned ammunition, you are required to purchase a firearm that can fire it. To do otherwise is bad juju.
Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 08:58 PM (L4WDc)
---
Especially if it's .41 Magnum!

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:09 PM (ZOv7s)

211 Punching out. Thanks for another great Gub Thread, Weasel.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 09:11 PM (Wnv9h)

212 EdL that's right, forgot about Chokai.

What I'm curious about is whether the 02 fuel for the Type 93 torpedoes was ever known to have figured in the destruction of any Japanese destroyer or cruiser. The danger and logistics of that kind of fuel kept the US and British from going that route, though they were familiar with the technology. 02 in a naval combat environment, yikes.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 09:11 PM (1m82a)

213 211 Punching out. Thanks for another great Gub Thread, Weasel.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 09:11 PM (Wnv9h)
----
Adios amigo!

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 09:12 PM (L4WDc)

214 They quarantined my vehicle for a few hours, and roped off the PD Dept. until the bomb guys removed it.

I was given a stern talking to.
Posted by: Tonypete at January 12, 2025 09:04 PM (WXNFJ)

So.
This went onto your permanent record?

Posted by: Diogenes at January 12, 2025 09:12 PM (W/lyH)

215 208
Notice that Blue Origin will try recovering their ship. I didn't know anyone but SpaceX to do that so this should be interestig to watch, assuming we get visuals.

Posted by: Ciampino - which part to be recovered? at January 12, 2025 09:13 PM (i0xsb)

216 Not nearly as good as a 38 loaded with premium +p self defense ammo in a Snubbie or bigger as long as you stay away from alloy framed ones.
Posted by: whig's phone at January 12, 2025 09:07 PM (ctrM5)
---
At least one of my snubbie .38s advises not to use +P ammo because there no discernable performance gain. You're just getting more muzzle flash as the powder is ejected before it burns.

Obviously, results may vary.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:13 PM (ZOv7s)

217 My other question is what the hell do i do with it? Take it to the sheriff's office for disposal? I don't figure anybody would want it, would they, but you can't just throw something like that in the trash.
Posted by: Warai-otoko

Your local range misfire/damaged ammo can?

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at January 12, 2025 09:14 PM (/lPRQ)

218 AH, go to lucky gunner website as they have 32 ACP tests among others. Tests are with keltec 2.7 barrel and a 3.8 inch service barrel in a Beretta mebbe. As usual, Buffalo Bore makes some primo 32 ACP self defense ammo using a light weight 60 gr copper bullet but decent expansion came at the cost of penetration.

In my 32 SW Long, I gave buffalo bore hard cast in them for walking dogs at night with coyotes around. Good performance out of a 3 inch barrels Snubbie with good penetration.

Posted by: whig's phone at January 12, 2025 09:14 PM (ctrM5)

219 OK, 9:16 thank you time!

Thank you!!

Sure do appreciate your being here tonight and hope to see you again next Sunday,

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 09:16 PM (L4WDc)

220 , = !

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 09:16 PM (L4WDc)

221 EdL they might have considered the "forgiveness/not permission" route?

Related, when they went to dredge San Diego harbor to accommodate all the Nimitz-class carriers back in the ... ? early 1990s? .... the original plan was to take the spoil and barge it to replenish north county beaches. After a few 500-lbers and torpedoes clanged into the sieves, they reconsidered, and took it all out to deep water and dumped it. The amount of ordnance lost overboard in that harbor during WWII was likely pretty impressive.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 09:18 PM (1m82a)

222 AH, go to lucky gunner website as they have 32 ACP tests among others. Tests are with keltec 2.7 barrel and a 3.8 inch service barrel in a Beretta mebbe. As usual, Buffalo Bore makes some primo 32 ACP self defense ammo using a light weight 60 gr copper bullet but decent expansion came at the cost of penetration.

In my 32 SW Long, I gave buffalo bore hard cast in them for walking dogs at night with coyotes around. Good performance out of a 3 inch barrels Snubbie with good penetration.
Posted by: whig's phone at January 12, 2025 09:14 PM (ctrM5)
---
Oh, yes, I've seen his stuff, and Kyle Baker is quite the .32 Mag enthusiast.

I do like .32 Long, and you can find 'modern' production (from the 70s) for next to nothing. Very nice to shoot, ammo is quite reasonable.

I put a fair amount of .32 Long through my magnum for that reason.

At some point I need a chronograph, because I want to clock some of these weird things I have.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:20 PM (ZOv7s)

223 Thx weasel., goodnight. Still in firearm disabled list as shoulder neuropathy still present, wrist and elbow surgery in November still tender. So no range time, spend my time dry firing a bit to keep some bit of trigger feel.

No shop or reloading action either as repetitive motions verboten for a bit longer according to surgeon.

Posted by: whig's phone at January 12, 2025 09:21 PM (ctrM5)

224 Your local range misfire/damaged ammo can?
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at January 12, 2025 09:14 PM (/lPRQ)

Maybe. I stuck a link upthread to a picture. If it's just pedestrian junk it doesn't really matter, but I don't know enough to know if i should care about this and someone would want it for the impossible to get components or the history of it or anything like that.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 09:22 PM (+iIV1)

225 Seconding whig's wisdom on snubbie loads. I think I have a mix of Buffalo Bore hard cast and hollow point ("FBI load"?), and some Ranger hollow point. Also Gold Dot 135g +P. The last two don't have standard pressure, which the Buffalo Bore claims to have. All intended for a Colt Magnum Carry revolver, which is all-steel and decently hefty for its size.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 09:22 PM (1m82a)

226 I'm going to crash, so thanks again Weasel!

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:24 PM (ZOv7s)

227 Posted by: whig's phone at January 12, 2025 09:21 PM (ctrM5)
----
Thanks whig! Hope you get better soon.

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 09:24 PM (L4WDc)

228 Adios AHL!

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 09:25 PM (L4WDc)

229 Hang in there whig. Do your PT and hopefully the wonders of modern medicine will have you back turning money into noise.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 09:25 PM (1m82a)

230 What I'm curious about is whether the 02 fuel for the Type 93 torpedoes was ever known to have figured in the destruction of any Japanese destroyer or cruiser. The danger and logistics of that kind of fuel kept the US and British from going that route, though they were familiar with the technology. 02 in a naval combat environment, yikes.
Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 09:11 PM (1m82a)

Check out the Combined Fleet website (combinedfleet.com). It lists out every IJN ship by name, its service record and movements (if known), and fate. Most of the records for the cruisers and destroyers are detailed enough that at least some reason or cause behind their loss can be determined.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 09:31 PM (AiJK3)

231 Thanks for hosting, Weasel!

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 09:31 PM (AiJK3)

232 223 Thx weasel., goodnight. Still in firearm disabled list as shoulder neuropathy still present, wrist and elbow surgery in November still tender. So no range time, spend my time dry firing a bit to keep some bit of trigger feel.

No shop or reloading action either as repetitive motions verboten for a bit longer according to surgeon.

Posted by: whig's phone at January 12, 2025 09:21 PM (ctrM5)

Get well whig. I'm still in PT for shoulder problems. Past date for surgery.

Posted by: javems at January 12, 2025 09:32 PM (8I4hW)

233 Thanks, Weasel-San. Don’t let the long hours wear you out.
We need you here!

Posted by: RI Red - will work for money at January 12, 2025 09:32 PM (j7086)

234 Thanks Weasel!

Posted by: scampydog at January 12, 2025 09:33 PM (41CYW)

235 183
As I recall, some of the 500 and 1000 pound bombs that cooked off on the Forrestal flight deck were from WW II and had been stored outside in the Philippines in hot humid conditions. They were sweating.

Posted by: Eromero at January 12, 2025 08:54 PM (LHPAg)
----
If they were filled with TNT then that melts at about 80°C (186F), lower when not pure. I don't know if tropical environmental temperature would melt impure TNT. A nitroglycerine based explosive definitely 'sweats' nitroglycerine!
Making small batches of TNT (a few grams) and crystallizing from methanol was a favorite of mine when bored in the lab. Beautiful yellow needles.

Posted by: Ciampino - Mad chemist at January 12, 2025 09:37 PM (i0xsb)

236 EdL they might have considered the "forgiveness/not permission" route?

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 09:18 PM (1m82a)

The post-fire investigation's report (now mostly declassified) makes it clear that this was never considered by the CO or any of the crew. If the ordinance was dumped, the strike mission would have had a lot fewer planes flying, and none w/ 1000 lb. bombs (the presumed bad ordinance based on eyewitness accounts). Flying fewer planes in what should have been a major strike mission for the carrier's air group was not an acceptable outcome for PACFLT based on previously issued orders.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 09:37 PM (AiJK3)

237 Rhomboid, classic fbi load was a 158 gr hollow point made of soft lead in a semi wadcutters form at +p pressure. Came out to about 1000 to 1050 or so fps from service revolver 4 inch barrels and about 850 to 900 fps from a 1 7/8 Snubbie barrel.

Hard cast is more for critter medicine but usable in Semi Wadcutter form for self defense.

FBI load was roughly equivalent to 45 ACP in hardball for terminal effectiveness. Federal makes or did make a superb hydro shock HST 38 Snubbie round in plus p that had a gaping hollowpoint. Something like .68 to .70 expansion but only about 11 inches or so in penetration. Have that in my 38 Snubbie now. Golden saber in 38 special +p in service length revolvers.

Fun though to reload fbi loads but get speers 158gr lead hp or a swaged hp if you can find them. Don't shoot such in a Ruger as they were designed for jacketed with their leade angle. They lead up quick. Colt and S&W are fine with softer lead bullets.

Posted by: whig's phone at January 12, 2025 09:37 PM (ctrM5)

238 Your local range misfire/damaged ammo can?
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at January 12, 2025 09:14 PM (/lPRQ)

Maybe. I stuck a link upthread to a picture. If it's just pedestrian junk it doesn't really matter, but I don't know enough to know if i should care about this and someone would want it for the impossible to get components or the history of it or anything like that.
Posted by: Warai-otoko

Wiki has an extensive list of 30-06 ammo.
perhaps M1909 Blank
bing it.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at January 12, 2025 09:38 PM (/lPRQ)

239 Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 08:44 PM (+iIV1)

Kill the primers with a solvent or a light oil.

Then it won't matter.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 12, 2025 09:38 PM (d9fT1)

240 If they were filled with TNT then that melts at about 80°C (186F), lower when not pure. I don't know if tropical environmental temperature would melt impure TNT. A nitroglycerine based explosive definitely 'sweats' nitroglycerine!
Making small batches of TNT (a few grams) and crystallizing from methanol was a favorite of mine when bored in the lab. Beautiful yellow needles.
Posted by: Ciampino - Mad chemist at January 12, 2025 09:37 PM (i0xsb)

I think RDX replaced TNT as a filler by mid-1943 or so. I'm not familiar w/ what happens when RDX begins to break down when exposed to high temperatures and humidity.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 09:40 PM (AiJK3)

241 169
Japanese went full YOLO on torpedoes and used O2 fuel for their amazing Long Lances

Posted by: rhomboid at January 12, 2025 08:42 PM (1m82a)
----
What form was the O2 fuel? Gas, peroxide, N2O4? Also what fuel was used? I'm curious.
Were torpedoes usually electric?

Posted by: Ciampino - electric? at January 12, 2025 09:42 PM (i0xsb)

242 Whig and javems, I hope both of you get better soon.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 09:43 PM (AiJK3)

243 Javems, same to you. My remaining right shoulder neuropathy is probably from c6 and c7 vertebrae problems, otherwise I would simply shoot longarms left handed like I do pool cues.

Fortunately no rotator cuff damage in imaging, just nerve pain. Cycles between tingling, numbness, then pain over and over again if arm is at shoulder level or above. The wrist and spine surgery were needed anyway and I have regained better touch feeling in my right hand compared with left.

Have to use voice text entry on phone as my computer time is about one hour per day until pain starts.

Posted by: whig's phone at January 12, 2025 09:43 PM (ctrM5)

244 Hullo morons!
Nothing fancy this week, just re-zeroed the red dot I re-mounted on a PSA Dagger. And then I did a side by side comparison of the new red dot vs my normal...PSA Dagger that's my EDC this week. Dagger #1 has a Apex trigger which has a shorter travel, it's a little more accurate but not dramatically and probably not enough for the money spent on the APEX kit.

Just a good time making holes in paper.

This week I'm switching over to my CZ P-10C to see how it compares.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at January 12, 2025 09:44 PM (xcxpd)

245 Especially if it's .41 Magnum!
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:09 PM

There is iron in the words of Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd for all Morons to see.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 09:44 PM (a3Q+t)

246 In 1976, about 25% of the powder, and 50% of the projectiles of my artillery battalion (8 inch) were dated 1944-45.
Yeah. We were gonna stop the hordes of the Warsaw Pact with that.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 12, 2025 09:44 PM (W/lyH)

247 Nite Red and scampy!

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 09:44 PM (L4WDc)

248 We have failed Weasel-san.

The ranting, weeping, gnashing of teeth, and fur-pulling from Ace on tomorrow's 0700 hrs Zoom call will be epic.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 09:46 PM (a3Q+t)

249 Good night again. I am having to edit a lot of nonsense phone tries to insert via voice entry. Annoying.

Posted by: whig's phone at January 12, 2025 09:46 PM (ctrM5)

250 Yeah. We were gonna stop the hordes of the Warsaw Pact with that.
Posted by: Diogenes at January 12, 2025 09:44 PM (W/lyH)

Eh, probably.

Their shit was all dated 1919-1925.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 12, 2025 09:47 PM (+iIV1)

251 Hey Weasel. Good job as usual.

Night scampy.

Posted by: javems at January 12, 2025 09:48 PM (8I4hW)

252 Good night Horde and thanks Weasel. I learned stuff.

Posted by: TRex at January 12, 2025 09:48 PM (IQ6Gq)

253 I'll just leave this here. She's not She Equips Herself or Cake Girl, but she's a local kid opening a gub shop in southern NH, so giving her a shout out. And because tits. Because, Moron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM-KugoRHN4
Posted by: RedMindBlueState

She seems buoyant. Attitude, that is.

Posted by: haffhowershower at January 12, 2025 09:49 PM (NMT5x)

254 What form was the O2 fuel? Gas, peroxide, N2O4? Also what fuel was used? I'm curious.
Were torpedoes usually electric?
Posted by: Ciampino - electric? at January 12, 2025 09:42 PM (i0xsb)

I read the Wiki article. Torpedo engines were usually compressed-air expansion engines. Piston engines driven by compressed air. To get more range, they started expanding the air into a pre-heater chamber, adding kerosene, and igniting it, driving the piston engine off the hot expanding gases from that. Japan figured they could get more range by replacing the compressed air with compressed oxygen.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 12, 2025 09:50 PM (8zz6B)

255 Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 09:46 PM (a3Q+t)
-----
W goes to the Food Thread!

Posted by: Weasel at January 12, 2025 09:51 PM (L4WDc)

256 G'night, javems. Keep after the PT. I had a year of it it was worth it.

Posted by: scampydog at January 12, 2025 09:52 PM (41CYW)

257 What form was the O2 fuel? Gas, peroxide, N2O4? Also what fuel was used? I'm curious.
Were torpedoes usually electric?
Posted by: Ciampino - electric? at January 12, 2025 09:42 PM (i0xsb)

The fuel was alcohol (ethanol?). Air is required for combustion. US and UK torpedoes used compressed air. The IJN used compressed O2 gas. It's a more efficient use of the limited volume inside a torpedo, but much more flammable and explosive than compressed gas.

Electric torpedoes were pioneered by the Germans. The US copied captured German examples as the Mark 18. The Mark 18 was prone to circular runs, with one sinking the USS Tang on her fifth war patrol. The current Mark 48 torpedo uses OTTO fuel, which does not require an oxidizer like WWII torpedoes.

Posted by: Ed L at January 12, 2025 09:52 PM (AiJK3)

258 Yeah. We were gonna stop the hordes of the Warsaw Pact with that.
Posted by: Diogenes

We were going to stop them in their tracks with the most devious weapon ever deployed on the battlefield - the Golden Arches, the Big-M.

Posted by: SFGoth at January 12, 2025 09:52 PM (KAi1n)

259 What form was the O2 fuel? Gas, peroxide, N2O4? Also what fuel was used? I'm curious.
Were torpedoes usually electric?
Posted by: Ciampino - electric? at January 12, 2025 09:42 PM (i0xsb)

The fuel was alcohol (ethanol?). Air is required for combustion. US and UK torpedoes used compressed air. The IJN used compressed O2 gas. It's a more efficient use of the limited volume inside a torpedo, but much more flammable and explosive than compressed gas.

Electric torpedoes were pioneered by the Germans. The US copied captured German examples as the Mark 18. The Mark 18 was prone to circular runs, with one sinking the USS Tang on her fifth war patrol. The current Mark 48 torpedo uses OTTO fuel, which does not require an oxidizer like WWII torpedoes.
Posted by: Ed L

I've heard of US sub crews requestioning (liberating?) torpedo fuel (ethanol) to make jungle juice.

Posted by: haffhowershower at January 12, 2025 09:57 PM (NMT5x)

260 258
We were going to stop them in their tracks with the most devious weapon ever deployed on the battlefield - the Golden Arches, the Big-M.

Posted by: SFGoth at January 12, 2025 09:52 PM (KAi1n)
----
So you practiced lobbing meat burgers overhand at them a la grenades?

Posted by: Ciampino - well done? at January 12, 2025 09:57 PM (i0xsb)

261 Thank you for the thread, weasel.

Posted by: nurse ratched at January 12, 2025 10:01 PM (mT+6a)

262 ONT is nood. Thank you, Weasel!

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 12, 2025 10:01 PM (8zz6B)

263 Ick and Yuck.

Posted by: somejoe at January 13, 2025 03:24 AM (RCAte)

264 Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at January 12, 2025 07:48 PM (Hdixl)

Didn't I find you in Mombasa, in a barroom drinkin' gin?

Posted by: Roland The Headless Thompson Gunner at January 13, 2025 12:16 PM (+2I7p)

265 My mom hunted with a 30-06 with the Scope

Posted by: Tamaa the Drongo Bird at January 13, 2025 04:37 PM (wGqjj)

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