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Saturday Evening Movie Thread 09/07/2024 [TheJamesMadison]

Orson Welles


As a fan of the cinematic work of Orson Welles, I find myself in a certain precarious spot. There's been a brewing backlash against Welles, mostly centered around his most famous film, Citizen Kane, for more than fifty years. In 1962, it was the first time that the BFI Sight & Sound poll had listed Welles' freshman effort as the greatest film ever made. It held that distinction every decade through 2002 until the poll in 2012 when it was supplanted by Alfred Hitchcock's Vertigo. For fifty years, the BFI, critics, and Welles' biggest, most vocal fans like Peter Bogdanovich heralded Citizen Kane as the accomplishment in cinema. Heck, here's William Friedkin talking about how his only film school was sitting in a theater and watching the film 8 times through in one sitting.

That's a set up for expectations gamery and overall backlash against critics.

Welles' biggest enemy has turned out to be his biggest fans. They have propped him up to such a degree that no film could ever match the expectations set before it. The general resistance to critical opinion that has developed slowly but steadily for the past several decades (just ask horror fans how critics have treated their favorite genre since the 70s), and you've got a recipe for, "The critics like it? Well, then I hate it."

And I think that's deeply unfair to Welles and his work. I come into this discussion and run through his films already a fan, having seen everything at least once before, and I know that I'm going to be hitting this resistance. So, in order to try and bridge the divide, I have to think about how I'm going to talk about Welles and his work, and I have come to this conclusion: I must resist hyperbole. I cannot speak in language that waxes poetic about how great and beautiful everything is. That will be designed to turn off people who are predisposed to resisting him just based on the metatextual fog that has surrounded him.

And I do that for one reason: I think Welles' movies are fun. They aren't art house cinema. They're not Tarkovsky or Bresson. They're closer to Hitchcock than anything else in more ways than one. It's just that Hitchcock understood mass appeal a whole lot better than Welles did.

Three Elements


Having gone through everything again, I came away from Welles work with three main elements that made him entertaining to watch. The first is his visual sense, the second is his strong command of story, and the third is his overall playfulness.

The Visual


This is where discussions by his fans tend to reside, the technical. Roger Ebert's very good audio commentary on the Citizen Kane home video release is almost all about how the tricks were done, how they were unique for the time, and why that's important. I mean, that's great and all, but if someone is watching these things and doesn't care about any of that, what does that matter? Well, I'm of the opinion that a film's visuals are and important part to the package, and a beautiful looking film is nothing to sneeze at.

And all of Welles' films are simply very good from a visual perspective. I'll bypass the examples from Kane and focus on later films. His main mode of using the camera was the long-take. He was very proud of one in particular from Macbeth that lasts almost an entire reel (more than ten minutes). What's interesting about it is twofold. Firstly, the only film that Welles storyboarded, preplanned visually, was Kane, something he had to do in order to get the studio to sign off on his unprecedented creative freedom (that they later regretted because of the feud with William Randolph Hearst). On every other film, he'd light the set, and then he'd figure out where to place his actors. When you imagine a more than ten minute long shot in a Shakespeare adaptation, the immediate thought to come to mind would be something static as people strut and fret from one side of the stage to the next, especially in the days before the invention of the Steadicam. Dollys were heavy, loud, and difficult to use, and Welles glides his camera back and forth on one for more than ten minutes, each stop of the camera putting his actors in new compositions with their surroundings, the exterior set of Dunsinane Castle.

His own personal favorite of all his efforts at long takes was in The Magnificent Ambersons, his second film, but it's hard to see that now since the studio cut up the film. There are these long takes with those roving cameras on dollies, and it's all done in this ornate house set with everyone dressed in these heavy, period clothes. His heart was in bringing the theater to the screen any way he could, and what was amazing was how cinematic he made it all.

Story


When Welles was working on Man in the Shadow as an actor, he was impressed with the writing by Albert Zugsmith, telling him that he wanted to direct one of his scripts. When Zugsmith showed him a pile, Welles asked for the worst one and two weeks to rewrite it himself, leading to the writer handing over his script of the adaptation of Whit Masterson's book, Badge of Evil. This, of course, became Touch of Evil, widely considered one of Welles' best films. He took a bad script from a moderately successful novel and turned it into this seedy noir thriller that failed to make any money but has stood the test of time as one of his most beloved films.

Why is that? How is that? I was reading the essay about Macbeth in the Olive release, and the author, Jonathan Rosenbaum, made a good observation that Welles was a certain combination of low-brow and high-brow, a combination that clashed with the more strictly middle-brow tastes of the era. His essay was, obviously, focusing on the Shakespeare adaptation, namely the high-brow source of Shakespeare (while noting it's previously low-brow status) against the rugged, primal setting that Welles had put it in. Touch of Evil is, I think, a prime example of that. His style is both deeply established in cinematic tradition, especially those stemming from German Expressionism, while also being almost extreme in effect, with these tortured angles on almost every shot. At the same time, the story itself is this combination of extremely seedy with implied rape, drugs, and murder all while there's this very-well drawn portrait of two men at it's center, Captain Quinlin and Vargas, who represents two sides of the same lawful coin.

The story itself is this twisting series of events as Quinlan finds his man responsible for the bombing that starts the film, plants evidence, and then has to cover his tracks as Vargas zeroes in on him. There is the inclusion of a Mexican crime boss who gets caught between the two, Vargas' wife who becomes a pawn, and even Marlena Dietrich in a largely excisable role as someone from Quinlin's past. The plot itself is twisty, but ultimately, at the film's core, it's a story of a man, and Welles never loses sight of that, grounding the audience in this seedy portrait of border-life with a great character while also giving us a character to root for in Vargas. Released maybe 10 years later, this could have been a hit at the box office. Released in the late 50s, no studio was really ready for it, and the audience wouldn't accept it. He released the right movie at the wrong time (never mind the fight with the studio over final cut).

Playfulness


This is where I have to bring in Hitchcock again. The combination of Welles' experimental edge and the fact that he always felt like a big kid in a box of toys while I watched his films reminded me of no one more than Alfred Hitchcock.

That ten minute long shot in Macbeth that includes dollying back and forth to keep actors in frame? Does it sound similar to Hitchcock's Rope? Well, Welles did it first. Macbeth came out in 1948, and Under Capricorn, the stylistic predecessor to Rope from Hitchcock, came out in 1949. This isn't an effort on my part to place Welles above Hitchcock in any way (I don't value originality in artists, all that much), but just to demonstrate that Welles and Hitchcock were experimenting in similar veins. As an aside, I think the dual tracks of experimentation in long-takes were simply coincidental since Welles was doing very long takes in The Magnificent Ambersons and Hitchcock had been doing similar things since he'd gotten over the growing pains of the sound era with movies like Murder!.

Another thing is the pair's efforts at playing the audience. The odd combination of low-brow and high-brow that marked Welles' work played less well with mass audiences than Hitchcock's understanding of time and place that kept things like murder clean in North by Northwest, but Welles' command of tension and suspense was no less accomplished than the Master of Suspense. The final reel of Othello is some of the tensest film I've seen as the titular Moor looms over his innocent wife in deep, dark shadows, all perfectly framed and executed through the edit in a manner that Hitchcock himself, I would not be surprised to find, would admire.

But it's not just tension. Something like The Lady from Shanghai ends with that famous sequence in the funhouse (that the studio forced him to cut to the bone) with mirrors multiplying characters as they face off in the finale of the noir's ghoulish premise. Chimes at Midnight combines five different Shakespeare plays (mostly just two, Henry IV in its two parts) into one film centered around his favorite character of Falstaff, mostly played with this light and infectious tone that just feels fun to me (it goes appropriately heavy in the final act as Falstaff meets his own tragic end, falling out of favor of the newly crowned Henry V).

He made three noirs, all of which are quite good as well, and those are just playgrounds for tense playfulness. His Shakespeare adaptations are freewheeling affairs. He loved to experiment. He was just fun.

Reputation


There's a great moment in Filming The Trial, an 80-minute long Q&A that Welles had imagined to become something else, when he's asked by a student from a film program in Southern California a question. These students are significantly snootier than Welles ever is, and the low point is when one of them asks him if he's frustrated that all of this "escapism" (the thing was filmed in the early 80s, so he's obviously referring to Star Wars) has supplanted "real" art at the cinemas.

Welles, as was his wont, cuts the kid off with perhaps a couple of words left in the question and announces, "I love escapism," before explaining how one of his earliest creative jobs was to write nonsense science fiction (Spider Women from Mars, he says), and that he's always enjoyed it.

This kid, while Welles was alive, was convinced that Welles was this snooty artiste who looked down on popular entertainment. Why would he think that? Because his films were never popular, and because his fans were all kind of snooty. Welles ended up being forced to deal with this perception of himself, and all he wanted to do was entertain. He was somewhat particular in terms of subjects that he chose (Shakespeare is almost never box office gold), and he was always being sideswiped by timing (The Magnificent Ambersons finishing just before Pearl Harbor was something like a death sentence for his vision of the film), but he was really just trying to entertain. He wanted to find ways to engage audiences with what resources he had, but what's interesting is that it never feels like he's chasing a trend.

He was always his own man in the face of all the adversities he faced professionally, and that just did not jive well with a studio system that really needed studio-men. The studios could tolerate individual talents with large egos if they brought in money (Wyler and Hitchcock are key examples), but Welles just couldn't connect with audiences the right way at the right time.

Legacy


And that leaves his legacy, largely formed by his own fans who hold him in such esteem that they end up repelling as many people as they attract. When Peter Bogdanovich, in his ascot and quasi-Connecticut accent, tells you that Welles is the greatest filmmaker ever, many people will just hear the messenger and not the message. When William Friedkin says that Citizen Kane changed his life, people are left wondering why the film didn't change theirs.

And I find myself caught in the middle, frustrated with everyone because his advocates are doing it wrong while those unfamiliar with his work are simply tuning him out because of something that's not his actual work. One thinks that Citizen Kane is the most overrated movie ever? That tells me nothing. You could still think it's great, just not, you know, Predator great. Which is fine, but the conversation isn't about the movie, it's about expectation. I just want to talk about the movie, and Welles' fans make it almost impossible to do that.

So, if I were to recommend the discovery of Welles, I'd suggest this: Start with his noirs. Start with Touch of Evil, The Stranger, and The Lady from Shanghai. These are the most generally entertaining films he made. They hit the most mass-appeal touchpoints, especially a few decades after their release, compared to the others. Then, having gotten through and, hopefully, enjoying those, go with his Shakespeare adaptations: Macbeth, Othello, and Chimes at Midnight. That's more than half of his filmography right there.

Having enjoyed those, then you delve deeper and finally discover Citizen Kane alongside The Magnificent Ambersons, The Trial, and even F for Fake, his quasi-documentary/magic trick. If you want to go further, you can always then go into his unfinished work like Mr. Arkadin and The Other Side of the Wind, leaving The Immortal Story (the closest he came to making an Ingmar Bergman movie) for last.

I hope I can convince at least one person to discover and enjoy his work.

Movies of Today

Opening in Theaters:

Beetlejuice Beetlejuice

Movies I Saw This Fortnight:

Alien: Romulus (Rating 2/4) Full Review "So, meh. I don't hate it. It's not good, though. Not even close." [Theater]

The Stranger (Rating 3.5/4) Full Review "The Stranger may be minor and less personalized Welles, but it's still Welles. He's playfully working within genre and doing it well." [Personal Collection]

The Lady from Shanghai (Rating 3.5/4) Full Review "It's a fun genre exercise given real flare by Welles the director." [Personal Collection]

Macbeth (Rating 3.5/4) Full Review "Welles has always struck me first and foremost as a playful director, and here he goes for home runs of style in adapting a play he obviously loved. It's fun. It's got terror. It's got drama. It's got acting. It looks great. This is just good, old fashioned entertainment." [Personal Collection]

Othello (Rating 4/4) Full Review "It's kind of an incredible achievement overall, especially with the backstory as part of the experience, making it kind of surprising that it works at all. But it's doesn't just work. It's a marked success, one of Welles' best films, and a supreme example of his ability to wring quality from distress." [Personal Collection]

Touch of Evil (Rating 4/4) Full Review "In terms of art, though, I think it's hard to argue with the results. When Welles had more control, the results were simply better." [Personal Collection]

Chimes at Midnight (Rating 4/4) Full Review "This film is filled with such warm humanity, with Welles' love of the subject, and Welles' talent on full display (including what may be his best performance), and I just fall into its groove and stay there. I really think this is the pinnacle of a very strong filmography." [Personal Collection]

F for Fake (Rating 3.5/4) Full Review ""It's pretty, but is it art?"" [Personal Collection]

Contact

Email any suggestions or questions to thejamesmadison.aos at symbol gmail dot com.
I've also archived all the old posts here, by request. I'll add new posts a week after they originally post at the HQ.

My next post will be on 9/28, and it will talk about the films directed by Tony Scott.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 07:45 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Popcorn time

Posted by: Skip at September 07, 2024 07:45 PM (fwDg9)

2 Not even. What we neec is common sense Marxist control. AI be damged

Posted by: Hokey Pokey at September 07, 2024 07:52 PM (QSrLX)

3 Thank you TJM for the fine essay.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 07:54 PM (wNh9V)

4 I think Welles made a great Mr. Rochester in the Joan Fontaine "Jane Eyre".

Posted by: Tuna at September 07, 2024 07:55 PM (oaGWv)

5 as people strut and fret from one side of the stage to the next”

ISWYDT!

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 07, 2024 07:55 PM (fIpti)

6 Thx TJM. Citizen Kane, The Magnificent Ambersons, and A Touch of Evil are great films. Welles was so good he made Charlton Heston believable as a Mexican.

Posted by: Smell the Glove at September 07, 2024 07:56 PM (RshWO)

7 3 Thank you TJM for the fine essay.
Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 07:54 PM (wNh9V

====

No. Thank you!

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 07:56 PM (GBKbO)

8 5 as people strut and fret from one side of the stage to the next”

ISWYDT!
Posted by: Tom Servo at September 07, 2024 07:55 PM

====

I don't get it.

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 07:57 PM (GBKbO)

9 6 Thx TJM. Citizen Kane, The Magnificent Ambersons, and A Touch of Evil are great films. Welles was so good he made Charlton Heston believable as a Mexican.
Posted by: Smell the Glove at September 07, 2024 07:56 PM (RshWO)

===

Apparently, he mumbles his Spanish so badly that it's really hard to understand.

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 07:57 PM (GBKbO)

10 I very much liked Chimes of Midnight; I’ve seen one reviewer note that it changed how battle scenes were filmed; no one before had shot one from a grounds eye view of one of the fighters, with horses and soldiers sweeping by.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 07, 2024 07:58 PM (fIpti)

11 I don't think I've seen any of Welles' movies except for Kane. And that one left me just kind of....meh. Didn't hate it, wasn't particularly wowed by it, either. Probably that's because I heard a lot about it before actually watching it all the way through, so nothing really took me by surprise.

But there was a lot of effort and technical skill that went into making it, and that I can appreciate.

Posted by: Dr. T at September 07, 2024 07:58 PM (lHPJf)

12 I think you always have to put people into their time when evaluating their performance or importance. But I still think it's interesting to think about how some would relate now. Like Wells in today's Hollywood or Babe Ruth in today's baseball.

Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 07:59 PM (H2zSJ)

13 I did see touch of evil recently

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:00 PM (PXvVL)

14 as people strut and fret from one side of the stage to the next”

ISWYDT!
Posted by: Tom Servo at September 07, 2024 07:55 PM

====

I don't get it.
Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 07:57 PM


Forget it...it's an idiotic tale.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at September 07, 2024 08:00 PM (Wnv9h)

15 And was most impressed

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:01 PM (PXvVL)

16 Oh. And also, the one thing about Kane that made a strong impression on me was the room-trashing scene near the end, but only because it was referenced in one of Red Letter Media's Star Wars reviews with Plinkett's commentary.

"Yeah, you f*ck up that room, Kane! Just like Tommy Wiseau!"

Posted by: Dr. T at September 07, 2024 08:01 PM (lHPJf)

17
I don't get it.
Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 07:57 PM (GBKbO)

Wells’ films were full of sound and fury.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 07, 2024 08:02 PM (fIpti)

18 10 I very much liked Chimes of Midnight; I’ve seen one reviewer note that it changed how battle scenes were filmed; no one before had shot one from a grounds eye view of one of the fighters, with horses and soldiers sweeping by.
Posted by: Tom Servo at September 07, 2024 07:58 PM (fIpti)

===

He had no money and never more than 2 or 3 dozen extras in armor. He had to come up with something, so closeups from the ground and A LOT of editing makes it feel a lot larger.

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 08:02 PM (GBKbO)

19 I saw the stranger several times in the past

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:02 PM (PXvVL)

20 Wiseau like all adr

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:04 PM (PXvVL)

21 Welles saw much of himself in early kane the infant terrible who thought the rules didnt apply to him

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:05 PM (PXvVL)

22 I can appreciate Welles movies, they certainly are great visual works.

Posted by: Skip at September 07, 2024 08:05 PM (fwDg9)

23 “get shorty” led me to “touch of evil”

Posted by: cherries are the best at September 07, 2024 08:06 PM (OMSrd)

24 23 “get shorty” led me to “touch of evil”
Posted by: cherries are the best at September 07, 2024 08:06 PM (OMSrd)

===

Chili Palmer geeking out to the end of Touch of Evil is a better advocate for Welles than Bogdanovich ever was.

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 08:07 PM (GBKbO)

25 He had no money and never more than 2 or 3 dozen extras in armor. He had to come up with something, so closeups from the ground and A LOT of editing makes it feel a lot larger.
Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 08:02 PM (GBKbO)

It’s fun to note that that’s similar to what Shakespeare himself would have had to when was directing his plays, since his battle scenes would all have to take place on a rather small stage.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 07, 2024 08:08 PM (fIpti)

26 I liked "RKO 281" (1999), a drama purporting to be based on inside story of production of "Kane." I liked and remember Kane, The Stranger, F for Fake, Touch of Evil. TJM has given me a couple good titles for my catchup list.

In other movie news, the world's largest streaming movie pirate site, fmovies, has been shut down by an international coalition of LE agencies.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 08:08 PM (wNh9V)

27 I never followed up on that one

Of course harry lime who isnt quite the star of the third man but gives the heart of it

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:08 PM (PXvVL)

28 >>>Does it sound similar to Hitchcock's Rope? Well, Welles did it first.

I can see how a film buff, interested in the evolution of the craft of movie making, would place a lot of importance in something like that. But as someone who just wants to check out an old film because it is highly recommended, that is all inside baseball to me. I'm just watching for the enjoyment, whether it be low-brow humor or something that makes me think.

I will give credit for being well done, but no points for it being the film that first used with the technique.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at September 07, 2024 08:08 PM (klJTj)

29 Added "Under Capricorn" (1949) to my list too.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 08:11 PM (wNh9V)

30 Svengoolie has killer clowns

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:12 PM (PXvVL)

31
I like Citizen Kane and have watched it many times but I could never finish The Magnificent Ambersons.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at September 07, 2024 08:13 PM (63Dwl)

32 29 Added "Under Capricorn" (1949) to my list too.
Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 08:11 PM

===

I genuinely love the film, but I'm a bit alone on that.

It always gets billed as another Hitchcock thriller, but it's more of a straight drama with those thriller elements making a quick appearance in the end.

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 08:13 PM (GBKbO)

33 "Hell's Highway" (1931) Pretty darn good chain gang flick from the WB Archive Collection's 'Forbidden Hollywood' stack. If George Reeves and John Wayne and Victor Mature had a kid together, he would look like Dick Dix.

"Experiment Perilous" (1944) Another wbarchive pick. Hedy is pretty fer sure, but this one's a real snoozer. Title is particularly stupid and annoying.

"This Woman is Dangerous" (1952) Crawford-fueled noir starts slow, but turns out worth the watch. Some good lighting and composition. Third act includes rare location shot of the towering mountains of Indiana. wbarchive.

"Confessions of a Nazi Spy" (1939) A must-watch. Enemy propaganda triggers "half-witted hysterical crackpots who go Hitler Happy." Poor sound editing had me reaching for the volume control often. wbarchive.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 08:14 PM (wNh9V)

34 In other movie news, the world's largest streaming movie pirate site, fmovies, has been shut down by an international coalition of LE agencies.
Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 08:08 PM (wNh9V)

Theft of any kind is wrong but it's interesting what the priorities of the powerful are.

Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 08:14 PM (H2zSJ)

35 "The Wrong Man" (1956) One of Hitchcock's pet subthemes is that women conjure most of the trouble in the world. In this drama, a couple of Karens finger an innocent bassist for a felony. His wife, upon learning that her failure to economize has ruined her family, ruins it more by going mad. Movie made me ponder the deep question: is any bassist truly innocent? wbarchive.

"One of Our Aircraft is Missing" (1942) Limey bomber crew downed in Netherlands assisted by local resistance. Too earnest. Lacks subtlety.

"Miss V from Moscow" (1942) Armed with her purse gun and torpedo rack, Soviet master spy Lola Lane confounds the Nazis in this inept ultra-low-budget stinker.

"Illegal" (1955) Prosecutor EG Robinson fries the wrong man (Bones McCoy.) Shattered by guilt, he breaks bad. Then Hugh Marlowe calls Jayne Mansfield 'a dumb broad.' Shortly thereafter, he takes four .38 slugs in the chest. (Well, WTF did he expect would happen?) I don't regret watching it.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 08:15 PM (wNh9V)

36 Touch of Evil had Chester Goode in it.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at September 07, 2024 08:18 PM (63Dwl)

37 There’s some clips on YouTube of Orson Welles reading for ads, for example Frozen Peas. Obviously the producers just want Welles to read the script because of his voice, but Welles is a complete ass and gives them holy hell about the wording of the short ad copy endlessly. You can visualize everyone there tearing their hair out having to put up with Welles’ antics.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 07, 2024 08:18 PM (fIpti)

38 this isn't technically a movie, but it is very well filmed

"Shia LaBeouf" Live - Rob Cantor

https://youtu.be/o0u4M6vppCI

Posted by: Kindltot at September 07, 2024 08:20 PM (D7oie)

39 They did an animaniacs parody of those ads

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:22 PM (PXvVL)

40 And he was the voice of robin masters in at leasr onr magnim film

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:22 PM (PXvVL)

41 I can't stay up any longer
Hope you all have a great night

Posted by: Skip at September 07, 2024 08:23 PM (fwDg9)

42 Always found Citizen Kane boring (as in "who cares about this guy?"), and never managed to last to the end of the movie.
Whereas The Magnificent Ambersons I have watched two or three times and I find it quite engrossing.
Same with The Third Man (especially the zither music that gets me every time), even though Welles only acted in it , did not direct.

Posted by: Fritz at September 07, 2024 08:23 PM (vMtiO)

43 I do need to watch more of his films. I am in the odd position of being able to understand the film snobs, without remotely being one, because I watched Citizen Kane, and it stuck with me. There was some kind of majesty there, plus an impish quality, plus startling visuals. Some part of me said "oh, this is that film thing that the geeks talk about."

The only other one I've seen was The Third Man, which I can barely remember. It did not strike me in any way, other than "that was a really long time to wait for a really anticlimactic reveal."

I guess it's time to dust off the LaserDisc player and finally watch that disc of Touch of Evil I bought all those years ago.

I really regret that Orson Welles never portrayed Nero Wolfe. He would have been absolutely perfect.

Posted by: Splunge at September 07, 2024 08:24 PM (hmKaK)

44 Welles is easily one of the greatest filmmakers.

This is not up for discussion.

He also may be the best actor who is also a director although I'd pay money to watch him and Clint arm wrestle for the title.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at September 07, 2024 08:24 PM (XV/Pl)

45 Well the first part is really interested kane up until he runs for mayor

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:25 PM (PXvVL)

46 I don't think I've ever seen a Welles movie. Probably because I dislike the critics' adulation of him.

Posted by: davidt at September 07, 2024 08:25 PM (i0F8b)

47 Yes he had that perfect air of mystery plus the heft

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:25 PM (PXvVL)

48 Chodorovsky cosidered for his equally insane dune film

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:26 PM (PXvVL)

49 There's a very timely line in Citizen Kane. From memory:

Wife: "People will think..."
Charles Foster Kane: "...what I TELL them to think."

Posted by: Splunge at September 07, 2024 08:26 PM (hmKaK)

50 Been quite some time since I watched any of Welles' stuff, and a couple of those mentioned I'd missed completely. Already have an Amazing Colossal To-Be-Read Pile of books. If I keep hanging around the movie threads I'll have to set up an Amazing Colossal To-Be-Watched Pile of movies.

So many books/flicks, so little time...

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 07, 2024 08:26 PM (q3u5l)

51 44 He also may be the best actor who is also a director although I'd pay money to watch him and Clint arm wrestle for the title.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at September 07, 2024 08:24 PM (XV/Pl)

====

There was a critique of Welles' performance in Othello that said, "Welles does not act, he is photographed."

I...think it has some merit.

Some. His Falstaff is wonderful. His Quinlin is really good. But...his Othello is maybe the one issue with Othello.

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 08:27 PM (GBKbO)

52 "There was some kind of majesty there, plus an impish quality, plus startling visuals. Some part of me said "oh, this is that film thing that the geeks talk about.""

The camera angles and acting are great, but for me, most of all the story rocks.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 08:27 PM (wNh9V)

53 He also may be the best actor who is also a director although I'd pay money to watch him and Clint arm wrestle for the title.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at September 07, 2024 08:24 PM (XV/Pl)

I'm pretty sure how the arm wrestling would go.

Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 08:28 PM (H2zSJ)

54 Now welles was going by swanbergs source material which was perhaps the worst diatribe think michael wolff

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:28 PM (PXvVL)

55 The only other one I've seen was The Third Man, which I can barely remember. It did not strike me in any way, other than "that was a really long time to wait for a really anticlimactic reveal."

I think the Third Man is a great movie, seen it several times. Of course Joseph Cotten and Trevor Howard have bigger parts in it than Welles does. One of the things I find most interesting is that it’s one of the very few films to show exactly and honestly how most of Europe looked and felt in the months after the end of the war - it was a chaotic shambles.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 07, 2024 08:29 PM (fIpti)

56 Swanberg also did a number on luce no ones done a film about him

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:29 PM (PXvVL)

57 @51

@51

>>But...his Othello is maybe the one issue with Othello.


Brother tends to be hammy, but what do you expect from a voice and face like that?

He's like the inverse of Steve Buschemi.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at September 07, 2024 08:29 PM (XV/Pl)

58 I recommend to all lovers of Welles' career and of crime fiction the jewel of Max Allan Collins historical "Disasters" series (6 novels in which mysteries are solved by famous mystery writers during notorious catastrophes), "The War of the Worlds Murder," in which Walter Gibson (creator of The Shadow) has to protect the impresario of the Mercury Theater from being arrested while his most famous radio play ever is under way .... It features a twist I never saw coming, and a very detailed and understanding portrait of Welles. Free on Kindle Unlimited, or only $4 to own. Have fun.

Posted by: werewife, princess of Delray Beach at September 07, 2024 08:29 PM (wwf+q)

59 229 I want to know if the last Flash Cadillac & The Continentals concert will be recorded and filmed. Mrs. E had a ticket on hold when she realized she has a knee replacement 4 days before. Can you help me out, Emmie?
Posted by: Eromero at September 07, 2024 08:13 PM (LHPAg)
Willowed previous thread.

Posted by: Eromero at September 07, 2024 08:30 PM (LHPAg)

60 Long Hot Summer was Orson Wells best acting movie.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 08:31 PM (kNkY2)

61 I love how “The Brain” in Pinky and the Brain was a mimicry of Welles’ voice. It was perfect!

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 07, 2024 08:31 PM (fIpti)

62 Orson Welles also did The Shadow radio show

Posted by: Kindltot at September 07, 2024 08:32 PM (D7oie)

63 Yes maurice la marche

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:33 PM (PXvVL)

64 62 Orson Welles also did The Shadow radio show
Posted by: Kindltot at September 07, 2024 08:32 PM (D7oie)

===

Yeah, but did the Shadow know that?

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 08:33 PM (GBKbO)

65 In before Ciampino!

Boeing's troubled Starliner space capsule returns to Earth without crew after NASA deemed crewed flight too risky.

Posted by: andycanuck (CEzQx) at September 07, 2024 08:33 PM (CEzQx)

66 Welles not only was a great movie director but a great actor as well. His Harry Lime in The Third Man was spot on.
Also his War of the Worlds radio broadcast made any other fiction ever done in the media before or since seem small

Posted by: Smell the Glove at September 07, 2024 08:34 PM (RshWO)

67 He is good in Long Hot Summer - but Burl Ives played a very similar part in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, and I think he did it better. Of course Burl Ives was a great actor.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 07, 2024 08:34 PM (fIpti)

68 Orson Welles also did The Shadow radio show
Posted by: Kindltot at September 07, 2024 08:32 PM (D7oie)

We will never see anything as creative and compelling again as the old time radio shows .

Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 08:36 PM (H2zSJ)

69 If he hadnt screwed up on that south america film where would he have ended up

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:37 PM (PXvVL)

70 "War of the Worlds radio broadcast made any other fiction ever done in the media before or since seem small"

Well, we've had a shit-ton of hair-raising media fiction lately. It's a tough call.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 08:37 PM (wNh9V)

71 Yes but doing it without only sound effects without any visuals

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:38 PM (PXvVL)

72 " ... I think Welles' movies are fun. They aren't art house cinema. They're not Tarkovsky or Bresson. "

no rational living being can say that "Fifth Element" is not fun.

just sayin' ...

& g'night everyone!
early hike tomorrow!

willowed comment on hobbythread.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - they have been lying to us for decades at September 07, 2024 08:40 PM (UWgy2)

73 Everybody is leaving out the most important part of Orson Wellls. He got to sleep with Rita Hayworth.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 08:41 PM (kNkY2)

74 Future m bernard lee was also in thin man

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:41 PM (PXvVL)

75 73 Everybody is leaving out the most important part of Orson Wellls. He got to sleep with Rita Hayworth.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 08:41 PM (kNkY2)

===

Yeah, but he cut and dyed her hair, too.

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 08:42 PM (GBKbO)

76 Yeah so.

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 07, 2024 08:42 PM (PXvVL)

77 We will sell no wine before its time. Ahhhhh, the French!....

Posted by: look whats not at September 07, 2024 08:44 PM (nakGR)

78 Throwing around the phrase "greatest film ever made" with no (as in zip, zero, nada) mention of Prometheus?

It's like I don't know you people anymore.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 07, 2024 08:44 PM (a3Q+t)

79 I've been watching a lot of Bogart movies where he was the bad guy. He does that role pretty well.

I think him and Robert Duvall are the best in playing both the good and bad guy.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 08:45 PM (kNkY2)

80 Celebrate exploitation? So we're all good with Weinstein.

Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 08:45 PM (H2zSJ)

81 Greatest film ever made? I'm going with Wizard of Oz.

Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 08:48 PM (H2zSJ)

82 81 Greatest film ever made? I'm going with Wizard of Oz.
Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 08:48 PM (H2zSJ)
The Outlaw Josey Wales.

Posted by: Eromero at September 07, 2024 08:49 PM (LHPAg)

83 Charlton Heston wrote some very interesting articles about his Hollywood days (I believe they were published in NR), and I remember one story in particular he related about Welles.

As I recall the story, Heston and Welles were having lunch one day, many years after Citizen Kane was filmed, and a young man approached the table, a huge fan of Welles, and he started gushing about how much he loved his work. "But there is one thing I've always been puzzled about", said the young man. "What is that", inquired Welles. "In Citizen Kane, how did anybody learn that his last word before dying was 'rosebud'? He was alone when he uttered the word."

Welles stared hard at the young man for several long seconds, and then said, "Don't you ever repeat that observation to anyone as long as you live".

Posted by: Paco at September 07, 2024 08:49 PM (njExo)

84 @79

>>I think him and Robert Duvall are the best in playing both the good and bad guy.

Duvall has more range than bogart although bogart could pull off menace better than Duvall.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at September 07, 2024 08:49 PM (XV/Pl)

85 Movie related. The real story The African Queen was based on.

https://is.gd/wpQjIK

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at September 07, 2024 08:49 PM (L/fGl)

86 My grandma said her sister in law came running over to their house and told her to turn on the radio, we were being attacked. My Irish grandma told her to settle down and she would make them some tea. Aliens would have to have some tea with my grandma before they went back to Mars. She would have insisted.

Posted by: Megthered at September 07, 2024 08:50 PM (XR9vR)

87 OT

HA HA (Nelson Muntz laff)

Notre Dame choked hard against Northern Illinois.

(now back to your programming, already in progress)

Posted by: Puddleglum at work at September 07, 2024 08:52 PM (bxwtE)

88 I was noticing I've been watching fewer movies then I used to.

COVID ended me going to the theater and the proliferation of streaming services means you have to pay for a lot of them to get a reasonable selection of movies.

Somehow we've wandered into a system that's far, far worse then it used to be...unless you pirate everything you want to see

Posted by: 18-1 at September 07, 2024 08:52 PM (oZhjI)

89 For what it's worth, currently rewatching Lawrence of Arabia.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at September 07, 2024 08:53 PM (Wnv9h)

90 Denzel can play both good guy or bad guy.

Posted by: davidt at September 07, 2024 08:53 PM (i0F8b)

91 82 81 Greatest film ever made? I'm going with Wizard of Oz.
Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 08:48 PM (H2zSJ)
The Outlaw Josey Wales.
Posted by: Eromero



Bladerunner

Posted by: Puddleglum at work at September 07, 2024 08:54 PM (bxwtE)

92 Denzel can play both good guy or bad guy.

Best Denzel movies...my take

Man on Fire
Flight
Fallen

Posted by: 18-1 at September 07, 2024 08:54 PM (oZhjI)

93 My mom listened to the radio show from the beginning and everyone in that house knew that it was just a show.

That was what she claimed anyway.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at September 07, 2024 08:55 PM (+H2BX)

94 Greatest film ever made...hmm

The Passion of the Christ
The Prestige
Lord of the Rings Return of the King

Posted by: 18-1 at September 07, 2024 08:55 PM (oZhjI)

95 In Avatar III: Fire and Ashe the good blue Navi are going to fight the bad red Navi.

https://is.gd/pBMMIC

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at September 07, 2024 08:55 PM (L/fGl)

96 Greatest film ever made? I'm going with Wizard of Oz.
Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 08:48 PM (H2zSJ)

===

The Outlaw Josey Wales.
Posted by: Eromero at September 07, 2024 08:49 PM


There is iron in the words of Eromero for every Moron to see.

Posted by: Duncanthrax Ten Bears at September 07, 2024 08:55 PM (a3Q+t)

97 @92

>>Best Denzel movies...my take

I really dug him in Devil In Blue Dress with Don Cheadle as mouse, I read all of the books and thought they would eventually turn them all into movies but they just made the one.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at September 07, 2024 08:57 PM (XV/Pl)

98 Denzel can play both good guy or bad guy.
Posted by: davidt at September 07, 2024 08:53 PM (i0F8b)

And the same way. He suffers from having to be nearly flawless.

Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 08:58 PM (H2zSJ)

99 95 In Avatar III: Fire and Ashe the good blue Navi are going to fight the bad red Navi.

https://is.gd/pBMMIC
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks



As subtle as a clown car careening down a cliff on fire and crashing thru an orphanage, then exploding.

Posted by: Puddleglum at work at September 07, 2024 08:59 PM (bxwtE)

100 Denzel was great in Much Ado about Nothing.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at September 07, 2024 09:00 PM (+H2BX)

101 They aren't art house cinema.

I would argue that they are. He pioneered a lot of techniques. It's just that he had a budget and wasn't a hack.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 07, 2024 09:00 PM (IG4Id)

102 100 Recommended.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 09:00 PM (wNh9V)

103 As subtle as a clown car careening down a cliff on fire and crashing thru an orphanage, then exploding.

Of course the problem is in a few years we will be commie and the message won't be obvious enough anyway or we'll have reformed and everyone will be back to thinking red = commie not MAGA...

Posted by: 18-1 at September 07, 2024 09:01 PM (oZhjI)

104 @99

>>As subtle as a clown car careening down a cliff on fire and crashing thru an orphanage, then exploding.

As subtle as failing to cover a roof 150 yards from the President and staffing his detail with rent a cops.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at September 07, 2024 09:01 PM (XV/Pl)

105 Is there any movie whose soundtrack thematically holds together better than Rocky Horror Picture Show?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 07, 2024 09:01 PM (a3Q+t)

106 84 Duvall has more range than bogart although bogart could pull off menace better than Duvall. - Thomas Bender

I agree. Just look at Bogart's face in that scene in The Maltese Falconwhere he tells Mary Astor "you're taking the fall". Or his face in the light of the campfire, accompanied by a sinister laugh, in Treasure of the Sierra Madre when he essentially admits to Tim Holt that he plans to jump him and kill him.

Posted by: Paco at September 07, 2024 09:02 PM (njExo)

107 @100

>>Denzel was great in Much Ado about Nothing.

As has been noted, Denzel has never been in objectively bad film that starred Denzel Washington , see Gene Hackman for an analog.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at September 07, 2024 09:02 PM (XV/Pl)

108 We will sell no wine before its time. Ahhhhh, the French!....
Posted by: look whats not at September 07, 2024 08:44 PM (nakGR)

Beat me to it....

So many commercials from my youth are too engrained that I fear when/if my mind starts to go those tag lines will be all I am left to rattle off to a group of caregivers.

Posted by: Rex B at September 07, 2024 09:03 PM (592Pr)

109 And the same way. He suffers from having to be succeeds in being nearly flawless.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at September 07, 2024 09:03 PM (+H2BX)

110 "a clown car careening down a cliff on fire and crashing thru an orphanage, then exploding."

Sounds like a potential tentpole megahit to me. IMAX.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 09:03 PM (wNh9V)

111 I can’t believe that anyone thought Vertigo was, it’s a terrible movie. A lot of style of course, but I rewatched it a couple years ago, and realized “this is one of the stupidest plots I’ve ever watched, and all of characters are idiots.” If you pay attention, you realize that Jimmy Stewart is going to be convicted of murder shortly after the movie ends.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 07, 2024 09:03 PM (fIpti)

112 105 Is there any movie whose soundtrack thematically holds together better than Rocky Horror Picture Show?
Posted by: Duncanthrax



Heavy Metal

Posted by: Puddleglum at work at September 07, 2024 09:04 PM (bxwtE)

113 "So many commercials from my youth are too engrained that I fear when/if my mind starts to go those tag lines will be all I am left to rattle off to a group of caregivers."

Brainwashed? We were never brainwashed.

"ay yay yay yay, I an the Frito Bandito..."

Posted by: no one of any consequence at September 07, 2024 09:05 PM (+H2BX)

114 Vertigo -- worth a viewing just for Bernard Herrmann's score.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 07, 2024 09:07 PM (q3u5l)

115 Greatest film noir, in my opinion: Out of the Past (1947), with Bob Mitchum, Jane Greer and Kirk Douglas. Also my nominee for Film In Which Most Cigarettes Were Smoked.

My kids and I used to throw dialogue from this movie at each other all the time, just for laughs.

Posted by: Paco at September 07, 2024 09:07 PM (njExo)

116 As has been noted, Denzel has never been in objectively bad film that starred Denzel Washington , see Gene Hackman for an analog.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at September 07, 2024 09:02 PM (XV/Pl)

++++

The remake of Pelham 123 was a turd.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at September 07, 2024 09:07 PM (klJTj)

117 105 Is there any movie whose soundtrack thematically holds together better than Rocky Horror Picture Show?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 07, 2024 09:01 PM (a3Q+t)

++++

Chicago.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at September 07, 2024 09:08 PM (klJTj)

118 The remake of Pelham 123 was a turd.

I remember Travolta being a better, similar villain in Operation Swordfish

Posted by: 18-1 at September 07, 2024 09:09 PM (oZhjI)

119 "Sooner or later, you'll own Generals!"

Posted by: Rex B at September 07, 2024 09:09 PM (592Pr)

120 116 The remake of Pelham 123 was a turd.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at September 07, 2024 09:07 PM (klJTj)

====

I watched that 2 days ago.

It's...okay. sort of.

I need to watch the original again.

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 09:09 PM (GBKbO)

121 "Greatest film noir, in my opinion: Out of the Past (1947), with Bob Mitchum, Jane Greer and Kirk Douglas."

Coincidentally I'm in the middle of "The Big Steal" (1949) with Mitchum and Greer.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 09:09 PM (wNh9V)

122 I nearly fell asleep watching the remake of Pelham.

Can't imagine falling asleep while watching the original -- a delight from first frame to last.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 07, 2024 09:10 PM (q3u5l)

123 @116

>>The remake of Pelham 123 was a turd.

Other than Travoltas over the top performance, it was a solid remake.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at September 07, 2024 09:10 PM (XV/Pl)

124 The original Pelham 123 is the NewYorkiest movie ever made. The casting, the dialogue, the atmosphere. 10 out of 10 on the NYC index.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 09:11 PM (wNh9V)

125 Being the toughest smartest strongest dude in every film has worked well for Denzel.

Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 09:11 PM (H2zSJ)

126 Evening.

I had never seen a single Welles film (save for maybe Muppets or Transformers) until I saw Touch Of Evil. I fell in love with that movie so freakin' hard. It's great!

The cutest little YouTube reviewer, Jerome Weiselberry, reviewed Citizen Kane two weeks ago.

https://youtu.be/YFKz5mUNGic

Posted by: Robert at September 07, 2024 09:13 PM (1Yy3c)

127 123 Other than Travoltas over the top performance, it was a solid remake.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at September 07, 2024 09:10 PM (XV/Pl)

====

Denzel's character is too good. It undermines any purported subtext in the comparison with Travolta's character.

Plus, Tony Scott isn't good at tension, and that's a story of tension.

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 09:13 PM (GBKbO)

128 By the way, I'm home. And...in my cups.

And I just ordered a very discounted version of Creature From the black lagoon on Amazon. Also the Wolf Man.

Posted by: Robert at September 07, 2024 09:15 PM (1Yy3c)

129 124 The original Pelham 123 is the NewYorkiest movie ever made. The casting, the dialogue, the atmosphere. 10 out of 10 on the NYC index.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 09:11 PM (wNh9V)

++++

I'd probably go with the original Gloria, but it's a close call. Gena Rowlands was exceptional.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at September 07, 2024 09:16 PM (klJTj)

130 Malcolm X > Training Day > Man on Fire > Much Ado About Nothing > Manchurian Candidate > that equalizer stuff

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 09:16 PM (wNh9V)

131 129 RIP Gena Rowlands.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 09:16 PM (wNh9V)

132 Did Tony Scott do Crimson Tide?

I haven't seen that movie since I saw it in theaters but I remember it was really good.

Posted by: Robert at September 07, 2024 09:17 PM (1Yy3c)

133 Denzel, as well as pretty much everyone else, was great in Glory

Posted by: Smell the Glove at September 07, 2024 09:18 PM (RshWO)

134 128 By the way, I'm home. And...in my cups.

And I just ordered a very discounted version of Creature From the black lagoon on Amazon. Also the Wolf Man.
Posted by: Robert at September 07, 2024 09:15 PM (1Yy3c)

===

Stupid Amazon convinced me to preorder Addams Family Values on 4Kbecause they included language on the listing saying the packaging was limited. I assume it's just the slip case, but dammit. The slip has the original poster. The actual cover is ugly.

If I'm smart, I'll resell the slip at some point.

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 09:18 PM (GBKbO)

135 And I just ordered a very discounted version of Creature From the black lagoon on Amazon. Also the Wolf Man.
Posted by: Robert at September 07, 2024 09:15 PM (1Yy3c)

Classics everyone should have in their film library.

Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 09:18 PM (H2zSJ)

136 132 Did Tony Scott do Crimson Tide?

I haven't seen that movie since I saw it in theaters but I remember it was really good.
Posted by: Robert at September 07, 2024 09:17 PM (1Yy3c)

==

I liked it.

It's kind of silly nonsense, but I liked it.

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 09:18 PM (GBKbO)

137 105 Is there any movie whose soundtrack thematically holds together better than Rocky Horror Picture Show?
Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 07, 2024 09:01 PM

The Commitments

Posted by: Moonbeam at September 07, 2024 09:19 PM (rbKZ6)

138 I'd probably go with the original Gloria, but it's a close call. Gena Rowlands was exceptional.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at September 07, 2024 09:16 PM (klJTj)

The original Gloria was a great movie, iirc John Cassavetes directed it.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 07, 2024 09:19 PM (fIpti)

139 @127

>>Denzel's character is too good. It undermines any purported subtext in the comparison with Travolta's character.

Leaving aside that there really was no reason to remake Pelham 123, the film is a solid drama/action film.

And it's a case of Denzel playing to type.

His three best films in my opinion would come in quick succession after that film, The Book of Eli, Unstoppable and Flight.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at September 07, 2024 09:20 PM (XV/Pl)

140 Classics everyone should have in their film library.
Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 09:18 PM (H2zSJ)

Up until...last year? Year before? I could have freakin' sworn I had that movie in my collection.

Well I'm fixing that now, motherf#^#ers!

Posted by: Robert at September 07, 2024 09:20 PM (1Yy3c)

141 138
The original Gloria was a great movie, iirc John Cassavetes directed it.
Posted by: Tom Servo at September 07, 2024 09:19 PM (fIpti)

===

I need to add him to the list at some point.

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 09:20 PM (GBKbO)

142 82 81 Greatest film ever made? I'm going with Wizard of Oz.
Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 08:48 PM (H2zSJ)
The Outlaw Josey Wales.
Posted by: Eromero


True dat!

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar (hOUT3) ~ This year in Corsicana - again! ~ at September 07, 2024 09:22 PM (hOUT3)

143 If I’m going to choose which film is the greatest by which one I’ve watched the most then it would have to be Uncle Buck or Jeremiah Johnson.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 09:22 PM (B1dzx)

144 141 Love that Cassavetes stuff. Improvisational hyperrealism, I'd call it. Intense.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 09:22 PM (wNh9V)

145 137 105 Is there any movie whose soundtrack thematically holds together better than Rocky Horror Picture Show?
Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 07, 2024 09:01 PM

The Commitments
Posted by: Moonbeam at September 07, 2024 09:19 PM (rbKZ6)

I don't know about thematically but the Last Action Hero is freakin' great. Megadeth, Anthrax, Queensryche, Alice In Chains and probably one of the best songs AC/DC ever did.

Posted by: Robert at September 07, 2024 09:22 PM (1Yy3c)

146 139 His three best films in my opinion would come in quick succession after that film, The Book of Eli, Unstoppable and Flight.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at September 07, 2024 09:20 PM (XV/Pl)

====

I liked Unstoppable a whole lot more than I thought I would.

Tony Scott makes a Roger Corman movie with $100 million and A listers.

Dolley and I have a running joke on that. "That movie is a lie. They stopped the train!"

"The title isn't about the train, it's about them forging a friendship."

We saw it while we were dating. RIP that dollar theater in Bitmingham.

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 09:23 PM (GBKbO)

147 Throwing around the phrase "greatest film ever made" with no (as in zip, zero, nada) mention of Prometheus?
It's like I don't know you people anymore.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 07, 2024 08:44 PM (a3Q+t)


Yoko Ono's film No. 4 has been claimed to be the best film ever made. Fortunately that one man was later captured, tied up and forced to watch Tarkovsky's Stalker and Zulawski's On The Silver Globe on an endless loop until his sense of artistic taste flatlined and he was safe to release back into the world.

Posted by: Kindltot at September 07, 2024 09:23 PM (D7oie)

148 144 141 Love that Cassavetes stuff. Improvisational hyperrealism, I'd call it. Intense.
Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 09:22 PM (wNh9V)

===

I saw a handful in the early days of my Netflix DVD days. Haven't seen anything since.

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 09:23 PM (GBKbO)

149 105 Is there any movie whose soundtrack thematically holds together better than Rocky Horror Picture Show?
Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 07, 2024 09:01 PM

I would also add “Jesus Christ Superstar”, but, like Chicago, it was a play before it was a movie. I think they should be in a separate category.

Posted by: Moonbeam at September 07, 2024 09:23 PM (rbKZ6)

150 @146

>>We saw it while we were dating. RIP that dollar theater in Bitmingham.

It's a perfect compilation of action, drama, character study, and payoff.

Also Rosario Dawson is easy on the eyes.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at September 07, 2024 09:25 PM (XV/Pl)

151 150 Also Rosario Dawson is easy on the eyes.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at September 07, 2024 09:25 PM (XV/Pl)

===

"If you say so."
-Cory Booker

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 09:26 PM (GBKbO)

152 Denzel was able to pull off the Magnificent Seven because of Bass Reeves. I’m sure people not familiar with Reeves questioned that casting.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 09:26 PM (B1dzx)

153
"Women Behind Bars" v. "Caged Heat"

Everything else is trash.

Posted by: Auspex at September 07, 2024 09:26 PM (j4U/Z)

154 Denzel played a good guy / bad guy in A Soldier's Story very well. Started out good, but then crossed the line.

Adolph Caesar was the real bad guy, so you couldn't really blame Denzel's character for what he did.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at September 07, 2024 09:27 PM (klJTj)

155 "Is there any movie whose soundtrack thematically holds together better than Rocky Horror Picture Show?"

"Hedwig and the Angry Inch" (2001).

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 09:27 PM (wNh9V)

156 If you haven't read the John Godey book on which Taking of Pelham is based, you really should..

Posted by: Joe Kidd at September 07, 2024 09:27 PM (IXbHc)

157 Best soundtrack: Apocalypse Now

Posted by: Accomack at September 07, 2024 09:27 PM (JY+81)

158 We saw it while we were dating. RIP that dollar theater in Bitmingham.
Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 09:23 PM (GBKbO)

Dear lawd...you bonded over a turd.

If only we all were so lucky.

Posted by: Robert at September 07, 2024 09:28 PM (1Yy3c)

159 Emperor of the North is the best train movie.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 09:28 PM (B1dzx)

160 156 If you haven't read the John Godey book on which Taking of Pelham is based, you really should..
Posted by: Joe Kidd at September 07, 2024 09:27 PM (IXbHc)

====

I have also discovered that it was made into a TV movie in the 90s.

No idea if it's any good, though.

Posted by: TJM's phone at September 07, 2024 09:28 PM (GBKbO)

161 The music in the movie The Harder They Come holds the movie, which is nuts , together very well. The soundtrack is a classic

Posted by: Smell the Glove at September 07, 2024 09:28 PM (RshWO)

162 I thought his films were ...meh.

Posted by: Paul Masson at September 07, 2024 09:29 PM (RIvkX)

163 Denzel, as well as pretty much everyone else, was great in Glory
Posted by: Smell the Glove

Let's see what he does in Gladiator II. I'm not holding out much hope for it other than the fact Denzel is in it.

Posted by: Tuna at September 07, 2024 09:29 PM (oaGWv)

164 Why no love for Golan and Globus? They owned the 80's.

Posted by: Accomack at September 07, 2024 09:29 PM (JY+81)

165 Been a while since I've seen Emperor of the North and should rewatch it. But without a second look at EotN, I'd have to go with The Train (Burt Lancaster, Paul Scofield), which is a dynamite flick.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 07, 2024 09:30 PM (q3u5l)

166 159 Emperor of the North is the best train movie.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 09:28 PM (B1dzx)

++++

Runaway Train.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at September 07, 2024 09:31 PM (klJTj)

167 I think John Landis owned the 80’s.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 09:31 PM (B1dzx)

168 'Best' is superlative. I have a lot of favorites. Everything about 'Dr. Zhivago' was excellent, especially the score.

Re 'The Book of Eli', "Put that Hand on Me Again and You Won't Get it Back"

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 07, 2024 09:31 PM (XeU6L)

169 Since he became a star Denzel always was an alpha. Never really weak or vulnerable in a believable way.

Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 09:32 PM (H2zSJ)

170 New York in the 70s movies
1. Death Wish
2. The Taking of Pelham 1-2-3
3. Dog Day Afternoon
4. French Connection
5. Serpico

Posted by: San Franpsycho at September 07, 2024 09:32 PM (RIvkX)

171 Emperor of the North is the best train movie.

Posted by: Sebastian
--------

Maybe. 'The Train' is my favorite. Lancaster did all of his own stunts.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 07, 2024 09:33 PM (XeU6L)

172 165 Been a while since I've seen Emperor of the North and should rewatch it. But without a second look at EotN, I'd have to go with The Train (Burt Lancaster, Paul Scofield), which is a dynamite flick.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 07, 2024 09:30 PM (q3u5l)

"The General" Buster Keaton.

Posted by: Auspex at September 07, 2024 09:33 PM (j4U/Z)

173 149 105 Is there any movie whose soundtrack thematically holds together better than Rocky Horror Picture Show?
Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 07, 2024 09:01 PM

I would also add “Jesus Christ Superstar”, but, like Chicago, it was a play before it was a movie. I think they should be in a separate category.

Posted by: Moonbeam at September 07, 2024 09:23 PM (rbKZ6)

++++

The Rocky Horror Picture Show was based on the play, The Rocky Horror Show.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at September 07, 2024 09:35 PM (klJTj)

174 Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 07, 2024 09:33 PM (XeU6

I should have said my favorite. I am not the arbitrator of what’s best.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 09:35 PM (B1dzx)

175 I should have said my favorite. I am not the arbitrator of what’s best.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 09:35 PM (B1dzx)

++++

The internet is not the right place for you.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at September 07, 2024 09:37 PM (klJTj)

176 The Serial Killer movie with Dennis Quaid and Danny Glover was a pretty good train category movie. The name escapes me.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 09:37 PM (B1dzx)

177 I should have said my favorite. I am not the arbitrator of what’s best.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 09:35 PM (B1dzx)
====
It's kind of what we do around here.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at September 07, 2024 09:37 PM (RIvkX)

178 124 The original Pelham 123 is the NewYorkiest movie ever made. The casting, the dialogue, the atmosphere. 10 out of 10 on the NYC index.
Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs



That look Mattheu gave at the end of the movie was great!

Posted by: Puddleglum at work at September 07, 2024 09:37 PM (bxwtE)

179 I should have said my favorite. I am not the arbitrator of what’s best.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 09:35 PM (B1dzx)


"a trained hawk, a sure steed and the steppe open before you, that is what is best in life."

Posted by: Kindltot at September 07, 2024 09:39 PM (D7oie)

180
I should have said my favorite. I am not the arbitrator of what’s best.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth
--------

Pfft. Knew what you meant. When someone here asserts 'Best Whiskey', then things get contentious.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at September 07, 2024 09:39 PM (XeU6L)

181 The "tracking shot" for the opening to "Touch of Evil" is still one of my faves ...

Posted by: ShainS -- If Your Independence Lasts Over 4 Hours, You May Have Been Red-Pilled at September 07, 2024 09:40 PM (10Lv1)

182 "I am not the arbitrator of what’s best."

Ministry of Bestness.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 09:40 PM (wNh9V)

183 Bullet Train was a good train movie. I despise Sean Penn because the dochebag sat there pretending to cry at Hugo Chavez' funeral, but the movie was good

Posted by: Kindltot at September 07, 2024 09:41 PM (D7oie)

184 Rocky Horror Picture Show is decadent insane trash. Madness parading as culture.

Posted by: hart at September 07, 2024 09:41 PM (H2zSJ)

185 We can all be judges of what is best, unburdened by what was best before.

Posted by: Kamalahlah at September 07, 2024 09:42 PM (XeU6L)

186 Sitting here thinking about 'favorite' movie. There are plenty of candidates for the title, but I couldn't possibly pick a single favorite movie. Even in categories (noir? Out of the Past, Night and the City, Maltese Falcon...) (war stories? Bridge on the River Kwai, Zulu, The Train, The Great Escape ...) etc.

It's like picking a favorite book. Not sure I could do it.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 07, 2024 09:43 PM (q3u5l)

187 "The Taking of Pelham 123" 1974. I hated that film. I was 19. In San Diego. Who the heck are these people? They cannot be Americans. Everyone in NYC is shit.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at September 07, 2024 09:43 PM (+H2BX)

188 I usually sleep through the last hour of Rocky Horror

Worst editing job evah.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at September 07, 2024 09:44 PM (RIvkX)

189 I've been up since 0400. This is a long day for most anybody, but for a skinny old bastard like me it's tough. Only the Wild Turkey infusion saved me, well there was that roast beef anbd cheese sandwich too. And the chocolate pudding. But now I'm hitting the hay.

Posted by: Eromero at September 07, 2024 09:45 PM (LHPAg)

190 186 I'm drawing a blank too.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at September 07, 2024 09:45 PM (wNh9V)

191 "The Taking of Pelham 123" 1974. I hated that film. I was 19. In San Diego. Who the heck are these people? They cannot be Americans. Everyone in NYC is shit.
Posted by: no one of any consequence at September 07, 2024 09:43 PM (+H2BX)
===

Except for the hijacking part that was how my childhood looked.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at September 07, 2024 09:45 PM (RIvkX)

192 It's like picking a favorite book. Not sure I could do it.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 07, 2024 09:43 PM (q3u5l)

I agree on movies but I can definitely pick my favorite genre based books.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 09:46 PM (B1dzx)

193 My FiL took my MiL to the midnight showing of "Rocky Horror Picture Show" at The Strand in Ocean Beach. LOL. Hilarity ensued.

It turns out that old George was homo and wifey was "uptight."

Posted by: no one of any consequence at September 07, 2024 09:46 PM (+H2BX)

194 184: It's no 'Harley Davidson and The Marlboro Man', that's for sure.

Posted by: Puddleglum at work at September 07, 2024 09:47 PM (bxwtE)

195 If you want to go further, you can always then go into his unfinished work like Mr. Arkadin and The Other Side of the Wind ...

--------------

For those who don't know, in 2018 Peter Bogdonovich eventually pulled together, edited into, and released a version of The Other Side of the Wind starring John Huston and himself.

Posted by: ShainS -- If Your Independence Lasts Over 4 Hours, You May Have Been Red-Pilled at September 07, 2024 09:47 PM (10Lv1)

196 My favorite all time movie until I turned 16 was The Cowboys. I thought at the time it would be impossible for my peers to pick any other movie.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 09:49 PM (B1dzx)

197 TJM this essay is a keeper.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at September 07, 2024 09:50 PM (RIvkX)

198 Someone one told me that I lived a "sheltered childhood." LOL Thank God. There is a lot of shit out there that children should not have to face. At 19, it was a shock, but not unsurmountable.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at September 07, 2024 09:50 PM (+H2BX)

199 Personally, I think Rocky Horror was always meant to be an audience participation movie.

Way, way ahead of it's time.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at September 07, 2024 09:52 PM (Q4IgG)

200 TMJ you should do a Sylvester Stallone review,

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 09:53 PM (B1dzx)

201 Thanks for the thread, TJM.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 07, 2024 09:54 PM (q3u5l)

202 200 TMJ you should do a Sylvester Stallone review,
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth



'Cop Land' was great!

Posted by: Puddleglum at work at September 07, 2024 09:54 PM (bxwtE)

203 I was 17 when "The Cowboys" was to me the best John Wayne film. It was a shame that he had to die half way through. But I truly loved the performances of Roscoe Lee
Brown, Bruce Dern, Colleen Dewhurst, and even the stutterer.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at September 07, 2024 09:56 PM (+H2BX)

204 Never mind. I thought Stallone directed more than he did.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at September 07, 2024 10:00 PM (B1dzx)

205 105 Is there any movie whose soundtrack thematically holds together better than Rocky Horror Picture Show?
Posted by: Duncanthrax at September 07, 2024 09:01 PM


The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

Posted by: Gref at September 07, 2024 10:00 PM (aBgBM)

206 Why no love for Golan and Globus? They owned the 80's.
Posted by: Accomack


Well, they could have been money-laundering assholes, but your mileage may vary.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 07, 2024 10:02 PM (IG4Id)

207 Nood

Posted by: San Franpsycho at September 07, 2024 10:03 PM (RIvkX)

208 If it has Joseph Cotton in it I don't like it.

Posted by: Braenyard at September 07, 2024 10:14 PM (AN+eO)

209 Great essay, TJM!
Fellow film school grad, like yourself.
We traded posts on Terry Gilliam.
I admire Citizen Kane as the greatest film prior to
The Godfather.
But I keep watching Lady From Shanghai and
Chimes at Midnight more.
Always enjoy your insights!

Posted by: Browncoat formerly known as Mike at September 07, 2024 10:53 PM (9Afsw)

210 And an interesting comparison between William Friedkin
and Orson Welles: Friedkin says his film school was multiple viewings of Citizen Kane;
Welles said his film school was multiple
viewings of John Ford's Stagecoach.

Posted by: Browncoat formerly known as Mike at September 07, 2024 11:00 PM (9Afsw)

211 I showed one of my sons, who is 21, the film Black Orpheus (Fr-Bz), directed by Marcel Camus in 1962.

I guess it's my favorite film. My son liked it, even though it was a galaxy or two removed from any film he'd ever seen before. He really liked the music! As does Dad.

British actor & director Kenneth Branagh once said that Black Orpheus was his favorite film also.

I met a well-educated, English-fluent Brazilian dentist & his wife once when I was on vacation-- rafting in the Grand Canyon. To my surprise, he'd never even heard of the film. He was surprised to learn that it's been so internationally acclaimed.

Posted by: mnw at September 07, 2024 11:11 PM (NLIak)

212 Two quick comments.

First, I actually went to the trouble of reading Booth Tarkington's "The Magnificent Ambersons", and found that the movie is quite faithful to the original - with one exception. The book ends with a long section on George Minafer's redemption, which in the movie is reduced to a brief conversation between two characters. My guess is that that's the point in the story where the studio pulled the plug.

Second, if you ever pass through Kenosha, Wisconsin, where I live, you can see Welles' birthplace. It's a modest three-story house on 7th Avenue, still occupied, with a small plaque in the front yard. The neighborhood remains very much as it was when Welles was a boy; one can walk the streets and wonder what he made of it.

Posted by: Nemo at September 07, 2024 11:13 PM (S6ArX)

213 208

The Third Man has Joseph Cotton in the lead role.

If you don't appreciate The Third Man, then I can't help you.

BAFTA ranks it as the best British film of all time. It's a masterpiece.

Posted by: mnw at September 07, 2024 11:16 PM (NLIak)

214 If life was a meal I don't think I've wasted enough to interest the dogs.

Posted by: Roberto at September 07, 2024 11:26 PM (QUC63)

215 If you get a chance to see a Welles movie on the big screen, just pay the cash and go. Totally different from seeing one on tv. And a lot of movie theaters are showing classics in a matinee on one day of the week for like five dollars, so keep an eye out if you are retired or have a day off.

Posted by: Suburbanbanshee at September 08, 2024 08:39 AM (sF8WE)

216 Pretty nice post. I just stumbled upon your weblog
and wanted to mention that I've truly enjoyed surfing around your weblog posts.
After all I will be subscribing in your rss feed and I hope you write again soon!

Posted by: bokep viral at September 08, 2024 02:04 PM (BK+/t)

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