Free Speech Is Under Attack, And There Is No Accommodation With The Attackers

We are not granted the right to speak freely. That is an integral part of our humanity, a God-given, natural right. The 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution merely restricts the government from attempting to control our free speech.

Except...the inexorable slide into totalitarianism that began with the 28th president, the unrepentant racist and socialist Woodrow Wilson*, has accelerated over the past 20+ years, and we are now faced with the total destruction of our freedom. Because without free speech, what do we have?

But there are signs of a revolt against this galloping fascism, and Matt Taibbi has planted his freedom banner firmly in the earth! Sure, he can be a wackadoodle, and I recall at least one of his articles claiming that Donald Trump is "infamously corrupt," without the silly little detail of facts to buttress his claim.

Here is the full text of his recent speech, and it is absolutely worth reading in its entirety.

Matt Taibbi Full Speech at "Rescue the Republic" Event in Washington, DC

“Freedom of speech” is a beautiful phrase, strong, optimistic. It has a ring to it. But it’s being replaced in the discourse by “disinformation” and “misinformation,” words that aren’t beautiful but full of the small, pettifogging, bureaucratic anxiety of a familiar American villain: the busybody, the prohibitionist, the Nosey Parker, the snoop.
H.L. Mencken defined Puritanism as the “haunting fear that someone, somewhere is happy.” That streak of our early European settlers unfortunately survives in us and keeps surfacing through moral panics. Four hundred years ago it was witches, then it was Catholic immigrants, then “the devil’s music,” comic books, booze, communists, and now, information.
Because “freedom of speech” is now frequently described as a stalking horse for hate and discrimination — the UN High Commissioner Volker Türk scolded Elon Musk that “free speech is not a free pass” — it’s becoming one of those soon-to-be-extinct terms. Speech is mentioned in “reputable” media only as a possible vector for the informational disease known as misinformation. Soon all that will remain of the issue for most people is a flutter of the nerves, reminding them to avoid thinking about it.
The end game is not controlling speech. They’re already doing that. The endgame is getting us to forget we ever had anything to say.

As we all know, particularly from Orwell, and as Taibbi points out in his speech, the ultimate point of manipulating language is to take away the vernacular of freedom and liberty. If we do not even have the means to express ourselves, then we are merely serfs.

His last few paragraphs make that point quite forcefully, and he expresses it in exactly the way the budding totalitarians in our government/media complex deserve to be spoken to!

We need to take off our oh-so-polite gloves. Speak to the censors as if they are the scum of the earth, because that is exactly who they are. They plot to destroy our freedoms, and they deserve our contempt and hatred and vitriol...loudly, at length, in public! Give them no quarter, push back at every opportunity, and never let them forget that we outnumber them.

*Yes, there is an argument to be made that our loss of freedoms began with Abraham Lincoln!

[Hat Tip: TC]

Posted by: CBD at 12:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 I'll get em

Posted by: Skip at October 06, 2024 12:01 PM (fwDg9)

2 *Yes, there is an argument to be made that our loss of freedoms began with Abraham Lincoln!

Oh no you di'nt!!

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 06, 2024 12:02 PM (/HDaX)

3 our loss of freedoms began with Abraham Lincoln

I FREED THE WHAT?

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle at October 06, 2024 12:03 PM (JfTEZ)

4 *Yes, there is an argument to be made that our loss of freedoms began with Abraham Lincoln!

Not a very good argument, though.

Posted by: John Adams at October 06, 2024 12:03 PM (rj6Yv)

5 Kerry I saw was warning to my free speech was harmful

Posted by: Skip at October 06, 2024 12:05 PM (fwDg9)

6 BTW, that $700 payment that Biden and Kamala are offering to hurricane victims?

It's a loan.

You have to pay it back in a year.

I bet the $127 million we are sending to Lebanon doesn't have to get paid back in a year.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:05 PM (uxCna)

7 Hillary Clinton has some thoughts on free speech too. Like it should be abolished, else "they" lose power.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 06, 2024 12:06 PM (Q4IgG)

8 If you talk about Hattians eating pets in Springfield, Ohio, you will be referred to the county prosecutor for possible felony charges. If you are Trump and Vance, that is:

https://tinyurl.com/5n6s8cyn
(pdf to Springfield, OH media alert)

Posted by: one hour sober at October 06, 2024 12:08 PM (Y1sOo)

9 The frightening thing is that this is obviously a coordinated effort by the Democratic Party to shut down free speech, if Kamala succeeds in seizing power.

Absent Elon Musk, free speech would have already disappeared.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:08 PM (uxCna)

10 Oh no you di'nt!!

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 06, 2024 12:02 PM (/HDaX)

We're all friends here...I am sure it will be a civil discussion.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 06, 2024 12:09 PM (d9fT1)

11 I think was Justice Stevens (then retired) who said the only way to repeal the 2nd Amendment was limiting or eliminating freedom of speech.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at October 06, 2024 12:09 PM (/lPRQ)

12 Kamala’s Wins
@harris_wins
BREAKING: Republican Senator Susan Collins just slammed Donald Trump for his lies surrounding FEMA cutting funds for illegal immigrants. Retweet to make sure all Americans know that even Republicans are calling BS on Trump’s claims.

-
Surprise twist! That was not Susan Collins. That was CNN News Actress Kaitlin Collins.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 12:10 PM (L/fGl)

13 Absent Elon Musk, free speech would have already disappeared.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:08 PM (uxCna)

Anyone who is a proponent of freedom of speech can't be all bad. That's why Taibbi is important.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 06, 2024 12:10 PM (d9fT1)

14 I bet the $127 million we are sending to Lebanon doesn't have to get paid back in a year.

After all, just because a country chose to accommodate the world's most dangerous terrorist organization for forty years is no reason to deny them aid when things blow up in their face (literally).

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:10 PM (uxCna)

15
We need to take off our oh-so-polite gloves.

That leaves out George Will.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 06, 2024 12:11 PM (63Dwl)

16 Absent Elon Musk, free speech would have already disappeared.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:08 PM (uxCna)

It starts with the yard signs.

Posted by: mrp at October 06, 2024 12:13 PM (rj6Yv)

17 We need to take off our oh-so-polite gloves.

That leaves out George Will.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 06, 2024 12:11 PM (63Dwl)

What a disappointment he has become.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 06, 2024 12:14 PM (d9fT1)

18 Surprise twist! That was not Susan Collins. That was CNN News Actress Kaitlin Collins.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 12:10 PM (L/fGl)

Although it wouldn't surprise me if Susan Collins did...

Posted by: It's me donna at October 06, 2024 12:14 PM (IyPmt)

19 In a civil society we'd not be having this sort of discussion or debate over "free speech."

We're not, and haven't been civil in decades. It's way, way past time to talk about all the differences we've got with the left. They gave up discussing it and are now actively acting on their desires.

We'd best get our own asses in gear.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 06, 2024 12:14 PM (Q4IgG)

20
*Yes, there is an argument to be made that our loss of freedoms began with Abraham Lincoln!

Oh no you di'nt!!
Posted by: Additional Blond Agent

===================

Actually, Thomas Jefferson introduced anti-sedition laws.

It didn't take them long.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at October 06, 2024 12:15 PM (lCaJd)

21 Well said, CBD. Relative to Taibbi's comments on the useless American aristocracy, a dear friend commented that their incredible combination of ignorance and arrogance "undermines non-violence"...

Posted by: Matthew Kant Cipher at October 06, 2024 12:15 PM (gW477)

22 How do you handcuff a one armed man?

Posted by: pawn at October 06, 2024 12:15 PM (QB+5g)

23 Abe has a halo for three reasons:
1. He freed the slaves
2. He wrote with an eloquence few, if any, have attained since
3. He was murdered

But he was imperfect and did act as an authoritarian in some respects. I think if #3 hadn’t occurred his legacy would be different, perhaps less mythological.

Having said all that I still think he was one of our best. But no halo

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at October 06, 2024 12:15 PM (+kWhq)

24 Anyone who is a proponent of freedom of speech can't be all bad. That's why Taibbi is important.

With Twitter controlled by the Blob in 2020, they successfully suppressed the news that the evidence on Hunter Biden's laptop incontrovertibly showed that Biden was taking huge bribes from numerous foreign actors, including from organizations directly tied to Chinese Communist intelligence services.

The successful suppression of that news changed the outcome of the election.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:15 PM (uxCna)

25 What a disappointment he has become.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 06, 2024 12:14 PM (d9fT1)

The men who believe they speak "with a voice for reason" are the first ones to fold.

Posted by: mrp at October 06, 2024 12:15 PM (rj6Yv)

26 There are misguided souls who opine openly that maple syrup is not an acceptable part of one's daily breakfast repast. I pity these poor folks, but will stand with them being able to broadcast their folly on smart and dumb military blogs.

Posted by: Penguin Pete at October 06, 2024 12:16 PM (CV8a5)

27 What a disappointment he has become.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 06, 2024 12:14 PM (d9fT1)

Bowtie out front shoulda told ya.

Whether it's a NoI thug or a ConInc fruit basket, the bowtie is always a bright red flag.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at October 06, 2024 12:17 PM (awTae)

28 Kerry I saw was warning to my free speech was harmful
Posted by: Skip

Well, your free speech is only God given; his is government given.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 12:17 PM (L/fGl)

29 their incredible combination of ignorance and arrogance "undermines non-violence"...

Posted by: Matthew Kant Cipher at October 06, 2024 12:15 PM (gW477)

Yes. The 2nd Amendment guarantees the 1st Amendment.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 06, 2024 12:17 PM (d9fT1)

30 Anyone who demands we compromise on any of our rights is not one of our countrymen. Sadly, ignoring them is not an option.

Posted by: NR Pax at October 06, 2024 12:17 PM (lXCUP)

31 >>Absent Elon Musk, free speech would have already disappeared.

Been saying since the day he bought Twitter it was the most important move to preserve free speech in my lifetime. That's why they hate him.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 06, 2024 12:17 PM (LkLld)

32 Actually, Thomas Jefferson introduced anti-sedition laws.

It didn't take them long.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at October 06, 2024 12:15 PM (lCaJd)

No, he didn't. I did.

My dear friend Thomas protested vociferously when my legislation was enacted, but once he became president, he applied them with gusto.

Posted by: John Adams at October 06, 2024 12:18 PM (rj6Yv)

33 How do you handcuff a one armed man?
Posted by: pawn
------------
Are we doing mixed metaphors again?

Posted by: scampydog at October 06, 2024 12:18 PM (t74p4)

34 The men who believe they speak "with a voice for reason" are the first ones to fold.

Posted by: mrp at October 06, 2024 12:15 PM (rj6Yv)

Yes...exactly!

And we are in a post-reason country, so it is going to become more and more unreasonable.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 06, 2024 12:19 PM (d9fT1)

35 Whether it's a NoI thug or a ConInc fruit basket, the bowtie is always a bright red flag.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at October 06, 2024 12:17 PM (awTae)

Well I never!

Posted by: Bill Nye, the Science Guy at October 06, 2024 12:19 PM (PiwSw)

36 Free Speech?

Well, a fake "artist" hanging a giant model of Trump in effigy is "starting a political conversation," you see.

It's not a "marionette," it's hanging a politician figure in effigy. Because, you know, *someone* needs to *stop* "literally hitler."

https://youtu.be/lVX4w430jEc
?si=cgr5V02SqpvGN_wh&t=23

Posted by: Soothsayer at October 06, 2024 12:19 PM (aBbkg)

37 the UN High Commissioner Volker Türk scolded Elon Musk that “free speech is not a free pass”

What exactly does that mean? What are the penalties you propose for when I engage in speech of which you disapprove.

Here's some speech I suspect you'll dislike: ESAD, you little fascist.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 06, 2024 12:19 PM (xCA6C)

38 "Been saying since the day he bought Twitter it was the most important move to preserve free speech in my lifetime. That's why they hate him."

It's kind of scary that one man can make such a difference.

I hate the corollary where one bullet can make such a difference.

Posted by: pawn at October 06, 2024 12:19 PM (QB+5g)

39 > We need to take off our oh-so-polite gloves.

That leaves out George Will.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 06, 2024 12:11 PM (63Dwl)

What a disappointment he has become.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 06, 2024 12:14 PM (d9fT1)
-------
The mistake was allowing someone like Will to "speak for us." I'm tired of the bullshit "voices of reason" on the right being soft and doughy pieces of crap that melt under a hard stare.

I speak for me. Or something like that.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 06, 2024 12:20 PM (Q4IgG)

40 GenZ is all in on banning “hate” speech. What is the speech? Anything they don’t like.

Posted by: Settled Science at October 06, 2024 12:20 PM (mqBK+)

41
btw, that dehumanizing, idiotic, and garbage "conversation starter" has left Las Vegas and will be TOURING several swing states.

Really.

Posted by: Soothsayer at October 06, 2024 12:20 PM (aBbkg)

42 Bowtie out front shoulda told ya.

Whether it's a NoI thug or a ConInc fruit basket, the bowtie is always a bright red flag.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at October 06, 2024 12:17 PM (awTae)

Bill Nye has entered the chat.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at October 06, 2024 12:21 PM (E50Nb)

43 “Vice” Director Adam McKay Trashes Fellow Democrats For Celebrating “War Criminal” Dick Cheney: "Way Worse" Than Trump

-
Good. Good. Let the dark side flow through you.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 12:21 PM (L/fGl)

44 Reports from Iran: All flights canceled starting 2100 this evening until 0600 tomorrow morning,
@guyelster
reports. Tensions are rising across the Middle East...

Looks like the Israeli strike is imminent.

Not to worry, I'm sure Biden and Kamala are currently ensconced in the Situation Room monitoring things, and ready to take decisive action if necessary.

LOL.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:21 PM (uxCna)

45 Oh no you di'nt!!

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 06, 2024 12:02 PM (/HDaX)

We're all friends here...I am sure it will be a civil discussion.

The triumph of hope over experience...

Posted by: Archimedes at October 06, 2024 12:21 PM (xCA6C)

46 >>It's kind of scary that one man can make such a difference.

>>I hate the corollary where one bullet can make such a difference.

It is but he is starting to get some help. Anyone who is on Twitter should follow Mike Benz. He has been systematically exposing in great detail the censorship machine within our government. It's massive and very aggressive but it's starting to be exposed.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 06, 2024 12:22 PM (LkLld)

47 >>> Hillary Clinton has some thoughts on free speech too. Like it should be abolished, else "they" lose power. Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 06, 2024 12:06 PM (Q4IgG)

I saw that. Absolutely chilling. Breitbart has a good summary.

"We should be, in my view, repealing something called section 230, which gave platforms on the internet immunity because they were thought to be just pass-throughs, that they shouldn’t be judged for the content that is posted. But we now know that that was an overly simple view, that if the platforms, whether it’s Facebook or Twitter, X or Instagram or TikTok, whatever they are, if they don’t moderate and monitor the content we lose total control and it’s not just the social and psychological effects it’s real harm, it’s child porn and threats of violence, things that are terribly dangerous.

She added, “Remove the immunity from liability and we need to have guardrails, we need regulation. We’ve conducted a big experiment on ourselves and particularly our kids and I think the evidence is in. We’ve got to do more, take phones out of schools. I’m so happy to see schools beginning to do that where kids turn their phone in..."

Posted by: LizLem at October 06, 2024 12:22 PM (QAK8m)

48 Not to worry, I'm sure Biden and Kamala are currently ensconced in the Situation Room monitoring things, and ready to take decisive action if necessary.

LOL.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:21 PM (uxCna)

Joes at Camp David but I'm sure he'll be on the phone and Commanding

Posted by: It's me donna at October 06, 2024 12:23 PM (IyPmt)

49 Hillary Clinton has some thoughts on free speech too. Like it should be abolished, else "they" lose power. Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 06, 2024 12:06 PM (Q4IgG)

I saw that. Absolutely chilling. Breitbart has a good summary.

That's a bit misleading. The problem with 230 is that it provides protection against libel for those situations when it suits the site, and allows them to censor when it doesn't. They have to pick one.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 06, 2024 12:25 PM (xCA6C)

50 Speaking of free speech not being suppressed, has anyone noticed that the release of Jack Smith's incriminating dossier, which was supposed to torpedo Trump before the election, without giving Trump a chance to respond, has been a complete nothingburger?

Not even the Left can be bothered to pay much attention to it.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:25 PM (uxCna)

51
One last thing (before my next thing) :

Immediately after Elon Musk appeared in Butler, last night, fake news cnn felt the need to explain to their shithead fascist ignorant viewers "Why Musk Was In Butler With Trump." Really. That was the text of the chiron/title of the segment.

They "explained" that Musk was, get this, attracted to Trump's "authoritarianism." So, that's why.

Posted by: Soothsayer at October 06, 2024 12:25 PM (aBbkg)

52 I've got the Con until 3:00, then Phil from Facilities Maintenance takes over.

Posted by: Juanita from Housekeeping at October 06, 2024 12:26 PM (dg+HA)

53 Posted by: Soothsayer at October 06, 2024 12:19 PM (aBbkg)

Use a URL shortening app please.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 06, 2024 12:27 PM (d9fT1)

54 Whether it's a NoI thug or a ConInc fruit basket, the bowtie is always a bright red flag.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice

Wait. Pee-wee Herman wore a bowtie!

Posted by: Cowboy Curtis at October 06, 2024 12:27 PM (CV8a5)

55 I saw that. Absolutely chilling. Breitbart has a good summary.

That's a bit misleading. The problem with 230 is that it provides protection against libel for those situations when it suits the site, and allows them to censor when it doesn't. They have to pick one.

Whenever someone tries to justify censorship on such a site, child porn is invoked. Newsflash: that's already completely illegal. Anyone making that argument is being disingenuous.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 06, 2024 12:27 PM (xCA6C)

56 It's kind of scary that one man can make such a difference.

The future of the American Republic is indeed on a knife-edge at the moment.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:27 PM (uxCna)

57 One last thing (before my next thing) :

Immediately after Elon Musk appeared in Butler, last night, fake news cnn felt the need to explain to their shithead fascist ignorant viewers "Why Musk Was In Butler With Trump." Really. That was the text of the chiron/title of the segment.

They "explained" that Musk was, get this, attracted to Trump's "authoritarianism." So, that's why.

And if there's one thing we know about Musk, it's that he's a follower and will do whatever he's told.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 06, 2024 12:28 PM (xCA6C)

58
No, he didn't. I did.

My dear friend Thomas protested vociferously when my legislation was enacted, but once he became president, he applied them with gusto.
Posted by: John Adams

==================

Pardonnez-mois. It took them even less time than I had thought.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at October 06, 2024 12:28 PM (lCaJd)

59 This Ukraine /Russia war is working out real well for everybody except the poor slobs on the front lines.

Half of Russia’s War Shells Being Supplied By North Korea

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 12:29 PM (L/fGl)

60 Whenever someone tries to justify censorship on such a site, child porn is invoked.

And drug dealing.

If you support people having secure communications that the government can't hack into, you support drug dealers.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:30 PM (uxCna)

61 The successful suppression of that news changed the outcome of the election.
Posted by: The ARC of History!
===
Leaky toilet in Atlanta that made ballot tabulars in five states stuff the ballot boxes for days after the election ended may have had more impact.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at October 06, 2024 12:30 PM (/lPRQ)

62 I'm off to deploy some free speech on the golf course. Assuming I will be down to about four non-Sunday words.

Posted by: scampydog at October 06, 2024 12:30 PM (t74p4)

63 We’ve got to do more, take phones out of schools. I’m so happy to see schools beginning to do that where kids turn their phone in..."

—

Can’t disagree with this.
My kid’s school has a strict no phones allowed during class policy. 3 strikes and its suspension.

Posted by: Settled Science at October 06, 2024 12:30 PM (mqBK+)

64 As ghoulish as Hillary Clinton is, I agree with her on two things:

One, the research IS finally pouring in on how corrosive early exposure of social media is to kids. But the states getting pushback for trying to reuse the age of social media for kids are the red states; Utah got mocked by the left as nanny state prudes when we tried to raise the age limits.

Two, I totally agree with her statement: "We’ve conducted a big experiment on ourselves and particularly our kids and I think the evidence is in. We’ve got to do more." We've done many social experiments: DEI, critical race theory, removing the father from the home and destroying the family unit with the Great Society, unfettered immigration, removing accountability from welfare. All of these experiments are dismal failures. All of them negatively impact kids.

These experiments would make an honest left agree to abolish them. But of course that's not the experiments Clinton wants to abolish. She wants to abolish the experiment of the first amendment, and that people are allowed to think and say mean, unpopular, false, inconvenient, big government, anti-totalitarian things on social media.

Posted by: LizLem at October 06, 2024 12:31 PM (QAK8m)

65 Ironically enough child prom is something the left is very much into. So banning speech to stop it, is double plus hilarious.

Posted by: Settled Science at October 06, 2024 12:31 PM (mqBK+)

66 The end game is not controlling speech. They’re already doing that. The endgame is getting us to forget we ever had anything to say.

I would add: And if we still remember, then we'd better remain silent, if we know what's good for us.

Posted by: Diogenes at October 06, 2024 12:32 PM (W/lyH)

67 Speaking of free speech not being suppressed, has anyone noticed that the release of Jack Smith's incriminating dossier, which was supposed to torpedo Trump before the election, without giving Trump a chance to respond, has been a complete nothingburger?

Not even the Left can be bothered to pay much attention to it.
Posted by: The ARC of History!

CNN’s Top Legal Analyst Slams Jack Smith

-
I guess even CNN knows when the jig is up.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 12:32 PM (L/fGl)

68 People who hate Lincoln include people who also think the Beatles are overrated, Larry Bird was only considered good because he was white and Van Gogh painted like a 6 year old.

Posted by: Sebation Melmoth at October 06, 2024 12:32 PM (D6PGr)

69 Kamala Harris reassures world that she is still confident in Joe Biden's mental ability to serve president despite recent gaffes

Posted by: Doug Blake at October 06, 2024 12:33 PM (/7KEl)

70 People who hate Lincoln include people who also think the Beatles are overrated, Larry Bird was only considered good because he was white and Van Gogh painted like a 6 year old.

And people who refuse to accept that Liberace was gay.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 06, 2024 12:34 PM (xCA6C)

71 There is a guy in prison because Hillary and her cohorts didn’t like his obvious internet meme.

Posted by: Sebation Melmoth at October 06, 2024 12:34 PM (D6PGr)

72 I keep forgetting Biden exists.

Posted by: Settled Science at October 06, 2024 12:34 PM (mqBK+)

73
If you support people having secure communications that the government can't hack into, you support drug dealers.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:30 PM (uxCna)

Speaking of smartphones, it occurs to me that patriots, and other who might find themselves at odds with the Regime, need to have a foolproof way to wipe their phone clean in the event of impending arrest. A voice command, then "are you sure?", followed by a unique confirmation phrase known only to the owner of the phone, say, "the chair is against the wall".

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at October 06, 2024 12:35 PM (E50Nb)

74 So lying is good? Of course, MAGA believes that.

Posted by: Sid at October 06, 2024 12:35 PM (FXHPp)

75 You can have all the free speech and the world but the elections are rigged.

You're going to need to take the country back by force.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 06, 2024 12:35 PM (xIFh6)

76 Hillary Clinton Says Calls For Mass Censorship of American Citizens Or “We Lose Total Control”

/true because it was on the internet

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at October 06, 2024 12:35 PM (/lPRQ)

77 72 so has most of government for that matter

Posted by: Skip at October 06, 2024 12:35 PM (fwDg9)

78 This Ukraine /Russia war is working out real well for everybody except the poor slobs on the front lines.

The London Times had an article about how desperate the military recruiters are getting in Odessa - the article is called:

Conscription tactics get dirty as war-weary Ukrainians defy draft

Under pressure to mobilise 200,000 extra soldiers, Ukraine army recruiters are resorting to checkpoints, bundling men off the street and ignoring exemptions

Ukraine is simply running out of men.

https://tinyurl.com/mr36nhpy

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:36 PM (uxCna)

79 Sid has more projection than Kamala after gagging on Willie Brown’s schlong.

Posted by: Sebation Melmoth at October 06, 2024 12:36 PM (D6PGr)

80 Sid the cum receptacle has made an appearance. What’s up buddy.

Posted by: Settled Science at October 06, 2024 12:37 PM (mqBK+)

81 If you support people having secure communications that the government can't hack into, you support drug dealers.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:30 PM (uxCna)

Speaking of smartphones, it occurs to me that patriots, and other who might find themselves at odds with the Regime, need to have a foolproof way to wipe their phone clean in the event of impending arrest. A voice command, then "are you sure?", followed by a unique confirmation phrase known only to the owner of the phone, say, "the chair is against the wall".

NSA goon talking to his boss: I don't know, boss, he just kept shouting something about John having a long moustache.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 06, 2024 12:37 PM (xCA6C)

82 71 There is a guy in prison because Hillary and her cohorts didn’t like his obvious internet meme.
Posted by: Sebation Melmoth

Liberace went to court and won a lawsuit against the press who reported he was gay. Have you or I done that?

Posted by: The Great Poof at October 06, 2024 12:37 PM (CV8a5)

83 So this is today's "First World Problems" thread?

Right?

RIGHT???

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 06, 2024 12:38 PM (xIFh6)

84 MFM is furious that Trump went back to Butler. The assassination attempt was supposed to be memory holed damn it!!

Posted by: Settled Science at October 06, 2024 12:39 PM (mqBK+)

85 Liberace went to court and won a lawsuit against the press who reported he was gay.
Posted by: The Great Poof at October 06, 2024 12:37 PM (CV8a5)
-

What were his key arguments?

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 06, 2024 12:40 PM (xIFh6)

86 >>> The problem with 230 is that it provides protection against libel for those situations when it suits the site, and allows them to censor when it doesn't. They have to pick one.

How does it go, are you a publisher vs are you a platform? Like how the phone company can't monitor what you say, it gives you a platform to talk. Social media needs to be treated like the phone company, unfettered speech on it and break down the monopolies when they get too large. But congress is full of myopic dinosaurs who probably don't even know how to change their phone's screen photo, intelligently discussing tech is beyond many of them. Plus they get kickbacks, so I don't see how that changes.

Posted by: LizLem at October 06, 2024 12:40 PM (QAK8m)

87 Speech may be free but Kamala should've paid a little more for her teleprompter.

Disaster Strikes as Kamala Harris' Teleprompter Goes Out During Speech

https://is.gd/CI8v1p

-
Old and busted: Number nine. Number nine.

New and cool: Thirty two. Thirty two

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 12:40 PM (L/fGl)

88 encyclopedia.com:

The Origins and Early Development of Free Speech in the United States

Historically, censorship goes back much further. The Crown and the Church cited misinformation and disinformation centuries ago, calling dissent treason.

That's why the Founders and Framers warned against censorship, even if they sometimes indulged in it themselves.

All forms of tyranny originate in the Fall of Man because the devil comes to steal.

Posted by: The Gipper Lives. at October 06, 2024 12:41 PM (OVgOc)

89 Half of Russia’s War Shells Being Supplied By North Korea
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 12:29 PM (L/fGl)

I strongly suspect that's not true.

It serves somebody's purpose to say it is, but it wouldn't make sense, because Russia's war production is going just fine.

Now, if in the normal trade give and take they're importing some components from the Nork, I don't see why not.

I mean, there isn't a single American war plane that would be in the sky, if it weren't for the components we get from Chi Nah.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 12:41 PM (T+YTi)

90 "Over 100 residents in the northwestern suburbs of Detroit found antisemitic flyers outside their homes days before the anniversary of the October 7 attack against Israel.

The 'virulent' material was discovered overnight on Friday by people living in West Bloomfield Township and Farmington Hills, according to police."

***

This will be considered "free speech" however, not a hate crime.

(When I lived in Michigan, West Bloomfield was predominately Jewish, Farmington Hills somewhat less so).

Posted by: one hour sober at October 06, 2024 12:41 PM (Y1sOo)

91 What were his key arguments?
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey

He wasn't fabulous enough to be gay.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 12:42 PM (L/fGl)

92 Liberace went to court and won a lawsuit against the press who reported he was gay.
Posted by: The Great Poof at October 06, 2024 12:37 PM (CV8a5)
-

What were his key arguments?
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 06, 2024 12:40 PM (xIFh6)
-

I hope it didn't start with A minor!

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 06, 2024 12:42 PM (xIFh6)

93 Surprise twist! That was not Susan Collins. That was CNN News Actress Kaitlin Collins.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 12:10 PM (L/fGl)

TOP. MEN.

Posted by: Napoleon XIV at October 06, 2024 12:43 PM (AiZBA)

94 "Over 100 residents in the northwestern suburbs of Detroit found antisemitic flyers outside their homes days before the anniversary of the October 7 attack against Israel.

—

They don’t hate Jews. They just oppose Israeli policies.

Wink.

Posted by: Settled Science at October 06, 2024 12:43 PM (mqBK+)

95 I tried to make this point clear to my students this week, when going over the Constitution and the Bill of Rights: these are rights we possess as human beings, not because the government said we could.

Whether they appreciated the point or not, or were even listening, I have no idea.

Posted by: Dr. T at October 06, 2024 12:43 PM (s37Dq)

96 I'd be interested to hear what, specifically, Hillary thinks "needs to be done" to combat censorship, make kids safe, and so on. Her commentary was vague. Deliberately.

I seriously doubt her private thoughts on those things are in anyone but her best interest.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 06, 2024 12:43 PM (Q4IgG)

97
-
I guess even CNN knows when the jig is up.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 12:32 PM

Gregory Hines knew when the jig was up!

Posted by: Tom Servo at October 06, 2024 12:44 PM (S6gqv)

98 All forms of tyranny originate in the Fall of Man because the devil comes to steal.
Posted by: The Gipper Lives. at October 06, 2024 12:41 PM (OVgOc)

The Lard our God: Eve, did the devil tell you to give that apple to Adam?

Eve L: That's disinformation and misinformation, G man. You should be deplatformed.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 12:44 PM (T+YTi)

99 A question that pops up here from time to time is; "who's running the country?"

I think I have the answer.

It's whoever is running the teleprompter. Seriously.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 06, 2024 12:45 PM (Q4IgG)

100 Have read Taibbi's speech several times. I still get jazzed by it.

Posted by: Diogenes at October 06, 2024 12:45 PM (W/lyH)

101 tried to make this point clear to my students this week, when going over the Constitution and the Bill of Rights: these are rights we possess as human beings, not because the government said we could.

Whether they appreciated the point or not, or were even listening, I have no idea.
Posted by: Dr. T at October 06, 2024 12:43 PM (s37Dq)

It has been said here many times by many commentators that The Bill of Rights is a misnomer in that it doesn’t necessarily grant rights but prevents the government from taking away those god given rights.

Posted by: Sebation Melmoth at October 06, 2024 12:46 PM (D6PGr)

102 I'd be interested to hear what, specifically, Hillary thinks "needs to be done" to combat censorship, make kids safe, and so on. Her commentary was vague. Deliberately.

I seriously doubt her private thoughts on those things are in anyone but her best interest.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 06, 2024 12:43 PM (Q4IgG)

Assuming she's allowed to have her own thoughts about anything, I suspect she has very little interest in trying to get Cummala elected, and only concerns herself with staying out of prison.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 12:46 PM (T+YTi)

103 Whenever someone tries to justify censorship on such a site, child porn is invoked.

And drug dealing.

If you support people having secure communications that the government can't hack into, you support drug dealers.
Posted by: The ARC of History!
==========

Similarly they are the ones overtly supporting the sexual mutilation of children which is orders of magnitude more depraved than the example they cite.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at October 06, 2024 12:46 PM (/lPRQ)

104 Thx CBD. Either you have free speech or you don't. Disinformation or misinformation is stuff the powers that be aka the Dems and/uniparty doesn't like. It's all about "total control" as drunken psycho Hillary says

Posted by: Smell the Glove at October 06, 2024 12:46 PM (O8bOp)

105 Ooooo! I was 100!

Posted by: Diogenes at October 06, 2024 12:47 PM (W/lyH)

106 Well, time for me to get on with my day.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at October 06, 2024 12:47 PM (E50Nb)

107 Two strategies to respond to this:

1) Try to jail the censors wherever you can

2) Censor the censors wherever you can

I don't see any real organized effort for either.

There is an attempt to make the left recognize they are being hypocritical but that will get you no where because they don't care. They want power. End of Story.

Posted by: 18-1 at October 06, 2024 12:49 PM (oZhjI)

108 I tried to make this point clear to my students this week, when going over the Constitution and the Bill of Rights: these are rights we possess as human beings, not because the government said we could.

Whether they appreciated the point or not, or were even listening, I have no idea.

On my way past the local RC church, I noticed a sign out front that said "The government cannot deny my inalienable rights". That got me to musing about the word "inalienable" (or unalienable if you prefer). I've heard that phrase thousands of times, but it ever really sank in that what they're saying is those rights come from God, and government has no say in it and cannot take them away.

Our founders were wise.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 06, 2024 12:49 PM (xCA6C)

109 How does it go, are you a publisher vs are you a platform? Like how the phone company can't monitor what you say, it gives you a platform to talk. Social media needs to be treated like the phone company, unfettered speech on it and break down the monopolies when they get too large. But congress is full of myopic dinosaurs who probably don't even know how to change their phone's screen photo, intelligently discussing tech is beyond many of them. Plus they get kickbacks, so I don't see how that changes.
Posted by: LizLem at October 06, 2024 12:40 PM (QAK8m)

The Patriot Act called and said "About that privacy of phone calls thing....."

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 12:49 PM (T+YTi)

110 You must suppress a doctor’s free speech that contends that ivermectin is a successful treatment for COVID and that he is prevented from prescribing it under risk of punishment.

Posted by: Sebation Melmoth at October 06, 2024 12:49 PM (D6PGr)

111 I love that a nonprofit,the Haitian Bridge Alliance, tried to get Trump and Vance arrested for the "eating the dogs and cats" comments in Ohio. They filed a criminal complaint requesting charges including induced panic, disrupting public services, and making false alarms. Say it's a felony.

The judge threw it out as a political stunt close to an election, and was basically like "I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul." Bless them!

Posted by: LizLem at October 06, 2024 12:49 PM (QAK8m)

112 The judge threw it out as a political stunt close to an election, and was basically like "I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul." Bless them!

I think it's starting to dawn on some of the smarter judges that there's a very good chance Trump will win, and they'd better tone down the activism.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 06, 2024 12:53 PM (xCA6C)

113 Hillary: We’ve conducted a big experiment on ourselves and particularly our kids and I think the evidence is in.

She's not wrong about that. And the evidence is that Gen Z is (slowly) moving to the right. And that's why they can't allow it.

Posted by: Oddbob at October 06, 2024 12:53 PM (/y8xj)

114 CBD, Thank you. I will never call abortion health care, there is only XX and XY and no such thing as trans and a pedophile is a child molester regardless of all the alphabet you try to cover it up with.

Posted by: Ben Had at October 06, 2024 12:53 PM (I1GXe)

115 >>The judge threw it out as a political stunt

See the link to the pdf in my comment #8.

The court found no grounds for misdemeanor charges. The county prosecutor is reviewing possible felony charges.

Posted by: one hour sober at October 06, 2024 12:53 PM (Y1sOo)

116 32 Actually, Thomas Jefferson introduced anti-sedition laws.

It didn't take them long.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at October 06, 2024 12:15 PM (lCaJd)

No, he didn't. I did.

My dear friend Thomas protested vociferously when my legislation was enacted, but once he became president, he applied them with gusto.
Posted by: John Adams
----
Complication--Thomas Jefferson and Co argued that STATE seditious libel laws were okay. Just not federal Alien and Sedition Act because the 1st Amendment only was directed at Congress.

FWIW State seditious libel laws predated the Alien and Sedition Act of 1798. And states got down and funky over time restricting speech to the point of requiring ministers to have government licenses to preach in some states before the Civil War.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 12:53 PM (bt/Nj)

117 >>> The Patriot Act called and said "About that privacy of phone calls thing....."
Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 12:49 PM (T+YTi)

Well, that's been going on since dear J Edgar Hoover's day, if not before.

Just rewatched Clue, and there's a gem of a joke in there. The cop lets the butler know they have a call from Hoover and the FBI. He asks why he got a call from Hoover.

Answer: I don't know... he's on everyone else's phone, why shouldn't he be on mine?

Posted by: LizLem at October 06, 2024 12:54 PM (QAK8m)

118 The court found no grounds for misdemeanor charges. The county prosecutor is reviewing possible felony charges.
Posted by: one hour sober at October 06, 2024 12:53 PM (Y1sOo)

Sounds like the county prosecutor is eating the dogs and the cats.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 12:55 PM (T+YTi)

119 Eh, I’m of the opinion that the Constitution was almost immediately thought of as a set of guidelines, rather than rules, before the ink was good and dry.

The revolution began over taxes and lack of representation & redress.

Within five years of the enactment of the constitution, Washington was riding off with 13,000 men to end the Whiskey Rebellion, which was about… taxes and lack of redress.

“A republic, if you can keep it.”
- Ben Franklin

Posted by: SpeakingOf at October 06, 2024 12:55 PM (6ydKt)

120 10 Oh no you di'nt!!

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 06, 2024 12:02 PM (/HDaX)

We're all friends here...I am sure it will be a civil discussion.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo
----------------------------------------------

For prosecution of Lincoln on should listen to this
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pZG7snE7tU .

I don't particularly like the guy or his style of presentation; However, he has researched the material and his prosecution of Lincoln is profound.

Posted by: Braenyard at October 06, 2024 12:56 PM (4v7VO)

121 She's not wrong about that. And the evidence is that Gen Z is (slowly) moving to the right. And that's why they can't allow it.
Posted by: Oddbob at October 06, 2024 12:53 PM (/y8xj)

Half of GenZ. The dudes are based. The chicks are doing the opposite and moving far left.

Posted by: Settled Science at October 06, 2024 12:56 PM (mqBK+)

122 Free Speech in history is always attacked when you get more diversity because the political types fear for their safety (same for weapons regulation or elimination).

When you have political arguments that are not addressable by money (Liberty (or lack thereof--slavery) for example), questions of religion, etc. then you get harsh repression of dissenting views if the gubmint is strong enough to do so. You get a civil war if it is not.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 12:56 PM (bt/Nj)

123 Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 12:49 PM (T+YTi)

Well, that's been going on since dear J Edgar Hoover's day, if not before.

Just rewatched Clue, and there's a gem of a joke in there. The cop lets the butler know they have a call from Hoover and the FBI. He asks why he got a call from Hoover.

Answer: I don't know... he's on everyone else's phone, why shouldn't he be on mine?
Posted by: LizLem at October 06, 2024 12:54 PM (QAK8m)

The difference is, the Patriot Act allowed them to not just tap landlines, but get cell phone companies to give them data, and allow them to "listen in" on calls, without a court order.

Regardless of how nasty and unconstitutional Hoover's actions were, they didn't go anywhere near this far.

The Patriot Act needs to be repealed.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 12:56 PM (T+YTi)

124 They don’t hate Jews. They just oppose Israeli policies.

The Shapiro VP fiasco was instructive.

Shapiro basically said "I support Israel, but I hate Netanyahu, and I hope Israel gets a left-wing government."

Prior to October 7th, this would have been an acceptable position to take to stay within the good graces of the Democratic left, but now nothing less than supporting the destruction of the State of Israel is acceptable.

They no longer pretend that the problem is that Israel has a right-wing government - the problem is that Israel continues to exist.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:58 PM (uxCna)

125 And now for something completely different. When you think John Deere, you think airplanes.

https://youtu.be/PLsoT_zm-SY

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 12:58 PM (L/fGl)

126 Patriot Act. One of the man gifts the Bush crime family has given us.

Posted by: Settled Science at October 06, 2024 12:58 PM (mqBK+)

127 I went to the yahoo splash page this morning to see how the idiots covered the Butler rally. They didn’t! Nowhere to be found…. Like it didn’t happen. But they did inform you that Kamala was in NC coordinating Helene relief…. For the 1000th time, we don’t hate the press enough

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at October 06, 2024 12:59 PM (dTIZ+)

128 >The Patriot Act needs to be repealed.

---

it's too big for a repeal. It has a TSA and a DHS in it.

Posted by: Dieter Bauhaus at October 06, 2024 12:59 PM (/7KEl)

129 Half of GenZ. The dudes are based. The chicks are doing the opposite and moving far left.
Posted by: Settled Science
====
Movement is almost all by Gen Z males. Gen Z females have not changed (within margin of error) much since 2016 or so.

Young males are voting against a rigged system and society that oppresses them by and large and tries to feminize them aka fix them via repression.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 12:59 PM (bt/Nj)

130 it's too big for a repeal. It has a TSA and a DHS in it.
Posted by: Dieter Bauhaus at October 06, 2024 12:59 PM (/7KEl)
-

D.O.G.E.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 06, 2024 12:59 PM (xIFh6)

131 The difference is, the Patriot Act allowed them to not just tap landlines, but get cell phone companies to give them data, and allow them to "listen in" on calls, without a court order.

Regardless of how nasty and unconstitutional Hoover's actions were, they didn't go anywhere near this far.

The Patriot Act needs to be repealed.
Posted by: BurtTC
=====
Fun fact. The Chicoms apparently hacked this surveillance ecosystem and got gobs of data from federal surveillance databases. Story came out today.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:00 PM (bt/Nj)

132 The Patriot Act needs to be repealed.
Posted by: BurtTC

Rather elaborate response to 9-11. Almost like it was sitting on a shelf waiting to be pulled down..
More direct response would have been more effective - lay waste to the apparent sponsor nations, call it done.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at October 06, 2024 01:01 PM (/lPRQ)

133 . Like it didn’t happen. But they did inform you that Kamala was in NC coordinating Helene relief…. For the 1000th time, we don’t hate the press enough
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at October 06, 2024 12:59 PM (dTIZ+)

I saw that. She looked to be at an airport with the Dem. Gov. and some National guard.. She read a teleprompter speech and took no questions and left. No comforting the victims because none were where she was.

Posted by: It's me donna at October 06, 2024 01:02 PM (IyPmt)

134 Fun fact. The Chicoms apparently hacked this surveillance ecosystem and got gobs of data from federal surveillance databases.

That's the problem with rules saying that the government gets a backdoor into communications - then anyone who can plausibly simulate being the government can also use the backdoor.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 01:02 PM (uxCna)

135 Movement is almost all by Gen Z males. Gen Z females have not changed (within margin of error) much since 2016 or so.

—

I don’t have access to data right now. But I’ve seen and heard reports that it’s happening both ways. Men are going right and women left. Even more left than usual for that age group.

Also GenZ is a wide span of people. there could be micro movements within the overall generation. And half of them are still too young to vote. So it will take some time to sort it all out.

Posted by: Settled Science at October 06, 2024 01:02 PM (mqBK+)

136 The Patriot Act needs to be repealed.

---

it's too big for a repeal. It has a TSA and a DHS in it.
Posted by: Dieter Bauhaus at October 06, 2024 12:59 PM (/7KEl)

It really is amazing how quickly DHS went from Tom Ridge and George Bush thinking they were keeping terrorist out, to Alihandrow My Orc Ass letting them all in through our southern border.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 01:03 PM (T+YTi)

137 Speaking of planes, if you've got $5,000,000, you can buy a part of History.

https://is.gd/BcJRQG

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 01:03 PM (L/fGl)

138 >More direct response would have been more effective - lay waste to the apparent sponsor nations, call it done.

---

that was a real question after 9/11

'Who do we bomb?'

Posted by: Dieter Bauhaus at October 06, 2024 01:03 PM (/7KEl)

139 Men are going right and women left. Even more left than usual for that age group.

For Gen Z women, the "right" to unrestricted abortion is far more important than any other issue. By far.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 01:04 PM (uxCna)

140 Fun fact. The Chicoms apparently hacked this surveillance ecosystem and got gobs of data from federal surveillance databases.
----
That's the problem with rules saying that the government gets a backdoor into communications - then anyone who can plausibly simulate being the government can also use the backdoor.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 01:02 PM (uxCna)

It doesn't help when all your hardware is made in Chi Nah.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 01:04 PM (T+YTi)

141 110 You must suppress a doctor’s free speech that contends that ivermectin is a successful treatment for COVID and that he is prevented from prescribing it under risk of punishment.

Posted by: Sebation Melmoth
---------------------------

Doctors have become much more circumspect with their language and the sharing of personal opinions with patients than they were pre-covid. Governments heavy hand has adulterated all forms of private intercourse.

Posted by: Braenyard at October 06, 2024 01:05 PM (4v7VO)

142 For Gen Z women, the "right" to unrestricted abortion is far more important than any other issue. By far.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 01:04 PM (uxCna)

That’s definitely part of it.

Posted by: Settled Science at October 06, 2024 01:05 PM (mqBK+)

143 Can't say know a whole lot but seems to what I read Israeli Left wing governments suck up and bow to Muslims and get slaughter by them anyway.

Posted by: Skip at October 06, 2024 01:06 PM (fwDg9)

144 Speaking of free speech and Lincoln, there was an anti-war copperhead in Ohio named Clement Vallandigham…. He went to prison for making a speech. Not a good look for Lincoln

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at October 06, 2024 01:06 PM (/suuz)

145 It doesn't help when all your hardware is made in Chi Nah.

Or when it turns out that all your walkie-talkies were made in Israel.

Posted by: What's Left of Hezbollah! at October 06, 2024 01:06 PM (uxCna)

146
Doctors have become much more circumspect with their language and the sharing of personal opinions with patients than they were pre-covid. Governments heavy hand has adulterated all forms of private intercourse.
Posted by: Braenyard at October 06, 2024 01:05 PM (4v7VO)

Not mine. He asked me one time did you get the Coif vax? I said no and I have no intention of ever doing so. He shrugged and moved on. Never asked me again.

Posted by: Settled Science at October 06, 2024 01:07 PM (mqBK+)

147 Looked for synonyms of 'private intercourse' butt dumb DDG could only present forms of penile intercourse. Prefaces such as + preceding the word or putting it in parenthesis having NO effect.

Posted by: Braenyard at October 06, 2024 01:07 PM (4v7VO)

148 Or when it turns out that all your walkie-talkies were made in Israel.

BTW, Hezbollah is no longer going to name a new "leader" - they are going to rely on collective governance instead.

I wonder why.

Posted by: What's Left of Hezbollah! at October 06, 2024 01:07 PM (uxCna)

149 Correction…, Lincoln didn’t want to make a martyr out of Clement Vallandigham so he expelled him from Union territory!

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at October 06, 2024 01:08 PM (/suuz)

150 But they did inform you that Kamala was in NC coordinating Helene relief.

-
The Biden /Harris Helene Relief Program: Let them eat cake.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 01:08 PM (L/fGl)

151 Rather elaborate response to 9-11. Almost like it was sitting on a shelf waiting to be pulled down..
More direct response would have been more effective - lay waste to the apparent sponsor nations, call it done.
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at October 06, 2024 01:01 PM (/lPRQ)

I recall in those early days... how naive we all were... calling for The Big Dog response: Imagine you're a big dog, and all the little dogs come around, and one of the bites you.

How do you respond? Well, one thing you can do if grab the easiest to get hold of dog rip out its throat, and then dare them to come at you again.

You don't have to attack all the other dogs, they'll get the message.

But then, if you're the big dog, and you get paid by the Military Industrial Complex to be perpetually at war with the little dogs, I guess you go in for nation building the little dogs instead.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 01:09 PM (T+YTi)

152 For Gen Z women, the "right" to unrestricted abortion is far more important than any other issue. By far.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 01:04 PM (uxCna)

Which correlates perfectly with the decay of any objective morality being taught in our schools.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 06, 2024 01:09 PM (d9fT1)

153 that was a real question after 9/11
'Who do we bomb?'
Posted by: Dieter Bauhaus

Here's a map of the ME.
Throw a dart... that's who.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at October 06, 2024 01:09 PM (/lPRQ)

154 Gen Z appear to be more disassociated from traditional America than any other group.

Posted by: Braenyard at October 06, 2024 01:09 PM (4v7VO)

155 More direct response would have been more effective - lay waste to the apparent sponsor nations, call it done.

Shrub's idea was to kill the immediate threats, minimize civilians casualties like never seen before, and win over the population with goodies.

It failed. Our enemies just murdered anyone cooperating with the west. Which made the decision the average person in 'Stan/Iraq faced pretty easy. Tell the Americans whatever you need to so you get paid, then work with Jihadis so they won't harm you.

A policy of annihilating towns that supported or enemies with the only aid going directly to groups killing jihadis would have been much more successful. Then the decision comes down to who is a bigger threat, and the answer would have been the west and or clients.

Posted by: 18-1 at October 06, 2024 01:09 PM (oZhjI)

156 Off topic q for vets or mil.
I was thinking about getting in touch with a high school friend not on social media afaict.
I think I found her in a .mil publication - is air force reserve - listed as getting a meritorious service award. I think she's a retired NCO now.
Would there be a way to ask mail to be forwarded to her via the Air Force somehow?

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at October 06, 2024 01:09 PM (gDlxJ)

157 Raised by and taught by zipperheads.

Posted by: Braenyard at October 06, 2024 01:09 PM (4v7VO)

158 Taibbi is one of the last honest leftists in existence.

Posted by: Tom Servo at October 06, 2024 01:10 PM (S6gqv)

159

Yet again, it's the beast Hillary:

‘We Lose Total Control’ If Social Media Companies Don’t ‘Moderate’ Content

Hammer, meet nailhead! Over at the Daily Wire.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at October 06, 2024 01:11 PM (x0n13)

160 The Gen Z males want to own a house someday.

The Gen Z females want someone to give them a house someday.

Posted by: pawn at October 06, 2024 01:11 PM (QB+5g)

161 Or when it turns out that all your walkie-talkies were made in Israel.

-
The (amazing) rest of the story.

https://is.gd/RDAS2A

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 01:11 PM (L/fGl)

162 And now for something completely different. When you think John Deere, you think airplanes.

https://youtu.be/PLsoT_zm-SY
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 12:58 PM (L/fGl)

Flying that and I laugh when he puts the helmet on. Like it will do much good.

Posted by: Diogenes at October 06, 2024 01:11 PM (W/lyH)

163 Correction…, Lincoln didn’t want to make a martyr out of Clement Vallandigham so he expelled him from Union territory!
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at October 06, 2024 01:08 PM (/suuz)

It's also right there in the Constitution, the President can suspend Habeus Corpus during wartime.

Those Copperheads could go south, or go F themselves. Their choice.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 01:12 PM (T+YTi)

164 Who's next?

https://tinyurl.com/yfbw9xnp

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 06, 2024 01:13 PM (xIFh6)

165 That's the problem with rules saying that the government gets a backdoor into communications - then anyone who can plausibly simulate being the government can also use the backdoor.

Was having a discussion with some of my cow-workers when one of them who I suspect is not a leftwinger mentioned some new internet browser that is supposed to not have any backdoors/tracking in it and he gave us a link where it shows its endorsed by Snowden and the EFF.

I committed that even if it worked the western intel agencies have backdoors into every chip in your PC anyway and monitor traffic through all the internet providers.

But my euro cow-workers had a different response "This looks like a Russian plot!" it was almost comical.

Posted by: 18-1 at October 06, 2024 01:13 PM (oZhjI)

166 Shrub's idea was to kill the immediate threats, minimize civilians casualties like never seen before, and win over the population with goodies.

It failed...
Posted by: 18-1 at October 06, 2024 01:09 PM (oZhjI)

Well, it only "failed" if you believe what they said their intent was, was what their intent was.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 01:16 PM (T+YTi)

167 For Gen Z women, the "right" to unrestricted abortion is far more important than any other issue. By far.

I don't think that's quite right. I've engaged in discussion with some of these women and yes they are pro-abortion and hate anyone who isn't but...they hate anyone that opposes the clot shot, or unlimited immigration, or who wants to reduce spending and on and on.

And the oddest thing is they don't have political views in the normal sense - they see their political views as a way to connect with "the good people" and know who to hate. It doesn't matter if the formal leftwing narrative on something changes they would have claimed is a core belief - they will change their beliefs to stay in sync with that narrative

Posted by: 18-1 at October 06, 2024 01:17 PM (oZhjI)

168 Off topic q for vets or mil.
I was thinking about getting in touch with a high school friend not on social media afaict.
I think I found her in a .mil publication - is air force reserve - listed as getting a meritorious service award. I think she's a retired NCO now.
Would there be a way to ask mail to be forwarded to her via the Air Force somehow?

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at October 06, 2024 01:09 PM (gDlxJ)

Further stalk her. Put her name with mylife.com into your favorite search engine, see what comes up as far as rough location and other details. Don't pay for any of the searches offered there.

You may find relatives' names who have a larger SM footprint to be used for contact info.

Put her name and maybe hometown in google search, and choose image search. If you recognize a picture, follow to that website, which may have some contact info or other orgs info with which you might be able to track her down.

I have had good luck with both of these options, except for people who really didn't want to be found or who have common names.

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 06, 2024 01:17 PM (i24o9)

169 I committed that even if it worked the western intel agencies have backdoors into every chip in your PC anyway and monitor traffic through all the internet providers.

But my euro cow-workers had a different response "This looks like a Russian plot!" it was almost comical.
Posted by: 18-1 at October 06, 2024 01:13 PM (oZhjI)

Thought experiment: If your electronics were being spied on by the Russian government or the American government, which would be a greater threat to you, personally?

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 01:18 PM (T+YTi)

170 Like it didn’t happen. But they did inform you that Kamala was in NC coordinating Helene relief…. For the 1000th time, we don’t hate the press enough
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at October 06, 2024 12:59 PM (dTIZ+)

I saw that. She looked to be at an airport with the Dem. Gov. and some National guard.. She read a teleprompter speech and took no questions and left. No comforting the victims because none were where she was.

From which you can conclude they know their pathetic, criminal response to Helene is hurting them bigly, and they're trying to cover it up. It won't work. Appalachia is lost to them.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 06, 2024 01:18 PM (xCA6C)

171 *medal, not award

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at October 06, 2024 01:18 PM (dE3DB)

172 For Gen Z women, the "right" to unrestricted abortion is far more important than any other issue. By far.

Posted by: The ARC of History!

Didja see this?

Singer Stevie Nicks releases 'anthem' to Roe v. Wade, abortion rights: 'Most important thing I ever do'

Lyrics for the song included, "All the rights that you had yesterday are taken away / And now you’re afraid / You should be afraid/ Because everything I fought for long ago in a dream is gone."

https://is.gd/dRPJJh

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 01:18 PM (L/fGl)

173 The Gen Z males want to own a house someday.

The Gen Z females want someone to give them a house someday.

There are endless videos showing this and it is almost comical. Traditional notions of "gender roles" may be dead for younger women - but the guys most of these women want better be pulling in enough money to give them the life they want.

Posted by: 18-1 at October 06, 2024 01:18 PM (oZhjI)

174 OT - Ted Cruz is running a miserable campaign. He could talk about threats to free speech… he could mention Trump and talk about the open border. But the only ads he runs (and not very many) are about how Colin Allred would allow bots to play against girls in sports. It’s a fair topic, but that’s it? That’s all he’s got?? The guy seems politically clueless. I mean why not at the very least hop on Trump’s coattails??

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at October 06, 2024 01:19 PM (ZiaCc)

175 Thought experiment: If your electronics were being spied on by the Russian government or the American government, which would be a greater threat to you, personally?

The answer is obvious. If you have to search something politically dangerous for example you'd be much better off using Yandex then Google...

Posted by: 18-1 at October 06, 2024 01:19 PM (oZhjI)

176 172 Lyrics for the song included, "All the rights that you had yesterday are taken away / And now you’re afraid / You should be afraid/ Because everything I fought for long ago in a dream is gone."

https://is.gd/dRPJJh
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 01:18 PM (L/fGl)

True. Just not the way she imagines!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at October 06, 2024 01:20 PM (x0n13)

177 Within five years of the enactment of the constitution, Washington was riding off with 13,000 men to end the Whiskey Rebellion, which was about… taxes and lack of redress.

“A republic, if you can keep it.”
- Ben Franklin

Posted by: SpeakingOf a
======
Distortion of the facts. Whiskey tax as an excise tax and taxes on imports were explicitly constitutional as written in Art. 1 and the tax law permitting it was passed by representatives elected by Pennsylvanians themselves among others.

The federal government was broke post revolutionary war as were many of the states and someone had to pay for the cost of government.

If it makes you feel better, an excise tax on carriages was also applied. Only the wealthy went through the courts where they ended up losing in Hylton v. US.

You might find it instructive if you read the opinion as to what the actual taxing powers of the US were and are. Justice Paterson was a delegate at the Constitutional Convention and Justice Iredell was at the NC Convention for ratification.

So no, the Whiskey Rebellion was simply over economics--it was convenient to turn their surplus grain in West PA into liquor to be sold in E. Pa.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:20 PM (bt/Nj)

178 Lyrics for the song included, "All the rights that you had yesterday are taken away / And now you’re afraid / You should be afraid/ Because everything I fought for long ago in a dream is gone."
/i]

Funny this sounds like the government mandating the clot shot to me.

Posted by: 18-1 at October 06, 2024 01:20 PM (oZhjI)

179 Would there be a way to ask mail to be forwarded to her via the Air Force somehow?

No.
All theynwould.have is her home.of.record, and if retired, where the retirement check goes and they will not share that. Follow Flounder's advice.

Posted by: Diogenes at October 06, 2024 01:21 PM (W/lyH)

180 I love that a nonprofit,the Haitian Bridge Alliance, tried to get Trump and Vance arrested for the "eating the dogs and cats" comments in Ohio. They filed a criminal complaint requesting charges including induced panic, disrupting public services, and making false alarms. Say it's a felony.

------

Judge YD: "it's not libelous, and nothing was disrupted. Your situation is easily remediable. Return to your cannibal island, and the dogs. Eat the cats. Eat the people who live *there.*

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at October 06, 2024 01:21 PM (awTae)

181 And the oddest thing is they don't have political views in the normal sense - they see their political views as a way to connect with "the good people" and know who to hate. It doesn't matter if the formal leftwing narrative on something changes they would have claimed is a core belief - they will change their beliefs to stay in sync with that narrative
Posted by: 18-1
=======
Politics of religion which end up in disaster. In Soviet Union and Germany under the Not Sees, females were some of the most rigid ideologically. The classic movie, Ninotchka, makes fun of that tendency. Should be required viewing for school kids.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:22 PM (bt/Nj)

182
Judge YD: "it's not libelous, and nothing was disrupted. Your situation is easily remediable. Return to your cannibal island, and the dogs. Eat the cats. Eat the people who live *there.

Well I wouldn't eat a kitty to save my life can someone explain the problem with having a little dog now and then?

Posted by: Barack Obama at October 06, 2024 01:22 PM (oZhjI)

183 Thanks Flounder and Diogenes

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at October 06, 2024 01:23 PM (gDlxJ)

184 I love that a nonprofit,the Haitian Bridge Alliance

And if you dig into their funding you will find most/all of it comes from the US government.

Posted by: 18-1 at October 06, 2024 01:25 PM (oZhjI)

185 Well I wouldn't eat a kitty to save my life can someone explain the problem with having a little dog now and then?

As if we need reminding that you wouldn't eat p***y.

Posted by: Archimedes, crude, but come on, it was RIGHT there at October 06, 2024 01:25 PM (xCA6C)

186 Oh and every time you turn around you see a Colin Allred ad about how Ted Cruz and all republicans want women to die because of course that’s what happens if any restrictions on abortion are passed into law… women just start dropping dead everywhere in that state….

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at October 06, 2024 01:25 PM (ZiaCc)

187 Didja see this?

Singer Stevie Nicks releases 'anthem' to Roe v. Wad...
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 01:18 PM (L/fGl)

Stevie Knockers is to Fleetwood Mac, roughly what Sammy Hagar was to Van Halen.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 01:26 PM (T+YTi)

188 Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 06, 2024 01:18 PM (L/fGl)

Stevie Nicks? Good lord. Go back to your wine, you talentless, barren dick dumpster.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at October 06, 2024 01:26 PM (awTae)

189 “ Truth is nowhere to be found, and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey. The Lord looked and was displeased that there was no justice.”

Isaiah 59:15

Posted by: Marcus T at October 06, 2024 01:26 PM (Lf21T)

190 It's also right there in the Constitution, the President can suspend Habeus Corpus during wartime.

Those Copperheads could go south, or go F themselves. Their choice.
Posted by: BurtTC
======
NO, Lincoln got his hands slapped over suspending habeas corpus via executive fiat in Ex Parte Merryman and lost Ex. Parte Milligan by using military tribunals in areas where the civil courts were in operation. Only congress can suspend habeas corpus in the cases of war and insurrection.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:26 PM (bt/Nj)

191
Colin Allred would allow bots to play against girls in sports.

Texans vs Terminators

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 06, 2024 01:27 PM (63Dwl)

192 Clean up on aisle one eighty three.
The new lace wigs.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle at October 06, 2024 01:27 PM (f6Kjj)

193 Judge YD: "it's not libelous, and nothing was disrupted. Your situation is easily remediable. Return to your cannibal island, and the dogs. Eat the cats. Eat the people who live *there.
----------
Well I wouldn't eat a kitty to save my life can someone explain the problem with having a little dog now and then?
Posted by: Barack Obama at October 06, 2024 01:22 PM (oZhjI)

If I never eat another dog as long as I live.....

Posted by: J Chestnut at October 06, 2024 01:28 PM (T+YTi)

194 NO, Lincoln got his hands slapped over suspending habeas corpus via executive fiat in Ex Parte Merryman and lost Ex. Parte Milligan by using military tribunals in areas where the civil courts were in operation. Only congress can suspend habeas corpus in the cases of war and insurrection.
Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:26 PM (bt/Nj)

Whatever, legal beagles can argue all they want.

The President has war powers, he used them.

Case closed.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 01:29 PM (T+YTi)

195
From which you can conclude they know their pathetic, criminal response to Helene is hurting them bigly, and they're trying to cover it up. It won't work. Appalachia is lost to them.
Posted by: Archimedes
---------------------------

Appalachia has cost them many votes from places other than Appalachia.

Posted by: Braenyard at October 06, 2024 01:29 PM (4v7VO)

196 Nicole Shanahan said, right after she came out for MAHA, people contacted her, asking to have their names removed from her Foundation page. They were afraid of what the Left would do.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at October 06, 2024 01:29 PM (gfViB)

197 I shudder to think how many abortions that professional starfucker had. America was probably missing an entire elementary classroom by '82.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at October 06, 2024 01:30 PM (awTae)

198 Appalachia has cost them many votes from places other than Appalachia.

Posted by: Braenyard

Agreed, which is why I find it so incomprehensible that they thought this was a good idea.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 06, 2024 01:30 PM (xCA6C)

199 Colin Allred would allow bots to play against girls in sports.

Texans vs Terminators
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 06, 2024 01:27 PM (63Dwl)

LoL… unfortunate fat finger on my part….

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at October 06, 2024 01:30 PM (ZiaCc)

200 So...Helene has hammered parts of Florida, S. Carolina, Georgia, Virginia and as we all know, N. Carolina. Now Tropical Storm Milton is churning in the Gulf and looks to be heading to Florida. So if the storms effectively remove major portions of these states from the election (perhaps 10-12 million voters scattered over the various districts) is the election valid?

Posted by: Diogenes at October 06, 2024 01:31 PM (W/lyH)

201 I'm sort of surprised that Stevie Nicks is still alive. Well sort of. She's had "a hard life." Self inflicted.

I know Christine McVie croaked earlier...

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 06, 2024 01:31 PM (Q4IgG)

202

Hot Rutabegas are waiting for you!

Tuber.eu

Posted by: Rutabega Fucker at October 06, 2024 01:32 PM (D36qz)

203 Large celebrations of rape and murder in Sydney yesterday. Police warned the animals displaying the Hezbollah flag or images of their leaders were illegal, yet only one arrest was made when a man displayed an Israeli flag with a swastika.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at October 06, 2024 01:32 PM (zG664)

204 I bet her womb has Bondo in it.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at October 06, 2024 01:32 PM (awTae)

205 Lincoln believed the preeminent founding document was the Declaration. That was for numerous reasons not the least of which was that as the Constitution existed in his time, it gave some license to slavery and other activities the confederacy was using the undermine the Federal government.

Posted by: Marcus T at October 06, 2024 01:32 PM (Lf21T)

206 Lincoln, during the Civil War, purposefully violated the Constitution. His reasoning when asked is that the South was violating the very basis of the Constitutional Union so he was not going to be bound by particular clauses.

Lincoln did somethings that actually prevented Jefferson Davis from being tried for treason in court. Without Congress, Lincoln raised an army (in violation of Congressional control of such), he issued a blockade on Southern ports (also not permissible unless you treat the South as a sovereign nation), seized foreign ships going to and from that area (nearly got Britain and France in on the side of the South), suspended habeas corpus and arrested people, used military tribunals in areas in the North that were not under threat of invasion or conflict, spent money without appropriation from Congress to arm up, etc.

Congress later substantiated most of these when it eventually went into session passing laws but the fact is that Lincoln's actions at the time were not constitutional because there is no emergency clause justifying what he did. The idea is that a president can call Congress into session to justify what is needed, not to do it himself.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:34 PM (bt/Nj)

207 Free speech? Try extolling the beneficence of maple syrup on French Toast before comment #100 on the Food Thread.

Posted by: J. Random Moron at October 06, 2024 01:34 PM (elO/o)

208 Frederic Douglass did not think much of Lincoln and thought of him as a politician bound by expediency.

Posted by: EdmundBurkesShade at October 06, 2024 01:34 PM (WvGHv)

209 So...Helene has hammered parts of Florida, S. Carolina, Georgia, Virginia and as we all know, N. Carolina. Now Tropical Storm Milton is churning in the Gulf and looks to be heading to Florida. So if the storms effectively remove major portions of these states from the election (perhaps 10-12 million voters scattered over the various districts) is the election valid?

We extended voting for months and allowed completely fraudulent voting because of Covid, so I don't see how they can argue against people who can't get out of their homes to vote.

Of course, that assumes they're interested in consistency and fairness, which, Hah!

Posted by: Archimedes at October 06, 2024 01:34 PM (xCA6C)

210 I'm sort of surprised that Stevie Nicks is still alive. Well sort of. She's had "a hard life." Self inflicted.

I know Christine McVie croaked earlier...
Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 06, 2024 01:31 PM (Q4IgG)

Fleetwood Mac… Bruce Springsteen…. Just two examples among many where I’ve decided I’ll separate the art from the artist. FM and Springsteen I really like their music; good stuff… brings back good memories of HS and college. I can listen to both and enjoy without sending any money in their direction so I will… I just try to forget they’re miserable human beings… but their music was positive in my life so I’m not gonna hurt myself by depriving myself

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at October 06, 2024 01:35 PM (i5Vkf)

211 200 So...Helene has hammered parts of Florida, S. Carolina, Georgia, Virginia and as we all know, N. Carolina. Now Tropical Storm Milton is churning in the Gulf and looks to be heading to Florida. So if the storms effectively remove major portions of these states from the election (perhaps 10-12 million voters scattered over the various districts) is the election valid?
Posted by: Diogenes at October 06, 2024 01:31 PM (W/lyH)

I'm wondering that too...

Posted by: It's me donna at October 06, 2024 01:35 PM (IyPmt)

212 196 Nicole Shanahan
---------------------------

Be still my bleating heart.

Posted by: Braenyard at October 06, 2024 01:36 PM (4v7VO)

213 Unsurprised. It’s frightening how many of our fellow citizens feel that this is acceptable. As Reagan said, “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction”.

At the time, I thought it was hyperbole.

Posted by: Unkaren at October 06, 2024 01:36 PM (aOnRw)

214 Will Milton be a Monster?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 06, 2024 01:37 PM (63Dwl)

215 Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:34 PM (bt/Nj)

You said it better than I could, whig. Lincoln did great things but with sometimes questionable “ends justify the means” methods. He did what had to be done I suppose one could argue, but established dangerous precedents.. .

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at October 06, 2024 01:39 PM (i5Vkf)

216 The judge threw it out as a political stunt close to an election, and was basically like "I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul." Bless them!

The judge should have had the bailiffs arrest the complainants for failing to register under FARA.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 06, 2024 01:39 PM (IG4Id)

217 205 Lincoln believed the preeminent founding document was the Declaration.
Posted by: Marcus T
=======
Which is explicitly unreasonable and he in fact knew better than that. Strictly speaking, the Declaration was extralegal just as the South's secession was.

That turned it into might makes right justification. Lincoln used the Declaration as an excuse because specifically Scotus misused it in Taney's opinion to justify slavery.

What Lincoln believed is once you were in the Union, you were bound forevermore to it and if the Constitution did not speak on the issue other than the preamble, he could.

In the South, the belief was the classic social contract theory--if the people of a state ratified joining the union via a state convention, then they could leave by the same way.

Arguably, because the Constitution itself is silent on the matter, either position can be argued but agreement with either of them as a legal matter is more a matter of taste, not of legal authority. Lincoln won via naked force, not reasoning his opponents over. That should be remembered.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:39 PM (bt/Nj)

218 The catalyst for Lincoln’s action was a hot war being fought by an organized force against the republic. That would be as opposed to alleged threats, political calculations and the various insidious, demonstrably mendacious bogeymen of contemporary Democrats, that is, the New Confederacy.

Posted by: Marcus T at October 06, 2024 01:40 PM (Lf21T)

219 By any means necessary isn’t just a slogan to the left. They mean it.

If that means killing thousands of voters off post hurricane, so be it.

Posted by: Settled Science at October 06, 2024 01:41 PM (mqBK+)

220 You said it better than I could, whig. Lincoln did great things but with sometimes questionable “ends justify the means” methods. He did what had to be done I suppose one could argue, but established dangerous precedents.. .
Posted by: LinusVanPelt
=====
I am sympathetic to Lincoln's predicament and not very sympathetic to the fire eaters in the South forcing the crisis to the front. That being said, Lincoln's justifications were subsequently used in presidential overstretch during wars such as Wilson, FDR, Truman, and later presidents as justification. Lincoln as an excellent lawyer knew damn well what he was doing when he did it. He did not purposefully call Congress into session for months after his inauguration specifically to have a free hand. Taney finessed the Prize Cases to support Lincoln's seizure of shipping to claiming a de facto war existed justifying it but he avoided whether it was in fact a legal war when Lincoln did it.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:43 PM (bt/Nj)

221 Of course Stevie Nicks would do that. She aborted a child she wanted "for her career"

Posted by: Notsothoreau at October 06, 2024 01:44 PM (gfViB)

222 215 Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:34 PM (bt/Nj)

You said it better than I could, whig. Lincoln did great things but with sometimes questionable “ends justify the means” methods. He did what had to be done I suppose one could argue, but established dangerous precedents.. .
Posted by: LinusVanPelt
-----------------------------------------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pZG7snE7tU

Posted by: Braenyard at October 06, 2024 01:44 PM (ZACBQ)

223 Of course Stevie Nicks would do that. She aborted a child she wanted "for her career"
Posted by: Notsothoreau at October 06, 2024 01:44 PM (gfViB)

One, that she admits to. I bet it was a couple dozen. She saw more dick than an airport urinal.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at October 06, 2024 01:45 PM (awTae)

224 The catalyst for Lincoln’s action was a hot war being fought by an organized force against the republic. That would be as opposed to alleged threats, political calculations and the various insidious, demonstrably mendacious bogeymen of contemporary Democrats, that is, the New Confederacy.
Posted by: Marcus T at October 06, 2024 01:40 PM (Lf21T)

No way, man. What Lincoln did is basically the same as throwing Proud Boys and grannies into prison for decades.

Why Tina Peters is going to prison for 9 years, because of what Lincoln did. Lincoln practically shot Ashli Babbitt himself.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 01:45 PM (T+YTi)

225 “ Which is explicitly unreasonable and he in fact knew better than that. Strictly speaking, the Declaration was extralegal just as the South's secession was.”

I would argue quit differently. The Declaration was a basis for our republic. It was only extra legal in the sense that it declared a break from Great Britain and explicated the reasoning, then built a basis for our republic. I would further argue that anything within the Constitution inconsistent with the spirit of our Declaration would be, more so, “extra-legal” because it is inconsistent and contrary to our democratic republics establishment. That is not only my opinion, but you will see that in some of the Framers and Founders reasoning. They really only got the original Constitution over the finish line by promising The Bill of Rights would be passed, and even then, some, felt it was not enough.

Posted by: Marcus T at October 06, 2024 01:46 PM (Lf21T)

226 Meanwhile our glorious Vice President has claimed that the people of Lebanon are suffering greatly and are in dire need of.our assistance.
Ummm...
No they are not and no they don't.
Hezbollah may be suffering, and members of Iran's Al Quds as well, but the people.of Lebanon are doing just fine. In fact , many are very happy with what is happening.

Posted by: Diogenes at October 06, 2024 01:46 PM (W/lyH)

227 218 The catalyst for Lincoln’s action was a hot war being fought by an organized force against the republic. That would be as opposed to alleged threats, political calculations and the various insidious, demonstrably mendacious bogeymen of contemporary Democrats, that is, the New Confederacy.
Posted by: Marcus T

There are enough grievances that the South and North had but it is ridiculous to argue as a legal matter that might makes right. Lincoln could have easily declared war on the South or had Congress declare the South in insurgency. He did neither when it was clearly within his power to do so. Harry Truman got his ass slapped by Scotus for his steel mill seizure which was just the sort of justification that Lincoln used. Extra legal mumbo jumbo via Article II and Emergency. Lincoln could have done it the right way--he did not. That is not to his credit as president.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:47 PM (bt/Nj)

228 Lincoln had to destroy the Republic to save the Republic. Smart man.
- Dubya

Posted by: Settled Science at October 06, 2024 01:47 PM (mqBK+)

229 NO, Lincoln got his hands slapped over suspending habeas corpus via executive fiat in Ex Parte Merryman and lost Ex. Parte Milligan by using military tribunals in areas where the civil courts were in operation. Only congress can suspend habeas corpus in the cases of war and insurrection.
Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:26 PM (bt/Nj)

Chief Justice Taney issued his opinion as the circuit court judge for Maryland. It was NOT a US Supreme Court opinion. Taney's writ was ignored. Congress dithered for two years on the matter until the Habeus Corpus Act was enacted in 1863 and Lincoln signed it.

Habeus Corpus was also suspended in the Confederacy.

Posted by: John Adams at October 06, 2024 01:47 PM (rj6Yv)

230 Every time the voting question comes up, people in Appalachian say folks will crawl over broken glass to vote for Trump. I think there are people working out how to make it happen.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at October 06, 2024 01:48 PM (gfViB)

231 public polls now vs this time in 2016 and 2020 are night and day better for Trump.

That being said, I think the amount of "hidden Trump vote" might be less than what we saw in the previous two elections. I think more people are willing to say they're voting for him than we saw in 16 and 20.

So while a supposed "tie" in Georgia probably means Trump is up, it doesn't mean he's up big. It just means he's up a little.

I suspect Trump will be up in all seven battlegrounds on Election night. Whether or not he's up enough to mitigate the steal is unknown.

Posted by: Shenanigans at October 06, 2024 01:48 PM (wGun1)

232 I will exercise my right to free speech at any time I feel the necessity and completely disregard any who feel I should abrogate that right. Do NOT care who objects.

I'll say what I feel appropriate and God help anyone who attempts to silence me.

Posted by: IRONGRAMPA at October 06, 2024 01:49 PM (hKoQL)

233 The Old Capitol Building in DC was the premier lodging house for all sorts of spies and traitors. Not a pleasant place to be from all accounts.

Posted by: mrp at October 06, 2024 01:49 PM (rj6Yv)

234
Chief Justice Rehnquist wrote a good book about Lincoln's dictatorship regarding habeus corpus.

"All The Laws But One," I think it's titled.

Posted by: Soothsayer at October 06, 2024 01:49 PM (aBbkg)

235 “ Why Tina Peters is going to prison for 9 years, because of what Lincoln did. Lincoln practically shot Ashli Babbitt himself.
Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 01:45 PM (T+YTi)”

You are probably being facetious, but I will say that many people are very concerned about the weaponization of our legal and justice system by Democrats. Beneath their everyday concern about the economy and invasion, it’s very disconcerting to many, especially those who realize it could be turned against them when someone else is in power. It is in fact, a basis for some of the Democrats against Trump because they fear retribution, which is in most realistic cases simply a return to the status quo.

Posted by: Marcus T at October 06, 2024 01:49 PM (Lf21T)

236 The election is a month away. There is plenty of time to establish available locations for everyone to vote. Local politicos should be working on that right now. Just keep an eye on those willful Democrats.

Posted by: Braenyard at October 06, 2024 01:50 PM (ZACBQ)

237 Not a very good argument, though.

I think a better argument could be made that it started with the assassination of Lincoln by Democrats.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at October 06, 2024 01:50 PM (PmqP5)

238 I would argue quit differently. The Declaration was a basis for our republic. It was only extra legal in the sense that it declared a break from Great Britain and explicated the reasoning, then built a basis for our republic. I would further argue that anything within the Constitution inconsistent with the spirit of our Declaration would be, more so, “extra-legal” because it is inconsistent and contrary to our democratic republics establishment. That is not only my opinion, but you will see that in some of the Framers and Founders reasoning. They really only got the original Constitution over the finish line by promising The Bill of Rights would be passed, and even then, some, felt it was not enough.
Posted by: Marcus T
=====
You can argue that, that was not the position of even a majority of the Framers. Most of them agreed that a Bill of Rights was dangerous at the Convention. It was only at the Massachusetts Convention to Ratify that the Federalists made a concession.

The same social contract theory was used to justify the Revolution and like it or not the South used the same reasoning to leave the Union and by the same process that the Constitution itself was ratified.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:50 PM (bt/Nj)

239 Stevie Nicks is the classic Boomer cat/wine box hag. Was married less than a year.

Posted by: Field Marshal Zhukov at October 06, 2024 01:50 PM (wBaIH)

240 One of the surgeons I support tried to get into it with me over the "eating the cats and dogs" thing.

Tried to get me to say Trump and Vance were knowingly lying and misleading people and how it was very concerning. "Aren't you concerned they are LYING???"

"Nope. I think it's funny."

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 06, 2024 01:50 PM (wlyRx)

241 The thing to watch is overseas voting. You can request an overseas ballot without proof of citizenship or residency.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at October 06, 2024 01:51 PM (gfViB)

242 Milton is now a hurricane per NHC. Winds @ 80 mph.

Posted by: one hour sober at October 06, 2024 01:51 PM (Y1sOo)

243 And the endless wars, don’t forget those. And the chocolate!

Posted by: Eromero at October 06, 2024 01:53 PM (FuCE/)

244 Milton is now a hurricane per NHC. Winds @ 80 mph.

Crap. I still haven’t found my stapler.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at October 06, 2024 01:53 PM (PmqP5)

245 Marcus,
You can not reason backwards from Lincoln was justified because slavery that Southern states could not secede. The Constitution itself is silent and the Declaration has less to do with Union (explicit if you actually read the debates) and more to do with leaving the sovereign states free from being run by Britain as colonies.

NE states damn near seceded from the Union during the Hartford Convention as they blamed warhawks in the South for the disastrous War of 1812. Their timing sucked and they slunk away but their reasoning was remarkably similar to that used later by the South. Except their issue was an unpopular war in their states and the resulting horrendous effects on NE shipping and export industry.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:54 PM (bt/Nj)

246 Absent Elon Musk, free speech would have already disappeared.

In space no one can hear you scream.
On mars you'll need hearing aids in your suit.

Posted by: DaveA at October 06, 2024 01:54 PM (FhXTo)

247 She saw more dick than an airport urinal.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice

That's a lot of dick!

Posted by: LA Fluffer at October 06, 2024 01:54 PM (D36qz)

248

Liberal author Fran Lebowitz called on President Biden to "dissolve" the Supreme Court during a discussion with "Real Time" host Bill Maher.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 06, 2024 01:55 PM (63Dwl)

249 There have been some retrospective fiscal analyses regarding the Civil War. Apparently the dollar cost of the war (not to mention murder and mayhem) was more that seven times the amount it would have cost to purchase all of the slaves outright. Apparently Lincoln considered this option briefly but did not pursue.

Posted by: EdmundBurkesShade at October 06, 2024 01:55 PM (WvGHv)

250 Posted by: Diogenes at October 06, 2024 01:46 PM (W/lyH)
-

To be honest, plenty of Lebanese citizens who have no skin in the Hizballah game are suffering.

The point is, Lebanon as a country brought this upon itself. Lebanon deserves nothing unless they commit to a complete unconditional surrender.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 06, 2024 01:55 PM (xIFh6)

251 You are probably being facetious, but I will say that many people are very concerned about the weaponization of our legal and justice system by Democrats. Beneath their everyday concern about the economy and invasion, it’s very disconcerting to many, especially those who realize it could be turned against them when someone else is in power. It is in fact, a basis for some of the Democrats against Trump because they fear retribution, which is in most realistic cases simply a return to the status quo.
Posted by: Marcus T at October 06, 2024 01:49 PM (Lf21T)

Probably.

Those who aren't familiar, Tina was a small potatoes politician in Western Colorado, and she was in charge of election integrity. She noticed shenanigans with ballot boxes and other things leading up to the 2020 election, and tried to take action (in her role) to prevent fraud.

But she was sloppy about it, and Denver threw the book at her for "interfering" with the election.

They just sentenced her this past week. Nine years. For doing substantially less than what Katie Hobbs and Maricopa County did in Arizona, to give Abortion Katie the Governor's mansion, and before that, giving Biden the state.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 06, 2024 01:56 PM (I8/ZC)

252 I would think NC residents who are "motivated" to vote... will vote. Democrat or Republican. If they're enthusiastic about the election, they'll find a way to vote.

I can see authorities making sure one group gets transportation while the other doesn't.

I expect plenty of dicking around in the storm affected areas by the left.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 06, 2024 01:57 PM (Q4IgG)

253 “ You can argue that, that was not the position of even a majority of the Framers. Most of them agreed that a Bill of Rights was dangerous at the Convention. It was only at the Massachusetts Convention to Ratify that the Federalists made a concession.

The same social contract theory was used to justify the Revolution and like it or not the South used the same reasoning to leave the Union and by the same process that the Constitution itself was ratified.
Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:50 PM (bt/Nj)”

They conceded because they knew the Constitution would never be ratified without The Bill
Of Rights as a minimum. Now some interestingly believed The Bill of Rights was limiting and unnecessary as a practical matter. But thank God at a minimum they included it. States such as NY, believe it or not, would not vote to ratify without The Bill of Rights and in particular The Second Amendment.

Posted by: Marcus T at October 06, 2024 01:57 PM (Lf21T)

254 xcept their issue was an unpopular war in their states and the resulting horrendous effects on NE shipping and export industry.
Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:54 PM (bt/Nj)

And NE farmers. Agents for the British Government were paying were paying with hard currency for beef and foodstuffs grown by NE and Upstate NY farmers.

Posted by: mrp at October 06, 2024 01:58 PM (rj6Yv)

255 242 Milton is now a hurricane per NHC. Winds @ 80 mph.
Posted by: one hour sober at October 06, 2024 01:51 PM (Y1sOo)
The gorebell wormening godmotha gheyah done sendin’ another hurricane.

Posted by: Eromero at October 06, 2024 01:58 PM (FuCE/)

256
Fran Liebowitz?

The broad from Animal House??

Posted by: Soothsayer at October 06, 2024 01:58 PM (aBbkg)

257 Halfwit "protester" attempts to self-immolate outside WH, does predictably half-assed job:

https://tinyurl.com/4t9pz595

Posted by: Archimedes at October 06, 2024 01:59 PM (xCA6C)

258 #254

The editor responsible for that comment has been severely severely chastised.

Posted by: mrp at October 06, 2024 02:00 PM (rj6Yv)

259 >>>The broad from Animal House??

That was Fawn. She was delicious.

Posted by: the kiln of death at October 06, 2024 02:01 PM (Y1sOo)

260 1st WORLD PROBLEM NOOD

Posted by: Skip at October 06, 2024 02:01 PM (fwDg9)

261 I am just befuddled that this election will be close. A totally unimpressive nonentity like Kamala Harris who can hardly speak without giggling, got zero votes in primaries and won’t answer questions from the press is running neck and neck with a former president who had a successful term, has numerous specific serious policy proposals and is always available to the press.

The fact that it will be close one way or the other means we already have an unserious decadent populace that is undeserving of self government. We may avoid disaster this time if Trump ekes it out but sad to say it’ll only be a delaying action. We’re inevitably gonna be living an Orwell novel…. If not in my lifetime, my grandkids….

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at October 06, 2024 02:02 PM (HSqCq)

262 The broad from Animal House??

That was her aunt, Fawn Leibowitz.

I’m assuming this Fran is not the Nanny actress? She was (is?) genuinely funny.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at October 06, 2024 02:02 PM (PmqP5)

263 Two % of the Southern population were slave owners. The majority of the Southern population voted to secede. There was overwhelming antipathy toward the North and it wasn't because of their attitude toward slavery.

Posted by: Braenyard at October 06, 2024 02:03 PM (ZACBQ)

264 Chief Justice Taney issued his opinion as the circuit court judge for Maryland. It was NOT a US Supreme Court opinion. Taney's writ was ignored. Congress dithered for two years on the matter until the Habeus Corpus Act was enacted in 1863 and Lincoln signed it.

Habeus Corpus was also suspended in the Confederacy.
Posted by: John Adams

I am very aware of that but nevertheless, Taney delivered the writ to the prison commandant himself and that general told Taney more or less that he would only take orders to release Merryman from Lincoln. As a Judge in the case, Taney could do little more because he could not appeal the case himself as a judge. Merryman apparently did not but Lincoln's actions were judged illegal.

Lincoln was no more justified by law doing what he did than King Charles was that provoked the English Civil War in part.

Defend him if you will but Merryman is binding law, not Lincoln's suspension via fiat.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 02:04 PM (bt/Nj)

265 I'm just wondering what bullshit excuse will be used to "halt" the counting of the votes in ONLY swing states. When Detroit started boarding up the windows was when the second revolution should have started

That can never ever happen again

Posted by: melodicmetal1 at October 06, 2024 02:06 PM (XLfSN)

266 Distortion of the facts. Whiskey tax as an excise tax and taxes on imports were explicitly constitutional as written in Art. 1 and the tax law permitting it was passed by representatives elected by Pennsylvanians themselves among others.

They were importing whiskey from Pennsylvania into Pennsylvania?

If the people who were exporting the whiskey weren't Pennsylvanians then who was representing them?

It was a tax, constitutional or not, that the people did not want. They protested, vigorously you might say, over it.

So no, the Whiskey Rebellion was simply over economics--it was convenient to turn their surplus grain in West PA into liquor to be sold in E. Pa.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:20 PM

Of course it was over economics. Everything is over economics.

My point was that from the very beginning our politicians, bureaucrats, judges and lawyers have found every avenue they can think of to degrade & distort our constitution over time. All in order to solve multitudes of political problems that they, themselves, have created.

The current attack on free speech is no different from every other battle against the "supreme law" of the land.

Posted by: SpeakingOf at October 06, 2024 02:07 PM (6ydKt)

267 They conceded because they knew the Constitution would never be ratified without The Bill
Of Rights as a minimum. Now some interestingly believed The Bill of Rights was limiting and unnecessary as a practical matter. But thank God at a minimum they included it. States such as NY, believe it or not, would not vote to ratify without The Bill of Rights and in particular The Second Amendment.
Posted by: Marcus T
==========
You are being vague on purpose. The Bill of Rights was promised as a political tactic to get ratification in Mass. To that end, Federalists then adopted the tactic in VA and later NY. But, arguing whether or not the Framers/Founders wanted this outcome as you did at first is simply not tenable as an argument.

One of the criticisms of originalism, especially intent, is the simple impossibility to know what a majority of Founders (and even the definition of such if you expand beyond Convention attendees) thought on an issue. Let alone what they agreed upon.

That is why Scalia felt textualism was superior in application. The text is the only thing voted upon and superior to intentionalism because of common understanding of the text at the time.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 02:11 PM (bt/Nj)

268 Taney is the 1860 equivalent of the Hawaiian judge. He literally just made up inexcusably bad rulings to match what he thought was needed by the beltway class of the time. His ahistorical argument in Dred Scott that no black could ever be a citizen of the United States was pure Hawaiian judge and a major reason we had a war to begin with.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at October 06, 2024 02:12 PM (PmqP5)

269 My point was that from the very beginning our politicians, bureaucrats, judges and lawyers have found every avenue they can think of to degrade & distort our constitution over time. All in order to solve multitudes of political problems that they, themselves, have created.

Posted by: SpeakingOf
=====
You were using the claims of redress (which was actually representation) and taxation. E.g. No taxation without representation. Well, the PA guys had representation at the state and federal government via elections and those representatives voted for the tax. Taxation inevitably is 'unfair' but the taxes involved in the Whiskey Rebellion were patently constitutional to levy. That they had unpleasant consequences for distillers in Western PA is undoubtable, but those trying to get federal revenuers via threatened lynching, mob action, and tar and feathering them were criminal actions.

The distillers and their friends initiated it just as Daniel Shays had a similar rebellion over tax delinquency over farms in Western MA. But, a rebellion itself means that a response will be coercive violence by government.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 02:17 PM (bt/Nj)

270 Under pressure to mobilise 200,000 extra soldiers, Ukraine army recruiters are resorting to checkpoints, bundling men off the street and ignoring exemptions

Ukraine is simply running out of men.

https://tinyurl.com/mr36nhpy
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 06, 2024 12:36 PM (uxCna)
==
Was always going to be a problem. Russia, despite their own population issues have more men.

Posted by: Black JEM at October 06, 2024 02:20 PM (9j0Kf)

271 268 Taney is the 1860 equivalent of the Hawaiian judge. He literally just made up inexcusably bad rulings to match what he thought was needed by the beltway class of the time. His ahistorical argument in Dred Scott that no black could ever be a citizen of the United States was pure Hawaiian judge and a major reason we had a war to begin with.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair
==========
Yes, it is the result of reasoning backward from the premise that had to be defended--slavery. Taney thought he and the court could resolve by legal means, an insoluble gordian knot between different states. His solution was slavery could spread everywhere as property. But, his blame can also be extended to the other 6 justices that sided with him over the two dissenters in the case.

Otherwise, Taney actually has been rated by legal historians to have a decent record on the court prior to Dred Scott and he remained loyal to the US during the Civil War.

Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 02:33 PM (bt/Nj)

272 What an awesome thread discussion on Lincoln and the Civil War.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at October 06, 2024 03:08 PM (juZvQ)

273 Where is Antifa? The vanguard of the revolution can only tear down, they are not capable of doing anything productive. Where are the faculties of the radical universities?These groups can only destroy and tear down things. To build and help others is a foreign concept to them.

Posted by: Ron at October 06, 2024 03:13 PM (KDtr3)

274 I absolutely agree that the problem took off under Lincoln, though the seeds were planted as early as John Adams.

Slavery was always the poisoned pill that had been swallowed even before our country actually came into being.

I think of the Southern rebellion during the Civil War as a righteous cause in the service of an indefensible practice. I am well aware that there were other factors involved, but slavery was, for both sides, the absolute driving issue.

Posted by: Nazdrakke at October 06, 2024 03:28 PM (YsggA)

275 @ 273 Where is Antifa? The vanguard of the revolution can only tear down, they are not capable of doing anything productive.
_________________________

So ... were the VietCong the 'vanguard of the revolution' in VN, or just so much cannon fodder to be disposed of afterward? I seem to recall the NVA existing intact after the war, the VC ... not so much. Historians, please correct my lack of insight as to how the VC were 'assimilated' ...

Posted by: Dr_No at October 06, 2024 03:48 PM (ayRl+)

276 We need to take off our oh-so-polite gloves. Speak to the censors as if they are the scum of the earth, because that is exactly who they are.

Said by the guy that censors - every day - as a hobby. Really ?

Posted by: The Irony at October 06, 2024 04:15 PM (R7F1P)

277 The same social contract theory was used to justify the Revolution and like it or not the South used the same reasoning to leave the Union and by the same process that the Constitution itself was ratified.
Posted by: whig at October 06, 2024 01:50 PM (bt/Nj)
==
I think you are kind of wrong here, which surprises me somewhat as I rarely find much to argue about.

Yes, the South wrapped themselves in much of the constructs of the revolution. With a few specific interesting exceptions. They talked about state's rights, but didn't like when those rights went against them. They used the politics of votes to expand slavery, while not expecting the political response it might create. They couldn't even decide how best to even organize against Lincoln's candidacy - by rebelling against Douglas who was a state right's advocate because he wasn't pro-slavery enough. So they weren't quite as pure as you might think. They wrapped around state's rights but no one bought it. Ran Breckinridge securing the election for Lincoln.
Kept the war going wrapping on state's rights when if they would have given up on slavery's expansion it could have ended.

Posted by: Black JEM at October 06, 2024 04:16 PM (9j0Kf)

278 The civil war was in essence an economic rebellion by the monied class of the South - who had some legit grievances on tariff policy. That they chose to use slavery as their economic wedge to make a state's rights argument was disingenuous. Lincoln was going to do anything to save the union. The south hoped Lincoln could be beat in 64. And of course the whole Copperhead movement was essentially a southern inspired (and some argued, and still do, financed) operation.

I do think had Lincoln not been assassinated by Southern sympathizers, the post civil war governmental behavior would have been very different. And that probably would have changed the leviathan we know today. It certainly would have undercut a fair amount of Wilson's behavior. But then of course - Wilson may not even have been president. Ah the course of history.

Posted by: Black JEM at October 06, 2024 04:32 PM (9j0Kf)

279 I wish to enjoin the freedom to lift my kilt, slap my bare ass, and wag my testicles at my adversaries before we engage in freedom fighting.

Bring it, you fucking bitches!

Posted by: Dr. Bone at October 06, 2024 05:21 PM (E8ytb)

280 To my southern friends who say, "there is an argument to be made that our loss of freedoms began with Abraham Lincoln..."

I remind them that for all their love of "state's rights," they loved slavery more. They could have ended the Civil War at any moment and immediately, if they had voluntarily given up slavery.

Kind of destroys their moral pontificating, imo.

Posted by: bradc at October 06, 2024 06:51 PM (vTHwE)

281 >Four hundred years ago it was witches, then it was [...] comic books, [...] communists, and now, information

Look, to be fair they were 100% correct about the comic books and the Communists.

Posted by: Daniel Ream at October 07, 2024 07:10 AM (FMBjj)

282 The use of AI is another nail in the free speech coffin. It spews out the same beige answers foe everyone. It thinks and speaks for the generation that prides itself on its uniqueness.

Posted by: Victoria at October 07, 2024 05:41 PM (zFYW1)

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