A Coming Coup In China? Not So Fast...

Most of us remember the fall of the Soviet Union, which was predicted by exactly nobody in our intelligence institutions, many of whom were predicting exactly the opposite. Of course the conditions for its fall were created by a B list actor, an electrician in the Lenin Shipyard in Gdańsk, and a Polish priest in Rome. They were helped by a few basic laws of economics and human nature, and the hubris of the vast Soviet bureaucracy, led by the Politburo and the Central Committee.

And to the East was a large and even more backwards country that instituted many of the same draconian economic and social strictures on its people. They had their own trouble with immutable laws of economics and the desire of many people to be free -- The Tiananmen Square Massacre was the culmination of months of protests, driven by students but seemingly embraced by many others. But the neo-Mandarins had been looking both east and west, and had begun a program of economic liberalization that they hoped would placate the people and improve the dim prospects of a communist economy. So they put down the revolt with tanks while continuing to loosen their hold on the economy.

Fast forward 30 years and they had created a huge economic engine driven by easy credit and the insatiable desire of the Western world for China's inexpensive (and cheap) consumer goods. How? By seeing the flaws of a pure socialist command economy and loosening the restrictions on private enterprise.

And it worked. But how to keep control of a populace that has a taste of relative prosperity and can see what freedom looks like just a few miles off China's coasts? Were they unwittingly prepping the battlespace for another protest like 1989's? One led not from the universities but from the highest ranks of the communist party and the army?

Roger Garside: A Coming Coup Will End China's Communist Dictatorship

They can see the problems, the deep-seated, long-standing problems in China, caused by the system of totalitarian dictatorship, which they have. They understand those problems better than the people in the outside world do.
They can see better than most people can see, that this regime is outwardly strong, but inwardly weak. And that it’s in a state of political decay. And that their best hope for preserving their own wealth and power, as well as the best hope for China, is to lead a coup d’etat to remove Xi Jinping and to launch China into a democratic transition.

Wouldn't it be pretty to think so?

But it is not to be. The rulers of China have embraced several things that will effectively minimize the possibility of any coup attempt, no matter its origins, from being successful.

First and most powerful is Western internet technology that gives them access, and the ability to observe, every form of communication. The police State is alive and well and living in every Chinese smart phone and every computer.

Garside addresses the issue, and his response is a forlorn hope that someday...

We have to find a way of breaking through the extremely efficient system of censorship. Because I believe that when the Chinese people know the truth, they will be outraged to learn the lies they have been fed, generation after generation and the tragedies which have been covered up generation after generation.

That is a noble thought, but the Chinese surveillance state is comprehensive. The gift of Western technology destroyed the advantage that any nascent rebels and revolutionaries might have. Now the Police State can be proactive rather than reactive, so scenes like Tank Man in Tiananmen Squire will no longer be possible.

Second is the example of the Soviet Union. They have a playbook for how to fail, and they have read it, and are acting accordingly. They loosened economic controls to unleash the pent-up desire for a better life, and while they re-tighten those controls now and again, it is a powerful tool to shift the gaze of the Chinese people from Western wealth to Chinese growth and future wealth.

And the third is traditional Chinese nationalism. They may dislike their rulers in Peking, but those rulers are demonizing the West and making them the new enemies of the Chinese people.

We all want to believe that in the natural state of humanity is the desire to to be free, to manage our affairs without interference. And in many people that is the case, but not in all, or in nearly the numbers required to combat China's comprehensive internal security and its demonstrated comfort with ruthless crackdowns on any who seem to be pushing back against its power.

Posted by: CBD at 12:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 One brave soul

Posted by: Skip at June 20, 2021 11:01 AM (Cxk7w)

2 Dutifully called as always
I have my doubts, under a totalitarian regime it has to be the hardest thing to do. At best the military would have to do it and that doesn't happen often.

Posted by: Skip at June 20, 2021 11:03 AM (Cxk7w)

3 China is about due for an implosion. They tend to blow up about every 50-75 years and the last one was in 1949.

Posted by: Mister Scott (formerly GWS) at June 20, 2021 11:05 AM (JUOKG)

4 The Gulag Archipelago ( again) shows the entire Soviet system was broken from the get go, misery was always going to be the common denominator for the general population.
China might be same but the population seems to be able to come and go quite a bit, well educated ( no doubt party connected) and more affluent.

Posted by: Skip at June 20, 2021 11:07 AM (Cxk7w)

5
Should have dropped a nuke on Peking (aka Beijing), Shanghai and few other major cities in 1949, liberated Asia and installed democracy in China, saved us all the trouble !

-Armchair generals from previous thread

Posted by: runner at June 20, 2021 11:09 AM (V13WU)

6 We'll eventually have another President who can say bad things about China whenever he wants.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at June 20, 2021 11:09 AM (ybIRR)

7 China is about due for an implosion. They tend to blow up about every 50-75 years and the last one was in 1949.

Posted by: Mister Scott (formerly GWS) at June 20, 2021 11:05 AM (JUOKG)

I would argue the Cultural Revolution...'66-'76.

Posted by: BignJames at June 20, 2021 11:10 AM (AwYPR)

8 Read articles many times recently on the Thread Picture, seems he is 1st still unknown, 2nd no one knows what happen to him.

Posted by: Skip at June 20, 2021 11:10 AM (Cxk7w)

9 China has no Judeo-Christian ethics when it comes to the preservation of human life.

Teeming with a billion plus people, the despots in China can throw away 100 or 200 million and not blink an eye.

As long as they keep the others fed and the democrats paid off, they world will let them keep on truckin...until they bust a spring then the warlords will be back baby!

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 20, 2021 11:11 AM (R/m4+)

10 I don't expect a juneteenth for chinese slaves making lebron's shoes anytime in the near future.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 20, 2021 11:11 AM (r+sAi)

11 Most people don't want to live in Freedom. It's too risky and scary. They want to be told what to do and be cared for by other people.

Pathetic really.

Posted by: Jak Sucio at June 20, 2021 11:11 AM (jvt6t)

12 Walesa would not have been possible if it was not for JPII (who pretty much made it his mission to take down communism, and most likely got the bullet for it) and Reagan. No such commitment as far as China is concerned. Quite the opposite. Much groveling.

Posted by: runner at June 20, 2021 11:12 AM (V13WU)

13 This administration is a wholly owned subsidiary of Chairman Xi and his board of directors. We cannot help China until we have separated ourselves from it.

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 11:13 AM (/FocL)

14 China cannot and will not implode until corporate America and the rest who are addicted to China, let go of China. Which will be when ?

Posted by: runner at June 20, 2021 11:15 AM (V13WU)

15 Trump said pussy!

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 20, 2021 11:16 AM (kTF2Z)

16 "Now the Police State can be proactive rather than reactive, so scenes like Tank Man in Tiananmen Squire will no longer be possible."

"Our own" FBI has also stated their desire to be proactive against patriotic Americans that might rise up against their subversive coup. (they want to identify such leaders in advance, call them white supremacists, and try to entrap a few to keep The Narrative alive.)

The 1/6 Insurrection now appears to be a FBI/CIA/? counter to Trump rallying legit protesters over an (FBI supported) stolen election. FBI had people inside pushing the hot buttons, as they did with the alleged plot to kidnap the Michigan governor.

But with Google/FB and the rest spying on everything, they can identify all Trump/Liberty supporters and identify us as White Supremacist Terrorists. And they have done just that, while actually supporting the real BlamTifa Terrorism.

Posted by: illiniwek at June 20, 2021 11:16 AM (Cus5s)

17 what is the name of the media effect where you read something they wrote on a topic you are knowlegable in and realize they're morons.

And then forget it when you read the next article?

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at June 20, 2021 11:17 AM (YboWf)

18 14 China cannot and will not implode until corporate America and the rest who are addicted to China, let go of China. Which will be when ?

Posted by: runner at June 20, 2021 11:15 AM (V13WU)

#twoweeks

Posted by: coat vendor in hell at June 20, 2021 11:18 AM (DTX3h)

19 China has no Judeo-Christian ethics when it comes to the preservation of human life.I
~~~
Does the USA? Honest question.
1. Our laws dont.
B. I do.
iii. Do our laws reflect our va!ues?

Posted by: AmericanKestrel at June 20, 2021 11:19 AM (IDhUW)

20 The 1/6 Insurrection now appears to be a FBI/CIA/?
counter to Trump rallying legit protesters over an (FBI supported)
stolen election. FBI had people inside pushing the hot buttons, as they
did with the alleged plot to kidnap the Michigan governor.

But with Google/FB and the rest spying on everything, they can
identify all Trump/Liberty supporters and identify us as White
Supremacist Terrorists. And they have done just that, while actually
supporting the real BlamTifa Terrorism.

Posted by: illiniwek at June 20, 2021 11:16 AM

The more the left screams that the fib was not involved in the 1/6 event leads me to believe that they in fact were involved and possibly instigated the entire thing.

Posted by: Mister Scott (formerly GWS) at June 20, 2021 11:20 AM (JUOKG)

21 >We all want to believe that in the natural state of humanity is the desire to to be free, to manage our affairs without interference.

I don't believe this about the Chinese people
I think they are predisposed to being ruled, to having order imposed from top down

I used to think Americans were the exact opposite
many, sadly, are not

YMMV

Posted by: DB- just DB at June 20, 2021 11:20 AM (iTXRQ)

22 what is the name of the media effect where you read something they wrote on a topic you are knowlegable in and realize they're morons.

And then forget it when you read the next article?
Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at June 20, 2021 11:17 AM (YboWf)

-----------

Gell-Mann amnesia.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 20, 2021 11:21 AM (kTF2Z)

23 >>>>But with Google/FB and the rest spying on everything, they can identify all Trump/Liberty supporters and identify us as White Supremacist Terrorists. And they have done just that, while actually supporting the real BlamTifa Terrorism.
Posted by: illiniwek at June 20, 2021 11:16 AM (Cus5s)
----------------

Now that they have identified 75,000,000 Americans what are they going to do with them.

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 11:21 AM (/FocL)

24 iii. Do our laws reflect our va!ues?

Posted by: AmericanKestrel at June 20, 2021 11:19 AM (IDhUW)

Maybe...enforcement is another matter.

Posted by: BignJames at June 20, 2021 11:21 AM (AwYPR)

25 China? I want know how we can get these royals out here!

Posted by: Dr. Bone at June 20, 2021 11:21 AM (HnNKD)

26 Here is a question, is today's China much different from its historical, feudal structure ? A strongman ruling the masses, compliance and obedience from the population, severe punishments for dissenters. Life of Chinese Communism is relatively short, compared to its 5,000 yo history. So, maybe they are moving to their historical ...configuration ?

Posted by: runner at June 20, 2021 11:21 AM (V13WU)

27 The gift of Western technology destroyed the advantage that any nascent rebels and revolutionaries might have.

*******

Maybe Communism previously has failed not because the wrong people were running it (as is often said), but because they did not yet have the proper tools.

Posted by: Muldoon at June 20, 2021 11:22 AM (Fc5rx)

28 At one time, there was an inexhaustible supply of Chinese peasants, so what did a few million executed dissidents here or there mean to the rulers. The one child policy may have changed the dynamics, but I doubt it!
True ruthlessness empowered by 24/7/365 surveillance has a quieting effect!

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar ~ Lay back and think of the sweet graft! ~ at June 20, 2021 11:22 AM (hOUT3)

29 China has two things going for them.

1) They have a perfectly implemented Our Betters/Deplorables Social Set Up. They're like a beautiful looking orange with a fragrant rind of prosperity surrounding a rotten core of poverty and peasantry. (Think the two coasts vs "flyover" country for the US version. And this "rind" of modern cities are forbidden to the general population.

So, control is easy. You can obey and live the good life or alakazam! back to peasantville for you.

2) Chinese Nationalism as mentioned above. The Chinese love their country and love their heritage. They aren't like the US where what 20-50% of the population (ie Democrats) hate America and actively work to destroy and undermine our culture and institutions. Plus, as the Uighers are finding out China is pretty much a monoracial monoculture and they like it that way just fine.

China might have a coup but it'll need to be a Black Swan event like a catastrophic collapse of the 3 Gorges Dam wiping out tens of millions of people and a boat load of industry.

Posted by: naturalfake - THE Unofficial Ambassador of Fatherhood at June 20, 2021 11:22 AM (dWwl8)

30 What does he mean "when the Chinese learn the truth"? They know. Just like enough people in the Soviet Union knew all along.

Just like we know now.

Posted by: ... at June 20, 2021 11:24 AM (uEbPt)

31 We have to find a way of breaking through the extremely efficient system of censorship. Because I believe that when the Chinese people know the truth, they will be outraged to learn the lies they have been fed, generation after generation and the tragedies which have been covered up generation after generation.

Heh. We have a lite version of that going on here in the good ol' U. S. of A.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at June 20, 2021 11:24 AM (W4eKo)

32 Does the USA? Honest question.
1. Our laws dont.
B. I do.
iii. Do our laws reflect our va!ues?
Posted by: AmericanKestrel at June 20, 2021 11:19 AM (IDhUW)

Good question. I think most Americans do, but those in power at the federal level, the media, Hollyweird and the parasites who support them do not and only pay lip service when they need your vote or your money.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 20, 2021 11:24 AM (R/m4+)

33 Just like we know now.
Posted by: ... at June 20, 2021 11:24 AM (uEbPt)

Which truth are you talking about? There are so many to choose from!

/S

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar ~ Lay back and think of the sweet graft! ~ at June 20, 2021 11:25 AM (hOUT3)

34 I look at our western oligarch tech masters who happily developed the means China has used to oppress the minds, diminish the spirit, and extinguish the lives of people in this world. I see no way to differentiate these fiends from their vilest twins in Nazi Germany.

Bezos, Gates, Zuckerburg, so many more. You stand beside and in fraternity with Mengele, Clauberg, Brandt. Together you are wretched signposts pointing to pain and death. You do not walk in my world, my eyes do not see you. God's mercy is infinite and is your only hope. You are the damned.

Posted by: banana Dream at June 20, 2021 11:25 AM (xD3gY)

35 Of course we have Taiwan. Very western, but I think that is a product of British colonial influence that lasted since the Opium Wars.

Posted by: runner at June 20, 2021 11:25 AM (V13WU)

36 Yes with American corporations pumping money into China, our government personnel getting handouts from China, just seeing a regime change.

Posted by: Skip at June 20, 2021 11:25 AM (Cxk7w)

37 thanks.

what's the term for being unable to remember Gell-Mann amnesia?

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at June 20, 2021 11:26 AM (YboWf)

38 I have no idea what the masses of Chinese people feel or think. Only the few defectors bring an idea and by the nature of their success they are not the norm.

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 11:27 AM (/FocL)

39 Maybe Communism previously has failed not because
the wrong people were running it (as is often said), but because they
did not yet have the proper tools.

Posted by: Muldoon at June 20, 2021 11:22 AM (Fc5rx)

Sadly, you may be correct.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 20, 2021 11:27 AM (Q9lwr)

40 Of course we have Taiwan. Very western, but I think that is a product of British colonial influence that lasted since the Opium Wars.
Posted by: runner at June 20, 2021 11:25 AM (V13WU)

You may have used the wrong tense of "to be" there!

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar ~ Lay back and think of the sweet graft! ~ at June 20, 2021 11:27 AM (hOUT3)

41 China just published its 14th 5 year plan. Anybody read it ?

Posted by: runner at June 20, 2021 11:28 AM (V13WU)

42 what's the term for being unable to remember Gell-Mann amnesia?
Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at June 20, 2021 11:26 AM (YboWf)

-----------

The Buzzsaw Effect.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 20, 2021 11:29 AM (kTF2Z)

43 >>>>>>>>>>Bezos, Gates, Zuckerburg, so many more. You stand beside and in fraternity with Mengele, Clauberg, Brandt. Together you are wretched signposts pointing to pain and death. You do not walk in my world, my eyes do not see you.

God's mercy is infinite and is your only hope. You are the damned.

Posted by: banana Dream at June 20, 2021 11:25 AM (xD3gY)

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 11:29 AM (/FocL)

44 Human nature is depressing, isn't it? Obviously we have our own "elites", who sit around with everything they can think of already, and all they can think about is how wonderful it would be if they could manipulate us into China where they could use "tech" to watch and control everyone. And most of them are old and have nothing to fear really but old age and the coming Judgement. But they singlemindedly persist...

Posted by: azjaeger at June 20, 2021 11:30 AM (3/XaG)

45 Just look at half of the population of the USA and see that fairly half are comfortable on the public dole.
Commie China is going nowhere.

Posted by: AceOfPhrase at June 20, 2021 11:31 AM (8iyB1)

46 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 20, 2021 11:27 AM (Q9lwr)

Wait until we see the full power of those tools unleashed upon "us"!

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar ~ Lay back and think of the sweet graft! ~ at June 20, 2021 11:31 AM (hOUT3)

47 Unknown unknowns can surprise, but not prudent to behave as though China's system has the potential for rapid unraveling.

Of course the US just decided to return to the prior course, more/less, of pro forma opposition to China's global influence/economic/intelligence offensive, vs. Trump's vigorous and serious one. So China, while hobbled by several limits, has a mostly clear field.

Probably not rescued, as Tehran's vile regime has been, by our change of administrations, but greatly assisted. Sickening.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 20, 2021 11:31 AM (OTzUX)

48 They may dislike their rulers in Peking, but those rulers are demonizing
the West and making them the new enemies of the Chinese people.

Which is why, distasteful as it may appear, sooner or later, *someone* is going to have to eliminate the CCP militarily, or we will all be ruled by them.

Posted by: Methos at June 20, 2021 11:32 AM (kOpft)

49 Now that they have identified 75,000,000 Americans what are they going to do with them.

Well, first of all, they can hurt them by not sending you your income tax refund.

Mine is delayed. I filed in March.

Yet the Democrats I know got their refunds. It's a small thing, but it is something they are doing.

Posted by: Vyx at June 20, 2021 11:32 AM (tjZg/)

50 Alas our own corrupt and oppressive govt:
https://tinyurl.com/yc9f8s5d

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 20, 2021 11:33 AM (r+sAi)

51 Great topic, CBD.

The control needed for a Social Credit society is untimely static. Because advances are from people unhappy with the status quo.

This leads to a water-control society, just moving in time. It becomes quite vulnerable to an external push. See Mesopotamia and medieval China. And maybe today's US of A and the EU.

The Collapse of Complex Societies by Joseph Tainter, (198

proposes the primary mechanism of collapse is The Law of Diminishing Returns. Gulp. We are there.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:33 AM (u82oZ)

52 Xi's Taiwan attack timeline grows shorter by the day.
November 2022 Republicans will retake the house and senate. This will constrain Biden's directors and have heavy influence on the focus of our military.

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 11:33 AM (/FocL)

53 >what's the term for being unable to remember Gell-Mann amnesia?
Posted by: Buzzsaw90

I forget...

Posted by: DB- just DB at June 20, 2021 11:34 AM (iTXRQ)

54 I'm less concerned with China than with us. Let's have that coup here.

Posted by: Ordinary American at June 20, 2021 11:34 AM (y5KHQ)

55 It's a small thing, but it is something they are doing.
Posted by: Vyx at June 20, 2021 11:32 AM (tjZg/)]

Senior comrade citizen, there seems to be a significant problem with your social security paperwork and until we can analyze and determine in how many many ways you are criminally wrong, it is only prudent of us to cease issuing your monthly SS check!

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar ~ Lay back and think of the sweet graft! ~ at June 20, 2021 11:35 AM (hOUT3)

56 Duke Lowell

How is Sandra? There is an unfinished story.

Regardless of the events, prayers ascending for you and yours.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:36 AM (u82oZ)

57

With ten you get egg roll.

And I get 10%.

Posted by: Joey Xiden at June 20, 2021 11:36 AM (Flll0)

58 >>>what's the term for being unable to remember Gell-Mann amnesia?<
>Jim Crow

Posted by: Dr. Bone at June 20, 2021 11:37 AM (HnNKD)

59 Commissar Hrothgar ~ Lay back and think of the sweet graft! ~

*Respectful tip of the hat.*

Less than a week to our meeting!

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:37 AM (u82oZ)

60 This will constrain Biden's directors and have heavy influence on the focus of our military.

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 11:33 AM (/FocL)

Heh

Posted by: GOPe at June 20, 2021 11:38 AM (fi2aF)

61 52 November 2022 Republicans will retake the house and senate.

Hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha

Now pull the other one!

Posted by: Joey Xiden at June 20, 2021 11:38 AM (Flll0)

62 51 untimely static = ultimately static.

Those responsible have been sacked.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:39 AM (u82oZ)

63 Meh on the idea of communism, or fascism, or socialiam, or right vs left...just a shell game and a misinformation campaign. There have only really ever been two human systems that conflict...a small group ruling the masses by some sort of force whether physical or economical or a combination of both vs. the government being selected and controlled by the people, and paganism vs. Godliness. Paganism is generally connected to the small group rule, especially in the recentish era.

Posted by: azjaeger at June 20, 2021 11:39 AM (3/XaG)

64 >>>>>>it is only prudent of us to cease issuing your monthly SS check!
Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar ~ Lay back and think of the sweet graft! ~ at June 20, 2021 11:35 AM (hOUT3)
-------------

That would be one of the straws.
That would light up a group of reactive people.

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 11:39 AM (/FocL)

65 "Of course the conditions for its fall were created by a B list actor, an electrician in the Lenin Shipyard in Gdansk, and a Polish priest in Rome."

Don't forget the chemist in England!

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at June 20, 2021 11:39 AM (oibCn)

66 NaCly, my good man, I am looking forward to that.
And now you have assigned another book to read I see!
I wonder if it aligns well with Hrothgar's Inverted Pyramid Theory of Civilization!

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar ~ Lay back and think of the sweet graft! ~ at June 20, 2021 11:39 AM (hOUT3)

67 @34
Amen brother.
Morality being the basis of all light and knowledge can only be perverted by the wiles of Satan and his minions.

Posted by: AceOfPhrase at June 20, 2021 11:40 AM (8iyB1)

68 I am discouraged today. Sorry, don't want to bring anyone down.

I'm a loner by nature and don't venture into shared culture much. When I do, I see a large disconnect from my values, not my actions, and the values of most values i see displayed.

Of course, being introspective, I examine my life to see if it is consistent with my values.

To the best of my understanding, I have Judeo Christian values. I don't see that in our culture.

Perhaps I am just projecting, I am discouraged by my failures.

Posted by: AmericanKestrel at June 20, 2021 11:40 AM (IDhUW)

69 ...to cease issuing your monthly SS check!

*****

That will be the signal to unleash the wrath of the Rascal-Riding Retired Rangers! Huzzah!!

When a man has nothing left to lose but his dentures...

Posted by: Muldoon at June 20, 2021 11:40 AM (Fc5rx)

70 52 Braenyard, orthodox conservative

Perchance can you name a drug responsible for this analysis?

know a clean election would do all that you state. How do we get from Communist / Kleptocracy coup to clean elections?

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:41 AM (u82oZ)

71 Perhaps I am just projecting, I am discouraged by my failures.
Posted by: AmericanKestrel

*****

In all seriousness: Endeavour to persevere!

Posted by: Muldoon at June 20, 2021 11:41 AM (Fc5rx)

72 Muldoon

Good one. But I thought a stolen election was a strong Red Line that would bring a corrective response. I was wrong.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:42 AM (u82oZ)

73 Posted by: GOPe at June 20, 2021 11:38 AM (fi2aF)
-------------

Upon review and consultation we must advise you to gather to your family and get your affairs in order.

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 11:42 AM (/FocL)

74 Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:41 AM (u82oZ)

The rot is so deep the rot has rot!

Done for a while!

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar ~ Lay back and think of the sweet graft! ~ at June 20, 2021 11:43 AM (hOUT3)

75 AmericanKestrel

And yet you are kind, caring, and a valued commentator.

You should hear TeeJ talk of you. In tones of awe.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:43 AM (u82oZ)

76
Alas our own corrupt and oppressive govt:
https://tinyurl.com/yc9f8s5d
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 20, 2021 11:33

++++

Yes, this paints Barr in a bad light, but he gave this great gig, working an hour a day in Tahiti, catching some rays, saving the republic. It's all good.

Posted by: John Dorham at June 20, 2021 11:44 AM (HCeRP)

77 Attacking Taiwan is unlikely to be any kind of priority for Beijing. Taiwan doesn't threaten China's system at all, in fact it's the major prop (biggest investor).

And it's the stand-by cause for whipping up/directing the primitive truculent nationalism of the population, when the regime finds that useful.

Hong Kong was a minor annoyance, and much more of an "ideological" challenge to the system.

That's been taken care of.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 20, 2021 11:45 AM (OTzUX)

78 Commissar Hrothgar ~ Lay back and think of the sweet graft!

Nay. No reading needed. I condensed the entire book in post 51. He had good analysis, shows how other ideas put forth are rubbish, but his conclusion on mechanisms of collapse is as stated.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:45 AM (u82oZ)

79 68 American Kestrel, prayers up.

Posted by: callsign claymore at June 20, 2021 11:46 AM (JIeFL)

80 We all want to believe that in the natural state of humanity is the desire to to be free, to manage our affairs without interference."

I have come to believe that this is only seriously true for about 10 to 20% of humanity at any given time. Another 20 to 30 percent kind of like the idea, but they're also fine with being able to tell their neighbors what to do. And a full half prefer slavery to freedom - choices terrify them, and they want a world where they are provided for and always told what to do.

Posted by: Tom Servo at June 20, 2021 11:46 AM (rfYv5)

81 >>>know a clean election would do all that you state. How do we get from Communist / Kleptocracy coup to clean elections?
Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:41 AM (u82oZ)
---------------

It is happening as we speak; AZ is pressing for even more review and making headway, the same in GA, PA, and NH. I think MI there may also be a chance.

Just because it's not being reported doesn't mean it's not happening.

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 11:46 AM (/FocL)

82 arasites who support them do not and only pay lip service when they need your vote or your money.
~~~
I think if we had honest elections, the repukes would not, I repeat, not, win the next midterms.

By saying that, I guess I channel my inner optimist, because I am saying most people see thru their fraud and want something more in line with their values.

Posted by: AmericanKestrel at June 20, 2021 11:47 AM (IDhUW)

83 How is Sandra? There is an unfinished story.

Regardless of the events, prayers ascending for you and yours.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:36 AM (u82oZ)

------------

She's doing ok today, thanks for asking. As suddenly as the bleeding started, it stopped. We have the doc coming over tomorrow.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 20, 2021 11:47 AM (kTF2Z)

84 runner

Taiwan was run by Japan until the end of WWII. They had the biggest colonial cultural influence on the Island.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:47 AM (u82oZ)

85 A few quick takes, Re China and a coup, we will be the last to know about it. The state control apparatus is like all such mechanisms based on humans, it tends to obscure information more to outsiders than insiders and coups specifically are by insiders. No one in the West predicted Solidarity either.

China's rise is not inevitable and China has hidden its weaknesses such as debt loads, massive corruption, COVID implications, military weaknesses, and perhaps even regime legitimacy among the populace.

Regarding the US, a) we are not Chinese culturally or historically nor are we Russians, Romans, British, etc. but a hybrid culture. Historically, we resemble the Hapburg Empire as much as we do Rome but we have the advantage of much more defensible borders from direct invasion.

Posted by: whig at June 20, 2021 11:49 AM (pO7gM)

86 It is happening as we speak; AZ is pressing for even
more review and making headway, the same in GA, PA, and NH. I think MI
there may also be a chance.

Just because it's not being reported doesn't mean it's not happening.

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 11:46 AM (/FocL)

I appreciate your optimism, and yes, it can go the way you are predicting. Just be careful of too much enthusiasm. It is the wont of some around here to mock and denigrate optimistic projections. It is the least attractive of The Horde's tendencies...

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 20, 2021 11:49 AM (Q9lwr)

87 Braenyard, orthodox conservative

Muldoon says it best. Endeavor to persevere!

We are the current underneath all the froth. And the failures of the Left in all areas help the pragmatic Constitutionalist.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:51 AM (u82oZ)

88 Duke that's great

Posted by: Skip at June 20, 2021 11:51 AM (Cxk7w)

89 80 We all want to believe that in the natural state of humanity is the desire to to be free, to manage our affairs without interference."
...
Posted by: Tom Servo at June 20, 2021 11:46 AM (rfYv5)
------------

We are all products of our environment.
The Chinese can't conceive living in a free republic, it would be perceived as bizarre and untenable just as President Trump, a free and true American male, scares millennials and others who have become divorced from the essence of America.

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 11:51 AM (/FocL)

90 Yes NaCly, I almost commented on that - Taiwan's historic background, which was not as a mainstream part of China, and then the modern period of Japanese colonialism. Followed by it's "nationalist"/anti-commie post-WWII period. Taiwan is the focus of primitive Chinese nationalist irredentism on the mainland, but is not really a "break-away" place, historically. Was never integrated into China the way all of the mainland has always been.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 20, 2021 11:51 AM (OTzUX)

91 The Collapse of Complex Societies by Joseph Tainter, (1988 ) proposes the primary mechanism of collapse is The Law of Diminishing Returns. Gulp. We are there.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:33 AM (u82oZ)

I agree with naturalfake above - it'll take some huge Black Swan event to trigger a collapse.

Posted by: Tom Servo at June 20, 2021 11:51 AM (rfYv5)

92 It is the least attractive of The Horde
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

And here I thought that was me.
*Sulks*

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:52 AM (u82oZ)

93 "when the Chinese people know the truth, they will be outraged to learn the lies they have been fed,"

Does that ever really happen, historically? Where people rise up to fight against lies? Our nation is soaking in filthy compulsory lies, and most people seem fine with it.

People fight _for_ lies as often as they fight against them, AFAIK.

Posted by: Mentholated Smooth-Drawing gp at June 20, 2021 11:52 AM (qpX6U)

94 Thank you callsign. I appreciate it more than you can know.

Salty, Muldoon, thank you as well.

This web space is a good place. Now I must go to the real world.

Posted by: AmericanKestrel at June 20, 2021 11:53 AM (IDhUW)

95 Duke Lowell

Huzzah!

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:53 AM (u82oZ)

96 It is the least attractive of The Horde's tendencies...
I would have thought it to be the lack of pants.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 20, 2021 11:53 AM (r+sAi)

97 I have come to believe that this is only seriously true for about 10 to 20% of humanity at any given time.

Posted by: Tom Servo at June 20, 2021 11:46 AM (rfYv5)

Tangentially, this is the biggest failing of the conservative movement in America. The assumption that conservative behavior is the default is catastrophically wrong. People may have these values embedded in them, but it must be nurtured. Many of us can cite philosophers or economists or even excellent teacher as some of our guides. How many of us can look at the Republican Party or Conservative Inc. as our guides?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 20, 2021 11:53 AM (Q9lwr)

98 They can see the problems, the deep-seated, long-standing problems in China, caused by the system of totalitarian dictatorship, which they have. They understand those problems better than the people in the outside world do.
They can see better than most people can see, that this regime is outwardly strong, but inwardly weak. And that it's in a state of political decay. And that their best hope for preserving their own wealth and power, as well as the best hope for China, is to lead a coup d'etat to remove Xi Jinping and to launch China into a democratic transition.

This right here is the problem of the western political class nicely summed up. They don't actually have solutions, so they put together a pretty-sounding theory about how whatever problem will magically solve itself thanks to "markets", "internal tensions", "international pressure", or "self-interest." Too often, this isn't the case, or the solution ends up creating new problems that are worse.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at June 20, 2021 11:54 AM (jOcSX)

99 Man who leap off cliff jump to conclusion

Posted by: Confucius at June 20, 2021 11:54 AM (DMUuz)

100 I would have thought it to be the lack of pants.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 20, 2021 11:53 AM (r+sAi)

No...that's a good thing!

Posted by: The Otters at June 20, 2021 11:54 AM (Q9lwr)

101 It is the least attractive of The Horde's tendencies...

*****

Worse even than the rampant affinity for fart jokes.

Posted by: Muldoon at June 20, 2021 11:55 AM (Fc5rx)

102 We are what we think we are in as much as the boxer who enters the ring. If the boxer who enters the ring thinks his adversary superior, if he thinks he will loose, he will loose.

We cannot win this battle with the attitude of a looser.

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 11:55 AM (/FocL)

103 . It is the wont of some around here to mock and denigrate optimistic projections."

oh come on, who would mock pie in the sky in the sweet bye and bye?

Posted by: Tom Servo at June 20, 2021 11:55 AM (rfYv5)

104 Good one. But I thought a stolen election was a strong Red Line that would bring a corrective response. I was wrong.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 11:42 AM (u82oZ)

Funny - as people who frequent this place will know, I can be kind of repetitive.

So back in 2010 or so I wanted so badly to share what I could see. And I took a reasonable amount of flak for my "theory". It went like this.

"Obama isn't going to cancel any elections - but IF HE DID, absolutely nothing would happen."

A lot of us refused to believe this. It went against the grain. They thought it was impossible, that he could never "get away" with it. I could see they controlled too much.

Posted by: ... at June 20, 2021 11:55 AM (uEbPt)

105 To the best of my understanding, I have Judeo Christian values. I don't see that in our culture.

Perhaps I am just projecting, I am discouraged by my failures.
Posted by: AmericanKestrel

AK, please don't be. We all have a litany of failures - some of them, gigantic. We each are human after all.

I do see how one can view our culture as lacking good, moral values. I feel it myself oft times. But what works for me to surround myself, as best as I can, with those that share my views of Western Civ and the resultant Christian/Judeo paths.

I won't play in the larger broken culture's yard if I can help it. It makes for a happier Tonypete.

Posted by: Tonypete at June 20, 2021 11:55 AM (Rvt88)

106 Does that ever really happen, historically? Where people rise up to
fight against lies? Our nation is soaking in filthy compulsory lies,
and most people seem fine with it.

Folks who lead revolutions like to pretend they're based on principle, but the bulk of the angry mob is just that-mad as hell and not going to take it any more.

Posted by: Methos at June 20, 2021 11:56 AM (kOpft)

107 Worse even than the rampant affinity for fart jokes.
Posted by: Muldoon

Indeed. Some of them just stink.

Posted by: Tonypete at June 20, 2021 11:56 AM (Rvt88)

108 Stay loose.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 20, 2021 11:56 AM (r+sAi)

109 Worse even than the rampant affinity for fart jokes.
Posted by: Muldoon at June 20, 2021 11:55 AM

Man who emit flatulence in church sit in own pew.

Posted by: Confucius at June 20, 2021 11:57 AM (DMUuz)

110 Fight or flight.

Just because the danger isn't immediate like a crazed gunman does not mean the danger of authoritarianism isn't subject to the same responses.

Many will try to run and hide from government oppression in America, only a few will fight.

But in the end we will either win or we will die, even those that run and hide.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at June 20, 2021 11:58 AM (adRIw)

111 Worse even than the rampant affinity for fart jokes.
Posted by: Muldoon

Awfully rancid subject, dontchathink?

Posted by: Somewhere South of I-80 at June 20, 2021 11:58 AM (weGKL)

112 I'd be happy for any unrest in Chynah. Anything to distract and keep their slimy paws off of (what's left of) my country.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at June 20, 2021 11:59 AM (7Fj9P)

113 Our leftists have no desire to be free. They are classic anarchists....they want a jungle they can hunt in.

Posted by: torabora at June 20, 2021 12:00 PM (Y274z)

114 ...

There are a number of Cassandra's in the Horde.

Yet, I am amazed at how wonderful we are as a group. We lead by example. Tonypete is right, as most here have a litany of failures - some of them, gigantic. But we balance that with élan and striving.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 12:00 PM (u82oZ)

115
Why would the Chinese embrace liberal democracy when we're hell-bent on obliterating it?

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 20, 2021 12:00 PM (mht8P)

116 93 Mentholated,
The key for regime stability is the maintenance of regime support by the upper and middle classes of society, it is from there that the malcontents of a current regime exist.

Just as in the US, the purveyors of CRT, etc. are those on the outside looking in and largely from the educated classes. Such intellectual fads are usually a product of frustrated ambitions for power that are locked out of the current power structure. The usual response by the in group in power is to allow the radicals in via co-opting them which is why you see the deep state institutions try to neutralize them via financial bounty and limited power. AOC and her 'radical' teammates in the House is a perfect example.

True revolutionaries are seldom working politicians and they have the more difficult task of creating an alternative power structure outside of the existing institutions that garners enough popular support to topple the existing regime. That is why most revolutions fail.

Posted by: whig at June 20, 2021 12:01 PM (pO7gM)

117
If you can smell a fart you could be inhaling Kung Flu.

Posted by: torabora at June 20, 2021 12:01 PM (Y274z)

118 The Chinese people, and much of the rest of that part of the world, seem to me to have a general affinity for hive mind type society and communal systems. There were basically communist societies there long before Marx or Mao, granted on much smaller levels. I think communism may be more sustainable there.

Posted by: B Moe at June 20, 2021 12:01 PM (TteTU)

119 "Folks who lead revolutions like to pretend they're based on principle, but the bulk of the angry mob is just that-mad as hell and not going to take it any more."

Does the average Chinese citizen have things to get mad about? AFAIK, their standard of living is steadily improving. We gripe a lot about cheap flimsy Chinese products, but they make a lot of good stuff over there too, and a lot of it seems to be stuff we can't make ourselves anymore. They aren't constantly harangued by their elites about how evil and racist they and their history are.

I don't know if they still do the Maoist indoctrination and mindfuck stuff anymore. I doubt you can safely speak up against the regime, but is there a plurality there who wants to oppose the leadership?

Posted by: Mentholated Smooth-Drawing gp at June 20, 2021 12:02 PM (qpX6U)

120 How (or even 'would') Tiananmen Square be covered by today's media?

You have to wonder if it wouldn't have been blacked out or even spun by the media to favor China.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at June 20, 2021 12:02 PM (adRIw)

121 Welp, chores call me again.

Please remain classically American in spirit. At least off of Facebook.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 12:02 PM (u82oZ)

122 >>> To the best of my understanding, I have Judeo Christian values. I don't see that in our culture.

Perhaps I am just projecting, I am discouraged by my failures.
Posted by: AmericanKestrel at June 20, 2021 11:40 AM (IDhUW)

One of the greatest perceived advantages that the enemies of good have is that their enemies are good. How could they pick a better adversary? Our passions they see as weakness. They find no value in what we desire.

And we are often silent and our numbers are hidden. Are we an unstoppable horde? Not in this world, but I think the silence needs to change. I know I often equate loudness in public display with pride and boasting. And I'm naturally the world's biggest introvert. But I think it's time to set my spirit alight for others to see.

Posted by: banana Dream at June 20, 2021 12:03 PM (xD3gY)

123 I believe that a coup is coming, but in the US and not by good guys.
What we will find out, too late to do anything about it, is that Biden is a Quisling in the pay of either China or Russia, maybe both, and is keeping our military unready so that they can do whatever they want to Taiwan and Ukraine.

Posted by: jdgalt at June 20, 2021 12:03 PM (3SFo/)

124 It is the wont of some around here to mock and denigrate optimistic projections.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 20, 2021 11:49 AM

Sometimes I feel like the poster child of being mocked around here.

Posted by: Felix Steiner at June 20, 2021 12:03 PM (DMUuz)

125 The reason China isn't going to implode the same way the Soviet Union did is because unlike Russia, we didn't oppose China's economy.

No, we propped it up, then gave away our manufacturing to them, effectively making China's fall impossible, unless we wanted to commit economic suicide ourselves.

In other words, China's "success" is not China's, but instead the American oligarchs committing a massive con on the American people, so they could enrich themselves.

And they have.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 20, 2021 12:03 PM (AIH1c)

126 Tangentially, this is the biggest failing of the conservative movement in America. The assumption that conservative behavior is the default is catastrophically wrong. People may have these values embedded in them, but it must be nurtured. Many of us can cite philosophers or economists or even excellent teacher as some of our guides. How many of us can look at the Republican Party or Conservative Inc. as our guides?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 20, 2021 11:53 AM (Q9lwr)

I think people are conservative individually but when it comes to voting and larger society they like the pie in the sky crap. Conservatism means understanding certain basic truths. That giving a man a hundred dollars doesn't help as much as giving him the opportunity to make hundreds of dollars.

The leftist understanding of the world is very childish and therefore it's the easy thing to flow with. Hence keeping much of the populace uneducated and unable to think for themselves. People will always default to easy.

Posted by: ... at June 20, 2021 12:03 PM (uEbPt)

127 But I thought a stolen election was a strong Red Line that would bring a corrective response. I was wrong.
Posted by: NaCly Dog

*****

I have no crystal ball or future insights.

Ironically the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back" may turn out to be some very small, seemingly unlikely or insignificant thing, but in the end may only leave one with a camel that has a broken back.

Posted by: Muldoon at June 20, 2021 12:03 PM (Fc5rx)

128 The polls show that Americans like being slaves.

Posted by: Juan Williams' bulging eyeballs at June 20, 2021 12:04 PM (63Dwl)

129 The crack seen around the world was not the I40 bridge....it was Hunter Biden.

Posted by: torabora at June 20, 2021 12:05 PM (Y274z)

130 123 China just as easy could go back to Mao

Posted by: Skip at June 20, 2021 12:05 PM (Cxk7w)

131 The Chinese people, and much of the rest of that part of the world, seem to me to have a general affinity for hive mind type society and communal systems. There were basically communist societies there long before Marx or Mao, granted on much smaller levels. I think communism may be more sustainable there.

Posted by: B Moe at June 20, 2021 12:01 PM (TteTU)

This is true. Look at the way they do things when they are here. A family pools its resources together and will all live and work together.

Posted by: ... at June 20, 2021 12:05 PM (uEbPt)

132 Only an ivory tower academic would believe such nonsense. The Soviet system was obviously decrepit and non functioning. The same cannot be said of the Chinese system.

Gordon Chang says much the same thing, and he is smart, but wrong.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at June 20, 2021 12:05 PM (4BMGG)

133 When the going gets easy, I hit my crack pipe.

Posted by: Hunter Biden, Crack Artist at June 20, 2021 12:07 PM (Y274z)

134 This is true. Look at the way they do things when they are here. A family pools its resources together and will all live and work together.
Posted by: ... at June 20, 2021 12:05 PM (uEbPt)

The Italians do it with more style!

Posted by: Tom Servo at June 20, 2021 12:07 PM (rfYv5)

135 China is teetering, but if there is a coup it will only be after a collapse has already taken place. . .the decapitation of a snake that has already flattened by a truck. They simply cannot withstand the demographic impacts of the years of the One Child policy combined with Xi's own ego.

Posted by: Bert G at June 20, 2021 12:07 PM (nLknX)

136 I see everyday the SJW types "fighting" for their rights, or the power or some injustice they think bedevils them, like they are some kind of revolutionary at the barricades.

The only injustices, denying of rights and power that holds anyone back comes from washington d.c.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 20, 2021 12:08 PM (R/m4+)

137 To the best of my understanding, I have Judeo Christian values. I don't see that in our culture.

Well that's par for the course.

If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at June 20, 2021 12:08 PM (adRIw)

138 "It is the wont of some around here to mock and denigrate optimistic projections. "

It's the corrosivity of low expectations.

Posted by: f'd at June 20, 2021 12:08 PM (Tnijr)

139 in the 80s the USA activly opposed the USSR

today the USA 'leaders' activly embraces Communist China (see Tom Freidmans China fan boi articles and Joe Bidens kids business dealings)

can you immagin Reagans kids doing business with the USSR??

Posted by: will choose a nic later at June 20, 2021 12:09 PM (bTQ72)

140 The Mao Dynasty is just the latest in a long and unbroken line of totalitarian regimes in that region, and social collectivism is so deeply embedded in the culture that no amount of goody-good Western wishcasting will make it go away. If Comrade Winnie gets ditched he'll just be replaced by some other strongman, and a few (tens of) million peasants will get kilt in the process. This happens every 3-4 generations, historically speaking, so they *are* due for an ultraviolent rebellion.

But stratagem and the concept of 'face' are equally ingrained, so the powers that be will maintain the illusion of being thisclose to liberal democracy as long as it keeps foreigners in the habit of giving them stuff. Once the outsiders have nothing more to offer, you'll get to see the fastest transition back to explicit feudalism in recorded history.

Posted by: CppThis at June 20, 2021 12:11 PM (8h1h1)

141
Warlords! China needs warlords! They've been thin on the ground for the last 70 years.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 20, 2021 12:11 PM (mht8P)

142 San Franpsycho's got it right. Epoch Times and Chang are the good guys, but this kind of stuff is just wish-casting. It actually has the forlorn, wistful sort of tone to it that is appropriate to such stuff.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 20, 2021 12:11 PM (OTzUX)

143 Yet, I am amazed at how wonderful we are as a group. We lead by example. Tonypete is right, as most here have a litany of failures - some of them, gigantic. But we balance that with �lan and striving.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 20, 2021 12:00 PM (u82oZ)

I'm actually often amazed when I search back and find a lot of people with the same observations as me. And more prescient ones.

I don't read every comment by any stretch - but when you search the archives you find a ton of incredible wisdom here.

Posted by: ... at June 20, 2021 12:13 PM (uEbPt)

144 Bert G they have recently changed that 1 baby rule, and seems was broken often anyway.
But otherwise hope your right andI am wrong.

Posted by: Skip at June 20, 2021 12:14 PM (Cxk7w)

145 A lot of the elites (not at the Bezos level) are about to get screwed over by Biden leftist economic policies in the next few years. Like never before.

$6 Triilion budget request?! On top of the rest?

I expect that will cause a major impact on a lot of elites, not to say us rubes. The cumulative damage to the IS economy may be the tipping point.

Posted by: John Dorham at June 20, 2021 12:14 PM (HCeRP)

146 136 HB Guy,
And if you looked at those particular protesters backgrounds, you would find that most of them come from relatively advantages backgrounds.

Simply put, they are trying to gain power and financial advantage outside of the system and the system will likely try to co-opt them via financial and giving some functionary jobs in governments or non-profits. Most political movements grant little actual power and money to the victims that they champion.

Posted by: whig at June 20, 2021 12:15 PM (pO7gM)

147 IS = US

Posted by: JM in Florida at June 20, 2021 12:15 PM (HCeRP)

148 BurtTC - I think you've hit it there with your theory. If the US opposed their economy maybe it would have a destabilizing effect.

Also re the mocking optimistic viewpoints - I totally hoped in Jackstraw's analysis and definately wanted to believe. I was crushed when his predictions never came true.

Someone commented the other day about how the state audits of the voting could lead to arrests for treason which would be handled by the military - and, of course, I would dearly love for some justice for the election (and other) crimes, but I thought "JackStraw is that you?" Because sadly, while I might still secretly hope, I'm more realistic and cynical now.

Not sure how we're going to get out of this mess but it ain't going to be someone in the government.

Posted by: Iris at June 20, 2021 12:15 PM (6lKe4)

149 Most political movements grant little actual power and money to the victims that they champion.
Posted by: whig at June 20, 2021 12:15 PM (pO7gM)

Excellent point.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 20, 2021 12:15 PM (R/m4+)

150 Bert G they have recently changed that 1 baby rule, and seems was broken often anyway.

Posted by: Skip at June 20, 2021 12:14 PM

Yes, they have but it's too little, too late. Because for generations there weren't enough females being allowed to be born or live China is in a worse population replacement crunch than anywhere else, including Japan. They're going really start feeling the effects in the next 15-20 years.

Posted by: Bert G at June 20, 2021 12:17 PM (nLknX)

151
$6 Triilion budget request?! On top of the rest?

-------------

Oh, there's plenty of money around, to hear the Democrats say it. They're just working on ways to get their hands on it.
At which point, their illusions will go up in smoke.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 20, 2021 12:17 PM (mht8P)

152 Well the upside of Hunter Biden doing business with Chi nah is that Hunter is crack smoking pervert.

That says a lot about Chi nah business acumen.

Posted by: torabora at June 20, 2021 12:18 PM (RTe1p)

153 I was really rooting for the 3 Gorges damn to collapse last year. Not b/c of the immediate death toll, or the prolonged, agonizing death by famine. I was rooting for the complete destabilization of Chynah.
Also, the arrogance of building that damn in the first place should not go unpunished.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at June 20, 2021 12:18 PM (7Fj9P)

154 Worse even than the rampant affinity for fart jokes.

Posted by: Muldoon

Awfully rancid subject, dontchathink?

Posted by: Somewhere South of I-80

I don't know, I think those jokes are a gas,

Posted by: Methos at June 20, 2021 12:18 PM (kOpft)

155 139 Ronnie Jr, and his sister Patti Davis, I can see doing biz with the Russians (or Chinese today) based on their public comments.

Only conservative in that family other than RR himself apparently was adopted Michael Reagan. Nancy was apparently more concerned with supporting her husband than any ideological position. Dunno about Reagan's first wife.

Posted by: whig at June 20, 2021 12:18 PM (pO7gM)

156 135 China is teetering, but if there is a coup it will only be after a collapse has already taken place. . .the decapitation of a snake that has already flattened by a truck. They simply cannot withstand the demographic impacts of the years of the One Child policy combined with Xi's own ego.
Posted by: Bert G at June 20, 2021 12:07 PM (nLknX)

Oi, someone mentioned historical precedent? I've got a better and, ahem, classically interesting population control option than all that one child silliness.

Just sayin', dawg.

Posted by: An Lushan at June 20, 2021 12:18 PM (8h1h1)

157
Also, the arrogance of building that damn in the first place should not go unpunished.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at June 20, 2021 12:18 PM (7Fj9P)

------------

Hear tell the Flex Seal guy made a killing last year.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 20, 2021 12:19 PM (mht8P)

158 Someone commented the other day about how the state audits of the voting could lead to arrests for treason which would be handled by the military

Not sure how we're going to get out of this mess but it ain't going to be someone in the government.
Posted by: Iris at June 20, 2021 12:15 PM (6lKe4)

Possible arrests by the military is why they are now doing the SJW BLM Purge. They KNOW what they did, and want control of the US Military when it does finally come out.

Same with FBI and Local Cops... they are literally destroying any Governmental Response that would be possible to the Deep State / Big Corp takeover of the US.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 20, 2021 12:19 PM (oHd/0)

159 134 This is true. Look at the way they do things when they are here. A family pools its resources together and will all live and work together.
Posted by: ... at June 20, 2021 12:05 PM (uEbPt)
------------------

Knew a family that owned a small convenience store.
They all worked the store, lived in the store, and slept in the back on the floor.

When the children graduated high school they attended and graduated from the best colleges.
They the parents still work the store;, however, they now live uptown.

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 12:20 PM (/FocL)

160 Democrats will spend until interest rates blip up. They can't go down.

Then inflation covers the gap until war breaks out. No way any scenario can paper over $30 trillion.

I knew we were in trouble when the first trillion was passed.

Posted by: torabora at June 20, 2021 12:21 PM (RTe1p)

161 Posted by: An Lushan at June 20, 2021 12:18 PM (8h1h1)

Almost all revolutions in history were preceded by a large rise in food prices, either through inflation or a bad harvest / drought.

China knows this, and imports TONS of food from the US... even as their faming industry fails.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 20, 2021 12:21 PM (oHd/0)

162 To be fair I think most opinions of any kind around here attract thumps on the nose.

For one people are naturally more tempted to respond when they disagree even slightly with something.

Whereas when you agree with someone, it's only tempting to respond when it's full-throated agreement. I'm speaking in general terms here. Disagreement is also more interesting. Wouldn't be much of a forum - or a point - without it. Other than {cough cough} organizing.

Posted by: ... at June 20, 2021 12:22 PM (uEbPt)

163 #150

Is Chi nah going gay?
Woke army?

Posted by: torabora at June 20, 2021 12:23 PM (RTe1p)

164 If you can smell a fart you could be inhaling Kung Flu.

Posted by: torabora at June 20, 2021 12:01 PM (Y274z)

Don't inhale Kung Flu if you are allergic to Kung Flu.

Posted by: ... at June 20, 2021 12:24 PM (uEbPt)

165
There is a lot of internal strife inside Red China that is censored.

A lot of people are frustrated by the all-seeing police state and at some point it will boil over.

Look up "knife attacks" "China" on YouTube.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 20, 2021 12:24 PM (s2VJv)

166 At least the next China guy that murders millions will have a good education to fall back on.

Posted by: klaftern at June 20, 2021 12:24 PM (r4sI4)

167 General Tso, in the kitchen with chicken.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 20, 2021 12:25 PM (vuisn)

168 158 Someone commented the other day about how the state audits of the voting could lead to arrests for treason which would be handled by the military

Not sure how we're going to get out of this mess but it ain't going to be someone in the government.
Posted by: Iris at June 20, 2021 12:15 PM (6lKe4)

Possible arrests by the military is why they are now doing the SJW BLM Purge. They KNOW what they did, and want control of the US Military when it does finally come out.

Same with FBI and Local Cops... they are literally destroying any Governmental Response that would be possible to the Deep State / Big Corp takeover of the US.
Posted by: Romeo13 at June 20, 2021 12:19 PM (oHd/0)

The time to actually make a ripple was in the days immediately after the election. We ( Trump voters) did not just show up in the streets en masse...not to be violent or wage a physical war, but just to show up to demonstrate our numbers. I do not know what we were waiting for, but the left quickly sized us up and realized that we would not put up any kind of fight.

By the time January 6th rolled around, it was too late; the FBI infiltrated and the set-up was already in place.

Posted by: RondinellaMamma Donald J. Trump is our duly elected president at June 20, 2021 12:26 PM (8/7u2)

169 could it be that russian communists were white and china communists are not white be driving part of this?

white mans burden or some such?

Posted by: will choose a nic later at June 20, 2021 12:26 PM (bTQ72)

170 At least the next China guy that murders millions will have a good education to fall back on.
============================
You're welcome.

Posted by: Washington University in St. Louis at June 20, 2021 12:26 PM (7Fj9P)

171
Posted by: whig at June 20, 2021 12:18 PM (pO7gM)
------------

She was responsible/took advantage of Reagan's diminishing capacities to advance the Brady bill.

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 12:27 PM (/FocL)

172 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 20, 2021 12:24 PM (s2VJv)

Happy Birthday J.J.!!!! Thanks for being the best Morning Show this side of 80's Stern.

Posted by: ... at June 20, 2021 12:28 PM (uEbPt)

173 General Tso, in the kitchen with chicken.
Posted by: Dr. Varno

I've often thought it interesting that there's a board game that is built around who the murderer is, what the weapon is and where the murder took place.

No odder than being so filthy well off the we can take food and make a toy out of it. (Mr. Potato Head) "Quit playing with your food!!" - Isn't that the point Mom?

Posted by: Tonypete at June 20, 2021 12:29 PM (Rvt88)

174 I do not know what we were waiting for, but the left quickly sized us up and realized that we would not put up any kind of fight.
=======================
I'll cop to this: I actually had a level of faith in Rudy, Sydney and what's-his-fake-cowboy-ass, Wood. yeah, they fished me in. They were probably useful idiots for the left at the end of the day.
So I'm an idiot.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at June 20, 2021 12:29 PM (7Fj9P)

175 A lot of people are frustrated by the all-seeing police state and at some point it will boil over.

I don't know a precise number but I would guess if 1% of any nation's populace was motivated to violently oppose the government, it wouldn't matter how much of a tech edge the government side has as they would simply lack the manpower to process the problem in any orderly way.

Posted by: Methos at June 20, 2021 12:30 PM (kOpft)

176 148 Iris,
One of the major advantages of a hybrid system (and disadvantages as well) is the compound nature of the federal republic. It deliberately frustrates sweeping change of the system for better or worse unless it has overwhelming public support.

Notice that it is the local state Senate of Arizona that is moving forward with the audit. In Fulton County of GA, it is outsiders, not government officials, using the state court system to force accountability of local and state election officials. What happens next as a consequence of these audits is something that everyone in the US will have a part in how to interpret.

Unitary systems have a more direct relationship with localities with seldom any intervening level of government in between aka federalism. As a result, the ability of the national government to go too far becomes more possible provoking civil unrest unless the state is small and homogeneous.

Posted by: whig at June 20, 2021 12:30 PM (pO7gM)

177 Knew a family that owned a small convenience store.
They all worked the store, lived in the store, and slept in the back on the floor.

When the children graduated high school they attended and graduated from the best colleges.
They the parents still work the store;, however, they now live uptown.
Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 12:20 PM (/FocL)

Let's see, pool resources, have a strong family, have regard for education, defer gratification, obey the law, work hard.

Boy, those Chinese sure are lucky to be white-adjacent.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 20, 2021 12:31 PM (YqDXo)

178 Posted by: RondinellaMamma Donald J. Trump is our duly elected president at June 20, 2021 12:26 PM (8/7u2)

There was a constant 'Conservative' Media drumbeat of 'Trump and his team have this'... Constant reports of secret stuff going on that would save us...

Then Jan 6 happened, and we SAW the absolute over reaction the Feds did on that day, and continue to do.

We were played, and it worked... now? any attempt at organizing and you are an insurrectionist and traitor to the US according to our own Government.

Hell, its looking more and more like many who ORGANIZED the crap on Jan 6, worked for the FBI itself (many are not being prosecuted as unindicted coconspirators, BUT not being used as witnesses).

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 20, 2021 12:31 PM (oHd/0)

179 I don't know a precise number but I would guess if 1% of any nation's populace was motivated to violently oppose the government,
==========================
Less than 3% of the U.S. population participated in CW-I.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at June 20, 2021 12:32 PM (7Fj9P)

180 I don't know a precise number but I would guess if 1% of any nation's populace was motivated to violently oppose the government, it wouldn't matter how much of a tech edge the government side has as they would simply lack the manpower to process the problem in any orderly way.
Posted by: Methos at June 20, 2021 12:30 PM (kOpft)

Historically 3% is the magic number.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 20, 2021 12:32 PM (oHd/0)

181 see this in the side bar here at AOS, 3 below the Jordan Peterson blurb

Why hasn't this guy, who exhorted protesters to go into the Capitol and get arrested (to responses of "Nooooo...!" and accusations of "FED! FED! FED!") been indicted? He's plainly a "ringleader," pushing people who don't want to go into the Capitol to do so. And yet, he's not being indicted. Isn't that strange?

Posted by: will choose a nic later at June 20, 2021 12:32 PM (bTQ72)

182
Same with FBI and Local Cops... they are literally destroying any Governmental Response that would be possible to the Deep State / Big Corp takeover of the US.
Posted by: Romeo13 at June 20, 2021 12:19 PM (oHd/0)

^^yep, this is what is the most terrifying to me.

Posted by: Iris at June 20, 2021 12:32 PM (6lKe4)

183 Someone commented the other day about how the state audits of the voting could lead to arrests for treason which would be handled by the military - and, of course, I would dearly love for some justice for the election (and other) crimes, but I thought "JackStraw is that you?" Because sadly, while I might still secretly hope, I'm more realistic and cynical now.

Not sure how we're going to get out of this mess but it ain't going to be someone in the government.
Posted by: Iris at June 20, 2021 12:15 PM (6lKe4)

Somewhat unrelated, but at least in my mind it's related, there are people who don't like Trump, never liked Trump, but aren't leftists, and aren't nevertrumpers who talk about Trump as a "failure" without putting any context behind it. If you want to say Trump didn't accomplish much, fine, but does it NOT occur to you that having the entire establishment, both in and out of government, aligned against you, and working to undermine everything you do, doesn't that factor into your analysis of Trump's performance.

At ALL???

Posted by: BurtTC at June 20, 2021 12:33 PM (naMR+)

184
Boy, those Chinese sure are lucky to be white-adjacent.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 20, 2021 12:31 PM (YqDXo)

------------

Even after being the West Coast version of slaves.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 20, 2021 12:33 PM (mht8P)

185 Ray Epps sure looks like a cop or a FED

Posted by: will choose a nic later at June 20, 2021 12:33 PM (bTQ72)

186 Knew a family that owned a small convenience store.
They all worked the store, lived in the store, and slept in the back on the floor.

When the children graduated high school they attended and graduated from the best colleges.
They the parents still work the store;, however, they now live uptown.
Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative

There is a family of Cambodian's here that has done the same thing. Very nice people. Cheapest place to buy smokes and beer.

Posted by: Infidel at June 20, 2021 12:34 PM (dYrVA)

187 Same with FBI and Local Cops... they are literally destroying any Governmental Response that would be possible to the Deep State / Big Corp takeover of the US.
Posted by: Romeo13 at June 20, 2021 12:19 PM (oHd/0)

^^yep, this is what is the most terrifying to me.
Posted by: Iris at June 20, 2021 12:32 PM (6lKe4)

Which is why I've become Anarchist-curious. Although my preference would be for a conservative movement that decides it's high time they stopped pretending the military and police are "ours."

Posted by: BurtTC at June 20, 2021 12:35 PM (naMR+)

188 154 Worse even than the rampant affinity for fart jokes.

Posted by: Muldoon

Awfully rancid subject, dontchathink?

Posted by: Somewhere South of I-80

I don't know, I think those jokes are a gas,
Posted by: Methos at June 20, 2021 12:18 PM (kOpft)

The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind ...

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 20, 2021 12:35 PM (YqDXo)

189 First there's got to be a signal. Western media isn't broadcasting it because they are part of the problem.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 20, 2021 12:35 PM (JDZtU)

190 171 Braenyard, Nancy probably blamed firearms for her beloved Ronnie's subsequent health issues. Relatively few of the population percentage-wise are ideological in thinking. Somewhere on the order of 10-15 percent in explaining cause and effect from some generalized schema of decisionmaking.

For non-ideological types, they have outcome preferences more than specific policy preferences based on ideological concepts such as freedom or a 2nd Amendment. From what I observed on Nancy, she was relatively non-ideological in thinking and I can see her espousing Brady Bill support based on what happened to Ronnie rather than being liberal.

Posted by: whig at June 20, 2021 12:36 PM (pO7gM)

191 Had thought, then forgot, that these audits could produce indictments, but will have to be from the state authentication DOJ and FBI will not do it.

Posted by: Skip at June 20, 2021 12:36 PM (Cxk7w)

192 Posted by: BurtTC at June 20, 2021 12:35 PM (naMR+)

The defund the cop movement of the BLM?

Get rid of local cops. Crime rises. Then you have to call to the Federal Government to reign in the Chaos.

Federal Takeover of all Police functions.

That is the only logical goal UNLESS its just watching their cities burn.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 20, 2021 12:36 PM (oHd/0)

193 The time to actually make a ripple was in the days immediately after the election. We ( Trump voters) did not just show up in the streets en masse...not to be violent or wage a physical war, but just to show up to demonstrate our numbers. I do not know what we were waiting for, but the left quickly sized us up and realized that we would not put up any kind of fight.

^^^ I think "we" were still hoping the Supreme Court would back us. I think we were still looking for a way IN the system to get justice. Which of course is how the LEFT knew we wouldn't fight with violence. That is not how we instinctively act first...

Posted by: Iris at June 20, 2021 12:37 PM (6lKe4)

194 >>> does it NOT occur to you that having the entire establishment, both in and out of government, aligned against you, and working to undermine everything you do, doesn't that factor into your analysis of Trump's performance.

At ALL???
Posted by: BurtTC at June 20, 2021 12:33 PM (naMR+)
---------------------------

Great expectations.

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 12:37 PM (/FocL)

195 172 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 20, 2021 12:24 PM (s2VJv)

Happy Birthday J.J.!!!! Thanks for being the best Morning Show this side of 80's Stern.
Posted by: ... at June 20, 2021 12:28 PM (uEbPt)

I'm the best looking guy you'll never hear...

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 20, 2021 12:37 PM (s2VJv)

196 That is the only logical goal UNLESS its just watching their cities burn.
Posted by: Romeo13

To me, either of those goals are possible. The left destroys everything. It is the only thing they do, and have done, over time.

Posted by: Tonypete at June 20, 2021 12:38 PM (Rvt88)

197 On the subject of China, has anyone noticed that it is the ONLY nation or even group of people that the NeverTrumpers never support military action against? They never even talk about China, even though it is a far bigger threat than, say, Assad's Syria. It's kinda like if your wife was constantly talking about the pros and cons of every man you both knew, but somehow never talked at all about the handsome stud she worked late with every night.

Posted by: Ken at June 20, 2021 12:39 PM (ledCy)

198 Federal Takeover of all Police functions.

That is the only logical goal UNLESS its just watching their cities burn.
Posted by: Romeo13 at June 20, 2021 12:36 PM (oHd/0)

^^^I hope you are wrong but I think you have a very compelling argument there.

Posted by: Iris at June 20, 2021 12:39 PM (6lKe4)

199 Posted by: BurtTC at June 20, 2021 12:35 PM (naMR+)

The defund the cop movement of the BLM?
Get rid of local cops. Crime rises. Then you have to call to the Federal Government to reign in the Chaos.
Federal Takeover of all Police functions.
That is the only logical goal UNLESS its just watching their cities burn.
Posted by: Romeo13 at June 20, 2021 12:36 PM (oHd/0)

No, the anarchist movement is not BLM. BLM are communists.

There's a whole thing out there, for anyone interested, where the so-called serious anarchists have this all figured out. It's all too optimistic for me, but the basic argument is, if you had a private system of keeping the peace, how could it be any WORSE than leaving that job to the government?

Posted by: BurtTC at June 20, 2021 12:41 PM (naMR+)

200 Well, 1930s Europe suggests that letting private security gangs sort it out can get real ugly in the end. On the other hand, they were always angling for government power so if that gets taken off the table, who's to say what would happen.

Posted by: CppThis at June 20, 2021 12:43 PM (8h1h1)

201 I agree that China is weaker than the media and globalists would have you believe, partly due to the rampant corruption but also due to the fact that higher ups only want to hear good news. Hence, they only hear good news so they don't have a realistic view of their economic situation.

As far as a coup goes, I doubt that there will be a coup that gets rid of the Communist rulers, but I think there is a very good chance that they will get rid of Xi. He's made a lot of enemies and has also made it very clear that he is the only one in charge. If they want to appear to change things but stay in power themselves, easiest way is to blame it all on Xi and get rid of HIM.

Posted by: Art Rondelet of Malmsey at June 20, 2021 12:44 PM (fTtFy)

202 But JJ the internet can have pictures

Posted by: Skip at June 20, 2021 12:45 PM (Cxk7w)

203 in the past, no idea if this will be the future though, regimes fall when the people given guns and tasked with keeping everyone in line decide they don't want to shoot those people any more.

There are a lot of paths to that point, and a lot of paths after that point, but that is the moment when everything changes.

North Korea has done the impossible to keep things stably by making everyone everyone else's keeper, and China seems to be trying to emulate that "success" but even the DDR with a majority of the citizens working for the Stasi got to that point.

Posted by: Kindltot at June 20, 2021 12:45 PM (ySM85)

204 Even after being the West Coast version of slaves.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 20, 2021 12:33 PM (mht8P)

Yep. But white-adjacent slaves. The Chinese fled here (and to South America) to escape the Taiping Rebellion, in which ~ 20 million Chinese died. Once here, they were, as you say, the West Coast version of slaves. They were subject to Jim Crow-type laws, offered blatant racism, generally shunned, and occasionally massacred, as in LA in 1871:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_massacre_of_1871

But once the structural impediments were removed, they have thrived, and are now even better off and better educated than native-born white Americans.

So it CAN be done. See also the history of the Jews, Italians, Irish, Slavs, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Sikhs, etc. There's no excuse now for failure.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 20, 2021 12:45 PM (YqDXo)

205 if anything causes the current structure of China to fail, it will be demographics and corruption... no babies, more women than men, whole cities with no population, shoddy construction in all sorts of buildings, no such thing as OSHA (AFAIK), and, AIUI, the population of "chinese" is not monolithic, but rather fragmented, especially on the outskirts of the country. lots of internal stress faults, just waiting for a trigger. or maybe 3 gorges will fail, and do a Noah on the existing government.

Posted by: redc1c4 *OTUS Zhou Bai-Din Cheated & we all know it. at June 20, 2021 12:46 PM (makEl)

206 Diamonds are Forever Soundtrack

https://youtu.be/nnPY2USVmiA

Bad movie, but very cozy John Barry. Michael Giacchino was similar in The Incredibles.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at June 20, 2021 12:46 PM (ybIRR)

207 It's kinda like if your wife was constantly talking about the pros and cons of every man you both knew, but somehow never talked at all about the handsome stud she worked late with every night.
========================
The Paolo, how you say, works late many nights.

Posted by: The Paolo at June 20, 2021 12:47 PM (7Fj9P)

208 In other words, China's "success" is not China's, but instead the American oligarchs committing a massive con on the American people, so they could enrich themselves.

And they have.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 20, 2021 12:03 PM (AIH1c)

For now

Posted by: clutch at June 20, 2021 12:47 PM (+8+lV)

209 Steiner Chan will come.

Posted by: Getting the banned back together at June 20, 2021 12:48 PM (GGW9w)

210 As far as a coup goes, I doubt that there will be a coup that gets rid of the Communist rulers, but I think there is a very good chance that they will get rid of Xi. He's made a lot of enemies and has also made it very clear that he is the only one in charge. If they want to appear to change things but stay in power themselves, easiest way is to blame it all on Xi and get rid of HIM.
Posted by: Art Rondelet of Malmsey at June 20, 2021 12:44 PM (fTtFy)

I forget the name of the former ruler... and if I refer to him as Ching Chang Chong, the internet will accuse me of being rayciss.

So, let's just say [insert name here] is still around, and this is kinda how that works in China. If Xi shows weakness, [insert name here's] faction will push him out. They're powerful, but apparently not yet powerful enough.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 20, 2021 12:48 PM (naMR+)

211 Never say never. It took approximately 70 years for the USSR to fall and they had a pretty solid hold on people too or so they thought. The PRC has been in existence for ... 72 years. This too shall pass.

Posted by: leber at June 20, 2021 12:48 PM (MxeFh)

212 The Paolo, how you say, works late many nights.
Posted by: The Paolo

--

Oh, I wouldn't say it was work. . . .

-- Peter Gibbons

Posted by: Tonypete at June 20, 2021 12:48 PM (Rvt88)

213 208 In other words, China's "success" is not China's, but instead the American oligarchs committing a massive con on the American people, so they could enrich themselves.

And they have.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 20, 2021 12:03 PM (AIH1c)
--------------------------

It would be much more difficult for the Xi gang without America's support.

Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 12:50 PM (/FocL)

214 There's a whole thing out there, for anyone
interested, where the so-called serious anarchists have this all figured
out. It's all too optimistic for me, but the basic argument is, if you
had a private system of keeping the peace, how could it be any WORSE
than leaving that job to the government?
Posted by: BurtTC at June 20, 2021 12:41 PM (naMR+)

there is a huge ideological struggle between the concepts of the cops are evil and back teh blue. It turns into name calling usually, and some poorly though out legislation. It forgets some important issues.

1) city and state police are enforcers of the city and state political class, not overseen by the people who pay for and stand to gain/lose by their functions
2) everyone loves "their" cops, so love them or hate them depends on if they are seen to support or oppose what is desired.

Posted by: Kindltot at June 20, 2021 12:50 PM (ySM85)

215
Federal Takeover of all Police functions.

"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
-Barack Obama

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at June 20, 2021 12:50 PM (63Dwl)

216 "The time to actually make a ripple was in the days immediately after the election. We ( Trump voters) did not just show up in the streets en masse...not to be violent or wage a physical war, but just to show up to demonstrate our numbers."

I went to the Trump rally in Valdosta after the election but before the GA runoff and knew then it was over from the turnout and the fact that those pukes Loleffler and Perdud didn't say one fucking thing about fighting the steal.

Posted by: f'd at June 20, 2021 12:51 PM (Tnijr)

217 Oh, I wouldn't say it was work. . . .
========================
It is exercise, however.

Posted by: Cary Grant at June 20, 2021 12:51 PM (7Fj9P)

218 North Korea has done the impossible to keep things stably by making everyone everyone else's keeper, and China seems to be trying to emulate that "success" but even the DDR with a majority of the citizens working for the Stasi got to that point.
Posted by: Kindltot at June 20, 2021 12:45 PM (ySM85)

One of the major differences between North Korea and damn near every other communist "paradise" is the absolute homogeny of the people. There are no other ethnic groups, no other languages, no other cultures. So the clampdown the Kim family has been able to enforce is aided in large part by being as isolated and homogenous as they are.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 20, 2021 12:53 PM (naMR+)

219 We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
-Barack Obama
===========================
Let's just deputize Antifa and BLM!

Posted by: The Squad, et al at June 20, 2021 12:53 PM (7Fj9P)

220 "We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
-Barack Obama
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at June 20, 2021 12:50 PM (63Dwl)

"And so I am hereby deputizing the Bloods and the Crips to be our civilian national security force." - Barack Obama

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 20, 2021 12:53 PM (YqDXo)

221 Almost all revolutions in history were preceded by a large rise in food prices, either through inflation or a bad harvest / drought.

China knows this, and imports TONS of food from the US... even as their faming industry fails.
Posted by: Romeo13 at June 20, 2021 12:21 PM (oHd/0)

They use more of our soybeans than we do, I believe.

Posted by: clutch at June 20, 2021 12:53 PM (+8+lV)

222 Let's just deputize Antifa and BLM!
Posted by: The Squad, et al at June 20, 2021 12:53 PM (7Fj9P)

GMTA!

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 20, 2021 12:54 PM (YqDXo)

223 Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara
===============
Missed it by [] that much.

Posted by: The Squad, et al at June 20, 2021 12:55 PM (7Fj9P)

224 201 Art, I agree that Xi has made himself emperor in effect like Kim did in NK. The risk is that others elites frustrated from being locked out of Supreme power in the state will have reason to usurp Xi's position and any misfortune that China has domestically or internationally that can be blamed on Xi will be the reason for removal. Even Mao in his dotage was basically forced to make Hua Guofeng his successor.

As the Sov Union found, transitions between leaders for life get tricky and governance suffers as a Supreme ruler ages out with the usual problems of sycophants replacing any dissenters among top ministers.

Posted by: whig at June 20, 2021 12:55 PM (pO7gM)

225 214 1) city and state police are enforcers of the city and state political class, not overseen by the people who pay for and stand to gain/lose by their functions
Posted by: Kindltot at June 20, 2021 12:50 PM (ySM85)

This is the part of the whole BLM thing that irritates me the most. They blame all and sundry for real and perceived police injustices...except the one group that actually controls metro police departments and sets their standing orders, the (invariably Democrat) local political machine. You never, ever, ever, ever even hear a whisper of a plan to oust all incumbents in the next election, or find and harass the corrupt big-name donors. Why, it's almost like it's just another donkey-cult op to keep The Big N under thumb!

Posted by: CppThis at June 20, 2021 12:56 PM (8h1h1)

226 The natural order of people to be free is an anomaly. See Democrats who vote to enslave themselves every 2 years.

Posted by: Joe XiDen at June 20, 2021 12:57 PM (e2Xx1)

227 Federal Takeover of all Police functions.

See Common Core for the same thing in education.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 20, 2021 12:57 PM (YqDXo)

228 Seems to me that the fascist billionaires who control President * admire many CCP policies and ideas and are trying to emulate them. We might have our own Tiananmen Square sooner than one expects!

Posted by: Rufusrastasjohnsonbrown at June 20, 2021 12:57 PM (rm/3B)

229 Critical Nation Theory

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at June 20, 2021 12:58 PM (63Dwl)

230 Federal police Force
Dream of Leftists everywhere

Posted by: Skip at June 20, 2021 12:59 PM (Cxk7w)

231 216 f'd,
Loeffler was the wife of the NY Stock Exchange owner who had a significant financial interest in promoting Chinese companies being listed and Perdue was and is a tired old man tied to the corporatist wing of GOPe. Amusingly, Perdue announced that he was considering running against Warnock in 2022 and more or less backed out after getting a rather rude reception.

Posted by: whig at June 20, 2021 01:01 PM (pO7gM)

232 In other words, China's "success" is not China's, but instead the American oligarchs committing a massive con on the American people, so they could enrich themselves.

And they have.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 20, 2021 12:03 PM (AIH1c)

It would be much more difficult for the Xi gang without America's support.
Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 12:50 PM (/FocL)

It would. And this I think remains Trump's greatest accomplishment, and perhaps the one that eventually seals his place in American history, in that he opposed the American oligarchs, while opening the eyes of ordinary Americans to the internal threat that has been, for decades, the rich selling out this nation to the CCP. And others, but primarily the CCP.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 20, 2021 01:01 PM (naMR+)

233 1st NOOD

Posted by: Skip at June 20, 2021 01:01 PM (Cxk7w)

234 This is the part of the whole BLM thing that irritates me the most. They blame all and sundry for real and perceived police injustices...except the one group that actually controls metro police departments and sets their standing orders, the (invariably Democrat) local political machine.

There's one other group they never blame: themselves, and they are their own biggest problem. Engage in wholesale crime, do lots of other stupid things, wrestle with cops for their weapons, and get a surprise.

Their problems are almost entirely self-inflicted wounds. See immigrants from Africa or the Caribbean who do just fine.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 20, 2021 01:01 PM (YqDXo)

235 Federal police Force

Dream of Leftists everywhere
Posted by: Skip at June 20, 2021 12:59 PM (Cxk7w)

the Guardia Civil and the Guardia de Asalto were just that

Posted by: Kindltot at June 20, 2021 01:03 PM (ySM85)

236 226 Xiden, from what corruption has been uncovered in urban cities, it might be more that their vote is changed to whatever the ruling elites in a city want it to be.

The untold political story in urban areas is the vast amount of power that real estate developers play along with the financial industry via debt. Essentially, the looting classes are developers with the buy low, sell high based on city government policies, the civil servants of a dysfunctional city government, and the financiers that take the taxpayers of such places to the cleaners via debt instruments.

Posted by: whig at June 20, 2021 01:04 PM (pO7gM)

237
"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
-Barack Obama
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at June 20, 2021 12:50 PM (63Dwl)

This is their goal. And don't tell me Barky isn't wielding power in this junta. We really are seeing his third term.

Posted by: Justsayin' at June 20, 2021 01:08 PM (Fs5vw)

238 One thing CBD missed in this:

The Soviet Union disintegrated because it never was an union, but a country with 12 enslaved colonies communists ruled at gunpoint for 70 years.

China, on the other hand, aside from Tibet, is one single entity, with one culture and history.

If communist China ever collapsed, it would still be that one entity.

Posted by: Mente de Caca at June 20, 2021 01:10 PM (D72rQ)

239 >>> 52 Xi's Taiwan attack timeline grows shorter by the day.
November 2022 Republicans will retake the house and senate. This will constrain Biden's directors and have heavy influence on the focus of our military.
Posted by: Braenyard, orthodox conservative at June 20, 2021 11:33 AM (/FocL)

We're so scared.

Posted by: GOPe, Dominion Voting Systems, those six states that stopped counting... at June 20, 2021 01:11 PM (ACi07)

240
^^^ I think "we" were still hoping the Supreme Court would back us. I think we were still looking for a way IN the system to get justice. Which of course is how the LEFT knew we wouldn't fight with violence. That is not how we instinctively act first...
Posted by: Iris at June 20, 2021 12:37 PM (6lKe4)

You're right. And it will be the same in 2022 and 2024. They know we won't fight back so they'll just continue to steal elections.

And we'll cry out and bluster on blogs but will, in the end, do nothing.

Posted by: Justsayin' at June 20, 2021 01:18 PM (Fs5vw)

241 Remember how Thomas Friedman orgasmed over the thought of having the Chinese system? Basically fascism?

Because it is here now. They have won.

Posted by: Loki, looking to water the Tree of Liberty at June 20, 2021 01:58 PM (KqiMr)

242 Right now we're back to fighting ourselves.

We're the ones who are bankrolling China. Russia did not have that. They folded because their economy couldn't fight us with a huge military while providing for their populace. Too many basic things did not work and once they were able to see what they western world had they wanted that too.

China has that plus they have a homogenous well trained population. And it's very large also. When Trump got in China started having to actually pay for their economy and the population became a bit unruly but they managed to get Trump hog tied and then kicked out before he could finish the job.

And now China will make sure we can't do that again. Or at least try to. It's up to us to realize who are enemy is in politics. It's not so much the other party, it's the media propaganda bought and paid for by China and the Chinese infiltration of our institutions with MONEY. OUR MONEY.

Posted by: jakee308 at June 20, 2021 02:13 PM (++Sf8)

243 It will happen. It may take longer than the USSR but it will. The Wuhan Flu was, I think, released in part to stifle the Hong Kong protests and it got away from them. Plus, technology works both ways and they can see people in democratic states protesting their governments and Taiwan doing just fine without the CCP.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at June 20, 2021 02:26 PM (M+sEY)

244 "Get rid of local cops. Crime rises. Then you have to call to the Federal Government to reign in the Chaos.
Federal Takeover of all Police functions.
That is the only logical goal UNLESS its just watching their cities burn."

I think it was Tucker that pointed that out. The cops are largely "America First", or on the side of justice, whatever ... Not on the Left. So ... police must be destroyed, ... "we need an internal security force, as powerful and as well funded as our military".

These totalitarian Fluckers think in terms of controlling the Sovereign Rights Americans with absolute Force of Stasi like top down control. We must be forced to obey the Dictator.

Posted by: illiniwek at June 20, 2021 02:44 PM (Cus5s)

245 oh, I see Bertram remembered that quote as well ... he got it correct, I paraphrased.

Posted by: illiniwek at June 20, 2021 02:46 PM (Cus5s)

246 No coup or revolution is the least bit likely.

You forget that Deng's reforms were enormously successful. 400 million Chinese were raised from poverty to middle class life styles. There's a billion more to go, but the CPC is publicly making them the main priority.

The Chinese people see the accomplishments. They are grateful for substantially better lives, and proud of their countries achievements in all areas. Nationalism runs strong in them. There are hardly any SJW's or LBGTWTF++. There is no tradition of democracy. The people think they are in a democracy! The rule of the CPC is secure.

Posted by: bob sykes at June 20, 2021 03:27 PM (T05ck)

247 At one point, we contemplated helping the Chinese people pull off a Coup.

But instead, the Chinese Communists helped our Traitor Class pull off a Coup here.

#War.

Posted by: The Gipper Lives at June 20, 2021 04:08 PM (Ndje9)

248 Yes, thank God China will be getting sodomy, tranny bathrooms, feminism, anarcho-tyranny, BLM, ADL, Dolan Heights, massive Third World immigration, Corporation sponsored Critical Race theory, St. George of Fent, anti-Whiteness, on and on and on. So please let's celebrate democracy as hunts down and kills every normal White person. FREEEEEEEDUMB!!!!!!!!

Posted by: RandbotFan at June 21, 2021 11:32 AM (i7ZAA)

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