Tough Guy President Who Has Previously Bragged of Drawing Up His Kill Lists By Hand Now Says He Had Nothing to Do With Strike that Killed American Hostage


Sometimes Captain Kickass turns into President Urkel, Jonah Goldberg writes.

Today, both the Pentagon and the White House (in the form of Josh Earnest) went out of their way to make sure everyone knows Obama didn’t personally or specifically sign off on the drone attacks that tragically killed two hostages, including an American. This is curious. First of all, he's still responsible, as he himself said in his press conference. He set up and approved a system that lets these attacks happen. There’s something cowardly about honorably taking "full responsibility" in public, and then having your flacks go out and stage whisper "It really wasn't him."

...

[A plausible] explanation might have to do with his vanity. I can't help but think the implication we’re supposed to take away is that if Obama-The-Righteous had been paying attention, mistakes like this would not have been made. The military bureaucracy has failed Obama, who famously reads Marcus Aurelius as he composes his kill lists. At least he avoided saying that he found out about these attacks by reading about them in the paper, but the upshot is the same. The president doesn't make mistakes, others make mistakes implementing his will.


Posted by: Ace at 03:33 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 Can't be first?

Posted by: BignJames at April 23, 2015 03:34 PM (j7iSn)

2 The proles have failed him once again.

Posted by: Aviator at April 23, 2015 03:35 PM (b3p08)

3 What difference at this point does it make if he acted stupidly?

Posted by: LizLem, crossing the meme streams at April 23, 2015 03:35 PM (yRwC8)

4 Echo, echo, echo

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at April 23, 2015 03:35 PM (m3iiU)

5 I'm really good at killing people.

Posted by: Barack Obama at April 23, 2015 03:35 PM (FcR7P)

6 If only Comrade Obama knew about this drone program....

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at April 23, 2015 03:35 PM (h4vJk)

7 The world disappoints him again.

Posted by: Lauren at April 23, 2015 03:35 PM (7ZuHW)

8 They didn't target the American terrorists, see

They targeted the buildings they knew they were in

Those hostages? They acted stupidly

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 03:36 PM (zOTsN)

9 But racist picture.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 23, 2015 03:36 PM (W5DcG)

10 Not wrong, just mistaken.

Posted by: BignJames at April 23, 2015 03:36 PM (j7iSn)

11 Feckless fraktard

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 23, 2015 03:36 PM (Ei7xc)

12 Yep, Predictable as the sun rising.

Surprised he didn't also do the "No one is more surprised than me that this happened" shtick.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 23, 2015 03:37 PM (2TN4k)

13 Key difference: I liked Urkel.

Posted by: Hawkins1701 at April 23, 2015 03:37 PM (DBbiE)

14 Does this double-standard even strike liberals? Do they consciously ignore stuff like this or do they truly not see it?

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 03:37 PM (fwARV)

15 Whatever a White Night is, I think I want some.

Posted by: Minnfidel at April 23, 2015 03:38 PM (6GBAx)

16 I wonder if he's still getting the videos of the drone strikes sent to him.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 23, 2015 03:38 PM (S+el1)

17 It is absolutely stomach-churning that this cowardly, sniveling little weasel is the president of the United States.

Every idiot who voted for this feckless fool should hang their head in shame.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at April 23, 2015 03:38 PM (lmdHn)

18 I would have told them to stop the attack, but then I got high.

Posted by: Preezy Choom at April 23, 2015 03:38 PM (/HX7u)

19 This guy is turning into the revolutionary at the end of Woody Allen's "Bananas." What "turning into?" IS.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 23, 2015 03:38 PM (St6BJ)

20 F-that. Look, I realize innocent hostages were inadvertently killed. But frankly, that's one cost of war. That's two people in a sea of military heroes who were actually killed serving their country, not on some money-making or self-centered venture. I hate to sound callous, but my GAF meter is at zero.

It's why we call it a "war-zone".

The mission was a win because it achieved its objective and got a bonus-round terrorist in the process.

I would be standing up saying- yep, that was me. But I have courage.

Posted by: Marcus T at April 23, 2015 03:38 PM (GGCsk)

21 You see, as President I would have never had to grovel like this.

Because we'd have been wiping out entire towns full of AQ supporters and everyone would know exactly what the game was.

Posted by: JEM at April 23, 2015 03:38 PM (o+SC1)

22 The drone acted stupidly.

Posted by: Minnfidel at April 23, 2015 03:38 PM (6GBAx)

23 I watched a minute of it...no way I can take 5.

Posted by: BignJames at April 23, 2015 03:38 PM (j7iSn)

24 how many days of this bullshit are left?

Posted by: Feh at April 23, 2015 03:38 PM (wwy25)

25 The military bureaucracy has failed Obama

Much like his sand wedge.

Posted by: t-bird at April 23, 2015 03:38 PM (FcR7P)

26 Don't get high on your own supply.

Posted by: Marcus Aurelius at April 23, 2015 03:39 PM (8dNrT)

27 But it was nice of him to remind us yet again that he's the commander in chief. That line never gets old, huh?

Also how he loves to mention some crisis and then announce "I directed my [department] to [resolve it]" as if he deserved brownie points for being the one who said maybe someone should do something.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 23, 2015 03:39 PM (2TN4k)

28 Gaylord Merkin Focker the Wurst to Dr. Weinstein, "It was judged to be bad optics to show me doing stupid stuff, so yeah brah I did not order this strike. So care for a beer?"

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 23, 2015 03:39 PM (Ei7xc)

29 "how many days of this bullshit are left?"



Too. Many.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 23, 2015 03:39 PM (LA7Cm)

30 Courtiers

Posted by: Feh at April 23, 2015 03:39 PM (wwy25)

31 He and Barak Husain Obama go way back

Posted by: A pair of silver colered womens dumbells at April 23, 2015 03:39 PM (W6iIX)

32 Maybe I should run against Flake when his term is up. Certainly couldn't do a worse job even if I flipped a coin to determine how I'd vote on any particular item.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at April 23, 2015 03:40 PM (YEelc)

33 Echo, echo, echo

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at April 23, 2015 03:35 PM (m3iiU)


Pinch-hitting for Pedro Bourbon, Manny Mota...Mota...Mota...Mota....

Posted by: The voice in Ted Striker's head at April 23, 2015 03:40 PM (cL79m)

34 Does this double-standard even strike liberals? Do they consciously ignore stuff like this or do they truly not see it?


Yes.

If it weren't for double standards, liberals would have no standards at all.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 23, 2015 03:40 PM (1deOB)

35 >>Every idiot who voted for this feckless fool should hang their head in shame.

The rocks would fall out of their crack pipes.

Posted by: Aviator at April 23, 2015 03:40 PM (b3p08)

36 Remember the leak leading up to 2012 about how obama personally plans and orchestrates the kill list (for drone strikes) and how he sifts through and approves of each mission himself?

Heh. Neither do the LIVs. so I'm sure Obamas safe blaming the military for this one.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 03:40 PM (AkOaV)

37 Personal Jesus vid is never not creepy.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 23, 2015 03:40 PM (FsuaD)

38 If you want to make an omelet, you have to kill a few people.

Posted by: Marcus Aurelius at April 23, 2015 03:40 PM (8dNrT)

39 I bet Michelle is really proud of her country today!

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 03:40 PM (ftVQq)

40 And I'm a little sick of headlines like the WSJ blaring this puts the CIA drone missions in question.

No, it doesn't. It shows how effective they can be.

Collateral damage is a fact of war. It's not about "if" it will happen. It's when and how often.

Posted by: Marcus T at April 23, 2015 03:40 PM (GGCsk)

41
Do I have to note that Mr. Weinstein was Jewish? SCOAMF's give-a-fuck-o-meter was not registering a reading.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 23, 2015 03:41 PM (St6BJ)

42 JJ Sefton. How about Sleeper. Just need the steam roller and be totes President Rachel Corrie.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 23, 2015 03:41 PM (Ei7xc)

43 Killing civilians... in a neutral third country... with Military strikes...

WITHOUT Presidential authority???

I'll bet this was signed off, by the White House... but it was Susan Rice.... who, is NOT in the Military Chain of Command...

and thus... this was an UnLawful order.

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 03:41 PM (qh617)

44 Much like his sand wedge.

Posted by: t-bird at April 23, 2015 03:38 PM (FcR7P)


And his putter.

Posted by: steveegg at April 23, 2015 03:41 PM (cL79m)

45 What were those 2 fool hostages doing over there?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 03:41 PM (rDqRv)

46 how many days of this bullshit are left?


638.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 23, 2015 03:41 PM (1deOB)

47 "Do they consciously ignore stuff like this or do they truly not see it?"

Hey, if the country moves in the "Progressive" direction, who gives a shit, really.

Posted by: Feh at April 23, 2015 03:41 PM (wwy25)

48 Barak never ever works out with those slutty heavy black dumbells

Posted by: A pair of silver colored womens dumbells at April 23, 2015 03:41 PM (W6iIX)

49 He really is the lowest piece of dog shit

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 03:42 PM (zOTsN)

50 Has he blamed Bush yet?

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 03:42 PM (ftVQq)

51 He learned about the drone strike on the news. Or something.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 23, 2015 03:42 PM (FsuaD)

52 Back in the Crusades. when Bush first opened Gitmo and attacked school-age children with drone missile attacks, it was worse.

Posted by: Marie Harf-Harf-Harf at April 23, 2015 03:42 PM (FCsIb)

53 Soooo did the press ask who the fuck signed off on the strike. Or was Earnest's hand waving gesture enough?

Posted by: Minnfidel at April 23, 2015 03:42 PM (6GBAx)

54 Posted by: Marcus T at April 23, 2015 03:40 PM (GGCsk)

War? I wasn't aware that we were at war...

Who did we declare war on?

Or are you talking about the vague post-9/11 authorization of force against the planners of 9/11 and "all associated forces"?

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 03:42 PM (AkOaV)

55 42 JJ Sefton. How about Sleeper. Just need the steam roller and be totes President Rachel Corrie.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 23, 2015 03:41 PM (Ei7xc)


Substitute the ears for the nose and we're making this picture, baby!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 23, 2015 03:42 PM (St6BJ)

56 In the meantime, Gen. Petraeus was sentenced to two years probation and $100k fine today.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 23, 2015 03:42 PM (FsuaD)

57 >>how many days of this bullshit are left?


'Til Jesus.

Posted by: dogfish at April 23, 2015 03:42 PM (1vYi0)

58 Did I do that?

Posted by: Cincinnatus at April 23, 2015 03:42 PM (8dNrT)

59 OK.... do we know WHEN this strike happened???

And.... where was Obama????

Would be... delicious... if he was on F'n Vacation...

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 03:42 PM (qh617)

60 I vastly much prefer this music video set to Personal Jesus.

https://youtu.be/-ayl-WLOgqs

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 23, 2015 03:43 PM (Ei7xc)

61 Pure Obama...

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 23, 2015 03:43 PM (so+oy)

62 43 Killing civilians... in a neutral third country... with Military strikes...

WITHOUT Presidential authority???

I'll bet this was signed off, by the White House... but it was Susan Rice.... who, is NOT in the Military Chain of Command...

and thus... this was an UnLawful order.
Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 03:41 PM (qh617)

"We want to make sure we're not just air raiding villages and killing civilians...."

-Shit some Senator said once

Posted by: Hawkins1701 at April 23, 2015 03:43 PM (DBbiE)

63 That's Preznit Urkel X to you Mr. O'Spades..... if that is your REAL name......

Posted by: Preznit Urkel X at April 23, 2015 03:43 PM (fLKzW)

64 >> Barak never ever works out with those slutty heavy black dumbells

Thank goodness, I don't want to get sweaty with him.

Posted by: Mooch at April 23, 2015 03:43 PM (b3p08)

65 Remember the leak leading up to 2012 about how obama
personally plans and orchestrates the kill list (for drone strikes) and
how he sifts through and approves of each mission himself?



Heh. Neither do the LIVs. so I'm sure Obamas safe blaming the military for this one.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 03:40 PM (AkOaV)

If you point it out, their response will be, "Yeah, but that was a long time ago. Things have changed since then, and besides, he's too busy to do that all the time."

Posted by: Country Singer at April 23, 2015 03:43 PM (8hctH)

66 Would be... delicious... if he was on F'n Vacation...

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 03:42 PM (qh617)


January

Posted by: wrg500 at April 23, 2015 03:43 PM (S+el1)

67 Missed him by *that* much. Dammit.

Posted by: giant Everglades pythons at April 23, 2015 03:43 PM (FsuaD)

68 56 In the meantime, Gen. Petraeus was sentenced to two years probation and $100k fine today.


Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 23, 2015 03:42 PM (FsuaD)


Two years.... how... convenient....

Just long enough for Obama to be out of office...

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 03:43 PM (qh617)

69 And.. the thing is.. it took them 2-3 eff'n months to figure how to say it to the public.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 23, 2015 03:44 PM (so+oy)

70
I take full responsibility for this tragedy, except this one.

Posted by: Bracky Oididntdoit at April 23, 2015 03:44 PM (ODxAs)

71 If only we had more moderate, middle of the road candidates, he never would have been elected. This concerns me, deeply.

For optimum electability there should be few degrees of separation between the candidates. The idea of distinct differences and bold vibrant colors is a relic of our Neanderthal past.

Posted by: Concerned Christian Conservative at April 23, 2015 03:44 PM (xQX/f)

72 Has he blamed Bush yet?

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 03:42 PM (ftVQq)


Funny you mentioned that - Bush did authorize those strikes. I just have to stop at the local Kinko's to pick up that executive order.

Posted by: Teh SCOAMT at April 23, 2015 03:44 PM (cL79m)

73 this was an UnLawful order.

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 03:41 PM (qh617)

I keep wondering if they've dropped that part of basic training, because it sure seems like there are a lot of military complicit in these "adventures" "not" conducted by President Urkel (although I realize I am insulting Urkel there).

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 03:44 PM (ftVQq)

74 Seal Team Zero, prolapsing poultry since 2008.

Posted by: maddogg at April 23, 2015 03:44 PM (xWW96)

75 Hostages, schmostages. Thank Allah it wasn't a baby milk factory.

Posted by: Leonard Pinth-Garnell at April 23, 2015 03:44 PM (Ilm6f)

76 It's their own damn fault.

Posted by: Merry Harfwit at April 23, 2015 03:44 PM (wAQA5)

77 I'm indifferent to the SCoaMF antics today. The Republicans have proved that all questions are moot.

LiFB

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 23, 2015 03:44 PM (evdj2)

78 I laugh. Predicted it earlier this morning when he said, "I take full responsibility." Even before that, because Obama never takes responsibility for anything.

It wasn't his fault. That's why it had to be declassified so a thorough investigation could reveal it wasn't Obama's fault but the fault of some incompetent in the pentagon, at langley, somewhere, but not Obama who is blameless and a victim of incompetent fools who disappoint him every day.

Posted by: EphramKG36 at April 23, 2015 03:45 PM (gtXzt)

79 So, the guy who has personal kill list doesn't know how to operate an umbrella or throw a baseball. Wonderful.

Posted by: dantesed at April 23, 2015 03:45 PM (88xKn)

80 What were those 2 fool hostages doing over there?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 03:41 PM (rDqRv)


---------------------------------------


That's what I'm wondering too.

Posted by: Soona at April 23, 2015 03:45 PM (/HX7u)

81 It's all 100% political now. Shit that never should have been politicized, is.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 23, 2015 03:45 PM (OqR5R)

82 This is the duplicity people are sick of. And yet the Queen Bee of Duplicity is going to be the liberals candidate...

They don't GAF about this country.

Posted by: Marcus T, Drone Pilot at April 23, 2015 03:45 PM (GGCsk)

83 January

Posted by: wrg500 at April 23, 2015 03:43 PM (S+el1)


do we have a date??? because he was on VaCay until Jan 5 2014

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 03:46 PM (qh617)

84 I still hate the skinny Marxist for the mysterious downing of the 'copter with the SEAL team on board.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 23, 2015 03:46 PM (FsuaD)

85 Dr. Weinstein was in Pakistan helping the locals get better dairy production. Was living in a fortified compound. The murderous thugs stormed the place and took him hostage.

Almost four years ago.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 23, 2015 03:46 PM (Ei7xc)

86 It was not a military drone

It was a CIA drone, who reports to obama. He must have delegated the authority to them because he is a craven piece of dog shit

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 03:46 PM (zOTsN)

87 It was not a military drone

It was a CIA drone, who reports to obama. He must have delegated the authority to them because he is a craven piece of dog shit

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 03:46 PM (zOTsN)

88 politicize everything

Posted by: brak at April 23, 2015 03:46 PM (Tj+s6)

89 Where does a career soldier get $100,000?

Susan Rice must be very worried, now that she has openly released classified info on Iran. And the administration folks who handed over Seal operating methods to the Zero Dark Thirty film producers must be frightened as well.

Posted by: MTF at April 23, 2015 03:46 PM (FCsIb)

90 I, for one, respect the man's courage. It shows true grit to abdicate your responsibilities.

Posted by: Jeb Bush at April 23, 2015 03:46 PM (FcR7P)

91 I was all painted up and ready to go in... HOT... to save the Jooo, but the military acted Stupidly and vaporized everyone before I got to go.

Posted by: Preznit Urkel X at April 23, 2015 03:46 PM (fLKzW)

92 80 What were those 2 fool hostages doing over there?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 03:41 PM (rDqRv)


---------------------------------------


That's what I'm wondering too.

Posted by: Soona at April 23, 2015 03:45 PM (/HX7u)


American was in Pakistan helping them produce more milk... as a contractor... was doing a great job by all reports...

He was kidnapped from his compound... in Pakistan...

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 03:47 PM (qh617)

93 What were those 2 fool hostages doing over there?

Read the sidebar from Yid.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 23, 2015 03:47 PM (evdj2)

94 I hate the skinny Marxist for wearing that bomber jacket.

Posted by: dantesed at April 23, 2015 03:47 PM (88xKn)

95 >>What were those 2 fool hostages doing over there?
<<

The American was working for an agricultural company. He knew the risks and even lived on a "guarded" compound. Still he went.

The Italian was an aid worker. He knew the risks also.

Posted by: Marcus T, Drone Pilot at April 23, 2015 03:47 PM (GGCsk)

96 Nobody is madder than me, and I will not rest until the persons responsible are held accountable.

Posted by: Hussein the Magnificent, your Commander-In-Chief!!! at April 23, 2015 03:47 PM (wAQA5)

97 I still hate the skinny Marxist for the mysterious downing of the 'copter with the SEAL team on board.


Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 23, 2015 03:46 PM (FsuaD)

That one's just somewhere in the middle of my list!

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 03:48 PM (ftVQq)

98 The Doctor was there as part of USAID and was four days away from retirement. The Italian was an aid worker too

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 03:48 PM (zOTsN)

99 I'm still giggling over the fact that Gadahn the American spent his youth on a goat farm.

hee

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 23, 2015 03:48 PM (FsuaD)

100 87 It was not a military drone

It was a CIA drone, who reports to obama. He must have delegated the authority to them because he is a craven piece of dog shit

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 03:46 PM (zOTsN)


If so... then it is an assassination, pure and simple...

The CIA are SPIES... they are not covered by the Laws of Armed Conflict.

And even the President is not supposed to be able to assassinate people....

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 03:49 PM (qh617)

101 Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 03:46 PM (qh617)

NYT just says January

Posted by: wrg500 at April 23, 2015 03:49 PM (S+el1)

102 If Obama ran a football team:

(First possession.)

Announcer:
"Touchdown for the home team!"

Coach:
"Damn I was brilliant calling for that Hail Mary pass. All credit to me, the coaching genius!"

(Second possession.)

Announcer:
"Disastrous interception -- the other team has run it all the way back for a touchdown themselves!"

Coach:
"My incompetent quarterback shouldn't have thrown that stupid Hail Mary pass!"

Posted by: zombie at April 23, 2015 03:49 PM (K4YiS)

103 "Does this double-standard even strike liberals? Do they consciously ignore stuff like this or do they truly not see it?"

It's the classic 'doublethink' right out of 1984. Their brains are incapable of registering the thought. It's like an optical illusion, their eyes can't see it. It's completely unconscious, completely involuntary.

Posted by: EphramKG36 at April 23, 2015 03:49 PM (gtXzt)

104 Posted by: MTF at April 23, 2015 03:46 PM (FCsIb)

Took me a minute there!

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 03:49 PM (ftVQq)

105 If only my tee shots were as accurate.

Posted by: King Putt at April 23, 2015 03:49 PM (8ZskC)

106
You all know I weigh 10 pounds each.
Barak has to share me with a 71yo woman

Posted by: A pair of silver colored womens dumbells at April 23, 2015 03:49 PM (W6iIX)

107 Bin Laden raid.....I I I I I I I I Me Me Me Me Me Me Me My Administration, At my direction. Ordered. Sleeves rolled up in Sit room. I I I I I I I Me Me Me Me.

Today. Hey I had no fucking clue man.

Posted by: Minnfidel at April 23, 2015 03:49 PM (6GBAx)

108 >>I'm still giggling over the fact that Gadahn the American spent his youth on a goat farm.<<

I'm giggling the goats are now eating his entrails.

I bet there is a special place in hell for traitors bent on mass murder and world domination.

Posted by: Marcus T, Drone Pilot at April 23, 2015 03:50 PM (GGCsk)

109 The right answer for this is to say "yes, I told them to go through with it, and I feel terrible about the way those evil men taking hostages cost them their lives."

Turn it on the hostage-takers. If they hadn't done that in the first place, nobody would have been there to die. Make them the bad guy, don't puss out and pass the buck. But if your ego is too big, you can't admit wrongdoing, even if it was for right reasons.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 23, 2015 03:50 PM (39g3+)

110 If he wasn't distracted by the GOP Congress's obstructionism, he'd have been right on top of this before it happened.

Posted by: Roy at April 23, 2015 03:51 PM (VndSC)

111 I'm still giggling over the fact that Gadahn the American spent his youth on a goat farm.

Let's just say that nobody here misses him.

Posted by: A Goat With Permanent Anal Leakage at April 23, 2015 03:51 PM (8ZskC)

112 Common Core Math has taught me that if you divide fault in half, then in half again and continue to do so it will eventually disappear.
Or was that Shaolin philosophy from a tv show?

Posted by: Man from Wazzustan at April 23, 2015 03:51 PM (uPxUo)

113 And even the President is not supposed to be able to assassinate people....

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 03:49 PM (qh617)

That's oldspeak. In newspeak, the Constitution (invisible Obama edition) lists things the government can do TO you!

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 03:51 PM (ftVQq)

114 Sefton, it will be comedic gold.

Now imagine this baby, our clueless hero has awoken in the far future. He had gone in for a simple operation under Obamacare but got flash frozen.... and this bunch of PITA fighters find his capsule and thaw him out... but then the anti-PITA forces kidnap him... and as he is being whisked away to be studied like Bugs Bunny the new and improved Obamacare v2.0 software declares he's an eminent surgeon. So he is hustled off to a hush hush project. The PITA forces have blown up Ear Leader and they need him to be cloned from a remaining ear.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 23, 2015 03:51 PM (Ei7xc)

115 They are spies. Not covered by LOAC. Authorized by the CIC who is Obama, using the order to go after Al Qaeda to go after other islamic terrorists, saying they didn't target individuals. They targeted buildings. See the difference. That's the fig leaf

Personally I am unbothered by hit lists of foreign unlawful combatants

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 03:52 PM (zOTsN)

116 BB WOLF @ 100: "And even the President is not supposed to be able to assassinate people...."

Most presidents, anyway. This one's special.

Posted by: FireHorse at April 23, 2015 03:52 PM (8dNrT)

117 What were those 2 fool hostages doing over there?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 03:41 PM (rDqRv)


Not sure about the other hostage, but Warren Weinstein worked for USAID (a fed.gov org) in Lahore, Pakistan for ten years before he got snatched in 2011. Can't really blame him for being there when he was working for the US Government.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my hate cannot be found) at April 23, 2015 03:52 PM (O9qtX)

118 Gadahn was a goat f***er. (fill in the blanks)

Posted by: Roy at April 23, 2015 03:52 PM (VndSC)

119 Ace - Congrats on the mention in The Morning Jolt

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 23, 2015 03:52 PM (F2IAQ)

120 Years ago I read Stevie Wonder's response to criticism that he wasn't as good in concert as on his records. He said, of course not. On the records I play every instrument but in concert I can't and there's only one Stevie Wonder.

Pretty much the same thing.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 23, 2015 03:53 PM (XUKZU)

121
>>Obama, who famously reads Marcus Aurelius

Ima call bullshit on this one.

Posted by: Lea at April 23, 2015 03:53 PM (lIU4e)

122 this was an UnLawful order.

Posted by: BB WOLF,


It's been 14+ years, isn't this hobby horse of yours due for a repaint?

Posted by: DaveA at April 23, 2015 03:53 PM (DL2i+)

123 American was in Pakistan helping them produce more milk... as a contractor... was doing a great job by all reports...

He was kidnapped from his compound... in Pakistan...
Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 03:47 PM (qh617)

The Jewish Dope did not get the memo that pakistan was a dangerous place? The fuckin idit never heard of Daniel Pearl?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 03:54 PM (rDqRv)

124 "And even the President is not supposed to be able to assassinate people...."


He didn't.

He blew up a building.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 03:54 PM (fwARV)

125 112 Common Core Math has taught me that if you divide fault in half, then in half again and continue to do so it will eventually disappear.
Posted by: Man from Wazzustan


That's not true. There is a quantum guilt unit, which cannot be subdivided any further.

It is called the obamon.

It has strangeness, charm, and as for spin "orientation" it's definitely a bottom.

Posted by: zombie at April 23, 2015 03:54 PM (K4YiS)

126 And even the President is not supposed to be able to assassinate people....
Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 03:49 PM (qh617)

Pfft. That's the whole POINT of the drone program.

To assassinate people around the world. And thus not have to put them in Gitmo, or try them in court, or whatever.

I think its ... funny(?) that the dems spent 8 years bitching about gitmo prisoners and "undeclared wars" then when they get in power, they are all good with the president assassinating people around the world with no due process or trial or even an effort to interrogate them... not only to make sure we have the right guy, but to see if he has any intel.

Drone strikes happen all over the fuckin place. No war declared, no rhyme or reason. Just Obama saying "I picked these people for my kill list, because they were bad."

Uh, okay, champ. Sweet.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 03:54 PM (AkOaV)

127 Where does a career soldier get $100,000?


Posted by: MTF at April 23, 2015 03:46 PM (FCsIb)


Oh, we'll be garnishing his retirement checks for quite some time. Probably for the next 20 years. Because when it comes to screwing with your bank accounts and paychecks, the IRS ain't got shit on us.
Besides, his retired pay as a general is about $10k a month.

Posted by: Defense Finance and Accounting Service at April 23, 2015 03:54 PM (8hctH)

128 And even the President is not supposed to be able to assassinate people....

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 03:49 PM (qh617)

That's oldspeak. In newspeak, the Constitution (invisible Obama edition) lists things the government can do TO you!


Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 03:51 PM (ftVQq)


It is an outdated document full of negative rights.

Posted by: BHO at April 23, 2015 03:54 PM (L7qFk)

129 I think the EO only forbids the President from assassinating foreign heads of state.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 23, 2015 03:54 PM (evdj2)

130 >> Can't really blame him for being there when he was working for the US Government.<<

Blame? No. He didn't kidnap himself. But he chose to go and knew the risks. It's not like he didn't have a part or a choice.

Posted by: Marcus T, Drone Pilot at April 23, 2015 03:54 PM (GGCsk)

131 >>And even the President is not supposed to be able to assassinate people....


And yet he's been doing it for years.

Which is precisely why his anti-torture and gitmo stances - "We're better than this" - are so ridiculous. But most on the left just ignore the drone stuff.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 23, 2015 03:54 PM (2TN4k)

132 Bin Laden: "I, I, I, I, I, my, my, my," ad nauseam.

Benghazi: "Wut?"

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 23, 2015 03:54 PM (FsuaD)

133 Gadahn was a goat f***er. (fill in the blanks)

Posted by: Roy at April 23, 2015 03:52 PM (VndSC)


Allow me...

Gadahn was is a goat fucker.

Posted by: Blank filler at April 23, 2015 03:54 PM (cL79m)

134 Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 03:54 PM (fwARV)

We didn't nuke the Japanese people, we just simply blew up a bomb over Japan.

Got it.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 03:55 PM (AkOaV)

135 The president doesn't make mistakes, others make mistakes implementing his will.

I read that as "implementing his Will" and my heart skipped a hopeful beat.

Posted by: kathysaysso at April 23, 2015 03:55 PM (fMQoG)

136 Add moral coward to resume of the pos.

Posted by: jondoran@angstyquestions at April 23, 2015 03:56 PM (g1MTt)

137 And yet he's been doing it for years.

Which is precisely why his anti-torture and gitmo stances - "We're better than this" - are so ridiculous. But most on the left just ignore the drone stuff.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 23, 2015 03:54 PM (2TN4k)


He's just practicing for the end of 2016, when he turns the apparatus on you.

Posted by: Average Leftist progtard at April 23, 2015 03:56 PM (cL79m)

138 there's only one Stevie Wonder.

Pretty much the same thing.


Except in the case of Stevie Wonder, he's right. His kind of talent only comes around once every few centuries.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 23, 2015 03:56 PM (39g3+)

139 Pakistanis say it was January 15..

apparently the O was at the Whitehouse...

Yet didn't make the decision...

CIA works for???? Susan Rice....

The CIA just assassinated an American citizen.... and they will tell us 'its legal'....

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 03:57 PM (qh617)

140 Kay Adams: Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed.
Michael: Oh. Who's being naive, Kay?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 03:57 PM (rDqRv)

141 Lynch approved...., am I late to the party with this?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 23, 2015 03:57 PM (F2IAQ)

142 He is only prohibited from killing foreign heads of state. They can lawfully target unlawful combatant foreign nationals. They cannot target terrorist traitor unlawful combatants like gadhhan. They get around that by saying the target was the building, not the man. I'm ok with that

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 03:57 PM (zOTsN)

143 From the Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_12036

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 23, 2015 03:57 PM (evdj2)

144 What a pathetic excuse for a leader, and an administration. Just cfuckin pathetic. The GOP is every bit as much as fault for iys comprehensive failure to exercise its responsibility to check this asshat. And the MSM is complicit too.

Cfuck them all. *spits*

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead on a new tablet at April 23, 2015 03:57 PM (60Vyp)

145 Commander in chief used to be a full-time position.

Posted by: m at April 23, 2015 03:57 PM (WIUGG)

146 You would be surprised how many Americans are living and working in the Hindu Kush. Let's just say cover companies that are working for the *cough* agency *cough*. They are compensated very very well for the stints they serve over there.

Posted by: Name Redacted..... Because at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (fLKzW)

147 Look, he gets plausible deniability. What if he knew Gadahn was there and just let it rip, then said "we didn't have this conversation".

In that case, I could care less. It's unfortunate that hostages were killed. But that is part of the unpredictability of war.

Posted by: Marcus T, Drone Pilot at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (GGCsk)

148 I think it's about time for Americans to embrace a man from a strong political family. Someone who embraces love, and family, and realizes artificial borders can not keep that love alive. Yes, Jeb Bush. Moderate.

Posted by: Concerned Christian Conservative at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (xQX/f)

149 WHAT THE FUCK does taking responsibility mean?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (QyBQv)

150 Every time I watch the Personal Jesus vid, I get the urge to throat-punch every.single. LIV gazing at him with longing.

And f*ck Oprah in particular.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (FsuaD)

151 Commander in chief used to be a full-time position.

Posted by: m at April 23, 2015 03:57 PM (WIUGG)


Now it's just like every other position in the ObamiNation - part-time.

Posted by: steveegg at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (cL79m)

152 BB WOLF @ 100: "And even the President is not supposed to be able to assassinate people...."


Most presidents, anyway. This one's special.
Posted by: FireHorse


Well bless his heart.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (1deOB)

153 Lynch approved...., am I late to the party with this?
Posted by: Mike Hammer
-------------------

* belatedly checks last thread *

Yup.
A thread late, and a dollar short.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (F2IAQ)

154 Personally I am unbothered by hit lists of foreign unlawful combatants
Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 03:52 PM (zOTsN)

Yeah? Prove to me who these unlawful combatants are, and what makes them "combatants" ?

Because that's the real crux of it... We have one man (Obama) deciding on these things.

Does a goat herder in yemen carrying an AK count as an unlawful enemy combatant? Even if the only combat he's seen has been against other not uniformed Yemeni tribesmen?

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (AkOaV)

155 We didn't nuke the Japanese people, we just simply blew up a bomb over Japan.

Got it.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 03:55 PM (AkOaV)


It's similar to the regs stating that we can't use high-explosive rounds against infantry.

We can use them against their equipment though.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (fwARV)

156 WHAT THE FUCK does taking responsibility mean?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (QyBQv)


In the ObamiNation, it's blaming Bush (or if in Wisconsin, Walker).

Posted by: steveegg at April 23, 2015 03:59 PM (cL79m)

157 125
Damn you, metaphysics majors!

Posted by: Man from Wazzustan at April 23, 2015 03:59 PM (uPxUo)

158 >>Obama, who famously reads Marcus Aurelius

Ima call bullshit on this one.


Asterix, Aurelius...what difference does it make?

Posted by: t-bird at April 23, 2015 03:59 PM (FcR7P)

159 The buck never stops at Obama's desk.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 03:59 PM (gmeXX)

160 They get around that by saying the target was the building, not the man.


They didn't know he was there (wink, wink) just that he liked to hangout there.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 23, 2015 03:59 PM (S+el1)

161 And f*ck Oprah in particular.


Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM
......Oh it's "her favorite things".

Posted by: Gale at April 23, 2015 03:59 PM (6GBAx)

162 Speaking of Obama fibs:

"I'm watching this WH presser. When asked if the U.S. tried to get them released Earnest said 'The U.S. does not negotiate with terrorists.'"

Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 23, 2015 04:00 PM (XUKZU)

163 145
Commander in chief used to be a full-time position.



I'm a multi-tasker. What can I say? It's a gift.

Posted by: Preezy Choom at April 23, 2015 04:00 PM (FsuaD)

164 Asterix, Aurelius what difference does it make?

A few potions by Getafix

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 23, 2015 04:00 PM (39g3+)

165 Yeah? Prove to me who these unlawful combatants are, and what makes them "combatants" ?

Because that's the real crux of it... We have one man (Obama) deciding on these things.

Does a goat herder in yemen carrying an AK count as an unlawful enemy combatant? Even if the only combat he's seen has been against other not uniformed Yemeni tribesmen?

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (AkOaV)


This is going to read like snark, but it is not meant that way.

Would you truly have committee hearings to discuss each and every individual we kill prior to the killing of that individual?

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:00 PM (fwARV)

166 "I'm watching this WH presser. When asked if the U.S. tried to get them released Earnest said 'The U.S. does not negotiate with terrorists.'"

Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 23, 2015 04:00 PM (XUKZU)

Except for when we do.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:01 PM (fwARV)

167 Lying liars who lie.

Posted by: Killerdog at April 23, 2015 04:01 PM (FFE0p)

168 Lynch approved...., am I late to the party with this?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 23, 2015 03:57 PM
.....Yes. Now go vote GOP! Cuz, err, we're different err. wait wut?

Posted by: Minnfidel at April 23, 2015 04:01 PM (6GBAx)

169 I wonder what this filthy bunch in the WH have in store for the last (hopefully) year of his term. *shudder*

Posted by: Soona at April 23, 2015 04:01 PM (/HX7u)

170 81
It's all 100% political now. Shit that never should have been politicized, is.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk
+++++++++++++++

Who you talking about, us?!

Posted by: IRS, DOJ, BATF, DHS, DOE, State etc at April 23, 2015 04:02 PM (g1MTt)

171 *crawls under desk and sobs*

"US does not negotiate with terrorists."

Did the fawning media even ask, "But what about the Bergdahl swap?"

Bet not. So will stay under the desk.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 23, 2015 04:02 PM (Ei7xc)

172
Because that's the real crux of it... We have one man (Obama) deciding on these things.


Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (AkOaV)

worse... this hit was not even approved BY the President...

so some CIA Flunky, or Susan Rice... killed an American Citizen.

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:02 PM (qh617)

173 Didn't they get the memo from Marie Harf that they shouldn't be over there? It's their own fault!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 23, 2015 04:02 PM (so+oy)

174 159
The buck never stops at Obama's desk.



Actual Choom Boy quote: "As Harry Truman said, 'The buck stops with you.'"


He really is "special."

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 23, 2015 04:02 PM (FsuaD)

175 We're in a WAR whether that putz in the White House will admit it and in a War, people get killed. The object is to WIN the War so the War stops and people stop getting killed. I am not going to go to a shrink everytime some innocent gets killed in a War. Grow up people

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 04:02 PM (rDqRv)

176 The GOP is every bit as much as fault for iys comprehensive failure to exercise its responsibility

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead on a new tablet at April 23, 2015 03:57 PM (60Vyp)


The GOP DC Establishment has risen to the challenge of completely abdicating its sacred Constitutional responsibilities and succeeded beyond the wildest dreams of their liberal/progressive/socialist partners in effecting the destruction of this country!

At least they're not talking about bringing Prohibition back!

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 04:02 PM (ftVQq)

177 They were blown up at the al Qaeda club house, hanging out with Al Qaeda people, talking Al Qaeda talk, doing Al Qaeda things. Pretty good evidence of being an unlawful enemy combatant. And I don't believe for a minute they didn't know the American traitors were in those building when they droned them. I am ok with that Gadhhan was a traitor

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 04:02 PM (zOTsN)

178 You know what makes me giggle to myself? How President Obama has famously and repeatedly stated he doesn't like to read and doesn't read much, while President Bush devoured books all year long... yet the left thinks it was Bush who was the idiot illiterate who never read a book and Obama the literate genius.

Its so cute.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 23, 2015 04:02 PM (39g3+)

179 "I'm watching this WH presser. When asked if the U.S. tried to get them released Earnest said 'The U.S. does not negotiate with terrorists.'"

Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 23, 2015 04:00 PM (XUKZU)
..................Paging Mr. Bergdahl. Would a Mr.Bergdahl please pick up the red courtesy phone.

Posted by: Minnfidel at April 23, 2015 04:02 PM (6GBAx)

180 WHAT THE FUCK does taking responsibility mean?
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian
----------------------------

It means, "I get a pass on this, because of the magnificence of my being."

Or...., talk is cheap.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 23, 2015 04:03 PM (F2IAQ)

181 They were blown up at the al Qaeda club house, hanging out with Al Qaeda people, talking Al Qaeda talk, doing Al Qaeda things. Pretty good evidence of being an unlawful enemy combatant. And I don't believe for a minute they didn't know the American traitors were in those building when they droned them. I am ok with that Gadhhan was a traitor
Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 04:02 PM (zOTsN)

Amen

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 04:03 PM (rDqRv)

182 Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (fwARV)

Yeah, i'm not comfortable with that kind of parsing when it comes to blowing up people / buildings around the world based on one mans say so.

We have a 15 year old vague as shit authorization of force that specifically mentions 9/11 and groups tied to it.

It's a HUGE stretch to be using that to justify killing people all across the ME / Africa / Hindu Kush based on a war resolution THAT old that didn't even really specify who the enemy was. "Al Qaeda and associated forces" has been stretched to mean... well, anyone. Especially since Obama tells us "core Al Qaeda" is on the run, and these other jihadi groups (many of whom have had very public, open breaks with AQ command) are JV teams.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:03 PM (AkOaV)

183 When asked if the U.S. tried to get them released Earnest said 'The U.S. does not negotiate with terrorists.'"


ah, ah bergdahl. excuse me

Posted by: wrg500 at April 23, 2015 04:03 PM (S+el1)

184 >>'The U.S. does not negotiate with terrorists*.'"


*Which is why we've removed the Taliban and others from the official list of terrorist organization.

Easy, peasy - no longer talking to "terrorists"!

Posted by: Lizzy at April 23, 2015 04:03 PM (2TN4k)

185 173 Didn't they get the memo from Marie Harf that they shouldn't be over there? It's their own fault!
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry
-----------------------------

The way they were dressed, they were asking for it.

Posted by: Roy at April 23, 2015 04:04 PM (VndSC)

186 F-that. Look, I realize innocent hostages were inadvertently killed. But frankly, that's one cost of war. That's two people in a sea of military heroes who were actually killed serving their country, not on some money-making or self-centered venture. I hate to sound callous, but my GAF meter is at zero.

It's why we call it a "war-zone".

The mission was a win because it achieved its objective and got a bonus-round terrorist in the process.

I would be standing up saying- yep, that was me. But I have courage.


-----


I haven't heard the press conference, but in general I am in agreement with your thoughts:

1. Is there anything to apologize for? As a nation? Or is it just a casualty of war?

2. That being said, it is simply unseemly for Mr. I Got OBL to disclaim any responsibilty.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:04 PM (gmeXX)

187 'The U.S. does not negotiate with terrorists.'"
Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 23, 2015 04:00 PM (XUKZU)

Of course not, they just give away the store.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 23, 2015 04:04 PM (QyBQv)

188 "I'm watching this WH presser. When asked if the U.S. tried to get them
released Earnest said 'The U.S. does not negotiate with terrorists.'"



Thus, the Americans (including a former Marine) languishing in an Iranian prison.


*rage meter: pegged*

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 23, 2015 04:04 PM (FsuaD)

189 Now it's just like every other position in the ObamiNation - part-time.

Posted by: steveegg at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (cL79m)

At least he doesn't work more than 30 hours per week!

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 04:05 PM (ftVQq)

190 The U.S. does not negotiate with terrorists.

But we'll represent the hell out of them so they finish their nuclear weapons!

Posted by: t-bird at April 23, 2015 04:05 PM (FcR7P)

191 Great, when do we impeach Prezzy Cakeboy and try him for treason?

Amazing how he was totes in on the Osama Bin Laden thing, and everything else under his watch, he claims total intellectual non-curiousity or blames it on underlings.

So, it's either blatant deceit or mind-numbing ineptness? And he never, EVER suffers for it?

Yeah, remind me again about how poor Bammy McGolf suffers from any racism at all -- aside from the Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations, I mean?

Posted by: acethepug at April 23, 2015 04:05 PM (WK825)

192 It's a HUGE stretch to be using that to justify killing people all across the ME / Africa / Hindu Kush based on a war resolution THAT old that didn't even really specify who the enemy was.

I agree, but its pretty clear the Obama administration does not give a crap about congressional approval, law, or authorization.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 23, 2015 04:05 PM (39g3+)

193 He delegated his authority to drone to the CIA in their ROE. Gives him plausible deniability. Gives them flexability and speed to act.

Do you really think a president approves every single shot fired?

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 04:05 PM (zOTsN)

194 Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:03 PM (AkOaV)

I understand your point, truly I do.

However.

What kind of conference would you like to have prior to each trigger getting pulled or each bomb being released?

Combat is fluid, and I'm telling you from personal experience that a lot of shit can go sideways in the 45 seconds it takes to call in a fire request.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:05 PM (fwARV)

195 Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 04:02 PM (zOTsN)

Uhh... I thought you were a lawyer.

You're okay that Obama unlawfully killed an American citizen because "eh, fuck that guy"?

Hmmm, okay.

My point is that we're taking selective leaks from the administration at their word as to who these guys are.

We don't know. They're not on battle fields. They're not in uniform. They're not even located in countries in which we have a declared war with.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:05 PM (AkOaV)

196 Sorry, Nevergiveup, but SCOAMT declared the war on terror over. We aren't in a war anymore. Its an 'overseas contingency operation'.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my hate cannot be found) at April 23, 2015 04:05 PM (O9qtX)

197 I am ok with that Gadhhan was a traitor

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 04:02 PM (zOTsN)


then he should have been tried for treason, in absentia... and given a death sentence, or his citizenship revoked...

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:05 PM (qh617)

198 Now it's just like every other position in the ObamiNation - part-time.

And he probably thinks he's under-employed.

Posted by: t-bird at April 23, 2015 04:06 PM (FcR7P)

199 "Ima call bullshit on this one."

No, no - I can vouch. Not every day - usually on a late Sunday afternoon, after an early dinner but before "AFV" he breaks out the old Ouija board and I dictate. (Barack is quite good at Latin, by the way.) Anyway, I've been toying with some new Meditations, and your President has been most helpful in the editing process - tweaking here, offering le mot juste there. Sometimes we just chat. It's good that you have a true warrior leading your nation. I do hope you appreciate him and his leadership.

Posted by: Marcus Aurelius at April 23, 2015 04:06 PM (8dNrT)

200
@165

I hear what you're saying, and I chose to take NS in law school (not LOAC, but NS), and this still sits badly in my stomach. I understand that the President is the CiC, and I understand that the reality of the situation we're in means there's no perfect solution, but surely there's an alternative to the executive having a kill list with little to no outside oversight whatsoever?

Posted by: lurkingestlurker at April 23, 2015 04:06 PM (k8xvx)

201 Obama needs another acronym, LMCBW - Little Miss Can't Be Wrong.

Posted by: Roy at April 23, 2015 04:06 PM (VndSC)

202 It's similar to the regs stating that we can't use high-explosive rounds against infantry. We can use them against their equipment though.
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 03:58 PM (fwARV)


-----------------------------------------


Never heard of that in all my years in the military. I call, horseshit.

Posted by: Soona at April 23, 2015 04:06 PM (/HX7u)

203 If I got taken hostage by IS or some other radical Muslim group, I'd figure I was dead and hope these choads got droned.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 23, 2015 04:06 PM (39g3+)

204 Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:05 PM (fwARV)

this is not combat....

this was done by the CIA...

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:06 PM (qh617)

205 Sorry, Nevergiveup, but SCOAMT declared the war on terror over. We aren't in a war anymore. Its an 'overseas contingency operation'.
Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my hate cannot be found) at April 23, 2015 04:05 PM (O9qtX)

The SCOAMT can go fuck himself.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 04:06 PM (rDqRv)

206 If you think Obama is responsible for the drone strike that killed Americans: You're a racist.
If you oppose Obama's expanded use of drone strikes to kill terrorists: You're a racist.


Also: Remember when John Woo was a War Criminal because he wrote a memo that W relied upon to support the use of drone strikes?

Posted by: RoyalOil at April 23, 2015 04:06 PM (ZvKdv)

207 At least he doesn't work more than 30 hours per week!

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 04:05 PM (ftVQq)


Come on - I put in a full 40 on my golf game.

Posted by: Teh SCOAMT at April 23, 2015 04:06 PM (cL79m)

208 We don't know. They're not on battle fields. They're not in uniform. They're not even located in countries in which we have a declared war with.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:05 PM (AkOaV)


Every statement you just made was true for bin Laden too.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:06 PM (fwARV)

209 *crawls under desk and sobs*

"US does not negotiate with terrorists."

Did the fawning media even ask, "But what about the Bergdahl swap?"

-
And what about the nuke negotiations with the weird beards?

Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 23, 2015 04:07 PM (XUKZU)

210 Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:05 PM (fwARV)

If we're going to be at war, then we need declared wars naming countries.

If we're not going to be at war (with, say, Yemen or Pakistan) then we can't be blowing people up over there. Because there's a thin line (nowadays, apparently) between "war" and "assassinating people from the sky based on sketchy intel" and I'm not comfortable with our country doing that. Especially without any oversight, due process, or anything. it seems very... unamerican to me.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:07 PM (AkOaV)

211 I take full responsibility for this drone strike that killed two innocent US Citizens. I, me, myself, an anonymous nobody in middle america.

It was all my fault. I failed to speak up, to speak out, to blog, to go in front of the TV cameras and face hostile questions from media reporters. I failed to raise awareness, failed to ask questions, failed to write my representatives in congress, failed to rally people to the cause of honor in the face of lawless mobs.

It is my fault those men died because I lacked the courage to do something to prevent these horrific missile strikes against unsuspecting people. I failed to speak out against the imperial BUSH and his war mongering imperialism and oppression of distant cultures that led us all to this moment in time.

I lacked the courage to speak, and now I am ashamed.

Posted by: EphramKG36 at April 23, 2015 04:07 PM (gtXzt)

212 Just wanted to let you know, I coined "Captain Kickass" some time ago. I was the first one to appreciate the Captain's Awwwwwssooomenesssss........

I'm glad you've finally seen the light and so, please spread the word on Captain Kickass' awesomeness. Spread the word, spread the love, Yeah Baby!

Posted by: Jon at April 23, 2015 04:07 PM (kUvYe)

213
@197
Trial in absentia? Not sure that that's much better than just droning him, tbh, unless this trial includes an attorney for his side that will effectively represent him.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker at April 23, 2015 04:08 PM (k8xvx)

214 but surely there's an alternative to the executive having a kill list with little to no outside oversight whatsoever?

Posted by: lurkingestlurker at April 23, 2015 04:06 PM (k8xvx)


Worse, they are leaking that Obama did not sign off on these strikes....

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:08 PM (qh617)

215 http://boards.fool.com/captain-kickass-the-post-racial-superhero-28657602.aspx?sort=username

The link. Sorry. I'm a kickass kinda guy too!

Posted by: Jon at April 23, 2015 04:08 PM (kUvYe)

216 then he should have been tried for treason, in absentia... and given a death sentence, or his citizenship revoked...

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:05 PM (qh617)


For a guy who swings around the Constitution and the law all the time, I'm surprised you didn't know that everything you just typed is illegal.

Trials in absentia are illegal.

Sentencing in absentia is illegal.

Revoking citizenship in absentia is illegal.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:08 PM (fwARV)

217 (Barack is quite good at Latin, by the way.)

And here I thought fellatio was Italian. Thanks, Marcuth!

Posted by: t-bird at April 23, 2015 04:08 PM (FcR7P)

218 Do you really think a president approves every single shot fired?

Wasn't he out playing poker in the hallway during the Bin Laden operation?

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 23, 2015 04:08 PM (ZKzrr)

219 Affirmative Action has consequences.

Posted by: Garrett at April 23, 2015 04:09 PM (/6xrQ)

220 If we're not going to be at war (with, say, Yemen or Pakistan) then we can't be blowing people up over there.


Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:07 PM (AkOaV)

So you opposed the bin Laden raid?

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:09 PM (fwARV)

221 I'm all for legal. let's have a nice trial after we hang him

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 04:09 PM (rDqRv)

222 213
@197
Trial in absentia? Not sure that that's much better than just droning him, tbh, unless this trial includes an attorney for his side that will effectively represent him.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker at April 23, 2015 04:08 PM (k8xvx)


sure.... could be done.... have a lawyer for him... not a problem...

But the rule of Law is important in a Republic... and daily that rule of Law is being dismissed as unimportant...

Even by the very party NAMED Republicans...

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:09 PM (qh617)

223 It's a huge stretch to use the 911 authority to kill all islamic terrorists

But these guys actually were Al Qaeda. Gadhhan actually worked with Bin Laden. The authorization was for Al Qaeda and they killed Al Qaeda. The authorization is on point.

ISIS just formed an alliance with Al Qaeda. Good to go

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 04:09 PM (zOTsN)

224 Allow me...

Gadahn was is a goat fucker.
Posted by: Blank filler at April 23, 2015 03:54 PM


Oh, yes...yes he is....*sniggers evilly*

Posted by: 72 Demon Goats Who Laugh With Scorn at Dick Cheney's Warcock at April 23, 2015 04:09 PM (h4vJk)

225 My apologies RINOs:


Mitch McConnell can use procedural tricks and late night votes to accomplish something after all.


That fucking turtle just did it at 10 pm to make sure the NSA can continue its illegal spying against all of you serfs, even expanding the current illegal program.


Great fucking job losers, KEEP VOTING RINO!!!

Posted by: prescient11 at April 23, 2015 04:10 PM (q5APL)

226 Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:06 PM (fwARV)

Yeah, and I could live with that one off (they went to "serve a warrant" on him. We sent in an extraction team, it's not like we bombed him from the sky).

But for it to be routine, against un named, unknown people across the world?

Cmon.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:10 PM (AkOaV)

227 Someone from another thread got lost and found his way onto this one? Maybe he should use Waze?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 04:11 PM (rDqRv)

228 This ought to be a great moment for Rand Paul to make some hay, given his previous filibuster about this very topic.

Posted by: Hawkins1701 at April 23, 2015 04:11 PM (DBbiE)

229 If we're going to be at war, then we need declared wars naming countries.

If we're not going to be at war (with, say, Yemen or Pakistan) then we can't be blowing people up over there. Because there's a thin line (nowadays, apparently) between "war" and "assassinating people from the sky based on sketchy intel" and I'm not comfortable with our country doing that. Especially without any oversight, due process, or anything. it seems very... unamerican to me.


-----

Good points - but can we be at war with an ideology? Could Congress declare war on terrorists (and not countries)? I can certainly see that being used in a bad way. But I'm not sure it isn't constitutional.

Thoughts?

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:11 PM (gmeXX)

230
@216
Fair point. Had forgotten that.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker at April 23, 2015 04:11 PM (k8xvx)

231 sure.... could be done.... have a lawyer for him... not a problem...

But the rule of Law is important in a Republic... and daily that rule of Law is being dismissed as unimportant...

Even by the very party NAMED Republicans...


Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:09 PM (qh617)


No.

Crosby v. United States.

In absentia trials are unconstitutional. Period.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:11 PM (fwARV)

232 ISIS just formed an alliance with Al Qaeda. Good to go
Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 04:09 PM (zOTsN)

Unbelievable. No one voting for that authorization meant it as an enabling act for continuous generation long assassinations and wars across the Muslim world.

If we need to fight ISIS, then we need congressional approval.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:11 PM (AkOaV)

233 Just wanted to let you know, I coined "Captain Kickass" some time ago.

Well done. You will receive free AoS Prime for six months.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 23, 2015 04:11 PM (evdj2)

234 We are all waiting to see how Mr. Spew Spew comes down on bombing American citizens on foreign soil.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 23, 2015 04:12 PM (QyBQv)

235 But for it to be routine, against un named, unknown people across the world?

Cmon.


Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:10 PM (AkOaV)


Unnamed and unknown to you.

Are you suggesting that all of this information needs to be publicized?

What would that do to our sources and methods?

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:12 PM (fwARV)

236 You just fckn know that if a bunch of jihaidiots had their asses smoked and no hostages killed that the story would have been how he authorized etc. etc. I I I I I I Me Me Me. I hate TFG

Posted by: Minnfidel at April 23, 2015 04:12 PM (6GBAx)

237 I don't have a problem with AdamGoatfcuker getting vaporized. He personally made his bed. He got Hellfired in it, and that goes to the good column.

The US left an American citizen in the hands of the enemy. We aren't supposed to do that. Yes, we don't negotiate with terrorists (except when we do). But we have other ways of negotiation. The end of a select fire weapon is usually the best one. But we didn't even try with Weinstein, or now the Americans in Yemen. The fcuking RUSSIANS are helping evac our people, not us. o_0

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my hate cannot be found) at April 23, 2015 04:12 PM (O9qtX)

238 He delegated his authority to drone to the CIA in their ROE. Gives him plausible deniability. Gives them flexability and speed to act.

Do you really think a president approves every single shot fired?

Posted by: ThunderB


Considering the drone strike was in Pakistan, a county with which we are not at war, Yes, for the simple fact that they have to inform Pakistan of the kill.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 23, 2015 04:12 PM (KhFZp)

239 If we need to fight ISIS, then we need congressional approval.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:11 PM (AkOaV


Agreed.

This specific strike target al Qaeda.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:12 PM (fwARV)

240 Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:11 PM (gmeXX)

I don't know.

I'm just saying, there needs to be a more... constitutional process involved in this.

A blanket "we're at war with associated forces of associated forces who attacked us on 9/11" being used 15 years after the fact, which means we're not at war with any given country, but with "combatants" who the president alone gets to designate and give the thumbs up or thumbs down to...

...That's... I don't know what the word I'm trying to find here, but...

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:13 PM (AkOaV)

241 If we're going to be at war, then we need declared wars naming countries.

Essentially, Bush declared war on the entire planet, except for those nations which fight terrorism.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 23, 2015 04:13 PM (39g3+)

242 Every idiot who voted for this feckless fool should hang <s>.their head in shame.</s>
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at April 23, 2015 03:38 PM (lmdHn)

Simplify

Posted by: On Waldens' Pond, Somewhere at April 23, 2015 04:13 PM (BXVvA)

243 In memory of Gadahn the American (may he rest in pieces -- *jazzhands*), Beck's hilarious mocking of the lispy terrorist:

http://tinyurl.com/ol8w4lw

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 23, 2015 04:13 PM (FsuaD)

244 >>Crosby v. United States



Crosby Sucks!

Posted by: Rangers Fan at April 23, 2015 04:14 PM (/6xrQ)

245 We are all waiting to see how Mr. Spew Spew comes down on bombing American citizens on foreign soil.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 23, 2015 04:12 PM (QyBQv)


He's too busy counting the millions he (didn't) make on the NASDAQ record just set.

Posted by: steveegg at April 23, 2015 04:14 PM (cL79m)

246 The CIA is an executive agency. It is not an independent agency. Everyone who works at or for the CIA is an agent of the President.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:14 PM (gmeXX)

247

obama ispissed we killed an interesting italian

Posted by: kj at April 23, 2015 04:14 PM (lKyWE)

248 Apparently there is a very simple Root Cause Analyses method at the WH


Was the outcome favorable / desirable ?

If "yes" then Obama was personally responsible
If "No" then:

a. Just found out on the news
b. Rogue government employee
c. The Pres. is mad as hell
d. The Pres. has set up an investigation to ensure this doesnt happen again

Posted by: McCool at April 23, 2015 04:14 PM (nCSwS)

249 If you like your kill list, you can keep your kill list.

Posted by: Citizen Cake at April 23, 2015 04:14 PM (ppaKI)

250 234 We are all waiting to see how Mr. Spew Spew comes down on bombing American citizens on foreign soil.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 23, 2015 04:12 PM (QyBQv)


Look at John Doe in Wisconsin. He seems cool with bombing right here at home.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 23, 2015 04:15 PM (St6BJ)

251 LOAC applies in that it categorizes who is an unlawful combatant. Geneva convention doe not. Not for spies like the CIA. And not for unlawful combatants, people who fight for non state actors, with no uniform. Since they were CIA UCMJ does not apply. get that you are uncomfortable with this but you are incorrectly stating the law

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 04:15 PM (zOTsN)

252 Considering the drone strike was in Pakistan

Rumor was, years ago, that Pakistan had veto power over drone strikes in their country. Presumably, Pakistan intelligence developed the intel that was used to identify and locate the target.

Posted by: EphramKG36 at April 23, 2015 04:15 PM (gtXzt)

253 Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:12 PM (fwARV)

Well, if it can't be known publicly, then it shouldn't happen.

Sorry, I don't trust my government with the power to unilaterally declare someone a terrorist, then bomb him. In a country we're not at war with.

I just don't. I'm aware of their work.

And even if I thought they were getting 100% of the right guys 100% of the time, I'm not comfortable with violating sovereign airspace on a whim to kill people with drones.

This all needs to be debated, and our stupid congresscritters who supposedly represent us need to approve of this kind of assassinations across the globe. We just are kind of... doing it. No debate, nothing.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:15 PM (AkOaV)

254 Essentially, Bush declared war on the entire planet, except for those nations which fight terrorism.

-----

Maybe in speech - in reality he got Congress to grant him authority to go into specific countries (in essence he got a declaration of war).

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:15 PM (gmeXX)

255 If we're going to be at war, then we need declared wars naming countries.

If we're not going to be at war (with, say, Yemen or Pakistan) then we can't be blowing people up over there. Because there's a thin line (nowadays, apparently) between "war" and "assassinating people from the sky based on sketchy intel" and I'm not comfortable with our country doing that.


That, or not bitch when they do it to us.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 23, 2015 04:15 PM (1deOB)

256 Well done. You will receive free AoS Prime for six months.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 23, 2015 04:11 PM (evdj2)


Wil B redy inn sex munthz.

Posted by: AoS Prime alpha 0.0.1 at April 23, 2015 04:15 PM (cL79m)

257 Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:15 PM (gmeXX)

Nope!

The 9/11 AUMF does not name specific countries. (or it might name afghanistan, but it includes the weasely "and associated forces" shit in there).

The AUMF for Iraq did, however, name Iraq.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:16 PM (AkOaV)

258
He's too busy counting the millions he (didn't) make on the NASDAQ record just set.
Posted by: steveegg at April 23, 2015 04:14 PM (cL79m

Well, if thats the case, then I will remain undecided.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 23, 2015 04:16 PM (QyBQv)

259
Essentially, Bush declared war on the entire planet, except for those nations which fight terrorism.


except for nations that said they'll fight terrorism

Posted by: kj at April 23, 2015 04:16 PM (lKyWE)

260 The problem we face right now is that civilization is up against a religious force of hate spread across nations without any specific military or boundary. Its what the west decided was not going to happen any longer at the Treaty of Westfalia, and has held to ever since. We're fighting a force that ignores boundaries, nations, flags, armies, and restraints.

So the old systems based on that treaty and the idea of fighting armies in nations do not work and have no validity.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 23, 2015 04:16 PM (39g3+)

261 They do not have to inform Pakistan. Certainly not beforehand.

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 04:16 PM (zOTsN)

262 A blanket "we're at war with associated forces of associated forces who attacked us on 9/11" being used 15 years after the fact, which means we're not at war with any given country, but with "combatants" who the president alone gets to designate and give the thumbs up or thumbs down to...

...That's... I don't know what the word I'm trying to find here, but...



Arbitrary and capricious ?

Imperial ?

Posted by: McCool at April 23, 2015 04:16 PM (nCSwS)

263 That, or not bitch when they do it to us.
Posted by: rickb223 at April 23, 2015 04:15 PM (1deOB)

Exactly. What's our moral justification to get pissed if Mexico starts droning "suspected cartel members" in "cartel hangouts" in Arizona?

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:17 PM (AkOaV)

264 Well, if it can't be known publicly, then it shouldn't happen.

Sorry, I don't trust my government with the power to unilaterally declare someone a terrorist, then bomb him. In a country we're not at war with.

I just don't. I'm aware of their work.

And even if I thought they were getting 100% of the right guys 100% of the time, I'm not comfortable with violating sovereign airspace on a whim to kill people with drones.

This all needs to be debated, and our stupid congresscritters who supposedly represent us need to approve of this kind of assassinations across the globe. We just are kind of... doing it. No debate, nothing.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:15 PM (AkOaV)

This is the third time I'm asking, but it's even more relevant.

Did you oppose the bin Laden raid?

We unilaterally declared him a terrorist and didn't release the information about the raid until he was already dead.

That's PRECISELY the situation you state that you oppose.

Also, if you believe there should be no secrets then I suggest you team up with Snowden.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:17 PM (fwARV)

265 212 Just wanted to let you know, I coined "Captain Kickass" some time ago. I was the first one to appreciate the Captain's Awwwwwssooomenesssss........

I'm glad you've finally seen the light and so, please spread the word on Captain Kickass' awesomeness. Spread the word, spread the love, Yeah Baby!
Posted by: Jon at April 23, 2015 04:07 PM (kUvYe)

Er, Sean Hannity's been using it ever since King Barry's idiotic interview about the Gulf oil spill.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 23, 2015 04:17 PM (2Ojst)

266 Where does a career soldier get $100,000?


Posted by: MTF at April 23, 2015 03:46 PM (FCsIb)

According to the Internet, base pay for an army general is $137k per year, plus a $200k housing and food allowance. That is base. I think coming up with $100k is not beyond reason.

Posted by: Sambo at April 23, 2015 04:17 PM (0u9/S)

267 BB WOLF @ 222: "But the rule of Law is important in a Republic..."

Plus infinity.

The rule of law is more good than slavery is bad. A society governed by laws will eventually abolish slavery.

The inverse - a society without slavery but where anything else pretty much goes - is a basket case full of misery. It's Haiti.

Posted by: Marcus Aurelius at April 23, 2015 04:17 PM (8dNrT)

268 Well, if it can't be known publicly, then it shouldn't happen.

Sorry, I don't trust my government with the power to unilaterally declare someone a terrorist, then bomb him. In a country we're not at war with.

I just don't. I'm aware of their work.

And even if I thought they were getting 100% of the right guys 100% of the time, I'm not comfortable with violating sovereign airspace on a whim to kill people with drones.

This all needs to be debated, and our stupid congresscritters who supposedly represent us need to approve of this kind of assassinations across the globe. We just are kind of... doing it. No debate, nothing.


-----

Bingo. I'm uncomfortable with drone warfare for a lot of reasons. Maybe the good outweighs the bad. But it is a debate for the country as a whole.

I may be ok with a declaration of war against radical islam - but I may not. I'd like to have the debate so I can properly choose.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:17 PM (gmeXX)

269 Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:08 PM (fwARV)

I stand corrected...

However... the extra judicial NON MILITARY killing, of an American Citizen???

REALLY?

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:17 PM (qh617)

270 The authorization did specifically say to kill Al Qaeda

These guys were actually Al Qaeda. There is no doubt about that

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 04:17 PM (zOTsN)

271 So the old systems based on that treaty and the idea of fighting armies in nations do not work and have no validity.

Hostis humani generis. We're at war with the Pirate Kings.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 23, 2015 04:18 PM (evdj2)

272 Exactly. What's our moral justification to get pissed if Mexico starts droning "suspected cartel members" in "cartel hangouts" in Arizona?
-------------

Because they are Democrat voters?

Posted by: Roy at April 23, 2015 04:18 PM (VndSC)

273 Good points - but can we be at war with an ideology? Could Congress declare war on



the Tea Party?

Posted by: rickb223 at April 23, 2015 04:18 PM (1deOB)

274 in reality he got Congress to grant him authority to go into specific countries

I don't think the authorization named countries in specific, did it?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 23, 2015 04:18 PM (39g3+)

275 Nope!

The 9/11 AUMF does not name specific countries. (or it might name afghanistan, but it includes the weasely "and associated forces" shit in there).

The AUMF for Iraq did, however, name Iraq.


----

Afghanistan and Iraq were named - what other countries were we in.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:18 PM (gmeXX)

276
Crosby Sucks!
Posted by: Rangers Fan at April 23, 2015 04:14 PM (/6xrQ)

No shit!!

Posted by: Neil Young at April 23, 2015 04:18 PM (QyBQv)

277 However... the extra judicial NON MILITARY killing, of an American Citizen???

REALLY?

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:17 PM (qh617)

The AUMF names al Qaeda. These guys were al Qaeda. The CIA is an executive agency.

I have zero problem with a self-professed terrorist getting smoked. It's not like WE said he was al Qaeda and he said 'no I'm not!!'

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:19 PM (fwARV)

278 Crosby Sucks!
Posted by: Rangers Fan at April 23, 2015 04:14 PM (/6xrQ)

No shit!!
Posted by: Neil Young
----------------------
We beg to differ.

Posted by: Maury - Who's the Daddy? at April 23, 2015 04:19 PM (VndSC)

279 Scratch that. Another place says base pay is $185k and doesn't say anything about housing and food allowance. Stil, not unreasonable.

Posted by: Sambo at April 23, 2015 04:19 PM (0u9/S)

280 It's Haiti.Posted by: Marcus Aurelius at April 23, 2015 04:17 PM (8dNrT)Dude!Come on

Posted by: Haiti at April 23, 2015 04:20 PM (W6iIX)

281 Good points - but can we be at war with an ideology? Could Congress declare war on

the Tea Party?

Posted by: rickb223 at April 23, 2015 04:18 PM (1deOB)


Fortunately, we don't have to find out because our good friend Barry declared war on our common enemy.

Posted by: Jean Bo(eh)ner and MaxiCave McConnell at April 23, 2015 04:20 PM (cL79m)

282 Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:17 PM (fwARV)

Apples to oranges... with a little straw thrown in...

Bin Laden raid... express Presidential sign off, Military strike.

This... CIA drone... with no express Presidential sign off...

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:20 PM (qh617)

283 Exactly. What's our moral justification to get pissed if Mexico starts droning "suspected cartel members" in "cartel hangouts" in Arizona?

Indeed, or China against Japanese targets etc. We've got no legal or moral ground to oppose other people doing what the US does. All we have is superior technology and reach so nobody else is really doing it right now.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 23, 2015 04:21 PM (39g3+)

284 All we have is superior technology and reach so nobody else is really doing it right now.

-------

*snicker*

Posted by: NSA at April 23, 2015 04:21 PM (VndSC)

285
>>>Good points - but can we be at war with an ideology?

Some how we ended up in a war against a tactic,

Posted by: Haiti at April 23, 2015 04:22 PM (W6iIX)

286 The authorization did specifically say to kill Al Qaeda These guys were actually Al Qaeda. There is no doubt about that
Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 04:17 PM (zOTsN)


They made no secret of it. They trumpeted it any chance they got. I hope the report they are dead is true, but we have heard AdamGoatfcuker is dead before. Guess he wasn't.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my hate cannot be found) at April 23, 2015 04:22 PM (O9qtX)

287 Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:17 PM (fwARV)

I answered you upthread, but I'll answer again and in more detail.

I know I was pissed when Obama said during a debate with McCain that if bin Laden was in Pakistan, he'd go in and get him out. Because Pakistan was/is our "ally" and is a sovereign nation with whom we are not at war.

That being said, I would have probably made the same decision as Obama if I were president. But I would know it was a very slippery slope, and not something we really should be doing.

The bin Laden thing was also a little different -- he was our #1 wanted terrorist and had been for years who was (clearly) being protected by elements of the Pakistani government. We also had a federal warrant for his arrest (from the Clinton era). We also didn't bomb from the sky, we sent an extraction team in.

No, I'm not comfortable about it, but I would not condemn Obama for that if it was a one off.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:22 PM (AkOaV)

288 Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 23, 2015 04:19 PM (fwARV)

so you are OK with Assassination as a means of projecting National Policy...

good to know...

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:22 PM (qh617)

289 This... CIA drone... with no express Presidential sign off...

-----

Perhaps not - if not are people going to be fired. Because if an agent of mine did something this bad, they would be fired. If no firings, then the principal approved.

The CIA is not an independent agency. They are all agents of the President - they are agents of Obama.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:22 PM (gmeXX)

290 Bin Laden Raid... Kill OR capture

CIA drone... death from 30,000 ft

Posted by: wrg500 at April 23, 2015 04:23 PM (S+el1)

291 Could Congress declare war on the Tea Party?
Posted by: rickb223 at April 23, 2015 04:18 PM (1deOB)


--------------------------------------------


They've been at war with the TP since it's inception. They just haven't used bullets and explosives............yet.

Posted by: Soona at April 23, 2015 04:23 PM (/HX7u)

292 Its not the results I have problems with - kill all the IS and assorted murderous Muslim radicals. Its the methodology and lack of any legal or moral structure. The president is basically able to play video games killing real people using a cheat code all day long, without restraint.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 23, 2015 04:24 PM (39g3+)

293 "The CIA is not an independent agency. They are all agents of the President - they are agents of Obama. "

...and Obama just hung them up to dry, twisting slowly in the wind.

Posted by: EphramKG36 at April 23, 2015 04:24 PM (gtXzt)

294 a. Just found out on the news
b. Rogue government employee
c. The Pres. is mad as hell
d. The Pres. has set up an investigation to ensure this doesnt happen again
Posted by: McCool

----------------------
You forgot - e. Tsunami

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 23, 2015 04:24 PM (F2IAQ)

295 Wow. President must personally approve every shot and we can't go after terrorist unless we are at war with the country they are squatting in


That is nuts

Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 04:24 PM (zOTsN)

296 Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:18 PM (gmeXX)

Mali, Nigeria, Yemen, Pakistan, Syria, (breath) Libya, Somalia, Tunisia, and probably a few dozen more that I can't think of off the top of my head.

At least, these are countries in which we have used drones to kill people in the last 10 or so years (mostly in the last 5 or so)

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:25 PM (AkOaV)

297 He started out as Jesus.

He became Pontius Pilate.

Posted by: AmishDude at April 23, 2015 04:25 PM (L2xDv)

298 Drone warfare is something that should be debated in this country.

I'm sure VDH would have interesting points to say about the topic.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:25 PM (gmeXX)

299 You forgot - e. Tsunami
--------------

f. SQUIRREL

Posted by: Roy at April 23, 2015 04:25 PM (VndSC)

300 ...and Obama just hung them up to dry, twisting slowly in the wind.

Posted by: EphramKG36 at April 23, 2015 04:24 PM (gtXzt)

Rogue agents in Indianapolis!

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 04:25 PM (ftVQq)

301 and the middle class

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 23, 2015 04:25 PM (evdj2)

302 That is nuts
Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 04:24 PM (zOTsN)

WHY is that nuts?

Either ask their governments to hand them over, and if they refuse, go to congress and ask for a fucking declaration of war. How about that? That's how it worked for 200 + years, without a problem.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:26 PM (AkOaV)

303 they are agents of Obama

I like Agents of SHIELD better.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 23, 2015 04:26 PM (39g3+)

304 test

Posted by: MH at April 23, 2015 04:26 PM (F2IAQ)

305 At least, these are countries in which we have used drones to kill people in the last 10 or so years (mostly in the last 5 or so)


-----

So not Bush. My point was that Bush was much more constitutional on the issue than Obama. For all the leftist rants that Bush got us into undeclared wars - he got authority from Congress.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:26 PM (gmeXX)

306 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 23, 2015 04:24 PM (39g3+)

Right. THIS is my point.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:26 PM (AkOaV)

307 When the Iranians and their minions start droning those who blaspheme their precious pedo-prophet, it will get way more interesting.

Posted by: Garrett at April 23, 2015 04:26 PM (/6xrQ)

308 War is hell and it is suppose to be.

All you Jag Officers here would have had almost every Marine in the Pacific in the brig in WW2.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 04:27 PM (rDqRv)

309 J.J., hope you saw the article at AT I mentioned in the open thread earlier today.
By a rabbi and about Israel's birthday, so to speak, and more. Worth reading.

Posted by: teej at April 23, 2015 04:27 PM (mJRr3)

310 Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:26 PM (gmeXX)

Oh, no the majority of the drone bullshit happened during Obamas reign, because he did not want to have prisoners since he had nowhere to put him. So he just killed them instead.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:27 PM (AkOaV)

311 Either ask their governments to hand them over, and if they refuse, go to congress and ask for a fucking declaration of war. How about that? That's how it worked for 200 + years, without a problem.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:26 P

I suppose that would keep him away from domestic issues.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 23, 2015 04:27 PM (F2IAQ)

312
Thing is - no one would really BLAME him if he made this mistake. If he said, yeah, I called, it, and unfortunately the hostages were there, everyone would just shrug. Bad shit happens to nice people when you fight a war.

But President Perfect's ego is so tremendously fragile, he can't go there.


And really, I doubt he approves any kill lists, ever. I think they give him some crayons, paper, and a copy of Marcus Aurelias and tell him to go to it champ. When someone dies he didn't approve, he can say "I put Mitch McConnell, Tigger, and hard boiled eggson that list, WTF?"

Posted by: Dr. McCoy at April 23, 2015 04:28 PM (/EkKm)

313 All you Jag Officers here would have had almost every Marine in the Pacific in the brig in WW2.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 04:27 PM (rDqRv)


Not me. I would have had the Jagoffs in the brig.

Posted by: AmishDude at April 23, 2015 04:28 PM (L2xDv)

314 Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 04:27 PM (rDqRv)

WAR has a meaning. What we're doing now is not "war" its targeted assassinations across the world.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:28 PM (AkOaV)

315 When the Iranians and their minions start droning those who blaspheme their precious pedo-prophet, it will get way more interesting.


And we won't be able to say shit.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 23, 2015 04:28 PM (1deOB)

316 That is nuts
Posted by: ThunderB, Quite Capable of Violence at April 23, 2015 04:24 PM (zOTsN)

WHY is that nuts?

Either ask their governments to hand them over, and if they refuse, go to congress and ask for a fucking declaration of war. How about that? That's how it worked for 200 + years, without a problem.


-----

I don't think nuts, nor do I think we ought to limit ourselves. But it is worthy of debate. And it may be that there should be some oversight put in place. There are moral considerations and there are Constitutional considerations.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:28 PM (gmeXX)

317
I coined "Captain Kickass" some time ago.
Posted by: Jon



Internet note: The guy who came up with the "trollface" meme has made very nice bank off of it because he went and got a copyright.

http://tinyurl.com/mwqr5ty

So, there you go. Fame and fortune await.

"Captain Kickass" (c) LDC Inc.

Whoops -- too late.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at April 23, 2015 04:29 PM (kdS6q)

318 WAR has a meaning. What we're doing now is not "war" its targeted assassinations across the world.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:28 PM (AkOaV)


The other side is at War? Sometimes you don't have a choice, the other side makes that decision for you. About time we owned up to that and finished this War off before it's to late

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 04:30 PM (rDqRv)

319 Totally off topic, but I seem to remember and just confirmed that the Norks conducted an underground nuclear test in Feb of 2013. The Norks and Iran are all buddy buddy on Iran's bomb program. It occurred to me late last night that how do we know that the Norks were testing one of their own bombs? The Iranians may already have the bomb and just tested it there instead of Iran. If so, then this whole negotiation thing is just Kabuki theater.

Posted by: Old Blue at April 23, 2015 04:30 PM (9iR5/)

320 The other question that needs to be asked is why an intelligence agency has armed drones and kill authority. If we are fighting a war, we have the military to do it. If they develop intel that one of our targets has appeared, it should be a uniformed member of the military doing the shooting.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my hate cannot be found) at April 23, 2015 04:30 PM (O9qtX)

321 War is hell and it is suppose to be.



All you Jag Officers here would have had almost every Marine in the Pacific in the brig in WW2.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 04:27 PM (rDqRv)

The US west of the Mississippi would be speaking Japanese and the US east of the Mississippi would be speaking German with today's JAG and RoE back in the day!

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 04:30 PM (ftVQq)

322 "Did you oppose the bin Laden raid?"

No. Kudos to all involved including President Obama on that one. Everyone in the world knew the United States was at war against him, specifically, personally. Bush said as much publicly, leading him to a 90% approval rating and Congressional approval to kill him dead. That's as close to a formal declaration of war and "consent of the governed" as there is nowadays. To his credit, Obama saw his predecessor's policy through.

That said, there's a huge difference between Al Qaeda (along with those who harbor them and who support them financially) and whomever got drone-killed in Pakistan recently. I'll reserve my judgment on the action against the latter until I learn more about it.

Posted by: FireHorse at April 23, 2015 04:30 PM (8dNrT)

323 WAR has a meaning. What we're doing now is not "war" its targeted assassinations across the world.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:28 PM (AkOaV

When your enemy's definition of war is assassination throughout the world, well then you have to adjust your tactics.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 23, 2015 04:30 PM (F2IAQ)

324 I don't think nuts, nor do I think we ought to limit ourselves. But it is worthy of debate.

And it may be that there should be some oversight put in place. There are moral considerations and there are Constitutional considerations.


And whacking innocents, even by mistake, are high up there.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 23, 2015 04:31 PM (1deOB)

325 That's how it worked for 200 + years, without a problem.

Because the nation might have no control or ability to control the monsters in their midst. Declaring war on a victim of the evil in their borders isn't exactly the way its been done for 200+ years. Like I said, the old systems do not work against these guys. They break the program.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 23, 2015 04:31 PM (39g3+)

326 Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:22 PM (AkOaV)


Again, no snark: how many American lives would you have spent to get bin Laden? Bombing is safer.

The only reason a team went in was to confirm the body.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at April 23, 2015 04:31 PM (6GPwy)

327 Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:28 PM (gmeXX)

and practical considerations.

Do we really want one man having that kind of power with no oversight?

How long until other rebel groups around the world are classified as "terrorists"?

Would the Dems who love drone warfare when Obamas at the helm have been okay with Reagan declaring the Contras terrorists and just blowing them up from the sky and saying, "what? I don't need no stinkin war authorization. These guys are illegal, foreign, non combatants! jeez"

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:31 PM (AkOaV)

328 308 War is hell and it is suppose to be.

All you Jag Officers here would have had almost every Marine in the Pacific in the brig in WW2.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 04:27 PM (rDqRv)


The US Military wages war.... its covered by Geneva and the UCMJ...

This was done by the CIA... this was done by NON UNIFORMED COMBATANTS...

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:31 PM (qh617)

329 Oh, no the majority of the drone bullshit happened during Obamas reign, because he did not want to have prisoners since he had nowhere to put him. So he just killed them instead.

WAR has a meaning. What we're doing now is not "war" its targeted assassinations across the world.


-----

We are in agreement. For all his faults - and there were many - I will defend Bush on this. He went to Congress to get authority. He made hard decisions. He took responsibility.

What Obama has done is the exact opposite. In fact, he has done all the bad things that the left accused Bush of.

He went into countries without authority. He likes drone usage because he doesn't have to deal with enemy captures.

He takes full and personal responsiblity for the good things (killing OBL). But disclaims any bad things.

Its maddening. It is worthy of debate and it should receive more coverage.

I hope Rand Paul makes it an issue again. Because it is an issue worth discussing.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:32 PM (gmeXX)

330 Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at April 23, 2015 04:31 PM (6GPwy)

Preferably, I would have avoided that whole fucking situation. Find a way to threaten the Pakistanis to turn him over. Go to the American people and say, "hey our buddies in Pakistan are hiding bin Laden. If they don't turn him over in 24 hours, I'm going to ask congress to authorize me to use military force against Pakistan."

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:32 PM (AkOaV)

331 Totally off topic, but I seem to remember and just confirmed that the Norks conducted an underground nuclear test in Feb of 2013. The Norks and Iran are all buddy buddy on Iran's bomb program. It occurred to me late last night that how do we know that the Norks were testing one of their own bombs? The Iranians may already have the bomb and just tested it there instead of Iran. If so, then this whole negotiation thing is just Kabuki theater.
Posted by: Old Blue at April 23, 2015 04:30 PM (9iR5/)


------------------------------------------


I've said it numerous times in the last few weeks that I think Iran already has a bomb, or two, or three........

Posted by: Soona at April 23, 2015 04:33 PM (/HX7u)

332 Wait.

The Mets are the best team in baseball?

13 and 3?

How is that not one of the signs of the Apocalypse?

Posted by: Garrett at April 23, 2015 04:34 PM (/6xrQ)

333 I hope Rand Paul makes it an issue again. Because it is an issue worth discussing.
Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:32 PM (gmeXX)

I agree.

I'm not saying we should uninvent drones.

I'm just saying that if in, say, the 1960s, our president was sending bombers across the globe to kill communist terrorists with dumb bombs with no declared war, people would have been pissed.

Yes our technology is better now, but still...

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:34 PM (AkOaV)

334
Huh. Learn something new every day. Alan Rickman is straight. He's been living with one woman for about 40 years and they finally got hitched.

Why did I think he was gay?

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 23, 2015 04:34 PM (iQIUe)

335 This was done by the CIA... this was done by NON UNIFORMED COMBATANTS...

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:31 PM (qh617

Who were authorized to do so by our elected representatives.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at April 23, 2015 04:34 PM (6GPwy)

336 NON UNIFORMED COMBATANTS...
Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:31 PM (qh617)

Right. Our combatants were illegally out of uniform as much as the so-called combatants in the ME / North Africa are.

In other words, this is not a war, this is (like I've said 100000 times) targeted assassinations against people the president (and he alone) decides are "bad people" based on who the fuck knows what kind of intelligence furnished by our staunch, reliable allies like the Pakistanis, yemenis, Saudis, et al.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:36 PM (AkOaV)

337 This was done by the CIA... this was done by NON UNIFORMED COMBATANTS...

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:31 PM (qh617)

I need to go back and read the LOAC, but the CIA has a recognized command structure (although different than a formal military rank structure), and guess who's at the top on the chain of command!

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 04:36 PM (ftVQq)

338 Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:32 PM (AkOaV)

Pakistan is a member of the nuke-armed club. Going to war with them would be problematic. We'd win, but it'd be ugly.

Pakistan gave permission for us to hit targets. Its not where the target was, its who hit the target.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my hate cannot be found) at April 23, 2015 04:36 PM (O9qtX)

339 Who were authorized to do so by our elected representatives.


----

Our elected representatives cannot authorize the CIA to do anything.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:36 PM (gmeXX)

340 All you Jag officers can keep jerking off and discuss the intricacies of the Geneva COnventions and the UCMJ. In the meantime we are getting our asses kicked and spinning our wheels.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 04:36 PM (rDqRv)

341 Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:32 PM (AkOaV)

To which Pakistan responds: "prove it."

How much of our sources and methods are you willing to give up?

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at April 23, 2015 04:36 PM (6GPwy)

342 I've said it numerous times in the last few weeks that I think Iran already has a bomb, or two, or three........>>>

Well what the heck are they waiting for? It's cold, cramped and wet down here.

Posted by: The 12th Imam at April 23, 2015 04:37 PM (aVYsC)

343
How is that not one of the signs of the Apocalypse?


because its still april

Posted by: kj at April 23, 2015 04:37 PM (lKyWE)

344 Who were authorized to do so by our elected representatives.
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at April 23, 2015 04:34 PM (6GPwy)

When?

I don't recall that vote happening. And the Constitution doesn't have an asterisks about "non uniformed combatants who the president thinks are really bad guys" when talking about war.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:37 PM (AkOaV)

345 332 Wait.

The Mets are the best team in baseball?

13 and 3?

How is that not one of the signs of the Apocalypse?
Posted by: Garrett at April 23, 2015 04:34 PM (/6xrQ)

Who said it wasn't?

Posted by: Hawkins1701 at April 23, 2015 04:37 PM (DBbiE)

346
Who were authorized to do so by our elected representatives.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at April 23, 2015 04:34 PM (6GPwy)


Against treaties we have signed... which have the force of US law....

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:38 PM (qh617)

347 Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:32 PM (AkOaV)

A threat to cut off every cent of US corruption money flowing into Pakistan would have Osama delivered anywhere in the world by Amazon within a day!

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 04:38 PM (ftVQq)

348
@330
And then when the Paki's fcuked up and couldn't deliver in 24? You look like an idiot on the national and world stage if you don't use military force, and a bully for doing if the fcuk up is just incompetence rather than malice.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker at April 23, 2015 04:38 PM (k8xvx)

349 How much of our sources and methods are you willing to give up?
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at April 23, 2015 04:36 PM (6GPwy)

For bin Laden? As much as it took.

...And it wouldn't take much to prove it. Sat photos are all Obama had to go on until some doc on the ground confirmed it.

And Pakistan would most likely not bluff us like that, and if they said "prove it" we could say "okay, we should have authorization for war in about 24 hours, we'll prove it when we turn your country in to rubble and secure all of your fucking nukes, you nutjobs"

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:39 PM (AkOaV)

350 Hey. The answer is to declare war on Pakistan or do nothing. Got it


Are Bb wolf and my new handle jags

Posted by: Thunder B, Shapeshifter at April 23, 2015 04:39 PM (qGuSZ)

351 WE LOVE YOU DAMIEN!
SORRY.

BARACK.

WE LOVE YOU BARACK!
THIS IS ALL FOR YOU!

[jumping off balcony]


Posted by: the slobbering MSM at April 23, 2015 04:40 PM (1uKzc)

352 350 Hey. The answer is to declare war on Pakistan or do nothing. Got it


Are Bb wolf and my new handle jags
Posted by: Thunder B, Shapeshifter at April 23, 2015 04:39 PM (qGuSZ)

The legal answer, yeah. That about sums it up.

And no, I for one am not a JAG.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:40 PM (AkOaV)

353 This nation and it's feckless politicians just need to man up and do what really needs to be done. Make a formal declaration of war against islam.

This is really why we're constantly having these arguments. We can't officially name who the enemy is.

Posted by: Soona at April 23, 2015 04:41 PM (/HX7u)

354 Why did I think he was gay?

-
He does have a sort of light in the loafers upper class Brit twit feel.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 23, 2015 04:41 PM (XUKZU)

355 340 All you Jag officers can keep jerking off and discuss the intricacies of the Geneva COnventions and the UCMJ. In the meantime we are getting our asses kicked and spinning our wheels.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 04:36 PM (rDqRv)

***************
That is what lawyers do. Sorry.

We rely on dentists to determine tactics and rules of engagement.

Posted by: JAG at April 23, 2015 04:41 PM (vgIRn)

356
I need to go back and read the LOAC, but the CIA has a recognized command structure (although different than a formal military rank structure), and guess who's at the top on the chain of command!


Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 04:36 PM (ftVQq)


Non Uniformed.... very simple...

They can be shot on site...

Its why the Soviets always gave their KGB Officers actual military rank.... not... analyst... or agent.... it put them into an actual military structure.

Same with the Brits... who thought we were crazy NOT to do so....

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:41 PM (qh617)

357 We are getting our asses kicked because we went nation building. What we should have done is made both countries rubble and gone home. If the rubble stirred in a matter distressing to our sensibilities, we would bounce the rubble as often as necessary to get the point across. And if Iran got froggy, make that rubble, too.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my hate cannot be found) at April 23, 2015 04:42 PM (O9qtX)

358 Wait.

The Mets are the best team in baseball?

13 and 3?

How is that not one of the signs of the Apocalypse?

Posted by: Garrett at April 23, 2015 04:34 PM (/6xrQ)


Because the Apocalypse demands the Cubs be within a pitch of winning the World Series.

Posted by: steveegg at April 23, 2015 04:42 PM (cL79m)

359 We rely on dentists to determine tactics and rules of engagement.
Posted by: JAG at April 23, 2015 04:41 PM (vgIRn)

You could do worse and usually do.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 04:42 PM (rDqRv)

360 I think that both the Hague and the Geneva Conventions define a uniform as a distinctive emblem recognizable at a distance When the CIA guys put on their CIA badge, they're in uniform as far as the GC is concerned, I think.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 23, 2015 04:43 PM (evdj2)

361 @353

We will NEVER declare war on Islam.

Islam is a religion of peace.

Terrorism has nothing to do with religion, it's caused by poverty.

Did you not get the memo after 9/11?

Posted by: the United States of Appeasement at April 23, 2015 04:43 PM (1uKzc)

362
Are Bb wolf and my new handle jags
Posted by: Thunder B, Shapeshifter at April 23, 2015 04:39 PM (qGuSZ)

The legal answer, yeah. That about sums it up.

And no, I for one am not a JAG.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:40 PM (AkOaV)


Not a JAG... just had to abide by these rules... and so learned them on the Deckplates of a US Naval Ship...

So ... does someone now have to be a JAG to give an opinion???

Then I guess all civilians should stop talking about Military subjects totally.

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:44 PM (qh617)

363 We are getting our asses kicked because we went nation building. What we should have done is made both countries rubble and gone home. If the rubble stirred in a matter distressing to our sensibilities, we would bounce the rubble as often as necessary to get the point across. And if Iran got froggy, make that rubble, too.



Now THAT is war.
How many people have the stomach for that?

Posted by: rickb223 at April 23, 2015 04:44 PM (1deOB)

364 We will NEVER declare war on Islam.

Islam is a religion of peace.

Terrorism has nothing to do with religion, it's caused by poverty.

Did you not get the memo after 9/11?

Posted by: the United States of Appeasement at April 23, 2015 04:43 PM (1uKzc)

Yes I did. I wiped my ass with it. It was kind of abrasive to be honest

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 23, 2015 04:44 PM (rDqRv)

365 Posted by: toby928(C) at April 23, 2015 04:43 PM (evdj2)

I'm less interested in the uniformed part, and am more interested in a president who gets to bomb any one in any country at any time for any reason and more than half of the country sees nothing wrong with that.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:44 PM (AkOaV)

366 Cripes Jeb is such a clueless asshole. If he is the GOP candidate I swear I will stay home. Might as well run Pelosi.

Posted by: maddogg at April 23, 2015 04:44 PM (xWW96)

367 SH @ 229: "... but can we be at war with an ideology?"

No, but ...

NO, you can't wage ware against an ideology, BUT you can define that ideology in specific ways that makes it possible to then define and identify an enemy against who you can wage war.

Bush did that. He took "Global War on Terror" and said it encompasses any person or group who engages in or supports, by way of safe harbor or financing, terrorism across international borders.

It's broad but finite. It excludes militants in a country's civil war. It also excludes international conflicts where the combatants generally follow recognized rules of war.

(Not for nothing, it included Saddam Hussein. His ex post facto stipends for suicide bombings in Israel put a legitimate target on his entire government.)

Posted by: FireHorse at April 23, 2015 04:45 PM (8dNrT)

368 I'm less interested in the uniformed part, and am more interested in a president who gets to bomb any one in any country at any time for any reason and more than half of the country sees nothing wrong with that.

Well .. good for you, I guess.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 23, 2015 04:45 PM (evdj2)

369 So ... does someone now have to be a JAG to give an opinion???


Why does JAG matter if the CIA isn't military?

Posted by: rickb223 at April 23, 2015 04:45 PM (1deOB)

370 Cripes Jeb is such a clueless asshole. If he is the GOP candidate I swear I will stay home. Might as well run Pelosi.

Posted by: maddogg at April 23, 2015 04:44 PM (xWW96)


Glad I could help kick you out of the party of Ford, Rockefeller and my family.

Posted by: The Jebinator at April 23, 2015 04:46 PM (cL79m)

371 Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:44 PM (qh617)

ThunderB has previously claimed to be a JAG. No idea if that's true or not, and I don't think it adds anything to the conversation one way or another.

It's like lawyers who try to voxplain the constitution. "See, you're missing the penumbras and emanations over there. Only a keen, trained legal eye can spot them. Almost invisible, but..."
"Yeah, but I'm educated. I can read and write in English. That's not what the Constitution says!"
"Ah, you rube. Unfortunately you'll just never be as smart or capable as I am, since you have yet to pass the bar exam."

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 23, 2015 04:46 PM (AkOaV)

372 Nood

Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 23, 2015 04:46 PM (aVYsC)

373 This all needs to be debated,

it was, note prevent any future.

a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

You, Rand and BB Wolf can line up wrong all you want but hirabists getting Reapered is what we pay 1600 Penn to do.

Posted by: DaveA at April 23, 2015 04:46 PM (DL2i+)

374 I'm just thinking there are plenty of other things to argue about that if the CIA employees are out of uniform.

Do CIA guys have to take an oath of allegiance?

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 23, 2015 04:46 PM (evdj2)

375
I agree, in part, with whatNearsider and ThunderB havebeen saying, though I don't agree fully with their positions (Love the internet). We are fighting an non-state enemy whoengages in operations acrossmost ofthe middle-east,using non-conventional tactics against primarily non-military targets. How do you fight that, let alone beat it, with conventional operations?
You don't like drone at a whim? Fine, I don't like it either. What's the best alternative that gets the job done effectively and doesn't compromise our security and sources? Congressional oversight might work if Congress wasn't rolling over half the damn time, but at least it's a start.
And why, in the name of all that is good, are we damning the United States for doing the exact same thing that Israel does? You don't think innocents get killed in Israeli operations? (they do minimize them, and probably do better than we do at that). You think they publicize who they whack before they whack them? That they don't launch strikes at nations they aren't "at war with" to disrupt operations (i.e. Syria)? That they don't assassinate military and non-military targets to protect their interests (Iranian nuclear scientists, anyone? Iraqi or Iraqi-aligned nuclear scientists, anyone?)

Posted by: lurkingestlurker at April 23, 2015 04:46 PM (k8xvx)

376 How many people have the stomach for that?

Posted by: rickb223 at April 23, 2015 04:44 PM (1deOB)

Not many. The left would screaming about trigger words and safe zones.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 23, 2015 04:47 PM (S+el1)

377 Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:44 PM (qh617)

OH... and to take it a step further...

Does that mean that if you are NOT a JAG... and thus not really able to discern illegal orders...

You will not be held accountable???

Lt. Calley would tend to disagree...

Posted by: BB WOLF, at April 23, 2015 04:47 PM (qh617)

378

what was so important about getting adam gadan he was basically the maria harf of al qaeda

Posted by: kj at April 23, 2015 04:47 PM (lKyWE)

379 FYI:

In either case, the lawful combatant must be commanded by a person
responsible for subordinates; have fixed distinctive emblems
recognizable at a distance, such as uniforms; carry arms openly
; and
conduct his or her combat operations according to the LOAC.

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 04:47 PM (ftVQq)

380 "Then I guess all civilians should stop talking about Military subjects totally."

All kidding aside, that would be very bad.

Posted by: FireHorse at April 23, 2015 04:47 PM (8dNrT)

381 Is there really any more reason to believe that the hostages were killed by a drone strike, than to believe Kayla Mueller was killed a Jordanian or American air strike on ISIS in Syria?And how do we know that the the hostages are in fact dead?
Is anyone really sure Obama got this right later??Because I would think this would be something the terrorist groups would want the U.S. to believe.And how long after the drone strike did they determine it, and based on what evidence?
And how long after that did they wait to tell the family of Dr. Warren Weinstein?

Posted by: Sammy Finkelman at April 23, 2015 04:48 PM (DQy2O)

382 This is some SmartMilitary bloggin right here, yo

Posted by: yo at April 23, 2015 04:48 PM (W6iIX)

383 Could Congress declare war on
the Tea Party?


Silly you, that's what they've got us for!

Posted by: The IRS at April 23, 2015 04:48 PM (DLu2s)

384 Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my hate cannot be found) at April 23, 2015 04:42 PM (O9qtX)

Leaving would have created a dozen more 9/11s because that would have been their only focus and they would have had a violent free territory to plan and train. Also we would not any human intelligence on the ground to detect it. That's my take.

Posted by: Cruzinator at April 23, 2015 04:48 PM (P7ulB)

385 "Silly you, that's what they've got us for!"

Ahem.

Posted by: John Chisholm at April 23, 2015 04:52 PM (8dNrT)

386
>>>>Leaving would have created a dozen more 9/11s because


can't nation build in islamic nations, just can't.

Posted by: yo at April 23, 2015 04:52 PM (W6iIX)

387 yo: "This is some SmartMilitary bloggin right here, yo"

Yo!

Posted by: FireHorse at April 23, 2015 04:53 PM (8dNrT)

388 I hope Rand Paul makes it an issue again. Because it is an issue worth discussing.

I hope he STFU about it because it only encourages idiots who are wrong to spout off and possibly discourage the killing of those that need to be dead.

I present this thread and the We're Wrong and Damn Sure about it squad that shows up re: this forever.

It's FR droolworthy. The only way this gets stupider is if Ronulans find it.

Posted by: DaveA at April 23, 2015 04:53 PM (DL2i+)

389
And as for giving up our sources to get terrorists in the name of openness....what sources? People on the ground in those counties? Prepare to have few to no sources then, because we've seen what happens when terrorists know who our eyes and ears on the ground are, and no one there is going to side with a tribe who cannot be assed to protect them.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker at April 23, 2015 04:54 PM (k8xvx)

390 "Ah, you rube. Unfortunately you'll just never be as smart or capable as I am, since you have yet to pass the bar exam."

Fo shizzle, mo nizzle!

Posted by: Alfred the Great at April 23, 2015 04:56 PM (8dNrT)

391 Posted by: lurkingestlurker at April 23, 2015 04:54 PM (k8xvx)

I seem to remember some tale about a doctor that assisted the US in Pakistan, that worked out well for him!

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 23, 2015 04:56 PM (ftVQq)

392 Just like he said he was responsible for getting us out of Iraq, until it went pear-shaped, then he said the military decided the issue.

Posted by: Bud Norton at April 23, 2015 04:57 PM (6cOMd)

393 I hope he STFU about it because it only encourages idiots who are wrong to spout off and possibly discourage the killing of those that need to be dead.

I present this thread and the We're Wrong and Damn Sure about it squad that shows up re: this forever.

It's FR droolworthy. The only way this gets stupider is if Ronulans find it.

-----

You have way too much faith in Obama and whoever else may become President. I do not share it.

I'm fine with killing those that need to be killed, but I am not ok with that authority resting with one man and one man alone at all times, particularly if US citizens are casualties.

You clearly are - and that is your prerogative. Again, you have far more faith in Obama than I do.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 04:58 PM (gmeXX)

394 Further, if we are going to wage war, I'm not sure I want to do it with just drones operated from someone completely remote from the battlefield.

Keep pretending like you are the tough guy because you are willing to let Obama kill anyone.

I doubt any great and honorable military officer in history would agree with you.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 05:03 PM (gmeXX)

395 I plan to do an executive order with my pen and my phone:

If I do something that works out it is entirely due to my intelligence, skill and leadership.

If it doesn't-it had nothing to do with it and what went wrong was entirely do to the stupidity and incompetence and probable malevolence of everybody else.


Understanding this will make things much simpler .for you.

Posted by: Branco Obama at April 23, 2015 05:04 PM (DXzRD)

396 If I do something that works out it is entirely due to my intelligence, skill and leadership.

If it doesn't-it had nothing to do with it and what went wrong was entirely do to the stupidity and incompetence and probable malevolence of everybody else.


Understanding this will make things much simpler .for you.

-----

So the exact opposite of Eisenhower's two statements prepared on the eve of D-Day?

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 05:05 PM (gmeXX)

397 I doubt any great and honorable military officer in history would agree with you.

Personally, I want an officer that wants to kill the enemy as safely as possible. Like clubbing baby seals.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 23, 2015 05:06 PM (evdj2)

398
It would be interesting to have the 2996 people assassinated on 9-11 weigh in on this subject.

You know, if THEY thought there was moral justification for droning AQ and anyone associated with them.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 23, 2015 05:10 PM (jeCnD)

399 Sad that hostages were killed. Bummer and all. However, i find my self less and less concerned about do-gooders skipping off to dangerous zones thinking that their hand wringing concern for third world peoples gives them invincibility. Go trot off to a hotbed of.Western hate and your chance of returning home is severely diminished.

Posted by: Russkilitlover at April 23, 2015 05:10 PM (2s/Ks)

400 No. Geneva convention specifically does not apply to spies. CIA are spies

Posted by: Thunder B, Shapeshifter at April 23, 2015 05:11 PM (qGuSZ)

401 Lots of armchair lawyers today that's all. You are entitled your opinion but you can't make it legal authority. Neither is mine. But I do know the law

Posted by: Thunder B, Shapeshifter at April 23, 2015 05:15 PM (qGuSZ)

402 It would be interesting to have the 2996 people assassinated on 9-11 weigh in on this subject.

You know, if THEY thought there was moral justification for droning AQ and anyone associated with them.

-----

I think there is plenty of moral justification for killing AQ. You assume that is who is being killed and no more. I do not share that trust in the one man doing it.

Why are you so trustworthy of Obama on this issue, but distrustful on others?

I'm happy to wage war on AQ - wage war. Frankly, I would use a little more force than simple drones.

I guess that makes me tougher than you.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 05:19 PM (gmeXX)

403 They were al qaeda


I thought facts and law were controlling

Guess feelings trump all

Like a sjw

Posted by: Thunder B, Shapeshifter at April 23, 2015 05:25 PM (qGuSZ)

404 Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 05:03 PM (gmeXX)

No one said he could kill anyone.

Posted by: Cheese eating surrender monkey student at April 23, 2015 05:27 PM (P7ulB)

405 They were al qaeda


I thought facts and law were controlling

Guess feelings trump all

Like a sjw

-----

Who says they were AQ?

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 05:29 PM (gmeXX)

406
Why are we turning this into a duck swinging competition and "who trusts Obama more" competition?
My understanding is that those who are more in favor than not of the program feel that those who are closest to the decision makers are in the best position to make a quick decision without sacrificing intelligence assets or spending so much time waffling that the moment passes. (that isn't always borne out, see Clinton, Bill) but there is some validity there.
Honestly, I am closer to that side than to those opposing it, but even then I'd be happier with better oversight or a check on its exercise.
As more the duck swinging, let's have our resident tough guys (which I am definitely not.) Answer this question: You know there's an non-state hostile that you need to neutralize,and have solid intelligence as to where it is. The host county cannot or will not assist you. Losing track of this hostilewill have measurable consequences for your operations against other non-state actors. How do you proceed? Do you have the assets to launch a man-on-ground operation. Do you have nearby resources so you can you infil and exfil effectively? Do you havegood way to get them out if it goes pear-shaped?
Like it or not, drones do bypass some (not all) but some of the concerns you have when you use boots on the ground to do the job.

There are issues that we need to discuss about how and when they are deployed, and some of us may feel that there aren't good safeguards against them being misused and that we need them. but let's not get our people killed or wounded so we can feel that we're tough enough to not need to use drones.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker at April 23, 2015 05:33 PM (k8xvx)

407 Of course it wasn't him. No way would he deliberately hurt a muslim. Americans and Italians sure, but not muslims.

Posted by: Eromero at April 23, 2015 05:35 PM (go5uR)

408
@397
THIS. Not an officer, but what little I know of tactics and strategy say that good officers get the best results they can while reducing or minimizing costs. You take care of your men, and don't put them at risk needlessly. And when you put them in harm's way, make damn sure you're doing it in a way that gets something done.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker at April 23, 2015 05:35 PM (k8xvx)

409 I love that song. It's not about Jesus. It is about exactly this. This is perfect. But you know, seeing Himself associated with one of my most favoritestestestst song ruins it, so no, no watchie. I'll listen on i-tunes and imagine blokes instead.

Posted by: bour3 at April 23, 2015 05:37 PM (5x3+2)

410
@405

In this case, Gadahn was known AQ, by us, and by other people. Wasn't just the gov't's say so. Adam Gadahn was an AQ spokesman. Hard to get less AQ than that.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker at April 23, 2015 05:38 PM (k8xvx)

411 They said they were AQ. AQ said they were AQ. Our Intel said they were AQ. And they were killed in the company of AQ

Posted by: Thunder B, Shapeshifter at April 23, 2015 05:46 PM (zOTsN)

412
@406

And if you want to see what can happen when boots on the ground goes bad and there aren't a lot of good contingency plans available: crack open a book of modern Military history.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker at April 23, 2015 05:49 PM (k8xvx)

413 There are issues that we need to discuss about how and when they are deployed, and some of us may feel that there aren't good safeguards against them being misused and that we need them. but let's not get our people killed or wounded so we can feel that we're tough enough to not need to use drones.

------

There seem to be some who do not feel the need to have a discussion at all. I'm not in that camp.

I'm not comfortable with giving a guy - like Obama - so much power if that same person is so unwilling to take any responsibility.

Drones were not part of the equation when the AUMF was enacted. Now they are. I think there use is something to debate. There may be a place for them - maybe a primary place - but there are also downsides to using them.

Are we willing to wage war or not? A deterrent to waging war is the loss of life. Do drones minimize that loss or will they cause us to take actions that maybe we shouldn't take - but will because there is no risk of life.

These are questions that a moral nation asks - or should ask. They are not the only question.

Asking these questions does not mean you are against getting the terrorists.

And they are more relevant if you are not commanded by leaders who are willing to take personal responsibility for bad outcomes. Or leaders who have shown antipathy for constitutional order.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 05:50 PM (gmeXX)

414 And I think you misinterpreted my tough comments. I do not feel the need to show how tough I am (or our country is as a whole). I wrote it as a response to those who think I (or others) are soft on AQ just because we question the use of drones, or more specifically Obama's use of drones as a technological hit list to avoid having to make other tough decisions.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 05:54 PM (gmeXX)

415 Don't stuff words in my mouth. There are legitimate arguments to be made. Make them. But for crying out loud the experts on this thread.have declared with no authority that

it violates Geneva convention. It doesn't

LOAC doesn't apply. It does

It's beyond the scope of the authority because they weren't AQ. They absolutely were

It violates some treaty. Which one?

Pakistan was violated. Maybe. Have they said so? I haven't heard it. For all we know there is an MOU that they agreed to this.

Facts should matter. Especially when discussing policy

Posted by: Thunder B, Shapeshifter at April 23, 2015 05:56 PM (zOTsN)

416 Don't stuff words in my mouth. There are legitimate arguments to be made. Make them. But for crying out loud the experts on this thread.have declared with no authority that


-----

I don't think I put any words in your mouth. But I never said any of those things. I made the inquiry as to whether we truly know they were AQ - more as a general rhetorical question. I have no real reason to doubt they are. But surely you can see the issue if the executioner and the judge are the same person.

Of course facts matter. So do many other things. I'm less concerned with the law than I am with the Constitution.

But my biggest concern is that the person doing all this is so willing to disclaim any responsibility for any bad outcomes.

If we are going to have such a President, then maybe I'd like to take away certain tools from him that I might be more willing to give to someone more honorable.

Posted by: SH at April 23, 2015 06:03 PM (gmeXX)

417 The UCMJ applies. It doesn't in this case

Posted by: Thunder B, Shapeshifter at April 23, 2015 06:04 PM (zOTsN)

418 The constitution doesn't apply to foreigners in foreign lands. Not sure where you are going with that one. I am no fan of Obama. At all. I think he should not hang the CIA out to dry on this one. But these strikes were within his legal authority as CIC. The only issue is the deaths of the American traitors. An EO says we don't drone American traitors. They get around that by saying they were targeting the building not the American traitors. I can understand an argument about that legal fiction. But the rest is nonsense. And by the way, an EO is not the strongest legal authority to limit his power. The executive issues the EO. And he can revoke it

Posted by: Thunder B, Shapeshifter at April 23, 2015 06:14 PM (zOTsN)

419
President "Don't fuck with me" Obama has decided to shorten his nickname to President "Fuckwit".



#winning!

Posted by: Dr. McCoy at April 23, 2015 06:23 PM (/EkKm)

420 "If only the fuhrer knew!"

Posted by: WannabeAnglican at April 23, 2015 07:43 PM (/l3Yp)

421 Seem to recall our airwar against the Axis didn't always go well for POWs in Axis hands. I also seem to recall we didn't stop killing the enemy from the air because the enemy is an asshole.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at April 23, 2015 08:16 PM (8rRE+)

422 "I'm not comfortable with giving a guy - like Obama - so much power if that same person is so unwilling to take any responsibility. "

Constitution says he's the Commander in Chief. He's got a Congressional authorization to employ military force at his discretion to go after the organizers of 9/11 or their organization or those who assist them. If you want to amend the Constitution you can make the argument that the Constitution needs to change. But he's acting within the Constitution as written.

With a formal declaration of war he can use nukes at discretion, organize the draft, impose rationing, etc. etc. etc.

"Drones were not part of the equation when the AUMF was enacted. "

Irrelevant. By the way it's continuously authorized with the funding votes.

Barack Hussein Obama is a war criminal. But not for drone strikes. For waging an undeclared war of aggression to topple the government of Libya.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at April 23, 2015 08:24 PM (8rRE+)

423 Obama signed off, BEFORE HE DIDN'T SIGN OFF.

Posted by: ron n. at April 23, 2015 11:27 PM (YVQn/)

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