Elon Musk and Vivek Appear to Step Back From Foreigner Triumphalism im Fight Over Immigration

David Marcus has the same reaction to the MAGA fight over immigration that I did: At least we're finally able to discuss policies that impact our lives.

There are two pieces of very good news that have come out of the infighting over H-1B visas for foreign skilled workers in Trump World this week. The first happy accident is that tensions are already easing, much to the chagrin of liberals who hoped they were witnessing a permanent schism.
The second, even better development, is that both sides of the admittedly zesty debate have listened, compromised, and arrived at a better and clearer set of positions for the Republican Party moving forward.
In the red corner, we had the twin heads of the Department of Government Efficiency, Vivek Ramaswamy and Elon Musk who appeared at first to call for expansion of the H-1B visa program that allows employers to use foreign labor when they cannot find qualified Americans.
In the other red corner, we had Steve Bannon and a host of prominent America Firsters all but calling for an end of the skilled foreign worker program, a policy that would no doubt cause considerable chaos and disruption.
On Saturday, President-elect Trump weighed in, sort of, telling the New York Post that he likes the visa program and uses it himself, but not endorsing any expansion. And this is of course the same Trump who fired board members of the Tennessee Valley Authority for using foreign workers over Americans.
By Sunday morning, as parents quietly sipped coffee and spied the news on their phones, the kids getting a little more sleep before church, things had calmed down considerably in this impromptu intramural immigration debate.
...
Meanwhile, Musk arguably moved even further to the center of the issue, posting late Saturday night that the excesses of the H-1B visa program are "easily fixed by raising the minimum salary significantly and adding a yearly cost for maintaining the H-1B, making it materially more expensive to hire from overseas than domestically."
Or as Musk ally and head of Trump's office of Artificial Intelligence David Sacks put it, 'Elon has said that H1B should be overhauled, that it should focus on exceptional talent in high-value areas, and that the scams and low-pay jobs should end. This is not to say there aren't still differences but less than it first appeared. Time to move forward as one team.'
...
Meanwhile, the Bannonistas, who have been by Trump's side from the very beginning a decade ago, are easing their attacks on newcomers Ramaswamy and Musk, and appreciating that they are all on the same team.

Lee Smith tells MAGA: don't give in to bullying from hustlers claiming to be MAGA.

Lee Smith
@LeeSmithDC
Don't be lulled by fake MAGA truce: H1B issue is indeed consequential. When Dems & GOP offshored mfg (NAFTA, WTO), rationale was that Americans would get great "tech service" jobs--but H1B showed they wouldn't get those jobs either. 1/
And there's nothing you can do about it, said Dems and GOP alike. You want those jobs back? Where's your magic wand? And besides, you deserve the pain, clinging to your guns and God -- you're racist, homophobic, etc. you're deplorables 2/
This is what Trump was elected to fight, but according to Vivek: In fact, the things that have caused you pain are your fault. Your culture prizes mediocrity, your parents raised you poorly. Then Elon: Fight me on a thing that has hurt you, and I will crush you. 3/
Vivek continues to double down: instead of walking back or even just modifying his public rebuke of American families, he characterizes it as one of his "hard truths" -- as other MAGA influencers have jumped to his defense: 4/
'In fact nothing bad happened, it was simply a conversation, and it's the left who is trying to divide us!' But to tell people long targeted by an elite demoralization campaign that they shouldn't believe what they heard with their own ears and blame it on others is predatory. 5/
So, yes H1B matters because it's an effect of the core issue -- indeed the reason DJT is POTUS -- a political and corporate establishment that has waged a half-century long campaign to destroy the American middle class. End

Elon Musk made a very bad reference to immigration restrictionists, speaking positively of pushing these "contemptible" people out of the party.

Obviously, "contemptible" is a kissing cousin of... "deplorable."

Americans are not "racists" for prioritizing their own prosperity over that of fucking foreigners.

MAGA voters have been told for 50 fucking years that we have to champion other people's rights over our own, other people's safety over our own, other people's prosperity over our own.

We.

Are.

All.

Done.

With that bullshit.

The number of Indians who decide to not seek an H-1B visa over concerns that they'll be taking the job of an American is, let me look this up to give you the exact figure, precisely zero.

Why should Americans worry that they're not providing enough opportunities for Indians? We should prioritize Indians' opportunities to the exact level they prioritize our opportunities, which is to say, to no extent whatsoever.

We're even done with the "Well of course I'd like to see foreigners prosper" caveat before the "but."

We've been bullied and beaten down for decades. It's fucking over. We're not hearing that crap any longer.

Posted by: Ace at 03:20 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 SPONGE!

Posted by: Inogame at December 30, 2024 03:21 PM (53oGX)

2 1st

Posted by: GF at December 30, 2024 03:21 PM (gA51g)

3 I nooded-ed

Posted by: Inogame at December 30, 2024 03:21 PM (53oGX)

4 So, is this evidence of Musk being president?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 30, 2024 03:23 PM (GBKbO)

5 In 2021, Vivek claimed the 2020 Biden election was completely on the up and up. Then, like many before him, he "learned". (uh-huh)

Well as more and more people like him appear to "learn", we apparently don't.

You need to do more than say some things to be trustworthy. See: Bigmouth Billy Barr

I'm all for policy discussions and disagreements. I'm not for being insulted or deprioritized.

Posted by: ... at December 30, 2024 03:24 PM (/xARD)

6 Saar, you are not doing the needful, saar!

Posted by: XTC at December 30, 2024 03:25 PM (UnA8+)

7 Isn't India where the Swastika came from?

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper at December 30, 2024 03:25 PM (k1E2D)

8 Unfortunately, this discussion happened far too late. The Indian multinationals that are staffing American corporations are going to money whip our politicians. The sad part is that the quality of their output is so poor, that it will take American tech down. See IBM, google, Microsoft, etc.

Posted by: resist_we_much at December 30, 2024 03:26 PM (cpys8)

9 Isn't India where the Swastika came from?
Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper at December 30, 2024 03:25 PM (k1E2D)

Yes. The original Nazis.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at December 30, 2024 03:26 PM (mS4AV)

10 Someone should tell Scott Adams and Elon who Neera Tanden is and who she represents.

Just goes to show that two smart guys can be absolutely moronic when it comes to politics.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 30, 2024 03:27 PM (LkLld)

11
Why would a born-here "indian" American need a H1B Visa??

That shithead's entire Tweet is bullshit and irrelevant.

Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 03:27 PM (bxByO)

12 I think this was, and is, an overblown policy disagreement that the left has elevated to an all out fight between Vivek, Musk and MAGA. It is designed to drive a wedge between them, Trump and his supporters in an effort to weaken the movement to "clean house."

IOW... it's horseshit.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 30, 2024 03:27 PM (Q4IgG)

13 Drag the CEOs before congress and have them explain why they need the H-1bs, rather than Americans.

Posted by: mr tmz at December 30, 2024 03:27 PM (rJ48h)

14 And btw I am really really really really tired of Mic Drop Politics.

These people who make headlines with their quips, one-offs and epic rap battle slams are usually the worst of the absolute fucking worst.

Posted by: ... at December 30, 2024 03:27 PM (/xARD)

15 I don't mind the MAGA 'infighting' on X, at all.

This is the first time that I can recall that important national policies were argued over in a public square forum. One in which many of the players who will be making decisions at the highest levels of our government were commenting as well.

In any frank and open discussion, people will say things that are impolitic (e.g., Vivek). If they were sitting in a live meeting with me, I'd allow that tension, so long as we came to a consensus that worked toward a real solution. I predict that this will not be an issue in two weeks, and that Trump will have enough information, both from his brain trust and from the public, that a rational policy can be crafted.

This would never have happened in a Dem administration. This is why I'm so optimistic about Trump 2.0. Actually, I believe that government should be as open-source as possible, with very few exceptions. Half our problems are caused by a few people in a room making decisions without any sense of public impact.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at December 30, 2024 03:27 PM (DPDtI)

16 I don't give two shits about H-1Bs. They're documented, right?

Isn't that a step in the right fucking direction?

Lock down the fucking border!

Posted by: Dr. Bone at December 30, 2024 03:28 PM (rl6EB)

17 11 Why would a born-here "indian" American need a H1B Visa??

That shithead's entire Tweet is bullshit and irrelevant.
Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 03:27 PM (bxByO)

More numbers helps re-establish the Caste System overseas.

Posted by: XTC at December 30, 2024 03:28 PM (UnA8+)

18 Of course, as soon as you get rid of H-1B, scummy corps will just switch to remote offshoring via third-party labor suppliers. Protecting American jobs has to go beyond just tamping down on the doling out of H-1B visas.

Posted by: Shinjinrui at December 30, 2024 03:28 PM (xNMCe)

19 At least it appears that Trump's hand picked people are listening to the people that voted him in, that's some serious progress right there.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at December 30, 2024 03:28 PM (Rcnd3)

20 I remember this year having long arguments with Jack Straw, who was all on board with Musk and talking about how great he was, calling me an idiot for doubting him and for saying Musk was a wolf in sheep's clothing. I realize that no one ever thought of Jack Straw as the brightest bulb in the box, but just remember a lot of "MAGA" people went on board with this and will happily help sell out Americans.

Posted by: deadrody at December 30, 2024 03:29 PM (L6/j2)

21 Scott Adams suffers from the delusion that when you are particularly intelligent or experienced in one area, it makes you not a giant fucking idiot in many or all other areas.

Posted by: ... at December 30, 2024 03:29 PM (/xARD)

22 you're not wrong, Ace

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at December 30, 2024 03:29 PM (cY18j)

23 So, is this evidence of Musk being president?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 30, 2024 03:23 PM (GBKbO)

--------------------

No, it is evidence that Musk should stick to doing what he knows best while the rest of Americans decide what is best for them and their country.

Posted by: Decaf at December 30, 2024 03:29 PM (unUNN)

24 Plenty of evidence out there of Indian based companies operating in the US that are H1B farming for mid-level jobs. Totally corrupt. Elon did manage to come out with a tweet that was a reasonable first step to fix it. Too bad Elon's and Vivek's initial reaction was a knee-jerk attack on the messengers.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at December 30, 2024 03:30 PM (fs1hN)

25 Not sure why we need all the H1-B folks since they all come from countries with ZERO SEC Championships.

:::drops mic:::

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper at December 30, 2024 03:30 PM (k1E2D)

26 Even the ".1% best and brightest" is BS. No one else does this.

Do you think you'd ever see a Chinese apparatchik speak to the possibility that the best in anything isn't already Chinese? I took a high level math class from a Chinese professor. Everything was, "oh the Chinese invented this, discovered that first" like Chekhov on star trek. No one does this but dying cucked out effeminate western nations.

Posted by: banana Dream at December 30, 2024 03:30 PM (Y6IkP)

27 There are very fine people on both sides.

Posted by: fd at December 30, 2024 03:30 PM (vFG9F)

28 As long as an H1-B hire costs the company slightly more than hiring an American, I am ok with the program.

I have seen too many cases where an H1-B was hired simply to save money or to kill a current employee's pension accrual.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 30, 2024 03:31 PM (lTGtQ)

29 Please I am be willing to help you please would you like a pack of Parliament lights?

Posted by: Vivek Ramaslamadingdong, 7-11 Cashier at December 30, 2024 03:31 PM (lX1hk)

30 Not surprisingly, most of the people on X arguing in favor of unlimited h1b visas were Indian bot farmers who probably expected their uncle to purchase a new stop and gas, and then import 15 cashiers under the visas.

Hopefully this fight made enough people realize that while the system can be used for good workers, it's more often used for people committing immigration fraud. It's also a never ending circle where they import 20 Indian coders, then they have to import an Indian project manager because that's the only person they'll listen to, and then he decides they need to import 50 more Indians. Everyone involved in those schemes need to be deported, and all three companies banned from applying for any visa holders.

Posted by: Rbastid at December 30, 2024 03:31 PM (aQioj)

31 So, is this evidence of Musk being president?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 30, 2024 03:23 PM (GBKbO)

This is evidence of Mr. Musk appreciating the Unbearable Lightness of Personal Opinion.

Posted by: mrp at December 30, 2024 03:31 PM (rj6Yv)

32 Ask your doctor about Descovy for H-1B prep.

Posted by: wth at December 30, 2024 03:31 PM (v0R5T)

33 24 Plenty of evidence out there of Indian based companies operating in the US that are H1B farming for mid-level jobs. Totally corrupt. Elon did manage to come out with a tweet that was a reasonable first step to fix it. Too bad Elon's and Vivek's initial reaction was a knee-jerk attack on the messengers.
Posted by: Chuck Martel at December 30, 2024 03:30 PM (fs1hN)

That's how you learn. I'm glad they're not politicians that have to focus-group test every reaction. Both sides of the MAGA discussion brought up great points, and I think everyone ended up being wiser for the interaction.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at December 30, 2024 03:31 PM (DPDtI)

34 Again, H1B's are supposed to be for critical roles that cannot be filled idigenously, like Nuclear Reactor Control Engineer, Neurosurgeon's specializing in the separation of conjoined twins, or Physicist that would make Albert Einstein go, NERD!!!!

Not f**king general IT workers, programmers, or f**king accountants...

ACCOUNTANTS!!!!

We're apparently importing accountants by the thousands.

Or alternatively....

Rex Grossman: Literally f**k your own faces Space Daddy and Indian Business Guy.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 30, 2024 03:32 PM (XV/Pl)

35 Vivek is sadly quite accurate in his assessment that American culture is unable to sustain it's lifestyle because of the preponderance of tech.

It needs outside help. That is what the H1B program was designed to do. Note "was".

The people that think that government can change the culture are mostly leftists because there is only so much a democratic based government can do to change culture other than not enforce the laws given human nature.

Remember politics is downstream of culture.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 30, 2024 03:33 PM (QB+5g)

36 Musk has been a republican for like two friggin weeks and he's already calling everyone who disagrees with him a racist he's like a speedrunning neocon.

Posted by: Cmonman at December 30, 2024 03:33 PM (awdpR)

37 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 03:33 PM (Zz0t1)

38 Vivek should prove his usefulness and superiority by cleaning up the swamp as he and Musk promised with their DOGE. All we have heard from those two is bluster which any American can do, no need to bring in H1B people for it.

Posted by: Decaf at December 30, 2024 03:33 PM (unUNN)

39 Please I am be willing to help you please would you like a pack of Parliament lights?
Posted by: Vivek Ramaslamadingdong, 7-11 Cashier
.......

Would you like a Squishee with your hotdog?
Thank you, come again.

Posted by: wth at December 30, 2024 03:33 PM (v0R5T)

40 See: Bigmouth Billy Barr

Posted by: ... at December 30, 2024 03:24 PM (/xARD)

Heh. Nicely done.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 03:35 PM (Zz0t1)

41 This would never have happened in a Dem administration. This is why I'm so optimistic about Trump 2.0. Actually, I believe that government should be as open-source as possible, with very few exceptions. Half our problems are caused by a few people in a room making decisions without any sense of public impact.
Posted by: Darrell Harris at December 30, 2024 03:27 PM (DPDtI)

This is very true. Biden's people would put something like this out, get a firestorm, withdraw it or call it a "proposal only" and then try to figure out how to do it anyways in spite of everyone hating it.
In this case there was a fight, lots of screaming, and a sort of compromise. Half a loaf is better than none, unless you paid for the whole loaf, I suppose.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 30, 2024 03:35 PM (D7oie)

42 >>I remember this year having long arguments with Jack Straw

What name were you using then to cover up for your butthurt that Ron flamed out? Cause I don't remember a dope named deadrody although to be fair since you have appeared under that nic you do seem quite forgettable.

I never said Musk was infallible. That's just more of your juvenile butthurt. I said his defense of the first amendment buying Twitter likely tipped the election significantly in our favor and helped save free speech n this country. And I was right. I was right about Ron too.

Musk stepping in it big time with his overly broad defense of H1B, a program that has been corrupt since the day it was founded because it was always intended to hold down the salaries of US workers.

I also don't agree with everything Trump does but overall I support him. Because he was obviously our best candidate. That's how grownups make decisions. Maybe someday you will learn.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 30, 2024 03:35 PM (LkLld)

43 Any issue that revolves around citizen vs foreigner will obviously involve an argument that reduces to "they are not us". Well. They're not. That's the point of citizenship and nationhood.

Whether or not you like or love or hate the Not Us is really irrelevant to any useful arguments about the issue. Are H1-B visas useful to the nation, or damaging to the nation? How you feel about the Them makes no damn difference. Love or hate as you please, it doesn't make you correct or incorrect.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 30, 2024 03:35 PM (y/ZMQ)

44 Would you like a Squishee with your hotdog?

my squishy looks a like a hot dog

Posted by: Joey Bitem at December 30, 2024 03:35 PM (xesY+)

45 1990s - Yes, we're shipping your jobs overseas, but you'll be okay if you just learn to code.

*Learns to Code*

2020s - Psych!

Posted by: 29Victor at December 30, 2024 03:35 PM (TL7UX)

46 Scott Adams is a massive ass.

if you find yourself on the same side as him, check your assumptions.

this may be a relatively new development with the hot young gold digger girl he has going on now, or maybe he's just getting stupid as he ages

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 30, 2024 03:35 PM (Pv3Rg)

47 Half a loaf is better than none, unless you paid for the whole loaf, I suppose.

Posted by: Kindltot

It's not a pimiento loaf, is it?

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 30, 2024 03:36 PM (lTGtQ)

48 They need to concentrate on the budget, which is what they're assigned to do.

H1B's should be limited, heavily.

AMERICA FIRST, damn you. Enough is enough. It's time the rest of the world earned its keep for a while.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 03:36 PM (Zz0t1)

49 Vivek was right about a lot of what he said, the core message of failing American education and culture. Elon went overboard in his embrace of the visas. It's been a lively and healthy conversation, and will reach a well-moderated result, I think. The Left cannot comprehend such things.

Posted by: Ordinary American at December 30, 2024 03:36 PM (h/ffs)

50 >>> Scott Adams suffers from the delusion that when you are particularly intelligent or experienced in one area, it makes you not a giant fucking idiot in many or all other areas.
Posted by: ... at December 30, 2024 03:29 PM (/xARD)

Well, he is a genius at acquiring smoking hot fitness and glamour influencer babes if only for a short time. And honestly, anything more than 10 minutes is being greedy.

Posted by: banana Dream at December 30, 2024 03:36 PM (Y6IkP)

51 Musk stepping in it big time with his overly broad defense of H1B, a program that has been corrupt since the day it was founded because it was always intended to hold down the salaries of US workers.

he sure did and Im glad bc I was trusting him too much

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 30, 2024 03:37 PM (Pv3Rg)

52 Three comments:

1. This was an unforced error by Elon and Vivek, neither of whom have any role in the Trump admin having anything to do with H1B. They should have kept their mouths shut.

2. Luckily, they seem to have realized #1.

3. H1B is a scam that's not just for tech. Accountant, consulting, finance, and law firms are also hot for H1Bs to bring in foreigners. What, there aren't any Americans in these fields? Of course there are. But companies know foreigners are much more compliant and cheaper. That's why they love the H1B program.

Posted by: Elric The Blade at December 30, 2024 03:37 PM (iFTx/)

53 "12 I think this was, and is, an overblown policy disagreement that the left has elevated to an all out fight between Vivek, Musk and MAGA. It is designed to drive a wedge between them, Trump and his supporters in an effort to weaken the movement to "clean house."

IOW... it's horseshit.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 30, 2024 03:27 PM (Q4IgG)"

as I opined on the Pixy thread:
"it reminds me of a concept from the 60s pop-psy book Games People Play; this particular game was called "Let's You And Him Fight""

also;
"15 I don't mind the MAGA 'infighting' on X, at all.

This is the first time that I can recall that important national policies were argued over in a public square forum. "

truth. we aren't used to this kind of thing at all. most of my life, we have been told by Our Betters, The Best and Brightest, what our range of choices was, and which one we were expected to choose. no one wanted our worthless opinion.

kind of refreshing, really

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at December 30, 2024 03:37 PM (cY18j)

54 >>In the other red corner, we had Steve Bannon and a host of prominent America Firsters all but calling for an end of the skilled foreign worker program, a policy that would no doubt cause considerable chaos and disruption.

Oh sod off, wanker journo!
The 100's of thousands of legal immigrants H1-B are allowed to bring spouses, who can then work anywhere, start their own businesses, etc., so we're talking MORE than just the H1-Bs here. . .

Chaos and disruption, or boundless opportunity for American citizens???

Posted by: Lizzy at December 30, 2024 03:38 PM (u1uWe)

55 this may be a relatively new development with the hot young gold digger girl he has going on now, or maybe he's just getting stupid as he ages
Posted by: Black Orchid at December 30, 2024 03:35 PM (Pv3Rg)

They're divorced now.

Posted by: banana Dream at December 30, 2024 03:38 PM (Y6IkP)

56 48 They need to concentrate on the budget, which is what they're assigned to do.

H1B's should be limited, heavily.

AMERICA FIRST, damn you. Enough is enough. It's time the rest of the world earned its keep for a while.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 03:36 PM (Zz0t1)

=======

They are an advisory body with no actual power who will present potential solutions to people actually in government.

I suspect that the big fish, spending originating in Congress, will be a wet fart.

Their only good source of potential success will be getting Trump to unilaterally shutter programs and parts of departments...until Congress actually writes a clear law to explicitly authorize the sub secretary of BIPOC LGBT studies on Indian reservations and shoves it into another must pass CR.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 30, 2024 03:38 PM (GBKbO)

57
For preventing Americans from getting well-paying white-collar jobs: H-1B

For preventing Americans from getting low-paying entry-level jobs: mass illegal immigrants

For preventing Americans from getting mid-level jobs: outsourcing and AI.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 30, 2024 03:38 PM (dxSpM)

58 The problem with H1B issue is that it will continue to fester and operate against the American population as long as acceptance policies into college courses are rigged against the most capable students. Of course the result is then going to be a skills shortage. Fix that first and then let's talk about importing workers.

Posted by: Decaf at December 30, 2024 03:39 PM (unUNN)

59 It's not a pimiento loaf, is it?
Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 30, 2024 03:36 PM (lTGtQ)

OK, you got me, half a pimento loaf is probably better than a full pimento loaf, though it is tolerably OK fried.

Biden only offers Nutraloaf, though.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 30, 2024 03:39 PM (D7oie)

60 H1B's should be limited, heavily.
____

I think it is limited by law to 85k, but can be expanded to any amount due to the country's needs for low- to mid- level foreign workers in order to limit wage growth. Our representatives in Congress routinely increase this limit to 5x to 10x the stated limit depending on the needs of their donors in the Chamber of Commerce.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at December 30, 2024 03:40 PM (fs1hN)

61 >>kind of refreshing, really

and notice who was not involved: MSM, camera-loving activists and politicians, the neverTrump talking heads. . . that's why it was a legit conversation and exchange of information, opinion, and ideas.

Posted by: Lizzy at December 30, 2024 03:40 PM (u1uWe)

62 Again, this is like the CO2 scam, the US produces over 100k comp sci majors a year, and that just universities, that doesn't include technical schools and other schools geared to produce professionals and engineers.

So the question must be asked, if over 100k graduates a year isn't enough, then how many do we need?

Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 30, 2024 03:40 PM (XV/Pl)

63 I don’t think Musk specifically stepped back. He just clarified what he originally said which I take it he assumed people knew what he meant. Very apparent they did not.

I do think though he should have j]known he needed to dot every I and cross every t if he was going to opine on this issue. You can’t assume people know what you meant .

Do I dare say that on some issue, some people are ready to ‘pounce’ ?

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 30, 2024 03:40 PM (D6PGr)

64
Honestly, I think the main problem with bringing in so many H1B Indians is that-

they'll take all the jobs running 7/11s and there won't be any for our Mexican illegals.

Won't somebody think about our Mexican illegals!!!!

I know, I know.

I denounce myself.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 30, 2024 03:40 PM (iJfKG)

65 "This is the first time that I can recall that important national policies were argued over in a public square forum. "

Isn't it great?!!!

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 30, 2024 03:40 PM (QB+5g)

66 49 Vivek was right about a lot of what he said, the core message of failing American education and culture. Elon went overboard in his embrace of the visas. It's been a lively and healthy conversation, and will reach a well-moderated result, I think. The Left cannot comprehend such things.
Posted by: Ordinary American
____

A mea culpa would be nice.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at December 30, 2024 03:41 PM (fs1hN)

67 57
For preventing Americans from getting well-paying white-collar jobs: H-1B

For preventing Americans from getting low-paying entry-level jobs: mass illegal immigrants

For preventing Americans from getting mid-level jobs: outsourcing and AI.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 30, 2024 03:38 PM (dxSpM)

"We can't have you being able to afford shelter. How else are we gonna buy up all the real estate?"

--BlackRock

Posted by: XTC at December 30, 2024 03:41 PM (UnA8+)

68 John Yoo whom I highly respect benefited from an H1B visa. He is a Republican was appointed to the NBES under Trump and clerked for Clarence Thomas.

Posted by: redridinghood at December 30, 2024 03:42 PM (NpAcC)

69 Good afternoon all!

So, who got The Call from GEOTUS first, Vivek or Elon?

Posted by: jmel at December 30, 2024 03:42 PM (bVhJi)

70 >>For preventing Americans from getting well-paying white-collar jobs: H-1B

For preventing Americans from getting low-paying entry-level jobs: mass illegal immigrants

For preventing Americans from getting mid-level jobs: outsourcing and AI.
- - - -

For preventing some Americans from starting a business. The H1-B's spouses can start a business and they qualify for minority business benefits, race-based loans and grants, etc.

Posted by: Lizzy at December 30, 2024 03:42 PM (u1uWe)

71
OK, you got me, half a pimento loaf is probably better than a full pimento loaf, though it is tolerably OK fried.

_______

No pimento loaf is better than half a pimento loaf.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 30, 2024 03:42 PM (dxSpM)

72 W-o, H7, also spot-on

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at December 30, 2024 03:43 PM (cY18j)

73 18 Of course, as soon as you get rid of H-1B, scummy corps will just switch to remote offshoring via third-party labor suppliers. Protecting American jobs has to go beyond just tamping down on the doling out of H-1B visas.

Posted by: Shinjinrui at December 30, 2024 03:28 PM (xNMCe)

Local cable/ISP company (owned by the local newspaper mafia family) just announced they are offshoring their "support" people. Since their cable/ISP operations make $$$ and their "newspaper" burns it, guess who won't be editorializing against this?

Posted by: Tex Lovera at December 30, 2024 03:43 PM (wtvvX)

74 The managerial class best start paying attention or Luigi will not be an anomaly.

Posted by: mr tmz at December 30, 2024 03:43 PM (rJ48h)

75 Alternative Title: Elon Fucks Himself in The Face.

Posted by: ShainS -- Eliminate vast bureaucracies of civil servants, no longer servants and no longer civil at December 30, 2024 03:44 PM (He5TQ)

76 Vivek lighting himself was the only surprise, largely because he is a convincible sort of grifter. Musk melting down in such a spectacular fashion was the shocker for me and confirmed the autism claims.

People are tired of this shit. Losing slave labor will be the least of it if "capitalism" continues to be synonymous with oppression. The healthcare CEO murder was despicable but wildly applauded. That should be a warning that this is volatile as hell.

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at December 30, 2024 03:44 PM (CaELB)

77 So the question must be asked, if over 100k graduates a year isn't enough, then how many do we need?
Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 30, 2024 03:40 PM (XV/Pl)

It’s also a catch 22. A lot of engineering jobs aren’t looking for recent graduates . They are looking for people that can hit the ground running.

So are there entry level engineering positions being taken by similar qualified HB1s ? I don’t know but there should not be.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 30, 2024 03:44 PM (D6PGr)

78 Um, the system, part of immigration, is of course massively broken. Immigration is broken because the chamber of commerce likes depressing wages, and democrats like importing voters. It's a scam. Probably not feasible to end it overnight, but limits, phase outs, and a better way to focus on good talent without destroying our our native tech class would be the way to go. It's the kind of thing that smart serious people with the long term benefit of the country in mind can fix.

Posted by: I'm being oppressed... at December 30, 2024 03:45 PM (YnLVJ)

79 ^&, boom!

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at December 30, 2024 03:45 PM (cY18j)

80 Americans have had enough of the scams being run by India and their liege. They see the American tech industry as a jobs program for India and the H1b visa is only party of it. Almost every major tech and financial company has offshored thousands of jobs to India. Places like Hyderabad, Chennai and Mumbai are now the replacement for major American cities.

To compound the problem, they have also short circuited or obliterated the financial fundamentals for creating our own job pipelines for the tech industries. It’s a self defeating loop.

F these people. It has zero to do with being racists. It’s cold hard facts.

Posted by: Marcus T at December 30, 2024 03:45 PM (oNqTv)

81 We're even done with the "Well of course I'd like to see foreigners prosper" caveat before the "but."

We've been bullied and beaten down for decades. It's fucking over. We're not hearing that crap any longer.

-------------------

That's what the election was about and if Elon and Vivek can't see that - byee.

Posted by: Decaf at December 30, 2024 03:45 PM (unUNN)

82 55 this may be a relatively new development with the hot young gold digger girl he has going on now, or maybe he's just getting stupid as he ages
Posted by: Black Orchid at December 30, 2024 03:35 PM (Pv3Rg)

They're divorced now.

Posted by: banana Dream at December 30, 2024 03:38 PM (Y6IkP)

Holy shit, that was fast...

Posted by: Tex Lovera at December 30, 2024 03:45 PM (wtvvX)

83 76 People are tired of this shit. Losing slave labor will be the least of it if "capitalism" continues to be synonymous with oppression. The healthcare CEO murder was despicable but wildly applauded. That should be a warning that this is volatile as hell.
Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at December 30, 2024 03:44 PM (CaELB)

Kiwi Farms damn near universally praised ol' Luigi.

Posted by: XTC at December 30, 2024 03:45 PM (UnA8+)

84 Supply and demand.

Bring in more illegals and the salary for low skill work goes down.

Bring in more H1Bs and the salary of middle class tech jobs go down.

So, is the issue that we have too many open middle class jobs and that their salary is too high? Because that's why you'd bring in a bunch of H1B types. I mean to say it out loud is to answer the question.

Posted by: 18-1 at December 30, 2024 03:45 PM (oZhjI)

85
For preventing some Americans from starting a business. The H1-B's spouses can start a business and they qualify for minority business benefits, race-based loans and grants, etc.
Posted by: Lizzy at December 30, 2024 03:42 PM (u1uWe)

________

Lower class: wife doesn't work

Middle class: wife works

Upper class: wife runs a business that loses $10,000 a month

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 30, 2024 03:45 PM (dxSpM)

86 "Again, this is like the CO2 scam, the US produces over 100k comp sci majors a year, and that just universities, that doesn't include technical schools and other schools geared to produce professionals and engineers."

Could you provide a link for those numbers?

And not many of the comp sci folks would take a job doing what the H1Bs do because it sucks.

No one wants to start at the absolute bottom.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 30, 2024 03:45 PM (QB+5g)

87 BRAVO Ace. [hey, spell check wanted BRAVE, probably coded by an H1-B]

Posted by: epador at December 30, 2024 03:45 PM (B/Bn+)

88 Posted by: JackStraw at December 30, 2024 03:35 PM (LkLld)

lmfao, I don't give a shit about the primary, so weird you randomly went to that. I give a shit about policy, and I already know I'm going to see saboteurs like you against MAGA. Fake "anti-establishment" people like you helped sabotage Trump's first term and you'll try and do it again.

Posted by: deadrody at December 30, 2024 03:46 PM (2UiSl)

89
Remind me again what is pimento?

Isn't a pimento a fancy olive??

Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 03:46 PM (bxByO)

90 whoopsie, that's 67, capitalized, lol

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at December 30, 2024 03:46 PM (cY18j)

91 76 Vivek lighting himself was the only surprise, largely because he is a convincible sort of grifter. Musk melting down in such a spectacular fashion was the shocker for me and confirmed the autism claims.

yes lol well said!

yeah Vivek just torched any chance he had of winning an election in Ohio. maybe he wants to move to cali I dunno

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 30, 2024 03:46 PM (Pv3Rg)

92
The only good -loaf is meatloaf.

Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 03:46 PM (bxByO)

93 At least we can talk about it and agree to disagree...Dems are not capable of that . It's "My way or the highway " with them .

Posted by: It's me donna at December 30, 2024 03:47 PM (VE6XX)

94 The sad part is that the quality of their output is so poor, that it will take American tech down. See IBM, google, Microsoft, etc.

Posted by: resist_we_much at December 30, 2024 03:26 PM

See the American auto industry. From the automakers to the suppliers. They're all importing H1B cheap engineering labor as well as outsourcing engineering jobs to BCC (Best Cost Country) "engineers" in India, Mexico and Brazil. The majority of which, from my experience with working with them, have zero experience with automotive work, and I question if they even have engineering degrees.

This has been going on for at least a decade and was kicked into overdrive after the Plandemic and the mandatory work from home. Every engineer in the auto industry found out that if your job can be done at home, then your job can be outsourced to a BCC for an "engineer" to replace you at 1/3 to 1/2 your salary.

Hundreds to 1000+ engineers and engineering management were pushed out at Stellantis alone through this. My guess is it happened at GM and Ford as well.

And I would guess that the auto industry is not the only one doing this. Any industry where work can be done at home is outsourcing jobs.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 30, 2024 03:47 PM (P5BPp)

95 Ha! It also changed H-1B to H1-B!

Posted by: epador at December 30, 2024 03:47 PM (B/Bn+)

96 @77

>>So are there entry level engineering positions being taken by similar qualified HB1s ? I don’t know but there should not be.

Not a single entry level job should be taken by an H1B.

Again, H1B was supposed to be used for truly unique positions, not general purpose labor so that CEO's can pad their bottom line.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 30, 2024 03:47 PM (XV/Pl)

97 NYC is not going to honor ICE’s detainer request for the illegal who burned a woman to death on the subway.
(Redstate, from last week)
https://tinyurl.com/hvscmvlny

A hive of scum and villainy.

Posted by: banana Dream at December 30, 2024 03:47 PM (Y6IkP)

98 62 Again, this is like the CO2 scam, the US produces over 100k comp sci majors a year, and that just universities, that doesn't include technical schools and other schools geared to produce professionals and engineers.

So the question must be asked, if over 100k graduates a year isn't enough, then how many do we need?
Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 30, 2024 03:40 PM (XV/Pl)

————

America could do good even if it shut down all immigration for 20 years.

I’d make an exception for hot 20 year old women that agree to not get tats.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at December 30, 2024 03:48 PM (I72M3)

99 86 Could you provide a link for those numbers?

And not many of the comp sci folks would take a job doing what the H1Bs do because it sucks.

No one wants to start at the absolute bottom.
Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 30, 2024 03:45 PM (QB+5g)

They might if they boss didn't demand 16 hour shifts.

Posted by: XTC at December 30, 2024 03:48 PM (UnA8+)

100 93 At least we can talk about it and agree to disagree...Dems are not capable of that . It's "My way or the highway " with them .
Posted by: It's me donna at December 30, 2024 03:47 PM (VE6XX)

This. The left doesn't let you debate anything. The science is settled etc.

Posted by: CaliGirl at December 30, 2024 03:48 PM (leXm9)

101 Isn't a pimento a fancy olive??
Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 03:46 PM (bxByO)

I thought it was the red thing they shove into an olive against it's will.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 03:48 PM (Zz0t1)

102 If we continue to limit H-1Bs, we'll have bodega islands and liquor shortages! Nobody wants to have to buy a loosie from the street!

Posted by: Dr. Bone at December 30, 2024 03:48 PM (rl6EB)

103 97 NYC is not going to honor ICE’s detainer request for the illegal who burned a woman to death on the subway.
(Redstate, from last week)
https://tinyurl.com/hvscmvlny

I wouldn't bet on that after jan.20th

Posted by: It's me donna at December 30, 2024 03:48 PM (VE6XX)

104 89
Remind me again what is pimento?

Isn't a pimento a fancy olive??

Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 03:46 PM (bxByO)

The pimento is the red thing that goes inside a stuffed olive. I think they might be a kind of pepper???

Posted by: Tex Lovera at December 30, 2024 03:48 PM (wtvvX)

105 I just noticed I saw that NYC stuff because Ace reposted it.

Posted by: banana Dream at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM (Y6IkP)

106 "So are there entry level engineering positions being taken by similar qualified HB1s ? I don’t know but there should not be."

To a very limited degree and this is at only the big places. Where you have to watch out is places where the management has been infected with the non-western tribalism.

This is what you get when you stop believing in American exceptionalism.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM (QB+5g)

107 Isn't a pimento a fancy olive??
Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 03:46 PM (bxByO)

I thought it was the red thing they shove into an olive against it's will.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 03:48 PM (Zz0t1)
----------
garlic stuffed olives >>>> pimento stuffed olives

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight, Concertina Czar at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM (6K6Eu)

108 103 97 NYC is not going to honor ICE’s detainer request for the illegal who burned a woman to death on the subway.
(Redstate, from last week)
https://tinyurl.com/hvscmvlny

I wouldn't bet on that after jan.20th
Posted by: It's me donna at December 30, 2024 03:48 PM (VE6XX)

=======

The left still wants a firefight.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM (GBKbO)

109 Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 30, 2024 03:47 PM (XV/Pl)

I agree. Are they? Are American engineering graduates not accepting those jobs because of the starting salary?

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM (D6PGr)

110 Remind me again what is pimento?
......

$20 same as in town.

Posted by: wth at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM (v0R5T)

111 89
Remind me again what is pimento?

Isn't a pimento a fancy olive??
Posted by: Soothsayer at

They are cherry peppers.

Posted by: Piper at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM (p4NUW)

112 I’d make an exception for hot 20 year old women that agree to not get tats.
Posted by: MAGA_Ken

I might start checking the weather forecasts for places I don't even live.

Posted by: Miklos needs a new hobby at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM (xesY+)

113 @ 85, LOL! seen that so many times

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM (cY18j)

114 "Less H1B visas and the weed shops and fentanyl dealers will go broke," said every fucking libertarian high as a kite.

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM (CaELB)

115 garlic stuffed olives >>>> pimento stuffed olives
Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight, Concertina Czar at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM (6K6Eu)

If I have to eat an olive, that's how I'd prefer it.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM (Zz0t1)

116
I thought it was the red thing they shove into an olive against it's will.
Posted by: Sponge

Yeah, what is that thing?

I think IBM uses them for their Thinkpads. (If you know, you know.)

Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 03:50 PM (bxByO)

117 I don't mind a political debate just don't insult my fellow travelers en masse or worse start with the you're a racist shit. Had enough of that to last a lifetime, haven't you?

Posted by: ... at December 30, 2024 03:50 PM (/xARD)

118 And, for the heck of it........

An underappreciated tune.

https://youtu.be/E9d-1d0ltCM

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 03:50 PM (Zz0t1)

119 The H1B problem could be correctly fairly simply:

1) No Job may be filled by an H1B applicant until the company has interviewed American workers for the position for 3-5 years and found no one qualified.

2) If an American is fired from a job, that the company wants a H1B applicant for then a new 3-5 years interview period starts even if the company has been interviewing for that position during the last 3-5 years

3) Each company gets one free H1B hire per year for any position they wish as long as filling that position doesn't involve firing an American. If that position involves a firing then a new 3-5 year interview period ensues.

That should take care of any problems, especially if the punishment for violating the law involves high fines and possible jail time.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 30, 2024 03:51 PM (iJfKG)

120 Personally, I'd like to see programs for training low-wage, low-skill people for better, more skilled jobs, that wouldn't require somehow having to get back into a school they can't afford.

But that's commie shit, so that can't happen.

Posted by: XTC at December 30, 2024 03:51 PM (UnA8+)

121
"Less H1B visas and the weed shops and fentanyl dealers will go broke," said every fucking libertarian high as a kite.
Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM (CaELB)

________

Fewer 14-year-old prostitutes too.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 30, 2024 03:51 PM (dxSpM)

122 Someone whose ancestors came from India is still a native American if they've been born here. H-1B isn't about that. It's about the low-skill Third Worlders imported by the hundreds and thousands to undercut Americans on wages that's the problem.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 30, 2024 03:51 PM (UJJWg)

123 >>So the question must be asked, if over 100k graduates a year isn't enough, then how many do we need?

The DOL stats on the H1B program have been published here a few times. Here they are again.

https://tinyurl.com/zj5jvs

The 3 largest users of H1Bs in the US are Google, Salesforce and IBM. What national emergency requires us to bring in foreigners to work at these three companies?

On the flip side some of the other biggest users are foreign companies that recruit foreign workers the biggest being Cognizant and there are a bunch of others. That does not indicate looking for the best and brightest, the indicates they are doing mass recruitment.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 30, 2024 03:51 PM (LkLld)

124 Better to be talking about it than not.
It's a failure program

Posted by: Skip at December 30, 2024 03:51 PM (fwDg9)

125 Pimentos just come with the olive.

They have to remove them.

Like gravy just come with the meat.

Posted by: eleven at December 30, 2024 03:51 PM (iziT8)

126 For preventing some Americans from starting a business. The H1-B's spouses can start a business and they qualify for minority business benefits, race-based loans and grants, etc.
Posted by: Lizzy at December 30, 2024 03:42 PM (u1uWe)
______

Yes, and I believe H1Bs can be traded between companies, whether legally or practically. It's a racket.

Posted by: Elric The Blade at December 30, 2024 03:51 PM (iFTx/)

127 The problem is the lie. When anyone says of the H1B visa program that it's vital because it keeps us competitive in high tech... IT IS A LIE.

I worked as a developer for Sun and Oracle on the west coast and was a tech hiring manager Merrill Lynch, and I know it is a lie. It's my business. I worked with Merrill when they partnered with Tata Consulting and fired 75% of their on-site developers. I tech'd out the new Indian hires and there was a huge talent gap... which I was told to "overlook" and get them trained up.

Anyone who says it's about technology is lying. It's 100% about money. So Musk, and anyone else who says that, is lying.

Posted by: front toward enemy at December 30, 2024 03:52 PM (TIizU)

128 Like gravy just come with the meat.
Posted by: eleven at December 30, 2024 03:51 PM (iziT

Oh is that what that is

Posted by: Kamala at December 30, 2024 03:52 PM (/xARD)

129 garlic stuffed olives >>>> pimento stuffed olives

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight, Concertina Czar at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM (6K6Eu)

I prefer feta stuffed olives. But bleu cheese stuffed makes me gag.

Posted by: Tex Lovera at December 30, 2024 03:52 PM (wtvvX)

130 >>Vivek lighting himself was the only surprise, largely because he is a convincible sort of grifter. Musk melting down in such a spectacular fashion was the shocker for me and confirmed the autism claims.

It was enlightening to see how these two view America.
Both have expressed love and gratitude for America, which I appreciate. However, in their own way, each displayed how they still don't fully get - or prioritize - America and her people.

Vivek doesn't understand American independent spirit, lecturing that we have to parent like a "tiger mom" and stop celebrating athletics, etc.. And Elon, apart from his very admirable appreciation and defense of free speech. clearly has no use for anyone who does not want to maximize our economic opportunities (and get out of his way!).

Sad, but at least we can now understand where they're coming from. Focus on DOGE, guys, and leave immigration for Trump and Vance!

Posted by: Lizzy at December 30, 2024 03:52 PM (u1uWe)

131 People are tired of this shit. Losing slave labor will be the least of it if "capitalism" continues to be synonymous with oppression. The healthcare CEO murder was despicable but wildly applauded. That should be a warning that this is volatile as hell.
Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at December 30, 2024 03:44 PM (CaELB)

This is the only way to get their attention, unfortunately. I hate it, but I understand it. I can't tell you how many managers, White men mostly, I've seen look out at 1000s of employees and tell them they need to hire and promote more people that do not look like him.

Posted by: resist_we_much at December 30, 2024 03:52 PM (cpys8)

132 I prefer feta stuffed olives. But bleu cheese stuffed makes me gag.
Posted by: Tex Lovera at December 30, 2024 03:52 PM (wtvvX)

Well, blew cheese is disgusting, so......

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 03:53 PM (Zz0t1)

133 There's a lot of stuff that needs done with H1B to reduce the rampant abuse both of domestic and foreign workers.

But that's neither here nor there. This is not in Musk or Ramaswamy's purview. They should spend less time defending big tech's enormous rice bowl, and more time focusing on reducing the size of government.

Leave immigration to the people Trump hired for that, fellas. This is none of your business.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 30, 2024 03:53 PM (BI5O2)

134 NYC is not going to honor ICE’s detainer request for the illegal who burned a woman to death on the subway.
(Redstate, from last week)
https://tinyurl.com/hvscmvlny

I wouldn't bet on that after jan.20th
Posted by: It's me donna at December 30, 2024 03:48 PM (VE6XX)

=======

The left still wants a firefight.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM

It's all political posturing. NY state filed capitol murder charges against the guy, he is never going to get out of prison and will never be on ice's radar.*

*Assuming that the stupid governor of NY doesn't pull some bone head pardon move which is highly doubtful but not outside the realm of possibility. If she did that, her political career is over outside of the state and she wants to run for president in 2028.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at December 30, 2024 03:53 PM (Rcnd3)

135 front toward enemy knows his shit

The problem is the lie. When anyone says of the H1B visa program that it's vital because it keeps us competitive in high tech... IT IS A LIE.

worth repeating

many times

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 30, 2024 03:53 PM (Pv3Rg)

136 Anyone who says it's about technology is lying. It's 100% about money. So Musk, and anyone else who says that, is lying.
Posted by: front toward enemy at December 30, 2024 03:52 PM (TIizU)

100% correct.

Posted by: Elon Musk, Space Daddy at December 30, 2024 03:53 PM (lX1hk)

137 End Wokeness @EndWokeness Dec 29
"HAHAHAHA the right is collapsing"

LOL, nope. This is what democracy is actually meant to look like. You fight, discuss, have dialogue, debate.

Your side didn't even hold a primary.

Posted by: andycanuck (hovnC) at December 30, 2024 03:53 PM (hovnC)

138 @86

>>Could you provide a link for those numbers?
And not many of the comp sci folks would take a job doing what the H1Bs do because it sucks. No one wants to start at the absolute bottom.

Here is a link
https://tinyurl.com/24lotshh

If you are a recent graduate where do you think you are going to start?

When I started in the TV business it was in overnight Master Control, never once did I say....

hey I think I should really be a bench technician.

Chief Engineer: ** Giving The Most Violent Side Eye You Will Ever Witness **

The mind boggles.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 30, 2024 03:53 PM (XV/Pl)

139 "This has been going on for at least a decade and was kicked into overdrive after the Plandemic and the mandatory work from home. Every engineer in the auto industry found out that if your job can be done at home, then your job can be outsourced to a BCC for an "engineer" to replace you at 1/3 to 1/2 your salary."

Clyde, this is outsourcing and really doesn't tie into the H1B argument other than if we didn't have them then even more work would go overseas because we can't produce at the rate the market demands without imported help.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 30, 2024 03:54 PM (QB+5g)

140
Question: Why should we trust biden's ICE??

Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 03:54 PM (bxByO)

141 Hmmm. Covid introduced the work from home model, which by and large worked so wonderfully that commercial real estate is on the verge of tanking.

IT in particular saw such a huge embrace of this that any company that tried to force return to work lost talent because no way were they giving this perk up.

So why does ANY company need to import a physical presence of foreign workers who work via computer? Ok. Hire them. But you ain't coming here and bringing your third world shithole attitudes and yes nepotistic racist in group politics with you. You get to stay in Mumbai and deal with your own sewage. Work for Microsoft from there.

And how dare these people call Americans racist in light of their caste system? What a bunch of crap.

Posted by: Derak at December 30, 2024 03:54 PM (PF2UZ)

142 Leave immigration to the people Trump hired for that, fellas. This is none of your business.

they were freaking out bc people on X weren't happy with PDJTs AI czar being a foreigner

AI is ... another scam lol

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 30, 2024 03:54 PM (Pv3Rg)

143
Point is: This is still biden's/mayorkas' ICE

Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 03:54 PM (bxByO)

144 132 I prefer feta stuffed olives. But bleu cheese stuffed makes me gag.
Posted by: Tex Lovera at December 30, 2024 03:52 PM (wtvvX)

Well, blew cheese is disgusting, so......

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 03:53 PM (Zz0t1)

Heh. My BiL is fanatical about not putting too much vermouth in his martinis, then dumps three bleu cheese olives in them. Ooof.

Posted by: Tex Lovera at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (wtvvX)

145
The mind boggles.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 30, 2024 03:53 PM (XV/Pl)

I read this as "beer goggles."

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (Zz0t1)

146 Of course, as soon as you get rid of H-1B, scummy corps will just switch to remote offshoring via third-party labor suppliers. Protecting American jobs has to go beyond just tamping down on the doling out of H-1B visas.

Posted by: Shinjinrui at December 30, 2024 03:28 PM

This has already been going on in the automotive industry for the past 3+ years since the Plandemic lockdowns. Hundreds of engineers at Stellantis alone (including me) were laid off and replaced with BCC (Best Cost Country) "engineers" from India, Mexico and Brazil making 1/3 to 1/2 our salaries.

Stellantis gave the excuse to we engineers and the public that they we were being laid off because we did not have the skillset and expertise to go forward with EV technology. Or some such bullshit. When in fact, among just the engineers I knew who were laid off were some of the best in the department, putting up consistently excellent production and getting yearly reviews of 'excellent'. I had excellent reviews in 3 of my last 5 years with the company. So we all knew their narrative was BS.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (P5BPp)

147 I’d make an exception for hot 20 year old women that agree to not get tats.
Posted by: MAGA_Ken at December 30, 2024 03:48 PM (I72M3)
_________
They are always in demand.

Posted by: Eeyore at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (1bNHn)

148 If Trump's administration can turn the economy around it's likely the whole H1B issue will become a lot less relevant.

It's patently obvious to me this issue has nothing to do with personnel shortfalls in tech related fields and everything to do with immigration and corruption.

Frame it in that context and a lot of the bullshit arguments (on both sides) go away.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (Q4IgG)

149 I tech'd out the new Indian hires and there was a huge talent gap... which I was told to "overlook" and get them trained up.

-------

Yeah, I've worked with TCS on a major project. They were, uh... suboptimal, to put it politely, lol.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (BI5O2)

150 I oppose the H1-B program, which is a total scam that hurts American workers.

I once applied for a position starting a medical imaging program that 1) I had started previously at another company, 2) I had a lengthy career in academic research, 3) the position was in a company that was 200 yards away from where I was working at the time in a research park, and 4) a friend and former colleague of mine was on their board of directors.

Never heard a peep from them. Not one. No acknowledgement of receipt, nothing. I am pretty confident that my resume blew the doors off of whomever they had in mind, and that they were only advertising to justify Gupta's H1-B visa, so they had to bury my application so as not to scupper Gupta's H1-B visa.

"No, sorry, we couldn't find any qualified Americans for this position. Except for the one a couple buildings over from us."

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (YqDXo)

151 So why does ANY company need to import a physical presence of foreign workers who work via computer? Ok. Hire them. But you ain't coming here and bringing your third world shithole attitudes and yes nepotistic racist in group politics with you. You get to stay in Mumbai and deal with your own sewage. Work for Microsoft from there.

the US based managers didn't like having to do meetings in the middle of the night here

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (Pv3Rg)

152 I prefer feta stuffed olives. But bleu cheese stuffed makes me gag.
Posted by: Tex Lovera at December 30, 2024 03:52 PM (wtvvX)

Well, blew cheese is disgusting, so......
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 03:53 PM (Zz0t1)
-----------
I'll have yours, then. I love it.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight, Concertina Czar at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (6K6Eu)

153 Anyone who says it's about technology is lying. It's 100% about money. So Musk, and anyone else who says that, is lying.

————-

Hell didn’t Disney just a couple years ago fire its American workers and had them train their H1b replacements before letting them go?

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (I72M3)

154 101 Isn't a pimento a fancy olive??
Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 03:46 PM (bxByO)

I thought it was the red thing they shove into an olive against it's will.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 03:48 PM (Zz0t1)

I thought a pimento was a type of chili pepper?

Posted by: CaliGirl at December 30, 2024 03:56 PM (leXm9)

155 Heh. My BiL is fanatical about not putting too much vermouth in his martinis, then dumps three bleu cheese olives in them. Ooof.
Posted by: Tex Lovera at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (wtvvX)

"Shaken, not stirred. And throw in some rat droppings for the fun of it."

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 03:56 PM (Zz0t1)

156 Posted by: deadrody at December 30, 2024 03:46 PM (2UiSl)
~~~~~

Hah.
Hahahaha.
Hahahahahahahaha.

Pinhead.

Posted by: IrishEi at December 30, 2024 03:56 PM (3ImbR)

157 Posted by: resist_we_much at December 30, 2024 03:52 PM (cpys

That's the way it is heading if people don't get a grip and stop with shit like the H1B's. Not every CEO can bug out successfully and in time if things go south.

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at December 30, 2024 03:56 PM (CaELB)

158 If we just jack up the tariffs on curry, all of this will balance like tears in the rain.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at December 30, 2024 03:56 PM (rl6EB)

159
Who remembers the musical 1776?

Who read the Federalist Papers?

Those bloaks had lots of arguments.

Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 03:56 PM (bxByO)

160 We should all keep in mind that this is cultural as much as economic.

Indians and to a lesser extent Chinese are notorious for heavily favoring their own. Indians will try to stuff their companies with more Indians, for reasons having nothing to do with economics. One Indian brings in 5 more, which in term bring in 5 more each, etc.

Meanwhile, suicidal whites do anything possible to avoid hiring other whites.

Posted by: Elric The Blade at December 30, 2024 03:57 PM (iFTx/)

161 158 If we just jack up the tariffs on curry, all of this will balance like tears in the rain.
Posted by: Dr. Bone at December 30, 2024 03:56 PM (rl6EB)

Thai Curry >>> Indian Curry

Posted by: XTC at December 30, 2024 03:57 PM (UnA8+)

162 I was an H1-B visa entrant during the Y2K era

It was a form of indentured servitude

You stick to your "consultant" outfit praying they don't lay you off because they are also your eventual green card sponsor.

It was just coding work in a niche software

They could have trained a US college grad to do it; but probably the grad would expect stuff like raises and shit.

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at December 30, 2024 03:57 PM (J5RCE)

163 the US based managers didn't like having to do meetings in the middle of the night here

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (Pv3Rg)
________________

Pro tip: let the curry breaths meet in the middle of THEIR night, not yours.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 30, 2024 03:57 PM (YqDXo)

164 Preach it Ace. That line about being forced to care more about other people than ourselves is so true and hits the f'in mark.

Posted by: Defenestratus at December 30, 2024 03:57 PM (j02Qw)

165 -----------
I'll have yours, then. I love it.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight, Concertina Czar at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (6K6Eu)

TYA. All yours, bro.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 03:57 PM (Zz0t1)

166 Vivek is sadly quite accurate in his assessment that American culture is unable to sustain it's lifestyle because of the preponderance of tech.

What's the point in going through the grind of learning math and programming when there won't be a job for you because the companies can import Third Worlders with certificates from their uncle's "tech school"?

Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 30, 2024 03:58 PM (UJJWg)

167 Musk should have responded to Neera Tandem "your a communist swine who's funded by the Soros clan. I'm glad you're upset"

Posted by: Smell the Glove at December 30, 2024 03:58 PM (MLa3L)

168
Yes.

The H1B Visas hires are the the high-tech Fruit Pickers.

It's all about Cheap Labor.

(Someone should tweet that because it's geniusly pithy)

Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 03:58 PM (bxByO)

169 Woot! Got the last piece of sheetrock hung for my kitchen ceiling. That's the last of the ceiling sheetrock in the whole house. Still a bunch of small pieces to panel over OSB on the walls of the front room, but that will be a piece of cake. Don't even have to look for the studs.

Beer time!

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 30, 2024 03:58 PM (8zz6B)

170 "If you are a recent graduate where do you think you are going to start?"

Some job that doesn't involve low level coding. There are a few.

I don't know of any recent comp sci graduates that are looking for a job besides the ones that think they don't have to put in some dues. Lot's of grads expect $100K getting out of school and kind of lose it when only $50K jobs are available.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 30, 2024 03:58 PM (QB+5g)

171 As someone who's job is constantly threatened by outsourcing to India and H1-Bs, this is important to me.

And importantly, it's not just the cheaper labor of H1-Bs that is driving companies to hire H1-Bs (they'll work for less, sometimes intending to go back to India and live like a Raj), it's also the culture. My company is being replaced by foreign labor, from the top down. Our Indian folks, great people by and large, often work more to please and check boxes for their superiors rather than create solid products. Of course the best of them are incredible, but the differences between their "good" employees and ours are often stark.

Posted by: Dr. Fausti - I AM The Science at December 30, 2024 03:58 PM (lg881)

172 166 Vivek is sadly quite accurate in his assessment that American culture is unable to sustain it's lifestyle because of the preponderance of tech.

What's the point in going through the grind of learning math and programming when there won't be a job for you because the companies can import Third Worlders with certificates from their uncle's "tech school"?
Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 30, 2024 03:58 PM (UJJWg)

Yep. "Quit making me rape you" is not a compelling political message.

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at December 30, 2024 03:59 PM (CaELB)

173 IT in particular saw such a huge embrace of this that any company that tried to force return to work lost talent because no way were they giving this perk up.

Posted by: Derak at December 30, 2024 03:54 PM (PF2UZ)

I’m not quite reading you. Do you think that’s okay by the employee?

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 30, 2024 03:59 PM (D6PGr)

174 >>The H1B problem could be correctly fairly simply:

Or scrap it and start over.
Eric Weinsten has been writing about how it was a scam from the get-go to depress wages. It started bad, so why fix it?

https://x.com/EricRWeinstein
I highly recommend learning about the history of where H-1B came from before getting emotionally invested in it.

It was born as a labor tampering conspiracy against American scientists headquartered at the
@theNASEM (GUIRR) & @nsf (PRA) under Erich Bloch.

https://tinyurl.com/5y44m4ee

Posted by: Lizzy at December 30, 2024 03:59 PM (u1uWe)

175 And not many of the comp sci folks would take a job doing what the H1Bs do because it sucks.

No one wants to start at the absolute bottom.

"Jobs Americans won't do" is BS in tech just like it is in unskilled labor.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 30, 2024 04:00 PM (UJJWg)

176
You know what other Stupid Lie I hate?

The "low birth rate" bullshit lie.

1. It's not true.
2. I wish it were true!

We need Less people in the USA, not more.

Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 04:00 PM (bxByO)

177 169 Woot! Got the last piece of sheetrock hung for my kitchen ceiling. That's the last of the ceiling sheetrock in the whole house. Still a bunch of small pieces to panel over OSB on the walls of the front room, but that will be a piece of cake. Don't even have to look for the studs.

Beer time!

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 30, 2024 03:58 PM (8zz6B)

Righteous.

Posted by: Tex Lovera at December 30, 2024 04:00 PM (wtvvX)

178 To Vivek Americans are lower caste?

Hard for Indians to ignore their culture, even if he is a second generation immigrant.

Posted by: illiniwek at December 30, 2024 04:00 PM (Cus5s)

179 Thai Curry >>> Indian Curry

Posted by: XTC

Tim Curry >>> Thai Curry >>> Indian Curry

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 30, 2024 04:00 PM (lTGtQ)

180
I mean, who fucking cares that the USA population will be, what, 200 million, a thousand years from now.

Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 04:01 PM (bxByO)

181 Woot! Got the last piece of sheetrock hung for my kitchen ceiling. That's the last of the ceiling sheetrock in the whole house. Still a bunch of small pieces to panel over OSB on the walls of the front room, but that will be a piece of cake. Don't even have to look for the studs.

Beer time!
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 30, 2024 03:58 PM (8zz6B)

Congrats.

Nailed or screwed?

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 04:01 PM (Zz0t1)

182 Rex Grossman: Literally f**k your own faces Space Daddy and Indian Business Guy.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 30, 2024 03:32 PM

Getting me confused with a shitty Chicago Bears QB?

Posted by: Les Grossman at December 30, 2024 04:01 PM (P5BPp)

183 170 I don't know of any recent comp sci graduates that are looking for a job besides the ones that think they don't have to put in some dues. Lot's of grads expect $100K getting out of school and kind of lose it when only $50K jobs are available.
Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 30, 2024 03:58 PM (QB+5g)

Fuck, as someone still stuck only making 30K at a dead end, I'd gladly take 50K if somehow I can ever learn to code.

CAVEAT : NOT for 80 hours a week, however.

That's barely $12/hr.

Posted by: XTC at December 30, 2024 04:01 PM (UnA8+)

184 Yes well, this is the drawback of relying so heavily on big business for our leadership.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 30, 2024 04:01 PM (RsS92)

185 "Jobs Americans won't do" is BS in tech just like it is in unskilled labor.

This is not true. You can invent all the scenarios you want but that doesn't make them so.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 30, 2024 04:02 PM (QB+5g)

186 Rex Grossman: Literally f**k your own faces Space Daddy and Indian Business Guy.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 30, 2024 03:32 PM

Getting me confused with a shitty Chicago Bears QB?
Posted by: Les Grossman at December 30, 2024 04:01 PM (P5BPp)

Les Nessman > Rex Grossman

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 04:02 PM (Zz0t1)

187 For preventing some Americans from starting a business. The H1-B's spouses can start a business and they qualify for minority business benefits, race-based loans and grants, etc.
Posted by: Lizzy at

What are these benefits? Because I am technically a minority and female, but had to jump through flaming hoops for my SBA loan, ultimately needing J to co-sign because of the net worth requirements. Grants are incredibly difficult to get and are limited to specific businesses, usually not small ones.

Posted by: Piper at December 30, 2024 04:02 PM (p4NUW)

188 Hell didn’t Disney just a couple years ago fire its American workers and had them train their H1b replacements before letting them go?

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (I72M3)

Sounds like a slam dunk lawsuit based on the law . Anyone file one?

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 30, 2024 04:02 PM (D6PGr)

189 The ugly cousin of H1B is the L visa. Its worse than h1b in many ways.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at December 30, 2024 04:02 PM (qF0hk)

190 Congrats, AOP!

ceilings are the worst!

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at December 30, 2024 04:03 PM (cY18j)

191 @182

>>Getting me confused with a shitty Chicago Bears QB?

Oof, major faux pas, I should have grokked this at a metaphysical level.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 30, 2024 04:03 PM (XV/Pl)

192 H1-Bs should be paid at the going rate for their position, with a 50% surcharge paid by the company to the government to fund job training for Americans.

Remove the financial incentive to hire an H1-B unless you really need him.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 30, 2024 04:03 PM (YqDXo)

193 Hell didn’t Disney just a couple years ago fire its American workers and had them train their H1b replacements before letting them go?

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (I72M3)

Sounds like a slam dunk lawsuit based on the law . Anyone file one?
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 30, 2024 04:02 PM (D6PGr)
-----------
Disney and PGE that I know of. And that was about a decade ago.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight, Concertina Czar at December 30, 2024 04:04 PM (6K6Eu)

194 Hell didn’t Disney just a couple years ago fire its American workers and had them train their H1b replacements before letting them go?

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at December 30, 2024 03:55 PM (I72M3)

60 Minutes actually did a story on it and one of the guys they interviewed had this happen.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 04:04 PM (Zz0t1)

195 191 @182

>>Getting me confused with a shitty Chicago Bears QB?

Oof, major faux pas, I should have grokked this at a metaphysical level.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 30, 2024 04:03 PM (XV/Pl)

On the other hand, "The Sex Cannon" is probably the best nickname of all time.

Posted by: XTC at December 30, 2024 04:04 PM (UnA8+)

196 >>My company is being replaced by foreign labor, from the top down. Our Indian folks, great people by and large, often work more to please and check boxes for their superiors rather than create solid products. Of course the best of them are incredible, but the differences between their "good" employees and ours are often stark.

AT my last job a star employee took over management of our project group. He was Indian, as was the company's founder. He had meetings with us to discuss how things worked, what we needed from him, etc. (he came from another side of the business). Aaaaaaand then he started setting up our replacements in India. I had to train several who were supposedly there to "help out" (yeah, no). It never took for several reasons, including English proficiency and that ours being a mid-level software company, they just wanted to be there long enough to look more appealing to a bigger name employer. Fortunately for me, he was moved to another project.

I see others on X with similar stories, that after an Indian is put in charge of a project team, it quickly becomes an all-Indian project team.

Posted by: Lizzy at December 30, 2024 04:05 PM (u1uWe)

197 I know a Disney guy who had to train his H1B replacement way back in 2006

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at December 30, 2024 04:05 PM (OTdqV)

198 >>To Vivek Americans are lower caste?

>>Hard for Indians to ignore their culture, even if he is a second generation immigrant.

I think it's healthy for us to be able to have this kind of debate. But one of the ugliest aspects, not to mention one of the most ironic, is that the two biggest defenders of the program and guys who started the conversation are from South Africa and India, two of the most racist countries on the planet. Yet the reflexive response to anyone who pushed back on them was to be labeled a racist.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 30, 2024 04:05 PM (LkLld)

199 Getting me confused with a shitty Chicago Bears QB?
Posted by: Les Grossman

I thought you were the News Director for WKRP

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 30, 2024 04:05 PM (RsS92)

200 >>>The H1-B's spouses can start a business and they qualify for minority business benefits, race-based loans and grants, etc.
~~~~~

Is that how so many immigrants are able to open $1,000,000 franchise businesses like 7-Eleven?

Posted by: IrishEi at December 30, 2024 04:06 PM (3ImbR)

201 Go to LinkedIn and search for any manager and up in IT at a major company. Not many Johns or Tims. Lots of Sanjays and Nitins.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at December 30, 2024 04:06 PM (qF0hk)

202 Grants are incredibly difficult to get and are limited to specific businesses, usually not small ones.
Posted by: Piper at December 30, 2024 04:02 PM (p4NUW)

When we lost our house in the Obama years, I was told point blank that if I were black, there would be mortgage relief, but since I am white, no luck. This by Citibank. You clearly had issues with the SBA, but don't pretend there isn't a war on whitey.

Posted by: tcn in AK at December 30, 2024 04:06 PM (K861k)

203 Go to LinkedIn and search for any manager and up in IT at a major company. Not many Johns or Tims. Lots of Sanjays and Nitins.
Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at December 30, 2024 04:06 PM (qF0hk)

Hello for you. My name is Bob. Please to be telling me to help you now.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 04:07 PM (Zz0t1)

204 Blah Blah says the way to prosperity is to send anyone that is unemployed or underemployed due to an H1N1 visa to India where they can learn to code the Indian way and still have to pay income and SS taxes while living overseas so our social security will keep increasing to pay for the upkeep on our 3 homes, 2 Teslas, 1 RV and 2 Harleys. It's hard making ends meet on a fixed income at our age.

Posted by: Harriet And Blah Blah Nyborg, Lifelong democrats and moochers at December 30, 2024 04:07 PM (lX1hk)

205 176
You know what other Stupid Lie I hate?

The "low birth rate" bullshit lie.

1. It's not true.
2. I wish it were true!

We need Less people in the USA, not more.
Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 04:00 PM (bxByO)

———-

There are a lot of stupid lies people believe, even conservatives have their set of lies they believe.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at December 30, 2024 04:08 PM (I72M3)

206 >>>South Africa and India, two of the most racist countries on the planet.
~~~~~

OMG This. ^ 1,000X this.

I have been biting my tongue for the last few days but wanted so much to say this to Elon and Vivek.

Posted by: IrishEi at December 30, 2024 04:08 PM (3ImbR)

207 You clearly had issues with the SBA, but don't pretend there isn't a war on whitey.
Posted by: tcn in AK at December

I would have sued. But I guess you missed the part where I am technically not white. Or can legally claim not white status.

Posted by: Piper at December 30, 2024 04:08 PM (p4NUW)

208 I think American education has gone down the tubes compared to foreign.
I could be wrong of course.

Posted by: Skip at December 30, 2024 04:09 PM (fwDg9)

209 Getting me confused with a shitty Chicago Bears QB?
Posted by: Les Grossman

I thought you were the News Director for WKRP
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor

To da choppa!

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at December 30, 2024 04:09 PM (/CGkw)

210 >>What are these benefits?

At the company where I worked, we always included the certificate that we were a minority-owned business to RFPs, that was a boilerplate request on RFPs. We now have "minority-owned business" designation on products in stores and online (Target, Amazon), etc.

Posted by: Lizzy at December 30, 2024 04:09 PM (u1uWe)

211
Dingy! Pick up!

/rings bell

Alice is mort.

Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 04:09 PM (bxByO)

212 I think American education has gone down the tubes compared to foreign.
I could be wrong of course.
Posted by: Skip at December 30, 2024 04:09 PM (fwDg9)

I thought I saw a chart several years ago that had the US out of the top 50 globally.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 04:09 PM (Zz0t1)

213 Pfeh. Vivek always rubbed me the wrong way. Looks like my instincts were right.

Posted by: Brother Tim, Keeper of the Tim Continuum at December 30, 2024 04:09 PM (OUMaO)

214 199 Getting me confused with a shitty Chicago Bears QB?
Posted by: Les Grossman

I thought you were the News Director for WKRP
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 30, 2024 04:05 PM (RsS92)

Wonder if he ever got his traffic helicopter.

Posted by: tcn in AK at December 30, 2024 04:09 PM (K861k)

215 When we lost our house in the Obama years, I was told point blank that if I were black, there would be mortgage relief, but since I am white, no luck.

Yeah its like being published, it depends a lot on your niche identity group. Some people have a much easier time getting loans and grants than others.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 30, 2024 04:09 PM (RsS92)

216 Neera Tanden is gaslighing.

Posted by: Xipe Totec at December 30, 2024 04:10 PM (pohLc)

217 I was told by other engineers back in the 80s that you didn't want to get into drafting/CAD because you'll just be stuck looking at crt tubes all day. I get in and all the drafters are high pay contractors pulling down many multiples of what I made out of college. The "jobs that Americans won't do" is always a scam by someone trying to get leverage over someone else.

Also, I've spent the last 30 so years of my life just looking into crt then flat screens.

Posted by: banana Dream at December 30, 2024 04:11 PM (Y6IkP)

218 they qualify for minority business benefits, race-based loans and grants, etc.
___________________

None of which should exist.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 30, 2024 04:11 PM (YqDXo)

219
South Africa and India, two of the most racist countries on the planet.

_________

Whuh?

Posted by: China at December 30, 2024 04:11 PM (dxSpM)

220 Trump should ditch Elon and Vivek now. To encourage the others.

Immigration is THE reason trump won in 16 and a big part of why he won this time.

What Elon and Vivek (two foreigners) said about Americans is a huge deal. That is their mindset. We do not want people like that anywhere near trump.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at December 30, 2024 04:11 PM (uCjyK)

221 Every word of this.

On the Americans are lazy front (and if Vivek thinks Whiplash is an example of positive instruction, I feel for his kids), just how young are we expecting kids to start the corporate grind?

I'm still thinking this through so here are my initial thoughts.

Big Tech and BIg Finance hires from a small group of top universities (the Ivies, Stanford, etc).

So.

Early 20something adult has to graduate from a top tier school. Which means that person had to get into the school in the first place.

So.

18 year old kid has to get into that school. All those schools now require not only perfect grades but more or less a full blown professional resume with extra curriculars and charity work and the like. Well, that can't just start senior year, it has to be all through high school.

So.

14 year old kid has to start high school and take as many AP classes as possible while getting into the extra curricular programs needed for the resume and that can't just start freshman year of high school, that needs to start in middle school.

So.

11 year old kid has to start building a resume.

Is that really what we want?

Posted by: alexthechick at December 30, 2024 04:11 PM (PppOa)

222 Breaking911 @Breaking911 1h
BREAKING: US Treasury says its workstations hacked in cyberattack by China - AFP

Posted by: andycanuck (hovnC) at December 30, 2024 04:11 PM (hovnC)

223 I would have sued. But I guess you missed the part where I am technically not white. Or can legally claim not white status.
Posted by: Piper at December 30, 2024 04:08 PM (p4NUW)

I'm aware that you aren't white, since you said so, but the point of your post was that you didn't feel you had any privilege based upon skin color. I think that's disingenuous in today's economic climate. And if we could afford to sue, we would have been able to keep the house.

Posted by: tcn in AK at December 30, 2024 04:11 PM (K861k)

224
and...

duh!

Democrats see EVERYONE as an American.

Democrats see EVERYONE as an eligible voter, too. Literally everyone.

Posted by: Soothsayer at December 30, 2024 04:12 PM (bxByO)

225
Is that really what we want?
Posted by: alexthechick at December 30, 2024 04:11 PM (PppOa)

_________

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Posted by: Status-Anxious Upper West Side Moms at December 30, 2024 04:13 PM (dxSpM)

226 Vivek isn't a foreigner. Born in Ohio. But still 100% wrong on the issue.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at December 30, 2024 04:13 PM (qF0hk)

227 11 year old kid has to start building a resume.

Is that really what we want?
Posted by: alexthechick at December 30, 2024 04:11 PM (PppOa)

No, what we want is for Big whomever to notice that Ivy League degrees are printed on the same damned paper that everyone else's are, and you can get one for doing gender studies, for heaven's sake.

Posted by: tcn in AK at December 30, 2024 04:13 PM (K861k)

228 The "jobs that Americans won't do" is always a scam by someone trying to get leverage over someone else.

Absolutely. I'm amazed that people buy that -- how did those jobs get done before the Invasion?

Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 30, 2024 04:13 PM (UJJWg)

229 >>I have been biting my tongue for the last few days but wanted so much to say this to Elon and Vivek.

I've done business and visited both countries a few times. I was honestly more shocked by the open racism/caste system in India than I was with the racism in South Africa. It was so out in the open in India that I was embarrassed to be around it.

I think that was the most galling thing about Vivek's comment. I'm not likely to be lectured on the US's culture by a guy looking to replace my countrymen with Indian workers.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 30, 2024 04:13 PM (LkLld)

230 I think American education has gone down the tubes compared to foreign.
I could be wrong of course.
Posted by: Skip at December 30, 2024 04:09 PM (fwDg9)

I do not know how anyone could accurately assess that. That said I think us education in the suburban public schools in wealthy states is probably among the best in the world.

But even if it is not - whose fault is that? The same fucking people telling us our education sucks and we are lazy and need to be replaced by Indians.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at December 30, 2024 04:14 PM (uCjyK)

231 So.

11 year old kid has to start building a resume.

Is that really what we want?

Posted by: alexthechick

Word I hear is a lot of the winning foreign "resumes" are largely manufactured to fit a largely falsified job description.

And if you think that's bonkers, tell me again about Obama's academic records?

Posted by: Brother Tim, Keeper of the Tim Continuum at December 30, 2024 04:14 PM (OUMaO)

232 225
Is that really what we want?
Posted by: alexthechick at December 30, 2024 04:11 PM (PppOa)

______

It shouldn't be.. What we need are more plumbers, electricians and builders

Posted by: It's me donna at December 30, 2024 04:14 PM (VE6XX)

233 Did Elon or Vivek mention anything about the BoL statistics that show that on net every new job in the USA has gone to a foreign born worker?

Maybe they could comment on that.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at December 30, 2024 04:14 PM (I72M3)

234 @222

>>Breaking911 @Breaking911 1h
BREAKING: US Treasury says its workstations hacked in cyberattack by China - AFP

Looks like The Junta is going to bring down The US Monetary System on their way out the door.

Isn't that swell of them.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 30, 2024 04:14 PM (XV/Pl)

235 I work for the largest computer manufacturer in the world. I left the company a while back and returned 5 years later. When I left, Whites were fairly well-represented there. When I came back, I found it nearly completely taken over by foreigners from India. I've also noticed they've implemented their own good-ol' boy network, which I've been understanding is supposed to be racist. But apparently not so, as long as the good-ol' boys aren't white. They all socialize together, promote each other, and give each other the best positions and benefits in the company. They also get to spend their summers in India "working remotely," by which I mean, sloughing off for 3 months (one co-worker outright admitted this to me), while us remaining few Whites who don't get the same benefit, have to pick up the slack.

Posted by: Tinfoil Dispenser at December 30, 2024 04:14 PM (Ij2uN)

236 Nailed or screwed?
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 30, 2024 04:01 PM (Zz0t1)

Screwed.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 30, 2024 04:15 PM (8zz6B)

237 For a former employer, I was constantly being ask to clean up the fucking shitshows that the H-1B loosened from their bowels.

Imported mechanical engineers who can't identify a fine-thread screw from a coarse-thread screw. Guys who use black pipe for conduit and conduit for air lines.

They're all hack motherfuckers! No concept of permitting and inspections.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at December 30, 2024 04:15 PM (rl6EB)

238 >>Neera Tanden is gaslighing.

Well, she's a bigtime Democrat consultant and operative, so I would expect nothing less from her.

Recall that she was too toxic to be Biden's Director of OMB by Biden. IIRC, she was an exec at Soros' Center for American Progress, took over after Podesta left for Obama WH job.

Posted by: Lizzy at December 30, 2024 04:15 PM (u1uWe)

239 Posted by: alexthechick at December 30, 2024 04:11 PM (PppOa)

That’s exactly what my good friend’s son’s trajectory is. He’s now in the middle of college applications.

If judging by him, yes that’s what I’d like to see but I acknowledge there are other pathways. I know because I took them.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 30, 2024 04:16 PM (D6PGr)

240 My take is what else could you hear from ones who succeeded from it. It just shouldn't be their own opinions.
Doesn't mean they can't have any opinions on it.

Posted by: Skip at December 30, 2024 04:16 PM (fwDg9)

241 BREAKING: US Treasury says its workstations hacked in cyberattack by China - AFP

Posted by: andycanuck (hovnC) at December 30, 2024 04:11 PM

It's not like china can fvck us over anymore than the treasury department has already.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at December 30, 2024 04:16 PM (Rcnd3)

242 Pfeh. Vivek always rubbed me the wrong way. Looks like my instincts were right.

Honestly? Me too. I want to like him and he says a lot of the right stuff, but something feels untrustworthy about him to me. It could just be personality conflict.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 30, 2024 04:16 PM (RsS92)

243 I think that was the most galling thing about Vivek's comment. I'm not likely to be lectured on the US's culture by a guy looking to replace my countrymen with Indian workers.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 30, 2024 04:13 PM (LkLld)

A guy from a caste based society lecturing us about meritocracy and saying we spend too much time having sleep overs and watching TV to ever succeed like Indians do.

Disgusting racism that shows an absolute hatred of Americans.

Which I must say has been my experience with Indians. They think we are stupid for things like hygiene and using toilet paper and openly mock us about it.

Not all Indians of course. But Vivek is certainly leaning in to that stereotype.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at December 30, 2024 04:16 PM (uCjyK)

244 So, is the issue that we have too many open middle class jobs and that their salary is too high? Because that's why you'd bring in a bunch of H1B types. I mean to say it out loud is to answer the question.
Posted by: 18-1 at December 30, 2024 03:45 PM (oZhjI)

This misses an important element: Cost of labor must be suppressed to remain competitive. This is because inflation, done for the supposed benefit of our industries and the economy as a whole, is making all of us poorer in what we have, and wages are still not keeping up with it. Corporations are also being impoverished, and can't charge the cost of production because their consumer base, us, are being beggared to support them.
The only thing that giving support and help the the consumer class, us, who are suffering from the inflation has done so far is to raise the cost of everything.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 30, 2024 04:17 PM (D7oie)

245 Word I hear is a lot of the winning foreign "resumes" are largely manufactured to fit a largely falsified job description.

Yes. And I've been part of two video interviews of Indian programmers that were ended because it was clear the candidate was being coached by someone off screen.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 30, 2024 04:17 PM (UJJWg)

246 Word I hear is a lot of the winning foreign "resumes" are largely manufactured to fit a largely falsified job description.

And if you think that's bonkers, tell me again about Obama's academic records?

Posted by: Brother Tim, Keeper of the Tim Continuum at December 30, 2024 04:14 PM (OUMaO)

Ghost job postings to claim that the position was advertiesed but gee shucks no American applied!

Posted by: alexthechick at December 30, 2024 04:17 PM (PppOa)

247 @237

>>They're all hack motherfuckers! No concept of permitting and inspections.

You should check out the YouTube videos of Indian's reconditioning Lead Acid Batteries, barefoot.

It's a sight to behold.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 30, 2024 04:17 PM (XV/Pl)

248 So the question must be asked, if over 100k graduates a year isn't enough, then how many do we need?
Posted by: Thomas Bender
-------------------
Agree and adding on: There are about 40 colleges that have a student body with an average ACT score of 33 or higher, which puts them in the 99th percentile of all test takers. Not the be all indicator, but a decent starting point. These are educated kids - ones that know how to learn and/or test well. There are not enough college spots for all the top end students at the 40ish schools. We have a lot of very smart people in country.

Posted by: scampydog at December 30, 2024 04:17 PM (2bFN5)

249 People are tired of this shit. Losing slave labor will be the least of it if "capitalism" continues to be synonymous with oppression. The healthcare CEO murder was despicable but wildly applauded. That should be a warning that this is volatile as hell.
Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at December 30, 2024 03:44 PM (CaELB)

------------------

It would be a good thing if the geriatrics in the party were asked to retire. This long 70+ career for not just politicians and movers and shakers but in every walk of life has got to go. At present there are no entry level jobs or prospects for advancement for young people. Not everyone is like Elon and Vivek to create their own company in order to move up. With no prospects in sight of course the young people are going to go sour on capitalism.

Posted by: Decaf at December 30, 2024 04:18 PM (unUNN)

250 For a former employer, I was constantly being ask to clean up the fucking shitshows that the H-1B loosened from their bowels.

Imported mechanical engineers who can't identify a fine-thread screw from a coarse-thread screw. Guys who use black pipe for conduit and conduit for air lines.

They're all hack motherfuckers! No concept of permitting and inspections.
Posted by: Dr. Bone at December 30, 2024 04:15 PM (rl6EB)

So an issue is not just hiring them but keeping them when they are obviously not qualified.

Why would an employer do that? The payroll is not the only thing that determines the financial bottom line

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 30, 2024 04:19 PM (D6PGr)

251 H1B program developed an artificial economic environment that at the time only affected a small number of jobs. A lot of the abuse happened because nobody in government cared because these people were not citizens.

Things have changed but only a few cranks were complaining. Now because Tech has arrived in the political arena big time, it has become an issue du jour.

Frankly, my problems with non-natives is that my Chinese project manager and my Indian supervisor speak English as a second language so poorly that they can't understand each other. And in Engineering that means big problems for me because I am the one doing the work. They just "manage" stuff.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 30, 2024 04:19 PM (QB+5g)

252 "the US based managers didn't like having to do meetings in the middle of the night here"

Ah yes. My friend just retired after 25 years with a very large tech company. He's been a remote project manager working from home in the US, his staff is largely in India and Malaysia.

Interestingly, HE was the one who had to work from 10pm to 6 am to accommodate his staff. Because his employer said so.

So who has the upper hand here? At least they stayed in their own country, but that also begs the question as to how many US based tech grads were bypassed because of this structure? Or how much bright talent here has forgone this industry because it's not a promising career in light of these practices?

If I were a bright young person with an interest in electronics, I'd look into being a lineman. Hands on, hard job to export. Maybe even a prosperous future. In fact the trades are likely the only future our kids have left.

Posted by: Derak at December 30, 2024 04:19 PM (PF2UZ)

253 I'm aware that you aren't white, since you said so, but the point of your post was that you didn't feel you had any privilege based upon skin color. I think that's disingenuous in today's economic climate. And if we could afford to sue, we would have been able to keep the house.
Posted by: tcn in AK at December

I didn’t get privilege for my ethnicity. I needed a white man to co-sign for me. Granted that white man has money and I don’t, but my experience is getting a loan to start a small business wasn’t easy peasy lemon squeezey. This is why I was so mad about reports of illegals getting no doc loans.

I am sorry you lost your house, though, and were told something so heartbreakingly wrong in the process.

Posted by: Piper at December 30, 2024 04:19 PM (p4NUW)

254 "So are there entry level engineering positions being taken by similar qualified HB1s ? I don’t know but there should not be."

To a very limited degree and this is at only the big places. Where you have to watch out is places where the management has been infected with the non-western tribalism.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM

This is happening in the auto industry, specifically at Stellantis. Not necessarily with H1Bs, but definitely would remote outsourcing. The majority of the Electrical Engineers at Stellantis are BCC "engineers" in Mexico. The majority of the "engineers" in my department (product development) are BCC "engineers" in India and Brazil (and people from India living in Canada, mostly Toronto).

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 30, 2024 04:19 PM (P5BPp)

255 Word I hear is a lot of the winning foreign "resumes" are largely manufactured to fit a largely falsified job description.

And if you think that's bonkers, tell me again about Obama's academic records?
Posted by: Brother Tim, Keeper of the Tim Continuum at December 30, 2024 04:14 PM (OUMaO)

Without saying too much and doxing myself I can say I have first hand knowledge that this is the case. There is an entire industry around it in India. For $10k USD (plus another 10k or so for a us based lawyer) a company will fake an entire resume for you including educating and work history and get it ready to submit to the us govt.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at December 30, 2024 04:20 PM (uCjyK)

256 What if there was only one H1B visa and you had to bid for it?

Posted by: fd at December 30, 2024 04:20 PM (vFG9F)

257 And it’s not like they can’t fire a low performing HB 1 worker and just hire another.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 30, 2024 04:20 PM (D6PGr)

258 So an issue is not just hiring them but keeping them when they are obviously not qualified.

Why would an employer do that? The payroll is not the only thing that determines the financial bottom line

Because a staff of incompetents give you reason to hire more people. Empire building at its finest.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 30, 2024 04:20 PM (UJJWg)

259 171 Our Indian folks, great people by and large, often work more to please and check boxes for their superiors rather than create solid products.

creating solid products isn't agile.

not that i'm bitter or anything....

Posted by: anachronda at December 30, 2024 04:21 PM (v3pYe)

260
I don't think American education in the kind of STEM-Tech jobs we're talking about lags the world (yet). The Woke infection hasn't rotted them like it has the humanities.

But you know what makes kids work hard? The prize they can win. Think most American kids are going to bust their humps for a STEM-Tech degree when there's no job, or a low-paying job, or a job that's going to be offshored by the MBAs?

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 30, 2024 04:21 PM (dxSpM)

261 reaking911 @Breaking911 1h
BREAKING: US Treasury says its workstations hacked in cyberattack by China - AFP
Posted by: andycanuck (hovnC) at December 30, 2024 04:11 PM (hovnC)
~~~~~

Aren't all the workstations in private homes now?

Posted by: IrishEi at December 30, 2024 04:21 PM (3ImbR)

262 NOOD

Posted by: IrishEi at December 30, 2024 04:22 PM (3ImbR)

263 Folks, Engineering school ain't what it used to be. The kids they are graduating, don't know a pipe wrench from their own asses. It's pathetic, really.

Posted by: Xipe Totec at December 30, 2024 04:22 PM (pohLc)

264 So an issue is not just hiring them but keeping them when they are obviously not qualified.

Why would an employer do that? The payroll is not the only thing that determines the financial bottom line
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 30, 2024 04:19 PM (D6PGr)

Long term it is definitely a stupid move.

Short term it shows Wall Street you are controlling your labor costs.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at December 30, 2024 04:22 PM (uCjyK)

265 Is that really what we want?
Posted by: alexthechick

-----------------

It's basically what Asians have been doing for decades: kids lives are consumed with school and after-school tutoring from elementary school age for the sole purpose of getting accepted into a particular university and/or profession. My kids are getting homework and test grades multiple years younger than it started with me. And no, it's not what we want, but we should be closer to that than where we are. A person's opportunities shouldn't be narrowed in elementary school, but it should be much more standard for high schoolers to be tethered to career plans than they are now. We've got waaaay too many liberal arts degrees out there...

Posted by: bearski at December 30, 2024 04:23 PM (Bhsk7)

266 When we lost our house in the Obama years, I was told point blank that if I were black, there would be mortgage relief, but since I am white, no luck.

You had white privilege, yo.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 30, 2024 04:23 PM (YqDXo)

267 It would be a good thing if the geriatrics in the party were asked to retire. This long 70+ career for not just politicians and movers and shakers but in every walk of life has got to go. At present there are no entry level jobs or prospects for advancement for young people. Not everyone is like Elon and Vivek to create their own company in order to move up. With no prospects in sight of course the young people are going to go sour on capitalism.

Posted by: Decaf at December 30, 2024 04:18 PM (unUNN)

I'm upper end Gen X. All the way back in the late 90's, early 2000's, it was discussed how Gen X lawyers attempting to make partner were going to be screwed. Why?

It used to be that firms would have partnership structures that once a lawyer hit, say, 65, then that lawyer would move from partner to senior status, assuming the lawyer wanted to keep working, and then junior partners became senior partners..

Then the upper end Baby Boomers realized that they didn't want to be pushed out at 65 and changed the rules when there were enough of them as senior partners and then they made it cleear they wouldn't retire. So Gen X was stuck. Either go out on your own or never move up

Posted by: alexthechick at December 30, 2024 04:23 PM (PppOa)

268 At least the movie Outsourced was really good.

Though actual outsourcing sucks .

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 30, 2024 04:23 PM (D6PGr)

269 creating solid products isn't agile.

Whoever told you that was lying. Agility needs quality to be effective, or it just turns into churning through bug fixes.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 30, 2024 04:24 PM (UJJWg)

270 We've got waaaay too many liberal arts degrees out there...

Posted by: bearski at December 30, 2024 04:23 PM (Bhsk7)
________________

Liberal arts should be a hobby, not a major. And I minored in literature in college.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 30, 2024 04:24 PM (YqDXo)

271 221 So.

11 year old kid has to start building a resume.

Is that really what we want?
Posted by: alexthechick at December 30, 2024 04:11 PM (PppOa)

Personally? No.

But if I want to be a Horde-approved Badass?

"It's a cut-throat world and only the strongest survive."

Posted by: XTC at December 30, 2024 04:24 PM (UnA8+)

272 One of the joys that is becoming apparent from "anti-racism" training is that the people who take it, like upper middle class college educated whites who are generally targeted for this sort of thing, do not actually find a greater understanding and sympathy for minorities after the training.

What they do show is a reduced sympathy and understanding for POOR whites, with the understanding that the poor whites also have that white privilege, and they are complete, useless failures since they are unable to use that to get ahead.

This may be one of the reasons that the only ethnic group in the US that does not have a rally group is poor whites, and if you try to start one the feds will be up in your face for being a white supremacist group as soon as you print letterhead

Posted by: Kindltot at December 30, 2024 04:24 PM (D7oie)

273 "...to call for expansion of the H-1B visa program that allows employers to use foreign labor when they cannot find qualified Americans."

Ahh, that evergreen lie of not being able to find qualified Americans. No, there are qualified Americans coming out of our a**e*. What there aren't are enough CITIZENS willing to train to become an indentured servants to globalist-minded, transnationals who move labor around like widgets. What there aren't are enough employers actually trying to employ Americans when there's a foreign labor pool they can exploit to pay cheap labor wages for products they'll sell at premium, US-based prices. Yeah, it's an ultra-capitalist position but it most definitely isn't MAGA. Vivek, Elon, and Trump better recognize that or there's going to be an erosion if not toppling of support.

Posted by: AnonyBotymousDrivel Remembers Babbitt and Perna at December 30, 2024 04:24 PM (aXxgO)

274 Y'know something? This is the sort of shit that really pisses me off.

In the years just before Obama I went into debt for a "skill refresh" to hopefully build towards something in network security, to get a decent paying job and build a future. That didn't pan out entirely, but the training on the web should have helped.

It did nothing but suck money out of my wallet ever since to service the loans.

I am fiftysomething and don't make enough to afford housing. As things currently stand I have zero chance of that changing barring a miracle. I can't afford more retraining. I can't get a decent paying job. I can't afford the medical work I really need done (which is a drag on my ability to work and function). I worry about where my meals come from every so often.

Now this isn't a "poor me" post. But it is to establish why I have come to despise the wage-suppressing, opportunity-stealing bastards that infest every level of private and public managements in the modern day and age.

So Elon, stay in your lane. And Vivek, fuck the hell off.

Americans FIRST. The rest once we've got our shit together again. If then.

Posted by: Brother Tim, Keeper of the Tim Continuum at December 30, 2024 04:25 PM (OUMaO)

275 I agree. Are they? Are American engineering graduates not accepting those jobs because of the starting salary?

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM

I can only speak to what Stellantis has been doing the past 3+ years since the Plandemic with engineering positions...

Specifically in my department, product development, they no longer hire American workers as direct employees. The majority of positions are reserved for BCC remote contract house labor in India or Mexico making $33-$50k. Then there are a small amount of positions allowed for a local American contract house engineer for salary of $83k. This, for positions that had previously been direct for $90-$100k, depending on experience and skill level.

In Electrical Engineering department, I have experienced the same thing. Most of the "engineers" I've worked with on my program are BCC "engineers" in Mexico.

They even hire BCC people working remotely for HMI (human machine interface) jobs who can't be on-site to even do any actual physical work. It's insanity. All for "cost-cutting" and stock value.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 30, 2024 04:27 PM (P5BPp)

276 >>Word I hear is a lot of the winning foreign "resumes" are largely manufactured to fit a largely falsified job description.

My niece went to Harvard. Very smart girl but from a very middle class family. No connections or legacy.

Straight A student all through high school, lots of extra curricular activities including sports and volunteer work. She really earned her way in not that I think it was worth it.

But how does that stack up with a university degree from India or China or some other 3rd world country?

What's the point of building a flawless resume in the US when you are up against Bob from Bangalore and his resume isn't given the same sort of scrutiny even if is 100% real?

Posted by: JackStraw at December 30, 2024 04:28 PM (LkLld)

277 nood

Posted by: andycanuck (hovnC) at December 30, 2024 04:28 PM (hovnC)

278 I'm basically pissed off because they're saying "We don't want to teach unskilled Americans how to code."

Well, f*** you, buddy, there are plenty of us who'd like to be taught, but we can't afford to get back into college.

If the degree'd graduates don't want the entry level jobs, maybe teach us how to do them.

Posted by: XTC at December 30, 2024 04:29 PM (UnA8+)

279 H1B visa program turns into a racket from the get-go. Boy howdy, that's a real surprise, huh?

I want Trump announce sometime this year that he is working to end the Federal Government operating as racketeers that steal from the public while favoring and subsidizing the wealthy and well-connected. If you're going to go populist Mr. President, go populist big-time.

Posted by: Gref at December 30, 2024 04:30 PM (aBgBM)

280 Short term it shows Wall Street you are controlling your labor costs.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at December 30, 2024 04:22 PM (uCjyK)
__________________

I suspect companies hire management consultants for the same reason: to show Wall Street that you're with it.

When I moved to industry I once got pointers on how to do research from a silly female consultant who'd just graduated from MIT with a bachelor's degree. I literally had published more papers than she had ever read. But she billed out at $300/h to provide her wisdom on something she knew f-all about.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 30, 2024 04:31 PM (YqDXo)

281 Are Musk and Ramaswamy retarded? Do they not see that two (ahem) recent arrivals advocating for bringing over more foreigners is not a good look for them?

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 30, 2024 04:33 PM (YqDXo)

282 The left still wants a firefight.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 30, 2024 03:49 PM

For a few seconds, this place was Armageddon.

There was a FIREFIGHT!

https://bit.ly/4iT7lhr

Posted by: Paul Smecker at December 30, 2024 04:34 PM (P5BPp)

283 And I'm not saying "Indian coders are bad." Far, far from it. I've worked with tons of great Indian coders and most of them had nothing to do with H1B. I've also worked with great Russian coders and Chinese coders. But that doesn't matter, because H1B is not about technology. So just be straight about it. Say you want cheaper workers, and just do that. Farm out all the projects you want. It's your business. There's plenty of other stuff and anyone with skillz is getting a job anyway. Just don't give me that bullshit about some lake of technological expertise here. Even with the degradation of our university system into postmodern boot camp, it's laughable. The stem stuff has been the most insulated from the rot of liberal arts.

Posted by: front toward enemy at December 30, 2024 04:41 PM (TIizU)

284 Clyde,

As I said in an earlier post (I've posted a lot on this because I live here) that engineering today sucks balls.

I try not to show this to the coops I deal with or younger kids that are in love with the space program or robots and such.

If people want to make America Great Again, then they have to make Engineering Great Again.

There is no way someone starting in engineering is going to make the kind of money I have made over my career or have as interesting level of work.

Engineering has been turned into a commodity service.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 30, 2024 04:42 PM (QB+5g)

285 Clyde, this is outsourcing and really doesn't tie into the H1B argument other than if we didn't have them then even more work would go overseas because we can't produce at the rate the market demands without imported help.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 30, 2024 03:54 PM

I call BS on the last part about "can't produce at the rate the market demands".

With Stellantis, they replaced one knowledgeable, experienced, efficient American engineer on-site with 2-3 inexperienced, little to no knowledge and very inefficient "engineers" in India and Mexico.

When I was hired direct in 2011, I was responsible for a full zone of the vehicle. Over the past 2 years, they decided to lay off people like me and hire 3-4 BCC people to do the job I was doing efficiently on my own.

I currently work as team leader on a team of 4. One is good. 2 of them are useless. One I don't even know if he does any work. The other, I have to hold his hand to get him to do anything and most of the time I have to re-do or do his work for him.

I would guess the same BS is happening with H1Bs as is happening with the remote BCC outsourcing. One efficient American replaced by 2-3 inefficient foreigners.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 30, 2024 04:43 PM (P5BPp)

286 Word I hear is a lot of the winning foreign "resumes" are largely manufactured to fit a largely falsified job description.

And if you think that's bonkers, tell me again about Obama's academic records?
Posted by: Brother Tim, Keeper of the Tim Continuum at December 30, 2024 04:14 PM (OUMaO)

-----------------

And how did that work out for us?

Posted by: Decaf at December 30, 2024 04:47 PM (unUNN)

287 Jack,

No one from Harvard is doing or wants to do low-level grind it out coding.

Ever.

It turns out that American graduates don't want to either because the government has screwed with the economics of the little people at the behest of the Corporations.

And I am pretty sure she is in no danger of competition from the H1Bs unless something seriously funny is going on.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 30, 2024 04:54 PM (QB+5g)

288 Nobody needs coders when ai starts writing code

Posted by: N at December 30, 2024 05:03 PM (7neCS)

289 This is a stupid thing to be at each other over. We should be training and hiring Americans to be the best at whatever. When there are not any hire others.

Whichever you hire the affirmative actions are not getting hired.

Posted by: N at December 30, 2024 05:06 PM (7neCS)

290 We're kidding ourselves that any immigration reform can take place until we rid ourselves of the great majority - if not every single one - of the Temporary Protected Status countries and programs.

Use only legal immigration procedures, legal refugee procedures, legal Visas, and only very tightly controlled Humanitarian programs with specific goals, timing and funding. No to driving on licenses of other nations, no to providing medical if on Visas - that's your's & your nation's problem.

We've got ourselves in a quandary with those damn TPS programs and fear of ignoring DEI. The stupidity - or deviosity - of including 'statelessness' and DACA - the latter of which should have been 'settled' ages ago - is bringing the house down on the whole country. No one knows who's here 'legally' which is exactly what they intend to accomplish.

Congress has to stop funding and proposing TPS participants & now more and more Humanitarian parole; stop using taxpayers $ to feel and look 'decent.' Enact strong tracking procedures and penalties for breaking the rules. And enact strong ethic rules for itself.

Term limits!

Posted by: L - Rooster one day, feather duster another at December 30, 2024 05:58 PM (NFX2v)

291 PREACH

Posted by: VAR1ABLE at December 30, 2024 10:51 PM (pgEoc)

292 I like it when folks come together and share thoughts.
Great site, stick with it!

Posted by: Link Nostoto at December 31, 2024 12:10 AM (4C06G)

293 So glad Susie Wiles stepped up and took control....Elon and Vivek were both insulting, condescending and Elon was threatening.....these two may be billionaires, but they signed up for a job making government efficient for TRUMP, who is the boss.... so they need to STFU and start planning how to do the monumental task of streamlining our federal bureaucracy.

Posted by: Monica at December 31, 2024 04:52 AM (kfQcw)

294 Hello! Someone in my Facebook group shared this site with
us so I came to check it out. I'm definitely enjoying the
information. I'm book-marking and will be tweeting this
to my followers! Outstanding blog and wonderful style
and design.

Posted by: Call Girls India at January 02, 2025 04:27 AM (8twak)

Processing 0.05, elapsed 0.0642 seconds.
15 queries taking 0.0201 seconds, 303 records returned.
Page size 189 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.8 beta.