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Trump's Defense Rests

His legal team figures he's way ahead on points.

I know that the jury of curated ultra-partisans will probably convict anyway, but if the jury is rigged, then Trump's testimony would not help anyway.

Does this mean Trump is finally permitted to campaign for president? Or is this c***sucker judge going to insist he remain in court for every day the jury deliberates?

That can't be the case. Can it?

Update: Unbelievable. The crooked judge gave the jurors a week off, then they'll reconvene to hear opening arguments. Only after that will they begin to deliberate.

This guy really wants Trump locked in his court scheduling, huh?


Jonathan Turley blasts the corrupt partisan "hand-picked" judge Merchan.

First he goes through the perjuries and uncharged grand larcenies of Michael Cohen.

And the fact that he says he might run for Congress. He actually said that. He's got a whole Carlos Danger career plan mapped out.

Then he turns to the judge helping his daughter collect money.


Merchan has not given any indication that he is seriously considering a directed verdict, which he should clearly grant before this goes to the jury.

Merchan's rulings have largely favored the prosecution, including some rulings that left some of us mystified.

Judge Merchan continues to allow the jury to hear references to campaign-finance violations that do not exist.

After gutting any use of a legal expert to testify on the absence of any such violations, the judge allowed the jury to hear Michael Cohen state that the payments to Stormy Daniels were clearly campaign violations.

All that Merchan would offer is a weak instruction telling jurors not to take such statements as proof of a violation.

The alleged campaign-finance violations allowed Cohen to try to implicate Trump. However, it is doubtful that Trump could have been convicted on such a charge in any other venue.

...

Indeed, after reviewing the Trump payments, not only did the Justice Department decline any charges but the Federal Election Commission did not even seek a civil fine.

On Monday, Judge Merchan's orders became even more inexplicable when Cohen's former attorney Robert Costello took the stand.

Merchan immediately started to sustain a flurry of prosecutors' objections as Costello basically accused Cohen of multiple acts of perjury.

At one point, Costello -- one of the most experienced lawyers in New York and a former prosecutor -- exclaimed that one of the judge's rulings was "ridiculous."

The judge chastised Costello and even challenged him: "Are you staring me down?"

In fact, it was hard not to stare. What is happening in the courtroom of Judge Juan Merchan is anything but ordinary.

Posted by: Disinformation Expert Ace at 01:30 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 last

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at May 21, 2024 01:29 PM (cD1dp)

2 Howdy!

Posted by: Moonbeam at May 21, 2024 01:30 PM (rbKZ6)

3 Can anybody tell me where I am ...

Posted by: zombie Glenn Miller at May 21, 2024 01:31 PM (TTAGa)

4 Does this mean Trump is finally permitted to campaign for president? Or is this c***sucker judge going to insist he remain in court for every day the jury deliberates?
---
I'm sure if the judge had his way, Trump would be campaigning from inside a pine box.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 21, 2024 01:32 PM (7fElN)

5 That judge is a lunatic.

Posted by: Seems Legit at May 21, 2024 01:32 PM (JeYYB)

6 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 21, 2024 01:32 PM (IXZGh)

7 I know that the jury of curated ultra-partisans will probably convict anyway, but if the jury is rigged, then Trump's testimony would not help anyway.
++++
Best possible outcome is a hung jury.

And if that happens - or the 99-sigma event that an acquittal would be - then Cohen is the patsy.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 01:32 PM (d04cU)

8 Unless they actually got a stealth Conservative on the Jury, I'm thinking they will find him guilty.. Now if they would just tell us what the crime he's being charged with is...

Posted by: It's me donna at May 21, 2024 01:32 PM (Akjoo)

9 And the fact that he says he might run for Congress. He actually said that. He's got a whole Carlos Danger career plan mapped out.
++++
Something tells me that 'ole Carlos was more honest.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 01:32 PM (d04cU)

10 'Cocksucker' in an underrated pejorative.

Posted by: Heavy Meta at May 21, 2024 01:32 PM (NgqoH)

11 Just know that the same judge has been appointed in the Bannon case as well.

Wonder how THAT happened.......

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 21, 2024 01:33 PM (IXZGh)

12 Well of course he's guilty, he's Trump.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at May 21, 2024 01:33 PM (g9W3m)

13 That judge is a lunatic.
Posted by: Seems Legit at May 21, 2024 01:32 PM (JeYYB)
-

No. Evil and corrupt.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at May 21, 2024 01:33 PM (aJWJO)

14 "3 Can anybody tell me where I am ..."

Still at the bottom of the English Channel.

Posted by: Martbell at May 21, 2024 01:33 PM (GSUeT)

15 In fact, it was hard not to stare. What is happening in the courtroom of Judge Juan Merchan is anything but ordinary.
++++
Back in the Before Times, maybe.

Nowadays, it's pretty ordinary.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 01:33 PM (d04cU)

16 How does one decide where to go with this? This is happening. Are we supposed to behave as if it's normal?

I guess it's like the old days, when the mafia would strut around the neighborhood, roughing up anyone who dared stare them down, or smash windows, break faces, take money out of the till from any business they want.

And the people just take it. Rule by thuggery.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 21, 2024 01:34 PM (dGCAG)

17 Best possible outcome is a hung jury.

And if that happens - or the 99-sigma event that an acquittal would be - then Cohen is the patsy.
Posted by: Joe Mannix

Exactly what I'm thinking! Trump has to be in court every day, in case a verdict is reached, so he can't campaign. It's CRITICAL to have a decision before the election, to save Democracy, so that jury is going to have to deliberate, for months if necessary, until they reach a verdict.

Posted by: Judge Meerkat at May 21, 2024 01:34 PM (JCZqz)

18 What does this have to do with Phineas and Ferb?

Posted by: wth at May 21, 2024 01:35 PM (v0R5T)

19 The judge chastised Costello and even challenged him: "Are you staring me down?"


"Just trying to figure out who exactly you think you are, Lord God King Bufu."

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 21, 2024 01:35 PM (IXZGh)

20 Even I think this Merchan kook needs to dial it back.

Posted by: Zombie Roland Freisler at May 21, 2024 01:35 PM (v6JzV)

21 I start to get the feeling that the incompetent trial followed by a rigged verdict is deliberate.

Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 01:35 PM (IHRQq)

22 'Cocksucker' in an underrated pejorative.

Posted by: Heavy Meta at May 21, 2024 01:32 PM (NgqoH)

Truth!

Posted by: Al Swearengen at May 21, 2024 01:35 PM (xPl2J)

23 Surely, Marchan's family tree has roots in Australia?

I mean, how else does he explain his Kangaroo Court?

G'day, mate!



Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at May 21, 2024 01:35 PM (e6UQI)

24 Every person in that courtroom are only there to screw Trump. It's similar to the Philadelphia courts. The thugs get minor probation and actual citizens get ten to fifteen years.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at May 21, 2024 01:35 PM (d2bW3)

25 Respect my authoritay!
Judge Merchan

Posted by: steevy at May 21, 2024 01:35 PM (FQmDC)

26 'Cocksucker' in an underrated pejorative.
Posted by: Heavy Meta at May 21, 2024 01:32 PM (NgqoH)



This is about me, isn't it......

Posted by: Kumswala Harris at May 21, 2024 01:35 PM (IXZGh)

27 A fetid banana republic.

Posted by: mr tmz at May 21, 2024 01:36 PM (rJ48h)

28 Still at the bottom of the English Channel.
Posted by: Martbell at May 21, 2024 01:33 PM (GSUeT)

Where am I in the US Top 40?

Posted by: zombie Glenn Miller at May 21, 2024 01:36 PM (TTAGa)

29 Doesn't matter--the jury will convict and BOM is going to jail.

Posted by: gavalmac at May 21, 2024 01:36 PM (BudYP)

30 'Cocksucker' in an underrated pejorative.
Posted by: Heavy Meta at May 21, 2024 01:32 PM (NgqoH)


Ian McShane as Al Swearengin from Deadwood has entered the chat

Posted by: Doof at May 21, 2024 01:36 PM (h0Z+I)

31 Him: "Are you staring me down?"
Me: "You are getting very sleepy. Your eyelids are heavy. You feel yourself falling into a trance."
Him: "Confined 180 days for Contempt!"

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at May 21, 2024 01:36 PM (MvF+J)

32 Kangaroo court.
Not about justice.

Posted by: Erebus- ex-killer whale at May 21, 2024 01:36 PM (7GPTo)

33 Surely, Marchan's family tree has roots in Australia?

Posted by: Jim at May 21, 2024 01:35 PM (e6UQI)
-

Marchan >>> Marsupial

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at May 21, 2024 01:37 PM (aJWJO)

34 Best possible outcome is a hung jury.

And if that happens - or the 99-sigma event that an acquittal would be - then Cohen is the patsy.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)
-------------
Agree.

Posted by: scampydog at May 21, 2024 01:37 PM (2bFN5)

35 That kangaroo was guilty. Throw the book at him!

Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 01:37 PM (IHRQq)

36 ++++
Something tells me that 'ole Carlos was more honest.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 01:32 PM (d04cU)




Heheheheh...... Hey babeh.....

Posted by: Carlos Butthead at May 21, 2024 01:37 PM (IXZGh)

37 From the last thread:

"What ever happened to the Commencement speeches that commended the Graduates for their accomplishments and to go forth and make your mark in the World ?
Posted by: It's me donna"

Speaker at my daughter's graduation this weekend did just that. He also added that everyone should learn real American history for themselves and thank God they're privileged to live in this country.

Posted by: Zombie Robbo the Llama Butcher at May 21, 2024 01:38 PM (T+Iwg)

38 Dershowitz ,who is no friend of Trump' s ,was there and said that Costello was not staring the Judge down ... The Judge just freaked out

Posted by: It's me donna at May 21, 2024 01:38 PM (Akjoo)

39 'Cocksucker' in an underrated pejorative.
Posted by: Heavy Meta at May 21, 2024 01:32 PM (NgqoH)


In my younger days I saw a woman wearing a shirt that read 'You say cocksucker like it's a bad thing'. Certainly of questionable appropriateness for public attire but she made a good point.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at May 21, 2024 01:38 PM (U7wke)

40 Brad Smith @CommishSmith
Judge Merchan has so restricted my testimony that defense has decided not to call me. Now, it’s elementary that the judge instructs the jury on the law, so I understand his reluctance.

But the Federal Election Campaign Act is very complex. Even Antonin Scalia—a pretty smart guy, even you hate him—once said “this [campaign finance] law is so intricate that I can’t figure it out.

Picture a jury in a product liability case trying to figure out if a complex machine was negligently designed, based only on a boilerplate recitation of the general definition of “negligence.” They’d be lost without knowing technology & industry norms.

Someone has to bring that knowledge to the jury. That—not the law—was my intended testimony. For example, part of the state’s case is that they wrongly reported what they knew to be a campaign expenditure in order to hide the payment until after the election.

Cohen even testified they just wanted to get past the election.

Posted by: andycanuck (ZdexC) at May 21, 2024 01:38 PM (ZdexC)

41 Brad Smith @CommishSmith
so, we were going to go over the reporting schedules, showing that even if they thought it was a campaign expenditure to be reported, an expenditure made on October 27 (when $$ sent to Daniels atty) would not, under law, be reported until Dec. 8, a full 30 days after election but While judge wouldn’t let me testify on meaning of law, he allowed Michael Cohen to go on at length about whether and how his activity violated FECA. So effectively, the jury got its instructions on FECA from Michael Cohen!

judge Merchand has asked the sides to submit further proposed instructions on FECA, and then I assume they’ll argue it out. I’m not optimistic.

So you’ve got a judge who contributed to Trump’s opponent presiding over a trial by a prosecutor who was elected on a vow to get Trump, for something DOJ and FEC chose not to prosecute, on a far-fetched legal theory I which the prosecution has been allowed …

To repeatedly misstate the law or elicit incorrect statements of law from witnesses (and unlike Cohen’s, my testimony would not have gone to the ultimate legal issue). The judge’s bias is very evident.

Why do pluralities of Americans see Biden as a greater threat

Posted by: andycanuck (ZdexC) at May 21, 2024 01:38 PM (ZdexC)

42 Or is this c***sucker judge going to insist he remain in court for every day the jury deliberates?

-----

I doubt they'll "deliberate" more than a day. They might not even bother with a fig leaf like that. Wouldn't surprise me if they came back in one hour, so that nobody has to miss an episode of The View tomorrow.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at May 21, 2024 01:38 PM (EgEy5)

43 The judge chastised Costello and even challenged him: "Are you staring me down?"

Do you need TP for your bunghole?

Posted by: Erebus- ex-killer whale at May 21, 2024 01:38 PM (7GPTo)

44 [Why do pluralities of Americans see Biden as a greater threat to democracy than Trump? It’s in part because of farces like this trial.]

Posted by: andycanuck (ZdexC) at May 21, 2024 01:39 PM (ZdexC)

45 Turley is master of the understatement. Merchan is an evil lunatic and showing everyone that New York is so corrupt that you're better off completely avoiding it.

Posted by: Eddie Baby at May 21, 2024 01:39 PM (s19xO)

46 Fuck the corrupt just us system.

Posted by: If you trust authority you're a fool at May 21, 2024 01:39 PM (Wc83a)

47 That kangaroo was guilty. Throw the book at him!
Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 01:37 PM (IHRQq)



Australians think kangaroos are nuisance animals and should be shot on site.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 21, 2024 01:39 PM (IXZGh)

48 "I've got to imagine in all the years you practice law, have you ever seen anything like this?" Hannity asked.

"No, I never have," Dershowitz replied. "I sat in the front row, literally just feet away from where all the action occurred. I rolled my eyes when the judge made some rulings that were absurd. Any first-year evidence student would understand that he was making biased rulings in favor of one side."

"I stared him down, but Costello didn't," Dershowitz continued. "He acted like a normal witness, and the judge went berserk.

Posted by: SMOD at May 21, 2024 01:39 PM (RHGPo)

49 Side boob > Side eye.

Posted by: Zek at May 21, 2024 01:39 PM (5FPX4)

50 The man who should be in GTMO in chains has crawled out from under his rock to weigh in.

https://x.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1792970013252497766

Posted by: Maj. Healey at May 21, 2024 01:39 PM (aFNOf)

51 The headlines on every newspaper in America should read ----- TRUMP REFUSES TO TESTIFY!

Of course Trump will not take the stand and get sworn in. No lawyer would let him. Remember Trump’s lawyer Ty Cobb who told him if he testified that he would not look good in a prison orange jumpsuit? Ty quit being Trump’s lawyer shortly after that.

the only logical conclusion is that LOSER45 IS A COWARD OR is afraid of perjuring himself. COWARD, LOSER, RAPIST, TRAITOR, INSURRECTIONIST FRAUD. LOL. All my terms are legally true.

Everyone knows he's guilty. Lock him up.

With respect to the inevitable appeal. As with the Carroll case, his lawyers will not be able to introduce new evidence, having chosen not to introduce it at trial.

Does the gag order elapses after the sides rest? Or does he have to shut up until the verdict comes in? I hope he has to shut up as long as possible.

Posted by: Intercepted DU Transmissions brought by the Intrepid AoS Liaison at May 21, 2024 01:39 PM (JCZqz)

52 Merchan immediately started to sustain a flurry of prosecutors' objections as Costello basically accused Cohen of multiple acts of perjury.

------------

Michael Cohen to be indicted for admitted Grand Larceny and Perjury in 3 .. 4 .. 5 ...

Falsus in Uno, Falsus in Omnibus.

Posted by: ShainS -- Blood-Bath-and-Beyond angel investor at May 21, 2024 01:40 PM (VXJx/)

53 surveys show that 100 percent of gnats will not be voting this except, except maybe in some parts of philadelphia and atlanta

Posted by: gnats local 678 at May 21, 2024 01:40 PM (B1FKF)

54 "What ever happened to the Commencement speeches that commended the Graduates for their accomplishments"

At one of my graduations, Chris Hedges was the speaker, chewing us out for fighting against Al Qaeda. There was grumbling from the crowd.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at May 21, 2024 01:40 PM (MvF+J)

55 'Cocksucker' in an underrated pejorative.
Posted by: Heavy Meta

*Nods*

Posted by: Mr. Wu at May 21, 2024 01:40 PM (RMngd)

56 Australians think kangaroos are nuisance animals and should be shot on site.
Posted by: Sponge


Maybe they should start with the tiger snakes and taipans.

Posted by: Zombie Roland Freisler at May 21, 2024 01:40 PM (v6JzV)

57 All that Merchan would offer is a weak instruction telling jurors not to take such statements as proof of a violation.
++++
And, rumor has it, ordered jurors not to listen to Costello.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 01:40 PM (d04cU)

58 Kangaroos are called Joey's in Australia. Biden's a Kangaroo.

Posted by: Maj. Healey at May 21, 2024 01:40 PM (aFNOf)

59 Are you lookin at my legs?

Posted by: Jusge "Moose" Merchan at May 21, 2024 01:41 PM (hCzfy)

60 David Asman @DavidAsmanfox 17h
It appears Judge Merchan will prevent former FEC Chair Brad Smith—a solid, credible witness—on to rebut some of the self-serving testimony of prosecution witnesses. And Merchan allowed Stormy Daniels’ salacious testimony, which was devoid of relevance to the case. Pure prejudice.

Mike Benz @MikeBenzCyber 13h
Insane. They literally prevent the defendant from presenting a defense. The whole case is an FEC issue & the crooked judge won’t let *the former head of the FEC* testify because it would help Trump.

Never conflate a trial with justice. New York courts have zero legitimacy.

Posted by: andycanuck (ZdexC) at May 21, 2024 01:41 PM (ZdexC)

61 the only logical conclusion is that LOSER45 IS A COWARD OR is afraid of perjuring himself. COWARD, LOSER, RAPIST, TRAITOR, INSURRECTIONIST FRAUD. LOL. All my terms are legally true.

Everyone knows he's guilty. Lock him up.

Insane

Posted by: It's me donna at May 21, 2024 01:41 PM (Akjoo)

62 51 Everyone knows he's guilty. Lock him up.

Posted by: Intercepted DU Transmissions brought by the Intrepid AoS Liaison at May 21, 2024 01:39 PM (JCZqz)

========

Of what? Illegally storing classified information in a private server in an unsecured bathroom?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at May 21, 2024 01:41 PM (cD1dp)

63 The Democrat-Communists need a criminal conviction before the election. This case apparently is the only chance. So, he will be convicted, and they don't care about reversal on appeal because that will be long, long after the election. See Gov. McDonnell; Sen. Stevens.

Posted by: Anti-Faucist at May 21, 2024 01:41 PM (qUkBO)

64 Oops, off Nazi judge sock!

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 21, 2024 01:41 PM (v6JzV)

65 Any animal that might decide to arbitrarily punch me or kick me in the face should be shot on sight.

Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 01:41 PM (Ectld)

66 If you want to know why they stormed the Bastille just take a look at Judge Merchan.
What a ridiculous martinet.

Posted by: Zek at May 21, 2024 01:41 PM (5FPX4)

67 If the worst happens and conviction fails, Cohen is finished.

Cohen is probably finished anyway. He should call up Avenatti for some pointers about what comes next.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 01:41 PM (d04cU)

68 and while trump can't get more than 20 percent of the vote in manhattan, i suspect a lot of those same people like him as a personality and in this case might give him the benefit of doubt

Posted by: gnats local 678 at May 21, 2024 01:42 PM (B1FKF)

69 In fact, it was hard not to stare. What is happening in the courtroom of Judge Juan Merchan is anything but ordinary.

With apologies to Robert Palmer.

How can it be permissible
He ignores legal principles, yeah yeah
The overt graft is mythical
He's anything but typical
He's a whore but of course, he's a powerful force
You're obliged to conform when there's no other course
He used to look wrong to me, but now I find him
Simply unacceptable


Posted by: Archimedes at May 21, 2024 01:42 PM (CsUN+)

70 I think though, the biggest sign that the jury is not going to convict is the overwhelming stories, every step of the way, that said each new testimony was "damming," or a bombshell, etc

But my favorite was Investor's Business Daily (don't let the name fool you, it's hard, hard left) with "we had AI read the transcripts and they found Trump guilty."
GIGO, and they had to force it to choose. Before any defense testimony. And overlook the credibility of Cohen.

Talk about trying to cheer the choir. If they had to resort to that, it's bad.
And keep in mind: All the legal experts on this are the same who assured everyone the CO 14th Amendment case was legally sound. And had a good chance at SCOTUS.
None but none predicted losing 9-0.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at May 21, 2024 01:42 PM (g9W3m)

71 Big Ears: What are you looking at? You looking at my ears?
Frank Sheeran: I ain't looking at your ears.
Big Ears: I had an operation, so there's no need for anyone looking at my ears anymore.
Frank Sheeran: I ain't looking at your ears.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at May 21, 2024 01:42 PM (MvF+J)

72 I think Merchan's a hero to the left right now. There's been a spate of judges, DA's and prosecutors that have really gone off the deep end in an effort "to get Trump."

I don't think there's any going back now. This is how justice is going to be meted out to anyone not aligned with the left.

That includes most everyone here.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at May 21, 2024 01:42 PM (Q4IgG)

73 70 Talk about trying to cheer the choir. If they had to resort to that, it's bad.
And keep in mind: All the legal experts on this are the same who assured everyone the CO 14th Amendment case was legally sound. And had a good chance at SCOTUS.
None but none predicted losing 9-0.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at May 21, 2024 01:42 PM (g9W3m)

========

It would entertain if their legal analysis failed that badly once more.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at May 21, 2024 01:43 PM (cD1dp)

74
the only logical conclusion is that LOSER45 IS A COWARD OR is afraid of perjuring himself. COWARD, LOSER, RAPIST, TRAITOR, INSURRECTIONIST FRAUD. LOL. All my terms are legally true.



Everything that guy just said is bullshit.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 21, 2024 01:43 PM (IXZGh)

75 If Trump gets off, Merchan's not going to be around much longer, I bet.

Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 01:44 PM (Ectld)

76 My pussy once bit a judge right in his chambers.

Posted by: Mrs. Slocombe at May 21, 2024 01:44 PM (Zz86T)

77 Posted by: Intercepted DU Transmissions brought by the Intrepid AoS Liaison at May 21, 2024 01:39 PM (JCZqz)
----
Those legal eagles are a bit hazy on the concept of the right not to incriminate oneself...

EVERYTHING Trump said on the stand WOULD be used to hang him, regardless of what he said in his own defense.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 21, 2024 01:44 PM (7fElN)

78 I would search for and link "every time 'cocksucker' was said on Deadwood" but I don't want to blow my bandwidth usage budget for the rest of the year.

Posted by: andycanuck (ZdexC) at May 21, 2024 01:44 PM (ZdexC)

79
Then: Roland Freisler

Now: Juan Merchan

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 21, 2024 01:44 PM (MoZTd)

80 Has David French the Apostate made the case for corrupt communist judges?

Posted by: Northernlurker at May 21, 2024 01:45 PM (JLq/1)

81 Trump "utes"???

Posted by: andycanuck (ZdexC) at May 21, 2024 01:45 PM (ZdexC)

82 80 Has David French the Apostate made the case for corrupt communist judges?
Posted by: Northernlurker at May 21, 2024 01:45 PM (JLq/1)

=========

"If fundamentalist Christians who love Trump more than Jesus and drag queens aren't rounded up and put into re-education camps as a result of this, then my name isn't Jesus H. Christ."
-David French

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at May 21, 2024 01:45 PM (cD1dp)

83 I doubt Merchan's french bulldog respects him, why should anyone else?

Posted by: Zek at May 21, 2024 01:45 PM (5FPX4)

84 Dershowitz ,who is no friend of Trump' s ,was there and said that Costello was not staring the Judge down ... The Judge just freaked out

Gee, he doesn't sound like someone being defensive because he knows what he's doing is wrong. No, nothing like that.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 21, 2024 01:46 PM (CsUN+)

85 HotAir needs your direct support to stay in the fight.

Posted by: Uh, no. at May 21, 2024 01:46 PM (v0R5T)

86 Everybody here knows that the jury is going to convict Trump on all counts, that he is going to get the maximum sentence, and is going to be sent to jail without any chance of bail because he will be deemed a flight risk, right? Trump might get bail later on appeal but will he be gagged and prevented from leaving the state of New York.
The Democrats wouldn't go to all the trouble to rig the 2020 election if they weren't going to rig the trials and the 2024 election.

Posted by: BetaCuck4Lyfe at May 21, 2024 01:46 PM (9aVck)

87 If Cohen got up on the stand and lied repeatedly, why would a sane juror take his word for what constitutes a campaign violation?
.........

Oh, right, I'm assuming there are sane jurors on that panel.

Posted by: Octochicken at May 21, 2024 01:46 PM (oCS0o)

88 Everyone's become so blase about brazen, in-your-face injustice. Since 2020, we've seen hundreds of innocent people--most of whom sharing our beliefs--wrongfully investigated, arrested, tried, and convicted by corrupt governmental agencies, authoritarian law enforcement entities, hyper-partisan judges, and blatantly biased juries.

Where's the redline here? At what point do we say enough, this far and no further? I'd genuinely like to know.

Posted by: troyriser at May 21, 2024 01:47 PM (dsdI5)

89 The only logical conclusion is that LOSER45 IS A COWARD OR is afraid of perjuring himself. COWARD, LOSER, RAPIST, TRAITOR, INSURRECTIONIST FRAUD. LOL. All my terms are legally true.

Everyone knows he's guilty. Lock him up.

-------------------
This is a quote from Merchan, right? Sure sounds like it.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at May 21, 2024 01:47 PM (Q4IgG)

90 Best possible outcome is a hung jury.
And if that happens - or the 99-sigma event that an acquittal would be - then Cohen is the patsy.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 01:32 PM (d04cU)
~~~~~

If we get a hung jury, the government can re-try him and I have no doubt that they would do that immediately, crushing whatever campaign time PDT has left.

Sometimes I think I would rather see a guilty verdict so they can appeal, which would likely take months.

Isn't there a higher court that could step in and put an end to this mess?

Posted by: IrishEi at May 21, 2024 01:47 PM (3ImbR)

91 I doubt Merchan's french bulldog respects him, why should anyone else?
Posted by: Zek at May 21, 2024 01:45 PM (5FPX4)

Bastard gave me monkeypox.

Posted by: Merchan's French Bulldog at May 21, 2024 01:47 PM (EgEy5)

92 "Where's the redline here? At what point do we say enough, this far and no further? I'd genuinely like to know."

Yes. So would we.

Posted by: Bob at NSA at May 21, 2024 01:47 PM (5FPX4)

93 Any animal that might decide to arbitrarily punch me or kick me in the face should be shot on sight.
Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 01:41 PM (Ectld)
......

Or run over by a Holden.

Posted by: wth at May 21, 2024 01:47 PM (v0R5T)

94 Everyone's become so blase about brazen, in-your-face injustice. Since 2020, we've seen hundreds of innocent people--most of whom sharing our beliefs--wrongfully investigated, arrested, tried, and convicted by corrupt governmental agencies, authoritarian law enforcement entities, hyper-partisan judges, and blatantly biased juries.

Where's the redline here? At what point do we say enough, this far and no further? I'd genuinely like to know.

Posted by: troyriser


Tell us what you would have us do that you haven't already done.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 21, 2024 01:47 PM (CsUN+)

95 Any animal that might decide to arbitrarily punch me or kick me in the face should be shot on sight.
Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 01:41 PM

You mean kangaroos, of course. Right?

:deadpan stare:

Right?

Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at May 21, 2024 01:48 PM (iRX3h)

96 Tell us what you would have us do that you haven't already done.

HAVE already done.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 21, 2024 01:48 PM (CsUN+)

97 MAGA War Room @MAGAIncWarRoom 21h
Wolf Blitzer: "Truly amazing stuff that's going on right now--some truly stunning moments...Cohen admitting to stashing tens of thousands of dollars from Trump back in 2016...Todd Blanche asking him directly 'So, you stole from the Trump Organization?' Cohen replying 'Yes sir.'"

Jeff Clark @JeffClarkUS 21h
Again, when you’ve lost Wolf Blitzer, you’re dealing with a true implosion of the prosecutor’s case.

Here’s what should happen now in cascading order:

1) Judge Merchan should order a directed verdict in Trump’s favor.

2) Failing that, the jury should acquit.

3) Failing that, the NY Appellate Division should reverse the conviction.

4) Failing that, the New York Supreme Court should reverse the conviction.

5) Failing that, the US Supreme Court should reverse the New York courts.

No way a possible conviction survives appellate review at this point. All the Dems are playing for is having roughed up Trump enough with female swing voters to keep Biden in the White House.

That’s the whole cynical game. Americans should be appalled.

Posted by: andycanuck (ZdexC) at May 21, 2024 01:48 PM (ZdexC)

98 My words stand. I play knockout game for keeps.

Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 01:49 PM (Ectld)

99 When will the defense team be arrested?

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at May 21, 2024 01:49 PM (DeJo7)

100 Where's the redline here? At what point do we say enough, this far and no further? I'd genuinely like to know.
Posted by: troyriser at May 21, 2024 01:47 PM (dsdI5)

The red line is a few years after food gets really scarce, and people are hungry *enough* that even naked force quits working.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at May 21, 2024 01:49 PM (EgEy5)

101 Every Democrat in power is out to get Trump no matter how or what it takes.

Julie Kelly
@julie_kelly2

Tons of new unsealed filings on classified docs case--I will try to post as much as I can (there goes the workout) but this is mind-blowing.

FBI authorized the use of deadly force at Mar-a-Lago

Oh my God

Armed FBI agents were preparing to confront Trump and even engage Secret Service if necessary.

They were going to go door to door to terrorize MAL guests and even pick the locks.

Gestapo
Cont-

tinyurl.com/446x35nw

Posted by: redridinghood at May 21, 2024 01:49 PM (NpAcC)

102 And I want you all to keep this in mind:
One of those "man in the street" interviews i saw, a young black man said, "they treating him like a black man."

If you want to know why they're 30% for Trump now.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at May 21, 2024 01:50 PM (g9W3m)

103 Isn't there a higher court that could step in and put an end to this mess?

Posted by: IrishEi at May 21, 2024 01:47 PM (3ImbR)

The state would have to appeal the granting of a mistrial, and assuming they can do that I don't think they would. There's essentially zero chance that an appellate judge would step in and order the trial judge to find a defendant not guilty ahead of a jury verdict, so the best chance for an appellate court to get involved requires a guilty verdict.

Posted by: Octochicken at May 21, 2024 01:50 PM (oCS0o)

104 Posted by: redridinghood at May 21, 2024 01:49 PM (NpAcC)

Yikes

Posted by: It's me donna at May 21, 2024 01:50 PM (Akjoo)

105
Isn't there a higher court that could step in and put an end to this mess?

Posted by: IrishEi at May 21, 2024 01:47 PM (3ImbR)

In NY?

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at May 21, 2024 01:50 PM (DeJo7)

106 Where are these female swinger voters I keep hearing about?

Posted by: wth at May 21, 2024 01:50 PM (v0R5T)

107 "Isn't there a higher court that could step in and put an end to this mess?"

An appeal to heaven.

Posted by: Zek at May 21, 2024 01:51 PM (5FPX4)

108 @amuse @amuse May 20
LAWFARE: Cohen admitted he would negotiate settlements for one amount and report them to the Trump Org at significantly higher amount - he would keep the excess (this is embezzlement/theft).

DA Bragg was aware of his crimes and refuses to prosecute him for them. Instead he's prosecuting Cohen's victim for failing to itemize the payments made to his embezzler.

You can't make this up. The prosecutor wants to jail Trump for over 100 years for failing to properly account for the payments illicitly billed by Cohen.

Biden's number three official in the DOJ negotiated a deal with Michael Cohen to get him to plead guilty to Federal Election Campaign crimes - crimes that, ironically, Cohen did not commit. That DOJ official then left his top DOJ job to join the NYC District Attorney's office to prosecute Trump. He is trying to use Cohen's FEC guilty plea to allow him to prosecute Trump for a business record misdemeanor with an expired statute of limitation as a felony. The fix was in from the start.

Posted by: andycanuck (ZdexC) at May 21, 2024 01:51 PM (ZdexC)

109 Where's the redline here? At what point do we say enough, this far and no further? I'd genuinely like to know.
Posted by: troyriser


When people realize that something is being loaded on the cattle cars and they ain't cows?

When long six foot wide trenches are being dug right along Main St USA?

Posted by: Maj. Healey at May 21, 2024 01:51 PM (aFNOf)

110 >>>This is a quote from Merchan, right? Sure sounds like it.
Posted by: Martini Farmer


Probably a good idea for Trump to never go back to NY. Ever.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at May 21, 2024 01:52 PM (d2bW3)

111 @108 andycanuck

Well, gosh. It all sounds corrupt when you say it like that. Why are you trying to undermine Our Democracy(TM)?!?

Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 01:52 PM (Ectld)

112 Atually it's a good idea for anyone to steer clear of NY.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at May 21, 2024 01:52 PM (d2bW3)

113 >>>Michael Cohen to be indicted for admitted Grand Larceny and Perjury in 3 .. 4 .. 5
~~~~~

Sadly, the statute of limitations has run on the larceny.

Posted by: IrishEi at May 21, 2024 01:53 PM (3ImbR)

114 "Where's the redline here?"

I dunno, but it will probably involve Taylor Swift somehow.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at May 21, 2024 01:53 PM (MvF+J)

115 I think Merchan's a hero to the left right now. There's been a spate of judges, DA's and prosecutors that have really gone off the deep end in an effort "to get Trump."

I don't think there's any going back now. This is how justice is going to be meted out to anyone not aligned with the left.

That includes most everyone here.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at May 21, 2024 01:42 PM (Q4IgG)

I would love to be able to ask a Trump-hater: Okay, everything's been wrecked to go after Trump (they'd probably argue that's Trump's fault too). So, say you get what you want and Trump is thrown in prison, loses the election, gets exiled to St. Elba, whatever. THEN WHAT? What is the plan after you flamethrow the house to get the spider?

(Yes, I know they're just operating off of the ORANGE MAN BAD programming, but I honestly want to hear what they think is going to happen once their goal is reached, if they've ever thought about it at all.)

Posted by: pookysgirl, getting all philosophical at May 21, 2024 01:53 PM (dtlDP)

116 if i were on trial and could prove beyond any possible doubt that i was innocent, i still wouldn't testify on my own behalf in a court with people like bragg and marchan

Posted by: gnats local 678 at May 21, 2024 01:54 PM (B1FKF)

117 75 If Trump gets off, Merchan's not going to be around much longer, I bet. Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024

I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition, but the guy gave an impressive audition, so we'll get started with the script.

Posted by: Auspex at May 21, 2024 01:54 PM (j4U/Z)

118 "I honestly want to hear what they think is going to happen once their goal is reached,"

Phase one complete. Proceed with phase two.

Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 01:54 PM (Ectld)

119 And I want you all to keep this in mind:
One of those "man in the street" interviews i saw, a young black man said, "they treating him like a black man."

If you want to know why they're 30% for Trump now.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice

I was just going to say, this may play well with the cat food crowd, but you run the risk of making him more appealing to your "persecuted" dem voters.

Posted by: Jusge at May 21, 2024 01:55 PM (hCzfy)

120 Isn't there a higher court that could step in and put an end to this mess?

Posted by: IrishEi at May 21, 2024 01:47 PM (3ImbR)
-

A well regulated militia.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at May 21, 2024 01:55 PM (aJWJO)

121 (Yes, I know they're just operating off of the ORANGE MAN BAD programming, but I honestly want to hear what they think is going to happen once their goal is reached, if they've ever thought about it at all.)
Posted by: pookysgirl, getting all philosophical at May 21, 2024 01:53 PM (dtlDP)
---
Consequences happen to other people.

Yes, they do play the long game to achieve their goals, but they are so short-sighted that they cannot see PAST their goals.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 21, 2024 01:55 PM (7fElN)

122 Sadly, the statute of limitations has run on the larceny.
Posted by: IrishEi

I thought it was a statue ?

Posted by: JT at May 21, 2024 01:55 PM (T4tVD)

123 Where's the redline here? At what point do we say enough, this far and no further? I'd genuinely like to know.
Posted by: troyriser at May 21, 2024 01:47 PM (dsdI5)

That's my question.

This isn't a nation. Whatever it's called, it's not a nation. You can't have this level of active hate being given this much room to ooze itself out all over everything, it's going to break.

And what comes next will NOT be about "liberals" and teevee personalities. It'll be concentration camps and mass killings.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 21, 2024 01:56 PM (dGCAG)

124 Kangaroos are called Joey's in Australia. . . .
Posted by: Maj. Healey at May 21, 2024


***
I thought "joey" was the name for a baby kangaroo.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 21, 2024 01:56 PM (J2vNu)

125 Update: Unbelievable. The crooked judge gave the jurors a week off, then they'll reconvene to hear opening arguments.

They're starting the trial over? Okay.....

Posted by: mindful webworker - nitpikishly at May 21, 2024 01:57 PM (/uvq0)

126 61 the only logical conclusion is that LOSER45 IS A COWARD OR is afraid of perjuring himself. COWARD, LOSER, RAPIST, TRAITOR, INSURRECTIONIST FRAUD. LOL. All my terms are legally true.

Everyone knows he's guilty. Lock him up.

Insane
Posted by: It's me donna
========
One of Stan's tricks--not insanity. Basically, if you sin, then a lot of people keeping digging that hole deeper by sinning more.

DU types are older Dem party functionaries, govt employees, etc. and have been grinding the faces of their enemies du jour for years now. They justify such actions themselves and pardon crimes of their champions by telling themselves that the other side are monsters and have to be defeated by any means possible. Which means sinning wholesale--envy, murder, slander, libel, corruption, are all justified in their cause. Stan just loves this kind of thinking--injustice becomes flipped to become justice.

Posted by: whig at May 21, 2024 01:57 PM (PkS4e)

127 "once their goal is reached"

There is no "goal" or endpoint for the left. Progressivism by definition is eternal change for change's sake.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at May 21, 2024 01:57 PM (MvF+J)

128 Unbelievable. The crooked judge gave the jurors a week off, then they'll reconvene to hear opening arguments.

It does make for a better movie, though.

Posted by: t-bird at May 21, 2024 01:57 PM (JMsLj)

129 What the...

Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at May 21, 2024 01:57 PM (iRX3h)

130 128 Unbelievable. The crooked judge gave the jurors a week off, then they'll reconvene to hear opening arguments.

It does make for a better movie, though.
Posted by: t-bird at May 21, 2024 01:57 PM (JMsLj)

========

Sorcerer > this mess.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at May 21, 2024 01:58 PM (cD1dp)

131
Merchan's instruction to the jury

"Let's put an end once and for all to this miserable hybrid of foxes and pigs, this stinking corpse! Let's exterminate the mad dog of fascism, who want to tear to pieces the flower of Our Democracy! Let's push the bestial hatred he bears our leaders back down his own throat!"

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 21, 2024 01:58 PM (MoZTd)

132 Merchan would have been a great party apparatchik under Stalin. Evil fuck.

Posted by: Minnfidel at May 21, 2024 01:58 PM (HqA+5)

133 124 Kangaroos are called Joey's in Australia. . . .
Posted by: Maj. Healey at May 21, 2024

***
I thought "joey" was the name for a baby kangaroo.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 21, 2024 01:56 PM (J2vNu)

C'mon! I'm standing right here! How you doin'?

Posted by: Joey Tribbiani at May 21, 2024 01:58 PM (T+Iwg)

134 "I honestly want to hear what they think is going to happen once their goal is reached,"

Phase one complete. Proceed with phase two.
Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 01:54 PM (Ectld)


https://youtu.be/wTP_SdjD5ms&t=112

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at May 21, 2024 01:58 PM (U7wke)

135 He is trying to use Cohen's FEC guilty plea to allow him to prosecute Trump for a business record misdemeanor with an expired statute of limitation as a felony. The fix was in from the start.
---
This is also the same play in GA and FL--overcharge the lower level guys, get them to plea, including the requirements that they admit the crimes and agree to testify later.
They got the full scheme to work in NY.
It was working in GA, as they got the blonde and the other lawyer to plea out. Then pussy play blew that up.
It almost worked in FL. But the valet held and refused to flip.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at May 21, 2024 01:59 PM (g9W3m)

136 Bill Maher thinks we can all still be friends. I mean, sure, they want to corrupt all of our institutions so that we become second class citizens and go to jail if we don't toe the Marxist line, but we can still break bread together and talk about sportsball and the grandkids.

Posted by: Anti-Faucist at May 21, 2024 01:59 PM (qUkBO)

137 I thought it was a statue ?
Posted by: JT at May 21, 2024 01:55 PM (T4tVD)
~~~~~

May as well be the way they move it around when it comes to Trump.

Posted by: IrishEi at May 21, 2024 01:59 PM (3ImbR)

138 @88

>>Where's the redline here? At what point do we say enough, this far and no further? I'd genuinely like to know.

Well, since we don't have a legitimate oppositional political party no control of any of the apparatuses of power, no regular Joe or Jane or a collection of Joes or James are going to stick their neck out, lest it be chopped, see the people still rotting away in The Black Hole of DC as an example.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at May 21, 2024 02:00 PM (PRNKf)

139 BTW, David French is appalled too.

LOL. Even that guy is finally realizing its bad.

He won't understand is part in creating this environment of course.

Posted by: Harun at May 21, 2024 02:00 PM (IuIym)

140 I thought "joey" was the name for a baby kangaroo.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 21, 2024
*
C'mon! I'm standing right here! How you doin'?
Posted by: Joey Tribbiani at May 21, 2024


***
Never mind, Joey. It's a moo point.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 21, 2024 02:00 PM (J2vNu)

141 135 This is also the same play in GA and FL--overcharge the lower level guys, get them to plea, including the requirements that they admit the crimes and agree to testify later.
They got the full scheme to work in NY.
It was working in GA, as they got the blonde and the other lawyer to plea out. Then pussy play blew that up.
It almost worked in FL. But the valet held and refused to flip.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at May 21, 2024 01:59 PM (g9W3m)

========

Patterico probably thinks this is just the work of patriotic government employees doing God's work.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at May 21, 2024 02:00 PM (cD1dp)

142 Tell us what you would have us do that you haven't already done.
Posted by: Archimedes at May 21, 2024 01:47 PM (CsUN+)

That's just it. I don't know what to do. I suppose if Biden come up with millions of heretofore secret admirers in November, people will be motivated enough to become more engaged. The problem right now is this shit happening to Trump and so many others is talked about as if it's normal, the way of things. Truth is it isn't normal. It isn't the way things are supposed to be.

Posted by: troyriser at May 21, 2024 02:00 PM (dsdI5)

143 I would love to be able to ask a Trump-hater: Okay, everything's been wrecked to go after Trump (they'd probably argue that's Trump's fault too). So, say you get what you want and Trump is thrown in prison, loses the election, gets exiled to St. Elba, whatever. THEN WHAT? What is the plan after you flamethrow the house to get the spider?

(Yes, I know they're just operating off of the ORANGE MAN BAD programming, but I honestly want to hear what they think is going to happen once their goal is reached, if they've ever thought about it at all.)
Posted by: pookysgirl, getting all philosophical at May 21, 2024 01:53 PM (dtlDP)

Then they use the same template to go after others.

Trump is unprecedented only in degree.

The left has been using this kind of lawfare my entire adult life: Kay Bailey Hutchison, Tom Delay, Rick Perry. And that's in Texas.

Collectively, the right has shown very little interest in stopping this kind of thing.

Posted by: Same As It Ever Was at May 21, 2024 02:00 PM (3as5t)

144 139 BTW, David French is appalled too.

LOL. Even that guy is finally realizing its bad.

He won't understand is part in creating this environment of course.
Posted by: Harun at May 21, 2024 02:00 PM (IuIym)

=========

"I wouldn't have fallen into this mess if you stupid Evangelicals weren't so disgusting."
-In all fairness

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at May 21, 2024 02:01 PM (cD1dp)

145 I preferred the Mrrshan when they were the not!kzinti in Master of Orion.

Posted by: some furry at May 21, 2024 02:01 PM (gKWVE)

146
He won't understand is part in creating this environment of course.
Posted by: Harun

__________

Neither did Franz von Papen

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 21, 2024 02:01 PM (MoZTd)

147 Come on, Horde! It's not like we live in a banana republic. It's more of a banana democracy!

Posted by: callsign claymore at May 21, 2024 02:01 PM (TQYo8)

148 How far would they go to "Get Trump"?

How far did they go to make "Covid" the worst-possible-national-emergency ever to make sure it could be blamed on Trump's somehow failing to "do enough" (and in the process causing thousands of unnecessary deaths by mistreatment, withholding safe/effective treatments, not to mention putting the country under house arrest, squelching religious worship and free speech, stunting a generation of kids, etc etc) ?

Posted by: Zek at May 21, 2024 02:01 PM (5FPX4)

149 ***
Never mind, Joey. It's a moo point.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 21, 2024 02:00 PM (J2vNu)

*nods sagely*

Posted by: Joey Tribbiani at May 21, 2024 02:01 PM (T+Iwg)

150 I don't think French is appalled. I think he realized the gig is up and he's about to switch sides and start championing conservatism again.

Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 02:02 PM (Ectld)

151 Durian republic.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at May 21, 2024 02:02 PM (MvF+J)

152 123 Where's the redline here? At what point do we say enough, this far and no further? I'd genuinely like to know.
Posted by: troyriser at May 21, 2024 01:47 PM (dsdI5)

That's my question.

This isn't a nation. Whatever it's called, it's not a nation. You can't have this level of active hate being given this much room to ooze itself out all over everything, it's going to break.

And what comes next will NOT be about "liberals" and teevee personalities. It'll be concentration camps and mass killings.
Posted by: BurtTC
=======
We have been an empire technically since at least the Spanish American war and arguably after the American Civil War. Once you have to weld a country together by coercion, violence, and trampling on individual rights, then the faraway
regions will exert centripedal force away from the governing center. Simply put, no one is similarly situated anymore which prevents justice and that makes 'citizenship' a literal joke of a term.

Concentration camps and other such activities though are not sustainable when a country is roughly fifty-fifty. More likely to disintegrate as the elites driving this behavior are only about 20 percent or less of the population.

Posted by: whig at May 21, 2024 02:02 PM (PkS4e)

153 There is no "goal" or endpoint for the left. Progressivism by definition is eternal change for change's sake.
Posted by: gp

Yep. "Never stop fighting" is their motto. Endless war.

If they killed everyone too impure until there were only two of them remaining, those two would be trying to kill each other (and take their stuff) for being too impure.

Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at May 21, 2024 02:02 PM (iRX3h)

154 Getting a conviction against Trump is what the left thinks is a really cool boss move. They believe (perhaps correctly) it will demoralize their enemy and allow them to carry on with whatever plans they have tee'd up.

There's the climate agenda and all that's tied to it. Altering the demographic make up of what was the US. Cementing one party rule.

There's a lot still on the Democrat's plate.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at May 21, 2024 02:02 PM (Q4IgG)

155 133 124 Kangaroos are called Joey's in Australia. . . .
Posted by: Maj. Healey at May 21, 2024

***
I thought "joey" was the name for a baby kangaroo.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 21, 2024 01:56 PM (J2vNu)

C'mon! I'm standing right here! How you doin'?
Posted by: Joey Tribbiani at May 21, 2024 01:58 PM (T+Iwg)

Over the redline? You’re so far past the redline that you can’t even see the redline! The redline is a dot to you!

Posted by: Joey Tribbian at May 21, 2024 02:03 PM (VGRuw)

156 Remember when Democrats with a straight face back in 2004 and 2008 criticized "negative campaigning"?

(yes it was in support of Obama who had of course unsealed his opponents divorce records among all kinds of other shady shit, but that's not important right now, but he was running on "hope")

So what is calling your opponent Satan, hoping he dies, and trying to put him in prison for life?

Would that be considered a "negative campaign"? Maybe a little?

Posted by: ... at May 21, 2024 02:03 PM (aYXz1)

157 Where's the redline here?
===
This is America's cultural revolution. In China, they literally barbecued and ate people who where seen as wreckers, or the Olds. Not because they were starving either. Calvinball doesn't begin to describe what happens when society throws out the rule of law and morality, and the only value is obedience to the state.

Posted by: Lord of the flies is who... at May 21, 2024 02:04 PM (12V0a)

158 156 Remember when Democrats with a straight face back in 2004 and 2008 criticized "negative campaigning"?

(yes it was in support of Obama who had of course unsealed his opponents divorce records among all kinds of other shady shit, but that's not important right now, but he was running on "hope")

So what is calling your opponent Satan, hoping he dies, and trying to put him in prison for life?

Would that be considered a "negative campaign"? Maybe a little?
Posted by: ... at May 21, 2024 02:03 PM (aYXz1)

========

Mitt Romney gave a woman cancer, abused his dog, and wants to put women in binders.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at May 21, 2024 02:04 PM (cD1dp)

159 I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition, but the guy gave an impressive audition, so we'll get started with the script.
Posted by: Auspex


The Inquisition was your advocate if some Spaniard accused you of heresy (and you weren't a heretic).

Posted by: the moron catholic contingent at May 21, 2024 02:05 PM (gKWVE)

160 Who is to say disintegration isn't the end game? Who wouldn't want the U.S. to disintegrate?

Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 02:05 PM (Ectld)

161 Merchan(t) is the Ron Jeremy of Judge Roy Beans

Posted by: Ben Dover, JD, LLM at May 21, 2024 02:05 PM (FxINA)

162 Gestapo
Cont-
tinyurl.com/446x35nw
Posted by: redridinghood at May 21, 2024 01:49 PM (NpAcC)
~~~~~

Good Lord, this is terrifying.

Posted by: IrishEi at May 21, 2024 02:05 PM (3ImbR)

163 I disagree with what you say, but I would fight to the death for the ability to prevent you from saying it.

Posted by: Modern Liberal at May 21, 2024 02:05 PM (5FPX4)

164 Nice to see Lt. Governor Dan Patrick was there at the courthouse as well as Pam Bondi.

Trump War Room
@TrumpWarRoom

@PamBondi
: Prior to being Attorney General of Florida, I was a career prosecutor for 18 years. I’ve prosecuted hundreds of jury trials in a courtroom very similar to the one today—yet, I’ve never seen anything like this.

tinyurl.com/wyvvpx7a

Posted by: redridinghood at May 21, 2024 02:06 PM (NpAcC)

165 Patterico probably thinks this is just the work of patriotic government employees doing God's work.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison
=======
He won't have a job if he doesn't. And probably made himself semi toxic to all sides if he quits the Asst DA job.

As above, sort of like French. There really is no career path for that sort of critter going forward. When you sequentially shit on everyone that supported you at one time, then you run outta rubes pretty quickly because the Internet is forever.

Posted by: whig at May 21, 2024 02:06 PM (PkS4e)

166 Generally, my understanding is, courts used to be very, very hesitant to allow the guilty pleas of a co-defendant into the trial as it works so extreme a prejudice.

You just can't let a jury think, "well, that guy would not have opted to plea guilty unless they all did the crime."
You just can't let it in because there's no way to prevent them from ignoring the presumption of innocence if you do.

And this judge just blew that up all to get Trump.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at May 21, 2024 02:06 PM (g9W3m)

167 It's a bad development for the defense that the court sent the jury home for 8 days, including a holiday weekend.

That gives the jury time to listen to the observations of their friends, & perhaps to do their own internet research. They're instructed not to do these things. However, during an 8-day break, I'm sure some of them will.

I thought Costello's testimony was a marginal net negative for the defense, & a poor last impression to leave with the jury.

Posted by: mnw at May 21, 2024 02:06 PM (NLIak)

168 Off, "Friends" sock.

Posted by: Zombie Robbo the Llama Butcher at May 21, 2024 02:07 PM (T+Iwg)

169 Judge Merchan smells of patchoulie and ass.
But mostly ass.

Posted by: Zek at May 21, 2024 02:07 PM (5FPX4)

170 It's a bad development for the defense that the court sent the jury home for 8 days, including a holiday weekend.

That gives the jury time to listen to the observations of their friends, & perhaps to do their own internet research. They're instructed not to do these things. However, during an 8-day break, I'm sure some of them will.

I thought Costello's testimony was a marginal net negative for the defense, & a poor last impression to leave with the jury.
Posted by: mnw at May 21, 2024 02:06 PM (NLIak)
++++
The judge has pulled out all the stops.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 02:07 PM (d04cU)

171 The crooked judge gave the jurors a week off, then they'll reconvene to hear opening arguments.

The week off is so agents of the Deep State can visit the jurors, and explain to them what happens to them if they vote to acquit.

I wish I was joking.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at May 21, 2024 02:08 PM (uxCna)

172 160 Who is to say disintegration isn't the end game? Who wouldn't want the U.S. to disintegrate?
Posted by: Ribbed
=======
Disintegration in a country with a large number of nukes is always a tricky thing.

Both China and Russia themselves have pretty large groups of peoples within their border that are not so happy about the dominant ethnic groups in control as well. Not reported that well because it requires going out of the comfortable regions to their version of overfly country.

Posted by: whig at May 21, 2024 02:08 PM (PkS4e)

173 How far did they go to make "Covid" the worst-possible-national-emergency ever to make sure it could be blamed on Trump's somehow failing to "do enough" (and in the process causing thousands of unnecessary deaths by mistreatment, withholding safe/effective treatments, not to mention putting the country under house arrest, squelching religious worship and free speech, stunting a generation of kids, etc etc) ?
Posted by: Zek at May 21, 2024 02:01 PM (5FPX4)

Some say Trump isn't the problem, he's a symptom. The problem is YOU. The problem is ME, the problem is anyone who poses a threat to the autocratic rule that's been incrementally imposed on the American people.

Getting Trump is a means to an end, it's not the end itself. The end comes when there are no more than pockets of resistance left in a former free "nation."

Posted by: BurtTC at May 21, 2024 02:08 PM (dGCAG)

174 "I honestly want to hear what they think is going to happen once their goal is reached"

Complete destruction of the Western world. It's not just Trump, it's not just here.

Posted by: DaisyB at May 21, 2024 02:09 PM (AbL8c)

175 A week off allows the jurors to be beaten, badgered and bullied by their friends and families. A visit from Antifa and the FBI can happen if necessary.

Are we still pretending the legal system is less trashy and discredited than the military and the administrative state? The rot is complete.

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at May 21, 2024 02:09 PM (KSNKu)

176 "The week off is so agents of the Deep State can visit the jurors, and explain to them what happens to them if they vote to acquit."

Actually its so they can forget the damaging testimony at the end of the case and return to their core "beliefs" of Getting Trump. Oldest trick in the book of Trial Lawyering (the long break to smooth over damaging testimony)

Posted by: Zek at May 21, 2024 02:09 PM (5FPX4)

177 I wonder if any of the jury members will turn on their TV with 8 days to sit around and end up being exposed to what some leftard thinks about Trump. Eh, probably not.

I mean what are the chances?!!?

Posted by: ... at May 21, 2024 02:09 PM (aYXz1)

178 175 A week off allows the jurors to be beaten, badgered and bullied by their friends and families. A visit from Antifa and the FBI can happen if necessary.

Are we still pretending the legal system is less trashy and discredited than the military and the administrative state? The rot is complete.
Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at May 21, 2024 02:09 PM (KSNKu)

========

The NY system is probably further along than many others.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at May 21, 2024 02:09 PM (cD1dp)

179 They're instructed not to do these things. However, during an 8-day break, I'm sure some of them will.

Posted by: mnw at May 21, 2024 02:06 PM (NLIak)

They're not being sequestered? DU comments will be *lit*.

Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at May 21, 2024 02:09 PM (iRX3h)

180 The end game is Cambodia.

Posted by: ... at May 21, 2024 02:10 PM (aYXz1)

181 I thought Costello's testimony was a marginal net negative for the defense, & a poor last impression to leave with the jury.
Posted by: mnw
======
Merchan overplayed himself dealing with Costello and often the jury does not like a judge inserting themselves into a case like that. Makes the judge the issue rather than the witness.

I think Merchan himself is hurting what is left of the prosecution case because no one likes a bully including many juries.

Posted by: whig at May 21, 2024 02:10 PM (PkS4e)

182 Don't begin to understand the week off thing. I have to assume it's to allow the 'jury' to forget their lying ears and remember OrangManBad.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 21, 2024 02:11 PM (IG4Id)

183 I think Merchan himself is hurting what is left of the prosecution case because no one likes a bully including many juries.
Posted by: whig at May 21, 2024 02:10 PM (PkS4e)

Do you think they like their families?

Posted by: ... at May 21, 2024 02:11 PM (aYXz1)

184 Anyone have a Magic 8 Ball?

Posted by: Skip at May 21, 2024 02:11 PM (EkPON)

185 Both China and Russia themselves have pretty large groups of peoples within their border that are not so happy about the dominant ethnic groups in control as well. Not reported that well because it requires going out of the comfortable regions to their version of overfly country.

The Russian Federation is 80% Russian, and China is over 90% Han Chinese.

We're a lot more diverse than they are.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at May 21, 2024 02:11 PM (uxCna)

186 Actually its so they can forget the damaging testimony at the end of the case and return to their core "beliefs" of Getting Trump. Oldest trick in the book of Trial Lawyering (the long break to smooth over damaging testimony)
Posted by: Zek at May 21, 2024 02:09 PM (5FPX4)
---
There's a lot of truth to this. Their friends, relatives, and the MSM will then make sure to reinforce their original belief system.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 21, 2024 02:11 PM (7fElN)

187 This thing was decided as soon as the jurors were.

Even people sympathetic to Trump are too cowardly to buck the system.

At least when it comes to convictions, the Dems are batting a thousand.

Posted by: Blago at May 21, 2024 02:12 PM (wMRY8)

188 Merchan overplayed himself dealing with Costello and often the jury does not like a judge inserting themselves into a case like that. Makes the judge the issue rather than the witness.

I think Merchan himself is hurting what is left of the prosecution case because no one likes a bully including many juries.
Posted by: whig at May 21, 2024 02:10 PM (PkS4e)


The New York jurors in their inner monologues were cheering for the judge. Even if they acquitted or hung, which is doubtful, but still--the fact this case was brought shows the legal system is as irreparably broken as everything else.

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at May 21, 2024 02:13 PM (KSNKu)

189 If Patterico gets cancer, I'm rooting for cancer.

Posted by: He's Slime at May 21, 2024 02:13 PM (3as5t)

190 Actually its so they can forget the damaging testimony at the end of the case and return to their core "beliefs" of Getting Trump. Oldest trick in the book of Trial Lawyering (the long break to smooth over damaging testimony)
Posted by: Zek at May 21, 2024 02:09 PM (5FPX4)
++++
And listen to the whispers. They'll have a week back home, listening to subtle or overt pressure from their friends, acquaintances, news personalities, etc. to ensure that the come back with the "correct" verdict. I doubt state agents are going to show up and intimidate them - not because they wouldn't, but because it's likely unnecessary.

There will be time and distance between them and Costello and them and Merchan and them and Cohen, and plenty of time and closeness with those in their milieu who will certainly hint or even say outright that they just *know* that Trump ought to go down.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 02:13 PM (d04cU)

191 Anyone have a Magic 8 Ball?
Posted by: Skip at May 21, 2024 02:11 PM (EkPON)
****
🎱

Posted by: redridinghood at May 21, 2024 02:13 PM (NpAcC)

192 @180 yup, year zero wipes away all

Posted by: Smell the Glove at May 21, 2024 02:14 PM (enVpg)

193 I'm sure most jurors are just annoyed they weren't able to get to the "guilty" part quicker.

Posted by: Blago at May 21, 2024 02:14 PM (wMRY8)

194 BTW, David French is appalled too.

It's outrageous! Trump gets ALL the luck. I've watched hundreds of men fuck my wife, but she's NEVER been fucked like Trump has!

Posted by: David French at May 21, 2024 02:14 PM (krQnF)

195 This scantily-clad brunette looks forward to the end of the farce:
http://tiny.cc/ntn6yz

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 02:14 PM (d04cU)

196 That gives the jury time to listen to the observations of their friends, & perhaps to do their own internet research. They're instructed not to do these things. However, during an 8-day break, I'm sure some of them will.

I don't see it that way. I think they're in as hermetically sealed an environment during the trial as it's possible to get. Once they are out and looking online, I think they'll get a taste of what the rest of the country thinks of this disgrace.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 21, 2024 02:14 PM (CsUN+)

197 The week off is so agents of the Deep State can visit the jurors, and explain to them what happens to them if they vote to acquit.

I wish I was joking.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at May 21, 2024 02:08 PM (uxCna)


Unless they're being told to speak to no one and consume no media, a deep state visit is unnecessary. This just provides an extended period for media bias to be further embedded.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at May 21, 2024 02:14 PM (U7wke)

198 >>At least when it comes to convictions, the Dems are batting a thousand.


Which Convictions would those be? Be precise.

Posted by: garrett at May 21, 2024 02:15 PM (gmlRP)

199 So... what happens if/when on of the jurists is caught on social media saying something that under normal circumstances would lead to a mistrial?

My guess... nothing.

Same for the state going to each jurist's home with "instructions" on how to proceed when they return to the courthouse.

Man, we sure do know how to take 3rd world banana republic, shit hole justice and ratchet it up to 11.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at May 21, 2024 02:15 PM (Q4IgG)

200 Five quatloos says the Fake Judge is already writing his book.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at May 21, 2024 02:15 PM (8LPpl)

201 Tangent:

I had my tarot read last night.

I'm at my work's headquarters for the week, and I had dinner with a friend who revealed that he does tarot for fun.

Generic to the point where you could read anything into the reading, plus he knows me a decent bit and could impose that knowledge onto it.

Still, it was amusing.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at May 21, 2024 02:15 PM (cD1dp)

202 Collectively, the right has shown very little interest in stopping this kind of thing.
--
The only way to stop it is to do it to them.
And that will never happen until a big chunk of the party is dead and/or gone.
Because those who control the right refuses to protect our own.
How many thousands of NeverTrump are there because Trump said pussy?
Remember how they preened about withdrawing their endorsement?
How--after the last 4 awful years--they STILL won't endorse Trump?

Trump is purging them, but slowly as they are holding with a death grip on the party.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at May 21, 2024 02:15 PM (g9W3m)

203 They're not being sequestered? DU comments will be *lit*.
Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at May 21, 2024 02:09 PM (iRX3h)


If they were sequestered they might miss the threats directed their way if they don't reach the proper conclusion.

Posted by: Emmie at May 21, 2024 02:15 PM (Sf2cq)

204 At least when it comes to convictions, the Dems are batting a thousand.

Posted by: Blago

Notwithstanding George Zimmerman and Kyle Rittenhouse.

Nobody has a Magic 8 Ball. Miracles happen sometimes.

Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at May 21, 2024 02:15 PM (iRX3h)

205 This scantily-clad brunette looks forward to the end of the farce:
http://tiny.cc/ntn6yz
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)


Stupid nail-polish color, but otherwise very nice.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 21, 2024 02:15 PM (v6JzV)

206 This scantily-clad brunette looks forward to the end of the farce:

Things are looking up.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 21, 2024 02:16 PM (CsUN+)

207 I've seen murder trials where they can't produce a body but never a criminal trial where they can't produce a crime.

Posted by: Matlock Reruns at May 21, 2024 02:16 PM (z5JUV)

208 The judge will give the jury the strictest of orders. They convict. And if they don’t, any dissenting juror will be arrested.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at May 21, 2024 02:16 PM (DeJo7)

209 >>Anyone have a Magic 8 Ball?


Really. Any 8-Ball would do...

even just a little Parm to get me over.

Posted by: Hunter Biden at May 21, 2024 02:16 PM (gmlRP)

210 207 I've seen murder trials where they can't produce a body but never a criminal trial where they can't produce a crime.
Posted by: Matlock Reruns at May 21, 2024 02:16 PM (z5JUV)

Have we met?

Posted by: Lavrentia Beria at May 21, 2024 02:17 PM (DeJo7)

211 The judge will give the jury the strictest of orders. They convict. And if they don’t, any dissenting juror will be arrested.
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at May 21, 2024 02:16 PM (DeJo7)

And your family maybe getting certain visits.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at May 21, 2024 02:17 PM (2QA3G)

212 whig

"often the jury does not like a judge..."

I agree. But the jury didn't HEAR the worst part of what Merchan said. I'm sure they picked up on the vibes, though.

Some of what Costello testified to on cross-x made me uneasy, based only on what I've read about it. It was certainly NOT a strong finish for the defense, imo.

Posted by: mnw at May 21, 2024 02:17 PM (NLIak)

213 Let me get this straight: the jury will be deciding the fate of Trump’s presidency ( because you know Dems will use a conviction to try to purge him from ballots) and instead of sequestering them, the judge gives them a week off to take bids and/or be threatened to vote to convict???

This is banana republic clown world!!

Posted by: Lizzy at May 21, 2024 02:18 PM (Hkcdp)

214 FBI had authorization for lethal force during the MAL raid: https://x.com/julie_kelly2/status/1792972717781586109

We're not voting our way out of this folks and Donald Trump will never, ever be allowed anywhere near the White House again.

Posted by: Blast Hardcheese at May 21, 2024 02:18 PM (PWI4f)

215 I read Macaulay's History Of England. Judge Leonard Jefferies and his Bloody Assizes keeps coming to mind.

A cardinal and river fog
Sunny day and
Poison ivy shoots

Posted by: Jamaica at May 21, 2024 02:19 PM (tez/p)

216 Do you think they like their families?
Posted by: ...
======
Juries are hard to predict and even back in the days sometimes came up with the right verdict despite the state and society piling on demanding a conviction.

Some might also fear that a wrong decision here will ignite the country leading to bad things for their family regardless.

It is simply something we do not know yet and the last ten years of so, I have gotten out of the habit of predictions on immediate events. I think the underwriters for insurance are having the same problem and that is one of the reasons insurance is spiking. Uncertainty is a difficult condition to make plans or predictions about.

Posted by: whig at May 21, 2024 02:19 PM (PkS4e)

217 The only way to stop it is to do it to them.
And that will never happen until a big chunk of the party is dead and/or gone.
Because those who control the right refuses to protect our own.
How many thousands of NeverTrump are there because Trump said pussy?
Remember how they preened about withdrawing their endorsement?
How--after the last 4 awful years--they STILL won't endorse Trump?

Trump is purging them, but slowly as they are holding with a death grip on the party.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at May 21, 2024 02:15 PM (g9W3m)

If Trump somehow got elected and did nothing severely retaliatory--which I agree is likely--would be worse than him losing. I had the great misfortune to catch Hannity briefly yesterday and he was in full "that's now who we are" mode. If Trump wins and this goes unpunished in the most severe way possible, it will become norm until the system implodes in the near future. Hell, it is the norm now.

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at May 21, 2024 02:19 PM (KSNKu)

218 This is banana republic clown world!!
Posted by: Lizzy at May 21, 2024 02:18 PM (Hkcdp)

Should we expect better at this point? The entire thing couldn't be any more of a sham to begin with.

Posted by: ... at May 21, 2024 02:19 PM (aYXz1)

219 But where are the Itos?
Quick, send in the Itos
Don't bother they're here

Posted by: andycanuck (ZdexC) at May 21, 2024 02:19 PM (ZdexC)

220 Biden is releasing more oil. To combat inflation. Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?

Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 02:19 PM (Ectld)

221 ... Generic to the point where you could read anything into the reading, plus he knows me a decent bit and could impose that knowledge onto it.

Still, it was amusing.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at May 21, 2024 02:15 PM (cD1dp)
++++
I think "laughable" is a bit more precise.

Laughable, anyway, unless you're one of the people who believe in the con and operate your life around what the palmist or fortune-teller tells you to do as he or she relieves you of your money and externalizes all problems.

Con men, man. I freaking hate con men.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 02:19 PM (d04cU)

222 Each juror is going to arrive home to a handwritten note with merely the following on it:

(wX5h4)

Posted by: ... at May 21, 2024 02:20 PM (aYXz1)

223 ...because you know Dems will use a conviction to try to purge him from ballots...
Posted by: Lizzy at May 21, 2024 02:18 PM (Hkcdp)


They can try but there is existing SCOTUS precedent that says they cannot.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at May 21, 2024 02:21 PM (U7wke)

224 A Minnesota jury convicted Derek Chauvin of murder even though the medical evidence clearly showed he did not murder George Floyd. Presumably because they did not want their lives destroyed by the BLM/Corrupt Media arsonists. What hope does Trump have?

Posted by: Anti-Faucist at May 21, 2024 02:21 PM (qUkBO)

225 I'm surprised, said no one ever.

Journalists drink too much, are bad at managing emotions, and operate at a lower level than average, according to a new study

https://tinyurl.com/smyea73b

Posted by: Archimedes at May 21, 2024 02:21 PM (CsUN+)

226 221 I think "laughable" is a bit more precise.

Laughable, anyway, unless you're one of the people who believe in the con and operate your life around what the palmist or fortune-teller tells you to do as he or she relieves you of your money and externalizes all problems.

Con men, man. I freaking hate con men.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 02:19 PM (d04cU)

=======

Watching him work through the intended meanings of the cards, their numbers and relations based on where they were placed was interesting.

I mean...I didn't pay him for the reading.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at May 21, 2024 02:21 PM (cD1dp)

227 Generic to the point where you could read anything into the reading, plus he knows me a decent bit and could impose that knowledge onto it.

Still, it was amusing.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

He predicted your love of Prometheus and your adamant refusal to bang Mannix girls?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 21, 2024 02:21 PM (v6JzV)

228 This scantily-clad brunette looks forward to the end of the farce:
http://tiny.cc/ntn6yz
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)
......

Looks like Svetlana Bilyalova

Posted by: wth at May 21, 2024 02:21 PM (v0R5T)

229 Watching him work through the intended meanings of the cards, their numbers and relations based on where they were placed was interesting.

I mean...I didn't pay him for the reading.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at May 21, 2024 02:21 PM (cD1dp)
++++
Yup. I dig it. Free is free and amusement is amusement.

But fortune tellers can blow me.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 02:22 PM (d04cU)

230 What hope does Trump have?
Posted by: Anti-Faucist
What hope did Kyle Rittenhouse have?

Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at May 21, 2024 02:22 PM (iRX3h)

231 227 He predicted your love of Prometheus and your adamant refusal to bang Mannix girls?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 21, 2024 02:21 PM (v6JzV)

=======

Ah, I see you are also well-versed in the ways of the Tarot.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at May 21, 2024 02:22 PM (cD1dp)

232 >> It was certainly NOT a strong finish for the defense, imo.

It wasn't intended to be the finish. The finish was suppopsed to be the FEC lawyer who would explain why what Trump did was not a violation of federal finance campain law. That was the kill shot. So of course Merchan ruled he could not testify.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 21, 2024 02:22 PM (LkLld)

233 Each juror is going to arrive home to a handwritten note with merely the following on it:

(wX5h4)
Posted by: ... at May 21, 2024 02:20 PM (aYXz1)
---
And anyone who shows any reaction other than puzzlement will be hustled off in the middle of the night under cover of darkness to an undisclosed location right next to the J6 prisoners....

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 21, 2024 02:22 PM (7fElN)

234 Anyone up for a new Reign of Terror? A systematic liquidation of our Ruling Class? Cuz this is how you get a Reign of Terror.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at May 21, 2024 02:22 PM (YIxO9)

235 The jury will be deciding the election.

Posted by: redridinghood at May 21, 2024 02:22 PM (NpAcC)

236 180 Hey ... Yes. And throw in a heavy racial component. The leftists here are using the same playbook used before the Rwanda genocide. Just substitute "white" for "Tutsi."

Posted by: callsign claymore at May 21, 2024 02:23 PM (TQYo8)

237 235 The jury will be deciding the election.
Posted by: redridinghood at May 21, 2024 02:22 PM (NpAcC)

Some are saying a guilty verdict will help Trump more....

Posted by: It's me donna at May 21, 2024 02:23 PM (Akjoo)

238 He predicted your love of Prometheus and your adamant refusal to bang Mannix girls?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus

He predicted TJM wouldn't get it.

Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at May 21, 2024 02:23 PM (iRX3h)

239 So the judge is giving these people a week to be coerced, or threatened, by their family and co-workers.

In abby case even slightly as high profile as this, they'd sequester ther jury to keep them from being tampered with, but this asshole wants to just break every judicial norm.

Posted by: Rbastid at May 21, 2024 02:23 PM (v2xp0)

240 When you say "refusal to bang Mannix girls" do you mean he took the position "I could if I want. I just don't want to"?

Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 02:24 PM (B0mGw)

241 Con men, man. I freaking hate con men.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)


Who was that Haitian woman medium who got busted for fraud? The one who used to advertise on TV?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 21, 2024 02:24 PM (v6JzV)

242 If Trump wins and this goes unpunished in the most severe way possible, it will become norm until the system implodes in the near future. Hell, it is the norm now.
Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at May 21, 2024 02:19 PM (KSNKu)


If Trump won and had all the malefactors publicly tortured to death it would likely only delay the implosion for a few years. Way too many people are excited not by the prospect of justice but of seeing someone on the other side punished. Add in the fact that half the populace is of below average intelligence and the average today is borderline retarded and things don't look rosy.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at May 21, 2024 02:24 PM (U7wke)

243 I have a pretty good sense of these things *usually*. Usually I am going on the law, the performance of the defense and prosecution and common sense.

Almost all of that is totally out the window here.

I think they convict.

Posted by: ... at May 21, 2024 02:24 PM (aYXz1)

244 Anyone up for a new Reign of Terror? A systematic liquidation of our Ruling Class? Cuz this is how you get a Reign of Terror.
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie


Can't we just skip to the Corsican Bastard instead?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 21, 2024 02:24 PM (IG4Id)

245 Who was that Haitian woman medium who got busted for fraud? The one who used to advertise on TV?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 21, 2024 02:24 PM (v6JzV)
++++
Miss Cleo.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 02:25 PM (d04cU)

246 I agree. But the jury didn't HEAR the worst part of what Merchan said. I'm sure they picked up on the vibes, though.

Some of what Costello testified to on cross-x made me uneasy, based only on what I've read about it. It was certainly NOT a strong finish for the defense, imo.

Posted by: mnw
--------
A judge sustaining multiple objections almost simultaneous to the prosecution motions generally pisses a jury off because it is denying them facts.

It is possible that the whole jury is ideologues and will convict regardless, it is also possible that despite their professed ideology, they might have some personal sense of justice and rightness of things.

These are often the most difficult jurors to predict in jury selection and often these type are the most stubborn once they have made a decision mentally regardless of what the judge nor the rest of the jury wants to do.

Posted by: whig at May 21, 2024 02:25 PM (PkS4e)

247 224 A Minnesota jury convicted Derek Chauvin of murder even though the medical evidence clearly showed he did not murder George Floyd. Presumably because they did not want their lives destroyed by the BLM/Corrupt Media arsonists. What hope does Trump have?
Posted by: Anti-Faucist at May 21, 2024 02:21 PM (qUkBO)


Yep. Neither case would have been brought if either the jury wasn't already in the bag or could be put in the bag. This country is an evil totalitarian shitshow and just getting worse. It won't go on much longer but massive damage will be done as it winds down.

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at May 21, 2024 02:25 PM (KSNKu)

248 Miss Cleo.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)


That's right. Always found her ads somewhat amusing.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 21, 2024 02:25 PM (v6JzV)

249 Some are saying a guilty verdict will help Trump more....
Posted by: It's me donna at May 21, 2024 02:23 PM (Akjoo)
********
I don't know. There are a lot of people that aren't paying attention and will just hear that Trump is now a convicted felon.

Posted by: redridinghood at May 21, 2024 02:26 PM (NpAcC)

250 "a taste of what the rest of the country thinks of this disgrace"

The jurors are Manhattan liberals, living in the infamous perfumed stockade. Their "rest of the world" may not be the same as AoS posters' "rest of the world."

Remember Pauline Kael? "I don't know how Nixon won. I don't know anyone who voted for him." She lived in Manhattan.

Posted by: mnw at May 21, 2024 02:26 PM (NLIak)

251 Julie Kelly
@julie_kelly2

Tons of new unsealed filings on classified docs case--I will try to post as much as I can (there goes the workout) but this is mind-blowing.

FBI authorized the use of deadly force at Mar-a-Lago




I told you the end game would be a shootout between the DOJ and the secret service detail. They hope to kill Trump in the crossfire.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at May 21, 2024 02:27 PM (lTGtQ)

252 All of Julie Kelly's thread about the Mar-A-Lago Raid kill list as a ThreadReader webpage -- no X account required; includes screencaps etc.

https://tinyurl.com/ywdavywu

Thanks, redridinghood and Blast Hardcheese.

Posted by: andycanuck (ZdexC) at May 21, 2024 02:27 PM (ZdexC)

253 Can't we just skip to the Corsican Bastard instead?
Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 21, 2024 02:24 PM (IG4Id)
++++
No. He requires a vacuum.

Rousseau destroyed the church and Robespierre tried to pick up the pieces by destroying the crown. The long nightmare gave the Corsican the opportunity to re-establish both.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 02:27 PM (d04cU)

254 245 Who was that Haitian woman medium who got busted for fraud? The one who used to advertise on TV?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 21, 2024 02:24 PM (v6JzV)
++++
Miss Cleo.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 02:25 PM (d04cU)

There was a hilarious documentary about her. The first half established that she was a fraudster. Then it's revealed that she was a lesbian, and the second half turns into a hagiography of the fraudster.

Posted by: She's Be A Bad Person If She Eats Pussy! at May 21, 2024 02:27 PM (3as5t)

255 Posted by: callsign claymore at May 21, 2024 02:23 PM (TQYo

That too. Somehow I just "feel" these are the Khmer Rouge simpaticos. There is just something about them.

That feeling has been there since around 2010 and NOTHING since has caused me to reconsider.

Posted by: ... at May 21, 2024 02:27 PM (aYXz1)

256 >>FBI authorized the use of deadly force at Mar-a-Lago


They REALLY wanted Melania's Panties.

Posted by: garrett at May 21, 2024 02:28 PM (gmlRP)

257 Look on the bright side, everybody. Nikki Haley is just waiting to unite us, behind a candidate that wears boots, and isn't afraid to talk tough, and is ready to protect the borders.

Of Ukraine. And Taiwan.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 21, 2024 02:29 PM (dGCAG)

258 There was a hilarious documentary about her. The first half established that she was a fraudster. Then it's revealed that she was a lesbian, and the second half turns into a hagiography of the fraudster.
Posted by: She's Be A Bad Person If She Eats Pussy! at May 21, 2024 02:27 PM (3as5t)
++++
Of course it was fraud. I never understood it. Even if you believe in that hocus-pocus, how could you believe that it would work over the phone or on the internet? How do they read your aura or whatever remotely?

Just like the fortune-teller apps. Modern day, AI-powered Miss Cleos, running the same old con.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 02:29 PM (d04cU)

259 The jurors are Manhattan liberals, living in the infamous perfumed stockade. Their "rest of the world" may not be the same as AoS posters' "rest of the world."

I'm sure that's true, but IIRC, a majority of the country is appalled, presumably including some members of the Manhattanites families.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 21, 2024 02:29 PM (CsUN+)

260 Now is the time for President Trump to have some people he knows contact some people they know who know some people that will take this "judge" for a nice trip to the woods and introduce him to a Louisville slugger, a pair of pliers and a blow torch.

But first he will be stripped naked.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at May 21, 2024 02:29 PM (IebSC)

261 Pauline Kael had a very wry sense of humor.

Posted by: ... at May 21, 2024 02:29 PM (aYXz1)

262 I told you the end game would be a shootout between the DOJ and the secret service detail. They hope to kill Trump in the crossfire.
Posted by: Thomas Paine


He wasn't at Mar. So that doesn't wash.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 21, 2024 02:29 PM (IG4Id)

263 I think the Corsican prince is more or less inevitable now.

I nominate me. I am skilled in the art of war and military tactics.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at May 21, 2024 02:30 PM (YIxO9)

264 I will not sit here idly and let you defame Miss Cleo!

Posted by: garrett at May 21, 2024 02:30 PM (gmlRP)

265 @Hairyback Guy No woodchipper? I heard judges love woodchippers.

Posted by: Ribbed at May 21, 2024 02:30 PM (Ectld)

266 246

I have some hope that at least one of the attys on the jury may just throw up after listening to this farce.

It's the Alice In Wonderland of criminal trials.

Posted by: mnw at May 21, 2024 02:30 PM (NLIak)

267 The Feral NY Justice System.

Posted by: mrp at May 21, 2024 02:30 PM (rj6Yv)

268 Looks like Svetlana Bilyalova

in front of the "Heydar Aliyev Cultural Centre" in Baku.
https://tinyurl.com/2uvrv6rd

An impossibly weird building. We probably paid for it.

Posted by: t-bird at May 21, 2024 02:31 PM (Rd2/L)

269 Yeah they can't let Trump have the Presidency. They want the Supreme Court to wrap up the "fundamental transformation".

Posted by: ... at May 21, 2024 02:31 PM (aYXz1)

270 Who was that Haitian woman medium who got busted for fraud? The one who used to advertise on TV?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 21, 2024 02:24 PM (v6JzV)
++++
Miss Cleo.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 02:25 PM (d04cU)

Remember when we used to say stupidity should be painful?

So what you're saying is, a lady claiming to be psychic. On teevee. Isn't telling the truth?

Should we arrest everyone on teevee who doesn't tell the truth?

Posted by: BurtTC at May 21, 2024 02:31 PM (dGCAG)

271 263 I think the Corsican prince is more or less inevitable now.

I nominate me. I am skilled in the art of war and military tactics.
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at May 21, 2024 02:30 PM (YIxO9)

=========

Cromwell, Napoleon,...nah.

We're going to just get Guy Fawkes, a failed explosion, and more repression.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at May 21, 2024 02:32 PM (cD1dp)

272 Should we arrest everyone on teevee who doesn't tell the truth?
Posted by: BurtTC at May 21, 2024 02:31 PM (dGCAG)

Ummmmmmm...No.

Just shoot them.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at May 21, 2024 02:32 PM (IebSC)

273 264 I will not sit here idly and let you defame Miss Cleo!
====
I knew you were going to say that!

Posted by: zombie Miss Cleo at May 21, 2024 02:32 PM (ZdexC)

274 NOOD border

Posted by: ShainS -- Blood-Bath-and-Beyond angel investor at May 21, 2024 02:33 PM (idbzh)

275 I predict a NOOd!

Posted by: zombie Miss Cleo at May 21, 2024 02:33 PM (ZdexC)

276 in front of the "Heydar Aliyev Cultural Centre" in Baku.
https://tinyurl.com/2uvrv6rd

An impossibly weird building. We probably paid for it.
Posted by: t-bird at May 21, 2024 02:31 PM (Rd2/L)
++++
That is hideous. I will add it to my example list of the hideous post-modern architectural assault on man's environment.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 02:33 PM (d04cU)

277 Just remember not everything on the internet is real, and somethings are crafted to create narratives that aren't either.

And Kelly would be a great target of malicious info if some people wanted more outrage. Caveat emptor.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 21, 2024 02:34 PM (IG4Id)

278 It will be about the Border!

Posted by: zombie Miss Cleo at May 21, 2024 02:34 PM (ZdexC)

279 Of course it was fraud. I never understood it. Even if you believe in that hocus-pocus, how could you believe that it would work over the phone or on the internet? How do they read your aura or whatever remotely?

Just like the fortune-teller apps. Modern day, AI-powered Miss Cleos, running the same old con.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 02:29 PM (d04cU)
---
Wait a minute...

Are you saying that the newspaper horoscope has been *wrong* about me all these years?

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 21, 2024 02:34 PM (7fElN)

280 @270 we should arrest anyone who listened to Miss Cleo

Posted by: Smell the Glove at May 21, 2024 02:34 PM (enVpg)

281 If anyone wants a slightly longer diversion from wrack and ruin, here's a list of 10 "best" Hollywood car chase scenes (including the original "Gone in 60 Seconds" chase that's half the movie): https://tinyurl.com/wy8jaj7t

Posted by: Octochicken at May 21, 2024 02:35 PM (oCS0o)

282 Of course it was fraud. I never understood it. Even if you believe in that hocus-pocus, how could you believe that it would work over the phone or on the internet? How do they read your aura or whatever remotely?

Just like the fortune-teller apps. Modern day, AI-powered Miss Cleos, running the same old con.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 02:29 PM (d04cU)

Next on MSNBC: A psychic is revealed to be a fraud. Also, have you had your 8th booster yet? Better get it before it's too late. Stay tuned, we'll be right back after these messages on Your Most Honest and Reliable News Network On Teevee... brought to you, by Pzizer.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 21, 2024 02:35 PM (dGCAG)

283 How can the jury deliberate if they do not even know the felony charge? Do they have to decide the stupid misdemeanor and if guilty that just automatically kicks in the undefined felony one?


This is unreal. The Soviet Union show trials and nighttime arrests at least had a list of phony accusations and charges. God help anybody that falls into the hands of these tyrants.

Posted by: Ripley at May 21, 2024 02:35 PM (JojsZ)

284 [Of course it was fraud. I never understood it. Even if you believe in that hocus-pocus, how could you believe that it would work over the phone or on the internet? How do they read your aura or whatever remotely?

Just like the fortune-teller apps. Modern day, AI-powered Miss Cleos, running the same old con.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 21, 2024 02:29 PM (d04cU)

Her fraud was even deeper than that. She wasn't Jamaican, her psychics were all reading from scripts. I don't think that kind of fraud should even be actionable, but it wasn't even a sincere con.

Posted by: She's Be A Bad Person If She Eats Pussy! at May 21, 2024 02:35 PM (3as5t)

285 By the way if you don't already know the left's game plan for the rest of this year:

They are going to turn up the violence this summer BEFORE the election, just like they did in 2020. We are going to be locked down by Biden under Martial Law - since they'll blame US for THEIR violence. COUNT ON IT.

The Antifa crowd wearing Hamas towels now will put on Red Hats and burn cities like in 2020. This will be the theater to allow Biden to declare us violent insurrectionists, and lock everyone down under martial law. Absolutely predictable.

Posted by: An Observation sez China Joe not my president at May 21, 2024 02:37 PM (CecP5)

286 266 246

I have some hope that at least one of the attys on the jury may just throw up after listening to this farce.

It's the Alice In Wonderland of criminal trials.
Posted by: mnw
------
Of a piece like the other NY Judge declaring that the 2nd Amendment does not exist in her courtroom. The ridiculous 'fraud' trial, the ridiculous Jean Carroll part one and part two cases, and so on.

Then you have the Fedgov creating our own political prisoner class with Jan 6, the Mueller and Jack Smith investigations, etc.

What the lawfare group says about Trump is exactly what should be done to every single one of those judges, lawyers, and officeholders like Goldman. Their kind should never be allowed to exist again.

Posted by: whig at May 21, 2024 02:37 PM (PkS4e)

287 255 Yeah, they have that vibe. Grudgingly using elections and the appearance of legality until they can finally drop the pretense.





Posted by: callsign claymore at May 21, 2024 02:38 PM (TQYo8)

288 "Where's the redline here? At what point do we say enough, this far and no further? I'd genuinely like to know."

Yes. So would we.
Posted by: Bob at NSA at May 21, 2024 01:47 PM (5FPX4)

Fuck you, Bob.

Posted by: Zombie George Washington at May 21, 2024 02:39 PM (iODuv)

289 Repatriate Merchan back to Columbia in 2024.

Posted by: Alec Leamas at May 21, 2024 02:40 PM (xWXMn)

290 The Antifa crowd wearing Hamas towels now will put on Red Hats and burn cities like in 2020. This will be the theater to allow Biden to declare us violent insurrectionists, and lock everyone down under martial law. Absolutely predictable.
Posted by: An Observation sez China Joe
=====
Can't actually. Martial law is beyond Prezzie authority in the Insurrection Act. Just allows troops to be sent but the Insurrection Act as written does not supercede state authority policing powers.

Posted by: whig at May 21, 2024 02:42 PM (PkS4e)

291 I have never heard of a criminal trial not going to the jury immediately. This is a violation of due process

There have been so many instances of CLEAR violations of Trump’s due process rights, I actually believe Judge Merchin has opened up the door for Trump to sue him in federal court for violations of his constitutional rights.

Not that a jury would find Merchin liable in NY, but it’s the process that is the punishment.

Posted by: Czech Chick at May 21, 2024 02:45 PM (I6NNh)

292 Unbelievable. The crooked judge gave the jurors a week off, then they'll reconvene to hear opening arguments.

Do you think the jury members are not going to read about this trial and/or discuss it with friends and family during their week off? Human nature says that they will despite any court instructions. I am pretty sure that I would. How that may influence them is anyone's guess.

Posted by: Cheri at May 21, 2024 02:50 PM (oiNtH)

293

Judge “Juan” really wants that vacation home.

Posted by: Dr Huge Largemeat at May 21, 2024 02:50 PM (lMNEn)

294 Can't actually. Martial law is beyond Prezzie authority in the Insurrection Act. Just allows troops to be sent but the Insurrection Act as written does not supercede state authority policing powers.

In what dream world are you living? The one where things like laws and the Constitution matter to the left? Besides technically the state of martial law declared after the Civil War, has never ended. So yeah FJB can issue an executive order with automatic death penalties in it, and what the Fck are you going to do about it.

Posted by: An Observation sez China Joe not my president at May 21, 2024 02:51 PM (CecP5)

295 =====
Can't actually. Martial law is beyond Prezzie authority in the Insurrection Act. Just allows troops to be sent but the Insurrection Act as written does not supercede state authority policing powers.
Posted by: whig
--------------------

That implies an expectation of the rule of law.

Posted by: Braenyard at May 21, 2024 02:56 PM (EF8GF)

296 49 ***
Never mind, Joey. It's a moo point.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 21

Suposebly

Posted by: Joey at May 21, 2024 02:59 PM (8I4hW)

297 Agree with Joe Mannix (190)...

Jurors don't intimidate themselves.

Welcome to the new justice system...the same as the old ones. Lot of new "migrants" will be very familiar with it...having lived it in their countries. It's another "gift" other cultures bring.

Posted by: techsan at May 21, 2024 03:26 PM (uNveu)

298 294.

Its the stuff that revolutions and the terror are made of. And what am I going to do about it? Every man should raise the black flag when the government goes rogue.

Posted by: Fred at May 21, 2024 05:04 PM (bXvrr)

299 Gee, I cannot imagine why the judge would want th3 jury free to walk among the rest of the population, free to be confronted by family, friends, and random strangers, all eager to explain in explicit detail that they BETTER vote to convict.

Not to mention those mysterious guys with sunglasses and masks who will talk about random subjects, like “Nice house you’ve got here. Would be a shame if it ‘accidentally’ burnt down with alll your family inside. That kind of odd outcome always seems to happen to people who vote to acquit dangerous enemies of the country.”

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Posted by: what are the 12 universal laws at June 04, 2024 07:42 PM (DU4Qe)

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