aceofspadeshq at gee mail.com
CBD:
cbd.aoshq at gee mail.com
Buck:
buck.throckmorton at protonmail.com
joe mannix:
mannix2024 at proton.me
MisHum:
petmorons at gee mail.com
J.J. Sefton:
sefton at cutjibnewsletter.com
On Branding and Self-Ghettoization
Allen G., who doesn't have a blog but probably should, wrote:
Actually, I like that idea of a speaking circuit [of sending conservatives out to speak on college campuses]. And specifically of bloggers and "minor players." Further, you need a group that is not directly linked to any of the Conservative players. Then, it's not "The College Republicans Hosting [Whomever]," rather it's "The Open Ideas Society* Hosting [Whomever]."This is a hobbyhorse of mine. The left never brands itself as the Left or Liberal, does it? No, they brand themselves for everyone. We need to start doing that. For example, we shouldn't have an organization named "League of Conservative Women." (There is no such league; this is a for-instance.) We should have a "League of Women," period. Not just for "conservative women." But for all women. We tend to brand ourselves -- and worse yet, we've internalized this to the point where we think of ourselves this way -- as "the conservative alternative." We need start branding ourselves as, and thinking of ourselves as, the Universal Default. This is how leftists do it and they're quite effective at it. On every cable TV show we see a debate between an "expert" and a "conservative." The "expert" is actually liberal but he insists on not being branded as such, so he becomes just "the expert." Just in terms of the introductions, who's winning that debate? The expert (nonpolitical and learned to such an extent as to be an "expert") or the conservative (a guy coming on TV to sell you on an ideology, who, gee whiz, isn't even an expert in the subject matter)? Every decision point is a possible failure point. Every step in a seduction or a sale (pardon this analogy) which requires a yes or no response is a possible failure point in the process. Right up front, right from Jump Street, we give the world its first yes/no decision/failure point by identifying as conservative (or permitting the media to so brand us). Right way, there's a potential failure point, because we're asking first "Do you like conservative ideas or don't you?" Some say yes, but others say No, and thus the sale/seduction fails at the "Can I talk with you a moment?" phase. The liberal cruises right on by that point because he hasn't asked for a decision. He didn't introduce himself as a "Liberal" trying to make a sale or get you into bed. He's just an Expert giving you some Expert Opinion, you know. How can you say no to that? Golly jeepers, usually you'd have to pay $200 per hour for that sort of thing, and this guy's giving it to you gratis!!! Now, the "Expert" can fail later but he can't fail over the first decision point because he's avoided the decision point entirely. On the other hand, we can fail before we even say a word. I continue to think that Arnold Schwarzenegger -- whatever else you think of him -- gave one of the most persuasive speeches I've ever heard at the 2004 Republican National Convention. Notice he never asks a question here (well, he puts it in the "If you believe..." form, but that's essentially a question) that almost anyone could say "No" to. It's instead a series of questions which 90% of the public would say "Yes" to. He rhetorically avoids all the Decision/Failure points.
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 04:57 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 04:58 PM (4OvDk)
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 04:58 PM (TIIx5)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 04:58 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 04:58 PM (4OvDk)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 04:59 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 04:59 PM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: Barry Soetoro: Expert at March 14, 2013 05:00 PM (wIgpo)
Posted by: Regular Moron at March 14, 2013 05:00 PM (feFL6)
Posted by: Whatev at March 14, 2013 05:00 PM (A7Wh1)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:00 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 05:00 PM (9Bj8R)
...just like it was for the Minutemen a few years back.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:00 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Adriane loves the Classics but is Easily Confused at March 14, 2013 05:00 PM (TvO05)
Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 14, 2013 05:00 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:01 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 14, 2013 05:01 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:01 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:01 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Austin in TX at March 14, 2013 05:01 PM (F9Hpt)
You seem to be forgetting the rule (I can't remember whose it is)
"Any organization not expressly constituted as conservative will become liberal over time."
Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 14, 2013 05:01 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:02 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 05:02 PM (ZshNr)
Posted by: Pipe Holder at March 14, 2013 05:02 PM (VTeUD)
*snoopy-dance*
Hopefully it's not the Naked Snoopy Dance
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:02 PM (IZIoZ)
That's because most people aren't rational.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 05:02 PM (4OvDk)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:02 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: aquaviva at March 14, 2013 05:02 PM (N+5MV)
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 05:02 PM (DlaLh)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:03 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:03 PM (XkWWK)
Sorta like when I went to Students for a Democratic Society meetings in 1971-73?
There would be no democracy in their fascist plans and society be damned.
Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at March 14, 2013 05:03 PM (+I8Mq)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:03 PM (XkWWK)
Conservative Women." (There is no such league; this is a for-instance.)
We should have a "League of Women," period. Not just for
"conservative women." But for all women.
I think we need a League of Hot Conservative Women. Sorta covers all the bases.
Posted by: pep at March 14, 2013 05:04 PM (6TB1Z)
The newest threat to the Homeland, worse than man-made disasters, worse than elementary school bullying, worse than those people that insist on their Constitutional Rights........the Universal Default Movement.
Posted by: Miz Napolitano, wearing a flannel shirt at March 14, 2013 05:04 PM (TIIx5)
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 05:04 PM (ZgBZU)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:04 PM (HzhBE)
Thats a good way to explain what you've written about today.
Posted by: JarvisW at March 14, 2013 05:04 PM (E7Iyp)
Yeah, Ace.
The Left likes to condemn...'Stereotypes'.
They rail about it, and cluck about how "we shouldn't use Stereotypes!"
And yet...they always use conservative stereotypes.
We need a conservative show named: 'Stereotype Busters'
Posted by: wheatie at March 14, 2013 05:04 PM (2xMNt)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:04 PM (IZIoZ)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 05:05 PM (ZshNr)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:05 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at March 14, 2013 05:05 PM (CRDPR)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:06 PM (HzhBE)
Fix utube linky please...
Oh, and "duh". The worst opening line in sales is "can I help you" (or any other closed end Q), yet that's exactly how many on the right seem to approach pretty much everything.
And snark. Forgot about that, butthe RightWing needs to pick up it's game.If you're too shocked to throw out lines, or want to take the time to craft the perfect repartee, well, you'll seem stupid or dull.
You want to wrestle a pig? You're gonna get dirty. Trust me on that.
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 05:06 PM (lbiWb)
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at March 14, 2013 05:05 PM (CRDPR)
George Hamilton, pres.
Charlie Crist, VP
OT: Where've ya been???
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:06 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:06 PM (EweV2)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 05:06 PM (ZshNr)
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 05:06 PM (UypUQ)
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at March 14, 2013 05:06 PM (CRDPR)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:06 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: hope this isn't already taken at March 14, 2013 05:06 PM (rdy8w)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:07 PM (XkWWK)
The Orange Junk Society presents....
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at March 14, 2013 05:05 PM (CRDPR)
You'll get my Cheetos from my cold, dead hands.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 05:07 PM (TIIx5)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:07 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Mama AJ at March 14, 2013 05:07 PM (SUKHu)
Posted by: Regular Moron at March 14, 2013 05:07 PM (feFL6)
okay, marketing geniuses, now explain how we're going to compete with the giveaways, e.g., obamapho's
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 05:07 PM (xIzGn)
In one case, he sent the ad out in, I think, Latin, to educators. Claimed it had a great success rate, even though no one read Latin. They were happy someone thought to include them in the group that did, though.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 14, 2013 05:07 PM (QF8uk)
Posted by: teh Wind at March 14, 2013 05:07 PM (JIMJN)
Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 14, 2013 05:07 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: polynikes at March 14, 2013 05:08 PM (m2CN7)
Posted by: MJ at March 14, 2013 05:08 PM (vl5mg)
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 05:08 PM (lbiWb)
I still have a couple of sheets of my MMMS notepad left in my desk drawer.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 14, 2013 05:08 PM (QF8uk)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 05:02 PM (ZshNr)
Bring them over here. I'll deal with them.
Close the door on the way out.
Posted by: Zyclon-B at March 14, 2013 05:08 PM (yLuBK)
Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 14, 2013 05:08 PM (31Nrp)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:08 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: toby928© Crypto-Fashionist at March 14, 2013 05:08 PM (QupBk)
Allen G doesn't have a blog? Why don't you reprobates TELL me these things?
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 04:58 PM (TIIx5)
It's sensitive , we're trying to be discreet for his sake.
Posted by: Temper Tantrum at March 14, 2013 05:08 PM (AWmfW)
Posted by: pep at March 14, 2013 05:08 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at March 14, 2013 05:08 PM (CRDPR)
Posted by: Soona at March 14, 2013 05:08 PM (Nm/Lp)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:09 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: hope this isn't already taken at March 14, 2013 05:06 PM (rdy8w)
The Congressional Republicans already are the "go along to get along gang" and it ain't working out so good
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 05:09 PM (9Bj8R)
Hah. You know, this is the central principle of The Con, or of Disinformation (which is just The Con in espionage matters).
The Con Artist -- or the spy wishing a hostile actor to believe something false -- does not offer him the False Thing from his own mouth. People's defensiveness kicks on when they're being Told Something. People are naturally suspicious and antagonistic towards ideas coming from other people.
HOWEVER, if you let the Mark think of the False Thing himself... then it's coming from he himself. Not only do you bypass his defensive reaction to being Told Something, but now he has pride of authorship in the false idea, because HE thought of it!
The whole Operation to make the Germans think D-Day was coming at Calais rather than Normandy was based on this. The allies floated a dead body into the sea with an attache of a secret documents. Not a single document said "The invasion will come at Calais." The Nazis would have immediately have recognized that as a Ploy.
Instead, the documents detailed certain troop and supply movements to depots near Calais. We let the Nazi intelligence officers put it together themselves and figure out that the invasion would be at Calais.
The operation wasn't much of a success because the Nazis were pretty firmly convinced D-Day would come upon Normandy. But we did inject enough doubt for Hitler to move two divisions (or something) to Calais. The Sale here was impossible, and we didn't make the impossible sale; we did get a Down Payment out of them, though.
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2013 05:09 PM (LCRYB)
Right up front, right from Jump Street, we give the world its first yes/no decision/failure point by identifying as conservative (or permitting the media to so brand us). Right way, there's a potential failure point, because we're asking first "Do you like conservative ideas or don't you?" Some say yes, but others say No, and thus the sale/seduction fails at the "Can I talk with you a moment?" phase.
The liberal cruises right on by that point because he hasn't asked for a decision. He didn't introduce himself as a "Liberal" trying to make a sale or get you into bed. He's just an Expert giving you some Expert Opinion, you know.
What liberals excel at is "Training Them To Say Yes."
Don't you agree that people should be free to choose things for themselves? Yes.
Do you agree that people should be allowed to make their own health care decisions? Yes. Of course.
NOW GET IN THERE AND KILL YOUR UNBORN CHILD!!!
Okay, maybe the last one is a little hamfisted, but that's how they sell the harder stuff. You have to START with the things on which you agree. Why would you begin with an adversarial opening, whether you're selling cars or your philosophy? You've just positioned yourself as the enemy. Who the fuck wants to buy anything from their enemy.
How I discuss my beliefs here is definitely not how I do it in meatspace. Not that I never use the arguments, mockery or psyche-rape, I just don't *lead* with it. You catch more flies with honey. But if you don't, you can always swat them later.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 05:09 PM (CJjw5)
A little difference there (also: I'm not saying it would work every time, but it would work more than what we're currently doing)- the Minute Men were organized specifically against Illegal Immigration, and specifically at a time when it was being played as particularly polarizing.
I'm not talking about that. The point of these kinds of organizations is to have names that are pure pablum so people listen to you. Okay, maybe not "pure pablum," but nice, safe, and Serious Sounding.
League of Women is a good one (or would be if it hadn't been taken by the Liberals already). "Open Debate Society" is another good one (what do we believe in? Why- open debate!). And you can focus on other areas.
Here are some (admittedly off-the-cuff) ideas:
Women's issues: "The Free Women's Society."
Latino issues: "League of Latino Citizens."
Environmental issues: "Organization of Naturalists and Conservationists."
Then (to avoid the "any organization which is not specifically conservative..." problem) you enshrine certain ideas in your bylaws. Then (and this is the really hard part) you actually get conservatives to show up and spend some time doing this crap, so they can fend off the liberal moochers who will come in and try to take over.
Not easy, but few things that are worthwhile ever are.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 05:09 PM (4OvDk)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:09 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: polynikes at March 14, 2013 05:09 PM (m2CN7)
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 05:09 PM (lbiWb)
Posted by: thunderb at March 14, 2013 05:09 PM (Dnbau)
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at March 14, 2013 05:08 PM (CRDPR)
I enjoy your name. Figuratively speaking.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:09 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 14, 2013 05:09 PM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: Colorado Alex at March 14, 2013 05:10 PM (DsPRa)
Posted by: Tami at March 14, 2013 05:10 PM (X6akg)
Posted by: © Sponge at March 14, 2013 05:10 PM (xmcEQ)
This pissed me off to the point of basically turning off television. It seeps into every aspect of programming, from the "news" to the weekly dramas/sitcoms...to the entire bullshit progression they've made to (staged) Reality TV.
Folks accept free "entertainment" in exchange for the ability of the networks to subliminally (and overtly) pump propaganda into their consciousnesses. Christ. So many options out there, none of which are as "easy" as watching TV. If folks are bored, learn something. Do a crossword. Read a book. Talk to a friend. Write a letter. Volunteer. Aaaaaigh.
The average American just wants to get tanked up on RedBull and sit in front of the idiot box. We're going to fix *that*? I wish I knew how that was possible.
Posted by: akula51 at March 14, 2013 05:10 PM (hNXHo)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:10 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Whatev at March 14, 2013 05:10 PM (A7Wh1)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:10 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: soothsayer
Truth in Taxes Bill:
All Federal welfare programs are to be listed on each and every paycheck.
Are you against the truth? How could you be against the truth??!!
Only bad people want lies on the paychecks of the workers! You aren't a bad person, are you?
Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 14, 2013 05:10 PM (UCv7P)
I read it at Cornell, because I’m an elite.
Never met whats-is-name there, though.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 14, 2013 05:10 PM (QF8uk)
Give money for the Children!
Posted by: Mama AJ, Concerned Citizens for the Children at March 14, 2013 05:10 PM (SUKHu)
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at March 14, 2013 05:11 PM (CRDPR)
We call ours The Breakfast Club.
The name is good for engaging younger people. And there's breakfast so its pretty truthful.
Posted by: MJ at March 14, 2013 05:11 PM (vl5mg)
Posted by: thunderb at March 14, 2013 05:11 PM (Dnbau)
Posted by: Whatev at March 14, 2013 05:12 PM (A7Wh1)
yup... this is what I'm getting at when I talk about the Aspirational.
Right now, vis-a-vis the folks who Aspire to be Intellectual or afficianados of The Finer Things In Life, we're not really giving them our own Aspirational model. We're kind of just telling them "You're wrong to want that."
Can't sell that. People will not change their fundamental core just because you say "You're wrong."
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2013 05:12 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: zsasz at March 14, 2013 05:12 PM (MMC8r)
Yeah, I get it. It's just that as soon as someone opens their mouth and something remotely resembling reality and intelligent thought, they will go ape.
Whenever I argue with a lefty, I always take the position as far to their left as possible, because it forces them to be hypocrites by disagreeing with you.
Maybe that might be a tac?
Cheers.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:12 PM (XkWWK)
"conservative." The "expert" is actually liberal but he insists on not
being branded as such, so he becomes just "the expert."
Just in terms of the introductions, who's winning that debate?
...
----------
To illustrate this point, Ace, we need a super-cut of many many examples of this happening during the last few years.. with a paused interjection of how and why the "expert" is really from a liberal institution.
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 05:12 PM (UypUQ)
Republicans
Involved in
Nothing
Organizationally
Substantive
Posted by: Regular Moron
People
United who
Resist
Improper
Thoughts
Yes!
Posted by: pep at March 14, 2013 05:12 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: toby928© Crypto-Fashionist at March 14, 2013 05:12 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 05:12 PM (UypUQ)
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 05:13 PM (TIIx5)
Posted by: Al Bundy at March 14, 2013 05:13 PM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: Colorado Alex at March 14, 2013 05:13 PM (DsPRa)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:13 PM (HzhBE)
On a cold and gray Chicago mornin'
A poor little baby child is born
In the ghetto
And his mama cries
Cause if there's one thing that she don't need
It's another hungry mouth to feed
In the ghetto
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 14, 2013 05:13 PM (IY7Ir)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:13 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: toby928© Crypto-Fashionist at March 14, 2013 05:13 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:13 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: hope this isn't already taken at March 14, 2013 05:13 PM (rdy8w)
Hint: You use their brand against them.
For instance, you ask people if they like paying for other people's wireless phones.
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 05:14 PM (yhYn1)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:14 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: People's Front for Conservatism at March 14, 2013 05:14 PM (DsPRa)
I gather that you're conflicted.
We should be Out & Proud but not in a Willy Loman way -- copy that.
Posted by: RamonAllones at March 14, 2013 05:14 PM (3lLli)
Posted by: George Costanaz at March 14, 2013 05:14 PM (LCRYB)
EoJ, did you ever do Recruiter duty?
Because that is Day One, Lesson One at the Recruiter Course.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:14 PM (EweV2)
On a cold and gray Chicago mornin'
A poor little baby child is born
In the ghetto
And his mama cries
Cause if there's one thing that she don't need
It's another hungry mouth to feed
In the ghetto
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 14, 2013 05:13 PM (IY7Ir)
Damn it, he was born in Kenya!
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:14 PM (XkWWK)
The joke being, you empower people by giving them facts, instead of empowering them by hamstringing through government all other players.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 14, 2013 05:14 PM (NJs1e)
featuring Ben Shapiro, Charles Cooke, and Dr. Benjamin Carson as guest speakers
*beer is not free
Posted by: The Q at March 14, 2013 05:14 PM (yVmMc)
Posted by: Soona at March 14, 2013 05:14 PM (Nm/Lp)
Posted by: Jerry Jack in Jacksonville at March 14, 2013 05:15 PM (Dll6b)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 14, 2013 05:15 PM (NJs1e)
I had a comment promoted to a post, once. It was something about how to get your wife to bang you when she's tired or not in the mood, or something.
My agent's already been giving me the talk about typecasting. FML.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 05:15 PM (CJjw5)
Posted by: JarvisW at March 14, 2013 05:16 PM (E7Iyp)
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 14, 2013 05:16 PM (/kI1Q)
The Irony Club
That would be like heroin for college kids.
Posted by: MJ at March 14, 2013 05:08 PM (vl5mg)"
I suggest that chapters of College Republicans change their names to this immediately. Imagine if millions of PBR drinking hipsters had voted for Romney ironically?
Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 14, 2013 05:16 PM (31Nrp)
Posted by: zsasz at March 14, 2013 05:16 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: USS Diversity at March 14, 2013 05:16 PM (+bZOu)
Posted by: The Q at March 14, 2013 05:16 PM (yVmMc)
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at March 14, 2013 05:16 PM (CRDPR)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:16 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:16 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Temper Tantrum at March 14, 2013 05:16 PM (AWmfW)
"Can't sell that. People will not change their fundamental core just because you say "You're wrong.""
This, this, this X 10,000.
I nearly got shot @ another site for pointing out this obvious (well, should be) point - "against Obama/beating Obama" was a losing proposition from day one - give people something to be FOR and you'll go much, much further. (and no, I don't buy into the "media hates us" drivel. Go cry in your oatmeal, 'kay?)
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 05:17 PM (lbiWb)
Posted by: toby928© Crypto-Fashionist at March 14, 2013 05:17 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: teh Wind at March 14, 2013 05:17 PM (JIMJN)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:17 PM (HzhBE)
But we did inject enough doubt for Hitler to move two divisions (or
something) to Calais.
Are you sure about that? I've always read that Hitler was convinced it would be at Calais, and that's why he refused to release the Panzers that Rommel wanted, and which might actually have pushed the invasion back into the sea.
Posted by: pep at March 14, 2013 05:17 PM (6TB1Z)
Independent Women's Forum:
http://www.iwf.org/
Posted by: derit at March 14, 2013 05:17 PM (I88Jc)
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 14, 2013 05:16 PM (/kI1Q)
Heh. How you doin'?
Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 14, 2013 05:17 PM (8ZskC)
Well, a couple of ways.
First off, most people don't agree with those anyway- but they don't have anyone speaking to them.
But the real answer to the question is, as ace pointed out (after your question, and in reply to something else) we use the art of the con. (Which is actually just a well documented method of persuasion).
You start with a script like this (and I don't ask a yes/no question until you're on very, very safe ground):
"Hi, I'm with the [Generically, and safe-but-serious-sounding named organization], and we're having [Speaker] come on [Date]. Tell me, do you think it's time that [demographic] like [target] should have a greater say in [subject]? (at this point, they'll usually say "yes.") Great, me, too. And tell me, do you think that They have been ignoring [demographic] too long? (again: normally yes- though you may have to modify that question some). Hey, that's what we think, too. So why don't you come down on [date] and listen to what [speaker] has to say. There will be Q&A afterwords so you can have your own say, too."
That gets them in the door. Moreover, it will typically get them in the door with an open mind.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 05:17 PM (4OvDk)
I agree
CPAC: Is the ‘C-Word’ the Problem?
http://tinyurl.com/b6vsmhk
Posted by: kbdabear at March 14, 2013 05:17 PM (mCvL4)
Posted by: zsasz at March 14, 2013 05:17 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Jean at March 14, 2013 05:18 PM (VRCBg)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:14 PM (EweV2) :::
No, but that is definitely how my recruiter got his hooks into me. By the time he was done, he could have sold me a dose of the clap.
He ended up giving it to me for free, though.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 05:18 PM (CJjw5)
To add to the idea of disinformation, why not distribute a ton of flyers for:
Student Democrats will be hosting a dinner to discuss abstinence, sobriety, and repealing Roe v Wade, and other liberal causes.
Kids are stupid. We should take advantage of that fact.
Posted by: MJ at March 14, 2013 05:18 PM (vl5mg)
Posted by: Regular Moron at March 14, 2013 05:18 PM (feFL6)
Congrats, Allen. That was a thoughtful comment.
I had a comment promoted to a post, once. It was something about how
to get your wife to bang you when she's tired or not in the mood, or
something.
My agent's already been giving me the talk about typecasting. FML.
Enough with the emo "woe is me" crap. Make with the dick jokes.
Posted by: pep at March 14, 2013 05:18 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: pep at March 14, 2013 05:17 PM (6TB1Z)
You are correct. Look up "Fortitude South" and Juan Pujols, a spy codenamed "GARBO."
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:18 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: 554th! down there at March 14, 2013 05:18 PM (7iLfu)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 05:19 PM (ZshNr)
Posted by: zsasz at March 14, 2013 05:19 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:19 PM (HzhBE)
Just came in to repeat Mike the Moose
"Any organization not expressly constituted as conservative will become liberal over time."
And HeatherRadish, I think you nead a "sploosh" instead. YOu know. For the womyn.
Posted by: imp at March 14, 2013 05:19 PM (UaxA0)
Posted by: Ra's al Ghul at March 14, 2013 05:19 PM (yn6XZ)
Posted by: sven10077 at March 14, 2013 05:19 PM (0trJE)
Posted by: Waterhouse at March 14, 2013 05:19 PM (3zG7W)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:19 PM (EweV2)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:20 PM (XkWWK)
afficianados of The Finer Things In Life, we're not really giving them
our own Aspirational model. We're kind of just telling them "You're
wrong to want that."
Can't sell that. People will not change their fundamental core just because you say "You're wrong."
What I don't understand is why people should even be WRONG to want that. Who doesn't want to be smarter? More educated, competent?
It's a weird sort of reverse snobbery that denigrates people (even conservatives) who try to pitch their arguments on more intellectual levels. As if they should be ashamed to even be trying to compete on that plane.
We lose massive amounts of cultural cachet by conceding that area to the left. We're basically saying, by implication, that "liberalism is for smart educated people and conservatism is for more mediocre, salt-of-the-earth intellects." I know that's not the branding people WANT to think we're giving off...but it fucking is, and you only need to look at every single media representation of conservatives in the last forty years to realize this is the ghetto they've (more successfully now that WE have apparently given up on it too!) pushed us into.
This, incidentally, gets at the root of my problems with installing a person like Sarah Palin as the Avatar of Conservatism. Why do you think the left wanted her in that role so badly? Because they know something that her fans didn't perceive: that we get crushed nationally when that happens because her "brand" is Stupid, whether fair or not. (And you can't un-brand, so it's pointless to cry about how she ended up with that label or whether it was fair or not. It's fait accompli, and everything else is dicta.)
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 05:20 PM (/Rmj0)
EFA
---
edit.
But its already been taken...
http://economicfreedomalliance.org
:\
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 05:20 PM (UypUQ)
No.
Posted by: People's Front for Conservatism at March 14, 2013 05:14 PM (DsPRa)
Splitters!
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 05:20 PM (TIIx5)
Posted by: Mama AJ at March 14, 2013 05:21 PM (SUKHu)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:21 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: pep at March 14, 2013 05:18 PM (6TB1Z):::
Back to my oar, then.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 05:21 PM (CJjw5)
Posted by: thunderb at March 14, 2013 05:21 PM (Dnbau)
Posted by: Joe at March 14, 2013 05:21 PM (7pOq5)
The Erudite Utopian Society
or for short The EruditeOpian
ooooor the The EruditeOpium Society
Whatever like.... blows your skirt up man.
Posted by: Guido at March 14, 2013 05:21 PM (NQq8e)
Posted by: we can't say we are Americans anymore at March 14, 2013 05:21 PM (XYSwB)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 05:21 PM (9Bj8R)
You are conflating two Allied deception operations--Operation Mincemeat involved the floating corpse--supposedly indicating invasion of Greece and Sardinia and not the actual invasion spot which was Sicily. Operation Fortitude deceived Nazis regarding where invasion of Europe was involved. Fortitude was a huge operation even snagging Gen. Patton as the fictitious commander of a fake army.
See Bodyguard of Lies as a good description of Allied Deception in WWII.
Posted by: wg at March 14, 2013 05:21 PM (Nos+Z)
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at March 14, 2013 05:21 PM (CRDPR)
Posted by: imp at March 14, 2013 05:22 PM (UaxA0)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 05:22 PM (ZshNr)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:22 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: polynikes at March 14, 2013 05:22 PM (m2CN7)
Posted by: The Q at March 14, 2013 05:22 PM (yVmMc)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 05:22 PM (ZshNr)
LOL!
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:22 PM (XkWWK)
How do you make people be FOR something they don't want?
The thing I'm seeing is when we say "you should have an economy that
provides opportunities to succeed" and "we think you should be able to
keep the fruits of your labor" people hear "we're gonna make you work." How do you make that more appealing than "you should have more stuff, we'll take from those jerks and give it to you"?
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 14, 2013 05:22 PM (/kI1Q)
They call themselves progressives.
Posted by: we can't say we are Americans anymore at March 14, 2013 05:22 PM (XYSwB)
Posted by: John McCain's Desperation at March 14, 2013 05:22 PM (vbh31)
Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at March 14, 2013 05:23 PM (+I8Mq)
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 05:23 PM (TIIx5)
Posted by: zsasz at March 14, 2013 05:23 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 14, 2013 05:23 PM (pLvWv)
Posted by: John McCain's Desperation at March 14, 2013 05:23 PM (vbh31)
I think you think I'm targeting a different audience than I am. The true liberals are... well, liberal. You're unlikely to convince them (though staying non-adversarial is a good first step). I'm talking about the people who are still on the fence. Those "swing voters."
Right now, what they see are Liberals, Conservatives, and people who simply brand themselves as "For You" or "Experts." And those people who are "For You" or "Experts" just always seem to line up with the Liberals for some reason.
We need to get into that "For You" and "Expert" space.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 05:23 PM (4OvDk)
Posted by: pep at March 14, 2013 05:17 PM (6TB1Z)
I was just going to post that. Yep. That's the way I understand it, unless some recent scholarship has changed it all. The Calais Deception was very effective.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at March 14, 2013 05:23 PM (yLuBK)
I think every conservative invited onto a program to debate with a lefty should simply go ad hominem, all the time, until time is up.
Time to break out the George Costanza "Do the Opposite of What Your Instincts Tell You" strategy.
I mean, hell, by and large we in the conservative camp *are* better people (there are even reliable studies demonstrating that), and a huge percentage of lefties are objectively dedicated perverters of all that is true and good in so many aspects of their lives, but they get a pass on their ideology cred. As Spengler/David Goldman put it shortly before last November 6, "Now Can We Finally Impugn Obama's Character?".
Posted by: RamonAllones at March 14, 2013 05:23 PM (3lLli)
Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 14, 2013 05:23 PM (UCv7P)
Posted by: Ra's al Ghul at March 14, 2013 05:23 PM (yn6XZ)
Should draw an interesting crowd.
People For Bondage would draw an even more interesting crowd.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:23 PM (EweV2)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:24 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 14, 2013 05:24 PM (NJs1e)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 05:24 PM (CJjw5)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:24 PM (HzhBE)
I saw him, more than once, on a couple of tv panels as well as 'one on one,' insist on delaying things until everyone present understood that he "was a lot of things but he wasn't a 'conservative,'" before proceeding to demolish with a conservative argument whatever silliness was coming from the other side
Posted by: BuddyPC at March 14, 2013 05:24 PM (jfUIE)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:24 PM (EweV2)
People Enlightened by Natural Intellect Society?
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 14, 2013 05:24 PM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at March 14, 2013 05:25 PM (+I8Mq)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:24 PM (XkWWK)
-
We already have that, it is just nicknamed the teacher's union
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 14, 2013 05:25 PM (NJs1e)
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 05:25 PM (TIIx5)
Hitler thought his super-weapons would destroy all enemies of the Riech
Mussolini had a weenie, but it wouldn't work
Posted by: Jerry Jack in Jacksonville at March 14, 2013 05:25 PM (Dll6b)
Posted by: John McCain's Desperation at March 14, 2013 05:25 PM (vbh31)
Posted by: polynikes at March 14, 2013 05:25 PM (m2CN7)
Posted by: BuddyPC at March 14, 2013 05:25 PM (jfUIE)
Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at March 14, 2013 05:25 PM (+I8Mq)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:25 PM (HzhBE)
Ad hominem attacks won't work. Going far to the left of the left causes them to shut their cake holes when you point out their hypocrisy for disagreeing with their own position.
Works. Like. A. Charm. Every. Time!
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:25 PM (XkWWK)
Conservative Blonds and Gingers for the Promotion of Pron, Chicken and Limited Government
Posted by: thunderb at March 14, 2013 05:25 PM (Dnbau)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 05:26 PM (CJjw5)
Posted by: Buzzion at March 14, 2013 05:26 PM (P0ioy)
Posted by: maddogg at March 14, 2013 05:26 PM (OlN4e)
Posted by: Smokey the Voting Bear at March 14, 2013 05:26 PM (EweV2)
Posted by: John McCain's Desperation
Are you mad?
Such technology does not exist!
Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 14, 2013 05:26 PM (UCv7P)
Posted by: polynikes at March 14, 2013 05:26 PM (m2CN7)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:24 PM (XkWWK)
-
We already have that, it is just nicknamed the teacher's union
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 14, 2013 05:25 PM (NJs1e)
The Dept. of Redundancy Dept. demanded I use the name and what I also wrote as well, too, also.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:26 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at March 14, 2013 05:26 PM (+I8Mq)
Posted by: 554th! down there at March 14, 2013 05:18 PM (7iLfu)
------------------------------------------
Can't get anything to play for me today, butthe singer's name sounds like this might be the one I was trying to remember.
Posted by: Soona at March 14, 2013 05:26 PM (Nm/Lp)
Posted by: zsasz at March 14, 2013 05:27 PM (MMC8r)
40 So has the Boobeh Society been taken yet?
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:04 PM (IZIoZ)
Didn't we just give it a wordier title?
Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 14, 2013 05:27 PM (H2u3i)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:27 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at March 14, 2013 05:27 PM (+I8Mq)
Posted by: WalrusRex at March 14, 2013 05:27 PM (Hx5uv)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 14, 2013 05:28 PM (qNGSj)
Committee for the Liberation and Integration of Terrifying Organisms and their Rehabilitation Into Society.
We'll hit it fast, with a major, and I mean major, leaflet campaign.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 14, 2013 05:28 PM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 14, 2013 05:28 PM (pLvWv)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:28 PM (XkWWK)
There have been multiple comments on the blog here
that talk about forums about various subjects they used to read that
have turned into liberal cesspools. So is there a good way to avoid
this from happening?
Posted by: Buzzion at March 14, 2013 05:26 PM (P0ioy)
Set in the bylaws that meetings are not valid unless the Chair has a shovel and a bag of quicklime sitting next to the gavel.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 05:28 PM (TIIx5)
Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at March 14, 2013 05:28 PM (+I8Mq)
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at March 14, 2013 05:28 PM (dlAh+)
Posted by: zsasz at March 14, 2013 05:28 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: BuddyPC at March 14, 2013 05:24 PM (jfUIE)
Funny, how that always happens.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at March 14, 2013 05:28 PM (yLuBK)
Unless somebody has already taken it.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 14, 2013 05:28 PM (31Nrp)
defining an organization as conservative. That being "anything not
defined as conservative eventually becomes liberal?"
The answer is that it's not really an ironclad rule. It's just an observed outcome (and one that isn't always true, either). Institutions are kept with a certain ideological positioning and valence by the people who run them. Vigilance and smart staffing will always solve that problem.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 05:28 PM (/Rmj0)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 05:28 PM (ZshNr)
"Can't sell that. People will not change their fundamental core just because you say "You're wrong."
What I don't understand is why people should even be WRONG to want that. Who doesn't want to be smarter? More educated, competent"
But we on the right seem to be stuck on "wrong" - sadly. Oh, and your last para on Ms. Palin? Spot on perfect.
"Enough with the emo "woe is me" crap. Make with the dick jokes"
That's the crux of the whole thing, and maybe why Ace is pounding this topic so - here is a group of fairly Right Wing folks who can slice dice policy all day long and still throw down a dick joke or twelve - it's fun. Welcoming. In good cheer.
I promise that if the LIVs of the world were exposed to this they'd have a very different view of what "conservatism" means.
Or run screaming from their monitor...
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 05:29 PM (lbiWb)
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at March 14, 2013 05:29 PM (uhftQ)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:29 PM (EweV2)
People Who, You Know, Just Like Hanging Out And Having The Government Off Their Backs And Having Fun And Stuff
Posted by: fb at March 14, 2013 05:29 PM (JVEmw)
Posted by: Al at March 14, 2013 05:29 PM (V70Uh)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:29 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Lemmenkainen, Freelance Warlord at March 14, 2013 05:29 PM (ZWvOb)
There are two things which absolutely must happen to do this. First, the bylaws must be written to favor conservatives. You'd have to be fairly subtle, but it could (probably) be done.
Second (and this is really more important) you have to constantly recruit conservatives into the leadership roles of the organization. Every time you recruit someone, you should give them A Job (no: not a hand, or blow- some specific duty). This gets them involved with, and invested in, the group. Then you gradually give them more authority until the group you recruited is now the leaders. You graduate, but the group goes on.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 05:29 PM (4OvDk)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:29 PM (HzhBE)
The Sith Society but Darth Cheney has to be head honcho.
Posted by: YIKES! at March 14, 2013 05:29 PM (mETGQ)
Posted by: WalrusRex at March 14, 2013 05:29 PM (Hx5uv)
Posted by: fb going for the kill at March 14, 2013 05:29 PM (JVEmw)
Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at March 14, 2013 05:30 PM (+I8Mq)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:30 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 14, 2013 05:30 PM (qNGSj)
with not expressly defining an organization as conservative. That being
"anything not defined as conservative eventually becomes liberal?"
There have been multiple comments on the blog here that talk about
forums about various subjects they used to read that have turned into
liberal cesspools. So is there a good way to avoid this from
happening?
Posted by: Buzzion at March 14, 2013 05:26 PM (P0ioy)
Define the new groups as anti-progressive?
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 05:30 PM (UypUQ)
There have been multiple comments on the blog here
that talk about forums about various subjects they used to read that
have turned into liberal cesspools. So is there a good way to avoid
this from happening?
Nothing says serious like a M1928A1 Thompson Sub-Machinegun on the table.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at March 14, 2013 05:30 PM (yLuBK)
Posted by: @PurpAv at March 14, 2013 05:30 PM (/gHaE)
Posted by: fb going for the kill at March 14, 2013 05:30 PM (JVEmw)
Who doesn't want to be smarter? More educated, competent?
It's a
weird sort of reverse snobbery that denigrates people (even
conservatives) who try to pitch their arguments on more intellectual
levels. As if they should be ashamed to even be trying to compete on
that plane."
Congrats ace, you got Jeff B. validating you. Take this thread and the last and put it in context of the real world and it don't mean shit. We don't lose elections because we're turning off wannbe intellectuals. The whole culture has shifted and it ain't coming back. People want a big government, people want an entitlement government, people want a society of loose morals, etc. etc.
Emulate Chris Hayes and Rachael Maddox, don't use the word "conservative", good freak'n grief.
Posted by: lowandslow at March 14, 2013 05:30 PM (7Nq2G)
Posted by: maddogg at March 14, 2013 05:30 PM (OlN4e)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:30 PM (HzhBE)
Committee for the Liberation and Integration of Terrifying Organisms and their Rehabilitation Into Society.
I think this is what they mean by a "secret society", as in, it doesn't exist.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 05:31 PM (TIIx5)
I bet that would require an unusual initiation ceremony.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:31 PM (EweV2)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 14, 2013 05:31 PM (NJs1e)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:31 PM (XkWWK)
It's true, BUT the left perpetually claims the center and always tries to "frame" any opposive voice as being "far right," and since they have a *current* monopoly on campuses and in the MFM, anyone with different *ideas* still has to work past that framing and labeling.
So, yes, worthwhile strategy, but it's not going to "fool" anyone (yes I know deception is not the goal) because The Gatekeepers got where they are by claiming the Objective Middle Ground dishonestly, and they will fight like *hell* to keep anyone else from that ground.
And that process will involve labeling a "less partisan" group that promotes ideas over ideology as "far right."
I've often tried to lead people who are not committed leftists gradually to more reasonable positions only to discover they're "single issue voters" on some issue that keeps them in the D circle, which is non-negotiable. So they agree about ten other things, but still vote D.
All that being said, a more open conversation is always better, and if a "less partisan" labeling scheme helps that happen the more's the better. With the caveat stated many times above that if you *actually* have people involved who are "less partisan" or liberal, then the group will be overrun by them, because it's their nature.
Can still be productive. At least for a while.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 14, 2013 05:31 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: fb at March 14, 2013 05:31 PM (JVEmw)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 05:31 PM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer
***
We'll lick 'em yet!
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at March 14, 2013 05:31 PM (uhftQ)
Posted by: People's Front for Conservatism at March 14, 2013 05:31 PM (DsPRa)
Posted by: Al at March 14, 2013 05:32 PM (V70Uh)
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 05:32 PM (lbiWb)
The Foundation to Give Everyone Everything They Want.
That was actually an answer to a question by a 4th grader when asked "what should Prez Obama do to help people?" "Give everyone everything they want." Some other kid said first "give the homeless money" but that wasn't good enough I guess.
Posted by: Guido at March 14, 2013 05:32 PM (NQq8e)
"conservative." The "expert" is actually liberal but he insists on not being branded as such, so he becomes just "the expert."
--------------------------------------
Several years ago I saw Shelby Steele paired up with some douchewagon on some CNN-type cable news channel or another, and during the introductions the host (whoever it was) said something like, "Joining me now are Professor Douchewagon, from the (X) Center of (Y) Policy Advancement, and conservative author Shelby Steele...." At which point Shelby piped in and said, "Am I to assume that Professor Douchewagon is a political liberal?" Which somewhat stupefied the host, who said something like, "Why would you ask that?" So Shelby said, "Well, since I was readily identified as the conservative in this debate, I was confused as to why you didn't identify my counterpart's liberal credentials." It was BEAUTIFUL.
Posted by: Norman Bean at March 14, 2013 05:32 PM (sTS/8)
Posted by: YIKES! at March 14, 2013 05:32 PM (mETGQ)
Posted by: John McCain's Desperation at March 14, 2013 05:32 PM (vbh31)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:32 PM (EweV2)
Posted by: Pam Anderson's Right Nipple at March 14, 2013 05:32 PM (yn6XZ)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 14, 2013 05:32 PM (jucos)
Posted by: Al at March 14, 2013 05:33 PM (V70Uh)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:33 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 05:33 PM (xIzGn)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:31 PM (EweV2) :::
I'll get the ice cubes and licorice whips.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 05:33 PM (CJjw5)
forums about various subjects they used to read that have turned into
liberal cesspools. So is there a good way to avoid this from
happening?
I have personal experience with many forums (some that might well surprise you!) having begun as ultra-liberal, where I have actually managed to shift the balance of power far more towards the right just by being there to take on all comers -- not with snark or shouting, but with thought-out answers (and yes, a supercilious preening tone oftentimes...but then that's just me). What happens is that lurkers on the right suddenly begin to step forward and feel like they can speak out, because hey here's this prominent smart guy who's made being conservative Intellectually Respectable on the forum. Then people on the fence get pushed off onto our side, people start thinking "huh, there ARE thoughtful arguments to be made for the right," etc.
Andrew Jackson once said "one man with courage makes a majority." It isn't exactly true, and lord knows being a Proud Internet Commenter ain't exactly what I'd define as "courage," but the analogy still holds: be bold but respectful, take time to discuss, refute, and be good natured about it...and you'd be shocked what kinds of things you can shake up in pretty much any given forum. I once got nearly half the people in a news section of a Radiohead forum to vote for Bush over Kerry through sheer bloody-minded persistence.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 05:33 PM (/Rmj0)
On a related note, I've been of the belief that we are long overdue for an attack campaign to smear the "progressive" affiliation. That has been the boulder the left ran to after they finally learned the "liberal" label was too dangerous.
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 05:33 PM (UypUQ)
Ever been in Sales?Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 05:32 PM (lbiWb) Yes, but I'm an Engineer, and I have sold to other Engineers. Bullshit and lies are not welcomed. Nor is pointless gas.
Posted by: maddogg at March 14, 2013 05:33 PM (OlN4e)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 14, 2013 05:34 PM (NJs1e)
Posted by: kbdabear at March 14, 2013 05:17 PM (mCvL4)
----------------
I haven't read Simon's article yet but I'd have to say that the R word is more problematic than the C one. A majority of Americans still call themselves "conservative." Doesn't mean they really ARE, but.....
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 14, 2013 05:34 PM (C8mVl)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:34 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: People's Front for Conservatism at March 14, 2013 05:34 PM (DsPRa)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 14, 2013 05:34 PM (qNGSj)
Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 14, 2013 05:34 PM (UCv7P)
Then go build your fall-out shelter and start living in it.
Yeah, I despair that we're too far gone, too. But if we're not, the only way to get back to where we need to be is to fight for it. Right now we keep fighting with Marquis du Salisbury rules and our opponents keep kicking our asses with Marquis de Sade rules.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 05:34 PM (4OvDk)
But this is putting the cart before the horse: how will the branding matter if the announcer/writer introduces you as the 'conservative' Political Action Forum?
There's more to it than just the name, methinks. You need to pull some of Gary Johnson's tricks and push hard on issues left wingers typically think of as left wing but can be reconsidered from a right wing perspective. Drug enforcement is one of them; gay marriage can be worked this way, too. On the first, you may be simply ultimately against 4th amendment abuse by malevolent government narcs, you throw up a screen of being 'pro drug' when necessary. Likewise with gay marriage, you come across as being pro gay marriage, when in reality you're for letting the states decide the issue, and thus are not against it if a state decides to be for it. This is Robert E Lee level conservatism, "What's best for Virginia."
More ideas of that sort would be useful.
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 05:34 PM (El+h4)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:34 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Zombie Field Marshall Montgomery at March 14, 2013 05:34 PM (vbh31)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:34 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:29 PM (EweV2)
http://tinyurl.com/d3tz323
Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 14, 2013 05:35 PM (H2u3i)
Posted by: Whatev at March 14, 2013 05:35 PM (A7Wh1)
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer
***
We'll lick 'em yet!Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at March 14, 2013 05:31 PM (uhftQ)**************Can we change "Terrifying Organisms" to "Terrifying Orgasms"? Then I think we got it.
Posted by: Guido at March 14, 2013 05:35 PM (NQq8e)
Posted by: RamonAllones at March 14, 2013 05:35 PM (3lLli)
Which is why Ted Cruz is a hero.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:36 PM (EweV2)
Posted by: Rushbo at March 14, 2013 05:36 PM (yn6XZ)
Posted by: thunderb at March 14, 2013 05:36 PM (Dnbau)
Posted by: YIKES! at March 14, 2013 05:36 PM (mETGQ)
Okay, let's ignore the ad hominem (ZOMG JEFF B. AGREES WITH SOMETHING THAT MUST DELEGITIMIZE THE POINT...so what does that mean for conservative ideology, given that I subscribe to 99% of it?). Let's just address this: what is your actual point here? That's it pointless to attempt to sell conservative values and ideas on anything except a mindless "cultural identity" level? Or that we should give up on the republic entirely, and commit hara-kiri or consign ourselves to generations of darkness?
I don't get your point. It just seems like bilious anger.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 05:36 PM (/Rmj0)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:36 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 14, 2013 05:34 PM (qNGSj)
---
What do they call a Big Mac?
Posted by: Whatev at March 14, 2013 05:36 PM (A7Wh1)
"Yes, but I'm an Engineer, and I have sold to other Engineers"
Well, that's your first problem...
(kidding. Sort of)
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 05:36 PM (lbiWb)
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 05:36 PM (C0ttM)
Posted by: Buzzion at March 14, 2013 05:26 PM (P0ioy)
It all comes down to the people involved *not letting it happen*.
I mean, academia and the MFM didn't become leftist because of all the opposition, it was because people didn't want to make a fuss, chose other fields because it was too annoying, thought nothing would come of it, etc. Same thing happens online, Conservatives Want To Be Left Alone and Hate Fuss.
Bugging people and fussing apparently win - doesn't mean we have to be fussy and intrusive, but we *at least* need to point out when it's happening and oppose it.
People get all squirrelly about "rudeness," but when someone is trying to manipulate people and you point out specifically how they're doing it, that does at least sometimes get people thinking about intentions.
Other times they blame you for the problem. Not perfect.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 14, 2013 05:36 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: YIKES! at March 14, 2013 05:37 PM (mETGQ)
Posted by: Whatev at March 14, 2013 05:37 PM (A7Wh1)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:37 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 05:37 PM (El+h4)
Posted by: thunderb at March 14, 2013 05:37 PM (Dnbau)
Posted by: polynikes at March 14, 2013 05:38 PM (m2CN7)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:38 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:38 PM (EweV2)
Posted by: Dr. Mephesto at March 14, 2013 05:38 PM (yn6XZ)
"It just seems like bilious anger."
Probably is. OTOH, "Bilious Anger" would make a great name...
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 05:39 PM (lbiWb)
Posted by: Soona at March 14, 2013 05:39 PM (Nm/Lp)
300North American Marlon Brando Look-Alikes
.
Ding ding ding
Posted by: Dr. Mephesto at March 14, 2013 05:38 PM (yn6XZ)
Harry Reid sez "where's da butter?"
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:39 PM (XkWWK)
Ted Cruz and Rand Paul are heroes right now not just because they FIGHT, but because of the WAY they fight. It's not cultural-ID stuff. It's not anti-intellectual stuff. They get up there and make thoughtful, incisive, slashingly rational and logical arguments. They absolutely radiate intelligence and thoughtfulness, they don't come off as proud know-nothings.
Even the liberals were swooning about Rand Paul's filibuster, and you know one of their key refrains was? "My god, he spoke for 13 hours about substance. He didn't just read a phone book, he talked smartly about the issues."
THAT, I think is the real key to Paul's appeal right now. He isn't just a mindless "NO," he's a convincing, intellectually-pitched "FUCK NO." It's an approach that works!
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 05:39 PM (/Rmj0)
You can view some of the names of the "progressive" orgs, here:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=List_of_progressive_organizations
examples:
Children's Defense Fund
Women's Action for New Directions
Interfaith Alliance
Human Rights Campaign
Schumann Center for Media and Democracy
First Amendment Project
Center for Democracy and Technology
Center for Digital Democracy
Center for Social Media
America Coming Together
Music for America
League of Conservation Voters
League of Rural Voters
American Constitution Society
Women's Media Center
Women's International League for Peace and Freedom
Mothers Against Drunk Driving
etc
Posted by: branding at March 14, 2013 05:39 PM (XYSwB)
Posted by: newrouter at March 14, 2013 05:39 PM (kfeRL)
Posted by: The Little Dutch Boy at March 14, 2013 05:39 PM (vbh31)
Tonight, more shocking newsabout "The Open Ideas Society," the now-notoriousright wing front group that I first exposed last Christmas Eve...
Posted by: Rachel Maddow at March 14, 2013 05:39 PM (w41GQ)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:40 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 14, 2013 05:40 PM (HDgX3)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:40 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 14, 2013 05:40 PM (FsUAO)
Posted by: Whatev at March 14, 2013 05:36 PM (A7Wh1)
I'm just guessing, but the romanji equivalent would be something like "biggu makku."
I do know that they call him "Donald McDonald."
Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 14, 2013 05:40 PM (qNGSj)
Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 14, 2013 05:40 PM (UCv7P)
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 05:41 PM (El+h4)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:41 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Guido at March 14, 2013 05:41 PM (NQq8e)
I'm not and have never been a conservative, but I was once identified as one. At work. The identification was a rival's cunning revenge for my...not lying. Long story. I face-value followed a rule and didn't pretend that if I ignored it what I was really doing was being sophisticated about what rules are really all about, maaan. So she called me "a conservative," with that oh-shit-dude-she-called-you-a-conservative tone. You know the tone. Your TV has it. Realizing the danger, I made the "What the hell?" face, said no, and explained my rule-following to our superior (the audience for that identification) in purely work-related, rule-following, we-have-a-rule-or-we-don't terms.
And I was soon fired by that superior, for being "conservative." The word was used. I can, could, and always will be able to prove that I'm no such thing. (I'll fist you right now.) But in that situation, as in many, I didn't have a voice in the What I Am determination process.
So, call yourself whatever. They'll call you "conservative," and then you're fired. Because they're the boss of you (and often of me).
"So what do you suggest, Your Smugness?"
Nothing. It's both too late and too soon to do anything that'll work.
Breed, buy guns, be hard, be amused, hoard porn.
Posted by: oblig. at March 14, 2013 05:41 PM (cePv8)
Please see my comment at 193 and J.J. Sefton's reply at 213. I agree with you -- go ad hominem, all the time.
If we're confident in our policy stances, why can't we be confident that our stances are informed by morally correct perspective and living?
We should be.
And the corollary is confidence (usually validated by factual digging) that the other side is immorality all the way down.
Posted by: RamonAllones at March 14, 2013 05:41 PM (3lLli)
Posted by: GOP at March 14, 2013 05:41 PM (mETGQ)
Posted by: Ronster at March 14, 2013 05:41 PM (pDjY6)
Posted by: Tenderheart (ghey Care Bear) at March 14, 2013 05:41 PM (Bx3LA)
Posted by: The Little Dutch Boy at March 14, 2013 05:39 PM (vbh31)
There we go.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 14, 2013 05:42 PM (H2u3i)
Posted by: Norman Bean at March 14, 2013 05:42 PM (sTS/8)
Listening to Rick Perry's speech.
Man I wish he hadn't screwed the pooch in '12...
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 14, 2013 05:40 PM (FsUAO)
He must have done well...he's front and center at Drudge 'Perry Rocks The House'.
Posted by: Tami at March 14, 2013 05:42 PM (X6akg)
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 14, 2013 05:28 PM (/kI1Q)
Okay, so that's three Dwarfers...
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 14, 2013 05:43 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: The Little Dutch Boy at March 14, 2013 05:39 PM (vbh31)
There we go.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 14, 2013 05:42 PM (H2u3i)
Dick Van Dyke = rape.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:43 PM (XkWWK)
We're not talking about the media, here. That's a completely different game, let alone arena. Someone mentioned in the previous thread that people watching MSNBC or CNN or FOX have already made up their minds (mostly). The very fact they're watching that kind of programming means they're unlikely to be Low Info Voters.
I'm talking about college campus stuff. I'm talking about showing up at local festivals and having a booth. I'm talking about what used to be called "retail politics."
Eventually you may get asked on to MSNBC, but then you either refuse the invitation or have a rebuttal ready. Something like, "I'm sorry, Mr. Maddow, but I thought I heard you call my organization Conservative. My organization is strictly non-partisan. We do not donate to any candidate, party, or campaign, and everyone is expected to leave their politics at the door."
You even prove that- invite liberal speakers sometimes. Just don't go to the normal lengths to advertise that you do for the Conservative speakers.
Then you can say, "Just last week we hosted a forum with [Liberal speaker here] at [Campus]. We try to keep a balance between speakers, because we know the issues we discuss can easily become politicized."
We don't have to play fair. They aren't. Why should we?
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 05:43 PM (4OvDk)
Posted by: Guido at March 14, 2013 05:43 PM (NQq8e)
Posted by: newrouter at March 14, 2013 05:43 PM (kfeRL)
Kidding, of course. Sort of. Maybe. Heh.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 14, 2013 05:43 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:44 PM (XkWWK)
A Finger In The Dike.
We males already thoroughly discussed the attributes and our desires to have our way with that Ladies Professional Golfer for the past couple threads.
Posted by: Regular Moron at March 14, 2013 05:44 PM (feFL6)
Posted by: Mr. Hat at March 14, 2013 05:44 PM (yn6XZ)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:44 PM (HzhBE)
You guys are acting like we're gonna go door-to-do and sell our brand. That's not how this will work. Our marketing will be done through the medium of media.
The vehicle will be, for instance, a staged vignette.
Here's how you do it: You craft a dialogue between two or four people, choosing all the words very carefully.
The goal is to have your audience nodding along in agreement as your actors voice their concerns and opinions.
Sound familiar? It should; you've seen it a thousand times on television.
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 05:45 PM (KeJAW)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 14, 2013 05:45 PM (qNGSj)
Rick Perry's Cpac speech:
http://youtu.be/C8CTZ-YviaY
I still like him better than any of the other 'contenders' for 2016.
Posted by: wheatie at March 14, 2013 05:45 PM (2xMNt)
Posted by: Soona at March 14, 2013 05:45 PM (Nm/Lp)
Was out working.. stopped in to a store to go potty..
opened the bathroom door and BAM.. a black man, penis in hand looks at me and says .."Be out in a minute".
uh.. ever hear of locking the door?
Day got progressively worse from there.
Hows everyone?!
Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at March 14, 2013 05:45 PM (DGIjM)
It makes sense from the picture writing. He's eating the big mac, takes a sip of a martini, and waves goodbye. Obvious when you know what to look for.
Posted by: Whatev at March 14, 2013 05:45 PM (A7Wh1)
First the word gives an impression that people have lost power and then you tie it in to how to get it back.
Progressive left likes to lump evereyone into the one-fits-all category where they will need govt assistance. We should make a big deal about that not being the case and describe the society as it actually is. Some people will need a lot of assistance, some will need a little help to move up and those who need no help should be left alone.
We should keep stressing the natural human urge for upward mobility and that society's responsibility is to let that happen.
Posted by: Decaf at March 14, 2013 05:45 PM (aqwxP)
I think you can get them at Hawaiian McD's.
Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 14, 2013 05:45 PM (qNGSj)
Isn't Meghan McCain the pitch-bitch for that?
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:46 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Ben Lange at March 14, 2013 05:46 PM (rK8uk)
I do have an idea though. Imagine the confusions if we took back the term liberal.
Posted by: Nate in New Orleans at March 14, 2013 05:46 PM (lhX9P)
Posted by: Guido at March 14, 2013 05:47 PM (NQq8e)
Posted by: RamonAllones at March 14, 2013 05:47 PM (3lLli)
The first thing the MSM does is label you a front group for a) tea party, b) Republicans or c) evil racist conservatives.
The"League of Women Voters" is a democrat front group as is the "Vote at school" Bullshit.
Does that stop the MSM from giving them free time and legitimacy? NO.
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 14, 2013 05:47 PM (wR+pz)
Posted by: wheatie at March 14, 2013 05:45 PM (2xMNt
Same here. I still have my Rick Perry Bitches! bumper sticker.
Pain meds while debating are not your friend.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 14, 2013 05:47 PM (UOM48)
The whole idea is to go around the media and go grassroots to college campuses first.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:48 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:48 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Jean at March 14, 2013 05:48 PM (XwDPQ)
Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at March 14, 2013 05:48 PM (DGIjM)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 05:48 PM (ZshNr)
Posted by: imp at March 14, 2013 05:49 PM (UaxA0)
"Let's just address this: what is your actual point here?"
The point is, the right is drowning in self delusion. From our politicians to our media and punditry right down to the blogosphere. While talking about how we're going to shift public opinion and culture may be an interesting way to kill a few hours it doesn't change shit.
The inability for most of us to recognize the country we live in is staggering. After November it should have been obvious but it's right back to same old same old, if we just message better, if we just get the right candidate, if we just do this and just do that.
Posted by: lowandslow at March 14, 2013 05:49 PM (7Nq2G)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:50 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: RamonAllones at March 14, 2013 05:50 PM (3lLli)
Take Green issues. You could do a huge green thing from a conservative angle, but based all on the concept of self-limitation (and no gov't meddling.) My feeling is that if there will be successful Green movement it will be from the right, since sustainability can only be sustained by individual effort and discipline; self limitation and self discipline. The left is par excellence at wanting the results of these things without a person ever sweating blood over mastering themselves to achieve them.
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 05:50 PM (El+h4)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:51 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: maddogg at March 14, 2013 05:51 PM (OlN4e)
"The first thing the MSM does is label you a front group for a) tea party, b) Republicans or c) evil racist conservatives."
Hey Billy Bob, maybe we should try going in from behind. Unfortunately I agree with you. Thye would tack on ..."and also a..."
Media Whore Fuckers.
Posted by: Guido at March 14, 2013 05:52 PM (NQq8e)
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 05:52 PM (El+h4)
Upward mobility that I mentioned in my last comment is a concept that should be promoted as being able to move up if you work hard.
These concept resonate with everyone yet do not have a political signature.
Posted by: Decaf at March 14, 2013 05:52 PM (aqwxP)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 05:43 PM (4OvDk)
But if you are actually dishonest about your goals, They Will Call You On It and you will get a "reputation." And both at the campus level and the MFM level they will pound on that like a child who just discovered hammers.
Shit, look at what they do to decent people who are *not* even trying to trick them.
It is a long, hard slog, but you have to get onto a *relatively* level playing field before *some* trickery will work. And then, you shouldn't need it.
Besides, *massive* numbers of conservatives are offended by things that even *smell* dishonest. There's a strong strain of conservative LIV "they're all the same" types who will hold you to higher standards than the left, just like the left do.
We may both think they need to Get With The Survival Program, but that isn't going to change their minds.
They love when Cruz or Gingrich for for the throat, especially when it's exposing the dirty tricks.
Me, I'm all about pointing out to people how they're being manipulated. Makes the other guy look like an ass, makes the "victim" feel smarter because they just learned something.
Doesn't work 100% of the time, but when it does it's a double win.
And a lot more of it has to be done before we can even *have* an open conversation that isn't smothered with propaganda.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 14, 2013 05:53 PM (bxiXv)
I was just thinking yesterday, as I so often have, that the right needs to create and support a *responsible* non-leftist green organization that flags *real* environmental abuses, and dispels myths about made-up ones.
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2013 05:54 PM (LCRYB)
low and slow,
Wither we convince the populace to take a better direction or we forcefully take that direction ourselves in a real way. I'm going to try to persuade first.
Reading Common Sense, it's the same as it was then. The eyes must be opened that the current state of affairs is unacceptable. That will only happen when services collapse and taxes skyrocket due to pension burdens. At best.
Posted by: imp at March 14, 2013 05:54 PM (UaxA0)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:01 PM (HzhBE)
-----------------
115
Hint: You use their brand against them.
For instance, you ask people if they like paying for other people's wireless phones.
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 05:14 PM (yhYn1)
Late to the party, but I like Warden's idea.
It forces the (clueless) left to defend their ideas, which plays directly into soothsayer's contribution.
Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at March 14, 2013 05:56 PM (Qxe/p)
So basically you've come in here to haughtily give us all the Counsel Of Despair: "don't bother trying to change things, we're all fucked. Here's a gun, end this tragic life now."
In that case, congratulations: you've made your stupidly fatalistic point. So what do you want to do now, stick around to sit up on your perch and tell us all how stupid we are for trying to think about how we can do things to save our country? That we should all just give up?
I think you'll find that we're not really interested in listening to your bullshit, in that case. Furthermore, once you've made your point once, what else is there to say? And why berate us for feeling different, if not to emphasize how morally/intellectually superior you must be for "realizing the truth" as opposed to all of us sad, lost souls?
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 05:57 PM (/Rmj0)
Posted by: RoyalOil at March 14, 2013 05:58 PM (VjL9S)
Sound familiar? It should; you've seen it a thousand times on television.
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 05:45 PM (KeJAW)
Kinda like The View but making the low info voter think a little bit more.
Posted by: GOP at March 14, 2013 05:58 PM (mETGQ)
Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 14, 2013 06:02 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Joe Biden at March 14, 2013 06:02 PM (2jQGY)
We don't have the power or numbers to persuade anymore, that the point. I'm sure the are literally hundreds of thousands of people a hell of a lot more conservative then you and I living in European nations but they don't spend every moment fantasing they're just one election away from changing anything. Maybe it's because it feels like conservatism fell out of favor here very quickly that people can't accept it, but it really has been happening over the past half decade.
Posted by: lowandslow at March 14, 2013 06:03 PM (7Nq2G)
I'm sure the are literally hundreds of thousands of people a hell of a
lot more conservative then you and I living in European nations but they
don't spend every moment fantasing they're just one election away from
changing anything. Maybe it's because it feels like conservatism fell
out of favor here very quickly that people can't accept it, but it
really has been happening over the past half decade.
Fine. I hope you've enjoyed your time on this site then. Be sure to leave some food and water out for the dog when you turn the car engine on in your garage, BTW.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 06:04 PM (/Rmj0)
"This is a hobbyhorse of mine. The left never brands itself as the Left or Liberal, does it? No, they brand themselves for everyone. We need to start doing that."
Hm.
No argument as to inclusion and coalitions making a larger impact than various factions' individual and uncoordinated efforts.
But then, every time you assign a tinfoil hat, offended by a conservative of a more [fill in the blank] streak than you'd rather defend, you've killed your hobbyhorse. Again.
As the Leftists brutally charge full steam ahead, have they coded lefty grassroots factions from within strung by uniforms like tinfoil hats and defeatist labels?
Posted by: William Wallace at March 14, 2013 06:05 PM (MhA4j)
You have to have a name that doesn't sound too appealing to the Left, else they will "flash mob" you out of the group.
The name has to sound neutral, with ideals that the Left claims to have but is really uncomfortable with actually adopting.
Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 14, 2013 06:06 PM (e8kgV)
I'm not living in despair, I know exactly what kind of country I live in and make the best of it. It's those that live in some fantasy world where they think conservatism is just in a slump that living in desperation.
Posted by: lowandslow at March 14, 2013 06:07 PM (7Nq2G)
leave some food and water out for the dog when you turn the car engine
on in your garage, BTW."
Gee Jeff B., you're never going to pass yourself off as an intellectual with that horseshit. You better start working on faking a better argument then that.
Posted by: lowandslow at March 14, 2013 06:10 PM (7Nq2G)
Posted by: 'Ette in training at March 14, 2013 06:22 PM (zvxqj)
Posted by: Hanoverfist at March 14, 2013 06:26 PM (HiKk0)
Posted by: Ken in NH at March 14, 2013 06:29 PM (N9thc)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 06:36 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: BigBoy at March 14, 2013 07:38 PM (EgHYq)
Posted by: _Dave_ at March 14, 2013 07:45 PM (J+Q+d)
I agree 100% we need to eschew the conservative label, mainly because it's BS. Guys like Limbaugh, MalcolmForbes, MarcoRubio, Janine Turner, Glenn Beck, et al are NOT "Conservatives" but actually normal enthusiastic, success-oriented CAN-DO AMERICANS that The Left has freakified into an exotic alien minority species. I doubt 1 person in 20 here at AoS is a true conservative, we're all just "normals" who've had the whole map of reality wrenched & twisted onus so badly that we grabbed onto a "philosophy" as the only thing that cd explain/defend against the evil assaults that we suffer every single day. EsPECIALLY in Massachusetts.
Posted by: JewishOdysseus at March 14, 2013 08:02 PM (FWwQD)
Posted by: Becky at March 14, 2013 11:49 PM (Xqyhu)
This is exactly what I have been arguing with conservative friends about. They think we can just preach our principles more robustly next election cycle and the people will listen. That isn't going to happen. You don't educate brainwashed people. We can turn this around but we have to take our culture back through the media and pop culture and that will take a couple generations of subversive activity like community organizing. That is how liberals took this country. That is how we will take it back. Like it or not, the majority of the electorate are sheep.
......wewon't need to feel guilty about it because at least what we will be telling our youth is honest
.
Posted by: Trapperguy at March 15, 2013 01:07 AM (HP4bk)
We, as CONSERVATIVES, hail from a time and place where you first declared publicly who you are and what you stand for. Then you make your case and as part of your pitch you solicit support and try to indentify new people who might be interested in learning more.
They, the progs, lead with the promises and snake oil selling in the belief that once they have you on the benefit I.V., you will vote and march and do as they want you to do. At least you won't go running off to the other side. Equally important, we now have to approach you FROM THE OUTSIDE!
I agree, they've taken over the default position with the people by and large. However, I don't want just anyone joining the fray. Only 13% of the voting public actually voted in the last general. L'il barry's winning spread was less than 3% of that. Can you spell voter fraud? Yes, yes you can.
My stance today is we have a moral imperative to help the 4 million that stayed home get to a poll and begin to turn the tide in OUR COUNTRY.
Posted by: Blacksmith8 at March 15, 2013 06:33 AM (Yzu6e)
Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at March 15, 2013 11:55 PM (g5wi5)
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NYT Headlines Spinning Bush's Jobs Boom
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All-Time Best NBA Players, According to Senator Robert Byrd
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Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)