Mark Steyn on Newtown and Calls for Gun Bans

Hello! And Merry Christmas' Eve!

You've probably read this but I'm behind on everything and besides I've wanted to write about a point made in it.

Since the humiliations of November, the Right no longer has any hot brands, so this time round the biens pensants have fallen back on "gun culture." Dimwit hacks bandy terms like "assault weapon," "assault rifle," "semi-automatic" and "automatic weapon" in endlessly interchangeable but ever more terrifying accumulations of high-tech state-of-the-art killing power. As the comedian Andy Borowitz tweeted, "When the 2nd Amendment was written the most lethal gun available was the musket."
Actually, the semiautomatic is a 19th century technology, first produced in 1885. That's just under half-a-century after the death of Madison, the Second Amendment's author, and rather nearer to the Founding Fathers' time than our own. And the founders were under fewer illusions about the fragility of society than Hollywood funnymen: on July 25, 1764, four Lenape Indians walked into a one-room schoolhouse in colonial Pennsylvania and killed Enoch Brown and ten of his pupils. One child survived, scalped and demented to the end of his days.
Nor am I persuaded by the Right's emphasis on pre-emptive mental-health care. It's true that, if your first reaction on hearing breaking news of this kind is to assume the perpetrator is a male dweeb in his early twenties with poor socialization skills, you're unlikely to be wrong. But, in a society with ever fewer behavioral norms, who's to say what's odd? On 9/11, the agent at the check-in desk reckoned Mohammed Atta and his chums were a bit strange but banished the thought as shameful and discriminatory. In a politically correct world, vigilance is a fool's errand. The US Airways cabin crew who got the "flying imams" bounced from a Minneapolis plane for flamboyantly, intimidatingly wacky behavior (praying loudly, fanning out to occupy all the exit rows, asking for seatbelt extenders they didn't need) wound up in sensitivity-training hell. If a lesbian thinks dragging your wife around in a head-to-toe body-bag is kinda weird, she's being "Islamophobic." If a Muslim thinks taking breast hormones and amputating your penis is a little off, he's "transphobic." These very terms make the point that, in our society, finding somebody else odd is itself a form of mental illness. In an unmoored age, what's not odd? Once upon a time, TV viewers from distant states descending on a Connecticut town to attend multiple funerals of children they don't know might have struck some of us as, at best, unseemly and, at worst, deeply creepy – a Feast of the Holy Innocents, so to speak.
OK, what about restricting it to wishing murderous ill upon someone? In her own response to the Sandy Hook slaughter, the novelist Joyce Carol Oates tweeted that hopes for gun control would be greatly advanced "if sizable numbers of NRA members become gun-victims." Who's to know when violent fantasies on social media prefigure a loner getting ready to mow down the kindergarten or just a critically acclaimed liberal novelist amusing her friends before the PEN Awards cocktail party?

On this last point, something occurred to me. It's obvious, I guess, but worth noting anyway.

As the State creates more prohibitions and steals more freedoms, it experiences an unavoidable problem: Those who administer or at least vigorously support the Prohibitive State discover that the laws they wish to inflict on others are uncomfortable straitjackets on themselves.

For example, this statement by Joyce Carol Oates. I take it as a given that Ms. Oates would strongly urge the State to investigate, harass, and imprison anyone on the detestable right making a similar statement about who on the left should be killed by gun violence. And yet, as Steyn notes, we all understand -- even those of us who oppose the socialist project -- that Ms. Oates is to be excepted from the sort of controlling regime she favors.

Rosie O'Donnell's bodyguards can carry handguns, for example. She's Important; it is therefore Important that her life should be protected, by use of a gun's deadly force, should it come to that.

The number of celebrities and powerful people who have either paid armed guards or who have a gun themselves (gotta protect yourself from a stalker) is fairly large.

Which brings me to my point: As the State increases in its ambition to Decide for us, those at the top of the control structure naturally look to excuse themselves from the blessings of Government Surveillance and Prohibition they would so generously grant to us all. And more and more what should be a liberal governance (old meaning of liberal) becomes a decidedly illiberal one, one in which Actions are not paramount, but Status.

Rosie O'Donnell can agitate for all the gun bans she likes -- she knows she'll never actually have to live under them. Her Status will make an exception for her. It is the lesser citizens of the lower castes to whom these laws will apply.

And Joyce Carol Oates? Well, a no-account Tea Partier who incited violence should surely be locked up for breaking some law or another (as the Egyptian filmmaker was). But Joyce Carol Oates has High Status in the regime -- those who administer the State are friends with people who are friends with Oates -- and so she will be excused from such persecutions.

A liberal governance -- again, I mean it in the old way -- takes each man as equal and judges his actions only. But a government determined to make decisions for everyone and criminalize anything that it doesn't actually mandate must begin making these determinations based on Status, because it's the people with Status who have the ear of officials or friends in the media.

And so we start finding ourselves becoming more like the Soviets we thought we defeated, with classes afforded greater or lesser privileges depending on how close they might be to Government Power.

Posted by: Ace at 12:38 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Celebrating his triumphant return....Ace! With the DP.

Errr....double post.

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at December 24, 2012 12:40 PM (NF2Bf)

2 Stomping his own post

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at December 24, 2012 12:43 PM (R8hU8)

3 These people all believe they will be the nomenclatura. And they're probably right.

Posted by: Steve Skubinna at December 24, 2012 12:43 PM (HoGA+)

4 There will be dachas.

Posted by: eleven at December 24, 2012 12:43 PM (KXm42)

5 Forth!

Posted by: eleven at December 24, 2012 12:43 PM (KXm42)

6 Ahh, now it's back to normal. Things were getting too tidy round hea'.

Posted by: KG at December 24, 2012 12:44 PM (p7BzH)

7 Is this a double post? Is this the good one or the bad one?

Where am I?

Posted by: eleven at December 24, 2012 12:44 PM (KXm42)

8 Hey, can you open comments on the duplicate post, I want to be first over there.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 24, 2012 12:44 PM (wYVte)

9 And Joyce carol oates is an untalented ugly hack who should be banned from exercising her first amendment rights .

For the children ....

Posted by: awkward davies at December 24, 2012 12:45 PM (USjX1)

10 Rosie O'Donnell does remind me of a pig who thinks she's more equal than others.

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at December 24, 2012 12:45 PM (NF2Bf)

11 Well mass death in the name of 'progress' is a time honored tradition among the left.
They not only wish mass-death upon those who disapprove, but they revel in the death of victims, stepping upon their graves to advance their politics.

Posted by: pat at December 24, 2012 12:45 PM (vY2MW)

12 That's the most insufferable quality among liberals; there self righteous belief that they know how everyone should live. This is in spite of all evidence that their ideas don't work.

Posted by: UGAdawg at December 24, 2012 12:46 PM (WYOrt)

13 10
Rosie O'Donnell does remind me of a pig who thinks she's more equal squeal than others.

Posted by: pat at December 24, 2012 12:46 PM (vY2MW)

14 Is it properto enter all comments on both threads?

Posted by: RioBravo at December 24, 2012 12:47 PM (yaton)

15 Shit not that squeal like a pig thing again

Posted by: Nex Beatty at December 24, 2012 12:49 PM (IxprO)

16 Posted by: UGAdawg at December 24, 2012 12:46 PM (WYOrt)

Worse than that, they KNOW their shit doesn't work. Why? Because of the point Ace was making, that they carve exemptions for themselves.

If their ideas were so great, why don't they want to actually live under them?

Posted by: KG at December 24, 2012 12:49 PM (p7BzH)

17 Bet Ned Beatty wishes he'd had a gun .

Posted by: awkward davies at December 24, 2012 12:50 PM (USjX1)

18 If their ideas were so great, why don't they want to actually live under them?

Obamacare for Congress anyone? rather makes it plain that all these restrictions are for 'we the rabble', doesn't it?

Posted by: Retread at December 24, 2012 12:51 PM (zxitI)

19 Actually, when the 2nd Amendment was written, the most powerful weapon a Citizen could own was a warship, the most lethal killing machine that could be produced. Artillery was freely available to Citizens until the Gun Control Act of 1968. Somehow, I don't recall reading of stories where crimes were committed with howitzers and mortars.

Posted by: Mannie at December 24, 2012 12:52 PM (QY3oj)

20 Ace? Who is this Ace person?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:52 PM (79ueO)

21
Bet Ned Beatty wishes he'd had a gun .

You know that's right.

Posted by: eleven at December 24, 2012 12:53 PM (KXm42)

22 Bet Ned Beatty wishes he'd had a gun .
Posted by: awkward davies at December 24, 2012 12:50 PM (USjX1)

Or the runs?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:53 PM (79ueO)

23 I poked my head out of the kitchen for a peak at AoSHQ and Ace is here!
Welcome back & Merry Christmas!!!

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at December 24, 2012 12:53 PM (53riN)

24 I am rather enjoying the Left's emotional overreach. Their mask slipped.

Instead of banning guns they will now get armed guards in schools. Instead of gaining the upper hand their hypocrisy is their achilles heel. Use it against them, mercilessly.

Posted by: Enoch Brown at December 24, 2012 12:53 PM (WcR8U)

25 Being a liberal has its privileges, that amongst these are life, liberty and seven steroid boys that got yer back.

Posted by: badanov at December 24, 2012 12:54 PM (L8Tmq)

26

Ace, where's your annual Christmas Yule Log?

Posted by: soothsayer at December 24, 2012 12:54 PM (Fely/)

27 There is a simpler explanation Ace. The Natural government of Humanity is Monarchy/Aristocracy. (It is instinctive to the human pecking order.)

These people (such as Rosie) view themselves as the Aristocratic members of society, so naturally they don't believe the rules should apply to them because of their special status. Of COURSE they think all the rules should apply to the peasantry.

In 1776, this nation created a new form of government which supplanted the Historic Monarchy/Aristocracy. Ever since then, those people who would prefer the older form of government have been trying to re-instate it. Communism is just another form of Monarchy/Aristocracy. (Premier is King, and Party Apparats are Aristocracy. Everyone else is peasants.)

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:54 PM (bb5+k)

28 All I want for Christmas is a double post.

Posted by: eleven at December 24, 2012 12:54 PM (KXm42)

29 First post back and he stops the hell outa Andy. That's our Ace.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 24, 2012 12:54 PM (GEICT)

30 Merry Christmas Ace!

Welcome back!

Screw Joyce Carol Oates!

Posted by: Kensington at December 24, 2012 12:55 PM (uaEZS)

31 Screw Joyce Carol Oates!

With a name like that you just know it's a head tilter.

Posted by: eleven at December 24, 2012 12:56 PM (KXm42)

32 You know even if "liberals with status" are not exempted from the rules they wish to impose on the "common man" its not going to matter. They just won't follow the rules, and will expect others to cover for them or just getting slaps on the wrist. You know just like all the ones with drug habits do.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 12:58 PM (GULKT)

33 You have touched on these themes many, many times. Most notably, IMO, in your essay of some years back entitled "The New Feudalism" to which I link here.

http://minx.cc/?post=311630

Posted by: Truman North (D) at December 24, 2012 12:58 PM (I2LwF)

34 So?

Posted by: Roman Polanski at December 24, 2012 12:58 PM (AWmfW)

35 "In 1776, this nation created a new form of government which supplanted
the Historic Monarchy/Aristocracy. Ever since then, those people who
would prefer the older form of government have been trying to re-instate
it. Communism is just another form of Monarchy/Aristocracy. (Premier is
King, and Party Apparats are Aristocracy. Everyone else is peasants.) "

And the only way you will prevent it from happening is to use the same tactic as 1776.

Posted by: SDN at December 24, 2012 12:59 PM (g+FJ5)

36 " But Joyce Carol Oates has High Status in the regime -- those who
administer the State are friends with people who are friends with Oates
-- and so she will be excused from such persecutions."

Hmmm, just like Roman Polanski's friends hectored for him in public for treatment an ordinary statuatory rapist wouldn't receive. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others!

Posted by: Buck O'Fama at December 24, 2012 12:59 PM (6jgPy)

37 As soon as I saw the double post, I knew it was time to say, "Merry Christmas, ACE!!!"

Posted by: Quint&Jessel, Sea of Bly, Azof, UK at December 24, 2012 12:59 PM (7v5Ct)

38 They just won't follow the rules, and will expect others to cover for them or just getting slaps on the wrist. You know just like all the ones with drug habits do.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 12:58 PM (GULKT)

That is truly galling, and if there's one thing all those Republican state governments need to do it's enforce the damn laws on such people.

Posted by: KG at December 24, 2012 01:00 PM (p7BzH)

39 Welcome back Ace.
I hope you went somewhere fun or exotic.
Merry Christmas.

Posted by: Sassy at December 24, 2012 01:00 PM (DNOOe)

40 Hi Ace, I hope you have a merry Christmas.

Those who exempt themselves from the totalitarian laws that they would have us live under have a name.

Target.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 24, 2012 01:02 PM (3Y7RV)

41 You have touched on these themes many, many times.
Most notably, IMO, in your essay of some years back entitled "The New
Feudalism" to which I link here.

http://minx.cc/?post=311630

Posted by: Truman North (D) at December 24, 2012 12:58 PM (I2LwF)

"The New Feudalism." That is it in a nutshell.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:02 PM (bb5+k)

42 "...the novelist Joyce Carol Oates tweeted that hopes for gun control would
be greatly advanced 'if sizable numbers of NRA members become
gun-victims.'"

Less likely than non-NRA members becoming so because the NRA members are MORE LIKELY TO HAVE GUNS. What a moron.

Posted by: Buck O'Fama at December 24, 2012 01:03 PM (6jgPy)

43 Actually, when the 2nd Amendment was written, the most powerful weapon a
Citizen could own was a warship, the most lethal killing machine that
could be produced.

pffffft. They never met Thomas Jefferson after he ate a burrito.

Posted by: John Adams at December 24, 2012 01:03 PM (6TB1Z)

44 I'm gonna solve my problem by paddling my small arsenal out to the middle of the pond in a canoe and pitch 'em all overboard.

So far as you know.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 24, 2012 01:03 PM (4Mv1T)

45 Also, what the fuck is "ace" doing on CharlieBrownsDildo's blog?

Posted by: Truman North (D) at December 24, 2012 01:03 PM (I2LwF)

46 Governments, primarily leftist governments, murdered 262 million people in the 20th century.
.
We need to take their death threats and death wishes seriously.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at December 24, 2012 01:04 PM (YZizW)

47 Also, what the fuck is "ace" doing on CharlieBrownsDildo's blog?
Posted by: Truman North (D) at December 24, 2012 01:03 PM (I2LwF)

LOL, CBD allows guests.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 24, 2012 01:04 PM (3Y7RV)

48 Hello, ace! Merry Christmas Eve! I hope you're enjoying your much deserved break.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 24, 2012 01:05 PM (4df7R)

49 Welcome back ace and Merry Christmas everyone.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at December 24, 2012 01:05 PM (jucos)

50 We need to take their death threats and death wishes seriously.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at December 24, 2012 01:04 PM (YZizW)

Three years production of 30 round AR magazines sold in three days? Yep, I think they are taking it seriously.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 24, 2012 01:06 PM (3Y7RV)

51
And so we start finding ourselves becoming more like the Soviets we thought we defeated, with classes afforded greater or lesser privileges depending on how close they might be to Government Power.

Or, as the old saying goes, "Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others."

Welcome to the United States circa the 2000s AD.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 24, 2012 01:06 PM (4df7R)

52 Ever hear the comment? We are all equal, however some are more equal than others."

Posted by: attagirl at December 24, 2012 01:06 PM (Oa+jZ)

53 And the only way you will prevent it from happening is to use the same tactic as 1776.

Posted by: SDN at December 24, 2012 12:59 PM (g+FJ5)

I've been thinking this for quite some time, but I have lately been thinking it is not so simple. Technology has given those who would rule us superiority advantages that are a-historical. The Army of the United States can defeat any number of infantrymen. I doubt any sort of military-like resistance will be successful.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:06 PM (bb5+k)

54 I have a lib in my church. You know the type. Bumper stickers all over his Prius. "Jesus was a community organizer". "Pontius Pilate was a governor". Deep stuff like that. Anyway, he's always walking around with his nose in the air and telling everyone else why they're wrong. The irritation he causes detracts from the churchgoing experience. I don't think God approves of thoughts of beatings being administered during the service.

I am a sinner.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 01:06 PM (6TB1Z)

55 In Soviet America, some citizens are more equal than others.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 24, 2012 01:06 PM (QKKT0)

56
52 Ever hear the comment? We are all equal, however some are more equal than others."
Posted by: attagirl at December 24, 2012 01:06 PM (Oa+jZ)

Yep like 2 seconds before I read your comment

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 01:07 PM (GULKT)

57 I doubt any sort of military-like resistance will be successful.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:06 PM (bb5+k)

Oh, I don't know about that.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 24, 2012 01:07 PM (3Y7RV)

58

Screw Joyce Carol Oates!
Posted by: Kensington at December 24, 2012 12:55 PM (uaEZS)

You might re-think that when you see a photo. Twitchy might still have it.

Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at December 24, 2012 01:08 PM (Su0W2)

59 Someone above mentioned Congress being exempt from Ogabecare. Since Congress Critters are subject to the same taxation rules as the serfs, and Ogabecare is now a tax could Ogabecare be challenged in court on the grounds of unequal protection or something like that?

Posted by: Ammo Dump at December 24, 2012 01:09 PM (YYyqq)

60 The Army of the United States can defeat any number of infantrymen. I
doubt any sort of military-like resistance will be successful.

In any case, I seriously doubt they'd be on Barry's side.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 01:09 PM (6TB1Z)

61
/enter Yakov Smirnoff

Posted by: soothsayer at December 24, 2012 01:09 PM (FC8Yl)

62
"In her own response to the Sandy Hook slaughter, the novelist Joyce
Carol Oates tweeted that hopes for gun control would be greatly advanced 'if sizable numbers of NRA members become gun-victims.'"

I welcome her to try.

Posted by: RayJ at December 24, 2012 01:09 PM (LYiL5)

63 Governments, primarily leftist governments, murdered 262 million people in the 20th century.

.

We need to take their death threats and death wishes seriously.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at December 24, 2012 01:04 PM (YZizW)

For years I have thought that Democrat polices will eventually lead to massive death, and I found it hard to believe that they could be so stupid. Nowadays I believe that they have always regarded this as a feature, not a bug.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:09 PM (bb5+k)

64 In any case, I seriously doubt they'd be on Barry's side.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 01:09 PM (6TB1Z)

A certain percentage of them will, the question is exactly who and how many.

Posted by: KG at December 24, 2012 01:10 PM (p7BzH)

65 A certain percentage of them will, the question is exactly who and how many.

My guess is a fraction of the more political brass, and nobody else.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 01:11 PM (6TB1Z)

66 I've been thinking this for quite some time, but I have lately been thinking it is not so simple. Technology has given those who would rule us superiority advantages that are a-historical. The Army of the United States can defeat any number of infantrymen. I doubt any sort of military-like resistance will be successful.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:06 PM (bb5+k)

Because there would certainly be no defections of the military as they are ordered to fight and kill their countrymen. Afterall, our military is just like the Chinese or the Iranian military right? And they just robotically follow orders.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 01:11 PM (GULKT)

67 54 I have a lib in my church. You know the type. Bumper stickers all over his Prius. "Jesus was a community organizer". "Pontius Pilate was a governor". Deep stuff like that. Anyway, he's always walking around with his nose in the air and telling everyone else why they're wrong. The irritation he causes detracts from the churchgoing experience. I don't think God approves of thoughts of beatings being administered during the service.

I am a sinner.
Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 01:06 PM
______________________-
You could have someone not in your church decorate his car during service...you know like they do at weddings....only you could put on his car something like: Gun Free Zone, Flaming Liberal...streamers, cans etc. or whatever you think might be appropriate.

Posted by: John Stark Dark of the NH Starks at December 24, 2012 01:11 PM (0JB89)

68 It is well past time for honest men to become dishonest in the eyes of our government, deciding for his own conscience which laws are just. This current government now only benefits dishonest men, and we do ourselves no favors in supporting it.

Posted by: RoyalOil at December 24, 2012 01:11 PM (imtbm)

69 You might re-think that when you see a photo. Twitchy might still have it.
Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at December 24, 2012 01:08 PM (Su0W2)

No, please don't. Save your eyes. There are wilder skies than these.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 24, 2012 01:11 PM (4df7R)

70 In any case, I seriously doubt they'd be on Barry's side.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 01:09 PM (6TB1Z)

A certain percentage of them will, the question is exactly who and how many.
Posted by: KG at December 24, 2012 01:10 PM (p7BzH)
---------------------------------------------------
The civil war will be fought amongst the military first. The small percentage who are for Barry won't last.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at December 24, 2012 01:12 PM (jucos)

71 I read a Joyce Carol Oates novel about twenty years, a putrid POS called "Cybele" about a man obsessed with an underage girl. All the right people thought it was OH SO DARING.

It was the worst sort of pretentious typing, really.

Posted by: Kensington at December 24, 2012 01:12 PM (uaEZS)

72 I've been thinking this for quite some time, but I have lately been thinking it is not so simple. Technology has given those who would rule us superiority advantages that are a-historical. The Army of the United States can defeat any number of infantrymen. I doubt any sort of military-like resistance will be successful.

I have, too.

For years and years, the Soviet Union was a third-world shithole with a first-world military. But at some point, they could no longer afford it.

So it will be here.

The time for vigilance will be when things really do fall apart and then come back together again. The fundamental character of the American people will, in some areas, allow us to regain some semblance of liberty.

In other areas, there's really no hope.

Plan to be in an area of the former variety rather than the latter when the time comes-- and it is coming, i believe, sooner than any of us think.

Posted by: Truman North (D) at December 24, 2012 01:12 PM (I2LwF)

73 It's been recommended here before, but if you haven't seen it, check out The Lives of Others. It's a nice dirty look at the reality of communist "egalitarianism" in 1980s East Germany. I'd like to force every authoritarian leftist to sit through it, then explain why they want that here in the U.S.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 24, 2012 01:12 PM (QKKT0)

74 >>And so we start finding ourselves becoming more like the Soviets we
thought we defeated, with classes afforded greater or lesser privileges
depending on how close they might be to Government Power.

That's an odd coincidence, that has absolutely nothing to do with this Obama fellow, his background, his family and acquaintances or the circumstances of his birth records.

There is also no connection to the Fiscal Cliff, Coward/Piven or The Frankfurt School's Long March through the institutions.

Any mention of these questions only discredits our side and puts us in a bad bargaining position for future concessions from The SCOAMF.

BTW, Welcome Back Ace, and Merry Christmas.
Thankfully your little break has not cooled off your pen any.
And that's a good thing.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 24, 2012 01:12 PM (aZ6ew)

75
In any case, I seriously doubt they'd be on Barry's side.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 01:09 PM (6TB1Z)

And that would be the only hope for a successful outcome.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:13 PM (bb5+k)

76 I read a Joyce Carol Oates novel about twenty years, a putrid POS called "Cybele" about a man obsessed with an underage girl. All the right people thought it was OH SO DARING.

Sooooo basically "Lolita," but written by a pretentious hack.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 24, 2012 01:13 PM (4df7R)

77 /enter Yakov Smirnoff
Posted by: soothsayer at December 24, 2012 01:09 PM (FC8Yl)
-----------------------------------------------------
EWWWWWW.... .Why would I want to do that? Now Kate Upton on the other hand........

Posted by: Truck Monkey at December 24, 2012 01:13 PM (jucos)

78 A certain percentage of them will, the question is exactly who and how many.

And given some recent events, how many of the generals?

Posted by: Retread at December 24, 2012 01:13 PM (zxitI)

79 You could have someone not in your church decorate his car during
service...you know like they do at weddings....only you could put on his
car something like: Gun Free Zone, Flaming Liberal...streamers, cans
etc. or whatever you think might be appropriate.

You know the little decals of families with Mom, Dad, and kids that folks put on the back of minivans, etc.? A friend of mine put two of them on the back of his buddy's car. Two men. Guy didn't notice for a month.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 01:13 PM (6TB1Z)

80
One thing that really annoys me (probably irrationally) is how many people seem to think that a "musket" (by which they usually mean a muzzleloader in general, not the technical meaning of a large bore, heavily-built smoothbore mounting a bayonet and intended for military use) is a primitive, ineffective weapon. They are slow firing (one shot every ten seconds with some training) and need some care in loading compared to modern firearms, but they make a really big hole in the target and can fire multiple projectiles.

In any case, if one wanted to massacre children with 18th century weapons, one would simply use a sword, tomahawk, club, or similar weapon - plenty of historical examples. The guy up in CT could have used a baseball bat, and his victims would still have been just as dead.

Posted by: Grey Fox at December 24, 2012 01:14 PM (lZpCr)

81 Guy didn't notice for a month.
Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 01:13 PM (6TB1Z)

He didn't forget the cat did he?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 24, 2012 01:14 PM (3Y7RV)

82 A certain percentage of them will, the question is exactly who and how many.

Posted by: KG at December 24, 2012 01:10 PM (p7BzH)

I regard the efforts by that one Army Doctor to see proof of Barack Obama's legitimacy and his eventual imprisonment as a test case for how likely it would be for the military to buck the chain of command.

I suspect that when confronted, the vast majority of them will simply follow orders.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:15 PM (bb5+k)

83 My Neighbors are all Marines. Helo pilots and one scout sniper. To a man they said there is no way in hell they would attack or fire on an American civillian.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 24, 2012 01:16 PM (3Y7RV)

84 In any case, if one wanted to massacre children with 18th century weapons, one would simply use a sword, tomahawk, club, or similar weapon - plenty of historical examples. The guy up in CT could have used a baseball bat, and his victims would still have been just as dead.
Posted by: Grey Fox at December 24, 2012 01:14 PM (lZpCr)

Or he could have done what I said previously, and just poured a couple cans of gas down the hallways and dropped a lit match.

Tiny Dick Babykiller was going to kill babies because of his tiny dick regardless of what obstacles were in his way.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 24, 2012 01:16 PM (4df7R)

85 The little decals with your family members... How utterly precious! Especially to crooks who want to know who lives in your home.

Posted by: Truman North (D) at December 24, 2012 01:17 PM (I2LwF)

86 Merry Christmas! The News Journal in NY has published a list of handgun permit holders along with an interactive map, today. Drudge has it in red. And so it not only begins but they are going to get a bunch of people killed as part of their progressive agenda.

Posted by: Daily Dish at December 24, 2012 01:17 PM (PaT5c)

87 Because there would certainly be no defections of
the military as they are ordered to fight and kill their countrymen.
Afterall, our military is just like the Chinese or the Iranian military
right? And they just robotically follow orders.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 01:11 PM (GULKT)

I suspect this is exactly what will happen. They have been taught to follow orders, and I think they will.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:17 PM (bb5+k)

88 The little decals with your family members... How utterly precious! Especially to crooks who want to know who lives in your home.
Posted by: Truman North (D) at December 24, 2012 01:17 PM (I2LwF)

Someone should make an optional little pistol decal. Then you can attach a gun to every member of your family, up to and including the cat.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 24, 2012 01:18 PM (4df7R)

89 No Lada for Ace under the new regime, I'm guessing.

And there are alot more privileged apparatchiks than Rosie and some of them are linked in my sock.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 24, 2012 01:18 PM (jPVBi)

90
You know the little decals of families with Mom, Dad, and kids that folks put on the back of minivans, etc.? A friend of mine put two of them on the back of his buddy's car. Two men. Guy didn't notice for a month.
Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 01:13 PM
_ __ _ _ _
we put "hanging balls" on the back of a coworkers Honda Fit on his last day with the company. He was a good sport and sent us pictures. We laughed our a$$es off as he drove off down the road.

Posted by: John Stark Dark of the NH Starks at December 24, 2012 01:18 PM (0JB89)

91
Ace, you should know that CBD and NDH were conspiring against you all last week. They kept using the word "mutiny" at least 3 or 4 times in each post they wrote. I was fearful. I'm so glad you are back. Merry Christmas!

Posted by: L, Elle who wants a wookie this year for Christmas at December 24, 2012 01:18 PM (0PiQ4)

92 No, I think if they were ordered to attack American cities, a sizable number would defect.

Maybe not. Combat does strange things to a man.

Posted by: MrShad at December 24, 2012 01:18 PM (Xqfwb)

93 I suspect this is exactly what will happen. They have been taught to follow orders, and I think they will.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:17 PM (bb5+k)

I think you are forgetting. They have Moms and Dads, Brothers and sisters, Most of which are prolly on the riotous side.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 24, 2012 01:18 PM (3Y7RV)

94 I grew up around hippies. 'Culling' significant numbers of people, either in aid of a particular goal (ideological purity, agrarianism) or as an end in itself, always makes an appearance, sooner or later.
.
They're so inured to it they don't even have a visceral reaction to the idea of slaughtering millions or more, it's just another tactic.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at December 24, 2012 01:19 PM (YZizW)

95 I suspect this is exactly what will happen. They have been taught to follow orders, and I think they will.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:17 PM (bb5+k)

Nice to know you have such a low opinion of the men and women that serve in our military. I'm sure they'll be happy to know you think they would kill their neighbors if ordered to.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 01:19 PM (GULKT)

96 Merry Christmas! The News Journal in NY has published a list of handgun permit holders along with an interactive map, today. Drudge has it in red. And so it not only begins but they are going to get a bunch of people killed as part of their progressive agenda.
Posted by: Daily Dish at December 24, 2012 01:17 PM (PaT5c)

Didn't some other news outlet want to do this elsewhere last year, but they were told they couldn't by cooler heads?

These IDIOTS. "Oh, hey, this guy at 933 W Almeida is a gun owner, but the family at 932 isn't listed ehre at all! I know which house I'M going to invade!"

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 24, 2012 01:19 PM (4df7R)

97 I suspect this is exactly what will happen. They have been taught to follow orders, and I think they will.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:17 PM (bb5+k)

We were taught to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. With rare exceptions, the troops will not fire on their fellow citizens.

Posted by: Ammo Dump at December 24, 2012 01:20 PM (YYyqq)

98
These IDIOTS. "Oh, hey, this guy at 933 W Almeida is a gun owner, but the family at 932 isn't listed ehre at all! I know which house I'M going to invade!"
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 24, 2012 01:19 PM (4df7R)

Yep, let the Crack/meth head Robbin and Rapin begin.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 24, 2012 01:20 PM (3Y7RV)

99 ---------------------------------------------------

The civil war will be fought amongst the military first. The small percentage who are for Barry won't last.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at December 24, 2012 01:12 PM (jucos)

I do not believe this. Army Colonel Terry Larkin challenged Obama, and the rest of the Military could not wait to see him in prison.

Do not fool yourselves. Those in the Military chain of command will follow orders.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:21 PM (bb5+k)

100 The States need to disband the National Guard and reform the State Militias.

Posted by: Butters at December 24, 2012 01:21 PM (NIZHJ)

101 It was the worst sort of pretentious typing, really.

Posted by: Kensington

There is a little fooraral in my daughter's HS now, because they assigned "Beloved" as reading, and some parents objected, demanding that they be notified when books like that are assigned. For those who haven't had the pleasures, it is the worst kind of self-conscious edginess, full of incest, lurid perversion, and general degradation, all in the service of how bad the white man is. And that's the first 40 pages.

The teachers, of course, say that it's just a small splinter of snake-handlers who want to burn books that aren't the bible.

When someone asks me if I've read it, I say yes, and my objection is based on the fact that the writing just plain sucks.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 01:21 PM (6TB1Z)

102 If their ideas were so great, why don't they want to actually live under them?
Posted by: KG

The bulk of the Left believes that man can be perfected, and it is only through a great leveling that this will happen. So temporary adjustments are necessary, some will need to be disarmed, disenfranchised, or silenced to make everything 'equal.'

Tactically, why would they act differently? Arthur Herman on Ricochet today:

"Alinsky quoting Lenin: "They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet.""

While some of them are pure emotional animals only acting on pathos -"For dah childrenz!," the ideological Leftie will only rarely admit to his ultimate goals.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 24, 2012 01:21 PM (FaqTv)

103 It's a Christmas miracle! Ace is here!

Posted by: fluffy at December 24, 2012 01:21 PM (z9HTb)

104 everyone have a good Christmas. I'm going to try to stay away from this blog and others....and spend the next two days with the kids.

Posted by: John Stark Dark of the NH Starks at December 24, 2012 01:22 PM (0JB89)

105 "David Gregory mocked the NRA's Wayne LaPierre for proposing that armed
guards be at every school in America. But the NBC host seems to have no
problem with armed guards protecting his kids everyday where they attend
school in Washington, D.C."

http://www.weeklystandard.com

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at December 24, 2012 01:22 PM (AWmfW)

106 Right on. Sidwell Friends has ARMED guards... but us serfs dont deserve the same luxury for our lowly kids..
We are a messed up society...

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at December 24, 2012 01:22 PM (DGIjM)

107 I do not believe this. Army Colonel Terry Larkin challenged Obama, and the rest of the Military could not wait to see him in prison. Do not fool yourselves. Those in the Military chain of command will follow orders.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:21 PM (bb5+k)

Larkin was not disobeying orders to fire on American citizens. You're an idiot.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 01:23 PM (GULKT)

108 Mandatory Carry.

Posted by: Butters at December 24, 2012 01:23 PM (NIZHJ)

109 Or....once they've left for work, the criminals can go on in and help themselves to the guns. If this works out the way the progressives want, a lot more criminals will now have the guns they've taken from licensed, responsible owners. Idiots is the tamest word I can think of for this.

Posted by: Daily Dish at December 24, 2012 01:23 PM (PaT5c)

110
After buying the book two years ago, I recently started reading "Bloodlands".

The first part is the massive forced starvation of Kulaks and peasanst in the Ukraine. It was all on purpose and planned, to collectivise the country side.

Every time we DON'T defend our liberties, this sort of stuff gets closer to happening in the United States. As others have said, the history of the human race has been Monarchy / Aristocracy. The new Monarchy will be the ardent social democrats of the Left.

My mother in law has been staying with us the last week or so, and I have been home on vacation.The unusual specter of Daytime TV has been on everyday here. Daytime TV is nothing but massive propaganda for the Socialist States of America. This obnoxious noise has been re-inforcing the crisis state of the Democrats in general and Obama in particular for years. If you don't believe the sheep want to yoke every man or woman who believes in Freedom and Liberty to their socialist wet dreams, watch this stuff every day fora week or two. This has a lot more to do with Obama beating Romney than you could possibly imagine.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch is not Eddie Willers yet at December 24, 2012 01:23 PM (Md8Uo)

111 Right on. Sidwell Friends has ARMED guards... but us serfs dont deserve the same luxury for our lowly kids..
We are a messed up society...
Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at December 24, 2012 01:22 PM (DGIjM)

That needs to be plastered everywhere.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 24, 2012 01:23 PM (3Y7RV)

112 Joyce Carol Oat is a fuckin embarrassment to me, me being a Princeton grad. her literature sucks. Unfortunately, she is not my only embarrasment from there: Krugman, Bernanke, Blinder, Corn West, Van Jones also rank high. Piece of crap school it has become. But I would want her opinion on what kind of ills she wishes upon bombers like Bill Ayers or the FARC terrorists. maybe she can "stick a form in it" like her fellow professor and colleague at a University, Bernandine Dohrn.

Posted by: jb at December 24, 2012 01:23 PM (I5svt)

113 There is a little fooraral in my daughter's HS now, because they assigned "Beloved" as reading,

Aaaaaand your daughter's high school sucks. Which you knew already, but I'm just seconding your opinion.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 24, 2012 01:24 PM (4df7R)

114 >>>I doubt any sort of military-like resistance will be successful.

Those 7th century cave-dwellers in Afghanistan managed to survive a decade of the Ruskies, and then a decade of us.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 24, 2012 01:24 PM (4Mv1T)

115 Sidwell Friends has ARMED guards.

I thought the Friends were Quakers.

Posted by: Retread at December 24, 2012 01:24 PM (zxitI)

116 Right on. Sidwell Friends has ARMED guards... but us serfs dont deserve the same luxury for our lowly kids..
We are a messed up society...
Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at December 24, 2012 01:22 PM (DGIjM)
------------------------------------------------------
SHUT UP SERF!

Posted by: Your Government Betters at December 24, 2012 01:25 PM (jucos)

117 I thought the Friends were Quakers.
Posted by: Retread at December 24, 2012 01:24 PM (zxitI)

There you go thinkin again.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 24, 2012 01:25 PM (3Y7RV)

118 Society of Friends is Quakers.

Posted by: Butters at December 24, 2012 01:26 PM (NIZHJ)

119 Sidwell Friends is also Quakers.

Posted by: Butters at December 24, 2012 01:27 PM (NIZHJ)

120 Aaaaaand your daughter's high school sucks. Which you knew already, but I'm just seconding your opinion.

It's actually one of the best in the country, but I know what you're saying. The teachers think it's because of them. It isn't, it's because of the demographic attending the school (overeducated NoVa strivers). Many of the teachers stink on ice.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 01:27 PM (6TB1Z)

121 As I keep saying, any reply to a press person or hollywood hack who calls for gun control should include the statement that the first amendment should be interpreted in the same manner as the second.

Of course the rest of the response should include a hearty FU.

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 01:27 PM (53z96)

122 Society of Friends is Quakers.
Posted by: Butters at December 24, 2012 01:26 PM (NIZHJ)
-------------------------------------------------------
I'd bet they have awesome oatmeal at Sidwell Friends.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at December 24, 2012 01:27 PM (jucos)

123 Time to exercise, never know when I'll have to slog through the woods setting up a Azure helmeted patrol. Later rons.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 24, 2012 01:27 PM (3Y7RV)

124 Merry Christmas! The News Journal in NY has
published a list of handgun permit holders along with an interactive
map, today. Drudge has it in red. And so it not only begins but they are
going to get a bunch of people killed as part of their progressive
agenda.

Posted by: Daily Dish at December 24, 2012 01:17 PM (PaT5c)

The appropriate response for this is to find those people who work at the News Journal in NY, and beat the fuck out of them. Seriously people, it is long past time for the left to be afraid of the right.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:27 PM (bb5+k)

125 The first part is the massive forced starvation of Kulaks and peasanst in the Ukraine. It was all on purpose and planned, to collectivise the country side.

But the Holodomor was just a big lie! That's what Walter Duranty said, and the NY Times wouldn't lie!

Posted by: Some stupid fuckhead leftist smoking weed and demanding equal pay for equal work at December 24, 2012 01:28 PM (4df7R)

126 Blam.

Posted by: Butters at December 24, 2012 01:28 PM (NIZHJ)

127 It's the right thing to do!

Posted by: Wilfrid Brimley at December 24, 2012 01:28 PM (NF2Bf)

128 I don't believe this Privileged Class stuff. I mean Jon Corzine is in prison, right? No? oh.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 24, 2012 01:28 PM (6H6FZ)

129 Idiot statement (from the Left, as usual)

""When the 2nd Amendment was written the most lethal gun available was the musket.""

A bullet is no "more lethal" than a musket ball. Dead is dead.

Yeah, I know what the original poster's intent is, but I'm tired of seeing these idiots use words and phrases that mean something else entirely as though they are somehow clever or educated.

Posted by: Sgt. York at December 24, 2012 01:29 PM (WHcjL)

130
Consistently years, if not decades,behind on the uptake.
Coming soon, a less than timelyexposition on the dangers of federal control of the monetary supply, or the warfare state.

Posted by: MlR at December 24, 2012 01:29 PM (vR2l5)

131 It's actually one of the best in the country, but I know what you're saying. The teachers think it's because of them. It isn't, it's because of the demographic attending the school (overeducated NoVa strivers). Many of the teachers stink on ice.
Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 01:27 PM (6TB1Z)

I've long believed that children who do well in school do so DESPITE the teachers, rather than because of them.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 24, 2012 01:29 PM (4df7R)

132 Michelle Obama graduated from Princeton.

My school is no better; just less well-known.

The biggest button on the home page is a link to "green initiatives."

Posted by: Truman North (D) at December 24, 2012 01:30 PM (U4oCj)

133 There were private citizens who owned cannons in post-Revolutionary America.

Posted by: Butters at December 24, 2012 01:30 PM (NIZHJ)

134 >>And Merry Christmas' Eve!

It won't be a merry Christmas until someone removes that apostrophe.

Kidding.

Mostly.

Merry Christmas to all y'all.

Posted by: Mama AJ at December 24, 2012 01:31 PM (SUKHu)

135 >>>and reform the State Militias.

My granddad and great granddad were both in the Fayetteville Light Infantry. I believe this militia predates the Revolution. Got a picture of them all together in uniform at Valley Forge in 1928 celebrating the anniversary of our independence.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 24, 2012 01:31 PM (4Mv1T)

136 Welcome back ace!!!

....grumble grumble.....
Puts pants back on

Posted by: Navycopjoe says FU lovie smith at December 24, 2012 01:31 PM (A8dkc)

137 There were private citizens who owned cannons in post-Revolutionary America.

Again, Thomas Jefferson, burrito, assembly NOT recommended.

Posted by: John Adams at December 24, 2012 01:31 PM (6TB1Z)

138
I think you are forgetting. They have Moms and Dads, Brothers and sisters, Most of which are prolly on the riotous side.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 24, 2012 01:18 PM (3Y7RV)j
It will begin as riot suppression. (After the economic collapse.) Eventually it will evolve to full scale attacks against any hint of rebellion. (For confiscating food to be sent to the rioters in the Cities.) It will be incrementalized until the military is doing exactly whatever is demanded of them.

I hope I am wrong.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:31 PM (bb5+k)

139 The Quakers make C'apn Crunch?

Posted by: Butters at December 24, 2012 01:31 PM (NIZHJ)

140 OSP, obviously I need more 'nog, to stop the thinkin'.

Posted by: Retread at December 24, 2012 01:32 PM (zxitI)

141 There were private citizens who owned cannons in post-Revolutionary America.
Posted by: Butters at December 24, 2012 01:30 PM (NIZHJ)

At my high school's annual graduation ceremony, a local who owns a cannon fires it off once all the names have been read to bring an end to the festivities. I graduated in 1998.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 24, 2012 01:32 PM (4df7R)

142 Puts pants back on
Posted by: Navycopjoe says FU lovie smith at December 24, 2012 01:31 PM (A8dkc)

Whoa, wait wait. You're putting your pants back ON now that ace is back? I think you have that backwards.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 24, 2012 01:33 PM (4df7R)

143 99 ---------------------------------------------------

The civil war will be fought amongst the military first. The small percentage who are for Barry won't last.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at December 24, 2012 01:12 PM (jucos)

I do not believe this. Army Colonel Terry Larkin challenged Obama, and the rest of the Military could not wait to see him in prison.

Do not fool yourselves. Those in the Military chain of command will follow orders.
-Diogenes Lamp

Would like proof that the "rest of the military" couldn't wait to see Colonel Lakin in prison.

And everyone in the military is in the chain of command. Are you trying to slander the whole force?

Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at December 24, 2012 01:36 PM (Su0W2)

144 At my high school's annual graduation ceremony, a local who owns a cannon fires it off once all the names have been read to bring an end to the festivities. I graduated in 1998.

Posted by: MWR

*filling out Federal Form 112-31.1 Subsection D-F*

Posted by: State Bureaucrat: Serf Monitoring/Re-education/Liquidation Department at December 24, 2012 01:36 PM (NF2Bf)

145
But, then again, that's already happened, albeit silently.
After a decade of squandering much of "the Right's" political capital, we haven't heard much lately about the quixotic, yet somehow Conservative,crusade to reform the Muslim world into a nice progressive-friendly, social democratic state.

Posted by: MlR at December 24, 2012 01:36 PM (vR2l5)

146 *filling out Federal Form 112-31.1 Subsection D-F*
Posted by: State Bureaucrat: Serf Monitoring/Re-education/Liquidation Department at December 24, 2012 01:36 PM (NF2Bf)

*snerkle!*

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 24, 2012 01:38 PM (4df7R)

147
Nice to know you have such a low opinion of the
men and women that serve in our military. I'm sure they'll be happy to
know you think they would kill their neighbors if ordered to.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 01:19 PM (GULKT)

I do not have a low opinion of American Soldiers. I have a realistic opinion of how people can be manipulated to do things they would not ordinarily do.

In the Tianamen Square massacre, I have read that the initial Chinese forces refused to fire on the protestors. The Chinese leadership sent for military assets from elsewhere, told them it was a riot/rebellion, and got them to suppress it.

If the economy collapses, the poor in the Cities will riot. (because they are hungry and cold.) The Government will order a round up of food, and the farmers will protest. The government will order that the food be seized to help alleviate the suffering in the cities. On which side do you think the military forces will come down? On the (as far as they are concerned) legal orders issued by their chain of command, or on the side of those in defiance of Washington?

By pitting the misery of one group of Americans against that of another, you keep the question of morality murky enough that the military will not be able to see the moral imperative clearly. They will follow orders because they will be told it is the correct and moral thing to do.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:38 PM (bb5+k)

148 >> And so we start finding ourselves becoming more like the Soviets we thought we defeated

Or like the British crown. Which, ironically, leads us right back to the reason the 2nd Amendment exists in the first place.

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 01:38 PM (OZPoa)

149 Would like proof that the "rest of the military" couldn't wait to see Colonel Lakin in prison. And everyone in the military is in the chain of command. Are you trying to slander the whole force?
Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at December 24, 2012 01:36 PM (Su0W2)

Hence why I called him an idiot. I'm sure the morons here that currently serve would really like knowing what a low opinion he has of them.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 01:38 PM (GULKT)

150 The appropriate response for this is to find those people who work at the News Journal in NY, and beat the fuck out of them. Seriously people, it is long past time for the left to be afraid of the right.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:27 PM (bb5+k)

No, just publish their addresses and incomes, and the fact that they're unlikely to be able to protect themselves.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 24, 2012 01:39 PM (bxiXv)

151 Slightly off-topic, but relevant: Drudge has a link to a White House petition to press charges against David Gregory for breaking DC law when he held up a 30 round magazine on "Meet The Depressed".

I signed it.

Posted by: Naqamel at December 24, 2012 01:39 PM (gcE9n)

152 >>>Ace, where's your annual Christmas Yule Log?

yup but I think tomorrow. Christmas Eve is when I always post the Waitresses' Christmas Wrapping.

Posted by: ace at December 24, 2012 01:39 PM (LCRYB)

153 In the Tianamen Square massacre, I have read that the initial Chinese forces refused to fire on the protestors. The Chinese leadership sent for military assets from elsewhere, told them it was a riot/rebellion, and got them to suppress it

So you really do think that our soldiers are no different than the Chinese Iranian and North Korean military. Yeah, you're an idiot.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 01:40 PM (GULKT)

154 post the Waitresses' Christmas Wrapping.

or UNWRAPPING. I vote for that. Yea.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 24, 2012 01:42 PM (4Mv1T)

155 Larkin was not disobeying orders to fire on American citizens. You're an idiot.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 01:23 PM (GULKT)

Not the point. None of those "Defenders of the Constitution" thought it was worthwhile to ask for a damn birth certificate to actually PROVE anything. They all preferred to accept Nancy Pelosi's certification as all the proof that was necessary.

All it takes to get the military to do whatever Washington wants is to lie to them.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:42 PM (bb5+k)

156 PS the "publish CCW holder / gun owners' addresses" thing is a REGULAR behavior of the Propaganda Pushers we laughingly call "journalists." It happens every couple years or more often.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 24, 2012 01:42 PM (bxiXv)

157 Thing is, the Military isn't usually used to squash domestic disturbances. We have police for that. If it gets out of control, the states have a National Guard. I think once the national forces are call upon to suppress citizens at home, they will figure out something is very wrong.

Maybe.

Then again, following orders is sorta what soldiers do. They don't have to like it, they just have to do it.

Posted by: MrShad at December 24, 2012 01:43 PM (Xqfwb)

158 >> Christmas Eve is when I always post the Waitresses' Christmas Wrapping.

Love that song. I'm sure it would've turned up in the post of mine you stomped.

*cough*

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 01:44 PM (OZPoa)

159 very time we DON'T defend our liberties, this sort of stuff gets closer
to happening in the United States. As others have said, the history of
the human race has been Monarchy / Aristocracy. The new Monarchy will be
the ardent social democrats of the Left.

Yes. History isn't over. Americans have just been insulated from it for so long that most can't envision things here turning bloody.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 24, 2012 01:44 PM (QKKT0)

160 What gives Joyce Carol Oates anymore knowledge an authority on my personal freedom than my cat?

I have "the supreme law of the land" on my side. All she has is an opinion and an asshole, both which are about equally valuable and both which stink.

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 01:44 PM (53z96)

161 Daytime TV is nothing but massive propaganda for the
Socialist States of America. This obnoxious noise has been re-inforcing
the crisis state of the Democrats in general and Obama in particular
for years. If you don't believe the sheep want to yoke every man or
woman who believes in Freedom and Liberty to their socialist wet dreams,
watch this stuff every day fora week or two. This has a lot more to do
with Obama beating Romney than you could possibly imagine.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch is not Eddie Willers yet at December 24, 2012 01:23 PM (Md8Uo)

Yup. It is all propaganda. Especially the entertainment.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:44 PM (bb5+k)

162 Okay, enough gloom and doom for today. Here's a little pick me up.

http://tinyurl.com/d7ck4pz

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 01:44 PM (6TB1Z)

163 I doubt any sort of military-like resistance will be successful.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:06 PM (bb5+k)

You don't fight the army. You evade the army and go straight to the crunchy center. When I was in the 82nd during the Cold War, our primary mission was to drop behind the lines and take out thecommand and control (communications and leadership) structureshould the Soviets invade Western Europe. Since light airborne infantry vs. Soviet armor would've been a very bad day, we had a name for that kind of head-to-head combat strategy if it became necessary: DIP, an acronym for Die In Place.

Dodge the spear. Focus on the spear thrower.

Posted by: troyriser at December 24, 2012 01:45 PM (vtiE6)

164
156 PS the "publish CCW holder / gun owners' addresses" thing is a REGULAR behavior of the Propaganda Pushers we laughingly call "journalists." It happens every couple years or more often.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 24, 2012 01:42 PM (bxiXv)

The Cleveland Plain Dealer wanted to do that when Ohio passed its CCW. I think they argued that because it was public information you could get from country records and such they should be allowed to publish it. I believe they were stopped from doing it though.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 01:45 PM (GULKT)

165 The States need to disband the National Guard and reform the State Militias.
Posted by: Butters at December 24, 2012 01:21 PM (NIZHJ)

I am a member of the Texas Irregulars. A very informal organization. However, there are at last estimation about 10 million of us with scoped rifles.

Posted by: Invictus at December 24, 2012 01:45 PM (OQpzc)

166 Metaphor for American troops sent to kill Americans:

http://youtu.be/Tyx0K4WrElo

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 24, 2012 01:45 PM (bxiXv)

167 It's true that, if your first reaction on hearing breaking news of this kind is to assume the perpetrator is a male dweeb in his early twenties with poor socialization skills, you're unlikely to be wrong.

One of the smallest college classes I ever attended was in Abnormal Psychology. I thought it would help me, as an employer, deal with the riff-raff that filled the workforce in a time of near full employment. It helped a little, but the class was fascinating. Three textbooks and another entire book, filled with early life stories of these lunatics and maniacs and psychotics -- all male for some strange reason. After reading about half a dozen of them the lightbulb kicked in. You could pretty well tell from the get-go that they were filled with some inner demon just waiting to get out.

We live in a time of 200k a year Principals, 200k a year Psychiatrists, 100k a year school counselors, and they still can not medicate these beasts into submission. I blame them a helluva lot more then the weapon used.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at December 24, 2012 01:46 PM (feFL6)

168 The problem with using the military to do counterinsurgency at home is that all the industry and bases are within the affected area instead of half a world away. Harder to use remote control drones when the enemy can start dropping mortar rounds on your pilots...Most of it would have to be done for off-shore bases.

Posted by: Grey Fox at December 24, 2012 01:47 PM (lZpCr)

169 Nah, the army would never attack American citizens.

http://goo.gl/Xcidh

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 01:48 PM (OZPoa)

170
I continue to be amazed that noone seems to remember thataround the 70's the fun thing for Liberals was to Insist that people that they didn't like had to be punished for any number of contrived reasons because we 'HAD TO MAKE AN EXAMPLE OF THEM'. I'm not making that up Silly Little Oatsie.

Posted by: Master Skeptic at December 24, 2012 01:50 PM (T0gLU)

171
I'm going to join the IRS. If you can't beat them, join them.

So what is there, like a test?

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 24, 2012 01:51 PM (MPjT8)

172 And not that little yuppie lamer 5.56 round either. Geez. What a fucked up round. Only a government committee could go with such and underpowered pos round as the .223.

The M1 chambered in 30.06 is a round inspired by God. Much like the ..45.

Posted by: Invictus at December 24, 2012 01:51 PM (OQpzc)

173 >> The M1 chambered in 30.06 is a round inspired by God.

"The greatest battle implement ever devised." ~ George S. Patton

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 01:52 PM (OZPoa)

174 I'll bet a dollar that the Chinese are already making guns, in anticipation of shipping them to Mexico's west coast for smuggling into the US.

A gun ban & confiscation would just be a way to ship more US manufacturing jobs overseas.

Posted by: dustydog at December 24, 2012 01:52 PM (K550W)

175 Hence why I called him an idiot. I'm sure the morons
here that currently serve would really like knowing what a low opinion
he has of them.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 01:38 PM (GULKT)

As Will Rogers said, " If you call a smart man a "pin-head" he just laughs. If you call a "pin head" a "pin head" he gets mad.

One only need be a student of History to see how governments have manipulated their soldiers into doing things of which those soldiers never believed they were capable. To believe that such tactics will not be used on our soldiers, and to believe that they will not work in many if nor most cases, is to be very naive indeed.

I have a very high opinion of our Soldiers, but they are not supermen, and they are not immune to manipulation.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:53 PM (bb5+k)

176 "Nah, the army would never attack American citizens. "

Um, that link didn't work for me, but history shows they shoot the fuck out of who they are told to shoot the fuck out of. I never forget the fate of the bonus army.

Posted by: Invictus at December 24, 2012 01:53 PM (OQpzc)

177 I'll bet a dollar that the Chinese are already making guns, in anticipation of shipping them to Mexico's west coast for smuggling into the US.

Just the Canadians did with whiskey and the mob during prohibition. Makes sense.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 24, 2012 01:54 PM (4Mv1T)

178 >> I never forget the fate of the bonus army.

Oddly enough, the link was to the wikipedia page for the Bonus Army.

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 01:55 PM (OZPoa)

179 One of the smallest college classes I ever attended was in Abnormal Psychology.

I took a week long class (~40 hrs) once on a similar subject; aberrant behavior. From the newspaper descriptions of this guy he would have stood out like a sore thumb as a classic example.

I still say blame him and the ACLU for those deaths.

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 01:55 PM (53z96)

180 And how the fk did we get off topic so bad to start talking about American soldiers killing Americans?

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 01:56 PM (53z96)

181 A book of stamps is $9.00.

That's $3.00 to deliver 20 letters and $6.00 to pad out the pensions.

Posted by: Truman North (D) at December 24, 2012 01:56 PM (U4oCj)

182 I wonder how bad things have to get before red-state secession becomes a serious consideration.

Posted by: Eisenhorn at December 24, 2012 01:57 PM (OjQYm)

183
No, just publish their addresses and incomes, and the fact that they're unlikely to be able to protect themselves.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 24, 2012 01:39 PM (bxiXv)

Yes, I can see burglars, murderers, and rapists reading the newspapers to scope out new potential victims. Seriously, if they don't feel a serious backlash, they will be emboldened to go further. The Muslims keep the media in a constant state of terror for fear of offending them, and I think the media ought to feel the same way about us.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:57 PM (bb5+k)

184 80
The guy up in CT could have used a baseball bat, and his
victims would still have been just as dead.

-----

Nonsense. And I know it's nonsense because just this weekend a liberal wench on Fox News pointed out that the upside of the recent Chinese school knife attack was that the children hadn't *died*, they were just horribly wounded. She pointed out that they would have died had the Chinese knife spree dude been armed with an evil assault weapon, and *then* it would have been a tragedy!

Posted by: Citizen Anachronda at December 24, 2012 01:58 PM (1c58W)

185 Re: Chinese weapons. I wouldn't want to depend on one.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 24, 2012 01:58 PM (4Mv1T)

186 So you really do think that our soldiers are no
different than the Chinese Iranian and North Korean military. Yeah,
you're an idiot.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 01:40 PM (GULKT)

If you say so.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:58 PM (bb5+k)

187 Ace,

I'd like to direct you to a Bill Whittle 'Afterburner' episode called 'a tale of 2 revolutions.'. It is based on Thomas Sowell's masterpiece "A conflict of visions."

What we are seeing here is a push for neo-feudalism. The feudal system believed in right, but, that only aristocrats (the elite) had them. Lords And Ladies could be armed,speak freely, etc. Serfs/peasants couldn't.

This system became unsustainable, and there was revolution. In America we decided that everyone would get to be aristocracy, thus everyone gets rights. In France they decided to abolish the aristocracy, that no one gets rights.

I think it is very importation that we relentlessly attack the unstated assumption of leftist neo-feudalism: that they are the new aristocracy. This must be done through blame, ridicule, and revelations of hypocrisy. Any time the left attempts to attack a group, we must respond by attacking the individual bringing the charge against the group.

That will precipitate the halt of their agenda, and start it's rollback. Rights belong to all individuals, we are all equal. Why does David Brooks think he is better than us?

This isn't a wife-beating question. He is publicly calling for himself to be made aristocracy and us to be made serfs.

No quarter for neo-feudalists. No quarter for those who support tyranny.

Posted by: Hopeless at December 24, 2012 01:58 PM (89r5W)

188 Dodge the spear. Focus on the spear thrower.

Posted by: troyriser at December 24, 2012 01:45 PM (vtiE6)

If it is to work at all, this will be the way to do it.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 02:00 PM (bb5+k)

189 I hate to say it, but I believe Diogenes is closer to right. Please read the very informative essay in my nic.

Posted by: ctizen khan at December 24, 2012 02:01 PM (/Sofc)

190 169 Nah, the army would never attack American citizens.

http://goo.gl/Xcidh
Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 01:48 PM (OZPoa)

Not saying that no individual or unit would never do such a thing. Am saying the the military isn't made up of mindless drones nor are its members the product of a tyrannical society. Oh yeah and let's not forget that it is an all volunteer force. These things make a difference. It isn't the same force that it was in the 30s, or even in the 70s.

I'm also saying that person should know what terms mean before using them--terms like "chain of command. "

Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at December 24, 2012 02:02 PM (Su0W2)

191 >> Yes, I can see burglars, murderers, and rapists reading the newspapers to scope out new potential victims.

Oddly enough, publishing the list of permit holders has the opposite effect of what the leftist idiots were trying to do in that it paints a big bullseye on the houses that aren't on the list.

http://goo.gl/ewXkt

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 02:02 PM (OZPoa)

192 I have a very high opinion of our Soldiers, but they are not supermen, and they are not immune to manipulation.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 01:53 PM (bb5+k)
---

You could also point to the example of guys like Bradley Manning in our military. I know a few guys in the army, and they're some of the most stand-up guys I know. But you've got to be shitting yourself if you think all soldiers are great.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at December 24, 2012 02:02 PM (Y5I9o)

193 Can we get by Christmas without a flame war?

And here to get things going from the "cheap list" at Amazon today is the novelization of crossbows and longbows.

http://is.gd/YsVHAF

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 02:02 PM (53z96)

194 wonder how bad things have to get before red-state secession becomes a serious consideration.

It will likely be a series of unexpected events. The run on guns and mags was a surprise to me, even though I was already shopping for a rifle, then Conn. happened, and the short fuse was lit.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 24, 2012 02:02 PM (4Mv1T)

195 Re: Chinese weapons. I wouldn't want to depend on one.
Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 24, 2012 01:58 PM (4Mv1T)

I don't own any Chinese weapons but do have an assortment of old commie surplus stuff from Russia, Yugoslavia, Poland, Bulgaria, et al. Awesome firearms: not pretty to look at but are incredibly sturdy, amazingly accurate,and absolutely reliable. Communist countries may not be able to make decent cars or home appliances, but their weapons are top-of-the-line. It's about priorities, I guess.

Posted by: troyriser at December 24, 2012 02:02 PM (vtiE6)

196
I'm a big Fan of Mr. Steyn but I think semi automatic weapons go back a little further then 1885. Wasn't the six shooter revolver a semi-automatic? During the Civil War Union Calvary acquired repeating rifles. The rebels lamented that they could load on a Sunday and fire all week. Custer and his men found out the hard way that their single shot carbines were no match for the Henry repeating rifle. And Chuck Connors in "The Rifleman" Could spray bullets with his Winchester.

Posted by: deepred at December 24, 2012 02:03 PM (YmACv)

197 I agree with you in the main, Baldilocks.

It's just good to remember history lest we repeat it.

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 02:04 PM (OZPoa)

198 Funny how even more sports talking heads are getting into the 'higher than thou' lecturing. Peter King shot his mouth off again with his rant. Word to all the sports talking heads: Shut up and stick to blocks, tackles, and TDs. You just sound like so much foolish trash when you try to write about something other than sports.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at December 24, 2012 02:05 PM (n8LUb)

199
Um, that link didn't work for me, but history
shows they shoot the fuck out of who they are told to shoot the fuck out
of. I never forget the fate of the bonus army.

Posted by: Invictus at December 24, 2012 01:53 PM (OQpzc)

Yup. The lessons of the Civil war are lost on buzzion. Nobody in the North wanted to fight that war, but the army followed orders.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 02:05 PM (bb5+k)

200 Troyriser- I think commie/non-commie is not the issue with arms. Pollock jokes notwithstanding, the eastern Europeans had/have GREAT engineers. The Chinese, not so much. They just copy our stuff, and do a shitty job of it.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 24, 2012 02:06 PM (4Mv1T)

201 I took a week long class (~40 hrs) once on a similar subject; aberrant behavior. From the newspaper descriptions of this guy he would have stood out like a sore thumb as a classic example.

I still say blame him and the ACLU for those deaths.

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 01:55 PM (53z96)

And the topic was probably as far from your field as it was from mine. But we needed to be aware because these little devils are out there. You had critical and dangerous equipment and systems, I had costly equipment they would destroy in a fit of anger, then walk out the door. You blame the ACLU, I blame the so-called professionals who unleash them on society.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at December 24, 2012 02:07 PM (feFL6)

202
Rosie O'Donnell's bodyguards can carry handguns, for example. She's Important

And, in fairness, a big target, hard to miss.

Besides which, her bodyguards are provided by PETA.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 24, 2012 02:08 PM (4u2LN)

203
You could also point to the example of guys like
Bradley Manning in our military. I know a few guys in the army, and
they're some of the most stand-up guys I know. But you've got to be
shitting yourself if you think all soldiers are great.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at December 24, 2012 02:02 PM (Y5I9o)

There are those who will recognize and do the right thing. Will they be a majority, and will they be able to prevent abuses? I don't know. I would like to hope so, but I think pessimism is more realistic.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 02:09 PM (bb5+k)

204 You blame the ACLU, I blame the so-called professionals who unleash them on society.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at December 24, 2012 02:07 PM (feFL6)

I blame the ACLU for making it impossible to lock these people up BEFORE they start killing people.

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 02:09 PM (53z96)

205 >> Wasn't the six shooter revolver a semi-automatic?

No.

But "high capacity magazines" go back to the Henry repeating rifle of about 1860, which is what you're referring to.

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 02:09 PM (OZPoa)

206
31Screw Joyce Carol Oates!

With a name like that you just know it's a head tilter.

Yup. God save us from the Three Name Brigade.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 24, 2012 02:10 PM (4u2LN)

207 Oddly enough, publishing the list of permit holders
has the opposite effect of what the leftist idiots were trying to do in
that it paints a big bullseye on the houses that aren't on the list.

http://goo.gl/ewXkt

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 02:02 PM (OZPoa)

My concern for the gun owners is not so much the ordinary criminal, but is more instead for those left-wing kooks that think it is okay to hurt people with whom they disagree.

I once had my fields set on fire because I put up a big sign by the road. The left will do such things as drive by shootings. Do not doubt it.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 02:11 PM (bb5+k)

208 Obama isn't about provoking an armed civil conflict.

He is about provoking a destabilizing situation via constitutional crisis that brings about permanent economic ruin as justice for America's past.

At least read his fucking books. He would welcome secession attempts. Because they would bring about economic ruin to places that didn't support him.

Posted by: Hopeless at December 24, 2012 02:11 PM (BgZ8b)

209 193 Can we get by Christmas without a flame war?

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 02:02 PM (53z96)

Dude, we can't go five minutes without a flame war.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 24, 2012 02:11 PM (bxiXv)

210 Yup. The lessons of the Civil war are lost on buzzion. Nobody in the North wanted to fight that war, but the army followed orders.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 02:05 PM (bb5+k

At the time of the civil war ones loyalty was more towards the individual states rather than United States as a whole. And you're the dipshit ignoring the Civil War. I mean afterall the military just blindly follows the orders of government. That's why the U.S. Army General Robert E. Lee led the Union troops against the uprising of the South.

So clearly all of the advanced military assets would be on one side because none of the military would defect. Just like during the Civil War.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 02:12 PM (GULKT)

211
You blame the ACLU, I blame the so-called professionals who unleash them on society.

Blame the Supreme Court - O'Connor v. Davidson, 1975, held it unconstitutional to institutionalize someone with proof that they were an imminent threat to themselves or others.

Thanks, Supremes! Love the black muumuus!

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 24, 2012 02:12 PM (4u2LN)

212 With a name like that you just know it's a head tilter.

Are you referring to the "Head Tilt of Compassion", or the "Why are you such a Neanderthal" look of condescension? These things matter. The real pros can do both simultaneously.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 02:13 PM (6TB1Z)

213 You could also point to the example of guys like Bradley Manning in our military. I know a few guys in the army, and they're some of the most stand-up guys I know. But you've got to be shitting yourself if you think all soldiers are great.
Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at December 24, 2012 02:02 PM (Y5I9o)

I worked in the same building as a Bradley Manning back in the 80s. That didn't make us as traitors. Nor did it make us all guns ho flag wavers.

Sheesh, folks. Can we skip the conversation about what *everyone* in Army will do or *no one* in the Marines would do? We cannot talk about what every single person would do under all circumstances. We can only talk about probabilities. I

Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at December 24, 2012 02:14 PM (Su0W2)

214
Word to all the sports talking heads: Shut up and stick to blocks, tackles, and TDs. You just sound like so much foolish trash when you try to write about something other than sports.

Why except sports? They sound like assholes about that too most of the time.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 24, 2012 02:15 PM (4u2LN)

215 Dang. I'm late to the flame wars. As usual.

Posted by: Vizzini at December 24, 2012 02:15 PM (O7Q1u)

216 Frickin autocorrect.

Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at December 24, 2012 02:16 PM (Su0W2)

217 Great minds, Andy.

And how the fk did we get off topic so bad to start talking about American soldiers killing Americans?
Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 01:56 PM (53z96)

Let me tell you how it will go, Vic. The internet will go down on bases. The MSM and the Army leadership will inform the soldiers that there is a rebellion by evil, white supremacists. The soldiers will know, in their hearts, that what they are doing is right and proper.
The Red russians didn't just walk merrily into Moscow. The whites did fight.

Posted by: Invictus at December 24, 2012 02:16 PM (OQpzc)

218
Blame the Supreme Court - O'Connor v. Davidson,
1975, held it unconstitutional to institutionalize someone with proof
that they were an imminent threat to themselves or others.

Thanks, Supremes! Love the black muumuus!

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 24, 2012 02:12 PM (4u2LN)

I read an article recently which suggested that the effort to deinstitutionalize the mentally ill started because of the book "One flew over the cuckoo's nest" which painted mental institutions as horrible. John Kennedy made the first efforts at de-institutionalization, and that decision by the Supreme court was the culmination of other efforts.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 02:17 PM (bb5+k)

219 If I recall correctly some libtard paper in VA published the names and home addresses of all the CCW holders in their area.

The CCW holders published the names and addresses of all the reporters and management for the paper. After that no more publishing name shit.

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 02:17 PM (53z96)

220 Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 02:12 PM (GULKT)I don't think Diogenes is a dipshit. I actually think he makes an arguable point that relying on the good graces of the military to stand down is a foolish hope at best.If a General refuses to order his men to put people down in defiance of the NCA, that General will be replaced with someone who will. The Colonel who refuses the order from the new General will be replaced. And so on. At the tactical level, a squad of guys told to secure a house where there's a guy armed probably isn't going to get into weighty questions of Constitutional rights. They are going to worry about getting shot and will fall back on their training. IMO, of course.

Posted by: JohnTant at December 24, 2012 02:18 PM (tVWQB)

221 Blame the Supreme Court - O'Connor v. Davidson,
1975, held it unconstitutional to institutionalize someone with proof
that they were an imminent threat to themselves or others.

Thanks, Supremes! Love the black muumuus!

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 24, 2012 02:12 PM (4u2LN)

Yes, the 70s court. No finer bunch of liberal hacks in robes to be found since. But it was the ACLU who ginned up the case and took it to them.

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 02:19 PM (53z96)

222 >>wonder how bad things have to get before red-state secession becomes a serious consideration.

The Red State citizens and their understanding of rights are the true descendents of The Framers, who were mostly rural farmers.

The Blue State phenomenon is a result of the Industrial Revolution, and the Leftist Progressives usurping the rights of those settling there until the inevitable perversion that is today's corrupt socialist welfare state.

It's difficult to see a reversion to a majority view of the original framers sensibilities with the larger number of captive moocher and criminal element not going away through hard work.

With the idea of the Military turning on citizens, that population may skew Red State, particularly amongst the NCO Cadre which are the heart and soul of our forces.
While true that the officers have become primarily a political class, their numbers and real influence would not serve them well in that extreme circumstance.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 24, 2012 02:20 PM (aZ6ew)

223 Let me tell you how it will go, Vic. The internet
will go down on bases. The MSM and the Army leadership will inform the
soldiers that there is a rebellion by evil, white supremacists. The
soldiers will know, in their hearts, that what they are doing is right
and proper.

Posted by: Invictus at December 24, 2012 02:16 PM (OQpzc)

It is idiocy to think that a group of people who could manipulate a majority of people into voting stupidly cannot manipulate other people into going along with them.

The military will obey because they will be taught that it is the right thing to do, and they will not be permitted access to dissenting information. (Kinda like the American Public and the Propaganda Media.)

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 02:21 PM (bb5+k)

224 My brother in law voted for Nader in 08 while in the Army because Obama was a "dangerous Tea Partier". Diogenes is right, a chunk of the military not only would fire on Americans, they'd enjoy it.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 24, 2012 02:21 PM (OevbG)

225 Yup. The lessons of the Civil war are lost on buzzion. Nobody in the North wanted to fight that war, but the army followed orders.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 02:05 PM (bb5+k)

Need I point out the myriad differences in the force and the society between then and now?

Personally, I think The Organized Left has been trying to drive out the type of independent thinker that might have been more prone to joining the military since the draft was ended.

Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at December 24, 2012 02:24 PM (Su0W2)

226 The civil war was a different environment. It was still a "the United States are" mentality, not "the United States is" mode of thinking we have now. We have national media on 24 hours now. When something happens in one place, we hear about it in everyplace.

Companies are made up of soldiers from every state in the union. There is no particular loyalty to a single state or region, because the guys next to you come from someplace completely different.

I want to hope our armed forces won't fire on us, but when it comes right down to it, soldiers follow orders.

Posted by: MrShad at December 24, 2012 02:24 PM (Xqfwb)

227 The CCW holders published the names and addresses of all the reporters and management for the paper. After that no more publishing name shit.
Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 02:17 PM (53z96)

A similar thing happened involving a local "news organ" here in California. They pulled the story but they were *unbelievably* butthurt about it, and I doubt they learned their lesson.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 24, 2012 02:25 PM (bxiXv)

228 Merry Christmas everyone! I am now going to turn my thoughts away from apprehension and I urge everyone else to do likewise.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 02:26 PM (bb5+k)

229 and they will not be permitted access to dissenting information. (Kinda like the American Public and the Propaganda Media.)
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 02:21 PM (bb5+k)

Yeah, The Society of Cincinnatus isn't what it once was. They are sell-outs to the aristocracy these days. Tragic.

Posted by: Invictus at December 24, 2012 02:26 PM (OQpzc)

230 I read an article recently which suggested that the effort to deinstitutionalize the mentally ill started because of the book "One flew over the cuckoo's nest" which painted mental institutions as horrible. John Kennedy made the first efforts at de-institutionalization, and that decision by the Supreme court was the culmination of other efforts.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 02:17 PM (bb5+k)Yep. Deinstitutionalization was a lefty cause celebre (remember "care in the community?") that led to corresponding legislation in several states, including (of course) California (and Florida, which I believe was where that SCOTUS case came from). The liberals here emptied out the nut barns and blamed Reagan for it, but it was liberal agitation and legislation that ultimately led to the Supreme Court case.Thanks, liberals! Remember to tip your homeless person who just crapped in between those parked cars!

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 24, 2012 02:28 PM (4u2LN)

231
224 My brother in law voted for Nader in 08 while in the Army because Obama was a "dangerous Tea Partier". Diogenes is right, a chunk of the military not only would fire on Americans, they'd enjoy it.
Posted by: Ian S. at December 24, 2012 02:21 PM (OevbG)

Well of course. The thing that brought this up is Diogenes' parroting of a favorite liberal talking point about how an armed uprising wouldn't work because of how the military is. I'm not deluded to think the entirety of the military would refuse/defect. But niether am I deluded enough to think that none would defect either.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 02:29 PM (GULKT)

232 Cicero, #73:

Jumping in late to agree: The Lives of Others was brilliant. What an amazing performance by Ulrich Muehe! I was sorry to read he'd died shortly after it came out.

Spoiler Alert:

John Podhoretz' review singles out as a turning point the scene with the boy in the elevator, who innocently blurts out something his father had said about the Stasi. Captain Wiesler automatically starts to ask the boy his father's name, stops short, and continues with something absurd, because he's suddenly decided not to ruin the kid's life.

Posted by: JPS at December 24, 2012 02:29 PM (G2MpN)

233 224 My brother in law voted for Nader in 08 while in the Army because Obama was a "dangerous Tea Partier". Diogenes is right, a chunk of the military not only would fire on Americans, they'd enjoy it.
Posted by: Ian S. at December 24, 2012 02:21 PM (OevbG)

Yeah and my brother in law, while in the Air Force, voted for McCain in 2008 and Romney in 2012.

I'm being to see the perspective problem...my sister has better taste than yours does. Understatement.

Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at December 24, 2012 02:29 PM (Su0W2)

234
Personally, I think The Organized Left has been
trying to drive out the type of independent thinker that might have
been more prone to joining the military since the draft was ended.

Posted by: baldilocks at December 24, 2012 02:24 PM (Su0W2)

I've read about the German army during world war II. Many of them did not like what they were forced to do, but to stand in disobedience was to guarantee their death. Socialist governments are all alike, and I do not think it wise for us to fool ourselves about what forces will be brought to bear to insure compliance.

I hope I am wrong, but whenever I think I am being too cynical, something happens which makes me believe I can't be cynical enough.

Merry Christmas to you Baldilocks! May you be blessed in this New Year.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 02:29 PM (bb5+k)

235
I work with a fellow who is from a family of apparatchiks. They prospered in the Soviet system. His parents were university professors with a big house on a lake. His uncle was a factory manager driven around by a chauffeur. This acquaintance never had to wait in a line for anything, jobs were just handed to him. He hated the collapse of communism and has been on anti-depressents since. His family had to flee... for some reason... and to this day he is ridculously paranoid for some reason.
Soviet systems collapse eventually.

Posted by: theCork at December 24, 2012 02:31 PM (zherK)

236
Yes, the 70s court. No finer bunch of liberal hacks in robes to be found since. But it was the ACLU who ginned up the case and took it to them.
Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 02:19 PM (53z96)Yep, but I blame the Supremes, who could have come up for air long enough to make a sensible ruling. Ginning up bullshit cases and agitating is what the ACLU and other communist fronts do. Blaming them is like blaming cockroaches for being disgusting.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 24, 2012 02:31 PM (4u2LN)

237 Seriously, Ian (and others), my bil says that he can see the day coming where he might be ordered to kick down his neighbor's door.

Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at December 24, 2012 02:32 PM (Su0W2)

238 It is idiocy to think that a group of people who could manipulate a majority of people into voting stupidly cannot manipulate other people into going along with them. The military will obey because they will be taught that it is the right thing to do, and they will not be permitted access to dissenting information. (Kinda like the American Public and the Propaganda Media.)
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 02:21 PM (bb5+k)

Except that the military is one of the groups they have had trouble manipulating into voting stupidly. They're not indifferent about making it as difficult as possible for military votes to be counted because they're overwhelmingly voting for the statist loving democrats afterall.

Posted by: buzzion at December 24, 2012 02:35 PM (GULKT)

239 Merry Christmas to you Baldilocks! May you be blessed in this New Year.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 02:29 PM (bb5+k)

Thank you and same to ya!

Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at December 24, 2012 02:35 PM (Su0W2)

240 Seriously, Ian (and others), my bil says that he can see the day coming where he might be ordered to kick down his neighbor's door.
Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at December 24, 2012 02:32 PM (Su0W2)

Here is how it works. When the Army comes to town, you bury your weapons, smile a lot, try to bum an MRE.

They will do their best to igonre anything out of the ordinary. If you must have your weapon in your hand, they will kill you and ask questions later. Wait until they pull out. They must pull out because it is a very big fucking country.

Then dig up your weapons and get back to work.

Easy peasy. This is a history approved tactic.

Posted by: Invictus at December 24, 2012 02:38 PM (OQpzc)

241 new one

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 02:40 PM (53z96)

242 Off for Xmas Eve dinner with the in-laws. Wish me luck.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 02:44 PM (6TB1Z)

243 >>Seriously, Ian (and others), my bil says that he can see the day coming
where he might be ordered to kick down his neighbor's door.

That would be upwards of 25-50 million doors to be kicked in containing anywhere from 270+ million firearms.

What might that do in terms of attrition to a seriously understrength Army?

And don't figure on those depleted numbers being strengthened by the likes of the OWS boys.

One half assed wedgie would finish off any of them.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 24, 2012 02:47 PM (aZ6ew)

244 By now it should be apparent we lost the Cold War.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 24, 2012 03:10 PM (8AF5n)

245 Arrest David Gregory, dangerous gun criminal!

Posted by: Cowboy at December 24, 2012 03:15 PM (WcgMM)

246 Except that the military is one of the groups they have had trouble manipulating into voting stupidly.

Future RIF's will be based on political reliability. Bank on it.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 24, 2012 03:17 PM (8AF5n)

247 support the nationalww2museum.org.

Posted by: pointsnfigures at December 24, 2012 03:23 PM (0Atym)

248 Bwwaaaaahahahaha... somebody started a
petition to get Piers Morgan deported and then the British started one
to keep him from coming back. I'd say the dude needs to work on his
people skills.

Posted by: trainer @ Home at December 24, 2012 03:31 PM (1QEkm)

249 and then the British started one to keep him from coming back.

Split the difference. Drop him off at the halfway point. If he can swim back, he gets to stay.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 24, 2012 03:41 PM (8AF5n)

250 Air drop him on Diego Garcia and call it even.

Posted by: Butters at December 24, 2012 03:58 PM (NIZHJ)

251 That would be upwards of 25-50 million doors to be kicked in containing anywhere from 270+ million firearms.

What might that do in terms of attrition to a seriously understrength Army?

And don't figure on those depleted numbers being strengthened by the likes of the OWS boys.

One half assed wedgie would finish off any of them.
Posted by: ontherocks at December 24, 2012 02:47 PM (aZ6ew)

Well, bil concurs. Like I said, he's paying attention. And I'm certain that he's not anomaly among the rank and file...for now. There's a reason that the Organized Left is trying to drive out guys like him.

Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at December 24, 2012 03:59 PM (Su0W2)

252 I got here late to this thread, but I'm a lot more worried about the Federal alphabet agencies than I am about the military. I also don't think the government would sic the military on us right away. There's a lot they can do with Federal law enforcement.

Posted by: rickl at December 24, 2012 04:01 PM (sdi6R)

253
As far as Joyce Carol Oates goes, I live in her hometown, and every so often you hear something about her. It's not at all like, for example, Billy Gregory (a shuttle astronaut) or Kim Alexis, who were also from here. She always seems pretty aloof towards both her hometown and her own family (one gets the impression that she would just as soon forget about both), and in general she comes across as a VERY strange character.

Actually, she's theexactkind of person who you might expect to read about for having blown away a few random people.

Posted by: Optimizer at December 24, 2012 04:23 PM (Mxt9o)

254 re: "What might that do in terms of attrition to a seriously understrength Army?"

The Army wouldn't get that job. The police would. And they'd do it with relish.

Every no-crime department from Elko to Paducah has a federally funded SWAT armory they're salivating to use. On you.

Posted by: oblig. at December 24, 2012 04:23 PM (cePv8)

255 252, that would be the alphabet agencies that collectively bought about a billion rounds of .40 hollowpoint earlier this year ?
you may be on to something.

Posted by: irving washington at December 24, 2012 04:29 PM (jNNWD)

256 Get something that uses .40. That is becoming a popular flavor.

Posted by: Butters at December 24, 2012 04:35 PM (NIZHJ)

257 The Colt Paterson, a repeating arm, was patented in 1836.

It's a design that's almost 200 years old. A decent machinist could churn out revolvers by the dozens.

It's ancient technology at this point.

Posted by: RobM1981 at December 24, 2012 05:27 PM (zurJC)

258 My take:

http://soldiercitizen.wordpress.com/2012/12/24/hobbes-violence-and-gun-control/

Posted by: Douglas at December 24, 2012 05:27 PM (CM0TJ)

259 We have seen what you a are speaking of through out history, America is well on it's way to having a nobility, recall in feudal societies of the past the serfs were not allowed to have arms they lived and died by the whims of the nobility and the nobles were a law unto themselves and only answered to the king. History repeats itself over and over again.

Posted by: Oldcrow at December 24, 2012 05:34 PM (FSTmi)

260 Family has arrived, and we are living in the kitchen (huge tenderloin presently the center of attention).

Merry Christmas Ace. Have a wonderful time with your special people.

Surfin

Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at December 24, 2012 06:07 PM (OTWsz)

261
Well, family is all gone and I'm tilting at windmills.

Do not ever forget that liberals want to kill off 25 million or so people to make the country more manageable. I think that they are just looking for an excuse to start something that they think they can get the military to finish for them.

Posted by: Gmac - Who wishes all a Merry Christmas, except for those retards that re-elected the SCOAMF at December 25, 2012 12:32 AM (IanLz)

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