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Dems Cry Foul: "The CIA is Out to Get Us!"
Idiots. As the infamously leaky CIA demonstrated over the past eight years, the intelligence agency is out for itself more than any other objective. That means prioritizing protection for its agents, analysts, and methods, above partisanship. The Democrats thought the CIA was an ally against Republicans and they were happy to encourage it's embarrassing tendency to leak. They were right about the means, but wrong about the objective:
The CIA has long been on the receiving end of harsh rebukes from Congress — on intelligence failures leading up to the war in Iraq, on secret prisons abroad and on the harsh interrogation techniques used on terrorism suspects. But with the release of records showing that it briefed members of Congress along the way, the CIA has effectively put lawmakers on the defensive. Intelligence officials insist it wasn’t intentional and have not taken responsibility for publicly releasing the documents. Asked for comment about the Democrats’ charges, CIA spokesman George Little said only that the CIA “understands the importance of a strong relationship with the Congress, which in our democracy, conducts oversight of secret intelligence activities.” But another U.S. intelligence official went further, noting that the records of the congressional briefings were “prepared in response to a request from Congress.” Intelligence Committee member Russ Feingold (D-Wis.) said it appears that “members of the committee or their staff were not in any way involved in [the release of the document]. It appears to come from the executive branch itself. ... I think it’s unbelievable.” A top congressional official who has participated in the briefings added: “I think the agency wanted to get this out, quite frankly.” The 10-page document, which was prepared after an April 20 request by Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.), lists 40 instances in which the CIA briefed members of Congress between September 2002 and March 2009. But they provide a vague description of the briefings, giving just enough information to fuel claims that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and other top officials have long known about waterboarding and other tactics but did little to stop the techniques from being used.Congress hung the CIA and its contractors out to dry. Of course individuals and the agency itself are going to hit back. I'd say it's likely that the average American is more likely to believe the CIA than Congress, especially since San Fran Nan has so obviously been lying about what she knew and when she knew it. Democrats who were so eager for "torture commissions" may not be so eager now. Republicans already fessed up to supporting harsh interrogations, which are not torture. Pelosi and her fellows, who spent the last four years lying about their involvement, are not eager for the truth to be widely known. Which means that with a little leak the CIA will have made this whole issue go away. Another Thing: Consider the arrogance of the Democrats, who thought they could use the CIA like a punching bag, secure in the knowledge that the CIA would never dare punch back. What the Democrats failed to consider is that the CIA believes that it should be setting national intelligence policy. That makes it the natural enemy of Congress and the White House, no matter which party is in power.
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
The Democrats thought the CIA was an ally against Republicans
Given the size of their echo chamber and the intensity of the groupthing over there, it is not surprising that they just assumed that every single govt employee was an ally. Fortuneately for us, they haven't figured out yet that only messianic figures get to shit on their allies and not suffer retribution. And there is only one of those currently. Well.......two if you count Katie Couric.
Given the size of their echo chamber and the intensity of the groupthing over there, it is not surprising that they just assumed that every single govt employee was an ally. Fortuneately for us, they haven't figured out yet that only messianic figures get to shit on their allies and not suffer retribution. And there is only one of those currently. Well.......two if you count Katie Couric.
Posted by: pendejo grande at May 13, 2009 08:55 AM (PXZI9)
2
Aside from the glorious schadenfreude, an government agency should not be allowed to wield this kind of power and influence.
Posted by: Techie at May 13, 2009 08:56 AM (QYuCD)
3
groupthing = groupthink
WTF is a groupthing? I'm not sure I want to know.
WTF is a groupthing? I'm not sure I want to know.
Posted by: pendejo grande at May 13, 2009 08:56 AM (PXZI9)
4
I can hardly wait for the MSM to start spinning the CIA as a rogue outfit full of loose cannons and neocon holdovers.
It's inevitable.
I can hardly wait for the MSM to start spinning the CIA as a rogue outfit full of loose cannons and neocon holdovers.
It's inevitable.
Posted by: Tinian at May 13, 2009 09:03 AM (70sTG)
5
let the memo leaking begin
Posted by: slizzle at May 13, 2009 09:10 AM (zG+3k)
6
You fuck with the bull, you get the horns.
Posted by: JackStraw at May 13, 2009 09:11 AM (VW9/y)
7
LOL, if you read the Senate investigation into the “Bush Lied and yellow cake” fiasco you will find the real reason Valeri Plame sent her incompetent husband to Niger. They did not want the military intelligence committee to get a head up on them. After they sent him they then realized they could get a dig in at Bush.
The CIA , like all government agencies, is full of political hacks who are best at covering their own asses and building empires. The people who are actually on the ground doing the work are few and far between. The human intelligence side of the house was decimated by the Democraps back during the Carter years and has never recovered.
Now the Democraps are finding that these political hacks can and will fight them as well as the Repubs. Look for more decimation.
The CIA , like all government agencies, is full of political hacks who are best at covering their own asses and building empires. The people who are actually on the ground doing the work are few and far between. The human intelligence side of the house was decimated by the Democraps back during the Carter years and has never recovered.
Now the Democraps are finding that these political hacks can and will fight them as well as the Repubs. Look for more decimation.
Posted by: Vic at May 13, 2009 09:12 AM (f6os6)
8
is beck hell bent on taking down acorn? God i hope so
Posted by: slizzle at May 13, 2009 09:13 AM (zG+3k)
9
Aside from the glorious schadenfreude, an government agency should not be allowed to wield this kind of power and influence.
Possibly, but riddle me this, techie--what is the entire branch of government that wants to pretend that it is never, ever, ever responsible for anything?
Possibly, but riddle me this, techie--what is the entire branch of government that wants to pretend that it is never, ever, ever responsible for anything?
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 13, 2009 09:14 AM (B+qrE)
10
Pelosi should step down for her blatant and arrogant attempt to make the people look stupid.
All the other stuff is a feeble attempt at taking people's eyes off the ball.
All the other stuff is a feeble attempt at taking people's eyes off the ball.
Posted by: Drider at May 13, 2009 09:16 AM (HaJD9)
11
Carl Levin is a dick anyway.
Posted by: Vic at May 13, 2009 09:16 AM (f6os6)
12
dont forget the gutting Clinton did with the "we will no longer deal with unsavory charactors" anyone who knows anything about intel. you have to deal with those people to get to the big fish for the people who are involved in wrong doing, arent the most upstanding citizens....and thats day one stuff.
Posted by: slizzle at May 13, 2009 09:16 AM (zG+3k)
13
That's what you call an inconvenient truth.
Posted by: huerfano at May 13, 2009 09:18 AM (knHvu)
14
This on top of the memo yesterday about global warming.
Harf. Harf. Harf.
Harf. Harf. Harf.
Posted by: eddiebear at May 13, 2009 09:19 AM (wnU1W)
15
Is leaking classified info patriotic or unpatriotic?
I'll have to wait for the enchanted media to tell me.
I'll have to wait for the enchanted media to tell me.
Posted by: Warden at May 13, 2009 09:22 AM (XGvLe)
16
Pushback is a bitch!
Posted by: Dan F at May 13, 2009 09:22 AM (X69s8)
17
Is leaking classified info patriotic or unpatriotic
I don’t believe this memo was classified. The Dems would be screaming for investigations if it was. The NYT can print classified info and it is “whistle blowing” but if the CIA “leaks something that hurts them it is criminal.
I don’t believe this memo was classified. The Dems would be screaming for investigations if it was. The NYT can print classified info and it is “whistle blowing” but if the CIA “leaks something that hurts them it is criminal.
Posted by: Vic at May 13, 2009 09:25 AM (f6os6)
18
Bwhahaha! Quick, somebody call Joe the Plumber!
Posted by: runningrn at May 13, 2009 09:26 AM (aC/SY)
19
Goose gander, bull horns, Superman cape, etc. etc.
Yeah, I agree I don't like the power the agencies have, but I do not blame those who are being hung out to dry from doing everything possible to protect themselves.
Yeah, I agree I don't like the power the agencies have, but I do not blame those who are being hung out to dry from doing everything possible to protect themselves.
Posted by: alexthechick at May 13, 2009 09:26 AM (SHHaV)
20
Keep in mind that this isn't partisan, it’s really not.
The Democrats forgot that and now they are paying the price.
This is the CIA protecting itself .. from Democrats and Republicans.
The Democrats forgot that and now they are paying the price.
This is the CIA protecting itself .. from Democrats and Republicans.
Posted by: Neo at May 13, 2009 09:29 AM (5d1ix)
21
Is leaking classified info patriotic or unpatriotic?
It depends on who is embarassed or indicted.
It depends on who is embarassed or indicted.
Posted by: huerfano at May 13, 2009 09:33 AM (knHvu)
22
I love this shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: MES41067 at May 13, 2009 09:34 AM (VmAoa)
23
What I still don't get... is why didn't the Dems realizethat with a full investigation, this damaging info would be coming out?
Why would the CIA allow itself to be so maligned without biting back. Of course they wouldn't. Are the Demsso drunk with power that they think they're invincable? I don't get it.
Why would the CIA allow itself to be so maligned without biting back. Of course they wouldn't. Are the Demsso drunk with power that they think they're invincable? I don't get it.
Posted by: Nice Deb at May 13, 2009 09:35 AM (r+lWr)
Posted by: JackStraw at May 13, 2009 09:35 AM (VW9/y)
25
The top Dems screamed for answers, the CIA just helped them out.
Posted by: momma at May 13, 2009 09:37 AM (penCf)
Posted by: rancho at May 13, 2009 09:37 AM (NegFp)
27
Wait until the military starts absorbing excess casualties once the Angel of Light releases the Holy Grail of liberalism--photos depicting torture of our fellow men. I hope we slow-roll him in every theater.
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at May 13, 2009 09:38 AM (XoYY8)
28
"8
is beck hell bent on taking down acorn? God i hope so
Posted by: slizzle at May 13, 2009 09:13 AM (zG+3k)"Think of the money that will be saved! What do they do again?
is beck hell bent on taking down acorn? God i hope so
Posted by: slizzle at May 13, 2009 09:13 AM (zG+3k)"Think of the money that will be saved! What do they do again?
Posted by: muffy at May 13, 2009 09:39 AM (zplc6)
Posted by: Fred Ralista at May 13, 2009 09:40 AM (ooN+B)
30
It would surprise me in the least if our Dark Lord and Master, the honorable D. Cheney, is behind the leaking. Oh Dick, you magnificent bastard!
Posted by: MrsPaulsFishSticks at May 13, 2009 09:41 AM (iYbLN)
31
The very formation of the CIA in the postwar years was probably a mistake. The OSS during World War II was basically a bunch of cowboys who were a little too impressed with the cloak-and-dagger stuff (which they inherited from the British, who didn't do it that well either).
It was never terribly effective, but the Democrats (most famously JFK) have a deep love for the "undercover operator" nonsense -- as long as there is no negative blowback. As soon as a Bahia des Cochinos blows up in your face, as soon as some of the nastier stuff in Vietnam come to light, you convene the Church Commission and strip the CIA of whatever field expertise it had. The NSA does electronic intel better than the CIA does, and the DIA/ONI offices are better at analysis. The CIA has no brief, strategically.
I'd rather put intel gathering and analysis back in the military, where it belongs. I know that civilian control of this kind of thing is a sacred cow, but it's proven to be lamentable in practice over the past five decades. If the civvies must have some intel-gathering capability, simply suborn the CIA into State (which is another Democrat stronghold anyway).
It was never terribly effective, but the Democrats (most famously JFK) have a deep love for the "undercover operator" nonsense -- as long as there is no negative blowback. As soon as a Bahia des Cochinos blows up in your face, as soon as some of the nastier stuff in Vietnam come to light, you convene the Church Commission and strip the CIA of whatever field expertise it had. The NSA does electronic intel better than the CIA does, and the DIA/ONI offices are better at analysis. The CIA has no brief, strategically.
I'd rather put intel gathering and analysis back in the military, where it belongs. I know that civilian control of this kind of thing is a sacred cow, but it's proven to be lamentable in practice over the past five decades. If the civvies must have some intel-gathering capability, simply suborn the CIA into State (which is another Democrat stronghold anyway).
Posted by: Monty at May 13, 2009 09:41 AM (/0a60)
32
>>What I still don't get... is why didn't the Dems realize that with a full investigation, this damaging info would be coming out?
Because they have been able to get away with lies for years without being called on it. It leads to a a belief that you are above the rules that us little people live by.
Next great awakening, the msm will be shocked, SHOCKED to find out that we are well on our way to bankruptcy and 3rd world status despite the promises of the Light Worker.
Because they have been able to get away with lies for years without being called on it. It leads to a a belief that you are above the rules that us little people live by.
Next great awakening, the msm will be shocked, SHOCKED to find out that we are well on our way to bankruptcy and 3rd world status despite the promises of the Light Worker.
Posted by: JackStraw at May 13, 2009 09:43 AM (VW9/y)
33
Didn't the Dems watch any of those damn Bourne movies?
Posted by: Ostral B Heretic at May 13, 2009 09:43 AM (OtE8p)
34
IMO - It is necessary to keep this all in perspective. The CIA is only slightly less left than the far left. It's beneficial for them to operate in an environment of high central control (less people to have to answer to - because they don't want to answer to anyone). They've got a great game going for them. They can do as little or as much as they want and spend a lot of money doing it. They can say whatever they want and normally, they are believed no matter how reliable their information. If fingers get pointed in their direction, they are protected by the ominous "cloak of secrecy". This is just a dust up about people trying to put their shoe in the door. Once those people feel enough pressure to pull their foot out, happy days will be here again.
Posted by: Kae Gregory at May 13, 2009 09:46 AM (E+9ug)
35
Now that we have a Marxist in the White House the one thing we can count on is a purge. There probably won't be any dead bodies though, only a lot of dead careers. The agency may suffer terriblecollateraldamage from the surgical hammer and sickle, but Obama and Joe are so super smart it's not like they need the help anyway.
Posted by: publicserf at May 13, 2009 09:48 AM (loRWh)
36
Leaks? You say LEAKS! I say turn the durned fire hose of leaks on San Fran Nan and wash that a miserable botoxed critter clear out of office. She's so dumb she thinks she can drink from a fire hydrant without getting splashed.
Posted by: San Francisco Kid at May 13, 2009 09:49 AM (UHTK+)
37
Wasn't much of a problem when the CIA were leaking damaging things against Bush.
Posted by: bill-tb at May 13, 2009 09:51 AM (7evkT)
38
23 What I still don't get... Posted by: Nice Deb
Deb, I wondered this myself. And I agree, the answer is not organizational or administrative or otherwise rational in any way. I've been beating this drum on other forums: to account for the actions of the leftists now -- and especially the Won and his minions -- you have to go to the realm of perverse psychology. We are literally in the hands of sick people, half-mad. Delusional, narcissistic, malignant, projection -- get out your college words they're gonna be useful.
Deb, I wondered this myself. And I agree, the answer is not organizational or administrative or otherwise rational in any way. I've been beating this drum on other forums: to account for the actions of the leftists now -- and especially the Won and his minions -- you have to go to the realm of perverse psychology. We are literally in the hands of sick people, half-mad. Delusional, narcissistic, malignant, projection -- get out your college words they're gonna be useful.
Posted by: arhooley at May 13, 2009 09:51 AM (wFcnN)
39
Why would the CIA allow itself to be so maligned
without biting back. Of course they wouldn't. Are the Demsso drunk
with power that they think they're invincable?
Posted by: Nice Deb at May 13, 2009 09:35 AM (r+lWr)
The answer is YES.
Two words:
Church Committee.
Why would the CIA allow itself to be so maligned
without biting back. Of course they wouldn't. Are the Demsso drunk
with power that they think they're invincable?
Posted by: Nice Deb at May 13, 2009 09:35 AM (r+lWr)
The answer is YES.
Two words:
Church Committee.
Posted by: Tinian at May 13, 2009 09:52 AM (70sTG)
40
The CIA is only slightly less left than the far left.
Well...not really. At the risk of sounding rather mysterious, I used to know some folks who have done some fairly interesting stuff, and none of them are what I'd call granola-eaters.
Many of these folks operate in a realm where the rule if law is at best an academic concept, at worst an actual roadblock to getting important things done. They know that their successes can never be touted, while their failures are sometimes catastrophic (9/11 being the most obvious). It leads many of them down one of two paths: careerism and bureaucratic inertia; or an active hostility towards Congress and a tendency to "beg forgiveness rather than ask permission".
There is a bunker-mentality in Langley that puts it into opposition with Congress no matter the political party in power at the time (recall that the Church Commission was led by Frank Church, a Democrat).
Well...not really. At the risk of sounding rather mysterious, I used to know some folks who have done some fairly interesting stuff, and none of them are what I'd call granola-eaters.
Many of these folks operate in a realm where the rule if law is at best an academic concept, at worst an actual roadblock to getting important things done. They know that their successes can never be touted, while their failures are sometimes catastrophic (9/11 being the most obvious). It leads many of them down one of two paths: careerism and bureaucratic inertia; or an active hostility towards Congress and a tendency to "beg forgiveness rather than ask permission".
There is a bunker-mentality in Langley that puts it into opposition with Congress no matter the political party in power at the time (recall that the Church Commission was led by Frank Church, a Democrat).
Posted by: Monty at May 13, 2009 09:55 AM (/0a60)
41
I wish someone wasout to getthe Democrats.
Posted by: TheQuietMan at May 13, 2009 10:00 AM (1Jaio)
42
7. Vic....couldn't agree more. The movie Burn After Reading offers a good view inside the CIA...bunch of stooges...missed the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and subsequent collapse, the rise of radical Islam and al Qaeda, Pakistan nuke development, tracking Iraqi WMD, etc.
Posted by: Phil at May 13, 2009 10:04 AM (L8jeB)
43
In 'Nam my Lrrp Team was assigned to a SF Det. and briefed buy some spook that flew in on a silver Air America slick with phillipino door gunners dressed in white shirts and black pants and the head spook was wearing jungle jim khakis, they told us just what they wanted from us and then dismissed us, my point is when the head spook or operative is given a mission he runs his own Op on the ground. We were just point men for the Op and expendable with very little knowledge of the real mission, that's the way it still works. I have mixed feelings about the CIA, but hey, I'll take them and their tactics any day over the dorkbats!
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at May 13, 2009 10:10 AM (wtt6i)
44
A top congressional official who has participated in the briefings added: “I think the agency wanted to get this out, quite frankly.”
Well shit, ya gotta give credit where it's due.
Well shit, ya gotta give credit where it's due.
Posted by: SFC MAC at May 13, 2009 10:10 AM (dX8Ae)
45
What I still don't get... is why didn't the Dems realizethat with a
full investigation, this damaging info would be coming out?
I think that in Pelosi's case, it's likely that she's just that ditzy. She probably honestly doesn't remember ever being briefed or told by her aide about waterboarding.
But that scenario is far more frightening to me than assuming she lied. It plumbs new depths of incompetence.
full investigation, this damaging info would be coming out?
I think that in Pelosi's case, it's likely that she's just that ditzy. She probably honestly doesn't remember ever being briefed or told by her aide about waterboarding.
But that scenario is far more frightening to me than assuming she lied. It plumbs new depths of incompetence.
Posted by: geoff at May 13, 2009 10:17 AM (5hk6n)
46
'Nam Grunt:
Were you in I Corps or III Corps?
I had an uncle (a Marine) who was part of a recon company up north near the Cambodian/Laotian border. He was injured and evacuated in 1968.
Were you in I Corps or III Corps?
I had an uncle (a Marine) who was part of a recon company up north near the Cambodian/Laotian border. He was injured and evacuated in 1968.
Posted by: Monty at May 13, 2009 10:20 AM (/0a60)
47
46 Monty,
The Op I was speaking of was on the Camodian border in III corps, I later found out that it was part of the Phoenix Program. ;-)
The Op I was speaking of was on the Camodian border in III corps, I later found out that it was part of the Phoenix Program. ;-)
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at May 13, 2009 10:22 AM (wtt6i)
48
D. Cheney, is behind the leaking.
This needs to be repeated and repeated...there was NO LEAK.
This info was officially requested by Hoeksta April 20th and then released. May go further than usual CIA memo's and they may broke their neck to get it out but it was NOT A LEAK.
That's why the Dem whining is all the more repulsive.
This needs to be repeated and repeated...there was NO LEAK.
This info was officially requested by Hoeksta April 20th and then released. May go further than usual CIA memo's and they may broke their neck to get it out but it was NOT A LEAK.
That's why the Dem whining is all the more repulsive.
Posted by: Topsecretk9 at May 13, 2009 10:28 AM (ih9G5)
49
Nam Grunt:
Ah, yes. Those Jungle Joes in their Action Man khaki outfits. My uncle never had much good to say about those CIA dudes. My uncle said that most of those guys thought they were in some kind of James Bond movie. They'd stir up the hornet's nest and then bug out, leaving the Marines to deal with the swarm. They had some kind of big deal going with the Montagnard natives somewhere upcountry; probably some kind of insurgent training camp where the 'Yards were tagged to infiltrate the North.
My uncle never did anything with the Phoenix guys (at least, not that he told me), but he did have to scout for certain unnamed "assets" in the Marine AO near the DMZ.
Ah, yes. Those Jungle Joes in their Action Man khaki outfits. My uncle never had much good to say about those CIA dudes. My uncle said that most of those guys thought they were in some kind of James Bond movie. They'd stir up the hornet's nest and then bug out, leaving the Marines to deal with the swarm. They had some kind of big deal going with the Montagnard natives somewhere upcountry; probably some kind of insurgent training camp where the 'Yards were tagged to infiltrate the North.
My uncle never did anything with the Phoenix guys (at least, not that he told me), but he did have to scout for certain unnamed "assets" in the Marine AO near the DMZ.
Posted by: Monty at May 13, 2009 10:29 AM (/0a60)
50
I might add that even though this crap is still happening on the ground, I'm sure more info is being shared with those involved in Sp Op's, the days of huge amounts of Infantry is over, since all of the services are going to small Sp Op's teams, quick strike with grrrowling air support.
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at May 13, 2009 10:30 AM (wtt6i)
51
What the Dems are saying - since this was not a leak- is the CIA is out to get us because they are not redacting or withholding all truthful information that reveals what lying sacks of shit we are.
Posted by: Topsecretk9 at May 13, 2009 10:31 AM (ih9G5)
52
49 Monty,
I only went on 2 Op's with those folks the rest were for my unit (173rd Abn Bde) the other involved 'yards on the Laos border, great fighters for sure, but only loyal to whomever happened to be around at the time giving them "stuff". ;-)
I only went on 2 Op's with those folks the rest were for my unit (173rd Abn Bde) the other involved 'yards on the Laos border, great fighters for sure, but only loyal to whomever happened to be around at the time giving them "stuff". ;-)
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at May 13, 2009 10:37 AM (wtt6i)
53
I should write a book Monty, but there have been so many written by folks that were never there and it wouldn't get any credibility, so what's the point. lol
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at May 13, 2009 10:40 AM (wtt6i)
54
The only difference between todays Brave Men and 'Nam Vets are the toys they have, the patriotism is still the same. ;-)
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at May 13, 2009 10:44 AM (wtt6i)
55
I firmly believe these Congressional types don't lie in the sense that they don't think about what they said or did a few years ago. They don't need to, it's all about the here and now, and if these people decided they needed to "get" the bad people who tortured the poor innocents, it would never occur to them that they had any knowledge or responsibility for policy that was set 7 years ago.
Heck, we've had 3 election cycles since then, including a change in their majority status, along with a change in the administration's party! What possible reason could they have forchecking what they were saying or doing back then? They've already accomplished everything they set out to do back then, what they do now is completely different.
Heck, we've had 3 election cycles since then, including a change in their majority status, along with a change in the administration's party! What possible reason could they have forchecking what they were saying or doing back then? They've already accomplished everything they set out to do back then, what they do now is completely different.
Posted by: Quality Control at May 13, 2009 10:46 AM (TOk1P)
56
Did somebody call for a Waaaaaaaaaaaahmbulance ?
Posted by: Neo at May 13, 2009 10:48 AM (5d1ix)
57
'Nam Grunt:
Hey, I'd read your book. Too many of the books from that war were written by leftist douchebags like David Halberstam and other "journalists" who (like today) went in already knowing what story they wanted to write.
I think the best battle-history from that era I've read so far is Hell in a Very Small Place, and that was about the siege of Dien Bien Phu when the French were still trying to run the show. Caputo's A Rumor of War is pretty good, but is more a memoir than a history. And even though it's a novel, James Webb's Fields of Fire is a hell of a good read.
Hey, I'd read your book. Too many of the books from that war were written by leftist douchebags like David Halberstam and other "journalists" who (like today) went in already knowing what story they wanted to write.
I think the best battle-history from that era I've read so far is Hell in a Very Small Place, and that was about the siege of Dien Bien Phu when the French were still trying to run the show. Caputo's A Rumor of War is pretty good, but is more a memoir than a history. And even though it's a novel, James Webb's Fields of Fire is a hell of a good read.
Posted by: Monty at May 13, 2009 10:54 AM (/0a60)
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at May 13, 2009 10:56 AM (wtt6i)
59
We didn't lose that war , we had no support. ;-)
Amen! In fact, you were very close to winning the war! F'in peace lovin' libs. They ALL have blood on their hands!
Amen! In fact, you were very close to winning the war! F'in peace lovin' libs. They ALL have blood on their hands!
Posted by: momma at May 13, 2009 11:04 AM (penCf)
60
Nam Grunt:
The war was won when the troops left in '71. The South Vietnamese gave it up in 1975 when the North re-invaded. And the US Congress sold them down the river by withdrawing support. The soldiers did their job; it was the fucking politicians both here and in South Vietnam who screwed it up.
The war was won when the troops left in '71. The South Vietnamese gave it up in 1975 when the North re-invaded. And the US Congress sold them down the river by withdrawing support. The soldiers did their job; it was the fucking politicians both here and in South Vietnam who screwed it up.
Posted by: Monty at May 13, 2009 11:06 AM (/0a60)
Posted by: Jean at May 13, 2009 11:28 AM (L64A6)
62
Watch out Nancy. Jason Bourne is coming for YOU!
Posted by: MAJHAM at May 13, 2009 11:39 AM (c2P97)
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Monty The war was won when the troops left in '71
By really close, I meant a day or two. But you said it much better than I.
By really close, I meant a day or two. But you said it much better than I.
Posted by: momma at May 13, 2009 11:55 AM (penCf)
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65 momma,
My 2nd tour was in Jan. '71 and there was still a lot of crap going on, course I was a platoon Sgt. of an Infantry platoon then, and we were still on the offensive. ;-)
My 2nd tour was in Jan. '71 and there was still a lot of crap going on, course I was a platoon Sgt. of an Infantry platoon then, and we were still on the offensive. ;-)
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at May 13, 2009 11:58 AM (wtt6i)
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Nam Grunt
Know that the next generation (at least my children) IS being taught about your bravery, heroism, and sacrafice.When my 3 year old sees a soldier, he walks up to them, shakes their hand and says thank you.
I also believe that you should write your experiences down. The media you use doesn't matter, but your words do.I am one that would love tolearn of your voyages.
Know that the next generation (at least my children) IS being taught about your bravery, heroism, and sacrafice.When my 3 year old sees a soldier, he walks up to them, shakes their hand and says thank you.
I also believe that you should write your experiences down. The media you use doesn't matter, but your words do.I am one that would love tolearn of your voyages.
Posted by: momma at May 13, 2009 12:13 PM (penCf)
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As a federal employee in the Executive Branch way outside of DC (no other specifics to be offered) I'm damned glad to see the CIA "unofficially" fighting back. When Congress jerks us around, we prepare briefings to inform them of the truth, but they make it clear to our leadership that they don't want anything released that would make them appear to be wrong or lying. And so they go on grandstanding, and our pussy leadership falls in line, whip in hand, and self-flagellates. Those of us at the working level who know the truth is so often hidden in press releases that denigrate our efforts are applauding these CIA "leaks". Teach those attorney bastards in Congress that they can't screw all of us all of the time!
Posted by: Wittanzy at May 13, 2009 12:14 PM (wmhZ0)
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67 momma,
Maybe someday, I'm certainly trying to develop a plan to tell the truth about these lying bastards that are running our Country. ;-)
Maybe someday, I'm certainly trying to develop a plan to tell the truth about these lying bastards that are running our Country. ;-)
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at May 13, 2009 12:18 PM (wtt6i)
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'Nam Grunt:
Just remember that while officers get to write the reports, you have to go to an NCO to find out what really happened!
Just remember that while officers get to write the reports, you have to go to an NCO to find out what really happened!
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I don't care about the money, if I decide to do it I would do it for cost of production and give it away, signed of course. hahaha!
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at May 13, 2009 12:32 PM (wtt6i)
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The CIA treatment of "W" and his administration wasunethical anddefinitely unpatriotic. I used to root for them but now know they, like State, are nothing but agroupthink packof knee-jerk liberals. They proved over the last two decades and continue to demonstrate that their actions are irrelevant to the welfare of the country.
Posted by: iowavette at May 13, 2009 12:43 PM (0JTac)
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'Nam Grunt:
If you decide to get anything going with a book, make sure you let us know. Some of the "readers" of this blog don't actually read it per say, they just get the headlines sent through an email. I know my dad would be very interested in anything you had to say. He was a Dustoff pilot, 2 tours. I forward him everything I can find, and he finds that much more on his own.
Keep us in the know, and give us all your stories! We'll make sure the word gets out.
If you decide to get anything going with a book, make sure you let us know. Some of the "readers" of this blog don't actually read it per say, they just get the headlines sent through an email. I know my dad would be very interested in anything you had to say. He was a Dustoff pilot, 2 tours. I forward him everything I can find, and he finds that much more on his own.
Keep us in the know, and give us all your stories! We'll make sure the word gets out.
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Posted by: shibumi at May 13, 2009 01:10 PM (OKZrE)
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The CIA is guilty of nothing more than what goes on in all medium-to-large sized organizations. You just don't piss off the people who know your secrets. I'm in middle-management and have outlasted people above me to didn't want me around. I hate the word "guru" but I've been our organization's technology guru. When you have access to private emails and embarassing memos that are in "private" areas of the network, you basically own that person and you sock away that information in case you ever need it. It's an ugly truth but when someone has an agenda against you and you hold irrefutable evidence, well, it's a good place to be. In 20 years in the field, I've only had to use it against one corrupt former Enron employee who became my direct supervisor. When he started his spiel to me about wanting to lessen my popularity with the users (getting rid of me eventually) and bringing in some buddies from Enron, I handed him an email to his secretary that he "must have left lying on the printer". He's been gone almost7 years and I'm still here. It's ugly but you have to protect yourself from those who would throw you under the bus for their own gain. The CIA knew enough secretsto preventGranny Rictus from throwing them under the bus.
Posted by: MarkO at May 13, 2009 01:19 PM (n8Nln)
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The CIA is much better at the game than the politicians.
I want the CIA to bring them all down.
I want the CIA to bring them all down.
Posted by: izoneguy at May 13, 2009 01:25 PM (3k9TU)
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i feel sorry for the CIA, neutered by the Clintons to the point where they can't even take down a two-bit, tin horn like Saddam, now they are just a political football to be kicked back and forth.
it's sad really
so to all you CIA folks that actually want your Agency back, stick it to both parties as hard as you can, be ruthless, be decieptive, be smart.
fuck them over before they fuck you over, that's what we have become so let the games begin!
it's sad really
so to all you CIA folks that actually want your Agency back, stick it to both parties as hard as you can, be ruthless, be decieptive, be smart.
fuck them over before they fuck you over, that's what we have become so let the games begin!
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The CIA is a bunch of prostitutes. They will tow the Obamanazi line as long as they benefit. Doubt it, watch how State, the FBI and ATF act, do you seriously believe the CIA is different?
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With the Congressional Budget Office release that SS/Medicare are, statistically, bankrupt (and have been for years), you'd be right.
60+ TRILLION dollars in the red.... that's roughly 6 years of TOTAL GDP (present levels) output. No wonder Obambi want's to rope in the banks, insurance companies, auto makers, etc - you can't steal it unless you control it...
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Posted by: Fred Zeppelin at May 13, 2009 02:48 PM (8+4es)
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T J said -
The CIA is a bunch of prostitutes. They will tow the Obamanazi line as
long as they benefit. Doubt it, watch how State, the FBI and ATF act,
do you seriously believe the CIA is different?
The Farm will do what it needs to do. Like all bureaucratic lifeforms, they first protect their environment, their sub organisms, and their way of life
But, if they find themselves being pimped out, whored, or being used like a $2 mule, they are obviously going to balk.
There are ample good tell-all books (ASHES is my current fav) that tell of life at the Farm, and the ongoings. Pretty much the same thing every other Intel agency (INSCOM was my haunt, and, boy, were there some wild times there...) and agency. The fight for survival (budgetary, existance, and opposing the threats) is very real, and a two way street.
Benefit is an illusion - survival and budgetary conserns are far more practical than attaboys, glory, or heaping of laurels.
The CIA is a bunch of prostitutes. They will tow the Obamanazi line as
long as they benefit. Doubt it, watch how State, the FBI and ATF act,
do you seriously believe the CIA is different?
The Farm will do what it needs to do. Like all bureaucratic lifeforms, they first protect their environment, their sub organisms, and their way of life
But, if they find themselves being pimped out, whored, or being used like a $2 mule, they are obviously going to balk.
There are ample good tell-all books (ASHES is my current fav) that tell of life at the Farm, and the ongoings. Pretty much the same thing every other Intel agency (INSCOM was my haunt, and, boy, were there some wild times there...) and agency. The fight for survival (budgetary, existance, and opposing the threats) is very real, and a two way street.
Benefit is an illusion - survival and budgetary conserns are far more practical than attaboys, glory, or heaping of laurels.
Posted by: Fred Zeppelin at May 13, 2009 03:18 PM (8+4es)
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The Pubbies should push for investigations. There is no down side for them since their supporters are for waterboarding anyway. But I suspect we will find a very large number of Dems who went about pretending to be outraged by "torture" while authorizing it or at least standing by and doing nothing about it.
I always said the whole terrorist's rights movement was just to impress the rubes. Obama outflanked Hillary by being enough of a rube himself to actually believe all of it. No one on the left thought anyone that stupid would end up actually winning. SURPRISE!!! That's what happens when you rile up the mouth breathers.
I always said the whole terrorist's rights movement was just to impress the rubes. Obama outflanked Hillary by being enough of a rube himself to actually believe all of it. No one on the left thought anyone that stupid would end up actually winning. SURPRISE!!! That's what happens when you rile up the mouth breathers.
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Frequently Asked Questions
The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Primary Document: The Audio
Paul Anka Haiku Contest Announcement
Integrity SAT's: Entrance Exam for Paul Anka's Band
AllahPundit's Paul Anka 45's Collection
AnkaPundit: Paul Anka Takes Over the Site for a Weekend (Continues through to Monday's postings)
George Bush Slices Don Rumsfeld Like an F*ckin' Hammer
Paul Anka Haiku Contest Announcement
Integrity SAT's: Entrance Exam for Paul Anka's Band
AllahPundit's Paul Anka 45's Collection
AnkaPundit: Paul Anka Takes Over the Site for a Weekend (Continues through to Monday's postings)
George Bush Slices Don Rumsfeld Like an F*ckin' Hammer
Top Top Tens
Democratic Forays into Erotica
New Shows On Gore's DNC/MTV Network
Nicknames for Potatoes, By People Who Really Hate Potatoes
Star Wars Euphemisms for Self-Abuse
Signs You're at an Iraqi "Wedding Party"
Signs Your Clown Has Gone Bad
Signs That You, Geroge Michael, Should Probably Just Give It Up
Signs of Hip-Hop Influence on John Kerry
NYT Headlines Spinning Bush's Jobs Boom
Things People Are More Likely to Say Than "Did You Hear What Al Franken Said Yesterday?"
Signs that Paul Krugman Has Lost His Frickin' Mind
All-Time Best NBA Players, According to Senator Robert Byrd
Other Bad Things About the Jews, According to the Koran
Signs That David Letterman Just Doesn't Care Anymore
Examples of Bob Kerrey's Insufferable Racial Jackassery
Signs Andy Rooney Is Going Senile
Other Judgments Dick Clarke Made About Condi Rice Based on Her Appearance
Collective Names for Groups of People
John Kerry's Other Vietnam Super-Pets
Cool Things About the XM8 Assault Rifle
Media-Approved Facts About the Democrat Spy
Changes to Make Christianity More "Inclusive"
Secret John Kerry Senatorial Accomplishments
John Edwards Campaign Excuses
John Kerry Pick-Up Lines
Changes Liberal Senator George Michell Will Make at Disney
Torments in Dog-Hell
Greatest Hitjobs
The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon
A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates
Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny
More Margaret Cho Abuse
Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
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