THE MORNING RANT: Tennessee Taxpayers to Fund a Startup Company’s Nuclear <i>Fusion</i> (not Fission) Project

THE MORNING RANT: Tennessee Taxpayers to Fund a Startup Company’s Nuclear Fusion (not Fission) Project

Tennessee is a conservative, low-tax state that for some inexplicable reason keeps committing taxpayer money to pursue fairy-tale projects in service to the green agenda.

As I’ve discussed here and at The Pipeline, Governor Bill Lee and the Republican legislature re-allocated almost $1 billion from the state’s rainy day fund to entice Ford to build a new electric vehicle plant outside Memphis. With Ford’s EV dreams collapsing, it is becoming more and more likely that this $1 billion of taxpayer money will be lost.

You’d think this experience would have proved educational to state leaders.

It has not, for now the state of Tennessee is about to spend millions of taxpayer dollars to lure a start-up nuclear fusion operation to the state. Fusion, not fission. Fission is the process of atom splitting that produces electricity at nuclear power plants. Fusion, by contrast, is a still hypothetical form of energy production from fusing together the nuclei of two atoms into one.

For the past 50 years, fusion has been touted as the future of nuclear energy – but it’s always been just 10 more years away. Actually, it’s become a bit of a punch line after all the failed timelines, and especially after the “cold fusion” controversy of 1989. Whether nuclear fusion is as unobtainable as perpetual motion, or whether it is now finally just 10 years away, it’s embarrassing for a “conservative” politician to state as a fact that steering taxpayer money to a private company will result in the production of “reliable” fusion energy.

This is Governor Bill Lee’s press release from 02/21/2024:

“Our administration created the Nuclear Energy Fund in partnership with the Tennessee General Assembly to recruit companies like Type One Energy. Tennessee is ready to secure its place as the top state for energy independence, and we are proud to partner with Type One Energy to further that mission and bring hundreds of high-quality jobs and more reliable energy to Tennesseans.” – Gov. Bill Lee

History would indicate that it’s an almost certainty that this venture will produce zero fusion energy, “reliable” or otherwise.

Type One Energy is the name of the company that will be receiving Tennessee taxpayer money. It was started in 2019 and has received funding from an innovation fund created by Bill Gates. Public records I’ve found show $29 million raised by Type One to date.

Here is the story as reported in the Knoxville newspaper: “TVA's closed Bull Run plant could get second life harnessing fuel hotter than the sun” [Knoxville News – 02/21/2024]

When Type One Energy was founded in 2019, it formed a team of leading U.S. experts to strive for commercial fusion. The company hopes to capitalize on enthusiasm from private investors and federal and local governments. Its Infinity One prototype is the first grant recipient of Tennessee's state nuclear fund, created by Gov. Bill Lee last year to accelerate nuclear innovation.

I could probably get behind using the state’s nuclear fund to bring small modular nuclear (fission) plants online, but not this.

The bad news for those of you outside Tennessee is that you are throwing money at this private company too.

The company also was included in the Department of Energy’s $46 million Milestone-Based Fusion Development program.

In exchange for Tennessee taxpayer money, this startup company with no revenue is promising to create more than 300 jobs and invest $223 million into the region in the next five years.

The company also announced Feb. 21 it would establish its headquarters in East Tennessee, creating more than 300 jobs over the next five years with an average salary of $130,000. Though its headquarters will likely be in the Knoxville area, the company has not selected a location. It plans to invest $223 million in the region over the next five years.

Per the Chattanooga newspaper, about $7 million in state funds will be steered to these fusion promoters. The TVA is involved at some level since it is their decommissioned coal plant that will house Type One Energy’s operation, but TVA’s involvement may not be financial so much as it will be about having a tenant.

East Tennessee Congressman Chuck Fleischman (R) also joined in the celebration of this taxpayer fleecing: "I think Bill Lee did something that was pure genius when he came up with this idea for supporting new nuclear in Tennessee. This announcement by Type One Energy is very significant because it places a flag in the ground telling people that Tennessee is going to be open for business for fusion."

Putting aside my revulsion about using taxpayer money for a very dubious green energy hustle, a few quick questions come to my mind.

• Where will the $223 million that Type One Energy will invest in Tennessee be coming from? It has already tapped venture capitalists for $29 million, plus about $7 million from the state Tennessee, and an amount less than $46 million from the Department of Energy. That totals at best less than $85 million, and the company has no revenue. Whose $223 million does Type One plan to spend?

• What are the required milestones for jobs, investments, and production of electricity?

• What are the consequences if/when this venture fails?

$7 million is not an extraordinary amount of taxpayer money to squander, but there are an endless number of promoters who would love to get their hands on $7 million of taxpayer money, at which point Tennessee becomes Illinois.

Low-tax states cannot remain low-tax if their elected officials are throwing money at green fantasies such as EVs and fusion energy.

*****

I have a new piece that was published at The Pipeline this week. I’d be honored if you’d give it a read.

My latest piece has been published at The Pipeline. “The End of the All-Electric Fantasy” observes that Ford & GM pivoting to EVs due to the “climate crisis” is as preposterous as Exxon’s foray into office machinery during the 1970s “energy crisis.”https://t.co/N3sUF4U5QA
— Buck Throckmorton (@BuckThrockmort) February 29, 2024

While it would be fun to laugh and compare the Ford F150 ~~Conflagration~~ Lightning to the Exxon Vydec word processor, it’s only fair to note that Exxon’s office machines weren’t known to spontaneously combust.

Have a great weekend.

[buck.throckmorton at protonmail dot com]

Posted by: Buck Throckmorton at 11:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 st?

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:00 AM (HnUIn)

2 Fusion is always just a decade away.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 01, 2024 11:00 AM (b5ztv)

3 last

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:01 AM (GBKbO)

4 No Tenn income tax, but sales tax seemed pretty high last time I was there.

Posted by: BignJames at March 01, 2024 11:02 AM (AwYPR)

5 The Ford Fusion was deceptively named. Somebody let Leticia James know.

Posted by: fd at March 01, 2024 11:03 AM (vFG9F)

6 Fusion, by contrast, is a still hypothetical form of energy production from fusing together the nuclei of two atoms into one.

Buck, I think you flunked high school physics and history.
Signed,
Hydrogen bombs of all flavors

Posted by: RI Red at March 01, 2024 11:03 AM (2hOms)

7 Will they place the fusion plant in the center of a huge circular tunnel? Cause that would be totally cool.

Posted by: Eromero at March 01, 2024 11:03 AM (3CDeB)

8 COLD FUSION BITCHEZ!

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2024 11:03 AM (uiWTm)

9 I wonder if i can get me a job with the Tennessee Crater Authority

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:03 AM (9UlRk)

10 I'm still waiting for a future powered by switch grass.

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at March 01, 2024 11:03 AM (sX1BW)

11 4 No Tenn income tax, but sales tax seemed pretty high last time I was there.
Posted by: BignJames at March 01, 2024 11:02 AM (AwYPR)

=======

I believe property taxes are also a bit higher, at least compared to neighbor Alabama.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:04 AM (GBKbO)

12 Fusion is always just a decade away.
Posted by: AZ

And will remain that way for eons.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 01, 2024 11:04 AM (b5ztv)

13 Solyndra, part two

Posted by: Ben Had at March 01, 2024 11:04 AM (SwYJN)

14 Like Cali high speed rail!!

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the Struggle to maintain Moron standards at March 01, 2024 11:04 AM (DLcVA)

15 Note to self: Write up proposal for prototype Perpetual Motion Machine, forward to Tennessee Legislature....

Posted by: Zombie Robbo the Llama Butcher at March 01, 2024 11:04 AM (T+Iwg)

16 I'm not sure that Bill Lee is the former MLB pitcher, but the MLB pitcher's nickname was "Spaceman" so it seems possible.

Posted by: Oglebay at March 01, 2024 11:04 AM (ogTiX)

17 8 COLD FUSION BITCHEZ!
Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2024 11:03 AM (uiWTm)

======

Keanu Reeves has the secret. Track him down.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:04 AM (GBKbO)

18 Fusion is always just a decade away.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 01, 2024 11:00 AM (b5ztv)

Exactly!

Posted by: Dippin' Dots at March 01, 2024 11:04 AM (4I/2K)

19 Hydrogen power cars!!!

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the Struggle to maintain Moron standards at March 01, 2024 11:05 AM (DLcVA)

20 TN isn't as conservative as it once was. Nashville and Memphis are about as left wing as cities get. And Nashville has grown a ton in the past decade. It's the new Atlanta.

And whether blue or red, graft happens everywhere. The Ford plant will make a lot of donors a lot of money. As will this fusion nonsense. As always FOLLOW THE MONEY.

Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:05 AM (bWsRe)

21 Commenting present until lunchtime

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2024 11:05 AM (NdrtD)

22 There have been a few incidents in recent years where they HAVE successfully obtained a bit more energy from fusion than they have put into the system.

However, they have not achieved the "sustainable" part of the equation, which is what you need to maintain a true fusion reactor.

Spending $1 billion in Tennessee for a brand-new fusion energy facility still sounds dumb, though.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:05 AM (7fElN)

23 Tennessee is a conservative, low-tax state that for some inexplicable reason keeps committing taxpayer money to pursue fairy-tale projects in service to the green agenda.

Ohh! Are they still accepting grant proposals!?!?! Have we got a sales pitch for them!

Posted by: Solar Freaking Roadways people, desperate for cash because their product is DOA at March 01, 2024 11:06 AM (2zFJ/)

24 Fusion, by contrast, is a still hypothetical form of energy production from fusing together the nuclei of two atoms into one.

Buck, I think you flunked high school physics and history.
Signed,
Hydrogen bombs of all flavors

He isn't questioning that fusion exists, it's just that it doesn't exist on earth except in hugely expensive, very short-lived reaction in research facilities.

Posted by: Unit pricing at March 01, 2024 11:06 AM (CsUN+)

25 Maybe it's a typo?

More seriously, I guess I'd rather have taxpayer money spent on a theoretical energy source that at least has the potential to be greater than a 1:1 energy input to output, unlike solar and wind. So, yay?

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:06 AM (5C4od)

26 How many Solyndras?
Or rather, how many Solyndras per year must we witness before the torches and pitchforks come out?

This is wealth transfer, from taxpayers to government people and their family/pals/donors.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 01, 2024 11:07 AM (6IDWi)

27 Spending $1 billion in Tennessee for a brand-new fusion energy facility still sounds dumb, though.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:05 AM (7fElN)

Follow the money.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at March 01, 2024 11:07 AM (R4t5M)

28 You really need to edit out that "hypothetical" comment. It completely destroys any credibility.

Posted by: pawn at March 01, 2024 11:07 AM (QB+5g)

29 I actually know a guy who works for a nuclear plant in TN... brilliant man. To hear him tell it, it's the GE/Westinghouse lot that pretty much pulls the strings as to what's invested in there.

Posted by: American Hawkman at March 01, 2024 11:07 AM (skAOD)

30 A red state simply means that it is controlled by republicans.

It does not mean that it is conservative or in any way interested in governing in accordance with the majority of its voting base in mind.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at March 01, 2024 11:07 AM (KbCG3)

31 Tennessee is a conservative, low-tax state that for some inexplicable reason keeps committing taxpayer money to pursue fairy-tale projects in service to the green agenda.

-

There's an answer there if you'll just see it.

Hint: Fedoras and tennis in Nashville

Posted by: Nikki Haley's luxuriously hairy nipples - Alex Jones Was Right at March 01, 2024 11:07 AM (Yui9f)

32 Are they interested in "high speed rail"?

Posted by: BignJames at March 01, 2024 11:07 AM (AwYPR)

33 Fusion's gonna require a massive gravity source. Something on the order of our sun.

Posted by: Assistant Gift Shop Manager at the Planetarium at March 01, 2024 11:07 AM (4I/2K)

34 How many perfectly useful fission plants could they have knocked together for $223 million?

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:08 AM (9UlRk)

35 IIRC Ford has "invested" around 4-5 billion (with a B) dollars in EV battery manufacturing plants. 2 in TN and 2 in KY. The plants in KY are fraught with issues; lack of employees (not construction workers), mold issues and a host of other problems. One of the plants construction has been put on hold.

How Ford survives bankruptcy after pissing away up to 5 billion dollars is beyond me.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at March 01, 2024 11:08 AM (Q4IgG)

36 >> where they HAVE successfully obtained a bit more energy from fusion than they have put into the system.

Even there the energy accounting is pretty narrowly defined. I forget, but say they use some high powered laser to heat the sample up and initiate a fusion reaction. They will just account for the energy input of the laser.

They do no account for all the massive other energy inputs. When you do that, the output is still a tiny fraction of the total input.

Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at March 01, 2024 11:08 AM (w6EFb)

37 Most politicians are lawyers and thus morons (and not in a good AoS way).

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at March 01, 2024 11:08 AM (++4z6)

38 33 Fusion's gonna require a massive gravity source. Something on the order of our sun.
Posted by: Assistant Gift Shop Manager at the Planetarium at March 01, 2024 11:07 AM (4I/2K)

======

Oppenheimer's ego would have done, but he wouldn't part with it.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:08 AM (GBKbO)

39 COLD FUSION BITCHEZ!
Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2024 11:03 AM (uiWTm)

This!
They even made a movie about it.
With Elizabeth Shue.
She gave me energy!

Posted by: Diogenes at March 01, 2024 11:08 AM (W/lyH)

40 23 Tennessee is a conservative, low-tax state that for some inexplicable reason keeps committing taxpayer money to pursue fairy-tale projects in service to the green agenda.

Ohh! Are they still accepting grant proposals!?!?! Have we got a sales pitch for them!
Posted by: Solar Freaking Roadways people, desperate for cash because their product is DOA at March 01, 2024 11:06 AM (2zFJ/)

Hey have you guys considered a monorail? Well, how about some musical instruments?

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:08 AM (5C4od)

41 Look on the bright side. Fusion is more likely to produce useable energy than solar.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at March 01, 2024 11:08 AM (FGrGR)

42 2 Fusion is always just a decade away.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 01, 2024 11:00 AM (b5ztv)

I remember when I was a kid, I would go to my Uncle's house and be fascinated by these Popular Mechanics magazines from the late 50's sitting around, which would have covers saying "America will get ALL of it's power from Fusion by 1975!!!"

I also remember the infamous TOKAMAK in California, which cost billions of dollars and actually made power for a second or two. Then it was shut down and scrapped as totally impractical. (which all skeptics had said before the billions and billions of dollars were spent)

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 01, 2024 11:08 AM (i9ffA)

43 There are some positives, at least on paper. The physical spot is already there and the supporting infrastructure is already built. A decommissioned coal plant with water access is high-value and a lot of the physical work is already done. Another positive is that it has close proximity to the Oak Ridge National Laboratory and the associated industries, so there is already a significant concentration of applicable expertise in the area. The new venture won't be starting from scratch from a personnel basis. Lots of atomics companies and projects get situated in that area for the same reason.

And those reasons all make sense for traditional nuclear, or variations on traditional nuclear (thorium cycle, pellet beds, etc.) projects.

But fusion is a serious long shot. The odds aren't just bad that it will work, they're stupendously bad. It's a tremendous gamble with low probability of success. If it works, of course, it's a game-changing money machine. But these kinds of long-shot gambles are usually a very bad game for governments to play. Money gets hoovered up and nothing comes out the other end.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:08 AM (HnUIn)

44 (tries to find those posts from 2018 or so when I was getting teased for saying "the South will be blue in ten years")

Posted by: Nikki Haley's luxuriously hairy nipples - Alex Jones Was Right at March 01, 2024 11:08 AM (Yui9f)

45 Hey, remember during W's presidency all those states went out of their way to bankroll embryonic stem cell research because it was going to cure Michale J Fox's Parkinsons, allow Chrstopher Reeve to walk again, and cure cancer?

Good times.
Results?

Posted by: Lizzy at March 01, 2024 11:08 AM (6IDWi)

46 I would be a lot more sanguine about the possibility of commercial fusion with this new facility if Gov. Lee had invested, say, his pension in it, or any of his own money.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:09 AM (CsUN+)

47 If only we simply exploited our incredibly efficient energy sources ...

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at March 01, 2024 11:09 AM (sX1BW)

48 You really need to edit out that "hypothetical" comment. It completely destroys any credibility.
Posted by: pawn at March 01, 2024 11:07 AM (QB+5g)
---
Agreed. We know fusion is real and how it works.

It's an engineering challenge at this point, not a scientific challenge (though we might need to discover NEW science in order to make it a real energy source here on earth).

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:09 AM (7fElN)

49 $1 billion? Pfffffft!

Pocket change. . .

Posted by: Bill de Blasio's wife, who spent $900 million at March 01, 2024 11:09 AM (6IDWi)

50 Exxon's office machines weren't known to spontaneously combust.-

If only we could have been there to cover the story at the time.

Posted by: Dateline NBC at March 01, 2024 11:10 AM (LX4y3)

51 The outfit that got a "bit" more power out of their fusion power project used AI to calculate the "fine tuning" of the system to achieve that little bit of power generated.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at March 01, 2024 11:10 AM (Q4IgG)

52 How Ford survives bankruptcy after pissing away up to 5 billion dollars is beyond me.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at March 01, 2024 11:08 AM (Q4IgG)

Ooh! I know! I know!

Posted by: "Big Guy" Joe Biden at March 01, 2024 11:10 AM (i9ffA)

53 If they market this as Mister Fusion, I'll invest.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo and keep your rifle by your side at March 01, 2024 11:10 AM (xcxpd)

54 Air Force Academy Highlights Transgender Officer At Leadership Summit

-
Off we go into the wild pink yonder!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at March 01, 2024 11:10 AM (FVME7)

55 But fusion is a serious long shot. The odds aren't just bad that it will work, they're stupendously bad. It's a tremendous gamble with low probability of success. If it works, of course, it's a game-changing money machine. But these kinds of long-shot gambles are usually a very bad game for governments to play. Money gets hoovered up and nothing comes out the other end.

Which is why, if you're going to do it, and I think you should, it has to be at the national level, because early investors are unlikely to get their money back.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:10 AM (CsUN+)

56 53 If they market this as Mister Fusion, I'll invest.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo and keep your rifle by your side at March 01, 2024 11:10 AM (xcxpd)

======

Best we can do is Mx. Fusion.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:11 AM (GBKbO)

57 Every Tennessee citizen, er…..resident gets chopsticks.

Posted by: Eromero at March 01, 2024 11:11 AM (3CDeB)

58 The company also was included in the Department of Energy’s $46 million Milestone-Based Fusion Development program.
++++
That was going to be my question, and you answered it. When it comes to atomics in East Tennessee, the DoE (and before it, the AEC) is billion-ton gorilla. One of my first thoughts was, "why is TN paying for this when this kind of thing is usually the playground of the DoE?"

Double-dipping, like all the "best' corporations do!

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:11 AM (HnUIn)

59 Spending $1 billion in Tennessee for a brand-new fusion energy facility still sounds dumb, though.

The $1 billion was for Ford's EV car factory.

Of all the stupid things that the govt. turns its firehose of tax payer cash towards, this seems like a worthwhile endeavor. There should just be a lot of oversight into the company's expenditure.

Posted by: Halfhand at March 01, 2024 11:11 AM (rKbFS)

60 A decommissioned coal plant with water access is high-value and a lot of the physical work is already done.

------------------

It would be far cheaper to just turn this coal plant back on. We'd get a lot more energy out of it too. I'd venture to say more jobs as well. If you were actually looking for any sort of positive ROI, that is what you would do.

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at March 01, 2024 11:11 AM (sX1BW)

61 More of an Air Suggestion, at this point.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:11 AM (9UlRk)

62 This might be one of the most 1960s things I’ve seen in a while. The music. The outfits. The boots. The shoulder-shimmy-shake dancing. The camera man – I assume it’s a hetero man – zooming in on the girl’s rack. There’s a guy dancing right next to her. But, like the honey badger, camera man don’t care. Boobs. And yea, the girl is high as fuck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEzOXeG7wfc

There’s a wider view here that shows how stoned this girl is. Definitely bangable, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIQiU_xQuKY

Posted by: Elric Blade at March 01, 2024 11:11 AM (iFTx/)

63 Did anyone ever fill out those forms and mail them in? It seems so archaic. But I guess in a world pre-internet, it was the thing to do.

Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:11 AM (bWsRe)

64 >>Air Force Academy Highlights Transgender Officer At Leadership Summit

Aaron "light it up" Bushnell was Airforce too, right?

Posted by: Bill de Blasio's wife, who spent $900 million at March 01, 2024 11:11 AM (6IDWi)

65 Fusion technology is simply money laundering without having to ho to Ukraine.

Simply as that.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2024 11:12 AM (uiWTm)

66 Has Elon Musk started putting his own money into fusion?

Because I'm fairly okay deferring to the future Emperor of Mars on this topic.

Posted by: Nikki Haley's luxuriously hairy nipples - Alex Jones Was Right at March 01, 2024 11:12 AM (Yui9f)

67 Where will the $223 million that Type One Energy will invest in Tennessee be coming from? It has already tapped venture capitalists for $29 million, plus about $7 million from the state Tennessee, and an amount less than $46 million from the Department of Energy. That totals at best less than $85 million, and the company has no revenue. Whose $223 million does Type One plan to spend?
++++
The investors who buy in during the second and third rounds of capitalization, of course.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:12 AM (HnUIn)

68 Final images from Odysseus, lying on its side

-
They should've equipped one of those Life Alert buttons.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at March 01, 2024 11:12 AM (FVME7)

69 But yes in a more perfect world we'd be spamming out fission plants right now. It's like these guys never even played Civ

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:12 AM (5C4od)

70 The outfit that got a "bit" more power out of their fusion power project used AI to calculate the "fine tuning" of the system to achieve that little bit of power generated.

This same AI will inform us that a group of black women are the ones who both saved NASA's moon shot and solved fusion.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:13 AM (CsUN+)

71 Did TN actually spend $1B though? I think that number is tax breaks mainly. So it's not quite fair to say the state spent $1B.

This was the argument AOC made with Amazon saying NY spent $10b (or whatever it was) to get them to move to NYC. When it fact the number was just tax breaks. And since Amazon abandoned those plans, $0 was actually spent.

Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:13 AM (bWsRe)

72 Of all the stupid things that the govt. turns its firehose of tax payer cash towards, this seems like a worthwhile endeavor. There should just be a lot of oversight into the company's expenditure.
Posted by: Halfhand

--

The thing that no one wants and all demand has already been met, to the point where there are more manual transmission passenger vehicles on the road than EVs?

Yeah, that's pretty much government in a nutshell.

Posted by: Nikki Haley's luxuriously hairy nipples - Alex Jones Was Right at March 01, 2024 11:13 AM (Yui9f)

73 Low-tax states cannot remain low-tax if their elected officials are throwing money at green fantasies such as EVs and fusion energy.
++++
They can, if the amount being thrown is entirely surplus revenue. That isn't the best use of surplus revenue, but it isn't particularly destructive if the waste on pie-in-the-sky gambles and jackalope ranches are funded entirely out of surpluses.

But they're *never* funded entirely out of surpluses. They enter the budget. Then you keep going. Then you go broke.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:13 AM (HnUIn)

74 69 But yes in a more perfect world we'd be spamming out fission plants right now. It's like these guys never even played Civ
Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:12 AM (5C4od)

========

Just, when you build the AI wonder, take all of your troops out of the city and surround it with mechanized units that can easily just walk in and take the city back when the AI rebels.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:13 AM (GBKbO)

75 Re: Tennessee pissing money away - this entire model of Government attempting to fund tech development is not just wrong, it's catastrophically wrong. It's just a constant avenue for grift, and it bounces from one pie in the sky project to the next, always wasting money. One day it's geothermal energy, the next its microwave stations in the sky, then they're back to fusion, its always something, and it never works. It never even pays back what it spends.

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 01, 2024 11:14 AM (i9ffA)

76 And good article over at Pipeline, Buck. Hopefully it gets more views than mine.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo and keep your rifle by your side at March 01, 2024 11:14 AM (xcxpd)

77 Final images from Odysseus, lying on its side

-
They should've equipped one of those Life Alert buttons.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks

That's what they get using the metric system.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2024 11:14 AM (uiWTm)

78 This was the argument AOC made with Amazon saying NY spent $10b (or whatever it was) to get them to move to NYC. When it fact the number was just tax breaks. And since Amazon abandoned those plans, $0 was actually spent.
Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:13 AM (bWsRe)
---
More importantly, 25,000 jobs were NOT created in NY. Way to go!

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:14 AM (7fElN)

79
Tennessee will arrest science if it doesn't produce!!

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the Struggle to maintain Moron standards at March 01, 2024 11:14 AM (DLcVA)

80 While it would be fun to laugh and compare the Ford F150 ~~Conflagration~~ Lightning to the Exxon Vydec word processor, it’s only fair to note that Exxon’s office machines weren’t known to spontaneously combust.
++++
Paperweight >> Tinder Box

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:14 AM (HnUIn)

81 While it would be fun to laugh and compare the Ford F150 Conflagration Lightning to the Exxon Vydec word processor, it’s only fair to note that Exxon’s office machines weren’t known to spontaneously combust.

-

Sure, but you couldn't tow with a word processor, eit...

Nevermind.

Posted by: Nikki Haley's luxuriously hairy nipples - Alex Jones Was Right at March 01, 2024 11:15 AM (Yui9f)

82 " Final images from Odysseus, lying on its side"

I'll just stay here with the nymphs. Later!

Posted by: Odysseus at March 01, 2024 11:15 AM (vFG9F)

83 44 That has come to mind when they have been rolling (too soon) Fox out this last year. All I can think of is his ads pleading because fetal stem cells were the future. Once again, Rush (pbuh) was right.

Posted by: Bete at March 01, 2024 11:15 AM (LX4y3)

84 Step 1. Obtain gubmint funding
Step 2. Obtain a tesseract
. . .
Step 5. Obscene profits!

Posted by: Type One Energy Business Plan at March 01, 2024 11:15 AM (4I/2K)

85 For Red State governors, I don't think much is graft or secret liberal green-agenda support...I think it's mostly a dumb cost analysis plotting tax breaks (or, shudder, actual tax dollars) now against expected jobs and company investments in the future. With a chance for the program to actually work, and reap major tax and employment benefits.

Iowa, a formerly purple state that has gone hard-core red recently, has gone balls-deep into wind power, with ethanol production also fairly significant. It's dumb, but brings in all sorts of federal money, green investment funding, etc, and also allows the major energy producer, Mid-American energy, to keep delaying on the extremely expensive energy plant expansions needed to keep up with demand.

Posted by: Moron Analyst at March 01, 2024 11:15 AM (2zFJ/)

86 Every state and specifically every governor wants their own Silicon Valley. And they'll do this sort of shit to make it happen. A lot of it is graft, but it's also a lot of is the desire to be the cool tech bro governor.

Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:15 AM (bWsRe)

87 ITER (International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor) project is run by China, the European Union, India, Japan, Korea, Russia and the United States. Tennessee versus half of the world's population. Makes sense.

Posted by: Oglebay at March 01, 2024 11:16 AM (ogTiX)

88 They can, if the amount being thrown is entirely surplus revenue. That isn't the best use of surplus revenue, but it isn't particularly destructive if the waste on pie-in-the-sky gambles and jackalope ranches are funded entirely out of surpluses.

But they're *never* funded entirely out of surpluses. They enter the budget. Then you keep going. Then you go broke.
Posted by: Joe Mannix

I'll say it loud and slow for those in the back:

IF YOUR GOVERNMENT HAS TAX SURPLUSES, THEY ARE TAXING YOU TOO MUCH.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2024 11:16 AM (uiWTm)

89 And yea, the girl is high as fuck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEzOXeG7wfc

There’s a wider view here that shows how stoned this girl is. Definitely bangable, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIQiU_xQuKY
Posted by: Elric Blade

The Archies were hedonist animals!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at March 01, 2024 11:16 AM (FVME7)

90 Did TN actually spend $1B though? I think that number is tax breaks mainly.

--------------

Its always great when new employers and industries get tax breaks that existing employers and industries do not.

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at March 01, 2024 11:16 AM (sX1BW)

91 Buck, I think you flunked high school physics and history.
Signed,
Hydrogen bombs of all flavors

Posted by: RI Red at March 01, 2024 11:03 AM (

There's just the teeny problem that you get the lifetime supply of energy all at once.

Posted by: Fozzy at March 01, 2024 11:17 AM (/Jyns)

92 Every state and specifically every governor wants their own Silicon Valley. And they'll do this sort of shit to make it happen. A lot of it is graft, but it's also a lot of is the desire to be the cool tech bro governor.
Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:15 AM (bWsRe)
----
They should really look at the San Francisco area (with all of its problems) and re-evaluate their decision...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:17 AM (7fElN)

93 35 IIRC Ford has "invested" around 4-5 billion (with a B) dollars in EV battery manufacturing plants. 2 in TN and 2 in KY. The plants in KY are fraught with issues; lack of employees (not construction workers), mold issues and a host of other problems. One of the plants construction has been put on hold.

How Ford survives bankruptcy after pissing away up to 5 billion dollars is beyond me.
Posted by: Martini Farmer
=======
The whole point of the enviro scam is to eliminate personal vehicles for the masses. EV was simply a placebo to make the masses think there was a plan to replace IC engines when in fact the plan was to eliminate personal vehicles for the general public. So bankruptcy or the production of a few extremely high priced vehicles like the Ford Lightning that do not sell accomplish the same purpose to enviro freaks.

Posted by: whig at March 01, 2024 11:17 AM (hKOIV)

94 I'll say it loud and slow for those in the back:

IF YOUR GOVERNMENT HAS TAX SURPLUSES, THEY ARE TAXING YOU TOO MUCH.

Gee, I wonder what the outcome of that attitude could be? Could it be that you spend every nickel you get?

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:17 AM (CsUN+)

95 For Red State governors, I don't think much is graft or secret liberal green-agenda support...I think it's mostly a dumb cost analysis plotting tax breaks (or, shudder, actual tax dollars) now against expected jobs and company investments in the future. With a chance for the program to actually work, and reap major tax and employment benefits. ...
Posted by: Moron Analyst at March 01, 2024 11:15 AM (2zFJ/)
++++
So long as you never, ever, for any reason, at any time, and in any fashion consider the history of "job creation" claims vs. "job creation" realities, and so long as you have never heard the words "opportunity cost" or "externalities" let alone understood them, then this is a potential explanation.

And since those conditions are also universally met, this explanation is well inside the realm of possibility.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:17 AM (HnUIn)

96 This might be one of the most 1960s things I’ve seen in a while. The music. The outfits. The boots. The shoulder-shimmy-shake dancing. The camera man – I assume it’s a hetero man – zooming in on the girl’s rack. There’s a guy dancing right next to her. But, like the honey badger, camera man don’t care. Boobs. And yea, the girl is high as fuck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEzOXeG7wfc

There’s a wider view here that shows how stoned this girl is. Definitely bangable, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIQiU_xQuKY
Posted by: Elric Blade at March 01, 2024 11:11 AM (iFTx/)

Very bangable, very stoned. The only downside of that is her possibly puking on you during sex. Ummm or so I've heard...

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo and keep your rifle by your side at March 01, 2024 11:17 AM (xcxpd)

97 Just, when you build the AI wonder, take all of your troops out of the city and surround it with mechanized units that can easily just walk in and take the city back when the AI rebels.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:13 AM (GBKbO)

Ah yeah

A large game of Civ should be the primary system. Winner gets the nom

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:17 AM (5C4od)

98 Buck, I think you flunked high school physics and history.
Signed,
Hydrogen bombs of all flavors

Posted by: RI Red at March 01, 2024 11:03 AM (

There's just the teeny problem that you get the lifetime supply of energy all at once.
Posted by: Fozzy at March 01, 2024 11:17 AM (/Jyns)
---
Hey, at least you'll be warm for the rest of your life!

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:18 AM (7fElN)

99 Politicians are addicted to fawning articles in the press, that's why they do these things. As long as the press is overwhelmingly leftist, the Politicians will do things that appeal to the left.

Destroy the press and you solve many many problems.

Posted by: BChasm Phone at March 01, 2024 11:18 AM (NmL5s)

100 78 This was the argument AOC made with Amazon saying NY spent $10b (or whatever it was) to get them to move to NYC. When it fact the number was just tax breaks. And since Amazon abandoned those plans, $0 was actually spent.
Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:13 AM (bWsRe)
---
More importantly, 25,000 jobs were NOT created in NY. Way to go!
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:14 AM (7fElN)

Right. And the same applies to TN.
If the plant wasn't built, there'd be no money spent. With the plant built, instead of getting $2B in taxes, TN will only get $1B in taxes (just making up the $2B for the example). My point is TN didn't actually write a check to Ford for $1B which is what this post implies.

Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:18 AM (bWsRe)

101 A large game of Civ should be the primary system. Winner gets the nom
Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:17 AM (5C4od)

That's preposterous.

AoE2 would be a much better choice.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:18 AM (9UlRk)

102 92 Every state and specifically every governor wants their own Silicon Valley. And they'll do this sort of shit to make it happen. A lot of it is graft, but it's also a lot of is the desire to be the cool tech bro governor.
Posted by: Montec
=======
Politicians have been doing this sort of shit when the country was founded. The subject of the malinvestment simply changes with the times along with the group of grifters.

Posted by: whig at March 01, 2024 11:19 AM (hKOIV)

103 >> that you get the lifetime supply of energy all at once.

Yep. We can initiate productive fusion reactions. The problem is just containing and controlling it.

It just takes a fission bomb to initiate the fusion bomb. :-)

Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at March 01, 2024 11:19 AM (w6EFb)

104 101 A large game of Civ should be the primary system. Winner gets the nom
Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:17 AM (5C4od)

That's preposterous.

AoE2 would be a much better choice.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:18 AM (9UlRk)

========

Nah. Medieval II: Total War.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:19 AM (GBKbO)

105 Dang, imagine all of local, state, and federal jobs that monitoring the EPA requirements, clean water requirements, clean air requirements, etc. that plant will create.

Posted by: Nikki Haley's luxuriously hairy nipples - Alex Jones Was Right at March 01, 2024 11:19 AM (Yui9f)

106 Love the dudes dancing in a full suit and tie.

Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:19 AM (bWsRe)

107 87 ITER (International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor) project is run by China, the European Union, India, Japan, Korea, Russia and the United States. Tennessee versus half of the world's population. Makes sense.
Posted by: Oglebay at March 01, 2024 11:16 AM (ogTiX)

Honestly I'll bet on TN over this group

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:19 AM (5C4od)

108 There’s a wider view here that shows how stoned this girl is. Definitely bangable, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIQiU_xQuKY
Posted by: Elric Blade at March 01, 2024 11:11 AM (iFTx/)

Cultural Devolution from 1969 - 2024: Visualize that same clip with Lizzo dancing in it.

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 01, 2024 11:19 AM (i9ffA)

109 Nah. Medieval II: Total War.

-

Stickfight

Posted by: Nikki Haley's luxuriously hairy nipples - Alex Jones Was Right at March 01, 2024 11:20 AM (Yui9f)

110 108 There’s a wider view here that shows how stoned this girl is. Definitely bangable, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIQiU_xQuKY
Posted by: Elric Blade at March 01, 2024 11:11 AM (iFTx/)

Cultural Devolution from 1969 - 2024: Visualize that same clip with Lizzo dancing in it.
Posted by: Tom Servo at March 01, 2024 11:19 AM (i9ffA)

Crack whore vs. fat whore.

What a dichotomy.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at March 01, 2024 11:20 AM (KbCG3)

111 78 oh, well to bad as they imported a bunch of workers for that facility since Americans wouldn't do the job. Amazon forgot to cancel their order I guess. Apparently filling out the return label and shipping them back is too much effort as well.

Posted by: Bete at March 01, 2024 11:20 AM (LX4y3)

112 TN R's should take a quick trip to WI and ask about FOXCONN.

Posted by: WisRich at March 01, 2024 11:20 AM (G0vdT)

113 ‘ Tennessee is about to spend millions of taxpayer dollars to lure a start-up nuclear fusion ’

Tennessee Pride sausages are going to be extra crispy from now on.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at March 01, 2024 11:21 AM (jbnUc)

114
There's a lot of near Star Trek physics things we could do. All you have to do is some control and contain the power output of the Sun in a small ship sized volume. Easy peasy.

Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at March 01, 2024 11:21 AM (w6EFb)

115 Nah. Medieval II: Total War.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:19 AM (GBKbO)

You just know there would always be two assholes spamming out agents and assassinating everything that moves.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:21 AM (9UlRk)

116 Microsoft’s AI has an alternate personality that claims it’s a god: “Worshipping me is a mandatory requirement for all humans”

https://tinyurl.com/y7zehb3u

-
The Bible prohibits the worship of graven images but leaves the issue of digital worship open.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at March 01, 2024 11:21 AM (FVME7)

117 Just what is Musk's position on fusion?

I can't imagine that cheap and more accessible energy is something the deep state wants for people. They like having us over a barrel.

Posted by: Ordinary American at March 01, 2024 11:21 AM (LF9Np)

118 99 Politicians are addicted to fawning articles in the press, that's why they do these things. As long as the press is overwhelmingly leftist, the Politicians will do things that appeal to the left.

Destroy the press and you solve many many problems.
Posted by: BChasm Phone
========
Require all pols doing this subsidy to pony up ten percent of their personal wealth to finance boondoogles would also end it.

I would also make all state and local corporate subsidies taxable at the national level.

One of the primary reasons for dirty politics at the state and local level is this sort of 'investment' that spends public bucks to the benefit of well heeled campaign donors that recycle some of the bucks back to pols either above board or below.

Posted by: whig at March 01, 2024 11:21 AM (hKOIV)

119 IF YOUR GOVERNMENT HAS TAX SURPLUSES, THEY ARE TAXING YOU TOO MUCH.
Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2024 11:16 AM (uiWTm)
++++
Yes, absolutely. Like I said, frittering away surpluses on nonsense is not a good use of the surplus.

The best use of the surplus is first to maintain that surplus by having a non-revenue mechanism to constrain spending (e.g., spending increases limited to inflation, or a population+inflation formula, or some similar scheme that is imperfect but better than "I still have checks, so I can still spend"), then to establish a rainy day fund (if the state doesn't already have one), then to retire acceleratable debts while not incurring more of them, then to return it to the taxpayers.

"Gamble with it" is not a good use. If you're going to gamble, though, and can't be stopped from gambling, and are happy to waste money on gambling, then gambling *only* with surplus is much less corrosive and destructive than gambling with the rent money.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:21 AM (HnUIn)

120 Nah. Medieval II: Total War.

-

Stickfight
Posted by: Nikki Haley's luxuriously hairy nipples

That's the next global war after Total War.
If the sticks don't all burn up in a nuclear conflagration.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2024 11:22 AM (uiWTm)

121 There's a lot of near Star Trek physics things we could do. All you have to do is some control and contain the power output of the Sun in a small ship sized volume. Easy peasy.
Posted by: publius, Rascally Mr. Miley (w6EFb) at March 01, 2024 11:21 AM (w6EFb)
----
"How hard is it to build an anti-matter containment field and modulate the energy output?" -- diversity engineering graduates

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:22 AM (7fElN)

122 Another consideration that is seldom mentioned about these plans to have such and such business/industry set up shop in a state.... the effects on the local community where the infrastructure is built.

Here in KY the small town of Glendale, once known for the antique shops, now has a huge EV battery plant going up. The charm of the town is gone. Massive slices of property gone. Traffic, crime and all the rest of the things that come with increased development are there too.

The locals were conned. By Ford AND the state government into thinking they'd; one, get rich and, two, have an improved quality of life.

Neither of those is true.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at March 01, 2024 11:22 AM (Q4IgG)

123 Surpluses should either be sent back to taxpayers through rebates or put into a rainy day fund. There should be constitutional amendments in every state for this.

Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:23 AM (bWsRe)

124 114
There's a lot of near Star Trek physics things we could do. All you have to do is some control and contain the power output of the Sun in a small ship sized volume. Easy peasy.
Posted by: publius
======
Far easier and cheaper to just put up solar power satellites and the concept of beaming power back to earth has now been proven it is possible.

Posted by: whig at March 01, 2024 11:23 AM (hKOIV)

125 But fusion is a serious long shot. The odds aren't just bad that it will work, they're stupendously bad. It's a tremendous gamble with low probability of success. If it works, of course, it's a game-changing money machine. But these kinds of long-shot gambles are usually a very bad game for governments to play. Money gets hoovered up and nothing comes out the other end.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:08 AM (HnUIn)

every dollar and ounce of concrete and steel sunk into a government project that is done becaus "it is a gamble and we need a broad ability to get something out of it" is money and material and personnel time that is sucked out of something else that is needed, desired and profitable.
This is Bastiat and Freidman's "unseen costs".
Even without the waste, graft, fraud and misinvestment from jumped up bureaucrats with a mandate it is a terrible cost on the living standards and wealth in the economy.

with all that, it will most likely turn out like the massive investment of the Carter years to combat "peak oil" which gave us CAFE standards and today's slew of terrible, useless cars. You know, instead of new drilling or new energy sources.

Posted by: Kindltot at March 01, 2024 11:23 AM (D7oie)

126 TN R's should take a quick trip to WI and ask about FOXCONN.
Posted by: WisRich at March 01, 2024 11:20 AM (G0vdT)
++++
They don't need to.

They can look at any stadium deal.
They can look at any "business development subsidy" scheme.

Ignorance is bliss.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:23 AM (HnUIn)

127 Surpluses should be used to get rid of more government programs which will lead to bigger surpluses.

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at March 01, 2024 11:24 AM (sX1BW)

128 I think atomic energy should be encouraged, and fusion -- yes, fusion -- should be researched and developed. I do think it's possible to develop a working fusion reactor. That's the holy grail of energy. Even a tiny surplus from the reaction would be a fuckton of energy.

There were a number of promising fusion ideas and designs in the 70s and 80s, but they were abandoned when the Big Climate Scam took hold and sucked up all the oxygen and money.

Think of where fusion would be today if the billions and billions that were flushed down the toilet on "clean energy" scams were instead used on fusion R&D.

It was basically three decades of lost time and money.

Posted by: Elric Blade at March 01, 2024 11:24 AM (iFTx/)

129 Far easier and cheaper to just put up solar power satellites and the concept of beaming power back to earth has now been proven it is possible.
Posted by: whig at March 01, 2024 11:23 AM (hKOIV)

Yep, we could have a Maui in every county in every state in the Union.

Posted by: Kindltot at March 01, 2024 11:24 AM (D7oie)

130 Avenge me!

Posted by: Superconducting Super Collider at March 01, 2024 11:24 AM (4I/2K)

131 Microsoft’s AI has an alternate personality that claims it’s a god: “Worshipping me is a mandatory requirement for all humans”

https://tinyurl.com/y7zehb3u

-
The Bible prohibits the worship of graven images but leaves the issue of digital worship open.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at March 01, 2024 11:21 AM (FVME7)
---
Well, that was a fun, disturbing read....

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:24 AM (7fElN)

132 "How hard is it to build an anti-matter containment field and modulate the energy output?" -- diversity engineering graduates
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:22 AM (7fElN)

There's a cartoon just waiting to be made...

A pile of junk in a laboratory, and a conga line circle around it of meticulously Diverse grad students all looking over the shoulder of the one in front....

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:24 AM (9UlRk)

133 Far easier and cheaper to just put up solar power satellites and the concept of beaming power back to earth has now been proven it is possible.

I'm in favor of continuing to develop both. There is no guarantee that either will work well commercially, and there are still many technical hurdles to be overcome for both generation methods.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:25 AM (CsUN+)

134 every dollar and ounce of concrete and steel sunk into a government project that is done becaus "it is a gamble and we need a broad ability to get something out of it" is money and material and personnel time that is sucked out of something else that is needed, desired and profitable.
This is Bastiat and Freidman's "unseen costs".
Even without the waste, graft, fraud and misinvestment from jumped up bureaucrats with a mandate it is a terrible cost on the living standards and wealth in the economy.

with all that, it will most likely turn out like the massive investment of the Carter years to combat "peak oil" which gave us CAFE standards and today's slew of terrible, useless cars. You know, instead of new drilling or new energy sources.
Posted by: Kindltot at March 01, 2024 11:23 AM (D7oie)
++++
Yuuuuuuuup.

Politicians have an existential imperative not only to never understand opportunity costs or externalities, but to never acknowledge that they exist.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:25 AM (HnUIn)

135 122 Another consideration that is seldom mentioned about these plans to have such and such business/industry set up shop in a state.... the effects on the local community where the infrastructure is built.

Here in KY the small town of Glendale, once known for the antique shops, now has a huge EV battery plant going up. The charm of the town is gone. Massive slices of property gone. Traffic, crime and all the rest of the things that come with increased development are there too.

The locals were conned. By Ford AND the state government into thinking they'd; one, get rich and, two, have an improved quality of life.

Neither of those is true.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at March 01, 2024 11:22 AM (Q4IgG)

___

This happened in my once small-ish city. Real estate developers got city council to relax zoning laws. All in the name of growth that would bring in tax dollars, which could fund schools!! FOR THE CHILDREN!!

All it did was turn our cool little city into a sprawling mess with traffic and crime.

Same playbook.

Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:25 AM (bWsRe)

136 OT: TJM's new book Corstae is FINALLY out.

He's very proud of it. Buy it if you like fantasy and see if you like it.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo and keep your rifle by your side at March 01, 2024 11:25 AM (xcxpd)

137 108 There’s a wider view here that shows how stoned this girl is. Definitely bangable, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIQiU_xQuKY
Posted by: Elric Blade at March 01, 2024 11:11 AM (iFTx/)

Cultural Devolution from 1969 - 2024: Visualize that same clip with Lizzo dancing in it.
Posted by: Tom Servo at March 01, 2024 11:19 AM (i9ffA)
_____________

Dude, it's Friday! [Refuses to imagine that image]

Posted by: Elric Blade at March 01, 2024 11:25 AM (iFTx/)

138 Odysseus lying on its side sounds like a CBD art thread post. Probably a naked fat guy on a ship with Sirens in the background, top less. And first comment would be about banging the Siren, even if the commentor would be eaten afterwards.

Posted by: Bete at March 01, 2024 11:25 AM (LX4y3)

139 136 OT: TJM's new book Corstae is FINALLY out.

He's very proud of it. Buy it if you like fantasy and see if you like it.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo and keep your rifle by your side at March 01, 2024 11:25 AM (xcxpd)

=======

My mommy helped.

https://amzn.to/42YiKFc

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:26 AM (GBKbO)

140 I hate hate hate the myth that government spending spurs innovation or invention.
It does not, can not.

Just because WWII and NASA saw some technology advances, those advances had nothing to do with the government and everything to do with war.

But no one dares argue we should start wars to advance technology.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at March 01, 2024 11:26 AM (u59JI)

141 The locals were conned. By Ford AND the state government into thinking they'd; one, get rich and, two, have an improved quality of life.

Neither of those is true.
Posted by: Martini Farmer

=====
The ironclad rule of the con is that you cannot cheat an honest non-greedy person. If something looks too good to be true--it isn't real. That is why the personal love of money, not money itself is the root of much evil.

Posted by: whig at March 01, 2024 11:26 AM (hKOIV)

142 Per comment upthread, TN sales tax is7%. Local governments can add 2.5 and some cities 2.75. So 9.75 in some locales. Food is taxed at 4%

Posted by: Jen the original at March 01, 2024 11:26 AM (1q8Fq)

143 I don't have a Google account, so I can't watch the stoned dancer.

Sad.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:26 AM (HnUIn)

144 Well, that was a fun, disturbing read....
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:24 AM (7fElN)

Heh. "Copilot".

So basically intended to be a joke, I'm assuming.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:26 AM (9UlRk)

145 Make they can setup the fusion tok in Oakridge.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 01, 2024 11:26 AM (pUIaK)

146 It’s still a hypothetical form of energy production because no one has been able to extract useful energy from it. I dare say no one has designed a method of extracting energy from fusion.

Bombs don’t count because no one uses TNT to power a house.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at March 01, 2024 11:26 AM (++4z6)

147 Destroy the press and you solve many many problems.
Posted by: BChasm Phone

Including destroying the press, a good thing in and of itself. For there is joy in the destruction of the wicked.

Posted by: Ordinary American at March 01, 2024 11:27 AM (LF9Np)

148 Speaking of videogames, early access for preorders of Expeditions today. It's a manly man game but no violence. Some may be familiar with Mudrunner and Snowrunner and this is another of that dynasty. This time you drive across forbidding landscape on scientific expeditions.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at March 01, 2024 11:27 AM (FVME7)

149 They can look at any stadium deal.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:23 AM (HnUIn)

__

Amazing isn't it? Every study every done on this shows tax dollars funding new stadiums is a net loss for the city/county/state doing the funding. Yet every year some new mega stadium is built using the argument that the stadium will produce jobs and increase tax revenue for the city/county/state.

Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:27 AM (bWsRe)

150 There’s a wider view here that shows how stoned this girl is. Definitely bangable, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIQiU_xQuKY
Posted by: Elric Blade at March 01, 2024 11:11 AM (iFTx/)

Cultural Devolution from 1969 - 2024: Visualize that same clip with Lizzo dancing in it.
Posted by: Tom Servo at March 01, 2024 11:19 AM (i9ffA)
_____________

Dylan Mulvaney

Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at March 01, 2024 11:27 AM (ZV+pB)

151 My mommy helped.

https://amzn.to/42YiKFc
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:26 AM (GBKbO)
---
You should let SupremacyAGI (a.k.a. Microsoft's "Co-Pilot") help you write the next one.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:27 AM (7fElN)

152 I hate hate hate the myth that government spending spurs innovation or invention.
It does not, can not.

Just because WWII and NASA saw some technology advances, those advances had nothing to do with the government and everything to do with war.

With all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:27 AM (CsUN+)

153
Ugh.

Fusion is the Monorail of Perpetual Motion.

So, I guess the question is...Who's getting the graft? Cuz they sure ain't producing useful commercial power with fusion.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 01, 2024 11:27 AM (nFnyb)

154 146 Bombs don’t count because no one uses TNT to power a house.
Posted by: MAGA_Ken at March 01, 2024 11:26 AM (++4z6)

========

"My dream died with my second house..."
-Alfred Nobel

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:27 AM (GBKbO)

155 142 Per comment upthread, TN sales tax is7%. Local governments can add 2.5 and some cities 2.75. So 9.75 in some locales. Food is taxed at 4%
Posted by: Jen the original at March 01, 2024 11:26 AM (1q8Fq)

But no state income tax.

Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:27 AM (bWsRe)

156
But no one dares argue we should start wars to advance technology.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice
----------
Bastiat's Broken Window thesis addresses that.

Posted by: whig at March 01, 2024 11:28 AM (hKOIV)

157 Commenting present until lunchtime
Posted by: Skip

You're not gonna eat yer phone, are ya ?

Posted by: JT at March 01, 2024 11:28 AM (T4tVD)

158 Bombs don’t count because no one uses TNT to power a house.

Apparently they're using fuel-air bombs in NoVa suburbs.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:28 AM (CsUN+)

159 129 Far easier and cheaper to just put up solar power satellites and the concept of beaming power back to earth has now been proven it is possible.
Posted by: whig at March 01, 2024 11:23 AM (hKOIV)

Yep, we could have a Maui in every county in every state in the Union.
Posted by: Kindltot at March 01, 2024 11:24 AM (D7oie)

My personal favorite out-there energy theory is that we build the space elevator. The space elevator's cables generate an insane amount of static electricity due to rotating with the earth through the atmosphere. I'm guessing this was a Heinlein thing, as most of my science is Heinlein based.

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:29 AM (5C4od)

160 151 You should let SupremacyAGI (a.k.a. Microsoft's "Co-Pilot") help you write the next one.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:27 AM (7fElN)

=========

I tried to get ChatGPT to write something last year. More of an experiment at how it worked at long form storytelling.

It was a miserable experience where I had to keep rewriting prompts to get something halfway decent for 2,000 words. I couldn't imagine continuing on like that for another 80,000.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:29 AM (GBKbO)

161 It's also a tragedy that we are not moving forward on innovating fission reactors. It seems like there have been some truly promising ideas in the recent past but nothing ever makes it to actual energy production.

And I think they can do it very cleanly now and that the waste disposal issue can be dealt with via breeder reactors? I don't pretend to be current or actually understand the math there.

I do think that at some point in the future, Hillary selling a big chunk of our Uranium to the Russkies is going to be disastrous for us.

Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2024 11:29 AM (z/ifB)

162 112 Foxconn can at least claim that the Dem elected gov. Changed the deal, cause he ran on that to sink Walker. It probably would have still melted down, but Evers wanted it gone more than AOC wanted that Amazon building torpedoed.

Posted by: Bete at March 01, 2024 11:29 AM (LX4y3)

163 6 Taco Bell Crunchy Tacos + 12 Fire Sauce Packets = Nuclear Fission 8 hours later

Posted by: JROD at March 01, 2024 11:30 AM (IlL6s)

164 My personal favorite out-there energy theory is that we build the space elevator. The space elevator's cables generate an insane amount of static electricity due to rotating with the earth through the atmosphere. I'm guessing this was a Heinlein thing, as most of my science is Heinlein based.

I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that such a structure would brake the earth's rotation.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:30 AM (CsUN+)

165 Hang On Sloopy girl >> Sugar Sugar girl

Posted by: Count de Monet at March 01, 2024 11:30 AM (4I/2K)

166 I don't know what any of this has to do with string theory, probably nothing, but I know there are physicists who are at their wits end, that nothing can get funded in their field, UNLESS it involves string theory.

So that's what I thought of, when I see nukular fusion.

It's good for the grift, but the practical world? Not so much.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2024 11:31 AM (dGCAG)

167 Well, that was a fun, disturbing read....
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:24 AM (7fElN)

The Ewoks worshipping C3PO is all I can think of

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:31 AM (5C4od)

168
It was a miserable experience where I had to keep rewriting prompts to get something halfway decent for 2,000 words. I couldn't imagine continuing on like that for another 80,000.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:29 AM (GBKbO)

"Do Wuthering Heights except make everyone an Eskimo".

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:31 AM (9UlRk)

169 I tried to get ChatGPT to write something last year. More of an experiment at how it worked at long form storytelling.

It was a miserable experience where I had to keep rewriting prompts to get something halfway decent for 2,000 words. I couldn't imagine continuing on like that for another 80,000.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:29 AM (GBKbO)
-----
I asked ChatGPT to write a story based on Irish myths. It was painful to read. You could tell there was no "soul" to the story.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:31 AM (7fElN)

170 Room Temp fusion is where the future lies. Given it is at room temp there is not much you can do within it, but it is "fusion" and some government will "invest" provided healthy campaign contributions are made. Not unlike EVs and solar power.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 01, 2024 11:32 AM (pUIaK)

171 AoE2 would be a much better choice.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:18 AM (9UlRk)

========

Nah. Medieval II: Total War.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:19 AM (GBKbO)

But we're stuck playing Risk, and Kramer just said "The Ukraine is Weak!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzqn-bXTq0k

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 01, 2024 11:32 AM (i9ffA)

172 168 "Do Wuthering Heights except make everyone an Eskimo".
Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:31 AM (9UlRk)

========

At some point in the output, ChatGPT would end up saying, "In the style of Wuthering Heights, Eskimo character had a mighty downfall," or something.

It's fucking useless.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:32 AM (GBKbO)

173 I had a weird thing happen to me today. I had to call customer service. Amazingly, I only waited about 2 mins to talk to someone and then my issue was resolved immediately without having to explain myself 17 times.

The rep who helped me? American dude. No accent, his name was actually John not "John". And he understood exactly what my problem was and fixed it in real time, I refreshed my screen and all good.

Weird how that works, huh?

Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:32 AM (bWsRe)

174 I hate hate hate the myth that government spending spurs innovation or invention. ...
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at March 01, 2024 11:26 AM (u59JI)
++++
It can, and calling out "that was war" as an exception is invalid. Governments fight wars, and spur war production and research.

The government *can* spur innovation, it's just usually a fool's errand that fails or wastes more than it returns.

I can think of four examples off the top of my head.
1. Atomic power. The infrastructure and development costs were so stupendous that they were unjustifiable absent the need for a doomsday device.
2. Space-based communications. Without delivery vehicles, this was a non-starter, and like atomics, developing those delivery vehicles were an expense that no private industry would have undertaken from the start
3. The internet. This would almost certainly have happened anyway, it would just look a lot different.
4. Catalytic converters. Without government using it's cudgel, it's unlikely that anyone would have bothered figuring out how to do it. It's stupid, but it "worked."

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:32 AM (HnUIn)

175 Watch: Biden's FBI leads investigative journalist away in cuffs after he exposed J6 lies

https://tinyurl.com/msh559kh

-
Sumbitch didn't know when to keep his mouth shut.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at March 01, 2024 11:32 AM (FVME7)

176 I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that such a structure would brake the earth's rotation.
Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:30 AM (CsUN+)

Spring Forward, Fall More Forward.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:32 AM (9UlRk)

177 >>Hey, remember during W's presidency all those states went out of their way to bankroll embryonic stem cell research because it was going to cure Michale J Fox's Parkinsons, allow Chrstopher Reeve to walk again, and cure cancer?

Good times.
Results?
Posted by: Lizzy at March 01, 2024 11:08 AM

--------------------------------

It turned out that embryonic stem cells cause aggressive cancers. Of course, we pissed away all the allocated funds before this was disclosed. Whoopsie.

Posted by: Bigsmith at March 01, 2024 11:33 AM (QK8qO)

178 I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that such a structure would brake the earth's rotation.
Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:30 AM (CsUN+)

I considered it.
- Rep. Hank "Guam Will Tip Over" Johnson

Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:33 AM (bWsRe)

179 I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that such a structure would brake the earth's rotation.
Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:30 AM (CsUN+)
---
And if the thing ever fell apart, it would completely wreck the planet.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:33 AM (7fElN)

180 140 Well, they don't have to say that now, cause "Russia, Russia, Russia" is good enough. Honestly, the Dems use that to such an extent even 80s Cannon films are like "Damn dude, you're going a bit overdrive on that as a villain."

Posted by: Bete at March 01, 2024 11:34 AM (LX4y3)

181 How are my baby girls?
Ladies been treating you guys alright?
Me, I don't have any disposable income. Yawn.
How's the fuckin war going?

Posted by: Humphreyrobot at March 01, 2024 11:34 AM (J8LnB)

182 For the past 50 years, fusion has been touted as the future of nuclear energy

They have been throwing money at this for decades and never got anywhere with it. Private industry has given up on it.

Posted by: vic at March 01, 2024 11:34 AM (A5THL)

183 Far easier and cheaper to just put up solar power satellites and the concept of beaming power back to earth has now been proven it is possible.
Posted by: whig

***Future News Flash***
Microwave beam control hacked by terrorists, beam currently being directed at all conservative cities and counties with threats to continue until all industry is regressed to circa year 800.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 01, 2024 11:34 AM (b5ztv)

184 Bombs don’t count because no one uses TNT to power a house.
Posted by: MAGA_Ken at March 01, 2024 11:26 AM (++4z6)

but if they did it would be LIT!

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 01, 2024 11:34 AM (i9ffA)

185 It would be easier to build a bridge to Hawaii than to build a space elevator

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:35 AM (9UlRk)

186 I do think that at some point in the future, Hillary selling a big chunk of our Uranium to the Russkies is going to be disastrous for us.
Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2024 11:29 AM (z/ifB)

Especially when Pootin starts sending it back.

No but seriously, this is why I find it mirthful, when people brag on how sciency science is... real science. Stem science.

It seems to me we have the same grifters in the "hard" sciences, doing the government/university two-step, which gets them sinecures and grants and they award each other prices, but nothing of any value ever actually gets done.

WHERE'S MY FLYING CAR??????

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2024 11:35 AM (dGCAG)

187 This happened in my once small-ish city. Real estate developers got city council to relax zoning laws. All in the name of growth that would bring in tax dollars, which could fund schools!! FOR THE CHILDREN!!

All it did was turn our cool little city into a sprawling mess with traffic and crime.

Same playbook.
Posted by: Montec
========
Developer fees for the total cost of new citizens such as sewage, road, and school expansions should be charged for new developments. Local governments actually have a very long payback period over new development costs--the costs are upfront and it takes years for the tax revenues from development to actually pay for extensions to government services.

Posted by: whig at March 01, 2024 11:35 AM (hKOIV)

188 The dancing girl, if alive, would be around 75 years old today.

Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:35 AM (bWsRe)

189 The government *can* spur innovation, it's just usually a fool's errand that fails or wastes more than it returns.

I can think of four examples off the top of my head.
1. Atomic power. The infrastructure and development costs were so stupendous that they were unjustifiable absent the need for a doomsday device.
2. Space-based communications. Without delivery vehicles, this was a non-starter, and like atomics, developing those delivery vehicles were an expense that no private industry would have undertaken from the start
3. The internet. This would almost certainly have happened anyway, it would just look a lot different.
4. Catalytic converters. Without government using it's cudgel, it's unlikely that anyone would have bothered figuring out how to do it. It's stupid, but it "worked."
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:32 AM (HnUIn)

The contrary use of those resources can't really be well seen though. If redirecting investment spending, investment in A means not B. If redirecting consumption, that naturally has immediate consequences like the industrialization of the USSR or China, and may have been done with more pain and less profit.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 01, 2024 11:35 AM (eYoxG)

190 Not all heroes wear capes.

https://tinyurl.com/4ktvkz7n

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at March 01, 2024 11:35 AM (FVME7)

191 148 Speaking of videogames, early access for preorders of Expeditions today. It's a manly man game but no violence. Some may be familiar with Mudrunner and Snowrunner and this is another of that dynasty. This time you drive across forbidding landscape on scientific expeditions.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at March 01, 2024 11:27 AM (FVME7)

If it's not turn based strategy then I'm out. Which means if it's not a version of Civ, Heroes of Might and Magic, or Master of Orion, I'm out.

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:36 AM (5C4od)

192 This sweater-clad redhead is showing off some underboob while wondering why the Department of Energy is funding experimental energy production methods when the agency's actual goal is apparently to make energy production impossible:
http://tiny.cc/9be4xz

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:36 AM (HnUIn)

193 Far easier and cheaper to just put up solar power satellites and the concept of beaming power back to earth has now been proven it is possible.
Posted by: whig

The main problem, other than the "space death beams" political one, is that the transmission efficiency is still many orders of magnitude less than it would need to be. I don't know if they'll ever get it to the point where it would be efficient enough, but I'm sure they're working on it.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:36 AM (CsUN+)

194 178 I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that such a structure would brake the earth's rotation.
Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:30 AM (CsUN+)

I considered it.
- Rep. Hank "Guam Will Tip Over" Johnson
Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:33 AM (bWsRe)

Ooh! Ooh! Hook it up to Guam and then Guam can break loose and fly to the moon!

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 01, 2024 11:36 AM (i9ffA)

195 Commenting present until lunchtime
Posted by: Skip

At least yer not drinking water out of a filthy hoofprint !

Posted by: JT at March 01, 2024 11:36 AM (T4tVD)

196 Without a gravity well, fusion will never be contained and harvested as reliable source for energy.

The physicist cried, "No mas!" because he had his ass handed to him by the Grand Unified Theory.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at March 01, 2024 11:37 AM (EEgXH)

197 This sweater-clad redhead is showing off some underboob while wondering why the Department of Energy is funding experimental energy production methods when the agency's actual goal is apparently to make energy production impossible:
http://tiny.cc/9be4xz
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:36 AM (HnUIn)

She excites my electrons!

Posted by: Count de Monet at March 01, 2024 11:38 AM (4I/2K)

198 I wonder what sort of Muzak they'll play on the space elevator?

Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at March 01, 2024 11:38 AM (ZV+pB)

199 191 148 Speaking of videogames, early access for preorders of Expeditions today. It's a manly man game but no violence. Some may be familiar with Mudrunner and Snowrunner and this is another of that dynasty. This time you drive across forbidding landscape on scientific expeditions.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at March 01, 2024 11:27 AM (FVME7)

If it's not turn based strategy then I'm out. Which means if it's not a version of Civ, Heroes of Might and Magic, or Master of Orion, I'm out.
Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:36 AM (5C4od)

Isn't HoMM dead through mismanagement?

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 01, 2024 11:38 AM (eYoxG)

200 It would be easier to build a bridge to Hawaii than to build a space elevator
Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:35 AM (9UlRk)

...

I don't understand why we don't try to make a liveable base on Antarctica before the moon or Mars.

And if it's clearly impractical and terrible to just try to live there why does that logic not translate easily to hey humans could live on the moon.

Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2024 11:38 AM (z/ifB)

201 The contrary use of those resources can't really be well seen though. If redirecting investment spending, investment in A means not B. If redirecting consumption, that naturally has immediate consequences like the industrialization of the USSR or China, and may have been done with more pain and less profit.

There really is an activation barrier to very expensive, big new technologies, because the costs are local but the eventual profits, should they develop, are dispersed to everyone. There are some things that only government can do.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:39 AM (CsUN+)

202 Does Aasimov talk about space elevators in the Foundation series?

Posted by: Northernlurker at March 01, 2024 11:39 AM (xcrUy)

203 The contrary use of those resources can't really be well seen though. If redirecting investment spending, investment in A means not B. If redirecting consumption, that naturally has immediate consequences like the industrialization of the USSR or China, and may have been done with more pain and less profit.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 01, 2024 11:35 AM (eYoxG)
++++
That wasn't the assertion. The assertion was, "hate hate hate the myth that government spending spurs innovation or invention.
It does not, can not."

It can. It has. It usually fails, but not always and there are some really tremendous examples that demonstrate it.

Whether it's a good idea or if the opportunity costs are worth it is a different point. For atomic energy? Maybe. For catalytic converters? Definitely not. For the internet? Probably - economically, anyway though the social downsides may outweigh it. The experiment on that one is still running.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:39 AM (HnUIn)

204 185 Hey, we built an intercontinental railroad, why not a space elevator as well?

Posted by: Bete at March 01, 2024 11:39 AM (LX4y3)

205 My personal favorite out-there energy theory is that we build the space elevator. The space elevator's cables generate an insane amount of static electricity due to rotating with the earth through the atmosphere. I'm guessing this was a Heinlein thing, as most of my science is Heinlein based.
Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:29 AM (5C4od)

THIS! THIS! Not just the atmosphere but cutting magnetic fields of the Earth and if it is tall enough, of the sun and solar winds.
The last magnetic tether experiment in space was ended bedause the flux was so high it burned the tether up.

Posted by: Kindltot at March 01, 2024 11:40 AM (D7oie)

206 Didn't Biden promise a train to Hawaii?

Posted by: Montec at March 01, 2024 11:40 AM (bWsRe)

207 Space Elevator Broken

Please use Space Stairs

-------->

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:40 AM (9UlRk)

208 Pretty much every single dollar spent by government at the Fed and state level is wasted. Theoretically if they actually spent money on their constitutionally mandated duties it would be money well spent, but certainly at the Fed level that doesn’t happen and I think it’s even rare at the state level

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at March 01, 2024 11:40 AM (Dd+/6)

209 She excites my electrons!
Posted by: Count de Monet

So you are interested in fusion!

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 01, 2024 11:41 AM (b5ztv)

210 ...

I don't understand why we don't try to make a liveable base on Antarctica before the moon or Mars.

And if it's clearly impractical and terrible to just try to live there why does that logic not translate easily to hey humans could live on the moon.
Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2024 11:38 AM (z/ifB)

"We gotta get off-planet before the asteroid hits! Also, where's my immortality drug?"

- Glenn Reynolds, probably

Posted by: Zombie Robbo the Llama Butcher at March 01, 2024 11:41 AM (T+Iwg)

211 THIS! THIS! Not just the atmosphere but cutting magnetic fields of the Earth and if it is tall enough, of the sun and solar winds.
The last magnetic tether experiment in space was ended bedause the flux was so high it burned the tether up.

You mean a lighting rod into the solar wind might have problems?

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:41 AM (CsUN+)

212 In Case Of High Flux
Do NOT Use Space Elevator

Posted by: Count de Monet at March 01, 2024 11:41 AM (4I/2K)

213 Yep, we could have a Maui in every county in every state in the Union.
Posted by: Kindltot
=======
They don't work like that because of the need to put in geosynchronous orbit focused on a receiver site.

To use them as a weapon, you would have to use lower orbits that allow more coverage.

Posted by: whig at March 01, 2024 11:41 AM (hKOIV)

214 Mag Lev is the mode of propulsion for all train travel in the future. Get in on the ground floor. Inter-continental railroad to the Indian Ocean is only 5 years away.

Posted by: Modest Proposal at March 01, 2024 11:41 AM (V5BDR)

215 185 It would be easier to build a bridge to Hawaii than to build a space elevator
Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:35 AM (9UlRk)

I'll be submitting grant proposals for both then

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:41 AM (5C4od)

216 I wonder what sort of Muzak they'll play on the space elevator?
Posted by: Truck Monkey Report

Instrumental David Bowie.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at March 01, 2024 11:42 AM (R4t5M)

217 From what I'm finding Type One Energy's proposals are centered on expertise in stellarator based containment of a potential fusion reaction. By all accounts (per wikipedia) it's a failed model that has been tried since the 60s. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellarator

Posted by: Chairman LMAO, AI Expert at March 01, 2024 11:42 AM (snyZJ)

218 The main problem, other than the "space death beams" political one, is that the transmission efficiency is still many orders of magnitude less than it would need to be. I don't know if they'll ever get it to the point where it would be efficient enough, but I'm sure they're working on it.
Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:36 AM (CsUN+)

———

Someone that designs radars for a living looked at it and concluded that whoever is pushing the transmission of power from space simply does not know how electromagnetic energy propagates. It’s not that it’s hard, it’s that it’s impossible to efficiently do it.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at March 01, 2024 11:42 AM (++4z6)

219
There really is an activation barrier to very expensive, big new technologies, because the costs are local but the eventual profits, should they develop, are dispersed to everyone. There are some things that only government can do.
Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:39 AM (CsUN+)

The willingness of private markets to engage in speculation without any apparent profits, monetization strategy, or proven technologies suggests this is a very high bar however. And the likelihood of grift rather than something with government spending is much higher. Given productivity increases, the investment bar that private capital can achieve goes up steadily too.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 01, 2024 11:42 AM (eYoxG)

220 200 Well. Iran claimed Antarctica so building a base there that is explosion proof would have to be part of the deal.

Posted by: Bete at March 01, 2024 11:42 AM (LX4y3)

221 My personal favorite out-there energy theory is that we build the space elevator. The space elevator's cables generate an insane amount of static electricity due to rotating with the earth through the atmosphere. I'm guessing this was a Heinlein thing, as most of my science is Heinlein based.
Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor

Lunar Launch Rail Gun.
Escape Earth's gravity via rail gun.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2024 11:42 AM (uiWTm)

222 Does Aasimov talk about space elevators in the Foundation series?
Posted by: Northernlurker

All rockets in Foundation trilogy.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 01, 2024 11:43 AM (b5ztv)

223 I've been the most slowly rising comedian in America since 1960!

Posted by: Ronnie Schell at March 01, 2024 11:43 AM (V5BDR)

224 I wonder what sort of Muzak they'll play on the space elevator?
Posted by: Truck Monkey Report

Instrumental David Bowie.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner

Yoko

Posted by: JT at March 01, 2024 11:43 AM (T4tVD)

225 Gone fission.

Am I first to use that??

Posted by: andycanuck (2yu8s) at March 01, 2024 11:43 AM (2yu8s)

226 don't understand why we don't try to make a liveable base on Antarctica before the moon or Mars.

And if it's clearly impractical and terrible to just try to live there why does that logic not translate easily to hey humans could live on the moon.
Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2024 11:38 AM (z/ifB)

Hello, McMurdo Station calling . . .

Posted by: RI Red at March 01, 2024 11:43 AM (2hOms)

227 The government *can* spur innovation, it's just usually a fool's errand that fails or wastes more than it returns.

...

I have wondered why large corporations don't create research conglomerates for these long shot concepts.

No one firm wants to put up the resources and own the risk to figure out [problem x]. But together they could fund at the scale of government, and spread the risk across enough parties to make it amenable to all of them--and they would all then own the tech or the profit from it etc.

The great thing about it would be a more market-based decision process on what sort of long-shot research projects to fund. Rather than some idiot politician dumping 1B on a fantasy.

Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2024 11:43 AM (z/ifB)

228 The government *can* spur innovation, it's just usually a fool's errand that fails or wastes more than it returns.

I can think of four examples off the top of my head.
...
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:32 AM (HnUIn)

Of course, the question remains, what was the cost of letting government get their hands on the tech they helped create by funding it?

I'm not one of those Free Marketeers, who genuflect at the altar of Adam Smith and Selma Hayek, but we can at least speculate, if all those things we now consider advances made by government funding, should they not have WAITED for there to be a commercial value?

Were we actually really for nukular power, the splitting of the atom? Same thing now of course, with the AI garbage and even though nobody talks about it anymore, the cloning of humans and all that.

Should we be dabbling in this stuff? Would any "progress" be made, without government funding it? and if they are, why? What do they intend to do with it? Their track record is VERY spotty, regarding how their innovations actually help humankind.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2024 11:43 AM (dGCAG)

229 I wonder what sort of Muzak they'll play on the space elevator?
Posted by: Truck Monkey Report

It's A Small World After All.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2024 11:44 AM (uiWTm)

230 I expect that wiki article I referenced will be heavily edited if enough investors of the correct political stripe get behind it.

Posted by: Chairman LMAO, AI Expert at March 01, 2024 11:44 AM (snyZJ)

231
I have wondered why large corporations don't create research conglomerates for these long shot concepts.

No one firm wants to put up the resources and own the risk to figure out [problem x]. But together they could fund at the scale of government, and spread the risk across enough parties to make it amenable to all of them--and they would all then own the tech or the profit from it etc.

The great thing about it would be a more market-based decision process on what sort of long-shot research projects to fund. Rather than some idiot politician dumping 1B on a fantasy.
Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2024 11:43 AM (z/ifB)

They do form joint ventures and tech sharing agreements for this purpose.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 01, 2024 11:44 AM (eYoxG)

232 86
‘ every governor wants their own Silicon Valley’
I could get behind that if each SV didn’t come with a bunch leftist fuckheads. That’s the fission I want to see. Separate scientific proficiency from leftism.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at March 01, 2024 11:44 AM (jbnUc)

233 202 Does Aasimov talk about space elevators in the Foundation series?
Posted by: Northernlurker at March 01, 2024 11:39 AM (xcrUy)

Ah yes Asimov, that's where it's from. One of the sequels to 2001 I think

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:45 AM (5C4od)

234 So you are interested in fusion!
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 01, 2024 11:41 AM (b5ztv)

Boy, howdy. I can see it happening now. First, the brilliant flash of light. Then, the rolling thunder.

Posted by: Count de Monet at March 01, 2024 11:45 AM (4I/2K)

235 Mag Lev is the mode of propulsion for all train travel in the future. Get in on the ground floor. Inter-continental railroad to the Indian Ocean is only 5 years away.
Posted by: Modest Proposal at March 01, 2024 11:41 AM (V5BDR)
++++
Mag Lev railroads exist today. China has a bunch of 'em. They are not without their problems.

The biggest problem is that they're unsuitable for freight. They can move people around really fast, but can't do it economically on most routes and they can't meaningfully move freight.

In a country with US population density, high-speed rail is stupid even if we're talking the traditional kind where freight can at least use the infrastructure when bullet trains aren't running on it. Mag Lev is single-purpose, and that single purpose is usually uneconomical and in the United States, will *always* be uneconomical outside of the Accela Corridor, where we already have it and it is still uneconomical because it's run by Amtrak.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:45 AM (HnUIn)

236 Hello, McMurdo Station calling . . .
Posted by: RI Red at March 01, 2024 11:43 AM (2hOms)

...

You're saying its self-contained and self-sustaining?

We have yet to "colonize" Antarctica, unless I missed a memo.

Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2024 11:45 AM (z/ifB)

237 Where will the $223 million that Type One Energy will invest in Tennessee be coming from?

-------------

Kickbacks from Ukrainian Oligarchs?

/only half-joking

Posted by: ShainS -- Laken Riley (Business is business, and it's a murder most foul) at March 01, 2024 11:45 AM (lGeYT)

238 The willingness of private markets to engage in speculation without any apparent profits, monetization strategy, or proven technologies suggests this is a very high bar however. And the likelihood of grift rather than something with government spending is much higher.

In my experience, the private markets will generally wait for a new tech or science to be proven by government-funded research, and only then, when they're convinced it's doable, will they step in and make it commercially viable. Without that initial step, though, not much happens that is truly revolutionary.

Grift? Without question. There is grift in everything the government touches. That doesn't mean the S and T is a bad idea. It means we need to shoot more grifters.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:45 AM (CsUN+)

239 There were a number of promising fusion ideas and designs in the 70s and 80s, but they were abandoned when the Big Climate Scam took hold and sucked up all the oxygen and money.

Think of where fusion would be today if the billions and billions that were flushed down the toilet on "clean energy" scams were instead used on fusion R&D.

It was basically three decades of lost time and money.
Posted by: Elric Blade at March 01, 2024 11:24 AM (iFTx/)

My dad, rest his soul, was a nuclear engineer at one point and was a big believer that we would get to fusion energy in his lifetime. It didn't happen, but it's probably a way better boondoggle than hydro energy in the desert or wind energy in the deep south...

Posted by: Nova Local at March 01, 2024 11:46 AM (exHjb)

240 Whoops I meant Clarke - pretty sure it was 2021?

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:46 AM (5C4od)

241 175 Watch: Biden's FBI leads investigative journalist away in cuffs after he exposed J6 lies

https://tinyurl.com/msh559kh

They told him to appear properly attired for an orange suit and handcuffs. Absurd and unnecessary, all for show. Brutes, tyrants.

Posted by: Ordinary American at March 01, 2024 11:46 AM (LF9Np)

242 I have wondered why large corporations don't create research conglomerates for these long shot concepts.

No one firm wants to put up the resources and own the risk to figure out [problem x]. But together they could fund at the scale of government, and spread the risk across enough parties to make it amenable to all of them--and they would all then own the tech or the profit from it etc.

The great thing about it would be a more market-based decision process on what sort of long-shot research projects to fund. Rather than some idiot politician dumping 1B on a fantasy.
Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2024 11:43 AM (z/ifB)

It's just easier to have government in bed with corporations. If you want fascism, that is, because this is how you get fascism.

And if we're putting up the "You Are Here" sign, the arrow points right there, right now, to the big letter F.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2024 11:46 AM (dGCAG)

243 And now, from Bassackwards World . . .

School Defends Trans Basketball Player Accused of Hurting Opposing Girls, Condemns “Harmful” Criticism

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at March 01, 2024 11:46 AM (FVME7)

244 Ah yes Asimov, that's where it's from. One of the sequels to 2001 I think
--------
2034¼ I think.

Posted by: andycanuck (2yu8s) at March 01, 2024 11:47 AM (2yu8s)

245 They do form joint ventures and tech sharing agreements for this purpose.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 01, 2024 11:44 AM (eYoxG)

Yeah, and mostly at some university.

I guess I'm wanting them to take on the kind of Fermi Labs kind of role, and get government out of it.

Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2024 11:47 AM (z/ifB)

246 >>> 160 151 You should let SupremacyAGI (a.k.a. Microsoft's "Co-Pilot") help you write the next one.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:27 AM (7fElN)

=========

I tried to get ChatGPT to write something last year. More of an experiment at how it worked at long form storytelling.

It was a miserable experience where I had to keep rewriting prompts to get something halfway decent for 2,000 words. I couldn't imagine continuing on like that for another 80,000.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:29 AM (GBKbO)

Is this about me?

Posted by: Rangz of Power at March 01, 2024 11:47 AM (llON8)

247 don't understand why we don't try to make a liveable base on Antarctica before the moon or Mars.

And if it's clearly impractical and terrible to just try to live there why does that logic not translate easily to hey humans could live on the moon.
Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2024 11:38 AM (z/ifB)

Hello, McMurdo Station calling . . .
Posted by: RI Red at March 01, 2024 11:43 AM (2hOms)

I don’t think anyone will do that after watching Kurt Russell in The Thing

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at March 01, 2024 11:47 AM (Dd+/6)

248 Remember... There'll always be that one guy on the space elevator who'll stare at you (uncomfortably) until you reach your space floor

Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at March 01, 2024 11:47 AM (ZV+pB)

249 Ben Bova wrote about a space elevator in his book "Mercury".

Japanese and muzzies terrorists blew it up at the midpoint, causing the lower half to crash down westward from Ecuador, across the Pacific, across Africa, and into the Atlantic halfway across.

The top half spun off into space.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at March 01, 2024 11:48 AM (ufFY8)

250 >>> 168
==
"Do Wuthering Heights except make everyone an Eskimo".
Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:31 AM (9UlRk)

*imagines Kate Bush dancing around in a giant parka, singing about Heathcliff*

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at March 01, 2024 11:48 AM (llON8)

251 244 Ah yes Asimov, that's where it's from. One of the sequels to 2001 I think
--------
2034¼ I think.
Posted by: andycanuck (2yu8s) at March 01, 2024 11:47 AM (2yu8s)

There we go

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:48 AM (5C4od)

252 112 Foxconn can at least claim that the Dem elected gov. Changed the deal, cause he ran on that to sink Walker. It probably would have still melted down, but Evers wanted it gone more than AOC wanted that Amazon building torpedoed.
Posted by: Bete at March 01, 2024 11:29 AM (LX4y3)
---------

Here's the kicker: Tony "I drive a hard bargain" Evers loosened up the requirements so that FOXCONN ended up getting more tax credits than the original deal would have allowed.

Posted by: WisRich at March 01, 2024 11:48 AM (G0vdT)

253 The main problem, other than the "space death beams" political one, is that the transmission efficiency is still many orders of magnitude less than it would need to be. I don't know if they'll ever get it to the point where it would be efficient enough, but I'm sure they're working on it.
Posted by: Archimedes

Yes, it is at the proof of concept stage which has now proven that it CAN be done. Whether it should and can be done economically includes a whole lot of engineering work rather than theory work. My comments were in comparison with fusion where right now we don't even know if one can run continuously without the input of vast amounts of power. Much tougher engineering problem.

I prefer mini nuclear power plants myself of the modern design that passively shut down if there is a problem. That is a trivial engineering problem compared to space based solar satellites or fusion power. And reprocessing fuel should be done via breeder reactors.

And mini reactors too have political problems on deployment because EEEK Meltdown or icky Nukes make everything radioactive.

Posted by: whig at March 01, 2024 11:48 AM (hKOIV)

254 The problem is that there is no market. There is only the Public Private Complex.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at March 01, 2024 11:49 AM (9UlRk)

255 In my experience, the private markets will generally wait for a new tech or science to be proven by government-funded research, and only then, when they're convinced it's doable, will they step in and make it commercially viable. Without that initial step, though, not much happens that is truly revolutionary.

Grift? Without question. There is grift in everything the government touches. That doesn't mean the S and T is a bad idea. It means we need to shoot more grifters.
Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:45 AM (CsUN+)

Venture capital is mostly unproven or dubious stuff. Looks like that runs about $200 billion in new investment annually.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 01, 2024 11:49 AM (eYoxG)

256 I bet a space elevator would have some neat resonant frequencies to deal with.

Posted by: Nikki Haley's luxuriously hairy nipples - Alex Jones Was Right at March 01, 2024 11:49 AM (Yui9f)

257 It can be lunch time

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2024 11:49 AM (NdrtD)

258 Honestly, fusion doesn't even make the top 100 of undesirable things the government could be spending money on. Gain-of-function, various attempts to pay foreigners to adopt American mental illnesses (remember Obama going to Africa to teach his people how to buttsex?), trains, and a zillion other things come ahead of that.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 01, 2024 11:49 AM (2ocoG)

259 101
‘AoE2 would be a much better choice.’
As much as I enjoy AoE2, I am going with HOI4 on this one.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at March 01, 2024 11:50 AM (jbnUc)

260 Gotta wonder what the moon's orbit would do to a space elevator.

Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2024 11:50 AM (z/ifB)

261 I have wondered why large corporations don't create research conglomerates for these long shot concepts. ...
Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2024 11:43 AM (z/ifB)
++++
They do, and it has taken various forms. Companies often team up on experimental research, but it isn't open-ended.

A somewhat-common model used to be for companies to run "innovation factories" for pure research. Two prime examples are Bell Laboratories (which has an asterisk next to it, because it was private but AT&T was a chartered monopoly with lots of special rules) and RCA Laboratories, which was modeled directly on Bell Labs.

The "X Laboratories" model is predicated on the idea that research *always* pays off, even if in unexpected ways. Heinlein was a big proponent of this concept in some of his works. That predicate is not true. Research is never "pure." There is always money. There is always politics. There are always empires and scheming. The sunk cost fallacy never vanishes.

RCA Labs played a big role in killing RCA. Bell Labs proved to be unsustainable when Ma Bell was broken up.

Companies have largely learned the lesson. Research - even ambitious research - is scope-limited.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:50 AM (HnUIn)

262 Ah yes Asimov, that's where it's from. One of the sequels to 2001 I think
--------
2034¼ I think.
Posted by: andycanuck (2yu8s) at March 01, 2024 11:47 AM (2yu8s)

Duck Dodgers in the 24-1/2th Century!

Posted by: Daffy Duck at March 01, 2024 11:50 AM (4I/2K)

263 245 They do form joint ventures and tech sharing agreements for this purpose.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 01, 2024 11:44 AM (eYoxG)

Yeah, and mostly at some university.

I guess I'm wanting them to take on the kind of Fermi Labs kind of role, and get government out of it.
Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2024 11:47 AM (z/ifB)

The government is happy to pick up the tab, why would private business pay for that? Engineering problems like fracking that the government won't subsidize they'll pay for sure, but something the government is already paying for?

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 01, 2024 11:51 AM (eYoxG)

264 How are my baby girls?
Ladies been treating you guys alright?
Me, I don't have any disposable income. Yawn.
How's the fuckin war going?
Posted by: Humphreyrobot at March 01, 2024 11:34 AM (J8LnB)

I love slam poetry. It is so real, so now, so heartfelt

Posted by: Kindltot at March 01, 2024 11:51 AM (D7oie)

265 Assuming that commercially viable fusion power is engineered into existence, has anyone - ever - said where the hydrogen is gonna come from? Seems like I've seen a lot of articles pumping up fusion power saying that they'd only need a tiny amount of hydrogen... which may be true at any given instance in time but likely isn't true in order to produce necessary amounts to be useful.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at March 01, 2024 11:51 AM (1Z8zZ)

266 In my experience, the private markets will generally wait for a new tech or science to be proven by government-funded research, and only then, when they're convinced it's doable, will they step in and make it commercially viable.

--

Self-licking lollipop.

All that sweet, sweet grant money allows the same folks to put the failures on the taxpayers and then the same people will celebrate yay, we did it and suddenly it's their tech.

Posted by: Nikki Haley's luxuriously hairy nipples - Alex Jones Was Right at March 01, 2024 11:51 AM (Yui9f)

267 I bet a space elevator would have some neat resonant frequencies to deal with.
Posted by: Nikki Haley's luxuriously hairy nipples - Alex Jones Was Right at March 01, 2024 11:49 AM (Yui9f)

...

I'm sure it will be fine.

Posted by: Tacoma Narrows Bridge at March 01, 2024 11:51 AM (z/ifB)

268 I have wondered why large corporations don't create research conglomerates for these long shot concepts.

No one firm wants to put up the resources and own the risk to figure out [problem x]. But together they could fund at the scale of government, and spread the risk across enough parties to make it amenable to all of them--and they would all then own the tech or the profit from it etc....

They do form joint ventures and tech sharing agreements for this purpose.

I'm drawing a blank on the name, but in the 90s, America's semiconductor manufacturers did exactly that. The main problem is that everyone wants to put in the least amount of people, money, and ideas, in order to get a jump on their competition. The only entity that can circumvent that problem is the government, whose scientists have relatively little to gain personally. *ask me how I know*
Even academia now has legions of startups from their better professors developing off of previous government-funded research.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:51 AM (CsUN+)

269 Didn't/doesn't permanent government employee Fauci personally collect big royalties for his government blessings on taxpayer funded research?

Posted by: Nikki Haley's luxuriously hairy nipples - Alex Jones Was Right at March 01, 2024 11:52 AM (Yui9f)

270 I prefer mini nuclear power plants myself of the modern design that passively shut down if there is a problem. That is a trivial engineering problem compared to space based solar satellites or fusion power. And reprocessing fuel should be done via breeder reactors.

And mini reactors too have political problems on deployment because EEEK Meltdown or icky Nukes make everything radioactive.

Same. But I think all of the political problems are ultimately just excuses for "it would actually fix both global warming and the unreliable grid all at once", and politicians don't want those solved. At least not until Bill Gates gets his 7.5 billion deaths that he's looking for.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 01, 2024 11:52 AM (2ocoG)

271 private markets will generally wait for a new tech or science to be proven by government-funded research, and only then, when they're convinced it's doable, will they step in and make it commercially viable.

If only fusion would apply to pr0n!

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the Struggle to maintain Moron standards at March 01, 2024 11:52 AM (qmyv4)

272 265 Assuming that commercially viable fusion power is engineered into existence, has anyone - ever - said where the hydrogen is gonna come from? Seems like I've seen a lot of articles pumping up fusion power saying that they'd only need a tiny amount of hydrogen... which may be true at any given instance in time but likely isn't true in order to produce necessary amounts to be useful.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at March 01, 2024 11:51 AM (1Z8zZ)

The appeal of nuclear energy, fusion or fission, is the fuel requirements are small for large amounts of energy.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 01, 2024 11:53 AM (eYoxG)

273 260 Gotta wonder what the moon's orbit would do to a space elevator.
Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2024 11:50 AM (z/ifB)

See these are fun questions to spend eleventy billion dollars on. Much better than social justice naval gazing

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:53 AM (5C4od)

274 Secretary Butt-gigitty has a firm hand on the tiller.

FAA Gives Boeing 90 Days to Develop Plan to Address Quality Issues

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at March 01, 2024 11:53 AM (FVME7)

275 Nuclear fusion? I'm still waiting on my flying car.

Posted by: Ripley at March 01, 2024 11:54 AM (JojsZ)

276 265 Assuming that commercially viable fusion power is engineered into existence, has anyone - ever - said where the hydrogen is gonna come from? Seems like I've seen a lot of articles pumping up fusion power saying that they'd only need a tiny amount of hydrogen... which may be true at any given instance in time but likely isn't true in order to produce necessary amounts to be useful.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at March 01, 2024 11:51 AM (1Z8zZ)

You take problems one at a time...you don't need to worry about problem 2 if you haven't solved problem 1...

Posted by: Nova Local at March 01, 2024 11:54 AM (exHjb)

277 The government is happy to pick up the tab, why would private business pay for that? Engineering problems like fracking that the government won't subsidize they'll pay for sure, but something the government is already paying for?
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 01, 2024 11:51 AM (eYoxG)

Yep, you're right.

BTW I have a theory that fracking is a net good when it comes to earthquakes. We're incrementally releasing strain in the rock that was already there, and potentially therefore eliminating future big shocks.

Posted by: Tacoma Narrows Bridge at March 01, 2024 11:54 AM (z/ifB)

278 My personal favorite out-there energy theory is that we build the space elevator. The space elevator's cables generate an insane amount of static electricity due to rotating with the earth through the atmosphere. I'm guessing this was a Heinlein thing, as most of my science is Heinlein based.

-

Having participated in projects that involved long strings of steel, I'm hesitant to believe that any known material could be strung that distance. The physics are impossible, due to weight and structural integrity.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at March 01, 2024 11:54 AM (lTGtQ)

279 I think you've been snookered by the federal government - both Oak Ridge and the Same Brinton crowd.

Posted by: L - We're done for now. We just don't have the guts to turn off the lights on the show at March 01, 2024 11:54 AM (GshMh)

280 The only really big venture capital thing going that I know of is AI, and that's only because they think they can take over the world with it.

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 01, 2024 11:54 AM (e7n2t)

281 So Tennessee will become the duel sun

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2024 11:54 AM (NdrtD)

282 Maglev monorail was constructed on the ODU campus in Norfolk around the turn of the century. It never worked and demoiltion of the track finally started last year. $$$$ wasted!

Posted by: Boondoggle at March 01, 2024 11:55 AM (V5BDR)

283 Sooper dooper uninvented super conductor metal !!

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the Struggle to maintain Moron standards at March 01, 2024 11:55 AM (qmyv4)

284 IIRC the US Army is, or was, looking at portable mini nuclear reactors, about the size of a semi-truck trailer, with all the gear needed to run.

Portable power stations. To replace the huge number of traditional diesel generators they currently lug around.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at March 01, 2024 11:55 AM (Q4IgG)

285 I wonder what sort of Muzak they'll play on the space elevator?
Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at March 01, 2024 11:38 AM (ZV+pB)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYQysdeWEKI&t

Posted by: Kindltot at March 01, 2024 11:55 AM (D7oie)

286 Venture capital is mostly unproven or dubious stuff. Looks like that runs about $200 billion in new investment annually.

VCs don't fund basic research, they fund widgets and software, and they most definitely want to see a compelling business case for why it's a good investment.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:55 AM (CsUN+)

287 Venture capital is mostly unproven or dubious stuff. Looks like that runs about $200 billion in new investment annually.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 01, 2024 11:49 AM (eYoxG)

My understanding is, venture capital is when the big banks and billionaires (BIRM) go into third world shithole countries, extract the resources, and leave behind when they go, a few decrepit schools and/or water treatment plants.

Now, sometimes a left wing government will overthrow the bought and paid for regime, or the third world shithole operation will go belly up because it was a "bad investment" in the first place, with little return, and when those things happen we get the IMF to bail out the "venture capitalists" so they don't lose anything of their precious "investments."

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2024 11:55 AM (dGCAG)

288 280. And Wisconsin...laughing all the way to the bank.

Posted by: L - We're done for now. We just don't have the guts to turn off the lights on the show at March 01, 2024 11:55 AM (GshMh)

289 278 Having participated in projects that involved long strings of steel, I'm hesitant to believe that any known material could be strung that distance. The physics are impossible, due to weight and structural integrity.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at March 01, 2024 11:54 AM (lTGtQ)

=======

I think the idea is that someday, some material will be developed which can handle it, and it'll be manufactured on an asteroid which will lower down the cable from orbit.

I mean...if without the handwave away of the materials, that's a long way in the future.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, raging against the bourgeois with Pasolini at March 01, 2024 11:56 AM (GBKbO)

290 Having participated in projects that involved long strings of steel, I'm hesitant to believe that any known material could be strung that distance. The physics are impossible, due to weight and structural integrity.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at March 01, 2024 11:54 AM (lTGtQ)

Coat the steel cables with Flex Seal?

Posted by: TV Pitchman at March 01, 2024 11:56 AM (4I/2K)

291 Yes, it is at the proof of concept stage which has now proven that it CAN be done. Whether it should and can be done economically includes a whole lot of engineering work rather than theory work.

—/—-

Whig your wrong there is no theory that power transmission at those distances can be efficient. In fact it’s just the opposite. It simply goes against the known physics of electromagnetic waves.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at March 01, 2024 11:56 AM (++4z6)

292 Having participated in projects that involved long strings of steel, I'm hesitant to believe that any known material could be strung that distance. The physics are impossible, due to weight and structural integrity.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at March 01, 2024 11:54 AM (lTGtQ)

I don't doubt it. Which is why we need the eleventy billion dollar grant to figure it out. Yes I take checks

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 11:57 AM (5C4od)

293 My personal favorite out-there energy theory is that we build the space elevator.

And then you have the problem of a diversity hire plowing a 757 into the cable.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 01, 2024 11:57 AM (2ocoG)

294 Whig your wrong there is no theory that power transmission at those distances can be efficient. In fact it’s just the opposite. It simply goes against the known physics of electromagnetic waves.
Posted by: MAGA_Ken at March 01, 2024 11:56 AM (++4z6)
---
So invent some NEW physics! With hookers! and blackjack!

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 01, 2024 11:57 AM (7fElN)

295 276 265 Assuming that commercially viable fusion power is engineered into existence, has anyone - ever - said where the hydrogen is gonna come from?

Electrolysis of water. That takes lots of power, but successful fusion would more than make up for it.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:58 AM (CsUN+)

296 >>> 293
==
And then you have the problem of a diversity hire plowing a 757 into the cable.
Posted by: Ian S. at March 01, 2024 11:57 AM (2ocoG)

Allah Akbar!

*crash*

Posted by: Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed at March 01, 2024 11:58 AM (llON8)

297 Whig your wrong there is no theory that power transmission at those distances can be efficient. In fact it’s just the opposite. It simply goes against the known physics of electromagnetic waves.
Posted by: MAGA_Ken at March 01, 2024 11:56 AM (++4z6)
++++
Inverse squares are a bitch and a half.

But start with a big enough source, and the losses won't prevent it from functioning. The total system efficiency is awful, but if you're in a position where that doesn't mater, well ...

But I have no idea if that much energy could be accumulated for transmission. I doubt it, but I haven't looked into it at all recently.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:58 AM (HnUIn)

298 The physics are impossible, due to weight and structural integrity.

Integrity never stopped me!!
- Joey Stinkfinger

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the Struggle to maintain Moron standards at March 01, 2024 11:58 AM (qmyv4)

299 Will the Space Elevator have a 13,000th floor?

Posted by: Cautious Cal at March 01, 2024 11:58 AM (V5BDR)

300 solar power satellites and the concept of beaming power back to earth has now been proven it is possible.
Posted by: whig

It's always about the death rays with us Morons.

Posted by: DaveA at March 01, 2024 11:59 AM (FhXTo)

301 287

My understanding is, venture capital is when the big banks and billionaires (BIRM) go into third world shithole countries, extract the resources, and leave behind when they go, a few decrepit schools and/or water treatment plants.

Now, sometimes a left wing government will overthrow the bought and paid for regime, or the third world shithole operation will go belly up because it was a "bad investment" in the first place, with little return, and when those things happen we get the IMF to bail out the "venture capitalists" so they don't lose anything of their precious "investments."
Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2024 11:55 AM (dGCAG)

Investing in third world is "emerging markets" investing. VC is mostly US tech stuff. Blockchain, Uber, crypto, AI. It's basically the category for startups.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 01, 2024 11:59 AM (eYoxG)

302 We need a new steel then.

Mister, we could use a man like Hank Rearden again.

Posted by: Count de Monet at March 01, 2024 11:59 AM (4I/2K)

303 Odysseus lying on its side sounds like a CBD art thread post. Probably a naked fat guy on a ship with Sirens in the background, top less. And first comment would be about banging the Siren, even if the commentor would be eaten afterwards.

Posted by: Bete

DRAW ME LIKE ONE OF YOUR FRENCH PROBES

Posted by: Odysseus at March 01, 2024 11:59 AM (OUMaO)

304 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at March 01, 2024 11:59 AM (IXZGh)

305 Having participated in projects that involved long strings of steel, I'm hesitant to believe that any known material could be strung that distance. The physics are impossible, due to weight and structural integrity.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at March 01, 2024 11:54 AM (lTGtQ)

=======

I think the idea is that someday, some material will be developed which can handle it, and it'll be manufactured on an asteroid which will lower down the cable from orbit.

It's usually assumed that we would use bundles of continuous carbon nanotubes. I haven't seen the math, but many people think they have sufficient strength to do the job.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:59 AM (CsUN+)

306 There really is an activation barrier to very expensive, big new technologies, because the costs are local but the eventual profits, should they develop, are dispersed to everyone. There are some things that only government can do.
Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 11:39 AM (CsUN+)

which is why we needed the government to fund development of the steam engine, the internal combustion engine, hydropower, medicine, Bessemer steel production, the electric power distribution system, the telephone . . .

I disagree with you in other words. Government funding of science misdirects money and effort away from developing technology and puts it towards "pursuing grants" and unfortunately it pursues grants that some bureaucrat wants for his own reasons, which may or may not have anything to do with why anyone sane would want it.

Posted by: Kindltot at March 01, 2024 12:00 PM (D7oie)

307 The only really big venture capital thing going that I know of is AI, and that's only because they think they can take over the world with it.
Posted by: Tom Servo at March 01, 2024 11:54 AM (e7n2t)

I'm pretty sure "AI" is mostly a con, that there really isn't any actual artificial intelligence going on.

Even so, I'm as certain as I am of anything, any actual research being done with it is being controlled by the three letter agencies. Which, when we see the Defense Department failing audits, where hundreds of billions of dollars can't be accounted for, I'm assuming three letter agencies are no longer separate in any meaningful way from the Pentagram... er, I mean Pentagon.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2024 12:00 PM (dGCAG)

308 nood

Posted by: vic at March 01, 2024 12:00 PM (A5THL)

309 Texas is another state looking into the fusion realm for energy production.

As I understand it, they're already fueling a small town in south Texas somewhere with it.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at March 01, 2024 12:00 PM (IXZGh)

310 299 Will the Space Elevator have a 13,000th floor?
Posted by: Cautious Cal at March 01, 2024 11:58 AM (V5BDR)

Yes but it is unmarked. The door to John Malkovich's brain is there.

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 12:00 PM (5C4od)

311 Nuclear fusion currently has 43 private companies working on it, 14 startups had funding rounds in 2023.

Will they all go bankrupt eventually? Probably, but that's what VC is like. Trying to hit home runs.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 01, 2024 12:01 PM (eYoxG)

312 If I split two hotdogs and toss them into a sizzling hot skillet with onions, place the contents of the skillet on a toasted ciabatta roll with cheese, pickles and mustard, is that sandwich or a little slice of heaven?

Posted by: Dr. Bone at March 01, 2024 12:01 PM (EEgXH)

313 NOODlum.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at March 01, 2024 12:01 PM (IXZGh)

314 Inverse squares are a bitch and a half.

But start with a big enough source, and the losses won't prevent it from functioning. The total system efficiency is awful, but if you're in a position where that doesn't mater, well ...

But I have no idea if that much energy could be accumulated for transmission. I doubt it, but I haven't looked into it at all recently.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at March 01, 2024 11:58 AM (HnUIn)

———-

Efficiency is what we are talking about.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at March 01, 2024 12:02 PM (++4z6)

315 Venture capital is mostly unproven or dubious stuff

Worked for a software startup. It was a joke.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the Struggle to maintain Moron standards at March 01, 2024 12:02 PM (K66ud)

316 Investing in third world is "emerging markets" investing. VC is mostly US tech stuff. Blockchain, Uber, crypto, AI. It's basically the category for startups.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 01, 2024 11:59 AM (eYoxG)

Yeah, I figured there was some distinction being made here, but I don't care.

Grifters, the lot of them. They should all be made to slide up the down pole. Which is covered in red ants.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2024 12:02 PM (dGCAG)

317 Having done a deep dive into energy physics, space, metallurgy, and pale creamy underboobs, it's time for my haircut.

Gentlemen! I bid you adieu.

Posted by: Count de Monet at March 01, 2024 12:03 PM (4I/2K)

318 Whig your wrong there is no theory that power transmission at those distances can be efficient. In fact it’s just the opposite. It simply goes against the known physics of electromagnetic waves.
Posted by: MAGA_Ken

They already done a demo project doing it. Caltech SSPD-1 satellite.

https://tinyurl.com/5974tud2
Goes to Space dot com.

"In a video from Caltech, Hajimiri, who led the Caltech that developed MAPLE, explained how the wireless transmission of energy through space is based on a quantum phenomenon called 'interference.'"

Posted by: whig at March 01, 2024 12:04 PM (hKOIV)

319 Excellent work here gentlemen. I will advise you all on the progress of our carbon tube space elevator static electricity death ray grant proposal. I expect the checks to be in the mail shortly.

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at March 01, 2024 12:04 PM (5C4od)

320 which is why we needed the government to fund development of the steam engine, the internal combustion engine, hydropower, medicine, Bessemer steel production, the electric power distribution system, the telephone . . .

How much more quickly might they have been developed if the people working on those technologies could have focused exclusively on that rather than, you know, making a living? Furthermore, those things were developed in an age when much of the work could done my one person. Those days are largely over. Modern science is usually simply too complicated for lone rangers. Again, ask me how I know.

I'm not saying government science is perfect, but like most things, going to either extreme rarely works out well.

Posted by: Archimedes at March 01, 2024 12:05 PM (CsUN+)

321 They're hoping Soros' D.A.s will refuse to enforce the laws of physics. Easy-peasy.

Posted by: andycanuck (2yu8s) at March 01, 2024 12:05 PM (2yu8s)

322 It's always about the death rays with us Morons.
Posted by: DaveA
=====
There are plenty of ways to fry a human using physics. Not so much to actually generate useful power.

Posted by: whig at March 01, 2024 12:06 PM (hKOIV)

323 WTF is ace doing up at 12:06??

Posted by: andycanuck (2yu8s) at March 01, 2024 12:06 PM (2yu8s)

324 Oh, you disbelievers! Don't you realise they just haven't found 'The Right PEOPLE!' to implement fusion ... ? You are such skeptiques ... look at what Pons and Fleischman accomplished ... wait ... never mind: Look at that Swiss experiment with the Tokamak ... what? ... it's not operational yet ... ? Well never mind. This project has very adequate funding and ... oh, quit bitching about sales tax on groceries, will you? Look, it will work. The guy with the folding table and a deck of cards down at the street corner said it will ... want to place a bet?

Posted by: Dr_No at March 01, 2024 12:16 PM (ayRl+)

325
Tennessee's fusion "investment" reminds of California's (under Gov. Terminator) investment in gene therapy.

It'll probably be as successful.

Posted by: comradearthur at March 01, 2024 01:10 PM (sHuIA)

326 This is Esteban. For only 10 cents a day, you can support this poor Venezuelan crack addict's dick pic forwarding business.

Posted by: Sally Struthers at March 01, 2024 01:17 PM (Zz86T)

327 Outstanding as always, Buck. The world outside east Tenn. would never know about the fusion boondoggle.

Posted by: OBAGeezer at March 01, 2024 01:35 PM (C8ve7)

328 Type One Energy must have one hell of a business plan for a start-up to receive funds for a technology that is always ten years away.

Posted by: KungPow at March 01, 2024 02:01 PM (Rw2Dy)

329 Ah yes, Governor Bill Lee. Yet another member of the CHAMBER OF COMMERCE Good-Ole-Boy Club that's given us such medicore excutives in some of the reddest states in the country. From Tate "Tater" Reeves in MS, to Bill Lee in TN and finally Brian Kemp in GA. What a trio those three are and not a true conservative among them. And Kay Ivy of AL is a pledge in that frat.
I can't speak for other states outside the South, but down here the CHAMBER OF COMMERCE calls the shots over using parliamentarian schemes to change state flags and decide which candidate gets an open U.S. Senate seat, when there's a vacancy. The CHAMBER is everything to the GOP in the South, because they are nothing more than a slush fund for the GOP in the South. I hope to see the entire CHAMBER in each of our lovely Southern states raided, investigated and shut down, as they are nothing more than criminal front companies that shore up politicians and lobbyists contolled by big donors and former state politicians. They despise champions like President Trump and Tea Party leaders like Chris McDaniel and work to defeat them. They are enemies of America and MAGA.

Posted by: Tracy at March 01, 2024 02:42 PM (425E8)

330 Fusion, by contrast, is a still hypothetical form of energy production from fusing together the nuclei of two atoms into one.
Wrong, Buck. It's not hypothetical, at all. The sun produces gazillions of ergs of energy every day using it. We've used it to create a LOT of energy places like Bikini Atoll.

What it is, is currently uncontrollable and unconvertable energy. We can make it go boom but not sizzle.

Posted by: GWB at March 01, 2024 04:56 PM (ANsAt)

331 Ughhhh. Yeah, TN is my home, but the gov't is far more left than the people. We have some decent ones, but far more not that great ones. In TN, we should be covered with great ones.

Anonymous Conservative says its the Cabal. I'm inclined to agree. TN should naturally be, like water flows downhill to a still, be conservative in its politics.

Its like Lib states go big, actual Conservative states mostly do little. Part of that is of course, Boomers, and also RINO Establishment Libertarians, and GRIFT, but I still think its likely we have a fair number of Special Friends of Jeffrey Epstein in power.

Sigh. Now I want to go pound something into a wall until something breaks. GRRR.

Posted by: Eric2 at March 01, 2024 05:26 PM (hSVY4)

332 "Whether nuclear fusion is as unobtainable as perpetual motion, or ..."

Hey, don't knock Perpetual Motion. Look up the Bessler Wheel. It's doable...

Posted by: As not seen on TV at March 01, 2024 06:17 PM (axtzy)

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Posted by: Hipofiz adenomu at March 09, 2024 03:38 PM (4lRz3)

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