Announced and Possible Republican Candidates Answer -- or Refuse to Answer -- Tucker Carlson's Questionnaire About Support for the Ukraine War

Video below, then their answers and some commentary.

We asked every potential 2024 GOP presidential candidate to answer six key questions on the war in Ukraine. As promised, their full responses are below. pic.twitter.com/tjcM4w54cR
— Tucker Carlson (@TuckerCarlson) March 14, 2023

Tucker Carlson
@TuckerCarlson
We asked every potential 2024 GOP presidential candidate to answer six key questions on the war in Ukraine. As promised, their full responses are below.

Former President @realDonaldTrump answers our Ukraine questionnaire:
"Like inflation and numerous other self inflicted wounds and mistakes made over the past two years, Russia would definitely not have raided and attacked Ukraine if I was your President. In fact, for four years they didn't attack, nor did they have any intention of doing so as long as I was in charge. But the sad fact is that, due to a new lack of respect for the U.S., caused at least partially by our incompetently handled pullout from Afghanistan, and a very poor choice of words by Biden in explaining U.S. requests and intentions (Biden's first statement was that Russia could have some of Ukraine, no problem!), the bloody and expensive assault began, and continues to this day. That is all history, but how does it end, and it must end, NOW! Start by telling Europe that they must pay at least equal to what the U.S. is paying to help Ukraine. They must also pay us, retroactively, the difference. At a staggering 125 Billion Dollars, we are paying 4 to 5 times more, and this fight is far more important for Europe than it is for the U.S. Next, tell Ukraine that there will be little more money coming from us, UNLESS RUSSIA CONTINUES TO PROSECUTE THE WAR. The President must meet with each side, then both sides together, and quickly work out a deal. This can be easily done if conducted by the right President. Both sides are weary and ready to make a deal. The meetings should start immediately, there is no time to spare. The death and destruction MUST END NOW! Properly executed, this terrible and tragic War, a War that never should have started in the first place, will come to a speedy end. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!"

Is opposing Russia in Ukraine a vital American national strategic interest?
"No, but it is for Europe. But not for the United States. That is why Europe should be paying far more than we are, or equal."
What specifically is our objective in Ukraine, and how will we know when we've achieved it?
"Our objective in Ukraine is to help and secure Europe, but Europe isn't helping itself. They are relying on the United States to largely do it for them. That is very unfair to us. Especially since Europe takes advantage of us on trade and other things."

What is the limit of funding and materiel you would be willing to send to the government of Ukraine?
"That would strongly depend on my meeting with President Putin and Russia. Russia would have never attacked Ukraine if I were President, not even a small chance. Would have never happened if I were President, but it has. I would have to see what the direction in which Russia is headed. I want them to stop, and they will, depending on the one that delivers that message. But with everything said, Europe must pay. The United States has spent much more than Europe, and that is not fair, just, or equitable. If I were President, that horrible war would end in 24 hours, or less. It can be done, and it must be done-- now!"

Should the United States support regime change in Russia?
"No. We should support regime change in the United States, that's far more important. The Biden administration are the ones who got us into this mess."

LOL. Also, Trump isn't completely ruling out support for Ukraine:

"That would strongly depend on my meeting with President Putin and Russia. Russia would have never attacked Ukraine if I were President, not even a small chance. Would have never happened if I were President, but it has. I would have to see what the direction in which Russia is headed. I want them to stop, and they will, depending on the one that delivers that message."

He's just saying what many candidates say: If I were President, we wouldn't even have this problem to begin with, so my answer to the hypothetical isn't very important.

Not saying he's not entitled to say that. I just don't want to hear later that "Trump said he'd never support Ukraine and Meatball Ron was wishy-washy so he's a globalist!" Trump was not definitive on the question himself.

Given that Russia's economy and currency are stronger than before the war, do you believe that U.S. sanctions have been effective?
"No, they have not been effective. Just the opposite. They drove Russia, China and Iran into an unthinkable situation."
Do you believe the United States faces the risk of nuclear war with Russia?
"It depends on who the President of the United States is. At the moment, with Biden as president, absolutely yes. He says and does all the wrong things at the wrong time."

Can't argue with that.

Below, DeSantis' answer. I've bolded key words that all the NeverTrumpers and the Democrats and the propaganda media -- but I repeat myself thrice -- are Seizing and Pouncing on.

Florida Governor @RonDeSantisFL answers our Ukraine questionnaire:
"While the U.S. has many vital national interests -- securing our borders, addressing the crisis of readiness within our military, achieving energy security and independence, and checking the economic, cultural, and military power of the Chinese Communist Party -- becoming further entangled in a territorial dispute between Ukraine and Russia is not one of them. The Biden administration's virtual "blank check" funding of this conflict for "as long as it takes," without any defined objectives or accountability, distracts from our country's most pressing challenges.
Without question, peace should be the objective. The U.S. should not provide assistance that could require the deployment of American troops or enable Ukraine to engage in offensive operations beyond its borders. F-16s and long-range missiles should therefore be off the table. These moves would risk explicitly drawing the United States into the conflict and drawing us closer to a hot war between the world's two largest nuclear powers. That risk is unacceptable.
A policy of "regime change" in Russia (no doubt popular among the DC foreign policy interventionists) would greatly increase the stakes of the conflict, making the use of nuclear weapons more likely. Such a policy would neither stop the death and destruction of the war, nor produce a pro-American, Madisonian constitutionalist in the Kremlin. History indicates that Putin's successor, in this hypothetical, would likely be even more ruthless. The costs to achieve such a dubious outcome could become astronomical.
The Biden administration's policies have driven Russia into a de facto alliance with China. Because China has not and will not abide by the embargo, Russia has increased its foreign revenues while China benefits from cheaper fuel. Coupled with his intentional depletion of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve and support for the Left's Green New Deal, Biden has further empowered Russia's energy-dominated economy and Putin's war machine at Americans' expense.
Our citizens are also entitled to know how the billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars are being utilized in Ukraine.
We cannot prioritize intervention in an escalating foreign war over the defense of our own homeland, especially as tens of thousands of Americans are dying every year from narcotics smuggled across our open border and our weapons arsenals critical for our own security are rapidly being depleted."

I was wondering how DeSantis would deal with Ukraine. The politics of it are complex: MAGA voters have a very decisive position on Ukraine -- get out of Urkraine -- and the rest of the party is either unconstructed neocons or people who like to think that they're "just moderates" when in fact they're apathetic and indecisive, and view anyone with a decisive position as "extremist."

Did he thread the needle? I dunno, I suspect Trump's most zealous supporters will claim he's "being a globalist" or something.

All of the NeverTrump grifters seized upon DeSantis' answer to say he's Worse Than Trump.

David Frum
@davidfrum
Ron DeSantis's humiliating cringe to Tucker Carlson last night raises question: is the Fox News favorite flaming out already as a general election candidate?

Lindsey Graham
@LindseyGrahamSC
To those who believe that Russia's unprovoked and barbaric invasion of Ukraine is not a priority for the United States -- you are missing a lot.

Adam Kinzinger #fella
@AdamKinzinger
Trump and DeSantis have both sold out conservatism for some strange form of socialism and government control of free markets.
And now both have abandoned Ukraine. So no, Ben we are just true to our beliefs.

He was responding there to Ben Shapiro, who noticed:

Ben Shapiro
@benshapiro
Amazing to see all the people who said Trump was Hitler now swiveling to decry DeSantis. They're basically looking for an excuse to back Biden, and it's perfectly obvious.

Weird how Kinzinger claims he's not making up excuses to endorse Biden -- again. When he just retweeted this from Geraldo:

Adam Kinzinger #fella Retweeted
Geraldo Rivera
@GeraldoRivera
Hunter Biden has been investigated for almost five years. Aside from fact he's been a junkie dirtbag nothing remotely criminal has been uncovered.
Put up or shut up.

Yeah you're totally not Team Biden, "fella."

One last little tiny point: By answering this questionnaire that Tucker Carlson submitted to likely Republican candidates for President, not conservatives generally, Meatball Ron kind of admits he's running for president.

He could have responded, "given that I have not made any decisions to seek the presidency, this seems premature, and I will speak about it if necessary at a later date," or that kind of answer. Which would have been a dodge, but kind of a permissible dodge. I mean, he's not an announced candidate. (Yet.)

But he didn't take that dodge. He answered. And pretty much confirmed what has been reported, that he's made his decision, and that he is running.

Mike Pence's answer was pure unreformed neocon horseshit. He even entertains the possibility of regime change in Russia:

ormer VP @Mike_Pence
answers our Ukraine questionnaire
Is opposing Russia in Ukraine a vital American national strategic interest?
"When the United States supports Ukraine in their fight against Putin, we follow the Reagan doctrine, and we support those who fight our enemies on their shores, so we will not have to fight them ourselves. There is no room for Putin apologists in the Republican Party. This is not America's war, but if Putin is not stopped and the sovereign nation of Ukraine is not restored quickly, he will continue to move toward our NATO allies, and America would then be called upon to send our own.

We've been hearing "we have to fight them there or fight them here"/"we need to fight now to avoid an even bigger fight later" jive for decades.

This is Hack Conservaspeak. This is the conservaspeak equivalent of a comedian making jokes about airplane peanuts.

Vladimir Putin has revealed his true nature, a dictator consumed conquest and willing to spend thousands of lives for his commitment to reestablish the Greater Russian Empire. Anyone who thinks Putin will stop at Ukraine's border is not owning up to the reality of who Putin is. We need to be clear-eyed about the Russian threat: that Georgia, the Crimea, and Ukraine are merely at the top of Putin's lists, they are not the only countries he's aiming for. And by supporting Ukraine, we have told China we will support Taiwan, should they follow Russia in an attempt to invade."

Oh Jesus Help Me. For 83 years, every single American opponent has been Literally Hitler.

Hitler is all we ever talking about in foreign policy. We must never forget the lessons of Munich, we're constantly told.

Forget them? How could we ever forget them? They are literally the only lessons of history that are repeated in every single military/foreign policy question.

Are there any other lessons from history about war? Like, say, don't overreach? Don't overextend yourself into an indefensible position? Never get into a landwar in Asia? Or beware of getting on the tiger's back?

Nah nah nah, the only lesson from history we all have to remember is that all of our enemies are Literally Hitler, always, and we have to always fight Hitler, because if you don't fight Hitler, you'll have to fight Hitler later, and that's bad.

Oh, and every single war must be fought with the goal of unconditional enemy surrender, like we did with Literally-Literally Hitler, and then we must occupy that country for years afterwards to both rebuild its economy, like we did with Literally Germany, and to make sure they adopt American Principles of Government and Justice, as we also did with Literally Germany.

Are there any other exemplars from history we should ever follow, or is it just Hitler/Nazi Germany forever?

We have fought other wars, guys. Crack a fucking book once in a while.

What specifically is our objective in Ukraine, and how will we know when we've achieved it?
"Victory for Ukraine, where Ukraine's sovereignty and peace are restored as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, the Biden administration slow walked aid to Ukraine, every response has been too slow from providing intelligence to Ukraine, to hammering Russia with sanctions, to providing military equipment and fighter jets to Ukraine.
Ukraine's victory should be an unmistakable, undeniable defeat for Russia and its allies."

Total unconditional surrender is our war aim, as it was with Literally-Literally Hitler.

What is the limit of funding and material you would be willing to send to the government of Ukraine?
"As a fiscal conservative, I do not believe in sending blank checks and want oversight of government spending at home and abroad. But withholding or reducing support will have consequences: If Putin is not stopped now and he moves into NATO-controlled territory, the cost will be far greater."

Endless babbling. We have to fight as much as we can possibly fight so that we don't have to fight even more than we're eagerly signing up to fight.

Should the United States support regime change in Russia?
"That is a better question for the thousands of Russian citizens jailed for protesting the Russian invasion of Ukraine. As many as 200,000 Russian troops have been killed or wounded in Putin's invasion of Ukraine, that question should be asked to those families grieving their loss, ask if they'd support a regime change."

In other words: Yes.

Skipping: Nuclear war with Russia? Eh, it's a bluff. Let's roll the dice.

...
Do you believe the United States faces the risk of nuclear war with Russia?
"Putin is still "the small and bullying leader of Russia," his talk of nuclear war is a bullying tactic that he used at the start of the invasion. But Putin should know the United States will not be bullied. This administration has not led with strength on the world stage, but America is still a nation that believes peace comes through strength."

Well, I mean, I guess we do have to "show that we will not be bullied," that's really really important...

I'll refer you to Tucker's thread for the answers from Tim Scott, Chris Christie and Kristi Noem, who are not real candidates. Greg Abbott also responded. I guess maybe he's real longshot candidate.

Replying to @TuckerCarlson
The following GOP presidential hopefuls did not respond:
@NikkiHaley
@mikepompeo
@AsaHutchinson
@AmbJohnBolton
@GovChrisSununu

Posted by: Ace at 06:10 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 1st?

Posted by: Blackstone at March 14, 2023 06:11 PM (9byfS)

2 I'll get the French fryers

Posted by: andycanuck (Vwz3I) at March 14, 2023 06:11 PM (Vwz3I)

3 HA!!!!

Posted by: Blackstone at March 14, 2023 06:11 PM (9byfS)

4 Wall Of Words.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 14, 2023 06:12 PM (yQpMk)

5 I've got an answer. HELL NO.

Posted by: fd, still not gay at March 14, 2023 06:12 PM (iayUP)

6 Uh, hi….

Posted by: tubal at March 14, 2023 06:13 PM (PCK5/)

7 Bolton couldn't respond because his mustache was in the shop...

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at March 14, 2023 06:14 PM (PiwSw)

8 Read plenty enough to know I can vote for either Trump or DeSantis, although I hope DeSantis does not run.

Posted by: tubal at March 14, 2023 06:15 PM (PCK5/)

9 If it weren't for nukes, Poland could take Moscow right now. Dominoes will not be falling if the eastern part of Ukraine is run by Russian oligarchs rather than Ukrainian ones.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 14, 2023 06:15 PM (yQpMk)

10 Yeah - I get it. This DeSantis fellow is entirely in bed with the UniParty. Understood.

Posted by: Some Things Will Never Change at March 14, 2023 06:15 PM (YQeqw)

11 Disclose.tv @disclosetv · Mar 13
JUST IN - China's Xi Jinping plans to speak with Ukraine's Zelensky and is set to meet Putin next week in Moscow — WSJ

Posted by: andycanuck (Vwz3I) at March 14, 2023 06:15 PM (Vwz3I)

12 The following GOP presidential hopefuls did not respond:
@NikkiHaley
@mikepompeo
@AsaHutchinson
@AmbJohnBolton
@GovChrisSununu
___

We don't need Tucker Carlson's viewers for votes. Besides, you all already know we are all riding the Military Industrial Complex kickback train anyway.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at March 14, 2023 06:17 PM (fs1hN)

13 Good answers from both in my eyes.
The real tell will be how close to ZOD's answers
theirs are.

Posted by: Bosk at March 14, 2023 06:17 PM (ZVuYy)

14 I am pin a couple of groups on Facebook dedicated to thermal imaging hunting of hogs and coyotes. Anti-hunters say that if we wanted to be big men, we should go to Ukraine to shoot. I'm always asking why? I have no interest in Ukraine.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 14, 2023 06:17 PM (DQJX0)

15 I'm sure Adam Kinzinger pounds alot o' fellas.

Posted by: andycanuck (Vwz3I) at March 14, 2023 06:18 PM (Vwz3I)

16 can't cook a ukrainian

Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:18 PM (BvUNN)

17
'Liked' Trumps response, fell asleep during DeSantis's, who was after that?

Posted by: Divide by Zero at March 14, 2023 06:18 PM (enJYY)

18 En fuego, Señor Ace!

Posted by: That Guy who shouts "En fuego!" at March 14, 2023 06:18 PM (a3Q+t)

19 Looks like Trump and DeSantis are pretty much on the same page, which is fine by me. Pence is a sucker of Biden cock.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 14, 2023 06:18 PM (tkR6S)

20 Anti-hunters say that if we wanted to be big men, we should go to Ukraine to shoot. I'm always asking why? I have no interest in Ukraine.
Posted by: rickb223 at March 14, 2023 06:17 PM (DQJX0)

I guess they are suggesting cannibalism.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 14, 2023 06:18 PM (yQpMk)

21 I support both Trump and DeSantis, as well as making America great again (though I'm not American, I live here), and agree that Europe should show considerably more interest about Ukraine (concretely, by giving money and weapons) than the US.
However, I think the US interest goes far beyond making sure Europe is stable. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is similar to the Japanese invasion of Manchuria and the Munich agreement. Something fundamental is at stake: if borders can be changed by force, many more countries will be trying it soon. And "peace in our time" is not all that it's made out to be.

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 06:18 PM (84jHt)

22 So no more J6 video findings from Tucker? I haven't had cable in 1yr+

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at March 14, 2023 06:19 PM (ynpvh)

23 I really have never cared about Ukraine at all. Their rabid support by Democrats and the Regime just confirms this feeling.

Posted by: tubal at March 14, 2023 06:19 PM (PCK5/)

24 Pence should be the head of CPAC, he'd fit right in with the ghey cucks in attendance.

Posted by: Maj. Healey at March 14, 2023 06:19 PM (DMyTF)

25 can't cook a ukrainian
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:18 PM (BvUNN)

Too stringy? A pressure cooker will do wonders, Ace.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 14, 2023 06:19 PM (yQpMk)

26 I wonder if Pence voice-over's his written correspondence? I was unaware that apparently he had a radio show at one time or now, dunno.

I say that because he is particularly irksome when he pulls out that in-charge baritone voice trying to remedy his monotonic delivery.

Posted by: micky at March 14, 2023 06:19 PM (3byMq)

27 The same guy that refused to fire Fauci, blasted state Governors for opening up too early, asked Comey to stay on, and hired Bitch McConnell's wife in his Cabinet would have totally stood up to the Establishment position on Ukraine. Swearsies.

We know good and well son-in-law Kushner would be running this war right now and funning trillions while Trump tweeted some boob bait that accomplished absolutely nothing.

Posted by: Kukui at March 14, 2023 06:19 PM (lTw6i)

28 How hard is it to answer, "fuck Ukraine and especially Zelensky" ?

Posted by: Indignacio Vindacatorem at March 14, 2023 06:19 PM (4kL7R)

29 Excellent timing, just got back from the supermarket and will read through these.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 06:20 PM (eYoxG)

30 >>22 So no more J6 video findings from Tucker? I haven't had cable in 1yr+
Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia)

Nope. He cucked to Paul Ryan's thumb.

Posted by: Maj. Healey at March 14, 2023 06:20 PM (DMyTF)

31 can't cook a ukrainian

Or tuna fish.

Posted by: Bosk at March 14, 2023 06:20 PM (ZVuYy)

32 "Did he (DeSants) thread the needle? I dunno, I suspect Trump's most zealous supporters will claim he's "being a globalist" or something."

I'd just say he's being a political weasel. That's why everyone should be prepared to be disappointed in him if he does get elected. I don't see big changes coming in foreign policy.

Posted by: lowandslow at March 14, 2023 06:20 PM (76Foq)

33 Something fundamental is at stake: if borders can be changed by force, many more countries will be trying it soon. And "peace in our time" is not all that it's made out to be.
Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 06:18 PM (84jHt)

Let me know when our border is secure and I will then worry about far off places.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 14, 2023 06:21 PM (yQpMk)

34 I love the smell of armchair Armageddon in the evening.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 14, 2023 06:21 PM (Xrfse)

35 The Biden junta sanctions did and are putting a hurt on ordinary Americans.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Totally Unserious at March 14, 2023 06:21 PM (17s+e)

36 There is no rationale for a DeSantis Presidential run in 24, but we are apparently going to get that.

I look forward to him getting sub 10 percent of the primary vote and being out of the race by Super Tuesday.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at March 14, 2023 06:21 PM (up/3i)

37 Why the hell does Bolten get to keep the ambassador title? He’s not the ambassador to anything.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at March 14, 2023 06:21 PM (b4o9z)

38 >>I'd just say he's being a political weasel. That's why everyone should be prepared to be disappointed in him if he does get elected. I don't see big changes coming in foreign policy.

well as I point out Trump also didn't rule out giving weapons and support to Ukraine -- was he also being a political weasel, or are you reading in some definitive statement there that he said the opposite of?

Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:21 PM (BvUNN)

39 Too stringy? A pressure cooker will do wonders, Ace.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 14, 2023 06:19 PM (yQpMk)

(mandatory) You have to sous vide that shit.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 14, 2023 06:22 PM (tkR6S)

40 The Biden junta sanctions did and are putting a hurt on ordinary Americans.

Working as intended.

Posted by: Bosk at March 14, 2023 06:22 PM (ZVuYy)

41 And Nikki Haley?

Posted by: lizzy at March 14, 2023 06:22 PM (oa2Hh)

42 Lolwut?

Matt Yglesias:

Maybe a clearer example for the modern world of how banks create money is credit card transactions.

A sale is made, and your bank pays the seller based on your promise to pay the bank back later. Where did your bank get the money? Nowhere — there’s just more money now.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at March 14, 2023 06:22 PM (+68Ze)

43 36 There is no rationale for a DeSantis Presidential run in 24, but we are apparently going to get that.

I look forward to him getting sub 10 percent of the primary vote and being out of the race by Super Tuesday.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at March 14, 2023 06:21 PM (up/3i)

If he is foolish enough to run, I hope he exits early.

Posted by: tubal at March 14, 2023 06:22 PM (PCK5/)

44 Surprised by Noem connecting the sanctions to the move away from the US dollar.

She hasn't come across as that attentive.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at March 14, 2023 06:22 PM (Q4IgG)

45 Borders have always been changed by force. "Who Didn't take US History for $100, Alex?"

Posted by: Indignacio Vindacatorem at March 14, 2023 06:22 PM (4kL7R)

46 JFC! Do we have any real talent outside of DeSantis? Does not look like it.

Posted by: Earl Schlobodowicz at March 14, 2023 06:23 PM (P7Iz+)

47 >>41 And Nikki Haley?
Posted by: lizzy

No. Response.

Posted by: Maj. Healey at March 14, 2023 06:23 PM (DMyTF)

48 Too stringy? A pressure cooker will do wonders, Ace.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 14, 2023 06:19 PM

Let's not forget the small, but vociferous, contingent of sous viders, and the cooking methodology they demurely recommend.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 14, 2023 06:23 PM (a3Q+t)

49 there's a lot of this, people just assuming Trump promised this or that but not really bothering to see if trump actually said this or that or did this or that, just assuming "of course he shares my opinion on everything"

if you're going to be critical of desantis, which is perfectly fair, you do have to at least read Trump's answer, and not just assume he agrees with you

Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:23 PM (BvUNN)

50 Truly is a proven foreign policy wonder.

DeathSantis was kinda weasely in his answer imo.
But he's not done any foreign policy yet so I guess he's a newb.

Pence is a shithead.

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at March 14, 2023 06:23 PM (fUnHJ)

51 I wish Trump and DeSantis would team up, if not as President and VP, then at least as a unified force. I suppose that's too much to ask though.

Posted by: fd at March 14, 2023 06:23 PM (iayUP)

52 Help me out here, is there any real difference between Trump and DeSantis responses?

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 06:23 PM (0hOvj)

53 well I liked both PDJT and Gov DeSantis' responses, with the governor's slightly more aligned with where I am now (I feel terrible for my friends from Ukraine but I have seen way too much I can't stomach from President Zelensky - I'm honestly at a loss)

not that it matters but they both did well

it's a tough situation

Posted by: BlackOrchid at March 14, 2023 06:23 PM (w0NJk)

54 Trump is the Devil we know at this point. That's about it for me.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 14, 2023 06:24 PM (yQpMk)

55 I refer you to #39.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 14, 2023 06:24 PM (a3Q+t)

56 Guessing Tucker has been silenced

Posted by: Skip at March 14, 2023 06:24 PM (xhxe8)

57 A sale is made, and your bank pays the seller based on your promise to pay the bank back later. Where did your bank get the money? Nowhere — there’s just more money now.
___
Where did your bank get the money? Going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing from their depositors?

Posted by: Chuck Martel at March 14, 2023 06:25 PM (fs1hN)

58 Hitler is all we ever talking about in foreign policy. We must never forget the lessons of Munich, we're constantly told.

---------

Always fighting the last World War.

Posted by: ShainS -- The Abolition of The West is from Men Without Chests at March 14, 2023 06:25 PM (wVwUW)

59 51 I wish Trump and DeSantis would team up, if not as President and VP, then at least as a unified force. I suppose that's too much to ask though.
Posted by: fd

That would mean sharing the spotlight. Not going to happen.

Posted by: Maj. Healey at March 14, 2023 06:25 PM (DMyTF)

60 @53

>>it's a tough situation

Ukraine is WEAK!

** Holds Risk board between legs while riding 7 train **

Posted by: Thomas Bender at March 14, 2023 06:25 PM (up/3i)

61 We've been hearing "we have to fight them there or fight them here"/"we need to fight now to avoid an even bigger fight later" jive for decades.

===

...regime change..or terrorist have won !

Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 06:26 PM (V13WU)

62 I would like too see Josh Hawley consider a run for President- maybe not this time, but he'd certainly be a better candidate than the ones who didn't answer.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 14, 2023 06:26 PM (FUVRY)

63 A sale is made, and your bank pays the seller based on your promise to pay the bank back later. Where did your bank get the money? Nowhere — there’s just more money now.
Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy

Does this fall under the phrase stupid on stilts?

Posted by: micky at March 14, 2023 06:26 PM (3byMq)

64 I'm still learning the lessons of King Philip's War.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 14, 2023 06:26 PM (yQpMk)

65 Let's not forget the small, but vociferous, contingent of sous viders, and the cooking methodology they demurely recommend.
Posted by: Duncanthrax

How can you tell if you have sous vided a Ukrainian? They're already grey-ish.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 14, 2023 06:27 PM (DQJX0)

66 I'm not gonna get in the Trump versus DeSantis wars... I think DeSantis is holding out to see what happens to Trump with all the court cases and will chose to run if Trump's candidacy is in jeopardy....Personally ,unless the way "votes" are counted changes I don't see a Republican President in 2024

Posted by: It's me donna at March 14, 2023 06:27 PM (bs+z0)

67 "well as I point out Trump also didn't rule out giving weapons and support to Ukraine -- was he also being a political weasel, or are you reading in some definitive statement there that he said the opposite of?"
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:21 PM (BvUNN)

Nope, Trump is being a political weasel also. I don't see any big changes coming in eastern Europe for either one of them. Trump is already blowing it by still taking foreign policy advise from Richard Grennell.

Posted by: lowandslow at March 14, 2023 06:28 PM (76Foq)

68 Sell weapons to both Ukraine and Russia. We make money, and the more dead slavs, the better.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at March 14, 2023 06:28 PM (wmDcS)

69 I like both Trump's and DeSantis' answers. Trump, the deal maker wants to make a deal to stop the war, while DeSantis isn't as explicit on how to get out he is clearer on why the wide goals for a war we supposedly *aren't even IN at the moment* show he has a grasp of the issues, which traditionally have been seen as a weakness for a governor trying to step up.

Less said about Pence the better. And that he's buying into those inflated Russian loss totals shows he's either a fool or a liar. The London Times has been looking into Russian funerals to estimate death rates and are coming up to somewhere in the 15000 range.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 06:28 PM (eoQWY)

70 To the neocon and their unlikely friends, the former anti-war liberal activists now turned war hawks, Putin is a paradox

He is an evil, unhinged dictator hell-bent on global domination in his paranoid mind, but also a thoughtful, reasonable, restrained leader who would never use nukes.

Square that circle.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at March 14, 2023 06:28 PM (WentF)

71 Let me know when our border is secure and I will then worry about far off places.

Unfortunately, all problems come at once, not one at a time.
A large part of it is having Biden's White House stuff as president, no dobt. I wish someone else were US president. I wish the election had not been stolen.

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 06:29 PM (84jHt)

72 DeSantis/Trump 2024

The best anti-assassination insurance ever.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 14, 2023 06:29 PM (a3Q+t)

73 Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 14, 2023 06:26 PM

Me too.. I'm a fan of Hawley

Posted by: It's me donna at March 14, 2023 06:29 PM (bs+z0)

74 Nope, Trump is being a political weasel also. I don't see any big changes coming in eastern Europe for either one of them.

I agree, Trump is not the outsider non-politician any longer, he's been president 4 years. He's a politician now. There's no daylight between him and DeSantis here.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 06:29 PM (0hOvj)

75 I think DeSantis is holding out to see what happens to Trump with all the court cases and will chose to run if Trump's candidacy is in jeopardy.

That just makes DeSantis a coward. Either run and defeat him in an open contest, or step aside. Letting the left do the dirty work is chickenshit.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at March 14, 2023 06:29 PM (wmDcS)

76 Bannon seems to be warming to DeSantis a little. The other day he said (about DeSantis) something like "there's a man that knows how to pick good men for his administration". I forget the issue, but it seem like a backhanded slap at Trump.

Of course Bannon and many faithful that helped Trump win the election were dumped by Trump early on, and the parade of back stabbers marked the new hire sheet show.

Posted by: illiniwek at March 14, 2023 06:29 PM (Cus5s)

77 Mike Pence: The Russian's have lost 6 million soldiers against the Lions of Keeeev. Why are you all laughing at me?

Posted by: Thomas Bender at March 14, 2023 06:29 PM (up/3i)

78 Trump's answer is in line with his previous foreign policy, very realpolitik. He'll advocate for US interests and play things according to circumstance. Hard to describe what that would that mean as a precise course of action due to circumstances being variable, but the guiding principle is easy to understand.

DeSantis's answer is reasoned and measured, acknowledging the right's preference (and I would say the preference of Americans in general) but doesn't give insight into the specifics of a response or what his general theory of foreign policy is. I suspect that is either because it is not defined or because he listens to multiple people with competing schools of thought and has not decided on one.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 06:29 PM (eYoxG)

79 "Anti-hunters say that if we wanted to be big men, we should go to Ukraine to shoot. I'm always asking why? I have no interest in Ukraine.
Posted by: rickb223 at March 14, 2023 06:17 PM (DQJX0)"

Tell them that hogs taste better barbecued that Ukrainians do.

Posted by: FeatherBlade at March 14, 2023 06:29 PM (AWwA/)

80 Pence's answer = unadulterated horseshit.

Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 06:29 PM (V13WU)

81 Russia using nukes is a bluff. Whether it's a bluff or not I'm not willing to call it. I didn't believe anyone actually thought this way but there's one moron who believes it apparently.

Also would like to add there's zero evidence of this claim that Putin's going to invade all of these countries to reconstitute Tsarist Russia or the USSR. Putin's moves over the years have largely been to reclaim territories with majority Russian populations in them.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 14, 2023 06:30 PM (QRdjz)

82 Are there any other lessons from history about war? Like, say, don't overreach? Don't overextend yourself into an indefensible position? Never get into a landwar in Asia? Or beware of getting on the tiger's back?
-----------
You forgot "Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line."

Posted by: The Otters at March 14, 2023 06:31 PM (2hlEI)

83 Off sneaky mustelid sock.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea at March 14, 2023 06:31 PM (2hlEI)

84 Trump is already blowing it by still taking foreign policy advise from Richard Grennell.

Grennell was very comfortable at CPAC...in his loafers.

Posted by: Maj. Healey at March 14, 2023 06:31 PM (DMyTF)

85 Both Trump and DeSantis appear to understand the situation correctly. Pence remains what he apparently always was: a neocon who never met a war he wasn't willing to let others fight and die in.

Posted by: Blake - semi lurker at large at March 14, 2023 06:31 PM (2YtOq)

86 Looks like Trump and DeSantis are pretty much on the same page, which is fine by me. Pence is a sucker of Biden cock.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 14, 2023 06:18 PM (tkR6S)

My take also. Trump or DeSantis. But I'd wish DeSantis stays in FL four more years. His work isn't finished there.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at March 14, 2023 06:31 PM (BdMk6)

87 Ukraine border is sacred, can't see why ours isn't.
Russia should have rushed the border with civilians

Posted by: Skip at March 14, 2023 06:31 PM (xhxe8)

88 The tl;dr of Trump's position is that he'll approach it in terms of profit and loss for the US, which is just generally how he does foreign policy.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 06:32 PM (eYoxG)

89 I hate the fucking chickenshit warmonger neocons the most.

they want to pretend russia is still the ussr. ok, let the soviet socialist republics fight out their civil war without us.

Posted by: x at March 14, 2023 06:32 PM (ZBPE2)

90 "well I liked both PDJT and Gov DeSantis' responses, with the governor's slightly more aligned with where I am now "

They're pretty much saying the same thing, DeSantis just uses more three syllable words.

Posted by: FeatherBlade at March 14, 2023 06:32 PM (AWwA/)

91 Grinnell

Posted by: Maj. Healey at March 14, 2023 06:32 PM (DMyTF)

92 79 "Anti-hunters say that if we wanted to be big men, we should go to Ukraine to shoot.

yeah... No... There's a big difference between shooting game for food and shooting men in war... Especially in a Country that has no benefits for the US

Posted by: It's me donna at March 14, 2023 06:32 PM (bs+z0)

93 effit, if this is all gonna be Trump vs DeSantis -by-proxy, I'm the eff outta here.

seeya all later

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - we are being gaslighted 24/365 at March 14, 2023 06:32 PM (VohFI)

94 Did Tucker's questionnaire tie Ukraine to NATO in any fashion?

Not only do we need to get out of Ukraine, we need to defund and withdraw from the foreign policy relic known as NATO.

Reboot. Renegotiate.

They have the European Union. The Russians are trying to reconstruct the Soviet Union. Time to get with the times, geezers.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at March 14, 2023 06:32 PM (Jg7EG)

95 Pence's answer = unadulterated horseshit.

I wouldn't say that, there is some truth in it.

For instance, he admits that Russia has only lost "thousands of lives" and not "hundreds of thousands of lives" like the propaganda state likes to report.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at March 14, 2023 06:32 PM (WentF)

96 Tell them that hogs taste better barbecued that Ukrainians do.
Posted by: FeatherBlade at March 14, 2023 06:29 PM (AWwA/)

I will have to defer to others' knowledge in this area. I would think a cornfed Ukrainian child would rival a piglet for taste and texture.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 14, 2023 06:32 PM (yQpMk)

97 if you're going to be critical of desantis, which is perfectly fair, you do have to at least read Trump's answer, and not just assume he agrees with you
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:23 PM (BvUNN)
---
I read it as Trump being critical of the Europeans not taking their own defense seriously. Also, we have a lot of problems here at home that are more important.

If Xi manages to strike a peace treaty between Russia and Ukraine, that will show just how weak and feckless FJB is, though we already knew that.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 14, 2023 06:32 PM (BpYfr)

98 Hawley++ here, too

Posted by: micky at March 14, 2023 06:33 PM (3byMq)

99 "Where did your bank get the money? "

From you, but in the future.

Posted by: FeatherBlade at March 14, 2023 06:33 PM (AWwA/)

100 "well as I point out Trump also didn't rule out giving weapons and support to Ukraine -- was he also being a political weasel, or are you reading in some definitive statement there that he said the opposite of?"
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:21 PM (BvUNN)

Nope, Trump is being a political weasel also. I don't see any big changes coming in eastern Europe for either one of them. Trump is already blowing it by still taking foreign policy advise from Richard Grennell.

Posted by: lowandslow at March 14, 2023 06:28 PM (76Foq)

I see it more as diplomacy - we are trading ending our support for Russia making some accommodations about the end state of the area after the war, as yet undetermined. The real sticking point is that you have to find a way that Russia would trust the West's word after the way we shafted them in the Minsk Accords and since.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 06:33 PM (eoQWY)

101 Putin is building a NATO buffer zone. Because NATO developed serious, uncontrollable and unsustainable appetite. Driven by neocon idiocy and warmongering.

Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 06:33 PM (V13WU)

102 De Santis' reponse was much better than I expected. I am surprised his backers allowed it. Pleasantly surprised.

For me personally, not nearly enough. Not much actually certain there. Impossibly crafted.

He seems to be trying to cobble together some upper class and high upper middle class GOPe and then neo-con voting coalition. Idk how that gets even 30mil votes. Idk.

The vast maj of GOP has less than no interest in anyone not explicitly against the GOPe. Explicitly against. Hoping to work with them is not going to cut it. Neither is hoping to manipulate them.

I'm a strong die-hard DJT guy only because my own preferences of Kobach and Navarro couldn't win shit. I admit it.

I love DJT on For Pol and Econ. Everything else is ehhhh. But god damn that For Pol and Econ is fantastic.

How does he get to 80mil votes? Or hold the DEM to under the 30mil he could get?

Posted by: Thesokorus at March 14, 2023 06:33 PM (1ais2)

103 As far as I'm concerned there are two candidates, Trump and DeSantis. I think I know Trump's intentions because I saw what he did for 4 years and I think his first instinct it to negotiate an end to the war. I also don't think he would escalate barring some Crazy Ivan shit which I don't think Putin would do because he knows Trump is not Biden.

I don't think DeSantis would do the neocon thing but he doesn't have the same track record to compare. His answer wasn't bad, pretty good actually, but he is more of an unknown.

Nobody else matters to me.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 14, 2023 06:34 PM (ZLI7S)

104 There is no rationale for a DeSantis Presidential run in 24, but we are apparently going to get that.

I look forward to him getting sub 10 percent of the primary vote and being out of the race by Super Tuesday.
Posted by: Thomas Bender

++

You do know there is no reality where Trump ever sits in the White House again?

He's had 2 elections to show his brand is now shit and can't get across the finish line. Even with a flailing Biden, the worse inflation in 40+ years, $5 gas and foreign policy catastrophes.

I think most of his dwindling supporters know that Trump is nothing but an angry middle finger and that it's just a kamikaze mission from here on out.

Posted by: Kukui at March 14, 2023 06:34 PM (lTw6i)

105 Here is the problem:
Neither Trump nor DeathSantis can winwith the Deep State opposed to them.
So the only way they win if they cut a deal with at least one faction.
Then if they do win -what?
(my dream scenario is the winner then does a Stalinesque purge)

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at March 14, 2023 06:35 PM (fUnHJ)

106 feral hog isn't all that tasty

Posted by: x at March 14, 2023 06:35 PM (ZBPE2)

107 "Putin's moves over the years have largely been to reclaim territories with majority Russian populations in them."
Hitler also only reclaimed territories that had been historically German and/or still had German majorities.
Until he didn't and proclaimed the Bohemian protectorate.
This is a good tactic to weaken his adversary, then get the rest for free. Putin and his circle keep claiming that their ultimate goal is to cleanse the whole of Ukraine from fascism.

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 06:35 PM (84jHt)

108 As far as I'm concerned there are two candidates, Trump and DeSantis. I think I know Trump's intentions because I saw what he did for 4 years and I think his first instinct it to negotiate an end to the war. I also don't think he would escalate barring some Crazy Ivan shit which I don't think Putin would do because he knows Trump is not Biden.

I don't think DeSantis would do the neocon thing but he doesn't have the same track record to compare. His answer wasn't bad, pretty good actually, but he is more of an unknown.

Nobody else matters to me.
Posted by: JackStraw

JackStraw for SecState or Chief of Staff.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 14, 2023 06:36 PM (DQJX0)

109 Remember when in the heyday of Iraq invasion neocons thought it was a very good idea to divide up a sovereign Iraq into 3 different countries - Sunni controlled, Kurd Controlled and Shia controlled ?

Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 06:36 PM (V13WU)

110 Didn't we best Grenada?
And Panama? And the Dominican Republic even. And Ruby Ridge and Waco.

Posted by: torabora at March 14, 2023 06:36 PM (OUiUM)

111 "~I think DeSantis is holding out to see what happens to Trump with all the court cases and will chose to run if Trump's candidacy is in jeopardy.~

That just makes DeSantis a coward. Either run and defeat him in an open contest, or step aside. Letting the left do the dirty work is chickenshit."

Well, not necessarily. It could just be that if Trump prevails and is the candidate, DeSantis would feel no need to spend his energy on fighting with him about it.

It would be a better use of time an money to not fight Trump and just declare his candidacy next time when Trump can't run.

Posted by: FeatherBlade at March 14, 2023 06:36 PM (AWwA/)

112 Putin's moves over the years have largely been to reclaim territories with majority Russian populations in them.

I mean, technically accurate, but let's say Mexico decided that policy was valid? OK We're taking over most of Arizona, California, New Mexico, Texas, etc. Our peeps are there!

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 06:36 PM (0hOvj)

113 No Churchills or Reagans in this mix, but that's OK, the world doesn't really require one. Which is a good thing.

Trump has one correct kernel - that it is, at most, primarily Europe's problem - but then sort of muddles the point, with his repackaged "burden-sharing" schtick, which of course dates back to the late 60s. I didn't/don't expect Trump (or anyone) to be able to fix, change, or nudge all the things that needed same, so not wrapped around the axle about it, but stipulating (just inertially keeping) the NATO framework and whining about resources is pretty meh, and was disappointing when he was prez.

Heavy D's OK I guess, sounds like stuff the advisors he has would write. Obviously he, like Trump, would be vastly more sensible and effective in foreign policy, and the bar is so low I don't mean that as faint praise. He'd be fine.

Lindsey Graham is really pretty dumb, or at least way over his head on foreign policy, like most of his colleagues.

Posted by: rhomboid at March 14, 2023 06:37 PM (OTzUX)

114 No Jarvanka is a great plus on DeSantis' side.

Posted by: Maj. Healey at March 14, 2023 06:37 PM (DMyTF)

115 Remember when in the heyday of Iraq invasion neocons thought it was a very good idea to divide up a sovereign Iraq into 3 different countries - Sunni controlled, Kurd Controlled and Shia controlled ?
Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 06:36 PM (V13WU)

The only person I recall suggesting that idea was Biden, and it was derided then as monumentally stupid.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at March 14, 2023 06:37 PM (wmDcS)

116 feral hog isn't all that tasty
Posted by: x

Up to about 90 lbs.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 14, 2023 06:37 PM (DQJX0)

117 I'll refer you to Tucker's thread for the answers from Tim Scott, Chris Christie and Kristi Noem, who are not real candidates.

Noem's response was actually good. It's too bad that she has shown that she will fold like a cheap suit when the NCAA or globohomo complains.

Posted by: Chuck C at March 14, 2023 06:37 PM (xttsV)

118 Putin and his circle keep claiming that their ultimate goal is to cleanse the whole of Ukraine from fascism.
Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 06:35 PM (84jHt)

I.do.not.care. He can have the grain, the pipelines, and the whores, heck, he can have our illegal bioweapons labs to boot.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 14, 2023 06:38 PM (yQpMk)

119 Oh, good. I always enjoy hen people whose nic I've never seen before come just to engage in Trump/ DeSantis wars./s

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 14, 2023 06:38 PM (FUVRY)

120 109 Remember when in the heyday of Iraq invasion neocons thought it was a very good idea to divide up a sovereign Iraq into 3 different countries - Sunni controlled, Kurd Controlled and Shia controlled ?
Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 06:36 PM (V13WU)

It's Wilson's theory of dividing countries up into ethno-nations. Ignores the political reality on the ground oftentimes, as that division not only fucks over some neighboring countries, it fucks over the non-Kurdish Sunnis iirc.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 06:38 PM (eYoxG)

121 I mean, technically accurate, but let's say Mexico decided that policy was valid? OK We're taking over most of Arizona, California, New Mexico, Texas, etc. Our peeps are there!
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 06:36 PM (0hOvj)
---
I don't see us stopping them anytime soon if they decided to announce that policy.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 14, 2023 06:38 PM (BpYfr)

122 They're pretty much saying the same thing, DeSantis just uses more three syllable words.
Posted by: FeatherBlade at March 14, 2023 06:32 PM (AWwA/)

That's a fair point. But then why DeSantis? Why DeSantis on anything?

And DJTs FP as pres shows he means what he is saying.

So, why DeSantis? Why on anything?

Posted by: Thesokorus at March 14, 2023 06:38 PM (1ais2)

123 I mean, technically accurate, but let's say Mexico decided that policy was valid? OK We're taking over most of Arizona, California, New Mexico, Texas, etc. Our peeps are there!

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 06:36 PM (0hOvj)

Ummm.....

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at March 14, 2023 06:38 PM (WentF)

124 Ukraine is trafficking the weapons, drugs, and children and laundering the money that Americans won't. We must support them.

Posted by: The Deep State at March 14, 2023 06:38 PM (CaJIi)

125 >>JackStraw for SecState or Chief of Staff.

It's gotta be Chief of Staff. I'd never make it through a Senate hearing.

Way, way, way too many skeletons.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 14, 2023 06:39 PM (ZLI7S)

126 It's Wilson's theory of dividing countries up into ethno-nations. Ignores the political reality on the ground oftentimes, as that division not only fucks over some neighboring countries, it fucks over the non-Kurdish Sunnis iirc.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 06:38 PM (eYoxG)

Creating an independent Kurdish state is pretty much a guarantee of turning the whole region into a warzone.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at March 14, 2023 06:39 PM (wmDcS)

127 "So, why DeSantis? Why on anything?"

*shrug* you always need a successor in the wings.

Posted by: FeatherBlade at March 14, 2023 06:39 PM (AWwA/)

128 The only person I recall suggesting that idea was Biden, and it was derided then as monumentally stupid.
Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at March 14, 2023 06:37 PM (wmDcS)

It was seriously kicked around. Biden, because of his status in in the Senate being privy to all behind the scenes machinations , just blabbed it out. Like he alway does with top secret shtuf.

Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 06:40 PM (V13WU)

129 I mean, technically accurate, but let's say Mexico decided that policy was valid? OK We're taking over most of Arizona, California, New Mexico, Texas, etc. Our peeps are there!
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor

Mexico may want to rethink that. I don't think Texas will roll the way they think it will.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 14, 2023 06:40 PM (DQJX0)

130 The US needs regime change more then Russia does.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 14, 2023 06:40 PM (lc5cP)

131 I don't see us stopping them anytime soon if they decided to announce that policy.

If Mexico wasn't such a disaster they probably would do it and yeah, we'd just watch and issue angry letters and shout in the UN.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 06:40 PM (0hOvj)

132 112 "Putin's moves over the years have largely been to reclaim territories with majority Russian populations in them."

I mean, technically accurate, but let's say Mexico decided that policy was valid? OK We're taking over most of Arizona, California, New Mexico, Texas, etc. Our peeps are there!
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 06:36 PM (0hOvj)

Most importantly from our perspective should be that those operations occurred within their existing sphere of influence.

We had more reason to be concerned about their operations in the Middle East than in Ukraine. Russian troops in Syria or Russian support for Venezuela is far more of a play for power than slicing off Russian bits of Georgia.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 06:40 PM (eYoxG)

133 One way to lock up a lot of disgruntled conservatives is to announce you're not filling the Secretary of State position. Just appointing temps to clean out the entire department. If they don't show results every month, kick them out and appoint another temp. Any major diplomatic issues can be handled from the White House.

Posted by: lowandslow at March 14, 2023 06:41 PM (76Foq)

134 "Remember when in the heyday of Iraq invasion neocons thought it was a very good idea to divide up a sovereign Iraq into 3 different countries - Sunni controlled, Kurd Controlled and Shia controlled ?
Posted by: runner"

That was what Biden wanted too. So you know it had to be a dumb idea.

Posted by: fd at March 14, 2023 06:41 PM (iayUP)

135 Also, we have a lot of problems here at home that are more important.

Totally agree.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 14, 2023 06:41 PM (Xrfse)

136 If you go to Ukraine you could literally shoot real Nazis

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at March 14, 2023 06:41 PM (fUnHJ)

137 2004: War is never the answer!

2023: A little globo thermo nuclear war never hurt anyone. Well, that matters.

Posted by: The Left at March 14, 2023 06:41 PM (lc5cP)

138 >>>130 The US needs regime change more then Russia does.

trump said that.

Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:41 PM (BvUNN)

139 I don't see us stopping them anytime soon if they decided to announce that policy.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel

*Texas has entered the chat.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 14, 2023 06:42 PM (DQJX0)

140 Oh, and may be largely moot by 2025. Barring black swans, the fundamentals have always made it unlikely Ukraine can do much beyond raise the cost to Russia to keep it's current "gains", and there's real doubt Ukraine can sustain even that effort. If a formal resolution doesn't happen before then, a de facto one may well have taken shape.

Posted by: rhomboid at March 14, 2023 06:42 PM (OTzUX)

141 Trump and DeSantis gave good answers.

I like that Trump realizes he is dealing with people, egos and personalities and that the key to getting a deal will be to provide the proper combination of assurances, threats and stroking, with a realistic eye to everyone's national interests. One thing I have noticed about him is that he is very goal oriented and will find a way to get things done, but that is not conducive to laying out a detailed plan and presenting it as this question calls for. I would be very comfortable just letting him see what he could do.

DeSantis seems to be a little more rigid in his thinking and lays out minutia about which weapons systems he would send, while not even mentioning negotiation or what the off-ramp would be. With Trump we know it is negotiation. DeSantis says peace is the objective --- which tells us nothing.

They both know funding would still be sent and Trump keys in on Europe paying more. DeSantis seems to want to elide that issue entirely and doesn't admit that we will still be sending funds. All-in-all, gotta give Trump the edge.

Posted by: Thatch at March 14, 2023 06:42 PM (A+k5G)

142 I was actually pleasantly surprised with Trump’s general foreign policy. I was expecting that to be the one area he’d have a lot of difficulty in.

But like Ace, I’m over the “Trump is the only guy who can save us, even though he demonstrated his inability to save us last time” mentality from some of Trump’s supporters.

Posted by: Joe, living dangerously at March 14, 2023 06:42 PM (fKIdX)

143 130 The US needs regime change more then Russia does.
Posted by: 18-1

That's what Pres. Trump said.

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at March 14, 2023 06:42 PM (fUnHJ)

144 I support both Trump and DeSantis, as well as making America great again (though I'm not American, I live here), and agree that Europe should show considerably more interest about Ukraine (concretely, by giving money and weapons) than the US.
However, I think the US interest goes far beyond making sure Europe is stable. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is similar to the Japanese invasion of Manchuria and the Munich agreement. Something fundamental is at stake: if borders can be changed by force, many more countries will be trying it soon. And "peace in our time" is not all that it's made out to be.
Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 06:18 PM (84jHt)

If we are going to make WWII analogies, the Azov and other extra-military forces in that country are as close to actual Nazis as you can get, and the US is backing them. And its not just the Russians who claimed this, before the invasion stories about the Nazi ties of these semi-military/semi political groups were all over the leftist press in Europe.

I have a lot of sympathy for the average Joe Ukraine conscript, being bombarded in a crumbled town without hope, but the Azovs and the government backing them gets no support from me.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 06:42 PM (eoQWY)

145 How can you tell if you have sous vided a Ukrainian? They're already grey-ish.
Posted by: rickb223 at March 14, 2023 06:27 PM

So the comment boxes here have been sous vided??!?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 14, 2023 06:42 PM (a3Q+t)

146 I'd say if the US government was shelling Hispanics in Texas, New Mexico, California, and Arizona for 8 years and they voted as states to join Mexico for protection from their own government, I'd understand.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at March 14, 2023 06:42 PM (WentF)

147 let's say Mexico decided that policy was valid? OK We're taking over most of Arizona, California, New Mexico, Texas, etc. Our peeps are there!
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor

They would never do that because then, in due time, they'd just have more shithole. Remittances from Kansas aren't going to cut it.

Posted by: t-bird at March 14, 2023 06:42 PM (Sv58p)

148 >>JackStraw for SecState or Chief of Staff.

It's gotta be Chief of Staff. I'd never make it through a Senate hearing.

Way, way, way too many skeletons.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 14, 2023 06:39 PM (ZLI7S)

----------

All you'd have to do is identify as a black transgender lesbian Muslim pygmy cos-playing puppy, and you'd be confirmed unanimously.

Posted by: ShainS -- The Abolition of The West is from Men Without Chests at March 14, 2023 06:43 PM (wVwUW)

149 If you go to Ukraine you could literally shoot real Nazis

Isn't that amazing? The biggest bugbear in the leftist mindset is the nazi. They call all their enemies fascists. They say they want to punch a nazi.

Then, when real, actual, sworn, open fascists are armed and killing people, the LEFT CHEERS THEM ON AND WAVES THE FLAG.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 06:43 PM (0hOvj)

150 I don't see us stopping them anytime soon if they decided to announce that policy.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel

Oh, and this time? Their Santa Anna doesn't live.

We still remember the Alamo.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 14, 2023 06:44 PM (DQJX0)

151 "Remember when in the heyday of Iraq invasion neocons thought it was a very good idea to divide up a sovereign Iraq into 3 different countries - Sunni controlled, Kurd Controlled and Shia controlled ?
Posted by: runner"

That was what Biden wanted too. So you know it had to be a dumb idea.
Posted by: fd at March 14, 2023 06:41 PM (iayUP)
---
One of these groups is not like the other. (HINT: It's the one that's not based on a religious sect.)

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 14, 2023 06:44 PM (BpYfr)

152 >>>De Santis' reponse was much better than I expected. I am surprised his backers allowed it. Pleasantly surprised.

LOL, keep lying and claiming Trump didn't take all the same money. You're just pissed because a lot of Trump's former donors are moving to DeSantis.

But it was okay when Trump took money from HIS "backers," right?

't fuck out of here.

Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:44 PM (BvUNN)

153 138 >>>130 The US needs regime change more then Russia does.

trump said that.
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:41 PM (BvUNN)

The entertainment value is great. Love his absolutely chad give no shits response to some things.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 06:44 PM (eYoxG)

154 If a formal resolution doesn't happen before then, a de facto one may well have taken shape.
Posted by: rhomboid at March 14, 2023 06:42 PM (OTzUX)

If Russia ever manages to take Odessa, Ukraine becomes a landlocked rump state. An even more corrupt Moldova.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 14, 2023 06:44 PM (yQpMk)

155 No more bullshit "Use of Force" or more bullshit "Authorized Use of Force" or anything short of a "Declaration Of War" and all that entails.

Enough. If we have no reason to "Declare War" then stay the hell out. No more bullshit talk.

And get out of NATO. NATO is for losers, grifters and soon to be mooselim eurotrash. Let them rot.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at March 14, 2023 06:44 PM (R/m4+)

156 "The politics of it are complex: MAGA voters have a very decisive position on Ukraine"

They're being led around by the nose on this the same way they were with masks; yes, mask policy was transparently stupid, but the goal of the mask policy was to make a mess of things and get the right to line up on the other side of the issue as framed by the left in order to vilify them.

Guess what: Prog policy on Ukraine was transparently stupid, and the goal was to make a mess - a war - with which they can get the right to line up on the other side of the issue in order to vilify them. It's extra easy to do this when both (real) Russian propagandists and domestic prog shills are messaging the same thing to the right.

This war should not have happened, and the Western left went out of their way to egg it on, with an assist from China. I'll entertain practical arguments over our level of involvement including "none", but anyone who characterizes it as a simple territorial dispute gets written off as a moron at best. The progs committed a vile act by deliberately encouraging Russia - who isn't exactly hiding their domestic genocidal rhetoric on this - to step on their own dick.

Posted by: somedood at March 14, 2023 06:44 PM (7QclL)

157 127 "So, why DeSantis? Why on anything?"

*shrug* you always need a successor in the wings.
Posted by: FeatherBlade at March 14, 2023 06:39 PM (AWwA/)

That's what I want fwiw. Keep kicking ass in FLA while DJT tries again. Securing a maj state's electoral system is arguably more important than DJT winning. It would create a control group. And example.

I just don't see how Ron moves the ball in the contest with the GOPe. And that's really all that matters.

Posted by: Thesokorus at March 14, 2023 06:45 PM (1ais2)

158 Also, we have a lot of problems here at home that are more important.

Yeah, this is what it comes down to. Even if somehow Ukraine was a massively important strategic point or we had any valid reasons to be spending all this money and sending them all this armament... we have too much that needs doing at home. We're too far in debt. We have a border right here at home that needs protecting.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 06:45 PM (0hOvj)

159 151 "Remember when in the heyday of Iraq invasion neocons thought it was a very good idea to divide up a sovereign Iraq into 3 different countries - Sunni controlled, Kurd Controlled and Shia controlled ?
Posted by: runner"

That was what Biden wanted too. So you know it had to be a dumb idea.
Posted by: fd at March 14, 2023 06:41 PM (iayUP)
---
One of these groups is not like the other. (HINT: It's the one that's not based on a religious sect.)
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at March 14, 2023 06:44 PM (BpYfr)

The Kurds are Sunni. So Sunni Arabs, Shia Arabs, and Sunni Kurds.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 06:45 PM (eYoxG)

160 Putin's moves over the years have largely been to reclaim territories with majority Russian populations in them.

==

not accurate. he cares if he sees NATO from his house. that is all. and may I say, Black Sea is kinda far from the US borders.

Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 06:45 PM (V13WU)

161 >>If we are going to make WWII analogies, the Azov and other extra-military forces in that country are as close to actual Nazis as you can get, and the US is backing them. And its not just the Russians who claimed this, before the invasion stories about the Nazi ties of these semi-military/semi political groups were all over the leftist press in Europe.

So were the killings. It has fallen out of the news, shockingly, but prior to the war with Russia the Ukrainian government was at war with ethnic Russians in the Donbas region. Estimates are that between 10,000 and 15,000 were killed.

You don't hear much about that these days.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 14, 2023 06:45 PM (ZLI7S)

162 The fate of Donbas isn't in the top 20 problems that face the US, but if were a serious country and decided to solve it in a serious manner we would do the following

1) Seek an immediate armistice
2) Tell Ukraine these are the terms that will be offered to Russia
A) Union of Donbas to Russia
B) A plebiscite in the Eastern regions to decide whether they want to be in Ukraine or Russia run by neutral countries - perhaps Japan and India
3) Audit of every cent given to Ukraine, and Ukraine will fork over all guilty parties on their end for trial in the US (so they will give up their US counterparts)

Posted by: 18-1 at March 14, 2023 06:46 PM (lc5cP)

163 Unless there's a GOP ballot harvesting program setup to collect 300M ballots, all arguments about Trump vs. DeSantis are academic.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at March 14, 2023 06:46 PM (Q4IgG)

164 By the way, PDT correctly pointed out the invasion started because Joe said something which was incredibly irresponsible.

Posted by: Blake - semi lurker at large at March 14, 2023 06:46 PM (2YtOq)

165 Oh, and may be largely moot by 2025. Barring black swans, the fundamentals have always made it unlikely Ukraine can do much beyond raise the cost to Russia to keep it's current "gains", and there's real doubt Ukraine can sustain even that effort. If a formal resolution doesn't happen before then, a de facto one may well have taken shape.
Posted by: rhomboid at March 14, 2023 06:42 PM (OTzUX)

There has been a picking up of the pace in the Donbass offensives around the very strongly fortified towns we paid Ukraine to build so they could shell their Russian countrymen pre war. Two of them could be pocketed in days, or reserves will have to be sent to patch up the line. And there is still little sign of the bulk of the troops called back into service in the fall on the Russian side, still in training or reserve.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 06:46 PM (eoQWY)

166 Kurds are both Sunni and Sufi. But the point is , they are distinct from thetrest of the arabs in Iraq.

Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 06:46 PM (V13WU)

167 163 Unless there's a GOP ballot harvesting program setup to collect 300M ballots, all arguments about Trump vs. DeSantis are academic.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at March 14, 2023 06:46 PM (Q4IgG)

Agreed

Posted by: It's me donna at March 14, 2023 06:47 PM (bs+z0)

168

Domboss = Dumb-ass.

No Blood for Burisma!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2023 06:47 PM (x0n13)

169 >>>~I think DeSantis is holding out to see what happens to Trump with all the court cases and will chose to run if Trump's candidacy is in jeopardy.~

That just makes DeSantis a coward. Either run and defeat him in an open contest, or step aside. Letting the left do the dirty work is chickenshit."

my favorite is when people just make up a premise out of thin air, and then attack DeSantis based on that premise they just made up out of thin air.

I know a lot of you want to believe DeSantis isn't running because Trump's such a strong candidate obviously you need the field cleared for him, right?

But he's running. Constantly making up reasons why he's not running is silly. He's given every indication he's running and people are reporting he's privately said that he's definitely running.

Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:47 PM (BvUNN)

170 "Putin and his circle keep claiming that their ultimate goal is to cleanse the whole of Ukraine from fascism."

Gosh, you'd think the Left would be all in favor of him, then, given how much they love Antifa

Posted by: FeatherBlade at March 14, 2023 06:47 PM (AWwA/)

171 166 Kurds are both Sunni and Sufi. But the point is , they are distinct from thetrest of the arabs in Iraq.
Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 06:46 PM (V13WU)

"No whey!"

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2023 06:47 PM (x0n13)

172 If we didn't learn anything else from Trump's term, we learned that

The Bureaucracy will do what "It" wants to do.

Remember when that fat fk testified before Congress that he was butt hurt about Trump's Ukraine phone call went against the "consensus?" Or the dickhead from DoD that said they ignored Trump's order to leave Syria?

Whomever wins has got to be willing to burn these fks down or this all a big circle jerk.

Posted by: weirdflunky at March 14, 2023 06:47 PM (cknjq)

173 I'd be the first person to admit the FJB admin has done a poor job of giving rationale for the war. Agreed.

The reason is because if Ukraine falls Russia has larger ambitions. Now you can say you are happy to fight them later when NATO treaties require it - which few who oppose the support of Ukraine have mentioned at all. Or you can say Putin is just trying to gather all the Russian peoples together, wherever they are and once he has the Donbass and southern Ukraine under control he's going to stop. This of course fails to recognize he won't stop because he hasn't stopped.

So unless someone has a way to reprogram the test ala Cpt James T. Kirk at starfleet, the "I'm not interested in Ukraine" side needs to come up with a better reason of hating it outside the fact that it's a huge money laundering scheme in addition to sending weapons. And of course, everything DC does is a money laundering scheme - so that doesn't count.

Posted by: Black JEM at March 14, 2023 06:47 PM (UVyKP)

174 "Are there any other lessons from history about war?"

How 'bout Senators' sons first; then the bankers' sons; then the ivy leagues' sons; then the industrialists' sons, etc.,

Posted by: Russkilitlover at March 14, 2023 06:47 PM (iyVGU)

175 Enough. If we have no reason to "Declare War" then stay the hell out. No more bullshit talk.

Yeah, its pathetic how its working now. How many countries do we have soldiers on the ground, active in? It was like 30 last time I checked. No war has been declared since WW2. But we've been militarily active in how many nations since then? We've fought how many effective wars?

Enough.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 06:47 PM (0hOvj)

176 He seems to be trying to cobble together some upper class and high upper middle class GOPe and then neo-con voting coalition. Idk how that gets even 30mil votes. Idk.

Posted by: Thesokorus at March 14, 2023 06:33 PM (1ais2)

This is nonsense. I get it...you hate DeSantis because he isn't your god...Trump.

But try to make more sense next time.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 14, 2023 06:47 PM (BW6mX)

177 No Jarvanka is a great plus on DeSantis' side.
Posted by: Maj. Healey
+++

Trump's 2024 message is basically this time he promises not to let his son-in-law and favorite kid run things anymore.

Posted by: Kukui at March 14, 2023 06:48 PM (lTw6i)

178 Oh, good. I always enjoy hen people whose nic I've never seen before come just to engage in Trump/ DeSantis wars./s
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 14, 2023 06:38 PM (FUVRY)

1. I didn't realize you had to have a known nick to post here.

2. I remember when you a new person here. I remember how you allowed people to think you were a male.

3. Maybe you should ask ace to have comment registration so your delicate sensibilities aren't annoyed.

Posted by: Another Nick You've never seen before at March 14, 2023 06:48 PM (89Sog)

179 >>>I just don't see how Ron moves the ball in the contest with the GOPe. And that's really all that matters.

how did Trump do on that score, working with noted MAGA stalwarts Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell?

Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:48 PM (BvUNN)

180 >>>The US needs regime change more then Russia does.

>The US needs regime change because the Green New Deal is being held up by renegades like Putin.

Withdraw from NATO, renegotiate with the EU, defund the UN, and the Green New Deal and the cult of Climate Change will fade the fuck away into the anus of history.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at March 14, 2023 06:49 PM (Jg7EG)

181 So? So let's dance!

*starts up "Any Way You Want It" from Journey*

Posted by: Al Czervik at March 14, 2023 06:49 PM (4I/2K)

182 So were the killings. It has fallen out of the news, shockingly, but prior to the war with Russia the Ukrainian government was at war with ethnic Russians in the Donbas region. Estimates are that between 10,000 and 15,000 were killed.

You don't hear much about that these days.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 14, 2023 06:45 PM (ZLI7S)

The main reason most of the fighting in the summer and fall and now are where they are is that Russia wants to get the cities in the Donbas out of Ukrainian artillery range, since they still lob shells regularly into residential zones in the capital city despite having better targets in a military sense available.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 06:49 PM (eoQWY)

183 The reason is because if Ukraine falls Russia has larger ambitions.

Yes he does, but none of them remotely justify US war with Russia.

Kurds are both Sunni and Sufi

And a weird version of Christianity. They don't fit any of the other categories, they're just Kurd.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 06:49 PM (0hOvj)

184 I'd recommend they pull up Twitter and follow the guy that posts picture after picture of young men and women, most killed in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan. Some are as young as 18. It will make you sick and on Team No Mo War.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at March 14, 2023 06:49 PM (6lj/r)

185 But he's running. Constantly making up reasons why he's not running is silly. He's given every indication he's running and people are reporting he's privately said that he's definitely running.

Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:47 PM (BvUNN)

I put myself in the camp of why would he chance the run - he can't win the general if he wins the primary, no GOP can. But I'm inclined to believe he is going with the time is now calculation. So yeah, ace, I agree, he's running.

Posted by: Black JEM at March 14, 2023 06:49 PM (UVyKP)

186 Didn't we best Grenada?
And Panama? And the Dominican Republic even. And Ruby Ridge and Waco.

Posted by: torabora
-----
Also, the storming of the Paul Stone redoubt.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 14, 2023 06:50 PM (XsjQp)

187 >>>So? So let's dance!
*starts up "Any Way You Want It" from Journey*
Posted by: Al Czervik

lol

Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:50 PM (BvUNN)

188 How many countries do we have soldiers on the ground, active in?

I was reading about an ambushed that left a few American soldiers dead in west Africa in 2017.

There was no reason for them to be there.
There was no response to the treachery that got them killed (they were setup by some locals off course)

Either go destroy every village held by the Islamists by air or leave them alone and let the locals deal with them. Stop sending American soldiers to get shot at.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 14, 2023 06:50 PM (lc5cP)

189 Breaking News: Chuck Norris has admitted to using stunt doubles in his movies.

But only for the crying parts.

Posted by: Moron News Service at March 14, 2023 06:50 PM (a3Q+t)

190 LOL, keep lying and claiming Trump didn't take all the same money. You're just pissed because a lot of Trump's former donors are moving to DeSantis.

But it was okay when Trump took money from HIS "backers," right?

't fuck out of here.
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:44 PM (BvUNN)

Ace. Those backers proved themselves my opponents by doing DJT dirty. If DJT took their money I would drop his enormous enourmous ass in a heartbeat.

They took the mask off and Ron then took their $$$$.

What is the coalition Ron creates? How many votes does he get? How does he keep the DEM under that. It took 80mil to beat DJT. How does Ron pull the Rube Goldberg to depress turnout to a level low enough for him yo win?

Posted by: Thesokorus at March 14, 2023 06:50 PM (1ais2)

191 >>>Did he thread the needle? I dunno, I suspect Trump's most zealous supporters will claim he's "being a globalist" or something.

I liked what the Meatball said policy-wise. Not to sound like a zealot or anything (or maybe I do), but I would excuse Trump's ambiguity, if he is doing what I think he is. When it comes time to negotiate with Putin, we don't want to have turned over all our cards and leave ourselves in a position where we are locked into a policy and Putin knows it.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 14, 2023 06:50 PM (gv7Yb)

192 Our biggest problem is that pur elecare rigged.

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at March 14, 2023 06:50 PM (fUnHJ)

193 If Frum, Graham, and Kinnzinger are for it, then I am against it.

Unless those lardasses unass themselves to risk having their asses shot off by the Russians.

Then I might reconsider.

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 14, 2023 06:50 PM (AtRkB)

194 You think DeSantis won't have to work with those folks?

Posted by: Notsothoreau at March 14, 2023 06:51 PM (6lj/r)

195 I know a lot of you want to believe DeSantis isn't running because Trump's such a strong candidate obviously you need the field cleared for him, right?

That's not what I meant.. I don't think Trump is unbeatable... I honestly wish he had decided to retire... Of course I will vote for him or DeSantis . Not that it matters I'm in CA.

Posted by: It's me donna at March 14, 2023 06:51 PM (bs+z0)

196 >@AsaHutchinson

Who?

> @AmbJohnBolton

Seriously? Like, he thinks he might actually be nominated? Or is he pulling a Bernie-style "plan to lose, but still collect piles of sweet, sweet campaign donation loot"?

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at March 14, 2023 06:51 PM (bW8dp)

197 Those aren't real Nazis. Their leader is Jewish. I think they just think the Nazi regalia is super cool. They just wear the skin of Nazis.

Posted by: torabora at March 14, 2023 06:51 PM (OUiUM)

198 The reason is because if Ukraine falls Russia has larger ambitions.

Yes he does, but none of them remotely justify US war with Russia.
==
Those larger ambitions will result in a US - Russian engagement. So, pay them now - with Ukrainian blood - or pay them later with our own. You seem to think we should pay with ours.

Posted by: Black JEM at March 14, 2023 06:51 PM (UVyKP)

199 The reason is because if Ukraine falls Russia has larger ambitions.

Like what? Giving up Manchuria to China?

Russia right now is a demographically challenged third world dictatorship with nukes.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 14, 2023 06:51 PM (yQpMk)

200 Only DeSantis could go to Iowa.

Posted by: Spock at March 14, 2023 06:52 PM (63Dwl)

201 >>>I just don't see how Ron moves the ball in the contest with the GOPe. And that's really all that matters.

how did Trump do on that score, working with noted MAGA stalwarts Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell?
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:48 PM (BvUNN)

Trump has an edge in his star power to do a face to face summit to end the war if it were still going on, but both will have massive problems with the deep state neocons and other vermin.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 06:52 PM (eoQWY)

202 thinkin' a lot of us could get behind this and push -

https://is.gd/NxpBST

it's Mark Steyn, really!

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - we are being gaslighted 24/365 at March 14, 2023 06:52 PM (VohFI)

203 >>>I liked what the Meatball said policy-wise. Not to sound like a zealot or anything (or maybe I do), but I would excuse Trump's ambiguity, if he is doing what I think he is.

that's fine but I can't abide accepting Trump's ambiguity and then turning around and saying "But DeSantis didn't lay down an absolute statement, so he's a weasel and a pawn of his 'globalist backers' "

this is such a dumb talking point that Trump's paid online influencers are pumping out there

Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:52 PM (BvUNN)

204 elecare

*elections

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at March 14, 2023 06:52 PM (fUnHJ)

205 With wind not letting up getting tablet and phone charged in case power goes out

Posted by: Skip at March 14, 2023 06:52 PM (xhxe8)

206 Oh, good. I always enjoy hen people whose nic I've never seen before come just to engage in Trump/ DeSantis wars./s

Yeah, every time this topic arises, a half dozen trolls show up to scream and shout and stamp their feet about one or the other candidate.

Look at the comments, 90% of the people here are like "eh, either one seems fine, but they won't win anyway". That's the only sane reaction. There's basically no difference policy-wise between Trump and DeSantis. The only possible reasons for choosing one angrily and absolutely over the other that I can come up with are:

1) just a troll here to cause trouble.
2) Trying to weaken one candidate or another for pay
3) Mindless cheerleading for a hero chosen without reason or logic

None of these are... shall we say, positive.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 06:52 PM (0hOvj)

207 Trump or DeSantis. Either one will do. There are no other alternatives.

Posted by: tubal at March 14, 2023 06:52 PM (PCK5/)

208 Our biggest problem is that pur elecare rigged.
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at March 14, 2023 06:50 PM (fUnHJ)

pul elecare rigged is the wurst !

Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 06:52 PM (V13WU)

209 Walking right into WWIII . Always enjoyed The Guns of August, setting forth how because of interlocking alliances, the big business of war, and the decrepit bureaucratized governments no one could get off the trains as they headed for collision. Can't see much different here,only the technology is different from pre WW I. Don't think Biden will be able to claim he kept the US out of war, like Wilson. Spit

Posted by: Smell the Glove at March 14, 2023 06:52 PM (ZPsfc)

210 149 you don’t mean all those people with a Ukrainian flag in their Twitter handle should actually understand what they heck is really going on, do you? That could really gum up a great virtue signal op!

Posted by: Piper at March 14, 2023 06:52 PM (ZdaMQ)

211 we have too much that needs doing at home. We're too far in debt. We have a border right here at home that needs protecting

And we have a culture that is imploding before our very eyes.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 14, 2023 06:53 PM (Xrfse)

212 Answer honestly.

1) DeSantis loses the GOP primary to Trump. Does he run 3rd party and hand Biden the election?

2) Trump loses to DeSantis in a GOP primary (and loses fair and square). Does he go quietly? Does he claim deep state fraud? Does he do everything he can to hobble DeSantis and help Biden in the election?

Posted by: Kukui at March 14, 2023 06:53 PM (lTw6i)

213 so that doesn't count.
Posted by: Black JEM

go fight then

Posted by: x at March 14, 2023 06:53 PM (ZBPE2)

214 > I think they just think the Nazi regalia is super cool.

Well, they did have Hugo Boss in charge of that.

On the other hand, there's that rule of thumb that the side with the fanciest uniforms almost always loses.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at March 14, 2023 06:53 PM (bW8dp)

215 how did Trump do on that score, working with noted MAGA stalwarts Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell?
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:48 PM (BvUNN)

Not very well. We know what they are now. Not much else. And he is trying and turned the entire GOP base against them.

What is Ron going to do? Serious question. If I thought he were actually against them, I would seriously consider backing him.

Posted by: Thesokorus at March 14, 2023 06:53 PM (1ais2)

216 I'd recommend they pull up Twitter and follow the guy that posts picture after picture of young men and women, most killed in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan. Some are as young as 18. It will make you sick and on Team No Mo War.

If we go to war we should be focused on destroying our enemies with whatever weapons keep our people safest.

This bullshit of sending American ground pounders to get shot because we want to win hearts and minds is stupid and has never worked. Which means the people implementing those policies know they won't work either.

How did we win in WWII? We killed so many Germans and Japanese that they decided our terms were reasonable. And that is the way we should fight every war...but those wars should be rare.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 14, 2023 06:53 PM (lc5cP)

217 >>>That's not what I meant.. I don't think Trump is unbeatable... I honestly wish he had decided to retire... Of course I will vote for him or DeSantis . Not that it matters I'm in CA.

oh sorry, I didn't know that was you who said that, I apologize. I would have still disagreed but I wouldn't have been so aggressive in tone.

Apologies, and I get your meaning. But I disagree.

Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:53 PM (BvUNN)

218 When Trump tries to get on the ballot there will be states that will refuse to print him on their ballot.

He will sue. Nothing will be done about the matter.

Posted by: torabora at March 14, 2023 06:53 PM (OUiUM)

219 Posted by: Kukui at March 14, 2023 06:48 PM (lTw6i)

Right! keep the Jooos out this time!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo...anti-Semite at March 14, 2023 06:53 PM (BW6mX)

220 for those in the Desantis or Trump crowd, we can all be unified by the common bond that Pence is a pederast sucker of cock

and his wife is a tranny

Posted by: The Unvaxxed and Unmasked Ranger - Longing to Lie in Zooey Deschanel's Bosom for Comfort at March 14, 2023 06:54 PM (VTu1l)

221 >>The reason is because if Ukraine falls Russia has larger ambitions.

You're actually going to have to prove that not just assert it. I find the idea that Putin is going to move on another country after Ukraine laughable. There were specific reasons he went into Ukraine and they were largely actions by NATO.

I don't hate Ukraine although I do hate some of the corrupt leaders of the country. But I see no reason to continue protecting Ukraines borders while ours are wide open and inflation is through the roof.

America First isn't just a slogan. It should be the entire focus of our government.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 14, 2023 06:54 PM (ZLI7S)

222 https://tinyurl.com/4t349ywv
20 Tweets from Bad Blue-I got your backlog right here

Posted by: Skip at March 14, 2023 06:54 PM (xhxe8)

223 Those larger ambitions will result in a US - Russian engagement.

LOL no, none of them have anything to do with something that attacks us directly. Russia does not want war with the US nor will they attack NATO. But I give you points for creativity.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 06:54 PM (0hOvj)

224 Yeah I'd say "territorial dispute" is a bit mild. More like "attempted annexation"

Posted by: mikethemoose at March 14, 2023 06:55 PM (AmpGx)

225 so that doesn't count.
Posted by: Black JEM

go fight then
==
I'd prefer no US boys go. Hence my position. You seem to want us to go - just a bit later.

Posted by: Black JEM at March 14, 2023 06:55 PM (UVyKP)

226
Ejecting Russia from internationally recognized Ukrainian territory is not the same thing as UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER.

Posted by: comradearthur at March 14, 2023 06:55 PM (/P8Pv)

227 The reason is because if Ukraine falls Russia has larger ambitions.
Posted by: Black JEM at March 14, 2023 06:47 PM (UVyKP)

I disagree. The "Domino Theory" just doesn't work in this part of the world. What are Russia's larger ambitions?
Russia is protecting it's borderlands from NATO and Global Homo expansion. We should be doing the same.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at March 14, 2023 06:55 PM (R/m4+)

228 The reason is because if Ukraine falls Russia has larger ambitions.

Yes he does, but none of them remotely justify US war with Russia.
==
Those larger ambitions will result in a US - Russian engagement. So, pay them now - with Ukrainian blood - or pay them later with our own. You seem to think we should pay with ours.
Posted by: Black JEM at March 14, 2023 06:51 PM (UVyKP)

Putin has no ambitions in Europe proper, though he'd probably do a better job ruling them that they do. He cares about his country, unlike them. He's going to trade across land routes and look East and South.

And bleeding Russia white, if that is your theory is already not happening. The casualty ratio is far in Russia's favor and they are incorporating more Russians and industry into their country than they are losing.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 06:55 PM (eoQWY)

229 My grandfather fought to liberate the world from Hitler.

Vlad Putin is no Hitler. So talk about complete and utter dreck. And these people just 'know' they are the smart ones... and this is how we got into the Great War because everyone in charge thought they knew what they were doing and it would go perfectly. For them.

Instead it went pear shaped and totally altered Europe. We will be lucky if it only alters Europe this time.

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 14, 2023 06:55 PM (AtRkB)

230 1) DeSantis loses the GOP primary to Trump. Does he run 3rd party and hand Biden the election?
2) Trump loses to DeSantis in a GOP primary (and loses fair and square). Does he go quietly? Does he claim deep state fraud? Does he do everything he can to hobble DeSantis and help Biden in the election?

yes and yes. which is why DeSantis only really wins if he wins so decisively that Trump is neutralized as this kind of spoiler threat.

but I really don't like being held to blackmail by trump, just like I don't like it when anyone else does it. Yes, Trump will take his ball and run home and tacitly support the Democrats. Is this a reason to support him? I don't think so, but I know he'll be playing this card.

Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:55 PM (BvUNN)

231 I find the idea that Putin is going to move on another country after Ukraine laughable.

Putin is already going after the Republic of Moldova.

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 06:56 PM (84jHt)

232 The reason is because if Ukraine falls Russia has larger ambitions.

Russia would lose one on one against Poland. Without any help from the US.

Perhaps they could invade the Baltic states or Finland if they wanted to pull in a bunch of non-Russians into Russia which...err...makes no sense.

But if our European friends are worried about that I'm sure Germany and France spending 5-10% of their GDP for a couple of years would make sure that will never happen anyway.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 14, 2023 06:56 PM (lc5cP)

233 elecare

*elections

I figured you have a cat that walked across your keyboard. Lol.

Posted by: Bosk at March 14, 2023 06:57 PM (ZVuYy)

234
The reason is because if Ukraine falls Russia has larger ambitions. Now you can say you are happy to fight them later when NATO treaties require it - which few who oppose the support of Ukraine have mentioned at all. Or you can say Putin is just trying to gather all the Russian peoples together, wherever they are and once he has the Donbass and southern Ukraine under control he's going to stop. This of course fails to recognize he won't stop because he hasn't stopped.

Posted by: Black JEM at March 14, 2023 06:47 PM (UVyKP)

Russia doesn't have unlimited resources. It doesn't have a young and healthy population.

Ukraine used to basically be a puppet state of theirs as recently as a decade ago, they were under no risk of invasion. Russian military action over the last 20 years has been in response to their position diminishing, not advancing their total territorial control.

The Russians are more desperately trying to hold onto what they have than under the illusion they can build a massive empire.

Not every war is Hitler's invasion of Poland.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 06:57 PM (eYoxG)

235 I will give DeSantis this: he's been way stronger and more direct in his opposition to tranny mangling of children and the groomers who support it. I am certain Trump doesn't like them either but he hasn't been as strong on the topic.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 06:57 PM (0hOvj)

236 I thought Ron D was a no go due to his love of Nickleback? Didn't Ron D also tear off a mattress tag?

Posted by: Blake - semi lurker at large at March 14, 2023 06:57 PM (2YtOq)

237 149 you don’t mean all those people with a Ukrainian flag in their Twitter handle should actually understand what they heck is really going on, do you? That could really gum up a great virtue signal op!
Posted by: Piper at March 14, 2023 06:52 PM (ZdaMQ)

Have you noticed that Uke flags in Twitter handles are becoming quite scarce? The only time I see Twitter is if it gets linked here, and it used to be damned near every Twat what twitted had a Uke flag in his/her handle. Now, you might have to view a half-dozen Twitter links to see one Uke flag.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 14, 2023 06:57 PM (tkR6S)

238 Yeah I'd say "territorial dispute" is a bit mild. More like "attempted annexation"
Posted by: mikethemoose at March 14, 2023 06:55 PM (AmpGx)

They have already annexed the Donbass and Kherson and the Azov sea coastline. They are as much Russian as anything else by diplomatic precedent, the same way that the US detached Kosovo from Serbia.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 06:57 PM (eoQWY)

239 If Trump in drag held a Children's Story Hour would that get the left to approve of him?

Posted by: torabora at March 14, 2023 06:57 PM (OUiUM)

240 Trump loses to DeSantis in a GOP primary (and loses fair and square). Does he go quietly?

*************

I absolutely believe Trump would support DeSantis if he won the primary and not run third party. All his bloviating now is chest thumping bullshit. Theyre too much aligned on policy as it is.

However, if someone like Haley (lolz) or Bolton (double lolz) should somehow win the nomination, fuck yes he would run third party. He will be in full blown burn down the party mode then.

Posted by: The Unvaxxed and Unmasked Ranger - Longing to Lie in Zooey Deschanel's Bosom for Comfort at March 14, 2023 06:58 PM (VTu1l)

241 I'll vote for Trump or DeSantis, but if DeSantis becomes the nominee I just hope we don't have people that are still on the Right turning into Never DeSantis.
Time will tell.

Posted by: redridinghood at March 14, 2023 06:58 PM (NpAcC)

242 Putin has no ambitions in Europe proper, though he'd probably do a better job ruling them that they do.

Looking at the Netherlands right now its hard to argue that point.

Yeah Vlad is a despot that wants his 10% but outside of that he's pretty reasonable.

Europe's despots want at least as much graft and reduce their populations to serfdom. If they don't just replace them first.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 14, 2023 06:58 PM (lc5cP)

243 What country or territory can pooty poot go for next that isn't already ib nato and subject to article 5?

Do you honestly think he'll start wwIV over estonia?

Posted by: I'll take what is no for a hunnert, alex at March 14, 2023 06:58 PM (89Sog)

244 >>>. I am certain Trump doesn't like them either but he hasn't been as strong on the topic.

i'll wait until Trump makes definitive statements before crediting him with that position.

Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:58 PM (BvUNN)

245 these new name neocons agree, someone should fight, but not them.

Posted by: x at March 14, 2023 06:58 PM (ZBPE2)

246 Who wants to read Russian DM response to that drone incident ? Ok, they say that UAV was flying without an active transponder in violation of international something something. They also claim that they did not come into contact with it, that the drone lost altitude (on its own I presume) and collided with water.

Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 06:59 PM (V13WU)

247 Greg Abbott also responded. I guess maybe he's real longshot candidate.

He is not going to take this sitting down!

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 14, 2023 06:59 PM (BRHaw)

248 Putin is already going after the Republic of Moldova.
Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 06:56 PM (84jHt)

He will have to fight his way through Ukraine with just Transnistria for an ally.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 14, 2023 06:59 PM (yQpMk)

249 "Lindsey Graham
@LindseyGrahamSC
To those who believe that Russia's unprovoked and barbaric invasion of Ukraine is not a priority for the United States -- you are missing a lot."

Just like you miss a lot because your such a short, puny, paunchy munchkin, dunce.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 14, 2023 06:59 PM (mMqP+)

250 Greg Abbott also responded. I guess maybe he's real longshot candidate.

His war machine will roll to Moscow if needed.

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 14, 2023 06:59 PM (BRHaw)

251 *looks around*

*leaves quietly*

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - we are being gaslighted 24/365 at March 14, 2023 06:59 PM (VohFI)

252 Those larger ambitions will result in a US - Russian engagement. So, pay them now - with Ukrainian blood - or pay them later with our own.

---

hahaha

Posted by: Remember when BBC reported WTC7 had fallen due to fire 20 minutes before it collapsed? at March 14, 2023 06:59 PM (/BX3R)

253 Posted by: Another Nick You've never seen before at March 14, 2023 06:48 PM (89Sog)

Stop whining. As far as letting everyone think I was male, gee, I didn't give out too much personal information. When
I first arrived and that would be different
From anyone else exactly how,but I'm delighted to know you've been following me for 14 years here. The only time I have change my handle is when I've pretended to be Hillary or Biden or a relative of Mary cloggenstein and I think people figured out ii wasn't actually Biden or Hillary or Mary cloggesteins sister or brother.

And it is of course true that some people only show up for the Trump/DeSantis wars . If you haven't I apologize

Adios.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 14, 2023 06:59 PM (qbIBD)

254 2) Trump loses to DeSantis in a GOP primary (and loses fair and square). Does he go quietly? Does he claim deep state fraud? Does he do everything he can to hobble DeSantis and help Biden in the election?

Posted by: Kukui at March 14, 2023 06:53 PM (lTw6i)

Fair and square? He goes gracefully. No doubt. Ahistorical to allege otherwise. But he'll fight if it was not fair. And destroy the GOP happily if it isn't. And Fox News saying it is fair, or Stirewalt saying it is fair, or Mitch saying it is fair isn't enough.

Posted by: Thesokorus at March 14, 2023 06:59 PM (1ais2)

255 yes and yes. which is why DeSantis only really wins if he wins so decisively that Trump is neutralized as this kind of spoiler threat.

but I really don't like being held to blackmail by trump, just like I don't like it when anyone else does it. Yes, Trump will take his ball and run home and tacitly support the Democrats. Is this a reason to support him? I don't think so, but I know he'll be playing this card.

Posted by: ace
+++

It was not a pro-Trump talking point, just the opposite. It shows its all about him, not the country.

And I absolutely dont believe for one minute DeSantis will run 3rd party if he doesnt get the nom. he'll bow out.

Trump will threaten a 3rd party run this from Day 1.

It's really just about how do we off ramp Trump.

i'm sort of resigned that Trump will screw one more very winnable election for us.

Posted by: Kukui at March 14, 2023 06:59 PM (lTw6i)

256 Posted by: Black JEM at March 14, 2023 06:55 PM (UVyKP)

Russia may have larger ambitions but that doesn't mean that they have the capacity to succeed, or even attempt them.

They invaded Ukraine more than one year ago and are still fighting.

That tells me that they are severely limited in the scope of their ambition.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 14, 2023 07:00 PM (BW6mX)

257 To those who believe that Russia's unprovoked and barbaric invasion of Ukraine is not a priority for the United States -- you are missing a lot."

Hey Miss Lindsay, you could always go sign up.

No...? Well I guess you are missing a lot.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 14, 2023 07:00 PM (lc5cP)

258 @236

>>I thought Ron D was a no go due to his love of Nickleback? Didn't Ron D also tear off a mattress tag?

It's even worse than was thought, Ron DeSantis has the lyrics to Operation Mind Crime tattooed on his lower back.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at March 14, 2023 07:00 PM (up/3i)

259 Greg Abbott also responded. I guess maybe he's real longshot candidate.

I think his campaign has some wheels!

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 14, 2023 07:00 PM (BRHaw)

260 Spoilers:

It's the Cuban Missile Crisis again.

And we decided to be the bad guys.

Posted by: Remember when BBC reported WTC7 had fallen due to fire 20 minutes before it collapsed? at March 14, 2023 07:00 PM (/BX3R)

261 DeSantis is correct... that portion which now belongs to Ukraine, has often belonged to Russia, even before the Soviet Union.

It is majority Russian, and most of them speak Russian. They were in revolt because of what the Uke government was doing... things like outlawing their language.

They voted to become part of Russia. It is by definition a territorial dispute.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 14, 2023 07:00 PM (oHd/0)

262 They also claim that they did not come into contact with it, that the drone lost altitude (on its own I presume) and collided with water.
Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 06:59 PM (V13WU)

Normally I would laugh at that but I can't believe anything the DOD or State Dept. says so... Maybe ?

Posted by: It's me donna at March 14, 2023 07:00 PM (bs+z0)

263 Now, you might have to view a half-dozen Twitter links to see one Uke flag.

Yeah the fad is fading, but they haven't figured out what the next THING is that they have to sign on to yet.

i'll wait until Trump makes definitive statements before crediting him with that position.

Yeah its just a guess, I don't know if he's sounded off on it at all. I do know he's a big rainbow flag friend and supporter of homosexual marriage. The guy is, at his core, a NY moderate leftist but I think his wife is steering him in good directions.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 07:00 PM (0hOvj)

264 There were specific reasons he went into Ukraine and they were largely actions by NATO.

****************

Not just that, but the consensus was that he would conquer Ukraine in like a week. I can't see him finally getting some parts of Ukraine and then immediately embroiling himself in another quagmire of a war for years yet again.

Posted by: The Unvaxxed and Unmasked Ranger - Longing to Lie in Zooey Deschanel's Bosom for Comfort at March 14, 2023 07:00 PM (VTu1l)

265 235 I will give DeSantis this: he's been way stronger and more direct in his opposition to tranny mangling of children and the groomers who support it. I am certain Trump doesn't like them either but he hasn't been as strong on the topic.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 06:57 PM (0hOvj)

He certainly hasn't been as vocal. Reversing Obama's pro-tranny stuff in schools was good. There is the question of what the President's role beyond that is and how to affect the issue though. If DeSantis could figure out a way to do so, that'd be a novel differentiator for his platform.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 07:01 PM (eYoxG)

266 The only way the US in Russia end up in a war is if Biden drags us into the Ukraine conflict.

The best ways to minimize that are:

1) Remove Biden
2) Get out of the conflict

And bonus points for getting out of the conflict, we can pressure Ukraine to go to the peace table and end the war

Posted by: 18-1 at March 14, 2023 07:01 PM (lc5cP)

267 145 How can you tell if you have sous vided a Ukrainian? They're already grey-ish.
Posted by: rickb223 at March 14, 2023 06:27 PM

So the comment boxes here have been sous vided??!?
Posted by: Duncanthrax
___

You have to drop them in a hot pan for the maillard reaction to give them the appetizing browning.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at March 14, 2023 07:01 PM (fs1hN)

268 They invaded Ukraine more than one year ago and are still fighting.

If it had not been for the massive money, arms, and intelligence support from the west, they'd have been steamrolled within 6 months. Our "advisors" and such are keeping Ukraine going but barely are accomplishing more than a standoff.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 07:02 PM (0hOvj)

269 ooh, eclaires.

Posted by: Infidel at March 14, 2023 07:02 PM (tITEI)

270 Trump will threaten a 3rd party run this from Day 1.

--

Trump should have said "We tried to help the Republicans but they refused, so we're starting our own pro-America party" on January 21st.

But he's not that guy, no matter how much people want him to be. He honorable and plays by the rules. If we learned nothing else during his four years, we learned that.

Posted by: Remember when BBC reported WTC7 had fallen due to fire 20 minutes before it collapsed? at March 14, 2023 07:02 PM (/BX3R)

271 Walking right into WWIII . Always enjoyed The Guns of August, setting forth how because of interlocking alliances, the big business of war, and the decrepit bureaucratized governments no one could get off the trains as they headed for collision. Can't see much different here,only the technology is different from pre WW I. Don't think Biden will be able to claim he kept the US out of war, like Wilson. Spit
Posted by: Smell the Glove at March 14, 2023 06:52 PM (ZPsfc)

Excellent point.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at March 14, 2023 07:02 PM (R/m4+)

272 Problem is there is no easy way to extract from Ukraine. They have once again (purposely) created a situation that becomes a quagmire. Russia only understands strength, and if you pull out with no conditions, no bueno. As much as I don't support the war in Ukraine, I would now have to hedge on this question as well.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 14, 2023 07:02 PM (mMqP+)

273 Lindsey Graham
@LindseyGrahamSC
To those who believe that Russia's unprovoked and barbaric invasion of Ukraine is not a priority for the United States -- you are missing a lot."

Just like you miss a lot because your such a short, puny, paunchy munchkin, dunce.
Posted by: Marcus T at March 14, 2023 06:59 PM (mMqP+)
******
Lindsey is backing Trump over all the others.

Posted by: redridinghood at March 14, 2023 07:02 PM (NpAcC)

274 Do you honestly think he'll start wwIV over Estonia?

He can move in really quickly, establish a new puppet government, have that government withdraw Estonia from NATO.

Some people will say that's the will of the Estonian people and we should respect it. Just like in Donbass and Crimea.

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:02 PM (84jHt)

275 "Adios."

The feeling is mutual.

Posted by: What's that? You're past your "best if used by date? at March 14, 2023 07:02 PM (89Sog)

276 Putin is building a NATO buffer zone. Because NATO developed serious, uncontrollable and unsustainable appetite. Driven by neocon idiocy and warmongering.
Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 06:33 PM (V13WU)

Driven by neocon idiocy and warmongering, and past and future tranches of US taxpayer money.

Posted by: mrp at March 14, 2023 07:02 PM (rj6Yv)

277 After the Russians defeated Georgia's army they...took the territories they claimed wanted independence and...stopped.

Which is what they claim they want to do in Ukraine. Why wouldn't you expect the same here?

Posted by: 18-1 at March 14, 2023 07:02 PM (lc5cP)

278 Sorry but Abbot is a gutless poll monger.

He could do school choice, kill the fucking Judge of Harris County Hildago for cheating, and cut taxes ut he is a pussified pussy mad boy.

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 14, 2023 07:03 PM (BRHaw)

279 You have to drop them in a hot pan for the maillard reaction to give them the appetizing browning.

I thought the sous-vide folks used a blow torch for that?

Posted by: Bosk at March 14, 2023 07:03 PM (ZVuYy)

280 And we're just supposed to ignore the will of the Ukrainian citizens because some Americans know what's best for them.

Posted by: Remember when BBC reported WTC7 had fallen due to fire 20 minutes before it collapsed? at March 14, 2023 07:03 PM (/BX3R)

281 #222 watch #11

Posted by: Skip at March 14, 2023 07:03 PM (xhxe8)

282
If it had not been for the massive money, arms, and intelligence support from the west, they'd have been steamrolled within 6 months. Our "advisors" and such are keeping Ukraine going but barely are accomplishing more than a standoff.

And tens of thousands of Ukes would still be alive.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 14, 2023 07:03 PM (lc5cP)

283 If Frum, Graham, and Kinnzinger are for it, then I am against it.
Unless those lardasses unass themselves to risk having their asses shot off by the Russians.
Then I might reconsider.
Posted by: Anna Puma at March 14, 2023 06:50 PM

"Shoot them! Shoot them!"
-- Lt. Lady Lindsay, exhorting the Ukes in a trench

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 14, 2023 07:04 PM (a3Q+t)

284 Nood

Posted by: Thanatopsis at March 14, 2023 07:04 PM (bqiMv)

285
Russia would lose one on one against Poland. Without any help from the US.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 14, 2023 06:56 PM (lc5cP)

Russia has already defeated Poland's armor, Poland's jets, and a good number of Polish 'volunteers' from the army fighting in Ukraine. There are several large cemeteries with the dead in them constructed in relative secrecy near the border.

I'm sure Poland's troops are brave as hell, and I know the Ukrainian patriots also fight hard with courage. But Russia is a major power and has a real army, and they have artillery that can blow the crap out of anyone while the infantry waits to clean up the rubble afterward. This isn't the kind of war any army is really ready to fight in Europe.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 07:04 PM (eoQWY)

286 Did somebody say eclair?

Posted by: Michael Moore at March 14, 2023 07:04 PM (iayUP)

287 If it had not been for the massive money, arms, and intelligence support from the west, they'd have been steamrolled within 6 months. Our "advisors" and such are keeping Ukraine going but barely are accomplishing more than a standoff.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 07:02 PM (0hOvj)

We will fight to the last Ukrainian.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at March 14, 2023 07:04 PM (yQpMk)

288 I can't see him finally getting some parts of Ukraine and then immediately embroiling himself in another quagmire of a war for years yet again.

Moldova is a neutral state by its constitution, invading it (sorry, I mean installing a righteous government who would invite the Russian troops in) would actually take less than a week.

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:04 PM (84jHt)

289 "Lindsey is backing Trump over all the others.
Posted by: redridinghood at March 14, 2023 07:02 PM (NpAcC)"

Well then maybe it's time to reconsider. Because Graham has proven he's a weasel.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 14, 2023 07:05 PM (mMqP+)

290 The reason is because if Ukraine falls Russia has larger ambitions.

==

Russia is already LARGE. What Russia wants is to stay NATO. Going around bragging and panning and taking steps to absorb Ukraine and Moldova and Georgia and all and the rest of surrounding states into NATO is asking for it. But you go ahead and spin this neocon yarn about Russia invading Paris to your heart's content.

Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 07:05 PM (V13WU)

291 You have to drop them in a hot pan for the maillard reaction to give them the appetizing browning.

I thought the sous-vide folks used a blow torch for that?
Posted by: Bosk at March 14, 2023 07:03 PM (ZVuYy)

Or a hot pan browning at the end.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 07:05 PM (eoQWY)

292 Greg Abbott also responded. I guess maybe he's real longshot candidate.

Fuck Abbott. May he have a flat on his hot wheels.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 14, 2023 07:05 PM (DQJX0)

293 If it had not been for the massive money, arms, and intelligence support from the west, they'd have been steamrolled within 6 months. Our "advisors" and such are keeping Ukraine going but barely are accomplishing more than a standoff.
- Christopher R. Taylor

Sounds like the same old song, doesn't it?

Posted by: mrp at March 14, 2023 07:05 PM (rj6Yv)

294 Sorry but Abbot is a gutless poll monger.

*****************

true, he never stands up for anything

Posted by: The Unvaxxed and Unmasked Ranger - Longing to Lie in Zooey Deschanel's Bosom for Comfort at March 14, 2023 07:05 PM (VTu1l)

295 Which is what they claim they want to do in Ukraine. Why wouldn't you expect the same here?

I think Putin had bigger plans in mind for Ukraine. I don't think he wanted to conquer it entirely, but I do think he means to topple the US-created government and put up his own puppet government.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 07:05 PM (0hOvj)

296 Russia has already defeated Poland's armor, Poland's jets, and a good number of Polish 'volunteers' from the army fighting in Ukraine. There are several large cemeteries with the dead in them constructed in relative secrecy near the border.

Poland spends more on its military then the Ukrainian GDP.

And its army right how is 10X larger then the Ukes was before the invasion.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 14, 2023 07:05 PM (lc5cP)

297 Problem is there is no easy way to extract from Ukraine. They have once again (purposely) created a situation that becomes a quagmire.

---

Yeah, when you establish multiple bioweapons labs right at a nation's border and the nation decides it's a threat it certainly makes things awkward.

Posted by: Remember when BBC reported WTC7 had fallen due to fire 20 minutes before it collapsed? at March 14, 2023 07:05 PM (/BX3R)

298 being forced to listen to Earache Erikson some afternoons (Dad HAS to listen to local news/weather, and I can't get anyone else on the radio) he Neo-Con/RINO take was Ron basically has the same views as Biden, and all those other RINO's are all wrong about him! UGH!
I heard Tucker read what Ron's views on Ukraine , and it' nothing like what E.E. said

Posted by: ziggggeeee at March 14, 2023 07:05 PM (AsMdZ)

299 243 What country or territory can pooty poot go for next that isn't already ib nato and subject to article 5?

Do you honestly think he'll start wwIV over estonia?
Posted by: I'll take what is no for a hunnert, alex at March 14, 2023 06:58 PM (89Sog)

Putin does not need land... he has more land then he knows what to do with. He does not need resources.

He needs Russians. Which is why when the Ukes started legally discriminating against Ethnic Russians... it became something... then when they rebelled... he eventually intervened.

He does not need to conquer territory... especially from CUSTOMERS.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 14, 2023 07:06 PM (oHd/0)

300 He certainly hasn't been as vocal. Reversing Obama's pro-tranny stuff in schools was good. There is the question of what the President's role beyond that is and how to affect the issue though. If DeSantis could figure out a way to do so, that'd be a novel differentiator for his platform.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 07:01 PM (eYoxG)

I am far far to the right of DJT socially. It makes me queasy that he is so socially liberal. And Ron could run to the right of DJT on social issues. It would help him. But it would hurt him in the general. DJT knows how to win a general and it isn't rightist social policy yet. Sadly. DeSantis would just end up getting fewer votes in the general.

Posted by: Thesokorus at March 14, 2023 07:06 PM (1ais2)

301 Sounds like the same old song, doesn't it?

Yeah it does sound awfully familiar.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 07:06 PM (0hOvj)

302 If Trump in drag did Drag Queen Story Hour it would be the BEST Story Hour ever.

He could tell the story of how the evil leftist witch who lived in a drug house wanted to kill and cook the children after she Overdosed them on drugs made in Chi nah and brought to the drug house by illegal aliens because there wasn't a big beautiful Wall to stop them.

Posted by: torabora at March 14, 2023 07:06 PM (OUiUM)

303 I can't really get worked up over any candidate who doesn't share my guiding principal that the Federal Government is the biggest terrorist threat to the American people and must be dissolved and it's officers put to death.

Short of that, Trump, DeSantis whatever. They both seem slightly better than the rest of the trash.

Trump amuses me more.

Posted by: mugiwara at March 14, 2023 07:07 PM (OSWNV)

304 274 Do you honestly think he'll start wwIV over Estonia?

He can move in really quickly, establish a new puppet government, have that government withdraw Estonia from NATO.

Some people will say that's the will of the Estonian people and we should respect it. Just like in Donbass and Crimea.
Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:02 PM (84jHt)

1. He used to have a puppet government in Ukraine pre-2014. There was obviously no reason to invade and no spark for conflict until the Ukrainian government was overthrown by a coup.
2. Russia hasn't been taking non-Russian territory because that gives them a messy occupation. If Russia today occupied all of Ukraine it would be insanely expensive in manpower and material.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 07:07 PM (eYoxG)

305 >>Lindsey Graham
@LindseyGrahamSC
To those who believe that Russia's unprovoked and barbaric invasion of Ukraine is not a priority for the United States -- you are missing a lot."

It's not really in dispute that in 2014 we helped run a color revolution in Ukraine, took down the duly elected president who was friendly with Russia and installed a government more friendly to the west. We even have Victoria Nuland on tape discussing which Ukrainian pol would get which office. In retaliation Putin took Crimea.

And you, McCain and Biden were 3 of the leading US politicians pushing the whole disaster.

Not missing as much you'd like, Lindsey.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 14, 2023 07:07 PM (ZLI7S)

306 If Trump doesn't get the nom, who cares if he destroys the GOP? They can't win without him anyway.

Posted by: fd at March 14, 2023 07:07 PM (iayUP)

307 294 Sorry but Abbot is a gutless poll monger.
true, he never stands up for anything
Posted by: The Unvaxxed and Unmasked Ranger

Unvaxxed, you are terrible!!! Terrible funny

Posted by: ziggggeeee at March 14, 2023 07:07 PM (AsMdZ)

308 Mic drop, Ace!

Posted by: Lola - free Jacob Chansley at March 14, 2023 07:07 PM (GshMh)

309 Quick Hits is nood.

Posted by: Tuna at March 14, 2023 07:08 PM (gLRfa)

310 I remember back in the early 00s the argument was, sure Saddam Hussein has murdered about a million Iraqis, tried to assassinate an American president, was working with Al Qaeda, and had started multiple aggressive wars but...that's not reason to topple him.

And yet here was are and Pooty Poot supposedly has to go even if it required a nuclear war because he uh...invaded a place that most Americans already thought was part of Russia. Well, and the gay adoption thing

Posted by: 18-1 at March 14, 2023 07:08 PM (lc5cP)

311 I figured you have a cat that walked across your keyboard. Lol.
Posted by: Bosk at March 14, 2023 06:57 PM

Dude. Per the chart that Ace posted last night, you now have to declare the sex the cat identifies as, as it walks across you keyboard.

#BeBetter

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 14, 2023 07:09 PM (a3Q+t)

312 Vivek Ramaswamay's answer has an excellent focus on China, although I don't think outright war on the drug cartels is where his energy will be better focused.

Donald Trump brings the same energy he took to the Abraham Accords and Kim Jong-Un, but Europe is not going to find Ukraine. Their economic losses this winter were severe and they're in no position to help further. I'm sure Trump remembers the Zelensky/ Biden partnership.

DeSantis is taking the "safe" answer, but that's not going to help him see off candidates like Mike Pence or Nikki Haley, who apparently (?) want the neocon approach. And that's a problem for him, because at least a third of the Republican base will only be satisfied with Donald Trump. How does DeSantis plan to get to half without Trump voters or the neos?

Posted by: trev006 at March 14, 2023 07:09 PM (DTm0P)

313 Russia is already LARGE.

Nobody wants to live in Siberia, but many Russian colonists will want to live in Southern Ukraine (Novorossya) if Putin manages to conquer it.
And all of them want to vacation in Crimea.

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:09 PM (84jHt)

314
I am far far to the right of DJT socially. It makes me queasy that he is so socially liberal. And Ron could run to the right of DJT on social issues. It would help him. But it would hurt him in the general. DJT knows how to win a general and it isn't rightist social policy yet. Sadly. DeSantis would just end up getting fewer votes in the general.
Posted by: Thesokorus at March 14, 2023 07:06 PM (1ais2)

I think the anti-tranny stuff has broad appeal, it's just a matter of packaging it coherently into a meaningful policy. That's obvious at the state level, less so at the federal.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 07:09 PM (eYoxG)

315 302 Emceed by Trace Adkins

Posted by: Beto Ochoa at March 14, 2023 07:10 PM (dzZCL)

316 "being forced to listen to Earache Erikson some afternoons"

Five minutes of Errorickson and I want to smash the radio. You have my pity.

Posted by: fd at March 14, 2023 07:10 PM (iayUP)

317 #285
Russia army is mostly poorly trained unmotivated conscripted men from Eastern Russia who are literally cannon fodder.

That doesn't mean they will lose but it doesn't look like they can win.

Posted by: torabora at March 14, 2023 07:11 PM (OUiUM)

318 313 Russia is already LARGE.

Nobody wants to live in Siberia, but many Russian colonists will want to live in Southern Ukraine (Novorossya) if Putin manages to conquer it.
And all of them want to vacation in Crimea.
Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:09 PM (84jHt)

Sevastapol has been a Russian military base for a long time. Russia formally annexing Crimea didn't mean a meaningful change from the pre-2014 situation.

Ukraine is poorer than Russia and was a satellite of theirs. Your claims literally make no sense.

Who are these Russian colonists? Russia is in demographic decline.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 07:11 PM (eYoxG)

319 Posted by: Black JEM at March 14, 2023 06:55 PM (UVyKP)

Russia may have larger ambitions but that doesn't mean that they have the capacity to succeed, or even attempt them.

They invaded Ukraine more than one year ago and are still fighting.

That tells me that they are severely limited in the scope of their ambition.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 14, 2023 07:00 PM (BW6mX)

They only had about 150,000 men fighting under the rules for the SMO, thus a lot of the operations were on the order of bluffs to get to a peace table. Once that was scuppered by the US and UK, the concentration of these troops was to support the Donbass militias. Thus much of the front was held very lightly. This caused the retreats in the fall, but these were more like skirmishing by very light forces, and better to save the men since the political conditions for the raising of additional troops for a tougher war, which is partly visible now.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 07:11 PM (eoQWY)

320 I think the anti-tranny stuff has broad appeal, it's just a matter of packaging it coherently into a meaningful policy. That's obvious at the state level, less so at the federal.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 07:09 PM (eYoxG)

Good points. And DJT is clearly being outdone by Ron there. Also yes re: feds. Unclear what the executive branch has to do with the issue.

Fairly easy for DJT to move right on the trannies. But he is reluctant because of his gays I think. And DJT rarely if ever punches down. Which he prob thinks it is.

Posted by: Thesokorus at March 14, 2023 07:13 PM (1ais2)

321 Russia hasn't been taking non-Russian territory because that gives them a messy occupation.

So what if Russia executes 10,000 Estonians pour encourager les autres, like at Katyn, or takes them to Siberia, and then withdraws, leaving a friendly government behind? That would be pretty clean, right?

Also, by the way, do you know the size of the Russian minority in Estonia? Their rights are being violated right now. Go tell Putin his help is needed!

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:13 PM (84jHt)

322 "I also have to say that this is a very, very craven attempt to appeal to the MAGA base yet again. Once they decide to run for President, they’ve got to get this deplorable base on their side in order to win the primary. That’s what they keep doing over and over again. That includes Trump, of course, the king of all of it and also DeSantis and now Pence because he wants to run for president, and that is a pathetic situation, in my opinion."
-- Joy Behar

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 14, 2023 07:14 PM (a3Q+t)

323 Who are these Russian colonists? Russia is in demographic decline.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 07:11 PM (eYoxG)

There are lots of ethnic Russians in the areas now held by Ukraine. They don't have to move there, and the laws to forbid teaching Russian by Ukraine are one of the cited causes for the SMO. Odessa has lots of Russian nationals too and likely is a target for taking and annexing if the stalemate is broken.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 07:14 PM (eoQWY)

324 #285
Russia army is mostly poorly trained unmotivated conscripted men from Eastern Russia who are literally cannon fodder.

That doesn't mean they will lose but it doesn't look like they can win.
Posted by: torabora at March 14, 2023 07:11 PM (OUiUM)

If this were so, we'd have nothing to fear of them conquering all of Europe, right?

You can't badmouth the Russian hordes AND claim the country is dying AND say we should fear them conquering all before them like Mongols.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 07:17 PM (eoQWY)

325 I saw Pul Elecare open for Los lobos in 88 at the Horseshoe

Posted by: A dude in MI at March 14, 2023 07:17 PM (/6GbT)

326 literally hitler?

more like literally trump, amirite?

after all, according to twitter historians, hitler learned to ...check notes...give speeches from trump. it's true.

Posted by: sockamster, gator at March 14, 2023 07:18 PM (MLrvz)

327 The laws that forbid teaching in minority languages past the 6th grade are too draconian, agreed, but Ukraine passed them only after 5 years of invasion and low-intensity war on its territory.
Perhaps having a war fought on the territory of one's own country for several years can lead to such radicalization. I hope to never find out.
It is not clear to me that such stuff justifies a further armed invasion. However, a clever statesman using clever propaganda can make a casus belli out of anything.

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:18 PM (84jHt)

328 169 >>>~I think DeSantis is holding out to see what happens to Trump with all the court cases and will chose to run if Trump's candidacy is in jeopardy.~

///

but trump's running. and we learned from our consistent democrat friends that you can't politically criminally prosecute people who are ...or might be...running for president.

Posted by: sockamster, gator at March 14, 2023 07:19 PM (MLrvz)

329 Sevastapol has been a Russian military base for a long time. Russia formally annexing Crimea didn't mean a meaningful change from the pre-2014 situation.

Let's be clear, is Russia the same as the Soviet Union? Since otherwise, Sevastopol has only been a Russian base for a couple of decades (and also under the Russian Empire, but in this thread I learned that Putin has no amibitions to restore that).

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:21 PM (84jHt)

330 2. Russia hasn't been taking non-Russian territory because that gives them a messy occupation. If Russia today occupied all of Ukraine it would be insanely expensive in manpower and material.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at March 14, 2023 07:07 PM (eYoxG)

Russia is pretty quiet on the endgame, but I remember hearing a comment that introducing long range missiles and artillery "just meant that the buffer zone would need to be larger" from a Russian official. My guess is Russia would take Odessa and a land bridge to Transnistria to incorporate ethnic Russians, and partition part of the rest for the buffer zone as a client state and let Kiev and the border zone around NATO do what it wants.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 07:22 PM (eoQWY)

331 Sevastapol has been a Russian military base for a long time. Russia formally annexing Crimea didn't mean a meaningful change from the pre-2014 situation.

Let's be clear, is Russia the same as the Soviet Union? Since otherwise, Sevastopol has only been a Russian base for a couple of decades (and also under the Russian Empire, but in this thread I learned that Putin has no amibitions to restore that).
Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:21 PM (84jHt)

Crimea has been Russian since the 1700s at least. Krushchev put Crimea under Ukrainian sector of the USSR in the 50s/60s and when the USSR fell they kept it. I think they even used it after the fall under some sort of lease until after the coup.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 07:25 PM (eoQWY)

332 268 They invaded Ukraine more than one year ago and are still fighting.

If it had not been for the massive money, arms, and intelligence support from the west, they'd have been steamrolled within 6 months. Our "advisors" and such are keeping Ukraine going but barely are accomplishing more than a standoff.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 14, 2023 07:02 PM (0hOvj)

——-

Or Putin wants to go slow in order to keep oil prices high and rake in the money.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at March 14, 2023 07:25 PM (cMXNt)

333 Russia formally annexing Crimea didn't mean a meaningful change from the pre-2014 situation.

There's a difference between leasing a military base to another country and having that country take possession of the base plus a huge region around it.

An obvious example is Panama, but I can think of others.

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:26 PM (84jHt)

334 Crimea has been Russian since the 1700s at least.

The Baltic countries have also been Russian for just as long.

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:27 PM (84jHt)

335 The laws that forbid teaching in minority languages past the 6th grade are too draconian, agreed, but Ukraine passed them only after 5 years of invasion and low-intensity war on its territory.
Perhaps having a war fought on the territory of one's own country for several years can lead to such radicalization. I hope to never find out.
It is not clear to me that such stuff justifies a further armed invasion. However, a clever statesman using clever propaganda can make a casus belli out of anything.
Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:18 PM (84jHt)

The 'invasion' was just last year. And the Nazi battalions were part of the 2014 coup, used to offset the possible sympathy of the army for Russia. Victoria Newland the US ambassador was very clear on this on tapes that were released as she ran the coup.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 07:28 PM (eoQWY)

336 Not to mention Poland and Finland (roughly one century later).

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:28 PM (84jHt)

337 Or Putin wants to go slow in order to keep oil prices high and rake in the money.
Posted by: MAGA_Ken at March 14, 2023 07:25 PM (cMXNt)

The high prices were the elite's smart idea of sanctioning oil. Our elites, not Putin. Word is the Russians were a little surprised how well they withstood western sanctions.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 07:29 PM (eoQWY)

338 The 'invasion' was just last year.

I am referring to the 2014 invasion. And I don't believe for one moment that People's Republics actually represent the will of the people. Probably less than Manchouko represented the will of the Manchurian people.

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:30 PM (84jHt)

339 The Baltic countries have also been Russian for just as long.
Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:27 PM (84jHt)

They did get independence from 1918-1940.

Posted by: Oldcat at March 14, 2023 07:30 PM (eoQWY)

340 339 The Baltic countries have also been Russian for just as long.
Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:27 PM (84jHt)

They did get independence from 1918-1940.

Ukraine was also independent for a couple of years around that time. The Soviets obviously wanted to get both Ukraine and the Baltic countries back. For the Baltic countries it took a bit longer.

So I guess we both agree that Putin sees himself as a new Peter the Great (to whom he has repeatedly compared himself to in public) and wants to reconstitute the Russian Empire?

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:33 PM (84jHt)

341 @oldcat

RUS is going to de-Nazify UKR. This is what they have said. Idk what the word Nazi means to them. Or what de-Nazifying means either. But it doesn't mean leaving Kiev in Banderite or Western hands. I think control of UKR to such an extent that RUS can criminalize effectively whatever they think a Nazi is, is the minimum. More as you say if the missile defense req it.

Posted by: Thesokorus at March 14, 2023 07:34 PM (1ais2)

342 Who are these Russian colonists? Russia is in demographic decline.

Siberia and other northern regions are in demographic decline, but the southern regions (both those populated by Russians and those populated by ethnic minorities) are gaining population. Southern Ukraine (Novorossya) is much more similar to the places that are gaining population (like Soci, Kuban, etc.).

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:39 PM (84jHt)

343 So I guess we both agree that Putin sees himself as a new Peter the Great (to whom he has repeatedly compared himself to in public) and wants to reconstitute the Russian Empire?
Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:33 PM (84jHt)

Much less so than Macron sees himself as a Caesar and restoring the Glories of France.

But yeah, he loves Russia. And to Russians the idea of Russia is a powerful thing. So yeah, Putin would like a terrolitorially expanded RUS. So what?

NATO wants to expand. DC wants global full spectrum dominance.

Blackrock prob wants the whole universe.

Posted by: Thesokorus at March 14, 2023 07:39 PM (1ais2)

344 70 To the neocon and their unlikely friends, the former anti-war liberal activists now turned war hawks, Putin is a paradox

He is an evil, unhinged dictator hell-bent on global domination in his paranoid mind, but also a thoughtful, reasonable, restrained leader who would never use nukes.

Square that circle.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at March 14, 2023 06:28 PM (WentF)
----
You'll have to triangulate the target first.

Posted by: Ciampino - white sauce = besciamella at March 14, 2023 07:40 PM (qfLjt)

345 344 70 To the neocon and their unlikely friends, the former anti-war liberal activists now turned war hawks, Putin is a paradox

He is an evil, unhinged dictator hell-bent on global domination in his paranoid mind, but also a thoughtful, reasonable, restrained leader who would never use nukes.

Square that circle.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at March 14, 2023 06:28 PM (WentF)
----
You'll have to triangulate the target first.
Posted by: Ciampino - white sauce = besciamella at March 14, 2023 07:40 PM (qfLjt)

"What does it even matter at this point?"

Posted by: Thesokorus at March 14, 2023 07:42 PM (1ais2)

346 But yeah, he loves Russia.

I understand that he loves Russia. I like Russian culture. However, I think he's going about it the wrong way: for example, buying those drones from Iran and getting the Iranians to build a drone factory for him. Obviously he does not trust Russian engineers (but he does trust Russian FSB and former KGB people like himself, whom I loathe).

To me, the fact that by occupying Crimea he broke the Helsinki treaty (modifying borders by force) and he shows no sign of stopping is very serious. I obviously don't believe the people who say that he's going to stop at such or such point. Moreover, others will follow his example.

Posted by: PG at March 14, 2023 07:46 PM (84jHt)

347 The interesting thing about DeSantis as a candidate is we went to neighboring high schools and at the same time... he's the only candidate for governor/president where I'm able just straight up ask people, hey, you knew him before he ran for office, what's he really like? and know I'm getting honest answers (colored lately by politics after the fact, of course; he's the devil to Donks now).

I actually looked through my old notes (yes, like Kavanaugh, I have my old shit from high school) to see if I had any run-ins with him on extracurricular activities, but there don't seem to be any.

Posted by: Locarno at March 14, 2023 07:49 PM (Vjom5)

348 Did Gerry Rivers really offer up that furball about Hunter that #fella retwitted?

Gotta be an act not a real comment, right?

Posted by: micky at March 14, 2023 08:12 PM (3byMq)

349 101 Putin is building a NATO buffer zone. Because NATO developed serious, uncontrollable and unsustainable appetite. Driven by neocon idiocy and warmongering.

Posted by: runner at March 14, 2023 06:33 PM (V13WU)
----
Considering that a majority of Western 'leaders' have visited 'Kiev under fire' makes me believe that those that did visit are all involved in money laundering. Those are either their own unofficial retirement funds or the club membership to WEF, no money no WEFfing way you are going to be housed, fed, protected, entertained (hordes of kids) and fu--ed for pleasure. Remember the almost frenetic behavior of the Bill/Hillary duo in the presence of money - the more the better? Suspect they are/were collecting for daughter and baby too.

Posted by: Ciampino - that white sauce = besciamella at March 14, 2023 08:27 PM (qfLjt)

350 16 can't cook a ukrainian

Posted by: ace at March 14, 2023 06:18 PM (BvUNN)
----
Can one cook an Okranian? I'm told they're slimy fellas.

Posted by: Ciampino - that white sauce = besciamella ?? at March 14, 2023 08:41 PM (qfLjt)

351 Ace, Thank you for providing this information and for your analysis. I think your comments on the statements are very helpful and clear.

Posted by: Roland F Hirsch at March 14, 2023 09:00 PM (oMkPq)

352 I have read historians that say WWII was an incredible exception in the history of war, it is almost never a total victory/loss. Usually get a negotiated peace.
I think of 1914, Iraq and Afghanistan.
They count, too.

Posted by: jimmymcnulty at March 14, 2023 09:25 PM (BJgzI)

353 Dessntis is coping President Trump

What a chump

Posted by: Gonzotx at March 14, 2023 11:05 PM (MwHgU)

354 255 yes and yes...

but I really don't like being held to blackmail by trump, just like I don't like it when anyone else does it. Yes, Trump will take his ball and run home and tacitly support the Democrats. Is this a reason to support him? I don't think so, but I know he'll be playing this card.

Posted by: ace
****
Wow. All in against Trump now Ace? You always were a anti-Trump fuck - there was no hiding it. Well, you're wrong about Trump taking his ball home. It'll be his supporters who sit it out - as we did in the midterms because we promised we would after the GOPes stabbed us in the back. We'll sit it a out this time simply to expedite the inevitable. Isn't that what big-talker Ace believes??? Ha - you're all hot air. Cucksantis is a flash in the pan eGOPer who has grown exceptionally brave only because he has reaped the rewards of a massive influx of GOPers due to the pandemic. Even Pence would be a big brave GOPer if he had the backing Ron-boy has. DeSanctimonious would flip eGOP the second he foot crosses the whitehouse threshold. We're not voting for him. So you're right about the blackmail - and jingo GOPers like you will blink first.

Posted by: MikeN at March 15, 2023 09:16 PM (UBEmp)

355 Ꮤow! At last I got a webⅼog from whеre I be
ⅽapable of actually get һelpfսl facts concerning my study and knowledgｅ.

Posted by: susan at March 17, 2023 12:06 AM (irbja)

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