And After Trump...?

Unlike some, I object to Trump on a personal level -- he is in fact a conman, and his lifelong liberal orientation guarantees he will always bow to liberal pressure and take the liberal path of least resistance -- but I do not object to aspects of Trumpism, and in fact support some of them.

Whoever wins this nomination -- and it will likely be Trump -- it seems probable that other candidates for all levels of office will realize I can do that too and run on a platform that promises the eternal establishment class less and promises the working class -- apparently 53% of the GOP, I think I just read -- a great deal more.

Reihan Salem has good piece about what the GOP can do if it actually intends to learn something for once. I still object to his plan of Welfare for Working People -- and let's face it, that's what it is -- not because I object to his goals, but because Welfare for Working People is the nose inside the tent. Once you've conceded this basic notion, that just about everyone is entitled to some government Welfare, how do you ever make some kind of general objection to more Welfare, or a Nixonian Minimum Basic (Government-Paid) Salary?

Still, most ideas here are worth looking into. I wouldn't say that the GOP should abandon all tax-cutting for upper-income workers. Rather, I'd say this should move to the end of the batting order. This class has had enough favors done for it by the GOP; it can wait while favors are done for other groups. In addition, the "back of the line" idea should incentivize them to get workin' on initiatives that other classes seek, so that their at-bat in the line-up will arrive more expeditiously.

He has a line here, "the delusions of the donor class," which I like a lot. Here he explains how we got to this place:

More than anything else, Trump has demonstrated that white working-class voters have minds of their own. They will not simply line up behind the candidates selected for them by hedge-funders and industrialists during the "invisible primary." If we define working-class voters as those without a college degree, Ronald Brownstein of the Atlantic estimates that this bloc represents 53 percent of Republicans, split almost evenly between those who are conservative Christians and those who are not. The Pew Research Center reports that in 2012, 53 percent of Republicans were part of families that earned less than $75,000 a year. These groups, which tend to overlap, are Donald Trump's base. Ever since the Nixon era, Republicans have relied on the white working class to achieve political victories. Now, it has revolted against the GOP elite.
Why wouldn't they be furious? The Republican failure to defend the interests of working-class voters, and to speak to their hopes and fears, has made Trump's authoritarianism dangerously alluring. Trump recognized that elite Republicans--a group rooted in affluent coastal metropolises and dominated by members of the credentialed upper middle class, which has shielded itself from the social and economic devastation that has wreaked such havoc in less-privileged corners of the country--often fall prey to wishful thinking about the rank-and-file voters who actually elect GOP candidates. They imagine that working- and middle-class conservatives are passionately devoted to the things they care about--tax cuts and entitlement reform--when these voters are far more passionate about other issues: economic nationalism, limits on less-skilled immigration, and minimum-wage hikes.
Having recognized this chasm separating the Republican donor class from the grassroots, Trump has exploited it brilliantly. He has defended entitlement programs, and he has bashed bankers. He has defied the elite consensus on trade and immigration. He is channeling the Republican id, and in doing so he may have already dashed conservative hopes of winning the White House. Why can't his GOP opponents convince Republican voters that they would do a far better job than Trump of defending middle-class economic interests? The answer is that they are trapped by the delusions of the donor class, and they can't break free.

I mentioned in an earlier post that there are two sorts of ruling classes:

1. Ruling classes which are adroit at repositioning themselves and co-opting new political movements which might be threatening to them, but which could be made allies with the right level of compromise and negotiation,

and:

2. Former ruling classes which have been deposed completely.

The delusion of the donor class is that there is a third type or ruling class:

3. A Ruling Class which gives the finger to new political movements which are a threat to it, does not attempt to co-opt them through compromise and give-and-take, but simply Wins over them because they're so obviously Fabulous, Rich, Smart, and Appealing.

That sort of ruling class does not exist, except in the imaginations of the ruling class itself. In fact, that sort of thinking, this belief in a Type 3 ruling class, is an accelerant for the fire that will consume a ruling class and turn it into a Type 2 Former Ruling Class.

The GOP ruling class has had years and years to slowly accommodate itself with actual reality, and has skillfully avoided every opportunity to do so. There were a series of revolts starting from 2006 over the issue of amnesty. The ruling class studiously learned nothing.

Like liberals -- whom they closely resemble, because they are, culturally and spiritually, liberals -- each of their defeats and disasters is excused away.

In fact, they praise themselves for each defeat and disaster. Each of their defeats is a moral victory, each of their disasters is just an opportunity for enlightened renewal.

For years, blogs and talk radio have been absolutely on fire with anger about the betrayals and deceptions of the current bunch in Congress. The ruling class elegantly learned nothing.

David Brat deposed the House Majority Leader, Eric Cantor. If the warning lights in the GOP cockpit weren't already blinking like a short-circuiting Christmas tree, this certainly should have told them that something was amiss.

But the ruling class, gracefully, learned nothing at all.

A presidential election is a bad time for trying to teach lessons to such brilliantly impervious students as these. Nevertheless, many feel as if they have no other option remaining to them.

They have chosen the form of their destructor, and that form is Marco Rubio.

The Suicide of the GOP Establishment
Despite the Trump juggernaut, they refuse to rethink Bushism in their support for Rubio
by Laura Ingraham
Here is something to think about as we approach Super Tuesday.
If Marco Rubio becomes president, we can expect:

1.) That he will work with Democrats and the GOP leadership in Congress to pass something that looks like the Gang of Eight amnesty bill.
2.) That he will urge Congress to pass any trade agreements that Obama has signed.
3.) That he will send significant numbers of U.S. troops to the Middle East.
4.) That his foreign policy will be developed by many of the same people who advised George W. Bush.
5.) That his economic policy will reflect the views of those who were in power when the United States was hit by the economic crisis of 2008.
Now, I don't think any of these points are truly controversial. Somewhere, there may be naive people who actually believe that Rubio will put border enforcement first. But all sophisticated analysts of politics -- including the folks at National Review -- certainly expect that a President Rubio will support the same type of amnesty that was supported by Sen. Rubio. And on the other issues, Rubio has not even pretended that he will break with the Obama/Bush trade policy, the Bush foreign policy, or the Bush economic policy.
For almost eight years, it has been increasingly clear that many, many Republicans -- probably a majority of the party -- do not agree with any of the five principles outlined above. Time and time again, grassroots and movement conservatives have expressed their opposition to all five of the key planks in Rubio's platform. These Republicans do not support the Gang of Eight bill. They do not support Obama’s trade deals. They do not want to spend huge amounts of blood and treasure again in the Middle East. And they most certainly do not want the economy to look like it did in the fall of 2008.

Some of Marco's latest endorsements are bound to help Trump more than him
These voters have tried, through every means available, to make their opposition felt. They are the reason that Eric Cantor is no longer in the House. They are the reason that the Gang of Eight bill didn't pass. They are the reason that John Boehner is no longer speaker. And they are the reason that Donald Trump and Ted Cruz have dominated the polls for months.
Many people have urged the Rubio donor network, think-tank fellows and media supporters to back off on their policy demands -- to do more than simply acknowledge "the voters are right to be angry."
...
Nevertheless, even today, the Rubio supporters refuse to budge. They could have supported Govs. Scott Walker, Bobby Jindal, or Christie, or Carly Fiorina. Even today they could support Gov. John Kasich or Sen. Ted Cruz. But from the beginning, most of the Rubio supporters have made it clear that they are only willing to support two people: Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio. They have shot down every other candidate who has been offered. And many have publicly and privately threatened to bolt the party and support Hillary Clinton if they don't get their way.
Furthermore, the Rubio supporters have, for the most part, flatly refused even to debate the policy issues at stake here. They will not even discuss changing our trade policy. They make some noises about immigration enforcement, but this is not done in a spirit of compromise, but with the arrogance of those who know that no one really expects them to change their views if they win. For all the complaints about Trump's policy generalities, Establishment GOP types have not even pretended to engage in a serious debate. Their offer is simple: You do as we say, or we will throw the election to Hillary.

I've described this as a political revolution, in that it seems necessary to sweep the old order -- the old personnel out -- so that new people can be swept in.

Given that the old people simply refuse to budge a single inch when half of the party is demanding change -- note, they only get really tough and take an absolutely-no-compromise attitude with other Republicans, especially those they consider to be of a lower class -- I don't know what other option remains. You could keep the same personnel if they were willing to change, or even just debate, the agenda they're pushing. But that they will not do.

Like all highly educated and open-minded people, they absolutely refuse to even consider opposing viewpoints.

There is going to be a major change here. The ruling class could have actually detected this, and attempted to manage the change, to create some kind of hybrid that would satisfy both the old guard and the new upstarts. Instead, they have consistently doubled-down on failure.

Again, like college-educated people do.

So an actual destruction of the old guard it will have to be.

I had hoped, and still hope, that this destruction will be conducted with a guy who is himself smart and adroit, Ted Cruz.

But the old guard has dug its heels in for its Amnesty Fiend Marco Rubio, so that appears less and less likely an outcome.

Vote Rubio, get Trump. And then get Hillary.

That's what they're going to do.

Because they're the #Smart ones, you know.

Posted by: Ace at 03:40 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 1st?

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 03:41 PM (fizMZ)

2 This is a headline on the Boston Herald website - "Amid Trump surge, nearly 20,000 Mass. voters quit Democratic party."

Not a Trump fan, but is this something as Ace would say?

Posted by: GregV61 at March 01, 2016 03:42 PM (6SFoW)

3 Oh Skip...

Posted by: HH at March 01, 2016 03:43 PM (DrCtv)

4 Had no idea how long it was here.
I thought at first I got the Trump phenomenon, but the negatives took over.

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 03:44 PM (fizMZ)

5

I need more coffee for this one.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 01, 2016 03:44 PM (qCMvj)

6 I fee like hoping the GOP will learn from this is wishful thinking.

Posted by: brak at March 01, 2016 03:45 PM (MJuTN)

7 Well, no way in hell I'm going to get the others. Already had a flamethrower used on me by AtC.

Posted by: HH at March 01, 2016 03:45 PM (DrCtv)

8 >>>This is a headline on the Boston Herald website - "Amid Trump surge, nearly 20,000 Mass. voters quit Democratic party."

Not a Trump fan, but is this something as Ace would say?

...

it is something. it is the beginning of a realignment. Trump will in fact attract new people to the GOP. The trouble is, he has made himself absolutely unacceptable to already-here people in the GOP.

I think the losses will exceed the gains.

Bringing people into the GOP is a good, obviously. But you obviously can't go alienating almost all of the college set, either (which is a large part of the GOP).

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 03:46 PM (dciA+)

9 HH I agree, these threads about Trump the fewer the bettr.

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 03:46 PM (fizMZ)

10 part of the Democrats' working class voters are coming to the GOP, and part of the GOP's white collar/college educated voters are going to stop voting, and eventually make peace with a somewhat changed Democrat party.

They will be the "neolibs," and will change the Democrat party a little bit, but not nearly as much as the neocons changed the GOP.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 03:47 PM (dciA+)

11 Well, if all these projections of gloom transpire, Cruz can and should run again in 2020 and maybe then, after 4 years of Hillary, folks would have come to their senses and vote for him.

Posted by: IC at March 01, 2016 03:48 PM (a0IVu)

12 After Trump...I kinda don't care.

I know who are my allies and who are not. May the chips fall where they will.

Posted by: Hawkins Aquinas (new name) at March 01, 2016 03:48 PM (TZYqp)

13 >>>HH I agree, these threads about Trump the fewer the bettr.

i agree if we're talking about keeping the peace but I can't just embargo the biggest stories of the day!

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 03:48 PM (dciA+)

14 chaos.

it's what's for dinner.

Posted by: Joe Mama at March 01, 2016 03:49 PM (NQmg1)

15 Irish Times reports...

The ONLY Goldman Sachs Executive to give money to Donald Trump, is suspended by that company.

He was helping to sell hats saying 'Make Christianity Great Again"...

Wow.... I guess they've picked their Repub... the one who is married to one of their Executives...

Posted by: Don Quixote at March 01, 2016 03:49 PM (RK8AH)

16 Fuck the GOPe.

I've been wavering on Trump, but I have decided I am all in for him. I have been lied to since I first voted. And I'm tired of it.

Trump might end up being horrible. I don't care. I'm done with the Boheners and Ryans and McConnels of the world.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 03:49 PM (0LHZx)

17 So if Hillary/Sanders gets elected...when does Ow my Balls come on tv?

Posted by: 18-1 at March 01, 2016 03:49 PM (5LOno)

18 >>>Irish Times reports...

The ONLY Goldman Sachs Executive to give money to Donald Trump, is suspended by that company.

He was helping to sell hats saying 'Make Christianity Great Again"...

Wow.... I guess they've picked their Repub... the one who is married to one of their Executives...

...

Huge story, HUGE. Enormous.

Obviously Cruz is an establishment sell-out based on this non-story of a Goldman Sachs exec giving to TRUMP and your goofy speculation this means they're totes behind Cruz.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 03:50 PM (dciA+)

19 Trump is an old fashioned snake oil salesman. And the fools like up and wave their money at him.

Posted by: maddogg, now certified infrequently vile at March 01, 2016 03:51 PM (xWW96)

20 Trump is Rodney Dangerfield and Rubio and the rest are Smails. I hope when it all blows up we at least get a nice Journey song to go out with.

Posted by: brak at March 01, 2016 03:51 PM (MJuTN)

21 Election season is so much fun; so much failure.

Posted by: Fritz at March 01, 2016 03:51 PM (UzPAd)

22 I always watch lefty media, which is virtually all of them, but watch how they bend news towards the left. Most now are flag waving for Trump.but the fraud trial is going to hit early summer which might be the time theoretical he could wrap up a nomination. So at that point we have a candidate with a fraud conviction. Which would serve the leftists perfectly as I suspect also by that time a pass on Hildabeast's indictment will be obvious.

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 03:51 PM (fizMZ)

23 Mr. BTEG and I are both college-educated. Mr. BTEG is super intelligent (he's currently taken up robotics as his fun hobby.) But neither of us are part of the elite, perhaps because both of our families came from the working class. Which apparently means we are knuckle-dragging Neanderthals. This pisses me off. I'd like to think someone in the GOP will read this, but I doubt if they're smart enough.

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at March 01, 2016 03:52 PM (FQKBL)

24 19 Trump is an old fashioned snake oil salesman. And the fools like up and wave their money at him.
Posted by: maddogg, now certified infrequently vile at March 01, 2016 03:51 PM (xWW96)

____

You're right. Vote for Mitch McConnell and Co. who send you an email begging for money to **STOP OBAMA'S RADICAL AGENDA** and then vote for every fucking thing Obama wants.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 03:52 PM (0LHZx)

25 Newt Gingrich on Hannity 10 minutes ago: "The establishment no longer has the ability to tell the people what to believe."

I believe in Ted Cruz and am eagerly looking forward to voting for him today. I'm actually voting FOR a candidate instead of AGAINST one for the first time in a long, long time!

Posted by: Just wondering at March 01, 2016 03:52 PM (JNZ92)

26 Trump understood the very fundamental idea that most of the electorate could not give two shits about taxing capital gains, but care a whole hell of a lot about their job being either shipped to China or lost to a foreign worker that we import in.

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2016 03:53 PM (92Dmd)

27 Trump waves his bottle of Make America Great Again around and the rubes are drooling and screaming for the sale. No, don't ask whats in it, but it removes tobacco stains from his white coat.

Posted by: maddogg, now certified infrequently vile at March 01, 2016 03:53 PM (xWW96)

28 pass the popcorn...

Posted by: redc1c4 at March 01, 2016 03:53 PM (ISW4H)

29 No one electable is offering to just leave us alone.

LiFB

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at March 01, 2016 03:53 PM (evdj2)

30 All I am reading are articles about how bad a Trump nomination/presidency will be.

If no one thinks this is good, why is he winning so big?

Posted by: ALH at March 01, 2016 03:54 PM (uLuPn)

31 I honestly think Trump has forever changed the policies of immigration regardless of who actually wins.

And I also think that Trump is the most likely to have his "only Nixon can go to China" moment on this issue if he actually were to become President whereas the other candidates could not sell out on it.

Posted by: Branson at March 01, 2016 03:54 PM (st1SS)

32 4 years of Hildabeast will change the Supreme Court for my lifetime as she will put in as many 40 year old Bolshavik's as it can take.

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 03:54 PM (fizMZ)

33 Why hasn't Cruz co-opted the title from that brilliant sit-com:
Better Off Ted"?

Posted by: Joe Mama at March 01, 2016 03:54 PM (NQmg1)

34 Trump gets a pass for everything.
I better go vote for Cruz!

Later!!

Posted by: Carol at March 01, 2016 03:55 PM (sj3Ax)

35 26 Trump understood the very fundamental idea that most of the electorate could not give two shits about taxing capital gains, but care a whole hell of a lot about their job being either shipped to China or lost to a foreign worker that we import in.

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2016 03:53 PM (92Dmd)

_______

It's almost as if he hasn't been brainwashed by GOPe consultants over the past 25 years or something.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 03:55 PM (0LHZx)

36 Vote Rubio, get Trump. And then get Hillary thrown in prison where she belongs.

#FTFY!

Posted by: redc1c4 at March 01, 2016 03:55 PM (ISW4H)

37 This primary has illuminated exactly who you can trust in the conservative movement.

Laura - Forever
Faux News Channel - Never

Posted by: Valiant at March 01, 2016 03:55 PM (2bqlb)

38 My cat could beat the Hildebeast.

Posted by: Soona at March 01, 2016 03:55 PM (Fmupd)

39 5.) That his economic policy will reflect the views of those who were in power when the United States was hit by the economic crisis of 2008.

... I've heard this argument for 8 years now.

Recovery Summer I, II, III, IV, V and VI are now history and Citi has forecast a recession for this year. The new polices aren't working much better than those guys back in 2008.

Obama has been a poor caretaker, and no where near a leader.

Posted by: David Stockman at March 01, 2016 03:56 PM (e8kgV)

40 31 I honestly think Trump has forever changed the policies of immigration regardless of who actually wins.

Posted by: Branson at March 01, 2016 03:54 PM (st1SS)

____

If Hillary wins, the MSM and GOPe will spin it as "see America loves immigrants and has rejected policies of hate". In a way he will have made amnesty a lot easier since him losing is a green light for the GOPe to go full amnesty.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 03:56 PM (0LHZx)

41 Posted by: maddogg, now certified infrequently vile at March 01, 2016 03:53 PM (xWW96)

Um. The GOPe has had EIGHT years to come up with a solid platform. Even if you are right, it's the GOPs own fault. Trump should not have had ANY room to maneuver to begin with, let alone after 8 months of campaigning.

The GOP was warned - more than once.

Posted by: First-Rate Political Hack at March 01, 2016 03:56 PM (dH97I)

42 The ruling class within the GOP had thought they had coopted and neutered the TEA party folks.

The Folks who were fed up with the status quo where they were lied to...

What happened was they were able to coopt the 'Leaders' of the movement...

Problem is, those so called Leaders, were chosen by the MSM as spokesmen for the movement.... and they then used Alinsky tactics to make them look like rubes... and thus diminish the threat from outside the beltway.

However... that anger is still out there....

I'd love to see a Poll of how many Trump supporters were the ones who used to go to TEA party rallies....

Posted by: Don Quixote at March 01, 2016 03:56 PM (RK8AH)

43 >>>All I am reading are articles about how bad a Trump nomination/presidency will be.

If no one thinks this is good, why is he winning so big?

...

because the media, including the conservative media, is not populated by the sons and daughters of the working class, but the sons and daughters of the upper middle class.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 03:56 PM (dciA+)

44 -- Like liberals -- whom they closely resemble, because they are, culturally and spiritually, liberals --

In many ways, yes...but there's nothing truly liberal about a contemporary "liberal." They are, to a man, elitists and would-be dictators, regardless of their overt reasons for wanting power.

If there's a significant difference between Democrat "liberals" and GOP "liberals," it would be the excuses they use for their betrayals of those they promise to "help."

Posted by: Francis W. Porretto at March 01, 2016 03:56 PM (d2g9U)

45 So: The GOPe elite: Judge Smails.
Donald Trump: Al Czervik.

Ah, so desu ka!

Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at March 01, 2016 03:56 PM (XdbLA)

46 38
My BAT could beat the Hildebeast.

Posted by: Soona (channeling Micky Mantle) at March 01, 2016 03:55 PM (Fmupd)

FTFY

Posted by: Joe Mama at March 01, 2016 03:57 PM (NQmg1)

47 I'm as sick of the smart elite commentators like Laura Ingraham as I am of the political elite. They all talk and bitch and then go have cocktails together.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 01, 2016 03:57 PM (/tuJf)

48 jesus h pogo stick jumping christ! will this place ever get off this trump shit? he lives rent free around here! damn!

Posted by: chave the hugo at March 01, 2016 03:57 PM (ucDmr)

49 that doesn't mean that Trump is a good candidate.

just that a lot of people sort of can't understand why this low-rent hustler could appeal to anybody.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 03:57 PM (dciA+)

50 is this something as Ace would say?

Barry got 1,900,575 votes in Massachusetts last time.

So 1%.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at March 01, 2016 03:58 PM (evdj2)

51 Of all the anti conservative positions Trump pretends to have, anti free trade is the stupidest. Tariffs are the worst kind of welfare; easy to hide so hard to over turn. Sugar tariffs are a perfect example. They cost every family in America $400 in higher food prices to keep what, 3 wealthy agri business families going? The much better answer, and just as easy a sell, is to kill the EPA and unions. Millions of $20/hr jobs appear like magic.

Posted by: pashmr at March 01, 2016 03:58 PM (3aNC4)

52 "Bringing people into the GOP is a good, obviously. But you obviously can't go alienating almost all of the college set, either (which is a large part of the GOP).

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 03:46 PM (dciA+)"

I do think that once the reality of Hillary settles in, this will calm down a bit. But it's what I'm afraid of as well, though I think it's been inevitable since last summer. Everyone sort of refused to acknowledge what was happening even while it was happening just posting cutesy memes about "Keep Calm it won't be Trump"

Many of these #neverTrump folks, are going to vote for him once their #trumpertantrum is over. There are a lot of people in there that I admire and respected that I think will make good on this, but there are lot of opportunist's who are just as big con men as Trump or perhaps bigger in their. Screaming #neverTrump from their insignificant twitter perches, that will fall in line when/if it starts to look like he might win. A lot of these grifters on our side, are professionally wrong for a living, I don't think they are immune to the preference cascade thing.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at March 01, 2016 03:58 PM (n/ogz)

53 "He is channeling the Republican id, and in doing so he may have already dashed conservative hopes of winning the White House."

That's because the alleged conservatives are hell bent on telling their voters to STFD and STFU. Eventually you lose them.

Just take a look at that alleged conservative Paul Ryan. He now only gives interviews to friendly MSM outlets, refuses to talk to conservative media.

Posted by: Decaf at March 01, 2016 03:58 PM (KAB75)

54 Look at what happened to the Republican Party in Cook County Chicago when Democrats politicians from working class wards took over the local Republican party after the election of Harold Washngton mayor of Chicago in the mid 1980s.
The number of Republicans soared for about two years and then the bottom fell out. The workinh class white Denocrats returned to their old haunts and left the brand so damaged that none of the usual base of dissent to the corrupt Democrat policies found in a large urban area wanted to be identified as Republicans.

Posted by: NC Mountainl Girl at March 01, 2016 03:58 PM (IkvKM)

55 >>>jesus h pogo stick jumping christ! will this place ever get off this trump shit? he lives rent free around here! damn!

"living rent free" = "covering the news"

Pretty sure if I wrote a piece praising trump (and by the way, there actually are positive concessions to trump in this, if you bothered to read, which I know you don't) you wouldn't object to the name "Trump" appearing in an article. You'd be beside yourself with the happiness of validation.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 03:58 PM (dciA+)

56 The moment of truth: We must stop Trump

Wapo Op Ed: Thank God for this brave Harvard SJW leading the confused to the truthiest of truths.

Trump is Hitler.

Finally, to all of you Republicans who have already dropped out, one
more, great act of public service awaits you. As candidates, you pledged
to support whomever the Republican party nominated. It's time to revoke
your pledge. Be bold, stand up and shout that you will not support
Trump if he is your party's nominee. Do it together. Hold one big mother
of a news conference. Endorse Rubio, together. It is time to draw a
bright line, and you are the ones on whom this burden falls. No one else
can do it.

Posted by: Mortimer at March 01, 2016 03:59 PM (VDEzK)

57 I'd love to see a Poll of how many Trump supporters were the ones who used to go to TEA party rallies....

/me raises hand

you can add Resident 3vil to teh count as well.

Posted by: redc1c4 at March 01, 2016 03:59 PM (ISW4H)

58 a lot of people sort of can't understand why this low-rent hustler could appeal to anybody.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 03:57 PM (dciA+)

Low rent, my eye.
Have you seen the rates at Trump Towers?Yuuge!

Posted by: Joe Mama at March 01, 2016 03:59 PM (NQmg1)

59 Nevertheless, even today, the Rubio supporters refuse to budge. They could have supported Govs. Scott Walker, Bobby Jindal, or Christie, or Carly Fiorina. Even today they could support Gov. John Kasich or Sen. Ted Cruz. But from the beginning, most of the Rubio supporters have made it clear that they are only willing to support two people: Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio. They have shot down every other candidate who has been offered. And many have publicly and privately threatened to bolt the party and support Hillary Clinton if they don't get their way.

this is the most stunning of all

look at those stellar candidates

this is the first time I was excited about an election, seeing some of these candidates up there - Walker, Jindal, Cruz, Fiorina

but, they weren't supported

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 01, 2016 03:59 PM (qCMvj)

60 just that a lot of people sort of can't understand why this low-rent hustler could appeal to anybody.

Bingo. Amazing, shocking, and depressing.

Posted by: maddogg, now certified infrequently vile at March 01, 2016 03:59 PM (xWW96)

61 I'd love to see a Poll of how many Trump supporters were the ones who used to go to TEA party rallies....
Posted by: Don Quixote at March 01, 2016 03:56 PM (RK8AH)

Last i Saw it was 50/50

50 Cruz, still wearing the rose glasses.

50 Trump, fucking pissed.

Posted by: cajun caret at March 01, 2016 03:59 PM (QfUjv)

62 If Hillary wins, the MSM and GOPe will spin it as "see America loves immigrants and has rejected policies of hate". In a way he will have made amnesty a lot easier since him losing is a green light for the GOPe to go full amnesty.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo

Maybe, but Romney losing didn't make a very convincing argument for "we need a more liberal Republican nominee".

I really do believe a new GOP is going to emerge that is closer to Ross Perot than Paul Ryan.

Just NOT having a UniParty on immigration and trade is a win in my opinion.

Posted by: Branson at March 01, 2016 03:59 PM (st1SS)

63 I don't want Trump and will vote Cruz. I will vote not-Hillary in the general.

Maybe, just maybe, it the Republican establishment had paid attention to those that elect them over the past 8 years (25?) they would not be having this problem.

Posted by: Chicago Vota at March 01, 2016 03:59 PM (mPQ7K)

64 2006 loss
2008 loss
2010 win
2012 loss
2014 primary (Brat win/Cantor loss)
2014 general

2015 Boehner getting tossed.

They just don't get it.

Posted by: First-Rate Political Hack at March 01, 2016 04:00 PM (dH97I)

65 Here's where it gets uglytown.

Imma go watch some RedLetterMedia stuff.

Posted by: eleven at March 01, 2016 04:00 PM (qUNWi)

66 Jeb Bush = McCarthy

Marco Rubio = Paul Ryan

You don't like their first choice well fuck you here's their second choice and that all you're allowed to pick. I'm sure they only thing they were disappointed in is that they couldn't delay the primaries to properly set it up like they did the House Speaker election.

Posted by: Buzzion at March 01, 2016 04:00 PM (z/Ubi)

67 "that a lot of people sort of can't understand why this low-rent hustler could appeal to anybody."

Which is so frustrating since it's dead simple.

Trump says he'll make it less likely you'll get laid off or be decapitated in a terrorist attack.

The end.

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2016 04:00 PM (92Dmd)

68 some of the people I like hate Trump. all of the shitheels I hate fear him.

Posted by: x at March 01, 2016 04:00 PM (nFwvY)

69 "this is the most stunning of all

look at those stellar candidates

this is the first time I was excited about an election, seeing some of these candidates up there - Walker, Jindal, Cruz, Fiorina

but, they weren't supported

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 01, 2016 03:59 PM (qCMvj)"

Remember 4 years ago? "oh we may lose with Mitt now, but wait til 2016! what a crop of young stars we have"

completely and totally decimated.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at March 01, 2016 04:00 PM (n/ogz)

70 What I'm afraid of is Trump gets elected and he works with the same GOP leadership we all know and hate. I want to taste their salty tears and bang their daughters.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 01, 2016 04:00 PM (0vdts)

71 >>>Many of these #neverTrump folks, are going to vote for him once their #trumpertantrum is over.

many, MANY won't. The ethic against racism is as important to this class as it is to the liberals, and it is professionally suicidal to have anything to do with someone who gives off so much as a racist vibe.

and let's be honest, trump may not be racist, but he's sure giving off a lot of racist vibes.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:00 PM (dciA+)

72 >>>Well, if all these projections of gloom transpire,
Cruz can and should run again in 2020 and maybe then, after 4 years of
Hillary, folks would have come to their senses and vote for him.

Posted by: IC at March 01, 2016 03:48 PM (a0IVu)<<<

**looks at the "$40 trillion debt," the 7-2 Lib majority on the Supreme court, the 20+ million new citizens from South of the Border, a Dem Senate, and useless still likely Paul Ryan led House**
Uh, yeah... no thanks.

Posted by: 2020 Ted Cruz at March 01, 2016 04:00 PM (H9MG5)

73 >>>>Obviously Cruz is an establishment sell-out based on this non-story of a
Goldman Sachs exec giving to TRUMP and your goofy speculation this
means they're totes behind Cruz.

Ace, damn man...you obviously know little about GS and their influence in politics and the economy in the US and Europe. Ask the Greeks about the sweet, sweet deal GS made for them. Look around and see who all the major central bankers call their former employers.

They are known as the "Vampire Squid" for good reason. They are like the mob and no one leaves the mob on their own terms.

Posted by: Hayao at March 01, 2016 04:01 PM (w/bVh)

74 Pulled the level for Cruz earlier today. Not too sure I can pull the lever for Trump later in the year if needs be.

Posted by: Darth Randall at March 01, 2016 04:01 PM (6n332)

75 Hey, guys. You do realize, of course, that Trump is a JFK Democrat, don't you? Read the Dem Party Platform of 1960:

https://tinyurl.com/862axxw

On all the important issues, a JFK Democrat is as conservative, if not more, as a modern 'Republican.'---pro national defense, pro-military, pro business, pro-economic growth, anti-communist, pro free-market, pro full employment, pro-small business, pro law-enforcement... I could go on. This was before the communists took over the party.

https://tinyurl.com/862axxw

The country has moved so far to the left that the republicans are no longer really conservative, Trump is no Hitler or aberration from outer space. He's a reasonable choice for candidate.

I can't fucking believe the hysteria on the Republican side. Trump is not the anti-christ. If you'd prefer to vote for a bona fide marxist instead of a guy no worse than a JFK Democrat, then to hell with you.

Posted by: ahem at March 01, 2016 04:01 PM (lKGzI)

76 Except for Texas, Cruz has fallen to third or worse behind Trump and the Rube. Shit.

Posted by: Valiant at March 01, 2016 04:01 PM (2bqlb)

77 Just take a look at that alleged conservative Paul Ryan. He now only gives interviews to friendly MSM outlets, refuses to talk to conservative media.
Posted by: Decaf at March 01, 2016 03:58 PM (KAB75)

In fairness, it's the best he can do.

Posted by: First-Rate Political Hack at March 01, 2016 04:02 PM (dH97I)

78 More on Paul Ryan, he had no qualms funding Planned Parenthood in the cromnibus and that's just peachy but anyone who's ever said anything approving about PP is evil.

Establishment Republicans should publish a style manual so we can all get with the program.

Posted by: Decaf at March 01, 2016 04:02 PM (KAB75)

79 Trump says he'll make it less likely you'll get laid off or be decapitated in a terrorist attack.

The end.

Yes, and I have a 14 inch penis that is bigger around than your arm, and have just as much to prove it as Trump does. Could we both be full of shit?

Posted by: maddogg, now certified infrequently vile at March 01, 2016 04:02 PM (xWW96)

80 Unlike some, I object to Trump on a personal level -- he is in fact a conman, and his lifelong liberal orientation guarantees he will always bow to liberal pressure and take the liberal path of least resistance -- but I do not object to aspects of Trumpism, and in fact support some of them.
Posted by: Ace at 03:40 PM

It's aesthetic.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at every day for the past year.

But it's ok Ace! I was where you are 6 months ago!

It
Gets
Better

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 04:02 PM (xuouz)

81 That his economic policy will reflect the views of those who were in power when the United States was hit by the economic crisis of 2008.

This is not just unfair, its historically ignorant. It was not the Bush administration's economic policies that caused or even contributed to the crash of 2008. Not even a little. In fact, more than a dozen times, President Bush called on congress to take steps to address the coming crash and was roundly ignored.

For all his problems, Bush was a very solid president on the economy, and acting like he somehow was to blame for what happened is to buy into the idiot vomit that the left lies about.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2016 04:02 PM (39g3+)

82 55: ace, i am not a trump guy. just sayin. cruz would be best for the country, but, i don't think it will happen. we are going to be stuck with the beast. let them own this trainwreck.

Posted by: chave the hugo at March 01, 2016 04:03 PM (ucDmr)

83 A JFK Democrat is 4 clicks to the right of the current Dem party. At least.

Posted by: eleven at March 01, 2016 04:03 PM (qUNWi)

84 I think this post 's Ewok is entering the bargaining stage of Trump

Posted by: votermom at March 01, 2016 04:03 PM (cbfNE)

85 Bringing people into the GOP is a good, obviously. But you obviously can't go alienating almost all of the college set, either (which is a large part of the GOP).

I thought the college set were breaking for the Bern?
Unless I don't understand what "college set" means.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2016 04:03 PM (+058L)

86 It's sad funny that people would think Trump is a champion for the working people / common folks. He might let you mow one of his golf courses but caddies not allowed past the front door. How is George Bush tarnished by some people here in the past about being born with a silver spoon in his mouth and Trump avoid any criticism of his overt distaste for the commoner?

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at March 01, 2016 04:03 PM (UGLi1)

87 One man's low-rent hustler is another man's Salesman of the Year.

Posted by: Glengarry Glenross at March 01, 2016 04:03 PM (VDEzK)

88 i'm only here for the tips on how to achieve happiness...

Posted by: redc1c4 at March 01, 2016 04:03 PM (ISW4H)

89 Yes, and I have a 14 inch penis that is bigger around than your arm, and have just as much to prove it as Trump does. Could we both be full of shit?
Posted by: maddogg, now certified infrequently vile at March 01, 2016 04:02 PM (xWW96)

If you bomb terrorists instead of arming them, you're safer.

If you cut taxes and regulatory burden instead of increasing them to a fault, the economy improves.

We don't need a genius, we need an asshole.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 04:03 PM (xuouz)

90 So tell me, who are the people in this group voting for?

How about the $250K to $500K independent business person/professional class.

These are the small business owners, doctors, dentists, tow truck owners, garbage hauling company presidents, small corporation officers, etc.

Do you think they're for Rubio? How about Cruz?

Or, do you think this group recognizes the need for fundamental change in the organization and operations of our government, to bring some semblance of value to what is being taken away in taxes?

Posted by: jwest at March 01, 2016 04:04 PM (Zs4uk)

91 3:42 p.m. BREAKING NEWS: Judge in Illinois dismisses lawsuit arguing Ted Cruz is ineligible to be president.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 01, 2016 04:04 PM (8PbKi)

92 Man if only some of us Morons hadn't set up a blog which ended up talking about this non-stop...like "So you burnt down the GOP" or "Trump throws establishment a lifeline."

Posted by: tsrblke (on adblocker) at March 01, 2016 04:04 PM (tM4uk)

93 As for this minute I would vote Trump vs Hildabeast in a general election, As I wrote above Hildabeast would be the start of a Leftist apocalypse. Trump will be only a minor improvement of the current. Trump winning probably also means a Republican congress so hopefully some excessive policy will be moderated.

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:04 PM (fizMZ)

94 A JFK Democrat is 4 clicks to the right of the GOP.

Posted by: eleven at March 01, 2016 04:04 PM (qUNWi)

95 Hillary will not win the presidency. She's not electable. And the dems know it.

Posted by: Soona at March 01, 2016 04:04 PM (Fmupd)

96 "Welfare for Working People"? Hadn't heard about that one. One of the commenters hints that's a proposal for a tariff on certain imports? I know Trump has talked some about tariffs as a way to combat currency devaluation by some governments - notably China. Not sure how that works, but don't believe it's supposed to be a permanent program - and hadn't heard it called Welfare for Workers before.

I'm not in favor of welfare, but if, instead of tariffs, you are referring to tax cuts - I'm OK with that.

Posted by: One-Eyed Cat Peeping in the Seafood Store at March 01, 2016 04:04 PM (aeVIR)

97 "For almost eight years, it has been increasingly clear that many, many
Republicans -- probably a majority of the party -- do not agree with any
of the five principles outlined above."

Not to mention that those five principles (amnesty, moar "free trade", another sandbox war, Bush-ian foreign policy, and coddling Wall Street) are _also_ extremely unpopular with independent swing voters.

That is, with the people who now quietly make up a majority of the electorate.

Neither Republicans nor Democrats can now win elections with just their respective bases. They've got to compete and win in the middle.

Obama managed to win the middle with "hope and change", plus his predecessor's bungling, plus weak opponents, plus Historic Firstness. But the bloom is off that rose by now.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 01, 2016 04:04 PM (noWW6)

98 Hell, after 2006, the GOP could have saved themselves if they embraced the Tea Party, but instead they dismissed them and even insulted them, so fucking smug. All they wanted was a focus on fiscal matters and they were called rubes and racists. Pathetic, so I hope they get what's coming to them : Pain.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 01, 2016 04:04 PM (0vdts)

99 For all his problems, Bush was a very solid president on the economy, and acting like he somehow was to blame for what happened is to buy into the idiot vomit that the left lies about.

---------------

I don't blame him for the crisis, but I do blame him for the response to the crisis.

Posted by: SH at March 01, 2016 04:04 PM (gmeXX)

100 Voted this morning at Republican polling place in Denton County, Texas. Pretty long line waiting to vote. Lots of local election signs but didn't see a single Trump sign. Voted for Cruz, as did my wife. She made up her mind 3 months ago for Cruz. We're seniors, so no one gives a crap what we think, but she is fiercely anti-Trump, thinks he is crude and will "sell us out to make a deal" with the Left if he is elected.
Of course, she could be wrong, but i ain't telling her.

Posted by: mikeyslaw at March 01, 2016 04:05 PM (Wkdli)

101 "And After Trump...?"

We have yet to live through "And After Obama and Mitch McConnell and Boehner and Ryan ..."

Posted by: Decaf at March 01, 2016 04:05 PM (KAB75)

102 Posted by: redc1c4 at March 01, 2016 04:03 PM (ISW4H)

You already said that things you like are a diversion and that you get your happiness from booze and meat. You are as happy as you have made up your mind to be.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 01, 2016 04:05 PM (w4NZ8)

103 We don't need a genius, we need an asshole.
Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 04:03 PM (xuouz)

We've had an asshole for 8 years, how's that workin' out?

Posted by: maddogg, now certified infrequently vile at March 01, 2016 04:05 PM (xWW96)

104 Many of these #neverTrump folks, are going to vote for him once their #trumpertantrum is over.

I don't know, there's a big snob appeal to saying you're not voting for him, even if you're not big on the issues or usually vote for republicans,

As a conservative friend of mine said, "do you know how embarrassing this is?" Once your telling yourself that, it's going to be a lot harder to check your ego and vote for him

Posted by: brak at March 01, 2016 04:05 PM (MJuTN)

105 Here's the thing. No matter who wins the nomination, they are going to be demonized, just as harshly as Trump will be. Look how the Left turned on John McCain when he ran. He was their darling, until he went up against their boyfriend. Same thing with Romney. And we don't fight back. Trump will fight back.

I don't agree with Trump, but he has energized the base like no one I've seen since Reagan. The GOP pundits who dismiss his chances in the general election are the same ones who told us Romney was the only candidate who could win the general in 2012.

Posted by: Mike at March 01, 2016 04:05 PM (ISxUB)

106 There is going to be a major change here. The ruling class could have actually detected this, and attempted to manage the change, to create some kind of hybrid that would satisfy both the old guard and the new upstarts. Instead, they have consistently doubled-down on failure.

they live in a bubble
and they have to keep their donors happy

they probably think everyone stops at Starbucks* and buys a scone** and a latte each morning

fact is, people cannot afford it

*or wherever
**or whatever

not everyone is getting mani/pedicures

not everyone gets to eat out a lot

they have no idea, really

what do they think is happening to all of those people who lose their jobs (like Carrier), in the blink of an eye?

what are all of those millions of people that stopped looking for work doing? you think they feel good about themselves.

the GOP does not care
they are clueless

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 01, 2016 04:05 PM (qCMvj)

107
It's aesthetic.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at every day for the past year.

But it's ok Ace! I was where you are 6 months ago!

It

Gets

Better

All politicians are slimy snakes.

I want my politician to be slimier, snakier and have more venom than say ... Hillary.

He still might bite me. Risk/reward.

Posted by: Glengarry Glenross at March 01, 2016 04:05 PM (VDEzK)

108 Great post.

Just sayin' I know ALOT of people in a traditional midwest Obama blue state that has recently elected a Republican governor. They are Obama voters in 08 (all) and in '12 (mostly). ALL are now for DT. I can't find a woman who supports Hillary.

I too support Cruz (since his Senate primary), but I think DT would beat Hillary, because of the low info voters. Just a hunch. Those national snapshot polls aren't predictive this far out.

Posted by: Tune In Drop Out at March 01, 2016 04:06 PM (VDfmG)

109 67 "that a lot of people sort of can't understand why this low-rent hustler could appeal to anybody."

Which is so frustrating since it's dead simple.

Trump says he'll make it less likely you'll get laid off or be decapitated in a terrorist attack.

The end.

---

No, not the end. Everyone says, to some extent, "hey vote for me because I plan to keep you safer/better employed/in a good healthcare program/whatever". That's not unique to Trump and it surprises no one that people want that. People are surprised that others are falling for his bullshit about how he plans to do those things (he doesn't know, but it'll be huge) and that they're ignoring his character (which is what we count on to know that other politicians will honestly follow through on the plans they have)

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at March 01, 2016 04:06 PM (Iuwxp)

110 Off topic, I've been watching a series on Netflix called American Genius which is petty good stuff. But its funny listening to all the Two Steps From Hell they use as background music.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2016 04:06 PM (39g3+)

111 Hillary will not win the presidency. She's not electable. And the dems know it.
Posted by: Soona

Does she turn off certain voters in her own Party? Good thing we won't have that problem.

Posted by: Branson at March 01, 2016 04:06 PM (st1SS)

112 Chris Christie in Kentucky giving an opening speech for DT.

Posted by: mega machines at March 01, 2016 04:06 PM (fbovC)

113 I'm predicting epic melt downs. I am confused if I should laugh at those having the melt downs. I like these people.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. Blah, blah,blah at March 01, 2016 04:06 PM (WVsWD)

114 >>>
It's aesthetic.

no it's not. I'm not objecting to him for his boorishness. I'm objecting to him because on policy, where he isn't outright liberal, he's completely uninformed and hasn't even bothered to think about it, thereby guaranteeing he will follow the liberal path of least resistance.

He's lazy. something evident by hte fact that at this late date his health care plan is just ObamaCare + "getting rid of the lines."

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:06 PM (dciA+)

115 "many, MANY won't. The ethic against racism is as important to this class as it is to the liberals, and it is professionally suicidal to have anything to do with someone who gives off so much as a racist vibe.

and let's be honest, trump may not be racist, but he's sure giving off a lot of racist vibes.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:00 PM (dciA+)"

Perhaps, but really... on my social media streams, the punditry side of things, is way heavy in the #neverTrump game, I think a lot of these are committed conservatives, or RINOey types, who don't like Trump and I expect them to do what they say. You guys are a loud (and I'm sticking you in the group as a pundity guy, even though your not as far as I can tell in the #neverTrump crowd) vocal minority of actual people. In the real life crowd of people I interact with on a personal level, or social media friends, there is hardly any of it. Other than a few very religious evangelical folks, that are honestly bewildered that the carnival barker is winning those groups.

So while the #neverTrump is a loud group, how big is it? How do those "i won't support my candidate" polls shift when he is actually the candidate?

A lot of time left to run out on the clock, we'll see.

I think the party shift/realignment like these 20K dems in MA is the tip of the iceberg. Time will tell.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at March 01, 2016 04:06 PM (n/ogz)

116 /getthemtosignonthelinewhichisdotted sock off

Posted by: Mortimer at March 01, 2016 04:06 PM (VDEzK)

117 >>>>We've had an asshole for 8 years, how's that workin' out?

No, we've had a weaselly dip-shit for 8 years. We need an ass-hole to straightened this shit out.

Posted by: Hayao at March 01, 2016 04:06 PM (w/bVh)

118 And if you really wanted some advice you could look to the video from Dennis Prager which was posted first thing on the happiness thread. :^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 01, 2016 04:06 PM (w4NZ8)

119 88- I'm going to be happy no matter who wins, it's a matter of how much work hiding weapons I need to do.

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:07 PM (fizMZ)

120
We don't need a genius, we need an asshole.
Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 04:03 PM (xuouz)

No Kari, we need a dick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32iCWzpDpKs

Posted by: First-Rate Political Hack at March 01, 2016 04:07 PM (dH97I)

121 You do realize, of course, that Trump is a JFK Democrat, don't you?

An "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" JFK Democrat?

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2016 04:07 PM (+058L)

122 "not the end. Everyone says, to some extent, "hey vote for me because I plan to keep you safer/better employed/in a good healthcare program/whatever".

But Trump has the salesmanship to make it both painless and believable.

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2016 04:08 PM (92Dmd)

123 and let's be honest, trump may not be racist, but he's sure giving off a lot of racist vibes.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:00 PM (dciA+
Well now ace, that and I"m not about to pull the lever for someone who's open about wanting to start a trade war.

Posted by: tsrblke (on adblocker) at March 01, 2016 04:08 PM (tM4uk)

124 How about we discuss Grant vs Lee? Lurked a long time.
Sick of politics. I'm going to vote my mind. Y'all will too.
This is a smart military blog. Prove it

BTW, I like Grant.

Posted by: Thanatopsis at March 01, 2016 04:08 PM (fiBHP)

125 >>>Just sayin' I know ALOT of people in a traditional midwest Obama blue state that has recently elected a Republican governor. They are Obama voters in 08 (all) and in '12 (mostly). ALL are now for DT. I can't find a woman who supports Hillary.

this is the Pauline Kael effect, though. in a community of people all on the same basic wavelength, you shouldn't be surprised everyone seems to agree.

the Rubes people and establishment people (but I repeat myself) also say they cannot find a single Trump voter.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:08 PM (dciA+)

126 "Like all highly educated and open-minded people, they absolutely refuse to even consider opposing viewpoints."

That's a gem right there, Ace. I plan to steal it often and shamelessly. I would have gone so far as to say "acknowledge" rather than "consider", but the point is well made regardless.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at March 01, 2016 04:08 PM (S2VsH)

127 Amnesty is the absolute and irredeemable deal breaker for me. Any candidate advocating this is admitting he wants death for the America I've lived in for my 58 years on this marble and I will not be an accomplice in its destruction. This is the last hand we have to play and I'm putting all my chips on the table. It sure as hell isn't going to get any better unless we make a stand.

Posted by: nraendowment at March 01, 2016 04:09 PM (Msv+6)

128 112 Chris Christie in Kentucky giving an opening speech for DT.
Posted by: mega machines at March 01, 2016 04:06 PM (fbovC)

Yeah, endorsement from Fat Bastard Rino goes a long ways toward selling Trump to me.

Posted by: maddogg, now certified infrequently vile at March 01, 2016 04:09 PM (xWW96)

129 Unlike some, I object to Trump on a personal level

I hate to grab the first phrase because it looks as if I didn't read the whole thing. I did, swearsies.

I really hadn't accepted the possibility of Actual Trump. I was sure he would go away. I watch Morning Joe every day and they kept telling me that he was real.

I'm doing a crash course on the Kubler-Ross-Meyer-Briggs-Overton-Window-Chersterton-Gate progression of grief, bargaining, and daytime drinking.

I hate Trump with all the hate my hate gland can produce and I wish my hate ducts were bigger so they could carry more hate.

I do not hate Trump supporters, I understand what has pushed you there.

But good god, this Trump? This is what we get?

Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 01, 2016 04:09 PM (1xUj/)

130 He's lazy. something evident by hte fact that at this late date his health care plan is just ObamaCare + "getting rid of the lines."

-------------

He's not lazy, he's pro-government. To be honest, most of the country is.

Posted by: SH at March 01, 2016 04:09 PM (gmeXX)

131 What racist vibes is Trump giving off?

Posted by: eleven at March 01, 2016 04:09 PM (qUNWi)

132 Per that Politico article today, Trump's personnel are all hacks. None of them could manage a Dairy Queen, let alone a political party. So if Trump wins you'd get no changeover in leadership in the long run, because Trump's lousy crew won't be able to wiggle their way into anything.

There has to be a point to revolution, an endgame, and I don't see it here. If it was inevitable, it sure was inconveniently timed, as it seems poised to accomplish nothing in the long run but turning the GOP into the Golden Dawn -- and that's the "successful" outcome.

Posted by: Cjw at March 01, 2016 04:09 PM (9qbOD)

133 >>>Well now ace, that and I"m not about to pull the lever for someone who's open about wanting to start a trade war

i imagine he'll be coopted by his business wing friends, probably.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:09 PM (dciA+)

134 Grant vs Lee?

Ulysses or Ginger?

Posted by: Mortimer at March 01, 2016 04:09 PM (VDEzK)

135 The GOPe refuses to learn that money doesn't fight (or walk into the voting booth.) The party is about to BIF and will if Trumps wins everything but Texas and they are still pushing Dondi.

Posted by: WOPR at March 01, 2016 04:09 PM (LTDSy)

136 At this rate, we are going to need a daily happiness thread.

Posted by: IC at March 01, 2016 04:10 PM (a0IVu)

137 I looked at Gateway Pundit a little bit ago. He never was much on accuracy, but now he is just giving blogging a bad name.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at March 01, 2016 04:10 PM (TnUKj)

138 Well now ace, that and I"m not about to pull the lever for someone who's open about wanting to start a trade war.Posted by: tsrblke (on adblocker)

Trade war?

We had one. We came in second place to China. 57, 000 American factories closed, millions of manufacturing jobs disappeared.

Posted by: mega machines at March 01, 2016 04:10 PM (fbovC)

139 What I'm seeing is this. Democrats know Hillary can win in spite of being a career criminal. 52%! Remember that percentage. The Republican GOPe don't have enough brains to nominate Cruz. They really wanted Heb, but would settle for Rubberio. They pretend to hate Trump, but they really hate Cruz. Cruz said this morning on Beck something like 'Most people hate Washington, Washington hates me.' Then something like 'Washington felt the same way about Reagan.' True, so true.

Posted by: Eromero at March 01, 2016 04:10 PM (zLDYs)

140 I tire of people telling me "Vote for Rubio! because he isn't "Trump!" all the time.
Still, Mario has never been an option for me. While Trump may or may not get my vote, I find a certain anticipation in breaking the hold, breaking the spirit, and humbling the arrogance surrounding the Libs and the GOPe of the last 30 years.
This country will be fine, but face it, it's broken already, what we need it the will to repair it.

Posted by: IP at March 01, 2016 04:10 PM (aQQbl)

141 Did I mention that I just bought a case of Yuengling bottles this afternoon?

Just tossing it out there.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at March 01, 2016 04:10 PM (ptqRm)

142 It's been said ad nauseum, but our "representatives" work for us; we don't work for them. It's not hard to understand, but it is hard to enforce. And getting harder.

As this election cycle clearly shows for even the dimmest of us to see, the Establishment feels entitled to our votes and our continued support no matter what they do, and can actively do the opposite of what the People want. If they feel that the People are wrong or misinformed about a certain issue, it is their responsibility to inform us. If they don't do so to change our minds, then their desired change doesn't happen. No different than attorneys - you may know the better choice for your client, but your client makes the final call. If he makes the wrong one, that's because you didn't persuade him enough. Doesn't matter if he's stupid, you are there to help him.

What the GOPe has done is negotiate with the Dems, who figuratively want me dead by torture, so I send in the GOPe to argue my case that I am innocent and want to live, and the GOPe comes out of the Judge's chambers proud and beaming that they talked the Dems down to death by firing squad. And that they are all going golfing afterwards. That's not "making a deal" for me, that's rolling over completely. They don't represent me - they don't even care. Worse, they are on THEIR side.

They don't represent us. They represent themselves or rich donors or special interests. They don't even listen to us anymore, and most insultingly, they don't even hide it. Do you honestly think this state of affairs will endure?

What's the solution? Nothing surgical, not at this stage.Trump may not be much better, but he's not THEM, and he's a really big mallet to hit them with. The legitimate avenues of consequence are being closed off to us, have been for about 9 years. Trump
(and to a lesser extent, Cruz) is, perhaps, a last ditch attempt bring legitimate
consequence to the deserving. If the GOPe actually goes 3rd Party if
Trump wins, after all of the bullshit they've talked on that option for
15 years, their credibility will disappear forever, followed swiftly by the party itself.

All of you dooming and glooming Trump, and arguing Idiocracy is now upon us because of Trump's popularity, seem to forget this dissent into Hell started picking up speed in Nov. 2008. Barry's thuggishness put pressure on the Congress and SCOTUS, and they
cracked. Now the foundations are damaged, perhaps beyond repair. Anyone realizing that now is just late to the show.

This is the Big tent you wrung your hands over. This is the SMOD you called to. This is the collapse of the GOPe you prayed for. It's just not happening like you thought it would, and what comes next may not be pretty, but it will not be boring.

Thinking Cruz or Trump will actually "save us", or reverse what 70 years of culture rot has brought us, is no different than a Bernie voter seeking that sweet, free education - you just want government to save you. You have to save yourself and your ilk, day to day, on the individual level. That's the solution you are lookign for, and you won't find it in DC, no matter who's running the show. So keep that in mind when you are a Trump voter wishing death on a Cruz voter and vice versa.

Posted by: SaltyDonnie at March 01, 2016 04:10 PM (i6shs)

143 >>>What racist vibes is Trump giving off?

retweeting white supremacist accounts pushing obviously-crank statistics about black criminality, for one thing

basically calling mexican illegals rapists for another

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:11 PM (dciA+)

144
@ Dr. Shatterhand:
Nope, this is no tantrum, I will not vote for the man. Period. I bow to nobody (well, maybe Ace) in my sheer hatred of the GOPe, I would gladly round all of them up and napalm the lot. K-street would burn and the country would be the better for it. But that lying deceiver will not get my vote. I will indeed stay home, even if that means Hitlery.
Trump supporters, here is your challenge for the day- List the top three policy objectives you believe you are voting for in a Trump administration. The Wall? Deportations? What are they... ya'll got 'em listed?
OK... I am telling you right now, not one of those things will happen. None. You've been had by a lifetime democrat who tells a good story and throws a good insult. Sorry, but that's the truth. Yes, the repubs suck balls... doesn't mean the liar with the comb-over deserves my vote.

Posted by: Pining4 at March 01, 2016 04:11 PM (Uwuaq)

145 As a conservative friend of mine said, "do you know how embarrassing this is?" Once your telling yourself that, it's going to be a lot harder to check your ego and vote for him

Voting as status signaling and emotional fulfilment.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:11 PM (uURQL)

146 Trade war?

We had one. We came in second place to China. 57, 000 American factories closed, millions of manufacturing jobs disappeared.

------------

America will be great again when we are manufacturing t-shirts and cheap toys again.

Posted by: SH at March 01, 2016 04:11 PM (gmeXX)

147 For all his problems, Bush was a very solid president on the economy, and acting like he somehow was to blame for what happened is to buy into the idiot vomit that the left lies about.

_____

Bush also told us to go shopping after 9/11 and in his 2004 acceptance speech told us how awesome it was that a Hispanic family was able to buy their first home. In other words he was perfectly content with presiding over a credit bubble.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:11 PM (0LHZx)

148 Welfare for Working People is completely wrong on its face, obviously crafted by someone with no real knowledge of who the working class are.

If they wanted welfare they can have it in the blink of an eye - and for some, do better than they are now, money wise. They know this, all of them do.

Offering specifically them a handout is an insult.

Posted by: Bigby's Handbrake at March 01, 2016 04:11 PM (3ZtZW)

149 141 Did I mention that I just bought a case of Yuengling bottles this afternoon?
Just tossing it out there.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at March 01, 2016 04:10 PM (ptqRm)

I have a Party Pak of Gibble's...

Posted by: First-Rate Political Hack at March 01, 2016 04:11 PM (dH97I)

150 You can take the medicine of Trump (a Huey Long-type figure) or something worse will come down the pike.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - See The Outrage Outlet's specials in the weekly Firing Squad Circular! at March 01, 2016 04:11 PM (hLRSq)

151 At this rate, we are going to need a daily happiness thread.
Posted by: IC at March 01, 2016 04:10 PM (a0IVu)
-------
Phucking happiness is overrated!

Posted by: RioBravo at March 01, 2016 04:11 PM (NUqwG)

152 i imagine he'll be coopted by his business wing friends, probably.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:09 PM (dciA+
The question is which ones? The ones that would benefit from a trade war? (See: Steel) or the one's that wouldn't (see: retail)

Posted by: tsrblke (on adblocker) at March 01, 2016 04:12 PM (tM4uk)

153 I have a Party Pak of Gibble's...
Posted by: First-Rate Political Hack at March 01, 2016 04:11 PM (dH97I)
-----
Are those a type of gerbil?

Posted by: RioBravo at March 01, 2016 04:12 PM (NUqwG)

154 I thought "let it burn" was a joke, it's fucking here.

Posted by: Iron Wombat at March 01, 2016 04:12 PM (SYgVN)

155 Posted by: IC at March 01, 2016 04:10 PM (a0IVu)

or recipes on how to get drunk and stay that way for the remainder of 2016 or how to be abducted by aliens ;^) J/K

My happiness will consist of getting off these threads today before any returns come in and staying off till Thursday.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 01, 2016 04:12 PM (w4NZ8)

156
If Trump does force alignment it will be clearly strictly along class lines ( Belmont vs. Fishtown to paraphrase Charles Murray).

If Trump loses the followers will find something else and something probably a lot worse.

Posted by: Levin at March 01, 2016 04:12 PM (s26zM)

157 America will be great again when we are manufacturing t-shirts and cheap toys again.
Posted by: SH at March 01, 2016 04:11 PM (gmeXX)

Posted on computer hardware Made In China.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:12 PM (uURQL)

158 122 "not the end. Everyone says, to some extent, "hey vote for me because I plan to keep you safer/better employed/in a good healthcare program/whatever".

But Trump has the salesmanship to make it both painless and believable.

----

Sure for some folks. The rest of us are surprised that other people are falling for bullshit "salesmanship" aka con artistry.

I guess it's a weird thing, how certain types of charisma/salesmanship work differently for people. Billy Jeff is famous for his charisma, and how he could sell ice to an Eskimo, and I kind of get it. Donald Trump I have to squint a lot harder to see how it works. Rubio is another case of charisma that only works with some.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at March 01, 2016 04:12 PM (Iuwxp)

159
basically calling mexican illegals rapists for another

Yeah but I don't think that's racism in play, just Trump firing from the hip and overstating his case like he always does. I agree it comes across as racist and certainly there's a tiny splinter of retard in America that hears it as "their voice" but I don't think he is racist at all.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2016 04:13 PM (39g3+)

160 He's lazy. something evident by hte fact that at this late date his health care plan is just ObamaCare + "getting rid of the lines."

____________

If you want to know my #1 beef with Trump, it's this. The guy won't even sit down with a policy guy and be able to at least sound halfway intelligent on the issue he's discussing.

At the one debate when asked about TPP, he said it was too generous to China. China wasn't even a party to TPP.

People labeled as "idiots" like Michele Bachman knew 1000 times more on any issue than Trump.

Same with ben carson, I sometimes liked his instincts, but if a guy can't even crack a book.

Posted by: Branson at March 01, 2016 04:13 PM (st1SS)

161 Did I mention that I just bought a case of Yuengling bottles this afternoon?

Just tossing it out there.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice

300 Quatloos for your beverages.

Posted by: Disembodied Spirit Voice of the Former Ruling Class at March 01, 2016 04:13 PM (TnUKj)

162 He's lazy. something evident by hte fact that at this late date his health care plan is just ObamaCare + "getting rid of the lines."

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:06 PM (dciA+)

He's not lazy, ace. I guarantee you that Trump' s work ethic beats any of hours.He didn't get to he a billionaire by being lazy.

What I think you mean us that he's not intellectually curious. He wants practical answers and doesn't have patience for theory.

Posted by: votermom at March 01, 2016 04:13 PM (cbfNE)

163 "131 What racist vibes is Trump giving off?
Posted by: eleven at March 01, 2016 04:09 PM (qUNWi)" It's the very nuanced verbal queues that sort of imply not nice things, like mentioning the ethnicity of the judge the other day.

It's unnecessary, and it probably deliberately speaks to a certain type of person.

The whole dust up over the KKK was stupid, and should have not become a story, but he allowed, even after disavowing Duke the day before, and 16 years ago. But these things are allowed to sort of fester in a way that is by design and not good. Any sane person would just say. This KKK endorsement is silly, it's 2500 nutcases in a country of 320 Million people, we want every vote but we can Make America Great again without them.

Very simple.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at March 01, 2016 04:13 PM (n/ogz)

164
I'd love to see a Poll of how many Trump supporters were the ones who used to go to TEA party rallies....
---
*raises hand, somewhat late*

Posted by: Methos, AoS commenter since 2006, apparently also non-voting democrat at March 01, 2016 04:13 PM (ZbV+0)

165 If Trump loses the followers will find something else and something probably a lot worse.

Trump is the moderate option.

It will be interesting to see if America rejects him in favor of Good and Hard.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:13 PM (uURQL)

166 >>basically calling mexican illegals rapists for another

Posted by: ace

Are you saying they're not?

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 01, 2016 04:13 PM (0vdts)

167 131 What racist vibes is Trump giving off?
Posted by: eleven

the one where other people call him racist and make up quotes which is completely different than the vibe some people give off here when a cop kills a black and they can't wait to say the kid had it coming.

Posted by: x at March 01, 2016 04:13 PM (nFwvY)

168 P.S. I vote for the "Value-Rite" party. It's all we will be able to afford anyway.

Posted by: Pining4 at March 01, 2016 04:14 PM (Uwuaq)

169 >>> As a conservative friend of mine said, "do you know how embarrassing this is?" Once your telling yourself that, it's going to be a lot harder to check your ego and vote for him

Voting as status signaling and emotional fulfilment.

...

you can say that all you want as you go whistling past the grave.

You think they're wrong to do this. Fine. But this is the way you are. You have no plan or plausible path to get these people on to your side except to insult them -- which is the same plan the GOPe has for you.

And how's that workin'?

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:14 PM (dciA+)

170 "I think the losses will exceed the gains."

Disagree. Firstly, those who won't vote for Trump but will instead stay home are disproportionately in Deep Blue states and what they do won't matter. It also helps explain why the think "Trump Bad."

Secondly, and more importantly Reagan Democrats outnumber the George Wills in this country by a lot.

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 01, 2016 04:14 PM (r1fLd)

171 Well, no way in hell I'm going to get the others. Already had a flamethrower used on me by AtC.

Posted by: HH at March 01, 2016 03:45 PM (DrCtv)

Aren't you the special snowflake.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - See The Outrage Outlet's specials in the weekly Firing Squad Circular! at March 01, 2016 04:14 PM (hLRSq)

172 Mr. BTEG and I are both college-educated. Mr. BTEG is super intelligent (he's currently taken up robotics as his fun hobby.) But neither of us are part of the elite, perhaps because both of our families came from the working class. Which apparently means we are knuckle-dragging Neanderthals. This pisses me off. I'd like to think someone in the GOP will read this, but I doubt if they're smart enough.
Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at March 01, 2016 03:52 PM (FQKBL)

I think a lot of has to do if you respected your parents. My dad went through a training program at DuPont to become an electrician. I always respected him for that. I think a lot of the GOPe types who came from blue collar backgrounds get indoctrinated in college and are embarrassed by their parents. Thus they look down on their background.

Posted by: WOPR at March 01, 2016 04:14 PM (LTDSy)

173 "and let's be honest, trump may not be racist, but he's sure giving off a lot of racist vibes. "

Sad.

Posted by: nip at March 01, 2016 04:14 PM (r73Jl)

174
Danielle Allen is a political theorist at Harvard University and a contributing columnist for The Post. Like
any number of us raised in the late 20th century, I have spent my life
perplexed about exactly how Hitler could have come to power in Germany.
Watching Donald Trump's rise, I now understand.

http://tinyurl.com/hfnsc7f

Weellll damn...

I guess I can't possibly vote for DerFuehrer, now can I ?

What was that Canadian's name again?

Posted by: Mortimer at March 01, 2016 04:14 PM (VDEzK)

175 Content, rats, I'll have to catch up later.

Posted by: DaveA at March 01, 2016 04:14 PM (DL2i+)

176 seems to me Ace lays the blame where it's due

but Ace, you seem to think Hillary will have a cake-walk

I don't think so

Posted by: Feh at March 01, 2016 04:15 PM (L3GKO)

177 How about we discuss Grant vs Lee? Lurked a long time.

Sick of politics. I'm going to vote my mind. Y'all will too.

This is a smart military blog. Prove it

BTW, I like Grant.

Posted by: Thanatopsis at March 01, 2016 04:08 PM (fiBHP)

Lee and Longstreet should have let me go to the right around Little Round Top!

Posted by: Gen. John B. Hood at March 01, 2016 04:15 PM (JO9+V)

178 As someone put it so well this morning, if you think the last 15 years constitutes a success story for Republicans, Marco Rubio is your candidate.

Posted by: V the K at March 01, 2016 04:15 PM (O7MnT)

179 If you want to know my #1 beef with Trump, it's this. The guy won't even sit down with a policy guy and be able to at least sound halfway intelligent on the issue he's discussing.

He doesn't have to. All he has to do is bluster and holler Make America Great Again and the lemmings fall in line.

Posted by: maddogg, now certified infrequently vile at March 01, 2016 04:15 PM (xWW96)

180 What racist vibes is Trump giving off?
Posted by: eleven

When asked about David Duke and the KKK supporting him, he dodges the question saying he doesn't know anything about it. Simplest question in the world to answer.

Do I think Trump is a closet White Supremist Klansman? No

Do I think he is trying to court that vote? yes, even Rush Limbaugh has said the same thing.

Very dangerous.

Posted by: Branson at March 01, 2016 04:15 PM (st1SS)

181 Are there illegals who rape people?
Are there illegals who kill people?

The answer to both is yes.

So Trump is a racist because he said something factually correct.

This is America 2016

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:15 PM (0LHZx)

182 "Welfare for working people"? Well, he does advocate that people on welfare be required to work if they are able. Is that the objection? I have to admit, I see some merit to that.

Posted by: One-Eyed Cat Peeping in the Seafood Store at March 01, 2016 04:15 PM (aeVIR)

183 A few people on radio and blogs have pointed out other non politicians don't do well in office, Arnold and Jessy as governors.

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:15 PM (fizMZ)

184 This KKK endorsement is silly, it's 2500 nutcases in a country of 320 Million people, we want every vote but we can Make America Great again without them.

The KKK is irrelevant, which is why listening to the Left to Pledge To Reject Their Support is stupid.

Why submit to the Left as a moral arbiter on the topic? They've got outright racists Coming Home to Roost.

Attack the premise, don't submit to the demand.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:16 PM (uURQL)

185 Hillary will not win the presidency. She's not electable. And the dems know it.Posted by: Soona at March 01, 2016 04:04 PM (Fmupd)

Hillary doesn't need to win it win it. Hillary only needs to keepthe raceclose enough to make the fix believable. Millions of illegals will be voting, along with whole armies of the dead. Whole mountains of lost ballots will be lost and found again, miraculously Democratic. Real voter suppression--the kind that comes with baseball bats and steel-toed boots--will be going on in urban centers. It'll make Philly 2008 look like a hippie drum circle.

In my view, the only thing that can save the Republican nominee in the general election is a Reagan/Mondale-like landslide margin and none of those remaining--particularly Trump, Cruz and Rubio--look like landslide candidates.

Posted by: troyriser at March 01, 2016 04:16 PM (UWlp+)

186 Who among us has not been flamethrowered by AtC at one time or another?

Posted by: steevy at March 01, 2016 04:16 PM (B48dK)

187

basically calling mexican illegals rapists for another

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:11 PM (dciA+)

Who's doing the raping ace?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O6Nmx_kZMQ

This is what I watch and listen to instead of the AoSHQ podcast these days: https://www.youtube.com/user/ColinFlaherty712/videos
http://app.stitcher.com/browse/feed/48552 (click use as guest)

Posted by: First-Rate Political Hack at March 01, 2016 04:16 PM (dH97I)

188 Nobody should support any down-ticket republicans for federal office.

the Destruction must be complete. It must be both shoving Trump down their throats and getting many republicans kicked out of office.

Only then can we try to rebuild.

Otherwise, the GOP in congress will simply do what they have done for decades - play failure theater while advancing the left's agenda.

Yes, it will be painful to see democrats in charge, but you can't have a revolution without pain. there is no growth without pain. Everyone who thinks we can "change" the GOP just by our votes in primaries, etc., hasn't paid attention for the last 20 years.

The GOP establishment is entrenched. they have the incumbency, the organization, the money, and the contacts. We can't defeat them one primary at a time or by having a few protests. We can't change their minds by showing outrage on web sites. Only at the ballot box can the GOP feel true pain.

Posted by: Golden at March 01, 2016 04:16 PM (3ZtZW)

189 "What I'm afraid of is Trump gets elected and he works with the same GOP leadership we all know and hate. I want to taste their salty tears and bang their daughters.
Posted by: Dr Spank at March 01, 2016 04:00 PM (0vdts)"

------

Those are my thoughts as well though I don't want to do anything to their daughtersor with them.

Posted by: Decaf at March 01, 2016 04:16 PM (KAB75)

190 I will gladly vote for Trrump or Cruz in the general election.

Posted by: Soona at March 01, 2016 04:16 PM (Fmupd)

191 95% of "lifelong Republicans" who swear they will never vote for Trump haven't voted for a Republican in 20+ years. So I really don't give a fuck what they say.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:16 PM (0LHZx)

192 Ace hasn't noticed that Trump is motivated by his ego.

That's the only explanation for him thinking that Trump will take the easy way on anything.

As his skating rink story in New York shows, Trump will do whatever it takes to show results. He wants people to stand in awe at how he was able to make things happen where others have failed by the dozens.

This isn't some big puzzle. It's so fucking obvious everyone should see it.

When Trump is elected, he will spend every waking hour bending, breaking and eliminating rules and regulations that prevented those who went before him from getting anything done.

That's who he is. He can't help himself.

Posted by: jwest at March 01, 2016 04:16 PM (Zs4uk)

193 I will say this and then I will end comments on Trump. I think he has pluses and minuses, but saying that he didn't know who David Duke was (Really??!!) and he had to see a list before he would disavow anyone and that his earpiece wasnt working while still repeating the name David Duke four times is just disingenuous.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 01, 2016 04:16 PM (w4NZ8)

194 So I guess the working theory here is that Rubio would actively work at being a one-term president.

Posted by: spongeworthy at March 01, 2016 04:17 PM (xB4nF)

195 You have nothing to fear from Donald Trump in the White House

Posted by: Juan McAmnesty at March 01, 2016 04:17 PM (nbGZj)

196 >>>
He's not lazy, ace. I guarantee you that Trump' s work ethic beats any of hours.He didn't get to he a billionaire by being lazy.

yeah he built that empire with nothing but pluck and hard work and a million dollar loan (in 1970s money, when it worth 20 million) from his dad, plus the 400 million inherentance from his dad when he died.

meanwhile he still can't be bothered to come up with any health care policy that isn't just ObamaCare with a new Golden T erected onto it.

* Individual mandate
* Government pays for those who can't

Remind you of any other health care plans? Like the one we currently have?

This to you is some kind of "airy theory" with no practical reality to it?

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:17 PM (dciA+)

197 Are you saying they're not?

I know a lot of illegals and none of them are rapists. But welcome to 2016's idiocracy.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2016 04:17 PM (39g3+)

198 I thought Amish Dude was banned

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at March 01, 2016 04:17 PM (QPdNE)

199 138 Well now ace, that and I"m not about to pull the lever for someone who's open about wanting to start a trade war.Posted bytsrblke (on adblocker)

Trade war?

We had one. We came in second place to China. 57, 000 American factories closed, millions of manufacturing jobs disappeared.

Posted by: mega machines at March 01, 2016 04:10 PM (fbovC)

Exhibit B.... over 1/2 Trillion Dollars a year in Trade Deficit.

That 1/2 Trillion Dollars in wealth we export to the rest of the world, every year.... or about 3% of the GDP...

You know... that 3% that would mean our Economy is actually growing?

Posted by: Don Quixote at March 01, 2016 04:17 PM (RK8AH)

200 Republicans promised reform back in the 90's. We wrenched "the Contract with America" out of their withered claws, but after that? Things went back to how they've always done things.

Posted by: 13times at March 01, 2016 04:17 PM (WHVu+)

201 183 A few people on radio and blogs have pointed out other non politicians don't do well in office, Arnold and Jessy as governors.
Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:15 PM (fizMZ)

____
Ahem!!

Posted by: General Eisenhower at March 01, 2016 04:17 PM (0LHZx)

202 One more thing-I don't think Trump is a racist; I think he's for anyone that will help his bottom dollar and make his profile higher.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 01, 2016 04:17 PM (w4NZ8)

203 "@ Dr. Shatterhand:
Nope, this is no tantrum, I will not vote for the man. Period. I bow to nobody (well, maybe Ace) in my sheer hatred of the GOPe, I would gladly round all of them up and napalm the lot. K-street would burn and the country would be the better for it. But that lying deceiver will not get my vote. I will indeed stay home, even if that means Hitlery.
Trump supporters, here is your challenge for the day- List the top three policy objectives you believe you are voting for in a Trump administration. The Wall? Deportations? What are they... ya'll got 'em listed?
OK... I am telling you right now, not one of those things will happen. None. You've been had by a lifetime democrat who tells a good story and throws a good insult. Sorry, but that's the truth. Yes, the repubs suck balls... doesn't mean the liar with the comb-over deserves my vote.
Posted by: Pining4 at March 01, 2016 04:11 PM (Uwuaq)"

I totally get this, and by and large I respect it. But the larger movement is a bit of a tantrum. Totally caused by Trump himself, a lot of small stuff recently has pushed people over the edge I'm guessing for good.

My issue is that I've been asked to hold my nose and vote with the team too many times. I went for my fringe candidate in the primaries, was maligned, but I went and did my duty. Here I am again, it's the same story from the same crowd.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (n/ogz)

204 I work next to Mexicans almost every day,never been raped yet.

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (fizMZ)

205 you can say that all you want as you go whistling past the grave.

You think they're wrong to do this. Fine. But this is the way you are. You have no plan or plausible path to get these people on to your side except to insult them -- which is the same plan the GOPe has for you.

And how's that workin'?

-------------

I think that is about right. There are those of us (maybe just Ace and me) who fall in the middle. We don't want the GOPe, we don't want Trump. We are Ted Cruz supporters.

Posted by: SH at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (gmeXX)

206 Salem's piece is at Slate, eh? Interesting.

Posted by: Feh at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (L3GKO)

207 Golden sounds very Concerned about GOP power.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (dciA+)

208 David Duke is saying he never endorsed Trump? That's from Gateway Pundit, or Trump Central as I like to call it.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (0vdts)

209 A big moment was in 2014, in the Mississippi Senate primary, when the Barbour machine partnered with Democrats to smear McDaniel. Like when Lisa Murkowski refused to support the GOP nominee in Alaska and went third part instead, the Cochran race made it clear that the GOPe would literally do or say anything to maintain control.

The GOPe refused to let new Republicans take over. Now they're going to take it in the neck.

Posted by: MTF at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (TxJGV)

210 154
I thought "let it burn" was a joke, it's fucking here.

And the recent anti-Trump wave is thousands of long time (R) voters suddenly smelling smoke.

Posted by: Mortimer at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (VDEzK)

211 Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:11 PM (0LHZx)

Yes expressing a positive that a visibly hard working family was able to buy a house was terrible. Change your nic to Mr. Potter. And his ignoring the credit crisis included going to Congress multiple times to warn them of the potential crisis and presenting a written plan on recommendations to avoid it.

You will always be a self admitted fraud.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (UGLi1)

212 What racist vibes is Trump giving off?

retweeting white supremacist accounts pushing obviously-crank statistics about black criminality, for one thing

basically calling mexican illegals rapists for another

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:11 PM (dciA+)

I haven't seen the retweeting white suprmeacist accts, but the other stuff? nah, I don't agree.

I don't get a racist vibe. It goes back to what you said about him knowing nothing when it comes to the black stats tweet, he was retweeting and had no idea if it was right or not. He thought it was legit.

The hispanic thing is all about illegals.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (qCMvj)

213 no it's not. I'm not objecting to him for his boorishness. I'm objecting to him because on policy, where he isn't outright liberal, he's completely uninformed and hasn't even bothered to think about it, thereby guaranteeing he will follow the liberal path of least resistance.

He's lazy. something evident by hte fact that at this late date his health care plan is just ObamaCare + "getting rid of the lines."
Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:06 PM (dciA+)

I can only disagree with your use of "guaranteeing" in paragraph 1 and "lazy" in paragraph 2.

I can't defend him on policy. What is there to defend. But I hope it's not too smarmy of me to pull out a quote:

>Cultural power IS political power.

The president delegates. And the electorate is receiving the message: the government is incompetent. It's not racist to love America. We have to control immigration. We need to project confidence abroad.

They're very broad strokes. But it's more than I'd hoped for surveying the field last spring.

You wanted Reaganesque aspirational messaging. He's doing it. It's just not aimed at us, the wonks, the geeks, the eat-sleep-breathe politickers.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (xuouz)

214 204 Watch your squeakhole.

Posted by: steevy at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (B48dK)

215 If Trump does force alignment it will be clearly strictly along class lines ( Belmont vs. Fishtown to paraphrase Charles Murray).

===

It was coming anyway. Belmont has been sucking everything dry for a while now. And showing their ass for about as long.

Trump is actually a relatively civil way to address it, folks.

Posted by: Bigby's Handbrake at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (3ZtZW)

216 Trump supporters are voting for the idea of Trump, not Trump himself. They've turned this guy into an Internet Superhero and any logic or history regarding him is dismissed for not fitting into their personal narratives on him.

They are literally voting a meme, a fictional character, into office.

Posted by: El Kabong at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (datdl)

217 "just ObamaCare + "getting rid of the lines."

If Trump put out a plan he and it would get ravaged. So he says he wants to repeal it, but in a way that people aren't left dying in the streets. That's what you say if you want to survive the gauntlet of the general.

Cruz has stuff on his website about how Congress can overturn Roe v Wade with a simple Congressional action declaring fetuses to be persons. He'd get killed in the general with stuff like this. He's sure to get Borked if he's nominated to SCOTUS.

Just win, baby!

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (r1fLd)

218 There is a lot is bending of truth and dishonesty here.

All's fair in love an war I suppose.

Posted by: eleven at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (qUNWi)

219 You have nothing to fear of President Ted Cruz in the White House.

Posted by: Things John McCain Would Never Say at March 01, 2016 04:19 PM (nbGZj)

220 Cruz is a rejection of the Republicans.

Trump is a rejection of ALL the politicians AND the political class, including pundits (many of who like to say things like 'the Republicans always lose in government shutdowns').

I'm with Monsieur Moo Moo.

Posted by: East Bay Jay at March 01, 2016 04:19 PM (PvCxa)

221 I know a lot of illegals and none of them are rapists. But welcome to 2016's idiocracy.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2016 04:17 PM (39g3+)

____

And did Trump say all of them are? No. He said there are illegals who are rapists. Which is factually correct.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:19 PM (0LHZx)

222 Vote Maximum Entropy - burn it down.

Posted by: Jeff E at March 01, 2016 04:19 PM (QBXdZ)

223 Lots of generals have been president

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:19 PM (fizMZ)

224 (in 1970s money, when it worth 20 million

What?

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at March 01, 2016 04:19 PM (QPdNE)

225 Who among us has not been flamethrowered by AtC at one time or another?

I got boobybounced by her one time when she was on the Trampoline.

Does that count?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at March 01, 2016 04:19 PM (ptqRm)

226 95% of "lifelong Republicans" who swear they will never vote for Trump haven't voted for a Republican in 20+ years. So I really don't give a fuck what they say.

-----------

That sounds like a completely legit stat. I'll go with it.

Posted by: SH at March 01, 2016 04:19 PM (gmeXX)

227 195
You have nothing to fear from Donald Trump in the White House

Posted by: Juan McAmnesty

I can guarandamnntee you that McCain is NOT saying that .

Posted by: Mortimer at March 01, 2016 04:19 PM (VDEzK)

228 I meant "But this is the way THEY are."

That is, you may think they are silly to bitterly cling to their (Liberal Mediated) Middle Class College Educated Respectability so forcefully, but this the way they are, and simply yelling "Virtue Signalling!" does nothing to change them or persuade them.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:19 PM (dciA+)

229 The GOPe refused to let new Republicans take over. Now they're going to take it in the neck.

Posted by: MTF at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (TxJGV)

I'm targeting a location somewhat lower . . .

Posted by: Count de Monet at March 01, 2016 04:20 PM (JO9+V)

230 216 Trump supporters are voting for the idea of Trump, not Trump himself. They've turned this guy into an Internet Superhero and any logic or history regarding him is dismissed for not fitting into their personal narratives on him.

They are literally voting a meme, a fictional character, into office.

---

Bingo.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at March 01, 2016 04:20 PM (Iuwxp)

231 Wasn't the conventional, assumed wisdom that DJT would NEVER win the nomination because his negatives were too high among (R)'s back in June? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Posted by: Mega at March 01, 2016 04:20 PM (hHFOx)

232 Posted by: troyriser at March 01, 2016 04:16 PM (UWlp+)

Exactly. This !!!eleventy!!!1!

The GOP needs to stop with the infighting and focus on voter fraud.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at March 01, 2016 04:20 PM (EVl8U)

233 There is a 3rd type of ruling class. Rule by violence and terror, like North Korea or ISIS. They don't need to compromise, they simply kill the opposition.

Posted by: zmdavid at March 01, 2016 04:20 PM (xqRaG)

234 Do you want your Leftwing President Deep Dish or Thin Crust?

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 01, 2016 04:20 PM (2cS/G)

235 He doesn't have to. All he has to do is bluster and holler Make America Great Again and the lemmings fall in line.

There is the world as you would like it to be, and the world as it is.

Between you and Trump ... who is more attuned with the world as it is?

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:20 PM (uURQL)

236 >>>America will be great again when we are manufacturing t-shirts and cheap toys again.

You misspelled, "power tools, hand tools, lawn mowers, televisions, water heaters, washing machines, dishwashers, lockers, bearings," and a bunch of other shit of which I've lost track.

Posted by: chiefjaybob at March 01, 2016 04:20 PM (vulYo)

237 In case nobody has mentioned it, McConnell and some Republican leaders in the Senate met with Obama, Reid and Leahy about the SC nominee and supposedly McConnell told Obama to shove it again. I realize this disturbs the narrative but good news nonetheless.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 01, 2016 04:20 PM (/tuJf)

238 Posted by: Christopher Taylor

Yeah, that was a joke.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 01, 2016 04:20 PM (0vdts)

239 jwest, I think that's right

and that's why the intellectual class chatters about "fascism," because they have no actual knowledge of how execs work in a world where wolves at the door are real

Posted by: Feh at March 01, 2016 04:21 PM (L3GKO)

240 That was an excellent article from Reihan Salam.

I always enjoy reading his stuff. He is savant-level smart. I am glad he's on our side.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:21 PM (lVU49)

241 I work next to Mexicans almost every day,never been raped yet.

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (fizMZ)

You are not a twelve year old girl, are you?

Posted by: Burnt Toast at March 01, 2016 04:21 PM (T78UI)

242 "...meanwhile he still can't be bothered to come up with any health care policy that isn't just ObamaCare with a new Golden T erected onto it. "

The last thing any candidate for any office should do is lay out a detailed plan on anything.

All that does is give the opposition something to rip apart and puts you on the defensive for the entire campaign.

Generalize, then after you're elected come up with a plan. That's how it's done.

Posted by: jwest at March 01, 2016 04:21 PM (Zs4uk)

243 Yes expressing a positive that a visibly hard working family was able to buy a house was terrible. Change your nic to Mr. Potter. And his ignoring the credit crisis included going to Congress multiple times to warn them of the potential crisis and presenting a written plan on recommendations to avoid it.

You will always be a self admitted fraud.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (UGLi1)

_____

Mr. Potter? WTF?
Bush fueled the credit bubble. If you want to play pretend and think he didn't, be my guest. The point about the Hispanic family was that he was boasting how working class people could live the American Dream. Yeah sure in a land of 0% down and 1% interest rates, why not? Gee who could have seen a crash coming?

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:21 PM (0LHZx)

244
"I've been asked to hold my nose and vote with the team too many times"
Oh, hell yes brother. I'll see you a Bush 1 and raise you a Dole.

Posted by: Pining4 at March 01, 2016 04:21 PM (Uwuaq)

245

Adam Carolla's Conservative Message: 'Who NOT to Vote For'

http://bit.ly/1TPARnK

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 01, 2016 04:21 PM (qCMvj)

246

Yet a few days, and thee
The all-beholding sun shall see no more
In all his course; nor yet in the cold ground,
Where thy pale form was laid, with many tears,
Nor in the embrace of ocean, shall exist
Thy image. Earth, that nourished thee, shall claim
Thy growth, to be resolved to earth again,
And, lost each human trace, surrendering up
Thine individual being, shalt thou go
To mix for ever with the elements,
To be a brother to the insensible rock
And to the sluggish clod, which the rude swain
Turns with his share, and treads upon. The oak
Shall send his roots abroad, and pierce thy mould.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at March 01, 2016 04:22 PM (evdj2)

247 Eagles signed Bradford for a two year deal

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:22 PM (fizMZ)

248 >>>If Trump does force alignment it will be clearly strictly along class lines ( Belmont vs. Fishtown to paraphrase Charles Murray).

===

It was coming anyway. Belmont has been sucking everything dry for a while now. And showing their ass for about as long.

...

but with all respect, Belmont is the place where people get married, stay married, go to church, stay off drugs, get jobs, stay employed, keep off government subsidies, and in short avoid all the sorts of social dysfunction which in turn makes them solicitous of government help.

Fishtown could learn something from Belmont.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:22 PM (dciA+)

249 There's lots of technical analysis going around about why Trump is winning, all sorts of "mood of people" this and "frustration with" that.

I disagree with it all for one very simple reason. It all implies that Trump supporters have examined issues, thought about them, and decided that Trump represents their beliefs and feelings about these issues best.

Ask any Trump voter and "what do you think" or "how do you feel" about any issue. If you get an answer, nearly 100% of the time it is the opposite of anything Trump has actually said or done or he has contradicted himself on the issue dozens of times.

No one is voting for Trump on the basis of policy, thought, ideals, or beliefs. They support Trump because he throws temper tantrums, he's not a typical politician, and he's entertaining.

He's the 2016 version of Obama. What record he has, everyone is ignoring. He says nothing of substance intentionally and takes every position on every issue so that someone will always hear something they like. Otherwise he is a blank slate on which people are pinning hopes and dreams and a marketing gimmick.

Posted by: Damiano at March 01, 2016 04:22 PM (XItbt)

250 Many refugees say they are now happy to trade a cold, heartless and lonely life in one of Europe's richest countries for the violence, insecurity and poverty back home. And they say they have realized, rather belatedly, that smugglers had sold them a pack of lies about big houses, well-paying jobs and the life of luxury they would find in Germany.

"I wanted to live in peace with my family as far away from war as possible," said Abdulla, a 37-year-old who had worked as a truck driver in Iraq. "But what I've seen in Europe is not what I dreamed about. It's not what [the smugglers] told me it would be."

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 01, 2016 04:22 PM (e8kgV)

251 I'm with Monsieur Moo Moo.

-------

That is the first step in re-evaluating your position on something.

Posted by: SH at March 01, 2016 04:22 PM (gmeXX)

252 David Duke is saying he never endorsed Trump? That's from Gateway Pundit, or Trump Central as I like to call it.
Posted by: Dr Spank at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (0vdts)
-------
David Duke did in fact say that he did not endorse Trump. He does recommend voting for Trump. He even mentioned Robert KKK Byrd having been supported for Senate President Pro Tem. by such leading figures as Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama which, for some reason, Republican candidates have never bothered mentioning much.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 01, 2016 04:22 PM (NUqwG)

253 How much of the electorate is the white supremacist
vote. Anyone have any numbers?

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. Blah, blah,blah at March 01, 2016 04:23 PM (WVsWD)

254 Any new people Trump brings to the GOP will be soon gone when they realize he is "just a bagel" (to quote Billy Flynn)

You do not grow a party based on bullshit and gold paint.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at March 01, 2016 04:23 PM (LWu6U)

255 I think I've decided I'm giving up on democracy. I'm going to become a royalist. Fuck this election bullshit. Let's get a king in there.

Posted by: Farmer Joe at March 01, 2016 04:23 PM (27Ws9)

256 Paul Ryan is saying that he'll support the nominee but he'd have to denounce "any group based on bigotry." How many times does Trump have to denounce David Duke and the KKK, especially when this whole kerfuffle was made up by MSM.

Word is that Hillary will appoint one of the Castro Chipmunks as her VP, whose Mom founded La Raza, FFS.

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 01, 2016 04:23 PM (r1fLd)

257 I see your Dole pineapple send raise you a McCain fry

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:23 PM (fizMZ)

258 But this is the way you are. You have no plan or plausible path to get these people on to your side except to insult them -- which is the same plan the GOPe has for you.

===

That's just how parties die, Ace. You're just witnessing it real time.

Got to pick up the kid. Night guys

Posted by: Bigby's Handbrake at March 01, 2016 04:23 PM (3ZtZW)

259 I think you underestimate both the allure of Trump in the general, and the base disgust for his opponent, The Hag.

Don't forget there are two other issues driving this election beyond a distaste for the old guard. That would be the economy and an aversion across both parties to all things Washington.

The Hag, by the way, IS Washington. She is precisely what people are stating they loath when on a bipartisan basis they consistently give Washington a rating lower than dental surgery.

The Hag is pulling numbers that are historically low. Their strategists are barking the turnout will be nowhere near what Obama received. In fact they fear even Independents who cross party lines will break for Trump.

This is obviously far from over and those who discount Trumps ability to win do so at their peril. You think people would have learned that by now.

Even the tenor of your article suggests a certain dismissive attitude towards those voting for Trump. It's as if you're trying to presage a disaster. That's the same tactic some conservatives are using- to demean what the voters want. "Oh Dear God, they don't know what they're doing."

Yes, I think they do.

I certainly fear some of the things Trump may do. But I learned to fear far worse things from Democrats, because they've actually done some of those things.

Ideally, I would like Cruz. But we're not going to get that. So I'll play thee hand I've been dealt, because the alternative is much worse.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 01, 2016 04:23 PM (GGCsk)

260 That was Charles Murray's point, by the way.

Not that Fishtown is awesome, but the exact opposite.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:23 PM (dciA+)

261 Every plan to get Trump voters to embrace conservatism that is tossed out there involves ridiculous self-defeating trade policy (these are the people who BENEFIT from cheap crap, you know how many brand new shirts I ever got growing up other than back to school?) or just straight payouts like the minimum basic income. If you have to float that kind of garbage to win them over, what's the point? What you end up with isn't identifiably conservative.

What they should have done was a series of symbolic political beheadings, toss out recognizable leadership figures (who would have softly landed with lobbying groups anyhow), and then pushed hard on border enforcement, and try to keep the working class in the fold without resorting to massive government handouts.

But I guess it's too late, and now the European-style handout competition can begin! Pick your ethnic team and root for those government goodies to come your way!

Posted by: cjw at March 01, 2016 04:23 PM (UJ59J)

262 71and let's be honest, trump may not be racist, but he's sure giving off a lot of racist vibes.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:00 PM (dciA+)

Yep, totes honest.

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, submariner at March 01, 2016 04:24 PM (3dOE/)

263 237 In case nobody has mentioned it, McConnell and some Republican leaders in the Senate met with Obama, Reid and Leahy about the SC nominee and supposedly McConnell told Obama to shove it again. I realize this disturbs the narrative but good news nonetheless.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 01, 2016 04:20 PM (/tuJf)

--------------------

Thanks for this. We need to break our focus from the primaries from time to time to be reminded that stakes are high in other areas of our nation's governance.

Posted by: Soona at March 01, 2016 04:24 PM (Fmupd)

264 You're afraid you're gonna get burned. You don't want to get racist splatter on you, as Scott Adams puts it. But if you were as televised as he is some of the stuff you say about MHP types and Ta-Nehisi Coates would get you tarred and feathered.

He's not a racist. It's patently ridiculous. He's got his hands on the throat of PC speech-policing and that's why you're seeing this intensity. If he can weather the next couple weeks he can't lose to Hillary. And it would be cool if those who grudge both the GOPe and the socialist machine would help him now, instead of waiting it out. Christie and Sessions did.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 04:24 PM (xuouz)

265 1. The GOP doesn't need to "learn", it knows and doesn't care.

2. The GOP can't decide which poison is worse, a conservative Cruz or a liberal Trump.

3. Rubio ain't Goldilocks and the rebellion if they put him or anyone else up will be destructive.

4. I'll wait. November is eons away and this is most entertaining.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 01, 2016 04:24 PM (3myMJ)

266 Class warfare?

The politics of division?

Welfare for Workers?

I and Communitarianism win!

Don't worry you'll pay for it.

Posted by: Hillary! at March 01, 2016 04:24 PM (mcm0N)

267 He's the 2016 version of Obama.
Posted by: Damiano at March 01, 2016 04:22 PM (XItbt)

But better.

Do note that Obama is in fact a 2 term president.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:24 PM (uURQL)

268 Ok Christie is a straight up awful example

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 04:24 PM (xuouz)

269 Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 01, 2016 04:16 PM (w4NZ

My husband didn't know who David Duke was !

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at March 01, 2016 04:24 PM (EVl8U)

270 Farmer joe- the king we have now isn't working

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:24 PM (fizMZ)

271 Hillary is the enemy.

Posted by: eleven at March 01, 2016 04:24 PM (qUNWi)

272 Fishtown could learn something from Belmont.

---

Elitist.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at March 01, 2016 04:24 PM (Iuwxp)

273 I like Ted and I think his path to victory lies in being a Conservative and putting out the Conservative message of self-reliance, getting government out of our lives and freedom. I think it's not only the best message, I think it's a winning message. I truly, truly hope Ted wins, I've put my money where my heart is.

But Ted will have a hard time struggling to get the message out through a hostile media. Look how hard Bill Whittle struggles getting his stuff noticed and he's one of our better communicators.

Trump, on the other hand, can command media attention and direct it like no one else in the field, on either side. AND his base of support includes people who will never vote for Ted.

There's a lot of mindless chatter (or mindful, depending on the source) of pundits that declare they will not vote for Trump if he's the candidate. My wife says she'll vote for Hilary instead and she doesn't like Hilary much. But each pundit is just one vote and I'm not convinced they have the power to sway anyone.

I expect Trump will sweep the election and he'll do it with or without conservative voters.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 01, 2016 04:24 PM (hR1Jj)

274
This to you is some kind of "airy theory" with no practical reality to it?

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:17 PM (dciA+)

--

I'm just saying that you are conflating "not intellectual" with "lazy."

There are many millionaire heirs who sat on their money and just lived the glittering life. It's pretty rare to have heirs leverage that into empires. That's why the saying is that rich families lose it by the 3rd generation.

Trump is not an original thinker. He doesn't sit and think up solutions like Marx or whoever. He'll go along with current wisdom of the day.

But when he wants to do something, he'll work hard to do it. Even in this primary, I think he's done more campaign travel and stops than anybody else.

Posted by: votermom at March 01, 2016 04:25 PM (cbfNE)

275 (these are the people who BENEFIT from cheap crap

----------

We are not going to get richer manufacturing more cheap crap.

Posted by: SH at March 01, 2016 04:25 PM (gmeXX)

276 I get the allure of voting for Trump, but I can't get past the nagging suspicion that, of all the candidates, he's the most likely to go full-dictator.

Posted by: holygoat at March 01, 2016 04:25 PM (ZgI/r)

277 Trump supporters are voting for the idea of Trump, not Trump himself.
They've turned this guy into an Internet Superhero and any logic or
history regarding him is dismissed for not fitting into their personal
narratives on him.

They are literally voting a meme, a fictional character, into office.

---

Bingo.

You kids are new to politics, huh?

Because this statement basically describes every political candidate supporter in history.

Posted by: Mortimer at March 01, 2016 04:25 PM (VDEzK)

278 Lee and Longstreet should have let me go to the right around Little Round Top!

Posted by: Gen. John B. Hood at March 01, 2016 04:15 PM (JO9+V)

There is some conjecture among modern historians that Lee suffered a minor heart attack either directly prior to or during the three-day battle at Gettysburg. Lee certainly wasn't feeling well and the symptoms describedby disparate sources during that time frameindicate at leastthe possibility of a cardiac event of some sort.

Illness would at least explain some of Lee's more egregious decisions during that battle. That a tactical genius of Lee's caliber would order a hopeless slaughter like Pickett's Charge begs for some rational explanation.

Posted by: troyriser at March 01, 2016 04:26 PM (UWlp+)

279 osted by: Tammy al-Thor at March 01, 2016 04:24 PM (EVl8U

But Trump is Trump; If he doesn't know the should know; Your husband can have a pass-- ;^) but you knew.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 01, 2016 04:26 PM (w4NZ8)

280 "260 I think you underestimate both the allure of Trump in the general, and the base disgust for his opponent, The Hag.
"
I saw something bizarre yesterday, a friend of my old man is a huge Sanders supporter. I haven't seen much of this elsewhere so I have no idea it's true. They hate Hillary, they are going to throw in with the GOP to deny her. I kind of don't think its remotely on the same scale as the #neverTrump stuff, but crazy to think you have a hefty chuck of each voting block trying to gift the election to the other side out of spite or conviction.

It sort of reminded my of the hillbuzz thing, but that never really amounted to what they were claiming. Again, still plenty of time to watch.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at March 01, 2016 04:26 PM (n/ogz)

281 Like the Bourbons, the GOP will learn nothing and forget nothing.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at March 01, 2016 04:26 PM (evdj2)

282 We'll see. I suspect it will be Hillary, Schumer, Barbara Boxer replaces Scalia and then the movement is going to revolve around the criminal revolt and not elected Republicans. When the patriotic American thing is to be a godless socialist sybarite then being a patriotic American won't count for so much.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 04:26 PM (EioIi)

283 10 part of the Democrats' working class voters are coming to the GOP, and part of the GOP's white collar/college educated voters are going to stop voting, and eventually make peace with a somewhat changed Democrat party.

They will be the "neolibs," and will change the Democrat party a little bit, but not nearly as much as the neocons changed the GOP.

The Bien Pensant vs. the Hoi Polloi.

Those who have properly virtue-signaled vs. those who have not and can not.

The Eternals vs. The Brutals.

Posted by: Hikaru at March 01, 2016 04:26 PM (WDCYi)

284 Trump is a billionaire but acts like a regular down at Rizzo's who made good, orders the filet mignon, and leaves a big tip

everyone else acts like a stranger, clawed their way to the top, orders the unpronounceable, and leaves 15% precisely, not one penny more

just a theory

Posted by: Feh at March 01, 2016 04:26 PM (L3GKO)

285 Trump can't go full dictator. That's a false choice.

The media would never allow that.

Posted by: eleven at March 01, 2016 04:27 PM (qUNWi)

286
But Ted will have a hard time struggling to get the message out
through a hostile media. Look how hard Bill Whittle struggles getting
his stuff noticed and he's one of our better communicators.

That is a really excellent comparison. I'm jealous!

Posted by: Mortimer at March 01, 2016 04:27 PM (VDEzK)

287 I voted in the MA suburbs around noon today. I saw the usual number of signs and supporters for down-ticket races. In the presidential race, there were no signs or supporters for Hillary, Bernie, Cruz, Rubio, Kasich or Carson, but there were a couple of Trump signs and supporters, including a 20 year old in Uncle Sam attire.

I wouldn't be surprised if MA gives Trump his first victory.with more than 50% of the vote.

Posted by: cool breeze at March 01, 2016 04:27 PM (ckvus)

288 Word is that Hillary will appoint one of the Castro Chipmunks as her VP, whose Mom founded La Raza, FFS.

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 01, 2016 04:23 PM (r1fLd)

Speak American, "The Race".

Posted by: Burnt Toast at March 01, 2016 04:27 PM (T78UI)

289 In other words he was perfectly content with presiding over a credit bubble.

I thought you knew how to read.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2016 04:27 PM (39g3+)

290 >>>I'm just saying that you are conflating "not intellectual" with "lazy."

having a plan is too intellectual for a businessman? Does he routinely have no plan but impromptu improvisation when he's building a building?

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:27 PM (dciA+)

291 The RINO class will vote for Hillary over Trump because they know Hillary will continue the gravy train. These assholes whine about Trump being fascist yet embrace corporatists. They are hypocritical fucks.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:27 PM (0LHZx)

292 "Like all highly educated and open-minded people, they absolutely refuse to even consider opposing viewpoints."
..............
A classic line Ace and so true. Point this fact out to one of these blue blood darlings and you will instantly trigger a defensive shield of denial and a hasty retreat to the confines of their gated green zone that dosen`t allow such a harsh observation.

Posted by: two of spades (promotion pending) at March 01, 2016 04:27 PM (g7vPw)

293 How much of the electorate is the white supremacist
vote. Anyone have any numbers?
Posted by: Tim in Illinois

Apparently enough that Trump thought it was not a good idea to offend.

"can you condemn the KKK??"

"I don't know anything about that (and later blames his earpiece)"

What scares the hell out of me is there are pockets of support in that community for him and Trump knows they support him. Trump can't seem to ever not like somebody that supports him.

Sort of like the bromance with Putin. Guy says one flattering thing about Putin and Trump becomes his #1 fan.

Posted by: Branson at March 01, 2016 04:27 PM (st1SS)

294 so where's the reliable data that Hillary wins in a walk?

I say she loses

Posted by: Feh at March 01, 2016 04:27 PM (L3GKO)

295 I get the allure of voting for Trump, but I can't get past the nagging suspicion that, of all the candidates, he's the most likely to go full-dictator.

Mainly because he's an actual leader.

Bernie? Pftth.
Hillary? Who has loyalty to her?
Cruz? Wonk, but not quite that.
Carson? Nice, no.
Rubio? The Establishment lackey? No.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (uURQL)

296 i'm only here for the tips on how to achieve happiness...

Posted by: redc1c4

Accept that the Republic is already dead and just doesn't know it yet. I guarantee you'll be happier.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (A/3fN)

297 an architect's plans are "too intellectual"

a business model is "too intellectual," too "airy"

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (dciA+)

298 My senator, "Jeff Sessions" came out for Trump? Guess y'all call him a RINO too?

Posted by: CSMBigBird at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (jsWA8)

299 >> Fishtown could learn something from Belmont.

Fishtown was created by belmont, and can only be destroyed if belmont shrinks gov. and forces people to be responsible for their own lives.

Most of the world is inherently socialists. Fishtowns around the world only ask "what are you doing for me," and belmont send money and social workers to appease while hey ship their gold to Switzerland.

The US was different. was.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (LWu6U)

300 Gonna tune out of here until all this blows over. 'Cause some of you are gonna flip your shit.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (oVJmc)

301 Morning guy and Dana Loesch both wondered how the KKK bugaboo got put around any Republican neck. Funny how that happened, the media is very slick.

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (fizMZ)

302 it is professionally suicidal to have anything to do with someone who gives off so much as a racist vibe

------------------------------

Unless you want to say something like 'white people suck' or 'white people are racist'. That is still okay.

Posted by: East Bay Jay at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (PvCxa)

303 277 Trump supporters are voting for the idea of Trump, not Trump himself.
They've turned this guy into an Internet Superhero and any logic or
history regarding him is dismissed for not fitting into their personal
narratives on him.

They are literally voting a meme, a fictional character, into office.

---

Bingo.

You kids are new to politics, huh?

Because this statement basically describes every political candidate supporter in history.

---

Sure, to some extent it describes most politics. But cult of personality is stronger in some cases than in others. Obama fits this description more than Hillary or Sanders, Trump fits it more than Rubio.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (Iuwxp)

304 289 In other words he was perfectly content with presiding over a credit bubble.

I thought you knew how to read.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2016 04:27 PM (39g3+)

____

Oh right. I forgot. The credit bubble was Clinton's fault. And Carter too.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (0LHZx)

305 http://tinyurl.com/zhghhf9

"The people who fear this are the ones who have never stood alone in a storm and survived. They fear being pressed to achieve on self reliance. "

Posted by: BourbonChicken at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (VdICR)

306 Gonna tune out of here until all this blows over. 'Cause some of you are gonna flip your shit.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (oVJmc)

The BS is getting thick.

Posted by: eleven at March 01, 2016 04:29 PM (qUNWi)

307 Voted, as if it matters, for Ted. Pretty steady here in Round Rock, TX but not overflowing and very few for the dim side as I was there. I don't make much of it either way.

Posted by: micky at March 01, 2016 04:29 PM (LBYzV)

308 I work next to Mexicans almost every day,never been raped yet.

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:18 PM (fizMZ)

You are not a twelve year old girl, are you?

Oh. We're going with open racism now?

*looks for Style Guide updates*

Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 01, 2016 04:29 PM (1xUj/)

309 230
216 Trump supporters are voting for the idea of Trump, not Trump
himself. They've turned this guy into an Internet Superhero and any
logic or history regarding him is dismissed for not fitting into their
personal narratives on him.

They are literally voting a meme, a fictional character, into office.

---

Bingo.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at March 01, 2016 04:20 PM (Iuwxp)

Gotta Love the Internet Geniuses who think they know what I'm thinking.... and why....

Posted by: Don Quixote at March 01, 2016 04:29 PM (RK8AH)

310 What scares the hell out of me is there are pockets of support in that community for him and Trump knows they support him. Trump can't seem to ever not like somebody that supports him.

This is plus, not a minus.

Why would you want to dance to the tune of the thought police?

Repudiating cuz RAYCISS is a weakness, not a virtue.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:29 PM (uURQL)

311 Hope not but See yah in December then Pappy

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (fizMZ)

312 The lovely,tolerant left.

http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/228035/

Posted by: steevy at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (B48dK)

313 Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:27 PM (dciA+)

LOL. Good point.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (w4NZ8)

314 Hell, after 2006, the GOP could have saved themselves if they embraced the Tea Party, but instead they dismissed them and even insulted them, so fucking smug. All they wanted was a focus on fiscal matters and they were called rubes and racists. Pathetic, so I hope they get what's coming to them : Pain.
Posted by: Dr Spank at March 01, 2016 04:04 PM (0vdts)

this was my breaking point

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (qCMvj)

315 he is in fact a conman,

A conman sells you nothing. Trump has at least delivered Yuge buildings.

f revolts starting from 2006 over the issue of amnesty.

I was revolted by the 1986 amnesty, passed out on Vic's lawn but revolted.

Posted by: DaveA at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (DL2i+)

316 >>Trump is a billionaire but acts like a regular down at Rizzo's who made good, orders the filet mignon, and leaves a big tip

>>everyone else acts like a stranger, clawed their way to the top, orders the unpronounceable, and leaves 15% precisely, not one penny more

>>just a theory

He's Al Czervik

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NofDnJldrE

Posted by: JackStraw at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (/tuJf)

317 " They support Trump because he throws temper tantrums, he's not a typical politician, and he's entertaining. "

If Trump wants to be on Mt. Rushmore (and he does), the day after he's elected he would get a few news crews together, walk into any federal agency, kick the first trash can down the aisle as hard as he can, fire two dozen people at random and tell whoever is left in charge that they have two weeks to straighten the place out or they'll be the next one out the door.

He would be a national hero overnight.

And maybe something would get done.

Posted by: jwest at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (Zs4uk)

318 Trump's racism comes in the form of scapegoating foreigners. That foreigners - Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese - represent the major threats to America, and that all we need to do is kick them out or otherwise limit their influence to Make America Great Again. It isn't the Mississippi Burning-style racism, it is the somewhat more subtle "blame the strange-looking people" type of racism.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (lVU49)

319

Trump's going to make another announcement.
Presser coming up.

hmmm...

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (qCMvj)

320 I think that a lot of people support Trump because they think "Hey, if my father gave me tens of millions of dollars to start my career, I could have been Donald Trump", they relate to him that way.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (0vdts)

321 >>and the rubes are drooling and screaming for the sale.

This is what we need more of.

Posted by: General Zod at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (Bdeb0)

322 302 it is professionally suicidal to have anything to do with someone who gives off so much as a racist vibe

------------------------------

Unless you want to say something like 'white people suck' or 'white people are racist'. That is still okay.
Posted by: East Bay Jay at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (PvCxa)

_______

All Lives Matter = racist

Only Black Lives Matter = not racist

Kill the Police = not only not racist, empowering and inspirational

Enforce immigration laws = fascist!!

America in 2016

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:31 PM (0LHZx)

323 " That a tactical genius of Lee's caliber would order a hopeless slaughter like Pickett's Charge begs for some rational explanation.
Posted by: troyriser at March 01, 2016 04:26 PM (UWlp+)"

Speaking as a rabid anti-Confederate, they took the wall and were repulsed. If their artillery had been as reckless and bold as Pickett they might have got lucky and Pickett could have taken that ridge.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 04:31 PM (EioIi)

324 Ace you don't bring your plan to the sales meeting.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 04:31 PM (xuouz)

325 298
My senator, "Jeff Sessions" came out for Trump? Guess y'all call him a RINO too?

Posted by: CSMBigBird at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (jsWA

If'n I was Trump.... it would be Vice President Sessions....

Posted by: Don Quixote at March 01, 2016 04:31 PM (RK8AH)

326 But neither of us are part of the elite, perhaps because both of our families came from the working class. Which apparently means we are knuckle-dragging Neanderthals. This pisses me off. I'd like to think someone in the GOP will read this, but I doubt if they're smart enough.

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at March 01, 2016 03:52 PM (FQKBL)

I have found that some of the most vehement Trump haters are the college-educated sons and daughters of blue collar people. (I fit into that demographic myself.) I've witnessed a lot of class anxiety among that crowd.

They fervently denounce "rednecks" and "ignorant know-nothings" who support Trump, in part, I surmise, because they have felt class conscious ever since they arrived at college and roomed with kids whose parents were solidly middle or upper middle class. They are trying desperately to distance themselves from their origins.

Posted by: Donna and V. (no ampsersands at the present time) at March 01, 2016 04:31 PM (u0lmX)

327 Trump's racism comes in the form of scapegoating foreigners. That foreigners - Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese - represent the major threats to America, and that all we need to do is kick them out or otherwise limit their influence to Make America Great Again. It isn't the Mississippi Burning-style racism, it is the somewhat more subtle "blame the strange-looking people" type of racism.
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (lVU49)

I don't see it like that.

I see it is pro-American.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 01, 2016 04:31 PM (qCMvj)

328 what am I, chopped liver - ?

Posted by: EITC at March 01, 2016 04:31 PM (6jceg)

329 Ugh. Meant to say "Trump fits it more than Cruz", Rubio does fit the same description with some types

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at March 01, 2016 04:32 PM (Iuwxp)

330 from a "Possible Trump VP" thread:

Peyton Manning announces retirement, removes Broncos hat, replaces it with "Make American Great Again" hat, signs on as Trump VP

ESPN offices burn to the ground in rage.

Posted by: brak at March 01, 2016 04:32 PM (MJuTN)

331 You don't bring anything to the sales meeting but some glossy marketing slicks and the rep with big tits.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 04:32 PM (xuouz)

332 I don't see the GOP establishment learning a single thing.

If Trump wins the primary and loses the general, they are going to say, see, you got what you wanted, a conservative, and he failed, now listen to your betters.

If Trump wins the primary and the general, it will be the end of the GOP as we know it. This is the most likely outcome, I think.

I don't think that candidates not named Trump can ape Trump's act and become winners. I think that Trump has some special set of skills - maybe it is just a competency stack as Scott Adams says - that allows him to pull off some things that others could not.

And, btw, I voted Cruz today, so there.

Posted by: blaster at March 01, 2016 04:32 PM (2Ocf1)

333 The Republican failure to defend the interests of working-class voters, and to speak to their hopes and fears, has made Trump's authoritarianism dangerously alluring.

"Trump's authoritarianism"? Bullshit. Critics of Trump love to do this. They will throw out a term, as a descriptor of Trump, with no backup whatsoever. I clicked over to the piece to see if reading the whole thing provided more context, but nothing.

Maybe it's me. Perhaps I don't understand the term.

authoritarianism
A form of government in which the governing body has absolute, or almost absolute, control. Typically this control is maintained by force, and little heed is paid to public opinion or the judicial system.
http://tinyurl.com/gthdrzl (Wiktionary)

That's supposed to be Trump? I suppose that it is par for the course for the crack writers over at Slate.

Fuck you.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 01, 2016 04:32 PM (R+30W)

334 318 Trump's racism comes in the form of scapegoating foreigners. That foreigners - Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese - represent the major threats to America, and that all we need to do is kick them out or otherwise limit their influence to Make America Great Again. It isn't the Mississippi Burning-style racism, it is the somewhat more subtle "blame the strange-looking people" type of racism.
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (lVU49)

______

Yeah China isn't a threat to America at all. In fact I wonder why even bother having a military anymore since nobody outside the country is much of a threat.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:32 PM (0LHZx)

335 "Speak American, "The Race"."

Touche. Duly noted

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 01, 2016 04:32 PM (r1fLd)

336 "It would not have been possible for us to take power or to use it in the ways we have without the radio".

Posted by: RadioE at March 01, 2016 04:32 PM (mcm0N)

337 So, news on two court cases today.

First, as I commented above, the judge has dismissed the eligibility case against Cruz.

Second, the case against Trump re Trump University can move forward

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 01, 2016 04:32 PM (8PbKi)

338 Trump apparently just said Hillary "lacks stamina", which sounds like a Trump version of the Ace/Free Beacon "she can't walk under her own power" joke.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 01, 2016 04:32 PM (KUTP5)

339 What I find amusing is that none of us know how any of the repub candidates are going to perform once they see the world from behind the Resolute Desk. Just sayin'.

It's a crap shoot any way one looks at it.

Posted by: Soona at March 01, 2016 04:32 PM (Fmupd)

340
Yet not to thine eternal resting-place
Shalt thou retire alone, nor couldst thou wish
Couch more magnificent. Thou shalt lie down
With patriarchs of the infant world - with kings,
The powerful of the earth - the wise, the good,
Fair forms, and hoary seers of ages past,
All in one mighty sepulchre. The hills
Rock-ribbed and ancient as the sun, - the vales
Stretching in pensive quietness between;
The venerable woods - rivers that move
In majesty, and the complaining brooks
That make the meadows green; and, poured round all,
Old Ocean's gray and melancholy waste,
Are but the solemn decorations all
Of the great tomb of man. The golden sun,
The planets, all the infinite host of heaven,
Are shining on the sad abodes of death,
Through the still lapse of ages. All that tread
The globe are but a handful to the tribes
That slumber in its bosom.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at March 01, 2016 04:32 PM (evdj2)

341 I agree with Ace that Trump v Hillary will be a blowout whatever way it goes. But let's face it if Hillary wins big ("IF") then country was ineffably doomed before now. You might as well track the event horizon to LBJ.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at March 01, 2016 04:32 PM (VdICR)

342 Grant vs Lee?

Ulysses or Ginger?

You guys slay me!

Posted by: Thanatopsis at March 01, 2016 04:32 PM (fiBHP)

343 300 Gonna tune out of here until all this blows over. 'Cause some of you are gonna flip your shit.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (oVJmc)

I think I might too.
Toodles.

Posted by: votermom at March 01, 2016 04:32 PM (cbfNE)

344 The Trump phenomenon is not a class issue. It has nothing to do with class (other than the self-assigned class of some). Trump isn't appealing primarily to "white working class voters", he's appealing to people who want to put America first. Trump is running on an attitude, not a class distinction.

The class issue stuff is all left politics. The right concerns itself with governance issues, for the most part.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 01, 2016 04:33 PM (zc3Db)

345 Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 01, 2016 04:26 PM (w4NZ

Trump certainly shouldn't randomly accept endorsements til someone checks it out, but do you really think he should have known who he was? I can't imagine him having the slightest clue. I can't think of any of my non-Southern friends who know about KKK crap.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at March 01, 2016 04:33 PM (EVl8U)

346 Russia's white. Russia's a threat. What's that called?

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 04:33 PM (EioIi)

347 >>If Trump wants to be on Mt. Rushmore (and he does), the day after he's elected he would get a few news crews together, walk into any federal agency, kick the first trash can down the aisle as hard as he can, fire two dozen people at random and tell whoever is left in charge that they have two weeks to straighten the place out or they'll be the next one out the door.

>>He would be a national hero overnight.

>>And maybe something would get done.

And two days later a NLRB would give those fired their jobs back complete with back pay.

Go ahead, try and fire one of our fine bureaucrats. You don't get to play The Apprentice with the feds.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 01, 2016 04:33 PM (/tuJf)

348 I can't trust or vote Ted Cruz, who has a 2-D profile in real life.

He lacks depth.

Plus, I only vote for candidates who attend all male foam parties.

Nanny Nanny Boo Boo
Stick Your Head In Rubio's Doo Doo.

Posted by: photographs at March 01, 2016 04:34 PM (xYNxg)

349 ESPN offices burn to the ground in rage.

Not seeing a problem with that.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 01, 2016 04:34 PM (KUTP5)

350 having a plan is too intellectual for a businessman? Does he routinely have no plan but impromptu improvisation when he's building a building?

--------------

I could take Trump more seriously if he truly was a builder and this great businessman, but great businessman don't normally lend their name to products being sold on late-night TV. I have yet to find Buffet's Investment Guide for sale at $39.99.

Posted by: SH at March 01, 2016 04:34 PM (gmeXX)

351 260 That was Charles Murray's point, by the way.

Not that Fishtown is awesome, but the exact opposite.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:23 PM (dciA+)

Belmont is subsidized and protected by regulations and cartels out the wazoo. Please.

Posted by: First-Rate Political Hack at March 01, 2016 04:34 PM (dH97I)

352 That foreigners - Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese - represent the major threats to America, and that all we need to do is kick them out or otherwise limit their influence to Make America Great Again. It isn't the Mississippi Burning-style racism, it is the somewhat more subtle "blame the strange-looking people" type of racism.

Yes, they are major threats to America.

So when you call it racist, are you asking us to ignore the threats because it's rayciss to notice?

Because fuck that PC-thought policing, even if you're a well-liked regular.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:34 PM (uURQL)

353 A small part of me wants Rubio to win the nomination just to see the cocked-pug faces of his supporters when the media successfully paints him as "Literally Worse Than Cruz Or Trump!"

Posted by: holygoat at March 01, 2016 04:34 PM (ZgI/r)

354 And Maryanne!

Posted by: Thanatopsis at March 01, 2016 04:34 PM (fiBHP)

355 You have to love how Obama was a mythical hero created by liberals, who by the way won two terms, but Trump, thus far with record turnout, popularity and demographics mix, is King of the Cretins, crowned so by his alleged party members.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 01, 2016 04:34 PM (GGCsk)

356 "It was not the Bush administration's economic policies that caused or
even contributed to the crash of 2008. Not even a little."

(cough) Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson (cough)

Posted by: torquewrench at March 01, 2016 04:34 PM (noWW6)

357 I think the record high turnout on the GOP side is being casually dismissed. The dems will most likely have a turnout issue with Hillary and this should be weighed a little bit more heavily into the calculations here. Now what happens to turnout levels once we have the nominee I do not know....

Posted by: Skeezix at March 01, 2016 04:34 PM (WnCSK)

358 This is plus, not a minus.

Why would you want to dance to the tune of the thought police?

Repudiating cuz RAYCISS is a weakness, not a virtue.
Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely

Actually it's a big minus.

If Trump doesn't understand that, he'll lose.

I don't think Trump is a white supremist, but he's got it in his head that he better not offend these people because he needs their support.

I remember Trump fans telling us he'll attract black voters. Good times.

My guess is the Republican candidate that doesn't dodge a question like "can you condemn the KKK" when asked in a 1 on 1 interview on national television will do better with black voters.

Posted by: Branson at March 01, 2016 04:34 PM (st1SS)

359 We've been kicking around for a few years now the notion of who is the RINO? Is it the Cantor/Ryan wing or is it, well, us?

Trump is that argument writ in yuge, classy like you wouldn't believe, flaming letters.

Here's a more appropriate question I think: To whom is representation owed? Because it is becoming more and more and more apparent that both parties, at least on the Federal level, appear to believe that only the technocrat class should be represented. If you work with your hands, if you make something other than out of words and zeros and ones, well, you just aren't actually quite the type to which we should listen, now, are you. Now, that doesn't hold if you own the company that employs the people who work with their hands. Of course not. You are Of The Body. But actual people who do actual labor? Tell me who represents their interests on the Federal level.

It's not just class. After all, there are a ton of plumbers and electricians who are doing better than the small firm lawyer or local CPA. It's more taking as gospel the notion that if your name is on your shirt and not the building, you're a failure.

I'm not certain there is a way out of this that isn't viciously painful. I will say, it's been shocking, in a very bad way, to see what people who should know better feel perfectly free to say about their fellow citizens.

I despair, I despair.

Posted by: alexthechick - love and despair bitches at March 01, 2016 04:34 PM (mf5HN)

360 attempted to manage the change,

They did manage to park the USSR's corpse, temporarily.
Now they're ignoring how pissed people are at the lousy job mgt is doing.

Posted by: DaveA at March 01, 2016 04:35 PM (DL2i+)

361 Trump's racism comes in the form of scapegoating foreigners. That foreigners - Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese - represent the major threats to America, and that all we need to do is kick them out or otherwise limit their influence to Make America Great Again. It isn't the Mississippi Burning-style racism, it is the somewhat more subtle "blame the strange-looking people" type of racism.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (lVU49)

Oy.

So much silliness wrapped up in one comment.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 01, 2016 04:35 PM (zc3Db)

362 Trump isn't racist and you know it, he's being called that because he's poking the media and the democrats, but most interestingly, establishment republicans in the eye.

This is the playbook.

I guess we'd rather have our theories and plausible deniability and be safe than all be on the same team and not be certain what the script is.

Aesthetics.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 04:35 PM (xuouz)

363 I'm done talking to people who don't see the daylight between racism and pro-american. The term racism has been used too much by people who are too restrained to call all political opponents pedophiles.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at March 01, 2016 04:35 PM (VdICR)

364 No, I really do work next to them almost every day, I work construction. They do work very hard but don't give me the jobs no one will do.
But I do not believe most are criminal ( other than being here illegal and identification fraud)probably not more in percentage than the resident population but I do not know for a fact.

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:35 PM (fizMZ)

365 Did my part - voted FOR Cruz today. Will vote for no other current candidate in the general - will cast a vote for myself if I have to, b/c I'm more qualified than anyone else but Cruz...

Posted by: KK at March 01, 2016 04:35 PM (5WKRz)

366 nice lines, grumpy

Posted by: Feh at March 01, 2016 04:36 PM (L3GKO)

367
Take the wings
Of morning, pierce the Barcan wilderness,
Or lose thyself in the continuous woods
Where rolls the Oregon, and hears no sound,
Save his own dashings—yet the dead are there:
And millions in those solitudes, since first
The flight of years began, have laid them down
In their last sleep—the dead reign there alone.
So shalt thou rest, and what if thou withdraw
In silence from the living, and no friend
Take note of thy departure? All that breathe
Will share thy destiny. The gay will laugh
When thou art gone, the solemn brood of care
Plod on, and each one as before will chase
His favorite phantom; yet all these shall leave
Their mirth and their employments, and shall come
And make their bed with thee. As the long train
Of ages glide away, the sons of men,
The youth in life's green spring, and he who goes
In the full strength of years, matron and maid,
The speechless babe, and the gray-headed man -
Shall one by one be gathered to thy side,
By those, who in their turn shall follow them.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at March 01, 2016 04:36 PM (evdj2)

368 I have yet to find Buffet's Investment Guide for sale at $39.99.

Posted by: SH at March 01, 2016 04:34 PM (gmeXX)

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/Section/id-817929.html

Posted by: First-Rate Political Hack at March 01, 2016 04:36 PM (dH97I)

369 "I'm done talking to people who don't see the daylight between racism and pro-american."

well said, me too

Posted by: Feh at March 01, 2016 04:36 PM (L3GKO)

370 My husband didn't know who David Duke was !
Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at March 01, 2016 04:24 PM (EVl8U)

----

Wasnt he one of the cousins on the Dukes of Hazzard??

Posted by: fixerupper at March 01, 2016 04:36 PM (8XRCm)

371 It isn't the Mississippi Burning-style racism, it is the somewhat more subtle "blame the strange-looking people" type of racism.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (lVU49)

It isn't real racism. It's cocktail party "omg Rachel is on the PTA committee and said a mean thing about Stephanie's daughter, do you think it's because she's an adopted Korean?" racism.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 04:36 PM (xuouz)

372 Prediction: if Trumpbwins in Novemeber McConnell will conspire with Barry to confirm a SC nominee before the inauguration.

Posted by: The Cookie Man at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (YW3BF)

373 More correctly, it is bigotry, not racism, but the two are related anyway.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (lVU49)

374 It's so ironic. The anti-Trump peeps portray Trump supporters as narrow minded rubes who don't understand the world. Then turn right around and make generalizations like China isn't a threat and illegals have no negative impact on the country.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (0LHZx)

375 I will say this and then I will end comments on Trump. I think he has pluses and minuses, but saying that he didn't know who David Duke was (Really??!!) and he had to see a list before he would disavow anyone and that his earpiece wasnt working while still repeating the name David Duke four times is just disingenuous.Posted by: FenelonSpoke

Fool. Look at the video. I have. Half a dozen times. David Duke never endorsed him. Trump repudiated any endorsement the day before. He's not sure who the fck CNN is referring to.

Too many people are letting the MSM get away with murder. Again. And again. And again.

Posted by: mega machines at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (fbovC)

376 "A small part of me wants Rubio to win the nomination just to see the
cocked-pug faces of his supporters when the media successfully paints
him as 'Literally Worse Than Cruz Or Trump!'"

It would be funny as hell to see the expression on Mario's face when the media, who showed absolutely no interest in following up on Obama's down-low visits to "Man's Country" in Chicago, suddenly discover a newfound focus in digging up old gay-cruising rumors.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (noWW6)

377 10 >> My cat could beat the Hildebeast.

Posted by: Soona

Yeah, and I (and many others) thought we could run a ham sandwich against TFG in 2012; we now know how that worked out.

Posted by: GnuBreed at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (gyKtp)

378 Oh right. I forgot. The credit bubble was Clinton's fault. And Carter too.

I mean, you clearly are conversant with the English language. Maybe its just a comprehension issue. Comfortable with words, maybe.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (39g3+)

379 but do you really think he should have known who he was?

Yes; I knew and I'm not a Southerner.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (w4NZ8)

380 The class issue stuff is all left politics. The right concerns itself with governance issues, for the most part.

The *right* does. The *Republican Party*, by and large, is orbiting Planet Leftoid and the orbit is decaying.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (KUTP5)

381 Posted by: blaster at March 01, 2016 04:32

Good for you on all counts.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (3myMJ)

382 Why do only Republican candidates have to explain why people support them, or disavow them? I'd tell the media to fuck off and go ask them.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (0vdts)

383 This reminds me of being in a hole when the tank is coming, and one guy loses his nerve then tries to run.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 01, 2016 04:38 PM (GGCsk)

384 "My guess is the Republican candidate that doesn't dodge a question like "can you condemn the KKK" when asked in a 1 on 1 interview on national television will do better with black voters."

And my guess is that a Republican candidate who does better at resisting BS "when did you stop beating your wife" questions will do better with ALL voters.

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 01, 2016 04:38 PM (r1fLd)

385 Go ahead, try and fire one of our fine bureaucrats. You don't get to play The Apprentice with the feds.

Why not? Reagan did.
Air Traffic Controllers shit bricks.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2016 04:38 PM (+058L)

386 The RINO class will vote for Hillary over Trump because they know Hillary will continue the gravy train. These assholes whine about Trump being fascist yet embrace corporatists. They are hypocritical fucks.Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:27 PM (0LHZx)

Trump really is a fascist. He means to rule, not govern. And corporatism is aminor variantof Mussolini-style fascism. In such a system, those close to power profit; those not, don't.So ifyou've got the money you claim to have, Moo, you might have a shot at the big-time; that is, assuming you can pay the admission fee. The rest of us, not so much.

The good news is that Trump's wife is way hotter than Mussolini's mistress.

Posted by: troyriser at March 01, 2016 04:38 PM (UWlp+)

387 I despair, I despair.

---------

I don't, I don't.

I'm an optimist at heart.

Posted by: SH at March 01, 2016 04:38 PM (gmeXX)

388 Trump is an asshole.

Posted by: maddogg, now certified infrequently vile at March 01, 2016 04:38 PM (xWW96)

389 Posted by: alexthechick - love and despair bitches at March 01, 2016 04:34 PM (mf5HN)

The Empress is a font of wisdom as always.
*renders tribute*

Posted by: votermom at March 01, 2016 04:38 PM (cbfNE)

390 My guess is the Republican candidate that doesn't dodge a question like "can you condemn the KKK" when asked in a 1 on 1 interview on national television will do better with black voters.

None of them are doing better than Trump. Your guess has little evidence in support.

You are trying to be nice. You are trying to be respectable. This matters more to you than beating the Left, so you demand your candidates roll over for the Left when challenged with the Rayciss Card.

This is not a recipe for victory, despite your assurances that this kind of pandering will win black votes.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:38 PM (uURQL)

391 365 No, I really do work next to them almost every day, I work construction. They do work very hard but don't give me the jobs no one will do.
But I do not believe most are criminal ( other than being here illegal and identification fraud)probably not more in percentage than the resident population but I do not know for a fact.
Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:35 PM (fizMZ)

____

Yeah about that...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/pe9oljy

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:39 PM (0LHZx)

392 Interestingly, the Democrats are preparing or starting to say the same stuff as the GOPe.

I find it fascinating that the poll leader is being denigrated and dismissed while we have two of the more dangerous candidates running for the Democrats.

How's anyone going to walk back their anti-Trumpism when he gets the nomination? And will they. Or will they then say that a big mistake has been made and either we should vote for some has been RINO rich guy (knowing how that's worked out twice before) or let Hillary (or Sanders) finish the job Obama started?

But somehow, everyone's 'principles' are sooo much more important these days because someone they don't understand they're plan and who doesn't mouth the same shibboleths of the past and who the Liberal Media keeps telling them how evil and rude and racist he is.

It seems that some would rather be right in their judgement of Trump because of their love for PC and diversity and all the feel good stuff and anti white guilt virtue signaling promoted by Liberals and really only are fiscal conservatives.

And that's mostly because it's human nature to think anyone who isn't doing well isn't doing well because of their own fault which isn't necessarily true because no one wants to admit that luck has more to do with anyone getting ahead than people are comfortable admitting cause then they'd have to admit that their success isn't all 100% their hard work and smarts.

There's a reason why our own party isn't as hard core as should be and that's because the voters who vote for them aren't as hardcore as they claim to be.

Remember the old adage; We're getting the government we've voted for?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 01, 2016 04:39 PM (Xo1Rt)

393 Russia's white. Russia's a threat. What do you call that chemjeff?

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 04:39 PM (EioIi)

394 Donald Trump: Al Czervik.

Pneumatic club launchers for everyone, will fit your bass boat too!

Posted by: DaveA at March 01, 2016 04:39 PM (DL2i+)

395 Prediction: ~~if Trumpbwins in Novemeber~~ McConnell will conspire with Barry to confirm a SC nominee before the inauguration.

Posted by: The Cookie Man at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (YW3BF)

FIFY

Posted by: blaster at March 01, 2016 04:39 PM (2Ocf1)

396 >> Unlike some, I object to Trump on a personal level

I'd say 90% of people who object to Trump do so for those same reasons. Even as a Trump supporter, I too have objections with him on a personal level. I simply do not agree that he's a conman however. Imperfect in many ways, but not engaged in an intentional deception.

Posted by: Rastus at March 01, 2016 04:39 PM (tV5gR)

397 Trump isn't racist and you know it, he's being called that because he's poking the media and the democrats, but most interestingly, establishment republicans in the eye.

This is the playbook.

I guess we'd rather have our theories and plausible deniability and be safe than all be on the same team and not be certain what the script is.

Aesthetics.
Posted by: Ghost of kari

I don't think he's a racist, but he's playing a very stupid game to make that point.

Imagine if Trump had simply said "of course I condemn the KKK and David Duke, let me know when you ask Hillary if she'll condemn the Black Panthers"

That would be the mic drop moment, not "I don't know who they are"

Posted by: Branson at March 01, 2016 04:40 PM (st1SS)

398 >>And two days later a NLRB would give those fired their jobs back complete with back pay.

My guess is that the NLRB is on the short list for "first to see the trashcan-kicking penalty play."

Posted by: General Zod at March 01, 2016 04:40 PM (Bdeb0)

399 352
That foreigners - Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese - represent the major
threats to America, and that all we need to do is kick them out or
otherwise limit their influence to Make America Great Again. It isn't
the Mississippi Burning-style racism, it is the somewhat more subtle
"blame the strange-looking people" type of racism.

Yes, they are major threats to America.

So when you call it racist, are you asking us to ignore the threats because it's rayciss to notice?

Because fuck that PC-thought policing, even if you're a well-liked regular.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:34 PM (uURQL)

Its the new 1984 crap.... brought over from the Left...Patriotism, is now Racism. Citizenship does not matter. Those who BUILT this damn country, are not entitled to its benefits, while those who break the law to be here, are.

Posted by: Don Quixote at March 01, 2016 04:40 PM (RK8AH)

400 And two days later a NLRB would give those fired their jobs back complete with back pay.

Go ahead, try and fire one of our fine bureaucrats. You don't get to play The Apprentice with the feds.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 01, 2016 04:33 PM (/tuJf)

Why, it would take nearly unlimited hubris, and a willingness to attack without pause, discretion, or remorse, in order to start hacking apart the the federal bureaucracy.

If only this candidate existed. If only the public were ready to support such a person.

Perhaps if we offer up another burnt CPAC offering our savior will appear. He'll be young and slightly ethnic and well-spoken. A real winner.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 04:40 PM (xuouz)

401 Notice it's only R's who have to disavow supporters

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:40 PM (fizMZ)

402 The fuckers who made David Duke relevant again are worse than Jerry Springer.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at March 01, 2016 04:40 PM (VdICR)

403 Trump is a jerk but not a fascist. I wish people would stop throwing that term around as if its the equivalent of "tyrant." Fascism has a very specific meaning that is much different than just "guys who are oppressive dictators."

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2016 04:40 PM (39g3+)

404 >>>No, we've had a weaselly dip-shit for 8 years. We need an ass-hole to straightened this shit out.

Posted by: Hayao at March 01, 2016 04:06 PM (w/bVh)

***

No. We need a dick. For reasons adequately explained in the documentary "Team America: World Police".

Posted by: An Poc ar Buile at March 01, 2016 04:40 PM (bpn7O)

405 325
298

My senator, "Jeff Sessions" came out for Trump? Guess y'all call him a RINO too?

Posted by: CSMBigBird at March 01, 2016 04:28 PM (jsWA

Not me. I'd call him gullible.
Other than the alien wall, is he a strong conservative? I'm asking because I really don't know much about him at all.

Posted by: Mimzey at March 01, 2016 04:40 PM (aRUb8)

406 More correctly, it is bigotry, not racism, but the two are related anyway.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (lVU49)

"More correctly"?? LOL. You weren't even in the ballpark of "correct" to start with. But, maybe, if you repeat the same BS over and over and over and over you will attain correctness via attrition?

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 01, 2016 04:40 PM (zc3Db)

407 dear william and grumpy:

"Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."

1 Corinthians 15

Posted by: Feh at March 01, 2016 04:40 PM (L3GKO)

408 Posted by: mega machines at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (fbovC)

Please don't call me a fool; I'm not-mostly. He apparently repudiated him in the past, but now he doesn't remember who he is.

I will repeat again. It's best, IMO not to call people names who disagree with your POV and in this case don't support Trump; I have repeatedly said there are many fine Trump supporters. If I make a negative comment about Trump I'm not talking about the supporters.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 01, 2016 04:41 PM (w4NZ8)

409
I see Hillary picking Castro as her VP and blowing out Trump and whoever he picks.
Would love to be wrong, but Trump is just a bridge too far for too many.

Posted by: Tilikum KAW LLC at March 01, 2016 04:41 PM (uhftQ)

410 The class issue stuff is all left politics. The right concerns itself with governance issues, for the most part.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 01, 2016 04:33 PM (zc3Db)

You need not be a Marxist to recognize that there are class differences and that people feel anxious and insecure if they have moved from the blue collar to the middle class. They are afraid of falling back down the ladder.

I think the left in this country plays the race card even more than the class one. You can't say racial differences are nonexistent just because it's a matter the left exploits.

Posted by: Donna and V. (no ampsersands at the present time) at March 01, 2016 04:41 PM (u0lmX)

411 Posted by: KK at March 01, 2016 04:35 PM (5WKRz)

--------------------

I'm trying to think of a good expression to use here but the one that predominates is, Pride will eventually kill you.

Posted by: Soona at March 01, 2016 04:41 PM (Fmupd)

412 One nice thing about GOPe and the anti-Trump media is that it's going to become tiring. GOPe is fighting so hard and viciously, it steals the thunder away from Hillary. What's she going to say, he's a member of the KKK? LOL, ok, been there, done that. Nobody that matters cares or is being persuaded in any way.

Posted by: Rastus at March 01, 2016 04:41 PM (tV5gR)

413

I wish Cruz would call a Press Conference to trump Trump's end of night Press Conference.

He simply wants to steal the results headlines late tonight.

Cruz should counter with his own.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 01, 2016 04:41 PM (qCMvj)

414 Media : Can you condemn the KKK?
Trump : You mean the organization started by Democrats to harass, threaten and kill black folks? Sure.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 01, 2016 04:41 PM (0vdts)

415 What is Trump's press conference about?

Posted by: IC at March 01, 2016 04:41 PM (a0IVu)

416 "[Trump] is in fact a conman, and his lifelong liberal orientation guarantees he will always bow to liberal pressure and take the liberal path of least resistance . . . it seems probable that other candidates for all levels of office will realize I can do that too and run on a platform that promises the eternal establishment class less and promises the working class -- apparently 53% of the GOP, I think I just read -- a great deal more."

In other words, super-Establishmentarians: where instead of promising some things and giving us crumbs, they promise us everything and give us nothing.

Every man, woman, and child 35 years and older should run for office. The only good thing is if Trump wakes people up to the idea that there is nothing special about those they label the Establishment.

Posted by: Crispian at March 01, 2016 04:41 PM (rY+Q1)

417 "Prediction: if Trump wins in Novemeber McConnell will conspire with Barry to confirm a SC nominee before the inauguration."

Having a guy who holds a grudge can sometimes be useful. It would not displease me to see the Shy Turtle burn his bridges with the new incoming POTUS right away, and then realize what a major mistake he had just made.

Trump really could address himself to the rank and file in Congress and say, hey, I'll work with whomever you send over here as the House and Senate bosses. But what kind of a working relationship do you want? Cold and formal, or warm and congenial? If you send the existing guys, you ain't getting congeniality.

I don't know if that would induce the heavily RINOfied Republican Senate to dump McCornhole, but the House might well get rid of Lyin' Ryan.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 01, 2016 04:42 PM (noWW6)

418 And two days later a NLRB would give those fired their jobs back complete with back pay.

The executive department controls the NLRB. They choose who is in charge there, etc. Unless he's a knucklehead like Bush, Trump could prevent that.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2016 04:42 PM (39g3+)

419 Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (lVU49)

I don't see it like that.

I see it is pro-American.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 01, 2016 04:31 PM (qCMvj)

Me, too. He'd be against the foreigners even if they were all blue-eyed blonde Brits. It's them taking American jobs that he's opposed to, not their ethnicity.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at March 01, 2016 04:42 PM (EVl8U)

420 David Duke story.

I was in New Orleans for work the day before the election between the Convicted Crook and David Duke, the white supremacist, when an ad came on the TV while I was getting dressed. At first I thought it was some wild parody, but then it made sense. The guy in the ad was saying that you have to vote for the Convicted Crook, and not David Duke, because if David Duke got elected "the quality out-of-state minority athlete wouldn't come and play football for LSU."

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 01, 2016 04:42 PM (r1fLd)

421 >>That would be the mic drop moment, not "I don't know who they are"

Disagree. The "drop the mic moment" is only that because you say what's not expected. Bootlicking the talking head is called the "got third in the primary moment."

Posted by: General Zod at March 01, 2016 04:42 PM (Bdeb0)

422 >> Trump is a jerk but not a fascist. I wish people would stop throwing that term around as if its the equivalent of "tyrant." Fascism has a very specific meaning that is much different than just "guys who are oppressive dictators."

Yep

Posted by: Rastus at March 01, 2016 04:42 PM (tV5gR)

423 "If I make a negative comment about Trump I'm not talking about the supporters."

No such thing. You're attacking everybody, because you are a rabid sheeple. And two things about your complaint: how DARE you, and So What? s/

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 04:42 PM (EioIi)

424 And two days later a NLRB would give those fired their jobs back complete with back pay.

My guess is that the NLRB is on the short list for "first to see the trashcan-kicking penalty play."
Posted by: General Zod

Trump to NLRB: "
Please point out in the Constitution where it authorizes the NLRB. Show your work."

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2016 04:42 PM (+058L)

425 And I'll trot out my tired theory once more "What makes you think the GOPe even wants to win these elections?"

Mitch and company had a cozy life being the minority party, I think they would just love to go back to that. Its only the new electees from purple states that have any worries and even they probably expect they can get cozy lobbyist jobs.

Posted by: Palerider at March 01, 2016 04:42 PM (dkExz)

426 Had a tough time getting past the headline with Salem's demonization of the Kochs as if they're the big problem with the GOP these days.

Posted by: mig0 at March 01, 2016 04:43 PM (zpJBl)

427 No. We need a dick. For reasons adequately explained in the documentary "Team America: World Police".
Posted by: An Poc ar Buile at March 01, 2016 04:40 PM (bpn7O)

And we know this dick is functional. Lookit Ivanka.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:43 PM (uURQL)

428 Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (0LHZx

Allegations you can't back up.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at March 01, 2016 04:43 PM (UGLi1)

429 I don't think he's a racist, but he's playing a very stupid game to make that point.

Imagine if Trump had simply said "of course I condemn the KKK and David Duke, let me know when you ask Hillary if she'll condemn the Black Panthers"

That would be the mic drop moment, not "I don't know who they are"
Posted by: Branson at March 01, 2016 04:40 PM (st1SS)

He already did at his press conference with Christie literally three days before. It's on tape.

He refused to play the "we must condone your associations" game with the media. Now they've tripled down when he was on record already having said exactly what they're asking.

And he's also since come out and disavowed him, repeatedly.

They're caught lying and conflating before and after the fact. And the public loves them this he said she said shit.

Guess who has a lower approval rating than Trump? The media.

He's sawing away on these dumb fucks like he's headed down to Georgia a-lookin for a soul to steal.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 04:43 PM (xuouz)

430 If David Duke was running minority policy instead of the Leftards, I wonder whether blacks would be better off, worse, or the same. I don't see how he could do any worse. The more Democrats they vote in, the worse off they get. Repeat as needed.

Posted by: maddogg, now certified infrequently vile at March 01, 2016 04:43 PM (xWW96)

431 What is Trump's press conference about?
Posted by: IC at March 01, 2016 04:41 PM (a0IVu)

dunno, it's at 9pm I think they said

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 01, 2016 04:43 PM (qCMvj)

432 ♫ Trump killed the GOP whores! ♫

Posted by: the buggles at March 01, 2016 04:43 PM (WOyz5)

433 Trump needs to take this ridiculous racism shit that his opponents are selling and turn it into a positive.

He needs to step up in a press conference and say that "Black lives don't matter any more than any other lives."

He would be a national hero for saying that.

Let him spend 30 minutes talking about how people of different races got along much better before Obama.

49 state sweep.

Posted by: jwest at March 01, 2016 04:43 PM (Zs4uk)

434 Leaving work now, to go vote for Trump here in the Old Dominion, since I'm such an incredible low information voter. Toodles, indeed.

Posted by: rightwingva at March 01, 2016 04:43 PM (12N38)

435 Jerry Falwell Jr's endorsement of Trump shocked me.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at March 01, 2016 04:43 PM (EVl8U)

436 Isn't it interesting how MSNBC, GOPe, DNC and Faux News talking point about Trump are almost indistinguishable? It's almost as if the establishment is scared shitless or something.

But yeah, keep voting for Mitch McConnell's boys. I'm sure in 2071 they'll find a hill to die on.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:44 PM (0LHZx)

437 >>Why, it would take nearly unlimited hubris, and a willingness to attack without pause, discretion, or remorse, in order to start hacking apart the the federal bureaucracy.

It would also take someone who is big of futile gestures because until the laws are changed you aren't firing a huge percentage of federal workers short of catching them on camera eating a baby. Even then, probably a loophole that protects them.

Did you see what happened to those 2 VA execs who were convicted of padding their pay? Yep, reinstated with back pay.

Sorry, Trump isn't Superman and he's not going to magically tear down the bureaucracy.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 01, 2016 04:44 PM (/tuJf)

438 W got the economic conservatives to keep quiet for a couple days while he pushed TARP thru. He knew that if the opposition had a week the pro TARP side would have lost their support. It's because of Bush we have ever bigger banks who will fail only when the US itself fails (cause and effect).

Posted by: East Bay Jay at March 01, 2016 04:44 PM (PvCxa)

439 91 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 01, 2016 04:04 PM (8PbKi)
----
Once again, not decided on the merits - "Judge Maureen Ward Kirby of the Cook County Circuit Court dismissed the complaint brought by Lawrence Joyce, because he failed to properly serve Cruz and members of the Illinois State Board of Elections as required by law".

Game ends on a penalty flag.

Posted by: SaltyDonnie at March 01, 2016 04:44 PM (i6shs)

440 The ethic against racism is as important to this class as it is to the
liberals, and it is professionally suicidal to have anything to do with
someone who gives off so much as a racist vibe.

This classes children don't get stabbed at their school.

Posted by: DaveA at March 01, 2016 04:44 PM (DL2i+)

441 Yes, they are major threats to America.

So when you call it racist, are you asking us to ignore the threats because it's rayciss to notice?

Because fuck that PC-thought policing, even if you're a well-liked regular.

No, that isn't what I'm saying.

Of course Mexican immigration and Muslim terrorism and Chinese trade pressure represent major challenges to this country. It's not racist to notice this. The bigoted part is to focus on these problems almost to the exclusion of all others, and to build a campaign that strongly suggests that if we only got rid of the foreigners, that America would be great again.

For instance, take illegal immigration. Trump's position is to build a wall to keep the illegals out. That is great. But when does Trump talk about going after the employers who hire illegal labor? He spends far less time talking about that. (In fact, he WAS an employer who hires illegal labor, but this is excused away.) He places the problem of illegal immigration directly into the laps of the illegals (foreigners) themselves, and mostly ignores the problem of the employers (Americans). That's the troubling part.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:44 PM (lVU49)

442
Sure, to some extent it describes most politics. But cult of
personality is stronger in some cases than in others. Obama fits this
description more than Hillary or Sanders, Trump fits it more than Rubio.

Oh but of course!

It always describes the other guys' candidate.

Always.

Nobody wants to get sold. But everybody gets sold.

Posted by: Mortimer at March 01, 2016 04:44 PM (VDEzK)

443 Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 04:42 PM (EioIi)

You're barking up the wrong tree, son.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at March 01, 2016 04:45 PM (EVl8U)

444 It's so ironic. The anti-Trump peeps portray Trump supporters as narrow minded rubes who don't understand the world. Then turn right around and make generalizations like China isn't a threat and illegals have no negative impact on the country.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (0LHZx)

Strawman stuff, Moo. I oppose your Bald Beloved because he's a straight-up demagogue. That his supporters can't see that he's a demagogue is disturbing on abouta thousand levels but I can't fault them for feeling the way they do.

Posted by: troyriser at March 01, 2016 04:45 PM (UWlp+)

445 Cuck tears are the best tears. Cry more.
Posted by: John J Hnosko at March 01, 2016 04:35 PM (5r7pe)

I'm going to just keep pointing at actual racists.

*points*

Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 01, 2016 04:45 PM (1xUj/)

446 What is Trump's press conference about?

America.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 01, 2016 04:45 PM (0vdts)

447 You've been sold scapegoats that are the cause of all your problems and a magical MaGuffin that will fix it by guys like Mickey Kaus who has such concern for you as he skips off to vote for Obama.

Now you know how Democrats have stoked the African American community into their second enslavement.

Reagan was a happy warrior and he did not peddle the notion of lack of personal responsibility. He didn't con people into the idea of external locus of control and that society and others (The Smart Set) were to be blamed for everything.

Posted by: RadioE at March 01, 2016 04:45 PM (mcm0N)

448 429 Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:37 PM (0LHZx

Allegations you can't back up.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at March 01, 2016 04:43 PM (UGLi1)

_____

See Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM as Exhibit A

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:45 PM (0LHZx)

449 437 Isn't it interesting how MSNBC, GOPe, DNC and Faux News talking point about Trump are almost indistinguishable? It's almost as if the establishment is scared shitless or something.

But yeah, keep voting for Mitch McConnell's boys. I'm sure in 2071 they'll find a hill to die on.

YEP! As soon as they have
The House
The Senate
The White House
ALL seats on the Supreme Court... Boy oh boy, will they ever turn this country around!!

Posted by: rightwingva at March 01, 2016 04:46 PM (12N38)

450 You know what? I'm remembering the last thread, where an oil company fooled you. This thread, where CNN fooled you.

Sorry if the word leaps to mind. I'll find some word that won't send you searching for some safe space.

Posted by: mega machines at March 01, 2016 04:46 PM (fbovC)

451

I wonder if Carson or Kasich drops and endorses Trump tonight. I can't imagine that being the case, but anything is possible.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 01, 2016 04:46 PM (qCMvj)

452 No, I really do work next to them almost every day, I work construction. They do work very hard but don't give me the jobs no one will do.
But I do not believe most are criminal ( other than being here illegal and identification fraud)probably not more in percentage than the resident population but I do not know for a fact.
Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:35 PM (fizMZ)

But other than that . . . .

We do real estate. If we forget to get a copy of a government issued id during a closing, we face major penalties. But, hey, someone here illegally who "borrows" a SSN? Ain't no thang.

Posted by: alexthechick - love and despair bitches at March 01, 2016 04:46 PM (mf5HN)

453 Trump is bald?That thing on his head has to be his real hair because there is no way he'd get a toupe that looks like a weasel.

Posted by: steevy at March 01, 2016 04:46 PM (B48dK)

454 Once again, not decided on the merits - "Judge Maureen Ward Kirby of the Cook County Circuit Court dismissed the complaint brought by Lawrence Joyce, because he failed to properly serve Cruz and members of the Illinois State Board of Elections as required by law".

Game ends on a penalty flag.

***

Gotcha

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 01, 2016 04:46 PM (8PbKi)

455 I heard on Reddit Trump wants to blow up the Moon.

I'm for it.

Posted by: eleven at March 01, 2016 04:46 PM (qUNWi)

456 Ace-You might consider some way you could pipe nitrous oxide in this thread ;^) or something to make people pass out for the next 48 hours at least.

I've had enough. Catch you on the next non Super Tuesday thread if there is one before the results come in.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 01, 2016 04:46 PM (w4NZ8)

457 >>He needs to step up in a press conference and say that "Black lives don't matter any more than any other lives."

He already did that, just the other day: "I'll say it only once: All lives matter."

Posted by: General Zod at March 01, 2016 04:46 PM (Bdeb0)

458 Disagree. The "drop the mic moment" is only that because you say what's not expected. Bootlicking the talking head is called the "got third in the primary moment."
Posted by: General Zod

If Trump wanted to blast the person asking the question for it being stupid (which it was) then he would have gotten a round of applause.

Instead he cowardly dodged it. Then blamed his earpiece. That's the "bootlicker" move.

And yes, it was a stupid question but even Bill Clinton had his Sister Souljah moment and that was with a group he needed to win over.

Posted by: Branson at March 01, 2016 04:46 PM (st1SS)

459 "Trump really could address himself to the rank and file in Congress and say, hey, I'll work with whomever you send over here as the House and Senate bosses. But what kind of a working relationship do you want? Cold and formal, or warm and congenial? If you send the existing guys, you ain't getting congeniality."

See that's just not thinking it through. Thinking it through would be finding 10 Democrats who won't vote with Schumer 100% of the time and making them feel like pretty little princesses with lavish access and global perks. That would make McCain and Graham irrelevant. That would get legislation through our way. Saying "well, Schumer is anointed, gotta deal through him" is losing out the gate.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 04:47 PM (EioIi)

460 A leftist Supreme Court is very very scary

Posted by: Skip at March 01, 2016 04:47 PM (fizMZ)

461 The good news is that Trump's wife is way hotter than Mussolini's mistress.

Posted by: troyriser at March 01, 2016 04:38 PM (UWlp+)

And Trump goes up another two points.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at March 01, 2016 04:47 PM (T78UI)

462 I'm college-educated (master's) and have three children who are Phd's. I think we'll all end up voting for Trump. None of us are under the illusion he's a dyed-in-the-wool conservative. In fact, we all are somewhat appalled by him.

But we'll vote for him. The reason? He fights. And he's fighting the important fight of our day: the PC/media-shaming/Dem-twitter hordes who are destroying our nation from the inside out. Truly cultural suicide. Europe is leading the way.

Trump never buckles to the hordes. That's why he's getting our votes.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at March 01, 2016 04:47 PM (eXTZt)

463 Poor ace ....my family voted Trump today...The only one that will bring America back.
Teddy bear Ted...hmm mm not so much, Rubio slippers, the sweaty one, absolutely not.

Posted by: gonzotx at March 01, 2016 04:47 PM (eV1YV)

464 That his supporters can't see that he's a demagogue

Oh they see it. They just don't care

Posted by: Mortimer - millionth verse, same as the first at March 01, 2016 04:48 PM (VDEzK)

465 You need not be a Marxist to recognize that there are class differences and that people feel anxious and insecure if they have moved from the blue collar to the middle class. They are afraid of falling back down the ladder.

There aren't really classes in America. There is mobility in America which you point out above. Classes, in the Marxist sense, are almost immutable. That is their nature and why the marxists are all about classes. In America, one is only temporarily in some position (and the American ideal is that people all think that their children will do better than they did).

There is a confusion between the colloquial meaning of the word "class" (as a "set") and the marxist method of partitioning society into essentially unchanging classes.

I think the left in this country plays the race card even more than the class one. You can't say racial differences are nonexistent just because it's a matter the left exploits.

Posted by: Donna and V. (no ampsersands at the present time) at March 01, 2016 04:41 PM (u0lmX)

The left is all about Race, Gender, Class - and, contrary to popular leftist belief, now, race and gender are immutable (as they believe class is). Of course, the left also analyzes everything else in static terms, because the left's view of everything is in a static, unchanging world. That's the main problem the left has - or, at least, the main symptom they exhibit.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 01, 2016 04:48 PM (zc3Db)

466 446 Cuck tears are the best tears. Cry more.
Posted by: John J Hnosko at March 01, 2016 04:35 PM (5r7pe)

I'm going to just keep pointing at actual racists.

*points*

---

Oh goody. We're not having that thing about whether "cuckservative" is racist again, are we?

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at March 01, 2016 04:48 PM (Iuwxp)

467 For instance, take illegal immigration. Trump's position is to build a wall to keep the illegals out. That is great. But when does Trump talk about going after the employers who hire illegal labor? He spends far less time talking about that. (In fact, he WAS an employer who hires illegal labor, but this is excused away.) He places the problem of illegal immigration directly into the laps of the illegals (foreigners) themselves, and mostly ignores the problem of the employers (Americans). That's the troubling part.
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:44 PM (lVU49)

_____

Aren't you the guy who thinks e-verify is racist as well? You're disingenuous because you don't want any enforcement whether at the border or in the interior.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:48 PM (0LHZx)

468 The bigoted part is to focus on these problems almost to the exclusion of all others, and to build a campaign that strongly suggests that if we only got rid of the foreigners, that America would be great again.

You have shifted the goalposts.

Ah well, now it doesn't apply to Trump.

Cause Trump is all about Making America Great Again!

Trump Loves All of You! Trump Loves Muslims, and Mexicans, and Chinese! He does well with everybody! Even the poorly educated! And by the way he loves the poorly educated!

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:48 PM (uURQL)

469 and let's be honest, trump may not be racist, but he's sure giving off a lot of racist vibes.

Posted by: ace at March 01, 2016 04:00 PM (dciA+)

Say what?

Is this you ace, or is somebody using your name?

Not a big Trump fan, but calling bullshit on the racist vibe thing.

Give us a few examples.

Posted by: Blano at March 01, 2016 04:48 PM (NHQQx)

470 Trump to NLRB: "

Please point out in the Constitution where it authorizes the NLRB. Show your work."

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2016 04:42 PM (+058L)

/next meeting...
You didn't do what I asked? You're Fired...

Posted by: Don Quixote at March 01, 2016 04:48 PM (RK8AH)

471 A leftist Supreme Court is very very scary

------------

Yes it is, but maybe, just maybe, it will cause some pushback from Congress and the states.

Posted by: SH at March 01, 2016 04:49 PM (gmeXX)

472 "What is Trump's press conference about?"

Rumor is that it'll be Rick Scott, the FL governor, endorsing Trump.

Rubio will be out of a job when this Senate ends and has no chance of getting elected anything in FL. So he'll have to sell watches in Times Square, or go to K Street.

Rubio has badly played the last couple of weeks by telling dick jokes so that Romney & Co would fund him through the Florida primary. Used, once again.

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 01, 2016 04:49 PM (r1fLd)

473 Then turn right around and make generalizations like China isn't a threat and illegals have no negative impact on the country.

Strawman. I didn't say "China isn't a threat". I said that all America's problems can't be solved by just going after the foreigners.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:49 PM (lVU49)

474 A leftist Supreme Court is very very scary

Its an invalid court, is what it is. Any court filled with judges who ignore the law, constitution, logic, wisdom, and sanity no longer has any relevance or validity as a court. Its corrupted and should be not just ignored, but removed.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2016 04:49 PM (39g3+)

475 He needs to step up in a press conference and say that "Black lives don't matter any more than any other lives." He would be a national hero for saying that. Let him spend 30 minutes talking about how people of different races got along much better before Obama. 49 state sweep.Posted by: jwest

The other day, after the black lives matter people stood up and disrupted his speech he said, 'Let me say this once. All lives matter'.

Of course he repeated it.I watch a lot of live feeds and see stuff that doesn't make the news.

Posted by: mega machines at March 01, 2016 04:50 PM (fbovC)

476 pashmr @ 51: "Of all the anti conservative positions Trump pretends to have, anti free trade is the stupidest. Tariffs are the worst kind of welfare; easy to hide so hard to over turn. Sugar tariffs are a perfect example. They cost every family in America $400 in higher food prices to keep what, 3 wealthy agri business families going? The much better answer, and just as easy a sell, is to kill the EPA and unions. Millions of $20/hr jobs appear like magic."

Why, you elitist Ivory Tower cuckservative son of a bitch! They terk errr jerbs!

THEY TERK ERRR JERBS!!!

Posted by: Pastafarian at March 01, 2016 04:50 PM (LqrRo)

477 Isaac Asimov wrote a book called Nightfall about a planet that goes crazy when it gets dark.

This is like that.

Posted by: eleven at March 01, 2016 04:50 PM (qUNWi)

478 I heard on Reddit Trump wants to blow up the Moon.
I'm for it.
Posted by: eleven at March 01, 2016 04:46 PM (qUNWi)

The Moon has it coming. Can we really trust something that waxes and wanes?

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:50 PM (uURQL)

479 Aren't you the guy who thinks e-verify is racist as
well? You're disingenuous because you don't want any enforcement whether
at the border or in the interior.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:48 PM (0LHZx)
I never said E-Verify is racist, that's silly.
I want to talk about the issue of immigration as adults, and stop scapegoating foreigners. There is a reason why illegals come here, someone pays them under the table to keep them here.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:50 PM (lVU49)

480 "Strawman. I didn't say "China isn't a threat". I said that all America's problems can't be solved by just going after the foreigners."

Yeah you did. You said it was racist to mention China as a threat.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 04:50 PM (EioIi)

481
Not a big Trump fan, but calling bullshit on the racist vibe thing.

"How often do you beat your wife sir? It's an easy question to answer."

Posted by: Mortimer - millionth verse, same as the first at March 01, 2016 04:50 PM (VDEzK)

482 Media : Can you condemn the KKK?
Trump : You mean the organization started by Democrats to harass, threaten and kill black folks? Sure.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 01, 2016 04:41 PM (0vdts)

Bigot! Left out Catholics and Jews.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at March 01, 2016 04:51 PM (T78UI)

483 Yo!

Posted by: Yo! at March 01, 2016 04:51 PM (GwIKd)

484 Americans -- traditional, classical Americans -- are sick and tired of having feces flung at us. Sick and tired of OUR race and OUR culture being trashed from coast to coast. Sick and tired of not only not getting any credit for throwing this great party that everyone wanted to crash (i.e., founding the greatest free country in history), but that everyone else is trashing our furniture, poisoning our kids' minds against us, and vomiting in our beds. AND telling us WE'RE "bigots" if we object to THEIR bigotry.

EEE-NUFF.

Posted by: Beverly at March 01, 2016 04:51 PM (yAwFR)

485 I don't put out racist vibes but I have been known to put out negative waves.
Moriarty

Posted by: steevy at March 01, 2016 04:51 PM (B48dK)

486 Strawman. I didn't say "China isn't a threat". I said that all America's problems can't be solved by just going after the foreigners.
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:49 PM (lVU49)

___

Bullshit. That is exactly what you said.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:51 PM (0LHZx)

487 I heard on Reddit Trump wants to blow up the Moon.

FrankJ - Prophetic Genius

Posted by: Mortimer - millionth verse, same as the first at March 01, 2016 04:51 PM (VDEzK)

488 Trump is such a Fascist/FratBoi/Stunted Personality Victim/Malignant Narcissist, it's amazing to me that people fall for that shtick. It's as obvious as having a knock on the door, and when you open it, there's a guy in striped jail clothes, ankle chains and slippers, and he says "I'm from the your car company, and they want me to test drive your car....can I have the keys?". Trump supporters would hand them the keys.
Just my opinion...others may feel differently.

Posted by: Mimzey at March 01, 2016 04:52 PM (aRUb8)

489 "Belmont is subsidized and protected by regulations and cartels out the wazoo. Please."

Utter horseshit. Belmont pays for EVERYTHING. You can look it up.

Posted by: spongeworthy at March 01, 2016 04:52 PM (xB4nF)

490 It seems like it would have taken a lot less words to simply write Trump is a racist, apostate and probably the Antichrist who will plunge us into a dark abyss.

Honestly, I don't remember this type of garment rending and lamentation for Obama.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 01, 2016 04:52 PM (GGCsk)

491 Welfare for Working People is the nose inside the tent.

It's not welfare, it's only pretending to be welfare. It's actually economic stimulus. They want to dump helicopter money into the economy and tried to use the banks as a conduit, but that's proven to be problematic. The banks are just investing the money in the derivatives market, instead of making loans as intended. They're now going to sell direct stimulus. They'll call it everything from working welfare, to welfare reform. They'll claim it's conservative since just sending a check without the bureaucracy is actually shrinking government, but don't be mistaken it's direct stimulus and it's one of the four horsemen of the economic apocalypse.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 04:52 PM (LtMun)

492 How is Thad Cochran working out for the GOPE??

??

Posted by: Yo! at March 01, 2016 04:52 PM (GwIKd)

493 President Hillary.

I can already anticipate my hangover.

Posted by: Max Power at March 01, 2016 04:52 PM (q177U)

494 You have shifted the goalposts.

No I haven't. You misread my original statement. I never said that it's racist to note that Chinese trade pressure is a challenge. The bigotry arises when one focuses almost exclusively on the Chinese as being the reason why job creation is so terrible in this country right now. There are lots of reasons, and China is one of many. A big one, but not the only one.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:52 PM (lVU49)

495 Completely OT and meaning nothing, but I had never visited Trump's business website before and so I did so a few minutes ago. Holy hell! That's a shitton of properties.

He may be a Liberal and a douche, but he's clearly not stupid.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 01, 2016 04:52 PM (8PbKi)

496 Yeah I'm not buying The Donald as a con man
He builds buildings
He doesn't sell the Brooklyn bridge

After The Donald wins the nomination he will then turn his focus to the general

HRC has lost the WWC vote
The Donald will win the general with the WWC vote from both parties and he will do much better with the AA vote and huge Latino vote as well

Have a good night everyone
Trump

Posted by: ginaswo at March 01, 2016 04:53 PM (qxNrP)

497 454 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 01, 2016 04:46 PM (8PbKi)

----

Gotcha? How so? I'm a Cruz supporter (followed by Trump). Its a procedural decision, not a substantive decision. So its not dispositive of anything.

Posted by: SaltyDonnie at March 01, 2016 04:53 PM (i6shs)

498 If David Duke was running minority policy instead of the Leftards, I wonder whether blacks would be better off, worse, or the same. I don't see how he could do any worse. The more Democrats they vote in, the worse off they get. Repeat as needed.

Posted by: maddogg, now certified infrequently vile at March 01, 2016 04:43 PM (xWW96)

I've followed David Duke's career over the decades out of a kind of morbid fascination. Based on what I've picked up over the years, I'm pretty sure Duke's 'minoritypolicy'ideas would be far worse than any policies and programs the Democrats might advocate. I'm fairly sure his policy ideaswould, at some point, entail the purchase of large quantities of Zyklon-B, because David Duke strikes me as the sentimental sort.

David Duke tries hard not to appear evil and threatening. Now ask yourself: what kind of person needs to try hard not to appear evil and threatening?

Posted by: troyriser at March 01, 2016 04:53 PM (UWlp+)

499 I never said E-Verify is racist, that's silly.
I want to talk about the issue of immigration as adults, and stop scapegoating foreigners. There is a reason why illegals come here, someone pays them under the table to keep them here.
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:50 PM (lVU49)

_______

But you're opposed to e-verify because it's unfair or it could make mistakes or 1000 other reasons. Just admit you want open borders. Which is fine. But then don't turn around and say anyone who disagrees with you is racist. That's the Democrat playbook.

Oh wait a second....

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:53 PM (0LHZx)

500 Seems there is a lot of hand-wringing that Trump cannot win against Hillary based on polls in February. Well about that...

February, 1948 Truman 39% Dewey 47%
August, 1960 Kennedy 44% Nixon 50%
May, 1968 Humphrey 42% Nixon 36%
February, 1980 Carter 60% Reagan 31%
May, 1988 Dukakis 54% Bush 38%
March, 1992 Bush 44% Clinton 25%
October, 2000 Gore 51% Bush 40%
March, 2004 Kerry 50% Bush 44%
March, 2008 McCain 47% Obama 43%
May, 2012 Romney 48% Obama 44%

Posted by: Winning at March 01, 2016 04:53 PM (GHtJF)

501 I said that all America's problems can't be solved by just going after the foreigners.

Before that, you said it's racist to observe that Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese are major threats to America that need to be limited.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:53 PM (uURQL)

502 @26 Trump understood the very fundamental idea that most of the electorate could not give two shits about taxing capital gains, but care a whole hell of a lot about their job being either shipped to China or lost to a foreign worker that we import in.

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2016 03:53 PM (92Dmd)

Slicing like an atomic weapon, that. Political non-junkies are not going to dissect Trump's policies or rhetoric to see the classic New York Lib below the populist surface. All they know is they're sick of watching H1Bs replacing their and their neighbors' jobs while their kids' schools go to crap, and everything is more expensive but their pay, at best, is flat lo this last decade.

They're not the mouthbreathing knuckle-draggers the MSM and the elitist GOPe (BIRM) think they are, in other words.

Posted by: DocJ at March 01, 2016 04:53 PM (zrsn3)

503 Chemjeff, if what you post is ten minutes from what you really mean to post, why not go away and try again tomorrow when your posts are synchronized and you only say what you mean instead of the opposite?

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 04:53 PM (EioIi)

504 >>Rubio has badly played the last couple of weeks by telling dick jokes so that Romney & Co would fund him through the Florida primary. Used, once again.

The Koch brothers have plenty of employment for an enthusiastic young man out to make his way in this cruel world.

Posted by: General Zod at March 01, 2016 04:54 PM (Bdeb0)

505 A leftist Supreme Court is very very scary

The one that gave us 404Care?

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2016 04:54 PM (+058L)

506 Take the recent Trump/David Duke flap. Jake Tapper set it up and Trump walked into the trap, right?

I'm not so sure. Tapper tried setting it up, it was a trap, Trump did seem to take the bait, but then he did what he does best: he refused to bow to the media-shaming hordes. This is heroic, IMHO. The issue of race is destroying our nation from the inside out. Eric Holder taunts, "You're a bunch of cowards for not having a race conversation" the we see what a conversation such as he would endorse looks like: Chris Rock telling a bunch of Hollywood elites they're a bunch of racists. What is their rejoinder? They clap. They clap and clap and laugh and laugh then, as the night wears on, start wondering if their limos are ready to whisk them safely home to their gated community.

It's totally and completely rotten. Beyond rotten, it's hellish. And Trump refuses to have this Eric Holder kind of conversation. Who knows, if Hillary brings up race on the trail Trump might do what every single one of us has been begging someone to do: call her bluff. Call the bluff of every stinking, filthy, hypocritical white liberal on the race issue. Remember the pictures of the MS-NBC staff? All white. Let's bring the torch into the cave and see what else we find.

Trump will do it. No one else -- not Rubio, not Cruz -- has the courage and the leadership skills to do this.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at March 01, 2016 04:54 PM (eXTZt)

507 it's the end of the world as we know it

it's the

end of the world as we know it

and i feel fine..

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 01, 2016 04:54 PM (WTSFk)

508 i just don't like the boot in the face, forever.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 01, 2016 04:54 PM (WTSFk)

509 "What is Trump's press conference about?"

Rumor is that it'll be Rick Scott, the FL governor, endorsing Trump.

Rubio will be out of a job when this Senate ends and has no chance of getting elected anything in FL. So he'll have to sell watches in Times Square, or go to K Street.

Rubio has badly played the last couple of weeks by telling dick jokes so that Romney & Co would fund him through the Florida primary. Used, once again.
Posted by: Ignoramus at March 01, 2016 04:49 PM (r1fLd)

ah, interesting
thx

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 01, 2016 04:55 PM (qCMvj)

510 "I'd love to see a Poll of how many Trump supporters were the ones who used to go to TEA party rallies....

Posted by: Don Quixote at March 01, 2016 03:56 PM (RK8AH)"

Actually, still TEA Party. And our local TEA Party took over the county Republican Party after they dissolved and went bankrupt early in the 2014 campaign. It was the TEA Party that carried our county, defeating every Democrat candidate and ballot issue on our county's ballots. And we are not the only county in Colorado where the TEA Party took over the Republicans.

Which is why the State Republican Party took away the choice of delegates from Colorado voters. Steve House, our state chairman, banned any presidential preference polling and will pick the national delegates. The theory is they will be "uncommitted". In fact they will vote for whoever the RNC wants them to. Which for now is Rubio.

At our last TEA Party meeting, we polled 50-50 Trump - Rubio, with nothing but contempt for Rubio. And one Kasich vote which we think was fecal agitation by someone.

But the Colorado Republican Party has become the GOPe ideal, with no input by the membership into candidate choices because we would choose the "wrong" people. And you wonder why Trump has a following.

Posted by: Subotai Bahadur at March 01, 2016 04:55 PM (Ik8pP)

511 Bullshit. That is exactly what you said.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:51 PM (0LHZx)

This is what I wrote:

Trump's racism comes in the form of scapegoating foreigners. That
foreigners - Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese - represent the major threats to
America, and that all we need to do is kick them out or otherwise limit
their influence to Make America Great Again.

Note the bolded portion. That is the portion that I believe constitutes the scapegoating.

No one disagrees that Chinese trade pressure costs Americans jobs.

The scapegoating part is when the blame for poor job creation is placed squarely on the Chinese.

I will accept your apology now.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:55 PM (lVU49)

512 I'm old enough to remember how they said Reagan was going to blow up the world with nuclear weapons and we couldn't trust an actor with his finger on the button.

Trump ain't Reagan. But it sure feels like some of the same people in the party are running the smear campaign and firing up the hyperbole pump.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 01, 2016 04:55 PM (GGCsk)

513 Trump is bald?That thing on his head has to be his real hair because there is no way he'd get a toupe that looks like a weasel.

Posted by: steevy at March 01, 2016 04:46 PM (B48dK)

Golden mink.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at March 01, 2016 04:55 PM (T78UI)

514 We might as well just accept that we're going to get a number of article from Ace like this.

Ace is a smart guy, but he just hasn't taken the time to sit down and think this one through. Understandable, considering the pressure he's constantly under to write something and get it posted.

Once he has the chance to catch his breath and walk through this in his mind (without the distraction of idiotic insufferable twits), he'll find the truth and logic that escapes him today.

Posted by: jwest at March 01, 2016 04:55 PM (Zs4uk)

515 No I haven't. You misread my original statement. I never said that it's racist to note that Chinese trade pressure is a challenge. The bigotry arises when one focuses almost exclusively on the Chinese as being the reason why job creation is so terrible in this country right now. T
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:52 PM (lVU49)

____

And Trump has never said it either. You are imagining the bigotry.

So we've established that both China and illegals pose a threat to the US.

Trump has said he want to minimize that threat.

So please explain to me how that is a racist position.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:55 PM (0LHZx)

516 If Trump gets elected, nothing's going to change. GOP elites (and not even the decent ones; see Christie, Gingrich) are lining up behind him and angling for jobs in his administration ... and they'll get them. Trump changes his convictions like I change my socks. He'll cut deals with anybody and everybody because that's what he does. On the bright side, our $19 trillion federal debt will tube the country faster than Trump could. Then, if we're lucky, we can begin a new republic.

Posted by: Holmes at March 01, 2016 04:55 PM (gNDwK)

517 489 "Belmont is subsidized and protected by regulations and cartels out the wazoo. Please."

Utter horseshit. Belmont pays for EVERYTHING. You can look it up.

---

No, see Fishtownians needs a subsidy to keep them from making babies with people they aren't married to.

(This is a very strange interpretation of Coming Apart, isn't it? Especially on a conservative site?)

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at March 01, 2016 04:55 PM (Iuwxp)

518 Vote Rubio, get Trump. And then get Hillary.
___________________

I'm not at all sure that Hillary can beat Trump. Hillary has high negatives too, and she is strongly disliked by a lot of women and working class white Dims -- many of whom are as angry about illegal immigration as the Republican base. Even with pouty GOPe types sitting the election out because they won't vote for that "short-fingered vulgarian" Trump, that doesn't necessarily guarantee a Hillary victory.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at March 01, 2016 04:56 PM (df5V4)

519 CRAP! That should be 50-50 Trump - Cruz. My fingers fumbled. The contempt WAS for Rubio.

Posted by: Subotai Bahadur at March 01, 2016 04:56 PM (Ik8pP)

520 Gotcha? How so? I'm a Cruz supporter (followed by Trump). Its a procedural decision, not a substantive decision. So its not dispositive of anything.

****

As in "I understand"

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 01, 2016 04:56 PM (8PbKi)

521 Before that, you said it's racist to observe that
Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese are major threats to America that need to be
limited.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:53 PM (uURQL)
I guess you missed the "and" in my sentence.
Trump's racism comes in the form of scapegoating foreigners. That

foreigners - Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese - represent the major threats to

America, and that all we need to do is kick them out or otherwise limit

their influence to Make America Great Again.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:57 PM (lVU49)

522 but there will always be a "ruling class". right?

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 01, 2016 04:57 PM (WTSFk)

523 No I haven't. You misread my original statement. I never said that it's racist to note that Chinese trade pressure is a challenge. The bigotry arises when one focuses almost exclusively on the Chinese as being the reason why job creation is so terrible in this country right now. There are lots of reasons, and China is one of many. A big one, but not the only one.
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:52 PM (lVU49)

You said racism, not bigotry. You didn't mention "exclusively", which completely changes the specifity of the assertion.

Trump loves Everybody. See? Not bigoted.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:57 PM (uURQL)

524 Not a big Trump fan, but calling bullshit on the racist vibe thing.

Give us a few examples.

Posted by: Blano at March 01, 2016 04:48 PM (NHQQx)
== =
Not much difference between a racist and a bigot, imo. Trump is obviously a bigot....or maybe those farmers in Scotland really were "disgusting people...they live like pigs"?

Posted by: Hari Swollensak at March 01, 2016 04:57 PM (aRUb8)

525 But you're opposed to e-verify because it's unfair or it could make mistakes or 1000 other reasons. Just admit you want open borders. Which is fine.

-----------

I'm opposed to e-verify for a lot of reasons, namely because there is already a requirement that employers check on legal status, because I don't like using employers to do the bidding of the federal government (how has tax withholding worked out?), and because I don't like the idea of creating more bureaucracy to solve a government problem. You want to increase the penalties for hiring illegals, then do it. Most business owners already follow the law and check on status.

But I have this sneaky suspicion that e-verify will be used to target businesses more than solve the immigration problem. See the IRS, see the DOL.

Posted by: SH at March 01, 2016 04:57 PM (gmeXX)

526 436 ---Jerry Falwell Jr's endorsement of Trump shocked me.
Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at March 01, 2016 04:43 PM (EVl8U)
-----------------------
Me too.
And, according to my daughter who lives there, it shocked A LOT of people in Lynchburg.

The rationale (excuse?) given has to do with frustration over the GOPe's complete lack of action re the funding of Planned Parenthood. Even with those butcher tapes available, they have done nothing.

But that doesn't explain why he should endorse the pro-choice (PP does good things!) Trump.
Beats me.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 01, 2016 04:57 PM (T/5A0)

527 It's easy to think illegals pose no threat when you live in a nearly all white upper middle class part of town and send your kids to a $25K a year private school.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:57 PM (0LHZx)

528 And another thing -- if, as seems likely, Trump wins, how on earth do you think you will have any influence over him if you slag him nonstop from now until November?

Please think it through, folks. The only way to shape his course is to get onboard if he's nominated, and work with him.

Another danger: all the crazed hysteria about Trump = Mussolini on the conservative team is pleasing the Leftists to no end -- because they can take all that and say, "You SEE? We TOLD you the rightwingers [sic] are all fascists! They're Admitting It!"

Chill, people. This is the Long Game. Trump is (a) basically patriotic (at least a HELL of a lot more patriotic than Hildabeast, and (b) is capable of kicking the Leftists in the nuts and has the stones to expose their tactics. But if he's being attacked constantly by our team, he'll definitely take pleasure in kicking US in the nuts.

Posted by: Beverly at March 01, 2016 04:57 PM (yAwFR)

529 "No one disagrees that Chinese trade pressure costs Americans jobs."

But if we think they're the major threats whose influence needs to lessened, we're BIGOTS?

You're still hemming and hawing, equating "Kick Out the Chinaman" with "Limit PRC economic influence" when those are radically different agendas.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 04:57 PM (EioIi)

530 Honestly, I don't remember this type of garment rending and lamentation for Obama.
Posted by: Marcus T at March 01, 2016 04:52 PM (GGCsk)

I personally not only rent garments but sacrificed three hobos over Obama's election.

But there is a world of difference between having a team that lost to Obama and the D's, and having your own team blown up entirely. From within. Because angry, but also, apparently, not clever.

Hence the current spate of teeth gnashing. Myself included.

Posted by: TexasDan at March 01, 2016 04:57 PM (7NKH4)

531 >>Chemjeff, if what you post is ten minutes

Now he's going a) argue with you that he's been saying what he means but that [redefine his term here], b) pose an absurd hypothetical, c) deploy "you don't agree?", believing that it's d) rhetorically clever, but not understanding that e) fail.

It's like arguing with a cigar-store Indian.

Posted by: General Zod at March 01, 2016 04:58 PM (Bdeb0)

532 318 Trump's racism comes in the form of scapegoating foreigners. That foreigners - Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese - represent the major threats to America, and that all we need to do is kick them out or otherwise limit their influence to Make America Great Again. It isn't the Mississippi Burning-style racism, it is the somewhat more subtle "blame the strange-looking people" type of racism.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:30 PM (lVU49)

Oh, please uncontrolled illegal aliens and H1B job hijacking would be a YUUUUUGE issue,

even if the illegals and H1B's were some kind of Whitey Whiterson -hybrid of Icelanders and Irish.

It's a stupid and intellectually dishonest argument.

If a bunch of Albanians, were suddenly driving chemjeff out of his job and making it hard if not impossible to find work,

you can damn well bet that chemjeff would be the first guy in line to join-

The Anti-illegal Albanian Party.

Your attitude represents a real failure of empathy and imagination.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 01, 2016 04:58 PM (0cMkb)

533 The Rube's voters continue to demonstrate their keen powers of discernment:

"'Two ballots were stuck together when they were issued and the woman they were handed to voted on both of them,' Showalter said."

Oh. Yes. Of course. As one does when that happens.

http://wtvr.com/2016/03/01/ballot-already-filled-out/

Posted by: torquewrench at March 01, 2016 04:58 PM (noWW6)

534 Sorry ChemJeff, I mistook SH's anti e-verify position as yours.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:58 PM (0LHZx)

535 520 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 01, 2016 04:56 PM (8PbKi)

---

Ah. And now I, too, understand.

Posted by: SaltyDonnie at March 01, 2016 04:58 PM (i6shs)

536 >>Vote Rubio, get Trump. And then get Hillary.
<<

You did read the article today where The Hag's people were talking off the record. They said their game is to get Trump's negatives higher than her's.

That should be a clue about where this is going.

The more people see Trump, the more his numbers go up. THe Hag is having the converse effect.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 01, 2016 04:59 PM (GGCsk)

537
February, 1980 Carter 60% Reagan 31%

-----

I want all of the "electibility" gasbags to stop, go back, and read THAT one again.

And again.

And Again.

AND AGAIN.

Now.... repeat after me.

"Most polling is done NOT to ascertain what I think.... but to influence WHAT I think."

No... go have a beer.... and relax.

Posted by: fixerupper at March 01, 2016 04:59 PM (8XRCm)

538 Well they better smarten up or enlightened renewal is going to look awfully similar to a muzzle flash.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 01, 2016 04:59 PM (4ErVI)

539 Anyone who accuses Trump of racism based on the Tapper exchanged has adopted the left's number one tactic.

And it is despicable.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at March 01, 2016 04:59 PM (eXTZt)

540 ... and that all we need to do is kick them out or otherwise limit their influence to Make America Great Again.
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 04:57 PM (lVU49)

"kick them out or otherwise limit" covers everything from speaking out against their influence to complete deportation.

You tarred a very broad set of actions as racist.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:59 PM (uURQL)

541 It's like arguing with a cigar-store Indian.
Posted by: General Zod

I'm not even that bad.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2016 04:59 PM (+058L)

542 Trump has said he want to minimize that threat.

So please explain to me how that is a racist position.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:55 PM (0LHZx)
Taken in isolation, it isn't. But when it comes to jobs, he focuses on the Chinese almost exclusively. When does he talk about things that could be done to create jobs domestically? When does he say "yeah China is taking our jobs, but there's a lot of useless regulations in DC that kill job creation too"? I don't hear him saying that. It's always "those damn foreigners". I mean, maybe he says it from time to time. But it's certainly not the centerpiece of his campaign and it's not why people are flocking to him.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 05:00 PM (lVU49)

543
If a bunch of Albanians, were suddenly driving chemjeff out of his job and making it hard if not impossible to find work,

you can damn well bet that chemjeff would be the first guy in line to join-

The Anti-illegal Albanian Party.

Your attitude represents a real failure of empathy and imagination.
Posted by: naturalfake at March 01, 2016 04:58 PM (0cMkb)

______

Yep. It's easy to think illegals are just hard working people when they're working hard at someone else's job. If we had 100K illegal chemists coming into the country every year, me thinks ChemJeff's position would do a 180 PDQ.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 05:00 PM (0LHZx)

544

nood all

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 01, 2016 05:00 PM (qCMvj)

545 Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 04:55 PM (0LHZx)

Trump didn't just say " I want to minimize that threat" .

I don't think Trump is racist. I just think he's like every other liberal. He thinks he's superior.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at March 01, 2016 05:00 PM (UGLi1)

546 Is Trump racist for calling out the illegal aliens who commit crimes? Is he racist for calling out suicidal policies to bring thousands into the country, unvetted,.who come from regions and belong to religions exalting our murder. Take the non-white aspect out. Then it doesn't look very racisty to me. Looks more like common sense.

Posted by: Russkilitlover at March 01, 2016 05:00 PM (+mKhG)

547 Just got back from voting. I'm gonna predict that Trump is gonna pull within 5 pts of Cruz and that would be ruinous. I would be shocked if Trump wins in Texas, but he might.

I think the disaffected Donk-crossover spoiler vote may be strong enough... cause Texas Dems are like that... they're always pulling shit and they HATE Cruz, so I wouldn't doubt a few thousand of 'em would take this opportunity to knock Ted out..... in the state he just has to win outright. We'll see.

Posted by: Yip at March 01, 2016 05:01 PM (e7T6D)

548 " he is in fact a conman, and his lifelong liberal orientation guarantees he will always bow to liberal pressure" ace

Trump lives in a world where "in fact a conman" would get sued and lose. The Rubio lies are conman, KKK, little "hands", liberal, etc. Those are not facts.

Lifelong liberal orientation. He wanted to bring jobs back since Bush took over in 1989, recognizing our exporting of jobs, revered by House R's and D's. America First is not a "liberal" position, it is anti-globalist position.

The Big Threat to America is the globalist UN centric world of Bush AND Hillary. Bush world wanted open borders and exported jobs, and acted as the global policeman. I was on board for the war, but for winning and maybe growing democracies ... not for leaving it linger and handing it to the commie Dems to resolve.

"Free Trade" is Orwellian Newspeak for globalism. As Sessions said, only Trump really gets the TPP problem. Trump may take in qualified H-1Bs later, but has called for the pause like Cruz does. Conservative Inc. is holding to tightly to their brand, and not seeing the big picture.

Have we forgotten what we really face? Remember all Monty's DOOM DOOM posts? We have $200T in unfunded liabilities and an overpriced stock and bond market, and a manipulated monetary policy. The globalists are the BIG con men ... they are selling our sovereignty, importing a more submissive population.

Trump wins across all demographics ... but forever we hear his base is the stupid people. Good grief.

Posted by: Illiniwek at March 01, 2016 05:01 PM (eUbDe)

549 You tarred a very broad set of actions as racist.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 04:59 PM (uURQL)
Let me repeat:
and that all we need to do is kick them out or otherwise limit their influence to Make America Great Again.

Once again, the point is that the scapegoating arises when undue blame for the problem is cast on the foreigners in question. When it comes to poor domestic job creation, does China deserve blame? Yes. Does China deserve as much blame as it's getting from Trump? No.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 05:01 PM (lVU49)

550 You want to know if someone is a racist? Check their life interactions with other races. Anything short of that is cowardice at best.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at March 01, 2016 05:01 PM (eXTZt)

551 You know, this has been a bottom up revolution. I think it may still take some time before the top slot goes our way. But as the Cantor example proves, we can start flushing out the lower levels and make sure that the replacement benches are filled with our guys.

Posted by: Iblis at March 01, 2016 05:02 PM (9221z)

552 >>McConnell told Obama to shove it again.

Yes I did. I only jumped a little...at first.

Posted by: Mitch at March 01, 2016 05:02 PM (c7vUv)

553 If you were born here, fine.
If you were not, but came here legally, fine.
If you were not, and did NOT come here legally, GTFO.

Why is that badthink?

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2016 05:02 PM (+058L)

554 Taken in isolation, it isn't. But when it comes to jobs, he focuses on the Chinese almost exclusively. When does he talk about things that could be done to create jobs domestically? When does he say "yeah China is taking our jobs, but there's a lot of useless regulations in DC that kill job creation too"? I don't hear him saying that. It's always "those damn foreigners". I mean, maybe he says it from time to time. But it's certainly not the centerpiece of his campaign and it's not why people are flocking to him.
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 05:00 PM (lVU49)

______

Because every GOPe candidate has been saying the same bullshit for 30 years. We need to cut govt waste. Yeah and then they get to DC and vote to keep Obamacare and as an added bonus give us TPP.

The fact you can't see this tells me a lot.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 05:02 PM (0LHZx)

555 >>Honestly, I don't remember this type of garment rending and lamentation for Obama.

I don't remember the sort of contortions necessary to justify Trump as the nominee of the Republican Party for, well, anyone.

Times change I guess.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 01, 2016 05:02 PM (/tuJf)

556 We might as well just accept that we're going to get a number of article from Ace like this.
Ace is a smart guy, but he just hasn't taken the time to sit down and think this one through. Understandable, considering the pressure he's constantly under to write something and get it posted.
Once he has the chance to catch his breath and walk through this in his mind (without the distraction of idiotic insufferable twits), he'll find the truth and logic that escapes him today.
Posted by: jwest at March 01, 2016 04:55 PM (Zs4uk)

This is marvelously douchy. That's a compliment. I don't think he hasn't thought it through, I think he's standing by his principles for now.

Who knows, tonight's results could surprise us. And if either Cruz or Rubio surges, wins a couple states, whatever - hell, even if only one of them wins just one state, and Trump takes the rest - they're going to be "in the race" as far as Ace is concerned.

And he's also building a resume of cautious support for aspects of Trump's campaign without endorsing him personally - because the racist shit is gonna keep coming for weeks and weeks, right up til November, presumably.

So I get it. And as far as his reasoning he's exactly right. I'm willing to go out on a limb and wishcast (and that is what us sTrumpets are doing, btw) about Trump because I don't have a blog and people can't call me on past positions.

And then once he comes around I'm sure he'll lift a lot of my writing, like he's done in the past.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 05:03 PM (xuouz)

557 But the Colorado Republican Party has become the GOPe ideal, with no input by the membership into candidate choices because we would choose the "wrong" people. And you wonder why Trump has a following

And the Trumpets have proven them right. Expect more, not less of such structuring.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 01, 2016 05:03 PM (XhSez)

558 539 Anyone who accuses Trump of racism based on the Tapper exchanged has adopted the left's number one tactic.

And it is despicable.
Posted by: MaxMBJ at March 01, 2016 04:59 PM (eXTZt)

People are desperate. If all they have to hold on to is a wisp of grass on the cliff over the gaping trench, they will commence to grasping.

People will be people.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 01, 2016 05:03 PM (iHjB5)

559 But that doesn't explain why he should endorse the pro-choice (PP does good things!) Trump.
Beats me.
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 01, 2016 04:57 PM (T/5A0)

Trump strongly states he is pro-life.
https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/posts/10156651940305725

Trump accepting the claim that PP does good "women's health" work outside of abortion is not the same thing as being pro-choice.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 05:03 PM (uURQL)

560 Oh, and Ace... good write up. I had to turn the radio off to read it. heh.

Posted by: Yip at March 01, 2016 05:03 PM (e7T6D)

561 >>Why is that badthink?

Racism.

Posted by: General Zod at March 01, 2016 05:03 PM (Bdeb0)

562 There was a joke in that last post.

Also I said "as far as ace is concerned" and I really meant "as far as the media is concerned" and that was a typo not a freudian slip.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 05:03 PM (xuouz)

563 Dear God:

At some point during the next eight months, a plane carrying Donald Trump and another plane carrying Hillary Clinton will be flying in the same general vicinity. Please have them crash into each other high above a body of water or other unpopulated area. Thank you -

Sincerely,
Citizens for a Concerned Citizenry

Posted by: Citizens for a Concerned Citizenry at March 01, 2016 05:03 PM (Y8P5w)

564 Posted by: naturalfake at March 01, 2016 04:58 PM (0cMkb)

This is just an appeal to emotion. Sure if I were in a different set of circumstances I might have a different set of beliefs. But I don't, and so I have the beliefs that I have now, backed up by the arguments I am presenting now.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 05:03 PM (lVU49)

565 My town in Belmont. There's a nice bar by the train station. When we get off the train we could roll in and down a coupla beers, watch SportsCenter. Kinda unwind. Only nobody does.

You watch the commuters off the train as they walk past the bar on their way home. They have to make dinner, drive the kids to ballet or soccer practice, maybe coach youth baseball. Nobody gets to sit and have a drink instead.

Know how many need-based scholarships in my town? Zippo. Do we get a tax credit for college tuition or elder care or day care? What about those "tax breaks for the rich" I hear so much about? Care to name them so I can tell my accountant about them?

This chip some tote on their shoulders about how the well-off are gaming the system, getting some free shit is complete garbage, from garbage people with garbage minds. We're the ones doing the heavy lifting, having kids and keeping them out of trouble, keeping jobs we hate and paying for everybody else.

Posted by: spongeworthy at March 01, 2016 05:04 PM (xB4nF)

566 Trump will do it. No one else -- not Rubio, not Cruz -- has the courage and the leadership skills to do this.Posted by: MaxMBJ at March 01, 2016 04:54 PM (eXTZt)

Courage? You mean like the courage you learn about on a combat deploymentor the kind of courage that goes with attending an elite military prep school? Of course, according to Trump, attending military school is the same as being in the military. And you Trump supporters defend that statement. Jeebus.

Courage comes from character. Looking at Trump, I see no evidence of it.

Posted by: troyriser at March 01, 2016 05:04 PM (UWlp+)

567 Well, you're all invested.
As all we are.

Knocketh thyselves out.

I refuse.

Posted by: Thanatopsis at March 01, 2016 05:04 PM (fiBHP)

568 If I were to walk into Mitch McConnell's country club uninvited, I would be quickly escorted out or even arrested.

But if an illegal walk across the border, and I say hey wait a second, you're not allowed to be here, McConnell tells me I'm worse than Hitler.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 05:04 PM (0LHZx)

569 It's easy to think illegals pose no threat when you live in a nearly all white upper middle class part of town and send your kids to a $25K a year private school.Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo

News for you. I sent my kids to expensive private school. Live in one of the wealthiest counties in the nation, probably the wealthiest In the state. It's happening here. Assaults, drug dealing, heroin over doses.

Just because it's not happening everywhere at once doesn't mean it's not coming to your neighborhood soon.

Posted by: mega machines at March 01, 2016 05:05 PM (fbovC)

570 Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 05:02 PM (0LHZx)

That is a complete non-sequitur. I don't even know where that is coming from.

So Trump is supposed to cast undue blame on the foreigners because no one would believe DC kills job creation all by itself? What?

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 05:05 PM (lVU49)

571 "It's easy to think illegals pose no threat when you live in a nearly all
white upper middle class part of town and send your kids to a $25K a
year private school."

They don't pose much threat here. In fact they have already mostly taken over my part of town, certainly the local schools and business and soon the local govt. They are fairly magnanimous to the remaining non-Hispanics as long as we promise to learn Spanish and agree to pay all the taxes.

Posted by: Hand of Count Petofi at March 01, 2016 05:05 PM (1BQGO)

572 well, I've said it before and I'll say it again: no, Trump would not be my first choice (that could have been Walker or Perry,and would be Cruz), but I do think Trump wants to be a winner. The fact that he seems to change positions whenever he sees fit to do so and the presumed fact that he wants to be a winner leads me to at least have good hopes that as President, with the Repubs still controlling the Congress, he will be easily convinced to do things that will let him crow his head off about how much things have improved between inauguration and first SOTU address.
Just my hundred and two cents.

Posted by: Mallfly Cloggenstein of Rattleburger Vt at March 01, 2016 05:06 PM (qSIlh)

573 I like Trump's "Psychotic Racoon" look. How do you get that? Can you buy a kit, or do you have to lay in the sun all day wearing swimming goggles?

Posted by: Trumptardian at March 01, 2016 05:07 PM (Y8P5w)

574 The upper middle class has more to worry about drugs than the lower middle.

La Jolla High School had a drug problem long before Mission Bay High School.

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at March 01, 2016 05:07 PM (1ijHg)

575 So Trump is supposed to cast undue blame on the foreigners because no one would believe DC kills job creation all by itself? What?
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 05:05 PM (lVU49)

___

So now it's back to undue blame? LOL. You just admitted 5 mins ago that China does pose a threat to American jobs. My god man, pick a fucking position and stick with it.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 05:07 PM (0LHZx)

576 553
If you were born here, fine.

If you were not, but came here legally, fine.

If you were not, and did NOT come here legally, GTFO.

Why is that badthink?

Posted by: rickb223 at March 01, 2016 05:02 PM (+058L)
It's not. But let me ask you this: What if you had a politician who would rightly blame the illegals for breaking the law for coming here illegally in the first place, but would never even mention the economic drivers that bring the illegals here in the first place, the shady employers willing to hire illegal labor? He rails and rails against those damn illegals breaking our laws, but he doesn't say one word about the domestic employers who are ALSO breaking our laws. What would you say?

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 05:08 PM (lVU49)

577 Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 05:04 PM (0LHZx)

Funny you didn't use the dozen or so country clubs that Trump own's for your example.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at March 01, 2016 05:08 PM (UGLi1)

578 "So Trump is supposed to cast undue blame on the foreigners because no one would believe DC kills job creation all by itself? What?"

Well go ask yourself how you think China plays any role as a threat to our political economy, as you yourself have said. Then ask yourself how "limiting their influence" to minimize such a threat = Kick Out The Chinaman. Surely we can be for limiting the influence of an existing threat without being bigots?

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 05:08 PM (EioIi)

579
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 05:07 PM (0LHZx)
Whatever man. I tried. Go blow a goat or something.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 05:09 PM (lVU49)

580 Nothing will change that much.

The problem with the "favors" to lower classes is that at the end of the day, they'd be worse off with the type of favors they're looking for and Trump is promising them.

A protectionist trade policy, for example, would be bigger disaster to those lower classes than to the wealthy or the upper-middle classes.

No politician will actually revert the progresses made on free-trade because the economic impact would be swift and painful - and they'd be blamed for it. This isn't raising the minimum age, where the negative impacts are mostly insidious - it mostly affects jobs that haven't been created yet. It's easy to obfuscate the negative consequences of minimum wage raises, it's impossible to do so with the negative consequences of protectionism.

Remember when Obama was promising to repeal the NAFTA and had Austan Goolsbee phoning the Canadians telling them that of course he didn't really mean it? No President wants a major recession happening under his watch and that's the inevitable end result of economic protectionism in today's world.

Reality is stubborn and you can't change economics laws through legislation or executive orders.

There's a reason why the total number of successful economic populist movements and governments amounts to a big round zero. Economic populism might work sometimes for skilled demagogues to get into power but it's an empty tool set when it comes to public policy. See Tsipras in Greece imposing even more fiscal austerity than the previous governments. Or how all the "wealth taxes" tried in Europe worked out. Not a single one lasted more than a few years.

Posted by: Abali at March 01, 2016 05:09 PM (89I+i)

581 It's not. But let me ask you this: What if you had a politician who would rightly blame the illegals for breaking the law for coming here illegally in the first place, but would never even mention the economic drivers that bring the illegals here in the first place, the shady employers willing to hire illegal labor? He rails and rails against those damn illegals breaking our laws, but he doesn't say one word about the domestic employers who are ALSO breaking our laws. What would you say?
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 05:08 PM (lVU49)

_________

Do illegals take away American jobs? Yes.

Are employers to blame as well as the illegals themselves? Yes

Will the problem go away if illegals are no longer here? Yes

Happy?

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 05:09 PM (0LHZx)

582 We consider ourselves the white working class but by your definition we are not. We put ourselves throught college (it took me 19 years) and both of our sons. We were given nothing from our parents. We took 2nd jobs for many years. We did without many many things to put food on the table. My husband worked on commission the first 25 years of our marriage in banking. Lost jobs during all 3 economic turndowns, except the last one. He is finally on salary because of his years of working hard and many hours.
So now he makes above your $75,000 threshold.
But no more advancements because some HR person decided no more promotions of white guys.
But we are still living well below our means because we are staring retirement in the face in 10 years. No pension so we have to save. We have seen our investments loose 50% of their value twice now. Yet nobody went to jail for the housing crash. Nobody went to jail for the IRS stuff, f &f, etc etc etc.
Our son has been working abroad for 6 years because of lack of jobs here. And our health insurance is thru the roof partly because of so many illegals.
So yeah, I'm very angry. And I know Trump is a terrible vote. And Cruz is the smartest guy in the room. And Scalia dying put a big wrench in everything. I am very conflicted.
But PLEASE Ace, don't think that the only angry people are the blue collar or lower income white people. A lot of us life long R's are pissed off of the sell out the party has become since Reagan. We played by the rules all our lives and we have been, and are continuing to get screwed. So the illegals and the muslim refugees are my number one issue. Nothing much else matters to me.

Posted by: Buckeye Katie at March 01, 2016 05:09 PM (1M/xn)

583 This chip some tote on their shoulders about how the
well-off are gaming the system, getting some free shit is complete
garbage, from garbage people with garbage minds. We're the ones doing
the heavy lifting, having kids and keeping them out of trouble, keeping
jobs we hate and paying for everybody else.

Posted by: spongeworthy

Oh, screw you. Just because you worked hard, delayed gratification, and lived your life intelligently, you think you don't owe me? Pay me, MFer.

Posted by: The Proles at March 01, 2016 05:10 PM (LAe3v)

584 220 Cruz is a rejection of the Republicans.

Trump is a rejection of ALL the politicians AND the political class, including pundits (many of who like to say things like 'the Republicans always lose in government shutdowns').

I'm with Monsieur Moo Moo.

Posted by: East Bay Jay at March 01, 2016 04:19 PM (PvCxa)

*********

And Moo Moo was a staunch defender of every Obama stimulus and the Obama economy.

Oh look! CNBC is discussing negative interest rates!

Posted by: RadioE at March 01, 2016 05:11 PM (mcm0N)

585 >>I like Trump's "Psychotic Racoon" look

'Member that scene in Wonka where the Oompa-Loompa dons mad dark shades to process the shrunken T.V. Mike?

THAT shit. (drops mic)

Posted by: General Zod at March 01, 2016 05:11 PM (Bdeb0)

586 Do illegals take away American jobs? Yes.

Are employers to blame as well as the illegals themselves? Yes

Will the problem go away if illegals are no longer here? Yes

Happy?

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 05:09 PM (0LHZx)
I am glad this is your position.
When does Trump make this kind of argument, giving due blame as appropriate? Seems to me, he reserves most of his ire against the illegals, and doesn't say very much at all about the businesses hiring illegals.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 05:11 PM (lVU49)

587 Whatever man. I tried. Go blow a goat or something.
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 05:09 PM (lVU49)

_____

Says the guy who wants a "mature" discussion. You're a parody.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 05:11 PM (0LHZx)

588 "A protectionist trade policy, for example, would be bigger disaster to those lower classes than to the wealthy or the upper-middle classes. "

I no longer believe that is true, especially since US tax breaks have been ruled to need "balancing" by foriegn government subsidies. If China wasn't flooding America with cheap imports more would be made here at home by blue collar workers.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 05:12 PM (EioIi)

589 And Moo Moo was a staunch defender of every Obama stimulus and the Obama economy.

Oh look! CNBC is discussing negative interest rates!
Posted by: RadioE at March 01, 2016 05:11 PM (mcm0N)

____

When have I ever defended stimulus? I'll wait....

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 05:12 PM (0LHZx)

590 Posted by: spongeworthy at March 01, 2016 05:04 PM (xB4nF)

This is a war of the top and bottom against the middle. The elites, by definition have no numbers, and in Democracy that's a problem. They hire the bottom to be their numbers and promise them a share of the spoils and together they rape the middle. They rape you. You don't get the welfare of the bottom, or the tax breaks at the top, and all the while the top is busy figuring out ways to pay you less, and extract more of what little is left.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 05:12 PM (LtMun)

591 Let me repeat:
and that all we need to do is kick them out or otherwise limit their influence to Make America Great Again.

Once again, the point is that the scapegoating arises when undue blame for the problem is cast on the foreigners in question. When it comes to poor domestic job creation, does China deserve blame? Yes. Does China deserve as much blame as it's getting from Trump? No.
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 05:01 PM (lVU49)

Repeating your sentence and bolding different parts of it won't give it the meaning you are trying to assign to it.

Your words as written called people racist for an action without the caveats you are trying to insert now.

You can own your words and retract the racism accusation, or you can try to spin and pretend you have no responsibility for your words.

You can do whichever you want - but not owning your words destroys your credibility. We can still enjoy talking about burnt steaks and fapplebee waitresses, but your political observations will have no weight because the words are meaningless - the meaning is whatever you feel it is after the fact, rather than what is written.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 05:13 PM (uURQL)

592 China needs us more than we need them. Trump knows this. RINOs don't and never will.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 05:14 PM (0LHZx)

593 But that doesn't explain why he should endorse the pro-choice (PP does good things!) Trump.

Beats me.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 01, 2016 04:57 PM (T/5A0)

Contrails of "Gullible Gas"..it was discovered while the Government was perfecting "Project Harp".

Posted by: Alex Jones at March 01, 2016 05:14 PM (aRUb8)

594 DD just went live...Ben Carson is leading in all eleven states

Posted by: AltonJackson at March 01, 2016 05:14 PM (ZQfW9)

595 that China does pose a threat to American jobs. My god man, pick a fucking position and stick with it.

******

Wake up Obama economic "master" China is losing jobs to Vietnam,Laos, and North Korea.

Posted by: RadioE at March 01, 2016 05:14 PM (mcm0N)

596 Why assume that, on immigration at least, the Republican party has no plan other than to try to go on ignoring the base? Surely they do have a plan: win just *one* more election somehow, then ram through CIR early and fast, then kiss and make up with Republican voters over the next two-slash-four years. The base may be irreconcilable to the *prospect* of such a deal, but presumably they can eventually be induced to put up with it in retrospect, especially since Republican politicians can start striking postures of opposition to it once it is already safely passed. Now probably the deal *will* be more anti-immigration than it would otherwise have been, in show and even in substance, in order to placate Republican voters, but it will be very much a deal, and one which pro-illegal-immigrant Latinos and, above all, businesses looking for cheap labour will find acceptable. If that sounds impossible to get away with, the GOP pros would just point you to TARP. What did all that Republican voter anger result in? Increased GOP majorities, a Tea Party which was effortlessly lead by the nose away from the issue of Wall Street, and the incredibly transparent "just let it fail" dodge (protip: the *next* time the banks need a bailout, it's going to turn out to be the time after *that* that they should just be allowed to fail, actually) which lets Republicans fight for everything the big banks want while simultaneously posturing against bailouts. From this point of view, the lesson of the past several years for Congressional Republicans trying to manage the base is not to avoid unpopular measures, but to rip the bandage off quickly, then do whatever squirming around is necessary until the hare sits (and the metaphors separate). (You can probably throw in Obamacare as a similar example as well.)

Posted by: anonymous irishman at March 01, 2016 05:14 PM (DJgfL)

597 And prolly no one will respond to me. My family has been here since 1629. Provable. And now it doesn't matter.

Oh, well, one does what one does.

Posted by: Thanatopsis at March 01, 2016 05:14 PM (fiBHP)

598
So now it's back to undue blame? LOL. You just
admitted 5 mins ago that China does pose a threat to American jobs. My
god man, pick a fucking position and stick with it.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 05:07 PM (0LHZx)

---
There isn't a fixed amount of jobs. Countries don't compete for jobs. Very few Chinese and Americans compete for the same jobs. To put it in a simplistic way, Americans don't want to sell their labor to manufacture shoes at the price point necessary to buy nearly the amount of shoes they buy. Chinese do, and Americans are better off designing and marketing those shoes. Economy isn't a zero sum game. Cut trade relationships with China and the US unemployment rate would quickly rise to double digits and keep growing from there. That's why it'll never happen.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 05:15 PM (89I+i)

599 DD just went live...Ben Carson is leading in all eleven states
Posted by: AltonJackson at March 01, 2016 05:14 PM (ZQfW9)

haha very funny

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified inane at March 01, 2016 05:16 PM (xuouz)

600 @27: "Trump waves his bottle of Make America Great Again around and the rubes
are drooling and screaming for the sale. No, don't ask whats in it, but
it removes tobacco stains from his white coat."

Ok, but it's selling better than the GOPe's Kang/Kodos: "The politics of failure have failed; it's time to make them succeed again" approach, and may well beat out the Dems "this time, we've got the right people in charge to make socialism work (which comes, as always, with the unspoken: this time, we'll kill the right people, if it doesn't)".

Posted by: FaCubeItches at March 01, 2016 05:17 PM (rznWS)

601
This is a war of the top and bottom against the
middle. The elites, by definition have no numbers, and in Democracy
that's a problem. They hire the bottom to be their numbers and promise
them a share of the spoils and together they rape the middle. They rape
you. You don't get the welfare of the bottom, or the tax breaks at the
top, and all the while the top is busy figuring out ways to pay you
less, and extract more of what little is left.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 05:12 PM (LtMun)
--If life as a job creator is that great and easy, what are you waiting for to start your own company?

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 05:17 PM (89I+i)

602 History is full of Type 3 Ruling Classes. Because frankly, once they run the show it's damn hard to get them out of power.

The delusion that elections can do anything is just that.

The only reason there isn't a "thousand year reich" in Germany is because outside nations kicked their asses out of power. The only reason the Soviet Union isn't ruling Europe and most of Asia is because the U.S. kicked their asses out of power (without a war this time).

I'm sorry, but the record of internal demolition of tyrannies is damn few and far between. Most "successful" revolutions depose feeble and ineffectual powers and replace them with anything-but-feeble replacements.

The U.S. may be very close to showing that the election process isn't the ultimate power we've been sold on all our lives. The "superdelegate" process on the Democratic side is just one symptom.

Since Federalism bit the dust a long time ago, where to from here? States getting together to change the Constitution? For what? The ruling classes are already ignoring the Constitution that's in effect now.

Posted by: TB at March 01, 2016 05:18 PM (UXEYz)

603 Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 05:13 PM (uURQL)

No, RM, I think you read too much into it.

Once again, I never called anyone a racist for believing Chinese trade pressure is a threat to American jobs. I happen to believe that myself. The potentially bigoted part is how much a person might blame China for the lack of job creation in this country. As I see it, Trump likes to scapegoat foreigners, so he will assign far too much blame to foreigners for why America has the problems that it has.

Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at March 01, 2016 05:18 PM (lVU49)

604 My family has been here since 1629. Provable. And now it doesn't matter.

Posted by: Thanatopsis at March 01, 2016 05:14 PM (fiBHP)
==== ====
So yer sayin' yer a foreigner.

Posted by: Lloyd Christmas at March 01, 2016 05:19 PM (aRUb8)

605 Not a big Trump fan, but calling bullshit on the racist vibe thing.

Give us a few examples.

Posted by: Blano at March 01, 2016 04:48 PM (NHQQx)
== =
Not much difference between a racist and a bigot, imo. Trump is obviously a bigot....or maybe those farmers in Scotland really were "disgusting people...they live like pigs"?
Posted by: Hari Swollensak at March 01, 2016 04:57 PM (aRUb

Lol, that's the best you can come up with???

Posted by: Blano at March 01, 2016 05:21 PM (uiVGU)

606 598
So now it's back to undue blame? LOL. You just
admitted 5 mins ago that China does pose a threat to American jobs. My
god man, pick a fucking position and stick with it.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at March 01, 2016 05:07 PM (0LHZx)

---
There isn't a fixed amount of jobs. Countries don't compete for jobs. Very few Chinese and Americans compete for the same jobs. To put it in a simplistic way, Americans don't want to sell their labor to manufacture shoes at the price point necessary to buy nearly the amount of shoes they buy. Chinese do, and Americans are better off designing and marketing those shoes. Economy isn't a zero sum game. Cut trade relationships with China and the US unemployment rate would quickly rise to double digits and keep growing from there. That's why it'll never happen.
Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 05:15 PM (89I+i)

********

Finally someone that might not have slept through his international economics course like the trumpster.

Don't worry though Trump is going to do a national sales tax of 15% and impose some tremendous tariffs and then we can all push wheelbarrows of money around like it's the Weimar again.

Posted by: RadioE at March 01, 2016 05:22 PM (mcm0N)

607 There isn't a fixed amount of jobs. Countries don't
compete for jobs. Very few Chinese and Americans compete for the same
jobs. To put it in a simplistic way, Americans don't want to sell their
labor to manufacture shoes at the price point necessary to buy nearly
the amount of shoes they buy. Chinese do, and Americans are better off
designing and marketing those shoes. Economy isn't a zero sum game. Cut
trade relationships with China and the US unemployment rate would
quickly rise to double digits and keep growing from there. That's why
it'll never happen.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 05:15 PM (89I+i)

Nobody in their right mind is opposed to international free trade, in theory. Who doesn't like the idea of creating a large consumer market in China to trade with. the bigger the markets the better. The only upper limits are the resources of the planet, but there are other planets.
The problem is that China had no internal market it had to be created from whole cloth. This required sacrifice from the first world. China had to be seeded if you will. This was a delicate operation. You didn't want to sink your own economy, so the regulation of the manufacturing that flowed to China had to be closely, and sagely, regulated. Instead we got a bunch of "conservative" academics who thought free trade without limits was just the thing. This nationalistic revolt we're seeing is the logical outcome.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 05:22 PM (LtMun)

608 Well, I'm pretty much done. Politcs trump history. Back to lurkishness. Manana!

Posted by: Thanatopsis at March 01, 2016 05:23 PM (fiBHP)

609 Pickett got further than Grant at Cold Harbor

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 05:27 PM (EioIi)

610 UK anarchists set fire to Calais camp and blame it on cops.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at March 01, 2016 05:27 PM (iQIUe)

611 The smart set, all of them, ace, need to get the fuck over themselves. Trump will be our standard bearer. Get in line, and do your duty. Everyone needs to do their duty. Keep their concerns to themselves. Get Trump elected (because he is better than Hillary), then as Milton Friedman said, "I do not believe that the solution to our problem is simply to elect the right people. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Unless it is politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing, the right people will not do the right thing either, or if they try, they will be shortly out of office."

Trump knows where his bread is buttered. If we make it politically profitable for him to do the right thing, he will.

Posted by: tommylottoo at March 01, 2016 05:27 PM (A3a8d)

612 --If life as a job creator is that great and easy, what are you waiting for to start your own company?

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 05:17 PM (89I+i)

I never said it was easy? You think Hitler's life was easy? There was a lot of hard, hard work.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 05:28 PM (LtMun)

613 drudge has a headline:

limbaugh: trump only possibility of wresting control of country from elites.

sounds naive. limbaugh? guess so...

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 01, 2016 05:28 PM (WTSFk)

614 Umm I'm gonna go on a limb and say most American factory workers did not ever choose to close the plant down and move it outside the USA, I think it was some MBA who chose that for them. And since they didnt die off yet there is still a blue-collar workforce to be put right back to the job.

But I'm old enough to consider Bushy globalism as an experiment not a commitment.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 05:29 PM (EioIi)

615 Limbaugh is sadly just a partisan hack desperate to avoid seeing Hillary elected.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 05:30 PM (EioIi)

616

I no longer believe that is true, especially since US tax breaks
have been ruled to need "balancing" by foriegn government subsidies. If
China wasn't flooding America with cheap imports more would be made
here at home by blue collar workers.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 05:12 PM (EioIi)
---It was true when Ricardo wrote about it, it was true Milton Friedman said he'd rather just lift all the unilateral lifts to importations, it's true today and it'll be true tomorrow.

What's the problem with cheap imports? They're a great thing. Allow people to buy more stuff. That's how standards are living That we import cheap stuff from the Chinese just means we're a lot richer than them. Very few Americans have to spend their lives manufacturing cheap stuff - and having the standards of living doing that implies. That's why even very poor Americans today are richer and have much higher standards of living than middle-class Americans of 50 years ago.
And don't get too attached to blue-collar workers. It's a matter of time till they go the way of agricultural and primary sector workers, who went from 80% of the work force in the 19th century to less than 2% today.

What's the problem with China cheap imports?

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 05:33 PM (89I+i)

617 The potentially bigoted part is how much a person might blame China for the lack of job creation in this country.

Which is not what you originally said.

You posted what you posted. Own it, or don't.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster browsing Bravely at March 01, 2016 05:34 PM (uURQL)

618 What's the problem with cheap imports? They're a
great thing. Allow people to buy more stuff.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 05:33 PM (89I+i)

This is the problem with people who mindlessly quote economic academics who never did anything in the real world. You never fill in the other side of that equation. How do you buy cheap goods with no job? Do you advocate a minimum income provided by the government? Explain the other side of that equation, and I'll think you have a brain.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 05:37 PM (LtMun)

619 Well, I wish to be accepted into the Horde. Sometimes I don't think I'm smart enough. Sometimes. I think you're not. Six of one, a half dozen of the other.
I ain't a bad guy

Meh

Posted by: Thanatopsis at March 01, 2016 05:38 PM (fiBHP)

620 The problem is that China had no internal market it
had to be created from whole cloth. This required sacrifice from the
first world. China had to be seeded if you will. This was a delicate
operation. You didn't want to sink your own economy, so the regulation
of the manufacturing that flowed to China had to be closely, and sagely,
regulated. Instead we got a bunch of "conservative" academics who
thought free trade without limits was just the thing. This nationalistic
revolt we're seeing is the logical outcome.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 05:22 PM (LtMun)

---
Absolute nonsense. China created an internal market the same way every other country did - by letting people buying and selling stuff they want and allowing the price system to breathe. Not perfectly, but even a very controlled and imperfect market is several orders of magnitude better than no market. The world today is a lot richer than when China started progressing economically and the few countries that aren't, if any, are the war ridden ones or those whose governance collapsed like Venezuela. If you don't have even a basic grasp of facts, perhaps you should abstain from talking about those issues. And the part about academics is laughable. It's not about academics - the academia and the political world are probably the micro-realms where free-trade is more attacked- it's the real world.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 05:39 PM (89I+i)

621 Stepping in during daylight for a brief confession.

I was an early Trump enthusiast. Not for the man, but simply as an Agent of Chaos, a means to open opportunities not otherwise available, to bust up the GOPe and maybe change the general dialogue.

And he's managed that so far. But...

There's a saying about summoning spirits...never call up something you can't put back down. I'm beginning to feel like I did exactly that.

I'm a Cruz voter as of right now. If it comes to it I'll pull the lever for Trump in the general, but...it's definitely not what I really want.

Maybe the convention will "solve" the problem (and by "solve" I mean do something earth-shatteringly mind-bogglingly stupid even by GOPe standards) and I won't have to deal with Trump as nominee. Maybe he'll wind up being a successful nominee and a good President in spite of himself (...not optimistic).

But I am in the "My God, what have I done?" phase.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, Restorationist at March 01, 2016 05:39 PM (9krrF)

622 Depenamente

Posted by: Thanatopsis at March 01, 2016 05:39 PM (fiBHP)

623 Well, I wish to be accepted into the Horde. Sometimes I don't think I'm smart enough. Sometimes. I think you're not. Six of one, a half dozen of the other.

It's the Horde. It's usually both at once. Often with the same people.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, Restorationist at March 01, 2016 05:41 PM (9krrF)

624
This is the problem with people who mindlessly
quote economic academics who never did anything in the real world. You
never fill in the other side of that equation. How do you buy cheap
goods with no job? Do you advocate a minimum income provided by the
government? Explain the other side of that equation, and I'll think you
have a brain.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 05:37 PM (LtMun)

---
I'm not an academic, I actually produce and sell stuff for a living. Where did the no jobs bit came from? Your rear end? Luddites were wrong 200 years ago and are wrong today. If you think that importing cheap stuff means an aggregate decrease in jobs, you live in a place of ignorance and have no idea how the real world actually functions.

Have you ever started a business? Have you ever hold a job in the productive sector?

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 05:42 PM (89I+i)

625 "You don't get the welfare of the bottom, or the tax breaks at the
top, and all the while the top is busy figuring out ways to pay you
less, and extract more of what little is left."

Dunno. Makes me feel comforted and aggrieved at the same time, which emotionally is pretty rewarding. But how do you explain all these stock options?

Nobody I know is asking for anything from our employers except stay in business and the government besides leave me alone. Did I tell you the boy got his braces off Monday? This is the shit that matters.

Posted by: spongeworthy at March 01, 2016 05:42 PM (xB4nF)

626 so apparently, messieurs limbaugh and ace disagree. aha.

here's one you haven't heard before:

lee at gettysburg is like yamamoto at midway. both tried to take the offensive into enemy territory to lure out his opponent for the defining climactic battle. both lost, were forced to retreat into defensive strategies for the remainder of their wars, never to take the offensive again. effectively. pretty much. kinda. so there.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 01, 2016 05:43 PM (WTSFk)

627 I'm not an academic, I actually produce and sell
stuff for a living.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 05:42 PM (89I+i)

You seem to have misunderstood me. You're the mindless follower who blindly quotes the academics who did nothing. You didn't bother to fill in the other side of that equation so I'll go ahead and assume you cant, but you can continue to rant for hours if you want.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 05:45 PM (LtMun)

628 both saw that they would lose long protracted wars.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 01, 2016 05:45 PM (WTSFk)

629 Real unemployment is what, 20% of the workforce? I don't think we're growing anything. I really accepted the balance of payments schtick until 2008, when $5 trillion in cash vanished overnight, and then the United States committed to printing our way out and letting the rest of the human race bail us out forever because Duhhhh, We're The Superpower.

Exploitation is certainly possible. We're exploiting our own.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 05:45 PM (EioIi)

630 10 straight years of sub-3% gdp.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 01, 2016 05:46 PM (WTSFk)

631 Whether you agree with Alabi or not, the world's going on about its business with or without us. If you can figure a way we can insulate ourselves from global competition and still sell our goods in global markets, you'll be the first to accomplish this, and a whole new branch of economics will be named for you.

We can get tough and out-compete, which is what we've always done and done well. Or we can pretend that this time, for the first time in history, protectionism and government manipulation of labor markets will work

Posted by: spongeworthy at March 01, 2016 05:47 PM (xB4nF)

632 Dunno. Makes me feel comforted and aggrieved at the
same time, which emotionally is pretty rewarding. But how do you explain
all these stock options?

Posted by: spongeworthy at March 01, 2016 05:42 PM (xB4nF)

You don't boil that frog all at once.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 05:48 PM (LtMun)

633
You seem to have misunderstood me. You're the
mindless follower who blindly quotes the academics who did nothing. You
didn't bother to fill in the other side of that equation so I'll go
ahead and assume you cant, but you can continue to rant for hours if you
want.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 05:45 PM (LtMun)

----
What other side of the equation? You can't even explain what that is. The other side of the equation is that American workers do things that assure them higher standards of living than they'd have if they were in a production line working 12 hours per day glueing cheap shoes.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 05:48 PM (89I+i)

634 "Luddites were wrong 200 years ago and are wrong today. If you think that importing cheap stuff means an aggregate decrease in jobs, you live in a place of ignorance and have no idea how the real world actually functions. "

Soooooo the Rust Belt is a fiction?

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 05:48 PM (EioIi)

635 the $20 trillion debt isn't just a burden on our children. it's the enslavement of all of us now to a massive, omnipresent state.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 01, 2016 05:49 PM (WTSFk)

636 Whether you agree with Alabi or not, the world's
going on about its business with or without us. If you can figure a way
we can insulate ourselves from global competition and still sell our
goods in global markets, you'll be the first to accomplish this, and a
whole new branch of economics will be named for you.

We can get tough and out-compete, which is what we've always done
and done well. Or we can pretend that this time, for the first time in
history, protectionism and government manipulation of labor markets will
work

Posted by: spongeworthy at March 01, 2016 05:47 PM (xB4nF)

I never said that. However we need to represent our own interests. It's time to ween China from the currency peg. It's time to ween Europe from the VAT disparity. It's time that we make deals that are good for the nation, and not just good for the elites.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 05:51 PM (LtMun)

637 We can get tough and out-compete, which is what we've always done and done well. Or we can pretend that this time, for the first time in history, protectionism and government manipulation of labor markets will work

The irony of the position, trying to use gov't to get us out of a hole gov't dug.

It's like I always say, any problem someone claims only gov't can solve was likely caused by gov't to begin with. Shitcan a quarter century of crap regs and stupid laws and nobody will need protectionism.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, Restorationist at March 01, 2016 05:51 PM (9krrF)

638 ... and with that omnipresence will come the demand for omnipotence.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 01, 2016 05:51 PM (WTSFk)

639 Maybe I'm ignorant, but I don't see boats landing daily to export this wonderful American labor liberated by the extinction of our manufacturing sector. I just see people living here unemployed and staying poor.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 05:51 PM (EioIi)

640 ... and they'll get it.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 01, 2016 05:52 PM (WTSFk)

641 face meet boot, forever.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 01, 2016 05:52 PM (WTSFk)

642 "Or we can pretend that this time, for the first time in
history, protectionism and government manipulation of labor markets will
work "

What else is the WTO but solidification of protectionism and government manipulation of labor markets?

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 05:53 PM (EioIi)

643 What other side of the equation? You can't even
explain what that is. The other side of the equation is that American
workers do things that assure them higher standards of living than
they'd have if they were in a production line working 12 hours per day
glueing cheap shoes.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 05:48 PM (89I+i)
You can rant but this will be my last reply as long as you keep saying the same crap with different, more numerous words. Explain how one buys cheap crap if you have no job. This is actually a very timely topic, since what we're really talking about here isn't China. It's automation. When most low skill jobs are performed by automation, how will unemployed people buy cheap goods at any price?

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 05:55 PM (LtMun)

644 "It would be funny as hell to see the expression on Mario's face when the media, who showed absolutely no interest in following up on Obama's down-low visits to "Man's Country" in Chicago, suddenly discover a newfound focus in digging up old gay-cruising rumors."

Oh god, I never even considered that. So true, though.

Posted by: holygoat at March 01, 2016 05:55 PM (fZoOs)

645
Soooooo the Rust Belt is a fiction?

Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 01, 2016 05:48 PM (EioIi)

----Rust Belt residents today have much higher standards of living than they had 50 years ago.

Economic progress always causes attrition. The typewriter industry in New England, Upper state NY and Illinois was destroyed by the advent of the personal computer in the late 70s and early 80s. Many historical firms disappeared, some towns have never recovered their former glory and likely never will. And sure, some guys probably lost their jobs and never found another till they retired - I'd guess most are dead by now. But their children and grandchildren enjoy much higher standards of living that they would in t he alternate universe where personal computers were never invented.

As I said, only 150 years ago, 80% of the American workforce was employed in the agricultural sector. Today is less 2%. We're all better off because of it.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 05:56 PM (89I+i)

646 639
Maybe I'm ignorant, but I don't see boats landing daily to export this
wonderful American labor liberated by the extinction of our
manufacturing sector. I just see people living here unemployed and
staying poor.

There are no unemployed in Alabi's unicorn utopia, just lazy, stupid, shiftless Americans.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 05:57 PM (LtMun)

647 285 Trump can't go full dictator. That's a false choice.

The media would never allow that.

Depends which way he dictates. If he's their sort, they'll sing his praises. I am a Cruz guy who would vote Trump but it's like picking up a cobra to ward off the charging bull. Maybe the cobra scares off the bull. Then bites me. Maybe the bull and the cobra both fuck me up. Or maybe I'll get lucky, scare off the bull and the cobra slithers away. But it's better than getting completely run over because you're scared of snakes.

Posted by: jsg at March 01, 2016 05:59 PM (BpjKQ)

648 103 We've had an asshole for 8 years, how's that workin' out?

You're holding it wrong. See the arrow? Turn it over. Look again. Not an asshole. That's a pussy.

Posted by: VideoSavant at March 01, 2016 06:00 PM (M9ra0)

649 ----Rust Belt residents today have much higher standards of living than they had 50 years ago.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 05:56 PM (89I+i)

Where does that living come from? It doesn't come from a job, and why do you constantly reference standard of living instead of wage? Quit beating around the bust and SAY IT. Say government provided minimum income. It's the only way your world works, that or 300 million bullets.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 06:00 PM (LtMun)

650 jsg: not bad.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 01, 2016 06:00 PM (WTSFk)

651 jsg: in fact, i like that analogy very much. cobra/ bull.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 01, 2016 06:03 PM (WTSFk)

652 You can rant but this will be my last reply as long
as you keep saying the same crap with different, more numerous words.
Explain how one buys cheap crap if you have no job. This is actually a
very timely topic, since what we're really talking about here isn't
China. It's automation. When most low skill jobs are performed by
automation, how will unemployed people buy cheap goods at any price?

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 05:55 PM (LtMun)
---
Yawn. Please explain how agricultural mechanization, then industrial automation, didn't translate into 90% unemployment rates?

Wasn't Obama blaming ATMs for killing jobs a handful of years ago? I just read that the banking sector now employs more people in America than at any point in history.

Technological progress has never killed jobs. There are more people employed today than ever in the history of the world. Global poverty is at its lowest point ever.

And if you don't have a job, look for one. With the current unemployment rate, the only people who stay unemployed long-term are those who aren't that interested in hard work or are happy enough sitting at home collecting disability checks. The guy next to me makes bottle breachers and hasn't been able to fill up jobs openings for 6 months now.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 06:04 PM (89I+i)

653 jsg: sort of has an a4esop fable quality/ there probably is a similar analogy from the classical world. they described just about the entirety of human circumstances.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 01, 2016 06:07 PM (WTSFk)

654
Technological progress has never killed jobs.
There are more people employed today than ever in the history of the
world. Global poverty is at its lowest point ever.
Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 06:04 PM (89I+i)

Then why has SS disability just gone bankrupt. You're unicorn fairy world has not unemployment does it? You can't compare agricultural automation to the automation that is coming. The state of California is already licensing self driving cars, for testing purposes. This is the logical conclusion to your world, but you keep blinding saying that the world has created more crap low paying, part time jobs than it ever has before. The crappiness of those jobs are only masked by a continual crap stream of cheap good from the third world which is why you keep references standard of living instead of wage. This to you is great because you're doing well, but you best look around the peasants are revolting.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 06:11 PM (LtMun)

655

Where does that living come from? It doesn't
come from a job, and why do you constantly reference standard of living
instead of wage? Quit beating around the bust and SAY IT. Say
government provided minimum income. It's the only way your world works,
that or 300 million bullets.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 06:00 PM (LtMun)

---Who told you that it doesn't come from a job? Basically everyone who's looking for a job nowadays can find one (that's why the unemployment rate is below 5%) and basically all those jobs pay a lot (at constant dollars, so adjusting for inflation) more than, say, a manufacturing job in the steel or automaking industry in the golden age of the Rust Belt.

I like the universal minimum income idea (a well-designed one, with salary subsidies) as a replacement to the current welfare system because it'd be more rational and efficient - and allow the government to fire thousands of bureaucrats (or at least to not hire anyone to replace them), not because of mass employment.

Here's what's sad for you but great for the rest of us: no matter how young or old you are, you'll die screaming about the mass unemployment that technological progress will bring - and you'll never see it materialize.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 06:11 PM (89I+i)

656 Who told you that it doesn't come from a job? Basically everyone who's
looking for a job nowadays can find one (that's why the unemployment
rate is below 5%)

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 06:11 PM (89I+i)

You don't have to lie so blatantly do you? You could have at least referenced U6, but nope instead you drop that big steaming pile of government shitistics. .

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 06:15 PM (LtMun)

657
Then why has SS disability just gone bankrupt.
You're unicorn fairy world has not unemployment does it? You can't
compare agricultural automation to the automation that is coming. The
state of California is already licensing self driving cars, for testing
purposes. This is the logical conclusion to your world, but you keep
blinding saying that the world has created more crap low paying, part
time jobs than it ever has before. The crappiness of those jobs are only
masked by a continual crap stream of cheap good from the third world
which is why you keep references standard of living instead of wage.
This to you is great because you're doing well, but you best look around
the peasants are revolting.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 06:11 PM (LtMun)

---
A guy who has a retail job working 29 hours at Walmart makes more money than his grandparent did working 40 hours at GMs line. That's why he also owns more stuff. You need to be exceedingly poor in today's America to live poorly than a middle-class American in the 60s.

Self-driving cars are fantastic and can be the next big productivity boost. Having able people spending their life driving around will make much sense for those living 200 years from now as having people spending their life digging potatoes manually makes to us.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 06:17 PM (89I+i)

658 A guy who has a retail job working 29 hours at
Walmart makes more money than his grandparent did working 40 hours at
GMs line.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 06:17 PM (89I+i)

Really you aren't even going to bother to correct for inflation? I'm really impressed by your ability to lie your fucking ass off.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 06:19 PM (LtMun)

659

You don't have to lie so blatantly do you?
You could have at least referenced U6, but nope instead you drop that
big steaming pile of government shitistics. .

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 06:15 PM (LtMun)

---
You clearly don't know much about these issues, but let me explain this to you: U6 includes people who ARE NOT LOOKING FOR JOBS, by definition.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 06:19 PM (89I+i)

660 In all seriousness. How can you say this " Establishment GOP types have not even pretended to engage in a serious debate. Their offer is simple: You do as we say, or we will throw the election to Hillary."

I'm not saying that this is not the case. I am saying that the redefined conservatives have, in mass, used the fig leaf of principles to hand Obama 8 years in office while Joe Shmoes's like myself held our noses and voted McCain and Romney as the establishment wanted.
I hate the establishment, hate them but in the name of honesty. They weren't the ones who left us at the alter and rendered conservatism irrelevant for near a decade and are gearing up to kill it completely for the next 8 years with Hillary.

Posted by: Drider at March 01, 2016 06:21 PM (6Xbsz)

661
Really you aren't even going to bother to
correct for inflation? I'm really impressed by your ability to lie your
fucking ass off.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 06:19 PM (LtMun)

---

It's corrected for inflation. At constant dollars, ppp.
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/49440The real median household income grew 46% in the US between 1979 and 2011.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 06:23 PM (89I+i)

662 Just got back from votin' for Cruz in the Georgia primary. 15 or so in front of me and 30+ behind by the time I got up front. Somehow I voted despite the raaaacists demanding I show them ID.

Posted by: Sam at March 01, 2016 06:27 PM (sO6CM)

663
You clearly don't know much about these issues, but
let me explain this to you: U6 includes people who ARE NOT LOOKING FOR
JOBS, by definition.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 06:19 PM (89I+i)

In contrast to the U-3 rate, the U-6 unemployment rate includes all of
these cases. Consequently, the U-6 rate is much truer to a natural,
non-technical understanding of what it means to be unemployed. By
capturing discouraged workers, underemployed workers and other folks who
exist on the margins of the labor market, the U-6 rate provides a broad
picture of the underutilization of labor in the country. In this sense,
the U-6 rate is the true unemployment rate.

I got that from investopedia.com. Why don't you email them and lie some more.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 06:27 PM (LtMun)

664 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/49440The real median household income grew 46% in the US between 1979 and 2011.

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 06:23 PM (89I+i)
For this to be a valid statistic you would have to correct for inflation and also correct for number of workers per household. I'm betting there were about double workers per household in 2011 than in 1979.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 06:30 PM (LtMun)

665 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/49440The real median household income

Posted by: Alabi at March 01, 2016 06:23 PM (89I+i)

"Government transfers, which include benefits from programs such as
Social Security, Medicare, and unemployment insurance, averaged
approximately $13,000 per household."

From the website. See you draw closer and closer to saying government supplied minimum income. It's inevitable in your world.

Posted by: DFCtomm at March 01, 2016 06:38 PM (LtMun)

666 These republicans sound awfully tough standing up to Trump. They would not have this problem if they stood up to Obama at least once.

Posted by: Bang-a-gong at March 01, 2016 06:41 PM (Z5Hgi)

667 Ace has figured our plan out. Doggone it, people like me.

Posted by: Angry Marco at March 01, 2016 06:49 PM (uNpJu)

668 Maybe I'm ignorant, but I don't see boats landing daily to export this wonderful American labor liberated by the extinction of our manufacturing sector.

Automated robotic plants were shut down and their production moved to 12-hour-shift plants in China.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at March 01, 2016 06:58 PM (kCfMX)

669 I'm a lurker - don't comment. I am so pissed at the Gov't. So pissed at the media, so pissed off I can't even verbalize it.

I want it burnt down, I want the earth salted where it stood.

The more the GOPe, Dems & Media panic over Trump, the more I want him to succeed.

This is a big giant FUCK YOU to the chattering classes that have ruined everything. Take your ZIRP, take your never-ending wars, take your unchecked immigration, take your trade deals & stagnant wages, and the rest of the crap you've shoveled out for the last 30+ years and shove them up your ass.

Posted by: Kenyg at March 01, 2016 07:27 PM (0s6C/)

670 I think Trump's main appeal is his status as the Politically Incorrect Candidate.

This is a social rebellion, and maybe not a political one.

Posted by: Max Power at March 01, 2016 08:00 PM (q177U)

671 ACE wrote: "Instead, they have consistently doubled-down on failure.

Again, like college-educated people do."

This is likel, too far down in the thread to receive a response, but, can someone unpack this remark about college-educated folk "doubl[ing]-down on failure"?

I am college-educated, and may have done this, but not sure what college had to do with it.

Posted by: College-Educated Person at March 01, 2016 08:05 PM (df8p8)

672 Lol, that's the best you can come up with???

Posted by: Blano at March 01, 2016 05:21 PM (uiVGU)

My...what a compelling line of reasoning you present.What is it you disagree with in the above post?

Posted by: Reality...Deal With It at March 01, 2016 08:21 PM (aRUb8)

673 Funny how everybody that has had dealing with Trump ovr the past 30+ years, vouches for his character and goodness.

He sure must be running a very long LONG CON. The longest of all time. Or you are really stupid. Hmmm.

Posted by: Traditionalguy at March 01, 2016 09:01 PM (RaGP7)

674 Because the dreaded "donor" class and the magnificent "job-creator" class are COMPLETELY different people. Oh, wait...

Posted by: Dave H at March 02, 2016 11:33 AM (xMMIg)

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