Sunday Morning Book Thread - 12-10-2023 ["Perfessor" Squirrel]

Welcome to the prestigious, internationally acclaimed, stately, and illustrious Sunday Morning Book Thread! The place where all readers are welcome, regardless of whatever guilty pleasure we feel like reading (Remarkably, there were no pictures of politicians...). Here is where we can discuss, argue, bicker, quibble, consider, debate, confabulate, converse, and jaw about our latest fancy in reading material. As always, pants are required, unless you are wearing these pants...

So relax, find yourself a warm kitty (or warm puppy--I won't judge) to curl up in your lap, spin that dreidel, and dive into a new book. What are YOU reading this fine morning?

NOTE: I will not be around on today's Sunday Morning Book Thread as I volunteered to assist at church this morning, which means I need to get there early. I'm learning how to run the tech behind the scenes. Please be nice to one another!

PIC NOTE

Happy Hannukah to our Jewish friends on the blog! No doubt this time of year is particularly difficult for you all because of the rise in anti-Semitism and the continuing war in Gaza for the future of Israel. I am praying for you. I don't know much about Judaism or Hannukah. I do know that Jewish history is vast, complicated, and filled with both tragedy and triumph. One of the things I admire most about Judaism is its commitment to tradition and preserving the history, going back thousands and thousands of years. Few other cultures on Earth can make that claim and even fewer hold the past in such spiritual reverence.

COVERS LIE

As I was putting together the content for this week's Sunday Morning Book Thread, I was searching for images of Phillip José Farmer's The Dark Design. I came across an old image of one of the paperback editions that caught my eye. Another cover image for the same book also caught my eye for similar reasons. Both feature a rather significant deviation from the source material, which you would not know unless you read the books.

In the first book, the main character is the famous explorer Richard Francis Burton. In the second book, the main character is Sam "Mark Twain" Clemens. Both men featured glorious mustaches in real life. However, in the Riverworld, where these stories take place, everyone in history has been resurrected into a 25-year-old copy of their former selves with one key difference: MEN DO NOT GROW FACIAL HAIR! Every single man on the Riverworld is bare-faced with neither mustache nor beard. Naturally, this drives the Muslims a bit crazier than usual because they believe they have a holy obligation to sport beards.

It's a small discrepancy, but it is noticeable if you've read the first two books. Also, The image on the right appears to depict Richard Francis Burton wearing the outfit of an "explorer." In the books, both Sam Clemens and Richard Burton wear the local version of clothes, which involves kilts and towels held together with magnetic tabs. I can understand why the artist(s) made these decisions, however, as you can recognize both Sam Clemens and Richard Burton on the cover as the "main character."

A more egregious example is when the cover doesn't have any relation with the subject matter inside. In the cover on the left below, you can see an image of my original cover for Raymond E. Feist's A Darkness at Sethanon. I can confirm that the image depicted is accurate to a significant scene in the book. The image on the right, however, has NO bearing on the content of the book. That scene is to be found nowhere in the book. I had to buy new copies of The Riftwar Saga because all of mine had become worn out. Although I have a "matched" set of covers now, NONE of them are in any way representative of the story. The original covers are far superior in that regard.

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READING DIFFICULT BOOKS

By strange coincidence, both Anonosaurus Wrecks and I came across the following video last week. We must have the same YouTube algorithm. I watched it shortly before I posted the Sunday Morning Book Thread and saved it for this week. Then I saw the following comment later:

A blast from the past! Specifically, from the book thread.
I just came across this 8 1/2 minute video. The 5 Most Difficult Books Ever!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wUh7iZ5NrHw
Of the five, I've read three. Well, OK, I didn't make it all the way through Ulysses.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at December 03, 2023 12:49 PM (FVME7)

I have never read any of those books, though I've heard of them. I have no burning desire to start. I don't mind reading challenging books, but none of those interest me in any way. I don't like "stream of consciousness" writing. I don't think like most people, nor do they think like me, so I struggle with trying to understand a jumble of seemingly-random thoughts. I'm OK with complex characters and plots. In fact, I enjoy those stories quite a bit. I don't like authors making the book harder to read than it needs to be. Maybe the prose is fantastic. I don't know. I'm just not keen on trying any of these books. Some time ago I picked up Mark Z. Danielewksi's House of Leaves. It's way up there on the difficulty scale, as the book has all sorts of weird formatting. I simply don't understand it, though people do rave about it.

BOOKS BY IMBECILES

You may have noticed that the title of this section has changed. This is because after last week's conversation in the comments, I received the following email. "Diana Pool" (not her real name) gave me permission to print it in full:

"Hello". I'm a very long time lurker, disturbing the shrubbery occasionally to post some pics of my garden/orchard (paw paws, goji berries, etc.) and my past dogs - I have had several Irish Wolfhound companions over the years. I think I understand the old AOS pudding allusions (Pink Floyd?) but am not too sure of the cowbell allusions.
I am in your first category of writers. I have written a book, am working on a second one, and would like to see people read it. No. Make them read it to atone for their crimes against humanity. Will I ever make more than $4.75 in a given year? Hope is eternal, but in reality this may not realistically happen before the arrival of SMOD. That is ok though, as I have a job that pays the bills and don't really need the money (lucky me). I have probably spent more on the cover and the make it go through Smashwords editing than I will ever make on the book. But I did spend literally, if you get my drift, years writing the book. It was worth every minute as the research took me down paths I otherwise never would have traveled. I have my own business and have tried successfully over the years to find effective paths to successfully market my somewhat niche business. When looking at the whole book thing, I wrote to and received advise from Sarah Hoyt about traditional publishing. She kindly responded and offered one word, "don't". So how to get a readership base? I have been to the workshops - start a blog, do book signings, commit a highly creative and very public murder where a human interest note in the newspaper articles will be something like "The murderer committed the crime exactly as they described in the book but they weren't named Consuela." None of these avenues particularly appeal to me due to time constraints. So what is an author to do?
I have a few ideas to bypass some of the lines to get into the trendy bars called "Famous Authors Hangout" and "Prison Yard Authors", one of which is to perhaps have exposure from an Ace of Spades Book Thread posting. Another was to try and get Elvira to pose with my book between her delicious, um, shapely hands for a graphics design (I actually did meet her and ask and she said "I'll get back to you ", Any day now, any day now). She wasn't buying, so I will probably do that with another paragon of social interest.
So, to the present, I have a book under the nom de imbécile Diana Pool. I chose that nom because it is nom nom and also because I love Greek mythology and the tale of Rex Nemorensis. And because I used to swim in Diana's Pool when going to University.
So to the book. It is available from the usual outlets [Link goes to Amazon - PS]. It has 50% more wolfhounds and is in a sleek package that you can leave on your coffee table and people will say "WTF? I need that book or I will surely perish". It will make you younger, stronger, more attractive, and fabulously wealthy in a literary sense. And a far better overall imbécile.
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Blurb:
Holle
Holle is the exiled princess of the ruling family of the ancient seafaring kingdom of Solinacea who is gradually learning to love the seaport of Selinon to which she was exiled and appointed as the Sovereign in the unfolding years of the Renaissance. Having seen her success in turning the port into a flourishing and rapidly growing hub of trade, she begins to realize that she has made it a prize worth seizing. And she is suddenly aware that the recently colonized town in the wild and treacherous country on the far side of the cliffs ringing in the seaport are also beginning to flourish under the hand of an unknown leader of the men who live there.
Faolán
Who is this mysterious leader Faolán, where did he come from, and most importantly, what are his connections to the outside world and his potential threat to her Selinon? His past is a mysterious mixture of combat experience, education in the natural arts, and courtly graces, hinting at some sort of elevated social status. Most disturbingly, he assumes a familiarity with her to which she is unaccustomed and from which her best friend, Elizabeth, the Apothecary, is deriving far too much amusement. Elizabeth likes and greatly respects Faolán, is intrigued by his cloak of mystery, and can see what Holle can't, that she hasn't a prayer of escaping his attractions. She just hopes it will end well for Holle and is reasonably sure her hopes are well founded. Reasonably sure.
Wolfhounds
Wolfhounds destroy all enemies by rending and breaking them as they do with everything when they are not being sweet and gentle and looking charming and fetching while doing just about anything.
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So is this a proper request to be posted on the book thread? Let me know.
Diana

I sent a follow-up email to her, thanking her for reaching out to me. I also asked if I should change the name of this section. She's the one that came up with the term "Books By Imbeciles." She seems like someone who does not take herself too seriously and I'd love to meet her at a MOME sometime.

One of the challenges in attempting to verify if anyone is a "True Moron" is that we are by nature a secretive bunch who value personal privacy. Many of us (not me) use VPNs to avoid being tracked. Most of us (including me) use a "nic" that is NOT our real name on this blog and in other online social interactions. I've had communications with regular commenters via email without ever knowing their real names. I've met numerous folks at MOMEs and have no idea what their real names are. Members of the Horde come and go on the blog. I received an email from another person who used to comment frequently around here but has since gone back to lurking. Just the other day we saw "Vic" back in the comments section. He has been out of sorts for a few months due to medical and technological issues. There were a few folks skeptical it might be him, but he eventually seemed to confirm that he was indeed Vic. Or has he been replaced by a glowie? How would we know? This was actually a significant plot point in Tad Williams' Otherland series. A group of people are trapped in a virtual world, only interacting with each other through their online avatars. Unbeknownst to them, one of the trusted members of their party has been replaced by a deranged lunatic psychopath who killed the original inhabitant of the avatar and has infiltrated the group. Makes for a terrifying scenario when someone you trust online turns out to be very different in real life.

MORON RECOMMENDATIONS

Good morning horde. My recent reading material has revolved around The Enigma War by Josef Garlinski. For some reason, I decided I didn't really know enough about the Enigma story so off we went.
Glad I did. Now I have a much better appreciation for the pre-war history of Enigma and the world of the Polish team that originally broke the code. I better understand how the Bletchley Park effort came to be and the thought behind the designs.
One goal was to better understand the plumbing of the machine - how it really worked. I wanted to get beyond the generic "codes" and "combinations." The book got a long way there, but a few youtube tutorials made the difference. At some point, animation can illustrate concepts better than words.
The math geeks will appreciate the sheer magnitude of combinations but an understanding of how the machine worked was necessary to make informed decisions to include/exclude options for decoding.
Enigma machines periodically are available for sale through private sale or auction. No bargains anymore though. While many were made, few survive in good condition that aren't held in museum collections.
Posted by: TRex at December 03, 2023 09:30 AM (IQ6Gq)

Comment: Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon was my first exposure to the story behind the cracking of the Enigma code and the Bletchley Park crew that deciphered messages. Stephenson includes a lot of interesting technical details behind cryptography and even includes a cipher that can be used with a deck of playing cards, along with a Perl script for running the algorithm on a computer. Cryptography is way above my head, but it's pretty wild stuff when you start looking into it.

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I'm more open to looking at things from a spiritual perspective. I highly recommend Lorenzo Scupoli's The Spiritual Combat, which has helped me immensely.
His four weapons to win the spiritual combat are: absolute distrust of the self, absolute trust in God, proper orientation of our faculties and prayer.
That third one is really interesting because he's referring to surrounding yourself with things that elevate and inspire. If we look around, we see the opposite - instead of beauty, we get ugly, hateful things. It is remarkable how much you can change your view on things by cutting out the bad (books, TV, internet) and replacing it with good.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 03, 2023 09:42 AM (llXky)

Comment: Anyone who looks at what is happening in the world today and doesn't see a spiritual warfare component may not be paying close enough attention. Of course, as a Christian I would believe that. Your own beliefs may vary. I do know that as my men's group neared the end of our study and fellowship program, it seemed like a lot of things were happening to men in the group all at once. It's easy to chalk it up to pure coincidence, but we're convinced that the Enemy does *not* like Christians banding together in fellowship and in Christ to strengthen our relationship with God. He'll do anything he can to break us apart, up to and including causing my cat to puke all over my shoes before church. Prayers for anyone who is going through a difficult time right now. Have faith and God will see you through these dark times!

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I've been reading Directive 51, by John Barnes, recommended here by someone. It's an apocalyptic novel, and it's gripping.
Loosely organized groups of radicals (of various political bent) want to take down the Big System. It's good in theory, but when they are faced with the actual results, some are stricken with great remorse.
Multiple stories interweave: the people who do the deeds to bring the technological world down, the government agencies who are trying to keep order while preserving the constitution, ordinary citizens coping and stepping up to rebuild a nation and world.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at December 03, 2023 09:47 AM (OX9vb)

Comment: I may have been the one that recommended this novel, though Zoltan has also recommended it based on my own recommendation. It's a terrifyingly plausible scenario. Though it does seem as though the technology level in Directive 51 is slightly higher than ours, as they mention convoys of self-driving trucks that are taken offline due to the bio-cyber attacks against the infrastructure that supports them. It gets a little weirder when the humans find out what is happening. The end result is even more horrifying, though at least there is a continued future for a remnant of humanity.

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You're welcome. I learned about this only recently, reading Six Days of War, by Michael Oren. The first-third of the book is a recounting of Arab and Israeli internal political and foreign policy moves leading to the '67 war, from the 30s on. I recommend this book.
Posted by: Gref at December 03, 2023 09:43 PM (5fDan)

Comment: War is hell. 'Nuff said.

More Moron-recommended reading material can be found HERE! (1000+ Moron-recommended books!)

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WHAT I'VE BEEN READING THIS PAST WEEK:

After reviewing some of OregonMuse's old Book Threads, I thought I'd try something a bit different. Instead of just listing WHAT I'm reading, I'll include commentary as well. Unless otherwise specified, you can interpret this as an implied recommendation, though as always your mileage may vary.

Riverworld Book 3 - The Dark Design by Philip José Farmer

Whereas the first two novels in this series had subplots involving racism and antisemitism, this one has a subplot revolving around misogyny and feminism. One of the main characters is a highly qualified airship pilot from the late twentieth century. She died in 1983, so she is familiar with a fairly high degree of technology compared to other folks in the Riverworld who died long before then. She's even a "trifecta" character in that she's black (descended from Australian Aborigines, but mixed in with white ancestors as well), a woman, and bisexual. She does have a chip on her shoulder about the first two, though nobody seems to care much about her sexual preferences in the Riverworld unless she rejects their advances. She spends a fair amount of time trying to prove her worth to the airship captain of the story, who likes and respects her, but is also wary of her. She suffers from PTSD as well, since she has had some rough experiences after her resurrection. This tends to manifest as violent, unprovoked attacks from time to time. So she's unpredictable and must come to grips with that behavior before she can be trusted to be a first mate on the airship under construction. Other members of the crew grew up in an earlier era (e.g., WWI) and are therefore highly mistrustful of her abilities until she demonstrates that she knows more about airships than anyone alive.

It's a bit disappointing because it seems to be something of a rehash of The Fabulous Riverboat, where Sam "Mark Twain" Clemens builds his riverboat and embarks on his journey to find the source of the River. Now a group is trying to create an airship and accomplish the same task in much less time, as airships can travel much farther much faster than a riverboat, which must follow the course of a ten-million-mile long river. An airship can easily take shortcuts from Point A to Point B across the intervening terrain. The heroes do start to uncover more about the mysteries of who resurrected them and why.

(HT: StewBurner)

Christmas: The Rest of the Story by Rick Renner

This is a slow read for me. Mainly because I want to digest and savor each chapter. It's less than 300 pages long, but I figure it will take me a few weeks to get all the way through it. Lots of interesting history. Lots of spiritual stuff in here as well.

That's about all I have for this week. Thank you for all of your kind words regarding the Sunday Morning Book Thread. This is a very special place. You are very special people (in all the best ways!). The kindness, generosity, and wisdom of the Moron Horde knows no bounds. Let's keep reading!

If you have any suggestions for improvement, reading recommendations, or discussion topics that you'd like to see on the Sunday Morning Book Thread, you can send them to perfessor dot squirrel at-sign gmail dot com. Your feedback is always appreciated! You can also take a virtual tour of OUR library at libib.com/u/perfessorsquirrel. Since I added sections for AoSHQ, I now consider it OUR library, rather than my own personal fiefdom...

PREVIOUS SUNDAY MORNING BOOK THREAD - 12-03-23 (NOTE: Do NOT comment on old threads!)

Disclaimer: No Morons were harmed in the making of this Sunday Morning Book Thread. Reading the Sunday Morning Book Thread may be hazardous to your mental, physical, or spiritual health.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 09:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Started reading someone else's book to compare with mine. Now, the work begins.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 08:59 AM (Angsy)

2 First!

Posted by: Reforger at December 10, 2023 08:59 AM (tZHZg)

3 First!
Posted by: Reforger at December 10, 2023 08:59 AM (tZHZg)

Heh, heh. Doesn't pay to pre-boast about a first in the EMT thread....

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 09:00 AM (Angsy)

4 Tolle Lege
Reading I, Tom Horn by Will Henry, it's really good but having hard time finding time to read

Posted by: Skip at December 10, 2023 09:02 AM (fwDg9)

5 Good morning morons and thanks perfesser

Good job addressing the Who is a Moron? question.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at December 10, 2023 09:02 AM (RIvkX)

6 Hardest book read: Sound and the Fury

Posted by: San Franpsycho at December 10, 2023 09:03 AM (RIvkX)

7 Darn it. Annyway.

I'm irritated. Wife got me two books from a Moron author for Christmas and wouldn't let me read them before she wraped them up.

Ima gonna trade her in on 2, 25 year olds.

Posted by: Reforger at December 10, 2023 09:03 AM (tZHZg)

8 2 First!
Posted by: Reforger at December 10, 2023 08:59 AM (tZHZg)

3 First!
Posted by: Reforger at December 10, 2023 08:59 AM (tZHZg)

Heh, heh. Doesn't pay to pre-boast about a first in the EMT thread....
Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 09:00 AM (Angsy)
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Schadenfreudenboner!

Posted by: San Franpsycho at December 10, 2023 09:06 AM (RIvkX)

9 Yay Book Thread!

Speaking of spiritual warfare, yesterday was the Feast of St. Lucy of Narnia.

Seriously, look it up. Pretty sure C.S. Lewis was having fun with us.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 09:06 AM (llXky)

10 Ima gonna trade her in on 2, 25 year olds.

Posted by: Reforger at December 10, 2023 09:03 AM (tZHZg)
---
First wife gets half, the other two split what's left.

Sounds like a plan. A bad plan, but it's a plan nevertheless.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 09:07 AM (llXky)

11 cool picture

Posted by: rhennigantx at December 10, 2023 09:08 AM (lwOKI)

12 It is a dark and stormy ~~night~~ day outside.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 10, 2023 09:08 AM (CsUN+)

13 I wont be able to read for another couple of weeks, way too much stuff to do, I still manage to find time to read the book thread every week though. I keep making lists of the books that I want to read in the new year based on Horde reviews and recommendations.

Posted by: Debby Doberman Schultz at December 10, 2023 09:08 AM (Sgq8y)

14 Nice photo up top. Thanks, Perfessor.

Posted by: dantesed at December 10, 2023 09:09 AM (88xKn)

15 Good morning fellow Book Threadists. I hope everyone had a great week of reading.

Posted by: JTB at December 10, 2023 09:10 AM (7EjX1)

16 I am currently reading "Farewell-The Greatest Spy Story of the 20th Century" a book on cold war industrial espionage.

The book is well done, even if the title is hyperbolic.

Posted by: sven at December 10, 2023 09:11 AM (X0I7i)

17 I'm still working my way through "The Fall of the Roman Empire" by Peter Heather. It's still a very readable book; I just don't have the time to sit down and plough through non-stop. Most of my historical reading has concerned the 19th and 20th centuries, and of course the source material is usually voluminous. Compare that to writing about the ancient world where Heather says things along the lines of "yeah, this group of people is mentioned twice in so-and-so's writings, and then they disappeared forever." Strange to think how many cultures and societies have been lost to time.

Posted by: PabloD at December 10, 2023 09:11 AM (fbKxT)

18 Diana Pool is right. I'm sort of in the same boat as her. I don't need to write or pub, but it gives me something to do in my dotage. Will I ever be able to sell? Who knows. There are helpful people here. I too, have had conversations with Sarah Hoyt about writing, and Sabrina Chase as well. She read an attempt at a sci-fi novel for me and gave me some good information. It's not as good as I hoped, but not as poor as I feared.

I think people like Diana should keep sending stuff in. Are they just looking to sell books using the site as a hook, but really never appear? Maybe, but if it's something we'd read, why not? Just don't lie about it.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 09:12 AM (Angsy)

19 Good Sunday morning, horde!

Hi, DebbieDS! I have so many lists...Mr. Dmlw! just laughs at my many stacks of paper bits, scrawled with book titles, bundled together with rubber bands or binder clips.

They've become enjoyable reading all by themselves.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at December 10, 2023 09:13 AM (OX9vb)

20 Strange to think how many cultures and societies have been lost to time.

Posted by: PabloD at December 10, 2023 09:11 AM (fbKxT)

Beaker people.

Posted by: BignJames at December 10, 2023 09:15 AM (AwYPR)

21 Currently reading a kindle version of 'Twelve Caesars' by Suetonius.

Posted by: dantesed at December 10, 2023 09:15 AM (88xKn)

22 Whoo. The blood do fly in the climax of "Ace in the Hole," the sixth book in the Wild Cards shared-world series, this one set at the 1988 Democratic National Convention in Atlanta. Who wrote this, anyway? Five people, whose stories were stitched into one coherent whole by ... George R.R. Martin. That explains a lot.

P.S. Dad's still in ICU but seems to be edging upward. This is quite a seesaw.

Posted by: Weak Geek, who still doesn't know who got killed at the Red Wedding at December 10, 2023 09:16 AM (rYZAP)

23 Strange to think how many cultures and societies have been lost to time.

Posted by: PabloD at December 10, 2023 09:11 AM (fbKxT)

Beaker people.

I believe there is still one example of that culture surviving.
https://tinyurl.com/bdcrdjzn

Posted by: Archimedes at December 10, 2023 09:16 AM (CsUN+)

24 17 Posted by: PabloD at December 10, 2023 09:11 AM (fbKxT)

https://tinyurl.com/audible-version

Posted by: sven at December 10, 2023 09:16 AM (X0I7i)

25 Sounds like a plan. A bad plan, but it's a plan nevertheless.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 09:07 AM (llXky)

Well they are your books so maybe not such a bad plan.

She bought Walls of Men and Long Live Death.
I will do honest and unbiased reviews from "verified purchaser" when I finish each.

Then I'd like to get them signed if possible...

Posted by: Reforger at December 10, 2023 09:17 AM (tZHZg)

26 the 1988 DNC was such a brain trust they thought Michael Dukakis made sense...

only George RRR MARRRtin could try to make that series of events seem coherent.

Posted by: sven at December 10, 2023 09:18 AM (X0I7i)

27
Reading A Senate Journal, 1943-1945 by Allen Drury, who covered the Senate for the UPI after his discharge from the Army.

Drury is occasionally scathing about the Senate as an institution and the way it ran itself, but what's striking is that we get his contemporary impressions of senators instead of the filtered distortions of today's academics.

For example, even as admirable an author as Robert Caro in his LBJ volume on his Senate years never treats Republicans as anything except Neanderthal subhumans. But with Drury's pen, people like Robert Taft and Ken Wherry come across as responsible and principled people. The other side of the battles of the time are amply discussed. In short, a very balanced view of an institution in wartime.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 10, 2023 09:19 AM (9mNHV)

28 "This is a slow read for me. Mainly because I want to digest and savor each chapter. "

Perfessor's comment from the post above says it all. This approach is one I follow more and more and I enjoy it.

Posted by: JTB at December 10, 2023 09:19 AM (7EjX1)

29 I had the pleasure of coming across two of my favorite LOTR characters in one reading session: Farmer Maggot and Tom Bombadil. Neither are critical to the plot, as opposed to the overall story, but are important to Tolkien's creation.

Tom is a source of endless speculation for the readers, an enigma that Tolkien doesn't resolve in the books. But he is another wonder in a world full of unexplained wonders. I think he is important, at least to Tolkien, as an example of power with responsibility. Gandalf, Aragorn, and the high Elves reflect some of that but not to the same extent. Sauron and Saruman and other evil creatures use their power for control and conquest. Tom is the opposite.

It's my opinion that Maggot and Sam are the ultimate Hobbits. Bilbo and Frodo are exceptions, not the standard. But I think Maggot and Sam embody the qualities that Tolkien believes are most admirable: steadfast and connected to the earth. I wish he had included Maggot in the scouring of the Shire.

Posted by: JTB at December 10, 2023 09:20 AM (7EjX1)

30 I ordered a used book (Joan Miro) through Amazon, and it arrived last week from a store in Texas called Thriftbooks.

I also received a second book (JRR Tolkien Artist and Illustrator) through Thriftbooks...one I did not order, and one I was not charged for.

So...Merry Christmas?

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at December 10, 2023 09:21 AM (CHHv1)

31 This week"s recommendation is Thunder at Twilight by Frederic Morton. The city of Vienna in 1913 was the epicenter and symbol of the peak of Europe and the catalyst of the conflagration that would change it forever. Imagine a starving artist named Hitler, living down the street from a pair of new friends named Leon Trotsky and Joseph Djugashvili. Trotsky had just launched a newspaper called Pravda. A young Josip Bros lived here as well, not yet nicknamed Tito, along with an aging Sigmund Freud, who was writing an essay about the mob killing a prince. This was Vienna in 1913 - a Hapsburg city where the seeds of destruction were germnating. Thunder at Twilight covers the two final years of peace in the city which held many of the players that would shape the rest of the century. While reading this book, one almost wants to shout a warning to the world, knowing what is coming. Morton used the private notes of Hapsburg family members along with news articles of the day to paint a fascinating picture of the old order in decay, just before it was lost forever. It is quite interesting to see so many young players in one place, like a finishing school for dictators.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 10, 2023 09:21 AM (W5brt)

32 Rereading The Master and Margarita after a decade or so, and not enjoying it nearly as much. Don't know why, exactly.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 10, 2023 09:22 AM (Dm8we)

33 I just came across this 8 1/2 minute video. The 5 Most Difficult Books Ever! -- I DID NOT Know DC and Marvel held the contest. I gave up reading for spouting crap off the top of my head in the 60's. Things haven't changed at all since then.

Posted by: Ray Mota at December 10, 2023 09:22 AM (sw3xv)

34 Started reading "Frozen Orbit" which was written by an alleged Moron. So far so good but now is bogging down in dumb orbital mechanics stuff. I may have to skip ahead a bit. Like the book so far.

Posted by: pawn at December 10, 2023 09:23 AM (QB+5g)

35 hiya

Posted by: JT at December 10, 2023 09:23 AM (T4tVD)

36 Since the topic is covers... a few weeks back, I asked for feedback on some initial cover designs and received some harsh but constructive criticism. And I welcome feedback on the re-designs. Thanks.

https://is.gd/tRv4rW

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at December 10, 2023 09:24 AM (9yUzE)

37 Oh. OrangeEnt.
I had forgotten about what the city did with Graves Lane.
It happened while I was living in Draino a few 30 miles North of here.
By here I mean 2 blocks South of College Parkway, just off Nye.
I actually know a couple of the Graves decendants the road was named after.

Posted by: Reforger at December 10, 2023 09:24 AM (tZHZg)

38 Hardest? easy
Silmarillion

Only book I know that took me 2 shots to get through it

Posted by: Skip at December 10, 2023 09:24 AM (fwDg9)

39 Birdbath status?

Posted by: Just Wondering at December 10, 2023 09:26 AM (NBVIP)

40 Just from Diana Pool's letter I can tell that she is a very good and clever writer. I can also relate to Ms. Pool's idea of writing success. Under a different "non de imbecile" I have written and recorded several songs. I have made tens of dollars in streaming royalties, but having been paid at all for songwriting is a life-goal met, and when a song of mine was played on local over-the-air radio, and when a video of mine went locally viral, it was fulfilling beyond words. Keep it up, Ms. Pool!

Posted by: Buck Throckmorton at December 10, 2023 09:27 AM (d9Cw3)

41 She bought Walls of Men and Long Live Death.
I will do honest and unbiased reviews from "verified purchaser" when I finish each.

Then I'd like to get them signed if possible...

Posted by: Reforger at December 10, 2023 09:17 AM (tZHZg)
---
Obviously she is a woman of refinement and exceptional taste. Truly a keeper!

Not sure about the logistics of signing, but I usually inscribe books I give away.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 09:28 AM (llXky)

42 I think someone on last week's thread mentioned Atomic Habits, and a couple of sewing channels on YouTube had mentioned it last week, so I got it for Kindle even though it costs more than I usually spend.

So far, so good. I think I'll have to listen to it at least one more time though, and possibly even take notes.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 10, 2023 09:28 AM (nC+QA)

43 those are fascinating coincidences tom paine

french industry and politics are littered with soviet agents,
see the sapphire ring, that they consigned vosjoili to the netherlands for unveiling it, the subject of Uris' Topaz,

Farewell is the subtext of Christopher Walkens crazy performance in view to a kill

Posted by: no 6 at December 10, 2023 09:29 AM (PXvVL)

44 What a shame that the new Feist covers commit the cardinal sin. They are *boring*. The previous cover was both accurate and attention grabbing.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 10, 2023 09:30 AM (nC+QA)

45 I had forgotten about what the city did with Graves Lane.
It happened while I was living in Draino a few 30 miles North of here.
By here I mean 2 blocks South of College Parkway, just off Nye.
I actually know a couple of the Graves decendants the road was named after.
Posted by: Reforger at December 10, 2023 09:24 AM (tZHZg)

It was weird. I lived at those apartments right near the highway, behind the 7-11, was it? For some reason I decided to look up the address, and noticed the whole street was gone! Haven't been there for a long time. It was 500 Graves Lane. Now, part of my life has been obliterated.

sorry about stealing your "first."

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 09:30 AM (Angsy)

46 A book thread idea
Books better than movie
Movie better than book

Thought of this as Tom Horn movie with Steve McQueen but haven't seen it in a long time

Posted by: Skip at December 10, 2023 09:30 AM (fwDg9)

47 I started reading a collection of essays by John Muir. Like many people I knew of the man in a general way: explorer and naturalist, but hadn't read his works. I was astonished by the quality of his writing. This is poetry. These aren't dry, even though accurate, travelogues. Whether calculated or natural to the man, his writing is fulsome, almost uninhibited, but not exaggerated. His descriptions go beyond the visual, they invoke all the senses. And his style evokes emotion and mood in the reader. Although prose, his writing has the power of poetry to go beyond the words on the page, engaging the reader's imagination and appreciation. Read his essay about the Yosemite area as an example. It is a delight.

Posted by: JTB at December 10, 2023 09:31 AM (7EjX1)

48 @34 --

I'm considering reading "Frozen Orbit" because of its mention in this column. The back cover blurb sounds interesting. I look forward to your further comments.

Posted by: Weak Geek at December 10, 2023 09:31 AM (rYZAP)

49 It is quite interesting to see so many young players in one place, like a finishing school for dictators.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 10, 2023 09:21 AM (W5brt)
---
The ranks of the International Brigades in Spain were a similar nexus of future Communist dictators and their cronies. Tito was there, as was the Albanian guy (Hoxha?).

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 09:31 AM (llXky)

50 You say you want a lying cover? Well, I gotcher lyin' cover right here. There's a novel by Janet Caird called The Loch. Cave dwellers, eyes getting gouged out, etc. For reasons known but to God, the book was selected as either the first or second entry in a Signet (I think) pb line called Adventures in Romance. Late 70s or very early 80s. Thing looked like an early Harlequin romance paperback. Did the book have a love story in it? Can't remember. But it did appear in Stephen King's Danse Macabre in his list of good horror novels from 1950-1980. The Adventures in Romance line didn't last long.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023 09:32 AM (a/4+U)

51 This week"s recommendation is Thunder at Twilight by Frederic Morton. The city of Vienna in 1913 was the epicenter and symbol of the peak of Europe and the catalyst of the conflagration that would change it forever.

I read Martyn Rady's The Habsburgs: To Rule the World a few weeks ago. It's a history of the Habsburgs from start to finish, but as you might imagine, much of it is dedicated to the history of Austria-Hungary. It provides an excellent foundation for what you describe.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 10, 2023 09:32 AM (CsUN+)

52 Birdbath status?
Posted by: Just Wondering at December 10, 2023 09:26 AM (NBVIP)

Unfrozen !

Posted by: JT at December 10, 2023 09:33 AM (T4tVD)

53 Hardest? easy
Silmarillion

Only book I know that took me 2 shots to get through it

Posted by: Skip at December 10, 2023 09:24 AM (fwDg9)
---
I think the issue isn't difficulty of reading, it's misplaced expectations. I approached it thinking it would read like LotR or The Hobbit, and it eventually came somewhat close, but for the most part it uses very archaic and majestic language.

And the scope is unexpected as well. Once you figure it out, it's an easy, enjoyable read, albeit kind of sad.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 09:35 AM (llXky)

54 In the past two days, I devoured "Wool" by Hugh Howey, my choice this month for Family Book Club. It's a very thick book, a real door stopper, so I was afraid it was going to take me all month to read it.

I started apologizing to my kids for it, but they told me they'd already finished it, so, encouraged, I dug in. Geez. I couldn't put it down. I finished it in under two days.

Good recommendation by someone(s) here. It's about a whole society living in an enclosed, underground structure. It's the only life they know, and the structure (over 100 levels) contains everything a society needs to thrive. But there are secrets, and once every so many decades, someone starts asking questions, and it all goes to hell.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at December 10, 2023 09:35 AM (OX9vb)

55 I read Martyn Rady's The Habsburgs: To Rule the World a few weeks ago.
Posted by: Archimedes at December 10, 2023 09:32 AM (CsUN+)
-

No they didn't!

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 10, 2023 09:35 AM (PTdof)

56 The book I finished most recently was _Strange Wine_, an anthology of stories by Harlan Ellison, published some time in the 1970s. It's upstairs and I don't want to go look at the copyright page, nor do I want to Google it. The fact that he's bitching about Nixon instead of Reagan indicates the 70s.

He bitches a lot about television, too. Which is odd coming from a man whose primary career for much of his life was writing television episodes. I'm not saying his complains are necessarily wrong, either -- although it is almost quaint to see him gripe about spending TWO HOURS every evening watching TV. His complaint is that it isolated people. Well, we've solved that. Now we're all obsessively communicating all the time instead.

The stories? They're good. Most of them. A few haven't aged well (again, Nixon). I will say that the overall effect is like watching a Twilight Zone marathon: you become very aware of the writer's personal obsessions, and there's a certain glibness that gets a little wearisome in large doses.

Still, recommended.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023 09:36 AM (78a2H)

57 sorry about stealing your "first."
Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 09:30 AM (Angsy)

Karma. All good. I earned. Usually not up this early and have to play catch up.

I lived there also.
I think they let Walmart design that road. With the "bypass" and all. It's a mess and they keep adding "low income" housing, also known as $1600 a month 2 Bdr apartments, to every field they can. Traffic sucks in that area.

Posted by: Reforger at December 10, 2023 09:37 AM (tZHZg)

58 After the Persian Excursion, while still in country I had plenty of slack time so I tried to read Anna Karenina. I couldn't get through the first 100 pages. What a bunch of dreck.

Someone yesterday mentioned God's Samurai, so I bought a paperback copy.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at December 10, 2023 09:39 AM (YRsIm)

59 This week I read Vienna Prelude by Bodie Thoene. This is the first book in the Zion Covenant series. Bodie and Brock Thoene are a husband and wife writing team. Bodie does the writing and Brock, a historian, does the research.

The story begins in 1935 and centers on Elise Lindheim, a violinist with the Vienna Symphony. Her mother is Austrian and her father is a German Jew. Elise is blond like her mother and has false Czechoslovakian papers identifying her as Elisa Linder. She becomes involved with rescuing Jewish children from Germany, and to that end she marries John Murphy, an American journalist, to obtain a U. S. passport to make it easier for her to travel to Germany. They make a harrowing escape from Vienna to Prague just ahead of the Nazi tanks annexing Austria.

I like the way Bodie tells a story and one learns a little history of Vienna and Prague and of the area in the mid 1930's.

Posted by: Zoltan at December 10, 2023 09:40 AM (7EvEN)

60 The stories? They're good. Most of them. A few haven't aged well (again, Nixon). I will say that the overall effect is like watching a Twilight Zone marathon: you become very aware of the writer's personal obsessions, and there's a certain glibness that gets a little wearisome in large doses.

Still, recommended.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023 09:36 AM (78a2H)
---
Nothing ages faster than "modern" thought. Barbara Tuchman's A Distant Mirror is like this. It starts well, but then bogs down into her offering social commentary on how women in the workforce is fine and there's no problem with it, silly Medieval idiot men were silly, etc., and yet her very very modern mindset has already crashed and burned.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 09:40 AM (llXky)

61 30 ... "I also received a second book (JRR Tolkien Artist and Illustrator)"

I have that one. It adds a large new dimension to Tolkien as an artist, a family man (the illustrations he did for his children are wonderful), and a creative spirit. Hope you enjoy it.

Posted by: JTB at December 10, 2023 09:40 AM (7EjX1)

62 The most difficult book I've read is Basic Economics. Took me three tries (library check outs), with the last being an audio book version. That worked better for me for whatever reason. John (late, first) Husband read it as well and he said it was much more in depth than he would have expected from something called "basic". That made me feel better since he was a CPA.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 10, 2023 09:42 AM (nC+QA)

63 I lived there also.
I think they let Walmart design that road. With the "bypass" and all. It's a mess and they keep adding "low income" housing, also known as $1600 a month 2 Bdr apartments, to every field they can. Traffic sucks in that area.
Posted by: Reforger at December 10, 2023 09:37 AM (tZHZg)

As long as The Chocolate Nugget Candy Factory is still there, I guess I'd live with it.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 09:42 AM (Angsy)

64 Last week, "Just Some Guy" talked about the word "gafiate" which is an example of the argot associated with science fiction fandom, a community I've been part of for many years. In contrast to "gafiate" you have "fafiate" which is "forced away from it all" due to work or children or other commitments. I've been mostly fafiated for many years. You also have "fanac" which is the "fan activity" that fans do or "filk" which is the kind of music they have at conventions and stuff like that.

It's a fascinating world, full of, um, characters. Because of that, number of books are set in that world, the main example of which (that I can think of off the top of my head) is Bimbos of the Death Sun. Oh, I can also remember The Longest Con.

Posted by: Cybersmythe at December 10, 2023 09:42 AM (iZEhM)

65 Of the book lists, I read The Sound and the Fury, Infinite Jest, and part of Finnegan's Wake (that someone left at a laundromat iirc). For the first,
I agree with the "signifying nothing" part of the MacBeth reference. The middle one showed the joke's on the reader. Joyce isn't fit to carry Padraic Colum's inkpot when it came to referring to Greek mythology. (Just thought I'd throw that in there.)

Currently I'm reading "Banner in the Sky" by James Ramsey Ullman, a Newbery Honor Medal winner from 1954. It's about mountain climbing, based on Whymper's conquest of the Matterhorn. I got it at a thrift store.

Posted by: NaughtyPine at December 10, 2023 09:43 AM (YJlID)

66 harlan wrote the city on the edge of forever, and of course an outerl limits episode that was the basis for terminator, he seemed to be a prickly character from the short segments he had in the pre Cormanized sci fi channel,

Posted by: no 6 at December 10, 2023 09:43 AM (PXvVL)

67 Books better than movie...Movie better than book

Shogun the book>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shogun the 'movie'

Alien the movie >>> Alien the book.

Whirlwind by Clavell...don't even try.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at December 10, 2023 09:44 AM (YRsIm)

68 Just a quick drive by post before I head out: My wife and I watched Amazon's "The Peripheral" and thought it a decent sci-fi series, but, unfortunately, it appears it may not be finished.

No bother, though, because it's based on William Gibson's "The Peripheral" and, well, just pick up the book, read it and find out where it's going.

Yeah, no, don't bother. Amazon somehow found a coherent story in a mess of a book. The series isn't even close to the book, and that's a good thing.

So: watch the series, don't read the book.

Posted by: Lavrenty Beria at December 10, 2023 09:45 AM (tT6L1)

69 harlan wrote the city on the edge of forever, and of course an outerl limits episode that was the basis for terminator, he seemed to be a prickly character from the short segments he had in the pre Cormanized sci fi channel,

Posted by: no 6 at December 10, 2023 09:43 AM (PXvVL)
---
The mainstreaming of sci-fi has pretty much eliminated Ellison and his ilk - eccentric, prickly writers who found a niche and ran with it.

Doctor Who fandom, for example, used to be extremely selective because it was so damn difficult to even watch the show. Now every poseur midwit proclaims themselves a fan and of course Disney wrapped its tentacles around it as well.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 09:47 AM (llXky)

70 @64 --

In my days as a single man, I attended a few comics/SF cons. I loved filking.

Posted by: Weak Geek at December 10, 2023 09:47 AM (rYZAP)

71 I finished Skyripper by David Drake. Set in the 80's it is a mix of espionage, computer mainframes, and Volare station wagons.

Tom Kelley is asked to come back from retirement from the NSA for one more job to facilitate the defection of a Soviet physicist, Emil Vlasov, during an International Nuclear Power conference is Algieria in spite of the way that Kelly was retired.
Operating through the American Embassy in Algiers he combats bureaucratic time serving and timidity, suspicious interference from the CIA Station Chief, hostility from the Ambassador, Russian and Vietnamese personnel who are far more competent than their superiors, and overenthusiastic Kabyle revolutionaries.

Vlasov, a hero of the Great Patriotic war, and a top level physicist in the Soviet weapons program developing particle beams, has come to the conclusion the Aliens are about to invade the Earth, and his development of the particle beam technology was the only weapon to prevent it, and only the USA had the technological sophistication to build it in time. This adds complications to the defection.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 10, 2023 09:48 AM (D7oie)

72 There's some pretty good stuff in Strange Wine. But the Ellison go-to collections for me would be Shatterday, Angry Candy, Love Ain't Nothing but Sex Misspelled, and Gentleman Junkie. Like most collections by most writers, they can be uneven but there's a lot of good stories there.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023 09:48 AM (a/4+U)

73 In before Tolkien jacks the thread.

Dammit!

Posted by: Dr. Bone at December 10, 2023 09:48 AM (klzFH)

74 The books vs movie thing is a recurring theme, and generally the book is better. However, there are three noteworthy exceptions:

M*A*S*H
Jaws
Last of the Mohicans

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 09:49 AM (llXky)

75 oh yes whirlwind went off the boards there,

so did Norman Mailer's Harlots Ghost, you could probably chop out a good 200 hundred pages,

Posted by: no 6 at December 10, 2023 09:49 AM (PXvVL)

76
Pharaoh tried.
Herod tried.
Hitler tried.
Good luck with that.

Posted by: As Dennis Prager sez at December 10, 2023 09:49 AM (NBVIP)

77 In before Tolkien jacks the thread.

Dammit!

Posted by: Dr. Bone at December 10, 2023 09:48 AM (klzFH)
---
As Muldoon says, always bet the under on Tolkien.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 09:49 AM (llXky)

78 Someone yesterday mentioned God's Samurai, so I bought a paperback copy.
Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at December 10, 2023 09:39 AM (YRsIm)

I think we had the comic book version of that when I was a kid. We had a couple of international Christian biographies in that format. The other one I remember is Hansi: the Girl Who Loved the Swastika. I found the full version in the library in Troy, Missouri.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 10, 2023 09:50 AM (nC+QA)

79 Perfessor — I usually lurk on the book thread. You do a great job! I’m temporarily de-cloaking as you mentioned Neal Stephenson. I read Cryptonomicon ~20 years ago (it’s been awhile)… very unique book so I dove into his Baroque Cycle trilogy. I got all the way through it, but it left a bad taste. It seems to me Stephenson is constantly trying to show me how brilliant he is… and he succeeds; he’s obviously a very smart, very well-read guy. But in the end it’s just too overwhelming and in-your-face. I read to relax and his books made me feel inadequate and like I was constantly taking a final exam and flunking. I’ll admit the Shaftoe characters are interesting…

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at December 10, 2023 09:51 AM (xT8gx)

80 Another movie better than the book: Of Unknown Origin, with Peter Weller. Based on The Visitor by Chauncey Parker III.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023 09:51 AM (a/4+U)

81 Anybody here read "Abundance" by Diamandis and Kotler?

Desperately seeking non-dystopia material for gifts this year.

Posted by: Auspex at December 10, 2023 09:51 AM (j4U/Z)

82 I like the book "M*A*S*H." The movie left me cold, even though it had a topless woman.

Posted by: Weak Geek at December 10, 2023 09:53 AM (rYZAP)

83 Barbara Tuchman's A Distant Mirror is one I couldn't finish.
Went off the rails about page 150 or so.

I have developed an unhealthy infatuation with trying to prove or disprove whether or not the Austin family here in America is a lost Pantegenant lineage decended from The Black Prince and Joan of Kent.

Posted by: Reforger at December 10, 2023 09:54 AM (GGupb)

84 "Ego sum vitis, vos palmites: qui manet in me, et ego in eo, hic fert fructum multum, quia sine me nihil potestis facere."

Ionannes 15:5

Posted by: Marcus T at December 10, 2023 09:54 AM (mSy8I)

85 I think I got as far as no 2 in the baroque cycle, he did that other one with time travel, that didn't do very well,

Posted by: no 6 at December 10, 2023 09:55 AM (PXvVL)

86 I'm reading "Dead Mountain" by Preston and Child and it's not one of their best but none of the Kelly and Swanson books are and it's good enough to hold my interest.

However, I don't care if you move mountains and invent terrible incidents involving government cover-ups. Those things have to happen in fiction. But, you cannot change the Interstate Highway numbering system to make I-40 a north-south roadway. What bothers me most about this insignificant error is that Douglas Preston has lived in Santa Fe for decades. I-25 goes north and south through Santa Fe and Albuquerque to Socorro, where one of the characters is going. (it actually goes from Alaska to Argentina) This is just the stupid kind of stuff that gets on my next to last nerve.

Posted by: huerfano at December 10, 2023 09:56 AM (Q4KYm)

87 I like the book "M*A*S*H." The movie left me cold, even though it had a topless woman.

Posted by: Weak Geek at December 10, 2023 09:53 AM (rYZAP)
---
My criticism of that book mirrors my dislike of Catch-22: both of them are cartoonish in their humor, reducing a thoughtful subject to slapstick.

I much prefer Evelyn Waugh's Sword of Honour trilogy, which is very funny, but walks that fine line between reality and credible absurdity. He's a superlative prose stylist and in addition to the humor, there is a meaningful moral lesson as well. I came across the books at a very low point in my life and found my faith strengthened by them.

Can't recommend it enough. It's so good, I limit my re-reading so I don't get too used to it.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 09:58 AM (llXky)

88 Moring, book folk!

harlan wrote the city on the edge of forever, and of course an outerl limits episode that was the basis for terminator, he seemed to be a prickly character from the short segments he had in the pre Cormanized sci fi channel,
Posted by: no 6 at December 10, 2023

***
I've always quibbled at that notion that HE's Outer Limits episodes, "Soldier" and "Demon With a Glass Hand," were a basis for The Terminator. In the first one, a soldier of a future century pops back into 1960s Earth -- but he is not sent back, let alone on a mission to change history. "Demon," except for one element, resembles the James Cameron script of the Arnold film even less. Yes, Cameron might have seen those episodes and been inspired. But I think his script does not owe any real debt in concept or plot to the Ellison stories.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 09:58 AM (omVj0)

89 Skip, a book thread on book vs movie would be fun. I ran a panel on that at an MWA convention years ago, and it's not as clearcut as you might think. The movie Three Days of the Condor was based on a book titled Six Days of the Condor, and they changed the title for a good reason! I think the movie Hunt for Red October is stronger than the book. Colin Dexter's Inspector Morse books are more fun once you have the characters from the TV series firmly fixed in your mind.

Posted by: Wenda at December 10, 2023 09:58 AM (tx5QZ)

90 I never read the failed comic Men in Black, but I understand that the movie (one of my favorites) is far superior.

Add that to your list.

Posted by: Weak Geek at December 10, 2023 09:58 AM (rYZAP)

91 The most difficult book I've read is Basic Economics. Took me three tries (library check outs), with the last being an audio book version. That worked better for me for whatever reason [. . . ]
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 10, 2023 09:42 AM (nC+QA)

If you are looking for a starter book on economics, you might find a copy of "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt

the banking and money creation end is more complicated, of course.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 10, 2023 09:58 AM (D7oie)

92 The books vs movie thing is a recurring theme, and generally the book is better. However, there are three noteworthy exceptions:

M*A*S*H
Jaws
Last of the Mohicans
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023

***
Two more: Die Hard and Whitley Strieber's Wolfen.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 09:59 AM (omVj0)

93 I stopped at book three of the Riverworld series when reading it as a teen. Not sure if I started three or not. Thought I hadn't, but the main character sounds vaguely familiar, so maybe I did. From the Perfessor's blurbs, I don't think I'll try again.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 10, 2023 10:00 AM (nC+QA)

94 am reading Simon Winchester's Krakatoa based on a recommendation in the recent past. It's better than OK, but I think I'm becoming a bit jaded about this kind of book. It's almost like a non-fiction version of Michener's [choose your own adventure]. There are a lot of stylistic similarities with other recountings of historical events, see John [M] Barry's Rising Tide and The Great Influenza. Sometimes the backstory overwhelms the actual story.

Also started Cedar Sanderson's Running Into Time, but not far enough to say much except that I liked her Pixie Noir books and see her showing up as characters in other books, which I can't remember right now.

Posted by: yara at December 10, 2023 10:00 AM (xr64u)

95 A book thread idea
Books better than movie
Movie better than book
---
Book and movie equally great: The Right Stuff

(As an 'ette I'd give the movie a slight edge because hot young fighter pilots.)

Posted by: screaming in digital at December 10, 2023 10:00 AM (aBJcM)

96 On the subject of difficult books, I like clever books, and if written well, they don't have to be difficult. In my opinion the master of this style is Iain Pears. An Instance of the Fingerpost is a haunting story told by four different people with vastly different perspectives, one of whom is insane. The Dream of Scorpio is a story set in one area where history repeats across centuries. And, of course, my favorite, Stone's Fall is a story inside a story inside a story, where one goes back into time to reveal the mystery. I am about to begin my annual rereading of it.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 10, 2023 10:00 AM (W5brt)

97 Yes, topical references — especially in science fiction set centuries or millennia in the future, or secondary-world fantasies -- are absolute story-killers for me. They utterly destroy any hope of immersion, so that I'm just reading the text waiting for the author to kick the back of my seat again.

And, seriously, what is it about Nixon? Lib writers from the 70s literally compare him to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Genghis Khan.

What was his body count again? I forget.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023 10:00 AM (78a2H)

98 If you are looking for a starter book on economics, you might find a copy of "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt

the banking and money creation end is more complicated, of course.
Posted by: Kindltot at December 10, 2023 09:58 AM (D7oie)

I purchased that one later, from a rec in a very early Book Thread. Haven't finished it because I rage quit during the discussion of raising taxes only for the duration of a war, since that hasn't happened in forever.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 10, 2023 10:03 AM (nC+QA)

99 And, seriously, what is it about Nixon? Lib writers from the 70s literally compare him to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Genghis Khan.

What was his body count again? I forget.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023 10:00 AM (78a2H)
---
Far from being reactionary, he was very liberal, and we are living with the nightmares he created: BATFE, EPA, fiat money, etc.

US policy before Nixon was full assimilation for Indian tribes, but he resurrected the treaty system, creating a hard ethnic barrier, which others have built upon.

Not a fan.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 10:04 AM (llXky)

100 There's some pretty good stuff in Strange Wine. But the Ellison go-to collections for me would be Shatterday, Angry Candy, Love Ain't Nothing but Sex Misspelled, and Gentleman Junkie. Like most collections by most writers, they can be uneven but there's a lot of good stories there.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023

***
I went to see Ellison speak when I lived in Denver. At his book signing afterward, I brought paperback copies of Love Ain't . . . and his memoir, Memos From Purgatory, as a member of a Brooklyn street gang. He gave me a sharp look -- he expected me to buy one of his hardcovers, I guess -- but he signed.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 10:04 AM (omVj0)

101 *pounds closed fist into open palm* Let Nixon be Nixon!

Posted by: Buck Rogers at December 10, 2023 10:04 AM (NBVIP)

102 Nixon was a dirtbag.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at December 10, 2023 10:05 AM (R4t5M)

103 Yes, also the plot in Condor, was made more timely from a drug smuggling plot to an invasion of the oil fields, that owes a debt to edward luttwak's modest suggestion,

the author, in a subsequent anthology bought the Russia hoax so hard, he bent time to make it fit,

diehard is borrowed liberally from roderick thorp, as the sequel from a walter wager tale, name escapes me now,

Posted by: no 6 at December 10, 2023 10:06 AM (PXvVL)

104 re: "Basic Economics". I tried reading Samuelson's book Economics a number of times and failed. He starts with macro-economics and I couldn't get past that. I ended up stealing my son's copy of Mankiw's Microeconomics which is much more intelligible, though I still haven't made it through his Macro book. Mankiw has a list of 10 things which almost all (he says) economists agree with. One of which is his version of TANSTAAFL.

Posted by: yara at December 10, 2023 10:06 AM (xr64u)

105 I've been reading furniture plans and cut lists. I am finding that designs that appear "simple" are usually much more complex then they seem when you start reading the plans. I may be in over my head...

Posted by: lin-duh at December 10, 2023 10:07 AM (QBwwm)

106 One does not simply read Dhalgren when walking into Mordor.

The wincing and retching can make it exceedingly difficult.

Posted by: Boromir at December 10, 2023 10:07 AM (KjwrL)

107 Booken morgen horden!

I have been enjoying an unexpected and beautiful reading-related experience.
KTE decided to make a prayer advent calendar for me. Starting on Dec 1, every day she's been giving me an envelope with painstakingly hand written traditional prayer. This is despite tge fact that she's not religious.
It's such a fantastic gift of love from her. I am so blessed.

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at December 10, 2023 10:07 AM (vHIgi)

108 If memory serves, lib writers from the 70s didn't think any more highly of any Republican president after Nixon either. Sometimes it seems like the idea is that if not for the heroes of the media or the Dems, those Republicans would gladly follow in the steps of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, insert-butcher-of-your-choice-here.

"The Gods of the Copybook Headings" comes to mind. Ditto "The Ant and the Grasshopper" -- the people they don't like seem to lean toward ant-hood, while they'd rather enjoy good times and not worry about the coming winter.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023 10:07 AM (a/4+U)

109 Movie so much better than book:
Princess Bride

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at December 10, 2023 10:09 AM (vHIgi)

110 Long ago and far away...

I read "Gravity's Rainbow. I didn't find it difficult at all, thought admittedly I was in tune with it's use of scientific metaphors and similes, including plot turns that echoed scientific theories.

I think that's where the "difficult" jibe comes from. All of these English lit types without any scientific reference point would be all confused more than likely. Whereas some simile lifted from say, Shakespeare would have them all nodding sagaciously at their own wisdom.

Plus, Pynchon had a great sense of humor and there are plenty of laughs along the way.

But, yes, it is long and may not be your cup of tea.
Give it a try or don't. I think the GR controversy is a dead one now.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 10, 2023 10:09 AM (QzZeQ)

111 If memory serves, lib writers from the 70s didn't think any more highly of any Republican president after Nixon either. Sometimes it seems like the idea is that if not for the heroes of the media or the Dems, those Republicans would gladly follow in the steps of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, insert-butcher-of-your-choice-here.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023 10:07 AM (a/4+U)
---
For much of what we call the left, politics has replaced religion. It started on the fringe, which is why Dems turned on Jimmy Carter and Mondale got trounced.

But now supporting The Party is a quasi-religious act, because every Republican is of the Devil. Thus, nothing a Dem does is enough to turn away from them because literal Satan is the only other option. They rationalize it of course, and their desperate need for RUSSIA to be true is proof of this.

That's the biggest difference between the 70s and now: back then the Weather Underground was fringe, now it's mainstream and moderates are fringe.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 10:11 AM (llXky)

112 Movie so much better than book:
Princess Bride
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at December 10, 2023 10:09 AM (vHIgi)

Must have been a dull book, then. I finally was able to watch the movie.

Eh, wasn't as funny as the call outs you see online. Guess I just don't know funny.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 10:11 AM (Angsy)

113 I've been reading furniture plans and cut lists. I am finding that designs that appear "simple" are usually much more complex then they seem when you start reading the plans. I may be in over my head...
Posted by: lin-duh

When I'm building furniture I make my own plan and cut list. I don't see things the same way as most people I assume.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 10, 2023 10:11 AM (W5brt)

114 Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at December 10, 2023 10:07 AM (vHIgi)

Wow! That really is an awesome gift.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 10, 2023 10:12 AM (nC+QA)

115 Closing the circle of the thread: Princess Bride also had one startlingly wrong cover. The original Ballantine paperback edition features a drawing of a sexy nekkid lady with what looks like a bird on her head.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023 10:12 AM (78a2H)

116 Funny -- I always preferred the novel to the film of The Princess Bride. But then, I loved Goldman's asides and I liked his book's ending more than the movie's.

But they both worked for me. Mrs Some Guy and the daughter love the movie and hate the book. Go figure.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023 10:12 AM (a/4+U)

117 Must have been a dull book, then. I finally was able to watch the movie.

Eh, wasn't as funny as the call outs you see online. Guess I just don't know funny.
Posted by: OrangeEnt

TERRIBLE book. Trust me.

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at December 10, 2023 10:12 AM (vHIgi)

118 diehard is borrowed liberally from roderick thorp, as the sequel from a walter wager tale, name escapes me now,
Posted by: no 6 at December 10, 2023

***
Die Hard is based almost completely on the Thorp novel Nothing Last Forever, a sequel to his ca. 1965 novel The Detective. Almost all the big set pieces in the film, such as John McClane using a firehose as a belaying rope when he leaps from the roof of the tower, are right there in the book. The only significant change is that in the film we get much more of Hans Gruber -- he's offstage in much of the novel.

I've read the Walter Wager novel that evolved into Die Hard II, and can't remember the title either. The concept is pretty much the same: terrorists holding airliners hostage, though I don't recall if their motivation and movie twist was in there too.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 10:12 AM (omVj0)

119 ah yes Gravity's Rainbow in dire need of an editor, maybe it was the stream of consciousness in it, too many characters
some of his subsequent work like Vineland was less accessible,

Posted by: no 6 at December 10, 2023 10:13 AM (PXvVL)

120 Well, after reading a whole bunch of short pulp-stories about Cossacks, I searched online to see if there were some more...visual...Cossack themed stories. And to my surprise, there was! A French comic book, translated and released in the last year or two, simply called "Cossacks."

I bought the first volume. A horseman for Poland-Lithuania gets disillusioned while fighting Russians, deserts, and joins a Cossack settlement, and then has to fight off the soldiers he deserted from. The art is great, and the characters look decidedly exotic. The story is standard adventure fare. But the morality of the story gives me pause. Our hero quits one army because he is sick of killing, but then shows no particular remorse when killing his former comrades as they come after him. The author kind of glossed over a few things there....

There is a second volume released. I'll be getting it sometime, and hopefully it'll be better.

Posted by: Castle Guy at December 10, 2023 10:13 AM (Lhaco)

121 And, seriously, what is it about Nixon? Lib writers from the 70s literally compare him to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Genghis Khan.

What was his body count again? I forget.
Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023 10:00 AM (78a2H)

the IC may well have indulged in some "paid fiction" against Nixon. I believe funds were made available to writers who would write books that put Nixon in the worst light. It was something that was done leading up to WWII in France, and during WWI the US paid for propaganda books to push to support the war.

This was a topic put forth by a writer, Michael Kurland, who had some decent sci-fi and also wrote some terrible books in the 70's

This is all speculation, but it fits a number of odd things that happened at that time.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 10, 2023 10:14 AM (D7oie)

122 Wow! That really is an awesome gift.
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette

Right? She's the best.

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at December 10, 2023 10:14 AM (vHIgi)

123 Old and busted: Genocide is a crime against humanity! Never again!

New hotness: Akctually...

Quite the societal shift, and it makes reading Hunter S. Thompson's ravings seem even more lame than they originally were. I mean to sell Hell's Angels, but it's got to be part of a larger effort. The book basically showed the author had zero growth throughout his career. He actually got worse with age. Sad.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 10:14 AM (llXky)

124 TERRIBLE book. Trust me.
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at December 10, 2023 10:12 AM (vHIgi)

I don't plan to read it. Probably won't watch the movie again either. It just didn't do anything for me.

Back later.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 10:15 AM (Angsy)

125 Nixon was a Republican but not in any way conservative except compared to his Dem opponents. His major sin in the libs' view was he was anti-communist which didn't keep him from going to China. Frankly, considering the damage that POS LBJ did, Nixon was a saint.

Posted by: JTB at December 10, 2023 10:15 AM (7EjX1)

126 But they both worked for me. Mrs Some Guy and the daughter love the movie and hate the book. Go figure.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023 10:12 AM (a/4+U)

I also like the book, slightly, better. Which may be because I read it just before watching the movie the first time, so the differences were jarring.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 10, 2023 10:15 AM (nC+QA)

127 Another hard book to read: El Aleph

Posted by: San Franpsycho at December 10, 2023 10:15 AM (RIvkX)

128 I bailed on Pynchon after significant time with Gravity's Rainbow. There might have been redemption at the end, but it had turned into a slog with very few rewards along the way. Frankly the backlog of available reading options has killed my desire to read non-fiction that I'm not enjoying.

Posted by: InspiredHistoryMike at December 10, 2023 10:16 AM (G7gvJ)

129 Book Forrest Gump > movie Forrest Gump.

Posted by: huerfano at December 10, 2023 10:16 AM (Q4KYm)

130 Know what’s a tougher read than Philip Jose Farmer? Nothing. That’s what.

Posted by: Eromero at December 10, 2023 10:16 AM (DXbAa)

131 This is booky.

9 Tiny Things That Still Outnumber Brian Stelter’s Failed Book

https://tinyurl.com/6r5ukevm

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at December 10, 2023 10:16 AM (FVME7)

132 This is despite the fact that she's not religious.
It's such a fantastic gift of love from her. I am so blessed.
Posted by: vmom
---
What a lovely gift!

Posted by: screaming in digital at December 10, 2023 10:17 AM (aBJcM)

133 Eh, wasn't as funny as the call outs you see online. Guess I just don't know funny.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 10:11 AM (Angsy)
---
It's a victim of its own success. You go into it and already know the best lines. Casablanca used to have this problem but now it's mostly vanished from the culture, so kids today can see it without knowing what to expect.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 10:17 AM (llXky)

134 It's such a fantastic gift of love from her. I am so blessed.
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at December 10, 2023 10:07 AM (vHIgi)

That sounds like a lovely gift.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at December 10, 2023 10:18 AM (OX9vb)

135 El Aleph:

If you plan to read Borges' fiction, try to dig up the Norman Thomas di Giovanni translations published by Dutton in the 70s and 80s. They read better than the Andrew Hurley versions from Viking.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023 10:18 AM (a/4+U)

136 Tom is a source of endless speculation for the readers, an enigma that Tolkien doesn't resolve in the books. But he is another wonder in a world full of unexplained wonders. I think he is important, at least to Tolkien, as an example of power with responsibility.

I'd disagree with this.

Tom is an example of power without responsibility.

At best, he's a pretty good example of the "Watchmaker God". "Welp, this world is your dealio now. I just made it. So, get on with whatever you need to do. I'll have nothing to do with it."

YMMV, but I see zero responsibility from him. Of course, if he did step in, there would be no story would there?

Posted by: naturalfake at December 10, 2023 10:19 AM (QzZeQ)

137 The government and press (which are the same thing) never forgave Nixon for outing Alger Hiss.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 10, 2023 10:19 AM (W5brt)

138 I'm currently reading Nevil Shute's The Far Country from 1952. Like a lot of his work, it's set in Australia, and again like most of his books I've read, it's low-key (with the possible exception of On the Beach -- destroying most of the world in a nuclear holocaust is hardly low-key). I've been hoping to find his No Highway, which gave rise to the 1950 or so movie No Highway in the Sky w/ James Stewart and Marlene Dietrich. Shute was an aeronautical engineer, so whenever he writes about planes and flying, it's on the money.

His final novel, Trustee From the Toolroom, features an unlikely hero: a short pudgy builder of engineering models in 1960 Britain embarks on a trip to Tahiti, hoping to find the legacy left by his sister and brother-in-law to their daughter.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 10:20 AM (omVj0)

139 I purchased that one later, from a rec in a very early Book Thread. Haven't finished it because I rage quit during the discussion of raising taxes only for the duration of a war, since that hasn't happened in forever.
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 10, 2023 10:03 AM (nC+QA)

The Mises Institute has beginners books, free in PDF, and at least one short online course, look for Mises Institute, Economics for Beginners.

as a side note, wars cost money and the gov can raise taxes, borrow it, or print more money. Taxes cause recessions, borrowing causes credit crises, and printing causes inflation.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 10, 2023 10:22 AM (D7oie)

140 reading James Michener's The Source.
Israel from prehistory through the early 60s - the long chapter about the ending of the Mandate and the war of Independence is where I am right now. that book was popular and not controversial when I first read it; wow, how the world has changed!

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying for decades at December 10, 2023 10:23 AM (zer5o)

141 This is booky.

9 Tiny Things That Still Outnumber Brian Stelter’s Failed Book

https://tinyurl.com/6r5ukevm
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at December 10, 2023 10:16 AM

Why would anyone buy a book by the Tater? And that's not even a hate fuelled question. I honestly don't understand.

Posted by: That Northernlurke embracing the suckd at December 10, 2023 10:23 AM (kmPM/)

142 Why would anyone buy a book by the Tater? And that's not even a hate fuelled question. I honestly don't understand.
Posted by: That Northernlurke embracing the suckd at December 10, 2023

***
Hate fuelled is fine too

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 10:25 AM (omVj0)

143 re: "Basic Economics". I tried reading Samuelson's book Economics a number of times and failed. He starts with macro-economics and I couldn't get past that. [ . . . ]
Posted by: yara at December 10, 2023 10:06 AM (xr64u)

IIRC Samuelson is a re-write of Nordhaus' book, and that every edition from 1940 to 1990 predicted that the USSR's central economy would soon eclips the US economy due to its centralized nature making it more effective.

Krugman co-wrote a text book based on the Nordhaus Samuelson book. An ex GF had it in an econ 101 class online and I helped her write one paper for that class. The prof felt her approach was old fashioned.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 10, 2023 10:26 AM (D7oie)

144 The most difficult book I've ever read or, well, pretended to read? Not even close: Fundamentals of Heat and Mass Transfer

Posted by: Cybersmythe at December 10, 2023 10:27 AM (iZEhM)

145 I bailed on Pynchon after significant time with Gravity's Rainbow. There might have been redemption at the end, but it had turned into a slog with very few rewards along the way. Frankly the backlog of available reading options has killed my desire to read non-fiction that I'm not enjoying.
Posted by: InspiredHistoryMike at December 10, 2023 10:16 AM (G7gvJ)

Well, the ending is actually the weakest part of the book.

It's basically an "entropic" ending, where everything smears into a homogenous fog of Meaninglessness(?).

Anyway, I was disappointed in the end even if I enjoyed the journey.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 10, 2023 10:28 AM (QzZeQ)

146 Ha, Cybersmythe, sounds riveting. Or something.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at December 10, 2023 10:29 AM (OX9vb)

147 then again if you consume cnn liberally the brain slugs have already chewed through your cerebellum

yes Michael Kurlands the Last President, Robert Coover went all obsession with nixon and the rosenbergs even though that was more a roy cohn thing,

Posted by: no 6 at December 10, 2023 10:30 AM (PXvVL)

148 I'll need to hit the library this week, and on the 23rd when I have my hair cut next, so I'll have some books on hand for the Christmas break.

On my TBR pile I have two novels by English mystery writers Peter Lovesey; Loren D. Estleman's historical novel of 1950s Detroit, Edsel; a Michael Chabon tome, Wonder Boys; and Shafter Range, a Western by an author I'm not familiar with, T.T. Flynn. All but one of the Loveseys will need to be renewed, as they are due 12/23.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 10:30 AM (omVj0)

149 >>>Why would anyone buy a book by the Tater? And that's not even a hate fuelled question. I honestly don't understand.

Posted by: That Northernlurke embracing the suckd

>>I tuned in to the Gorilla Channel the other day and a rerun of Trump's Apprentice was pulling down larger numbers than Stelter's written mindthoughts.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at December 10, 2023 10:30 AM (klzFH)

150 I read Cryptonomicon ~20 years ago (it’s been awhile)… very unique book so I dove into his Baroque Cycle trilogy. I got all the way through it, but it left a bad taste.

It took me two (or maybe three, who's counting?) tries to finish Cryptonomicon. Halfway through I was looking forward to reading the next book but by the time I finished, I just didn't care any more.

Posted by: Oddbob at December 10, 2023 10:30 AM (nfrXX)

151 Has anyone written a book about the Entwives?

Posted by: That Northernlurke embracing the suckd at December 10, 2023 10:30 AM (hCt6Y)

152 AHL, i was thinking along those same lines a few weeks ago ... everything after Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas is unrelieved crap, and F&L makes the cut only if read as if it were a fantasy novel.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying for decades at December 10, 2023 10:30 AM (zer5o)

153

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 10:31 AM (omVj0)

154 That Samuelson book has a special place in my heart. Critiquing that book in front of the econ class, and regularly challenging a socialist English teacher in political topics (and being sent to visit the dean for it) were the beginnings of my critical thinking development that made me what I am today.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 10, 2023 10:32 AM (W5brt)

155 Speaking of the covers lie, I remember a friend of mine she had all the Nancy Drew books on her shelf, and I would read them when we were not engaged in other activities.

The cover scene was never depicted in the books if I remember right, which I thought odd at the time.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 10, 2023 10:33 AM (R/m4+)

156 I tried reading William Burroughs' Naked Lunch once. That one is pretty unreadable.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at December 10, 2023 10:33 AM (OX9vb)

157 AHL, i was thinking along those same lines a few weeks ago ... everything after Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas is unrelieved crap, and F&L makes the cut only if read as if it were a fantasy novel.
Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying for decades at December 10, 2023

***
All I recall about F & L are the occasionally funny lines, as when Thompson tells his attorney, "Soak the handkerchief in ether and put it down by the gas pedal. Let the fumes rise up in our faces all the way to Vegas."

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 10:34 AM (omVj0)

158 everything after Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas is unrelieved crap, and F&L makes the cut only if read as if it were a fantasy novel

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying for decades at December 10, 2023 10:30 AM (zer5o)

ether binge

Posted by: BignJames at December 10, 2023 10:34 AM (AwYPR)

159 Whereas some simile lifted from say, Shakespeare would have them all nodding sagaciously at their own wisdom.

I have to hand it to you: you've managed to absorb the venom right through your guts. A regular hate machine.

Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at December 10, 2023 10:34 AM (FCs/J)

160 I thought Cryptonomicon was okay, some really good parts but toward the end it did get spotty and rather frayed.
Gravity's Rainbow was much the same, come to think about it ... I really enjoyed some of the character's names Pynchon used.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying for decades at December 10, 2023 10:34 AM (zer5o)

161 I didnt bother with the book, the johnny depp film was strange enough as well as the documentary with his illustrator steadman, he's insane

some of his anthologies like his 80s screed had some interesting twists, like he preferred pat buchanan to mitch daniels,

Posted by: no 6 at December 10, 2023 10:35 AM (PXvVL)

162 136 ... "Tom is an example of power without responsibility."

I still think ''responsibility' is correct but could add restraint. Bombadil is an individual both to himself and in Tolkien's world. He is responsible for himself and uses his power for his needs and purposes. That is dominion, not domination. He helps others but within his own boundaries. No hegemony for Tom.

Posted by: JTB at December 10, 2023 10:36 AM (7EjX1)

163 I never got the fascination of Hunter S Thompson.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at December 10, 2023 10:36 AM (R4t5M)

164 The shear volume of words, storylines and factoids in Cryptonolcon borderline overwhelmed me.

Posted by: That Northernlurke embracing the suckd at December 10, 2023 10:37 AM (hCt6Y)

165 Hunter S Thompson was a guilty pleasure of mine throughout high school. I couldn't afford all of those fancy drugs he was taking so I lived vicariously thru his whacked out prose and unique, gonzo perspective.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at December 10, 2023 10:38 AM (klzFH)

166 Movie so much better than book:
Princess Bride
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at December 10, 2023 10:09 AM

I agree, and I loved the book (except for the subplot of the narrator cheating on his wife with the starlet). Heck, I even wrote to the publisher for the "deleted scene" and received the narrator's response.

The movie was still better.

Posted by: NaughtyPine at December 10, 2023 10:38 AM (YJlID)

167 hah, Horde Mind!

yeah, a lot of funny lines lines in F&L

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying for decades at December 10, 2023 10:38 AM (zer5o)

168 The thing about book covers is funny. I worked in book publishing for many years and the only thing that illustrators got from the publisher was a blurb about the book. Usually it had not yet been published so they would not get proofs or galleys and they just had to figure out something that sounded vaguely like science fiction and throw that on the front. That's why you end up with these weird covers. 6K

Posted by: Beverly at December 10, 2023 10:40 AM (Epeb0)

169 Paperback covers . . . I grew up on the Signet early to mid-'60s paperback editions of the James Bond books. Each until about 1964 would have a small painting inspired by something in the novel right under Fleming's name and above the title. Casino Royale had a snapshot of Bond in tuxedo against the backdrop of a casino; Live and Let Die had an excellent painting of Mr. Big; etc. These were not so much an illustration of an actual scene, but more like mini-movie posters designed to get the buyer's attention. Which they did.

Fawcett Gold Medal did the same kind of thing with the Travis McGee books, though the central figure (painted, often, by the inimitable Robert McGinnis) was always an attractive woman as described in the novel. The Fawcett Matt Helms depicted an action scene from the novel. Both included a head shot of an artist's idea of what the hero, McGee or Helm, looked like, too.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 10:40 AM (omVj0)

170 just like the lt flandry covers suggested more innuendo then the stories told,

Posted by: no 6 at December 10, 2023 10:42 AM (PXvVL)

171 I understand the annoyance of a book cover that shows the illustrator didn't read the book, and was probably just given a few buzz words, and then did their thing.

But a book that occupies a world where men can't grow mustaches? Sorry, that just sounds like a profoundly silly thing.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 10:43 AM (QBaJw)

172 When I'm building furniture I make my own plan and cut list. I don't see things the same way as most people I assume.
Posted by: Thomas Paine
-- --
We aren't that skilled. I've tried reading books on building but I get lost in all the details and intimidated. I am learning about style. I like the small details but is it worth it when no one else appreciates it? I just learned about Greene & Greene and there are lots of books about the Craftsman style which I appreciate but I like simpler style.

Posted by: lin-duh at December 10, 2023 10:43 AM (QBwwm)

173 My brother made the mistake of telling me his daughter have been watching the newest Spider-Man cartoon, and that he recently sat them in front of the original Spider-Man movie (Rami, Maguire, Dafoe) and that they enjoyed it. So, now each of his daughters is getting a Might Marvel Masterworks Spider-Man book for Christmas. The original comics, from Lee and Ditko.

Since I've never read the originals before, I'm powering my way through them before I have to give the books away. I hate to admit, some of the stories are a little too childish/trite for my taste. But there are a few goo moment, and you can see why the character stuck around!

Oh, and young Peter Parker was kind a passive-aggressive dick. I guess his anger could be justified (a lot other characters are jerks to him), but its a really risky trait to give your main character....

Posted by: Castle Guy at December 10, 2023 10:44 AM (Lhaco)

174 I rather liked Ralph Steadman's illustration work; no worse than, say, Gahan Wilson ...
somewhere around here I have a Hunting of the Snark with Steadman illustrations.

SciFi book cover illustrations, oh gee, don't get me started!

I always liked Jack Gaughan's work a lot; I still lack a couple volumes to fill out the Lensman series I am rebuilding, but he did a lot that were more representational too

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying for decades at December 10, 2023 10:44 AM (zer5o)

175 I've always wondered what happened to the Nazgul after they got washed off their horses at the ford by Rivendell.
Did they have to walk all the way back to Mina Morgul?
When they got back Did Sauron yell at them?

Posted by: That Northernlurke embracing the suckd at December 10, 2023 10:45 AM (hCt6Y)

176 Has anyone yet kindly pointed out to Ms. Pool that no, the pudding reference does NOT refer to Pink Floyd?

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 10:45 AM (QBaJw)

177 Difficult ...in what way ?

Posted by: runner at December 10, 2023 10:45 AM (V13WU)

178 Do you ever buy books just because of the cover?

I have, on occasion. One was Snow Falling on Cedars. I think I liked it at the time, but not enough to read again, and I'm a big re-reader.

Posted by: screaming in digital at December 10, 2023 10:45 AM (aBJcM)

179 /off FBI svengali sock

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing(tT6L1) at December 10, 2023 10:46 AM (tT6L1)

180 What are you reading?

On War
by General Carl von Clausewitz

Posted by: The Hallmark Channel at December 10, 2023 10:46 AM (gO83f)

181 Wolfus,

Those Signet and Fawcett covers are the ones I remember from the days when I first started buying paperbacks.

Berkley and Ballantine made heavy use of Richard Powers covers. Lovely abstract things that didn't illustrate the sf books they graced, but entirely appropriate to the genre.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023 10:46 AM (a/4+U)

182 Difficult because boring , or difficult because of the subject matter ?

Posted by: runner at December 10, 2023 10:47 AM (V13WU)

183 I never got the fascination of Hunter S Thompson.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at December 10, 2023 10:36 AM (R4t5M)

I read a few of the well known books, many years ago. I found his writing style to be entertaining, and because he would "go there," it was exciting to read.

I would imagine if I tried now, I'd find it boring and stupid. I grew up. He never did.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 10:47 AM (QBaJw)

184 I'm still reading (on and off) Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell. Excellent book, down to earth explanations of a topic that is crucial to the basics of our society yet perceived as difficult (when it is not), and quite easy to read. After I read the first few chapters in sequence, I chose to skip around and read whatever chapter appealed at the moment. Thankfully, the topics are laid out in such a way that makes this possible.

Posted by: Legally Sufficient at December 10, 2023 10:47 AM (a8Rgt)

185 Wow! That really is an awesome gift.
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette

NICE !

Posted by: JT at December 10, 2023 10:49 AM (T4tVD)

186 Berkley and Ballantine made heavy use of Richard Powers covers. Lovely abstract things that didn't illustrate the sf books they graced, but entirely appropriate to the genre.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023

***
Ballantine would often have abstract things that would arouse "would not hang" from the AoS Art Thread commenters. However, they did a fantastic, realistic painting of Larry Niven's Ringworld on the edition (ca. 1974) of that novel I have. I think they realized that, even for SF fans, Niven's concept was so big that an actual view of the construct was needed.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 10:50 AM (omVj0)

187 I like the small details but is it worth it when no one else appreciates it? I just learned about Greene & Greene and there are lots of books about the Craftsman style which I appreciate but I like simpler style.
Posted by: lin-duh

I tend to focus on structural first and detail later, so my builds aren't too fancy. I sort of see the finished item in my mind and take it apart to see the individual parts. That is probably not a normal method. I find a joinery method that seems the strongest and go with it, then I add finishing details.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 10, 2023 10:51 AM (W5brt)

188 Buy a book for the cover?

Some of the work Leo and Diane Dillon did for the Ace Science Fiction Specials, and some of Richard Powers work for Berkley and Ballantine, and Michael Whelan's covers for the DAW Books Year's Best Horror series were worth the price of admission all by themselves. That the books were generally terrific helped. But yeah, I'd have bought a bunch of 'em just for the covers.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023 10:51 AM (a/4+U)

189 Raining out thar

Posted by: JT at December 10, 2023 10:52 AM (T4tVD)

190 A very slow week of reading, but I've hit page 500 of At Dawn We Slept and the Japanese bombs are just starting to fall on Pearl Harbor.

Posted by: who knew at December 10, 2023 10:53 AM (4I7VG)

191 Why would anyone buy a book by the Tater? And that's not even a hate fuelled question. I honestly don't understand.
Posted by: That Northernlurke embracing the suckd at December 10, 2023 10:23 AM (kmPM/)

If you listen to Alex Jones, and you should, he says Stetler is not just a buffoon, but truly evil. That he knows he's been assigned a role as spokesgimp for Satan, and revels in the role.

Maybe he's not totally serious about the Satan part, but this is Alex Jones we're talking about.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 10:53 AM (QBaJw)

192 Michael Whelan's covers for the DAW Books Year's Best Horror series were worth the price of admission all by themselves. That the books were generally terrific helped. But yeah, I'd have bought a bunch of 'em just for the covers.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023

***
Michael Whelan's cover for Heinlein's Friday is perfect for the story -- it's tantalizing, showing Miss Friday in her jumpsuit from the waist up, without being salacious, and yet quite realistic.

Back when paperback covers did show salacious views of women, when I was in my teens, heck yes I bought some for that.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 10:55 AM (omVj0)

193 Richard Meyer (Ya Boy Zack) on his YouTube channel pointed out an interesting fact about the early Spider-Man comics when Stan Lee was writing them: Flash Thompson's bullying of Peter Parker mostly consists of . . . trying to get Peter to stop studying and attend social events. I think Stan had a better grasp of human psychology than most of us realize.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023 10:56 AM (78a2H)

194 >>>Do you ever buy books just because of the cover?

I have, on occasion. One was Snow Falling on Cedars. I think I liked it at the time, but not enough to read again, and I'm a big re-reader.

Posted by: screaming in digital

>Ha! I admit that I have done this before with Frank Frazetta and Boris Vallejo covers. Teenagers with a dominant eye captured visually.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at December 10, 2023 10:56 AM (klzFH)

195 Why would anyone buy a book by the Tater? And that's not even a hate fuelled question. I honestly don't understand.
---
More than that, why would anyone put Tater on TV? And yet they did...

Posted by: screaming in digital at December 10, 2023 10:56 AM (aBJcM)

196 Ha, Cybersmythe, sounds riveting. Or something.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at December 10, 2023 10:29 AM

No, riveting was covered in the structural design course which had no textbook, just a handful of photocopied notes from the instructor.

That was also the only course where I scored a perfect score on a test.

Posted by: Cybersmythe at December 10, 2023 10:57 AM (iZEhM)

197 This is about us, isn't it?

Posted by: Cleavage and bodice ripping at December 10, 2023 10:58 AM (NBVIP)

198 Back when paperback covers did show salacious views of women, when I was in my teens, heck yes I bought some for that.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius
---
LOL. I admit, I wasn't thinking of the teenage boy angle with that question. guess I forgot where I am for a moment ;-)

I'm not sure who the dudes on romance novel covers are supposed to appeal to, but most are too oily to be appealing even to a frumpy middle aged librarian.

Posted by: screaming in digital at December 10, 2023 10:59 AM (aBJcM)

199 Doctor Who fandom, for example, used to be extremely selective because it was so damn difficult to even watch the show. Now every poseur midwit proclaims themselves a fan and of course Disney wrapped its tentacles around it as well.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 10, 2023 09:47 AM (llXky)

Heh. According to a lot of YouTubers, the Dr Who fandom is quickly becoming a lot more 'selective,' albeit in a different manner...By which I mean the newest incarnations of the show are driving it into the gutter!

Posted by: Castle Guy at December 10, 2023 11:00 AM (Lhaco)

200 For those of you who haven't seen the townhall Patrick Bet-David did with RFK Jr., and I think it's worth one's time to do so, RFK does a long discussion of his father's death.

He names the killer. And his connections to the CIA.

As he was talking, I was thinking "he read Lisa Pease's book, 'A Lie Too Big to Fail." And then in the middle of his screed, he mentions her by name.

So... I will once again recommend the book. "A Lie Too Big to Fail" lays out all the info on RFK's murder, and reaches the incontrovertible conclusion that, not only did Sirhan NOT kill RFK, but that it is virtually impossible not to conclude the CIA did.

She alludes to the other well known assassinations of the era, and suggests other books that will offer the same type of analysis of each of those. So while I've not looked that far into it, I'm nearly certain James Earl Ray did not kill MLK, and that was the CIA too. Or FBI. I'll have to see the evidence, which I haven't.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:00 AM (QBaJw)

201 Thompson is still fun to read, but I don't think anyone reads anything beyond Vegas and Hell's Angels even now. Tom Wolfe's journalism holds up much better.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023 11:01 AM (78a2H)

202 Has anyone yet kindly pointed out to Ms. Pool that no, the pudding reference does NOT refer to Pink Floyd?
Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 10:45 AM

Depends. Do we want to frighten the lurkers away?

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at December 10, 2023 11:01 AM (r0ew3)

203 What's all this talk about taters? People don't like taters? It's one of the most versatile foods you can cook! Casseroles, stews, soups, french fries... what? Oh. Never mind...

Posted by: Emily Litella at December 10, 2023 11:01 AM (NBVIP)

204 This is about us, isn't it?
Posted by: Cleavage and bodice ripping at December 10, 2023

***
Cleavage, yes, but bodice ripping suggests that historical romance genre that women read and men don't. So the suggestive covers for those, I'd guess, are more to highlight the male hero and his relationship to the heroine, and to signal to the female reader, "Yes, this is another in the ____ series you haven't read. Buy me!"

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 11:01 AM (omVj0)

205 Was it here in the Book Thread that our host posted a photo of a bookstore with a shelf labeled "Men Who Can't Button Their Shirts"?

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023 11:02 AM (78a2H)

206 175 ... "I've always wondered what happened to the Nazgul after they got washed off their horses at the ford by Rivendell.
Did they have to walk all the way back to Mina Morgul?"

As I recall, the horses perished in the flood but I assumed they eventually stole others. It did deter them for some time which gave the Fellowship time to travel before any Nazgul reappear.

No hint how Sauron dealt with their failure but how much could he do? Sauron still needed them as much as ever.

Posted by: JTB at December 10, 2023 11:03 AM (7EjX1)

207 Got all outside stuff done, waiting on the rain
Yeah yeah

Posted by: Skip at December 10, 2023 11:03 AM (fwDg9)

208 Richard Meyer (Ya Boy Zack) on his YouTube channel pointed out an interesting fact about the early Spider-Man comics when Stan Lee was writing them: Flash Thompson's bullying of Peter Parker mostly consists of . . . trying to get Peter to stop studying and attend social events. I think Stan had a better grasp of human psychology than most of us realize.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023

***
Is that the same Richard Meyers who wrote TV Detectives back in the '80s? Or maybe his son?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 11:03 AM (omVj0)

209 Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but didn't the Nazgul form a band? Think George R. R. Martin's The Armageddon Rag was about them...

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023 11:05 AM (a/4+U)

210 > Michael Whelan's cover for Heinlein's Friday is perfect for the story -- it's tantalizing, showing Miss Friday in her jumpsuit from the waist up, without being salacious, and yet quite realistic.

The original cover for Heinlein's "The Cat Who Walks Through Walls" depicted Col. Colin Campbell as a white man, despite the fact that he was described as black in the book itself. The publisher resorted to printing him darker and darker in future editions, but the best they were able to do was making him look like a tanned white man. Heh.

> Back when paperback covers did show salacious views of women, when I was in my teens, heck yes I bought some for that.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 10:55 AM (omVj0)

One from my own teens. Yeah, the cover indicated that quality entertainment for an adolescent boy was to be found inside.

https://tinyurl.com/4dr9nb9b

I still have fond memories of that cover.

Posted by: Rocky Raccoon at December 10, 2023 11:06 AM (W5ArC)

211
I had a copy of "Gravity's Rainbow". "Had" is the operative word -- if I got fifty pages into it, I'm lying.

Were it a paperback edition, it would be a doorstop somewhere around this house. As it was not, it is rotting in a landfill somewhere, probably in Virginia or here in Delaware.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 10, 2023 11:06 AM (xG4kz)

212 Depends. Do we want to frighten the lurkers away?
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at December 10, 2023 11:01 AM (r0ew3)

Heh. I say yes. Yes we do.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:07 AM (QBaJw)

213 Eh, wasn't as funny as the call outs you see online. Guess I just don't know funny.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 10:11 AM (Angsy)

Um, I'm not sure if I'd call The Princess Bride "funny," at least not laugh-out-loud-funny, but rather amusing and very quotable. Or maybe just "quippy". It is a very quippy movie...

Posted by: Castle Guy at December 10, 2023 11:08 AM (Lhaco)

214 My take the horses of the Nazgul were just real horses, the Nazgul could be killed so did they make it out of the flood?
Either way when the One Ring was destroyed not sure all others were effected.

Posted by: Skip at December 10, 2023 11:09 AM (fwDg9)

215 From all the books I might have read, I really don't remember the covers of paperbacks. Maybe I just read hardcovers from the library.

Covers are an interesting subject. I gave a little bit of thought to stuff I've done, but nothing serious.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 11:09 AM (Angsy)

216 I took an English class in college on novels. We read one a week. The exercise taught me that some books are called "classics" only because others call them classics. I can remember nothing about Vanity Fair other than I hated it and couldn't imagine why anyone voluntarily subjected themselves to reading it - let alone proclaimed to enjoy it. No need for hundreds of pages of an overwrought soap opera to say that egotistical and shallow people are jerks.

The class also taught me that you can learn things from both positive and negative examples. A lesson that extends beyond books to jobs, people, etc.

Posted by: TRex at December 10, 2023 11:11 AM (IQ6Gq)

217
Um, I'm not sure if I'd call The Princess Bride "funny," at least not laugh-out-loud-funny, but rather amusing and very quotable. Or maybe just "quippy". It is a very quippy movie...
Posted by: Castle Guy at December 10, 2023

***
William Goldman was good at that quippy stuff. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid is full of funny lines. Though now that I think about it, most of the films he wrote, or adapted from his own novels, are not like that at all. There's humor, but it's not the same kind as in BC.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 11:11 AM (omVj0)

218 *It is a very quippy movie...*

Joey do you like movies about gladiators?

Posted by: Obligatory at December 10, 2023 11:11 AM (NBVIP)

219 What's all this talk about taters? People don't like taters? It's one of the most versatile foods you can cook! Casseroles, stews, soups, french fries... what? Oh. Never mind...
---
Po-tay-toes... Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew...

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee at December 10, 2023 11:11 AM (aBJcM)

220 I had a copy of "Gravity's Rainbow". "Had" is the operative word -- if I got fifty pages into it, I'm lying.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 10, 2023 11:06 AM (xG4kz)

I just sorta take it for granted that both Pynchon and Joyce were only really relevant to certain times, and their epic, unreadable books were not really meant to be read, but as a big fat F you to their critics.

Almost like Picasso did with some of his "paintings," where he dared the critics to say it was shite. Even when it was shite. Especially when it was shite.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:12 AM (QBaJw)

221 I'm not sure who the dudes on romance novel covers are supposed to appeal to, but most are too oily to be appealing even to a frumpy middle aged librarian.
Posted by: screaming in digital at December 10, 2023 10:59 AM (aBJcM)

I thought they were all Fabio? Isn't that what romance readers want??

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 11:12 AM (Angsy)

222
"I've always wondered what happened to the Nazgul after they got washed off their horses at the ford by Rivendell.
Did they have to walk all the way back to Mina Morgul?"

They formed a traveling troupe, "Angmar and the Nazgul Eight" and toured the backwater taverns and inns of Rohan and Gondor. They delivered a "smashing and scarifying farewell performance" in Osgiliath before skeedaddling to Minas Morgul.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 10, 2023 11:12 AM (xG4kz)

223 My take the horses of the Nazgul were just real horses, the Nazgul could be killed so did they make it out of the flood?
Either way when the One Ring was destroyed not sure all others were effected.
Posted by: Skip at December 10, 2023 11:09 AM (fwDg9)

I'd have to reread the book, I really don't remember what happened to them. Honestly, there are events in the movies that, I'm not even sure they were IN the books!

For some reason though, I have it in my head that some of the Nazzies did NOT survive the drowning.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:15 AM (QBaJw)

224 I remember the paperback cover of M*A*S*H:

https://tinyurl.com/6bzw9bdj

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 10, 2023 11:15 AM (NBVIP)

225 Before I forget, and I usually do, thanks for the Book Thread Perfessor.

Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at December 10, 2023 11:16 AM (VloHh)

226 They formed a traveling troupe, "Angmar and the Nazgul Eight" and toured the backwater taverns and inns of Rohan and Gondor. They delivered a "smashing and scarifying farewell performance" in Osgiliath before skeedaddling to Minas Morgul.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 10, 2023 11:12 AM (xG4kz)

So basically, Kiss.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:16 AM (QBaJw)

227 Wolfus: I very much doubt it. Ya Boy Zack is an indy comics writer/publisher and a veteran; from his videos I get the idea he comes from a solidly blue-collar background, not literary/academic.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023 11:17 AM (78a2H)

228 Um, I'm not sure if I'd call The Princess Bride "funny," at least not laugh-out-loud-funny, but rather amusing and very quotable. Or maybe just "quippy". It is a very quippy movie...
Posted by: Castle Guy at December 10, 2023 11:08 AM (Lhaco)

Well, I was expecting more than it delivered to me. I liked all the actors in it. It just seemed something you have to like, even if it leaves you cold.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 11:17 AM (Angsy)

229 > I thought they were all Fabio? Isn't that what romance readers want??

Heh.... I remember Fabio describing when he first realized how famous he was. He'd basically done those covers for eating money, and had no idea how popular they were in the United States.

Then he went clubbing on a visit to Miami...

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at December 10, 2023 11:18 AM (W5ArC)

230 Angmar and the Nazgul Eight used to play The Birchmere.

Posted by: Back in the day at December 10, 2023 11:19 AM (NBVIP)

231
For some reason though, I have it in my head that some of the Nazzies did NOT survive the drowning.
Posted by: BurtTC

No, they all survived.

Their leader, the Witch King of Angmar, perished at the hands of Merry and Eowyn. The remaining eight augured in when Frodo and Sam's mission to destroy the One Ring succeeded.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 10, 2023 11:19 AM (xG4kz)

232 Goldman was terrific at quippy. There is very little funny about the story in Boys and Girls Together, but there are quite a few laughs to be found there. Ditto Marathon Man and Magic (for my money two of the best thrillers of the 70s). Even when the later novels didn't seem to hang together as well as the earlier ones there were always portions that were so damned good (maybe funny, maybe not) that I never once felt that I'd wasted money buying one of his books. And I laughed my kazoozis off all the way through The Princess Bride (novel, not movie).

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023 11:20 AM (a/4+U)

233 I read Gravity's Rainbow and was not impressed. Pynchon did the same thing in Crying of Lot 49 but used a heck of a lot fewer pages, making it lean and interesting instead of draggy and unfunny.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023 11:20 AM (78a2H)

234 Wolfus: I very much doubt it. Ya Boy Zack is an indy comics writer/publisher and a veteran; from his videos I get the idea he comes from a solidly blue-collar background, not literary/academic.
Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023

***
I don't think the Richard Meyers who wrote TV Detectives is literary or academic. I met him at an SF con in 1985, and he definitely came across as a non-academic. He's seventy now; how old is this fellow you mention?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 11:20 AM (omVj0)

235 I DIDN'T see Angmar and the Nazgul Eight open for David Bowie on the "Scary Monsters (and Super Creeps)" tour back in '80, because Bowie cancelled the tour after John Lennon was shot to death.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at December 10, 2023 11:21 AM (W5ArC)

236 Um, I'm not sure if I'd call The Princess Bride "funny," at least not laugh-out-loud-funny, but rather amusing and very quotable. Or maybe just "quippy". It is a very quippy movie...
Posted by: Castle Guy at December 10, 2023 11:08 AM (Lhaco)

Someone was talking about this the other day, might have been the RLM boys, but... yeah, I'm sure it was them. It was a reference to the fact that there's a difference between lines that are funny, and movies that are intentionally seeking laughs, and those that have events that are so absurd, but the actors are playing it straight, that you can't help but laugh if you get what they're doing.

But you can still enjoy it if you don't! It's not even a question of whether you're supposed to "get it" or not, just a matter of what tickles YOU, versus what is supposed to be universally funny.

A guy slipping on a banana peel is supposed to be funny. A guy traveling around the landscrape, looking for the guy who killed his paw... you either find his mannerisms funny or you don't. Entirely up to you.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:21 AM (QBaJw)

237 193 Richard Meyer (Ya Boy Zack) on his YouTube channel pointed out an interesting fact about the early Spider-Man comics when Stan Lee was writing them: Flash Thompson's bullying of Peter Parker mostly consists of . . . trying to get Peter to stop studying and attend social events. I think Stan had a better grasp of human psychology than most of us realize.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023 10:56 AM (78a2H)

At least from issues 1-15, I would disagree with Ya Boy Zack. Flash is a bonefide jerk, pretty much always calling Pete "Puny Parker" and making a lot of snide comments about being a bookworm. But he typically sticks to snide remarks (and an occasional prank), without a whole lot of actual 'bullying'. Also, they are quick make Flash a vocal supporter of Spider-Man, which does make the relationship between the two of them quite odd....

Posted by: Castle Guy at December 10, 2023 11:22 AM (Lhaco)

238 Before I forget, and I usually do, thanks for the Book Thread Perfessor.
Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at December 10, 2023 11:16 AM (VloHh)

Seconded !

Posted by: JT at December 10, 2023 11:23 AM (T4tVD)

239 Goldman was terrific at quippy. There is very little funny about the story in Boys and Girls Together, but there are quite a few laughs to be found there. Ditto Marathon Man and Magic (for my money two of the best thrillers of the 70s). Even when the later novels didn't seem to hang together as well as the earlier ones there were always portions that were so damned good (maybe funny, maybe not) that I never once felt that I'd wasted money buying one of his books. And I laughed my kazoozis off all the way through The Princess Bride (novel, not movie).
Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023

***
Goldman's other trademark, and one I wish I could work, was The One Line That Changes Everything. Ex.: In Butch, we think we are about to witness Sundance raping Etta Place. And then she mutters, "Just once I wish you'd be on time!" Everything changes in that instant.

In Marathon Man, I think, he does it twice.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 11:23 AM (omVj0)

240 Point of order: player has used the word "augur" and it's unclear from context if it's being used as a noun or verb. Lose a turn and go back two spaces. (Picks up yellow flag from the field.)

Posted by: Game Referee at December 10, 2023 11:24 AM (NBVIP)

241 >>>Almost like Picasso did with some of his "paintings," where he dared the critics to say it was shite. Even when it was shite. Especially when it was shite.

Posted by: BurtTC

>I always thought Picasso was fascinating. His admirers even more so. Before the advent of CAD systems, I was a student and gainfully employed in the world of drafting. My talent was as much as anything Picasso ever had but nobody ever offered me a million for a mass-produced automotive part or assembly.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at December 10, 2023 11:24 AM (klzFH)

242
I finished the first half of "Noble House", and I'm closing in on finishing "The Uplift War". I am embarked on a mission to read and pass along the books I already have on hand in the next couple of years.

We need to thin the hoards of crap we've accumulated in over a quarter century of married life, lived almost entirely in this one dwelling. This week I am focused on ridding myself of clothing that I will no longer wear.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 10, 2023 11:25 AM (xG4kz)

243 Marathon Man's big reversal moment is the one that brings the parallel narratives of grad student Babe and badass operative Scylla together. No way to do that in the movie as you had to see the characters, but in the book it's a shocker.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023 11:27 AM (a/4+U)

244
I think that "augered" was the word that I oughter have used, but 'oo gives a shit?

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 10, 2023 11:28 AM (xG4kz)

245 We need to thin the hoards of crap we've accumulated in over a quarter century of married life, lived almost entirely in this one dwelling. This week I am focused on ridding myself of clothing that I will no longer wear.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 10, 2023

***
I need to do that too.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 11:28 AM (omVj0)

246 Point of order: player has used the word "augur" and it's unclear from context if it's being used as a noun or verb. Lose a turn and go back two spaces. (Picks up yellow flag from the field.)
Posted by: Game Referee at December 10, 2023 11:24 AM (NBVIP)

Ruling from the video replay committee: the O.P. used the term "augur in", which is a commonly-used term in the world of aircraft, describing a wreck caused by flying the plane into the ground.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 10, 2023 11:28 AM (0p6ju)

247 Ya Boi is a Second Iraq war vet, and from the comics he reminisces about, I'd guess he was born in the mid 1970s.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023 11:28 AM (78a2H)

248 This week I am focused on ridding myself of clothing that I will no longer wear.
---
Just keep your pants on for another half hour until the thread is over, unless you're posing for a romance novel cover.

Posted by: screaming in digital at December 10, 2023 11:28 AM (aBJcM)

249
I just sorta take it for granted that both Pynchon and Joyce were only really relevant to certain times, and their epic, unreadable books were not really meant to be read, but as a big fat F you to their critics.

Nah. Not in Pynchon's case.

If you read his first two novels before GR, "The Crying of Lot 49"(the one and only book read in Ace's book club. He liked it.), and "V" you could see he was building towards what became "Gravity's Rainbow".

Though GR is as he say, a book of its time. Not quite dead on arrival as "Finnegan's Wake" was. i doubt I'd read it again.

Lately, I've been thinking of rereading, "Ratner's Star" Don DeLillo's "bad imitation" of a Pynchon GR-style novel.

I think for a while they were in competition to see who was the Big Daddy of Literary Fiction. I guess DeLillo won.

Anyway, if you want to read a Pynchon novel that you're liable to enjoy. check out "V". It's his best novel.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 10, 2023 11:28 AM (QzZeQ)

250 Marathon Man's big reversal moment is the one that brings the parallel narratives of grad student Babe and badass operative Scylla together. No way to do that in the movie as you had to see the characters, but in the book it's a shocker.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023

***
There's another one later involving "Janey" -- and I think that one did make it into the film.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 11:29 AM (omVj0)

251 Ya Boi is a Second Iraq war vet, and from the comics he reminisces about, I'd guess he was born in the mid 1970s.
Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023

***
If he's "Meyer" and the guy I mention is "Meyers," then that, plus what you say, cements it that they are two different guys.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 11:30 AM (omVj0)

252 The Nazgul survived the flood. They were wraiths, basically undead, so they could not be destroyed by ordinary means. They stole horses. There is a line in the book about "Let Rohan look to their horses" implying that the Nazgul would go there.
When Frodo put on the ring in the mountain, Sauron became aware of him and the plan. He pulled the Nazgul out of the battle on the Field of Cormallen and sent them after Frodo. When the ring was destroyed, the Nazgul fell flaming from the sky, withered and went out.
I'm 73 and have read LOTR yearly since I was 18.

Posted by: Terentia at December 10, 2023 11:31 AM (9Nlqa)

253
Ruling from the video replay committee: the O.P. used the term "augur in", which is a commonly-used term in the world of aircraft, describing a wreck caused by flying the plane into the ground.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon

I recall that usage from Tom Wolfe's "The Right Stuff", wherein he described aircraft test pilots being mightily annoyed when urinalists would quote that phrase to them whenever one of their compatriots perished during test flights.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 10, 2023 11:31 AM (xG4kz)

254 I highly recommend Winston Churchill's multi-volume history of World Ear II. He is a masterful prose stylist, deft and at times merciless in his delineation of the personalities involved, as well as havng the ultimate view from the top of the mountain.

Book One is "The Gathering Storm," and it has quite a few echoes with our times.

Posted by: Beverly at December 10, 2023 11:31 AM (Epeb0)

255 Ruling from the video replay committee: the O.P. used the term "augur in", which is a commonly-used term in the world of aircraft, describing a wreck caused by flying the plane into the ground.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 10, 2023

***
That should be "augEr in," inspired by the woodworking tool the auger. "AugUr" was the ancient Roman official who inspected sacrificial animals and decided what the future held.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 11:32 AM (omVj0)

256 No, they all survived.

Their leader, the Witch King of Angmar, perished at the hands of Merry and Eowyn. The remaining eight augured in when Frodo and Sam's mission to destroy the One Ring succeeded.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 10, 2023 11:19 AM (xG4kz)

See, that's the thing that bugs me about the movies, not so much that they changed things, but that I don't think Jaxson made it clear whether some of them perished or not.

Or maybe he did, and it's just my brain that doesn't have it sorted out. In part because the further I get away from having read the book, and seen the movies, the less I care.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:33 AM (QBaJw)

257 I spoze I kinda understand the unbuttoned shirt thing, but why does every romance-novel-cover-guy have a 3-day stubble?
visual proof of the presence of testosterone ?

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying for decades at December 10, 2023 11:34 AM (zer5o)

258 Nit pick - "augur in" should mean flying into the ground while the plane is rotating rapidly, usually from wing damage.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 10, 2023 11:34 AM (S6gqv)

259 Nit pick - "augur in" should mean flying into the ground while the plane is rotating rapidly, usually from wing damage.
Posted by: Tom Servo at December 10, 2023

***
True -- but see my 255.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 11:35 AM (omVj0)

260 Perfessor, thanks for another great thread. I played hooky from church today and it was nice to be here live and not Memorex.

Have a good one, Horde. See y'all on the gub thread.

Posted by: screaming in digital at December 10, 2023 11:36 AM (aBJcM)

261 I recall that usage from Tom Wolfe's "The Right Stuff", wherein he described aircraft test pilots being mightily annoyed when urinalists would quote that phrase to them whenever one of their compatriots perished during test flights.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 10, 2023 11:31 AM (xG4kz)

Yes. The usual implication of the term is that a perfectly flyable aircraft is flown into contact with the ground due to pilot error. Like JFK, Jr.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 10, 2023 11:36 AM (0p6ju)

262 I'm 73 and have read LOTR yearly since I was 18.
Posted by: Terentia at December 10, 2023 11:31 AM (9Nlqa)

Honestly, I admire that.

Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at December 10, 2023 11:36 AM (VloHh)

263 The Paolo something something unbuttoned shirt something how you say something something book cover.

Posted by: Obligatory Paolo reference at December 10, 2023 11:36 AM (NBVIP)

264 K vs C; "urinalists", LOL!

someone send a memo to Ace and the COBs recommending this for inclusion in the Moron Lexicon!

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying for decades at December 10, 2023 11:36 AM (zer5o)

265 Well, I was expecting more than it delivered to me. I liked all the actors in it. It just seemed something you have to like, even if it leaves you cold.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 11:17 AM (Angsy)

Maybe it helps if you think of Wallace Shawn's character as basically the same guy as in his well known role "My Dinner With Andre." And here he is, conversing with Andre the Giant!

I don't know how that's not funny. I also think, and I don't know whether they imply it or not, that Peter Falk's character is Columbo. He's just off duty.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:36 AM (QBaJw)

266 IIRC the book doesn't specify what happened to the other Nazgul, but as creatures who were dependent on the Ring they should have gone Poof when the power of the Ring was gone.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 10, 2023 11:37 AM (S6gqv)

267 I spoze I kinda understand the unbuttoned shirt thing, but why does every romance-novel-cover-guy have a 3-day stubble?
visual proof of the presence of testosterone ?
Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying for decades at December 10, 2023 11:34 AM (zer5o)

Adventurers don't have time to shave?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 10, 2023 11:37 AM (0p6ju)

268 I also think, and I don't know whether they imply it or not, that Peter Falk's character is Columbo. He's just off duty.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023

***
Peter Falk is in The Princess Bride?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 11:38 AM (omVj0)

269 I think planes "auger in" because they're drilling a hole in the ground. Presumably they only "augur in" if the entrails of the sacrificial animals say they're going to crash.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 10, 2023 11:38 AM (78a2H)

270 In fact, I'd like to see a remake of "My Dinner With Andre," but an illustrated version, where Shawn is Rex from Toy Story, and Andre is... oh, I don't know, Slinky? Mr. Potato Head?

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:38 AM (QBaJw)

271 Falk is the grandfather reading the story to the kid.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023 11:39 AM (a/4+U)

272 Peter Falk is in The Princess Bride?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 11:38 AM (omVj0)

Yeah, he's reading the story to his grandson, Fred Savage.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:39 AM (QBaJw)

273 Gotcha, Wolfus! I'm sure the term originated in WW2 where pilots witnessed shot up planes going into the ground pretty frequently.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 10, 2023 11:39 AM (S6gqv)

274 "The Right Stuff" was both a wonderful book and movie.

The movie seems a natural for a 4K upgrade.

I guess no one cares about that particular great shining moment in America's History any longer.

Instead of a robust program of space travel and useful products flowing into regular society, we got....

*checks notes*

...endless welfare expansion to encourage illegal aliens.

Well then, at least the Space Program's successor had aliens in it!

Posted by: naturalfake at December 10, 2023 11:40 AM (QzZeQ)

275 Indiana Jones and the Five Bladed Razor.

Posted by: Coming This Summer! at December 10, 2023 11:40 AM (NBVIP)

276
'Augur' or 'Auger'?
How to decipher signs of their confusion

What to Know
Auger is generally a noun referring to a tool used for boring holes or moving loose material. Augur can be a noun or a verb, referring to one who foretells events based on omens, or the act of doing so. If something "augurs well" or "augurs ill," it means that something good or bad is predicted to happen, respectively.

I first used "augured in", which used the wrong word. I later acknowledged that error and corrected it to "augered", which was the right word and a proper context for the phrase "augered in" was as has been described here.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 10, 2023 11:40 AM (xG4kz)

277 And one more thing...

Posted by: Peter Falk at December 10, 2023 11:41 AM (NBVIP)

278 true, that's a good point AOP, but they all have it, even if the character is a doctor or a billionaire CEO

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying for decades at December 10, 2023 11:42 AM (zer5o)

279 Outside world beckons.

Thanks for the thread, Perfessor. Always a pleasure.

Have a good one, gang.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 10, 2023 11:42 AM (a/4+U)

280 Perfessor Squirrel, I would like to thank you for the link in last week's book thread to the mosaic puzzle company that was the top pic on last week's thread. Oh my the variety of offerings! I ordered a Christmas one for family fun and a classical art one with the adhesive and frame kit for my DIL.

Definitely a cut above. Thank you.

Posted by: cfo mom at December 10, 2023 11:42 AM (tCSBH)

281 "I later acknowledged that error and corrected it to "augered", which was the right word and a proper context for the phrase "augered in" was as has been described here."

Will the timekeeper please put ten seconds back on the game clock.

Posted by: Game Referee at December 10, 2023 11:44 AM (NBVIP)

282 A touching story from Princess Bride - Fred Savage later said that when they were filming, he thought that Peter Falk was just some nice older man who'd come in and do some lines with him. Savage related that Falk was always extremely kind with him, helping him with his lines and giving him advice. He said he didn't realize for years that Falk was a Big star, because he never acted like it. Just a very kind man.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 10, 2023 11:44 AM (S6gqv)

283
The movie seems a natural for a 4K upgrade.

I guess no one cares about that particular great shining moment in America's History any longer.

I would rather that it be left as it was. The casting for the film was outstanding. We now have no equals to Sam Shepard, Chuck Yeager and Barbara Hershey worthy of playing the roles they filled for the Edwards AFB portion of that film.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 10, 2023 11:44 AM (xG4kz)

284 "The Right Stuff" was both a wonderful book and movie.

The movie seems a natural for a 4K upgrade.

I guess no one cares about that particular great shining moment in America's History any longer.
...
Posted by: naturalfake at December 10, 2023 11:40 AM (QzZeQ)

I just like the scene where John Glenn is on the phone with his wife... he's at work, of course, and she's telling him the Vice President, Lyndon Johnson is outside and wants to come in. Glenn... as played by Ed Harris is probably a better John Glenn than John Glenn was, tells her to tell the Veep to go blank himself.

I want to believe that really happened.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:45 AM (QBaJw)

285 "Do you ever buy books just because of the cover?"
Last time it wasn't the cover but the title. I was in a bookstore in Portland, Maine and saw "Small Town Talk" on the spine of a book on the cut-out rack. I had to look at it because that's one of my favorite songs and it turned out to be a book about the Woodstock NY music scene (The Band, Dylan, the Mulduars, Paul Butterfield, and others) and it was named after the song. It's still on the TBR pile so I can't give you a review.

Posted by: who knew at December 10, 2023 11:45 AM (4I7VG)

286 Apropos of nothing...

I want a rideable, flaming, Pegasus pony as depicted on one of the book covers above,

for Christmas.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 10, 2023 11:45 AM (QzZeQ)

287 true, that's a good point AOP, but they all have it, even if the character is a doctor or a billionaire CEO
Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying for decades at December 10, 2023 11:42 AM (zer5o)

The implication is the hero and heroine are spending all their waking hours having hot monkey sex. sometimes even together.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 10, 2023 11:46 AM (0p6ju)

288 *He said he didn't realize for years that Falk was a Big star, because he never acted like it. Just a very kind man.*

It was probably the trench coat.

Posted by: Peter Falk at December 10, 2023 11:46 AM (NBVIP)

289 Apropos of nothing...

I want a rideable, flaming, Pegasus pony as depicted on one of the book covers above,

for Christmas.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 10, 2023 11:45 AM (QzZeQ)

I want the flaming harley from the movie Ghost Rider.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at December 10, 2023 11:47 AM (VwHCD)

290 A touching story from Princess Bride - Fred Savage later said that when they were filming, he thought that Peter Falk was just some nice older man who'd come in and do some lines with him. Savage related that Falk was always extremely kind with him, helping him with his lines and giving him advice. He said he didn't realize for years that Falk was a Big star, because he never acted like it. Just a very kind man.
Posted by: Tom Servo at December 10, 2023 11:44 AM (S6gqv)

I'm really glad to hear that. These days, you have to wonder about anyone/everyone who ever worked with kids in Hollowood.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:47 AM (QBaJw)

291 OK this is awesome:

https://tinyurl.com/Longvcrossladder

Long ladder or cross ladder?

Posted by: Scottst at December 10, 2023 11:47 AM (RT+KD)

292 Maybe it helps if you think of Wallace Shawn's character as basically the same guy as in his well known role "My Dinner With Andre." And here he is, conversing with Andre the Giant!

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:36 AM (QBaJw)

Never saw DWA. Is that the one with Classie Freddie Blassie?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 11:48 AM (Angsy)

293 Don’t believe it’s difficult to read but I’ve never been able to get past the set up chapters in Lucifer’s Hammer.

Posted by: Drive By at December 10, 2023 11:49 AM (MNhXM)

294 Book One is "The Gathering Storm," and it has quite a few echoes with our times.

Posted by: Beverly at December 10, 2023 11:31 AM (Epeb0)

Yes. It definitely does. Which is why I couldn't get through it the first time. Not exactly light reading for waiting during John's cyberknife radiation appointments. Eventually I got the entire series on Kindle and could read, or rather listen to, them at my own pace with no worry about library due dates.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 10, 2023 11:49 AM (nC+QA)

295 Here's a long read, but it tells the story of the hateful Harvard President. It's shocking.

https://www.karlstack.com/p/the-curious-case-of-claudine-gay

Posted by: Scottst at December 10, 2023 11:50 AM (RT+KD)

296 "Do you ever buy books just because of the cover?"
----------
Last time it wasn't the cover but the title....
Posted by: who knew at December 10, 2023 11:45 AM (4I7VG)

Does the Playboy compilation of their college girl spreads count?

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:50 AM (QBaJw)

297 Here's a passing thought: weapons murder people the same way crops enslave them.

Posted by: Yudhishthira Florian Maria Hohenzollern von Schloengishugen, Lichtensteinian Usurper at December 10, 2023 11:51 AM (0FoWg)

298 Don't bring a step stool to a ladder fight.

Posted by: I thought everybody knew that at December 10, 2023 11:51 AM (NBVIP)

299 LOTR must be THE Movie Girt for Christmas.

It always goes on sale right before Christmas at a nice discount.

You'd think the Book World would get in on some of that action by releasing a really nice, snazzy hardback bound set for Christmas as well.

But alas...

Posted by: naturalfake at December 10, 2023 11:51 AM (QzZeQ)

300 I think Princess Bride works because it is an absolutely perfect Fairy Tale, and it does this in a very tongue in cheek way. The familiar tropes in it are all classic Fairy Tale tropes, as are all the characters. It's a big well written and entertaining rewrite of all of the stories we've loved since we were young.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 10, 2023 11:52 AM (S6gqv)

301 Thoughts on difficult books - the less you know about a comlex subject, the harder the book will be to read and/or understand. Fluid mechancis and dynamic similitude, I'm on it. Jurisprudence in the 1880's relative to patent infringements, perhaps not so much. I think some information is hard or boring, because you just aren't into it, say perusing the Federal Register on a dark and stormy night. Others are interesting because they sing a lively tune whether they are deep or not. The former are what was once described as popcorn novels, goes down easy and not too nutritious for feeding philosophical thoughts. Dick Francis is a favorite of mine in this category. Love the books. The latter are difficult to digest but grow on you with each reading. Mine here are of course Tolkien and Joseph Conrad, especially Nostromo. I thought Gravity's Rainbow quite good, but read it decades ago. Scifi - Zelazny and recently Brandon Sanderson and Robert Jordan.

Posted by: Diana Pool at December 10, 2023 11:52 AM (0nnuA)

302
All this ballyhooing over "augur" v "auger", yet no one here dealt me any shit when I incorrectly referred to Luca Brazzi as "Luca Braggi" a day or two ago?

Who are you people?

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 10, 2023 11:52 AM (xG4kz)

303 I want a rideable, flaming, Pegasus pony as depicted on one of the book covers above,

for Christmas.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 10, 2023

***
The flaming and rideable parts may cause some problems.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 11:53 AM (omVj0)

304 Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:36 AM (QBaJw)

Never saw DWA. Is that the one with Classie Freddie Blassie?
Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 11:48 AM (Angsy)

Andre is Andre Gregory, who is/was famous for something or other, I don't remember.

It's just Shawn and Gregory, sitting and having dinner. It's been a long long time since I've seen it, but Gregory comes off as a pompous know it all, and Shawn is just a relatively smart guy, having dinner with a guy who thinks he's smarter than it is.

The film is very well done, and I think they accomplished what they were going for. Both guys are playing themselves, and I think they both do a decent job of improvising at being a version of themselves that was not necessarily meant to be taken seriously.

It's probably worth watching, but not if you're looking for action.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:54 AM (QBaJw)

305 Anyone who looks at what is happening in the world today and doesn't see a spiritual warfare component may not be paying close enough attention. Of course, as a Christian I would believe that. Your own beliefs may vary.

At this point I don't think it takes being especially devout to note there is something very diabolical going on, and there are forces of evil at work beyond the mere human proclivity toward fucking things up.

Posted by: It's an evil world we live in at December 10, 2023 11:54 AM (4tJWN)

306 The flaming and rideable parts may cause some problems.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 11:53 AM (omVj0)

Asbestos pants. But not assless chaps, for obvious reasons.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 10, 2023 11:54 AM (0p6ju)

307 Ballyhooing could lead to a hullabaloo.

Posted by: You've been warned at December 10, 2023 11:55 AM (NBVIP)

308 Here's a long read, but it tells the story of the hateful Harvard President. It's shocking.

https://www.karlstack.com/p/the-curious-case-of-claudine-gay
Posted by: Scottst at December 10, 2023 11:50 AM (RT+KD)

Oh, I doubt it would be shocking. What's shocking is why anyone would need to read past "President of Harvard."

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:56 AM (QBaJw)

309 Time to do some chores, all. Adios!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 10, 2023 11:57 AM (omVj0)

310 The literary God I worship is Cormac McCarthy. Suttree, the Border Trilogy and on and on. I read some of his passages and feel like a small child with playdoh trying to recreate the Pieta. An apt analogy as I once saw, as a child, Michelangelo's work and it was a consciousness shift, as are several art works that you look at and think "It was just a block of stone or a sheet of canvas and someone created THIS". Both humbling and inspiring at the same time. Tolkien - "The unimaginable hand of Feanor". Me - "The unimaginagle pen of McCarthy."

Posted by: Diana Pool at December 10, 2023 11:57 AM (0nnuA)

311 I am off to meet the day, too. Thank you, Perfesser, for the Book Thread.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 10, 2023 11:58 AM (0p6ju)

312 It's probably worth watching, but not if you're looking for action.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 11:54 AM (QBaJw)

I'd heard of it, but I always assumed it was about ATG, not some other guy.

I think the Freddie Blassie thing was a joke. Andy Kaufman did it.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 11:58 AM (Angsy)

313 Here's a passing thought: weapons murder people the same way crops enslave them.
Posted by: Yudhishthira Florian Maria Hohenzollern von Schloengishugen, Lichtensteinian Usurper at December 10, 2023 11:51 AM (0FoWg)

If you're saying we can't live without them, I can't eat my own hands.

Posted by: Ed Kemper at December 10, 2023 11:58 AM (QBaJw)

314
Don’t believe it’s difficult to read but I’ve never been able to get past the set up chapters in Lucifer’s Hammer.
Posted by: Drive By

That is an interesting, sprawling story that assembles a set of capable and resolute "normies" to band together to fight the forces of savagery and disintegration. The authors' bestowed mantle of normies clothed in radiant and wise resolve wore thin after a while.

It reminded me of the film "Independence Day" in many respects -- entertaining fluff best visited at long and infrequent intervals.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 10, 2023 11:59 AM (xG4kz)

315 >>>Apropos of nothing...

I want a rideable, flaming, Pegasus pony as depicted on one of the book covers above,

for Christmas.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 10, 2023 11:45 AM (QzZeQ)

I want the flaming harley from the movie Ghost Rider.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division

>My brother gave me a review of Avatar he had seen recently and he wasn't impressed at all by all of the dragon-riders.

All they do is ride dragons.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at December 10, 2023 11:59 AM (klzFH)

316 I'd heard of it, but I always assumed it was about ATG, not some other guy.

I think the Freddie Blassie thing was a joke. Andy Kaufman did it.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 11:58 AM (Angsy)

Hmmm, I know who Blassie is, not sure I am aware of something Kaufman did with him, as far as a parody? Or something?

Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 12:00 PM (QBaJw)

317 I want a rideable, flaming, Pegasus pony as depicted on one of the book covers above,

for Christmas.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 10, 2023
---
It's a pretty awesome scene in the book. The good guys blow up an entire city trying to destroy the villain. He just rides out of it on his flying hell-beast like it ain't no thang.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at December 10, 2023 12:00 PM (BpYfr)

318 Posted by: Diana Pool at December 10, 2023 11:57 AM (0nnuA)

Thanks for coming. Makes it more likely you're not a fake poster. I appreciate it, anyway.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 12:00 PM (Angsy)

319 WE HAZ A NOOD

Posted by: Skip at December 10, 2023 12:00 PM (fwDg9)

320 Here's another passing thought: Hereditary Prince Alois of Liechtenstein may be steward of his decrepit father's throne now, but we'll see how well this coddled nepot fares in the arena of power. Soon.

Posted by: Yudhishthira Florian Maria Hohenzollern von Schloengishugen, Liechtensteinian Usurper at December 10, 2023 12:01 PM (0FoWg)

321 If you're saying we can't live without them, I can't eat my own hands.
Posted by: Ed Kemper at December 10, 2023 11:58 AM (QBaJw)

By my edict, you can, and will.

Posted by: Yudhishthira Florian Maria Hohenzollern von Schloengishugen, Liechtensteinian Usurper at December 10, 2023 12:03 PM (0FoWg)

322 Hmmm, I know who Blassie is, not sure I am aware of something Kaufman did with him, as far as a parody? Or something?
Posted by: BurtTC at December 10, 2023 12:00 PM (QBaJw)

Yeah, a parody of MDWA, made by Andy Kaufman with CFB.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 12:03 PM (Angsy)

323 Posted by: Diana Pool at December 10, 2023 11:52 AM (0nnuA)

Thank you for commenting.

I really liked most of the Dick Francis mysteries. I was impressed that he created *entirely* new sleuths as well as the variety of ways he found to tie horse racing into each story. Because of one of his last books, before his son took over, I always make sure to cook my dried beans *very* thoroughly and never use kidney beans.

P.S. this being the Horde, the pudding thing is *less* reputable than a Pink Floyd reference. Ace, in his persona of an ewok, would joke about "tea-bagging" a pudding cup in celebration of a hoped for electoral victory.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 10, 2023 12:04 PM (nC+QA)

324 Well, it's the saddest part of Sunday morning, again. The end of the Book Thread. Thanks, Perfessor.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 12:07 PM (Angsy)

325 Difficult to read? Well, lately my read-while-having-breakfast book is 'Rob Roy'. This is an exception, as I usually read non-fiction while sipping orange juice and enjoying my Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs. But, at the moment I do have have any non-fiction of interest on hand, and Rob Roy has been lying around for a ouple of years.

I've read Sir Walter Scott in the past, 'Ivanhoe' only a few years ago. We shall see if I get around to the Waverly Novels.

At any rate, no small portion of 'Rob Roy' is conveyed in Scot dialect, sort of phonetically. Therein lies the 'difficult' part. It isn't quite as though one is trying to read an unfamiliar foreign language, but very nearly so. It generally takes me 2-3 passes to extract the essence of those passages.

I recall being a bit shocked when reading 'Tristram Shandy' to find passages in Greek. It was even more disturbing to ponder the fact that readers of the day *could* actually read it, and I could not. So much for my education.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 10, 2023 12:10 PM (XeU6L)

326 And finally, as to rolling in filthy lucre, yes, that is the only reason I write here. Some day soon I'll even be able to afford to buy a single copy of my books off of Amazon at the rate I am accumulating wealth. Maybe even have it autographed by the Author. "To My Dearest and Most Highly Regarded Reader - Diana".
But on a more serious note, I have been giving thought to the process that goes into selecting one particular book to read and/or purchase from the tens of thousands. Obviously the PHTB (Publishing Houses That Be) provide offerings based on how much lucre can be made and, sadly, how well they align with their particular institutional biases. Many other organizations are like this. "Insert book clubs and reviewers names here" This link will have their own biases, which just happen to align with my own.
Perhaps an organized, easily accesible and growing list, maybe with blurbs, by genre, of Imbecilities and possibly of Imbecile aligned interests. Just a thought in progress. If PHTB sell to an audience, might we create our own smaller more easliy perused organized offerings to POIA (People of Imbecile Alignments)? Perhaps providing a foothold to new writers.

Posted by: Diana Pool at December 10, 2023 12:14 PM (0nnuA)

327 At any rate, no small portion of 'Rob Roy' is conveyed in Scot dialect, sort of phonetically. Therein lies the 'difficult' part. It isn't quite as though one is trying to read an unfamiliar foreign language, but very nearly so. It generally takes me 2-3 passes to extract the essence of those passages.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 10, 2023 12:10 PM (XeU6L)

Wonder if it would help to read that part out loud. Might make sense when you hear it.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 12:15 PM (Angsy)

328 @105 --

I contend that the simplest-sounding instructions prove to be the most difficult to carry out.

Exhibit A: "Adjust to fit."

Posted by: Weak Geek at December 10, 2023 12:15 PM (ZXaJa)

329 I thought Gravity's Rainbow quite good, but read it decades ago. Scifi - Zelazny and recently Brandon Sanderson and Robert Jordan.
Posted by: Diana Pool at December 10, 2023 11:52 AM (0nnuA)

*fistbump to fellow enjoyer of "Gravity's Rainbow".

Posted by: naturalfake at December 10, 2023 12:18 PM (QzZeQ)

330 Perhaps an organized, easily accesible and growing list, maybe with blurbs, by genre, of Imbecilities and possibly of Imbecile aligned interests. Just a thought in progress. If PHTB sell to an audience, might we create our own smaller more easliy perused organized offerings to POIA (People of Imbecile Alignments)? Perhaps providing a foothold to new writers.
Posted by: Diana Pool at December 10, 2023 12:14 PM (0nnuA)

D, Perfessor already has a link to Moron books and recommended ones.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at December 10, 2023 12:18 PM (Angsy)

331 Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 10, 2023 12:04 PM
Thanks, um, I think.

Also a very good different read recently acquired - The 7 1/2 Deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle by Stuart Turton. Good book = sad to see the last page.

Posted by: Diana Pool at December 10, 2023 12:22 PM (0nnuA)

332 The end result of keeping the Palestinian Authority weak in Gaza was the growth of Hamas.
Killing 6000 children in Gaza will ensure another generation of hate for Israel. For whom is that desireable?

Posted by: Paul at December 10, 2023 12:27 PM (ozdUV)

333
I contend that the simplest-sounding instructions prove to be the most difficult to carry out.

Exhibit A: "Adjust to fit."
Posted by: Weak Geek
--------

I recall a third-party service manual's instructions for removing the engine from my CB 750 Honda. 'Loosen engine mount bolts, remove engine'.

Yeah, right...

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 10, 2023 12:28 PM (XeU6L)

334 I absolutely love the pitch by Diana Pool. Absolutely the very best of luck.

Posted by: Hunter's Pegging Hooker at December 10, 2023 12:34 PM (Q7KYg)

335 7 ... I'm irritated. Wife got me two books from a Moron author for Christmas and wouldn't let me read them before she wraped them up...

Posted by: Reforger at December 10, 2023 09:03 AM (tZHZg)

Your wife is awesome. You may know whodunnit, but she's still managing to maintain the suspense!

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at December 10, 2023 01:13 PM (qPw5n)

336 252 ... "When the ring was destroyed, the Nazgul fell flaming from the sky, withered and went out.
I'm 73 and have read LOTR yearly since I was 18."

Exactly right, including the quote about Rohan looking to their horses. The 8 surviving winged Nazgul at the final battle were caught in the destruction of Mt. Doom.

Like you, I'm now 70 and have been rereading LOTR annually since I was twelve. A tradition that continues to enrich me.

Posted by: JTB at December 10, 2023 01:23 PM (7EjX1)

337 I finally made it all the way through some books this week! The Great Divorce, by C. S. Lewis. Perfect for today (and everyday). Radical Chic & May-Mauing the Flak Catchers, by Tom Wolfe. Ditto about today (and everyday-and very funny, too). I just started Killers of the Flower Moon- I'm only to page 20 but so far, it's
interesting and well written.

Posted by: LASue at December 10, 2023 01:57 PM (cwKYF)

338 I prefer the instruction: "adjust to fit or syncope"

Posted by: Kindltot at December 10, 2023 01:57 PM (D7oie)

339 ...
Posted by: Paul at December 10, 2023 12:27 PM (ozdUV)

This is the ... Book Thread. Why don't you tell us about an interesting book you've actually read, dip$h!t.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at December 10, 2023 02:15 PM (pJWtt)

340 @339 --

Assumes fact not in evidence.

Posted by: Weak Geek at December 10, 2023 02:52 PM (R0Hvq)

341 Re Book covers. many years ago i was at a book signing for Alan Dean Foster. He held up one of his books saying, lovely cover, beautiful girl, manly hero, exploding airplane, and has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the story! But I love it! probably sold many extra copies by itself and thats what covers are supposed to do.

Posted by: Gorf at December 10, 2023 05:47 PM (+Jpyf)

342 fantastic submit, very informative. I ponder why the other experts of
this sector don't notice this. You should proceed
your writing. I am sure, you have a huge readers' base already!

Posted by: idn slot at December 11, 2023 03:02 AM (JzzT2)

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