Overnight Open Thread - 03/26/2024<br><i>[Roger Ball]</i>

Overnight Open Thread - 03/26/2024
[Roger Ball]

Greetings, Masterful Horde. You can probably guess where this is going from the banner picture. Amblin Entertainment “Masters of the Air” finished its nine-episode run a week and a half ago. If you watched it, you have already formed your opinions. I look forward to the comments. I went to the BBC review for Caryn James’ comments on the series because the Brits were 100% invested in that theater of the war and they typically have different views from our…uh…media.

With dozens of other planes falling from the sky and one of their own engines on fire, a fighter plane's co-pilot thinks it is time to parachute out. The pilot, Major Gale "Buck" Cleven (Austin Butler) grabs him by the arm and yells, "We're going to sit here and take it! You hear me? We're going to sit here and take it!"

Wow. That sounds like a line inserted for dramatic effect, eh? But it’s an actual quote recorded from an airman’s account.

That scene reveals what is gripping and also what is creaky in the much-hyped series produced by Steven Spielberg and Tom Hanks. Masters of the Air is a big old-fashioned war drama, glossed up with dazzling special effects and stocked with some of today's hottest young actors. It is also full of the kind of earnest, clunky dialogue and swaggering heroes familiar from classic war movies going back to the 1940s.

If you haven’t watched it and you have any interest in history, you might consider a binge watch party. You could have some adult beverages and Lucky Strikes handy so you can get the full smell and flavor of the O’ Club and pub scenes. Or, if your time is more valuable (which I hope is the case), you can read good recaps of all of the episodes at Vulture.
Even better, as is typically the case, read or listen to the book by Donald L Miller, Masters of the Air: America's Bomber Boys Who Fought the Air War Against Nazi Germany

It is a dense, intense read that takes advantage of the impossibly huge amount of official records, diaries and books about the largest air war that history will ever see. I will give a hat tip to screen writer John Orloff attempting to create a coherent screen play series from a battle space that covered hundreds of thousands of cubic miles, machines, and people. I don’t think it’s a masterpiece or rises to the level of his two episodes of Band of Brothers, but it’s very good.

Full disclosure: the B-17 and the P-51 were my favorite aircraft since memory serves. I think that was typical for kids of my generation. My dad was a 20th AD division staff vet, my mom was a truck driver for the Civil Defense corps. World War 2 history and stories figured heavily in my early years. Movies, books, models, TV shows were always in mind. Heck, I even still remember the theme song for the TV series 12 O’clock high. My bookshelves have many books about the WW2 air war. This Robert Taylor print is over my desk.

Ok, I’ll admit, it’s a sickness.

I think Orloff , the directors and producers did a credible job of taking a very small slice of Miller’s book and turning it into a somewhat coherent TV production. I think the CGI quality is generally good. The scenes inside the B-17s are thoughtfully staged and well produced. The sounds are mostly good with some exceptions. The R-1820s on the B-17 had a very distinct sound and occasionally the show sounds more like RC models. The battle scenes are effective and, of course, gruesome. But as bad as the show makes it look, you can rest assured it was much worse. One thing I did not have an adequate appreciation of was the huge number of cases of frostbite that took many crewmen out of the war. Like I said, read the book.

The series was well researched but there are inevitable inaccuracies that geeks like me like to point out. The WWII US Bombers You Tube channel does a fair job of reviewing various portions of the series and offers some excellent historical research to back up his analysis of the writing. The narrator’s voice is a little annoying, but the research is sound. Here’s an example:

There are many more videos analyzing the series so have at it. If you find a good one, please link it in the comments.

Before I got up close to a B-17 I held the common perception that it was a big airplane. It isn’t. In fact, a fully loaded B-17 at 60,000 pounds is still 20,000 pounds less than a fully loaded tractor trailer. I was shocked by how cramped the airplane was. The cabin is very narrow and ergonomically awkward. The radio room is the only reasonably proportioned place on the airplane.

The aluminum skin seems impossibly thin, yet the overall construction enabled the airplane to absorb an incredible amount of damage and remain airborne. “All American” provides a classic picture after surviving a midair collision with an Bf-109.

The collision had torn a huge hole in the rear of the fuselage. The left horizontal stabilizer was gone. Shivering from the impact, the badly damaged tail section looked like it could go at any moment…A quick head count of the stunned crew revealed that, amazingly, nobody had been hurt... Every little lurch and vibration threatened to shake the tail loose. But it managed to hold itself together, thanks to the rugged design of the B-17 and the delicate flying of the pilot, Kenny Bragg.

Part of the luck that day was that the German fighter was a Bf-109, the smaller of the single seat fighters. A collision with a bigger Bf-110 or FW-190 probably would not have ended similarly. All American made it all the way back to its home base in Algeria and, amazingly, was repaired to flying condition as a squadron “hack”, or utility airplane. It never flew in combat after that but survived until it was finally scrapped in March 1945.

There are precious few B-17s remaining in airworthy condition. Between crashes and Air Worthiness Directives, there ever fewer. There are a few still on the airshow and ride circuit, one being the beautifully restored Sentimental Journey, maintained by the Arizona Wing of the Commemorative Air Force.

If you have the opportunity to see one up close, or even better, make a donation and take the walk-through tour, you should. Taking a ride, of course, is the ultimate experience but they are pricey. On the other hand, I guarantee it will be memorable and worth it.

I have dedicated this ONT to this subject because, as I watched the series and read the book, I considered our current national condition. The idea of a “national mobilization” is a term that very few westerners can even comprehend now. And, in our current cultural state, I believe a national mobilization, like that accomplished in WW2, would be impossible. Our culture and industrial base have withered to the point where the US often seems to be a second world nation with distinct areas that easily qualify as third world sh!t holes. The purpose of studying war should not be the celebration of the endeavor, as I think war is an abomination. The “winner” is only the participant that loses the least and is still standing. And, we should admit, WW2 is the last war that the United States and our allies clearly won. Even worse, our government now arguably makes us the bad guys and recklessly squanders our blood and treasure. This cannot go on. “Just my opinion. I could be wrong” [Dennis Miller] Again, hit comments, Horde. Thank you for participating!

Posted by: Open Blogger at 10:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Evening.

Posted by: Robert at March 26, 2024 10:00 PM (xt2dn)

2 Howdy

Posted by: Duke Lowell at March 26, 2024 10:00 PM (u73oe)

3 A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. G. Gordon Liddy

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar (hOUT3) ~ This year in Corsicana - again! ~ at March 26, 2024 10:00 PM (hOUT3)

4 some

Posted by: Ciampino - Putting the turd in turducken at March 26, 2024 10:00 PM (qfLjt)

5 Good evening everyone.

Posted by: Tonypete at March 26, 2024 10:00 PM (WXNFJ)

6 Good news, everyone!

McDonald's is going to start selling Krispy Kreme doughnuts!

Posted by: Robert at March 26, 2024 10:01 PM (xt2dn)

7 First!

Posted by: BillyD at March 26, 2024 10:01 PM (F6Xpw)

8 Damnit!

Posted by: BillyD at March 26, 2024 10:01 PM (F6Xpw)

9 The US makes none of its own antibiotics, in part due to dumping by China in the 90's.
Oh, and we make very little steel.

Posted by: Kindltot at March 26, 2024 10:03 PM (D7oie)

10 Only Tuesday ??? Feels like Thursday...

Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:04 PM (V13WU)

11 A recent PBS Frontline program, in mournful tones, targeted FAA and Boeing for crashes that killed 346. Many scenes showing families of victims.

I'm waiting for a PBS program that investigates three times that number of deaths each year caused by illegal aliens. Or the hundred thousand deaths due to drugs carried across our open border.

Laken Riley. Kate Steinle. List. Goes. On.

Posted by: JM in Ill -- Behold the Manchurian Candidate at March 26, 2024 10:04 PM (MCZpF)

12 I watched Masters of the Air, BTW. It did not suck!

Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:05 PM (V13WU)

13 Top. Men.

Posted by: Deplorable Minion at March 26, 2024 10:05 PM (fntvd)

14 Where is this Masters of the Air..uh...airing?

Posted by: AlaBAMA at March 26, 2024 10:06 PM (rJ7Hd)

15 B-17 and Corsair were my favorite warbirds. Too bad the Corsair was almost exclusively fighting in the Pacific.

Posted by: Rex B at March 26, 2024 10:06 PM (hryr8)

16 Read the book. Haven't watched the series.

Posted by: Tuna at March 26, 2024 10:06 PM (oaGWv)

17 Good evening horde. Strapped in and prepared for these comments to take off...

Posted by: TRex at March 26, 2024 10:06 PM (IQ6Gq)

18 IIRC, the USA has not actually won a war since the "Department of War" was renamed the more ambiguous "Department of Defense"!

And "War Contractors" sounds so much harsher than the more genteel term "Defense Contractors"...

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar (hOUT3) ~ This year in Corsicana - again! ~ at March 26, 2024 10:07 PM (hOUT3)

19 14 Where is this Masters of the Air..uh...airing?

Apple TV

Posted by: Taggart at March 26, 2024 10:07 PM (N2oAm)

20 ONT!

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at March 26, 2024 10:07 PM (DpEcY)

21 And, feature films do not have to be 100% accurate, just accurate enough.

Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:07 PM (V13WU)

22 I admit I bailed on MOTA after the 4th episode
the cliches were ladled on too thick for me

IMO YMMV

Posted by: Don Black at March 26, 2024 10:07 PM (oCjPU)

23 It is a gift to be obsessed with our American heroes.

Posted by: jimmymcnulty at March 26, 2024 10:07 PM (WQsZB)

24 Austin Butler is everywhere these days. Elvis. Dune. Now this.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at March 26, 2024 10:07 PM (rJ7Hd)

25 I read an ancient yellow page series of my dads call 'A yankee flyer over....'

Posted by: a dude in MI at March 26, 2024 10:08 PM (+I6Y/)

26 Where is this Masters of the Air..uh...airing?

Posted by: AlaBAMA at March 26, 2024 10:06 PM (rJ7Hd)

I watched it on apple+ TV.

Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:08 PM (V13WU)

27 It is a gift to be obsessed with our American heroes.
Posted by: jimmymcnulty at March 26, 2024 10:07 PM (WQsZB)

Enjoy that gift while you still can, comrade "citizen"!

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar (hOUT3) ~ This year in Corsicana - again! ~ at March 26, 2024 10:09 PM (hOUT3)

28 10 Only Tuesday ??? Feels like Thursday...
Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:04 PM (V13WU

Jesus is just now kicking in doors and knocking over tables.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at March 26, 2024 10:09 PM (rJ7Hd)

29 Content is consumed.

I have no plans on getting Max but hopefully Masters Of The Air will end up on Blu-ray.

And that print is freakin' gorgeous!

Posted by: Robert at March 26, 2024 10:09 PM (xt2dn)

30 Book: "everything but the flak" about searching for B17s to use in movies. Flying tired weary worn aircraft home to studios for repairs.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the Struggle to maintain Moron standards at March 26, 2024 10:09 PM (Ru/H6)

31 I liked the last episode where they tell the real life stories of the series prototypes.

Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:09 PM (V13WU)

32 Evenin’, All.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at March 26, 2024 10:10 PM (9yWhg)

33 This ONT really bombed.

.....

How often can you say that as a compliment?

Posted by: mikeski at March 26, 2024 10:10 PM (DgGvY)

34 The P-38 is my favorite fighter just based on it’s looks. Plus it shot down Yamamoto’s plane.

Posted by: polynikes at March 26, 2024 10:10 PM (MNhXM)

35 Oh, it's on Apple?

I assumed Max. Band of Brothers and The Oacific were both HBO shows.

Well...not planning on getting AppleTV either.

Posted by: Robert at March 26, 2024 10:10 PM (xt2dn)

36 We didn't get a hidden music video so here is one following suit.

https://tinyurl.com/2s3f5ap6

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at March 26, 2024 10:11 PM (FVME7)

37

Read the book. Haven't watched the series.
Posted by: Tuna at March 26, 2024 10:06 PM (oaGWv)

what are you ? an intellectual ??? reading books and stuff...show off

Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:11 PM (V13WU)

38 I've climbed through a couple of B-17's. They are cramped. Also saw Texas Raiders go down in Dallas after the mid air collision.

Posted by: Taggart at March 26, 2024 10:11 PM (N2oAm)

39 My father was too old for combat service in WW2, so he was trained as a B-17 mechanic. Newly trained aircrews went to the aircraft factories and picked up newly built aircraft, then flew them to England and into the war.

Dad worked at a base in Newfoundland where the new bombers and crews made an overnight stop on their way to England. Dad and the other ground crews serviced the aircraft and fixed any problems the crews had found on the way there.

At times, they handled 70 new B-17s every day, for months on end. Imagine an America that could crank out that much war material, in addition to all the other bomber models and fighters and ships and tanks and trucks and everything else.

Truly the Greatest Generation.

Posted by: BillyD at March 26, 2024 10:11 PM (F6Xpw)

40 Toos Day Oh Enty

It sez hyar.

Hi again.

Posted by: mindful webworker - having a time at March 26, 2024 10:11 PM (fzdyS)

41 Masters of the Air is no Red Tails

Posted by: George Lucas at March 26, 2024 10:11 PM (4I/2K)

42 B-17 and Corsair were my favorite

My back is covered in Coarse Hair.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the Struggle to maintain Moron standards at March 26, 2024 10:12 PM (Ru/H6)

43 37

Read the book. Haven't watched the series.
Posted by: Tuna at March 26, 2024 10:06 PM (oaGWv)

what are you ? an intellectual ??? reading books and stuff...show off
Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:11 PM (V13WU

I know, right. Wanting everyone to be impressed.

Oh, I can read!

Big whoopie cushion. I can fart the star spangled banner when I'm drunk.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at March 26, 2024 10:12 PM (RUMEY)

44 I always thought the military airplane graveyards were a sad sad place.

Posted by: polynikes at March 26, 2024 10:12 PM (MNhXM)

45 50th

Posted by: Erebus- ex-killer whale at March 26, 2024 10:13 PM (/Td2i)

46 6 Good news, everyone!

McDonald's is going to start selling Krispy Kreme doughnuts!

Posted by: Robert at March 26, 2024 10:01 PM (xt2dn)

----
https://tinyurl.com/4xkxvkvt

Posted by: Ciampino - B-18, B-19 .... seen a B- seen them all -- sarc at March 26, 2024 10:13 PM (qfLjt)

47 45 50th
Posted by: Erebus- ex-killer whale at March 26, 2024 10:13 PM (/Td2i

People can't math.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at March 26, 2024 10:13 PM (RUMEY)

48 Masters of the Air is no Red Tails
Posted by: George Lucas at March 26, 2024 10:11 PM (4I/2K)

which are no Top Gun and Top Gun Maverick !

Posted by: Tom Cruise at March 26, 2024 10:13 PM (V13WU)

49 How many fighter planes had co-pilots?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 26, 2024 10:13 PM (63Dwl)

50 So this must be the "smart military blog" I've heard so much about.

Posted by: JohnFNotKerry at March 26, 2024 10:13 PM (IL8pV)

51 I'm partial to the F4U Corsair. Many build by Goodyear I believe.

Posted by: Tonypete at March 26, 2024 10:14 PM (WXNFJ)

52 Austin Butler is everywhere these days. Elvis. Dune. Now this.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at March 26, 2024 10:07 PM (rJ7Hd)

You hop into a cab and there he is, driving. Then you walk into a diner and he's serving you coffee. You answer your door and he's delivering your Amazon order.

It's the nature of celebrity. He's everywhere until he's nowhere to be found.

Posted by: Robert at March 26, 2024 10:14 PM (xt2dn)

53 Late husband's father was a navigator/bombardier on a B24. My mom's cousin was a B17 pilot. Didn't fly for 25 years after the war. Said he had used up all of his luck during the war.

Posted by: Tuna at March 26, 2024 10:14 PM (oaGWv)

54
Evening, all!

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at March 26, 2024 10:15 PM (wjjYr)

55 Can't get the mystery music click to work....

Posted by: mindful webworker - clik clik clik clik at March 26, 2024 10:16 PM (fzdyS)

56 How many fighter planes had co-pilots?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 26, 2024 10:13 PM (63Dwl)

In the European theater I can’t think of any but I’m no expert.

Posted by: polynikes at March 26, 2024 10:16 PM (MNhXM)

57 Imagine how level bombing runs over an enemy nation would be covered by the FNM in 2024?

Well, presuming the target was not Russia...

Posted by: 18-1 at March 26, 2024 10:17 PM (ibTVg)

58 The last picture, with the painting of
* quick web search *
Betty Grable.

Why don't we do that any more?

And would our military be better if we still did?

Posted by: mikeski at March 26, 2024 10:18 PM (DgGvY)

59 "If you haven’t watched it and you have any interest in history, you might consider a binge watch party"
***************
I just had foot surgery today that's going to keep me off my feet for the next few weeks so I've purposely waited until now to start watching this series.

Posted by: Cosda at March 26, 2024 10:20 PM (ZqJgk)

60 polynikes (#34):
The P-38 is also used as an anatomical metaphor in a Big Joe Turner song: "She's got a double fuselage, built up like a P-38." Sorry, I don't recall the name of the song.

Posted by: Dr. Weevil at March 26, 2024 10:20 PM (uL3GK)

61 The last picture, with the painting of
* quick web search *
Betty Grable.

Why don't we do that any more?

And would our military be better if we still did?
Posted by: mikeski

Pappy Boyington would be thrown out in today's world.

Posted by: Tonypete at March 26, 2024 10:20 PM (WXNFJ)

62 I have been in a B-17 on two occasions.
One was Sentimental Journey back in the 80's at Falcon Field.
The other B-17 was in the 90's at a place called Evergreen where they were restoring multiple planes, including a 747.
What surprised me about the B-17 is how cramped it was.
I can't imagine trying to bail out of one as it was spinning.

Posted by: Erebus-ex-killer whale at March 26, 2024 10:20 PM (/Td2i)

63 Why don't we do that any more?

Posted by: mikeski at March 26, 2024 10:18 PM (DgGvY)

All the missiles would be painted as giant dicks.

Posted by: Robert at March 26, 2024 10:21 PM (xt2dn)

64 49 How many fighter planes had co-pilots?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 26, 2024 10:13 PM (63Dwl)
----
I was going to ask that. In more modern times we made F-14s that had a crew of 2 but I don't recillect WW2 dual-seat fighters.

Posted by: Ciampino - B-52s in WW2 would have speeded up the end at March 26, 2024 10:21 PM (qfLjt)

65 Nice work on the ONT, Roger. Not likely for me to see this movie or miniseries, since i don't have TV, and would not subscribe to any of the streaming services if I did. Why give money to people who hate you and want you dead? But if some friend has it on DVD, and invites me to watch, I sure would.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 26, 2024 10:22 PM (tkR6S)

66 I have a picture of yours truly in front of the B17 Aluminum Overcast. Over my left shoulder is the inboard portside engine, a Studebaker. Beautiful airplane, brave airmen. But it took infantry to take and hold territory.

Posted by: Eromero at March 26, 2024 10:22 PM (NxC5+)

67 From my mother’s sleep I fell into the State,
And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze.
Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life,
I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters.
When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.

Posted by: Randall Jarrell at March 26, 2024 10:22 PM (r5tfK)

68 45 50th
Posted by: Erebus- ex-killer whale at March 26, 2024 10:13 PM (/Td2i

People can't math.
Posted by: AlaBAMA

I was told there would be no math.

Posted by: Erebus-ex-killer whale at March 26, 2024 10:22 PM (/Td2i)

69 Pappy Boyington would be thrown out in today's world.
Posted by: Tonypete at March 26, 2024 10:20 PM (WXNFJ)

Although not an airman, there is no way George Patton would be given a field command today!

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar (hOUT3) ~ This year in Corsicana - again! ~ at March 26, 2024 10:23 PM (hOUT3)

70 Average age of WWII airmen was 19-20 yo. Think on that.

Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:23 PM (V13WU)

71 Cool ONT, Roger.

Posted by: scampydog at March 26, 2024 10:24 PM (41CYW)

72 P-61 was a three seater.

I think the Avenger was a two seater.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at March 26, 2024 10:24 PM (RUMEY)

73 Thanks for the post. Masters of the Air meant a lot to me as my Dad was a B-17 Captain, stationed in England, was shot down, ended up at Stalag Luft III and then participated in the Long March where he ended up in Mooseburg. The story arc followed his experience almost exactly. No, the show isn't perfect (some cliches, places where it drags) but it did depict some aspects of my late father's life that I can't imagine living through. It makes me sad that I'm the last link with a direct contact to World War II.

Posted by: Pilot at March 26, 2024 10:24 PM (M+4Y9)

74 Although not an airman, there is no way George Patton would be given a field command today!
Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar

Thought starter - when GEN Patton was censured for slapping the wounded soldier, was that among the first examples of being punished for political correctness?

Posted by: Tonypete at March 26, 2024 10:25 PM (WXNFJ)

75 Thanks for the post. Masters of the Air meant a lot to me as my Dad was a B-17 Captain, stationed in England, was shot down, ended up at Stalag Luft III and then participated in the Long March where he ended up in Mooseburg. The story arc followed his experience almost exactly. No, the show isn't perfect (some cliches, places where it drags) but it did depict some aspects of my late father's life that I can't imagine living through. It makes me sad that I'm the last link with a direct contact to World War II.
Posted by: Pilot at March 26, 2024 10:24 PM (M+4Y9)

Very humbling.

Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:25 PM (V13WU)

76 70 Average age of WWII airmen was 19-20 yo. Think on that.
Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:23 PM (V13WU)

Different generation. Different families. Different love of country. A lot less commie indoctrination

Posted by: AlaBAMA at March 26, 2024 10:26 PM (RUMEY)

77 Good evening morons and thank you Roger Ball

I wouldn't trust an average 19-20 year old to find their way out of a brown paper bag.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at March 26, 2024 10:26 PM (RIvkX)

78 My dad was in England, waiting to go across after D-Day. They asked for volunteers to fly in the back of C-47 and kick out door bundles. He thought that sounded exciting, so he went.

He said the scariest thing was, as they were in a dark fuselage in broad daylight, watching the holes open up and the bright light shine through.

He didn't do it again.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at March 26, 2024 10:27 PM (r5tfK)

79 Different generation. Different families. Different love of country. A lot less commie indoctrination
Posted by: AlaBAMA at March 26, 2024 10:26 PM (RUMEY)

Yes....

Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:27 PM (V13WU)

80 I had the privilege to talk to a co-pilot of a B 17 at the air museum in Tucson. when I told him I was in Tool & Die trade and my dad worked at the Dodge plant in Chicago building engines for B-29 he let me climb up inside the B-17 on display.
We talked for quite a while. He still hasd frost bite marks on his face from the oxygen masks. After the war he became a minister.

Posted by: Cicero skip at March 26, 2024 10:27 PM (4ezYQ)

81 I've flown a B-17. Unladen and with nobody shooting at you, they're a dream: easy inputs, simple to trim out, can execute 'normal' turns without rudder -- it just banks the way you turn the yoke. Like some of the sporty fighters, it must have been frustrating as hell to never be able to just go for a cruise for the joy of it.

I'm told the B-24 was a hell of a lot more work.

Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at March 26, 2024 10:27 PM (zdLoL)

82 Thanks for a thoughtful and informative ONT, Roger Ball!

Always a pleasure to read!

Posted by: Legally Sufficient at March 26, 2024 10:27 PM (U3L4U)

83 Average age of WWII airmen was 19-20 yo. Think on that.
Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:23 PM (V13WU)

My step brother got his air cross when he was 19. I think he got his purple heart when he was 20.
He later went into logging and liked topping trees. Hard job when you have stones that large

Posted by: Kindltot at March 26, 2024 10:28 PM (D7oie)

84 81 I've flown a B-17. Unladen and with nobody shooting at you, they're a dream: easy inputs, simple to trim out, can execute 'normal' turns without rudder -- it just banks the way you turn the yoke. Like some of the sporty fighters, it must have been frustrating as hell to never be able to just go for a cruise for the joy of it.

I'm told the B-24 was a hell of a lot more work.
Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at March 26, 2024 10:27 PM (zdLoL)

Very cool!

Posted by: AlaBAMA at March 26, 2024 10:28 PM (RUMEY)

85 Evenin'

Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 26, 2024 10:29 PM (sAmhv)

86 Average age of WWII airmen was 19-20 yo. Think on that.
Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:23 PM (V13WU)

The age of mucho bravado and not knowing any better.

Posted by: a dude in MI at March 26, 2024 10:30 PM (+I6Y/)

87 >>> How far Boeing has fallen.

Posted by: Braenyard at March 26, 2024 10:30 PM (vsQ70)

88 Rick Beato had a pretty neat interview with Danny Carey from Tool.

Danny explained that every album, going back to the first, was conceived and jammed and figured out in Danny's jam space in LA, once they get the music together, they hand it to Maynard who figures out the lyrics, make some tweaks and then record it at a mixing studio, typically in LA.

The one thing that floored me is that Danny, to this day records his drums to tape and is not digitally recorded.

They're also working on a remastered Aenima Vinyl LP.

Or alternatively...

I can see the future and it is Bender dropping the needle on a remastered Aenima.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at March 26, 2024 10:30 PM (XV/Pl)

89 I've flown a B-17. Unladen. . . .
Posted by: Way, Way Downriver

This puts to rest the age-old question: "Laden or unLaden?"

Posted by: Tonypete at March 26, 2024 10:30 PM (WXNFJ)

90 I'm looking at a cabinet in my den on top of which are 11 fighters or bombers of American, German or Japanese design from WW II. At 6'2" the only one I could have fit in was a P47.

Posted by: Eromero at March 26, 2024 10:30 PM (NxC5+)

91 My father-in-law's brother was a P-51 pilot who had shot down 3 German aircraft. No one knew. They knew he went away to the war and came back and didn't talk about it. It wasn't until after he passed away that anyone in the family researched his war record.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at March 26, 2024 10:30 PM (r5tfK)

92 *Roger, Roger, What's the Vector Victor.

* Too easy.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at March 26, 2024 10:31 PM (XV/Pl)

93 The age of mucho bravado and not knowing any better.
Posted by: a dude in MI at March 26, 2024 10:30 PM (+I6Y/)

I disagree.

Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:31 PM (V13WU)

94 Watching college baseball.

Slippery Rock vs Pitt-Johnstown. Game is in Johnstown, PA. The baseball stadium looks really nice. Like new nice. Wonder when it was built. Johnstown is a shithole but at least it has a nice ballpark. I guess. Or Johnstown is doing a bit better now. Haven't been there in years.

Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 26, 2024 10:31 PM (sAmhv)

95 @87

>>>>> How far Boeing has fallen.

Well, one of their planes hasn't fallen completely out of the sky.

So, they got that going for them.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at March 26, 2024 10:32 PM (XV/Pl)

96 “You can drop bombs of flaming gasoline on innocent civilians, I guess, but nekkid ladies, why that would be obscene!”

Somebody, somewhere. Maybe Catch 22 ? Paul Fussell griped about this in his books, I think too.

Posted by: Common Tater at March 26, 2024 10:32 PM (1aoEg)

97 How far Boeing has fallen.

==

let's not panic just yet , so far it's just been parts...

Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:33 PM (V13WU)

98 Thought starter - when GEN Patton was censured for slapping the wounded soldier, was that among the first examples of being punished for political correctness?
Posted by: Tonypete at March 26, 2024 10:25 PM (WXNFJ)

Interesting thought, sure seems correct!

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar (hOUT3) ~ This year in Corsicana - again! ~ at March 26, 2024 10:33 PM (hOUT3)

99 52 It's the nature of celebrity. He's everywhere until he's nowhere to be found.
Posted by: Robert at March 26, 2024 10:14 PM (xt2dn)

Tell me about it

Posted by: Helen Hunt at March 26, 2024 10:34 PM (IGKzA)

100 You can see the Enola Gay at the Air & Space museum annex in Dulles, VA. It's a B-29 not a B-17. I'm amazed they haven't removed it because we're ruled by malignant clowns.

Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 26, 2024 10:34 PM (sAmhv)

101 OK, can somebody explain this to me : "Kind-hearted woman nurses stricken 'baby hedgehog' overnight only to discover it was a fluffy hat bobble when she took it to an animal hospital"....

Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:35 PM (V13WU)

102 My father was the tailgunner on a B-17, "The Old-Timer", flying out of England in WWII. For his birthday I got him a ride on one of those restored B-17s. It was *supposed* to take off September 12, 2001. Yep. Sigh ...

He told GREAT stories about the crew. He was the baby and they all looked after him, even the ball turret gunner who was only there because he'd been caught stealing horses off an Indian reservation

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at March 26, 2024 10:36 PM (InqhU)

103 I'm amazed they haven't removed it because we're ruled by malignant clowns. Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 26, 2024 10:34 PM (sAmhv)

Don't give them any ideas. They may not even know the annex exists.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at March 26, 2024 10:36 PM (r5tfK)

104 OK, can somebody explain this to me : "Kind-hearted woman nurses stricken 'baby hedgehog' overnight only to discover it was a fluffy hat bobble when she took it to an animal hospital"....
Posted by: runner
------------
Rachel Maddow viewer?

Posted by: scampydog at March 26, 2024 10:37 PM (41CYW)

105 My hedgehog is not eating or drinking !!111!

--lady trying to feed a fluffy hat

Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:37 PM (V13WU)

106 Who built the B 17?

Boeing did. And they built a ton of them. And they built them fast. And they were awesome planes.

I've seen one up close. Amazing planes.

Boeing will get their mojo back. Just you wait.

Posted by: nurse ratched at March 26, 2024 10:37 PM (giTxN)

107 101 OK, can somebody explain this to me : "Kind-hearted woman nurses stricken 'baby hedgehog' overnight only to discover it was a fluffy hat bobble when she took it to an animal hospital"....

Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:35 PM (V13WU)
----
One skunk to the other as they answer Mums food call: "This may be our last great meal. She's getting glasses tomorrow."

Posted by: Ciampino - B-52s in WW2 would have speeded up the end? at March 26, 2024 10:38 PM (qfLjt)

108 Saw a B-17G at the National Museum of the Mighty Eighth Air Force in Savannah, GA. Pretty amazing place.

Posted by: BubblePuppy7 at March 26, 2024 10:38 PM (JomtJ)

109 96 “You can drop bombs of flaming gasoline on innocent civilians, I guess, but nekkid ladies, why that would be obscene!”

Somebody, somewhere. Maybe Catch 22 ? Paul Fussell griped about this in his books, I think too.
Posted by: Common Tater at March 26, 2024 10:32 PM
all-horde crew of B17 named 'Holy Shitballs' with painting of a female beaver with vast acreages of bewbs carrying a 1911 in right hand and a hand grenade in left hand screaming 'Fcuk you, Adolph, you solo-balled freak!'.

Posted by: Eromero at March 26, 2024 10:38 PM (NxC5+)

110 98 Thought starter - when GEN Patton was censured for slapping the wounded soldier, was that among the first examples of being punished for political correctness?
Posted by: Tonypete at March 26, 2024 10:25 PM (WXNFJ)

Interesting thought, sure seems correct!

What General today would have the stones to deliver Patton's Third Army Speech?

https://shorturl.at/hjrOV

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar (hOUT3) ~ This year in Corsicana - again! ~ at March 26, 2024 10:38 PM (hOUT3)

111 I have seen the B17 Sentimental Journey several times at Falcon Field, and have seen her fly over the house here in AJ on several occasions. Always an awesome sight.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 26, 2024 10:40 PM (tkR6S)

112 I haven't taken the flight, but I've done the walk through several times - Sentimental Journey and a couple others. The walk across the bomb bay is tricky - I can't imagine doing that in the air with the doors open !

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 26, 2024 10:40 PM (S6gqv)

113 I understand Payton’s thinking when he slapped the soldiers, but it was still a dickhead thing to do.

That guy thought that everyone should love war as much as he did.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at March 26, 2024 10:42 PM (9yWhg)

114 R-1820 on the back of a tractor going to some good rpms.

https://youtu.be/RuzF9P6xUrA?t=283

Posted by: Braenyard at March 26, 2024 10:43 PM (vsQ70)

115 100 You can see the Enola Gay at the Air & Space museum annex in Dulles, VA. It's a B-29 not a B-17. I'm amazed they haven't removed it because we're ruled by malignant clowns.
Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 26, 2024 10:34 PM (sAmhv)

Soon!

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar (hOUT3) ~ This year in Corsicana - again! ~ at March 26, 2024 10:45 PM (hOUT3)

116 Punished for political correctness - Peloponnesian War, the Athenians executed some of their best Admirals because after a great victory, they were worried about a counterattack and didn't go search the sea for Survivors. The other leaders were outraged and quit, and Athens lost the war.

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 26, 2024 10:45 PM (S6gqv)

117 @113

>>That guy thought that everyone should love war as much as he did.

Patron was tough but also was cruel in a way, and more than likely a dickhead, but the times called for a cruel dick head.

The times make the man.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at March 26, 2024 10:46 PM (XV/Pl)

118 I haven't taken the flight, but I've done the walk through several times - Sentimental Journey and a couple others. The walk across the bomb bay is tricky - I can't imagine doing that in the air with the doors open !
Posted by: Tom Servo

The tail gunner's position is no picnic either.

Posted by: Erebus-ex-killer whale at March 26, 2024 10:46 PM (/Td2i)

119 Climbed into a B-24 once. Yea... no thanks.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at March 26, 2024 10:47 PM (Q4IgG)

120 Oh... BTW... got tours of that B-24, a B-17 and a B-25 in Monterey, CA back in 2007-ish. Awesome planes.

Awesome crews.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at March 26, 2024 10:49 PM (Q4IgG)

121 This thread is so cool. Thanks much, Roger.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 26, 2024 10:49 PM (V8he0)

122 On December 16, 1944, when the Germans attacked in the Ardennes, Patton had his staff begin planning to shift the Third Army north with Bastogne as an objective. On December 19, Eisenhower met with his generals. He asked Patton how long it would take to begin a counterattack and Patton told him it could be done in 48 hours. That was only possible because he anticipated the next move. On December 21 Third Army began attacking north, and by December 26 had reached Bastogne.

As my dad said, our blood and his guts, but his generalship unquestionably shortened the war by weeks if not months, saving thousands of lives on both sides.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at March 26, 2024 10:50 PM (r5tfK)

123 For some reason, I liken those plane crews in my mind to the crew of the Hunley.

Death in a tube.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at March 26, 2024 10:50 PM (9yWhg)

124 In the nose, at the bombardier's station, you can almost stand up, and spread-eagle in the perspex cone. You can't see the engines or wings, just everything you're flying through and over. Until the wingsuit, it was the closest thing to being a flying creature.

I have an acquaintance who's a fixed-operator mechanic, and met his dad who'd spent the war in the nose of a B-25. I got all serious about how brassy his balls were, and thanked him for doing what he'd done. "Shit," he laughed. "You couldn't have kept us out of there."

Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at March 26, 2024 10:51 PM (zdLoL)

125 Speaking of B-17 bomb bay doors ... one of Dad's stories (not even involving combat!) involved the feature that they would open automatically under 70 lbs. of pressure unless secured. This was a safety feature to keep loose bombs *outside* the aircraft, you know, just in case. Less useful when flying over Texas, with no bombs, but a forgetful navigator taking a toolbox back to fix something or other and not wanting to bother with the catwalk. (Hint: he weighed more than 70 lbs and the doors were NOT secured). The navigator was able to grab on to something but the toolbox got launched. The crew kept it quiet until they were sure nobody had gotten smashed by it. Somewhere in Texas there is a crater with a Army Air Force toolbox at the bottom ....

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at March 26, 2024 10:51 PM (InqhU)

126 Yeah, that Payton dude was a real dick.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 26, 2024 10:52 PM (V8he0)

127 Blu-ray or DVD issue of this series, please. Getting my local library to get a copy puts much less cash in their hands.

Posted by: Nathan at March 26, 2024 10:53 PM (HBOL9)

128
86 Average age of WWII airmen was 19-20 yo. Think on that.
Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:23 PM (V13WU)

The age of mucho bravado and not knowing any better.
Posted by: a dude in MI at March 26, 2024 10:30 PM (+I6Y/)

My (now deceased) father in laws partner would laugh about he once flew his P-47 Thunderbolt under a railroad bridge in France. We asked why and he said "because I was 19 years old and they'd put me in the seat of one of the most powerful fighters in the world, that's why."

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 26, 2024 10:54 PM (S6gqv)

129 Somewhere in Texas there is a crater with a Army Air Force toolbox at the bottom .... Posted by: Sabrina Chase at March 26, 2024 10:51 PM (InqhU)

We have lots of wide open space. Odds of hitting anybody below were pretty low.

I bet he paid for the toolbox too, or at least one month's pay.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at March 26, 2024 10:54 PM (r5tfK)

130 DII College baseball umpires aren't much better than there MLB counterparts. Just watched one blow an easy out call. Kid was out by 3ft, easily. Called safe.

Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 26, 2024 10:54 PM (sAmhv)

131 >>> What surprised me about the B-17 is how cramped it was.
I can't imagine trying to bail out of one as it was spinning.
Posted by: Erebus-ex-killer whale

Bomber crews had a higher mortality rate than infantry.
Read that ball turret gunner was 50%+.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 26, 2024 10:55 PM (cOq4q)

132 My (now deceased) father in laws partner would laugh about he once flew his P-47 Thunderbolt under a railroad bridge in France. We asked why and he said "because I was 19 years old and they'd put me in the seat of one of the most powerful fighters in the world, that's why." Posted by: Tom Servo at March 26, 2024 10:54 PM (S6gqv)

John Glenn was said to have done it in Korea.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at March 26, 2024 10:55 PM (r5tfK)

133 Management will always be criticized by the employees. Officers will always be criticized by enlisted. It's the way of the world. History will decide but unfortunately it's not always written accurately.

I'm a big fan of both MacArthur and Patton with all their faults.

Posted by: polynikes at March 26, 2024 10:57 PM (WmV84)

134 Thanks for the review.

I haven't watched it yet, but was surprised by the, let's say, lack of enthusiasm, from regular posters. I can't recall anyone here talking the series up at all.

Band of Brothers may just have been that rare bit of real excellence that everything since has failed to emulate.

Posted by: spindrift at March 26, 2024 10:57 PM (1qxHl)

135 I don’t understand people who want to fly planes. Or scuba dive. I’m strictly terrestrial.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at March 26, 2024 10:58 PM (9yWhg)

136 I don't believe Roger Ball is a real person. It's just CBD in aviators, hopped up on goofballs, roleplaying.

Posted by: J'Accuse! at March 26, 2024 11:00 PM (6l4sY)

137 Avs still trail 2-1 after 2
the Montreal goalie has them completely stymied

Posted by: Don Black at March 26, 2024 11:01 PM (oCjPU)

138 don’t understand people who want to fly planes. Or scuba dive. I’m strictly terrestrial.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at March 26, 2024 10:58 PM (9yWhg)

If you did both of those things you could become extraterrestrial.

Posted by: polynikes at March 26, 2024 11:01 PM (WmV84)

139 >>> Different generation. Different families. Different love of country. A lot less commie indoctrination
Posted by: AlaBAMA

Big families, lot's of kids, higher young mortality than today...
They knew they were mortal.
And had a lot more religion to cope with it.

Today, not so much of any of it.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 26, 2024 11:02 PM (cOq4q)

140 100 You can see the Enola Gay at the Air & Space museum annex in Dulles, VA. It's a B-29 not a B-17. I'm amazed they haven't removed it because we're ruled by malignant clowns.
Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 26, 2024 10:34 PM (sAmhv)

It’s luck that Tibbets mom’s maiden name was Gay.

Posted by: Rex B at March 26, 2024 11:02 PM (5h/8D)

141 The number of 20 year old's today that could fly a plane, let alone figure out the navigation with just a map or compass is probably in the low double digits.

There's a small grass strip nearby and one of the planes there is an old Taylorcraft L-2 Grasshopper... with the Normandy black and white stripes still on it.

Probably not "original" but still pretty cool.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at March 26, 2024 11:02 PM (Q4IgG)

142 Remember a number of those pilots started the Hells Angels. 😀

Posted by: polynikes at March 26, 2024 11:03 PM (WmV84)

143 Story I remember about a nuke that got dropped accidentally in the US, as told by the flight crew later. There was a warning light from the bomb bay, so the co-pilot was sent down to check. Exactly what happened next is unclear, but turbulence may have thrown him into the manual release. The bomb came loose, took the bomb bay doors with it, and they all knew what had happened because the bomber instantly gained several thousand feet of altitude as all that weight dropped. They were all sure the co-pilot was dead until he suddenly appeared back at the cockpit saying over and over, "I didn't do it! I didn't do it!!!"

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 26, 2024 11:05 PM (S6gqv)

144 a fighter plane's co-pilot
Ummmm, someone doesn't know their bomber from a hole in the ground.

Posted by: GWB at March 26, 2024 11:05 PM (69JzL)

145 Last I knew they were restoring a B-17 at the Salem, OR airport. It needed a lot of TLC.

IIRC, there were more B-24s built than B-17s but the B-17 got the glory.

Posted by: Beartooth at March 26, 2024 11:05 PM (LjgPm)

146 My "Masters of the Air" opinion - Meh. No plot, no continuity, no character development. Had I not previously read histories of the 'Bloody Hundredth' (100th Bombardment Group (Heavy)) I wouldn't have had a clue about the characters in MotA and why the series focused on them. Or that the whole thing is sorta based on reality. The CGI, especially of exploding bombers, was over the top, IMHO. But so is CGI in all action movies nowadays.

I have copies of all 9 episodes on a hard drive (don't ask me how) but have only watched thru Episode 6. I'm not sure I'll ever watch the last three episodes.

Posted by: Gref at March 26, 2024 11:05 PM (5fDan)

147 The Enola Gay did real good.

For a homosexual aircraft.

Posted by: Winged Pride at March 26, 2024 11:05 PM (6l4sY)

148 And I still think "Roger Ball" as moniker is pretty cool...

Naval aviators get it. Naval aviation geeks get it too.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at March 26, 2024 11:07 PM (Q4IgG)

149 Roger Ball, super presentation.

Posted by: Braenyard at March 26, 2024 11:07 PM (vsQ70)

150 ‘To fly is heavenly, but to hover is divine.’
Ask any helicopter pilot.

Posted by: Eromero at March 26, 2024 11:07 PM (NxC5+)

151 Climbed into a B-24 once. Yea... no thanks.
Posted by: Martini Farmer

I toured the USS Cod in Cleveland awhile back. How sailors willingly were aboard any Gato class sub back in the day is astounding.

Posted by: Tonypete at March 26, 2024 11:08 PM (WXNFJ)

152 How would the Red Baron have fared in WWII, do you think?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at March 26, 2024 11:09 PM (9yWhg)

153 Today, not so much of any of it.

Funny, I get to meet a lot of young people who are just dying to be air crew, or pilots. The biggest difference is the number of experts telling us "I'd never allow my kid to do that" or calling them suckers or worse, and I see those every day. Oddly, there were some people saying that in WWII also, and you never see them in the TV specials. Our social media are much more powerful.

Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at March 26, 2024 11:09 PM (zdLoL)

154 For some reason, I liken those plane crews in my mind to the crew of the Hunley.

Death in a tube.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at March 26, 2024 10:50 PM (9yWhg)

At the beginning of "Das Boot", we are told that that German U-Boat crews suffered ~75% mortality.

That's pretty grim. You would probably not sign up for that action.

It was a little shocking to discover that that was approximately the same fatality rate British Bomber Command suffered during the war.

Posted by: spindrift at March 26, 2024 11:10 PM (1qxHl)

155 Years back, when we were still able to move comfortably, the XO and I crawled through the B-17 then parked at Offutt AFB several times during air shows. My questions centered on how the hell did they manage ten guys to hop on board, then fly incredible distances. The only thing between the guys and the great out of doors was a single sheet of metal. No insulation, no nothing.

Interesting factoid: the XO and I were driving VW vans. (They were cheap and he could do most of the maintenance himself.) Just as a joke, we measured the front seat of a van from door to door, then measured the cockpit from door to door. Much to our surprise, the van and the B-17 measured exactly the same.

Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin -- I stand with Israel and all Jews everywhere at March 26, 2024 11:10 PM (ET1Q8)

156 147 The Enola Gay did real good.

For a homosexual aircraft.
Posted by: Winged Pride at March 26, 2024 11:05 PM (6l4sY)

It was a happy plane.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at March 26, 2024 11:11 PM (8sMut)

157 Ball turrets were tiny. I toured a B-24 where they had one open, a 9 year old got into it. I sat down and put my legs into it - and that's all of me that would fit into it!

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 26, 2024 11:12 PM (S6gqv)

158 The B-17s got to the UK first, and were more common amongst the 8th AF there. B-24s arrived later and were based further out from London by then. So for reporters covering the war it was easier with gas rationing to visit the nearer bases, or so I’ve read.

Posted by: Rex B at March 26, 2024 11:12 PM (5h/8D)

159 I have a number of high school / college friends who became military pilots so I'm thinking there are still guys who can do the job . Yeah I forgot that we are all well over 29 now.

( still under 29 in my head)

Posted by: polynikes at March 26, 2024 11:14 PM (WmV84)

160 My father once worked with a guy who successfully escaped from a German POW by stealing an airplane and flying it back to Holland. He was also the chase pilot when Chuck Yeager broke the sound barrier.

https://tinyurl.com/puc5xas7

Posted by: Interesting Times at March 26, 2024 11:14 PM (ieN7O)

161 And, thanks, Roger Ball, for this ONT.

Posted by: GWB at March 26, 2024 11:14 PM (69JzL)

162 Something easily forgotten about conditions on the B-17; no pressurization, no heat, at altitude those crews were often flying at 30 below in the cabin.

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 26, 2024 11:15 PM (S6gqv)

163
Interesting aphasia episode with my mother early this afternoon, eating lunch. Her aphasia after the "mild" stroke was initially rated as "severe" on a clinical scale they used, but after two weeks has improved to "mild".

Anyway, eating she wanted something, but couldn't get the word out. She said, "You know, those little things you put in your mouth." (I know, I know, but one has to keep a straight face).

It hit Miley that she may have meant Cheetos, which she likes. Miley asked here, "Is it orange colored?"

My mother nodded, and said, "Yes, Beestus". So, Beestus = Cheetos. I got her the bag, the pointed at the name printed out. She immediately said "Cheetos!" out loud.

Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at March 26, 2024 11:15 PM (w6EFb)

164 Years back, when we were still able to move comfortably, the XO and I crawled through the B-17 then parked at Offutt AFB several times during air shows. My questions centered on how the hell did they manage ten guys to hop on board, then fly incredible distances. The only thing between the guys and the great out of doors was a single sheet of metal. No insulation, no nothing.

Interesting factoid: the XO and I were driving VW vans. (They were cheap and he could do most of the maintenance himself.) Just as a joke, we measured the front seat of a van from door to door, then measured the cockpit from door to door. Much to our surprise, the van and the B-17 measured exactly the same.
Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin -- I stand with Israel and all Jews everywhere

I believe that.
Being inside one really makes you appreciate how brave those guys were.

Posted by: Erebus-ex-killer whale at March 26, 2024 11:15 PM (/Td2i)

165 In a national mobilization, it isn’t the industrial base issue that I find the problem: it is the culture. It ultimately does not matter what your industrial or resource base is if people do not care about the cause or do not act out of a sense of patriotism. It’s worth remembering that there wasn’t much of a base of anything except patriotism and resolve in the early 1940s thanks to the depression but it got spun up rather quickly.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at March 26, 2024 11:15 PM (8sMut)

166 The number of 20 year old's today that could fly a plane, let alone figure out the navigation with just a map or compass is probably in the low double digits.

The American planes flying around the world, ready to go to war -- what do you suppose the age group is, doing that? Do you suppose those are your classmates?

Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at March 26, 2024 11:15 PM (zdLoL)

167 In other news, I decided to watch the video for Van Halen's "Jump" and got an ad for Oil of Olay for my troubles.

That seems like some weird marketing.

Posted by: spindrift at March 26, 2024 11:15 PM (1qxHl)

168 Is this the Roger Ball of the Oswego Balls or Roger Ball of the Poughkeepsie Balls?

Posted by: Hard to keep track of all these Balls at March 26, 2024 11:16 PM (tczCu)

169 152 How would the Red Baron have fared in WWII, do you think?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at March 26, 2024 11:09 PM (9yWhg)

I believe he would have performed excellently. If you've got it, you've got it. Airplanes are simply tools to learn to operate and then skillfully use, to pilots like von Richtofen, Thach, Bong, Gabreski, Hartmann, and the other top-notch fighter pilots in history.

Posted by: Gref at March 26, 2024 11:16 PM (5fDan)

170 I want to fly jets sir !

Posted by: polynikes at March 26, 2024 11:16 PM (WmV84)

171 167 In other news, I decided to watch the video for Van Halen's "Jump" and got an ad for Oil of Olay for my troubles.

That seems like some weird marketing.
Posted by: spindrift at March 26, 2024 11:15 PM (1qxHl)

They figure if you're looking that up you're probably old AF and need wrinkle cream. A tad insulting but not necessarily off the mark.

Posted by: Don't need the wrinkle cream just yet at March 26, 2024 11:17 PM (tczCu)

172 I toured the USS Cod in Cleveland awhile back. How sailors willingly were aboard any Gato class sub back in the day is astounding.
Posted by: Tonypete at March 26, 2024 11:08 PM (WXNFJ)

I was on the USS Bowfin at Pearl, touring it after visiting the USS Arizona Memorial. Cramped.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at March 26, 2024 11:17 PM (8sMut)

173 None of those boys would've died in the air or crashing to the ground (or in POW camps) if the French had enforced their fucking treaty in 1936 or had the common sense to use their army in Germany's rear when Germany was knee-deep in Poland.

Posted by: SFGoth at March 26, 2024 11:18 PM (KAi1n)

174 Howdy all what's shaking? Besides the Key bridge for a few seconds before it collapsed? That was quick.

Why is there such a focus on looking for the 6 missing workers, who are no doubt long dead and no mention of the possible vehicles that went into the drink?

The news reports from the local station mention a truck being found on the bottom, but no mention in the national news. This whole reporting seems to be managed, the crash will be a big financial hit to the US.

Yet dispite their reticence to comment on many things the FBI within hours claims there is no terrorist connection. Funny how they figured that out so soon, but can't figure anything else out.

Posted by: Farmer at March 26, 2024 11:18 PM (55Qr6)

175 167 In other news, I decided to watch the video for Van Halen's "Jump" and got an ad for Oil of Olay for my troubles.

That seems like some weird marketing.
Posted by: spindrift at March 26, 2024 11:15 PM (1qxHl)

No rhyme or reason to YT commercials.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at March 26, 2024 11:19 PM (8sMut)

176 The one thread Anna Puma should be in on...

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 26, 2024 11:19 PM (cOq4q)

177 Family friend, bombardier/photographer, from Africa was shot down over Italy. - Crew carried all kinds of emergency like paper marks, francs, other currency, coins, guns - Said when the chutes popped the sky was full of confetti, all the goodies flying out of pockets.
He was rescued by a farmer, taken care of and help back to safety.

Posted by: Braenyard at March 26, 2024 11:19 PM (vsQ70)

178 Posted by: Hard to keep track of all these Balls at March 26, 2024 11:16 PM (tczCu)

Das ist verletzand!

Posted by: Herr Mustache at March 26, 2024 11:20 PM (6l4sY)

179 Have not read all the comments yet, but if you are ever in or near Savannah, Georgia please visit the Museum of the Mighty Eighth Air Force. It’s amazing. They have a B17 fully restored and on display. We spent four hours there and didn’t even see half of the museum.

Posted by: RetSgtRN at March 26, 2024 11:20 PM (eTkTC)

180 173 None of those boys would've died in the air or crashing to the ground (or in POW camps) if the French had enforced their fucking treaty in 1936 or had the common sense to use their army in Germany's rear when Germany was knee-deep in Poland.
Posted by: SFGoth at March 26, 2024 11:18 PM (KAi1n)

If the Frenchies rolled a division, maybe two, in the Rheinland in 1935…

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at March 26, 2024 11:20 PM (8sMut)

181 Had the chance to ride in a B17 a few years ago. What an experience. Ours was a 20 minute joy ride on a warm summer afternoon. We probably never got above 2,500 feet. I cannot imagine the mind-numbing fatigue of a multi-hour high altitude flight bundled up against the European cold.

The plane is not very large and movement is very difficult. I would not have been able to serve a number of the guns even in my skinny youth as I would have been too large.

Posted by: Pete Bog at March 26, 2024 11:22 PM (FL1z8)

182 The one thread Anna Puma should be in on...
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 26, 2024 11:19 PM (cOq4q)

She commented on it a few days ago. As an aficionado of WW2 planes she was not happy with the accuracy.

Posted by: polynikes at March 26, 2024 11:22 PM (WmV84)

183 Goodnight, All. Fascinating ONT, but I gotta resume the job search in the morning.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at March 26, 2024 11:22 PM (9yWhg)

184 Posted by: SFGoth at March 26, 2024 11:18 PM (KAi1n

France wasn't the only signatory to the treaty.

Posted by: polynikes at March 26, 2024 11:23 PM (WmV84)

185 Toured the RAF museum north of London once. They must have had everything that had ever flown in two world wars there. Stood beside a Lancaster. It was enormous. Really impressive place.

Posted by: javems at March 26, 2024 11:24 PM (pRQ2K)

186 IIRC, there were more B-24s built than B-17s but the B-17 got the glory.
Posted by: Beartooth

IIRC, B-24 had bigger payload and Willow Run was cranking them out like Henry Ford Model Ts, but, B-17 could take more hits.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 26, 2024 11:24 PM (cOq4q)

187 My late father was a navigator on an escort carrier in the Pacific Theater, and most of his service involved ferrying either USN or USMC squadrons and their craft into their respective areas of operation, but to keep the aviators' skills fresh, the carrier would also be used for take-off and landing practice. If you've ever seen that montage of disastrous carrier landings that they seem to recycle for every documentary about WWII in the Pacific, roughly eighty percent of those are from Dad's ship. He often marveled that no one was killed or seriously injured in those crashes, even one where the pilot lurched into the craft ahead of him and his propeller chewed up a good part of the fuselage.

Posted by: John Drake at March 26, 2024 11:24 PM (3Gdb3)

188 Talked with a docent at the Museum of Flight ten years ago. He’d been a ball turret gunner on a B-17. Asked him if he was ever worried about getting killed.
“We were young. Thought we were invincible. Always thought if something is going to happen, it would be the guy or guys in the plane next to us.”
He broke his back bailing out of a burning Fort’ 300 feet over England on his 24th mission.

Posted by: Rex B at March 26, 2024 11:26 PM (5h/8D)

189 Funny, I get to meet a lot of young people who are just dying to be air crew, or pilots. The biggest difference is the number of experts telling us "I'd never allow my kid to do that" or calling them suckers or worse, and I see those every day. Oddly, there were some people saying that in WWII also, and you never see them in the TV specials. Our social media are much more powerful.
Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at March 26, 2024 11:09 PM (zdLoL)

I’m not much for HS graduations - in the grand scheme they are overhyped and overrated. (The biggest day of your life should happen way before - the moment when you discover why you are here.) But I went to my niece’s last year and was pleasantly surprised to see the principal at one point asked all those in the graduating class who had already joined the military to stand and be recognized along with those headed to the service academies.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at March 26, 2024 11:27 PM (8sMut)

190 Definitely different ONT. I've got nothing to contribute, but appreciate the post & comments.
___

We didn't get a hidden music video so here is one following suit.
https://tinyurl.com/2s3f5ap6
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks

Thanks. Appropriate to the topic. From Sun Valley Serenade, 1941. The guy on piano is John Payne, famously Santa's lawyer in Miracle on 34th Street.
___

Time to retire. Steady on, maties.
https://youtu.be/jagJeaLXRRQ

💤

Posted by: mindful webworker - sleepy boy at March 26, 2024 11:28 PM (WY1wZ)

191 158 The B-17s got to the UK first, and were more common amongst the 8th AF there. B-24s arrived later and were based further out from London by then. So for reporters covering the war it was easier with gas rationing to visit the nearer bases, or so I’ve read.

Posted by: Rex B at March 26, 2024 11:12 PM (5h/8D)

LT GEN Jimmy Doolittle, who commanded 8th AF for the last 16 months or so of the war, had been slowly working to make the 8th an all B-17, all P-51, force when the war in Europe ended. Doolittle had Hap Arnold's approval for it. It would have simplified logistics, simplified maintenance and repair work at air depots, and simplified operations.

Posted by: Gref at March 26, 2024 11:28 PM (5fDan)

192 The biggest day of your life should happen way before - the moment when you discover why you are here.

Not everyone receives this luxury.

Posted by: Still have no idea at March 26, 2024 11:29 PM (tczCu)

193 72 P-61 was a three seater.
I think the Avenger was a two seater.

Those were not fighter planes.

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at March 26, 2024 11:30 PM (fvaUq)

194 When "Saving Private Ryan" first came out, I went to a large screen theater in Burbank Ca. to see the film. I was a devote history buff of WWII of the ETO and wanted to see the offering from Mr. Spielberg as I already knew his Dad was WWII but in the Pacific.

A bunch of Vets from that time,( some with their VET Side Caps) probably 12 in all were sitting a couple of rows in front of me.

Let me tell you, on the D-Day landing scene...I heard yelling and cursing and then none of the Vets were sitting up in their chairs I thought it was part of the movie but then I realized they were all under their chairs and still yelling and screaming.

This I witnessed.

How many of these MEN are left?

Posted by: Nightwatch at March 26, 2024 11:30 PM (TDvv2)

195 It would have simplified logistics, simplified maintenance and repair work at air depots, and simplified operations.
Posted by: Gref at March 26, 2024 11:28 PM (5fDan)

General Doolittle had to have something against the B-24

Posted by: Rex B at March 26, 2024 11:32 PM (5h/8D)

196 Boeing will get their mojo back. Just you wait.
Posted by: nurse ratched at March 26, 2024 10:37 PM (giTxN)

I still love the 777 and 787. Awesome planes.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at March 26, 2024 11:32 PM (8sMut)

197 Life question: When did my spam go from "H0T M1LFs 1N Y0UR ARE4 ARE W41TING 4 U!!!!" to

"IT'S TIME TO SCHEDULE YOUR COLONOSCOPY!!"

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 26, 2024 11:32 PM (S6gqv)

198 I still love the 777 and 787. Awesome planes.
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at March 26, 2024 11:32 PM (8sMut)

The no longer manufactured 747 will always be the benchmark for me.

Posted by: polynikes at March 26, 2024 11:35 PM (WmV84)

199 Twenty years ago, I worked in an office in Northbrook, Illinois, a suburb north of Chicago, and a few miles west of Lake Michigan. My office had a window that looked south, where I could see aircraft on the glide path into O'Hare airport.
One day in July, I hear a weird thrumming sound. I got up and looked around, then out my window: and saw three B-17s flying north in formation, on their way to Oshkosh for the EAA fly-in. What a sight! One that I will never forget.
And yes, the B-17, and the B-24 both, were tiny airplanes by today's standards. The balls it took to fly them into deadly combat, time after time ... words fail me. Pray God we'll never have to do it again.

Posted by: Nemo at March 26, 2024 11:36 PM (S6ArX)

200 "Let me tell you, on the D-Day landing scene...I heard yelling and cursing and then none of the Vets were sitting up in their chairs I thought it was part of the movie but then I realized they were all under their chairs and still yelling and screaming.

This I witnessed.

How many of these MEN are left?"
****************
After my dad, a Korean War vet, saw SPR he told us that the combat scenes were realistic but lacked the smell.

Posted by: Cosda at March 26, 2024 11:36 PM (ZqJgk)

201 186 IIRC, there were more B-24s built than B-17s but the B-17 got the glory.
Posted by: Beartooth

IIRC, B-24 had bigger payload and Willow Run was cranking them out like Henry Ford Model Ts, but, B-17 could take more hits.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 26, 2024 11:24 PM (cOq4q)

There were a lot of USAAF B-24s in the Pacific Theater beginning in late'43. Those units got and still get about zero attention or fame. The USN and the Brits used B-24s for very long range convoy air supprt in the Atlantic. The USN also had several patrol squadrons in the Pacific equipped with a naval-ized version of the B-24, designated the PB4Y Privateer.

Posted by: Gref at March 26, 2024 11:36 PM (5fDan)

202 In re the phrase "the Greatest Generation" - my father and all my uncles who had served in WWII (all but one in the Pacific Theater) absolutely despised that term. The way my Dad put it was that they weren't any different from any other generation; they just happened to exist at a moment when an almost un-precedented crisis was taking place, and in response they did what the circumstances called for.

I'll admit I'm biased, obviously, but it always impressed me that these very brave and honorable men were so admirably humble, and never sought any sort of public recognition.

Posted by: John Drake at March 26, 2024 11:36 PM (3Gdb3)

203 72 P-61 was a three seater.
I think the Avenger was a two seater.

Those were not fighter planes.
Posted by: Ray Van Dune at March 26, 2024 11:30 PM (fvaUq)

Avengers had 3 crew.

Posted by: spindrift at March 26, 2024 11:36 PM (1qxHl)

204 "Boeing will get their mojo back. Just you wait."
I'll believe it the day corporate HQ moves back to Seattle.

Posted by: Nemo at March 26, 2024 11:38 PM (S6ArX)

205 Why is it called the Eighth Air Force? What happened to 1-7?

Posted by: Ciampino - an F-14 is as large as a Lancaster bomber at March 26, 2024 11:40 PM (qfLjt)

206 Let me tell you, on the D-Day landing scene...I heard yelling and cursing and then none of the Vets were sitting up in their chairs I thought it was part of the movie but then I realized they were all under their chairs and still yelling and screaming.

This I witnessed.

How many of these MEN are left?

Posted by: Nightwatch at March 26, 2024 11:30 PM (TDvv2)

Not a lot, as Fort Sam Houston National Cemetery can attest. When I was a boy, it extended to the stone walls. Now? It is WAY past that.

Those vets you saw watching Saving Private Ryan and their reaction is why I insist that movie is the closest we mere mortals will get to experiencing D-Day.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at March 26, 2024 11:40 PM (8sMut)

207 Boeing will get their mojo back. Just you wait."
I'll believe it the day corporate HQ moves back to Seattle.
Posted by: Nemo at March 26, 2024 11:38 PM (S6ArX)

Seattle has to get their mojo back first.

Posted by: polynikes at March 26, 2024 11:40 PM (WmV84)

208 How would the Red Baron have fared in WWII, do you think?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at March 26, 2024 11:09 PM (9yWhg)

He would have shot down 156 aircraft on the Eastern Front and then died when his parachute failed to deploy after an engine failure.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 26, 2024 11:41 PM (cw9q7)

209 The no longer manufactured 747 will always be the benchmark for me.
Posted by: polynikes at March 26, 2024 11:35 PM (WmV84)

I was crushed when I heard the announcement that they would no longer be built. The 747 is a legend FOREVER.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at March 26, 2024 11:41 PM (8sMut)

210 Why is it called the Eighth Air Force? What happened to 1-7?
Posted by: Ciampino - an F-14 is as large as a Lancaster bomber at March 26, 2024 11:40 PM (qfLjt)
====
Have you ever been in a building with no 13th floor?

Posted by: San Franpsycho at March 26, 2024 11:44 PM (RIvkX)

211 Why is it called the Eighth Air Force? What happened to 1-7?
Posted by: Ciampino - an F-14 is as large as a Lancaster bomber at March 26, 2024 11:40 PM (qfLjt)

The US lost them to Nazi Germany in an epic fortnight of gambling between Cordell Hull and Martin Bormann in Monaco in April 1941.

This was later reprised on a much smaller scale in Ian Fleming's first Bond novel "Casino Royale".

Posted by: spindrift at March 26, 2024 11:44 PM (1qxHl)

212 Band of Brothers may just have been that rare bit of real excellence that everything since has failed to emulate.

Posted by: spindrift at March 26, 2024 10:57 PM (1qxHl)

It also was nearly 25 years ago and that kind of realism and show format was very new. It also had the benefit of being extremely well done.

Posted by: Pete Bog at March 26, 2024 11:45 PM (FL1z8)

213 202 In re the phrase "the Greatest Generation" - my father and all my uncles who had served in WWII (all but one in the Pacific Theater) absolutely despised that term. The way my Dad put it was that they weren't any different from any other generation; they just happened to exist at a moment when an almost un-precedented crisis was taking place, and in response they did what the circumstances called

I never cared for that phrase either. I like what your father said. But “the greatest generation” to me implied everyone before or after isn’t up to snuff. What about those who faced, say, the Civil War? Or those constantly heading ever westward?

Yes, as I stated elsewhere, I have my doubts about the current crop. But I hold open the possibility that people will step up their game when called upon.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at March 26, 2024 11:47 PM (8sMut)

214 Top WW2 German aces: (Not sure how this will look)

Erich “Bubi” Hartmann – 352 kills
Gerhard “Gerd” Barkhorn – 301 kills
Gunther Rall – 275 kills
Otto Kittel – 267 kills
Wilhelm “Willie” Batz – 237 kills
Erich Rudorffer – 222 kills
Heinrich Bär – 220 kills
Hemann Graf – 212 kills

Posted by: javems at March 26, 2024 11:48 PM (pRQ2K)

215 In other news, I decided to watch the video for Van Halen's "Jump" and got an ad for Oil of Olay for my troubles. That seems like some weird marketing.
--
They figure if you're looking that up you're probably old AF and need wrinkle cream. A tad insulting but not necessarily off the mark.
Posted by: Don't need the wrinkle cream just yet at March 26, 2024 11:17

We're 40 years away from "Jump"; 40 years back from "Jump" the planes we're talking about were in action.

Posted by: Chuck C at March 26, 2024 11:49 PM (yOPBE)

216 >>> Those vets you saw watching Saving Private Ryan and their reaction is why I insist that movie is the closest we mere mortals will get to experiencing D-Day.
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33

FWIW, Colin Powell had some comments back when it was in theatres - D-Day Sucked (I may have made that part up... but it would suck),
the German radio/radar and little bridge - fuck attacking the radar, and blow that shitty little bridge.

That was my three take aways- D-day would suck ass, would rather frag the LT than attack the radar, and just blow the bridge and solve that problem. The last true were stupid Hollywood.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 26, 2024 11:49 PM (cOq4q)

217 WW2 aviation is still an interest of mine. It started young for me (grandfather fought and my father is a retired civilian pilot). I have many memories of going to the local airport for airshows (a F-14 on full AB is awesome). Built plenty of models as a kid, too, including a B-17 and taking scissors to a ME-109 wing and gluing on painted red cotton balls for the flames).

Posted by: Mainah at March 26, 2024 11:50 PM (7KEgI)

218 "H0T M1LFs 1N Y0UR ARE4 ARE W41TING 4 U!!!!" to
"IT'S TIME TO SCHEDULE YOUR COLONOSCOPY!!"
Posted by: Tom Servo
-----------------
Pleased to make your acquaintance.

Posted by: Cologuard, not just a box at March 26, 2024 11:51 PM (41CYW)

219 I guess these guys skipped Bertrand Russell's advice to just invite Hitler to dinner if he invaded:

In the letter, written during the time Hitler was stripping German Jews of their rights, sending political prisoners to the brutal Dachau concentration camp and building a huge military machine, Russell said he saw no value in engaging the country in war.

"We may win or we may lose," he wrote. "If we lose obviously no good has been done. If we win we shall inevitably during the struggle acquire their bad qualities and the world at the end will be no better off than if we had lost."

https://tinyurl.com/2k8dfzys

Posted by: KT at March 26, 2024 11:54 PM (rrtZS)

220 The sole uncle I had who served in the European Theater (where he found himself drawn into the Battle of the Bulge and other similarly ghastly events) despised Patton in general and particularly for the slapping incident. He rarely talked about his combat experiences, but he never hesitated to talk about that ... I won't use the term that he employed ... that beat up two "shell-shocked men" in their hospital beds.

There's no doubt that Patton's leadership and innovative strategy and tactics were a big factor in bringing the war to a successful conclusion, but that doesn't erase the contempt that my uncle and many others had for what they considered a cowardly assault on lower-ranking hospital patients with PTSD.

Posted by: John Drake at March 26, 2024 11:54 PM (3Gdb3)

221 I once witnessed a flyover of 5 bombers flying abreast: a B-29, an Avro Lancaster, a B-17, a B-25 Mitchell, and a DH-98 Mosquito. The B-29 was by far the biggest plane, but the Lancaster dwarfed the B-17. The Lancaster's bomb bay was absolutely ginormous, which explains why it could drop Tall Boys and Grand Slams. For me, the Mosquito was the most impressive plane, given that it could fly to Berlin, drop 4,000 lb of bombs and fly back, with a crew of only 2 and it didn't need any defensive armament. Also, it was by far the most beautiful of the 5 bombers.

Posted by: MichiCanuck at March 26, 2024 11:56 PM (QnN8/)

222 There was that, they converted into the most heinous gun ship A-26 Douglas Invader in WWII with 20 mm main cannons X 2 and Quad 50's on the nose.

Ever the terminal "death punch" for anyone on the ground.

Posted by: Nightwatch at March 26, 2024 11:56 PM (TDvv2)

223 1935, 36, whatevs. Yeah, the UK signed on but didn't share a border with the Reich. Then there's that M:unchen business....

Posted by: SFGoth at March 26, 2024 11:58 PM (KAi1n)

224 There goes the siren that warns of the air raid
There comes the sound of the guns sending flak
Out for the scramble we've got to get airborne
Got to get up for the coming attack

Jump in the cockpit and start up the engines
Remove all the wheel blocks
There's no time to waste
Gathering speed as we head down the runway
Got to get airborne before it's too late

Running, scrambling, flying
Rolling, turning, diving
Going in again
Running, scrambling, flying
Rolling, turning, diving

Run, live to fly, fly to live, do or die
Won't you run, live to fly, fly to live, aces high

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at March 27, 2024 12:03 AM (8sMut)

225 Move in to fire at the mainstream of bombers
Let off a sharp burst and then turn away
Roll over, spin round to come in behind them
Move to their blindsides and firing again

Bandits at 8 o'clock move in behind us
Ten ME-109s out of the sun
Ascending and turning our Spitfires to face them
Heading straight for them I press down my guns

Rolling, turning, diving
Rolling, turning, diving
Going in again
Rolling, turning, diving
Rolling, turning, diving

Run, live to fly, fly to live, do or die
Won't you run, live to fly, fly to live, aces high

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at March 27, 2024 12:04 AM (8sMut)

226 Iron Maiden’s “Aces High”, perhaps my fave Maiden song…

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at March 27, 2024 12:04 AM (8sMut)

227 I once witnessed a flyover of 5 bombers flying abreast: a B-29, an Avro Lancaster, a B-17, a B-25 Mitchell, and a DH-98 Mosquito. The B-29 was by far the biggest plane, but the Lancaster dwarfed the B-17. The Lancaster's bomb bay was absolutely ginormous, which explains why it could drop Tall Boys and Grand Slams. For me, the Mosquito was the most impressive plane, given that it could fly to Berlin, drop 4,000 lb of bombs and fly back, with a crew of only 2 and it didn't need any defensive armament. Also, it was by far the most beautiful of the 5 bombers.
Posted by: MichiCanuck at March 26, 2024 11:56 PM (QnN8/).

I saw something very much like this at a Hamilton (Ontario) air show ages ago.

I think there was a B-24 in the mix too, though; I'd have to dig up the photos.

But the Mosquito remains the all-time favo(u)rite. Blame it on Tintin.

Posted by: spindrift at March 27, 2024 12:06 AM (1qxHl)

228 Yea, B17s were amazingly rugged. I had a book in my teen years about the plane and it had a whole section of photographs showing planes that had been severely shot up and still made it back to Britain. Bullet holes were the price of entry. Photos like you have of tails almost severed and other equally severe damage was common.

Posted by: OnPoint at March 27, 2024 12:09 AM (QfdDw)

229 I was an AF C-130 Navigator in the '80s. On rotation, we flew from Little Rock AFB to Mildenhall AFB, UK. All my equipment worked, the sky was clear and all was well. Coming home three months later, a different story. Overcast the entire route so no celestial navigation, the electric compasses were off of each other by 10-15 degrees, doppler inop and only one Omega Station on line. I ended up having to rely on the whiskey compass and using pressure changes to get lines of positions. It was a bitch. AND I still think I had it easier than your average WWII nav crossing the pond.

Posted by: JML at March 27, 2024 12:11 AM (wFFVS)

230 >>> 101 OK, can somebody explain this to me : "Kind-hearted woman nurses stricken 'baby hedgehog' overnight only to discover it was a fluffy hat bobble when she took it to an animal hospital"....
Posted by: runner at March 26, 2024 10:35 PM (V13WU)

*shifty eyes*

Posted by: alcohol at March 27, 2024 12:14 AM (llON8)

231 It still bugs me that in the Jump video, Alex's drums out of the bridge don't synchronize with the actual song. At. All.

Loose shit.

Maybe I need some wrinkle cream.

Posted by: spindrift at March 27, 2024 12:17 AM (1qxHl)

232 Fun fact - when they shot Dr Strangelove, they created the interior of the plane from scratch based on innuendo and guesswork. Then the military panicked because it was so close to accurate, they thought that classified material had leaked out.

Posted by: DudeAbiding at March 27, 2024 12:19 AM (lCHt6)

233 I think the Avenger was a two seater.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at March 26, 2024 10:24 PM (RUMEY)

Two-seater, yes. But the second guy was behind the first, in a separate cockpit (so no grabbing the other guy's arm), and he wasn't a copilot.

Posted by: GWB at March 27, 2024 12:19 AM (69JzL)

234 201 That was my father VPB-124 out of Okinawa in the PB4Y-2. Lost a third of his squadron in 6 weeks.
I took him to see the movie Pearl Harbor and he shifted in his seat very uncomfortably during the Doolittle raid sequence.
The secrets those guys kept in this age of emotional diarrhea

Posted by: MAxIE at March 27, 2024 12:22 AM (twxj3)

235 There's a B-17 at the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinnville, OR. I looked at the tail gunner position and thought that Frodo Baggins would feel claustrophobic sitting there.

Posted by: PabloD at March 27, 2024 12:22 AM (OvZId)

236 I had thought reagan was the anti-christ old white horse riding 666 ;but now I think its trump. Every time dump gets in trouble beelzebub comes and rescues him. I didn't think he had a soul to sell to the devil!

Posted by: raimondo at March 27, 2024 12:22 AM (eSDkM)

237 Maybe I need some wrinkle cream.
Posted by: spindrift
------------
Let's not stop there. Toss in some Brylcreem and some Hai Karate.

Posted by: Some commercials were great at March 27, 2024 12:24 AM (41CYW)

238 Let's not stop there. Toss in some Brylcreem and some Hai Karate.
Posted by: Some commercials were great at March 27, 2024 12:24 AM (41CYW)

raimondo's brain is as smooth as a baby's bum. No wrinkle cream for him!

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 27, 2024 12:27 AM (tkR6S)

239 Boeing just pulled a classic corporate America move and promoted a woman to clean up its mess

https://tinyurl.com/4c65jzaw

Posted by: Ciampino - from fryingpan to fire? at March 27, 2024 12:29 AM (qfLjt)

240 I got me the post truth era blues.

https://tinyurl.com/mv2fzrvv

Posted by: Sock Monkey * Unsynchronized at March 27, 2024 12:29 AM (JUH00)

241 Posted by: raimondo

We can give you penicillin, but at this stage of brain-rot, you should really be asking "into which incinerator will I let my valuable corpse be burned ... I could for once do something useful, and, with all the carbon I've bottled up in my entire life, power someone's vacuum cleaner for 15.4 seconds"

Posted by: spindrift at March 27, 2024 12:31 AM (1qxHl)

242 Nice ONT! Thanks for stepping up, Roger!

Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024 12:31 AM (njWTi)

243 raimondo's brain is as smooth as a baby's bum. No wrinkle cream for him!
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon
--------------
I see what you did there.

Posted by: scampydog at March 27, 2024 12:32 AM (41CYW)

244 Soylent groin

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 27, 2024 12:32 AM (63Dwl)

245 I don't even know what this means. I didn't know the Fed is a business?
Federal Reserve posts record $114.3 BILLION loss in 2023 after soaring interest rates upended the body's finances

https://mol.im/a/13241913

Posted by: Ciampino - from frying pan to fire? at March 27, 2024 12:32 AM (qfLjt)

246 Oh, rainmandodo is now pretending to be Christian? And clutching imaginary pearls over de debbil's horrible deeds.

It is to laugh!

Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024 12:34 AM (njWTi)

247 Well I blame a bloody great ship ramming it. All the experts who haven't even seen it, just like 9/11.
Engineers blame $3m structural 'flaw' for Baltimore's Francis Scott Key bridge collapsing - and tens of thousands of bridges across US could also have fault

https://mol.im/a/13240663

Posted by: Ciampino - from frying pan to fire at March 27, 2024 12:35 AM (qfLjt)

248 raimondo's brain is as smooth as a baby's bum. No wrinkle cream for him!
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 27, 2024 12:27 AM (tkR6S)

---------

Dude is all limbic system.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at March 27, 2024 12:36 AM (bo7UB)

249 Boeing just pulled a classic corporate America move and promoted a woman to clean up its mess

https://tinyurl.com/4c65jzaw
Posted by: Ciampino - from fryingpan to fire? at March 27, 2024 12:29 AM (qfLjt)

She is cuter than your average Gadarene swine.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 27, 2024 12:36 AM (tkR6S)

250 239 Boeing just pulled a classic corporate America move and promoted a woman to clean up its mess

----------

Any word on whether she's a lesbian? Because what Boeing really needs right now is a lesbian at the helm.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at March 27, 2024 12:37 AM (bo7UB)

251 spindrift - nice

Somebody get our pet troll some burn cream.

Posted by: Sock Monkey * Unsynchronized at March 27, 2024 12:38 AM (JUH00)

252 250 239 Boeing just pulled a classic corporate America move and promoted a woman to clean up its mess

----------

Any word on whether she's a lesbian? Because what Boeing really needs right now is a lesbian at the helm.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at March 27, 2024 12:37 AM (bo7UB)

That's no good; she'll spend all her time out of the cockpit and into the carpet.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at March 27, 2024 12:38 AM (ynpvh)

253 raimondo gets his theology from Rob Reiner.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at March 27, 2024 12:39 AM (bo7UB)

254 ...Because what Boeing really needs right now is a lesbian at the helm. Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at March 27, 2024 12:37 AM (bo7UB)

Make her Gay, and Lame.

Gotta stick to the script, dontchaknow.

*pours bourbon* ONT Greetings, Horde. Cheers!

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at March 27, 2024 12:42 AM (e6UQI)

255 She is cuter than your average Gadarene swine.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon
----------------
Had to look that G word up. Nice use there, AOP. Dog looked up wondering what was so funny.

Posted by: scampydog at March 27, 2024 12:42 AM (41CYW)

256 @246 I don't pretend close to what most here pretend.

Posted by: raimondo at March 27, 2024 12:44 AM (eSDkM)

257 Well I blame a bloody great ship ramming it. All the experts who haven't even seen it, just like 9/11.
Engineers blame $3m structural 'flaw' for Baltimore's Francis Scott Key bridge collapsing - and tens of thousands of bridges across US could also have fault

https://mol.im/a/13240663
Posted by: Ciampino - from frying pan to fire at March 27, 2024 12:35 AM (qfLjt)

Curious, ain't it, how every single one of those "engineers" they quote by name has an islamic name? Every one. Methinks they doth protest too much.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 27, 2024 12:44 AM (tkR6S)

258 Boeing will get their mojo back. Just you wait

That ship has sailed. GM will never be the king of cars again, and North American Aviation will never be world leaders. The management in those days got their jobs by being the best and most knowledgeable people in their fields. Management these days get their jobs by either being someone's kid or mastering the art of lying constantly with a straight face and single mindedly focusing on what's best for them personally.

Posted by: azjaeger at March 27, 2024 12:45 AM (3/XaG)

259 raimondo gets his theology from Rob Reiner.
Posted by: Cicero
------

"Don't be hollerin' at him, will ya, you'll give him a mental sterosis."

- Archie Bunker.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 27, 2024 12:46 AM (XeU6L)

260 239 Boeing just pulled a classic corporate America move and promoted a woman to clean up its mess

https://tinyurl.com/4c65jzaw
Posted by: Ciampino - from fryingpan to fire? at March 27, 2024 12:29 AM (qfLjt)

Problem: male MBAs in charge of an engineering firm
Solution: female MBAs in charge of an engineering firm

You people are really awfully terribly cynical.

Posted by: spindrift at March 27, 2024 12:46 AM (1qxHl)

261 I don't pretend close to what most here pretend.

Damn, an actual rejoinder. We're used to the usual drop of the trou, take a dump and exit. Don't forget to wipe on your way out.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 27, 2024 12:47 AM (V8he0)

262 Who's your mom doing tonight, raimondo?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at March 27, 2024 12:48 AM (bo7UB)

263 Who's your mom doing tonight, raimondo?
Posted by: Cicero
----
'Uncle' John would be my guess.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 27, 2024 12:50 AM (XeU6L)

264 Trailer - Reunion of Giants Documentary
REUNION of GIANTS: The Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum's Avro Lancaster, VeRA, flew from Hamilton, Ontario to meet her British counterpart, Thumper—the only other surviving flight worthy Lancaster bomber in the world—the RAF Battle of Britain Memorial Flight's (BBMF) Lancaster in England. See the trailer for the documentary coming Fall 2015. [3:19 minutes]
https://tinyurl.com/muzktbdw

Meeting of the last two airworthy Lancasters - ‘Thumper’ meets Vera [RAF YT Channel]
Although 7,377 Lancaster aircraft were produced between 1941 and 1946, only two remain airworthy. One (a Mk 1 nicknamed ‘Thumper’

is maintained by the RAF’s Battle of Britain Memorial Flight (BBMF), and the other by the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum (CWHM).

These classic aircraft came together for the first time as CWHM’s ‘Vera’ (named for its identification markings V-RA), a Mk X Lancaster arrived in England after a transatlantic flight from its home in Ontario, Canada for the start of a tour which will see the two Lancasters flying together to please crowds at 60 venues across the UK.
https://tinyurl.com/5yxwjku8

Posted by: andycanuck (2yu8s) at March 27, 2024 12:50 AM (2yu8s)

265 256 We get it. You are excited that the bartender stirred your sarsaparilla with his special straw.

Posted by: scampydog at March 27, 2024 12:51 AM (41CYW)

266 BOEING...

Going to the mud puddle of Marxist/Commie winkie winkie with OBAMA's Minions.

We warned ya...

Posted by: Nightwatch at March 27, 2024 12:51 AM (TDvv2)

267 Well, I got the overdrive working on the Lark, by dint of wiring in a manual switch to emulate the grounding contact in the governor, which is not working. I can drive the car that way, no problem; it was a common trick, back in the day, to put the overdrive under manual control. Seems that the plastic worm gear on the tailshaft which drive both the speedometer cable and the overdrive governor have been stripped clean. Transmission will have to come out and have new worm gears installed. Metal ones.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 27, 2024 12:52 AM (tkR6S)

268 I put another motor on pellet stove auger-- so far, so good. It's been working now for 2 hours.

*knocks on wood*

Can barely move now, so cramped & stiff from contorting to work on that blasted thing

Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024 12:56 AM (njWTi)

269 Transmission will have to come out and have new worm gears installed. Metal ones.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon
---------------
Didn't you blow a transmission last year on a Suburban or something? You can fix stuff, but I'm beginning to think the dark cloud might have you on speed dial.

Posted by: scampydog at March 27, 2024 12:56 AM (41CYW)

270 These classic aircraft came together for the first time as CWHM’s ‘Vera’ (named for its identification markings V-RA), a Mk X Lancaster arrived in England after a transatlantic flight from its home in Ontario, Canada for the start of a tour which will see the two Lancasters flying together to please crowds at 60 venues across the UK.
https://tinyurl.com/5yxwjku8
Posted by: andycanuck (2yu8s) at March 27, 2024 12:50 AM (2yu8s)

There is a Lanc at the Nanton Air Museum in Nanton, Alberta, that is not airworthy, but intact, and the engines can be run. It probably could be restored to airworthiness, if money could be found to do it.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 27, 2024 12:56 AM (tkR6S)

271 Yeah

The BULL DYKE will fix this sure enough...SNORT SNORT.

Rainbow Flags all along the Lake Washington shoreline.

Posted by: Nightwatch at March 27, 2024 12:57 AM (TDvv2)

272 AOP - Is Borg-Warner?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 27, 2024 12:57 AM (XeU6L)

273 Roger Ball, thanks for a really cool ONT. Also so many great stories/knowledge in the comments. Shanghai and Hong Kong are lighting up my inbox. Time to work. Catch y'all later.

Posted by: scampydog at March 27, 2024 01:01 AM (41CYW)

274 2024

Hell a year be coming...hell a year.

Night Horde...sleep the sleep.

Posted by: Nightwatch at March 27, 2024 01:02 AM (TDvv2)

275 Didn't you blow a transmission last year on a Suburban or something? You can fix stuff, but I'm beginning to think the dark cloud might have you on speed dial.
Posted by: scampydog at March 27, 2024 12:56 AM (41CYW)

I did, that was bad luck. The Lark transmission was an upgrade from a straight 3-speed to a 3-speed with overdrive. It was a used transmission that bench-checked OK, and taking the top cover off revealed the gears to be in as-new condition, nary a chip. I never thought to check on the tailshaft worm gears, as I had never even heard of plastic ones being used. Any I have ever seen before have been steel. Turns out they used plastic gears for a few months in 1959 models, and they proved to be troublesome, so much so that they did a recall, and replaced all the suspect transmissions. Could be I got one of the replaced transmissions. I will be able to fix it, and cheaply, too.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 27, 2024 01:03 AM (tkR6S)

276 AOP - Is Borg-Warner?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 27, 2024 12:57 AM (XeU6L)

It is. A model T-96, with an R-10 overdrive unit. Rambler used them, so did Jeep and Studebaker. OK with a small six, but a big six or and V8 will trash them. I have scads of parts for them.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 27, 2024 01:05 AM (tkR6S)

277 AOP.

If you come across a Borg with a Seven of Nine installation, will you let me know? I'll be a cash buyer for one of those!

/s

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at March 27, 2024 01:14 AM (e6UQI)

278 If you come across a Borg with a Seven of Nine installation, will you let me know? I'll be a cash buyer for one of those!

/s

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX
Posted by: Jim at March 27, 2024 01:14 AM (e6UQI)

That was a Jheri Ryan, right?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 27, 2024 01:15 AM (tkR6S)

279 ...That was a Jheri Ryan, right? Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 27, 2024 01:15 AM (tkR6S)

Yep, and in her mechanical prime.

But hell. By now she might be a High Mileage Unit, with all that entails.

Buyer beware!

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at March 27, 2024 01:22 AM (e6UQI)

280 I was able to go inside '9-0-9' when it was at Lakefront Airport in New Orleans for an air show presented by the CONFEDERATE Air Force (remember them?). The cramped space amazed me, 'cos I always thought of the 17 as a big plane. Yeah - on the outside. The gunners' windows were staggered 'cos if they'd been back-to-back, the gunners would have gotten in each others' way. The cockpit was even tighter, and I never got to see the spaces for the bombardier / nose gunner 'cos the cockpit area was flagged off. We won't see its like again ...

Posted by: Dr_No at March 27, 2024 01:28 AM (ayRl+)

281 You wanna read about a "tight" cockpit, read some on the U-2 spyplane, in that regard.

Once the canopy was ejected, the pilot's Space Suit would inflate even more than it's normal "inflated" state at altitude. And that would cause the suit to snag on the cockpit sides if the seat was fired, normally.

Read the tale of how Gary Francis Powers had to wriggle his way free, after being partially ejected, just by the force of the cockpit pressure being vented in a nano-second.

Less room in there than a P-51 Mustang. FAR less room than a P-47 Thunderbolt.

I've driven an MG Midget, and that's the closest analog I'm likely to know.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at March 27, 2024 01:35 AM (e6UQI)

282 But hell. By now she might be a High Mileage Unit, with all that entails.
------

Stripped tailshaft gear?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 27, 2024 01:37 AM (XeU6L)

283
Read the tale of how Gary Francis Powers had to wriggle his way free, after being partially ejected, just by the force of the cockpit pressure being vented in a nano-second.
------

Things got worse when I landed.

Posted by: Gary at March 27, 2024 01:38 AM (XeU6L)

284 ...Things got worse when I landed. Posted by: Gary at March 27, 2024 01:38 AM (XeU6L)

And got terminally worse, when you flew a News/Traffic helicopter in the Los Angeles TV/radio market.

Seven ways to Sunday. Ring any bells?

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at March 27, 2024 01:40 AM (e6UQI)

285 Well, time for me to hit the sack. Night, Horde.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 27, 2024 01:47 AM (tkR6S)

286
Saw a young Jeri Ryan on an episode of Matlock the other day. She was a bad girl. A murderess in fact.

Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at March 27, 2024 01:48 AM (w6EFb)

287 ...Stripped tailshaft gear? Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 27, 2024 01:37 AM (XeU6L)

HA!

...aside, you'd mentioned something about Lightning Arrestors for my TV/HAM/CB/Weather tower?

Frustration. Can you imagine, there is NOT a surviving, remaining, OPEN Ham Radio RETAILER in the Houston market? Everything is online now, all storefront has been abandoned.

The ONE "CB Shop" is a converted cargo trailer in a Truck Stop parking lot in the Truck Sales district.

"Lightning Arrestors". Ain't they the Rapid Response Blitzengruppen of the DOJ Lawfare Division?

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at March 27, 2024 01:48 AM (e6UQI)

288 Interesting tidbit about Gary Powers and the U2 - there was a lot of speculation at the time from those in the know and later on by Cold War historians, that the U2 was designed to self-destruct if the pilot attempted to eject, and that the mechanism had failed (maybe from the missile damage?), leading to Powers being captured rather than wafting down from the skies in a multitude of cinders.

Barry Goldwater was especially adamant about this being the case. There was also quite an uproar that Powers didn't use the cyanide needle concealed in a hollowed-out coin that was to be taken if capture seemed imminent.

Posted by: John Drake at March 27, 2024 02:01 AM (3Gdb3)

289 Yay, 3 hours and counting... hope this latest little motor lasts at least until heating season is done.

Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024 02:02 AM (njWTi)

290 https://tinyurl.com/4j343jkt
20 Tweets from Bad Blue

Posted by: Skip at March 27, 2024 02:12 AM (fwDg9)

291 Memories of sitting in a tiny shack during a Summer afternoon logging any passing aircraft for the Civil Defense Corps. One plane in particular you always recognized but seldom saw was the B36, by it's resonant drone, nothing else sounded like it.

Posted by: irongrampa at March 27, 2024 02:12 AM (KATBx)

292 >> By now she might be a High Mileage Unit, with all that entails.

While I haven't watched the latest, but I'm going to (Star Trek went woke crap, but I've heard some good things about the last season of Picard).

Anyway, it ended with Seven of Nine being made Captain of the latest and greatest Enterprise. Capt. Seven of Nine, of the USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-G.

Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at March 27, 2024 02:21 AM (w6EFb)

293 20 Tweets from Bad Blue

#19 Bill Gates. TFG.

Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 27, 2024 02:47 AM (sAmhv)

294 #18

LOL! Muslims vs. Karens!!

Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 27, 2024 02:48 AM (sAmhv)

295
Posted by: JQ

============

JQ, whatchoo up to?

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at March 27, 2024 02:48 AM (wjjYr)

296 Posted by: Blonde Morticia
--------

Heh. Enjoying the fruits of my labor! (namely: heat! the house got a bit chilly over the last couple days)

How are you tonight? Well, I hope. And warm enough!

Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024 02:53 AM (njWTi)

297 #18

LOL! Muslims vs. Karens!!
Posted by: Puddleglum
---------

Yeah, I LMAO'd at that, too! Haw, haw, and muzz looked so confused. Karen DARED to enter! Oh, the humanity...

Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024 02:56 AM (njWTi)

298 #5: Or.

It was an accident. Not everything is a conspiracy.

Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 27, 2024 02:59 AM (sAmhv)

299 Not everything is a conspiracy.
Posted by: Puddleglum
------

True.

But the way things have been going, who can be blamed for believing the worst?

Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024 03:01 AM (njWTi)

300 Bonus Blue:

That 'Misinformation Expert' that Greenwald was X'ing about. She has the 'look'. All leftist totalitarians have that 'look'. If Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged described people like this perfectly. I'd try to find it, but the book is about 5000 pages too long and I'm not sure where in the story that scene was. Rand really needed an editor. The 'Look', that smug, ugly, hateful, look, that would drop you in a gas chamber without second thought, due to the Greater Good. Even that name. Kate Starbird. It's something out of a Dystopian novel.

Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 27, 2024 03:07 AM (sAmhv)

301 Morning to all the insomaniacals! JQ, how's the house -- you got your heat working again?

Woke up early again, though I can't blame Stirling the big black cat this time. When I finally gave up trying to go back to sleep, I called him, and he trilled and leaped up to sit on me and be petted, our usual morning routine. As for little Dagny La Siberienne, she just turned two years old yesterday. Miss Linda sent a couple of nice pics of her to her breeder; I'll load them onto my computer and send them to KT for the Pet Thread. That kitten has come a long way since her first days with me.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at March 27, 2024 03:09 AM (omVj0)

302 I get where Lara Logan is going. I do. I even agree to an extent. I employ a one-week (maybe 2-week) rule and see what happens.

Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 27, 2024 03:11 AM (sAmhv)

303 My father left Harvard to sign up for Navy flight trainining in WWII. He was scrubbed for a vision defect, and shifted to Merchant Marine officer training, served for three years in every naval theater.

Posted by: Ordinary American at March 27, 2024 03:12 AM (pYac8)

304 Mornin' Wolfus!

Yes, got the heater working again. Glad I keep spare motors handy. Guess the last one was a dud, I tore the whole feed section apart and couldn't find any other likely problem.

*shrug*

Whatever. My whole body aches now, not much space to work in, behind the unit.

Glad you & kittehs are well!

Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024 03:15 AM (njWTi)

305 I have no idea why my father was not in the service in WWII. He had just turned 35 when we entered the war, and was an enthusiastic amateur tennis player, thus in good health. I suspect his work as a bookkeeper for a local fertilizer company might well have exempted him as working for an essential industry.

My mother was 25 at the time of Pearl Harbor, and had been working as a registered nurse for a few years. I guess there was not the same pressure on women to volunteer as on men. And her Stateside nursing work would have been pretty essential too. (I found out recently that after she graduated from nursing school, around '37 or '38, she was asked to come back and teach new students about communicable diseases. How cool is that?)

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at March 27, 2024 03:20 AM (omVj0)

306 the book is about 5000 pages too long and I'm not sure where in the story that scene was. Rand really needed an editor.
------

I confess to skipping past pages and pages of lengthy speeches.

Yeah, Ayn, we 'get it'-- could've said all that in many fewer words, though. LOL

Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024 03:22 AM (njWTi)

307 Yes, got the heater working again. Glad I keep spare motors handy. Guess the last one was a dud, I tore the whole feed section apart and couldn't find any other likely problem.

*shrug*

Whatever. My whole body aches now, not much space to work in, behind the unit.

Glad you & kittehs are well!
Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024

***
There's that can-do attitude! "Use it up, wear it out; make it do or do without." Some ibuprofen should help with the aches and pains, I hope.

Yeah, I'm up early, but I planned to work out this am. 'Tis 62 now with the humidity starting to come up, but the wind is low.

And today is First Payday (SS)!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at March 27, 2024 03:24 AM (omVj0)

308 Damn, she's 2?

Posted by: SFGoth at March 27, 2024 03:25 AM (KAi1n)

309 And today is First Payday (SS)!
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius
---------

Woo Hoo!!!! Get back some of that stolen $$$$!!!

Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024 03:28 AM (njWTi)

310 A new house listing has just popped up on Realtor in Evansville, and I'm puzzled. Asking price is $115K, yet the listing indicates the property tax figure is $393 a *month* -- 4% of the home price. Other listings for houses of the same basic size and price are $50 to $70 a month, < 1% of the price. What gives? This one is no super-showplace. Could it be the neighborhood?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at March 27, 2024 03:29 AM (omVj0)

311 My grandfather didn't serve in WWII but he did work in three different steel mills in Youngstown and New Castle (Ohio and PA). There was an obvious shortage of men so he was busy. He did have a draft card but his number was never called. Enola Gay and Bockcar ended the war. Thankfully.

Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 27, 2024 03:31 AM (sAmhv)

312 Damn, she's 2?
Posted by: SFGoth at March 27, 2024

***
Yep; born in March of '22. I adopted her in September, though. Big Stirling is only two weeks (?) older, but I adopted him at three months of age, in June.

They're both healthy, smart, good-looking, and good-natured. Now that they have calmed down from their Crazy Kitten Days, they're easy to live with.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at March 27, 2024 03:32 AM (omVj0)

313 Bad Blue Bonus:

Columbia had diplomatic relations with Israel?

Uh, ok.

Bye.

Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 27, 2024 03:35 AM (sAmhv)

314 My grandfather didn't serve in WWII but he did work in three different steel mills in Youngstown and New Castle (Ohio and PA). There was an obvious shortage of men so he was busy. He did have a draft card but his number was never called. Enola Gay and Bockcar ended the war. Thankfully.
Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 27, 2024

***
My regular mechanic's father, age 99 now, was in combat in the Pacific. In the summer of '45 it was common knowledge there probably was going to be an invasion of the Japanese home islands, and everybody was terrified, knowing their chances of surviving that were nil. With the news about the bombs and Japan's surrender, well, you can imagine the joy and relief he and his mates felt.

The Nat'l WWII Museum is always asking him to come down and talk to the visitors about his experiences.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at March 27, 2024 03:36 AM (omVj0)

315
Like I said, I gave up on Star Trek after Enterprise, you know, with Captain Archer, a prequel of the TOS. They ruined it. But a Moron in good standing, Berzerker, said the last season of Picard was good. It had a "band getting back together" theme. Old Picard and some others from Voyager were included, including Seven of Nine.

Anyway, here's the scene where an old Tuvok from Voyager, apparently a Captain himself, tells Seven here resignation is denied, and she's the Captain of the new Enterprise:
https://tinyurl.com/24tn7vse

"Resignation denied, Captain."

Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at March 27, 2024 03:37 AM (w6EFb)

316 Dad's brother was 17yrs older than Dad, served in WWII while Dad was a kid. Headstone reads:
T SGT
315 AIR SVC GP AAF

This uncle died in a car wreck, age 40, before I was born, so I never met him.

Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024 03:39 AM (njWTi)

317 And then the final scene of the Picard series:
https://tinyurl.com/23rjgwx7

That's Admiral Crusher and Admiral Picard there. The young buck is their son. A young Crusher his name is. But he's no Wesley, actually has some testosterone in him.

Anyway, there is the final scene. Picard Jr, gets posted to the latest and greatest Enterprise, under Captain Seven of Nine.

Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at March 27, 2024 03:41 AM (w6EFb)

318 Uncle served in CBI-- China, Burma, India Theater.

Mom's stepfather was also there, at that time, regular army 'SFC'. He was working on the Stillwell Road, while uncle was flying "over the hump" in the meantime.

Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024 03:44 AM (njWTi)

319
At the end, Capt. Seven's #1 and Picard, Jr. remind her that captains of starships named Enterprise have a long and storied history of clever command catch phrases. You know, "Engage!", and "Make it so!"

Captain Seven hesitates at that for a moment, then gets a wry smile. We don't know what her go order phrase is, but we see the latest and greatest Enterprise, NCC-1701-G warp off into the sunset.

Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at March 27, 2024 03:45 AM (w6EFb)

320
How are you tonight? Well, I hope. And warm enough!
Posted by: JQ

=============

Very warm here in Californicate, thankee.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at March 27, 2024 03:49 AM (wjjYr)

321 Posted by: Blonde Morticia
------

Ah. Calizuela.

At least you're not shivering! That's a plus!

Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024 03:52 AM (njWTi)

322 No much more than cat napping since posted Bad Blue

Posted by: Skip at March 27, 2024 03:55 AM (fwDg9)

323 Mornin' Skip!

Pixy must be not far behind you... LOL

Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024 03:58 AM (njWTi)

324 PIXY'S NOOD IS UP

Posted by: Skip at March 27, 2024 04:00 AM (fwDg9)

325 Thanks, Roger Ball!

Posted by: m at March 27, 2024 04:05 AM (o3SCB)

326 Put your concepts of boyhood hero dreams aside and be a practical, rational adult for a minute. What I have to say will upset many of you but listen to me.

If you get the opportunity to take a ride in a warbird of any sort, DO NOT do it.

There are older aircraft than those in flyable condition and as safe as any ship of that age an technology can be. But warbirds were built with a very different purpose and without modern inspection practices. Yes they were tough enough to withstand wartime rigors, and yes they are romantic and classic, and yes you'll think you're cool for a few minutes. But no.

They were built generations ago and have unknown flaws undetectable without disassembly. They should all be grounded and placed in museums. Those fvckiin' things will kill you and there are plenty of examples of that.

If they are so valuable, and they are, why risk their destruction and yours on a vanity flight?

DO NOT get in one of those m-f'ers.

Posted by: Dan Patterson at March 27, 2024 04:10 AM (Dzrra)

327 1. The B17 was actually a terrible plane. I don't hate the thing, it's just that the B24 did everything better. The B17 was already insanely expensive to build and buy...and it was obsolete even before the war started.

2. Not entirely certain that the strategic bombing campaign actually did any good other than get a considerable amount of our boys killed in regards to almost completely useless massive bombing runs (and don't even get me started on the Norden). And no, don't look up the numbers. You're not going to like what you see.

3. In regards to attempts to get more of these ancient machines back into the air, look up "Lacey Lady" in regards to the B17 restoration project going on with the B17 Alliance in Salem, Oregon. They allow tours of the project (I've been there several times and have the T-shirts), with a projected completion date of 2035. I hesitate to say "restoration" because most of the aluminum skin bits are being replaced with new, updated aluminum, as most of it rotted all the way through due to it sitting on top of a gas station for decades as a less-than-50-flight-hours display piece. Funny story as to how it got there from the volunteers who do the tours.

Posted by: ScaryPants at March 27, 2024 04:12 AM (Cf1wl)

328 I won't be taking any of those 'vanity flights' because:

#1-- motion sickness. And I can't take anything for it.

#2-- expense. I don't have that kind of $ to throw around.

It would be cool, but ain't happenin' for me & isn't a huge priority anyhow.

Posted by: JQ at March 27, 2024 04:18 AM (njWTi)

329 If you get the opportunity to take a ride in a warbird of any sort, DO NOT do it.
There are older aircraft than those in flyable condition and as safe as any ship of that age an technology can be. But warbirds were built with a very different purpose and without modern inspection practices. Yes they were tough enough to withstand wartime rigors, and yes they are romantic and classic, and yes you'll think you're cool for a few minutes. But no.
They were built generations ago and have unknown flaws undetectable without disassembly. They should all be grounded and placed in museums. Those fvckiin' things will kill you and there are plenty of examples of that.

Dan Patterson: There's a yuuuge difference between "static display" and "FAA-legal flyable condition". What you're going to discover is that the flyable warbirds I'm familiar with have been gone through with a fine-toothed FAA comb, for example, the B17's have been parked numerous times for potential issues. You'd be surprised as to how many original parts have been long gone for years, if not decades (look up the Glacial Girl P38, most of the plane is new). Beyond that, however, agreed, they are crap.

Posted by: ScaryPants at March 27, 2024 04:22 AM (Cf1wl)

330 I had a friend, Russel B, who was training to be a pharmacist when WW2. started up and since he had a college degree he became the captain of a B-17 and flew twenty-five over Europe. He had piece of shrapnel he kept as a souvenir from flak that was still hot when it dropped into his lap.
He stayed on when the Army Air Corps became the Air Force.
He flew light tail-draggers for the CIA during the Korean difficulty landing on rice paddy dikes to drop off agents or, occasionally, to pick up prisoners to be transported back for interrogation.
He rode a desk after that and thought his flying days were behind him.
Vietnam came along and it was soon discovered that the fast-mover jets were not well suited for close air support of engaged troops on the ground.
He had experience flying propeller driven aircraft and was soon flying Skyraiders over the Ho Chi Min trail and other areas in The Land of Bad Things.
He kept a 7.62 round that was removed from his plane. He said he returned the favor by coming back around and dropping a 500 pound bomb on the culvert the guy with the AK47 was guarding.
Very intelligent and spiritual man when I knew him. He was reading the Bible in Greek.

Posted by: waepnedmann: at March 27, 2024 04:23 AM (97yx7)

331 Just read this piece, thanks again 'Roger Ball.' As always, it contains a great deal of real history.

Posted by: L - If they do it with you, they'll do it do you, too at March 27, 2024 07:37 AM (GshMh)

332 189 Funny, I get to meet a lot of young people who are just dying to be air crew, or pilots. The biggest difference is the number of experts telling us "I'd never allow my kid to do that" or calling them suckers or worse, and I see those every day. Oddly, there were some people saying that in WWII also, and you never see them in the TV specials. Our social media are much more powerful.
Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at March 26, 2024 11:09 PM (zdLoL)

I’m not much for HS graduations - in the grand scheme they are overhyped and overrated. (The biggest day of your life should happen way before - the moment when you discover why you are here.) But I went to my niece’s last year and was pleasantly surprised to see the principal at one point asked all those in the graduating class who had already joined the military to stand and be recognized along with those headed to the service academies.
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at March 26, 2024 11:27 PM (8sMut)

Nice!

Posted by: m at March 27, 2024 07:49 AM (o3SCB)

333 81 I've flown a B-17. Unladen and with nobody shooting at you, they're a dream: easy inputs, simple to trim out, can execute 'normal' turns without rudder -- it just banks the way you turn the yoke. Like some of the sporty fighters, it must have been frustrating as hell to never be able to just go for a cruise for the joy of it.

I'm told the B-24 was a hell of a lot more work.

Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at March 26, 2024 10:27 PM (zdLoL)

That's accurate. My dad was a B-24 pilot, after he finished his tour (50 missions credited, some counted 'double' because of the risk) in Europe he was sent to Las Vegas to train B-17 pilots in the B-24 because "the base commander there said the B-24's were killing too many B-17 pilots".

After that he went to Texas for training in the B-32, and would have been sent to Japan to support the invasion (Olympic/Coronet).

Posted by: Grumpy Old Ham at March 27, 2024 08:00 AM (b6Yv0)

334 100 You can see the Enola Gay at the Air & Space museum annex in Dulles, VA. It's a B-29 not a B-17. I'm amazed they haven't removed it because we're ruled by malignant clowns.

Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at March 26, 2024 10:34 PM (sAmhv)

It almost didn't make it there in the first place, thanks to the usual suspects:

https://siarchives.si.edu/blog/exhibiting-enola-gay

Posted by: Grumpy Old Ham at March 27, 2024 08:06 AM (b6Yv0)

335 Consulting with a company right now that occupies a portion of the former Studebaker plant where these Wright-Cyclone R 1820 's were made. It's an impressive plant; no windows, and massive concrete "bunkers" in the rear of the building where the engines were stress-tested. I would imagine that Studebaker got the contract, because the plant could be built far inland, well out of range of anything that the Axis powers had. Thank God!

Posted by: Roger DePoy at March 27, 2024 08:53 AM (wLtJD)

336 Just like Roger asked, outstanding comments from the Horde!

Posted by: FINGERS at March 27, 2024 09:31 AM (SO6XB)

337 I eagerly anticipated the MotA series, as a longtime plane nerd and WWII enthusiast. Every series needs a little time to get accustomed to, and you have to give actors a chance to breathe in their roles. But this venture tried to do far too much in far too little time, and it just felt forced and overly eager and too dependent on CGI to tell stories that are riveting on their own -- needing less embellishment and just some good, solid reenacting.

One of the greatest strengths of Band of Bros was the personal connection the viewer got to the early episodes from the interviews with the actual people being portrayed. I actually cried when Dick Winters passed, as I felt like I knew him. MotA offers no such connection until the end, with quick wrap-ups of the airmen.

This easily could have (should have?) been a 3-season series. They tried to hang the whole aura of American airmen on two cocky, caricature-ish pilots -- neither of whom do we feel invested in. Meanwhile, some of the supporting roles and details of the air war effort are orphaned.

That's not to say there aren't good episodes or light shed on the incredible feats of young men who literally saved the world.Oppty missed.

Posted by: red speck at March 27, 2024 09:40 AM (0Id0S)

338 High Efficiency High Frequency Plastic Embossing Machine

Posted by: applications of high frequency vinyl welding machines in the packaging industry at March 27, 2024 10:28 AM (X1/hl)

339 My grandfather was the nose gunner on a B-24 during the Pacific theater operations. He would often have a camera mounted on his guns to record footage for the war department. He "forgot" to turn in one such recording after a mission. THe Japoenese Zero was so close to to my grandfathers guns that you could see his face.

Posted by: Jonahex at March 27, 2024 10:48 AM (4Fn0p)

340 Fighter planes done normally have multiple crewmen, just saying. Once you bail out, it goes down.

Posted by: Nightfall at March 27, 2024 07:23 PM (xd3qE)

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Posted by: service at April 23, 2024 08:59 PM (do5Zh)

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Overnight Open Thread - 03/26/2024[Roger Ball]

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Overnight Open Thread - 03/26/2024
[Roger Ball]