Trump and Barr Statement on Census Citizenship Question; <br>No Question on Census, But Departments are Ordered to Turn Over all Relevant Records on Citizens and Illegals to Attempt to Resolve the Question

Trump and Barr Statement on Census Citizenship Question;
No Question on Census, But Departments are Ordered to Turn Over all Relevant Records on Citizens and Illegals to Attempt to Resolve the Question

In progress; you'll have to scan back to find Trump's statement. Barr is speaking now.

Trump is ordering agencies to turn over all information relating to citizenship of those living in the US. Apparently the question will not be put on the census. They'll just try to figure out how many illegals there are from other records.

Very meh.

Posted by: Ace of Spades at 05:48 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 We shall see.

Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 05:49 PM (13dPG)

2 Don't fuck me on this, Mr. President...

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, LOL, get fucked at July 11, 2019 05:49 PM (RIoPT)

3 TRUMP!

Posted by: MAGA at July 11, 2019 05:50 PM (2BrFd)

4 Unconstitutional, you can only count 'persons'.
No where is it authorized to count 'citizens'.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 11, 2019 05:50 PM (1g7ch)

5 unprecedented.

Posted by: Quint at July 11, 2019 05:51 PM (n13/j)

6 Boom. I bet they wished they hadn't challenged the census question. Lolgf

Posted by: Marcus T at July 11, 2019 05:51 PM (oh2fB)

7 Stroke of the pen, law of the land. How'd ya like them apples, Begala?

Posted by: Frasier Crane (I'm coming back!) at July 11, 2019 05:51 PM (M1mqc)

8

This is better.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 05:51 PM (vEIlU)

9 I don't see any legitimate legal action stopping this process.

Posted by: Marcus T at July 11, 2019 05:51 PM (oh2fB)

10 This is better.

+1

Posted by: Basement Cat at July 11, 2019 05:52 PM (pPNCa)

11 Trump brought is Chief Justice Roberts and gave him a wedgy.

Posted by: MAGA at July 11, 2019 05:52 PM (2BrFd)

12 I am disappointed he's not forcing the census issue!
Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar at July 11, 2019 05:51 PM (AZxMX)

he said they couldn't do it in time, so they had to take this route

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 05:52 PM (vEIlU)

13 He's going around the douchebags. Ordering every fed agency to turn over all their data to commerce dept.

Not asking the question on the census

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 11, 2019 05:52 PM (cknjq)

14 On persons versus citizens, no one back then would believe that we'd let in 50 million illegals and their descendants

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 11, 2019 05:52 PM (vWkLQ)

15 Surely, this is not who we are?

Posted by: garrett at July 11, 2019 05:52 PM (yfm5M)

16

that was a middle finger to Roberts, the Democrats and the judges

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 05:53 PM (vEIlU)

17 Again, don't set your head on fire and run around.

Don't be gaslighted by conflicting media half-truths.

Let's see how this plays out.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at July 11, 2019 05:53 PM (ujg0T)

18 Well, the Left and NTs just got backdoored. And not in a good way.

Posted by: WitchDoktor, as if you give a damn at July 11, 2019 05:53 PM (qSCcj)

19 The important thing, is Juan sez this is "weaponizing bigotry!!!!"

Loved Barr referring to some of the media as "hysterical."

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 11, 2019 05:53 PM (ptqGC)

20 I see the swamp blocking the collection of this data. We'll see.

Posted by: WisRich at July 11, 2019 05:53 PM (G0vdT)

21 Trump should order an immediate survey of all Home Depot parking lots.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 11, 2019 05:53 PM (Mouru)

22 Juan is insane. I'm convinced.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 11, 2019 05:53 PM (ptqGC)

23 And the "woke" heroes in the Federal Agencies will probably refuse to turn the info over.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 11, 2019 05:54 PM (+0VWg)

24 The flaw with this:

Census decides apportionment for congress and electors. The Dems win by keeping the lie alive and places like Cali that are packed with illegals keep their electoral and congressional power.

Knowing how many illegals are in the USA is interesting but irrelevant to the effects that the census would give us.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 11, 2019 05:54 PM (39g3+)

25 4 Unconstitutional, you can only count 'persons'.
No where is it authorized to count 'citizens'.

Not illegal because non-citizens aren't told not to answer or destroy the census form. We want non-citizens counted too. It's just we want to know their status. Just like when it asks if you are male or female.

Posted by: JustALowlySoftwareEng at July 11, 2019 05:54 PM (CDCKr)

26 Hahaha.

The GSW strikes again

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 11, 2019 05:54 PM (cknjq)

27 I don't think the citizenship question should be in the Census.

I DO think the Census forms should be distributed by ICE.

Posted by: WitchDoktor, as if you give a damn at July 11, 2019 05:54 PM (qSCcj)

28 When he says "they"... who does he mean?
Specifically.

Posted by: mikeyG at July 11, 2019 05:54 PM (3z0gk)

29 And now Juan gets to make a jackass of himself again.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 11, 2019 05:49 PM (ptqGC)

not only is he saying it is intimidating and scare mongering

but also that it is "going around Congress" *choke choke* Are you kidding me? That was the definition of Obama and Holder.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 05:55 PM (vEIlU)

30 Blacks have been hurt the most by the Illegal Alien Invasion. When they find out the numbers they should be outraged.

Then time to join the Trump Republican Party

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 11, 2019 05:55 PM (vWkLQ)

31 Now.

TAX THE FUCKING REMITTANCES!

Posted by: garrett at July 11, 2019 05:55 PM (yfm5M)

32 Yeah, okay, go count all the 'persons'. Then, use all the other data to determine that, hey, it's looks like CA has 15% non-citizens and 85% citizens.Golly, looks like your apportionment is going down!

That is what the question on the census was going to lead to anyway.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at July 11, 2019 05:55 PM (ufFY8)

33 Eh. It's the best he could do. SCOTUS totally punted this one.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at July 11, 2019 05:55 PM (RD7QR)

34
What a cop out.

This has Barr's stink all over it. Barr has been jerking off the president since Day 1.

Posted by: Soothsayer, A Journailst and a Climate Expert at July 11, 2019 05:56 PM (k2e0x)

35 Yes, he's not the typical roll over politician that you expect of republicans.
Posted by: DR.WTF at July 11, 2019 05:53 PM (aS1PU)

half the GOP probably just pee'd their pants

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 05:56 PM (vEIlU)

36 If the country is still packed with illegals and Democrats in ten years, America has much bigger problems than the 2028 election.

Not worried, though damn the Roberts court for cucking on this. One more sign the legal system hates the American people.

Posted by: trev006 at July 11, 2019 05:56 PM (LR3Y8)

37 By the way, where's my buddy saying the 14th Amendment means "persons" not "citizens"?

Bill Barr called. He says "hey".

Posted by: Marcus T at July 11, 2019 05:56 PM (oh2fB)

38 >>Blacks have been hurt the most by the Illegal Alien Invasion

Blacks.

... and all those dead and freshly raped people, too.

Posted by: garrett at July 11, 2019 05:56 PM (yfm5M)

39 24 The flaw with this:

Census decides apportionment for congress and electors. The Dems win by keeping the lie alive and places like Cali that are packed with illegals keep their electoral and congressional power.

Knowing how many illegals are in the USA is interesting but irrelevant to the effects that the census would give us.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 11, 2019 05:54 PM (39g3+)

-----------

What happens to public sentiment on immigration and the border when it's announced that the illegal alien population is not 11 million but 50 million?

Posted by: Duke Lowell at July 11, 2019 05:56 PM (gC2IV)

40 Juan, Juan, Juan,

If you are committing crime everyday maybe you should be afraid to talk to a government agent.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 11, 2019 05:56 PM (1g7ch)

41 Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 11, 2019 05:54 PM (39g3+)

Good point.

I'd rather see some win-lose, skull-breaking conflicts with the Left than all these end-arounds. When do we go to the mattresses?

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at July 11, 2019 05:56 PM (H8QX8)

42
Oh well.

I don't really care about the data or its source - we know the answer is "way too fucking many."

What I wanted to see was direct defiance of the Supreme Court, and that's not happening, so I'm chalking this one up in the "L" column and moving on.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 11, 2019 05:57 PM (AzW6q)

43
President ordering Executive Departments to comply with Executive orders: the greatest constitutional crisis in history.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at July 11, 2019 05:57 PM (KC0Xb)

44 John Roberts is the biggest shit bag in the country today.

Second on the list is so far behind that they can't be seen.

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 11, 2019 05:57 PM (cknjq)

45
but also that it is "going around Congress" *choke choke*

Nobody can get around Jerry Nadler.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at July 11, 2019 05:57 PM (TAmPV)

46 What I wanted to see was direct defiance of the Supreme Court, and that's not happening, so I'm chalking this one up in the "L" column and moving on.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 11, 2019 05:57 PM (AzW6q)

My feeling too.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at July 11, 2019 05:58 PM (H8QX8)

47
John Roberts is the biggest shit bag in the country today.

Second on the list is so far behind that they can't be seen.
Posted by: weirdflunky at July 11, 2019 05:57 PM (cknjq)

--------

He's definitely high up on my list of people who need to face a troika.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 11, 2019 05:58 PM (AzW6q)

48 Above all, fuck John Roberts in the ass.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at July 11, 2019 05:58 PM (Iik29)

49 he said they couldn't do it in time, so they had to take this route

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 05:52 PM (vEIlU)

...

I hate this reasoning.

Miss the deadline. What's the consequence?

Posted by: Michelle Fields at July 11, 2019 05:58 PM (yL25O)

50 Why don't we just start claiming 75 Million Illegals.

That's the number. Not 11, not 30...75.

There are 75 Million Illegal Aliens living on the Public Dole in America.

Prove me wrong. I fucking dare you.

Posted by: garrett at July 11, 2019 05:58 PM (yfm5M)

51 Trump should tweet out a write-in campaign for the number of citizens in each household, just to f with the Dems and Roberts.

Posted by: Stu Podaso at July 11, 2019 05:59 PM (SyE7a)

52 Needed: A Ticking Debt Clock, but for number of illegal immigrants in country. Starts at 11 million.

Posted by: Frankovich's Monster at July 11, 2019 05:59 PM (hdzef)

53 half the GOP probably just pee'd their pants
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 05:56 PM (vEIlU)

Dammit.

Posted by: Thom Tillis at July 11, 2019 05:59 PM (OE84+)

54 I'm tired of waiting to be winning.

Posted by: Secular Blasphemy at July 11, 2019 06:00 PM (A+Gmv)

55 4 Unconstitutional, you can only count 'persons'.
No where is it authorized to count 'citizens'.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 11, 2019 05:50 PM (1g7ch)

Except the constitution excluded "non-taxed Indians" in the census count. If they meant to count 'persons', they would have been included.

Posted by: Tami at July 11, 2019 06:00 PM (cF8AT)

56 TAX THE FUCKING REMITTANCES!

Every. Fucking. Dollar.
So let it be written, so let it be done.

Posted by: mikeyG at July 11, 2019 06:00 PM (3z0gk)

57 When do we go to the mattresses?
Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at July 11, 2019 05:56 PM (H8QX

Anytime, sailor!

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at July 11, 2019 06:00 PM (Izzlo)

58 Lose sock, grow arm back.

Posted by: TexasDan at July 11, 2019 06:00 PM (yL25O)

59 The Deep State will just be filing lawsuits against this and Hawaiian Judges will be issuing injunctions to stop this.

Same as always.

Posted by: Czech Chick at July 11, 2019 06:00 PM (J9wxX)

60 "government" has worked hard to cover up data on illegals, as Coulter noted when researching her book, "Adios America". But with effort there should be multiple ways of getting those details, and new policy can require citizenship data on various forms and applications ... it just takes firing and/or torturing/hanging the bureaucrat resistance (the criminals operating the seditious coup from within).

Deliberately hiding fraud and politically inconvenient data is why so many billions go missing, probably on a daily basis. Everyone has their "inside man" in DC to pull strings and write bad law. Gotta start criminally charging them .... drain the swamp ... but so far they run a coup and ... nothing so far but promises of "get to the bottom of this". tick tock

Posted by: illiniwek at July 11, 2019 06:00 PM (Cus5s)

61 Trump could have really blew their minds and pointed out that the 14th explicitly requires an accurate count of citizens to comply with it.

And then refused to issue the census form 'as is' it is unconstitutional.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 11, 2019 06:00 PM (1g7ch)

62 And now Chris Wallace and his pursed lips.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 11, 2019 06:00 PM (ptqGC)

63 Needed: A Ticking Debt Clock, but for number of illegal immigrants in country. Starts at 11 million.
Posted by: Frankovich's Monster at July 11, 2019 05:59 PM (hdzef)

Multiply by $50+K...

Posted by: golfman at July 11, 2019 06:00 PM (OE84+)

64

As others have said, the census gets filled out fraudulently.

Records from the DMV, or the IRS, for example, have the states and addresses and phone numbers. The databases have more information then random census papers filled out by who? at the address? People do not take it seriously.

But they DO take it seriously when they need government services.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:01 PM (vEIlU)

65 The census is a remnant of Jim Crow and should be abolished.

Just ask Robert O'Dummy Dumbass.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 11, 2019 06:01 PM (MeM4j)

66 Oh FFS! Do your job for the American People! Stand up and fight with actions and not tweets. Do what you were elected to do.

Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:01 PM (13dPG)

67 Roberts is a respected legal mind in DC.

Posted by: RBG at July 11, 2019 06:01 PM (MAstk)

68 Betrayed again, far beyond the time for a serious battle with the SC and Dread Justice Robberts!

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar at July 11, 2019 06:02 PM (AZxMX)

69 after the statement, some of the "Real journalists" start jeering, I guess, people still there after the social media summit, and Gorka gets into the "real journalists'" faces.

Posted by: ace at July 11, 2019 06:02 PM (PbpT7)

70 I can't tell what exactly was said, though.

Posted by: ace at July 11, 2019 06:02 PM (PbpT7)

71 Not to rain on anyone's parade here but...

I am not crazy of the idea of getting all of the government's databases talking to each other.That path can easily lead to the Googlization of the federal gov. That is not a good thing.

Posted by: DR.WTF at July 11, 2019 06:02 PM (aS1PU)

72 Legal, historical question...

How are the States or Federal government to keep from one state inflating their numbers so they get more Congressional seats? How did the northern states keep the South from inflating the number of slaves in their states?

Posted by: JustALowlySoftwareEng at July 11, 2019 06:02 PM (CDCKr)

73 Trump could have really blew their minds and pointed out that the 14th explicitly requires an accurate count of citizens to comply with it.

And then refused to issue the census form 'as is' it is unconstitutional.
Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 11, 2019 06:00 PM (1g7ch)

yes, it's a waste of money

I don't care how many toilets they have.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:02 PM (vEIlU)

74 Blue state anti-leftists, you know what to do.

Posted by: kallisto at July 11, 2019 06:02 PM (YIHHg)

75 To fix that he can't crack 1% with black voters, Mayor Pete is legally changing his name to John Shaft.

"Yes, I'm a bad mother (shut your mouth).
And I brought the watermelon"

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 11, 2019 06:02 PM (vWkLQ)

76 John Roberts is the biggest shit bag in the country today.

Second on the list is so far behind that they can't be seen.
Posted by: weirdflunky at July 11, 2019 05:57 PM (cknjq)

One wonders if there's a trip to Pedo Island or some other indiscretion lurking in his past.

Posted by: filbert at July 11, 2019 06:03 PM (Lz9fr)

77 I just renewed my California drivers license online, it was amazingly easy. You can't complete it until you register to vote though. I'm no Party guy.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at July 11, 2019 06:03 PM (Ni0F+)

78 59 The Deep State will just be filing lawsuits against this and Hawaiian Judges will be issuing injunctions to stop this.

Same as always.

Posted by: Czech Chick at July 11, 2019 06:00 PM (J9wxX)

He could ignore it because he is freaking POTUS.

Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:03 PM (13dPG)

79

IT heaven or hell, depending on how you look at it.

Legacy systems....

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:03 PM (vEIlU)

80 And when the Democrat federal workers refuse to turn over data, or hide some or all of it, or some other subterfuge, what will happen to them?

Ahh, nothing. Can't fire them.

That's the problem.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at July 11, 2019 06:03 PM (sy5kK)

81 Heh - LGBT-1000.

My pronouns are Liquid Metal Polymemetic Alloy.

Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at July 11, 2019 06:03 PM (oZ6kz)

82 Except the constitution excluded "non-taxed Indians" in the census count. If they meant to count 'persons', they would have been included.
Posted by: Tami at July 11, 2019 06:00 PM (cF8AT)

-------

I think the idea of illegal non-citizens being counted is insane, and I believe so would the founders, and the gentlemen who wrote the sloppy-ass 14th amendment.

But as with any other question, none of that matters. The Court will always rule that "whatever the Left wants on major issues" is the law.

That's why I'm so hot for Trump to disregard the Court on this, or on anything, really.

Once a President defies the Court on something, it puts the fear of G-d into them and they STFD and STFU for a good long while. Roosevelt knew it. Jackson knew it. And Trump needs to do it, or consign himself to five more useless years.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 11, 2019 06:03 PM (AzW6q)

83
I am not crazy of the idea of getting all of the government's databases talking to each other.That path can easily lead to the Googlization of the federal gov. That is not a good thing.

Posted by: DR.WTF at July 11, 2019 06:02 PM (aS1PU)

Google is one election away from Googlizing the federal government right now.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at July 11, 2019 06:04 PM (TAmPV)

84 4 Unconstitutional, you can only count 'persons'.
No where is it authorized to count 'citizens'.
Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 11, 2019 05:50 PM (1g7ch)

14th Amendment, Section 2?

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at July 11, 2019 06:04 PM (sy5kK)

85 Sounds like a plan to me

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 11, 2019 06:04 PM (85Gof)

86 IT heaven or hell, depending on how you look at it.

Legacy systems....
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:03 PM (vEIlU)

Probably equivalent to the moon shot in complexity.

Posted by: DR.WTF at July 11, 2019 06:04 PM (aS1PU)

87 One wonders if there's a trip to Pedo Island or some other indiscretion lurking in his past.
Posted by: filbert at July 11, 2019 06:03 PM (Lz9fr)

if Epstein's images showed Roberts, then what?

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:04 PM (vEIlU)

88 This may prove to be a very good work around.

Work around what?

Work around CA, Miami, Broward Co, NYC cheating on those home bound forms.

Posted by: Ray Soranda Soranda at July 11, 2019 06:04 PM (tyEy7)

89 Invoke the last part of the 14th Amendment Section 2.

Reduce the apportionment by the number of males not able to vote in the several states. It has never been changed or repealed.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum) at July 11, 2019 06:04 PM (w5jr9)

90 Juan is insane. I'm convinced.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 11, 2019 05:53 PM

Jane, and I mean this sincerely, I appreciate your Juan reportage (and the effort it takes to do it), so that I don't have to watch him blather.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at July 11, 2019 06:05 PM (VHuq4)

91 and the Dream Wall won't be built either.
The one big thing that got Trump elected.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 11, 2019 06:05 PM (r+sAi)

92 This is more reach than work around.

Posted by: garrett at July 11, 2019 06:05 PM (yfm5M)

93 In theory, census data is supposed to be anonymous.Other govt agencies aren't supposed to know what your forms actually say.

The best part of this EO is the data will be specific about individuals. Names, addresses ssn. Virtually everything.

Pretty sure the opponents of the census question didn't want this data centralized. Oops

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 11, 2019 06:05 PM (cknjq)

94 44 John Roberts is the biggest shit bag in the country today.

he joined the Benedict Arnold list long ago.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at July 11, 2019 06:05 PM (sy5kK)

95 Better than totally giving in to the No Borders crowd

Posted by: Skip at July 11, 2019 06:05 PM (BbGew)

96 I am not crazy of the idea of getting all of the government's databases talking to each other.That path can easily lead to the Googlization of the federal gov. That is not a good thing.
Posted by: DR.WTF at July 11, 2019 06:02 PM (aS1PU)

#twoweeks

Posted by: golfman at July 11, 2019 06:05 PM (OE84+)

97 Unconstitutional, you can only count 'persons'.
No where is it authorized to count 'citizens'.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 11, 2019 05:50 PM (1g7ch)

Except the constitution excluded "non-taxed Indians" in the census count. If they meant to count 'persons', they would have been included.
Posted by: Tami at July 11, 2019 06:00 PM (cF8AT)

I should have included the /sarc tag...

Excluding non-taxed Indians might have clicked with most residents at that time as indians had representation in their tribal governments (hence not taxed). Also, there were open borders (immigration wise),
so pretty much everybody who settled here was legit, except those who had a government to represent them (pretty much anybody "passing through" legally).

But that is probably reading too much into what was once common knowledge.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (1g7ch)

98 84 4 Unconstitutional, you can only count 'persons'.
No where is it authorized to count 'citizens'.
Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 11, 2019 05:50 PM (1g7ch)

Aw, go split a hair.

Posted by: Ray Soranda Soranda at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (tyEy7)

99 not lol and still getting f*cked

... and f*ck that traitor Benedict Roberts in particular ... and the Bush hhe rode in on.

Posted by: ShainS -- There are but two Parties now: Traitors and Patriots at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (4t9HO)

100

They said they knew he would be sued as soon as he put pen to paper for this EO.

That is why he wanted to get the data immediately.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (vEIlU)

101 The best part of this EO is the data will be specific about individuals. Names, addresses ssn. Virtually everything.

Yeah, real great.

Posted by: DR.WTF at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (aS1PU)

102 46
What I wanted to see was direct defiance of the Supreme Court, and
that's not happening, so I'm chalking this one up in the "L" column and
moving on.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 11, 2019 05:57 PM (AzW6q)

My feeling too.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at July 11, 2019 05:58 PM (H8QX

---
Trump is waiting for the right moment. This isn't it.

In fact, his plan is quite devious.

What he's going to do is cross-index the Census with other databases (like Social Security) so he can get an idea of exactly how far apart the records diverge.

That will get him what he wants without having Hawaiian judges throwing endless injunctions at him. They'll try it here, but no one's going to be harmed, so no one's going to have standing to sue.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (cfSRQ)

103 if Epstein's images showed Roberts, then what?
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:04 PM (vEIlU)

-------

Then Roberts goes to prison, and much as I might find it distasteful, Epstein should probably get a statue somewhere.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (AzW6q)

104 What this basically does is keep the blue states with huge electoral votes and congressional seats for the next election.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (r+sAi)

105 something tells me they on the left won't savor this victory once the alternative is initiated

Posted by: DanMan at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (XTiHL)

106 Invoke the last part of the 14th Amendment Section 2.

Reduce the apportionment by the number of males not able to vote in the several states. It has never been changed or repealed.
Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum) at July 11, 2019 06:04 PM (w5jr9)

First, declare the sanctuary states to be in a state of insurrection.

*poof* go a shitload of Cali's Congressional seats.

Posted by: filbert at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (Lz9fr)

107 Once a President defies the Court on something, it puts the fear of G-d into them and they STFD and STFU for a good long while. Roosevelt knew it. Jackson knew it. And Trump needs to do it, or consign himself to five more useless years.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 11, 2019 06:03 PM (AzW6q)

But how is he defying the SC? The SC ruling was only that they needed to go back for 'better justification' to include it on the census. Trump just said ok well...can't do that in time to get the census out so we'll get the information THAT WE ALREADY HAVE across multiple gov't agencies, funneled to the Commerce dept.

Posted by: Tami at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (cF8AT)

108 i don't understand why illegals would fill out the census anyway. Goodness of their hearts?

Posted by: NCKate at July 11, 2019 06:07 PM (lknvV)

109 All of us down at the Brattleboro (aka Obammaboro, Vt) Women's, Gay, Lesbian, and Trans-Gender Reproductive Health Clinic hopes that all Gays, Lesbians, and children of coler are counted !! We does not trust Trump !!!!

Posted by: Buster Hymandd at July 11, 2019 06:07 PM (qM84C)

110 Meh? I'm not so sure.

Do you really think the citizenship/illegal invader question would have been 45% answered? I Don't. This is real data.... if it comes to pass.

I do wish that Trump does this AND puts the question on the census.

Oh fuck John Roberts with a hot sauce covered barb wired wrapped pineapple, SIDEWAYS. Thanks Bush the Lesser.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at July 11, 2019 06:07 PM (pw+jk)

111 Winning, the question on the census would never get an accurate response anyhow. The point being he wants the illegal population to know he's on to them. Getting agency's to provide data does the same thing. We can use the data we already have to get a better picture. Coordinate SS and IRS data and we get a good view of the fraud that is inherent in illegals working with the use of illegal identification. This would let the feds go after employers as well. Why isn't this a thing? coordinating among departments should be mandatory.

Posted by: USNtakim profoundly deplorable. at July 11, 2019 06:07 PM (0OmEj)

112 To fix that he can't crack 1% with black voters, Mayor Pete is legally changing his name to John Shaft.
=====

I love the shaft!

Posted by: Mayor Buttplug at July 11, 2019 06:07 PM (JcXHH)

113 and the Dream Wall won't be built either.
The one big thing that got Trump elected.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 11, 2019 06:05 PM (r+sAi)

And still pisses me off. Bad. Really bad.

But until one of those Dem freaks mentions it, I'm still MAGA.

Posted by: golfman at July 11, 2019 06:08 PM (OE84+)

114 >> i don't understand why illegals would fill out the census anyway.

They would only do it for more free government funds. And they would lie to maximize their take.

Posted by: garrett at July 11, 2019 06:08 PM (yfm5M)

115 101 The best part of this EO is the data will be specific about individuals. Names, addresses ssn. Virtually everything.

Yeah, real great.
Posted by: DR.WTF at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (aS1PU),

Yoo hoo.

Posted by: ACLU at July 11, 2019 06:08 PM (MAstk)

116 Candy wait for the baseball season to resume

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 11, 2019 06:08 PM (85Gof)

117 Actually, Trump & Barr laid it out pretty well.
Realistically, time and the courts were not on their side.
This was really their only option.

Posted by: redridinghood at July 11, 2019 06:08 PM (RBOtF)

118 The best part of this EO is the data will be specific about individuals. Names, addresses ssn. Virtually everything.

Pretty sure the opponents of the census question didn't want this data centralized. Oops
Posted by: weirdflunky at July 11, 2019 06:05 PM (cknjq)

exactly

and the left and Commerce say that "all of the illegals pay taxes!" etc etc

whelp, we'll see won't we?

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:08 PM (vEIlU)

119 And when the Democrat federal workers refuse to turn over data, or hide some or all of it, or some other subterfuge, what will happen to them?

Ahh, nothing. Can't fire them.

That's the problem.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg

I thought you could for insubordination?

Posted by: rickb223 at July 11, 2019 06:08 PM (HDCbD)

120 I should have included the /sarc tag...

Excluding non-taxed Indians might have clicked with most residents
at that time as indians had representation in their tribal governments
(hence not taxed). Also, there were open borders (immigration wise),

so pretty much everybody who settled here was legit, except those
who had a government to represent them (pretty much anybody "passing
through" legally).

But that is probably reading too much into what was once common knowledge.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (1g7ch)

---There was no birthright citizenship until the 14th Amendment.

States had their own citizenship laws and the franchise was limited, so the national census didn't drill that far down.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (cfSRQ)

121 >>Candy wait for the baseball season to resume

I think this is gonna be the year the Mets make the playoffs.

Posted by: garrett at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (yfm5M)

122 What happens to public sentiment on immigration and the border when it's announced that the illegal alien population is not 11 million but 50 million?

Nothing changes. People already oppose open borders and want more immigration control.

This will be interesting information but irrelevant to our purposes. Trump caved. Again.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (39g3+)

123 17 Again, don't set your head on fire and run around.

Don't be gaslighted by conflicting media half-truths.

Let's see how this plays out.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at July 11, 2019 05:53 PM (ujg0T)

It's been 3 years. 3 years. He has dramatically increased legal immigration, allowed illegal immigration to get much much worse, no wall, no rounding them up, no punishing Mexico, no withholding money sent to Mexico, zero enforcement of the law of those helping and enabling illegal immigration, zero wall, zero military presence on the border, and I could go on.

At what point do you say, he has failed and hold him accountable for the sake of the American People?

Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (13dPG)

124 the messaging on this is perfect

it's going to UTTERLY FREAK the people who I want freaked

illegal alien free-shit sponges

Posted by: BlackOrchid at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (Rarvo)

125 Did anyone else get the 2019 pre census survey to fill out? I farted in its general direction.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (Ni0F+)

126 87 One wonders if there's a trip to Pedo Island or some other indiscretion lurking in his past.
Posted by: filbert at July 11, 2019 06:03 PM (Lz9fr)

if Epstein's images showed Roberts, then what?
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:04 PM (vEIlU)

It would explain a whole lot.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at July 11, 2019 06:10 PM (ujg0T)

127 I think this is gonna be the year the Mets make the playoffs.
Posted by: garrett at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (yfm5M)

Make The Playoffs Great Again?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 11, 2019 06:10 PM (85Gof)

128 i don't understand why illegals would fill out the census anyway. Goodness of their hearts?
Posted by: NCKate at July 11, 2019 06:07 PM (lknvV)

They want to make known they're moving up in the World.

"I now have 2 banios."

Posted by: golfman at July 11, 2019 06:10 PM (OE84+)

129 Steiner ... Steiner will come.

Posted by: J. Random Moron at July 11, 2019 06:10 PM (VHuq4)

130 and the left and Commerce say that "all of the illegals pay taxes!" etc etc

whelp, we'll see won't we?

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:08 PM (vEIlU)

I'm sure a ton of illegals DO pay taxes. My question though, is: on what SSN do they pay taxes?

Whose identity did they steal on order to be able to pay taxes?

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, LOL, get fucked at July 11, 2019 06:10 PM (RIoPT)

131 Actually, Trump & Barr laid it out pretty well.
Realistically, time and the courts were not on their side.
This was really their only option.
Posted by: redridinghood at July 11, 2019 06:08 PM (RBOtF)

the left, the judges and the dipshit megacorps would never let them get it on the form

so the form would have gone out without it and that is it

this is great, but it will be tough

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:10 PM (vEIlU)

132 Did anyone else get the 2019 pre census survey to fill out? I farted in its general direction.
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (Ni0F+)

No

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 11, 2019 06:10 PM (85Gof)

133 20 I see the swamp blocking the collection of this data. We'll see.

Posted by: WisRich at July 11, 2019 05:53 PM (G0vdT)

______

Yep. Just like they and the blue states refused to cooperate with the Vote Fraud commission and investigation.

Posted by: ShainS -- There are but two Parties now: Traitors and Patriots at July 11, 2019 06:10 PM (4t9HO)

134
What I wanted to see was direct defiance of the Supreme Court, and that's not happening, so I'm chalking this one up in the "L" column and moving on.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 11, 2019 05:57 PM (AzW6q)

Thereare plenty of opportunities in the pipeline to defy the court on that are more significant than the citizenship question.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at July 11, 2019 06:11 PM (TAmPV)

135 and the Dream Wall won't be built either.
The one big thing that got Trump elected.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 11, 2019 06:05 PM (r+sAi)

At least 200 miles will be built. 105 of those miles in the Rio Grande Valley (which gets ~38% of all illegal traffic).

Posted by: Serious Cat at July 11, 2019 06:11 PM (Xqo6t)

136 This is important for all the WALL nay sayers and yea sayers.

It's by the company that's building the wall in El Paso and it's impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaihuiT24Vg

Posted by: Ray Soranda Soranda at July 11, 2019 06:11 PM (tyEy7)

137 Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (13dPG)

See 113

Posted by: golfman at July 11, 2019 06:11 PM (OE84+)

138 It's been 3 years. 3 years. He has dramatically increased legal immigration, allowed illegal immigration to get much much worse, no wall, no rounding them up, no punishing Mexico, no withholding money sent to Mexico, zero enforcement of the law of those helping and enabling illegal immigration, zero wall, zero military presence on the border, and I could go on.

At what point do you say, he has failed and hold him accountable for the sake of the American People?
Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (13dPG)

One wishes you had so much desire to hold the RINOs in Congress or everyone else in the Deep State accountable.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at July 11, 2019 06:11 PM (ujg0T)

139 But how is he defying the SC? The SC ruling was only that they needed to go back for 'better justification' to include it on the census. Trump just said ok well...can't do that in time to get the census out so we'll get the information THAT WE ALREADY HAVE across multiple gov't agencies, funneled to the Commerce dept.
Posted by: Tami at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (cF8AT)

--------

He isn't. The correct thing, IMO, would be to say "Roberts' decision was unconstitutional, the executive is a co-equal branch of government, we aren't constrained by illegal orders, and we are proceeding as previously planned without regard to the will of the Court."

It's been done before. It can be done again. The American people would accept this, the Congress would not have the balls to do anything about it, and the Court would back off of Trump from now on, as they always do when challenged by an executive.

And, I'll add that there has never been a time in American history when the action would be more appropriate than now. The Courts have stepped so far beyond their bounds that they absolutely must be defied.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 11, 2019 06:11 PM (AzW6q)

140 At what point do you say, he has failed and hold him accountable for the sake of the American People?

with all due respect, you're full of it.

I hear nothing but WHINING by the a-holes around me about how "we can't find people to pick our MUSHROOMS because ORANGEMANBAD!"

and the schools are a lot - A LOT - less crowded all of a sudden

sometimes things happen that shockingly our vaunted press somehow misses, what with their intense focus on sowing FUD among the citizenry

just ..chill

Posted by: BlackOrchid at July 11, 2019 06:11 PM (Rarvo)

141 This is the hill upon which we die. These agencies will do all sorts of meaningless things, and the Judiciary will continue to say "Fuck you, American. We run this." There is no more Law, no more Constitution. Only Force, and the Will to Power.

Posted by: ErikInTexas at July 11, 2019 06:11 PM (QMphW)

142 At what point do you say, he has failed and hold him accountable for the sake of the American People?

Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (13dPG)

Begone, cuck. I know blackpillers pop in to lie whenever the slightest bad news happens, but lie to someone else.

Posted by: trev006 at July 11, 2019 06:12 PM (LR3Y8)

143 >>and the left and Commerce say that "all of the illegals pay taxes!"

This is a lie.

They don't pay anything but sales taxes...

and they are far and away a net loss on the economy.

Posted by: garrett at July 11, 2019 06:12 PM (yfm5M)

144 Posted by: BlackOrchid at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (Rarvo)

THAT is exactly the point I was trying to make.

Illegals and their helpers will be freaking out.

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 11, 2019 06:12 PM (cknjq)

145 Illegals are good Leftists, voting and falsifying the census are just a part of scamming benefits.

Posted by: Skip at July 11, 2019 06:12 PM (BbGew)

146

I'm sure a ton of illegals DO pay taxes. My question though, is: on what SSN do they pay taxes?

Whose identity did they steal on order to be able to pay taxes?
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, LOL, get fucked at July 11, 2019 06:10 PM (RIoPT)

this might be a side benefit of the exercise

I see the left calling this an invasion of privacy

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:12 PM (vEIlU)

147 Realistically, time and the courts were not on their side.
This was really their only option.
Posted by: redridinghood at July 11, 2019 06:08 PM (RBOtF)

Tee hee

Posted by: ROBERTS at July 11, 2019 06:12 PM (MAstk)

148 Good times, good times.
Posted by: mikeyG at July 11, 2019 06:08 PM (1EUzr)
=====

And the blissful days of the Obamacare rat-on-your-neighbor website.

Posted by: Bicentennialguy at July 11, 2019 06:12 PM (JcXHH)

149 Are Lice considered dependents?

Posted by: garrett at July 11, 2019 06:12 PM (yfm5M)

150 John Roberts gave us ObamaCare and he gave us non-citizen voting.

I'm having a hard time here thinking he's anything but a Democrat activist.

Posted by: Entire male horde now fully alert at July 11, 2019 06:13 PM (cyuo5)

151 Thereare plenty of opportunities in the pipeline to defy the court on that are more significant than the citizenship question.
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at July 11, 2019 06:11 PM (TAmPV)

------

Sure. I don't care what the proximate cause is - it doesn't even matter. The action alone would silence these tyrants. Any issue - you pick it - and they get out of the way from now on.

I just want to see it happen, and soon.

I could not care less about the citizenship quoestion, on its own.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 11, 2019 06:13 PM (AzW6q)

152 It's been 3 years. 3 years. He has dramatically
increased legal immigration, allowed illegal immigration to get much
much worse, no wall, no rounding them up, no punishing Mexico, no
withholding money sent to Mexico, zero enforcement of the law of those
helping and enabling illegal immigration, zero wall, zero military
presence on the border, and I could go on.

At what point do you say, he has failed and hold him accountable for the sake of the American People?

Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (13dPG)

---
I KNOW!

THREE YEARS!? IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIXED IN ONE!

Posted by: HAIR ON FIRE CONSERVATIVE at July 11, 2019 06:13 PM (cfSRQ)

153 frickin sock removal tool broke again

Posted by: Huck Follywood, hatin' on SCOTUS at July 11, 2019 06:13 PM (cyuo5)

154
It's been 3 years. 3 years. He has dramatically increased legal immigration, allowed illegal immigration to get much much worse, no wall, no rounding them up, no punishing Mexico, no withholding money sent to Mexico, zero enforcement of the law of those helping and enabling illegal immigration, zero wall, zero military presence on the border, and I could go on.
At what point do you say, he has failed and hold him accountable for the sake of the American People?

Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (13dPG)

They're starting the roundup this Sunday.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at July 11, 2019 06:13 PM (TAmPV)

155 Come on, Chris. What would you have him do? Issue an EO to put the question on the census and it get slapped with an immediate injunction. Would you have him say fuck it do it anyway? Then what?

Posted by: Duke Lowell at July 11, 2019 06:13 PM (gC2IV)

156 OT

More links at Insty about the Epstein-Wexner ties. This is getting rather interesting. I had no idea that Wexner basically gave Epstein his mansion in NYC.

Posted by: Tuna at July 11, 2019 06:13 PM (jm1YL)

157 Its a canard that the 14th requires birthright citizenship for children of illegals.

Congress can pass a law, and SCOTUS can uphold without upending any existing precedent

I'd want RBG replaced, because of Roberts

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 11, 2019 06:14 PM (vWkLQ)

158 At what point do you say, he has failed and hold him accountable for the sake of the American People?

Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (13dPG)

If the past 2 1/2 years have been Trump failing, I'll take it all damn day.

You would have gotten better results with Hillary?

Piss off.

Posted by: Tami at July 11, 2019 06:14 PM (cF8AT)

159 It's been 3 years. 3 years. He has dramatically increased legal immigration, allowed illegal immigration to get much much worse, no wall, no rounding them up, no punishing Mexico, no withholding money sent to Mexico, zero enforcement of the law of those helping and enabling illegal immigration, zero wall, zero military presence on the border, and I could go on.

At what point do you say, he has failed and hold him accountable for the sake of the American People?
Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (13dPG)

So you're a Democrat, bragging again?

Trump can only do so much.

When your supposed ally is Paul Ryan, who just came out today and said he hated working with Trump, PDT isn't the problem.

So no, everything you said was incorrectly attributed to Trump. All of it is on the anti-American Democrats.
And the #Nevers.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at July 11, 2019 06:14 PM (sy5kK)

160 For all the people who say that Trump is disappointing on this issue, I feel your frustration. However, the way to make a difference is not by booing the President - who is working his ass off - but to get in the streets, march on DC, make noise...like the left does. But who's going to organize this? Me? No. I work 60 hours a week and pass out every night by 9 pm. And there's the problem right there. I support him, cheer him, root, root, root for him. All from home and in my own close circle.

Posted by: Russkilitlover at July 11, 2019 06:15 PM (99Nt9)

161 Where is Pedo Island? Not that I plan to go.

Posted by: Northern Lurker, irritable, so very irritable. Have I mentioned I'm irritable? at July 11, 2019 06:15 PM (JgA4k)

162 I know that Trump has to fight both parties, plus activist judges, disloyal staff and insubordinate bureaucrats, but one term of office should be plenty of time to fix all of that.

The guy's hardly working. We should elect someone else to punish him.

Posted by: HAIR ON FIRE CONSERVATIVE at July 11, 2019 06:15 PM (cfSRQ)

163 144 At what point do you say, he has failed and hold him accountable for the sake of the American People?

Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (13dPG)

Begone, cuck. I know blackpillers pop in to lie whenever the slightest bad news happens, but lie to someone else.
Posted by: trev006 at July 11, 2019 06:12 PM (LR3Y

On immigration he damn sure has. Where am I wrong. The only one cucking is you. Laying out facts about the last 3 years isn't blackpilling. It's holding a person accountable.
There are many things he could have done, promised to do, and failed to have the will to do them and keep his promises.

Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:15 PM (13dPG)

164 Roberts is to the scotus what McCain was to the Senate.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at July 11, 2019 06:16 PM (CwKWC)

165 At what point do you say, he has failed and hold him accountable for the sake of the American People?

hey troll you may want to recalibrate your awareness detector, Trump and few of his loyals are the only thing we have right now. How about for the sake of the American People you go fuck yourself

Posted by: DanMan at July 11, 2019 06:16 PM (XTiHL)

166 CUCK!!

Posted by: Zoomie at July 11, 2019 06:16 PM (TzWib)

167 157 Its a canard that the 14th requires birthright citizenship for children of illegals.

Isn't a canard square rigged?

Posted by: Ray Soranda Soranda at July 11, 2019 06:16 PM (tyEy7)

168 and the left and Commerce say that "all of the illegals pay taxes!"

This is a lie.

They don't pay anything but sales taxes...

and they are far and away a net loss on the economy.
Posted by: garrett at July 11, 2019 06:12 PM (yfm5M)

Not quite true.

They pay tax on gasoline. They pay property tax via their rent on the single wide they rent. They pay beaucoup tax on alcohol.

Yet, check the drain. Schools, healthcare, LE...

Net loss.

Posted by: golfman at July 11, 2019 06:17 PM (OE84+)

169
I remember how George Bush fought like a cornered animal to stem the flow of illegal immigration.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at July 11, 2019 06:17 PM (TAmPV)

170 Wall is being built
Mexico has been forced to fight to control immigration on its side
millions being deported

Its a lie to say NOTHING is being done here, just not as much or as fast as we wish. Again, congress is 99% to blame here, Trump could do more but they are the ones who are deliberately blocking him and refusing to do their job. Even when GOP was in charge of congress.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 11, 2019 06:17 PM (39g3+)

171

Tax the Indians!

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at July 11, 2019 06:17 PM (aKsyK)

172 161 Where is Pedo Island? Not that I plan to go.

Posted by: Northern Lurker, irritable, so very irritable. Have I mentioned I'm irritable? at July 11, 2019 06:15 PM (JgA4k)

Jeffery burned it down to the ground.
That's what I heard.

Posted by: Ray Soranda Soranda at July 11, 2019 06:17 PM (tyEy7)

173 So when I renewed my California drivers license, I had to confirm that I was a citizen.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at July 11, 2019 06:17 PM (Ni0F+)

174 148

I'm sure a ton of illegals DO pay taxes. My question though, is: on what SSN do they pay taxes?

Whose identity did they steal on order to be able to pay taxes?
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, LOL, get fucked at July 11, 2019 06:10 PM (RIoPT)

this might be a side benefit of the exercise

I see the left calling this an invasion of privacy
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:12 PM (vEIlU)

The IRS knows this to the dollar, I would suspect.

But having them comply with Trump's Executive Order?

Now that's funny.

Not joke funny, but ironic funny.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at July 11, 2019 06:18 PM (sy5kK)

175 There are many things he could have done, promised to do, and failed to have the will to do them and keep his promises.

Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:15 PM (13dPG)

---
Name them.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 11, 2019 06:18 PM (cfSRQ)

176 I looked at 3 census forms 1920- to 1970 all have birth nation and naturalized etc

Posted by: willow at July 11, 2019 06:18 PM (r/xAU)

177 >>They pay tax on gasoline.

This is a sales tax.

They do NOT pay property taxes. They pay rent.

Renters don't pay property taxes. Those who claim they do are lying.

Posted by: garrett at July 11, 2019 06:18 PM (yfm5M)

178 158 At what point do you say, he has failed and hold him accountable for the sake of the American People?

Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:09 PM (13dPG)

If the past 2 1/2 years have been Trump failing, I'll take it all damn day.

You would have gotten better results with Hillary?

Piss off.
Posted by: Tami at July 11, 2019 06:14 PM (cF8AT)

On immigration. Stop twisting my words and spinning a false narrative about POTUS winning on immigration. Hold him accountable.

Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:18 PM (13dPG)

179

I just filled out a census in my house.

It said if there was a Resident Only (me) in the house, versus Citizen (hubby), then the resident must fill it out.

Canada.

I'm a citizen of the US, so I had to fill it out.

Canada is targeting non-citizens in their census.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:18 PM (vEIlU)

180 This is a lie.

They don't pay anything but sales taxes...

and they are far and away a net loss on the economy.
Posted by: garrett at July 11, 2019 06:12 PM (yfm5M)

All taxes paid are incidental to illegally entering the country in the first place. Fruits of a poisonous tree so to say.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 11, 2019 06:18 PM (1g7ch)

181 A 2,000 person round up is like one whole family. I guess it's a start. But an insignificant one at that.

Posted by: NCKate at July 11, 2019 06:18 PM (lknvV)

182 Where is Pedo Island? Not that I plan to go.

I have no idea, that is a good question. I would guess the Caribbean somewhere?

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 11, 2019 06:18 PM (39g3+)

183 ''I remember how George Bush fought like a cornered animal to stem the flow of illegal immigration''

LOL. Was he pissed when his immigration bill was defeated.

Posted by: Tuna at July 11, 2019 06:18 PM (jm1YL)

184 Will all the deep state department heads lash out to keep from doing this, thereby creating political fodder for Trump?

Posted by: RM at July 11, 2019 06:19 PM (U3LtS)

185 They should use Epstein's jets to fly all the Pedro's and their kids to Epstein's island for holding. It's only fair. I bet there are some nice cages on that island. probably looks like Abu Graib.

Posted by: Bob Kraft at July 11, 2019 06:19 PM (Jj+59)

186 Those bogus SS numbers are going to show up in hurry.

The 325, guys with the same name and the same home address are going to be heading south in a heartbeat.

There is more success than failure here.

Posted by: Ben Had at July 11, 2019 06:19 PM (n/cPs)

187 It's a massive data analytics project, and the data tech is there. It's Trump's bureaucratic database grab... and it'll be hard for them to hide. I like it. Not sexy in a headline, but it should frighten the right (wrong) people.

Posted by: Al Crapton at July 11, 2019 06:19 PM (bMk7P)

188 Not tired of winning yet. Still waiting to see some to see if I like it. Not likely to see any though, just more shitpoasting to twitter.

Posted by: John Morris at July 11, 2019 06:19 PM (sCRhB)

189 Sure we'll cooperate fully

Posted by: The Swamp at July 11, 2019 06:19 PM (6/uwW)

190 I know a lot of prevailing sentiment is "why would an illegal fill out a census form in the first place, " but when they can fill it out fraudulently without fear of recourse, with no chance of being caught at it and no potential punishment even if they were, it suddenly makes sense for the Left to get as many of them to do it as possible. They'll be handing out census forms halfway to Cape Horn.

Posted by: Pennsyltucky at July 11, 2019 06:19 PM (tV4uu)

191 On immigration he damn sure has. Where am I wrong. The only one cucking is you. Laying out facts about the last 3 years isn't blackpilling. It's holding a person accountable.
There are many things he could have done, promised to do, and failed to have the will to do them and keep his promises.
Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:15 PM (13dPG)

Once again, it is amazing how you won't hold anyone in Congress accountable.

Where do laws begin as bills?

Does the phrase "Power Of The Purse" ring a bell?

Does Trump in your mind have magical powers to override the well entrenched bureaucracy and a House of Represenatives Congress currently headed by Peelousy and the Demunists?

No, he doesn't.

That is where you are sadly wrong, giving you benefit of the doubt, and where your trolling fails, which is what I increasingly suspect.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at July 11, 2019 06:20 PM (ujg0T)

192 Sure we'll cooperate fully
Posted by: The Swamp

"Yeah we'll get that data to you the 12th of never."
--Deep State Resistance

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 11, 2019 06:20 PM (39g3+)

193 170 Wall is being built
Mexico has been forced to fight to control immigration on its side
millions being deported

Its a lie to say NOTHING is being done here, just not as much or as fast as we wish. Again, congress is 99% to blame here, Trump could do more but they are the ones who are deliberately blocking him and refusing to do their job. Even when GOP was in charge of congress.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 11, 2019 06:17 PM (39g3+)

If you didn't see this bookmark it. It's from the company building the WALL in El Paso.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaihuiT24Vg

Posted by: Ray Soranda Soranda at July 11, 2019 06:20 PM (tyEy7)

194 32 Yeah, okay, go count all the 'persons'. Then, use all the other data to determine that, hey, it's looks like CA has 15% non-citizens and 85% citizens.Golly, looks like your apportionment is going down!

That is what the question on the census was going to lead to anyway.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at July 11, 2019 05:55 PM (ufFY

For what feels like the Ten Thousandth time, NO!

Asking the question has NO EFFECT on reapportionment, one way or the other! The Constitution in Very Plain Language says that all PERSONS, not all citizens, are counted for reaportionment. It has been done that way after EVERY census for 230 years, including those times when the the question was asked.

The Question is Informational. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH REAPPORTIONMENT.

Posted by: Tom Servo at July 11, 2019 06:20 PM (k1TUh)

195 103 if Epstein's images showed Roberts, then what?
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:04 PM (vEIlU)

-------

Then Roberts goes to prison, and much as I might find it distasteful, Epstein should probably get a statue somewhere.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (AzW6q)

Unless Roberts takes a stroll in Ft Marcy Park first.

We can always hope.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at July 11, 2019 06:20 PM (sy5kK)

196 Why don't they just count 'Persons' and 'Personas'?

Posted by: garrett at July 11, 2019 06:21 PM (yfm5M)

197 On immigration. Stop twisting my words and spinning a false narrative about POTUS winning on immigration. Hold him accountable.

Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:18 PM (13dPG)

Counter to what you hear in the MSM, he isn't a friggin' dictator. He has tried 7 ways from Sunday to do as much or more than all previous presidents combined on immigration. He has the courts, the media, the dems and fuckall members of his own party stop him at every turn.

Tell us, oh genius...what would you have done that he hasn't already tried to do?

Posted by: Tami at July 11, 2019 06:21 PM (cF8AT)

198 Where is Pedo Island? Not that I plan to go.

Posted by: Northern Lurker, irritable, so very irritable. Have I mentioned I'm irritable? at July 11, 2019 06:15 PM (JgA4k)

picture here

location here too

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:21 PM (vEIlU)

199
"Yeah we'll get that data to you the 12th of never."

--Deep State Resistance

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 11, 2019 06:20 PM (39g3+)

---
I've decided to relocate your office to Fairbanks, Alaska.

Posted by: President Trump at July 11, 2019 06:21 PM (cfSRQ)

200
There are many things he could have done, promised to do, and failed to have the will to do them and keep his promises.
Posted by: counter intel triple agent at July 11, 2019 06:15 PM (13dPG)

You sound like a jilted teenage girl.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at July 11, 2019 06:22 PM (TAmPV)

201 NOOD.

Posted by: TexasDan at July 11, 2019 06:22 PM (yL25O)

202 Honestly, I don't know enough about this to say this was a good move, the least bad move under the circumstances, or a cave. I only know I'm frustrated. The Left always comes at us head-on, spitting libel and spilling blood, and yet we're always crafting some oblique, super-clever counter move.

I want what Breitbart wanted -- "War!"

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at July 11, 2019 06:22 PM (H8QX8)

203 Asking the question has NO EFFECT on reapportionment, one way or the other! The Constitution in Very Plain Language says that all PERSONS, not all citizens, are counted for reaportionment. It has been done that way after EVERY census for 230 years, including those times when the the question was asked.

That's the lawyer argument, yes. But the courts can decide on that. Since "persons" specifically has several exemptions listed in the constitution, among which is "people who don't pay taxes and are not part of our nation" its not a difficult argument to make.

In other words, not a place to be dogmatic or insistent about.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 11, 2019 06:22 PM (39g3+)

204 Asking the question has NO EFFECT on reapportionment, one way or the other! The Constitution in Very Plain Language says that all PERSONS, not all citizens, are counted for reaportionment. It has been done that way after EVERY census for 230 years, including those times when the the question was asked.

The Question is Informational. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH REAPPORTIONMENT.
Posted by: Tom Servo at July 11, 2019 06:20 PM (k1TUh)

With another actual justice that believes in the US Constitution replacing RBG, the 1982 ruling could be overturned.

It has happened before.

Posted by: zombie Dred Scott at July 11, 2019 06:22 PM (sy5kK)

205 They do NOT pay property taxes. They pay rent.

Renters don't pay property taxes. Those who claim they do are lying.
Posted by: garrett at July 11, 2019 06:18 PM (yfm5M)

Dude.

Expenses are passed on to the consumer.

We're on the same side.

Posted by: golfman at July 11, 2019 06:22 PM (OE84+)

206 That is where you are sadly wrong, giving you benefit of the doubt, and where your trolling fails, which is what I increasingly suspect.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at July 11, 2019 06:20 PM (ujg

Agreed Curmudgeon. 'Counter Triple" whatever reads like a Never Trumper Concern Troll come to see if he can stir something up. They infest lots of spots on the net, probably getting paid by Stink Progress to do it.

Posted by: Tom Servo at July 11, 2019 06:22 PM (k1TUh)

207 Look I'm not going to be doom and gloom but the potential troll has a semblance of a point. Trump has been amazing on a lot of things I didn't expect him to be that great on. But his #1 thing was immigration and I'm not feeling all that much winning in that area. If progress has been made, it's been slow progress.

Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at July 11, 2019 06:23 PM (oZ6kz)

208 For all you super cons that are saying "He should do it! Ignore the courts! Blah blah blah!"

You say he should draw the line and tell the courts to fk off.

You realize that if he orders something like that and the feds refuse to defy the courts then he has killed his own presidency? If he cuts his own balls off he may as well resign now.

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 11, 2019 06:23 PM (cknjq)

209 Some of you didn't actually hear the presser-did you. Nor did you read the Commerce decision.

Posted by: Marcus T at July 11, 2019 06:23 PM (oh2fB)

210 Actually, I think that a lot of federal employees would go out of their way to sabotage any amount of SS verification. It seems like an insurmountable problem against overwhelming forces, but you have to remember: if their jobs required unique talent, you'd have to fire 80% of the civil service. What these jobs require is trust, the trust of the American people for their bureaucrats. When that level tunnels to the Earth's core, fire them.

Most of the government hates Trump and opposes him, but most of them are also completely obsolete. Fire them all, pull their pensions. But they aren't this incredible resource without which America would collapse. Exactly the opposite.

Posted by: trev006 at July 11, 2019 06:23 PM (LR3Y8)

211 >>>Now that's funny.

Not joke funny, but ironic funny.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at July 11, 2019 06:18 PM (sy5kK)

It's a sticky wicket. If they don't comply districts and states that are do to receive more representatives will not.

In fact not sending in an accounting could result in the loss of seats.

Posted by: Ray Soranda Soranda at July 11, 2019 06:23 PM (tyEy7)

212

This might just get us closer to how many illegals really are in the country.

I bet 50M+.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:23 PM (vEIlU)

213 AND the 14th Amendment should be relitiigated.

Posted by: golfman at July 11, 2019 06:23 PM (OE84+)

214 All the little bureaucratic data fiefdoms will need to produce transaction logs... be interesting to see which systems "crash" and experience unexplained downtime.

Posted by: Al Crapton at July 11, 2019 06:24 PM (bMk7P)

215 I wish Barr had been our AG from the beginning.

Posted by: redridinghood at July 11, 2019 06:24 PM (RBOtF)

216 Barr very specifically mentioned apportionment.

Posted by: Marcus T at July 11, 2019 06:24 PM (oh2fB)

217 One of those infuriating common sense issues. Why the heck would anyone object to the country knowing whether someone who lives here is a US citizen or not? Unless you have something to hide and aren't playing by the rules?

At some point I don't give a crap about this or that technicality. Just answer the f'in question ffs.

Posted by: RM at July 11, 2019 06:25 PM (U3LtS)

218 all Persons...

Including invading armies.

So says the 21st century robotic reader.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 11, 2019 06:25 PM (1g7ch)

219 For all you super cons that are saying "He should do it! Ignore the courts! Blah blah blah!"

You say he should draw the line and tell the courts to fk off.

You realize that if he orders something like that and the feds refuse to defy the courts then he has killed his own presidency? If he cuts his own balls off he may as well resign now.

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 11, 2019 06:23 PM (cknjq)

exactly
it's weird

they are looking for ANY action to impeach him

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:25 PM (vEIlU)

220 ''The guy's hardly working. We should elect someone else to punish him.''

The man has an amazing work ethic. Never seen any president work so hard to help this country. He's not in this for his own benefit but for ours. How many of us would like to contend with what he does on a daily basis.

Posted by: Tuna at July 11, 2019 06:25 PM (jm1YL)

221 I'm with artisanal ette. 50 million. Minus 2,000 on Sunday.

Posted by: NCKate at July 11, 2019 06:25 PM (lknvV)

222 In other words, not a place to be dogmatic or insistent about.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 11, 2019 06:22 PM (39g3+)

When there is an absolute, unquestioned Supreme Court ruling which is completely on point, and when there is not ONE SINGLE CASE anywhere in the country that has even been FILED which would challenge it, much less change the Precedent, then YES. That is when it is OK to be Dogmatic and Insistent. That is as clear a Legal Mandate as is ever seen in this country.

If we want to change it, we are going to have to Amend the Constitution. Till then, it is what it is and it's a sad fantasy to think any different.

Posted by: Tom Servo at July 11, 2019 06:26 PM (k1TUh)

223 The Left always comes at us head-on, spitting libel and spilling blood, and yet we're always crafting some oblique, super-clever counter move.�

I want what Breitbart wanted -- "War!"

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at July 11, 2019 06:22 PM (H8QX

They often crack their own heads open. In particular Mueller actively fucked himself. I think Iran Contra got more scalps, and it damn sure didn't affect Reagan's legacy.

The elites are pretty shit. What they have is authority, but when the day comes and it's no longer unquestioned, they'll die like rats.

Posted by: trev006 at July 11, 2019 06:26 PM (LR3Y8)

224 Evan McMullin's twitter feed is that way ------->

Posted by: andycanuck at July 11, 2019 06:26 PM (Dh1wo)

225 100

They said they knew he would be sued as soon as he put pen to paper for this EO.

That is why he wanted to get the data immediately.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:06 PM (vEIlU)

______

Couldn't PDT have just revoked the DogEater's Executive Order tha5 removed the census' citizenship question -- what am I missing here?

Posted by: ShainS -- There are but two Parties now: Traitors and Patriots at July 11, 2019 06:27 PM (1p8LS)

226 Very meh.
******
Good Lord, The spics can lie on the census ! now he can get real data from all the Alphabet agency's
*******
Man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Deep State is in DEEP SHIT at July 11, 2019 06:28 PM (BqBId)

227 literally serious widespread pepe counter intel triple agent

Posted by: trapper's girl at July 11, 2019 06:29 PM (WA8sK)

228 I suppose what annoys me most about the reapportionment issue is that there's a Real Argument here, about why the dems don't want the count, about why Trump and his administration do. That REAL argument is what is driving all the actions in this case; if you understand it you understand why all the players on both sides are doing what they're doing, and why Trump and Barr are trying to address it this way today.

But when people get off on thinking that this has something to do with Reapportionment, then they might as well be wondering whether Romulans can still mate with Vulcans; they're in their own fantasy world which explains nothing and does no good to anyone. Now the Left increasingly lives all of their lives in these sad little fantasy bubbles, and that's why they can and should be ignored. But we shouldn't be emulating them.

Posted by: Tom Servo at July 11, 2019 06:32 PM (k1TUh)

229 If they start the round up this weekend. Maybe by 2020 there won't be enough illegal immigrants here to count.

Oh Lord hear my prayer. Keep them all safe in their home countries and far from danger on the border.

Amen

Posted by: Lily, formerly of Hot Air now of AoSHQ, Assassin in the Night, not an NPC at July 11, 2019 06:34 PM (rw1l7)

230 Posted by: weirdflunky at July 11, 2019 06:23 PM (cknjq)

exactly
it's weird

they are looking for ANY action to impeach him
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 11, 2019 06:25 PM (vEIlU)

I agree - every time someone says "he should just ignore the courts!" I think "Well only if he's got at least 1 full division of Combat Troops posted in every major city, which are ready to assume all day to day control of every major function." Because overriding the judicial system is what Martial Law is all about - and if you're going to impose Martial Law, you had better have the military muscle in place to back it up.

Posted by: Tom Servo at July 11, 2019 06:36 PM (k1TUh)

231
It was never about the question, which didn't even mention legal status, but about shooing illegals away from taking the survey.

The left did have a point about this question surpassing "immigrant communities" participation.

But I don't care. If the left is going to pass laws that are designed to make their states and districts a magnet for illegals, then suppressing their representation was A-OK with me.

I still think it might be possible to get the same result with a whisper campaign that makes them believe the Feds are using A.I. to determine who is illegal based on overall "answer signature" from a survey.

Posted by: Serious Cat at July 11, 2019 06:38 PM (Xqo6t)

232 I had thought the citizenship question related to being a representative republic, and our betters were supposed to be representing citizens.

Posted by: willow at July 11, 2019 06:41 PM (r/xAU)

233 Nood! Book report

Posted by: Lily, formerly of Hot Air now of AoSHQ, Assassin in the Night, not an NPC at July 11, 2019 06:46 PM (rw1l7)

234 Consider what all the illegals are thinking right now. "My God. There going to know everything about me." Panic time. Trump knows this.

Posted by: Sukie Tawdry at July 11, 2019 06:46 PM (smK7b)

235 50 Why don't we just start claiming 75 Million Illegals.
That's the number. Not 11, not 30...75.
There are 75 Million Illegal Aliens living on the Public Dole in America.
And 50 million of them are in California, 20 million are New York and the remaining 5 million are evenly aportioned throughout the rest of the blue-dog Democrats shathole states.
Prove me wrong. I fucking dare you.
Posted by: garrett

FIFY

Posted by: BifBewalski -sofa king we Todd did at July 11, 2019 06:53 PM (VcFUs)

236 The Constitutional basis for conducting the decennial census is to reapportion the U.S. House of Representatives. Apportionment is the process of dividing the 435 memberships, or seats, in the U.S. House of Representatives among the 50 states.

Posted by: willow at July 11, 2019 06:59 PM (r/xAU)

237 Congressional Apportionment

Posted by: willow at July 11, 2019 07:00 PM (r/xAU)

238 Nobody knows how anything works.

Let's see a show of hands: who thinks all the redistricting stuff would be settled by the 2020 election after that awesome census computation is done?

The redistricting stuff affected by the census wouldn't take effect until 2022 at earliest.

Brian Cates @drawandstrike
If you're thinking they'll RUSH OUT stuff once the 2020 census is all turned in and then CHANGE THE DISTRICT LINES before that 2020 election, you're confused.

NOTHING happens that fast.

Posted by: Deep State is in DEEP SHIT at July 11, 2019 07:14 PM (BqBId)

239 In re the sidebar: I only go to Hot Air for nostalgia. I remember way back when it actually WAS conservative and had thousands of comments.

And then along came Salem.

Posted by: jakee308 - Hylozoist at July 11, 2019 07:20 PM (lwNxB)

240 I'm going to opt in and write "I am a US citizen" on my form. Wonder what would happen if lots of people did that?

Posted by: vivi at July 11, 2019 07:21 PM (11H2y)

241 It may not be as "meh" as you think. IF all of the federal agencies turn over relevant records that would be pretty big. During Obama's time, agencies were specifically told NOT to share information on citizenship and illegal aliens. IRS, for example was instructed not to coordinate with Social Security about any misuse of SSNs. Those two agencies alone have a ton of information on aliens, especially IRS, which issues taxpayer ID numbers to aliens. Agriculture (food stamps), Labor, Education, and HHS also have citizenship information. If all of it were to be brought together it would a) paint a good picture of the size of the alien population and b) put a lot of those people in uncomfortable positions.
Therefore, the (dis)loyal opposition can be expected to fight it tooth and nail.

Posted by: Mongoose at July 11, 2019 07:23 PM (NecL3)

242 margue dos

The most divisive words ever.

Put the Census in English. Old English. Like about Shakespearean times.

That'll weed out a whole bunch of culls from the enumeration sweepstakes.

Posted by: jakee308 - Hylozoist at July 11, 2019 07:25 PM (lwNxB)

243 As Chief Executive of the United States, he should have ordered the question be put on the forms and told the courts to do something about it. There was no law broken here. And SCOTUS took the cowards way out by returning it to the lower court knowing it would never get resolved in time.

I'm tired of courts running the federal government.

Posted by: WarEagle82 at July 11, 2019 07:54 PM (+Kpte)

244 counter intel guy is full of shit.

Posted by: Ronster at July 11, 2019 07:59 PM (/zc+p)

245 I don't see how this matters, if it's not official census data, then it won't affect representation and funding. This looks like a total defeat to me. Very disappointing!

Posted by: Mark Levesque at July 11, 2019 08:33 PM (7XjsU)

246 The good guys are running the agencies than the states that depend on federal largesse, especially blue States, can be ordered to provide their information bike DMV registrations for non-citizens or risk losing their funding. This is actually a very big win which you will see by the left's reaction to it.

Posted by: Oddnot at July 11, 2019 08:43 PM (IrkrT)

247 This was the issue to take a stand against the courts on. There will not be a better one.

There is not a single immigration policy that wasn't crafted from the bench. The other two branches are just along for the ride and have no say in anything at all. They need to reassert their authority.

Posted by: Thatch at July 11, 2019 09:24 PM (v5Cc/)

248 50 million and getting tax payers money.

Posted by: nip at July 11, 2019 09:47 PM (RXwUQ)

249 Over 50 million illegals getting welfare, votes, and costing the taxpayers untold opportunities. Factor in crime, drugs, and denying Americans their rights and we see the benefits of diversity and a border less state.

America will not exist as it did, and the swamp killed it.

Posted by: I am not corey Booker at July 12, 2019 03:20 PM (nRj4F)

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Trump and Barr Statement on Census Citizenship Question; No Question on Census, But Departments are Ordered to Turn Over all Relevant Records on Citizens and Illegals to Attempt to Resolve the Question

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Trump and Barr Statement on Census Citizenship Question;
No Question on Census, But Departments are Ordered to Turn Over all Relevant Records on Citizens and Illegals to Attempt to Resolve the Question