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NY23: A Taste of Things to Come, or a Fluke?
Now that the NY23 special election is back to a two-way race, I'm wondering: Is this a template for getting conservatives on the ballot, or is it one of those "hard cases make bad law" examples that lawyers are always talking about?
Days out from the vote, polling data appears to be a mixed bag. The majority of Dede's support was Republican, BUT a small-sample poll appears to suggest that the Republicans who were supporting Dede don't view Hoffman favorably. Is this dislike strong enough to make them cross the aisle and vote for "Not Really a Democrat" Owens out of spite? Or will they just stay home like many conservative voters did last year when faced with Senator "Maverick" on the ticket? I do feel positive about the chances for Hoffman's victory because he treated Scozzafava's exit from the race with grace. He obviously knows the value of courting her former supporters, and I hope he doubles down with gracious statements about Newt, the RNCC and other organizations which were formerly supporting the party line. There will be plenty of time for "I told you so" after he wins the election.Ace made some great points yesterday, and I just wanted to give my two cents worth on a couple of his points. He estimates that America is divided into 40% liberal, 40% conservative and 20% moderate. I think that the moderates are MUCH larger than he stated. Historical accounts of the American Revolution say that the colonies were divided into three relatively equal camps: Separatists, Loyalists and The Indifferent. The Separatists fought against the British Army AND the Loyalists while The Indifferent tried to stay out of the way. I think that a portion of those who self-identify as "conservative" or "liberal" are ultimately "moderates" who just want to be left alone to get on with their lives*. These "moderates" are not wedded to either party structure and make choices based on the message offered by individual candidates.
(DISCLAIMER: Now I'm going to talk about "revolution". Please, please, please, please, please don't take this as a Call To Arms. I'm using examples of two bloody armed rebellions to make my point, but I still think that we have yet to pass the Point of No Return where blood must be spilled before changes can be made. I think that the following paragraphs will speak for themselves, but I just wanted to get this disclaimer out there ahead of the examples to reinforce my optimism.) Now that I've invoked The American Revolution, lets cut to the main point of my post: The current state of Conservative & Republican politics is untenable, but which sort of a "revolution" do we want to use to redirect the ship of state? Shall we choose the American Revolution model, where leaders made a reasoned case for a change and then proceeded to form a new Republic without bloody reprisals against their former opponents who stuck around after the war was completed?** Or do we want to have a French Revolution? The Guillotine is a particularly effective way to quell dissent, and there IS a perverse sort of justice in seeing those who exploited the working man carried to the public square by a mob of said workers for a Carnival of Blood & Decapitation. I have heard Glenn Beck talk about wanting to have an American Revolution and not a French Revolution, but its never a bad idea to reinforce this point: The American Revolution created a Nation that has existed in a relatively stable state, despite its flaws, for over 200 years. The French Revolution created a bloody mess that ultimately produced Napoleonic France. Victor Davis Hansen calls the leaders who take advantage of these sorts of muddles "A Man on a Horse", and I think the term is spot on accurate. Revolutions that are based on "payback" give birth to dysfunctional states. Napoleonic France and Haiti are the best modern examples of this concept. How can modern "tea party" conservatives keep their revolution on track? I've got a few ideas: 1. Be gracious winners. Realize that the moderates will most likely remain moderates no matter how persuasive your argument, and accept their support. The old "80/20 Rule" (someone who's with me on 80% of the agenda and only opposed to 20% is an ally, not the enemy) is still valid. The only problem is that its been modified to be the "60/40 Rule" at best, with "50/50" or even "40/60" being used in the modern Republican party. Political coalitions are like marriages: A union where the less-strident participant is constantly being reminded of their Divergence from Conservative Purity is not going to make it to a 50th Anniversary Party. Hell, it will be lucky to survive to a FIRST anniversary. Forgive Newt and his ilk for their mistakes and accept them into the fold, because forgiveness isn't the same as forgetfullness. 2. Don't moderate your views to win support from moderates. Encourage moderates to come up with solutions that will implement conservative principles in a way that will ultimately get you to a conservative state. Learn to communicate your views in a way that will reinforce your ties to conservative-leaning moderates. "The Stick" is always needed to get people moving in the right direction, but use it as a last resort after all "The Carrots" have been used up. Is this hard work? You bet your ass it is, but this hard work is the only way to fix the problems we've gotten ourselves into. 3. Take the long view, and don't rest on your laurels. One of my friends is a "Take Off & Nuke It From Orbit" Conservative. He likes to point to the political awakening of Conservative Christians in the late 70's and 80's that resulted in success for Republicans but ultimately no forward progress for the causes the "Moral Majority" were fighting for (abortion, traditional marriage, etc.). He believes that ANY compromise with the Republican Party will result in social cons getting screwed, so he's hellbent on buring down the Big Tent and letting two new political parties emerge from the ashes. I think that this sort of thinking absolves the leaders of the Social Conservative movement from any responsibility for their lackadasical performance in power and misses the ultimate point. Getting your foot in the door is only the FIRST step to changing society. Once you get to the top, you've got to work just as hard to stay there as you worked to get there in the first place. There's a verse in the Bible that says "the poor will always be with you", and I've always believed that this means that people of faith will always have one more job to do. Its the nature of mortal existence - flaws are built into the system, and it will always need repairs. If you can find the Bible verse that says "Get thyself into power, and its all downhill from there", I'd love to know about it. Apparently my Bible is missing a few pages and tells me that life will be frustrating. 4. Set a place at the table for those without religious faith. I'm a Christian, but I have no problem accepting an agnostic or an atheist as an ally in Conservatism. It all falls back to the "80/20" rule referenced earlier. Glenn Beck has included a belief in a higher power in his "9/12" movement, but I doubt that he would forego changing the direction of American politics if it meant standing on stage with a few people who have unsure or nonexistent relationships with The Big Guy In The Sky. There's nothing wrong with graciously evangelizing among these people while they're standing up for Conservatism, but excluding them from the movement because they're not perfectly in line with your beliefs is political suicide. And while we're at it, lets set a place for conservative homosexuals at the table as well. I may be a Christian, but there are conservative homosexuals that I would support for leadership positions before I'd get in line for a "Christian Leader" like Mike Huckabee. Lets find common ground on the issues we agree on, while we make reasoned arguments for the issues that we don't agree on (gay marriage & adoption, for example). Anyway, this piece is predicated on Hoffman winning over Owens next week. If Owens pulls it out, I fully expect both sides of the Conservatives vs. Pragmatists to keep their knives out & continue slashing. And maybe that's what's needed. I don't know. All I know is that there is a better way. * - Some might argue that those in the middle who "just want to get along with their lives" are libertarians, and therefore lean towards conservatism. I would respond that the Modern Libertarian party is about as useful as tits on a boar. Unless your "make or break" issues are fiat currency, pot legalization & isolationist foreign policy, the Libertarian Party is not the place for you. ** - Yes, I realize that American Tories suffered reprisals after the conclusion of the American Revolution; however, these were NOT "top down" policies. The leaders of the American Revolution were more concerned with winning their freedom than they were in punishing those who stayed loyal to the King. Some Tories who took zealously active roles in trying to put down the rebellion were charged with crimes after the war, but there was no declared campaign against American Tories. Except for Tori Spelling, who was roundly denounced in Federalist Paper #27.Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
Sorry about the freakin' thesis. I've had these thoughts on my brain for the last week, and when they came out they came out LARGE. Editing ain't my thing.
Posted by: Russ from Winterset at November 01, 2009 11:38 AM (/MEFr)
2
Re the last post, may we turn the clocks back to one year ago, and try this again?
Posted by: ParisParamus at November 01, 2009 11:38 AM (6dKO2)
3
is a good read Russ, thanks.
Posted by: Unclefacts, Summoner of Meteors at November 01, 2009 11:39 AM (erIg9)
4
It looks like mercy humping Dede the Moderate didn't work:
NY-23 . Scozzafava urging supporters to vote for the Democrat William L. Owens!During the day Saturday, she Scozzafava began to quietly and thoughtfully encourage her supporters to vote for Democrat William L. Owens.
Posted by: Pete-billy at November 01, 2009 11:05 AM (0Ubaf)
NY-23 . Scozzafava urging supporters to vote for the Democrat William L. Owens!During the day Saturday, she Scozzafava began to quietly and thoughtfully encourage her supporters to vote for Democrat William L. Owens.
Posted by: Pete-billy at November 01, 2009 11:05 AM (0Ubaf)
Posted by: andycanuck at November 01, 2009 11:43 AM (2qU2d)
5
Good one Russ!
Posted by: GarandFan at November 01, 2009 11:45 AM (ZQBnQ)
6
(There's a link in the "Scozzafava urges" line if my 'bluing' has camouflaged it. And thanks for booting conservative Canadian loyalists out of the big tent, Russ!)
/joke
/joke
Posted by: andycanuck at November 01, 2009 11:46 AM (2qU2d)
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at November 01, 2009 11:46 AM (L/t6y)
8
I have heard Glenn Beck talk about wanting to have an American Revolution and not a French Revolution,
I split with Beck on this. We already had our Revolution. We are just trying to preserve the stable structure that was alreadylaid down. The modern left are the modern incarnation of the French Revolution. The parallels are quite astounding. I wouldn't be surprised if the idiot left didn't try to adopt the Revolutionary Calendar as part of their drive to denigrate, demean, and destroy every aspect of American tradition. As the French Revolutionaries had the American example to learn from, but chose to ignore it and launch intofive unstable, silly and weak republics, the modern left just want to destroy what exists and pay no attention to anything that has actually worked. The ultimate in arrogance and stupidity, combined - very, very dangerous.
On the NY-23 race, I can't vouch for it, but this paper (which is openly in the tank for Owens)claims that Scuzzball is pointing her supporters towards Owens.
http://tinyurl.com/ycmlm3j
Unless Scuzzie comes out quicklyand roundly denounces the inference, I think we have to accept it as true.
I split with Beck on this. We already had our Revolution. We are just trying to preserve the stable structure that was alreadylaid down. The modern left are the modern incarnation of the French Revolution. The parallels are quite astounding. I wouldn't be surprised if the idiot left didn't try to adopt the Revolutionary Calendar as part of their drive to denigrate, demean, and destroy every aspect of American tradition. As the French Revolutionaries had the American example to learn from, but chose to ignore it and launch intofive unstable, silly and weak republics, the modern left just want to destroy what exists and pay no attention to anything that has actually worked. The ultimate in arrogance and stupidity, combined - very, very dangerous.
On the NY-23 race, I can't vouch for it, but this paper (which is openly in the tank for Owens)claims that Scuzzball is pointing her supporters towards Owens.
http://tinyurl.com/ycmlm3j
Unless Scuzzie comes out quicklyand roundly denounces the inference, I think we have to accept it as true.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 01, 2009 11:47 AM (A46hP)
9
During the day Saturday, she
Scozzafava began to quietly and thoughtfully encourage her supporters
to vote for Democrat William L. Owens.
Hey a RINO backstabbing the repubs! Imagine that!
Scozzafava began to quietly and thoughtfully encourage her supporters
to vote for Democrat William L. Owens.
Hey a RINO backstabbing the repubs! Imagine that!
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at November 01, 2009 11:47 AM (L/t6y)
10
Actually the major problem we right have is the information war.
Since the left controls the media, and the "moderates" are generally uninterested in pursuing information on their own, they get a large helping of leftist pablum. This seriously distorts the middle's voting patterns.
Think for a minute how far left this country has gone in the last year. If you listen to the media, what was centrist 4 years ago is now extreme right.
We have to start winning the information war if we want to start actually winning the policy war.
Since the left controls the media, and the "moderates" are generally uninterested in pursuing information on their own, they get a large helping of leftist pablum. This seriously distorts the middle's voting patterns.
Think for a minute how far left this country has gone in the last year. If you listen to the media, what was centrist 4 years ago is now extreme right.
We have to start winning the information war if we want to start actually winning the policy war.
Posted by: 18-1 at November 01, 2009 11:50 AM (bgcml)
11
You know what?Now that I think about it, I missed the BIGGEST example of a revolution that was based on payback against their oppressors producing a failed state. The Russian Revolution of 1917 produced one of the most dysfunctional states that the world has ever seen.
China, Cuba, Vietnam, Korea and every University Faculty in America were just following in the example of the Russian Revolution.
China, Cuba, Vietnam, Korea and every University Faculty in America were just following in the example of the Russian Revolution.
Posted by: Russ from Winterset at November 01, 2009 11:51 AM (/MEFr)
12
The Revolution we need to have right now is getting conservatives back into the statehouses. As they say all politics is local. A bloc of red and purple states standing together and challenging the fed. Virginians are getting ready to do that overwhelmingly and all the way down ticket too. Its our best hope right now to apply the emergency brake to the socialist express train this Congress and administration have us all on.
The Revolution we need to have right now is getting conservatives back into the statehouses. As they say all politics is local. A bloc of red and purple states standing together and challenging the fed. Virginians are getting ready to do that overwhelmingly and all the way down ticket too. Its our best hope right now to apply the emergency brake to the socialist express train this Congress and administration have us all on.
Posted by: Blazer at November 01, 2009 11:52 AM (+FzLa)
13
(There's a link in the "Scozzafava urges" line if my 'bluing' has camouflaged it. And thanks for booting conservative Canadian loyalists out of the big tent, Russ!)
/joke
Posted by: andycanuck at November 01, 2009 11:46 AM
Silly Andy. EVERYONE knows that Canadians don't have souls, and therefore aren't "real" people. Not that we don't like you, its just that we don't trust you to not suddenly go rampaging through the streets eating brains performing elaborate line dances with the deceased "King of Pop".
/joke
Posted by: andycanuck at November 01, 2009 11:46 AM
Silly Andy. EVERYONE knows that Canadians don't have souls, and therefore aren't "real" people. Not that we don't like you, its just that we don't trust you to not suddenly go rampaging through the streets eating brains performing elaborate line dances with the deceased "King of Pop".
Posted by: Russ from Winterset at November 01, 2009 11:53 AM (/MEFr)
14
Oh, and another point, we need to stop being so passive when we do acquire political power.
Look at Obama - he is doing his best to turn us into a banana Republic and whether he succeeds or not he is dragging us very far to the modern national socialist model of the Left.
When Bush had a similar political advantage he spent his time negotiating with the Left, pursuing centrist policies, and trying not to ruffle any feathers as best as he could.
There is no reason that we cannot try to advance revolutionary returns to constitutional government when we have the political might to do so...
Look at Obama - he is doing his best to turn us into a banana Republic and whether he succeeds or not he is dragging us very far to the modern national socialist model of the Left.
When Bush had a similar political advantage he spent his time negotiating with the Left, pursuing centrist policies, and trying not to ruffle any feathers as best as he could.
There is no reason that we cannot try to advance revolutionary returns to constitutional government when we have the political might to do so...
Posted by: 18-1 at November 01, 2009 11:54 AM (bgcml)
15
China, Cuba, Vietnam, Korea and every University Faculty in America were just following in the example of the Russian Revolution.
Posted by: Russ from Winterset at November 01, 2009 11:51 AM (/MEFr)
But the French Revolution was the one to establish that pattern of needing to utterly destroy the opposition. That was the only major "contribution" of the French Revolution, when it comes down to it.
Posted by: Russ from Winterset at November 01, 2009 11:51 AM (/MEFr)
But the French Revolution was the one to establish that pattern of needing to utterly destroy the opposition. That was the only major "contribution" of the French Revolution, when it comes down to it.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 01, 2009 11:55 AM (A46hP)
16
Nice writing, Russ!
Posted by: rawmuse at November 01, 2009 11:57 AM (dsExj)
17
Hey a RINO backstabbing the repubs!
The race I find most fascinating is the NYC Bloomberg vs Thompson.
Oba Mao has endorsed Thompson and is running ads stating that Bloomberg is a Republican however life-long-Democrat-turned-Republican-so-he-could win- Bloomberg left the Republican Party for the Independent Party when the cool kidz started whining about how he is a NAZI just like GuilianiBush.
What do wise and all-knowing Moderate voters think of Mayor Nanny-Mommy Mike 'terrorism? what terrorism, get a life! I'm banning FAT!' Bloomberg?
Is Mike Bloomberg, leader of the Capital of the Enlightened World, a Democrat, a Republican, an Independent, a Moderate? What?
The race I find most fascinating is the NYC Bloomberg vs Thompson.
Oba Mao has endorsed Thompson and is running ads stating that Bloomberg is a Republican however life-long-Democrat-turned-Republican-so-he-could win- Bloomberg left the Republican Party for the Independent Party when the cool kidz started whining about how he is a NAZI just like GuilianiBush.
What do wise and all-knowing Moderate voters think of Mayor Nanny-Mommy Mike 'terrorism? what terrorism, get a life! I'm banning FAT!' Bloomberg?
Is Mike Bloomberg, leader of the Capital of the Enlightened World, a Democrat, a Republican, an Independent, a Moderate? What?
Posted by: syn at November 01, 2009 11:58 AM (PkSox)
18
But the French Revolution was the
one to establish that pattern of needing to utterly destroy the
opposition. That was the only major "contribution" of the French
Revolution, when it comes down to it.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 01, 2009 11:55 AM (A46hP)
Well, I would say there was at least one other key "contributions":Total politicization of life. Like the international and national socialists that followed them, the French revolutionaries weren't happy to replace their societies leaders and some social structures. They tried to replace everything - even the calendar.One can see the big difference here from the Americans who tried to replace only what needed to be.Once can see this total politicization in the modern Left. It is in fact one of its most striking characteristics.
one to establish that pattern of needing to utterly destroy the
opposition. That was the only major "contribution" of the French
Revolution, when it comes down to it.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 01, 2009 11:55 AM (A46hP)
Well, I would say there was at least one other key "contributions":Total politicization of life. Like the international and national socialists that followed them, the French revolutionaries weren't happy to replace their societies leaders and some social structures. They tried to replace everything - even the calendar.One can see the big difference here from the Americans who tried to replace only what needed to be.Once can see this total politicization in the modern Left. It is in fact one of its most striking characteristics.
Posted by: 18-1 at November 01, 2009 11:59 AM (bgcml)
Posted by: hous bin pharteen at November 01, 2009 12:00 PM (pU4D7)
20
NY 23 is a case study for us all in more ways than one.
For years, RINOs have told us conservatives we must support the
"moderate" because the alternative (e.g. voting for an independent)
would be the election of the Democrat, and that would be bad. "Vote for
the RINO or your wallet and gun rights get it!" has been their threat.
With Dede's departure, I was tremendously curious to see this work both
ways; e.g. confirming that the Thurston Howell III country-club
Republicans would also support the conservative out of unity against
the Democrat. So now that Scozzafava and her husband are endorsing the Democrat,
we can put that myth to rest. RINOs have exposed themselves as
Democrats save for their desire to be personally taxed to hell.
Everything else - including the taxation of the middle class - is just
fine.
Given Scozzafava's turncoat behavior, I can comfortably declare that I
will never again vote for a RINO or Republican-ticket moderate. I'm
comfortable sinking their candidacy and letting them share in the
oppressive taxation and rights seizure of the Democrat as a thank you
for placing the RINO on the ticket. Newt and the other Republican ilk
should take notice: place libertarians and conservatives on the tickets
or fail. RINO extortion is over.
For years, RINOs have told us conservatives we must support the
"moderate" because the alternative (e.g. voting for an independent)
would be the election of the Democrat, and that would be bad. "Vote for
the RINO or your wallet and gun rights get it!" has been their threat.
With Dede's departure, I was tremendously curious to see this work both
ways; e.g. confirming that the Thurston Howell III country-club
Republicans would also support the conservative out of unity against
the Democrat. So now that Scozzafava and her husband are endorsing the Democrat,
we can put that myth to rest. RINOs have exposed themselves as
Democrats save for their desire to be personally taxed to hell.
Everything else - including the taxation of the middle class - is just
fine.
Given Scozzafava's turncoat behavior, I can comfortably declare that I
will never again vote for a RINO or Republican-ticket moderate. I'm
comfortable sinking their candidacy and letting them share in the
oppressive taxation and rights seizure of the Democrat as a thank you
for placing the RINO on the ticket. Newt and the other Republican ilk
should take notice: place libertarians and conservatives on the tickets
or fail. RINO extortion is over.
Posted by: Flyover Sam at November 01, 2009 12:03 PM (7r7wy)
21
They [French Revolutionaries]tried to replace everything - even the calendar.
Yes. I mentioned the Revolutionary Calendar in my first post. That was mostly an attempt to kill Christianity, as replacing the week with 10-day weeks was a good way to distance daily life from the periods that Christianity depended on. The French Revolutionaries just wanted to change everything that had been, for no reason other than to change it.
One can see the big difference here from the Americans who tried to replace only what needed to be.
Once can see this total politicization in the modern Left. It is in fact one of its most striking characteristics.
Posted by: 18-1 at November 01, 2009 11:59 AM (bgcml)
Yes. I have looked at the modern left as French Revolutionaries for quite a while, now. It is quite chilling, frankly.
Yes. I mentioned the Revolutionary Calendar in my first post. That was mostly an attempt to kill Christianity, as replacing the week with 10-day weeks was a good way to distance daily life from the periods that Christianity depended on. The French Revolutionaries just wanted to change everything that had been, for no reason other than to change it.
One can see the big difference here from the Americans who tried to replace only what needed to be.
Once can see this total politicization in the modern Left. It is in fact one of its most striking characteristics.
Posted by: 18-1 at November 01, 2009 11:59 AM (bgcml)
Yes. I have looked at the modern left as French Revolutionaries for quite a while, now. It is quite chilling, frankly.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 01, 2009 12:09 PM (A46hP)
22
Having read much about the French Revolution of late, I think King Louis was pretty much an inbred nincompoop and an incompetent King. I would have wanted his head as well.
But Marie got a raw deal, starting with her arranged marriage to Louis. It all went downhill from there.
But Marie got a raw deal, starting with her arranged marriage to Louis. It all went downhill from there.
Posted by: rawmuse at November 01, 2009 12:10 PM (dsExj)
23
Good stuff.
1. Be gracious winners
This is probably especially challenging for political blogs, but still possible, and necessary. The thought that Newt would have to seek ‘forgiveness’ to be welcome in conservative circles is ridiculous.
2. Don't moderate your views to win support from moderates.
Excellent point, in any time. Moderate your language, to the degree you are trying to ensure moderates will listen to you, but don’t moderate your views. If you don't think conservative views are extreme, don't treat them as such.
3. Take the long view, and don't rest on your laurels.
And don’t rely on national emergencies to paper-over your lack of accomplishments, ala GOP 2001-2006.
4. Set a place at the table for those without religious faith.
I am pretty sure that every conservative stance can be defended without one reference to religion.
1. Be gracious winners
This is probably especially challenging for political blogs, but still possible, and necessary. The thought that Newt would have to seek ‘forgiveness’ to be welcome in conservative circles is ridiculous.
2. Don't moderate your views to win support from moderates.
Excellent point, in any time. Moderate your language, to the degree you are trying to ensure moderates will listen to you, but don’t moderate your views. If you don't think conservative views are extreme, don't treat them as such.
3. Take the long view, and don't rest on your laurels.
And don’t rely on national emergencies to paper-over your lack of accomplishments, ala GOP 2001-2006.
4. Set a place at the table for those without religious faith.
I am pretty sure that every conservative stance can be defended without one reference to religion.
Posted by: CJ at November 01, 2009 12:11 PM (JQtNT)
24
EVERYONE knows that Canadians don't have souls, and therefore aren't "real" people.
8=^(
It's true. It's true. Just like American MSM.
8=^(
It's true. It's true. Just like American MSM.
Posted by: andycanuck at November 01, 2009 12:12 PM (2qU2d)
25
Russ,
I'm with Reagan on this way. those that do not want conservatism in the GOP need "to go their own way" As a believer in freedom and individual liberty I have no problem on keeping the social issues in the church or local governments (abortion is another case where a case can be made that it is murder and the unborn should have the protection of the consiutition) but gay marriage, school prayer etc needs to be local and in the churchesimo. However the GOP must stand for those conservative veiwpoints of fiscal conservative, strong national defense, law and order, and individual freedom. If the GOP would concentrate on those issues for government while being a moral example in their daily lives I think both the fiscal cons, the social cons and the hawks will find agreement on the 80/20 rule. I could care less if someone is a homosexual as long as he doesn't try to force his lifestyle on me or my children.
I'm with Reagan on this way. those that do not want conservatism in the GOP need "to go their own way" As a believer in freedom and individual liberty I have no problem on keeping the social issues in the church or local governments (abortion is another case where a case can be made that it is murder and the unborn should have the protection of the consiutition) but gay marriage, school prayer etc needs to be local and in the churchesimo. However the GOP must stand for those conservative veiwpoints of fiscal conservative, strong national defense, law and order, and individual freedom. If the GOP would concentrate on those issues for government while being a moral example in their daily lives I think both the fiscal cons, the social cons and the hawks will find agreement on the 80/20 rule. I could care less if someone is a homosexual as long as he doesn't try to force his lifestyle on me or my children.
Posted by: unseen at November 01, 2009 12:14 PM (M5zWC)
26
RINO extortion is over.
Now why would you deny yourself an opportunity to be part of the great political masterpiece enjoyed by those of us living in the Capital of the Enlightened World?
Don't you want....
- your fat banned,
-your cities blow to bits,
- your meanie Greenie NBC-GE machine dictating the size of your toilet paper and the type of light bulb you can screw,
-your taxes increased on everything which moves including those babies moving in the womb,
-to spend $20 grand per student per school year indoctrinating stupid
- the thought-police,
- the hate-crime police
-and lots and lots and lots of abortion with porn on the side to help alleviate the guilt
-plus all the free condoms you can use during those special internet sessions.
Come on Man; be part of the cool crowd, it's super hip.
Now why would you deny yourself an opportunity to be part of the great political masterpiece enjoyed by those of us living in the Capital of the Enlightened World?
Don't you want....
- your fat banned,
-your cities blow to bits,
- your meanie Greenie NBC-GE machine dictating the size of your toilet paper and the type of light bulb you can screw,
-your taxes increased on everything which moves including those babies moving in the womb,
-to spend $20 grand per student per school year indoctrinating stupid
- the thought-police,
- the hate-crime police
-and lots and lots and lots of abortion with porn on the side to help alleviate the guilt
-plus all the free condoms you can use during those special internet sessions.
Come on Man; be part of the cool crowd, it's super hip.
Posted by: syn at November 01, 2009 12:17 PM (PkSox)
27
Federalist #27...ah good times. That Hamilton really took it to her.
Posted by: KelliD at November 01, 2009 12:21 PM (Q9Cny)
28
This was a great read. It seems to me that, we as conservatives, need three things: Patience, Determination and Focus.
We need to focus like a laser beam on our goals, how to accomplish those goals and those candidates best equipped to help us achieve them.
We need to be determined enough to do what it takes to get to the Promised Land. Whether that's going door to door for a candidate, putting out signs, manning a phone bank, helping to register like-minded voters orgetting them turned out. The unions are really good at turn out and we need the mirror image of those organizational skills.
The Left is also really good at tapping their wealthy. Just look at all of the organizations, both online and "brick and mortar", funded by George Soros. We need our wealthy to get into the game in the same way.
Finally, we need patience. It has taken the Left 80 years to inflict the level of damage we see in our country. But they were patient, almost systematic. The damage won't be undone overnight.
We are going to need those people who we agree with 80/20.
We need to focus like a laser beam on our goals, how to accomplish those goals and those candidates best equipped to help us achieve them.
We need to be determined enough to do what it takes to get to the Promised Land. Whether that's going door to door for a candidate, putting out signs, manning a phone bank, helping to register like-minded voters orgetting them turned out. The unions are really good at turn out and we need the mirror image of those organizational skills.
The Left is also really good at tapping their wealthy. Just look at all of the organizations, both online and "brick and mortar", funded by George Soros. We need our wealthy to get into the game in the same way.
Finally, we need patience. It has taken the Left 80 years to inflict the level of damage we see in our country. But they were patient, almost systematic. The damage won't be undone overnight.
We are going to need those people who we agree with 80/20.
Posted by: Conservative1st at November 01, 2009 12:22 PM (iTe8G)
29
So now the fat pig has shown her true colors and endorsed the democrat. Now what are all the no purity big tent morons going to say?
She is exactly what conservatives said she was, a liberal democrat claiming to be a Republican just to get elected. And morons like Newt bought her bullshit hook line and sinker.
As for last night's commentary, she isn't nice. She's a scumbag union goon supporter who outright stole money from conservatives who stupidly donated to the RNC.
Hopefully this will be the end of that fat disgraceful pig, and any alleged Republican who supported her candidacy.
She is exactly what conservatives said she was, a liberal democrat claiming to be a Republican just to get elected. And morons like Newt bought her bullshit hook line and sinker.
As for last night's commentary, she isn't nice. She's a scumbag union goon supporter who outright stole money from conservatives who stupidly donated to the RNC.
Hopefully this will be the end of that fat disgraceful pig, and any alleged Republican who supported her candidacy.
Posted by: Jack Burton at November 01, 2009 12:22 PM (YxJoH)
30
Silly Andy. EVERYONE knows that
Canadians don't have souls, and therefore aren't "real" people. Not
that we don't like you, its just that we don't trust you to not
suddenly go rampaging through the streets eating brains
performing elaborate line dances with the deceased "King of Pop".
Posted by: Russ from Winterset at November 01, 2009 11:53 AM (/MEFr)
that, and that whole "Canadian bacon" thing. That right there is grounds for war.
Canadians don't have souls, and therefore aren't "real" people. Not
that we don't like you, its just that we don't trust you to not
suddenly go rampaging through the streets eating brains
performing elaborate line dances with the deceased "King of Pop".
Posted by: Russ from Winterset at November 01, 2009 11:53 AM (/MEFr)
that, and that whole "Canadian bacon" thing. That right there is grounds for war.
Posted by: Unclefacts, Summoner of Meteors at November 01, 2009 12:22 PM (erIg9)
Posted by: Blazer at November 01, 2009 12:22 PM (+FzLa)
32
Posted by: syn at November 01, 2009 12:17 PM (PkSox)
For your list, don't forget the total rape of property rights (the most imporant rights for individual liberty and a capitalist society)in order to stop the perfectly legal, and hugely taxed, act of smoking.
For your list, don't forget the total rape of property rights (the most imporant rights for individual liberty and a capitalist society)in order to stop the perfectly legal, and hugely taxed, act of smoking.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 01, 2009 12:23 PM (A46hP)
33
Look at Obama - he is doing his best to turn us into a banana Republic
and whether he succeeds or not he is dragging us very far to the modern
national socialist model of the Left
I agree. Name me one country that socialism made the country a better place?
The thing is, I am also tired about the far left has depicted this all about racism. Conservatism would do allot better between both racists. Left wingers claim to favor minorities, but they really don't. Democratic cities have never done much to help. I went to catholic grade school in one eastern city and at that time two of my close buddies were black. Color did not matter. By going to a liberal infected college, everyone their had its own racial clicks. Asian, Hispanic, Afro-American, leftist snobs, etc.
and whether he succeeds or not he is dragging us very far to the modern
national socialist model of the Left
I agree. Name me one country that socialism made the country a better place?
The thing is, I am also tired about the far left has depicted this all about racism. Conservatism would do allot better between both racists. Left wingers claim to favor minorities, but they really don't. Democratic cities have never done much to help. I went to catholic grade school in one eastern city and at that time two of my close buddies were black. Color did not matter. By going to a liberal infected college, everyone their had its own racial clicks. Asian, Hispanic, Afro-American, leftist snobs, etc.
Posted by: hous bin pharteen at November 01, 2009 12:24 PM (pU4D7)
Posted by: Techie at November 01, 2009 12:25 PM (cxW4X)
35
Ace and AP are just kissy kissy about all of this. Are they part of the elites too....Has Ace and AP been on moonlight walks through the neighborhood with Al, and asking for a seat on the sofa with Nancy?
If Soros money is involved in any of this kissy kissy I hope they give it to the both of them in pennies.
They have stolen Minn....they are trying to screw all of elections from now on....if the so called elites, I like to think of them as bottom feeders) have thrown in with these guys then we should find out.
Why isn't Steele in NY kicking A over the dirty tricks already being used there?
Who are the eleven that put forth scuzzy...Names, faxes an emails please.
Soros money is big (afterall its ours too) and has no ending.
McLame took his from ACORN and Soros during amnesty kerfuffle....seems things have been weird ever since.
If Soros money is involved in any of this kissy kissy I hope they give it to the both of them in pennies.
They have stolen Minn....they are trying to screw all of elections from now on....if the so called elites, I like to think of them as bottom feeders) have thrown in with these guys then we should find out.
Why isn't Steele in NY kicking A over the dirty tricks already being used there?
Who are the eleven that put forth scuzzy...Names, faxes an emails please.
Soros money is big (afterall its ours too) and has no ending.
McLame took his from ACORN and Soros during amnesty kerfuffle....seems things have been weird ever since.
Posted by: non_dhimmie at November 01, 2009 12:27 PM (cFwGO)
36
Because if the Party needs anything right now, its nominal Republicans endorsing Democrat candidates................
Posted by: Techie at November 01, 2009 12:28 PM (cxW4X)
37
Also cocks.
Posted by: The guy who says, "Also cocks" at November 01, 2009 12:31 PM (QBQcg)
38
One consolation is that the Left is hooked on Soros money, and he has to die someday.
It'll be hard to adjust to life without "Oh, here's $50 million. Go screw over those Republicans"
It'll be hard to adjust to life without "Oh, here's $50 million. Go screw over those Republicans"
Posted by: Techie at November 01, 2009 12:31 PM (cxW4X)
39
A bloc of red and purple states standing together and challenging the fed. Virginians are getting ready to do that overwhelmingly and all the way down ticket too.
Posted by: Blazer at November 01, 2009 11:52 AM (+FzLa)
Maybe I misunderstood your post, but I don't see McDonnell and Co. getting ready to invoke the 10th Amendment. That was one of the biggest disappointments of his campaign (along w/sucking up to Palin during the summer and then getting RINOized by a campaign strategist and treating her like dog doo), and I let him know, in e-mails, phone calls and talking to his door-to-door volunteers.
He said absolutely nothing aboutVirginia's sovreignty that I heard of. I was hoping for a Texas-like conservative who was ready to tell Obi-Won to stuffhis federal programs. I worry that McDonnell's going to end up being just another RINO.
Posted by: Blazer at November 01, 2009 11:52 AM (+FzLa)
Maybe I misunderstood your post, but I don't see McDonnell and Co. getting ready to invoke the 10th Amendment. That was one of the biggest disappointments of his campaign (along w/sucking up to Palin during the summer and then getting RINOized by a campaign strategist and treating her like dog doo), and I let him know, in e-mails, phone calls and talking to his door-to-door volunteers.
He said absolutely nothing aboutVirginia's sovreignty that I heard of. I was hoping for a Texas-like conservative who was ready to tell Obi-Won to stuffhis federal programs. I worry that McDonnell's going to end up being just another RINO.
Posted by: RushBabe at November 01, 2009 12:31 PM (LKkE8)
40
Reason #4,376: Why NY-23, NJ, and VA are important (h/t Moe Lane redstate.com - instapundit)
Reporting from Los Angeles and Sacramento - Starting
Sunday, cash-strapped California will dig deeper into the pocketbooks
of wage earners -- holding back 10% more than it already does in state
income taxes just as the biggest shopping season of the year kicks into
gear.Technically, it's not a tax increase, even though it may
feel like one when your next paycheck arrives. As part of a bundle of
budget patches adopted in the summer, the state is taking more money
now in withholding, even though workers' annual tax bills won't change.
Imagine the chagrin next year if the great state of California doesn't have the cash to refund that extra withholding.
Reporting from Los Angeles and Sacramento - Starting
Sunday, cash-strapped California will dig deeper into the pocketbooks
of wage earners -- holding back 10% more than it already does in state
income taxes just as the biggest shopping season of the year kicks into
gear.Technically, it's not a tax increase, even though it may
feel like one when your next paycheck arrives. As part of a bundle of
budget patches adopted in the summer, the state is taking more money
now in withholding, even though workers' annual tax bills won't change.
Imagine the chagrin next year if the great state of California doesn't have the cash to refund that extra withholding.
Posted by: mrp at November 01, 2009 12:32 PM (HjPtV)
41
If the Great State of Kah-leefornia issues refunds in IOUs, there may be pitchforks, tar and feathers.
If there isn't, then the Republic truly is doomed, because every other state with a budget crisis will do likewise.
If there isn't, then the Republic truly is doomed, because every other state with a budget crisis will do likewise.
Posted by: Techie at November 01, 2009 12:34 PM (cxW4X)
42
38 One consolation is that the Left is hooked on Soros money, and he has to die someday.It'll be hard to adjust to life without "Oh, here's $50 million. Go screw over those Republicans"
Posted by: Techie at November 01, 2009 12:31 PM (cxW4X)
I used to console myself with that fact too, until I heard that filty-lucre George has a whole cabal of like-minded minions in his camp. He's going to leave that dough to some commie organization when he goes on the right side of the dirtwith orders on how to keep doling it out.
Posted by: Techie at November 01, 2009 12:31 PM (cxW4X)
I used to console myself with that fact too, until I heard that filty-lucre George has a whole cabal of like-minded minions in his camp. He's going to leave that dough to some commie organization when he goes on the right side of the dirtwith orders on how to keep doling it out.
Posted by: RushBabe at November 01, 2009 12:37 PM (LKkE8)
43
He said absolutely nothing aboutVirginia's
sovreignty that I heard of. I was hoping for a Texas-like conservative
who was ready to tell Obi-Won to stuffhis federal programs. I worry
that McDonnell's going to end up being just another RINO.
Posted by: RushBabe at November 01, 2009 12:31 PM (LKkE
He has talked about not including Virginia in the healthcare debacle and any of its tax money going towards it. Thats about as close to the tenth as you can get without mentioning it.
Now if thats just tuff talk during a campaign and he does indeed turn out to be a RINO, only time will tell, but I think he's the real deal.
sovreignty that I heard of. I was hoping for a Texas-like conservative
who was ready to tell Obi-Won to stuffhis federal programs. I worry
that McDonnell's going to end up being just another RINO.
Posted by: RushBabe at November 01, 2009 12:31 PM (LKkE
He has talked about not including Virginia in the healthcare debacle and any of its tax money going towards it. Thats about as close to the tenth as you can get without mentioning it.
Now if thats just tuff talk during a campaign and he does indeed turn out to be a RINO, only time will tell, but I think he's the real deal.
Posted by: Blazer at November 01, 2009 12:40 PM (+FzLa)
44
This was no fluke, the silent majority has spoken. What happens next is more up to the GOP than anything.
Posted by: Dan F at November 01, 2009 12:46 PM (nyFP6)
45
I haz all ur RINO's
Posted by: Zombie Quisling at November 01, 2009 12:49 PM (sx341)
46
Yesterday I thought she dropped out becasue she was giving the nod to Hoffman. Now, to find her giving her nod to Owens, the dem. it makes you realize what a total disaaster the NYS legislature really is. The quality of people that NY er's have elected to those spots is abyssmal. Basically, a legislature was thrust upon NYer's. When it began, very recently, most nyer's were totally unaware of what a game changing situation the people running for these seats represented. They are, for the most part, a total embarrassment for NY. If you polled NYer's, no matter what eliot did, they want him back. My takeaway from the morning shows is that Owens will win comfortably. They did do a lot of conservative bashing this morning. Sounded like a lot of folks on this blog. In discussing the republican party the morning shows I saw concluded that the conservatives are trying to take over the republican party and that this is going to prove to be a bad thing since the dems are waiting with open arms and their "big tent" for all those moderate//republicans. who are called RINO's. Mary Matelin invited them to go to the dems and her hubby said "plenty of room come on over" Seems like the dems want a say in the crafting of the "new republican party". In a place like NY 23, someone like Dede, should she elect to do a whispering campaign could make everyone who supported Hoffman shocked to their shoes and I'm thinking this will happen. she is probably making those calls right now, saying "this guy, not even from our district, supported by the conservative machine, cannot be elected or we will lose control. Better to put a local guy, Owens, in, even if he is a dem, than lose control to the conservative bosses". After watching this morning, felt there is no way Hoffman will win, the dems feel they have too much ot lose.
Posted by: curious at November 01, 2009 01:02 PM (p302b)
47
Well, unlike the kiss asses around here, I'd rather lose the Republican party to conservatives than democrats. Think about it.
Posted by: Jack Burton at November 01, 2009 01:05 PM (YxJoH)
48
Oh, and another thing - while I am very much in favor of duplicating much of the left's tactics, we need to recognize that not all of their tactics will work for us, based on intrinsic differences in the base of the left and right.
The left, for example, has a career path for politicians and activists, with endless government organizations, well funded NGOs, and explicitly leftwing "businesses" always willing to hire such people.
We do not have that. Could we create it? Maybe, if we could find the money...but it is still harder to convince someone to make politics their life when they believe that one of the major problems of the day is too much government/politics interfering in people's lives. Additionally, most conservatives in the business world are interested in...business...not using work as an excuse for political activism.
Any long term strategy we look at then, has to consider that we probably can't duplicate the left's long march through the institutions...
The left, for example, has a career path for politicians and activists, with endless government organizations, well funded NGOs, and explicitly leftwing "businesses" always willing to hire such people.
We do not have that. Could we create it? Maybe, if we could find the money...but it is still harder to convince someone to make politics their life when they believe that one of the major problems of the day is too much government/politics interfering in people's lives. Additionally, most conservatives in the business world are interested in...business...not using work as an excuse for political activism.
Any long term strategy we look at then, has to consider that we probably can't duplicate the left's long march through the institutions...
Posted by: 18-1 at November 01, 2009 01:06 PM (bgcml)
49
While I think a constitutional convention is more likely than
any form of overt revolution at the national level, there is an alternative which has appeared in America before, and could quite possibly appear again, Committees of Vigilance.
In particular, the 1856 one in San Francisco had distinctly political/anti-corruption purposes and created a new local political party that was eventually absorbed by the GOP
after being in control for a year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Committee_of_Vigilance
any form of overt revolution at the national level, there is an alternative which has appeared in America before, and could quite possibly appear again, Committees of Vigilance.
In particular, the 1856 one in San Francisco had distinctly political/anti-corruption purposes and created a new local political party that was eventually absorbed by the GOP
after being in control for a year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Committee_of_Vigilance
Posted by: ManeiNeko at November 01, 2009 01:07 PM (KPgt9)
50
One consolation is that the Left is hooked on Soros money, and he has to die someday.
It'll be hard to adjust to life without "Oh, here's $50 million. Go screw over those Republicans"
Unfortunately, his sons are every bit as destructive-lefty as he is, so the Soros money will continue to flow to the left even when papa Soros is having his big date with the barbed cock of Satan.
It'll be hard to adjust to life without "Oh, here's $50 million. Go screw over those Republicans"
Unfortunately, his sons are every bit as destructive-lefty as he is, so the Soros money will continue to flow to the left even when papa Soros is having his big date with the barbed cock of Satan.
Posted by: joncelli at November 01, 2009 01:15 PM (vPMF5)
51
Given Scozzafava's turncoat behavior, I can comfortably declare that I will never again vote for a RINO or Republican-ticket moderate. I'm comfortable sinking their candidacy and letting them share in the oppressive taxation and rights seizure of the Democrat as a thank you for placing the RINO on the ticket. Newt and the other Republican ilk should take notice: place libertarians and conservatives on the tickets or fail. RINO extortion is over.
Posted by: Flyover Sam at November 01, 2009 12:03 PM
A-f'ing-men. 100% agreed.
Posted by: Flyover Sam at November 01, 2009 12:03 PM
A-f'ing-men. 100% agreed.
Posted by: Michael in MI at November 01, 2009 01:15 PM (ObTcs)
52
One consolation is that the Left is hooked on Soros money, and he has to die someday.
Except we have plenty more like Progressive Insurance Chairman Peter Lewis. Remember, when you're insuring with Progressive, you're voting for Obama.
Except we have plenty more like Progressive Insurance Chairman Peter Lewis. Remember, when you're insuring with Progressive, you're voting for Obama.
Posted by: Flyover Sam at November 01, 2009 01:18 PM (7r7wy)
53
The results of this race will be fun to analyze. Do dems not go to the polls because they assume thet will win.
I know the center and right of center will show up.
How far left will slightly left of center voters be willing to go?
I could go on, but I think I mad my point.
I know the center and right of center will show up.
How far left will slightly left of center voters be willing to go?
I could go on, but I think I mad my point.
Posted by: mghorning at November 01, 2009 01:22 PM (0Ot9I)
54
Republicans usually get about 66% of the vote from that district. I think it will be less this year
Posted by: John ryan at November 01, 2009 01:25 PM (m0Q2u)
55
I used to console myself with that fact too, until I heard that filty-lucre George has a whole cabal of like-minded minions in his camp. He's going to leave that dough to some commie organization when he goes on the right side of the dirt with orders on how to keep doling it out.
Posted by: RushBabe at November 01, 2009 12:37 PM
Exactly. Soros dying will mean nothing. He has already set up his 'empire' through all his communist organizations, through which all his money flows. When he dies, he'll no doubt have left his fortune to those organizations in his will.
Just check out his Discover the Networks page to find out just how evil he is and just how many organizations he has funded to spread his evil.
Posted by: RushBabe at November 01, 2009 12:37 PM
Exactly. Soros dying will mean nothing. He has already set up his 'empire' through all his communist organizations, through which all his money flows. When he dies, he'll no doubt have left his fortune to those organizations in his will.
Just check out his Discover the Networks page to find out just how evil he is and just how many organizations he has funded to spread his evil.
Posted by: Michael in MI at November 01, 2009 01:26 PM (ObTcs)
56
Nice essay but I have to differ on several issues.
I’ll address them in multiple posts since these are long weighty issues.
First, I haven’t seen a breakdown calling for the split to be 40% conservative, 40% moderate, and 20% liberal. The only polls I have seen are ones that say people generally think of themselves as “center-right”. That really doesn’t mean a damn thing. I have seen polls here in SC that said people supported the use of hybrid cars and saving the environment. That at the same time out of two years only one Toyota Prius hybrid had been sold in the State. People like to feel good about themselves and they think “moderate” means center of the road and not an extremist. That is the work of the MSM indoctrinating the gullible.
What I have heard a lot of, but I also think is wrong, is the old political saw about elections being won between the 40 yard lines meaning that the 20% on the left and the 20% on the right have no impact and that there is a large unaligned (60%) who decide.
I have also heard it said that there are a cadre of undecided 20% independents who decide the elections. I don’t buy that either. I think all of these myths are put out there by the media to stifle conservatives and to advance the careers of high paid political consultants.
My feeling is that yes there are a lot of independents and the number is growing larger every day. That being said, almost ALL of these independents normally vote for one party or the other pretty consistently. (Note all of these arguments assume we are talking about regular voters). For example, I am an independent but I have NEVER voted for a Democrat. I have voted for a third party candidate on two occasions, once for president and last year for Senator when Linseedoil Grahamnasty was reelected.
That, however, appears to be changing. Rasmussen had an interesting little statistic that fell out of his last poll Friday. It seems that 50% of identified conservatives do not consider themselves Republicans.
That should scare the hell out of the “big tent” party bosses.
I’ll address them in multiple posts since these are long weighty issues.
First, I haven’t seen a breakdown calling for the split to be 40% conservative, 40% moderate, and 20% liberal. The only polls I have seen are ones that say people generally think of themselves as “center-right”. That really doesn’t mean a damn thing. I have seen polls here in SC that said people supported the use of hybrid cars and saving the environment. That at the same time out of two years only one Toyota Prius hybrid had been sold in the State. People like to feel good about themselves and they think “moderate” means center of the road and not an extremist. That is the work of the MSM indoctrinating the gullible.
What I have heard a lot of, but I also think is wrong, is the old political saw about elections being won between the 40 yard lines meaning that the 20% on the left and the 20% on the right have no impact and that there is a large unaligned (60%) who decide.
I have also heard it said that there are a cadre of undecided 20% independents who decide the elections. I don’t buy that either. I think all of these myths are put out there by the media to stifle conservatives and to advance the careers of high paid political consultants.
My feeling is that yes there are a lot of independents and the number is growing larger every day. That being said, almost ALL of these independents normally vote for one party or the other pretty consistently. (Note all of these arguments assume we are talking about regular voters). For example, I am an independent but I have NEVER voted for a Democrat. I have voted for a third party candidate on two occasions, once for president and last year for Senator when Linseedoil Grahamnasty was reelected.
That, however, appears to be changing. Rasmussen had an interesting little statistic that fell out of his last poll Friday. It seems that 50% of identified conservatives do not consider themselves Republicans.
That should scare the hell out of the “big tent” party bosses.
Posted by: Vic at November 01, 2009 01:30 PM (CDUiN)
57
I think the one thing that pisses me off the most about fat Dede, and her apologists, is her support of card check. Unfortunately, in my line of work we deal with union agitation and I can tell you I've never seen a more disgusting group of people who will stop at nothing to get power and put non-union firms out of business. Al Capone has nothing on these assholes. So when I hear things like Dede, supporter of card check, is a nice person, it makes me sick to my stomach. Those people are fucking criminals who relay on harassment and intimidation to get their way.
Posted by: Jack Burton at November 01, 2009 01:40 PM (YxJoH)
58
I always enjoy Russ' posts.
Hope Mrs. Winterset and young (Moses , wasn't it ?) are doing well .
Keep us posted on deer season in Iowa as well . There are a lot of venison junkies around Acecorp .
Hope Mrs. Winterset and young (Moses , wasn't it ?) are doing well .
Keep us posted on deer season in Iowa as well . There are a lot of venison junkies around Acecorp .
Posted by: akward davies at November 01, 2009 01:44 PM (wb68R)
59
"My feeling is that yes there are a lot of independents and the number is growing larger every day. "
That may have been true b-4, but not so much now.. I have always voted for democrats.. the only exception was for Reagan... I was one of those "Reagan Democrats"
There is no more a "democratic" party, people like liberman have been kicked out... if you are for fiscal responsibility, pro-freemarket, pro-indiv. rights, pro-US-military, agn socialized care, agnst card check... you are too "conservative"... this is the marxist party now..
I suppose I really don't belong to either party now... I voted for Palin as a registered democrat last year..... and will support her should shechoose to run... I am pro-choice, but for me there are bigger issues than abortion..... theeconomic and national security strenght of this country is much more important..as is the defense of indivisual rights and freedom...
I have been to tea party meetings and was surprised how many disaffected dems were in attendance there...
That may have been true b-4, but not so much now.. I have always voted for democrats.. the only exception was for Reagan... I was one of those "Reagan Democrats"
There is no more a "democratic" party, people like liberman have been kicked out... if you are for fiscal responsibility, pro-freemarket, pro-indiv. rights, pro-US-military, agn socialized care, agnst card check... you are too "conservative"... this is the marxist party now..
I suppose I really don't belong to either party now... I voted for Palin as a registered democrat last year..... and will support her should shechoose to run... I am pro-choice, but for me there are bigger issues than abortion..... theeconomic and national security strenght of this country is much more important..as is the defense of indivisual rights and freedom...
I have been to tea party meetings and was surprised how many disaffected dems were in attendance there...
Posted by: johnc_recent_EX-democrat at November 01, 2009 01:47 PM (ACkhT)
60
Second Part;
I don’t think comparisons of the American Revolution and the French Revolution are applicable in the case of the RINO vs Republican debate. There were major differences in these revolutions mainly because who was behind the actual push for the revolution.
The essential differences between them that really effected the outcome were these. In the U.S. the upper classes were the movement behind the revolution. The revolution was not peaceful as there were many people killed on both sides. The American revolution was performed in America an ocean away from the King and Parliament. In some cases, the King’s leaders here were mistreated, but they were rarely killed or executed.
The French revolution was led by a few firebrands and performed by an angry mob in the streets. They were largely unsuccessful until the military joined their cause. This is similar to the U.S. because they too were largely unsuccessful until supported by the French military.
At the end of the revolution the Americans allowed the King’s ministers who wanted to leave the country. The French mobs beheaded men, women, and children of the French aristocracy.
At the end of the American revolution the Americans set up a Republic because they did not trust the mobs. The French set up a Democracy and started voting themselves largess because they were the mobs. (That is where we are at now).
And on a side note, yes Marie Antoinette got a bad rap. Not only was she beheaded for no reason what-so-ever but the liberal press, like Rush, has been misquoting her for years. She never said about the French mobs to “let them eat cake” in a derisive and elitist moment. What she actually did and said was for the bakers to give them the high priced bread usually eaten by the rich instead of the coarser bread they were used to. She wanted them to get it at the same price as the courser bread. Thus proving once again that you can not satisfy liberal mobs by giving them bread (and circuses) and in the end the press will misquote you and demonize you.
I don’t think comparisons of the American Revolution and the French Revolution are applicable in the case of the RINO vs Republican debate. There were major differences in these revolutions mainly because who was behind the actual push for the revolution.
The essential differences between them that really effected the outcome were these. In the U.S. the upper classes were the movement behind the revolution. The revolution was not peaceful as there were many people killed on both sides. The American revolution was performed in America an ocean away from the King and Parliament. In some cases, the King’s leaders here were mistreated, but they were rarely killed or executed.
The French revolution was led by a few firebrands and performed by an angry mob in the streets. They were largely unsuccessful until the military joined their cause. This is similar to the U.S. because they too were largely unsuccessful until supported by the French military.
At the end of the revolution the Americans allowed the King’s ministers who wanted to leave the country. The French mobs beheaded men, women, and children of the French aristocracy.
At the end of the American revolution the Americans set up a Republic because they did not trust the mobs. The French set up a Democracy and started voting themselves largess because they were the mobs. (That is where we are at now).
And on a side note, yes Marie Antoinette got a bad rap. Not only was she beheaded for no reason what-so-ever but the liberal press, like Rush, has been misquoting her for years. She never said about the French mobs to “let them eat cake” in a derisive and elitist moment. What she actually did and said was for the bakers to give them the high priced bread usually eaten by the rich instead of the coarser bread they were used to. She wanted them to get it at the same price as the courser bread. Thus proving once again that you can not satisfy liberal mobs by giving them bread (and circuses) and in the end the press will misquote you and demonize you.
Posted by: Vic at November 01, 2009 01:50 PM (CDUiN)
61
Great post, Russ. I agree with 80% of what you said, so count me in.
Posted by: FireHorse at November 01, 2009 01:53 PM (Vl5GH)
62
Russ from Winterset is alive and well.
I thought you were the guy attacking zombies at that restaurant.
I thought you were the guy attacking zombies at that restaurant.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 01, 2009 01:56 PM (P33XN)
63
That may have been true b-4, but not so much now.. I have always voted for democrats.. the only exception was for Reagan... I was one of those "Reagan Democrats"
Not sure if you catch the difference between someone who is an independent and someone who is a party member.
An independent is someone who is not registered with any party. They do however normally always vote with one of the two major parties. Thus making them not really true ‘independents”.
What I have heard from multiple polling services, including the Ras, is that the numbers of independents are increasing. This does reflect dissatisfaction among BOTH party’s members.
Not sure if you catch the difference between someone who is an independent and someone who is a party member.
An independent is someone who is not registered with any party. They do however normally always vote with one of the two major parties. Thus making them not really true ‘independents”.
What I have heard from multiple polling services, including the Ras, is that the numbers of independents are increasing. This does reflect dissatisfaction among BOTH party’s members.
Posted by: Vic at November 01, 2009 01:56 PM (CDUiN)
64
No need for silly revolution talk. Most of those who say it have no idea what a revolution is like or even what the word means.
All that is needed is for people to get involved. Get out of your seat and move your a55 to your local party and get to work. If you don't, others will. It is actually easy to make change happen at the local level. All you need to do is get involved.
All that is needed is for people to get involved. Get out of your seat and move your a55 to your local party and get to work. If you don't, others will. It is actually easy to make change happen at the local level. All you need to do is get involved.
Posted by: CDR Salamander at November 01, 2009 02:01 PM (6MphA)
65
johnc_recent_EX-democrat:
Looking at your list there, how exactly do you differ from Republicans?
Just curious, it seems that your list is pretty much their platform (not saying the platform is what they always do, just saying).
Looking at your list there, how exactly do you differ from Republicans?
Just curious, it seems that your list is pretty much their platform (not saying the platform is what they always do, just saying).
Posted by: Merovign, Strong on His Mountain at November 01, 2009 02:04 PM (bxiXv)
66
I think the "This percentage of the country is this demographic" argument is a red herring to a large degree. The candidate who wins is the candidate who persuades the most people to get up off their behinds and vote for him. If you get more conservatives in the booth on Election Day -- and conservatives are desperate for a candidate they can believe in --it doesn't matter a whit what the percentages are throughout the country. Most people don't vote, and most conservatives won't vote if there's not a conservative candidate on the ticket.
I think Hoffman or some other conservativewould have been easily elected had he been the RNC's choice in the first place. I don't know if this upheaval came soon enough to get him elected.
I think Hoffman or some other conservativewould have been easily elected had he been the RNC's choice in the first place. I don't know if this upheaval came soon enough to get him elected.
Posted by: barbelle at November 01, 2009 02:11 PM (qF8q3)
67
I hope ALL the RINO's defect to my DemoncRATick Party....where I'll subject them ALL to rape rape.
Posted by: Zombie Quisling at November 01, 2009 02:18 PM (sx341)
68
Here's my two-cents' worth, while I'm in the neighborhood: Let's please stop making reference to "taxpayers' money." Here's why:
1) It's inaccurate. Once I write a check to the United States Treasury and mail it, that money belongs to the United States Treasury. It doesn't belong to me any more.
You could say that the treasury is public funds so I really do own it in part, collectively with everybody else in the country -- but the government is an entity, as much as Time Warner Cable. (The cable guy is goofing off! What a waste of subscribers' money!) I don't direct how any of it is spent, so let's stop pretending that it's mine.
2) It facilitates irresponsibility. We keep telling Mr. Government to spend his money responsibly, simultaneously insisting that it's really not his money. Do we really expect anybody to handle money responsibly after we tell them that it's not theirs? Of course not. We want them to, then get angry -- over and over and over --when they don't. So let's give them the sense that it really is theirs.
Of course it really isn't their personal money, just like it's not mine, so review and control structures need to be put in place. So I'd also like to see the reviewers and controllersact as though it's their money, too.
End rant. That was probably off-topic, but if the Revolution is going to be one of ideas, that's one I think we need to change.
1) It's inaccurate. Once I write a check to the United States Treasury and mail it, that money belongs to the United States Treasury. It doesn't belong to me any more.
You could say that the treasury is public funds so I really do own it in part, collectively with everybody else in the country -- but the government is an entity, as much as Time Warner Cable. (The cable guy is goofing off! What a waste of subscribers' money!) I don't direct how any of it is spent, so let's stop pretending that it's mine.
2) It facilitates irresponsibility. We keep telling Mr. Government to spend his money responsibly, simultaneously insisting that it's really not his money. Do we really expect anybody to handle money responsibly after we tell them that it's not theirs? Of course not. We want them to, then get angry -- over and over and over --when they don't. So let's give them the sense that it really is theirs.
Of course it really isn't their personal money, just like it's not mine, so review and control structures need to be put in place. So I'd also like to see the reviewers and controllersact as though it's their money, too.
End rant. That was probably off-topic, but if the Revolution is going to be one of ideas, that's one I think we need to change.
Posted by: FireHorse at November 01, 2009 02:20 PM (Vl5GH)
69
Off-topic: the latest trailer for "Avatar" is up over at Rotten Tomatoes.
It's evidently a lovely story, full of evil humans who want to "relocate" the natives so they can tear down the forests and mine for a highly valuable mineral. And naturally, the "good' guy is thecrippled Marinewho turns against the humans so he can help the disadvantaged and poorly armed indigenous beings fight the technically superior, greedyinvaders.
I wouldn't watch this if you strapped me in a chair, pried my eyes open, and played a little Ludwig Van in the background. Cameron, I hope you lose a fortune.
It's evidently a lovely story, full of evil humans who want to "relocate" the natives so they can tear down the forests and mine for a highly valuable mineral. And naturally, the "good' guy is thecrippled Marinewho turns against the humans so he can help the disadvantaged and poorly armed indigenous beings fight the technically superior, greedyinvaders.
I wouldn't watch this if you strapped me in a chair, pried my eyes open, and played a little Ludwig Van in the background. Cameron, I hope you lose a fortune.
Posted by: barbelle at November 01, 2009 02:22 PM (qF8q3)
70
All that is needed is for people to get involved. Get out of your seat and move your a55 to your local party and get to work.
Oh, but it's so much easier to bitch and moan and day dream about a third party saving us all.
Oh, but it's so much easier to bitch and moan and day dream about a third party saving us all.
Posted by: Iskandar at November 01, 2009 02:22 PM (u1pln)
71
Merovign, Strong on His Mountain at November 01, 2009 02:04 PM (bxiXv)
well, I'm not republican... been a democrat pretty much all my life until end of last year when I switch over to be independent...
there was a time when in the democratic party, it was very pro-us military, pro-growth, pro-indiv rights... pro-free market... BUT the main reason I never swiched to independent was because those items I mentioned above were still a majority view in the dem. party, and on the social issues, it was more moderate... I am pro-choice... but against partial birth/late term abortion, for gay rights like in civil uinons BUT against gay marriage.....so this was why I stayed with the dem. party.... I consider myself more of a moderate when it comes to social issues.
but now.. the dem. party has turned full socialist/marixist... there is no even desire to adher to the founding principles of the country.. entitelments for everyone.. spend... spend.. spend..socialize everything that moves.
so the repubs.. I have no clue what they stand for ... but conservatives like Hoffman... at least I know I do disagree with him on some social issues... but I have more items to agree with him on.. like the fiscal/ no card check / no cap-n-tax... no socialized healthcare ... etc which is why I was happy to send him a good sized donation.
as for the big tent theory... there are social conservatives and fiscal/national security/indiv. rights conservatives... in the conservatives stay true to the second part and adhere to it, they will attract many indepedents like me, b/c after all freedome and indiv. rights are american principles..... but with people like Huckabee preaching social conservative.. nope.. I would not go for that tent..
well, I'm not republican... been a democrat pretty much all my life until end of last year when I switch over to be independent...
there was a time when in the democratic party, it was very pro-us military, pro-growth, pro-indiv rights... pro-free market... BUT the main reason I never swiched to independent was because those items I mentioned above were still a majority view in the dem. party, and on the social issues, it was more moderate... I am pro-choice... but against partial birth/late term abortion, for gay rights like in civil uinons BUT against gay marriage.....so this was why I stayed with the dem. party.... I consider myself more of a moderate when it comes to social issues.
but now.. the dem. party has turned full socialist/marixist... there is no even desire to adher to the founding principles of the country.. entitelments for everyone.. spend... spend.. spend..socialize everything that moves.
so the repubs.. I have no clue what they stand for ... but conservatives like Hoffman... at least I know I do disagree with him on some social issues... but I have more items to agree with him on.. like the fiscal/ no card check / no cap-n-tax... no socialized healthcare ... etc which is why I was happy to send him a good sized donation.
as for the big tent theory... there are social conservatives and fiscal/national security/indiv. rights conservatives... in the conservatives stay true to the second part and adhere to it, they will attract many indepedents like me, b/c after all freedome and indiv. rights are american principles..... but with people like Huckabee preaching social conservative.. nope.. I would not go for that tent..
Posted by: johnc_recent_EX-democrat at November 01, 2009 02:23 PM (ACkhT)
72
Third (and last)
Set a place at the table for those without religious faith.
I think that statement above is a hindrance to advancing conservatism and it buys into the MSM myth that conservatives are all religious zealots pushing social issues. I personally would prefer that we not mention religion at all. I now we will never get away from some conservatives pushing social issues but I would stress that those people also be REAL conservatives as well.
In other words, they need to be small government conservatives (see my post last night for def of a conservative) first and religious second. I know that it appears that that is backwards in priority, but we are talking politics here and not worship.
What I do not like to see is big government tax and spend liberals who also favor giving driver’s licenses to illegals being called a conservative because they are religious and are against abortion and gay marriage. They are not social-cons, they are social-libs.
And yes, I am talking about the Huck. Huck is a RINO.
LOL, after rereading this part of your post I realized we are in complete agreement here. Except I really don’t see a need to “set aside” places for religion, but neither do I want to purge them if they are not RINOs.
Set a place at the table for those without religious faith.
I think that statement above is a hindrance to advancing conservatism and it buys into the MSM myth that conservatives are all religious zealots pushing social issues. I personally would prefer that we not mention religion at all. I now we will never get away from some conservatives pushing social issues but I would stress that those people also be REAL conservatives as well.
In other words, they need to be small government conservatives (see my post last night for def of a conservative) first and religious second. I know that it appears that that is backwards in priority, but we are talking politics here and not worship.
What I do not like to see is big government tax and spend liberals who also favor giving driver’s licenses to illegals being called a conservative because they are religious and are against abortion and gay marriage. They are not social-cons, they are social-libs.
And yes, I am talking about the Huck. Huck is a RINO.
LOL, after rereading this part of your post I realized we are in complete agreement here. Except I really don’t see a need to “set aside” places for religion, but neither do I want to purge them if they are not RINOs.
Posted by: Vic at November 01, 2009 02:23 PM (CDUiN)
73
but with people like Huckabee preaching social conservative.. nope.. I would not go for that tent..
The Huck is NOT a conservative. That is another media driven myth.
The Huck is NOT a conservative. That is another media driven myth.
Posted by: Vic at November 01, 2009 02:29 PM (CDUiN)
74
In other words, they need to be small government conservatives (see my post last night for def of a conservative) first and religious second. I know that it appears that that is backwards in priority, but we are talking politics here and not worship.
Thank you. Why are many conservatives under the impression you MUST be religious to be conservative? 90 percent of the country is "religious."
Thank you. Why are many conservatives under the impression you MUST be religious to be conservative? 90 percent of the country is "religious."
Posted by: barbelle at November 01, 2009 02:31 PM (qF8q3)
75
I also meant to add... yes.. there was a time when dem.party was a party of smaller govt/lower taxes (JFK)...dems who belive this are being purged from the party.. me being one of them...
I don't really care if someone if pro-choice like me or not.. as long as they adher to the main american aka conservative principles of smaller govt, lower taxes, a pro-growth economy, more free market, more preservation of indivudial rights.. ..social conservatism is not that important to independents... they just want to be left alone... BUT conservatism of the other main issues I listed are what is important...
Huckabee I cannot stand... there is something about him I do not trust.. he's too preachy... there is just something about him I don't trust...
I don't really care if someone if pro-choice like me or not.. as long as they adher to the main american aka conservative principles of smaller govt, lower taxes, a pro-growth economy, more free market, more preservation of indivudial rights.. ..social conservatism is not that important to independents... they just want to be left alone... BUT conservatism of the other main issues I listed are what is important...
Huckabee I cannot stand... there is something about him I do not trust.. he's too preachy... there is just something about him I don't trust...
Posted by: johnc_recent_EX-democrat at November 01, 2009 02:31 PM (ACkhT)
76
Posted by: Vic at November 01, 2009 02:29 PM (CDUiN)
yep... MSM seems to think "conservatives" just means social-conservatives/ pro-life....and its a deception they continue to spew...
when I told my still-dems friends I was reregistering as an independent and voting for Palin.. they were stunned... I explained to them I am not voting for a self declared marxist! smaller govt.. indiv rights... THESE ARE AMERICAN PRINCIPLES... the media calls them conservative... but they are american principles, what this country was founded on...
yep... MSM seems to think "conservatives" just means social-conservatives/ pro-life....and its a deception they continue to spew...
when I told my still-dems friends I was reregistering as an independent and voting for Palin.. they were stunned... I explained to them I am not voting for a self declared marxist! smaller govt.. indiv rights... THESE ARE AMERICAN PRINCIPLES... the media calls them conservative... but they are american principles, what this country was founded on...
Posted by: johnc_recent_EX-democrat at November 01, 2009 02:35 PM (ACkhT)
77
"It looks like mercy humping Dede the Moderate didn't work ..."
The point of being civil to Scozzafava is not to convince her of anything, but to make Hoffman attractive to her supporters, so they'll at least consider switching to him. We'll see if it worked after the election and we have some idea of who her supporters voted for.
"It looks like mercy humping Dede the Moderate didn't work ..."
The point of being civil to Scozzafava is not to convince her of anything, but to make Hoffman attractive to her supporters, so they'll at least consider switching to him. We'll see if it worked after the election and we have some idea of who her supporters voted for.
Posted by: Brown Line at November 01, 2009 02:38 PM (WZGrX)
78
1) It's inaccurate.
Once I write a check to the United States Treasury and mail it, that
money belongs to the United States Treasury. It doesn't belong to me
any more. Posted by: FireHorse
So that whole part about a government "by the people, for the people, and of the people" was what? Window dressing? The Fed derives it's powers from us, not the other way around. It's a government because we say it is.
2) It facilitates irresponsibility.
Couldn't disagree more. There's no responsibility imparted to those that serve in Congress for a few years because they want to see the funds as 'their funds.' They don't; they see the money as an easy way to pay back constituents for their election. Second, the impersonal aspect of the arrangement is still present. An individual congress critter is only 1/535 of the congress. The relationship between one critter and several trillion dollars of taxes is close enough anonymity.
There is no parsimony gained by acting like the 3 Monkeys.
Once I write a check to the United States Treasury and mail it, that
money belongs to the United States Treasury. It doesn't belong to me
any more. Posted by: FireHorse
So that whole part about a government "by the people, for the people, and of the people" was what? Window dressing? The Fed derives it's powers from us, not the other way around. It's a government because we say it is.
2) It facilitates irresponsibility.
Couldn't disagree more. There's no responsibility imparted to those that serve in Congress for a few years because they want to see the funds as 'their funds.' They don't; they see the money as an easy way to pay back constituents for their election. Second, the impersonal aspect of the arrangement is still present. An individual congress critter is only 1/535 of the congress. The relationship between one critter and several trillion dollars of taxes is close enough anonymity.
There is no parsimony gained by acting like the 3 Monkeys.
Posted by: Iskandar at November 01, 2009 02:46 PM (u1pln)
79
Russ-
Very nice post. I enjoyed it, and was prepared to agree with all of it until I came upon critically important point. The phrase is: " about as useful as tits on a bull", not ""tits on a boar". All those who use the former are heretics. Burn them!
Very nice post. I enjoyed it, and was prepared to agree with all of it until I came upon critically important point. The phrase is: " about as useful as tits on a bull", not ""tits on a boar". All those who use the former are heretics. Burn them!
Posted by: pep at November 01, 2009 02:47 PM (DZyVK)
80
Damn The latter.
Posted by: pep at November 01, 2009 02:47 PM (DZyVK)
81
"During the day Saturday, she
Scozzafava began to quietly and thoughtfully encourage her supporters
to vote for Democrat William L. Owens."
This is why I only support solid Conservatives (not expecting 100% purity, but they better damn well vote down the stimulus and not even have to think about how they vote for Obamacare). I just cannot trust RINOs not to switch parties or sell us down the river for a party invitation.
Scozzafava began to quietly and thoughtfully encourage her supporters
to vote for Democrat William L. Owens."
This is why I only support solid Conservatives (not expecting 100% purity, but they better damn well vote down the stimulus and not even have to think about how they vote for Obamacare). I just cannot trust RINOs not to switch parties or sell us down the river for a party invitation.
Posted by: Just Another Poster at November 01, 2009 02:49 PM (HAdov)
82
Well folks, gonna run. Ya'll keep it between the ditches. May be back later.
Posted by: Vic at November 01, 2009 02:51 PM (CDUiN)
83
There is an opportunity knocking here. I agree with the above posters, one who said "no more Rino extortion" and someone else who said they would rather lose the GOP to conservatives than to democrats. While I disagree with most of the posters here as to the viability of a third party (I happen to think now is the exact right time and place), there are a couple of things we can do to sway the GOP kingmakers.
1) If you are a Republican party member, no doubt you are getting plenty of mailers asking for cash for either (a) the critical job of fighting the Obama/Reid/Pelosi agenda or (b) to build a warchest for the 2010 elections. Well, as the minority party in DC they are in poor position to legislatively fight the current agenda, not to mention the press they are recieving and the stellar job of Mr. Steele. As for building a war chest for '10, we see now what kind of candidates they would prefer to throw money at...and do we need more Dede's? Instead of throwing those mailers in the trash, or grudgingly throwing them a small stipend, VOID A CHECK, mail it back, and attach a small note saying that is the money they will not be getting if they continue to support weak candidates while marginalizing the conservative voices in their party. Think of your money as ammo supplies, and keep your powder dry; after all, politics is war without the blood.
2)With the emergence of the righty blogosphere, we have access to information about conservative candidates throughout the entire country, WE can bypass the party machinery completely and give to contests where the candidates' views match ours. We can have an impact on primaries, and have a say in who gets elected in districts from coast to coast. The left does this rather effectively (moveon.org) and we should too.
As we know, most districts are now considered "safe", gerrymandered through time so that overturning incumbency requires a live boy/ dead girl scenario. But for those 60 or 70 purple districts, we could have an impact, instead of leaving it to the likes of Mike Steele and Newt Gringrich to be the Deciders.
/just my .02
1) If you are a Republican party member, no doubt you are getting plenty of mailers asking for cash for either (a) the critical job of fighting the Obama/Reid/Pelosi agenda or (b) to build a warchest for the 2010 elections. Well, as the minority party in DC they are in poor position to legislatively fight the current agenda, not to mention the press they are recieving and the stellar job of Mr. Steele. As for building a war chest for '10, we see now what kind of candidates they would prefer to throw money at...and do we need more Dede's? Instead of throwing those mailers in the trash, or grudgingly throwing them a small stipend, VOID A CHECK, mail it back, and attach a small note saying that is the money they will not be getting if they continue to support weak candidates while marginalizing the conservative voices in their party. Think of your money as ammo supplies, and keep your powder dry; after all, politics is war without the blood.
2)With the emergence of the righty blogosphere, we have access to information about conservative candidates throughout the entire country, WE can bypass the party machinery completely and give to contests where the candidates' views match ours. We can have an impact on primaries, and have a say in who gets elected in districts from coast to coast. The left does this rather effectively (moveon.org) and we should too.
As we know, most districts are now considered "safe", gerrymandered through time so that overturning incumbency requires a live boy/ dead girl scenario. But for those 60 or 70 purple districts, we could have an impact, instead of leaving it to the likes of Mike Steele and Newt Gringrich to be the Deciders.
/just my .02
Posted by: OneEyedJack at November 01, 2009 02:57 PM (Poe30)
84
"There is no more a "democratic" party, people like liberman have
been kicked out... if you are for fiscal responsibility,
pro-freemarket, pro-indiv. rights, pro-US-military, agn socialized
care, agnst card check... you are too "conservative"... this is the
marxist party now..
I suppose I really don't belong to either party now... I voted for
Palin as a registered democrat last year..... and will support her
should shechoose to run..'
Dear Disaffect Dem,
The really cool kidz say Sarah Palin is the 'religious right' we are told to fear; we have received Carvile's Democrat fundraiser letter.
After meeting you I appreciate your reasonable measure of things; you make a lot of sense.
I'm beginning to think I've been conned by some well-crafted b.s. Artists.
Respectfully,
A former non-political 9/10 Liberal convert to extremely-political 9/12 Conservatism via Neo-Conism voter who completely missed Reagan's Revolution because of the self-indulgent, good-timing wild partying going on at the time
been kicked out... if you are for fiscal responsibility,
pro-freemarket, pro-indiv. rights, pro-US-military, agn socialized
care, agnst card check... you are too "conservative"... this is the
marxist party now..
I suppose I really don't belong to either party now... I voted for
Palin as a registered democrat last year..... and will support her
should shechoose to run..'
Dear Disaffect Dem,
The really cool kidz say Sarah Palin is the 'religious right' we are told to fear; we have received Carvile's Democrat fundraiser letter.
After meeting you I appreciate your reasonable measure of things; you make a lot of sense.
I'm beginning to think I've been conned by some well-crafted b.s. Artists.
Respectfully,
A former non-political 9/10 Liberal convert to extremely-political 9/12 Conservatism via Neo-Conism voter who completely missed Reagan's Revolution because of the self-indulgent, good-timing wild partying going on at the time
Posted by: syn at November 01, 2009 02:58 PM (PkSox)
85
I'm open to all ideas on this, Iskandar.
The Fed derives it's powers from us, not the other way around.
Absotively. And one of its powers is to compel tax remittances from me. In other words, to take some of my money and turn it into not my money.There's no responsibility imparted to those that serve in Congress for a few years because they want to see the funds as 'their funds.'
If they think it's their money, then they'll treat it like their money, which is always better handled than someone else's money; that's all I'm saying. But there's an alternative to this way of thinking: Make themafraid of being punished for mishandling this money, whomever it belongs to. (Of course, they'd have to make the rules themselves, and these rules could only hurt themselves.)
Again, I'm open to ideas.
The Fed derives it's powers from us, not the other way around.
Absotively. And one of its powers is to compel tax remittances from me. In other words, to take some of my money and turn it into not my money.There's no responsibility imparted to those that serve in Congress for a few years because they want to see the funds as 'their funds.'
If they think it's their money, then they'll treat it like their money, which is always better handled than someone else's money; that's all I'm saying. But there's an alternative to this way of thinking: Make themafraid of being punished for mishandling this money, whomever it belongs to. (Of course, they'd have to make the rules themselves, and these rules could only hurt themselves.)
Again, I'm open to ideas.
Posted by: FireHorse at November 01, 2009 03:08 PM (Vl5GH)
86
Great post, Russ. I agree with 80% of what you said, so count me in.
Posted by: FireHorse at November 01, 2009 01:53 PM
Hell, even I don't agree with more than 80% of what I say, so you're right there with me, FireHorse.
Posted by: FireHorse at November 01, 2009 01:53 PM
Hell, even I don't agree with more than 80% of what I say, so you're right there with me, FireHorse.
Posted by: Russ from Winterset at November 01, 2009 03:29 PM (7n7Br)
87
I much prefer Republican brains...they taste better.
Posted by: Zombie Quisling at November 01, 2009 03:51 PM (sx341)
88
well said Drew,
We need to remember that although we need to rally the base, we also need to be gracious and inclusive. One things that always comes to mind when reading threads like ive seen in the past few days is that conservative values predominate in this country -- gun freedom, traditional marriage, low taxes, personal responsibility, etc.
The Dems have built a party on a coalition - they win over different factions by promising to support their cause more than the Rs do. Gay marriage, unions, teachers, minorities, etc. But for that to work they have to paint the Rs as the extremists clinging to guns and religion.
The Rs need to realize that they can not buy factions without losing their brand (fiscal responsibility, strong defense, small government) and they cant be extreme either. Fighting abortion is not extreme but blowing up clinics is. school prayer is, etc.
The Rs have to figure out who they are and stop trying to be dems but at the same time resist being anti-dems.
We need to remember that although we need to rally the base, we also need to be gracious and inclusive. One things that always comes to mind when reading threads like ive seen in the past few days is that conservative values predominate in this country -- gun freedom, traditional marriage, low taxes, personal responsibility, etc.
The Dems have built a party on a coalition - they win over different factions by promising to support their cause more than the Rs do. Gay marriage, unions, teachers, minorities, etc. But for that to work they have to paint the Rs as the extremists clinging to guns and religion.
The Rs need to realize that they can not buy factions without losing their brand (fiscal responsibility, strong defense, small government) and they cant be extreme either. Fighting abortion is not extreme but blowing up clinics is. school prayer is, etc.
The Rs have to figure out who they are and stop trying to be dems but at the same time resist being anti-dems.
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"He believes that ANY compromise with the Republican Party will result
in social cons getting screwed, so he's hellbent on buring down the Big
Tent and letting two new political parties emerge from the ashes."
What I suspect you are dealing with is one of the varieties of millenarianism, which believes in a Tribulation as a required prelude to the Second Coming of Christ. A usually unspoken corollary is that the Second Coming can be encouraged by doing everything possible to kick off the Tribulation.
in social cons getting screwed, so he's hellbent on buring down the Big
Tent and letting two new political parties emerge from the ashes."
What I suspect you are dealing with is one of the varieties of millenarianism, which believes in a Tribulation as a required prelude to the Second Coming of Christ. A usually unspoken corollary is that the Second Coming can be encouraged by doing everything possible to kick off the Tribulation.
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Russ asks ( thanks for a great post):
How can modern "tea party" conservatives keep their revolution on track?
Can I add this please. Focus on Congress 2010. Let the Republicans run where Republicans can be effective, against the Blue Dog 1/3rd of the Democrats. Ignore the gerrymandered D+32 districts with radical leftists (Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, Maxine Waters) - it's best they are the face of the Democrats. We need to run as Independents in districts where Republicans have shown themselves by past history to be ineffective. These are rural and suburban districts mostly from the Midwest through the Northeast that are more conservative than their representatives but are not going to vote Republican. Conservative Independents can win where Republicans can’t. Our targets: http://www.firefifty.com/firefifty_headlines.php .
How can modern "tea party" conservatives keep their revolution on track?
Can I add this please. Focus on Congress 2010. Let the Republicans run where Republicans can be effective, against the Blue Dog 1/3rd of the Democrats. Ignore the gerrymandered D+32 districts with radical leftists (Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, Maxine Waters) - it's best they are the face of the Democrats. We need to run as Independents in districts where Republicans have shown themselves by past history to be ineffective. These are rural and suburban districts mostly from the Midwest through the Northeast that are more conservative than their representatives but are not going to vote Republican. Conservative Independents can win where Republicans can’t. Our targets: http://www.firefifty.com/firefifty_headlines.php .
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As you suspect, wrong. 20% Lib, 40%Neanderthal. Libertarians and Conservatives can make peace leaving moral legislation off the Federal agenda.
States have to take back their power and sue.
As you suspect, wrong. 20% Lib, 40%Neanderthal. Libertarians and Conservatives can make peace leaving moral legislation off the Federal agenda.
States have to take back their power and sue.
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Don't forget the brand of canada goose
anyway. It is because Canada goose clothes could bring you all that you
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admiration and appreciation, which other winter coats cannot gain from
customers. Perhaps you could experience canada goose clothing in order
to learn well about this style of winter clothing. Then, you can leave
your own comments on canada goose coats on the website. Of course, you
also could find out other comments and reviews on Canada goose from the
Internet.(yang)
anyway. It is because Canada goose clothes could bring you all that you
really need in the chilly winter. A nice canada goose coat absolutely
brings a funny winter life. Canada goose label also earns great
admiration and appreciation, which other winter coats cannot gain from
customers. Perhaps you could experience canada goose clothing in order
to learn well about this style of winter clothing. Then, you can leave
your own comments on canada goose coats on the website. Of course, you
also could find out other comments and reviews on Canada goose from the
Internet.(yang)
Posted by: canada goose at July 05, 2011 04:44 AM (jQnVI)
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