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THE MORNING RANT: If Ukraine Alone Can Repel Russia, Why Are American Troops Still Needed to Protect Germany & Western Europe? (Also, where were you when the Berlin Wall fell?)
Ukraine hasn’t been my thing. The Slavic turf battle going on in eastern Ukraine is just one of the numerous tribal/regional conflicts going on around the world. All of them are awful, with unthinkable suffering, and none of them are worth spilling a single drop of American blood.
But as I’ve also said before, because Vladimir Putin has funded those who pose the greatest threat to my liberty (western anti-petroleum activists) he is an enemy of mine. Putin’s failure to seize more than a sliver of eastern Ukrainian territory may end his days in power, which would be fine by me. My biggest fear now is that bringing the battle to an end is not the desired outcome of those who are who are most enthusiastic about the Ukrainian war, those being the “permanent war” coalition of politicians, intelligence agencies, global money launderers, and defense contractors. But whether or not, there is a cessation of hostilities soon, this little strip of Ukraine (shown in the map below) is all that Russia has been able to conquer before starting to retreat - without any US or NATO troops.
So why are 100,000 US troops still stationed in Europe? Why is NATO even around anymore? Russia couldn’t take Kiev, and its army is already retreating from Kherson, yet Berlin is another 1,000 miles beyond Kherson. Berlin is not at risk of being overrun by Russian troops anytime soon. NATO was created following WWII for the purpose of protecting the free countries of western Europe from the communist bloc countries under Soviet rule. Hastings Ismay is famously credited with stating that the purpose of NATO was "to keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.” The Soviet Union’s “Iron Curtain” around Eastern Europe crumbled in 1989, and the Soviet Union itself dissolved not long thereafter. The communist empire that NATO was created to repel has been gone for 33 years. Ukrainian irregulars are apparently sufficient to keep Russia out. And Germany is keeping itself down. In fact, Germany has become so pacified that President Trump had to hector Germany to even pay its NATO dues. Meanwhile Germany has engaged in national suicide in the name of sustainable energy. Germany is a self-loathing country that couldn’t produce the fuel to mount a blitzkrieg even if it were still a nation that had expansionist desires. Germany is down, Russia is out, and neither of those countries are a military threat to western Europe. It’s been 77 years since WWII ended. Let’s end the occupation and bring our troops home.
Speaking of the fall of the Iron Curtain, do the events of November 1989 still resonate with any of you as one of the epochal moments of your lifetime?
There are rare days when once-in-a-lifetime events happen - “Where were you when…” moments.
For my parents that included Pearl Harbor, VJ Day (“Victory in Japan”
, the JFK assassination, and Apollo 11’s moon landing.
For me (born in the mid-60s) those moments included the Challenger explosion, Black Monday (stock market lost 22% in one day), Y2K (if you’re too young to remember, you cannot believe the hype and fear about the change in millennia), the levees failing in New Orleans after Katrina, and above all else, September 11, 2001.
But there was also was November 9, 1989. That was the VJ Day of my lifetime. I fully expected it to go down in history as the moment of greatest significance of the post-WWII 20th Century.
Do you remember where you were when the Berlin Wall fell, and Eastern Europe was suddenly free of Soviet tyranny?
I was not long out of college, and traveling for my job. Sitting in my motel room that night, I watched the TV in joyful disbelief, trying to fathom that this day had come. I genuinely thought I’d never see this day in my lifetime.
I pondered the immense bravery of Poland’s Lech Walesa, who lit the first match of the rebellion, and from that small flame grew a citizen’s revolt that guns and communists couldn’t contain.
I pondered the persistence and determination of Pope John Paul II, benevolently uplifting Christians trapped behind the Iron Curtain, while subversively kicking out the table legs that supported the evil empire.
I pondered the determination of Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, and Helmut Kohl, who risked their political careers to remain resolute in challenging Soviet strength and hegemony. They rejected pressure from media and opposition parties in their own countries to back off of their battle against communism. NATO had its victory 33 years ago, and it was a triumph for humanity.
Unfortunately for the victors, communist sympathizers now control much of the West, while eastern Europe remains unified in its contempt for communists and the system that oppressed them.
Allowing NATO to exist in perpetuity, but this time as tool for western communists to advance the globalist agenda, is an insult to those who won the cold war against Soviet communism.
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
1
Posted by: Skip's phone at November 25, 2022 11:00 AM (xhxe8)
2
And dutifully called, on to content
Posted by: Skip's phone at November 25, 2022 11:01 AM (xhxe8)
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:01 AM (9KRwM)
4
FIRST!!!!!
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at November 25, 2022 11:02 AM (Zz0t1)
5
This thread is nood, but not monkey.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at November 25, 2022 11:02 AM (Zz0t1)
6
I remember the Berlin Wall falling. I was a young kid, but the Scorpions song "Winds of Change" was everywhere. And they sold chunks of the Berlin Wall even in department stores.
Winning the Cold War was one of those "be careful what you wish for" moments. I preferred that world to the one we have now.
Winning the Cold War was one of those "be careful what you wish for" moments. I preferred that world to the one we have now.
Posted by: Blago at November 25, 2022 11:03 AM (PwNLq)
7
Where Were You on November 9, 1989?
Germany. A British girl and I thought this was the biggest event in recent world history. The Germans we worked with were just groaning, "oh, man, now we gotta pay for these guys". It was a weird.
Went up a few weeks later with a hammer and chisel and got myself some nice souvenirs.
Germany. A British girl and I thought this was the biggest event in recent world history. The Germans we worked with were just groaning, "oh, man, now we gotta pay for these guys". It was a weird.
Went up a few weeks later with a hammer and chisel and got myself some nice souvenirs.
Posted by: t-bird at November 25, 2022 11:03 AM (Sv58p)
8
I was a Sr. in high school. I gave a shit about very little back then.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at November 25, 2022 11:04 AM (Zz0t1)
9
I was living in Munich, Germany when the wall came down. It was such a big deal that we actually got a day off from school (I was a freshman in high school) at the American base...
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at November 25, 2022 11:04 AM (BpYfr)
10
willowed, so I am left talking to myself again...
Posted by: lin-duh at November 25, 2022 11:04 AM (UUBmN)
11
Germany is down, Russia is out, and neither of those countries are a military threat to western Europe.
It’s been 77 years since WWII ended. Let’s end the occupation and bring our troops home.
That would end a tremendous amount of graft from the annual federal budget and will NEVER happen. NEVER.
It’s been 77 years since WWII ended. Let’s end the occupation and bring our troops home.
That would end a tremendous amount of graft from the annual federal budget and will NEVER happen. NEVER.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at November 25, 2022 11:04 AM (Zz0t1)
12
Sorry, but they have admitted there are US troops in Ukraine... and of course will never admit where Green Beret A Teams are... you know, the ones who are trained to help indigenous troops?
If you do not think US troops are all over this... well... here's another Covid 'Vaccine' for ya...
If you do not think US troops are all over this... well... here's another Covid 'Vaccine' for ya...
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 25, 2022 11:05 AM (oHd/0)
13
In terms of territory, Russia's initial war demands were Donetsk (which it currently controls half of) and Luhansk (which it controls roughly all of). The other territory nearby Crimea is a bonus. In terms of pure territorial size, they control more than what they were originally aiming for.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 11:05 AM (eYoxG)
14
I was a Sr. in high school. I gave a shit about very little back then.
Posted by: Sponge
___
That time is a blur for me.
It was around the time I got kicked out of the Army,
Posted by: Sponge
___
That time is a blur for me.
It was around the time I got kicked out of the Army,
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:05 AM (9KRwM)
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 25, 2022 11:06 AM (FVME7)
16
If you do not think US troops are all over this... well... here's another Covid 'Vaccine' for ya...
Posted by: Romeo13
___
Oh, they are.
No doubt.
Posted by: Romeo13
___
Oh, they are.
No doubt.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:06 AM (9KRwM)
17
Where Were You on November 9, 1989?
Destroyer, Persian Gulf... no internet... ergo, didn't know it had happened for weeks.
Destroyer, Persian Gulf... no internet... ergo, didn't know it had happened for weeks.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 25, 2022 11:06 AM (oHd/0)
18
Guess I should get things going. Gotta go visit my brother on our way to NE Texas for the weekend. Its a beating, but a necessity. Wonder what's on my honey-do list this time........
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at November 25, 2022 11:08 AM (Zz0t1)
19
It’s been 77 years since WWII ended. Let’s end the occupation and bring our troops home.
___
Yeah, not gonna happen.
Get rid of the MIC, maybe.
___
Yeah, not gonna happen.
Get rid of the MIC, maybe.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:08 AM (9KRwM)
20
The communist empire that NATO was created to repel has been gone for 33 years.
-------
It apparently moved here.
-------
It apparently moved here.
Posted by: ShainS -- The Humiliation is Part of the Kink at November 25, 2022 11:08 AM (ynBkT)
21
As a child of the Cold War, I fully expected to die killing communists, I just didn't expect them to be my fellow Americans.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 11:09 AM (PY/t0)
Posted by: polynikes at November 25, 2022 11:09 AM (nBhwo)
23
I was a hs sophmore.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at November 25, 2022 11:09 AM (yFgCz)
24
And now, Western commies run NATO.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:09 AM (9KRwM)
25
Have a blessed weekend everyone.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at November 25, 2022 11:09 AM (Zz0t1)
26
As a child of the Cold War, I fully expected to die killing communists, I just didn't expect them to be my fellow Americans.
Posted by: G'rump928
___
Wild, isn't it?
Posted by: G'rump928
___
Wild, isn't it?
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:10 AM (9KRwM)
27
Biden promises to make the trains run on time.
President Biden@POTUS
United States government official
Thanks for your concern, @wsj. To answer your question: yes, the trains are running on time.
President Biden@POTUS
United States government official
Thanks for your concern, @wsj. To answer your question: yes, the trains are running on time.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 25, 2022 11:10 AM (FVME7)
28
22 2040: We should have never withdrawn our presence in Europe. ( 20/20 hindsight phenomenon)
Posted by: polynikes at November 25, 2022 11:09 AM (nBhwo)
It'd amaze me if anyone in 2040 thought the US could sustain a presence in Europe as weak as it will be(if not already in civil war).
Posted by: polynikes at November 25, 2022 11:09 AM (nBhwo)
It'd amaze me if anyone in 2040 thought the US could sustain a presence in Europe as weak as it will be(if not already in civil war).
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 11:10 AM (eYoxG)
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:10 AM (9KRwM)
30
Not sure who is winning in this Ukraine war, seems more stalemate for now, Russia got to a point and now it's going nowhere.
Wrote once read the US has spent more than Russia on the war, not sure if right but quite possible that it's largely pocketed by politicians and arms manufacturers
Wrote once read the US has spent more than Russia on the war, not sure if right but quite possible that it's largely pocketed by politicians and arms manufacturers
Posted by: Skip's phone at November 25, 2022 11:10 AM (xhxe8)
31
President Biden@POTUS
United States government official
Thanks for your concern, @wsj. To answer your question: yes, the trains are running on time.
___
Chilling.
United States government official
Thanks for your concern, @wsj. To answer your question: yes, the trains are running on time.
___
Chilling.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:11 AM (9KRwM)
Posted by: 496 at November 25, 2022 11:11 AM (0Le4j)
33
Biden promises to make the trains run on time.
President Biden@POTUS
United States government official
Thanks for your concern, @wsj. To answer your question: yes, the trains are running on time.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 25, 2022 11:10 AM (FVME7)
That's a euphemism for his bowel movements, isn't it?
President Biden@POTUS
United States government official
Thanks for your concern, @wsj. To answer your question: yes, the trains are running on time.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 25, 2022 11:10 AM (FVME7)
That's a euphemism for his bowel movements, isn't it?
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 11:11 AM (PY/t0)
34
Putin’s failure to seize more than a sliver of eastern Ukrainian territory may end his days in power, which would be fine by me.
The best possible outcome would be a negotiated peace that weakened Putin enough that there would be an orderly transfer of power, with some chance that someone more acceptable to the West would replace him.
The one group of people in the Russian government that have performed well are the rather pro-Western technocrats that have been holding the economy together, as opposed to the military and intelligence services, which have been abject failures, so there is some reason to be hopeful.
The best possible outcome would be a negotiated peace that weakened Putin enough that there would be an orderly transfer of power, with some chance that someone more acceptable to the West would replace him.
The one group of people in the Russian government that have performed well are the rather pro-Western technocrats that have been holding the economy together, as opposed to the military and intelligence services, which have been abject failures, so there is some reason to be hopeful.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:12 AM (KCOCK)
35
Thanks for your concern, @wsj. To answer your question: yes, the trains are running on time.
Do you want to lock that in, Mr. President- is that your final solution?
Do you want to lock that in, Mr. President- is that your final solution?
Posted by: Regis Philbin at November 25, 2022 11:13 AM (Sv58p)
36
Re Ukraine:
Lie back and think of the graft!
This is the one sentence explanation for almost all liberal activities!
Lie back and think of the graft!
This is the one sentence explanation for almost all liberal activities!
Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar (hOUT3) ~ Next year in Corsicana ~ again! ~ at November 25, 2022 11:13 AM (hOUT3)
37
I recall the Wall coming down as a series of events: people siddenly going freely through some border crossings, news announcements of the borders in chaos, people hammering on the Wall. So I don't have a single memory of where i was
Posted by: JM in Florida at November 25, 2022 11:13 AM (5yZq4)
38
Meanwhile Germany has engaged in national suicide in the name of sustainable energy.
-------
If it appeases just one little angry, screeching, narcissistic Swedish Pol Tot scold ...
-------
If it appeases just one little angry, screeching, narcissistic Swedish Pol Tot scold ...
Posted by: ShainS -- The Humiliation is Part of the Kink at November 25, 2022 11:13 AM (ynBkT)
39
Big time money laundering.
Posted by: BignJames at November 25, 2022 11:13 AM (AwYPR)
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 11:14 AM (PY/t0)
41
Where Were You on November 9, 1989?
Plebe year at West Point, thinking "Hmm..maybe I should have opted for Chinese or Arabic instead of Russian..."
Plebe year at West Point, thinking "Hmm..maybe I should have opted for Chinese or Arabic instead of Russian..."
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at November 25, 2022 11:14 AM (Wnv9h)
42
The best possible outcome would be a negotiated peace
The worst possible outcome would be to have Putin overthrown mid-conflict, which would be almost certain to bring someone more hard-line into power, who would be a lot more likely to use nuclear weapons to bring the conflict to a successful conclusion.
The worst possible outcome would be to have Putin overthrown mid-conflict, which would be almost certain to bring someone more hard-line into power, who would be a lot more likely to use nuclear weapons to bring the conflict to a successful conclusion.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:14 AM (KCOCK)
43
seems to me, this isn't the same Russian army that fought back from Stalingrad all the way to Berlin
agree, we should end our seemingly endless presence in Europe
agree, we should end our seemingly endless presence in Europe
Posted by: DB at November 25, 2022 11:14 AM (geLO8)
44
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 11:10 AM (eYoxG)
That's the beauty of 20/20 hindsight. You can adjust as necessary.
That's the beauty of 20/20 hindsight. You can adjust as necessary.
Posted by: polynikes at November 25, 2022 11:14 AM (nBhwo)
45
35 Thanks for your concern, @wsj. To answer your question: yes, the trains are running on time.
Do you want to lock that in, Mr. President- is that your final solution?
Posted by: Regis Philbin at November 25, 2022 11:13 AM (Sv58p)
Actually, Sister took AmTrak last week.... train was 35 minutes late.
Do you want to lock that in, Mr. President- is that your final solution?
Posted by: Regis Philbin at November 25, 2022 11:13 AM (Sv58p)
Actually, Sister took AmTrak last week.... train was 35 minutes late.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 25, 2022 11:15 AM (oHd/0)
46
42 "The best possible outcome would be a negotiated peace"
The worst possible outcome would be to have Putin overthrown mid-conflict, which would be almost certain to bring someone more hard-line into power, who would be a lot more likely to use nuclear weapons to bring the conflict to a successful conclusion.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:14 AM (KCOCK)
Idk why it's even really being entertained as a serious prospect. Putin's position isn't unstable. That could possibly change at some point but there's nothing pointing to him losing power anytime soon.
The worst possible outcome would be to have Putin overthrown mid-conflict, which would be almost certain to bring someone more hard-line into power, who would be a lot more likely to use nuclear weapons to bring the conflict to a successful conclusion.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:14 AM (KCOCK)
Idk why it's even really being entertained as a serious prospect. Putin's position isn't unstable. That could possibly change at some point but there's nothing pointing to him losing power anytime soon.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 11:15 AM (eYoxG)
47
this little strip of Ukraine (shown in the map below) is all that Russia has been able to conquer
Not so little. Ukraine is a big place.
Not so little. Ukraine is a big place.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:16 AM (KCOCK)
48
The FNM: A couple of more billions dollars and the Ukes will be marching down the streets of Moscow bayonet raping Putin as they go!
Also the FNM: If we don't nuke Moscow today the Russians will be goose stepping in Des Moines tomorrow!
Also the FNM: If we don't nuke Moscow today the Russians will be goose stepping in Des Moines tomorrow!
Posted by: 18-1 at November 25, 2022 11:16 AM (ESjRY)
49
I arrived at my first duty station in the soft underbelly of the Warsaw Pact on 2 September, 1989. Just two months later, the Soviets gave up and the Berlin Wall fell.
I am entirely open to the idea that this was a coincidence.
I am entirely open to the idea that this was a coincidence.
Posted by: blaster at November 25, 2022 11:16 AM (hEWkd)
50
If Putin is our enemy, does that mean Zelenskyy is our friend? Does a victorious Ukraine further the interests of the United States? Does a diminished, weakened Russia further the interests of the United States? How are conservative interests in the United States furthered by the conflict in Ukraine, whatever the outcome?
Posted by: kraken at November 25, 2022 11:17 AM (Vr12I)
51
I do not recall where I was when the Berlin Wall came down, but recall being astonished that it had happened. For 9-11, I was at work.; for Apollo 11, I was at my grandparents place on an island that lacked both television and electrical service, so I could only read about it. As I recall, Teddy "The Swimmer"'s exploits at Chappaquiddick generated more conversation that week out there than did the moon hullabaloo.
I do not recall where I was when the Berlin Wall came down, but recall being astonished that it had happened. For 9-11, I was at work.; for Apollo 11, I was at my grandparents place on an island that lacked both television and electrical service, so I could only read about it. As I recall, Teddy "The Swimmer"'s exploits at Chappaquiddick generated more conversation that week out there than did the moon hullabaloo.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars at November 25, 2022 11:17 AM (pNxlR)
52
Best result in Ukraine?
A fair plebiscite in Donbass and the related territories. Russia and Ukraine agree to abide by the results.
Note: That's been on the table from Russia since the start of the war.
A fair plebiscite in Donbass and the related territories. Russia and Ukraine agree to abide by the results.
Note: That's been on the table from Russia since the start of the war.
Posted by: 18-1 at November 25, 2022 11:18 AM (ESjRY)
53
If Sundowner says he will make the trains run on time they plan to open the Gulags soon.
Posted by: Skip's phone at November 25, 2022 11:18 AM (xhxe8)
54
Shot:
The Associated Press@AP
New Twitter owner Elon Musk said he is granting "amnesty” for suspended accounts, which online safety experts predict will spur a rise in harassment, hate speech and misinformation.
Chaser:
Elon Musk@elonmusk
AP is such an expert in misinformation. Twitter couldn’t hope to compete!
The Associated Press@AP
New Twitter owner Elon Musk said he is granting "amnesty” for suspended accounts, which online safety experts predict will spur a rise in harassment, hate speech and misinformation.
Chaser:
Elon Musk@elonmusk
AP is such an expert in misinformation. Twitter couldn’t hope to compete!
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 25, 2022 11:18 AM (FVME7)
55
>The worst possible outcome would be to have Putin overthrown mid-conflict, which would be almost certain to bring someone more hard-line into power,
why is that certain
he could also be replaced by person/persons who say 'enough of this shit'
why is that certain
he could also be replaced by person/persons who say 'enough of this shit'
Posted by: DB at November 25, 2022 11:18 AM (geLO8)
56
I genuinely thought I’d never see this day in my lifetime.
--------
Ditto, Buck. Well-said re: those who made the fall of the Berlin Wall possible.
BTW, one of those "do you remember where you were moments" was the night of The Steal -- November 3, 2020 -- when they stopped the vote counting, and I knew the republic had been overthrown for good. Made me, and still am, sick to my stomach ...
--------
Ditto, Buck. Well-said re: those who made the fall of the Berlin Wall possible.
BTW, one of those "do you remember where you were moments" was the night of The Steal -- November 3, 2020 -- when they stopped the vote counting, and I knew the republic had been overthrown for good. Made me, and still am, sick to my stomach ...
Posted by: ShainS -- The Humiliation is Part of the Kink at November 25, 2022 11:18 AM (ynBkT)
57
Chick has some pipes.
Posted by: Quarter Twenty at November 25, 2022 11:18 AM (DhOHl)
58
Berlin Wall coming down? I was in Munich for the Productronica electronic manufacturing trade show. I walked out of the Eden Wolfe hotel to the Banhoff to catch the subway tot he show and everyone was running around screaming, laughing, high fiving, and dancing. I was like what the hell. Didn't know what was happening until walked by a newspaper machine and could figure out the headline and the picture. That day was pretty spectacular.
Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable a Clear and Present Danger at November 25, 2022 11:19 AM (u4CEu)
59
Idk why it's even really being entertained as a serious prospect. Putin's position isn't unstable. That could possibly change at some point but there's nothing pointing to him losing power anytime soon.
In the last week or so, there have been a raft of articles in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Economist, the Moscow Times, and elsewhere explaining that Putin is about to be overthrown.
Somebody is mounting a coordinated campaign - probably to get people to think that we are on the cusp of victory as things get bad this winter.
In the last week or so, there have been a raft of articles in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Economist, the Moscow Times, and elsewhere explaining that Putin is about to be overthrown.
Somebody is mounting a coordinated campaign - probably to get people to think that we are on the cusp of victory as things get bad this winter.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:19 AM (KCOCK)
60
Russia has been indeed exposed as far weaker than supposed. But that doesn't mean they're incapable of killing people and causing mayhem. NATO exists to contain them within their own borders. Thus the support for Ukraine. I agree we shouldn't be involved directly ourselves, but I see no issue with us giving weapons and intel and advice to them.
Put it this way. Every month Russia is bogged down in Ukraine, it sets their military back a year. By that math, it will be 20 years before they're able to threaten anyone again. For the cost of 100 billion, we get 20 years of peace in Europe. That's just 5 billion per year. That's a pretty amazing investment and I can't think of any weapons system or program of ours that can do the same for cheaper.
Put it this way. Every month Russia is bogged down in Ukraine, it sets their military back a year. By that math, it will be 20 years before they're able to threaten anyone again. For the cost of 100 billion, we get 20 years of peace in Europe. That's just 5 billion per year. That's a pretty amazing investment and I can't think of any weapons system or program of ours that can do the same for cheaper.
Posted by: Obscure at November 25, 2022 11:19 AM (NQmCT)
Posted by: blaster at November 25, 2022 11:19 AM (hEWkd)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 25, 2022 11:19 AM (io/eI)
63
I was on staff duty at 3rd Brigade, 3rd ID in Achaffenburg Germany, manning the phone.
Wife and I had taken a trip to Berlin just months before, so we experienced Check Point Charlie and all that.
Wife and I had taken a trip to Berlin just months before, so we experienced Check Point Charlie and all that.
Posted by: Pug Mahon, Gen X Ne'er-Do-Well at November 25, 2022 11:19 AM (UQUAY)
64
Best result in Ukraine?
A fair plebiscite in Donbass and the related territories. Russia and Ukraine agree to abide by the results.
Note: That's been on the table from Russia since the start of the war.
Posted by: 18-1
Fair fair or Biden fair?
A fair plebiscite in Donbass and the related territories. Russia and Ukraine agree to abide by the results.
Note: That's been on the table from Russia since the start of the war.
Posted by: 18-1
Fair fair or Biden fair?
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 25, 2022 11:19 AM (FVME7)
65
seems to me, this isn't the same Russian army that fought back from Stalingrad all the way to Berlin
It helped that they were being supplied by the Allies. And that they had an inexhaustible well of manpower to draw on (and womanpower). Their desertions were low because they had shooters behind the line, ready to drop anybody who ran away from the fight.
It helped that they were being supplied by the Allies. And that they had an inexhaustible well of manpower to draw on (and womanpower). Their desertions were low because they had shooters behind the line, ready to drop anybody who ran away from the fight.
Posted by: kallisto at November 25, 2022 11:19 AM (LefDD)
66
Somebody is mounting a coordinated campaign - probably to get people to think that we are on the cusp of victory as things get bad this winter.
Posted by: The ARC of History!
___
Thing is, Russia isn't losing.
Posted by: The ARC of History!
___
Thing is, Russia isn't losing.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:19 AM (9KRwM)
Posted by: spindrift at November 25, 2022 11:20 AM (h5TKJ)
68
The worst possible outcome would be to have Putin overthrown mid-conflict, which would be almost certain to bring someone more hard-line into power
After the Biden junta seems to have gotten away with blowing up Nord Stream I worry they feel they can push their luck and assassinate Putin and just claim "Could have been anyone!"
After the Biden junta seems to have gotten away with blowing up Nord Stream I worry they feel they can push their luck and assassinate Putin and just claim "Could have been anyone!"
Posted by: 18-1 at November 25, 2022 11:20 AM (ESjRY)
69
I was missing President Reagan in 1989........just like I'm missing President Trump right now. Another deja vu again.
Posted by: Eromero at November 25, 2022 11:20 AM (z3WCn)
Posted by: Clyde Shelton at November 25, 2022 11:21 AM (Do5/p)
71
The warhawks in the Uniparty want a war, any war to continue as it's their primary grifting stream.
Every faction in government, whatever their "cause" has a grift based on some "cause." For some it's war. For others it's the environment, or crime, or....
And all of our political betters have several "causes" they champion as it lines their pockets every month will millions of dollars. Very little, if anything at all aligns with what their constituent's concerns actually are.
Every faction in government, whatever their "cause" has a grift based on some "cause." For some it's war. For others it's the environment, or crime, or....
And all of our political betters have several "causes" they champion as it lines their pockets every month will millions of dollars. Very little, if anything at all aligns with what their constituent's concerns actually are.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at November 25, 2022 11:21 AM (Q4IgG)
72
55 >The worst possible outcome would be to have Putin overthrown mid-conflict, which would be almost certain to bring someone more hard-line into power,
why is that certain
he could also be replaced by person/persons who say 'enough of this shit'
Posted by: DB at November 25, 2022 11:18 AM (geLO
It's the nature of the power-structures and ruling institutions of Russia (which have been consistent since its founding, even through the communist era)
Accepting that a military or intelligence guy will be ruling Russia, which Putin is currently the head of and symbolic to, successors to Putin will oppose whoever caused his demise/downfall.
why is that certain
he could also be replaced by person/persons who say 'enough of this shit'
Posted by: DB at November 25, 2022 11:18 AM (geLO
It's the nature of the power-structures and ruling institutions of Russia (which have been consistent since its founding, even through the communist era)
Accepting that a military or intelligence guy will be ruling Russia, which Putin is currently the head of and symbolic to, successors to Putin will oppose whoever caused his demise/downfall.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 11:21 AM (eYoxG)
73
Sen. Richard Lugar (R-Indiana) and some fellow geniuses promised the Ukraine that if they gave up nukes we would make sure nothing bad would happen to them.
Do we ever get tired of fucking over people who we buy overseas?
I'm all for no foreign entanglements but keep your word.
Sen. Richard Lugar (R-Indiana) and some fellow geniuses promised the Ukraine that if they gave up nukes we would make sure nothing bad would happen to them.
Do we ever get tired of fucking over people who we buy overseas?
I'm all for no foreign entanglements but keep your word.
Posted by: Auspex at November 25, 2022 11:21 AM (fs6R/)
74
why is that certain
he could also be replaced by person/persons who say 'enough of this shit'
Because the people in the position to take immediate advantage of a coup are the people in the military and intelligence services - like Nikolai Patrushev, who is head of the intelligence services, and is much more hard-line than Putin.
You're not going to get a pro-Western technocrat in a position of power without an orderly transition.
he could also be replaced by person/persons who say 'enough of this shit'
Because the people in the position to take immediate advantage of a coup are the people in the military and intelligence services - like Nikolai Patrushev, who is head of the intelligence services, and is much more hard-line than Putin.
You're not going to get a pro-Western technocrat in a position of power without an orderly transition.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:21 AM (KCOCK)
75
66
Thing is, Russia isn't losing.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:19 AM (9KRwM)
Another thing is, as far as this country goes, we have lost the moral high ground when lecturing and pontificating about “ principles”.
Thing is, Russia isn't losing.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:19 AM (9KRwM)
Another thing is, as far as this country goes, we have lost the moral high ground when lecturing and pontificating about “ principles”.
Posted by: kraken at November 25, 2022 11:21 AM (Vr12I)
76
In the end, we need Russia on our side against China. Our China owned politicians have done their best to make sure that that never happens.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 11:22 AM (PY/t0)
77
Plebe year at West Point, thinking "Hmm..maybe I should have opted for Chinese or Arabic instead of Russian..."
Posted by: RedMindBlueState
Who let the ring-knocker riff-raff in here?
Plebe year at West Point, thinking "Hmm..maybe I should have opted for Chinese or Arabic instead of Russian..."
Posted by: RedMindBlueState
Who let the ring-knocker riff-raff in here?
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 25, 2022 11:22 AM (n+4am)
78
“ 7 Where Were You on November 9, 1989? ”
Flying F-16’s at Hahn AB, GE. We were a triple Doc squadron, A-A, Mud, and Strike. My strike target was a Soviet sub subterranean command post in East Berlin using a B61.
I could see I would soon be out of a job.
Flying F-16’s at Hahn AB, GE. We were a triple Doc squadron, A-A, Mud, and Strike. My strike target was a Soviet sub subterranean command post in East Berlin using a B61.
I could see I would soon be out of a job.
Posted by: Mongo at November 25, 2022 11:22 AM (lNGEN)
79
Fair fair or Biden fair?
A point that would be made repeatedly, if there was an opposition party, is that back in the 80s where we were facing the Soviets there was a clear black and white morality. They were authoritarian butchers and we were mostly free.
Now? Putin's killed more domestic political opponents then the Biden junta...sure. But that latter number is not 0. And our elections are no fairer then Russia's anymore.
A point that would be made repeatedly, if there was an opposition party, is that back in the 80s where we were facing the Soviets there was a clear black and white morality. They were authoritarian butchers and we were mostly free.
Now? Putin's killed more domestic political opponents then the Biden junta...sure. But that latter number is not 0. And our elections are no fairer then Russia's anymore.
Posted by: 18-1 at November 25, 2022 11:22 AM (ESjRY)
80
I arrived at my first duty station in the soft underbelly of the Warsaw Pact on 2 September, 1989. Just two months later, the Soviets gave up and the Berlin Wall fell.
I am entirely open to the idea that this was a coincidence.
Posted by: blaster at November 25, 2022 11:16 AM (hEWkd)
-------
I read about your exploits in the excellent Paul Kengor book "A Pope and a President: John Paul II, Ronald Reagan, blaster, and the Extraordinary Untold Story of the 20th Century."
I am entirely open to the idea that this was a coincidence.
Posted by: blaster at November 25, 2022 11:16 AM (hEWkd)
-------
I read about your exploits in the excellent Paul Kengor book "A Pope and a President: John Paul II, Ronald Reagan, blaster, and the Extraordinary Untold Story of the 20th Century."
Posted by: ShainS -- The Humiliation is Part of the Kink at November 25, 2022 11:24 AM (ynBkT)
81
We should have never allowed the Soviet Union to create their Eastern European fiefdom . Especially Poland who they attack along with Hitler and the Nazis.
That's my hindsight opinion that Patton held immediately.
That's my hindsight opinion that Patton held immediately.
Posted by: polynikes at November 25, 2022 11:24 AM (nBhwo)
82
I went to Berlin on business in late November 1989. Most of the wall was still up at that time, but big holes had been opened up. I remember looking out the airplane window as we were landing and seeing the remains of the wall out in the countryside.
In the city, you could move freely between west and east through gaps in the remaining wall. There was no mistaking which side of the wall you were on, west looked like a modern European city, while much of the eastern half looked pretty much the same as it must have been in June 1945. Old pre-war buildings with chips in the stone from bullet impacts.
There were vendors at the wall selling chunks of concrete from the wall and east German military artifacts, medals and uniform items.
In the city, you could move freely between west and east through gaps in the remaining wall. There was no mistaking which side of the wall you were on, west looked like a modern European city, while much of the eastern half looked pretty much the same as it must have been in June 1945. Old pre-war buildings with chips in the stone from bullet impacts.
There were vendors at the wall selling chunks of concrete from the wall and east German military artifacts, medals and uniform items.
Posted by: a.moron at November 25, 2022 11:24 AM (F6Xpw)
83
I suppose a bottom line for me concerning Ukraine is that it is a convenient distraction away from the decay and dissolution of our Republic. Seems to be working.
Posted by: kraken at November 25, 2022 11:25 AM (Vr12I)
84
idk if this is true, but in the memoir of a Waffen SS who fought on the Eastern front, he claimed that the Russian troops had a special torture for SS troops. They placed the unfortunate Nazi's hands in boiling water, then pulled the cooked hands out of the water, sliced a line around the guy's wrists, and pulled the skin right off as if it were a glove.
if that's true, well, that's pretty crazy
if that's true, well, that's pretty crazy
Posted by: kallisto at November 25, 2022 11:25 AM (LefDD)
85
I would love to see a bar graph of what Europe has thrown at the Ukraine war versus the US.
Think how many hundreds of billions the US will have thrown at this that will end up in the Swiss bank accounts of Democrat children who pretend to have jobs.
Think how many hundreds of billions the US will have thrown at this that will end up in the Swiss bank accounts of Democrat children who pretend to have jobs.
Posted by: Blago at November 25, 2022 11:25 AM (PwNLq)
86
I thought the fall of the Iron Curtain would be the end of global communism. Turns out the USSR was the best way to keep the commies bankrupted.
Posted by: Cosda at November 25, 2022 11:25 AM (uWG+b)
87
For me it was November 10th when the wall fell. I was in South Korea with the 102nd MI Bn, 2nd Infantry Division.
Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (Gringo fuertemente armado-Tempus belli) at November 25, 2022 11:26 AM (l7Kbv)
88
Meanwhile Germany has engaged in national suicide in the name of sustainable energy.
This is the case for every Western nation in the world, including the USA. All energy policies pushed by the WEF and the world's rich elites and pushed on individual nations by those nations' Deep State institutions. And then every corporation has followed along.
This is the case for every Western nation in the world, including the USA. All energy policies pushed by the WEF and the world's rich elites and pushed on individual nations by those nations' Deep State institutions. And then every corporation has followed along.
Posted by: Clyde Shelton at November 25, 2022 11:26 AM (Do5/p)
89
The reason we are still in in Europe is because the US left (and some neocons)are enamored of European political thinking. They simply cannot fathom that our country free society is better than all of the stupid ass political ideas which have come out of Europe i.e. communism, liberation theology, fascism, socialism, social democracy, kaiserism, Naismith, etc,etc,etc. The British repeatedly got dragged into continental mishigasand look how it worked out for them. If we pulled out f Europe the French and Germans would be at each other's throats within six months and other nations would collapse into regional states. Not good for business
Posted by: Smell the Glove at November 25, 2022 11:27 AM (GGpUU)
90
I was 16 when the wall came down, and at a very intense science & math magnet school. We weren't all that tuned into the news. I have an alleged piece of the wall from a friend who visited Germany shortly thereafter.
The Challenger disaster is a much more vivid memory for me as my father had applied to be the "Teacher in Space," and yes I was a Space Camp nerd.
The Challenger disaster is a much more vivid memory for me as my father had applied to be the "Teacher in Space," and yes I was a Space Camp nerd.
Posted by: screaming in digital at November 25, 2022 11:27 AM (pkAcY)
91
What Martini Farmer said @ 71. It's all about money laundering. Well maybe except the arming up of Afghan jihadis, that one was top of mind for the ubama crowd.
Posted by: Eromero at November 25, 2022 11:27 AM (z3WCn)
92
We should have never allowed the Soviet Union to create their Eastern European fiefdom . Especially Poland who they attack along with Hitler and the Nazis.
That's my hindsight opinion that Patton held immediately.
Posted by: polynikes at November 25, 2022 11:24 AM (nBhwo)
There's no way that the US or western allies would have supported another war to drive the Soviets out of Eastern Europe, especially not with the war still raging in the Pacific.
That's my hindsight opinion that Patton held immediately.
Posted by: polynikes at November 25, 2022 11:24 AM (nBhwo)
There's no way that the US or western allies would have supported another war to drive the Soviets out of Eastern Europe, especially not with the war still raging in the Pacific.
Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at November 25, 2022 11:27 AM (wmDcS)
93
I was a Russian linguist in the Navy the last 11 years of the Cold War. Got to do some incredible stuff. It was a great day when we defeated the Rooskies, but that joy turned to anger and depression when I realized that the real war was in our schools. The commies infiltrated them and they are now reaping the rewards.
Posted by: RobertM at November 25, 2022 11:27 AM (+/lOf)
94
Biden Admin Quietly Greenlights Plan to Build Huge Gulf Oil Terminal
The Biden administration has quietly approved plans to build a new crude oil terminal in the Gulf of Mexico off Texas, seemingly in contradiction to the president’s climate agenda.
The Department of Transportation’s Maritime Administration approved the application (pdf) for Enterprise’s Sea Port Oil Terminal, one of four proposed offshore oil export terminals, on Monday.
According to the application, the port will be located offshore of Freeport, Texas. It will have 4.8 million barrels of storage capacity and add 2 million barrels per day to the U.S. oil export capacity.
So what little domestic oil they will let us produce will be grifted to Europe.
The Biden administration has quietly approved plans to build a new crude oil terminal in the Gulf of Mexico off Texas, seemingly in contradiction to the president’s climate agenda.
The Department of Transportation’s Maritime Administration approved the application (pdf) for Enterprise’s Sea Port Oil Terminal, one of four proposed offshore oil export terminals, on Monday.
According to the application, the port will be located offshore of Freeport, Texas. It will have 4.8 million barrels of storage capacity and add 2 million barrels per day to the U.S. oil export capacity.
So what little domestic oil they will let us produce will be grifted to Europe.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 11:28 AM (PY/t0)
95
I thought the fall of the Iron Curtain would be the end of global communism. Turns out the USSR was the best way to keep the commies bankrupted.
Posted by: Cosda
very true.
It was also a constant reminder that Marxism was a failure.
For whatever reason, the Left has been able to convince people that examples like Venezuela "don't count"
Posted by: Cosda
very true.
It was also a constant reminder that Marxism was a failure.
For whatever reason, the Left has been able to convince people that examples like Venezuela "don't count"
Posted by: Blago at November 25, 2022 11:28 AM (PwNLq)
96
This is the case for every Western nation in the world, including the USA
What happened in the Netherlands? I remember the government was taking lands from farmers and making it impossible to farm so they could build housing for invaders and the people were protesting.
I assume the farmers gave up?
What happened in the Netherlands? I remember the government was taking lands from farmers and making it impossible to farm so they could build housing for invaders and the people were protesting.
I assume the farmers gave up?
Posted by: 18-1 at November 25, 2022 11:28 AM (ESjRY)
97
The Washington Post@washingtonpost
“Opening the gates of hell”: Musk says he will revive banned Twitter accounts
-
The Bells of Hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling
For you but not for me:
For me the angels sing-a-ling-a-ling,
They've got the goods for me.
Oh! Death, where is thy sting-a-ling-a-ling?
Oh! Grave, thy victory?
The Bells of Hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling
For you but not for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNpoO9yISDw
“Opening the gates of hell”: Musk says he will revive banned Twitter accounts
-
The Bells of Hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling
For you but not for me:
For me the angels sing-a-ling-a-ling,
They've got the goods for me.
Oh! Death, where is thy sting-a-ling-a-ling?
Oh! Grave, thy victory?
The Bells of Hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling
For you but not for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNpoO9yISDw
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 25, 2022 11:28 AM (FVME7)
Posted by: polynikes at November 25, 2022 11:28 AM (nBhwo)
99
Excuse please, martini farmer was @ 71.
Posted by: Eromero at November 25, 2022 11:28 AM (z3WCn)
100
Zelensky media shooting an "atrocity scene" in Ukraine.
The Ukrainian government also came very close to starting World War Three, by claiming that the Russians had attacked Poland, and demanding that NATO immediately retaliate, when it was one of their off-course missiles that had hit Poland.
The Ukrainian government still refuses to acknowledge that it was their missile. even though everyone outside Ukraine admits that it was.
BTW, this was one of the first instances where Elon Musk's control of Twitter was critical - people commenting on Twitter rapidly assembled the evidence that the missile was Ukrainian, which quickly defused the demands for NATO retaliation.
Under Old Twitter, claims that it was a "Russian attack" would have been boosted, while the correct assertions that it was a Ukrainian missile would have been suppressed.
The Ukrainian government also came very close to starting World War Three, by claiming that the Russians had attacked Poland, and demanding that NATO immediately retaliate, when it was one of their off-course missiles that had hit Poland.
The Ukrainian government still refuses to acknowledge that it was their missile. even though everyone outside Ukraine admits that it was.
BTW, this was one of the first instances where Elon Musk's control of Twitter was critical - people commenting on Twitter rapidly assembled the evidence that the missile was Ukrainian, which quickly defused the demands for NATO retaliation.
Under Old Twitter, claims that it was a "Russian attack" would have been boosted, while the correct assertions that it was a Ukrainian missile would have been suppressed.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:29 AM (KCOCK)
101
For whatever reason, the Left has been able to convince people that examples like Venezuela "don't count"
Posted by: Blago at November 25, 2022 11:28 AM (PwNLq)
They run the schools, and frankly most Americans have negligible familiarity with Venezuela.
Posted by: Blago at November 25, 2022 11:28 AM (PwNLq)
They run the schools, and frankly most Americans have negligible familiarity with Venezuela.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 11:29 AM (eYoxG)
102
Watched a video the other day, said the last 40 years of borrowing has been based off of the long-dead dream of the 50's:
That America will always grow, always be the world leader, always get richer and richer.
Borrowing trillions is then justified because the dream says we will always be able to pay it back easily.
Permanent garrisons of hundreds of thousands of troops defending other countries--at our expense-- is part of that dead dream; keep the world markets open for "our" (but really globalist) corporations. You know, the corporations that have outsource all their jobs, off-shore all their profits, and are rotted through with woke.
That America will always grow, always be the world leader, always get richer and richer.
Borrowing trillions is then justified because the dream says we will always be able to pay it back easily.
Permanent garrisons of hundreds of thousands of troops defending other countries--at our expense-- is part of that dead dream; keep the world markets open for "our" (but really globalist) corporations. You know, the corporations that have outsource all their jobs, off-shore all their profits, and are rotted through with woke.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at November 25, 2022 11:29 AM (5EnGD)
103
Current events was the last thing on my mind at the time.
I was in Hawaii at the time, working some menial job taking care of a new baby.
I was in Hawaii at the time, working some menial job taking care of a new baby.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:29 AM (9KRwM)
104
For whatever reason, the Left has been able to convince people that examples like Venezuela "don't count"
My read on it is a little different. Lefty activist types know the result of what they want is Venezuela or Cambodia. They are fine with that as long as they are the ones in power.
Lefty LIVs don't care. They want gubmint checks and will vote for whoever gives it to them.
My read on it is a little different. Lefty activist types know the result of what they want is Venezuela or Cambodia. They are fine with that as long as they are the ones in power.
Lefty LIVs don't care. They want gubmint checks and will vote for whoever gives it to them.
Posted by: 18-1 at November 25, 2022 11:30 AM (ESjRY)
105
I had just graduated from high school and started college. I am so old.
Posted by: Piper at November 25, 2022 11:30 AM (ZdaMQ)
106
The Soviets started allowing the gates of the Iron Curtain to open in October. They were just going to let East Germans out for the weekends. Relieve the pressure.
I remember reading that record numbers of Levi's blue jeans and Depeche Mode cassettes were stolen.
I remember reading that record numbers of Levi's blue jeans and Depeche Mode cassettes were stolen.
Posted by: blaster at November 25, 2022 11:31 AM (hEWkd)
107
I thought the fall of the Iron Curtain would be the end of global communism.
They became environmentalists and global warming crusaders.
By the end of the Cold War, the standard joke was that the only Marxists left were professors in Western universities.
They became environmentalists and global warming crusaders.
By the end of the Cold War, the standard joke was that the only Marxists left were professors in Western universities.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:31 AM (KCOCK)
108
I fully expected to die killing communists, I just didn't expect them to be my fellow Americans.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 11:09 AM (PY/t0)
Ouch....
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 11:09 AM (PY/t0)
Ouch....
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 25, 2022 11:31 AM (XIJ/X)
109
Put it this way. Every month Russia is bogged down in Ukraine, it sets their military back a year. By that math, it will be 20 years before they're able to threaten anyone again. For the cost of 100 billion, we get 20 years of peace in Europe. That's just 5 billion per year. That's a pretty amazing investment and I can't think of any weapons system or program of ours that can do the same for cheaper.
Posted by: Obscure
That works for Europe, but a weakened Russia is also tempting prey for their nominal ally China, who is licking their chops over the resources in Siberia. The only good part of that scenario is that as long as it doesn't go nucular, the death toll is likely to be much smaller, simply because of the population density.
Put it this way. Every month Russia is bogged down in Ukraine, it sets their military back a year. By that math, it will be 20 years before they're able to threaten anyone again. For the cost of 100 billion, we get 20 years of peace in Europe. That's just 5 billion per year. That's a pretty amazing investment and I can't think of any weapons system or program of ours that can do the same for cheaper.
Posted by: Obscure
That works for Europe, but a weakened Russia is also tempting prey for their nominal ally China, who is licking their chops over the resources in Siberia. The only good part of that scenario is that as long as it doesn't go nucular, the death toll is likely to be much smaller, simply because of the population density.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 25, 2022 11:32 AM (n+4am)
110
I thought the fall of the Iron Curtain would be the end of global communism
After the cold war the left was adrift. Look back on the themes Bill Clinton ran on. Tax cuts. School uniforms. More cops on the streets.
And then they found Chinese style socialism.
After the cold war the left was adrift. Look back on the themes Bill Clinton ran on. Tax cuts. School uniforms. More cops on the streets.
And then they found Chinese style socialism.
Posted by: 18-1 at November 25, 2022 11:32 AM (ESjRY)
111
My biggest fear now is that bringing the battle to an end is not the desired outcome of those who are who are most enthusiastic about the Ukrainian war, those being the “permanent war” coalition of politicians, intelligence agencies, global money launderers, and defense contractors.
While there may be some who are motivated by what you say above, there are many of us who simply want Russia out of someone else's country, and to pay a price for their aggression, so that it doesn't happen again. The way you've phrased it suggests that only the former is true, and that is wrong.
While there may be some who are motivated by what you say above, there are many of us who simply want Russia out of someone else's country, and to pay a price for their aggression, so that it doesn't happen again. The way you've phrased it suggests that only the former is true, and that is wrong.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:32 AM (eOEVl)
112
94 Biden Admin Quietly Greenlights Plan to Build Huge Gulf Oil Terminal
//////
To ship more oil to China?
//////
To ship more oil to China?
Posted by: JM in Florida at November 25, 2022 11:32 AM (JOPuh)
113
Don't remember on a lot of those dates, but today marks birthdays for both JFK, Jr., and Augosto Pinochet, two giants in aviation.
Posted by: Wally at November 25, 2022 11:33 AM (e8LQ4)
114
If Ukraine Alone Can Repel Russia, Why Are American Troops Still Needed to Protect Germany & Western Europe?
The Vatican, man. The Vatican.
If Ukraine Alone Can Repel Russia, Why Are American Troops Still Needed to Protect Germany & Western Europe?
The Vatican, man. The Vatican.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at November 25, 2022 11:33 AM (MoZTd)
115
After the Biden junta seems to have gotten away with blowing up Nord Stream I worry they feel they can push their luck and assassinate Putin and just claim "Could have been anyone!"
Posted by: 18-1 at November 25, 2022 11:20 AM (ESjRY)
-------
Blame it on Hannity. Win-Win!
Posted by: 18-1 at November 25, 2022 11:20 AM (ESjRY)
-------
Blame it on Hannity. Win-Win!
Posted by: ShainS -- The Humiliation is Part of the Kink at November 25, 2022 11:33 AM (ynBkT)
116
online safety experts
I laughed.
Posted by: spindrift
Sounds better than fired ex-Twitter employees.
I laughed.
Posted by: spindrift
Sounds better than fired ex-Twitter employees.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 25, 2022 11:33 AM (FVME7)
117
Who let the ring-knocker riff-raff in here?
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 25, 2022 11:22 AM
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 25, 2022 11:22 AM
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at November 25, 2022 11:33 AM (Wnv9h)
118
I'm a little suprised that this song wasn't added to the post regarding the wall coming down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4RjJKxsamQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4RjJKxsamQ
Posted by: OneEyedJack at November 25, 2022 11:33 AM (FCbAQ)
119
I was at home, watching tv. Then the news cut in with scenes of East Germans dancing on top of the Wall and throwing pieces of it. I was shocked, but not shocked. I knew enough to understand it was happening sooner or later, but actually watching it in real time was incredible.
Why are we still in Europe? Your guess is as good as mine. We should have folded our tents and come home twenty some years ago. I suspect it has something to do with feeding money into the German economy. Remember the hysterics the Germans threw when we threatened to move our lines out of Germany and into Poland? Europe has been able to build their happy little leader mongering culture on the backs of the American tax payer. Let them pay for it themselves.
Why are we still in Europe? Your guess is as good as mine. We should have folded our tents and come home twenty some years ago. I suspect it has something to do with feeding money into the German economy. Remember the hysterics the Germans threw when we threatened to move our lines out of Germany and into Poland? Europe has been able to build their happy little leader mongering culture on the backs of the American tax payer. Let them pay for it themselves.
Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin -- I wasn't particularly fond of the '70s the first time around at November 25, 2022 11:34 AM (EatM3)
120
I would love to see a bar graph of what Europe has thrown at the Ukraine war versus the US.
The Germans have deliberately provided as little aid to Ukraine as possible.
When the war ends, they're still going to have to deal with Russia, and would prefer not to completely piss the Russians off.
The Germans have deliberately provided as little aid to Ukraine as possible.
When the war ends, they're still going to have to deal with Russia, and would prefer not to completely piss the Russians off.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:34 AM (KCOCK)
121
Put it this way. Every month Russia is bogged down in Ukraine, it sets their military back a year. By that math, it will be 20 years before they're able to threaten anyone again. For the cost of 100 billion, we get 20 years of peace in Europe. That's just 5 billion per year. That's a pretty amazing investment and I can't think of any weapons system or program of ours that can do the same for cheaper.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:34 AM (eOEVl)
122
I wonder how our munitions reserves are holding up? Don't forget, as the world policemen we need to be able to wage full-on war on two fronts. Also, quality recruits - are we getting the best and brightest? Patriotic men and women and transgenders who believe in spreading American hegemonic democracy around the world no matter the cost. To maintain our exceptionalism, we must have exceptional equipment and personnel.
Posted by: MikeN at November 25, 2022 11:34 AM (ARcCi)
123
I remember it - sort of. I had just turned six. I didn't understand what the big deal was, but I understood it was a big deal. Everyone was all on about it, all day, for at least a week. The big thing for me was that it was the moment when I asked my parents what Communism was, and got that answer.
So a little while later, when the Soviet Union collapsed entirely, I *did* understand what the big deal.
I also hated Commie scum for the rest of my life, and look forward to the day when their back is broken in the United States. And I'm also resolved that when it happens here, there be no mercy shown to the Left, as was shown in Europe.
Party proscriptions. Executions of leadership. Shitloads of exiles. And I mean millions of those. You don't have to go to China, but you can't stay here.
Nonbinary? Get on the truck. College professor? Get on the truck. And so on. I'll be curious to see if the globalist Commie bloc is so fired up about saving our refugees from their humanitarian crisis, as they've been in the crises that advance their agenda.
HINT: They won't be.
I remember it - sort of. I had just turned six. I didn't understand what the big deal was, but I understood it was a big deal. Everyone was all on about it, all day, for at least a week. The big thing for me was that it was the moment when I asked my parents what Communism was, and got that answer.
So a little while later, when the Soviet Union collapsed entirely, I *did* understand what the big deal.
I also hated Commie scum for the rest of my life, and look forward to the day when their back is broken in the United States. And I'm also resolved that when it happens here, there be no mercy shown to the Left, as was shown in Europe.
Party proscriptions. Executions of leadership. Shitloads of exiles. And I mean millions of those. You don't have to go to China, but you can't stay here.
Nonbinary? Get on the truck. College professor? Get on the truck. And so on. I'll be curious to see if the globalist Commie bloc is so fired up about saving our refugees from their humanitarian crisis, as they've been in the crises that advance their agenda.
HINT: They won't be.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 25, 2022 11:34 AM (oINRc)
124
There's no way that the US or western allies would have supported another war to drive the Soviets out of Eastern Europe, especially not with the war still raging in the Pacific.
Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at November 25, 2022 11:27 AM (wmDcS)
Things could have been done different prior to the Nazis defeat. And we were in a war a mere 5 years later. Again hindsight says it would have been the proper move. A few atomic bombs ( of the seven we would have had available in that period) would have been a good negotiating tool.
Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at November 25, 2022 11:27 AM (wmDcS)
Things could have been done different prior to the Nazis defeat. And we were in a war a mere 5 years later. Again hindsight says it would have been the proper move. A few atomic bombs ( of the seven we would have had available in that period) would have been a good negotiating tool.
Posted by: polynikes at November 25, 2022 11:34 AM (nBhwo)
125
I worry they feel they can push their luck and assassinate Putin and just claim "Could have been anyone!"
"We'll just get some Serbian kids and point them in the right direction."
I worry they feel they can push their luck and assassinate Putin and just claim "Could have been anyone!"
"We'll just get some Serbian kids and point them in the right direction."
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at November 25, 2022 11:35 AM (MoZTd)
126
I remember some of the hype at the fall of the wall and the sale of pieces. But was mostly eating paste and finger painting at that point in my life. Kinda like Joe Biden today...
Posted by: She Hobbit at November 25, 2022 11:35 AM (ftFVW)
127
If Ukraine Alone Can Repel Russia, Why Are American Troops Still Needed to Protect Germany & Western Europe?
The Vatican, man. The Vatican.
I was going to say Queen Elizabeth, but, you know...
The Vatican, man. The Vatican.
I was going to say Queen Elizabeth, but, you know...
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:35 AM (eOEVl)
128
One of the biggest mistakes we made after the fall of communism was to not have truth commissions on communism in America. We got a hold of Soviet intelligence data but...didn't do anything with it.
Of course the problem is that Bush 41 wasn't a conservative though you'd think as a CIA man he would have wanted revenge against those actively working with the Soviets over the years.
Of course the problem is that Bush 41 wasn't a conservative though you'd think as a CIA man he would have wanted revenge against those actively working with the Soviets over the years.
Posted by: 18-1 at November 25, 2022 11:35 AM (ESjRY)
129
I thought the fall of the Iron Curtain would be the end of global communism
-
The arc history bends to a gulag utopia!
-
The arc history bends to a gulag utopia!
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 25, 2022 11:35 AM (FVME7)
130
Put it this way. Every month Russia is bogged down in Ukraine, it sets their military back a year. By that math, it will be 20 years before they're able to threaten anyone again. For the cost of 100 billion, we get 20 years of peace in Europe. That's just 5 billion per year. That's a pretty amazing investment and I can't think of any weapons system or program of ours that can do the same for cheaper.
Posted by: Obscure at November 25, 2022 11:19 AM (NQmCT)
This is a ridiculous way of looking at things. The longer the war persists, the more robust the Russian supply chain for future conflicts. Weaknesses are identified and corrected. While there are financial expenses, great powers conducting military operations against weaker countries generally strengthens their military readiness.
It is extended peace that would leave the Russians lax and unprepared for war.
Posted by: Obscure at November 25, 2022 11:19 AM (NQmCT)
This is a ridiculous way of looking at things. The longer the war persists, the more robust the Russian supply chain for future conflicts. Weaknesses are identified and corrected. While there are financial expenses, great powers conducting military operations against weaker countries generally strengthens their military readiness.
It is extended peace that would leave the Russians lax and unprepared for war.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 11:36 AM (eYoxG)
131
JFK, Jr., and Augosto Pinochet, two giants in aviation.
Posted by: Wally at November 25, 2022 11:33 AM
*snort*
Posted by: Wally at November 25, 2022 11:33 AM
*snort*
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at November 25, 2022 11:36 AM (Wnv9h)
132
Nov o
O 89 was a Thursday, so most likely went to work, got home put on news and saw the wall came down and probably thought That sure took a long time
O 89 was a Thursday, so most likely went to work, got home put on news and saw the wall came down and probably thought That sure took a long time
Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2022 11:36 AM (xhxe8)
133
That's a pretty amazing investment and I can't think of any weapons system or program of ours that can do the same for cheaper.
Assuming that it doesn't trigger off World War Three, of course.
Assuming that it doesn't trigger off World War Three, of course.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:37 AM (KCOCK)
134
Nov '89, if memory serves we were just beginning to train for peacekeeping duty in Egypt. I watched the wall come down in the HHC 1-17th Inf dayroom in Ft Rich, AK, with a bunch of NCOs and officers who were despondent that they were soon to be out of a job.
Took a few years, but the peace dividend wiped out more US troops than if the balloon had gone up in W Germany. Turns out those officers were right after all.
Nov '89, if memory serves we were just beginning to train for peacekeeping duty in Egypt. I watched the wall come down in the HHC 1-17th Inf dayroom in Ft Rich, AK, with a bunch of NCOs and officers who were despondent that they were soon to be out of a job.
Took a few years, but the peace dividend wiped out more US troops than if the balloon had gone up in W Germany. Turns out those officers were right after all.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 25, 2022 11:38 AM (n+4am)
135
My cavalry troop got on buses and traveled through Checkpoint Charlie to East Berlin for a day. That day was the ultimate realization on the differences between a free society and communism. Kind of wish the wall was still up so others could experience that lesson also.
It was like comparing light to darkness.
It was like comparing light to darkness.
Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at November 25, 2022 11:38 AM (BdMk6)
136
It is extended peace that would leave the Russians lax and unprepared for war.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 11:36 AM (eYoxG)
Peacetime is when the traditional Russia corruption flourishes. When you can just claim you have 4K T-72s in fighting trim but don't have to produce them.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 11:36 AM (eYoxG)
Peacetime is when the traditional Russia corruption flourishes. When you can just claim you have 4K T-72s in fighting trim but don't have to produce them.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 11:39 AM (hwaFC)
137
The best possible outcome would be a negotiated peace that weakened Putin enough that there would be an orderly transfer of power, with some chance that someone more acceptable to the West would replace him.
The one group of people in the Russian government that have performed well are the rather pro-Western technocrats that have been holding the economy together, as opposed to the military and intelligence services, which have been abject failures, so there is some reason to be hopeful.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:12 AM (KCOCK)
I'm not so sure there will be a lot of pro-western power players left after the way the west has used this "situation" to gouge them financially, or the takings of Russian citizens' assets around the world.
It may be decades before pro western Russians can be so openly.
The one group of people in the Russian government that have performed well are the rather pro-Western technocrats that have been holding the economy together, as opposed to the military and intelligence services, which have been abject failures, so there is some reason to be hopeful.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:12 AM (KCOCK)
I'm not so sure there will be a lot of pro-western power players left after the way the west has used this "situation" to gouge them financially, or the takings of Russian citizens' assets around the world.
It may be decades before pro western Russians can be so openly.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at November 25, 2022 11:39 AM (FCbAQ)
138
USSR and USA both lost the Cold War. Sure, the Soviet Union crumbled first but it successfully injected the communist polonium into our system long before then. Now USA and all of Western Civ is dying of that cancer.
Posted by: No Shirt Shylock at November 25, 2022 11:39 AM (PWI4f)
139
That day was the ultimate realization on the differences between a free society and communism. Kind of wish the wall was still up so others could experience that lesson also.
I think we're going to experience it rather soon.
That day was the ultimate realization on the differences between a free society and communism. Kind of wish the wall was still up so others could experience that lesson also.
I think we're going to experience it rather soon.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at November 25, 2022 11:40 AM (MoZTd)
140
What's sad is that a lot of East Germans longed for the old East Germany . Freedom is hard !!
Posted by: polynikes at November 25, 2022 11:40 AM (nBhwo)
141
After the cold war the left was adrift. Look back on the themes Bill Clinton ran on. Tax cuts. School uniforms. More cops on the streets.
And then they found Chinese style socialism.
Posted by: 18-1
___
It also let Americans feel comfortable with putting a Democrat in the White House.
A big reason why Americans voted for a Republican in the WH was the Cold War and foreign policy.
But now, even after a humiliating spectacle like we had in Afghanistan, American voters will probably give Biden and Democrats another term.
And then they found Chinese style socialism.
Posted by: 18-1
___
It also let Americans feel comfortable with putting a Democrat in the White House.
A big reason why Americans voted for a Republican in the WH was the Cold War and foreign policy.
But now, even after a humiliating spectacle like we had in Afghanistan, American voters will probably give Biden and Democrats another term.
Posted by: Blago at November 25, 2022 11:40 AM (PwNLq)
142
Kind of wish the wall was still up so others could experience that lesson also.
I think the Czechs still do "Communism Day", where part of Wenceslas Square is turned into a parody of Communist society, just to remind people.
I think the Czechs still do "Communism Day", where part of Wenceslas Square is turned into a parody of Communist society, just to remind people.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:41 AM (KCOCK)
143
[snip]
Under Old Twitter, claims that it was a "Russian attack" would have been boosted, while the correct assertions that it was a Ukrainian missile would have been suppressed.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:29 AM (KCOCK)
-------
Excellent point, ARC -- and one of the all-time epic hashes.
Under Old Twitter, claims that it was a "Russian attack" would have been boosted, while the correct assertions that it was a Ukrainian missile would have been suppressed.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:29 AM (KCOCK)
-------
Excellent point, ARC -- and one of the all-time epic hashes.
Posted by: ShainS -- The Humiliation is Part of the Kink at November 25, 2022 11:41 AM (ynBkT)
144
Kind of wish the wall was still up so others could experience that lesson also.
___
Oh, don't worry.
We will.
And won't need a wall either.
___
Oh, don't worry.
We will.
And won't need a wall either.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:41 AM (BLZx2)
145
Prepping for Just Cause.
Posted by: Sua Sponte at November 25, 2022 11:41 AM (3J3a/)
146
Shaka when the walls fell.
Posted by: Madamemayhem (uppity wench) at November 25, 2022 11:42 AM (Wy1BU)
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at November 25, 2022 11:42 AM (VwHCD)
148
This is a ridiculous way of looking at things. The longer the war persists, the more robust the Russian supply chain for future conflicts. Weaknesses are identified and corrected. While there are financial expenses, great powers conducting military operations against weaker countries generally strengthens their military readiness.
You're pushing the broken windows theory of warfare. Any war is bad for the country involved. It consumes wealth at a horrible pace. Do you think the average Russian will like seeing his standard of living destroyed to salve Putin's ego?
In any case, a country like Russia lacks the economy to sustain what they're doing. They can't even replace the chips they need for their guided missiles. Why do you think they're using Iranian drones? Because they're the world's best? They're losing tanks and tank crews at an unsustainable pace.
You're pushing the broken windows theory of warfare. Any war is bad for the country involved. It consumes wealth at a horrible pace. Do you think the average Russian will like seeing his standard of living destroyed to salve Putin's ego?
In any case, a country like Russia lacks the economy to sustain what they're doing. They can't even replace the chips they need for their guided missiles. Why do you think they're using Iranian drones? Because they're the world's best? They're losing tanks and tank crews at an unsustainable pace.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:42 AM (eOEVl)
149
That's just 5 billion per year. That's a pretty amazing investment and I can't think of any weapons system or program of ours that can do the same for cheaper.
Posted by: Obscure at November 25, 2022 11:19 AM (NQmCT)
This is a ridiculous way of looking at things. The longer the war persists, the more robust the Russian supply chain for future conflicts.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 11:36
I don't think it is ridiculous, especially seeing how Russian tactics are not evolving and their supply chain seems to be getting worse.
I think you are neglecting the overwhelming paper advantage that the Russians had. That they were unable to take advantage of that is a testament to structural flaws in their war doctrine, recruitment, training, technology, etc.
Posted by: Obscure at November 25, 2022 11:19 AM (NQmCT)
This is a ridiculous way of looking at things. The longer the war persists, the more robust the Russian supply chain for future conflicts.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 11:36
I don't think it is ridiculous, especially seeing how Russian tactics are not evolving and their supply chain seems to be getting worse.
I think you are neglecting the overwhelming paper advantage that the Russians had. That they were unable to take advantage of that is a testament to structural flaws in their war doctrine, recruitment, training, technology, etc.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 25, 2022 11:42 AM (XIJ/X)
150
I was at Jever Flugplatz for a Checkered Flag exercise.
Posted by: Minuteman at November 25, 2022 11:42 AM (WnIQd)
Posted by: Shemp Smith at November 25, 2022 11:43 AM (acDUg)
152
"If Ukraine Alone Can Repel Russia, Why Are American Troops Still Needed to Protect Germany & Western Europe?"
Because Ukraine is far from doing this "alone". Aside from the international sanctions against Russia after the invasion, they have been getting billions worth of material/tech and, to a smaller extent, manpower, from outside Ukraine. That, combined with Russia's obvious incompetence, is what's prevailing here.
Because Ukraine is far from doing this "alone". Aside from the international sanctions against Russia after the invasion, they have been getting billions worth of material/tech and, to a smaller extent, manpower, from outside Ukraine. That, combined with Russia's obvious incompetence, is what's prevailing here.
Posted by: Scott M at November 25, 2022 11:43 AM (vtKAA)
153
Where Were You on November 9, 1989?
Speaking of the fall of the Iron Curtain, do the events of November 1989 still resonate with any of you as one of the epochal moments of your lifetime?
I was in 8th grade, 3 months from turning 14 years old. I did not watch the news at all. My entire world back then was sports, playing sports and dealing with my insecurity and shyness and complete lack of social skills (which all remain 33 years later).
I would not become politically aware of anything until the morning of 09/11/2001, 12 years later, at age 26. That was the epochal moment of my lifetime and changed me forever. I went from blissfully ignorant of politics to it eventually completely taking over my life and turning me from naively optimistic and hopeful of the future to completely cynical, angry and seeing no hope for the future.
Speaking of the fall of the Iron Curtain, do the events of November 1989 still resonate with any of you as one of the epochal moments of your lifetime?
I was in 8th grade, 3 months from turning 14 years old. I did not watch the news at all. My entire world back then was sports, playing sports and dealing with my insecurity and shyness and complete lack of social skills (which all remain 33 years later).
I would not become politically aware of anything until the morning of 09/11/2001, 12 years later, at age 26. That was the epochal moment of my lifetime and changed me forever. I went from blissfully ignorant of politics to it eventually completely taking over my life and turning me from naively optimistic and hopeful of the future to completely cynical, angry and seeing no hope for the future.
Posted by: Clyde Shelton at November 25, 2022 11:43 AM (Do5/p)
154
USSR and USA both lost the Cold War. Sure, the Soviet Union crumbled first but it successfully injected the communist polonium into our system long before then. Now USA and all of Western Civ is dying of that cancer.
Posted by: No Shirt Shylock at November 25, 2022 11:39 AM (PWI4f)
Marxism and International communism started their global push soon after 1917. And before that we had the Anarchists who joined forces with the commies.
Posted by: No Shirt Shylock at November 25, 2022 11:39 AM (PWI4f)
Marxism and International communism started their global push soon after 1917. And before that we had the Anarchists who joined forces with the commies.
Posted by: polynikes at November 25, 2022 11:43 AM (nBhwo)
155
Now lookee here Mister. How are we supposed to get fat if you dissolve NATO as unnecessary? Besides, what makes you think Vlad doesn't have some immensely competent mobile infantry and tank divisions secretly stashed in some underground base just waiting for you to be lulled into a false sense of security??!?!?!!!!
Posted by: Bert Ripper, Gen'l Ret'd, CEO Raytheon at November 25, 2022 11:43 AM (5XQFY)
156
>>Where Were You on November 9, 1989?
I could have been doing one of several things, sleeping, behind a rack wiring, repairing equipment on a bench, installing equipment or eating.
Sometimes all at the same time.
I could have been doing one of several things, sleeping, behind a rack wiring, repairing equipment on a bench, installing equipment or eating.
Sometimes all at the same time.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at November 25, 2022 11:43 AM (up/3i)
157
My read on it is a little different. Lefty activist types know the result of what they want is Venezuela or Cambodia. They are fine with that as long as they are the ones in power.
Lefty LIVs don't care. They want gubmint checks and will vote for whoever gives it to them.
Posted by: 18-1 at November 25, 2022 11:30 AM (ESjRY)
-------
Indeed. The greatest & most powerful & destructive army ever assembled has been The Free Shit Army.
Lefty LIVs don't care. They want gubmint checks and will vote for whoever gives it to them.
Posted by: 18-1 at November 25, 2022 11:30 AM (ESjRY)
-------
Indeed. The greatest & most powerful & destructive army ever assembled has been The Free Shit Army.
Posted by: ShainS -- The Humiliation is Part of the Kink at November 25, 2022 11:43 AM (ynBkT)
158
The day the Berlin Wall fell we was watching it on TV at Vito's Black and Blue Bar and Grill
Drinking Boilermakers with Angelo and Bobby no neck
You got a problem wit dat?
Bobby stole a truckload of sledgehammers. We shipped them over and made a ton of money.
Just doing our patriotic Duty.
Drinking Boilermakers with Angelo and Bobby no neck
You got a problem wit dat?
Bobby stole a truckload of sledgehammers. We shipped them over and made a ton of money.
Just doing our patriotic Duty.
Posted by: I'm Gumby Damnit! at November 25, 2022 11:44 AM (QzPUP)
159
What's sad is that a lot of East Germans longed for the old East Germany . Freedom is hard !!
An interesting thing is that people in the former East Germany are still almost completely irreligious.
Russia was Communist for seventy years, and the Russian Orthodox Church sprang back to societal prominence very rapidly once Communism was removed. East German Protestantism, not so much.
An interesting thing is that people in the former East Germany are still almost completely irreligious.
Russia was Communist for seventy years, and the Russian Orthodox Church sprang back to societal prominence very rapidly once Communism was removed. East German Protestantism, not so much.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:44 AM (KCOCK)
160
USSR and USA both lost the Cold War. Sure, the Soviet Union crumbled first but it successfully injected the communist polonium into our system long before then. Now USA and all of Western Civ is dying of that cancer.
Posted by: No Shirt Shylock
__
I know this is a popular theory, but I honestly don't believe that our current problems with Leftism in America have anything to do with some sort of secret USSR project. These young people are doing it all on their own.
If anything, I would wager most actual, former KGB agents are now to the right of the average American under 30.
Posted by: No Shirt Shylock
__
I know this is a popular theory, but I honestly don't believe that our current problems with Leftism in America have anything to do with some sort of secret USSR project. These young people are doing it all on their own.
If anything, I would wager most actual, former KGB agents are now to the right of the average American under 30.
Posted by: Blago at November 25, 2022 11:44 AM (PwNLq)
161
That's a pretty amazing investment and I can't think of any weapons system or program of ours that can do the same for cheaper.
Assuming that it doesn't trigger off World War Three, of course.
Yeah, because letting aggressive dictators march into other countries did such a bang-up job of preventing WWII.
Assuming that it doesn't trigger off World War Three, of course.
Yeah, because letting aggressive dictators march into other countries did such a bang-up job of preventing WWII.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:44 AM (eOEVl)
162
"As a child of the Cold War, I fully expected to die killing communists, I just didn't expect them to be my fellow Americans." Posted by: G'rump928
imo this is why DeepState Mafia goes so hard after OathKeepers (and maybe Proud Boys) ... because there are a lot of (former?) military and cops there, still intent on saving America from the leftist mobs.
imo this is why DeepState Mafia goes so hard after OathKeepers (and maybe Proud Boys) ... because there are a lot of (former?) military and cops there, still intent on saving America from the leftist mobs.
Posted by: illiniwek at November 25, 2022 11:44 AM (Cus5s)
163
>Where Were You on November 9, 1989?
still married- I like to think I was giving the missus what for that day
still married- I like to think I was giving the missus what for that day
Posted by: DB at November 25, 2022 11:45 AM (geLO8)
164
I was just about to get married, and we were going to London for our honeymoon. We tacked on a few days in West Berlin and hacked away at the Wall. I was able to get pebbles, my husband was able to get chunks. Kind of weird for a honeymoon, I know, but both of us said we absolutely have to do this.
Posted by: bluebell at November 25, 2022 11:45 AM (pTb/Z)
165
Where Were You on November 9, 1989?
It was my birthday, and probably had no fucks to give.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at November 25, 2022 11:42 AM (VwHCD)
A belated Happy Birthday!
It was my birthday, and probably had no fucks to give.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at November 25, 2022 11:42 AM (VwHCD)
A belated Happy Birthday!
Posted by: polynikes at November 25, 2022 11:46 AM (nBhwo)
166
SMH @ 144-
I rate that 100% probable.
I rate that 100% probable.
Posted by: Eromero at November 25, 2022 11:46 AM (z3WCn)
167
I was a senior in high school when the wall came down. I traveled to Germany the following summer. I have a piece of the wall. It was so strange to see the mix of Western German cars and Eastern German cars on the roads. Also, the family I stayed with was very worried about merging the economies. I was too young to really care about it then. Germany won the World Cup that year too. It was a crazy time to be there.
Posted by: Quirky bookworm at November 25, 2022 11:46 AM (gBvlU)
168
Don't remember on a lot of those dates, but today marks birthdays for both JFK, Jr., and Augosto Pinochet, two giants in aviation.
Posted by: Wally at November 25, 2022 11:33 AM (e8LQ4)
-------
Speaking of "Ouch." And I'm going to hell for laughing at that ...
Posted by: Wally at November 25, 2022 11:33 AM (e8LQ4)
-------
Speaking of "Ouch." And I'm going to hell for laughing at that ...
Posted by: ShainS -- The Humiliation is Part of the Kink at November 25, 2022 11:46 AM (ynBkT)
169
In 1989 I was being put onto this insane timeline we are on today. One where the USSR won the Cold War and the appratchik progressvie ctrl-left took over the American Govt.
Posted by: Fisht at November 25, 2022 11:46 AM (ZRarh)
170
You're pushing the broken windows theory of warfare. Any war is bad for the country involved. It consumes wealth at a horrible pace. Do you think the average Russian will like seeing his standard of living destroyed to salve Putin's ego?
In any case, a country like Russia lacks the economy to sustain what they're doing.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:42 AM (eOEVl)
GDP and military readiness are two different things. If the war ended today, both Ukraine and Russia would have a lot more veterans and up to date theories of warfare than they did in January. They will also both integrate these better than western observers(who will most likely only belatedly learn these lessons at the start of the next war).
What constitutes an unsustainable equipment loss rate at the beginning of a war becomes completely viable later in the war, particularly towards the closing years.
Countries don't start their wars with sufficient supply chains.
Russia doesn't lack the economy(this isn't a money/labor issue), it lacks the specific industry. We also wouldn't be able to sustain that level of equipment spend immediately, but would build it out if we needed to.
You're pushing the broken windows theory of warfare. Any war is bad for the country involved. It consumes wealth at a horrible pace. Do you think the average Russian will like seeing his standard of living destroyed to salve Putin's ego?
In any case, a country like Russia lacks the economy to sustain what they're doing.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:42 AM (eOEVl)
GDP and military readiness are two different things. If the war ended today, both Ukraine and Russia would have a lot more veterans and up to date theories of warfare than they did in January. They will also both integrate these better than western observers(who will most likely only belatedly learn these lessons at the start of the next war).
What constitutes an unsustainable equipment loss rate at the beginning of a war becomes completely viable later in the war, particularly towards the closing years.
Countries don't start their wars with sufficient supply chains.
Russia doesn't lack the economy(this isn't a money/labor issue), it lacks the specific industry. We also wouldn't be able to sustain that level of equipment spend immediately, but would build it out if we needed to.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 11:47 AM (eYoxG)
171
The remarkable thing about the Berlin Wall (as a symbol) is that everything happened so quickly. On November 9, 1988 would you have bet that in three years everything we were furiously defending against would disappear like a popped soap bubble?
The remarkable thing about the Berlin Wall (as a symbol) is that everything happened so quickly. On November 9, 1988 would you have bet that in three years everything we were furiously defending against would disappear like a popped soap bubble?
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at November 25, 2022 11:47 AM (MoZTd)
172
I know this is a popular theory, but I honestly don't believe that our current problems with Leftism in America have anything to do with some sort of secret USSR project. These young people are doing it all on their own.
Some of both, I think. Young people today are being indoctrinated from an early age, but playing with Leftism is also a disease of affluence. They do it because they don't believe it will ever really hurt them, and it won't, until it does.
Some of both, I think. Young people today are being indoctrinated from an early age, but playing with Leftism is also a disease of affluence. They do it because they don't believe it will ever really hurt them, and it won't, until it does.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:47 AM (eOEVl)
Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea at November 25, 2022 11:48 AM (AuTCi)
174
Also, where were you when the Berlin Wall fell?
Not married. No girlfriend. Never even had one at the time.
Also, where were you when the Berlin Wall fell?
Not married. No girlfriend. Never even had one at the time.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at November 25, 2022 11:48 AM (MoZTd)
175
I don't think it is ridiculous, especially seeing how Russian tactics are not evolving and their supply chain seems to be getting worse.
Not clear yet. Putin got himself a new commanding general, who immediately did a strategic withdrawal from Kherson to improve Russian logistics, and the 300,000 people mobilized have been training for several months, waiting for the ground to freeze, which would allow the resumption of offensive operations.
Meanwhile, the Russians are massively taking out Ukrainian infrastructure, and don't seem to be running out of drones and missiles.
We'll see how this winter goes.
Not clear yet. Putin got himself a new commanding general, who immediately did a strategic withdrawal from Kherson to improve Russian logistics, and the 300,000 people mobilized have been training for several months, waiting for the ground to freeze, which would allow the resumption of offensive operations.
Meanwhile, the Russians are massively taking out Ukrainian infrastructure, and don't seem to be running out of drones and missiles.
We'll see how this winter goes.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:49 AM (KCOCK)
176
Put it this way. Every month Russia is bogged down in Ukraine, it sets their military back a year. By that math, it will be 20 years before they're able to threaten anyone again. For the cost of 100 billion, we get 20 years of peace in Europe. That's just 5 billion per year. That's a pretty amazing investment and I can't think of any weapons system or program of ours that can do the same for cheaper.
---
This is some Common Core Woke Math. Jeez.
1) How many years was Russia set back by being bogged down in Afghanistan?
2) How many years has the US been set back by being bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq?
3) How many years was Germany set back by losing WWI?
Confident predictions, like this, of the future based on linear calculations from a small present dataset are as valid as lottery predictions.
---
This is some Common Core Woke Math. Jeez.
1) How many years was Russia set back by being bogged down in Afghanistan?
2) How many years has the US been set back by being bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq?
3) How many years was Germany set back by losing WWI?
Confident predictions, like this, of the future based on linear calculations from a small present dataset are as valid as lottery predictions.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at November 25, 2022 11:49 AM (5EnGD)
177
Without Moscow to call home to anymore, our Communists had to pivot. But it's not as if they stopped being Communists.
The USSR initiated the subversion of our institutions that eventually led to the GOP embracing drag queens grooming kids in schools as a Blessing of Liberty.
The student exceeded the master.
Without Moscow to call home to anymore, our Communists had to pivot. But it's not as if they stopped being Communists.
The USSR initiated the subversion of our institutions that eventually led to the GOP embracing drag queens grooming kids in schools as a Blessing of Liberty.
The student exceeded the master.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 25, 2022 11:49 AM (oINRc)
178
One of my strongest memories was when GHWB sent troops into Iraq and the spectacular parade in Washington DC that followed.
Posted by: Moonbeam at November 25, 2022 11:49 AM (rbKZ6)
179
NPR shukkin' an jivin' this morning to explain why "red flag" laws don't stop mass killers. Bottom line - it's the cops' fault!
Somebody tell these dickwads that cops don't decide not to prosecute perps - prosecutors do!
And cops don't decide to seal criminal records and prevent somebody from showing up on a background check - judges do!
And cops don't decide to let kids get bullied by out-of-control punks in school - principals and teachers to.
And cops don't decide to defund mental health hospitals - legislatures do!
Somebody tell these dickwads that cops don't decide not to prosecute perps - prosecutors do!
And cops don't decide to seal criminal records and prevent somebody from showing up on a background check - judges do!
And cops don't decide to let kids get bullied by out-of-control punks in school - principals and teachers to.
And cops don't decide to defund mental health hospitals - legislatures do!
Posted by: Ray Van Dune at November 25, 2022 11:50 AM (hRbjX)
180
In any case, a country like Russia lacks the economy to sustain what they're doing.
The Western European economy is collapsing considerably faster than the Russian economy is.
The Western European economy is collapsing considerably faster than the Russian economy is.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:51 AM (KCOCK)
181
All I know is that China is smiling
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 25, 2022 11:51 AM (dO/0d)
182
Elon Musk @elonmusk
Removing child exploitation is priority #1. Please reply in comments if you see anything that Twitter needs to address.
Incitement to violence will result in account suspension
Andy Ngo:
How do we best inform Twitter of these violations? I've been reporting on specific accounts for years & pretty much all of them remain. Last year Antifa used Twitter to direct comrades to swarm me after I ran into a hotel following a violent street beating:
Elon Musk:
That is a disturbing story and very concerning that Twitter took no action, despite clear violation of ToS. Report in this thread for now.
http://bit.ly/3U5KAcK
Removing child exploitation is priority #1. Please reply in comments if you see anything that Twitter needs to address.
Incitement to violence will result in account suspension
Andy Ngo:
How do we best inform Twitter of these violations? I've been reporting on specific accounts for years & pretty much all of them remain. Last year Antifa used Twitter to direct comrades to swarm me after I ran into a hotel following a violent street beating:
Elon Musk:
That is a disturbing story and very concerning that Twitter took no action, despite clear violation of ToS. Report in this thread for now.
http://bit.ly/3U5KAcK
Posted by: Clyde Shelton at November 25, 2022 11:51 AM (Do5/p)
183
Russia doesn't lack the economy(this isn't a money/labor issue), it lacks the specific industry.
I think you just made my point. Furthermore, the average Russian at the end of WWII lived at a very poor level. The Russians stripped East Germany of any and machinery to try and jump start their obliterated economy.
In any case, you haven't explained why the Russians are stripping home appliances for chips, and why they are using Iranian military equipment, and why their soldiers have to buy their own uniforms and ballistic vests, and why they're using ancient equipment (when they have any at all), and why they're bringing 60's era tanks out of mothballs.
I think you just made my point. Furthermore, the average Russian at the end of WWII lived at a very poor level. The Russians stripped East Germany of any and machinery to try and jump start their obliterated economy.
In any case, you haven't explained why the Russians are stripping home appliances for chips, and why they are using Iranian military equipment, and why their soldiers have to buy their own uniforms and ballistic vests, and why they're using ancient equipment (when they have any at all), and why they're bringing 60's era tanks out of mothballs.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:51 AM (eOEVl)
184
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 25, 2022 11:49 AM (oINRc)
Yes the Frankfort School set up base here when they fled Germany.
Yes the Frankfort School set up base here when they fled Germany.
Posted by: polynikes at November 25, 2022 11:52 AM (nBhwo)
185
180 "In any case, a country like Russia lacks the economy to sustain what they're doing."
The Western European economy is collapsing considerably faster than the Russian economy is.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:51 AM (KCOCK)
What critical imports does Russia get from the west after all? Joking about blue jeans and ipods aside, probably only capital equipment, which they can delay and substitute to some degree. They don't suffer immediate food or energy shortages from it.
The Western European economy is collapsing considerably faster than the Russian economy is.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:51 AM (KCOCK)
What critical imports does Russia get from the west after all? Joking about blue jeans and ipods aside, probably only capital equipment, which they can delay and substitute to some degree. They don't suffer immediate food or energy shortages from it.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 11:52 AM (eYoxG)
186
why they're bringing 60's era tanks out of mothballs.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:51 AM (eOEVl)
Comeback for the P-39!
why they're bringing 60's era tanks out of mothballs.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:51 AM (eOEVl)
Comeback for the P-39!
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at November 25, 2022 11:52 AM (MoZTd)
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:53 AM (KCOCK)
188
They don't suffer immediate food or energy shortages from it.
___
What's funny is that the sanctions aren't hurting the Russians.
They're hurting us.
___
What's funny is that the sanctions aren't hurting the Russians.
They're hurting us.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:53 AM (BLZx2)
189
183 "Russia doesn't lack the economy(this isn't a money/labor issue), it lacks the specific industry."
I think you just made my point. Furthermore, the average Russian at the end of WWII lived at a very poor level. The Russians stripped East Germany of any and machinery to try and jump start their obliterated economy.
In any case, you haven't explained why the Russians are stripping home appliances for chips, and why they are using Iranian military equipment, and why their soldiers have to buy their own uniforms and ballistic vests, and why they're using ancient equipment (when they have any at all), and why they're bringing 60's era tanks out of mothballs.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:51 AM (eOEVl)
We also lack the specific industry. Are you missing that not being able to churn out military equipment at the start of WW2 didn't meant we wouldn't be able to by the end of it? (though we did get a headstart with lend-lease.
Nobody maintains a large military supply chain for decades of peace. The German army in the years after invading France was more modern than before.
I think you just made my point. Furthermore, the average Russian at the end of WWII lived at a very poor level. The Russians stripped East Germany of any and machinery to try and jump start their obliterated economy.
In any case, you haven't explained why the Russians are stripping home appliances for chips, and why they are using Iranian military equipment, and why their soldiers have to buy their own uniforms and ballistic vests, and why they're using ancient equipment (when they have any at all), and why they're bringing 60's era tanks out of mothballs.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:51 AM (eOEVl)
We also lack the specific industry. Are you missing that not being able to churn out military equipment at the start of WW2 didn't meant we wouldn't be able to by the end of it? (though we did get a headstart with lend-lease.
Nobody maintains a large military supply chain for decades of peace. The German army in the years after invading France was more modern than before.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 11:54 AM (eYoxG)
190
1) How many years was Russia set back by being bogged down in Afghanistan?
Who knows? Their economy is a black box. They no longer even tell you their fertility rate, because it's so bad.
2) How many years has the US been set back by being bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq?
Are you suggesting that our expenditure of $6T didn't have an impact on our economy?
3) How many years was Germany set back by losing WWI?
Probably many. Also, how much was it set back by WWII? Or are you suggesting that flattening the entire country, including their industry, and killing off a third of their military age males, didn't have a negative impact?
Who knows? Their economy is a black box. They no longer even tell you their fertility rate, because it's so bad.
2) How many years has the US been set back by being bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq?
Are you suggesting that our expenditure of $6T didn't have an impact on our economy?
3) How many years was Germany set back by losing WWI?
Probably many. Also, how much was it set back by WWII? Or are you suggesting that flattening the entire country, including their industry, and killing off a third of their military age males, didn't have a negative impact?
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:55 AM (eOEVl)
191
I know this is a popular theory, but I honestly don't believe that our current problems with Leftism in America have anything to do with some sort of secret USSR project. These young people are doing it all on their own.
-
We have an overabundance of stupid, evil, narcissism.
-
We have an overabundance of stupid, evil, narcissism.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 25, 2022 11:55 AM (FVME7)
192
I think the bigger event in 1989 was the crushing of the Tiananmen Square Protests in China. June 4, 1989.
And after the Chinese massacred all those people? We gave them trade and Most Favored Nation Status. We had to counter that huge Soviet Juggernaut.
And after the Chinese massacred all those people? We gave them trade and Most Favored Nation Status. We had to counter that huge Soviet Juggernaut.
Posted by: rd at November 25, 2022 11:55 AM (Z32m1)
193
Remember the "peace dividend?" Good times. Good times.
Posted by: Quarter Twenty at November 25, 2022 11:56 AM (DhOHl)
194
It also let Americans feel comfortable with putting a Democrat in the White House.
A big reason why Americans voted for a Republican in the WH was the Cold War and foreign policy.
But now, even after a humiliating spectacle like we had in Afghanistan, American voters will probably give Biden and Democrats another term.
Posted by: Blago at November 25, 2022 11:40 AM (PwNLq)
-------
Good point. This is one of those threads in which I've seen a lot of excellent insights ... gotta love this place, and thank you to all those veterans (didn't realize so many of you were -- but shouldn't be surprised on this here smart military blog).
A big reason why Americans voted for a Republican in the WH was the Cold War and foreign policy.
But now, even after a humiliating spectacle like we had in Afghanistan, American voters will probably give Biden and Democrats another term.
Posted by: Blago at November 25, 2022 11:40 AM (PwNLq)
-------
Good point. This is one of those threads in which I've seen a lot of excellent insights ... gotta love this place, and thank you to all those veterans (didn't realize so many of you were -- but shouldn't be surprised on this here smart military blog).
Posted by: ShainS -- The Humiliation is Part of the Kink at November 25, 2022 11:56 AM (ynBkT)
195
The remarkable thing about the Berlin Wall (as a symbol) is that everything happened so quickly. On November 9, 1988 would you have bet that in three years everything we were furiously defending against would disappear like a popped soap bubble?
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at November 25, 2022 11:47 AM (MoZTd
As someone who on several occasions rode a PC up and down a segment of the East/west border, my reaction was the same.
It happened so quickly that it still boggles my mind.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at November 25, 2022 11:47 AM (MoZTd
As someone who on several occasions rode a PC up and down a segment of the East/west border, my reaction was the same.
It happened so quickly that it still boggles my mind.
Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at November 25, 2022 11:56 AM (BdMk6)
196
The remarkable thing about the Berlin Wall (as a symbol) is that everything happened so quickly. On November 9, 1988 would you have bet that in three years everything we were furiously defending against would disappear like a popped soap bubble?
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at November 25, 2022 11:47 AM (MoZTd)
And that just ten years after that we'd be looking at the still smoldering rubble of the WTC, Pentagon, and Flight 93 and asking "WTF?!"
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at November 25, 2022 11:47 AM (MoZTd)
And that just ten years after that we'd be looking at the still smoldering rubble of the WTC, Pentagon, and Flight 93 and asking "WTF?!"
Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (Gringo fuertemente armado-Tempus belli) at November 25, 2022 11:57 AM (l7Kbv)
197
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:51 AM (eOEVl)
The truth of those claims are somewhere in the middle range of exaggeration.
The truth of those claims are somewhere in the middle range of exaggeration.
Posted by: polynikes at November 25, 2022 11:57 AM (nBhwo)
198
We also lack the specific industry. Are you missing that not being able to churn out military equipment at the start of WW2 didn't meant we wouldn't be able to by the end of it? (though we did get a headstart with lend-lease.
We were able to do that because we had a pre-existing industrial base which could be repurposed for military production. The Russians don't. Much of the equipment that sustained them came from us.
We were able to do that because we had a pre-existing industrial base which could be repurposed for military production. The Russians don't. Much of the equipment that sustained them came from us.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:57 AM (eOEVl)
199
Pretty straightforward: we're pouring money into Ukraine so we don't have to put boots on the ground. The Europeans are doing at least a little part - some more than others - but we're rapidly turning the continent into even more of a militarily dependent appendage on the US than they were before. Meanwhile, they're also becoming more economically reliant on us, as well, especially as their major industrial companies either relocate to the US or just lose business to US-based firms.
And yes, for the time being, our federal government and several state governments still have the energy policies of twelve year olds who idolized Greta, but reality is about to knock some sense into them.
And yes, for the time being, our federal government and several state governments still have the energy policies of twelve year olds who idolized Greta, but reality is about to knock some sense into them.
Posted by: Chris Valentine at November 25, 2022 11:57 AM (0/nRH)
200
188 They don't suffer immediate food or energy shortages from it.
___
What's funny is that the sanctions aren't hurting the Russians.
They're hurting us.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:53 AM (BLZx2)
Hey SMH. Leaving aside the geopolitcal armchair quarterbacking here at the HQ for a moment - How are you feeling today?? More concerned about that.
___
What's funny is that the sanctions aren't hurting the Russians.
They're hurting us.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:53 AM (BLZx2)
Hey SMH. Leaving aside the geopolitcal armchair quarterbacking here at the HQ for a moment - How are you feeling today?? More concerned about that.
Posted by: kraken at November 25, 2022 11:57 AM (Vr12I)
201
2) How many years has the US been set back by being bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq?
Are you suggesting that our expenditure of $6T didn't have an impact on our economy?
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:55 AM (eOEVl)
Iraq increased our military readiness, defense industry, and militarization though. The year 2000 US military couldn't beat the year 2008 US military. As we are now at peace, the military is declining and country generally demilitarizing.
Are you suggesting that our expenditure of $6T didn't have an impact on our economy?
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:55 AM (eOEVl)
Iraq increased our military readiness, defense industry, and militarization though. The year 2000 US military couldn't beat the year 2008 US military. As we are now at peace, the military is declining and country generally demilitarizing.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 11:58 AM (eYoxG)
202
In any case, you haven't explained why the Russians are stripping home appliances for chips
Unverified war propaganda. Russia can easily buy low-level computer chips from India and China.
and why they are using Iranian military equipment
Because the Iranian equipment is very effective? We were putting British engines into P-51s in WWII. That doesn't mean that we weren't self-sufficient.
and why their soldiers have to buy their own uniforms and ballistic vests
Incompetence in the mobilization machinery. Russia has enough money to buy uniforms, remarkably.
and why they're using ancient equipment (when they have any at all), and why they're bringing 60's era tanks out of mothballs.
When anyone actually spots a T-55 on the battlefield, let me know.
Unverified war propaganda. Russia can easily buy low-level computer chips from India and China.
and why they are using Iranian military equipment
Because the Iranian equipment is very effective? We were putting British engines into P-51s in WWII. That doesn't mean that we weren't self-sufficient.
and why their soldiers have to buy their own uniforms and ballistic vests
Incompetence in the mobilization machinery. Russia has enough money to buy uniforms, remarkably.
and why they're using ancient equipment (when they have any at all), and why they're bringing 60's era tanks out of mothballs.
When anyone actually spots a T-55 on the battlefield, let me know.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:59 AM (KCOCK)
203
SSDD, kraken, except with aches and a fever.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:59 AM (BLZx2)
204
A good way to explain how this socialism crap got here is the education system... For example...
Railroad strikes?
Gen X - welp, better stock up, just in case.
Millennial- don't be stupid, the stuff comes from a store, not a train.
Gen Z - I hope you die from the lack of your disgusting capitalism.
My millennial son - yeh stocking up is a good idea
My gen z daughter - where are we gonna put everything? Don't forget that the tampons!
My kids didn't get indoctrinated
Railroad strikes?
Gen X - welp, better stock up, just in case.
Millennial- don't be stupid, the stuff comes from a store, not a train.
Gen Z - I hope you die from the lack of your disgusting capitalism.
My millennial son - yeh stocking up is a good idea
My gen z daughter - where are we gonna put everything? Don't forget that the tampons!
My kids didn't get indoctrinated
Posted by: Madamemayhem (uppity wench) at November 25, 2022 11:59 AM (Wy1BU)
205
Russians are stripping home appliances for chips,
‐------
I have not seen this credibly reported anywhere, nor do I believe that it is technically plausible. More propaganda BS.
‐------
I have not seen this credibly reported anywhere, nor do I believe that it is technically plausible. More propaganda BS.
Posted by: BunkerintheBurbs at November 25, 2022 11:59 AM (WD0jw)
206
Three people who each played a key role in ending the Cold War:
A B-list Hollywood actor,
A Roman priest, and
A shipyard electrician.
A B-list Hollywood actor,
A Roman priest, and
A shipyard electrician.
Posted by: Quarter Twenty at November 25, 2022 12:00 PM (DhOHl)
207
Might not have been Russia that defeated America but it was damn sure communists. With their allies in the pervert/political/academic league, of course.
Posted by: Eromero at November 25, 2022 12:00 PM (z3WCn)
208
Kind of wish the wall was still up so others could experience that lesson also.
I think the Czechs still do "Communism Day", where part of Wenceslas Square is turned into a parody of Communist society, just to remind people.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:41 AM (KCOCK)
-------
We should mimic that here. Maybe a revolving "[Fill in the Urban Shithhole] Day" ... start with "San Francisco Day" (where you'll have to import tons of excrement, drugs, homeless lunatics, and hypodermic needles).
I think the Czechs still do "Communism Day", where part of Wenceslas Square is turned into a parody of Communist society, just to remind people.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 11:41 AM (KCOCK)
-------
We should mimic that here. Maybe a revolving "[Fill in the Urban Shithhole] Day" ... start with "San Francisco Day" (where you'll have to import tons of excrement, drugs, homeless lunatics, and hypodermic needles).
Posted by: ShainS -- The Humiliation is Part of the Kink at November 25, 2022 12:00 PM (ynBkT)
209
203 SSDD, kraken, except with aches and a fever.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:59 AM (BLZx2)
God bless and keep you. Will keep praying for healing.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 11:59 AM (BLZx2)
God bless and keep you. Will keep praying for healing.
Posted by: kraken at November 25, 2022 12:00 PM (Vr12I)
210
My thinking is academia driving Marxism
Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2022 12:00 PM (xhxe8)
211
Thanks, kraken.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 12:00 PM (BLZx2)
212
In any case, you haven't explained why the Russians are stripping home appliances for chips, and why they are using Iranian military equipment, and why their soldiers have to buy their own uniforms and ballistic vests, and why they're using ancient equipment (when they have any at all), and why they're bringing 60's era tanks out of mothballs.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:51 AM (eOEVl)
The point was not about the current situation, but the problems revealed for future addressing. If you haven't been fighting, you don't know all that isn't going to work.
As I see it, unless the Russians quit, the Ukraine cannot win in the long run, ie, expel the Russians from all former Ukrainian territory, without the West directly intervening.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:51 AM (eOEVl)
The point was not about the current situation, but the problems revealed for future addressing. If you haven't been fighting, you don't know all that isn't going to work.
As I see it, unless the Russians quit, the Ukraine cannot win in the long run, ie, expel the Russians from all former Ukrainian territory, without the West directly intervening.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 12:00 PM (hwaFC)
213
We were able to do that because we had a pre-existing industrial base which could be repurposed for military production. The Russians don't. Much of the equipment that sustained them came from us.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:57 AM (eOEVl)
We're not in the early 1900s anymore. Other countries do have appreciably sized industrial bases and can sustain themselves outside the US sphere. Russian manufacturing is pretty significant, around 15% of their economy.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 11:57 AM (eOEVl)
We're not in the early 1900s anymore. Other countries do have appreciably sized industrial bases and can sustain themselves outside the US sphere. Russian manufacturing is pretty significant, around 15% of their economy.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 12:01 PM (eYoxG)
214
Russia has a lot, really a lot of border to consider. Not every country on it is an ally. Stripping military hardware and resources from the southern and eastern military districts wouldn't be prudent.
But the western front gets the attention from Putin because NATO, at least some of it, has to wag their dick in his face.
The junta, and by extension it's *biden's dick we're talking about is really an affront to dicks.
But the western front gets the attention from Putin because NATO, at least some of it, has to wag their dick in his face.
The junta, and by extension it's *biden's dick we're talking about is really an affront to dicks.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at November 25, 2022 12:02 PM (Q4IgG)
215
Nov. 9, 1989 was my mother's 54th birthday and I was in ROTC here in S.F.
Been saying it's time to dissolve NATO since the early 90's. Isn't there a law of grift that it keeps expanding until somethingorother?
Been saying it's time to dissolve NATO since the early 90's. Isn't there a law of grift that it keeps expanding until somethingorother?
Posted by: SFGoth at November 25, 2022 12:02 PM (KAi1n)
216
One thing that gets ignored in the claims that "sanctions are wrecking the Russian economy" is that sanctions against Russia are largely limited to white countries.
Even Japan is buying more oil from the Russians than it did pre-war.
Turns out that when you have China and India as suppliers, you can still import most things.
Even Japan is buying more oil from the Russians than it did pre-war.
Turns out that when you have China and India as suppliers, you can still import most things.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 12:02 PM (KCOCK)
217
65 seems to me, this isn't the same Russian army that fought back from Stalingrad all the way to Berlin
No-one was really interested in telling you this for many decades because some wanted to burnish the reputation of Soviet Communism, and some wanted to push the military might of the USSR to win funding for western militaries, but what Lend Lease really did was provide the Soviets with food and transport so they could focus on building tanks and planes and not worry about support. Germans were better, but not consistently 7-10 times better which is what they would have had to keep up not to be swamped. Didn't help the Germans any that they were so stuck on their Untermenchen crap that they made even the Russians who hated Moscow fight against them cause even though the Soviets didn't worry much about whether Russians got killed, they didn't actively seek to kill them.all as official policy.
No-one was really interested in telling you this for many decades because some wanted to burnish the reputation of Soviet Communism, and some wanted to push the military might of the USSR to win funding for western militaries, but what Lend Lease really did was provide the Soviets with food and transport so they could focus on building tanks and planes and not worry about support. Germans were better, but not consistently 7-10 times better which is what they would have had to keep up not to be swamped. Didn't help the Germans any that they were so stuck on their Untermenchen crap that they made even the Russians who hated Moscow fight against them cause even though the Soviets didn't worry much about whether Russians got killed, they didn't actively seek to kill them.all as official policy.
Posted by: azjaeger at November 25, 2022 12:02 PM (3/XaG)
218
In any case, you haven't explained why the Russians are stripping home appliances for chips
Unverified war propaganda. Russia can easily buy low-level computer chips from India and China.
Of course. Everything is propaganda.
Iand why they are using Iranian military equipment
Because the Iranian equipment is very effective? We were putting British engines into P-51s in WWII. That doesn't mean that we weren't self-sufficient.
We put Merlin engines in the P-51 because they were better than the underpowered American engines. Britain was a rough technological peer. We were self-sufficient, but they had the better engine.
Unverified war propaganda. Russia can easily buy low-level computer chips from India and China.
Of course. Everything is propaganda.
Iand why they are using Iranian military equipment
Because the Iranian equipment is very effective? We were putting British engines into P-51s in WWII. That doesn't mean that we weren't self-sufficient.
We put Merlin engines in the P-51 because they were better than the underpowered American engines. Britain was a rough technological peer. We were self-sufficient, but they had the better engine.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:03 PM (eOEVl)
219
Speaking of the Berlin Wall, the government of East Germany referred to it as the Anti-Fascist Protection Rampart. (Antifaschistischer Schutzwall)
Something to remember next time some idiot says antifa is against fascism and therefore everything they do is good: Who could oppose a protection rampart that’s against fascism!!!!!!
Something to remember next time some idiot says antifa is against fascism and therefore everything they do is good: Who could oppose a protection rampart that’s against fascism!!!!!!
Posted by: AFeralDuck at November 25, 2022 12:03 PM (nZvvK)
220
Russia has oil, Russia has coal, Russia has natural gas. We used to.
Posted by: kraken at November 25, 2022 12:03 PM (Vr12I)
221
I was a recent arrival to the People's Republic of Austin. I would later immigrate to the Republic of Texas in 91.
Posted by: Darth Randall at November 25, 2022 12:03 PM (w2Ano)
222
214 Russia has a lot, really a lot of border to consider. Not every country on it is an ally. Stripping military hardware and resources from the southern and eastern military districts wouldn't be prudent.
But the western front gets the attention from Putin because NATO, at least some of it, has to wag their dick in his face.
The junta, and by extension it's *biden's dick we're talking about is really an affront to dicks.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at November 25, 2022 12:02 PM (Q4IgG)
Russia's main non-US aligned border threat is China and China-affiliated countries. Current circumstances push Russia to align with China against the US, which is what China wants.
But the western front gets the attention from Putin because NATO, at least some of it, has to wag their dick in his face.
The junta, and by extension it's *biden's dick we're talking about is really an affront to dicks.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at November 25, 2022 12:02 PM (Q4IgG)
Russia's main non-US aligned border threat is China and China-affiliated countries. Current circumstances push Russia to align with China against the US, which is what China wants.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 12:03 PM (eYoxG)
223
and why their soldiers have to buy their own uniforms and ballistic vests
Incompetence in the mobilization machinery. Russia has enough money to buy uniforms, remarkably.
I've seen plenty of clips of Russian soldiers and their families complaining about this. I've also seen the reports from the British MoD. But sure, it's all propaganda.
Incompetence in the mobilization machinery. Russia has enough money to buy uniforms, remarkably.
I've seen plenty of clips of Russian soldiers and their families complaining about this. I've also seen the reports from the British MoD. But sure, it's all propaganda.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:04 PM (eOEVl)
224
Thing is, this nation has a bunch of middle-school mean girls running foreign policy, and Russia has thugs running things.
My money is on the thugs.
My money is on the thugs.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 12:04 PM (BLZx2)
225
"Nations do not have permanent friends or enemies, only interests."
Posted by: Henry John Temple at November 25, 2022 12:04 PM (DhOHl)
226
Three people who each played a key role in ending the Cold War:
A B-list Hollywood actor,
A Roman priest, and
A shipyard electrician.
A Russian novelist.
A B-list Hollywood actor,
A Roman priest, and
A shipyard electrician.
A Russian novelist.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 12:05 PM (KCOCK)
227
Where Were You on November 9, 1989?
Isn't it funny that KFC chose to 'celebrate' Kristallnacht in Berlin (Nov 8, 193 rather than the Wall coming down? (Germans themselves celebrate Wiedervereinigunstag on Oct 3rd, the day in 1990 when East Germany joined West Germany)
Isn't it funny that KFC chose to 'celebrate' Kristallnacht in Berlin (Nov 8, 193
rather than the Wall coming down? (Germans themselves celebrate Wiedervereinigunstag on Oct 3rd, the day in 1990 when East Germany joined West Germany)Posted by: t-bird at November 25, 2022 12:06 PM (Sv58p)
228
I was 21 and was supposed to be PCS’ing back to the States from RAF Lakenheath on 10 November. My DEROS was extended 2 months to participate in a NATO Tac Evaluation. Best assignment I ever had out of 25 yrs in the AF.
Posted by: SSR at November 25, 2022 12:06 PM (7NmRg)
229
and why they're using ancient equipment (when they have any at all), and why they're bringing 60's era tanks out of mothballs.
When anyone actually spots a T-55 on the battlefield, let me know.
https://tinyurl.com/5n7b9ndk
More propaganda, I guess.
When anyone actually spots a T-55 on the battlefield, let me know.
https://tinyurl.com/5n7b9ndk
More propaganda, I guess.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:06 PM (eOEVl)
230
I've seen plenty of clips of Russian soldiers and their families complaining about this. I've also seen the reports from the British MoD. But sure, it's all propaganda.
The Russian bureaucracy is incompetent. The Russian bureaucracy has always been incompetent.
That hasn't stopped the Russians from winning wars.
The Russian bureaucracy is incompetent. The Russian bureaucracy has always been incompetent.
That hasn't stopped the Russians from winning wars.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 12:06 PM (KCOCK)
231
In 1989 I was being put onto this insane timeline we are on today. One where the USSR won the Cold War and the appratchik progressvie ctrl-left took over the American Govt.
Posted by: Fisht at November 25, 2022 11:46 AM (ZRarh)
-------
Heh. Stealin' that, and will use it when communicating with my "alt-right" Q Anon buddy.
Posted by: Fisht at November 25, 2022 11:46 AM (ZRarh)
-------
Heh. Stealin' that, and will use it when communicating with my "alt-right" Q Anon buddy.
Posted by: ShainS -- The Humiliation is Part of the Kink at November 25, 2022 12:07 PM (ynBkT)
232
More propaganda, I guess.
Posted by: Archimedes
___
As far as I'm concerned, every single thing that spews from the junta that runs this country is propaganda.
Posted by: Archimedes
___
As far as I'm concerned, every single thing that spews from the junta that runs this country is propaganda.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 12:08 PM (BLZx2)
233
Having lived in Britain most of my life, using the railway in Japan is always jarring.
Everything works, and everything is on time! The trains are spotless and the staff are diligent and even bow on entering or leaving each carriage.
I consistently think I'm dreaming.
Even on suburban trains, a long way from the the gleaming Shinkansen, there is the dutiful station master and platforms they keep immaculate.
Passengers can expect the trains advertised, at the times advertised, with any of the extremely rare delays profusely apologised for.
http://bit.ly/3UaJufA
Everything works, and everything is on time! The trains are spotless and the staff are diligent and even bow on entering or leaving each carriage.
I consistently think I'm dreaming.
Even on suburban trains, a long way from the the gleaming Shinkansen, there is the dutiful station master and platforms they keep immaculate.
Passengers can expect the trains advertised, at the times advertised, with any of the extremely rare delays profusely apologised for.
http://bit.ly/3UaJufA
Posted by: Clyde Shelton at November 25, 2022 12:08 PM (Do5/p)
234
Of course the problem is that Bush 41 wasn't a conservative though you'd think as a CIA man he would have wanted revenge against those actively working with the Soviets over the years.
Posted by: 18-1 at November 25, 2022 11:35 AM (ESjRY)
1. The spooks in the CIA and MI-whatever felt a lot of kinship with their opposite numbers.
2. Job Preservation.
3. Remember how much the left hated Nixon over Alger Hiss? and the whole the Rosenberg's were innocent shit?
Posted by: 18-1 at November 25, 2022 11:35 AM (ESjRY)
1. The spooks in the CIA and MI-whatever felt a lot of kinship with their opposite numbers.
2. Job Preservation.
3. Remember how much the left hated Nixon over Alger Hiss? and the whole the Rosenberg's were innocent shit?
Posted by: rd at November 25, 2022 12:08 PM (Z32m1)
235
>>>NATO had its victory 33 years ago, and it was a triumph for humanity.
And it was so visible and concrete and tangible: a wall coming down.
And it was so visible and concrete and tangible: a wall coming down.
Posted by: m at November 25, 2022 12:08 PM (8rTNG)
236
Iraq increased our military readiness, defense industry, and militarization though. The year 2000 US military couldn't beat the year 2008 US military. As we are now at peace, the military is declining and country generally demilitarizing.
Again, if you have a large economy, you can spend money on military expenditures, and still give your people a decent SoL. The Russians can't.
We're not in the early 1900s anymore. Other countries do have appreciably sized industrial bases and can sustain themselves outside the US sphere. Russian manufacturing is pretty significant, around 15% of their economy.
Right. Other than extraction and ag, what products does Russia provide to the world?
Again, if you have a large economy, you can spend money on military expenditures, and still give your people a decent SoL. The Russians can't.
We're not in the early 1900s anymore. Other countries do have appreciably sized industrial bases and can sustain themselves outside the US sphere. Russian manufacturing is pretty significant, around 15% of their economy.
Right. Other than extraction and ag, what products does Russia provide to the world?
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:09 PM (eOEVl)
237
All in all considering, Russia always has had a incompetent country
Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2022 12:10 PM (xhxe8)
238
s far as I'm concerned, every single thing that spews from the junta that runs this country is propaganda.
Posted by: SMH
Well, that makes it rather difficult to have a discussion about it.
Posted by: SMH
Well, that makes it rather difficult to have a discussion about it.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:10 PM (eOEVl)
239
All in all considering, Russia always has had a incompetent country
Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2022 12:10 PM (xhxe
I blame vodka.
Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2022 12:10 PM (xhxe
I blame vodka.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 12:10 PM (hwaFC)
240
s far as I'm concerned, every single thing that spews from the junta that runs this country is propaganda.
Posted by: SMH
Well, that makes it rather difficult to have a discussion about it.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:10 PM (eOEVl)
It keeps them short.
Posted by: SMH
Well, that makes it rather difficult to have a discussion about it.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:10 PM (eOEVl)
It keeps them short.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 12:11 PM (hwaFC)
241
Without Moscow to call home to anymore, our Communists had to pivot. But it's not as if they stopped being Communists.
The USSR initiated the subversion of our institutions that eventually led to the GOP embracing drag queens grooming kids in schools as a Blessing of Liberty.
The student exceeded the master.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 25, 2022 11:49 AM (oINRc)
-------
It's since shifted to the ChiComms funding the many politicos as well as Fifth Column causes and movements.
The USSR initiated the subversion of our institutions that eventually led to the GOP embracing drag queens grooming kids in schools as a Blessing of Liberty.
The student exceeded the master.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 25, 2022 11:49 AM (oINRc)
-------
It's since shifted to the ChiComms funding the many politicos as well as Fifth Column causes and movements.
Posted by: ShainS -- The Humiliation is Part of the Kink at November 25, 2022 12:11 PM (ynBkT)
Posted by: SFGoth at November 25, 2022 12:12 PM (KAi1n)
243
Well, that makes it rather difficult to have a discussion about it.
Posted by: Archimedes
___
Oh well.
Posted by: Archimedes
___
Oh well.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 12:12 PM (BLZx2)
244
Again, if you have a large economy, you can spend money on military expenditures, and still give your people a decent SoL. The Russians can't.
"We're not in the early 1900s anymore. Other countries do have appreciably sized industrial bases and can sustain themselves outside the US sphere. Russian manufacturing is pretty significant, around 15% of their economy."
Right. Other than extraction and ag, what products does Russia provide to the world?
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:09 PM (eOEVl)
The scale of this war isn't significant enough to be a big drag on their standard of living.
Why would Russia need to be exporting to the rest of the world? Comparative advantage means they're a natural commodity exporter anyways. They do export some equipment/cars/trucks, likely to less advanced countries in their sphere, but that's not terribly relevant.
"We're not in the early 1900s anymore. Other countries do have appreciably sized industrial bases and can sustain themselves outside the US sphere. Russian manufacturing is pretty significant, around 15% of their economy."
Right. Other than extraction and ag, what products does Russia provide to the world?
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:09 PM (eOEVl)
The scale of this war isn't significant enough to be a big drag on their standard of living.
Why would Russia need to be exporting to the rest of the world? Comparative advantage means they're a natural commodity exporter anyways. They do export some equipment/cars/trucks, likely to less advanced countries in their sphere, but that's not terribly relevant.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 12:12 PM (eYoxG)
245
Who knows? Their economy is a black box. They no longer even tell you their fertility rate, because it's so bad.
---
And that's exactly why we should have stayed out.
Our involvement has more almost certainly pushed the world into global conflict.
1) First, we told Russia just the tip and we won't complain "a little incursion" recall?
2) then, we acted like what we authorized was a horror
3) then, we prevented Ukraine from negotiating a peace-- that all sides had almost already agreed to,
4) and we're still preventing a negotiated peace
So, we've locked the world into one endpoint now: Collapse of Russia. There is no safe outcome there. There just isn't.
---
And that's exactly why we should have stayed out.
Our involvement has more almost certainly pushed the world into global conflict.
1) First, we told Russia just the tip and we won't complain "a little incursion" recall?
2) then, we acted like what we authorized was a horror
3) then, we prevented Ukraine from negotiating a peace-- that all sides had almost already agreed to,
4) and we're still preventing a negotiated peace
So, we've locked the world into one endpoint now: Collapse of Russia. There is no safe outcome there. There just isn't.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at November 25, 2022 12:12 PM (5EnGD)
246
far as I'm concerned, every single thing that spews from the junta that runs this country is propaganda.
Posted by: SMH
Well, that makes it rather difficult to have a discussion about it.
==
That's the discussion. Its propaganda, why would you consider it? Do you think the flat earth society had merit?
Posted by: SMH
Well, that makes it rather difficult to have a discussion about it.
==
That's the discussion. Its propaganda, why would you consider it? Do you think the flat earth society had merit?
Posted by: I'm not saying you can't believe in whatever you want, but don't expect everyone else to indulge at November 25, 2022 12:13 PM (V6vtj)
Posted by: Martini Farmer at November 25, 2022 12:13 PM (Q4IgG)
248
One interesting part of the "media diet" we receive is that you almost never see articles about the difficulties that Ukraine is having.
According to General Milley, Russia and the Ukraine are suffering approximately equal casualties.
Ukraine has 41 million people. Russia has 147 million people.
We are told that the Ukrainian people are united in their support for the war, yet Ukraine still refuses to let males of military age leave the country, which implies some level of dissatisfaction.
Russia still lets males of military age leave the country.
According to General Milley, Russia and the Ukraine are suffering approximately equal casualties.
Ukraine has 41 million people. Russia has 147 million people.
We are told that the Ukrainian people are united in their support for the war, yet Ukraine still refuses to let males of military age leave the country, which implies some level of dissatisfaction.
Russia still lets males of military age leave the country.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 12:13 PM (KCOCK)
249
The scale of this war isn't significant enough to be a big drag on their standard of living.
You know this how?
Why would Russia need to be exporting to the rest of the world? Comparative advantage means they're a natural commodity exporter anyways. They do export some equipment/cars/trucks, likely to less advanced countries in their sphere, but that's not terribly relevant.
So....nothing.
You know this how?
Why would Russia need to be exporting to the rest of the world? Comparative advantage means they're a natural commodity exporter anyways. They do export some equipment/cars/trucks, likely to less advanced countries in their sphere, but that's not terribly relevant.
So....nothing.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:15 PM (eOEVl)
250
Ancient Russian Equipment?
Why do you think the T-62 is called the T-62?
Most of the tanks on the Ukrainian Battlefields are T-62's, T-64s, a lot of T-72s, a few T-80s, and an occasional T-90. The APCs are BMPs, BTRs, and other 1970's Soviet Equipment.
Why do you think the T-62 is called the T-62?
Most of the tanks on the Ukrainian Battlefields are T-62's, T-64s, a lot of T-72s, a few T-80s, and an occasional T-90. The APCs are BMPs, BTRs, and other 1970's Soviet Equipment.
Posted by: rd at November 25, 2022 12:15 PM (Z32m1)
251
In any case, you haven't explained why the Russians are stripping home appliances for chips
Who actually believes this utter horseshit?
What, you think you can just take a microcontroller out of a toaster, and put it into an AA-10 and voila?
Who actually believes this utter horseshit?
What, you think you can just take a microcontroller out of a toaster, and put it into an AA-10 and voila?
Posted by: spindrift at November 25, 2022 12:15 PM (h5TKJ)
252
And let's remember that America's much vaunted Intelligence Communty had no idea the wall was about to collapse. Or confirming that Trump was a Russian pawn.
Or that the Hunter Biden laptop was a fake. Why do we still have them?
Or that the Hunter Biden laptop was a fake. Why do we still have them?
Posted by: Darth Randall at November 25, 2022 12:15 PM (w2Ano)
253
What, you think you can just take a microcontroller out of a toaster, and put it into an AA-10 and voila?
Posted by: spindrift
___
LOL!
As someone who's actually had to fix tanks, this is hilarious.
Posted by: spindrift
___
LOL!
As someone who's actually had to fix tanks, this is hilarious.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 12:16 PM (BLZx2)
254
I saw where Murkowsi has been declared the winner in Alaska?
On one side we get fucked by McConnell on the other side by Trump with a bunch of worthless candidates that almost all went down.
This midterm was a disaster, we need to do something different.
On one side we get fucked by McConnell on the other side by Trump with a bunch of worthless candidates that almost all went down.
This midterm was a disaster, we need to do something different.
Posted by: Blago at November 25, 2022 12:16 PM (PwNLq)
255
According to General Milley, Russia and the Ukraine are suffering approximately equal casualties.
Ukraine has 41 million people. Russia has 147 million people.
How many people did the American colonies have vs. Great Britain?
How many people did North Vietnam have vs. the US?
Ukraine has 41 million people. Russia has 147 million people.
How many people did the American colonies have vs. Great Britain?
How many people did North Vietnam have vs. the US?
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:17 PM (eOEVl)
256
Did read week or so ago, Russia used a brand new tank, only having a couple ( 3 maybe) and used them in Ukraine and lost at least 1.
Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2022 12:17 PM (xhxe8)
257
Where were you when…
the day the Frankfurt PX was terrorist bombed, i saw the terrorist's car take my parking place as I was leaving. Smash & I had a rare weekend off of the duty roster together and we went to the commisary & PX to get food and some books from the bookstore.
when the Chernoble power plant melted down, we were still deployed in west germany, Smash was in hhc 5th corps, and i was in my Nike battery with the german air force and 10 nukes. we went on lockdown and i didn't see Smash for another two weeks.
when the wall went down, i was already a warrant officer in a Patriot battery and was in the field some damn where out in white sands. didn't hear about it until a few days later when we came back in
the day the Frankfurt PX was terrorist bombed, i saw the terrorist's car take my parking place as I was leaving. Smash & I had a rare weekend off of the duty roster together and we went to the commisary & PX to get food and some books from the bookstore.
when the Chernoble power plant melted down, we were still deployed in west germany, Smash was in hhc 5th corps, and i was in my Nike battery with the german air force and 10 nukes. we went on lockdown and i didn't see Smash for another two weeks.
when the wall went down, i was already a warrant officer in a Patriot battery and was in the field some damn where out in white sands. didn't hear about it until a few days later when we came back in
Posted by: BifBewalski at November 25, 2022 12:18 PM (3CCua)
258
. . . on the other side by Trump with a bunch of worthless candidates that almost all went down.
Posted by: Blago at November 25, 2022 12:16 PM
90%+ of the candidates whom President Trump endorsed won their races. A more accurate summary would be that almost all of the Trump-endorsed candidates won.
Posted by: Blago at November 25, 2022 12:16 PM
90%+ of the candidates whom President Trump endorsed won their races. A more accurate summary would be that almost all of the Trump-endorsed candidates won.
Posted by: Clyde Shelton at November 25, 2022 12:18 PM (Do5/p)
259
Anybody notice the stories about the Russians buying North Korean Artillery shells?
Supposedly we are buying South Korean Artillery shells for Ukraine too.
Ukraine is a medium large war with 100,000 - 150,000 on each side, and the world is running out of ammunition to fight it 10 months after it started.
Supposedly we are buying South Korean Artillery shells for Ukraine too.
Ukraine is a medium large war with 100,000 - 150,000 on each side, and the world is running out of ammunition to fight it 10 months after it started.
Posted by: rd at November 25, 2022 12:19 PM (Z32m1)
260
249 "The scale of this war isn't significant enough to be a big drag on their standard of living."
You know this how?
"Why would Russia need to be exporting to the rest of the world? Comparative advantage means they're a natural commodity exporter anyways. They do export some equipment/cars/trucks, likely to less advanced countries in their sphere, but that's not terribly relevant."
So....nothing.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:15 PM (eOEVl)
Basic math and any historical references. A large expensive war for a country has about 5% of their country in the military(WWII goes higher but is relatively exceptional and also abnormally expensive). So at 7.4 million Russians would be what constitutes a truly costly war for Russia. Currently the Ukraine conflict doesn't reach 1%, so is overall pretty affordable.
Again, why are Russian non-commodity exports relevant to anything in this conflict? Exports are definitionally goods they're not using themselves.
You know this how?
"Why would Russia need to be exporting to the rest of the world? Comparative advantage means they're a natural commodity exporter anyways. They do export some equipment/cars/trucks, likely to less advanced countries in their sphere, but that's not terribly relevant."
So....nothing.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:15 PM (eOEVl)
Basic math and any historical references. A large expensive war for a country has about 5% of their country in the military(WWII goes higher but is relatively exceptional and also abnormally expensive). So at 7.4 million Russians would be what constitutes a truly costly war for Russia. Currently the Ukraine conflict doesn't reach 1%, so is overall pretty affordable.
Again, why are Russian non-commodity exports relevant to anything in this conflict? Exports are definitionally goods they're not using themselves.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 12:19 PM (eYoxG)
261
What, you think you can just take a microcontroller out of a toaster, and put it into an AA-10 and voila?
More propaganda, I guess.
https://tinyurl.com/5fr73jbp
More propaganda, I guess.
https://tinyurl.com/5fr73jbp
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:19 PM (eOEVl)
262
They no longer even tell you their fertility rate, because it's so bad.
Compare and contrast Russian and Ukrainian fertility rates.
According to the UN Population Fund (2022), Russia has a fertility rate of 1.8, Ukraine is 1.4.
Germany's fertility rate is 1.6, Poland 1.5.
Compare and contrast Russian and Ukrainian fertility rates.
According to the UN Population Fund (2022), Russia has a fertility rate of 1.8, Ukraine is 1.4.
Germany's fertility rate is 1.6, Poland 1.5.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 12:19 PM (KCOCK)
263
What the Germans did wrong when the Berlin Wall fell was to not grab every Russian who wasn't fast enough to escape and hang them off every lamppost in the country.
Posted by: NR Pax at November 25, 2022 12:20 PM (Z7Jj3)
264
Where Were You on November 9, 1989?
-----
Landing in Panama, to overthrow Noriega.
No, wait, I saw that on TV.
I don't remember. But I was watching TV.
Where Were You on November 9, 1989?
-----
Landing in Panama, to overthrow Noriega.
No, wait, I saw that on TV.
I don't remember. But I was watching TV.
Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at November 25, 2022 12:20 PM (qOuMB)
265
commerce secretary Gina Raimondo explained, "We have reports from Ukrainians that when they find Russian military equipment on the ground, it's filled with semiconductors that they took out of dishwashers and refrigerators."
Yeah, propaganda.
Yeah, propaganda.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 12:21 PM (hwaFC)
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 12:21 PM (KCOCK)
267
Haven't read the thread from the start (surprise!), but a little puzzled what many here are "on about" as the Brits would say. Russia can almost certainly do whatever is needed to attain its Small Objective in Ukraine. The Big Objective was always a million-to-one-shot, due to the nature of things.
Small Objective = protecting/absorbing Donetsk & Lugansk, which was/is a very uncomplicated ethnic/political imperative. Expanding this ethnic irredentist objective, seemingly rather spontaneously and casually, to include Zaporozhe and Kherson, surprised me, and Moscow may end up regretting it. Only because of the headaches it brings.
Big Objective = ensuring Ukraine's neutral military status. This issue did not start Feb. 24, 2022, though many seem to act that way (in fact all public western pronouncements and rhetoric imply it). This was inherently extremely difficult for Moscow to compel. A quick political victory/possible regime change in Kiev, clearly the strategery back in February, might have done it, but that didn't work out.
Russian success (prolonged, ugly, inelegant) with the Small, and failure with the Big, Objectives seems most likely.
Small Objective = protecting/absorbing Donetsk & Lugansk, which was/is a very uncomplicated ethnic/political imperative. Expanding this ethnic irredentist objective, seemingly rather spontaneously and casually, to include Zaporozhe and Kherson, surprised me, and Moscow may end up regretting it. Only because of the headaches it brings.
Big Objective = ensuring Ukraine's neutral military status. This issue did not start Feb. 24, 2022, though many seem to act that way (in fact all public western pronouncements and rhetoric imply it). This was inherently extremely difficult for Moscow to compel. A quick political victory/possible regime change in Kiev, clearly the strategery back in February, might have done it, but that didn't work out.
Russian success (prolonged, ugly, inelegant) with the Small, and failure with the Big, Objectives seems most likely.
Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2022 12:21 PM (OTzUX)
268
From PCMag:
Raimondo said this was all part of the plan when sanctions were imposed, "Our approach was to deny Russia technology — technology that would cripple their ability to continue a military operation. And that is exactly what we are doing."
Uh huh...
Raimondo said this was all part of the plan when sanctions were imposed, "Our approach was to deny Russia technology — technology that would cripple their ability to continue a military operation. And that is exactly what we are doing."
Uh huh...
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 12:21 PM (BLZx2)
269
Again, why are Russian non-commodity exports relevant to anything in this conflict? Exports are definitionally goods they're not using themselves.
Because any country that wants to be competitive and give its people a decent standard of living by world standards has to be part of the world economy. Autarky doesn't work. Ask the Norks.
Because any country that wants to be competitive and give its people a decent standard of living by world standards has to be part of the world economy. Autarky doesn't work. Ask the Norks.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:22 PM (eOEVl)
270
How many people did the American colonies have vs. Great Britain?
How many people did North Vietnam have vs. the US?
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:17 PM (eOEVl)
It is theoretically possible to make the conflict too expensive relative to the gains believed to be attainable, but both of those conflicts were across an ocean.
Also in both of those conflicts the weaker of the two countries(the nascent American state and Vietcong respectively) endured higher losses.
How many people did North Vietnam have vs. the US?
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:17 PM (eOEVl)
It is theoretically possible to make the conflict too expensive relative to the gains believed to be attainable, but both of those conflicts were across an ocean.
Also in both of those conflicts the weaker of the two countries(the nascent American state and Vietcong respectively) endured higher losses.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 12:22 PM (eYoxG)
271
Listen to what they are claiming, that when the Ukrainians capture a tank, they disassemble it and check the chips in the electronics.
Yeah, no.
Yeah, no.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 12:22 PM (hwaFC)
272
Raimondo said this was all part of the plan when sanctions were imposed, "Our approach was to deny Russia technology — technology that would cripple their ability to continue a military operation. And that is exactly what we are doing."
Uh huh...
And? Or is the snark about it.
Uh huh...
And? Or is the snark about it.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:23 PM (eOEVl)
273
hiya
Posted by: JT at November 25, 2022 12:23 PM (T4tVD)
274
269 "Again, why are Russian non-commodity exports relevant to anything in this conflict? Exports are definitionally goods they're not using themselves."
Because any country that wants to be competitive and give its people a decent standard of living by world standards has to be part of the world economy. Autarky doesn't work. Ask the Norks.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:22 PM (eOEVl)
So the Russians export oil and import blue jeans normally. Not sure why it's a big deal that they're not the blue jeans exporter? If anything that just means Russia exports essentials and imports luxury goods.
Because any country that wants to be competitive and give its people a decent standard of living by world standards has to be part of the world economy. Autarky doesn't work. Ask the Norks.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:22 PM (eOEVl)
So the Russians export oil and import blue jeans normally. Not sure why it's a big deal that they're not the blue jeans exporter? If anything that just means Russia exports essentials and imports luxury goods.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 12:23 PM (eYoxG)
275
Listen to what they are claiming, that when the Ukrainians capture a tank, they disassemble it and check the chips in the electronics.
Yeah, no.
Posted by: G'rump928
___
*snort*
Yeah, no.
Posted by: G'rump928
___
*snort*
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 12:23 PM (BLZx2)
276
As Business Insider reports, during the Senate Committee on Appropriations on Wednesday, commerce secretary Gina Raimondo explained, "We have reports from Ukrainians that when they find Russian military equipment on the ground, it's filled with semiconductors that they took out of dishwashers and refrigerators."
Business Insider is strike one. I could go on.
Business Insider is strike one. I could go on.
Posted by: t-bird at November 25, 2022 12:23 PM (hPvGe)
277
On the Russians allegedly cannibalizing the computer chips in dishwashers in May:
Raimondo said this was all part of the plan when sanctions were imposed, "Our approach was to deny Russia technology — technology that would cripple their ability to continue a military operation. And that is exactly what we are doing."
Mission accomplished, Gina!
Raimondo said this was all part of the plan when sanctions were imposed, "Our approach was to deny Russia technology — technology that would cripple their ability to continue a military operation. And that is exactly what we are doing."
Mission accomplished, Gina!
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 12:24 PM (KCOCK)
278
And? Or is the snark about it.
Posted by: Archimedes
___
You want to believe the lies, have at it.
Don't expect the rest of us to go along with the bullshit.
Posted by: Archimedes
___
You want to believe the lies, have at it.
Don't expect the rest of us to go along with the bullshit.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 12:24 PM (BLZx2)
279
> commerce secretary Gina Raimondo explained....
____________
"Commerce" drone, droning on about military hardware and logistical issues.
Sure, Jan... uh huh
____________
"Commerce" drone, droning on about military hardware and logistical issues.
Sure, Jan... uh huh
Posted by: Martini Farmer at November 25, 2022 12:24 PM (Q4IgG)
280
Russia is this administration's boogie man, China is their Big Brother.
Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2022 12:24 PM (xhxe8)
281
On the plus side, the T72s now have a high temp scrub setting.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 12:24 PM (hwaFC)
282
Also in both of those conflicts the weaker of the two countries(the nascent American state and Vietcong respectively) endured higher losses.
Of course. And yet you've already stated that the Ukes and the Russians have suffered equivalent losses in absolute terms. That means they're ahead of where the other two were.
The main point is that this is a contest of wills. The average Uke is highly motivated because it's his country. The average mobik has no f***ing idea why he's being told to die for this.
Of course. And yet you've already stated that the Ukes and the Russians have suffered equivalent losses in absolute terms. That means they're ahead of where the other two were.
The main point is that this is a contest of wills. The average Uke is highly motivated because it's his country. The average mobik has no f***ing idea why he's being told to die for this.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:25 PM (eOEVl)
283
Because any country that wants to be competitive and give its people a decent standard of living by world standards has to be part of the world economy. Autarky doesn't work.
Again, it is only the white countries sanctioning Russia - not the rest of the world, which is perfectly happy to do business with Russia.
Again, it is only the white countries sanctioning Russia - not the rest of the world, which is perfectly happy to do business with Russia.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 12:25 PM (KCOCK)
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:26 PM (eOEVl)
285
The Berlin Wall fell the start of the 1989 Snowboard season. I had a nighttime season pass for 15+ years at Boreal and thats where I was at on Nov.9. It was all over the TV's in the bar/lounge.
Posted by: JROD (Rick Perry/Scott Walker 2024) at November 25, 2022 12:26 PM (IlL6s)
286
Does Ukraine have 41 million people?
I heard it was closer to 30 million BEFORE the war started, as a lot fled to Western Europe.
As to overwhelming Russian Numbers? Why are they "mobilizing" 40, 50, and 60 year olds? Why are they recruiting Russian Prison Convicts? Even Convicts with HIV and Hepatitis C?
I heard it was closer to 30 million BEFORE the war started, as a lot fled to Western Europe.
As to overwhelming Russian Numbers? Why are they "mobilizing" 40, 50, and 60 year olds? Why are they recruiting Russian Prison Convicts? Even Convicts with HIV and Hepatitis C?
Posted by: rd at November 25, 2022 12:26 PM (Z32m1)
287
Well, since Ukraine hasn't actually repelled Russia, and has lost about 100,000 troops to Russia's 20,000 even with our weapons, I'd slow yer roll. To the larger point, Europe should defend itself.
*Russia has left the areas Ukraine has re-taken. That's not repelling that's Russian strategy, of which I know little. No one does.
*Russia has left the areas Ukraine has re-taken. That's not repelling that's Russian strategy, of which I know little. No one does.
Posted by: OneChinaPoricy at November 25, 2022 12:26 PM (tUfjF)
288
Again, it is only the white countries sanctioning Russia - not the rest of the world, which is perfectly happy to do business with Russia.
Posted by: The ARC of History!
___
And it's the western countries getting hurt by the sanction, not Russia.
Posted by: The ARC of History!
___
And it's the western countries getting hurt by the sanction, not Russia.
Posted by: SMH at what's coming at November 25, 2022 12:26 PM (BLZx2)
289
A sign of the corruption in the Russian defense procurement process: when some of the reactive armor on Russian. Tanks was taken apart and examined, rather than being filled with ecplosive plate, they were filled with cardboard egg cartons.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 25, 2022 12:26 PM (r46W7)
290
The average Uke is highly motivated because it's his country.
Which is why the Ukrainian government has to forbid Ukrainian males of military age from leaving the country.
High motivation.
Which is why the Ukrainian government has to forbid Ukrainian males of military age from leaving the country.
High motivation.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 12:26 PM (KCOCK)
Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2022 12:27 PM (xhxe8)
292
The lies, oh the lies.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at November 25, 2022 12:27 PM (sa2J4)
293
What, you think you can just take a microcontroller out of a toaster, and put it into an AA-10 and voila?
Posted by: spindrift
You misspelled vodka.
Posted by: spindrift
You misspelled vodka.
Posted by: SFGoth at November 25, 2022 12:27 PM (KAi1n)
294
My biggest fear now is that bringing the battle to an end is not the desired outcome...
Bingo. The end of the Afghanistan war & the Ukrainian war also have commonality even as to their citizens being permitted to enter the USA quickly, in fairly large numbers at one time & under newly devised and unique probationary programs which, we all know, will not end.
Our leaders have involved much of Europe in those same immigration schemes, for which there must be appropriate payoffs, and certain Congressional caucuses are also in on the game.
Over the weekend, I read that the big problem with Russia/Putin is the undermining of globalization. IDK.
November 9, 1989? Visiting my dad who was quite ill at the time. We watched the news of the wall coming down & talked about its significance. He had served in both Africa and Europe during WW2; cautioned us about the UN and, even in death long ago, remains one of the wisest people I've ever known.
Bingo. The end of the Afghanistan war & the Ukrainian war also have commonality even as to their citizens being permitted to enter the USA quickly, in fairly large numbers at one time & under newly devised and unique probationary programs which, we all know, will not end.
Our leaders have involved much of Europe in those same immigration schemes, for which there must be appropriate payoffs, and certain Congressional caucuses are also in on the game.
Over the weekend, I read that the big problem with Russia/Putin is the undermining of globalization. IDK.
November 9, 1989? Visiting my dad who was quite ill at the time. We watched the news of the wall coming down & talked about its significance. He had served in both Africa and Europe during WW2; cautioned us about the UN and, even in death long ago, remains one of the wisest people I've ever known.
Posted by: Lola at November 25, 2022 12:28 PM (NIYa7)
295
282 "Also in both of those conflicts the weaker of the two countries(the nascent American state and Vietcong respectively) endured higher losses."
Of course. And yet you've already stated that the Ukes and the Russians have suffered equivalent losses in absolute terms. That means they're ahead of where the other two were.
The main point is that this is a contest of wills. The average Uke is highly motivated because it's his country. The average mobik has no f***ing idea why he's being told to die for this.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:25 PM (eOEVl)
I didn't state that. I didn't even quote that. That's a US source that another poster quoted. I think that view is very rosy, a more pragmatic estimate is probably 2-3x personnel losses and lower equipment losses.
The breaking point of either country is ambiguous, Russia is much larger and so each loss hurts less, but it's also more optional for them.
Of course. And yet you've already stated that the Ukes and the Russians have suffered equivalent losses in absolute terms. That means they're ahead of where the other two were.
The main point is that this is a contest of wills. The average Uke is highly motivated because it's his country. The average mobik has no f***ing idea why he's being told to die for this.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:25 PM (eOEVl)
I didn't state that. I didn't even quote that. That's a US source that another poster quoted. I think that view is very rosy, a more pragmatic estimate is probably 2-3x personnel losses and lower equipment losses.
The breaking point of either country is ambiguous, Russia is much larger and so each loss hurts less, but it's also more optional for them.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at November 25, 2022 12:28 PM (eYoxG)
296
As to overwhelming Russian Numbers? Why are they "mobilizing" 40, 50, and 60 year olds? Why are they recruiting Russian Prison Convicts? Even Convicts with HIV and Hepatitis C?
Excellent questions. Why doesn't the average young Russian want to die for Putin?
Excellent questions. Why doesn't the average young Russian want to die for Putin?
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:28 PM (eOEVl)
297
It's all a lie and an op.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 12:28 PM (hwaFC)
298
I heard it was closer to 30 million BEFORE the war started, as a lot fled to Western Europe.
One of the reasons why the EU was hesitant to admit Ukraine is the assumption that much of the Ukrainian work force would emigrate to elsewhere in the EU, given how poor Ukraine is.
One of the reasons why the EU was hesitant to admit Ukraine is the assumption that much of the Ukrainian work force would emigrate to elsewhere in the EU, given how poor Ukraine is.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at November 25, 2022 12:29 PM (KCOCK)
299
I wonder if any of you Karens and Kennies have considered that the only reason that the Russians aren't rolling over the Ukes is that NATO has reached into its pockets and found its wallet and right next to it, its balls, and the ONLY reason for THAT is one President Donald J. Trump shaming them into manning-up, instead of leaving it all to us as usual?! Some Russian stooge he was!
Posted by: Ray Van Dune at November 25, 2022 12:29 PM (hRbjX)
300
The breaking point of either country is ambiguous, Russia is much larger and so each loss hurts less, but it's also more optional for them.
Exactly my point. It's a war of choice for Russia. It isn't for Ukraine.
Exactly my point. It's a war of choice for Russia. It isn't for Ukraine.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:29 PM (eOEVl)
301
And let's remember that America's much vaunted Intelligence Communty had no idea the wall was about to collapse. Or confirming that Trump was a Russian pawn.
Or that the Hunter Biden laptop was a fake. Why do we still have them?
Posted by: Darth Randall at November 25, 2022 12:15 PM (w2Ano)
---------
To fail to take out Bin Laden when they had the chance -- and to help prevent terrorist attacks like 9/11?
Oh, wait ...
Or that the Hunter Biden laptop was a fake. Why do we still have them?
Posted by: Darth Randall at November 25, 2022 12:15 PM (w2Ano)
---------
To fail to take out Bin Laden when they had the chance -- and to help prevent terrorist attacks like 9/11?
Oh, wait ...
Posted by: ShainS -- The Humiliation is Part of the Kink at November 25, 2022 12:29 PM (ynBkT)
302
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:19 PM (eOEVl)
That article traces the claim back to Ukranian sources.
How does one determine a semiconductor was originally installed in a refrigerator? If the semiconductor can be used in either piece of equipment (same specs and function) how did they determine it wasn't OEM for the Russian equipment?
Color me skeptical.
That article traces the claim back to Ukranian sources.
How does one determine a semiconductor was originally installed in a refrigerator? If the semiconductor can be used in either piece of equipment (same specs and function) how did they determine it wasn't OEM for the Russian equipment?
Color me skeptical.
Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (Gringo fuertemente armado-Tempus belli) at November 25, 2022 12:29 PM (l7Kbv)
303
I didn't state that. I didn't even quote that. That's a US source that another poster quoted.
Apologies. I should have checked.
Apologies. I should have checked.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:30 PM (eOEVl)
304
And? Or is the snark about it.
Posted by: Archimedes
==
Yes, considering you are strangely impervious to logic.
Posted by: Archimedes
==
Yes, considering you are strangely impervious to logic.
Posted by: Is it snark, or is it not at November 25, 2022 12:30 PM (5XQFY)
305
I remain at my original position of being indifferent to whether Ukraine is looted by Ukrainian oligarchs or Russian oligarchs. I'm more worried about the oligarchs looting this country.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 12:30 PM (hwaFC)
306
I wonder if any of you Karens and Kennies have considered that the only reason that the Russians aren't rolling over the Ukes is that NATO has reached into its pockets and found its wallet and right next to it, its balls, and the ONLY reason for THAT is one President Donald J. Trump shaming them into manning-up, instead of leaving it all to us as usual?! Some Russian stooge he was!
Posted by: Ray Van Dune at November 25, 2022 12:29 PM (hRbjX)
-------
Not the mention the worst anti-Semite in history!
Posted by: Ray Van Dune at November 25, 2022 12:29 PM (hRbjX)
-------
Not the mention the worst anti-Semite in history!
Posted by: ShainS -- The Humiliation is Part of the Kink at November 25, 2022 12:30 PM (ynBkT)
307
Where were you when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Posted by: Animal House at November 25, 2022 12:31 PM (DhOHl)
308
I was born in 1956, before the Berlin Wall, before the first man in space. I was in elementary school for the Cuban Missile Crisis and JFK's assassination. U.S. involvement in Vietnam all the way into high school. I was a cold warrior 1975 - 1986 Navy. I was out of the military when the wall came down. Watched it on TV though.
I always thought the Soviet Navy was powerful and would adsorb a lot of damage in order to achieve victory. I knew we'd inflict a lot of damage on them.
I think the Russian mindset is still the same with the Ukies. If they want, they'll adsorb higher casualities than the Ukies can afford to take Ukraine.
I always thought the Soviet Navy was powerful and would adsorb a lot of damage in order to achieve victory. I knew we'd inflict a lot of damage on them.
I think the Russian mindset is still the same with the Ukies. If they want, they'll adsorb higher casualities than the Ukies can afford to take Ukraine.
Posted by: Archer at November 25, 2022 12:31 PM (gmo/4)
309
With the callup of prison convicts and 69 year olds, Russia has already hit the limit of men they can effectively call up. They don't have any after this; Chechens have already sent in most of what they had. Belarus has declined (nit that rhey had much)
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 25, 2022 12:32 PM (r46W7)
310
As Business Insider reports(Opens in a new window), during the Senate Committee on Appropriations(Opens in a new window) on Wednesday, commerce secretary Gina Raimondo explained, "We have reports from Ukrainians that when they find Russian military equipment on the ground, it's filled with semiconductors that they took out of dishwashers and refrigerators."
Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo?
I think I see the problem here.
Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo?
I think I see the problem here.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at November 25, 2022 12:32 PM (guGkK)
311
long out of the service in 89, so it's of little importance.
What IS memorable is the Cuban Missile crisis and being a very scared PFC stuck in the woods in Germany waiting for the balloon to go up.
We knew that survival wasn't possible in those circumstances, and you can imagine how hard it was to suck it up and do your job.
What IS memorable is the Cuban Missile crisis and being a very scared PFC stuck in the woods in Germany waiting for the balloon to go up.
We knew that survival wasn't possible in those circumstances, and you can imagine how hard it was to suck it up and do your job.
Posted by: irongrampa at November 25, 2022 12:33 PM (KATBx)
312
254 I saw where Murkowsi has been declared the winner in Alaska?
On one side we get fucked by McConnell on the other side by Trump with a bunch of worthless candidates that almost all went down.
This midterm was a disaster, we need to do something different.
Posted by: Blago at November 25, 2022 12:16 PM (PwNLq)
Of the 200+ candidates endorsed by Trump, 16 lost...
McConnell was / is responsible for most of the 16 losing their races.
That, and insufficient vote process integrity
On one side we get fucked by McConnell on the other side by Trump with a bunch of worthless candidates that almost all went down.
This midterm was a disaster, we need to do something different.
Posted by: Blago at November 25, 2022 12:16 PM (PwNLq)
Of the 200+ candidates endorsed by Trump, 16 lost...
McConnell was / is responsible for most of the 16 losing their races.
That, and insufficient vote process integrity
Posted by: Thousand Millimeter Reich at November 25, 2022 12:33 PM (CCSxw)
313
I think the Russian mindset is still the same with the Ukies. If they want, they'll adsorb higher casualities than the Ukies can afford to take Ukraine.
I have real doubts about that. I think there were multiple reasons Putin was afraid to go to a partial, much less a general mobilization.
1) The people didn't support it.
2) It would do real damage to the economy.
I have real doubts about that. I think there were multiple reasons Putin was afraid to go to a partial, much less a general mobilization.
1) The people didn't support it.
2) It would do real damage to the economy.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 25, 2022 12:33 PM (eOEVl)
314
Nothing the incompetent and corrupt American government says is worthy of belief without independent verification.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at November 25, 2022 12:33 PM (guGkK)
315
/off tiny mistaken economist sock
Posted by: browndog Official Mascot of Team Gizzard at November 25, 2022 12:34 PM (CCSxw)
316
I was at the Transient Personnel Unit at Naval Station San Diego working as a brig runner waiting for my first ship to return from PACEX (USS Robison DDG 12) so I could check onboard two days later.
It was definitely recognized as the earth-shaking event it was at the time. As much so as the Christmas Eve Coup two years later.
It was definitely recognized as the earth-shaking event it was at the time. As much so as the Christmas Eve Coup two years later.
Posted by: Jeff Weimer at November 25, 2022 12:36 PM (4enNW)
317
The Russians *have* taken higher casualties; out of the 300k called up, looks like 50k are alteady killed, wounded, or missing (probably deserted). And 100k out of the original 200k are out of action. Out of a total of 500k men now sent in, The Russians appear to have already lost 30%. Thats why all offensive operations have halted.
Posted by: Tom Servo at November 25, 2022 12:36 PM (r46W7)
318
Most of the tanks on the Ukrainian Battlefields are T-62's, T-64s, a lot of T-72s, a few T-80s, and an occasional T-90. The APCs are BMPs, BTRs, and other 1970's Soviet Equipment.
Posted by: rd
What they need is a BFD.
Posted by: rd
What they need is a BFD.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks Now With Pumpkin Spice! at November 25, 2022 12:37 PM (FVME7)
319
I was a 19D US Army Cavalry Scout in the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment, stationed on the East/West German border near Fulda, West Germany.
It was a hell of a thing when they suddenly (and unexpectedly) opened up the fence and a horde of Trabis (really shitty East German tiny cars) started pouring through.
I believe that was the first time that we were ever issued live ammo; that changed when I was recalled to active duty for Desert Storm in 1991.
It was a hell of a thing when they suddenly (and unexpectedly) opened up the fence and a horde of Trabis (really shitty East German tiny cars) started pouring through.
I believe that was the first time that we were ever issued live ammo; that changed when I was recalled to active duty for Desert Storm in 1991.
Posted by: JackCoke at November 25, 2022 12:39 PM (tqqDt)
320
"as far as I'm concerned, every single thing that spews from the junta that runs this country is propaganda."
Yep.
That, or flat out lies.
I agree...what's the point of talking to those whose conduct and speech betrays them to be reprobates, beyond hope of recovery, lacking an ability to think? Just what can be gained?
Besides a raging headache, that is...
Yep.
That, or flat out lies.
I agree...what's the point of talking to those whose conduct and speech betrays them to be reprobates, beyond hope of recovery, lacking an ability to think? Just what can be gained?
Besides a raging headache, that is...
Posted by: Ju at November 25, 2022 12:40 PM (aTmM/)
321
NOOD Antifa MAPs.
Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (Gringo fuertemente armado-Tempus belli) at November 25, 2022 12:43 PM (l7Kbv)
322
Arguments about Russian manufacturing misses that this isn't mid 20th century weapons manufacturing. You could convert a car or tractor factory into a tank factory back then. After all a T-34 or Sherman was practically just a tractor with more steel. You didn't need a more educated workforce than some welders and riveters. Not so today. You need chips, electronics, complex composite materials, mechanical engineers, computer assisted machine tools, etc. All of which is expensive and difficult to maintain and operate. No modern nation except for perhaps us and China could rapidly convert their manufacturing base into mass production of fully modern weaponry. It is well beyond Russia. They are not the Soviet Union.
They went to war with the military they had, to paraphrase Rumsfeld. I doubt they will be capable of turning their manufacturing around in either wartime or peacetime without massive political and economic reforms.
They went to war with the military they had, to paraphrase Rumsfeld. I doubt they will be capable of turning their manufacturing around in either wartime or peacetime without massive political and economic reforms.
Posted by: Obscure at November 25, 2022 12:48 PM (NQmCT)
323
November 9, 1989, I was in Madison Wisc. at the UW law school, the last bastion of Communism on earth. As the only conservative in the building, it was a glorious time. Also, I will make a shameless plug for my strategy boardgame 1989: Dawn of Freedom about the overthrow of Communism in Eastern Europe. Makes a great Christmas gift.
Posted by: Ted Torgerson DeSantis 2024 at November 25, 2022 12:57 PM (qUOSV)
324
309, Ukraine is the one forcing the elderly to fight. Mercenaries from Poland are there, too. Ukraine is tapped out. Russia has shown it has the same advanced tech we do (indeed, Hillary Clinton gave it to them) and it has about 700,000 troops waiting for the green light.
Since Russia sees what we did in Ukraine as an existential threat, the same way we felt during the Cuban missile crisis, they will not relent. We still get our dicks hard thinking of the Cold War, not realizing that in this scenario, we are the baddies.
And we just spent trillions on an Afghan war, the most in history, only to lose. Yet our suicidal, naive, irrational hubris makes us think a coked up fascist, some old soldiers and polish assasins, and Joe Biden are going to beat Russia. The big ugly is coming.
Since Russia sees what we did in Ukraine as an existential threat, the same way we felt during the Cuban missile crisis, they will not relent. We still get our dicks hard thinking of the Cold War, not realizing that in this scenario, we are the baddies.
And we just spent trillions on an Afghan war, the most in history, only to lose. Yet our suicidal, naive, irrational hubris makes us think a coked up fascist, some old soldiers and polish assasins, and Joe Biden are going to beat Russia. The big ugly is coming.
Posted by: OneChinaPoricy at November 25, 2022 01:02 PM (tUfjF)
325
I was in Berlin when the wall came down. Now, technically I was 2 but I like to think I had something to do with it.
There's actually a picture of my brother and me looking through a hole that's been knocked through the wall at some East German guards.
There's actually a picture of my brother and me looking through a hole that's been knocked through the wall at some East German guards.
Posted by: stv at November 25, 2022 01:14 PM (4XXn2)
326
WWII "Old Man's Draft" Registration Cards.
The U.S. draft targeted men 45-64 years of age and took place on April 27, 1942, at local draft boards around the country & was intended to provide the government with a register of who might be eligible for national service.
WWII "Old Man's Draft" Registration Cards.
The U.S. draft targeted men 45-64 years of age and took place on April 27, 1942, at local draft boards around the country & was intended to provide the government with a register of who might be eligible for national service.
Posted by: Lola at November 25, 2022 01:16 PM (NIYa7)
327
The Soviets were a bankrupt system anyway - morally and financially. We propped them up from the late 20s until the end of WW2. American companies built up Soviet factories almost exactly like we built up Chinese factories. We left out a few key high tech industries, to keep them in check. Of course, after WW2, they could feast on cannibalizing Central-Eastern Europe's industrial base.
Without our support or their own subject nations, they ran out of steam.
Without our support or their own subject nations, they ran out of steam.
Posted by: Chris Valentine at November 25, 2022 01:26 PM (0/nRH)
328
November 9th, 1989? I had just returned from a tour in West Germany. In a vein similar to what someone up-thread said, I fancied that the SMLM's operating there, after seeing my prowess demonstrated for the preceding 3 years, reported back to Moscow and told them to just give it up. Of course, being inefficient communists it took them a little over a year to get their act together and actually give up.
Posted by: Chairborne!...Desk From Above! at November 25, 2022 01:26 PM (62GQO)
329
Are you familiar with European history, at all? Do you think Putin's ambitions end with Ukraine? Do you think an Eastern Europe once again dominated by Russia, a new Soviet Union, would pose no threat?
Posted by: winston at November 25, 2022 01:28 PM (Q3qty)
330
I think a Ukraine dominated by Russia poses no threat.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 01:45 PM (6RVJj)
331
Would I sacrifice Washington DC to protect Kiev? Err, well, maybe a bad example..
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 01:46 PM (6RVJj)
332
Agreed G'rump. The Ukraine's history is intertwined with Russia's and goes back a thousand years. If I'm not mistaken, Kiev, at one point, was the capital of Russia. Russia has a far greater claim on Ukraine than NATO does.
Posted by: Chairborne!...Desk From Above! at November 25, 2022 01:49 PM (62GQO)
333
sign in
Posted by: andycanuck (Vwz3I) cancel your NY Post at November 25, 2022 02:28 PM (Vwz3I)
334
Ukraine hasn't stopped anything. They have lost the Donbas, the most important region of Ukraine. It was lost by EU bungling, Nato interfering, and the American taxpayer paying for it to the tune of $17 million a day. This is the most uninformed article I've seen this year.
Posted by: John Nudo at November 25, 2022 02:31 PM (iAgSX)
335
Today the purpose of NATO is three fold, and not to defend anything. 1. Keep the US in Europe. 2. Keep Russia out of Europe and 3. Keep Germany down. The people of Ukraine are suffering, not at the hands of Russia, where a majority of Ukrainians are fleeing to (think about that one), but, they are suffering because of the financial greed of their president and the ineptness and treason of the leadership of the US and EU.
Posted by: John Nudo at November 25, 2022 02:35 PM (iAgSX)
336
Today the purpose of NATO is three fold, and not to defend anything. 1. Keep the US in Europe. 2. Keep Russia out of Europe and 3. Keep Germany down.
Since 1949.
Since 1949.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 02:37 PM (6RVJj)
337
You think the Berlin Wall was important, but you think Ukraine is not?
Ukraine IS the Berlin Wall falling. It's the last few bricks tumbling across the rubble. If you were happy at the Berlin Wall falling, you ought to be beside yourself with joy at what Ukraine has done.
If you don't understand that, what you think about the Berlin Wall is of no importance at all. It's about as significant as a chatbot output.
Ukraine IS the Berlin Wall falling. It's the last few bricks tumbling across the rubble. If you were happy at the Berlin Wall falling, you ought to be beside yourself with joy at what Ukraine has done.
If you don't understand that, what you think about the Berlin Wall is of no importance at all. It's about as significant as a chatbot output.
Posted by: rold at November 25, 2022 02:50 PM (hj/M9)
Posted by: rold at November 25, 2022 02:51 PM (hj/M9)
339
" Russia has a far greater claim on Ukraine than NATO does. "
NATO is not claiming Ukraine. Ukraine is requesting NATO. Russia has no claim on Ukraine if Ukraine says otherwise. Ukraine and Ukrainians have the right to decide what to do with themselves. Russia does not have the right to step in and force them at gunpoint to do something else.
So-called "conservatives" and "patriots" who don't understand this absolutely basic stuff - no wonder the left despises you.
NATO is not claiming Ukraine. Ukraine is requesting NATO. Russia has no claim on Ukraine if Ukraine says otherwise. Ukraine and Ukrainians have the right to decide what to do with themselves. Russia does not have the right to step in and force them at gunpoint to do something else.
So-called "conservatives" and "patriots" who don't understand this absolutely basic stuff - no wonder the left despises you.
Posted by: rold at November 25, 2022 02:53 PM (hj/M9)
340
So-called "conservatives" and "patriots" who don't understand this absolutely basic stuff - no wonder the left despises you.
Posted by: rold at November 25, 2022 02:53 PM (hj/M9)
Your concern is
[X] Noted
[_] Other than noted
Posted by: rold at November 25, 2022 02:53 PM (hj/M9)
Your concern is
[X] Noted
[_] Other than noted
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at November 25, 2022 02:58 PM (6RVJj)
341
Your own government has funded more enemies of America than Putin could ever dream of.
Wake up! Putin is not your enemy.
Wake up! Putin is not your enemy.
Posted by: Don't mind me at November 25, 2022 03:11 PM (hiPaE)
342
"Bring the troops home."
When I was in college and later in the Army, I met guys whose growing up had been half overseas.
It was called the "long tour" or the "accompanied tour". I was three years, it was to areas not exposed to combat, and you could take your family.
DoD provided the American background. On post married housing. Ob/Gyn med. Football teams, bands, cheerleaders. Full K-12 staffed with American teachers.
It's not like bringing them home from War Zone D.
It's not a heck of hardship compared to a US base. And if the cost is...maybe some homesickness.... The profit is people don't mess with us. Much cheaper to deter a war than to win it.
When I was in college and later in the Army, I met guys whose growing up had been half overseas.
It was called the "long tour" or the "accompanied tour". I was three years, it was to areas not exposed to combat, and you could take your family.
DoD provided the American background. On post married housing. Ob/Gyn med. Football teams, bands, cheerleaders. Full K-12 staffed with American teachers.
It's not like bringing them home from War Zone D.
It's not a heck of hardship compared to a US base. And if the cost is...maybe some homesickness.... The profit is people don't mess with us. Much cheaper to deter a war than to win it.
Posted by: Richard Aubrey at November 25, 2022 04:19 PM (dSnnl)
343
Have the Germans finally certified as combat ready?
Posted by: Goatweed at November 25, 2022 04:30 PM (0Q/6W)
344
I was in Berlin, for a scholarship. Saw everything, it was glorious. I came from Cuba, and we were under constant vigilance. When I returned back to Cuba, I adopted a prepper mindset which helped me and my family to weather the catastrophe that came after perestroika and the falling of the eastern block. castro got no more subsidies, hard times came. I lost my job for refusing to join the commie party. I ended up in USA. Thanks America for your generosity.
Posted by: kilroy at November 25, 2022 04:51 PM (V5IxL)
345
I was in my dorm at Michigan State in the Fall of 1988, merely 6 months after returning from my service in West Germany with the US Army. I turned on the news and was flabbergasted to see people dancing on the Berlin wall, with David Hasselhoff singing about freedom. Yes, I know - it was not 1989 - the "official" fall of Communism, but it was when East Germany opened the door. In 1987 I went to West and East Berlin on a trip. Through Checkpoint Charlie, Soviet War Memorial...it was amazing and even more amazing to see all of that come to and end.
Posted by: TransamDave at November 25, 2022 04:52 PM (V0lCa)
346
Hey Buck, your xenophobia is showing again.
Why do you want America to be a whiny, toothless country that is as weak as possible?
(In my history class, I stopped to show the students news footage of November 9, 1989 - letting them know I was at the Wall five years earlier, in a moment which set me off down the road of studying history - during a time which was weaning me off the fear of the Big Bad Outside World.)
Why do you want America to be a whiny, toothless country that is as weak as possible?
(In my history class, I stopped to show the students news footage of November 9, 1989 - letting them know I was at the Wall five years earlier, in a moment which set me off down the road of studying history - during a time which was weaning me off the fear of the Big Bad Outside World.)
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at November 25, 2022 05:09 PM (6Fbie)
347
One more thing. Sat at a cafe in Alexanderplatz and a US soldier (female) sat with me and we talked, and NOBODY came to take our order, they simply ignored us. I shared with her a juice drink I had in a bag ( I did some grocery shopping). Germans do not seem to like us, why we should protect them from the Russians when they trade with them happily. Bring our troops home, let the Germans and French sort that out.
Posted by: kilroy at November 25, 2022 05:22 PM (V5IxL)
348
Remember Reagan? MR. Gorbechev tear down this wall
Posted by: Tamaa the Drongo Bird at November 25, 2022 05:31 PM (FLiOE)
349
Thomas Sowell has a book; "Intellectuals and Society" In the piece, "Intellectuals and War" he tells us how WW II was impossible. Everybody knew it would be folly for Hitler to attack everybody he could find on a map. Lists of rational reasons attached.
The senior German officers knew they were short of total combat power relative to that which could be arrayed against them by their potential enemies. So did the intellectuals. So there wasn't going to be a war.
Those freaking morons east of the Atlantic blew some damned foolishness in the Balkans into WW I. Couldn't possibly have happened; ask the intellectuals.
Besides the horrendous cost to others, the US dead of all causes would be, as a proportion of our current population, about 450,000 dead guys in two years.
Didn't even stop in November of 18. Went to fighting in the Baltics, Poland and Russia gave a war. Then Spain had a civil war.
The Yurps had the longest period of peace since the Battle of Tollense when 300,000 US troops were sitting on them starting in 1945.
So the troops are there in peace time, or they have to show up for the next war. Pick one.
The senior German officers knew they were short of total combat power relative to that which could be arrayed against them by their potential enemies. So did the intellectuals. So there wasn't going to be a war.
Those freaking morons east of the Atlantic blew some damned foolishness in the Balkans into WW I. Couldn't possibly have happened; ask the intellectuals.
Besides the horrendous cost to others, the US dead of all causes would be, as a proportion of our current population, about 450,000 dead guys in two years.
Didn't even stop in November of 18. Went to fighting in the Baltics, Poland and Russia gave a war. Then Spain had a civil war.
The Yurps had the longest period of peace since the Battle of Tollense when 300,000 US troops were sitting on them starting in 1945.
So the troops are there in peace time, or they have to show up for the next war. Pick one.
Posted by: Richard Aubrey at November 25, 2022 05:56 PM (dSnnl)
350
Last!
Posted by: Dummy #43 at November 25, 2022 09:50 PM (U2W4Y)
351
Warsaw is a lot closer
Posted by: BigDadDick at November 25, 2022 10:43 PM (TeJbs)
352
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Posted by: Tom at November 25, 2022 11:33 PM (Scqup)
Posted by: Kevin at November 26, 2022 04:23 AM (56q6f)
354
Making money online is more than $15k just by doing simple work from home. I received $18376 last month. It's an easy and simple job to do and its earnings are much better than regular office jobs and even a little child can do this and earn money. Everybody must try this job by just use the info on this page..... www.worksful.com
Making money online is more than $15k just by doing simple work from home. I received $18376 last month. It's an easy and simple job to do and its earnings are much better than regular office jobs and even a little child can do this and earn money. Everybody must try this job by just use the info on this page..... www.worksful.com
Posted by: Melissa Williams at November 26, 2022 07:21 AM (05eh7)
355
I was driving a truck for a Machinery supply house.
$0.75 above minimum wage.
The thing is that narrow strip of land is all Putin/Russia wants.
They want ground access to their huge combined arms base at Sevastopol the Black sea Navy base, it is their only warm water access to the Mediterranean, and to the Atlantic.
Zelendsky's threat to join NATO would sever that link by ground and air without easement payments.
That would be a huge strategic loss for Russia.
NATO, Obama/Biden, Biden Harris and zedlinsky are the cause of this war.
I hope Ukraine and Russia lose badly, but I hope Ukraine just loses.
Something the lack of bullets, bombs and other mass destruction weapons in NATO's arsenals are going to bring to an end.
I ain't no Russian friend but I am sure not a Ukraine friend.
$0.75 above minimum wage.
The thing is that narrow strip of land is all Putin/Russia wants.
They want ground access to their huge combined arms base at Sevastopol the Black sea Navy base, it is their only warm water access to the Mediterranean, and to the Atlantic.
Zelendsky's threat to join NATO would sever that link by ground and air without easement payments.
That would be a huge strategic loss for Russia.
NATO, Obama/Biden, Biden Harris and zedlinsky are the cause of this war.
I hope Ukraine and Russia lose badly, but I hope Ukraine just loses.
Something the lack of bullets, bombs and other mass destruction weapons in NATO's arsenals are going to bring to an end.
I ain't no Russian friend but I am sure not a Ukraine friend.
Posted by: obsidian at November 26, 2022 09:27 AM (M05Kn)
356
11/9/1989 I was standing in the PX in Taukunen Barracks in Worms, Germany watching an event unfold that I never thought would happen in my lifetime. I was 20 years old, and it's the only "political" event in my life that gave way to so many emotions that I actually cried in the electronics section of the PX.
Posted by: Dennis at November 26, 2022 11:00 AM (I+M4h)
357
Making money online is more than $15k just by doing simple work from home. I received $18376 last month. It's an easy and simple job to do and its earnings are much better than regular office jobs and even a little child can do this and earn money. Everybody must try this job by just use the info on this page..... www.richsalaries.com
Posted by: Jennifer at November 26, 2022 11:54 AM (cta4r)
358
We were on alert because someone was convinced that the wall coming down was some Commie trick.
So we spent three days in "exercise area" just off post with the tanks loaded with our war stocks of ammo.
Also the night I broke my legs...
So we spent three days in "exercise area" just off post with the tanks loaded with our war stocks of ammo.
Also the night I broke my legs...
Posted by: Angus McThag at November 26, 2022 06:54 PM (PSFqx)
359
I was stationed in West Germany. My unit was getting ready to go to gunnery tables in Graf, when we were put on alert.
At some point that night, we snuck off post, ran into some East German refugees and bought their ratty old Wartburg for $100. Then we drove to Frankfurt, spent the rest of the evening hitting the red light district. We ditched to car at the banhof, rode the train back to Pigtown, and slipped back onto post just in time for PT.
Ah we were such heathens...
At some point that night, we snuck off post, ran into some East German refugees and bought their ratty old Wartburg for $100. Then we drove to Frankfurt, spent the rest of the evening hitting the red light district. We ditched to car at the banhof, rode the train back to Pigtown, and slipped back onto post just in time for PT.
Ah we were such heathens...
Posted by: Deet at November 27, 2022 04:01 AM (G5Nsu)
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