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Sunday Morning Book Thread - 08-06-2023 ["Perfessor" Squirrel]
PIC NOTE
Just because it's cute. I get a kick out of animals posing as if they are reading a book. I caught a great pic of my own cat Penny doing something like that. She was featured as a Moron Pet some time ago. SERIES WITH MULTIPLE AUTHORS In this final installment about books in a series, let's talk about completed series that are written by multiple authors. I don't mean a series where each book it cowritten by a duo (or trio, in rare cases). Instead, each book is written by a different author and the series as a whole still makes narrative sense. Although it's possible that one or more authors may write multiple books in the series, such as the one discussed below.
(NOTE: The image of Clive Folliot on the cover dressed in a billowing cloak and wielding a sword is very reminiscent of Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion. This is not a coincidence.) I first encountered this style of writing in a rather obscure fantasy/science-fiction series called Philip Jose Farmer's The Dungeon, which contains six novels written by four different authors: Richard A. Lupoff, Bruce Coville, Charles de Lint, and Robin Wayne Bailey. Lupoff and de Lint each wrote two books in the series. Lupoff wrote Book 1, The Dark Tower and Book 6, The Final Battle. Farmer served as the editor and overseer of the production of this series. He also wrote the forward in each volume. Based on Farmer's forwards, it seems as though each author was given a lot of latitude in how he approached the story. Each author had to keep characters consistent from book to book, but they could introduce new characters and take the story in new and unexpected directions. Farmer himself didn't know what would happen in the later books as they were written. Richard Lupoff, as the author who both started and finished the series had to take all of the threads created by previous authors and try to tie them into a coherent and satisfying conclusion for the reader. This was a very tall task considering just how *weird* the story is. Seriously. It's one of the weirdest stories I've ever read, and I'm a huge fan of H.P. Lovecraft. The story follows the adventures of Clive Folliot, a reimagined pulp hero who is not too keen on the idea. His task is to find his brother Neville so that he can tell their father, Baron Tewkesbury if Neville is alive or dead. Clive's inheritance depends on the answer. He follows Neville's trail to the wilds of Tanzania, Africa, where he is sucked into a doorway that leads...somewhere else. The Dungeon is a multilayered alternate reality created by beings for reasons that are never fully explained. During Clive's journey through this bizarre landscape, he encounters many strange and unusual creatures from all over time and space, including his own multiple-times-granddaughter, a direct descendant of the lover he left behind in England in 1868. Other companions include a loyal and friendly dog-ape, the mysterious Indian Sidi Bombay who serves as a guide from time to time, a shape-shifting cyborg, an eight-foot-tall telepathic spider that throws poisonous spikes and who is in love with Clive, and Horace Hamilton Smythe who is Clive's former Quartermaster Sergeant from Clive's regiment. And that's just from the first book. The only way to escape the confines of the Dungeon is to go forward, plunging deeper and deeper into a world that refuses to yield up its mysteries without a fight. All Clive wants to do is to return to England in 1868 so he can marry the woman he loves, write his memoirs of his adventures, and retire in peace. Fate, it seems, does not share his idealism. Each author was encouraged NOT to try to emulate Farmer's style, but to bring their own unique voice to the tale, while attempting to capture the *spirit* of Farmer's worlds. On the whole, I think the authors did an admirable job of telling a weird tale, drawing upon not only the pulp fiction writers of the early twentieth century, but also upon authors such as Lewis Carroll, Frank L. Baum, and Dante Alighieri, as there are numerous allusions and references to Wonderland, Oz, and, of course, Dante's Inferno. In fact, the fourth layer of the Dungeon is directly taken from Inferno. I have a few other series in my library that are written by multiple authors, but The Dungeon has left a firm impression on my mind, even though I haven't read it for decades. Now that I'm re-reading it, I can appreciate the allusions and references to other literary sources because of the knowledge and wisdom I've accumulated over the years. I can even use Google maps to trace Clive's journey through Africa, which would have been more difficult in the pre-internet days when this was written (late 1980s). Anyway, this concludes the series of posts about series of books. We'll move onto another topic next week...I'm thinking nonfiction...
(HT: nurse ratched)
grammie winger made an interesting comment last week:
I feel inadequate reading the Book Thread. So many people reading so many consequential books. Books that teach things. Books that enlighten. Me? I read junk for pleasure. I don't learn anything. For example, this week I read 2 Lincoln Lawyer books by Michael Connelly. They were fun. The end. Posted by: grammie winger - I don't belong here at July 30, 2023 10:47 AM (45fpk)
Because the Moron Horde is awesome, numerous folks sent encouragement to grammie winger, but I think Jim Sunk New Dawn's reply is the best:
Comment: From my own perspective, I find that you can learn amazing lessons from most books if you are willing to open yourself up to that possibility. Granted, there are books that are kind of worthless, but considering the sheer volume of books out there, that's only to be expected. I find that "pulp" authors have suprising depths to them, no doubt due to their own extensive reading habits. They wrote lots of stories published in cheap magazines, but they were also highly educated writers, having consumed a vast quantity of classical literature in their schooling, as well as diving into their local libraries for more reading material. Remember, back in those days libraries were NOT the bastions of "wokeness" that we have today. Consider the series I'm currently reading. Philip Jose Farmer writes an introduction to each book of the series where he talks about his own reading habits, which include works by authors such as Jonathan Swift, Robert Louis Stevenson, Jules Verne, H.G. Wells, Homer, John Milton, and much, much more. He then took all of these ideas from previous generations and mixed them up in his head to craft his unique blend of stories. Farmer seems to have been enamored of Sir Richard Burton, as he features as a prominent character in the Riverworld saga and is referred to numerous times in The Dungeon series. Never think that your reading material is "inconsequential." If it's consequential to YOU, that matters. If you feel like reading Mary Sue fan fiction while listening to Yoko Ono albums and eating French toast slathered in syrup, go for it! MORON RECOMMENDATIONS
On the lowbrow side of things (what else would you expect from the likes of me?), Louis L'Amour's series on the Sackett family constitutes an entire library of a Series within a Series by that author. Taking L'Amour seriously though, I think he was a giant in the field of Life's Moral Lessons as told through plot, character, action and design. Added a LOT to how I came to form the who and what of I became of a man, given the absence of a father in the home, from the 4th grade, on. Plus, I learned how to actively observe and SEE the world around me, in granular detail, situational awareness, and much outdoorsmanship, even before m first backpacking forays into the forests and trails. Don't discount the "lightweight" or the pulp as universal tripe. Yeah, L'Amour did wax formulaic, as any bookish yoot would soon suss out. But still, he was wordsmith enough to hold one's attention. You could see the worlds as he described them, quite clearly, indeed. Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX
Comment: One of the faculty I've worked with in the past is an expert in game theory. It's one of his primary research areas in computer science. "The Prisoner's Dilemma" is probably one of the more famous game theory scenarios. There's a lot of psychology involved in human-to-human interactions so that you come out ahead in any scenario. For example, that classic scene in The Princess Bride where Vezzini and The Man in Black play a game for the freedom of Princess Buttercup shows game theory in action as Vezzini attempts to divine the location of the poison among two cups.
Working my way through: The Art of Strategy: A Game Theorist's Guide to Success in Business and Life by Avinash K. Dixit and Barry J. J. Nalebuff. Game theory is a fancy word for interactive decision making between multiple participants. The book has academic flavor in places but only where needed to illustrate different decisions and outcomes. My theory that good decision-making is a broadly applicable mental muscle skill. Posted by: TRex at July 30, 2023 09:30 AM (IQ6Gq)
Comment: We take modern communications for granted, but in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, it was A LOT harder to get messages from point A to point B. Especially if you were traveling in unexplored regions of the world. I can imagine a newspaper sponsoring trips to far off exotic lands so that they can sell those stories to the locals. In Philip Jose Farmer's Dungeon series, the protagonist's fictional expedition to darkest Africa was partly funded by an obscure London newspaper that would receive updates from the expedition. The weirdest part was that once Clive Folliot disappeared from Earth, captured by the mysterious rulers of the Dungeon, the newspaper continued to receive dispatches with sketches from Clive's journal. No explanation is given as to how that happens--only a mysterious note in Clive's handwriting accompanies the packet of sketches.
Good morning, bibliophiles! This week I'm reading Battle of Ink and Ice: A Sensational Story of News Barons, North Pole Explorers, and the Making of Modern Media by Darrell Hartman. I'm only a third of the way in, but it's a fascinating history of the rise of the dailies and the personalities behind them, and how they bankrolled explorers (f'rinstance I didn't know Stanley was backed by the Herald -- no geographical society was willing to help find Livingstone). It blows my mind, in this era of instantaneous communications, that explorers like Cook and Perry might not be heard from in two years while trekking. Posted by: All Hail Eris at July 30, 2023 09:35 AM (Z/H3L)
Comment: I'd say at this point it's highly likely that the U.S. Government was involved in Silkwood's death in some way. We already know, thanks to the shenanigans of the Clintons and the Bidens, just how far organs of the government will go to protect themselves. The nuclear power industry seems tailor-made for the government going to extreme lengths to cover up shady events, even as politicians sell nuclear secrets to the highest bidder. More Moron-recommended reading material can be found HERE! (907 Moron-recommended books so far!)
I just finished reading The Killing of Karen Silkwood by Richard Rashke. It was published in '81 following the court case that ended in '79 vindicating Karen Silkwood's involvement in her own contamination of plutonium while am employee of the powerful Kerr-McGee. Most people are familiar with the story of Karen Silkwood from the movie, and the book does have parallels that are pretty accurately portrayed in the movie with some exceptions. The book focused less on Karen's personal life and instead shined a light on the court matters surrounding her posthumous lawsuit (brought by her family). What I truly found most shocking was the coordinated coverup (insinuated, but there is strong evidence to support it, imo) between Kerr-McGee, the Oklahoma PD, the FBI and the CIA. Since the Federal Gov't had a huge stake in the nuclear industry, all avenues were utilized to thwart her exposing one of the top US plants processing plutonium for reckless and highly dangerous practices. Her death still remains unsolved, but I fully believe she was run off the road and killed. Damning docs in her car were never found, though others saw them in her possession prior to her accident. Posted by: Lady in Black at July 30, 2023 09:36 AM (mupln)
- Gideon Crew Book 2 - Gideon's Corpse by Douglas Preston & Lincoln Child
- Gideon Crew Book 3 - The Lost Island by Douglas Preston & Lincoln Child
- Gideon Crew Book 4 - Beyond the Ice Limit by Douglas Preston & Lincoln Child
- Nora Kelly Book 1 - Old Bones by Douglas Preston & Lincoln Child
- Nora Kelly Book 2 - The Scorpion's Tail by Douglas Preston & Lincoln Child
- Nora Kelly Book 3 - Diablo Mesa by Douglas Preston & Lincoln Child
- Reliquary by Douglas Preston & Lincoln Child -- A wealthy socialite is murdered under mysterious circumstances, along with numerous homeless among NYC's underground mole people.
- Gideon's Sword by Douglas Preston & Lincoln Child -- The first book in the Gideon Crew series finds Gideon enmeshed in a race to find a Chinese defector's secrets before the Chinese operative does. And there's a duel with backhoes. Seriously. It's as awesome as it sounds
- The Dungeon Book 1 - The Black Tower by Richard A. Lupoff -- Clive Folliot, second son of the Baron of Tewkesbury, is sent off to find his slightly older twin brother Neville, who disappeared in Africa while searching for the headwaters of the Nile River. Clive is sucked into a strange world ruled by even stranger beings and powers. He must now escape the enigmatic Dungeon even as he continues to follow his brother Neville's trail...
- Gideon's Corpse by Douglas Preston & Lincoln Child -- Gideon Crew must stop Islamic terrorists from detonating a nuclear weapon in the next ten days...
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
Good morning fellow Book Threadists. I hope everyone had a great week of reading.
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 08:59 AM (7EjX1)
2
hiya
Posted by: JT at August 06, 2023 08:59 AM (T4tVD)
3
Sending you an e-mail in a minute, Perfessor.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 09:00 AM (Angsy)
4
Tolle Lege
1/2 through Patrick O'Brian 100 days
1/2 through Patrick O'Brian 100 days
Posted by: Skip at August 06, 2023 09:00 AM (MOY79)
Posted by: JT at August 06, 2023 09:01 AM (T4tVD)
6
Caption for the top picture: The Definitive Guide to Cap Napping
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at August 06, 2023 09:01 AM (PiwSw)
7
Cat grrrr
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at August 06, 2023 09:01 AM (PiwSw)
8
Good morning book threadists.
Posted by: Tonypete at August 06, 2023 09:02 AM (WSTFK)
9
"If you feel like reading Mary Sue fan fiction while listening to Yoko Ono albums and eating French toast slathered in syrup, go for it!"
Have you been spying on me?
Have you been spying on me?
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at August 06, 2023 09:02 AM (OX9vb)
10
FINALLY !
A pants guy that owns a weedwhacker !
Posted by: JT at August 06, 2023 09:01 AM (T4tVD)
---
Just for you, buddy!
A pants guy that owns a weedwhacker !
Posted by: JT at August 06, 2023 09:01 AM (T4tVD)
---
Just for you, buddy!
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at August 06, 2023 09:02 AM (BpYfr)
11
The only reading accomplished this week was proofing policy and procedure manuals for our Parish.
Just shoot me.
Just shoot me.
Posted by: Tonypete at August 06, 2023 09:03 AM (WSTFK)
12
Might interest other fans of Patrick O'Brian Aubrey/ Maturin series, how he came up with Jack's ships
https://www.ctbasses.com/misc/BruceTrinque/
https://www.ctbasses.com/misc/BruceTrinque/
Posted by: Skip at August 06, 2023 09:04 AM (MOY79)
13
Good morning again morons
JT a prayer for a complete and speedy recovery
"Higher learning" refers both to my level of intoxication and that it was far far superior to University of Oregon.
JT a prayer for a complete and speedy recovery
"Higher learning" refers both to my level of intoxication and that it was far far superior to University of Oregon.
Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 06, 2023 09:05 AM (JvZF+)
14
For military aviation enthusiasts, this online auction may be interesting. Lots of books signed by the author.
https://is.gd/iZ2pGU
https://is.gd/iZ2pGU
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at August 06, 2023 09:05 AM (PiwSw)
15
Wow that cat is cute - so were the kittehs in yesterday's pet thread. Gorgeous animals.
Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 06, 2023 09:05 AM (JvZF+)
16
I actually have a set of shin protectors like in the 'these pants' photo. As I age the skin over my lower legs has become very thin and needs protection from bumps while doing heavy work. But at least they aren't a fashion statement.
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 09:05 AM (7EjX1)
17
I'm going to be re-reading my home canning manuals later. Canning season is upon me, and I am not ready. But the produce is very ready.
In the meantime, I have been enjoying short stories in Columbus Noir, and may get some more of these (Insert City Here) Noir collections.
In the meantime, I have been enjoying short stories in Columbus Noir, and may get some more of these (Insert City Here) Noir collections.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at August 06, 2023 09:06 AM (OX9vb)
18
It was a good week for used books. A paperback copy of The Count of Monte Cristo with the Donald Frame translation just crying out for notes and marginalia. An Illustrated collection of Shakespeare's sonnets. A hardcover edition of Carroll's The Hunting of the Snark with original illustrations and annotated by Martin Gardner. A Finer Tone is Wasserman's analysis of John Keats major works. The Complete poetry of Kipling and selections of Robert Service poems. Finally, the Oxford edition of Tennyson's works, both poetry and prose. For about twenty dollars that's a LOT of pleasurable reading.
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 09:07 AM (7EjX1)
19
FINALLY !
A pants guy that owns a weedwhacker !
Posted by: JT at August 06, 2023 09:01 AM (T4tVD)
---
Just for you, buddy!
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel
Thanks ! And thanks for the Book Thread !
A pants guy that owns a weedwhacker !
Posted by: JT at August 06, 2023 09:01 AM (T4tVD)
---
Just for you, buddy!
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel
Thanks ! And thanks for the Book Thread !
Posted by: JT at August 06, 2023 09:07 AM (T4tVD)
20
Morning horde. I'm still recovering from the ONT...
Posted by: TRex at August 06, 2023 09:07 AM (IQ6Gq)
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 09:08 AM (Angsy)
22
Sadly, yesterday I began the final book (21) in Patrick O'Brian's 'Master and Commander' series. It isn't actually a book in the usual sense, as he never completed it.
I almost decided to not read it, as the unfinished tale will certainly be difficult to accept.
I almost decided to not read it, as the unfinished tale will certainly be difficult to accept.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 06, 2023 09:08 AM (0v4YR)
23
I am reading Cline's book about the Bronze Age collapse. I am amazed at how much stuff survived and how there is nothing comparable in North America. South of the Rio, yes, north, not so much
Posted by: Jamaica NYC at August 06, 2023 09:08 AM (Eeb9P)
24
Love the photo of Penny absorbing the wisdom of the ages through her whiskers.
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 09:09 AM (7EjX1)
25
Good morning, my pretty Hordelings!
Those cartoons are highly accurate. Of course all the world is a series of surfaces for a cat to loll on, but printed materials are especially attractive-- and if it disrupts a human's reading pleasure, all the better. Pay attention to me, house monkey!
Those cartoons are highly accurate. Of course all the world is a series of surfaces for a cat to loll on, but printed materials are especially attractive-- and if it disrupts a human's reading pleasure, all the better. Pay attention to me, house monkey!
Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 06, 2023 09:09 AM (i4tOF)
26
>>Don't discount the "lightweight" or the pulp as universal tripe. Yeah, L'Amour did wax formulaic, as any bookish yoot would soon suss out. But still, he was wordsmith enough to hold one's attention. You could see the worlds as he described them, quite clearly, indeed.
Well said, Grammie and Jim!
I like to read inconsequential books, too. Read most of the Dick Francis books when I was a teen (always someone getting killed around horses) and one of the pleasures was his vocabulary - introduced me to fun new works like "flummoxed."
Well said, Grammie and Jim!
I like to read inconsequential books, too. Read most of the Dick Francis books when I was a teen (always someone getting killed around horses) and one of the pleasures was his vocabulary - introduced me to fun new works like "flummoxed."
Posted by: Lizzy at August 06, 2023 09:10 AM (avru5)
27
What is the TR quote?
“Personally, the books by which I have profited infinitely more than by any others have been those in which profit was a by-product of the pleasure; that is, I read them because I enjoyed them, because I liked reading them, and the profit came in as part of the enjoyment.”
Jeez, That is a tortured way to put it, Teddy. He is essentially saying 'I read primarily because I enjoy the book.'
Read what you like.
“Personally, the books by which I have profited infinitely more than by any others have been those in which profit was a by-product of the pleasure; that is, I read them because I enjoyed them, because I liked reading them, and the profit came in as part of the enjoyment.”
Jeez, That is a tortured way to put it, Teddy. He is essentially saying 'I read primarily because I enjoy the book.'
Read what you like.
Posted by: Stepford Wives at August 06, 2023 09:10 AM (zZu0s)
28
Morning, bookish folken! A good morning to be indoors here, as it's hot. (So what else is new. . . .)
I've finished another "cozy" mystery, A Catered Book Club Murder by Isis Crawford. Cozies ain't for me, as I grew up with Carr, Queen, Stout, and Christie, *real* mystery tale-spinners. The writing here is pedestrian, with far too many "said-isms," and while there is an actual plot, it tends to get lost by the heroines' constant detailing of what they are eating. The "comic" dialogue is not funny. And the detective heroines solve the mystery, so to speak, with a good dose of chance on their side; they don't figure out the killer's identity until he makes a move at the climax. I'm done with this genre.
I've finished another "cozy" mystery, A Catered Book Club Murder by Isis Crawford. Cozies ain't for me, as I grew up with Carr, Queen, Stout, and Christie, *real* mystery tale-spinners. The writing here is pedestrian, with far too many "said-isms," and while there is an actual plot, it tends to get lost by the heroines' constant detailing of what they are eating. The "comic" dialogue is not funny. And the detective heroines solve the mystery, so to speak, with a good dose of chance on their side; they don't figure out the killer's identity until he makes a move at the climax. I'm done with this genre.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 09:11 AM (omVj0)
29
In this final installment about books in a series, let's talk about completed series that are written by multiple authors.
==
I think this is a very modern phenomenon. I can't think of any series of the 19th or even 20th centuries given to multiple authors to extend it's life. "they" , publishing companies, are trying to take over past series, like Sherlock Holmes, and "add on" - The Enola Holmes Mysteries.
==
I think this is a very modern phenomenon. I can't think of any series of the 19th or even 20th centuries given to multiple authors to extend it's life. "they" , publishing companies, are trying to take over past series, like Sherlock Holmes, and "add on" - The Enola Holmes Mysteries.
Posted by: runner at August 06, 2023 09:11 AM (V13WU)
30
Thanks to Prof and Pope, I've come across a trove of If magazine on the Internet Archive. (I should kick in another donation to that outfit.) This will add life to my lunch breaks; the computer at work is much better than what I have at home. I have yet to find the Retief stories, but I'm in no rush. My thanks again to both of you.
At home, I spent the week with the boys in the brownstone, home to Nero Wolfe, in "Before Midnight." It's still a welcoming place.
One gag: A secondary character works for Clock magazine, published by Mr. Tite. Remember that this was penned in the 1950s, and think about it.
At home, I spent the week with the boys in the brownstone, home to Nero Wolfe, in "Before Midnight." It's still a welcoming place.
One gag: A secondary character works for Clock magazine, published by Mr. Tite. Remember that this was penned in the 1950s, and think about it.
Posted by: Weak Geek at August 06, 2023 09:11 AM (p/isN)
31
/off Stepford sock
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 09:12 AM (zZu0s)
32
Big news for fans of prepper dystopian fiction -- William Forstchen's latest sequel to "One Minute After", "Five Years After", is coming out August 22nd.
Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 06, 2023 09:13 AM (i4tOF)
33
I haven't been doing much reading this week, but I did give up trying to read a book by Bellamy Partridge, who had been a war correspondent in WWI and later wrote for Sunset magazine (per the jacket cover), but his just-folks history of the Auctioneer and His Trade is not exciting.
I gave up and started reading Gaudy Night by Dorothy Sayers instead.
I gave up and started reading Gaudy Night by Dorothy Sayers instead.
Posted by: Kindltot at August 06, 2023 09:13 AM (xhaym)
34
The novel I'm reading now is Colleen McCullough's On, Off, a serial killer novel set in Connecticut in 1965. Kind of early to tell if I'm going to love or even like it. The premise is intriguing and I like the idea of setting the story in '65 before the term "serial killer" was even coined. This may allow her cop hero to track down the killer without all the CSI-style tech of today.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 09:13 AM (omVj0)
35
L'Amour -- haven't read a lot of his stuff (Hondo, Conagher, a few others), but if you're into self-criticism re: your reading, just check out his autobiographical book Education of a Wandering Man. At the end of that one he has a list of books he read over a period of a year or two (if memory serves -- maybe it was longer). It's quite a list.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 06, 2023 09:13 AM (a/4+U)
36
What? The FBI and the CIA conspired to cover up a crime, you say? Unpossible!
Posted by: Dr. T at August 06, 2023 09:14 AM (m9hmt)
37
OT: ewetub ad for Beshear saying how Beshear has teacher's backs.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 09:15 AM (zZu0s)
38
I read The Second World Wars, by V.D. Hanson. It's a history of the war(s), but with a bit of a twist, in that it isn't a chronological recitation of what happened, but more a collection of topics, especially the relative productivity of the various participants.
VDH seems to think that the Russian defeat of the Germans was almost inevitable based on their productivity and prewar weapons buildup, but I strongly disagree.
In general, the book was pretty good, providing some previously unknown nuggets, but perhaps because there's just so much already known, it didn't really blow my socks off. VDH is fond of alluding to classical parallels, which isn't surprising given his background, but I found many of them to be sort of rote and uninformative. Also, it really needed a copy editor, because there were numerous errors and repetitions.
VDH seems to think that the Russian defeat of the Germans was almost inevitable based on their productivity and prewar weapons buildup, but I strongly disagree.
In general, the book was pretty good, providing some previously unknown nuggets, but perhaps because there's just so much already known, it didn't really blow my socks off. VDH is fond of alluding to classical parallels, which isn't surprising given his background, but I found many of them to be sort of rote and uninformative. Also, it really needed a copy editor, because there were numerous errors and repetitions.
Posted by: Archimedes at August 06, 2023 09:15 AM (eOEVl)
39
"Best of all, the [Kwajalein] locals were used to things being blown up and were perhaps more accepting of a group of unproven twentysomethings and a dot-com millionaire appearing on the scene with a big metal tube full of liquid explosives and crossed fingers." -- "When the Heavens Went On Sale" by Ashlee Vance
The book begins with SpaceX's string of failures before its successful launch of the Falcon 1 in 2008. But it isn't about Elon Musk, it's about the small players who fill in the gap left by Musk when he decided to focus on heavy rocketry and human space flight. Small companies like Planet Labs, Rocket Lab, Astra, and Firefly are fighting against the trends of decades-old zero-defects culture and the elephantine bulk of regulations, codes, and procedures that grew every time something went wrong.
There's a big chunk on Pete Worden, the Air Force general and general gadfly who refashioned NASA Ames into Silicon Valley scientific hotspot.
The book begins with SpaceX's string of failures before its successful launch of the Falcon 1 in 2008. But it isn't about Elon Musk, it's about the small players who fill in the gap left by Musk when he decided to focus on heavy rocketry and human space flight. Small companies like Planet Labs, Rocket Lab, Astra, and Firefly are fighting against the trends of decades-old zero-defects culture and the elephantine bulk of regulations, codes, and procedures that grew every time something went wrong.
There's a big chunk on Pete Worden, the Air Force general and general gadfly who refashioned NASA Ames into Silicon Valley scientific hotspot.
Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 06, 2023 09:16 AM (i4tOF)
40
One gag: A secondary character works for Clock magazine, published by Mr. Tite. Remember that this was penned in the 1950s, and think about it.
Posted by: Weak Geek at August 06, 2023
***
That sort of thing is what brings me back to reread Rex Stout every year. I didn't get that gag when I read the novel at age 14 or so. A decade or so back, I picked it up again, and boom! there it was.
Posted by: Weak Geek at August 06, 2023
***
That sort of thing is what brings me back to reread Rex Stout every year. I didn't get that gag when I read the novel at age 14 or so. A decade or so back, I picked it up again, and boom! there it was.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 09:17 AM (omVj0)
41
I am reading "The Siege of Krishnapur" by J.G. Farrell, which is a novel set in India at the time of the Great Mutiny and told from the POV of the British residents living in an isolated outpost in Northern India. I'm not far into it so haven't yet formed an opinion, but Farrell is very good at invoking the desolation and boredom in these colonial outposts. And the heat - all these Brits sweltering in their uniforms, frock coats and long dresses. And no deodorant or AC.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023 09:18 AM (HabA/)
42
Big news for fans of prepper dystopian fiction -- William Forstchen's latest sequel to "One Minute After", "Five Years After", is coming out August 22nd.
Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 06, 2023 09:13 AM (i4tOF)
Interesting. I read the first three books and liked them all, though the last one strained credulity in a few places. I'll be curious to see where Forstchen takes things.
Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 06, 2023 09:13 AM (i4tOF)
Interesting. I read the first three books and liked them all, though the last one strained credulity in a few places. I'll be curious to see where Forstchen takes things.
Posted by: Dr. T at August 06, 2023 09:19 AM (m9hmt)
43
Mike Hammer I know there are books after 100 days which is the end of the Napoleonic wars. Possible further books still can be about exploring or fighting pirates but thinking I won't go further.
Good idea?
Good idea?
Posted by: Skip at August 06, 2023 09:19 AM (MOY79)
44
Great great write-up Perfesser. That series by multiple authors sounds fantastic. I'll read it next.
Thanks to I think Sharkman, I just finished the first Galaxy's Edge book. Very cool. Enjoyed it.
I think I've asked before but what are ppl's thoughts on reading order for series: chronological or publication.
I first came across this issue wrt another AoS reccomendation: Druss.
I did chronological and it worked but there were noticeable stylistic and other differences btwn the books that I think would not have been noticeable if I had read the series by publication order.
The issue also presents itself in the Galaxy's edge series. Interestingly, the authors discuss it in the Notes at the end of book one.
Thanks to I think Sharkman, I just finished the first Galaxy's Edge book. Very cool. Enjoyed it.
I think I've asked before but what are ppl's thoughts on reading order for series: chronological or publication.
I first came across this issue wrt another AoS reccomendation: Druss.
I did chronological and it worked but there were noticeable stylistic and other differences btwn the books that I think would not have been noticeable if I had read the series by publication order.
The issue also presents itself in the Galaxy's edge series. Interestingly, the authors discuss it in the Notes at the end of book one.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 09:19 AM (7epFj)
45
My family is obsessed with J.D Vance books, and amidst the each murder mystery you learn about all sorts of things, including the wonderful area they're set in - Bisbee, AZ. And was there anyone better than Tony Hillerman for immersing yourself in a foreign culture right here in America's Southwest? You just assume he's a Native American, as he was so wonderful at describing their way of life, religion, etc.. The AMC tv show based on his books is decent - about time someone picked up on those stories!
Posted by: Lizzy at August 06, 2023 09:19 AM (avru5)
46
among others, i finished the latest Nathan Lowell book, the last (?) in the Marva Collins series. It was somewhat disappointing. His main character apparently learned nothing from his past and the thread that runs through it about potentially resolving/exploding a societal development problem was never addressed. OTOH, it gives a path forward if he wants another direction to head out on.
Still, i'm hoping he goes for finishing his Wizard's Cat book, which he's said has been in progress for a while.
on the not so lighter side, I'm slowing working my way through Charles Taylor's Secular Age and Stephen Hick's Explaining Post-Modernism.
Still, i'm hoping he goes for finishing his Wizard's Cat book, which he's said has been in progress for a while.
on the not so lighter side, I'm slowing working my way through Charles Taylor's Secular Age and Stephen Hick's Explaining Post-Modernism.
Posted by: yara at August 06, 2023 09:19 AM (xr64u)
47
I likeVance's writing style, so I checked out his biography of Elon Musk. The version available was the one adapted for young readers -- hey, I'm no ageist snob!
#AintNoShame
Also, who names a boy Ashlee? That's practically a stripper name. Although, does anybody remember the epigrammatic wit of Ashleigh Brilliant?
#AintNoShame
Also, who names a boy Ashlee? That's practically a stripper name. Although, does anybody remember the epigrammatic wit of Ashleigh Brilliant?
Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 06, 2023 09:19 AM (i4tOF)
48
Quick note: the dog-ape is a very old and esoteric idea. It goes back to at least Egypt. Lafferty has them in his books and calls them "plappergeists".
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 09:20 AM (7epFj)
49
Love the photo of Penny absorbing the wisdom of the ages through her whiskers.
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 09:09 AM (7EjX1)
---
Not Penny...just a random pic off the interwebz...
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 09:09 AM (7EjX1)
---
Not Penny...just a random pic off the interwebz...
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at August 06, 2023 09:21 AM (BpYfr)
50
hen it comes to fiction books that frequently draw me back for re-reading with effective, quality writing and entertaining stories, I keep coming up with authors from the 19th century. Just off the top of my head that includes Dumas (with the right translation), Melville, Jules Verne (with the right translation), Tennyson, Twain, H. Rider Haggard, George MacDonald, Lewis Carroll, Coleridge, Charles Dickens (in some cases but not all), Kipling, Robert Service, William Gilmore Simms, and Poe. No doubr others would occur to me with more time. These authors constitute a huge collection of creativity, novelty, humor and poignancy.
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 09:23 AM (7EjX1)
51
As for a series written by multiple authors, my first thought is the Man From U.N.C.L.E. Ace paperback originals penned between 1965 and 1969 while the show was on TV. Each author had to use the background and main characters of the show, of course. But the stories were originals, and the authors -- some of whom knew each other from SF fandom -- referred to events in each others' novels, or picked up on others' ideas and ran with them. For instance, two writers came up with an invisibility screen (in an unfortunately silly book -- rare in the series), so the acknowledged leader of the Ace writers, David McDaniel, seized on it. He had the Command labs working with the technology to invent a personal invisibility screen that could be worn by a single agent. Things like that.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 09:24 AM (omVj0)
52
Yay book thread! I'm still working my way through the Max Saunders' mammoth biography of Ford Madox Ford, and it occurred to me that folks may be wondering why I'm willing to put up with a multi-volume biography of an author most people have never heard of.
So here goes...
First and foremost, Ford had a messy, and therefore interesting, life. Though he grew up in Victorian England, he could not abide within its social structures, and did all manner of crazy things. He eloped with his (underage) wife, became Catholic, and skipped higher education to go straight into writing. He then cheated on his wife, tried to get her divorce him, may have slept with her sister...and that's the just the beginning.
Contrast that with J.R.R. Tolkien, who led a pretty exemplary personal life, marrying the love of his life, staying loyal to her and raising adoring, well-adjusted children. To put it another way, while one could write 1,000 pages on Tolkien's writings, his personal life was dull.
(con't)
So here goes...
First and foremost, Ford had a messy, and therefore interesting, life. Though he grew up in Victorian England, he could not abide within its social structures, and did all manner of crazy things. He eloped with his (underage) wife, became Catholic, and skipped higher education to go straight into writing. He then cheated on his wife, tried to get her divorce him, may have slept with her sister...and that's the just the beginning.
Contrast that with J.R.R. Tolkien, who led a pretty exemplary personal life, marrying the love of his life, staying loyal to her and raising adoring, well-adjusted children. To put it another way, while one could write 1,000 pages on Tolkien's writings, his personal life was dull.
(con't)
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 09:24 AM (llXky)
53
You know how much I liked "The Secret Book of Flora Lea". Well, I'm reading another by Patti Callahan Henry called "Once Upon A Wardrobe". It's about a college girl (Oxford, 1950's), Megs, whose invalid younger brother George is obsessed with a new book: "The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe". He begs his sister to find out where Narnia came from, since it feels so real.
C.S. Lewis is an instructor at Oxford, and Megs overcomes her reticence and follows him home. "Jack" and his brother Warren never tell her directly whence Narnia sprang, but they do spin stories of their youth and their invented world of Boxen.
You can see where Lewis got the inspiration for Cair Paravel, and that horrid New School where Eustace and Jill hid from bullies, and the sad sick room where Digory's mother wasted away.
C.S. Lewis is an instructor at Oxford, and Megs overcomes her reticence and follows him home. "Jack" and his brother Warren never tell her directly whence Narnia sprang, but they do spin stories of their youth and their invented world of Boxen.
You can see where Lewis got the inspiration for Cair Paravel, and that horrid New School where Eustace and Jill hid from bullies, and the sad sick room where Digory's mother wasted away.
Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 06, 2023 09:25 AM (i4tOF)
54
soon AI will serialize Dumas , Dickens, Jules Verne and Doyle
Posted by: runner at August 06, 2023 09:27 AM (V13WU)
55
Just started reading 'July 1914 Countdown to War' by Sean McMeekin.
I thinking about getting a copy of Hew Strachan's work on WWI.
I thinking about getting a copy of Hew Strachan's work on WWI.
Posted by: dantesed at August 06, 2023 09:29 AM (88xKn)
56
As to series by divers hands, I can think of a lot of older examples: all the Stratemeyer Syndicate series (Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, Tom Swift, etc.) were written by various people using a house name. The Oz series was continued after Baum's death by various authors, all credited under their own names -- Ruth Plumly Thompson did a lot of them, but Baum's son did a few, as did the artist John R. Neill. I don't know if any of them are any good.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 09:30 AM (QZxDR)
57
These authors constitute a huge collection of creativity, novelty, humor and poignancy.
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 09:23 AM (7EjX1)
They were also writing for adults with a presumed level of literacy and familiarity with their own culture. They could see all the allusions and understand them.
We don't have that level of sophistication in our society today.
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 09:23 AM (7EjX1)
They were also writing for adults with a presumed level of literacy and familiarity with their own culture. They could see all the allusions and understand them.
We don't have that level of sophistication in our society today.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 09:30 AM (Angsy)
58
(cont)
This brings me to the second reason I'm reading the book: I find the backstory on books fascinating. There are a lot of authors (or aspiring ones) on this thread, and finding out "the story behind the story" is really interesting to me.
I've long said that people write what they know, and Ford was a world-authority on complex relationships. Passion, lust, betrayal, remorse, flouting convention - this was his life and he poured it into his work.
When he went to war in 1916, he also added that to his body of knowledge. He technically was never a front-line soldier, but his work in the support services sent him back and forth through the trenches and he came under intense bombardments and actually was "blown up" by a shell that flung him around but did not otherwise wound him. He was severely concussed, forgot who he was for days, and this brought intense questions of identity into his work.
Indeed, his famous novels of the war, the Parade's End series, was his third attempt to process what he had been through. So finding the real stories, how he shaped characters on actual people, is really interesting to me. (con't)
This brings me to the second reason I'm reading the book: I find the backstory on books fascinating. There are a lot of authors (or aspiring ones) on this thread, and finding out "the story behind the story" is really interesting to me.
I've long said that people write what they know, and Ford was a world-authority on complex relationships. Passion, lust, betrayal, remorse, flouting convention - this was his life and he poured it into his work.
When he went to war in 1916, he also added that to his body of knowledge. He technically was never a front-line soldier, but his work in the support services sent him back and forth through the trenches and he came under intense bombardments and actually was "blown up" by a shell that flung him around but did not otherwise wound him. He was severely concussed, forgot who he was for days, and this brought intense questions of identity into his work.
Indeed, his famous novels of the war, the Parade's End series, was his third attempt to process what he had been through. So finding the real stories, how he shaped characters on actual people, is really interesting to me. (con't)
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 09:30 AM (llXky)
59
Biographies of writers are often dull, and movies made from biographies are even duller. It's hard to make a scene of someone sitting and typing look exciting.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 09:32 AM (QZxDR)
60
I like Vance's writing style, so I checked out his biography of Elon Musk.
===========================
BSR, reporting for Sunday duty!
O/T as usual, however, if you're interested in Elon Musk at all, checkout Dan Carlin's ("Hardcore History") podcast interviewing Musk and one of his engineers. The topic is initially "Engineering in Warfare", but quickly turns into a geek-out session discussing WWII aircraft. The discussion is great and, I came away with a new respect for Musk. The guy is charming, wickedly smart and really seems to love the USA. Carlin is a genetic lefty, and Musk slaps him down when he takes the inevitable pot-shots at the US in general, the military in general. It's free, and worth a listen. Carlin's other stuff has killed A LOT of windshield time for me too. He did 18 hrs. on WWI, for instance.
===========================
BSR, reporting for Sunday duty!
O/T as usual, however, if you're interested in Elon Musk at all, checkout Dan Carlin's ("Hardcore History") podcast interviewing Musk and one of his engineers. The topic is initially "Engineering in Warfare", but quickly turns into a geek-out session discussing WWII aircraft. The discussion is great and, I came away with a new respect for Musk. The guy is charming, wickedly smart and really seems to love the USA. Carlin is a genetic lefty, and Musk slaps him down when he takes the inevitable pot-shots at the US in general, the military in general. It's free, and worth a listen. Carlin's other stuff has killed A LOT of windshield time for me too. He did 18 hrs. on WWI, for instance.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at August 06, 2023 09:33 AM (7Fj9P)
61
>>>VDH seems to think that the Russian defeat of the Germans was almost inevitable based on their productivity and prewar weapons buildup, but I strongly disagree.
I would agree with Hanson that German armaments, in both quality and quantity, were not where they needed to be, either before or during Barbarossa. Even so, however, the Germans still made it to the gates of Moscow, and if not for the strategic blunders committed by Hitler--in particular, abusing the Soviet minorities ready to welcome the Wehrmacht as liberators--one can easily imagine them dismantling the USSR. Though I suppose, Hitler being who he was, it's hard to imagine those blunders not being committed.
I would agree with Hanson that German armaments, in both quality and quantity, were not where they needed to be, either before or during Barbarossa. Even so, however, the Germans still made it to the gates of Moscow, and if not for the strategic blunders committed by Hitler--in particular, abusing the Soviet minorities ready to welcome the Wehrmacht as liberators--one can easily imagine them dismantling the USSR. Though I suppose, Hitler being who he was, it's hard to imagine those blunders not being committed.
Posted by: Dr. T at August 06, 2023 09:34 AM (m9hmt)
62
39 - There's a big chunk on Pete Worden, the Air Force general and general gadfly who refashioned NASA Ames into Silicon Valley scientific hotspot.
Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 06, 2023 09:16 AM
****
Enjoyed this book and learned a lot. Didn't realize how many roads led back to SDI and Pete Worden. The book also confirmed that space is hard and that it won't be too long before NASA becomes a pure general contractor that only hires others.
Posted by: All Hail Eris at August 06, 2023 09:16 AM
****
Enjoyed this book and learned a lot. Didn't realize how many roads led back to SDI and Pete Worden. The book also confirmed that space is hard and that it won't be too long before NASA becomes a pure general contractor that only hires others.
Posted by: TRex at August 06, 2023 09:35 AM (IQ6Gq)
63
(con't)
The third reason I'm interested is that Ford himself preached an impressionistic style of writing, and was also firmly committed to the proposition that the artist must be scrupulously impartial.
This is the source of his ambiguity - his descriptions are sometimes imprecise, and may change because they are based on what the narrator senses rather than objective truth. The author presents scenes of moral complexity, but cannot pass judgement. That is up to the reader.
Thus, his masterwork, The Good Soldier, shifts the story back and forth as the narrator himself decides what is going on. Ford believed that the author should never intervene by offering "editorial comment" on the tale. It's a fascinating concept, and it's giving me ideas in how to use it in future work.
(con't)
The third reason I'm interested is that Ford himself preached an impressionistic style of writing, and was also firmly committed to the proposition that the artist must be scrupulously impartial.
This is the source of his ambiguity - his descriptions are sometimes imprecise, and may change because they are based on what the narrator senses rather than objective truth. The author presents scenes of moral complexity, but cannot pass judgement. That is up to the reader.
Thus, his masterwork, The Good Soldier, shifts the story back and forth as the narrator himself decides what is going on. Ford believed that the author should never intervene by offering "editorial comment" on the tale. It's a fascinating concept, and it's giving me ideas in how to use it in future work.
(con't)
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 09:35 AM (llXky)
64
I am reading Galusha the Magnificent by Joseph C. Lincoln. Lincoln wrote dozens of novels, most of them set in fictionalized Cape Cod towns. They are basically comedies, but there are some decent action scenes. "Galusha" was written in 1916, so it's got all the slang of the time.
Posted by: Lincolntf at August 06, 2023 09:37 AM (7VXfH)
65
I noticed the link @perfesser squirrel, and all the Moron book reviews posted there. Are there guidelines for submissions?
I'd love to write an in depth review of a Paulette Giles book.
I'd love to write an in depth review of a Paulette Giles book.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at August 06, 2023 09:37 AM (7Fj9P)
66
" . . . posing as if they are reading a book."
I think it's adorable when I see a picture of LeBron James reading a table of contents in a book.
I think it's adorable when I see a picture of LeBron James reading a table of contents in a book.
Posted by: Kam Fong as Chin Ho at August 06, 2023 09:37 AM (gf7Ez)
67
NASA is a science agency, and should get out of the rocket business altogether.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 09:38 AM (QZxDR)
68
Hot Coffee!!! Frozen Orbit..Patrick Chiles...awesome space age alternative history...piqued my interest into gaining some knowledge on Interstellar navigation...great read...even has some relative interesting discoveries at the end that was recently found in meteorites...no spoilers!!!
Posted by: Qmark at August 06, 2023 09:39 AM (+t9Oi)
69
Also with the Man From U.N.C.L.E. series, there was a digest-sized monthly magazine from 1966 to about '68 that featured an original Solo & Illya novelette in each issue. All appeared under the house name of "Robert Hart Davis," but they were penned by pulp crime writer Harry Whittington, future crime writer Bill Pronzini, and future best-seller John Jakes, among others. Most appear to have been written quickly, and they don't really reference other stories in the series. One or two are very good stories -- but they are not as worthy of examination as the Ace paperbacks.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 09:39 AM (omVj0)
70
I noticed the link @perfesser squirrel, and all the Moron book reviews posted there. Are there guidelines for submissions?
I'd love to write an in depth review of a Paulette Giles book.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at August 06, 2023 09:37 AM (7Fj9P)
---
Nope. No guidelines for submissions. The recommendations I feature every week are basically the ones I find the most interesting.
If you'd like to do an in-depth review of a book, go for it! I love to showcase "Feature Reviews" by Morons! (I've been copying A.H. Lloyd's extended comments of the Ford Madox Ford biography for that very reason...)
I'd love to write an in depth review of a Paulette Giles book.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at August 06, 2023 09:37 AM (7Fj9P)
---
Nope. No guidelines for submissions. The recommendations I feature every week are basically the ones I find the most interesting.
If you'd like to do an in-depth review of a book, go for it! I love to showcase "Feature Reviews" by Morons! (I've been copying A.H. Lloyd's extended comments of the Ford Madox Ford biography for that very reason...)
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at August 06, 2023 09:40 AM (BpYfr)
71
(con't)
The fourth reason I'm hanging with this is that I'm a huge fan of Evelyn Waugh, and I could not help but notice lots of similarities between the authors. Did they know each other? Well, they absolutely knew *of* each other, but I'm coming to see that no, they never seem to have interacted.
Interestingly, Evelyn's older brother, Alec, did interact with Ford, and was part of his social circle. Alec saw service in WW I and was something of an enfant terrible in the literary world, famously hinting that his school, Sherbourne, tolerated homosexuality (which got him kicked out of the alumni association and his younger brother banned from attending there). Alec went on to write potboiler novels, most famously Island in the Sun.
The Waugh brothers were not close, indeed something of rivals. Their father heavily favored Alec, and Evelyn resented it, so it's not surprising that Evelyn would disdain one of his brother's crowd. Moreover, by the time Evelyn was coming into his own, Ford had left England and his reputation was in eclipse.
(con't)
The fourth reason I'm hanging with this is that I'm a huge fan of Evelyn Waugh, and I could not help but notice lots of similarities between the authors. Did they know each other? Well, they absolutely knew *of* each other, but I'm coming to see that no, they never seem to have interacted.
Interestingly, Evelyn's older brother, Alec, did interact with Ford, and was part of his social circle. Alec saw service in WW I and was something of an enfant terrible in the literary world, famously hinting that his school, Sherbourne, tolerated homosexuality (which got him kicked out of the alumni association and his younger brother banned from attending there). Alec went on to write potboiler novels, most famously Island in the Sun.
The Waugh brothers were not close, indeed something of rivals. Their father heavily favored Alec, and Evelyn resented it, so it's not surprising that Evelyn would disdain one of his brother's crowd. Moreover, by the time Evelyn was coming into his own, Ford had left England and his reputation was in eclipse.
(con't)
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 09:40 AM (llXky)
72
Since school and activities start next week I've been reading the handbooks for each activity my kids are involved in. Only 5; school, band, orchestra, JROTC, & shooting club. Fun stuff!///
Posted by: lin-duh at August 06, 2023 09:41 AM (UUBmN)
73
Frozen Orbit..Patrick Chiles...awesome space age alternative history...piqued my interest into gaining some knowledge on Interstellar navigation...great read...even has some relative interesting discoveries at the end that was recently found in meteorites...no spoilers!!!
Posted by: Qmark at August 06, 2023 09:39 AM (+t9Oi)
---
Yep! Patrick Chiles is definitely One Of Us, if you know what I mean...
Posted by: Qmark at August 06, 2023 09:39 AM (+t9Oi)
---
Yep! Patrick Chiles is definitely One Of Us, if you know what I mean...
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at August 06, 2023 09:41 AM (BpYfr)
74
Just started reading 'July 1914 Countdown to War' by Sean McMeekin.
I thinking about getting a copy of Hew Strachan's work on WWI.
Posted by: dantesed at August 06, 2023 09:29 AM (88xKn)
McMeekin's book is one I would strongly recommend. Even if you don't agree with all his conclusions (and some don't), it's good to get an interpretation of the war's outbreak that differs from the usual "Germany's behind it all!" line. Also, it makes a strong argument for just how avoidable WWI was.
I thinking about getting a copy of Hew Strachan's work on WWI.
Posted by: dantesed at August 06, 2023 09:29 AM (88xKn)
McMeekin's book is one I would strongly recommend. Even if you don't agree with all his conclusions (and some don't), it's good to get an interpretation of the war's outbreak that differs from the usual "Germany's behind it all!" line. Also, it makes a strong argument for just how avoidable WWI was.
Posted by: Dr. T at August 06, 2023 09:41 AM (m9hmt)
75
Morning Bookists! Thank Perfessor!
Got my two used books by post this week, dove right in:
The "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister" books written by the writers (Jonathan Lynn and Anthony Jay) of my favorite TV show by the same names.
These will keep me amused and entertained for months, I suspect.
Happy reading everyone!
Got my two used books by post this week, dove right in:
The "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister" books written by the writers (Jonathan Lynn and Anthony Jay) of my favorite TV show by the same names.
These will keep me amused and entertained for months, I suspect.
Happy reading everyone!
Posted by: goatexchange at August 06, 2023 09:41 AM (APPN8)
76
Just started reading 'July 1914 Countdown to War' by Sean McMeekin.
I thinking about getting a copy of Hew Strachan's work on WWI.
Posted by: dantesed at August 06, 2023 09:29 AM (88xKn)
=======================
As I said above, Carlin's podcasts on WWI are amazing. He uses a ton of original source material, and does a good job of describing the terrible storm of war from first hand accounts. Really moving descriptions.
He also does a couple of hours on the sinking of the Indianapolis[/]; you'll only listen to that once.
I thinking about getting a copy of Hew Strachan's work on WWI.
Posted by: dantesed at August 06, 2023 09:29 AM (88xKn)
=======================
As I said above, Carlin's podcasts on WWI are amazing. He uses a ton of original source material, and does a good job of describing the terrible storm of war from first hand accounts. Really moving descriptions.
He also does a couple of hours on the sinking of the Indianapolis[/]; you'll only listen to that once.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at August 06, 2023 09:43 AM (7Fj9P)
77
61 - Even so, however, the Germans still made it to the gates of Moscow, and if not for the strategic blunders committed by Hitler--in particular, abusing the Soviet minorities ready to welcome the Wehrmacht as liberators--one can easily imagine them dismantling the USSR.
Posted by: Dr. T at August 06, 2023 09:34 AM
***
The sub-genre of WWII counterfactuals is endlessly interesting. So many key points could have gone in different directions.
Posted by: Dr. T at August 06, 2023 09:34 AM
***
The sub-genre of WWII counterfactuals is endlessly interesting. So many key points could have gone in different directions.
Posted by: TRex at August 06, 2023 09:43 AM (IQ6Gq)
78
>>" . . . posing as if they are reading a book."
I think it's adorable when I see a picture of LeBron James reading a table of contents in a book.
AH, who can forget Obama doing that for 8 years?
His touch was carrying books and magazines about himself - Barry's favorite subject, favorite person, source of all inspiration, values, truth and knowledge (me, me, me, I, I, I. . .).
I think it's adorable when I see a picture of LeBron James reading a table of contents in a book.
AH, who can forget Obama doing that for 8 years?
His touch was carrying books and magazines about himself - Barry's favorite subject, favorite person, source of all inspiration, values, truth and knowledge (me, me, me, I, I, I. . .).
Posted by: Lizzy at August 06, 2023 09:44 AM (avru5)
79
[/]
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at August 06, 2023 09:44 AM (7Fj9P)
80
Jim did a great job responding to grammie's comment about her 'inconsequential' reading. With a few notable exceptions: Tolkien, CS Lewis, Wendell Berry, Malcolm Guite and a few others, most of my reading of 20th century authors has been 'inconsequential' but thoroughly enjoyable. Patrick O'Brian, Matt Helm, several mystery series, Louis L' Amour, Bernard Cornwell, Robert Howard, even the MASH books for silliness, and Wodehouse. That's a lot of enjoyable humor and exciting story telling. Not everything has to be profound.
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 09:44 AM (7EjX1)
81
Sorry!
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at August 06, 2023 09:44 AM (7Fj9P)
82
Biographies of writers are often dull, and movies made from biographies are even duller. It's hard to make a scene of someone sitting and typing look exciting.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023
***
The early movie Shadowlands, with Anthony Hopkins as C.S. Lewis and Debra Winger as the American divorcee he loved in the 1950s, was -- while not *exciting* -- entertaining and touching. And I can't recall much about it, but the late '70s Heart Beat film with John Heard and NIck Nolte as Jack Kerouac and Neal Cassady, plus Sissy Spacek as the woman they both loved, has stuck in my memory for many years. Maybe a love story is essential to make a movie about a writer work for an audience.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023
***
The early movie Shadowlands, with Anthony Hopkins as C.S. Lewis and Debra Winger as the American divorcee he loved in the 1950s, was -- while not *exciting* -- entertaining and touching. And I can't recall much about it, but the late '70s Heart Beat film with John Heard and NIck Nolte as Jack Kerouac and Neal Cassady, plus Sissy Spacek as the woman they both loved, has stuck in my memory for many years. Maybe a love story is essential to make a movie about a writer work for an audience.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 09:44 AM (omVj0)
Posted by: naturalfake at August 06, 2023 09:45 AM (QzZeQ)
84
Re: 82: I meant to write "the early '90s movie Shadowlands."
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 09:45 AM (omVj0)
85
(con't)
It is clear to me that Waugh's "Smart Set" books rely a great deal on the conventions that Ford helped break down. He never divorced his wife, and yet lived openly with other women and even had an illegitimate child in the 1920s.
Moreover, both men were converts to Catholicism, though Waugh was far more serious. I'm now up to 1919, and though Ford continues to sin, he's haunted by it, and the family he abandoned (which of course gives him even more material).
Anyway, Ford was a huge part of the literary world for 20 years, working with Joseph Conrad, H.G. Wells, Ezra Pound, etc. He's something of a footnote now, largely because his family refused to sustain his legacy and his habit of feuding with friends left him without any champions until Graham Greene's attempt to revive interest in him after his death.
It is clear to me that Waugh's "Smart Set" books rely a great deal on the conventions that Ford helped break down. He never divorced his wife, and yet lived openly with other women and even had an illegitimate child in the 1920s.
Moreover, both men were converts to Catholicism, though Waugh was far more serious. I'm now up to 1919, and though Ford continues to sin, he's haunted by it, and the family he abandoned (which of course gives him even more material).
Anyway, Ford was a huge part of the literary world for 20 years, working with Joseph Conrad, H.G. Wells, Ezra Pound, etc. He's something of a footnote now, largely because his family refused to sustain his legacy and his habit of feuding with friends left him without any champions until Graham Greene's attempt to revive interest in him after his death.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 09:45 AM (llXky)
86
I think it's adorable when I see a picture of LeBron James reading a table of contents in a book.
Posted by: Kam Fong
"What's this?" (LeBron points to a symbol on the page and asks his manager)
"That's the number '10' James."
Posted by: Kam Fong
"What's this?" (LeBron points to a symbol on the page and asks his manager)
"That's the number '10' James."
Posted by: Tonypete at August 06, 2023 09:46 AM (WSTFK)
87
Oh, for the Love of Life Orchestra. When it's part of the front matter of a book, it's a foreword! A freaking FOREWORD! What's the matter with this whole dang country?! I swear, sometimes I just wanna ...
There. I'm all better now, and ready to be part of the fun again. All set? FOREWORD MARCH!
If I may follow the above tantrum with a book-adjacent question: At the end of this month I will be attending Dragon Con for the first time, and am feeling a little daunted by the scale of the event. Does anyone have any advice born of experience for a little old newbie?
There. I'm all better now, and ready to be part of the fun again. All set? FOREWORD MARCH!
If I may follow the above tantrum with a book-adjacent question: At the end of this month I will be attending Dragon Con for the first time, and am feeling a little daunted by the scale of the event. Does anyone have any advice born of experience for a little old newbie?
Posted by: werewife, princess of Delray Beach at August 06, 2023 09:46 AM (SPNTN)
88
I dimly recall reading the first of the "Dungeon" series and not wanting to continue. I think that my problem was the "funhouse" nature of the strange world Ffoliot was thrown into.
Quite simply, I didn't know what the rules were and that bugged me. Was this a world of magic? Or an alien planet? I don't mind a mystery but I want there to be a solution.
Quite simply, I didn't know what the rules were and that bugged me. Was this a world of magic? Or an alien planet? I don't mind a mystery but I want there to be a solution.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 09:46 AM (QZxDR)
89
54 ... "soon AI will serialize Dumas , Dickens, Jules Verne and Doyle"
No doubt but they won't get any money from me. I'll be too busy turning the pages of books from my shelves.
No doubt but they won't get any money from me. I'll be too busy turning the pages of books from my shelves.
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 09:47 AM (7EjX1)
90
84 Re: 82: I meant to write "the early '90s movie Shadowlands."
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 09:45 AM (omVj0)
Wasn't that one of the interminable Hopkins-Thompkins movies?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 09:45 AM (omVj0)
Wasn't that one of the interminable Hopkins-Thompkins movies?
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 09:48 AM (zZu0s)
91
Quite simply, I didn't know what the rules were and that bugged me. Was this a world of magic? Or an alien planet? I don't mind a mystery but I want there to be a solution.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 09:46 AM (QZxDR)
----
Without spoiling too much, it's sufficiently advanced aliens. There IS a solution, though it's a bit convoluted.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 09:46 AM (QZxDR)
----
Without spoiling too much, it's sufficiently advanced aliens. There IS a solution, though it's a bit convoluted.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at August 06, 2023 09:49 AM (BpYfr)
92
>>Biographies of writers are often dull, and movies made from biographies are even duller.
The fairly recent movie about Tolkein, called "Tolkein," focusing on his school years just before the war, and then a bit of the horrors of serving in the war, was good.
The fairly recent movie about Tolkein, called "Tolkein," focusing on his school years just before the war, and then a bit of the horrors of serving in the war, was good.
Posted by: Lizzy at August 06, 2023 09:50 AM (avru5)
93
@75 --
I own the "Yes, Minister" book and have read "Yes, Prime Minister." I love how the stories are presented, with the use of diary pages and newspaper clippings in place of streams of dialogue.
The Civil Service was the Deep State long before we heard that term. I always thought Humphrey should have been hanged for treason -- but he makes a good defense of his actions, which I think also makes a good argument for a return to the spoils system.
I own the "Yes, Minister" book and have read "Yes, Prime Minister." I love how the stories are presented, with the use of diary pages and newspaper clippings in place of streams of dialogue.
The Civil Service was the Deep State long before we heard that term. I always thought Humphrey should have been hanged for treason -- but he makes a good defense of his actions, which I think also makes a good argument for a return to the spoils system.
Posted by: Weak Geek at August 06, 2023 09:52 AM (p/isN)
94
Wasn't that one of the interminable Hopkins-Thompkins movies?
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023
***
If you mean the ones he did with Emma Thompson, The Remains of the Day and Howard's End, then no; this I think was an original script, and Emma was not in it.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023
***
If you mean the ones he did with Emma Thompson, The Remains of the Day and Howard's End, then no; this I think was an original script, and Emma was not in it.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 09:53 AM (omVj0)
95
Pet-Book Thread!‽‼
A bit of concern today. Every morning, when I get up, dear old Ony Cat immediately starts mewing "feeed meee." This morning, no Ony. I searched all over the house, looked in all her hidey-holes, calling her. Couldn't find her. Rather than panic, Daisy Dog and I just took our morning meander (sniffari, someone in the pet thread called it). When we got back, there was Ony, waiting inside, mewing "feeed meee." Phew! Where was she? How did she do that? I don't know. Was glad she showed up!
[On-topic book-related additional comment goes here]
A bit of concern today. Every morning, when I get up, dear old Ony Cat immediately starts mewing "feeed meee." This morning, no Ony. I searched all over the house, looked in all her hidey-holes, calling her. Couldn't find her. Rather than panic, Daisy Dog and I just took our morning meander (sniffari, someone in the pet thread called it). When we got back, there was Ony, waiting inside, mewing "feeed meee." Phew! Where was she? How did she do that? I don't know. Was glad she showed up!
[On-topic book-related additional comment goes here]
Posted by: mindful webworker - another turn of the page at August 06, 2023 09:54 AM (O2Vgk)
96
Only a fag wears gaiters when he's whacking his weeds.
Posted by: Dr. Bone at August 06, 2023 09:55 AM (KVGVf)
97
The Civil Service was the Deep State long before we heard that term. I always thought Humphrey should have been hanged for treason -- but he makes a good defense of his actions, which I think also makes a good argument for a return to the spoils system.
Posted by: Weak Geek at August 06, 2023 09:52 AM (p/isN)
This was one of the arguments against the Roman model, with it's yearly term limits (and at least theoretical prohibition from running/holding office more than one term in a row.) The argument was that it meant that a person came in to govern a province who did not know the area, so then the romans went to a centralized bureaucracy. Which then became a power unto itself and a couple times picked the emperor... strange.
Posted by: Weak Geek at August 06, 2023 09:52 AM (p/isN)
This was one of the arguments against the Roman model, with it's yearly term limits (and at least theoretical prohibition from running/holding office more than one term in a row.) The argument was that it meant that a person came in to govern a province who did not know the area, so then the romans went to a centralized bureaucracy. Which then became a power unto itself and a couple times picked the emperor... strange.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 09:55 AM (zZu0s)
98
A neglected biopic subgenre is movies about actors. Especially actors from the pre-1980s era: in many cases the things they are best known for (movies and TV) are the least interesting parts of their lives. I'd love to see a film of Jimmy Stewart's life, or Christopher Lee's, or Basil Rathbone's, or even Claude Rains's.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 09:56 AM (QZxDR)
99
Wolfus has mentioned the Man From UNCLE series of books a number of times. I really enjoyed them as a teen when they first came out. I should find a few copies and see how they appeal after 50-plus years. (Oh dear! Another reason to visit the used book store.)
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 09:56 AM (7EjX1)
100
89 54 ... "soon AI will serialize Dumas , Dickens, Jules Verne and Doyle"
An obvious possibility, but couldn't it be said that, thanks to the miracle of copyright expiration, that said authors and many others have already been serialized by their admirers both pro and fan? It looks as if the Holmes saga is already the world's longest multi-author series, and many of the posthumous installments are worthy of the originals. (Confession: I am a fierce huntress of Holmes pastiche, especially if it involves literary and/or historical crossover.) Or does that sort of thing not count, since it's unplanned?
An obvious possibility, but couldn't it be said that, thanks to the miracle of copyright expiration, that said authors and many others have already been serialized by their admirers both pro and fan? It looks as if the Holmes saga is already the world's longest multi-author series, and many of the posthumous installments are worthy of the originals. (Confession: I am a fierce huntress of Holmes pastiche, especially if it involves literary and/or historical crossover.) Or does that sort of thing not count, since it's unplanned?
Posted by: werewife, princess of Delray Beach at August 06, 2023 09:56 AM (SPNTN)
101
98 A neglected biopic subgenre is movies about actors. Especially actors from the pre-1980s era: in many cases the things they are best known for (movies and TV) are the least interesting parts of their lives. I'd love to see a film of Jimmy Stewart's life, or Christopher Lee's, or Basil Rathbone's, or even Claude Rains's.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 09:56 AM (QZxDR)
Was Audie Murphy's Biopic a person playing himself in a movie or a movie about an actor?
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 09:56 AM (QZxDR)
Was Audie Murphy's Biopic a person playing himself in a movie or a movie about an actor?
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 09:57 AM (zZu0s)
102
Looking back on recent purchases, it looks like its been more than 3 months since I bought any ridiculously overpriced comic book omnibuses. Not because I've matured out of buying such books, but simply because nothing has been released lately that I need to buy. And the books that I do need to buy have been delayed. One for two months (was supposed to come out last month, is now scheduled for next month) and the other until November! Gah! I'll probably have been waiting a full year from the announcement of that book until its actual publication. Curses.
I may end up buying a book off of my it-would-be-neat-to-have list just out of impatience, and for retail-therapy after a really busy weekend...
I may end up buying a book off of my it-would-be-neat-to-have list just out of impatience, and for retail-therapy after a really busy weekend...
Posted by: Castle Guy at August 06, 2023 09:57 AM (Lhaco)
103
Steven Brust did a series of thinly veiled Dumas books set in his world. The Khaavren(?) books.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 09:58 AM (zZu0s)
104
Plenty of author bios that are very well written and engaging. How else would we know about the life and times of Dickens, Dumas , Tolstoy, Voltaire for example, if it was not for a well researched, assembled bios of these authors.
Posted by: runner at August 06, 2023 09:59 AM (V13WU)
105
VDH seems to think that the Russian defeat of the Germans was almost inevitable based on their productivity and prewar weapons buildup, but I strongly disagree.
Posted by: Archimedes at August 06, 2023 09:15 AM (eOEVl)
---
VDH is correct. The Wehrmacht was a spent force in December 1941. Its logistics were in a state of collapse, and people who wargame it out, don't have to account for millions of dead horses who can no longer pull German supplies forward.
Put simply, the Germans' only hope was for a political collapse. That was what happened in 1917, but Stalin was no Nicholas II.
Posted by: Archimedes at August 06, 2023 09:15 AM (eOEVl)
---
VDH is correct. The Wehrmacht was a spent force in December 1941. Its logistics were in a state of collapse, and people who wargame it out, don't have to account for millions of dead horses who can no longer pull German supplies forward.
Put simply, the Germans' only hope was for a political collapse. That was what happened in 1917, but Stalin was no Nicholas II.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 10:01 AM (llXky)
106
Was Audie Murphy's Biopic a person playing himself in a movie or a movie about an actor?
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 09:57 AM (zZu0s)
---
Yes.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 09:57 AM (zZu0s)
---
Yes.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 10:02 AM (llXky)
107
I remember reading a very good one about Voltaire, don't remember by whom. Fascinating!
Posted by: runner at August 06, 2023 10:02 AM (V13WU)
108
A neglected biopic subgenre is movies about actors. Especially actors from the pre-1980s era: in many cases the things they are best known for (movies and TV) are the least interesting parts of their lives. I'd love to see a film of Jimmy Stewart's life, or Christopher Lee's, or Basil Rathbone's, or even Claude Rains's.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 09:56 AM (QZxDR)
---
Joan Crawford got one.
*hides wire hangers*
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 09:56 AM (QZxDR)
---
Joan Crawford got one.
*hides wire hangers*
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 10:03 AM (llXky)
109
Wolfus has mentioned the Man From UNCLE series of books a number of times. I really enjoyed them as a teen when they first came out. I should find a few copies and see how they appeal after 50-plus years. (Oh dear! Another reason to visit the used book store.)
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023
***
Not all of them are top-notch storytelling, but any of the ones written by David McDaniel (Nos. 4, 6, 8 [my favorite], 13, and 15 are. In particular, The Rainbow Affair, is grand fun -- it features unnamed cameos by nearly all the famous fictional British detectives and some of the infamous criminals as well (Dr. Fu Manchu appears in several scenes!).
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023
***
Not all of them are top-notch storytelling, but any of the ones written by David McDaniel (Nos. 4, 6, 8 [my favorite], 13, and 15 are. In particular, The Rainbow Affair, is grand fun -- it features unnamed cameos by nearly all the famous fictional British detectives and some of the infamous criminals as well (Dr. Fu Manchu appears in several scenes!).
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 10:03 AM (omVj0)
110
I meant to write "the early '90s movie Shadowlands."
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 09:45 AM (omVj0)
---
Douglas Gresham's version of the story. His brother (who remained close to his father) was written out of the script.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 09:45 AM (omVj0)
---
Douglas Gresham's version of the story. His brother (who remained close to his father) was written out of the script.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 10:04 AM (llXky)
111
98 A neglected biopic subgenre is movies about actors. Especially actors from the pre-1980s era: in many cases the things they are best known for (movies and TV) are the least interesting parts of their lives. I'd love to see a film of Jimmy Stewart's life, or Christopher Lee's, or Basil Rathbone's, or even Claude Rains's.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 09:56 AM
Have I got a book for you!
The easiest way to find The Dark Masters Trilogy, by the British screenwriter Stephen Volk, is via the Hoopla app provided by many public library systems. Volk has chosen three British artists of the 20th century most noted for their work in the area of ... terror!: actor Peter Cushing, director Alfred Hitchcock, and novelist Dennis Wheatley. He takes an incident from the lives of each (Cushing's widowhood, Hitchcock's bizarre episode of child-abuse-by-cop, and Wheatley's encounter with Aleister Crowley), and weaves a fictional (and mind-blowing) tapestry around it, diving deep into the nature of fear, of love, of life itself .... Don't miss it!
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 09:56 AM
Have I got a book for you!
The easiest way to find The Dark Masters Trilogy, by the British screenwriter Stephen Volk, is via the Hoopla app provided by many public library systems. Volk has chosen three British artists of the 20th century most noted for their work in the area of ... terror!: actor Peter Cushing, director Alfred Hitchcock, and novelist Dennis Wheatley. He takes an incident from the lives of each (Cushing's widowhood, Hitchcock's bizarre episode of child-abuse-by-cop, and Wheatley's encounter with Aleister Crowley), and weaves a fictional (and mind-blowing) tapestry around it, diving deep into the nature of fear, of love, of life itself .... Don't miss it!
Posted by: werewife, princess of Delray Beach at August 06, 2023 10:05 AM (SPNTN)
112
Be wary when publishers begin to churn out long, lost books that deceased authors have hidden in pigeon holes.
AI will scam you without any moral or ethical boundaries.
AI will scam you without any moral or ethical boundaries.
Posted by: Dr. Bone at August 06, 2023 10:05 AM (KVGVf)
113
@102 --
Castle Guy, try your local library system. You might be surprised at what graphic novels and trade collections are available.
Castle Guy, try your local library system. You might be surprised at what graphic novels and trade collections are available.
Posted by: Weak Geek at August 06, 2023 10:05 AM (p/isN)
114
To put it another way, while one could write 1,000 pages on Tolkien's writings, his personal life was dull.
(con't)
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 09:24 AM (llXky)
This plays into what (IIRC) I believe Evelyn Waugh said about moron-favorite PG Wodehouse after finally meeting him-
"Plum" Wodehouse was the most boring person I've ever met."
Like many of us, we'd love to meet and talk to PG Wodehouse thinking that conversation would be chalk full of humor, entertainment, and wisdom.
Nope.
Wodehouse was all about his writing. He really had no other interests. Waugh isn't the only one who loved his books and was shocked to find the man himself a frightful bore.
TL/DR You can't always tell an author by the books.
(con't)
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 09:24 AM (llXky)
This plays into what (IIRC) I believe Evelyn Waugh said about moron-favorite PG Wodehouse after finally meeting him-
"Plum" Wodehouse was the most boring person I've ever met."
Like many of us, we'd love to meet and talk to PG Wodehouse thinking that conversation would be chalk full of humor, entertainment, and wisdom.
Nope.
Wodehouse was all about his writing. He really had no other interests. Waugh isn't the only one who loved his books and was shocked to find the man himself a frightful bore.
TL/DR You can't always tell an author by the books.
Posted by: naturalfake at August 06, 2023 10:05 AM (QzZeQ)
115
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 09:24 AM (llXky)
I think the idea that writers and artists have to lead unconventional, messy lives filled with love affairs, booze, drugs, exotic travels etc. comes from the Romantic Era and is personified by Lord Byron and Shelley. Honestly, there have been plenty of writers who have steered clear of bohemian lifestyles and concentrated on quietly doing their work - Tolkien, Thomas Hardy, T.S. Eliott, William Carlos Williams (who also worked as a physician) are the ones that come to mind. I think that a lot of young people with artistic or literary inclinations have flocked to the Left Bank or Greenwich Village or San Francisco over the generations and have been able to fool themselves that they're leading artistic lifestyles when all they're doing is sleeping around a lot, sitting on their asses at cafes, doing drugs and loafing around. Leading a wild life and yet having the discipline to sit down and produce quality work is not something most people can manage.
I think the idea that writers and artists have to lead unconventional, messy lives filled with love affairs, booze, drugs, exotic travels etc. comes from the Romantic Era and is personified by Lord Byron and Shelley. Honestly, there have been plenty of writers who have steered clear of bohemian lifestyles and concentrated on quietly doing their work - Tolkien, Thomas Hardy, T.S. Eliott, William Carlos Williams (who also worked as a physician) are the ones that come to mind. I think that a lot of young people with artistic or literary inclinations have flocked to the Left Bank or Greenwich Village or San Francisco over the generations and have been able to fool themselves that they're leading artistic lifestyles when all they're doing is sleeping around a lot, sitting on their asses at cafes, doing drugs and loafing around. Leading a wild life and yet having the discipline to sit down and produce quality work is not something most people can manage.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023 10:07 AM (HabA/)
116
I think the Doc Savage books would qualify as a series by different authors, as there were a few writers who subb’d for Lester Dent occasionally. Then the series ended in 1949, but a few writers added additional installments starting in I think the ‘90s. I want to read “Escape From Loki”, a later one, which describes how Doc first met his five aides in a WWI German prison camp.
Posted by: Norrin Radd at August 06, 2023 10:07 AM (PD6x0)
117
It looks as if the Holmes saga is already the world's longest multi-author series, and many of the posthumous installments are worthy of the originals. (Confession: I am a fierce huntress of Holmes pastiche, especially if it involves literary and/or historical crossover.)
Posted by: werewife, princess of Delray Beach at August 06, 2023
***
Detroit-based crime and Western writer Loren D. Estleman does very good pastiches; his stuff is approved by the Doyle estate. In fact I think his first novel way back in the '70s was Sherlock Holmes vs. Dracula!
Come to think of it, a certain "William Escott" appears in two major scenes in the David McDaniel U.N.C.L.E. novel I mention above, The Rainbow Affair. The novel is not about him, but he features very importantly, and the scenes are very well done.
Posted by: werewife, princess of Delray Beach at August 06, 2023
***
Detroit-based crime and Western writer Loren D. Estleman does very good pastiches; his stuff is approved by the Doyle estate. In fact I think his first novel way back in the '70s was Sherlock Holmes vs. Dracula!
Come to think of it, a certain "William Escott" appears in two major scenes in the David McDaniel U.N.C.L.E. novel I mention above, The Rainbow Affair. The novel is not about him, but he features very importantly, and the scenes are very well done.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 10:08 AM (omVj0)
118
Any fans of Edward Gorey in the house? Wife and I went to his house (now a small museum) in Yarmouthport the other day. If you've seen Gorey's illustrations you can probably guess what his decorating choices were. Pretty cool museum, and you can easily see it all in less than an hour.
Posted by: Lincolntf at August 06, 2023 10:08 AM (7VXfH)
119
So many lessons in Solzhenitsyn's book August 1914. Not an easy read, but SO worth it.
Posted by: FIIGMO at August 06, 2023 10:08 AM (5Xtai)
120
Tolkien was at the Somme and lost almost all of his school years friends.
He earned a little boredom.
He earned a little boredom.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 10:08 AM (zZu0s)
121
...We'll move onto another topic next week...
********
This one always catches my eye: onto vs. on to
Your cat may move onto something else next week, perhaps another book or bookshelf.
You, however, will move on, perhaps to another topic.
********
This one always catches my eye: onto vs. on to
Your cat may move onto something else next week, perhaps another book or bookshelf.
You, however, will move on, perhaps to another topic.
Posted by: As always, pedants are required, even if it's this pedant at August 06, 2023 10:09 AM (l4B/J)
122
23 I am reading Cline's book about the Bronze Age collapse. I am amazed at how much stuff survived and how there is nothing comparable in North America. South of the Rio, yes, north, not so much
Posted by: Jamaica NYC at August 06, 2023 09:08 AM (Eeb9P)
You mean "1277 BC"? I've read through that a time or two on ebook format. The end of the Bronze Age feels like a prime topic for fiction. A whole global system collapsing with all the dread and foreboding of the Mines of Moria. I can't remember which city it was (Ugarit?) but the last records we have before the city was sacked was an official record of the city resorting to human sacrifice in hopes of being delivered from their attackers...
Posted by: Jamaica NYC at August 06, 2023 09:08 AM (Eeb9P)
You mean "1277 BC"? I've read through that a time or two on ebook format. The end of the Bronze Age feels like a prime topic for fiction. A whole global system collapsing with all the dread and foreboding of the Mines of Moria. I can't remember which city it was (Ugarit?) but the last records we have before the city was sacked was an official record of the city resorting to human sacrifice in hopes of being delivered from their attackers...
Posted by: Castle Guy at August 06, 2023 10:11 AM (Lhaco)
123
The SciFi book is as complete as it can get at the moment and fully formatted for a proof copy from Lulu. I have no way to share excerpts, I have to slap together a website again this week and the supermarket has called lately. One must live.
But it's done and, I think, not terrible.
The Old Cat is well Old, and The Kid went into a panic a few weeks ago when she wouldn't appear, searched all over my house, etc. Turned out she was sound asleep inside a paper bag on the kitchen floor, where I toss them for the two cats to play with and in. Out cold and angry at being woken up for a welfare check.
But it's done and, I think, not terrible.
The Old Cat is well Old, and The Kid went into a panic a few weeks ago when she wouldn't appear, searched all over my house, etc. Turned out she was sound asleep inside a paper bag on the kitchen floor, where I toss them for the two cats to play with and in. Out cold and angry at being woken up for a welfare check.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 10:11 AM (/BBNv)
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Honestly, there have been plenty of writers who have steered clear of bohemian lifestyles and concentrated on quietly doing their work - Tolkien, Thomas Hardy, T.S. Eliott, William Carlos Williams (who also worked as a physician) are the ones that come to mind. . . .
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023
***
Robert Heinlein was an Annapolis graduate and an engineer before he turned to writing. His love life, I'll admit, was odder than usual for that time period: an early marriage and divorce, then his second wife Leslyn who became an alcoholic, and then Virginia, whom he took up with before his divorce from Leslyn was final. But then he remained married to Ginny for some forty years, until his death. The wild stuff he wrote about in Stranger in a Strange Land and other novels didn't seem to have much if any place in his own life.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023
***
Robert Heinlein was an Annapolis graduate and an engineer before he turned to writing. His love life, I'll admit, was odder than usual for that time period: an early marriage and divorce, then his second wife Leslyn who became an alcoholic, and then Virginia, whom he took up with before his divorce from Leslyn was final. But then he remained married to Ginny for some forty years, until his death. The wild stuff he wrote about in Stranger in a Strange Land and other novels didn't seem to have much if any place in his own life.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 10:11 AM (omVj0)
125
We don't have that level of sophistication in our society today.
Posted by: OrangeEnt
=====
In the back of my mind, I'm vaguely aware that there is a whole stream of cultural attachments that I'm totally ignorant of. Like most of us as the years pass, I'm self-restricting to the media I know, largely books and to some extent television and movies.
But just a generation or two behind me are those whose experience is more toward the newer dispersed mass media things, streaming, anime, etc., and common touchstones are being developed that I'm totally unaware of.
I'm becoming an out of touch oldster. That's life. Fortunately, there is a lot of the past for me still to mine.
Posted by: OrangeEnt
=====
In the back of my mind, I'm vaguely aware that there is a whole stream of cultural attachments that I'm totally ignorant of. Like most of us as the years pass, I'm self-restricting to the media I know, largely books and to some extent television and movies.
But just a generation or two behind me are those whose experience is more toward the newer dispersed mass media things, streaming, anime, etc., and common touchstones are being developed that I'm totally unaware of.
I'm becoming an out of touch oldster. That's life. Fortunately, there is a lot of the past for me still to mine.
Posted by: From about that Time at August 06, 2023 10:12 AM (4780s)
126
Posted by: Lincolntf at August 06, 2023 10:08 AM (7VXfH)
I really like Gorey! Would love to see his house - I'm picturing the Addams family mansion.
I really like Gorey! Would love to see his house - I'm picturing the Addams family mansion.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023 10:12 AM (HabA/)
127
Wallace Stevens was an Insurance Executive.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 10:13 AM (7epFj)
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Mornin', Hordians!
I read Carol Roth's You Will Own Nothing this week. Very good as a history, but because it was finished before the Transheuser Busch situation, it doesn't recommend replacing products whose companies make it clear they hate you as a strategy. That strategy is FAR more realistic for those of us being slaughtered financially by inflation. Excellent, if a bit depressing, read.
I read Carol Roth's You Will Own Nothing this week. Very good as a history, but because it was finished before the Transheuser Busch situation, it doesn't recommend replacing products whose companies make it clear they hate you as a strategy. That strategy is FAR more realistic for those of us being slaughtered financially by inflation. Excellent, if a bit depressing, read.
Posted by: Catherine at August 06, 2023 10:15 AM (ZSsrh)
129
Wodehouse was all about his writing. He really had no other interests. Waugh isn't the only one who loved his books and was shocked to find the man himself a frightful bore.
Posted by: naturalfake at August 06, 2023 10:05 AM (QzZeQ)
---
Wodehouse also wrote on a pretty narrow topic area where the stakes were consistently silly and small.
If you see a picture of Ford, you'll probably wonder how a blimp like that got so much action, especially when he was almost always broke. The answer is that he held a lot of sway in artistic circles and his personality was electric. He could dominate a room with his wit and absolutely demolish critics to their face.
Thus, in 1919 he's seduced a cute 21-year-old Australian painter named Stella Bowen and they're shacking up together quite openly. Her letters have survived and she's just blown away by his confidence but also his sensitivity.
And he's got that breezy "I've been blown up in the war, you know" confidence about him. Indeed, because his wife and previous lover have stripped him of just about everything he owns, he wanders around London still in uniform because those are the only clothes he has left.
Posted by: naturalfake at August 06, 2023 10:05 AM (QzZeQ)
---
Wodehouse also wrote on a pretty narrow topic area where the stakes were consistently silly and small.
If you see a picture of Ford, you'll probably wonder how a blimp like that got so much action, especially when he was almost always broke. The answer is that he held a lot of sway in artistic circles and his personality was electric. He could dominate a room with his wit and absolutely demolish critics to their face.
Thus, in 1919 he's seduced a cute 21-year-old Australian painter named Stella Bowen and they're shacking up together quite openly. Her letters have survived and she's just blown away by his confidence but also his sensitivity.
And he's got that breezy "I've been blown up in the war, you know" confidence about him. Indeed, because his wife and previous lover have stripped him of just about everything he owns, he wanders around London still in uniform because those are the only clothes he has left.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 10:15 AM (llXky)
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34 The novel I'm reading now is Colleen McCullough's On, Off, a serial killer novel set in Connecticut in 1965.
I hated HATED all the secondary characters. Nearly gave up. Hated ending, too—though I sure didn’t see it coming! Points for that.
I hated HATED all the secondary characters. Nearly gave up. Hated ending, too—though I sure didn’t see it coming! Points for that.
Posted by: Best Thief in Lankhmar at August 06, 2023 10:15 AM (64rer)
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Donna...s comment is interesting, yes there are writers who are quite well adjusted and normal people.
I would not know as I'm practically the poster child for Horrific Writer Guy except for not being a Communist.
I would not know as I'm practically the poster child for Horrific Writer Guy except for not being a Communist.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 10:15 AM (/BBNv)
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>>>You, however, will move on, perhaps to another topic.
Posted by: As always, pedants are required, even if it's this pedant
>This is perhaps why many of us morons are not authors. I can build you a rocket-ship to Mars or a nuclear power facility but my skill-set doesn't include professional writing or editing.
I murder an editor every time I post a comment.
Posted by: As always, pedants are required, even if it's this pedant
>This is perhaps why many of us morons are not authors. I can build you a rocket-ship to Mars or a nuclear power facility but my skill-set doesn't include professional writing or editing.
I murder an editor every time I post a comment.
Posted by: Dr. Bone at August 06, 2023 10:17 AM (KVGVf)
133
The wiki article on the Late Bronze Age collapse is a confused mess. Not surprising.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 10:18 AM (zZu0s)
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An obvious possibility, but couldn't it be said that, thanks to the miracle of copyright expiration, that said authors and many others have already been serialized by their admirers both pro and fan? It looks as if the Holmes saga is already the world's longest multi-author series, and many of the posthumous installments are worthy of the originals. (Confession: I am a fierce huntress of Holmes pastiche, especially if it involves literary and/or historical crossover.) Or does that sort of thing not count, since it's unplanned?
Posted by: werewife, princess of Delray Beach at August 06, 2023 09:56 AM (SPNTN)
Whether they are worthy of the original might be in the eye of the beholder, no offense, but let's face it, if one is a new Dumas or Doyle wouldn't they be producing something original ? serialization by someone other than the original author , especially at the level of the ones we are discussing, can dilute and reduce the original.
Posted by: werewife, princess of Delray Beach at August 06, 2023 09:56 AM (SPNTN)
Whether they are worthy of the original might be in the eye of the beholder, no offense, but let's face it, if one is a new Dumas or Doyle wouldn't they be producing something original ? serialization by someone other than the original author , especially at the level of the ones we are discussing, can dilute and reduce the original.
Posted by: runner at August 06, 2023 10:19 AM (V13WU)
135
The novel I'm reading now is Colleen McCullough's On, Off, a serial killer novel set in Connecticut in 1965.
*
I hated HATED all the secondary characters. Nearly gave up. Hated ending, too—though I sure didn’t see it coming! Points for that.
Posted by: Best Thief in Lankhmar at August 06, 2023
***
She does introduce a LOT of characters in the first couple of chapters. I've noticed in her novels like The thorn Birds and The First Man in Rome that she does that. I have to give her points for trying her hand at multiple genres, though.
*
I hated HATED all the secondary characters. Nearly gave up. Hated ending, too—though I sure didn’t see it coming! Points for that.
Posted by: Best Thief in Lankhmar at August 06, 2023
***
She does introduce a LOT of characters in the first couple of chapters. I've noticed in her novels like The thorn Birds and The First Man in Rome that she does that. I have to give her points for trying her hand at multiple genres, though.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 10:19 AM (omVj0)
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Donna, it's not to the scale of the Addams Family mansion, but the interior is so filled with odds and ends (Gorey was a "collector of collections", per the docent) that it can have a disorienting feel. The coolest part to me was the "Stone Serpent" in Gorey's backyard. It's almost entirely buried in the sandy soil, but you can still make out the general shape. Picture a bunch of softball sized stones laid down in the shape of a snake, about 30 or 40 feet long.
Posted by: Lincolntf at August 06, 2023 10:19 AM (7VXfH)
137
@115 --
In that same vein, comic-strip cartoonists.
I read a book by Mort Walker, the creator of "Beetle Bailey," that mentioned quirks by other guys in the business. One did his drawing in his bare feet, with one foot in a bowl of cold water and the other in hot. Another would take his phone off the hook when he was perilously close to his deadline to forestall any calls from his syndicate.
In that same vein, comic-strip cartoonists.
I read a book by Mort Walker, the creator of "Beetle Bailey," that mentioned quirks by other guys in the business. One did his drawing in his bare feet, with one foot in a bowl of cold water and the other in hot. Another would take his phone off the hook when he was perilously close to his deadline to forestall any calls from his syndicate.
Posted by: Weak Geek at August 06, 2023 10:19 AM (p/isN)
138
Why do cat's like to lay on paper?
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 06, 2023 10:21 AM (aD39U)
139
I think the idea that writers and artists have to lead unconventional, messy lives filled with love affairs, booze, drugs, exotic travels etc. comes from the Romantic Era and is personified by Lord Byron and Shelley.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023 10:07 AM (HabA/)
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I disagree. If you go back, many authors were people who *did* things. They had to have had experience of the world in order to write something interesting.
And that continued into the modern era. Mark Twain and an eventful life, and it shows in his work. While Tolkien's family life was quiet, up to that point he had been through a terrible time, dealing with the death of his father, the difficulty of being Catholic in Edwardian England, World War I, etc.
Ford was somewhat unique in that he insisted on serving in uniform, even though he was too old and fat to pass a physical. He just kept trying, pulled strings and finally the manpower shortage was desperate to get him into uniform.
Interestingly, he really enjoyed Army life and even thought of staying in as an instructor, but decided writing was his calling. Most artists in uniform hate it. Waugh did.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023 10:07 AM (HabA/)
---
I disagree. If you go back, many authors were people who *did* things. They had to have had experience of the world in order to write something interesting.
And that continued into the modern era. Mark Twain and an eventful life, and it shows in his work. While Tolkien's family life was quiet, up to that point he had been through a terrible time, dealing with the death of his father, the difficulty of being Catholic in Edwardian England, World War I, etc.
Ford was somewhat unique in that he insisted on serving in uniform, even though he was too old and fat to pass a physical. He just kept trying, pulled strings and finally the manpower shortage was desperate to get him into uniform.
Interestingly, he really enjoyed Army life and even thought of staying in as an instructor, but decided writing was his calling. Most artists in uniform hate it. Waugh did.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 10:21 AM (llXky)
140
I am up the precipice now. Ugarit is the hot town.
Posted by: Jamaica NYC at August 06, 2023 10:21 AM (Eeb9P)
141
Gene Wolfe wrote an Introduction to a Clark Ashton Smith collection. In it, he was his usual very funny self and said something like: Smith chased women his whole life. This makes no sense to me. I've been married to the same woman my entire life and she is a different person every day.
Really cool way of addressing the actual pathology of womanizing. And that the surface chaos and excitement of pathological behavior is really just constant repitition. And the surface sameness of non-pathology is profoundly ever changing.
This also goes back to one of my hobbyhorses. Namely, that creativity requires restraint. This is why a thing like poetic structure when embraced is the best vehicle for profundity.
Or, on a base level, why Opie and Anthony became dull dull dull when they were given carte blanche.
And, vanilla is the most chemically complex "flavor".
Really cool way of addressing the actual pathology of womanizing. And that the surface chaos and excitement of pathological behavior is really just constant repitition. And the surface sameness of non-pathology is profoundly ever changing.
This also goes back to one of my hobbyhorses. Namely, that creativity requires restraint. This is why a thing like poetic structure when embraced is the best vehicle for profundity.
Or, on a base level, why Opie and Anthony became dull dull dull when they were given carte blanche.
And, vanilla is the most chemically complex "flavor".
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 10:22 AM (7epFj)
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 10:23 AM (omVj0)
143
If they can't blame Whitey and his Savior for the LBA collapse, the Left will wander in circles.
Posted by: Jamaica NYC at August 06, 2023 10:24 AM (Eeb9P)
144
AH Lloyd, I'm finally working through WALLS OF MEN and honestly it's a Wow.
For some reason it strikes me as circular or cyclical, the narrative isn't. It's not a linear progression.
I felt obligated to read the entire book to post a review and with the Spain book I went back and reread some of the polemics so that review didn't sound ignorant of the environment in which you wrote it.
For some reason it strikes me as circular or cyclical, the narrative isn't. It's not a linear progression.
I felt obligated to read the entire book to post a review and with the Spain book I went back and reread some of the polemics so that review didn't sound ignorant of the environment in which you wrote it.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 10:25 AM (/BBNv)
145
109... Wolfus,
Thanks for the recommendations about the Man From UNCLE books. Oddly, our local bookstore never has any copies. Either people hold on to them or they disappear as fast as they come in. Just ordered The Rainbow Affair and The Monster Wheel Affair (number. Should arrive in a week or so. If for some reason they no longer appeal to my older self, I can send them along to our niece and nephew who might enjoy them.
Thanks for the recommendations about the Man From UNCLE books. Oddly, our local bookstore never has any copies. Either people hold on to them or they disappear as fast as they come in. Just ordered The Rainbow Affair and The Monster Wheel Affair (number
. Should arrive in a week or so. If for some reason they no longer appeal to my older self, I can send them along to our niece and nephew who might enjoy them.Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 10:25 AM (7EjX1)
146
Halelujah! Got my 95 year old buddy kidnapped from ortho rehab and in Sunday School.
Posted by: Eromero at August 06, 2023 10:26 AM (DXbAa)
147
Another writer with a "normal" career was Brit mystery writers P.D. James. Her husband served in WWII and came back from the war with severe mental problems ( I believe he was diagnosed with schizophrenia). James remained married to him, but basically raised their 4 children by herself while caring for him and working full-time in the British civil service. She forced herself to write at night and didn't start publishing until the early 1960's. She once said that her poet/detective hero Adam Dalgliesh was her idea of the perfect man. I find him a very attractive character too, but find it rather sad that her coolly logical fictional creation was so different from her flesh-and-blood spouse, who must have been very difficult to deal with.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023 10:26 AM (HabA/)
148
The stakes Wodehouse wrote about weren't silly and small.
He was Kipling's equal.
To me, the whole thing us a deep honest contemplation of social structure.
But then I think Bertie is the hero. And Jeeves knows this too.
He was Kipling's equal.
To me, the whole thing us a deep honest contemplation of social structure.
But then I think Bertie is the hero. And Jeeves knows this too.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 10:27 AM (7epFj)
149
You, however, will move on, perhaps to another topic.
Posted by: As always, pedants are required, even if it's this pedant at August 06, 2023 10:09 AM (l4B/J)
Yes! Same goes for into and in to.
One does not (usually) turn "into" a parking lot. But one often turns in to a parking lot.
Posted by: As always, pedants are required, even if it's this pedant at August 06, 2023 10:09 AM (l4B/J)
Yes! Same goes for into and in to.
One does not (usually) turn "into" a parking lot. But one often turns in to a parking lot.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at August 06, 2023 10:27 AM (OX9vb)
150
AH Lloyd, I'm finally working through WALLS OF MEN and honestly it's a Wow.
For some reason it strikes me as circular or cyclical, the narrative isn't. It's not a linear progression.
I felt obligated to read the entire book to post a review and with the Spain book I went back and reread some of the polemics so that review didn't sound ignorant of the environment in which you wrote it.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 10:25 AM (/BBNv)
---
Glad you're enjoying it!
This week marked the first time in a long time that I felt the urge to write again. As in: dig in a get a book going. Definitely fiction this time. I need a break from the real world.
For some reason it strikes me as circular or cyclical, the narrative isn't. It's not a linear progression.
I felt obligated to read the entire book to post a review and with the Spain book I went back and reread some of the polemics so that review didn't sound ignorant of the environment in which you wrote it.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 10:25 AM (/BBNv)
---
Glad you're enjoying it!
This week marked the first time in a long time that I felt the urge to write again. As in: dig in a get a book going. Definitely fiction this time. I need a break from the real world.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 10:27 AM (llXky)
151
I didn't say I enjoyed it.
I said it's a Wow.
I said it's a Wow.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 10:29 AM (/BBNv)
152
This also goes back to one of my hobbyhorses. Namely, that creativity requires restraint. This is why a thing like poetic structure when embraced is the best vehicle for profundity.
Or, on a base level, why Opie and Anthony became dull dull dull when they were given carte blanche.
And, vanilla is the most chemically complex "flavor".
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 10:22 AM (7epFj)
Hmmm. I like this. It goes hand in hand with the idea that if you do not have a monolithic culture, there can be no counter culture. If you have no commonly held mores or taboos, you cannot tell when those boundaries are crossed.
If nothing is sacred, then nothing can be profane. Which is the motto of the libertine left/commies.
Or, on a base level, why Opie and Anthony became dull dull dull when they were given carte blanche.
And, vanilla is the most chemically complex "flavor".
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 10:22 AM (7epFj)
Hmmm. I like this. It goes hand in hand with the idea that if you do not have a monolithic culture, there can be no counter culture. If you have no commonly held mores or taboos, you cannot tell when those boundaries are crossed.
If nothing is sacred, then nothing can be profane. Which is the motto of the libertine left/commies.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 10:29 AM (zZu0s)
153
117
***
Detroit-based crime and Western writer Loren D. Estleman does very good pastiches; his stuff is approved by the Doyle estate. In fact I think his first novel way back in the '70s was Sherlock Holmes vs. Dracula!
****
That's a really good one! Although Estleman didn't pick the title; his working title was "The Adventure of the Sanguinary Count," which is far superior. (Publishers only care about sales figures -- or at least they used to.) But that book defaulted to Dracula; i.e., it assumed the reality of the supernatural. For the opposite approach (defaulting to Holmes, and the assumption that vampires do not exist), I can't stop recommending Sherlock Holmes: A Betrayal in Blood by Mark A. Latham, after which you will be unable to see Dracula in the same way again. Absolutely brilliant.
Come to think of it, a certain "William Escott" appears in two major scenes in the David McDaniel U.N.C.L.E. novel I mention above, The Rainbow Affair. The novel is not about him, but he features very importantly, and the scenes are very well done.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 10:08 AM
****
Just added it to my Abebooks.com shopping list. Thank you!
***
Detroit-based crime and Western writer Loren D. Estleman does very good pastiches; his stuff is approved by the Doyle estate. In fact I think his first novel way back in the '70s was Sherlock Holmes vs. Dracula!
****
That's a really good one! Although Estleman didn't pick the title; his working title was "The Adventure of the Sanguinary Count," which is far superior. (Publishers only care about sales figures -- or at least they used to.) But that book defaulted to Dracula; i.e., it assumed the reality of the supernatural. For the opposite approach (defaulting to Holmes, and the assumption that vampires do not exist), I can't stop recommending Sherlock Holmes: A Betrayal in Blood by Mark A. Latham, after which you will be unable to see Dracula in the same way again. Absolutely brilliant.
Come to think of it, a certain "William Escott" appears in two major scenes in the David McDaniel U.N.C.L.E. novel I mention above, The Rainbow Affair. The novel is not about him, but he features very importantly, and the scenes are very well done.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 10:08 AM
****
Just added it to my Abebooks.com shopping list. Thank you!
Posted by: werewife, princess of Delray Beach at August 06, 2023 10:30 AM (SPNTN)
154
I just finished “Radio’s Greatest of All Time: Rush Limbaugh”, transcripts from his show and testimonials compiled by his wife and his brother David. It made me sad because I miss Rush, but I was struck by what a kind, generous person he was. I remembered a lot of the segments, even ones from decades ago, which is also a testament to the MahaRushie.
Posted by: Norrin Radd at August 06, 2023 10:30 AM (PD6x0)
155
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 10:21 AM (llXky)
I guess I'm thinking of the whole idea of "bohemia" - artsy places where the starving artists and writers go to hang out with each other and lead unconventional lives. I think that is definitely a Romantic era thing. The problem nowadays is that all the old, famous Bohemian enclaves are terrifically expensive - Greenwich Village and the Left Bank are no longer places for poor artists but for artsy hipsters with trust funds.
I guess I'm thinking of the whole idea of "bohemia" - artsy places where the starving artists and writers go to hang out with each other and lead unconventional lives. I think that is definitely a Romantic era thing. The problem nowadays is that all the old, famous Bohemian enclaves are terrifically expensive - Greenwich Village and the Left Bank are no longer places for poor artists but for artsy hipsters with trust funds.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023 10:33 AM (HabA/)
156
She once said that her poet/detective hero Adam Dalgliesh was her idea of the perfect man. I find him a very attractive character too, but find it rather sad that her coolly logical fictional creation was so different from her flesh-and-blood spouse, who must have been very difficult to deal with.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023 10:26 AM (HabA/)
---
People write what they know, so she came up with the best of her husband to make an admirable character.
The "Man of Destiny" himself, Maxim Darius, is based on the late Jerry Roe, a real-life political operative and one of my mentors. Jerry was wonderful at politics, knew everyone, always had an angle, and it wasn't hard imagining him getting to the top of the greasy pole.
The big change? Jerry was an insatiable womanizer, while I wrote Maxim as too ambitious to be distracted by women.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023 10:26 AM (HabA/)
---
People write what they know, so she came up with the best of her husband to make an admirable character.
The "Man of Destiny" himself, Maxim Darius, is based on the late Jerry Roe, a real-life political operative and one of my mentors. Jerry was wonderful at politics, knew everyone, always had an angle, and it wasn't hard imagining him getting to the top of the greasy pole.
The big change? Jerry was an insatiable womanizer, while I wrote Maxim as too ambitious to be distracted by women.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 10:34 AM (llXky)
157
Good morning Hordemates.
Posted by: Diogenes at August 06, 2023 10:34 AM (e4fEA)
158
I guess I'm thinking of the whole idea of "bohemia" - artsy places where the starving artists and writers go to hang out with each other and lead unconventional lives. I think that is definitely a Romantic era thing. The problem nowadays is that all the old, famous Bohemian enclaves are terrifically expensive - Greenwich Village and the Left Bank are no longer places for poor artists but for artsy hipsters with trust funds.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023 10:33 AM (HabA/)
---
Hmmm, I think those actually existed (Paris between the wars) but the people there had done something besides being creative. They had lived (and fought) in a world war, for example. The modern version just wants to be cool or deep, and of course "flouting convention" doesn't work when your counterculture *IS* the culture.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023 10:33 AM (HabA/)
---
Hmmm, I think those actually existed (Paris between the wars) but the people there had done something besides being creative. They had lived (and fought) in a world war, for example. The modern version just wants to be cool or deep, and of course "flouting convention" doesn't work when your counterculture *IS* the culture.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 10:36 AM (llXky)
159
Not casting aspersions at anyone, but I have a theory that SciFi, alt-history, fantasy, etc. are so popular among aspiring authors because the writing doesn't have to be very good. The story and setting take precedence. While the closer the story comes to real life, the better the writing has to be.
Not casting aspersions at anyone, but I have a theory that SciFi, alt-history, fantasy, etc. are so popular among aspiring authors because the writing doesn't have to be very good. The story and setting take precedence. While the closer the story comes to real life, the better the writing has to be.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at August 06, 2023 10:37 AM (MoZTd)
160
Regarding the discussion of "worthy books" I give you Leigh Brackett, golden age SF writer (and woman, despite the fruit loops claiming women weren't published before 2001)
“Space opera, as every reader doubtless knows, is a pejorative term often applied to a story that has an element of adventure. Over the decades, brilliant and talented new writers appear, receiving great acclaim, and each and every one of them can be expected to write at least one article stating flatly that the day of space opera is over and done, thank goodness, and that henceforth these crude tales of interplanetary nonsense will be replaced by whatever type of story that writer happens to favor — closet dramas, psychological dramas, sex dramas, etc., but by God important dramas, containing nothing but Big Thinks. Ten years later, the writer in question may or may not still be around, but the space opera can be found right where it always was, sturdily driving its dark trade in heroes.”
“Space opera, as every reader doubtless knows, is a pejorative term often applied to a story that has an element of adventure. Over the decades, brilliant and talented new writers appear, receiving great acclaim, and each and every one of them can be expected to write at least one article stating flatly that the day of space opera is over and done, thank goodness, and that henceforth these crude tales of interplanetary nonsense will be replaced by whatever type of story that writer happens to favor — closet dramas, psychological dramas, sex dramas, etc., but by God important dramas, containing nothing but Big Thinks. Ten years later, the writer in question may or may not still be around, but the space opera can be found right where it always was, sturdily driving its dark trade in heroes.”
Posted by: Sabrina Chase at August 06, 2023 10:37 AM (6C6rD)
161
Also, how does one lead an "unconventional" life these days, after the Left has broken down so many conventions. Long hair, drug-taking, screwing around, being gay - all the things which used to signify a bohemian lifestyle are now mainstream. So you dye your hair purple, smoke pot, and stick safety pins in your face - congrats, you're just like a zillion other college kids.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023 10:38 AM (HabA/)
162
Gotta run. Thanks for the interesting comments and insights, horde! I love the Book Thread!
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023 10:40 AM (HabA/)
163
Honestly I'd do a Sherlock Holmes story where he gathers information for the sole purpose of hiding it from Watson and LeStrade and mocking them for not knowing what he knows. At the end, Watson gets sick of Moriarty who Holmes has not busted solely to maintain his unjustified position, and shoots him dead quite easily by walking into his office at the University.
Then Watson and LeStrade sew Holmes into a gunny sack and toss him into the Thames to drown.
The End.
Then Watson and LeStrade sew Holmes into a gunny sack and toss him into the Thames to drown.
The End.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 10:41 AM (/BBNv)
164
143 If they can't blame Whitey and his Savior for the LBA collapse, the Left will wander in circles.
Posted by: Jamaica NYC at August 06, 2023 10:24 AM (Eeb9P)
Heh. One source I've listened to (Robert Dise, who did an Ancient Empires Before Alexander" lecture series for The Great Courses) actually blames the Greeks for the Bronze Age Collapse. Specifically, the remnants of the Mycenaean city states after Trojan War. Dise hypothesizes that the city states were wrecked by civil strife after a way-too-long war, and that their now-veteran warriors just went on a rampage for loot and 'glory'.
I'm not sure there's a whole lot of actual evidence to support that reading, but it would make for a fantastic historical epic!
Posted by: Jamaica NYC at August 06, 2023 10:24 AM (Eeb9P)
Heh. One source I've listened to (Robert Dise, who did an Ancient Empires Before Alexander" lecture series for The Great Courses) actually blames the Greeks for the Bronze Age Collapse. Specifically, the remnants of the Mycenaean city states after Trojan War. Dise hypothesizes that the city states were wrecked by civil strife after a way-too-long war, and that their now-veteran warriors just went on a rampage for loot and 'glory'.
I'm not sure there's a whole lot of actual evidence to support that reading, but it would make for a fantastic historical epic!
Posted by: Castle Guy at August 06, 2023 10:42 AM (Lhaco)
165
The story and setting take precedence. While the closer the story comes to real life, the better the writing has to be.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at August 06, 2023 10:37 AM (MoZTd)
I'd say, it depends on the book/game/movie as always. I'd say it is easier for sci-fi/fantasy to capture the imagination in those genres and that CAN mean that a reader is not put off by the author's... foibles because the world becomes a living breathing thing to them and it allows them to wallpaper over the other. I'd say that was true for me with The Thomas Covenant Books (which are horrific when I reread them a decade or so ago, but as a teen they captured the imagination.) Or Mass Effect Andromeda (game.) The story and characters were formulaic and dull as dishwater respectively, but the setting/set up grabbed me in a way that not many games have.
So, I'd say you can be correct, but it is not a requirement. Good writing is good writing, regardless of genre- just as bad writing is.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at August 06, 2023 10:37 AM (MoZTd)
I'd say, it depends on the book/game/movie as always. I'd say it is easier for sci-fi/fantasy to capture the imagination in those genres and that CAN mean that a reader is not put off by the author's... foibles because the world becomes a living breathing thing to them and it allows them to wallpaper over the other. I'd say that was true for me with The Thomas Covenant Books (which are horrific when I reread them a decade or so ago, but as a teen they captured the imagination.) Or Mass Effect Andromeda (game.) The story and characters were formulaic and dull as dishwater respectively, but the setting/set up grabbed me in a way that not many games have.
So, I'd say you can be correct, but it is not a requirement. Good writing is good writing, regardless of genre- just as bad writing is.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 10:42 AM (zZu0s)
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at August 06, 2023 10:42 AM (MoZTd)
167
The stakes Wodehouse wrote about weren't silly and small.
He was Kipling's equal.
To me, the whole thing us a deep honest contemplation of social structure.
But then I think Bertie is the hero. And Jeeves knows this too.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 10:27 AM (7epFj)
Yeah, it's a common mistake to see humor as without value or purpose.
If Wodehouse was just silly and small, he would've been forgotten long ago as so many of his humorous contemporaries were. I suspect that a hundred years from now, assuming we get through this Grand Era of Ignorance and Stupidity intact, that Wodehouse will still be commonly read and enjoyed.
There are a lot of very funny novels written with very serious intent. Just last week "The Master and Margarita" got mention in the BT, which would be an example.
Though to be fair, even professional humorist and personal scumbag Woody Allen, who's comedies can delight and inform and who's dramas are by and large stone-cold obvious bores, says "Comedy is eating at the children table."
I disagree it's much harder to make someone laugh than make someone cry.
Rant off.
He was Kipling's equal.
To me, the whole thing us a deep honest contemplation of social structure.
But then I think Bertie is the hero. And Jeeves knows this too.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 10:27 AM (7epFj)
Yeah, it's a common mistake to see humor as without value or purpose.
If Wodehouse was just silly and small, he would've been forgotten long ago as so many of his humorous contemporaries were. I suspect that a hundred years from now, assuming we get through this Grand Era of Ignorance and Stupidity intact, that Wodehouse will still be commonly read and enjoyed.
There are a lot of very funny novels written with very serious intent. Just last week "The Master and Margarita" got mention in the BT, which would be an example.
Though to be fair, even professional humorist and personal scumbag Woody Allen, who's comedies can delight and inform and who's dramas are by and large stone-cold obvious bores, says "Comedy is eating at the children table."
I disagree it's much harder to make someone laugh than make someone cry.
Rant off.
Posted by: naturalfake at August 06, 2023 10:45 AM (QzZeQ)
168
Donnaxxxx, (I'm on a phone so copy paste I'm unclear on), according to my European Bohemian Leftist colleagues, my insistence on working at a supermarket and owning my own home and not bitching endlessly about how The Government should pay to Be Creative, makes me quite unconventional!
I'm not making this up, they think I'm crazy.
I'm not making this up, they think I'm crazy.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 10:46 AM (/BBNv)
169
Don't dream it, be it.
Posted by: Dr. Varno at August 06, 2023 10:46 AM (X+Ku8)
170
If nothing is sacred, then nothing can be profane. Which is the motto of the libertine left/commies.
Posted by: Aetius451AD
*******
I've been thinking along these same lines recently. I heard a spot-on description of humanists recently.
A humanist will tell you that before they were born there was no meaning, and after they die there is no meaning, yet we are supposed to believe that while they are alive they are the most important being in the world.
...sort of like vegans.
Posted by: Aetius451AD
*******
I've been thinking along these same lines recently. I heard a spot-on description of humanists recently.
A humanist will tell you that before they were born there was no meaning, and after they die there is no meaning, yet we are supposed to believe that while they are alive they are the most important being in the world.
...sort of like vegans.
Posted by: Muldoon at August 06, 2023 10:47 AM (l4B/J)
171
It's good to see King Harv embracing the AOSHQ lifestyle. Those cigar boats aren't just for running coffee.
Posted by: Dr. Bone at August 06, 2023 10:48 AM (KVGVf)
172
Of all the people who should avoid analogies involving children, Woody Allen is near the top. It's like Jeffrey Epstein using the phrase "like taking candy from a baby."
Posted by: PabloD at August 06, 2023 10:48 AM (O6+mq)
173
But just a generation or two behind me are those whose experience is more toward the newer dispersed mass media things, streaming, anime, etc., and common touchstones are being developed that I'm totally unaware of.
I'm becoming an out of touch oldster. That's life. Fortunately, there is a lot of the past for me still to mine.
Posted by: From about that Time at August 06, 2023 10:12 AM (4780s)
Part of that is because a heterogeneous culture used the same works and references everyone was (or could have been) aware of. Too many advancements in tech and other cultural traditions from foreign lands entering the culture makes so many choices available that quite a bit falls by the wayside as "old" and "outdated." Sorta sounds like something the commies did, if you ask me.
I'm becoming an out of touch oldster. That's life. Fortunately, there is a lot of the past for me still to mine.
Posted by: From about that Time at August 06, 2023 10:12 AM (4780s)
Part of that is because a heterogeneous culture used the same works and references everyone was (or could have been) aware of. Too many advancements in tech and other cultural traditions from foreign lands entering the culture makes so many choices available that quite a bit falls by the wayside as "old" and "outdated." Sorta sounds like something the commies did, if you ask me.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 10:49 AM (Angsy)
174
William Carlos Williams (doctor)
Wallace Stevens (insurance executive)
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at August 06, 2023
***
A.J. Cronin was a doctor too, I think. Somerset Maugham had qualified, i.e., finished medical school. So did Michael Crichton. And of course there was Arthur Conan Doyle, who actually practiced for a few years.
Wallace Stevens (insurance executive)
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at August 06, 2023
***
A.J. Cronin was a doctor too, I think. Somerset Maugham had qualified, i.e., finished medical school. So did Michael Crichton. And of course there was Arthur Conan Doyle, who actually practiced for a few years.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 10:50 AM (omVj0)
175
*ahem*
@167
Periods are important
I disagree. It's much harder to make someone laugh than make someone cry.
@167
Periods are important
I disagree. It's much harder to make someone laugh than make someone cry.
Posted by: naturalfake at August 06, 2023 10:50 AM (QzZeQ)
176
If no one knows what a pun is, then no one can tell it is a bad one.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 10:51 AM (zZu0s)
177
I disagree it's much harder to make someone laugh than make someone cry.
Rant off.
Posted by: naturalfake at August 06, 2023 10:45 AM (QzZeQ)
Dying is easy, comedy is hard. - Someone
Rant off.
Posted by: naturalfake at August 06, 2023 10:45 AM (QzZeQ)
Dying is easy, comedy is hard. - Someone
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 10:53 AM (Angsy)
178
Many years ago I read a piece by a dedicated Humanist guy who bluntly admitted that his beliefs in Science and Evolution meant human beings are monkeys killing each other over bananas. He then continued to say, He knew it was factual but it made him feel Icky so he would continue to vote and activist that human beings are Basically Good even though he KNEW it to be a total lie and that he was living a lie.
He fully accepted that contradiction and didn't care, and declared his intent to impose his vicious lie on me.
He fully accepted that contradiction and didn't care, and declared his intent to impose his vicious lie on me.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 10:53 AM (/BBNv)
179
Not casting aspersions at anyone, but ...
Posted by: Hadrian
*******
I'm not sure Officer, but I believe that was the moment when the fight broke out!
Posted by: Hadrian
*******
I'm not sure Officer, but I believe that was the moment when the fight broke out!
Posted by: Muldoon at August 06, 2023 10:54 AM (l4B/J)
180
He fully accepted that contradiction and didn't care, and declared his intent to impose his vicious lie on me.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 10:53 AM (/BBNv)
Well, he was an asshole.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 10:53 AM (/BBNv)
Well, he was an asshole.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 10:54 AM (zZu0s)
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at August 06, 2023 10:58 AM (OX9vb)
182
I've said it before, I utterly despise Woody Allen and everything he has ever done. And long before his Yellow Fever.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 10:58 AM (/BBNv)
183
Just ordered The Rainbow Affair and The Monster Wheel Affair (number [Eight]. Should arrive in a week or so. If for some reason they no longer appeal to my older self, I can send them along to our niece and nephew who might enjoy them.
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 1
***
Probably the two best of the twenty-three novels. (MfU had the longest run of original TV tie-in novels in history, until Trek spawned its fandom.)
McDaniel was a fan of the show itself, but he was also widely read. His first, Dagger Affair, gives us a statement of Thrush policy that is quite chilling in itself, and also because of its literary source. He was a clever and skillful writer who might have developed even more if he had not died young in a household accident. Clearly he had fun writing the novels, and we still have fun today reading them.
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 1
***
Probably the two best of the twenty-three novels. (MfU had the longest run of original TV tie-in novels in history, until Trek spawned its fandom.)
McDaniel was a fan of the show itself, but he was also widely read. His first, Dagger Affair, gives us a statement of Thrush policy that is quite chilling in itself, and also because of its literary source. He was a clever and skillful writer who might have developed even more if he had not died young in a household accident. Clearly he had fun writing the novels, and we still have fun today reading them.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 10:58 AM (omVj0)
184
Your cat may move onto something else next week, perhaps another book or bookshelf.
You, however, will move on, perhaps to another topic.
(*double-checks all those tags...*)
The only difference I see between those two examples is that one is a physical position and one is a metaphoric position. But it's a close call and if I wrote it, I would probably write "move on to." It's a recurring point of disagreement between autocorrect/autocomplete and me. In some way that I can't quite articulate, "some times" and "some place" are different from "sometimes" and "someplace."
You, however, will move on, perhaps to another topic.
(*double-checks all those tags...*)
The only difference I see between those two examples is that one is a physical position and one is a metaphoric position. But it's a close call and if I wrote it, I would probably write "move on to." It's a recurring point of disagreement between autocorrect/autocomplete and me. In some way that I can't quite articulate, "some times" and "some place" are different from "sometimes" and "someplace."
Posted by: Oddbob at August 06, 2023 10:58 AM (nfrXX)
185
He fully accepted that contradiction and didn't care, and declared his intent to impose his vicious lie on me.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 10:53 AM (/BBNv)
But yet, he would have fought like the dickens to keep you from killing him.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 10:53 AM (/BBNv)
But yet, he would have fought like the dickens to keep you from killing him.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 10:59 AM (Angsy)
186
The Humanist? Fight? No, he'd hire goons to fight me.
He's civilized you see.
He's civilized you see.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:01 AM (/BBNv)
187
I have read all 42 of the Robert B. Parker "Spenser" series, including all the ones written after his death, and all the Jesse Stone books. Enjoyable. I am now on book 4 of the "Bosch" books by Michael Connelly. Good, detailed, a bit dark specially compared to Spenser.
Posted by: Ciampino - Donald where's your trousers at August 06, 2023 11:02 AM (qfLjt)
188
I've always wondered if there is a term for this revelatory technique. In McDaniel's first U.N.C.L.E. novel, he has a scene where Mr. Waverly, the boss, is planning with a Thrush delegation (long and neat story) about sending Solo and Illya out to Los Angeles. Waverly adds, "I think we will be sending a third party."
"Separate accommodations?" asks the Thrush.
"Not at all," Waverly says. "I plan to work in the same conditions my men do."
This tells us Waverly plans to go on the mission without actually putting it into those words. (cont.)
"Separate accommodations?" asks the Thrush.
"Not at all," Waverly says. "I plan to work in the same conditions my men do."
This tells us Waverly plans to go on the mission without actually putting it into those words. (cont.)
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 11:02 AM (omVj0)
189
One does not (usually) turn "into" a parking lot. But one often turns in to a parking lot.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at
August 06, 2023 10:27 AM (OX9vb)
Prepositions are hard. Though I suspect Aquinas might argue the "into" vs "in to" is a spurious distinction.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at
August 06, 2023 10:27 AM (OX9vb)
Prepositions are hard. Though I suspect Aquinas might argue the "into" vs "in to" is a spurious distinction.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:03 AM (5nBkm)
190
Stray thought: what if the Trojan War _was_ the Bronze Age collapse, or at least an account of one part of it. Raiding Acheans wipe out a Hittite city, then their own economy and society collapse (=fall of the house of Atreus).
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 11:04 AM (QZxDR)
191
The Humanist? Fight? No, he'd hire goons to fight me.
He's civilized you see.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:01 AM (/BBNv)
Well, I mean, even if people were monkeys fighting over bananas and nothing mattered after death, who cares if people get murdered. They no longer exist and have no knowledge of what they missed out on, so it's the Crowley Principle.
He's civilized you see.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:01 AM (/BBNv)
Well, I mean, even if people were monkeys fighting over bananas and nothing mattered after death, who cares if people get murdered. They no longer exist and have no knowledge of what they missed out on, so it's the Crowley Principle.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:04 AM (Angsy)
192
Well about the Old Cat and The Kid freaking out, in fact I found her by casually kicking the paper bag and getting a resounding complaint. I'm like, Answer when we're looking for you! Really, it was like 20 minutes, wet food deployed, rattling cans and openers, No I kicked the paper bag she was Out Cold in.
Stupid cat.
Stupid cat.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:05 AM (/BBNv)
193
If memory serves, David McDaniel also wrote one of the novels based on Patrick McGoohan's The Prisoner series. There were three, I think, done by Thomas Disch, McDaniel, and Hank Stine; eons since I read 'em but as I recall it McDaniel's was the most fun.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 06, 2023 11:05 AM (a/4+U)
194
My sis had a great pic of a basset hound with reading glasses, reading a book. 😎
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at August 06, 2023 11:05 AM (f0XAF)
195
(cont.) Clifford Simak, in one of the City stories, also does this. In an outpost on one of Jupiter's moons, the team has lost several people who have been cast into the form of the local life form, the lopers, so that they can survive the hellish conditions. No one knows what happened to them. The commander of the group, who has his dog with him at the outpost, tells his secretary to prepare to send out two more members. "One of them," he says, "will be a dog."
His secretary is outraged. "Your dog! He's been with you for so many years --!"
"Exactly," says the commander. "He'd be disappointed if I left him behind."
Again, telling us something without actually saying it, and in a more memorable fashion. Is there a term for this? Obliqueness or something?
His secretary is outraged. "Your dog! He's been with you for so many years --!"
"Exactly," says the commander. "He'd be disappointed if I left him behind."
Again, telling us something without actually saying it, and in a more memorable fashion. Is there a term for this? Obliqueness or something?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 11:07 AM (omVj0)
196
Stray thought: what if the Trojan War _was_ the Bronze Age collapse, or at least an account of one part of it. Raiding Acheans wipe out a Hittite city, then their own economy and society collapse (=fall of the house of Atreus).
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 11:04 AM (QZxDR)
That, I think, is probably the correct theory. Troy was a crossroads between East and West. Once destroyed, no transit of goods or ideas made their way from one civ to another. Considering the Greeks were so obstreperous, it seems highly unlikely that all of them would band together because one king's wife ran off with another guy.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 11:04 AM (QZxDR)
That, I think, is probably the correct theory. Troy was a crossroads between East and West. Once destroyed, no transit of goods or ideas made their way from one civ to another. Considering the Greeks were so obstreperous, it seems highly unlikely that all of them would band together because one king's wife ran off with another guy.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:08 AM (Angsy)
197
"Clive's former Quartermaster Sergeant from Clive's regiment"
Quartermaster Sergeants were held in less than high esteem, as Kipling pointed out.
"Watch 'im, with 'is 'air cut,
Count us filin' by --
Won't the Colonel praise 'is
Pop -- u -- lar -- i -- ty!
We 'ave scores to settle --
Scores for more than beer;
She's the girl to pay 'em --
That is why we're 'ere!"
The Sergeant's Wedding
https://tinyl.io/96Hq
Quartermaster Sergeants were held in less than high esteem, as Kipling pointed out.
"Watch 'im, with 'is 'air cut,
Count us filin' by --
Won't the Colonel praise 'is
Pop -- u -- lar -- i -- ty!
We 'ave scores to settle --
Scores for more than beer;
She's the girl to pay 'em --
That is why we're 'ere!"
The Sergeant's Wedding
https://tinyl.io/96Hq
Posted by: SDN at August 06, 2023 11:08 AM (KdP4Y)
198
In some way that I can't quite articulate, "some times" and "some place" are different from "sometimes" and "someplace."
Posted by: Oddbob at August 06, 2023 10:58 AM (nfrXX)
Yes. I agree. It's fascinating. I feel the same.
"Some times I get drunk for weeks."
"Sometimes I get drunk for weeks."
Idk. The first seems less "abstract".
Posted by: Oddbob at August 06, 2023 10:58 AM (nfrXX)
Yes. I agree. It's fascinating. I feel the same.
"Some times I get drunk for weeks."
"Sometimes I get drunk for weeks."
Idk. The first seems less "abstract".
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:08 AM (5nBkm)
199
But yet, he would have fought like the dickens to keep you from killing him.
Well yeah. Those are his bananas, damn it!
Well yeah. Those are his bananas, damn it!
Posted by: Oddbob at August 06, 2023 11:08 AM (nfrXX)
200
I read Carol Roth's You Will Own Nothing this week. Very good as a history, but because it was finished before the Transheuser Busch situation, it doesn't recommend replacing products whose companies make it clear they hate you as a strategy. That strategy is FAR more realistic for those of us being slaughtered financially by inflation. Excellent, if a bit depressing, read.
Posted by: Catherine at August 06, 2023 10:15 AM (ZSsrh)
My copy arrived this week. I don't know that I want to read it, but thought I should at least buy it. Her previous book, "The War On Small Business," I started it, but couldn't finish, because it goes into excruciating detail about what we were all seeing in front of us.
In other words, she has the receipts, but we kinda knew it already. It's infuriating enough to live through it. I think this one is in the same arena, in that the same bad guys are behind it all, so we pretty much already know where this is going.
Posted by: Catherine at August 06, 2023 10:15 AM (ZSsrh)
My copy arrived this week. I don't know that I want to read it, but thought I should at least buy it. Her previous book, "The War On Small Business," I started it, but couldn't finish, because it goes into excruciating detail about what we were all seeing in front of us.
In other words, she has the receipts, but we kinda knew it already. It's infuriating enough to live through it. I think this one is in the same arena, in that the same bad guys are behind it all, so we pretty much already know where this is going.
Posted by: Your Neighbors at August 06, 2023 11:09 AM (IUr7k)
201
Jeez, yesterday's smell sock.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:09 AM (IUr7k)
202
Regarding Monkeys and Bananas, interestingly, that is exactly what I personally believe human beings to be.
Monotheism and Christianity can, and does, mitigate that biological reality.
So the Humanism stuff, which ultimately denies the biological reality of the Human, is total bullshit and I'll have nothing to do with it.
I got into it in this SciFi book, it's why it took so long.
Monotheism and Christianity can, and does, mitigate that biological reality.
So the Humanism stuff, which ultimately denies the biological reality of the Human, is total bullshit and I'll have nothing to do with it.
I got into it in this SciFi book, it's why it took so long.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:10 AM (/BBNv)
203
If memory serves, David McDaniel also wrote one of the novels based on Patrick McGoohan's The Prisoner series. There were three, I think, done by Thomas Disch, McDaniel, and Hank Stine; eons since I read 'em but as I recall it McDaniel's was the most fun.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 06, 2023
***
He also published an independent SF story in one of Jerry Pournelle's anthologies, picturing a future society and pretty much predicting cell phones as we know them today. He didn't call them that, but they work very much like our phones today. This was back in about 1970.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 06, 2023
***
He also published an independent SF story in one of Jerry Pournelle's anthologies, picturing a future society and pretty much predicting cell phones as we know them today. He didn't call them that, but they work very much like our phones today. This was back in about 1970.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 11:10 AM (omVj0)
204
Inside every humanist is a nihilist struggling to get out.
I think it's a delicious irony that though it is right there in front of them, they can't see that a large part of discovering "The Meaning of Life" (upper case) is the lifelong journey of discovering the meaning of life (lower case).
I think it's a delicious irony that though it is right there in front of them, they can't see that a large part of discovering "The Meaning of Life" (upper case) is the lifelong journey of discovering the meaning of life (lower case).
Posted by: Muldoon at August 06, 2023 11:10 AM (l4B/J)
205
Yeah, it's a common mistake to see humor as without value or purpose.
If Wodehouse was just silly and small, he would've been forgotten long ago as so many of his humorous contemporaries were. I suspect that a hundred years from now, assuming we get through this Grand Era of Ignorance and Stupidity intact, that Wodehouse will still be commonly read and enjoyed.
Posted by: naturalfake at August 06, 2023 10:45 AM (QzZeQ)
---
I never said he wasn't funny, I merely pointed out that the stakes were silly and small, which they were - and which was the point.
Wodehouse specialized in charming, amusing tales and people like them. Whether they will endure is an open question. I think they survive today because Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie's adaptions brought them alive to a new generation.
But will comedy that rests on long-abandoned conventions survive another generation?
If Wodehouse was just silly and small, he would've been forgotten long ago as so many of his humorous contemporaries were. I suspect that a hundred years from now, assuming we get through this Grand Era of Ignorance and Stupidity intact, that Wodehouse will still be commonly read and enjoyed.
Posted by: naturalfake at August 06, 2023 10:45 AM (QzZeQ)
---
I never said he wasn't funny, I merely pointed out that the stakes were silly and small, which they were - and which was the point.
Wodehouse specialized in charming, amusing tales and people like them. Whether they will endure is an open question. I think they survive today because Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie's adaptions brought them alive to a new generation.
But will comedy that rests on long-abandoned conventions survive another generation?
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:11 AM (llXky)
206
Thanks everyone
Posted by: actually inside the beltway at August 06, 2023 11:11 AM (We9fe)
207
Stray thought: what if the Trojan War _was_ the Bronze Age collapse, or at least an account of one part of it. Raiding Acheans wipe out a Hittite city, then their own economy and society collapse (=fall of the house of Atreus).
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 11:04 AM (QZxDR)
Yes. It is the story of the collapse of the Age of Bronze into the Age of Iron.
They are the sons of the Bronze Age Heroes.
Homer wrote in the beginning of a new Age about the end of the last Age.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 11:04 AM (QZxDR)
Yes. It is the story of the collapse of the Age of Bronze into the Age of Iron.
They are the sons of the Bronze Age Heroes.
Homer wrote in the beginning of a new Age about the end of the last Age.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:12 AM (5nBkm)
208
Worst thing about the great Old Cat Hunt? I had the thought, she's old. It wouldn't be a terrible thing If she just went to sleep somewhere in her own house, comfortable, and just didn't wake up.
Then I kicked her awake and she was pissed!
Then I kicked her awake and she was pissed!
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:12 AM (/BBNv)
209
Good Morning!
Let's smile & be happy & strike fear into the heart of killjoy leftists everywhere.
Late to the party. Was rereading Long Live Death, on the Spanish Civil War. Until 0600.
Let's smile & be happy & strike fear into the heart of killjoy leftists everywhere.
Late to the party. Was rereading Long Live Death, on the Spanish Civil War. Until 0600.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at August 06, 2023 11:13 AM (u82oZ)
210
He also published an independent SF story in one of Jerry Pournelle's anthologies, picturing a future society and pretty much predicting cell phones as we know them today. He didn't call them that, but they work very much like our phones today. This was back in about 1970.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 11:10 AM (omVj0)
The Bell System was probably working on those in the 40s.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 11:10 AM (omVj0)
The Bell System was probably working on those in the 40s.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:13 AM (Angsy)
211
Your cat may move onto something else next week, perhaps another book or bookshelf.
You, however, will move on, perhaps to another topic.
(*double-checks all those tags...*)
The only difference I see between those two examples is that one is a physical position and one is a metaphoric position. But it's a close call and if I wrote it, I would probably write "move on to." It's a recurring point of disagreement between autocorrect/autocomplete and me. In some way that I can't quite articulate, "some times" and "some place" are different from "sometimes" and "someplace."
Posted by: Oddbob at August 06, 2023 10:58 AM (nfrXX)
The distinction hinges on the verb "move on." It's defined as a verb that way in M-W, which I loathe for its inclusion of "irregardless," but have to admit is the authority. So that expression always has to be "move on to" another idea, no matter what the idiots that program autocucumber think.
You, however, will move on, perhaps to another topic.
(*double-checks all those tags...*)
The only difference I see between those two examples is that one is a physical position and one is a metaphoric position. But it's a close call and if I wrote it, I would probably write "move on to." It's a recurring point of disagreement between autocorrect/autocomplete and me. In some way that I can't quite articulate, "some times" and "some place" are different from "sometimes" and "someplace."
Posted by: Oddbob at August 06, 2023 10:58 AM (nfrXX)
The distinction hinges on the verb "move on." It's defined as a verb that way in M-W, which I loathe for its inclusion of "irregardless," but have to admit is the authority. So that expression always has to be "move on to" another idea, no matter what the idiots that program autocucumber think.
Posted by: Catherine at August 06, 2023 11:14 AM (ZSsrh)
212
Stray thought: what if the Trojan War _was_ the Bronze Age collapse, or at least an account of one part of it. Raiding Acheans wipe out a Hittite city, then their own economy and society collapse (=fall of the house of Atreus).
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 11:04 AM (QZxDR)
---
And what if the Illiad was a reliable account of the spiritual dimension of the war as well?
Basically enough of the 70 powers and principalities that rules the 70 nations had succumbed to the temptation of worship to start waging war on each other by way of their human followers.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 11:04 AM (QZxDR)
---
And what if the Illiad was a reliable account of the spiritual dimension of the war as well?
Basically enough of the 70 powers and principalities that rules the 70 nations had succumbed to the temptation of worship to start waging war on each other by way of their human followers.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:15 AM (llXky)
Posted by: JackStraw at August 06, 2023 11:15 AM (ZLI7S)
214
Of all the people who should avoid analogies involving children, Woody Allen is near the top. It's like Jeffrey Epstein using the phrase "like taking candy from a baby."
Posted by: PabloD at August 06, 2023 10:48 AM (O6+mq)
What's the story of the scapegoat? The thing that is loaded up with all the problems, and chased out of town?
That's Epstein. We were all supposed to believe that once Epstein was dead (wink wink), all those pesky sex pervert crimes would be a thing of the past.
Sure. The goat is living in luxurious solitude somewhere, and everyone else returns to business as usual: the business of buggering children.
Posted by: PabloD at August 06, 2023 10:48 AM (O6+mq)
What's the story of the scapegoat? The thing that is loaded up with all the problems, and chased out of town?
That's Epstein. We were all supposed to believe that once Epstein was dead (wink wink), all those pesky sex pervert crimes would be a thing of the past.
Sure. The goat is living in luxurious solitude somewhere, and everyone else returns to business as usual: the business of buggering children.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:16 AM (ie/z9)
215
Late to the party. Was rereading Long Live Death, on the Spanish Civil War. Until 0600.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at August 06, 2023 11:13 AM (u82oZ)
---
That's some dedication!
Late to the party. Was rereading Long Live Death, on the Spanish Civil War. Until 0600.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at August 06, 2023 11:13 AM (u82oZ)
---
That's some dedication!
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:16 AM (llXky)
216
>>>Idk. The first seems less "abstract".
Posted by: Thesokorus
>Some times the peanut butter is licked clean.
Sometimes I lament the loss of my husband.
Some times I shed a tear.
Posted by: Thesokorus
>Some times the peanut butter is licked clean.
Sometimes I lament the loss of my husband.
Some times I shed a tear.
Posted by: Dr. Jill at August 06, 2023 11:17 AM (KVGVf)
217
Wait, the Bell System caused the Bronze Age Collapse? I'm getting lost here.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:19 AM (/BBNv)
218
And what if the Illiad was a reliable account of the spiritual dimension of the war as well?
Basically enough of the 70 powers and principalities that rules the 70 nations had succumbed to the temptation of worship to start waging war on each other by way of their human followers.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:15 AM (llXky)
Yes. The gods were real back then. When the actual "Greek" alliance fought the actual "Trojan" alliance beneath the actual walls of the actual Troy.
Something profound happened in the world at the Fall of Troy and the gods receeded.
By Homer's time, the god's had become abstractions in ppl's heads.
Basically enough of the 70 powers and principalities that rules the 70 nations had succumbed to the temptation of worship to start waging war on each other by way of their human followers.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:15 AM (llXky)
Yes. The gods were real back then. When the actual "Greek" alliance fought the actual "Trojan" alliance beneath the actual walls of the actual Troy.
Something profound happened in the world at the Fall of Troy and the gods receeded.
By Homer's time, the god's had become abstractions in ppl's heads.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:20 AM (5nBkm)
219
Stray thought: what if the Trojan War _was_ the Bronze Age collapse, or at least an account of one part of it. Raiding Acheans wipe out a Hittite city, then their own economy and society collapse (=fall of the house of Atreus).
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 11:04 AM (QZxDR)
The Trojan war was the last phase of empires after the exhaustion of Egypt and Hattusha after the battle of Kadesh, the Greek city states decided to take their major trading center to Anatolia which collapsed the coalitions in Western Anatolia, and it was followed by a collapse of the Tin trade routes. Coupled with a decade drought in Anatolia, the Hittites collapsed and at the same time the Greeks decided to take everything that was still standing, raiding down the Mediterranean borders to Egypt
The Bronze age became a highly centralized trading and metal working cultures, dependent on rare sources of tin and copper. The collapse was the economic situation becoming too complex for the mechanisms of the cultures to adapt and coordinate around the problems, and so broke into smaller warring fragments.
The Greeks had the greatest mobility and the least resources so they turned to raiding.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 06, 2023 11:04 AM (QZxDR)
The Trojan war was the last phase of empires after the exhaustion of Egypt and Hattusha after the battle of Kadesh, the Greek city states decided to take their major trading center to Anatolia which collapsed the coalitions in Western Anatolia, and it was followed by a collapse of the Tin trade routes. Coupled with a decade drought in Anatolia, the Hittites collapsed and at the same time the Greeks decided to take everything that was still standing, raiding down the Mediterranean borders to Egypt
The Bronze age became a highly centralized trading and metal working cultures, dependent on rare sources of tin and copper. The collapse was the economic situation becoming too complex for the mechanisms of the cultures to adapt and coordinate around the problems, and so broke into smaller warring fragments.
The Greeks had the greatest mobility and the least resources so they turned to raiding.
Posted by: Kindltot at August 06, 2023 11:22 AM (xhaym)
220
147 Another writer with a "normal" career was Brit mystery writers P.D. James. Her husband served in WWII and came back from the war with severe mental problems ( I believe he was diagnosed with schizophrenia). James remained married to him, but basically raised their 2 children by herself while caring for him and working full-time in the British civil service. She forced herself to write at night and didn't start publishing until the early 1960's. She once said that her poet/detective hero Adam Dalgliesh was her idea of the perfect man. I find him a very attractive character too, but find it rather sad that her coolly logical fictional creation was so different from her flesh-and-blood spouse, who must have been very difficult to deal with.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023 10:26 AM (HabA/)
Her husband eventually killed himself, and James found him. She continued to write excellent crime novels after that, some with grisly deaths.
But she was of the "Keep Calm and Carry On" and "Mustn't grumble" WWII generation. She had a family to support. She was eventually able to leave her job and write fulltime.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at August 06, 2023 10:26 AM (HabA/)
Her husband eventually killed himself, and James found him. She continued to write excellent crime novels after that, some with grisly deaths.
But she was of the "Keep Calm and Carry On" and "Mustn't grumble" WWII generation. She had a family to support. She was eventually able to leave her job and write fulltime.
Posted by: Wethal at August 06, 2023 11:22 AM (NufIr)
221
>Some times the peanut butter is licked clean.
Sometimes I lament the loss of my husband.
Some times I shed a tear.
Posted by: Dr. Jill at August 06, 2023 11:17 AM (KVGVf)
Sometimes I am not sure if someone is agreeing with me or not.
Some times I am not sure if some one is agreeing with me or not.
Sometimes I lament the loss of my husband.
Some times I shed a tear.
Posted by: Dr. Jill at August 06, 2023 11:17 AM (KVGVf)
Sometimes I am not sure if someone is agreeing with me or not.
Some times I am not sure if some one is agreeing with me or not.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:22 AM (5nBkm)
222
Wait, the Bell System caused the Bronze Age Collapse? I'm getting lost here.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:19 AM (/BBNv)
Probably. Even in the early days, a phone call cost a nickel. No one was using bronze. Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee dimes.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:19 AM (/BBNv)
Probably. Even in the early days, a phone call cost a nickel. No one was using bronze. Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee dimes.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:22 AM (ie/z9)
223
Wait, the Bell System caused the Bronze Age Collapse? I'm getting lost here.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023
***
Those cheap bastards the Hittites refused to pay what they called outrageous phone bills, sparking a boycott of the products, and one thing led to another.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023
***
Those cheap bastards the Hittites refused to pay what they called outrageous phone bills, sparking a boycott of the products, and one thing led to another.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 11:23 AM (omVj0)
224
Wait, the Bell System caused the Bronze Age Collapse? I'm getting lost here.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:19 AM (/BBNv)
Well, with the collapse of the Bell System, the Copper Age ended and we entered the Fiber Optics Age
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:19 AM (/BBNv)
Well, with the collapse of the Bell System, the Copper Age ended and we entered the Fiber Optics Age
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:23 AM (Angsy)
225
And speaking of comedy vs. drama, if we're being honest most folks would rather read one of my limericks than my musings on deep philosophical topics. So here you go:
Hypocritical Thinker - a limerick
Most Philosophy majors are bores
To get laid they hire hookers. Alors!!
But I'll say in their defense
Some forego that vain pretense
And try to put Descartes before the whores
Hypocritical Thinker - a limerick
Most Philosophy majors are bores
To get laid they hire hookers. Alors!!
But I'll say in their defense
Some forego that vain pretense
And try to put Descartes before the whores
Posted by: Muldoon at August 06, 2023 11:24 AM (l4B/J)
226
Okay, at work last night in between power outage in town that flooded the store with face tattooed miscreants, I thought about a comment the other day from the Democratic Underground liaison wondering why this relatively unmoderated place isn't overrun with Leftist Trolls.
Well, it's rather fast paced, and my opinion most people here are rational human beings with rather well thought opinions, who are generally willing to accept criticism.
I'm not saying that's me, but it's a feature of the comments. I've seen people here admit they're wrong, and/or admit wrongdoing.
Won't see that on too many boards.
Well, it's rather fast paced, and my opinion most people here are rational human beings with rather well thought opinions, who are generally willing to accept criticism.
I'm not saying that's me, but it's a feature of the comments. I've seen people here admit they're wrong, and/or admit wrongdoing.
Won't see that on too many boards.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:25 AM (/BBNv)
227
Hypocritical Thinker - a limerick
Most Philosophy majors are bores
To get laid they hire hookers. Alors!!
But I'll say in their defense
Some forego that vain pretense
And try to put Descartes before the whores
Posted by: Muldoon at August 06, 2023
***
Brilliant stuff, Muldoon!
Most Philosophy majors are bores
To get laid they hire hookers. Alors!!
But I'll say in their defense
Some forego that vain pretense
And try to put Descartes before the whores
Posted by: Muldoon at August 06, 2023
***
Brilliant stuff, Muldoon!
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 11:25 AM (omVj0)
228
Some times I am not sure if some one is agreeing with me or not.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:22 AM (5nBkm)
Some times is more than no times, and less than a bunch of times, right? So let us embrace some of the times now, while we look forward to more of the some times in the future.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:22 AM (5nBkm)
Some times is more than no times, and less than a bunch of times, right? So let us embrace some of the times now, while we look forward to more of the some times in the future.
Posted by: Kamala Harris at August 06, 2023 11:25 AM (PiwSw)
229
Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee dimes.
Posted by: BurtTC
*******
It was the best of dimes. It was the worst of dimes...
Posted by: BurtTC
*******
It was the best of dimes. It was the worst of dimes...
Posted by: Muldoon at August 06, 2023 11:26 AM (l4B/J)
230
Also, this place has a wry and corrosive sense of humor so one must be ready, and I think most Dogmatic Marxists don't appreciate humor at all.
Don't want birds, don't put out the seed.
Don't want birds, don't put out the seed.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:27 AM (/BBNv)
231
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 11:10 AM (omVj0)
The Bell System was probably working on those in the 40s.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:13 AM (Angsy)
Probably to unravel such things now, but the phone was an early example of big business hitting on a concept that they knew would captivate humanity... so they got people to spend exponentially more money on using the product than it cost to produce and operate.
Now, you can say the market dictates price. Sure. But when people have no way of knowing what it costs, "the market" is ripe for predatory price gouging. And Ma Bell was as guilty of that as anybody.
The Bell System was probably working on those in the 40s.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:13 AM (Angsy)
Probably to unravel such things now, but the phone was an early example of big business hitting on a concept that they knew would captivate humanity... so they got people to spend exponentially more money on using the product than it cost to produce and operate.
Now, you can say the market dictates price. Sure. But when people have no way of knowing what it costs, "the market" is ripe for predatory price gouging. And Ma Bell was as guilty of that as anybody.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:27 AM (ie/z9)
232
So I've read the Old Man's War series by Scalzi. He's an excellent writer, despite coming across as a distasteful person. I followed up that series with the Fleet of Worlds trilogy by Niven (love his works) and even reread Foundation by Asimov.
And yet there's one set of books that I haven't delved into, the Hyperion series by Simmons. I've hesitated, because I don't know if I would like it or not. It seems a mix of hard Sci-Fi with Lovecraftian elements. Now I think both of those are cool, I just don't know if they would mix well for good reading. I guess it comes down to individual expectations.
If anyone has completed the Hyperion Cantos quartet, please share your opinion and thoughts.
And yet there's one set of books that I haven't delved into, the Hyperion series by Simmons. I've hesitated, because I don't know if I would like it or not. It seems a mix of hard Sci-Fi with Lovecraftian elements. Now I think both of those are cool, I just don't know if they would mix well for good reading. I guess it comes down to individual expectations.
If anyone has completed the Hyperion Cantos quartet, please share your opinion and thoughts.
Posted by: Tracy at August 06, 2023 11:28 AM (GnaxG)
233
Yes. The gods were real back then. When the actual "Greek" alliance fought the actual "Trojan" alliance beneath the actual walls of the actual Troy.
Something profound happened in the world at the Fall of Troy and the gods receeded.
By Homer's time, the god's had become abstractions in ppl's heads.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:20 AM (5nBkm)
---
They built all those temples to abstractions?
No, the same gods are still around today, just in different guise, still stirring humanity to rebel against God.
The "tell" is the way they are reverting to the same sins - sexual depravity, slavery, and of course defying the Lord's commandments. That's why so much emphasis is being put on having church denominations perform blasphemous rites.
Something profound happened in the world at the Fall of Troy and the gods receeded.
By Homer's time, the god's had become abstractions in ppl's heads.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:20 AM (5nBkm)
---
They built all those temples to abstractions?
No, the same gods are still around today, just in different guise, still stirring humanity to rebel against God.
The "tell" is the way they are reverting to the same sins - sexual depravity, slavery, and of course defying the Lord's commandments. That's why so much emphasis is being put on having church denominations perform blasphemous rites.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:28 AM (llXky)
234
"Well, I mean, even if people were monkeys fighting over bananas and nothing mattered after death, who cares if people get murdered."
Stupid wager.
Stupid wager.
Posted by: Blaise Pascal at August 06, 2023 11:29 AM (jgJfd)
235
Behind every Greek god, there is and was a demon.
Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at August 06, 2023 11:30 AM (jgJfd)
236
Thanks Perfessor and participating hordelings. Another good one.
Posted by: TRex at August 06, 2023 11:30 AM (IQ6Gq)
237
I insist in a number of my more goofy treatises to differentiate between 'something', 'some thing', and 'some Thing'.
Thing being in the Biblical sense of being a Thing, which capitalized is a Name, as distinct from something which could be anything.
I did a lot of work on that with the Ikon book.
Thing being in the Biblical sense of being a Thing, which capitalized is a Name, as distinct from something which could be anything.
I did a lot of work on that with the Ikon book.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:32 AM (/BBNv)
238
Probably to unravel such things now, but the phone was an early example of big business hitting on a concept that they knew would captivate humanity... so they got people to spend exponentially more money on using the product than it cost to produce and operate.
Now, you can say the market dictates price. Sure. But when people have no way of knowing what it costs, "the market" is ripe for predatory price gouging. And Ma Bell was as guilty of that as anybody.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:27 AM (ie/z9)
---
Utilities are different than other enterprises.
Now, you can say the market dictates price. Sure. But when people have no way of knowing what it costs, "the market" is ripe for predatory price gouging. And Ma Bell was as guilty of that as anybody.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:27 AM (ie/z9)
---
Utilities are different than other enterprises.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:32 AM (llXky)
239
Now, you can say the market dictates price. Sure. But when people have no way of knowing what it costs, "the market" is ripe for predatory price gouging. And Ma Bell was as guilty of that as anybody.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:27 AM (ie/z9)
They probably did, and deserved maybe to be taken apart, but I noticed around the breakup, that a lot of the phones coming on the market from other companies were not the same quality as the Bell phones. I had a GE, which you think they would know something about electrical devices, always had a nasty buzz. For landlines, the Bell phones were best.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:27 AM (ie/z9)
They probably did, and deserved maybe to be taken apart, but I noticed around the breakup, that a lot of the phones coming on the market from other companies were not the same quality as the Bell phones. I had a GE, which you think they would know something about electrical devices, always had a nasty buzz. For landlines, the Bell phones were best.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:32 AM (Angsy)
240
Those cheap bastards the Hittites refused to pay what they called outrageous phone bills, sparking a boycott of the products, and one thing led to another.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 11:23 AM (omVj0)
Everyone knows the Battle of Kadesh was due to the fact every time the Pharaoh called, they wouldn't reverse the charges.
Everyone knows that.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 11:23 AM (omVj0)
Everyone knows the Battle of Kadesh was due to the fact every time the Pharaoh called, they wouldn't reverse the charges.
Everyone knows that.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:33 AM (PE7Mp)
Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at August 06, 2023 11:33 AM (jgJfd)
242
The only difference I see between those two examples is that one is a physical position and one is a metaphoric position.
Thinking about it while shaving, I have changed my mind. There is a difference and it's subtle enough that it may vary by reader. "Onto" directs the reader's attention to the object -- the thing being moved onto -- and "on to" directs it to the verb -- the act of moving.
Incidentally, I find shaving and driving good times to mull over abstract things. My theory is that for both of those activities, the brain has to be turned on and watching for anything unexpected to happen. But unless and until it does, there's not much for it to do.
Thinking about it while shaving, I have changed my mind. There is a difference and it's subtle enough that it may vary by reader. "Onto" directs the reader's attention to the object -- the thing being moved onto -- and "on to" directs it to the verb -- the act of moving.
Incidentally, I find shaving and driving good times to mull over abstract things. My theory is that for both of those activities, the brain has to be turned on and watching for anything unexpected to happen. But unless and until it does, there's not much for it to do.
Posted by: Oddbob at August 06, 2023 11:34 AM (nfrXX)
243
Behind every Greek god, there is and was a demon.
Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at August 06, 2023 11:30 AM (jgJfd)
---
Yep, and the emergence of Greek philosophers in no way signaled a departure from pagan norms of worship. Yes, the Greek gods fell into disrepute, but that was because new ones arrived via overseas trade to replace them.
The ancients were always looking to back the "strong god," so whoever seemed to follow through on their prophesies got bigger temples and more extravagant sacrifices.
Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at August 06, 2023 11:30 AM (jgJfd)
---
Yep, and the emergence of Greek philosophers in no way signaled a departure from pagan norms of worship. Yes, the Greek gods fell into disrepute, but that was because new ones arrived via overseas trade to replace them.
The ancients were always looking to back the "strong god," so whoever seemed to follow through on their prophesies got bigger temples and more extravagant sacrifices.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:34 AM (llXky)
244
What is the complete title and name of the author for the book about the LBC? 1277 BC Cline search comes up empty for me.
It's Mile of Music week so no reading as the search for new favorite bands is in full swing. Leading the pack, Jon Tyler Wiley and His Virginia Choir, Fantastic Cat, Certainly So, The Stews, and Free Dirt.
It's Mile of Music week so no reading as the search for new favorite bands is in full swing. Leading the pack, Jon Tyler Wiley and His Virginia Choir, Fantastic Cat, Certainly So, The Stews, and Free Dirt.
Posted by: who knew at August 06, 2023 11:34 AM (4I7VG)
245
Well we are beyond books so movie thread it is. I watched Pig last night and thoroughly enjoyed it for a second time. Then it was followed by Pig in the Big City which I was ignorant that Pig had sequel. It was awful. Bizarre and hideous while being visually interesting. The original movie was essentially Charlotte’s Web with Charlotte the spider being replaced by a sheepdog bitch. It was lovely. I can’t imagine why the sequel went hard dystopia much less the budget it must have required. I stopped watching it roughly 30 minutes into it. Rancid really.
Posted by: Puddinhead at August 06, 2023 11:35 AM (/UtnQ)
246
>>Idk. The first seems less "abstract".
Posted by: Thesokorus
There are some times when I am drunk for days.
Sometimes I am drunk for days.
Posted by: Thesokorus
There are some times when I am drunk for days.
Sometimes I am drunk for days.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at August 06, 2023 11:35 AM (OX9vb)
Posted by: javems at August 06, 2023 11:35 AM (AmoqO)
248
They probably did, and deserved maybe to be taken apart, but I noticed around the breakup, that a lot of the phones coming on the market from other companies were not the same quality as the Bell phones. I had a GE, which you think they would know something about electrical devices, always had a nasty buzz. For landlines, the Bell phones were best.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:32 AM (Angsy)
Well sure, everyone also knows phone devices are a racket.
I'm speaking mostly of the services though. Bell charged people outrageous sums for phone service, and then after the breakup, those avaricious long distance carriers continued the practice. So needless to say, the government didn't do a damn thing for the consumer, just spread the grift around.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:32 AM (Angsy)
Well sure, everyone also knows phone devices are a racket.
I'm speaking mostly of the services though. Bell charged people outrageous sums for phone service, and then after the breakup, those avaricious long distance carriers continued the practice. So needless to say, the government didn't do a damn thing for the consumer, just spread the grift around.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:35 AM (PE7Mp)
249
For me the difference between move on to and move onto has to do with the directionality of the action. The cat moves itself. Where? Onto another pile of books.
Whereas the Perfessor "moves on". Away from this topic and to something else. Catherine has it right @211
Whereas the Perfessor "moves on". Away from this topic and to something else. Catherine has it right @211
Posted by: Muldoon at August 06, 2023 11:36 AM (l4B/J)
250
Currently reading the Mercedes Lackey series that starts with Fire Rose. On the third book now.
Posted by: vic at August 06, 2023 11:36 AM (A5THL)
251
Behind every Greek god, there is and was a demon.
Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at August 06, 2023p/i]
***
I'm trying to think of the quintessential portrayal of the ancient Greek gods on movies or TV. There was Michael Forrest's Apollo on Trek; Laurence Olivier's Zeus in the original Clash of the Titans; and the merry little blonde who played Aphrodite on Hercules and Xena. Plus whoever played Ares on that same pair of shows, and the actress as the black-haired minor goddess, Discord, also on those, were superb.
There was a brief TV series about fifteen years ago called Valentine with some good casting too, Jaime Murray as Aphrodite and Patrick Fabian as Hephaestus.
Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at August 06, 2023p/i]
***
I'm trying to think of the quintessential portrayal of the ancient Greek gods on movies or TV. There was Michael Forrest's Apollo on Trek; Laurence Olivier's Zeus in the original Clash of the Titans; and the merry little blonde who played Aphrodite on Hercules and Xena. Plus whoever played Ares on that same pair of shows, and the actress as the black-haired minor goddess, Discord, also on those, were superb.
There was a brief TV series about fifteen years ago called Valentine with some good casting too, Jaime Murray as Aphrodite and Patrick Fabian as Hephaestus.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 11:37 AM (omVj0)
252
|| They probably did, and deserved maybe to be taken apart
When we talk about whether or not AT&T should have been broken up, I think it's important to note that the government created that monopoly, driving their competitors out of business.
|| 241 P.D. James wrote the excellent "Children of Men" book. The film turned the story inside-out.
I did not know that. The movie didn't make a lick of sense.
When we talk about whether or not AT&T should have been broken up, I think it's important to note that the government created that monopoly, driving their competitors out of business.
|| 241 P.D. James wrote the excellent "Children of Men" book. The film turned the story inside-out.
I did not know that. The movie didn't make a lick of sense.
Posted by: blake at August 06, 2023 11:37 AM (lpWi1)
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 11:37 AM (omVj0)
254
They built all those temples to abstractions?
No, the same gods are still around today, just in different guise, still stirring humanity to rebel against God.
The "tell" is the way they are reverting to the same sins - sexual depravity, slavery, and of course defying the Lord's commandments. That's why so much emphasis is being put on having church denominations perform blasphemous rites.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:28 AM (llXky)
The later temples were built to abstractions. That's why they are so mathematical etc etc
The gods receeded they didn't die.
No, the same gods are still around today, just in different guise, still stirring humanity to rebel against God.
The "tell" is the way they are reverting to the same sins - sexual depravity, slavery, and of course defying the Lord's commandments. That's why so much emphasis is being put on having church denominations perform blasphemous rites.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:28 AM (llXky)
The later temples were built to abstractions. That's why they are so mathematical etc etc
The gods receeded they didn't die.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:38 AM (5nBkm)
255
If anyone has completed the Hyperion Cantos quartet, please share your opinion and thoughts.
Posted by: Tracy at August 06, 2023 11:28 AM (GnaxG)
It's among my favorite books. Brilliant writing, characterization, far-future world-building. Stories within stories. Literary references (Chaucer, Keats).
Warning, if you start Book 1, you have to read Book 2. Book 1 ends on a unsatisfying cliffhanger.
Posted by: Tracy at August 06, 2023 11:28 AM (GnaxG)
It's among my favorite books. Brilliant writing, characterization, far-future world-building. Stories within stories. Literary references (Chaucer, Keats).
Warning, if you start Book 1, you have to read Book 2. Book 1 ends on a unsatisfying cliffhanger.
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at August 06, 2023 11:38 AM (PiwSw)
256
Well, I'm up to book 5 now in the Laundry Files series by Charles Stross. Think Deep Sevens, etc. as mention by Glenn Reynolds.
Initially, I liked it considerably, especially as the series is seriously Lovecraftian. However, the gloss is starting to wear off for a number of reasons. First, although I understand the need to get a new reader up to speed if he/she doesn't start with book 1, he's considerably to repetitive in restating the base assumptions of the story line. Second, and much more damning, he gratuitously inserts his politics into the story and so much so, that it crashes the "suspension of disbelief", to use Stephen King's phrasing.
I'll probably buy book 6 but if Stross doesn't start improving on these counts, I may stop there.
Initially, I liked it considerably, especially as the series is seriously Lovecraftian. However, the gloss is starting to wear off for a number of reasons. First, although I understand the need to get a new reader up to speed if he/she doesn't start with book 1, he's considerably to repetitive in restating the base assumptions of the story line. Second, and much more damning, he gratuitously inserts his politics into the story and so much so, that it crashes the "suspension of disbelief", to use Stephen King's phrasing.
I'll probably buy book 6 but if Stross doesn't start improving on these counts, I may stop there.
Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at August 06, 2023 11:38 AM (/HDaX)
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:38 AM (llXky)
258
And I see that Catherine has already made the point while I was away.
Posted by: Oddbob at August 06, 2023 11:38 AM (nfrXX)
Posted by: moviegique at August 06, 2023 11:39 AM (lpWi1)
260
Dang. Mention = mentioned and to repetitive = too repetitive.
Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at August 06, 2023 11:39 AM (/HDaX)
261
225 ... "Hypocritical Thinker - a limerick
Most Philosophy majors are bores
To get laid they hire hookers. Alors!!
But I'll say in their defense
Some forego that vain pretense
And try to put Descartes before the whores"
I never tire of Muldoon's limericks with their humor and creativity. (That's why I bought his book.) They add a bit of sunshine to the day.
Most Philosophy majors are bores
To get laid they hire hookers. Alors!!
But I'll say in their defense
Some forego that vain pretense
And try to put Descartes before the whores"
I never tire of Muldoon's limericks with their humor and creativity. (That's why I bought his book.) They add a bit of sunshine to the day.
Posted by: JTB at August 06, 2023 11:40 AM (7EjX1)
262
Aptitude, talent, skill; these words apply to all things including writing.
A smug attitude about anything is unbecoming.
A smug attitude about anything is unbecoming.
Posted by: Dr. Bone at August 06, 2023 11:40 AM (KVGVf)
263
Well we are beyond books so movie thread it is. I watched Pig last night and thoroughly enjoyed it for a second time. Then it was followed by Pig in the Big City which I was ignorant that Pig had sequel. It was awful. Bizarre and hideous while being visually interesting. The original movie was essentially Charlotte’s Web with Charlotte the spider being replaced by a sheepdog bitch. It was lovely. I can’t imagine why the sequel went hard dystopia much less the budget it must have required. I stopped watching it roughly 30 minutes into it. Rancid really.
Posted by: Puddinhead at August 06, 2023 11:35 AM (/UtnQ)
Oh, you mean Babe! I thought you meant the Nick Cage film, which I forgot about, and definitely want to see.
Yeah, Babe is cute, the sequel is dark and creepy.
Posted by: Puddinhead at August 06, 2023 11:35 AM (/UtnQ)
Oh, you mean Babe! I thought you meant the Nick Cage film, which I forgot about, and definitely want to see.
Yeah, Babe is cute, the sequel is dark and creepy.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:40 AM (PE7Mp)
264
That fight over bananas? You're not really dead. Because you were never alive in the first place.
Kill! Kill! Kill!
Kill! Kill! Kill!
Posted by: Alexander Oparin at August 06, 2023 11:40 AM (/BBNv)
265
The later temples were built to abstractions. That's why they are so mathematical etc etc
The gods receeded they didn't die.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:38 AM (5nBkm)
---
They didn't recede until the rise of Christianity.
Sacrificing to "love" rather than Aphrodite is a distinction without a difference.
The gods receeded they didn't die.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:38 AM (5nBkm)
---
They didn't recede until the rise of Christianity.
Sacrificing to "love" rather than Aphrodite is a distinction without a difference.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:41 AM (llXky)
266
That, I think, is probably the correct theory. Troy was a crossroads between East and West. Once destroyed, no transit of goods or ideas made their way from one civ to another. Considering the Greeks were so obstreperous, it seems highly unlikely that all of them would band together because one king's wife ran off with another guy.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:08 AM (Angsy)
Trade and control of trade routes is probably a better explanation- no matter how epic her rack was.
If the greeks destroyed troy to try to control the routes and then in turn the routes collapsed instead of them gaining control of them, well that is just Heinlein's 'Bad Luck.'
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:08 AM (Angsy)
Trade and control of trade routes is probably a better explanation- no matter how epic her rack was.
If the greeks destroyed troy to try to control the routes and then in turn the routes collapsed instead of them gaining control of them, well that is just Heinlein's 'Bad Luck.'
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 11:41 AM (zZu0s)
267
It's 1177bc
Posted by: From about that Time at August 06, 2023 11:42 AM (4780s)
268
At least "Le Chapps" guy owns a weed-wacker!
Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at August 06, 2023 11:42 AM (pJWtt)
269
262 Aptitude, talent, skill; these words apply to all things including writing.
A smug attitude about anything is unbecoming.
Posted by: Dr. Bone at August 06, 2023 11:40 AM (KVGVf)
A thing that most of Trump's detractors do not seem to get.
They radiate, often, a class/cultural hatred of an 'uncouth swine.'
A smug attitude about anything is unbecoming.
Posted by: Dr. Bone at August 06, 2023 11:40 AM (KVGVf)
A thing that most of Trump's detractors do not seem to get.
They radiate, often, a class/cultural hatred of an 'uncouth swine.'
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 11:42 AM (zZu0s)
270
Regarding Monkeys and Bananas, interestingly, that is exactly what I personally believe human beings to be.
Monotheism and Christianity can, and does, mitigate that biological reality.
So the Humanism stuff, which ultimately denies the biological reality of the Human, is total bullshit and I'll have nothing to do with it.
I got into it in this SciFi book, it's why it took so long.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:10 AM (/BBNv)
You forget that humans are also able to forecast the multiple futures, treat them all as real, forecast from those futures, and decide which ones are the best ones to live in. We are unique in that, and a lot of our ability to be more than "just monkey" comes from that. There is no faith, no justice and no mercy in the world, those are solely human things. The fact they exist and we are able to plot a course to achieve them is proof that we are more than monkeys.
Monotheism and Christianity can, and does, mitigate that biological reality.
So the Humanism stuff, which ultimately denies the biological reality of the Human, is total bullshit and I'll have nothing to do with it.
I got into it in this SciFi book, it's why it took so long.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:10 AM (/BBNv)
You forget that humans are also able to forecast the multiple futures, treat them all as real, forecast from those futures, and decide which ones are the best ones to live in. We are unique in that, and a lot of our ability to be more than "just monkey" comes from that. There is no faith, no justice and no mercy in the world, those are solely human things. The fact they exist and we are able to plot a course to achieve them is proof that we are more than monkeys.
Posted by: Kindltot at August 06, 2023 11:42 AM (xhaym)
271
In my Sci Fi book the elev pod operator is named Bob H and he talks in garbled quotes from THE MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESS.
Posted by: Alexander Oparin at August 06, 2023 11:43 AM (/BBNv)
272
They didn't recede until the rise of Christianity.
Sacrificing to "love" rather than Aphrodite is a distinction without a difference.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:41 AM (llXky)
That set off Peter Cetera in my head.
Thanks.*
*not really
Sacrificing to "love" rather than Aphrodite is a distinction without a difference.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:41 AM (llXky)
That set off Peter Cetera in my head.
Thanks.*
*not really
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 11:43 AM (zZu0s)
273
It would be funny if CBD devoted part of the Food Thread to banana-related recipes.
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at August 06, 2023 11:43 AM (PiwSw)
274
It's 1177bc
Posted by: From about that Time at August 06, 2023 11:42 AM (4780s)
Crap! It's time to change the clocks again?!
Posted by: From about that Time at August 06, 2023 11:42 AM (4780s)
Crap! It's time to change the clocks again?!
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:45 AM (Angsy)
275
Trade and control of trade routes is probably a better explanation- no matter how epic her rack was.
If the greeks destroyed troy to try to control the routes and then in turn the routes collapsed instead of them gaining control of them, well that is just Heinlein's 'Bad Luck.'
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 11:41 AM (zZu0s)
---
How many Troys were there, though? What made that one the important one?
Sacking a city might mean only a change in ownership or the replacement of the ruling dynasty. Larger forces were at work, which is probably why the Greeks showed up.
If the greeks destroyed troy to try to control the routes and then in turn the routes collapsed instead of them gaining control of them, well that is just Heinlein's 'Bad Luck.'
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 11:41 AM (zZu0s)
---
How many Troys were there, though? What made that one the important one?
Sacking a city might mean only a change in ownership or the replacement of the ruling dynasty. Larger forces were at work, which is probably why the Greeks showed up.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:45 AM (llXky)
276
Kindltot, I suspect you deal with a completely different cohort of human beings than I do.
Posted by: Alexander Oparin at August 06, 2023 11:46 AM (/BBNv)
277
There are 2,164 Greek Gods known to us. Personally, I think there were 2166 in total since this number resolves to the square root of 2. the Greeks were profoundly rational and 2 is the most rational number in the universe. Imma pretty sure 2166 would build a perfect sphere if connected together with six pointed joints. I see the Greek cosmology as the many faces of God.
Posted by: Puddinhead at August 06, 2023 11:46 AM (/UtnQ)
278
I’m almost finished the biography of Leonardo DaVinci by Walter Issacson. I don’t think it was his intention to make me think less of DaVinci than the level I had him in my head from osmosis of the conventional wisdom floating around.
Posted by: polynikes at August 06, 2023 11:46 AM (MNhXM)
279
They didn't recede until the rise of Christianity.
Sacrificing to "love" rather than Aphrodite is a distinction without a difference.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:41 AM (llXky)
We disagree. No biggie. No way to tell.
But Classical Greece had completely lost the thread. The myths were just plain ignorance.
Christ came onto a scene of total religious collapse beneath even superstition.
Sacrificing to "love" rather than Aphrodite is a distinction without a difference.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:41 AM (llXky)
We disagree. No biggie. No way to tell.
But Classical Greece had completely lost the thread. The myths were just plain ignorance.
Christ came onto a scene of total religious collapse beneath even superstition.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:46 AM (5nBkm)
280
A thing that most of Trump's detractors do not seem to get.
They radiate, often, a class/cultural hatred of an 'uncouth swine.'
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 11:42 AM (zZu0s)
I listened to about 10 minutes of his "speech" last night. I put the word into scare quotes, because it's so mesmerizing watching him speak. He's clearly not reading off notes, and he doesn't really waste words (unless you consider his well known phrases to be wasteful). He hits one point, moves to the next, hits that one, then moves on.
There's a brilliance to it. I mean, I guess he's been practicing it long enough, it's almost like a standup routine at this point, but he's very good at it. At the very least you get the sense he means what he says, in contrast to damn near every other politician.
They radiate, often, a class/cultural hatred of an 'uncouth swine.'
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 11:42 AM (zZu0s)
I listened to about 10 minutes of his "speech" last night. I put the word into scare quotes, because it's so mesmerizing watching him speak. He's clearly not reading off notes, and he doesn't really waste words (unless you consider his well known phrases to be wasteful). He hits one point, moves to the next, hits that one, then moves on.
There's a brilliance to it. I mean, I guess he's been practicing it long enough, it's almost like a standup routine at this point, but he's very good at it. At the very least you get the sense he means what he says, in contrast to damn near every other politician.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:47 AM (PE7Mp)
281
It would be funny if CBD devoted part of the Food Thread to banana-related recipes.
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes,
********
Let me revise my previous statement, Officer. THAT is when the fight broke out. Buncha damn monkeys!
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes,
********
Let me revise my previous statement, Officer. THAT is when the fight broke out. Buncha damn monkeys!
Posted by: Muldoon at August 06, 2023 11:47 AM (l4B/J)
282
There are 2,164 Greek Gods known to us. Personally, I think there were 2166 in total since this number resolves to the square root of 2. the Greeks were profoundly rational and 2 is the most rational number in the universe. Imma pretty sure 2166 would build a perfect sphere if connected together with six pointed joints. I see the Greek cosmology as the many faces of God.
Posted by: Puddinhead at August 06, 2023 11:46 AM (/UtnQ)
Maybe so. Maybe so. Also why they insisted on Euclids parallelism despite knowing it wasn't necessary.
Theodorus' Spiral
Posted by: Puddinhead at August 06, 2023 11:46 AM (/UtnQ)
Maybe so. Maybe so. Also why they insisted on Euclids parallelism despite knowing it wasn't necessary.
Theodorus' Spiral
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:48 AM (5nBkm)
283
Whoops. I meant I mostly deal with people who are not deep thinkers.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:48 AM (/BBNv)
284
There are 2,164 Greek Gods known to us. Personally, I think there were 2166 in total since this number resolves to the square root of 2. the Greeks were profoundly rational and 2 is the most rational number in the universe. Imma pretty sure 2166 would build a perfect sphere if connected together with six pointed joints. I see the Greek cosmology as the many faces of God.
Posted by: Puddinhead at August 06, 2023 11:46 AM (/UtnQ)
---
How many of those were aspects of the same god, though? Baal, Zeus and Odin are likely the same entity.
And the Greeks did track various versions of "Zeus" all over the place.
Posted by: Puddinhead at August 06, 2023 11:46 AM (/UtnQ)
---
How many of those were aspects of the same god, though? Baal, Zeus and Odin are likely the same entity.
And the Greeks did track various versions of "Zeus" all over the place.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:48 AM (llXky)
285
I am so damded old that most of my authors are either dead (Margaret Maron, for example) or retired (Carol O'Connell). And a couple of them (Kathy Reichs) should just throw in the towel and retire. Sadly, my brain doesn't function as well as it should, so though I pick up the occasional non-fiction book, I generally wind up reading the first couple of chapters and that's it.
Grammie winger feels she is reading "inconsequential" books that make her inconsequential. I am mumble mumble years old, have all the required history courses for a bachelor's degree (no science, no math, no degree), and worked as a bookseller for twenty-five years, eighteen of those owning my own store. What am I reading these days? Trashy urban fantasy without a speck of social or historical meaning.
When I worked for Waldenbooks, two of my biggest trashy romance buyers were lawyers. Why? Because they just needed a mental break from legalese. Mike Harper, CEO of ConAgra, read trashy Westerns.
What you read is up to you.. There is no requirement that people should read only "serious" books. Reading, except for text books, is a pleasure, not a job.
Grammie winger feels she is reading "inconsequential" books that make her inconsequential. I am mumble mumble years old, have all the required history courses for a bachelor's degree (no science, no math, no degree), and worked as a bookseller for twenty-five years, eighteen of those owning my own store. What am I reading these days? Trashy urban fantasy without a speck of social or historical meaning.
When I worked for Waldenbooks, two of my biggest trashy romance buyers were lawyers. Why? Because they just needed a mental break from legalese. Mike Harper, CEO of ConAgra, read trashy Westerns.
What you read is up to you.. There is no requirement that people should read only "serious" books. Reading, except for text books, is a pleasure, not a job.
Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin -- Persian cats are nothing more than 24/7 shedding machines. at August 06, 2023 11:49 AM (B7rlW)
286
the Greeks were profoundly rational
Posted by: Puddinhead at August 06, 2023 11:46 AM (/UtnQ)
Maybe not:
https://tinyurl.com/2dj8buu5
PS: I have that book
Posted by: Puddinhead at August 06, 2023 11:46 AM (/UtnQ)
Maybe not:
https://tinyurl.com/2dj8buu5
PS: I have that book
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:49 AM (Angsy)
287
What you read is up to you.. There is no requirement that people should read only "serious" books. Reading, except for text books, is a pleasure, not a job.
===
!
===
!
Posted by: runner at August 06, 2023 11:50 AM (V13WU)
288
It would be funny if CBD devoted part of the Food Thread to banana-related recipes.
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper
There's a better chance of him dressing up as Chiquita Banana.
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper
There's a better chance of him dressing up as Chiquita Banana.
Posted by: JT at August 06, 2023 11:51 AM (T4tVD)
289
What you read is up to you.. There is no requirement that people should read only "serious" books. Reading, except for text books, is a pleasure, not a job.
Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin -- Persian cats are nothing more than 24/7 shedding machines. at August 06, 2023
***
John Dickson Carr had one of his detective heroes, Dr. Gideon Fell the historian/lexicographer, say, "I've been improving my mind with sensational fiction for forty years."
Amen to that.
Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin -- Persian cats are nothing more than 24/7 shedding machines. at August 06, 2023
***
John Dickson Carr had one of his detective heroes, Dr. Gideon Fell the historian/lexicographer, say, "I've been improving my mind with sensational fiction for forty years."
Amen to that.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 11:52 AM (omVj0)
290
I don't believe it's off-topic, one of the most difficult issues I deal with in Eastern Orthodox Christian Theology is trying to pound into people's heads that folding all the Pagan gods into a single, non personified and graspable Energy Source that can never be pictured or comprehended is itself the final form of Paganism.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:52 AM (/BBNv)
291
How many Troys were there, though? What made that one the important one?
Sacking a city might mean only a change in ownership or the replacement of the ruling dynasty. Larger forces were at work, which is probably why the Greeks showed up.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:45 AM (llXky)
If it is the right city, at the right time, it only could take one.
Trade can allow you to overcome disruptions to at home supply. If those trade routes disappear? And then a famine rips through your territory?
If you look at early Roman Republic history, a LOT of their early conquests were trying to gain access to different farmable areas (be it Magna Grecia, Campania all the way up to Sicily.) They suffered MANY famines in the early years and that drove a lot of their policy.
Sacking a city might mean only a change in ownership or the replacement of the ruling dynasty. Larger forces were at work, which is probably why the Greeks showed up.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:45 AM (llXky)
If it is the right city, at the right time, it only could take one.
Trade can allow you to overcome disruptions to at home supply. If those trade routes disappear? And then a famine rips through your territory?
If you look at early Roman Republic history, a LOT of their early conquests were trying to gain access to different farmable areas (be it Magna Grecia, Campania all the way up to Sicily.) They suffered MANY famines in the early years and that drove a lot of their policy.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 11:52 AM (zZu0s)
292
We disagree. No biggie. No way to tell.
But Classical Greece had completely lost the thread. The myths were just plain ignorance.
Christ came onto a scene of total religious collapse beneath even superstition.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:46 AM (5nBkm)
---
Greece was secular?
But Classical Greece had completely lost the thread. The myths were just plain ignorance.
Christ came onto a scene of total religious collapse beneath even superstition.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:46 AM (5nBkm)
---
Greece was secular?
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:53 AM (llXky)
293
When I worked for Waldenbooks, two of my biggest trashy romance buyers were lawyers. Why? Because they just needed a mental break from legalese. Mike Harper, CEO of ConAgra, read trashy Westerns.
What you read is up to you.. There is no requirement that people should read only "serious" books. Reading, except for text books, is a pleasure, not a job.
Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin -- Persian cats are nothing more than 24/7 shedding machines. at August 06, 2023 11:49 AM (B7rlW)
Can you give us an example of a trashy Western ?
What you read is up to you.. There is no requirement that people should read only "serious" books. Reading, except for text books, is a pleasure, not a job.
Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin -- Persian cats are nothing more than 24/7 shedding machines. at August 06, 2023 11:49 AM (B7rlW)
Can you give us an example of a trashy Western ?
Posted by: JT at August 06, 2023 11:53 AM (T4tVD)
294
290 I don't believe it's off-topic, one of the most difficult issues I deal with in Eastern Orthodox Christian Theology is trying to pound into people's heads that folding all the Pagan gods into a single, non personified and graspable Energy Source that can never be pictured or comprehended is itself the final form of Paganism.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:52 AM (/BBNv)
Sol Invictus. El Gabaal(sp?)
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:52 AM (/BBNv)
Sol Invictus. El Gabaal(sp?)
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 11:53 AM (zZu0s)
295
Crap! It's time to change the clocks again?!
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:45 AM (Angsy)
I saw a vid recently, someone had to explain what AD stood for. Apparently the kids don't know, and think it means something else, something stupid. I forget what, it was that stupid.
Anyhoo, that's why I moved to Arizona, so I don't have to do the stupid clock thing twice a year.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:45 AM (Angsy)
I saw a vid recently, someone had to explain what AD stood for. Apparently the kids don't know, and think it means something else, something stupid. I forget what, it was that stupid.
Anyhoo, that's why I moved to Arizona, so I don't have to do the stupid clock thing twice a year.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:53 AM (QynZB)
296
I pick the books I read mainly based on the author’s ability not to make me work at reading. It should be as easy as watching TV ( since I play the book in my head like a movie when reading) .
Posted by: polynikes at August 06, 2023 11:53 AM (MNhXM)
297
Bananas? Lizzo?
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:54 AM (/BBNv)
298
John Dickson Carr had one of his detective heroes, Dr. Gideon Fell the historian/lexicographer, say, "I've been improving my mind with sensational fiction for forty years."
Amen to that.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023
***
Now, that said, you'll be aware (especially if you're a writer or want to be one) that a lot of the "sensational" fiction is not Great Literature. But you will also be aware -- if you're honest -- that a lot of Great Literature is dull as hell.
Amen to that.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023
***
Now, that said, you'll be aware (especially if you're a writer or want to be one) that a lot of the "sensational" fiction is not Great Literature. But you will also be aware -- if you're honest -- that a lot of Great Literature is dull as hell.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 11:54 AM (omVj0)
299
There's a brilliance to it. I mean, I guess he's been practicing it long enough, it's almost like a standup routine at this point, but he's very good at it. At the very least you get the sense he means what he says, in contrast to damn near every other politician.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:47 AM (PE7Mp)
JUST LIKE HITLER!!!!!!11
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:47 AM (PE7Mp)
JUST LIKE HITLER!!!!!!11
Posted by: Leftists at August 06, 2023 11:55 AM (Angsy)
Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 06, 2023 11:55 AM (a/4+U)
301
V.K. Arsenyev (Arseniev) was a Tsarist officer and Siberian explorer in part funded by the Russian Geographical Society. The English language Wikipedia entry on him is sparse and very incomplete - the Russian wiki is very detailed and worth a visit. He wrote a memoir and biography called Dersu Uzala.
Communication in remote districts happened the old fashioned way - word of mouth. Arsenyev would discover villagers would know of his movements days and days ahead of his arrival.
Communication in remote districts happened the old fashioned way - word of mouth. Arsenyev would discover villagers would know of his movements days and days ahead of his arrival.
Posted by: 13times at August 06, 2023 11:56 AM (oiGpJ)
302
If it is the right city, at the right time, it only could take one.
Trade can allow you to overcome disruptions to at home supply. If those trade routes disappear? And then a famine rips through your territory?
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 11:52 AM (zZu0s)
---
It's arguably a chicken/egg debate, but I think it's also likely that as the trade routes began to break down, armies tried to clear/plunder what remained.
Thus Troy's siege was symptom of the collapse, not a cause.
Kind of a cargo cult mentality. "Hmm, the trade fleet didn't arrive. Let's go to Troy and make them send it!"
Trade can allow you to overcome disruptions to at home supply. If those trade routes disappear? And then a famine rips through your territory?
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 11:52 AM (zZu0s)
---
It's arguably a chicken/egg debate, but I think it's also likely that as the trade routes began to break down, armies tried to clear/plunder what remained.
Thus Troy's siege was symptom of the collapse, not a cause.
Kind of a cargo cult mentality. "Hmm, the trade fleet didn't arrive. Let's go to Troy and make them send it!"
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:56 AM (llXky)
303
Trashy Western: LONGARM.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:56 AM (/BBNv)
304
There's a brilliance to it. I mean, I guess he's been practicing it long enough, it's almost like a standup routine at this point, but he's very good at it. At the very least you get the sense he means what he says, in contrast to damn near every other politician.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:47 AM (PE7Mp)
I said it when I listened to him in 2015 and have repeated it since; Trump knows how to work a room. He has a natural talent for it.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:47 AM (PE7Mp)
I said it when I listened to him in 2015 and have repeated it since; Trump knows how to work a room. He has a natural talent for it.
Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at August 06, 2023 11:57 AM (BdMk6)
305
Bananas? Lizzo?
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:54 AM (/BBNv)
Ewww, please don't go there.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:54 AM (/BBNv)
Ewww, please don't go there.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 11:57 AM (QynZB)
306
Whoops. I meant I mostly deal with people who are not deep thinkers.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:48 AM (/BBNv)
I used to work with CPS. I also used to paint houses. When I was working with CPS I got the feeling that all families, all kids, everyone was screwed up.
I call that "The House-Painters' Bias"
When you paint houses you look at rotten trim, chipping paint, uncared for window trim at about 1-1/2 feet distance all day long, every day in the Summer, and eventually every house you see on the street as you drive along at 25mph makes you think "that house needs to be painted"
You can take what you like from that. My suggestion is that if you get your house painted, get someone with a good reputation.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:48 AM (/BBNv)
I used to work with CPS. I also used to paint houses. When I was working with CPS I got the feeling that all families, all kids, everyone was screwed up.
I call that "The House-Painters' Bias"
When you paint houses you look at rotten trim, chipping paint, uncared for window trim at about 1-1/2 feet distance all day long, every day in the Summer, and eventually every house you see on the street as you drive along at 25mph makes you think "that house needs to be painted"
You can take what you like from that. My suggestion is that if you get your house painted, get someone with a good reputation.
Posted by: Kindltot at August 06, 2023 11:57 AM (xhaym)
307
Well, time is short. Thanks again, Perfesser!
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:57 AM (llXky)
308
In before the nood!
Posted by: 13times at August 06, 2023 11:57 AM (oiGpJ)
309
Welp, time to finish up the Sunday morning chores. Once again a fine Book Thread! JTB, please let us know if you like the two U.N.C.L.E. novels!
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 11:58 AM (omVj0)
310
Greece was secular?
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:53 AM (llXky)
Functionally so yes.
Were there pockets of powerful superstitions? Sure.
But it was entirely degenerate and divorced from any understanding of what the stories they told meant.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:53 AM (llXky)
Functionally so yes.
Were there pockets of powerful superstitions? Sure.
But it was entirely degenerate and divorced from any understanding of what the stories they told meant.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:58 AM (5nBkm)
Posted by: Muldoon at August 06, 2023 11:58 AM (l4B/J)
312
The Greek cosmology is three dimensional. The problem with monotheism is that it encourages schizophrenia in its followers. The early church had to start printing Saints to make it work for Roman polytheists.
Posted by: Puddinhead at August 06, 2023 11:58 AM (/UtnQ)
313
In the novelization of THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY, the character played by Eastwood wasn't named Blondie his name was Whitey.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:59 AM (/BBNv)
314
Can you give us an example of a trashy Western ?
Posted by: JT at August 06, 2023 11:53 AM (T4tVD)
I'm working on one now....
Posted by: JT at August 06, 2023 11:53 AM (T4tVD)
I'm working on one now....
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 11:59 AM (Angsy)
315
Kind of a cargo cult mentality. "Hmm, the trade fleet didn't arrive. Let's go to Troy and make them send it!"
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:56 AM (llXky)
That's it exactly. Then throw in say, a plague (small pox was a big one, but they mention an early precursor to Bubonic on the LBAC wiki page.) Europe went pretty wacky during the 1300s. In the absence of the Church as a unifying force? Who the hell knows.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:56 AM (llXky)
That's it exactly. Then throw in say, a plague (small pox was a big one, but they mention an early precursor to Bubonic on the LBAC wiki page.) Europe went pretty wacky during the 1300s. In the absence of the Church as a unifying force? Who the hell knows.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 11:59 AM (zZu0s)
316
^^^^^ Greece meaning Classical and later Greece.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:59 AM (5nBkm)
317
I'm a huge fan of total trash paperback fiction, it's so shameless.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:59 AM (/BBNv)
318
I said it when I listened to him in 2015 and have repeated it since; Trump knows how to work a room. He has a natural talent for it.
Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at August 06, 2023 11:57 AM (BdMk6)
Sorry I’m with Thomas Sowell on this subject and have felt that way since I first became more aware of Trump in the early 80’s .
Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at August 06, 2023 11:57 AM (BdMk6)
Sorry I’m with Thomas Sowell on this subject and have felt that way since I first became more aware of Trump in the early 80’s .
Posted by: polynikes at August 06, 2023 12:00 PM (MNhXM)
319
Trashy Western: LONGARM.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023
***
I had to look that series up. Four hundred and thirty-six novels from 1978 to 2015? My gosh.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023
***
I had to look that series up. Four hundred and thirty-six novels from 1978 to 2015? My gosh.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 12:00 PM (omVj0)
Posted by: BurtTC at August 06, 2023 12:01 PM (QynZB)
321
317 I'm a huge fan of total trash paperback fiction, it's so shameless.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:59 AM (/BBNv)
Cap'n Sabin worked the convention zine scene, IIRC. She knows shameless trash.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 11:59 AM (/BBNv)
Cap'n Sabin worked the convention zine scene, IIRC. She knows shameless trash.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 12:01 PM (zZu0s)
Posted by: Skip at August 06, 2023 12:02 PM (MOY79)
323
There was a whole genre of horny graphic Westerns lol
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 12:02 PM (5nBkm)
324
311 Hasta lumbago** y'all
**I'll be back (pain)
Posted by: Muldoon at August 06, 2023 11:58 AM (l4B/J)
Juice!
**I'll be back (pain)
Posted by: Muldoon at August 06, 2023 11:58 AM (l4B/J)
Juice!
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at August 06, 2023 12:02 PM (PiwSw)
325
316 ^^^^^ Greece meaning Classical and later Greece.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:59 AM (5nBkm)
Both Macedonians and Greeks might argue at being lumped in together.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 11:59 AM (5nBkm)
Both Macedonians and Greeks might argue at being lumped in together.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 12:02 PM (zZu0s)
326
Chapter 5
…
Dr. Baker:
I was never jealous of Paul, that kind of feeling was no more, but looking back, I am a little envious that, lacking anything — tools, training, technique — because of something about him, he positively affected, directly and indirectly, more people than an army of me could have helped in a lifetime.
He was always a mystery. No past. Didn't talk about himself much, just to say he knew he had to come spread the strange thing that had happened. Which, of course, we could all understand.
…
…
Dr. Baker:
I was never jealous of Paul, that kind of feeling was no more, but looking back, I am a little envious that, lacking anything — tools, training, technique — because of something about him, he positively affected, directly and indirectly, more people than an army of me could have helped in a lifetime.
He was always a mystery. No past. Didn't talk about himself much, just to say he knew he had to come spread the strange thing that had happened. Which, of course, we could all understand.
…
Posted by: mindful webworker - raw and unedited at August 06, 2023 12:03 PM (O2Vgk)
327
I think my point about people is, smarter(?) Can and do forget there is a mountain of not very smart people below them and think that rarified top is the Norm.
It is not.
It is not.
Posted by: LenNeal at August 06, 2023 12:03 PM (/BBNv)
328
I just read A Bridge At Arhnem by Charles Whiting that I picked up free at Kindle Unlimited. Montgomery should have been court martialed and shot for what he did to those Brit airbourne.
Posted by: Cosda at August 06, 2023 12:04 PM (V16fU)
329
Oh well, saddest part of Sunday morning has arrived. The end of the Book Thread. Thanks, Perfessor.
Don't miss next week's installment!! I hear the Perf has some good stuff on tap!!
Don't miss next week's installment!! I hear the Perf has some good stuff on tap!!
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 06, 2023 12:04 PM (Angsy)
330
I'm continuing to read Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises and the book about how Hemmngway wrote The Sun Also Rises, Everybody Behaves Badly. I didn't care for TSAR when I read it in high school many decades ago. I understand or, at least, recognize more of it this time. In high school, I didn't bar hop with my drunken friends while engaging in drunken conversations. Now, at least, I can look back to my pre-29 days and see that drunken conversations are still, maudlin, repetitive, and irrational. There was one conversation regarding the use of irony in contemporary literature that was pretty funny. I don't remember it from my previous read so apparently I didn't get it then. My main.complaint, then as now, is that nothing ever happens. They say the use of language in this book was revolutionary and gave a voice to the lost generation. Maybe. I can't see it. I guess you had to be there.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at August 06, 2023 12:05 PM (LxYHG)
331
>>>t would be funny if CBD devoted part of the Food Thread to banana-related recipes.
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper
There's a better chance of him dressing up as Chiquita Banana.
Posted by: JT
>This scenario of horror and terror would not make it past the censors in the film industry, - even with a strike and a crew of scabs. Some things should remain verbotten.
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper
There's a better chance of him dressing up as Chiquita Banana.
Posted by: JT
>This scenario of horror and terror would not make it past the censors in the film industry, - even with a strike and a crew of scabs. Some things should remain verbotten.
Posted by: Dr. Bone at August 06, 2023 12:05 PM (KVGVf)
332
Thus Troy's siege was symptom of the collapse, not a cause.
Kind of a cargo cult mentality. "Hmm, the trade fleet didn't arrive. Let's go to Troy and make them send it!"
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:56 AM (llXky)
The Greeks had taken over trade routes from the Minoans with the development on the Pentaconter, and held that control until the end of the Bronze era. They had few resources of their own and relied on raiding and trading for their wealth, They had overrun Crete at the end of the Minoan period, and were often involved with other fighting with and against the Hittites.
Troy had been failing in importance for centuries, and the Trojan war was either a foothold for the Greeks, or a reduction of a rival, or both. It may have been one of the impetus for the Hittites to take Cyprus and try to occupy Western Anatolia
Kind of a cargo cult mentality. "Hmm, the trade fleet didn't arrive. Let's go to Troy and make them send it!"
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:56 AM (llXky)
The Greeks had taken over trade routes from the Minoans with the development on the Pentaconter, and held that control until the end of the Bronze era. They had few resources of their own and relied on raiding and trading for their wealth, They had overrun Crete at the end of the Minoan period, and were often involved with other fighting with and against the Hittites.
Troy had been failing in importance for centuries, and the Trojan war was either a foothold for the Greeks, or a reduction of a rival, or both. It may have been one of the impetus for the Hittites to take Cyprus and try to occupy Western Anatolia
Posted by: Kindltot at August 06, 2023 12:07 PM (xhaym)
333
Wodehouse specialized in charming, amusing tales and people like them. Whether they will endure is an open question. I think they survive today because Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie's adaptions brought them alive to a new generation.
But will comedy that rests on long-abandoned conventions survive another generation?
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd
------
Probably not. When my sister gave her niece a complete set of Nancy Drew books, the girl's mother later said that she (the niece) did not read them because they were 'irrelevant'.
'Progressives' like that word. It deflectively and immediately dismisses anything outside of their experience, or philosophy.
Wodehouse specialized in charming, amusing tales and people like them. Whether they will endure is an open question. I think they survive today because Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie's adaptions brought them alive to a new generation.
But will comedy that rests on long-abandoned conventions survive another generation?
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd
------
Probably not. When my sister gave her niece a complete set of Nancy Drew books, the girl's mother later said that she (the niece) did not read them because they were 'irrelevant'.
'Progressives' like that word. It deflectively and immediately dismisses anything outside of their experience, or philosophy.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 06, 2023 12:11 PM (oeYLT)
334
Both Macedonians and Greeks might argue at being lumped in together.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 12:02 PM (zZu0s)
I wasn't doing that? And anyway, Makedons are quite literally all insane.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 12:02 PM (zZu0s)
I wasn't doing that? And anyway, Makedons are quite literally all insane.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 12:13 PM (7jZ/w)
335
Old world communication. Celts in Gaul shouted news from field to field, locals knew the best locations and conditions for sound propagation. One historian claimed news at that time travelled at 26mph.
Posted by: 13times at August 06, 2023 12:13 PM (/1HxO)
336
I wasn't doing that? And anyway, Makedons are quite literally all insane.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 12:13 PM (7jZ/w)
My point is the greeks of old (and now) were pretty contrary. Say Spartans and Athenians.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 12:13 PM (7jZ/w)
My point is the greeks of old (and now) were pretty contrary. Say Spartans and Athenians.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 12:15 PM (zZu0s)
337
One historian claimed news at that time travelled at 26mph.
Posted by: 13times at August 06, 2023
***
The speed, no doubt, of a man on horseback. What's-his-name ran the 26 or so miles to Athens from the Battle of Marathon, gasped out his news, and died. Do we know how long he took to run that distance?
Posted by: 13times at August 06, 2023
***
The speed, no doubt, of a man on horseback. What's-his-name ran the 26 or so miles to Athens from the Battle of Marathon, gasped out his news, and died. Do we know how long he took to run that distance?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 06, 2023 12:24 PM (omVj0)
338
I never said he wasn't funny, I merely pointed out that the stakes were silly and small, which they were - and which was the point.
Wodehouse specialized in charming, amusing tales and people like them. Whether they will endure is an open question. I think they survive today because Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie's adaptions brought them alive to a new generation.
But will comedy that rests on long-abandoned conventions survive another generation?
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:11 AM (llXky)
Ah...well, perhaps I over-read your comment.
Yes, the stakes in the stories are generally small but so important to say, Bertie, that all sorts of complications arise and the whole of Western Civ literature are brought into play. Which is, of course, where the humor comes in.
But will comedy that rests on long-abandoned conventions survive another generation?
The conventions of comedy are universal. Reading even the comedy of Aristophanes of Ancient Greece will provoke laughter.
But, yeah, if "they" wipe out and atomize Western Civ and American Civ, there will be no consensus as to "what is funny". That's what we're seeing now.
Wodehouse specialized in charming, amusing tales and people like them. Whether they will endure is an open question. I think they survive today because Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie's adaptions brought them alive to a new generation.
But will comedy that rests on long-abandoned conventions survive another generation?
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at August 06, 2023 11:11 AM (llXky)
Ah...well, perhaps I over-read your comment.
Yes, the stakes in the stories are generally small but so important to say, Bertie, that all sorts of complications arise and the whole of Western Civ literature are brought into play. Which is, of course, where the humor comes in.
But will comedy that rests on long-abandoned conventions survive another generation?
The conventions of comedy are universal. Reading even the comedy of Aristophanes of Ancient Greece will provoke laughter.
But, yeah, if "they" wipe out and atomize Western Civ and American Civ, there will be no consensus as to "what is funny". That's what we're seeing now.
Posted by: naturalfake at August 06, 2023 12:25 PM (QzZeQ)
339
There are 2,164 Greek Gods known to us. Personally, I think there were 2166 in total since this number resolves to the square root of 2. the Greeks were profoundly rational and 2 is the most rational number in the universe. Imma pretty sure 2166 would build a perfect sphere if connected together with six pointed joints. I see the Greek cosmology as the many faces of God.
Posted by: Puddinhead at August 06, 2023 11:46 AM (/UtnQ)
No, the ancient "gods" are demons (i.e., fallen angels). Look at what they do: murder, rape, bestiality, exaggerated emphasis on sex, homosexuality, drunkenness, cannibalism, torture, spread disease, etc.
Interesting thought on the number being 2166, though.
Posted by: Puddinhead at August 06, 2023 11:46 AM (/UtnQ)
No, the ancient "gods" are demons (i.e., fallen angels). Look at what they do: murder, rape, bestiality, exaggerated emphasis on sex, homosexuality, drunkenness, cannibalism, torture, spread disease, etc.
Interesting thought on the number being 2166, though.
Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at August 06, 2023 12:26 PM (pJWtt)
340
Late arrival on the book thread = reading comments bottom to top. (The comment leading to the today’s Greek conversation being the mystery to be solved upthread)
Posted by: 13times at August 06, 2023 12:28 PM (288vs)
341
My point is the greeks of old (and now) were pretty contrary. Say Spartans and Athenians.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 12:15 PM (zZu0s)
Well yeah sure. Right. The Greeks of Homer were really Myceneans anyway. And probably didn't even think in terms of Hellenes.
I was just saying that the Classical Greeks and Hellenistic Greeks were functionally without religion due to gradual loss of understanding. Not that there is some grand unifying principle of greekness.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at August 06, 2023 12:15 PM (zZu0s)
Well yeah sure. Right. The Greeks of Homer were really Myceneans anyway. And probably didn't even think in terms of Hellenes.
I was just saying that the Classical Greeks and Hellenistic Greeks were functionally without religion due to gradual loss of understanding. Not that there is some grand unifying principle of greekness.
Posted by: Thesokorus at August 06, 2023 12:34 PM (7jZ/w)
342
244 What is the complete title and name of the author for the book about the LBC? 1277 BC Cline search comes up empty for me.
Posted by: who knew at August 06, 2023 11:34 AM (4I7VG)
The book is "1177 BC: The Year Civilization Collapsed" by Eric H. Cline. Looks like I got the century mixed up, and sent you on a wild goose chase.
Posted by: who knew at August 06, 2023 11:34 AM (4I7VG)
The book is "1177 BC: The Year Civilization Collapsed" by Eric H. Cline. Looks like I got the century mixed up, and sent you on a wild goose chase.
Posted by: Castle Guy at August 06, 2023 12:41 PM (Lhaco)
343
18 I was friends with Donald Frame’s son Jim in college. He found his dad’s name carved in the side of a seminar table. That’d be cool.
Posted by: Norrin Radd at August 06, 2023 12:53 PM (F6pSr)
344
If anyone has completed the Hyperion Cantos quartet, please share your opinion and thoughts.
Posted by: Tracy at August 06, 2023 11:28 AM (GnaxG)
Overall it’s a good series, though the main theme of Catholicism bad, versus Buddhism good, annoyed me. And I’m not even a Catholic! Granted the future sci-fi Catholicism is corrupted by forces inexplicable. The Buddhist theme is the authors westernized and pollyanna version of the eastern religion.
Posted by: Tracy at August 06, 2023 11:28 AM (GnaxG)
Overall it’s a good series, though the main theme of Catholicism bad, versus Buddhism good, annoyed me. And I’m not even a Catholic! Granted the future sci-fi Catholicism is corrupted by forces inexplicable. The Buddhist theme is the authors westernized and pollyanna version of the eastern religion.
Posted by: 13times at August 06, 2023 12:54 PM (887Oq)
345
The various posts about trashy books brings to mind Raymond Chandler's related discussion in his essay "The Simple Art of Murder:"
"In her introduction to the first _Omnibus of Crime_, Dorothy Sayers wrote: “It [the detective story] does not, and by hypothesis never can, attain the loftiest level of literary achievement.” And she suggested somewhere else that this is because it is a “literature of escape” and not “a literature of expression.” I do not know what the loftiest level of literary achievement is: neither did Aeschylus or Shakespeare;
neither does Miss Sayers. Other things being equal, which they never are, a more powerful theme will provoke a more powerful performance. Yet some very dull books have been written about God, and some very fine ones about how to make a living and stay fairly honest. It is always a matter of who writes the stuff, and what he has in him to write it with."
cont.
"In her introduction to the first _Omnibus of Crime_, Dorothy Sayers wrote: “It [the detective story] does not, and by hypothesis never can, attain the loftiest level of literary achievement.” And she suggested somewhere else that this is because it is a “literature of escape” and not “a literature of expression.” I do not know what the loftiest level of literary achievement is: neither did Aeschylus or Shakespeare;
neither does Miss Sayers. Other things being equal, which they never are, a more powerful theme will provoke a more powerful performance. Yet some very dull books have been written about God, and some very fine ones about how to make a living and stay fairly honest. It is always a matter of who writes the stuff, and what he has in him to write it with."
cont.
Posted by: Pope John 20th at August 06, 2023 01:14 PM (cYrkj)
346
"Simple Art of Murder" cont....
"As for 'literature of expression' and 'literature of escape'—this is critics’ jargon, a use of abstract words as if they had absolute meanings. Everything written with vitality expresses that vitality: there are no dull subjects, only dull minds. All men who read escape from something else into what lies behind the printed page; the quality of the dream may be argued, but its release has become a functional necessity. All men must escape at times from the deadly rhythm of their private thoughts. It is part of the process of life among thinking beings. It is one of the things that distinguish them from the three-toed sloth; he apparently—one can never be quite sure—is perfectly content hanging upside down on a branch, not even reading Walter Lippmann. I hold no particular brief for the detective story as the ideal escape. I merely say that all reading for pleasure is escape, whether it be Greek, mathematics, astronomy, Benedetto Croce, or The Diary of the Forgotten Man. To say otherwise is to be an intellectual snob, and a juvenile at the art of living."
"As for 'literature of expression' and 'literature of escape'—this is critics’ jargon, a use of abstract words as if they had absolute meanings. Everything written with vitality expresses that vitality: there are no dull subjects, only dull minds. All men who read escape from something else into what lies behind the printed page; the quality of the dream may be argued, but its release has become a functional necessity. All men must escape at times from the deadly rhythm of their private thoughts. It is part of the process of life among thinking beings. It is one of the things that distinguish them from the three-toed sloth; he apparently—one can never be quite sure—is perfectly content hanging upside down on a branch, not even reading Walter Lippmann. I hold no particular brief for the detective story as the ideal escape. I merely say that all reading for pleasure is escape, whether it be Greek, mathematics, astronomy, Benedetto Croce, or The Diary of the Forgotten Man. To say otherwise is to be an intellectual snob, and a juvenile at the art of living."
Posted by: Pope John 20th at August 06, 2023 01:17 PM (cYrkj)
347
I tend to read a "serious" book and a "non-serious" book at the same time. Multiple books in progress scattered throughout the house. Sometimes you just need to stop thinking and enjoying reading a story. I have also learned that I can't read anything war related prior to bed (seems to trigger PTSD style nightmares). Other than that, science fiction, zombie or other horror, fantasy and I sleep like a baby.
Posted by: Stacy0311 at August 06, 2023 01:28 PM (Yjop+)
348
I read Colleen McCullough's books when I was 14-15. I started re-reading them on Friday. My initial perception of them is, so far, still holding up the second time around. They're good books, historically, but:
1.) There's too much horny sex shit. Unimportant. Women and rent-boys have little to do with Roman history. They were chattels. This is just in the books to draw in lonely housewives.
2.) She was a Marius partisan. That's fine, but important to keep in mind.
1.) There's too much horny sex shit. Unimportant. Women and rent-boys have little to do with Roman history. They were chattels. This is just in the books to draw in lonely housewives.
2.) She was a Marius partisan. That's fine, but important to keep in mind.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at August 06, 2023 01:48 PM (0FoWg)
349
I forget where I left off a couple of weeks ago. I finished up The Grey Man- Generations by JL (Jim) Curtis. This allows the Grey Man series to continue on with the next generation of descendants and sets up lots of room for future books. Fans of this series will be quite glad for that!
I'm now reading "Moggies In Space" which is an anthology of stories focusing on the theme of cats in an extraterrestrial sort of environment (spaceships, etc...) This is put out by Raconteur Press out of Texas. If you know who the North Texas Troublemakers are, then you know this press and you know that they like to put out stories that are entertaining and fun.
There are 11 stories from authors Rodney L. Smith, Peter Delcroft, Uri Kurlianchik, John D. Martin, B.A. Ironwood, Jonathan Silverton, Rita Beeman, Sarah Arnette, Rhiain O'Connell, Z.M. Renick, and John Van Stry (who wrote Summer's End and is still writing the Portals of Infinity series.)
I've finished three of the stories so far, and they've all been good. In the first story, the feline who stows away on a cargo ship turns out to be telepathic, and the crew can eventually communicate with him. "Gimme Sardine!"
I'm now reading "Moggies In Space" which is an anthology of stories focusing on the theme of cats in an extraterrestrial sort of environment (spaceships, etc...) This is put out by Raconteur Press out of Texas. If you know who the North Texas Troublemakers are, then you know this press and you know that they like to put out stories that are entertaining and fun.
There are 11 stories from authors Rodney L. Smith, Peter Delcroft, Uri Kurlianchik, John D. Martin, B.A. Ironwood, Jonathan Silverton, Rita Beeman, Sarah Arnette, Rhiain O'Connell, Z.M. Renick, and John Van Stry (who wrote Summer's End and is still writing the Portals of Infinity series.)
I've finished three of the stories so far, and they've all been good. In the first story, the feline who stows away on a cargo ship turns out to be telepathic, and the crew can eventually communicate with him. "Gimme Sardine!"
Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at August 06, 2023 01:50 PM (qPw5n)
350
In response to the illustrious A. H. Lloyd @52 "To put it another way, while one could write 1,000 pages on Tolkien's writings, his personal life was dull." I beg to differ. The story of his meeting, courting and marrying his wife Edith is rather remarkable. He was 16 when they met (they were living in the same boarding house). She was 3 years older than he was. They fell in love and in 1909 Tolkien told his guardian (his mother had died 7 years before) that he wanted to marry Edith when he was old enough. His guardian, a Catholic priest, did not approve (thinking him too young) and ordered Tolkien to stop seeing Edith. Amazingly (by modern standards) he obeyed. He wrote begging Edith to wait for him and for 3 years they had no contact. The day he turned 21 Tolkien wrote Edith to say that he still loved her. She answered that she had accepted another man's proposal. He immediately went to see her and convinced her to break off the engagement. Edith accepted his proposal but it was another 4 years before they were able to marry. That was in 1916 just after he had graduated and a few weeks before he was shipped off to the front as a newly minted officer. (cont.)
Posted by: John F. MacMichael at August 06, 2023 03:15 PM (2SWLc)
351
Continued from #350:
Later in life, Tolkien explained how his love for Edith inspired one of the central stories in his mythos: the epic story of Luthien and Beren. Luthien, the elvish princess, the most beautiful woman ever seen among Elves and Men. Beren, the mighty warrior who was enchanted by her beauty and who would dare any peril to win her love.
When JRRT died he directed that the names "Luthien" and "Beren" were engraved on her and his headstones.
Ladies, I say that if you ever find a man who looks at you the way JRRT looked at Edith, hold on to him.
Later in life, Tolkien explained how his love for Edith inspired one of the central stories in his mythos: the epic story of Luthien and Beren. Luthien, the elvish princess, the most beautiful woman ever seen among Elves and Men. Beren, the mighty warrior who was enchanted by her beauty and who would dare any peril to win her love.
When JRRT died he directed that the names "Luthien" and "Beren" were engraved on her and his headstones.
Ladies, I say that if you ever find a man who looks at you the way JRRT looked at Edith, hold on to him.
Posted by: John F. MacMichael at August 06, 2023 03:25 PM (2SWLc)
352
Louis Lamour is a great example of a pulp writer whose books are valuable because he was both widely read and pragmatically wise from his experiences in life. Another example -- and fair disclosure here, I recently to my great surprise became involved in republishing this author's books on Kindle; so feel free to suspect conflict of interest -- is a Mills & Boon / Harlequin Romance author from the 1950s - '80s, New Zealand's Essie Summers. I'm a classics major who has read the Iliad in Greek, and the Aeneid in Latin, and the Divine Comedy in Italian, and Paradise Lost in...well, okay, English...but the point is, I have read my share of Great Books -- yet I have re-read Summers's "light fiction" romance novels over and over, because they are infused with so much besides the romance. We actually include in the Kindle editions an entire section devoted to all of the literary works and poems the characters allude to...reading Summers, if you follow her characters' recommendations, opens you up to an entire world of English, Scottish, and even occasionally American literature. But she isn't taken seriously in English Departments because she was published by Mills & Boon.
Posted by: Ken Pierce at August 06, 2023 03:33 PM (Bx2Z0)
Posted by: Beverly at August 06, 2023 04:02 PM (Epeb0)
354
accidentally posted on the tech thread:
48 Last week I acquired Sherlock Holmes: The Complete Collection. It was a free download for the Kindle on Amazon, which brought joy to my frugal little heart. I've already read the first story, A Study in Scarlet and am looking forward to working my way through the rest.
C.S. Lewis's Space Trilogy arrived in yesterday's mail, though I haven't had a chance to look at it yet. At the rate I'm going, I will need at least a month's vacation, instead of the 1 week I'm taking, to make even a dent in the pile of "vacation reading" I'm gathering.
I'll have to finish reading this Fabulous Book Thread later - I'm off to a party hosted by my super-lib sister-in-law and I'm already biting my tongue. Thank you Perfessor, and thank you book lovers for this place of refuge and enlightenment.
Posted by: KatieFloyd at August 06, 2023 10:50 AM (ob77J)
48 Last week I acquired Sherlock Holmes: The Complete Collection. It was a free download for the Kindle on Amazon, which brought joy to my frugal little heart. I've already read the first story, A Study in Scarlet and am looking forward to working my way through the rest.
C.S. Lewis's Space Trilogy arrived in yesterday's mail, though I haven't had a chance to look at it yet. At the rate I'm going, I will need at least a month's vacation, instead of the 1 week I'm taking, to make even a dent in the pile of "vacation reading" I'm gathering.
I'll have to finish reading this Fabulous Book Thread later - I'm off to a party hosted by my super-lib sister-in-law and I'm already biting my tongue. Thank you Perfessor, and thank you book lovers for this place of refuge and enlightenment.
Posted by: KatieFloyd at August 06, 2023 10:50 AM (ob77J)
Posted by: m at August 06, 2023 04:32 PM (x5hic)
355
I'm making $90 an hour working from home. I never imagined that it was honest to goodness yet my closest companion is earning sixteen thousand US dollars a month by working on the connection, that was truly astounding for me, she prescribed for me to attempt it simply. Everybody must try this job now by just using this website... www.Payathome7.com
Posted by: www.Payathome7.com at August 06, 2023 04:36 PM (MKA1Y)
356
231: there is no such thing as “price gouging”. People who say that are simply whining that they don’t like the price.
Besides, what the coof taught me, more than anything, is that prices in America are in fact set by the police, And Americans want it that way, because Americans, if they were honest with themselves (yeah right), hate capitalism as much as they hate the idea of merit.
Besides, what the coof taught me, more than anything, is that prices in America are in fact set by the police, And Americans want it that way, because Americans, if they were honest with themselves (yeah right), hate capitalism as much as they hate the idea of merit.
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at August 06, 2023 07:41 PM (f0XAF)
357
Thank you m for fixing that. My apologies.
Posted by: KatieFloyd at August 06, 2023 08:57 PM (ob77J)
358
I'm very late to this discussion, but Louis L'Amour? Hmmm. Since my retirement, I've been making time to read all the book series that I had put aside for someday. I recall grandpa used to read Louis L'Amour, so that might be a good road to travel next. Thanks for the suggestion.
Posted by: Nancy at 7000 ft at August 06, 2023 09:11 PM (0tmoY)
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