Sunday Morning Book Thread - 12-29-2024 ["Perfessor" Squirrel]

Welcome to the prestigious, internationally acclaimed, stately, and illustrious Sunday Morning Book Thread! The place where all readers are welcome, regardless of whatever guilty pleasure we feel like reading. Here is where we can discuss, argue, bicker, quibble, consider, debate, confabulate, converse, and jaw about our latest fancy in reading material. As always, pants are required, unless you are wearing these pants...(now 100 proof!)

So relax, find yourself a warm kitty (or warm puppy--I won't judge) to curl up in your lap, undeck those halls, and dive into a new book. What are YOU reading this fine morning?

PIC NOTE

Astute AoSHQ Sunday Morning Book Thread readers might note that the image above shows all the books I read in 2024. That's a lot of books.

Of course, this is just a drop in the vast, VAST ocean of literature enjoyed by the Moron Horde at large. The breadth and depth of knowledge displayed here every week in the comments is mind-boggling. You all are amazing!

2024 YEAR IN REVIEW

Most of the BookTube videos that show up in my YouTube feed these days fall into one of the following categories:

Best Books of 2024

Worst Books of 2024

Books to read in 2025

End-of-the-year Book Hauls

I won't bore you with my own details of what I think are the "best" and "worst" books I've read in 2024 since that's so highly subjective as to be practically meaningless. Instead, I can give you my thoughts on "memorable" reads--i.e., books or series that left an impression on me, for better or worse. I reached a rather major milestone in my life this year (crossing the 29 year mark, give or take 21 years), so I thought it would be appropriate to cross a few books/series off my "bucket list."

Malazan Books of the Fallen by Steven Erikson -- I've had this series for years after I read the first one, Gardens of the Moon and enjoyed it. I re-read it way back in January and decided to finish the entire series--all ten books--in the span of about ten weeks. I was able to achieve my goal and I really love this series. I can see why it shows up consistently in top-ten lists around the Internet. The characters are complex, the world-building is top-notch, and the action is *intense*. There were several books that I could not put down because the story gripped me and kept me reading, even if the book was 1,000+ pages (which most of them are). Just an amazing series all around. Definitely in my own top-ten list of epic fantasy reads.

Saga of the Forgotten Warrior by Larry Correia -- Like Malazan, this is amazing epic fantasy, though it's centered around mostly one character, rather than an ensemble cast. The Indian-flavored society/culture gives the series a very distinctive feel. I did find some of the action a little TOO over-the-top, as the hero survives numerous encounters that would have killed anyone else in short order. In fact, he dies himself a time or two, only to be brought back to life. That tends to lessen the stakes a bit, as we, the reader, don't feel that there's a whole lot at stake when that happens more than once. Still a fun read, just not "top ten" quality.

Foundation Series by Isaac Asimov -- This series was on my "bucket list" so I decided to get this one out of the way fairly early in the year. Asimov is always an easy read, but his stories tend to lack much *depth* to them. His short stories are much better than his novels. I found the Galactic Empire in Foundation to be rather bland and unimaginative compared to others such as the Galactic Empire in Dune or even in Star Wars (which was inspired in part by Foundation). Interesting ideas sometimes, but it's worth reading only to see how it inspired the science fiction that came afterwards, which tends to be much better.

Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons -- Another in the long list of "bucket list" items I wanted to check off. Fortunately, I found it very enjoyable, though it gets *very* weird very quickly. The first novel, Hyperion is famously modeled after Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, featuring a pilgrimage to a shrine of sorts on a far off planet. Each traveler relates their tale during the trip, and Simmons weaves those stories into a larger narrative that picks up in the later books in the series. In the end, we find out the true history of the galaxy and dark secrets that have led to the hegemony of mankind for the past thousand years or so. It's a wild ride.

Neuromancer by William Gibson -- I'd say this was my most disappointing read of the year. I wanted to like it, but just couldn't. I didn't find the world all that interesting or exciting, even though Gibson more or less coined the phrase "cyberspace." Many authors since Gibson have taken his original ideas and ran with them in far more interesting directions. Neuromancer was influential on the modern urban cyberpunk/science fiction genre, no question, but Neuromancer is not a particularly good book in my opinion (which is subjective, of course!).

Last King of Osten Ard Book 4 - The Navigator's Children by Tad Williams -- As I believe I've mentioned before, this series is definitely inspired by George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, which was itself inspired by Williams' previous series, Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn. Fortunately, Williams knows how to end an epic fantasy and he doesn't disappoint here. It was a pretty good read. He does weaken one of the supporting characters by introducing some "wokeness" that comes out of nowhere, but other than that I thought it was a good way to end his Osten Ard books, while leaving open a crack for more stories in the future.

What are some of YOUR memorable reads for 2024? Which ones disappointed you the most? Which ones brought you the most comfort and joy?

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WRITING SMART CHARACTERS

This video uses Tony Stark from the Marvel Cinematic Universe as an example of how to write a smart character, the problem exists in literature as well. How does an author convey that a character is a genius compared to the rest of the characters, especially when that character will be much smarter than the author himself?

I don't know that I have an answer to this question, but I have seen numerous examples of "smart" characters in books, such Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive. Sanderson even tackles this question in his books, as the heroes have to acknowledge that their enemy is far, far smarter than they are. One character (Taravangian) was a genius even before he Ascended to godhood and became nearly omniscient.

Genius characters can seem "crazy prepared" in that they always seem to have an answer for any situation. R.A. Salvatore's dark elf mercenary Jarlaxle is infamous for having an exit strategy for *any* scenario, no matter how perilous. Grand Admiral Thrawn from the Star Wars Expanded Universe seems to have an uncanny ability to anticipate the strategies and tactics of the heroes.

Other genius characters will exhibit some form of awesomeness by analysis, drawing connections and conclusions based on seemingly flimsy evidence that nevertheless holds up under scrutiny. They can seem very cold and calculating, but they are just crunching the numbers to determine the odds for success or failure. The conflict between Sherlock Holmes and his archnemesis Professor Moriarty is a good example of two geniuses pitting their wits against each other.

Genius characters can be fun to read, as long as they make sense within the context of the story. I think I prefer genius villains over heroes, though, as the heroes then have to find a non-intellectual way to defeat their opponent, or find a way to outthink someone who appears to have thought their way through every scenario, leaving just a tiny crack for the heroes to exploit if they can only manage to discover it.

MORON RECOMMENDATIONS

Started Watership Down this week. and i'm already happy with my choice. I read one book by Adams before, Shardik, and I remember liking that a lot but it was over 40 years ago so all the details are gone from my mind. I also reread A Christmas Carol because 'tis the season and all that. Even though I hate Charles Dickens thanks to a forced march through Great Expectations in Junior High, I love A Christmas Carol.
Posted by: who knew at December 22, 2024 10:55 AM (+ViXu)

Comment: Watership Down has been mentioned on this thread quite a bit. It seems to a popular book amongst the Horde. I shall have to endeavor to read it. I found a copy of it on the community shelf outside the English department and brought it home, but haven't opted to read it yet. Perhaps that's a good book for 2025...

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In his book Parting The Desert, Zachary Karabell tells the story of an engineering feat that changed the world. At a little over 100 miles long, a piece of Egyptian desert was transformed into the most heavily trafficked waterway in the world. Ferdinand de Lessops began digging the Suez Canal in 1854, a sea level canal that enabled ships to cut thousands of miles from the trip between the East and the West. It is still a dominant sea route to this day.
De Lessops made a deal with Said Pasha and began his dig while the Crimean War was raging. Egypt longed to restore the greatness it had known in the time of the Pharaohs, and this route through their country would revolutionize commerce, becoming the primary trade route for shipping. Fifteen years of labor would follow, and England and France would bicker over the canal and over Egypt itself for years to come. It wasn't until 1956 that Egypt would fight to actually posess this great waterway, and signal the first blow against western hegemony in the region.
While de Lessops would come to ruin trying to replicate his feat in Panama, his Suez Canal is a lasting tribute to his vision, and is still a vital route for trade today.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 22, 2024 09:25 AM (XZ9JA)

Comment: The Suez Canal is a fascinating work of engineering. On the one hand, it allows us to drastically shorten the trip for goods between Europe and the Far East (and vice versa). However, it's also situated in one of the most politically unstable regions of the planet. The ships who traverse this engineering marvel still have to dodge pirates and terrorists until they are past the Horn of Africa. It's crazy that this one little canal could transform the nations that border the passage through the Red Sea, but the tribal mentality of the people who live there will NEVER allow themselves to develop into functioning nation states.

More Moron-recommended reading material can be found HERE! (1000+ Moron-recommended books!)

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WHAT I'VE BEEN READING THIS PAST WEEK:

After reviewing some of OregonMuse's old Book Threads, I thought I'd try something a bit different. Instead of just listing WHAT I'm reading, I'll include commentary as well. Unless otherwise specified, you can interpret this as an implied recommendation, though as always your mileage may vary.

The Stormlight Archive Book 5 - Wind and Truth by Brandon Sanderson

It's too long. At 1,329 pages (hardcover), Wind and Truth is the longest single novel I've ever read. By comparison, Roger Zelazny's Great Book of Amber is an omnibus edition of The Chronicles of Amber that contains TEN full-length novels. It's only 1,258 pages long.

In the Acknowledgements, Sanderson says that every word is his, but I think he relied on too many people providing him with editorial advice. He really needed to trim out 200-300 pages. It reads like it was written by a committee at times, as we see storylines that don't really go anywhere or add much to the story, but seem to be there because someone liked those characters. All of the Interlude chapters could be excised without affecting the story in any meaningful way. I also felt that the story was overly convoluted, as if Sanderson was just showing off how needlessly complex his story was.

As others have pointed out, he also inserted some "woke" elements such as a human male and a singer male establishing an interspecies homosexual relationship for no apparent reason. There's also the woman who carries around papers declaring she's a "man" so that she can work in a male profession (smithing). This is a throw-away description and doesn't contribute to the plot in any way, shape, or form. So why include it other than to check off certain boxes?

Sanderson does have a way of wrapping up his stories, though, so while it was a bit of a slog at times, the last few hundred pages were fast-paced, with a lot of important action and dialogue. Book 5 concludes the first story arc of Sanderson's ten-book series and lays down the foundation for the next five books. I'm hoping they will be a bit shorter. If Book 6 is a 1,400-page monster, then I think I'm done with Sanderson.

Strange Highways by Dean Koontz

This is a collection of shorter fiction. It's not bad, though you can see a lot of the same elements that he includes in his longer stories, such as a government hiding a top-secret project that may lead to the end of the world. It's a change of pace, as the shorter stories move quickly and have a Twilight-Zonish payoff (this is even referenced in "Strange Highways."

PREVIOUS SUNDAY MORNING BOOK THREAD - 12-22-2024 (NOTE: Do NOT comment on old threads!)

Tips, suggestions, recommendations, etc., can all be directed to perfessor -dot- squirrel -at- gmail -dot- com.

Disclaimer: No Morons were physically harmed in the making of this Sunday Morning Book Thread. Happy New Year!

Posted by: Open Blogger at 09:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Tolle Lege

Posted by: Skip at December 29, 2024 09:00 AM (fwDg9)

2 Tolle Lege!

Hi Skip!

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at December 29, 2024 09:00 AM (PiwSw)

3 Missed it by *that* much.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at December 29, 2024 09:00 AM (PiwSw)

4 Good morning Horde. Thank you Perfessor!

Posted by: TRex at December 29, 2024 09:01 AM (hHgsA)

5 Top 5?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 09:02 AM (omVj0)

6 Top 5?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 09:02 AM (omVj0)
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You nailed it!

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 09:02 AM (BpYfr)

7 More than 1/2 way in Gilbert Martin's Churchill, a Life
Forest Gump has nothing on Winston, the man did everything

Posted by: Skip at December 29, 2024 09:02 AM (fwDg9)

8 Sweet Christmas! If that means anything to you after the holiday, you know your Marvel comics.

For the rest of you, that was the catch phrase used by Luke Cage, the alias for Power Man, the Hero for Hire. I'm reading some of his adventures in Marvel Epic Collection: Luke Cage volume II, "The Fire This Time." (The comic began as Hero for Hire and was retitled later to Power Man.)

Who is "Luke Cage"? He won't say -- because he's on the lam. Framed for a heroin rap and sent to prison, he volunteered for a comicbooky experiment that was spoiled by a sadistic guard who hoped to kill him. However, the prisoner gained "steel-hard skin and 300 pounds of solid muscle," as he frequently declares. He broke out of prison -- literally -- to hunt the man who framed him. To make ends meet, he takes free-lance jobs.

(more -- thanks, Pixy)

Posted by: Weak Geek at December 29, 2024 09:02 AM (p/isN)

9 I would rename this rendition of the ancient Greek classic "The Odd I See":

https://tinyurl.com/as8msaey

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 29, 2024 09:03 AM (oClyJ)

10 Today is Sunday.

I did not seem to realize that until about 7:35.

Posted by: rhennigantx at December 29, 2024 09:03 AM (gbOdA)

11 (continued from

Cage was Marvel's entry in the blaxploitation era. Although he bopped around the Marvel Universe -- he even confronted Dr. Doom(!) over a $200 debt -- sales of the book were meager until some bright boys teamed him with another failing genre character, the millionaire martial arts expert Iron Fist. Harlem meets the Upper West Side. Sales soared for the retitled comic, Power Man and Iron Fist. (I say "bright boys," but PM/IF reached its heights when written by a woman, Mary Jo Duffy.)

I have the Duffy run and most of Fist's first run. Superior stories all. Now I'll see how bad Cage's tales can get. (Read that how you like.)

Sweet Happy New Year!

Posted by: Weak Geek at December 29, 2024 09:04 AM (p/isN)

12 In Soviet Russia, pants wear you!

Posted by: Yakov Smirnoff at December 29, 2024 09:05 AM (OX9vb)

13 Pefessor, if you haven't yet read them, Dan Simmons had two other sci-fi books, Illium and Olympos, which are also wild rides. Recommended.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at December 29, 2024 09:06 AM (PiwSw)

14 Just purchased "Every Valley(The Desperate Lives and Troubled Times That Made Handel's Messiah) by Charles King. Seems appropriate for the season. Looking forward to diving in.

Posted by: Tuna at December 29, 2024 09:07 AM (oaGWv)

15 Made it! Good morning, Book Folken,

I'm reading Irving Wallace's The Seven MInutes from 1969. A semi-forgotten book of "erotica" is published by a NY house, but a bookseller in LA is arrested for purveying obscene material. Further, a young man from a well-to-do family has committed a rape, and he says the book incited him to do it. The story is following a young and idealistic attorney, Mike Barrett, as he defends the bookseller -- partly because he, Barrett, believes the book to be a work of art and not porno trash. His battle has already come at a cost -- and i'm barely halfway through the story.

Wallace tells a good tale, though there are a few places where he could have cut some of the dialog. The 1971 film version was apparently pretty much a B-picture directed by Russ Meyer, the gentleman famous for things like Beyond the Valley of the Ultra-Vixens, but the casting was pretty good, I guess.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 09:07 AM (omVj0)

16 Pefessor, if you haven't yet read them, Dan Simmons had two other sci-fi books, Illium and Olympos, which are also wild rides. Recommended.
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at December 29, 2024 09:06 AM (PiwSw)
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I do have them on my shelves, but I haven't gotten around to reading them yet. Probably not enough time left in 2024, so I'll have to wait until next year.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 09:08 AM (BpYfr)

17 Perfessor you put us to shame with your reading habits. Where do you find the time?

Posted by: Tuna at December 29, 2024 09:09 AM (oaGWv)

18 Nice chapeau, Perfessor!

Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 29, 2024 09:11 AM (a3Q+t)

19 The Ilium and Olympos cycle are my fav Dan Simmons books.

Posted by: 13times at December 29, 2024 09:11 AM (jak7A)

20 Larry Niven has dealt with the issue of super-bright characters. His protectors, the ancient and long-forgotten third life stage of humanity, have larger brains than humans, and they can see all the outcomes of nearly any choice. Niven has said it's a challenge to write a character who is supposed to be smarter even than the author.

Ellery Queen of the mystery world is certainly a super-brain, though he puts his success down to the careful use of logic. And Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe is a self-proclaimed genius, a "superman who talks like a superman." Stout handles that issue by never entering into Wolfe's thoughts, instead having Wolfe's "Watson," Archie Goodwin (who is brighter than average himself), narrate the stories.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 09:12 AM (omVj0)

21 Good morning fellow Book Threadists. I hope everyone had a great week of reading.

Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 09:12 AM (yTvNw)

22 Mornin', Perf and bibliophages.

Not much reading this week. Still working on the Forgotten Realms novel "Azure Bonds", which is much better than it has to be.

If I get my brain in gear (chances: slim to none) I may tackle "To Overthrow the World: the Rise and Fall and Rise of Communism" by Sean McMeekin. It was on my library request list for a coon's age. Was this a recommendation in the Book Thread?

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Agent of Chaos at December 29, 2024 09:13 AM (kpS4V)

23 Perfessor you put us to shame with your reading habits. Where do you find the time?
Posted by: Tuna at December 29, 2024 09:09 AM (oaGWv)
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I have no life. It's as simple as that.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 09:13 AM (BpYfr)

24
Finished watching a live Mass from Mission Saint-Irénée-de-Lyon, Montreal. It was a bit jarring to hear Latin spoken with a French accent. The homily was in French and English.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 09:14 AM (dxSpM)

25 I am up to when Hitler takes over, Winston didn't meet him but could have, Adolf thought he was a washed up politician so didn't bother

Posted by: Skip at December 29, 2024 09:14 AM (fwDg9)

26 Perfessor --

After you emptied your bookshelves to take that photo, did you dust them?

If so, you're better than me.

Posted by: Weak Geek at December 29, 2024 09:15 AM (p/isN)

27 Barnes and Noble stores are having a 30 percent off sale (40 percent if you are a member) on ALL hardcover books. The sale ends tonight.

Just FYI.

Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 09:15 AM (yTvNw)

28 17 Perfessor you put us to shame with your reading habits. Where do you find the time?
Posted by: Tuna at December 29, 2024 09:09 AM (oaGWv)
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He's the Banksy of book influencers. He has underlings to do his reading.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Agent of Chaos at December 29, 2024 09:15 AM (kpS4V)

29 I bought Watership Down from a Scholastic Book sales flyer. It was the book with the most pages, so I thought I'd get my money's worth.

It remains one of my favorites. The cast of characters, the mythological stories within the story, and the plot are all so very good.

Posted by: NaughtyPine at December 29, 2024 09:16 AM (JlcNN)

30 gotta do quick in-and-out this morning, so:

found my first paperback edition, 1971 copy of Camp Concentration by Thomas M. Disch the other day; a quick read with quite a punch, highly recommended
(only title of his I ever liked ... well, 334 was kind of ok ...)

O the days when sci-fi was the genre with no rules!

eh, the honeydew list calls, happy fun to all!

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at December 29, 2024 09:16 AM (cY18j)

31 Happy Sunday!
pants - check!
warm pup - check!

On my to-be-read pile - "The Path Between the Seas" by David McCollough

Posted by: Lizzy at December 29, 2024 09:17 AM (u1uWe)

32 May, 1940. Four hundred thousand British and French soldiers at Dunkirk have just learned that Belgium surrendered to the German army, and the panzer divisions are just miles away. With that surrender, the allied troops are trapped on the coast. Winston Churchill has been prime minister for just two weeks, and is faced with catastrophe.

Walter Lord, in his book The Miracle of Dunkirk, provides the definitive account of the greatest evacuation in military history. The Royal Navy, assisted by hundreds of private boat owners managed to land hundreds of craft at the beach, and extract three quarters of the troops to safety in a matter of days.

Private citizens like Charles Lightoller, former Titanic officer, took their own craft to the rescue. As Churchill said, a retreat is not a victory, but these rescued troops formed the base on which Britain built their fighting force from. This retreat was a moral victory that presaged actual victory to come, and Lord gives a detailed view of the heroism displayed.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 29, 2024 09:17 AM (R7yRq)

33 Did you guys know Keanu Reeves wrote a graphic novel? I didn't, because that sort of thing isn't on my radar. But Mr. Dmlw! likes graphic novels, and the art looked pretty cool to me, so I got him the omnibus of BRZRKR for Christmas.

He hasn't read it yet, but leafed through and liked the art and thought it looked like something he'd enjoy.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at December 29, 2024 09:17 AM (OX9vb)

34 Yay book thread! Things are picking up speed in Gilbert's Churchill biography. It's now 1941, and the Brits are on the ropes. Gilbert is clear to note when Enigma intercepts influenced Allied planning. Churchill himself was silent on this.

Lots of insights in the leap I made last week from 1935 to the second year of war and here are a few for those who are curious.

First, yes, Churchill had severe bouts of depression, and these are documented in his own letters, those of others, etc. The reason should be obvious: he was watching the whole world go down the drain and no one would listen to him. He tried to build a protest faction and was mocked for it. This is why he would take weeks off at a time and go paint, or lay bricks.

When he finally "came into his own" and became PM, new nightmares awaited, in particular the submarine campaign, which made him feel powerless, since it was just numbers on a chart.

But as we know, he did rally, often instantly, such as the time that he was walking through bombed-out ruins, eyes full of tears and a woman cried out: "See! He really cares about us!" and the crowd erupted into cheers.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 09:17 AM (ZOv7s)

35 Read "Watership Don" as a kid, have no recollection of the story. Guess I should read again. . .

Posted by: Lizzy at December 29, 2024 09:18 AM (u1uWe)

36 Guten Morgen Horde!

I'm working my way through Carol Roth's _You Will Own Nothing_. Good work thus far.

Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024 09:18 AM (5CEo8)

37 Morning all.
I got the Chronicles of Amber book as a Hannukah present. I had recently reread the first 5 after discovering them online. The book is massive and has very small print. Opened to book 6 and found it was really difficult to read. Found book 6 online , readin a couple of days. Book 7 not available online. Have to figure out how to read th massive tome.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 29, 2024 09:18 AM (t/2Uw)

38 I did the last of my Christmas reading this week. More Chesterton, William Gilmore Simms, and Washington Irving. It has been delightful. I'm going to set aside a spot on the shelves for Christmas related books so they don't get buried before next year.

Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 09:18 AM (yTvNw)

39 25, "washed up", LOL

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at December 29, 2024 09:19 AM (cY18j)

40 On my to-be-read pile - "The Path Between the Seas" by David McCollough
Posted by: Lizzy

That is a great story, told by a great writer

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 29, 2024 09:19 AM (R7yRq)

41 Just finished two Charlie Donlea novels. Pretty good. True-crime seems to be his schtick, not real true-crime investigation, but such investigations as plot devices.

I think I'll reread Elmore Leonard's "Stick" now.

Posted by: M. Gaga at December 29, 2024 09:19 AM (KiBMU)

42 Read Service Model by Adrian Tchaikovsky. A robot is left to fend for itself after the fall of humankind. A bit repetitive and in need of a ruthless editor.

Posted by: 13times at December 29, 2024 09:19 AM (jak7A)

43
I have been reading Credo: Compendium of the Catholic Faith by Bishop Athanasius Schneider.

Written in the Q-and-A form of the old Baltimore Catechism, it is a comprehensive survey of Catholic doctrine. The questions and answers are short. They are unapologetic. They are uncompromising.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 09:19 AM (dxSpM)

44 Good morning morons and thanks perfesser

Posted by: San Franpsycho at December 29, 2024 09:19 AM (RIvkX)

45 Also have a Religion book written by my aunt, so plan to read it next and a book version due in spring so will bring it up again then

Posted by: Skip at December 29, 2024 09:20 AM (fwDg9)

46 Private citizens like Charles Lightoller, former Titanic officer, took their own craft to the rescue. As Churchill said, a retreat is not a victory, but these rescued troops formed the base on which Britain built their fighting force from. This retreat was a moral victory that presaged actual victory to come, and Lord gives a detailed view of the heroism displayed.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 29, 2024 09:17 AM (R7yRq)
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One of the things I hated about the "Dunkirk" movie was how it took real-life events and jacked them up. They show a character obviously based on Lightoller and then had stupid drama to it.

Also, because it had to be cinematic, ignored the fact that the vast majority of troops were pulled off under cover of darkness, which is really amazing.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 09:20 AM (ZOv7s)

47 Thanks, Perfessor, and Happy New Year!

My most "disappoint": 'The Demon of Unrest' by Eric Larson.
Two reasons- the 'wokeness' of the preface, comparing the US right to the rebels of the Confederacy and that it was a poorly written book. Slow-moving, and filled with inconsequential details that bogged down the narrative.
In light of his previous work, a huge let-down.

Posted by: sal at December 29, 2024 09:20 AM (f+FmA)

48 Rereading a collection of Ambrose Bierce short stories. Killed at Resaca is my favorite, and would make a great short movie.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 29, 2024 09:21 AM (Dm8we)

49 found my first paperback edition, 1971 copy of Camp Concentration by Thomas M. Disch the other day; a quick read with quite a punch, highly recommended
(only title of his I ever liked ... well, 334 was kind of ok ...)

O the days when sci-fi was the genre with no rules!

eh, the honeydew list calls, happy fun to all!
Posted by: sock_rat_eez at December 29, 2024

***
Disch also wrote some fantasy in a sort of Stephen King vein: The M.D.: A Horror Story from 1991, was darn good stuff. Three others with subtitles like that (e.g., "A Tale of Terror") are listed on his Wiki page.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 09:21 AM (omVj0)

50
Barnes and Noble stores are having a 30 percent off sale (40 percent if you are a member) on ALL hardcover books. The sale ends tonight.

__________

If my local store is any indication, B&N devotes about 30% of its floor space to books.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 09:22 AM (dxSpM)

51 24
Finished watching a live Mass from Mission Saint-Irénée-de-Lyon, Montreal. It was a bit jarring to hear Latin spoken with a French accent. The homily was in French and English.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 09:14 AM (dxSpM)

I know, I thought it was kind of charming. We must sound like yokels to them...

Posted by: sal at December 29, 2024 09:22 AM (f+FmA)

52 Thanks for another dandy Book Thread, Perfessor! Always enjoyable and enlightening.

Wishing the healthiest and happiest of New Years to all my fellow Morons and may you have all the reading and writing you could possibly wish for!

Posted by: Legally Sufficient at December 29, 2024 09:23 AM (rxCpr)

53 An oddity in my TBR pile is "Cheshire Crossing", in which Dorothy Gale, Alice, and Wendy Darling meet at a boarding school that helps girls like them deal with their supernatural experiences.

It's written by Andy Weir and illustrated by Sarah Andersen. I love her sarcastic cat comics but here she adopts an anime-ish style I'm not too fond of.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Agent of Chaos at December 29, 2024 09:23 AM (kpS4V)

54 Finished watching a live Mass from Mission Saint-Irénée-de-Lyon, Montreal. It was a bit jarring to hear Latin spoken with a French accent. The homily was in French and English.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh

How's your shoulder this morning?

Posted by: Tuna at December 29, 2024 09:24 AM (oaGWv)

55 Luke Cage sounds familiar. Did Prime or Netflix do a series about this character?

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 29, 2024 09:25 AM (t/2Uw)

56 My most "disappoint": 'The Demon of Unrest' by Eric Larson.
Two reasons- the 'wokeness' of the preface, comparing the US right to the rebels of the Confederacy and that it was a poorly written book. Slow-moving, and filled with inconsequential details that bogged down the narrative.
In light of his previous work, a huge let-down.

Posted by: sal at December 29, 2024 09:20 AM (f+FmA)
--/

The preface poisoned the whole book for me, which in any case was a slog, as you say.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Agent of Chaos at December 29, 2024 09:25 AM (kpS4V)

57 Morning, Perfessor.

Howdy, Horde.

The past week's reading? Ignored the grumbling coming from the Amazing Colossal To Be Read Pile and re-read Don Robertson's merely terrific novel Mystical Union and skipped around in Barry Malzberg's essays.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 29, 2024 09:26 AM (q3u5l)

58 Reading the fifth book in the Undead Marine series written by JN Chaney and Jonathan P. Brazee, called "A Meeting of Minds."

Series has an interesting premise. Human Spec Ops soldiers in the future are killed in combat but then revived by an alien creature implanted in their brains and healed by advanced medical procedures. Humanity's vast interstellar empire is being invaded everywhere by giant bug creatures, so soldiers who can be killed and revived many times are of great benefit to the war effort.

But, they are a top secret project, are legally dead, and therefore have no rights at all.

Pretty good character development and combat scenes, though it is moving a little slowly at the moment. Enjoying it despite it's pacing.

Posted by: Sharkman at December 29, 2024 09:26 AM (/RHNq)

59
How's your shoulder this morning?
Posted by: Tuna at December 29, 2024 09:24 AM (oaGWv)

__________

Thank you for asking. It hurts, a lot. I'm seeing my chiropractor tomorrow and an orthopedic specialist on Tuesday.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 09:26 AM (dxSpM)

60 well it makes sense, harder for the Luftwaffe to snipe at them, I got my first cinematic look at Dunkirk in a small snippet of Atonement, looked like pure Chaos,

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 09:27 AM (dJR17)

61 Finished watching a live Mass from Mission Saint-Irénée-de-Lyon, Montreal. It was a bit jarring to hear Latin spoken with a French accent. The homily was in French and English.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh

***
I can hear it now. "Ehn nominay Patri' . . ."

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 09:27 AM (omVj0)

62 @55 --

Yes. I haven't watched it.

I'm tired of every black tough having to be bald. Just because Spencer's associate Hawk is, that doesn't mean it has to be the standard.

Posted by: Weak Geek at December 29, 2024 09:28 AM (p/isN)

63 Pretty good character development and combat scenes, though it is moving a little slowly at the moment. Enjoying it despite it's pacing.

Posted by: Sharkman at December 29, 2024 09:26 AM (/RHNq)

So, kind of a mashup between Old Man's War and Starship Troopers?

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at December 29, 2024 09:28 AM (PiwSw)

64 Watched the sci-fi series Andromeda recently. One of the characters was Seamus Zelazney Harper, which I assume was a nod to the author.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 29, 2024 09:28 AM (lFFaq)

65 Read "Watership Down" as a kid, have no recollection of the story. Guess I should read again. . .
Posted by: Lizzy at December 29, 2024

***
Yes.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 09:29 AM (omVj0)

66 I am about halfway through Into the Silence by Wade Davis. This is about WWI, leading up to the first expeditins on Everest. It covers the history of England's dealings with Tibet too. It's very good. I've read several books on WWI and understand how horrific it was. But the passages on WWI in this book are so awful that I've had to set it aside a few times. I'm past that now, so will finish this soon. I have some hardcover books on mountaineering, the ones signed by the authors. Will likely tackle those next.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at December 29, 2024 09:29 AM (NQtI0)

67 A second point from Gilbert is how the Munich Crisis is completely misunderstood. It has since been invoked every time a warmonger wants to stretch their legs and needs moral authority, but Munich was a very singular event.

First, it was contrived by Hitler to give an excuse to go to war. The Sudeten German "leaders" took orders from Berlin and this was known at the time because they would get one set of demands granted and then make new ones.

Second, the negative consequences for caving in were not vague or hypothetical ("Putin will invade Finland next! Then Sweden!") but immediate and known. The loss of the Sudetenland would undermine Czechoslovakia's defense system, transforming the strategic landscape. The Czechs has an excellent army, strong defenses, advanced tanks and possessed a first-rate arms industry. Given that away was insane.

Finally, the Allies had the preponderance of force. They had an overwhelming advantage. This was an easy call, and Chamberlain blew it.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 09:30 AM (ZOv7s)

68 A little like the sleeved in the altered carbon universe, clones that are decanted after their consciousness has been transferred over vast consciousness, the netflix series did it poorly, the fiirst book has a certain nourish element to it

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 09:30 AM (dJR17)

69 First, yes, Churchill had severe bouts of depression, and these are documented in his own letters, those of others, etc. The reason should be obvious: he was watching the whole world go down the drain and no one would listen to him. He tried to build a protest faction and was mocked for it. This is why he would take weeks off at a time and go paint, or lay bricks.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd

I saw an interview of either Martin Gilbert, or Andrew Roberts, his other biographer, who noted that after Churchill would lay a course of bricks and then head off to lunch, the gardener would sneak in and redo them properly. Apparently, laying bricks correctly was not one of Churhill's strengths.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 29, 2024 09:30 AM (R7yRq)

70 Read - Big Sister, Little Sister, Red Sister: Three Women at the Heart of Twentieth-Century China by Jung Chang.

The best parts of the book are the chapters on Sun Yat-sen. Red Sister liked playing the part of a downtrodden proletarian while wearing a full length chinchilla overcoat.

Posted by: 13times at December 29, 2024 09:31 AM (jnrX7)

71 I got a great big thick square book for Christmas and I'm only halfway through, but it's fascinating: The History of the Hobbit by J.D. Rateliff (it's got a big "JRR Tolkein" above the title on the cover). It's a reprint of the original unpublished manuscript of The Hobbit, with copious notes and background. (Even the notes have notes.)

The original ms. describes how the wizard Bladorthin recruits Bilbo Baggins to accompany a group of dwarves led by the exiled dwarf king Gandalf to get their gold back from the dragon Pryftan.

The notes remind us that this was first created as a series of bedtime stories for Tolkein's sons, so it draws on a lot of stuff they liked -- bears, The Wind in the Willows, Dr. Dolittle -- plus a lot of stuff Tolkein himself liked, such as Beowulf and the Eddas.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 29, 2024 09:31 AM (78a2H)

72 I think I'm going to pick up "I, Zombie," by Hugh Howey (author of the "Wool" series).

Premise is that Zombies are fully sentient and feel horrible about how evil and relentless they are, but, while sentient, they are not at all in control of their actions.

Supposed to be a really dark and sad book

Posted by: Sharkman at December 29, 2024 09:31 AM (/RHNq)

73 Read "Watership Don" as a kid, have no recollection of the story. Guess I should read again. . .

Posted by: Lizzy at December 29, 2024 09:18 AM (u1uWe)

So did I, and I barely remember. Something about Guinea Pigs?

The book was mentioned in an art thread last week...the art was rabbits on a log!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 29, 2024 09:31 AM (d9fT1)

74 My reading these days comes in smaller bits of time, and thus smaller stories.

I finished "Coffee Adventures: Quests for the perfect cuppa joe", #33 in the Raconteur Press anthology series. (They're up to 43 published anthologies now.) It was fun, and done as a partnership with King Harv, so that features throughout in some hilarious and entertaining ways. King Harv's coffee, growing on other worlds in our galaxy. Custom blends, indeed.

I've started #34, "The Super Generation". The premise is that in 1955, some unknown event happened that granted about 10% of the people on the planet super powers of varying types and degrees. This is not inheritable genetically to their descendants, and no subsequent event has happened, so this is a one-time-only type of anomaly. Granting powers to a percentage of humanity causes an massive upset in the power balance both good and bad, and so far the stories about this are pretty entertaining. This one's edited by Hinkley Correia, daughter of Larry Correia. The in-book advertisement up front is hilarious. "Dr. Terrible's Time Machine! (by Acme, no refunds.)"

These anthologies are basically pulp fiction, reborn. Fun. :-)

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at December 29, 2024 09:32 AM (O7YUW)

75 Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 09:26 AM (dxSpM)

Did you dislocated your shoulder or is it the muscle?

Posted by: dantesed at December 29, 2024 09:33 AM (Oy/m2)

76 Read "Watership Don"...

Posted by: Lizzy at December 29, 2024 09:18 AM (u1uWe)

I remember being shocked when Sonny got killed in the Toll Burrow under MacGregor's Farm by having hundreds of carrots thrown at him.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 29, 2024 09:33 AM (iJfKG)

77 I'm tired of every black tough having to be bald. Just because Spencer's associate Hawk is, that doesn't mean it has to be the standard.
Posted by: Weak Geek at December 29, 2024 09:28 AM (p/isN)
====
Yeah!
-Richard Roundtree

Posted by: San Franpsycho at December 29, 2024 09:34 AM (RIvkX)

78 Premise is that Zombies are fully sentient and feel horrible about how evil and relentless they are, but, while sentient, they are not at all in control of their actions.

Supposed to be a really dark and sad book
Posted by: Sharkman at December 29, 2024 09:31 AM (/RHNq)
---
Ah, the old "were not bad, just made to do it, it's the good guys who are truly bad, pity us for drinking their blood."

First vampires, now zombies.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 09:34 AM (ZOv7s)

79 My most memorable this year is Paul Theroux's Burma Sahib, in which a 19-year-old Brit enlists as a policeman, a five-year stint in the muddy river Burmese jungles, 1920s British Raj, experiencing political power and its horrors. He discovers his writing voice and takes George Orwell as his nom de plume.

Posted by: M. Gaga at December 29, 2024 09:34 AM (KiBMU)

80 Premise is that Zombies are fully sentient and feel horrible about how evil and relentless they are, but, while sentient, they are not at all in control of their actions.

Supposed to be a really dark and sad book
Posted by: Sharkman at December 29, 2024 09:31 AM (/RHNq)
=-==
Like in the Tenderloin.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at December 29, 2024 09:35 AM (RIvkX)

81 One of the things I hated about the "Dunkirk" movie was how it took real-life events and jacked them up.
=========================
Hollywood has always, and (what's left of it), will always do this: Add fake drama into real stories, stories that need no extra drama. The reason they are stories, and still in the collective memory, is that they are intrinsically dramatic. Why did Cameron invent the idiotic romance in "Titanic"? As if the sinking of the Titanic needed any more drama inserted into the true narrative.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at December 29, 2024 09:35 AM (lPeS+)

82 Finished listening to Wind and Truth. One theme of various Cosmere books seems to be the sudden rejection of magical
power being used offensively by the rejector.

Listened to the library audiobook of Tress of the Emerald Sea. I guessed a portion of the ending, but not how Sanderson would make everything work out.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 29, 2024 09:36 AM (lFFaq)

83 Read a bunch as a kid and loved Watership Down. A boy in 8th grade signed my yearbook with, Watership Down is really about rabbits. He kept thinking it was something else. But he also bought into the Paul is dead via Sgt. Peppers album cover conspiracy stuff and did a project on that so go figure.
Happy reading in the new year all!

Posted by: Paisley at December 29, 2024 09:36 AM (ny1NG)

84 we speak with perfect hindsight, Chamberlain couldn't know this would be the result, he envisaged another horror like the last one, of ypres the Somme Verdun, did he think France would be overrun as it turned out,

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 09:37 AM (dJR17)

85 Just added up my books read for the year: 88. Not bad since that's almost two books a week. We shall see if I can beat that number next year!

Thanks for the inspiration, Perfessor!

Posted by: Legally Sufficient at December 29, 2024 09:37 AM (rxCpr)

86 Happy New Year to all of you Moron book enthusiasts. Wishing you all a great year of reading and hoping that you all have a blessed and fruitful new year.

Posted by: RetsgtRN at December 29, 2024 09:38 AM (J+irZ)

87 It's been a good week for acquiring books. Between the used book store, Amazon and B and N I picked up nice paper editions of two of the few CS Lewis books I didn't already have, hardcovers of Lewis Carroll with John Tenniel illustrations , Brothers Grimm with Arthur Rackham illustrations, and Old Time Hawkey's Cedar Swamp Cookbook. (I'll have more to say about the cookbook next week.)

I'm a fan of the B and N hardcover Classic series and I have a lot of them. The books are nicely bound and they use quality paper and decent size fonts. Well made books add to my enjoyment of reading. I think for the price, especially when on sale, they are a good value. The exceptions are when the classics, like Homer, are translations. They typically use public domain translations and I'm persnickety about translations these days. (Jules Verne is a prime example). Their Count of Monte Cristo looks great but I prefer the Robin Buss version.

Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 09:38 AM (yTvNw)

88 I have to say that while I've long been a student of military history and WW II, it was not until the last couple of years that I came to understand just how robust the Czech arms industry was. Skoda and Brno were two of the biggest arsenal towns in Europe, and giving those to Hitler was insane by any measure. While Germany was under Versailles, Brno was cranking out product-improved Kar98s (soon regularized as the 98k) by the hundreds of thousands.

The windfall of Munich was basically the full equipment for three dozen division, which completely shifted the balance of power in 1939.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 09:38 AM (ZOv7s)

89 Hollywood has always, and (what's left of it), will always do this: Add fake drama into real stories, stories that need no extra drama. The reason they are stories, and still in the collective memory, is that they are intrinsically dramatic. Why did Cameron invent the idiotic romance in "Titanic"? As if the sinking of the Titanic needed any more drama inserted into the true narrative.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at December 29, 2024 09:35 AM (lPeS+)
---
Remember, these are the same creative geniuses that thought we needed a story about black women delivering a backlog of mail during WWII. (The Six Triple Eight on Netflix.)

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 09:38 AM (BpYfr)

90 1300+ pages of Sanderson at one time? Bah, I never finished Rhythm of War so instead of restarting there after getting Wind and Truth, I've started the whole series over again. Been several years since I read Way of Kings. Making quick progress since I've been sick over the holidays. I'm sure to have Sanderson burnout after this. Read all of the Mistborn related books in 2024.

Posted by: cheztrainor at December 29, 2024 09:38 AM (y1P/6)

91 Is anybody still keeping up with the Bob and Nikki books? I crashed and burned after Book 8. It was just too tough keeping all the characters straight...

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at December 29, 2024 09:39 AM (PiwSw)

92 did he think France would be overrun as it turned out,
Posted by: miguel cervante
__________

No. Nobody thought that. Including the Germans.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 29, 2024 09:39 AM (Dm8we)

93 So far I've typed and deleted three comments about praying in French.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at December 29, 2024 09:39 AM (RIvkX)

94 29 I bought Watership Down from a Scholastic Book sales flyer. It was the book with the most pages, so I thought I'd get my money's worth.
Posted by: NaughtyPine at December 29, 2024 09:16 AM (JlcNN)

Sound method!

Every one of us five kids read that when it was a new book. By the time we were all done with it, it was pretty ragged. I barely remember it, though, and am adding myself to the list of those who are thinking of re-reading it. Will probably be much different now that I'm a grownup.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at December 29, 2024 09:40 AM (OX9vb)

95 Read Vasily Grossman and the Soviet Century by Alexandra Popoff.

Excellent biography.

Posted by: 13times at December 29, 2024 09:40 AM (uTXDd)

96 Over the past year I blew through Joe Abercrombie's "First Law" series... all three trilogies....and just finished the short story collection last night.

While there are certainly woke elements of the series - including an overabundance of homo, it doesn't get in the way of the story and overall plot.

It's very dystopian, grimdark even. There are really no "good guys" but there are definitely characters that you develop sympathetic feelings for - and there are definitely character arcs in both directions - from "good guy" to "evil bastard" and everything in between.

I think my favorite book out of all of them is "Best Served Cold" which is a traditional revenge story wrapped up in a Renaissance-era Italian city-state type of world.

Posted by: Defenestratus at December 29, 2024 09:41 AM (bkK9+)

97 I saw "Dunkirk," but I don't remember any of it other than how bland the evacuation seemed to be: arrive at Dunkirk, load boat, sail to Britain, repeat.

I had thought the volunteers had arrived in flotillas.

Posted by: Weak Geek at December 29, 2024 09:41 AM (p/isN)

98 >>Supposed to be a really dark and sad book

Oh. I enjoyed the first two Wool books but couldn't get through the third.

Posted by: Lizzy at December 29, 2024 09:41 AM (u1uWe)

99 Wait. There are no science fiction books about H1B visas? I've recently gotten the impression every horde member was a Subject Matter Expert on H1B visas. It certainly seems to come up in every thread so I figured naturally most people here spent their spare time reading about H1B visas.
So confused.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 29, 2024 09:41 AM (dg+HA)

100 that there would be a collaborationist government like the vichy, which would be more draconian against their countrymen then the Germans themselves,

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 09:41 AM (dJR17)

101 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 29, 2024 09:42 AM (Zz0t1)

102 Happy New Year week, everyone.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 29, 2024 09:42 AM (Zz0t1)

103 So confused.
Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 29, 2024 09:41 AM (dg+HA)
====
Hey I'm dumb but I know sarcasm when I read it!

Posted by: San Franpsycho at December 29, 2024 09:43 AM (RIvkX)

104 I think budget constraints kept the Dunkirk film from showing us the real scale of the operation. It was basically about how a couple of boats got a couple of guys off a deserted beach with the help of one plane.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 29, 2024 09:43 AM (78a2H)

105 >>Hollywood has always, and (what's left of it), will always do this: Add fake drama into real stories, stories that need no extra drama.

Yes. Especially evident when they remake foreign films.
Subtlety, what's that?

Posted by: Lizzy at December 29, 2024 09:43 AM (u1uWe)

106 we speak with perfect hindsight, Chamberlain couldn't know this would be the result, he envisaged another horror like the last one, of ypres the Somme Verdun, did he think France would be overrun as it turned out,
Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 09:37 AM (dJR17)
---
He was completely delusional and insufferably arrogant. He did everything in his power to keep Britain militarily weak because he thought this would show his good intentions.

He even refused to even *discuss* wartime conversion of industries, and when war started, wanted to do as little as possible. His stooge Halifax kept wanting to open of "peace talks" as if the Germans weren't committed to war.

Absolute moron. A great counterfactual is if Baldwin has a stroke, Chamberlain choked on a pit, and literally anyone else is in charge and simply fulfills the rearmament programme as written, rather then trying to revise it downwards.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 09:44 AM (ZOv7s)

107 I dated a girl who's favorite author was Dean Koontz. We're not together anymore. She cheated on me when she went away to college and was a reasonably selfish individual.

I've never read his stuff, maybe because she ripped my heart out and wiped her ass with it. Not sure.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 29, 2024 09:44 AM (Zz0t1)

108 One other point maybe about Winston's depression could be so far in the book relatives of his seem to die early and it mentions he thought that was a family trait he would also follow, unwilling of course.

Posted by: Skip at December 29, 2024 09:44 AM (fwDg9)

109 Read "Watership Don" as a kid, have no recollection of the story. Guess I should read again. . .

Posted by: Lizzy at December 29, 2024 09:18 AM (u1uWe)

So did I, and I barely remember. Something about Guinea Pigs?

The book was mentioned in an art thread last week...the art was rabbits on a log!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 29, 2024

***
No, wild English rabbits. They're very British in the way they talk, which is part of the fun.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 09:44 AM (omVj0)

110 Watership Down was a very good read. Couldn't get into Shardik though.

Currently restarting my read through Katherine Kurtz Deryni series (series-es?). What do you call it when an author writes multiple trilogies in the same universe?

-SLV

Posted by: Shy Lurking Voter at December 29, 2024 09:45 AM (e/Osv)

111 Just added up my books read for the year: 88. Not bad since that's almost two books a week. We shall see if I can beat that number next year!

Thanks for the inspiration, Perfessor!
Posted by: Legally Sufficient at December 29, 2024 09:37 AM (rxCpr)

88

HH

Heil Hitler

You're a Nazi.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 29, 2024 09:45 AM (Zz0t1)

112 Wait. There are no science fiction books about H1B visas? I've recently gotten the impression every horde member was a Subject Matter Expert on H1B visas. It certainly seems to come up in every thread so I figured naturally most people here spent their spare time reading about H1B visas.
So confused.
Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 29, 2024 09:41 AM (dg+HA)

Though rusty, my experience is with H2a visas who's employment and protection is in the MSPA section of the FLSA part of CFR 29, and I always encourage people to read if if they are engaged in agriculture, and related industries, and are using contract and seasonal labor.

Posted by: Kindlotot at December 29, 2024 09:45 AM (D7oie)

113 The other book I got, which I haven't dipped into yet, is about abandoned and never-built subway systems in the US and Canada.

It's "wide-ranging interests," not ADHD.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 29, 2024 09:46 AM (78a2H)

114 Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 29, 2024 09:41 AM (dg+HA)

So you *had* to drag in the subject since no one else had?

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 29, 2024 09:46 AM (lFFaq)

115 I saw "Dunkirk," but I don't remember any of it other than how bland the evacuation seemed to be: arrive at Dunkirk, load boat, sail to Britain, repeat.

I had thought the volunteers had arrived in flotillas.
Posted by: Weak Geek at December 29, 2024 09:41 AM (p/isN)
---
For the first few days, they arrived as they could, and German airpower took a heavy toll. After that, they shifted to more organized movements, with ships gathering during daylight in British harbors, and setting off in organized groups at dusk. The small boats were directed to specific beaches while the big ships went for the mole at Dunkirk, but it was known that daylight meant death.

I've read Miracle at Dunkirk many times, so as I sat through the movie I was stirring restlessly in my seat at everything they botched.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 09:47 AM (ZOv7s)

116 I bought Watership Down from a Scholastic Book sales flyer. It was the book with the most pages, so I thought I'd get my money's worth.
Posted by: NaughtyPine at December 29, 2024 09:16 AM (JlcNN)

Sound method!

Every one of us five kids read that when it was a new book. By the time we were all done with it, it was pretty ragged. I barely remember it, though, and am adding myself to the list of those who are thinking of re-reading it. Will probably be much different now that I'm a grownup.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at December 29, 2024

***
I read it first as a grownup, at 25, and was utterly captivated.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 09:47 AM (omVj0)

117 I read Cause For Alarm by Eric Ambler. Some believe Ambler is the inventor of the modern suspense novel. In this work Nicky Marlow is in London in 1937. He is engaged to be married and needs a job. Although he is an engineer, he takes a position as the manager for Spartacus Machine Tools' office in Milan. His predecessor met a sinister death, and he is soon courted by agents with dangerously different agendas. The Italian secret police finds him to be a spy which leads to a long, harrowing escape from Italy to the Yugo-Slav border. A realistic thriller.

Posted by: Zoltan at December 29, 2024 09:47 AM (OAKaM)

118 I think some of the best ongoing themes in Abercrombie's First Law trilogies are "trying to do the right thing" and "you have to be reasonable about things".

In the former's case - many of the mistakes, blunders, catastrophes and atrocities in the series happens due to characters just "trying to do the right thing". In the latter's case - many times a clearly negative outcome is avoided by otherwise unreasonable characters (for example, a viking-like berserker) moderating his desire to affect the outcome of events out of their control.

Lessons I think that the left needs to learn in today's world.

Posted by: Defenestratus at December 29, 2024 09:47 AM (bkK9+)

119
Lessons I think that the left needs to learn in today's world.
Posted by: Defenestratus at December 29, 2024 09:47 AM (bkK9+)

Surely you jest.......

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 29, 2024 09:48 AM (Zz0t1)

120 The movie Dunkirk stands out in my memory as a movie I hated. For one reason: the background music was so irritating. It sounded like machinery noise and just grated on my nerves for about half of the movie. If nothing else it raised my awareness of the importance of the musical score to the overall audience experience.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 29, 2024 09:49 AM (dg+HA)

121 Posted by: Shy Lurking Voter at December 29, 2024 09:45 AM (e/Osv)

I enjoyed them quite a bit.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 29, 2024 09:49 AM (lFFaq)

122 I saw "Dunkirk," but I don't remember any of it other than how bland the evacuation seemed to be: arrive at Dunkirk, load boat, sail to Britain, repeat.

I had thought the volunteers had arrived in flotillas.
Posted by: Weak Geek

The movie, though well intentioned, didn't do justice to how large, diverse, and dangerous the operation was. Fishing boats, private boats, and RN destroyers rushing back and forth to pluck soldiers off of the beach. And, a contingent of French troops held off the German infantry to buy time, knowing they would be the first POWs. The director doesn't use CGI, so his depiction is just the number of actors and ships he employed.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 29, 2024 09:49 AM (R7yRq)

123 Currently restarting my read through Katherine Kurtz Deryni series (series-es?). What do you call it when an author writes multiple trilogies in the same universe?

-SLV
Posted by: Shy Lurking Voter at December 29, 2024 09:45 AM (e/Osv)
---
Brandon Sanderson calls his "The Cosmere."

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 09:49 AM (BpYfr)

124 as an industrlalist, that was his previous gig, he should have known better,

it was still a close run thing, for the UK to prevail under the barrage of the Luftwaffe, there was no incursion onto the mainland till Dieppe if memory served and then Torch, which went the long way through North Africa, through the underbelly of Italy

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 09:50 AM (dJR17)

125 Read a few Rex Stout - Nero Wolfe books.

Best quote;

“In the past dozen years,” Cramer said in his ordinary growl, without any particular feeling, “you have told me, I suppose, in round figures, ten million lies.”

“The commas were chews on his unlighted cigar.”

Posted by: 13times at December 29, 2024 09:50 AM (BejIc)

126 I read Cause For Alarm by Eric Ambler. Some believe Ambler is the inventor of the modern suspense novel. In this work Nicky Marlow is in London in 1937. He is engaged to be married and needs a job. Although he is an engineer, he takes a position as the manager for Spartacus Machine Tools' office in Milan. His predecessor met a sinister death, and he is soon courted by agents with dangerously different agendas. The Italian secret police finds him to be a spy which leads to a long, harrowing escape from Italy to the Yugo-Slav border. A realistic thriller.
Posted by: Zoltan at December 29, 2024

***
I'll have to look for that one!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 09:50 AM (omVj0)

127 The movie Dunkirk stands out in my memory as a movie I hated. For one reason: the background music was so irritating. It sounded like machinery noise and just grated on my nerves for about half of the movie. If nothing else it raised my awareness of the importance of the musical score to the overall audience experience.
Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 29, 2024 09:49 AM (dg+HA)
---
The opening sequence was totally retarded. Why are the troops running without covering each other? Where are the shots coming from? Why aren't they retreating under cover of darkness, like it was in reality? Just dumb Hollywood trying to make things look really cool.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 09:51 AM (ZOv7s)

128 I saw Dunkirk, along with a few other movies, as a captive audience on a flight to Europe. I remember not thinking it was too bad. I didn't know the story, so I was intrigued by it. They way they kept jumping back to show each side of the events that happened throughout was a bit odd.

The one I hated was the 'award winning' Three Billboards one. That movie sucked balls. All I got out of that one was, our military was evil and everyone went over there to light innocent villagers on fire and roast marshmallows on their burning corpses.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 29, 2024 09:52 AM (Zz0t1)

129 as i say atonement, captured the chaos in service of the larger story,

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 09:52 AM (dJR17)

130 I also _gave_ some interesting books this Christmas. Sabers of Paradise, about the Imperial Russian conquest of the Chechens, said to be an influence on Frank Herbert's Dune. Also a book by Michael Palin about his great-uncle who died young in WWII.

My Christmas book shopping method has attracted criticism, but I still think it's the best: I get a bunch of books that look good, and then figure out who to give them to. My reasoning is that people with particular interests (gardening, the Civil War, whatever) will know much better than I what books they want and what books aren't worthwhile, so I shouldn't try to out-guess them. Instead I surprise them with things they might never have heard of.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 29, 2024 09:53 AM (78a2H)

131 “In the past dozen years,” Cramer said in his ordinary growl, without any particular feeling, “you have told me, I suppose, in round figures, ten million lies.”

“The commas were chews on his unlighted cigar.”
Posted by: 13times at December 29, 2024 p/i]

***
I remember the Cramer quote, but not which book it's from.

The best Wolfe-Cramer exchange to me comes from Murder By the Book in the 1950s:

Cramer (to Wolfe): "What will you do in the meantime?"
Wolfe: "Sit here."
Cramer: "Someday you'll get chair sores."

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 09:53 AM (omVj0)

132 I got Wind in the Willows and read the fifth chapter on Trimegistus's recommendation last week. Glad he mentioned it. Very sweet look at the characters and the nature of Home.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 29, 2024 09:53 AM (lFFaq)

133 Hollywood has always, and (what's left of it), will always do this: Add fake drama into real stories, stories that need no extra drama. The reason they are stories, and still in the collective memory, is that they are intrinsically dramatic. Why did Cameron invent the idiotic romance in "Titanic"? As if the sinking of the Titanic needed any more drama inserted into the true narrative.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at December 29, 2024 09:35 AM (lPeS+)

Well, hell. I guess I get to defend Cameron here.

Not that they're at the same level, but that's a bit like saying, "That stupid Shakespeare! Why'd he have to insert that idiotic romance stuff into "Romeo and Juliet". You'd think a blood rivalry between the Montagues and Capulets would be plenty drama enough!"

What you're arguing for is a documentary, instead of a dramatic film and there are few things more dramatic, and incidentally, more likely to draw the female audience, than a doomed or tragic young romance. Cameron, it's clear, wanted to do a technical film about the Titanic and how it sank but wrapped a doomed romance into the movie to get an audience to justify the cost.

(con't)

Posted by: naturalfake at December 29, 2024 09:53 AM (iJfKG)

134 CBD, the English Guinea pig stories you are thinking of might be the Olga da Polga books by Michael Bond, the author who also wrote the Paddington Bear stories

If you liked the Paddington Bear stories as a kid and want some adult focused stories as well, he also wrote the Monsieur Pamplemousse series, about the retired French detective, his cashiered drug sniffing dog, Pomme Frittes, and various odd occurences made odder by Pamplemousse's paticipation

Posted by: Kindlotot at December 29, 2024 09:54 AM (D7oie)

135 I'm glad I skipped that one,

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 09:54 AM (dJR17)

136 Another thing about Chamberlain: classic corporatist. Actual wartime planning might disrupt profitability. Can't have that!

The economy was not doing so well and elections were looming in 1940. Best not alarm people or create disruptions by preparing national defenses. Instead, let's just surrender everything our enemies want!

And then he digs on...Poland?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 09:54 AM (ZOv7s)

137

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 09:54 AM (omVj0)

138 137

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 09:54 AM (omVj0)

Posted by: Mitch McConnell at December 29, 2024 09:55 AM (Zz0t1)

139 Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 09:51 AM (ZOv7s)

Sounds like you may have the subject for a new book.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 29, 2024 09:55 AM (lFFaq)

140 Robert Crais has a new one coming next month, #20 in the Elvis Cole and Joe Pike series. We've greatly enjoyed the previous 19.

There's always food. He got us into cottage cheese pancakes. Yum!

Posted by: M. Gaga at December 29, 2024 09:56 AM (KiBMU)

141 the other tellings of the story, did rely on that contrivance, but it had been half a century since the last retelling, and technology allowed Cameron to capture the scale of the disaster, the hubris of it,

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 09:56 AM (dJR17)

142 On my to-be-read pile - "The Path Between the Seas" by David McCollough
Posted by: Lizzy at December 29, 2024 09:17 AM (u1uWe)
* * * *
Excellent book! I first read it shortly after we arrived in Panama and have read it at least two more times. The Canal is a feat of engineering and medical progress unequaled in all the world.

Posted by: Legally Sufficient at December 29, 2024 09:56 AM (rxCpr)

143 Just thought I'd poke my head in.

For the past month or so I've been plowing through The Silmarillion. It's the kind of work where I have to take a break from it and read something else. Tolkien is awesome but damn...Sil reads like the Bible most of the time.

Also reading the Silo series. Much easier to digest.

On the comments of the Foundation series...even Asimov allowed that he wasn't a great author in the novel length space. He is great at the overarching ideas and concepts, but when it comes to just plain character development, motives, decisions, dialogue...he doesn't spend a lot of time on it. I love the series because it does spark the imagination and the reader can kind of fill in the blanks...but as a novel it really isn't one, and it's frankly unfilmable as a movie or TV show unless a LOT of liberties are taken which ultimately destroys the source material anyway.

Posted by: WitchDoktor at December 29, 2024 09:57 AM (XPgIE)

144 Posted by: Kindlotot at December 29, 2024 09:54 AM (D7oie)

I was joking....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 29, 2024 09:57 AM (d9fT1)

145 Sounds like you may have the subject for a new book.
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 29, 2024 09:55 AM (lFFaq)
---
Maybe an essay. Counterfactuals can be interesting, but I find alt-history dull.

Besides, who wants to read a taught thriller about how we won WW II in 1940?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 09:57 AM (ZOv7s)

146 131 >>>> Wolfus

Help Wanted, Male.

Posted by: 13times at December 29, 2024 09:58 AM (4aeJs)

147 (con't)

Not that the romantic story was any great shakes, but it was massively successful, so mission accomplished.

In fact, there was a Brit Titanic movie more in lines with your desires for a documentary approach titled, "A Night to Remember",

it was a titanic(!) flop.

But, you should give it a watch and serif you find that approach better story-telling and movie-making.

I think as a general rule, particularly;y in movies, people want a clear "hero" who will lead them through the world of the story.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 29, 2024 09:58 AM (iJfKG)

148 I liked Dunkirk, won't be putting it in any top war movies

Posted by: Skip at December 29, 2024 09:58 AM (fwDg9)

149 the other tellings of the story, did rely on that contrivance, but it had been half a century since the last retelling, and technology allowed Cameron to capture the scale of the disaster, the hubris of it,
Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 09:56 AM (dJR17)
---
Cameron made Lightoller a villain, had to apologize and put up a statue to him.

What a jackass.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 09:59 AM (ZOv7s)

150 To this day, I believe Cameron did his Titanic movie solely in order to get audiences to pay for him to visit the wreck site in multi-million dollar submersibles.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 29, 2024 09:59 AM (R7yRq)

151 In fact, there was a Brit Titanic movie more in lines with your desires for a documentary approach titled, "A Night to Remember",

Posted by: naturalfake at December 29, 2024 09:58 AM (iJfKG)
---
Based on the book by...wait for it...Walter Lord!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:00 AM (ZOv7s)

152 Not exactly an example of writing a genius character, but --

Of the Michael Crichton books I've read, my favorite is Binary, an early novel under his John Lange pseudonym. The villain intends to set off a nerve gas bomb in a major city during one of the big political conventions. He's been under surveillance and knows it; further, he knows the identity of the lead agent watching him and has managed to get his hands on the agent's personnel records including psychological profiles. The agent realizes that plans for the explosion have factored in his own approaches to a problem -- he has to outthink the bad guy, but he also has to outthink himself. It's a nice piece of work.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 29, 2024 10:00 AM (q3u5l)

153 I may not have read many books in December, but I'll take credit for buying ten. My beloved daughter in law texted me an Amazon list of selections for her (thank goodness) homeschooled brood. Not being local to me I'm happy to assist in any way I can. So thanks to Al Gore's Amazing Internet™ clickety clickety clickety Bob's Your Uncle and done.
Have already received positive feedback on a number of the selections.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 29, 2024 10:01 AM (dg+HA)

154 Happy New Bookzz Horde!

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at December 29, 2024 10:01 AM (z3n3v)

155 I liked the few Michael Bond Monsieur Pamplemousse books I read, though they might get a little tiresome if you read them all end to end. It is similar to P G Wodehouse.

The Olga da Polga books were good when I was a kid, but they were not fantastic. At least they did not really grab my attention.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 29, 2024 10:01 AM (D7oie)

156 I detect a theme emerging: "Why Movies Based On Events Described by Walter Lord Books Suck."

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:01 AM (ZOv7s)

157 Titanic does have one thing going for it for it.

In Rose, he created what is easily the most evil villain ever written.

Posted by: WitchDoktor at December 29, 2024 10:02 AM (XPgIE)

158 but there were elements of fate, other ships including the calpurnia (sic) had spotted the iceberg, but the telegraph room had gone off shift,

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 10:02 AM (dJR17)

159 Titanic does have one thing going for it for it.

In Rose, he created what is easily the most evil villain ever written.
Posted by: WitchDoktor at December 29, 2024 10:02 AM (XPgIE)

And boobs.

Posted by: Mitch McConnell at December 29, 2024 10:02 AM (Zz0t1)

160 131 >>>> Wolfus

Help Wanted, Male.
Posted by: 13times at December 29, 2024

***
Oh, one of his early novelettes, I think? Stout was often at his best in the shorter Wolfe stories; they tell a full-scale mystery in a smaller space, and often give us a clever mystery puzzle he sometimes couldn't manage in the longer tales. See "The Gun With Wings" and "Die Like a Dog" for examples.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:02 AM (omVj0)

161 Crap......

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 29, 2024 10:02 AM (Zz0t1)

162
Not that the romantic story was any great shakes, but it was massively successful, so mission accomplished.

__________

Rose should have given up her place in the boat to some poor immigrant woman from steerage. It would have been better for her and society in general for her to freeze and drown.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 10:03 AM (dxSpM)

163 like Jennie from the Forrest Gump films,

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 10:03 AM (dJR17)

164 Thank you, Perfessor, for another book thread. That's an impressive reading list! I read about 36 books last year. My goal was one per week. Maybe I'll do better next year.

As far as current reading goes, I again set aside Brideshead revisited. I just don't have the attention span right now to settle into it.

I did start The Old Man in the Corner by Baroness Orczy. It seems to be a series of crime stories told to a young female reporter by an odd old man who frequents the same restaurant at lunch time. It's entertaining and light.

Posted by: KatieFloyd at December 29, 2024 10:03 AM (INlA+)

165 Cameron made Lightoller a villain, had to apologize and put up a statue to him.

What a jackass.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd

Lightoller was one of the very few heroes among the crew of the Titanic. He, along with Harold Bride performed their duties admirably, and miraculously survived.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 29, 2024 10:03 AM (bJeqI)

166 That's okay. Douglas Haig thought horses and swords would win against machine guns. The Brits have been poorly governed for a long time

Posted by: Notsothoreau at December 29, 2024 10:04 AM (NQtI0)

167 I can't linger long, this morning. There is fresh snow on the local mountain, and I must snowboard on it...

Over Christmas, I was away from my physical (comic) books, and so dove into some digital comics. One of which was a mini-series titled "Thund'Da." It falls into the same genre as Tarzan; a pilot crashes in some mysterious out-of-time valley in Africa, joins up with some cave-men living in some ancient ruins, fights some ape-men riding mamoths....that sort of thing. It wasn't bad, but it never rose above the standard pulp-style adventure.

The only notable aspect of Thun'Da was that it was a revival of a short-lived 60's comic of the same name, which just happened to have been drawn by a then up-and-coming illustrated by the name of Frank Frazetta.

Posted by: Castle Guy at December 29, 2024 10:04 AM (Lhaco)

168
Maybe an essay. Counterfactuals can be interesting, but I find alt-history dull.

_________

I stopped reading alt-history because the alternatives were preposterous and the writing routinely terrible.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 10:04 AM (dxSpM)

169 Lightoller was one of the very few heroes among the crew of the Titanic. He, along with Harold Bride performed their duties admirably, and miraculously survived.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 29, 2024 10:03 AM (bJeqI)
---
Isn't that typical Hollywood, though? You have an actual hero but screw him, make him eeevil so that we can focus on this selfish bitch with a great rack.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:04 AM (ZOv7s)

170 I can participate in this thread because I'm
Not in church today. I have what one wordsmith at ASHQ well called "snot fest"- no voice and a cold for three days. So I found something on my bookshelf to read. If I read this before I can't recall it: "Grave Goods" by an Englishwoman, whose pen name is Ariana Franklin. It's about Henry II. a fire at Glastonbury Abbey and bones found which may be that of Arthur and Guinevere .

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 29, 2024 10:05 AM (7C7kP)

171 In fact, there was a Brit Titanic movie more in lines with your desires for a documentary approach titled, "A Night to Remember",

Posted by: naturalfake at December 29, 2024

***
I watched it again recently. Kenneth More as Officer Lightoller, and with a small featured part for the young David McCallum, some six years before his Illya Kuryakin role. Was it a flop in its time? It was superbly done, I thought, with the B & W photography giving it a kind of documentary feel.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:05 AM (omVj0)

172 Isn't that typical Hollywood, though? You have an actual hero but screw him, make him eeevil so that we can focus on this selfish bitch with a great rack.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:04 AM (ZOv7s)

See? It's always about the boobs.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 29, 2024 10:05 AM (Zz0t1)

173 The last book of the Hyperion Cantos read to me like a retcon of the prior books, with the possible exception of the first (and best). Seemed to me that Simmons wrote himself into a corner with the foreshadowed, even admitted, story for the last book, and had to go "Bobby's in the shower?".

But I admire Simmons' willingness to take big swings with this books, even if I think he whiffs or just hits a single.

Illium and Olympos are his best multi-story books by far.

Posted by: Kreskin at December 29, 2024 10:05 AM (JoQFn)

174 "As late as March 1916, after twenty months of fighting, Douglas Haig, the British commander in chief, who had been at Omdurman as a staff officer to Kitchener, sought to limit the number of machine guns per battalion, concerned that their presence might dampen the men’s offensive spirit. For a similar reason, he resisted the introduction of the steel helmet, which had been shown to reduce head injuries by 75 percent. In the summer of 1914 he dismissed the airplane as an overrated contraption, and he had little use for light mortars, which in time would become the most effective of all trench weapons. Even the rifle was suspect. What counted was the horse and saber. “It must be accepted as a principle,” read the Cavalry Training manual of 1907, “that the rifle, effective as it is, cannot replace the effect produced by the speed of the horse, the magnetism of the charge and the terror of cold steel.”

Posted by: Notsothoreau at December 29, 2024 10:06 AM (NQtI0)

175 I did start The Old Man in the Corner by Baroness Orczy. It seems to be a series of crime stories told to a young female reporter by an odd old man who frequents the same restaurant at lunch time. It's entertaining and light.
Posted by: KatieFloyd at December 29, 2024

***
A classic example of the "armchair detective" story.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:07 AM (omVj0)

176 I've been working my way through the fantasy stories of George MacDonald and have biographies and a collection of his letters. The more I read the more I'm impressed. I can understand his influence on Lewis, Chesterton and Tolkien. He was friends with giants of the 1800s: Poe, Lewis Carroll, Ruskin and others. He persuaded the Reverend Dodson to publish Alice in Wonderland because MacDonald's children, who were given an early version, fell in love with it.

I'm part way into "At the Back of the North Wind" and I hate to put it down. The sheer creativity in the story is astounding and his lush descriptions of the settings and the characters just suck in the reader. And the book has so many layers of appeal. Young children can get caught up in the basic story but MacDonald infuses meanings, like a deep current that can't be seen from the surface, that will enthrall adults. CS Lewis achieved the same effect in the Narnia tales. I have to think that anyone who reads for the enjoyment of a creative story and beautiful language would find delight in his writings.

Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 10:07 AM (yTvNw)

177 but there were elements of fate, other ships including the calpurnia (sic) had spotted the iceberg, but the telegraph room had gone off shift,
Posted by: miguel cervantes

You are probably thinking of the California, and Walter Lord's father was the captain. It was the closest ship to the sinking, and if it had not shut down its wireless, and responded, hundreds of people might have survived.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 29, 2024 10:07 AM (bJeqI)

178 See? It's always about the boobs.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 29, 2024 10:05 AM (Zz0t1)
---
Wasn't there a Moron who posted under "Kate Winslet's Boobs"?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:07 AM (ZOv7s)

179 so some people have concluded,

yes the owners of the white star line and the captain were more at fault,

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 10:08 AM (dJR17)

180 I didn't write this, but I love it:

We start off with her whining about the ship even though her fiancee has spent a lot of money getting them the best accommodations, then when everyone is trying to kick back and enjoy the cruise she does a faux suicide attempt so she can get attention, then lies about why she did it.

She has lunch where her mother asks her nicely to stop smoking then blows smoke in her face, then turns around and insults the fucking CHAIRMAN OF THE COMPANY THAT OWNS THE BOAT.

Decides to cheat on her fiancee with this bum, doesn’t do anything to help keep him from being embarrassed at a fancy dinner, poses nude for some crappy sketch,, then starts running around the ship and disrupting operations.

1/ ?

Posted by: WitchDoktor at December 29, 2024 10:09 AM (rpE+3)

181 In the summer of 1914 he dismissed the airplane as an overrated contraption, and he had little use for light mortars, which in time would become the most effective of all trench weapons. Even the rifle was suspect. What counted was the horse and saber. “It must be accepted as a principle,” read the Cavalry Training manual of 1907, “that the rifle, effective as it is, cannot replace the effect produced by the speed of the horse, the magnetism of the charge and the terror of cold steel.”
Posted by: Notsothoreau at December 29, 2024

***
Thus underlining the tendency of generals to fight the current war in terms of the last one.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:09 AM (omVj0)

182 Goes up and distracts the lookouts so they don’t notice the iceberg until it’s too late, then doesn’t speak up when the guy who cuckolded her fiancee is framed and handcuffed in the basement of the sinking ship.

Then when she gets a seat on a lifeboat, she jumps off which means someone else couldn’t use it. She follows this hobo around then when they’re in the water he finds a door that they can both fit on but she won’t scoot over for him, and won’t help him find another door he can use so he freezes to death and she shoves his corpse into the ocean. She then lets her mother and fiancee think she’s dead so she can go on and live some bohemian lifestyle.
2/?

Posted by: WitchDoktor at December 29, 2024 10:09 AM (rpE+3)

183 Wasn't there a Moron who posted under "Kate Winslet's Boobs"?
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:07 AM (ZOv7s)

Yes. Yes, I think there was.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 29, 2024 10:09 AM (Zz0t1)

184 good morning Perfessor, Horde

and Merry Christmas to one and all! (per the 12 Days of Christmas )

Posted by: callsign claymore at December 29, 2024 10:10 AM (FSrUg)

185 That's okay. Douglas Haig thought horses and swords would win against machine guns. The Brits have been poorly governed for a long time
Posted by: Notsothoreau
___________

Now that's too harsh. The whole lions led by donkeys thing is too harsh. There was a raging debate prior to WW1 on open formations in the attack, and those against it had some pretty good points. Primarily, that without officers in the immediate vicinity, the men would just go to ground and not advance.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 29, 2024 10:10 AM (Dm8we)

186
As for the "The Titanic should hit the iceberg head on" folks, had it done so with those substandard rivets and all that energy sent the length of the ship, it would have sunk far faster with greater loss of life.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 10:10 AM (dxSpM)

187 Funny you should bring up Lightoller... He was on the Titanic *and* later went to Dunkirk.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 29, 2024 10:10 AM (BI5O2)

188 Why drag in the romance when you've got the sinking of the Titanic? My guess would be the line (was it Stalin?): The death of one is a tragedy; the deaths of millions are a statistic.

Never could get through Cameron's Titanic in one sitting; have probably seen most of it in bits and pieces over the years -- the romance story was like fingernails on a blackboard for me, but the movie looked great. Much preferred A Night to Remember, and also preferred the 1950s Titanic with Clifton Webb & Barbara Stanwyck to the Cameron.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 29, 2024 10:11 AM (q3u5l)

189 The screenplay of "A Night to Remember" was by wait for it Eric Ambler.

Eric Ambler was married to wait for it Joan Harrison, Hitchcock's first assistant and the producer of all those TV shows.

Posted by: Way,Way Downriver at December 29, 2024 10:11 AM (zdLoL)

190 or a character who never existed, who they made into pancho barnes in the future,

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 10:11 AM (dJR17)

191 Good morning Hordemates.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 29, 2024 10:11 AM (W/lyH)

192 Fenelon, if you can, get your spouse to buy a netti-pot or (better) one of those nasopure irrigators and use that to wash out your sinuses. If you can, try to get the Xlear sinus rinse packets as well. They won't help much with the virus, but they will help knock down amy subsequent bacterial infection that gives you the week long sinus infection.
(I am not a doctor, but I get sinus infections)

Its fun, waterboarding yourself in the shower is fun. It makes the world smell like Worcestershire sauce for some reason

Posted by: Kindltot at December 29, 2024 10:12 AM (D7oie)

193 It's "wide-ranging interests," not ADHD.
Posted by: Trimegistus at December 29, 2024 09:46 AM (78a2H)

My wife is still trying to figure out why I bought a book about the history of barbed wire.

No, it is not ADHD. Just a compulsion to be wide read. LOL

Posted by: RetsgtRN at December 29, 2024 10:12 AM (4PsId)

194 Wife and I read Samuel I & II in their entirety. Whole lot of smiting going on. Smiting in the fifth rib was particularly popular, and anatomically speaking is an excellent place to smite.

Posted by: muldoon at December 29, 2024 10:12 AM (991eG)

195
She has lunch where her mother asks her nicely to stop smoking then blows smoke in her face, then turns around and insults the fucking CHAIRMAN OF THE COMPANY THAT OWNS THE BOAT.

Decides to cheat on her fiancee with this bum, doesn’t do anything to help keep him from being embarrassed at a fancy dinner, poses nude for some crappy sketch,, then starts running around the ship and disrupting operations.

1/ ?
Posted by: WitchDoktor at December 29, 2024

***
This is Winslet's character in the Cameron Titanic? A "wayward" girl like that in 1912 would have long before been sent to a convent or a strict disciplinary home. Another reason for me not to watch that version of the story.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:12 AM (omVj0)

196 "As late as March 1916, after twenty months of fighting, Douglas Haig, the British commander in chief, who had been at Omdurman as a staff officer to Kitchener, sought to limit the number of machine guns per battalion, concerned that their presence might dampen the men’s offensive spirit.
Posted by: Notsothoreau at December 29, 2024 10:06 AM (NQtI0)
---
In his Parades End books, Ford Madox Ford has his main character go off on the chaos in British leadership, and how Lloyd George began holding troops out of France to Haig couldn't kill them.

As a result, the 1918 offensive was more effective because British lines were thinner than they might have been.

Churchill's take on Haig was that "he was like a great surgeon, totally absorbed in his work, utterly insensitive to the suffering of his patient."

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:12 AM (ZOv7s)

197 Looking ahead to the new year, I'm making a resolution to read more books than I purchase. Aka, to actually reduce my to-be-read-pile. Especially when it comes to the big comic book omnibuses that I prefer. For starters, I simply have too many unread omnibuses already on my shelves. (including a Luke Cage omnibus that I'm still less than halfway through, and a Watership Down graphic novel adaptation that I haven't started) I'm also literally running out of shelf space for them. Fortunately for me, however, it looks like it'll be easier to buy fewer new omnibuses, as the books announced for this year are a lot less enticing than the books released last year. I may be approaching the point where I have collected most/all the books that I have a genuine interest in.

...At least until the rest of the old CrossGen books are released as omnibuses. It would be a terrible shame if they stopped at only two titles....

Posted by: Castle Guy at December 29, 2024 10:12 AM (Lhaco)

198 Then she hears about this guy who spent many years and a lot of money researching and exploring the wreck for a diamond, calls him and asks him if he found it EVEN THOUGH SHE DAMN WELL KNOWS IT’S NOT DOWN THERE, gets him to fly her and five hundred pounds of luggage to his boat where she spends two days telling this boring-ass story, doesn’t tell him she’s had the diamond all along AND NEVER TOLD ANYONE, even bringing it onto the guy’s boat. She finishes her stupid story, goes and throws this diamond into the water, then dies on this guy’s boat which then gives him a headache about what to do with the body.

Then she goes to heaven and decides that instead of her husband and the father of her children, she would rather spend eternity with some homeless street rat she had a one night stand with 80 years ago.

Rose is the most evil villain in all of cinematic history.

3/3

Posted by: WitchDoktor at December 29, 2024 10:12 AM (XPgIE)

199 See the clip I posted from the book.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at December 29, 2024 10:13 AM (NQtI0)

200 Wife and I read Samuel I & II in their entirety. Whole lot of smiting going on. Smiting in the fifth rib was particularly popular, and anatomically speaking is an excellent place to smite.
Posted by: muldoon at December 29, 2024 10:12 AM (991eG)
---
Try Enoch I. Very metal. So much suffering for the wicked. Pages and pages of it.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:13 AM (ZOv7s)

201 having been at Omdurman, Haig would have though that foolish, however then the Brits had the Maxim, the Boer war should have reminded him of the consequences,

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 10:14 AM (dJR17)

202 The screenplay of "A Night to Remember" was by wait for it Eric Ambler.

Eric Ambler was married to wait for it Joan Harrison, Hitchcock's first assistant and the producer of all those TV shows.
Posted by: Way,Way Downriver

Its a small world.

But I wouldn't want to paint it.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 29, 2024 10:14 AM (bJeqI)

203 I read a book yesterday! I have been in such a reading slump that is an actual accomplishment for me, lol

Hidden Pictures by Jason Rekulak.
It's got drawings,
I enjoyed it.

It goes on as the first entry in my new reading log spreadsheet, concept courtesy of Perfesser.

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at December 29, 2024 10:15 AM (cxCvD)

204 Stout was often at his best in the shorter Wolfe stories; they tell a full-scale mystery in a smaller space …
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius

He’s a wonderful writer. On occasion, and throughout the complete Nero Wolfe series, Archie was kind of rude to Fritz without justification or explanation.

Goodwin didn’t like Theodore - but who cares?

Posted by: 13times at December 29, 2024 10:15 AM (CuztD)

205 Rose is the most evil villain in all of cinematic history.

3/3
Posted by: WitchDoktor at December 29, 2024 10:12 AM (XPgIE)

Just a dumb girl still rebelling against her mom.

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 29, 2024 10:15 AM (2NXcZ)

206 >>Of the Michael Crichton books I've read, my favorite is Binary, an early novel under his John Lange pseudonym

Huh. Had no idea Crichton published books under a pseudonym. Thanks!!

Posted by: Lizzy at December 29, 2024 10:15 AM (u1uWe)

207 Speaking of movies and what Hollywood can do to fuck up a good story, the best book I've ever read about film making is Ray Connoly's "Shadows on the Wall."

A young couple living in a London bedsit squat, he a wannabe writer, she an actress, take his one act script to the annual summer arts fair in Edinboro where it's performed in an alley. A Hollywood promoter sees it and thus begins the wild sleighride to the heights of an over the top blockbuster. Very entertaining and includes emmy level orgasms.

Posted by: M. Gaga at December 29, 2024 10:15 AM (KiBMU)

208 Wasn't there a Moron who posted under "Kate Winslet's Boobs"?
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd

Yes. Yes, I think there was.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer

Yes, indeed. KWB was my late husband who departed this mortal coil in summer of 2021.

Posted by: She Hobbit at December 29, 2024 10:16 AM (ftFVW)

209 >>. . .Rose is the most evil villain in all of cinematic history.

Well, when you put it that way, yeah.

Posted by: Lizzy at December 29, 2024 10:16 AM (u1uWe)

210 Rose is the most evil villain in all of cinematic history.

3/3
Posted by: WitchDoktor

That is a movie review to rival the master who owns this site.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 29, 2024 10:16 AM (bJeqI)

211 yes Cameron had to pad the screenplay with these contrivances, if only aliens or the Terminator had intervened,

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 10:17 AM (dJR17)

212 Authors sometimes pick their villans but Wade Davis blames most of the slaughter on Haig. WWI is not the focus of the book but it is a factor on how people behave. So much death.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at December 29, 2024 10:17 AM (NQtI0)

213 Books I got for Christmas: Exorcist Files, Confessions of St Augustine, and the Ignatius Study Bible, which at 6 pounds is a baby hippopotamus of a book

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at December 29, 2024 10:17 AM (cxCvD)

214 You're a Nazi.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 29, 2024 09:45 AM (Zz0t1)
* * * *
Interesting logic but I don't buy it for a second!

Posted by: Legally Sufficient at December 29, 2024 10:17 AM (rxCpr)

215 See the clip I posted from the book.
Posted by: Notsothoreau at December 29, 2024 10:13 AM (NQtI0)
---
Which book?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:17 AM (ZOv7s)

216
So...it seems that we have reached a consensus about the perfect Titanic movie-

It should be a documentary highlighting the heroism of Officer Lightoller interspersed with several "Timeouts for Boobs" featuring spectacular racks.

Somebody start up a Crowdfund! There's money to be made!

Posted by: naturalfake at December 29, 2024 10:17 AM (iJfKG)

217 I have Watership Down sitting on the floor in my bedroom looking up at me every morning when I get around but I haven't read it. I think I should maybe get around to it Lol. I bought it when "Lost" was on TV because it was the first book Sawyer reads and the books he reads all supposedly had significance.

Posted by: Norrin Radd, sojourner of the spaceways at December 29, 2024 10:19 AM (tRYqg)

218 Posted by: Kindltot at December 29, 2024 10:12 AM (D7oie)

Thanks very much!

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 29, 2024 10:19 AM (DKU3J)

219 Yes, indeed. KWB was my late husband who departed this mortal coil in summer of 2021.
Posted by: She Hobbit at December 29, 2024 10:16 AM (ftFVW)
---
Please accept my belated condolences.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:19 AM (ZOv7s)

220 a little like what happened with Pearl Harbour and Randall Wallace's screenplay,

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 10:20 AM (dJR17)

221 Well, WitchDoktor pretty much covers it. I don't have an issue with Cameron inserting a romance story in the movie; there are defensible narrative reasons for doing that.

The problem was making the object of two men's desire a woman who any man in his right mind - rich or poor - would beat with a shovel until she was unconscious, and then sell to a gypsy circus.

Cameron should have made the story a heartwarming tale of understanding between the classes, as the rich elitist and the grubby guttersnipe learn they aren't really so different after all, when the team up to hurl Rose into the gaping maw of a ravenous shark.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 29, 2024 10:21 AM (BI5O2)

222 Foundation Series by Isaac Asimov

-
I watched a thing about Aum Shinrikyo's sarin gas attack in the Tokyo Subway in 1995. They were inspired in part by the Foundation Series in that the idea was they'd destroy civilization but then build it back better.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at December 29, 2024 10:22 AM (L/fGl)

223 I'm finally rereading LotR for the first time in about 20 years. Not sure why I let so long pass, because I really do love the story. Don't know where I'll turn after that... was having a bit of a slump deciding what to read before I settled on this latest foray into Middle Earth.

Posted by: She Hobbit at December 29, 2024 10:22 AM (ftFVW)

224 Stout was often at his best in the shorter Wolfe stories; they tell a full-scale mystery in a smaller space …
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius
*
He’s a wonderful writer. On occasion, and throughout the complete Nero Wolfe series, Archie was kind of rude to Fritz without justification or explanation.

Goodwin didn’t like Theodore - but who cares?
Posted by: 13times at December 29, 2024

***
I'm pretty sure Archie would apologize to Fritz later. "Sorry; I spent the night with louts and it rubbed off on me." He and Fritz were good friends.

Theodore is a minor character in the saga, and he and Archie have few interactions. In In the Best Families he tells Theodore that he reminds Archie of "sour milk," and that Wolfe pampered him all these years because he, Theodore, was the best orchid nurse alive.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:22 AM (omVj0)

225 Just a dumb girl still rebelling against her mom.
Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 29, 2024 10:15 AM (2NXcZ)
---
I only watched "Titanic" once, when it was on TV and we were using it as background noise to a game of "Bloodbowl," orcs vs humans. I painted my guys like the Pittsburgh Steelers of the 1970s run, got all the numbers on them.

We heckled the crap out of that movie with many an instance of "Oh COME ON!"

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:23 AM (ZOv7s)

226 by: Tuna at December 29, 2024 09:07 AM (oaGWv)

Sounds like a great book!

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 29, 2024 10:23 AM (fSzEz)

227 My wife is still trying to figure out why I bought a book about the history of barbed wire.

Posted by: RetsgtRN at December 29, 2024 10:12 AM (4PsId)

Glidden!

That stuff is a very big deal!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 29, 2024 10:24 AM (d9fT1)

228 Books I got for Christmas: Exorcist Files, Confessions of St Augustine, and the Ignatius Study Bible, which at 6 pounds is a baby hippopotamus of a book
Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at December 29, 2024 10:17 AM (cxCvD)
---
Very seasonal!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:25 AM (ZOv7s)

229 If only aliens or the Terminator had intervened?

Yep, that's the ticket. Skynet learned that an ancestor of John Connor was a passenger on the Titanic and created the android Rose to disrupt things so that the Titanic would hit the iceberg.

Or maybe Skynet wanted to sink the Titanic because there was an ancestor of Cameron's aboard and eliminating Cameron would keep humanity blind to Skynet's evil plans until it was too late.

Or...

Babbling this morning. More coffee...

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 29, 2024 10:25 AM (q3u5l)

230 Foundation Series by Isaac Asimov

-
I watched a thing about Aum Shinrikyo's sarin gas attack in the Tokyo Subway in 1995. They were inspired in part by the Foundation Series in that the idea was they'd destroy civilization but then build it back better.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at December 29, 2024 10:22 AM (L/fGl)

Yes! Exactly!

Posted by: Dr Fauci and the COVIDettes at December 29, 2024 10:25 AM (iJfKG)

231 So, to tie everything together, Eric Ambler wrote the screenplay for the movie A Night to Remember about the Titanic. The screenplay is based on the book of the same name by Walter Lord, whose father was the captain of the California, whose radio was shut down, so they didn't respond to Titanic's CQD or SOS, and hundreds died as a result. Walter Lord also wrote The Miracle of Dunkirk, which I recommended above and started the discussion, and both stories had poorly written modern movies made about the events.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 29, 2024 10:26 AM (bJeqI)

232 So...it seems that we have reached a consensus about the perfect Titanic movie-

It should be a documentary highlighting the heroism of Officer Lightoller interspersed with several "Timeouts for Boobs" featuring spectacular racks.

Somebody start up a Crowdfund! There's money to be made!
Posted by: naturalfake at December 29, 2024 10:17 AM (iJfKG)
---
For a long time, Hollywood understood that showing some boobs was a great way to boost revenue. "How do we get guys to watch a chick flick?"

"Show some boobs."

But that was when they liked making money. Now it's all grooming all the time.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:26 AM (ZOv7s)

233 My favorite quote from Get Smart

Max given the passcode to agent guarding secret entrance

Max: Who wrote Little Women?

Agent: The book or the screenplay?

Max: There was a book?

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:27 AM (D6PGr)

234 Remember, these are the same creative geniuses that thought we needed a story about black women delivering a backlog of mail during WWII.

Surprising to see you turn so fragile. For one thing, the whole middle part of Swede Momsen's biography is about his achievements during WWII -- "delivering mail." I didn't see anybody here go ethnic on that one. When you gape and act like you don't know what "white fragility" could possibly be, I am looking right at you and honky goes right to the bone.

There's a telling scene in the "Battle of The Bulge" movie where a German general shows off a cake captured from an overrun US unit. It's still fresh, though baked in the US. He offers it as evidence that Germany can not win the war. You may hate it in the dark recesses of your soul, but Charity Adams and her training regimen had something to do with that.

I first encountered Charity Adams Earley over 30 years ago, in a talk and pamphlet done up by a Wilberforce student. I said at the time her story would make a hell of a movie. I am unsettled that you have been insufficiently entertained. Read any books about her? Right. I thought not.

Posted by: Way,Way Downriver at December 29, 2024 10:27 AM (zdLoL)

235 If only aliens or the Terminator had intervened?

Yep, that's the ticket. Skynet learned that an ancestor of John Connor was a passenger on the Titanic and created the android Rose to disrupt things so that the Titanic would hit the iceberg.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 29, 2024 10:25 AM (q3u5l)
---
Rose was a T-2000. Battery pack finally ran out in the 1990s, after she dusted hundreds of targets.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:28 AM (ZOv7s)

236 That Rose's character is supposed to be a likable romantic protagonist is totally baffling. It would be like a movie where the romantic male lead was a fictionalized Doug Emhoff, cheating on his wife, beating his mistresses, and forcing abortions.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 29, 2024 10:28 AM (BI5O2)

237
Of course, Rose is an exemplar for the poisonous notion, so common among women nowadays, that you should always follow your heart, not your duty.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 10:28 AM (dxSpM)

238 makes as much sense,

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 10:28 AM (dJR17)

239 Yes, indeed. KWB was my late husband who departed this mortal coil in summer of 2021.
Posted by: She Hobbit at December 29, 2024 10:16 AM (ftFVW)

Oh.....shyte.

Sorry to dredge up the past like that........

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 29, 2024 10:29 AM (Zz0t1)

240 We heckled the crap out of that movie with many an instance of "Oh COME ON!"
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:23 AM (ZOv7s)

When she whipped out her cigarette at the dinner table, you could see she was just a early virginia slims rebel. Stealing the jewel was an insurance policy against poverty, which was what mama warned her against.

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 29, 2024 10:29 AM (2NXcZ)

241 I take it Dean Koontz is your favorite author?

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:29 AM (D6PGr)

242 I'm working my way through Carol Roth's _You Will Own Nothing_

-
Bidenomics?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at December 29, 2024 10:29 AM (L/fGl)

243 I take it Dean Koontz is your favorite author?
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:29 AM (D6PGr)
---
Not even close, but he's often an enjoyable read. A bit repetitive and formulaic, but that's OK if all I want is entertainment.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 10:30 AM (BpYfr)

244 There's a telling scene in the "Battle of The Bulge" movie

Posted by: Way,Way Downriver at December 29, 2024 10:27 AM (zdLoL)
---
That movie sucks. I got it on a combo disk set and won't be watching it again. Terrible.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:31 AM (ZOv7s)

245 "...cheating on his wife, beating his mistresses, and forcing abortions."

But other than that...

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 29, 2024 10:32 AM (dg+HA)

246 Not being Catholic I never knew Devil’s Advocate was a real thing until I saw the movie and somehow came across the explanation of Devil’s Advocate.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:32 AM (D6PGr)

247 237
Of course, Rose is an exemplar for the poisonous notion, so common among women nowadays, that you should always follow your heart, not your duty.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 10:28 AM (dxSpM)

Since this is a book thread, my grandma and her daughters were fond of an English author named Elizabeth Goudge. She stressed honor and duty above whim and "heart" and she was pretty popular for a while. Even JK Rowling read her as a child and called on her books her favorite.

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 29, 2024 10:32 AM (2NXcZ)

248 of course if you kill off miles bennett dyson, when before he picks up the terminator arm, yes cameron steps on his own premise,

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 10:33 AM (dJR17)

249 Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 10:07 AM (yTvNw

I have such fond memories of my mother reading to me and the. giving her copies from a.child of the George McDonald books , "The Princess and Curdie" and "The Princess and the Goblin" I loved those books and I was interested that McDonald tried to be a preacher /minister but I think the religious authorities were not happy with him because some of his Christian faith was not traditional Scots Presbyterian. I should probably get a biography about him.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 29, 2024 10:33 AM (TAPIB)

250 Not even close, but he's often an enjoyable read. A bit repetitive and formulaic, but that's OK if all I want is entertainment.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 10:30 AM (BpYfr)

Roger that. Just a glance at the books you read in 2024 made me make that assumption.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:33 AM (D6PGr)

251 My wife is still trying to figure out why I bought a book about the history of barbed wire.

Posted by: RetsgtRN

She didn’t get the point?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at December 29, 2024 10:33 AM (L/fGl)

252 of course if you kill off miles bennett dyson, when before he picks up the terminator arm, yes cameron steps on his own premise,
Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 10:33 AM (dJR17)
---
Time travel as a plot device has zero interest to me. It's just an excuse for contrivances and weak writing.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:34 AM (ZOv7s)

253 Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 29, 2024 10:32

She was a wonderful writer.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 29, 2024 10:34 AM (TAPIB)

254 Theodore is a minor character in the saga. . . In In the Best Families he tells Theodore that he reminds Archie of "sour milk," and that Wolfe pampered him all these years because he, Theodore, was the best orchid nurse alive.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024

***
Darn. I took down my copy of that novel to refresh my memory for that comment, and just found myself sucked into rereading it all over again. As P.G. Wodehouse said about Stout, "That's writing."

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:35 AM (omVj0)

255 My wife is still trying to figure out why I bought a book about the history of barbed wire.

Posted by: RetsgtRN at December 29, 2024 10:12 AM (4PsId

One of my dad’s friends collected old barbed wire found throughout the west - he’d literally stop and cut samples from decrepit fence lines - and then patch-in a replacement.

Posted by: 13times at December 29, 2024 10:35 AM (sKkve)

256 Since this is a book thread, my grandma and her daughters were fond of an English author named Elizabeth Goudge. She stressed honor and duty above whim and "heart" and she was pretty popular for a while. Even JK Rowling read her as a child and called on her books her favorite.
Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 29, 2024 10:32 AM (2NXcZ)
---
Isn't that why Jane Austen still resonates? She is independent and witty, but also accepts duty and usually by do that, things work out in the end.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:35 AM (ZOv7s)

257 Wary of getting caught up in this.

6888th starts with this story. Netflix then makes it into the BIGGEST HEROIC SAGA EVAR!!" while managing to shoehorn in woke shit, racism and sexism themes, and so on.

I subscribe to Critical Drinker's analysis. To cast a mail delivery battalion as heroes is to diminish the, to put it bluntly, all of the actual heroes in WWII who risked life and limb in a hostile environment to further a battle and such. Much different than sorting mail in a safe building in the middle of England.

YMMV.

Posted by: WitchDoktor at December 29, 2024 10:35 AM (rpE+3)

258 Roger that. Just a glance at the books you read in 2024 made me make that assumption.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:33 AM (D6PGr)
---
It was a recommendation from one of the Morons around here that prompted me to give Koontz a try. His books are also easy to find at library book sales, so they are cheap. Tried one, liked it quite a bit, and then picked up a few more based on recommendations. I still have some Koontz books left to read in my TBR pile, but I won't be reading as many in 2025 as I did in 2024.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 10:35 AM (BpYfr)

259 ---
Time travel as a plot device has zero interest to me. It's just an excuse for contrivances and weak writing.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:34 AM (ZOv7s)

*finds manuscript*

*holds down shift key*

*presses delete key*

*clicks 'Yes'*

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 29, 2024 10:36 AM (Zz0t1)

260 A.H. Lloyd I always say that movie is so bad it has to be seen

Posted by: Skip at December 29, 2024 10:36 AM (fwDg9)

261 Please accept my belated condolences.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd

Oh.....shyte.

Sorry to dredge up the past like that........
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer

Thanks for the thoughts, and no worries, Sponge.

It's actually kind of nice when he comes up around here (and amusing since it is, of course, tied to a discussion of the starlet's bosom). He loved this place and would be pleased that his old joke about boobs lives on.

Posted by: She Hobbit at December 29, 2024 10:37 AM (ftFVW)

262 One of my favorite but little known WW2 movies is Between Heaven and Hell which was based on a 1955 book called The Day the Century Ended, which was written by Arkansas author Francis Irby Gwaltney.

Will try to read the book one day.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:37 AM (D6PGr)

263 And once again I get.a prize for being one of the few people who had never seen "Titanic" . People laughed at a me a couple of years ago because I only got around to seeing "Die Hard " then. I enjoyed Die Hard. I don't want to see Titanic

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 29, 2024 10:38 AM (evv0t)

264 You are probably thinking of the California, and Walter Lord's father was the captain. It was the closest ship to the sinking, and if it had not shut down its wireless, and responded, hundreds of people might have survived.
Posted by: Thomas Paine

Walter Lord also wrote an interesting book, "Lonely Vigil", bout the Solomon Islands coast watchers during WWII.

Posted by: Tuna at December 29, 2024 10:38 AM (oaGWv)

265 Well, I've been trying to teach my daughter about manners. She's pretty nice to people, on the whole, but has some rough edges. As of this weekend, she's nailed down "thank you," but "please" is still a hurdle. We'll get there. Last thing is going to be a huge challenge for this hyperactive little girl - sitting still at a dinner table for longer than ten minutes.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 29, 2024 10:38 AM (BI5O2)

266 My wife is still trying to figure out why I bought a book about the history of barbed wire.

Posted by: RetsgtRN

You just reminded me that I have about a half mile of the stuff I still need to replace.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 29, 2024 10:38 AM (lTGtQ)

267 It's actually kind of nice when he comes up around here (and amusing since it is, of course, tied to a discussion of the starlet's bosom). He loved this place and would be pleased that his old joke about boobs lives on.
Posted by: She Hobbit at December 29, 2024 10:37 AM (ftFVW)

PHEW!!!

*wipes forehead*

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Cancer at December 29, 2024 10:38 AM (Zz0t1)

268 I avoid most Booktube videos of YT. They are too predictable and almost never cover the kind of books I enjoy. However, I have no problem, usually, with discussions about books and authors I want to learn about. Malcolm Guite's discussions are always a pleasure and Alan Harrelson of the Pipe Cottage channel. Even many of the LOTR related book discussions leave me cold. Too much off the wall conjecture. I'm not saying some twenty year old twink can't make relevant recommendations but the odds are against it.

Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 10:39 AM (yTvNw)

269 My wife is still trying to figure out why I bought a book about the history of barbed wire.

Posted by: RetsgtRN at December 29, 2024 10:12 AM (4PsId

One piece of Cliff Clavin trivia that has stuck with me.

Barb wire invented by Glidden . Forgot his first name though.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:40 AM (D6PGr)

270 I subscribe to Critical Drinker's analysis. To cast a mail delivery battalion as heroes is to diminish the, to put it bluntly, all of the actual heroes in WWII who risked life and limb in a hostile environment to further a battle and such. Much different than sorting mail in a safe building in the middle of England.

YMMV.
Posted by: WitchDoktor at December 29, 2024 10:35 AM (rpE+3)
---
I think there is a place for all manner of war stories, even in rear areas. "Mister Roberts" is a great story, and captures the boredom of sustaining supply lines.

A story that makes light of that, and captures the humor and boredom would be quite good. I wouldn't elevate it to heroic, however.

Heroes go above and beyond. I mean you can have some fun with "Catch-22" type shenanigans or "Kelly's Heroes," but that's not what the preview showed.

BTW, the actual Tuskegee Airmen I talked to hated the 1990s movie.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:41 AM (ZOv7s)

271 Battleground is my favorite WW2 movie if just for the ending.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:42 AM (D6PGr)

272 Okay, time to go to Mass. Thanks again, Perfesser!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:42 AM (ZOv7s)

273 the asimov paradox, doesn't really work the multiverse devised by everett, probably is closer to the matter (of course Marvel has ruined that)

Posted by: miguel cervantes at December 29, 2024 10:42 AM (dJR17)

274 BTW, the actual Tuskegee Airmen I talked to hated the 1990s movie.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:41 AM (ZOv7s)

I got to meet a Tuskegee Airman once. Very cool guy.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 29, 2024 10:42 AM (BI5O2)

275
The problem was making the object of two men's desire a woman who any man in his right mind - rich or poor - would beat with a shovel until she was unconscious, and then sell to a gypsy circus.

___________

You little trollop,
You need a wallop.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 10:43 AM (dxSpM)

276 Another thought about Rex Stout: While Wolfe and Archie don't age (even as events in our world like WWII, the Communist threat of the early Fifties, the Civil Rights era, and Watergate all happen in the novels), Wolfe and Archie do change over the decades. In the early books, Wolfe is given to longer speeches -- he's almost chatty by comparison with the Wolfe of the Fifties and later. And early on, Archie is bright, but not highly educated. He says things like "That don't matter." Later, after years with Wolfe and his relationship with Lily Rowan, he knows about rugs and many other things, including quite a bit of history.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:43 AM (omVj0)

277 I knew a WWII veteran who was in the Battle of the Bulge. At that time he was in an Army band, of which there weren't many. They were playing for an officers' mess at lunch. All of a sudden a staff sgt. busts in and tells the band to "drop their damn instruments and follow me". Which they do. One of the band members interjects "Sir, where do we get weapons?" The Sgt. says "You're gonna get them off of all those dead GIs out here".

Posted by: gourmand du jour at December 29, 2024 10:43 AM (c6hLR)

278 Perfessor - I don't read sci-fi, but am curious if there is a consensus on the first sci-fi book. Also, what do you think of Gogol, and would some of his stuff be considered sci-fi?

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 29, 2024 10:44 AM (Dm8we)

279 Barb wire invented by Glidden . Forgot his first name though.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024

***
The same Glidden of Glidden Paint fame?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:44 AM (omVj0)

280 "That movie sucks."

The strength of your argument is duly noted.

Posted by: Way,Way Downriver at December 29, 2024 10:44 AM (zdLoL)

281 50 ... "If my local store is any indication, B&N devotes about 30% of its floor space to books."

Hadrian,
A year ago I would have said the same but our local B and N relocated to a smaller space this year. No cafe (which is fine as I detest Starbucks coffee) and probably 90 percent books. My one complaint is they really cut back on the number of magazines they used to offer. That's a bummer. How am I supposed to keep up with the latest trends on South American crochet techniques? :-)

Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 10:44 AM (yTvNw)

282 Time travel as a plot device has zero interest to me. It's just an excuse for contrivances and weak writing.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:34 AM (ZOv7s)

I feel much the same about "alternate history" stories.

But, that being said I'll still read one if the story itself sounds interesting (not totally dependent on the gimmick) and it's well-written.

Still, when all is said and done, "Hey, look! What if...uh...what....i-i-if the Roman Empire had B-52s and atomic bombs?!?!?! And...and...a-a-a-nd, they had Hostess Twinkies too!?!?!?!?!?!?""

Okay, yeah, but they didn't.

Posted by: Dr Fauci and the COVIDettes at December 29, 2024 10:45 AM (iJfKG)

283 Open blogger, what was your favorite Dean koontz book?

Posted by: Cuthbert the Witless at December 29, 2024 10:46 AM (OA79/)

284 And once again I get.a prize for being one of the few people who had never seen "Titanic" . People laughed at a me a couple of years ago because I only got around to seeing "Die Hard " then. I enjoyed Die Hard. I don't want to see Titanic
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 29, 2024

***
If you haven't seen it, Fen, A Night to Remember is very well done.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:46 AM (omVj0)

285
Off horrible, biological warfare scumbag sock!

Posted by: naturalfake at December 29, 2024 10:46 AM (iJfKG)

286 I rarely read SciFi but Armor by John Steakley is in my top ten list.

It would be hard to make a movie though I wish they would try.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:46 AM (D6PGr)

287 Watership Down is superb.

Posted by: callsign claymore at December 29, 2024 10:47 AM (FSrUg)

288 Saw some Western the other day where a kid on a stagecoach was sitting opposite a barbed wire salesman. Kid asked the guy, "Hey mister, how do cows know not to push up against that stuff?"

The salesman answered, "Instinct."

I'm still scratching my head over that notion.

Posted by: muldoon at December 29, 2024 10:47 AM (991eG)

289 Perfessor - I don't read sci-fi, but am curious if there is a consensus on the first sci-fi book. Also, what do you think of Gogol, and would some of his stuff be considered sci-fi?
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 29, 2024 10:44 AM (Dm8we)
---
Hmmm...Mary Shelly's Frankenstein is often referred to as one of the earliest science fiction stories, if not the first.

As for Gogol, I confess I don't know anything about his writings. Though Wikipedia suggests his stories may be a proto-weird fiction.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 10:47 AM (BpYfr)

290 The same Glidden of Glidden Paint fame?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:44 AM (omVj0)

I don’t think so. He was a farmer at the time.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:47 AM (D6PGr)

291 I put Battleground in my top 10 war movies.
There is a YouTube video on how it almost wasn't made and making it and reactions afterwards

Posted by: Skip at December 29, 2024 10:47 AM (fwDg9)

292 Wary of getting caught up in this.

Posted by: WitchDoktor at December 29, 2024 10:35 AM (rpE+3)

LOL, never, ever get caught up with that guy. He's not here to discuss some lame Netflix movie, or anything else. It's*always* to preen, seethe, and insult people. A small man looking to feel big. Just ignore it.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 29, 2024 10:48 AM (BI5O2)

293 Perfessor - I don't read sci-fi, but am curious if there is a consensus on the first sci-fi book. Also, what do you think of Gogol, and would some of his stuff be considered sci-fi?
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 29, 2024

***
It's been said that one Lucien of Samosata may have written the first story about a trip to the Moon. That said, and bearing in mind that Verne's science was not that solid, his books like Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea were very much the prototypes for today's SF.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:49 AM (omVj0)

294 Open blogger, what was your favorite Dean koontz book?
Posted by: Cuthbert the Witless at December 29, 2024 10:46 AM (OA79/)
---
I don't have a favorite, though a few of them are rated a bit higher than others. Watchers is pretty good, as is What the Night Knows. I also liked the last two Odd Thomas books (Deeply Odd and Saint Odd), though the latter has a very bittersweet ending.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 10:49 AM (BpYfr)

295 First scifi? Voyage to the Moon by Verne perhaps?

Posted by: cheztrainor at December 29, 2024 10:49 AM (y1P/6)

296 I was pleasantly surprised when I watched Hell Is for Heroes and there was a young Bob Newhart doing his phone schtick.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 29, 2024 10:49 AM (dg+HA)

297 Mary Shelley gets credited -- but I'm sticking to Johannes Kepler.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 29, 2024 10:51 AM (78a2H)

298 >242 Bidenomics?

I haven't gotten that far yet. Right now the bookmark is in Chapter 4, "The incredible shrinking dollar," she's going over monetary policy mismanagement.

Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024 10:52 AM (5CEo8)

299 She hobbit, I remember KWB. Seems like a guy who would be missed. Lucky to have had him. Condolences & congrats.

Posted by: From about That Time at December 29, 2024 10:52 AM (4780s)

300 ---
Hmmm...Mary Shelly's Frankenstein is often referred to as one of the earliest science fiction stories, if not the first.

As for Gogol, I confess I don't know anything about his writings. Though Wikipedia suggests his stories may be a proto-weird fiction.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024

***
That's true. Shelley used some of the trappings of science in her day; she didn't have Viktor reanimate a corpse by means of magic spells or something.

I know little about Gogol, though I think he is supposed to have a solid portrait of the psychopathic personality in one of his books, possibly in Dead Souls.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:52 AM (omVj0)

301 Barb wire invented by Glidden . Forgot his first name though.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:40 AM (D6PGr)

Not exactly. Somebody else beat him to it, but he invented a better version.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 29, 2024 10:52 AM (d9fT1)

302 Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:46 AM (omVj0)

That's a movie I have seen. I enjoy films from the 30-50's. If a film is from the 90's or later I may not have seen it. And yes, that's an excellent film

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 29, 2024 10:52 AM (nwOW6)

303 First Sci Fi had to be Icarus right? 😀

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:52 AM (D6PGr)

304 I recently rewatched Tropic Thunder. Now, *that's* an awesome war movie, lol.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 29, 2024 10:52 AM (BI5O2)

305 Hmmm...Mary Shelly's Frankenstein is often referred to as one of the earliest science fiction stories, if not the first.

As for Gogol, I confess I don't know anything about his writings. Though Wikipedia suggests his stories may be a proto-weird fiction.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel
________

Why wouldn't Gulliver's Travels be sci-fi? Or even Gargantua and Pantagruel?

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 29, 2024 10:53 AM (Dm8we)

306 recently rewatched Tropic Thunder. Now, *that's* an awesome war movie, lol.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 29, 2024 10:52 AM (BI5O2)

Don’t get in trouble quoting it like Musk did.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:54 AM (D6PGr)

307 Having hung a shit ton of barbed wire myself, I'm not so fond of the stuff. YMMV.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 29, 2024 10:54 AM (BI5O2)

308
She stressed honor and duty above whim and "heart" and she was pretty popular for a while. Even JK Rowling read her as a child and called on her books her favorite.
Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 29, 2024 10:32 AM (2NXcZ)

____________

It's sad that the novels of James Gould Cozzens are all out of print. But his general theme wouldn't be popular today anyway. In them, professional men - Abner Coates in The Just and the Unjust, Ernest Cudlipp in Men and Brethren, Judge Ross in Guard of Honor, Arthur Winner in By Love Possessed - learn that life gives you a raw deal and bad choices but you have to keep going anyway.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 10:54 AM (dxSpM)

309 Earliest Sci-Fi?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_True_Story

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at December 29, 2024 10:54 AM (PiwSw)

310 That's true. Shelley used some of the trappings of science in her day; she didn't have Viktor reanimate a corpse by means of magic spells or something.

I know little about Gogol, though I think he is supposed to have a solid portrait of the psychopathic personality in one of his books, possibly in Dead Souls.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:52 AM (omVj0)
---
Apparently Mary Shelley also invented the post-apocalyptic novel, The Last Man, where most of humanity is wiped out by a plague (sound familiar?).

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 10:55 AM (BpYfr)

311 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 29, 2024 10:52 AM (d9fT1)

He’s usually credited because he had the patents for what we know as barbed wire.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:55 AM (D6PGr)

312 @282

I like William Forstchen's alt history books, but he's about it.

-SLV

Posted by: Shy Lurking Voter at December 29, 2024 10:56 AM (e/Osv)

313 > proto weird fiction.

This is when I pitch archive.org/details/the-willows-by-algernon-blackwood

Posted by: 13times at December 29, 2024 10:56 AM (j3uXT)

314 As for Gogol, I confess I don't know anything about his writings. Though Wikipedia suggests his stories may be a proto-weird fiction.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 10:47 AM (BpYfr)

Read "The Government Inspector" and "The Nose."

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 29, 2024 10:56 AM (d9fT1)

315 Reading a lot of sf means you're going to wind up reading time travel stories sooner or later (probably sooner). Somebody writing a let's-go-back-and-kill-Hitler may well trip over his own feet somewhere in the story.

The ones using time travel in telling a more personal story, not so much. See, for instance, the stories in Jack Finney's collection About Time, or Harlan Ellison's "One Life Furnished in Early Poverty" or Fritz Leiber's "Try and Change the Past" or Moore and Kuttner's "Vintage Season."

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 29, 2024 10:56 AM (q3u5l)

316 Isn't that why Jane Austen still resonates? She is independent and witty, but also accepts duty and usually by do that, things work out in the end.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 10:35 AM (ZOv7s)

Austen's heroines get the guy, or a better version, in the end recognizing that they fell for a cad. Goudge's men and women usually end up doing their duty, raising their kids and keeping the family together and sacrifice their hearts' desires. I suppose Goudge's books would be more like when the satisfaction with Brandon fails and Marianne gets her chance with a now rich Willoughby but makes the honorable choice without an affair.

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 29, 2024 10:56 AM (2NXcZ)

317 Why wouldn't Gulliver's Travels be sci-fi? Or even Gargantua and Pantagruel?
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 29, 2024 10:53 AM (Dm8we)
---
Both of those seem to be classified as satire.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 10:57 AM (BpYfr)

318 Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 29, 2024 10:48 AM (BI5O2)

Copy that. Thanks my friend.

Posted by: WitchDoktor at December 29, 2024 10:57 AM (zy08Q)

319 Read "The Government Inspector" and "The Nose."
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

And Viy.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 29, 2024 10:57 AM (Dm8we)

320 Ok, since we have so much mention of barbed wire I think I'm obligated to mention Chesterton's Fence:

Chesterton’s Fence is the idea that if you don’t know what something does, think very carefully before you decide to axe it.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 29, 2024 10:57 AM (dg+HA)

321 And speaking of inventors, few people are unaware that Tesla was subsequently credited with being the inventor of radio and not Marconi. At least here in the US parent system.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:58 AM (D6PGr)

322 Still, when all is said and done, "Hey, look! What if...uh...what....i-i-if the Roman Empire had B-52s and atomic bombs?!?!?! And...and...a-a-a-nd, they had Hostess Twinkies too!?!?!?!?!?!?""

Okay, yeah, but they didn't.
Posted by: Dr Fauci and the COVIDettes at December 29, 2024

***
It's be intriguing if Germany had been the one to colonize the American Southwest and Mexico, and the Apaches speak German to the late-arriving Anglos. (Except in 1500 or so, Germany was not the united country that Spain was then, and couldn't have gone exploring, colonizing, and exploiting in the same way.)

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:58 AM (omVj0)

323 I really enjoyed the Malazan books myself. They were heavily (and admittedly) influenced by Glen Cook's Black Company (like Williamson and Martin). BC is my favorite fantasy series. Cook's unfinished Instrumentalities of the Night would probably have surpassed BC (for me) but allegedly someone stole the notes and outline....

I put Wodehouse, Stout, Kipling and Jack Vance on the Mt Rushmore of craftsmanship. They all have an effortlessness and relaxed approach that is "beyond technique". Like Ken Griffey jr at the plate.

N.B. Cook steals from everyone too. For example, his sci-fi The Dragon Never Sleeps obviously riffs off of Dune and his Garrett, PI series is blatantly riffing on Rex Stoudt's Nero Wolfe (which prob is riffing on Mycroft Holmes).

Posted by: Thesokorus at December 29, 2024 10:58 AM (z6Ybz)

324 The Ethical Skeptic has produced a work on "A Curious Ancient Astrological Confluence", about that "star".

He goes into a lot of history going back thousands of years, showing the moon and crescent far predated Islam. Being a skeptic he looks into the history to find what to him was a great epiphany.

idk if he is right, but he seems very detailed, and I'd have to compare to my previous understanding of those conjunctions (I was thinking it was in Virgo, his is in Leo). Here are some of his details, for a taste.

"Celestial lock on Jupiter as it makes its seven-conjunction journey starting from mid July 3 BCE, through its retrograde period, the culmination of the 27 Aug 2 BCE Grand Conjunction, the anomalous Star #12 inside the crescent waning Moon, and finally on past the 7th conjunction on 13 Oct 2 BCE."

from his own page ... theethicalskeptic.com

the article
https://tinyurl.com/2thjk3un

Posted by: illiniwek at December 29, 2024 11:00 AM (Cus5s)

325 249 ... "I have such fond memories of my mother reading to me and the. giving her copies from a.child of the George McDonald books , "The Princess and Curdie" and "The Princess and the Goblin" I loved those books and I was interested that McDonald tried to be a preacher /minister but I think the religious authorities were not happy with him because some of his Christian faith was not traditional Scots Presbyterian. I should probably get a biography about him."

Hi Fenelon,
I wish I had read, or been read to, MacDonald as a child. It would be interesting to follow his writings over the course of the decades. There are a number of biographies for MacDonald:"George MacDonald: Scotland's Beloved Storyteller" by Michael Phillips comes to mind. Then there is "An Expression of Character: The Letters of George Macdonald". I find these collections of letters to be revealing and interesting on many levels. Doubtful your library would have them but used copies are pretty inexpensive. I paid under ten bucks each for them. Also, check out Malcolm Guite's YT channel. He has a number of videos discussing MacDonald, his writing and his influences.

Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 11:00 AM (yTvNw)

326 307 Having hung a shit ton of barbed wire myself, I'm not so fond of the stuff. YMMV.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 29, 2024 10:54 AM (BI5O2)

Concertina wire > Barbed wire.

Posted by: Reforger at December 29, 2024 11:00 AM (xcIvR)

327 First Sci Fi had to be Icarus right? 😀
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024

***
Good point. The story has him extrapolate from what was known, that birds flew by means of wings, and create a technology for his own wings -- only to hit the Big Catch that the sun melts the wax that holds the artificial wings together.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 11:01 AM (omVj0)

328 Pamela Anderson made a terrible movie called Barb Wire.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 11:02 AM (D6PGr)

329 Lots of German settlers inTx.

Posted by: BignJames at December 29, 2024 11:03 AM (Yj6Os)

330 Larry Niven has suggested that Dante's Inferno was the first hard SF novel. Dante extrapolated from what was "known" about Hell in his own time, and built an entire world like Herbert's Dune or Niven's own Ringworld. Then he populated it and had the creatures, devils, interact with humans.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 11:04 AM (omVj0)

331 yeah, sal, (@4

, I nearly tossed it for the preface (o, the irony of a demonrat making that comparison) ... but I persevered.

I actually enjoyed some of the detailed trivia, but that's me & my tastes.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at December 29, 2024 11:04 AM (cY18j)

332 It's be intriguing if Germany had been the one to colonize the American Southwest and Mexico, and the Apaches speak German to the late-arriving Anglos. (Except in 1500 or so, Germany was not the united country that Spain was then, and couldn't have gone exploring, colonizing, and exploiting in the same way.)
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:58 AM (omVj0)

We'd all be drinking great beer and eating sausage in the United States of Wienerschnitzel.

Make it so, alternate history!

Posted by: naturalfake at December 29, 2024 11:04 AM (iJfKG)

333
Gogol was well-steeped in Russian folktales, so that's where his weirdness plugged in.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 29, 2024 11:06 AM (iJfKG)

334 Lots of German settlers inTx.
Posted by: BignJames at December 29, 2024

***
True. But they came later.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 11:06 AM (omVj0)

335 Lots of German settlers inTx.
Posted by: BignJames
__________

I read somewhere that the Germans tended to come in through New Orleans, which is why there are so many throughout the Mississippi and Ohio valleys.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 29, 2024 11:06 AM (Dm8we)

336 Concertina wire > Barbed wire.
Posted by: Reforger at December 29, 2024 11:00 AM (xcIvR)

Hung a lot of that too.

The most at one sitting was for the 2008 Dem National Conventional. Back then they didn't want their Monster Babies disrupting Obama's coronation, so they hired my company to convert a large warehouse into a temporary prison. Chain link cages topped with concertina wire.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 29, 2024 11:07 AM (BI5O2)

337 Was recently in the cute little town of Hermann, Missouri. All German. All the time.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 29, 2024 11:07 AM (dg+HA)

338 Germans were the largest group of immigrants to the United States prior to our open border period.

Like they say about Texas, The Germans weren’t born in the US but they got here as soon as they could.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 11:08 AM (D6PGr)

339 332 It's be intriguing if Germany had been the one to colonize the American Southwest and Mexico[ . . . ]
Make it so, alternate history!

The Thirty-Years War would have turned out significantly differently. No Treaty of Westphalia in 1648. No modern nation-states as we now think of them.

World history would have been _much_ different.

Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024 11:08 AM (5CEo8)

340 I read somewhere that the Germans tended to come in through New Orleans, which is why there are so many throughout the Mississippi and Ohio valleys.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 29, 2024

***
Right. Lousy-ana has a stretch of the river above Noo Awlins once called "The German Coast," and there is even a town called Des Allemands, "the Germans."

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 11:09 AM (omVj0)

341 >337 Was recently in the cute little town of Hermann, Missouri. All German. All the time.

Hermann! The nominal capitol of the Missouri "Rhineland."

I watched the 2021 eclipse there and used to camp with the family near there. Nice area.

Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024 11:10 AM (5CEo8)

342 Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 11:00 AM (yTvNw

Thanks so much for the suggestions. I'll have to look for some of those. I think he was a good man, and the books contain moral lessons in an entertaining way. With of course ideas about faith not posed directly

Do we even have books for kids now about behaving- to use good old fashioned terms "ladies
and gentlemen" or having heroic virtues?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 29, 2024 11:10 AM (Wlnrr)

343 A good immigrant movie is Sweet Land about a German mail order bride by a Scandi farmer in a Scandi community in MN.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 11:11 AM (D6PGr)

344 Right. Lousy-ana has a stretch of the river above Noo Awlins once called "The German Coast," and there is even a town called Des Allemands, "the Germans."
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius
__________

So they took one look at New Orleans and kept moving.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 29, 2024 11:11 AM (Dm8we)

345 It's be intriguing if Germany had been the one to colonize the American Southwest and Mexico, and the Apaches speak German to the late-arriving Anglos. (Except in 1500 or so, Germany was not the united country that Spain was then, and couldn't have gone exploring, colonizing, and exploiting in the same way.)
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:58 AM (omVj0)

A friend of mine speculated on what would have happened if Columbus had gotten backing from the House of Fugger instead of Spain. He thought the Fuggers were cold enough to have been happy to open mutually beneficial trade with the Aztecs

Posted by: Kindltot at December 29, 2024 11:11 AM (D7oie)

346 Passed through Hermann briefly umpteen years ago with a friend. Nice winery there if memory serves.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 29, 2024 11:12 AM (q3u5l)

347 He thought the Fuggers were cold enough to have been happy to open mutually beneficial trade with the Aztecs
Posted by: Kindltot at December 29, 2024 11:11 AM

Probably. If pit vipers had money to spend, there'd have been a Fugger representative with an office in the jungle.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 29, 2024 11:13 AM (BI5O2)

348 And East coast Germans were also put into interment camps but you rarely hear about that.

Of course not to the extent of West coast Japanese though.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 11:13 AM (D6PGr)

349 Larry Niven has suggested that Dante's Inferno was the first hard SF novel. Dante extrapolated from what was "known" about Hell in his own time, and built an entire world like Herbert's Dune or Niven's own Ringworld. Then he populated it and had the creatures, devils, interact with humans.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 11:04 AM (omVj0)

>>>>>>

I don't endorse Rene Guenon. But his book on Dante is amazing: The Esoterism of Dante. For me, the stuff Guenon writes is at once "this is bonkers LOL" and "that's an excellent point and true".

Posted by: Thesokorus at December 29, 2024 11:13 AM (z6Ybz)

350 it's 0803 here on the rainy & stormy Left Coast and there are already over 325 comments this morning!

Well, good morning to all, anyway. Finished 32 books so far this year, but will probably finish one more by New Year's Eve. Thanks to the Moron/ettes, I've found some great stories and authors I would not have tried.

Here's to 2025 and another great year of reading!

Posted by: March Hare at December 29, 2024 11:13 AM (jfX+U)

351 A follow on to my comment in 325 ...

I mention him often but if you want insights into MacDonald, Chesterton, Lewis and Tolkien, and others, Malcolm Guite has plenty of YT videos on his channel about them and videos featuring him on other channels like the one for the Wade Center. His insights are profound and his enthusiasm for the subjects is absolutely infectious. If needed, he will reinvigorate your passion for these writers.

Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 11:13 AM (yTvNw)

352
It's be intriguing if Germany had been the one to colonize the American Southwest and Mexico

_________

I'm not sure they didn't because the Germans have not been a particularly seafaring people, the Hanseatic League aside, unlike the Spanish, French and British.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 11:15 AM (dxSpM)

353 Perfessor,
Before the thread is over, a major THANK YOU FOR for another year of the book thread. It is one of the highlights of my week.

Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 11:15 AM (yTvNw)

354 It's be intriguing if Germany had been the one to colonize the American Southwest and Mexico, and the Apaches speak German to the late-arriving Anglos. (Except in 1500 or so, Germany was not the united country that Spain was then, and couldn't have gone exploring, colonizing, and exploiting in the same way.)

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 10:58 AM (omVj0)

At the time in question (early-mid 16th century), Spain and Germany were, in fact, all ruled by the same man, Holy Roman Emperor Charles V (aka Charles I of Spain). And he did authorize some German colonization expeditions. Venezuela was, I think, the first. But for some reason they did not succeed, while the ones from his Spanish possessions did.

Posted by: HTL at December 29, 2024 11:16 AM (Cnx6f)

355 Can’t help but commenting on movies but Hard Times is my favorite movie set in New Orleans.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 11:16 AM (D6PGr)

356 Lot of Germans in New Orleans, too. Sometimes it's hard to tell because the names got Frenchified. Just look at all the local businesses that aren't there any more: Schwegmann's, Godchaux (=Gottschalk), Katz & Besthoff, Gus Mayer . . .

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 29, 2024 11:16 AM (78a2H)

357 The Thirty-Years War would have turned out significantly differently. No Treaty of Westphalia in 1648. No modern nation-states as we now think of them.

World history would have been _much_ different.
Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024

***
I'm just captivated by the idea of Apaches saying things like "Wir wollen Winchester schützen!"

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 11:16 AM (omVj0)

358 Stuck in empty Hotel California, and the only thing I find in the nightstand drawer is Dhalgren. In every room. Forever.

Posted by: The Guy Who Keeps Copyright Striking Vids On Youtube at December 29, 2024 11:17 AM (fEODp)

359 Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 11:13 AM (yTvNw)

Thanks; I enjoy all those authors. I will look for those.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 29, 2024 11:17 AM (F5VNm)

360 Perfessor,
Before the thread is over, a major THANK YOU FOR for another year of the book thread. It is one of the highlights of my week.
Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 11:15 AM (yTvNw)
---
I'm glad you enjoy it. It's hard to believe I've been doing this for ALMOST THREE YEARS...Where does the time go?

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 11:18 AM (BpYfr)

361 Stuck in empty Hotel California, and the only thing I find in the nightstand drawer is Dhalgren. In every room. Forever.
Posted by: The Guy Who Keeps Copyright Striking Vids On Youtube at December 29, 2024 11:17 AM (fEODp)

>>>>>

I cackled abd shuddered

Posted by: Thesokorus at December 29, 2024 11:18 AM (z6Ybz)

362 Right. Lousy-ana has a stretch of the river above Noo Awlins once called "The German Coast," and there is even a town called Des Allemands, "the Germans."
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius
__________

So they took one look at New Orleans and kept moving.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 29, 2024

***
I would have too. But in the early 1700s, NO was not much more than a wide and relatively high/dry spot on the riverbank.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 11:18 AM (omVj0)

363 I'm not sure they didn't because the Germans have not been a particularly seafaring people, the Hanseatic League aside, unlike the Spanish, French and British.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 11:15 AM (dxSpM)

Didn’t have much of a coast line. I think a sliver of the North Sea IIRC.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 11:19 AM (D6PGr)

364 I've been reading the Fire In The Sky series by Reed. A decent storyline but after book 4, it gets...annoying. How long can you put up with stupid people? I will not finish the series.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 29, 2024 11:19 AM (W/lyH)

365 I'm just captivated by the idea of Apaches saying things like "Wir wollen Winchester schützen!"
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius
__________

Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles. But I guess that was Yiddish.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 29, 2024 11:19 AM (Dm8we)

366 I would be more impressed with 'these pants' if they showed Tito's Handmade Vodka instead of Smirnoff. One should have standards in such matters.

Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 11:20 AM (yTvNw)

367 The Germans were great seafarers: the Germans who lived in the Netherlands. Their inland cousins, not so much.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 29, 2024 11:20 AM (78a2H)

368 366 I would be more impressed with 'these pants' if they showed Tito's Handmade Vodka instead of Smirnoff. One should have standards in such matters.
Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024

***
"Taaka Vodka: Mixes easy -- just add people!"
( -- ancient Taaka advertising slogan)

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 11:21 AM (omVj0)

369 I've tried to read Dhalgren three times and washed out each time. May try again one of these years, but that's really iffy -- there's a lot of stuff ahead of Dhalgren on the try-again list. Anyone here ever made it through?

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 29, 2024 11:22 AM (q3u5l)

370 *One should have standards in such matters.*

Wait. We're talking about the Strange Pants collection, right?

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 29, 2024 11:22 AM (dg+HA)

371 369 I've tried to read Dhalgren three times and washed out each time. May try again one of these years, but that's really iffy -- there's a lot of stuff ahead of Dhalgren on the try-again list. Anyone here ever made it through?
Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 29, 2024 11:22 AM (q3u5l)

I read the first page!

Posted by: LeBron James at December 29, 2024 11:23 AM (PiwSw)

372 >357 I'm just captivated by the idea of Apaches saying things like "Wir wollen Winchester schützen!"

LOL! I read that as if "Winchester" began the the "V" sound the way "Wir" and "Wollen" do.

If I may offer a brief correction, I think you mean _Schiessen_ (to shoot), as _Schützen_ would mean "to protect." Grammatically correct the way it was written, but confusing.

Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024 11:24 AM (5CEo8)

373 He’s usually credited because he had the patents for what we know as barbed wire.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 10:55 AM (D6PGr)

He got the second patent for barbed wire, but his design was superior.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 29, 2024 11:26 AM (d9fT1)

374 Speaking of Germans and the book thread.

Gutenberg!!!

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 11:26 AM (D6PGr)

375 >374 Sebastian

Well played, sir! Well played.

Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024 11:27 AM (5CEo8)

376 I've tried to read Dhalgren three times and washed out each time. May try again one of these years, but that's really iffy -- there's a lot of stuff ahead of Dhalgren on the try-again list. Anyone here ever made it through?
Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 29, 2024 11:22 AM (q3u5l)

>>>

Yeah. I read it and Stars in My Pocket for a dumb class. He's a degenerate perverted freak and the books are degenerate and perverted. Meh. Gene Wolfe (or Tristram Shandy) is the way to go for overtly virtuosic sci-fi/fantasy writing.

Posted by: Thesokorus at December 29, 2024 11:27 AM (z6Ybz)

377 I'm just captivated by the idea of Apaches saying things like "Wir wollen Winchester schützen!"

LOL! I read that as if "Winchester" began the the "V" sound the way "Wir" and "Wollen" do.

If I may offer a brief correction, I think you mean _Schiessen_ (to shoot), as _Schützen_ would mean "to protect." Grammatically correct the way it was written, but confusing.
Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024

***
I just looked it up on the 'Net and thought the plural of "rifles" was that. What should it be, then, to read "We want Winchester rifles"?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 11:28 AM (omVj0)

378 Speaking of Germans and the book thread.

Gutenberg!!!
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth
______

Project Guttenberg - huge online collection of books in the public domain.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 29, 2024 11:28 AM (Dm8we)

379 If it weren't for Gutenberg, would we now be "Booking" through the "Scroll" thread?

Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024 11:29 AM (5CEo8)

380 "We want Winchester rifles" = "Wir wollen Winchester Gewehren"?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 11:29 AM (omVj0)

381 If it weren't for Gutenberg, would we now be "Booking" through the "Scroll" thread?
Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024 11:29 AM (5CEo

===

Have we met?

Posted by: Wesley Crusher at December 29, 2024 11:30 AM (RIvkX)

382 I thought the Habsburgs were financed by the Fuggers?

Posted by: Thesokorus at December 29, 2024 11:30 AM (z6Ybz)

383 Project Gutenberg, Faded Page and

https://standardebooks.org/

Posted by: 13times at December 29, 2024 11:31 AM (2tkXy)

384 Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 09:57 AM (ZOv7s)

Sorry, I meant the actual event. Can't stand alto history for some reason.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 29, 2024 11:32 AM (lFFaq)

385 I thought the Habsburgs were financed by the Fuggers?
Posted by: Thesokorus at December 29, 2024

***
I was going to make a joke about their being financed by the Fuggers' maternal parents, but decided it was unworthy of me.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 11:32 AM (omVj0)

386 342 ... "Do we even have books for kids now about behaving- to use good old fashioned terms "ladies
and gentlemen" or having heroic virtues?"

I don't know much about current children's books but "The Boy, the Mole, the Fox and the Horse" and the Brambly Hedge stories might be in that ball park. A dearth of suitable childrens' books might be why there has been such a resurgence in George MacDonald's fairy tales the last five or ten years. Yeah, they are public domain now but they are being printed in a good quality manner and must be selling so the demand is there.

Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 11:33 AM (yTvNw)

387 The greatest biography of Winston Churchill by far is Manchester's, "The Last Lion." He wrote the first two volumes and has an eye for characters and drama that would do credit to a novelist. Wonderful writer! and he really brings all of the cast of characters to life. He also has great admiration for Churchill.

My father's well-thumbed copies of the first two volumes are almost falling apart because I think he read them several times.

Posted by: Beverly at December 29, 2024 11:33 AM (zYX5v)

388 294 Open blogger, what was your favorite Dean koontz book?
Posted by: Cuthbert the Witless at December 29, 2024 10:46 AM (OA79/)
---
I don't have a favorite, though a few of them are rated a bit higher than others. Watchers is pretty good, as is What the Night Knows. I also liked the last two Odd Thomas books (Deeply Odd and Saint Odd), though the latter has a very bittersweet ending.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 10:49 AM (BpYfr)

Tyvm. I have only read one of his books and enjoyed it. The alien ship crash landing.

Liked the writing. I remembered he wrote tons of books and was heavily advertised on TV back in the day.

Will pick up more.

Posted by: Cuthbert the Witless at December 29, 2024 11:33 AM (OA79/)

389 > 381 Have we met?
Posted by: Wesley Crusher

Only here. At least until I realize my dream of hosting a MoMe here at Oktoberfest.

Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024 11:33 AM (5CEo8)

390 He got the second patent for barbed wire, but his design was superior.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 29, 2024 11:26 AM (d9fT1)

Yes I know but again he is known as the inventor of the modern version we know now as barbed wire.

It was different enough that they issued another patent .

This is an occurrence for a multitude of inventions.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 11:34 AM (D6PGr)

391 Comments already into the late 300s but, oh well. . .

I noticed on Twitter that a tattooed British classist who is Generation X by the name of Emily Wilson is roundly getting mocked for her "translation" of The Odyssey from 2018.

OMG, she's the daughter of A.N. Wilson! That's even funnier than finding out Molly Jong-Fast is the daughter of Erica Jong!*

*Because A.N. Wilson is a respected writer, but Erica Jong just wrote feminist smut.

Posted by: Pete in Texas at December 29, 2024 11:35 AM (WJwea)

392 > 380 "We want Winchester rifles" = "Wir wollen Winchester Gewehren"?

Close. According to DeepL (because Frau SPinRH_F-16 is not currently nearby) "Wir wollen Winchester-Gewehre."

Ah, the awful German language.

Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024 11:35 AM (5CEo8)

393 "Lot of Germans in New Orleans, too."

They had a German Festival I attended at least once, but it wasn't nearly as huge as the Italian-Irish parade. It was more the size of the Greek Festival.

Posted by: illiniwek at December 29, 2024 11:36 AM (Cus5s)

394 Good morning!

Let's smile & be happy & strike fear in the hearts of killjoy leftists everywhere.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 29, 2024 11:36 AM (u82oZ)

395 *classicist, not classist

Posted by: Pete in Texas at December 29, 2024 11:36 AM (WJwea)

396
It was different enough that they issued another patent .

This is an occurrence for a multitude of inventions.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 11:34 AM (D6PGr)

__________

Yes, an improvement, if it is not obvious to one of ordinary skill in the art, is eminently patentable. If it falls outside the claims of the first patent, you can accrue all the benefits without consideration.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 29, 2024 11:37 AM (dxSpM)

397 Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 10:07 AM (yTvNw)

After he was mentioned a couple of months ago, I got a compilation for my Kindle and use that as a quasi-devotional when I want something more thoughtful than a murder mystery to listen to.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 29, 2024 11:37 AM (lFFaq)

398 If I may offer a brief correction, I think you mean _Schiessen_ (to shoot), as _Schützen_ would mean "to protect." Grammatically correct the way it was written, but confusing.
Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024 11:24 AM (5CEo

Just be aware of the difference between schiessen (pronounced shee-ssen) and scheissen (pronounced shy-ssen).

-SLV

Posted by: Shy Lurking Voter at December 29, 2024 11:38 AM (e/Osv)

399 Been busy with spousal support. The Christmas tree is up now, and we exchange gifts tonight.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 29, 2024 11:38 AM (u82oZ)

400 It's neat seeing the Titanic references here as we are visiting family in Ireland and just got back from the Titanic exhibit at where it was built in Belfast.

Posted by: Cosda at December 29, 2024 11:39 AM (qBJVs)

401 Thanks Perfessor! Thanks as always for the book thread and hey! coincidentally I'm wearing the school's sweatshirt today. I wonder if we finally moved up out of NCAA Division 19?

_Guten Rutsch zum frohes neues Jahr, Leute!_

Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024 11:39 AM (5CEo8)

402 Salty! I just got my copy of Bullard of the Space Patrol! Thank you for recommending it!

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at December 29, 2024 11:39 AM (PiwSw)

403 It’s also disputed that the Wright Brothers are the first powered manned flight .

Or that Edison invented the light bulb ( he didn’t just a better light bulb)

Etc

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 11:39 AM (D6PGr)

404 380 "We want Winchester rifles" = "Wir wollen Winchester Gewehren"?

Close. According to DeepL (because Frau SPinRH_F-16 is not currently nearby) "Wir wollen Winchester-Gewehre."

Ah, the awful German language.
Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024

***
Which is only part of why I'm not really qualified to write such a story!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 29, 2024 11:40 AM (omVj0)

405 >398 Just be aware of the difference between schiessen (pronounced shee-ssen) and scheissen (pronounced shy-ssen).
-SLV

Absofreakinloutely!

Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at December 29, 2024 11:40 AM (5CEo8)

406 Reading Second Stage Lensmen as I reread the Galactic Patrol series.

What a lot of plot holes!

The Anti-matriarchal screed in the book violates the Galactic Patrol live and let live ethos, as well as dates the book to ideas from before the 19th amendment.

Ugh. Can not recommend this to a child of today.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 29, 2024 11:42 AM (u82oZ)

407 I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper

That is the book I am going to loan to a child of 8.

Have fun!

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 29, 2024 11:43 AM (u82oZ)

408 It was different enough that they issued another patent .

This is an occurrence for a multitude of inventions.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 11:34 AM (D6PGr)

I remember seeing a display of the various designs of barbed wire. There were dozens!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 29, 2024 11:45 AM (d9fT1)

409 I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper

I've been plotting out how to adapt this book to the USN of 2010 to today.

Hint: The key to success is using the enlisted evaluation process to transfer DEI sailors off the division, department, or ship.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 29, 2024 11:47 AM (u82oZ)

410 I remember seeing a display of the various designs of barbed wire. There were dozens!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 29, 2024 11:45 AM (d9fT1)

>>>>

I sometimes wonder about the life-trajectory of the dudes who got barbed-wire tattoos back in the day. The women too....

Posted by: Thesokorus at December 29, 2024 11:48 AM (z6Ybz)

411 And Al Gore invented the internet !!!

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 11:49 AM (D6PGr)

412 Well, off to do some annoying real world stuff.

Perfessor, thanks for the thread. Jeez, three years? Who was it said that hours drag, but the years just fly by?

Happy New Year to you and the Horde. Hope it's a good one for you.

Bests to all.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 29, 2024 11:49 AM (q3u5l)

413 I reread "Great Expectations" a few years ago.

Mr. Pip was an idiot.

"Protect the portable property!"

Posted by: no one of any consequence at December 29, 2024 11:49 AM (ZmEVT)

414 sometimes wonder about the life-trajectory of the dudes who got barbed-wire tattoos back in the day. The women too....
Posted by: Thesokorus at December 29, 2024 11:48 AM (z6Ybz)

Pamela Anderson got one for her movie.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at December 29, 2024 11:50 AM (D6PGr)

415 Mr. Pip was an idiot.

"Protect the portable property!"
Posted by: no one of any consequence at December 29, 2024 11:49 AM (ZmEVT)
---
For some reason my brain turned that into, "Protect the portable potty!"

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 29, 2024 11:50 AM (BpYfr)

416 It is often forgotten, but not by Egyptians, that Suez is the final extension of God's canal which is the Red Sea. That is why Egypt got involved in the Yemen during the 1960s, when it supported the Yemen Arab Republic ("north Yemen", now Houthi Yemen).

Posted by: gKWVE at December 29, 2024 11:52 AM (gKWVE)

417 Protect the portable Popery!

Posted by: Thesokorus at December 29, 2024 11:53 AM (z6Ybz)

418 I learned about this from The House of Saud, here:
archive.org/details/houseofsaud00davi

Posted by: gKWVE at December 29, 2024 11:53 AM (gKWVE)

419 417 Protect the portable Popery!
Posted by: Thesokorus at December 29, 2024 11:53 AM (z6Ybz)

Protect the portable potpourri!

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 29, 2024 11:54 AM (2NXcZ)

420 I remember seeing a display of the various designs of barbed wire. There were dozens!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 29, 2024 11:45 AM (d9fT1)

There is a display at the State Museum near me that has hundreds of examples. I was just trying to find a picture of the display but there is nothing on their page. I have to wonder if it is still there.
If entry was still free I would go look but not at $8.00 to get in to see stuff I've seen dozens of times.

Posted by: Reforger at December 29, 2024 11:54 AM (xcIvR)

421 My god, the Papists have made Popery portable!

Posted by: Thesokorus at December 29, 2024 11:54 AM (z6Ybz)

422 Protect the portable potpourri!
Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 29, 2024 11:54 AM (2NXcZ)

Protect the Pope's portable potpurri of Popery!

Posted by: Thesokorus at December 29, 2024 11:56 AM (z6Ybz)

423 My grandpa used to have an enameled wall hanging piece with “barbed wire of the old west” on it. I think it had 11 types.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 29, 2024 11:57 AM (7MHHr)

424 With a peck of pickled peppers.

Posted by: Peter Piper at December 29, 2024 11:57 AM (dg+HA)

425 Although he is an engineer, he takes a position as the manager for Spartacus Machine Tools' office in Milan. His predecessor met a sinister death, and he is soon courted by agents with dangerously different agendas. The Italian secret police finds him to be a spy which leads to a long, harrowing escape from Italy to the Yugo-Slav border. A realistic thriller.
Posted by: Zoltan at December 29, 2024 09:47 AM (OAKaM)

An engineer becoming caught up in cloak and dagger events? Who would ever believe that?

Posted by: Richard Hannay at December 29, 2024 11:57 AM (8zz6B)

426 Have a great year in Books.

"Perfessor" Squirrel, thank you so much for the book thread.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 29, 2024 11:58 AM (u82oZ)

427 406 ... "Reading Second Stage Lensmen as I reread the Galactic Patrol series.
What a lot of plot holes!
The Anti-matriarchal screed in the book violates the Galactic Patrol live and let live ethos, as well as dates the book to ideas from before the 19th amendment.
Ugh. Can not recommend this to a child of today."

NaCl,

Had to smile at this. I doubt EE Smith was concerned with plot holes or consistency as long as the body count climbed. The Lensman series was written in the early 50s and Smith was born in 1890. I thought his portrayal of women was a combination of humor and stereotype. Probably couldn't be included today but I had no problem with it 60-odd years ago.

Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 11:59 AM (yTvNw)

428 Protect the Popery Properly!

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 29, 2024 12:00 PM (78a2H)

429 WE HAZ A NOOD

Posted by: Skip at December 29, 2024 12:01 PM (fwDg9)

430 OT, newz: "truck crashes into WATERWAY!!"
Uh, guys, it's a f*cking ditch.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle at December 29, 2024 12:02 PM (PxmRr)

431 A lot have read Watership Down.
Anybody ever set side their Dungeons and Dragons, Tunnels and Trolls, etc. and tried Bunnies and Burrows?

Wiki has an article on it. Was actually published a couple years after the original D&D was. D&D was 1972, B&B was 1976. I first knew about it in the early 80's so it was already out for you about four years... Crap. Was thinking I heard about it shortly after it came out... Looking back, I guess I did...
Reading Wiki further the 2nd Ed B&B was 1982. Must be when I heard of it.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at December 29, 2024 12:02 PM (/lPRQ)

432 397 ... "After he was mentioned a couple of months ago, I got a compilation for my Kindle and use that as a quasi-devotional when I want something more thoughtful than a murder mystery to listen to."

The Delphi collection of George MacDonald's work, fiction and nonfiction, is complete and works well for kindle. I think the cost is $2.99

Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 12:04 PM (yTvNw)

433 nina seized after 30yrs, so with the kids gone i re read cien annos de solidad. the nutflex adaptation is... odd.
my sister gifted me truck, a love story. i am inspired to search out his (michael perry's) other titles. she tells me population 458 is even better. the guy is poignant.

Posted by: cmeat at December 29, 2024 12:10 PM (6+aIJ)

434 Just be aware of the difference between schiessen (pronounced shee-ssen) and scheissen (pronounced shy-ssen).

-SLV
Posted by: Shy Lurking Voter at December 29, 2024 11:38 AM (e/Osv)

Yes! I misread it at first and was confused. Then I checked the vowel order and everything was explained.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 29, 2024 12:19 PM (lFFaq)

435 And once again I get.a prize for being one of the few people who had never seen "Titanic" . People laughed at a me a couple of years ago because I only got around to seeing "Die Hard " then. I enjoyed Die Hard. I don't want to see Titanic
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 29, 2024 10:38 AM (evv0t)

Both movies I have never watched in toto.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 29, 2024 12:20 PM (8zz6B)

436 The Delphi collection of George MacDonald's work, fiction and nonfiction, is complete and works well for kindle. I think the cost is $2.99
Posted by: JTB at December 29, 2024 12:04 PM (yTvNw)

That's probably the one I got.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 29, 2024 12:24 PM (lFFaq)

437 I've read Miracle at Dunkirk many times, so as I sat through the movie I was stirring restlessly in my seat at everything they botched.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 29, 2024 09:47 AM (ZOv7s)

What's sad is what the movie Dunkirk could have been. All sorts of interesting little vignettes could have been culled from Miracle at Dunkirk. Good book. One of the things I learned was how badly morale broke down for the rear echelon troops, although the fighting units retained their cohesion.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at December 29, 2024 01:00 PM (pJWtt)

438 Walter Lord was not the son of the captain of the Californian at the time of the Titanic disaster. The actual captain lived until 1962 -- long enough to react negatively to reports of his portrayal in the 1958 film A NIGHT TO REMEMBER, based on Walter Lord's book.

However, the actions (or inaction) of Captain Lord's ship during the sinking was not depicted in the James Cameron film, perhaps because it would distract from the more important drama of Billy Zane shooting at that annoying young couple below decks rather than secure a place on a lifeboat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Lord

Posted by: Bill the Butcher at December 29, 2024 01:19 PM (gDRaE)

439 Went to Vermont this summer and read many Archer Mayor crime fiction. Fun to listen or read a book and then go through the towns you have heard stories about, true or fiction.
Good series with characters changing over time.

Posted by: jimmymcnulty at December 29, 2024 01:31 PM (zW+7z)

440 107 I dated a girl who's favorite author was Dean Koontz. We're not together anymore. She cheated on me when she went away to college and was a reasonably selfish individual.
------------------------
Sounds like she was a real koont.

Posted by: Dagwood at December 29, 2024 01:31 PM (CC0N1)

441 Jack was a woman.

Posted by: p0indexterous at December 29, 2024 01:36 PM (7S7Mt)

442 The Hyperion series by Dan Simmons is four books. The first two, Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion are the Hyperion Cantos. The series concludes with Endymion and Rise of Endymion. High quality writing all around.

Posted by: Advo at December 29, 2024 02:21 PM (jO4mz)

443 what is the deal with Dean Koontz?

Posted by: Delilah at December 29, 2024 02:25 PM (/XUPT)

444 Highly recommend Elizabeth Goudge!

Posted by: Tammy-al Thor at December 29, 2024 04:46 PM (Ezs10)

445 yeah, sal, (@4

, I nearly tossed it for the preface (o, the irony of a demonrat making that comparison) ... but I persevered.

I actually enjoyed some of the detailed trivia, but that's me & my tastes.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at December 29, 2024 06:23 PM (cY18j)

446 LOVE Watership Down! Definitely recommend. Once you've read the book, the animated movie of the book that scarred kids back in the day is a very good companion, and I like how it depicted the rabbit deity and the rabbit myths to separate them from the main story. The new animated series is utter dreck.

Thanks for your take on Sanderson. He knows how to wrap his stories up in a satisfying bow. And he's put gay characters in series before (sequel to Mistborn.) I know he knows how to edit, he's cut massive bits of text before. But I do hope he's not getting into Tarantino or Rowling mode where no one edits him and he gets sloppy. I read his shorter series and loved them, but I haven't yet attempted the door stopper ones. Don't want to read the unfinished ones until they are fully done.

Posted by: LizLem at December 29, 2024 07:21 PM (gWBY1)

447 Like many golden age science fiction books, the Lensman series by Doc Smith were originally published as a series of stories; the Lensman series were first published beginning in the 1930s.

"Still, when all is said and done, 'Hey, look! What if...uh...what....i-i-if the Roman Empire had B-52s and atomic bombs?!?!?! And...and...a-a-a-nd, they had Hostess Twinkies too!?!?!?!?!?!?'"

Donald Westlake wrote a novel, "God Save the Mark," in which one of the characters had written a book, "Veni Vidi Vici Through Airpower," that posits that Julius Caesar had WW 1 fighter planes during his campaigns against the Gauls.

As for Gulliver being satire rather than science fiction...

Posted by: Pope John 20th at December 29, 2024 08:21 PM (uk4V/)

448 Gulliver, science fiction or satire...

Lots of science fiction has been satire, or perhaps some satire has been science fiction. Just because is is one doesn't mean it can't also be the other. Writers like Doug Adams, Kurt Vonnegut, and Terry Pratchett have all been described as writers of satirical sf. Some of Robt Heinlein's work could also be described as satire.

As for the earliest science fiction, in addition to Lucian's "A True Story" or "True History," the earlier "Epic of Gilgamesh" has also been described as speculative or science fiction. Later than those two and Dante, but much earlier than Swift or Shelley, Cyrano de Bergerac's works "Comical History of the States and Empires of the Moon," and "The States and Empires of the Sun" (both published after his death) have been described as classics of early modern science fiction. Arthur C. Clarke credits Bergerac with the first description of rocket-powered space flight.

Posted by: Pope John 20th at December 29, 2024 08:39 PM (uk4V/)

449 Sanderson apparently consulted on the horrifically woke Wheel of Time Amazon series. It had so much potential and was garbage.

Posted by: Heresolong at December 29, 2024 09:33 PM (evZX6)

450 Just to top the thread off at an even number. And look at that total!

Posted by: Weak Geek likes things neat at December 29, 2024 10:30 PM (p/isN)

451 Completely agree about the Foundation series - I read them, realize that they were the basis on much of subsequent science fiction, but - eh. Just not compelling characters (other than The Mule).
Asimov was always awful about female - and, so was Heinlein, whose strongest characters can best be described as the first Trans-Women. Not like any real woman I've ever known.
The Robot Series mysteries were nifty. The women weren't much like Earth women, but that was OK, as they were aliens/a different culture.
S'Okay. I don't need a "representation of a character that is my sex" to find a story engrossing.

Posted by: Linda S Fox at December 30, 2024 05:41 PM (7Rs+y)

452 Good answers іn return of this question with
firm arguments and desсribing all regarding that.

Posted by: schneider at December 30, 2024 08:15 PM (k2s19)

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