Saturday Evening Movie Thread

Saturday Evening Movie Thread - 1/11/2025

Joel Schumacher

I walked into the filmography of Joel Schumacher without much of the way in expectations. What did I actually know about him beforehand? Mostly, it was his Batman movies, but I somehow expected that the rest of his filmography wasn't like it much. It raised questions about who this man was as an artist. There are three major throughlines in his work: fantasy/unreality, ensemble-based storytelling, and the guardrails of studio filmmaking.

However, while that's the kind of thinking that I usually have while discovering the work of a filmmaker, it's not what I was focusing on as I went through Schumacher's. The dominant thought was how I got this distinct impression that Schumacher made every movie he worked on...worse. That his guiding hand from scripting to pre-production to production to post were beset by bad decisions that made every single project worse. That's not to say that I disliked everything, but even his best films, movies like Falling Down or the John Grisham adaptations of The Client and A Time to Kill, there are choices stemming from production that feel to deviate from basic ideas of the script, approaching situations wrong from a filmmaking perspective.

These sorts of negative reactions from me are always beset by objections from fans of the filmmaker, specific films, or just the idea that concentrated criticism against a creative is naturally unfair. I just need to make it clear that just because I don't like a lot of Schumacher's films (the big one that probably creates arguments is 8MM which bored me) that isn't an attack on you. I just...don't like many of his movies.

Anyway...

The Director as Writer

The reality of a film production means that almost every director on almost every movie could justify an effort to get a writing credit on any film they work on. From taking a script and putting it into pre-production shape, where they have to decide on new ways to deliver information in scenes to match projected budget requirements to working with the editor to re-arrange scenes in the edit to make unexpected holes in the narrative work (or to find ways to cut down on running time), directors are, most of the time, the driving force for those decisions. They may not put pen to paper, but telling the writer, "You need to write a scene that does x, y, and z," is like having a story credit, at a minimum.

This is why a great filmmaker can have consistently good output and bad filmmakers can have consistently bad output. It's the source of the idea of auteur theory, stemming back to the article in Cahiers du Cinema that blamed, actually, a pair of writers (Jean Aurenche and Pierre Bost) for consistent bad work on adaptations and blaming the weak directors (that Truffaut, in the article, called mere scenarists) for not fixing. When Aurenche and Bost worked for filmmakers like Cocteau, the problems didn't appear, but when they worked with less strong filmmakers, they did. Cocteau, a strong filmmaker, made films his own.

I think Schumacher saw himself as a strong director. He started as a writer/director, writing every film he directed from 1974 to 1985 (except for The Incredible Shrinking Woman in 1981), including his early financial successes like St. Elmo's Fire. He got swallowed up in the studio machine for more than a decade, having no writing credits until 1999 and his personal project Flawless. I think he saw himself as a writer-director through his entire career, even when he wasn't getting writing credits, and he exerted his stamp as far as he could on what projects he could. If he was working for John Grisham (who produced all of his own literary adaptations to film), Schumacher's choices feel really limited. If he's working with Andrew Kevin Walker (who also wrote David Fincher's Se7en), Schumacher tends to take over (Walker later complained that Schumacher heavily rewrote the script, even though Schumacher doesn't have a writing credit).

It's actually really rare when a writer has real power on a film set. Frank Miller tried to make it in Hollywood as a writer in the 80s, and he watched as Irvin Kirschner tore out pages of the script on the set of Robocop 2 laughing that they were never going to film them. The director, being part of the production from scripting through editing, on the project almost every single day, has power that only a producer can match, and if the director wants to exert that power, there's very little that's going to stop him. So, when I hear stories about how Schumacher rewrote 8MM from the writer's mouth, combined with evidence of his own struggles with writing on the films he actually is credited as having written (D.C. Cab is...not good), and I think Schumacher exerted that power whenever he could. And since I don't like most of the films and still have issues with the films I do like, well...*points to Schumacher*.

Ensembles

The earliest efforts on Schumacher's part are actually quite distinctive in a way I would have never predicted. The combination of Amateur Night at the Dixie Bar and Grill (a small TV movie that's darn near impossible to find, but which I did find), D.C. Cab, and St. Elmo's Fire show a very strong and undeniable Robert Altman influence. It's Nashville, in particular, (with a healthy dose of Short Cuts) that seems to drive his writing efforts early. But, it's important to understand how Altman accomplishes his expansive looks at Americana in Los Angeles and Nashville, Tennessee: he used a very long editing process to cut down the large amount of improvisation to come to a conclusion. Schumacher tried to write it out.

And he generally just wasn't that good at it. His characters tended to be very thin, like sketches for actors to figure out on their own during shooting but never given the time to discover any depths. The situations are often ridiculous and unbelievable. The characters are often extremely unlikeable. Combine it all, and I just get frustrated with most of his early output because it never feels well-written. The best of them, ironically in my opinion, is the impossible to find Amateur Night at the Dixie Bar and Grill. It still doesn't quite work, leaving subplots hanging that were probably cut short purely due to time.

I was actually kind of surprised that this direction of Schumacher's career, including his own writing, came to an abrupt halt with St. Elmo's Fire. Sure, it was received badly at the time, especially critically, but it made good money and helped cement the idea of the Brat Pack in the 80s. And yet, after, that, he essentially just became a studio director, starting with The Lost Boys, one of his most enduring films, and decidedly not an ensemble effort trying to recreate Robert Altman for Gen-X.

Studio Man

What voice Schumacher had in the beginning of his career was largely lost for the next decade-plus of his output. This is when it's obvious that producers were putting up guardrails around his work to keep him from doing too much. They could only do so much because of the limits of producer power on a live film set they're not on, but it's obvious that he could only rewrite scripts so much and only mess with so much in editing, leaving his curious decisions to how he filmed things. The big example I lean on is the way he films the ending of Falling Down which has an action-y feel when it should feel more thriller-esque and filled with tension.

This is, ironically, the era that defines him. From The Lost Boys to Flatliners to Falling Down to the Grisham adaptations to his two entries in the Batman franchise (Forever and Batman & Robin), these are the movies he's known best for (for good or ill). And this is where he's largely the most competent. He's put in the tightest boxes by producers and strong scripts, and he only has so much freedom. He's relegates to director on set, it seemed, as much as the system allowed. Not that I love everything here, but this is where I find his work to be the most even and basically competently built. He's only rewriting, not writing, and he's working with, generally, better writers than himself.

And despite any potential opinions about any of these movies, Schumacher went from modest box office success to modest box office success until he was given command of the Batman franchise. Are these films purely him? It's hard to argue that his influence isn't all over them, but it's also obvious that he was following directives from the studio to make the films lighter in tone, brighter in color, and more easily sold as toys (Schumacher outright admitted that last one in a retrospective on Batman & Robin), the surprisingly harsh negative reaction to his second Batman movie (it actually made a halfway decent amount of money and was probably in the black when including home video sales, the late 90s being the pinnacle of that revenue stream) obviously hit him back, and he tried a different tact.

Oscar Bait

Yes, Joel Schumacher went through an Oscar bait period. It's four movies out of six from 1999 to 2004 (it could be five if you think Phone Booth was designed to get Colin Farrel and Oscar nomination, which it didn't). Those four are his personal project Flawless, the Vietnam era Tigerland, the real life story about the murdered journalist Veronica Guerin, and the big budget musical spectacle The Phantom of the Opera (trying to ride the wave created by Moulin Rouge! and Chicago).

None of these films are good. When looked at from the perspective of Schumacher's career, I actually find them embarrassing. They're so obviously desperate attempts at respect from his peers in the industry, and none of them work (the best of them is Veronica Guerin which, again, I think would have been better made by someone else). They're filled with either his own problems in storytelling (the thin narrative and characters of Flawless) or inherited (The Phantom of the Opera's basic issues with being spectacle rather than story). They're all so nakedly trying to chase particular trends in Oscar filmmaking like Vietnam movies (Tigerland) or movies with strong central performances about a real person (Veronica Guerin). It's hard to tell what Schumacher wanted out of his career from an artistic point of view, but in this era it's really difficult. He seems to have been choosing his projects with some freedom, and they're majorly just these desperate attempts at being taken seriously by his peers. It's like a cry out that he's more than the guy who put nipples on the Batsuit, he's an artist.

And his peers didn't care. A couple of the films got some Oscar nominations (Blanchett got nominated for her starring role in Guerin and there were a handful of technical noms for Opera), but Schumacher was left behind every time. Was it because they didn't like him or just his movies? I dunno, but ultimately this period feels wasted, an effort to achieve artistic recognition but ultimately feeling derivative and desperate.

The Fading Away

Schumacher ended his attempt at Oscars with The Phantom of the Opera, well reviewed and making decent money, and returned to the kind of film he was more generally known for: visually distinctive thrillers in The Number 23. However, Schumacher's lack of learning about screenwriting dogged him more and more in these final years, creating films that were decreasingly able to find audiences despite decent budgets. Critically, his best days were behind him, and he put out a series of films (Blood Creek, Twelve, and Trespass) with decreasing results until he could no longer fund a film again.

His final directed work was on the Netflix show House of Cards, directing a couple of episodes (I still haven't watched the show ever) before his death in 2020.

And all we're left with are his movies. An incredible mixed bag of solid filmmaking on the one hand and car crashes of terrible decisions on the other. I've been through mixed bags of filmographies in the past, and the one this reminded me most of was Wes Craven's. Craven also felt like he never had a great idea of why one movie worked or another didn't (the dual examples of A Nightmare on Elm Street and Shocker are the cornerstone of my argument regarding Craven there), but he still managed a strong career that spanned decades. Craven developed a stronger personal following (working in horror tends to do that), but he's also got highs that aren't that high and lows that are very, very low while being recognizable in name to the casual film fan.

Ultimately, I was just frustrated with Schumacher. I wanted him to stop rewriting good scripts. I wanted him to recognize and focus on his actual skill set. I wanted him to...make better movies. The good ones are good, but I wanted them to be great.

Movies of Today

Opening in Theaters:

Den of Thieves 2: Pantera

The Last Showgirl

Movies I Saw This Fortnight:

Phone Booth (Rating 3/4) Full Review "It's small, it's tight, it's entertaining. It's his best movie in nearly a decade." [Library]

Veronica Guerin (Rating 2.5/4) Full Review "But, it's fine. Blanchett is the focus, and she does it well. It's fine." [Library]

The Phantom of the Opera (Rating 2/4) Full Review "Everything's too thin, but the thing looks great, sounds pretty good, and never quite bored me. That's something, I guess." [Library]

The Number 23 (Rating 1.5/4) Full Review "But, I was mostly kind of just bored instead of miserable." [Library]

Le Corbeau (Rating 3.5/4) Full Review "Anyway, the film is a tense treat of suspense and mystery. It works really well. It's something of a treat worthy of discovery." [Personal Collection]

Manon (Rating 3/4) Full Review "It's not the top of the stack of his filmography. It's kind of an unusual entry. But it's a solid piece of melodrama." [Library]

The Wages of Fear (Rating 4/4) Full Review "It's a great entertainment that pushes the audience almost as far as it pushes its characters." [Personal Collection]

Les Diaboliques (Rating 4/4) Full Review "It's claustrophobic, character driven, twisty-turny, and fun. It's a delightful bout of suspense, and it keeps working decades after its release." [Personal Collection]

Contact

Email any suggestions or questions to thejamesmadison.aos at symbol gmail dot com.
I've also archived all the old posts here, by request. I'll add new posts a week after they originally post at the HQ.

My next post will be on 2/1, and it will be about the directed works of Henri-Georges Clouzot.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at 07:45 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Good evening everyone

Posted by: Skip at January 11, 2025 07:45 PM (fwDg9)

2 Hola

Posted by: Thanatopsis at January 11, 2025 07:46 PM (GYt5+)

3 Looks like people more competent than me have the situation in LA under control.

Since I have nothing to do right now, I will return to Africa to F**k Off for another week.

Posted by: Mayor Bass of LA at January 11, 2025 07:48 PM (o8DkU)

4 tinyurl.com/42bsjkkc
Battle of Warsaw 1920
Love and Loyalty in the chaos of war

Watch this Polish movie on YouTube yesterday
Well done and not shying away from horrors of war but not to graphic

Posted by: Skip at January 11, 2025 07:50 PM (fwDg9)

5 Inspector Clouseau?

Posted by: Eromero at January 11, 2025 07:50 PM (LHPAg)

6 I don't get it.

Posted by: fd at January 11, 2025 07:51 PM (vFG9F)

7 I get the Lost Boys, Fright Night, and Silver Bullet all wrapped around the axel.

Posted by: rhennigantx at January 11, 2025 07:53 PM (gbOdA)

8 You know what, if Spielberg hadn't have had the good fortune and good sense to latch onto John Williams, he might have ended up a Joel Schumacher.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 11, 2025 07:54 PM (XV/Pl)

9 You left out bad company which was his attempt at a spy thriller clunky at the beginning

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 07:54 PM (dJR17)

10 Hubs watched part of the Golden Globes the other night. What a bunch of smug aholes

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at January 11, 2025 07:54 PM (dE3DB)

11 My next post will be on 2/1, and it will be about the directed works of Henri-Georges Clouzot.

home fuckin work??

Posted by: rhennigantx at January 11, 2025 07:55 PM (gbOdA)

12 Mostly because chris rock stormare in his best scenery chewing

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 07:56 PM (dJR17)

13 I liked Lost Boys a lot.
Flatliners was ok for the era.
Hated Falling Down, although in retrospect, I understand ot now.

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at January 11, 2025 07:56 PM (dE3DB)

14
Okay, the placement of the vase of flowers in the B&W shot of that ensemble is ... questionable.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at January 11, 2025 07:56 PM (xG4kz)

15 How often are bad directorial decisions made because the director is trying too hard to demonstrate brilliance?

Posted by: davidt at January 11, 2025 07:56 PM (i0F8b)

16 7 Fright Night is another good one

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at January 11, 2025 07:57 PM (dE3DB)

17
How often are bad directorial decisions made because the director is trying too hard to demonstrate brilliance?
Posted by: davidt

Or because he's a meddlesome dick and cannot leave things well enough alone?

"WUT?" -- George Lucas

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at January 11, 2025 07:59 PM (xG4kz)

18 Good evening everyone. I made a vow that if Donald won the election that I would watch Prometheus from start to finish. Just to see what the hubbub was about.

Tonight is that time. I'm about 15 minutes into the movie and I already hate one of the characters. Dweeby biologist guy with the glasses, Hopefully a space bug gives this guy the ick before the movie is over.

Posted by: Motel 6 at January 11, 2025 08:00 PM (89Sog)

19
Since I have nothing to do right now, I will return to Africa to F**k Off for another week.
Posted by: Mayor Bass of LA

Gonna Get Back To Ghana!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at January 11, 2025 08:01 PM (xG4kz)

20 Well the opening to prometheus doesnt make sence and then there are some good moments

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:02 PM (dJR17)

21
Tonight is that time. I'm about 15 minutes into the movie and I already hate one of the characters. Dweeby biologist guy with the glasses, Hopefully a space bug gives this guy the ick before the movie is over.
Posted by: Motel 6

You'll be wishing gruesome deaths and shocktastic destruction on everyone in there before it is over.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at January 11, 2025 08:04 PM (xG4kz)

22 None to fond of Miss Vickers either.

Posted by: Motel 6 at January 11, 2025 08:04 PM (89Sog)

23 Love these retrospectives

Posted by: wat at January 11, 2025 08:05 PM (Dk542)

24 off tom bodette sock

Posted by: Someday I'll choose a nick and stick with it. at January 11, 2025 08:06 PM (89Sog)

25 Yes lost boys which is on tv somewhere every 15 minutes

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:06 PM (dJR17)

26
Well the opening to prometheus doesnt make sence and then there are some good moments

Posted by: Miguel cervantes

If Space Casper wanted to go over Niagara Falls, why didn't he fashion a barrel for himself to do so?

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at January 11, 2025 08:06 PM (xG4kz)

27 I finally watched Interstellar.

I take back some of what I've said about Christopher Nolan.

Although, what it amounts to, the ending requires a great deal of suspension of disbelief, and you decide to give it to him, because he more or less earned it up to that point.

Still... that's a pretty silly thing they do there with it.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 08:06 PM (lH8E4)

28 Schumacher really copped out in Falling Down when he made the Michael Douglas character into a one-dimensional racist, instead of the frustrated middle manager that centered the rest of the movie. He didn't have the courage to play the movie to an uncomfortable, yet logical, conclusion. He had no guts.

I had the same problem with another Michael Douglas movie, Fatal Attraction. No guts.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at January 11, 2025 08:08 PM (sPJDV)

29 Car Wash was written by Schumacher. It's been many years since I watched it, but I recall that I thought it was funny and enjoying it.

I liked Falling Down as well, but it had its flaws.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at January 11, 2025 08:10 PM (klJTj)

30
I finally watched Interstellar.

I take back some of what I've said about Christopher Nolan.

What a fooking boring drag. When they took off for the Space Escalator or whatever the hell was going to git them to where they need gitting to, I told 'em, "Write if you get work!" and skeedaddled.

Ugh to the Ugh power

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at January 11, 2025 08:11 PM (xG4kz)

31 Ridley Scott !

Posted by: Ridley Scott at January 11, 2025 08:11 PM (g47mK)

32 'The Lost Boys' was a fun movie. Loved it.

IMO, 'Falling Down' is an underrated Great movie. The Critical Drinker had a couple of video essays about this movie. Worth looking up. Also, watch 'Falling Down'.

Posted by: Puddleglum at work at January 11, 2025 08:11 PM (qKYfj)

33 There is going to be Gladiator III. Yes, that's right. Gladiator. III. Who knew it would become a trilogy.

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 08:12 PM (g47mK)

34 Den of thieves sequel looks good

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:13 PM (dJR17)

35 Give Michael Douglas a break. He’s an idiot. Lost Catharine Zits-Jones.

Posted by: Eromero at January 11, 2025 08:13 PM (LHPAg)

36 rats, I was hoping for a total recall level eye bugout when the guy took his helmet off...

Posted by: Someday I'll choose a nick and stick with it. at January 11, 2025 08:14 PM (89Sog)

37 Corey was in Lost Boys and Silver Bullet.

WTFO

Posted by: rhennigantx at January 11, 2025 08:14 PM (gbOdA)

38 I'm s Unhinged (Russell Crowe road rage movie) basically a reimagining of Falling Down?

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at January 11, 2025 08:14 PM (gDlxJ)

39
Peyton Manning was the model for the Space Caspers in "Prometheus". Why or why not?

You'll get zero points for making a "... that's a five head!" joke.

Discuss quietly among yourselves.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at January 11, 2025 08:14 PM (xG4kz)

40 I did like Flatliners, and Batman Forever.

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 08:15 PM (g47mK)

41 38 I'm s
*Is

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at January 11, 2025 08:15 PM (gDlxJ)

42 Well nolan had to have a deus ex machina because earth would be dead

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:15 PM (dJR17)

43 >>>His final directed work was on the Netflix show House of Cards, directing a couple of episodes (I still haven't watched the show ever) before his death in 2020.

What about the British series that came before it. It's worth checking out and requires a lot less time. 3 seasons of 4 episodes each.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at January 11, 2025 08:16 PM (klJTj)

44 It was his 2001 attempt

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:17 PM (dJR17)

45
Give Michael Douglas a break. He’s an idiot. Lost Catharine Zits-Jones.

"She just didn't give me rug burns -- she gave me oral cancer!"

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at January 11, 2025 08:18 PM (xG4kz)

46 Interstellar was for nolan

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:18 PM (dJR17)

47 Batman Forever

Sugar and Spice I do not remember that.

Now Bambi and Thumper.

Posted by: rhennigantx at January 11, 2025 08:18 PM (gbOdA)

48 I think the major issue with Schumacher was the films he did that were successful--in other words, those that made money, ie, those that a lot of people saw--were responsible for his overall public image.

So to the general public, he was the "neon Batman guy" for better or worse. I imagine those films made more money and were seen by more people than the rest of his films combined.

Some of his other films were profitable, but I suspect that "St. Elmo's Fire" got lost in the John Hughes teeny pix world, and "The Lost Boys" fit into the kind of the same drawer.

I often wonder the question, if an entire director's work had to be completely erased other than one film, what film would that be?

In Schumacher's case, I'd pick "Falling Down," but it's the least Schumacher-y film in his entire career. It should have been directed by Sam Peckinpah.

But what else do you choose? What did he make that was actually "good"? PS: I have not seen much of his work, so I don't need that question answered.

Some directors made their mark by creating classics of cinema that are still studied and discussed to this day. Others made their mark by making lots of money at the box office.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at January 11, 2025 08:20 PM (CHHv1)

49 How could the planet exist at the edgr of the black hole

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:20 PM (dJR17)

50 In that case, it's not so much books and commentaries on DVDs, but profit-and-loss statements.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at January 11, 2025 08:20 PM (CHHv1)

51 I haven't seen it in a long time, but enjoyed Falling Down.

The Lost Boys was great.

St. Elmo's Fire was not good, despite a sentimental streak for the Brat Pack films.

Posted by: Scarymary at January 11, 2025 08:20 PM (zddDv)

52
There is going to be Gladiator III. Yes, that's right. Gladiator. III. Who knew it would become a trilogy.
Posted by: runner

The grand finale with the melee in the Colosseum against hordes of Ewoks and Hobbits is gonna be lit!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at January 11, 2025 08:21 PM (xG4kz)

53 I am Spartacus, or son of Spartacus, not really sure

Posted by: Skip at January 11, 2025 08:22 PM (fwDg9)

54 I didn' t watch many of those.

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 11, 2025 08:23 PM (YeGMU)

55
How could the planet exist at the edgr of the black hole
Posted by: Miguel cervantes

Really, really, really goooood balance!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at January 11, 2025 08:23 PM (xG4kz)

56 I am Marcus Aurelius Maximus Lucius !

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 08:24 PM (g47mK)

57
I am Spartacus' Mini Me!

I ... am Spartacus' Mini Me!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at January 11, 2025 08:25 PM (xG4kz)

58 Gladiaror two was his earthstorm

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:25 PM (dJR17)

59 Wasn't Schumacher Bat Nipples?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at January 11, 2025 08:25 PM (bss/y)

60 MEEEEE!!!!!!

Posted by: Geronimo at January 11, 2025 08:25 PM (YeGMU)

61
I am Lucius Lucius!

Call me Lu-Lu at your peril!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at January 11, 2025 08:26 PM (xG4kz)

62 Peyton Manning was the model for the Space Caspers in "Prometheus". Why or why not?

You'll get zero points for making a "... that's a five head!" joke.

Discuss quietly among yourselves.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at January 11, 2025 08:14 PM (xG4kz)

https://tinyurl.com/5aszcmwz

Posted by: Aetius451AD at January 11, 2025 08:27 PM (bss/y)

63
There is going to be Gladiator III. Yes, that's right. Gladiator. III. Who knew it would become a trilogy.
Posted by: runner

Maybe a quadrology.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 11, 2025 08:28 PM (63Dwl)

64 The engineer hinted at in the original was a subject of mystety but they werent the point of the film they didnt even land on the right plsnet

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:29 PM (dJR17)

65 32 'The Lost Boys' was a fun movie. Loved it.

IMO, 'Falling Down' is an underrated Great movie. The Critical Drinker had a couple of video essays about this movie. Worth looking up. Also, watch 'Falling Down'.

Posted by: Puddleglum at work at January 11, 2025 08:11 PM (qKYfj)

Agreed, Falling Down is very good, I really think it's nitpicking to critize it...I am sure Douglas wanted to make his character , a wee bit less relateable, likable...but, we still liked, and understood him a fair bit. Watch it now, and it seems to really show what LA was going to become

Posted by: zigggggy at January 11, 2025 08:30 PM (K5Rdg)

66 >>Who knew it would become a trilogy.

Once the first Gladiator made bank...

Posted by: davidt at January 11, 2025 08:30 PM (i0F8b)

67 I guestimated caracalla was not going to be an improvement over commodus

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:30 PM (dJR17)

68 Wages of Fear? Remake of Sorcerer?

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for interpretive dance and festiv at January 11, 2025 08:31 PM (ZFIEy)

69 We need more movies about the Roman Empire.

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 11, 2025 08:32 PM (YeGMU)

70 67 I guestimated caracalla was not going to be an improvement over commodus
Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:30 PM (dJR17)

Commodus was more just banana sandwich insane. Caracalla was a sadistic psychopath. The 'common enemy of all mankind.'

Posted by: Aetius451AD at January 11, 2025 08:32 PM (bss/y)

71 68 Wages of Fear? Remake of Sorcerer?
Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for interpretive dance and festiv at January 11, 2025 08:31 PM (ZFIEy

===

Other way around.

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 08:32 PM (GBKbO)

72 68 Wages of Fear? Remake of Sorcerer?
Posted by: Commissar of Plenty

Other way around. 'Sorcerer' was a remake of 'Wages of Fear'.

Posted by: Puddleglum at work at January 11, 2025 08:33 PM (qKYfj)

73 69 We need more movies about the Roman Empire.
Posted by: Boss Moss at January 11, 2025 08:32 PM (YeGMU)

There were a couple mini series from the 80s that I remember being interesting. Last Days of Pompeii, AD, and Masada.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at January 11, 2025 08:33 PM (bss/y)

74
You'll get zero points for making a "... that's a five head!" joke.

The man from Metaluna goes walking.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 11, 2025 08:33 PM (63Dwl)

75 Ridley scott really lost the plot around kingdom of heaven imho

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:34 PM (dJR17)

76 The Diddler on the Roof.

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 11, 2025 08:34 PM (YeGMU)

77 Even snl satirized the whole trend of roman series back in the 80s

The cold war was the driver to southetn california after the noir era without it well you have seen what a hellscape it has become

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:36 PM (dJR17)

78 Joel Schumacher said, after working with Kilmer, "I wouldn't cast Val Kilmer if I was making 'The Val Kilmer Story'!"

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 08:37 PM (kpS4V)

79 I remember liking Kingdom of Heaven.

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 08:38 PM (g47mK)

80 Was Ridly just a bit under the influence of mind altering drugs when he made this movie?

Posted by: Someday I'll choose a nick and stick with it. at January 11, 2025 08:38 PM (89Sog)

81 Those engineering jobs never came back in the same way they were replaced with service jobs and yadda yadda

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:38 PM (dJR17)

82 I don't remember why...

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 08:39 PM (g47mK)

83 So douglas who had been the suave confident man in romancing and attraction was more s tragic antihero like in a paul schrader film

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:39 PM (dJR17)

84 Monahan as the script writer probably was the key in kingdom

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:40 PM (dJR17)

85 Anybody else see "Nosferatu"? I was really looking forward to this one , but I'd say I admired it more than I enjoyed it. Visually stunning, good performances, but the movie was oddly...bloodless? I dunno.

And I'm a real Eggers fan girl.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 08:41 PM (kpS4V)

86 I finally watched Interstellar.

I take back some of what I've said about Christopher Nolan.
---------
What a fooking boring drag. When they took off for the Space Escalator or whatever the hell was going to git them to where they need gitting to, I told 'em, "Write if you get work!" and skeedaddled.

Ugh to the Ugh power
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at January 11, 2025 08:11 PM (xG4kz)

I don't understand how you would see it as boring. I can understand the unwillingness to swallow the Big Reveal, but like I said, I think they earned it. By the time we got to that point, I was just sorta like "yeah, ok, I guess."

Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 08:42 PM (lH8E4)

87 Scott made many fine movies...But if he only made Bladerunner, it would have been enough to make him immortal.

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 08:42 PM (g47mK)

88 85 Anybody else see "Nosferatu"? I was really looking forward to this one , but I'd say I admired it more than I enjoyed it. Visually stunning, good performances, but the movie was oddly...bloodless? I dunno.

And I'm a real Eggers fan girl.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 08:41 PM (kpS4V

=====

I liked it. I found it emotionally empty, though.

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 08:43 PM (GBKbO)

89 Gladiator was great.

Gladiator II was a terrible mistake.

Gladiator III is Exhibit A for never allowing Hollywood to touch history again.

Posted by: Dr. T at January 11, 2025 08:43 PM (jGGMD)

90 Well it does capture the monstrous horror only guillermo del toro came close in the strain

Count orlok is an eldritch thing even more so than murnau

Maybe eggers should try a change of pace

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:43 PM (dJR17)

91 89 Gladiator was great.

Gladiator II was a terrible mistake.

Gladiator III is Exhibit A for never allowing Hollywood to touch history again.
Posted by: Dr. T at January 11, 2025 08:43 PM (jGGMD)

===

Gladiator 2 > Gladiator

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 08:43 PM (GBKbO)

92 I watched the prequels to Yellowstone. Pretty good.

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 11, 2025 08:43 PM (YeGMU)

93 Anybody else see "Nosferatu"? I was really looking forward to this one , but I'd say I admired it more than I enjoyed it. Visually stunning, good performances, but the movie was oddly...bloodless? I dunno.

And I'm a real Eggers fan girl.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 08:41 PM (kpS4V)

I'll see it eventually. The RLM boys were generally positive, and Mike was reading some idiot reviews from the internets.

If one has seen the original Nosferatu, and even 2000's "Shadow Of the Vampire," I think you would have to expect it to, more or less, bloodless.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 08:45 PM (lH8E4)

94 okay, somebody just bit the dust from a space reptile. This is more like it!

Posted by: Someday I'll choose a nick and stick with it. at January 11, 2025 08:45 PM (89Sog)

95 And the protagonist should be rewarded for really sinking into the character with pitch perfect diction

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:45 PM (dJR17)

96 What a fooking boring drag. When they took off for the Space Escalator or whatever the hell was going to git them to where they need gitting to, I told 'em, "Write if you get work!" and skeedaddled.

Ugh to the Ugh power
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at January 11, 2025 08:11 PM (xG4kz)

But on the other hand, Matt Damon exploded. So there's that.

Posted by: Dr. T at January 11, 2025 08:45 PM (jGGMD)

97 Hollywood>Hindenburg
Just sayin...
Oh The Humanity!!!!

LMAO

Posted by: I'm Gumby Damn It! at January 11, 2025 08:45 PM (jQ+5q)

98 I watched the prequels to Yellowstone. Pretty good.
Posted by: Boss Moss at January 11, 2025 08:43 PM (YeGMU)

Agree. I think they are coming back with another installment of 1923.

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 08:45 PM (g47mK)

99 The incomparable Spy Magazine had a yearly article on the most unwelcome and annoying developments to plague us and one year they singled out "Michael Douglas's Butt". It was seemingly everywhere in the movies.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 08:45 PM (kpS4V)

100 I didn't like Nosferatu. Galacial pacing and then a rush job at the end.

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 11, 2025 08:46 PM (YeGMU)

101 Thx TJM. I saw Falling Down in a theater when it first came out. I agree if handled differently it could have been a classic. Schumacher took the easy way out instead of exploring Michael Douglas character even more. I still thought it was a very good, not great movie

Posted by: Smell the Glove at January 11, 2025 08:46 PM (RLc6v)

102 Gladiator 2 > Gladiator
Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 08:43 PM (GBKbO)

why ?

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 08:46 PM (g47mK)

103 Dread is more of what they aspired to than horror

Stoker made the character too close to the Romantic vision

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:47 PM (dJR17)

104 Gladiator 2 > Gladiator
Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 08:43 PM (GBKbO)

I would respond angrily, except I know you don't really believe that.

Posted by: Dr. T at January 11, 2025 08:48 PM (jGGMD)

105 Now is ot an entertaininf experience ymmv

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:48 PM (dJR17)

106 102 Gladiator 2 > Gladiator
Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 08:43 PM (GBKbO)

why ?
Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 08:46 PM (g47mK)

===

The first is...weird. the glory of rome stuff is undefined. It's dour. Maximus never has an incentive to want a return to the Senate, and there's no argument made that the Senate would be better than an emperor.

The second is just cleaner from a narrative point of view. Not perfect, but I like it a lot more.

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 08:49 PM (GBKbO)

107 There is going to be Gladiator III. Yes, that's right. Gladiator. III. Who knew it would become a trilogy.
Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 08:12 PM (g47mK)

Lesbian gladiatorixi winning everything until betrayed by the emperor?

Posted by: Kindltot at January 11, 2025 08:49 PM (D7oie)

108 If one has seen the original Nosferatu, and even 2000's "Shadow Of the Vampire," I think you would have to expect it to, more or less, bloodless.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 08:45 PM (lH8E4)
----

I've seen ALL the iterations-- unless there's a Muppet version out there, and if not WHY not? -- including the Klaus Kinski one.

Saw Nosferatu on the big screen with a full orchestra sawing away. The conductress had garlic strung on her dais.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 08:50 PM (kpS4V)

109 Ah you gave the twist away re damon

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:50 PM (dJR17)

110 104 I would respond angrily, except I know you don't really believe that.
Posted by: Dr. T at January 11, 2025 08:48 PM (jGGMD)

===

Except I do.

Many, many people love the first. I don't. It's weird and I don't think it quite works.

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 08:50 PM (GBKbO)

111 Does garlic work on Italian vampires?

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 11, 2025 08:51 PM (YeGMU)

112 Well he respected marcus aurelius who was the good egg in a whole row of dross

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 11, 2025 08:51 PM (dJR17)

113 The first Gladiator was constantly being heavily rewritten during production, and it really feels it. Everyone hated the shooting script, and they just decided to rewrite as they shot.

A lot of people like the results.

I just see unexplored ideas, dangling thoughts, and a general dourness to everything.

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 08:54 PM (GBKbO)

114 I liked it. I found it emotionally empty, though.
Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 08:43 PM (GBKbO)
----

That's my take too.

They should have taken a few more minutes explaining how a young Ellen, crying out to the universe in her loneliness, had her plea answered by the awful Orlok. The connection wasn't really established IMO.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 08:55 PM (kpS4V)

115 I can't say there were any standout actors in Gladiator II. It was ...an ensemble. Many good ones, but not one memorable. I hated what Denzel did to his character, btw. I thought I was watching Jack Sparrow in Roman robes.

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 08:56 PM (g47mK)

116 Interstellar is my favorite Nolan flick. Always gets me in the feels. Saw it again on the big screen.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 08:57 PM (kpS4V)

117 TJM, that's like saying you thought "Crystal Skull" was a better movie than "Raiders" because, I don't know, they didn't explain how Indy got into the submarine.

Gladiator was not only a great movie, it's one of the greatest movies Hollywood's managed to produce in the last 30 years. Any sequel would have ruined it, but what we actually got was especially bad.

Posted by: Dr. T at January 11, 2025 09:01 PM (jGGMD)

118 Tonight is that time. I'm about 15 minutes into the movie and I already hate one of the characters. Dweeby biologist guy with the glasses, Hopefully a space bug gives this guy the ick before the movie is over.
Posted by: Motel 6 at January 11, 2025 08:00 PM (89Sog)
----

The best and brightest minds in science make the dumbest-asstest string of decisions. You will hate every one of them, except perhaps Shaw.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 09:01 PM (kpS4V)

119 117 TJM, that's like saying you thought "Crystal Skull" was a better movie than "Raiders" because, I don't know, they didn't explain how Indy got into the submarine.

Gladiator was not only a great movie, it's one of the greatest movies Hollywood's managed to produce in the last 30 years. Any sequel would have ruined it, but what we actually got was especially bad.
Posted by: Dr. T at January 11, 2025 09:01 PM (jGGMD)

===

I understand that most people don't share my opinion, that mine is unpopular. However, I still hold it.

Gladiator is one of the most overrated films of the last 30 years.

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:03 PM (GBKbO)

120 The first is...weird. the glory of rome stuff is undefined. It's dour. Maximus never has an incentive to want a return to the Senate, and there's no argument made that the Senate would be better than an emperor.

The second is just cleaner from a narrative point of view. Not perfect, but I like it a lot more.
Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 08:49 PM (GBKbO)

I didn't care for the first one, so I had no incentive to see the sequel.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 09:03 PM (lH8E4)

121 Fine, I'll rewatch Gladiator.

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 09:05 PM (g47mK)

122 almost 3 hours of it...

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 09:05 PM (g47mK)

123 I've seen ALL the iterations-- unless there's a Muppet version out there, and if not WHY not? -- including the Klaus Kinski one.

Saw Nosferatu on the big screen with a full orchestra sawing away. The conductress had garlic strung on her dais.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 08:50 PM (kpS4V)

Yes, there should be a Muppet version, and in the end the Count should really catch fire. No CGI.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 09:06 PM (lH8E4)

124 I saw at leat 1 episode of Rome, maybe 2, seemed good

Posted by: Skip at January 11, 2025 09:06 PM (fwDg9)

125 The older I get, the more I sympathize with the MC in Falling Down. It seems to operate in a video game, him upgrading his weapons after every fight, but of a type that hadn't been made yet in 1993.

Schumacher gave a sincere apology for Batman & Robin. Doug Walker did a bit where he has a complete meltdown when George Clooney pulls out his "Bat Credit Card".

Posted by: BourbonChicken at January 11, 2025 09:06 PM (lhenN)

126 Still haven't seen Gladiator II: Gladius Harder. I'll only see it for the sharks 'n' rhinos.

What's in store in Gladiator III? Does he fight Predators?

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 09:07 PM (kpS4V)

127 Also, none of your specific criticisms of Gladiator hold up.

The end result is an exceptionally clear story with a straightforward but nonetheless dramatic conflict between Maximus and Commodus, and some very strong character arcs at all levels. And there's nothing dour about the story in the end; it tells the audience that they can be more than what they currently are, and that while death is inevitable, what a person does in life really does matter.

The only real criticism that can be made of the final product is that it's wildly out-of-step with historical events; but because of the strength of the plot Scott produced, he generally gets a pass on that. "Gladiator II" takes much of that plot and either chucks it out the window or destroys its significance, while mangling the history in all new ways, so it gets no such pass, at least not from me.

Posted by: Dr. T at January 11, 2025 09:07 PM (jGGMD)

128 Gladiator is one of the most overrated films of the last 30 years.
Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:03 PM (GBKbO)

I'm pretty sure when he said "Are you not entertained?" I responded to the screen, "No, not really."

Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 09:08 PM (lH8E4)

129 125 Schumacher gave a sincere apology for Batman & Robin. Doug Walker did a bit where he has a complete meltdown when George Clooney pulls out his "Bat Credit Card".
Posted by: BourbonChicken at January 11, 2025 09:06 PM

====

B&R is a bad film, but I like it more than Forever.

The camp is more comfortable a fit into the film. People seem to hate it because of its camp, but I think the camp is pretty much the only thing to recommend in it. And it's stupid.

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:09 PM (GBKbO)

130 I better call it a night, way past bed time
Have a great evening everyone

Posted by: Skip at January 11, 2025 09:09 PM (fwDg9)

131

Film criticism seems to be the realm of anal receptive van dykers...

Posted by: Mustachioed Prison Pussy at January 11, 2025 09:09 PM (PwYDh)

132 I thought Flatliners and Falling Down were both good. I didn't even know Schumacher did Flatliners.
I did know about Lost Boys which was crap.

Posted by: gKWVE at January 11, 2025 09:10 PM (gKWVE)

133 there should be a Muppet version, and in the end the Count should really catch fire. No CGI.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 09:06 PM (lH8E4)
----

Practical effects only. I wanna smell burnt felt.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 09:10 PM (kpS4V)

134 Gladiator has its small issues, but "the glory of Rome" isn't one of them. The movie is in parts Cincinnatus, Sparticus, and Fall of the Roman Empire.

The scene where he takes off his helmet is by itself worth the price of admission, and one of the top ten scenes from any movie of any genre.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at January 11, 2025 09:11 PM (lhenN)

135 127 The only real criticism that can be made of the final product is that it's wildly out-of-step with historical events; but because of the strength of the plot Scott produced, he generally gets a pass on that. "Gladiator II" takes much of that plot and either chucks it out the window or destroys its significance, while mangling the history in all new ways, so it gets no such pass, at least not from me.
Posted by: Dr. T at January 11, 2025 09:07 PM (jGGMD)

===

Why does Maximus care about returning Rome to a Senate? His motive is vengeance against Commodus. He kills Commodus, and his final words are about...returning Rome to Marcus's vision. It's weird.

And yes, the film is endlessly dour from beginning to end. It's kind of miserable. There's no sense of fun.

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:11 PM (GBKbO)

136 B&R is a bad film, but I like it more than Forever.

The camp is more comfortable a fit into the film. People seem to hate it because of its camp, but I think the camp is pretty much the only thing to recommend in it. And it's stupid.
Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:09 PM (GBKbO)

I wonder if both those movies would have been better received if they hadn't followed the Burton/Keaton movies so quickly. "Batman Returns" is a little campy at times, but on average the tone is way different.

Posted by: Dr. T at January 11, 2025 09:12 PM (jGGMD)

137 What's in store in Gladiator III? Does he fight Predators?
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 09:07 PM (kpS4V)

Maybe he dies helping small children escape from Pompeii?

Posted by: Kindltot at January 11, 2025 09:12 PM (D7oie)

138
What's in store in Gladiator III? Does he fight Predators?

Sharks vs Jets in a dance of death.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 11, 2025 09:12 PM (63Dwl)

139 134 Gladiator has its small issues, but "the glory of Rome" isn't one of them. The movie is in parts Cincinnatus, Sparticus, and Fall of the Roman Empire.

The scene where he takes off his helmet is by itself worth the price of admission, and one of the top ten scenes from any movie of any genre.
Posted by: BourbonChicken at January 11, 2025 09:11 PM (lhenN)

===

The glory of Rome is the motive for...everyone not Maximus. And even Maximus in the end for reasons.

It's a major issue.

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:12 PM (GBKbO)

140 For his GIII Scott said he is taking inspiration from Godfather II.

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 09:13 PM (g47mK)

141 Got sorcerer and wages of Fear mixed up.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for interpretive dance and festiv at January 11, 2025 09:13 PM (ZFIEy)

142 Excuse me, but I didn't get the memo about no "fall of the Roman Empire".

Posted by: Aurelian at January 11, 2025 09:13 PM (gKWVE)

143 Thee Godfather II.

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 09:14 PM (g47mK)

144 German movie: Look Who's Back

Excellent satire

Great comedy

Posted by: Archer at January 11, 2025 09:14 PM (IDphi)

145 Practical effects only. I wanna smell burnt felt.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 09:10 PM (kpS4V)

It has of course, already sorta been done, with an episode of Angel.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 09:14 PM (lH8E4)

146 I'm pretty sure when he said "Are you not entertained?" I responded to the screen, "No, not really."
Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 09:08 PM (lH8E4)

You get that he says that to mock the spectators, right?

Posted by: Dr. T at January 11, 2025 09:14 PM (jGGMD)

147 Nitro

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for festive little hats at January 11, 2025 09:15 PM (ZFIEy)

148 140 For his GIII Scott said he is taking inspiration from Godfather II.
Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 09:13 PM (g47mK)
----

At least he didn't say "from Prometheus".

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 09:15 PM (kpS4V)

149 I'm pretty sure when he said "Are you not entertained?" I responded to the screen, "No, not really."
Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 09:08 PM (lH8E4)

You get that he says that to mock the spectators, right?
Posted by: Dr. T at January 11, 2025 09:14 PM (jGGMD)

I watched it at home, by myself, so there were no spectators.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 09:16 PM (lH8E4)

150 You're right, Burt -- "Smile Time"! A classic.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 09:16 PM (kpS4V)

151 Gladiator sucked. It sucked historically. It sucked because the opening sequence used recycled audio from Zulu for the Germanic tribesmen war cries.

Posted by: Archer at January 11, 2025 09:19 PM (IDphi)

152 "Nipples"

-- Joel Schumacher's contribution to Batman and western culture

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at January 11, 2025 09:19 PM (hY4dx)

153 Why does Maximus care about returning Rome to a Senate? His motive is vengeance against Commodus. He kills Commodus, and his final words are about...returning Rome to Marcus's vision. It's weird.

And yes, the film is endlessly dour from beginning to end. It's kind of miserable. There's no sense of fun.
Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:11 PM (GBKbO)

1) Maximus' wife and son were butchered. It's not supposed to be "fun".
1b) Although, have you forgotten the scene where Proximo barks to the merchant, "You sold me queer giraffes!"?
2) You've totally misread Maximus' scenes. He has multiple opportunities to kill Commodus, but there's more to him than that. There's his loyalty to Marcus Aurelius and Marcus' vision, and his own belief of what Rome stands for. At no point in the movie is he 100% consumed by vengeance; he's fighting *for* something, and that becomes increasingly evident during the film.

Again, there's just a lot you're overlooking.

Posted by: Dr. T at January 11, 2025 09:20 PM (jGGMD)

154 It sucked because the opening sequence used recycled audio from Zulu for the Germanic tribesmen war cries.

==

But did it work, cinematically ?

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 09:20 PM (g47mK)

155

So what you're saying is, that film critics want their fudge packed in the gladiators shower...

Posted by: Mustachioed Prison Pussy at January 11, 2025 09:20 PM (PwYDh)

156 124 I saw at leat 1 episode of Rome, maybe 2, seemed good
Posted by: Skip at January 11, 2025 09:06 PM (fwDg9)

It was excellent. Though a bit jarring when they swapped out the actor playing Octavian.

The series was supposed to go for 5 seasons, but then they decided to end it after two, and stuffing a lot of the later years into the 2nd season.

Too bad because it was a fantastic show.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at January 11, 2025 09:21 PM (klJTj)

157 Always thought the original Gladiator was overrated, a great spectacle but a contrived story. As noted above the "I will have my revenge" scene is a classic , but the emperor would have had Maximus squashed flat.
That said Scott also produced another awesome speech in his classic Bladerunner, the "years in rain speech", though Hauer improved it

Posted by: Smell the Glove at January 11, 2025 09:22 PM (RLc6v)

158 Biggus Dikkus was miscast.

Posted by: The Paolo at January 11, 2025 09:23 PM (i0F8b)

159 Tears not years , crap

Posted by: Smell the Glove at January 11, 2025 09:23 PM (RLc6v)

160

The first season of Rome is fantastic and must see. The second season sucked dog shit and should be ignored.

Posted by: Mustachioed Prison Pussy at January 11, 2025 09:24 PM (PwYDh)

161 CA is bringing in firefighters from Mexico and Newsom is on TV crowing about it. Like begging help from a third-world shithole is something we should give him credit for.

Can this stupid fuck dig an even deeper hole for his political career? We shall see.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at January 11, 2025 09:24 PM (hY4dx)

162 I was disappointed with his Napoleon. Maybe because I expected a lot.

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 09:24 PM (g47mK)

163 FDNY offered to help LA, but the incompetent mayor said no thanks.

Posted by: Archer at January 11, 2025 09:25 PM (IDphi)

164 But then Hannibal was another masterpiece.

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 09:26 PM (g47mK)

165 I heard Texas is sending help.

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 09:26 PM (g47mK)

166 St. Elmo's Fire was intended to appeal to me and my peers.

It didn't.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at January 11, 2025 09:27 PM (RIvkX)

167
Can this stupid fuck dig an even deeper hole for his political career? We shall see.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at January 11, 2025 09:24 PM (hY4dx)

wild land fire fighters are used in Mexico too, and a lot of them trained in the PNW.
And the transit time for Russian fire fighters was too great.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 11, 2025 09:27 PM (D7oie)

168 One of the greatest scenes in cinema is Maximus galloping through the Colosseum. One of his cohort tosses him a sword, which flips end over end and falls directly into his palm as he never breaks stride. The music swells.

I don't know how they managed that scene but it is movie-making magic.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at January 11, 2025 09:28 PM (hY4dx)

169 I was disappointed with his Napoleon. Maybe because I expected a lot.
Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 09:24 PM (g47mK)

Never watched Napoleon. I was on the fence because I had doubts it could be done well under any circumstances, and then I saw a lot of negative reviews.

Scott's been a lot more miss than hit lately.

Posted by: Dr. T at January 11, 2025 09:29 PM (jGGMD)

170 Scott's Kingdom of Heaven.

Christians evil. Muslims noble.

Scott is a twat.

Posted by: Archer at January 11, 2025 09:31 PM (IDphi)

171 @169 Yes , there's been some of that.

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 09:31 PM (g47mK)

172 Literally nothing this Schumacher dude did is worth wasting a minute of your life watching.
St Elmo's soundtrack is about the only good thing he's had anything to do with.

Posted by: Reforger at January 11, 2025 09:31 PM (xcIvR)

173 153 2) You've totally misread Maximus' scenes. He has multiple opportunities to kill Commodus, but there's more to him than that. There's his loyalty to Marcus Aurelius and Marcus' vision, and his own belief of what Rome stands for. At no point in the movie is he 100% consumed by vengeance; he's fighting *for* something, and that becomes increasingly evident during the film.

Again, there's just a lot you're overlooking.
Posted by: Dr. T at January 11, 2025 09:20 PM (jGGMD)

===

I think this is you reading a lot into what's not there.

Maximus's motive is muddled, at best. When he reveals himself to Commodus, what does he say he wants? The Return of the Senate? Or vengeance for his murdered son and wife?

And the fun bit? Are all revenge movies this endlessly dour? Revenge movies with big battle scenes, dudes hanging out, and witty upper class characters? Are the female characters as masculine and cold as any male character?

I have my problems with the film. I've seen it half a dozen times, and the problems just do not go away. They actually get worse.

We disagree. That's fine.

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:31 PM (GBKbO)

174 Not a movie, but I read somewhere recently, even if one does not watch the whole series, you should at least watch the pilot for Lost.

So I did. And then I watched one more episode, and I think, yeah, that's about enough for me.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 09:31 PM (lH8E4)

175 Never watched Napoleon. I was on the fence because I had doubts it could be done well under any circumstances, and then I saw a lot of negative reviews.

----------

I was excited to see Napoleon being a Ridley Scott fan and a 19th century Europe buff. But when I read that the focus was mostly on Bonapartes's relationship with Josephine, I peaced out. Never went.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at January 11, 2025 09:33 PM (hY4dx)

176 I was excited to see Napoleon being a Ridley Scott fan and a 19th century Europe buff. But when I read that the focus was mostly on Bonapartes's relationship with Josephine, I peaced out. Never went.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at January 11, 2025 09:33 PM (hY4dx)

The actress is hot. When I saw clips, that's the only thing that caught my attention.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 09:36 PM (lH8E4)

177 A film that happily surprised me was "Mud," with Matthew McConnaughy, Reese Witherspoon, Sam Shepard, Michael Shannon, and Ray McKinnon. the two boys who played Neck-bone and Ellis were outstanding.

Would have been really easy to make these people redneck simpletons, given that it took place in southeast Arkansas hard up to the Mississippi, but damn, it was powerful.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, random is my middle name at January 11, 2025 09:36 PM (Ad8y9)

178 Rome is great. I was so disappointed that they crammed it into 2 seasons abruptly.

Posted by: lin-duh at January 11, 2025 09:36 PM (bLe0J)

179 175 I was excited to see Napoleon being a Ridley Scott fan and a 19th century Europe buff. But when I read that the focus was mostly on Bonapartes's relationship with Josephine, I peaced out. Never went.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at January 11, 2025 09:33 PM

====

Joaquin Phoenix demanded a complete and total rewrite about a week before production or he would walk.

Apparently, Paul Thomas Anderson did it.

I suspect the original script would have been better.

Phoenix is insane and shouldn't be given that level of creative control ever.

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:37 PM (GBKbO)

180 178 Rome is great. I was so disappointed that they crammed it into 2 seasons abruptly.
Posted by: lin-duh at January 11, 2025 09:36 PM (bLe0J)

====

They had a 5 season plan. HBO canceled it halfway through production of season 2, so the creatives crammed in thr rest of the story into the second half of season 2.

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:38 PM (GBKbO)

181 I'm watching Mike and Jay discuss "Terminator: Dark Fate" (which I never saw) and its place in the series.

Mike: "These movies are like taco bell, there's 5 ingredients and they just put 'em in different order."

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 09:40 PM (kpS4V)

182 Now I want Taco Bell 🌮

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 09:42 PM (kpS4V)

183 I carried out my promise and watched the movie to the end.

I don't get the hate. It was a good movie IMO.

To bad the ships crew couldn't have survived. They were the only likable ones except for Shaw.

I give it 4.25 out of 5 stars.

Posted by: Someday I'll choose a nick and stick with it. at January 11, 2025 09:43 PM (89Sog)

184 Mmmmm. Taco Bell.

Posted by: Homer Simpson at January 11, 2025 09:43 PM (hY4dx)

185 183 I give it 4.25 out of 5 stars.
Posted by: Someday I'll choose a nick and stick with it. at January 11, 2025 09:43 PM (89Sog)

====

You don't get the meme ownership, though.

That's mine, and I won't let it go!

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:44 PM (GBKbO)

186 183 I give it 4.25 out of 5 stars.
Posted by: Someday I'll choose a nick and stick with it. at January 11, 2025 09:43 PM (89Sog)

====

You don't get the meme ownership, though.

That's mine, and I won't let it go!
Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:44 PM (GBKbO)
---
Now we have the plot for Gladiator IV...

TJM's phone v. Someday I'll choose a nick and stick with it.

Dueling in the Coliseum for Prometheus supremacy....

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at January 11, 2025 09:46 PM (BpYfr)

187 That's mine, and I won't let it go!
Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:44 PM (GBKbO)

I don't get "it".

Posted by: Someday I'll choose a nick and stick with it. at January 11, 2025 09:46 PM (89Sog)

188 The theory that men are driven to conquer Europe from the shame of being 5'-7" ... great manlet of history ... is not one I take seriously.

Napoleon being driven by sextual frustration is an idea so stupid, I can't even make a joke about it.

Did Pheonix sabotage his Joker sequel as well?

Posted by: BourbonChicken at January 11, 2025 09:48 PM (lhenN)

189 Phoenix is insane and shouldn't be given that level of creative control ever.
Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:37 PM (GBKbO)

Now do Joker: Folly of Dew.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 09:50 PM (lH8E4)

190 They had a 5 season plan. HBO canceled it halfway through production of season 2, so the creatives crammed in thr rest of the story into the second half of season 2.
Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:38 PM (GBKbO)

I did not know this- that explains a lot.

Posted by: sal at January 11, 2025 09:51 PM (f+FmA)

191 Did Pheonix sabotage his Joker sequel as well?
Posted by: BourbonChicken at January 11, 2025 09:48 PM (lhenN)

That's what's been said. Could just be Phillips was kinda forced to do it, and he decided to "Freddie Got Fingered" the whole damn thing.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 09:51 PM (lH8E4)

192 Can this stupid fuck dig an even deeper hole for his political career? We shall see.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43)

Speaking of digging holes . . .

Western Lensman@WesternLensman
NEW: While their state is in flames, CA Democrats are doing TV hits and talking about “Trump the felon."
They have learned absolutely nothing. Schiff uses the term 8 times in 90 seconds:

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at January 11, 2025 09:52 PM (L/fGl)

193 191 That's what's been said. Could just be Phillips was kinda forced to do it, and he decided to "Freddie Got Fingered" the whole damn thing.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 09:51 PM (lH8E4)

===

Freddy Got Fingered is a masterpiece of absurdism.

Joker 2 is just kind of boring.

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:52 PM (GBKbO)

194 Freddy Got Fingeres is a masterpiece of absurdism.

Joker 2 is just kind of boring.
Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 09:52 PM (GBKbO)

Well, Tom Green has a sense of humor.

Although I've never seen any of the Hangover movies, they say the third one, which kinda went dark, is the best of the lot.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 11, 2025 09:55 PM (lH8E4)

195 Mud was good too.

Posted by: lin-duh at January 11, 2025 09:55 PM (UwBs6)

196 Anybody else see "Nosferatu"? I was really looking forward to this one , but I'd say I admired it more than I enjoyed it. Visually stunning, good performances, but the movie was oddly...bloodless? I dunno.

And I'm a real Eggers fan girl.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 11, 2025 08:41 PM (kpS4V)

Well, Eggars I'm beginning to believe is the King of the Pretty But Empty Movie.

The Witch was great but it's been diminishing returns ever since.

"Nosferatu" looked great but the "horror" such as it was was strictly center around the first class sucking noises generated by Orlok, he sounded like one of those truck that suck up cooking grease from the vats outside restaurants.

Well, okay the scene where he's drains the little girl then throws her away like an empty beer can is pretty horrifying but that about a three second scene.

If only this "Nosferatu" had had Wilhelm DeFoe shaking his fist at the vampire and saying, "I seen it! Ye're fond of me lobster!"-
it would've saved the whole movie.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 11, 2025 09:55 PM (iJfKG)

197 Someone upthread is watching "Prometheus" for the first time.

Just remember "Prometheus" is the Dumb Blonde of Space Flicks.

Pretty to look at but stupid as hell.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 11, 2025 09:57 PM (iJfKG)

198 The first is...weird. the glory of rome stuff is undefined. It's dour. Maximus never has an incentive to want a return to the Senate, and there's no argument made that the Senate would be better than an emperor.
==

Ok, the answer is 34.16 into the movie. Maximus is the caretaker until such time as Senate is ready to take on the responsibility of ruling the Empire.

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 09:58 PM (g47mK)

199 That is what Aurelius expected.

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 10:00 PM (g47mK)

200 198 Ok, the answer is 34.16 into the movie. Maximus is the caretaker until such time as Senate is ready to take on the responsibility of ruling the Empire.
Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 09:58 PM (g47mK)

===

This is the motive that Aurelius gives Maximus. And then Maximus spends the next 90 minutes talking about how much he wants to kill Commodus for killing his wife and kid.

It's a muddle.

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 10:00 PM (GBKbO)

201 This is the motive that Aurelius gives Maximus. And then Maximus spends the next 90 minutes talking about how much he wants to kill Commodus for killing his wife and kid.

It's a muddle.
Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 10:00 PM (GBKbO)

I'll get back to you....

Posted by: runner at January 11, 2025 10:01 PM (g47mK)

202 Either the Three Stooges or our beloved president explains that the fire plugs in LA don't produce water because they aren't hooked up to electricity.

https://is.gd/edKrVO

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at January 11, 2025 10:04 PM (L/fGl)

203 For me, "8MM" may be Schumacher's best movie.

I've always thought that it was a sort of refutation to Andrew Kevin Walker's "Seven" as written. It pretty thoroughly trashes the whole genius serial killer genre with style. But if TMJ is right upthread maybe it's Schumacher's refutation.
Hmmm. Check it out.

The best movie made by Schumacher during his slide to failure was "Blood Creek". It's pretty good for a budget action horror movie. Good actors, with some neat scenes like the whole zombie horse thing.

Worth checking out if you get the chance.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 11, 2025 10:04 PM (iJfKG)

204 Way to dig up a corpse and piss on it.
But not until you'd ripped off a rotted arm and beat the teeth out of its skull.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at January 11, 2025 10:07 PM (FCbAQ)

205 203 Posted by: naturalfake at January 11, 2025 10:04 PM (iJfKG)

===

The people who love 8MM tend to really love it.

I guess there's a certain level of bifurcation in opinion because the IMDb Rating is in the 6's out of 10.

Posted by: TJM's phone at January 11, 2025 10:07 PM (GBKbO)

206
ONT

Posted by: four seasons at January 11, 2025 10:11 PM (3ek7K)

207 Schumacher really copped out in Falling Down when he made the Michael Douglas character into a one-dimensional racist

Didi I miss something? He shoots the racist pawn shop owner. Everyone else does something to him first, and at least half of them are white (tries to steal briefcase, wont give him change for the phone, wont sell breakfast at 10:31 while it is still in the warming bin, tries to hit him with a golf ball).

Posted by: Chuck C at January 11, 2025 10:12 PM (D0HYP)

208 I have become Willow, destroyer of posts.

Posted by: Chuck C at January 11, 2025 10:18 PM (D0HYP)

209 This week was little seen movie week at the naturalfake abode.

1) "Smiley Face" - fun low-key stoner flick starring the great comic actress Anna Faris. she stars as a habitual stoner who accidentally eats a whole plate of rug-infused cupcakes during a bout of the munchies and suddenly her day becomes a Stoner's Version of the Odyssey as every single thing becomes horribly complicated. Runs out of juice a bit toward the end but a fun watch. Check it out.

2) "The Love Guru' - Mike Myers movie after the Austin Powers trilogy that was thoroughly trashed by reviews at the time. I dunno...I laughed and smiled pretty much through the whole thing. Not as good as Austin Powers but still funny if you're a fan of very silly comedies and slapstick.and I am. Not great but very entertaining. Check it out.

3) "Lake Mungo" - Aussie very slow burn horror flick. About a girl who drowns at Lake Mungo and then her family start seeing a ghostly figure that looks like her showing up in photos taken around their house.
You may think you know how this is going to end but you don't.
This is one of those movies you'll either love or hate. I really like it. Very creepy. Check it out.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 11, 2025 10:20 PM (iJfKG)

210 I watched a strange movie yesterday called Hard 8, starring Gwyneth Paltrow as a Vegas hooker and John C. Reilly as a something.

It also had Samuel L. Jackson playing Samuel L. Jackson.

And some old That Guy.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 11, 2025 10:33 PM (aD39U)

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