Food Thread: Lox All Your Doors To Keep Out The Tartares!

Bagellox.jpg

Sure, it's a semi-regular topic around here, but a good bagel with some good smoked salmon, cream cheese, and a few thin slices of red onion is a rare pleasure! Yom Kippur is in a few days and one of the many traditional foods with which to break the fast is...you guessed it!

I'll toss in some chicken salad and tuna salad, but the star of the meal is the salmon and the bagels, both of which are easy to find, but hard to find excellent examples. Bagels are ubiquitous around here, but most bakeries make them too underdone with insufficient chew and not nearly enough of a crust. And too big, but that's a discussion for another day. Luckily I have a guy in a neighboring town who does an excellent bagel and is really friendly to boot.

The salmon is tougher, but I have moved away from the fancy and ridiculously delicate stuff from the specialty stores. My preference is the slightly stronger-flavored stuff that is almost commodity salmon around here. I think it stands up to the cream cheese and the onion better.

But do not neglect the cream cheese! I am routinely overruled and whipped is the default at Chez Dildo, but sometimes for old time's sake I will sneak in a block of good old Philadelphia Cream Cheese. You know...the stuff that is impossible to spread that rips up the bagel? But it is a memory from my youth and I refuse to let go!

******

This nonsense exposes a few things about the current state of affairs in America's blue areas, in particular the leftist cesspool that is the NYC city council.

Food police determined to remove fun from the menu at still-struggling NYC restaurants

The latest strike against sanity? An outlandish proposal by City Council Majority Leader Keith Powers (D-Manhattan), egged on by so-called “health advocates,” to make places like McDonald’s and Burger King “warn” customers about sugar content.

Did the city council magically solve the rest of New York’s problems and not tell us?

Also, did Powers and pals ever stop to think that people go to these places because they like sugar? Maybe it’s a bad choice, but it’s their choice.


That's just the latest lunacy. They have also gone after local foie gras, which is made in NY and employs lots of people! And lobster, because Maine fishermen are mean to whales.

This is the worst excesses of the nanny state coupled with the absence of an opposition party, so pretty much whatever the NYC council wants to do -- no matter how fvcking nuts -- they can get away with.

This doesn't affect me much because I am rarely in NYC, and actively trying to make it even rarer. Why should I go into NYC when my favorite foods are under attack and the elites in government think that they know better than I about what is good for me? Couple that with an impending congestion toll for cars in much of Manhattan, and a quick trip to Charleston for excellent food will become an attractive alternative!

******

brisketsauce.jpg

That brisket I made last weekend for Rosh Hashanah dinner? Yup...it was every bit as good as I thought it would be, and to top it off there is a ton of the gravy (sauce?) left over, so I think I am going to sear some large chunk of beef and braise it with the rest of the sauce. Unfortunately my go-to Chunk-O-Beef, chuck, is stupidly expensive around here, and I am not going to use something that is so lean it is boring. Because fat is flavor, and you can quote me!

[What's that in the background you ask? Some of you will know!]

******

Here's a fun post from Hunter Angler Gardener Cook with a bunch of Homemade Sausage Recipes. Sausage is one of the basic food groups, so anything to do with them is a good thing. And I think we are incredibly lucky here in America, because we have wonderful sausage making from all over the world. Within 20 minutes of my house I have access to an amazing variety of fine sausage, from German to Belgian to North African to good old American hot dogs to Mexican Chorizo to Spanish Chorizo (different...and glorious) and a bunch more.
******

rillettes44.jpg

Rillettes:cooked shredded meat (such as pork or duck) or fish preserved in fat.

And it's stupidly easy to make, and ridiculously delicious. Start with a pork shoulder or similarly cheap cut and go to town! You can make a ton of it for very little money, and it lasts for a long time since it is preserved in luscious, delicious fat.

Here's a good recipe to start with, although I think it is a bit too heavy-handed with the spices...Pork Rillettes

******

steaktartare.jpg

How do you feel about Steak Tartare? I love the stuff, and when I see it on a menu I will usually order it. But I know there are people who actually don't like it! So sad!

Make it yourself with beef that you know isn't going to get you sick. It is a revelation. And easy.

******

There is no sincerer love than the love of food.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese.
-- G. K. Chesterton
******

Just send me steamers. Lots of steamers, and I will provide special dispensation for those without taste who insist upon maple syrup with their French Toast. And pork rib roasts from the front end of the pig where all the good and fatty meat lives, carrots that don't taste like stalky chalk, spare bottles of Van Winkle Special Reserve 12 Year Old Bourbon, an herb garden that actually produces herbs (but no basil!), well-marbled NY strip steaks and elk backstrap to: cbd dot aoshq at gmail dot com.

And don't think that the rest of you are off the hook with maple syrup and French Toast: I'm still watching you! And I am watching you perverts who shake Manhattans and keeping a list for the Burning Times.

Posted by: CBD at 04:00 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 Leckeres Essen!

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 02, 2022 04:00 PM (ZSK0i)

2 Food fight

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 04:00 PM (xhxe8)

3 Going to make a meatball grinder soon

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 04:01 PM (xhxe8)

4 And NOODED.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 02, 2022 04:01 PM (ZSK0i)

5 How do you feel about Steak Tartare?

Oh no. It's not for me.

Posted by: Tonypete at October 02, 2022 04:03 PM (LsEU/)

6 Chucks roasts are passably cheap here at the moment. So, I'm grabbing a few, sealing them carefully and stockpiling them in the freezer against the dark days ahead.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 02, 2022 04:04 PM (ZSK0i)

7 That bagel looks tasty ! I love it

Posted by: Hatari Somewhere on Ventura Highway at October 02, 2022 04:05 PM (WF/xn)

8 i know nothing about bagels, but am given to understand that elon musk is obsessed wit launching large quantities of lox into orbit.

Posted by: kulak anachronda at October 02, 2022 04:06 PM (edU/H)

9 I've never had a bagel and l9x. Looks really good m

Posted by: That NLurker guy at October 02, 2022 04:06 PM (VdGjU)

10 Lox

Posted by: That NLurker guy at October 02, 2022 04:06 PM (VdGjU)

11 Since I was watching the game, I actually have to cook during this thread...I feel like that's a FWP, but I missed that thread mostly...

Tonight is a return to my Korean Beef Stir Fry using Hmart's on sale marinated beef. The veg tonight is a combo of the uber-cheap Hmart choices and the old stuff in the fridge. So, it's white onion, black oyster mushrooms, poblano peppers, yellow squash, watercress, cilantro, garlic, ginger, and s&p. And it's being served on top of white rice with green and red grapes and bananas (b/c those 3 fruits were all on a big HMart sale, so those fruits it is).

PS - Watercress and cilantro have been workhorses around here b/c HMart has had them so cheap. When green onions are now $2 for a tiny pack, cilantro still stays 50 cents for a big bunch (as does watercress when it is NOT on sale...when it is, it costs more - like $1)...

Posted by: Nova local at October 02, 2022 04:07 PM (exHjb)

12 Going back a few threads... I have another idea about the Nordstream explosion(s). I know this might sound crazy, but in contemporary times might not be... do we even know there were any explosions? Sure, we heard it I. The news, but who trusts the news anymore. I guess it brings up the same cui bono question, though, who benefits from the lie?

I'm going to stick with the explosions didn't happen anyway.

Posted by: InZona (formerly InCali) at October 02, 2022 04:07 PM (ep37o)

13 Chucks roasts are passably cheap here at the moment. So, I'm grabbing a few, sealing them carefully and stockpiling them in the freezer against the dark days ahead.
Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 02, 2022 04:04 PM (ZSK0i)


I wound up punting on a pork shoulder roast and cooked it for 3 hours at 275F in a covered casserole with potatoes, carrots, onions and covered with sauerkraut, and it was wonderful.
Even the drippings gravy and potatoes were wonderful

I have instructions on how to do a pork roast but I don't think I care any more. Even three days later the left overs are fabulous.

Posted by: Kindltot at October 02, 2022 04:08 PM (xhaym)

14 JTB and I do not enjoy hot peppers. We are willing to explore the taste of ancho, guajillo and New Mexico dried chiles. Anyone have thoughts re preparation, use, or recipies for newbies? Thanks.

Posted by: Mrs. JTB at October 02, 2022 04:09 PM (7EjX1)

15 Urg. Can't get the Pork Rillettes link to work.

Posted by: Emmie at October 02, 2022 04:09 PM (6RgRK)

16 PS - I love lox and I love steak tartare...two good choices for the thread!

I also love beef carpaccio, which gives you more pure beef flavor in a thinner, more digestible, (and to me, more upscale) form...

Posted by: Nova local at October 02, 2022 04:09 PM (exHjb)

17 I can't seem to make the recipe link work. Is it just me?

Posted by: irright at October 02, 2022 04:09 PM (NTUk0)

18 I've never had a bagel and l9x. Looks really good m
Posted by: That NLurker guy at October 02, 2022 04:06 PM (VdGjU)

C'mon man ! It's super good. Get a quality bagel and toast. Cheap bagels are not so great. I lik the everything bagel with lox, sometimes a thin slice of tomato as well.

You gotta try it.

Posted by: Hatari Somewhere on Ventura Highway at October 02, 2022 04:10 PM (WF/xn)

19 Iffn it's raw I ain't eating it unless it is fruit or celery.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at October 02, 2022 04:10 PM (bVYXr)

20 Oh I see it's not just me.

Posted by: irright at October 02, 2022 04:10 PM (NTUk0)

21 Next time I see some good salmon (not the farm raised crap) I'm buying some to smoke in the Traeger. I enjoy a good bagel and smoked salmon with cream cheese, capers and onions. The weather demands it.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 02, 2022 04:10 PM (BFigT)

22 Went to the state fair Friday and ate zero fried anything. I believe that is a first. All I had was a mediocre cup of elotes. Yesterday, I was determined to get a better cup of elotes at a place not far from me and I did. Craving fixed.

Posted by: Colonel Travis at October 02, 2022 04:10 PM (RG7Wy)

23 Just started eating bagels again but they're so big I can't eat a whole one. Sawed in half and toasted I can handle it with cream cheese or butter. I'll have to try a little onion and smoked salmon on one.

Posted by: dartist at October 02, 2022 04:10 PM (RxTXB)

24 Rillettes link is fixed....

Sorry about that.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:11 PM (XIJ/X)

25
So, I'm grabbing a few, sealing them carefully and stockpiling them in the freezer against the dark days ahead.
Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 02, 2022 04:04 PM (ZSK0i)

__________

Smart move. Meat prices are low at the moment but will skyrocket later. Lay in what you can.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at October 02, 2022 04:11 PM (1Nxff)

26 Chucks roasts are passably cheap here at the moment. So, I'm grabbing a few, sealing them carefully and stockpiling them in the freezer against the dark days ahead.
Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 02, 2022 04:04 PM (ZSK0i)

Yes !

Posted by: Hatari Somewhere on Ventura Highway at October 02, 2022 04:11 PM (WF/xn)

27 If you're gonna do a salmon bagel, what HAS to be with it is CAPERS. You cannot skip capers and have a great smoked salmon bagel.

I also like the raw red onion and (my now tofu) cream cheese..but the capers are always the must item...

Posted by: Nova local at October 02, 2022 04:11 PM (exHjb)

28 not a fan of a toasted bagel with lox

If you want a top rate B & L, go to Russ and Daughters in NYC and get their Gaspe smoked salmon

then to Simsbury CT to Brookside bagels for some poppyseed bagels

the combo is dangerous

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:12 PM (us2H3)

29 Working now. Thanks for the food thread, CBD.

Posted by: irright at October 02, 2022 04:12 PM (NTUk0)

30
Local breakfast place has bagel, cream cheese, smoked salmon with a poached egg on top. Super excellent.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at October 02, 2022 04:12 PM (1Nxff)

31 That Rillettes looks much like a Ukrainian dish, Salo.

Normally Salo (cured pork fat) is simply eaten sliced with fresh garlic, bread and vodka.

But you can also take it and put it through the grinder with the garlic, and mix in dill or other seasoning as you like. Spreads well on rye bread and tastes heavenly! (Plus vodka)

Posted by: Marty at October 02, 2022 04:12 PM (mSlty)

32 I love salmon that has a buttery texture, but that's one of the pricey varieties (don't recall which). However, I've found that if I drizzle salmon with olive oil before cooking, it's much better.

Posted by: Emmie at October 02, 2022 04:13 PM (6RgRK)

33 Thanks for the food thread, CBD.

Posted by: irright at October 02, 2022 04:12 PM (NTUk0)

Thanks for reading it!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:13 PM (XIJ/X)

34 Poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese.
-- G. K. Chesterton


Red Leicester's red
Roquefort is bleu
Mascarpone is sweet
and Limburger P.U.!!!

There you go, Georgie! Problem solved.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 02, 2022 04:13 PM (KLPy8)

35 I have instructions on how to do a pork roast but I don't think I care any more. Even three days later the left overs are fabulous.
Posted by: Kindltot at October 02, 2022 04:08 PM (xhaym)


Along those lines, I've got a couple bottles of Red Boat brand Kho Sauce just begging to go over a slow-cooked pork shoulder. That's next on the agenda.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 02, 2022 04:13 PM (ZSK0i)

36 JTB and I do not enjoy hot peppers. We are willing to explore the taste of ancho, guajillo and New Mexico dried chiles. Anyone have thoughts re preparation, use, or recipies for newbies? Thanks.
Posted by: Mrs. JTB at October 02, 2022 04:09 PM (

You might try some Anaheim or Pablanos

Posted by: Hatari Somewhere on Ventura Highway at October 02, 2022 04:14 PM (WF/xn)

37 don't know about now but horse tartare was quite common in Paris in the 70's

Americans make funny faces when told what it is

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:14 PM (us2H3)

38 Thanks for fixing the link, CBD!

Posted by: Emmie at October 02, 2022 04:14 PM (6RgRK)

39 Went to the state fair Friday and ate zero fried anything. I believe that is a first. All I had was a mediocre cup of elotes. Yesterday, I was determined to get a better cup of elotes at a place not far from me and I did. Craving fixed.
Posted by: Colonel Travis at October 02, 2022 04:10 PM (RG7Wy)


Elote is Mexican for "ear of corn" and from Guatemala south they are "Choclos"
What are you eating?

Posted by: Kindltot at October 02, 2022 04:14 PM (xhaym)

40 Busy bodies go into politics. When elected they do busy body things. Only vote for people who want to undo busy body things.

Posted by: Javems at October 02, 2022 04:15 PM (9kmCi)

41 We also always get the whipped cream cheese, because that's what the missus prefers and she is the certified bagel architect. But I like the harder to spread cream cheese better.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at October 02, 2022 04:15 PM (KFhLj)

42 Rillettes link is fixed....
Sorry about that.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:11 PM (XIJ/X)


They like you! They rillette rillette like you!

Posted by: Kindltot at October 02, 2022 04:15 PM (xhaym)

43 Posted by: Emmie at October 02, 2022 04:14 PM (6RgRK)

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:16 PM (XIJ/X)

44
Even to my stunted taste buds, the difference in flavor between farm-raised and wild-caught salmon is very noticeable.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at October 02, 2022 04:16 PM (1Nxff)

45 I've been binge watching Kent Rollins. He cooks almost everything in a cast iron Dutch oven.

Posted by: That NLurker guy at October 02, 2022 04:16 PM (VdGjU)

46 Hatari, Thanks. Will do.

Posted by: Mrs. JTB at October 02, 2022 04:17 PM (7EjX1)

47 Block cream cheese is best, and isn't too hard to spread if you slice it thin enough.

Posted by: Jack Squat Bupkis at October 02, 2022 04:17 PM (dQfJF)

48 I went to an auction in Germany 20 years ago and the little hotel I stayed in always had a big pile of gravlax at the breakfast bar

10 DM for the breakfast (5 bucks)

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:17 PM (us2H3)

49 However, I've found that if I drizzle salmon with olive oil before cooking, it's much better.
Posted by: Emmie at October 02, 2022 04:13 PM (6RgRK)


I keep forgetting important details. When I drizzle cheaper salmon with olive oil, it makes it taste more like the buttery expensive salmon.

Posted by: Emmie at October 02, 2022 04:18 PM (6RgRK)

50 I suppose I could smoke my own salmon for lox.

Posted by: That NLurker guy at October 02, 2022 04:18 PM (VdGjU)

51 not a fan of a toasted bagel with lox

If you want a top rate B & L, go to Russ and Daughters in NYC and get their Gaspe smoked salmon

then to Simsbury CT to Brookside bagels for some poppyseed bagels

the combo is dangerous

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:12 PM


While you are in Simsbury, CT hop over to Weathersfield, CT to City Fish and get the fish and chips. Second best fish and chips on the planet.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at October 02, 2022 04:18 PM (bVYXr)

52 I've been saving up various trimmings, and fat, (mostly pork), along with cheap on-sale cuts of beef from here and there, and I've got several pounds in the freezer now. I've got lots of collagen casings, and I'm about ready to make lots of beef sausage, and smoke it all for hours and hours.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at October 02, 2022 04:18 PM (CCf67)

53 The perfect bagel, as GOD intended.

Posted by: Eromero at October 02, 2022 04:19 PM (0OP+5)

54 the mandoline slicer was made for the bagel and lox

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:19 PM (us2H3)

55 44
Even to my stunted taste buds, the difference in flavor between farm-raised and wild-caught salmon is very noticeable.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at October 02, 2022 04:16 PM (1Nxff)

Actually, my kids would tell you the difference between Atlantic salmon and Coho salmon is much bigger, especially if both are fresh and wild caught.

I actually agreed with them - Coho is on our "don't buy again, even if Aldi's does make it 1/2 price" list...

Posted by: Nova local at October 02, 2022 04:20 PM (exHjb)

56 27 If you're gonna do a salmon bagel, what HAS to be with it is CAPERS.

Yeah, I always eat these with capers, and sliced tomato too.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at October 02, 2022 04:20 PM (KFhLj)

57 gotta sous vide that shit

Posted by: ghost of hallelujah at October 02, 2022 04:21 PM (sJHOI)

58 Cold smoked salmon are lox right?

Posted by: dartist at October 02, 2022 04:21 PM (RxTXB)

59 I've been binge watching Kent Rollins. He cooks almost everything in a cast iron Dutch oven.
Posted by: That NLurker guy at October 02, 2022 04:16 PM (VdGjU)


I like stews cooked in the dutch oven in the oven without the lid on, it has a different texture. Generally I use the top when I worry about it drying out.

On the stove top I also have the 10" cast iron pan that is easier to get into for stirring and wangjanglin,

Posted by: Kindltot at October 02, 2022 04:22 PM (xhaym)

60 14 JTB and I do not enjoy hot peppers. We are willing to explore the taste of ancho, guajillo and New Mexico dried chiles. Anyone have thoughts re preparation, use, or recipies for newbies? Thanks.
Posted by: Mrs. JTB at October 02, 2022 04:09 PM (7EjX1)
-------------------

Also try dried Anaheim and Cascabel, they are most mild.

If you heat a pan not too hot, cut open the dried chilies, heat them for a minute or two, don't scald them, put them in a tiny coffee grinder, you will have powder topping anything you can buy in a grocery store.

Posted by: Colonel Travis at October 02, 2022 04:22 PM (RG7Wy)

61 Apparently there's an Einstein bagels in the lobby of a local hospital. May have to try it. Grocery bagels are buns.

Posted by: DaveA at October 02, 2022 04:22 PM (FhXTo)

62 gotta sous vide that shit

Posted by: ghost of hallelujah at October 02, 2022 04:21 PM (sJHOI)

Especially the bagels!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:22 PM (XIJ/X)

63 The grocery store had vacuum packs of pork sirloin roasts on sale last week for .97 a pound. I bought about 16 pounds for $15. Made 5 pounds of carne adovada and froze half and then put the rest in the freezer to do something with later. They should be good smoked if I don't overcook them, and to make posole and green chile stew when it gets cold. I love a good pork sale.

Posted by: huerfano, stochastic commenter at October 02, 2022 04:22 PM (dTFZY)

64 Mrs. JTB, guajillo is not a hot pepper and is very easy to use. I make a dipping sauce for shrimp with guajillo and Mexican cream or you can make a tasty red sauce from them.

Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 04:22 PM (EE7s+)

65 While you are in Simsbury, CT hop over to Weathersfield, CT to City Fish and get the fish and chips. Second best fish and chips on the planet.
Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at October 02, 2022 04:18 PM (bVYXr)

I used to go to Clearinghouse auctions in Wethersfield every week

there is also a crazy Italian woman on the main drag that makes fessh pasta, daily

she is a treasure

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:23 PM (us2H3)

66 37 don't know about now but horse tartare was quite common in Paris in the 70's

Americans make funny faces when told what it is

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:14 PM (us2H3)

I have really liked steak Tartare the times I've had it. Never asked where it came from.

Posted by: Javems at October 02, 2022 04:23 PM (9kmCi)

67 Cold smoked salmon are lox right?

Posted by: dartist at October 02, 2022 04:21 PM (RxTXB)

I'm not sure of the difference, if there even is one.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:23 PM (XIJ/X)

68 That rillette recipe looks quite tasty.

Brian Polcyn/Michael Ruhlman's "Pate, Confit, Rillette: Recipes from the Craft of Charcutie" has an entire section on rillettes with one recipe "Wild Atlantic Salmon Rillettes with Dill and Shallot" looking like a nice hybrid of today's topics.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 02, 2022 04:23 PM (ZSK0i)

69 I grew up in the South my grandmother lived in Florida I would spend summers with her.

Her next door neighbor was Jewish. One day she offered me the biggest donut I had ever seen in my life. I took it to my grandmothers to have for breakfast the next day.

I woke up early and grabbed that donut and too a big bite...

It was not a donut.

Posted by: blaster at October 02, 2022 04:23 PM (pwExq)

70 Nope only open 6am to 4pm. So only when I'm there anyway.

Posted by: DaveA at October 02, 2022 04:24 PM (FhXTo)

71 67 Cold smoked salmon are lox right?

Posted by: dartist at October 02, 2022 04:21 PM (RxTXB)

I'm not sure of the difference, if there even is one.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:23 PM (XIJ/X)

No - Lox is just cured. Cold smoked salmon is cured and smoked.

Posted by: Nova local at October 02, 2022 04:24 PM (exHjb)

72 JTB and I do not enjoy hot peppers. We are willing to explore the taste of ancho, guajillo and New Mexico dried chiles. Anyone have thoughts re preparation, use, or recipies for newbies? Thanks.
Posted by: Mrs. JTB at October 02, 2022 04:09 PM (7EjX1)


My wife is Korean. I cannot help you. I can only teach you self defense methods.

Posted by: Kindltot at October 02, 2022 04:25 PM (xhaym)

73 Col. Travis, Thanks for the preparation info and pepper type.

Posted by: Mrs. JTB at October 02, 2022 04:25 PM (7EjX1)

74 So, there we were in Florence, brains buzzing from artsy stuff, and hungry, so -

we wandered into the central mercado and saw an olde-style workingman's sort of stand/eatery, which had been around since 1872 called "Nerbone". So, we had to eat there.

The lovely and adventurous Mrs naturalfake had their most famous dish, lampredotto. It turns out to be stewed tripe usually served as a sandwich.

I hear you say oh, no, naturalfake, Not Tripe!!! I've had menudo and 9 times out of 10 it tastes like straight up poo stew.
Ah, have no fear, my friends. The italians wash out there tripe generously and stew in various herbs and spices and wine. And lampredotto is very very yummy.

I had the stewed cow's stomach sandwich(their 2nd most famous) and it too was delightful.

I suggest you try Nerbone should you visit Florence and feel peckish.
Or, maybe better...those of you with ancient, old-world Italian grannies who still cook- get them to whip you up a batch of fine fresh lampredotto!

Posted by: naturalfake at October 02, 2022 04:25 PM (KLPy8)

75 Huge difference between smoked salmon and salmon lox.

Lox goes on bagels and on a salmon bennie.

Smoked goes on small rye bread squares. Or the way Pete Bog does it with crème freche and whatever else he did. Smoked also goes well in an omelette. Or a spread. Or a soufflé. Or stuffed in hard cooked eggs.

Mmmmmm

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 04:25 PM (CkL1Y)

76 I have really liked steak Tartare the times I've had it. Never asked where it came from.
Posted by: Javems at October 02, 2022 04:23 PM (9kmCi)

whenever asked if you would like to know the source of the tartare in Paris

just say "Nay"

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:25 PM (us2H3)

77 like stews cooked in the dutch oven in the oven without the lid on, it has a different texture. Generally I use the top when I worry about it drying out.

On the stove top I also have the 10" cast iron pan that is easier to get into for stirring and wangjanglin,
Posted by: Kindltot at October 02, 2022

Rollins uses coals.

Posted by: That NLurker guy at October 02, 2022 04:26 PM (VdGjU)

78 Two of some of my favorite things: Bagels and Lox, and Steak Tartare.

In Midtown NYC, the original (pre-renovation) Brasserie NYC, or Brasserie 8 1/2 (IIRC) both made fantastic steak tartares. Balthazar in SoHo hit the spot for me when I was downtown. Haven't lived in NYC in over 20 years, so I've lost track of what's great there these days. Had a hard time finding great ST in CT. Tuna tartare, on the other hand, has been extremely easy to find, especially since I discovered Rowayton Seafood in Norwalk.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at October 02, 2022 04:26 PM (9miN6)

79 Ben Had, Great ideas. Thanks.

Posted by: Mrs. JTB at October 02, 2022 04:26 PM (7EjX1)

80 I'm not sure of the difference, if there even is one.
----
I always thought cold smoked was raw, just enough to get the smoke into it and hot smoked is cooked.

Posted by: dartist at October 02, 2022 04:27 PM (RxTXB)

81 Hello Fellow Food Threaders,

As fall has set in here in the high chapparal one's heart and palate turns to roasted meats and vegetables and Pinot Noir.

Posted by: Pete Bog at October 02, 2022 04:27 PM (Jzz++)

82 Lox is cured with salt and spices in the refrigerator for a couple days. It is not cooked.

Smoked salmon is brined and then smoked. So it is cooked.

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 04:28 PM (CkL1Y)

83 Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 04:25 PM (CkL1Y)

I make salmon with creme fraiche for Passover instead of disgusting fish balls.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:28 PM (XIJ/X)

84 I have really liked steak Tartare the times I've had it. Never asked where it came from.
Posted by: Javems at October 02, 2022 04:23 PM (9kmCi)

the old butchers who sold horse would advertise with a zinc gilt horsehead over their door

I have bought and sold dozens, they are quite beautiful

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:29 PM (us2H3)

85 48hr Sous Vide 4lbs Chuck Roast tonight!

Posted by: redchief at October 02, 2022 04:29 PM (kMCI0)

86 Leckeres Essen!
Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy

Gesundheidt !

Posted by: JT at October 02, 2022 04:29 PM (T4tVD)

87 Anaheim peppers can be very mild to medium hot if I also grow jalapeños with them. Assume they cross pollen

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 04:29 PM (xhxe8)

88 If I'm going to have a seafood sandwich, it will be a fried oyster poor boy.

Posted by: Javems at October 02, 2022 04:29 PM (9kmCi)

89 Smoked salmon is brined and then smoked. So it is cooked.

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 04:28 PM (CkL1Y)

I think it is a continuum from lightly cured and delicate to more heavily cured to lightly smoked to heavily smoked to hot smoked (cooked).

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:29 PM (XIJ/X)

90 I make salmon with creme fraiche for Passover instead of disgusting fish balls.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:28 PM (XIJ/X)


CBD,

Do you have a recipe you could post for this?

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 02, 2022 04:30 PM (ZSK0i)

91 I make salmon with creme fraiche for Passover instead of disgusting fish balls.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

Omg. You're killing me here. My birthday is this week. You have my address.

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 04:30 PM (CkL1Y)

92 Do you have a recipe you could post for this?

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 02, 2022 04:30 PM (ZSK0i)

Wow. I just wing it. But let me think about it and I'll write a recipe.

Remind me though: cbd dot aoshq at geemail dot com

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:31 PM (XIJ/X)

93 So do you buy smoked salmon (or lox), or do you make your own? I’ve seen some smoked salmon recipes, but they don’t seem to be geared for my Webber kettle. Most seem to want a cold smoke, and I’m not set to do that.

I did find a recipe for Katz wanna-be pastrami that was very good.

Posted by: Advo at October 02, 2022 04:31 PM (LcnVR)

94 I'm guessing to ask women who come into the pub if it's wise to drink in their condition.

Posted by: That NLurker guy at October 02, 2022 04:32 PM (VdGjU)

95 I have bought and sold dozens, they are quite beautiful

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:29 PM (us2H3)

Just prying a bit, but what made you get out of the business?

Posted by: Javems at October 02, 2022 04:32 PM (9kmCi)

96 88 If I'm going to have a seafood sandwich, it will be a fried oyster poor boy.
Posted by: Javems at October 02, 2022 04:29 PM (9kmCi)

if you are ver in Dallas, S & D makes a pretty good one

it was a 1 minute walk out the back of my antique shop

so I have had a few

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:32 PM (us2H3)

97 Rollins uses coals.
Posted by: That NLurker guy at October 02, 2022 04:26 PM (VdGjU)


Then he probably doesn't need a stock pot for making jam, or bouillon

Posted by: Kindltot at October 02, 2022 04:33 PM (xhaym)

98 I think it is a continuum from lightly cured and delicate to more heavily cured to lightly smoked to heavily smoked to hot smoked (cooked).
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:29 PM (XIJ/X)


You are correct, sir.

In general, you don't want the smoke hot enough to actually cook the salmon, which is a big pain in the butt. Even with a pellet smoker and ice around the salmon in a lower smoking drawer.

Ask me how I know! Not sure it's worth the effort when you can get good smoked salmon almost everywhere now.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 02, 2022 04:33 PM (KLPy8)

99 nurse, Pete Bog is here to answer but I think he put some cucumber in that mixture.

Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 04:33 PM (EE7s+)

100 hiya

Posted by: JT at October 02, 2022 04:34 PM (T4tVD)

101 Fud !

Posted by: JT at October 02, 2022 04:34 PM (T4tVD)

102 I think it is a continuum from lightly cured and delicate to more heavily cured to lightly smoked to heavily smoked to hot smoked (cooked).
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

The picture above looks like lox, or the scandahoovian "gravlax" which I have made following a recipe in The Silver Palate cookbook. It is a little tedious, but the results were incredible. Neither are cooked. They cure in the fridge.

Smoked can also be somewhat rare, but it still is brined, rinsed and then smoked.

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 04:35 PM (U2p+3)

103 Isn't there a subtle difference between "Lox" and smoked salmon?

I have smoked salmon many times and it doesn't have the texture Lox does. I thought Lox was "dry brined" then cold smoked, or not, depending on one's tastes.

I see some recipes for "Lox" and it appears pretty easy. It's the cold smoking I'd have to figure out as my Traeger doesn't do "cold."

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 02, 2022 04:35 PM (BFigT)

104 Remind me though: cbd dot aoshq at geemail dot com
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:31 PM (XIJ/X)


E-mail sent. >8^>

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 02, 2022 04:35 PM (ZSK0i)

105 Just prying a bit, but what made you get out of the business?
Posted by: Javems at October 02, 2022 04:32 PM (9kmCi)

after 2008 finicial crisis, it got kinda hard to sell expensive antiques

coulda worked twice as hard for half the money

and the capital outlay at that level is onerous

45 years was enuff

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:36 PM (us2H3)

106 You are correct, sir.

In general, you don't want the smoke hot enough to actually cook the salmon, which is a big pain in the butt. Even with a pellet smoker and ice around the salmon in a lower smoking drawer.

Ask me how I know! Not sure it's worth the effort when you can get good smoked salmon almost everywhere now.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 02, 2022 04:33 PM


It's like smoking cheese, temperature control is critical, you can mess it up pretty quick.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at October 02, 2022 04:36 PM (bVYXr)

107 Chili, rice, and whiskey for supper.

Posted by: Eromero at October 02, 2022 04:36 PM (0OP+5)

108 As usual.. I'm a day late and dollar short.

Discussion right above my comments at 103...

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 02, 2022 04:36 PM (BFigT)

109 Lox vs smoked salmon

https://tinyurl.com/2p8rfmr5

Posted by: dartist at October 02, 2022 04:36 PM (RxTXB)

110 I posted a photo, to the Deplorable Gourmet group on MeWe, of some vintage cookbooks/pamphlets a member of my writer’s group gave me. If anyone’s going to TxMoMe and wants one, just let me know and I’ll bring it for you.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at October 02, 2022 04:37 PM (U+Oxn)

111 The less said about raw Philadelphia cream cheese on a bagel, the better. But gently blend in a significant amount of good quality heavy cream (NOT the kind with thickeners, the kind that comes in a glass bottle), and you've got some proper cream cheese with your bagel.

I just had a great bagel with lox and cream cheese. Sesame bagel and scallion cream cheese and Nova lox from Ess-a-Bagel via Goldbelly. Lacking red onion, I used shallot, which was a reasonable, but not perfect substitute.

One thing I like about making them at home is that I get to decide how much salmon goes on there, and it's not a single layer. Also I toast the bagel more than most places do.

Posted by: Splunge at October 02, 2022 04:38 PM (cm/80)

112 Smoked can also be somewhat rare, but it still is brined, rinsed and then smoked.
----
Nurse can probably walk to the best smoked salmon I have ever tasted.

Posted by: dartist at October 02, 2022 04:40 PM (RxTXB)

113 > Lox vs smoked salmon

https://tinyurl.com/2p8rfmr5
Posted by: dartist
_____________

The exact site/page I was looking at!

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 02, 2022 04:40 PM (BFigT)

114 Also I toast the bagel more than most places do.

Posted by: Splunge at October 02, 2022 04:38 PM (cm/80)

I do not toast my bagel. I think it changes the texture of the bagel far too much.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:40 PM (XIJ/X)

115 Never had steak tartare but I guess I would try it. Seems a little fru-fru though. That must be, what, two or three ounces of meat there?

Posted by: Oddbob at October 02, 2022 04:41 PM (nfrXX)

116 That must be, what, two or three ounces of meat there?

Posted by: Oddbob at October 02, 2022 04:41 PM (nfrXX)

It's usually served as an appetizer, although I have ordered it as a main course too!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:42 PM (XIJ/X)

117 I do not toast my bagel. I think it changes the texture of the bagel far too much.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

Agreed. But you left out the capers, fresh ground pepper and the four drops of fresh lemon juice.

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 04:42 PM (U2p+3)

118 I make salmon with creme fraiche for Passover instead of disgusting fish balls.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:28 PM (XIJ/X)

Isn't that a future food thread where you try to improve the lowly "fish ball"?

Posted by: Nova local at October 02, 2022 04:43 PM (exHjb)

119 114 I do not toast my bagel. I think it changes the texture of the bagel far too much.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:40 PM (XIJ/X)


It changes it a lot, true. I like the change, though. Also I am a slave to the Maillard reaction. Goes double for a sesame bagel. Raw sesame seeds are boring. Toasted sesame seeds are magical.

Posted by: Splunge at October 02, 2022 04:44 PM (cm/80)

120 Speaking of Spanish chorizo - a great and simple(ish) recipe for pu-pu's...

- Bunch of nice, fat dates
- Spanish chorizo cut into long strips to stuff the dates with but not hang out the ends too much
- Partially cooked bacon - still soft enough to wrap dates - and mostly rendered
- Toothpicks well soaked in water

Stuff the dates with chorizo, then wrap with bacon, hold together with toothpicks. When ready to serve, put onto a medium-high grill and crisp bacon up, turning often. Serve with adult beverage of your choice (Vodka martinis are a good start).

Posted by: clutch cargo - Now fortified with CPM-S90V at October 02, 2022 04:45 PM (zB/T/)

121 My daughter and I make homemade bagels. Fairly easy and they’re good.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at October 02, 2022 04:45 PM (u73oe)

122 That pic is perfection.

I'll be having my Break Fast lox bagel with whitefish salad, and Mrs. F's deviled eggs.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at October 02, 2022 04:45 PM (EZebt)

123 When I moved to NYC my go to lunch was Tuna Salad on a bagel. When I first got there I ordered a tuna sandwich at a deli for the first time. The guy asked me if I wanted it on a hard roll and I told him no, I want a fresh roll. Damn New Yorkers.

Posted by: polynikes at October 02, 2022 04:45 PM (9MoRr)

124 Happy Birthday Nurse!

Ben Had was right that the Creme Fraiche was juiced. Fine dice shallots, a little lemon juice and depending on how salty the salmon, maybe a little salt. Capers or dill with a bite of smoked salmon on a toast or cracker.

I may go dig around in the freezer to look for some smoked salmon now.

Posted by: Pete Bog at October 02, 2022 04:45 PM (Jzz++)

125 The exact site/page I was looking at!
----
I might try the homemade recipe. This thread always makes me hungry!

Posted by: dartist at October 02, 2022 04:46 PM (RxTXB)

126 Never could eat fish. Mom make baked swordfish when I was a kid, with lemon. It was okay. Dad hated fish so was never exposed to it much.

nurse, I also have a bday this week. Happy Birthday to you!

Posted by: Infidel at October 02, 2022 04:46 PM (Ur3ox)

127 ...But you left out the capers, fresh ground pepper and the four drops of fresh lemon juice.
Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 04:42 PM (U2p+3)


Yup. You need that sour* to relieve the inherent heaviness of smoked salmon, cream cheese, and dense chewy bagel glommed together.

*4 drops??? Really? Done with an eye-dropper I hope. Just to be precise and all.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 02, 2022 04:47 PM (KLPy8)

128 I love fish, but can't stand lemon on it. I think I was traumatized as a youth, eating at restaurants that overcooked their fish and then put lemon on it. Or it's just taste. I've never thought lemon goes with fish, it's too assertive for something that should have such delicate, subtle flavors, and too acidic for the sweetness of fresh fish.

Posted by: Splunge at October 02, 2022 04:49 PM (cm/80)

129 117 I do not toast my bagel. I think it changes the texture of the bagel far too much.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

Agreed. But you left out the capers, fresh ground pepper and the four drops of fresh lemon juice.
Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 04:42 PM (U2p+3)

I need the capers with my bagel, lox, cream cheese and red onion. I'd really like to not toast the bagel, but for me to do that it has to be really, really freshly made and warm before I tried it. You definitely don't want to toast the bagel too much, however. Never thought about that before your comment, CBD, but you have a point.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at October 02, 2022 04:49 PM (9miN6)

130 The delightful and daring Mrs naturalfake bought some fresh swordfish recently.

Marinated it and I grilled it. Delish!

BONUS! The parasites had the good manners to stay completely out of sight...uh...if not out of mouth.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 02, 2022 04:50 PM (KLPy8)

131 > The exact site/page I was looking at!
----
I might try the homemade recipe. This thread always makes me hungry!
__________

There's a couple YouTube vids too. The weight thing was... interesting. But they say it helps with the curing by flattening out the fish and pushing the salt into the flesh evenly.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 02, 2022 04:50 PM (BFigT)

132 114 I do not toast my bagel. I think it changes the texture of the bagel far too much.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 04:40 PM (XIJ/X)


Back in another life I had a fantastic bagel bakery walking distance from the house. They made their own cream cheese spread that was fantastic, and serious lox. I'd just go in in the mornings and ask for a dozen and a half of whatever just came out of the oven. My employees loved me. It's tough to beat that texture and it sure can't be replicated by reheating.

Funny enough, a "Noah's bagels" opened across the street (do they still exist?) there was already 2 starbucks kitty-corner. That stuff was like funny looking wonder bread - but they were always busy. No accounting for taste.

Posted by: clutch cargo - Now fortified with CPM-S90V at October 02, 2022 04:51 PM (zB/T/)

133 128 I love fish, but can't stand lemon on it. I think I was traumatized as a youth, eating at restaurants that overcooked their fish and then put lemon on it. Or it's just taste. I've never thought lemon goes with fish, it's too assertive for something that should have such delicate, subtle flavors, and too acidic for the sweetness of fresh fish.

Posted by: Splunge
==================
Lemon is/was used to eliminate fishy odors. Lemon pepper combo actually works for some fish that are simply very bland otherwise--cod for example.

Posted by: whig at October 02, 2022 04:51 PM (CXr4y)

134 I do not toast my bagel. I think it changes the texture of the bagel far too much.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

my fav is a toasted poppyseed bagel

the toasting makes the seeds pop

hey, wait a minute !!

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:52 PM (us2H3)

135 for you would be Salmon Smokers out there. Hard to beat a "Little Chief" smoker. very low temperature, sort of like an easy bake oven. the recipe book is worth the purchase price.

https://tinyurl.com/ycymdcbm

Posted by: Pete Bog at October 02, 2022 04:53 PM (Jzz++)

136 nurse, Happy Happy Happy Birthday!. A raised glass of Watershed to you.

Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 04:53 PM (EE7s+)

137 Splunge,
How about malt vinegar with your fried cod?

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 04:54 PM (U2p+3)

138 I scoop and toast.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at October 02, 2022 04:54 PM (EZebt)

139 105 Just prying a bit, but what made you get out of the business?
Posted by: Javems at October 02, 2022 04:32 PM (9kmCi)
after 2008 finicial crisis, it got kinda hard to sell expensive antiques
coulda worked twice as hard for half the money

and the capital outlay at that level is onerous
45 years was enuff
Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:36 PM (us2H3)
actually, all this is just a BS way of saying I lost my nerve
when you're 20, you aint afraid of anything
at 60, being broke scares the shit out of you

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:55 PM (us2H3)

140 Ben had! Not today!
But this week!!!!!! And infidel too!

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 04:55 PM (U2p+3)

141 I eat my fair share of bagels, granted store bought but eh better than nothing. Have had good bagels so know there is a difference, and plenty of place around to get them
Cinnamon or blueberry are better for me than Pop Tarts for break time.

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 04:56 PM (xhxe8)

142 Been using Ninja Foodi recently for a number of dishes b/c of recent dietary limits.

Made a Paella last night that has been quite good despite not being cooked on the stove top. Still had the crust on it despite having to substitute some lower fat and salt products from the traditional ones. Also substituted black eye peas for english peas and that worked as well.

Posted by: whig at October 02, 2022 04:56 PM (CXr4y)

143 > Hard to beat a "Little Chief" smoker.
___________

Learned to smoke salmon on this one.

+1

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 02, 2022 04:56 PM (BFigT)

144 I have a combination FWP/food comment.

I was gifted a Bradley smoker because their silly bisquets are "hard to get around these parts." (Amazon had them to me in 4 days.)

Anyway, third time using it and bisquet feeder broke.

Then my $90 ThermoWorks BBQ probe shit the bed.

All this after I could never get the stupid Pit Barrel Cooker to work properly.

Perhaps I am simply not destined to smoke meat.

Posted by: Baron Munchausen at October 02, 2022 04:57 PM (C1NyB)

145 The little aluminum box Little Chief is indeed perfect for smoking salmon.

Super easy and you don't need a large deck or outdoor space.

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 04:59 PM (U2p+3)

146 Well then I will revise my comment. Happy Pre Birthday wishes to two lovely ladies and two glasses of Watershed for me.

Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 05:00 PM (EE7s+)

147 And a toasted cinnamon bagel with peanut butter and jelly was a favorite to go snack for my boys.

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 05:01 PM (U2p+3)

148 Cinnamon or blueberry are better for me than Pop Tarts for break time.
Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 04:56 PM (xhxe
===
I have tried more than once to help you turn away from such sin...

Posted by: San Franpsycho at October 02, 2022 05:02 PM (EZebt)

149 Thank you Ben Had!

Soon!!!!

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 05:02 PM (U2p+3)

150 got some spare honey crisps and gonna roast them with some pancetta and Brussels sprouts

line forms on the left

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 05:04 PM (us2H3)

151 RE: da Baaagels mit Lox...don't fergit da Capers.
I prefer my schmere to be scallion creme cheese.
When choosing the bagel it varies between, Poppy seed, Salt, and Everything...whichever new batch looks crusty-est. Then have them toast it again. Crusty AND chewy are crucial.

Posted by: birddog at October 02, 2022 05:04 PM (uAI4S)

152 Any brand and model recommendations for a pellet grill?

Looking to acquire one.

Posted by: whig at October 02, 2022 05:04 PM (CXr4y)

153 Cameron's makes a stove top smoker that uses 1 1/2 tbsp of chips. Wonder if that would cold smoke salmon. Forgot I even had the thing.

Posted by: dartist at October 02, 2022 05:04 PM (RxTXB)

154 Better go make supper, have hoagie roll, heat meatballs and sauce, provolone then broil in oven to toast

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 05:05 PM (xhxe8)

155 Thanks Ben Had and nurse. Left over pot roast tonight.

Posted by: Infidel at October 02, 2022 05:07 PM (Ur3ox)

156 "Who among you would say to your servant
who has just come in from plowing or tending sheep in the field,
'Come here immediately and take your place at table'?
Would he not rather say to him,
'Prepare something for me to eat.
Put on your apron and wait on me while I eat and drink.
You may eat and drink when I am finished'?
Is he grateful to that servant because he did what was commanded?
So should it be with you."

Posted by: Marcus T at October 02, 2022 05:08 PM (EOVrh)

157 I hate to leave the food thread early but the Lovely and Talented Mrs Bog has suggested I assist her in a couple of chores. I have been advised by others on this blog to keep her happy or else!

Ben Had don't forget the hot sauce challenge!

Posted by: Pete Bog at October 02, 2022 05:08 PM (Jzz++)

158 gotta a feeling tomorrow is going to hell in the stock market

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 05:08 PM (us2H3)

159 Yay, Food Thread!

Re the rillettes, Food Wishes has a fun one made with chicken thighs and seasoned as Buffalo chicken. Would be fun for a party.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at October 02, 2022 05:10 PM (Wnv9h)

160 154 Better go make supper, have hoagie roll, heat meatballs and sauce, provolone then broil in oven to toast
Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 05:05 PM (xhxe

Meatball subs are awesome...

Of course, that's the main dish...now my kids want sides with it!

Posted by: Nova local at October 02, 2022 05:10 PM (exHjb)

161 That lox on a bagel looks pretty outstanding.

Posted by: Marcus T at October 02, 2022 05:11 PM (EOVrh)

162 Any brand and model recommendations for a pellet grill?

Looking to acquire one.

Posted by: whig at October 02, 2022 05:04 PM


Go big or go broke messing around, I recommend the Traeger series. Expensive but I have had zero issues with the one I have owned for almost four years.


Went with a pit boss first and had nothing but problems with it and their customer support sucked. It literally took me 4 months to get a response to a trouble ticket I started on my grill for having extreme prolonged temp swings. I kept getting the run around on the phone "we are at peak grilling season and our phone lines are busy and we can't help you now" and they would not respond to emails other than a canned automated response.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at October 02, 2022 05:11 PM (bVYXr)

163 Pete Bog just reminded me to tell all you "HOT" hot sauce lovers to bring your favorite with you to the MoMe. There will be a test!

Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 05:12 PM (EE7s+)

164 8 i know nothing about bagels, but am given to understand that elon musk is obsessed wit launching large quantities of lox into orbit.

Posted by: kulak anachronda at October 02, 2022 04:06 PM (edU/H)
----
No, it all gets consumed before orbit is reached. You know, greedy rockets.

Posted by: Ciampino used to make rockets but not well at October 02, 2022 05:13 PM (qfLjt)

165 MoMe? One of those coming up soon?

Posted by: Weasel at October 02, 2022 05:13 PM (0IeYL)

166 So my wife comes to me last night to tell me there’s a Lamar’s donuts close by which I guess is a thing in KC.

It’s really close! 1.3 miles away.
How about that.
And the have all your favorites!
Is that right?
I’m not saying you should go tomorrow, just anytime you felt like it. Sometime on a weekend.
I see. And if I went, what would you want?
Here’s a list.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at October 02, 2022 05:14 PM (u73oe)

167 Any brand and model recommendations for a pellet grill?
Looking to acquire one.
Posted by: whig at October 02, 2022 05:04 PM (CXr4y)


I bought mine at the beginning of the Pellet Grill Revolution, so while it was pricey. It wasn't insane AND it had an area for over flame grilling which most PGs didn't have. Gotta have a grilling area otherwise you're just getting a smoky oven.

Anyway, it was a Cookshack PG500 "Fast Eddy".

Holy Kau!!! I just checked the price now. Forget the PG500. It is insanely priced now. A bit over triple what I paid.

Wow...anyway, plenty of other good ones out there these days.

My bro recently bought a lump charcoal version of a pellet grill from Masterbuilt called the Gravity Grill. It comes in 3 varieties and he is happy as hell with his. Thinks it's the best grill he ever owned.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 02, 2022 05:16 PM (KLPy8)

168 When Marine was in town over the summer, he wanted some ribeyes and salmon. I was cooking at son #1 house and we couldn't get his gas grill hot enough. So, we used the traeger, turned it up to 375 and hot smoked everything. Holy crap! Really really good. The kids (in their 20s now, but still...) demolished everything. It was a feeding frenzy of 15.

I've also smoked a bunch of stuff, including Cornish game hens. You just have to pop them in the oven for about ten minutes to crisp up
The skin.

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 05:16 PM (U2p+3)

169 Chili, jalapeno corn bread and apple pie today. Wife's b'day dinner. Her b'day is Tues. but I like to put it on early so we can eat it all day and it takes me a 6 pack to cook it.

Posted by: olddog in mo at October 02, 2022 05:18 PM (ju2Fy)

170 Doing test runs on the sopes. Black bean refries, fajita seasoned beef and mango salsa with roasted jalapeno and lime.

Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 05:18 PM (EE7s+)

171 We have Einstein Brothers here, but not open when I head to work. When I'm off duty I take Mrs. E there on a date.

Posted by: Eromero at October 02, 2022 05:19 PM (0OP+5)

172 Mrs. JTB asked about chilis, especially dried chilis. One of the packages we got says only 'New Mexico Chilis'. Is that a specific kind of chili and, if so, how hot is it compared to ancho or guajillo? They look exactly like the contents of the guajillo package.

I'll repeat our thanks for the advice. Trying to use any pepper hotter than bell peppers is brand new to us.

Posted by: JTB at October 02, 2022 05:20 PM (7EjX1)

173 Ah, about the hot sauce:
be careful if you are flying to the MoMe that the liquid in your carryon doesn't exceed the size allowed.

And CBD, the only thing off about that bagel is that it should be a plain bagel and capers are a good touch.
My favorite restaurant in MA served a smoked salmon appetizer that came with small pieces of pumpernickel, red onion, capers and a mustardy sauce that was just divine.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at October 02, 2022 05:21 PM (Y+l9t)

174 One of the better lox and bagel sandwiches I had was at Russ and Daughters on Houston.

Posted by: Marcus T at October 02, 2022 05:21 PM (TbpGr)

175 olddog, my chili today was cheat chili but dang good, and it had pintos in it. But no carrots or peanut butter.

Posted by: Eromero at October 02, 2022 05:22 PM (0OP+5)

176 Mrs. JTB asked about chilis, especially dried chilis. One of the packages we got says only 'New Mexico Chilis'. Is that a specific kind of chili and, if so, how hot is it compared to ancho or guajillo?

Wiki says New Mexico chilies are their own specific cultivar. And when grown in the Hatch Valley around Hatch, NM, you get the classic Hatch chile. That being the case, the result can range from mild to fairly hot, especially when compared to anchos and guajillos.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 02, 2022 05:24 PM (ZSK0i)

177 176 ... ABA,
Thanks. That's just the kind of information we needed about New Mexico chilis.

Posted by: JTB at October 02, 2022 05:27 PM (7EjX1)

178 Finally found a shoo-fly pie at store today for a little later

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 05:27 PM (xhxe8)

179 I am puzzled by those weird bagel flavors. Blueberry? That's disturbing on so many levels.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 05:28 PM (XIJ/X)

180 Russ and Daughters on Houston.

Posted by: Marcus T at October 02, 2022 05:21 PM (TbpGr)

They are great at what they do. Everything is excellent, but oh man, they are now quite expensive.




Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 05:30 PM (XIJ/X)

181 That bagel with the lox looks great and is a real treat. I should learn to make my own. I haven't been in NYC in over 40 years and can't imagine any circumstances that would get me to go.

Sadly, Mrs. JTB is allergic to any fish or shellfish and can't share in such bounty.

Posted by: JTB at October 02, 2022 05:30 PM (7EjX1)

182 Eromero, no carrots or PB in mine either. Pinto and black beans. Jalapenos and chipotle peppers in adobo. Bacon and onions. Plus more goodies.

Posted by: olddog in mo at October 02, 2022 05:31 PM (ju2Fy)

183 I've probably mentioned this before but my father owned a Jewish bakery when I was growing up. The bagels were boiled. That is why they were chewy, thinner than what you see today and didn't need to be toasted. Pumpernickel, Challah bread, bulkie rolls.
The result is that I am never satisfied with store bought bread. I am alwasy looking for something to match the textures of the breads I grew up with.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at October 02, 2022 05:31 PM (Y+l9t)

184 JTB, poblanos are great for stuffing. Be sure to roast them until the skin turns black. Peel, stuff and enjoy.

Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 05:31 PM (EE7s+)

185 I am puzzled by those weird bagel flavors. Blueberry? That's disturbing on so many levels.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 05:28 PM (XIJ/X)


Just about anything bread or breadline or in the baking universe can be improved with the addition of blueberries.

But, if I'm eating a blueberry bagel, I'm not putting salmon on it.

Maybe honey and butter or jam. Something like that..
Cream cheese would be alright.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 02, 2022 05:33 PM (KLPy8)

186 I'm a WASP, what do you expect?

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 05:33 PM (xhxe8)

187 Avoid Atlantic salmon. Get Pacific/Alaskan.

Posted by: SFGoth at October 02, 2022 05:34 PM (KAi1n)

188 sharon (willow's apprentice), we will never again things as they used to be, especially bagels.

Posted by: Eromero at October 02, 2022 05:34 PM (0OP+5)

189 Doing test runs on the sopes. Black bean refries, fajita seasoned beef and mango salsa with roasted jalapeno and lime.

Posted by: Ben Had

Oh, that sounds amazing. I love the fruity sweet with the spicy hot.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at October 02, 2022 05:35 PM (Y+l9t)

190 187 Avoid Atlantic salmon. Get Pacific/Alaskan.
Posted by: SFGoth at October 02, 2022 05:34 PM (KAi1n)

If I was on that coast, I'd agree. But when you're on the opposite one, well, you don't even get offered Pacific/Alaskan in most regular groceries...at least not fresh...and frozen is tragic for texture...

Posted by: Nova local at October 02, 2022 05:38 PM (exHjb)

191 Yum, love stuffed poblanos. Made some pork ones last week.

Posted by: olddog in mo at October 02, 2022 05:39 PM (ju2Fy)

192 Sharon, for appetizer night.

Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 05:39 PM (EE7s+)

193 Never had steak tartare in a restaurant but will happily make my own. (Even when I cook a steak, part of it is thin sliced, with a touch of salt and pepper, and eaten raw. Delish!) My grandfather made something we called a cannibal sandwich. He ground steak with onions through a manual food grinder then mixed in olive oil, capers, herbs and probably some spices I can't recall. I think lemon juice was involved. Chill in the fridge and pick up some in pieces of pita bread.

Probably where my preference for rare, rare steak came from.

Posted by: JTB at October 02, 2022 05:39 PM (7EjX1)

194 Thanks for the Fabulous Food Thread, CBD!

Enjoyed a very tasty bagel with "schmear" and red onion and lox at Siegel's in Las Vegas. Highly recommend.

Posted by: Legally Sufficient at October 02, 2022 05:43 PM (Oaem6)

195 170 Doing test runs on the sopes. Black bean refries, fajita seasoned beef and mango salsa with roasted jalapeno and lime.
Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 05:18 PM (EE7s+)
------------

Lawdy.....
Can't wait

Posted by: Colonel Travis at October 02, 2022 05:43 PM (RG7Wy)

196 If I was on that coast, I'd agree. But when you're on the opposite one, well, you don't even get offered Pacific/Alaskan in most regular groceries...at least not fresh...and frozen is tragic for texture...
----
At least you're near an ocean, I couldn't guess where the seafood comes from in the Chicago area. Probably the Chicago river.

Posted by: dartist at October 02, 2022 05:43 PM (RxTXB)

197
The wife and I go to Aldi's once every three weeks now. The salmon is usually in the 8.49/ pound range and ocean, not farm raise. I'll partition the fillet into three slices of about 3/4 pound apiece, then add a tablespoon of butter to each then vacuum seal. When time to prepare, sous vide at 170 degrees for... a while, I'm less than anal about stuff. Long enough, probably an hour plus.

Buttery end result, but could be a little flakier. I think the butter is the reason. But the wife likes the buttery flavor more than the flakiness. So I compromise and she gets her way.

My favorite way to grill salmon is over an open wood flame, weather permitting, which most of the time is not.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at October 02, 2022 05:43 PM (y3pKJ)

198 Wife likes salmon but Atlantic or frozen is all I can get

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 05:43 PM (xhxe8)

199 I am at the age that my tummy prefers a good meat loaf to a good pot roast no matter how tender the meat is.



Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at October 02, 2022 05:44 PM (C1rbv)

200 when you're 20, you aint afraid of anything
at 60, being broke scares the shit out of you

Posted by: REDACTED at October 02, 2022 04:55 PM (us2H3)

I know what you mean. When I hit mid 50's I become a drone. Safest way.

Posted by: Javems at October 02, 2022 05:44 PM (9kmCi)

201 Thanks natural fake for the cookshack recco but 3400 is a bit more than I want to spend. Mr. Scott, was wondering about the Traegar as it gets good reviews for the base model.

Posted by: whig at October 02, 2022 05:46 PM (CXr4y)

202 196 If I was on that coast, I'd agree. But when you're on the opposite one, well, you don't even get offered Pacific/Alaskan in most regular groceries...at least not fresh...and frozen is tragic for texture...
----
At least you're near an ocean, I couldn't guess where the seafood comes from in the Chicago area. Probably the Chicago river.
Posted by: dartist at October 02, 2022 05:43 PM (RxTXB)

Yeah, I didn't eat as much seafood when I lived in Ohio...I did eat more Chinese (China Cottage - the best value Chinese place I've ever eaten at!)...

Posted by: Nova local at October 02, 2022 05:47 PM (exHjb)

203 There's a good bagel recipe in The Himemade Kitchen by Alana Chernila. It's a good cookbook. She does boil, then bake so the texture is right. I have some everything seasoning from The Spice House, so I should make a batch.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at October 02, 2022 05:48 PM (uz3Px)

204 Colonel Travis, that will be with the pork sopes, brisket nachos, argentine shrimp with guajillo dipping sauce, green chili and some other stuff.

Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 05:48 PM (EE7s+)

205 My favorite way to prepare salmon as I don;t have a grill is to top it with a paste of brown sugar, mustard, balsamic and EVOO and broil until it melts and creates a little crusty top. Don't turn it over and leave the skin o n the bottom. It will slide ride off the skin with a spatula to serve.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at October 02, 2022 05:49 PM (Y+l9t)

206 "They are great at what they do. Everything is excellent, but oh man, they are now quite expensive.




Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 05:30 PM (XIJ/X)"

I think with tax that lox sandwich is almost $20 now.

Posted by: Marcus T at October 02, 2022 05:49 PM (TbpGr)

207 Seize the Bagel in SW WA makes a decent bagel and their lox sandwich does have capers and red onion.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at October 02, 2022 05:51 PM (uz3Px)

208 So is the salmon cooked? Smoked? I have never had the classic.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at October 02, 2022 05:51 PM (dNqv+)

209 Ben Had, I wish I lived next door to you as I would gladly be your recipe taste tester. (-:

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at October 02, 2022 05:51 PM (Y+l9t)

210 Notsothoreau if you were next door I would trade you fresh bagles for fixing your windoe

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 05:53 PM (xhxe8)

211 Ben Had - Thank you in advance! What a terrific host.

Posted by: Colonel Travis at October 02, 2022 05:54 PM (RG7Wy)

212 Colonel Travis, I'm just the sous chef. Wait til you see what Pete Bog and Rancherbob do!

Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 05:59 PM (EE7s+)

213 Picked 50 jalopenos from the garden this morning. Made a batch of fermented lime, cilantro jalopenos but still have about 10 peppers left. Thinking of dehydrating them and making jalopeno powder... Making stuffed shells tonight for dinner, might have to put some hot peppers in that too.

Posted by: WeeKreekFarmGirl at October 02, 2022 05:59 PM (k/+fq)

214 Wife likes salmon but Atlantic or frozen is all I can get

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 05:43 PM (xhxe

I am lucky that I have a great local fish store, and even their farmed Atlantic salmon is a cut above the commodity stuff from most places.

And sometimes they have fresh salmon from Alaska, which is a treat, but I do think that the Atlantic stuff is quite good.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 06:00 PM (XIJ/X)

215 213 Picked 50 jalopenos from the garden this morning. Made a batch of fermented lime, cilantro jalopenos but still have about 10 peppers left. Thinking of dehydrating them and making jalopeno powder... Making stuffed shells tonight for dinner, might have to put some hot peppers in that too.
Posted by: WeeKreekFarmGirl at October 02, 2022 05:59 PM (k/+fq)

10 seems like the perfect amount for stuffed jalapenos...

Posted by: Nova local at October 02, 2022 06:01 PM (exHjb)

216 137 Splunge,
How about malt vinegar with your fried cod?
Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 04:54 PM (U2p+3)


Jury's still out. I have eaten fish and chips in restaurants, choosing between dipping tubs of malt vinegar and tartar sauce. I still favor the tartar sauce, but I'm starting to sort of get the malt vinegar, except for the part about compromising the crunch. But that's a much milder acidity than lemon.

I am not against acidic influences in fish dishes. One of the best fish dishes I ever had was in a nearly empty room in a Hong Kong restaurant. It was a Hangzhou whole fish with a mild, subtle vinegar based sauce, and it was ambrosia. The place later got a Michelin star and is always full, or was, last I checked.

Acidity is fine with fish, in moderation, but, to my taste, mild vinegars are a much better fit than sharp citrus.

Posted by: Splunge at October 02, 2022 06:02 PM (cm/80)

217 CBD, another great food thread. Only thing better would be to sit at your table.

Is that what I think it is in the jar?

Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 06:03 PM (EE7s+)

218 I pickled my jalapenos. Only had a single plant but got 4 jars ofpickled jalapenos. Just two left on the plant. sad.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at October 02, 2022 06:04 PM (Y+l9t)

219 That's the mother lode of sausage recipes.

Posted by: Comrade flounder, Wrecker, Hoarder, Saboteur at October 02, 2022 06:05 PM (yHsuS)

220 Is that what I think it is in the jar?

Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 06:03 PM (EE7s+)

What do you think it is?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 06:06 PM (XIJ/X)

221 I like my fish mostly plain, a sprinkle of seasoned salt before I cook them, a little lemon maybe.

Posted by: dartist at October 02, 2022 06:07 PM (RxTXB)

222 133 Lemon is/was used to eliminate fishy odors. Lemon pepper combo actually works for some fish that are simply very bland otherwise--cod for example.
Posted by: whig at October 02, 2022 04:51 PM (CXr4y)


Very plausible. My view is that if you have fish with fishy odors, throw it away, eat something else, and shop at a better (or more Asian) place for your fish next time.

Your point about cod is interesting. I kind of see the point, but I like cod with just salt and pepper. I think there's something special there, so I wouldn't call it bland, but it would be really easy to block out with lemon.

Posted by: Splunge at October 02, 2022 06:08 PM (cm/80)

223 Have been picking up wine with Halloween theme labels for this month. Drinking Petite Petite, a Petite Syrah with a circus theme label

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 06:08 PM (xhxe8)

224
I don't think I've ever come across farm raised salmon. But I read a while back that Ian Anderson of 'Jethro Tull' fame when retired opened up a salmon raising farm in Nova Scotia. So I'd probably give it a chance.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at October 02, 2022 06:08 PM (y3pKJ)

225
Speaking of Lox...

UC Berkeley, the place where stupid kids go to get stupider, just created new fake "safe spaces," this time they're "Jew Free Zones." Really.

Posted by: Soothsayer, the #1 most trusted name in news at October 02, 2022 06:09 PM (kiJ/2)

226 224
I don't think I've ever come across farm raised salmon. But I read a while back that Ian Anderson of 'Jethro Tull' fame when retired opened up a salmon raising farm in Nova Scotia. So I'd probably give it a chance.
Posted by: Divide by Zero at October 02, 2022 06:08 PM (y3pKJ)


I'd be more willing to give it a chance if they did not dye it to look like wild salmon.

Posted by: Splunge at October 02, 2022 06:09 PM (cm/80)

227 Reminds me of a Carol Burnett Harvey Kerman skit.

Eat it, it doesn’t taste fishy at all.

You’re right! It doesn’t taste fishy!

Of course not, you idiot, it’s a veal cutlet!

Posted by: Duke Lowell at October 02, 2022 06:10 PM (u73oe)

228 I haven't had a good bagel with lox and cream cheese and red onion in almost 40 years. What I wouldn't give for one right now!

When I was in Sweden, I tried to make bagels, since they don't have them there (at least, not in the previous century). Epic failure. I also tried to make English muffins. Also epic failure.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:13 PM (Mzdiz)

229 I'd be more willing to give it a chance if they did not dye it to look like wild salmon.

Posted by: Splunge at October 02, 2022 06:09 PM (cm/80)

I thought they fed them food pellets with carotene in them.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 06:13 PM (XIJ/X)

230 Make your own lox CBD! I started buying sockeye salmon, mixing 2/3 cup Diamond Crystal salt, 1/3 cup sugar and curing it myself. You need a sharp knife. (It's actually the Norwegian gravlax)

Posted by: jeff at October 02, 2022 06:14 PM (pvt9V)

231 223 Have been picking up wine with Halloween theme labels for this month. Drinking Petite Petite, a Petite Syrah with a circus theme label
Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 06:08 PM (xhxe

One of my favorite Cabernets is called 'Freak Show', out of a little winery near Lodi...

Posted by: Romeo13 at October 02, 2022 06:15 PM (oHd/0)

232 Here I picture a guy in a straw hat, piece of long grass in teeth holding a long fish net watching over his salmon flock

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 06:15 PM (xhxe8)

233 With inflation, that's turned into a loxury

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at October 02, 2022 06:16 PM (aJ/fS)

234 Simmering a gallon of marinara for canning tonight. Then we'll do 7 quarts of beef stew.

I fucking love canning.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:16 PM (Mzdiz)

235 Make your own lox CBD! ... (It's actually the Norwegian gravlax)

Posted by: jeff at October 02, 2022 06:14 PM (pvt9V)

I have made that! It's easy and tastes great. But true lox is a bit different.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 06:16 PM (XIJ/X)

236 232 Here I picture a guy in a straw hat, piece of long grass in teeth holding a long fish net watching over his salmon flock
Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 06:15 PM (xhxe

Hmmmm... what kind of doggy is going to look after THAT 'flock' though.

Posted by: Romeo13 at October 02, 2022 06:16 PM (oHd/0)

237 225
Speaking of Lox...

UC Berkeley, the place where stupid kids go to get stupider, just created new fake "safe spaces," this time they're "Jew Free Zones." Really.

Posted by: Soothsayer, the #1 most trusted name in news at October 02, 2022 06:09 PM (kiJ/2)
----
I bet that was instigated by muslim students.

Posted by: Ciampino is pro Israel at October 02, 2022 06:17 PM (qfLjt)

238 It stopped raining here. FINALLY !

Posted by: JT at October 02, 2022 06:18 PM (T4tVD)

239 I bet that was instigated by muslim students.

Posted by: Ciampino is pro Israel at October 02, 2022 06:17 PM (qfLjt)

I think it was "Law Students For Justice In Palestine," or some such nonsense. And I'll bet only one or two are Muslim.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 06:18 PM (XIJ/X)

240 (It's actually the Norwegian gravlax)

Posted by: jeff at October 02, 2

You can't even compare gravlax to lox, which is smoked. Gravlax isn't tasty IMHO. And I've made it for the Swede.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:18 PM (Mzdiz)

241 UC Berkeley, the place where stupid kids go to get stupider, just created new fake "safe spaces," this time they're "Jew Free Zones." Really.

----------

Ja, Judenfrei ist making ze comeback.

Read my book!

Posted by: A. Schicklgruber at October 02, 2022 06:19 PM (7t4fv)

242 I fucking love canning.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:16 PM (Mzdiz)

Same here.

Posted by: Comrade flounder, Wrecker, Hoarder, Saboteur at October 02, 2022 06:19 PM (yHsuS)

243 Romeo13, Weasel gave me my first ever bottle of Freak Show. You are right it is very drinkable. I have been drinking Alexander Valley lately.

Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 06:19 PM (EE7s+)

244
Here I picture a guy in a straw hat, piece of long grass in teeth holding a long fish net watching over his salmon flock

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 06:15 PM


I picture Ian Anderson, flute held to lips, one leg crossed at knee height, serenading the salmon. Hunter Biden could probably explain it better than I can.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at October 02, 2022 06:20 PM (y3pKJ)

245 Oh forgot to mention my made this evening is venison chili. The venison was canned by Mrs. E from a deer she killed.

Posted by: Eromero at October 02, 2022 06:20 PM (0OP+5)

246 242 I fucking love canning.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:16 PM (Mzdiz)

------------

Sexually?

Heh.

How you doin'?

Posted by: Bob Filner, Graduate, Encounter Groups of Cleveland at October 02, 2022 06:21 PM (7t4fv)

247 Just had to get something out of truck, raining all day still.

But while I'm having shoo-fly pie take a look
https://tinyurl.com/bdcub5x6
20 Tweeds from Bad Blue

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 06:23 PM (xhxe8)

248 The venison was canned by Mrs. E from a deer she killed.
Posted by: Eromero at October 02, 2022 06:20 PM (0OP+5)

——————

Ok, you win.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at October 02, 2022 06:23 PM (u73oe)

249 Oh forgot to mention my made this evening is venison chili. The venison was canned by Mrs. E from a deer she killed.

Posted by: Eromero at October 02, 2022 06:20 PM (0OP+5)

Nice!

Posted by: Comrade flounder, Wrecker, Hoarder, Saboteur at October 02, 2022 06:23 PM (yHsuS)

250 234 Simmering a gallon of marinara for canning tonight. Then we'll do 7 quarts of beef stew.

I fucking love canning.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:16 PM (Mzdiz)
----
This is for you
https://is.gd/GIGbiS

Posted by: Ciampino - canning is hard work at October 02, 2022 06:24 PM (qfLjt)

251 Thanks for the link to the sausage recipes. I inherited my grandmother's grinder and it is on my bucket list to try to make my own sausage.

My Dad's cousin actually ran a butcher shop in Ft. Laramie and he made a red sausage that we always called "Ft. Laramie sausage" but I would love to recreate. After the cousin died the family kept the butcher shop but the sausage recipe was not the same and not as good.

Posted by: Iris at October 02, 2022 06:26 PM (foa6+)

252 Eromero, not only killed it but everything else that goes along with harvesting the meat.

Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 06:27 PM (EE7s+)

253 Right, Ben Had. I just stand there ant tug on her cape while she slings the knife. SWIDT?

Posted by: Eromero at October 02, 2022 06:29 PM (0OP+5)

254 I fucking love canning.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:16 PM (Mzdiz)

Same here.

Posted by: Comrade flounder, Wrecker, Hoarder, Saboteur at October 02, 2022 06:19 PM (yHsuS)

Maybe CBD would do a food preserving thread next Sunday so we can all exchange tips!

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:30 PM (Mzdiz)

255
Ja, Judenfrei ist making ze comeback.

Read my book!

Posted by: A. Schicklgruber at October 02, 2022 06:19 PM



"History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes."
Samuel Clemens aka Mark Twain

/ back to food discussion

Posted by: Divide by Zero at October 02, 2022 06:32 PM (y3pKJ)

256 I recently tried Cointreau, which I enjoyed. It's nice just to sip it as an aperitif or add a few drops to black coffee. (It helps to REALLY like orange.) Today I picked up a bottle of Pierre Ferrand Dry Orange Curacao, supposedly based on an old-style triple sec recipe. Not as sweet as Cointreau but very tasty. I think I prefer it to Cointreau.

It got me wondering about limoncello. Never tried it but I am a total lemon freak so it's probably worth a go.

Any thoughts on a good brand?

Posted by: JTB at October 02, 2022 06:32 PM (7EjX1)

257 Oh forgot to mention my made this evening is venison chili. The venison was canned by Mrs. E from a deer she killed.

Posted by: Eromero at October 02, 2022 06:20 PM (0OP+5)

Our neighbor hunts on our property every year. He bagged three deer last year but we never got any venison he promised. I hope that oversight is taken care of this year. Because we're gonna can the fuck out of it.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:32 PM (Mzdiz)

258 l'shanah tovah 5783

I like my lox & bagel loaded with cream cheese, tomato slices, red onion and capers, downed with a huge glass of orange juice.

Posted by: go get your fuckin shine box at October 02, 2022 06:32 PM (WusEB)

259 Skip - If you have a ShopRite nearby, they carry Atlantic as well as Norwegian.

Posted by: IrishEi at October 02, 2022 06:33 PM (3ImbR)

260 Well, I think I got the Seth Thomas mantel clock working again. Grandma gave it to us when we moved here in 75. After is stopped when mom died, dad never wound it up. That was is 96. I was winding just the clock part, no bells. I wound all today and it seems to be working.

Posted by: Infidel at October 02, 2022 06:34 PM (Ur3ox)

261 254
Maybe CBD would do a food preserving thread next Sunday so we can all exchange tips!

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:30 PM (Mzdiz)
----
I imagine a meme showing a side of beef being lowered into a vat of creosote.

Posted by: Ciampino - All your Lox are belong to us at October 02, 2022 06:34 PM (qfLjt)

262
I wound up punting on a pork shoulder roast and cooked it for 3 hours at 275F in a covered casserole with potatoes, carrots, onions and covered with sauerkraut, and it was wonderful.
Even the drippings gravy and potatoes were wonderful

I have instructions on how to do a pork roast but I don't think I care any more. Even three days later the left overs are fabulous.
Posted by: Kindltot at October 02, 2022 04:08 PM (xhaym)

That sounds really good. The only time I made a pork shoulder I made it with pepperoncini and it was not good. Just seemed fatty.

Posted by: Iris at October 02, 2022 06:34 PM (foa6+)

263 Maybe CBD would do a food preserving thread next Sunday so we can all exchange tips!

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:30 PM (Mzdiz)

I am limited on tips.

Soups can well as does meat sauce for spaghetti, chili, chili verde. I've added dried beans to ham and bean soup (don't use the beans already cooked) before pressure canning and it turns out well (firm, not mushy beans).

Canned venison is best venison (to my taste) other than jerky and sausages.

Trim the ends on pickling cucumbers, and use minimal time boiling for crisper pickles.

Peach jam is the tits.

Posted by: Comrade flounder, Wrecker, Hoarder, Saboteur at October 02, 2022 06:35 PM (yHsuS)

264 Your point about cod is interesting. I kind of see the point, but I like cod with just salt and pepper. I think there's something special there, so I wouldn't call it bland, but it would be really easy to block out with lemon.

Posted by: Splunge
----------------------
The fishy smell often happens when the fish is flash frozen on boats and it depends on the type of fish. Putting lemon juice on top of cooked fish is egregious--using it to cook as a flavor works depending on the fish. The citric acid in lemon can also act as a tenderizer when cooking as some fishes like haddock and cod can be a bit stringy if frozen. Malt vinegar on batter dipped fish though does help make the flavor more complex than simply tasting the batter. Lemon butter also works on really flaky and tender fish like Flounder.

Posted by: whig at October 02, 2022 06:35 PM (CXr4y)

265 229 I'd be more willing to give it a chance if they did not dye it to look like wild salmon.

Posted by: Splunge at October 02, 2022 06:09 PM (cm/80)

I thought they fed them food pellets with carotene in them.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 06:13 PM (XIJ/X)


I believe you are correct. I plead guilty to hyperbole.

Posted by: Splunge at October 02, 2022 06:35 PM (cm/80)

266 It got me wondering about limoncello. Never tried it but I am a total lemon freak so it's probably worth a go.

Any thoughts on a good brand?

Posted by: JTB at October 02, 2022 06:32 PM (7EjX1)

I became limoncello-curious in 2004. Turns out that Italian housewives make their own. Look on the youtube for recipes.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:35 PM (Mzdiz)

267 opps, wrong thread. Sorry.

Posted by: Infidel at October 02, 2022 06:36 PM (Ur3ox)

268 I recently tried Cointreau

Posted by: JTB at October 02, 2022 06:32 PM (7EjX1)

Decent in margarita recipes, too.

Posted by: Comrade flounder, Wrecker, Hoarder, Saboteur at October 02, 2022 06:36 PM (yHsuS)

269 264 The fishy smell often happens when the fish is flash frozen on boats and it depends on the type of fish. Posted by: whig at October 02, 2022 06:35 PM (CXr4y)

Fair enough. My usual resort in such cases would be a salt water soak (just a minute or two, rinse and repeat as necessary), which seems to work really well to draw out badness.

Posted by: Splunge at October 02, 2022 06:36 PM (cm/80)

270 No don't go to ShopRite, Giant mostly but should see what Wegmans has as it's close too

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 06:37 PM (xhxe8)

271 Tomato shouldn't even be in the same room as a bagel with lox.

Just. No.

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 06:37 PM (U2p+3)

272 Today I picked up a bottle of Pierre Ferrand Dry Orange Curacao, supposedly based on an old-style triple sec recipe. Not as sweet as Cointreau but very tasty. I think I prefer it to Cointreau.

Posted by: JTB at October 02, 2022 06:32 PM (7EjX1)

I have tried that brand, and I liked it. I also use Giffard, which I prefer.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 06:38 PM (XIJ/X)

273 271 Tomato shouldn't even be in the same room as a bagel with lox.

Just. No.
Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 06:37 PM (U2p+3)


Right you are. There needs to be a special room where people can eat that, and drink abominations like cucumber in gin.

Posted by: Splunge at October 02, 2022 06:39 PM (cm/80)

274 JTB, Pallini is the best for Lemoncello and also Peachello, an amazing white peach drink. I also cook pork in the peachello.

You can make your own lemoncello. It's easy peasey.

Posted by: Ben Had at October 02, 2022 06:39 PM (EE7s+)

275 Maybe CBD would do a food preserving thread next Sunday so we can all exchange tips!

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:30 PM (Mzdiz)

I know very little about the topic!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 06:39 PM (XIJ/X)

276 Why would you put cucumbers in gin?

Posted by: Skip at October 02, 2022 06:40 PM (xhxe8)

277 This is for you
https://is.gd/GIGbiS

Posted by: Ciampino - canning is hard work at October 02, 2022 06:24 PM (qfLjt)

LOL!

Yes, canning is hard work and takes a long time. Our canning hours usually run from 11 or 12 at night until 5 AM, depending on whether we're canning meat (which takes a lot longer, as you know).

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:40 PM (Mzdiz)

278 No red onion...on anything.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at October 02, 2022 06:40 PM (Xrfse)

279 A frog I knew kept a bottle of limoncello in his freezer and at the end of the day we always did a couple of shots ice cold with beer chasers.

Tastes like a lemon moonshine and gets you a buzz right quick.

Oh look! Martini time! One olive only please.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at October 02, 2022 06:41 PM (R/m4+)

280 About Curacao...I only buy the ones that are 40% alcohol. The lower alcohol versions are too sweet for my palate.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 06:41 PM (XIJ/X)

281 Thanks for another great thread. Dinner was really good (although the youngest complained we went back to Sunday stir fry, and not Sunday burgers/steak, even as he cleaned his plate).

Now to clean up, get a bubble bath, and get ready for the learning week. See everyone next week!

Posted by: Nova local at October 02, 2022 06:43 PM (exHjb)

282 There's a really nice cucumber gin (Hendrick's); cucumber is a nice garnish for that.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at October 02, 2022 06:44 PM (KFhLj)

283 I know very little about the topic!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 06:39 PM (XIJ/X)

Maybe lead with something and turn the Horde loose. I'll see if I can find a good video as an intro.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:45 PM (Mzdiz)

284 There's a really nice cucumber gin (Hendrick's); cucumber is a nice garnish for that.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at October 02, 2022 06:44 PM (KFhLj)

Hendrick's is glorious. Delicate...subtle...pretty much a perfect gin for martinis.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 06:46 PM (XIJ/X)

285 Hamburgers for dinner. Yum.

Posted by: JuJuBee, fact checker hammered by events at October 02, 2022 06:46 PM (e0jF6)

286 I'd help my grandma can many years ago. I've done it off and on for years, but should make a concerted effort to do it regularly.

Posted by: Sarah, Horde blog skank at October 02, 2022 06:46 PM (N30d6)

287 Forgot one other thing, thought I had some frozen roasted Hatch chilis in the freezer, no joy. So I chopped up a handful of pickled nopalitos in my chili this evening. Good sub.

Posted by: Eromero at October 02, 2022 06:48 PM (0OP+5)

288 Hendrick's is glorious. Delicate...subtle...pretty much a perfect gin for martinis.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 06:46 PM (XIJ/X)

Concur. A place near me used to make a Cuetini.

A martini with Hendrick's and a slice of cucumber for garnish.

Light and tasty.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at October 02, 2022 06:48 PM (R/m4+)

289 I'd help my grandma can many years ago. I've done it off and on for years, but should make a concerted effort to do it regularly.

Posted by: Sarah, Horde blog skank at October 02, 2022 06:46 PM (N30d6)

It's a good feeling putting away a flat of protein rich foods or something yummy that you can pull from for a long time.

Posted by: Comrade flounder, Wrecker, Hoarder, Saboteur at October 02, 2022 06:49 PM (yHsuS)

290 Turns out that Italian housewives make their own. Look on the youtube for recipes.
----
I used to make it years ago and it's pretty much lemon zest, no white, soaked in vodka or everclear for a few weeks and mixed with sugar water and let it sit in a dark pantry a few more weeks. I forgot about a batch that sat in the pantry for over 100 days and the family went nuts over it.

Posted by: dartist at October 02, 2022 06:50 PM (RxTXB)

291 In before gunz!

Nothing beats a toasted salt bagel with schmear. But lox and capers are also delish.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Live! from the Dungeon of Discord at October 02, 2022 06:51 PM (Dc2NZ)

292 Hendrick's is glorious. Delicate...subtle...pretty much a perfect gin for martinis.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 06:46 PM (XIJ/X)

Concur. A place near me used to make a Cuetini.

A martini with Hendrick's and a slice of cucumber for garnish.

Light and tasty.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at October 02, 2022 06:48 PM


Hmmm. Haven't made a martini with Hendricks. Must try that one of these days.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at October 02, 2022 06:51 PM (Wnv9h)

293 turn the Horde loose.
Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:45 PM


What could go wrong?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at October 02, 2022 06:51 PM (a3Q+t)

294 I've just read tragic news: Christina Ricci apparently had breast reduction surgery.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at October 02, 2022 06:51 PM (KFhLj)

295 Thanks to Ben Had and CBD and all for the limoncello and other Curacao advice. I'm enjoying the flavors and since I only sip less than an ounce at a time (no cocktails) a bottle lasts for quite a while.

Posted by: JTB at October 02, 2022 06:52 PM (7EjX1)

296 I would take you up on that, Skip. I'm not much if a cook but I can bake.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at October 02, 2022 06:52 PM (uz3Px)

297 Also, that was some ti-i-i-i-i-i-ight shelving, CBD! Way to piss off your boss.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Live! from the Dungeon of Discord at October 02, 2022 06:53 PM (Dc2NZ)

298 Well folks, it's almost that time! Thanks for reading and commenting and playing nice.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 02, 2022 06:54 PM (XIJ/X)

299 l'shanah tovah 5783

I like my lox & bagel loaded with cream cheese, tomato slices, red onion and capers, downed with a huge glass of orange juice.

Posted by: go get your fuckin shine box at October 02, 2022 06:32 PM (WusEB)


That's our family favorite as well, except we opt for strong black coffee instead of the juice.

Posted by: HTL at October 02, 2022 06:56 PM (M/NNn)

300 Thanks for the great thread, CBD!

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 02, 2022 06:57 PM (U2p+3)

301 CBD, Thanks for such a helpful thread today. The food thread is always fun but today's was especially informative.

Posted by: JTB at October 02, 2022 06:59 PM (7EjX1)

302 You know you can sous vide lemoncello. Not even kidding...

Posted by: WeeKreekFarmGirl at October 02, 2022 07:01 PM (k/+fq)

303 bang. is nude.
https://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=401207

Posted by: BifBewalski at October 02, 2022 07:01 PM (3CCua)

304 I have never heard of such a thing as canned venison.

Cooked, jerked, smoked, frozen, never canned.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at October 02, 2022 07:02 PM (z+OQR)

305 It got me wondering about limoncello. Never tried it but I am a total lemon freak so it's probably worth a go.

Any thoughts on a good brand?
Posted by: JTB at October 02, 2022 06:32 PM (7EjX1)


My wife and I are partial to the Caravella brand. They also make an Orangecello that's pretty interesting.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at October 02, 2022 07:06 PM (ZSK0i)

306 Maybe CBD would do a food preserving thread next Sunday so we can all exchange tips!
Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:30 PM (Mzdiz)


I am drying prunes right now, I bought a half box at the county flea market.
Tomorrow when they get half dry I will dry what I hope is the last batch of pole beans, and then I can get to drying chilies.

Next week is pressing and canning grape juice.

Posted by: Kindltot at October 02, 2022 07:09 PM (xhaym)

307 turn the Horde loose.
Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 06:45 PM

What could go wrong?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at October 02, 2022 06:51 PM (a3Q+t)

We could all go pantless. But of course, that's nothing new.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at October 02, 2022 07:24 PM (Mzdiz)

308 A thickened (cornstarch or flour with water) to make gravy might be in the jar??

Posted by: Lola at October 03, 2022 02:40 AM (NIYa7)

309
Making money online is more than $15k just by doing simple work from home. I received $18376 last month. It's an easy and simple job to do and its earnings are much better than regular office jobs and even a little child can do this and earn money. Everybody must try this job by just use the info on this page..... www.worksful.com

Posted by: Katie Garrison at October 03, 2022 03:21 AM (6sUY/)

310 A religion that screams "Fasting" while they stuff their faces is not to be trusted.

Posted by: fisht at October 03, 2022 10:34 AM (ZRarh)

311 I am making $50 an hour working from home. I never imagined that it was honest to goodness yet my closest companion is earning $11,000 a month by working on a laptop, that was truly astounding for me, she prescribed for me to attempt it simply.
Everybody must try this job now by just using this.. www.Profit97.com

Posted by: www.Profit97.Com at October 03, 2022 02:51 PM (xNK28)

312 Hi I аm so glad I found your website, I reallʏ foᥙnd you by error, while I was browsіng on Bing for something
else, Regardless Ι am here now and wⲟuld just like to saу thanks for a fantastic post and
a all round entertaining bⅼog (I also love the themе/design), I
don’t have time to brߋwѕe it all at the minute but I have book-marked
it and also included your RSS feedѕ, so when I havе time I wіll
be bacк to read much more, Please do keep up the awesome work.

Posted by: trainee at October 06, 2022 06:18 PM (Qnac4)

(Jump to top of page)






Processing 0.03, elapsed 0.0413 seconds.
15 queries taking 0.0149 seconds, 321 records returned.
Page size 168 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.8 beta.



MuNuvians
MeeNuvians
Polls! Polls! Polls!
Frequently Asked Questions
The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Top Top Tens
Greatest Hitjobs

The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon
A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates
Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny
More Margaret Cho Abuse
Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat