Singer Michelle Shocked Shocks San Franscisco Audience By Telling Them "God Hates Fags"

Complicated story I can't come up with a take on.

I can't name a single song of hers but I do know the name of an album, Short Sharp Shocked, because it was relentlessly promoted by the music industry and by the media. Shocked was a woman, a left-winger, and a lesbian; what wasn't to love?

Per Twitchy, she was recently arrested for failing to disperse at an Occupy rally.

But she's a left-wing firebrand who agrees with Fred Phelps that god hates fags.

You can go on Twitter and say Michelle Shocked said ‘God hates fags,’” the singer railed, from the stage, according to witnesses, the conclusion of a monologue about the evils of gay marriage and overturning California’s Proposition 8, which legally defines marriage as a union between a woman and man. “When they stop Prop 8 and force priests at gunpoint to marry gays, it will be the downfall of civilization, and Jesus will come back.”
To add insult to, well, insult, Shocked was performing in the very liberal—and very gay friendly—San Francisco. The operator of the venue, Yoshi’s, interrupted the performance, saying that, as a gay man, he could not allow Shocked to continue and demanded she leave the stage. He was likely as confused as many of her fans were. What had happened to the open, anti-establishment, progressive Michelle Shocked they had fallen in love with?

Previously she expressed some conflict between her sexual choices and her Christian conversion:

“There are some inconvenient truths that I’m now a born again, sanctified, saved-in-the-blood Christian,” she told the Dallas Voice in 2008. “So much of what’s said and done in the name of that Christianity is appalling. According to my Bible, which I didn’t write, homosexuality is immoral. But homosexuality is no more or less a sin than fornication. And I’m a fornicator with a capital F.”

But she seems to have resolved the conflict, and not in a way that her largely gay, entirely left-wing crunchy-folky remaining fans seem to like:

She performed at the Wild Goose festival in 2011, and lashed out at an audience member who asked her about homosexuality. “Who drafted me as a gay icon?” she said. “You are looking at the world’s greatest homophobe. Ask God what He thinks.”

It almost goes without saying that nine of her upcoming tour dates have been cancelled by the venues themselves.

I really can't come up with any take on this. The best I can do is, "People are complicated things."

Difficult Question: If her music was previously worthy, has it become unworthy now that she's a homophobe?

Left wing people claim that it doesn't matter, and relentlessly mock the right for our boycotts and refusal to buy into entertainments made by people who clearly hate us. At least, left wing people claim this so long as it's right wing values being gored; the moment someone gores the left wing's ox, they boycott like crazy.

So: Does it matter or not?

Tangentially related is the story of The Education of Little Tree, originally published as the nonfiction retelling of Indian stories about Indian values (nature, etc.) heard from a Cherokee, and widely acclaimed.

Because, how could liberal reviewers not praise it? It touches all their erogenous zones in the right order and with the right degree of intensity.

But it turns out the book was written by a former Ku Klux Klansman whose connection to Cherokees seems to be of the Elizabeth Warren variety.

So: Is the book still good?

Corrected: I thought I read that she invited people to "look it up," regarding God's views on homosexuality. I can't seem to find that reference now so I've deleted it from the headline.

Posted by: Ace at 03:59 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Who?

Posted by: Iblis at March 19, 2013 04:01 PM (9221z)

2 People are strange. Morrison said so.

Posted by: Joejm65 at March 19, 2013 04:02 PM (f7n8D)

3 MEh.

My give a damn is busted.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 19, 2013 04:02 PM (RTZ9e)

4 Have the Indigo Girls or Ani DiFranco been reached for comment yet?

Posted by: ejo at March 19, 2013 04:02 PM (GXvSO)

5 Shut up and sing.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at March 19, 2013 04:02 PM (+z4pE)

6 is it not possible that this-

When they stop Prop 8 and force priests at gunpoint to marry gays, it will be the downfall of civilization, and Jesus will come back.”

Was said in totally tongue in cheek fashion

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 04:03 PM (g7q64)

7 Yes, the town is all abuzz about this. Probably the singular most stupid thing any entertainer every said at any venue. It was a huge walk out. Even the help walked out.

I mean, if you are in show business, it might behoove you to try to not piss off 80 percent of your audience.

Posted by: navybrat at March 19, 2013 04:03 PM (3M8g3)

8 Nice chat, need to run. We are burning her at the stake tonight.

Posted by: Mr Moo Moo at March 19, 2013 04:03 PM (Q9qpj)

9 Never heard of her. Now, get off my lawn!

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 19, 2013 04:03 PM (UOM48)

10 Not buying it. It's gotta be some sort of performance art.

Posted by: Phil Smith at March 19, 2013 04:03 PM (gMPJM)

11 He was likely as confused as many of her fans were. What had happened to the open, anti-establishment, progressive Michelle Shocked they had fallen in love with?

Maybe God DOES work in mysterious ways.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 19, 2013 04:03 PM (GFM2b)

12 I say we purge her. Purge someone. The purge insists upon itself.

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (j3uk1)

13 I vaguely remember her from the 80's. Sort of tells you how relevant she is today.

Posted by: EC at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (GQ8sn)

14 No wait, I got it "White rich guy suppresses woman of indeterminate sexuality's speech"

Posted by: Iblis at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (9221z)

15 God doesn't hate fags. He doesn't hate anyone. He only hates what people do.

Posted by: parteagirl at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (5hZUi)

16 I'm shocked!

Posted by: Oswald at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (5fSr7)

17 I care so little, it's overwhelming. I do love a little blue on blue action though. (Not to be confused with girl on girl action, which come to think of it, it pretty sweet too.)

Posted by: OSUsux at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (DFXmi)

18 Was she trying to be "ironic"?

(Is putting 'ironic' in quotes ironic?)

Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (TGvYE)

19
PR artists - is there anything they can't do? Who'd ever heard of this bitch before this?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (IDSI7)

20 Since this is guaranteed to bring in the Bovine Concern Troll

Moo Moo, whenever you get here ....

FUCK YOU TOO !!!

Posted by: Lt Col Frank Slade at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (mCvL4)

21 Prescription drugs.

Posted by: NCKate at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (OfPTF)

22

She's ripe with broken dreams
Her lovers never stay
It looks like Mona Lisa
Is having a bad day
Mona Lisa is having a bad day

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (XYSwB)

23 Rob Bell supports same-sex marriage

Bell made the comments at a forum in San Francisco

Updated: Tuesday, 19 Mar 2013, 7:16 AM EDT

Published : Tuesday, 19 Mar 2013, 1:18 AM EDT

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) - Controversial author and
former pastor of Mars Hill Bible Church in Grandville came out in support of
marriage equality during a forum March 17 in San Francisco.

During the forum at Grace Cathedral, an Episcopal church,
Bell was asked about his position on gay marriage, and responded by saying,
"I am for marriage. I am for fidelity. I am for love, whether it's a man
and woman, a woman and a woman, a man and a man. I think the ship has sailed
and I think the church needs -- I think this is the world we are living in and
we need to affirm people wherever they are."

Posted by: AMERICA IS GAY GAY ALL GAY ALL THE TIME at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (Bv9qa)

24 My tolerant SF friends are outraged! See their venom at www.sfgate.com.

Posted by: Yale Taft Portman: Gay Son at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (wIgpo)

25 FHI, God doesn't hate anyone.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (+z4pE)

26 Shocked, when the walls fell.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (TGvYE)

27 If she's a saved in the blood Christian she ought to know that the Bible says nothing about Priests being forced to perform marriages as being a sign of Jesus' return.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 04:05 PM (g7q64)

28 (Not to be confused with girl on girl action, which come to think of it, it pretty sweet too.)

Oh really?

Posted by: Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and Nancy Pelosi at March 19, 2013 04:05 PM (B/VB5)

29 The barrel is hungry.

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:05 PM (j3uk1)

30 Are you here for drugs?

Posted by: Charlie Sheen, reprising an 80s role at March 19, 2013 04:05 PM (Q9qpj)

31 The barrel's over there --------->

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 19, 2013 04:05 PM (UOM48)

32 Why do singers (and actors) feel their talent extends to them some right to spout off about any and all things? Shut up and sing.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at March 19, 2013 04:05 PM (f9c2L)

33 I smell barrel.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 19, 2013 04:06 PM (GFM2b)

34
>Not buying it. It's gotta be some sort of performance art
I agree... some sort of Andy Kaufman-esque put-on

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at March 19, 2013 04:06 PM (SCcgT)

35 I'm thinking she reconciles these two seemingly contradictory positions by being batshit crazy.

Posted by: Obligatory CC fat joke at March 19, 2013 04:06 PM (RD7QR)

36 And I’m a fornicator with a capital F.

So she's really Sandra Fluke?

Posted by: EC at March 19, 2013 04:06 PM (GQ8sn)

37 I had one of her CD's back in the day. I think I used it as a coaster. Maybe it had one catchy tune.

Posted by: sTevo at March 19, 2013 04:06 PM (LGc/y)

38 Okay we need the ban hammer stat.

Isn't it ironic - Alanis Morrisette.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 19, 2013 04:06 PM (RTZ9e)

39 Geesh. I would suggest studying a little more scripture before running around shooting off your mouth. God doesn't hate fags. He doesn't hate sinners. In fact, the whole point of salvation is that while we were yet sinners, Christdied for us.

Posted by: Liberty Lover at March 19, 2013 04:06 PM (encrR)

40 “There are some inconvenient truths that I’m now a born again, sanctified, saved-in-the-blood Christian,”

Like "You are a really, really irrelevant person."

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:06 PM (j3uk1)

41 Please God, please inflict Harry Reid with cancer of the dick and let him die a horrifically painful death. And then let him burn in hell for eternity.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at March 19, 2013 04:06 PM (wbmaj)

42 America goes into the barrel.

Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 19, 2013 04:06 PM (8ZskC)

43 It almost goes without saying that nine of her upcoming tour dates have been cancelled by the venues themselves.

In before the concern troll says "you Bible thumpers are oppressing us, why can't you let live and leave us alone"

Posted by: kbdabear at March 19, 2013 04:06 PM (mCvL4)

44 I'm shocked.

I got nuthin. Later you morons.

Posted by: eleven at March 19, 2013 04:07 PM (KXm42)

45
I had one of her CD's back in the day.

I recommend penicillin.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 19, 2013 04:07 PM (IDSI7)

46 Although she did piss off all the right people, so there's that.
Pulling irony on hipsters Heh.

Posted by: Iblis at March 19, 2013 04:07 PM (9221z)

47 I mean, if you are in show business, it might behoove you to try to not piss off 80 percent of your audience.
Posted by: navybrat at March 19, 2013 04:03 PM (3M8g3) You don't say...

Posted by: Dixie Chicks at March 19, 2013 04:07 PM (RD7QR)

48 And if she's a Christian, I'm a brain surgeon.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at March 19, 2013 04:07 PM (+z4pE)

49 No very hard to figure out. No one heard of her before, now we all have. There is no bad publicity in music. Just another freakshow...nothing to see here, move along.

Posted by: Gromulin at March 19, 2013 04:07 PM (SNjPs)

50 She was cute when I met her in 1994.

I can't imagine she's still cute enough to get away with this.

Posted by: Truman North and his shiny new website at March 19, 2013 04:07 PM (jEKcn)

51

8
Nice chat, need to run. We are burning her at the stake tonight.

Posted by: Mr Moo Moo at March 19, 2013 04:03 PM (Q9qpj)

Spill some milk on her first.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at March 19, 2013 04:07 PM (p7J3E)

52
Internet sez Shocked was married to Bart Bull from 1992 to 2004, and that after a 3 year engagement.

So, lesbian-ish I guess.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 19, 2013 04:08 PM (kdS6q)

53 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 04:08 PM (xN73L)

54 Posted by: AMERICA IS GAY GAY ALL GAY ALL THE TIME at March 19, 2013 04:04 PM (Bv9qa)

There will be no copyin' and pastin' from MS Word. Anyone copyin' and pastin' from Word spends the night in The Barrel

Posted by: Carr the Threadwalker at March 19, 2013 04:08 PM (mCvL4)

55 after 80 per cent of the audience (and help) walked out, Michelle Shocked invited those remaining to join her for a feast at the local Chic Fil-A. Antoine Dodson was guest of honor.

Posted by: kallisto at March 19, 2013 04:08 PM (jm/9g)

56 She was cute when I met her in 1994.

I was gonna say, the last time she had a career was roughly 1994 as far as I know.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 19, 2013 04:08 PM (B/VB5)

57

I really can't come up with any take on this. The best I can do is, "People are complicated things."

"Leftists are assholes" pretty much sums up the takeaway for me.

Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 19, 2013 04:08 PM (8ZskC)

58 There will be no copyin' and pastin' from MS Word. Anyone copyin' and pastin' from Word spends the night in The Barrel

Three guesses who that was.

Posted by: EC at March 19, 2013 04:08 PM (GQ8sn)

59 Bwahahahaha.

Just the thought of an audience full of douchebags thinking 'what-the-wha?' is funny.

Posted by: zsasz at March 19, 2013 04:08 PM (MMC8r)

60 I'm inclined to believe that her natural sexual proclivities, bible thumping brand of religion and the innate retardation required to be a leftist have decided that there is only room enough for one of them and now she has a "Thunderdome" type battle occurring in her enfeebled cranium.

Posted by: CozMark at March 19, 2013 04:09 PM (dm7Ev)

61 One of the biggest obstacles to being a Christian is the prideful desire to be liked and popular.

It looks like she has her priorities straight.

Posted by: Village Idiot at March 19, 2013 04:09 PM (utXSy)

62
No very hard to figure out. No one heard of her before, now we all have. There is no bad publicity in music. Just another freakshow...nothing to see here, move along.

Bullseye.

Next stop: rehab ("the drugs made me do it") and a comeback tour. Sheesh.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 19, 2013 04:09 PM (IDSI7)

63 Blue on Blue?

Posted by: Iblis at March 19, 2013 04:09 PM (9221z)

64 I think the correct take on this is what Ann Coulter says: "Conservatives don't hate gays, we just don't want them to get married."

The unspoken corollary, of course, is that Liberals do hate gays. Sometimes they just hate other people more.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 04:09 PM (xN73L)

65 God doesn't hate anyone Michele. If you truly are a Christian as you claim you would know that. Hate the sin, love the sinner. She sounds like she is using a radicalized version of Christianity. In other news Michelle Shocked is still actually performing! The blue on blue fire is a bit enjoyable though. There was Pachouli everywhere man!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Minnfidel at March 19, 2013 04:09 PM (+UW52)

66 Trying to make sense of what teh crazy says.. meh.. waste of time. Sounds like a nut

Posted by: The Jackhole at March 19, 2013 04:09 PM (nTgAI)

67 G-d does not hate ANYONE.

Any person who says otherwise is a lying sack of flaming poop.

Posted by: cranky-d at March 19, 2013 04:09 PM (Wmto6)

68 Is she white?

'Cause she sounds like she might be just what I'm looking for to fill a recent opening......

Posted by: Jeff Zucker, Grand Kleagle at March 19, 2013 04:09 PM (WCe8r)

69 "According to my Bible, which I didn’t write,"

And didn't read.

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:09 PM (j3uk1)

70

She's the one who also sang God Is A Real Estate Developer.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 19, 2013 04:10 PM (XYSwB)

71 Is she white?

'Cause she sounds like she might be just what I'm looking for to fill a recent opening......

Posted by: Jeff Zucker, Grand Kleagle at March 19, 2013 04:09 PM (WCe8r)

Laughing so hard in my cubicle over here.

Posted by: EC at March 19, 2013 04:10 PM (GQ8sn)

72 Posted by: Jeff Zucker, Grand Kleagle at March 19, 2013 04:09 PM (WCe8r)

HA!

Posted by: Iblis at March 19, 2013 04:10 PM (9221z)

73 I've have two of her albums "Don't ask don't tell" "got no strings". kind of bluesy stuff. One of those if you like...try. Recommendations from CD Baby, I think.

Posted by: Paladin at March 19, 2013 04:10 PM (E1aoU)

74 Michelle Shocked factoid: her signature is the words "MICHELLE SHOCKED" written out in block letters.

Posted by: Truman North and his shiny new website at March 19, 2013 04:10 PM (jEKcn)

75 It almost goes without saying that nine of her upcoming tour dates have been cancelled by the venues themselves.

In unrelated news, Inflatable Scrotum Man has seen a sharp spike in last-minute bookings.

Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 19, 2013 04:10 PM (8ZskC)

76 Ace,

On twitter Joe Rogan (comic, UFC color commentary) is getting lots of heat for saying on his podcast that transgender dudes shouldn't be able to fight women in the cage.

He's been forced to swear up and down how awesome trannies are and he's 100% pro-tranny -- just not when it comes to punching women in the face.

Rogan is super pro-weed and pro-psychedelic drugs so a lot of his fans are ultra-lefty.

They are very angry at his "hate" and "bigotry" against the tranny community.

Oh, and tranny is official hate speech language.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 19, 2013 04:11 PM (ZPrif)

77 If you are gay and you have God issues, it must be very confusing to read the Old Testament.

Posted by: sTevo at March 19, 2013 04:11 PM (LGc/y)

78 Yo Michael Palmer, get in the barrel...

Posted by: CSMBigBird at March 19, 2013 04:11 PM (jsWA8)

79 I, for one, find her views refreshing. She doesn't honor sacred cows - that's the idea, right?

Posted by: Alec Leamas at March 19, 2013 04:11 PM (iR2Oi)

80 Bitch ripped off Pink Floyd. Dig it?

Posted by: Max Entropy at March 19, 2013 04:11 PM (8xpD/)

81 If the HQ is ever in the market for a new comment system that makes barrel-goofs impossible, I'm available.

Posted by: Unsolicited Cat at March 19, 2013 04:11 PM (UypUQ)

82 I clicked on the link to read the story, then I clicked on the Cheerleaders of March Madness.

Posted by: EC at March 19, 2013 04:11 PM (GQ8sn)

83 They're for you until you speak your mind, and it doesn't agree with theirs. Then you're OUT.

Progressive = THE most REGRESSIVE mentality ever.

Posted by: © Sponge at March 19, 2013 04:12 PM (xmcEQ)

84 Jesus, what fucking planet do we live on that speaking ill of gays is the ultimate unpardonable sin? I'll say it again: male on male sodomy must be out of this world fantastic if it makes people lose their minds to this degree. Id almost be willing to try it myself if it didnt repulse me to the point of wanting to sand off my dick with an air grinder.

Posted by: The Drizzle at March 19, 2013 04:12 PM (ysCLj)

85 Michelle Shocked?

never heard of her

Posted by: Charlie Gibson at March 19, 2013 04:12 PM (Pr6hk)

86 Actually, according to me, He does.

Posted by: The First 80% of the Bible at March 19, 2013 04:12 PM (vl5mg)

87 Have the Indigo Girls or Ani DiFranco been reached for comment yet?
Posted by: ejo at March 19, 2013 04:02 PM (GXvSO)

The Indigo Girls mention God in almost all of their songs.

And, their songs are easy to sing to.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 19, 2013 04:12 PM (XYSwB)

88 In unrelated news, Inflatable Scrotum Man has seen a sharp spike in last-minute bookings.

Enlarged Prostate Man still getting no love.

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:12 PM (j3uk1)

89 Your career is failing and you need to appeal to a different demographic...

...there you go!

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 19, 2013 04:12 PM (/gHaE)

90 [15 God doesn't hate fags. He doesn't hate anyone. He only hates what people do. ]

That's not true. God hates hipsters. It's in the bible.

Posted by: Warden at March 19, 2013 04:12 PM (HzhBE)

91 Even the moonbat lefty "artists" are sick of this ghey marriage shit.

Posted by: seamrog at March 19, 2013 04:13 PM (+E99t)

92 Put down the bong.

That explains it, that or her girl friend left her.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 19, 2013 04:13 PM (wR+pz)

93 For context, there's a dude named Fallon Fox who cut off his dick and now beats up chicks for money at Indian casinos.

Now that UFC has female fighters, he/she/it wants to join the UFC.

If you see pics/vids of the dude --- he's obviously a dude.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 19, 2013 04:13 PM (ZPrif)

94 It doesn't have to be complicated, God hates socialists, look it up.

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at March 19, 2013 04:13 PM (epxV4)

95 She has very large white teeth.

Posted by: Penfold at March 19, 2013 04:13 PM (Fbt5B)

96 she had a single a million years ago that I cannot remember. I do recall that when it was playing on the radio, the story also came out that she was homeless for a time. Wiki says he mother had her committed for mental health care several times in her teen years. I think she has mental health issues.

Posted by: thunderb at March 19, 2013 04:13 PM (Dnbau)

97 Dear Michelle,
http://youtu.be/6NXnxTNIWkc

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 19, 2013 04:13 PM (RTZ9e)

98 She was on the bill at a bluegrass festival I went to in NC in the late 90's (who books these thing I do not know).
She sang one song in the 45 minutes she was on stage, and didn't finish it. The rest of it was a public mental breakdown that was EPIC at the time. Something about global warming and the geys... anyhow, batshit crazy then, looks the same now...

Posted by: BunkerintheBurbs at March 19, 2013 04:13 PM (X3xYu)

99 I owned a Michelle Shocked album about 20 years or so ago, when my now college-age daughter was a baby. I especially liked Shocked's song 'Anchorage', and was surprised she couldn't make the transition from little-known folk singer to pop singer given her vocal ability and songwriting skills.

She sounds very confused to me. No doubt her detractors will blame her seeming mental instability on her religious conversion. I'd say neither has anything to do with the other. It's a shame.

Posted by: troyriser at March 19, 2013 04:13 PM (vtiE6)

100 If the HQ is ever in the market for a new comment system that makes barrel-goofs impossible, I'm available.
Posted by: Unsolicited Cat at March 19, 2013 04:11 PM (UypUQ)

Some here like the barrel

Posted by: The Jackhole at March 19, 2013 04:13 PM (nTgAI)

101 If you are gay and you have God issues, it must be very confusing to read the Old Testament.

And the New, particularly the first couple chapters of Romans.

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 19, 2013 04:14 PM (/ZHx6)

102 On twitter Joe Rogan (comic, UFC color commentary) is getting lots of
heat for saying on his podcast that transgender dudes shouldn't be able
to fight women in the cage.

That just makes sense. A tranny dude is still a dude underneath and has an advantage over a woman in terms of physical ability. But then, maybe watching a Gina Carrino type woman beat the everloving shit out of a tranny might be entertaining.

Posted by: EC at March 19, 2013 04:14 PM (GQ8sn)

103 God doesn't hate fags. He doesn't hate anyone. He only hates what people do.

Wrong. God hates all the people that I hate. We think alike.

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi, Catholic at March 19, 2013 04:14 PM (8ZskC)

104 California = Anti-Freedom

They hate that pesky Constitution over there.

Posted by: © Sponge at March 19, 2013 04:14 PM (xmcEQ)

105 Wrong venue to address a complicated issue with flippancy and wrong-headed theology.

Lose-Lose-Lose situation.

Of course, it made San Fran hippies cry, so it wasn't all bad.

Posted by: red speck at March 19, 2013 04:14 PM (9/Ug/)

106 On the Shocked issue -- isn't it well known that she's, literally, psychotic? Like major mental health problems. I'm impressed she functions well enough to make it to a gig.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 19, 2013 04:14 PM (ZPrif)

107 What are the Indigo Girls doing now? I love them.

Posted by: Jaimo at March 19, 2013 04:14 PM (9U1OG)

108 Some weird ish. One thought that crossedmy mind:is she being a moby? Trying to reinforce the leftist prejudice that this is what Christians are like? Seems unlikely that she go that far and suffer that kind of blowback just to take one for the team. Maybe she's planning a change of heart later? To get the strange new respect accorded conservatives who go wobbly?

Posted by: Bud Norton at March 19, 2013 04:15 PM (6cOMd)

109 um...good for her?

On a side, note, so, what, now being anti-gay is enough to get you kicked off stage and your contracts violated?

I am pretty sure that other artists who play at these venues are anti-a-lot-of-things, some of which are offensive.

I guess there's a whole lot more gheys than we thought, and they all want to get married or this is just some imaginary ethical thought experiment gone awry.

Posted by: joeindc44 says God bless Francis I at March 19, 2013 04:15 PM (QxSug)

110 On twitter Joe Rogan (comic, UFC color commentary) is getting lots of heat for saying on his podcast that transgender dudes shouldn't be able to fight women in the cage.That just makes sense. A tranny dude is still a dude underneath and has an advantage over a woman in terms of physical ability. But then, maybe watching a Gina Carrino type woman beat the everloving shit out of a tranny might be entertaining.
Posted by: EC at March 19, 2013 04:14 PM (GQ8sn)

heh

Posted by: The Jackhole at March 19, 2013 04:15 PM (nTgAI)

111 ~~Cocaine~~ Angel Dust is a helluva drug.

Posted by: Rick James at March 19, 2013 04:15 PM (feFL6)

112 Clearly, her performance was Hacked(TM).

Posted by: Stirner at March 19, 2013 04:15 PM (Ytuz8)

113 I'm guessing she won't be on the Lilith Fair lineup?

Posted by: Minnfidel at March 19, 2013 04:15 PM (+UW52)

114 I'll say it again: male on male sodomy must be out of this world fantastic if it makes people lose their minds to this degree.

You know, there is something odd about how so many people find this more urgent and fascinating than a looming multi-trillion dollar financial disaster.

But still, hawt.

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:16 PM (j3uk1)

115
She was cute when I met her in 1994.

You know who was surprisingly pretty back in the day? The young Sinead O'Connor -- before she shaved her dome and got all angry.

http://tinyurl.com/d37jou7

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 19, 2013 04:16 PM (kdS6q)

116

Posted by: Bi at March 19, 2013 04:17 PM (Pr6hk)

117 Yeah, I always confused Sinead O'Connor and Michelle Shocked. Lumped em together into just a raging crazy ball of angry singing vaginas.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 19, 2013 04:17 PM (ZPrif)

118 In before Gabe to remind you how fragile the GOP's coalition is.
Looks like a "Pacific Rim native" in the left's armour. Can't use that other word.

Posted by: comatus at March 19, 2013 04:17 PM (qaVK+)

119 107 What are the Indigo Girls doing now? I love them.............Something to do with boxes and carpet?

Posted by: Minnfidel at March 19, 2013 04:17 PM (+UW52)

120 Posted by: The First 80% of the Bible at March 19, 2013 04:12 PM (vl5mg)

I'm not really sure what you're referring to.

If you mean homosexuality (that is: the act of dudes getting it on with other dudes, or girls getting it on with other girls*) He hates that through 100% of the Bible. Newsflash: He also hates murder, covetousness, adultery, theft, and not resting on Saturday.

If you're saying he hates people who are homosexual- not so much. David had his best friend murdered because he'd slept with that man's wife. Yet he was still said to be "a man after God's own heart."

Moses had flaws aplenty, and tried to elevate himself to the same level as God. Yet he was still called "a friend of God."

*- I've had at least one person point out that all the other commands about who/what you're not supposed to Do It with, it specifies both Men and Women, but when it gets to the part about "A man shall not lie with a man like he lies with a woman," not all translations have a reciprocal statement for women. For whatever "hmmmm" value that's worth.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 04:17 PM (xN73L)

121 Things God hates:
1. People who wear "zany" hats to show that they are free spirited.
2. Kay Jewelers ads.
3. Rat sized dogs that yip, shake and pee on the floor whenever the doorbell rings.
4. Sarah Jessica Parker
5. Women who love Sarah Jessica Parker
6. Necco Wafers
7. Men who propose to women on Jumbotrons

Posted by: Warden at March 19, 2013 04:17 PM (HzhBE)

122 You know who was surprisingly pretty back in the day? The young Sinead O'Connor -- before she shaved her dome and got all angry.

Growing old sucks.

Anyone remember Kelly LeBrock from Weird Science? Have you seen a recent pic of her now? *cries*

Posted by: EC at March 19, 2013 04:17 PM (GQ8sn)

123 Diversity in thought is our strength. But not that diverse, huh.

Posted by: toby928© sips the sweet tea of despair at March 19, 2013 04:18 PM (QupBk)

124 So a transgressive folk singer actually transgresses and the soi-disant transgressive audience is not pleased at the transgression.

Well that sounds about right.

Posted by: Mætenloch at March 19, 2013 04:18 PM (pAlYe)

125 That's not true. God hates hipsters. It's in the bible.

Posted by: Warden at March 19, 2013 04:12 PM (HzhBE)

No, actually God 'SMH' @ hipsters.

Posted by: Unsolicited Cat at March 19, 2013 04:18 PM (UypUQ)

126 How come it's never the lipstick lesbians that know how to sing???

Posted by: Bill from Chappaqua at March 19, 2013 04:18 PM (Pr6hk)

127 The young Sinead O'Connor -- before she shaved her dome and got all angry.

I can still remember her going all Pope-hatey after an appearance on SNL, decades ago. The audience gaped in silence.

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:18 PM (j3uk1)

128 You know, there is something odd about how so many people find this more urgent and fascinating than a looming multi-trillion dollar financial disaster.

Caged animals tend to spend a lot more time focusing on sex than they would if they were in the wild, I hear.

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 19, 2013 04:18 PM (/ZHx6)

129 You know who was surprisingly pretty back in the day? The young Sinead O'Connor -- before she shaved her dome and got all angry.

http://tinyurl.com/d37jou7

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 19, 2013 04:16 PM

Add 50 lbs and 20 years, and yeh

I remember when she cancelled an SNL appearance because Andrew Dice Clay was the guest host ..

"Too bad, she was a cute bald chick"

Posted by: kbdabear at March 19, 2013 04:18 PM (mCvL4)

130 Anyone remember Kelly LeBrock from Weird Science? Have you seen a recent pic of her now? *cries*

Kristie Alley broke my heart, and multiple chairs.

Posted by: toby928© sips the sweet tea of despair at March 19, 2013 04:19 PM (QupBk)

131 God may not hate, but is not afraid to open a can of whoop ass.

Posted by: nip at March 19, 2013 04:19 PM (11Tdq)

132 114 I'll say it again: male on male sodomy must be out of this world fantastic if it makes people lose their minds to this degree.

You know, there is something odd about how so many people find this more urgent and fascinating than a looming multi-trillion dollar financial disaster.
******
I know, right?
This largely hypothetical question of whether gheys can marry* (as if we're forcing them to part sadly in a train station, as one looks out the window at the other chasing after the train) has seemingly become more important than any other issue out there, including things like OMFG we're going to implode financially into Zimbabwe if we don't start taking finances seriously.

*based on my own prejudices, sure lesbian bed death couples 98% but they beat each other too much, males...3% would get married.

Posted by: joeindc44 says God bless Francis I at March 19, 2013 04:19 PM (QxSug)

133 Let me be blunt.

I don't know ANY of these fuckers and don't give a shit.

Have a nice day, ace how about a thread with content?

I know it is sort of against the rules, but now that you are a winner, what do you say?

Something, pithy for god's sake.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 19, 2013 04:19 PM (wR+pz)

134 a raging crazy ball of angry singing vaginas.

MOAB

Mother Of All Banshees

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:19 PM (j3uk1)

135

If the HQ is ever in the market for a new comment system that makes barrel-goofs impossible, I'm available.

Posted by: Unsolicited Cat at March 19, 2013 04:11 PM (UypUQ)

Some here like the barrel

Posted by: The Jackhole at March 19, 2013 04:13 PM (nTgAI)

You really don't come here for the hunting, do you?

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 19, 2013 04:19 PM (TIIx5)

136 I should have porked her when I had the chance.

Posted by: Truman North and his shiny new website at March 19, 2013 04:19 PM (jEKcn)

137 sock off.

Posted by: Serious Cat at March 19, 2013 04:19 PM (UypUQ)

138 I can still remember her going all Pope-hatey after an appearance on SNL, decades ago. The audience gaped in silence.

She ripped up a picture of the Pope on live tv.

The next week, Joe Pesci hosted and he held up the same pic that was all taped back together.

Posted by: EC at March 19, 2013 04:20 PM (GQ8sn)

139 Someone commented on "pastor" Rob Bell and his support of gay "marriage": Bell is one of a long list of leftist assholes who peddle a watered-down, "god is love and supports any behavior as long as its love" type of gospel. Sorry folks, but god aint "all love, all the time". If you knowingly committ sin and wrap yourself in the mantle of having gods favor to make your sin seem acceptable, you are on the bullet train to hell. I laugh at the folks on my leftist brothers facebook page who claim to be "gay christians". You might be one, but you are absolutely not the other, if you follow the very gospel you claim to adhere to like a modern apostle.

Posted by: The Drizzle at March 19, 2013 04:20 PM (ysCLj)

140 This is my Shocked face.

http://tinyurl.com/cr8etdx

Posted by: Michelle Shocked at March 19, 2013 04:20 PM (8ZskC)

141 I really can't come up with any take on this. The best I can do is, "People are complicated things."

People change as they age.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 19, 2013 04:20 PM (XYSwB)

142 They are very angry at his "hate" and "bigotry" against the tranny community.

Women want equality? There it is. Climb in a locked cage with a 250 lb guy with MMA rules.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 19, 2013 04:20 PM (GFM2b)

143 Every time I go into a public men's bathroom Andrew smell the hideous smells I automatically think that gay dudes really, REALLY are insane. Who would choose to fuck a man's skeevy hairy ass voluntarily?

I'm going to throw up.

Posted by: Ergathilarious at March 19, 2013 04:20 PM (QlTaC)

144 I wish Zappa did a better version of Jesus Thinks You're A Jerk.

Posted by: sTevo at March 19, 2013 04:20 PM (LGc/y)

145 "I've have two of her albums "Don't ask don't tell" "got no strings".
kind of bluesy stuff. One of those if you like...try. Recommendations
from CD Baby, I think."

None match her debut "Pussy Eatin' Blues."

Posted by: Alec Leamas at March 19, 2013 04:20 PM (iR2Oi)

146 Anyone remember Kelly LeBrock from Weird Science? Have you seen a recent pic of her now? *cries*

Met her through her brother about a decade ago. Even back then she went all barrel-bellied and was not a pretty sight.

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:20 PM (j3uk1)

147 This is hilarious.
If you're in a supposedly rebellious form of entertainment, like rock once was, what are you going to do to shock people these days? There's nothing left really. This chick, whoever she is, at least said/did something genuinely controversial ---idiotic, true, but SHOCKING.

Sexual license, anti-Americanism, Christian-bashing, even cop-killing,.....eh. Old stuff.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 19, 2013 04:20 PM (C8mVl)

148 No Grumpy Cat, even the Ban Sidhe think Sinead is totally crazy and kicked her out.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 19, 2013 04:20 PM (RTZ9e)

149 @121

Just a fucking minute here Necco wafers?

Fucking commie.

OK they are made in MA, I'll give you that.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 19, 2013 04:21 PM (wR+pz)

150 we are outraged, flummoxed, and full of consternation

Posted by: the Indigo Girls at March 19, 2013 04:21 PM (Dll6b)

151 Oh....and Who?

Posted by: © Sponge at March 19, 2013 04:21 PM (xmcEQ)

152 Moses had flaws aplenty, and tried to elevate himself to the same level as God. Yet he was still called "a friend of God."

Don't get me started.

Posted by: God at March 19, 2013 04:21 PM (8ZskC)

153 Anyone remember Kelly LeBrock from Weird Science? Have you seen a recent pic of her now? *cries*

***

Not only is she fat and ugly but she has also had plastic surgery which has given her that "take me to your leader, Earthling" look.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 19, 2013 04:21 PM (XUKZU)

154 121 you forgot that god hates those little conversation hearts too.

Posted by: NCKate at March 19, 2013 04:22 PM (OfPTF)

155 Lumped em together into just a raging crazy ball of angry singing vaginas.Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 19, 2013 04:17 PM (ZPrif) That phrase wins the internet for today.

Posted by: joncelli at March 19, 2013 04:22 PM (RD7QR)

156 Logically there are a couple of problems with god hating fags.
1.) He's a moron, since he's to blame for their existence.
2.) He doesn't exist.

Posted by: Whatev at March 19, 2013 04:22 PM (A7Wh1)

157 ...I can't come up with a take on.
---

This is a crazy way to get a invitation to meet the new Pope.

I say publicity Stunt. She has nowhere to go but up.

Posted by: sTevo at March 19, 2013 04:22 PM (LGc/y)

158

someone's hankerin for a trip to the cornfield..

Posted by: soothsayer, of the Righteous & Harmonious Fists at March 19, 2013 04:22 PM (uaJ2E)

159 Damn I just left the GOP coalition thread to get away from this subject. What the hell I'll just put my swimming trunks on and jump back in the pool. Notice it was trunks and not a speedo so you guys can tell which side of the debate I'm on.

Posted by: polynikes at March 19, 2013 04:22 PM (m2CN7)

160 No, it's not that hard to reconcile Christianity with the injunctions about homosexuality. Gay Christians I know say one or more of the following "The prohibitions have more to do with the cultural need to have lots of children to keep the Jewish people going" "that they have a difference of opinion with Paul", " that Jesus didn't say anything about homosexuality" and that culture had no understanding of people being born that way and the church is too focused on sex. Oh, yes, there's the "Paul was a self loathing gay in the closet" which I find ridiculous. I'm not presenting this to debate it. Just bringing up what gay Christians say/ There is a lot of written on this for years.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 04:22 PM (g7q64)

161 OK. The economy is collapsing. Homosexuals have shit on their cocks. Discuss.

Posted by: Ergathilarious at March 19, 2013 04:23 PM (QlTaC)

162 Saw Michelle Shocked in concert at Bumbershoot one year. Just her and her guitar on stage. It was awesome.

Posted by: Award-Winning Assault Citizen Anachronda at March 19, 2013 04:23 PM (FzhYM)

163
I believe she was trying to be super edgy while also being stoned/drunk out of her mind. The stunt ended predictably.....she'll offer her mea culpa's, do a month or two at a 'back to nature' lesbian retreat, post pics of her boobs on the internet, involve herself in some 'scandal' to keep her name in the news, (jealous ex-boyfriend/girlfriend, and home made porn video)....and in just a few short years, all will be forgiven.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at March 19, 2013 04:23 PM (0IhFx)

164 Not only is she fat and ugly but she has also had plastic surgery which
has given her that "take me to your leader, Earthling" look.

I'm glad I already spanked it to her when I was a young lad. I could have re-grouted the entire Mall of America after that movie came out. Twice.

I don't think I could do it now.

Posted by: EC at March 19, 2013 04:24 PM (GQ8sn)

165 It's probably a good idea to know your venue before insulting your customers.

This is why Madonna is still popular and can get away with the shit she stirs, even when she looks like an old pitbull's chew toy.

Posted by: Fritz at March 19, 2013 04:24 PM (WM+rJ)

166
How come it's never the lipstick lesbians that know how to sing???
Posted by: Bill from Chappaqua

The exception that proofs the rule.

Ditty Bops: Wishful Thinking

http://tinyurl.com/yfuxccx

Love the song. They got gay married to each other a while back.

Oh, that tall drink of water....

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 19, 2013 04:24 PM (kdS6q)

167 That's why polls show support of gay marriage at 60% but it always loses at the ballot box. If you say anything bad about it, the gay marriage industry tries to destroy you.

Posted by: Max Entropy at March 19, 2013 04:24 PM (8xpD/)

168 Tangentially related is the story of The Education of Little Tree, originally published as the nonfiction retelling of Indian stories about Indian values (nature, etc.) heard from a Cherokee, and widely acclaimed.
---
But it turns out the book was written by a former Ku Klux Klansman whose connection to Cherokees seems to be of the Elizabeth Warren variety.

So: Is the book still good?

If a gay goes down in a forest and no one sees, does anything come of it?

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:24 PM (j3uk1)

169 She really has come a long way. Memories of East Texas is a very good song as is The L and N Don't Stop Here Anymore.. Saw her here in SF a few years ago and hated her politics but her music was alright.

Posted by: The Mayor of Candor at March 19, 2013 04:24 PM (c4IBC)

170 I have no idea who this woman is.

My knowledge of the current music scene is zero.

I think my interest in pop music died about the time Jim Crocey did.

Get off my lawn.

Posted by: Miss Marple at March 19, 2013 04:24 PM (GoIUi)

171 I believe she was trying to be super edgy while also being stoned/drunk out of her mind.

Not a solid career plan, IMO.

Posted by: Michael Richards at March 19, 2013 04:25 PM (8ZskC)

172 There is nothing more shocking to the under-30 crowd than being anti-gay.

She makes Marylin Mansion look like a square.

Posted by: The Political Hat at March 19, 2013 04:25 PM (XvHmy)

173 Difficult Question: If her music was previously worthy, has it become unworthy now that she's a homophobe?

Can we start the banning of the word homophobe? I would tend to doubt that anyone that uses religion as a reason for not agreeing with, or wanting to have anything to do with homosexuality has a "fear" of homosexuality. They don't agree with it. Anti- would be more fitting.

The left pushes the -phobe word simply because they want to paint you as a fearmongering bigot of some kind and I'm not going to stand for it anymore.

Posted by: © Sponge at March 19, 2013 04:25 PM (xmcEQ)

174 Thank God for the gheys.

We'd never have a choir if we didn't let them sing.

Posted by: The Episcopal Church Lady at March 19, 2013 04:25 PM (wR+pz)

175 Yep. What can a rock star say to get the owners to kick them off the stage.

Fuck America! No
Fuck White People! No.
Fuck the Pope! No.
Fuck Republicans! No.
Fuck You! No.
Fuck Men! No.
Fuck Women! No.
Fuck God! No.

Gay Marriage is Immoral!

Yep.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 19, 2013 04:25 PM (ZPrif)

176 Bush sucks! Suck bush!

Posted by: The Dixie Twats at March 19, 2013 04:25 PM (QlTaC)

177 I could have re-grouted the entire Mall of America after that movie came out. Twice.

This is not up to code.

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:25 PM (j3uk1)

178 Geez, this is news? Have people ever read about Sodom and Gomorrah?

Maybe God doesn't "hate" them. I don't believe God or Jesus is capable of "hate". Which, come to think of it leads me to conclude that "God Hates Fags" is a philosophically and theologically conflicted statement.

But anyway, remembering Sodom and Gomorrah, you may want to avoid balls of fire coming from the sky and other celestial abnormalities if engaging in those practices.

Posted by: Marcus at March 19, 2013 04:25 PM (GGCsk)

179 I don't know, I ignore the idiocy of hollywood actors all the time - until they push me so far I can't stand the site of them.

If someone plays an amazing violin, do you care what they believe?

Posted by: Lea at March 19, 2013 04:25 PM (lIU4e)

180 If you're in a supposedly rebellious form of entertainment, like rock
once was, what are you going to do to shock people these days?

***

In my more delusional, wildly manic, optimistic moments, I imagine that it will become cool to be conservative precisely because the establishment is so easily offended.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 19, 2013 04:26 PM (XUKZU)

181 Jesus didn't say anything about homosexuality

He also didn't say anything (for instance) about bearing false witness. Am I supposed to assume he was okay with that, then?

Oh, or theft. He never said theft was wrong. So is that alright, now?

Sorry, I know these aren't your arguments, and all of them are pretty stupid, but that one just really annoyed me for some reason.

As for Paul being gay- assuming it were true, wouldn't that actually damn them more- since he therefore proved that you could live a Godly life without giving in to those desires?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 04:26 PM (xN73L)

182 CNN Poll: Only 33% Of Democrats Consider Israel A U.S. Ally…

Thanks G-D this Jew is not a democrat

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 19, 2013 04:26 PM (9Bj8R)

183 Hmm, a lefty that hates gays. Usually they just hate everyone who doesn't think like them.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at March 19, 2013 04:26 PM (uhftQ)

184 No, actually God 'SMH' @ hipsters.

If only he'd ZOT hipsters.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 19, 2013 04:26 PM (/kI1Q)

185 If the HQ is ever in the market for a new comment system that makes barrel-goofs impossible, I'm available.

Posted by: Unsolicited Cat at March 19, 2013 04:11 PM (UypUQ)

Some here like the barrel

Posted by: The Jackhole at March 19, 2013 04:13 PM (nTgAI)
God hates unclosed HTML tags. LOOK IT UP.

Posted by: Unsolicited Cat at March 19, 2013 04:26 PM (UypUQ)

186 This is not up to code.

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:25 PM (j3uk1)

I was thirsty.

Posted by: EC at March 19, 2013 04:26 PM (GQ8sn)

187
I have two of her albums. A friend turned me own to her music in the late 1980s.I listen to "Short, Sharp, Shocked" pretty often; the other one not so much. I heard her once in concert many, manyyears ago.

I had no idea that she had become a Christian but she needs to bone up on her Christian message. God hates the sin, but loves the sinner. And, yes, the Bible is pretty clear about fornication and adultery, though there certainly seems to be a hierarchy of sexual sins. All sin is sin, but some sins are considered worse than others.

She grew up near Lake Fork in East Texas, and I'm very familiar with the area. She's from the same group of tiny towns that also gave us Sissy Spacek and Don Henley. Must be something in the genes -- that's an awful lot of talent coming from a rural area that can't have more than five or six thousand people.

Posted by: Michael the Hobbitt at March 19, 2013 04:27 PM (hzV1U)

188 161 OK. The economy is collapsing. Homosexuals have shit on their cocks. Discuss.

Posted by: Ergathilarious at March 19, 2013 04:23 PM (QlTaC)

They CLEARLY were not practicing "Safe Sex" or the shit would be on the condom.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at March 19, 2013 04:27 PM (wR+pz)

189 * Security, pick up the red phone *

Posted by: Mall of America at March 19, 2013 04:27 PM (feFL6)

190 I'm not a Christian but I have had the Word taught to me.

>>>Someone commented on "pastor" Rob Bell and his support of gay "marriage": Bell is one of a long list of leftist assholes who peddle a watered-down, "god is love and supports any behavior as long as its love" type of gospel. Sorry folks, but god aint "all love, all the time". If you knowingly committ sin and wrap yourself in the mantle of having gods favor to make your sin seem acceptable, you are on the bullet train to hell. I laugh at the folks on my leftist brothers facebook page who claim to be "gay christians". You might be one, but you are absolutely not the other, if you follow the very gospel you claim to adhere to like a modern apostle.

How do you reconcile this with the basic bullet-point big-font header of Christianity, that Jesus Saves and has the capacity to forgive and extirpate *all* sins?

You seem to be suggesting an Acts-based method of salvation.

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:27 PM (LCRYB)

191 Growing old sucks.Anyone remember Kelly LeBrock from Weird Science? Have you seen a recent pic of her now? *cries*
Posted by: EC at March 19, 2013 04:17 PM (GQ8sn)

------------------------------------------------

Growing old isn't so bad. What I've lost in sex-appeal, I've made up in a don't-give-a-shit attitude of what people think of me. I'm more prone to tell people what I really think, which is, in most cases good, in some, bad, and a few, very bad.

Plus, I can give people a lot of shit now because I'm their fucking elder.

Posted by: Soona at March 19, 2013 04:27 PM (qGNaM)

192
The exception that proofs the rule.

Mee-sa betcha betcha they still some dickies though!

Posted by: Jar Jar at March 19, 2013 04:28 PM (0IhFx)

193 God hates hate. Woa, I think I just blew my own mind.

Posted by: somebody else, not me at March 19, 2013 04:28 PM (nZvGM)

194
my favorite part:

According to my Bible, which I didn’t write...

Posted by: soothsayer, of the Righteous & Harmonious Fists at March 19, 2013 04:28 PM (BUcLz)

195 God ihate the "jesus didnt condemn homosexuality" crap that gays use. Jesus specifically came to fulfill and affirm thelaw of god- sadly for the gheys, that also includes the pesky part where god calls it "abomination". Im not a christian by any stretch, but i also dont sit around finding new and inventive ways of twisting the bible to make itseem like god is smiling every time I stick my dick inside something it really doesnt belong in. Your mileage may vary, and if it does, god bless, so to speak.

Posted by: The Drizzle at March 19, 2013 04:28 PM (ysCLj)

196 Someone commented on "pastor" Rob Bell and his support of gay "marriage": Bell is one of a long list of leftist assholes who peddle a watered-down, "god is love and supports any behavior as long as its love" type of gospel. Sorry folks, but god aint "all love, all the time". If you knowingly committ sin and wrap yourself in the mantle of having gods favor to make your sin seem acceptable, you are on the bullet train to hell. I laugh at the folks on my leftist brothers facebook page who claim to be "gay christians". You might be one, but you are absolutely not the other, if you follow the very gospel you claim to adhere to like a modern apostle.

Well, God is love. The problem is with people's understanding of love.

As I keep pointing out, the whole gay marriage thing rests upon a particular understanding of "gay" that originated in the late Victorian period and has somehow become the cultural standard in the West, despite the fact that the vast majority of humanity, both historically and today, would find the notion of being gay, as opposed to committing certain acts, as a very bizarre way of thinking. It would be like claiming that "alcoholism" is Who You Are. Virtually the only people who get this are Queer Historians and the socons...

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 19, 2013 04:28 PM (/ZHx6)

197 All sin is sin, but some sins are considered worse than others.

I think we impose that. Cheating at cards gets you to hell just as surely, and in some games I've been in, a lot quicker.

Posted by: toby928© sips the sweet tea of despair at March 19, 2013 04:28 PM (QupBk)

198 I'm glad I already spanked it to her when I was a young lad. I could have re-grouted the entire Mall of America after that movie came out. Twice.

I don't think I could do it now.

They have whole health clinics devoted to that problem now, I'm told.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 04:28 PM (xN73L)

199

I really can't come up with any take on this. The best I can do is, "People are complicated things."

I've seen people break down later in life after decades of drug* use. I think the brain just gives up.

*not pot

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 19, 2013 04:28 PM (XYSwB)

200 Last I heard of Shocked, she was a hairy-pitted fugly acoustic guitar-strumming Lesbian whom every music critic on the planet was creaming his skinny jeans over.

What happened?

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at March 19, 2013 04:29 PM (7ObY1)

201 Mmm. "Gay" Catholics are what we call heretics.

To be a member of a religion you abide by all the practices.

Posted by: Marcus at March 19, 2013 04:29 PM (GGCsk)

202 I've seen people break down later in life after decades of drug* use. I think the brain just gives up.

*not pot

She doesn't look like the not-pot user crowd or else she would have wasted away years ago.

Posted by: EC at March 19, 2013 04:29 PM (GQ8sn)

203 I've got a couple of her early albums. Subtle she's not and nobody should be surprised by this. The funny thing is that her former fans are probably pissed off about this after I had to suck up the message of her earlier songs and just enjoy the musical content.

Posted by: Captain Hate at March 19, 2013 04:29 PM (cWWoC)

204 >>>God hates the sin, but loves the sinner. And, yes, the Bible is pretty clear about fornication and adultery, though there certainly seems to be a hierarchy of sexual sins. All sin is sin, but some sins are considered worse than others.

where does the Bible say that? Isn't that a man-made addition?

Isn't it possible that People -- fallible people -- might just be reading the Bible such that sins that they don't commit/aren't tempted to commit, such as gay sex, become the Big Bad, whereas the sins they DO commit and ARE tempted to commit -- heterosexual lust, extramarital affairs, premarital sex, non-procreative sex, heterosexual sodomy -- are, conveniently enough, classified as Minor Sins that God isn't too worried about?

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:30 PM (LCRYB)

205 They have whole health clinics devoted to that problem now, I'm told.

Like I said, growing old sucks.

Posted by: EC at March 19, 2013 04:30 PM (GQ8sn)

206 @ ace #190: I actually mean people twisting and using the bible to affirm choices that are clearly spoke against in said bible. Sorry if im unclear. I dont usually read my posts until their up, and a lot of times they sound completely different than how I meant them.

Posted by: The Drizzle at March 19, 2013 04:31 PM (ysCLj)

207 Some here like the barrel

***

NTTAWWT

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 19, 2013 04:31 PM (XUKZU)

208 Continuing from my last comment where I called god a moron. I'm always open to solid proof, and would consider winning the next powerball to be sufficient proof.

Posted by: Whatev at March 19, 2013 04:31 PM (A7Wh1)

209 Asa Carter (the Klansman who wrote Little Tree) also wrote the work that was turned into "The Outlaw Josey Wales", which for my money dealt with the aftermath of the Civil War more sensitively than anything else I can think of. Takes one of Quantrill's raiders and makes a genuine hero out of him, one you can't help but sympathize with.

And after writing all that good stuff, Carter supposedly died in a drunken brawl at age 54. I imagine the character Josey Wales was in some way a version of how he saw himself.

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 19, 2013 04:31 PM (UFTmf)

210 @190

No ace, I think he is suggesting that HELL exists.

How you get there is the question, but you can not be a Christian without accepting that there is a Hell.

People's souls go there when they do not accept Christ. Accepting Christ, but not obeying his laws won't work. God is not a dumb ass. Just the facts.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at March 19, 2013 04:31 PM (wR+pz)

211
She makes Marylin Mansion look like a square.

A pimp's homophobia is different from that of a square's.

Posted by: Officer Collins at March 19, 2013 04:32 PM (0IhFx)

212 Mmm. "Gay" Catholics are what we call heretics.

To be a member of a religion you abide by all the practices.

Posted by: Marcus at March 19, 2013 04:29 PM (GGCsk)

I'm fairly certain the practice in this sense is "don't act on it."

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at March 19, 2013 04:32 PM (ULkyQ)

213 Condoms! Gay dudes don't need them, they can't get another guy pregnant .......which means that it'not equal to boy-on-girl.....

:eyes widening: :hand to mouth:

That doesn't make sense.

Posted by: Ergathilarious at March 19, 2013 04:32 PM (fCw1i)

214 How do you reconcile this with the basic bullet-point big-font header of Christianity, that Jesus Saves and has the capacity to forgive and extirpate *all* sins?

Because we are called to be holy and to be as good as we can, not TOO be save but because we ARE saved. See Romans chapter 6, where Paul directly addresses this issue.

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 19, 2013 04:32 PM (/ZHx6)

215 I am a single point Calvinist:

T is for total depravity, which I am.

There is the whole calling thing and the response. I agree anyone can respond to the calling and be saved. Just not in our church, that's all.

Posted by: sTevo at March 19, 2013 04:32 PM (LGc/y)

216 154 121 you forgot that god hates those little conversation hearts too.

-----------

I think he meant any ~~purveyor of dairy products~~ vaguely Necco wafer-like contrivance.

Posted by: Award-Winning Assault Citizen Anachronda at March 19, 2013 04:32 PM (NmR1a)

217 People sometimes tried to suggest that Paul gave into those desires-Timothy-wink, wink, nudge, nudge, but the people who make that arguments are usually not Christians.,just other folks who have issues with Churches. John Shelby Spong-who is an Episcopal Bishop-goes with the "Paul was gay" argument and that's what the "Thorn in the flesh" was about but doesn't actually say, I think, that, Paul and Timothy got it on.
People are always very fascinated with Jesus's sexuality, but I wish they'd make up their mind if he was gay or married to Mary.

I didn't say they were good arguments-only that's what they are-among other arguments.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 04:33 PM (g7q64)

218
Why does God care about sex or what you eat?

I really want to know. I just don't get it.

Posted by: MJ at March 19, 2013 04:33 PM (vl5mg)

219 >>>od ihate the "jesus didnt condemn homosexuality" crap that gays use. Jesus specifically came to fulfill and affirm thelaw of god- sadly for the gheys, that also includes the pesky part where god calls it "abomination".

strange that God would be so concerned about a sin committed by 3% of the population and not care so much about similar sins committed by 97%.

You'd think he be more worried about the 97%.

And what of the sins of Pride and Wrath? Are they minor sins now too, which pale compared to the abomination of homosexuality?

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:33 PM (LCRYB)

220

Yes, the Lord forgives.

But the Lord also knows your heart.
If you're doing wrong and you know you're doing wrong, and then expect forgiveness as if you're taking your car through a car wash...

In other words, forgiveness comes to those who are sincerely sorry.

Posted by: soothsayer, of the Righteous & Harmonious Fists at March 19, 2013 04:33 PM (FC8Yl)

221 The best part is that the hipster doofs who were there had to pay to see her to be offended! LOL.

Posted by: Minnfidel at March 19, 2013 04:34 PM (+UW52)

222 182---" CNN Poll: Only 33% Of Democrats Consider Israel A U.S. Ally… "

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 19, 2013 04:26 PM (9Bj8R)
---------------------
Holy carp.
I assume the poll is an outlier--- but it's chilling nonetheless.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 19, 2013 04:34 PM (C8mVl)

223 God's not a moron; He just lurks here.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at March 19, 2013 04:34 PM (QTHTd)

224 I think I'm really a woman trapped in a man's body. But it's okay because she's a lesbian.

Posted by: OCBill at March 19, 2013 04:34 PM (Mj+FA)

225 >>>Because we are called to be holy and to be as good as we can, not TOO be save but because we ARE saved. See Romans chapter 6, where Paul directly addresses this issue.

right, and of course since you were saved you've stopped sinning. Right, I forgot that.

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:34 PM (LCRYB)

226 Mmm. "Gay" Catholics are what we call heretics.To be a member of a religion you abide by all the practices.
Posted by: Marcus
***

Including the diddling of alter boys./
(I denounce myself)

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at March 19, 2013 04:34 PM (uhftQ)

227 Asa Carter (the Klansman who wrote Little Tree) also wrote the work that was turned into "The Outlaw Josey Wales",

***

Remember a few weeks ago Sheila Jackson Lee said that she was a freed slave? You know who owned her? Robert Byrd.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 19, 2013 04:34 PM (XUKZU)

228 Most Christians I know don't believe in Hell. Or Satan.
I've asked them. They think God wouldn't be that mean.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 19, 2013 04:34 PM (ZPrif)

229 "Like I said, growing old sucks."
Dying young sucks worse.

Posted by: navybrat at March 19, 2013 04:35 PM (3M8g3)

230 Hmm. I think one could argue that she is taking a stab at them..rhetoricily... from a "been there, done that, I know their filthy secrets" stance.
If she is a lesbian, as they say since once a lesbian always a lesbian by the modern rule book, can she really be making slurs about her own kind? Similarly to how blacks get a pass for throwing racial epithets towards each other.

Posted by: Phil at March 19, 2013 04:35 PM (QzdcC)

231
I read the article at the link that Instapundit provided (Yahoo Music). My apologies if someone already mentioned these items above, but by the time I waded through all of the responses the next post would probably be up.

First, Ms. Shocked has apparently denied ever being a lesbian. It's a persistant rumor, but she's apparently stated that she is not.
Second, she apparently was converted to Christianity at a black congregation in Los Angeles. That right there should tell you pretty much all that you need to know about her politics. Black congregations tend to be liberal on most issues, with homosexuality being one of the very notable exceptions. Or in other words, her seemingly conflicting views fit perfectly with the place where she found religion.

Posted by: junior at March 19, 2013 04:35 PM (UWFpX)

232 >>>But the Lord also knows your heart.
If you're doing wrong and you know you're doing wrong, and then expect forgiveness as if you're taking your car through a car wash...

again, so you've stopped sinning yourself?

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:35 PM (LCRYB)

233 I'm pretty sure God isn't happy with Harry Reid the pederast politicking on the backs of seven dead Marines. The Marines aren't happy, and strangely enough, MSNBC reported it (link to Newsbusters):

http://tinyurl.com/d8tn7sr

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 19, 2013 04:35 PM (UOM48)

234 Me. I'm not really interested in Jesus' sexuality. I think it's quite reasonable to assume that he just decided to devote himself to his mission and didn't need to pursue a marriage or sex with the guys.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 04:35 PM (g7q64)

235 I really want to know. I just don't get it.

Posted by: MJ at March 19, 2013 04:33 PM (vl5mg)

Who does? It is not your position to question the rules, unless you think you are a God unto yourself and get to set your own rules.

Lots of those people out there believe that.

It's called no faith.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at March 19, 2013 04:35 PM (wR+pz)

236 Sounds like she needs a little work on her understanding of Christianity. I agree with other posters who say God loves homosexuals. He loves us all. He doesn't want us to get hurt is what she doesn't yet understand. That is the reason for the "rules."

Posted by: Californio at March 19, 2013 04:35 PM (2eIwi)

237 Isn't it possible that People -- fallible people --
might just be reading the Bible such that sins that they don't
commit/aren't tempted to commit, such as gay sex, become the Big Bad,
whereas the sins they DO commit and ARE tempted to commit --
heterosexual lust, extramarital affairs, premarital sex, non-procreative
sex, heterosexual sodomy -- are, conveniently enough, classified as
Minor Sins that God isn't too worried about?

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:30 PM (LCRYB)
The only real hierarchy of sins I really know of is "mortal" and "venial" kind.In either case, God is concerned with all of them, and for the most part you can repent and return.Any other supposed hierarchy is going to roughly cobbled together, probably by an individual taking a guess at how "repentable" it is.

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at March 19, 2013 04:36 PM (ULkyQ)

238 Jesus Saves ...

But not in a Cyprus Bank

Posted by: kbdabear at March 19, 2013 04:36 PM (mCvL4)

239 Why does God care about sex or what you eat?

I really want to know. I just don't get it.

***

God makes the rules, not man. Well, Pelosi helps him.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 19, 2013 04:36 PM (XUKZU)

240 Anybody else wishing that fuck Lane will be greeted with the barbed cock of Bubba and Tyrone tonight and every day following.

Shit wouldn't have made it out of the courtroom.

Posted by: RWC at March 19, 2013 04:36 PM (sqp6o)

241 Let those without sin cast the first stone...

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna let it burn really.really bummed at March 19, 2013 04:36 PM (9+ccr)

242 How do you reconcile this with the basic bullet-point big-font header of Christianity, that Jesus Saves and has the capacity to forgive and extirpate *all* sins?

I can't speak for the other commenter, but "it's complicated."

God's Mercy and Grace were made freely available to all people through Jesus's sacrifice on the cross. They must be freely accepted.

However, we are also told that you will no people by their "fruits," that is: what people do will tell you, in a general way, if they're good people or not. "The Fruit of the Spirit is..."

As for being able to be an active homosexual and also a Christian- a) God will judge that, not me. b) The Bible is pretty clear that continually engaging in something you know to be a sin is a pretty clear sign you haven't repented of it, yet. God's Mercy for your sin only comes after you have repented.

Even with all that said, we're talking "rule of thumb" kind of thing here. I (personally) would never presume to tell someone who is gay (even actively homosexual) who also claims Christ as his Savior that they are doomed to Hell. I will certainly let them know that their behavior is still sinful.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 04:36 PM (xN73L)

243 She's fucking awesome!!

Posted by: Senator Todd Akin (R-MO) at March 19, 2013 04:36 PM (HDgX3)

244 How do you reconcile this with the basic bullet-point big-font header of
Christianity, that Jesus Saves and has the capacity to forgive and
extirpate *all* sins?

When Jesus saved the woman taken in adultery from being executed, he didn't say, "Hey, your life is cool, toots." He said "Go and sin no more."

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 19, 2013 04:37 PM (/kI1Q)

245 That just makes sense. A tranny dude is still a dude underneath and has
an advantage over a woman in terms of physical ability. But then, maybe
watching a Gina Carrino type woman beat the everloving shit out of a
tranny might be entertaining.

UFC is probably going to have to make rules about testosterone levels in the athletes, like they do in the Olympics. There are too many edge cases in sex determination. XXY chromosomes, people with CAIS, people who self-identify as one sex, then change their mind.

Posted by: bonhomme at March 19, 2013 04:37 PM (l7etS)

246 At the risk of answering the question...

Short Sharp Shocked is still a good album.

The Education of Little Tree is still a good book. I cried when I read it, am I supposed to un-cry when the author has a complicated past?

Mel Gibson is still a great director and actor, despite being a foul drunken anti-Semite.

The works stand on their own.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 19, 2013 04:37 PM (A0sHn)

247 CNN Poll: Only 33% Of Democrats Consider Israel A U.S. Ally…

Thanks G-D this Jew is not a democrat

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 19, 2013 04:26 PM (9Bj8R)

What about Independents?

Posted by: Unsolicited Cat at March 19, 2013 04:37 PM (UypUQ)

248 >>>"God Hates Fags"

*ahem* Shocked
Romans 3

"23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. "

So does God specifically call out homosexual conduct beyond any other sinning or does God hate us all so much as we all have sinned, that he sacrificed his only son so that we might find forgiveness?

I'm Catholic so you can crawl down from your high horse. I would not love a God that hates his children.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 04:37 PM (0q2P7)

249 Who does? It is not your position to question the rules, unless you think you are a God unto yourself and get to set your own rules.

Lots of those people out there believe that.

It's called no faith.
-------------------------------
Um, yes. It is my position to question the rules. This is part of nature, and therefore created by God.

Otherwise we'd be mindless, worshiping drones.

Posted by: MJ at March 19, 2013 04:38 PM (vl5mg)

250 and not resting on Saturday.

Wait, ... I thought....

I'm fucked...

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at March 19, 2013 04:38 PM (Nf7bh)

251 We have a thread about a chick singer and we wind up debating theology instead of boobehs?

What happened to the AoSHQ I used to know?

Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 19, 2013 04:38 PM (8ZskC)

252 The Catholic church sex scandals were not about "diddling" altar boys. Overwhelmingly it was gay priests seducing confused teenage boys -- ie statutory rape.

It was overwhelmingly a problem of gay statutory rape. Gay men abusing their positions of power over the teen boys they were supposed to be helping. Just like when a high school teacher seduces a 15 year old girl.

It was framed as child molestation to avoid blaming gays. But they didn't seduce teenage girls.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 19, 2013 04:38 PM (ZPrif)

253 Billy Bob at #210, that is exactly what I meant. There seem to be an awful lot of leftist "christians" who claim the title, but never seem to worry about actually following any of gods laws. They always say "God is love, and wouldnt punish me for loving and having sex with another man, woman, dog, toaster, etc." This is pure folly and a dangerous game if you truly have read and claim to follow the teachings of the god of the bible. Again, Im no christian, but I believe in god and I would never presume to use the bible to explain away what god specifically points out as sins. Its just another way the left twists things to their warped worldview. If there is truly a god, I feel he is going to unleash the fucking whirlwind on these leftist dickheads who use the bible to prop up their lifestyles.

Posted by: The Drizzle at March 19, 2013 04:38 PM (ysCLj)

254 Christians shouldn't hate gays any more than they should hate fornicators. I think somehow, in her twisted way, she was saying that. She was saying, "I'm a sinner too."

Posted by: MaxMBJ at March 19, 2013 04:38 PM (deaac)

255 The left pushes the -phobe word simply because they want to paint you as a fearmongering bigot of some kind and I'm not going to stand for it anymore.

There comes a point in one's life where the "paint" becomes like water off a ducks back.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 19, 2013 04:38 PM (GFM2b)

256 No more King James edition.

The Bible: Serious You Guys version

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:38 PM (j3uk1)

257 236
Sounds like she needs a little work on her understanding of
Christianity. I agree with other posters who say God loves homosexuals.
He loves us all. He doesn't want us to get hurt is what she doesn't yet
understand. That is the reason for the "rules."

Posted by: Californio at March 19, 2013 04:35 PM (2eIwi)

____________
God loves gays. He loves them so much in fact, he wants them all to live in the closet and be miserable their entire lives. You know, for the children and such.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 19, 2013 04:38 PM (HDgX3)

258 >>>As for being able to be an active homosexual and also a Christian- a) God will judge that, not me. b) The Bible is pretty clear that continually engaging in something you know to be a sin is a pretty clear sign you haven't repented of it, yet. God's Mercy for your sin only comes after you have repented.

again right, so everyone here who is saved has stopped sinning.

Got it.

Like, no one commits the mortal sin of Lust when he looks at porn and jacks off.

Like everyone here has just plain stopped sinning, and so is now free to patrol others for their lapses.

Got it.

Sorry, to me this just seems to be a GIGANTIC case of "God understands my own frequent sins, but the sins of other people, THOSE sins, he's got a big problem with."

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:39 PM (LCRYB)

259 Isn't it possible that People -- fallible people -- might just be reading the Bible such that sins that they don't commit/aren't tempted to commit, such as gay sex, become the Big Bad, whereas the sins they DO commit and ARE tempted to commit -- heterosexual lust, extramarital affairs, premarital sex, non-procreative sex, heterosexual sodomy -- are, conveniently enough, classified as Minor Sins that God isn't too worried about?

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:30 PM (LCRYB)

breath of fresh air

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 19, 2013 04:39 PM (XYSwB)

260 Most Christians I know don't believe in Hell. Or Satan. I've asked them. They think God wouldn't be that mean.
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 19, 2013 04:34 PM (ZPrif)

I assume they have read the Old Testament, right? Oh yes. Omnipotent. Yep. Just skimmed past that part. I'm due for a good smiting, its been awhile.

223 God's not a moron; He just lurks here.
Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at March 19, 2013 04:34 PM (QTHTd)

I comment sometimes. I lurk everywhere. At once. Bwaa Haa Haaaaaa

Posted by: God at March 19, 2013 04:39 PM (t06LC)

261 We have a thread about a chick singer and we wind up debating theology instead of boobehs?

Boobies are holy too.

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:39 PM (j3uk1)

262 I forgot the argument that Jesus was gay and that's why he hung around with twelve other guys which indicates a poor understanding of the tradition of the rabbi in that culture.

That and given the nature of culture people just assume that everybody is having sex and that people couldn't go without sex for several years.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 04:39 PM (g7q64)

263 sock off

Posted by: Serious Cat at March 19, 2013 04:39 PM (UypUQ)

264 And what of the sins of Pride and Wrath?

Are those actually in the Bible, or did those get made up later?

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 19, 2013 04:39 PM (/kI1Q)

265 >>>Christians shouldn't hate gays any more than they should hate fornicators. I think somehow, in her twisted way, she was saying that. She was saying, "I'm a sinner too."

that was an old statement made when she was still apparently ambivalent on the issue.

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:39 PM (LCRYB)

266 right, and of course since you were saved you've stopped sinning. Right, I forgot that.

So you are mad about somethingand just want to score rhetorical points, not actually try to understand Christian theology. I wish you would have made that clearer, so I could have saved myself the trouble of responding.

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 19, 2013 04:39 PM (/ZHx6)

267 Heterosexual fornication can lead to more tithe-paying parishioners. Gay sex leads to......things most normal people would rather not think about.

Posted by: Ergathilarious at March 19, 2013 04:40 PM (51moJ)

268 Well she's right. I believe the term is "abomination before the Lord".

Posted by: maddogg at March 19, 2013 04:40 PM (OlN4e)

269 @232

NO ace, no one stops sinning, that is why we go to confession and ask for forgiveness.

God knows man is a sinner in his heart. It is a struggle daily to ask for forgiveness.

Christ has infinite forgiveness, BUT you must ask and truly repent.

Man, looks like this could be a long thread.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at March 19, 2013 04:40 PM (wR+pz)

270 I can't love a God who needs a starship

Posted by: Capt. James T Kirk at March 19, 2013 04:40 PM (mCvL4)

271

Well, according to my Bible, which I didn't write, sin separates man from God. The whole point to Christianity is to be as close to God as you can.

Any time you choose anything over your Lord, you're turning away from God.

Posted by: soothsayer, of the Righteous & Harmonious Fists at March 19, 2013 04:40 PM (FC8Yl)

272
"instead of boobehs?"

She doesn't have any.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at March 19, 2013 04:40 PM (p7J3E)

273 It is my position to question the rules. This is part of nature, and therefore created by God.

***

God also created Nazis and serial killers so I guess the Holocaust and Ted Bundy-ism are OK too.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 19, 2013 04:40 PM (XUKZU)

274 on the UFC/tranny issue.

Almost all female sports have the problem that mannish women have an inherent advantage -- being stronger and faster and ... mannish.

Most male sports don't have that, effeminate men are at a disadvantage. Certain sports that require more grace and artistic expression -- diving, figure skating -- you find a higher % of gay males succeeding at the highest levels.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 19, 2013 04:40 PM (ZPrif)

275 198 They have whole health clinics devoted to that problem now, I'm told.

---------

Ever heard of the Atlanta Genital Institute?

Posted by: Johnny Dangerously at March 19, 2013 04:40 PM (xGZ+b)

276 Meant given the nature of culture NOW.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 04:40 PM (g7q64)

277 Me. I'm not really interested in Jesus' sexuality. I think it's quite reasonable to assume that he just decided to devote himself to his mission and didn't need to pursue a marriage or sex with the guys.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 04:35 PM (g7q64)

If only I had gotten some cornhole lovin', I wouldn't have felt slighted and taken those 40 pieces of silver...

Posted by: Judas Iscariot at March 19, 2013 04:40 PM (XvHmy)

278 Boobies are holy too.

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:39 PM (j3uk1)

Yup:

( . )†( . )

Posted by: Serious Cat at March 19, 2013 04:41 PM (UypUQ)

279 Greenhouse gases are sins too. It's in the Book of Carbon, Really New Testament.

Posted by: Grumpy Cat at March 19, 2013 04:41 PM (j3uk1)

280 246 -

Ok, first of all, if you're going to use the term "great" to describe the output of Mel Gibson, you've already lost me.

His movies are silly.

The ones he intends to be silly, are still fun to watch. Granted, seeing his nutjob portrayals in the Mad Max and Lethal Weapon films, and realizing he's just playing himself sorta diminishes the accomplishment, but they're still fun to watch.

So no, nothing "just" stands on its own. Context always matters.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 19, 2013 04:41 PM (BeSEI)

281 @258

Thought, word, and deed, I am condemned for my time in Jr. High alone.

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 19, 2013 04:41 PM (t06LC)

282 247 CNN Poll: Only 33% Of Democrats Consider Israel A U.S. Ally…

You'll be sorrrreee....

Posted by: Zombie Scoop Jackson at March 19, 2013 04:42 PM (Nf7bh)

283 I can't love a God who needs a starship

Oh my.

I don't need a god, just a good man.

Posted by: Lt. Hikaru Sulu at March 19, 2013 04:42 PM (j3uk1)

284 And what of the sins of Pride and Wrath?

I'll give those up, but I won't budge on Gluttony.

Posted by: Rosie O'Donnell at March 19, 2013 04:42 PM (8ZskC)

285
Man, looks like this could be a long thread.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at March 19, 2013 04:40 PM

Since the Bovine Concern Troll just stepped in, that's pretty much a given

Posted by: kbdabear at March 19, 2013 04:42 PM (mCvL4)

286 Isn't it possible that People -- fallible people --
might just be reading the Bible such that sins that they don't commit/aren't tempted to commit, such as gay sex, become the Big Bad, whereas the sins they DO commit and ARE tempted to commit --heterosexual lust, extramarital affairs, premarital sex, non-procreative sex, heterosexual sodomy -- are, conveniently enough, classified as Minor Sins that God isn't too worried about?

It is possible. It's so possible we were warned against it. It's one of Paul's letters (I can't remember which, though) that says (basically) anyone who is guilty of any sin is guilty of every sin. Moreover, Jesus moved the realm of sin from one of action to one of desire "I tell you that any man who hates his brother in his heart is guilty of murder." (approximate quote).

So, yeah- we're all sinners and we're all going to Hell (absent God's Mercy and Grace). That said, repentance is required for us to accept that Mercy and Grace, and repentance implies turning our back (to the extent we're able- we're called to "be perfect as He is perfect" after all) on all sin.

As long as you're really trying (and only you and God know if you're really trying), then any time you screw up, Jesus will be there to pick you up, dust you off, and help you get going again. ("If we walk in the light, as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us...")

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 04:42 PM (xN73L)

287 A series of accidents led to your creation and God is utterly indifferent to everything.

Posted by: jwest at March 19, 2013 04:42 PM (u2a4R)

288 Hey I got no idea who Michelle is and whay anyone would care what she said, but what ever happened to freedom of speech? Or is that only for liberals? Or fags?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 19, 2013 04:42 PM (9Bj8R)

289 Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:39 PM (LCRYB)

Well firstly, there's always cognitive dissonance.
But past that, I'm not sure that's what AllenG said.
We're all pretty flawed people working towards God. However I don't exactly run around tell y'all my sins either (but they are a plenty, trust me.)

I hope someday I'll be a good enough person to repent of them, I'm not yet.
I also hope God forgives me for them.

This is not the same as saying "I don't have to repent, God loves me just as I am."

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at March 19, 2013 04:42 PM (ULkyQ)

290 We have a thread about a chick singer and we wind up debating theology instead of boobehs?

***

OK. Katy Perry. Are you happy now?

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 19, 2013 04:43 PM (XUKZU)

291 Meh, just be Catholic. Then you don't have to worry about the sins. At worst you spend more time in Purgatory. And confess often so you get on the HOV lane. The afterlife uses congestion pricing.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 19, 2013 04:43 PM (ZPrif)

292 >>>You might be one, but you are absolutely not the other, if you follow
the very gospel you claim to adhere to like a modern apostle.

We* ALL sin, and are hypocrites. Are we ALL undeserving to call ourselves Christian because we sin?

*(All Christians)

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 04:43 PM (0q2P7)

293 God loves figs?

Well, I would hope so. They're delicious.

Posted by: Emily Litella at March 19, 2013 04:43 PM (MMC8r)

294 And no, if you're going to say "God hates fags," you're a stupid fool, and I'm not going to pay any attention to anything else you have to say.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 19, 2013 04:43 PM (BeSEI)

295 >>>illy Bob at #210, that is exactly what I meant. There seem to be an awful lot of leftist "christians" who claim the title, but never seem to worry about actually following any of gods laws

it seems to be you're putting a lot of stock in the ONE of God's Laws you have no intention whatsoever of breaking.

It's no virtue for a straight man to avoid gay sex. But you're treating it as such.

A straight man would exhibit virtue by refraining from sins he's tempted by, like lusting after hot women.

But we don't talk about that much. That's in the "Trivial Sin That God Doesn't Care About" category.

Meanwhile, the 97% of us who are completely straight and have about as much attraction to a person of the same sex as we do to a dolphin can award ourselves a Gold Star for obeying a law we never had the slightest desire to break.

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:43 PM (LCRYB)

296 How, pray God, did this thread get here?

Divine intervention? Or no one gives a shit about the singer?

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at March 19, 2013 04:43 PM (wR+pz)

297 " When Jesus saved the woman taken in adultery from being executed, he didn't say, "Hey, your life is cool, toots." He said "Go and sin no more."

Good point. I think this story is misread most of the time. The story is more about the Pharisees than the adulterous woman. Jesus came to hit 'em with a 2x4 concerning their sin -- hypocrisy -- which is hidden in the heart.

This is Jesus' constant theme: don't pretend the cup is clean when inside its full of corruption. You got to start over, be born again.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at March 19, 2013 04:43 PM (deaac)

298
I'm still waiting for God, himself, to let me know who speaks for Him.

Posted by: wheatie at March 19, 2013 04:44 PM (rwujx)

299 Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:43 PM (LCRYB)

______________

TROLL!!

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 19, 2013 04:44 PM (HDgX3)

300 >>>We're all pretty flawed people working towards God. However I don't exactly run around tell y'all my sins either (but they are a plenty, trust me.)

I would imagine that none of your own sexual sins is subject to any sort of criminal code or social penalty.

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:44 PM (LCRYB)

301 What about a particularly hot dolphin?

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 19, 2013 04:44 PM (A0sHn)

302 246 -Ok, first of all, if you're going to use the term "great" to describe the output of Mel Gibson, you've already lost me. His movies are silly.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 19, 2013 04:41 PM (BeSEI)

Really? You didn't like Braveheart or The Passion of Christ or Apocalypto or Payback or Ransom?

Posted by: polynikes at March 19, 2013 04:45 PM (m2CN7)

303 God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Thank you.

Posted by: Frank the Infallible at March 19, 2013 04:45 PM (NokrH)

304 "Ok, first of all, if you're going to use the term "great" to describe the output of Mel Gibson, you've already lost me. ""His movies are silly."

Just rewatched "The Patriot" last night. Excellent movie. First rate.

Posted by: jwest at March 19, 2013 04:45 PM (u2a4R)

305 My sins are fine. Ain't nothing in the bible about bukkake.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 19, 2013 04:45 PM (ZPrif)

306 I don't need a god, just a good man.

Posted by: Lt. Hikaru Sulu at March 19, 2013 04:42 PM

We were kind of wondering why you're a deck officer and you send a lot of red shirts down to the laundry deck

Posted by: Ensign Bailey, demoted again at March 19, 2013 04:45 PM (mCvL4)

307 Sorry, Mr. Moo Moo, I just do not get your comment. He doesn't love adultery and you do not have to be homosexual to commit that.

Posted by: Californio at March 19, 2013 04:45 PM (2eIwi)

308 I don't like her very much.

Posted by: Harry Reid, Pederast at March 19, 2013 04:45 PM (+GpbP)

309 "Difficult Question: If her music was previously worthy, has it become unworthy now that she's a homophobe?"

Not difficult at all if'n you think with your gonads.

Posted by: West at March 19, 2013 04:45 PM (1Rgee)

310 Posted by: MaxMBJ at March 19, 2013 04:43 PM (deaac)

Yes indeed.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 04:45 PM (g7q64)

311 296 How, pray God, did this thread get here?
Divine intervention? Or no one gives a shit about the singer?
Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at March 19, 2013 04:43 PM (wR+pz)

Might I suggest the magical Page Down button.
It makes all those annoying scary threads you don't like go away.

Or you could shell out the $4.99 a month for AoSHQ Premium.

Posted by: Mætenloch at March 19, 2013 04:46 PM (pAlYe)

312 219>>> od ihate the "jesus didnt condemn homosexuality" crap that gays use. Jesus specifically came to fulfill and affirm thelaw of god- sadly for the gheys, that also includes the pesky part where god calls it "abomination".

strange that God would be so concerned about a sin committed by 3% of the population and not care so much about similar sins committed by 97%.

You'd think he be more worried about the 97%.

And what of the sins of Pride and Wrath? Are they minor sins now too, which pale compared to the abomination of homosexuality?

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:33 PM (LCRYB)Again ace, Im only commenting on people who claim to be christians, but dont seem to worry that the bible specifically warns against things they do in their lives. I am not a christian. Ive got my own proclivities that are on the "banned by god" list. I just dont claim to be a christian while practicing my proclivities.

Posted by: The Drizzle at March 19, 2013 04:46 PM (ysCLj)

313 Since the Government is spending millions on Why Lesbians are Fat, and Why they are drunks; can a study in How can they be (gasp) Christians, be next?

Posted by: Jean at March 19, 2013 04:46 PM (3f/jH)

314 Sorry, to me this just seems to be a GIGANTIC case of "God understands my own frequent sins, but the sins of other people, THOSE sins, he's got a big problem with."

Yeah, because you're trying to argue on a 2nd grade level.

The whole thing is Complicated. You're trying to describe the relationship of a Created People to their Creator when a) we are those Created People (and you know how weird people can be) and that Creator is also the person who created the universe (which implies a certain level of... sophistication). It doesn't fit into neat pablum.

Read 286 for more, but that's really the short version.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 04:47 PM (xN73L)

315 "Ace: that was an old statement made when she was still apparently ambivalent on the issue."

Oh, yeah, that's right. I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. But I still think that statement shows some self-criticism.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at March 19, 2013 04:47 PM (deaac)

316 I would imagine that none of your own sexual sins is subject to any sort of criminal code or social penalty.
Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:44 PM (LCRYB)

Why is beastiality, pedophilla , necrophilla , etc subject to social and crimimal penalty? Why is polygamy subject to social and criminal penalty?

Posted by: polynikes at March 19, 2013 04:47 PM (m2CN7)

317 self hating homo's?? who knew?

Posted by: dananjcon self hating woploc at March 19, 2013 04:47 PM (jvd3N)

318 300 >>>We're all pretty flawed people working towards God. However I don't exactly run around tell y'all my sins either (but they are a plenty, trust me.)

I would imagine that none of your own sexual sins is subject to any sort of criminal code or social penalty.

----------------------------------------------------------
Well, I live in GA, so the law is a little restrictive...

Posted by: BunkerintheBurbs at March 19, 2013 04:47 PM (X3xYu)

319 I've never heard of her.

Posted by: Not Charlie Gibson, I really never heard of her at March 19, 2013 04:47 PM (/Mla1)

320 I would imagine that none of your own sexual sins is subject to any sort of criminal code or social penalty.

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:44 PM (LCRYB)

Huh what? Who said anything about criminal codes or penalties.I'm of the "have government retreat from Marriage Entirely" camp ace. Also of the "laws cannot replace morality, nor should they try." (Laws can discourage behavior, but this isn't morality, especially in a virtual based sense which I'm inclined to believe.)
And also, yeah you'd probably be wrong anyway. (I am subject to that sin of Rage, which has criminal penalties associated with it.)

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at March 19, 2013 04:47 PM (ULkyQ)

321 Everyone has their own opinion about what God is and that's fine. The Bible does have certain "rules" so to speak about what is and isn't a "sin." No where in the Bible did I read that God "hated" anyone, so I guess that rules out Ms. Shockeds theory...

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna let it burn really.really bummed at March 19, 2013 04:48 PM (9+ccr)

322 It's not what you do, it's what you think.

If you don't think the way "they" want, you are GUILTY of thought-crime.

Example: Believing that some races are more successful than others is evil.
Killing your unborn child is good.

Black is white, evil is good.

Next question.

Posted by: Al at March 19, 2013 04:48 PM (V70Uh)

323 A straight man would exhibit virtue by refraining from sins he's tempted by, like lusting after hot women. But we don't talk about that much. That's in the "Trivial Sin That God Doesn't Care About" category.

Actually, we talk about it quite a bit. A lot more than gay stuff, which was never that big an issue until very recently, when people decided that Gay was a person and not a behavior and started trying to normalize it.
You do realize that even here a bunch of us don't get into the whole "porn as a lifestyle" thing, and tolerate the cussin' and sex stuff because we like other aspects of the site, right?

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 19, 2013 04:48 PM (/ZHx6)

324 God ain't real up on divorce either. Pretty clear on that. Not open to a lot of interpretation.

Posted by: maddogg at March 19, 2013 04:48 PM (OlN4e)

325 @295

I am sorry ace, I have no idea what your posts means.

I don't care who you kiss in your bedroom. I don't know if God does either.

Just saying, who you sleep with is not the most important thing in being a Christian, in my opinion. What God thinks is way over my pay scale to figure out. I am going with what is suppose to be his word. Who knows? The ~~shadow~~ God?

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at March 19, 2013 04:49 PM (wR+pz)

326 You don't go out to a show at Yoshi's (not a cheap joint, by the way...) to be lectured to. End of story. I hate it when I pay for tickets and drinks and dinner with the wife (now I am a couple hundred bucks out) and the attraction feels the need to lecture me about something. I don't care what it is. Unless it makes me laugh, or otherwise feel entertained, shut the fuck up. Sing the song. Play the music. I came here to get away from all that crap.

Posted by: navybrat at March 19, 2013 04:49 PM (3M8g3)

327 Ace, while being straight is not illegal, nor is being homosexual, there are social and legal sanctions for adultery for married people. It is about adultery, not your sexual orientation. And even then, let that one among you who has not sinned...

Posted by: Californio at March 19, 2013 04:49 PM (2eIwi)

328 I think we need to find more celebrities with severe mental illness so we can analyze statements they make under stress. We need more exegesis and more celebrity nutter "texts" to exegesify about.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 19, 2013 04:49 PM (ZPrif)

329 This is my Michelle Shocked Face :>

Posted by: dananjcon self hating woploc at March 19, 2013 04:49 PM (jvd3N)

330 "No where in the Bible did I read that God "hated" anyone, so I guess that rules out Ms. Shockeds theory... "

Romans 9:13 (quoting the Old Testament): "Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

Posted by: MaxMBJ at March 19, 2013 04:50 PM (deaac)

331
So is there video of her with a hot body and few clothes? I'll have to review that first.

Otherwise, she's a woman without conviction,
she's a woman who doesn't know
How to sell a contradiction.
You come and go, you come and go.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 19, 2013 04:50 PM (IY7Ir)

332 In the article it said this Michelle person said she is a sinner because she fornicates. Does anyone know if she gives a great BJ?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 19, 2013 04:50 PM (9Bj8R)

333 Clearly, The Lord harshes people's mellow. What will all the rules and judgements and stuff.

Posted by: toby928© sips the sweet tea of despair at March 19, 2013 04:50 PM (QupBk)

334 Might I suggest a thread on a topic less controversial, Mr Ace Of Spades? Something like evolution, perhaps?

Posted by: Charles de Bike Seat at March 19, 2013 04:50 PM (feFL6)

335 Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:33 PM (LCRYB)

God is concerned about all sin equally. Only one is unforgivable and that is the rejection of the Holy Spirit once it is known to you.

Posted by: polynikes at March 19, 2013 04:50 PM (m2CN7)

336 Because heterosexual desires are somewhat normal, and gayness proof that God made a mistake? Or a natural population control impulse?

There are no gay animals despite what the Germans say.

Posted by: No Poofters at March 19, 2013 04:50 PM (ic+2p)

337
I'm pretty sure that Jesus said he hated Hypocrites. He also mentioned something about good advice for child molesters would be to wrap a chain around themselves and throw themselves into the sea.
So, yeah...

I think I'm going to cut Ms. Shocked some slack on her "God hates..." comment, and guess that her approach was meant as a counter to the usual "God loves me gay!" comments that one hears from plenty of people who swing that way.

Posted by: junior at March 19, 2013 04:51 PM (UWFpX)

338 @295

Is God really on the point system though? Maybe the sin is not believing you're wrong. If I lust after a woman (which admittedly happens often and moreso when Kate Upton dances) I at some level know I'm wrong.
If you're gay, do you believe that? I don't think so. Therefore you can't ever repent.
Contra that though, I never recall a conscious decision to be strait, and likewise I don't think homosexuals do either. If it is indeed inherit to a person's charachteristics, its hard to think it would be considered a sin. But, unlike when I socked him above, I am not God, nor do I have an intimate understanding of the almighty.

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 19, 2013 04:51 PM (t06LC)

339 Romans 9:13 (quoting the Old Testament): "Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

Whoa there! Pretty soon we'll be having a debate over predestination too!

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 19, 2013 04:51 PM (/ZHx6)

340 302 -

There's some distance between "great" and "didn't like."

Some of his movies are ok.

Braveheart is silly, silly Gibsonesque hatred of all that is English. I tried watching it a second time not too long ago. I got bored.

"Passion" is bloody Jesus pron.

The others, I either didn't see or don't quite remember.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 19, 2013 04:52 PM (BeSEI)

341
Ace is using his pole vault, jumping to conclusions.

9.9 on the last leap, btw

Posted by: soothsayer, of the Righteous & Harmonious Fists at March 19, 2013 04:52 PM (052zE)

342 Like, no one commits the mortal sin of Lust when he looks at porn and jacks off.

That's why I really, really hope I get a 4 month heads up before I croak.

I mean really.

I probably used up those Last Rights (twice) I got some time ago.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at March 19, 2013 04:52 PM (Nf7bh)

343 I believe in God, but I don't presume to think I can read his mind

Posted by: kbdabear at March 19, 2013 04:52 PM (mCvL4)

344 You'd think with all the shit happening in the universe, god wouldn't be so concerned if two guys want to kiss.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 19, 2013 04:52 PM (HDgX3)

345 147% of people aged 8 to 80 favor gay marriage 147-0. My friend's uncle's gay hairdresser's Facebook friends say so!

Posted by: Dr. Doo Doo at March 19, 2013 04:52 PM (MMC8r)

346 the Devil made her do it.

Posted by: Flip Wilson at March 19, 2013 04:52 PM (eqV3Q)

347 God probably does not actually have a long flowing beard.

Posted by: toby928© sips the sweet tea of despair at March 19, 2013 04:53 PM (QupBk)

348 Might I suggest a thread on a topic less controversial, Mr Ace Of Spades? Something like evolution, perhaps?

Crossbows v. Longbows.
9mm v..45acp.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 19, 2013 04:53 PM (GFM2b)

349 344
You'd think with all the shit happening in the universe, god wouldn't be so concerned if two guys want to kiss.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 19, 2013 04:52 PM

Okay, let's put it this way ...

God loves you. Jesus loves you

The rest of us here think you're a giant douchebag

Posted by: kbdabear at March 19, 2013 04:53 PM (mCvL4)

350 339
Romans 9:13 (quoting the Old Testament): "Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

Whoa there! Pretty soon we'll be having a debate over predestination too!

The Old Testament? Isn't that that Jew book?

Ducks for cover and runs...

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna let it burn really.really bummed at March 19, 2013 04:53 PM (9+ccr)

351 "You do realize that even here a bunch of us don't get into the whole "porn as a lifestyle" thing, and tolerate the cussin' and sex stuff because we like other aspects of the site, right?"

I realized it. :^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 04:53 PM (g7q64)

352 343
I believe in God, but I don't presume to think I can read his mind

Posted by: kbdabear

God just told me he hates you.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 19, 2013 04:53 PM (AWl8t)

353 <i>#356: There are no gay animals despite what the Germans say.</i>

Bonobos, as closely related to us as chimps, use straight and gay sex dozens of times a day as a social bonding agent and to ease disputes.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 19, 2013 04:53 PM (A0sHn)

354 @335
God is concerned about all sin equally. Only one is unforgivable and that is the rejection of the Holy Spirit once it is known to you.

WELL PUT!

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at March 19, 2013 04:53 PM (wR+pz)

355 >>>>Why does God care about sex or what you eat?

>>>>I really want to know. I just don't get it.

As far as sex read humanae vitae by Pope Paul the VI it stands as the difinitive theological work on the topic. As far as "what you eat" those rules came with no explanation until someone asked the Son of God about them and he said 'Never mind those rules' and bacon and black pudding went back on the menu and everyone was sooo happy they forgot to follow up with 'Well why were they verboten to begin with?'. We only have some guesses as to why those rules were part of the initial revelation of the law.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 04:54 PM (0q2P7)

356 Grey Fox,

So you're saying you don't sin?

Don't imply it; be a man and say it.

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:54 PM (LCRYB)

357 Explain to me why lusting after a woman is sinful? Exactly how are you supposed to "go forth and multiply" without first lusting after a woman.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 19, 2013 04:54 PM (HDgX3)

358 Ever heard of the Atlanta Genital Institute?
Posted by: Johnny Dangerously
***

Heard of it? I practically live there!

Posted by: Barney Frank at March 19, 2013 04:54 PM (uhftQ)

359 "No where in the Bible did I read that God "hated" anyone, so I guess that rules out Ms. Shockeds theory... "

Well, according to the "Bible" series on History Channel, God sure enjoys blood, beheadings and lots of killing for someone who doesn't hate.

We're only 3 episodes in, but his job so far seems to be to bring a lot of death and misery.

Posted by: jwest at March 19, 2013 04:54 PM (u2a4R)

360 The others, I either didn't see or don't quite remember.

At least watch Payback, or Ransom.

Posted by: toby928© sips the sweet tea of despair at March 19, 2013 04:54 PM (QupBk)

361
I believe in God, but I don't presume to think I can read his mind

Posted by: kbdabear

I can.

Posted by: Mrs. God at March 19, 2013 04:54 PM (MMC8r)

362
Posted by: kbdabear at March 19, 2013 04:53 PM (mCvL4)

Heh. bless his heart.....

Posted by: maddogg at March 19, 2013 04:54 PM (OlN4e)

363 >And what of the sins of Pride and Wrath? Are they minor sins now too, which pale compared to the abomination of homosexuality?
<

Ace, You really need to read St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa, Prima Secundæ Partis on Vice and Sin.

You've admitted not being religious. But beyond a matter of faith the logic and philosophy is very convincing IMVHO.

Posted by: Marcus at March 19, 2013 04:55 PM (GGCsk)

364 There are no gay animals despite what the Germans say.

Posted by: No Poofters at March 19, 2013 04:50 PM

Sheep lie

Posted by: Hans Gruber at March 19, 2013 04:55 PM (mCvL4)

365 Crossbows v. Longbows.
9mm v..45acp.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 19, 2013 04:53 PM (GFM2b)

Speaking of that, my son looked up my dad's 45 from WWII by the serial number. Made in 1918.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at March 19, 2013 04:55 PM (wR+pz)

366 Like, no one commits the mortal sin of Lust when he looks at porn and jacks off.

Actually, if you want to hear about that one, ace, you need to sit in a church building sometime.

We talk about that one a lot.

The point, as someone else said above, is no one is going around trying tell us that we have to endorse with full government approval when a couple shacks up, or when a dude steps out on his wife.

So, yeah, in the realm of public debate, the Gay thing comes up more. It's the one that's in the public eye more.

In the 19-teens and 1920s, it was the drunkenness thing. It's what's being talked about outside of Church, so when you ask a Christian his (or her) opinion on it, they're going to give it to you.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 04:55 PM (xN73L)

367 Kissing guys doesn't anger God much. It's when they want to adopt a child and force Catholic Charities to facilitate it that steams Him up.

Posted by: Al at March 19, 2013 04:55 PM (V70Uh)

368 Two guys kissing probably makes God nauseous like it would any normal American.

Posted by: No Poofters at March 19, 2013 04:55 PM (ic+2p)

369
How's that saying go: Boobs are proof God wants Me to be Happy.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 19, 2013 04:55 PM (IY7Ir)

370 God loves you. Jesus loves you

The rest of us here think you're a giant douchebag

+100

Posted by: toby928© sips the sweet tea of despair at March 19, 2013 04:56 PM (QupBk)

371
She's playing in front of an audience many of them gay and she insults them? Sounds mental.

Posted by: Ghostly Aspiration at March 19, 2013 04:56 PM (PP8La)

372 Can't we all agree the worst religion is atheism?

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 19, 2013 04:56 PM (AWl8t)

373 371

She's playing in front of an audience many of them gay and she insults them? Sounds mental.

Posted by: Ghostly Aspiration at March 19, 2013 04:56 PM (PP8La)

It must have been a free concert...

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna let it burn really.really bummed at March 19, 2013 04:56 PM (9+ccr)

374 I can.

Posted by: Mrs. God at March 19, 2013 04:54 PM (MMC8r)

Oh, shit. God got married?

This is not going to go well with my crew.

Posted by: Da Pope at March 19, 2013 04:56 PM (wR+pz)

375
Im,ma just go back to my first comment of the day:

"Why don't we just start arming the apes?"

Posted by: Bigby's Orthotic Elbow at March 19, 2013 04:57 PM (3ZtZW)

376 Isn't it possible that People -- fallible people -- might just be reading the Bible such that sins that they don't commit/aren't tempted to commit, such as gay sex, become the Big Bad, whereas the sins they DO commit and ARE tempted to commit -- heterosexual lust, extramarital affairs, premarital sex, non-procreative sex, heterosexual sodomy -- are, conveniently enough, classified as Minor Sins that God isn't too worried about? Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 04:30 PM (LCRYB)

-----------------------------------------------

Another human trait. Rationalization. For myself, it's gotten me in more trouble than I care to think.

There really is a such thing as right and wrong. Doing the wrong things will make one's life miserable one way or the other. And that's something that we forget about the scriptures. It's not about just getting into heaven after we die. It's also God's wish that we live happy, joyous, and free in our earthly lives.

Doing the right thing assures us of that.

Posted by: Soona at March 19, 2013 04:57 PM (qGNaM)

377 368
Two guys kissing probably makes God nauseous like it would any normal American.

Posted by: No Poofters at March 19, 2013 04:55 PM (ic+2p)

_________________
Any normal bigoted American, sure.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 19, 2013 04:57 PM (HDgX3)

378 Thank what's his name there's a new thread !!!!

Posted by: kbdabear at March 19, 2013 04:57 PM (mCvL4)

379 372Can't we all agree the worst religion is atheism?
Posted by: Dr Spank at March 19, 2013 04:56 PM (AWl8t)Actually, I think leftism is worse.

Posted by: maddogg at March 19, 2013 04:57 PM (OlN4e)

380 360 -

One is where somebody killed his kid, and the other is where he rescues somebody who got kidnapped?

I think I saw the one where the person lived.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 19, 2013 04:58 PM (BeSEI)

381
Didn't she have some video in the early 90s where she would hop on one foot across the stage with her guitar, ala, Chuck Berry style?

Posted by: Ghostly Aspiration at March 19, 2013 04:58 PM (PP8La)

382 If it is indeed inherit to a person's charachteristics, its hard to think it would be considered a sin.

Falling short of divine perfection is falling short of divine perfection, and everyone is inclined towards sin, some types more than others. Doesn't change the fact that we are wrong to do so.
"Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." Psalm 51:5

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 19, 2013 04:58 PM (/ZHx6)

383 You'd think with all the shit happening in the universe, god wouldn't be so concerned if two guys want to kiss.

Omnipresent / Omniscient / Omnipresent.

As for the whole "food" thing: most of the foods deemed "unclean" carry parasites that are Bad For You. There's a pretty solid line of thought that says "God gave that law to keep people healthy-ish."

And, as someone pointed out, he nullified that one later.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 04:59 PM (xN73L)

384 There was recently a good documentary about Carter--the title of which escapes me at the moment. He was more extreme than than even George Wallace on race, having provoked violence in oneTennessee town earlier in his career.

He also wrote "The Outlaw Josey Wales."

Posted by: Steve the Pirate at March 19, 2013 04:59 PM (qevSe)

385 All sin is sin, but some sins are considered worse than others.

where does the Bible say that? Isn't that a man-made addition?

Jesus taught that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is a sin worse than others.

Mark 3:28-29 American Standard Version (ASV)
28 Verily I say unto you, All their sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and their blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin:

Posted by: bonhomme at March 19, 2013 04:59 PM (l7etS)

386 No god thread is complete without the Onion's Various Deities Still Sorting Through Victims Of Tragic Queens Bus Accident http://is.gd/xyGTVj

Disregard if you have read it already from my many links.

Posted by: toby928© sips the sweet tea of despair at March 19, 2013 04:59 PM (QupBk)

387 372 Can't we all agree the worst religion is atheism?
Posted by: Dr Spank at March 19, 2013 04:56 PM (AWl8t)

There is always environmentalism or leftism in general.

I wonder what a venn diagram of those looks like. Oh yeah, a circle.

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 19, 2013 04:59 PM (t06LC)

388 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo

Nobody wants to see 2 dudes kiss, it's science.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 19, 2013 04:59 PM (AWl8t)

389 Can't we all agree the worst religion is atheism?

To their credit, atheists've always held out their belief-system as a philosophical îmân, not a dîn.

I mean, there's no hajj to the Galapagos in atheism

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at March 19, 2013 05:00 PM (QTHTd)

390 >>>he point, as someone else said above, is no one is going around trying tell us that we have to endorse with full government approval when a couple shacks up, or when a dude steps out on his wife.

I have no idea what this means. You put a lot of stock in "government approval." The government permits you to do a lot of things -- like have odious thoughts about Kate Upton and even cheat on your wife -- that it does not "endorse."

Government is not daddy. It is a corporation. It does not (or should not) be seen as a validator of moral choices apart from the minimum necessary.

I do not believe that a hotel chain endorses God when I find a Gideon Bible in a drawer; I do not believe it endorses dirty movies when I see them on the TV Options. I believe the hotel chain is simply attempting to accommodate the greatest number of people and permit they themselves to exercise their own liberty and their own conscience.

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 05:00 PM (LCRYB)

391 Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 04:54 PM (0q2P7)

kosher laws put in their proper temporal context actually turned out to be remarkable science as well.
(Early jewish law also contains proscriptions against circumcision that reveal a sort of rudimentary understanding of how Hemophilia was passed if memory serves.)

So I think this is a melding of religion and health. Which are related.

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at March 19, 2013 05:00 PM (ULkyQ)

392 343 I believe in God, but I don't presume to think I can read his mind

Posted by: kbdabear at March 19, 2013 04:52 PM (mCvL4)

--------

God says...you should give me all your money.

Posted by: wheatie at March 19, 2013 05:00 PM (rwujx)

393 Speaking of that, my son looked up my dad's 45 from WWII by the serial number. Made in 1918.

Nice. No beaver tail safety. Straight slab sided Colt.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 19, 2013 05:00 PM (GFM2b)

394 >>>A straight man would exhibit virtue by refraining from sins he's tempted by, like lusting after hot women. But we don't talk about that much. That's in the "Trivial Sin That God Doesn't Care About" category.

Just to add to the chorus here, that's not a trivial sin at all, and God does care a lot about that. My church's teaching as well as a lot of others.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at March 19, 2013 05:01 PM (csi6Y)

395
@371
She's playing in front of an audience many of them gay and she insults them? Sounds mental.
---------------------------
Not really. If she were given the change to play in front of a group of Republicans, I'm sure that she'd make some liberal statement halfway through it. This just appears to be her following her beliefs.
The thing is, though, that we're so used to seeing it only used AGAINST CONSERVATIVES that the moment it happens to a bunch of liberals everyone thinks that she must be messed up in the head. The fact that she isn't a by the book liberal (and I explained why that makes perfect sense in my first post in this thread) just makes peopleget even crazier about it. After all, it's only the textbook libs that are supposed to do stuff like this.

Posted by: junior at March 19, 2013 05:01 PM (UWFpX)

396 why were they verboten to begin with?'. We only have some guesses as to why those rules were part of the initial revelation of the law.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 04:54 PM (0q2P7)

Yes Jesus pretty much said those were man made rules. Some of the food rules probably originated for health reasons.

I also like the vision by Peter where God told Peter to eat all of these forbidden animals and Peter was like, but God they're forbidden and God said, For mysake boy, I just said they were okay to eat.

Posted by: polynikes at March 19, 2013 05:01 PM (m2CN7)

397 Marc Ambrister (or whatever the hell his name is) at the Atlantic says Rush is right, the Repubs bend over backwards to accommodate gay marriage and what do they gain: not one Democrat vote. What do they lose? A whole bunch of angry white guys. 'Bout time someone cared about the AWG vote.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at March 19, 2013 05:02 PM (deaac)

398

God is not Santa Claus.

He's not sitting there tabulating and scoring our sins.

God judges you on your relationship with Him. Sin just happens to be what separates us from God. God says don't do that shit; stay close to Me.

Posted by: soothsayer, of the Righteous & Harmonious Fists at March 19, 2013 05:02 PM (yhYn1)

399 Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 05:00 PM (LCRYB)

This is mostly why I just want government out of the marriage game. Handle what needs to be handled in contract law.

I once commented that I didn't give a rats ass if the government recognized my marriage to my wife. They don't see it as I do anyway (perpetual) so...meh.

But to AllenG's point, a chunk of the gay marriage movement clearly wants approval as much as they want legal status. Whatever on the later, but you can't force me on the former.

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at March 19, 2013 05:03 PM (ULkyQ)

400 >>>Just to add to the chorus here, that's not a trivial sin at all, and God does care a lot about that. My church's teaching as well as a lot of others.

we don't see a campaign to get political action on it, nor do we see any claims that by NOT announcing an official position on it the government is "endorsing" such behavior.

In such cases we tend to accept (conveniently enough, and prudently enough) that the government's primary duty in the cultivation of morals is to permit free citizens to make their own moral choices.

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 05:03 PM (LCRYB)

401 God says...you should give me all your money.

Posted by: wheatie at March 19, 2013 05:00 PM (rwujx)
No God only wants 10%. Our lord and master Obama wants it all.

Posted by: Iblis at March 19, 2013 05:03 PM (9221z)

402 @386

Great stuff. You know the Q45 bus is famous because it goes to LGA.

If you are ever in the city and the roads are shut down, take the 7 subway from Grand Central and get off at Jackson Hgts. Take the Q45 to LGA. Doesn't cost shit and guaranteed to beat a cab on a Friday afternoon.

Ace listen up here, this is shit you can use.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 19, 2013 05:03 PM (wR+pz)

403 So you're saying you don't sin? Don't imply it; be a man and say it

Of course I sin. I sin all the time. What does that have to do with anything? Do you propose that I shrug my shoulders at rape, murder, and theft too?

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 19, 2013 05:04 PM (/ZHx6)

404 >>>Explain to me why lusting after a woman is sinful? Exactly how are you
supposed to "go forth and multiply" without first lusting after a woman.

Get married, then you are free to lust after your wife.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 05:04 PM (0q2P7)

405 Oh Christ, I didn't even realize we'd started ANOTHER homosex thread. And I was still pounding away at DiogenesLamp in the first one.

Posted by: Jeff B. at March 19, 2013 05:04 PM (bcLhD)

406 God is not Santa Claus.

He's not sitting there tabulating and scoring our sins.

God judges you on your relationship with Him. Sin just happens to be what separates us from God. God says don't do that shit; stay close to Me.

I like that. Thanks

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 05:05 PM (g7q64)

407 Hey ace, you want to read something funny? Go check out DiogenesLamp in Gabriel Malor's earlier thread.

Posted by: Jeff B. at March 19, 2013 05:05 PM (bcLhD)

408 Judas Priest's Screaming for Vengeance remains one of my all-time favorite albums.

This was true before I really knew what "gay" was (when I first heard this album in around 1981, I was 11).

This was true when I really knew what gay was (a few years later).

This remained true when Rob Halford, their lead singer, officially "came out of the closet".

It's the music, stooooopid.

Posted by: akula51 at March 19, 2013 05:05 PM (Vgn84)

409 Government is not daddy. It is a corporation. It does not (or should not) be seen as a validator of moral choices apart from the minimum necessary.

Your question (well, the one I was responding to) regarded the preponderance of Christian pontification regarding homosexuality. "Is Lust less of a sin?"

And my answer was "no, but here is why you don't hear it talked about as much."

That is, you have a selection bias- what you know that Christians talk about is only what is in the public realm. Since the public realm seems to be fixated on making us acknowledge homosexual marriage, you're going to hear a lot about homosexual marriage.

That, however, is not actually the preponderance of what we discuss. In an actual Bible class, we're more likely to discuss things like hypocrisy, and making sure we're right with God (or, as right as we can be) before we go telling others that they aren't. We're more likely to discuss normal, guy/gal fornication and lust. We're more likely to discuss lying, or theft, or blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

In Church, homosexuality rarely comes up at all (unless a specific congregation has something going on- but exceptions are, by definition, exceptional).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 05:05 PM (xN73L)

410 >But if we compare the sinful act to the cause of the virtues, then it is possible for some virtues to be destroyed by one sinful act. For every mortal sin is contrary to charity, which is the root of all the infused virtues, as virtues; and consequently, charity being banished by one act of mortal sin, it follows that all the infused virtues are expelled "as virtues." And I say on account of faith and hope, whose habits remain unquickened after mortal sin, so that they are no longer virtues. On the other hand, since venial sin is neither contrary to charity, nor banishes it, as a consequence, neither does it expel the other virtues. As to the acquired virtues, they are not destroyed by one act of any kind of sin.

.<

Posted by: Marcus at March 19, 2013 05:06 PM (GGCsk)

411 >>In such cases we tend to accept (conveniently enough, and prudently enough) that the government's primary duty in the cultivation of morals is to permit free citizens to make their own moral choices.

No, I agree absolutely with you vis-a-vis the role of government. I'm just saying that a lot of denominations don't take the "jacking off to porn" thing as "ah, who cares."

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at March 19, 2013 05:07 PM (csi6Y)

412 >>>Ace listen up here, this is shit you can use.

I'll keep it in mind. Though when I'm traveling, which I hate, I'm always in the mind to indulge myself.

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 05:07 PM (LCRYB)

413 ANOTHER homosex thread. And I was still pounding away at DiogenesLamp

ISWYDT. I think I'll get most of the keyboard marks out of my forehead. Lol.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 19, 2013 05:07 PM (/kI1Q)

414 My belief also is that it is only a sin if you believe it to be a sin though you should not lead your brother down a bad road by tempting him with your actions that he believes to be a sin though you do not.

That is how you can have differences in the interpretations of the bible between Christians.

Posted by: polynikes at March 19, 2013 05:07 PM (m2CN7)

415 A leftist guy on my brothers facebook page was making a big deal about his missionary work, his church choir practice, and his charity work-all the while droning on about how hateful and bigoted conservatives are. He then regaled his friends with stories about life with his "husband", and how god fully supported his gay relationship and the mean evil conservatives were misrepresenting how god truly felt about gay marriage. THAT is what I am sick of. People like that guy either are fucking stupid and dont understand what they read in the bible, or( and this is what I think) they willfully flaunt the very bible they profess to adhere to for pure political gain and as an act of theater to make them seem beyond reproach. Cant have it both ways, if you claim to be a rock-ribbed christian.

Posted by: The Drizzle at March 19, 2013 05:08 PM (ysCLj)

416 I don't get this debate. How hard is it to not suck cock?

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 19, 2013 05:09 PM (AWl8t)

417 Her performances are being canceled right and left. How is she going to make a living if no one will book her or buy her music? So, yeah, she's mental.

Posted by: Ghostly Aspiration at March 19, 2013 05:10 PM (PP8La)

418 >>>hat is, you have a selection bias- what you know that Christians talk about is only what is in the public realm. Since the public realm seems to be fixated on making us acknowledge homosexual marriage, you're going to hear a lot about homosexual marriage.

but we don't just hear about homosexual marriage, we hear about homosexuality period.

I see a lot of claims in these threads that God has, basically, a a special place in hell for gays. That it's a Special Sin, because those who practice it "can't stop proclaiming it to not be a sin."

People who indulge in heterosexual sins don't have to proclaim anything -- we can either sin, or not sin, to our heart's desire, without worrying about employment discrimination and such.*

* The only exception is some sort of notorious extramarital affair, which might get you some social penalty in a town in which people are bothered by it... but not two towns over.

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 05:10 PM (LCRYB)

419 50 She was cute when I met her in 1994.

Posted by: Truman North and his shiny new website at March 19, 2013 04:07 PM (jEKcn)

^^This. Well, sometime in the mid-90s.

Shit, I was practically hitting on her. I didn't know she was a lesbian. Oh well.

Posted by: rickl at March 19, 2013 05:11 PM (zoehZ)

420
And I don't believe her Church teaches people that God Hates Fats, either.

Posted by: Ghostly Aspiration at March 19, 2013 05:11 PM (PP8La)

421 Ace, you are making the mistake of thinking that sin separates you from God entirely and those who engage in sin are hypocritical, which they are to a certain degree. But as a matter of faith, God abhors sin because it separates you from him, You must separate the sin from the sinner and the heart of the man. There is ultimately forgiveness if you accept God as a matter of free will and if you use that free will to serve his purposes. It's really a much deeper philosophical matter that a blog dies not do any justice.

Posted by: Marcus at March 19, 2013 05:12 PM (GGCsk)

422 What are the odds she was saying this sarcastically? You know, trying to play the role of a "Bible Thumping Christian?"

Taking a swing at religion by pretending you're on the extreme end of it?

Posted by: Rich at March 19, 2013 05:12 PM (arczc)

423 >>>I see a lot of claims in these threads that God has, basically, a a special place in hell for gays. That it's a Special Sin, because those who practice it "can't stop proclaiming it to not be a sin."

The people who hold those beliefs are in the wrong. Sin is sin.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at March 19, 2013 05:12 PM (csi6Y)

424 I see a lot of claims in these threads that God has, basically, a a special place in hell for gays. That it's a Special Sin, because those who practice it "can't stop proclaiming it to not be a sin."

NO! God has a special place in hell for bloggers.

Posted by: Ghostly Aspiration at March 19, 2013 05:12 PM (PP8La)

425 While it is true that Jesus died for sinners, and it is true that all humans have sinned and will sin, that is not the whole story. The free gift of eternal life spoken of in John 3:16 is conditional upon the willingness to obey God. One of the disqualifying behaviors is sexual immorality. See Revelation 22:15.

Posted by: theBuckWheat at March 19, 2013 05:12 PM (nmcha)

426 Another born that way homosexual cured by the born again blood of the lamb. What is not to love about this. Homosexuals hate when they lose one...it fouls their entire argument.

Posted by: Sidney Allen Johnson at March 19, 2013 05:12 PM (p2Lyl)

427 @412

@412

Me too, but I learned years ago that a car stuck in traffic is a car stuck in traffic. Limo or livery.

That tip was passed on to me by a olde Eastern Airlines VP. It is a pain dragging luggage on a subway and bus. Alternatively, when you get to Jackson Hgts if there is a cab, not much chance, you can take it to LGA. The beauty is the subway gets you out of Manhattan and the Bridge and tunnel bottle necks.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 19, 2013 05:13 PM (wR+pz)

428 I would think that the god-bothered would just do what, sadly, many 'Christians' do, ignore him and his strictures.

Posted by: toby928© sips the sweet tea of despair at March 19, 2013 05:13 PM (QupBk)

429 I see a lot of claims in these threads that God has, basically, a a special place in hell for gays. That it's a Special Sin, because those who practice it "can't stop proclaiming it to not be a sin."

Really? Where?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at March 19, 2013 05:13 PM (GEICT)

430 we don't see a campaign to get political action on it, nor do we see any claims that by NOT announcing an official position on it the government is "endorsing" such behavior.

The Church didn't start this political fight, Ace. Right now, today, Gabe could find a Methodist or other gay-accepting church, take his Partner (assuming he has one- I neither know nor care), and get "married." They can get all the benefits of State-sanctioned marriage by getting a certificate that says they're a Domestic Partnership (btw- with the possible exception of survivors benefits, I can't think of any benefits here: not that can't be gotten separately and should be even if you're married).

The fight was started by others- militant gays, primarily, but also the Left more generally, who have stated that their goal is to force Christians to accept and endorse Gay Marriage.

So, yeah, we're kind of standing up for ourselves here.

That said, you'll find more and more Christians who (like me) still say "Homosexuality is wrong," and then turn around and say, "And the Federal Government should get its nose out of the marriage business."

Heck, even I'm a convert to that one.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 05:14 PM (xN73L)

431 Jesus Saves...

Passes it to Moses...

He Shoots! He Scores!

Posted by: Ed Wood VS Godzilla at March 19, 2013 05:14 PM (FWmTq)

432 I don't get this debate. How hard is it to not suck cock?

Say you're really horny and starting to get lonely. You go to a bar and it's all chicks. Plenty of them are hot. Pretty much all of them are hanging on each other, and quite a few of them think you're cute.

That ^^ is what it's like for a moderately decent looking 20-something guy at a gay bar.

Yes, it's difficult to resist temptation when it's right there.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at March 19, 2013 05:14 PM (QTHTd)

433 Ace, not to speak for others, but I think a lot of us are pissed not because we are picking on homsexuality as a "bigger" sin than other sins, but because the media and the left tells us that homosexuality is the only action that can NEVER be a sin.

Posted by: The Drizzle at March 19, 2013 05:14 PM (ysCLj)

434 I'm pretty sure God is plenty peeved at Judas.

Posted by: Taco Stand at March 19, 2013 05:15 PM (C+qQ0)

435 >>>
No, I agree absolutely with you vis-a-vis the role of government. I'm just saying that a lot of denominations don't take the "jacking off to porn" thing as "ah, who cares."

as a non-Christian, I'll tell you that what outsiders know of Christianity is that Gay Sex Is Bad and other stuff is kind of minor. Because this is what we're always talking about, publicly.

And I think the main message of Christianity, John 3:16, is barely heard. What we hear about is the "rules," and not the main thrust of it, which is that God forgives and Jesus Saves absolutely.

I will tell you the message (as seen from the outside) is not of an evangelical church open to all but to a closed and exclusive club.

Although I understand the desire for fundamentalists to "get back to the basics" and such, I do think they're losing the most basic message, John 3:16, and to be a fisher of men, because they're talking so very much about other things.

Let me put it this way: I don't have to be a Christian or a religious scholar to know the most important part of the Bible is not Leviticus 3:10 (or whatever) but John 3:16. And yet we're relentlessly talking up how important Leviticus 3:10 is.

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 05:15 PM (LCRYB)

436 I bet those straw men burn really good in Hell.

Posted by: zsasz at March 19, 2013 05:15 PM (MMC8r)

437 >>>we don't see a campaign to get political action on it, nor do we see any
claims that by NOT announcing an official position on it the government
is "endorsing" such behavior.

No one is campaigning to make sodomy illegal (although it was at one time). Or say that two homosexuals can't stand before their family and friends and vow to each other and whatever deity(ies) in which they have faith to live together in faithfulness and fidelity. What people are saying is it is a completely improper thing for government to do to license such a marriage.

Issuing a license is a government endorsement. I have a pilot's licesnse, it is a legal government endorsement of my operation of an aircraft within the rules of the FAA.

I have a drivers license. It is a legal government endorsement of my ability to operate an automobile.

I also have a marriage license (I'm not fond of it, but my family likes the idea) it is a government endorsement of my marriage and makes me subject to all sorts of rules.

Marriage is about control. I've said it over and over again. There are better reasons to get rid of government licensed marriage, than to expand government authority into new areas.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 05:15 PM (0q2P7)

438 Why is lust a sin? Because it's about greed and possession. If you think that a woman is hot and it's a normal reaction for a straight man. If you spend hour after hour thinking about how you'd like to possess someone and are a Christian, it's taking you away from focus on God and treating someone as a object with geuine unselfish love Somehow we have this idea that every natural reaction is fine. Well, no. If if you're masturbating for hours to porn when you could be spending time with your wife it's sin and no porn addiction is NOT a victimless crime:

http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-lust.html

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 05:15 PM (g7q64)

439 Ace, You really need to read St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa

From which he might come away with the understanding that vice, an act (or state) that being contrary to "nature" carries fleshly/earthly punishment for its actor (like, say, homosexuality, with its extra diseases and end-of-the-bloodline stuff and ow-my-butthole! and etc.), is not unvirtuous--unless it's sinfully motivated, which it doesn't have to be. Not a lot of dudes take it in the ass out of malice.

But some do.

...OK, maybe a lot.

And maybe more now than in the past, as it increasingly confers social power and the presumption of right.

...Hm.

Posted by: oblig. at March 19, 2013 05:16 PM (cePv8)

440 To be completely fair, Muslims are ever bit as concerned about the straight sex sins as the gay ones (of course, they are certain they don't have the gay problem in their circles, so that helps).

Really, people speak the loudest about the sins they're not tempted to commit (haven't heard too many Muslim condemnations of camel fucking, come to think of it) and that is unlikely to change..I don't care much about which sexual sins are the worst, and certainly in my day to day life I think and hear more about the straight ones, because, duh,those are the ones my congregation needs the most reminding on.

But that's neither here nor there. I don't think the government is endorsing gay sex by allowing the people who do that together to have the same legal arrangement as people who have the straight sex. The government isn't Dad, we don't need to get it to say who he likes best (what, your famiky didn't do that on every other Friday? Weirdos).

Yes, some activist gays will try and get churches to perform their weddings. We should fight against that, though, by itself.

Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 05:16 PM (Fwv1e)

441 I see a lot of claims in these threads that God has, basically, a a special place in hell for gays. That it's a Special Sin, because those who practice it "can't stop proclaiming it to not be a sin."
Now you are just telling falsehoods ace about your readers.

Posted by: polynikes at March 19, 2013 05:17 PM (m2CN7)

442
@419 - Shit, I was practically hitting on her. I didn't know she was a lesbian. Oh well.
------------------------------
She apparently maintains that she isn't/wasn't/etc...
"and she was even identified as lesbian herself for much of her career (falsely, she's repeatedly said)."
http://tinyurl.com/cbvazd8

As I've said repeatedly in this thread, nothing - and I mean nothing - that happened at the concert should be a particular surprise. It all fits with the information in the Yahoo Music article that I linked.

Posted by: junior at March 19, 2013 05:18 PM (UWFpX)

443 @435

Living in NYC exposes you to one side of the narrative. As much as you try, you can not get away from the anti christian NYC and thier fellow travelers .

Wonder why the Times never mentions that Orthodox Jews forbid gheys? Or the "religion of Peace" kills them?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 19, 2013 05:19 PM (wR+pz)

444 as a non-Christian, I'll tell you that what outsiders know of Christianity is that Gay Sex Is Bad and other stuff is kind of minor. Because this is what we're always talking about, publicly.

And I think the main message of Christianity, John 3:16, is barely heard. What we hear about is the "rules," and not the main thrust of it, which is that God forgives and Jesus Saves absolutely.

EXCELLENT POINTS, ACE. The churches need to spend their focus on lifting up Jesus. I talk about gay things here sometime, but I haven't talked about it in church because I really am much more concerned about Christian discipleship. I have gay friends who are excellent pastors and who truly love Jesus.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 05:19 PM (g7q64)

445 but we don't just hear about homosexual marriage, we hear about homosexuality period.

Well... yes, and then again no.

You'll find most of us- even most Christians- saying "You know, if you'd really just keep it in the bedroom, I wouldn't care. But since you're forcing me to have an opinion..."

That said- yes, you do have to worry about committing "heterosexual sins" and it affecting you socially.

If you know someone is an adulterer, you're less likely to date them. If it comes up (for some reason) in a job interview, you're less likely to hire them (they've already proven themselves untrustworthy).

As for "just" lust (lust of the sock and my computer variety, at it were), we care exactly as much about that in others as we'd like to be able to care about homosexuality in others- that is, we don't think about it. If you make me have an opinion on that, I can give you my opinion on that. But many (most?) people keep it all hush-hush and quiet specifically because they believe it to be a sin.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 05:19 PM (xN73L)

446 When my brother and I went to Alaska years ago, he could not stop singing her song about Anchorage.

Posted by: logprof at March 19, 2013 05:20 PM (+iA5G)

447 No one ever answers my question why homosexuality should have a special place of honor regard to other sexual abnormalities.

Posted by: polynikes at March 19, 2013 05:20 PM (m2CN7)

448 441

Eh, I can see how he gets the impression from comments about "if you say you're gay and Christian you may be one but you ain't the other" and don't have a similar "if you say you're into Sasha Grey and Kate Upton's boobs..."

Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 05:20 PM (Fwv1e)

449 >>>Although I understand the desire for fundamentalists to "get back to the basics" and such, I do think they're losing the most basic message, John 3:16, and to be a fisher of men, because they're talking so very much about other things.

Yeah, that's a big problem. Complex, too.

Christianity is about what you "do," walking with Christ, and not about what you "don't." If you "do" then you are empowered to avoid the "don'ts," but yes, the image is weighed too heavily on the "don'ts." The way Christianity is popularly represented is something like trying to cure the symptoms instead of the disease.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at March 19, 2013 05:20 PM (csi6Y)

450 >>>ow you are just telling falsehoods ace about your readers.

it's not falsehoods, I keep hearing how this is the ONE SIN we really need to keep a laser-like focus on.

And then I hear that's because gays, unlike nice heterosexual sinners, proclaim their sins to be not sins at all... whereas nice heterosexual sinners acknowledge their sins and such (and then continue sinning).

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 05:21 PM (LCRYB)

451 Ace needs to start here. Buy it on your site and get 5%

http://tinyurl.com/cjqzs2u

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 19, 2013 05:21 PM (wR+pz)

452 >People like that guy either are fucking stupid and dont understand what they read in the bible, <

No, they are deliberately living in sin against God's will. They are also obfuscating God's word and that of his son Jesus to satisfy and attempting to normalize that sin in this world.

Man doesn't dictate to God. He doesn't set the laws of nature or dictate existential truths.

So a person who purposely lives in homosexuality (or any other sin) and tries to navigate their way into normalizing that sin by trying to convince others that God's word is something other than He stated, is one of the worst types of sinners in that he not only is separating himself from God with his behavior, but is trying to also separate others from God's love and truths. Look up what we call people who try to grow legions of heretics and sinners against God.

Posted by: Marcus at March 19, 2013 05:22 PM (GGCsk)

453 Polynikes, it seems pretty normal to homosexuals. It takes them no effort at all to be gay.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 19, 2013 05:22 PM (A0sHn)

454 "as a non-Christian, I'll tell you that what outsiders know of
Christianity is that Gay Sex Is Bad and other stuff is kind of minor.
Because this is what we're always talking about, publicly."

Then stop always talking about gay sex in public.

"And I think the main message of Christianity, John 3:16, is barely
heard. What we hear about is the "rules," and not the main thrust of
it, which is that God forgives and Jesus Saves absolutely."

Then it doesn't matter if some of these Christians are hypocrites about gays and gay sex. Their sin of hypocrisy is forgiven.

Posted by: Taco Stand at March 19, 2013 05:22 PM (C+qQ0)

455 >>>as a non-Christian, I'll tell you that what outsiders know of
Christianity is that Gay Sex Is Bad and other stuff is kind of minor.
Because this is what we're always talking about, publicly.

Getting in personal time is a mortal sin. So is lusting after a woman not your wife. All right in the same bracket as homosexuality. Though the Catholic Church does have a special status for what they call living in sin, or making a conscious, and continual decision, (not the classic repent confess and relapse that most of us are in) to buck the rules, in which case the church will go put you on the rack, I mean burn you at the stake, ooops, no they excommunicate you! Nope not that either they just deny you communion. So you don't get your wafer or sip of wine at mass and instead the Priest gives you a blessing and prays for you to repent.

Folks who live together prior to being married fall into this category, and as I was one of them, I had to repent, and confess *right before I got married* so that I could be married in a state of grace.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 05:23 PM (0q2P7)

456 @451

Then buy the real book.

http://tinyurl.com/cs7py3r

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 19, 2013 05:24 PM (wR+pz)

457 The Methodist Church official theology is still that the practice of homosexuality is contrary to Scripture. All Churches should welcome everyone in love. There are individual churches who are pretty upfront that they don't agree with the about view of homesuclaity view. The UMC does not allow gay marriages to be performed in their churches nor does it have any liturgy for the blessing of civil unions for gays. Do clergy push the envelope/ Frequently, but that is the official policy.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 05:24 PM (g7q64)

458 The unspoken corollary, of course, is that Liberals do hate gays. Sometimes they just hate other people more.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 04:09 PM (xN73L)

There is a reason that the gay coalition uses a rainbow flag. . . they might be a united front when it comes to voting dem, but peel back that layer and each group in the LGTB acronyms, even within their special snowflake subgoups, has wildly different ideas of what it is to be authentically gay, or part of their subgroup. They snark at each other and tear each other apart, it's just not as visible. Their biggest connection to each other is their hatred of the traditional right, from what I can see; take away that punching bag from them and their unity crumbles. I have no idea if there is a way for conservative libertarians to exploit that but it's worth noticing.

so the biggest sin this Michelle lady is performing is NOT saying she hates gays, it is that she is airing out LGTB issues, which are complex, in front of outsiders. At least, that's my take on it.

Posted by: LizLem at March 19, 2013 05:25 PM (8wqqE)

459 447

Which sexual abnormalities are you comparing it to? It should be different from pedophilia and bestiality for obvious reasons---children and animals can't consent to sex. Other abnormalities would be, what, fetishes with straight partners? We leave those people alone, and don't deny them marriages if they want them, right?

Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 05:25 PM (Fwv1e)

460 When you've lost Michelle Shocked, you've lost...........wait, who?? Meh, my outrage meter broke decades ago.

Posted by: puddleglum at March 19, 2013 05:26 PM (fI05/)

461 "animals can't consent to sex."

Of course they can. They hump all the time. A dog will hump your leg just as soon as hump another dog.

Posted by: Taco Stand at March 19, 2013 05:27 PM (C+qQ0)

462 >>>it's not falsehoods, I keep hearing how this is the ONE SIN we really need to keep a laser-like focus on.

What? No! If the state were considering issuing fapping licenses I would be pretty irate too. If the state were going to issue licenses for Adultery I would be livid. Licenses for per-marital sex? Mad as hell.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 05:27 PM (0q2P7)

463 What I have found "Gay Marriage" to come down to is the redefinition of what marriage means. Militants want to change the meaning of the word for political reasons. All the benefits of legal marriage are available without a marriage certificate. They just want to call it what Ozzie and Harriet would. The whole thing is ridiculous.

Posted by: Californio at March 19, 2013 05:28 PM (2eIwi)

464 I've had any number of gay folks in the churches I served. I didn't throw them out not felt no need to do so. They were wonderful Christians and great servants in the church. Do I still think marriage should be between a man and a woman-yes, but it's not a hill I'm going to die on.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 05:28 PM (g7q64)

465 Actually, God *did* create Adam and Steve, but you know how things work, they didn't leave anybody behind to carry on the memory. So he had to start over.

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 19, 2013 05:28 PM (UFTmf)

466 as a non-Christian, I'll tell you that what outsiders know of Christianity is that Gay Sex Is Bad and other stuff is kind of minor. Because this is what we're always talking about, publicly.

And I've addressed that: twice, now. If you don't want us to talk about it, don't talk about it. But being Christian is a big (it's supposed to be the biggest) part of our lives, so if it comes up, the fact we think it's sinful is going to come up.

And it's been in the news a bit.

That said, you're right that Christians have (largely) failed to carry Christ "and Him crucified" to nonbelievers. It's a problem we fail at a lot.

Part of the problem there is that it's really hard to convince someone they need God's Mercy when they don't believe in sin. So we talk about sin to show you that you're sinful. Until you understand that fact- that I, and you, and everyone else are sinful- you can't accept God's Mercy, let alone His Grace, because you can't repent of your sin.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 05:29 PM (xN73L)

467 Did not Jesus imply to cut off your hand rather than jerk off?

The Boss clearly has some Religious hang ups. The sin/man up stuff for instance.

Pussy and children will take care of most.

Posted by: nip at March 19, 2013 05:29 PM (11Tdq)

468 >>>children and animals can't consent to sex.

"consent" is an arbitrary legal contruct. It has no objective existence. What is or is not "consent" can change at any time.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 05:29 PM (0q2P7)

469 461

If you can be charged with neglect for not feeding a creature, it can't consent.

Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 05:30 PM (Fwv1e)

470 >>>it's not falsehoods, I keep hearing how this is the ONE SIN we really need to keep a laser-like focus on.

And then I hear that's because gays, unlike nice heterosexual
sinners, proclaim their sins to be not sins at all... whereas nice
heterosexual sinners acknowledge their sins and such (and then continue
sinning).

Ace --

When I recommended you check out Gabe Malor's earlier thread today (which turned into a lengthy battle about homosexuality) it wasn't just for shits and giggles. It's because it explains what I think the REAL reason a certain segment of the population (usually conservative Christians, sadly...because I count myself among that group) is absolutely obsessed with homosinuality: because they believe that the gay movement is actually an insidious attempt to undermine our culture and values. As you can see in that thread, there is a legitimate, authentic strain of "gay panic" among some of the people who care the most about this: they see an acceptance of homosexuality as leading inevitably to a world of culturally accepted gay rape and pedophilia, degradation, and societal collapse.

That last bit must make it sound like I'm hysterically over-exaggerating, but...check the thread out. I'm not, and it's a sentiment you will find elsewhere among many conservative Christian enclaves. It's a fear borne of the feeling that they are losing an ongoing cultural war. And they're right about that part, at least.

Posted by: Jeff B. at March 19, 2013 05:30 PM (bcLhD)

471 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 05:29 PM (xN73L)

Well said. nft

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 05:30 PM (g7q64)

472 "Do I still think marriage should be between a man and a woman-yes, but it's not a hill I'm going to die on."

As someone serving a church, what hill would you be willing to die on?

Posted by: Taco Stand at March 19, 2013 05:30 PM (C+qQ0)

473
@458 -
so the biggest sin this Michelle lady is performing is NOT saying she hates gays, it is that she is airing out LGTB issues, which are complex, in front of outsiders. At least, that's my take on it.
-----------------------------------------------
Not really. It's more of a liberalism in general thing. The blacks in general tend to be fairly conservative when the topic of LGTB comes up, and Ms. Shocked found her faith via a black Christian church. There's some suspicion here in California that the Proposition 8 vote (recognizing marriage as between a man and a woman), which was a fairly close thing, only turned in favor of the proposition because of the increased black turnout due to Obama running for president. Or in other words, it's entirely possible that California re-banned SSM because Obama was running for president.

Posted by: junior at March 19, 2013 05:31 PM (UWFpX)

474 >And I think the main message of Christianity, John 3:16, is barely
heard. What we hear about is the "rules," and not the main thrust of
it, which is that God forgives and Jesus Saves absolutely.

I will tell you the message (as seen from the outside) is not of an
evangelical church open to all but to a closed and exclusive club.
<

Because that is the message perpetrated by detractors of Christianity in popular culture and the press.

Think about where you got that image from or how you came about it. Think about the people and what they were trying to express. Their personal feelings, most importantly- why they are not religious.

If you are looking for reasons to be outside Christianity, the excuses are plentiful and predictable (as are the attacks). I frankly find it a very philosophically unchallenging debate. I've read plenty of Augustine and Aquinas. And these arguments are as old as the Christian religion.

Nobody can compel someone to believe in matters of faith. It has to come from your heat.

Posted by: Marcus at March 19, 2013 05:31 PM (GGCsk)

475 >>>If you can be charged with neglect for not feeding a creature, it can't consent.

So all the horses cows and whatnot that find their own food? Wild animals?

Consent is an arbitrary legal construct whose meaning can change at any time.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 05:33 PM (0q2P7)

476 Polynikes, it seems pretty normal to homosexuals. It takes them no effort at all to be gay.
Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 19, 2013 05:22 PM (A0sHn)

You do know the definition of abnormal right? Sure you do.

Which sexual abnormalities are you comparing it to? It should be different from pedophilia and bestiality for obvious reasons---children and animals can't consent to sex. Other abnormalities would be, what, fetishes with straight partners? We leave those people alone, and don't deny them marriages if they want them, right?
Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 05:25 PM (Fwv1e)

Why can't a 16 year old consent to sex. Because a man made law based on 'morality' says so? What rights do animals have over man and when have humans been required to get an animals right to consent to anything. Oh Mr. Deer can I have your permission to kill and eat you? Necrophilla is illegal and looked down upon while I'm being told that I'm a bigot because I don't want to accept the acts of homosexuality. What makes homosexual acts better than necrophilla acts?

Posted by: polynikes at March 19, 2013 05:33 PM (m2CN7)

477 "If you can be charged with neglect for not feeding a creature, it can't consent."

So wild and feral animals can consent, but domestic animals can't?
Good to know. Sex with wild animals is OK then.

Posted by: Taco Stand at March 19, 2013 05:33 PM (C+qQ0)

478 Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 05:25 PM (Fwv1e)

Not if you hold the view that homosexuality, in many cases, is a sexualized varient of narcissistic personality disorder...as some still do.

A lot of this all just comes down to the killing of "polite fiction" in society. The victorian model of public repression and private debaucher has much going for it...

Posted by: Phil at March 19, 2013 05:34 PM (QzdcC)

479 >>> If the state were considering issuing fapping licenses I would be pretty irate too.

I'm going to say something very liberal here. It's also true:

Heterosexuals don't need special licenses from the state because, being the 97% majority, we are the state, and we've created rules to let us live our lives without government hectoring about and official penalties for sexual matters.

You're essentially saying that as a member of the 97% majority, the state state doesn't impose too many burdens on you.

This is not a coincidence. It didn't just "work out this way."

BTW, I'm not arguing for gay marriage. I am only arguing in favor getting over this idea that we need special government laws to "encourage homosexuality" and that we need to fear the 'normalization" of something that is so terribly infrequent (around 3%).

I am saying that at the end of the day I do wish gays weren't subject to so much snickering and jeering.

And yes they were born that way. One doesn't cultivate a desire for gay sex. It's not like smoking. One either has a same-sex attraction or one doesn't. Sure, someone attracted to the same sex CAN lead a monastic life of celibacy, or force himself to have sex with the opposite sex (thus guaranteeing the misery of one homosexual and one heterosexual), but the actual attraction is inborn.

All this heavy lifting to tell people Who Already Know They're Different and Weird that they're Different and Weird feels an awful lot like the bullying of the normal kids for the weird and different kids.

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 05:34 PM (LCRYB)

480 468

The hell? Consent is pretty fucking clear, and, no, children are not capable of it; neither are unconscious people.

Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 05:34 PM (Fwv1e)

481 Phelps was always a Democrat. Why is that a surprise?

Because Propaganda.

They Lie About Everything.

Also, I am not *even* reading comments on a post like this after the double-barreled prugestorm earlier.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 19, 2013 05:35 PM (bxiXv)

482 Marcus is right. People outside of Christian churches are taught that the Christian God is a "punishing" God and that the religion is a long list of you can'ts. They do not know the point is love, forgiveness and redemption.

Posted by: Californio at March 19, 2013 05:36 PM (2eIwi)

483 Here's the hill Im willing to die on in the largest sense-the same sort of hill that Jesus died on. I believe Jesus is Lord. If I have give up my faith and reject the Lord who saved me because of religious persecution, I hope I would have the courage to go to the modern equivalent of a cross.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 05:36 PM (g7q64)

484 You bet I love Jesus. He can fish for me anytime!

Posted by: Gay Pastor at March 19, 2013 05:37 PM (fCw1i)

485 Other abnormalities would be, what, fetishes with straight partners? Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 05:25 PM (Fwv1e)

I've been wondering about that, Jenny. Let's say for argument's sake that my girlfriend takes little Bandersnatch in her mouth or up the poop chute. Is that non-sinful because she's a girl and I'm a boy? It's the same acts as gay sex, we just have one more option.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 19, 2013 05:37 PM (A0sHn)

486 Consent exists. The only thing that pissing in the wind about "why can't a 16 year old consent" will accomplish is an air of creepiness.

We know why kids are considered un-consent-able.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at March 19, 2013 05:38 PM (csi6Y)

487 I think most men have some kind of limit switch built into their minds which gives them a little electrical shock in their brains whenever they think about doing it with another man. (most) women have standards, you've got to work a little bit and act decent to have sex with them. Men have no standards, unless there's some kind of auto-restraint they'll hump a table leg just like a dog. It's that sex drive that women just don't get, that says hump it! hump it! hump it! The kill switch has to be their to stop men for jumping each other's bones all day long and pay attention to the women if they want some satisfaction, otherwise the species wouldn't survive.

Or probably it's that the men genetically wired to lust for women left a whole heck of a lot more offspring than those who weren't. duh.

So straight men are those in which this auto-kill switch in their brains is working like its supposed to. Gay men are those where it's broken or just gone, for whatever reason. Now women are pretty easy to get to swing both ways because they don't need that kill switch, since they don't have the drive that makes them want to go freaky-deaky on a 24-7 basis. Yeah, I know women have a sex drive, but to compare it to a mans is like the difference between shooting a bullet and just throwing it at someone.

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 19, 2013 05:38 PM (UFTmf)

488
Posted by: junior at March 19, 2013 05:31 PM (UWFpX)
Exactly, I always assumed Prop 8 passed because of Obama; had it been any other year, I think it might have been voted down. The NOH8 crowd likes to blame the mormons for its failure (when they are at most maybe 10% of the voting population, and many of them, including Steve Young's wife, voted no.) But the voting records showed a higher number of latino and black voters that year, and that those voters voted yes on 8. Inconvenient truths indeed.

Posted by: LizLem at March 19, 2013 05:39 PM (8wqqE)

489
@479 And yes they were born that way. One doesn't cultivate a desire for gay sex. It's not like smoking. One either has a same-sex attraction or one doesn't. Sure, someone attracted to the same sex CAN lead a monastic life of celibacy, or force himself to have sex with the opposite sex (thus guaranteeing the misery of one homosexual and one heterosexual), but the actual attraction is inborn.
--------------------------------
I can't say much about guys, but I know among at least a good-sized chunk of the lesbian population that's flat out wrong. There's a subset of the lesbian population that's more interested in a stable, monogamous relationship than they are in the gender of their partner. They piss the militant lesbians to no end because the fact that these women exist flies right in the face of all of the "I was born that way!" rhetoric.

Now having said that...
1.) I don't know if all lesbians fit that description, or if just a subset of them does. Nor do I even know how big that subset is.
2.) I'm not aware of similar tendencies among gay males.
3.) The whole topic is so politically charged right now (and has been for the last few decades) that there is no way to get anyreal answers to questions. Everything published on the topic, no matter how serious and careful the source, will be torn to shreds by people who are pushing the opposing view and who whole-heartedly believe that anything that varies from their view is the politicized by those who oppose them.

Posted by: junior at March 19, 2013 05:39 PM (UWFpX)

490 "If I have give up my faith and reject the Lord who saved me because of
religious persecution, I hope I would have the courage to go to the
modern equivalent of a cross."

You don't have that courage. If you can't stand up for the little things, you certainly won't stand up for the big ones. Peter denied Jesus. You will too.

Posted by: Taco Stand at March 19, 2013 05:39 PM (C+qQ0)

491 >>>All this heavy lifting to tell people Who Already Know They're Different
and Weird that they're Different and Weird feels an awful lot like the
bullying of the normal kids for the weird and different kids.

I'm not trying to tell anyone they are different or weird, and doing my very best to derive no judgement about them in general*. I've done my level best in this thread to admonish anyone who is on the "God hates fags" train stipulating off the get go that if true God would likely hate us all. But I dislike government licensed marriage in general, that flops to outright rejection when the institution is expanded.

*Although Moo Moo and Jenny are testing my limits not not judging.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 05:40 PM (0q2P7)

492 it's not falsehoods, I keep hearing how this is the ONE SIN we really need to keep a laser-like focus on.

I don't agree. I probably spend more time here then you do and I don't see that. It is somewhat tiring to see a co-blogger who thinks it's "THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE IN THE USA" every day, pushing the same agenda. We laugh at him good naturedly, and move on. If someone gets nasty to G we tell him to back off.

When I was a business owner -- during the Clinton era -- I had one rule to my employees to keep them (and me) out of trouble; don't talk about sex, no one wants to hear about it. No one wants to hear that I banged the wife so thoroughly she came 20 times last night. For example. Sex is private, or should be, unless you're a 16 year old dude that just got laid for the first time who wants to ruin his chances of ever getting laid again.

We're tuning up the fiddle while Rome is burning.

Posted by: illegally posting anonymously on the internet at March 19, 2013 05:41 PM (feFL6)

493 I want to marry the roadkill that I fucked last night. Who are you to judge me, bigot?

Posted by: Hillbilly Jimbob at March 19, 2013 05:41 PM (o5EA8)

494 Taco Stand

Meh. You don't know me and I have no interest in having a discussion about whatever you think my faults are.

Adios, Taco stand.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 05:42 PM (g7q64)

495 "Adios, Taco stand."

No problem.

Posted by: Taco Stand at March 19, 2013 05:43 PM (C+qQ0)

496 "People are complicated things."

Is this a thing?

Posted by: Corona at March 19, 2013 05:44 PM (fh2Y7)

497 You can actually be charged with neglect or cruelty of a feral animal; any animal can be victimized by a human. That's well recognized.

Polynikes, a 16 year old (or, really a 6 year old, since we are talking pedophilia) can't consent to sex because he or she is not an adult with that capacity. The age---16 vs 18 vs 15---is kind of arbitrary, because the law is a blunt instrument, not a scalpel. The point behind age of consent laws, thoug, is different from the point behind opponents of gay marriage. Age of consent laws protect a person from being victimized. Who is the victim when two men want to marry each other?

Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 05:44 PM (Fwv1e)

498 >>I am saying that at the end of the day I do wish gays weren't subject to so much snickering and jeering.

The only snickering about gay issues I come across is here at the HQ. When I talk about issues with conservatives, gay issues never come up, we bash our idiot president and his idiotic economic and foreign policies. Where do you come across all this "snickering and jeering"?

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 19, 2013 05:44 PM (AWl8t)

499 >>>The hell? Consent is pretty fucking clear, and, no, children are not capable of it; neither are unconscious people.

That is not a universal standard. Consent has meant at various times many many different things all the way down to
"Didn't take adequate steps to avoid getting raped"

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 05:44 PM (0q2P7)

500 But just for the record, should my church stipulate that we have gay marriages I would leave. I don't like performing marriages anyway. Almost everyone has no clue about Christian marrige. It's all for the dresses and the reception.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 05:46 PM (g7q64)

501 "And yes they were born that way. One doesn't cultivate a desire for gay sex."

Human sexuality is actually far too complicated to narrow down into such a definitive statement.

Some may have been born that way... but not all. I know more than one middle aged gay men that admit that they have a stronger sense of misogyny than then "ghey gene".

Posted by: Phil at March 19, 2013 05:46 PM (QzdcC)

502 >>>can't consent to sex because he or she is not an adult with that capacity.

That definition is again arbitrary because "with that capacity" is completely subjective. Consent is subjective, and arbitrarily defined at law.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 05:47 PM (0q2P7)

503 >>>I can't say much about guys, but I know among at least a good-sized chunk of the lesbian population that's flat out wrong. There's a subset of the lesbian population that's more interested in a stable, monogamous relationship than they are in the gender of their partner. They piss the militant lesbians to no end because the fact that these women exist flies right in the face of all of the "I was born that way!" rhetoric.

Well that's, I think, true. Many women don't have the strong aversion to gay sex that most men do.

All women are three cocktails away from some hot girl-on-girl action.

OTOH, in these debates, I think lesbians aren't really being thought of much. I think the lightning rod is gay men, specifically.

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 05:47 PM (LCRYB)

504 >>>That is not a universal standard. Consent has meant at various times many many different things all the way down to
"Didn't take adequate steps to avoid getting raped"

Right, that "didn't take adequate steps to avoid getting raped" is quite a misogynist interpretation of "consent."

If we can't agree on that, then that's scary.

If we can, there's no reason for you to bring it up because it's obviously wrong.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at March 19, 2013 05:48 PM (csi6Y)

505 >>>The hell? Consent is pretty fucking clear, and, no, children are not capable of it; neither are unconscious people.

Hey, lets leave the unconscious out of this.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 19, 2013 05:49 PM (AWl8t)

506 >>>t is somewhat tiring to see a co-blogger who thinks it's "THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE IN THE USA" every day, pushing the same agenda.

let's keep in mind Mel Brooks' definition of tragedy and comedy: Tragedy is when I stub my toe. Comedy is when you fall down a manhole and break your back.

I don't think it's a shock that gay stuff matters to a gay guy more than a straight guy.

Posted by: ace at March 19, 2013 05:50 PM (LCRYB)

507
@503 - OTOH, in these debates, I think lesbians aren't really being thought of much. I think the lightning rod is gay men, specifically.
--------------------------------
Somewhat ironic, then, considering that the subject who started this whole thread is, in fact, someone who is widely believed to be a lesbian (though she herself denies it).

Posted by: junior at March 19, 2013 05:50 PM (UWFpX)

508 Gays wouldn'tbe subject to giggles and jeers if they weren't so gosh darn funny!

Posted by: Eli Whitney at March 19, 2013 05:51 PM (JXtHh)

509 Every time I hear "consent is subjective" I get a little more crerped out. Good people may be confused about consent, sure, and the rules about when exactly a person becomes old enough to consent may seem arbitrary. But, no, pedo and child is not subjective and not comparable to two adult men having sex.

Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 05:51 PM (Fwv1e)

510 Enough with the freaking bestiality shit!

Posted by: Ghostly Aspiration at March 19, 2013 05:52 PM (PP8La)

511 >>All women are three cocktails away from some hot girl-on-girl action.

I think writing that is a sin.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 19, 2013 05:52 PM (AWl8t)

512 Gays wouldn'tbe subject to giggles and jeers if they weren't so gosh darn funny!
Posted by: Eli Whitney at March 19, 2013 05:51 PM (JXtHh)

Yes gay pride parades and the various fairs in San Francisco are serious venues and should not be subject to any ridicule. But Will and Grace? Hilarious.

Posted by: polynikes at March 19, 2013 05:54 PM (m2CN7)

513 >>>OTOH, in these debates, I think lesbians aren't really being thought of
much. I think the lightning rod is gay men, specifically.

Were not the ones constantly bringing the subject up dang it.* We get drug into this discussion because someone wants state sanctioned gay marriage. Or some libtard like Shocked says shit just intending to stir things up. I spend almost 0 time worrying about the sexual habits of others and want it to stay that way

*Except WBC which the entire planet recognizes is a bunch of fucktards.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 05:54 PM (0q2P7)

514 But, no, pedo and child is not subjective and not comparable to two adult men having sex.
Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 05:51 PM (Fwv1e)

Why just because you say so? So you are the arbitrator of what sexual perversion is okay or not or I guess for you , whether something is even a sexual perversion.

Posted by: polynikes at March 19, 2013 05:57 PM (m2CN7)

515 Because, think about it. Man on man sex repulses most people. Not just mild annoyance..visceral disgust. When I hear that someone is gay what I hear is "he takes it up the ass, and/or sucks the root. I blame Hollywood, particularly HBO.

Posted by: Ergathilarious at March 19, 2013 05:57 PM (FMsYN)

516 >>>Why just because you say so? So you are the arbitrator of what sexual perversion is okay or not or I guess for you , whether something is even a sexual perversion.

Thanks

Posted by: NAMBLA at March 19, 2013 05:58 PM (csi6Y)

517 >>>Every time I hear "consent is subjective" I get a little more crerped out.

Great. Take a course on philosophy sometime. Learn the difference between the subjective and objective. You might get some idea how difficult it is to say "this is absolute so we can base pillar of morality off of this foundation"

There is precious little in the world of morality and conduct that is so well defined.

Mankind has thought at different times *many* different things. All the way down to abandoning newborns, or ritually burning them to death was a good idea.

You can't bant around modern conceptions of an idea and say "This is the end all be all of all understandings on the topic" just because it happens to be the current one. Things change. Understandings change. Ideas change. And what constitutes consent today may not be the case in 10-20-100-1000 years as it has differed over all of those time spans. So you cannot make an absolute moral argument from it pure and simple. Absolute morality requires absolute truth, which there is none on a vague concept like "consent"

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 19, 2013 06:02 PM (0q2P7)

518 Thanks
Posted by: NAMBLA at March 19, 2013 05:58 PM (csi6Y)

NAMBLA is thanking me because I think man boy sex is a perversion as well as thinking man man sex is also a perversion? Your wit is idiotic.

Posted by: polynikes at March 19, 2013 06:02 PM (m2CN7)

519
@515Because, think about it. Man on man sex repulses most people. Not just mild annoyance..visceral disgust.
--------------------------------------
Does it? There certainly seems to be a large subset of female anime fandom who are big on shows with gay leads.

Posted by: junior at March 19, 2013 06:03 PM (UWFpX)

520 What about pedasty?If, say, Harry Reid is allegedly attracted only to 12-to-17 year old boys, does that make him a gay pederast or just a pederast? I've had at least one friendship end over this question.

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at March 19, 2013 06:03 PM (YmPwQ)

521 "I am saying that at the end of the day I do wish gays weren't subject to so much snickering and jeering."

1000% percent agree, Ace. I think there is a way for the new GOP to show LGTB people that they do
respect them and their opinions, yet not have to do so at the expense of religious freedom. But snickering at someone doesn't help make them want to see your POV, even if the POV benefits them.

I think most younger liberals, even those wha are LGTB, are more libertarian than they realize. And in fact, 100% personal freedom, in their homes and in their wallets, should interest them more than perhaps a lot of the other subgroups the GOP is trying to court. But social issues are sexier than fiscal ones, unfortunately. Instead of treating them as equals, as grownups, the dems do this sick sort of coddling, throwing them bones and patting them on the head. Surely that gets tiring after a while? There has to be a way to open their eyes to this, but Hilary is making sure they can keep them shut still for 2016. Clever girl.

And sorry Ace, but I have to agree with junior about the "born that way" thing not being 100% true for everyone. That might be true for most gay men, but for lesbians not always. And for bisexuals, it gets realllly muddy. Human sexuality is definitely a complex thing.

Posted by: LizLem at March 19, 2013 06:03 PM (8wqqE)

522 >BTW, I'm not arguing for gay marriage. I am only arguing in favor
getting over this idea that we need special government laws to
"encourage homosexuality" and that we need to fear the 'normalization"
of something that is so terribly infrequent (around 3%).

I am saying that at the end of the day I do wish gays weren't subject to so much snickering and jeering.

And yes they were born that way. One doesn't cultivate a desire for
gay sex. It's not like smoking. One either has a same-sex attraction
or one doesn't. Sure, someone attracted to the same sex CAN lead a
monastic life of celibacy, or force himself to have sex with the
opposite sex (thus guaranteeing the misery of one homosexual and one
heterosexual), but the actual attraction is inborn.

All this heavy lifting to tell people Who Already Know They're
Different and Weird that they're Different and Weird feels an awful lot
like the bullying of the normal kids for the weird and different kids.
<

So many strawmen, so little time.

You can make many of these same arguments for almost anything. They are very template and sorry, they lack real intellectual substance.

We are a Constitutional Republic which bases it's law on natural law. There are purposeful limits on what is condoned or covered as a "right". Gay marriage is not "natural" in any sense of the word. Nobody's made that argument going back to Sumeria and the first recorded marriage. Gay marriage is not a right. It was never contemplated as such because that designation is not necessary or proper.

If homosexuals want to go about living their lives, so be it. We have laws which protect all people. We don't need a special class of person- which is what this codification is trying to do. We have "equal" rights amongst each other, Not special privileges because someone is gay.

I could make the very same argument that should it become popular enough, people should be able to marry goats or a shoe for that matter. It ultimately a foolish tyranny of the majority trying to demonize those who are non believers and steal rights under the guise of fairness.

Posted by: Marcus at March 19, 2013 06:05 PM (zgv4M)

523 For the record I think that homosexual men are created in the womb, by some strange cocktail of hormones. Medical science is beginning to lean in this direction. A very, very slight effect, to the point that in identical twin males one may be gay, while the other is straight. Invariably it is the left-handed twin. The more male offspring a woman has the higher the probability of birthing a homosexual male.

So I'm not gonna blame them in any way for something so totally outside of their control. But there also seems to be another side effect of being gay, which is anger -- at society, at rules -- perhaps because of some self loathing, I don't know. Suicide rates among homosexual males are 'off the charts'. Everyday slights that roll off the back of the rest of us become unpardonable sins that require the other 97% of society to accommodate. I just don't have the patience to listen to the 'outrage of the day' from such a well-tolerated, and over-represented in the media group and give much of a shit.

Posted by: illegally posting anonymously on the internet at March 19, 2013 06:05 PM (feFL6)

524 Perversion is overwhelming in today's liberal world. Even the simple act of streaming movies is wrought with gay-lesbian selections. It's liberalism gone awry.

Posted by: GreenEyes at March 19, 2013 06:06 PM (nu16a)

525 Polynikes, it's not about perversion fir fucks sake, I never said it was. Its about rights. Children have an established right to not be subject to sex because they can't be expected to fully understand all the consequences, same reason why we aren't allowed to make binding contracts with children.

Pick the age at which you should be old enough to sign a lease, drop out of school, join the military. Its probably 16 or 18. Now picture 3 years before that. Kids that age, 13-15, know about sex, want sex, and may even appear sexually attractive to non perverse adults. But are they ready for sex? No!

Gay sex is icky, but it's not taking advantage of someone

Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 06:12 PM (Fwv1e)

526 All you intolerants! Into zee train.

Posted by: the gaystapo at March 19, 2013 06:12 PM (ORGYc)

527 I work with plenty of those 20-somethings who are supposedly so in favor of SSM....they may not care about marriage one way or the other but therm "gay" is still used as an insult, as much as it was when I was younger.

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at March 19, 2013 06:13 PM (YmPwQ)

528 Homosexuals don't like the Natural Law facts, because when you start to expound on how it relates to the institution of marriage it works against them. They can't take up the procreation argument. I would further argue they've corrupted the word "love". Love has many meanings. You can "love" your brother, your mother, your father. In fact, God tells us to do so. But I sincerely doubt God meant to "love" your brother in a way akin to the way a man loves his wife. There is a very specific connotation to that love that does not include same-sex "love. So, no, it's not possible for a person to love another man or woman for that matter using the true definition and connotation. No matter how ridiculously sophistic and contra-intellectual you get.

Posted by: Marcus at March 19, 2013 06:16 PM (zgv4M)

529 Anyone have a map to the bitch's house?

Posted by: southern poverty law center at March 19, 2013 06:17 PM (ORGYc)

530 I have to admit that was rather funny-"gaystopo". However. I did come across a man on some political board who said in all seriousness that all Christians should be out in concentration camps so that they would not "infect" the rest of the population/ He was a physician. He said he would run over Christians in the street but he didn't want to go to jail. Fortunately he lived in Texas so i didn't have to worry I would meet him in private practice.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 06:17 PM (g7q64)

531 519, not a fan of anime. Are these shows graphic or are the gays just "one of the girls " (for lack of a better term). I know that many women enjoy the company of gay men because they don't want what the rest of us do, but I don't see the same reaction that we'd have to 2 hot girls making out.

Posted by: Ergathilarious at March 19, 2013 06:17 PM (NlCgY)

532 Oh for fucks sakr

I really did.just waste time talking to people who will twist into pretzels and come across like rape apologists rather than simply admit that gay sex between adults is nothing at all like raping a kid or a dog.

Later.

Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 06:18 PM (Fwv1e)

533 Meant "put in" concentration camps

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 06:18 PM (g7q64)

534 Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 06:12 PM (Fwv1e)

My grandmother was married at 15. Married for 57 years. Fuck off.

Posted by: polynikes at March 19, 2013 06:18 PM (m2CN7)

535 I did come across a man on some political board who said in all
seriousness that all Christians should be out in concentration camps so
that they would not "infect" the rest of the population

I've seen these guys in the #atheism channel on DALNet. They view religious indoctrination as child abuse. So, yeah, they'll say whatever.

'Swhy I didn't go back. Although I'm a secularist myself and agnostic etc etc.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at March 19, 2013 06:21 PM (QTHTd)

536 Yes, the old religious indoctrination is child abuse, line, but it's not indoctrination to turn your kid into a leftist Some of them also argue that Christians should have their kids taken away and raised by the state. Oh, brave new world :^(

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 06:26 PM (g7q64)

537 >>>My grandmother was married at 15. Married for 57 years. Fuck off.

What...

Posted by: NAMBLA at March 19, 2013 06:26 PM (csi6Y)

538 "How you get there is the question, but you can not be a Christian without accepting that there is a Hell.

People's souls go there when they do not accept Christ. Accepting Christ, but not obeying his laws won't work. God is not a dumb ass. Just the facts."

Maybe you shouldn't call the existence of hell "a fact."

Its more like a theory.

Posted by: sexypig at March 19, 2013 06:28 PM (dZQh7)

539 >>>So you are the arbitrator of what
sexual perversion is okay or not or I guess for you , whether something
is even a sexual perversion.

Okay, if that's your position, then why should YOU get to be the arbitrator, then? Why should anyone, for that matter? I mean, citing to a holy book isn't exactly the sort of logic that's bound to convince anyone who isn't already on-side with your particular religion (and your particular interpretation of that religion, for that matter). If the response is that we fashion our answers to these questions by referring to cultural consensus (in truth, pretty much what happens), well then guess what? Your definitions of these terms loses, and loses hard. Might not have thirty years ago, but today?

Ironically enough, you're the one who's setting up a purely arbitrary, relativistic framework. You think you can fall back on "BUT NATURAL LAW!" but you fail to realize that that's still just your opinion, and one that is in an increasingly shrinking minority. Is that what you wanted?

Posted by: Jeff B. at March 19, 2013 06:30 PM (/COnL)

540
@532 not a fan of anime. Are these shows graphic or are the gays just "one of the girls " (for lack of a better term). I know that many women enjoy the company of gay men because they don't want what the rest of us do, but I don't see the same reaction that we'd have to 2 hot girls making out.
--------------------------------------------
Couldn't tell you. Not my cup of hot chocolate, if you catch my drift. But it seems to be popular enough. The Japanese term 'yaoi' has crept into English as a result of it.
Andjust as an FYI, the gender-flipped term for two girls is 'yuri'.

On the other hand, it could very well be that the fact it's known to exist in anime draws the fans in even greater numbers than would otherwise be the case; kind of like how the fact that Bioware is known to put same sexlove interestsin their games tends to draw out a rather militant crowd on their forums that won't settle for anything less than every lastin-game love interest as a potential same sex candidate.

Posted by: junior at March 19, 2013 06:32 PM (UWFpX)

541 @Jeff B, plus they pretty much have to define America as Christian, going against the Constitution...because what if another religion was okay with gays? Then they suddenly have to clamp down on that religion. This is why I think polgamy will eventually be legal too, and should be. What right do we have to deny Muslims following their religious beliefs? Tons of feminists keep insisting this is verboten, but I do not understand why it is.

Posted by: sexypig at March 19, 2013 06:33 PM (dZQh7)

542 Jeff B,

Have you ever addressed any issues here but gay marriage?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 06:35 PM (g7q64)

543 >>> Jeff B,
Have you ever addressed any issues here but gay marriage?

Yes he has.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at March 19, 2013 06:37 PM (csi6Y)

544 O.k. I'll take your word for it.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 06:37 PM (g7q64)

545
>>But she's a left-wing firebrand who agrees with Fred Phelps that god hates fags

Fred Phelps is also a left-wing firebrand

Posted by: Albie Damned at March 19, 2013 06:40 PM (Yhu4q)

546
>>Okay, if that's your position, then why should YOU get to be the arbitrator..
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 19, 2013 06:30 PM (/COnL)

That'd be "arbiter"

Posted by: Albie Damned at March 19, 2013 06:44 PM (Yhu4q)

547 >>>Have you ever addressed any issues here but gay marriage?

Sure. You may remember me from my Greatest Hits over the past nine years, including the classics...

- "C'mon Guys, Andrew Sullivan Really Is A Conservative, He's Just Going Through A Rough Phase!"

- "Dude? I'm Not So Sure About This Terri Schiavo Thing."

- "Boy That John McCain Sure Seems Like The Best Possible Nominee For 2008!"

- "I Must Say, I Am Not All That Impressed With Sarah Palin"

...and of course who could forget my #1 chartbuster:

- "Hey Guys! Mitt Romney! Catch The Fever!"

Posted by: Jeff B. at March 19, 2013 06:47 PM (/COnL)

548 It's fair to say I've had a checkered track record.

Posted by: Jeff B. at March 19, 2013 06:51 PM (/COnL)

549 "And I think the main message of Christianity, John 3:16, is barely
heard. What we hear about is the "rules," and not the main thrust of
it, which is that God forgives and Jesus Saves absolutely."

i'm lapsed myself but this view is the same flawed reading that liberals always give Christianity, misapplication of the forgiveness/Golden Rule stuff.

obviously forgiveness is the main part of it. but "forgive me" and "i didn't do anything wrong" are two totally different things

Posted by: JDP at March 19, 2013 07:07 PM (60GaT)

550 "Okay, if that's your position, then why should YOU get to be the arbitrator, then?"

this is weaksauce

a lot of pro-SSM people draw the line at other stuff. who made them the arbiter

Posted by: JDP at March 19, 2013 07:10 PM (60GaT)

551 Never knew much about her, but Arkansas Traveler , has always been one of my favorite albums.

Posted by: marine43 at March 19, 2013 07:19 PM (lHoXr)

552 @ 102

a Gina Carrino type woman beat the everloving shit out of a tranny might be entertaining.

Posted by: EC at March 19, 2013 04:14 PM (GQ8sn)

I'm pretty sure I saw a tranny beat the everlovin' daylights out of Carano last Saturaday on Showtime.

Her/It's last name was Cyborg.

Supposedly female from Brazil but your tastes would have to run toward Jake LaMotta in a long blonde wig to find Cyborg at all womanly.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 19, 2013 07:19 PM (G9qZk)

553 178
But anyway, remembering Sodom and Gomorrah, you may want to avoid balls of fire coming from the sky and other celestial abnormalities if engaging in those practices.
Posted by: Marcus at March 19, 2013 04:25 PM (GGCsk)

Does this mean that Chelyabinsk is the San Francisco of Russia?

Posted by: rickl at March 19, 2013 07:22 PM (sdi6R)

554 [Head Ewok: Sure, someone attracted to the same sex CAN lead a monastic life of celibacy]
Indeed. As do I, being straight and divorced and thus also proscribed from sex. Christ called us to take up our cross daily and follow him in denial of self. The cross is different for each, but if He is truly Lord it is better to follow His lead rather than my own.

Posted by: BK at March 19, 2013 07:29 PM (T5IJ4)

555 I'm damn sick of heterophobes stirring shit with their shit stirrers.

Posted by: Torqued at March 19, 2013 08:07 PM (AKS75)

556 Honest question:

Is opposition to gay marriage still seen as a winning issue for the majority of you?

This issue has seemed to me to be inevitable for the last ten years. This story is the exception that proves the rule. Conversions, such as this, from pro-gay to anti are so rare that even a z-list celebrity like Michelle Shocked (a name I haven't considered since the 80's) converting to an anti-gay stance is news.

At the same time, prominent republicans and democrats alike announce a change of heart in favor of gay rights on a daily basis.

81% of Americans under 30 favor gay marriage. That means most Republicans under 30 favor gay marriage.

At what point does the Republic Party see the writing on the bathhouse wall?

Posted by: seattle slough at March 19, 2013 08:27 PM (mCz8+)

557 Here's my take: THAT'S FUNNY AS HELL!

Posted by: Pastorius at March 19, 2013 08:28 PM (gMAUH)

558 when exactly did making sure that gay people's lives are difficult become the main (only?) tenet of christianity ? seems like there's a whole lotta other stuff in that book that these alleged "true believers" regularly ignore. i can't help but notice that even the pope shaves and cuts his hair in direct defiance of biblical commands...and i haven't heard about any disobedient children being stoned to death lately...are there many bible-believing women out there who move out of the house during their monthly 'unclean' periods and who sacrifice a dove before being allowed back inside ? there may be some, but not many. yet, when it comes to gay folks, suddenly they are all strict followers of the scriptural word of god himself. ya think that there might be a chance that they are just using religion as a convenient cover for their bigotry ?

Posted by: el polacko at March 19, 2013 08:45 PM (oFtyF)

559
Michelle's mistake was telling the truth without love. Christian, do you hear the loud clanging gong?
Ace - you're a good egg, and a first rate thinker.You're alsomuch closer to the truth, if you'll consider the obverse, than you know. Sin is sin is sin. (Sermon on the Mount people! Gah!)
So... ...what?

Keep pushing brother. You'll see it.

Posted by: JQP at March 19, 2013 08:51 PM (GVL0g)

560 559: Actually, her big mistake was telling the truth without context. It's easy to pick "one liners" out of the Bible and twist them for your own end or to use them to tweak peoples' noses. The problem -and I've seen this countless times from Christians at all levels of knowledge and "depth of faith"-- is that it just shows the speaker's ignorance about scripture.

Posted by: Manolo at March 19, 2013 08:57 PM (PttbO)

561 this one got people in frisco all upset....but then what doesn't?!?!

http://bit.ly/thisonegot

i miss punk

Posted by: steve l. at March 19, 2013 09:15 PM (R0MFk)

562 hey I actually knew Michelle Shocked back in college at Austin, before she got "famous". She was always a strong tempered (and temperamental) person. Her first two albums were awesome. Loved "Anchorage" and especially "Making the Run to Gladewater". Then she got all worked up, as I understand it, and almost totaled her career. Looks like history repeats itself.

Posted by: Cowboy at March 19, 2013 09:27 PM (FMrA0)

563 If any fellow morons want to try out a Michelle Shocked album, I can recommend Arkansas Traveler. It came out in her "liberal years," but is deeply respectful of country folk and country traditions. It is very good music. That's one of those albums that everyone should listen to.

Posted by: MS fan at March 19, 2013 09:42 PM (lw5+8)

564 Well, the point is We have the New covenant in the bllod of Jesus Christ. We are not compelled to obey the laws of diet and hair cutting etc found in the Old Testament. That is frequently used by gay activists-particularly by Atheists and is an illegitimate argument. Jesus lifts up the Ten Commandments. Paul rejects the regulations for diet for everything is clean as far as diet. If gays want to argue that Jesus didn't mention homosexuality or that the regulations against homosexulaity in the Old Tetament were based on a need for people to have children fine, but don't don't go the old "but the Old Testament doesn't allow people to eat shellfish route." And anyway. I have a lot more respect for people who actually ARE Christians and gay who bring up things in the NT than people who are not griping about a book they have no use for and /or a God they don't believe in

And for the record before I get blasted as a bigot s bigot I have a sponsor for my son's baptism who is gay. I used to me more in favor of gay marriage before militant gays threatened people with loss of jobs or death threats because they didn't endorse gay marriage. That turned me to the camp of everyone should have a civil union and leave marriages to churches.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 09:46 PM (g7q64)

565 But I am totally disinterested in the "gays are sinners" discussion since I don't believe they're anymore sinners than lots of others are. Still doesn't mean I think the government should change the definition of marriage.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 19, 2013 09:50 PM (g7q64)

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