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"The Treasury Bond Market Is In Cardiac Arrest Today"

From the LAT, no less.

Interest rates soar on jobs data, putting housing at risk

The Treasury bond market is in cardiac arrest today over the May employment report: Yields are soaring, dealing another blow to investors who’ve been hiding out in government bonds -- and threatening another big jump in mortgage rates.

If rising home loan rates price more buyers out of the market, sellers will have to respond by cutting asking prices. Anyone have a better idea?

The 10-year T-note yield has surged to 3.84% from 3.71% on Thursday. The 2-year T-note has rocketed to 1.25% from 0.96%. Yields now are the highest since mid-November.

...

And that raises the question of how soon the Federal Reserve will be forced to begin pulling back from its unprecedented easy-money policy.

Now, I guess maybe I'm stupid, but I don't get this penultimate sentence:

The May employment data offer real hope for an economic rebound. But can we have a lasting recovery if the housing market isn’t part of it?

What? The numbers were horrific and even worse than the somewhat-less-horrific expectations. Where is the LAT finding a silver lining here?

Anywhere they can find it, or pretend to find it, as this must-read piece argues. Counterpunch is actually a lefty site. But even they notice.

Last week we got a whole series of bad reports on the state of the economy. New and existing home sales both remain near their lowest level for the downturn, as house prices continue to drop at the rate of 2.0 percent a month. New orders for capital goods, a key measure of investment demand, fell by 2.0 percent in April. Excluding the volatile transportation sector, new orders were still down by 1.5 percent.

On Friday, the Chicago Purchasing Managers Index fell by more than 5 percentage points from its April level, approaching its low for the downturn. The employment component of the index did hit a new low.

These reports might have led to gloomy news stories, but not in the U.S. media. The folks who could not see an $8 trillion housing bubble are still determined to find the silver lining in even the worst economic news.

For example, National Public Radio told listeners that the new home sales figure reported for April was up from the March level . While this was true, the April figure was only 1,000 higher than a March level that had just been revised down by 5,000. April new home sales were 4,000 below the sales level that had originally been reported for March. USA Today touted a “surge” in durable goods orders, which was also based on a sharp downward revision to the prior month’s data.

The media have obviously abandoned economic reporting and instead have adopted the role of cheerleader, touting whatever good news it can find and inventing good news when none can be found. This leaves the responsibility of reporting on the economy to others.

Any serious examination of the data shows that recovery is nowhere in sight. The basic story of the downturn is painfully simple. We have seen a collapse of a housing bubble which has devastated the construction sector and also caused consumption to plunge.

...

The plunge in house prices has send consumption plummeting. The problem is not consumer attitudes, as many commentators seem to believe. Rather, the reason that most homeowners aren’t buying a lot right now is the same reason that homeless people don’t buy a lot of things: they don’t have the money.

...


If there is evidence of a recovery in this story it is very hard to find. The more obvious story is one of a downward spiral as more layoffs and further cuts in hours continue to reduce workers’ purchasing power. Furthermore, the weakness in the labor market is putting downward pressure on wages, reducing workers’ purchasing power through a second channel.

The media understands, I think, that it has bet the ranch on Obama. Their fates are now intertwined. Obama is, far more than GM, too big to fail.

And they will continue with the bailouts and emergency political capital infusions for as long as their credit -- their credibility -- allows.

But that won't be for very long. They are burning through credibility at an alarming rate, and will themselves be bankrupt at about the same time the country is.

Thanks to Circa.

The "Real Hope:" Buzzion explains:

Its because the amount lost was less than what was lost in April or something. They're spinning things so much soon we'll be able to use the media for power generation.

Right. Like a wounded man who loses a pint of blood in a hour, then another pint, then another pint... and then only half a pint. Must be getting better, right?

Or: He's almost out of blood entirely and his heart is barely pumping it anymore.

More Explaining: Terry Notus writes:

There are two numbers:
1) Job losses
2) Unemployment

Unemployment came in worse than expected because more people are looking for work.Job losses, actually came in better than expected.

The difference is that more people are looking for work, which makes unemployment look worse, even when job losses are not as bad as they could be. Hence the confusion.

So previously they were "discouraged workers"? Why did the media not inform us that such "discouraged workers" existed anymore?

Ah, okay. As Geoff noted:

While I was waiting for May’s numbers to be released I did a quick Google News search on “unemployment.” Here is the first set of entries that popped up:

Pittsburgh unemployment rate falls to 6.9 percent
-- Bizjournals.com - Unemployment in the Pittsburgh area inched down in April to 6.9 percent…

US Economy: Jobless Claims Fall, Productivity Rises
--- Bloomberg

US jobless claims fall again, productivity rises
-- Reuters

Jobless claims are down, but work remains scarce
-- AP

You get the feeling that there’s a little pre-spin effort afoot? I mean, why put up an article on April’s unemployment on the day that May’s numbers come out? And while jobless claims did fall, interpreting that information without the unemployment rate is very difficult.

I do see now where one could claim that the numbers are "encouraging"... but only if one focuses laser-like on one metric and ignores the other.

I would have thought it hard to spin a 9.4% unemployment rate. I was wrong.


"Jeneane Garofalo" Weighs In:

I simply think this is the economy and Wall Street hating on a black man as president.

Obviously.

Morpheus... explains more, and makes a good point.

I think they are looking at the nonfarm payrolls number from the establishment survey. That was down 345K, but expectations were for a loss of 520K. Also, net revisions to prior months was +82K. These figures were on balance a positive, given the dire economic scenario priced in by bond markets.

The unemployment rate came in at 9.4% versus 9.2% expected, hit by a double whammy of a 350K increase in the labor force and 437K loss in employment. The household survey is usually considered less reliable as a guide to the labor markets, though, as compared with the establishment survey.

The key is... the press tended to focus on whatever the worst number was out of the two surveys (establishment vs. household) until somewhere around January 2009. Now, not so much. What changed?

I suppose these numbers are "positive," but only when compared to expectations of an even worse bloodletting. I guess it is fair to look for a silver lining and say the "rate of losses is going down." Sort of.

Eh, I don't think it's a genuine bottoming. I guess time will tell.

And Morpheus is 100% right in pointing out that, under Bush, the media always focused on the downbeat indicators. Under Obama, it only focuses on the positive.

What accounts for that, I wonder.

Posted by: Ace at 03:29 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Cardiac Funrest, you mean.

Posted by: lorien1973 at June 05, 2009 03:31 PM (IhQuA)

2 What? The numbers were horrific and even worse than the somewhat-less-horrific expectations. Where is the LAT finding a silver lining here?
Its because the amount lost was less than what was lost in April or something. They're spinning things so much soon we'll be able to use the media for power generation.

Posted by: buzzion at June 05, 2009 03:33 PM (Lrsi6)

3 I wonder if all the staff at The LAT is looking forward to their impending funemployment ?

Posted by: Blazer at June 05, 2009 03:34 PM (AoS9J)

4 There are two numbers:
1) Job losses
2) Unemployment

Unemployment came in worse than expected because more people are looking for work.
Job losses, actually came in better than expected.
The difference is that more people are looking for work, which makes unemployment look worse, even when job losses are not as bad as they could be. Hence the confusion.

Posted by: Terry Notus at June 05, 2009 03:36 PM (LQFXI)

5 I'm starting to feel like Ned Flanders after the hurricane. "Oh what now, did the rubble burn down?"

Contrary to popular belief, you can't develop a taste for shit sammiches.

Posted by: PaleoMedic at June 05, 2009 03:36 PM (yiNoG)

6 Darn it, the MSM says everything is sunshine and roses, so stop being such a downer already. Everything is just wonderful, really, really wonderful.

Uh oh. I've run out of gin. Should I switch to vodka and tonic or move on to some other mix of booze? Decisions, decisions.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at June 05, 2009 03:37 PM (AJ4xq)

7
"The Treasury Bond Market Is In Cardiac Arrest Today"

But that's good because sometimes the heart needs a little vacation, you see. You know, a little down-time for the ol' ticker.

Posted by: L.A. Times at June 05, 2009 03:37 PM (DJD+1)

8 I said it a couple days after Bear Stearns coded.
The fed is pushing on a string.

Posted by: jdub at June 05, 2009 03:38 PM (t9pKb)

9 And while the LA Times is obviously happy to provide partisan spin for Obama, I don't think the stock market would, and the Dow was up a smidge last time I checked.

Posted by: Terry Notus at June 05, 2009 03:39 PM (LQFXI)

10 "Help me Obi-Wan Obama, you're my only hope!"

Posted by: MSM at June 05, 2009 03:39 PM (RD7QR)

11 Well. This persistent rash doesn't seem like such a big problem after all.
Does this look infected?

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at June 05, 2009 03:40 PM (RkRxq)

12 I simply think this is the economy and Wall Street hating on a black man as president.

Posted by: Janeane Garofalo at June 05, 2009 03:41 PM (AoS9J)

13 Personally, I don't understand the bond market at all. However, when the value of the dollar is falling, unemployment is up significantly, and people are losing their homes, it doesn't take a genius to realize that spending and printing oodles of cash will NOT solve the problem. It will only make it worse.

Thinks of it as the "fundeath of the American economy."

Posted by: shibumi at June 05, 2009 03:42 PM (OKZrE)

14
This is like Bush saying, "Hey, in September there were 100 casualites in Iraq. In October, only 95! Woooohoooo, that's great fucking news!"

Posted by: Unicles at June 05, 2009 03:43 PM (DJD+1)

15 How much fun will the fed have when we all check out dry up their funds? It's coming, pretty soon we will all have to put in jail because a lot of people are going to cut the feds off and give them nothing but hell for this mess.

Posted by: LR at June 05, 2009 03:46 PM (OeYp4)

16 I think they are looking at the nonfarm payrolls number from the establishment survey. That was down 345K, but expectations were for a loss of 520K. Also, net revisions to prior months was +82K. These figures were on balance a positive, given the dire economic scenario priced in by bond markets.
The unemployment rate came in at 9.4% versus 9.2% expected, hit by a double whammy of a 350K increase in the labor force and 437K loss in employment. The household survey is usually considered less reliable as a guide to the labor markets, though, as compared with the establishment survey.
The key is... the press tended to focus on whatever the worst number was out of the two surveys (establishment vs. household) until somewhere around January 2009. Now, not so much. What changed?

Posted by: morpheus at June 05, 2009 03:48 PM (mirTD)

17 Idon't think the stock market would, and the Dow was up a smidge last time I checked.
The market rally for the past couple of days is called a "Bear market rally with legs". March was not the bottom. This is a bear market rally ending at SP 1000 ish.Then SP will crash back down to reality at 400-500 ish.

Posted by: paranoid polly at June 05, 2009 03:48 PM (YLNjm)

18
I'm calling it right now: the DJIA is bullshit. Wall Street right now is a house of cards.

About 4 weeks from now, 2Q earnings are coming out and they will be awful. The implosion is imminent. There is no good reason for people to invest in companies that are hemmorrhaging billions of $$. It makes no sense.

Posted by: Unicles at June 05, 2009 03:48 PM (DJD+1)

19 Collapsing house prices are a good thing right now IMO.

It means people are resetting their expectations about what real estate is worth, and it will nudge the banks towards dumping the property behind all that bad paper their holding. There was a lot of "holding back" on writing off loses hoping they'd be able to salvage a bit more. At a 2% a month decline, holding back for too long starts to get expensive.

A lot more will be thinking about taking the hit and unloading their inventory for whatever they can get for it. The faster that happens, the faster the whole banking and sub-prime quagmire becomes history and is put behind us.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 05, 2009 03:49 PM (grfe6)

20 "The media understands, I think, that it has bet the ranch on Obama. Their fates are now intertwined. Obama is, far more than GM, too big to fail." Heh Heh, I can't wait til the Peasants wake up and storm the castle--Hopey, Hopey, Change, Change!

Posted by: runningrn at June 05, 2009 03:51 PM (aC/SY)

21 I want to invest in 3-10 acres within 3 hours of where I live. I'm waiting to see what's going to happen before I sign any papers. I'm hoping to get a good deal, but I'm starting to feel like if I wait too long the only institution lending will be from the One himself and I'm not into giving money to loan sharks.

Posted by: LR at June 05, 2009 03:52 PM (OeYp4)

22 shadowstats.com has some numbers you'll be interested in seeing.

For example, whatever the government claims for unemployment, you can merely double that figure to reach something approaching reality. Government metrics in other sectors are similar. That type of government 'reporting' has been ongoing for quite some time. There is a serious argument to be made that it really began in earnest under the Reagan administration.

Posted by: Cigarette Man at June 05, 2009 03:52 PM (FoHqy)

23 The key point to be taken away from this particularly revelaing news item is this: We have no more room for maneuver. Zero. The stimulus, which was actually amishmashed porkfest,and the ensuing ridiculous deficit killed any chance for smoothing this out.
We are in the vicious cycle we all highlighted yesterday. If we don't get a handle on spending, we will never...that's right...never...recover from this.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2009 03:53 PM (B+qrE)

24 Insanely insensitive headline award of the day goes to the Christian Science Monitor:
http://tinyurl.com/pltmsv

Posted by: Kae Gregory at June 05, 2009 03:55 PM (RkRxq)

25 Wall Street right now is a house of cards.

There are some companies out there with realistic P/E's that are making money even in this mess. I bought some stock in Big Lots last week (and wrote covered calls against it).

The recession is causing outfits like Big Lots (NYSE:BIG), Freds, and Dollar Tree to pick up customers who wouldn't have been seen dead in them pre-recession. Its my feeling that the recession will cause a couple of generations to (re)adopt the notion of thrift that most of those who grew up during the great depression had.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 05, 2009 03:56 PM (grfe6)

26 The only good thing that might come out of this is that our gubmint is about to price itself out of the market.
Leeches can only feed for so long before the host dies.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at June 05, 2009 03:56 PM (ZGhSv)

27 You American simians cannot grasp that Obama's brillance is leading to a new era of peace and prosperity such as Cuba and Haiti enjoy. Centralized planning is the keystone, why in East germany everyone enjoyed a bowl of gruel everyday. And each worker had a pair of pants!

All hail our Lord and Savior Obama, Allah's blessing be on him!

Posted by: T DUB at June 05, 2009 03:57 PM (B8gqF)

28
And it's not over yet, folks. We still have a Cap & Trade Tax and 'free' healthcare coming.

Posted by: Unicles at June 05, 2009 03:57 PM (DJD+1)

29 Insanely insensitive headline award of the day goes to the Christian Science Monitor:
Oh, he's "reconstructing" alright, Kae...

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2009 03:58 PM (B+qrE)

30 I have never quite figured out how the government can borrow money by issuing treasury bonds and then use money that they don't have to go in and buy them. If they had the money in the first place, why did they issue bonds to begin with? Will one of you eco trolls give me a spin?

Posted by: payoff one card with another at June 05, 2009 03:58 PM (aVEdl)

31 Hmm. Market not bad today.
I'm not exactly dancing a jig but... over the last7 months I have made (at the moment) 10% interest on my investments.
Now I'm not moving to Tahiti but that's better then a CD would give me... and given the nature of the market lately I can't complain.

Posted by: Entropy at June 05, 2009 03:58 PM (m6c4H)

32
You know what's ironic?

Stores like the Dollar Tree sell crap from China and Malaysia, so those countries will feel a little boost from people thrift shopping moreso than the United States.

Posted by: Unicles at June 05, 2009 04:00 PM (DJD+1)

33 There were an awful lot of words in that post...bottom line, am I or am I not getting my motherfucking unicorn?

Posted by: DrewM. at June 05, 2009 04:01 PM (PLGGU)

34 What a meaty post. Long live the Ace!

Posted by: Winston at June 05, 2009 04:02 PM (bDjNy)

35 payoff

The Fed is going to go down to their basement and keep the printing press running longer.

That means more money in circulation. It means the value of all dollars is worth less. This is what leads to hyperinflation.

I'm not an economist, but I've read enough Milton Friedman to play one.

Posted by: David in San Diego at June 05, 2009 04:02 PM (GF+6V)

36 Hey, cardiac arrest is just nature's way of suggesting you should take it easy for a while. Take a vacation with the kids, see the sites, experience that funemployment everyone's talking about. And when you get done with all that, you can kick the mood up a notch and get in on the new fad sweeping the nation: funrest.

Posted by: Cautiously Pessimistic at June 05, 2009 04:02 PM (ltwze)

37 DrewM there is a long waiting list for the "motherfucking" model of unicorn. Would you settle for a "thirdcousinfucking" model instead?

Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at June 05, 2009 04:03 PM (AJ4xq)

38
All Obama has done since 1/21 is spend money. He hasn't solved a single problem or improved a single thing.

Why is the GOP is afraid to call Obama a fraud?

Posted by: Unicles at June 05, 2009 04:03 PM (DJD+1)

39 There were an awful lot of words in that post...bottom line, am I or am I not getting my motherfucking unicorn?

But more importantly I have yet to recieve a full tank of gas and a mortgage payment from President Obama.

Anybody know just wtf is goin' on here?


Posted by: Peggy The Moocher at June 05, 2009 04:04 PM (AoS9J)

40 anyone getting giddy about a turnaround based on todays lower than expected job loss number, should read this summation by David Rosenberg who drills down a bit to expose just how weak things are. very concerning. http://tinyurl.com/koo3vm

Posted by: exceller at June 05, 2009 04:04 PM (jx2Td)

41 And don't forget what's coming after funrest

Funflation

Funpression

Posted by: David in San Diego at June 05, 2009 04:05 PM (GF+6V)

42 Why is the GOP is afraid to call Obama a fraud?

Racist!

Posted by: David in San Diego at June 05, 2009 04:06 PM (GF+6V)

43 In any case, with another huge auction of Treasury issues slated for next week, an upbeat employment report was the last thing the beleaguered bond market needed.
Think about the statement above for a second. An unemployment report that has the economy shedding 300k plus jobs and the unemployment rate going up .5% is "upbeat" and causes yields to shoot up on T-Bills. What happens toa Treasury auctionwhen the economy actuallyadds jobs and unemployment goes down? How much is the yield on T-Bills going to shoot up then? Or will the Government just buy them themselves to keep the yielddown?

Posted by: Big E at June 05, 2009 04:06 PM (CBGRs)

44 "I like the woman."
- Melky Cabrera

Posted by: Winston at June 05, 2009 04:07 PM (bDjNy)

45 Want to have some real fun? Check out the headlines here:

http://tinyurl.com/3luoa

It's never good when the words "new dark ages" or "soviet style collapse" are in a headline referring to the US>

Posted by: shibumi at June 05, 2009 04:08 PM (OKZrE)

46 I'm not exactly dancing a jig but... over the last7 months I have made (at the moment) 10% interest on my investments.
Get out now. The uptick cannot last.
I get so pissed when reading or watching accounts of say, what the oil market is doing, without even a passing mention of what effect the deficit is having on the value of the dollar and, in turn, what that does to oil prices. And for those of you who watched Kudlow today--that was one of the most disgraceful things I have ever seen.
Just think about this and let itsink in--Unemployment is 9.4% and interest rates are rising. And all those bad loans? Still bad. Still on bank balance sheets. Oh, and inflation will be up thanks to the dollar tanking. Perfect storm.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2009 04:08 PM (B+qrE)

47 Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at June 05, 2009 04:03 PM (AJ4xq)

Hell no. I was promised a motherfucking unicorn and I'm damn well gonna get a motherfucking unicorn.

Posted by: DrewM. at June 05, 2009 04:08 PM (PLGGU)

48 And don't forget what's coming after funrestFunflationFunpression


Funcap and funtrade

Funamnesty

Funuclear Iran

Posted by: Blazer at June 05, 2009 04:08 PM (AoS9J)

49 Compare the headlines to a year ago, look at the spin to make the numbers bad. Now the numbers are worse and they are trying to make them look good. You can find stories by the same writers and compare, when will the rest of the public notice?

Posted by: Craig at June 05, 2009 04:10 PM (b6hKV)

50 FUnicorn

Posted by: Fallen Sparrow at June 05, 2009 04:12 PM (SOf9N)

51 The recession is causing outfits like Big Lots (NYSE:BIG), Freds, and Dollar Tree....
True story from just yesterday. My fiance got word that Big Lots was selling Martha Stewart brandwedding invitations in 40-packsfor $2. According to the gals I know, these things normally sell for around $50, so we ran in and grabbed some.
Seems that the Martha Stewart companyhas got to be taking a big hitoff of this, even if this wasjust their excess remainders they weredumping, and second, it's going to be the scavengers and vultures of this economy like foreclosure house buyers/investors and bargain retailers who eventually save this economy until it finally does bottom out -- whenever that day eventually does arise.

Posted by: Lee at June 05, 2009 04:13 PM (TxTIh)

52 In Drews case, it's an MFUnicorn.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2009 04:13 PM (B+qrE)

53 That means more money in circulation. It means the value of all dollars is worth less. This is what leads to hyperinflation.
I concur. But I have no idea WTF to do about it.
Swiss marks? Japanese yen? If we go down we're taking the whole damn global ship with us, who the hell is gonna provide a hedge? Gold?

Posted by: Entropy at June 05, 2009 04:14 PM (m6c4H)

54 Washington, D.C - Scientists have proven that human flesh tastes like chicken. This is great news for people who are funemployed, they can now sell their excess limbs to Perdue as chicken.

Posted by: MSM - Fnews at June 05, 2009 04:14 PM (1V2sa)

55 Funmiddle East Nuclear Exchange

Man-made Fundisasters

Posted by: David in San Diego at June 05, 2009 04:15 PM (GF+6V)

56 Scientists have proven that human flesh tastes like chicken.
KFC IS PEOPLE, IT'\S PEOPLE.
Never let it be said that we here at AOSHQ are so narrow-minded as to allow a Soylent Green reference to pass.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2009 04:15 PM (B+qrE)

57 it's going to be the scavengers and vultures of this economy
Yo.

Posted by: Entropy at June 05, 2009 04:16 PM (m6c4H)

58 And just imagine how those same news articles would have read if a Republican had been in the WH. Hell, they would have read doom and gloom even if actual unemployment had lessoned and job losses had fell to less than job gains.

These SOBs can not go bankrupt fast enough for me.

Posted by: Vic at June 05, 2009 04:16 PM (BYokb)

59 Are you gonna eat that?

Posted by: Entropy at June 05, 2009 04:16 PM (m6c4H)

60 @53, do NOT get ahead of yourself and first there will be a deflation. Now is the time to be in short-term T-bills. After the deflation will come the inflation then move to gold and money market ETFs.

If you move to gold now you will get burned when it deflates with the stock market. Wait till SPY 100.

Posted by: MikeH at June 05, 2009 04:16 PM (1V2sa)

61
How's this?

Headline: Foreclosures Hit Historic Levels --
sub-headline: More people are choosing to loosen themselves from the shackles of home ownership.

Martha Dildo walked away smiling from her 3 bedroom colonial and couldn't be happier. "I was tired of mortgage payments, mowing the lawn, fixing stuff. I'd rather rent or move in with my in-laws." Ms. Dildo is not alone; thousands of others feel like they're on vacation when they left their homes.

"It's fun," said Harry Assman. "Instead of a mortgage payment every month to the bank, I'm paying a landlord for this nifty little apartment which is really easy to clean. So I've got that going for me, which is nice." Mr Assman recently left his home for smaller, more economical digs. The best part of the home foreclosures, reports the Obama administration, is the decrease in carbon footprints. Simply put, people are making do with less, and that, they say, is great for the environment.



Posted by: Unicles at June 05, 2009 04:17 PM (DJD+1)

62 Where is the TheQuietMan. He should be here putting some knowledge.

Posted by: Winston at June 05, 2009 04:19 PM (bDjNy)

63 Right. Like a wounded man who loses a pint of blood in a hour, then another pint, then another pint... and then only half a pint. Must be getting better, right?
Or: He's almost out of blood entirely and his heart is barely pumping it anymore.
--Brings to mind one of the best Manswers episodes ever:
http://tinyurl.com/phc6ww

Posted by: logprof at June 05, 2009 04:20 PM (tjUml)

64 Mr Assman
Too easy.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2009 04:20 PM (B+qrE)

65 You mean there's no easy answer? Don't tell the people who voted for me, please. Not until December 2012.

Posted by: Barry S at June 05, 2009 04:21 PM (8XI4A)

66 If you move to gold now you will get burned when it deflates with the stock market. Wait till SPY 100.

Pardon my ignorance... but what is SPY 100?

Posted by: shibumi at June 05, 2009 04:22 PM (OKZrE)

67
Spyder Index?

Posted by: Unicles at June 05, 2009 04:25 PM (DJD+1)

68 If you turn on the TV and Billy Mays is on there selling Treasury Bonds you'll know we're in trouble.

Posted by: Pocono Joe at June 05, 2009 04:27 PM (dh4WZ)

69 The media is coming to the sudden realization that their idiot black puppet really IS an idiot black puppet who's surrounding himself with even more idiot puppets.
Obama's hiring practices are simple: he can't hire anyone who makes him look bad. As a result, he has to look for people with even less intelligence, honesty, work ethic, and grip on reality than he has.
Lord, are we screwed.

Posted by: North Dallas Thirty at June 05, 2009 04:27 PM (TizM+)

70 @66,
http://tinyurl.com/3ygcd3

It's an Exchange Traded Fund that tracks the SP 500. So, when SP hits 1,000 SPY will hit 100.

Posted by: MikeH at June 05, 2009 04:27 PM (1V2sa)

71 Logprof

You had a question about digitizing albums and cassettes on the overnights? I have done hundreds of these if you want to ask me.

Posted by: Vic at June 05, 2009 04:28 PM (BYokb)

72 Entropy.

Invest in:

Glock 21: Glocks has the lowest or second lowest number of moving parts for a semi-automatic. Any loswer moving parts and you have to go with a revolver.

ArmaLite AR-10: Good for medium to long range personal protection.

ArmaLite AR-30 or AR-50: Good for long range protection.

Mossberg 500: Good home defense shotgun.

Remington 870: Similar to the Mossberg but geared more towards hunting.

Ammo. Ammo. Ammo. You've heard of the phrase "More than I need but less than I want" used for firearms? That applies on also to the ammo for each firearm. You'll find right now that ammo's harder to get than the firearm itself. At gun shows it's the first thing that runs out. And if you're really adventurous start reloading your own.

Posted by: David in San Diego at June 05, 2009 04:29 PM (GF+6V)

73 Sorry if anyone mentioned this and I missed it, but the midmorning hiccough after the rally from strong employment numbers ::gag:: was because traders thought the Dept. of Labor was lying about their unemployment numbers.
It's a reasonable fear: on Wednesday, the preliminary jobless numbers were 532,000, totally on par with March and April. Then, today, it's all of a sudden only 349,000 -- until the afternoon, when it's 345,000.
Yay!
But the interesting thing is that the traders, albeit briefly, considered that the DOL was lying to them. I think the DOL is lying, but when traders are actually reacting to official government numbers as if they're fabrications, that's huge. Next time, the idea that the government figures are a lie might not get shaken off so quickly, and then it will get fun.

Posted by: Ella at June 05, 2009 04:32 PM (huf8h)

74 When you are unable to concentrate on jobs created because they aren't there, you can always focus on jobs saved because, as luck would have it, someone is always working.
Like me, for example. Heh, heh, heh.

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at June 05, 2009 04:32 PM (RkRxq)

75 Oh, and I've got to ask, where is the f+word thing coming from? I want to get jokes!

Posted by: Ella at June 05, 2009 04:34 PM (huf8h)

76 70
@66,http://tinyurl.com/3ygcd3It's an Exchange Traded Fund that tracks the SP 500. So, when SP hits 1,000 SPY will hit 100.

Thank you MikeH!

Posted by: shibumi at June 05, 2009 04:34 PM (OKZrE)

77 Whoa! And the stock market keeps going up? How can this be?

Posted by: Mystry at June 05, 2009 04:34 PM (dIHlE)

78 I think it's:
Funemployment
Sinflation, then
Gleepression

with increasing funrest scattered throughout (can you say TP Party?)

Posted by: Methos/Woman who complained to John McCain that Obama is a muslim terrorist at June 05, 2009 04:37 PM (7h4DG)

79 You don't think Beyond Thunderdome may actually be prophecy based on these numbers, do ya?
Michelle Obama as Tina Turner?
Joe Biden as Masterblaster?

Posted by: Lee at June 05, 2009 04:39 PM (TxTIh)

80 Made some money investing in oil recently. That stuff's going through the roof again.
Does that make me racist? Or a raper of the environment?

Posted by: gator at June 05, 2009 04:41 PM (yUiO3)

81 O/T

Fox: Department of Justice Opens Federal Probe Into Kansas Abortion Doctor's Murder
The Justice Department launched a federal probe Friday into whether the killing of a Kansas abortion doctor was part of a larger plot involving multiple accomplices.

Meanwhile, the shooting of the soldiers is still being investigated locally, even though there is ALREADY evidence of a larger plot AND it was a crime against federal employees.

No politics in our DOJ, nope.

Posted by: Vic at June 05, 2009 04:41 PM (BYokb)

82 @75 - Ella the F+ stuff comes from an LA Times article renaming employment, "funployment" or something. They had a story about a guy who lost his job and now has more time for golf and other fun things. I didn't read the whole thing but that is the jist of it. Other Morons might have more insight. Happy Friday!

Posted by: Trish at June 05, 2009 04:42 PM (0U5Kd)

83 For example: Michelle is funattractive.

Posted by: gator at June 05, 2009 04:43 PM (yUiO3)

84 @76, Keep in mind this is a best guess. I subscribe to two forecast services that are contrary to each other. However, they are both predicting a major correction in late July/August when SP hits 1,000.

http://tinyurl.com/o37a6a

For those wanting to stay in cash, this is a web page that shows stable currency index (it currently has USD at 25% on the index).

For Swiss Francs use FXF ETF

For New Zealand dollars use BNZ ETF

I have not used either one and would strongly suggest investigating any investment before buying. I have not found an ETF for Singapore dollars.

Posted by: MikeH at June 05, 2009 04:43 PM (1V2sa)

85 There are some companies out there with realistic P/E's that are making money even in this mess. I bought some stock in Big Lots last week (and wrote covered calls against it).
Posted by: Purple Avenger at
PA, if you are still here, do you use a broker, or something like ScottTrade, to write covered calls? I am interested in doing the same thing with some stocks I own, but have never done it. I think i understand how it works.

Posted by: mikeyslaw at June 05, 2009 04:44 PM (QMGr1)

86 "Hell, they would have read doom and gloom even if actual unemployment had lessoned and job losses had fell to less than job gains. "
During the bulk of the Bush administration when the economy was good but beginning to cool, the media consistently reported reduced year-over-year job gains, as job losses. So it 50,000 jobs were added in May of 2005, but only 30,000 were added in May of 2006, the media reported that 20,000 jobs were LOST. They regularly used terms like "Workers got 20,000 pinks slips in May." NPR did this all the time, for example.
Now under Obama we have the farce of the media reporting slightly lower job loses as a positve indication.
The media is an absolutely worthless piece of trash, and I look forward to their early death. If Obama tries to bail these bastards out, I will be for going pitchforks and torches on the White House. We cannot allow the media to become even more beholden to one political party than they already are.
I wonder how ironic people of the future will find it that the second American Revolution was triggered by the people's growing awareness that they were being lied to by an institution that they had been conditioned to trustby its actions inthe first one, but which has now sold its soul to a political party that is becoming a criminal enterprise.

Posted by: sherlock at June 05, 2009 04:47 PM (cq3pU)

87 Let me see if I can do anything to clarify the recent data.
Financial people look at derivatives, which are basically the amount of change in a number versus the change in the base. The initial number is not as important as the change in the number. So unemployment numbers are actually decreasing in the change ( increase) that they are dropping. A small comfort for the newly unemployed. But a decrease in the acceleration of the unemployed.
So, at the same time the bond market is full of frightened investors who just want to preserve capital. They are now bailing out ( hence the drop in the bond market) whenever the fed gets involved, market forces are amplified.

Posted by: NortonPete at June 05, 2009 04:49 PM (fVuwW)

88 http://tinyurl.com/pzkbqo

Courtesy of Zero Hedge, a large financial company gets TARP funds, does not lend the money out instead uses it to long SPY. That is why the market is going up.

Posted by: MikeH at June 05, 2009 04:50 PM (1V2sa)

89 I miss the Bush Economy... when the DOW was largely measured with five figures, and I had a job.

Posted by: Chaz706 at June 05, 2009 04:53 PM (6FbbL)

90 Unicles @ 61 -
Martha Dildo and Harry Assman?
Ummm....you wouldn't have a link to that would you?

Posted by: gebrauchshund at June 05, 2009 05:05 PM (ACDor)

91 O/T: OK now that momma posted about Biden's suits, I'm looking at them and I'm seriously worried about him having to purchase anything in the government, they will see him coming a mile away. I mean I thought he was buying the suit separates in Target. Mike H: Zero Hedge is an amazing site and, like ace, the bloggers he connects to are amazing also.

Posted by: muffy at June 05, 2009 05:06 PM (zplc6)

92 Nevermind, I are a moron.

Posted by: gebrauchshund at June 05, 2009 05:06 PM (ACDor)

93 If you are planning to buy a certificate of deposit, consider a short maturity for now. If you lock yourself into a year-or-more maturity, you'll be taking the risk that interest ratescontinue rising rapidly and you'll miss out on the opportunity for better yields, which will hopefully begin to appear soon.

Posted by: gp at June 05, 2009 05:08 PM (MK402)

94 "89
I miss the Bush Economy... when the DOW was largely measured with five figures, and I had a job.

Posted by: Chaz706 at June 05, 2009 04:53 PM (6FbbL)"I know some will think this blasphemous but what the hell happened in the last months of the administration that all this shit hit the fan?

Posted by: muffy at June 05, 2009 05:09 PM (zplc6)

95 Invest in: Glock 21
I don't want more guns. I want money.


....
Wait, I have an idea...

Posted by: Entropy at June 05, 2009 05:10 PM (cok/k)

96 Mike H: Zero Hedge is an amazing site and, like ace, the bloggers he connects to are amazing also.
Posted by: muffy
yeah, tyler durden throws some shit out there that will scare the bejebus out of you. very sharp guy. another one is Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis, and Calculated Risk is pretty good, too.

Posted by: mikeyslaw at June 05, 2009 05:10 PM (QMGr1)

97 "93
If you are planning to buy a certificate of deposit, consider a short
maturity for now. If you lock yourself into a year-or-more maturity,
you'll be taking the risk that interest ratescontinue rising rapidly
and you'll miss out on the opportunity for better yields, which will
hopefully begin to appear soon.

Posted by: gp at June 05, 2009 05:08 PM (MK402)"I so wish someone would publish a troubled bank list officially. Banks implode has one but it isn't official.

Posted by: muffy at June 05, 2009 05:10 PM (zplc6)

98
With regard to the job-loss versus unemployment dichotomy, don't forget that with the spring graduations, lots of young graduates are looking for jobs. Good luck to them: they'll need it.

Posted by: Brown Line at June 05, 2009 05:11 PM (VrNoa)

99 "96
Mike H: Zero Hedge is an amazing site and, like ace, the bloggers he connects to are amazing also.

Posted by: muffy
yeah, tyler durden throws some shit out there that
will scare the bejebus out of you. very sharp guy. another one is
Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis, and Calculated Risk is pretty
good, too.

Posted by: mikeyslaw at June 05, 2009 05:10 PM (QMGr1)"I love mish. But really, you need to have an empty stomach and take an antacid preemptively when you start going to their sites.

Posted by: muffy at June 05, 2009 05:12 PM (zplc6)

100 "98

With regard to the job-loss versus unemployment dichotomy, don't
forget that with the spring graduations, lots of young graduates are
looking for jobs. Good luck to them: they'll need it.


Posted by: Brown Line at June 05, 2009 05:11 PM (VrNoa)"If you read Above the Law, this year's class of new first years has been all but decimmated. I understand about the grads but you can't go on unemployment until you have had a job so I thought when the blonde bought it up this morning on Squawk Box that it was sort of bogus.

Posted by: muffy at June 05, 2009 05:14 PM (zplc6)

101 Invest in: Glock 21
I don't want more guns. I want money.


....
Wait, I have an idea...
Posted by: Entropy
Ent, I also have guns. And live near a large city. Wait, I may have an idea how to double intake...

Posted by: mikeyslaw at June 05, 2009 05:14 PM (QMGr1)

102 I'm thinking that they are all taking something or putting on special glasses or something cause they are all seeing things that others are not.

Posted by: muffy at June 05, 2009 05:15 PM (zplc6)

103 According to the DOL report for May, there were 787,000 jobs lost and a total of 14.5 million unemployed. In April, they said there were 563,000 jobs lost and 13.7 million unemployed. So, the numbers fit.
The 345,000 comes from adjusting the birth/death rates (lessening the unemployed by 200,000)and guessing that 220,000 people were going to be hired by small businesses.
And, when you add in the reduced number of hours that people are working to unemployment numbers, it equals ... 927,000 fewer jobs.
And, just for kicks, remember that the "discouraged workers" aren't counted in unemployment numbers.

Posted by: Ella at June 05, 2009 05:16 PM (huf8h)

104 102 Muffy
Ever hear the old saying "Don't fight the market."? I ain't fightin it, but brother, am I ever keeping a short rein on it. The idiots on CNBC would have you believe this sumbitch is going to the moon. It might be the shortest trip ever.

Posted by: mikeyslaw at June 05, 2009 05:19 PM (QMGr1)

105 So, at the same time the bond market is full of frightened investors who just want to preserve capital. They are now bailing out ( hence the drop in the bond market) whenever the fed gets involved, market forces are amplified.
____________________________________

Not necessarily bailing out of the bond market. With wide spreads between corporate and high-yield bonds, and treasuries, many investors have rotated out of treasuries and into the corporates and high-yields for the higher coupon rates.

Posted by: ICBM at June 05, 2009 05:27 PM (aGdrH)

106 "104

102 Muffy

Ever hear the old saying "Don't fight the market."? I ain't fightin
it, but brother, am I ever keeping a short rein on it. The idiots on
CNBC would have you believe this sumbitch is going to the moon. It
might be the shortest trip ever.

Posted by: mikeyslaw at June 05, 2009 05:19 PM (QMGr1)"no, I know where it is trending but I've gotten burned when I should not have been burned when the charts were spot on and then the market didn't follow the charts. I know I'm not the only one this happened to.

Posted by: muffy at June 05, 2009 05:28 PM (zplc6)

107 "105

So, at the same time the bond market is full of frightened investors
who just want to preserve capital. They are now bailing out ( hence the
drop in the bond market) whenever the fed gets involved, market forces
are amplified.

____________________________________



Not necessarily bailing out of the bond market. With wide spreads
between corporate and high-yield bonds, and treasuries, many investors
have rotated out of treasuries and into the corporates and high-yields
for the higher coupon rates.





Posted by: ICBM at June 05, 2009 05:27 PM (aGdrH)"Yes but what guarantees do they have that the government won't somehow mess with the companies and they won't get their money?

Posted by: muffy at June 05, 2009 05:30 PM (zplc6)

108 Just got a call to put cramer on cause he has "lost his mind"

Posted by: muffy at June 05, 2009 05:31 PM (zplc6)

109 Muffy. With the spreads being several points, they are chasing yield. They also are betting that these companies will be in better financial shape as the recovery continues. The gains in the markets have been an obvious influence on this.
In my mind, your concern is a valid one aboutany potentialgovernment interference. The GM and Chrysler deals should give one pause for concern.

Posted by: ICBM at June 05, 2009 05:35 PM (aGdrH)

110 "109

Muffy. With the spreads being several points, they are chasing
yield. They also are betting that these companies will be in better
financial shape as the recovery continues. The gains in the markets
have been an obvious influence on this.

In my mind, your concern is a valid one aboutany
potentialgovernment interference. The GM and Chrysler deals should
give one pause for concern.



Posted by: ICBM at June 05, 2009 05:35 PM (aGdrH)"They are valid but they are stopping me from getting more into the market. Everything has to have "protection" as Pete Najarian would say. My gut feels like a lot of people are chasing the stocks and I don't chase so if I missed the "bottom" so be it.

Posted by: muffy at June 05, 2009 05:39 PM (zplc6)

111 They are valid but they are stopping me from getting more into the market. Everything has to have "protection" as Pete Najarian would say. My gut feels like a lot of people are chasing the stocks and I don't chase so if I missed the "bottom" so be it. ______________________
Nothing wrong with your attitude. Bottom-fishing has always been a high-risk proposition. Too many focus entirely on the upside, and completely ignore risk management, and down-side potentialof their portfolios.

Posted by: ICBM at June 05, 2009 05:42 PM (aGdrH)

112 Just had a long time finincal advisor came to my place tuesday. Tried to talk me into buying into the bond market. Lots of fancy graphs..Did not bite. Think I'll take a 2nd or 3rd opinions...

Posted by: Mystry at June 05, 2009 05:50 PM (dIHlE)

113 PA, if you are still here, do you use a broker, or something like ScottTrade.

I'm using TD Ameritrade at the moment, although I won't say my search for the "best" was exhaustive when I signed up with them. I setup my account for margin and options trading. You have to specifically ask for margin and options capability when you sign up and swear to a bunch of stuff saying that you're aware of the "risk" etc, etc, blah, blah, blah, possible margin calls, blah, blah.

A conventional brokerage will eat you alive on commissions if your trading is anything resembling active and you're looking to score quick tactical hits. I still have some stuff at Janney Montgomery Scott (a conventional brokerage), but even at the best commission discount rate, they're still well over 10X what Ameritrade is charging.

On Ameritrade's system writing a covered call is a "sell to open" on the option and shows up on their status as a "short" option. I haven't figured out how to do a buy/write yet using their system...

Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 05, 2009 05:55 PM (grfe6)

114 Excellent detailed look at the employment report at Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis:
"Grim StatisticsThe official unemployment rate is 9.4% and rising sharply. However, if you start counting all the people that want a job but gave up, all the people with part-time jobs that want a full-time job, all the people who dropped off the unemployment rolls because their unemployment benefits ran out, etc., you get a closer picture of what the unemployment rate is. That number is in the last row labeled U-6.It reflects how unemployment feels to the average Joe on the street. U-6 is 16.4%. Both U-6 and U-3 (the so called "official" unemployment number) are poised to rise further."

Posted by: John at June 05, 2009 05:56 PM (G1X4G)

115 @97
The best place to find a list of troubled banks is by looking at the banks with the highest deposit rates, especially on CDs. They are looking to raise cash. As long as you put cash in under FDIC terms, you are safe no matter what. Well you are safe.

Posted by: KLL at June 05, 2009 06:35 PM (/5Axw)

116 "113
PA, if you are still here, do you use a broker, or something like ScottTrade.

I'm
using TD Ameritrade at the moment, although I won't say my search for
the "best" was exhaustive when I signed up with them. I setup my
account for margin and options trading. You have to specifically ask
for margin and options capability when you sign up and swear to a bunch
of stuff saying that you're aware of the "risk" etc, etc, blah, blah,
blah, possible margin calls, blah, blah.

A conventional
brokerage will eat you alive on commissions if your trading is anything
resembling active and you're looking to score quick tactical hits. I
still have some stuff at Janney Montgomery Scott (a conventional
brokerage), but even at the best commission discount rate, they're
still well over 10X what Ameritrade is charging.

On Ameritrade's
system writing a covered call is a "sell to open" on the option and
shows up on their status as a "short" option. I haven't figured out
how to do a buy/write yet using their system...


Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 05, 2009 05:55 PM (grfe6)"I love Think or swim because of the comraderie.

Posted by: muffy at June 05, 2009 06:42 PM (zplc6)

117 It reflects how unemployment feels to the average Joe on the street.
U-6 is 16.4%. Both U-6 and U-3 (the so called "official" unemployment
number) are poised to rise further."

So how do these compare with the 1981-82 recession and its aftereffects?

Curious minds would like to know.

Posted by: LowestOf the Morons at June 05, 2009 06:46 PM (S830k)

118 From Zero Hedge: "And here, for some more data on why the unemployment number, is for the most part, rubbish."

Posted by: muffy at June 05, 2009 06:56 PM (zplc6)

119 The economy is turning around because Obama says so. Der Fuhrer commands, we must obey. So you 6+ million unemployed, PUT ON A FUCKING SMILE!

Posted by: GarandFan at June 05, 2009 08:16 PM (C3okI)

120 When Reagan was elected he faced 10% unemployment and 20% inflation due to Leftwingnut programs and policies. This facist took people off welfare and put them back to work and created over 25 million jobs. Think of the children deprived of their parents help and assistance because they were working instead of watching soaps like Obama is doing today.

Reagan cut inflation to less than 6%, Obama is creating inflation by creating more debt in four months than was created in the past forty years. But this reflects his genius for we all know there are many shovel ready projects being created. Bike paths, museums of cloth pins, new pre-pre kindergarden programs, conservation of cockroach prohrams, more Big Digs, more John Murtha airports. Why the economy will soar to heights not seen since Jimmy Carter.
I mean we should sacrifice to Obama now, because as Chavez says, Obama makes him look like a rightist. How well said comrade.

And we all know new estate taxes, taxes on healthcare, a 10% sales tax will only serve to pump the economy so dig deep. Biden said it is patriotic to pay taxes and the Left is truly patriotic.

Change and hope for a people's tomorrow.

Posted by: T DUB at June 05, 2009 08:53 PM (B8gqF)

121 For the first time I don't mind the idiocy of talking up the economy. The sooner the economic news is said to be good, theharder it will be forDems to later blame Bush when the bad news comes out.
It will get old, and will seem like a stretch to blame Bush when the news gets worse.

Posted by: steve o at June 05, 2009 09:40 PM (1QEgS)

122 Since duh1 is all wrapped up with his 'jobs saved bullshit', why isn't there a column for 'jobs destroyed'???? Huh? Why?

Posted by: torabora at June 05, 2009 11:58 PM (qzVUu)

123 Until Women get laid off, by huge amounts, in jobs like teaching, nursing, advertising, corporate finance, law, and other pink-collar type jobs, the perception and the reality of the Recession will be limited to men only.

So far men have borne 82% of layoffs. Women have not been touched much. Obama's increase in Government employment is likely to be female-non-White dominated. No White guys need apply.

While that's smart strategy, since Men mostly loathe Obama and women worship him as First Rockstar, it has a risk.

What if the economy tanks so bad that WOMEN, for the first time, and in large amounts, are thrown out of work? Desperate, jobless, unemployed?

THEN Obama's support craters. Women love Obama the Rockstar. They will forgive him anything, even nuked NYC. Like Rhianna with Chris Brown. But they won't forgive being poor.

Being poor means having to care about Beta guys and even date them, or horrors, live with them. THAT women will not forgive. Ever.

/only halfway kidding, too.

Posted by: whiskey at June 06, 2009 03:08 AM (L03mw)

124 Whisky...are you suggesting that women will 'ahem' have sex for food and shelter?

Posted by: beta guy at June 06, 2009 08:09 AM (/dflW)

125 Remember Obama our Lord and Saviour has saved at least two hundred million and six jobs. And he has caused the price of gasoline to drop to thrity five scents a gallon, and a package of fags cost forty cents.

Yeah the Fearless Leader is too good to be true.

Change, Hope, Unicorns.

Posted by: T DUB at June 06, 2009 09:56 PM (B8gqF)

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Posted by: royalmewigs at June 06, 2009 11:34 PM (Quf7v)

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Posted by: KJ at June 13, 2009 12:47 AM (FDpTp)

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