Sunday Morning Book Thread - 05-07-2023 ["Perfessor" Squirrel]

Welcome to the prestigious, internationally acclaimed, stately, and illustrious Sunday Morning Book Thread! The place where all readers are welcome, regardless of whatever guilty pleasure we feel like reading. Here is where we can discuss, argue, bicker, quibble, consider, debate, confabulate, converse, and jaw about our latest fancy in reading material. As always, pants are required, especially if you are wearing these pants...(ht: Sharon(willow's apprentice) who sent me an awesome link with lots of neat pants!)

So relax, find yourself a warm kitty (or warm puppy--I won't judge) to curl up in your lap, take joy in the warm spring sunshine, and dive into a new book. What are YOU reading this fine morning?

PIC NOTE

Not all libraries are set up for human consumption. Dolls need books too! Today we are looking at Queen Mary's doll house library. As you would expect of a doll house fit for a British monarch--in this case, the consort to King George V--it's an absolute masterpiece of elegant craftsmanship. More than 170 authors are featured in handwritten books contained in the tiny library.

NOIR FICTION

Although noir fiction can be seen as its own subgenre of crime fiction, or even a genre unto itself, I typically seem to encounter it as a stylistic layer wrapping a different genre underneath. Commonly, this is indeed the hardboiled detective fiction stories, such as those by Dashiell Hammett or Raymond Chandler. However, nowadays it's common to include a lot of noir tropes in both science fiction and fantasy, as well as continuing the long tradition of overlaying crime dramas with a patina of noir.

What makes a "noir" story? According to that font of wisdom, Wikipedia, noir stories feature a bleak and nihilistic outlook on life in general. There are NO real heroes, or even anti-heroes. All of the protagonists are morally questionable at best, and usually seriously flawed in some way. Don't look for a happy ending here. This is in contrast to a hardboiled detective story which may have som e of the elements of noir, such as a crime-ridden, corrupt city, where everyone is out to get everyone else, but the main protagonist does believe that there is justice to be found and will try to do the right thing when pushed to do so by circumstances.

Note that I'm specifically talking about literary noir fiction, rather than film noir. This is a Book Thread, after all. Most of the elements of film noir are taken from the literary tradition, probably because it looks "good" on film, establishing the mood and tone exceptionally well in a visual medium.

I enjoy noir stories from time to time, when the mood strikes me, though much of what I read is either science fiction noir (e.g., cyberpunk) or fantasy noir (e.g., the urban fantasy investigator, like Harry Dresden). But I'll happily read just about any noir story, if the writing is good. It's the tone and the mood that are interesting to me, the dark, seedy side of life explored through the eyes of a character struggling not only against the darkness around him, but also within himself. Though I do like characters who have some redeeming characteristic that keeps them from being a total nihilistic asshole.

Noir is also frequently parodied in comedies because it can be hilarious to overlay noir onto a humorous situation. It's showed up in Calvin and Hobbes as well as The Far Side on more than one occasion. Walt Kelly's Pogo even parodied noir detective fiction in one storyline.

I know we have some detective fiction fans among the Horde...Why is "noir" so well-suited to that genre? What would "noir" look like when applied to other genres, such as westerns or romance? (I'd argue that Gothic romance includes quite a few noirish elements already...)

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IT PAYS TO INCREASE YOUR WORD POWER

chivalry - n. - referring the qualities of the ideal knight, such as honor, generosity, courtesy.

Comment: One way in which hardboiled detective fiction differs from pure noir fiction is that the protagonist often exhibits some chivalric traits. A common trope is the damsel in distress who shows up in the detective's office with a case for him to solve. He reluctantly agrees because he adheres to a chivalric code, even though he's pretty sure he'll wind up over his head through some form of treachery. Them's the breaks, kid.

abyss - n. - any unfathomable or seemingly unfathomable cavity, chasm, or void extending below.
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes into you." -- Frederick Nietzsche

Comment: Since today's theme seems to be noir fiction, I thought this word is appropriate. The idea behind Nietzsche's quote is that once you start down the path towards darkness, forever will it dominate your destiny. Wait, that's from Yoda. Anyway, noirish fiction concerns itself with the corruption of the spirit, something we all wrestle with on a daily basis, especially in these dark times.

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MORON RECOMMENDATIONS

My family had a set of Durant's Story of Civilization series, and that was my secret weapon through high school history. I read the whole series a couple of times, and some volumes again and again. Great stuff.
It does show its age, though. Not just in the sense of being at odds with current intellectual fashions -- that's a feature, not a flaw -- but (especially regarding the earlier periods) new discoveries have changed our understanding of what actually happened.
It's still worth reading, and I don't know of a better introduction to the history of Western Civilization.
Posted by: Trimegistus at April 30, 2023 09:43 AM (QZxDR)

Comment: Sometimes just getting a basic grasp of the fundamentals is important, even if certain aspects may have moved on from when the book was originally written. I was watching a video of a chemistry professor not that long ago and he was describing the basic structure of the atom. Most of what he was showing was wrong, but it's still worth pointing out the usefulness of the model most people use when attempting to visualize an atom. Despite the butchering of history by Leftists, historians HAVE uncovered more about Western Civilization in the past 50 years due to archeological digs and translations of recently discovered historical documents. A basic introduction of a subject gives you at least a foundation upon which you can then converse reasonably intelligibly with experts on the subject.

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The highlight of my reading this week was On the Incarnation by Saint Athanasius. This edition has an introduction by CS Lewis and information from Sister Penelope Lawson who did the translation in the early 1940s.
I am beyond bowled over by this book. Athanasius, writing in the 4th century AD, explains Christianity and its importance in such clear, positive tones. If the translation is faithful in approach to the original Greek, the book must have had a huge impact on the still forming church and traditions. That tone reminds me of some of the works of CS Lewis and Chesterton about 1,700 years later. (That is praise for all concerned.)
Part of the value for me was learning more about the philosophy, and variations, within the early church. Athanasius is fighting for what he believes to be the true meaning of Christianity in the face of other interpretations. It also makes me want to learn more about the early writings of Christianity, starting with the Ten Commandments and what they were intended to provide.
Posted by: JTB at April 30, 2023 10:16 AM (7EjX1)

Comment: Early Christianity was a weird time. There were lots of competing ideologies out there from people just trying to understand what Christianity really meant. We are still struggling to understand it today, if the competing sects and factions of Christianity are anything to go by. At some point Christianity was codified into the Biblical teachings we generally know today. Again, those are still hotly debated among scholars, theologians, and people who attempt to twist the words of God for their own purposes.

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Reading Bismarck by Edward Crankshaw, who takes a very dim view of him.
His great years were between 1861 and 1870, where he overcame an abdication crisis, defeated Denmark in the War for Schleswig-Holstein, threw Austria out of German affairs in 1866 and united Germany under Wilhelm I after defeating France in 1870. But even here his conduct and diplomacy alternated between bullying and duplicitousness.
After that, he had 20 years left to run in his chancellorship, which was almost wholly negative and largely devoted to keeping himself in power.
Like Churchill, he was bored by domestic affairs. The constitution he set up worked only so long as he was chancellor with a pliant Emperor. He devoted a great deal of futile energy to beating the Catholics into submission. He completely failed to grow a political class capable of governing without him. His diplomacy after 1870 kept the peace in Europe, but was so devious and intricate that his successors ended up angering everyone when they had to unwind them. Bismarck in the portrait drawn by Crankshaw is a strange, brilliant, neurotic man whose legacy eventually was the destruction of the Prussian state he created.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 30, 2023 10:32 AM (MoZTd)

Comment: Both the Left and Right seem perfectly keen on having a strong hand at the helm of their political leadership. Unfortunately, the dirty little secret about strong men is that they don't always plan for a future *without* their leadership. This is true even in industry. A man (or woman) creates a business empire, but his or her heirs have no real interest or stake in keeping the business strong. So after a few generations, you get the chaotic corporate atmosphere we see now, where a business like AB hires someone who has NO real interest in the company in order to promote her own political ideology. That didn't work out so well. It's only a matter of time before Walt Disney's frozen head comes back to life to wreak havoc on his own company...

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I just finished Code Talker: A Novel About the Navajo Marines of World War Two by Joseph Bruchac. The main character, Ned Begay, is telling the story of his life to his "grandchildren," as an elder of a tribe instructing the youth. Ned begins with his education at a Mission Boarding School, where the students are shorn (literally) of their Navajo identity and punished for speaking their native language. When Ned is 16, a Marine recruiter comes to his high school, looking for volunteers for a special project. Ned is too young and must wait a year before enlisting. The rest of his story is about island-hopping in the Pacific.
Code Talker is a YA novel, so the horrors of war and jungle fighting are mentioned, but not graphically described. Mr. Bruchac includes information and stories about real people and situations, including the prejudice the Navajo faced within their units (until they proved themselves in combat) and stateside after the War. But the point is not belabored and Ned retains his inherent dignity throughout the novel. The existence of Code Talkers was classified until 1968, so it is still relatively unknown.
I would recommend for middle-school & older, especially boys.
Posted by: March Hare at April 30, 2023 11:54 AM (WOU9P)

Comment: The idea behind Navajo "code talkers" is pretty interesting, having them speak in a language that the Japanese couldn't understand or crack. To the Navajo people, it was a way of keeping a vestige of their heritage and culture alive. To the Allies, it was a key element in communicating secretly to prevent the Japanese from understanding the Allies' battle strategies. I'm always a big fan of promoting books for middle-school boys. Anything that get them interested in reading is a plus.

More Moron-recommended reading material can be found HERE! (763 Moron-recommended books so far!)

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WHAT I'VE ACQUIRED THIS PAST WEEK

Grimoir Chronicles 1 - Hard Magic by Larry Correia -- Noir urban fantasy

Grimoir Chronicles 2 - Spellbound by Larry Correia -- More noir urban fantasy

The Runelords by David Farland

Servant of the Empire by Raymond E. Feist and Janny Wurts

Mistress of the Empire by Raymond E. Feist and Janny Wurts

City of Jade by Dennis L. McKiernan

The Honorable Barbarian by L. Sprague de Camp

A Phule and His Money by Robert Asprin with Peter J. Heck

Phule's Paradise by Robert Asprin

Thieves' World Book 5 - The Face of Chaos edited by Robert Lynn Asprin & Lynn Abbey

Thieves' World Book 6 - Wings of Omen edited by Robert Lynn Asprin & Lynn Abbey

Thieves' World Book 7 - The Dead of Winter edited by Robert Lynn Asprin & Lynn Abbey

WHAT I'VE BEEN READING THIS PAST WEEK:

The Banned and the Banished Book 3 - Wit'ch War by James Clemens -- Elena comes into her own as a wit'ch of extraordinary power and determination. She and her allies storm the island of A'loa Glen to free the Blood Diary from the evil clutches of the Dark Lord.

Daybreak Book 1 - Directive 51 by John Barnes -- A terrifying look at the breakdown of society in the near future (October 28, 2024, to be exact). Ecoterrorists unleash devastating biological and technological plagues on humankind to break the Big System. Now society must rebuild from the ashes of ruin. All too plausible, given what we know about the WEF and their avowed goals.

Daybreak Book 2 - Daybreak Zero by John Barnes -- The truth about Daybreak is even more terrifying than the survivors of the initial event initially thought...It's not even close to being over as the shattered remains of the United States of America struggle to reassemble a functioning Constitutional republic.

That's about all I have for this week. Thank you for all of your kind words regarding the Sunday Morning Book Thread. This is a very special place. You are very special people (in all the best ways!). The kindness, generosity, and wisdom of the Moron Horde knows no bounds. Let's keep reading!

If you have any suggestions for improvement, reading recommendations, or discussion topics that you'd like to see on the Sunday Morning Book Thread, you can send them to perfessor dot squirrel at-sign gmail dot com. Your feedback is always appreciated! You can also take a virtual tour of OUR library at libib.com/u/perfessorsquirrel. Since I added sections for AoSHQ, I now consider it OUR library, rather than my own personal fiefdom...

PREVIOUS SUNDAY MORNING BOOK THREAD - 04-30-23 (NOTE: Do NOT comment on old threads!)

(Can the United States of America be reborn from the ashes of ruin?)

Posted by: Open Blogger at 09:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 People have been waiting, Perfessor....

Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023 08:59 AM (Angsy)

2 Good morning everyone.

Off to find some pants.

Posted by: Tonypete at May 07, 2023 08:59 AM (qoGsy)

3 ne read this week

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 07, 2023 08:59 AM (BRHaw)

4 hiya

Posted by: JT at May 07, 2023 09:00 AM (T4tVD)

5 Tolle Lege
Still reading David Walder's Nelson, now if only had more time to read

Posted by: Skip at May 07, 2023 09:00 AM (xhxe8)

6 wife: we are going to the opera
me: OK let me get my OPERA pants

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 07, 2023 09:01 AM (BRHaw)

7 People have been waiting, Perfessor....
Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023 08:59 AM (Angsy)
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Patience is a virtue!

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 07, 2023 09:01 AM (BpYfr)

8 I finished The Christ Clone Trilogy by reading Acts of God by James Beauseigneur. Christopher, who was cloned from cells from the shroud of Turin, is the Antichrist who has brought the New Age to humanity. The most meaningful part of the book to me is the rational arguments put forth by Rosen, a Jew who believes in Jesus, to convince Decker, Christopher's adoptive father, that Christopher is the Antichrist and that Jesus is yet to come. As a believer who has had little religious education, I found the arguments enlightening.

Posted by: Zoltan at May 07, 2023 09:06 AM (/Uj0d)

9 Morning, book people! I'm reading Brandon Sanderson's Legion: The Many Lives of Stephen Leeds. This is an SF thriller with some mystery elements, three novelettes that together make up the adventures of one Stephen Leeds, a schizophrenic who is in good contact with reality. He just has . . . hallucinations -- "aspects" of himself that other people can't see or hear. Each of them has skills that Stephen, who is a learning prodigy, has picked up from reading. Other people know about him, and they hire him to do unusual things, like find a camera that can take pictures of the past, or to find a body whose cells are filled with data. Humor and a fast pace; good stuff so far.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:07 AM (omVj0)

10 Hot Coffee!!!...Tolle Lege...Go Tell The Spartans...these shootings are feeling like the PLO tactic of go shoot up this place, we'll take care of your Family...nod wink

Posted by: Qmark at May 07, 2023 09:07 AM (+t9Oi)

11 Tonypete should be docked for showing up without proper attire

Posted by: Skip at May 07, 2023 09:08 AM (xhxe8)

12 I bet that little library has the complete works of Louisa May Alcott.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at May 07, 2023 09:08 AM (PiwSw)

13 Noir in comics:

The Criminal series by Ed Brubaker. Some of the stories use continuing characters, others stand on their own. The underworld is a different world. I don't know how anybody stands it.

The Sin City books by Frank Miller. I can't say more because I've never read any of those.
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Posted by: Weak Geek at May 07, 2023 09:09 AM (uIu2G)

14 The moose out front even told me.

I plead ignorance.

Posted by: Tonypete at May 07, 2023 09:09 AM (qoGsy)

15 And speaking of the underworld:

I'm continuing to read the stories of Damon Runyon in "Guys & Dolls." This includes his famous tales "Little Miss Marker" and "The Lemon Drop Kid." I do not believe that it is a violation of any confidences to say these are not the kind of stories you want to read just before you go to bed.

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 07, 2023 09:10 AM (uIu2G)

16 I like the librarian.

Posted by: Durak Kazyol at May 07, 2023 09:10 AM (4zxRq)

17 I don't think the Pants Guy owns a weedwhacker (if you catch my drift.....)

Posted by: JT at May 07, 2023 09:11 AM (T4tVD)

18 Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinking Indian
Or the marine that went to war…

Posted by: Zombie Johnny Cash at May 07, 2023 09:11 AM (R/m4+)

19 I suspect I've worked noir elements into my "hardboiled fantasy" stories. But my stuff is not nihilistic or hopeless. Heroes win, at great cost sometimes, but the outcomes are much more positive than negative.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:12 AM (omVj0)

20 ***PROUD PARENT BREAKS THE THREAD***

Our daughter will graduate from college with highest honors Saturday and will begin work this summer as a TV reporter in an adjacent state (within visiting range)!

How a guy from print news wound up with a child in broadcast news is a mystery to me.

***PROUD PARENT STEPS BACK***

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 07, 2023 09:12 AM (uIu2G)

21 But I'll happily read just about any noir story, if the writing is good.

That lets me out.

Noir, to me, is like you said. Nobody's "good," they all have some evil hiding in their background. Even the "hero" of the piece. They're either drunks, or have problems with women, so there's always some bugaboo that affects how they work, and how the story plays out.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023 09:12 AM (Angsy)

22 MP4: Did you see that link I sent you to Flashbak, with the silent film posters, including two with Theda Bara?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:13 AM (omVj0)

23 Just finished Adrian Tchaikovsky's "Final Architecture" trilogy, which consists of:

"Shards of Earth," Eyes of the Void," and "Lords of Uncreation." Absolutely outstanding SciFi.

Earth has been destroyed by the "Architects", moon-sized crystalline structures that arise from "unspace" (the very screepy layer underlying real space, which is inhabited by some very evil creatures who seek to eradicate all sentient life). Humanity is on the run as planet after planet is destroyed, and an oddball collection of humans and aliens must find a way to defeat those evil asshole Unspace creatures, the Lords of Uncreation, and their watchdog who guards unspace, "The Presence."

Such a great trilogy. I am sad I'm finished and hope I live long enough to forget it so I can pick it up again eventually. Brilliant plot, well-drawn characters, much tension, wacky aliens who are VERY alien indeed.

Highest possible recommendation I can give.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 07, 2023 09:13 AM (NK7zI)

24 Good morning everyone.

Code Breakers?

What I have been reading could be called Oath Breakers.

"The Jesuits: The Society of Jesus and the Betrayal of the Roman Catholic Church."

Wow. Just Wow. To jump into the heresy that is Liberation Theology cannot just be insane. It must be diabolical.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at May 07, 2023 09:14 AM (JVCkA)

25 A Vietnam history series by Mark Moyar came up again getting Amazon stuff, actually had it ordered in hard copy only to have it tossed back as out of stock a month or so ago. Do want to read them, even Kindle edition is showing $30, hard copy not much more.
Triumph Forsaken 1954-65

Posted by: Skip at May 07, 2023 09:14 AM (xhxe8)

26 I’m rereading Heinlein’s “Past Through Tomorrow” series, not for the first time. Hoping that he’s right that the Crazy Years Will eventually pass and there’ll be a Type I civilization.

Posted by: Durak Kazyol at May 07, 2023 09:14 AM (4zxRq)

27 How a guy from print news wound up with a child in broadcast news is a mystery to me.

***PROUD PARENT STEPS BACK***

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 07, 2023 09:12 AM (uIu2G)

Kids always disappoint you.

/that's a joke, son. no offense meant or implied.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023 09:15 AM (Angsy)

28 In the last 2-3 weeks I read the 9-volume saga of Len Deighton's character 'Samson'. Very enjoyable. I also read a bunch of his stand alone novels such as Bomber. Good writer. Now I've started on David Baldacci's 'Amos Decker' series and I'm on book 2. I find the main character a little revolting.

Posted by: Ciampino - Kitty update https://is.gd/WQ5JcT at May 07, 2023 09:15 AM (qfLjt)

29 Highest possible recommendation I can give.
Posted by: Sharkman at May 07, 2023 09:13 AM (NK7zI)
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I've heard a lot of great things about Adrian Tschaikovsky's science fiction. I'll definitely have to check him out.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 07, 2023 09:15 AM (BpYfr)

30 16 I like the librarian.
Posted by: Durak Kazyol at May 07, 2023

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Me too. She reminds me a little of the clerk this morning at the grocery store. Compared to most of the service people in this area, she was a young Sigourney Weaver.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:15 AM (omVj0)

31 From Chat GPT:

Moreover, the second half of the quote suggests that if we stare too long into the darkness or negativity of our struggles, we may find ourselves being consumed by it. In other words, if we focus too much on the negative aspects of our struggles, we may lose sight of the positive things in our lives, leading to feelings of hopelessness or despair.

Is this not the current WOKENESS? The quote unquote struggle seems to be never ending. It starts with trigger warnings on the material. Then the trigger warnings get added to the Course Outline. Then the Course is cancelled or rewritten to become a Course that has nothing to do with the original subject.

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 07, 2023 09:15 AM (BRHaw)

32 On the Incarnation by Saint Athanasius looks interesting. I may to check that out.

Posted by: dantesed at May 07, 2023 09:16 AM (88xKn)

33 My family had a set of Durant's Story of Civilization series, and that was my secret weapon through high school history...

It's still worth reading, and I don't know of a better introduction to the history of Western Civilization.

Posted by: Trimegistus at April 30, 2023 09:43 AM (QZxDR)

Check out Susan Wise Bauer's history books. They cover not only Western Civ, but (as the series title suggests) world history.

https://is.gd/agFH6e

She also has a homeschool curriculum.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at May 07, 2023 09:17 AM (PiwSw)

34 I like spy novels so I'll take suggestions.

Posted by: Ciampino -- Kitty update https://is.gd/WQ5JcT at May 07, 2023 09:17 AM (qfLjt)

35 well except the underworld and the overworld,the corporate and intelligence halfs work together, take a place like marbella, a sun drenched tourist paradise on the costa del sol, it was largely brought to being by a member german nobility, who was the son of allen dulles middleman with the ss, max hohenlohe, all the celebrities like sean connery and co, flocked to it in the 70s, along with myriad arms dealers and assorted riff raff, from the russia to the gulf states and everyone in between, 130 different mobs ply their streets,

Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 09:18 AM (PXvVL)

36 Good Sunday morning, horde!

I just started In the First Circle, by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. And I also started Virtual Light, by William Gibson.

I don't have opinions yet--need to get a few more chapters in first.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at May 07, 2023 09:18 AM (OX9vb)

37 Also read "The Sparrow" by Mary Doria Russell. Music is heard from a planet in the Alpha Centauri system and the Jesuits put together a mission to visit the planet to make first contact (they move very quickly and in secret while the rest of the Earth puts together study committees).

Something goes terribly wrong and the only survivor of the mission has been returned to Earth, mentally destroyed and physically debilitated. He is debriefing by his fellow Jesuits and this book describes how he eventually is able to tell his horrifying story.

A lot of religious doctrine, specifically Catholic, much drama and incredible sadness along with a kernel of hope. This is a spectacular book but a very hard read. I finished it last Monday and it is still ringing in my head even though I moved on to a new book immediately afterward.

Highest possible recommendation I can give.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 07, 2023 09:18 AM (NK7zI)

38 Actually nice enough out on deck to catch up on reading

Posted by: Skip at May 07, 2023 09:18 AM (xhxe8)

39 Perfessor, may I ask what the chemistry video was? Maybe even what was wrong and what is right? I know zero about chem, BTW.

Posted by: Durak Kazyol at May 07, 2023 09:20 AM (4zxRq)

40 I like spy novels so I'll take suggestions.
Posted by: Ciampino -- Kitty update https://is.gd/WQ5JcT at May 07, 2023

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The best of the James Bond novels, From Russia With Love. Eric Ambler's Journey into Fear.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:20 AM (omVj0)

41 Ciampino's Rescue kitties - LIVE STREAMING!!
https://www.twitch.tv/kittenwatch

There's also another photo update, #42, at link below.
Take a look if interested. Make sure to click on
"See Older Updates" as well if it's your first time.
https://is.gd/WQ5JcT

Posted by: Ciampino --- Kitty update https://is.gd/WQ5JcT at May 07, 2023 09:21 AM (qfLjt)

42 I like spy novels so I'll take suggestions.
Posted by: Ciampino -- Kitty update https://is.gd/WQ5JcT at May 07, 2023

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Also the Matt Helm stories by Donald Hamilton. forget the parody films with Dean Martin. These are tough and tough-minded paperback thrillers with some hardboiled realism.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:22 AM (omVj0)

43 Perfessor, may I ask what the chemistry video was? Maybe even what was wrong and what is right? I know zero about chem, BTW.
Posted by: Durak Kazyol at May 07, 2023 09:20 AM (4zxRq)
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The chemistry professor (a real one, not like me) was showing students how the model of the atom evolved over time.

The idea of electrons orbiting the nucleus is a useful fiction, but it's very different from the reality, which involves clouds of probability waves.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 07, 2023 09:22 AM (BpYfr)

44 No "good" characters - very biblical.

Posted by: Toad-O at May 07, 2023 09:23 AM (B1QmE)

45 Readers know the word is "inhabiting" rather than "habitating" unless you are playing with the word for fun.

Posted by: Emmie at May 07, 2023 09:23 AM (Emce2)

46 MP4: Did you see that link I sent you to Flashbak, with the silent film posters, including two with Theda Bara?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:13 AM (omVj0)

I did, Wolfus, thank you. I just generally don't respond to e-mail over the weekend. I appreciate the link, and will be replying to you in a bit.

And since she's been brought up, a new Theda Bara book (not by me) is coming out this fall. It's supposed to be a complete examination of her films, though how one does that when most of them are lost is beyond me.

https://tinyurl.com/2wdf3mzc

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 07, 2023 09:24 AM (AW0uW)

47 Oh heavens! How could I have forgotten this noir comics series:

100 Bullets.

Starts with the premise: What would you do if you had the opportunity to take revenge for a wrong against you and could get away with it?

A guy seeks out such people and provides a briefcase that contains an automatic pistol and 100 untraceable rounds.

Then the story really goes to town.

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 07, 2023 09:24 AM (uIu2G)

48 This week I've been reading two very very different books.

The first is _Doc Sidhe_, by Aaron Allston, a fantasy pulp novel from the 1990s. He tries to do a mashup of pulp style heroics with urban fantasy, and it mostly works. The biggest flaw is that the viewpoint character is a kickboxer, a guy from our world who gets flung into to pulp otherworld where the elf hero Doc Sidhe fights bad guys. I assume Allston does kickboxing himself, because any time we get into a fight things get rrreeeaaalll ssslllooowww as every kickboxing maneuver is minutely described.

The other book is Donna Tartt's _The Secret History_, about a bunch of classics scholars gone rogue at a very Bennington-like college in Vermont. I think it was partly inspired by a real disappearance in that area. It's a good story, with some very strange characters. However, I tend to quibble with Tartt's depiction of 1980s college life. Maybe they did things differently at Bennington, but this book feels more like it's set in the 1950s than the 1980s.

I guess I'm just in a cranky mood this week.

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 07, 2023 09:24 AM (QZxDR)

49 I have the first nine volumes of Will Durant's Story of Civilization series. I'm having a hard time getting the last two to complete the set.

I just started to read vol 2: The Life of Greece.

Posted by: dantesed at May 07, 2023 09:25 AM (88xKn)

50 100 Bullets.

Starts with the premise: What would you do if you had the opportunity to take revenge for a wrong against you and could get away with it?

A guy seeks out such people and provides a briefcase that contains an automatic pistol and 100 untraceable rounds.

Then the story really goes to town.
Posted by: Weak Geek at May 07, 2023

***
Sort of a noir version of the TV show The Millionaire, huh?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:25 AM (omVj0)

51 Actually nice enough out on deck to catch up on reading
Posted by: Skip

Same here; but I SHOULD finish cutting my grass and turning the dirt in my garden over.

Posted by: JT at May 07, 2023 09:25 AM (T4tVD)

52 Good morning all y'all. I hope everyone had a great week of reading.

Posted by: JTB at May 07, 2023 09:27 AM (7EjX1)

53 Brubaker was behnd the winter soldier arc that inspired the film, which had a more noir take then the 50s arc but less
than the utter nihilism of the 70s, Shield being the CIA substitute,

Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 09:28 AM (PXvVL)

54 Let me cross streams here for a moment.

If you:

1. Like the Hornblower series in paperback, and wish that you owned it.

2. Are attending the upcoming NoVaMoMe.

Do I have a gift for you!

Let me know.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 07, 2023 09:28 AM (1n+EO)

55 Good question about "Noir", Perfesser.

I think we all know it when we see it. But what is it?

To me, it is the rejection of "morality" and "ethics" as a cultural foundation.

The protagonist is in a "third position" wrt an ineffective State and an underwold of "criminals". Traditionally a "detective" which is understood as a non-State actor who searches for Truth.

The State is systemically incompetent and indifferent to Truth. The Underworld seeks to obscure it. The goal of the protagonist is to reveal it. The protagonist is actually driven by some unknown force to uncover it against his own self-interest.

Truth is of course base sin which has been elaborately hidden.

The protagonist is not a "moral" or "ethical" man. Not at all. He is the servant of Truth. Therefore, Truth is not "morality" or "ethics".

Instead, "morality" and "ethics" are just useless ideas and usually cover for base sin.

The protagonist destroys the cover story of the culture in which he enters and reduces it to the base reality. Or, reveals Truth which is just reality.

And, hopefully it can re-grow from there in accord with Truth. Post catharsis.

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 09:28 AM (x+aI8)

56 Comment: Both the Left and Right seem perfectly keen on having a strong hand at the helm of their political leadership. Unfortunately, the dirty little secret about strong men is that they don't always plan for a future *without* their leadership."

Marshall Tito.

Posted by: Tom Servo at May 07, 2023 09:28 AM (S6gqv)

57 I finished The Magician, an early novel by Somerset Maugham. Very much unlike his other work, it's an out-and-out melodrama with a villain based on Aleister Crowley, whom Maugham knew. A little more florid in the writing style than I've come to expect from Maugham, but still interesting.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:29 AM (omVj0)

58 I finished off March to the Sea by Ringo and Weber, further misadventures of Prince Roger and his remaining bodyguards as they battle their way across the planet Marduk after their spaceship was sabotaged.

Posted by: Kindltot at May 07, 2023 09:29 AM (xhaym)

59 And, hopefully it can re-grow from there in accord with Truth. Post catharsis.
Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 09:28 AM (x+aI

---
Excellent description! This is why I love the Moron Horde, an endless fount of wisdom.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 07, 2023 09:30 AM (BpYfr)

60 I wonder if Barbie has a little library like Queen Mary's.

Posted by: Smell the Glove at May 07, 2023 09:30 AM (eFaiq)

61 Ipcress File is a good spy novel.

Hopkirk's books about The Great Game aren't novels but they are interesting enough to fill the need.

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 09:30 AM (x+aI8)

62 The idea of electrons orbiting the nucleus is a useful fiction, but it's very different from the reality, which involves clouds of probability waves.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel
————
“I see,” he said, utterly confused and silently vowing to be more circumspect about asking questions in the future.

Posted by: Durak Kazyol at May 07, 2023 09:30 AM (4zxRq)

63 I've heard a lot of great things about Adrian Tschaikovsky's science fiction. I'll definitely have to check him out.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel

He has another trilogy that consists of "Children of Time," "Children of Ruin," and "Children of Memory". Each is excellent, very unique, and incredibly creative. Trigger warning: Do Not Read If You Are Afraid of Spiders or Squids! Again, a very high recommendation for this trilogy as well.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 07, 2023 09:31 AM (NK7zI)

64 40 I like spy novels so I'll take suggestions.
Posted by: Ciampino -- Kitty update https://is.gd/WQ5JcT at May 07, 2023

***
The best of the James Bond novels, From Russia With Love. Eric Ambler's Journey into Fear.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:20 AM (omVj0)
----
I actually have all the early James Bond paperbacks from the 50's and 60's. I read them before he was famous thanks to my boarding school housemaster Mr Purdy, who kept me fed with each early book as it got published.
I've read Silva, Griffin, Le Carre, Vince Flynn. Loved the Jason Mathews 'Red Sparrow' and 'Palace of Fear' immensely. Is there a 3rd volume?

Posted by: Ciampino - Cat update https://is.gd/WQ5JcT at May 07, 2023 09:31 AM (qfLjt)

65 Let me know.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 07, 2023 09:28 AM (1n+EO)
\
VIA, my brother!

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar (hOUT3) ~ This year in Corsicana - again! ~ at May 07, 2023 09:31 AM (hOUT3)

66 Ciampino.

I find the real spy stories far more interesting than any spy novel. It is one genre where real life is more crazy than anything anyone can dream up.
I'd recommend Spycatcher by Peter Wright. From there a whole world opens up just studying names in that book.

Posted by: Reforger at May 07, 2023 09:32 AM (B705c)

67 “I see,” he said, utterly confused and silently vowing to be more circumspect about asking questions in the future.
Posted by: Durak Kazyol at May 07, 2023 09:30 AM (4zxRq)
---
You can find some excellent videos about the structure of the atom on YouTube. The reality of what actually happens in each atom is *far* more complicated than most people realize. This complex ballet between protons, neutrons, and electrons is, in fact, one of the key reasons why I firmly believe in a Creator.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 07, 2023 09:33 AM (BpYfr)

68 "VIA, my brother!"

Once more...we ride again!!!

Can I interest you in any Naval Institute Press hardcover books concerning WWII?

Biographies of all the major Admirals, etc...

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 07, 2023 09:34 AM (1n+EO)

69 Boookzzzz!!!

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 07, 2023 09:34 AM (heDAl)

70 I wonder how many politicians wanted to name their memoir "My Struggle" and got pissed off when the publisher told them not to?

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 07, 2023 09:35 AM (QZxDR)

71 so in a place like Marbella, who would be a Marlowe, perhaps a British intel operative, with a complicated backstory, who would be Colonel Sternwood, perhaps maybe a Saudi financier with even more shadowy tendrils,

Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 09:35 AM (PXvVL)

72 I actually have all the early James Bond paperbacks from the 50's and 60's. I read them before he was famous thanks to my boarding school housemaster Mr Purdy, who kept me fed with each early book as it got published.
I've read Silva, Griffin, Le Carre, Vince Flynn. Loved the Jason Mathews 'Red Sparrow' and 'Palace of Fear' immensely. Is there a 3rd volume?
Posted by: Ciampino - Cat update https://is.gd/WQ5JcT at May 07, 2023

***
Ambler was Ian Fleming before there was a Fleming. His stories seemed to focus on the innocent or non-spy character as the lead being caught up in spy or counterintelligence adventures. Journey Into Fear, for instance, features an English engineer who is in the wrong place and time, and the Germans take an unhealthy interest in him.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:35 AM (omVj0)

73 I'm reading some insipid chick lit this week, in which characters "chuckle" and the protagonists are saccharine. Ugh. I'm out of reading material.

Posted by: Ladyl at May 07, 2023 09:36 AM (+4oV5)

74 50 100 Bullets.

Starts with the premise: What would you do if you had the opportunity to take revenge for a wrong against you and could get away with it?"

Everyone should have a list.

Posted by: Tom Servo at May 07, 2023 09:36 AM (S6gqv)

75 the kremlins candidate, yes matthews spent a career, in the Soviet division, where he encountered the spymaster of the chapman circule,

Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 09:37 AM (PXvVL)

76 I read most of the Durant series back in the far distant past, but gave up. Still, he has a great quote in Vol 1 (mostly right, I think): "A nation's soul is its religion and seldom survives philosophy". I gave up because Vol 8 or whatever, had a binding error and had replaced one of the collections of pages (what are they called anyway?) w/the previous collection. Anyway, I gave up on it.

Started Athanasius (On the Incarnation) this week. Also started Dragonbone Chair.

Posted by: yara at May 07, 2023 09:37 AM (2QYbD)

77 Same here; but I SHOULD finish cutting my grass and turning the dirt in my garden over.
Posted by: JT at May 07, 2023 09:25 AM (T4tVD)

I SHOULD have done that after I worked out yesterday, but I decided to eat something instead. Now it's going to be raining for four days. I am an idjit.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at May 07, 2023 09:37 AM (OX9vb)

78 I finally finished Cryptonomicon after putting it aside for a couple of months about half way through. I still don't care for Stephenson's style although I guess I don't hate it like I used to. Way too many loose ends left lying about and I don't think I care enough to read another couple of thousand pages to pick them up.

I started reading a book of Celtic folk/fairy tales. So far in general, they don't seem to have a moral as such (beside maybe "Don't f* with the Little People" but not even really that). Clearly they were stories meant to be told and listened to, not read on paper but I don't seem to have an itinerant bard handy so it'll have to do.

Posted by: Oddbob at May 07, 2023 09:38 AM (nfrXX)

79 More spy / secret agent novels.

"Red Cell" and "Cold Shot" by Mark Henshaw. Two-person CIA analyst team goes on field assignments to follow up on their conclusions.

These are set in current times -- these agents use satellite phones.

Henshaw, who comes from the intelligence world, has written two more books with these characters, but I have yet to read them although I own them. That's why I'm not naming them. Start with "Red Cell."

I also recommend the Greg Rucka series Queen & Country. This began as a comics series and then became novels. It has continuing characters, but each story stands alone. Each of the comics stories had a different artist. Interesting to see the different interpretations.

Lots of office dialogue, so when the action happens, it has an impact.

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 07, 2023 09:38 AM (uIu2G)

80 Noir as literary genre is an outgrowth of detective fiction. The principle sources were Hammett and Chandler, and the prototype is probably Sam Spade.
Spade does shady things among shady people he doesn't like much, often for people who lie to him and are rarely any better, whose only good attribute is they pay him. The only saving grace is that he does it to follow his code of what is right. It is a way to try to balance out the world and often causes as much misery and pain as ignoring it, but he can't turn his back if he has taken the obligation because that would mean losing the final element of value and meaning in his life.

Posted by: Kindltot at May 07, 2023 09:39 AM (xhaym)

81 The other book is Donna Tartt's _The Secret History_, about a bunch of classics scholars gone rogue at a very Bennington-like college in Vermont. I think it was partly inspired by a real disappearance in that area. It's a good story, with some very strange characters. However, I tend to quibble with Tartt's depiction of 1980s college life. Maybe they did things differently at Bennington, but this book feels more like it's set in the 1950s than the 1980s.

I've heard of the book, but never read it. As you say it sounds more like the 1950s, I wonder if it was inspired by the 1946 disappearance of Paula Welden?

https://tinyurl.com/53sabchm

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 07, 2023 09:40 AM (AW0uW)

82 In the dark early days of the Guadalcanal campaign, a P-39 pilot was enjoying the only available book during his down time. It was a cheap government issue copy of the best of Damon Runyon. Other pilots noticed his enjoyment of it, & it ended up being passed around his squadron.

Later another pilot used one of the characters as a call sign during a fight. The air controllers were confused, but soon most of the squadron was using Runyonesque characters and language. (But sir, it's encryption)

In memory of the Airacobra pilots of the 347th FS of the Cactus air force, the best of Runyan is in the to be read pile. I'm not expecting high literature, but in the right mood I expect much enjoyment.

Posted by: InspiredHistoryMike at May 07, 2023 09:40 AM (DWTz2)

83 That doll house library is beyond charming. I have a vague memory of little girls in my neighborhood who would 'read' to their baby dolls. Don't know if that still goes on but I hope so.

Posted by: JTB at May 07, 2023 09:40 AM (7EjX1)

84 Dave Barry -

If you're in here....write another novel.

If you're not in here write two dozen more.

Why leave a legacy when you can leave an Arm and a LEGacy !

Posted by: JT at May 07, 2023 09:42 AM (T4tVD)

85 I have the Durant's series from about 15-1600 - 1815, they are hefty reading but should get the early volumes

Posted by: Skip at May 07, 2023 09:43 AM (xhxe8)

86 yes Ruckas Queen and Country, is the female hardboiled version of James Bond, I don't know who could do Tara Chace justice,

there's also James Swallows NOMAD series, which leans in on the tech side of the espionage game, which has a touch of Ambler,

Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 09:44 AM (PXvVL)

87 I'm reading some insipid chick lit this week, in which characters "chuckle" and the protagonists are saccharine. Ugh. I'm out of reading material.

Posted by: Ladyl at May 07, 2023 09:36 AM (+4oV5)

If I only do one thing consistently in the worthless writing I do, it's to never have a character "chuckle."

Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023 09:44 AM (Angsy)

88 40 I like spy novels so I'll take suggestions.
Posted by: Ciampino -- Kitty update https://is.gd/WQ5JcT at May 07, 2023

Have you read Manning Coles? WWII era spy novels--I found a volume of 3 of them at an antique store and quite enjoyed them. Looks like there are a bunch of them on kindle, if you use that.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at May 07, 2023 09:44 AM (OX9vb)

89 Not a book but a magazine: I've been terribly disappointed by the decline of The Economist over the past few years. Started subscribing back in the Bush years as it was a nice alternative to the brainwashed lockstep superficiality of American news media. They actually covered the whole world, not just lower Manhattan and parts of LA.

But with Trump's election and Brexit the whole staff lost their goddamned minds. They've completely adopted the CRT/DEI/BLM mindset, their COVID coverage was one-sided and dishonest, and every article, no matter what the topic, has to include a dig at Trump or Boris Johnson.

Are there any print news magazines that aren't run by a pack of Woke NPCs?

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 07, 2023 09:44 AM (QZxDR)

90 @50 --

Sort of a noir version of the TV show The Millionaire, huh?

Yes -- and no.

I don't want to spoil anything. The trade collections shouldn't be too hard to find.

I forgot to mention that the series ran for 100 issues.

One of the best from DC's Vertigo line.

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 07, 2023 09:45 AM (uIu2G)

91 Ah, the book thread! I awoke to the sound of thunder and decided the early Mass suited my mood. Better than normal turnout, especially with the students gone.

This week I've been reading the first half of Max Saunder's Ford Madox Ford: a dual life. Unless you are a hard-core fan of Ford Madox Ford, DO NOT TRY THIS BOOK.

I am, so I'm enjoying it. The childhood chapters were something of a slog, but now that he's an adult and married and being a total jackass (his lifelong vocation), I'm enjoying it.

On my blog, I've pondered the parallels between Ford and Evelyn Waugh, of which there are quite a few. Both were born into artistic families, both converted to Catholicism, both were older men when the went to war and both were modern in style, but traditional in outlook.

However, Ford's conversion was largely out of affectation, and it wasn't long before he abandoned his wife and children. His two best-known works (The Good Soldier and Parade's End) manifest a sense that love - its pursuit and consummation - is the highest ideal, regardless of what faith has to say about it.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 09:45 AM (llXky)

92 hes running an op in Dunkirk which goes pearshaped and he is blamed for the loss of the team,

Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 09:45 AM (PXvVL)

93 The Sparrow ... wow !!! excellent read

Posted by: Qmark at May 07, 2023 09:46 AM (+t9Oi)

94 . . . the prototype is probably Sam Spade.
Spade does shady things among shady people he doesn't like much, often for people who lie to him and are rarely any better, whose only good attribute is they pay him. The only saving grace is that he does it to follow his code of what is right. . . .
Posted by: Kindltot at May 07, 2023

***
Spade, at least in Maltese Falcon, is a bit of a rat. He's been having an affair with his business partner's wife, for instance.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:46 AM (omVj0)

95 And since she's been brought up, a new Theda Bara book (not by me) is coming out this fall. It's supposed to be a complete examination of her films, though how one does that when most of them are lost is beyond me.

Yeah, these two sentences in the description seem kinda contradictory.

With the vast majority of Bara's films considered lost, it is a particularly valuable resource for fans and scholars, and includes information about each film's genesis, director, plot, censorship problems, and critical and public reactions.

Also, forty bucks in paperback?! Yikes.

Posted by: Oddbob at May 07, 2023 09:47 AM (nfrXX)

96 (con't) Ford's problem of course was that he couldn't stay committed; passionate affairs tended to fade, and so as he got older, he was increasingly derided, discredited and ultimately, almost forgotten. Without loyal children to carry on his legacy (as seen in the cases of Waugh, Lewis, Tolkien, etc.) it had almost disappeared before Graham Greene spurred a revival in the 1960s.

I've just reached the point where he meets his friend and great collaborator Joseph Conrad. Looking forward to that.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 09:47 AM (llXky)

97 But with Trump's election and Brexit the whole staff lost their goddamned minds. They've completely adopted the CRT/DEI/BLM mindset, their COVID coverage was one-sided and dishonest, and every article, no matter what the topic, has to include a dig at Trump or Boris Johnson.

I cancelled my subscription to the pop history mag BBC History for just that reason. Fortean Times was also pretty TDS for a while, but they seem to have returned to some bit of sanity.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 07, 2023 09:48 AM (AW0uW)

98 I started reading a book of Celtic folk/fairy tales. So far in general, they don't seem to have a moral as such (beside maybe "Don't f* with the Little People" but not even really that). Clearly they were stories meant to be told and listened to, not read on paper but I don't seem to have an itinerant bard handy so it'll have to do.
Posted by: Oddbob at May 07, 2023 09:38 AM (nfrXX)

Guenon was right I think when he described "folk tales" as time capsules from extinct traditions. He went so far as to say that the last conscious members who fully understood the tradition would create them and "entrust" them to the lowest classes for preservation. The lowest classes being the least likely to alter them.

So, they're really just black boxes we can't open anymore. But the hope was, one day, someone could open them.

Obv, we can see the aesthetics and the patterns but not the important meanings. And maybe on some very deep unconscious level we respond to the "hidden" meaning. I know for me the imagery is very powerful but I have no idea why....

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 09:49 AM (x+aI8)

99 Ken Bruen is a good noir crime writer.

His earlier stuff is better IMO.

"American Skin" is excellent.

"Once Were Cops" is very good.

Both are set in America though he's an Irish writer and have some Irish characters. Being Irish he gets a few American idioms and the like not quite right, but the strength of the stories allows you to ignore that.

His Jack Taylor series set in Galway is probably his most famous.

His outlook is pretty bleak, but hey! you're reading noir. Go read Pippi Longstocking if you want happy-clappy.

Check him out.

Posted by: naturalfake at May 07, 2023 09:49 AM (RJQ8g)

100 Are there any print news magazines that aren't run by a pack of Woke NPCs?

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 07, 2023 09:44 AM (QZxDR)
---
First Things. It's a magazine of literature and faith, ten issues per year. Every erudite - reminiscent of National Review when Buckley was firmly in control.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 09:49 AM (llXky)

101 Have you read Manning Coles? WWII era spy novels--I found a volume of 3 of them at an antique store and quite enjoyed them. Looks like there are a bunch of them on kindle, if you use that.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at May 07, 2023

***
Oh, yes! MC's Tommy Hambledon novels sport flashes of humor as well as solid adventure. Tommy himself is an irreverent type. In one WWII adventure, when the Nazis are fooling with a new explosive, Tommy refers to it as "Poppo."

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:49 AM (omVj0)

102 Ciampino, Len Deighton is always fun, and if you might also look at Manning Coles' A Toast to Tomorrow, and the follow up A Drink to Yesterday, which is following Tommy Hambleton through WWI

Posted by: Kindltot at May 07, 2023 09:51 AM (xhaym)

103 You can find some excellent videos about the structure of the atom on YouTube. The reality of what actually happens in each atom is *far* more complicated than most people realize. This complex ballet between protons, neutrons, and electrons is, in fact, one of the key reasons why I firmly believe in a Creator.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel
—————-
Very interesting. It is Darwin who converted me. No human society is without belief in God, none, including the USSR where they tried to eliminate it. It is a natural, inherent characteristic and once one realizes that it’s easy to see how fundamental it is to the flourishing of individuals and our societies.

Posted by: Durak Kazyol at May 07, 2023 09:52 AM (4zxRq)

104 Sam Spade doesn't really have a code. He is more driven by something he doesn't understand. It is something Higher and Better than him driving him though. Not something animalistic and criminal.

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 09:52 AM (x+aI8)

105 I've often wondered if Robert Towne, as he wrote Chinatown, pictured Hammett's Spade as Jake Gittes. As played by Nicholson, Gittes does look very much the way Hammett described Spade, his face all V's and looking "rather pleasantly like a blond Satan."

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:53 AM (omVj0)

106 the earlier set pieces are from my work in progress, called Jambiya

Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 09:55 AM (PXvVL)

107 I've seen First Things, but I mean an actual NEWS magazine. Something that will run 500-1000 word news articles about stuff that's currently happening, so I don't have to rely on unraveling the subtext of a 30-second broadcast segment.

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 07, 2023 09:56 AM (QZxDR)

108 I don't read noir, but I'm a fan of the movie genre. I disagree that noir rejects all morality or is purely nihilistic, I think that it rejects *conventional* morality, middle class conventions. It cuts to the heart of the issue and is both more visceral and practical.

Thus: Spade cheats on his partner, but he also knows his partner cheats on his wife. Still, he has to avenge his partner because if he doesn't, it will make him a coward and therefore a target.

BTW, the fact that noir films were made shows that the Hays Code was quite flexible. Mister, we could sure use something like today.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 09:57 AM (llXky)

109
If I only do one thing consistently in the worthless writing I do, it's to never have a character "chuckle."
Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023 09:44 AM (Angsy)

Bless you! I loved the old Robert Parker "Spenser" and "Jesse Stone" novels in which conversation and character reaction to it was NOT explained to the reader.

Posted by: Ladyl at May 07, 2023 09:57 AM (+4oV5)

110 Ciampino, Len Deighton is always fun, and if you might also look at Manning Coles' A Toast to Tomorrow, and the follow up A Drink to Yesterday, which is following Tommy Hambleton through WWI
Posted by: Kindltot at May 07, 2023

***
Some widely-read I]Man From U.N.C.L.E. fans think that David McDaniel, in his Rainbow Affair original tie-in novel, has Tommy Hambledon appear as a British Intelligence agent. Like so many British literary characters in this romp, his name isn't given. He bosses two agents who are clearly John Steed and Mrs. Peel of The Avengers and in fact he calls her "you little minx," which sounds much like Hambledon's speaking style.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:58 AM (omVj0)

111 I can't recall the source -- maybe Steven King? -- but one definition of Noir is that "evil endures." Any victories are personal and fleeting.

As to Sam Spade, I think one can look at Maltese Falcon as a kind of moral awakening for him. At the start he (and his partner) are pretty corrupt, but during the affair of the Falcon he finds there's one thing he isn't willing to sacrifice.

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 07, 2023 09:59 AM (QZxDR)

112 Thanks for the great Book Thread, Perfesser! The Horde's knowledge is indeed wide and deep.

I've been reading as a guilty pleasure the last couple of weeks. J.D. Robb writes futuristic detective fiction with a touch of romance and I gobble them up like peanuts. No noir there! I actually prefer the positive endings and moral strength in the good guys.

Posted by: Legally Sufficient at May 07, 2023 10:00 AM (vfKOf)

113 The Tommy Hambledon stories are great. Probably the greatest is the first one, _Drink to Yesterday_. The authors pull a mean trick on the reader, though: they start by killing a character and then spend the rest of the book making you fall in love with him.

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 07, 2023 10:01 AM (QZxDR)

114 If I only do one thing consistently in the worthless writing I do, it's to never have a character "chuckle."
Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023

***
"He chuckled" is fine as a standalone sentence or a tag, viz:

"Those days?" Milton chuckled. "Hell of a time, wasn't it?"

On the other hand:
"We had a hell of a time," Milton chuckled. (This is a said-ism, an attempt to avoid using "said" that doesn't work. It's impossible to chuckle, laugh, or grin a word.) "Said" is pretty invisible to a reader. You can use "asked," or "told me," or "whispered" or "roared." But "said" is always useful.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 10:02 AM (omVj0)

115 Comment: Early Christianity was a weird time. There were lots of competing ideologies out there from people just trying to understand what Christianity really meant. We are still struggling to understand it today, if the competing sects and factions of Christianity are anything to go by.
---
I'd argue that virtually none of today's disputes are about Christology, which now seems something of an afterthought. For the early Church, however, wrapping one's head around a non-pagan worldview was difficult, and there were constant efforts to try to fuse the two.

The issues today are mostly social, and also recent. The multiplicity of voices stems from the Protestant schism, and more specifically the American take on it. most Protestant denominations reject a formal, empowered hierarchy, thus promoting schism. Consider that Wesley himself was an Anglican priest and Methodism was a reform movement within that church. However, it split off, and then split again and again and again. There have also been unions, but once one rejects authority, it is to be expected.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 10:03 AM (llXky)

116 I don't like real noir books. These days I'm not in the mood for nihilism, even if well written. Too close to the crap that threatens to inundate us. A couple of years ago I started to reread Fahrenheit 451 but the mindset in the beginning drove me crazy with its acceptance of bland, stifling, cultural evil.

I have no problem with the protagonist struggling. That's the essence of a story. But where nothing is good or hopeful there is no appeal. If I want that shit, I'll watch the news.

Posted by: JTB at May 07, 2023 10:04 AM (7EjX1)

117 Rejection of "morality" isn't necessarily nihilism. And an embrace of "morality" can be nihilistic. I personally believe "morality" is nihilism. It's a recent concept, really. At least in the sense it can be a basis for a culture.

Transcendent Truth breaks through and shatters "morality" which is really just a group of concessions ppl make for social cohesion.

Saints aren't "moral" ppl.

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 10:05 AM (x+aI8)

118 chinatown is definitely more spade than marlowe in tone, lady in the lake is more lackadaisical, mcqueens harper is certainly more in the first category,

Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 10:06 AM (PXvVL)

119 Good Morning

Finished 3rd book in William Gibson's Bridge Trilogy. All Tomorrow's Parties. The title has nothing to do with the story. I started with book 2, IDORU which luckily had no spoilers for book 1 Virtual Light but I was really glad I read it before book 3 because it was really necessary to e joy book 3. In this book, AI takes a bit of a back seat and the personalities of his characters dominate the story. They are learning to survive in this new dystopian world which he which you can see clearly in his descriptions. It is both progress and degradation. The tearing down of the old way and creating a new paradigm which not everyone subscribes to.
You can see Gibson's ideas of the cyberverse taking form as he plays with different ideas of how humans and AI would interact.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 07, 2023 10:06 AM (Y+l9t)

120 OK, folks, it's sunny and warm outside. Think I'll set up the lawn chair, spark a cigar and relax. Hope you all have a lovely day.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 07, 2023 10:06 AM (AW0uW)

121
On the other hand:
"We had a hell of a time," Milton chuckled. (This is a said-ism, an attempt to avoid using "said" that doesn't work. It's impossible to chuckle, laugh, or grin a word.) "Said" is pretty invisible to a reader. You can use "asked," or "told me," or "whispered" or "roared." But "said" is always useful.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 10:02 AM (omVj0)

Yes!

But I prefer the character not to be identified in conversation. I prefer the writing of conversation, as if one was only hearing it. No need to always identify the speaker if the writing is crisp enough.

Posted by: Ladyl at May 07, 2023 10:06 AM (+4oV5)

122 re: Otto von Bismarck

Possibly apocryphal but someone asked Alexander the Great who would come after him, he replied, "the strongest."

Such people can't allow capable subordinates to exists for they would threaten their power. And once said person croaked it was a free for all as what happened to Alexander's empire which splintered into three empires and having Ptolemy steal Alexander's body to cement his control of Egypt.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 07, 2023 10:07 AM (hsRrI)

123 This is purely speculating, but . . .

Is Noir partly informed by what Tolkein called the idea of the "Long Defeat"? After all, it's pretty solid Christian doctrine that the world is fallen and sinful. You aren't going to beat evil -- that's the Redeemer's job. All you can do is hang on and not give up your own soul. Isn't that kind of what Noir protagonists do?

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 07, 2023 10:07 AM (QZxDR)

124 I have no problem with the protagonist struggling. That's the essence of a story. But where nothing is good or hopeful there is no appeal. If I want that shit, I'll watch the news.
Posted by: JTB at May 07, 2023

***
I want to see Evil or the opposing force defeated, even if temporarily, even if the protagonist dies in the process.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 10:08 AM (omVj0)

125 Is Noir partly informed by what Tolkein called the idea of the "Long Defeat"? After all, it's pretty solid Christian doctrine that the world is fallen and sinful. You aren't going to beat evil -- that's the Redeemer's job. All you can do is hang on and not give up your own soul. Isn't that kind of what Noir protagonists do?
Posted by: Trimegistus at May 07, 2023 10:07 AM (QZxDR)

Yes. I think so. Well said.

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 10:09 AM (x+aI8)

126 "Trouble Walked In" by Mike Kupari is an excellent sci-fi noir book. I am not particularly a noir fan, though I like various movies, and I read it because I like Kupari's work rather than for the theme. I am glad I did and happy to have it as part of my library.

Posted by: Sam at May 07, 2023 10:10 AM (ohyxL)

127 Is Noir partly informed by what Tolkein called the idea of the "Long Defeat"? After all, it's pretty solid Christian doctrine that the world is fallen and sinful. You aren't going to beat evil -- that's the Redeemer's job. All you can do is hang on and not give up your own soul. Isn't that kind of what Noir protagonists do?

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 07, 2023 10:07 AM (QZxDR)
---
Absolutely. Let us not forget that it arose in the aftermath of WW I, the organized crime wave of Prohibition and the Great Depression, getting a big boost from WW II.

Part of the "detective mentality" is that the world's going to hell in a handbasket, and all we can do is make our own way. One doesn't want to be played for a sap, but one also isn't going to be gutless.

Getting beat up is embarassing, but not shameful unless you didn't fight back. It's a very visceral, practical code.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 10:11 AM (llXky)

128 Yes!

But I prefer the character not to be identified in conversation. I prefer the writing of conversation, as if one was only hearing it. No need to always identify the speaker if the writing is crisp enough.
Posted by: Ladyl at May 07, 2023

***
I agree -- though a long string of untagged lines from alternating characters can get confusing if you don't somehow ID who's speaking now and then. Have him light a cigarette as he speaks, or pour a cup of coffee, or scratch his chin.

Also you can do it in the dialog itself. For instance:

"Mrs. Sumner?"
"Forgive me, Dr. Randall."

This way we know who spoke the preceding line, because the reply includes his name in direct address. My writing group people think I should have a "I asked" after the first line. I don't think I need it.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 10:12 AM (omVj0)

129 Guess what, we are living a cyberpunk dystopian where the zaibatsu like Google and Facebook decide what people know.

Oh for a skull gun.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 07, 2023 10:12 AM (hsRrI)

130 I like spy novels so I'll take suggestions.
Posted by: Ciampino -- Kitty update https://is.gd/WQ5JcT at May 07, 2023 09:17 AM (qfLjt)
* * * *
I've enjoyed a series by Ted Bell featuring Alex Hawke. Hawke is very similar to James Bond but I found him quite likeable. The novels run to 500+ pages and the detail is phenomenal but not overdone.

Posted by: Legally Sufficient at May 07, 2023 10:13 AM (vfKOf)

131 I've been reading as a guilty pleasure the last couple of weeks. J.D. Robb writes futuristic detective fiction with a touch of romance and I gobble them up like peanuts. No noir there! I actually prefer the positive endings and moral strength in the good guys.
Posted by: Legally Sufficient
A guilty pleasure of mine as well. I read Amanda Quick's new one The Bride Wore White this week. I enjoy a little romance along with a good mystery.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 07, 2023 10:13 AM (Y+l9t)

132 . . .After all, it's pretty solid Christian doctrine that the world is fallen and sinful. You aren't going to beat evil -- that's the Redeemer's job. All you can do is hang on and not give up your own soul. . . .
Posted by: Trimegistus

And speaking of that, off to Mass.

Read on! Book Threadists.

Posted by: Tonypete at May 07, 2023 10:13 AM (qoGsy)

133 The authors pull a mean trick on the reader, though: they start by killing a character and then spend the rest of the book making you fall in love with him.
Posted by: Trimegistus at May 07, 2023 10:01 AM (QZxDR)

Yes, that was an unusual, but effective device.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at May 07, 2023 10:13 AM (OX9vb)

134 Dash my Lace wigs: I just started "In The First Circle", too. I'm far enough in to have an opinion and it is excellent. The first couple of chapters when he leaves the prisoners and gets into Stalin's live and thoughts are just incredible. Obviously I don't know if he goes back there again. To reinforce my dystopian mood, I watched "The Lives of Others" last night and cannot recommend it more strongly. It's a must see. I also started Dostoevsky's The Devils which looks to be an easier read than the Russian's reputation and length would suggest, but then again I just got started.

Posted by: who knew at May 07, 2023 10:14 AM (4I7VG)

135 gaspar guttman the villain in falcon, was based on maury gregory, an infamous information broker, mask for dimitrious was based on the notorious basil zaharoff, the arms dealer for half of pre war europe,

Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 10:15 AM (PXvVL)

136 But I prefer the character not to be identified in conversation. I prefer the writing of conversation, as if one was only hearing it. No need to always identify the speaker if the writing is crisp enough.

Posted by: Ladyl at May 07, 2023 10:06 AM (+4oV5)
---
One can also simply have them address each other.

"Milton, you're a fool, and I've said so before."

I like using rapid-fire dialog and "said" clutters things up. I also try to let the words speak for themselves, but I will have reactions because you'd see them if you were present.

He raised an eyebrow. "We'll see about that."

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 10:15 AM (llXky)

137 My reading this week was not profound but very entertaining. The latest issue of Backwoodsman magazine arrived and there are hours of fun reading in each edition. Then I indulged in some Conan stories, taking the time to enjoy Howard's word choice and pacing.

Then some of the chapters from "Tidings from the Eighteenth Century" by Beth Gilgun. In the 1980s she wrote a series of articles for Muzzleloader magazine. Her persona was a wife and mother of a family on the northeast frontier in the mid-1700s and how she and her family lived in their small settlement. The topics cover sewing, spinning, games for the children, militia responsibilities for the men, and more. It's in the form of letters to friends who are curious about how she manages away from cities or large towns. The book is accurate history presented in an entertaining way.

Posted by: JTB at May 07, 2023 10:15 AM (7EjX1)

138 *shudders*

Interpreting The Big Sleep for modern audiences.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 07, 2023 10:16 AM (hsRrI)

139
He raised an eyebrow. "We'll see about that."
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 10:15 AM (llXky)

That is precisely the type of writing I like!

Posted by: Ladyl at May 07, 2023 10:16 AM (+4oV5)

140 like sunset boulevard, william holden is the corpse in the pool, but we don't know that till the end

Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 10:17 AM (PXvVL)

141 That is precisely the type of writing I like!

Posted by: Ladyl at May 07, 2023 10:16 AM (+4oV5)
---
By remarkable coincidence, I have a few books that might interest you.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 10:17 AM (llXky)

142 On the other hand:
"We had a hell of a time," Milton chuckled. (This is a said-ism, an attempt to avoid using "said" that doesn't work. It's impossible to chuckle, laugh, or grin a word.) "Said" is pretty invisible to a reader. You can use "asked," or "told me," or "whispered" or "roared." But "said" is always useful.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 10:02 AM (omVj0)

Wolfus, I try to avoid using "said." I like the idea of putting some action between dialog to indicate the speaker. "Well, I don't like it." Richard reached for a match. "It irritates me." (something like that). Also, when only two people are conversing, I just use the dialog. It should be clear who's speaking.

Also, I don't use "chuckle" anyway. Because Ladyl doesn't like it....

Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023 10:17 AM (Angsy)

143 You can see Gibson's ideas of the cyberverse taking form as he plays with different ideas of how humans and AI would interact.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 07, 2023 10:06 AM (Y+l9t)

I just started Virtual Light last night--this is my choice for family book club. My initial thought is that it's a little dated, but so am I, so no problem for me. I hope it doesn't turn off the millennial offspring, though. Ha!

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at May 07, 2023 10:18 AM (OX9vb)

144 Sir Alistair Langtry steepled his fingers whilst his eyebrows lowered to give one an impression looking on of a tonsured monk deep in prayer. But the gleam in his eyes told of excitement. "More is in play than thought."

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 07, 2023 10:18 AM (hsRrI)

145 Not sure I believe that Noir can't have heroes or anti-heroes....Or maybe that just means I don't actually like Noir, and I instead (sometimes) like hard-boiled detectives instead. I prefer the stories to have heroes who know they are fighting a loosing fight, or who know that they are compromising their morals for the greater (even if small or fleeting) good.

But, then, I don't read a lot of Noir. Mostly the Garett PI fantasy/noir books by Glen Cook.

I also have "The Black Lizard Big Book of Pulps" paperback from a few years ago (currently only 5 bucks on Amazon!) but I drifted away from reading that about half-way through...

Posted by: Castle Guy at May 07, 2023 10:19 AM (92RsY)

146

Also, I don't use "chuckle" anyway. Because Ladyl doesn't like it....
Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023 10:17 AM (Angsy)

Thank you!!!

Posted by: Ladyl at May 07, 2023 10:19 AM (+4oV5)

147 sternwood is a character somewhat like doheny, the early 20th century oil magnate, tied up in tea pot dome (a tempest in a teapot by modern standards)

parker professionalized the lapd, along marine lies, something
that james ellroy tries to ignore

Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 10:20 AM (PXvVL)

148 I started with book 2, IDORU which luckily had no spoilers for book 1 Virtual Light but I was really glad I read it before book 3 because it was really necessary to e joy book 3.

I remember reading Idoru a long time ago but I somehow managed to skip over Virtual Light. I'm sure I have a copy around. I suppose I should find it and read it. The recent TV version of The Peripheral has sort of renewed my interest in Gibson.

Posted by: Oddbob at May 07, 2023 10:20 AM (nfrXX)

149 Mask for Demetrious is fantastic.

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 10:21 AM (x+aI8)

150 The Igno-daughter has organized a little seminar for us on "Cormac McCarthy and the American Southwest."

We include Empire of the Summer Moon which I'm into now. It almost won the Pulitizer. It's about the Comanche who were such good horse warriors that they drove the Spanish and the Apaches to flee Texas. The US Army couldn't beat them in the field, which is why we nearly made the buffalo extinct. To me this is one of the darkest things that we ever did. but Manifest Destiny ....

It leads into the story of Quanah Parker -- the Last Comanche -- who was already on my list of Americans who should be famous but aren't. The Comanche routinely wiped out white settlers, and savagely so, but would take girls as captives. One was Quanah's mother. In time he became the leader of the Comanche until they were no more.

We'll be reading Blood Meridian, which I've started a couple of times. It's very Faulkner and Cormac uses archaic words to invoke the times. A hard slog, but I'll get through it this time,

Posted by: Ignoramus at May 07, 2023 10:21 AM (RqMSv)

151 Noir?

Jim Thompson, James M. Cain, and Cornell Woolrich were the guys that really did it for me.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at May 07, 2023 10:21 AM (a/4+U)

152 141 That is precisely the type of writing I like!

Posted by: Ladyl at May 07, 2023 10:16 AM (+4oV5)
---
By remarkable coincidence, I have a few books that might interest you.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 10:17 AM (llXky)

I think you may have!!!

Posted by: Ladyl at May 07, 2023 10:21 AM (+4oV5)

153 I recently re-watched the Bogart film of The Big Sleep and was startled to realize that at no point in the film does anyone actually state what the porn racket is doing. In the film, the bookseller has a "racket" and is blackmailing Carmen, but the movie never quite says what's going on. Apparently audiences could figure it out, or didn't care.

Imagine trying to set a story like that in the present. Carmen posing for porn wouldn't be a blackmail secret, it would be on the cover of Vanity Fair. Her murderous fugue states would be an affirmative defense at her trial. She'd be the spokesperson for "sudden murder syndrome."

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 07, 2023 10:22 AM (QZxDR)

154 It's about the Glanton gang, scalp hunters who massacred Indians along the border in the late 1840s for bounty and sadistic pleasure. Cormac went to lengths to get the history right. It's so brutal that several attempts to make a movie of it have failed. It's part of our history.

We just rewatched No Country For Old Men. I love the Coen Brothers. Remarkable that this pair also made Lebowski -- could these two flicks be more different?

The movie emphasizes the theme in the book about Fate and Chaos. The book also has the theme that the blood-soaked land of our Southwest is what gives rise to an Anton Chiggurh.

And the Yeats poem that Cormac used for the title.

Then Cormac's Border Trilogy, and the movie All the Pretty Horses.

Posted by: Ignoramus at May 07, 2023 10:22 AM (RqMSv)

155 42 ... "Also the Matt Helm stories by Donald Hamilton. forget the parody films with Dean Martin. These are tough and tough-minded paperback thrillers with some hardboiled realism."

Agreed. In fact, check out any of Hamilton's books: non-Helm, westerns (highly recommended), even his nonfiction books like "Cruises With Kathleen" and "On Guns and Hunting.

Posted by: JTB at May 07, 2023 10:22 AM (7EjX1)

156 Wolfus, I try to avoid using "said." I like the idea of putting some action between dialog to indicate the speaker. "Well, I don't like it." Richard reached for a match. "It irritates me." (something like that). Also, when only two people are conversing, I just use the dialog. It should be clear who's speaking.

Also, I don't use "chuckle" anyway. Because Ladyl doesn't like it....
Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023

***
You do that well. My only concern is that in a *long* exchange with two people, if there are no tags or clues at all, a reader may get lost. Having A address B by name will let us know A is speaking.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 10:23 AM (omVj0)

157 Virtual Light? Might as well glom a copy of Snow Crash by Stephenson then. Or the more obscure Arachne by Lisa Mason.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 07, 2023 10:23 AM (hsRrI)

158 Rats. Save tags for the... save.

Posted by: Oddbob at May 07, 2023 10:24 AM (nfrXX)

159 yes it's more the province of the big lebowski,

howard hawks knew how to negotiate the hayes code, and make things risque, without being lurid,

Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 10:26 AM (PXvVL)

160 Imagine trying to set a story like that in the present. Carmen posing for porn wouldn't be a blackmail secret, it would be on the cover of Vanity Fair. Her murderous fugue states would be an affirmative defense at her trial. She'd be the spokesperson for "sudden murder syndrome."

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 07, 2023 10:22 AM (QZxDR)
---
Most of the crimes the old "vice squad" went after are now considered praiseworthy.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 10:26 AM (llXky)

161 . . . It leads into the story of Quanah Parker -- the Last Comanche -- who was already on my list of Americans who should be famous but aren't. The Comanche routinely wiped out white settlers, and savagely so, but would take girls as captives. One was Quanah's mother. In time he became the leader of the Comanche until they were no more. . . .

Posted by: Ignoramus at May 07, 2023

***
The Comanches' (and other Indians') predilection for capturing and raising white girls, as in Quanah's mother's case, was the inspiration for the novel that became the John Ford film The Searchers.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 10:27 AM (omVj0)

162 The concept of familial shame has been tossed upon the rubbish heap in the quest for 15 minutes of fame.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 07, 2023 10:28 AM (hsRrI)

163 The Library of America volume "Crime Novels: American Noir of the 1930s & 1940s" is a fantastic collection of great novels including "The Postman Always Rings Twice", They Shoot Horses, Don't They", and my personal favorite "Nightmare Alley" If you are a noir fan, do not pass it up.

Posted by: who knew at May 07, 2023 10:28 AM (4I7VG)

164 howard hawks knew how to negotiate the hayes code, and make things risque, without being lurid,
Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 10:26 AM (PXvVL)

As with Poetry, rules and restrictions are aides to creativity.

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 10:28 AM (x+aI8)

165 breakdown of society in the near future (October 28, 2024, to be exact).

-
I saw something about how some smart guy calculated the date of the end of the world and it was in 4000 something. So buckle up; it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 07, 2023 10:29 AM (FVME7)

166 You aren't going to beat evil -- that's the Redeemer's job. All you can do is hang on and not give up your own soul.
Posted by: Trimegistus at May 07, 2023 10:07 AM (QZxDR)

You've put into words what I feel when I read NaCly's advice every day to smile and be happy and put fear into the kill-joy leftists everywhere. It's great advice. Evil is winning the world, but we don't have to let it win us.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at May 07, 2023 10:30 AM (OX9vb)

167 It was the tv series that got me started on the Gibson kick. I read The Peripheral. Then Hrothgar loaned me IDORU. Which got me hooked. His newest, Agency clears up a lot of the ambiguity in The Peripheral and is a great story.
I am so pleased to find writing that continues to surprise me. I never know where he is going with the story while being able to visualize his settings and what his characters look like. It is exciting, like chase scenes in a movie.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 07, 2023 10:31 AM (Y+l9t)

168 You do that well. My only concern is that in a *long* exchange with two people, if there are no tags or clues at all, a reader may get lost. Having A address B by name will let us know A is speaking.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 10:23 AM (omVj0)
---
People also move around while talking. They can fidget, stretch, take a drink and so forth.

My writing style didn't really get settled until the Man of Destiny series, and since then I've embraced a "cinematic" approach, where I assume that the reader is watching the events as they unfold, and therefore narrative asides, internal thoughts are generally out of bounds. If something needs to be explained, someone explains it and it has to be plausibly short - if a character goes on, another will cut them off.

Waugh was hugely influential in this respect.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 10:31 AM (llXky)

169 This new book is kind of noirish.

Get Trump: The Threat to Civil Liberties, Due Process, and Our Constitutional Rule of Law by Alan Dershowitz.

I don't have to read it. I'm living it.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 07, 2023 10:32 AM (FVME7)

170 Thanks Perf.

Empire of the Summer Moon is very good. The Comanche were defeated by modernity; with the plains buffalo gone, repeater rifles common and comparative ease of access for settlers. Stealth raids or not - in their heyday no one could beat them. Texas rangers could claim to have surprised Comanche.. one time. And that event turned to rout-tragedy for the rangers.

Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023 10:32 AM (7Tb4o)

171 I read Amanda Quick's new one The Bride Wore White this week. I enjoy a little romance along with a good mystery.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 07, 2023 10:13 AM (Y+l9t)
* * * *
Thanks for the recommendation!

Posted by: Legally Sufficient at May 07, 2023 10:34 AM (vfKOf)

172 You do that well. My only concern is that in a *long* exchange with two people, if there are no tags or clues at all, a reader may get lost. Having A address B by name will let us know A is speaking.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 10:23 AM (omVj0)

I think I do that on occasion in the current project, but only when there are three or more people in the scene.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023 10:35 AM (Angsy)

173 If you enjoyed the book "Drive Like Hell!" that was the basis for the film "Ford v Ferrari," you may like the book "The Limit: Life and Death on the 1961 Grand Prix Circuit."

It is primarily about the early career of American driver Phil Hill, from dirt track racer to winner of the 1961 24 Hours of LeMans and Formula 1 Championship. The also book weaves in the stories, often tragic, of other top Formula 1 drivers in the late 50's and early 60's.

Posted by: Gref at May 07, 2023 10:36 AM (AMIL/)

174 Empire of the Summer Moon is very good. The Comanche were defeated by modernity; with the plains buffalo gone, repeater rifles common and comparative ease of access for settlers. Stealth raids or not - in their heyday no one could beat them. Texas rangers could claim to have surprised Comanche.. one time. And that event turned to rout-tragedy for the rangers.
Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023

***
Empire also points out a salient fact. The Apaches were expert warriors, raiders, and terrorizers of settlers in their time too. But the Apaches were afraid of the Comanches.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 10:36 AM (omVj0)

175 My reading of the Nero Wolfe novels continues apace. So far every darn one of them is good - to very good.

Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023 10:37 AM (7Tb4o)

176 yes that can get complicated particularly in an exposition dump, specially with more than one language,

Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 10:37 AM (PXvVL)

177 Library of America did a companion volume of 50s noir, which also has some terrific stuff including David Goodis' Down There, better known as Shoot the Piano Player. And they gave Goodis a volume of his own with five of his novels. Good stuff.

I think it was Barry Malzberg who said that David Goodis was where Cornell Woolrich went to die, but I could be wrong.

Some of Fredric Brown's work seems to fit into the noir category nicely. I'm thinking of The Far Cry in particular.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at May 07, 2023 10:37 AM (a/4+U)

178 You've put into words what I feel when I read NaCly's advice every day to smile and be happy and put fear into the kill-joy leftists everywhere. It's great advice. Evil is winning the world, but we don't have to let it win us.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at May 07, 2023 10:30 AM (OX9vb)
---
Evil thinks it is winning, but it's not. We know how it turns out - we win, they lose.

Noir is a poor guide because the horizons are so limited. Not a lot of conversion stories in noir.

But in the here and now, we can make a difference, and win victories. If you visited the prayer thread, you may recall that my youngest daughter went from being a God-hating "trans" kid to dutifully bringing the ashes home to her mother on Ash Wednesday after attending Mass with me.

People who want to see a material victory, or some sort of "FBI raids the Clinton Foundation," headline are delusional. God permits evil to prosper for His own reasons, but He can and does intervene in our lives.

Noir is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 10:38 AM (llXky)

179 I like to have fun with dialog. Now and then I'll have a character say something that, while normal for him or her, would not be something everyday people would say.

"Aha," said Carla. "The plot, much like our Grandma Coniglio's pasta sauce, thickens."

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 10:39 AM (omVj0)

180 Would Lindsey Davis' stories about Marcus Didius Falco, Roman informer, be considered Noir? I think so.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 07, 2023 10:40 AM (hsRrI)

181 The Comanche were defeated by modernity; with the plains buffalo gone, repeater rifles common and comparative ease of access for settlers.

I read that book. It seemed to me that the defeat of the Comanche was simply the result of encroachment by settlers and their eventually overwhelming numbers. The Comanche had the advantage while small unit tactics and terrorism prevailed but once settlements grew to a certain size, it wasn't feasible for the Comanche to mount an effective assault, let alone maintain their territory.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at May 07, 2023 10:40 AM (YRsIm)

182 123 ... "Is Noir partly informed by what Tolkein called the idea of the "Long Defeat"? After all, it's pretty solid Christian doctrine that the world is fallen and sinful. You aren't going to beat evil -- that's the Redeemer's job. All you can do is hang on and not give up your own soul."

I thought Tolkien used 'long defeat' about the elves specifically and their limited time in Middle-Earth, not humanity. Although he may have had that view about the real world.

Posted by: JTB at May 07, 2023 10:41 AM (7EjX1)

183
A man (or woman) creates a business empire, but his or her heirs have no real interest or stake in keeping the business strong. So after a few generations, you get the chaotic corporate atmosphere we see now, where a business like AB hires someone who has NO real interest in the company in order to promote her own political ideology.

_________

See, for example, KFC. Harland Sanders built it into a brand, then sold it to a conglomerate that cut corners so much that Sanders just about disavowed it.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 07, 2023 10:42 AM (MoZTd)

184 if the previous director, worked for the most corrupt bank think the one in mask for dimitrious, why would they go after one of the House of Clinton,

Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 10:43 AM (PXvVL)

185 My reading of the Nero Wolfe novels continues apace. So far every darn one of them is good - to very good.
Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023

***
Are you reading them in publication order or as you come across them? Stout's Wolfe-and-Archie world did not change significantly between 1934 and 1974. Wolfe and the others don't age, for instance, though Stout would refer to events in the outside world. So reading them out of publication order is fine. Though those novels he published with Viking, after WWII, are much better in storytelling, much smoother, than the 1934-1945 novels. And Archie no longer says things like "He *don't* know what he's talking about."

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 10:44 AM (omVj0)

186 Wolfus - old western films and the crazy stunt riding - that stunt riding was child's play for Comanche. And yeah, they struck fear into the hearts of everyone that crossed their paths.

Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023 10:44 AM (7Tb4o)

187 Just finished "The Frontiersmen: A Narrative"
By: Allan W. Eckert
I'd call this lengthy book an excellent account of life at the edge of the eastern colonies of the USA. Beginning when the colony of Virginia extended from the Atlantic to the Mississippi and much was unknown therein, ending after the War of 1812 had concluded. There are many accounts of interactions with the natives, many quite unpleasant, but not always so. A central figure was Tecumseh, being a chief with influence all through many Indian nations.
(continued)

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 07, 2023 10:44 AM (jTmQV)

188 My writing style didn't really get settled until the Man of Destiny series, and since then I've embraced a "cinematic" approach, where I assume that the reader is watching the events as they unfold, and therefore narrative asides, internal thoughts are generally out of bounds. If something needs to be explained, someone explains it and it has to be plausibly short - if a character goes on, another will cut them off.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 10:31 AM (llXky)

A.H., how do you think that fits in the "show vs. tell" idea for writing?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023 10:45 AM (Angsy)

189 A central figure was Tecumseh, being a chief with influence all through many Indian nations.
(continued)
Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 07, 2023 10:44 AM (jTmQV)

Love that book. His one on tecumseh is just as good.

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 10:46 AM (x+aI8)

190 Aha! It is Coffin for Dimitrios! Knew that sounded off.

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 10:48 AM (x+aI8)

191 Yes, that was an unusual, but effective device.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at May 07, 2023 10:13 AM (OX9vb)

It was supposed to be a one-off, not the first book in a very popular series

Posted by: Kindltot at May 07, 2023 10:48 AM (xhaym)

192 Hadrian at 183--

Something that's maybe aggravated by the idea that businesses exist to give people jobs doing what they love? That doing what they love is more important than earning a living keeping things running to serve everybody?

There's a certain dignity in being a willing cog in the wheel to provide for yourself and family, but I have the impression that seems to be frowned on nowadays.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at May 07, 2023 10:49 AM (a/4+U)

193 one was the film the other the book,

most of the events in the story did happen after a fashion,

Posted by: no 6 at May 07, 2023 10:49 AM (PXvVL)

194 I read that book. It seemed to me that the defeat of the Comanche was simply the result of encroachment by settlers and their eventually overwhelming numbers. The Comanche had the advantage while small unit tactics and terrorism prevailed but once settlements grew to a certain size, it wasn't feasible for the Comanche to mount an effective assault, let alone maintain their territory.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at May 07, 2023 10:40 AM (YRsIm)
---
In writing Wall of Men, I learned that until the last couple of centuries, light cavalry was the ultimate "weapons system." Nomadic raiders were unbeatable in their home terrain and therefore could attack outwards at will.

That being said, outside that area, they were far less effective. The Yuan (Mongol) Dynasty was extremely short-lived because nomads make terrible garrison armies. To compensate for this, they ordered all the city walls breached. In theory this left them less capable of rebellion. In practice, it allowed the eventual Ming rebellion to spread unchecked because the Mongols had destroyed their own defenses.

Not surprising that the same would apply in North America.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 10:49 AM (llXky)

195 I've an ebook compendium of Nero. I read the first few out of order due to Horde recommendations - but went back and am reading them by publication date. So far? No one ever acts out of character - no "jump the shark" moments. The only change seems to be Cramer goes from lighting and smoking cigars to chewing on them.

Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023 10:49 AM (7Tb4o)

196 his stand alone novels such as Bomber.

-
One of my favorite novels. I read an introduction to a later edition by Deighton. He said many interesting things including that this was probably the first novel composed on a word processor. A friend had access to a machine used to write technical manuals and he gave one to Deighton. He also discusses people he met in researching life in Nazi Germany.

I see this as rather a War and Peace of WWII. Instead of 8 years of the broad sweep of Russia, it's 24 hours of the broad sweep of England and Nazi Germany. There are good guys and bad guys on each side.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 07, 2023 10:50 AM (FVME7)

197 A major event of geological importance is widely told in the book, that the New Madrid earthquake. I was under the impression that this was a single event, but this book says that there were 3 and possibly 4 separate 'quakes that were weeks apart, the strongest one being the last. The other thing I noted was that each 'quake was of very long duration, sometimes hours long. Having been thru a couple of 'quakes (measured in seconds), I can't imagine the terror. These transformed the geography, making rivers change course, lakes appear where there were none before and dry land where there had been a lake.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 07, 2023 10:50 AM (jTmQV)

198 The Sparrow ... wow !!! excellent read

Posted by: Qmark

I'm about to start the sequel, "Children of God."

Mar Doria Russell also has several highly regarded books about about a couple of gentlemen who participated in the Gungight At The OK Corral:

"With her most recent novels, Doc and Epitaph, Russell has redefined two towering figures of the American West: the lawman Wyatt Earp and the dental surgeon Doc Holliday."

Posted by: Sharkman at May 07, 2023 10:52 AM (NK7zI)

199 Get Trump: The Threat to Civil Liberties, Due Process, and Our Constitutional Rule of Law by Alan Dershowitz.

Link.

https://amzn.to/3LGowTR

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 07, 2023 10:54 AM (FVME7)

200 No one ever acts out of character - no "jump the shark" moments. The only change seems to be Cramer goes from lighting and smoking cigars to chewing on them.
Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023

***
Stout had enormous literary skill. HIs first six novels were literary tales. Then he himself realized he was a storyteller first and foremost, and jumped into mystery fiction. His skill is amazing when you realize, for example, that Archie talks the same way he narrates the stories. After all, he is supposed to be writing the book you're reading. And the tone and pacing is the same as the way he is shown to talk.

Wolfe has been called "a superman who talks like a superman," yet he does not always use the abstruse or learned word for something if the simpler English will do.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 10:55 AM (omVj0)

201 A.H., how do you think that fits in the "show vs. tell" idea for writing?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023 10:45 AM (Angsy)
---
My freshman writing prof pushed for "telling details," and I followed that for a long time. The one thing I didn't really have figured out was perspective. Waugh showed me how to write fast and clever dialog, and the next thing was how much to show the reader.

So I guess it's a mix. I try to "show" everything - I think of it as novelizing a movie. That way I don't have to tell as much.

One other point - use distinct voices. Your characters should have verbal tics, little catch phrases that they use, which is both realistic and it is much more obvious who is saying what.

One of my favorite characters in Man of Destiny is Jermah Macro because he is just a world-class jerk. He insults everyone, and is sort of my way of poking fun at myself because he attacks all the traits of the other characters.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 10:55 AM (llXky)

202 A.H. Lloyd, I really like the cinematic approach. Which one of your books should I read first?

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 07, 2023 10:58 AM (Y+l9t)

203 Comanche could ride into a party of armed opponents - while settler-militia were reloading clumsy blackpowder firearms - and simply rout them with masterful archery. Repeater rifles topped comanche horsemanship.

Typing on my kindle paperwhite* is @&$?!

Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023 10:58 AM (7Tb4o)

204 Some of the best Nero Wolfes are Murder by the Book, Might As Well Be Dead, and the Zeck trilogy, where Wolfe takes on his version of Prof. Moriarty.

When Archie finally sees Zeck in person, he describes him in part: "Somebody had made a mistake and given him shark's eyes. They were not quite like shark's eyes because Arnold Zeck had been using them to see with for fifty years, and that had had an effect."

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 10:59 AM (omVj0)

205 187 ... "Just finished "The Frontiersmen: A Narrative"
By: Allan W. Eckert"

gourmand,
The Allan W. Eckert books are unofficial required reading for the traditional muzzleloader folks. Well worth the time. Glad you enjoyed it.

Posted by: JTB at May 07, 2023 10:59 AM (7EjX1)

206 I want to expand on that a bit - nasty characters. I had so much fun writing Jermah Macro. Yes, Man of Destiny is how "Star Wars" should have been, which means he's also able to pick apart the characters.

In Vampires of Michigan I have a lot of fun with the various vampires sniping at each other verbally. I mean, they've known each other for centuries, so why not be catty?

Insults tell you what the characters think about each other in a very clear way, and also about some of their tics that may not be obvious in the text. It also makes it easy to tell who is saying what. Consider this unattributed dialog from Bored of the Rings:

"Flit."
"Wart."

I bet everyone here knows who said what about whom.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 11:00 AM (llXky)

207 Both the Left and Right seem perfectly keen on having a strong hand at the helm of their political leadership. Unfortunately, the dirty little secret about strong men is that they don't always plan for a future *without* their leadership.

In many ways, this too is the story of the Tyrant Trump.

/Mostly joking since I was lobbying for him to create from Day One a political organization to succeed him and, when it was clear that they'd stolen the election, for him to go Full Pinochet

This is true even in industry. A man (or woman) creates a business empire, but his or her heirs have no real interest or stake in keeping the business strong.

Indeed, Perfessor. I remember learning a great lesson reading "The One Minute Manager" (by Ken Blanchard and Spencer Johnson) back in the day: the best & most effective managers train and groom (ugh, the Left destroys another word) subordinates who can step in and do the manager's job as necessary and/or in the future.

/Apologies for injecting politics into The Book Thread, and thank you for your efforts!

Posted by: ShainS at May 07, 2023 11:01 AM (2oHWb)

208 Gref: Thanks for the recommendation. I loved "Drive Like Hell" (and the movie) and thanks to Thrift Books, "The Limit" will be here next week.

Posted by: who knew at May 07, 2023 11:03 AM (4I7VG)

209 In Vampires of Michigan I have a lot of fun with the various vampires sniping at each other verbally. I mean, they've known each other for centuries, so why not be catty?

Insults tell you what the characters think about each other in a very clear way, and also about some of their tics that may not be obvious in the text. . . .

***
Spike vs. Angel in the Buffy and Angel TV series: Spike refers to Angel, whom he has known for more than a century, as "Captain Forehead"; and when Spike is in a wheelchair (and Angel has lost his soul for a time), he tells Spike, "I'd like to bring you along. It would be nice to always have a good parking space."

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:03 AM (omVj0)

210 I like spy novels so I'll take suggestions.
Posted by: Ciampino -- Kitty update https://is.gd/WQ5JcT at May 07, 2023

Try the David Audley series by Anthony Price. 19 books (best to read in order). Audley and his staff work as "researchers" in the UK Ministry of Defense. They use the cover of historical research and excavation.

The books were written from 1970-90s, so the antagonists are usually the Soviets (although there are one or two when the CIA and MoD are at cross-purposes).

The first is "The Labyrinth Makers," in which a plane that was presumed lost in the North Sea in WWII is found when a UK lake is drained No one was on board except the pilot. The Soviets turn up at the funeral...

I also second the recommendation of the Matt Helm series.

Posted by: Wethal at May 07, 2023 11:03 AM (NufIr)

211 A.H. Lloyd, I really like the cinematic approach. Which one of your books should I read first?

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 07, 2023 10:58 AM (Y+l9t)
---
I guess it depends on what genres you like. Man of Destiny is space opera, Vampires of Michigan is a wild ride of sex and violence with some philosophy mixed in.

I actually did a revision of Battle Officer Wolf to clean up its prose and bring it more into line with my later style, but only in the ebook. That's sci-fi horror.

Scorpion's Pass is in the style of Jane Austen, and while it's not as wordy as she is, it's not quite like the others.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 11:04 AM (llXky)

212 Think I'll try Vampires of Michigan.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 07, 2023 11:05 AM (Y+l9t)

213 With dialogue I've settled into using nothing but 'said' or dialogue exchanges alone. I intro with
Bob said, "Phoo."
Pete looked at him.
"Yes, of course Phoo."
"And Phoo again."
"So it would seem."
The two both gazed at the popcorn ceiling, smelling the last of the joint.
Etc.

Posted by: LenNeal at May 07, 2023 11:06 AM (43xH1)

214 You do that well. My only concern is that in a *long* exchange with two people, if there are no tags or clues at all, a reader may get lost. Having A address B by name will let us know A is speaking.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 10:23 AM (omVj0)

Long exchanges get exhausting, and can be broken up by either pauses or action. (or inaction)

The whir of the AC cycling on did not cause either man to react. The smoke from the cigarette crushed in the ashtray trickled upwards to be caught by the slight draft. Finally Bill shifted in his seat. "I can do fifteen," he offered as a concession.
"I needed twenty, Bill."

. . . and then off again to the dialogue

Posted by: Kindltot at May 07, 2023 11:06 AM (xhaym)

215 187 ... "Just finished "The Frontiersmen: A Narrative"
By: Allan W. Eckert"

I have that one on deck. I read it years ago, and loved it. I want to see if being 29 makes a difference.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, Trailer Trash Adjacent at May 07, 2023 11:07 AM (T/Lqj)

216 Think I'll try Vampires of Michigan.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 07, 2023 11:05 AM (Y+l9t)
---
Cool! C.N. liked it, and she's not normally into vampire stuff. One of my squadron mates who reads all my stuff said that it was my best writing to that point, my novelistic style was coming into its own, etc.

So naturally I turned to non-fiction. Go figure.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 11:07 AM (llXky)

217 I truly agree that if you do dialog right, you don't need very many tags or "he said" items. My view is distinctly cinematic and visual overall. It's fun, though, to have something that appeals to another, less-used sense -- the texture of something to your fingertips, the smell of a room, or the taste of a drink or a meal. We are used to being shown how something looks and sounds to the characters, but not so much the others.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:07 AM (omVj0)

218 Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 10:55 AM (llXky)

Thanks. I'm still not sure whether I'm showing or telling.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023 11:07 AM (Angsy)

219 I will have to read more from Allan W. Eckert.
The last book filled in a lot of voids in my knowledge of the way the War of 1812 unfolded in the north, along the present day Canadian border. My general knowledge encompasses Gen. Jackson and the Battle for New Orleans as well as the burning of Washington DC.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 07, 2023 11:09 AM (jTmQV)

220 Always thought Elmore Leonard and Gregory McDonald did terrific dialogue. Ditto Ed McBain/Evan Hunter.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at May 07, 2023 11:09 AM (a/4+U)

221 Wolfus. I'm very late comer to the Rex Stout books. I guess it's a good thing since I probably appreciate his skill at writing more than I would've ...thirty years ago. You know who else I ignored? Ellery Queen. .... lol!

Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023 11:10 AM (7Tb4o)

222 Insults can be affectionate.

Carla: "Now tell me you knew what she was going to say, and I'll get up here and do a table dance for the bartender."

Her brother: "Don't do that. They'll throw us out before we get our food."

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:10 AM (omVj0)

223 Learned recently Jack Vance wrote some Ellery Queen books.

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 11:11 AM (x+aI8)

224 Insults can be affectionate.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:10 AM (omVj0)
---
Absolutely, and having them shift from that to truly visceral is also a neat way to approach things.

Again, Macro is usually jovial, but when he gets pissed, he goes for the throat - which also lets you know that he has a darker, more ruthless side without having to actually show him doing it.

Dialog: it tells you things!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 11:13 AM (llXky)

225 Wolfus. I'm very late comer to the Rex Stout books. I guess it's a good thing since I probably appreciate his skill at writing more than I would've ...thirty years ago. You know who else I ignored? Ellery Queen. .... lol!
Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023

***
Probably. But I loved the Wolfe tales when I was 13 and older, and discovered EQ when I was not quite 14. When I come back to them now, especially the Wolfes, I appreciate the style and little in-jokes. In one novel, for instance, Archie refers to a big-time magazine which clearly is modeled on Time. Archie refers to the owner as "Mr. Tite." This is a play on Henry *Luce*, who founded Time -- something I did not know at age 14.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:13 AM (omVj0)

226 I read a book some years ago that hypothesized that the fall of the American Indian arose from their success. For centuries, if not millenia, they had been stone age hunter gatherers but once they had access to the horses introduced by Europeans, they became a horse warrior culture. Once that happened and the Europeans became the targets of their raids, the Europeans simply could not abide them and their fall was fated.

It makes me wonder about the rise of BLM, CRT, and general street crime in which the view is that such is allowed because of past history. Now we have insane and impossible demands for reparations and I wonder if we will have another Battle of Wounded Knee.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 07, 2023 11:13 AM (FVME7)

227 "So naturally I turned to non-fiction. Go figure."

It's like the guy that after he bowled a 300 game quit and took up golf.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at May 07, 2023 11:13 AM (JVCkA)

228 Spy novels?

I Am Pilgrim.

Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023 11:13 AM (7Tb4o)

229 I also separate all dialogue. If somebody is speaking, it's separated from exposition or description. I no longer bury spoken words in blocks of text.
The Curzio Malaparte translation did that. That guy's stuff is so messy, so baroque, so allusional, it created a phobia about comprehension and now I try to make the writing structure as simple as possible.

Posted by: LenNeal at May 07, 2023 11:16 AM (43xH1)

230 Learned recently Jack Vance wrote some Ellery Queen books.
Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023

***
I don't think he wrote any featuring Ellery and his father. Those "mainstream" Ellerys which were ghost-written were done by SF writers Avram Davidson and Theodore Sturgeon. There were non-Ellery paperbacks, not as high quality as mysteries, issued under the Queen name in the late '50s to the mid-'60s, and I think I'd read Vance wrote at least one of those.

Funny how Dannay and Lee, the EQ cousins, gravitated to SF writers to ghost their novels during Lee's writer's block period.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:16 AM (omVj0)

231 I Am Pilgrim.
Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023 11:13 AM (7Tb4o)

Oh, that one was good! If I didn't have such a long to-be-read list, I would read that one again.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at May 07, 2023 11:17 AM (OX9vb)

232 We sent our grand nephew who just turned 4 years old a copy of "Dinotopia" on the theory that all 4 year old boys like dinosaurs. The book is a hit and has apparently increased required reading time with his folks. And his one year old brother thinks the dust jacket is the best toy in the world.

Posted by: JTB at May 07, 2023 11:17 AM (7EjX1)

233 It's like the guy that after he bowled a 300 game quit and took up golf.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at May 07, 2023 11:13 AM (JVCkA)
---
Not really, though. I didn't decide to specifically write a non-fiction book, it was just the Spanish Civil War was really interesting to me and I started seeing parallels in the US. Plus, the books on it are generally terrible.

Now add in a few weeks of bed rest after myocarditis almost killed me that I filled with reading up on it, and there you are. And then China because reasons or something.

Kind of sick of China. Not gonna lie. Still interested in Spain though, perhaps because of the break.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 11:17 AM (llXky)

234 Zzzzzzz-- *snort* huh?

Late to the party!

My big read this week is Michael Schulman's "Oscar Wars: A History of Hollywood in Gold, Sweat, and Tears", a deliciously gossipy telling of different eras of Oscar award shows and all the skullduggery in the background.

When told Harvey Weinstein claimed to be "passionate about film", director Merchant Ivory quipped "He's passionate about films in the same way a dog is passionate about meat."

Posted by: All Hail Eris at May 07, 2023 11:18 AM (48V7z)

235 I should run out to Dollar Tree for a few things . . . but this discussion is much more entertaining. Hell, I can hit DT anytime. Carry on.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:19 AM (omVj0)

236 California's Reparations Task Force Votes in Favor of $800 Billion Plan

https://bit.ly/429LGJ6

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 07, 2023 11:21 AM (FVME7)

237 Always thought Elmore Leonard and Gregory McDonald did terrific dialogue. Ditto Ed McBain/Evan Hunter.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at May 07, 2023

***
I agree -- with the caveat that Leonard, once he moved to crime stories, reproduced the way the criminals and street people spoke so exactly that I sometimes had trouble understanding what they were talking about. (His Westerns are great.)

Don't forget John D. MacDonald and his dialog. There was a reason he was called the John O'Hara of the crime story.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:22 AM (omVj0)

238 Vance wrote A room to die and The Four Johns and The Madman Theory for Queen series. Fwiw

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 11:23 AM (x+aI8)

239 216 Think I'll try Vampires of Michigan.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 07, 2023 11:05 AM (Y+l9t)
---
Cool! C.N. liked it, and she's not normally into vampire stuff. One of my squadron mates who reads all my stuff said that it was my best writing to that point, my novelistic style was coming into its own, etc.

So naturally I turned to non-fiction. Go figure.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author

Acquired! Nice of you to have a ready link.💃

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 07, 2023 11:23 AM (Y+l9t)

240 "I'm always a big fan of promoting books for middle-school boys. Anything that get them interested in reading is a plus."
--------
I was an avid reader as a youth.

I wrote a book about a young man's adventures in the American, pre-revolution frontier, including being adopted by Native Americans. Well I didn't actually write it down, I just imagined it while driving a truck over the road for two years. I even did some research. It would have been an editors nightmare had I written it down.

Posted by: Javems at May 07, 2023 11:24 AM (AmoqO)

241 The book thread is always a potential danger to my time (and often my budget). The references to Nero Wolfe reminded me I have most of his books but haven't read them for a while. Maybe I should try to read one each week. They are not long and are fast-paced so it should be possible. And they would make a good contrast with my usual history, poetry, and literary reading.

Posted by: JTB at May 07, 2023 11:24 AM (7EjX1)

242 It makes me wonder about the rise of BLM, CRT, and general street crime in which the view is that such is allowed because of past history. Now we have insane and impossible demands for reparations and I wonder if we will have another Battle of Wounded Knee.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 07, 2023 11:13 AM (FVME7)
---
To the left, history is important only when it is useful. BLM and the rest are being exploited to undermine public order, setting the scene for revolution.

This was why I was impelled to write about Spain in the 1930s. The same exact arguments about "the system" causing crime, the need for Anarchist collectives, even ANTIFA all goes back to Spain.

Another parallel: using the vaxx and gender/trans issues to purge the military. There's now a massive "reserve army" of recently discharged soldiers whose careers were unjustly cut short.

Just like in Spain.

A key difference is that Spain's military hadn't suffered a recent humiliating defeat, which is typically a requirement for revolution. We're 0-2. Make of that what you will.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 11:24 AM (llXky)

243 Luce. He figured big in the KMT pro-China lobby. I just saw a thick hardcover biography of his wife at the local 'friends of the library' book sale... didn't pick it up.

Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023 11:24 AM (7Tb4o)

244 I've been reading a lot of YA for my granddaughter. I like to read them first and then we discuss them when she's done with them. Mostly historical fiction because her tastes generally run to fantasy and sci-fi, so I'm trying to keep her from pigeonholing herself in her reading.
Somebody here recommended the BetsyTacey series for kids. I looked into getting some used but the prices were kind of high, and I didn't know if my 6 yo granddaughter would like them. At a garage sale I snagged a set of 6 for $3.00 Excited to start reading them with her.

Posted by: TecumsehTea-not a resident troll at May 07, 2023 11:24 AM (ebhEj)

245 Vance wrote A room to die and The Four Johns and The Madman Theory for Queen series. Fwiw
Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023

***
That's what I thought -- those were issued under the EQ name, but did not feature Ellery and his father, and the EQ cousins really had nothing to do with them.

Again, though, it's interesting that science-fiction writers are connected so often with the EQ stories.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:25 AM (omVj0)

246 After what is widely considered to be the worst opening number in Oscar history, the "flamboyant" Alan Carr's disneyesque Snow White dance number, costar Rob Lowe told his ingenue dance partner "If I were you, I would get out of town tonight, because there's blood in the water and the sharks are circling. There are people who are going to take advantage of you, and I don't want to see that happen."
"Never trust a man in a caftan", Lowe told her.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at May 07, 2023 11:26 AM (48V7z)

247 Something I read recently had so much dialog I got bored. It was very witty but just went on and on and didn't advance the story. Can't remember which book though.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 07, 2023 11:26 AM (Y+l9t)

248 As a palate cleanser from the darkness of noir I'd like to suggest the Anty Boisjoly mystery series by PJ Fitzsimmons. The sixth volume just came out yesterday. As I've mentioned here before, they are homages to Wodehouse and the protagonist, Anty, is what Bertie Wooster would be like if he were smart.

The mystery plots are rather silly, but that's not why I read them. They're just a few hours of unadulterated entertainment. Available on Kindle Unlimited and reasonably priced ($2.99) if you're not a member.

Posted by: Art Rondelet of Malmsey at May 07, 2023 11:26 AM (fTtFy)

249 I also separate all dialogue. If somebody is speaking, it's separated from exposition or description. I no longer bury spoken words in blocks of text.
The Curzio Malaparte translation did that. That guy's stuff is so messy, so baroque, so allusional, it created a phobia about comprehension and now I try to make the writing structure as simple as possible.

Posted by: LenNeal at May 07, 2023 11:16 AM (43xH1)

(looks at own writing)

Oops.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023 11:27 AM (Angsy)

250 Luce. He figured big in the KMT pro-China lobby. I just saw a thick hardcover biography of his wife at the local 'friends of the library' book sale... didn't pick it up.
Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023

***
There is a Dorothy Parker anecdote involving Clare Boothe Luce. At a party, Clare and Dottie arrived at a door simultaneously. Clare is supposed to have said, "Age before beauty," and waved Dottie ahead.

Dottie: "Pearls before swine," and she marched in ahead of Clare.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:27 AM (omVj0)

251 Earlier in the week I finished "Proof of Heaven" by Dr. Eben Alexander.
It was an enjoyable read, with lots of accounts of his mysterious recovery from an illness and his time while in a coma. I'm not sure his account of the near death experience is universal or peculiar to him alone. It made a believer out of him, you can say that.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 07, 2023 11:28 AM (jTmQV)

252 Wolfus,

John D. MacDonald was terrific -- haven't read all of his stuff, but I've yet to read one that I didn't like. The Travis McGee books are golden, but I enjoy the stand-alones even more. (Another writer who deserves Library of America volumes)

Posted by: Just Some Guy at May 07, 2023 11:29 AM (a/4+U)

253 Wolfus,
I haven't read any of the Man from UNCLE books since the 60s but remember them fondly. Any suggestion on one or two to start looking for at the used book store?

Posted by: JTB at May 07, 2023 11:30 AM (7EjX1)

254 During the cold war Herodotus & Thucydides with Greek History: Persia then Athens vs Sparta was very enlightening for current times. Roman history didn't give me that feeling.

Now: unleash the proscriptions. Fall of the republic has parallels everyday.

Posted by: InspiredHistoryMike at May 07, 2023 11:30 AM (DWTz2)

255 Maybe I'll post up the Malaparte book up somewhere. The first story has never been translated to English except by me, the second one is so difficult the other existing translations are garbage. Nobody wanted to put in the effort; an effort not helped by the subject material: a series of asinine conversations among Italian Fascists at a country club. The characters are loathsome and it made that story doubly difficult.
Malaparte does convincingly allege Rommel lost North Africa due to Anglophile players in Italian Royalty, who muddled the supply lines. Otherwise the translation was a hideous chore.

Posted by: LenNeal at May 07, 2023 11:30 AM (43xH1)

256 Again re John D. MacDonald --

If you like poetry, dig up a poem by Donald Justice called 'The Tourist from Syracuse'. It takes a bit of character description from one of MacDonald's books (April Evil, if memory serves) and spins it into a nice chilling poem. Good stuff.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at May 07, 2023 11:31 AM (a/4+U)

257 The references to Nero Wolfe reminded me I have most of his books but haven't read them for a while. Maybe I should try to read one each week. They are not long and are fast-paced so it should be possible. And they would make a good contrast with my usual history, poetry, and literary reading.
Posted by: JTB at May 07, 2023

***
Stout also wrote Wolfe and Archie novelettes. Each is about 20K words. You can find them in collections of three like Trouble in Triplicate or in the omnibus volumes together with two of the novels. The short tales had some of his best plotting -- "The Gun With Wings," "Disguise for Murder," and "Die Like a Dog" (in which no dogs die or are even hurt, okay, animal lovers?).

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:32 AM (omVj0)

258 Again, though, it's interesting that science-fiction writers are connected so often with the EQ stories.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:25 AM (omVj0)

True. Idk why. But Vance wrote for money. And in a way considered himself a craftsman and not "artist". I mean, he obv thought v highly of his own abilities justifiably so....

He was very rightist in world-view but also not in any way a "conservative" or "libertarian". I'm very sympathetic to his vibe.

Vance also seems outside the whole Cordwainer Smith CIA psy-op SF stream.

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 11:32 AM (x+aI8)

259 Lovejoy is also a good antidote to cultural rot and darkness.

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 11:34 AM (x+aI8)

260 Wolfus,
I haven't read any of the Man from UNCLE books since the 60s but remember them fondly. Any suggestion on one or two to start looking for at the used book store?
Posted by: JTB at May 07, 2023

***
The first, {i]The Thousand Coffins Affair, is rather James Bond-ian and fun. But the series really took off with David McDaniel, who was a fan of the show and an SF writer. Look for his Dagger Affair, Vampire Affair, and Monster Wheel Affair, as well as Rainbow Affair. And his Utopia Affair, in which their boss Waverly has to take a vacation and Solo takes the big chair to run U.N.C.L.E. North America, should have been a two-part episode of the show.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:36 AM (omVj0)

261 Also, tracking says WALLS OF MEN was delivered to my office yesterday, when the office is closed. This is a peeve about tracking. It's a PIA and carriers constantly mark items as delivered when they're not.
So I'll get it Monday.
Looking forward to it.

Posted by: LenNeal at May 07, 2023 11:37 AM (43xH1)

262 To follow up on my earlier comment about Celtic folk tales, I highly recommend Patrick Ball's album Storyteller. He doesn't seem to do many US appearances these days but if you ever get the chance to see him perform live, do it.

Posted by: Oddbob at May 07, 2023 11:37 AM (nfrXX)

263 Kind of sick of China. Not gonna lie. Still interested in Spain though, perhaps because of the break.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 11:17 AM (llXky)

Don't worry. You'll be interested in China again in about an hour.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023 11:39 AM (Angsy)

264 Wolfus,

John D. MacDonald was terrific -- haven't read all of his stuff, but I've yet to read one that I didn't like. The Travis McGee books are golden, but I enjoy the stand-alones even more. (Another writer who deserves Library of America volumes)
Posted by: Just Some Guy at May 07, 2023

***
Same here. He even wrote three SF/fantasy novels. The Girl, the Gold Watch, and Everything is a fun romp. Ballroom of the Skies foreshadows a lot of things about our current world. I don't recall much of his Wine of the Dreamers, but I doubt that his craftsmanship failed him.

He said he gave up on SF because the work he had to put in to develop plausible worlds was out of proportion for what the magazines paid then. For less effort with crime stories set in our world, he could get the same money.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:40 AM (omVj0)

265 I've not even read the first sixty percent of today's book thread and need to be on to chores and shopping :/

And still reading non-fiction book 'the history of the russian civil wars, 1916-1926,' of which has changed how I think of the 'Red' series of events 1890-1930.

Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023 11:41 AM (7Tb4o)

266 First off "The History of Civilization" series was monumental. I am looking at a set on my bookshelf right now. Parts of it were serialized in the SF Chronicle back in the '70s (when it wasn't complete propaganda) and where I caught on to it. I think I have two complete sets.

Other sorta-history that affected my life back in the day: Simon Schama's 'Citizens', a fun and quick history of the French Revolution. John Malcolm Brinnin's "The Sway of the Grand Saloon", a very selective but very readable history of the North Atlantic liner era.

Current reading: Kathy Valentine's 'All I Ever Wanted'.

Posted by: JEM at May 07, 2023 11:41 AM (8erNz)

267 Also, tracking says WALLS OF MEN was delivered to my office yesterday, when the office is closed. This is a peeve about tracking. It's a PIA and carriers constantly mark items as delivered when they're not.
So I'll get it Monday.
Looking forward to it.

Posted by: LenNeal at May 07, 2023 11:37 AM (43xH1)
---
Cool! I hope you enjoy it.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 11:43 AM (llXky)

268 269 ... Wolfus,

Thanks for the recommendations about the Man From UNCLE books. It will be interesting to see how I like them since I last read the books. If nothing else, they will be a blast from the past.

Posted by: JTB at May 07, 2023 11:44 AM (7EjX1)

269 My home town public library, which Mom would walk me to on a weekly basis, had a room assigned to youth books. It was dedicated to the son of a library benefactor, killed in France in the Great War at a very early age. Brainard Room.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at May 07, 2023 11:44 AM (lz5hY)

270 I read C.M. Kornbluth’s Syndic this week. A very early example of the libertarian novel. Monetary problems have destroyed civilization worldwide and the only functional remnants of humanity are run by the mafia.

The really interesting parts are where the residents of civilization travel to the outlander and cannot comprehend how bad things really are there because the complete restoration of barbarism confuses and frightens them.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at May 07, 2023 11:45 AM (olroh)

271 It ain't hoarding if it's books.

Posted by: Diogenes at May 07, 2023 11:46 AM (anj39)

272 Fun site: bookscans, a huuuuuge archive of paperback book covers. If you haven't visited, do so! Lots of cool stuff.

Posted by: LenNeal at May 07, 2023 11:47 AM (43xH1)

273 The Ace Man From U.N.C.L.E. novel series was the longest-running tie-in series to a TV show in history, until Star Trek. There were 23 original novels, extending from 1965 to about 1970 or '71, after the show was gone. They were not always consistent with the show's setup, though the editor, Terry Carr, tried to make them consistent with each other. SF writers like David McDaniel and friends of his, and crime writers like Michael Avallone and Peter Leslie, kept the books lively and interesting, and often tried to show how the international organization would have really worked.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:48 AM (omVj0)

274 Thanks for the recommendations about the Man From UNCLE books. It will be interesting to see how I like them since I last read the books. If nothing else, they will be a blast from the past.
Posted by: JTB at May 07, 2023

***
The McDaniels in particular are well written; he was a clever writer, and might have gone on to greater things if he hadn't died in a household accident 50 years ago. He gave the stories lively action, plausible SF-oriented threats, in-jokes, and funny dialog. When I reread one of the 23 novels now, it's usually one of his.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:51 AM (omVj0)

275 Just finished David Baldacci's Long Shadows.
Classic Baldacci. Great character development and plot twists. Fully recommend!

Posted by: Diogenes at May 07, 2023 11:53 AM (anj39)

276 It's like the guy that after he bowled a 300 game quit and took up golf.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse

Hell, I could golf a 300 game.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 07, 2023 11:53 AM (FVME7)

277 272 Front covers from paperback books. First trip to Vietnam, somebody's relative or friend started sending paperbacks, boxes of them, sans the cover, removed to prevent resale. I guess the sender was in some distribution business. Pretty soon, we had a few shelves in our hooch, made from wooden ordnance boxes. Our own library!

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at May 07, 2023 11:54 AM (lz5hY)

278 It's like the guy that after he bowled a 300 game quit and took up golf.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse

Hell, I could golf a 300 game.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?

LOL !!!

Posted by: JT at May 07, 2023 11:56 AM (T4tVD)

279 Fun site: bookscans, a huuuuuge archive of paperback book covers. If you haven't visited, do so! Lots of cool stuff.
Posted by: LenNeal at May 07, 2023

***
I'll bet they have a lot of examples of Robert McGinnis's work. McGinnis was a superb artist. You've seen his work on the posters for the Bond movies Thunderball and You Only Live Twice, maybe more.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:56 AM (omVj0)

280 The Ace Man From U.N.C.L.E. novel series was the longest-running tie-in series to a TV show in history, until Star Trek.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 11:48 AM (omVj0)
---
In middle school I read some of the Star Trek books in the 1980s. They were okay, but I found myself much more interested in the Bantam War Books, which coincidentally I've been re-reading as nightstand books.

Very different perspective as a military retiree.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 11:56 AM (llXky)

281 It ain't hoarding if it's books.

Definitely hoarding adjacent. I happened to be driving through St. Louis on Friday, so stopped into the annual Greater St. Louis Book Sale. Just to browse around. Came out with more books than I planned on and less than I could have.

Better grab that Latin dictionary. It’s only two dollars and in great shape! An industry/community cookbook from 1960s California wine country? I definitely need that!

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at May 07, 2023 11:57 AM (olroh)

282 Front covers sold a lot of books.

I wonder what the equivalent for an e-book would be? Or if there is one?

I still remember seeing an Akers cover of a Dray Prescott book in a used bookstore as a kid and just being ovetwhelmed at the coolness of the giant animal head mask the soldier/warrior was wearing.

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 11:57 AM (x+aI8)

283 23 Just finished Adrian Tchaikovsky's "Final Architecture" trilogy…

Shark man, I’ve read the first two, and 2 was even better than 1! I have high hopes for the conclusion.

Posted by: Best Thief in Lankhmar at May 07, 2023 11:57 AM (64rer)

284 Time is running short, so thanks again Perfesser!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 12:00 PM (llXky)

285 Better grab that Latin dictionary. It’s only two dollars and in great shape! An industry/community cookbook from 1960s California wine country? I definitely need that!
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at May 07, 2023 11:57 AM (olroh)

Dang!!!
You scored a Latin Dictionary!!??
For $2 bucks!!!???
I am SOOOOOO jealous.

Posted by: Diogenes at May 07, 2023 12:00 PM (anj39)

286 The saddest part of Sunday morning is here again. The end of the book thread. Thanks, Perfessor.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at May 07, 2023 12:01 PM (Angsy)

287 The Queen Mary's doll house library.

It's probably already been said. This is a library for short stories...

Posted by: Diogenes at May 07, 2023 12:02 PM (anj39)

288 285 In hoc signo vinces. Or, have a Pall Mall for that rich tobacco taste.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at May 07, 2023 12:02 PM (lz5hY)

289 Yes. Thanks Perfesser! Many thanks. Great stuff.

Posted by: Thesokorus at May 07, 2023 12:06 PM (x+aI8)

290 Thanks for the thread, Perfessor.

Have a good one, gang.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at May 07, 2023 12:07 PM (a/4+U)

291 See, for example, KFC. Harland Sanders built it into a brand, then sold it to a conglomerate that cut corners so much that Sanders just about disavowed it.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 07, 2023 10:42 AM (MoZTd)

It is also a question of who the customer is. With the concept of "Stakeholder" the company stops providing goods and services to the consumer, and begins offering the consumers and their needs to the groups that fund the company

Posted by: Kindltot at May 07, 2023 12:09 PM (xhaym)

292 Just ducking in to put in a good word for the Space Station Noir series (speaking of noir). It's kind of like Sam Spade with an alien sidekick partner, investigating what turns into a massive conspiracy over the course of five books.

And it's hilarious. Not that there aren't dark sides to it - there are - but the characters are fantastic and it's really funny overall. Available on KU and highly recommended.

Posted by: DrAlice at May 07, 2023 12:10 PM (8MIs2)

293 Journey Into Fear, for instance, features an English engineer who is in the wrong place and time, and the Germans take an unhealthy interest in him.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:35 AM (omVj0)

Sounds like he picked that up from John Buchan, whose recurring protagonist was a South African mining engineer who fought in WWI.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 07, 2023 12:15 PM (tkR6S)

294 Journey Into Fear, for instance, features an English engineer who is in the wrong place and time, and the Germans take an unhealthy interest in him.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 09:35 AM (omVj0)

Sounds like he picked that up from John Buchan, whose recurring protagonist was a South African mining engineer who fought in WWI.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 07, 2023

***
Possibly. But Ambler's hero in that novel is a standalone, not part of a series like Buchan's Richard Hannay.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 07, 2023 12:17 PM (omVj0)

295 I've been reading a lot of YA for my granddaughter.

-
I might recommend Revolution by Jennifer Donnelly. My daughter loved it when she was 13 /14. Difficult to describe in only a few words because it is many things. A troubled upper class girl going to a private school in NYC takes a sabbatical to go with her Nobel prize winning (but jerk) father to Paris to research a term paper on one of her favorite guitarists* and, while doing so, becomes involved with the French Revolution. The reason she is troubled is not revealed until the end and the depiction of the Revolution is not how beautiful it all was that a dictatorship of the proletariat was created. It speaks to many of the issues of today. One word of warning. If I recall correctly, the book begins with her a bunch of her elite classmates getting high before school. That's not what this book is about and does not present drinking and drugs in a good light.

*Although the book never expressly says so, I think the guitarist is based on French /Spanish guitarist Fernando Sor.

https://amzn.to/417U3DO

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 07, 2023 12:18 PM (FVME7)

296
Kind of sick of China. Not gonna lie. Still interested in Spain though, perhaps because of the break.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 07, 2023 11:17 AM (llXky)

You know what has been neglected? Spain's rump of an overseas empire, the Span-Am war, and the "generation of '98.
Huge turmoil in Spain and setting the stage for the coups that followed for the next 40 years.
The only English works on the subject are from the American side of the war, however it is considered transformational for arts and politics in Spain,

Posted by: Kindltot at May 07, 2023 12:18 PM (xhaym)

297 As well as the redirection of the army and navy against Northern Africa to kind of keep it busy. "Lots of battles, lots of medals, lots of commendation, no territory captured"

Posted by: Kindltot at May 07, 2023 12:25 PM (xhaym)

298 I met two code talkers who were nursing home residents when I lived in Farmington, NM. They wore the honors from their service in the Marine Corps very proudly.

Posted by: huerfano at May 07, 2023 12:38 PM (uE10U)

299 Comanche could ride into a party of armed opponents - while settler-militia were reloading clumsy blackpowder firearms - and simply rout them with masterful archery. Repeater rifles topped comanche horsemanship.

Typing on my kindle paperwhite* is @&$?!
Posted by: 13times at May 07, 2023 10:58 AM (7Tb4o)

Cannon, loaded with grapeshot, might have been useful to the settlers.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 07, 2023 12:39 PM (tkR6S)

300 Howard Stern Whines Black Players Ignore Him When He Sits Courtside at NBA Games

-
Poor baby!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 07, 2023 12:43 PM (FVME7)

301 The early church was fascinating. Church fathers like Athanasius were clinging to a focus on the Bible as the Word of God and center of all truth, but some would argue that the church lost that focus when it became accepted by the Roman Empire in the 4th century and hence politicized.

Posted by: Norrin Radd at May 07, 2023 12:50 PM (kQMUu)

302 Privilege Of Being A Woman by Alice Von Hildebrand is the antidote to woke nonsense about women, and also to the evils of free love and sex without consequence. I recommend it to everyone, but particularly to girls who seem to be leaning toward the bullshit that popular culture tells them. I will prevent any girl from devaluing herself and falling from grace.

Posted by: tcn in AK, Hail to the Thief at May 07, 2023 02:31 PM (LOVUx)

303 Having more books than one can read --

Heaven or hell?

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 07, 2023 02:37 PM (uIu2G)

304 Posted by: tcn in AK, Hail to the Thief at May 07, 2023 02:31 PM (LOVUx)

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 07, 2023 02:37 PM (uIu2G)

Oh, you're still here?

Posted by: Book Thread Janitoir at May 07, 2023 02:39 PM (Angsy)

305 I didn't see any "Closed" sign.

Posted by: Weak Geek, last to leave at May 07, 2023 03:11 PM (uIu2G)

306 "One way in which hardboiled detective fiction differs from pure noir fiction is that the protagonist often exhibits some chivalric traits."

Raymond Chandler covered this pretty well in his Atlantic essay, "The Simple Art of Murder:"

"BUT all this (and Hammett too) is for me not quite enough. This is the point at which I begin to talk a little above myself, but it can’t be helped."

cont...

Posted by: Pope John 20th at May 07, 2023 03:40 PM (cYrkj)

307 "The realist in murder writes of a world in which gangsters can rule nations and almost rule cities, in which hotels and apartment houses and celebrated restaurants are owned by men who made their money out of brothels, in which a screen star can be the fingerman for a mob, and the nice man down the hall is a boss of the numbers racket; a world where a judge with a cellar full of bootleg liquor can send a man to jail for having a pint in his pocket, where the mayor of your town may have condoned murder as an instrument of money-making, where no man can walk down a dark street in safety because law and order are things we talk about but refrain from practicing; a world where you may witness a holdup in broad daylight and see who did it, but you will fade quickly back into the crowd rather than tell anyone, because the holdup men may have friends with long guns, or the police may not like your testimony, and in any case the shyster for the defense will be allowed to abuse and vilify you in open court, before a jury of selected morons, without any but the most perfunctory interference from a political judge."

cont....

Posted by: Pope John 20th at May 07, 2023 03:42 PM (cYrkj)

308 It is not a fragrant world, but it is the world you live in, and certain writers with tough minds and a cool spirit of detachment can make interesting and even amusing patterns out of it. It is not funny that a man should be killed, but it is sometimes funny that he should be killed for so little, and that his death should be the coin of what we call civilization. All this still is not quite enough.

"In everything that can be called art there is a quality of redemption. It may be pure tragedy, if it is high tragedy, and it may be pity and irony, and it may be the raucous laughter of the strong man. But down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid. The detective in this kind of story must be such a man. He is the hero; he is everything. He must be a complete man and a common man and yet an unusual man. He must be, to use a rather weathered phrase, a man of honor — by instinct, by inevitability, without thought of it, and certainly without saying it. He must be the best man in his world and a good enough man for any world."

cont....

Posted by: Pope John 20th at May 07, 2023 03:44 PM (cYrkj)

309 If any of this strikes a chord, I recommend you read the whole essay.

Posted by: Pope John 20th at May 07, 2023 03:46 PM (cYrkj)

310 "173 If you enjoyed the book "Drive Like Hell!" that was the basis for the film "Ford v Ferrari," you may like the book "The Limit: Life and Death on the 1961 Grand Prix Circuit."

"It is primarily about the early career of American driver Phil Hill, from dirt track racer to winner of the 1961 24 Hours of LeMans and Formula 1 Championship. The also book weaves in the stories, often tragic, of other top Formula 1 drivers in the late 50's and early 60's."

"The Limit" is an excellent book for those interested in period racing. Also a good point about the riskiness of racing. As a framing device, the author of "Cars At Speed" (Robert Daley) points out that by the 1959 Monaco GP 25% of the drivers of the 1958 race had died in racing accidents-Mike Hawthorne while drag racing on a public road.

Posted by: Pope John 20th at May 07, 2023 04:16 PM (cYrkj)

311 @307 --

Reminds me of the phrase by Don Pendleton (creator of the Executioner) in "Chicago Wipeout":

"a world in which the businessman is a politician, the politician is a criminal, and the criminal is a businessman."

Posted by: Weak Geek, blows raspberry at janitor at May 07, 2023 04:43 PM (uIu2G)

312 Privilege Of Being A Woman by Alice Von Hildebrand

Posted by: tcn in AK, Hail to the Thief at May 07, 2023 02:31 PM (LOVUx)
It sounds interesting. I've never heard of her or her husband's work before.

I also vote in favor of the Durant recommendations, generally speaking.

Posted by: Philip Sells at May 07, 2023 06:44 PM (g8soy)

313 The U.S. Army used Comanche code talkers in the European theater. For some reason much less well known than the Navajo. The Comanche Nation headquarters north of Lawton, Oklahoma, has a great statue honoring them.

Posted by: jtaylor at May 07, 2023 09:04 PM (koDAu)

314 Would the Sergio Leone/Clint Eastwood “Man With No Name” count as “Western noir?” If not, they would probably be close. I haven’t read widely in the Western genre to know of any written examples.

Posted by: March Hare at May 07, 2023 10:25 PM (WOU9P)

315

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