Gun Thread: The Five-O of de May-O Edition!

Howdy, Y'all! Welcome to the wondrously fabulous Gun Thread! As always, I want to thank all of our regulars for being here week in and week out, and also offer a bigly Gun Thread welcome to any newcomers who may be joining us tonight. Howdy and thank you for stopping by! I hope you find our wacky conversation on the subject of guns 'n shooting both enjoyable and informative. You are always welcome to lurk in the shadows of shame, but I'd like to invite you to jump into the conversation, say howdy, and tell us what kind of shooting you like to do!

Holy Shitballs! How in the ever-loving Hell did it get to be May? As I predicted last week, May was just around the corner, and well dang if it didn't come true!

With that, step into the dojo and let's get to the gun stuff below, shall we?

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WeaselDoctrine
So who went to the range this week and focused on fundamentals? I mean, really focused on the task at hand? I probably don't give those who do enough credit, because frankly, it's not that easy to do. Sure, you might vaguely recall some retarded shit Weasel was yammering about the previous week on the Gun Thread about fundamentals and blah, blah, blah... just the usual crap, but are you really focused the whole time?. After all, you are already one tactical bad-ass mo-fo with a giant watch and the latest and greatest thing from Sig or Glock sporting a flashlight and optic and Pez dispenser. You read lots of internet stuff too, and impress the heck out of range babes with your mad skillz and drop rig holster. You go to the range and shoot and the results aren't too terrible, so who needs all the focusing and fundamentals crapola?

You do.

The single best way I know to focus all of your brain molecules and track progress is to keep score. It's really that simple. I intentionally try not to focus on competitive shooting here because I want this to be a general shooting-for-funsies-for-all thread and don't want it to turn into some boring, ultra-competitive, elite-shooter wanna-be deal. Having said that, I have always been a proponent of practicing with a purpose and keeping track of progress, and it turns out keeping score is very handy in that regard. Again, plinking is relatively easy, and shooting well for score is hard. It places you outside your comfort zone, and if you have the right attitude, causes you to try your best to make every shot count.

I will say it again, if you aren't participating in some sort of club level competitive shooting event, you are missing an inexpensive and fun way to very quickly up your game. The first time you go, you won't have any idea what you're doing and that's OK, but please avoid the temptation to just go to a match and watch. OK, maybe you can do that once, but the only way to learn and reap all the benefits is to go and participate. You will quickly find everyone is more than willing to help a new competitor, especially if you go with a good attitude, ask questions and are willing to learn. Not being an asshole is also helpful.

Please consider it. You will be surprised with how fun it is and how quickly you will improve.

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Competition Time!
In an amazing and totally not made up coincidence our pals blaster and sra blaster have started competing!

Since we went to the TxMoMe, sra blaster has been itching to compete in shooting. She looked a little at IDPA but locations and times did not gel for us. Then our local range started having "Steel Shoots." This is an "outlaw" competition that doesn't run under any sanctioning body. It's just indoor courses involving movement that are timed and scored and it was a good fit for us.
We did attend a training course for this that gave us a feel for how the events are run. Our first event we had a great time but scored poorly. We chalk it up as a learning experience. We've got our second event in a couple of days so we hope to do better and still have fun.

Here's how the courses are run: there is a setup in an indoor range and steel targets are arranged in various scenarios for you to shoot in a run. Some are static firing - stand here at this cone and shoot those targets 2x each. Some are in motion. Shoot at these targets while you are transiting from this point to this point. Some require a particular sequence - shoot the red target, then the yellow, then the red again. Some are shoot from behind an obstacle. An RSO follows you and times and keeps score and makes sure you aren't breaking any safety rules. You get one walkthrough and then it's time to shoot. After everyone in the group shoots the first course you move to the second.
No restrictions on equipment except you are limited to 3 magazines and you must have an OWB holster for your pistol and two mags. Also you must shoot frangible ammo since we are engaging steel at as little as 5 yards. Round count for a course may be over 40 so no math but that is going to leave 1911s out of the running. Everyone shot some high cap 9mm - Sigs, Glocks, and 2011s were on the menu.

This type of shooting is a real challenge. There is more than just putting a hole in a piece of paper. You have to think and remember and it's a competition also deal with adrenaline. And focus on fundamentals at the same time!
And then there is preparation. You need to have the right equipment. While three is the minimum number of mags to have, having 6 is better. Preloading them helps - I am loading each mag to 15 and then we will remove rounds to fit the scenario. We got caught short in the first event because we had to load 43 rounds in 3 mags in a short period of time - time that would have been better spent reviewing the course and watching others go ahead of us.
This is fun but I think it will ultimately make us better shooters, too. I hope our scores are better this time.

Very nicely done blaster and sra blaster!

Do you see this, people? Do you see? They had fun! They also realize this will make them better shooters. I call this a win-win situation with no downside other than perhaps initially demonstrating in public that you aren't quite ready for the SEAL Teams just yet. Always keep track of scores as a progress metric but don't obsess over them. They will get better fairly quickly as you begin to get comfortable with what you're doing. Simply set aside your ego as you learn, and listen more than you talk. Figure out who the best shooters are and become their bestest friends. Ask them how they do things and you are very likely to be surprised by how willing the truly accomplished shooters are to share.

Give it a try. I know we have some competitors here who can chime in on the value of shooting matches, so please speak up in the comments!

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FUNdamentals Review

Trigger placement

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Shelter On a Quiet Street

For the coming Spicy Times.

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Neutron Stars

These little guys seem like fun!

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2024 NoVAMoMe

Note: One of the great joys of NoVAMoMe season, at least for me, is being able to cut and paste the entire block of text below and haranguing you to register for the event. Have you registered? Are you focusing on the fundamentals of registration?

Alright, guys and gals, the long awaited and highly anticipated opening of 2024 NoVAMoMe registration is upon us! That's right, registration for the event of the season is open, which means you can register to attend! You see, in order to attend, you must first register, and then wait for June 8th, and then attend! It's really more of an application to attend based on whether we like you or not, but what have you got to lose?!

Q: Weasel, your world frightens and confuses us. How do we, how do you say, register for the NoVAMoMe?
A: Welp, it's pretty darn easy!

First, check your calendars for June 8th, 2024, and cancel anything already planned. Good so far? Then simply send an email to WeaselBell Productions expressing your interest, then sit back and anxiously wait for a reply. Our pal and most delightful 'ette and MoMe Hostess Extraordinaire bluebell will review your application and relevant permanent record notations to decide if you're NoVAMoMe material. If you're one of the chosen, you'll get a reply with a link and secret password to the registration site containing all the pertinent details. Look these over and complete the simple registration form, following the PayPal link provided at the end of the form to make your payment. The $30 pp fee covers appetizers, dinner (BBQ Chicken, hamburdogs, sides, and dessert) plus an unlimited amount of fun! Since we must guarantee a headcount to the caterer, all registrations must be made online by May 26th. We are not accepting payment for registration at the door. You do not need a PayPal account to register and can pay with any major credit card.

A NoVAMoMe PSA from our pal bluebell

Hi folks - just a quick PSA. If you write for info about the MoMe, please give us a few words in the body of the email just so I know you are a Moron and not a spammer (moron). I do receive spam on this email account because it's sitting right here in my nic, so that's why I'm asking. I don't want to give our details to a spammer. Also, once registered, remember to check your spam folder if you don't receive a confirmation email.
Thanks.
bluebell

Seriously, just send an email, go to the site with the password provided, fill out the simple form, and make your payment. If you forget, a link to the email is on the main page, left sidebar. If you do not sign up, bluebell will be disappointed. Weasel will be disappointed, too, but it's bluebell you need to worry about.

Win a Dream Date with Weasel!
Due to popular demand, we are again conducting a separate raffle for a Dream Date with Weasel This fabulous prize includes an entire day of shooting and personalized one-on-one handgun & rifle coaching and instruction at Weasel Acres on a mutually agreeable date with yours truly. The lucky winner will be able to not only bring and shoot their own weapons, but also try out a variety of WeaselWeapons using WeaselAmmo!

We will end the day with dinner at a good Mexican place in nearby Appomattox. The winner will be responsible for their travel to and from Central Virginia, hence the separate drawing.

Don't be a pathetic girly-man loser, register today!

Q: Weasel, anything else for 2024?
A: Why I'm glad you asked! There are in fact TWO things to mention for 2024.

First, we are again having a pre-party get-together the afternoon/evening before the main event. Details at the registration site.

Dos, we are again offering a NoVAMoMe commemorative mug for 2024 available only to NoVAMoMe participants!

We sincerely hope you can join the festivities. I promise you this event is as laid back and non-anxiety inducing as humanly possible, and nothing makes me happier than to meet new people who have been reluctant to join in the past. If sitting on the sidelines and just observing is your thing, you can do just that with zero pressure from anyone. I hope some of the past NoVAMoMe participants will jump in and share their thoughts on the event to inspire the scairdy-cat lurkers out there to throw caution to the wind and sign up!

That's it, people. Email WeaselBell Productions today!

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Monster From Green Hell!
Have I featured this before? For some reason I believe I have. If so, here it is again.

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Musical Interlude
Here is Henry Mancini with a few favorites.

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Gun Basics 101
No new video from the She Equips Herself gal, so here is a re-run on safety at the gym

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Cigar of the Week

This week our pal rhomboid scores again with this excellent review of the Stillwell Bayou No. 32

Steve Saka, the founder and master blender of Dunbarton Tobacco & Trust, is also a pipe smoker, and a while back he collaborated with the chief blender of the pipe tobacco company Cornell & Diehl to blend some pipe tobacco-based cigars. I've reviewed two here previously: the Aromatic No. 1 and the Navy 1056.
The Bayou No. 32 is another in the line, the name drawn from the use of Louisiana's unique and venerable Perique pipe tobacco, from St. James Parish. In Dunbarton's description, the Bayou No. 32 is "A combination of Bright and Red Virginia leaf with the most select St. James Parish Perique pipe tobacco added to a medium-bodied Nicaraguan puro".
More experienced pipe smokers than I can probably describe the flavors better, but to me the overall experience was a sort of sweet tangy earthiness. Very nice. Smoke was ample, and as with all Dunbarton sticks, construction was excellent. There a couple other interesting cigars in this line that I hope to try in the future. Stillwell Star sticks are not your everyday cigar (unless you've made a killing in bitcoin, or were far-sighted enough to snatch up lots of new-in-box Colt Pythons back in the 80s) - they go for $14 and up.

Excellent, rhomboid! Thank you!

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Here are some different online cigar vendors. You will find they not only carry different brands and different lines from those brands, but also varying selections of vitolas (sizes/shapes) of given lines. It's good to have options, especially if you're looking for a specific cigar.

Cigarsinternational.com
Cigarpage.com
Famous-smoke.com
Cigarsdaily.com
Neptunecigar.com
Smallbatchcigar.com
Bobalu Cigar Company
Cigarbid.com
Nicks Cigar World New!

A note about sources. The brick & mortar/online divide exists with cigars, as with guns, and most consumer products, with respect to price. As with guns - since both are "persecuted industries", basically - I make a conscious effort to source at least some of my cigars from my local store(s). It's a small thing, but the brick & mortar segment for both guns and tobacco are precious, and worth supporting where you can. And if you're lucky enough to have a good cigar store/lounge available, they're often a good social event with many dangerous people of the sort who own scary gunz, or read smart military blogs like this one. -rhomboid

Anyone have others to include? Perhaps a small local roller who makes a cigar you like? Send me your recommendation and a link to the site!

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Ammo Link-O-Rama
I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop
American Elite Ammo NEW!

***Mail Bag***

This week's mailbag entry is from our pal 10 Gallon Hat. Great one!

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Please note the new and improved protonmail account gunthread at protonmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. Future expansion plans are in the works for the site Weasel Gun Thread. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

Posted by: Weasel at 07:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Castella: Must have great preservatives.

Posted by: Ciampino - Bewbs? at May 05, 2024 07:00 PM (qfLjt)

2 wang

Posted by: Eromero at May 05, 2024 07:01 PM (NxC5+)

3 Good evening.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 07:02 PM (a3Q+t)

4 Present.

Posted by: andycanuck (UfUdn) at May 05, 2024 07:02 PM (UfUdn)

5 Hello, Weasel!

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 07:03 PM (yRXSd)

6 Evening All!!!!

To the content!!!!

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at May 05, 2024 07:03 PM (f0/sc)

7 Gubs!

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 05, 2024 07:03 PM (6vIY6)

8 Pew....Pew....

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at May 05, 2024 07:03 PM (QNSds)

9 YAY!

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:04 PM (1zxQh)

10 SPONGE!!!

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 05, 2024 07:04 PM (6vIY6)

11 As I predicted last week, May was just around the corner, and well dang if it didn't come true!
You're a veritable prophet, Weasel!

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:05 PM (1zxQh)

12 Thanks for the gun thread Weasel!

I'm going to have to read it later as we've been drafted for dinner at the BIL's place.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at May 05, 2024 07:05 PM (HDU5E)

13 Good evening host Weasel and the gubs Horde.
A brief range report to follow, and a request for assistance.

Posted by: Chappyman66 at May 05, 2024 07:05 PM (L3byd)

14 Nood.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 07:05 PM (a3Q+t)

15 Sorry! The Nood was supposed to be on the Food Thread.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 07:07 PM (a3Q+t)

16 Evening, Weasel and Gun Thread fans! I am making chips. By the time I am finished, 20% of my project piece will be aluminum chips, some of which will embed in my socks.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 05, 2024 07:07 PM (8zz6B)

17 I hereby nominate the Blasters for the coveted Pew-Pew Trophy of the Week!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 07:08 PM (HlyYF)

18 Howdy all y'all!

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 07:09 PM (JwHpX)

19 Late, but Taco-fed!
I love Mrs. Red.

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 07:10 PM (wrDSd)

20 Darn! Just got a text. Now I have to go over to the XII West pub in Gilbert, and meet friends for beer. Chip-making ends for today.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 05, 2024 07:10 PM (8zz6B)

21 14 Nood.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 07:05 PM

15 Sorry! The Nood was supposed to be on the Food Thread.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 07:07 PM

ONT up awful early today!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 07:10 PM (HlyYF)

22 15 Sorry! The Nood was supposed to be on the Food Thread.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 07:07 PM

Damn, thought I had dozed off there for a second!!

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at May 05, 2024 07:11 PM (f0/sc)

23 Good evening everyone

Posted by: Skip at May 05, 2024 07:11 PM (fwDg9)

24 20 Darn! Just got a text. Now I have to go over to the XII West pub in Gilbert, and meet friends for beer.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 05, 2024 07:10 PM

I just hate it when that happens!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 07:11 PM (HlyYF)

25 Shopping for my first rifle scope and am overwhelmed. The choice comes down to my shooting profile, the scope specifics and my budget. I get that. It's understanding scope specifics and applying them to shooting profiles that is daunting.

I think the way about is to learn about scope specifics. I know nothing, things like 3-9x40 are Chinese to me. But I can learn.

Can someone recommend a good reading to get myself some background knowledge?

Posted by: naftali at May 05, 2024 07:12 PM (WOh/Y)

26 Hi Gun thread.

Perique tobacco is a weird beast. By itself, it tastes like a roomful of well-used sweat socks would smell like if you left it for a month or two. Somehow it's magic with Virginia tobacco, though, adding depth of character and umami.

Posted by: Splunge at May 05, 2024 07:12 PM (oBPoz)

27 Round count for a course may be over 40 so no math but that is going to leave 1911s out of the running.
This is my only problem with this. It seems kinda plastic-gun-worshipy. (And, if I have to say so, very unrealistic. If I'm going somewhere I'm going to need 40 rounds in a single fight, I am NOT using my pistol. That will be a backup and for the occasional coup-de-gras.)

But, otherwise, I'm glad y'all had fun, Blaster and sra, and learned something.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:13 PM (1zxQh)

28 No range time for me this weekend, alas. I picked up a cold and a bit of a cough, so I stayed home to stop spreading my germs around. Cleaned a few guns instead.

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 07:13 PM (yRXSd)

29 Can someone recommend a good reading to get myself some background knowledge?
Posted by: naftali at May 05, 2024 07:12 PM (WOh/Y)
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Send me an email and I'll get you started.

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 07:14 PM (JwHpX)

30 Yes, after an excellent experience outdoors last weekend, I looked forward to returning to the indoor range to see if they translated. Yeah, not so much. After the first couple of mags on Friday, I wondered precisely what was going on. So, took a deep breath, stepped back and started evaluating what was different. Lighting was obviously #1, but it had to be more. So, worked on adjusting the stance, and that helped a bit. Then focused on breathing (why do I always forget to breathe?) and that helped some more. By the end of the session, improvement reigned. Went home and discussed lighting. Decided today to scrap the targets and go with white paper plates. What a significant difference! Sightlines are easier when you can actually see! Actually by focusing only on ALL the fundys, today was the first day we both left the range saying we had a good day. Still need to work on the posture (not hunching) and breathing. But encouraged is the word for today.

Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 07:14 PM (IQ6Gq)

31 Brief range report: (1/2)
Today was 22 WMR day at the range with my shooting buddy. He brought his Keltec PMR. I brought the AMT AutoMagII and my Charter Arms revolver.

The PMR and the AutoMag are fun. I prefer the AutoMag because my small hands don't work well with the wider grip of the PMR. That, and I really like the 80s stainless steel vibe of the AutoMag. We did well, and by practicing the fundamentals of grip (making the support hand stronger, using the strong hand for trigger work) I was able to punch consistent groups at 7 yards.

Posted by: Chappyman66 at May 05, 2024 07:15 PM (L3byd)

32 Saw this today on M-1 rifle grenades, if you have one check this out. If I had one I would want one

https://tinyurl.com/4799dv6u

Posted by: Skip at May 05, 2024 07:15 PM (fwDg9)

33 I'm having trouble sourcing a Pez dispenser for a Sig, the final piece to complete my badassitude. I know they exist for Glocks, but Sig seems unobtainium. Any suggestions?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 07:15 PM (a3Q+t)

34 Can someone recommend a good reading to get myself some background knowledge?

Posted by: naftali at May 05, 2024 07:12 PM

You are currently in the company of experts. (Not me.)

What rifle and round are you shooting? What is your expected main goal for shooting that gun?

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 07:16 PM (HlyYF)

35 Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:13 PM (1zxQh)
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Whether or not you agree with the match program, it's still excellent practice.

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 07:17 PM (JwHpX)

36 @Pillage Idiot. CZ-457. Target shooting. 50-100-300 yards

Posted by: naftali at May 05, 2024 07:18 PM (WOh/Y)

37 I continue to visit the range every week, and I continue to get better. The funny thing is that my progress is slower when I'm just practicing making myself do the things I know I should do, every time, and faster when I figure out that I'm doing something really wrong for me and should do something else instead.

I had one of those today. I had somehow gotten the idea, for the last couple of months, that my best possible grip involved curling my support hand finger around the front of the trigger guard. Maybe that works for you, but for me, it introduces a lot of left-right wobble, and limits the firmness of my grip.

Today I tried, instead, curling my support hand fingers around my shooting hand fingers on the grip, and wow. Recoil is now straight up and down now, and when it isn't, I can adjust that. I now have a lot more control over tuning just when the pistol gets back on target after a shot. It seems clear that I will have to tune the pressures for each different pistol, and once I do, accurate fast shooting will be mine.

Still have to get rid of some bad habits, but this advance in knowledge made me very happy.

Posted by: Splunge at May 05, 2024 07:18 PM (oBPoz)

38 Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 07:14 PM (IQ6Gq)
----
Excellent!

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 07:19 PM (JwHpX)

39 And TRex has us enrolled in a class on Core Pistol Development - not a competition, but a step on the way to one....

Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 07:19 PM (IQ6Gq)

40 Gub!

Posted by: Notorious BFD at May 05, 2024 07:20 PM (mH6SG)

41 Up twinkles for competition! The first IDPA match I did I couldn’t even remember to take the safety off.
And as soon as you start, the adrenaline makes it had to remember even basic instructions.
The more you do, though, the more those mistakes recede into the distance.
And there’s nothing like competition to test your focus- not on the sights, but on the putting together of all the fundamentals.

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 07:20 PM (wrDSd)

42 Posted by: Splunge at May 05, 2024 07:18 PM (oBPoz)
---
Good job!

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 07:21 PM (JwHpX)

43 Howdy, all!
I got 3 good days of shooting in this week (what day spent shooting is not good?). I stunk on ice with the pistol, but at least I think the light primer strike issue has been cured. Did a little better with the rifle. I wanted to make sure the EOTech sight on my secondary alternate emergency backup AR was still dialed in. It was. I concentrated on making sure it would hit where I wanted at 50 yards offhand, since I don't foresee a scenario in which I would use it at much greater distance. It's strictly for home defense.

Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at May 05, 2024 07:21 PM (3rnQf)

44 36 @Pillage Idiot. CZ-457. Target shooting. 50-100-300 yards

Posted by: naftali at May 05, 2024 07:18 PM

Do you shoot with buddies? I would look through some of their scopes at the range.

The 3x9 in your OP is the variable magnification. Target 3x larger up to 9x larger. The latter number (40) is the objective lens diameter which is usually in millimeters.

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 07:24 PM (HlyYF)

45 Posted by: naftali at May 05, 2024 07:12 PM (WOh/Y)

What everyone wants out of a scope will be different, so think about how you'd answer these questions.
1) How far out are you planning to engage targets? 200m? 500m? 1000m?
2) How much room do you have on top of your rifle? You'll have to select a scope based on what can fit there.
3) How will you mount your optic? 1913 Pic-rails? Scope rings? If scope rings, what dimensions do you need?
4) How tough does your glass have to be? Are you planning on using it for SHTF, for competition, or as a range toy?
5) What's your budget?
6) Do you plan to integrate the scope w/ other optical accessories (night vision, thermals, red dots, etc.)?
7) Illuminated reticles: If you go this route, battery power, or tritium?
I'm sure there are more questions, but that's what I can come up w/ really quickly.

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 07:24 PM (yRXSd)

46 Thank you, thank you and thank you to nurse that helped bring our IDPA thing to fruition. I am not intentionally leaving the other great people that made this happen because you have my eternal gratitude.

Posted by: Ben Had at May 05, 2024 07:24 PM (mKjJV)

47 Wow. Tactical Hyve dude is spot on! His example of martial arts (as defined as hand-to-hand type fighting) is exactly right. It's the principles behind the techniques/styles that makes them work. (Saw this, in particular, going from wrestling to judo classes.)

And, like martial arts, you need some "techniques" - kata - to get your body to be comfortable with the principles when you get started. And, just like with martial arts, it can be easy for instructors to forget the principles behind the kata and drill the kata endlessly without working toward the principle.

AN outstanding find, Weasel! (And not a 30 minute video, either!)

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:25 PM (1zxQh)

48 Gonna be getting a new scope myself. Nothing fancy. A Crossfire II for the 48 year old 10/22. Guess which one is still on it.
I bought one for the widow to put on her brand new 10/22. It's a ton better than what's on mine and I figure after almost 50 years, and all the bunnies and squirrels she's had a hand in, the ol' girl deserves it.
Btw, at 82, she shoots a 10 shot, 30 yard group you can cover with a nickel, not counting the occasional flyer.

Posted by: TeeJ at May 05, 2024 07:25 PM (xZpzx)

49 Monster From Green Hell!
So, they had environmentalists way back then, too?!

(Yes, I know they did. They were serious about it, too, composting old girlfriends they no longer needed.)

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:26 PM (1zxQh)

50 Hello Ben Had, I owe you an email. Need to send it tonight before I forget yet again.

Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 07:27 PM (IQ6Gq)

51 Good.even___.all.
Remember, it's better to be the shootER, than the shootEE.

Posted by: Diogenes at May 05, 2024 07:27 PM (W/lyH)

52 Brief range report (2/2) and request:

The Charter Arms is not as smooth as others, but it's small and potentially a carry possibility and in 22 WMR with ballistics "close" to a 38. I thought it was drifting left based on the last time out, so I brought my screwdrivers. Focusing on fundamentals again, I didn't need my screwdrivers.

I did however note that 3 of the cylinders were tight fitting (the rounds didn't drop all the way in) and thus also didn't eject cleanly. They would sit about 1/32" high, and have to be manually seated to close the cylinder and fire.
After firing, I could push them partway out with the ejector but they had to be manually pulled out. I was primarily shooting CCI MaxiMags but ran some older red box Federal ammo through it with similar results.

I have cleaned it thoroughly with a brass brush, so it should be clean....but it is clearly not smooth.
My question is: should I be considering a hone to open the cylinders slightly?
Insight from revolver masters appreciated.

No, I am not going to fix the problem by buying a different pistol. I can do that anyway, but not for this reason......

Posted by: Chappyman66 at May 05, 2024 07:27 PM (L3byd)

53 I got a little shooting in this week, and it will be awhile before my "shooting holler" dries out after today's rain. Just exercised the G17, the LCP (I practice with that left hand only because of the cane) and a little .22 plinking. Good news is my friend's son, a really smart young guy, is a welder. Young guy has been getting every certification he can and at the ripe age of 26 is a crew foreman. He has agreed to fab and has the sketch for a bullet trap and knows where he can get the material for free. Knowing him it's going to be "you wanted .22 safe so I upped it to Lahti anti tank gun".

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at May 05, 2024 07:29 PM (V5eKu)

54 Splunge, just a bit of reading on perique tobacco revealed some interesting tidbits. It's fermented in hickory ex-whisky barrels - under pressure, physical pressure, with big jack-screws pressing down a plate on the pilons (well, there's a French name for the bundles of leaves, but I forgot what it is). Unique AFAIK in the tobacco biz.

There are at least two other companies making cigars with perique in the blend - Connecticut Valley Tobacconist, and the big Philippines tobacco company, Tabaclera Incorporada.

Posted by: rhomboid at May 05, 2024 07:29 PM (GcNJ2)

55 Grateful, I'm always glad to hear from you anytime. I have a breathe and squeeze exercise for you .

Posted by: Ben Had at May 05, 2024 07:30 PM (mKjJV)

56 My daughter competes in youth steel challenge. It's competitive, especially amongst the kids in Texas. She will be competing in Ohio for Nationals for the second year. Her times have improved substantially but it is extremely competitive. Some of the times that are being put up are incredible.
The majority of guns are .22 rifles then pistols. There are lots of kids shooting PCC's, 1911's, center fire pistols, & revolvers in .22 and 9mm. The spawn is just shooting in .22 so far. It's easier on the wallet with as many rounds as she shoots in a season. She destroyed her upper on her Volquartsen 2 Mondays ago and they had a brand new to us by the following Monday. Excellent customer service. Many kids have literally had guns wear out with the amount of shop they do and the questionable maintenance the kids do. 😳

Posted by: lin-duh at May 05, 2024 07:31 PM (PZo5T)

57 Good evening horde and hello Weasel-san.

As Grateful said, we continue on our path of fundamentals progress. Friday at the range had glimpses of hope but today was much, much better. Out of my sight, Grateful mixed snapcaps in with live ammo for six mags. Those went well and then I reverted back to only live ammo. Small clusters and no "down and to the right" trends. It was a GOOD range day. And I got to go home with the only range babe that mattered.

Posted by: TRex at May 05, 2024 07:31 PM (IQ6Gq)

58 Posted by: lin-duh at May 05, 2024 07:31 PM (PZo5T)
----
Nice!

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 07:33 PM (JwHpX)

59 whig, Ed L, others, I sent off my order for an M1 this past week! They were out of the Service Grade, so I had to add a couple hundred more dollars and go for the Expert Grade.

If I have $500 and a trip to a CMP store in mind, I will also get a Drill Grade. Because that's what I hauled around for 4 years, and did more than a few tours* with.

(* Punishment marching)

Next bonus check: a Colt Python, I hope!

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:33 PM (1zxQh)

60 TRex is being modest. After the snap cap exercise, he was firing 5 bullets in a line that measured one inch! Another time, he put 3 bullets in the same hole and the other 2 in another hole. Fantastic result!

Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 07:34 PM (IQ6Gq)

61 not counting the occasional flyer.
Posted by: TeeJ at May 05, 2024 07:25 PM

Don't worry about those; we all have them.

Posted by: The Fourth Shot at May 05, 2024 07:34 PM (a3Q+t)

62 Anyone else shoot more consistently when you're too exhausted to flinch or anticipate recoil?

Posted by: Splunge at May 05, 2024 07:34 PM (oBPoz)

63 Posted by: TRex at May 05, 2024 07:31 PM (IQ6Gq)
---
Good job! Keep focusing!

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 07:34 PM (JwHpX)

64 naftali,

I primarily shoot for hunting. I went out and scouted several of my expected shots with some of my cheaper scopes when it was still light and then stayed as night fell. It was obvious what magnification ranges would be suitable for my application.

I think it will be easy for you to pick the magnification you require for shooting at those distances.

Almost every other aspect is VERY price related. Larger objective lenses generally gather more light, so it is easier to see the game (or target) in low-light conditions. It is also easier to have a perfectly crisp image as you go to full magnification as you move up in scope prices.

end Part 1.

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 07:35 PM (HlyYF)

65 Cleaned a few guns instead.
Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 07:13 PM (yRXSd)

Yeah, but now your guns are all germy for your next range trip.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:35 PM (1zxQh)

66 Posted by: The Fourth Shot at May 05, 2024 07:34 PM (a3Q+t)
---
Yup.

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 07:35 PM (JwHpX)

67 A lot of expert shooters let me look through their rig at a MoMe. I believe every single one had a scope that cost equal to or more than their very nice rifle.

If you are on a budget, I would get a lower price point scope from one of the good manufacturers. Those are so affordable. After you use if for a while, you will then be able to determine exactly what you need. Then you can upgrade you optic.

You might think you are then wasting your first scope. I predict not, you will almost certainly purchase another rifle and can put your scope on that gun!

end Part 2.

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 07:35 PM (HlyYF)

68 Steel shoots are my preference. Paper's OK, suppose you get more info on your accuracy, but scoring/taping/etc soaks up lots of time, and is a big factor in keeping round counts low. Which is bad/boring. At least here, doing a match kills most of a day, with driving and all figured in, so round counts

Used to be a big steel shoot, 80 minute drive away, that had a round count north of *200*. That's what I'm talking about. Makes the time worth it.

Posted by: rhomboid at May 05, 2024 07:36 PM (GcNJ2)

69 Range Day! Range Report!

It works! Got to shoot the new G48 with it's Holosun properly affixed thanks to all of you and especially Blaster. I was shooting a little low and to the left. Hrothgar had brought a stand so Blaster was able t o help adjust the sight. Voila! Perfect. I was even shooting the upper targets without a problem. It was such a relief to find out that all that practice with first teh G44, then G48 translated perfectly to the new pistol.
I then pulled out the Kimber. I will never get over how easy that gun is to shoot. It does feel like cheating. I like the trigger pull much better than the Glock. So smooth.
All in all, an extremely satisfying trip to the range.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 05, 2024 07:36 PM (t/2Uw)

70 Send me an email and I'll get you started.
Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 07:14 PM (JwHpX)

You know, Weasel, it might be a good topic for a couple of Gun Threads....

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:36 PM (1zxQh)

71 52 You might want to try a stiff bore brush with a little lube and some really coarse scouring powder. Make a lot of passes through each chamber while watching TV or whatever, don't spare the scouring powder and that may smooth it up. A lot of clay shooters used to do that when plastic hulls would leave a chamber residue.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at May 05, 2024 07:36 PM (V5eKu)

72 Dang.
That's the third time today I have botched a post. Stoopid kindle.

Anyway...I actually did get to the range this last week.
A retired Air Force dude drug me out of the cave, and we had a good time. The range is always better than just the Strikeman.
Interesting experience. I was shooting several.of mine and was doing generally ok, but nothing great. He passed me his Baretta M9, just like the one I carried my last few years in the Army. It was like coming home.
Fired two magazines and the black part of the target (not the writing at the bottom of the paper) mostly disappeared.

Sometimes a piece just...fits.

Posted by: Diogenes at May 05, 2024 07:37 PM (W/lyH)

73 Posted by: Chappyman66 at May 05, 2024 07:27 PM (L3byd)

Chappyman, before you start messing around with the revolver itself, why don't you try changing the ammo you use first? Changing the ammo brand you use is a lot cheaper than monkeying around w/ the gun itself. If you're going to do something to gun itself, I'd get a gunsmith to do it. Unless you really know what you're doing, I wouldn't mess around w/ changing the dimensions of the revolver cylinders.

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 07:37 PM (yRXSd)

74 My question is: should I be considering a hone to open the cylinders slightly?

I think the first thing I would do is contact the manufacturer's customer service. Guns are mechanical devices and sometimes out-of-spec parts make it past QC. Most manufacturers will try to make it right for you.

Posted by: Oddbob at May 05, 2024 07:39 PM (/y8xj)

75 Naftali, that sounds much like the .22 aspirin shoots I do. 50, 100, 150 and 200, with an occasional 300 yd bonus.
Most of us are shooting 5x25 power. You really need the 25 power magnification to even see the target.
First focal plane v. Second focal plane is more a personal choice. FFP means the crosshairs change size depending on the power you use, but they are optically correct at any range (the sight gradations will always be, e.g., one minute of angle regardless of power).
SFP keeps the crosshairs the same size regardless of power. They are optically correct at only one setting, e.g., at 18 power.
The reason for the two is highly technical and beyond the “scope” of this introduction.
Pick one which feels comfortable. I prefer SFP because the aiming dot is always the same size. It does not change with magnification.
Shorter answer. Come to TX MoMe where everyone will let you try theirs.
BTW, shooting 22 at anything over a 100 will try your patience and skills. But doing it in competition will improve them quickly.

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 07:39 PM (wrDSd)

76 Skip, was thinking of the In Range TV episode when you mentioned M1 rifle grenades. Pretty awesome what those guys do/did in searching out surplus parts and especially the inert/training rounds. I need to check in on Gun Jesus' channel, do so occasionally. He also had an episode or two on flamethrowers (at least the US WWII standard one). And he's turned his fun into a job, which is most excellent.

Posted by: rhomboid at May 05, 2024 07:40 PM (GcNJ2)

77 "So who went to the range this week and focused on fundamentals? I mean, really focused on the task at hand?"

Ooh! mememememememe.

I'm not really a range guy, more for the field, but I was so sick of missing the critters I took 2 snap caps and 100 shells for a bit of 50/50 dry/live fire.

It turns out that after stepping up to a 12ga from the .22 I was flinching like a b*tch and didn't even realise it.

I focused on trigger pull and sight alignment then headed out to the stomping ground. The result?

12 shots, 8 hits

Posted by: Nato at May 05, 2024 07:40 PM (ciuRb)

78 Posted by: Splunge at May 05, 2024 07:18 PM (oBPoz)

Excellent discovery, Splunge!

I know my support hand is likely one of my problems, as I shoot better one-handed than two-handed.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:40 PM (1zxQh)

79 72/
Diogenes, what a great experience. Thanks for sharing it!

Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 07:41 PM (IQ6Gq)

80 Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:33 PM (1zxQh)

I don't think you'll be disappointed with either. Also, Colt Pythons are more readily available than ever. Colt's got a lot of options to choose from for the Python with a variety of both barrel lengths and finishes (matte stainless, satin stainless, and blue). You might even be able to score a deal on one, especially the older 4.25" and 6" satin stainless versions, which have been out the longest.

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 07:42 PM (yRXSd)

81 That guy in the last picture staring at the sunset is our brother though we may not share a name.

Posted by: Eromero at May 05, 2024 07:42 PM (NxC5+)

82 Chappyman, before you start messing around with the revolver itself, why don't you try changing the ammo you use first? Changing the ammo brand you use is a lot cheaper than monkeying around w/ the gun itself. If you're going to do something to gun itself, I'd get a gunsmith to do it. Unless you really know what you're doing, I wouldn't mess around w/ changing the dimensions of the revolver cylinders.
Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 07:37 PM (yRXSd)
-----
If after a thorough cleaning the problem isn't resolved, try different ammo. If that doesn't work, have a gunsmith look at it. Altering chamber dimensions even a little bit can cause trouble. Sometimes chambers are just tight due to wear in the machining tools. I have a .38 like that.

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 07:42 PM (JwHpX)

83 Hmmm. Mysterious dropped text there. Shoulda ended:

"At least here, doing a match kills most of a day, with driving and all figured in, so round counts *lower than 100* are unimpressive, so much so that one stand-by match with dwindling round counts dropped off my list until new managers increased the round count again.

Posted by: rhomboid at May 05, 2024 07:43 PM (GcNJ2)

84 Thank you very much Pillage Idiot and Ed. I will read all that very carefully.

I will send you an email @Weasel, thank you very much.

Posted by: naftali at May 05, 2024 07:45 PM (WOh/Y)

85 "you wanted .22 safe so I upped it to Lahti anti tank gun".
Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at May 05, 2024 07:29 PM (V5eKu)

Over-engineering for the win!

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:45 PM (1zxQh)

86 Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 05, 2024 07:36 PM (t/2Uw)

Yay! Nice to know that it all works now.

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 07:45 PM (yRXSd)

87 Nice shooting blaster and sra blaster!

Run and Gun should be on everyone's list as well as working on the fundamentals as moving and shooting will bring your shooting to the next level. Move, shoot off hand, move, shoot kneeling, move shoot prone and practice reloads as needed. Mix it up and have fun with both rifles and handguns.

Contact!

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at May 05, 2024 07:45 PM (R/m4+)

88 I have been shooting with family at a "temporary" range on our farm. Still working on final designs.

However, when I was clearing trees, I found a beautiful little spot for a pistol range. Nestled in one of our tiny bits of forest, the trees create some shade and some sound baffles. There is also a natural backstop with the creek terrace.

It will be much nicer to shoot pistols there in the summer compared to the wide-open rifle range.

Any reason NOT to separate the pistol range from the rifle range? Only one would ever be used at a time.

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 07:45 PM (HlyYF)

89 What Weasel and others said, re tight revolver chambers. Thorough cleaning, then manufacturer or gunsmith if no joy. Personally I wouldn't settle for an ammo change. A properly sized chamber will easily work with any standard factory ammo that's in spec. No reason to settle for less.

Posted by: rhomboid at May 05, 2024 07:46 PM (GcNJ2)

90 Nice range report, sharon!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 07:47 PM (HlyYF)

91 Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:35 PM (1zxQh)

Can't be helped. I'm trying to get through a backlog of dirty guns when my cold will let me.

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 07:49 PM (yRXSd)

92 Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 05, 2024 07:36 PM (t/2Uw)
----
Glad it's working for you now.

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 07:49 PM (JwHpX)

93 Hey top 100!
No shooting this weekend - hopping with other stuff. Great to see the blasters having fun. Have a great week all and thanks Weasel

Posted by: Coelacanth at May 05, 2024 07:50 PM (evLTX)

94 lin-duh,

Thanks for the Spawn update. I will be rooting for her in July.

I wish my daughters had worn out the barrel of a rifle. Right now, the keys on a cell phone are only things at risk of catastrophic failure for them!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 07:50 PM (HlyYF)

95 Most manufacturers will try to make it right for you.
Posted by: Oddbob at May 05, 2024 07:39 PM (/y8xj)

Or they might just have a tip that you haven't thought of (but they know because lots of calls about it).

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:50 PM (1zxQh)

96 12 shots, 8 hits

Posted by: Nato at May 05, 2024 07:40 PM

On critters? Nice!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 07:53 PM (HlyYF)

97 Had our annual parish team qualification at the range this week. It's the same scoring TN uses for CCL licensing.

Most everyone shot well but a few guys shouldn't have even been there. They seemed completely unfamiliar with their weapons - didn't know how to field strip them at all.

The RSO had his hands full - a few of the guys only shoot this once a year and it shows. Lack of safe weapon handling and poor range discipline was rampant.

Most of the fellas are retired FBI/DEA/State Troopers/etc. so it's not like they have no experience. But time marches on and most of the team is late 70s - and one or two are early 80's. I'm the youngster of the group so imagine what the demographic is.

Sad.

Posted by: Tonypete at May 05, 2024 07:53 PM (x7plP)

98 I love restoration weapons video's, started on on a extremely rusted MP-40 but didn't finish it. It was so bad holes were through the weapon, didn't think it was worth it except as a wall decoration.

Time to turn this off. Hope everyone has a great evening

Posted by: Skip at May 05, 2024 07:54 PM (fwDg9)

99 You might even be able to score a deal on one, especially the older 4.25" and 6" satin stainless versions, which have been out the longest.
Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 07:42 PM (yRXSd)

I'm still loving that 4.25" of yours (the 2020). I'm thinking, for me, that's the sweet spot of revolver shooting.

Then, of course, if I win the lotto, I'll get one of everything, and put up a nice display on the wall.

Oh, and thank you (and whig and everyone else) for all the advice and help on everything. Y'all are the best group of folks just about anywhere.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:54 PM (1zxQh)

100 PI. There is no choosing. Two ranges are better than one.
Seriously, though, the use of handguns is short range. Might as well practice at short range. And vice versa.

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 07:55 PM (wrDSd)

101 87 Posted by: Hairyback Guy at May 05, 2024 07:45 PM (R/m4+)

Having aspirations to shoot USPSA someday, I spoke with a guy this weekend who shoots and wins regularly in USPSA open. His advice for developing skills at Run-N-Gun is to do it at home, dry-firing an unloaded pistol, and observing its motion as you move, adjusting your motions so that you would be ready to shoot on target at any time. Quote "there's no reason to go to the range to practice moving with a pistol."

Posted by: Splunge at May 05, 2024 07:56 PM (oBPoz)

102 In deference to our host, I'm not going to engage in anything political on this thread. However. I watched the documentary "Screams Before Silence" (JJ had a link to it on one of his Morning Reports this week). It relates some of the events of the October 7 massacre through interviews with survivors. Two stories really struck me. The first was a girl relating how her father took a railing from his daughter's bed as the only weapon he could find. The terrorists killed him and several of his children and took the teenaged girl and her mother hostage. The second was a security guard at the music festival hiding (playing dead) and hearing the screams of a girl being gang-raped and murdered yards away. He said, "I wished I had a gun. Maybe I could help."
This is why I carry. And why I practice.

Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at May 05, 2024 07:56 PM (3rnQf)

103 Eromero,

I have a hazy memory, that you used to help train LEOs for shooting qualifications?

If so, what did you do differently for the poor shooters to get them up to qualifying level?

(I am never going to be a crack shot like many of the Moron Horde. However, I do need to improve to the level of "competent".)

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 07:57 PM (HlyYF)

104 Rhomboid, what is the fixture beneath that fine looking seegar?

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 07:57 PM (wrDSd)

105 - @61 - the fourth shot

I don't worry about them,,, at least with her. Especially when we're talking an inch out.
And her,,, "There was a wasp on the target I was shooting at."
Gal is a load of fun. Best thing about her is her love of the Lord. And prays for me every day. I'll take having a praying grandmother on my side any day of the week.
Looking forward to pickings to give her from the garden I've put in for her since I met her. 3rd one.

Posted by: TeeJ at May 05, 2024 07:58 PM (xZpzx)

106 I need to check in on Gun Jesus' channel, do so occasionally. He also had an episode or two on flamethrowers (at least the US WWII standard one). And he's turned his fun into a job, which is most excellent.
Posted by: rhomboid at May 05, 2024 07:40 PM (GcNJ2)

Here is Ian when he started out...on his kitchen floor 11 years ago.

GunLab. Before Forgotten Weapons.

Vulcan V15...worst rifle ever.

https://tinyurl.com/2mjxkk83

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at May 05, 2024 07:59 PM (R/m4+)

107 The RSO had his hands full - a few of the guys only shoot this once a year and it shows. Lack of safe weapon handling and poor range discipline was rampant.

Most of the fellas are retired FBI/DEA/State Troopers/etc. so it's not like they have no experience.

🙄

Posted by: Oddbob at May 05, 2024 08:00 PM (/y8xj)

108 Any reason NOT to separate the pistol range from the rifle range? Only one would ever be used at a time.

IMHO, they are kind of apples and oranges, so to speak, and should ideally be their own entities. Having said that, you obviously have to work with what ya got.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at May 05, 2024 08:01 PM (mH6SG)

109 PI, having a shady place to shoot from in the summer sounds pretty nice. A little table with a pitcher of lemonade....
I don;t get to shoot outside all that much but the Rifle range in Texas gets pretty darn hot so an alternate spot for those days would be ideal.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 05, 2024 08:02 PM (t/2Uw)

110 "I wished I had a gun. Maybe I could help."
This is why I carry. And why I practice.
Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at May 05, 2024 07:56 PM (3rnQf)

Package that with the testimony of the lady from the Luby's shooting in Texas a few decades ago. We live in such a safe society (even, mostly, in Israel) that we just assume the system magically works to keep us safe. Don't believe it - carry. Carry all the time. Carry what you can shoot. (Or, carry what's legal.) Stay alert. And always know that the only real first responder to any badness happening to you is YOU.

The safest place in northern Virginia every other Sunday? Wherever the DMV MGC is eating lunch.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 08:02 PM (1zxQh)

111 Thanks RI Red.

No one in the family is a hard core shooter. I think making the pistol range more "comfortable" will result in more usage. Which is my ultimate goal.

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 08:03 PM (HlyYF)

112 Re Run&Gun. I’ve found that one of the best byproducts is the familiarization with the mechanics of gun handling: drawing, engaging, mag changes all while under stress and moving.
There’s an old saying that, in a “real” situation, you always operate DOWN to the level of your training (you will not suddenly improve to star status).
It is true.

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 08:04 PM (wrDSd)

113 hey weasel indoor steel shoot sounds like a lot of fun.
great thread tonight and yes i remember the green monster video.

Posted by: rancherbob at May 05, 2024 08:05 PM (21WHr)

114 And, to connect to TeeJ's post about the praying grandmother...

Blessed be the Lord, my rock,
who trains my hands for war,
and my fingers for battle;
Psalm 144:1

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 08:06 PM (1zxQh)

115 Oh, yeah. Hearing protection. It's never too late. A lot of us of a certain age were pretty cavalier about the ear plugs, or had some military experience where they were not an option at the time. Even though you walk around saying "what did you say" or the Bells of St Mary's are ringing that damage might not reverse but you can keep it from getting worse. I use wax earplugs and ear muffs. The reason I brought this up was watching a WW2 video of a Kraut MG42 crew. A Gunner has the muzzle on his shoulder, holding bi pod. Gunner is letting loose with 1100 rpm. A Gunner returned to Swabia and is now known as Kurt the Deaf.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at May 05, 2024 08:07 PM (V5eKu)

116 109 PI, having a shady place to shoot from in the summer sounds pretty nice. A little table with a pitcher of lemonade....

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 05, 2024 08:02 PM

Your description sounds perfect for my "target demographic". I want it to be fun so wife and daughters can shoot competently if they ever need to IRL, and more family time is always a win.

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 08:08 PM (HlyYF)

117 Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 07:54 PM (1zxQh)

If you go to gun shows or your LGS, keep an eye out for "Blemished" Pythons. These "blemished" guns flunked the final Colt QA check for their finish, so they're sold at a substantial discount, anywhere from $200 to $500 off. The two examples I've handled looked OK at first glance. One had the slip in polishing hidden under the grips, so it wasn't visible unless you removed the grips first. The other was barely noticeable at the edge of the frame by the hammer. If you're going to shoot your Python, this is a great opportunity to save some $$.

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 08:09 PM (yRXSd)

118 Howdy rancherbob!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 08:09 PM (HlyYF)

119 GWB
Looking forward to getting to shoot with you.
Reminder: If you want to shoot with the DMV MGC the day after the VAMoMe, send me an email.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 05, 2024 08:09 PM (t/2Uw)

120 Quote "there's no reason to go to the range to practice moving with a pistol."
Posted by: Splunge at May 05, 2024 07:56 PM (oBPoz)

Excellent advice. You can never go wrong with dry firing practice run and gun in and outside your home if you've got the room, moving, etc.

Just make sure you don't scare the neighbors.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at May 05, 2024 08:11 PM (R/m4+)

121 Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 08:02 PM (1zxQh)

After the massacre I remember being flabbergasted to learn how very few Israelis were allowed access to personal weapons. I had figured that there, of all places, most folks would be armed. Just think how the outcome would have been different if a 100, or 200, concert goers had been armed.

Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at May 05, 2024 08:11 PM (3rnQf)

122 RI Red, that's a set of Lee 45ACP dies, installed in the turret (I have a 4-hole Lee turret press). And of course cases and bullets on the margins of the photo. Set up to reload God's Own Caliber here soon.

And kudos for responding (wittingly or not) to Duncanthrax's good-natured ribbing in recent weeks about nobody commenting on the cigar pics' backgrounds ....

Posted by: rhomboid at May 05, 2024 08:12 PM (GcNJ2)

123 Posted by: rancherbob at May 05, 2024 08:05 PM (21WHr
----
Howdy, rb! I thought it sounded familiar!

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 08:12 PM (RG6z4)

124 Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 08:09 PM (HlyYF)

Howdy pillage idiot!

Posted by: rancherbob at May 05, 2024 08:13 PM (21WHr)

125 If you go to gun shows or your LGS, keep an eye out for "Blemished" Pythons.

If you're going to shoot your Python, this is a great opportunity to save some $$.

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 08:09 PM

Great advice. I assume nothing with a tiny defect that could be a safety issue would ever make it out of the factory and to the public? (They are ALL cosmetic?)

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 08:13 PM (HlyYF)

126 To be clear, that eye roll emoji was not directed at Tonypete but at the idea that LEOs as a group are particularly competent when it comes to shooting or gun handling.

Posted by: Ahnuld at May 05, 2024 08:13 PM (/y8xj)

127 /RINO sock from yesterday

Posted by: Oddbob at May 05, 2024 08:14 PM (/y8xj)

128 Reminder: If you want to shoot with the DMV MGC the day after the VAMoMe, send me an email.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 05, 2024 08:14 PM (t/2Uw)

129 RancherBob!!!

Thank you so very much for inviting so many of us to your property year after year to eat, shoot and celebrate being together. It is just amazing you and Jennifer do this for us. Thank you.

Posted by: nurse ratched at May 05, 2024 08:15 PM (sFnTw)

130 Rhomboid, it was witting. From someone who is not a whole Wit.
I smoke cigars once every 10 years or so. I think I’m going to have to imbibe again. Maybe TX.

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 08:17 PM (wrDSd)

131 Howdy pillage idiot!

Posted by: rancherbob at May 05, 2024 08:13 PM

I hope your cattle are currently converting prodigious amounts of grass into beef since you explained the current market conditions to them!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 08:17 PM (HlyYF)

132 Kind of a different range report: I turned 70 when Covid hit and I quit going to the range. Now 74 I told myself to get off my butt and go do some shooting. I took two pistols - a .380 and a .22. I didn't go for "training" but just to see if I could still hit the broad side of a barn. GREAT FUN. Got to talk to younger shooters, let them try out my two pistols and just remembered how fun shooting can be. I'm not going to do my 7mm Rem Mag but there are a bunch of guns in my safe that need exercise in the future!

Posted by: oldgeezer at May 05, 2024 08:19 PM (Wb5vb)

133 114 Blessed be the Lord, my rock,
who trains my hands for war,
and my fingers for battle;
Psalm 144:1

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 08:06 PM
***
Amen.

Posted by: TRex at May 05, 2024 08:19 PM (IQ6Gq)

134 Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 08:13 PM (HlyYF)

Correct. Slips in the polishing process for the finish before the guns ship only. No problems with the revolver's operation. The finish on the new Pythons are, I think, among the best production finishes found today, even if they can't hold a candle to the old-school polishing methods using walrus hides on the polishing wheel and polishing media as fine as flour.

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 08:21 PM (yRXSd)

135 After the massacre I remember being flabbergasted to learn how very few Israelis were allowed access to personal weapons. I had figured that there, of all places, most folks would be armed. Just think how the outcome would have been different if a 100, or 200, concert goers had been armed.

Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at May 05, 2024 08:11 PM

That was exactly my same thought.

There are frequently pictures on the internet of attractive IDF ladies apparently off duty but still toting their service rifles in public. I guess there was some observational bias due to cuteness rather than frequency in the posting of those photos.

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 08:21 PM (HlyYF)

136 Posted by: oldgeezer at May 05, 2024 08:19 PM (Wb5vb)
-----
Very nice!

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 08:22 PM (JwHpX)

137 Set up to reload God's Own Caliber here soon.
Posted by: rhomboid at May 05, 2024 08:12 PM

Looking forward to your range report!

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 08:23 PM (a3Q+t)

138 - @115
What's that ya said Bill?
Former asst gunner on 155 towed. Ear plugs? Can't hear commands being shouted.
Just hold your mouth open when firing, they said.
It'll equalize the pressure, they said.
Tack on 15 stage years with a snare betwixt my legs and...

Posted by: TeeJ at May 05, 2024 08:23 PM (xZpzx)

139 As I understand it, Israelis were and are allowed access to personal weapons, but have to apply. They, like many of us, forgot the importance of being able to defend themselves. I also learned that since Oct 7 the number of applications has sky rocketed. Lesson learned.

Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 08:24 PM (IQ6Gq)

140 I'm hoping this ablation works on Friday so I can CC again. Too uncomfortable now.

Posted by: lin-duh at May 05, 2024 08:25 PM (PZo5T)

141 Thanks for another good Gub Thread, Weasel!

Thanks for all of the advice and entertainment, Horde!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 08:26 PM (HlyYF)

142 Random questions for those who carried/carry as LEO or military: Did/do you have a discipline for frequency of cleaning? If so, was it a best practice/something you learned or adopted or was it mandated for you?

Mostly curious how organizations avoid letting their people get lazy.

Posted by: TRex at May 05, 2024 08:27 PM (IQ6Gq)

143 My pleasure, PI!

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 08:27 PM (JwHpX)

144 138 Was that you TeeJ? Damn birds are chirping.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at May 05, 2024 08:28 PM (V5eKu)

145 Eromero,

I have a hazy memory, that you used to help train LEOs for shooting qualifications?

If so, what did you do differently for the poor shooters to get them up to qualifying level?

(I am never going to be a crack shot like many of the Moron Horde. However, I do need to improve to the level of "competent".)
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 07:57 PM (HlyYF)
Pillage Idiot, I’ve had training from LEOs but I’ve never trained LEOs. My firearms training is from military service and defense contractors (plenty ammo). These days I train for defense situations, basic shoot/move/withdraw. Hits on man-size targets, reload, don’t trip over my feet. Anything further is get to my long gun, at my age maneuver is for the young. This is my reality, yours may be different.

Posted by: Eromero at May 05, 2024 08:28 PM (NxC5+)

146 Well, time for an AR10 range report:
Last week I finally found the node that was less than an inch at 100.
So, because I can’t leave well enough alone, I worked on bullet seating depth. Starting from near mag length to down a bunch (term of art).
50 rounds later I can report that the books are right. My original length was best.
I did forget my tripod, so no velocity info. The last three depths, however, were clearly gaining speed rapidly, going from left .5 and down .5 to right .5 and up 2.0.
No pressure signs on the brass other than a bit of extractor scrape.
So, science experiment over. Next range trip I’ll start moving out to distance.

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 08:28 PM (wrDSd)

147 Lin-duh,
Have you experimented with off badly carry? I picked up a leather crossbody purse that has a holster pocket. It is a little clunky, but I'm getting smoother with the draw on it.

Posted by: nurse ratched at May 05, 2024 08:29 PM (KFH84)

148 Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 08:21 PM (HlyYF)

I heard/read that a lot of the Israeli settlers (who are far more likely to be armed than your average Israeli) were mostly disarmed in the late 1980s and early 1990s because of their tendency to embark on "Earp Vendetta Rides" against local Palestinians when attacked. Not sure if this is true or not, though. But we're a long way from the days when the Uzi was ubiquitous among the kibbutzniks.

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 08:29 PM (yRXSd)

149 Posted by: TRex at May 05, 2024 08:27 PM (IQ6Gq)

In the Marine Corps, a dirty weapon was an abomination and a stench in the nostrils of the Almighty. Weapons were cleaned after every firing session, in garrison or in the field. We cleaned our M16s every day for 3 consecutive days after firing.

Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at May 05, 2024 08:31 PM (3rnQf)

150 Nurse, “off badly carry” is discouraged on the GT!

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 08:32 PM (wrDSd)

151 - oldgeezer

Holy cow! There's someone here older than me!
My friend, I had a muzzle break put on my 7. Helps a ton. Though it only gets a scope check before season then one freedom seed per deer.

Posted by: TeeJ at May 05, 2024 08:32 PM (xZpzx)

152 We cleaned our M16s every day for 3 consecutive days after firing.
Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at May 05, 2024 08:31 PM (3rnQf)

Wow.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 08:32 PM (1zxQh)

153 Nurse,
Luckily I am surrounded by State troopers when downtown at work. I need to look at an off body option but I'm picky

Posted by: lin-duh at May 05, 2024 08:34 PM (PZo5T)

154 A problem the Israelis have with being a true Second Amendment country is maybe 15% of the citizens are Arab, loyal right now, but who do you trust? Now, do we want to pass out firearms permits only to the Jewish (bad optics) or let everybody go for it. I would go with the latter as those with nefarious thoughts are already armed.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at May 05, 2024 08:34 PM (V5eKu)

155 I think the israelis were worried that lots of guns in the hands of civilians would end up in terrorsts hands. Remember that israel is a very integrated society. that being said, 100's of thousands of permits have been issued since 10/7.
When you see gun toting personnel, it is usually off duty military personnel. even back in the day when i was there,you could get on a bus and be squished up against a guy carrying an AR.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 05, 2024 08:35 PM (t/2Uw)

156 Since scopes were mentioned: Midway USA has Zeiss scopes on sale for 30+% off, with free shipping.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 08:35 PM (1zxQh)

157 Thanks pillage idiot, but they're just rabbits. Park up 20-30 yds downwind from the warren and wait 15mins until one pops out and stands still. Misses are embarrassing under those conditions.

Posted by: Nato at May 05, 2024 08:35 PM (ciuRb)

158 Trying to figure out holsters and on-body position for concealed carry seems almost harder than learning to shoot well. I think I finally have something that will work.

Posted by: Splunge at May 05, 2024 08:35 PM (oBPoz)

159 Mostly curious how organizations avoid letting their people get lazy.
Posted by: TRex at May 05, 2024 08:27 PM

IME, Gunnery Sergeants and Chief GMs can be quite motivating when it comes to avoiding any lassitude regarding weapons cleaning.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 08:36 PM (a3Q+t)

160 bill said what I was trying to say, only better.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 05, 2024 08:36 PM (t/2Uw)

161 There are at least two other companies making cigars with perique in the blend - Connecticut Valley Tobacconist, and the big Philippines tobacco company, Tabaclera Incorporada.
Posted by: rhomboid

Philippines tobacco?
That was an interesting sidebar. Went to their webpage and read up on it a bit... Wifey is filipina and she mentioned taking a tour of tobacco fields while in school there.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at May 05, 2024 08:36 PM (cOq4q)

162 BTW, Blaster, I trust you appreciate having the lovely SRA Blaster as part of your fire team.
A keeper for sure.

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 08:38 PM (wrDSd)

163 Hello gub threaders and all the ships at sea!

I am joining late because I was doing my second favorite thing (behind practicing fundamentals) which is running brake lines. Whooee is that fun!

But now it is dark. I have gub stuff to tell.

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 08:38 PM (IFNME)

164 *off body carry

Autocucumber strikes again

Posted by: nurse ratched at May 05, 2024 08:38 PM (1WD7A)

165 2 Random questions for those who carried/carry as LEO or military: Did/do you have a discipline for frequency of cleaning? If so, was it a best practice/something you learned or adopted or was it mandated for you?

Mostly curious how organizations avoid letting their people get lazy.
Posted by: TRex at May 05, 2024 08:27 PM (
Thorough cleaning after range, as needed normal climate/air quality. Bi-monthly inspection log.

Posted by: Eromero at May 05, 2024 08:39 PM (NxC5+)

166 Another bit, on buying ammo...
I finally set up my Ammo Squared account and am putting monthly amounts into buying various range ammo. It might cost a little bit more than other places, but I can put in small amounts of money and have it ship when I have enough in there. Sort of like an ammo mutual fund.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 08:39 PM (1zxQh)

167 Did/do you have a discipline for frequency of cleaning? If so, was it a best practice/something you learned or adopted or was it mandated for you?

Posted by: TRex at May 05, 2024 08:27 PM (IQ6Gq)

If I went to the range for the Army, everything that went to the range had to get cleaned before calling it a day. On deployment, I'd clean everything once a week or after every patrol. It's been nearly forty years, but I can still hear Sergeant Major Barton and Master Sergeant Mann saying, "Have you finished cleaning your weapon, Mister, or are you just shamming?"

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 08:40 PM (yRXSd)

168 It wasn’t till I was years out of the Army that I realized that people did not clean their weapons immediately after shooting them.

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 08:42 PM (wrDSd)

169 They blamed a lot of malfunctions on the M-16 for not properly cleaning until they figured out the main reasons.

Posted by: polynikes at May 05, 2024 08:43 PM (inGXk)

170 167 Second trip to WESPAC I landed in Iwakuni. First was further south. In Iwakuni, we had to go to the armory once weekly to give the M16 a good scrubbing and they enforced it.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at May 05, 2024 08:44 PM (V5eKu)

171 - I'd love to have my circa 1972 16.

Posted by: TeeJ at May 05, 2024 08:46 PM (xZpzx)

172 I clean most of my guns after range/shooting . The exception being my Hi Point carbines. I've yet to attempt to field strip them. Though I will run patches through the barrel and clean what I can spray.

Posted by: polynikes at May 05, 2024 08:48 PM (inGXk)

173 It wasn’t till I was years out of the Army that I realized that people did not clean their weapons immediately after shooting them.
Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 08:42 PM (wrDSd)

Being a medic at a battalion aid station, I had a lot of down-time. I became really good at disassembling, cleaning and reassembling my M-16. Of course we didn't always have our weapons, but when we did, I was like a machine.

Up till a few years ago, I could field strip it in my mind. But, alas, no longer. I would have to re-learn.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, Live from Missoula at May 05, 2024 08:48 PM (gPzkP)

174 I'd love to have my circa 1972 16.
Posted by: TeeJ at May 05, 2024 08:46 PM

Not me. I hated that the best I seemed to be able to do ~3 MOA. I didn't have enough knowledge to understand it was the barrel twist/load, and not me.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 08:49 PM (a3Q+t)

175 162 BTW, Blaster, I trust you appreciate having the lovely SRA Blaster as part of your fire team.
A keeper for sure.
Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 08:38 PM (wrDSd)

Lord yes! I do indeed!

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 08:49 PM (IFNME)

176 Posted by: polynikes at May 05, 2024 08:43 PM (inGXk)

The fact that US Army Ordinance didn't issue cleaning kits w/ the early batches of XM-16E1s sent to Nam didn't help either. Keep in mind that the cleaning rod and patches for the M14 wouldn't have worked in the XM-16E1.

The troops were also told that the XM-16E1 didn't need cleaning. Because the M-16 didn't go through development at Springfield, it used commercial spec ammo. It work fine with that. But Army, over both Colt and Eugene Stoner's objections, changed the ammo spec to ball powder vice the IMR previously used. Ball powder burned a lot dirtier than IMR. Combine that w/ a barrel and chamber that didn't have chrome lining, and the stage was set for a massive failure that would dog the M-16 for decades.

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 08:50 PM (yRXSd)

177 But now it is dark. I have gub stuff to tell.
Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 08:38 PM (IFNME)

Tell!
But not of brake lines.

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 08:50 PM (wrDSd)

178 I'd love to have my circa 1972 16.
Posted by: TeeJ at May 05, 2024 08:46 PM (xZpzx)

You can come awful close nowadays. Springfield (IIRC) has an A2 clone (semi-auto) with the solid stock. And, of course, you can build your own. Then make it better if you want.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 08:50 PM (1zxQh)

179 I'd love to have my circa 1972 16.
Posted by: TeeJ at May 05, 2024 08:46 PM (xZpzx)

Except for the giggle switch, my recent ARs are much better than my old M16A1 ever was. (Do miss that giggle switch, though!)

Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at May 05, 2024 08:50 PM (3rnQf)

180 Duncanthrax, for various reasons there won't be much range time soon, but for some of the same reasons there will be lots of bench time (or time, for bench time). So planning to fill the 45ACP can, then continue with the 30-06, then top up the 45 Colt and .380 and 38spl. The 30-06 brass processing (specifically inspection and gauging after resizing) will be suited for burning a cigar, so two vices can be pursued simultaneously.

Posted by: rhomboid at May 05, 2024 08:51 PM (GcNJ2)

181 Regarding practice, I think of a basketball camp 50 or so years ago with a good coach. He said "Practice Hard", don't lollygag to get the ball and shoot again, run and shoot fast. Try to simulate game conditions.
I think all practice should follow this idea, except maybe running in a range with a loaded gun. Frowned upon unless designed for it.

Posted by: jimmymcnulty at May 05, 2024 08:51 PM (p7HXU)

182 Up till a few years ago, I could field strip it in my mind. But, alas, no longer. I would have to re-learn.

I bet it would come back to you in literally minutes. It would be a fun experiment to find out.

Posted by: Oddbob at May 05, 2024 08:52 PM (/y8xj)

183 174 It was also a bunch of clowns twisting off the wire on C Rat cases with the tulip suppressor. Not good for keeping a barrel straight.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at May 05, 2024 08:53 PM (V5eKu)

184 Today I dedotted the last of my force dotted firearms.

A Ruger P95 got returned to iron sight duty. It was one that only would shoot 124 grain after the dot.

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 08:54 PM (IFNME)

185 I bet it would come back to you in literally minutes. It would be a fun experiment to find out.
Posted by: Oddbob at May 05, 2024 08:52 PM (/y8xj)

A competition at a MoMe? Blindfolded gun disassembly and re-assembly. With lots of spare springs for sale.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 08:54 PM (1zxQh)

186 Posted by: rhomboid at May 05, 2024 08:51 PM

Well, I, *for one*, appreciate the effort you've put into the backgrounds of the cigar pictures, making them even more thematically relevant. :-)

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 08:54 PM (a3Q+t)

187 Just acquired mucho ammo. It was a good day.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 05, 2024 08:55 PM (Wnv9h)

188 Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at May 05, 2024 08:53 PM (V5eKu)

Hah. The M-16 multi-tool

Posted by: polynikes at May 05, 2024 08:55 PM (inGXk)

189 Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 08:49 PM (a3Q+t)

The MILSPEC for rifle accuracy is 4 MOA for what's issued to GI Joe. So your rifle met the MILSPEC. The USMC never liked the M16A1 much for that reason. Thus, the USMC backed fielding of the M16A2 in the 1980s to meet the USMC's desire for a more inherently accurate and adjustable rifle.

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 08:55 PM (yRXSd)

190 Now that Blaster has finished fiddling with his brake lines and showed up to the gub thread, I can say "well done" and thanks for sharing your steel shooting story. Look forward to joining you at some point. Weasel doctrine demands it.

Posted by: TRex at May 05, 2024 08:55 PM (IQ6Gq)

191 A competition at a MoMe? Blindfolded gun disassembly and re-assembly.

Winner of each round has to do a shot before the next round.

Posted by: Oddbob at May 05, 2024 08:56 PM (/y8xj)

192 Good Sunday evening, gub 'ettes and 'rons, and a rousing hello to our host Weasel.

Way to go, Blaster and Sra Blaster! I had a similar experience my first time competing - wish I'd observed more before running the courses, but it was still fun and educational. I had two ammo failures in one run, which killed my score -- but I was able to perform a quick tap-rack recovery and continue without having to leave the course.

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy at May 05, 2024 08:57 PM (v23vE)

193 Winner of each round has to do a shot before the next round.
Posted by: Oddbob at May 05, 2024 08:56 PM (/y8xj)

So, like a steel match where you ring the last gong to set your time? Dis-assemble, re-assemble, put in one round and shoot the gong?

Or did you mean something less kinetic?

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 08:58 PM (1zxQh)

194 I think the XM-7s are now fielded by the 101st.

Posted by: polynikes at May 05, 2024 08:59 PM (inGXk)

195 Pug, as an aviator, my standard firearm was a .38 revolver. Not much re breaking down and cleaning.
But I one-upped them and became the Arms Room Officer. M60s, M16s, M79s, M203s. I got good at them.

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 08:59 PM (wrDSd)

196 Today at the DMV MGC event, I asked Hrothgar to bring his pistol bench rest so we could get our dots dialed in. sra blaster's P320 and my P226 Legion RXP.

We got them REALLY dialed in. It also teaches you just how crappy your fundamentals are because off the bench you can literally put the bullets through the same hole. Everything else is human error.

We also used it to dial in swa's new dot on her purple Glock. Spot on.

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 08:59 PM (IFNME)

197 take off the blindfold, put in one round and shoot the gong?

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 08:58 PM (1zxQh)

Missed an important step there.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 08:59 PM (1zxQh)

198 173 It wasn’t till I was years out of the Army that I realized that people did not clean their weapons immediately after shooting them.
Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 08:42 PM (wrDSd)

Being a medic at a battalion aid station, I had a lot of down-time. I became really good at disassembling, cleaning and reassembling my M-16. Of course we didn't always have our weapons, but when we did, I was like a machine.

Up till a few years ago, I could field strip it in my mind. But, alas, no longer. I would have to re-learn.
Posted by: Pug Mahon

I have a pretty relaxed cleaning regimen because quite frankly in civilian use, overcleaning is more dangerous to the barrel instead of not cleaning. I also haven't ever shot match type races which simply don't interest me in the slightest.
=
For the most part, a simple pull through type (I prefer Otis ripcord for long rifles) is fine for most firearms. A few need some special cleaning regimens every now and again (shooting soft cast bullets can require a Lewis Lead Removal toolset), if you persistently shoot 38 Special brass in a 357 Magnum chamber, you can get crud buildup in the cylinder throat that requires reaming every now and agin, etc.

Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 09:00 PM (peJ7P)

199 Posted by: jimmymcnulty at May 05, 2024 08:51 PM (p7HXU)

Sim-munitions. Allows you to do force-on-force training w/ weapons modified to take sim-munitions only. You do need serious eye/head protection and ideally body armor, because this stuff can break the skin at close ranges.

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 09:00 PM (yRXSd)

200 Or did you mean something less kinetic?

Yeah, I was thinking of a way of handicapping so guys like Eromero don't run away with it.

Posted by: Oddbob at May 05, 2024 09:00 PM (/y8xj)

201 ***Shoot at these targets while you are transiting from this point to this point.***
=========

Heads up, Braenyard is hobbling to the next one.

Posted by: Braenyard at May 05, 2024 09:01 PM (lCWOD)

202 I would like to point out the photos above were taken by TRex and/or Grateful who came out to cheer us on at our first event.

Also, on Wednesday we participated in our second event! We didn't finish dead last this time so I think that counts as improvement!

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 09:01 PM (IFNME)

203 RMBS, what did you get and from where?
I assume some 7.62 NATO.

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 09:02 PM (wrDSd)

204 Yeah, I was thinking of a way of handicapping so guys like Eromero don't run away with it.
Posted by: Oddbob at May 05, 2024 09:00 PM (/y8xj)

Then we make him leave the blindfold on for shooting the gong.

I have a feeling liquid shots won't slow him down much.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 09:02 PM (1zxQh)

205 Itinerant Alley Butcher, have not come across any mainstream premiums using Philippines tobacco (vague memory of one that has some filler from there). But of course Indonesia (Sumatra) is a big source.

Posted by: rhomboid at May 05, 2024 09:03 PM (GcNJ2)

206 56 My daughter competes in youth steel challenge. It's competitive, especially amongst the kids in Texas. She will be competing in Ohio for Nationals for the second year. Her times have improved substantially but it is extremely competitive. Some of the times that are being put up are incredible.
Posted by: lin-duh at May 05, 2024 07:31 PM (PZo5T)

Hi lin-duh! When your schedule firms up around the nationals in Ohio, please let me know (email in nick). As memory serves from our discussion in Corsicana last year, Spawn's competition wasn't too far from me, and I'd like to come and watch if such is permitted.

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy at May 05, 2024 09:04 PM (v23vE)

207 Heads up, Braenyard is hobbling to the next one.
Posted by: Braenyard at May 05, 2024 09:01 PM (lCWOD)

Hobbling is fine because it's movement. You stop, it's a penalty!

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 09:04 PM (IFNME)

208 lin-duh - the steel challenge that spawn is doing is a sanctioned series, right?

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 09:05 PM (IFNME)

209 - 86 out of 100 basic training record fire at Ft Ord. Last group of the day and it started drizzling when we started.
Not just best in my company but all 5 (6?) that had grad ceremony same day as ours.
For a kid that taught himself how to shoot from the directions that came with the Daisy 1894 Spittin Image he got for Christmas when he was 10. And never fired a real weapon before basic?
To me,,, that 16 was saaaweet.

Posted by: TeeJ at May 05, 2024 09:05 PM (xZpzx)

210 A speed-loader will keep your fingers from hurting. Essential for 9mms.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at May 05, 2024 09:05 PM (lhenN)

211 Just acquired mucho ammo. It was a good day.
***********
Ditto. The reserves are growing....

Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 09:06 PM (IQ6Gq)

212 Today at the DMV MGC we were joined by DaughterH (not a nic, just how Hrothgar's daughter is called). Like lin-duh, we are making multi-generational morons.

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 09:07 PM (IFNME)

213 Posted by: BourbonChicken at May 05, 2024 09:05 PM (lhenN)

I like Mag-Lula speed loaders.

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 09:07 PM (yRXSd)

214 Posted by: jimmymcnulty at May 05, 2024 08:51 PM (p7HXU)
---
Howdy and welcome!

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 09:08 PM (JwHpX)

215 Blaster, just doing a second match counts. I guarantee that you felt more comfortable this time.
There is quite a mental barrier to overcome the first time. It decreases every time, right?

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 09:08 PM (wrDSd)

216 Weasel and all, I'm going to sign off early tonight. This cold is still kicking my rear and I'm feeling the blahs.

Posted by: Ed L at May 05, 2024 09:08 PM (yRXSd)

217 Oh yeah another thousand rounds of 9mm arrived this week. That should keep us...for a little bit.

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 09:09 PM (IFNME)

218 Yeah, I was thinking of a way of handicapping so guys like Eromero don't run away with it.
Posted by: Oddbob at May 05, 2024 09:00 PM

Dunno about the cleaning part, but for the shooting part you can handicap Eromero by making him shoot something in .45 ACP instead of a Glock in a Euroweenie calibre.

;-)

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 09:09 PM (a3Q+t)

219 Thus, the USMC backed fielding of the M16A2 in the 1980s to meet the USMC's desire for a more inherently accurate and adjustable rifle.
Posted by: Ed L
--------
The M16 turned out to be a slightly longer range replacement for the M1 Carbine in its M2 format and some branches were not happy with that and longed for a battle rifle.

A 5.56 M16 is not such a rifle as as a result, the kludges were piled up. The A2 was not a bad rifle due to leaving the barrel length and gas system alone and arguably had better sights on it for match purposes. However, the older A1 battle sights were easy to dial in and much easier to service in bad conditions with fewer parts and less close tolerances.

Then we have the M4 variation that Colt took a risk upon by developing it and then selling to the military. I am not fond of the M4 kludge as it involves compromises with the gas system and then the use of overpressure heavy bullets took a toll on internal parts. Too many compromises were made when new cartridges that fit in the same AR frame would do better in lethality, range, and even in a short barrel and suppressed. Grendel, 6.8 Spc, and the 6mm ARC for example.

Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 09:09 PM (peJ7P)

220 200 Or did you mean something less kinetic?

Yeah, I was thinking of a way of handicapping so guys like Eromero don't run away with it.
Posted by: Oddbob at May 05, 2024 09:00 PM (/y8xj)
I don't like to drink around firearms. Do I go out to eat and have 1 drink while I'm armed? Sure, once in a blue moon. But cleaning guns and drinking is a big nope for me. With disassembly/cleaning I find my hands less sensitive and flexible. The old joints cause fingers to point every which way. Eyesight is another thing entirely. And don't even get me started on hearing. I have new hearing aids and all of a sudden people stopped whispering around me.

Posted by: Eromero at May 05, 2024 09:09 PM (NxC5+)

221 Adios, Ed L! Hope you feel better.

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 09:10 PM (JwHpX)

222 No problem hand loading Glock mags for me. Beretta mags are a bitch though especially the high capacity. The LuLa is a definite necessity.

Posted by: polynikes at May 05, 2024 09:10 PM (inGXk)

223 On the topic of optics, I am befuddled once again, why Vortex Optics (of which I am a huge fan), has chosen to *not* display at the NRA Annual Meeting, coming up soon in Dallas, TX.

Dollar for Dollar, and Pound for Pound, some of the best values in optics to be had.

But somebody in their C Suite or Marketing Department oughta be flogged.

Ire vented... wow, this was one HELL of a Content Packed Gun Thread! I'll be reading some of this, well into ONT hours.

It's not the same thing AS shooting practice, but it's the next best thing... being immersed in it, and surrounded by good, shooty people and shooty things!

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at May 05, 2024 09:10 PM (e6UQI)

224 There is quite a mental barrier to overcome the first time. It decreases every time, right?
Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 09:08 PM (wrDSd)

Absolutely. We both said of the second event "I felt comfortable with that."

I guess the point is if you try it and you don't do well, don't let that stop you from continuing.

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 09:10 PM (IFNME)

225 129 RancherBob!!!

Thank you so very much for inviting so many of us to your property year after year to eat, shoot and celebrate being together. It is just amazing you and Jennifer do this for us. Thank you.
Posted by: nurse ratched at May 05, 2024 08:15 PM (sFnTw)

What Nurse said!

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy at May 05, 2024 09:12 PM (v23vE)

226 The AR -10 would have made a fine battle rifle with a few tweaks.

Posted by: polynikes at May 05, 2024 09:13 PM (inGXk)

227 I have a pretty relaxed cleaning regimen because quite frankly in civilian use, overcleaning is more dangerous to the barrel instead of not cleaning.
**************
OK, newbie question: how often to clean a 9mm Sig?

Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 09:13 PM (IQ6Gq)

228 Ed L you were missed today. Hope you feel better soon.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 05, 2024 09:13 PM (t/2Uw)

229 Good evening, Whig. Nice to have your expertise here, as always.
I do like my bushmaster A3 with the 20” barrel.
It seems to get the most out of 55 grain and lower pellets. Removeable carry handle so scopes etc can go on. But even these old Mark 1 eyeballs can still use the iron sights effectively.

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 09:15 PM (wrDSd)

230 I don't like to drink around firearms. Do I go out to eat and have 1 drink while I'm armed? Sure, once in a blue moon. But cleaning guns and drinking is a big nope for me. With disassembly/cleaning I find my hands less sensitive and flexible. The old joints cause fingers to point every which way. Eyesight is another thing entirely. And don't even get me started on hearing. I have new hearing aids and all of a sudden people stopped whispering around me.
Posted by: Eromero

Agreed, firearms and reloading plus alcohol don't mix well. I never really shot as a social occasion and I sure as heck don't view reloading that way. Back in the day when I was instructing someone, I was generally watching them solely and keeping my eyes peeled on public ranges for other shooters on the range.

Never was one to multitask very well and used to do something similar when I played golf before I took up shooting. I reload in silence too away from phones, noise, and distractions.

Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 09:15 PM (peJ7P)

231 OK, newbie question: how often to clean a 9mm Sig?
Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 09:13 PM

How much/how often do you shoot it? Do you carry it? If so, pocket/IWB/OWB? Does it spend time in dirty environments? Do you shoot dirty ammo (looking at you, Winchester)?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 09:16 PM (a3Q+t)

232 Upthread the question about optics - I am a terrible person to ask because I believe in cheap optics. I am not saying that expensive optics aren't good - they are. But I buy cheap dots and cheap glass and they work for me.

THOUGH - I see the point in paying more sometimes. I do have a moderately spendy Vortex LPVO on an AR. But I have a "CVLIFE 2.5-10x40e Red & Green Illuminated Scope with 20mm Mount" (what it says on Amazon) which also includes a laser. And that thing costs all of $50. That sits on sra blaster's Mossberg Patrol rifle and it does well in that role. It's way better than nothing.

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 09:17 PM (IFNME)

233 Been around firearms for quite some time but every Sunday evening I'm amazed at how much I have either forgotten or didn't know to begin with. Thank you Weasel for gathering this fine crew together each weak. Much appreciated, amigo.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at May 05, 2024 09:18 PM (mH6SG)

234 How much/how often do you shoot it? Do you carry it? If so, pocket/IWB/OWB? Does it spend time in dirty environments? Do you shoot dirty ammo (looking at you, Winchester)?
************
Shoot twice a week, around 100 rounds per shoot, so 200/week. No CC yet. No dirty ammo

Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 09:19 PM (IQ6Gq)

235 Durability is my main criteria for optics.

Posted by: polynikes at May 05, 2024 09:19 PM (inGXk)

236 Jim SND, what a great thread. I have a ton of Vortex and am happy. Nice midrange scope. 22 up through .308. Happy with an Arken, as well. Wish I’d bought several when they were having a great sale a year or so ago.

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 09:19 PM (wrDSd)

237 RMBS, what did you get and from where?
I assume some 7.62 NATO.
Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 09:02 PM

Got some 5.56. I was running low.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 05, 2024 09:21 PM (Wnv9h)

238 OK, all y'all! 9:21 thank you time!

Thank you!

Appreciate all of you being here tonight and hope to see you next Sunday!

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 09:21 PM (JwHpX)

239 I will say it again, if you aren't participating in some sort of club level competitive shooting event, you are missing an inexpensive and fun way to very quickly up your game.

There is iron in weasel's words. Our range charges $25 for members ($30 for non members) to compete. Add the cost of ammo - frangible is roughly double the cost (paid $240 for 500 rounds) and you are going to shoot 60-100 rounds in an event. Cheaper than a round of golf most places!

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 09:21 PM (IFNME)

240 The Civil Defense video ("Shelter On A Quiet Street") talked about how it used to be important for everyone to be within X minutes of a fallout shelter, in case them sneaky Russkies nuked us. Not to veer into the forbidden political swamp too very far, but as I understand it, that's Israel today. Every house and building has a safe room in case of incoming missiles or other threat.

I would very much not want to live like that.

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy at May 05, 2024 09:21 PM (v23vE)

241 Shoot twice a week, around 100 rounds per shoot, so 200/week. No CC yet. No dirty ammo
Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 09:19 PM (IQ6Gq)

My take is all range ammo is dirty. Just some are dirtier than others.

Posted by: polynikes at May 05, 2024 09:22 PM (inGXk)

242 I've found you get the biggest bang per buck at the interfaces. On a computer, that's the monitor/display and the keyboard. On a stereo, that's the cartridge and speakers.

On a firearm, the sights, trigger, and stock or grips. Many firearms today are head and shoulders above what was available even a few years ago.

The Ruger American II is an example. Put a very good scope on it, a Timney trigger, and you're pretty much good to go.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 09:22 PM (a3Q+t)

243 FWIW some ammo is really dirty. In my experience with Armscor .22 I could honestly clean after 50 rounds. Nasty shit. Cheap, but filthy.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at May 05, 2024 09:23 PM (Q4IgG)

244 229 Good evening, Whig. Nice to have your expertise here, as always.
I do like my bushmaster A3 with the 20” barrel.
It seems to get the most out of 55 grain and lower pellets. Removeable carry handle so scopes etc can go on. But even these old Mark 1 eyeballs can still use the iron sights effectively.
Posted by: RI Red
=======
I warmed more to the AR platform when I started building them during the Obama years than my time with them in the service. At that time, I preferred bolt guns and lever/slide types instead of semi/full auto. I also preferred revolvers over semi autos then.

I like the AR more in the 7.62x39, 6.8 SPC, or the 6.5 Grendel (don't have nor want to build an 6mm ARC) cartridges even with some of the quirks in magazines and bolts that one has to suffer with.

Personally, I like the 55gr and the rifle length gas system in the AR 5.56 package just fine. I am not going to clear houses nor engage in CQB so a longer barrel suits me just fine.

I did go to an 18 inch in an AR 10 though as it was a good compromise between weight and getting the most out of a 7.62x51 package with less muzzle blast than a 16 inch.

Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 09:23 PM (peJ7P)

245 Duncanthrax, swa was reading a book earlier this week where someone was shot with a .41 caliber bullet. She was wondering about it. Do you have any information or opinions about such a thing?

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 09:24 PM (IFNME)

246 OK, let's assume the Blazer is dirty ammo. Can someone give me a rough estimate of how many rounds between cleanings?

Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 09:25 PM (IQ6Gq)

247 The A2 was not a bad rifle due to leaving the barrel length and gas system alone and arguably had better sights on it for match purposes. However, the older A1 battle sights were easy to dial in and much easier to service in bad conditions with fewer parts and less close tolerances.
Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 09:09 PM (peJ7P)

Concur. The A2 sights are excellent on a KD range and the A1 sights are no slouch either. I like both but the A1 is simple 300 yards and in and your good to go like an AKM's battle sight setting. Simple and it works well just know where your hold is. 400 to 600 yards the A2 shines.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at May 05, 2024 09:27 PM (R/m4+)

248 246 OK, let's assume the Blazer is dirty ammo. Can someone give me a rough estimate of how many rounds between cleanings?
Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 09:25 PM (IQ6Gq)

Some people are going to disagree but I am going to say 500.

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 09:27 PM (IFNME)

249 243 FWIW some ammo is really dirty. In my experience with Armscor .22 I could honestly clean after 50 rounds. Nasty shit. Cheap, but filthy.
Posted by: Martini Farmer

Remington Thunderbolt is similar but ironically, for whatever reason, if you have a 22 LR that doesn't shoot well--give ole Thunderbolt a try.

Older worn (but not pitted) 22 LRs also seem to like Thunderbolt. I hate it from a cleaning standpoint but it can do pretty well in the accuracy department when other supposedly better ammo don't get it done.

Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 09:28 PM (peJ7P)

250 Wow. Big blow out here.

Power flickering. Have fun y'all! Yeehaw!

Posted by: nurse ratched at May 05, 2024 09:28 PM (s3lC5)

251 - Yeah, I gotta say it too.

The techy knowledge that floats around here just blows me away.
Only place I've ever been around it.
The good Lord blessed me with great eyesight (up until 40 or so), really good hands and coordination between the two.
Beyond that...?

Posted by: TeeJ at May 05, 2024 09:28 PM (xZpzx)

252 Shoot twice a week, around 100 rounds per shoot, so 200/week. No CC yet. No dirty ammo
Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 09:19 PM

Given that, I'd (YMMV) probably clean it every 2 weeks or so. If it wasn't particularly dirty, AND (most importantly) the lubrication looked good, I might stretch it out to 3 weeks.

I guess, thinking about it, as a general heuristic for pistols, once every 300 to 500 rounds, or once a year, whichever occurs first.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 09:28 PM (a3Q+t)

253 Thank you Blaster. We just settled on 400-500, so your confirmation is appreciated. Was just concerned after someone above said cleaning it too often was not good.

Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 09:28 PM (IQ6Gq)

254 we are making multi-generational morons.
Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 09:07 PM (IFNME)

LOL. Only at AoS is that not considered a bad thing.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 09:29 PM (1zxQh)

255 245 Duncanthrax, swa was reading a book earlier this week where someone was shot with a .41 caliber bullet. She was wondering about it. Do you have any information or opinions about such a thing?
Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 09:24 PM (IFNME)
Oh my goodness. Now you've done it.

Posted by: Eromero at May 05, 2024 09:29 PM (NxC5+)

256 Thanks Duncanthrax, that is helpful information.

Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 09:29 PM (IQ6Gq)

257 Thanxs for it all Weasel!
Good night.

Posted by: Diogenes at May 05, 2024 09:30 PM (W/lyH)

258 Thanks Weasel and horde. Enjoyed it as usual. See you all next week.

Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 09:31 PM (IQ6Gq)

259 Oh, since my truck is gun adjacent (many times), the brake line run was successful - at least in terms of my goal for today. Replacing all the forward lines, 2 ea from the booster to the abs pump, 2 ea from the abs pump to the front brakes. 3 of those 4 are complete - the longest one with the most twisted path was what ran this evening. I had tried and failed to get it in place Friday, and then it's been raining since.

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 09:31 PM (IFNME)

260 Good night all.
thanks Weasel for all you do week after week.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 05, 2024 09:31 PM (t/2Uw)

261 On the topic of optics, I am befuddled once again, why Vortex Optics (of which I am a huge fan), has chosen to *not* display at the NRA Annual Meeting, coming up soon in Dallas, TX.

Hey, speaking of which, are y'all going to be there with press credentials this year?

Posted by: Oddbob at May 05, 2024 09:33 PM (/y8xj)

262 Thank you all for the assessment.
I will be cleaning thoroughly tonight and then considering my options.

Posted by: Chappyman66 at May 05, 2024 09:35 PM (L3byd)

263 246 OK, let's assume the Blazer is dirty ammo. Can someone give me a rough estimate of how many rounds between cleanings?
Posted by: Grateful
======
Assuming that you do not have a leading problem in your barrel, in a semi auto, I would probably run some type of bore cleaner about what Blaster estimated 500 rds or so. A foaming bore cleaner can work quite well with a number of removal of crud techniques.

Bore snakes can work, especially in handguns, but in a long barrel, you must make sure to put both cleaner and lube on it in the appropriate places and discard them when worn. Otis ripcord is a better bore snake type because inside is a steel cable unlike to break unlike fabric.

One could do pretty well with Otis battle rifle and handgun kits for pull through cleaning. Compact and not likely to damage a barrel crown like rods can.

The worst, aside from boresnakes, for cleaning are the articulated rod assembly kits which theoretically should be used only in the field. Better off not buying those cheap ass kits in the first place compared with even a boresnake.

Solid rods with bore or breech guides can be good especially if you have to do heavy duty cleaning.

Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 09:37 PM (peJ7P)

264 Thanks, again, Weasel, for the Gun Thread.
Thanks to everyone else for being the best folks on the intertubes AND being great folks as concerns guns.

See y'all next week. And I'm looking forward to the MoMe.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 09:38 PM (1zxQh)

265 Hope not too late. Had a so-so day at range - tried new grip. No improvement.

Busy tonight prepping for tomorrow - first day at new job with a seven day orientation.

Posted by: Iris, Team Hedgehog at May 05, 2024 09:40 PM (n3DL0)

266 Duncanthrax, swa was reading a book earlier this week where someone was shot with a .41 caliber bullet. She was wondering about it. Do you have any information or opinions about such a thing?
Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 09:24 PM

A .41 Magnum, or something like an old .41 Colt?

The design intent behind the .41 Mag was as a police weapon that would be better than the .357 Mag (which has an excellent record). There were (supposed to be) two loadings, a true magnum load (~1300-1400 fps), and a 'police' load around 900 fps. IIRC, there were ~4 police agencies that adopted the .41 Mag (all S&W M58, I believe), and the majority adopted the magnum load. Even the one or two that adopted the police load had issues with personnel (particularly women) being able to effectively use it (i.e. qualify). The introduction of double stack 9mm pistols about that time pretty much ended revolver usage among police, particularly after Gaston's product hit the scene.

The .41 Magnum is a fine load for hunting. For defense, a downloaded cartridge is excellent.

There is a .41 AE (Action Express), which can be fired in a (rebarreled) 9mm pistol. It's pretty much disappeared.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 09:41 PM (a3Q+t)

267 Thanks horde. Thanks Weasel. I learned stuff.

Posted by: TRex at May 05, 2024 09:41 PM (IQ6Gq)

268 Concur. The A2 sights are excellent on a KD range and the A1 sights are no slouch either. I like both but the A1 is simple 300 yards and in and your good to go like an AKM's battle sight setting. Simple and it works well just know where your hold is. 400 to 600 yards the A2 shines.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy
=======
I don't care to shoot 400-600 and especially with a 5.56x45 with a 55 gr bullet. Kind of like shooting a 22 LR at 100 yards. At that distance, I prefer a bolt gun in an appropriate cartridge such as any of the grand old battle rifle cartridges used in WWI and WWII. Personally, I like the good ole 30-06 and the British 303 for that kind of shooting although the 6.5 Swede is probably more to my limited recoil tolerance nowadays.

Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 09:42 PM (peJ7P)

269 Posted by: Iris, Team Hedgehog at May 05, 2024 09:40 PM (n3DL0)
----
Focus on the next range trip, and good luck this week!

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 09:42 PM (JwHpX)

270 Thanks Whig, you've provided alot of info to investigate. And investigate we will.

Good luck tomorrow Iris, hope it all goes well!

Posted by: Grateful at May 05, 2024 09:43 PM (IQ6Gq)

271 A scope suggestion for naftali that I just ran into 'net searching for ar-10

https://tinyurl.com/3eku8yw6

Posted by: andycanuck (UfUdn) at May 05, 2024 09:43 PM (UfUdn)

272 Busy tonight prepping for tomorrow - first day at new job with a seven day orientation.

Posted by: Iris, Team Hedgehog at May 05, 2024 09:40 PM

Congrats on the new job!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 09:44 PM (HlyYF)

273 I'm somewhat disappointed that I didn't see a pinata for cinco de cinco filled with ammo. Swing away, morons!

Cornhole is for the younger generations.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at May 05, 2024 09:44 PM (pDQ/8)

274 265 Hope not too late. Had a so-so day at range - tried new grip. No improvement.
Posted by: Iris, Team Hedgehog
------
Good luck, learning an altered grip can definitely affect accuracy and speed until you get used to it.

Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 09:45 PM (peJ7P)

275 272 Busy tonight prepping for tomorrow - first day at new job with a seven day orientation.

Posted by: Iris, Team Hedgehog at May 05, 2024 09:40 PM
Be sure to get a key to the executive washroom and locate the snack/coffee area.

Posted by: Eromero at May 05, 2024 09:47 PM (NxC5+)

276 Thx, Weasel. Always good.
Looking forward to shooting later this year.
Good night, gubbies.

Posted by: RI Red at May 05, 2024 09:49 PM (O4dz1)

277 Busy tonight prepping for tomorrow - first day at new job with a seven day orientation.

Best of luck. I'm sure you'll do just fine.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at May 05, 2024 09:50 PM (mH6SG)

278 I guess we are closing up shop early here.

Night all. Tango much, weasel.

Good thread as always.

Posted by: blaster at May 05, 2024 09:50 PM (IFNME)

279 Thanks for a great gub thread, Weasel. Punchin' out.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 05, 2024 09:51 PM (Wnv9h)

280 270 Thanks Whig, you've provided alot of info to investigate. And investigate we will.

Good luck tomorrow Iris, hope it all goes well!
Posted by: Grateful
=======
The gray box limits responses but basically, handguns can be fairly easily cleaned with something simple like a boresnake. I rarely use cleaning rods when cleaning a handgun unless I am firing cast lead bullets that can be a bit dirty. Handguns have much shorter barrels usually and much less chance of sticking parts of a broken boresnake in the barrel or cylinder (if a revolver).

Bolt Action, lever action, and single shot rifles, I use a pull through unless I have an old pitted barrel antique that accumulated lead/copper fouling because the bore is rough from age and treatment. Most modern rifles that are well kept do not have that problem.

ARs and other semi automatic rifles are a special class of cleaning and are often easiest to clean when the rifle is broken down in the subcomponents for cleaning.

Rimfire rifles are another special category and cleaning them depends on the complexity of the handgun/rifle on disassembly and how dirty is the ammo fired in them.

Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 09:51 PM (peJ7P)

281 Busy tonight prepping for tomorrow - first day at new job with a seven day orientation.

Posted by: Iris, Team Hedgehog at May 05, 2024 09:40 PM
----
I suggest a first day strategy of announcing a list of demands for your employer. Helps level-set expectations.

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 09:51 PM (JwHpX)

282 Food Thread is at 248, so we've saved Weasel's job for another week.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 09:52 PM (a3Q+t)

283 Listening to Little Kawai by Walter Becker. Teachy.

Posted by: Eromero at May 05, 2024 09:53 PM (NxC5+)

284 ...ey, speaking of which, are y'all going to be there with press credentials this year? Posted by: Oddbob at May 05, 2024 09:33 PM (/y8xj)

Even though Dallas is but a fraction of the distance that Indianapolis was, last year, alas, no. I'm barely managing enough time to do a "drive by" kind of visit to the show, much less any of the backstory goings on.

I'll strive to do better for Atlanta, next year. And if I can't go, I'll do my best to ensure that Weasel has his Press Badges. (....he don' need no steenkeeing BADGES!)

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at May 05, 2024 09:54 PM (e6UQI)

285 A belated thanks to you Weasel for hosting. Wish all a good night and thanks to those like Blaster that provide content from week to week.

I would thank Rhomboid but allergic to tobacco so never a cigar aficionado-by the time I smell burning tobacco, I rapidly lose any ability to smell as my nose closes up.

Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 09:54 PM (peJ7P)

286 I suggest a first day strategy of announcing a list of demands for your employer. Helps level-set expectations.
Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 09:51 PM

Works for us!

Posted by: Hamas College Rallies-R-Us, LLC at May 05, 2024 09:54 PM (a3Q+t)

287 282 Food Thread is at 248, so we've saved Weasel's job for another week.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 05, 2024 09:52 PM

Too bad we are going to lose CBD. I liked that guy too!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at May 05, 2024 09:55 PM (HlyYF)

288 265 Hope not too late. Had a so-so day at range - tried new grip. No improvement.

Busy tonight prepping for tomorrow - first day at new job with a seven day orientation.
Posted by: Iris, Team Hedgehog at May 05, 2024 09:40 PM (n3DL0)

Congrats on the new gig, ma'am!

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy at May 05, 2024 09:55 PM (v23vE)

289 - Thanks Weasel!

Whig, I pretty much mirror that on the distance stuff.
Though not as far on the semis being as how mine, cheap junk.

Posted by: TeeJ at May 05, 2024 09:56 PM (xZpzx)

290 It's also not a bad idea to get a provisional workers comp claim on the books during the first day or so.

Posted by: Weasel at May 05, 2024 09:58 PM (JwHpX)

291 Hmm, May.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 05, 2024 09:59 PM (IG4Id)

292 Thanks all!

Will keep trying at range; and of course, there's always the option of a new gun!

Posted by: Iris, Team Hedgehog at May 05, 2024 10:00 PM (n3DL0)

293 What's the worst that could happen?

A woman has been spotted endangering her young child at Estes Park, Colorado, by leading the youngster right up to a napping bull elk. The tourist is so preoccupied with trying to photograph the snoozing animal, she seems unaware of the risk to her youngster, who crouches on the ground about two feet from the powerful animal.

-
After all, elk are just big squirrels.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at May 05, 2024 10:00 PM (L/fGl)

294 Whig, I pretty much mirror that on the distance stuff.
Though not as far on the semis being as how mine, cheap junk.
Posted by: TeeJ
=======
If I lived back where I could shoot at long distances, I might play around with it. But I live in woodlands and hills, not much reason to practice beyond 300 or so.

Beyond 300 is also around where iron sights start becoming a problem with old eyes and I prefer low power scopes if I have to have one on a rifle.

Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 10:00 PM (peJ7P)

295 Teej,
Right now, I am just trying to get healthwise so I can shoot even at an indoor range.

Inflammatory arthritis and its complications have laid me low unless I guess I drink Grannie's Rheumatism Medicine (aka moonshine) to get rid of the pain.

Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 10:02 PM (peJ7P)

296 no nood yet?

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 10:05 PM (1zxQh)

297 After all, elk are just big squirrels.

Yep. An 800-pound squirrel with a helmet made of spear points.

Posted by: Oddbob at May 05, 2024 10:05 PM (/y8xj)

298 293 What's the worst that could happen?

A woman has been spotted endangering her young child at Estes Park, Colorado, by leading the youngster right up to a napping bull elk. The tourist is so preoccupied with trying to photograph the snoozing animal, she seems unaware of the risk to her youngster, who crouches on the ground about two feet from the powerful animal.

-
After all, elk are just big squirrels.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks

I was in Canada years ago and saw grizzlies across a field where the wood had been cut and removed. Probably at about 500-600 yards away on a mountainside. We watched the couple of bears cavort from afar but I and my mates were sure not going to get up close for a selfie with them. We stuck right by the van and got some pix.

That is what telephoto lenses are for.

Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 10:06 PM (peJ7P)

299 After all, elk are just big squirrels.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at May 05, 2024 10:00 PM (L/fGl)

big, giant skwerls with unnecessarily hard feet and growing antlers.

My gawd, people are fucking stupid.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, Live from Missoula at May 05, 2024 10:06 PM (gPzkP)

300 Gub thread overtime!

Posted by: TRex at May 05, 2024 10:06 PM (IQ6Gq)

301 And TRex pushes us to 300!

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 10:09 PM (1zxQh)

302 Iron sights period can be a problem for me any more.
Farm country here so woodlines, small sections of woods, pasture and grain fields mixed into the rolling hills.
The ground I hunt, 150yds would likely be the longest I could take.
Works out nice. Dial in a skoosh over 1.5 high at 100 and point blank out to 200.

Posted by: TeeJ at May 05, 2024 10:10 PM (xZpzx)

303 When a .50 isn’t enough, try this….

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n6fdjLLZE1w

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at May 05, 2024 10:10 PM (VNX3d)

304 Now I'm worried for whomever is doing the Sunday ONT.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 10:10 PM (1zxQh)

305 Some years ago we were in Yellowstone and we saw a big boar grizzly standing upright on the side of the road. We pulled over to see if we could get a good photo, safely!. Wife darts out of the car.

WTF!

Good news, wife is safe and sound.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, Live from Missoula at May 05, 2024 10:10 PM (gPzkP)

306 Hope you are doing well GWB.

Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 10:10 PM (peJ7P)

307 sight alignment
trigger control
good night everybody!

Posted by: Hokey Pokey at May 05, 2024 10:12 PM (as3uC)

308 Hope you are doing well GWB.
Posted by: whig at May 05, 2024 10:10 PM (peJ7P)

Better than I was. Hoping to get some range time in very soon. I have to work on those fundamentals.

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 10:13 PM (1zxQh)

309 good caliber

Posted by: Hokey Pokey at May 05, 2024 10:13 PM (as3uC)

310 I see. Got carried away around here with yinz boom sticks and shot the ONT. Shameful.

Posted by: Puddleglum, drive by pew pew at May 05, 2024 10:13 PM (sAmhv)

311 Nood now!

Posted by: GWB at May 05, 2024 10:13 PM (1zxQh)

312 missed it by that much

Posted by: Hokey Pokey at May 05, 2024 10:14 PM (as3uC)

313 NOOOD!

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar (hOUT3) ~ This year in Corsicana - again! ~ at May 05, 2024 10:15 PM (hOUT3)

314 - @295 - Whig

Glad you let me know. Whether you like it or not, you just made the prayer list. The best part, the widow I mentioned will put you on hers too. 😃

Posted by: TeeJ at May 05, 2024 10:15 PM (xZpzx)

315 nood ONT
centre

Posted by: andycanuck (UfUdn) at May 05, 2024 10:16 PM (UfUdn)

316 The Civil Defense video ("Shelter On A Quiet Street") talked about how it used to be important for everyone to be within X minutes of a fallout shelter, in case them sneaky Russkies nuked us. Not to veer into the forbidden political swamp too very far, but as I understand it, that's Israel today. Every house and building has a safe room in case of incoming missiles or other threat.

I would very much not want to live like that.
Posted by: Schnorflepuppy

==============

Back in the early 80's Civil Defense still had free training and certification. Did it for shits and gigles.
It was all very crude... basically crawl into a hole if you got nothing else.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at May 05, 2024 10:22 PM (cOq4q)

317 303 When a .50 isn’t enough, try this….

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n6fdjLLZE1w

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at May 05, 2024 10:10 PM

Can we give the janitors at Columbia U one of those?

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