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A View Of The War In Gaza [Diogenes]
Israel’s War and Tactics
The typical Hamas fighter is reasonably educated (probably to a 10th grade level in US standards) and trained in basic infantry tactics. He primarily comes from the camps in Gaza and/or the West Bank and has been taught since day one to hate Jews. Equipment includes a rifle, probably an AK-47 or modified variant, squad level machineguns (PKM) some heavier MGs up to 50cal, the ubiquitous RPG, mortars, and drones. They fight as a basic army unit, with squads, platoon and companies. These fighters are probably just a bit more professional, more disciplined than their predecessors. By that I mean historically it was not unusual for Muslims to attack, take an objective, and then stop to ransack the objective. We saw some of this on 10/7 but I sense it was limited. Probably not much of that in Gaza today. Today, Hamas is no longer a mob of irregulars but a hybrid force similar to any that can be fielded by any state actor. Israeli soldiers are well educated and come from across the Israeli social spectrum. Their equipment is modern, reliable, effective and adapted to fit their particular tactical and operational environment. The troops are members of squads, platoons, companies and battalions, all belonging to brigades except those separate battalions within an Israeli division. There are roughly 11 Brigade sized units surrounding the Gaza strip and each is reinforced with artillery and close air support.Wars are different. Clausewitz observed, the fundamental nature of war may be unchanging, but the character of individual wars “vary with the nature of their motives and of the situations which give rise to them.”
Today’s fight for the IDF is a lot like their last event in 2014, but different too. I have said several times this fight is a blend (hybrid) of urban assault and siege. A key component here is the subterranean operations that the IDF faces. We last experienced this with the tunnels in Viet Nam, think Cu Chi, which was a form of battle we never really controlled. Further, look up. Drones have taken on a life of their own and are used heavily by both sides. Counter Drone procedures are still evolving. Hamas leadership claimed in a Reuters interview that they have 40,000 trained fighters, and they were trained, armed, and funded by Iran. Because Hamas said it, it is probably not accurate, but even half that number is a credible fighting force. Plus, Hamas is on the defense, which historically enjoys a 3:1 advantage over the attacker, a figure that has remained remarkably constant over the centuries. Israel has many more in its active and reserve forces, not to mention the callup of over 150,000 from all over the world. As mentioned by Clausewitz above, wars vary. In 2014, Israel’s Operation Protective Edge resulted in several Lessons Learned. They are: precision fires are limited in their effects (both artillery and air support); armor protection technologies needed improvement (urban environments are not friendly to vehicles, particularly armored ones); Counter Tunnel (Subterranean) Operations are critical; and, Iron Dome is important. What has changed since 2014 First, Precision fire in an urban setting. The nature and brutality of the Hamas attack, plus Netanyahu’s declaration of war has changed the importance of this as the goal. Previously the IDF sought to limit civilian casualties. Today, the IDF still seeks to do this, but casualties no longer has a veto effect on many specific clashes with Hamas. Further, IDF intelligence collection is better than ever and makes precision targeting better. Armor protection has been improved. According to one source, only 6 Israeli tanks have been destroyed so far. A remarkable feat given the terrain in which they are fighting and the proliferation of the RPG. Next, counter tunnel operations are far more sophisticated now than in 2014. The IDF has created a unique engineer battalion devoted to just this kind of fighting. Subterranean warfare is a weird, disorienting, and scary thing. They have become experts at it. Plus, given precision attack mentioned above, the accurate application of bunker busting bombs makes this kind of effort problematic for Hamas. Volunteers will be harder to get in the future. The Iron Dome is an interesting assessment. Its effectiveness is nothing short of spectacular. In fact, prior to 10/7, The Dome’s ability to limit Israeli casualties was one of the restraints put on Israeli leadership in the face of previous rocket attacks. How can you justify a massive bombardment when sure, they launched a hundred rockets, but only two Israelis died? On 10/7 we saw that thousands of rockets launched at the Dome can overwhelm it. Ironically, this worked to Israel’s advantage. There were casualties, significant ones, and the gloves came off. Interestingly, the rockets persist. Hamas has shown incredible logistics foresight in their rocket war. It’s hard to hide that much, but they have done so. Other considerations are available to Israel. For one, time is on their side…for now and into the next several months. Netanyahu’s biggest detractor is Biden and his administration, and he can keep them at bay. For now. Biden is weak and he is surrounded with advisors all singing the same tune. He gets no different opinion that should allow leaders to come to a more comprehensive plan. Bibi can work with that. This, in my opinion, includes the media. He is in position to use global media to the detriment of American networks who will have to at least show some impartiality in their coverage. But this time window isn’t indefinite. He needs to use this time wisely. And I suspect he will. PW’s I doubt the IDF are taking many prisoners of war, but they do need them for intelligence collection and to assess the general state of their opponents. Are they hungry, thirsty, dirty, tired, hopeless, still well armed, etc? But as the fight continues, more and more will seek to surrender, particularly if they get shot by their leaders if they try to retreat into southern Gaza. Time will tell, but PWs in the thousands are not an impossibility. The IDF will need to plan for that. This planning also applies to the refugees. The IDF has opened a road south for refugees to flee the affected areas and the IDF continues to encourage civilians to leave. Strategically, the Israeli government is already working on concepts for “The Day After Hamas.” Interesting title. One report said the Egyptians are working with them. Tactical Situation Gaza has been split at the Wadi south of Gaza City. IDF troops are now pressuring Hamas on all sides while trying to evacuate as many refugees as they can. Their fighting has been up close and personal. They advance, attack a specific objective, dig in, gather intel (which leads to other objectives) and bring up armor. The armor is bermed for protection, and they provide covering fire. Then the infantry and engineers advance to the next objective. In Gaza and the urban areas, objectives are measured in hundreds of meters. Seldom further. They fight day and night. The primary objective on the IDF has been to split Gaza, isolate Gaza City, and find and kill the Hamas leadership, and destroy the tunnels. Now they begin to squeeze. Taking their time, Hamas will go hungry, thirsty, run short of munitions, and grow miserable in the constant bombing. I suspect it will take them at least a month to finish in the north. The South is a different battle. Refugees, retreating fighters, Hamas leadership trying to escape, and Egyptians, all muddled together. This is where it will get ugly. This is where, in my opinion, that Israel must drive for absolute victory. The primary obstacle will be how heavily has Hamas prepared the south? If like the north, then look for a longer fight. If not as much, Israel will make faster gains. We shall see soon enough. ["Diogenes" has multiple graduate degrees with a focus on the Middle East, and an Army Intelligence Officer graduate of both the Army and USMC Command and Staff Colleges.]Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
Good afternoon everyone
Posted by: Skip at November 12, 2023 12:00 PM (fwDg9)
2
Whoa, Dio!
Posted by: It's Happening at November 12, 2023 12:04 PM (yUu6q)
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at November 12, 2023 12:04 PM (R/m4+)
4
First?
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at November 12, 2023 12:04 PM (vHIgi)
5
I'm curious what you think about the possible expansion of this to a more general war, involving not just Iran but also Turkey and who knows who else.
Is that a race against time? Is the goal to get this done before it expands, and what are the dangers of slowing down, rather than speeding up?
Is that a race against time? Is the goal to get this done before it expands, and what are the dangers of slowing down, rather than speeding up?
Posted by: BurtTC at November 12, 2023 12:05 PM (QBaJw)
6
g'early afternoon, 'rons
g'early afternoon, 'rons
Posted by: AltonJackson at November 12, 2023 12:05 PM (ENBF0)
7
I was looking forward to this essay !
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:06 PM (V13WU)
8
I'm curious what you think about the possible expansion of this to a more general war, involving not just Iran but also Turkey and who knows who else.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 12, 2023 12:05 PM (QBaJw)
Force projection...where would they fight? How would they get there?
Posted by: BurtTC at November 12, 2023 12:05 PM (QBaJw)
Force projection...where would they fight? How would they get there?
Posted by: BignJames at November 12, 2023 12:08 PM (AwYPR)
9
אשירה לאדוני
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at November 12, 2023 12:08 PM (vHIgi)
10
And while we were sleeping, "Israel has signed a deal to sell the David's Sling anti-missile system to Finland". Interesting , no.
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:08 PM (V13WU)
11
Absolutely fantastic analysis of the current situation. OUTSTANDING.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 12:08 PM (PQ4m2)
12
no ?
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:08 PM (V13WU)
13
Have we no compassion?
Far-Left Dems "Horrified" by Republican Plans to Stop Palestinian Refugees Coming to U.S.
Far-Left Dems "Horrified" by Republican Plans to Stop Palestinian Refugees Coming to U.S.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:09 PM (FVME7)
14
It actually amazes me the Iron Dome works as well as it does appear.
On other hand suspect Hamas and other rockets are really tossing explosives without much direction, that many hit their territory shows that. So unguided it has a chance at hitting a open field as a building 1/100 of that field.
On other hand suspect Hamas and other rockets are really tossing explosives without much direction, that many hit their territory shows that. So unguided it has a chance at hitting a open field as a building 1/100 of that field.
Posted by: Skip at November 12, 2023 12:10 PM (fwDg9)
15
Very interesting.
If I was teaching a course on Middle East current events, this would definitely be in the assigned readings.
If I was teaching a course on Middle East current events, this would definitely be in the assigned readings.
Posted by: Dr. T at November 12, 2023 12:12 PM (m9hmt)
16
Looking around at stories this morning, what jumps out at me is that as Israel's military victory becomes more and more obvious, the Left worldwide is becoming more and more furious about it.
"The world hates a Jew who hits back. The world loves us only when we are to be pitied. If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we'd rather be alive and have the bad image."
- Golda Meir
"The world hates a Jew who hits back. The world loves us only when we are to be pitied. If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we'd rather be alive and have the bad image."
- Golda Meir
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:13 PM (S6gqv)
17
Absolutely fantastic analysis of the current situation. OUTSTANDING.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 12:08 PM (PQ4m2)
Agreed. And the observation that it is going to get tougher when the IDF moves south makes perfect sense.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 12:08 PM (PQ4m2)
Agreed. And the observation that it is going to get tougher when the IDF moves south makes perfect sense.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 12, 2023 12:13 PM (3Gtis)
18
Bill Maher Says Political Parties Have Switched and the Elitists Are Dems
-
Well, the Donks are the tranny party so I guess they have switched.
-
Well, the Donks are the tranny party so I guess they have switched.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:13 PM (FVME7)
19
Well written sir. Israel's main worry is being stabbed in the back by America (ubama/bai-din). Prayers to Jehovah are in order.
Posted by: Eromero at November 12, 2023 12:13 PM (NxC5+)
20
Force projection...where would they fight? How would they get there?
Posted by: BignJames at November 12, 2023 12:08 PM (AwYPR)
I don't know, but I assume the people who are planning such things have thought about it, and have answers.
Posted by: BignJames at November 12, 2023 12:08 PM (AwYPR)
I don't know, but I assume the people who are planning such things have thought about it, and have answers.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 12, 2023 12:13 PM (QBaJw)
21
Palestinians left in the country might as well let any opposition army in.
Convinced the government knows that, f not their idiots.
Convinced the government knows that, f not their idiots.
Posted by: Skip at November 12, 2023 12:14 PM (fwDg9)
22
I read a commentary that covers the current approach to Gaza ground offensive, "Combined warfare".
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:14 PM (V13WU)
23
Thank you, Diogenes
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at November 12, 2023 12:15 PM (vHIgi)
24
Wow! Thanks!
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:15 PM (aWeTk)
25
Keep an eye on Turkey, our ostensible NATO ally.
If they decide to get froggy, it's a new game.
If they decide to get froggy, it's a new game.
Posted by: gourmand du jour at November 12, 2023 12:15 PM (MeG8a)
26
Far-Left Dems "Horrified" by Republican Plans to Stop Palestinian Refugees Coming to U.S.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:09 PM (FVME7)
oh no how terrible
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:09 PM (FVME7)
oh no how terrible
Posted by: Dr. T at November 12, 2023 12:15 PM (m9hmt)
Posted by: Wenda at November 12, 2023 12:15 PM (Tji/p)
28
Looking around at stories this morning, what jumps out at me is that as Israel's military victory becomes more and more obvious, the Left worldwide is becoming more and more furious about it.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:13 PM (S6gqv)
----
The Left epitomizes the "sore loser." They simply CANNOT abide defeat on their side, for any reason. There's no, "Jolly good sport, old fellow. We'll get you next time!"
No, they must go for the throat every time they lose.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:13 PM (S6gqv)
----
The Left epitomizes the "sore loser." They simply CANNOT abide defeat on their side, for any reason. There's no, "Jolly good sport, old fellow. We'll get you next time!"
No, they must go for the throat every time they lose.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at November 12, 2023 12:16 PM (BpYfr)
29
"Diogenes" has multiple graduate degrees with a focus on the Middle East, and an Army Intelligence Officer graduate of both the Army and USMC Command and Staff Colleges.
Big whoop. I watched a YouTube video last night and I am master of my keyboard.
Big whoop. I watched a YouTube video last night and I am master of my keyboard.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:17 PM (I/Qkd)
30
Party for Socialism and Liberation
@pslnational
BREAKING: Thousands marching on Biden’s personal home in Delaware to demand a ceasefire now!
-
Biden's America.
@pslnational
BREAKING: Thousands marching on Biden’s personal home in Delaware to demand a ceasefire now!
-
Biden's America.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:17 PM (FVME7)
31
13 Have we no compassion?
Far-Left Dems "Horrified" by Republican Plans to Stop Palestinian Refugees Coming to U.S.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:09 PM (FVME7)
As long as they shipped them ONLY to Boston, NYC, Chicago, and San Fran, I'd be fine with it.
Far-Left Dems "Horrified" by Republican Plans to Stop Palestinian Refugees Coming to U.S.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:09 PM (FVME7)
As long as they shipped them ONLY to Boston, NYC, Chicago, and San Fran, I'd be fine with it.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:17 PM (S6gqv)
32
Good read. The IDF has a lot on its plate.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at November 12, 2023 12:18 PM (Q4IgG)
33
>>>Today, Hamas is no longer a mob of irregulars but a hybrid force similar to any that can be fielded by any state actor.
This is probably naive of me, but: The guys who parachuted into a youth festival and the guys who slaughtered kibbutz families in their homes don't seem "regular" to me; they don't seem disciplined; they seem like savages. I wouldn't expect them to survive intact as a military force.
This is probably naive of me, but: The guys who parachuted into a youth festival and the guys who slaughtered kibbutz families in their homes don't seem "regular" to me; they don't seem disciplined; they seem like savages. I wouldn't expect them to survive intact as a military force.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:18 PM (aWeTk)
34
30 Party for Socialism and Liberation
@pslnational
BREAKING: Thousands marching on Biden’s personal home in Delaware to demand a ceasefire now!
-
Biden's America.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:17 PM (FVME7)
This is hilarious - the Dem party nurtured and raised this monster, and are shocked that it's gotten off its leash.
@pslnational
BREAKING: Thousands marching on Biden’s personal home in Delaware to demand a ceasefire now!
-
Biden's America.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:17 PM (FVME7)
This is hilarious - the Dem party nurtured and raised this monster, and are shocked that it's gotten off its leash.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:18 PM (S6gqv)
35
This is probably naive of me, but: The guys who parachuted into a youth festival and the guys who slaughtered kibbutz families in their homes don't seem "regular" to me; they don't seem disciplined; they seem like savages. I wouldn't expect them to survive intact as a military force.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:18 PM (aWeTk)
Their performance inside Gaza has been very poor. They have been good at jumping out of holes and staging ambush attacks, but they've shown no capability of staging any kind of organized counterattacks.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:18 PM (aWeTk)
Their performance inside Gaza has been very poor. They have been good at jumping out of holes and staging ambush attacks, but they've shown no capability of staging any kind of organized counterattacks.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:21 PM (S6gqv)
36
Strategically, the Israeli government is already working on concepts for “The Day After Hamas.”
I was ruminating on this. Many Hamas "fighters" will try to blend in to the refugees, and when the IDF goes home, or at least shuts down the most intense operations, will return to their homes and start up again.
I'd like to see something like the exploding devices they had in the first Kingsmen movie. The Israelis can let the young males go, but only if they agree to an implanted device that can be triggered by the IDF. If Hamas starts creating problems again, BOOM!
I was ruminating on this. Many Hamas "fighters" will try to blend in to the refugees, and when the IDF goes home, or at least shuts down the most intense operations, will return to their homes and start up again.
I'd like to see something like the exploding devices they had in the first Kingsmen movie. The Israelis can let the young males go, but only if they agree to an implanted device that can be triggered by the IDF. If Hamas starts creating problems again, BOOM!
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:21 PM (I/Qkd)
37
that "combined warfare" approach is slower and more methodical, very deliberate. as an example , the article gives this as an example of "combined warfare" : " this implies that a Hamas squad ready to launch an anti-tank missile will be detected even before they can fire, and neutralized by an aerial missile before they can retreat to safety."
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:21 PM (V13WU)
38
13 Have we no compassion?
Far-Left Dems "Horrified" by Republican Plans to Stop Palestinian Refugees Coming to U.S.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:09 PM (FVME7)
They need to go to a neutral country. The US is NOT a neutral country.
Far-Left Dems "Horrified" by Republican Plans to Stop Palestinian Refugees Coming to U.S.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:09 PM (FVME7)
They need to go to a neutral country. The US is NOT a neutral country.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:22 PM (aWeTk)
39
This is hilarious - the Dem party nurtured and raised this monster, and are shocked that it's gotten off its leash.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:18 PM (S6gqv)
—————
I fucking told you!
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:18 PM (S6gqv)
—————
I fucking told you!
Posted by: Mary Shelley at November 12, 2023 12:22 PM (u73oe)
40
the day after should include public hanging of all captured hamas operatives
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:22 PM (V13WU)
41
As long as they shipped them ONLY to Boston, NYC, Chicago, and San Fran, I'd be fine with it.
As if they'd stay there. You'd have to build walls around those cities to keep them in.
I'm not saying no....
As if they'd stay there. You'd have to build walls around those cities to keep them in.
I'm not saying no....
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:22 PM (I/Qkd)
42
This is probably naive of me, but: The guys who parachuted into a youth festival and the guys who slaughtered kibbutz families in their homes don't seem "regular" to me; they don't seem disciplined; they seem like savages. I wouldn't expect them to survive intact as a military force.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:18 PM (aWeTk)
I would compare them to the "Hilfswillige" auxiliaries to the Germans on the WWII Eastern Front, or the Yugoslav militias on both sides in the same conflict. Savage, and not always characterized by what we would call military discipline; but given firm oversight and some logistical preparation, they can hold together over the short- and medium-term.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:18 PM (aWeTk)
I would compare them to the "Hilfswillige" auxiliaries to the Germans on the WWII Eastern Front, or the Yugoslav militias on both sides in the same conflict. Savage, and not always characterized by what we would call military discipline; but given firm oversight and some logistical preparation, they can hold together over the short- and medium-term.
Posted by: Dr. T at November 12, 2023 12:23 PM (m9hmt)
43
No more Mr. Nice Guy.
NBC News
@NBCNews
President Biden is shifting more into campaign mode, with plans to increasingly attack his likely 2024 Republican opponent, former President Trump, according to five people familiar with the matter.
NBC News
@NBCNews
President Biden is shifting more into campaign mode, with plans to increasingly attack his likely 2024 Republican opponent, former President Trump, according to five people familiar with the matter.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:24 PM (FVME7)
44
President Biden is shifting more into campaign mode, with plans to increasingly attack his likely 2024 Republican opponent, former President Trump, according to five people familiar with the matter.
It's amusing that Biden thinks he'll be the candidate.
It's amusing that Biden thinks he'll be the candidate.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:24 PM (I/Qkd)
45
disorganized, savage and undisciplined is a feature not a bug of arab armies
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:24 PM (V13WU)
46
34 30 Party for Socialism and Liberation
@pslnational
BREAKING: Thousands marching on Biden’s personal home in Delaware to demand a ceasefire now!
-
Biden's America.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:17 PM (FVME7)
This is hilarious - the Dem party nurtured and raised this monster, and are shocked that it's gotten off its leash.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:18 PM
One word. Op.
@pslnational
BREAKING: Thousands marching on Biden’s personal home in Delaware to demand a ceasefire now!
-
Biden's America.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:17 PM (FVME7)
This is hilarious - the Dem party nurtured and raised this monster, and are shocked that it's gotten off its leash.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:18 PM
One word. Op.
Posted by: Eromero at November 12, 2023 12:24 PM (NxC5+)
47
The missiles in S Lebanon, thousands of them are not so primavative. They could devastate the civilians if Iron Dome inventories (when?) get depleted. Israel better be ready for a serious smack down of these if they come into play.
Something new will happen to change things. It is the way of War.
Something new will happen to change things. It is the way of War.
Posted by: pawn at November 12, 2023 12:25 PM (QB+5g)
48
THIS is what I expect from a smart military blog. Well done!
Posted by: NaughtyPine at November 12, 2023 12:25 PM (fxCK2)
49
Bill Maher Says Political Parties Have Switched and the Elitists Are Dems
They always were. Any other perception was pure PR, aka bullsh*t.
They always were. Any other perception was pure PR, aka bullsh*t.
Posted by: Oddbob at November 12, 2023 12:26 PM (nfrXX)
50
Pro Israeli backers should March on Sundowner's house in Delaware saying he has blood on his hands giving Iran funds
Posted by: Skip at November 12, 2023 12:26 PM (fwDg9)
51
As if they'd stay there. You'd have to build walls around those cities to keep them in.
I'm not saying no....
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:22 PM (I/Qkd)
Yeah, but then you'd have to deny the inhabitants all voting rights, probably detach them from their respective states, treat them as territories....
Wait, why are we NOT doing this??
I'm not saying no....
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:22 PM (I/Qkd)
Yeah, but then you'd have to deny the inhabitants all voting rights, probably detach them from their respective states, treat them as territories....
Wait, why are we NOT doing this??
Posted by: Dr. T at November 12, 2023 12:26 PM (m9hmt)
52
They need to go to a neutral country. The US is NOT a neutral country.
Posted by: m
Mars is a neutral country.
Posted by: m
Mars is a neutral country.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:27 PM (FVME7)
53
The missiles in S Lebanon, thousands of them are not so primavative. They could devastate the civilians if Iron Dome inventories (when?) get depleted. Israel better be ready for a serious smack down of these if they come into play.
Something new will happen to change things. It is the way of War.
Posted by: pawn at November 12, 2023 12:25 PM (QB+5g)
I'm sure Israel has a little surprise in their weapons arsenal that will be used as a last resort. FAFO.
Something new will happen to change things. It is the way of War.
Posted by: pawn at November 12, 2023 12:25 PM (QB+5g)
I'm sure Israel has a little surprise in their weapons arsenal that will be used as a last resort. FAFO.
Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy now with twice the crazy at November 12, 2023 12:29 PM (h4nev)
54
>>>IDF intelligence collection is better than ever
I hope so! But I don't see how we would know that.
I hope so! But I don't see how we would know that.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:30 PM (aWeTk)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 12, 2023 12:30 PM (XeU6L)
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at November 12, 2023 12:31 PM (R/m4+)
57
I'm curious what you think about the possible expansion of this to a more general war, involving not just Iran but also Turkey and who knows who else.
Is that a race against time? Is the goal to get this done before it expands, and what are the dangers of slowing down, rather than speeding up?
Posted by: BurtTC at November 12, 2023 12:05 PM (QBaJw)
***
Good question.
I sense that time is increasingly on Israel's side. The world and lefties can bitch all they want, but Israel is clearly doing all they can to prevent civilian casualties, so they can keep up the pressure. I don't see the war expanding unless an outsider steps in. Israel has a specific objective, the elimination of Hamas. And the support Hamas was expecting hasn't really happened. Also, there is plenty of time after to deal with the outsiders that have been picking at them.
Is that a race against time? Is the goal to get this done before it expands, and what are the dangers of slowing down, rather than speeding up?
Posted by: BurtTC at November 12, 2023 12:05 PM (QBaJw)
***
Good question.
I sense that time is increasingly on Israel's side. The world and lefties can bitch all they want, but Israel is clearly doing all they can to prevent civilian casualties, so they can keep up the pressure. I don't see the war expanding unless an outsider steps in. Israel has a specific objective, the elimination of Hamas. And the support Hamas was expecting hasn't really happened. Also, there is plenty of time after to deal with the outsiders that have been picking at them.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 12:31 PM (uSHSS)
58
41 As long as they shipped them ONLY to Boston, NYC, Chicago, and San Fran, I'd be fine with it.
As if they'd stay there. You'd have to build walls around those cities to keep them in.
I'm not saying no....
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:22 PM (I/Qkd)
Yes! Build those walls!
As if they'd stay there. You'd have to build walls around those cities to keep them in.
I'm not saying no....
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:22 PM (I/Qkd)
Yes! Build those walls!
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:31 PM (aWeTk)
59
I'm sure Israel has a little surprise in their weapons arsenal that will be used as a last resort. FAFO.
Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy now with twice the crazy at November 12, 2023 12:29 PM (h4nev)
Checks winds aloft, sets dial-a-yield...
Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy now with twice the crazy at November 12, 2023 12:29 PM (h4nev)
Checks winds aloft, sets dial-a-yield...
Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at November 12, 2023 12:31 PM (/HDaX)
60
Gotta run off, but not before thanking Diogenes for a well written post.
Posted by: gourmand du jour at November 12, 2023 12:32 PM (MeG8a)
61
42 I would compare them to the "Hilfswillige" auxiliaries to the Germans on the WWII Eastern Front, or the Yugoslav militias on both sides in the same conflict. Savage, and not always characterized by what we would call military discipline; but given firm oversight and some logistical preparation, they can hold together over the short- and medium-term.
Posted by: Dr. T at November 12, 2023 12:23 PM (m9hmt)
Were those WW II auxiliaries essentially cannon fodder?
Posted by: Dr. T at November 12, 2023 12:23 PM (m9hmt)
Were those WW II auxiliaries essentially cannon fodder?
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:33 PM (aWeTk)
62
Checks winds aloft, sets dial-a-yield...
Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at November 12, 2023 12:31 PM (/HDaX)
Well, they DO have that cool Weather Machine Thingy™.
Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at November 12, 2023 12:31 PM (/HDaX)
Well, they DO have that cool Weather Machine Thingy™.
Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy now with twice the crazy at November 12, 2023 12:33 PM (h4nev)
63
20 Force projection...where would they fight? How would they get there?
Posted by: BignJames at November 12, 2023 12:08 PM (AwYPR)
I don't know, but I assume the people who are planning such things have thought about it, and have answers.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 12, 2023 12:13 PM (QBaJw)
Gaza is finished - the Israeli's have even shut off all access to the sea. From what I'm reading, I gather that they are not concerned about Southern Gaza much at all, so they must believe they've got all of the on the ground leadership holed up in the northern half. They've also hinted that they've got a lot of Palestinians cooperating with them in the South.
How this war could expand - Israel is pulling back on its air operations in Gaza, as ground troops take over, and shifting them to the border with Hezbollah. And yesterday Israel's defense minister issued a statement which pretty much dared Hezbollah to try and start something. It sounded like he was itching to turn the entire army north.
Posted by: BignJames at November 12, 2023 12:08 PM (AwYPR)
I don't know, but I assume the people who are planning such things have thought about it, and have answers.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 12, 2023 12:13 PM (QBaJw)
Gaza is finished - the Israeli's have even shut off all access to the sea. From what I'm reading, I gather that they are not concerned about Southern Gaza much at all, so they must believe they've got all of the on the ground leadership holed up in the northern half. They've also hinted that they've got a lot of Palestinians cooperating with them in the South.
How this war could expand - Israel is pulling back on its air operations in Gaza, as ground troops take over, and shifting them to the border with Hezbollah. And yesterday Israel's defense minister issued a statement which pretty much dared Hezbollah to try and start something. It sounded like he was itching to turn the entire army north.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:34 PM (S6gqv)
64
There are only 2 ways to win a war... you must either take away the enemies ability to fight, or their will to fight.
Examples? WW2 Germany, we invaded and took away their ability to fight... WW2 Japan, we nuked them and took their WILL to fight.
Against Palis, you can never take away their ability to fight, without total invasion and occupation, because they have too much support from outside the war zone. Iran will always support them with arms and money.
So, you must take their will to fight... and sadly, as they are (IMO) indoctrinated to the point of insanity... you will only do this by expelling them from Palestine and force the Moslem world to assimilate them.
Examples? WW2 Germany, we invaded and took away their ability to fight... WW2 Japan, we nuked them and took their WILL to fight.
Against Palis, you can never take away their ability to fight, without total invasion and occupation, because they have too much support from outside the war zone. Iran will always support them with arms and money.
So, you must take their will to fight... and sadly, as they are (IMO) indoctrinated to the point of insanity... you will only do this by expelling them from Palestine and force the Moslem world to assimilate them.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 12:34 PM (xaFKb)
65
President Biden is shifting more into campaign mode, with plans to increasingly attack his likely 2024 Republican opponent, former President Trump, according to five people familiar with the matter.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:24 PM (FVME7)
That's fine and dandy, but this time biden actually has a documented record of abject failure to defend, so he can attack Trump all he wants, I do not think that will fly this time
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:24 PM (FVME7)
That's fine and dandy, but this time biden actually has a documented record of abject failure to defend, so he can attack Trump all he wants, I do not think that will fly this time
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 12:34 PM (PQ4m2)
66
I wonder if assembling tanks on the Lebanese border will send a quality message to Hezbollah. Israel war cabinet already said that what they are doing in Gaza, they will know how to do in Beirut.
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:35 PM (V13WU)
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:35 PM (FVME7)
68
"Masters of the Air" of the 100TH Bomb Group screening in January!
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:36 PM (aWeTk)
69
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:34 PM (S6gqv)
Most don't know this, but by treaty obligation we have 500 US Troops in the Sanai, essentially watching the Egypt / Israel / Gaza borders...
Wonder what the heck THEY are up to?
Most don't know this, but by treaty obligation we have 500 US Troops in the Sanai, essentially watching the Egypt / Israel / Gaza borders...
Wonder what the heck THEY are up to?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 12:36 PM (xaFKb)
70
Drones. Keeping Gaza under siege so no drones can be delivered to Hamas is imperative.
For those who haven't been following the Ukraine war, drone capabilities are advancing at exponential rates. If you are within 10 miles of the front line, and not under a state of the art Electronic Warfare umbrella, a drone can hunt you down and kill you.
Riding a vehicle bigger than a unicycle? A drone will get you. Get more than two guys together in a trench? A drone will get you.
For those who haven't been following the Ukraine war, drone capabilities are advancing at exponential rates. If you are within 10 miles of the front line, and not under a state of the art Electronic Warfare umbrella, a drone can hunt you down and kill you.
Riding a vehicle bigger than a unicycle? A drone will get you. Get more than two guys together in a trench? A drone will get you.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at November 12, 2023 12:37 PM (QS/Jn)
71
October 7 sure seems Israeli intelligence organizations were asleep
Posted by: Skip at November 12, 2023 12:37 PM (fwDg9)
72
I've noticed a new (to me) journalist recently, a real journalist and author named Douglas Murray. He's extremely articulate and smart, and often just obliterates those who try to pull the usual crap on anyone who isn't a lefty.
I saw this this morning. It's a good intro, and as an extra bonus, he pantses Piers Morgan about the folly of treating all the morons marching for Hamas as anything other than the human sewage they are.
https://tinyurl.com/3tjwk4x3
I saw this this morning. It's a good intro, and as an extra bonus, he pantses Piers Morgan about the folly of treating all the morons marching for Hamas as anything other than the human sewage they are.
https://tinyurl.com/3tjwk4x3
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:38 PM (I/Qkd)
73
FLATTEN GAZA, DAGNABBIT!!!
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 12:38 PM (bAJ1Y)
74
October 7 sure seems Israeli intelligence organizations were asleep
Posted by: Skip at November 12, 2023 12:37 PM (fwDg9)
-
Oslophilia.
Posted by: Skip at November 12, 2023 12:37 PM (fwDg9)
-
Oslophilia.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 12:38 PM (bAJ1Y)
75
Thank you for this synopsis. Very informative
Posted by: Hatari somewhere on Ventura Highway at November 12, 2023 12:38 PM (WF/xn)
76
This is probably naive of me, but: The guys who parachuted into a youth festival and the guys who slaughtered kibbutz families in their homes don't seem "regular" to me; they don't seem disciplined; they seem like savages. I wouldn't expect them to survive intact as a military force.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:18 PM (aWeTk)
I watched these guys as well which led me to the attack and pillage comment. Most of the vids I saw they looked well equipped, and were clearly trained to use the gear they had, especially the paragliders. But once in a kibbutz, they stopped to look for things, opening refrigerators, etc. Trained to attack, but less so on the follow-thru.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:18 PM (aWeTk)
I watched these guys as well which led me to the attack and pillage comment. Most of the vids I saw they looked well equipped, and were clearly trained to use the gear they had, especially the paragliders. But once in a kibbutz, they stopped to look for things, opening refrigerators, etc. Trained to attack, but less so on the follow-thru.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 12:39 PM (uSHSS)
77
Good question.
I sense that time is increasingly on Israel's side. The world and lefties can bitch all they want, but Israel is clearly doing all they can to prevent civilian casualties, so they can keep up the pressure. I don't see the war expanding unless an outsider steps in. Israel has a specific objective, the elimination of Hamas. And the support Hamas was expecting hasn't really happened. Also, there is plenty of time after to deal with the outsiders that have been picking at them.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 12:31 PM (uSHSS)
Yeah, that's what I would assume, that the quicker Israel can eliminate Hamas (while keeping the barking dogs complaining about "civilian" casualties from overwhelming them), the less likely outsiders will come in.
I mean, there's the undercurrent from wherever/whomever, of not wanting the Jews to be there at all, but at what cost to them? If they calculate it's not worth their time/effort, then hopefully they let things be, with Israel having the final word on what happens to Hamas.
I sense that time is increasingly on Israel's side. The world and lefties can bitch all they want, but Israel is clearly doing all they can to prevent civilian casualties, so they can keep up the pressure. I don't see the war expanding unless an outsider steps in. Israel has a specific objective, the elimination of Hamas. And the support Hamas was expecting hasn't really happened. Also, there is plenty of time after to deal with the outsiders that have been picking at them.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 12:31 PM (uSHSS)
Yeah, that's what I would assume, that the quicker Israel can eliminate Hamas (while keeping the barking dogs complaining about "civilian" casualties from overwhelming them), the less likely outsiders will come in.
I mean, there's the undercurrent from wherever/whomever, of not wanting the Jews to be there at all, but at what cost to them? If they calculate it's not worth their time/effort, then hopefully they let things be, with Israel having the final word on what happens to Hamas.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 12, 2023 12:40 PM (QBaJw)
78
Thanks Diogenes. Your observations are appreciated.
Posted by: Sock Monkey * No quarter, no mercy at November 12, 2023 12:40 PM (9Y5Av)
79
Turkey is a good example of a country with a strong military, but almost no ability to project that force beyond its border with Syria.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:40 PM (S6gqv)
80
Gotta run off, but not before thanking Diogenes for a well written post.
Posted by: gourmand du jour at November 12, 2023 12:32 PM (MeG8a)
Glad you liked it. Thank you.
Posted by: gourmand du jour at November 12, 2023 12:32 PM (MeG8a)
Glad you liked it. Thank you.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 12:41 PM (uSHSS)
81
Has Hadrian popped in today at all?
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at November 12, 2023 12:41 PM (vHIgi)
82
We need autonomous AI guided drones programmed by Google to enforce the ceasefire! What could go wrong?
We need autonomous AI guided drones programmed by Google to enforce the ceasefire! What could go wrong?
Posted by: AFWL Veronica at November 12, 2023 12:41 PM (q0jZr)
83
Gaza is finished - the Israeli's have even shut off all access to the sea. From what I'm reading, I gather that they are not concerned about Southern Gaza much at all, so they must believe they've got all of the on the ground leadership holed up in the northern half. They've also hinted that they've got a lot of Palestinians cooperating with them in the South.
This is the interesting bit. If Israel occupies Gaza for the foreseeable future, are there any Palis who are willing and able to run a real government, as opposed the the Hamas thugocracy? Sure, some of them would pretend to have seen the light, but many of those will be killed (I hope) in the ongoing operation. Perhaps the Palis have finally had enough, and for once have spotted an opportunity they don't want to miss.
This is the interesting bit. If Israel occupies Gaza for the foreseeable future, are there any Palis who are willing and able to run a real government, as opposed the the Hamas thugocracy? Sure, some of them would pretend to have seen the light, but many of those will be killed (I hope) in the ongoing operation. Perhaps the Palis have finally had enough, and for once have spotted an opportunity they don't want to miss.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:41 PM (I/Qkd)
84
Thank you, Diogenes
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at November 12, 2023 12:15 PM (vHIgi)
My pleasure. Thank you.
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at November 12, 2023 12:15 PM (vHIgi)
My pleasure. Thank you.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 12:42 PM (uSHSS)
85
Israel war cabinet already said that what they are doing in Gaza, they will know how to do in Beirut.
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:35 PM (V13WU)
-
Beirut has been warned yesterday by Netanyahu (bluster). IAF already dropping leaflets in S. Lebanon.
Everything north of the Litani river has to be destroyed and declared Israel sovereign terriotory.
As for Beirut? Flatten it. With a nuke, if need be. Enough's enough.
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:35 PM (V13WU)
-
Beirut has been warned yesterday by Netanyahu (bluster). IAF already dropping leaflets in S. Lebanon.
Everything north of the Litani river has to be destroyed and declared Israel sovereign terriotory.
As for Beirut? Flatten it. With a nuke, if need be. Enough's enough.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 12:42 PM (bAJ1Y)
86
Thanks Diogenes. Your observations are appreciated.
Posted by: Sock Monkey * No quarter, no mercy at November 12, 2023 12:40 PM (9Y5Av)
Thanxs.
Posted by: Sock Monkey * No quarter, no mercy at November 12, 2023 12:40 PM (9Y5Av)
Thanxs.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 12:43 PM (uSHSS)
87
I wonder if a lot of the anger on the left is because they are convinced, they can talk anyone into anything. And this whole situation is demonstrating they are essentially useless in this situation. And they hate a clear demonstration of their 'value'.
Joe Biden is stuck. He can't take sides or he loses large voting blocks at the start of an election year. So he tries to ride the fence, looks weak and now he is losing votes anyway. His only hope is to force a cease fire, convince them to come to some sort of Camp David Peace Talks and paint himself as some sort of Elder Statesman regardless of results.
Joe Biden is stuck. He can't take sides or he loses large voting blocks at the start of an election year. So he tries to ride the fence, looks weak and now he is losing votes anyway. His only hope is to force a cease fire, convince them to come to some sort of Camp David Peace Talks and paint himself as some sort of Elder Statesman regardless of results.
Posted by: JB1000 at November 12, 2023 12:43 PM (aOMLp)
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:43 PM (I/Qkd)
89
OT: Chicago is about to start a political purge of the police department.
Currently, the existing rule reads, "...prohibiting Department members from membership in or affiliation with criminal organizations and from association with known members of criminal organizations."
Makes sense.
However, a change is going to be made to that rule:
The change would widen the net to preclude members and participants in criminal groups from becoming members of CPD. It would add "biased" organizations to the list too.
"Groups that focus on biased conduct don't always commit crimes, but it's conduct is still not conduct that we think is appropriate for Chicago police officers," said Yvette Loizon, a member of the city's Community Commission for Public Safety and Accountability.
Gosh, I wonder what groups will be defined as "biased"?
The NRA, the Knights of Columbus, any other group that the SPLC doesn't like...
Currently, the existing rule reads, "...prohibiting Department members from membership in or affiliation with criminal organizations and from association with known members of criminal organizations."
Makes sense.
However, a change is going to be made to that rule:
The change would widen the net to preclude members and participants in criminal groups from becoming members of CPD. It would add "biased" organizations to the list too.
"Groups that focus on biased conduct don't always commit crimes, but it's conduct is still not conduct that we think is appropriate for Chicago police officers," said Yvette Loizon, a member of the city's Community Commission for Public Safety and Accountability.
Gosh, I wonder what groups will be defined as "biased"?
The NRA, the Knights of Columbus, any other group that the SPLC doesn't like...
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 12, 2023 12:44 PM (YAtuc)
90
Well done, Diogenes, well done!
Posted by: Duke Lowell at November 12, 2023 12:44 PM (u73oe)
91
How this war could expand - Israel is pulling back on its air operations in Gaza, as ground troops take over, and shifting them to the border with Hezbollah. And yesterday Israel's defense minister issued a statement which pretty much dared Hezbollah to try and start something. It sounded like he was itching to turn the entire army north.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:34 PM (S6gqv)
I guess that's the bigger question. If/when they can defeat and eliminate Hamas, how long before things heat up elsewhere. While they're mopping up or after. I don't think the answer is "it won't."
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:34 PM (S6gqv)
I guess that's the bigger question. If/when they can defeat and eliminate Hamas, how long before things heat up elsewhere. While they're mopping up or after. I don't think the answer is "it won't."
Posted by: BurtTC at November 12, 2023 12:44 PM (QBaJw)
92
How butch of you.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:43 PM (I/Qkd)
-
Thanks. Any time.
Have you lived here for the last 35+ years?
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:43 PM (I/Qkd)
-
Thanks. Any time.
Have you lived here for the last 35+ years?
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 12:44 PM (bAJ1Y)
93
Trained to attack, but less so on the follow-thru.
Posted by: Diogenes
Watched some Israeli analysis that claimed a significant number of combatants were pharmaceutically charged up.
Posted by: Diogenes
Watched some Israeli analysis that claimed a significant number of combatants were pharmaceutically charged up.
Posted by: Sock Monkey * No quarter, no mercy at November 12, 2023 12:44 PM (9Y5Av)
94
October 7 sure seems Israeli intelligence organizations were asleep
Posted by: Skip
Well, the NYT and CNN were on it!
Posted by: Skip
Well, the NYT and CNN were on it!
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:45 PM (FVME7)
95
Joe Biden is stuck. He can't take sides or he loses large voting blocks at the start of an election year. So he tries to ride the fence, looks weak and now he is losing votes anyway. His only hope is to force a cease fire, convince them to come to some sort of Camp David Peace Talks and paint himself as some sort of Elder Statesman regardless of results.
He can paint himself any color he wants, but I think he's reached the point that nobody believes anything he says or does. That's why so many in the party want him gone.
He can paint himself any color he wants, but I think he's reached the point that nobody believes anything he says or does. That's why so many in the party want him gone.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:45 PM (I/Qkd)
96
["Diogenes" has multiple graduate degrees with a focus on the Middle East, and an Army Intelligence Officer graduate of both the Army and USMC Command and Staff Colleges.]
No shit ?
Whoa !
No shit ?
Whoa !
Posted by: JT at November 12, 2023 12:45 PM (T4tVD)
97
The NRA, the Knights of Columbus, any other group that the SPLC doesn't like...
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 12, 2023 12:44 PM (YAtuc)
Elks club... biased against the Moose Club... both must be banninated!
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 12, 2023 12:44 PM (YAtuc)
Elks club... biased against the Moose Club... both must be banninated!
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 12:45 PM (xaFKb)
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:45 PM (aWeTk)
99
I find it interesting that I learn much more about what’s going on in Gaza here than anywhere else. Check any major news site and I get nothing like the detail or analysis here.
That’s a compliment to AoS (and Diogenes) and a sad commentary on the FNM at the same time. What do the full-time media spend their time doing?
That’s a compliment to AoS (and Diogenes) and a sad commentary on the FNM at the same time. What do the full-time media spend their time doing?
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at November 12, 2023 12:45 PM (xT8gx)
100
The of Hamas is near : "Russia has begun evacuating its citizens....
"The Emergency Situations Ministry together with Russian diplomats have organized the evacuation of civilians from the Gaza Strip," read the statement, which was published on the messaging app Telegram."
right, "civilians"....
"The Emergency Situations Ministry together with Russian diplomats have organized the evacuation of civilians from the Gaza Strip," read the statement, which was published on the messaging app Telegram."
right, "civilians"....
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:45 PM (V13WU)
101
*the end of hamas
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:46 PM (V13WU)
Posted by: javems at November 12, 2023 12:46 PM (wYSuT)
103
IDF said yesterday that the RATE of rocket fire from Gaza has diminished, & is diminishing. That would be hard evidence that Hamas itself is diminishing, I believe.
Posted by: KC Wolf (mnw) at November 12, 2023 12:46 PM (NLIak)
104
I guess that's the bigger question. If/when they can defeat and eliminate Hamas, how long before things heat up elsewhere. While they're mopping up or after. I don't think the answer is "it won't."
Posted by: BurtTC at November 12, 2023 12:44 PM (QBaJw)
-
Things are already heating up in the north. More ATs, mortars and rockets every day.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 12, 2023 12:44 PM (QBaJw)
-
Things are already heating up in the north. More ATs, mortars and rockets every day.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 12:46 PM (bAJ1Y)
105
Most don't know this, but by treaty obligation we have 500 US Troops in the Sanai, essentially watching the Egypt / Israel / Gaza borders...
Wonder what the heck THEY are up to?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 12:36 PM (xaFKb)
A fun bit of info that has been mostly ignored - Egypt has moved a line of M-60 tanks (I didn't realize anyone still used those) to just below the Rafah crossing; but their stated purpose is to STOP any Palestinians from trying to breach the border and flee into Egypt. Other countries keep saying "why don't we just relocate these Palestinians to the Sinai?" and every time someone proposes that, the Egyptians say "not only no, but Oh HELL No!!!"
Wonder what the heck THEY are up to?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 12:36 PM (xaFKb)
A fun bit of info that has been mostly ignored - Egypt has moved a line of M-60 tanks (I didn't realize anyone still used those) to just below the Rafah crossing; but their stated purpose is to STOP any Palestinians from trying to breach the border and flee into Egypt. Other countries keep saying "why don't we just relocate these Palestinians to the Sinai?" and every time someone proposes that, the Egyptians say "not only no, but Oh HELL No!!!"
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:46 PM (S6gqv)
106
["Diogenes" has multiple graduate degrees with a focus on the Middle East, and an Army Intelligence Officer graduate of both the Army and USMC Command and Staff Colleges.]
No shit ?
Whoa !
Posted by: JT at November 12, 2023 12:45 PM (T4tVD)
RIGHT ??! All this time I thought he was just another Moron....😃
No shit ?
Whoa !
Posted by: JT at November 12, 2023 12:45 PM (T4tVD)
RIGHT ??! All this time I thought he was just another Moron....😃
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:48 PM (V13WU)
107
Other countries keep saying "why don't we just relocate these Palestinians to the Sinai?" and every time someone proposes that, the Egyptians say "not only no, but Oh HELL No!!!"
It's amazing to me how few of the idiots bleating about the poor Pali refugees grasp the fact that NOBODY wants them. There's a good reason for that.
It's amazing to me how few of the idiots bleating about the poor Pali refugees grasp the fact that NOBODY wants them. There's a good reason for that.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:48 PM (I/Qkd)
108
How butch of you.
Posted by: Archimedes
The Limey metric footballers are more butch than us.
https://tinyurl.com/ynbajvzj
Posted by: Archimedes
The Limey metric footballers are more butch than us.
https://tinyurl.com/ynbajvzj
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:48 PM (FVME7)
109
If a war with Hezbollah starts, Israel's goal should be to weaken Hezbollah enough that other groups in Lebanon start being able to challenge Hezbollah's primacy over Lebanon.
I'm sure that's why Hezbollah is hesitating - Israel won't be bombing the Christian militias.
I'm sure that's why Hezbollah is hesitating - Israel won't be bombing the Christian militias.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 12, 2023 12:49 PM (YAtuc)
110
>>> And while we were sleeping, "Israel has signed a deal to sell the David's Sling anti-missile system to Finland". Interesting , no.
Posted by: runner
Perhaps sold a manufacturing license. Cost? Send 'x' units a year back to Israel for 'y'?
Posted by: runner
Perhaps sold a manufacturing license. Cost? Send 'x' units a year back to Israel for 'y'?
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at November 12, 2023 12:50 PM (cOq4q)
111
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:46 PM (S6gqv)
Yeah, and as the Palis actually should be Jordanian... its funny that Jordan does not want them either.
Yeah, and as the Palis actually should be Jordanian... its funny that Jordan does not want them either.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 12:50 PM (xaFKb)
112
88 As for Beirut? Flatten it. With a nuke, if need be. Enough's enough.
How butch of you.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:43 PM (I/Qkd)
He's got skin in the game.
How butch of you.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 12:43 PM (I/Qkd)
He's got skin in the game.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:50 PM (aWeTk)
113
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:46 PM (S6gqv)
-
It's not hard to search for articles on Egypt's military violations in Sinai, with Israel ignoring them for decades.
You can also look up what Egypt's military maneuvers are simulating year after year and how their officer staff gloats about it.
Nothing new under the sun. Israel is asleep, drunk with dreams of peace, only partially awoken on Oct. 7.
-
It's not hard to search for articles on Egypt's military violations in Sinai, with Israel ignoring them for decades.
You can also look up what Egypt's military maneuvers are simulating year after year and how their officer staff gloats about it.
Nothing new under the sun. Israel is asleep, drunk with dreams of peace, only partially awoken on Oct. 7.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 12:51 PM (bAJ1Y)
114
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice!
When does Pumpkin Spice! season end?
Posted by: m
OK, OK, this is more timely anyway.
When does Pumpkin Spice! season end?
Posted by: m
OK, OK, this is more timely anyway.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at November 12, 2023 12:51 PM (FVME7)
115
That’s a compliment to AoS (and Diogenes) and a sad commentary on the FNM at the same time. What do the full-time media spend their time doing?
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at November 12, 2023 12:45 PM (xT8gx)
The western media's reporting on this has been worse than pathetic. Fox has been the least bad, and yet when I watch them I note that even they get the particulars of almost every story they cover wrong. I don't even think it's really because the MSM is biased (although of course they are) It's because their "reporters" are complete fools who have no idea as to how to cover an actual war, and instead just get lost in all the Emo stories about how people "feel" about the fake stories they're being told, with a bit of the nanny nanny boo boo namecalling throw in.
Saw an Isreali source comment on the new MSM claim that Israel is "losing the info war". He said "we really don't give a dam about the info war, we are focused on winning the REAL war."
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at November 12, 2023 12:45 PM (xT8gx)
The western media's reporting on this has been worse than pathetic. Fox has been the least bad, and yet when I watch them I note that even they get the particulars of almost every story they cover wrong. I don't even think it's really because the MSM is biased (although of course they are) It's because their "reporters" are complete fools who have no idea as to how to cover an actual war, and instead just get lost in all the Emo stories about how people "feel" about the fake stories they're being told, with a bit of the nanny nanny boo boo namecalling throw in.
Saw an Isreali source comment on the new MSM claim that Israel is "losing the info war". He said "we really don't give a dam about the info war, we are focused on winning the REAL war."
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:51 PM (S6gqv)
116
Most don't know this, but by treaty obligation we have 500 US Troops in the Sanai, essentially watching the Egypt / Israel / Gaza borders...
The purpose of the force is to enforce the treaty limit on how many soldiers/tanks/artillery pieces Egypt can station close to Israel.
The purpose of the force is to enforce the treaty limit on how many soldiers/tanks/artillery pieces Egypt can station close to Israel.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 12, 2023 12:51 PM (YAtuc)
117
M, a.follow on to your earlier comment.
These guys were savage. War js ugly between combatants, it is worse when you slaughter civilians. I hope Israel can track every one down and administer immediate justice. The other thing, their stupidity here opened the door for Israel to commit to total war.
These guys were savage. War js ugly between combatants, it is worse when you slaughter civilians. I hope Israel can track every one down and administer immediate justice. The other thing, their stupidity here opened the door for Israel to commit to total war.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 12:51 PM (uSHSS)
118
Watching the invasion of Gaza I'm impressed by the very methodical way the Israelis are going about business. Seems that Hezbollah was waiting until Gaza turned into a tar baby for Israel before the started launching a full scale attack on the north. The methodical way their doing it has led to only minor fighting in the north
Posted by: Smell the Glove at November 12, 2023 12:52 PM (O8bOp)
119
Also, there is plenty of time after to deal with the outsiders that have been picking at them.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 12:31 PM (uSHSS)
Very good point, and Hezbollah is being very careful not to escalate past a certain point. That may change, but for now, they are not f*cking around because they don't want to find out.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 12:31 PM (uSHSS)
Very good point, and Hezbollah is being very careful not to escalate past a certain point. That may change, but for now, they are not f*cking around because they don't want to find out.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 12, 2023 12:52 PM (3Gtis)
120
RIGHT ??! All this time I thought he was just another Moron....😃
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:48 PM (V13WU)
Mrs D would agree with that.
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:48 PM (V13WU)
Mrs D would agree with that.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 12:53 PM (uSHSS)
121
Saw an Isreali source comment on the new MSM claim that Israel is "losing the info war". He said "we really don't give a dam about the info war, we are focused on winning the REAL war."
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:51 PM (S6gqv)
Now, since the media has proven itself feckless...
Now look at Russia / Ukraine.
Hell, look at all the anti Trump stuff...
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:51 PM (S6gqv)
Now, since the media has proven itself feckless...
Now look at Russia / Ukraine.
Hell, look at all the anti Trump stuff...
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 12:53 PM (xaFKb)
122
If a war with Hezbollah starts, Israel's goal should be to weaken Hezbollah enough that other groups in Lebanon start being able to challenge Hezbollah's primacy over Lebanon.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 12, 2023 12:49 PM (YAtuc)
-
Islam made Lebanon a shit hole. What a pity. I feel very sorry for all of the non-Islamic citizens of Lebanon. Islam has subjugated them.
And what Israel (read: then PM Ehud Barak) did to the S. Lebanese Army remains our national shame.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 12, 2023 12:49 PM (YAtuc)
-
Islam made Lebanon a shit hole. What a pity. I feel very sorry for all of the non-Islamic citizens of Lebanon. Islam has subjugated them.
And what Israel (read: then PM Ehud Barak) did to the S. Lebanese Army remains our national shame.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 12:54 PM (bAJ1Y)
123
93 Trained to attack, but less so on the follow-thru.
Posted by: Diogenes
Watched some Israeli analysis that claimed a significant number of combatants were pharmaceutically charged up.
Posted by: Sock Monkey * No quarter, no mercy at November 12, 2023 12:44 PM (9Y5Av)
I had forgotten that--already. Thanks for the reminder.
Posted by: Diogenes
Watched some Israeli analysis that claimed a significant number of combatants were pharmaceutically charged up.
Posted by: Sock Monkey * No quarter, no mercy at November 12, 2023 12:44 PM (9Y5Av)
I had forgotten that--already. Thanks for the reminder.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:54 PM (aWeTk)
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:56 PM (V13WU)
125
Saw an Isreali source comment on the new MSM claim that Israel is "losing the info war". He said "we really don't give a dam about the info war, we are focused on winning the REAL war."
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:51 PM (S6gqv)
This is both correct and very dangerous.
Israel is indeed losing the info war, but that probably won't affect the conduct of the current efforts against Hamas.
The danger is in the future, when the information war losses mount up and Israel is seen as the bad guy by a majority in the United States.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:51 PM (S6gqv)
This is both correct and very dangerous.
Israel is indeed losing the info war, but that probably won't affect the conduct of the current efforts against Hamas.
The danger is in the future, when the information war losses mount up and Israel is seen as the bad guy by a majority in the United States.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 12, 2023 12:56 PM (3Gtis)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 12:56 PM (PQ4m2)
127
PM Ehud Barak
==
that guy....
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:56 PM (V13WU)
-
Buddy buddy with Epstein, too!
==
that guy....
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 12:56 PM (V13WU)
-
Buddy buddy with Epstein, too!
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 12:57 PM (bAJ1Y)
128
Just watched the National Anthem from the Air Force Academy. Sigh
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 12:56 PM (PQ4m2)
Non-binary furry didn't do a good job of singing it?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 12:56 PM (PQ4m2)
Non-binary furry didn't do a good job of singing it?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 12, 2023 12:57 PM (3Gtis)
129
94 October 7 sure seems Israeli intelligence organizations were asleep
Posted by: Skip
Well, the NYT and CNN were on it!
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:45 PM (FVME7)
Bibi doesn't read the NYT and CNN.
Posted by: Skip
Well, the NYT and CNN were on it!
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 12, 2023 12:45 PM (FVME7)
Bibi doesn't read the NYT and CNN.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 12:57 PM (aWeTk)
130
"A View Of The War In Gaza [Diogenes]"
Good job Mr. D
Posted by: javems at November 12, 2023 12:46 PM (wYSuT)
Thank you.
Good job Mr. D
Posted by: javems at November 12, 2023 12:46 PM (wYSuT)
Thank you.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 12:57 PM (uSHSS)
131
Central Africa has vast wide open territories, many opportunities for exciting animal husbandry, and unique growth potential...
Central Africa has vast wide open territories, many opportunities for exciting animal husbandry, and unique growth potential...
Posted by: Just Sayin at November 12, 2023 12:57 PM (q0jZr)
132
The danger is in the future, when the information war losses mount up and Israel is seen as the bad guy by a majority in the United States.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo
-
Because Communist China phone apps on U.S. phones conditioned them to believe that way.
What a crazy world.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo
-
Because Communist China phone apps on U.S. phones conditioned them to believe that way.
What a crazy world.
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 12:58 PM (DxFDO)
133
Yeah, and as the Palis actually should be Jordanian... its funny that Jordan does not want them either.
Posted by: Romeo13
Based on the etymology of surnames, the majority of palis are Egyptian, followed by Sudanese Arabs.
Posted by: Romeo13
Based on the etymology of surnames, the majority of palis are Egyptian, followed by Sudanese Arabs.
Posted by: Sock Monkey * No quarter, no mercy at November 12, 2023 12:59 PM (9Y5Av)
134
No War For Oil!
Posted by: democrat Earth Firsters And Code Pinkos at November 12, 2023 12:59 PM (R/m4+)
135
Non-binary furry didn't do a good job of singing it?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 12, 2023 12:57 PM (3Gtis)
Well actually I thought they only did an so so Job of singing it, but they all stood straight and at Attention with respect. I mean about the best we can expect from the AF LOL
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 12, 2023 12:57 PM (3Gtis)
Well actually I thought they only did an so so Job of singing it, but they all stood straight and at Attention with respect. I mean about the best we can expect from the AF LOL
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 12:59 PM (PQ4m2)
136
Nothing new under the sun. Israel is asleep, drunk with dreams of peace, only partially awoken on Oct. 7.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 12:51 PM (bAJ1Y)
Here's a disagreement we have, maybe because I'm farther away from the conflict than you, and I can disregard the betrayals of the past more easily. But I believe at this moment, Egypt despises the Palestinians just as much as the Israelis do, and is greatly enjoying the sight of Hamas getting its ass kicked.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 12:51 PM (bAJ1Y)
Here's a disagreement we have, maybe because I'm farther away from the conflict than you, and I can disregard the betrayals of the past more easily. But I believe at this moment, Egypt despises the Palestinians just as much as the Israelis do, and is greatly enjoying the sight of Hamas getting its ass kicked.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:59 PM (S6gqv)
137
Western Media is a Leftist cheerleaders organization
Posted by: Skip at November 12, 2023 12:59 PM (fwDg9)
138
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 12:51 PM (uSHSS)
“It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it”... Robert. E. Lee (most likely).
The US has been at war for 22 Years now. Invaded multiple countries... and still have large amounts of Men in harms way... IMO BECAUSE we have tried to take the Horror, out of War. Civilized War is an Oxymoron...
“It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it”... Robert. E. Lee (most likely).
The US has been at war for 22 Years now. Invaded multiple countries... and still have large amounts of Men in harms way... IMO BECAUSE we have tried to take the Horror, out of War. Civilized War is an Oxymoron...
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 12:59 PM (xaFKb)
139
many elements led to 10/7, and INTERNAL STRIFE (fomented by Ehud Barack in particular) played a huge part
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 01:00 PM (V13WU)
140
["Diogenes" has multiple graduate degrees with a focus on the Middle East, and an Army Intelligence Officer graduate of both the Army and USMC Command and Staff Colleges.]
It's frightening to come to the conclusion that the Horde can receive and process informed intel better than either the State Dept. or our Executive branch.
It's frightening to come to the conclusion that the Horde can receive and process informed intel better than either the State Dept. or our Executive branch.
Posted by: Tonypete at November 12, 2023 01:00 PM (e1mwr)
141
I've said this before, but The Day After Hamas will mean 4-5 years of Israeli occupation government, by whatever name it may be called.
The paradigm, I think, must be occupied Japan & the American military zone in Germany.
A pre-condition for that has to be making sure that Gazans understand once and for all that 1) Hamas lost the war, & 2) Hamas will never be allowed to return. Therefore, Gazans will have to find some entirely new & unfamiliar way going forward.
I feel as if I've provided a glimpse into the obvious.
The paradigm, I think, must be occupied Japan & the American military zone in Germany.
A pre-condition for that has to be making sure that Gazans understand once and for all that 1) Hamas lost the war, & 2) Hamas will never be allowed to return. Therefore, Gazans will have to find some entirely new & unfamiliar way going forward.
I feel as if I've provided a glimpse into the obvious.
Posted by: KC Wolf (mnw) at November 12, 2023 01:00 PM (NLIak)
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 01:01 PM (V13WU)
143
Islam made Lebanon a shit hole. What a pity. I feel very sorry for all of the non-Islamic citizens of Lebanon. Islam has subjugated them.
And what Israel (read: then PM Ehud Barak) did to the S. Lebanese Army remains our national shame.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 12:54 PM (bAJ1Y)
I faintly remember that PM Barak was in office in the 90s? From afar I didn’t think much of him (maybe because he was chummy with Bubba Clinton IIRC). You in particular would know… but my outsider opinion is it looks to me that Israel like the US has a small cloister of “elites” that are overly powerful and don’t share the values of a majority of the populace. Their own deep state if you will…. Even after this war is successful (I think it will be) those folks will remain…
And what Israel (read: then PM Ehud Barak) did to the S. Lebanese Army remains our national shame.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 12:54 PM (bAJ1Y)
I faintly remember that PM Barak was in office in the 90s? From afar I didn’t think much of him (maybe because he was chummy with Bubba Clinton IIRC). You in particular would know… but my outsider opinion is it looks to me that Israel like the US has a small cloister of “elites” that are overly powerful and don’t share the values of a majority of the populace. Their own deep state if you will…. Even after this war is successful (I think it will be) those folks will remain…
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at November 12, 2023 01:02 PM (xT8gx)
144
I think it's time to launch a world-wide movement to demand that the Sudeten Germans be allowed to return to their ancestral homes.
"From the mountains to the Mze, Sudetenland will be free!"
(The Mze is a river in Sudetenland.)
"From the mountains to the Mze, Sudetenland will be free!"
(The Mze is a river in Sudetenland.)
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 12, 2023 01:02 PM (YAtuc)
145
we have tried to take the Horror, out of War. Civilized War is an Oxymoron...
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 12:59 PM (xaFKb)
Spot on.
And it started in earnest the first time we took fire from a Mosque in Iraq and did not return massive fire to silence that fire and protect our Troops
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 12:59 PM (xaFKb)
Spot on.
And it started in earnest the first time we took fire from a Mosque in Iraq and did not return massive fire to silence that fire and protect our Troops
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 01:03 PM (PQ4m2)
146
The danger is in the future, when the information war losses mount up and Israel is seen as the bad guy by a majority in the United States.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 12, 2023 12:56 PM (3Gtis)
This is just one of the many reasons that the US is headed for a crack-up. I believe that process has been greatly accelerated now that the Far Left has been goaded into revealing that they've gone Full Nazi. (we knew they had, but they'd been trying not to show it so openly) I do think it is a huge shock to Israelis and their allies to have to face just how completely and totally today's left hates them - it truly is the old Nazi epidemic, given new life.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 12, 2023 12:56 PM (3Gtis)
This is just one of the many reasons that the US is headed for a crack-up. I believe that process has been greatly accelerated now that the Far Left has been goaded into revealing that they've gone Full Nazi. (we knew they had, but they'd been trying not to show it so openly) I do think it is a huge shock to Israelis and their allies to have to face just how completely and totally today's left hates them - it truly is the old Nazi epidemic, given new life.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 01:03 PM (S6gqv)
147
141 I've said this before, but The Day After Hamas will mean 4-5 years of Israeli occupation government, by whatever name it may be called.
The paradigm, I think, must be occupied Japan & the American military zone in Germany.
A pre-condition for that has to be making sure that Gazans understand once and for all that 1) Hamas lost the war, & 2) Hamas will never be allowed to return. Therefore, Gazans will have to find some entirely new & unfamiliar way going forward.
I feel as if I've provided a glimpse into the obvious.
Posted by: KC Wolf (mnw) at November 12, 2023 01:00 PM (NLIak)
I like that you typed it up.
The paradigm, I think, must be occupied Japan & the American military zone in Germany.
A pre-condition for that has to be making sure that Gazans understand once and for all that 1) Hamas lost the war, & 2) Hamas will never be allowed to return. Therefore, Gazans will have to find some entirely new & unfamiliar way going forward.
I feel as if I've provided a glimpse into the obvious.
Posted by: KC Wolf (mnw) at November 12, 2023 01:00 PM (NLIak)
I like that you typed it up.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 01:04 PM (aWeTk)
148
144 I think it's time to launch a world-wide movement to demand that the Sudeten Germans be allowed to return to their ancestral homes.
"From the mountains to the Mze, Sudetenland will be free!"
(The Mze is a river in Sudetenland.)
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 12, 2023 01:02 PM (YAtuc)
And all us descendants for the French Huguenots who were forced to Flee France in the 1500s and 1600s? Yeah, we'll take the South of France... thank you!
"From the mountains to the Mze, Sudetenland will be free!"
(The Mze is a river in Sudetenland.)
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 12, 2023 01:02 PM (YAtuc)
And all us descendants for the French Huguenots who were forced to Flee France in the 1500s and 1600s? Yeah, we'll take the South of France... thank you!
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:04 PM (xaFKb)
149
So, in 2017 thousands of Gazans demonstrated against Hamas government. You would not believe what happened next !
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 01:05 PM (V13WU)
150
I believe that process has been greatly accelerated now that the Far Left has been goaded into revealing that they've gone Full Nazi.
I think the opposite. The moral vacuum that is the modern left has now revealed itself, and the average person is embarrassed at having supported it. Even Bill Maher acknowledges this.
I think the opposite. The moral vacuum that is the modern left has now revealed itself, and the average person is embarrassed at having supported it. Even Bill Maher acknowledges this.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 01:06 PM (I/Qkd)
151
And it started in earnest the first time we took fire from a Mosque in Iraq and did not return massive fire to silence that fire and protect our Troops
Posted by: Nevergiveup
It is my understanding that the IDF has completely and utterly destroyed 18-20 Mosques that were considered sanctuaries by Hamas.
Lamentable that we aren't able to learn lessons also.
Posted by: Nevergiveup
It is my understanding that the IDF has completely and utterly destroyed 18-20 Mosques that were considered sanctuaries by Hamas.
Lamentable that we aren't able to learn lessons also.
Posted by: Tonypete at November 12, 2023 01:06 PM (e1mwr)
152
It's frightening to come to the conclusion that the Horde can receive and process informed intel better than either the State Dept. or our Executive branch.
Posted by: Tonypete at November 12, 2023 01:00 PM (e1mwr)
Most of those layabouts in the federal system are like the goldfish in a fish bowl. They only care about what is in front of them. They molest, rape, bribe, back stab, double dip, steal, lie, cheat and rape their fellow layabouts to get ahead and don't really care what goes on in the real world.
Their learned skolar degrees are of little help in MeatSpace.
Posted by: Tonypete at November 12, 2023 01:00 PM (e1mwr)
Most of those layabouts in the federal system are like the goldfish in a fish bowl. They only care about what is in front of them. They molest, rape, bribe, back stab, double dip, steal, lie, cheat and rape their fellow layabouts to get ahead and don't really care what goes on in the real world.
Their learned skolar degrees are of little help in MeatSpace.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at November 12, 2023 01:07 PM (R/m4+)
153
Thanks for this Diogenes. Clear, concise, nice analysis.
I'm sure the intelligence is fluid and constantly evolving, but how good a handle do you think the IDF has on the extent, communications, command/control and defensive capabilities within the tunnel system?
I'm sure the intelligence is fluid and constantly evolving, but how good a handle do you think the IDF has on the extent, communications, command/control and defensive capabilities within the tunnel system?
Posted by: Muldoon at November 12, 2023 01:07 PM (991eG)
154
Succinct and excellent analysis Diogenes.
Posted by: whig at November 12, 2023 01:07 PM (m978P)
155
And it started in earnest the first time we took fire from a Mosque in Iraq and did not return massive fire to silence that fire and protect our Troops
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 01:03 PM (PQ4m2)
Started in 83, Lebanon, when we had the USS New Jersey available, but did not do a damn thing after the Barracks was destroyed.
But really goes back to the public reaction to the My Lai massacre...
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 01:03 PM (PQ4m2)
Started in 83, Lebanon, when we had the USS New Jersey available, but did not do a damn thing after the Barracks was destroyed.
But really goes back to the public reaction to the My Lai massacre...
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:07 PM (xaFKb)
156
Here's a disagreement we have, maybe because I'm farther away from the conflict than you, and I can disregard the betrayals of the past more easily. But I believe at this moment, Egypt despises the Palestinians just as much as the Israelis do, and is greatly enjoying the sight of Hamas getting its ass kicked.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:59 PM (S6gqv)
-
Once again, let me introduce you to Venn Diagrams.
Egypt is praying that Israel leave Gaza again so that they can rack up the balls for more games in the future.
Egypt loathes Israel.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:59 PM (S6gqv)
-
Once again, let me introduce you to Venn Diagrams.
Egypt is praying that Israel leave Gaza again so that they can rack up the balls for more games in the future.
Egypt loathes Israel.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:08 PM (bAJ1Y)
157
Great explanation, Diogenes. Thanks.
Posted by: JackStraw at November 12, 2023 01:08 PM (ZLI7S)
158
It is my understanding that the IDF has completely and utterly destroyed 18-20 Mosques that were considered sanctuaries by Hamas.
Lamentable that we aren't able to learn lessons also.
Posted by: Tonypete at November 12, 2023 01:06 PM (e1mwr)
Well, I do not know the statistics, but yes the gloves have been taken off, which is why they will soon also go after the hospitals which are ALL Terrorist HQs and beehives. But, they will do it on foot which will mean higher Israeli casualties
Lamentable that we aren't able to learn lessons also.
Posted by: Tonypete at November 12, 2023 01:06 PM (e1mwr)
Well, I do not know the statistics, but yes the gloves have been taken off, which is why they will soon also go after the hospitals which are ALL Terrorist HQs and beehives. But, they will do it on foot which will mean higher Israeli casualties
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 01:08 PM (PQ4m2)
Posted by: Capt. Kirk at November 12, 2023 01:08 PM (q0jZr)
160
They've also hinted that they've got a lot of Palestinians cooperating with them in the South.
Tom, good point.
I would not be surprised if the Israeli government has a good idea who they want to work with once Hamas is gone. I've been saying unconditional surrender can be the only result, and someone on the Pali side has to sign the paperwork.
Tom, good point.
I would not be surprised if the Israeli government has a good idea who they want to work with once Hamas is gone. I've been saying unconditional surrender can be the only result, and someone on the Pali side has to sign the paperwork.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:09 PM (uSHSS)
161
It is my understanding that the IDF has completely and utterly destroyed 18-20 Mosques that were considered sanctuaries by Hamas.
Posted by: Tonypete at November 12, 2023 01:06 PM (e1mwr)
-
That's a small stain on Gaza's leg.
Posted by: Tonypete at November 12, 2023 01:06 PM (e1mwr)
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That's a small stain on Gaza's leg.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:09 PM (bAJ1Y)
162
Started in 83, Lebanon, when we had the USS New Jersey available, but did not do a damn thing after the Barracks was destroyed.
But really goes back to the public reaction to the My Lai massacre...
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:07 PM (xaFKb)
No argument there
But really goes back to the public reaction to the My Lai massacre...
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:07 PM (xaFKb)
No argument there
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 01:09 PM (PQ4m2)
163
Question for Diogenes:
I see lots of video clips of vacant urban lots exploding in huge multiple fountains of dirt, but completely missing the surrounding buildings. Do you think this is very precise air power, or is it IDF placement of charges? Obviously both would be intended to take out tunnels.
I see lots of video clips of vacant urban lots exploding in huge multiple fountains of dirt, but completely missing the surrounding buildings. Do you think this is very precise air power, or is it IDF placement of charges? Obviously both would be intended to take out tunnels.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 01:10 PM (I/Qkd)
164
Well, I do not know the statistics, but yes the gloves have been taken off, which is why they will soon also go after the hospitals which are ALL Terrorist HQs and beehives. But, they will do it on foot which will mean higher Israeli casualties
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 01:08 PM (PQ4m2)
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Indeed, we Israelis are THAT dumb - and immoral, I will add.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 01:08 PM (PQ4m2)
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Indeed, we Israelis are THAT dumb - and immoral, I will add.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:10 PM (bAJ1Y)
165
Excellent analysis, thank you Diogenes.
Other considerations are available to Israel. For one, time is on their side…for now and into the next several months.
===
This has never been true, why would it be true now?
Other considerations are available to Israel. For one, time is on their side…for now and into the next several months.
===
This has never been true, why would it be true now?
Posted by: San Franpsycho at November 12, 2023 01:11 PM (RIvkX)
166
I see lots of video clips of vacant urban lots exploding in huge multiple fountains of dirt, but completely missing the surrounding buildings. Do you think this is very precise air power, or is it IDF placement of charges? Obviously both would be intended to take out tunnels.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 01:10 PM (I/Qkd)
when you see that, I believe you are seeing tunnels being targeted. In the attack in Jabaliyah, secondary explosions in the tunnels brought down several apartment buildings over several blocks. (and Hamas claimed it was Israel's fault that they were forced to store so many high explosives underneath those apartment buildings)
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 01:10 PM (I/Qkd)
when you see that, I believe you are seeing tunnels being targeted. In the attack in Jabaliyah, secondary explosions in the tunnels brought down several apartment buildings over several blocks. (and Hamas claimed it was Israel's fault that they were forced to store so many high explosives underneath those apartment buildings)
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 01:12 PM (S6gqv)
167
I've been saying unconditional surrender can be the only result, and someone on the Pali side has to sign the paperwork.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:09 PM (uSHSS)
-
There is no reason for Israel to allow the formation of a spanking brand new Islamic terrorist state in Gaza. They must go! But we won't do that. See you back here in a few years.
The fake Einstein "insanity" quote is fake but accurate.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:09 PM (uSHSS)
-
There is no reason for Israel to allow the formation of a spanking brand new Islamic terrorist state in Gaza. They must go! But we won't do that. See you back here in a few years.
The fake Einstein "insanity" quote is fake but accurate.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:13 PM (bAJ1Y)
168
I'm sure the intelligence is fluid and constantly evolving, but how good a handle do you think the IDF has on the extent, communications, command/control and defensive capabilities within the tunnel system?
Posted by: Muldoon at November 12, 2023 01:07 PM (991eG)
Hard to say. I suspect, with the IDF creating the Engineer Battalion that specializes in subterranean tactics, they know more than we will ever know. My guess, and it is just a guess, the IDF had a handle.on the main routes with some mapping of the rest of it. 40% maybe?
Posted by: Muldoon at November 12, 2023 01:07 PM (991eG)
Hard to say. I suspect, with the IDF creating the Engineer Battalion that specializes in subterranean tactics, they know more than we will ever know. My guess, and it is just a guess, the IDF had a handle.on the main routes with some mapping of the rest of it. 40% maybe?
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:14 PM (uSHSS)
169
164 Well, I do not know the statistics, but yes the gloves have been taken off, which is why they will soon also go after the hospitals which are ALL Terrorist HQs and beehives. But, they will do it on foot which will mean higher Israeli casualties
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 01:08 PM (PQ4m2)
Here is how fast the war has been moving - 3 of the 4 major hospitals are already under full Israeli control, and the 4th should be taken soon.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 01:08 PM (PQ4m2)
Here is how fast the war has been moving - 3 of the 4 major hospitals are already under full Israeli control, and the 4th should be taken soon.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 01:14 PM (S6gqv)
170
I think there's an effort to figure out how to keep money and government/legislative power flowing, too. The "War on Terror" is still going on, with all of the one-way benefits to the government that compromise citizens' freedoms intact because "we're at war", isn't it? There's big money in it. JJ mentioned a name the other day in regards to DoD contractors putting on a federal government official (office of the joint chief of staff or similar?) hat and being the same folks urging us to war.
Heck, Biden is trying to fund both sides of the Palestine vs Israel conflict in order to make sure it's not over too quickly. I assume for that very reason.
Heck, Biden is trying to fund both sides of the Palestine vs Israel conflict in order to make sure it's not over too quickly. I assume for that very reason.
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 01:15 PM (DxFDO)
171
Well done Mr. D. Your perspective is thought provoking
Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at November 12, 2023 01:15 PM (ZV+pB)
172
At Insty: Greta Thunberg, not content with being a galactic science brain and solving climate chaos for the world, is now also an expert in Middle Eastern politics.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 01:15 PM (I/Qkd)
173
Archimedes,
See Tom's comment at 166.
See Tom's comment at 166.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:16 PM (uSHSS)
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:16 PM (bAJ1Y)
175
Here is how fast the war has been moving - 3 of the 4 major hospitals are already under full Israeli control, and the 4th should be taken soon.
So then where are the remaining Hamas animals and their hostages?
Here is how fast the war has been moving - 3 of the 4 major hospitals are already under full Israeli control, and the 4th should be taken soon.
So then where are the remaining Hamas animals and their hostages?
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 01:17 PM (I/Qkd)
176
Also I don't care much for our modern approach of telling everyone what we're going to do today, tomorrow, and next week and also making sure to post where all of our resources are and where they're headed next.
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 01:17 PM (DxFDO)
Posted by: Robert's imagination is running wild at November 12, 2023 01:17 PM (1Yy3c)
178
And all us descendants for the French Huguenots who were forced to Flee France in the 1500s and 1600s? Yeah, we'll take the South of France... thank you!
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:04 PM (xaFKb)
----------
*fistbump*
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:04 PM (xaFKb)
----------
*fistbump*
Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at November 12, 2023 01:18 PM (ScR16)
179
Egypt loathes Israel.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:08 PM (bAJ1Y)
The fun part of the middle east is that Everybody loathes Everybody. The Saudi's just played a delightfully duplicitous game with their big Arab League Summit the last few days. Lebanon/Hezbollah this morning was "outraged" and calling for the Arab League to be disbanded as a result - HA!
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:08 PM (bAJ1Y)
The fun part of the middle east is that Everybody loathes Everybody. The Saudi's just played a delightfully duplicitous game with their big Arab League Summit the last few days. Lebanon/Hezbollah this morning was "outraged" and calling for the Arab League to be disbanded as a result - HA!
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 01:18 PM (S6gqv)
180
Greta Thunberg
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 01:15 PM (I/Qkd)
Sit down, kid, ya bother me.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 01:15 PM (I/Qkd)
Sit down, kid, ya bother me.
Posted by: W.C. Fields at November 12, 2023 01:18 PM (h4nev)
181
170 Heck, Biden is trying to fund both sides of the Palestine vs Israel conflict in order to make sure it's not over too quickly.
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 01:15 PM (DxFDO)
I hope that is not true.
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 01:15 PM (DxFDO)
I hope that is not true.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 01:18 PM (aWeTk)
182
Imagine how different the story would be if the mentally ill adult who looks like a young child only because of her stunted growth were against abortion.
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 01:19 PM (DxFDO)
183
Most of those layabouts in the federal system are like the goldfish in a fish bowl. They only care about what is in front of them. They molest, rape, bribe, back stab, double dip, steal, lie, cheat and rape their fellow layabouts to get ahead and don't really care what goes on in the real world.
Their learned skolar degrees are of little help in MeatSpace.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at November 12, 2023 01:07 PM (R/m4+)
You said "rape" twice.
Their learned skolar degrees are of little help in MeatSpace.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at November 12, 2023 01:07 PM (R/m4+)
You said "rape" twice.
Posted by: Robert's imagination is running wild at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (1Yy3c)
184
Do you think this is very precise air power, or is it IDF placement of charges? Obviously both would be intended to take out tunnels.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 01:10 PM (I/Qkd)
when you see that, I believe you are seeing tunnels being targeted.
Understood, but is it by air or placement of explosives? I'm always interested in the nuts and bolts of how you achieve the goal. For example, if placement, does some guy or drone run over the ground and put explosives there, or is it done internally, i.e. in the tunnel? If by air, that carries with it risks that you'll dramatically miss the target, and take out a hospital, with the attendant huge loss of life. \sarc
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 01:10 PM (I/Qkd)
when you see that, I believe you are seeing tunnels being targeted.
Understood, but is it by air or placement of explosives? I'm always interested in the nuts and bolts of how you achieve the goal. For example, if placement, does some guy or drone run over the ground and put explosives there, or is it done internally, i.e. in the tunnel? If by air, that carries with it risks that you'll dramatically miss the target, and take out a hospital, with the attendant huge loss of life. \sarc
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (I/Qkd)
185
Plus, Hamas is on the defense, which historically enjoys a 3:1 advantage over the attacker, a figure that has remained remarkably constant over the centuries.
3 to 1 at the point of attack is the goal, not 3 to 1 overall.
Less if you can us arty first and then roll armor behind the infantry.
3 to 1 at the point of attack is the goal, not 3 to 1 overall.
Less if you can us arty first and then roll armor behind the infantry.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (aD39U)
186
There is no reason for Israel to allow the formation of a spanking brand new Islamic terrorist state in Gaza. They must go! But we won't do that. See you back here in a few years.
The fake Einstein "insanity" quote is fake but accurate.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:13 PM (bAJ1Y)
***
I am inclined to believe the Israelis will never allow another terrorist state in Gaza. As mentioned I think they know who they can work with in the future peace, and this group will have "significant" oversight.
The fake Einstein "insanity" quote is fake but accurate.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:13 PM (bAJ1Y)
***
I am inclined to believe the Israelis will never allow another terrorist state in Gaza. As mentioned I think they know who they can work with in the future peace, and this group will have "significant" oversight.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (uSHSS)
187
176 Also I don't care much for our modern approach of telling everyone what we're going to do today, tomorrow, and next week and also making sure to post where all of our resources are and where they're headed next.
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 01:17 PM (DxFDO)
Assume that some of it's an op?
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 01:17 PM (DxFDO)
Assume that some of it's an op?
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 01:21 PM (aWeTk)
188
Heck, Biden is trying to fund both sides of the Palestine vs Israel conflict in order to make sure it's not over too quickly.
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 01:15 PM (DxFDO)
Biden isn’t doing anything the people who are making those decisions (Obozo Bots) hate Israel and America. They will do whatever hurts us and Israel the most.
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 01:15 PM (DxFDO)
Biden isn’t doing anything the people who are making those decisions (Obozo Bots) hate Israel and America. They will do whatever hurts us and Israel the most.
Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at November 12, 2023 01:22 PM (8fz/C)
189
The NRA, the Knights of Columbus, any other group that the SPLC doesn't like...
Posted by: The ARC of History!
------
I see that numerous plants and flowers have now made the SPLC list of 'Haters'.
Posted by: The ARC of History!
------
I see that numerous plants and flowers have now made the SPLC list of 'Haters'.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 12, 2023 01:23 PM (XeU6L)
190
I hope that is not true.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 01:18 PM (aWeTk)
-
Hope is not a strategy.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 01:18 PM (aWeTk)
-
Hope is not a strategy.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:23 PM (bAJ1Y)
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 01:24 PM (aWeTk)
192
Plus, Hamas is on the defense, which historically enjoys a 3:1 advantage over the attacker, a figure that has remained remarkably constant over the centuries.
3 to 1 at the point of attack is the goal, not 3 to 1 overall.
Less if you can us arty first and then roll armor behind the infantry.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (aD39U)
***
Ahhhh. Maths!
I was thinking from the defensive perspective. How that changes in a siege scenario is something I need to look up.
3 to 1 at the point of attack is the goal, not 3 to 1 overall.
Less if you can us arty first and then roll armor behind the infantry.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (aD39U)
***
Ahhhh. Maths!
I was thinking from the defensive perspective. How that changes in a siege scenario is something I need to look up.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:24 PM (uSHSS)
193
190 I hope that is not true.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 01:18 PM (aWeTk)
-
Hope is not a strategy.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:23 PM (bAJ1Y)
True.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 01:18 PM (aWeTk)
-
Hope is not a strategy.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:23 PM (bAJ1Y)
True.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 01:25 PM (aWeTk)
194
But once in a kibbutz, they stopped to look for things, opening refrigerators, etc.
Posted by: Diogenes
Almost like they knew, for some weird reason, that they had lots of time to dawdle. Which was indeed the case, as it turned out.
Posted by: Diogenes
Almost like they knew, for some weird reason, that they had lots of time to dawdle. Which was indeed the case, as it turned out.
Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at November 12, 2023 01:25 PM (/QIWP)
195
I am inclined to believe the Israelis will never allow another terrorist state in Gaza. As mentioned I think they know who they can work with in the future peace, and this group will have "significant" oversight.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (uSHSS)
-
Gee. Where have I heard Israel think that before?!
They need to go. Islam is the enemy. Yes, they need to go from many more places as well. Watch your six.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (uSHSS)
-
Gee. Where have I heard Israel think that before?!
They need to go. Islam is the enemy. Yes, they need to go from many more places as well. Watch your six.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:25 PM (bAJ1Y)
196
I am inclined to believe the Israelis will never allow another terrorist state in Gaza. As mentioned I think they know who they can work with in the future peace, and this group will have "significant" oversight.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (uSHSS)
Yes, the gaza experiment has failed, and failed impressively, and must NEVER be allowed to exist again. Personally I would relocate all palestinians out of Gaza and remove that dagger aimed at Israel's sourthern heart. But since that is probably impossible, Israel will have to retain "security control" over the area. How that will look and function is something for tomorrow. Today is for wiping hamas and it's allies off the face of the earth
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (uSHSS)
Yes, the gaza experiment has failed, and failed impressively, and must NEVER be allowed to exist again. Personally I would relocate all palestinians out of Gaza and remove that dagger aimed at Israel's sourthern heart. But since that is probably impossible, Israel will have to retain "security control" over the area. How that will look and function is something for tomorrow. Today is for wiping hamas and it's allies off the face of the earth
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 01:25 PM (PQ4m2)
197
A key component here is the subterranean operations that the IDF faces. We last experienced this with the tunnels in Viet Nam, think Cu Chi, which was a form of battle we never really controlled.
-----------
Fightin' in a basement presents many difficulties. Number one bein': you're fightin' in a basement!
-----------
Fightin' in a basement presents many difficulties. Number one bein': you're fightin' in a basement!
Posted by: LT Aldo "The Apache" Raine at November 12, 2023 01:26 PM (ScR16)
198
31
As long as they shipped them ONLY to Boston, NYC, Chicago, and San Fran, I'd be fine with it.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:17 PM (S6gqv)
----
There's nothing stopping them from leaving those cities with time and I don't want them inside the US borders at all!
As long as they shipped them ONLY to Boston, NYC, Chicago, and San Fran, I'd be fine with it.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:17 PM (S6gqv)
----
There's nothing stopping them from leaving those cities with time and I don't want them inside the US borders at all!
Posted by: Ciampino - these are way below The Great Unwashed at November 12, 2023 01:27 PM (qfLjt)
199
I am inclined to believe the Israelis will never allow another terrorist state in Gaza. As mentioned I think they know who they can work with in the future peace, and this group will have "significant" oversight.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (uSHSS)
With all due respect sir, and I mean that, I can tell you who those people are: NO BODY! At your feet or at your throat. Bye the way, thank you for the great analysis.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (uSHSS)
With all due respect sir, and I mean that, I can tell you who those people are: NO BODY! At your feet or at your throat. Bye the way, thank you for the great analysis.
Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at November 12, 2023 01:27 PM (8fz/C)
200
200
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 01:27 PM (aWeTk)
201
I note the Arab League Summit because it is a perfect window into how the Saudi's think, and operate. I suspect the Israeli's understand them a bit, but no one in America seems to. So what happened - the Saudi's denounced the war in Gaza, said something should be done, and said that as the defacto Leader of the Arab World, they were going to host a grand summit of all the Arab Countries - so they all sent representatives. They even asked Iran over.
Once there, the Saudis managed it in a way guaranteed to split them all into warring factions, with the result that the Summit decided to do nothing but issue a few platitudes. Then they sent them all home and said "Look how Noble we are, we tried as hard as we could to do something!"
You've really got to appreciate how devious they are, and as I said, this is a good window into how the Saudis approach everything. Never believe anything they say, just watch what they do.
Once there, the Saudis managed it in a way guaranteed to split them all into warring factions, with the result that the Summit decided to do nothing but issue a few platitudes. Then they sent them all home and said "Look how Noble we are, we tried as hard as we could to do something!"
You've really got to appreciate how devious they are, and as I said, this is a good window into how the Saudis approach everything. Never believe anything they say, just watch what they do.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 01:27 PM (S6gqv)
202
I mean, it was just sitting right there for the taking.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 01:28 PM (aWeTk)
203
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 01:25 PM (PQ4m2)
Well, as it seems the only country in the area that REALLY supports them is... Iran?
Free Plane rides?
Well, as it seems the only country in the area that REALLY supports them is... Iran?
Free Plane rides?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:28 PM (xaFKb)
204
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 01:27 PM (S6gqv)
Yeah, the House of Saud has learned to play the game well... look at how well they played the US Gov response to 9/11.
A Saud planned it... Saudis mostly did it... yet we invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, and eventually Syria?
Yeah, the House of Saud has learned to play the game well... look at how well they played the US Gov response to 9/11.
A Saud planned it... Saudis mostly did it... yet we invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, and eventually Syria?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:31 PM (xaFKb)
205
Free Plane rides?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:28 PM (xaFKb)
-----------
Aerolineas Pinochet.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:28 PM (xaFKb)
-----------
Aerolineas Pinochet.
Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at November 12, 2023 01:31 PM (ScR16)
206
Well, as it seems the only country in the area that REALLY supports them is... Iran?
Free Plane rides?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:28 PM (xaFKb)
The Iranians want nothing to do with the palestinians. They use them like pawns, like the rest of the Arab World, and remember the Iranians are Persian, not Arab.
Well, as it seems the only country in the area that REALLY supports them is... Iran?
Free Plane rides?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:28 PM (xaFKb)
The Iranians want nothing to do with the palestinians. They use them like pawns, like the rest of the Arab World, and remember the Iranians are Persian, not Arab.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 01:31 PM (PQ4m2)
207
Heck, Biden is trying to fund both sides of the Palestine vs Israel conflict in order to make sure it's not over too quickly.
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 01:15 PM (DxFDO)
I hope that is not true.
Posted by: m
10% x 2 = 20%.
Betcha he is skimming.
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 01:15 PM (DxFDO)
I hope that is not true.
Posted by: m
10% x 2 = 20%.
Betcha he is skimming.
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at November 12, 2023 01:31 PM (cOq4q)
208
Free Plane rides?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:28 PM (xaFKb)
***
That is a pretty good idea
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:28 PM (xaFKb)
***
That is a pretty good idea
Posted by: Augusto Pinochet at November 12, 2023 01:31 PM (ZV+pB)
209
A Saud planned it... Saudis mostly did it... yet we invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, and eventually Syria?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:31 PM (xaFKb)
-
It takes two to tango.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:31 PM (xaFKb)
-
It takes two to tango.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:32 PM (bAJ1Y)
210
192 Ahhhh. Maths!
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:24 PM (uSHSS)
Bit of time in the UK?
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:24 PM (uSHSS)
Bit of time in the UK?
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 01:32 PM (aWeTk)
211
I wonder what the IDF's assessment is of the ballistic missile threat from Iran and their Houthi proxies.
It's been reported that Israel has used an extensive allotment of their anti-missile ammo so you'd have to presume Iran could, if they wanted to, lob thousands of their own IRBM's at Israel. Of course the backlash would be... serious. And the US has, for what it's worth, warned Iran that doing so would result in "consequences."
A USN Arleigh Burke DDG intercepted a number of suicide drones and missiles fired by the Houthi's while in the Red Sea. Iran purportedly has thousands more.
It's been reported that Israel has used an extensive allotment of their anti-missile ammo so you'd have to presume Iran could, if they wanted to, lob thousands of their own IRBM's at Israel. Of course the backlash would be... serious. And the US has, for what it's worth, warned Iran that doing so would result in "consequences."
A USN Arleigh Burke DDG intercepted a number of suicide drones and missiles fired by the Houthi's while in the Red Sea. Iran purportedly has thousands more.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at November 12, 2023 01:32 PM (Q4IgG)
212
@ 201. Thanks for the post. I said this from day 1. The Arabs will screw each other every chance they get. Hopefully, they are not willing to die on a hill Hamas created, but you never know. Not countries, tribes with a flag.
Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at November 12, 2023 01:33 PM (8fz/C)
213
The Iranians want nothing to do with the palestinians. They use them like pawns, like the rest of the Arab World, and remember the Iranians are Persian, not Arab.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 01:31 PM (PQ4m2)
-----------
Goon squads. When Iran brutally suppressed the protests in 2009, they used foreigners, largely Pals.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 01:31 PM (PQ4m2)
-----------
Goon squads. When Iran brutally suppressed the protests in 2009, they used foreigners, largely Pals.
Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at November 12, 2023 01:33 PM (ScR16)
214
I hope that is not true
==
The U.S. broke Israel's siege right off the bat, then
October 2023:
-Israel: $14.3 billion
In Tel Aviv, Biden promised an "unprecedented" package of aid to support Israel after the Hamas attacks of Oct. 7. The request includes funding for air and missile defense, military financing and embassy support.
-Humanitarian aid: $9.15 billion
This includes support for Israel, Gaza and Ukraine.
https://tinyurl.com/yrqofn62
--
Before Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks in Israel, the Biden administration had delivered $1.4 billion in humanitarian aid to programs serving Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, including for food, medicine and communications networks, making America by far the world’s top such donor. (No U.S. money flows to Hamas. In Gaza, it is distributed by a United Nations agency that services Palestinians.)
https://tinyurl.com/ympasnky
-
None of those billions goes to the government of Palestine or helps the government of Palestine, only Palestinians and through the helpful, honest, U.N. Because Science and shut up.
If you don't understand how Science works just go scoop water only out of the deep end of a pool. The shallow end is unaffected.
==
The U.S. broke Israel's siege right off the bat, then
October 2023:
-Israel: $14.3 billion
In Tel Aviv, Biden promised an "unprecedented" package of aid to support Israel after the Hamas attacks of Oct. 7. The request includes funding for air and missile defense, military financing and embassy support.
-Humanitarian aid: $9.15 billion
This includes support for Israel, Gaza and Ukraine.
https://tinyurl.com/yrqofn62
--
Before Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks in Israel, the Biden administration had delivered $1.4 billion in humanitarian aid to programs serving Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, including for food, medicine and communications networks, making America by far the world’s top such donor. (No U.S. money flows to Hamas. In Gaza, it is distributed by a United Nations agency that services Palestinians.)
https://tinyurl.com/ympasnky
-
None of those billions goes to the government of Palestine or helps the government of Palestine, only Palestinians and through the helpful, honest, U.N. Because Science and shut up.
If you don't understand how Science works just go scoop water only out of the deep end of a pool. The shallow end is unaffected.
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 01:33 PM (DxFDO)
215
209 A Saud planned it... Saudis mostly did it... yet we invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, and eventually Syria?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:31 PM (xaFKb)
-
It takes two to tango.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:32 PM (bAJ1Y)
Across 4 different administrations... both US Parties... pretty scary.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:31 PM (xaFKb)
-
It takes two to tango.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:32 PM (bAJ1Y)
Across 4 different administrations... both US Parties... pretty scary.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:33 PM (xaFKb)
216
https://legalinsurrection.com/israels response to october 7 massacre triggers virulent-antisemitic pro-hamas demonstrations across europe
Posted by: Skip at November 12, 2023 01:33 PM (fwDg9)
217
Other considerations are available to Israel. For one, time is on their side…for now and into the next several months.
===
This has never been true, why would it be true now?
Posted by: San Franpsycho at November 12, 2023 01:11 PM (RIvkX)
***
In the past the biggest constraint on the IDF has been Washington. Given the savagery and public method of attack by Hamas, the world has had to pause for a bit. Even DC. Biden is weak and I think Bibi can finesse him, and Blinkin, whenever he needs to. Further, the Israelis are doing this right. A declared war on a near-state actor. The rest of the world can bitch, but they will do nothing. Lastly, the Israelis are winning.
===
This has never been true, why would it be true now?
Posted by: San Franpsycho at November 12, 2023 01:11 PM (RIvkX)
***
In the past the biggest constraint on the IDF has been Washington. Given the savagery and public method of attack by Hamas, the world has had to pause for a bit. Even DC. Biden is weak and I think Bibi can finesse him, and Blinkin, whenever he needs to. Further, the Israelis are doing this right. A declared war on a near-state actor. The rest of the world can bitch, but they will do nothing. Lastly, the Israelis are winning.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:33 PM (uSHSS)
218
Across 4 different administrations... both US Parties... pretty scary.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:33 PM (xaFKb)
-
My guess is it's mainly about a combo of petroleum and military hardware and support.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:33 PM (xaFKb)
-
My guess is it's mainly about a combo of petroleum and military hardware and support.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:35 PM (bAJ1Y)
Posted by: Huck Follywood at November 12, 2023 01:35 PM (tbTAT)
220
Yeah, the House of Saud has learned to play the game well... look at how well they played the US Gov response to 9/11.
A Saud planned it... Saudis mostly did it... yet we invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, and eventually Syria?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:31 PM (xaFKb)
Yup, and we even ended up helping the Royals get rid of all of their internal enemies, cementing their hold on power.
A Saud planned it... Saudis mostly did it... yet we invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, and eventually Syria?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:31 PM (xaFKb)
Yup, and we even ended up helping the Royals get rid of all of their internal enemies, cementing their hold on power.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 01:36 PM (S6gqv)
221
I always end up thinking of posts with this kind of military detail in terms I can understand, from a medical perspective.
So what you're saying is Hamas is an antibiotic-resistant strain of syphilis that is causing painful discharge in the region and the IDF is inserting a red hot metal probe deep into the tunnel system, let's call it the urethra. They need to completely eradicate the infection so they may have to root around for a while, and even if it heals there will be scar tissue.
So what you're saying is Hamas is an antibiotic-resistant strain of syphilis that is causing painful discharge in the region and the IDF is inserting a red hot metal probe deep into the tunnel system, let's call it the urethra. They need to completely eradicate the infection so they may have to root around for a while, and even if it heals there will be scar tissue.
Posted by: Muldoon at November 12, 2023 01:36 PM (991eG)
222
Only thing missing is maps!
Posted by: Huck Follywood at November 12, 2023 01:35 PM (tbTAT)
-
I need my very own showing "YOU ARE HERE --->".
Posted by: Huck Follywood at November 12, 2023 01:35 PM (tbTAT)
-
I need my very own showing "YOU ARE HERE --->".
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at November 12, 2023 01:37 PM (bAJ1Y)
223
So what you're saying is Hamas is an antibiotic-resistant strain of syphilis that is causing painful discharge in the region and the IDF is inserting a red hot metal probe deep into the tunnel system, let's call it the urethra. They need to completely eradicate the infection so they may have to root around for a while, and even if it heals there will be scar tissue.
Posted by: Muldoon at November 12, 2023 01:36 PM (991eG)
-----
Ow, ow, ow.
Posted by: Muldoon at November 12, 2023 01:36 PM (991eG)
-----
Ow, ow, ow.
Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at November 12, 2023 01:37 PM (ScR16)
224
""Diogenes" has multiple graduate degrees with a focus on the Middle East, and an Army Intelligence Officer graduate of both the Army and USMC Command and Staff Colleges."
But how many women's studies and trans awareness degrees? Those are the most important issues for a real military man, or a trans "woman". Flying gay pride flags outside our embassies in Muslim countries ... genius military strategy.
/s
But how many women's studies and trans awareness degrees? Those are the most important issues for a real military man, or a trans "woman". Flying gay pride flags outside our embassies in Muslim countries ... genius military strategy.
/s
Posted by: illiniwek at November 12, 2023 01:37 PM (Cus5s)
225
Bit of time in the UK?
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 01:32 PM (aWeTk)
Mrs D watches a lot of BBC.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 01:32 PM (aWeTk)
Mrs D watches a lot of BBC.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:38 PM (uSHSS)
226
and the IDF is inserting a red hot metal probe deep into the tunnel system, let's call it the urethra.
==
I [heart] this blog !
==
I [heart] this blog !
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 01:38 PM (V13WU)
227
In the past the biggest constraint on the IDF has been Washington. Given the savagery and public method of attack by Hamas, the world has had to pause for a bit. Even DC. Biden is weak and I think Bibi can finesse him, and Blinkin, whenever he needs to. Further, the Israelis are doing this right. A declared war on a near-state actor. The rest of the world can bitch, but they will do nothing. Lastly, the Israelis are winning.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:33 PM (uSHSS)
Yes spot on. Although biden and his merry band of Appeasers would no doubt love to stab Israel in the back, This is an Election year and to win in the General Election, even biden can look as if he cut the legs out from Under the IDF and Israel on the brink of victory. It is the left and the dems appeasement, weakness, and financial support for Iran that has brought this on, but now they are stuck with the abject failure of that policy.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:33 PM (uSHSS)
Yes spot on. Although biden and his merry band of Appeasers would no doubt love to stab Israel in the back, This is an Election year and to win in the General Election, even biden can look as if he cut the legs out from Under the IDF and Israel on the brink of victory. It is the left and the dems appeasement, weakness, and financial support for Iran that has brought this on, but now they are stuck with the abject failure of that policy.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 01:38 PM (PQ4m2)
228
Posted by: Muldoon at November 12, 2023 01:36 PM (991eG)
Islam is a Cancer which has Mestasicized.
Islam is a Cancer which has Mestasicized.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:39 PM (xaFKb)
Posted by: irongrampa at November 12, 2023 01:39 PM (KATBx)
230
I always end up thinking of posts with this kind of military detail in terms I can understand, from a medical perspective.
So what you're saying is Hamas is an antibiotic-resistant strain of syphilis that is causing painful discharge in the region and the IDF is inserting a red hot metal probe deep into the tunnel system, let's call it the urethra. They need to completely eradicate the infection so they may have to root around for a while, and even if it heals there will be scar tissue.
Posted by: Muldoon
--
And their best friend is a pervert bug-chaser with a sadistic streak who gets off on knowing it hurts and hearing the patient talk about it.
So what you're saying is Hamas is an antibiotic-resistant strain of syphilis that is causing painful discharge in the region and the IDF is inserting a red hot metal probe deep into the tunnel system, let's call it the urethra. They need to completely eradicate the infection so they may have to root around for a while, and even if it heals there will be scar tissue.
Posted by: Muldoon
--
And their best friend is a pervert bug-chaser with a sadistic streak who gets off on knowing it hurts and hearing the patient talk about it.
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 01:39 PM (DxFDO)
231
184 Understood, but is it by air or placement of explosives? I'm always interested in the nuts and bolts of how you achieve the goal. For example, if placement, does some guy or drone run over the ground and put explosives there, or is it done internally, i.e. in the tunnel? If by air, that carries with it risks that you'll dramatically miss the target, and take out a hospital, with the attendant huge loss of life. \sarc
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM(I/Qkd)
We developed bunker buster bombs in the Iraq war. Some now as heavy as 30,000 lbs. They are guided so, precise. They probably use them some.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM(I/Qkd)
We developed bunker buster bombs in the Iraq war. Some now as heavy as 30,000 lbs. They are guided so, precise. They probably use them some.
Posted by: javems at November 12, 2023 01:40 PM (wYSuT)
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 01:41 PM (V13WU)
233
Let me help old Skip with a tinyurl:
https://tinyurl.com/69w6277p
https://tinyurl.com/69w6277p
Posted by: Angzarr the Cromulent at November 12, 2023 01:41 PM (XMwZJ)
234
So what you're saying is Hamas is an antibiotic-resistant strain of syphilis that is causing painful discharge in the region and the IDF is inserting a red hot metal probe deep into the tunnel system, let's call it the urethra. They need to completely eradicate the infection so they may have to root around for a while, and even if it heals there will be scar tissue.
Posted by: Muldoon at November 12, 2023 01:36 PM (991eG)
***
Once the fight in the north is done, the south can expect a prostate exam.
Posted by: Muldoon at November 12, 2023 01:36 PM (991eG)
***
Once the fight in the north is done, the south can expect a prostate exam.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:41 PM (uSHSS)
235
A USN Arleigh Burke DDG intercepted a number of suicide drones and missiles fired by the Houthi's while in the Red Sea. Iran purportedly has thousands more.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at November 12, 2023 01:32 PM (Q4IgG)
A report this morning said some had been shot down "with the help of a US ally in the region" which was not named. From the location, the implication was that this was either Egypt or the Saudi's, who do not want it publicly known that they're helping shoot down the missiles.
A darkly amusing part of the Houthi Missile story - most of those sent toward Israel has been shot down, but 15 - 20% of what they've been launching has landed in Gaza.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at November 12, 2023 01:32 PM (Q4IgG)
A report this morning said some had been shot down "with the help of a US ally in the region" which was not named. From the location, the implication was that this was either Egypt or the Saudi's, who do not want it publicly known that they're helping shoot down the missiles.
A darkly amusing part of the Houthi Missile story - most of those sent toward Israel has been shot down, but 15 - 20% of what they've been launching has landed in Gaza.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 01:41 PM (S6gqv)
236
So what you're saying is Hamas is an antibiotic-resistant strain of syphilis that is causing painful discharge in the region and the IDF is inserting a red hot metal probe deep into the tunnel system, let's call it the urethra. They need to completely eradicate the infection so they may have to root around for a while, and even if it heals there will be scar tissue.
Posted by: Muldoon at November 12, 2023 01:36 PM (991eG)
————
Worst limerick ever.
Posted by: Muldoon at November 12, 2023 01:36 PM (991eG)
————
Worst limerick ever.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at November 12, 2023 01:42 PM (u73oe)
237
Islam is a Cancer which has Mestasicized.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:39 PM (xaFKb)
Yes, and the Sow-dies were major drivers behind this.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:39 PM (xaFKb)
Yes, and the Sow-dies were major drivers behind this.
Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at November 12, 2023 01:42 PM (8fz/C)
238
Kina OT - What is in "Beersheba". Other than lot's of beer and barmaids named Sheba?
Used to see lots of jobs there for US DoD civilian drones.
Always thought, "Hmmm, with a name like Beersheba it has to be good."
Or lot's of jobs because it is like Newark?
Used to see lots of jobs there for US DoD civilian drones.
Always thought, "Hmmm, with a name like Beersheba it has to be good."
Or lot's of jobs because it is like Newark?
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at November 12, 2023 01:43 PM (cOq4q)
239
I am inclined to believe the Israelis will never allow another terrorist state in Gaza.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (uSHSS)
And I hope that it is a very long time before Israel allows any "guest workers" from whatever palestinian territory is adjacent to it.
Those workers were scouts gathering intelligence...nothing more.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (uSHSS)
And I hope that it is a very long time before Israel allows any "guest workers" from whatever palestinian territory is adjacent to it.
Those workers were scouts gathering intelligence...nothing more.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 12, 2023 01:44 PM (3Gtis)
240
Egypt is governed by a fragile military govt which is rightly afraid of a popular Islamic revolution. Jordan is similarly situated. They don't want, & will never voluntarily permit, an influx of Gazan refugees, for obvious reasons.
Neither Egypt nor Jordan fancies becoming the next Lebanon.
As for Israel identifying Palestinians with whom "it can work in the future": that's trickier than it appears. Said co-operators can't be perceived as Quislings, or why bother?
The Palestinian Authority in the West Bank is profoundly unpopular, from what I've read. I question whether turning Gaza over to them is a viable strategy, although European govts seem to like the idea.
In occupied western Germany, the Allies were very shrewd in pushing Adenauer's govt forward.
But Adenauers don't grow on trees. Israel can't just shove out somebody perceived as a traitor &/or an Israeli adz-kisser.
Neither Egypt nor Jordan fancies becoming the next Lebanon.
As for Israel identifying Palestinians with whom "it can work in the future": that's trickier than it appears. Said co-operators can't be perceived as Quislings, or why bother?
The Palestinian Authority in the West Bank is profoundly unpopular, from what I've read. I question whether turning Gaza over to them is a viable strategy, although European govts seem to like the idea.
In occupied western Germany, the Allies were very shrewd in pushing Adenauer's govt forward.
But Adenauers don't grow on trees. Israel can't just shove out somebody perceived as a traitor &/or an Israeli adz-kisser.
Posted by: KC Wolf (mnw) at November 12, 2023 01:45 PM (NLIak)
241
>>> We developed bunker buster bombs in the Iraq war. Some now as heavy as 30,000 lbs. They are guided so, precise. They probably use them some.
Posted by: javems
Old artillery tubes with some JDAM fins be good enough. Development is a test or two in the desert and if all checks out, go into production.
Posted by: javems
Old artillery tubes with some JDAM fins be good enough. Development is a test or two in the desert and if all checks out, go into production.
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at November 12, 2023 01:45 PM (cOq4q)
242
192 Plus, Hamas is on the defense, which historically enjoys a 3:1 advantage over the attacker, a figure that has remained remarkably constant over the centuries.
3 to 1 at the point of attack is the goal, not 3 to 1 overall.
Less if you can us arty first and then roll armor behind the infantry.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (aD39U)
I always liked to behind the armor.
3 to 1 at the point of attack is the goal, not 3 to 1 overall.
Less if you can us arty first and then roll armor behind the infantry.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 12, 2023 01:20 PM (aD39U)
I always liked to behind the armor.
Posted by: javems at November 12, 2023 01:46 PM (wYSuT)
243
Thanks for the very informative read.
Only thing missing is maps!
Posted by: Huck Follywood
Just like most of the 'important' and 'comprehensive' written tomes of important battles throughout history.
Thanks asshoe publishers!!
Only thing missing is maps!
Posted by: Huck Follywood
Just like most of the 'important' and 'comprehensive' written tomes of important battles throughout history.
Thanks asshoe publishers!!
Posted by: Tonypete at November 12, 2023 01:47 PM (e1mwr)
244
And I hope that it is a very long time before Israel allows any "guest workers" from whatever palestinian territory is adjacent to it.
Those workers were scouts gathering intelligence...nothing more.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 12, 2023 01:44 PM (3Gtis)
Israel has already begun talks with India to send construction workers in to replace the Palestinian laborers. Some of the trade unions in India are objecting to this for various reasons, so it remans to be seen if this will come about.
Those workers were scouts gathering intelligence...nothing more.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 12, 2023 01:44 PM (3Gtis)
Israel has already begun talks with India to send construction workers in to replace the Palestinian laborers. Some of the trade unions in India are objecting to this for various reasons, so it remans to be seen if this will come about.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 01:47 PM (S6gqv)
245
excellent info Thank you very much
Posted by: LMD outer banker at November 12, 2023 01:48 PM (4irMU)
246
A fun bit of info that has been mostly ignored - Egypt has moved a line of M-60 tanks (I didn't realize anyone still used those) to just below the Rafah crossing; but their stated purpose is to STOP any Palestinians from trying to breach the border and flee into Egypt. Other countries keep saying "why don't we just relocate these Palestinians to the Sinai?" and every time someone proposes that, the Egyptians say "not only no, but Oh HELL No!!!"
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:46 PM (S6gqv)
The M60 as a whole is obsolete. But it's relatively easy to maintain and still has an excellent gun that fuck up the enemy's day.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:46 PM (S6gqv)
The M60 as a whole is obsolete. But it's relatively easy to maintain and still has an excellent gun that fuck up the enemy's day.
Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at November 12, 2023 01:48 PM (BdMk6)
247
244 Israel has already begun talks with India to send construction workers in to replace the Palestinian laborers. Some of the trade unions in India are objecting to this for various reasons, so it remans to be seen if this will come about.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 01:47 PM (S6gqv)
Huh. Very cool.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 01:47 PM (S6gqv)
Huh. Very cool.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 01:48 PM (aWeTk)
248
Only thing missing is maps!
Posted by: Huck Follywood
Actually I used several to pull this together...but couldn't figure out which one to use.
Next time.
Posted by: Huck Follywood
Actually I used several to pull this together...but couldn't figure out which one to use.
Next time.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:49 PM (uSHSS)
249
https://www.americanthinker.com/islam is not a religion
https://tinyurl.com/4pmxt4ke
Posted by: Skip at November 12, 2023 06:08 AM
https://tinyurl.com/4pmxt4ke
Posted by: Skip at November 12, 2023 06:08 AM
Posted by: Skip at November 12, 2023 01:49 PM (fwDg9)
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 01:49 PM (S6gqv)
251
In the past the biggest constraint on the IDF has been Washington. Given the savagery and public method of attack by Hamas, the world has had to pause for a bit. Even DC. Biden is weak and I think Bibi can finesse him, and Blinkin, whenever he needs to. Further, the Israelis are doing this right. A declared war on a near-state actor. The rest of the world can bitch, but they will do nothing. Lastly, the Israelis are winning.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:33 PM (uSHSS)
===
Thank you.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 01:33 PM (uSHSS)
===
Thank you.
Posted by: San Franpsycho at November 12, 2023 01:51 PM (RIvkX)
252
*** golfclap***
Our accreditation as a “Smart Military Blog” has been updated for the year ‘23/‘24
Our accreditation as a “Smart Military Blog” has been updated for the year ‘23/‘24
Posted by: browndog,nursing a hangover at November 12, 2023 01:52 PM (TTAGa)
253
Israel has already begun talks with India to send construction workers in to replace the Palestinian laborers. Some of the trade unions in India are objecting to this for various reasons, so it remans to be seen if this will come about.
Posted by: Tom Servo
Philippines is huge export labor source. Just filter to make sure they are the Catholics and not Moros. They'd probably be more than happy to do the Holyland tour.
Posted by: Tom Servo
Philippines is huge export labor source. Just filter to make sure they are the Catholics and not Moros. They'd probably be more than happy to do the Holyland tour.
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at November 12, 2023 01:52 PM (cOq4q)
254
The M60 as a whole is obsolete. But it's relatively easy to maintain and still has an excellent gun that fuck up the enemy's day.
Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at November 12, 2023 01:48 PM (BdMk6)
A tank is only becomes obsolete, when it faces new armor... MOST Sherman's in WW2 never fired a single round, at another tank.
Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at November 12, 2023 01:48 PM (BdMk6)
A tank is only becomes obsolete, when it faces new armor... MOST Sherman's in WW2 never fired a single round, at another tank.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 12, 2023 01:55 PM (xaFKb)
255
I saw an aircraft fly from horizon to horizon in less than 12 minutes. That baby was fast!
At first I thought it was a missile from the contrail, but as it got overhead, it appeared to have twin turbines, very high altitude!
Things are ramping up!
At first I thought it was a missile from the contrail, but as it got overhead, it appeared to have twin turbines, very high altitude!
Things are ramping up!
Posted by: Dr. Bone at November 12, 2023 01:56 PM (PbTeh)
256
What form will the awful demonstrations take when the hamassians are crushed and dead or in prison, and Israel has declared a victory?
Will they continue ad nauseum?
Will they continue ad nauseum?
Posted by: Mr Gaga at November 12, 2023 01:57 PM (4ZE6o)
Posted by: Notorious BFD at November 12, 2023 01:57 PM (V8he0)
258
Look , if Russians are evacuating their people...they did the same before Bagdad fell.
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 01:59 PM (V13WU)
Posted by: Gref at November 12, 2023 02:00 PM (5fDan)
260
Five U.S. service members were confirmed to have died when their military aircraft crashed over the eastern Mediterranean Sea on Saturday morning during a routine training mission, military officials said Sunday.
the crash involved a helicopter.
Sigh
the crash involved a helicopter.
Sigh
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 12, 2023 02:01 PM (PQ4m2)
261
The Kingdom is similarly situated to Egypt & Jordan. Saudi Arabia has a yuuge, restive Shia underclass to worry about.
Turning now to a marginally related subject, it always infuriates me when people who don't know any better hold the Saudi GOVERNMENT responsible for 9/11. The ONLY thing on earth OBL would've liked to destroy even more than the WTC was the King of Saudi Arabia.
There were rogue elements in Saudi Arabia which helped AQ, but saying the Saudi regime was "in on" 9/11? That's like holding GWB responsible for the actions of Bill Ayers.
Turning now to a marginally related subject, it always infuriates me when people who don't know any better hold the Saudi GOVERNMENT responsible for 9/11. The ONLY thing on earth OBL would've liked to destroy even more than the WTC was the King of Saudi Arabia.
There were rogue elements in Saudi Arabia which helped AQ, but saying the Saudi regime was "in on" 9/11? That's like holding GWB responsible for the actions of Bill Ayers.
Posted by: mnw at November 12, 2023 02:01 PM (NLIak)
262
Maybe I'm naive, however if the dems push for pali immigration I believe it will destroy them in the 2024 election cycle. The Jewish support alone would crater.
Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at November 12, 2023 02:02 PM (2NHgQ)
263
Thank you Diogenes. This info is helpful in clearing some of the fog of war, for me.
Posted by: Gref at November 12, 2023 02:00 PM (5fDan)
***
Glad it was useful. But remember, war can generate more fog.
Posted by: Gref at November 12, 2023 02:00 PM (5fDan)
***
Glad it was useful. But remember, war can generate more fog.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 02:03 PM (uSHSS)
264
It's been a great thread.
Posted by: m at November 12, 2023 02:03 PM (aWeTk)
265
2024 is going to be lit !
Posted by: runner at November 12, 2023 02:05 PM (V13WU)
266
The Jewish support alone would crater.
Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at November 12, 2023 02:02 PM (2NHgQ)
Possibly.
Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at November 12, 2023 02:02 PM (2NHgQ)
Possibly.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 12, 2023 02:05 PM (3Gtis)
267
We HAVE A NOOD
Posted by: Skip at November 12, 2023 02:08 PM (fwDg9)
268
I hope this has been worthwhile for the horde. I was happy to share my thoughts.
Thank you all for the great input.
Thank you all for the great input.
Posted by: Diogenes at November 12, 2023 02:09 PM (uSHSS)
269
Wow, thank you, Diogenes.
Posted by: L - Can't make 'em love you more or hate you less. at November 12, 2023 02:10 PM (GshMh)
270
["Diogenes" has multiple graduate degrees with a focus on the Middle East, and an Army Intelligence Officer graduate of both the Army and USMC Command and Staff Colleges.]
Posted by: Open Blogger at 12:00 PM
Wait wait wait
So this really *is* a smart military blog?
Posted by: Open Blogger at 12:00 PM
Wait wait wait
So this really *is* a smart military blog?
Posted by: Darrell Harris at November 12, 2023 02:17 PM (qR4MA)
271
I hope this has been worthwhile for the horde. I was happy to share my thoughts.
Thank you all for the great input.
A very good post. Thanks and a tip of the hat to you.
Thank you all for the great input.
A very good post. Thanks and a tip of the hat to you.
Posted by: Notorious BFD at November 12, 2023 02:22 PM (V8he0)
272
If you don't understand how Science works just go scoop water only out of the deep end of a pool. The shallow end is unaffected.
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 01:33 PM (DxFDO)
----
I like that analogy, well done.
Posted by: Moron Robbie -The Clear Minded Nashville Tranny Shooter was not Deranged at November 12, 2023 01:33 PM (DxFDO)
----
I like that analogy, well done.
Posted by: Ciampino Equal opportunity offender at November 12, 2023 02:26 PM (qfLjt)
273
13. They damn well better NOT be considering taking in Pali refuse/gees into America. But how good are the odds Obama is whispering just that in Biden's wrinkled ear right now?
Posted by: Richard Sean McEnroe at November 12, 2023 02:56 PM (sx6WT)
274
30 Did they bring the torches?
Posted by: Richard Sean McEnroe at November 12, 2023 02:59 PM (sx6WT)
275
41 You can't trust Democrats to build a wall.
Posted by: Richard Sean McEnroe at November 12, 2023 03:02 PM (sx6WT)
276
54 well, Israel's data experts aren't spending their time surfing for Tik Tok tranny nudes...
Posted by: Richard Sean McEnroe at November 12, 2023 03:05 PM (sx6WT)
277
66 Israel's BEEN to Beirut...
Posted by: Richard Sean McEnroe at November 12, 2023 03:07 PM (sx6WT)
278
Israel has to capture and hold as many Hamas' family members as they can. Especially women and children. I don't see any other way in getting the hostages back except to trade them for something Hamas really wants (aside from all jews murdered). I immediately thought this when I heard they were taking numerous hostages this time. Probably directed by their Iranian advisors/suppliers.
Posted by: SamIam at November 12, 2023 03:34 PM (oasF3)
279
Very informative. Thank you, Diogenes.
Posted by: Buck Throckmorton at November 12, 2023 03:49 PM (jd2er)
280
Israel is well positioned to take care of herself. Hamas should be completely removed from Gaza by the IDF by all means necessary. American boys absolutely should not be called into general action.
I'm not supportive of special ops supporting the IDF as well since it'll likely escalate to regulars but that bridge has been crossed.
That said I believe you underestimate Hamas. Why? Your analysis of the Ukraine war was terrible.
Your analysis is fraught with wishful thinking. To name one: No one can be "experts" at tunnel warfare except through painful, deadly experience. Israel may have trained for this but to call them experts is wishful thinking.
I'm not supportive of special ops supporting the IDF as well since it'll likely escalate to regulars but that bridge has been crossed.
That said I believe you underestimate Hamas. Why? Your analysis of the Ukraine war was terrible.
Your analysis is fraught with wishful thinking. To name one: No one can be "experts" at tunnel warfare except through painful, deadly experience. Israel may have trained for this but to call them experts is wishful thinking.
Posted by: Mikeike at November 12, 2023 03:52 PM (tkcWC)
281
The key to modern tunnel warfare is time, intel and technology.
The comm limitations work both ways but with time IDF has more freedom of action.
The intel of tunnel entry points is primary and each discovery is a zero sum game that diminishes Hamas' capabilities for resupply, attack and communication.
The IDF will be writing the book on tactics using drones, robots and tunnel denial.
The comm limitations work both ways but with time IDF has more freedom of action.
The intel of tunnel entry points is primary and each discovery is a zero sum game that diminishes Hamas' capabilities for resupply, attack and communication.
The IDF will be writing the book on tactics using drones, robots and tunnel denial.
Posted by: Minuteman at November 12, 2023 06:20 PM (LaNzR)
282
Terrific summary, thank you!
Posted by: RM at November 12, 2023 06:20 PM (urbih)
283
This is hilarious - the Dem party nurtured and raised this monster, and are shocked that it's gotten off its leash. Posted by: Tom Servo at November 12, 2023 12:18 PM (S6gqv)
Willowed a long time ago and somewhat OT, but just woke up and checked the AOSHQ (I'm in the vicinity of the subject matter of this post). I've posted on this several times. The regular Democrats stealing the 2020 election set the Revolution back by at least a decade. They hate Biden and the regular Democrats. If the Revolution had its way, we'd be on year 7 of the hated OrangeMan, we'd have George Floyd type riots in the streets regularly, there would be urban guerrilla bombings, kidnappings, and bank robberies, and with any luck they would have had their Winter Palace moment by now, where troops fired into an "unarmed" crowd of protestors. Meanwhile, above the surface the Revolution would continue to be pushing for Green New Deal, Medicare for All, free college, housing as a civil right, and social/racial/economic "justice."
Willowed a long time ago and somewhat OT, but just woke up and checked the AOSHQ (I'm in the vicinity of the subject matter of this post). I've posted on this several times. The regular Democrats stealing the 2020 election set the Revolution back by at least a decade. They hate Biden and the regular Democrats. If the Revolution had its way, we'd be on year 7 of the hated OrangeMan, we'd have George Floyd type riots in the streets regularly, there would be urban guerrilla bombings, kidnappings, and bank robberies, and with any luck they would have had their Winter Palace moment by now, where troops fired into an "unarmed" crowd of protestors. Meanwhile, above the surface the Revolution would continue to be pushing for Green New Deal, Medicare for All, free college, housing as a civil right, and social/racial/economic "justice."
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at November 12, 2023 07:53 PM (DRclc)
284
Hamas is not the focus of Isreal, Iran is. Until Iran can be dealt with Isreal will never resolve its problems, and in the end this means defeat. Death by a thousand cuts. Just as America focused on the VC rather than recognize the war was directed from Hanoi and ultimately from Moscow, the war could not be won if energies were directed at the wrong objectives. If Hamas is destroyed will peace be achieved? As long as Israel refuses to go for the jugular by taking out Iran's economic ability to wage war; its political leadership; or its nuclear infrastructure with a clear warning of the next step to come, Israel will only be postponing the inevitable. The Obamaistas are all ready in power and Israel's support by the USA will not last forever as the dhimmies import million more jihaddies and left wing supporters.
Posted by: Jane at November 12, 2023 09:32 PM (EcD5Y)
285
Nice job, Diogenes
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at November 12, 2023 11:32 PM (xcxpd)
286
Marine Infantry here, good analysis, thank you
Posted by: Fenrisulven at November 13, 2023 03:55 AM (jR9Qx)
287
I slept at a Holiday Inn last night...
I'm worried about the propaganda. Twitter is a cesspool of anti- semitic marxists using fake outrage over Palestinian casualties to try and slow or handicap Israel's progress. it's almost become a virtue signal among the left, to show humanity toward Palestinians as if the atrocities of the sneak attack never occurred.
They also seem to be well funded. Maybe a dozen carnival barkers with megaphones on Twitters street corners. There is pushback but it feels lonely. maybe we're just overwhelmed on Twitter.
I'm worried about the propaganda. Twitter is a cesspool of anti- semitic marxists using fake outrage over Palestinian casualties to try and slow or handicap Israel's progress. it's almost become a virtue signal among the left, to show humanity toward Palestinians as if the atrocities of the sneak attack never occurred.
They also seem to be well funded. Maybe a dozen carnival barkers with megaphones on Twitters street corners. There is pushback but it feels lonely. maybe we're just overwhelmed on Twitter.
Posted by: Fenrisulven at November 13, 2023 04:15 AM (jR9Qx)
288
I've cut through some bs by showcasing a pic of a Palestinian boy I named Jamal. I start with the usual Sad Tale but any interest of fairness there's a reality twist lik
Jamal is crying because the constant Israeli attacks keep interrupting his lessons on how to sneak attack women and children.
Jamal is crying because the constant Israeli attacks keep interrupting his lessons on how to sneak attack women and children.
Posted by: Fenrisulven at November 13, 2023 04:24 AM (jR9Qx)
289
"I'm curious what you think about the possible expansion of this to a more general war, involving not just Iran but also Turkey and who knows who else."
Understand Palestinians are the Gypsies of the ME. No one really likes them. Many of the Royal Arab Families do not really consider Palestinians as Arabs.
Shia hate Sunni slightly less than they Palestinians and Jews.
Shia > Sunni > Pali > Jews --- Iran... Iran stays out other than rhetoric. Iran proxies will be a nuisance, but Iran and Shia will not have their final confrontation with the West until they have their bomb.
Hezbollah will not escalate too much, stays a nuisance.
Syria - same.
Erdogan's Turkey is a caliphate neo-ottoman wanna-be. True. But they wont pivot too far away from the EU without Arab broader support for Palestina. And that support does not exist outside the Liberal Left. Turkey is all bark.
Jordan and Egypt have both previously dealt with Palestinians and want nothing to do with them. Jordan border stays closed.
Egypt border is open for humanitarian aid only. Egypt may have a role in Gaza post war, as they traditionally and previously have controlled that area.
Understand Palestinians are the Gypsies of the ME. No one really likes them. Many of the Royal Arab Families do not really consider Palestinians as Arabs.
Shia hate Sunni slightly less than they Palestinians and Jews.
Shia > Sunni > Pali > Jews --- Iran... Iran stays out other than rhetoric. Iran proxies will be a nuisance, but Iran and Shia will not have their final confrontation with the West until they have their bomb.
Hezbollah will not escalate too much, stays a nuisance.
Syria - same.
Erdogan's Turkey is a caliphate neo-ottoman wanna-be. True. But they wont pivot too far away from the EU without Arab broader support for Palestina. And that support does not exist outside the Liberal Left. Turkey is all bark.
Jordan and Egypt have both previously dealt with Palestinians and want nothing to do with them. Jordan border stays closed.
Egypt border is open for humanitarian aid only. Egypt may have a role in Gaza post war, as they traditionally and previously have controlled that area.
Posted by: mossomo at November 13, 2023 09:49 AM (pky95)
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