Sunday Morning Book Thread - 08-11-2024 ["Perfessor" Squirrel]

Welcome to the prestigious, internationally acclaimed, stately, and illustrious Sunday Morning Book Thread! The place where all readers are welcome, regardless of whatever guilty pleasure we feel like reading (he's always in the last place you look...). Here is where we can discuss, argue, bicker, quibble, consider, debate, confabulate, converse, and jaw about our latest fancy in reading material. As always, pants are required, unless you are wearing these pants...

So relax, find yourself a warm kitty (or warm puppy--I won't judge) to curl up in your lap, dust off those textbook covers, and dive into a new book. What are YOU reading this fine morning?

PIC NOTE

I had another picture lined up for this week, but then ace gave us an important update on Phas3 Thr33 of his sh3lving proj3ct. I found this artist's rendition of what that might look like.

WHY YOU SHOULDN'T TRUST BOOKTUBE

Although I do watch "BookTube" videos, I tend to take their opinions and recommendations with a fairly large grain of salt. I'm always a bit skeptical of their "top ten" lists or whatever, because they never line up with my own. That's only to be expected because everyone's tastes are different and what one person raves about, another will loathe. Some of these BookTubers do have hundreds of thousands of subscribers, though, so people do pay attention to them as long as they put out halfway decent content. I have quit a few BookTubers because they have annoyed me with their opinions on certain works of literature, because of how they respond to criticism, or they have revealed themselves a shill for certain intellectual properties that have been destroyed by wokeness (**cough**Amazon's Wheel of Time/Rings of Power**cough**). I certainly would not expect anyone in the Moron Horde to rely too much on the opinions of BookTubers unless they've been vetted somewhat and have provided good recommendations that you enjoy. We here at AoSHQ Sunday Morning Book Thread have an awesome, amazing community of readers who know their stuff when it comes to literature. I'd put us up against the subscribers of any BookTuber out there...

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(HT: I am the Shadout Mapes)

(Any resemblance to my cat Penny is purely coincidental.)

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J.R.R. TOLKIEN ON CREATING FICTIONAL WORLDS

I found this to be an odd interview. While Tolkien does ramble around a bit in his responses, it also sounds like the interviewer doesn't even try to understand the points Tolkien is making when it comes to creating fictional worlds. To me, it sounded like they were talking past each other, with each one having their own agenda in speaking, but not quite meeting each other in the middle. Granted, this is only a short snippet of a longer interview, so perhaps there is more to this story.

RESPONSE TO A COMMENT

I didn't have a chance to respond to JTB's comment last week, so I thought I'd do it now.

Perfessor,
You mentioned Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series in the post. My attempts at modern (compared to the LOTR and older) epics usually leave me cold. Too derivative or lacking depth. Do you think the Williams series is good enough to change that view?
Posted by: JTB at August 04, 2024 10:57 AM (zudum)

At the time The Dragonbone Chair--the first book in Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn--was released, the epic fantasy landscape looked very different than it does today. Lots of fantasy was inspired by Dungeons & Dragons, Michael Moorcock's darker Elric saga, and, of course, Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. It was not at all surprising to find derivative works because that is what publishers wanted based on demand from the public. Terry Brooks' Sword of Shannara was written expressly as a Tolkienesque story to meet that demand. His sequel, The Elfstones of Shannara, was a very, very different story, and set the foundation for all of the Shannara books that came afterwards.

On the surface, the basic plot of Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn has a lot in common with Lord of the Rings. The Big Bad Ineluki the Storm King, a spiritual being of immense malice and hatred towards humankind, launches a plan to destroy humanity and restore his own people, the mysterious Norns, an offshoot of the faerie-like Sithi, to their rightful place as the undisputed rulers of Osten Ard. Bands of unlikely heroes must go on their own epic quests to find the means to stop him.

However, the story itself goes much, much deeper as we are exposed to Tad Williams' own unique touches of worldbuilding that make his epic fantasy stand head-and-shoulders above most of his contemporary authors of that era. His tale is full of interesting, tragic backstory as we see that the Sithi have fallen very, very far from when they were in charge of the world. The remnant only seek to live in peace, but cannot because of the Storm King, their former lord and master, who stirs up the hatred of humans towards their own kind. The main villain we encounter, the excommunicated priest Pryrates, is one of my favorite bad guys in all of fantasy literature. He's a complete monster that will stop at nothing from achieving his goals, which are as dark and mysterious as he is. When we first meet him through the eyes of Simon, a young kitchen boy in the Hayholt, Pryrates crushes the skull of an innocent puppy in front of Simon just because he can. From that point on, Pryrates is an utter bastard that we love to hate.

While the bad guys are thoroughly evil, they are matched by good guys that embody virtue and heroism. Duke Isgrimnur, the gruff but loveable ruler of the Rimmersmen, shows his merit time and time again as he seeks the Princess Miriamele after she runs away from her father, who is caught up in wickedness beyond his understanding. He's another of my favorite characters because of his courage, his honor, and his dedication to protect those weaker than himself (which is pretty much everyone--he's quite large and beefy). Sir Deornoth, Price Josua's knight and his "right hand" (because Josua lost his own right hand in a fight many years ago), exemplifies the knightly virtues, despite his own doubts, basing his life around the legendary hero Sir Camaris. He has a minor, but ultimately significant role in the resolution of the plot at the end of the story, as it is through him that the heroes are able to find the tools needed to win the conflict. Saying any more would give away important spoilers...

I read these books during my prime formative years as a teenager--between the ages of 15-19 or so--which is also the age of the main character in the story, more or less (Simon is 14-16 over the course of the books). So I related to his hero's journey in many ways. It's a great story for adolescent boys. But it also holds up quite well for us older gents. I re-read it last year and enjoyed it just as much, if not more so, than I did when I was younger.

Williams has continued to enrich his world through a sequel series (The Last King of Osten Ard) and a couple of "interlude" novellas that take place within the same world, adding depth and complexity to a world that was already drowning in it.

MORON RECOMMENDATIONS

A fun (in a macabre way) look at the cycles of history is A Canticle for Liebowitz. After a thousand years of a nuclear winter, which sends most of humanity into primitive, dark-ages sort of existence, man becomes technological again, only to blow up the world again.
Posted by: no one of any consequence at August 04, 2024 09:27 AM (+H2BX)

Comment: It's been said that history doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes. We have not yet been through a truly cataclysmic world-shattering apocalypse as a species, though doomsday predictions have been fast and furious over the past few decades. We are also living in extremely perilous times. According to the extremists on the Left, the world will be doomed by climate change because of our recklessness. According to the right, the Leftists intend to destroy the world (or at least a significant majority of the population) on purpose. It remains to be seen which scenario plays out. And if it does, can humanity rise from the ashes to become a technological powerhouse once again? Are we doomed by our own hubris to continually destroy ourselves?

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I went back to my pile of recently-purchased used-kids-novels by Jim Kjelgaard. This time I went straight to his most iconic novel, Big Red. It stars a teenager, the sone of a backwoods hillbilly who lives on the edge of a mountain-ranch owned by some rich guy. The teenager does odd jobs for the ranch, and eventually the rich guy notices that the kid is good with dogs, so he entrusts the teen with his prize-winning Irish Setting show-dog, the titular Red. The teen then proceeds to teach Red how to be a working/hunting dog, in addition to just a show-dog.
The book is oddly paced. The first third is a typical narrative, that introduces the character and sets up the status quo. But then it turns into a series of single-chapter vignettes as we follow the kid and his dog as they go through the daily life of a backwoods hillbilly. They get into a series of scrapes (the backwoods are dangerous) but get out of them because of the sheer awesomeness of Red, or (occasionally) the cleverness of our teenage hero.
The ending of the book felt a little weak, because it was just another vignette. Sure, it was a more epic vignette, that tied back to an event at the start of the book, and altered the status quo of our main characters....but it was still just a vignette. There narrative wasn't driving towards an inevitable conclusion, we just hit the end after a series of unrelated episodes.
The vignette format may be okay in a kids book (just keep the kid's attention for a single nearly-stand-alone chapter at a time) but it was a little unsatisfying for me.
Given that, I dove straight into the sequel, "Irish Red," which is a nice continuation, but is still narratively choppy. I'll soon start "Outlaw Red" which will likely be more of the same.
Posted by: Castle Guy at August 04, 2024 09:55 AM (Lhaco)

Comment: As usual, I like to include recommendations for quality children's literature because they need it more than us 29-year-olds. I'm not surprised that the narrative structure is in the form of related vignettes about the life of a boy and his dog. I wonder what the intended age range is for this book. Maybe it was perceived at that time that the children reading the book would not have the patience or understanding of a more complicated plot structure with a solid beginning, middle, and end. The structure of Big Red is not confined to children's books, of course. Ray Bradbury's The Martian Chronicles and Clifford Simak's City are simply a series of loosely connected short stories, even though both books are sometimes called "novels."

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I started reading Hemingway's A Farewell To Arms, that was published on the day of the '29 stock market crash, in keeping with today's topic. It's based on his experience as an ambulance driver in WWI, as many here are probably aware. He wrote the ending 39 times, and the edition I'm reading has all versions, encouraging me to be more painstaking in my own writing.
Posted by: Norrin Radd, sojourner of the spaceways at August 04, 2024 09:49 AM (hsWtj)

Comment: I can't imagine writing the ending of a story 39 times before settling on the final one that goes to print. Just goes to show how critically important the editing process is. I'm curious as to which ending is the reader's preferred ending versus the author's preferred ending...

More Moron-recommended reading material can be found HERE! (1000+ Moron-recommended books!)

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WHAT I'VE ACQUIRED THIS PAST WEEK:

As you all know, I've been reading a fair number of Dean Koontz books lately, due in part to Moron Recommendations. Last week, one of you ~~forced~~ INSPIRED me to add a few more Dean Koontz books to my TBR pile:

The Face of Fear

The Funhouse

The House of Thunder

The Key to Midnight

Shattered

The Vision

The Voice of the Night

WHAT I'VE BEEN READING THIS PAST WEEK:

After reviewing some of OregonMuse's old Book Threads, I thought I'd try something a bit different. Instead of just listing WHAT I'm reading, I'll include commentary as well. Unless otherwise specified, you can interpret this as an implied recommendation, though as always your mileage may vary.

Salvation Lost by Peter F. Hamilton

I'm delving back into Peter F. Hamilton's Salvation Sequence of books. When we last left our heroes, they had just discovered the horrifying truth behind the supposed benevolence of an alien race, the Olyix, who are on a holy crusade to convert everyone in the galaxy to their way of thinking--by forcibly kidnapping them and mutilating them, if necessary. Now, the heroes of the present and those in a distant future struggle to find a way to stop their inexorable crawl across the universe until they reach the End of Time itself and find God.

As alien invasions go, this one is particularly horrific in scope and implementation. The Olyix "exchanged" biotechnology that enhanced human lifespans and capabilities, but there is a truly disturbing price to be paid when the full nature of that exchange is activated. Imagine if the COVID "vaccines" could be triggered to prepare us for alien conquest.

By this time I've read enough of Hamilton's works to know that there are multiple plot threads across multiple timelines (past, present, and future) and that there will be twists and turns galore before the end of the novel. Always an interesting read. Absolutely ludicrous levels of ultra-tech, though no faster-than-light drive technology....

Word and the Void Book 2 - A Knight of the Word by Terry Brooks

I needed something lighter and fluffier after reading Salvation Lost so I went with this one. It tells the tale of a man who suffers from PTSD after witnessing children being slaughtered from his own perceived incompetence in attempting to save them. Disillusioned with his calling as a Knight of the Word, he has left all that behind in an attempt to build a new life for himself that doesn't involve war with demons.

Unfortunately, life doesn't work that way. Now, aided by a young woman he saved several years ago, he must pick up his black staff once more and wield magic on behalf of the Lady who bestowed it upon him. Otherwise, many, many more innocent women and children will suffer. Possibly leading to the end of the world.

The Word and the Void trilogy is an urban fantasy series that Brooks canon welded into his long-running Shannara series. We find out in subsequent series that the demons of the Void were behind the Great Wars that ultimately lead to the creation of the Four Lands in the far distant future when magic has returned to the world.

PREVIOUS SUNDAY MORNING BOOK THREAD - 08-04-24 (NOTE: Do NOT comment on old threads!)

Disclaimer: No Morons were physically harmed in the making of this Sunday Morning Book Thread. Tremendous emotional damage was wrought throughout the Moron Horde, however...

Posted by: Open Blogger at 09:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Hola

Posted by: Thanatopsis at August 11, 2024 09:00 AM (ZUxK6)

2 Tolle Lege!

Posted by: LASue at August 11, 2024 09:02 AM (llS7k)

3 Tolle Lege

Posted by: Skip at August 11, 2024 09:03 AM (fwDg9)

4 Sundays are great-Mass and the Book Thread!

Posted by: LASue at August 11, 2024 09:03 AM (llS7k)

5 Howdy, horde.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 11, 2024 09:04 AM (q3u5l)

6 Morning, Morons!

Posted by: Trimegistus at August 11, 2024 09:06 AM (78a2H)

7 My cats aren't wildly enthusiastic about the Sunday Morning Book Thread.

They'd rather take their post-breakfast snooze instead.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at August 11, 2024 09:07 AM (BpYfr)

8 We have not yet been through a truly cataclysmic world-shattering apocalypse as a species,
______

I dunno, I'm willing to keep an open mind about the theory of an advanced human civilization mostly wiped out in the Younger Dryas rapid cooling/warming floods.

God Morning, Sunday morning.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at August 11, 2024 09:07 AM (fs1hN)

9 Good morning fellow Book Threadists. I hope everyone had a great week of reading.

Posted by: JTB at August 11, 2024 09:09 AM (zudum)

10 I read Red Gold by Alan Furst. When I began reading this series, my library system did not have this volume, the fifth in the series. I made a purchase request and they obtained it. This is the story of Jean Casson, once a well-to-do film producer who is recruited to act as liaison between resistance fighters in the Vichy government and communist resistance cells in Paris. Arms are smuggled to the communists, but most of their operations end in failure. For me, this was the weakest volume in the series.

Posted by: Zoltan at August 11, 2024 09:09 AM (JSfef)

11 Cthulhu!

*Runs away*

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at August 11, 2024 09:10 AM (Ka3bZ)

12 I'm well into "Shadow Warrior: The CIA Hero of a Hundred Unknown Battles." CIA contractor Felix Rodriguez has helped in the capture of Che Guevera, and a few months later he's headed for Vietnam.

(I'll be absent from the rest of this thread; my church is having Mission Sunday, in which we'll all be away on mission projects. I chose an easy one -- no lawn work or painting required.)

(Enjoy talking about books!)

Posted by: Weak Geek at August 11, 2024 09:10 AM (p/isN)

13 I'm willing to keep an open mind about the theory of an advanced human civilization mostly wiped out in the Younger Dryas rapid cooling/warming floods.

Posted by: Chuck Martel

Its possible, but wouldn't the smart ones be the most likely to survive?

Posted by: Thomas Paine at August 11, 2024 09:10 AM (Oz+em)

14 good morning Perfessor, Horde

Posted by: callsign claymore at August 11, 2024 09:10 AM (UXQDS)

15 I remember reading more as educational and fun on the cheap. Today, and into future, it may save my life. This is what I’ve learned.

Posted by: Eromero at August 11, 2024 09:11 AM (LHPAg)

16 Our cat doesn't pay much attention to the Book Thread either. Makes no attempt whatsoever to read any of the content or comments. She does, however, often like to park her annoying feline backside on my work table and try to sleep on my hand, which makes it difficult to type comments.

She also does this on the occasions when I'm wasting electricity/ink trying to write something; I have it on reliable authority from today's content that means she's not interested in my novel...

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 11, 2024 09:11 AM (q3u5l)

17 Finished Dimitri Volkogonov's biography of Lenin yesterday in a two day binge reading over 186 pages.
It's my around 7th book ( counting the 3 books of Gulag Archipelago as 1) and so think I am done with the Bolsheviks.
Nothing new planned this week

Posted by: Skip at August 11, 2024 09:13 AM (fwDg9)

18 Warm kitty engaged!

Pants on!

BEGIN!

Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 11, 2024 09:13 AM (kpS4V)

19 Good morning morons.

Still working my way through Girt an unauthorized history of Australia.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 11, 2024 09:13 AM (JvZF+)

20 Go for the greater evil

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at August 11, 2024 09:14 AM (PXvVL)

21 I don't know if this belongs here or in the Food Thread, but I've been having a great time reading a new cookbook, _Tasting History_ by Max Miller. It's a spinoff from his YouTube channel of the same name.

Miller's an appealing young chap, who has made it clear that he does not own a weedwhacker but isn't a bore about it. Before becoming a Youtube food history guru he was a performer aboard one of the Disney cruise ships, but when cast on the beach during COVID he started making videos. Consequently he has good "stage presence" and delivery, even though the videos are mostly static-camera talking head shots.

What I like about his channel -- and the cookbook, which I have not forgotten about -- is that he actually _does the research_. Lots of primary sources (though of course he has to rely on translations for a lot of them) and loads of context. I get very annoyed by food-history videos (and a few print articles) which are basically little more than "Ew! I can't believe they ate this!"

The cookbook is well-written, nicely laid out, looks as if it will survive some hard use in the kitchen, and I've tried a few of the recipes and they work quite well.

Posted by: Trimegistus at August 11, 2024 09:15 AM (78a2H)

22 Hydra as described in agents of shield is really an alien old ones cult uncovered by schmidt

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at August 11, 2024 09:15 AM (PXvVL)

23 On the Kindle, I read Windrush: City of the Dreadful Death by Malcolm Archibald. Major Windrush and his wife Mary are stranded on the Gold Coast of West Africa when their ship is severely damaged in a storm. Windrush becomes involved in the war against the Ashantis who are attacking the coastal tribes, enslaving them, and then performing human sacrifice to their gods. An exciting story and a little history to be learned.

Posted by: Zoltan at August 11, 2024 09:16 AM (JSfef)

24 I dunno, I'm willing to keep an open mind about the theory of an advanced human civilization mostly wiped out in the Younger Dryas rapid cooling/warming floods.

God Morning, Sunday morning.
Posted by: Chuck Martel at August 11, 2024 09:07 AM (fs1hN)
---
I think we've had several of these events transpire. There was the Bronze Age collapse for one, which pretty much ruined "the world" as it was known.

When doing research on Chinese history, I noticed that the rise and fall of dynasties echoed what was going on in the West despite the vast distances. Climate variation exists and during the same period where the West disintegrated and saw technological regression, the same was true in China. The Empire has gone through multiple periods of warring states, with immense suffering and loss as a result.

The cycle is basically the hard men/weak men meme. Prosperity leads to carelessness which weakens society and renders it incapable of responding to adversity.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 09:16 AM (llXky)

25 The shelving picture makes me think of John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness. Who can say why?

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 11, 2024 09:16 AM (q3u5l)

26 One of the books on my summer reading list is To the Edge of the World by Christian Wolmar. He is one of the foremost rail historians in the world, and here he tackles the biggest railroad on the planet, the Trans Siberian Express. To note that it is the longest and most difficult railroad is an understatement. It is longer than the US and Canadian transcontinental lines combined, and large portions are built on permafrost. Having been to Siberia, I can relate to the terrain and difficult soil. The route covers 5750 miles, hundreds of bridges and tunnels, and multiple time zones. Before the line, a trip from Vladivostok to Moscow could easily take a year, and now it takes the better part of a week.

Wolmar covers the history of Siberian emigration (voluntary and involuntary), the difficulty of Siberian travel, the building of the line, its use in WWI and the revolution and WWII, as well as the upgrades that did not end until 2012. The Trans Siberian took an enormous amount of money as well as time and lives, and can arguably be said to have contributed to the downfall of the Tsar as well as the USSR, since the final reroute was undertaken by Brezhnev but not completed until Putin.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at August 11, 2024 09:16 AM (Oz+em)

27 OMG.
Forgot pants.
BRB

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 11, 2024 09:17 AM (t/2Uw)

28 Scarier than the cylinder of the anti God that was some wierdness carpenter tapped into

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at August 11, 2024 09:19 AM (PXvVL)

29 Not really sure what Dimitri Volkogonovwas, a representative of somewhere. But he is sure Leninism is done. But I am sure the Cultural Marxists are game to try again.

Posted by: Skip at August 11, 2024 09:19 AM (fwDg9)

30 Hmmm, my cat seems to enjoy the writing experience, especially in cool weather. This morning is chilly, and she's happily snuggled up near my feat.

But she is also asleep, so maybe not interested.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 09:19 AM (llXky)

31 "Its possible, but wouldn't the smart ones be the most likely to survive?
Posted by: Thomas Paine"
********
Just maybe we are the smart ones.

Posted by: Cosda at August 11, 2024 09:20 AM (lxVjt)

32 Although it clocks in at a little over 1100 pages, I just finished (it took me about 2 months spare time) William Shirer's Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Although it mainly focuses on Hitler's rise and then the military strategy involved in his conquering of Europe, it does spend a fair amount of time on his Jewish pogroms and his insane plans for Eastern Europe peoples, including Russians/Slavs to become total slaves to the German people. Shirer does not get into the nitty gritty on the concentration camp horrors as such, but I guess the book would've been 2000+ pages had he done that. There's also a bit dedicated to the "conspirators" who, over the years, tried to kill him, with most emphasis on the Valkyrie plot. Overall, if you're interested in the machinations behind this madman's plans, his personality, and the main players of evil, weak and similarly madmen surrounding him, it's well worth the read.

Posted by: Lady in Black at August 11, 2024 09:20 AM (mupln)

33 Its possible, but wouldn't the smart ones be the most likely to survive?
_____

I'm going by faulty memory, the theory is that the survivors were both from the advanced civilization and primitives. The remaining civilized traveled the world to teach the primitives construction and agriculture. There are similarities in legends and buildings around the world - Malta, Turkey, Indonesia, Egypt, Americas. There are holes in the theory, and discrepancies in dating of structures. Even so, seems like a possibility to me.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at August 11, 2024 09:21 AM (fs1hN)

34 He was a Kgb general hiss was recruited by the gru he pretended not to knoe that in 92

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at August 11, 2024 09:21 AM (PXvVL)

35 Still trying to psych myself up for a dive into the Maigret novels; ditto Don Robertson's mondo Civil War novel The River and the Wilderness. Instead this week have been picking through some short stories by James Tiptree Jr and Philip K. Dick and a few of Barry Malzberg's essays.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 11, 2024 09:22 AM (q3u5l)

36 I highly recommend Dean Koontz's "The Watchers." It is still probably most Koontz fans favorite

Posted by: Nick in PA at August 11, 2024 09:23 AM (ekh6r)

37 "A pile...of used-kid novels."

Somebody here shows a distressingly deep understanding of the new genres of Kiddie Lit. Because an awful-lot of juvenile fiction is now written about just that: used kids.

See what rolling that hyphen around can do to the rhetoric?
Mind you I'm not complaining. It cuts to the bone.

Posted by: Way,Way Downriver at August 11, 2024 09:23 AM (zdLoL)

38 Posted by: Lady in Black at August 11, 2024 09:20 AM (mupln)

I read that about 10 years ago. It should be required reading for HS students.

Yeah, I know they won't.

Posted by: dantesed at August 11, 2024 09:24 AM (Oy/m2)

39 When people talk about "advanced civilizations" in the deep past, there always seems to be an element of the shell game going on. Do they mean "advanced" in the sense of classical Athens? Or "advanced" in the sense of modern Japan?

Often it seems to vary within the same book or video. When you want to handwave away the lack of physical artifacts, the ancient civilizations are Iron Age farmers at best. But when you want to "explain" ancient myths about flying ships or wars in Heaven, all of a sudden they're capable of futuristic super-science.

I can believe that the long forgotten history of humanity has room for some lost agricultural civilizations, but I can't believe anything more advanced than sails and spears.

Posted by: Trimegistus at August 11, 2024 09:24 AM (78a2H)

40 Good morning horde. Thanks Perfessor. Working through a non-fiction book about the Argentina sovereign debt default saga (2001 et seq). Will provide summary when done. Emotional damage disclaimer acknowledged and confirmed.

Posted by: TRex at August 11, 2024 09:25 AM (IQ6Gq)

41 Sharon go put some on, we will wait

Posted by: Skip at August 11, 2024 09:25 AM (fwDg9)

42 Voice recognition software for these comments leaves a bit to be desired, especially since it's a thread about, you know, writing and editing...

Posted by: Not that there's anything wrong with that at August 11, 2024 09:26 AM (dg+HA)

43 I finished The Big Sleep and as a result I have a new entry in the list of Books Worse Than the Movie. Other entrants are Jaws, M*A*S*H and Last of the Mohicans.

The plot in the book is a bit more coherent, but the conclusion is extremely contrived. I believe I actually rolled my eyes after reading it.

While the film adaptation's story is muddled, it is more than compensated for by the mood, music and superlative acting. From smokeshow bookshop girls to the various hoodlums and their takes, it's a joy to watch.

I give the book credit for being darker and the running anti-gay commentary by Marlowe is a hoot, but Bogart inhabits the role and boosting Bacall's character was the right play for the film.

Verdict: Not reading any more Chandler, really enjoyed re-watching the film yet again.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 09:26 AM (llXky)

44 Perfessor,

Thanks for the precis on the Tad Williams books. It sounds hopeful so I will start to assemble the series with trips to the used book store. (It'll be tough to force myself to go there but I'll buck up and do it.)

Posted by: JTB at August 11, 2024 09:27 AM (zudum)

45 @32 There exists a much shorter Shirer, "The Rise And Fall of Adolf Hitler," only 188 pages but based on the same documentation. It was a SBS classroom catalog choice in the early 60's, and a young fellow could get in a heap of trouble by just checking that box on the order form.

Posted by: Way,Way Downriver at August 11, 2024 09:28 AM (zdLoL)

46 Lady in Black- read that a few years ago, certainly a good read. But my take was he wrote more of first hand experience pre war and post war what he experienced more than a historical account of events.
As many would have been in tje period he was a Socialist other have pointed out

Posted by: Skip at August 11, 2024 09:28 AM (fwDg9)

47 I read Blackbird Oracle by Deborah Harkness this week. It is the fifth book in her Discovery of Witches world. The first book holds a special place in my heart as it was the first time a review of mine was recognized on the main page. I dove into the series with a passion and was thrilled when the books were turned into an incredibly well done TV series with actors who looked exactly how I envisioned them.
Sadly, this book did not live up to the first three. The fourth book followed a secondary character and was okay but I was awaiting the return of Diana and Mathew and the rest of the family.
Continued.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 11, 2024 09:30 AM (t/2Uw)

48 Morning, book folken! For a change I'm writing at a (chain, but nice) coffee shop near my house.

This week I've been reading The Song of Kali, Dan Simmons's debut novel from 1985. It is fascinating and horrifying all at once. I'm not sure yet if there are to be any supernatural elements to it, but it's scary enough. I'll say only this: If you were contemplating a trip to India, read this book first. You will swiftly change your mind. (And this was written forty years ago. I can only imagine that Calcutta, the scene of the novel, has gotten far worse since then.)

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 09:30 AM (4COyr)

49 Civilizations advanced enough to teach/enslave the primitives to build ancient megalithic that appear to be oriented to the stars.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at August 11, 2024 09:30 AM (fs1hN)

50 Downriver: I'm surprised you could get into trouble for ordering that book about the NSDAP and Mr. Shouty. In my middle school that book, or one very like it, was _required_ for the history class.

How can you guard against the rise of totalitarian movements if you don't know their history?

Posted by: Trimegistus at August 11, 2024 09:33 AM (78a2H)

51 Verdict: Not reading any more Chandler, really enjoyed re-watching the film yet again.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024

***
His second, Farewell, My Lovely, is a better novel and mystery. So is Lady in the Lake. And his novelette "Red Wind" is one of the classics of the hard-boiled mystery field. Don't give up on Chandler until you read at least that one.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 09:33 AM (4COyr)

52 I've seen that interview with Tolkien. It only took a minute for me to want to punch that smug pseudo-intellectual interviewer. He had his questions and attitudes before it began. Tolkien could have recited from the Canterbury Tales in Middle English and the idiot wouldn't have noticed and just kept spewing his preconceived notions.

Posted by: JTB at August 11, 2024 09:35 AM (zudum)

53 I thought so

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at August 11, 2024 09:35 AM (PXvVL)

54 "Ray Bradbury's The Martian Chronicles and Clifford Simak's City are simply a series of loosely connected short stories, even though both books are sometimes called "novels." "

True, Perfesser, and when I read one of such things, it gets entered in the Reading List Notebook as a "story cycle." I rather enjoy the format, as it reminds me of old-fashioned episodic television. The finest one I ever read is "Vermilion Sands," J.G. Ballard's exploration of the possible futures of the fine arts through visits to a seedy resort/artists' colony in an indeterminate time and place. Gorgeous, and not nearly as dark as most of his work.

Posted by: werewife, princess of Delray Beach at August 11, 2024 09:35 AM (wwf+q)

55 I never made it through 'Prince of Darkness'. Something always made me give up and put 'Big Trouble in Little China's in the player instead.

Posted by: Brewingfrog at August 11, 2024 09:35 AM (Qnwun)

56 Wolmar covers the history of Siberian emigration (voluntary and involuntary), the difficulty of Siberian travel, the building of the line, its use in WWI and the revolution and WWII, as well as the upgrades that did not end until 2012. The Trans Siberian took an enormous amount of money as well as time and lives, and can arguably be said to have contributed to the downfall of the Tsar as well as the USSR, since the final reroute was undertaken by Brezhnev but not completed until Putin.
Posted by: Thomas Paine
---
Briefly delurking to thank you for this. My dream is to ride the Trans-Siberian from Moscow to Vladivostok. This dream is out of reach for me, so I'll content myself with reading about it.

Posted by: screaming in digital at August 11, 2024 09:36 AM (iZbyp)

57 About harkness

And the adaptation of the chandler stories

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at August 11, 2024 09:36 AM (PXvVL)

58 @39 the ancient civilizations are Iron Age farmers at best.

Aww. Some of my best friends have been Iron Age farmers -- and had the hardware to prove it. If I'm very good, I might end up an Iron Age farmer when I grow up.

Posted by: Way,Way Downriver at August 11, 2024 09:37 AM (zdLoL)

59 Lloyd: I guess we will have to disagree vehemently about _The Big Sleep_. I like book and movie about equally well.

As a story it's very neatly put together, with one mystery hidden inside a completely different mystery, so that Marlowe has to figure out who's covering up what.

Posted by: Trimegistus at August 11, 2024 09:37 AM (78a2H)

60 I'm willing to keep an open mind about the theory of an advanced human civilization mostly wiped out in the Younger Dryas rapid cooling/warming floods.

Posted by: Chuck Martel
*
Its possible, but wouldn't the smart ones be the most likely to survive?
Posted by: Thomas Paine at August 11, 2024

***
Yes; they got away, spread their genes among the less-intelligent population, and added their stories to those peoples' folklore. Thus the tales of The Days When Magic Worked and The Flood That Destroyed Everything.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 09:37 AM (4COyr)

61 Civilizations advanced enough to teach/enslave the primitives to build ancient megalithic that appear to be oriented to the stars.
Posted by: Chuck Martel

They would have to do a lot of travelling, since the calendars are found on just about every continent.

My theory is that every culture that didn't migrate to follow a food source built calendars as a necessity in order to plan their life cycle.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at August 11, 2024 09:38 AM (Oz+em)

62 The book is narrated and seen almost entirely from Diana's point of view. Because Mathew has been relegated to almost a minor role, the book lacks the passion of the previous books. It is all about the witches who can be petty and mean and forgoing the balance and spice the vampires and daemons added to the story.
There is not a lot of action and when the story finally gets interesting at the end with an unexpected twist, Harkness ends the book abruptly letting you know this was really only the first half of the book.
Sigh. Disappointed.
Seems to be a lot of that going around.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 11, 2024 09:38 AM (t/2Uw)

63 Graham Hancock is dismissed by all the right people as a crank. Maybe he is. Some of his scientist detractors though also.seem to be cranks, or at least act suspiciously. Hancock has short Netflix series, judge for yourself, or not.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at August 11, 2024 09:39 AM (fs1hN)

64 Ray Bradbury's The Martian Chronicles and Clifford Simak's City are simply a series of loosely connected short stories, even though both books are sometimes called "novels."

***
I guess we'd call them "fix-ups" today. The City short stories had appeared in Campbell's Astounding prior to their collection.

The tale with the director of the Jupiter colony, who has brought his dog along, contains one of the neatest scenes in all fiction.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 09:40 AM (4COyr)

65 Don't recall seeing that abridged Shirer, but had a paperback Rise & Fall etc in high school. Wasn't required reading, but never got in any trouble carting it around. Not sure I'd care to be a high-schooler carting it around today, though.

Sometimes I amuse myself thinking about future 'civilizations' looking at things like Mt. Rushmore or the Washington Monument or the Hoover Dam or assorted skyscrapers and wondering how on earth those primitive could do such things. Think I ran across a comment by Elon Musk this week to the effect that we had to get a lot of spaceships built before we forget how to build 'em -- I found that comment just a tad bone-chilling.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 11, 2024 09:41 AM (q3u5l)

66 I got my copy of "The Paintings of JRR Tolkien". Hardcover in a slip case and nicely done. I have other books with his drawings and illustrations but this one included a number that haven't been published since the Tolkien calendars of the 1970s. The quality of the printing has also improved over the years.

I have a number of books that our nieces and nephews have expressed interest in inheriting. (Glad they are willing to wait.) This will be one of them.

Posted by: JTB at August 11, 2024 09:41 AM (zudum)

67 @50 One was very fortunate that the school principal had the same view you hold. I'll note, though, that this was fourth grade, not middle school, in the first generation of early-hire teachers who'd been taught that everything in life was "age-appropriate."

They did have the SRA reading-comprehension library, which they broke out just for me (the teachers considered it a failed experiment), and that was my salvation for a year or two.

Posted by: Way,Way Downriver at August 11, 2024 09:42 AM (zdLoL)

68 Haven't done any reading the last two weeks due to ongoing home improvement projects turning my life upside down. But that's over now, so I hope to get back to my book shortly.

Posted by: Don Black wore gym shorts and hopes that is okay at August 11, 2024 09:42 AM (/7KEl)

69 I'm kind of a connoisseur of crackpottery and I confess I found Hancock disappointing. Little more than warmed-over Von Daniken without the space aliens. He relies very heavily on the elision from "could have" to "might have" to "did," and preserves his "credibility" by implying more than he's willing to come out and say.

Posted by: Trimegistus at August 11, 2024 09:42 AM (78a2H)

70 Thanks Skip. I did feel better and my legs weren't sticking to the chair anymore.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 11, 2024 09:43 AM (t/2Uw)

71 Briefly delurking to thank you for this. My dream is to ride the Trans-Siberian from Moscow to Vladivostok. This dream is out of reach for me, so I'll content myself with reading about it.
Posted by: screaming in digital

It is a very interesting book. He covers a lot of ground, so it is not just a train book. Siberia is a fascinating place.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at August 11, 2024 09:44 AM (Oz+em)

72 After reading Red Phoenix by Larry Bond, I finished Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy.

Red Phoenix is a better story.

Red Storm Rising mirrors my service concerns in the 1980s. It is set in the Op Area of my first two USN ships, and was formative to a tad of my tactical thinking. Looking back on that story, I can see the flaws clearly, and am glad I did not have to fight that war.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at August 11, 2024 09:46 AM (u82oZ)

73 It was a good week for articles and recipes. The latest issue of Fly Tyer arrived. Even when the patterns aren't ones I would use, the info on the materials and techniques is enjoyable. Makes for pleasant reading.

We have a number of recipe booklets, some going back to the 1940s, which are fun to go through. Part is nostalgia since they include dishes not often seen these days. An especially dangerous one is a series of cookie recipes by Pillsbury. It's giving me ideas. (Cue the dramatic music.)

Posted by: JTB at August 11, 2024 09:47 AM (zudum)

74 Good morning.

I'm going to cross the thread streams a bit.

I've started reading Hornady's reloading manual. I give the editor of the manual some credit for writing technical stuff in a readable manner.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 11, 2024 09:48 AM (tT6L1)

75 Don't recall seeing that abridged Shirer, but had a paperback Rise & Fall etc in high school.

I remember reading Rise and Fall in high school and that's literally all I remember about it -- that I read it.

Posted by: Oddbob at August 11, 2024 09:48 AM (/y8xj)

76 I'm not trying to stop anyone from taking their dream trip by train, but I do urge you to read Paul Theroux's book _The Great Railway Bazaar._ He bummed around Asia by train in the 1970s, and returned to Europe via the Trans-Siberian. His description of that leg of his journey is nothing but boredom and discomfort mitigated by vodka. Admittedly, this was during the Brezhnev era of the Soviet Union, when everything was at its most squalid, but has it really changed?

Posted by: Trimegistus at August 11, 2024 09:48 AM (78a2H)

77 "I started reading Hemingway's A Farewell To Arms, "

That sounds horrid.

Posted by: Michelle Fields at August 11, 2024 09:48 AM (vFG9F)

78 Currently reading Team Yankee, by Harold Coyle.

Well done and entertaining. Another scenario I want to play in a war game, but not live through.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at August 11, 2024 09:49 AM (u82oZ)

79 Lady in Black- read that a few years ago, certainly a good read. But my take was he wrote more of first hand experience pre war and post war what he experienced more than a historical account of events.

--

Yes, he lived through those years while a writer living in Berlin, so he did bring a unique perspective. He seemed to also have done a pretty deep dive into the Reich papers left behind after the liberation, which certainly opened the window into what went on behind the scenes apart from his personal perspective living there at the time. Interestingly, at the end, he says his book was not well-received by German audiences. I guess they didn't like being reminded of what they let go on right under their noses.

Posted by: Lady in Black at August 11, 2024 09:49 AM (mupln)

80 71 Briefly delurking to thank you for this. My dream is to ride the Trans-Siberian from Moscow to Vladivostok. This dream is out of reach for me, so I'll content myself with reading about it.
Posted by: screaming in digital

SiD, have you read The Big Red Train Ride, by Eric Newby?

Also, you might find these videos interesting:

https://is.gd/WgHouH

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at August 11, 2024 09:50 AM (PiwSw)

81 Disclaimer: No Morons were physically harmed in the making of this Sunday Morning Book Thread. Tremendous emotional damage was wrought throughout the Moron Horde, however...
Posted by: Open Blogger at 09:00 AM

Wait until we figure out how to physically traverse through the cloud as easily as we transmit sequenced ones and zeros. Gird your loins, and any other body part of which you are particularly fond, the day is coming.

(Hey, that almost sounds like the germ of a story idea.)

Posted by: tankdemon at August 11, 2024 09:50 AM (VSht7)

82 Thx "Perfessor". I read Peter Hamilton's Confederation books. Great reads but they are dense. Have to give the new one a shot

Posted by: Smell the Glove at August 11, 2024 09:51 AM (oqWMC)

83 I loved Jim Kjelgaard books when I was in grade school, and I never noticed that they were a series of vignettes. I would argue that a lot of literature is made up of those sort of vignette books, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales comes to mind, and Twain's Roughing It, and they are not strictly children's books. I think that is how we naturally see the world, or at least remember it.
I think the directed narrative, continuous plot and action to achieve a single story arc is more of a theatrical development, Like Shakespeare's five act plays, where the point was to tell the entire story in 140 minutes

Posted by: Kindltot at August 11, 2024 09:51 AM (D7oie)

84 I did not realize SMOD's running mate was supervising Ace's shelving, oops, sorry, Sh3lving Proj3ct.

Posted by: tankdemon at August 11, 2024 09:52 AM (VSht7)

85 I can't disagree more with AHL about the movie the Big Sleep versus the book but we've had this discussion before and I think it boils down to Bogart and Bacall. Men love Bacall and the women on the big screen. Bogart disappointed me because whatever charisma he exuded in real life is lost in black and white. Just did not get sexy hard boiled detective from pasty white nerdy looking Bogart.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 11, 2024 09:52 AM (t/2Uw)

86 they have revealed themselves a shill for certain intellectual properties that have been destroyed by wokeness (**cough**Amazon's Wheel of Time/Rings of Power**cough**)
______

I would have watched WoT past season 1 (I don't even know if season 2 is out yet, how little I care) even with all the changes from the books, if the show writers had fashioned an alternative story that made sense for the characters, motivations and dialogue. But they couldn't do that. I didn't waste my time on even one episode for RoP idiocy

Posted by: Chuck Martel at August 11, 2024 09:53 AM (fs1hN)

87 I finished "The Coast Watchers" after last week's thread. Recommended for those interested in WW2 in general and/or military radio communications. The book ends with a sort of "where are they now?" chapter describing the lives of many of the key players after the war ended.

I downloaded "The Troubles" by Tim Pat Coogan yesterday; haven't gotten around to starting it yet. I know just a little bit about the IRA, Sinn Fein, etc, but have never done a deep dive on Northern Ireland. Given where things could be heading in this country, it might be nice to have a road map. I do still have my copy of "Total Resistance" by H. Von Dach.

Posted by: PabloD at August 11, 2024 09:53 AM (nbhYK)

88 Oh, and I finished Clarke's Imperial Earth. IN many ways it's more impressive than his Enormous Big Thing novel, Rendezvous With Rama. It covers not only the hero's life on the Titan colony, but his trip to Earth and his examination of, and exposure to, 23rd-Century world culture, so different from Titan's. As are the atmosphere, animals, and gravity of Earth, which he has to get used to. It's more than a travelogue; there's a mystery, some political movements, wrapped within it.

In some ways it reminds me of one of Larry Niven's best early stories, "Flatlander," in which Beowulf Shaeffer visits and is dazzled by elements of 26th-Century Earth, but also takes a star trip to investigate a mysterious protosun that is cutting at high speed through Known Space. He wrote this some eight years before Clarke's novel, though.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 09:53 AM (4COyr)

89 And I really liked the ending of the book. Thought it explained a lot.
Weird how we can have two such opposing takes on watching the same book and movie.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 11, 2024 09:54 AM (t/2Uw)

90 @Lady in Black, early on in "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" Shirer details the methods used by Hitler in his rise to power.

Those methods are currently employed by the left in this country.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 11, 2024 09:54 AM (tT6L1)

91 Admittedly, this was during the Brezhnev era of the Soviet Union, when everything was at its most squalid, but has it really changed?
Posted by: Trimegistus

I haven't ridden the express, but I have been there a few times, all after the fall of the USSR. It has changed dramatically.. Yes, there is still some squalor, but they have been coming out of three generations of total government control, and it takes a while.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at August 11, 2024 09:54 AM (Oz+em)

92 Posted by: Lady in Black at August 11, 2024 09:20 AM (mupln)

I read that about 10 years ago. It should be required reading for HS students.

Yeah, I know they won't.
Posted by: dantesed at August 11, 2024 09:24 AM (Oy/m2)

Why? They'd only be told that this book is the story of Trump, too.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 11, 2024 09:54 AM (0eaVi)

93 "Notes On Your Sudden Disappearance" by Alison Espach Is about how a family deals with a daughter's death in an auto accident. The POV is from the 13-year-old sister's perspective as she describes the unraveling and knitting back together over the years. Poignantly observant and often very funny in a gallows humor way.

Right now I'm on the back porch enjoying the cool weather and cracking open "The Best of Larry Niven". It has all the hits, including "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex".

Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 11, 2024 09:55 AM (kpS4V)

94 "Just maybe we are the smart ones."

I rate this as unlikely.

Posted by: Pupster at August 11, 2024 09:55 AM (DuqHK)

95 74 ... "I've started reading Hornady's reloading manual. I give the editor of the manual some credit for writing technical stuff in a readable manner."

Blake,
If you interested in reloading ammo in general, Guns and Ammo magazine recently released "Shooting Iron: Thumb Bustin’ Musings From Mike "Duke" Venturino". It's a collection of his articles over the last 20 years. He's another one who could make the reloading process understandable and fun. He passed away recently and will be missed.

Posted by: JTB at August 11, 2024 09:55 AM (zudum)

96 There exists a much shorter Shirer, "The Rise And Fall of Adolf Hitler," only 188 pages but based on the same documentation. It was a SBS classroom catalog choice in the early 60's, and a young fellow could get in a heap of trouble by just checking that box on the order form.
Posted by: Way,Way Downriver at August 11, 2024

***
That one sounds much more accessible . . . if I can find a copy. Off to AbeBooks or ThriftBooks, I guess.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 09:56 AM (4COyr)

97 Oddbob,

Re recollection of Shirer's R&F etc.

Same here. I remember that I read it, but have retained no details.

I've been finding that with more and more books, movies, etc, lately. Titles, authors, sometimes scenes & bits of dialog, but would have a hard time describing the plot details or much of the information in the nonfic titles.

Was it Maugham, Forster -- well, somebody or other -- who said the only thing pleasant about losing one's memory was that you could reread old favorites with the same sense of breathless anticipation.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 11, 2024 09:57 AM (q3u5l)

98 @JTB, thank you for the recommendaion.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 11, 2024 09:58 AM (tT6L1)

99 Its possible, but wouldn't the smart ones be the most likely to survive?
Posted by: Thomas Paine at August 11, 2024 09:10 AM (Oz+em)

The H. Beam Piper stories from the Sword Worlds period of the Terro-Humano History mused a bit on that, how societies decivilize, Piper felt if you destroyed enough of the specialized tech and the people who make it you can't keep a modern society running; kill enough people and you don't have enough hands to keep a complex system running no matter what records and tolls you have.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 11, 2024 09:59 AM (D7oie)

100 Right now I'm on the back porch enjoying the cool weather and cracking open "The Best of Larry Niven". It has all the hits, including "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex".
Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 11, 2024

***
What else is in that collection? Any LN fan has his list of "best," I know. Probably "Neutron Star" and "At the Core" for sure. I Love "Flatlander" and "Not Long Before the End," too.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 10:00 AM (4COyr)

101 I wasn't going to say anything being a gentleman and all. . . .

Posted by: Tonypete at August 11, 2024 10:00 AM (WXNFJ)

102 Halfway through Perelandra in Lewis's Space Trilogy. Very appreciative of the morons who suggested I read all three instead of starting at That Hideous Strength. As always, Lewis never disappoints me. Thanks for your consistent efforts Professor. Off to do chores and head to church.

Posted by: Sock Monkey * unburdened at August 11, 2024 10:01 AM (thnrs)

103 You'll have to excuse me - having finished my first cup yet.

Posted by: Tonypete at August 11, 2024 10:02 AM (WXNFJ)

104 SiD, have you read The Big Red Train Ride, by Eric Newby?

Also, you might find these videos interesting:

https://is.gd/WgHouH
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes
---
I have not! Thanks for both recommendations.

Posted by: screaming in digital at August 11, 2024 10:02 AM (iZbyp)

105 Speaking of arctic adventures, I just returned from summer vacation in Alaska, and thanks to the recent solar storms got to see the northern lights in person in summertime. What an incredible phenomenon.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at August 11, 2024 10:03 AM (Oz+em)

106 'haven't'

Sheesh.

Posted by: Tonypete at August 11, 2024 10:03 AM (WXNFJ)

107 I've started reading Hornady's reloading manual. I give the editor of the manual some credit for writing technical stuff in a readable manner.
Posted by: blake
====
The mos idiosyncratic reloading manual is Lee's Reloading manuals. The actual reloading tables come from the various powder manufacturers and is fairly mundane. But, the Lee manual does not discriminate on the basis of projectiles, etc. like the Hornady, Speer, Sierra, Nosler do nor does it discriminate on powder like the Vihtavuori, Norma, Hodgdon, Alliant, etc.

If you have a Lee powder measure or their primitive scoops, it gives safe information which to use (which are also included with the die sets as a sheet for that cartridge).

The more interesting part of the Lee Reloading manual is Old Man Lee's contemplation on reduced loads for rifles, his cast bullet section, and his explanation of how he developed his presses. The latest editions have his son discussing new Lee presses, etc and tweaks for using them.

Probably only Lyman's series of reloading manuals are as informative and they spend time plumping their hardware too but are not projectile nor powder specific as the other main reloading manuals are.

Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 10:03 AM (qdbNv)

108 You'd have to look on Amazon, Wolfie, but it's a doorstop!

Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 11, 2024 10:03 AM (kpS4V)

109 Niven's 'Inconstant Moon' is delightful too (think they may have done an adaptation for the newer Outer Limits, but the story's a lot better).

Didn't he have a piece on why time travel is impossible? Seem to remember that from one of his collections.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 11, 2024 10:04 AM (q3u5l)

110 And I really liked the ending of the book. Thought it explained a lot.
Weird how we can have two such opposing takes on watching the same book and movie.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 11, 2024 09:54 AM (t/2Uw)
---
It did explain a lot, but I felt it wasn't earned.

To put it another way, the film felt like it was a detective story that ran off the rails - the case turned into a quest for a dame (Bacall). I mean, that's what the writers did, and it works.

The film also has that 40s vibe that I love, and incidental music, the small details of dialog, the vanished world - that goes a long way.

Books of course can be evocative, but Chandler's writing, which is quite repetitive, just wasn't there. For example, Waugh is hard to adapt because his writing is so damn good. The Jeremy Irons adaptation of Brideshead works because they used Irons for narration from the book.

Obviously, tastes differ, and I'll take a glance at other Chandler books.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 10:05 AM (llXky)

111 You'd have to look on Amazon, Wolfie, but it's a doorstop!
Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 11, 2024

***
The Best of collection? That's encouraging. They man has been writing for sixty years this year. I would hate to see his output scrooched down to ten or fifteen stories only.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 10:05 AM (4COyr)

112 Thanks for the reference to A Canticle for Liebowitz.

Several years ago I wrote a short story for an anthology and a reviewer compared my story to Canticle. I couldn't see it, to me it was a way of getting rid of a character who was haunting me: Take that! Now are you satisfied? Leave me alone.

But he did not leave me alone. Several novels later I can see clearly that I have been following that path. Thank you.

Posted by: Wenda at August 11, 2024 10:06 AM (CuWn8)

113 Eris, have the door open and fresh air coming in for the first time in months. Feels good. So I get whee you're at.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 11, 2024 10:07 AM (t/2Uw)

114 The H. Beam Piper stories from the Sword Worlds period of the Terro-Humano History mused a bit on that, how societies decivilize, Piper felt if you destroyed enough of the specialized tech and the people who make it you can't keep a modern society running; kill enough people and you don't have enough hands to keep a complex system running no matter what records and tolls you have.
Posted by: Kindltot
=======
It was a theme for Piper throughout his works including his short story collection Empire and his pre history (using Freya) of exactly how Freyans were able to intermarry with Terrans. The answer is both Terrans and Freyans originated from a previous civilization based on Mars.

We had a tragic loss of a great sci fi writer when Piper killed himself. He was reduced to severe poverty due to his agent dying leaving his affairs in a mess and he was too proud to ask assistance. There were actually several pending sales of Piper manuscripts that the agent made that Piper never was aware of.

Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 10:07 AM (qdbNv)

115 the Long Goodbye is a great Chandler novel but if you want some very punchy Chandler stories read the collection The Simple Art of Murder, which is an anthology of the original short stories Chandler wrote for the pulps and later mined for his novels

Posted by: Kindltot at August 11, 2024 10:07 AM (D7oie)

116 WTH am I looking at?

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 11, 2024 10:08 AM (8KZLC)

117 who can recommend a good biography of Eisenhower

Posted by: Don Black wore gym shorts and hopes that is okay at August 11, 2024 10:08 AM (/7KEl)

118 Getting titles & contents for sf/fantasy/horror --

Bookmark this: isfdb.org

Searchable by author, fiction title, etc. For anyone trying to track down where a story appeared or contents of a collection, this site's a freakin' godsend.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 11, 2024 10:09 AM (q3u5l)

119 There's a story of Niven's from early on that has never been in any of his collections. It involves teleportation, "By Mind Alone" (that's the title too). And it ends with a natural conclusion from the rules set up for teleportation in the story -- and yet comes as a whopper of an unsettling surprise. Almost a horror story in some ways. I have it in a magazine, a copy of If: Worlds of Tomorrow, that I found years ago at a convention. (I also have the magazine version of "Flatlander" in another issue. There are a few line differences, but the illustrations are great.)

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 10:10 AM (4COyr)

120 I've noticed over the last few years that my attention span for reading seems reduced. Too used to information coming in snippets, brief YT videos and giving in to distractions: breaking news, email coming in, sometimes even TV shows. (That last one is especially embarrassing.) I miss those times when I got lost in a story for hours.

I'm getting out my copy of "The Count of Monte Cristo", all thousand-plus pages. It is the translation by Robin Buss. Unabridged and considered the closest to the Dumas original text. No abridged versions and especially no softening by Victorian era translations which are an abomination. It won't be a fast read as I want to savor the writing and story. But I don't want to do it in ten minute segments either. I am seriously looking forward to it. I also want to get lost in the book to the extent I can forget the many film versions of the book I've seen over the years.

A proper translation of a book can make all the difference. When I found the translation of "20,00 Leagues Under the Sea" published by the Naval Institute press, Jules Verne really came alive for me. The Disney versions suck.

Posted by: JTB at August 11, 2024 10:10 AM (zudum)

121 Currently reading Team Yankee, by Harold Coyle.

Well done and entertaining. Another scenario I want to play in a war game, but not live through.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at August 11, 2024 09:49 AM (u82oZ)
---
I believe Team Yankee also inspired a board game. I had both the book and the game. About 20 years ago I sold 80% of my game collection and piles of books to clear out some space. Some here may be aghast, but it was the right call. The games I kept were worth keeping and the ones I got rid of made room for better stuff.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 10:10 AM (llXky)

122 Blake,
If you interested in reloading ammo in general, Guns and Ammo magazine recently released "Shooting Iron: Thumb Bustin’ Musings From Mike "Duke" Venturino". It's a collection of his articles over the last 20 years. He's another one who could make the reloading process understandable and fun. He passed away recently and will be missed.
Posted by: JTB
=======
Guns Magazine where Venturino spent most of his career as a gun writer, has free teaser articles from past editions sent out as emails. I get them at least once per week free even though I am a former subscriber.

Venturino was an authoritative voice on Old West firearms and was a long time competitor in distance black powder shooting. He was an avid caster of bullets too which makes a lot of his musing very pertinent to those shooting historical firearms.

He'll be missed.

Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 10:12 AM (qdbNv)

123 I'm not trying to stop anyone from taking their dream trip by train, but I do urge you to read Paul Theroux's book _The Great Railway Bazaar._ He bummed around Asia by train in the 1970s, and returned to Europe via the Trans-Siberian. His description of that leg of his journey is nothing but boredom and discomfort mitigated by vodka. Admittedly, this was during the Brezhnev era of the Soviet Union, when everything was at its most squalid, but has it really changed?
Posted by: Trimegistus
---
I have a little experience traveling by train in Russia (1996 and 200

. I enjoyed it very much. The Russian countryside is lovely, at least the parts I saw. And I really, really want to see Lake Baikal someday.

Although I'm not a very experienced traveler, I've found there is usually something interesting almost anywhere you go. Some places you just have to look a little harder for it.

Back to lurking (again)

Posted by: screaming in digital at August 11, 2024 10:12 AM (iZbyp)

124 At end of the biography of Lenin, Vologonov goes through how the rest of the Soviet Union General Secretaries tries to start over with Lenism, but it ran out of ideas that never were going to work.

Posted by: Skip at August 11, 2024 10:12 AM (fwDg9)

125 *sigh*

2008

Posted by: screaming in digital at August 11, 2024 10:13 AM (iZbyp)

126 Have read a lot of sf but somehow never got around to Piper.

The notion that if you lose enough people you can't keep anything running sounds on the mark -- you'd think those who want to reduce the population to under a billion would consider that. (Oh, who am I kidding?)

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 11, 2024 10:13 AM (q3u5l)

127 118 who can recommend a good biography of Eisenhower
Posted by: Don Black
=====
Military or as a person. Stephen Ambrose wrote a decent autobiography of Ike including his political career. Carlo D' Este wrote a biography more slanted to Ike's military career (as to be expected as Carlo D' Este was a career military historian).

Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 10:14 AM (qdbNv)

128 who can recommend a good biography of Eisenhower
Posted by: Don Black

'The Age of Eisenhower' was recommended to me, but I have not read it yet.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at August 11, 2024 10:14 AM (Oz+em)

129 I've seen that interview with Tolkien. It only took a minute for me to want to punch that smug pseudo-intellectual interviewer. He had his questions and attitudes before it began. Tolkien could have recited from the Canterbury Tales in Middle English and the idiot wouldn't have noticed and just kept spewing his preconceived notions.
Posted by: JTB at August 11, 2024 09:35 AM (zudum)
---
People of a certain age will recall that for a long time LotR was derided as juvenile trash. Tolkien was a pioneer, but derided by the literary establishment.

It seems strange now, but Tolkien was once a fringe thing and theologically suspect. One of the authors at First Things has an article about how 1980s Protestants considered his books demonic and one step away from witchcraft.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 10:15 AM (llXky)

130 I've been watching a YouTube channel called Unraveling Words. It's about the history of Words.
I find etymology fascinating. Or maybe it's entomology.

Posted by: Northernlurker , wondering where his phone is at August 11, 2024 10:16 AM (FfSAJ)

131 107 ... "The more interesting part of the Lee Reloading manual is Old Man Lee's contemplation on reduced loads for rifles, his cast bullet section, and his explanation of how he developed his presses. The latest editions have his son discussing new Lee presses, etc and tweaks for using them."

whig,

Glad you mentioned that part of the Lee Manual. That was one of the things that got me interested in cast bullet reduced loads.

Posted by: JTB at August 11, 2024 10:16 AM (zudum)

132 I highly recommend Dean Koontz's "The Watchers." It is still probably most Koontz fans favorite
Posted by: Nick in PA

I used to bribe my daughters to read. I bribed one to read Watchers and my test question was who are the watchers?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I got 99 problems but Vance ain't one at August 11, 2024 10:16 AM (L/fGl)

133 One of the authors at First Things has an article about how 1980s Protestants considered his books demonic and one step away from witchcraft.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd

Well, Catholic so. . . . .

Posted by: Tonypete at August 11, 2024 10:17 AM (WXNFJ)

134 looking for the whole story on Ike

deep dive
I think he's interesting because he spans that era from WW2 to the dawn of the space age

Posted by: Don Black wore gym shorts and hopes that is okay at August 11, 2024 10:17 AM (/7KEl)

135 127 Have read a lot of sf but somehow never got around to Piper.

The notion that if you lose enough people you can't keep anything running sounds on the mark -- you'd think those who want to reduce the population to under a billion would consider that. (Oh, who am I kidding?)

Posted by: Just Some Guy
=====
Most of Piper's work is available at Project Gutenberg for free now. Copyright lapsed. Amazon carries some cheap ebook and print copies of some of his work and you can find some out there as used original paperbacks or the Ace editions circa about 1980 or so.

Strong historical bent to Piper's work. Jerry Pournelle was an friend to Piper late in life and you can find some of his observations about Piper on the Chaos Manor website maintained by Pournelle's sons.

Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 10:17 AM (qdbNv)

136 If you have a Lee powder measure or their primitive scoops, it gives safe information which to use (which are also included with the die sets as a sheet for that cartridge).

Nothing to do with the actual content of whig's comment, I'm just quoting it for the context. Ya know what might be a fun gun to thread topic? "Dumbest and Smartest Things I've Done In the Reloading Room."

Posted by: Oddbob at August 11, 2024 10:17 AM (/y8xj)

137 okay Ambrose I'll look for his book
I read his Band Of Brothers

Posted by: Don Black wore gym shorts and hopes that is okay at August 11, 2024 10:19 AM (/7KEl)

138 Good morning Hordemates.
After nearly forty years I finally laid down some coin and bought a book by Ralph Peters. The book is Red Army. Why so long? Ralph used to be one of my students at the Army's Intel School. A really obnoxious guy. But a really brilliant obnoxious guy. I had vowed never to buy on of his books. But as I had heard and read, he writes a good book. Red Army is a very good read and I console myself for buying it as I got it on sale. I recommend it to those who like to see how a war in Europe, NATO vs the Soviets might have been like.

Posted by: Diogenes at August 11, 2024 10:19 AM (W/lyH)

139 People of a certain age will recall that for a long time LotR was derided as juvenile trash. Tolkien was a pioneer, but derided by the literary establishment. . . .

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024

***
Fantasy and science fiction in general were considered by the cognoscenti, and the adults who were mesmerized by them, as juvenile escapist fare and not worthy of consideration as literature. If I'd tried to do a book report on, say, Ringworld when I was in school, or a more scholarly analysis of it in college, my teachers would have sneered or laughed.

I took a creative writing class in college and submitted several short SF stories. My teacher didn't sneer, but he wondered aloud if the average SF reader would be willing to take the time to read and appreciate the story. Clearly that was his view of SF fans in general: lazy and unwilling to read outside the field. (The latter part was true among fans I'd met.)

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 10:19 AM (4COyr)

140 whig,

Glad you mentioned that part of the Lee Manual. That was one of the things that got me interested in cast bullet reduced loads.
Posted by: JTB
------
Pretty unique section in a reloading manual along with actual experimentation. There is some software now that will do it synthetically but always a grain of salt using that. Closest resemblance to that section is Ken Water's Notebooks.

Some of the old Speer and Lyman editions have some interesting observations as well that were dropped in later manuals probably in part due to fear of litigation.

Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 10:20 AM (qdbNv)

141 Hey y'all, thanks Squirrel!

Finished John Prados's "Islands of Destiny", excellent account of Solomons campaign in WWII.

Next up: (moron recommended) "Like Wolves on the Fold."

Comments above reminded me of something. Recent visit to Army Engineers ground zero, Fort Leonard Wood, for talk and book selling. The Bruce C. Clarke Library has a section displaying old war games - Avalon Hill and that era. Was delightful to see a modern display of the board games I grew up playing.

Happy Reading, all.

Posted by: goatexchange at August 11, 2024 10:20 AM (Pfsjl)

142 Thanks for the book thread, perfessor. I able to participate today because I finished all my pre church chores and no adult study before church. I am reading again after about 20 years Shusako Endo's "Silence " about persecution of RC's in Japan and priests who try to help the RCs in 17th c.Japan. It was also made into an excellent movie but I couldn't watch the end because it was too I
Intense.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 11, 2024 10:21 AM (4qMZx)

143 There's a story of Niven's from early on that has never been in any of his collections. It involves teleportation, "By Mind Alone" (that's the title too). And it ends with a natural conclusion from the rules set up for teleportation in the story -- and yet comes as a whopper of an unsettling surprise. Almost a horror story in some ways. I have it in a magazine, a copy of If: Worlds of Tomorrow, that I found years ago at a convention. (I also have the magazine version of "Flatlander" in another issue. There are a few line differences, but the illustrations are great.)
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 10:10 AM (4COyr)

You can find a lot of the Astounding, Amazing and Worlds of IF magazines on Archive.org. There are also copies of Black Mask as well.
In poking around there I read that Niven story, and I have found some Hammett pulp stories that never made it to any anthology
Archive.org is sort of like poking around the magazine section in a junk shop, there are some gems among the piles.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 11, 2024 10:21 AM (D7oie)

144 Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 10:19 AM (4COyr)

Wasn't it Vonnegut who said something like "Critics often mistake the science fiction bookshelf for a urinal?"

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at August 11, 2024 10:21 AM (PiwSw)

145 read Mongol Moon...good modern Clancey page turner...now onto book 2 A dance of the devils....

Posted by: qmark at August 11, 2024 10:21 AM (+t9Oi)

146 The unwillingness of some fans, even aspiring writers, to read outside the SF genre came home to me when Heinlein's The Cat Who Walks Through Walls came out. More than one writer-to-be fan was dissatisfied with the ending. I was astonished. "Haven't you ever read Hemingway's For Whom the Bell Tolls? It's the same kind of ending, and it's great!"

They'd never read it.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 10:22 AM (4COyr)

147 "I started reading Hemingway's A Farewell To Arms, "

-
I loved that book. This is another I bribed my daughters to read.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I got 99 problems but Vance ain't one at August 11, 2024 10:22 AM (L/fGl)

148 Oh, man, I overslept, and almost slept through the whole thread. Eh, it's okay. I didn't have much to add this week. I didn't finish reading anything. I just bounced around between ongoing reads: Another boy-and-his-dog book by Jim Kjelgaard, the Savage Realms e-zine, an old Cossack short-story collection, and 4 different comic book omnibuses...

Posted by: Castle Guy at August 11, 2024 10:23 AM (Lhaco)

149 Phew. So busy this morning.

KTE found an old tiny child's prayer book for me. It's so cool. Pic here

https://x.com/typesaway/status/
1822638789132533868

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at August 11, 2024 10:23 AM (Ka3bZ)

150 https://tinyurl.com/4n9hy2w7

I also reading the notes from the "Life Application Bible" which has suggestions for getting help from the psalms , which is what the link is about.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 11, 2024 10:23 AM (4qMZx)

151 Found a book, Tall Short Stories, in a thrift shop this week in Utah. I was just wandering around wasting time and saw it out on a shelf. A very, sturdy shelf. One that has held up for years. Anyway, it's an old Ace paperback from the late 50s. I know most of the writers, but some I've never heard of.

Broken into story types, with an introduction by a snooty-sounding Brit. I can't tell by his dense writing whether he likes short stories or not.

Read three so far, and was surprised by an ending, but then I remembered it was by Saki.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 11, 2024 10:24 AM (0eaVi)

152 H Beam Piper had a very jaundiced eye towards the social sciences, just have to read 'Uller Uprising' to understand that.

But the hard sciences, go read 'Omnilingual.'

Posted by: Anna Puma at August 11, 2024 10:25 AM (UeDJl)

153 I just bounced around between ongoing reads: Another boy-and-his-dog book by Jim Kjelgaard, the Savage Realms e-zine, an old Cossack short-story collection, and 4 different comic book omnibuses...
Posted by: Castle Guy at August 11, 2024 10:23 AM (Lhaco)
-----

Oh is THAT all.

Any Cossack comics?

Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 11, 2024 10:25 AM (kpS4V)

154 Graham Hancock is dismissed by all the right people as a crank. Maybe he is. Some of his scientist detractors though also.seem to be cranks, or at least act suspiciously. Hancock has short Netflix series, judge for yourself, or not.
Posted by: Chuck Martel

A frequent guest on Art Bell, he might be a crank but he is an amusing one..

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I got 99 problems but Vance ain't one at August 11, 2024 10:25 AM (L/fGl)

155 > "I started reading Hemingway's A Farewell To Arms, "

---

I did that once

Posted by: Don Black wore gym shorts and hopes that is okay at August 11, 2024 10:27 AM (/7KEl)

156 Guns Magazine where Venturino spent most of his career as a gun writer, has free teaser articles from past editions sent out as emails. I get them at least once per week free even though I am a former subscriber.

Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 10:12 AM (qdbNv)
---
My 1977 edition of Guns of the World is fascinating insofar as it discusses what items were the hot ticket at the time. Lots of colonial/western Americana. Foreign surplus was still cheap but between stagflation and the end of mass imports, prices were starting to rise.

The book has aged quite well in its discussion of what collectors should look at, especially the importance of building a theme for one's collection.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 10:27 AM (llXky)

157 A good bio for Eisenhower?

You can start with this 40 minute video:

https://youtu.be/DYGaHCOllIg

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at August 11, 2024 10:28 AM (dg+HA)

158 Whig, thanks for the Lee manual recommendation. I need to look it up.

I'm still on my dive into Wall Street and various aspects of finance.

If one has blood pressure issues, I suggest one avoid reading up on the subject.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 11, 2024 10:28 AM (tT6L1)

159 Just did not get sexy hard boiled detective from pasty white nerdy looking Bogart.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 11, 2024 09:52 AM (t/2Uw)

My sister in spirit! Bogart does nothing for me, either.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at August 11, 2024 10:29 AM (OX9vb)

160 thanks

Posted by: Don Black wore gym shorts and hopes that is okay at August 11, 2024 10:31 AM (/7KEl)

161 Ya know what might be a fun gun to thread topic? "Dumbest and Smartest Things I've Done In the Reloading Room." Posted by: Oddbob
=====
Might be a bit scary as well. Dealing with primers is something that can make one a tad uneasy as they are little detonators in reality.

Should be a bit more clear on the Powder Measures and Scoops. Lee's Powder scoops are in cubic centimeters as Richard Lee decided a universal measure for powder is volume and since each powder varies a bit in density, he developed plastic scoop measures that produced safe loads in the reported powders without need for a powder measure. Makes it easy to load in the field if necessary without carrying along a scale or powder thrower.

His first powder measure used disks of various volumes in cubic centermeters for handgun and small rifle cartridge loads (223 and the like). Using two disks, one could pretty much produce safe repeatable loads for a wide variety of powders using the Lee Manual (or datasheet with the Lee Die set). Both still work and will work.

Lee, in his manual, also describes why volume is so important rather than weight in powder measuring. That section is well worth reading.

Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 10:31 AM (qdbNv)

162 After discovering Heinlein's The Puppet Masters (late 1963 IIRC), sf and fantasy were just about all I read for pleasure for at least a decade. Basically, I was kinda like a drunk trying to empty every bottle in the liquor store before somebody caught me in there.

While I've caught up with some outside stuff (had to -- English major), I think that decade did a number on my attention span and my attitude toward how stories should be done. I don't regret the reading I did, but I do wish I'd done more reading for fun outside the field.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 11, 2024 10:32 AM (q3u5l)

163 I'm still on my dive into Wall Street and various aspects of finance.

If one has blood pressure issues, I suggest one avoid reading up on the subject.

Posted by: blake
======
High finance eventually cripples a country via financialization by investors that propels massive government and societal debt.

Resets are always about a generation in length before a slow recovery.

Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 10:33 AM (qdbNv)

164 I beta read Ryan Williamson's manuscript for the first book in a new trilogy he's writing, called "Immortal." It's much different from his Doomsday Recon novels, which were excellent. Immortal was pretty good and will be even better once he finishes the final draft and finds a publisher for it.

Also read the first of a new trilogy from James SA Corey, author of The Expanse series of blessed memory. This book is called "The Mercy of Gods" and is about a group of human scientists captured by an alien empire who must work on projects for the evil aliens to avoid their planet being destroyed. Not nearly as good as the writing or story in The Expanse, sadly. Still, a decent read.

Currently reading book 9 in PA Piatt's series featuring Abner Fortis, the junior officer who has grown into quite a good soldier. This one is called "Peace Dividend" and it is great, like all the books in this series. Book 10 is also out so I'll hit that next week.

Posted by: Sharkman at August 11, 2024 10:33 AM (Oybjh)

165 163 After discovering Heinlein's The Puppet Masters (late 1963 IIRC), sf and fantasy were just about all I read for pleasure for at least a decade. Basically, I was kinda like a drunk trying to empty every bottle in the liquor store before somebody caught me in there.

While I've caught up with some outside stuff (had to -- English major), I think that decade did a number on my attention span and my attitude toward how stories should be done. I don't regret the reading I did, but I do wish I'd done more reading for fun outside the field.
Posted by: Just Some Guy
======
Try Glory Road for Heinlein's first and best merger of Sci Fi and Fantasy.

Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 10:34 AM (qdbNv)

166 The good Perfessor wrote:

"I needed something lighter and fluffier after reading Salvation Lost so I went with this one. It tells the tale of a man who suffers from PTSD after witnessing children being slaughtered..."

I got a chuckle out of PTSD being 'lighter and fluffier' than the previous reading topic.

Anyways, it's always cool to have a comment highlighted in the main post!

Posted by: Castle Guy at August 11, 2024 10:34 AM (Lhaco)

167 I read this week "Mine Were of Trouble: A Nationalist Account of the Spanish Civil War" by Peter Kemp. The author had just graduated from Cambridge when the Spanish Civil War was starting. He was a strong anti-Communist and he went to Spain to fight as a volunteer on the Nationalist side. He became an officer in the Spanish Foreign Legion (which despite the name was about 99% Spanish) and was seriously wounded. It is well worth reading both as a first hand account of combat and as one told from a perspective we seldom see in English.

One oddity with this edition (which I got from the library) is that the author is given as Peter "Camp" both on the cover and the title page. The correct name of "Kemp" is given on the copyright notice and in the Author's Note at the end. The publisher is "Interbooks" (?).

Posted by: John F. MacMichael at August 11, 2024 10:37 AM (jjfDF)

168 Sharkman, if you haven't yet read Piatt's ebook "Honor Flight", don't read it. Trust me. Wait until he no longer writes any more Abner Fortis books.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at August 11, 2024 10:38 AM (PiwSw)

169 I decided, a whole lotta years ago, that I would not see a movie if I had read the book. I was always disappointed in the movie. Although it seemed I was in the minority on that point. For example, the only Bond movie that followed the book (and that I enjoyed) was "On Her Majesties Secret Service" and that is the least favorite amongst Bond fans.
Of course, it also seems like one should not get too critical of authors either. My favorite author (besides Louis L'amour) years ago was Alistair MacLean ... until his book Athabasca. I lived in Fort McMurray, Alberta at the time and his storyline was absurd. I guess it follows the old "if you like sausage, don't watch them being made" adage

Posted by: Wingnutt at August 11, 2024 10:38 AM (PNMSC)

170 High finance eventually cripples a country via financialization by investors that propels massive government and societal debt.

Resets are always about a generation in length before a slow recovery.
Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 10:33 AM (qdbNv)
---
An enduring genre of American writing is the doom that's just around the corner. For a modest sum, you can robust your finances to weather the coming apocalypse.

In truth, financial "panics" are pretty routine and the lesson is that the longer one puts them off, the worse they become.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 10:38 AM (llXky)

171 Ah, Glory Road.

When it first came out in paperback, I stewed for nearly two weeks about spending 75 cents on a single paperback (in them days, a paperback usually ran anywhere from 35 - 50 cents), and Heinlein was a favorite of mine by then.

Walked home from school a couple of times to cut down on bus fare and bought the book in spite of the price tag, and enjoyed it immensely.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 11, 2024 10:39 AM (q3u5l)

172 A frequent guest on Art Bell, he might be a crank but he is an amusing one..
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I got 99 problems but Vance ain't one at August 11, 2024 10:25 AM (L/fGl)

I have listened to a fair number of anthropology/archaeology podcasts (pro-tip, people who teach are pretty good at organizing thoughts and speak pleasantly) and they act like they snorted a bee up their nose at the idea of pre-catastrophe civilizations.
I would be happy to hear just one put out what they would need as the exceptional evidence to consider the possibility.
It is difficult to tell the difference between flakes, cranks and people who haven't gotten their work through peer review, yet.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 11, 2024 10:39 AM (D7oie)

173 The book has aged quite well in its discussion of what collectors should look at, especially the importance of building a theme for one's collection.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd
========
4th Edition or earlier of Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms is an excellent primer on what to look for, brief historical notes, etc. of firearms before roughly 1900. Later editions spend more time on current market values than useful historical tidbits.

To cross the streams again, H. Beam Piper has a a sole mystery available at Project Gutenberg. Murder in the Gunroom. Piper was a serious antique firearm and weaponry collector and knew his stuff well enough to be paid to catalog some antique firearm collections.

Didn't sell well but an interesting failure. Piper's manuscript for a historical novel, "Only the Arquebus" is considered lost which would be a shame. Much of the background for his Lord Kalvan series came from that novel and his own firearm experience.

Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 10:40 AM (qdbNv)

174 My son turned me on to Nero Wolff stories. LOL. They are great.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at August 11, 2024 10:41 AM (+H2BX)

175 SpaceX
New T-Zero: 10:59 a.m. EDT, 1459 UTC, 16:59 CEST. Means: that is the last minute of the available launch window today. Reasons are unknown. Maybe a ground issue or weather issues at the landing site.

Posted by: Ciampino - Space Kitties #06 at August 11, 2024 10:43 AM (qfLjt)

176 One oddity with this edition (which I got from the library) is that the author is given as Peter "Camp" both on the cover and the title page. The correct name of "Kemp" is given on the copyright notice and in the Author's Note at the end. The publisher is "Interbooks" (?).
Posted by: John F. MacMichael at August 11, 2024 10:37 AM (jjfDF)
---
These are reprints and like many of them, have no editing at all. I enjoyed the book as well but cannot recommend Kemp's next two books in the series, which focus on his wartime experiences in the Balkans and later the Pacific.

Put simply, they are very dull, mostly recitations out of his travels with endless passages of how he went to this village and then that one, and I suspect that whatever commercial success it enjoyed was in part because he was describing strange and exotic locales that modern audiences have seen in countless travel shows.

But that book is great.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 10:43 AM (llXky)

177 "Fantasy and science fiction in general were considered by the cognoscenti, and the adults who were mesmerized by them, as juvenile escapist fare"

I dropped out of one of my honoraries when their journal did a special issue "Science Fiction: A Literature against The Future." Just what you'd expect, absolutely canonical acceptance by the post-New Left, and that was in...1977. True to form, they were complaining about traits then 20 or 30 years in the past.

Posted by: Way,Way Downriver at August 11, 2024 10:44 AM (zdLoL)

178 And I really, really want to see Lake Baikal someday.

Posted by: screaming in digital at August 11, 2024 10:12 AM (iZbyp)

Oohh, me, too. As long as we're dreaming, I'll plan on taking this trip with you!

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at August 11, 2024 10:44 AM (OX9vb)

179 13 I'm willing to keep an open mind about the theory of an advanced human civilization mostly wiped out in the Younger Dryas rapid cooling/warming floods.

Posted by: Chuck Martel

Also, the Bronze Age Collapse, around 1177 BC. A historically-confirmed collapse of multiple civilizations in the near east. The Greeks lost the memory of writing during the collapse. (They had writing before, then nothing for 500 years, and then an entirely new script, unrelated to the old way of writing) We found the ruins of a city during the collapse; the last record of the city stated that they had resorted to human sacrifice to ask the gods to save them from destruction. It didn't work...

Since this is a book thread, there is book by Eric H. Cline on the topic. And apparently a just-released sequel, that focuses on the few civilizations (probably the Egyptians) that survived.

Posted by: Castle Guy at August 11, 2024 10:45 AM (Lhaco)

180 Oohh, me, too. As long as we're dreaming, I'll plan on taking this trip with you!
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at August 11, 2024 10:44 AM (OX9vb)

A mobile MoMe? A MoMoMe?

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at August 11, 2024 10:45 AM (PiwSw)

181 151 https://tinyurl.com/4n9hy2w7

--

Thank you Fenelon, such a helpful list

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at August 11, 2024 10:46 AM (Ka3bZ)

182 In before the Tolkien nerds pollute the joint.

Damn it!

Posted by: Dr. Bone at August 11, 2024 10:46 AM (2UBPP)

183 OK I found Ambrose's Ike book on Amazon
he wrote a two volume treatment- one soldier, the other president-

but there is also an edition with both volumes mashed together, so I think I will go with that

Posted by: Don Black wore gym shorts and hopes that is okay at August 11, 2024 10:47 AM (/7KEl)

184 It is difficult to tell the difference between flakes, cranks and people who haven't gotten their work through peer review, yet.
Posted by: Kindltot at August 11, 2024 10:39 AM (D7oie)
---
If you can find a copy of Otto Muck's The Secret of Atlantis, grab it. When I was an undergrad, I beheld with amazement the size of a university library and thought: "Here I can learn the answer to just about anything." So I read up on Dracula and Atlantis and other stuff, and of course it's all over the place.

Muck stood out as one of the more logical researchers on Atlantis and when I saw a used copy of his book I snagged it - in part to use as a setting for yet another book project I haven't finished.

It's surprisingly rational.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 10:49 AM (llXky)

185 In truth, financial "panics" are pretty routine and the lesson is that the longer one puts them off, the worse they become.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd
---------
I would actually recommend reading, This Time, It's Different by economic historians Carmen and Rogoff. Goes through about 1000 years of woeful economic times. But a key marker is when a government exceeds 100 percent debt to gdp ratio. Makes it into a debt trap that requires either formal or informal repudiation of government debt to get out of. Once you exceed 100 pct debt to gdp, like our government has been doing, all the taxes raised end up paying for existing debt service. So, you either inflate the debt away (informal repudiation) or you have formal default. Hyperinflation is the result of inflating it away and a harsh reallocation of spending to equal taxes and bankrupting a lot of investors is the result of formal default. Plus much higher interest rates to reflect the deadbeat status. Result, tragedy occurs for that society.

Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 10:49 AM (qdbNv)

186 Morning all.
Still slogging through to the end of A Distant Mirror.
And a slog it is. I've abandoned it about four time as a "I'm never going to finish this thing" book only to pick it up again.

131 I've been watching a YouTube channel called Unraveling Words. It's about the history of Words.
I find etymology fascinating. Or maybe it's entomology.
Posted by: Northernlurker , wondering where his phone is at August 11, 2024 10:16 AM (FfSAJ)

Through reading A.D.M. and study around it I came across The Great Vowel Shift. A period where the British tried to redo English to sound as snooty and fruity as French. Nobody got it right which is why the first word out of true English speaker's (Muricans) mouth when anyone from that lost island says anything is "what?"
Many theorys on why it happened but I have my own.
It was done so that hundreds of years later my English teacher, Mrs. Felker, could use these stupid, made up rules to make me do the math, showing my work, and flunk me in 8th grade.

Posted by: Reforger at August 11, 2024 10:50 AM (xcIvR)

187 175 ... I fell in love with Nero Wolfe books once I read the line from "The Doorbell Rang".

"Madam, I am neither a thaumatuge nor a dunce." He had me at thaumaturge used properly. I've enjoyed the books ever since.

Posted by: JTB at August 11, 2024 10:50 AM (zudum)

188 A. H. Lloyd @177, thanks for the advice regarding Kemp's later books. I had been wondering if it would be worth the effort to find copies.

Posted by: John F. MacMichael at August 11, 2024 10:51 AM (jjfDF)

189 KTE found an old tiny child's prayer book for me. It's so cool. Pic here

https://x.com/typesaway/status/
1822638789132533868
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at August 11, 2024 10:23 AM (Ka3bZ)

Lovely! (that was me, commenting on your X post)

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at August 11, 2024 10:52 AM (OX9vb)

190 My teacher didn't sneer, but he wondered aloud if the average SF reader would be willing to take the time to read and appreciate the story. Clearly that was his view of SF fans in general: lazy and unwilling to read outside the field. (The latter part was true among fans I'd met.)
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 10:19 AM (4COyr)

How widespread do you think that is? I had a sci-fi writer/reader go over my longest work and the person said they couldn't finish it. I was told I didn't understand space and space travel. Well, I've seen plenty of space and space travel stories and movies, so maybe it's because I don't do it as other sf writers do. The other critiques were valid, and I'm rewriting to take care of those, but if a critiquer doesn't finish the work, how can I improve? Eh, maybe it isn't my genre, but if a writer has to have an intimate knowledge of whatever is written about, then I should stop trying because I've never done anything but read. Never been in the military, big business, spycraft, cowboying, detective work, law, etc....

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 11, 2024 10:54 AM (0eaVi)

191 By the way, great picture of Ace's bookshelves! Which one does he keep his copy of the Necronomicon on?

Posted by: John F. MacMichael at August 11, 2024 10:55 AM (jjfDF)

192 Perfessor, did that guy contact you, yet?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 11, 2024 10:55 AM (0eaVi)

193 Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 11, 2024 10:05 AM (kpS4V)

Please use tinyurl or some other url shortening system.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 11, 2024 10:56 AM (d9fT1)

194 Like pOlinis latest epic runs about a 1000 pages

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at August 11, 2024 10:56 AM (PXvVL)

195 Paolinis latest soace epic in the sea of stars

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at August 11, 2024 10:57 AM (PXvVL)

196 I read Ike by Michael Korda. It's well writen but the author has to get in a dig at Trump for some reason.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at August 11, 2024 10:59 AM (dDSBl)

197 I've been intrigued by "out there" stuff, who isn't, when reading all the famous mysteries, why not have a little fun with weird archeology? I don't believe in "aliens built the pyramids", but the stonework there, and around the world in various granite, andesite, diorite - impossibly difficult to work with, achieving granite-plate precision polished surfaces and obvious circular saw or high feed rates, Petrie estimated a 1 turn in 60 core drill rate or about .1" per revolution of the drill. That is astonishing for granite.

For a time sink, the Beinecke rare book library has the "Voynich manuscript" an odd tome full of indecipherable language and strange plants that defies easy description.

Beinecke got tired of people bugging them about it, and published it. They got everyone who decided THEY had figured out what it "really means". And boy howdy, that might not be what you think. One guy, incarcerated in prison, claimed that he had written it in his own blood, and would be coming in to pick it up. I just love the picture of some library aide getting told to watch out for that feller.

The spooks and code-breakers have taken a few shots at it since at least the 1940s.

Posted by: Common Tater at August 11, 2024 11:00 AM (oN30K)

198 Use of "they", "their" for 3rd person singular is vicious reader-abuse.

Posted by: sinmi at August 11, 2024 11:01 AM (potuI)

199 Launch aborted at T-46 secs. Maybe tomorrow?

Posted by: Ciampino - Space Kitties #07 at August 11, 2024 11:01 AM (qfLjt)

200 Regarding the remarks above by various female commenters that Humphrey Bogart is not really hot enough for the role of Sam Spade: it is worth remembering that Sam Spade, as described by Dashiell Hammet in "The Maltese Falcon", is tall, blonde and said to look "...rather pleasantly like a blonde Satan..." It is rather ironic that thanks to the movie 99.99% of people see an image of Bogart when they visualize Sam Spade.

Posted by: John F. MacMichael at August 11, 2024 11:01 AM (jjfDF)

201 Falcon scrubbed

Posted by: Don Black wore gym shorts and hopes that is okay at August 11, 2024 11:01 AM (/7KEl)

202 63 Graham Hancock is dismissed by all the right people as a crank. Maybe he is. Some of his scientist detractors though also.seem to be cranks, or at least act suspiciously. Hancock has short Netflix series, judge for yourself, or not.
Posted by: Chuck Martel at August 11, 2024 09:39 AM (fs1hN)

Seen it. Many YouTubers I watch recommended it. Some of the stuff is very convincing: the wheel-ruts in the Mediterranean islands that run into and under the ocean. That recently discovered ruin (whose name escapes me at the moment) that is 12000 years old...

However, I do have an issue with the idea of a worldwide culture that taught everyone farming: once a culture domesticates plants or animals, they tend to take those domesticates with them. Just look at Europeans lugging around wheat and horses and whatnot. If there was teacher-culture, shouldn't we have found their domesticates all around the world? It is the weak link in the argument...

Posted by: Castle Guy at August 11, 2024 11:02 AM (Lhaco)

203 Some of the Kamala videos appear dubbed to a green screen and some you can see a blurred sign that end with MA.

Posted by: rhennigantx at August 11, 2024 11:03 AM (gbOdA)

204 I remember one of baldaccis featured the voynich the one set in the cia headquarters

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at August 11, 2024 11:03 AM (PXvVL)

205 And FYI, the Eisenhower museum in Abilene is nicely done.

The Korda book has a good overview of Ike's early life, without getting bogged down in it. But I never thought of Ike as a globalist. I do now.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at August 11, 2024 11:03 AM (dDSBl)

206 Required reading from so many years ago (elementary school) that have stayed with me, a very long time indeed.

'The Lady and the Tiger' by Frank R. Stockton, 1882. Stockton was born in Philadelphia and wrote a series of children's fairy tales very popular towards last decades of the 1900s and again mid-20th century.

'The Lottery' by Shirley Jackson, 1948. Ms. Jackson was known primarily for her works of horror & mystery including the short story above & the 1959 gothic novel, 'The Haunting of Hill House.' The Haunting was the 1963 horror film adapted from the novel.
----
Weeks ago, I also brought out to reread, 'The END of America' 100 days that shook the world, By J. J. Sefton

Inside the book's jacket, in part: "The Left's 100-year campaign of political and cultural subversion in its quest for absolute power climaxed during a roughly 100-day period from Election Day through early-February of 2021."

I'll continue to recommend this book which I believe has honestly chronicled one of the most important times in our history.

Posted by: L - If they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you, too at August 11, 2024 11:04 AM (NFX2v)

207 Good morning CBD!

Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 11, 2024 11:04 AM (kpS4V)

208 A. H. Lloyd @177, thanks for the advice regarding Kemp's later books. I had been wondering if it would be worth the effort to find copies.
Posted by: John F. MacMichael at August 11, 2024 10:51 AM (jjfDF)
---
I went in for all three, and sold the two later ones. I think part of the problem is that his time in Spain was brief and very exciting. His later work was mostly gathering intelligence and could easily have been condensed into a single volume. In the Balkans, he literally goes through it day by day, town by town, meal by meal. Exhausting to read.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:04 AM (llXky)

209 I loved the Alfred Hitchcock Mysteries books in the mid 70s.

About 6 stories with one being like a 4 chapter book.

Posted by: rhennigantx at August 11, 2024 11:05 AM (gbOdA)

210 I'm finishing HHhH by Laurent Binet about the assassination of Heydrich. I'm not sure it was the author's intent but his description of the assassination itself struck me as slapstick as if the Three Stooges attacked the Keystone Kops. Everything that could go wrong, did go wrong. When the assassin had Heydrich in his sights at point blank range, his Sten gun refused to fire. But turn about is fair play and when Heydrich's guard had the assassin in his sights at point blank range his gun also refused to fire. A foot chase then ensued in which the pursued in his jinking around manages to circle around to the very location he was attempting to flee.

A less amusing detail concerns the Nazis' mass murder and destruction of the town of Lidice. A girl failed to appear for work in Prague causing her German-supporting boss to open the mail and read an ambiguous but suspicious note from her married boyfriend. Based on that alone, her hometown of Lidice was selected for reprise.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I got 99 problems but Vance ain't one at August 11, 2024 11:06 AM (L/fGl)

211 I can believe that the long forgotten history of humanity has room for some lost agricultural civilizations, but I can't believe anything more advanced than sails and spears.
-------

Too many Sci-Fi books have been written - humans or their forebears crashed on Earth long ago, and were thrust into a primitive planet without all the toys or tools, or which eventually fell into disrepair.

The "high priests" around the world were keepers of the knowledge. Things like navigation, the stars, and our place in the universe. Stuck on the side of the galaxy, with traffic whizzing by. It's gonna be a while?

Posted by: Common Tater at August 11, 2024 11:07 AM (oN30K)

212 The michael walsh take in the casablanca was nearly as slap dash

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at August 11, 2024 11:07 AM (PXvVL)

213 I highly recommend Dean Koontz's "The Watchers." It is still probably most Koontz fans favorite
Posted by: Nick in PA

It is my favorite along with "Lightning "

Posted by: Tuna at August 11, 2024 11:07 AM (oaGWv)

214 83 I loved Jim Kjelgaard books when I was in grade school, and I never noticed that they were a series of vignettes.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 11, 2024 09:51 AM (D7oie)

I should clarify: the "Big Red" books were mostly vignettes. Not necessarily all his other books. At least one, "Snow Dog" is a traditionally-structured novel.

Posted by: Castle Guy at August 11, 2024 11:07 AM (Lhaco)

215 As with the assasination of arch dule ferdinands its sometimes dumb luck princip was perhaps the worst

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at August 11, 2024 11:08 AM (PXvVL)

216 Eh, maybe it isn't my genre, but if a writer has to have an intimate knowledge of whatever is written about, then I should stop trying because I've never done anything but read. Never been in the military, big business, spycraft, cowboying, detective work, law, etc....
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 11, 2024 10:54 AM (0eaVi)
---
The best advice is to write what you know. You can know a genre by reading lots of it and properly employing the conventions (subverting them as necessary).

But having other, practical knowledge is very helpful. I think Man of Destiny works because of my military background and certainly that is a big part of my military history stuff. Vampires of Michigan works because I know the genre, but also the local geography and of course guns, guns, guns.

Without knowing more, it does seem your critic is off base. Space travel is pretty much a magic box and unless you want to go hard science and have it take place over the years between Earth and Mars, you have to come up with a mechanic, whether warp speed or jump gates/hyperspace.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:09 AM (llXky)

217 Re: blown margins

You could turn your phone sideways so you have wider margins.

*runs away, serpentine

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at August 11, 2024 11:09 AM (OX9vb)

218
Not a book, but quite something all the same. The Pastor's weekly message is almost always of Higher Things and not the affairs of this world, but this week's was entitled "Reparations for Abominations Against the Sacred Heart", a brief but thunderous denunciation of the Olympics opening ceremony.

Gonna leave this right here:
https://reginacaeliparish.org/bulletins

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at August 11, 2024 11:09 AM (1Nxff)

219 As time goes on

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at August 11, 2024 11:09 AM (PXvVL)

220 On a recommendation from one of the 'Ettes I've been reading The Hormone Repair Manual. And thank you to whichever one of you it was (sorry I can't remember). It's been very helpful.

Posted by: Jordan61 at August 11, 2024 11:10 AM (16NmB)

221 Still working my way through the Gutenberg Crime & Mystery free books. The Law and the Lady. Odd bit that the writer uses a female first person protag describing her pearl clutching conundrum of marrying a gent with a past. Heaven forfend~!

The gent appears to have committed some horrendous crime, and now our earnest bride has to prove his innocence. I can't wait. AND holy guacamole, they made a movie out of it, I just found.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 11, 2024 11:11 AM (IG4Id)

222 Hes a phd in celestial mecfanic or a wannabe neil de grasse tyson

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at August 11, 2024 11:12 AM (PXvVL)

223 Think I mentioned this in an earlier book thread. About 20 years ago there was a poll to find the most popular novel of the last century. LOTR came in first by a wide margin. The self proclaimed intellectual elite were pissed off and demanded another poll. Apparently they thought it was skewed because it wasn't possible that their disdain for LOTR was ignored. The second poll had Tolkien by a wider margin than the first. There may have been a certain amount of F you to the elites but I don't know. This disdain, from the same type of critics, has been since the books first came out n the 50s. You would think that after half a century of 'in your elitist faces' they would get the message.

Posted by: JTB at August 11, 2024 11:12 AM (zudum)

224
Too many Sci-Fi books have been written

*groans*

Ain't that the truth. I've never enjoyed Sci-Fi because I've thought that the fantastic settings were just a cover for really bad writing. I stopped reading alt-history for the same reason, plus historical implausibility.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at August 11, 2024 11:13 AM (1Nxff)

225 The note that settled Lidice's fate read . . .

Dear Ania,
Sorry for taking so long to write to you, but I hope you will understand, because you know I have many worries. What I wanted to do—I’ve done it. On the fatal day, I slept in Cabarna. I’m fine. I’ll come to see you this week, and afterward we will never see each other again.
Milan

-
There is no evidence that either had anything to do with the assassination.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I got 99 problems but Vance ain't one at August 11, 2024 11:15 AM (L/fGl)

226 Oh, wait. It has nothing to do with the book. Shizzle-pizz.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 11, 2024 11:15 AM (IG4Id)

227
There may have been a certain amount of F you to the elites but I don't know. This disdain, from the same type of critics, has been since the books first came out n the 50s. You would think that after half a century of 'in your elitist faces' they would get the message.
Posted by: JTB at August 11, 2024 11:12 AM (zudum)

I think on the other side there are authors who owe their reputation to the elites saying to status-anxious AWFLs, "This is the book you must read!" Like David Foster Wallace and Toni Morrison.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at August 11, 2024 11:17 AM (1Nxff)

228 Interesting tidbit, to me at least, is that SF writers have done a lot of collaborations. Masterful writers have teamed up and created astonishingly great novels and worlds. Niven and Pournelle, for example.

I don't know if that confluence was because SF was the orphaned red-headed stepchild of publishing, but I really can't think of any other genre that cooperated to that extent over and above the egos and created such wonders.

Fascinating.

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 11, 2024 11:18 AM (WCgT6)

229 Ain't that the truth. I've never enjoyed Sci-Fi because I've thought that the fantastic settings were just a cover for really bad writing. I stopped reading alt-history for the same reason, plus historical implausibility.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at August 11, 2024 11:13 AM (1Nxff)
---
A lot of it has strange sex in it as well. I gave up on fiction in college and mostly read history. When I get into fiction, I'm attracted to authors with solid reputations like Waugh. Graham Greene is next on my list. Nabakov is also waiting in the wings.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:18 AM (llXky)

230 There is no evidence that either had anything to do with the assassination.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I got 99 problems but Vance ain't one at August 11, 2024 11:15 AM (L/fGl)
---
"It doesn't matter. A village defied us and a village is burned. The message is clear."

- Peoples' General Strelnikov

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:21 AM (llXky)

231 Oh is THAT all.

Any Cossack comics?
Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 11, 2024 10:25 AM (kpS4V)

Ironically, yes. I have 2 volumes of a French comic simply called "Cossacks." The art is cool, but the morality of the book is.....unsettling. It makes it hard to cheer for the protagonists the way I should.

And, yeah, I may be reading too many things at once. But some titles (Savage Realms) are purely for reading-in-the-park, and other titles....are just hard to stick with. Or I need a break from them. Or there's something else that I just can't wait to start...

Posted by: Castle Guy at August 11, 2024 11:21 AM (Lhaco)

232 I don't know if that confluence was because SF was the orphaned red-headed stepchild of publishing, but I really can't think of any other genre that cooperated to that extent over and above the egos and created such wonders.

Fascinating.
Posted by: mustbequantum

Must have something to do with the geeky nature of sci-fi. That or some are better at dialogue than others who have interesting speculation.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 11, 2024 11:22 AM (IG4Id)

233

My sister in spirit! Bogart does nothing for me, either.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs!

"Casablanca" without Bogart would have been a very average film. Liked him in "African Queen" also.

Posted by: Tuna at August 11, 2024 11:22 AM (oaGWv)

234 This disdain, from the same type of critics, has been since the books first came out n the 50s. You would think that after half a century of 'in your elitist faces' they would get the message.
Posted by: JTB at August 11, 2024 11:12 AM (zudum)
---
Almost all of the original critics are dead, and the rationale has changed. Modern elites are far less erudite, and so their contempt is not based on fantasy per se, but the moral content of the works, which they find abhorrent. Also the unapologetically English perspective, hence the race-swapping in We Haz Rangz

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:23 AM (llXky)

235 I don't know if that confluence was because SF was the orphaned red-headed stepchild of publishing, but I really can't think of any other genre that cooperated to that extent over and above the egos and created such wonders.
Fascinating.
Posted by: mustbequantum at August 11, 2024 11:18 AM (WCgT6)

Unlike non-fiction, sci fi writers are (generally) massive fans, too, and they like playing in each other's sandboxes. A lot of sci-fi is world building and a coherent and compelling world is a work of its own. The pulp writers also used every bit of new information that came to hand, and they regularly borrowed from each other, so sitting down and doing it formally was just the next step.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 11, 2024 11:25 AM (D7oie)

236 Some wack job assigned "The Hobbit" in high school maybe, as I recall. Bilbo Baggins and Frodo and I made it a few pages in and thought "this shit is fucking wierd" and the people who liked it a lot seemed like cult members.

Yeah, maybe them backwards protest-ants were on to something. Now give me some Lester Del Ray and "Runaway Robot" (Thank you Scholastic Book Services!) I was OK with that. Tolkien seems like another one of those "better check the crawlspace" kind of guys, maybe. Could be wrong.

Posted by: Common Tater at August 11, 2024 11:26 AM (oN30K)

237 Must have something to do with the geeky nature of sci-fi. That or some are better at dialogue than others who have interesting speculation.
=====

But how did they overcome the natural egotism? For some reason, I was thinking of Bear, Benford, and Brin (I think they called themselves 'Killer Bs') who also created great collaborations.

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 11, 2024 11:26 AM (WCgT6)

238 Anyone read Don Winslow?

He is a rancid leftist, but the guy can write.

I am torn...

Posted by: CharlieGray'sDildo at August 11, 2024 11:27 AM (d9fT1)

239 Civilizations advanced enough to teach/enslave the primitives to build ancient megalithic that appear to be oriented to the stars.
Posted by: Chuck Martel at August 11, 2024 09:30 AM (fs1hN)

Shepherds, then. They have a lot of time to gaze at stars.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at August 11, 2024 11:28 AM (+o/4e)

240 When the grizzled old Space Prospector rooted around in his tool box for Color vision tube to replace the B/W tube, our hero robot had, I thought that was the coolest thing. What really sold most of those books, was the Artwork on the covers I think. The 50s and 60s is unsurpassed on some of that. What's REALLY weird, is now the real life rocketry stuff is starting to mimic that. Stainless steel shiny rockets that land backwards.

The Runaway Robot was a stowaway, you see, along with his owner. They were moving to a new planet you see, and thus the young kids Robot would have to be sold, you see. That will never do!

Posted by: Common Tater at August 11, 2024 11:30 AM (oN30K)

241 I did not read LotR until my late 20s, Pappy Eromero was past 60 when he read it. We both saw the morality lessons.

Posted by: Eromero at August 11, 2024 11:30 AM (DXbAa)

242 The weather here is perfect. Had to move outside to enjoy it. Cool, breezy, just enough clouds to make it interesting. Grandkids gamboling around the yard.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:30 AM (llXky)

243 Just Some Guy at 10:39. I identify with your story about agonizing over paying 75 cents for a book. I read Moby Dick (50 cents) because I didn't want to spend OVER a dollar for Ragtime. I eventually did read Ragtime and enjoyed but Moby Dick was definitely a better choice (and the money saved probably bought me a couple of tap beers).

Posted by: who knew at August 11, 2024 11:30 AM (+ViXu)

244 LOL, Niven has a future sports team named the Berlin Nazis.

It could happen. I mean, we have Vikings, and they terrorized Europe.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 11, 2024 11:32 AM (kpS4V)

245 If memory serves, a number of sf writers would, at the occasional party, type out a page or two and pass it to another writer and tell him to take it away, and he'd do a page or two and pass it on, just for the fun of it.

Harlan Ellison had a collection called Partners in Wonder; the stories were all collaborations he did with other writers.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 11, 2024 11:32 AM (q3u5l)

246 I rarely read SciFi because normally it doesn't interest me but one of my all time favorite books is Armor by John Steakley. Shame he only wrote two full books.

Posted by: polynikes at August 11, 2024 11:32 AM (B1dzx)

247 Tolkien seems like another one of those "better check the crawlspace" kind of guys, maybe. Could be wrong.
Posted by: Common Tater
======
Actually, his stories began when he was serving in the trenches in WWI to his children back in England. He was an expert in philology (study of words) and was a major contributor to the Oxford Standard Dictionary of English. So, he was an Oxford Don as well as a devout Catholic. Post WWII, his intention became to develop a mythology for modern England and to that end, his Lord of the Rings trilogy went far beyond the children's novel of The Hobbit and into far darker territory.

So overall, a man that was more or less an institution of Britain's 20th century literature and one of the Oxford dons who could and did fight honorably for king and country but had a poetic soul.

He was one of the few scholars who was comfortable in Old and Middle English and actually produced some excellent translations of Gawain and the Green Knight and a medieval poem Pearl.

So, no, he was not a modern Democrat but instead an antithesis.

Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 11:32 AM (qdbNv)

248 But how did they overcome the natural egotism? For some reason, I was thinking of Bear, Benford, and Brin (I think they called themselves 'Killer Bs') who also created great collaborations.
Posted by: mustbequantum at August 11, 2024 11:26 AM (WCgT6)

The genre started out collaborative. Leinster, leiber, and Kuttner and CL Moore started out with collaborations. Also the science fiction writers tended to start out young, and they knew they didn't know what they were doing and having a co-writer was a good way to push through the doldrums in putting a manuscript together.
Also, Campbell would give long reviews of manuscripts explaining what needed to be changed for publication, so a lot of the Analog work was sort of co-authored by Campbell and I am sure that did a lot for the idea of collaboration too.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 11, 2024 11:33 AM (D7oie)

249 I did not read LotR until my late 20s, Pappy Eromero was past 60 when he read it. We both saw the morality lessons.
Posted by: Eromero at August 11, 2024 11:30 AM (DXbAa)
---
Which is why they have to be perverted. Galadriel is now single, a macho sword-swinging girlboss with the hots for Sauron, who isn't bad, just misunderstood.

The orcs are victims.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:33 AM (llXky)

250 It could happen. I mean, we have Vikings, and they terrorized Europe.
Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 11, 2024 11:32 AM (kpS4V)

Yeah, but they always fade in the 4th quarter.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, Icky Weirdo at August 11, 2024 11:34 AM (Ad8y9)

251 If memory serves, a number of sf writers would, at the occasional party, type out a page or two and pass it to another writer and tell him to take it away, and he'd do a page or two and pass it on, just for the fun of it.
=====

'Just for the fun of it' may be key. Is there any other genre, including non-fiction, where collaboration works?

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 11, 2024 11:35 AM (WCgT6)

252 Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 11:32 AM (qdbNv)

He was a poor guy who hung around rich guys. That always has an effect. Whether good or bad for him , likely good.

Posted by: polynikes at August 11, 2024 11:35 AM (B1dzx)

253 I'll give you Casablanca. Completely different type of story. I'll admit I'm not a fan of black and white movies but I like Casablanca.
Range day so need to get ready.
Have a good one. This week's read is Butcher and Blackbird that someone recommended here. Have been on a very long wait list but all of a sudden my library bought more copies.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 11, 2024 11:36 AM (t/2Uw)

254 I know this is the Book Thread, not the Movie Thread, but no discussion of Casablanca is complete without some mention of this very well done 35 minute treatment:

https://youtu.be/ED3l5fWzFio

Watch it later today or this evening.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at August 11, 2024 11:36 AM (dg+HA)

255 'Just for the fun of it' may be key. Is there any other genre, including non-fiction, where collaboration works?
Posted by: mustbequantum at August 11, 2024 11:35 AM (WCgT6)
---
There are absolutely collaborations in non-fiction. In addition to co-authorship there are lots of compilations by different authors on a single topic, each writer approaching it from their area of expertise.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:37 AM (llXky)

256 'Just for the fun of it' may be key. Is there any other genre, including non-fiction, where collaboration works?
Posted by: mustbequantum at August 11, 2024 11:35 AM (WCgT6)

Mark Twain talked about being part of a literary magazine that was to have a central serial in it that was to be written by all of the participating authors, each contributing in turn, one per month. He said that they would be getting along fine, and then one of the authors would throw in a plot twist or a death or some bizarre event that the subsequent authors would have to scramble to include or compensate and get the story on an even keel, and then it would be that guys turn again to throw a wrench into the works.
I think he said the enterprise eventually died of despair

Posted by: Kindltot at August 11, 2024 11:39 AM (D7oie)

257 I recall when Team Yankee came out. It became a must read for every tanker and Cav guy I knew. Us Intel types poo-poo'd it for the treatment of the S-2. That part was over the top wrong.

Posted by: Diogenes at August 11, 2024 11:40 AM (W/lyH)

258 The Miskatonic University library I presume?

Posted by: Just another shambling horror at August 11, 2024 11:40 AM (q1Zxb)

259 Part of the problem with the writing in science fiction (and we're talking American genre SF here), is that the standard of writing was very low at the time many of the "classic" works were written. The Lensman series, by Smith, is great classic SF. It's also awful prose. Your English teacher sees the awful prose and isn't interested in the classic space opera.

But I would stack modern SF writers' technical abilities against that of any other contemporary fiction writers.

And of course, too often, "SF is badly written" is a code phrase for "I don't agree with Robert Heinlein's politics."

Posted by: Trimegistus at August 11, 2024 11:40 AM (78a2H)

260 "To me, it sounded like they were talking past each other, with each one having their own agenda in speaking, but not quite meeting each other in the middle."

---

Hmmm, I didn't get that sense. I thought perhaps the interviewer started with his own set of ideas, and Tolkien did his best to answer the questions, but maybe he didn't find the questions particularly compelling.

It's more like... if YOU had the opportunity to interview this man, what would YOU ask him? Certainly not these questions.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 11, 2024 11:40 AM (O5Zwo)

261 25
' The shelving picture makes me think of John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness. Who can say why?'

Probably because that green thing in a glass vat looks like the vat full of evil that was in the movie.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at August 11, 2024 11:41 AM (3wi/L)

262 I should note my aforementioned Guns of the World is a series of articles by different authors focusing on particular aspects of collecting. Very common in military history as well.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:41 AM (llXky)

263 In the movie Casablanca if you are wondering if Elsa really loved Rick the director made sure there was no romantic interaction between Elsa and Victor at all. At most it was a brother sister interaction that was portrayed.

Posted by: polynikes at August 11, 2024 11:41 AM (B1dzx)

264 . I fell in love with Nero Wolfe books once I read the line from "The Doorbell Rang".

"Madam, I am neither a thaumatuge nor a dunce." He had me at thaumaturge used properly. I've enjoyed the books ever since.
Posted by: JTB at August 11, 2024

***
My first was A Right to Die, in which Wolfe refers to a diphthong as being crucial to the solution of their mystery. At twelve I did not know what a diphthong was, but I loved the book anyway.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 11:42 AM (omVj0)

265 Without knowing more, it does seem your critic is off base. Space travel is pretty much a magic box and unless you want to go hard science and have it take place over the years between Earth and Mars, you have to come up with a mechanic, whether warp speed or jump gates/hyperspace.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:09 AM (llXky)

Well, all the criticism wasn't off base. A decision the MC made was a "dick move" per the reviewer, and I agree, so changed it. It was more the persons insistence I should use normal terms for things like time and space. But, I want to make clear the people are not humans and not in our galaxy. I don't see any reason for them to say "sun" instead of "star," or use "light speed" instead of "photon speed." I can understand using days, months, years, for the reader instead of time cycles and star revolutions to indicate time. I don't know where the reader quit though, so I don't have any feedback on "is the story any good?" or do you just not like it?

It make be a worthwhile story to write, or not. I don't know, and without a reader to read the complete story, I guess I'll never know.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 11, 2024 11:42 AM (0eaVi)

266 I think he said the enterprise eventually died of despair
Posted by: Kindltot at August 11, 2024 11:39 AM (D7oie)
-------------

Heh. One of the worst mystery books I ever read was a collaborative work done by the leading authors of the day. From what I remember, each author wrote one chapter.

My admittedly vague memory says it was an unholy mess.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at August 11, 2024 11:42 AM (tT6L1)

267 did not read LotR until my late 20s, Pappy Eromero was past 60 when he read it. We both saw the morality lessons.
Posted by: Eromero at August 11, 2024 11:30 AM (DXbAa)

Weekly update; still have 200 plus pages to go!

Posted by: LASue at August 11, 2024 11:42 AM (lCppi)

268 The shelving picture makes me think of John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness. Who can say why?'

I think that was John Steakley's other book.

Posted by: polynikes at August 11, 2024 11:42 AM (B1dzx)

269 I will admit to having today's guilty pleasure in the nightstand by my bed, along with a few other favorites.

Posted by: Diogenes at August 11, 2024 11:42 AM (W/lyH)

270 My wife has collaborated on several non-fiction works. One of them, The Encyclopedia of the Jesuits, took about ten years. I think that's the main drawback to collaboration, it just takes so much longer than doing something solo.

Posted by: Lincolntf at August 11, 2024 11:42 AM (x+zNV)

271 And of course, too often, "SF is badly written" is a code phrase for "I don't agree with Robert Heinlein's politics."
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 11, 2024 11:40 AM (78a2H)

fortunately for them, his politics spanned every position understood in America during his lifetime

Posted by: Kindltot at August 11, 2024 11:43 AM (D7oie)

272 I love good science fiction for two reasons:

New, mind-expanding ideas that make you look at the current world in a different way.

No-BS writing: none of the run-on sentence, stream-of-consciousness, navel-gazing nonsense that characterizes most 20th century fiction.

Alas, the publishing industry has decided that good science fiction is too disruptive to The Narrative, so now all you get is fantasy or girl-power woke garbage.

Posted by: Candidus at August 11, 2024 11:43 AM (32OXk)

273 There are successful collaborations in mystery and suspense too. The Ellery Queen books. Bill Pronzini has collaborated with John Lutz, I think, and Barry Malzberg. Believe Lawrence Block has done some as well, and maybe Westlake too.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 11, 2024 11:43 AM (q3u5l)

274 That's awesome to learn about Tolkien. Sorta the Robert Grave of Sci-fi or something? Nice to hear he wasn't a reprobate sex deviant and the rest of it. How refreshing!

That time of literature in high school for us got sort of strange, I was just not capable of getting so exercised about fictional characters in a book or TV show or movie. It seemed unhealthy to me. Rock music probably was no improvement, however.

Posted by: Common Tater at August 11, 2024 11:43 AM (oN30K)

275 I think he said the enterprise eventually died of despair
=====

Egos.

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 11, 2024 11:44 AM (WCgT6)

276 'Just for the fun of it' may be key. Is there any other genre, including non-fiction, where collaboration works?
Posted by: mustbequantum at August 11, 2024

***
Mystery. See Ellery Queen, Manning Coles, and the team that went by Q. Patrick, Patrick Quentin, and Jonathan Stagge at different times (and with different team members).

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 11:44 AM (omVj0)

277
'Just for the fun of it' may be key. Is there any other genre, including non-fiction, where collaboration works?
Posted by: mustbequantum at August 11, 2024 11:35 AM (WCgT6)

Naked Came the Stranger, by "Penelope Ashe"

"Mike McGrady was convinced that popular American literary culture had become so base - with the best-seller lists dominated by the likes of Harold Robbins and Jacqueline Susann - that any book could succeed if enough sex was thrown in. To test his theory, in 1966 McGrady recruited a team of Newsday colleagues to collaborate on a sexually explicit novel with no literary or social value whatsoever...

"The book fulfilled McGrady's cynical expectations, and sales soon reached 20,000 copies..."

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at August 11, 2024 11:44 AM (1Nxff)

278 Without knowing more, it does seem your critic is off base. Space travel is pretty much a magic box and unless you want to go hard science and have it take place over the years between Earth and Mars, you have to come up with a mechanic, whether warp speed or jump gates/hyperspace.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:09 AM (llXky)

If you could travel a thousand times the speed of light it would still take you 46 million years to reach the edge of the observable universe.

Posted by: polynikes at August 11, 2024 11:44 AM (B1dzx)

279 One thing in the E Book is one can make notes, and I did for good points in a book report, but other than paging through to find them don't see anywhere they got stored

Posted by: Skip at August 11, 2024 11:45 AM (fwDg9)

280 He was a poor guy who hung around rich guys. That always has an effect. Whether good or bad for him , likely good.
Posted by: polynikes at August 11, 2024 11:35 AM (B1dzx)
---
I think jealousy was absolutely part of it. Tolkien never pursued a doctorate because he could not afford it. He got honorary ones by the bucket, but never accepted being called "doctor," preferring "professor."

And then his books took off. Massive American sales in hardcover and paperback. I'm sure the Establishment loathed him for that. Evelyn Waugh's brother Alec did the same thing - even moving to America and churning out pot-boilers and selling scripts to Hollywood.

For most of their lifetimes, Alec outsold Evelyn and was more widely known in the States.

Anyhow, Tolkien's success absolutely enraged his peers.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:45 AM (llXky)

281
I think that's the main drawback to collaboration, it just takes so much longer than doing something solo.
Posted by: Lincolntf at August 11, 2024 11:42 AM (x+zNV)

Hadrian's Axiom: The amount of time to organize something is directly proportional to the cube of the number of people involved.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at August 11, 2024 11:46 AM (1Nxff)

282 Um, Tater . . .

I got some bad news for you about Robert Graves. He actually _was_ a reprobate sex deviant.

Posted by: Trimegistus at August 11, 2024 11:46 AM (78a2H)

283 Tolkien seems like another one of those "better check the crawlspace" kind of guys, maybe. Could be wrong.
Posted by: Common Tater at August 11, 2024 11:26 AM (oN30K)

Sounds more like your teenage mind objected to the whack job teacher assigning your a reading, and less like there was something wrong with Tolkien... or the book.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 11, 2024 11:46 AM (Z048x)

284 Elsa was Victor's beard, he was married to his cause only

Posted by: Skip at August 11, 2024 11:47 AM (fwDg9)

285 Part of the problem with the writing in science fiction (and we're talking American genre SF here), is that the standard of writing was very low at the time many of the "classic" works were written. The Lensman series, by Smith, is great classic SF. It's also awful prose. Your English teacher sees the awful prose and isn't interested in the classic space opera.

But I would stack modern SF writers' technical abilities against that of any other contemporary fiction writers. . . .

Posted by: Trimegistus at August 11, 2024

***
True. The best of the pulp fiction writers, aside from Heinlein's early spare prose, had great ideas and communicated them well . . . but their prose was workmanlike at best. Usually with more than a tinge of purple to it.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 11:48 AM (omVj0)

286 I've a copy of Venturinos "Lever Guns of the Old West" that is quite nice, and physically the copy and printing is pretty nice as well. I know offset printing and all that stuff is done overseas now (along with everything else) but I do like nice books. You know, where the pages don't turn yellow, they don't fall out.

Posted by: Common Tater at August 11, 2024 11:48 AM (oN30K)

287 Part of the problem with the writing in science fiction (and we're talking American genre SF here), is that the standard of writing was very low at the time many of the "classic" works were written. The Lensman series, by Smith, is great classic SF. It's also awful prose. Your English teacher sees the awful prose and isn't interested in the classic space opera.

With the internet, e-books, and self-publishing, it sometimes seems like the infinite number of monkeys hammering on typewriters to write Shakespeare are a reality.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at August 11, 2024 11:48 AM (cyitD)

288 Another nice one to have is "1 of a 1000" book on Winchesters. Reprints are maybe 50 bucks, and have everything they ever made, and includes a lot of interesting info on special order rifles and engraving. Perfect for the Outhouse, certainly.

Posted by: Common Tater at August 11, 2024 11:50 AM (oN30K)

289 Bringing us together.

Harris in Arizona: I Respect Your Pro-Hamas Voices

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I got 99 problems but Vance ain't one at August 11, 2024 11:50 AM (L/fGl)

290 If you could travel a thousand times the speed of light it would still take you 46 million years to reach the edge of the observable universe.
Posted by: polynikes at August 11, 2024 11:44 AM (B1dzx)
---
And yet the USS Enterprise reached the edge of the galaxy two or three times during the original series. They really got around!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:50 AM (llXky)

291 Other collaborations in SF: Larry NIven with Jerry Pournelle (one or two with Steven Barnes as well*) and even David Gerrold.

* You'd think a novel with three authors would be a mishmash. Not so with The Legacy of Heorot.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 11:50 AM (omVj0)

292 4 Elsa was Victor's beard, he was married to his cause only
Posted by: Skip at August 11, 2024 11:47 AM (fwDg9)

Apparently she in part was married to the cause also. I'm conflicted by my selfishness and the need to do what's right. That was the point of the movie IMO.

Posted by: polynikes at August 11, 2024 11:51 AM (B1dzx)

293 With the internet, e-books, and self-publishing, it sometimes seems like the infinite number of monkeys hammering on typewriters to write Shakespeare are a reality.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at August 11, 2024 11:48 AM (cyitD)

This.
Nothing more annoying than to really get into the scene in a story and have it ruined by poor grammar and spelling.

Posted by: Diogenes at August 11, 2024 11:52 AM (W/lyH)

294 * You'd think a novel with three authors would be a mishmash. Not so with The Legacy of Heorot.
=====

Fallen Angels.

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 11, 2024 11:52 AM (WCgT6)

295 yhow, Tolkien's success absolutely enraged his peers.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024

***
I've always wondered if the same thing happened with Robert B. Parker with his Spenser and other novels. He was a professor too; did his dissertation on Raymond Chandler and taught English at the college level. There are some satirical and less-than-flattering portraits in the Spenser and other books about dyed-in-the-tweed academics and their cluelessness. I wonder if his colleagues sneered behind his back at first, then raged when he was able to live only by writing and his income surged far beyond theirs.

Living well is the best revenge.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 11:53 AM (omVj0)

296 I got some bad news for you about Robert Graves. He actually _was_ a reprobate sex deviant.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 11, 2024 11:46 AM (78a2H)
---
Goodbye to All That is a pretty withering criticism of English public schools. It's allegations about encouraging homosexuality echo those of Alec Waugh's Loom of Youth, which created such a scandal that he was kicked out of the Old Sherbournians and his younger brother forbidden to attend. Public schools provide a vital social network in English society to this day, so Waugh's ban likely encouraged him to leave England altogether.

Meanwhile, Graves had a menage-et-trois going on.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:54 AM (llXky)

297
I've been intrigued by "out there" stuff, who isn't, when reading all the famous mysteries, why not have a little fun with weird archeology? I don't believe in "aliens built the pyramids", but the stonework there, and around the world in various granite, andesite, diorite - impossibly difficult to work with, achieving granite-plate precision polished surfaces and obvious circular saw or high feed rates, Petrie estimated a 1 turn in 60 core drill rate or about .1" per revolution of the drill. That is astonishing for granite.

Posted by: Common Tater at August 11, 2024 11:00 AM (oN30K)

It was a long time ago. The rocks were softer then.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at August 11, 2024 11:54 AM (ARwJH)

298 Well, the so-called real world intrudes.

Thanks for the thread, Perfessor.

Have a good one, gang.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 11, 2024 11:55 AM (q3u5l)

299 Apparently she in part was married to the cause also. I'm conflicted by my selfishness and the need to do what's right. That was the point of the movie IMO.
Posted by: polynikes at August 11, 2024 11:51 AM (B1dzx)
---
My choice for greatest film of all time. I limit my viewing to keep it fresh.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:56 AM (llXky)

300 Naked Came the Stranger is a 1969 novel written as a literary hoax poking fun at the American literary culture of its time. Though credited to "Penelope Ashe", it was in fact written by a group of twenty-four journalists led by Newsday columnist Mike McGrady.
McGrady's intention was to write a book that was both deliberately terrible and contained a lot of descriptions of sex, to illustrate the point that popular American literary culture had become mindlessly vulgar. The book fulfilled the authors' expectations and became a bestseller in 1969; they revealed the hoax later that year, further spurring the book's popularity.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I got 99 problems but Vance ain't one at August 11, 2024 11:56 AM (L/fGl)

301 "Mike McGrady was convinced that popular American literary culture had become so base - with the best-seller lists dominated by the likes of Harold Robbins and Jacqueline Susann -

Ah, the masters.

Posted by: Spock at August 11, 2024 11:56 AM (0eaVi)

302 If you could travel a thousand times the speed of light it would still take you 46 million years to reach the edge of the observable universe.
Posted by: polynikes at August 11, 2024 11:44 AM (B1dzx)
---
And yet the USS Enterprise reached the edge of the galaxy two or three times during the original series. They really got around!
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024

***
The unspoken deal was, I guess, that their "warp" speed affected space for them as well.

In James Blish's Spock Must Die, the early novel, JB makes it clear that it took a while to get around even Federation space. The entire story covers a couple of months as they travel toward the Klingon Empire.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 11, 2024 11:56 AM (omVj0)

303 Getting to be that time. Thanks again, Perfesser!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:57 AM (llXky)

304 Yes, I was about to say, "Hell, Robert Heinlein didn't agree with Robert Heinlein's politics!"

"his politics spanned every position understood in America during his lifetime" and quite a few that weren't.

Posted by: Way,Way Downriver at August 11, 2024 11:57 AM (zdLoL)

305 70
'I did feel better and my legs weren't sticking to the chair anymore.'

(struggles not to imagine Sharon without pants)

Posted by: Dr. Claw at August 11, 2024 11:58 AM (3wi/L)

306 If you could travel a thousand times the speed of light it would still take you 46 million years to reach the edge of the observable universe.
Posted by: polynikes at August 11, 2024 11:44 AM (B1dzx)

My story is only going from one galaxy to the next, and there's a worm-hole. Easy.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 11, 2024 11:58 AM (0eaVi)

307 >>> 114
=======
It was a theme for Piper throughout his works including his short story collection Empire and his pre history (using Freya) of exactly how Freyans were able to intermarry with Terrans. The answer is both Terrans and Freyans originated from a previous civilization based on Mars.
==
Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 10:07 AM (qdbNv)

whig, where did you see that the Freyans were another set of Martian escapees? I can't recall any reference to them except 'When in the Course'.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at August 11, 2024 11:58 AM (FnneF)

308 My choice for greatest film of all time. I limit my viewing to keep it fresh.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 11, 2024 11:56 AM (llXky)

Also on the top of my list.

Posted by: polynikes at August 11, 2024 11:59 AM (B1dzx)

309 I am familiar with punch-face, but the Tolkein interviewer is the first time Ive experienced a punch-voice.

Posted by: LASue at August 11, 2024 12:00 PM (lCppi)

310 Thanks to Perf and the Horde for another fine Book Thread!

Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 11, 2024 12:01 PM (kpS4V)

311 WE HAZ A NOOD

Posted by: Skip at August 11, 2024 12:01 PM (fwDg9)

312 Ohh! Hadrian beat me to Naked Came the Stranger!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I got 99 problems but Vance ain't one at August 11, 2024 12:01 PM (L/fGl)

313 79
'Interestingly, at the end, he says his book was not well-received by German audiences. I guess they didn't like being reminded of what they let go on right under their noses.'

That's a very good point. The fact that Shirer could easily see Germany's descent into criminal barbarism takes away any excuses from the German population.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at August 11, 2024 12:01 PM (3wi/L)

314 Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 11, 2024 11:58 AM (0eaVi)

You would need that worm hole since galaxies are about a million light years apart .

Posted by: polynikes at August 11, 2024 12:01 PM (B1dzx)

315 Just Some Guy @245, "Partner In Wonder" is a very fun read! I am especially fond of Ellison's collaboration with Avram Davidson "Up Christopher to Madness". A good story has the added pleasure of Ellison's and Davidson's contrasting accounts of how they were confronted by a street gang in NY in the early '60s.

Posted by: John F. MacMichael at August 11, 2024 12:03 PM (jjfDF)

316 What is the ~~airspeed of a laden swallow~~ half-life of a collapsed civilization? We see plenty of structures built by the Romans 2k+ years ago. If ours were to go kablooie, how long would it take for natural processes to break down enough of what we have such that any future archaeologists couldn't find enough to believe we existed?

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at August 11, 2024 12:04 PM (FnneF)

317 You would need that worm hole since galaxies are about a million light years apart .
Posted by: polynikes at August 11, 2024 12:01 PM (B1dzx)

That's why I used one!

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 11, 2024 12:04 PM (0eaVi)

318 I've been intrigued by "out there" stuff, who isn't, when reading all the famous mysteries, why not have a little fun with weird archeology? I don't believe in "aliens built the pyramids", but the stonework there, and around the world in various granite, andesite, diorite - impossibly difficult to work with, achieving granite-plate precision polished surfaces and obvious circular saw or high feed rates, Petrie estimated a 1 turn in 60 core drill rate or about .1" per revolution of the drill. That is astonishing for granite.

Blueprints were construction drawings which used a printing process that produces white lines on a dark blue background. In "A Canticle for Leibowitz," monks very carefully cover sheets of paper with huge amounts of blue ink, leaving the tiny white lines un-inked. Just sayin...

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at August 11, 2024 12:04 PM (cyitD)

319 how long would it take for natural processes to break down enough of what we have such that any future archaeologists couldn't find enough to believe we existed?
Posted by: Helena Handbasket at August 11, 2024 12:04 PM (FnneF)

A flood might get rid of everything.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 11, 2024 12:06 PM (0eaVi)

320 Well, thanks for the thread, Perfessor.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 11, 2024 12:07 PM (0eaVi)

321 Sharkman, if you haven't yet read Piatt's ebook "Honor Flight", don't read it. Trust me. Wait until he no longer writes any more Abner Fortis books.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes

Sadly, I have read it. Loved it, but I definitely wish that I hadn't read it, because it really should be read after the series has completed.

Posted by: Sharkman at August 11, 2024 12:07 PM (/RHNq)

322 Sadly, I have read it. Loved it, but I definitely wish that I hadn't read it, because it really should be read after the series has completed.
Posted by: Sharkman at August 11, 2024 12:07 PM (/RHNq)

Me too

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at August 11, 2024 12:08 PM (PiwSw)

323 A flood might get rid of everything.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 11, 2024 12:06 PM (0eaVi)

And somewhere, there would be a conglomerate rock full of stainless steel flatware...

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at August 11, 2024 12:12 PM (LsXht)

324 FWIW, I read the Stephen Ambrose biography of Eisenhower and enjoyed it. Unfortunately, I read it about 15 years ago and don't remember any specifics.

Posted by: Art Rondelet of Malmsey at August 11, 2024 12:15 PM (FEVMW)

325 My library as a "Lucky Day" section, featuring recent popular books available for checkout. Douglas Preston's "Extinction" was available, so I checked it out.

Great story, with callbacks to "Jurassic Park" and to his writing partner, Lincoln Childs. Besides the story, what I found interesting is the chapters are quite short. This allows for quick changes in POV characters but also allows me to feel a sense of accomplishment (I read three chapters today!). Since I read in bed, I usually finished a chapter before settling down to sleep. 1/2

Posted by: March Hare at August 11, 2024 12:17 PM (GyTRH)

326 Late to the party, as usual.

If any of you are looking for safe book recommendations geared towards young women/girls, I suggest you check out Bookish Princess on YouTube.
She does more than just books, lots of ( very wholesome) Disney vlogs, but her book videos are filled with excellent suggestions. I've discovered a lot of great authors through her, Elizabeth Goudge being the main one. Not sure why I've never come across her before.
Emma is a devout Catholic, and she has many suggestions for spiritual reading, as well. I'm not Catholic, but have enjoyed every one of the religious books she has recommended. She recommends books for various seasons on the Church calendar, Lent and Advent in particular. I've not read any of the Lenten books, but her Advent suggestions are wonderful.
She is just the sweetest, most wholesome person, with the loveliest vibe. Thor, who definitely likes his women a little on the trashy side, nonetheless enjoys watching her with me. She often collabs with other wholesome ladies. You won't have to censor anything she suggests to your bookwormish daughters and nieces! Her equally wholesome brothers occasionally make appearances and recommendations.

Posted by: Tammy-al Thor at August 11, 2024 12:22 PM (Vvh2V)

327 2/2 "Extinction"

The other part of the story I appreciated is the growing respect between the local (Male) Sheriff and the CIB Agent (female). Both are middle-aged, so have a few miles on them. Both are professional and good at what they do. Their relationship develops slowly before culminating...in a cup of coffee together.

The ending is open-ended enough that a sequel may be written. Or not.

Recommend.

Posted by: March Hare at August 11, 2024 12:22 PM (GyTRH)

328 >>> 202
==
However, I do have an issue with the idea of a worldwide culture that taught everyone farming: once a culture domesticates plants or animals, they tend to take those domesticates with them. Just look at Europeans lugging around wheat and horses and whatnot. If there was teacher-culture, shouldn't we have found their domesticates all around the world? It is the weak link in the argument...
Posted by: Castle Guy at August 11, 2024 11:02 AM (Lhaco)

I can think of some possibilities - there weren't enough of the domesticate critters remaining to have survived to present day, or we don't recognize them as domesticates today (they reverted to feral, or something else), or we do but we assume they were domesticated more recently that they really were.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at August 11, 2024 12:26 PM (FnneF)

329 Blueprints were construction drawings which used a printing process that produces white lines on a dark blue background. In "A Canticle for Leibowitz," monks very carefully cover sheets of paper with huge amounts of blue ink, leaving the tiny white lines un-inked. Just sayin...
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at August 11, 2024 12:04 PM (cyitD)

are you suggesting the Egyptians made the holes, first, and then carefully fitted the granite around it?

Posted by: Kindltot at August 11, 2024 12:36 PM (D7oie)

330 Lovely! (that was me, commenting on your X post)
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs!

Thank you!

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at August 11, 2024 12:38 PM (C6JOt)

331 are you suggesting the Egyptians made the holes, first, and then carefully fitted the granite around it?

Posted by: Kindltot at August 11, 2024 12:36 PM (D7oie)

A character in the novel wonders if they are doing it wrong, and blueprints are artifacts of a technology that has been lost.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at August 11, 2024 12:44 PM (cyitD)

332 That's a very good point. The fact that Shirer could easily see Germany's descent into criminal barbarism takes away any excuses from the German population.
____

*shifty eyes*

Posted by: Great Britain, circa 2024 at August 11, 2024 12:48 PM (fs1hN)

333 Late joining since I went out to mow now that we aren't dealing with UNHOLY HEAT AND HUMIDITY!!

I had forgotten about Terry Brooks "Word and the Void" series. I read them many years ago. Probably have some of them still (in a box, likely in the garage or storage unit).

So will likely add them to my Kindle collection. Since wife passed, the tablet has been my way to escape and relax a little. It's also helps that I can change font size as I get older (and my vision gets a little degraded).

-SLV

Posted by: Shy Lurking Voter at August 11, 2024 01:03 PM (e/Osv)

334 Those pants would cause panda-monium.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at August 11, 2024 01:04 PM (ynpvh)

335 Not sure if I've mentioned it here before, but every night Pooky reads two chapters of "The Chronicles of Narnia" to Lil Pooky (and Pookette listens in, of course). I found out that Lil Pooky WILL throw a tantrum if he doesn't get reading time-punches and kicks for a solid twenty minutes the one time we missed it. If it's reading time, I can feel him shift into "position" to listen to Pooky. Next up on the list is "The Hobbit." We won't get very far on that one before my due date, but as I said, it hurts when we don't read. Literally.

Posted by: pookysgirl, raising two book addicts at August 11, 2024 01:18 PM (dtlDP)

336 The H. Beam Piper stories from the Sword Worlds period of the Terro-Humano History mused a bit on that, how societies decivilize, ...
Posted by: Kindltot
=======
It was a theme for Piper throughout his works including his short story collection Empire and his pre history (using Freya) of exactly how Freyans were able to intermarry with Terrans. The answer is both Terrans and Freyans originated from a previous civilization based on Mars.

We had a tragic loss of a great sci fi writer when Piper killed himself. He was reduced to severe poverty due to his agent dying leaving his affairs in a mess and he was too proud to ask assistance. There were actually several pending sales of Piper manuscripts that the agent made that Piper never was aware of.
Posted by: whig at August 11, 2024 10:07 AM (qdbNv)

Piper was a great author. A frequent theme was one man making a difference.

I seem to recall reading that he had just gone through a nasty divorce just before he killed himself.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at August 11, 2024 01:20 PM (pJWtt)

337 Good morning Hordemates.
After nearly forty years I finally laid down some coin and bought a book by Ralph Peters. The book is Red Army. Why so long? Ralph used to be one of my students at the Army's Intel School. A really obnoxious guy. But a really brilliant obnoxious guy. I had vowed never to buy on of his books. But as I had heard and read, he writes a good book. Red Army is a very good read and I console myself for buying it as I got it on sale. I recommend it to those who like to see how a war in Europe, NATO vs the Soviets might have been like.
Posted by: Diogenes at August 11, 2024 10:19 AM (W/lyH)

Ralph Peters: yet another person driven insane by Donald Trump winning the Presidency.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at August 11, 2024 01:23 PM (pJWtt)

338 @168/Shadout Mapes, and @321/Sharkman:

What category of information did Piatt include in "Honor Flight" that made you both agree that this book should not be read until the rest of the "Abner Fortis International Space Marine Corps" have been written and published?

Was it revealed information that spoil things in the main books better experienced/revealed there? "Honor Flight" on the author's website (under the "Stand Alone Books" section) as "The birth of the International Space Marine Corps." which would seem to make that a prequel.

I'll heed your warning, I'd just like to understand the why of it a bit better, and thank you in advance if you came back to the Book Thread later and saw/replied to my comment!

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at August 11, 2024 02:33 PM (O7YUW)

339 Late entry:

Hey, CBD, you asked this question up thread:

Anyone read Don Winslow?

He is a rancid leftist, but the guy can write.

I am torn...
Posted by: CharlieGray'sDildo at August 11, 2024 11:27 AM (d9fT1)

I started reading Don Winslow back in the 90s starting with, "California Fire and Life"- a great mystery/thriller by the way if you haven't read it.

And stuck with him for years. He became one of my faves. Every book I read by him was excellent, until-

"Savages", which was just a complete slobbering blowjob of Obama. Though it had nothing to do with the story, Winslow constantly dumped his political opinions into the novel. Complete cringing cuckery for Obama.

He totally lost my respect and I stopped reading him.

Though to be fair, he's supposed to still be writing excellent novels. Don't care. I no longer have any respect for him as a writer. He thinks being a Dim propagandist is more important.

YMMV.

Posted by: naturalfake at August 11, 2024 02:38 PM (eDfFs)

340 Posted by: Shy Lurking Voter at August 11, 2024 01:03 PM (e/Osv)

I'm glad you have a way to relax and escape. And I'm glad you're delurking some, too! 😊

Posted by: Tammy-al Thor at August 11, 2024 02:48 PM (Vvh2V)

341 Late, late entry.

@256 --

Robert Asprin said, "You write your first Thieves' World story for money, and all the rest for revenge."

Posted by: Weak Geek at August 11, 2024 04:09 PM (p/isN)

342 The lead picture is of a reference librarian, correct?

Posted by: Sssshhhhhhhhhh at August 11, 2024 07:31 PM (TKQrs)

343 "United States Mint and the Bureau of Engraving and Printing does a pretty good job of producing our coins and bills. "

Actually, if you look honestly at the artistic merit of current currency (bills and coins) compared to that of the late 1800's and early 1900's, I think you'd have to admit the current guys do a pretty crappy job.

Posted by: ruralcounsel at August 12, 2024 08:50 AM (diMhW)

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