Tucker Carlson Gets Results: Weakling Cvck "Republican" Mike Braun Folds, Will Withdraw Qualified Immunity Bill

A couple of nights ago, Tucker Carlson absolutely demolished weakling Democrat in Republican clothing Mike Braun, who introduced a bill to strip immunity from police in order to avoid criticism from Chuck Schumer.

By the way, I've seen some commenters saying that qualified immunity should be stripped away.

First of all: You do know qualified immunity only protects police in their personal capacity, right? Someone said, "If a neighbor kills my dog, I sue him. If a cop kills my dog, I should be able to sue him too."

Well you can sue him: You sue the state or city that employs him. He's an agent of the city or state, and according to usual agent-principle rules, if an agent commits a tort, you can sue the principle on whose behalf he was acting.

And a city or state has much deeper pockets than a cop making $65,000 per year.

If you want recompense for injury done to you by an agent of the state: You've already got that. You can sue the state. Qualified immunity does not protect the state from such suits.

If you want to sue the cop personally, you're just looking for vengeance.

Making cops personally liable for any torts they commit will have two outcomes:

1, it will be a standard new benefit given to any cops that the state will pay for personal liability insurance.

Obviously.

Who would take the job if he was not simply given backdoor immunity in this way?

So the state will still pick up the tab for any torts committed by cops. Taxpayers will now just have to pay extra, because the insurer is of course going to have business expenses and profit margins that he builds into the cost of insurance.

2, to the extent reducing qualified immunity has any effect at all -- and it might have a marginal effect, even with insurance, because with insurance plans you usually have to pay, say, the first $1500 or $2000 of costs -- the effect will be that cops simply stop doing their jobs.

If you think cops spend a lot of time aimlessly cruising around and chatting up waitresses in donut shops, wait until you're threatening them with personal liability lawsuits every single time they answer a citizen's call.

If you were a cop, and you realized that every single arrest could wind up costing you literally hundreds of thousands of dollars -- your house, your car, your kids' college funds -- how many arrests do you think you'd make?

Easier to just eat donuts.

If you want to get rid of qualified immunity for cops, just be honest with yourselves and call for and end to police as BLM wants. Getting rid of qualified immunity just means you keep paying cop salaries, without getting cop services.

Update: Alex the Chick, imp, and a couple other commenters have made a good case that my argument that you can always just sue the principle is not always correct.

I think that's an argument for making states and cities liable for the torts committed by their agents -- not making the agents open to personal suit.

There's no way to avoid the conclusion that if you penalize a cop for making an arrest, he'll want to stop making arrests. Or arrest people who will give him no problems, over trifles, to make quota, while leaving the predators who are likely to resist arrest free to victimize more citizens.

Anyway:

The weakling Mike Braun has folded and will withdraw his bill.

Huge scoop from Revolver

Mike Braun to withdraw qualified immunity billhttps://t.co/brkaOxnZRR
— Darren J. Beattie 🌐 (@DarrenJBeattie) July 1, 2020

Update: Braun insists he's not pulling the bill... yet.

I took down the tweet from about qualified immunity because Braun's office is insisting that he's not pulling it. I can confirm that he absolutely was having that conversation earlier in the day. We'll see what unfolds.
— Ryan James Girdusky (@RyanGirdusky) July 1, 2020

The other night, Carlson had a must-watch segment.

His point, summed up, is that Republican office-holders are weakling cowards and pussies who are "pleasers" by nature and will do whatever they think will "please" people. We cannot expect leadership from them; they are weak and stupid.

We will have to just straight-up tell them what to do, with the threat that we will boot their weakling cvck asses out of office if they don't listen.

Along the same lines:

Republicans Ron Johnson and James Lankford are showing their Need to Please Black Lives Matter by proposing we officially cancel Columbus Day and replace it with... Juneteenth, a new national federal holiday.

Didn’t see this one coming: Ron Johnson and James Lankford are seeking to amend Cornyn’s bill making Juneteenth a holiday by replacing Columbus Day with it: https://t.co/rhbjfOTduQ
— Tal Kopan (@TalKopan) July 1, 2020

I don't have a problem with Juneteenth, but this is like offering to withdraw Americans from Saudi bases while Al Qaeda is blowing up the Twin Towers.

What is needed is to arrest antifa and BLM terrorists, not embolden them further by showing how eager we are to drop to our knees and suck their Mighty, Powerful Dicks.

At this rate, Senate GOP will introduce its own Green New Deal, a bill for reparations, college loan forgiveness and universal health care. What an utter disgrace and joke: https://t.co/XdGCYLGofi
— Julie Kelly (@julie_kelly2) July 1, 2020

We elected Republicans to the Senate to...

cc: @senatemajldr @realDonaldTrump
— Kurt Schlichter (@KurtSchlichter) July 1, 2020

This op-ed by Carlson is a must-watch too. One by one, all of the people who are supposed to protect us have shown that they are feckless cowards. Governments, police, corporations, conservative media "warriors."

There is no one to protect us, except us.

So we'll have to do the job our cowardly politicians, police, DOJ officials, and conservative media figures are too a-scared to do:

Posted by: Ace at 03:45 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 First still?

Posted by: Skip at July 01, 2020 03:47 PM (6f16T)

2 Tucker face

Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 03:47 PM (gtdYu)

3 not first

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting terrorist in Nakatomi Tower at July 01, 2020 03:47 PM (LvTSG)

4 Top 10!!!

Posted by: Diogenes at July 01, 2020 03:48 PM (axyOa)

5 Well done, TuCa.

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at July 01, 2020 03:48 PM (KnJdm)

6 Making cops personally liable for any torts they commit will have two outcomes:

1, it will be a standard new benefit given to any cops that the state will pay for personal liability insurance.

Obviously.

Who would take the job if he was not simply given backdoor immunity in this way?

So the state will still pick up the tab for any torts committed by cops. Taxpayers will now just have to pay extra, because the insurer is of course going to have business expenses and profit margins that he builds into the cost of insurance.

There's an argument that this would have a positive effect, as insurance companies refuse to insure cops with too many complaints, or demand outrageous premiums. This would drive them out of the business. That said, I don't think that it would have enough of an effect to cause much change overall.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at July 01, 2020 03:49 PM (wCmLp)

7 Was looking around and realized its a new thread, so had to go find last thread to call Corgis

Posted by: Skip at July 01, 2020 03:49 PM (6f16T)

8 SPONGE!!!!

Posted by: Insomniac - Ex Cineribus Resurgo at July 01, 2020 03:49 PM (NWiLs)

9 Tucker is the only remaining reason to watch Foxnews. OAN should offer a big contract to Bill O'Reilly.

Posted by: Hawkpilot at July 01, 2020 03:49 PM (7wyok)

10 These guys are not only weak, they think that DC/MSM opinion reflects something general, rather than narrow.

Posted by: Mikey NTH -The Outrage Outlet Proudly Sponsors Wokeapalooza - The Riot Festival of Summer! at July 01, 2020 03:49 PM (3iBoj)

11 I believe in getting rid of qualified immunity...

For DAs, mayors, city councils, senators, and representatives.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 01, 2020 03:49 PM (kA3Cp)

12 How about judges and prosecutors lose a little bit of their immunity? I think we can agree that we should be able to sue prosecutors for malicious prosecution. Maybe they will think twice before way over charging people.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 01, 2020 03:49 PM (cnTJD)

13
Hey, any chance this guy could be one of the questioners at the debates?

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at July 01, 2020 03:50 PM (G51Gf)

14 We do need to pull back on qualified immunity, but for all public officials.

We need to be able to sue, personally, prosecutors who abuse their powers.

We need to be able to sue, personally, judges who abuse their powers.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting terrorist in Nakatomi Tower at July 01, 2020 03:50 PM (LvTSG)

15 Conservatives need to fight hard against Tucker Carlson. Please read my latest, "The Conservative Case For Burning Down His House While His Wife And Children Sleep In the Night"

Posted by: The Rev. Colonel David French, A Xantastic Guy! at July 01, 2020 03:50 PM (cMhK0)

16 There's an argument that this would have a positive effect, as insurance companies refuse to insure cops with too many complaints, or demand outrageous premiums. This would drive them out of the business. That said, I don't think that it would have enough of an effect to cause much change overall.
Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at July 01, 2020 03:49 PM (wCmLp)

Guaranteed unions would work indemnification clauses in to any work contract.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 01, 2020 03:51 PM (cnTJD)

17 >>>11 I believe in getting rid of qualified immunity...

For DAs, mayors, city councils, senators, and representatives.

...

again, insurance against personal liability will simply be made part of their base compensation package.

When someone from the electric company accidentally starts a fire in your house, you don't sue the linesman who did it. You sue the fucking electric company.

Do people not get this?

Posted by: ace at July 01, 2020 03:51 PM (PbpT7)

18 TuCa stripped the bark off of Braun, and got results.

Well done, TuCa.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 03:51 PM (pmpob)

19 ...lockdowns, defund the police, riots ... etc. etc. Are they trying to accelerate the exodus from blue states to red

Posted by: Pliney at July 01, 2020 03:51 PM (nzKWW)

20 Braun's office is insisting that he isn't pulling the bill yet.

Just FYI.

https://tinyurl.com/ycaszyfc

Posted by: Thrawn at July 01, 2020 03:51 PM (/2yZ7)

21 This also shows that Braun is a nitwit. He proposed this stupid legislation without having thought it through, apparently not having much to think it through WITH.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 03:52 PM (pmpob)

22 Guaranteed unions would work indemnification clauses in to any work contract.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 01, 2020 03:51 PM (cnTJD)

I keep saying that you can either get rid of QI, or unions, but not both. Get rid of QI and unions suddenly become a lot more important for cops.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at July 01, 2020 03:52 PM (wCmLp)

23 hurray ... Tucker might become a star across several platforms ... I only see him on You-Tube, or maybe directly from a Fox online video from their site. His show gets good numbers, but the YouTube reach might be even more ... with Trump himself being the most important viewer.

Congrats to Tucker ... for these results from facing down a fake Republican.

Posted by: illiniwek at July 01, 2020 03:52 PM (Cus5s)

24 His point, summed up, is that Republican office-holders are weakling
cowards and pussies who are "pleasers" by nature and will do whatever
they think will "please" people. We cannot expect leadership from them;
they are weak and stupid.

This is exactly how Lebanon ended up being run by Hezbollah. The Christian Democratic party became progressively weaker, more compromised and corrupt over time as they conceded more and more to the wrong muzzies.

And now Lebanon is in the beginning stages of becoming Venezuela.

Posted by: kallisto at July 01, 2020 03:52 PM (DJFLF)

25 >>I believe in getting rid of qualified immunity...

>>For DAs, mayors, city councils, senators, and representatives.

Federal prosecutors.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 01, 2020 03:52 PM (ZLI7S)

26 Braun's office is insisting that he isn't pulling the bill yet.

Face-saving gesture. What he's pulling right now is his dick.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 03:53 PM (pmpob)

27 "I'm fighting against mask-stigma!"

Posted by: Mitch "Bitch" McConnell at July 01, 2020 03:53 PM (luzVb)

28 *checks Ace's watch

Still 10 past midnight?

Posted by: MJ at July 01, 2020 03:53 PM (gAMkn)

29 thanks, thrawn

Posted by: ace at July 01, 2020 03:53 PM (PbpT7)

30 "We will have to just straight-up tell them what to do, with the threat that we will boot their weakling cvck asses out of office if they don't listen."

Same thing Milton Friedman said 40 years ago.

Don't expect politicians to do the right thing. They will do what serves them -- winning re-election.

A citizen's job continues long after going to the polls. Have you put your representatives' numbers on your phone?

Ace posted this nine years ago. Still relevant today. Full disclosure: That's me in the video.

http://tinyurl.com/5wrku5j

Posted by: Michael Rittenhouse at July 01, 2020 03:53 PM (Ph5jo)

31 willlowed:

392 So then what's your point, nurse? I think Mayor Jenny should go to jail for this. She won't, of course - but she should.

And we talk about personal responsibility, yeah, but usually for adults. Of course young teenage boys are going to make irresponsible decisions. Adults around them should be protecting them.
Posted by: Broseidon - Now A Scientist, Too

I would dance naked on the top of the space needle if Durkan was arrested for her crime of allowing CHAZ to fester in her city. it isn't going to happen.

Like I said. I agree with you.

but those kids fucked up. unfortunately they got caught in the crossfire. OR they willingly were out looking for trouble and found it.

Posted by: nurse ratched at July 01, 2020 03:53 PM (W2Pud)

32 Do people not get this?

Posted by: ace at July 01, 2020 03:51 PM (PbpT7)

They don't. "End qualified immunity" has become a magic phrase on the right.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at July 01, 2020 03:53 PM (wCmLp)

33 Tucker held back last night. he even framed it that way and saud so about not going inot details about what our country would look like. If he thought Venezula, he would have said so as Venezula is a normie republican and conservative bumperstick. Tucker knows the score. he knows both parties are the same. he knows the Moaist hellscape they have planned for us.

Posted by: always ahead of the curve at July 01, 2020 03:53 PM (ozHKW)

34 It's official now: France is braver than the GOP.

https://tinyurl.com/y7f2wdqy

Posted by: PJ at July 01, 2020 03:53 PM (qlTN9)

35 "If you want to sue the cop personally, you're just looking for vengeance."

Maybe.....

Posted by: Hatari Somewhere on Ventura Highway at July 01, 2020 03:54 PM (M+Lyo)

36 Mike Braun has a CR rating of 90. He must be an expert at manipulating the system.

Posted by: Vic at July 01, 2020 03:54 PM (mpXpK)

37 Do people not get this?

Posted by: ace

--

I disagree. When a mayor tells the police force to not respond to a public menace, they cannot be covered by insurance, and additionally they must be held personally responsible, and face jail time.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 01, 2020 03:54 PM (kA3Cp)

38 Braun should do the Honorable thing!

Posted by: Ghost of Tom Lantos at July 01, 2020 03:54 PM (Izot6)

39 A couple of nights ago, Tucker Carlson absolutely demolished weakling Democrat in Republican clothing Mike Braun, who introduced a bill to strip immunity from police in order to avoid criticism from Chuck Schumer.

I think that a lot of these congressmen get isolated and surrounded by like-mined opponents, losing their way or being intimidated by people they should be ignoring or leading. Its probably easy to do. You're from Normalville, you get voted into congress. You show up and every single person in the entire town is crazylander. Maybe you're the weirdo, not them?

I have seen it happen over and over, where someone from a normal human sane existence goes to a city or a college where they get surrounded and overwhelmed by the crazies congregated there and lose their way.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 03:54 PM (KZzsI)

40 Ace - That was a really good explanation of why we want to keep limited immunity.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 01, 2020 03:54 PM (CjFDo)

41 by: ace at July 01, 2020 03:51 PM (PbpT7)

Prosecutorial immunity is a little different. There is literally no one to sue if the state maliciously prosecutes you or acts in a highly dishonest way. Your only recourse is a bar complaint against the prosecutor.

But yes in general ending qualified immunity for torts is silly. The department and officer will (in most states) be jointly and severally liable anyways. Which means the state still pays.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 01, 2020 03:54 PM (cnTJD)

42 Yep. Ask all those race hustlers who squeezed -ahem, extorted- municipalities out of six- and seven-figure settlements when a black criminal was killed by a cop and the government subdivision didn't want to go thru a lengthy trial for this or that reason, NOT that the killing wasnt justified. There's no such thing as immunity from criminal law or civil law when a criminal act occurred. It's against public policy. But hey, those low information rubes will really be impressed!

Posted by: Magnum PU at July 01, 2020 03:54 PM (zHfzL)

43 If you want to get rid of qualified immunity for cops, just be honest with yourselves and call for and end to police as BLM wants. Getting rid of qualified immunity just means you keep paying cop salaries, without getting cop services.

ace, tell you what. You go tell that cuck Clarence Thomas that.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/18-1287_09m1.pdf

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 03:55 PM (GbPPJ)

44 When a mayor tells the police force to not respond to a public menace, they cannot be covered by insurance, and additionally they must be held personally responsible, and face jail time.

I think you're almost there. You don't hold the police officers responsible. You hold the commissioner, the mayor, and the highest authorities responsible.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 03:55 PM (KZzsI)

45 I don't trust Tucker Carlson. He defended Jeff Sessions early on in the Trump admin and said Trump would be foolish to fire him. This was in 2017 when the Russia witch hunt could've been nipped in the bud. Tucker also personally Lobbied Trump into supporting the corona lockdown.

Posted by: Serious Cat at July 01, 2020 03:55 PM (zqs/f)

46 We need to have an actual debate/discussion on qualified immunity-- what it's supposed to do vs. what it actually does, and how/why it exists (via the judiciary iirc, not actual laws). I appreciate the mini-explainer, but it's one-sided and a little condescending, sorry.

Saying it's off the table is a bad look. Art of the Deal, remember? You gotta have some asks in there you don't care if you don't get.

You ask for Must-Haves, Would-Be-Nices and Other Crap, but don't let on what is which.

Posted by: Lance McCormick at July 01, 2020 03:55 PM (yNsUg)

47 When a DA refuses to prosecute looters, they must be held accountable as well.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 01, 2020 03:55 PM (kA3Cp)

48 Don't get rid of qualified immunity for cops. Terrible idea.

Get rid of police unions.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 01, 2020 03:55 PM (ZLI7S)

49 Do regret Tuck starts when its my should be bed time, him and Levin are the knly reasons I watch Fox at all.

Posted by: Skip at July 01, 2020 03:55 PM (6f16T)

50 14 We do need to pull back on qualified immunity, but for all public officials.

We need to be able to sue, personally, prosecutors who abuse their powers.

We need to be able to sue, personally, judges who abuse their powers.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting terrorist in Nakatomi Tower at July 01, 2020 03:50 PM (LvTSG)

We need to be able to sue, personally, Governors and Mayors who close our business down.

And take our Civil Rights.

I don't see an Amendment to the Constitution that says my Rights are gone if there is a bad flu.

Posted by: Romeo13 at July 01, 2020 03:56 PM (NgKpN)

51 We need to be able to sue Gavin Newsome. When did California become Cuba?

Posted by: notsothoreau at July 01, 2020 03:56 PM (JKNZq)

52 Dude has a very punchable face.

I'm just sayin'.....

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, Texas at July 01, 2020 03:56 PM (SRRAx)

53 See if you bust the cops for following lousy orders, all you get are worse and worse cops who'll take the job.

But if you bust the people GIVING the orders, then the bad orders are reduced or eliminated.

Punish the source of the problem, not the fringes.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 03:57 PM (KZzsI)

54 Yes, but the state generally has sovereign immunity, which is waived only to the extent of the limits of any court of claims it may have set up.

And then there's also usually individual immunity for "discretionary" acts, as opposed to "ministerial" acts.

It's often just not very easy to bring a claim against the state or an individual agent.

Posted by: Biff Pocaroba at July 01, 2020 03:57 PM (YFAIE)

55 I think that a lot of these congressmen get isolated and surrounded by like-mined opponents, losing their way or being intimidated by people they should be ignoring or leading. Its probably easy to do. You're from Normalville, you get voted into congress. You show up and every single person in the entire town is crazylander. Maybe you're the weirdo, not them?

I have seen it happen over and over, where someone from a normal human sane existence goes to a city or a college where they get surrounded and overwhelmed by the crazies congregated there and lose their way.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 03:54 PM (KZzsI)

I work for a state legislature and there's strong pressure to be seen as "doing something" about an issue. Add in that they often only see the constituents who show up to complain about some terrible, horrible, problem, and it's no wonder that they react the way they do.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at July 01, 2020 03:57 PM (wCmLp)

56 How long before Romney, Murkowski and Collins introduce their version of the bill?

Posted by: Hotgas VIP Member at July 01, 2020 03:57 PM (SjAGT)

57 The most interesting thing I've seen Tucker signal is when he specifically chose the staue of Albert pike being shown torn down by the Maoist cultural Revolutionaries. Albert Pike is way more famous for being a 33rd degree freemason having writen several books, who people on the level have downloaded and read within the past 20 years or more.
Tucker is smart. he has been working with and within the den of vipers for the past 20 years.

Posted by: always ahead of the curve at July 01, 2020 03:57 PM (ozHKW)

58 He defended Jeff Sessions early on in the Trump admin and said Trump would be foolish to fire him. This was in 2017 when the Russia witch hunt could've been nipped in the bud. Tucker also personally Lobbied Trump into supporting the corona lockdown.

He's not perfect and he's admitted that before. He used to, years ago, be a pretty Kristol-like GOPe figure.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 03:58 PM (KZzsI)

59 55 I work for a state legislature and there's strong pressure to be seen as "doing something" about an issue. Add in that they often only see the constituents who show up to complain about some terrible, horrible, problem, and it's no wonder that they react the way they do.
Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at July 01, 2020 03:57 PM (wCmLp)

=========

Sounds like we should show up to their offices more often.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting terrorist in Nakatomi Tower at July 01, 2020 03:58 PM (LvTSG)

60 This qualified immunity applies to all government agents doing their jobs. Not just cops.

Think your property tax is too high?
Sue the appraisor.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 01, 2020 03:58 PM (1g7ch)

61 QI is hyper abused by govt where wrong doing is not punished at all. Not a good system.

Posted by: AAsshoe at July 01, 2020 03:58 PM (a48q1)

62 Did this Braun guy actually express concern about criticism from the vile Chuck Schumer?
If so, huh

Posted by: Brother Northernlurker just another guy at July 01, 2020 03:58 PM (lgiXo)

63 Posted by: Lance McCormick at July 01, 2020 03:55 PM (yNsUg)

On my phone so short explanation. But it comes from sovereign immunity. You cannot sue the king.

Courts have extended that to government agents.

States allow you to sue them for certain torts. Federal government does as well. Through a federal 1983 suit you can sue state actors in federal court.

But in general agents of the government have a qualified immunity as long as they are doing their job

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 01, 2020 03:59 PM (cnTJD)

64 I think that a lot of these congressmen get isolated and surrounded by like-mined opponents, losing their way or being intimidated by people they should be ignoring or leading. Its probably easy to do. You're from Normalville, you get voted into congress. You show up and every single person in the entire town is crazylander. Maybe you're the weirdo, not them?

I have seen it happen over and over, where someone from a normal human sane existence goes to a city or a college where they get surrounded and overwhelmed by the crazies congregated there and lose their way.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 03:54 PM (KZzsI)

A great argument for having virtual sessions of Congress.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 03:59 PM (pmpob)

65 According to the Sydney Powell interview yesterday, Federal Prosecutors have Absolute Immunity ...

Why don't we start on reducing that to qualified?

Posted by: Adriane the Legle Beagle Critic ... at July 01, 2020 03:59 PM (LPnfS)

66 I work for a state legislature and there's strong pressure to be seen as "doing something" about an issue. Add in that they often only see the constituents who show up to complain about some terrible, horrible, problem, and it's no wonder that they react the way they do.
-----------------------
I think this where Tucker is going. He didn't say it specifically but we need to find out a way to get in front of our representatives and let them know how we feel.

We need to adapt very quickly to this new environment where there are no in person meetings.

Posted by: MJ at July 01, 2020 04:00 PM (gAMkn)

67
Time to get Ron Johnson and James Lankford on Carlson's show. Might as well get all of the surrender Republicans on and give them the Braun treatment

Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 01, 2020 04:00 PM (mpeBU)

68 I work for a state legislature and there's strong pressure to be seen as "doing something" about an issue. Add in that they often only see the constituents who show up to complain about some terrible, horrible, problem, and it's no wonder that they react the way they do.

I think it takes an unusual person of very strong character and very solid well-considered worldview to stand up to that kind of thing and do what is right and wise, despite the pressures they face.

Its easy for me to carp and moan on a blog comment section about How Things Should Be when my job isn't on the line and I have no responsibilities.

That's not an excuse for them -- it is their job and duty to be strong and wise and have integrity. But it is a bit more understandable why guys like this stumble so often.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:00 PM (KZzsI)

69 If i sue the city because the cop shoots my dog for barking, or tases my child for having a tantrum, the city will say, sorry, but it's not our policy that cops shoot dogs or tase children under such circumstance, and we've issued a strongly worded reprimand to the officer. You've got to sue him, it's his fault. If I then sue the cop, he claims QI. So there needs to be a middle ground, because shitty cops use QI to continue being shitty cops without consequence, and shit governments continue being shit governments without consequence.

Posted by: Gundo at July 01, 2020 04:00 PM (JwWso)

70 Juneteenth goes mainstream? Fine with me. What a perfect opportunity to honor Abraham Lincoln and give thanks to the 360K+ Union soldiers who gave their lives fighting to end slavery.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at July 01, 2020 04:00 PM (Yn6WC)

71 The police, in general, already prefer to hand out tickets to compliant white folks (nice revenue for cities) ... rather than enter ganglands. And BLM is happy to start policing their hoods ... where they perhaps already half run it with their gangs

Gentle Giant Brown walking down middle of the (Ferguson) street, reached in cop car, tried to take gun, after robbing a store ... black thug privilege. Black gangs have been terrorizing the blacks in those areas. (which is why Trump CAN win more black vote with law and order, and family values)

Posted by: illiniwek at July 01, 2020 04:01 PM (Cus5s)

72 A great argument for having virtual sessions of Congress.

And, very likely, why Democrats are so very opposed to the idea, even in "a time of crisis" like now.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:01 PM (KZzsI)

73 I don't trust Tucker Carlson. He defended Jeff Sessions early on in the Trump admin and said Trump would be foolish to fire him. This was in 2017 when the Russia witch hunt could've been nipped in the bud. Tucker also personally Lobbied Trump into supporting the corona lockdown.
Posted by: Serious Cat

Don't have to. He's not your rotary league captain or your boss.

Further, the standard you're asking for here is perfection. Guess how that turns out?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 01, 2020 04:01 PM (L6ZYH)

74 Update: Braun insists he's not pulling the bill... yet.

someone reminded him that they do have pics

Posted by: x at July 01, 2020 04:01 PM (nFwvY)

75
I don't see an Amendment to the Constitution that says my Rights are gone if there is a bad flu.

Posted by: Romeo13

THIS.

And please remember that "judges and lawyers and torts, oh my" also gave us the ruling that police officers are not required to enforce the law.

Maybe we should revisit the entire original purpose and charter of law enforcement instead of tearing off chunks that the extortionists don't like.

Posted by: deplorable unperson - Black Lives Matter is a terrorist organization at July 01, 2020 04:01 PM (luzVb)

76 Qualified immunity is judge-made law that does not (1) prevent frivolous lawsuits nor (2) provide notice thru "clearly established law" of what constitutes excessive force. It's bullshit legislation from the bench. It allows bad cops to continue in circulation. It immunizes the bad conduct that started these riots in the first place. The city/county is only liable if the officer is liable so it's not like you can sue just the city or county. And the city/county is vicariously liable for torts of an officer. The officer's not out of pocket for negligent conduct. Mike Braun is clearly an asshole because he was unable to articulate
these facts and is just going along with the Dem-pleasing status quo.

Not to worry, though. Thanks to the Soros-backed organzations orchestrating the riots, no one is seriously considering any law enforcement reform anymore since they've changed the topic at least two times from the original concern. Everyone has retreated back to their political corners and QI is going to continue to be the law of the land.

Posted by: AMartel at July 01, 2020 04:02 PM (WWgnZ)

77 What state does Braun represent?

Posted by: dantesed at July 01, 2020 04:02 PM (88xKn)

78 I have been on record for decades that I think qualified immunity, as it is currently judicial constructed, is an abomination.

I am open, nay, I welcome a discussion as to what should be done when public officials engage in egregious acts.

I think there is a major disconnect here. When I state that I think qualified immunity should be abolished as a judicial creation and should instead be statutory, I should start by saying we are talking about liability for actions that are well outside the scope of regular conduct.

When cops engage in a wrong house no knock raid and throw a flash bang grenade into a crib, then, no, they should not be immune from liability because their actions are outside the scope of regular conduct.

That is what I am discussing. And, note, that 1983 already provides, in theory, for personal liability on the part of government actors.

It is not about ree ree ree ree ree you don't want the cops to do their jobs. No, what I want is that for cops who exceeds their jobs to be held liable as they are already supposed to be under 1983.

The parameters and extent of how to implement that, including very legitimate concerns over litigation abuse, are matters open to fair discussion.

This post? Is not that.

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 04:02 PM (GbPPJ)

79 On the Federal level, congessmen don't give a shit about anbody but themselves, who pays them the most money via kickbacks and favors, who is blackmailing them, and who controls both parties. That's it. they are all worthless motherfuckers who are traitors.

Posted by: always ahead of the curve at July 01, 2020 04:02 PM (ozHKW)

80 So there needs to be a middle ground, because shitty cops use QI to continue being shitty cops without consequence, and shit governments continue being shit governments without consequence.

There has to be some mechanism to make authorities suffer for what their underlings do wrong, I agree. But every system has its weaknesses. Generally speaking, someone who gets a lot of complaints as a cop will not be promoted and will face a lot of grief from their bosses

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:02 PM (KZzsI)

81 Sounds like we should show up to their offices more often.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting terrorist in Nakatomi Tower at July 01, 2020 03:58 PM (LvTSG)

You should.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at July 01, 2020 04:02 PM (wCmLp)

82 I don't see an Amendment to the Constitution that says my Rights are gone if there is a bad flu.

Posted by: Romeo13 at July 01, 2020 03:56 PM (NgKpN)

It's a footnote in the 'For Better or Worse' clause

Posted by: Count de Monet at July 01, 2020 04:02 PM (q1Pj5)

83 Mike Braun has a CR rating of 90. He must be an expert at manipulating the system.
Posted by: Vic

They only score people on certain key votes. So Braun votes the right way on certain "slam dunk" votes. I have no idea how he votes at other times, but the indication from a lot of Congress people is that they all want to shower together after work.

It is largely all a put on....for us.

Posted by: Bozo Conservative....menace to society at July 01, 2020 04:02 PM (vcOmj)

84 Give us that bill, Mike, we'll just put it in the drawer with all the other things we stuff into bills.

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at July 01, 2020 04:03 PM (pbStR)

85 72 A great argument for having virtual sessions of Congress.

And, very likely, why Democrats are so very opposed to the idea, even in "a time of crisis" like now.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:01 PM (KZzsI)

Mail-in vote? You bet.
Virtual sessions of Congress? No way.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:03 PM (pmpob)

86 So there needs to be a middle ground, because shitty cops use QI to continue being shitty cops without consequence, and shit governments continue being shit governments without consequence.
Posted by: Gundo at July 01, 2020 04:00 PM (JwWso)

This, too, is the story of Teacher's Unions....

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at July 01, 2020 04:03 PM (PiwSw)

87 California Schools Can No Longer Suspend Elementary, Middle School Students For Disruptive Behavior

-
This'll work out well.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 01, 2020 04:03 PM (+y/Ru)

88 Somehow the repeat offenders are the worst ones who get to keep making offences. No idea how to weed them out.

Posted by: Skip at July 01, 2020 04:03 PM (6f16T)

89 84 Give us that bill, Mike, we'll just put it in the drawer with all the other things we stuff into bills.
Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at July 01, 2020 04:03 PM (pbStR)

I've got an idea where you can stuff this, Nancy.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:03 PM (pmpob)

90 Generally speaking, someone who gets a lot of
complaints as a cop will not be promoted and will face a lot of grief
from their bosses

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:02 PM (KZzsI)

Word

Posted by: Det Harry Callahan at July 01, 2020 04:04 PM (q1Pj5)

91 One by one, all of the people who are supposed to protect us have shown that they are feckless cowards. Governments, police, corporations, conservative media "warriors."

There is no one to protect us, except us.

===

Not feckless cowards. Collaborators and co-conspirators.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at July 01, 2020 04:04 PM (4BMGG)

92 What's worse. Go lookup "Warren v District of Columbia". I'll wait.

In a 4-3 decision, the District of Columbia Court of Appeals affirmed the trial courts' dismissal of the complaints against the District of Columbia and individual members of the Metropolitan Police Department based on the public duty doctrine ruling that "the duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists". The Court thus adopted the trial court's determination that no special relationship existed between the police and appellants, and therefore no specific legal duty existed between the police and the appellants.

Simply, the police are under no obligation to render live saving duties.

Posted by: SMOD at July 01, 2020 04:04 PM (3aI0K)

93 California Schools Can No Longer Suspend Elementary, Middle School Students For Disruptive Behavior

Private schools brace for a flood of student applications.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:04 PM (pmpob)

94 Naturally, ace, I think that my bill is a nice place to start but do you have any other suggestions for dealing with Schumer? Without my bill do you really think the eventual compromise piece of legislation that passes will have legally superfluous words and phrases like "freedom," "liberty" and "I'm not racist I swear" in it? I didn't think so.

Posted by: Mike Braun, (R-IN) at July 01, 2020 04:04 PM (ssz2a)

95 And please remember that "judges and lawyers and torts, oh my" also gave us the ruling that police officers are not required to enforce the law.

I think that police have to be able to show discretion as to when they are going to enforce a law or not (take the cop who pulls you over for speeding then lets you off with a warning). But there has to be a sliding scale where the greater the danger to public safety and order, the greater the justification for not enforcing the law.

That is, if you jaywalk, they don't have to justify just yelling at you. If you are rioting and burning, they have to show very strong, compelling justification for standing around doing nothing.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:04 PM (KZzsI)

96 The Encavening has only just begun

Posted by: Squishy Republocrat at July 01, 2020 04:04 PM (gPhq7)

97 This, too, is the story of Teacher's Unions....
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at July 01, 2020 04:03 PM (PiwSw)

Defund Public Schools!!!

Posted by: CN at July 01, 2020 04:04 PM (ONvIw)

98 ace, tell you what. You go tell that cuck Clarence Thomas that.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/18-1287_09m1.pdf

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 03:55 PM (GbPPJ)

I went and read it. Wanted to pimp the post.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 01, 2020 04:05 PM (gd9RK)

99 The biggest issue I've seen with qualified immunity is that lower courts will act like that even gives the department itself immunity from the consequences of their mistakes.

"We knocked down your door and trashed your house instead of the one on the warrant? Tough shit. We're immune".

Since qualified immunity was never established as a law, courts can make it mean whatever they want it to mean. Granted, courts do that now regardless. But only the radical ones do it with actual written law.

Posted by: Brian at July 01, 2020 04:05 PM (W8gE7)

100 I don't trust Tucker Carlson. He defended Jeff Sessions early on in the Trump admin and said Trump would be foolish to fire him. This was in 2017 when the Russia witch hunt could've been nipped in the bud. Tucker also personally Lobbied Trump into supporting the corona lockdown.
Posted by: Serious Cat

The witch hunt started when Trump fired Comey. That was Jared's advice. But go ahead and throw Sessions under the bus when he is the strongest Nationalist candidate we have running for the Senate and Congress right now.

Posted by: always ahead of the curve at July 01, 2020 04:05 PM (ozHKW)

101 Fuck me not the CR score bullshit again. McCain had something like a 90 score too. Howd that work out?

Posted by: Hotgas VIP Member at July 01, 2020 04:05 PM (SjAGT)

102 Was Not Was

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at July 01, 2020 04:06 PM (aKsyK)

103 One by one, all of the people who are supposed to protect us have shown
that they are feckless cowards. Governments, police, corporations,
conservative media "warriors."

There is no one to protect us, except us.

Stay home , stay safe!

Posted by: Your Chinese-Owned Grifting GOPe at July 01, 2020 04:06 PM (luzVb)

104 Well you can sue him: You sue the state or city that employs him
CO has a law that limits state liability to $250k iirc. If their actual liability is higher they just settle and they are done and you are screwed. They have killed people pushing boulders down mountains on cars, and just paid the limit.

That said I don't agree with Braun. at all.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 01, 2020 04:06 PM (r+sAi)

105 My first firm, a mid-size personal injury firm, was HEAVY into suing government agencies - the process is simple and adds very little - a few forms for notice - and youre on your way. The ONLY area we found trouble was when suing one of those f-cking politicians for screwing up and causing injury - good luck there, no touching that absolute immunity I assure you.

Posted by: Garth at July 01, 2020 04:06 PM (zHfzL)

106 I don't see an Amendment to the Constitution that says my Rights are gone if there is a bad flu.

They've got a penumbra for that.

Posted by: t-bird at July 01, 2020 04:07 PM (CTJwJ)

107 93
California Schools Can No Longer Suspend Elementary, Middle School Students For Disruptive Behavior

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:04 PM (pmpob)

A new opportunity for MS-13

Posted by: SMOD at July 01, 2020 04:07 PM (3aI0K)

108 Juneteenth a holiday? WTF? Now? Why not 75 years ago, 100 years ago, 7 years ago?

FFS.

MLK Day already is a stretch, but a much smaller one, and is entirely about the civil rights cause and history.

FFS.

Then again, zzzzzzz. I need to extinguish the inertial habits and framework that no longer apply to the US. It is, in fact, mostly as dumb, ignorant, emotional, irresponsible, and unworthy of respect as it obviously appears, much of the time.

Posted by: rhomboid at July 01, 2020 04:07 PM (El6T/)

109 "Hey, any chance this guy could be one of the questioners at the debates?"

There should be a minimum of 4 debates, with moderators alternately chosen by each campaign. Let Trump put Sean Hannity up there, too, just to hear the lamentations of their women.

Posted by: Paul at July 01, 2020 04:07 PM (PMxE5)

110 Generally speaking, someone who gets a lot of
complaints as a cop will not be promoted and will face a lot of grief from their bosses

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:02 PM (KZzsI)

This came up with Chauvin. Did he have a lot of complaints? Hard to say.

If a cop is patrolling in the ghetto, he'll a) probably have a lot of assholes to deal with, and b) said assholes will be highly prone to filing complaints as a way to get leverage out of their predicament.

OTOH, if a cop is patrolling Beverly Hills, or La Jolla, he might well put in 20 years without a complaint.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:07 PM (pmpob)

111 Make police unions illegal. Make the politicians *and the police* police the police.

That's the biggest leverage on 'bad cops'. Remove their protectors and incentivize them to clean up their own ranks.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at July 01, 2020 04:08 PM (UYvk0)

112 MLK Day already is a stretch, but a much smaller one, and is entirely about the civil rights cause and history.

Should be renamed "Plagiarism Appreciation Day."

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:08 PM (pmpob)

113 "And a city or state has much deeper pockets than a cop making $65,000 per year."
Not always true. New Orleans, for example, hasn't ever paid a judgement. Nothing in LA's state constitution says they have to. I know someone who was run over by a city vehicle driven by a drunk city employee 30 years ago and still hasn't been paid after winning the lawsuit.
Many municipalities are the same way. There's no way to force payment.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at July 01, 2020 04:08 PM (CQ3Qb)

114 I am open, nay, I welcome a discussion as to what should be done when public officials engage in egregious acts.

I think there is a major disconnect here. When I state that I think qualified immunity should be abolished as a judicial creation and should instead be statutory, I should start by saying we are talking about liability for actions that are well outside the scope of regular conduct.

The underlying issue, IMHO, is that all of these discussions are band-aids on a gaping wound: the incompetence of elected officials, especially at the local level, combined with a general apathy by voters towards replacing them.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at July 01, 2020 04:08 PM (wCmLp)

115 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - China is asshoe! at July 01, 2020 04:09 PM (Zz0t1)

116 Sovereign immunity is the real problem, I think. I can't sue an agent of the state, but I can sue the state. Fine, okay.

But I *can't* sue the state, either, in most cases. They have sovereign immunity. Suing the state for depriving you of your rights is harder the Chinese calculus.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at July 01, 2020 04:09 PM (hYcqw)

117 When someone from the electric company accidentally starts a fire in your house, you don't sue the linesman who did it. You sue the fucking electric company. - Ace

No, but this is how it works in Professional Engineering. You are liable separate from your organization because you put your name on it.

Posted by: GeoSTI at July 01, 2020 04:09 PM (w1GWh)

118 Who do I sue for the lack of page breaks in comments?

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at July 01, 2020 04:09 PM (CQ3Qb)

119 This will only make his ratings soar even more. I'm sure the CoC gang has a target on him as we speak

Posted by: Pete Seria at July 01, 2020 04:09 PM (7ZQe3)

120 One bad cop knelt on one bad actor's neck with disastrous optics and the country has to be turned inside out?

Makes no sense.

Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:09 PM (gtdYu)

121 There should be a minimum of 4 debates, with
moderators alternately chosen by each campaign. Let Trump put Sean
Hannity up there, too, just to hear the lamentations of their women.

Posted by: Paul at July 01, 2020 04:07 PM (PMxE5)

In a 90-minute debate, Hannity will be speaking for 84 of them.

Posted by: Count de Monet at July 01, 2020 04:09 PM (q1Pj5)

122 Dear Republicans.

We did not elect you to make friends.

We did not elect you to reach across the isle.

We did not elect you to pander to leftist ideologies.

We elected you to defeat the left and their agenda.

Period.

STEP THE FUCK UP, assholes.

Posted by: Sponge - China is asshoe! at July 01, 2020 04:10 PM (Zz0t1)

123 100
I don't trust Tucker Carlson. He defended Jeff Sessions
Sessions should have resigned on his own.Only a fool would not have realized that he could only help his President by resigning

Posted by: SMOD at July 01, 2020 04:10 PM (3aI0K)

124 Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, Texas at July 01, 2020 03:56 PM (SRRAx)

Hi Teresa... first time I've seen you since the other night. I just wanted to say that I clipped your words of reassurance on here to my wife and they helped a great deal. She actually brought up how much it helped a couple days later. So thank you.

Posted by: ... at July 01, 2020 04:10 PM (B8RmS)

125 -
--
Braun's office is insisting that he isn't pulling the bill yet.

---
Face-saving gesture. What he's pulling right now is his dick.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 03:53 PM

--------------------

That guy sucks. Remember his idea to make everyone wear name-tags?

Posted by: David Dinkins at July 01, 2020 04:10 PM (pMGkg)

126 In general you can not get insurance to protect you against being sued for intentional torts. It is void as against public policy, for the simple reason we do not want people to be able to buy a license to commit wrongful acts against others. You can get insurance protecting you against suits for your own negligence, errors, omissions, malpractice, etc., but not for intentional wrongdoing.

Posted by: Conrad O'Connor at July 01, 2020 04:10 PM (rkta3)

127 What really pisses me off is, none of us have a 6-figure pension guaranteed for life, a house fully paid for in the nicest neighborhoods, bank accounts with 7 figures-- but we're being told we must fight:
- the media
- the unions
- the schools
- the colleges and universities
- Hollywood
- every Democrat with access to the internet

While they complain that it's too much to ask for ... anything.

These assholes can't point to ONE conservative victory they made happen.

Gun rights? We filed those lawsuits.
Abortion? We fight at the state level while their federal judges overturn
Taxes? Regulations? Voter ID? Deficit spending? Welfare reform?
"Well uh ... we uh ... the thing is ... you see ... I'm a Christian and uh ... I've wrote a oped and uh ... look at the time!"

Posted by: RoyalOil at July 01, 2020 04:10 PM (aO8Gd)

128 No problem at all with Juneteenth.* Call it "Independence from Democrats day".

* Unless the Dems, media, and their BLM shock troops use it to divide us. It's a legit holiday that all Americans can get behind....as long as it's used to unite us!!!

Posted by: Tonic Dog at July 01, 2020 04:10 PM (UYvk0)

129 You may wanna sit down for this one:

@FreeBeacon

Former staffers from Mitt Romney's 2012 presidential campaign are abandoning the Republican Party and working to elect former vice president Joe Biden.
Via @AndrewStilesUSA

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 01, 2020 04:10 PM (L6ZYH)

130 One bad cop knelt on one bad actor's neck with disastrous optics and the country has to be turned inside out?

Makes no sense.

Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:09 PM (gtdYu)

Almost like it was the excuse and not the reason. Almost

Posted by: ... at July 01, 2020 04:10 PM (B8RmS)

131

How in the hell did we get here so quickly.

Hate to sound conspiratorial, but...

Posted by: Rev. Dr. E Buzz Miller, Lesbian at July 01, 2020 04:10 PM (lg/F7)

132 Hey, speaking of immunity, when are we going to see the list of Hill staffers who were paid -- with our tax money -- to keep their mouths shut after being sexually harassed (or worse?) by a member of Congress???

And while we're at it: how about we stop allowing Congress to exempt themselves from every law they pass???

Posted by: Lizzy at July 01, 2020 04:11 PM (bDqIh)

133 One bad cop knelt on one bad actor's neck with disastrous optics and the country has to be turned inside out?

Makes no sense.
Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:09 PM (gtdYu)
+++++++++++++
No, it doesn't. And that isn't what happened.

There was a plan to misbehave this summer. Big plans and widespread. Any trigger would do.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at July 01, 2020 04:11 PM (hYcqw)

134 BabylonBee: Trump Generously Offers To Give Biden 30-Minute Head Start On All Debate Responses

Posted by: SMOD at July 01, 2020 04:11 PM (3aI0K)

135 They already combined Lincoln and Washington's birthdays to one Holiday.

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 01, 2020 04:11 PM (SEnIW)

136 That Langford guy is wrapped up in all sorts of leftist BS in the Senate.

Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at July 01, 2020 04:11 PM (nAiE/)

137 "We will have to just straight-up tell them what to do, with the threat that we will boot their weakling cvck asses out of office if they don't listen."

100%

But tell me by what method do I make them understand this.

Posted by: Braenyard at July 01, 2020 04:11 PM (Zktzy)

138 CO has a law that limits state liability to $250k iirc. If their actual liability is higher they just settle and they are done and you are screwed.

**********

Immunity or no immunity, limits on liability exist everywhere. NOTHING will change, they'll just develop a work around. Again, nothing will change in policing by a change to legal immunity.

Posted by: Garth at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (zHfzL)

139 >>You may wanna sit down for this one:

@FreeBeacon

Former staffers from Mitt Romney's 2012 presidential campaign are abandoning the Republican Party and working to elect former vice president Joe Biden.
Via @AndrewStilesUSA
- - - -

You forgot the "/sarc" tag.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (bDqIh)

140 BabylonBee: Cities Protecting Statues By Disguising Them As Karl Marx

Posted by: SMOD at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (3aI0K)

141

Former staffers from Mitt Romney's 2012 presidential campaign are abandoning the Republican Party and working to elect former vice president Joe Biden.

--------

Good news. That's the end of Biden.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (oJN+m)

142 Saw Tuca's interview with Braun the morn after. Could not look up his number and leave him a message any quicker. POS.

Posted by: RustyG at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (U8le1)

143

No, ace, QI does not just protect the cops in their personal capacity. It eliminates any liability wherever Monell liability cannot be established. Monell liability is how you can sue municipalities (cities, counties, and school districts in SOME states) if there was a policy, custom, or practice of ignoring the rights of citizens. Proving that "pattern or practice" is a massive bar to recovery. It also does not apply to state entities, meaning that if there is no individual liability for a state employee, there is no liability period.

Having done Section 1983 law for over 20 years, with at least 5 published opinions in various circuits, I can firmly state---unequivocally---that QI is an abomination. Read up on the impact of Emmons in QI cases and see how it is now a virtual blanket immunity wherever even the slightest factual difference (it applies an unarmed man is shot sitting up versus lying down) can be shown.

Posted by: imp at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (SFOr6)

144 I can't think of too many lawsuits filed by individuals that aren't about vengeance.

Posted by: DrC at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (llGBY)

145 *Lankford not Langford.

Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (nAiE/)

146 Makes no sense.
Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:09 PM (gtdYu)
+++++++++++++
No, it doesn't. And that isn't what happened.

There was a plan to misbehave this summer. Big plans and widespread. Any trigger would do.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at July 01, 2020 04:11 PM (hYcqw)
---------------------------------

The summer's just begun and they have more plans.

Posted by: Braenyard at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (Zktzy)

147 Tucker Carlson must be cancelled! All of his supporters must be cancelled. All right thinking people agree with me.

Posted by: Maggie Haberman, junior expert at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (cMhK0)

148 Why don't they celebrate the actual signing of the Emancipation Proclamation instead of the application of it in Texas, 18 months later?

Posted by: Sponge - China is asshoe! at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (Zz0t1)

149
What state does Braun represent?
Posted by: dantesed

Indiana

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at July 01, 2020 04:13 PM (aKsyK)

150 BabylonBee: With Statues Gone, Pigeons Forced To Poop On Rioters

Posted by: SMOD at July 01, 2020 04:13 PM (3aI0K)

151 It's somewhat disappointing that it counts as a triumph to get a Republican senator to drop a bill. I don't remember the first two years very well, when Republicans had the majority in both chambers, but no legislative triumphs come to mind either.
Sure, they didn't have a filibuster-proof majority and some people in the middle were unreliable, but somehow Democrats manage to pass laws even under these conditions.

Posted by: PG at July 01, 2020 04:13 PM (iqCkn)

152 Former staffers from Mitt Romney's 2012 presidential campaign are abandoning the Republican Party and working to elect former vice president Joe Biden.

--------

Good news. That's the end of Biden.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (oJN+m)

ORCA !!!

Posted by: Adriane the Legle Beagle Critic ... at July 01, 2020 04:13 PM (LPnfS)

153 My first firm, a mid-size personal injury firm, was HEAVY into suing government agencies - the process is simple and adds very little - a few forms for notice - and youre on your way. The ONLY area we found trouble was when suing one of those f-cking politicians for screwing up and causing injury - good luck there, no touching that absolute immunity I assure you.
Posted by: Garth at July 01, 2020 04:06 PM (zHfzL)

I haven't worked there in about a decade but when I was working in PA, the PA courts interpreted the exceptions to sovereign immunity so that even though you could, in theory, sue PennDOT for designing a road in a dangerous condition, that condition must be the sole cause of the accident.

So if it was a fatal vehicle accident with only the driver in the car, then there was absolute immunity even when PennDOT's own documentation stated that the road in question was dangerously designed because the driver could have been distracted or an insect could have flown in the car and the driver went off the road due to that or any other reason at all. Doesn't matter that the accident occurred at 2:00 p.m. and every single toxicology test came back clean and the person had been seen talking to people and was completely awake and coherent not 25 minutes prior to the accident. Nope. Since there is no witness then it could possibly have been something else, thus immunity.

As you can imagine, that fact pattern is not theoretical.

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 04:13 PM (GbPPJ)

154 Tucker Carlson must be cancelled! All of his supporters must be cancelled. All right thinking people agree with me.
Posted by: Maggie Haberman, junior expert at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (cMhK0)

I second this. He's a menace to society.

Posted by: Jen Rubin - Uber Conservative at July 01, 2020 04:13 PM (Zz0t1)

155 There should be a minimum of 4 debates, with
moderators alternately chosen by each campaign. Let Trump put Sean
Hannity up there, too, just to hear the lamentations of their women.

Posted by: Paul at July 01, 2020 04:07 PM (PMxE5)

I say again: THREE moderators. One from each of the campaigns, who poses questions to the opposing candidate, and one whose sole responsibility is to keep the candidates to time.

That way, no leaking of questions, no cheap shots by the moderators, no nothing.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:13 PM (pmpob)

156 - - - -

You forgot the "/sarc" tag.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (bDqIh)

The nut is, It's true.

Posted by: Braenyard at July 01, 2020 04:14 PM (Zktzy)

157 His point, summed up, is that Republican office-holders are weakling
cowards and pussies who are "pleasers" by nature and will do whatever
they think will "please" people. We cannot expect leadership from them;
they are weak and stupid.

yeah, well, this is why government wasn't supposed to have much power in the first place. nothing special about the republic office-holders.

Posted by: Anachronda at July 01, 2020 04:14 PM (sGtp+)

158 137 "We will have to just straight-up tell them what to do, with the threat that we will boot their weakling cvck asses out of office if they don't listen."

100%

But tell me by what method do I make them understand this.

Posted by: Braenyard at July 01, 2020 04:11 PM (Zktzy)

==========

According to some who work in state legislatures, actually showing up to the legislators' offices and telling them what in great enough numbers that we drown out the other side.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting terrorist in Nakatomi Tower at July 01, 2020 04:14 PM (LvTSG)

159 Buy now, before you can't.

Posted by: America's Ammo Manufacturers at July 01, 2020 04:14 PM (cMhK0)

160 Colorado Alex at 6: "There's an argument that this would have a positive effect, as insurance companies refuse to insure cops with too many complaints..."

There's a much more obvious, valid, and important argument to be made, that this stripping of qualified immunity from police is being done precisely BECAUSE the Democrats know that it will thrust insurance companies into a new lucrative field, and insurance companies are (after public sector unions and lawyers) the third-biggest contributors to the Democrat Party.

So this is just another wealth transfer from the serfs to their Democrat overlords.

Posted by: Pastafarian at July 01, 2020 04:14 PM (VzVA+)

161 >>>There has to be some mechanism to make authorities suffer for what their underlings do wrong.

There is, there always is.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 01, 2020 04:14 PM (1g7ch)

162 We are basically two separate countries now that will never reconcile. It's a couple who hate each other still living under the same roof . Only a matter of time before one kills the other.

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 01, 2020 04:14 PM (SEnIW)

163 BabylonBee: Monkey With Typewriter Produces Reasonable Alternative To Green New Deal

Posted by: SMOD at July 01, 2020 04:14 PM (3aI0K)

164 Generally speaking, someone who gets a lot of
complaints as a cop will not be promoted and will face a lot of grief
from their bosses

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor

How often do they get a "Thank you officer, that was nicely done" from a criminal.

Posted by: DaveA at July 01, 2020 04:14 PM (FhXTo)

165
There's an argument that this would have a positive effect, as insurance companies refuse to insure cops with too many complaints, or demand outrageous premiums. This would drive them out of the business. That said, I don't think that it would have enough of an effect to cause much change overall.
---
Because group health insurance makes the fattest, drug addicts
and smokers clean up ....

That's what we'd get-- group liability insurance paid for by an entity who can extract unlimited funds via taxes coverage negotiated by those who don't pay the premium

Posted by: RoyalOil at July 01, 2020 04:14 PM (aO8Gd)

166 Posted by: Lizzy

********

Hey, you shut up over there, we ...... are.......and.....what?

Posted by: Joe 2020 at July 01, 2020 04:15 PM (zHfzL)

167 I think Braun is a turd but I didn't think Tucker was as much of a slam dunk as everyone else does. Tucker did his usual shtick and it was funny with a few zingers but he didn't have to go very deep in the weeds with the guy.
Then again I'm a nonconformist.

Posted by: ... at July 01, 2020 04:15 PM (B8RmS)

168 I say again: THREE moderators. One from each of the campaigns, who poses questions to the opposing candidate, and one whose sole responsibility is to keep the candidates to time.

That way, no leaking of questions, no cheap shots by the moderators, no nothing.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:13 PM (pmpob)

I don't need the debates. I know who these two candidates are.

If you don't know who you're voting for, you ain't black.

Posted by: Sponge - China is asshoe! at July 01, 2020 04:16 PM (Zz0t1)

169 Don't have to. He's not your rotary league captain or your boss.

Further, the standard you're asking for here is perfection. Guess how that turns out?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 01, 2020 04:01 PM (L6ZYH)

Perfect? How about just good? Tucker strikes as a bit wild eyed. He was literally hyperventilating on air over the dangers of COVID. And I think he is a dick. Early on in his show, when liberals would still come on to debate, I saw how in the rare instance the lib would make a good point , Carson would flippantly dismiss it with "uh-huh, sure". Rubbed me wrong way and made me realize his show was just his own editorializing and not for debate.

And by the way, pollster Richard Barris is saying that Biden is not getting enthusiastic support from Black voters. The GOP and Trump going full anti-BLM is what Biden needs to get those voters motivated to show up in November.

Posted by: Serious Cat at July 01, 2020 04:16 PM (zqs/f)

170 Having done Section 1983 law for over 20 years, with at least 5 published opinions in various circuits, I can firmly state---unequivocally---that QI is an abomination. Read up on the impact of Emmons in QI cases and see how it is now a virtual blanket immunity wherever even the slightest factual difference (it applies an unarmed man is shot sitting up versus lying down) can be shown.
Posted by: imp at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (SFOr6)

Thank you. I read the post and was screaming that's not how this works, that's not how any of this works!

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 04:16 PM (GbPPJ)

171 A McDonald's burger lesson for Sen. Braun...

https://twitter.com/kidghastly/status/
1277953597465075713

...from the sidebar thread.

Posted by: andycanuck at July 01, 2020 04:16 PM (TZi47)

172 >>> ace, tell you what. You go tell that cuck Clarence Thomas that.

Well Alex. Speaking from personal experience let Me tell you I've actually seen it. The US made commanding officers personally responsible for environmental regulations.

Sure it changed behavior. It made any environmentally sensitive activity require seventeen checks and verifications to complete. And compromised some operations as commanders refused to take any chances that would cost them thousands personally. Yay? I guess that cut the number of Environmental accidents down?

The end result was, if it was even the smallest detail was missing, don't do it.

If that's how we want police use of force to be fine. But recognize it changes the default of every policeman from "intervene" To "wait till the dust settles".

Police go from a law enforcement agency to a mop up after the violence/haul the survivors to jail department.

Posted by: mikethemoose at July 01, 2020 04:16 PM (Y6UV7)

173 There was a plan to misbehave this summer. Big plans and widespread. Any trigger would do.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at July 01, 2020 04:11 PM (hYcqw)

That's my presumption, too.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (pmpob)

174 ==========

According to some who work in state legislatures, actually showing up to the legislators' offices and telling them what in great enough numbers that we drown out the other side.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting terrorist in Nakatomi Tower at July 01, 2020 04:14 PM (LvTSG)
--------------------------------

Like the T-Party did?

Posted by: Braenyard at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (Zktzy)

175 Posted by: Garth at July 01, 2020 04:06 PM (zHfzL)

The statue of limitations are usually very short. Like 90 days instead of two years.

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (SEnIW)

176 ormer staffers from Mitt Romney's 2012 presidential campaign are abandoning the Republican Party and working to elect former vice president Joe Biden.
Via @AndrewStilesUSA
- - - -

What does this mean anyway? Didn't people like The Dick Wilson and Ana Cabrera Bananna previously work on GOP campaigns?

Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (gtdYu)

177 162 We are basically two separate countries now....

***********

The last time that happened, it was painful but good overcame evil. We are ready over here......

Posted by: Joe 2020 at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (zHfzL)

178 BUT BUT BUT that Pussy tough guy Tucker skeered a Senator

Posted by: Ghost Of Qassem Soleimani at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (S79EU)

179 Absolutely bullshit! Obergruppenfurher Tom Wolfe had just decided that everyone in Pennsylvania must wear a mask if they leave their homes

Posted by: Just here for the jokes at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (Izzlo)

180 According to this report, the NBA will allow its players to replace the last name on the back of their jerseys with a statement on "social justice." To me, this is more offensive than permitting a one-time gesture -- kneeling, a clinched fist, whatever -- at the beginning of an athletic contest.

LeBron STFU

Posted by: SMOD at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (3aI0K)

181 Just remember, your children need liberty to grow and prosper! Democrats, in the Propaganda Press and in the Antifa storm trooper corps (especially there), want to take away liberty. Just ask them!

Posted by: Tree Of Liberty Gardening Club at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (cMhK0)

182 The National FOP sent him a letter reminding Braun that had not, in any way, endorsed his bill or his position.

Posted by: Nick in Tallahassee at July 01, 2020 04:18 PM (svbBD)

183

Not to mention, I would hazard a guess that no cop has ever gone bankrupt from a Section 1983 suit where he wasn't further convicted of a crime against the victim. Virtually all police are indemnified by the municipality's insurance carrier (and they all have them, even if self-insured they have "adjusters" and the like) through union contract.

There may be exceptions to this rule (very small departments, non-union departments), but I haven't seen them. I would welcome counter-examples so that I could learn about them.

Posted by: imp at July 01, 2020 04:18 PM (SFOr6)

184 Having done Section 1983 law for over 20 years, with at least 5 published opinions in various circuits, I can firmly state---unequivocally---that QI is an abomination. Read up on the impact of Emmons in QI cases and see how it is now a virtual blanket immunity wherever even the slightest factual difference (it applies an unarmed man is shot sitting up versus lying down) can be shown.
Posted by: imp at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (SFOr6)

But Tucker tore the bark off that guy, didn't you see? Ace did, so now the matter's settled.

Posted by: Xander Crews at July 01, 2020 04:18 PM (q6o8z)

185 I don't need the debates. I know who these two candidates are.

If you don't know who you're voting for, you ain't black.
Posted by: Sponge - China is asshoe! at July 01, 2020 04:16 PM (Zz0t1)

Of course. That's true of everyone here. But we need votes from people who are, as yet, inexplicably undecided.

Yeah, I don't get it either, but they're there.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:19 PM (pmpob)

186 174 ==========

According to some who work in state legislatures, actually showing up to the legislators' offices and telling them what in great enough numbers that we drown out the other side.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting terrorist in Nakatomi Tower at July 01, 2020 04:14 PM (LvTSG)
--------------------------------

Like the T-Party did?
Posted by: Braenyard at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (Zktzy)

==========

Well, it's certainly better than bleating about here and expecting our elected officials to hear us.

But remember, the Republican Party did at least voice support for Tea Party ideals for a while.

It doesn't need to be a mass movement with protests, just people showing up to offices regularly to voice their opinions directly to the legislators' staff and even the legislator themselves.

It's better than not hearing from us at all.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting terrorist in Nakatomi Tower at July 01, 2020 04:19 PM (LvTSG)

187 >>The nut is, It's true.

Yeah, I believe it -- just don't need to sit down to hear ot, as if it were shocking

. After watching McCain's own campaign set about destroying Palin *before the election* it's not shocking to hear an alleged GOP campaign person is siding with the Democrats. This is more the norm.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 01, 2020 04:20 PM (bDqIh)

188 McDonalds. Pimping Bubba Wallace, yet he STILL has no primary sponsor.

LULZ GF.

Posted by: Sponge - China is asshoe! at July 01, 2020 04:20 PM (Zz0t1)

189 175
The statue of limitations are usually very short.

so our statues of our beloved empress.

Posted by: Anachronda at July 01, 2020 04:20 PM (sGtp+)

190 It too literally two days to kill Aunt Jemima and the Cream of Wheat dude, one week to practically make Junteenth a Federal Holiday, two weeks to defund police from proposal to "done"

What else?

Before Social Media, things like this would take MONTHS--and might never happen.

Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:20 PM (gtdYu)

191 Of course. That's true of everyone here. But we need votes from people who are, as yet, inexplicably undecided.

Yeah, I don't get it either, but they're there.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:19 PM (pmpob)

Yeah, it's a good point.

Posted by: Sponge - China is asshoe! at July 01, 2020 04:20 PM (Zz0t1)

192 279 except rioters in philly

Posted by: CN at July 01, 2020 04:20 PM (ONvIw)

193 184 Having done Section 1983 law for over 20 years, with at least 5 published opinions in various circuits, I can firmly state---unequivocally---that QI is an abomination. Read up on the impact of Emmons in QI cases and see how it is now a virtual blanket immunity wherever even the slightest factual difference (it applies an unarmed man is shot sitting up versus lying down) can be shown.
Posted by: imp at July 01, 2020 04:12 PM (SFOr6)

But Tucker tore the bark off that guy, didn't you see? Ace did, so now the matter's settled.

Posted by: Xander Crews at July 01, 2020 04:18 PM (q6o8z)

==========

If we're going to attack qualified immunity, let's not start with the police. How about federal prosecutors?

We'll run it as a pilot and see how things shape out.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting terrorist in Nakatomi Tower at July 01, 2020 04:20 PM (LvTSG)

194 I watched that segment and about threw up. The guy is a pussy of the first order.

O/T but I'd no idea there is no ammo to buy out there.

Hoped to get some 38 special and .357 hardball, but it's like the Days of Obama out there.

Posted by: Les Kinetic at July 01, 2020 04:20 PM (+fPHo)

195 If you're going to use the agent question to preserve QI, then cities need to be able to sue dirty cops when they believe they're not actually acting on behalf of the city. And if they're unionized, then there's an implicitly adversarial relationship between the city and its employees which would seem to dilute claims of agency. Maybe it needs to be either-or; QI, or unions, but not both.

Right now, cops abuse taxpaying citizens at their own whim, the city gets sued, and the victims get paid out of their own pockets? Great system. The people who did wrong (cops and city alike) lose nothing, and have no incentive to change.

And morally, qualified immunity has to be genuinely qualified. If applying chokeholds is a legitimate, city-supported tactic, and an officer does that improperly but not maliciously and kills somebody, perhaps the city should be required to do a better job training its agents. If a cop robs someone at gunpoint, rapes someone during a traffic stop, or straight-up murders someone on the job and the plants a drop gun, he doesn't get to hide behind "well, the city should have trained me not to commit felonies". We don't need ten thousand little Chris Wray police chiefs.

Posted by: perilisk at July 01, 2020 04:21 PM (9p+wn)

196

Thank you. I read the post and was screaming that's not how this works, that's not how any of this works!
Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria

I thing we both know where ace is coming from, but QI is an issue (like 1983 law itself) where the words are simple but they contain layers upon layers of complexity. I love Tucker, but I have to just fast-forward when he starts talking about this.

Being pro-police is not coextensive with wanting to maintain the current iteration of qualified immunity, nor should it be.

Posted by: imp at July 01, 2020 04:21 PM (SFOr6)

197 >>> that QI is an abomination.

A sound argument for changing QI. A terrible argument for abolishing it.

Posted by: mikethemoose at July 01, 2020 04:22 PM (Y6UV7)

198 my dept will only defend us if we follow the applicable laws and dept policies. If we do not, we are on our own. It seems to me that this is a backdoor attempt to get rid of police.

Posted by: RaiderJoe at July 01, 2020 04:22 PM (49Kui)

199 Who do I sue for the lack of page breaks in comments? <<<<<<<
NPR

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 01, 2020 04:22 PM (r+sAi)

200 Responsibility for bad behavior in policing has become a venn diagram where none of the circles overlap with that term.

Cops are not personally responsible because of qualified immunity, unless they went against procedure.

OK, so what if they went against procedure? Well there the union protects them with rules that mean the worst that happens is a couple weeks paid leave while most violations are investigated. Then better training.

Some cities have come up with citizens boards, but that is just another group of corrupt a--holes on the grift.

And if they follow procedures, well in egregious cases there is a payout which never solves anything but makes some j---offs family rich because he got killed while high and resisting.

The problem is a three legged stool, and you can try to kick out any of them but it will not solve anything since law and order is setting on that stool and removing a leg will only lead to chaos.

If you want to fix the problem you need to solve the problem of violent people spending their days stoned and idle. How come some felon just out of prison has a car and money for booze, and no family to keep him from falling asleep in the drive through? Society failed a dozen times before dumping the problem on the Police with a thug who thinks it is a good idea to grab the tazer and run.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at July 01, 2020 04:22 PM (LWu6U)

201 Just wow. Not to go OT, but OT.

I just waded into twatter to see WTF was going on.

And there is my f*ing EX sister in law.

I've mentioned before (ad nauseam) this piece of work for decades has traveled the US, brokering baby parts. Truly evil shit. And, in her warped mind, she's got an excuse for everything.

If anything good came from a divorce where I lost everything, having to act nice to this person on Christmas or Thanksgiving is no longer something I'm forced to do.

https://tinyurl.com/y9poql5z

Sickening.

Posted by: clutch cargo at July 01, 2020 04:22 PM (8B6Ng)

202 According to this report, the NBA will allow its players to replace the last name on the back of their jerseys with a statement on "social justice." To me, this is more offensive than permitting a one-time gesture -- kneeling, a clinched fist, whatever -- at the beginning of an athletic contest.

LeBron STFU
Posted by: SMOD at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (3aI0K)

Goodbye NBA. I was one of the few here that still watched them but they can fuck off to China.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 01, 2020 04:22 PM (y7DUB)

203 If a cop is patrolling in the ghetto, he'll a) probably have a lot of assholes to deal with, and b) said assholes will be highly prone to filing complaints as a way to get leverage out of their predicament.

All true, but... if someone is getting more than the average number, that's not going to elude official notice. Again, the system isn't perfect -- no system is -- and it could use some repairing, but its not as bad as people think, and radical solutions like opening police up to constant legal harassment is worse than what we have now.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:23 PM (KZzsI)

204 According to this report, the NBA will allow its players to replace the last name on the back of their jerseys with a statement on "social justice." To me, this is more offensive than permitting a one-time gesture -- kneeling, a clinched fist, whatever -- at the beginning of an athletic contest.

LeBron STFU
Posted by: SMOD at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (3aI0K)

"...And the shot bounces off the backboard, rebounded by I Can't Comprehend Statistics, pass ahead to Meaningless Buzzwords, behind the back pass to Racial Hatred, he's guarded by White Guilt, fakes to Zimbabwe Clone..."

Posted by: Vanya at July 01, 2020 04:23 PM (R7nPl)

205 LeBron STFU
Posted by: SMOD at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (3aI0K)

Lessee, a freakishly tall high school graduate who sole accomplishment in life is his ability to throw a ball through a ring.

Sure, teach us, O Wise One.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:23 PM (pmpob)

206 If we want a new official holiday it should not be Juneteenth. It should be either the day of the emancipation proclamation September 22 or the day the 13th Amendment was passed January 31.

If the latter we should strike MLK Jr day since the left doesn't believe in his peaceful, judge a man by the content of his character stuff anyway.

Posted by: 18-1 at July 01, 2020 04:23 PM (qlFIA)

207 Well Alex. Speaking from personal experience let Me tell you I've actually seen it. The US made commanding officers personally responsible for environmental regulations.

Sure it changed behavior. It made any environmentally sensitive activity require seventeen checks and verifications to complete. And compromised some operations as commanders refused to take any chances that would cost them thousands personally. Yay? I guess that cut the number of Environmental accidents down?

The end result was, if it was even the smallest detail was missing, don't do it.

If that's how we want police use of force to be fine. But recognize it changes the default of every policeman from "intervene" To "wait till the dust settles".

Police go from a law enforcement agency to a mop up after the violence/haul the survivors to jail department.

Posted by: mikethemoose at July 01, 2020 04:16 PM (Y6UV7)

Well, Mike, did you read the opinion? It's not that long. And it's Thomas, so it is written in human, not legal.

So, is it your opinion that Justice Thomas is on the side of BLM and wants to get rid of cops? Because that is the specific allegation to which I was responding.

As far as the rest of what you said, please see my further comments re: having an adult discussion about the costs and benefits thereof.

Namaste.

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 04:23 PM (GbPPJ)

208 TuCa is mortal. He makes mistakes. But he and Mark Levin are the only shows on Fox (besides The Greg Gutfeld Show, which is comedy) worth watching.

Posted by: JAS at July 01, 2020 04:23 PM (2BZBZ)

209
If you're undecided, you probably shouldn't vote.

But also, voting doesn't matter. There's not much point to any of this.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 01, 2020 04:23 PM (oJN+m)

210 65 According to the Sydney Powell interview yesterday, Federal Prosecutors have Absolute Immunity ...

Why don't we start on reducing that to qualified?
Posted by: Adriane the Legle Beagle Critic ... at July 01, 2020 03:59 PM (LPnfS)

======

I don't know what it will take to rein in the Andrew Weissman's and Van Grack's in our government, but we need to find something.

Most of us are not as clean as Flynn and we can't afford someone like Powell.

Posted by: jc at July 01, 2020 04:23 PM (PuMKG)

211 Someone should ask LeBron what slogan China is telling him to put on his jersey.

Posted by: 18-1 at July 01, 2020 04:24 PM (qlFIA)

212 If you were a cop, and you realized that every single arrest could wind up costing you literally hundreds of thousands of dollars -- your house, your car, your kids' college funds -- how many arrests do you think you'd make?

Try being an engineer. All those things are literally on the line every time I pick up the phone or draft a letter. People always complain how much a simple letter report ends up costing, but what they don't realize is how much is on the line if I screw up a word or phrase.

Posted by: moon_over_vermont at July 01, 2020 04:24 PM (kUmUV)

213 >>I don't need the debates. I know who these two candidates are.

If you don't know who you're voting for, you ain't black.
- - - -

First, the American people deserve a debate between the two candidates. I do not the Democrats should be let off the hook for their poor choice of Biden. hey need to own every bit of mental incapacity he would display over the course of an hour or two of debate.

He's not running for local school board FFS, he needs to demonstrate he is capable of debating Trump.

Also, each candidate deserves to be able to question each other about their respective policies in person.

Having no debates will set a bad precedent.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 01, 2020 04:24 PM (bDqIh)

214 I am okay with having a Juneteenth holiday, but its... odd to make this national, when its strictly a Texas thing. Emancipation day was weeks earlier, all Juneteenth is, is when that news reached the last slave state.

Its like celebrating not VE-Day, but the day Idaho learned about it. Its just weird.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:24 PM (KZzsI)

215 A littlw-known fact: The Emancipation Proclamation did NOT free all the slaves.

Posted by: Cliff Claven at July 01, 2020 04:25 PM (2BZBZ)

216 Pa's deaths have been down every week since April.
Got Karen this afternoon
"Masks are required in the common areas "

Posted by: Skip at July 01, 2020 04:25 PM (6f16T)

217 198: Similar to other malpractice..follow the rules and regs and you're ok, including state and federal. A bad outcome is not always someone's fault.

Posted by: CN at July 01, 2020 04:25 PM (ONvIw)

218

But Tucker tore the bark off that guy, didn't you see? Ace did, so now the matter's settled.

Posted by: Xander Crews

I won't fault either ace or Tucker. The Braun guy was a shit-eating retard. I wouldn't trust his QI reform bill farther than I could throw him after one of his nightly DC steakhouse meals.

But that doesn't mean we as conservatives (or right-populists) should support the doctrine of "so sad, too bad, the government blew up your house and murdered your family, but they did it a slightly different way than in the past, so you lose."

Posted by: imp at July 01, 2020 04:25 PM (SFOr6)

219 There are steps between the QI we have now, and having absolutely no protection at all for well meaning police.

We have fallen into a trap, where we must protect every single police action, good and bad, to protect the good ones. I do not believe that needs to be the case.

Posted by: Nick in Tallahassee at July 01, 2020 04:25 PM (svbBD)

220 "Qualified immunity does not protect the state from such suits."

You do not understand Qualified Immunity. It absolutely protects states from such suits.

Look up Jessop v. Fresno: where two cops who stole $225,000 could not be sued, nor can the department (because the department did not train them to do that, so they are immune).

Look up Kelsay v. Ernst: where a cop assault a women, but could not be sued, nor can the department (because the department did not train them to do that, so they are immune).

Look up Riis, Holcombe, et al vs Shaver, City of Pierre et all: where cops who forced catherization of 6 people could not be sued DESPITE RULING IT VIOLATED THE FOURTH AMENDMENT, nor can the department (because the department did not train them to do that, so they are immune).

Why? Because the Supreme Court ruled in Monell v. Department of Social Services of the City of New York that municipalities are not liable to be sued under section 1983 just because an employee violated the Constitution. They only can be sued if there was a CLEAR policy or custom that caused it. That is impossible to prove.

So yes Ace, QI absolutely protects the state from such suits. It is nigh impossible to sue a department or police officers for violating your rights, even if the court rules they did violate your rights - because of QI.

QI needs to go.

Posted by: Patrick Henry, the 2nd at July 01, 2020 04:26 PM (/qwdy)

221 If we want a new official holiday it should not be Juneteenth. It should be either the day of the emancipation proclamation September 22 or the day the 13th Amendment was passed January 31.

Yeah, that would be what I would push for as a Republican and as Trump. Not Texas' pet obscure day, but the real event that actually mattered.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:26 PM (KZzsI)

222 I added this:

Update: Alex the Chick, imp, and a couple other commenters have made a good case that my argument that you can always just sue the principle is not always correct.

I think that's an argument for making states and cities liable for the torts committed by their agents -- not making the agents amenable to personal suit.

There's no way to avoid the conclusion that if you penalize a cop for making an arrest, he'll want to stop making arrests. Or arrest people who will give him no problems, over trifles, to make quota, while leaving the predators who are likely to resist arrest free to victimize more citizens.

Posted by: ace at July 01, 2020 04:26 PM (PbpT7)

223 214. Pssst...they need to have it near July 4, to overshadow any display of patriotism.

Posted by: Nick in Tallahassee at July 01, 2020 04:26 PM (svbBD)

224 That is correct RaiderJoe. The fact that Braun can't decipher that defund the police and end QI are the same attempt to get rid of police is disheartening.

No bills should be passed during times of crisis. The we must do something laws always bite us in the ass.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 01, 2020 04:26 PM (r+sAi)

225
I am okay with having a Juneteenth holiday, but its... odd to make this national, when its strictly a Texas thing.

-------

I dunno - they've been doing a Juneteenth celebration for years in Denver, but not this year because of COVID. And probably not much longer, period - the illegals are rapidly taking over all the black neighborhoods.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 01, 2020 04:26 PM (oJN+m)

226 Yes, one of the benefits would be a GL insurance policy, that's entirely the point.

What happens if you have far insurance but you keep getting in accidents? Your rates go up until unsustainable, or you become uninsurable.

That's exactly the idea: if a bad cop keeps doing shitty things, eventually he'll be uninsurable and no matter how much the police union tries to protect him, he won't be able to police anymore because he'll be at ridiculous risk of losing everything.

It's a fantastic way to get rid of bad cops that keep getting protected by the literally evil police unions.

Posted by: Goober at July 01, 2020 04:26 PM (Hgvgt)

227 214 I am okay with having a Juneteenth holiday, but its... odd to make this national, when its strictly a Texas thing. Emancipation day was weeks earlier, all Juneteenth is, is when that news reached the last slave state.

Its like celebrating not VE-Day, but the day Idaho learned about it. Its just weird.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:24 PM (KZzsI)
------------

They celebrate it up here in Milwaukee.

Posted by: WisRich at July 01, 2020 04:26 PM (G0vdT)

228 The Emancipation Proclamation did NOT free all the slaves.

Legally speaking, it didn't free anyone. But effectively so, it did. Everyone knew at that point slavery was done as an official institution in the country.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:27 PM (KZzsI)

229 I don't think Mike Braun really exists - I think it's Joe Donnelly in a rubber suit.

Posted by: Citizen Cake at July 01, 2020 04:27 PM (HmZuC)

230

Posted by: clutch cargo at July 01, 2020 04:22 PM (8B6Ng)

=====================
John Roberts? John?

Posted by: Tree Of Liberty Gardening Club at July 01, 2020 04:27 PM (cMhK0)

231 It's better than not hearing from us at all.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting terrorist in Nakatomi Tower at July 01, 2020 04:19 PM (LvTSG)
-------------------------------

Wasn't trying to be catty. Seriously, I've donated money. I've written letters and letters with a check in the fold.
And the T-Party main success was motivating the CoC to diminish them.

Serious question, what can we do to, as Tucker says, "We will haveb to just straight-up tell them what to do",?
"

Posted by: Braenyard at July 01, 2020 04:27 PM (Zktzy)

232 Posted by: JAS at July 01, 2020 04:23 PM (2BZBZ)
******
Yeah if you like Drama Queen Fake Tough Guys TuCa is your guy

Posted by: Ghost Of Qassem Soleimani at July 01, 2020 04:27 PM (Y8itH)

233 Most of us are not as clean as Flynn and we can't afford someone like Powell.
Posted by: jc at July 01, 2020 04:23 PM (PuMKG)

jc -

during the interview, Powell made the same point.

I think Jack Straw gave the link ...

Here it is...

https://tinyurl.com/ycfanjqn

Posted by: JackStraw at June 30, 2020 03:29 PM (ZLI7S)

Posted by: Adriane the Legle Beagle Critic ... at July 01, 2020 04:27 PM (LPnfS)

234 The statue of limitations are usually very short.

-
It was built by slaveholders. TEAR IT DOWN!!!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 01, 2020 04:27 PM (+y/Ru)

235 Actually looking back, the deep state first showed itself when BOTH sides were trying to crush the tea party

Posted by: Yo! at July 01, 2020 04:27 PM (s2Zir)

236

If we're going to attack qualified immunity, let's not start with the police. How about federal prosecutors?

We'll run it as a pilot and see how things shape out.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting terrorist in Nakatomi Tower

They do not have qualified immunity. They have absolute immunity. "Absolute" has some exceptions (oddly enough) but it's not QI.

Posted by: imp at July 01, 2020 04:28 PM (SFOr6)

237 I dunno - they've been doing a Juneteenth celebration for years in Denver

Sure, scattered people around the US commemorate the day, but what I mean is that its significance was strictly Texas. This was the day Texas heard about the slave being free. Its not even the day all slaves were legally commanded free, its just when word reached the state.

Again: celebrating VE day on the day some place finally heard of it

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:28 PM (KZzsI)

238 We have enough goddamn holidays

Posted by: CN at July 01, 2020 04:28 PM (ONvIw)

239 People who think we should abolish Columbus Day are outright bigots against Catholics.

And, here are BLM commies pulling down statues of Lincoln, but we need to make a holiday commemorating Lincoln's accomplishments.

Don't any of these people have even two brain cells to rub together?

Posted by: tcn in AK at July 01, 2020 04:28 PM (okGHj)

240 There's nothing wrong with adding a Juneteenth holiday, it's the getting rid of Columbus Day that's the insidious part of this.

Posted by: Zombie Robbo the Llama Butcher at July 01, 2020 04:28 PM (dfRN6)

241 Posted by: Vanya at July 01, 2020 04:23 PM (R7nPl)
LMAO

Posted by: ... at July 01, 2020 04:29 PM (B8RmS)

242 >>f anything good came from a divorce where I lost everything, having to act nice to this person on Christmas or Thanksgiving is no longer something I'm forced to do.

https://tinyurl.com/y9poql5z

Sickening.
- - - -

HOLY SH#T, clutch cargo

I saw that earlier and wanted to vomit.
Knew that the undercover PP videos were the reason no Democrat at state or federal level would vote for protection of aborted babies born alive. EVIL

Posted by: Lizzy at July 01, 2020 04:29 PM (bDqIh)

243 All true, but... if someone is getting more than the average number, that's not going to elude official notice. Again, the system isn't perfect -- no system is -- and it could use some repairing, but its not as bad as people think, and radical solutions like opening police up to constant legal harassment is worse than what we have now.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:23 PM (KZzsI)

Agreed, on all counts.

Re your first point, that's why I wanted to know how many complaints other cops, similarly situated, had received per unit time (say, year), the total time being enough to yield a statistically significant number.

I'd also want to know how many complaints per arrest, so that a cop, albeit in the ghetto, who spends his time guarding the Dunkin' Donuts doesn't skew the results.

I'd also want to know the number of complaints per arrest broken out by the nature of the arrest. Busting someone for some minor offense is a lot less likely to result in a complaint than for a serious one, such as a felony.

Last, I'd want to know how many complaints were filed by those arrested after fighting with the police.

Without that information, I think it's impossible to say whether Chauvin was intrinsically a bad cop or not.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:29 PM (pmpob)

244 What I see happening here, if you end QI, is what happens with TSA agents.

Cops will start bothering law-abiding people, just like TSA agents focus on law-abiding people, because law-abiding people are unlikely to wind up needing arresting and will not make trouble either way.

Meanwhile, they'll avoid high-crime perps. The people who will make trouble and will resist arrest and will have leftwing advocates filing lawsuits for.

Posted by: ace at July 01, 2020 04:29 PM (PbpT7)

245 I just wrote a new respectful letter to my Senator which I'm sure will be read by precisely no one.

Posted by: MJ at July 01, 2020 04:29 PM (gAMkn)

246 180 According to this report, the NBA will allow its players to replace the last name on the back of their jerseys with a statement on "social justice."
Posted by: SMOD at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (3aI0K)

Odds on any players with "Free Hong Kong" or "Uygher Lives Matter" on their jerseys?

Posted by: Short Shorts at July 01, 2020 04:29 PM (O6DoG)

247 If we're going to attack qualified immunity, let's not start with the police. How
about federal prosecutors?

***

Agreed. I'd like to see a simple rule that if the federal prosecutor is found to have withheld any exculpatory evidence that he *automatically* gets sentenced to the same time the defendant did.

That would put a lot of pressure on the DA to drop cases where he's been playing with the evidence....and severely punish them if they do not.

Posted by: 18-1 at July 01, 2020 04:29 PM (qlFIA)

248 Pa's deaths have been down every week since April.
Got Karen this afternoon
"Masks are required in the common areas "
Posted by: Skip at July 01, 2020 04:25 PM (6f16T)

The media equated infection = certain death

and you tell anyone anything otherwise.

Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:29 PM (gtdYu)

249 It's a fantastic way to get rid of bad cops that keep getting protected by the literally evil police unions.
Posted by: Goober at July 01, 2020 04:26 PM (Hgvgt)

Also a super way to sue good cops out of a job.

And you know who doesn't like good cops?

Criminals and BLMs (BIRM).

Posted by: BurtTC at July 01, 2020 04:30 PM (hku12)

250 They celebrate it up here in Milwaukee.
Posted by: WisRich at July 01, 2020 04:26 PM (G0vdT)

Just proof that folks in Milwaukee are as ignorant as anywhere else, I suppose.

Posted by: tcn in AK at July 01, 2020 04:30 PM (okGHj)

251 > I think we can agree that we should be able to sue prosecutors for malicious prosecution.

I think the issue du jour is malicious underprosecution, because the DA is using thugs and rioters as a weapon against his political enemies, and leaving them no avenue to seek protection under the law.

Since this was a tactic of KKK-friendly prosecutors back in the day, I'm guess there were at least some countermeasures developed. It's time to dig them up and deploy them against the Soros DAs.

Posted by: perilisk at July 01, 2020 04:30 PM (9p+wn)

252 Just defund they police and we won't have to worry about immunity right?

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 01, 2020 04:30 PM (SEnIW)

253 234 I think that IS the plan! the Constitution was built by slaveholders...it's invalid. Communism was built by free men. Statues only the wedge to the larger door

Posted by: CN at July 01, 2020 04:30 PM (ONvIw)

254 "Representation" means "do what we tell you to do". I kinda thought that's what all this election stuff was originally about. Does anyone think people who worry about islands tipping over or guns with things that go up have the neural capacity to think for us?

Take the issues of your exclusive domain to a central forum and present it to peers. Vote it up or down. Live with the consequences. And to really do it right, screw the party designations. It's the end around to citizen representation.

Posted by: AnonyBotymousDrivel at July 01, 2020 04:30 PM (HhXSr)

255 People who think we should abolish Columbus Day are outright bigots against Catholics.

And, here are BLM commies pulling down statues of Lincoln, but we need to make a holiday commemorating Lincoln's accomplishments.

Don't any of these people have even two brain cells to rub together?
Posted by: tcn in AK at July 01, 2020 04:28 PM (okGHj)

no

Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:31 PM (gtdYu)

256 51 We need to be able to sue Gavin Newsome. When did California become Cuba?
Posted by: notsothoreau at July 01, 2020 03:56 PM (JKNZq)

The day Ahhrrnooldd lost the big one (several referenda items))and decided to let the Dems do whatever they wanted.

Posted by: Fox2! at July 01, 2020 04:31 PM (tjRMO)

257 Just a couple of data points: King County WA is currently not processing new applications for concealed pistol licenses under the current COVID restrictions. It will process renewals, however, during restricted hours.

Also, thirteen detectives/deputies announced their separation notice from a large Western WA municipality just last month. The average number who leave in one year is roughly 5.

Posted by: fly gal at July 01, 2020 04:31 PM (6CtMt)

258 It took about 20 years to go from you are crazy to think 2 men will get married to having 50 states issue gay marriage licenses.

It took about 20 days to go from you are crazy to think police will be abolished to NYPD and LAPD getting billions cut from the police budget.

Posted by: Hotgas VIP Member at July 01, 2020 04:31 PM (SjAGT)

259 I'm not sure I'm so for Juneteenth in a state that hasn't had slavery since shortly after the country was formed.

Posted by: Skip at July 01, 2020 04:31 PM (6f16T)

260 https://bit.ly/2VwuflX Mrs. Hooks think QI is harmful and got her husband killed

Posted by: tmitsss at July 01, 2020 04:31 PM (bEAoD)

261 There was a plan to misbehave this summer. Big plans and widespread. Any trigger would do.Joe Mannix
**
I agree, as battle space prep for the election, and I think that something was planned for July 4th but will still go down. All of the sudden the big cities are being flooded with illegal fireworks. Why all at once? Guys in Baltimore are already attacking people with Roman candles. Would make a lot of noise, hurt a lot of people, provoke cops, helter skelter.

And why else would BLM P. Cullors suddenly interject that the purpose of these actions is to get Trump to resign? I thought BLM was all about 400 years of system racism.

Posted by: PJ at July 01, 2020 04:31 PM (qlTN9)

262 238 We have enough goddamn holidays
Posted by: CN at July 01, 2020 04:28 PM (ONvIw)

This.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:31 PM (pmpob)

263 We have enough goddamn holidays
Posted by: CN at July 01, 2020 04:28 PM

How about one holiday for the rest of us?

Posted by: Festivus at July 01, 2020 04:32 PM (DMUuz)

264 Posted by: Ghost Of Qassem Soleimani at July 01, 2020 04:27 PM (Y8itH)

============
What a horse's ass you are sometimes. Random internet commenters, like you, need public voices, people in the arena, to also make their case. Otherwise your views are much harder to hear. So Tucker Carlson (like him or not) makes it possible for your opinions to have some resonance.

Posted by: Huck Follywood, hunker in the bunker at July 01, 2020 04:32 PM (cMhK0)

265 lol Vanya.. thanks for the laugh!

Posted by: Jewells45feeling sad at July 01, 2020 04:32 PM (dUJdY)

266 The day Ahhrrnooldd lost the big one (several referenda items))and decided to let the Dems do whatever they wanted.
Posted by: Fox2! at July 01, 2020 04:31 PM (tjRMO)

He started out like a house afire, but then got ass-raped by the SF Chronicle and the LAT, lost some political fights, and obviously said, "Fuggit," and went along with the Reds thereafter.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:32 PM (pmpob)

267 There was a plan to misbehave this summer. Big plans and widespread. Any trigger would do.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)

You're Welcome!

Posted by: SCOAMF at July 01, 2020 04:33 PM (LWu6U)

268 SMOD: "According to this report, the NBA will allow its players to replace the last name on the back of their jerseys with a statement on 'social justice.'"

The NBA is, apparently, adamant about flushing money down the toilet.

Posted by: AnonyBotymousDrivel at July 01, 2020 04:33 PM (HhXSr)

269 2 weeks ago 80% of the country had no clue what Juneteenth was. Today it is being proposed as a national paid holiday.

We are at Warp 12 speed and Godnonly knows what August will bring.

Posted by: Hotgas VIP Member at July 01, 2020 04:33 PM (SjAGT)

270 OK I did not know the ins and outs of qualified immunity
I blame Johnson and this damn war

Posted by: DB- just DB at July 01, 2020 04:33 PM (iTXRQ)

271 Harumph.

Harumph I say.

Posted by: Republican Senator at July 01, 2020 04:33 PM (qRkY9)

272 Posted by: Huck Follywood, hunker in the bunker at July 01, 2020 04:32 PM (cMhK0)

Sometimes?

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 01, 2020 04:34 PM (SEnIW)

273 None of us would be here if not for Columbus, and damning his accomplishments and tearing his statue down makes as much sense as damning your parents for ever meeting

Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:34 PM (gtdYu)

274 Gov Wolf, The old mentally ill guy in a dress who pretends to be health secretary and Pennsylvania in general can kiss my un-masked ass.

Posted by: Orson at July 01, 2020 04:34 PM (Bz0CG)

275 Actually looking back, the deep state first showed itself when BOTH sides were trying to crush the tea party
Posted by: Yo! at July 01, 2020 04:27 PM (s2Zir)

Yep, and then confirmed it when Treytor Gowdy-Doody didn't do a fucking thing to rein in the rogue IRS when he was holding all the cards.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 01, 2020 04:34 PM (y7DUB)

276 >>According to this report, the NBA will allow its players to replace the last name on the back of their jerseys with a statement on "social justice."

Alrighty! It's their sports league, so let's see how this goes, LOL.

I can't wait for some Tim Tebo type guy to try to do a pro-life statement.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 01, 2020 04:35 PM (bDqIh)

277 According to the Sydney Powell interview yesterday, Federal Prosecutors have Absolute Immunity ...

Why don't we start on reducing that to qualified?
Posted by: Adriane the Legle Beagle Critic ... at July 01, 2020 03:59 PM (LPnfS)

Oh look there goes my eyes bleeding again.

Mayhap we should all start with this. I think that all sides can agree that there should be some level of immunity for government actors acting in good faith and in accordance with statutes and guidelines. Even I do not think immunity should be completely annihilated.

The issue is what counts as qualified. That's the argument. The practicalities flow down from there.

Let's move this away from police. How about Annie Dookhan? Should she be free from personal liability for outright falsifying in excess of 20,000 drug tests?

I see a ton of people around here frothing at the mouth that Flynn should be able to sue Comey. You do know he can't right? Why? Prosecutorial immunity.

I will keep saying this. This is a complicated subject which has no easy answers. But sneering that those of us who think the current QI system is outrageous support the BLM dream of no cops is ludicrous and does nothing, not one single solitary thing, to promote there being the least awful alternative.

Because if there's not a least awful one, there will be the awful one.

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 04:35 PM (GbPPJ)

278 273

Think of antifa as people who hate themselves and curse the day their parents eye met.

Posted by: Hotgas VIP Member at July 01, 2020 04:35 PM (SjAGT)

279 >>>Well, Mike, did you read the opinion? It's not that long. And it's Thomas, so it is written in human, not legal.

I skimmed it

>>>So, is it your opinion that Justice Thomas is on the side of BLM and wants to get rid of cops?

It's unclear what Judge Thomas' position actually is in regards to QI other than the current QI is has issues in many ways.

So I'll qualify.

If he is for abolishing QI as is the actual topic at hand, and the actions being taken and proposed. Absolutely he is on the side of BLM or rather their communist masters whom wish to dismantle law enforcement.

If he is for changing QI to be fairer, which isn't the actual topic of conversation, then no he isn't on BLMs side.

Posted by: mikethemoose at July 01, 2020 04:35 PM (Y6UV7)

280 180 According to this report, the NBA will allow its players to replace the last name on the back of their jerseys with a statement on "social justice."
Posted by: SMOD at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (3aI0K)

Odds on any players with "Free Hong Kong" or "Uygher Lives Matter" on their jerseys?
Posted by: Short Shorts at July 01, 2020 04:29 PM (O6DoG)

Odds on whatever they put on their jerseys being laughably mispelt?

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:35 PM (pmpob)

281 268 SMOD: "According to this report, the NBA will allow its players to replace the last name on the back of their jerseys with a statement on 'social justice.'"

The NBA is, apparently, adamant about flushing money down the toilet.
Posted by: AnonyBotymousDrivel at July 01, 2020 04:33 PM (HhXSr)

Will those statements be in Chinese?

Posted by: Northernlurker at July 01, 2020 04:36 PM (lgiXo)

282 179 Absolutely bullshit! Obergruppenfurher Tom Wolfe had just decided that everyone in Pennsylvania must wear a mask if they leave their homes
Posted by: Just here for the jokes at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (Izzlo)

The Tommunist is Asshoe.

Posted by: Allie at July 01, 2020 04:36 PM (vmRc0)

283 Trump needs to hold out for a Lincoln-Douglas style debate....NO MODERATORS!

Now that would must see TV

Posted by: Pete Seria at July 01, 2020 04:36 PM (7ZQe3)

284 There was a plan to misbehave this summer. Big plans and widespread. Any trigger would do.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)

You're Welcome!
Posted by: SCOAMF at July 01, 2020 04:33 PM (LWu6U)

Obama is a POS and i hope he gets his real soon

Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:36 PM (gtdYu)

285 When "the state" has to pay a judgment or a settlement for a bad cop, where does the money come from? (fx: Final Jeopardy music)
If you want to preserve QI to sue for a bigger payout, you ought to know who you intend to shake down.

Posted by: Still Zap Rowsdower old friend you've managed to kill just about everyone else at July 01, 2020 04:36 PM (cUpB1)

286 Degenerate gamblers will probably bet on what LeXi will have on his jersey. Sports will never take a hit since gamblers will never leave.

Posted by: Hotgas VIP Member at July 01, 2020 04:36 PM (SjAGT)

287 He started out like a house afire, but then got ass-raped by the SF Chronicle and the LAT, lost some political fights, and obviously said, "Fuggit," and went along with the Reds thereafter.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:32 PM (pmpob)

Of course the idiots in CA voted him in thinking "R" next to his name, the clown folded like a cheap pup tent in a matter of weeks. Now he's a full fledged lefty. Well, I think he always was, save for the global warming stuff which he's all on board with now.

To think we could have had McClintock.

Or Tattoo. Or inflatable scrotum guy.

Posted by: clutch cargo at July 01, 2020 04:37 PM (8B6Ng)

288

I think that's an argument for making states and cities liable for the torts committed by their agents -- not making the agents amenable to personal suit.

There's no way to avoid the conclusion that if you penalize a cop for making an arrest, he'll want to stop making arrests. Or arrest people who will give him no problems, over trifles, to make quota, while leaving the predators who are likely to resist arrest free to victimize more citizens.
Posted by: ace

thanks, ace. Not trying to stir shit at all, and I completely agree that broadening liability (or narrowing immunity) will deter some law enforcement action on the margins.

But states can't be liable without changing the 11th Amendment, and Section 1983 was the way around that limitation where you had the Night Riders terrorizing black villages and then taking off their robes and putting on a marshal's star.

What we need are clear rules and training on use of all force. And a vigorous compensation method that will ensure that cops have some skin in the game, not just their departments (if the department have any at all). Loser pays is a terrible plan in practice, because lost of judges just dismiss cases to get them off their docket. A modest statutory penalty for filing a proven baseless suit might work, but even that runs into problems. Having a clear standard for unlawful use of force would be ideal, but it's tough to envision.

The best idea I've heard is a 20% situational training requirement (from Jocko).

Posted by: imp at July 01, 2020 04:37 PM (SFOr6)

289 ...
All true, but... if someone is getting more than the average number, that's not going to elude official notice. Again, the system isn't perfect -- no system is -- and it could use some repairing, but its not as bad as people think, and radical solutions like opening police up to constant legal harassment is worse than what we have now.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:23 PM (KZzsI)

That cop, Goines, in TX, responsible for the deaths of the Tuttles:

His last performance review reprimanded him for being aggressive and for not producing enough arrests. (better said it was a very mixed message)

Posted by: Braenyard at July 01, 2020 04:37 PM (Zktzy)

290 The rule of law is dead and has been for a long time. it's all will to power.

Posted by: always ahead of the curve at July 01, 2020 04:37 PM (ozHKW)

291 Pro basketball players making statements with their names?

Never happen.

Posted by: Metta World Peace at July 01, 2020 04:37 PM (DMUuz)

292 Thanks for the explanation, Ace. We get notices of lawsuits all the time, and when they sue, they sue the city. City usually settles and life goes on.

Removing qualified immunity will end policing forever. No cop, especially a new hire, has the money to defend himself from constant lawsuits.

People will leave the job in droves and no one will join the department again.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 01, 2020 04:37 PM (AFSld)

293 237
IAgain: celebrating VE day on the day some place finally heard of it
celebrating VJ day on the ay Teruo Nakamura surrendered (Dec 18, 1974)

Posted by: Anachronda at July 01, 2020 04:37 PM (sGtp+)

294 JoeF.: "None of us would be here if not for Columbus, and damning his accomplishments and tearing his statue down makes as much sense as damning your parents for ever meeting"

Given what we've seen of FaAntifa/onlyBLM, I think they're the walking embodiment of the latter.

Posted by: AnonyBotymousDrivel at July 01, 2020 04:37 PM (HhXSr)

295 bsolutely bullshit! Obergruppenfurher Tom Wolfe had just decided that everyone in Pennsylvania must wear a mask if they leave their homes
Posted by: Just here for the jokes at July 01, 2020 04:17 PM (Izzlo)

The Tommunist is Asshoe.
Posted by: Allie at July 01, 2020 04:36 PM (vmRc0)

Even walking outside in the 90 degree heat?

Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:37 PM (gtdYu)

296 273 None of us would be here if not for Columbus, and damning his accomplishments and tearing his statue down makes as much sense as damning your parents for ever meeting
Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:34 PM (gtdYu)

It's the same shit up here. Damn whitey for dragging Native's asses out of the stone age. Ergo, whitey pays for Native healthcare, Native schools (which are routinely pilfered all summer and have no computers by the time school starts in the fall), and gets to hear the litany of Native issues blames upon him.

After all, we were so mean to bring them the internet, fresh fruit, modern schooling, modern healthcare, and all those sweet sweet welfare dollars.

Is there anything whitey ever did that wasn't evil?

/rant off

Posted by: tcn in AK at July 01, 2020 04:37 PM (okGHj)

297 277. 100% this. For many of us, revising QI is not a new issue, but something we have been after for a long, long time. I do not want to eliminate QI, I want it to apply on to well meaning government actors within the scope of their well defined duties.

Something does tell me that Braun wanted to line the pockets of trial lawyers.

Posted by: Nick in Tallahassee at July 01, 2020 04:38 PM (svbBD)

298 Hillary Clinton @HillaryClinton

If elected president, you can bet @joebiden will never tweet about his TV ratings.

--
Yeah because like 3 people watch his live streams

Posted by: SMOD at July 01, 2020 04:38 PM (3aI0K)

299 Chris Hayes dodged a bullet:

Chris Hayes@chrislhayes
Just remembered when I was little kid I was strictly forbidden from watching the Dukes of Hazzard by my mom because of the flag on the car. Good work, mom!

-
On the other hand, if you had watched Daisy Dukes maybe you wouldn't be such a pussy.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 01, 2020 04:38 PM (+y/Ru)

300 This defund BS is an evolution of Clinton's attempt to buy their votes back with 100K police crap 30 years ago. He thought if he paid them off they would vote Dem, and when that didn't work the dems realized they had to defund and rebuild under a different name.

Go to any big city and the offices are stuffed to the gills with people pushing paper around and doing nothing except voting dem. That is what they want to turn the police into. Hire HS dropout illegals to go around to citizens whenever there is a complaint and while they are there, do the ground work for the campaigns.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at July 01, 2020 04:38 PM (LWu6U)

301 America the ideal is always worth our fight. The D.C. swamp is not. Can't be fixed only destroyed.

Posted by: azalea city at July 01, 2020 04:38 PM (WX+x0)

302 179 Absolutely bullshit! Obergruppenfurher Tom Wolfe had just decided that everyone in Pennsylvania must wear a mask if they leave their homes
Posted by: Just here for the jokes at July 01, 2020 04:17

---

The masks do not prevent the transmission of communicable diseases. It says so right on the box.

The his whole thing is jus an exercise in dominance and submission.

Posted by: Pete Seria at July 01, 2020 04:38 PM (7ZQe3)

303 Well President's Day should be shifted to Obama's birthday, since Washington was a slaveholder. And Lincoln - whose statues are being removed in some places, merely vandalized in others - has many many many quotes that are scorchingly, crudely racist. And Obama was historic, our first black president.

So make the damn change, GOP Senate.

People here should be "OK with it".

And FFS, *two* f***king holidays for the military, when US involvement in war crimes is undeniable? Every disgusting monument to American war crimes should be removed, or have a large plaque putting them in the context of American criminality.

Maybe Braun can propose this as a 2nd-degree amendment to Lankford's amendment to Cornyn's bill?

Posted by: rhomboid at July 01, 2020 04:39 PM (El6T/)

304 I'm for Juneteenth for one reason.

It's ultimately a reminder of the end of slavery.

If people are reminded of its end - and that it ended a long time ago, they might start to ask pointy questions about why they aren't prospering under Democrat rule.

I'm tend to like things that might cause a little more inquisitiveness here and there.

Posted by: Cato, Collectivism Delenda Est at July 01, 2020 04:39 PM (J+mig)

305 Don't worry. Brave Republicans are offering the bill to rename our military bases.

They are taking action! This is just what the American people have been waiting for!

Fucking cowards.

Posted by: Hesco Gypsy, staring from 457 meters at July 01, 2020 04:39 PM (njmkf)

306 >>>Oh look there goes my eyes bleeding again.

Mayhap we should all start with this. I think that all sides can agree that there should be some level of immunity for government actors acting in good faith and in accordance with statutes and guidelines. Even I do not think immunity should be completely annihilated.

The issue is what counts as qualified. That's the argument. The practicalities flow down from there.

...

Here's a praciticality: THe minute you change a bright line to a fuzzy line you put someone through the massive cost of legal process, and, as I can attest, the left is highly adept at making the process the punishment.

If you say you have immunity, but not for "egregious" violations, you have opened everyone to suit, because what is "egregious" will have to be litigated. You can't get too many 12(b)(1) dismissals claiming that some act definitely was not "egregious" as a matter of law.

So pretty much every cop is going to trial whenever some scumbag wants him to.

Posted by: ace at July 01, 2020 04:40 PM (PbpT7)

307 I think fewer paid holidays are needed. Public employees get enough time off, as do banks, schools and plenty of others.Maybe we should have a smorgasbord and you choose your several most important. Closing for Ramadan, Diwali, Christmas and Chanukah seems excessive for schools. In government choose Juneteenth or Columbus day or whatever.

Posted by: CN at July 01, 2020 04:40 PM (ONvIw)

308 Obama is a POS and i hope he gets his real soon
Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:36 PM (gtdYu)

Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord.

However, it IS His, and He will have it.

Posted by: tcn in AK at July 01, 2020 04:40 PM (okGHj)

309 Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 04:35 PM (GbPPJ)

I believe QI or Absolute Immunity against personal civil suits is necessary as is with the exception that a civil suit can be brought if the subject is criminally charged.

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 01, 2020 04:40 PM (SEnIW)

310 273 None of us would be here if not for Columbus, and damning his accomplishments and tearing his statue down makes as much sense as damning your parents for ever meeting
Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:34 PM (gtdYu)

mamma mia, wat aboudda mi???

Posted by: Amerigo Vespucci at July 01, 2020 04:40 PM (Kpl3J)

311 I would love an nba dude to put planned parenthood is racist on his jersey or abortion is murder. They of course would say that is not a sj issue, but the news about the censure would make it wider known.

I won't hold my can't breath though.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 01, 2020 04:41 PM (r+sAi)

312 I think that's an argument for making states and cities liable for the torts committed by their agents -- not making the agents amenable to personal suit.

I think this is the far better approach. It weeds out the source and origin of the problems, rather than the symptoms of it.

Personally I don't give a crap about Columbus. Not only do I have no Italian (or Spanish) blood that I am aware of but he didn't even find America. I don't think he was a monster, or at least no more a monster than the average man of his times and status. I just don't care about him one way or another and most holidays mean almost nothing to me.

But Juneteenth is a weird one to add in, for reasons I've covered above.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:41 PM (KZzsI)

313

Really a great time to make critical decisions about which shit we want to destroy to appease those mfkrs.

Who says violence doesn't work?

The only reason this is being discussed is because terrorists is holding a gun to the head of America.

#blmwinning

Posted by: Your Chinese-Owned Grifting GOPe at July 01, 2020 04:41 PM (luzVb)

314 304: Slavery is fucking over. Full stop.

Posted by: CN at July 01, 2020 04:41 PM (ONvIw)

315 If people are reminded of its end - and that it ended a long time ago, they might start to ask pointy questions about why they aren't prospering under Democrat rule.

I'm tend to like things that might cause a little more inquisitiveness here and there.
Posted by: Cato, Collectivism Delenda Est at July 01, 2020 04:39 PM (J+mig)

With these clowns, there is no think, only feel and do.

Posted by: tcn in AK at July 01, 2020 04:41 PM (okGHj)

316 I am not going to wear a mask outside, it just isn't ever going to happen.

Posted by: Skip at July 01, 2020 04:42 PM (6f16T)

317 /sum ting wong

Posted by: deplorable unperson - Black Lives Matter is a terrorist organization at July 01, 2020 04:42 PM (luzVb)

318 "States and cities liable" means taxpayers liable.

Posted by: Still Zap Rowsdower old friend you've managed to kill just about everyone else at July 01, 2020 04:42 PM (cUpB1)

319 Obergruppenfurher Tom Wolfe had just decided that everyone in Pennsylvania must wear a mask if they leave their homes

Mandatory in my county starting today. I went to 3 places, Hobby Lobby, Walmart and the Nail salon. Everyone was masked up. Checking out of Walmart 4 people were together using the self checkout. Two of the young girls were not wearing one. I wanted to go all Karen on them. If I have to suffer then so do you. Bitch.

Posted by: Jewells45feeling sad at July 01, 2020 04:42 PM (dUJdY)

320 On the other hand, if you had watched Daisy Dukes maybe you wouldn't be such a pussy.

Yeah there has to be a ranking below beta male, right?

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:42 PM (KZzsI)

321 Merely having your name on the back of your NBA uniform is going to be a statement in itself.

Posted by: ... at July 01, 2020 04:42 PM (B8RmS)

322 *terrorists are

Posted by: deplorable unperson - Black Lives Matter is a terrorist organization at July 01, 2020 04:42 PM (luzVb)

323 In other news...

Oklahoma voted to expand Medicaid yesterday. Idaho did the same in 2018.

Only a matter of time before the gift runs all health care. When 2 of the reddest states say yeah man more freebies, the game is lost.

Posted by: Hotgas VIP Member at July 01, 2020 04:42 PM (SjAGT)

324 Chris Hayes@chrislhayes
Just remembered when I was little kid I was strictly forbidden from watching the Dukes of Hazzard by my mom because of the flag on the car. Good work, mom!

-
On the other hand, if you had watched Daisy Dukes maybe you wouldn't be such a pussy.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 01, 2020 04:38 PM (+y/Ru)

There was a car?

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:43 PM (pmpob)

325 If you say you have immunity, but not for "egregious" violations, you have opened everyone to suit, because what is "egregious" will have to be litigated. You can't get too many 12(b)(1) dismissals claiming that some act definitely was not "egregious" as a matter of law.

So pretty much every cop is going to trial whenever some scumbag wants him to.
Posted by: ace at July 01, 2020 04:40 PM (PbpT7)

Not just some scumbag - suppose you were a large criminal organization with a lot of money and lawyers on your payroll - let's call it a "Cartel" - what do you think are your chances of working this until the only officers left out on the street are the ones on your payroll???

Posted by: Amerigo Vespucci at July 01, 2020 04:43 PM (Kpl3J)

326 Republicans are also offering a bill to take away Columbus Day and replace it with Juneteenth.

That should be popular. Especially with Italian Americans, who are apparently now second class citizens.

I can't take all this courage and righteous action. This is just what the Republican electorate has been waiting for.

Honestly, is the DNC running the Republican campaign this cycle?

Posted by: Hesco Gypsy, staring from 457 meters at July 01, 2020 04:43 PM (njmkf)

327 None of us would be here if not for Columbus, and damning his accomplishments and tearing his statue down makes as much sense as damning your parents for ever meeting
Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:34 PM (gtdYu)

I don't know about that. He "discovered" America. I mean, it was right here.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 01, 2020 04:43 PM (hku12)

328 >>>316 I am not going to wear a mask outside, it just isn't ever going to happen.

Same. Arrest me Fuhrer Wolf.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 01, 2020 04:44 PM (AFSld)

329 On the other side of "these guys get away with murder because we can't sue them" is the Trump equasion: if he wasn't immune to lawsuits how many billions would he be facing now?

Nuisance lawfare is a real tactic to destroy people, and if they aren't protected then the worst among us use that to annihilate people they do not like.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:44 PM (KZzsI)

330 I added this:

Update: Alex the Chick, imp, and a couple other commenters have made a good case that my argument that you can always just sue the principle is not always correct.

I think that's an argument for making states and cities liable for the torts committed by their agents -- not making the agents amenable to personal suit.

There's no way to avoid the conclusion that if you penalize a cop for making an arrest, he'll want to stop making arrests. Or arrest people who will give him no problems, over trifles, to make quota, while leaving the predators who are likely to resist arrest free to victimize more citizens.
Posted by: ace at July 01, 2020 04:26 PM (PbpT7)

Thank you for that. This is the unsolvable problem, mainly because it involves people, how do you hold the bad eggs responsible while not creating an incentive structure whereby the good eggs are, rightly, concerned with how their actions will be perceived.

Let me take a hatchet to my own position. If there is individual liability, even under an insurance based system, then the incentive will be to do whatever is needed to minimize claims. Now, that may be useful in, say, the legal field or engineering or title searching. But the incentive structure we want for police officers is for them to put their lives on the line in dangerous situations. Since the cops don't always know what will turn dangerous (ask any cop why it is that domestic calls are the ones they fear the most), in an individualized fault system, the incentive will be to avoid any situation unless it cannot be avoided. That is human nature. This is *reasonable* human nature at that.

Using normal agency principles would work but then it comes back to what people are pointing out - the principal is a state entity which has only the funds obtained via taxes or bonds. Thus the public will be paying the settlement or verdict for the action of the individual who acted outside the scope of his/her authority.

Why does reality have to be so messy and not abide by my pretty pretty theories?

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 04:45 PM (GbPPJ)

331 326. They are just honkeys now, which would be startling news to the Italians who migrated pre-1940.

Posted by: Nick in Tallahassee at July 01, 2020 04:45 PM (svbBD)

332 Northernlurker: "Will those statements be in Chinese?"

Probably wouldn't hold my breath there.

And Mark Cuban might as well have a hammer in one hand and a sickle in the other. Dude's so desperate to protect his expansion into Chinese markets, he's sucking Biden's nob like a bowl of ramen - the same Biden Cuban wouldn't let run a concession stand in his arena.

Posted by: AnonyBotymousDrivel at July 01, 2020 04:45 PM (HhXSr)

333
Kayleigh is a Springtime Vision today.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at July 01, 2020 04:45 PM (G51Gf)

334 That should be popular. Especially with Italian Americans, who are apparently now second class citizens.

I can't take all this courage and righteous action. This is just what the Republican electorate has been waiting for.

Honestly, is the DNC running the Republican campaign this cycle?
Posted by: Hesco Gypsy, staring from 457 meters at July 01, 2020 04:43 PM (njmkf)

It isn't just Italians. Santa Maria means St. Mary, and means a great deal to American Catholics.

Posted by: tcn in AK at July 01, 2020 04:45 PM (okGHj)

335 327 None of us would be here if not for Columbus, and damning his accomplishments and tearing his statue down makes as much sense as damning your parents for ever meeting
Posted by: JoeF. at July 01, 2020 04:34 PM (gtdYu)

I want to damn the parents of anyone who's in Antifa for ever meeting.

Posted by: Tom Servo at July 01, 2020 04:45 PM (Kpl3J)

336 244 What I see happening here, if you end QI, is what happens with TSA agents.

Cops will start bothering law-abiding people, just like TSA agents focus on law-abiding people, because law-abiding people are unlikely to wind up needing arresting and will not make trouble either way.

Meanwhile, they'll avoid high-crime perps. The people who will make trouble and will resist arrest and will have leftwing advocates filing lawsuits for.
Posted by: ace at July 01, 2020 04:29 PM (PbpT7)

===

Same with the politicians. Where I live, we have a serious problem with street people. So the local government spent a lot of time and effort to outlaw plastic bags.

Why bother tackling tough problems when there is so much posturing that can be done.

Posted by: jc at July 01, 2020 04:45 PM (PuMKG)

337 I know not related, but I love the Geico commercial with Marco Polo standing in the swimming pool:

Boy: Marco
Girl: Polo
Marco Polo (exasperated, in Italian), Kids, I'm right here!

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at July 01, 2020 04:45 PM (PiwSw)

338 Kayleigh just said the number arrested by the DOJ during the rioting is now over 300.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 01, 2020 04:46 PM (ZLI7S)

339 I'm not wearing a mask outside. Fuck that bullshit.

Posted by: ... at July 01, 2020 04:46 PM (B8RmS)

340 I'm ready and willing.

Posted by: Lucius Cornelius Sulla at July 01, 2020 04:46 PM (CLteG)

341 >None of us would be here if not for Columbus, and damning his
accomplishments and tearing his statue down makes as much sense as
damning your parents for ever meeting

I agree
It was unfortunate that when we got here to discover our country, there were people here already. Couldn't be helped, and what's done is done. America came to be, and the world is better for it.
Sorry to all the American Indians, other LIPs and all that, but groups of people have been displacing other groups of people ever since there were people.

Posted by: DB- just DB at July 01, 2020 04:46 PM (iTXRQ)

342 338

So about 0.01% of all rioters.

Posted by: Hotgas VIP Member at July 01, 2020 04:47 PM (SjAGT)

343 If I have to suffer then so do you. Bitch. <<<<<<<

I am glad you resisted being a stasi.

I have decided to take my chances on the police not bothering about the masks if it comes to it, and for retail stores I will just wear it around my neck if required.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 01, 2020 04:47 PM (r+sAi)

344 Why does reality have to be so messy and not abide by my pretty pretty theories?

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 04:45 PM (GbPPJ)

Mostly for the same reason I can't have tacos for breakfast every morning and expect to not have a butt with it's own zip code.

Posted by: tcn in AK at July 01, 2020 04:47 PM (okGHj)

345 Kayleigh is a Springtime Vision today.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at July 01, 2020 04:45 PM (G51Gf)

I'm watching that left sleeve fall off her shoulder and *chef kiss*

Posted by: ... at July 01, 2020 04:47 PM (B8RmS)

346 May as well just start shootin. Pretty sure that when half the country has no representation in government, and with this Republican Party we don't, then all that's left is revolution.

Notice that the Cowardly Mike Braun didn't include stripping away his own immunity. He probably doesn't even want to defund the slush fund congress uses to pay off their rape victims.

Posted by: Botched_Lobotomy at July 01, 2020 04:47 PM (lRrON)

347 I am just happy that we are getting all introspective about what's fucked up about America while Soros-paid rioters and looters are burning our country and forcing the erasure of history.

#losing

Posted by: deplorable unperson - Black Lives Matter is a terrorist organization at July 01, 2020 04:48 PM (luzVb)

348 The answer to Nuisance Lawsuits is Loser Pays, and Loser is required to post bond that he will forfeit at the outset of filing his case.

Of course that one change would shut down 90% of all lawsuits and 90% of the Legal industry overnight, so it can never happen.

Posted by: Tom Servo at July 01, 2020 04:48 PM (Kpl3J)

349 Let's start using Congress for bad law, jail parole boards for recidivism, judges for everything we can think of. Why should they get immunity when 90% of what they do is political

Posted by: CN at July 01, 2020 04:48 PM (ONvIw)

350 340 I'm ready and willing.
Posted by: Lucius Cornelius Sulla at July 01, 2020 04:46 PM (CLteG)

Got your list, and checking it twice?

Sulla proscribed not only his political enemies, but also wealthy people, because when they were executed their wealth went to the state.

(ponders ...)

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:48 PM (pmpob)

351 349 suing

Posted by: CN at July 01, 2020 04:48 PM (ONvIw)

352 None of us would be here if not for Columbus, and damning his accomplishments and tearing his statue down makes as much sense as damning your parents for ever meeting

Pish. Columbus was a fucktard who got as far as Hispaniola and thought he'd transversed the world. Everyone knew the world was round. One of the Greeks, I think Ptolemy, had calculated its girth to within a couple thousand miles.

It was an age of exploration and Cabato and Verrazano and Hudson and the people who actually saw the North American coast made it possible for us to be here.

What Columbus had going for him is luck and racial pride. In 1892 when the 400th anniversary of his first voyage was coming up America was teeming with Italian immigrants who wanted to stake a claim on American heritage and their ethnic pride.

Columbus was a nothing in history before that.

Now, Leif Erikkson...

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 01, 2020 04:48 PM (gd9RK)

353 thegatewaypundit.com/stunning faucis remdesivir costs 9$per dose will sold $3000 per dose china company linked soros will also mass produce drug

Posted by: Skip at July 01, 2020 04:49 PM (6f16T)

354 The answer to Nuisance Lawsuits is Loser Pays, and
Loser is required to post bond that he will forfeit at the outset of
filing his case.

Of course that one change would shut down 90% of all lawsuits and 90% of the Legal industry overnight, so it can never happen.

Posted by: Tom Servo at July 01, 2020 04:48 PM (Kpl3J)

Even if it happened, the Left would take advantage of it with their Hawaiian system forcing the aggrieved to not only *not* get justice but also to pay for their own torment.

Posted by: ... at July 01, 2020 04:50 PM (B8RmS)

355 Just imagine being an NBA player proudly wearing a jersey with a woke slogan on the back... that some child in China hand stitched until their fingers bled for a bowl of rice a day

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:51 PM (KZzsI)

356
WAR!!!!

NOW!!!

Posted by: Sapwolf at July 01, 2020 04:51 PM (nuv3n)

357 If we allow people to personally sue police for damages then we should include a "loser pays" rule -- say treble damages + attorney fees.

We cannot demand that one side have skin in the game and not the other.

Also it should be changed that any lawsuit suing a cop in his personal capacity shall include the chief law enforcement officer, the city council, the mayor, and the district attorney as parties in THEIR personal capacity.

Again -- skin in the game.

Posted by: nevyan at July 01, 2020 04:51 PM (a7HML)

358 Kayleigh shutdown Carl

Posted by: WisRich at July 01, 2020 04:51 PM (G0vdT)

359 Why does reality have to be so messy and not abide by my pretty pretty theories?

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 04:45 PM (GbPPJ)

Reality is a cold, hard bitch with a 14-inch strapon.

Posted by: Insomniac - Ex Cineribus Resurgo at July 01, 2020 04:51 PM (NWiLs)

360 300 is a drop in the bucket, and doesn't stop the leaders and financiers. Swatting flies.

And when a leader is caught, something happens and its not a trial

Posted by: CN at July 01, 2020 04:52 PM (ONvIw)

361 Tucker Carlson believes in 3 things : 1) America, 2) God, and 3) Lesbian porn.

Posted by: Dr Spank at July 01, 2020 04:52 PM (GXsiT)

362 Pish. Columbus was a fucktard who got as far as Hispaniola and thought he'd transversed the world. Everyone knew the world was round. One of the Greeks, I think Ptolemy, had calculated its girth to within a couple thousand miles.

It was an age of exploration and Cabato and Verrazano and Hudson and the people who actually saw the North American coast made it possible for us to be here.

What Columbus had going for him is luck and racial pride. In 1892 when the 400th anniversary of his first voyage was coming up America was teeming with Italian immigrants who wanted to stake a claim on American heritage and their ethnic pride.

Columbus was a nothing in history before that.

Now, Leif Erikkson...
Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 01, 2020 04:48 PM (gd9RK)

I don't think the case can be made that mass European colonization of the New World happened thanks to Leif Erikkson. Europeans did think this area was mostly empty water(and the distance too long to make it to Asia safely), so establishing that there was a place to travel to was pretty important.

Posted by: Someguy at July 01, 2020 04:52 PM (Zm+LZ)

363 Kayleigh shutdown Carl

Posted by: WisRich at July 01, 2020 04:51 PM (G0vdT)

"What's the name of the organization? Thank you."

She may as well have said "What's my name, bitch?"

Posted by: ... at July 01, 2020 04:52 PM (B8RmS)

364 Guy Mohawk I have resisted every attempt at making me wear that silly mask. But now it's mandatory. I did notice a few people had it on but down around their neck. So maybe I'll just wear it on my face to get into the store then say to hell with it. I'm just disgusted at the lies and bullshit people keep falling for.

Posted by: Jewells45feeling sad at July 01, 2020 04:52 PM (dUJdY)

365 Having Kayleigh at the podium adds a truckload of bitter angst to the f'n incels throwing stupid questions at her.

Jon Karl cries into his pillow every night.

Posted by: BluesFish at July 01, 2020 04:52 PM (ClkqF)

366 Let's start suing ... parole boards for recidivism ...
Posted by: CN at July 01, 2020 04:48 PM (ONvIw)/i]

No need to sue. My idea: make one member of the parole board, chosen at random, take any parolee into his home for a year as his manservant.

If you think the guy isn't a threat, let's see you put your ass on the line. Embezzler? Sure, no problem. Ax murderer? Uh ... lemme think about that one.

The moral hazard parole boards face is that they know that they won't personally suffer from making a mistake, someone somewhere else will. Are you literally willing to sleep under the same roof with this guy? Now THERE'S the operative question.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:53 PM (pmpob)

367 Pathetic.

Trump tweeted Mitch's HARD-HITTING NEW AD showing ..... toppled statues, defaced memorials, etc ...... with the theme "FIGHT BACK".

"FIGHT BACK"

"Police reform" - something not even mentioned in recent times, at the federal level, with the guns of loathsome racist freaks at everyone's heads

"Let's make Juneteenth a holiday!!!!" - ridiculous idea never heard of before, suddenly a big thing - with the guns of loathsome racist freaks at everyone's heads

So remember to "FIGHT BACK!" GOP voters.

The extremism and irresponsibility of the Dems has rendered the GOP completely untouchable, and able to pursue their worst with impunity.

What are you going to do, VOTE FOR THOSE GUYS?

Posted by: rhomboid at July 01, 2020 04:53 PM (El6T/)

368 Well President's Day should be shifted to Obama's
birthday, since Washington was a slaveholder. And Lincoln - whose
statues are being removed in some places, merely vandalized in others -
has many many many quotes that are scorchingly, crudely racist. And
Obama was historic, our first black president.

So make the damn change, GOP Senate.

People here should be "OK with it".

And FFS, *two* f***king holidays for the military, when US
involvement in war crimes is undeniable? Every disgusting monument to
American war crimes should be removed, or have a large plaque putting
them in the context of American criminality.

Maybe Braun can propose this as a 2nd-degree amendment to Lankford's amendment to Cornyn's bill?

Posted by: rhomboid at July 01, 2020 04:39 PM (El6T/)

That would be an easy one for the Senate Republicans since there is no federal holiday called President's Day. They could change it from Washington's Birthday to President's Day and very few would notice. Then again, politicians don't grandstand with the intent that people will not notice. But at this point, even the faux holiday "President's Day" would be problematic. Maybe they can make it "Democrat President's since JFK Day?"

Posted by: Quint at July 01, 2020 04:53 PM (hHxp2)

369 Walmart to stop selling All Lives Matter t-shirts due to pressure from those who don't like it.

Posted by: Skip at July 01, 2020 04:53 PM (6f16T)

370 >>> None of us would be here if not for Columbus, and damning his accomplishments and tearing his statue down makes as much sense as damning your parents for ever meeting

The only real discussion here, is the wake of a Columbus had a huge impact on indigenous tribes and civilizations.

It could have been the East instead of the west. Most likely Russia setting up shop in the Americas is Europe had stayed out. And if the Aztec empire somehow got some real metallurgy and gunpowder to fend them off they would have established an empire.

The question was never about the survival of tribal life in the Americas. It was never going to survive into the modern age. It was about which power faction would necessarily encounter it first as they expanded their control.

Posted by: mikethemoose at July 01, 2020 04:53 PM (Y6UV7)

371 Tucker Carlson believes in 3 things : 1) America, 2) God, and 3) Lesbian porn.
Posted by: Dr Spank at July 01, 2020 04:52 PM (GXsiT)

He gave up lesbian porn after AntiFa surounded his house trying to break in while his wife and kids were inside.

Posted by: always ahead of the curve at July 01, 2020 04:54 PM (cFwh0)

372 Speaking of Republican Deep State Cucks: Alumni 43 is a PAC of former GWB officials that will be endorsing and campaigning for Biden. The Bush official line is that they have nothing to do with this. Sure you don't Georgie.

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ybhwno4h

Posted by: Cheri at July 01, 2020 04:54 PM (oiNtH)

373 I love that little old lady challenging the Antifa BOY in the last video!

Posted by: pookysgirl, think thank thunk at July 01, 2020 04:54 PM (XKZwp)

374 Some cops are just mean hombres who will do a drive-by on your dog even when not on duty.

What then?

Posted by: Fritz at July 01, 2020 04:54 PM (dHPnP)

375 I'm watching that left sleeve fall off her shoulder and *chef kiss*

Posted by: ... at July 01, 2020 04:47 PM (B8RmS)

Summery....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 01, 2020 04:54 PM (dLLD6)

376

The answer to Nuisance Lawsuits is Loser Pays, and Loser is required to post bond that he will forfeit at the outset of filing his case.

Of course that one change would shut down 90% of all lawsuits and 90% of the Legal industry overnight, so it can never happen.
Posted by: Tom Servo

No, it's because there is no downside for the government in loser pays. It's not their money. Imagine if the cops flashbanged you house, killed your dog or a family member, and tore your belongings to pieces because they didn't double check an address. And then never have to pay because the case is just a LITTLE different. That's what Emmons allows.

Loser pays just means that if you get a shitty judge on a bad day on a 12(b)(6) motion, you not only have lost everything, but then are looking into an abyss of legal fees. A small, non-dischargeable fine? sure. But loser pays? Better make it personally liable for the government's defense attorneys, too.

Everyone hates plaintiffs' lawyers until they need one.

Posted by: imp at July 01, 2020 04:54 PM (SFOr6)

377 Republicans are also offering a bill to take away Columbus Day and replace it with Juneteenth.

Shouldn't we just roll MLK Day, Lincoln's Birthday, and Juneteenth into one big "Thank The Republican Party For Your Freedom" week?

Posted by: t-bird at July 01, 2020 04:55 PM (9Fwwf)

378 Columbus was a fucktard who got as far as Hispaniola and thought he'd transversed the world.

His calculations had the world too small and he lost track during storms, so its not completely unreasonable of him to think this was some remote outpost of the far east.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:55 PM (KZzsI)

379 361 Tucker Carlson believes in 3 things : 1) America, 2) God, and 3) Lesbian porn.
Posted by: Dr Spank at July 01, 2020 04:52 PM (GXsiT)

Everyone believes in lesbian porn.

Posted by: Insomniac - Ex Cineribus Resurgo at July 01, 2020 04:55 PM (NWiLs)

380 300 is a drop in the bucket, and doesn't stop the leaders and financiers. Swatting flies.

Yes and no. If the 300 get, say, five years apiece in a no-shit Federal lockup, that'll have a dampening effect on future recruiting, because now recruits figure that they'll pay no price (no jail time, and any fines being paid by the Red paymasters).

It lets the leaders and financiers off the hook, but it's at least a step in the right direction.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:55 PM (pmpob)

381 Here's a praciticality: THe minute you change a bright line to a fuzzy line you put someone through the massive cost of legal process, and, as I can attest, the left is highly adept at making the process the punishment.

If you say you have immunity, but not for "egregious" violations, you have opened everyone to suit, because what is "egregious" will have to be litigated. You can't get too many 12(b)(1) dismissals claiming that some act definitely was not "egregious" as a matter of law.

So pretty much every cop is going to trial whenever some scumbag wants him to.
Posted by: ace at July 01, 2020 04:40 PM (PbpT7)

And then there's that which is a whole other barrel of crack addicted monkeys who are also on meth.

Loser pays won't work because the people who will file the nuisance suits against cops are judgment proof. Hell, the vast majority of them will probably qualify to file in forma pauperis so they won't even be out the couple hundred bucks for filing and service fees.

Back to icky reality being icky and this is why I vidya.

I believe QI or Absolute Immunity against personal civil suits is necessary as is with the exception that a civil suit can be brought if the subject is criminally charged.
Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 01, 2020 04:40 PM (SEnIW)

Convicted. Criminally convicted. See re: Flynn on the dangers of basing it on charging only.

Hell, I would be willing to say QI but here's the schedule of fines if you are criminally convicted.

Also, see, Horde, this has turned into an interesting discussion wherein we are muddling towards some kind of understanding of each other's view.

Group hug! [Return of hands from where they are placed upon various and sundry body parts not guaranteed]

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 04:55 PM (GbPPJ)

382 So a Senator who represents 3.425 million people and who was a'fearin' Chuck Schumer and so being a pussy, is not more of a pussy now because he's a'fearin' Tucker Carlson, who has 3.6 million viewers?

Having a hard time figuring out which of Mike Braun's puss-outs I should be excited about.

Posted by: Sharkman at July 01, 2020 04:57 PM (BM2fS)

383
Group hug! [Return of hands from where they are placed upon various and sundry body parts not guaranteed]

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 04:55 PM (GbPPJ)

Now we're getting somewhere...

Posted by: Insomniac - Ex Cineribus Resurgo at July 01, 2020 04:57 PM (NWiLs)

384 Everyone believes in lesbian porn.
Posted by: Insomniac - Ex Cineribus Resurgo

Believes and studies.

Posted by: Dr Spank at July 01, 2020 04:57 PM (GXsiT)

385 Me too Jewells. The whole thing is a giant con. As soon as the economy started opening up there were riots, as soon as people started getting pissed about it, well what do you know, cases rising we must all wear masks. Next up is closing schools and college in the fall I believe. And I will say any bill in congress right now is about somehow transferring wealth from the middle class to the rich and poor.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 01, 2020 04:57 PM (r+sAi)

386 The biggest mistake Trump has made (and it's a doozy) is letting the deep state talk him into signining the national emergency order over an obvious political scam which led governors to shut down the country.

Posted by: Sooner - White Blue-eyed Debil at July 01, 2020 04:57 PM (AS4zc)

387 Having a hard time figuring out which of Mike Braun's puss-outs I should be excited about.

What if he's not afraid of Tucker, but instead was... convinced by him?

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:58 PM (KZzsI)

388 Group hug! [Return of hands from where they are placed upon various and sundry body parts not guaranteed]/i]

*hover hands hug*

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:58 PM (KZzsI)

389 Posted by: Huck Follywood, hunker in the bunker at July 01, 2020 04:32 PM (cMhK0)
*******
Truth Hurts

Posted by: Ghost Of Qassem Soleimani at July 01, 2020 04:58 PM (gicF5)

390 Kayleigh just said the number arrested by the DOJ during the rioting is now over 300.
Posted by: JackStraw at July 01, 2020 04:46 PM (ZLI7S)
~~~~~

Do the "no bail" laws apply to them?

I really, really hope their cases don't get tossed like the ones after the inauguration.

Posted by: IrishEi at July 01, 2020 04:58 PM (sGotD)

391 Columbus was a fucktard who got as far as Hispaniola and thought he'd transversed the world.

His GPS wasn't working.

Srsly, in retrospect, everything is obvious. As a prosaic example, walk through your house on a dark night with the lights off. Did you bash your shin on a coffee table? Good bet. And yet you KNOW there's a coffee table there somewhere, you just misjudged exactly where it is.

Now consider doing the same thing in a strange house.

Once you flick the lights on, the location of everything is obvious. That doesn't mean you were stupid to crash into things in the dark.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 04:59 PM (pmpob)

392 "And a city or state has much deeper pockets than a cop making $65,000 per year."

And the city just sucks the money from the taxpayer to pay for it, so you're suing yourself. (Point #1)

Also, if the *city* is the one with the bad policy, then it's right to sue the city. If it's *THE COP* who done wrong, why should the city have to pay?

Sorry, but no, qualified immunity needs to be severely weakened. (It should not cease to exist. But it should be severely curtailed.)

Posted by: GWB at July 01, 2020 04:59 PM (mRtYs)

393 I don't think the case can be made that mass European colonization of the New World happened thanks to Leif Erikkson.

Iceland was in contact with Europe. The Vatican (what is in Rome) appointed a Henrik Bishop to Iceland, Greenland, and Vinland in the 1100s. That means the existence and possible habitation of the New World was known in southern Europe.

The Vinland Map, highly disputed, I believe is real. It dates from 100 years before Columbus and was likewise in the Vatican.

More recently, the Basques were fishing the Grand Banks and drying their cod on the shores of Nova Scotia and Labrador way before Columbus. The Bristol merchants they sold fish to mocked Columbus' "discovery".

The Vikings eventually got tired of being murdered by Injuns, but they overwintered for several years and had a thriving lumber trade between North America and Sweden.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 01, 2020 04:59 PM (gd9RK)

394 Me too Jewells. The whole thing is a giant con. As soon as the economy
started opening up there were riots, as soon as people started getting
pissed about it, well what do you know, cases rising we must all wear
masks

"Ya fucked up! You trusted us!"

Posted by: "Otter" Fauci, M.D. - genyus, expert, Remdesivir investor at July 01, 2020 04:59 PM (luzVb)

395 *hover hands hug*
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 04:58 PM (KZzsI)

Presume any one of the Bee articles on the holy side hug here.

Also why are we arguing about Leif Erickson vs. Columbus. Everyone knows it was aliens.

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 04:59 PM (GbPPJ)

396 Group hug! [Return of hands from where they are placed upon various and sundry body parts not guaranteed]

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 04:55 PM (GbPPJ)
It was worth it!

Posted by: The Stump at July 01, 2020 05:00 PM (B8RmS)

397 Next up is closing schools and college in the fall I believe.

Wait til they try to cancel football.

Posted by: Jewells45feeling sad at July 01, 2020 05:00 PM (dUJdY)

398 Kaylee looking so hot with the dress sliding off her shoulder, i'm going to have to spend some time in my bunk...

Posted by: SturmToddler at July 01, 2020 05:00 PM (+NdM9)

399 >>Do the "no bail" laws apply to them?

>>I really, really hope their cases don't get tossed like the ones after the inauguration.

Some at least. The morons in NYC who firebombed the police cars were denied bail.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 01, 2020 05:00 PM (ZLI7S)

400 390 Kayleigh just said the number arrested by the DOJ during the rioting is now over 300.
Posted by: JackStraw at July 01, 2020 04:46 PM (ZLI7S)
~~~~~

Do the "no bail" laws apply to them?

I really, really hope their cases don't get tossed like the ones after the inauguration.
Posted by: IrishEi at July 01, 2020 04:58 PM (sGotD)

==========

These are federal charges. No, no bail does not apply.

These people are probably looking at a minimum of 10 years each.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting terrorist in Nakatomi Tower at July 01, 2020 05:01 PM (LvTSG)

401 NOOD

Posted by: Skip, the guy who says NOOD at July 01, 2020 05:01 PM (6f16T)

402 ...
Removing qualified immunity will end policing forever. No cop, especially a new hire, has the money to defend himself from constant lawsuits.

People will leave the job in droves and no one will join the department again.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 01, 2020 04:37 PM (AFSld)

This is what drove school teachers into unions.
Liberal, 60s and early 70s, judges began to allow frivolous lawsuits against teachers.
Teachers could not afford to defend themselves.

School districts would not support the teachers or provide legal assistance. Teachers were independent professionals.

Unions stepped in, said join us and we will take your case.

Posted by: Braenyard at July 01, 2020 05:01 PM (Zktzy)

403 Braun is an absolute pissant fuckbag of a mewling diseased twat waffle who should die in a fire fueled by dogshit and horse piss.

Have I made my feelings clear? I can never be certain.

Posted by: Two Weeks From Eating Low Carb Cheetos at July 01, 2020 05:01 PM (+dsLj)

404 It amazes me how so many are willing to give up Columbus so easily. The holiday is about the spirit of adventure and exploration that led to this country. People on the left don't care about the details of this one man, they hate that the nation was founded. The holiday is about the spark that led to the founding of the nation.

Columbus Day has only been a federal holiday since 1968. People act like it is some horrid relic of a terrible past. I wonder if some traditional Dem voters are getting about sick of the attacks on Columbus Day.

Posted by: Quint at July 01, 2020 05:02 PM (hHxp2)

405 Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 04:35 PM (GbPPJ)

"I believe QI or Absolute Immunity against personal civil suits is
necessary as is with the exception that a civil suit can be brought if
the subject is criminally charged"

Won't change anything. Amy Klobuchar refused to prosecute Derek Chauvin when she had the chance. One hand washes the other.

Posted by: AMartel at July 01, 2020 05:02 PM (WWgnZ)

406
Columbus was a nothing in history before that.

Now, Leif Erikkson...
Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 01, 2020 04:48 PM (gd9RK)

America has had more sketchy Europeans explore her than your mom during her semester abroad.

As for Columbus, he sought to challenge conventional knowledge and prove it wrong, and in doing so he changed the course of history. That is worthy of honors.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at July 01, 2020 05:02 PM (wCmLp)

407 Presume any one of the Bee articles on the holy side hug here.

That way there's no tempting naughty bits touching

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 05:02 PM (KZzsI)

408 "to the extent reducing qualified immunity has any effect at all ... the effect will be that cops simply stop doing their jobs."

If that's the case, then maybe we DO need to defund cops and let the country devolve into a state of anarchy. If cops stop doing their jobs because they're getting successfully sued for violating people's civil rights, then they SHOULD stop doing their jobs. Let someone else step in and take over, because **they're doing it wrong**.

Posted by: GWB at July 01, 2020 05:02 PM (mRtYs)

409 Kayleigh just said the number arrested by the DOJ during the rioting is now over 300.
Posted by: JackStraw at July 01, 2020 04:46 PM (ZLI7S)
~~~~~

Do the "no bail" laws apply to them?

Door should be open. Bail if you want to.

Posted by: Pilot, Pinochet Airlines at July 01, 2020 05:02 PM (ELgVT)

410 Loser pays won't work because the people who will file the nuisance suits against cops are judgment proof. Hell, the vast majority of them will probably qualify to file in forma pauperis so they won't even be out the couple hundred bucks for filing and service fees.

Good point, but how about this? To file a civil case, the plaintiff has to post a bond. Now if the plaintiff's counsel thinks it is a good case, he can post the bond. That's fine.

But someone who's involved in filing the case has skin in the game.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 05:02 PM (pmpob)

411 Planned Parenthood doesn't burn the babies becasue that would be an offering to Moloch, which is a sin. This way the organs go to something "good", plus they make money. See how that works. This is what our Ruling and Donor Class believe and how they think.
That is the level of reasoning we are dealing with. Christians better start becoming as wise as serpents (know your enemies).

Posted by: always ahead of the curve at July 01, 2020 05:02 PM (cFwh0)

412 Kay Kay in a $4000 sundress showing a demure left shoulder. Re defining the job. When asked question off topic she rolls out an extensive notebook to rebut the adversarial units question.

Posted by: Redenzo at July 01, 2020 05:03 PM (E7vND)

413 Mob attacks firefighters rendering medical aid to a motorcycle crash victim in VA Beach.

I think we need more EOs and more GOP "reform" initiatives, the august populace is not satisfied.

Oh, and Sen Scott took time out from weeping to insist that renaming military bases be pushed, even with a veto threat. Now THERE'S a statesman and leader of the sort the GOP and nation need.

Posted by: rhomboid at July 01, 2020 05:03 PM (El6T/)

414 Thought : Are the Draconian Mask Orders an admission from Blue Governors that they can't shut everything back down again?

Posted by: Allie at July 01, 2020 05:03 PM (vmRc0)

415 As for Columbus, he sought to challenge conventional knowledge and prove it wrong, and in doing so he changed the course of history. That is worthy of honors.
Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at July 01, 2020 05:02 PM (wCmLp)

And he did so at the risk of his life.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 05:03 PM (pmpob)

416 There is always one crazy person at the city gate who is proclaiming the truth while the leaders dither and waffle in the wind.

Gotta say, bucking the Commie leadership at Fox News indicates a kind of devil may care attitude.

Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at July 01, 2020 05:04 PM (e1mEI)

417 I've litigated wrongful shooting and wrongful search and seizure and Ace is wrong about just filing against the agency. Filing against the agency results in sovereign immunity. For instance, the sheriff is an agency of the state of california which enjoys sovereign immunity. Second, if the cops had insurance, the insurance companies would exert their renewal and rate powers over the departments to make them comply with steps to reduce the unnecessary use of force. Third, qualified immunity was imposed on us by the Supreme Court not by an act of Congress. Fourth, the abuse by police of the citizenry while being protected by qualified immunity is abomination. It needs to be gone.

Posted by: Schlichter wannabe at July 01, 2020 05:04 PM (UBIJM)

418 According to the Sydney Powell interview yesterday, Federal Prosecutors have Absolute Immunity ...

Why don't we start on reducing that to qualified?
Posted by: Adriane the Legle Beagle Critic ... at July 01, 2020 03:59 PM (LPnfS)

As do judges.

Posted by: Agitator at July 01, 2020 05:04 PM (y/e6R)

419 393 "I don't think the case can be made that mass European colonization of the New World happened thanks to Leif Erikkson."

Iceland was in contact with Europe. The Vatican (what is in Rome) appointed a Henrik Bishop to Iceland, Greenland, and Vinland in the 1100s. That means the existence and possible habitation of the New World was known in southern Europe.

The Vinland Map, highly disputed, I believe is real. It dates from 100 years before Columbus and was likewise in the Vatican.

More recently, the Basques were fishing the Grand Banks and drying their cod on the shores of Nova Scotia and Labrador way before Columbus. The Bristol merchants they sold fish to mocked Columbus' "discovery".

The Vikings eventually got tired of being murdered by Injuns, but they overwintered for several years and had a thriving lumber trade between North America and Sweden.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 01, 2020 04:59 PM (gd9RK)

The Vinland map however has emptiness where Columbus found land. The discovery of the Caribbean, which lead to further discoveries of the North American and South American landmasses, was critical to how things played out. People had good reason to think Columbus would run out of supplies well before arriving at India.

Posted by: Someguy at July 01, 2020 05:04 PM (Zm+LZ)

420 The morons in NYC who firebombed the police cars were denied bail. <<<<<
Nope, released.

https://tinyurl.com/yco34eta

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 01, 2020 05:04 PM (r+sAi)

421

Convicted. Criminally convicted. See re: Flynn on the dangers of basing it on charging only.

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria

No, because criminal convictions require an aggressive DA and a judge who is honest. Neither of which have been my universal experience.

The only way that people change is to hit them in the checkbook. Losing a Section 1983 lawsuit should come with a 25% reduction in pay to the government official (including teachers, who are by far more molest-y than cops) along with a reduction in pay to the administrators involved where there is Monell liability.

Suing the government is like fighting the tide, until the dollar values get high enough that people start to see budget impacts. Once you start hitting 7 or 8 figure cases, even the largest departments/districts start to improve their policies.

Remember, liability under 1983 is also extremely difficult to establish, since it has to be "deliberate indifference" not simply negligence. The abandonment of respondeat superior liability and negligence liability in Section 1983 suits is a large part of the problem with actually holding government agents and agencies to account.

Posted by: imp at July 01, 2020 05:05 PM (SFOr6)

422 Sen. Braun shouldn't have filed that bill in the first place because the United States does NOT feature a unitary government.

Does Mr. Braun know the difference between a unitary government and a federal government? Do most Americans, for that matter?

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at July 01, 2020 05:06 PM (ejsiI)

423 Posted by: JackStraw at July 01, 2020 04:46 PM (ZLI7S)
*******
Sure they will all get a sternly worded letter....... Right ?

Posted by: Ghost Of Qassem Soleimani at July 01, 2020 05:09 PM (Y8itH)

424
Guaranteed unions would work indemnification clauses in to any work contract.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at July 01, 2020 03:51 PM (cnTJD)

One great way to force the police to respect the people who pay their bills at long last is to end all police unions.

Remember: the next time you thank a police officer for the job they do, they will respond - by simply spitting in your face.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at July 01, 2020 05:09 PM (ejsiI)

425 In regards to QI for prosecutors: Let's bring back trial by hand-to-hand combat.

Posted by: RoyalOil at July 01, 2020 05:11 PM (aO8Gd)

426

Does Mr. Braun know the difference between a unitary government and a federal government? Do most Americans, for that matter?
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33

Do you know the difference between a federal statute and everything else?

Qualified immunity is a doctrine in 42 USC Sec. 1983 cases and in a few associated areas of law. It has nothing to do with state law (unless states adopt their own version of it to deal with state causes of action.

Section 1983 is part of th civil rights acts, passed to stop the KKK from attacking freed slaves in the South. It is a federal cause of action that may be brought in federal or state courts, but not against states, only against "persons", which includes most municipalities (but not all, as some counties and school districts are considered arms of the state).

Spouting off about misunderstanding the basic structure of the law when you are yourself clueless is delightfully ironic, though, so proceed!

Posted by: imp at July 01, 2020 05:11 PM (SFOr6)

427 I think you're almost there. You don't hold the police officers responsible. You hold the commissioner, the mayor, and the highest authorities responsible.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 01, 2020 03:55 PM (KZzsI)

Because, well, hey - THE POLICE OFFICER WERE JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS!!! (Where have we heard that line of reasoning before?)

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at July 01, 2020 05:13 PM (ejsiI)

428 Iceland was in contact with Europe. The Vatican
(what is in Rome) appointed a Henrik Bishop to Iceland, Greenland, and
Vinland in the 1100s. That means the existence and possible habitation
of the New World was known in southern Europe.

The Vinland Map, highly disputed, I believe is real. It dates from 100 years before Columbus and was likewise in the Vatican.

More recently, the Basques were fishing the Grand Banks and drying
their cod on the shores of Nova Scotia and Labrador way before Columbus.
The Bristol merchants they sold fish to mocked Columbus' "discovery".

The Vikings eventually got tired of being murdered by Injuns, but
they overwintered for several years and had a thriving lumber trade
between North America and Sweden.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 01, 2020 04:59 PM

---

It's pretty much established fact that the Vikings got to North America long before anyone else from Europe did.

What's not established is why they left.

Some speculate like you that the natives kept killing them, others blame disease or misfortune.

But for whatever reason, the Norsemen came to North America and stayed for some years and then left to never return.

And yes the Church knew about the Americas but they thought it was just part of the Norse mythology and disregarded it. Describing it as part of the Sagas.

Posted by: Mr. Scott (Formerly GWS) at July 01, 2020 05:13 PM (JUOKG)

429 368---That would be an easy one for the Senate Republicans since there is no federal holiday called President's Day. They could change it from Washington's Birthday to President's Day and very few would notice.
Posted by: Quint at July 01, 2020 04:53 PM (hHxp2)
-------------------------------------
No one would notice because EVERYONE already calls it Presidents Day and we are led to believe it celebrates all presidents, whether Buchanan to dearest Obama.
So Washington has already been demoted to a nothing.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at July 01, 2020 05:14 PM (M/9m0)

430 Ace: If you want to sue the cop personally, you're just looking for vengeance.

*********

Well, yeah, sure.

Sometimes it is justified.

Look, we all get (or should get) that certain people (cops, soldiers, emts, doctors, etc) sometimes have to make split second life or death decisions. And if it goes wrong...that is part of life. I understand and accept that.

But sometimes decisions get made out of malice. And I don't accept that.

Cop came to my door one night. I stepped outside and closed my door behind me. He said words to the effect of "I got a report someone in the neighborhood got bit. They said it is your dog. I need you to bring me your dog."

I say "why?".

He goes "so I can evaluate it to see if it has rabies."

I think to myself "a cop isn't trained in veterinary science, he's not qualified to do that. And I know too many dogs getting shot by cops in questionable situations."

So I say "I'm not bringing my dog outside for you to observe."

He goes "Well, how 'bout I go in your house to examine the dog?"

"No" says I. "But you can look at the dog through the window while my wife holds it if you like."

"No" says the cop. "I'm going to check out your dog in person."

"Not happening" says I.

"Either me or Animal Control is going to be looking at that dog. Your choice. I'm easy. Animal control is hard."

"OK, I choose Animal Control."

So then the cop says fine...but he calls/or someone calls for backup...because then three more cop cars show up.

I get patted down for weapons...and made to sit down in my drive way for about 40 minutes. Cop asks if I have license and rabies certificate for the dog. I do, and I have my wife bring out the paperwork. A bunch of cop statements are made that I'm being a pain in the ass, just let us in the house, or bring out the dog and let us examine him for rabies, etc, etc, etc.

I always reply that no thanks, nothing against you guys, but I'm going to take the option of letting animal control handle this.

Now, so far...I've been patted down, made to sit on the ground the whole time in front of the neighborhood, and basically been given the whole "why aren't you cooperating with us?" No big deal. I'm not taking it personal. Not causing a fuss, just saying let's let Animal Control handle this.

Now, the current cop who is handling me...I consider him to be acting in a hard ass/low level asshole way. But...no big deal. I'm really not upset. It's just a moment in time. And although I do think he is being a *bit* of an asshole, it is what it is. Customer service sometimes sucks, but oh well. Life goes on.

And the two or three other cops who are standing around on scene aren't doing or saying anything. They just are chilling/being backup/securing the scene. No problem.

But then some other cop shows up on scene.

He takes it right to the next level. He gets right in my face and starts yelling at me that I'm an asshole and he's going to kill my dog if I don't stop fucking around. He also promises to tell all my neighbors what a piece of shit I am. Starts walking up and down the street yelling about me.

OK...

So long story short...I just say "I'm gonna let Animal Control handle it."

They show up, I bring my dog out on a leash to them, my dog is wagging it's tail and has his usual big goofy grin on his face, and Animal Control takes him into custody.

They (Animal Control) put him in the van and say, "OK, we can't say if he did or didn't bite someone, and we see he has his rabies shots, but protocol says we have to put him under observation for 10 days for rabies just in case."

I say fine, no problem, have a nice night.

And I get my dog back 10 days later.

Now...the first cop who was sweating me? He kinda relaxed when he saw my dog...seemed to warm to him, cuz he is a goofy ass dog, and mentioned he was an animal lover too, had his own pit bull...etc. So I can feel where he was coming from, and I have no real beef with him.

So, if I had filed some sort of lawsuit over this (and it would have been a weak ass lawsuit), I wouldn't have held anything against him. Yeah, he tried to sweat me with a bunch of bullshit, had me sitting on the ground with a bunch of bright cop lights on me in front of my house, patted me down, but, hey, so it goes.

But...if that raging cocksucker cop, who threatened to kill my dog had followed through by kicking down the door and shooting him had actually done so?

I would have wanted *that* guy...personally...not just the city...to suffer.

So a lawsuit that took money out of *his* pocket would have been just fine with me.

And hey, lawsuits are the *civilized* way of handling disputes and torts, right?

I mean, it's either that, or the law of the jungle, right?

Posted by: El Jefe ~ Blue Zones POW MIA ~ You Are Not Forgotten ~ at July 01, 2020 05:16 PM (Ae67h)

431 I like the democrats in masks. Ez on the eyes.

Posted by: azalea city at July 01, 2020 05:19 PM (WX+x0)

432 Do you know the difference between a federal statute and everything else?

Qualified immunity is a doctrine in 42 USC Sec. 1983 cases and in a few associated areas of law. It has nothing to do with state law (unless states adopt their own version of it to deal with state causes of action.

Section 1983 is part of th civil rights acts, passed to stop the KKK from attacking freed slaves in the South. It is a federal cause of action that may be brought in federal or state courts, but not against states, only against "persons", which includes most municipalities (but not all, as some counties and school districts are considered arms of the state).

Spouting off about misunderstanding the basic structure of the law when you are yourself clueless is delightfully ironic, though, so proceed!
Posted by: imp at July 01, 2020 05:11 PM (SFOr6)

So the Texas Department of Public Safety answers to Washington, DC and not Austin?

My county sheriff is not in fact a county sheriff but does in fact answer directly to Washington, DC?

The nearest town police department answers to DC and not to the town nor the State of Texas?

I feel enlightened already!

imp, go look up "federal government", and then "unitary government", and get back to me. Quote law to me until you are blue in the face, but that does not alter the fact that about 95% of all law enforcement matters happen on the state and local levels. You are quite clueless to this fact, but don't let that stop you from scolding and lecturing me. People like you are why we are in the state we are in now. Go embrace the federal system before it is too late.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at July 01, 2020 05:19 PM (ejsiI)

433 And Wyatt, if you read my comment, I have nothing but love and respect for you.

I'm not bashing the Blue or you or expecting you to answer for every asshole on the force.

Posted by: El Jefe ~ Blue Zones POW MIA ~ You Are Not Forgotten ~ at July 01, 2020 05:23 PM (Ae67h)

434

So the Texas Department of Public Safety answers to Washington, DC and not Austin?

My county sheriff is not in fact a county sheriff but does in fact answer directly to Washington, DC?

The nearest town police department answers to DC and not to the town nor the State of Texas?

I feel enlightened already!

imp, go look up "federal government", and then "unitary government", and get back to me. Quote law to me until you are blue in the face, but that does not alter the fact that about 95% of all law enforcement matters happen on the state and local levels. You are quite clueless to this fact, but don't let that stop you from scolding and lecturing me. People like you are why we are in the state we are in now. Go embrace the federal system before it is too late.
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33

What the fuck are you even talking about?

Are you on medication of some sort? If not, you should try it.

Federal law governs even local government employees since the enacting of the Fourteenth Amendment to prevent just the kind of things that happened during Reconstruction. Incorporation of the bill of rights is why Chicago cannot ban guns, much as it wants to. We are a federal system with nationally-guaranteed rights of a free people, including the right to be free from lawless "law enforcement."

If you have a problem with how the Civil War turned out, feel free to build a time machine and go back to change it. Until then, kiss my ass.

Posted by: imp at July 01, 2020 05:34 PM (SFOr6)

435 And he did so at the risk of his life.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at July 01, 2020 05:03 PM (pmpob)

As well as the risk to three ships' worth of crewmen. They weren't leading the thing (and didn't get Isabel to finance it), but they deserve a little credit.

Oh, and Columbus gets a little bit of notoriety, too, for thinking the world was really that small that he had made it to India. Math is hard.

Posted by: GWB at July 01, 2020 05:37 PM (mRtYs)

436 The emotional push for ending QI for individual cops is not a good idea. But if you look at the situation, it's easy to understand where it's coming from.
How are lawsuits against the principals going? Last December, a bunch of federal dimbulbs did a no-knock on a house, shot the woman in side, looking for a guy who was in jail. And hadn't been at that address anyway. The woman, Ann Rylee, was shot five times. Any news on the lawsuit? I haven't been able to find who's paying the medical bills.
If a prosecutor gets a conviction by withholding exculpatory evidence, what do you call him? Judge. QI applies to him, too.
If the fantasy about suing the principle were anything but fairy dust, we probably wouldn't be hearing about this misguided effort now.

Posted by: Richard Aubrey at July 01, 2020 05:52 PM (kvDZa)

437 I would rather the cops are given a choice of qualified immunity but only for non-union cops. Union cops should have to prove proof of insurance.
Second, whenever a jury finds wrong doing by a cop but the local government pays, there should be an automatic internal investigation, with a forced open final report within one year or the local government pays double.

Something needs to be done about the really bad cop who is fired. They often need a felony conviction with a one day sentence in the local lockup. The felony conviction is needed so they can never work in law enforcement again. Too many times these guys just move onto a different agency like the Catholic Church moved molesting priests on to a different parish.

Posted by: FlimFlammed at July 01, 2020 05:52 PM (ZTDnL)

438 Federal law governs even local government employees
since the enacting of the Fourteenth Amendment

Posted by: imp at July 01, 2020 05:34 PM (SFOr6)

Uhhh, no. The 14th Amendment incorporates CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS at the state level. It does NOT have ANY influence on federal **law**. That is still restricted in scope and authority by that very same Constitution and its various Amendments.

Posted by: GWB at July 01, 2020 05:53 PM (mRtYs)

439 The answer is to end qualified immunity for ALL government officials, not just police. Prosecutors, judges, mayors, all need to feel the heat of their own actions.

Posted by: Joe Bar at July 01, 2020 05:57 PM (lZMlv)

440 @337
Do not look up Lemon Party, trust me.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at July 01, 2020 06:02 PM (HQynW)

441 No.shit im looking for revenge if a cop.shoots my dog. Just because blm is filled with marxists retards doesn't mean that there aren't a ton of shitty cops out there.

Posted by: Jones at July 01, 2020 06:05 PM (xWxWq)

442 What seems to work as we saw in Seattle is that if you make the elites uncomfortable they will respond. I suggest starting with surrounding the homes of all scumbag politicians until they do something about the mob.

Posted by: james at July 01, 2020 06:09 PM (MNBUP)

443 States have sovereign immunity from suits brought by citizens of other states (someone from New York can't sue Georgia - for example) and foreign nationals (A Frenchman can't sue Georgia either) by the 11th Amendment.

The Supreme Court prenumbraed or postnumbraed that into extending to all citizens, even Georgians, removing once and for all our Bill of Rights enshrined right to petition government for redress of grievances.

The only means of enforcing civil liberty violations mentioned specifically in the Bill of Right. Gone.
Null and void.
Dead letter.
First 10 Amendments rendered moot, by the 11th Amendment, which was written and adopted during George Washington's second term in office.

Georgia decided they were a sovereign country. With their own flag, a navy, and the like. That they didn't have to pay for goods and services they received from some South Carolinian.
Threatened to form their own "autonomous zone"; a Georgia CHOP if you will, if the rest of the country didn't reneg on the Bill of Rights.

Guess what happened?

Posted by: JaMayeau at July 01, 2020 06:12 PM (SYEvH)

444 Also, see, Horde, this has turned into an interesting discussion wherein we are muddling towards some kind of understanding of each other's view.

Group hug! [Return of hands from where they are placed upon various and sundry body parts not guaranteed]

Posted by: alexthechick - Boobs and hysteria at July 01, 2020 04:55 PM (GbPPJ)

*****

I don't know what sundry means...

Posted by: El Jefe ~ Blue Zones POW MIA ~ You Are Not Forgotten ~ at July 01, 2020 06:33 PM (Ae67h)

445 John Roberts would have called it a "tax".

But Chief Justice John Jay (the first one we ever had) he cared about right and wrong. He helped write the constitution. He knew what was in it.

John Jay said, "Cease this riotous assembly at once. Pay the man his money."

The rest of the states were shocked. They were governed by a bunch of self serving shysters and con men looking for ways to rip off the little guy, just like the governments we have today.

So, instead of sending an army, or US Marshall, down to Georgia, to enforce the ruling of the SC, they decided to amend the constitution, broom this pesky "rights of the citizens" business right up front.

So passed the 11th Amendment.

And NO! If the state trooper comes to your house, gun downs your dog, your cat, your two goldfish, and first born, YOU as private citizen CAN NOT file suit against the state.

Dude that wrote this article is ignorant of the law.

Posted by: JaMayeau at July 01, 2020 06:49 PM (SYEvH)

446 What's wrong with vengeance?

Posted by: Dogbert at July 01, 2020 07:03 PM (+dTjI)

447 Take it from an attorney - it is incredibly difficult to sue the city/county/state for a police officer's misconduct. First you have to find an attorney who will take the case, which is not easy because there is very little chance of succeeding. If you do find one, then you have to get past summary judgment. Most lawsuits die at this stage. The plaintiff has to prove that there was a clear case on point previously that said the cop can't do what he did this time. Police know this. They know that they are virtually untouchable in civil court. They are not accountable. The city/county/state is not accountable. The victim of police brutality is left without recourse. QI must go.

Posted by: BG at July 01, 2020 07:47 PM (T/h3j)

448 BG As I said earlier, removing QI for cops is an emotional reaction to the impossibility of getting any justice from the principal--the State.
It's a bad idea, but the point is....what else is somebody going to do?
A no-knock raid at the wrong house.....according to the State, eff you and your busted up house and dead dog. That's going to cause a reaction, whether useful or not.

Posted by: Richard Aubrey at July 01, 2020 07:59 PM (kvDZa)

449 I somewhat agree that qualified immunity sould be stripped, as if as you say a cop kills your dog because they are a crappy cop why should tax payers be on the hook for his crime. The problem i see is that criminals already make complaints and sue every cop that arrests them, so removing immunity from the officer will make it harder on them, especially if the union then decides that the cop should have to then find and pay for their own representation, it'll run many good cops out of the job because they know every arrest will end up with them in court, even if they did nothing wrong.

This all starts with the fact the government settles with every criminal that sues them, as they know that anything under $20k ends up costing less than going to trial. If governments didn't give in to this extortion and judges actually started to rule based on law, maybe there could be a good faith discussion about removing the protection.

But let's do a trial run and remove the immunity for government officials first. Let's make sure they are held personally responsible for their actions, starting with Cuomo and Wilhelm.

Posted by: Rbastid at July 01, 2020 09:54 PM (xeL/n)

450 Its bad enough to have Ryan, McConnell, McCain, Gowdy and these country club Republicans who can't wait to line their pockets. But the worst are those who claim to be Republicans but are Demirats, Romney comes to mind, weak kneed, shameless, cowardly. The Bushes, and their followers.

Posted by: I am not corey Booker at July 01, 2020 10:25 PM (Ju2mK)

451 Thanks, Alexthechick! Looking up every reference in the Thomas dissent ate up my whole day!

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