Gun Thread: Reloading 101 Pt. 4: Components [Weasel]

DuPont Blackpowder - this is not smokeless powder!!

Has it been another week already? Today is part 4 in our reloading series, and let's get right to it, shall we?

As a reminder, please do not list specific load powder charge weights when discussing reloading, and please remember this material is intended for the novice reloader, and for now let's keep the information basic for now. Thanks.

***Components***

So now let's have a look at the components you will need to produce your own reloads. There are many online retailers to choose from, and reloading suppliers are generally well represented at gun shows. I usually shop online because the selection is better and because I hate crowds, so I'll link a few of my favorite suppliers here.

Midsouth Shooters Supply
Powder Valley
Sinclair International
Graf & Sons
Berry's Mfg.

There are many, many more and I'm probably leaving off some of the good ones. Do you have a favorite not listed here? Please list the name only rather than a long link!

Also keep in mind when sourcing components that a hazmat fee of $27 will apply to shipments of powder and primers, in addition to the normal shipping charges, but the two items can be combined in a single order to save some money. Another idea to consider is going in together with a couple reloading buddies when possible to spread the charges out a little.

Review Material: The basic unit of measure in reloading is the grain (gr), and one grain is equal to 1/7,000th of a pound. Most decent reloading scales will measure accurately to the 1/10th of a grain.

There are four parts to a cartridge; the case, the bullet, the powder and the primer. Let's review each of these.

Cartridge Cases
Metallic cartridge cases can be made from several different types of material. Most commonly brass, but sometimes you will see them made from steel, aluminum and other materials such as nickel. Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc, and is ideal for use in cases because it is soft and easily shaped under pressure, both during the loading process and during firing. As noted before, the cartridge brass is shaped by the sizing die, and when fired, expands to seal the breech of the chamber. Without getting too far into the metallurgical weeds, brass gets harder when worked repeatedly and will eventually split or crack unless stress is relieved at the molecular level through the process of annealing. We won't worry about annealing handgun cases since the brass is inexpensive enough to replace as it wears out. Just remember it is important to inspect your brass for cracks and splits as you go along.

Reloaders are notorious scavengers, and will frequently be seen scrounging brass at the range whenever possible. New brass can be purchased from any reloading supplier, and every reloader has their favorite whether based on price or other qualitative factors. For precision match loads, it is important to use the best and most consistent brass possible. When I'm reloading handgun cartridges for plinking, I'll use whatever I have handy. If I want a little more accurate handloads I will make sure the brass is all from the same manufacturer and has the same headstamp. The headstamp is simply a name or other manufacturer's mark stamped into the case head along with the caliber identification. I like Starline brass for handguns because it's of reasonably decent quality, it's inexpensive, and is usually readily available. For my rifle match loads I use Lapua brass exclusively.

Federal .38 Special Case and Plated Semi-wadcutter

Bullets
There are a zillion different types and styles of bullets. Maybe more than a zillion. Important considerations for the new reloader, after choosing the right caliber, are the materials used and the design application.

Typical materials are plain lead, lead which is fully or partially jacketed by copper, and plated bullets. Lead bullets are very economical and can even be made at home as part of the reloading process, or simply sourced from a retailer. Lead bullets usually require the application of a special anti-fouling bullet lube during the seating process and can still sometimes cause a lead buildup inside the barrel. Jacketed bullets offer the convienience of not requiring lubrication, but are more expensive due to a more complex manufacturing process. Plated bullets offer the advantages of jacketed bullets at a significantly reduced cost, but cannot be used at higher muzzle velocities. Common shapes for general purpose shooting are the wadcutter, semi-wadcutter and round nose. Wadcutter bullets are flat and seated flush with the case mouth and are designed for making clean holes in paper targets. Round nose bullets should be familiar to everyone, and semi-wadcutters are a cross between the two. Berry's Manufacturing is a producer of jacketed bullets that I use a lot. A good choice for the beginning reloader would be a jacketed or plated semi-wadcutter.

Powder
There are hundreds of formulations of gunpowder, a fact which kind of surprised me when I started reloading. Until then it wasn't something I'd thought a great deal about, but come on - hundreds? There are countless combinations of size, shape and chemical composition, each designed to produce a specific result. The type we are interested in for metallic cartridge reloading is smokeless powder.

Standard .38 Special Powder Charge

The common types (shapes) of smokeless powder are flake, ball and extruded. You will note the example shown above is a flake powder. The different shapes result in variable surface area affecting the burn rate and brisance, or the speed at which the burning powder achieves peak pressure. Smokeless powder is not an explosive, but instead is technically classified as a flammible solid which burns very quickly. It is the resulting gas expansion which sends a bullet down the barrel. Magnum powders burn slowly while other calibers burn more quickly, relatively speaking. The amount of powder shown above is my standard .38 Special load. It doesn't take much!

One major caution about powder. The names can be deceptively similar and inadvertently confusing them at the reloading bench can have catastrophic results. Consult your reloading manual for the appropriate powders for your caliber and bullet weight combination, and be very careful to match the name exactly. Some powders will work well in a a variety of calibers; Bullseye and W231 come to mind as examples, but always confirm using data from one or more published sources.

Gunpowder: How it Works

Primers
Primers contain a tiny amount of explosive between the cup and a small metal anvil inside. The hammer strike sets off the primer sending flame through the flash hole and igniting the powder. Primers will not explode from normal handling, but there are glorious stories of reloaders having a stack of primers explode in a chain reaction on a progressive press . You do not want this to happen to you. Store them safely in the original packaging, don't be a retard when working with them, and you'll be fine.

The size choices are easy - they come in large and small with variations in composition for rifle, regular handgun and magnum applications. Your reloading manual will tell you which size you need for the cartridge you're working with. The more expensive "match" primers are exactly the same as standard primers, they're simply made by the most experienced production line workers.

Small Pistol Primers

Next Week: We start putting it all together!

***

Here are articles and tips from the NRA's online magazine Shooting Illustrated:

There are a lot of nutty ideas in any endeavor, and carrying a concealed weapon is no exception. Here are a few concealed carry myths debunked. Number 3 will amaze you!

If you're going to carry a concealed weapon, you're going to need a holster. Here are a few things to think about in choosing one. Number 2 will amaze you!

We've talked about it before, but any day you don't have to shoot someone is a good day, and avoiding a confrontation altogether is generally considered a better outcome than a gunfight whenever possible. Here are some things to think about. Does carrying a weapon make you more likely to avoid situations which might potentially escalate? Do you have any personal examples to share?

And speaking of the NRA, it sounds like they had some excitement among the senior management this week.

Breitbart: Power Struggle at the NRA

What do you think of the NRA? Are you a member? How about alternatives such as the Gun Owners of America? Although the size of the NRA is great in some respects, I begin to worry when any group gets too big and a lot of dinero is involved.

*******
Link-O-Rama
Online Component Finder
Bullet Types Explained
Introduction to Bullet Sizes and Calibers and Types
Buyer's Guide: Rifle Bullets
Bullet Type Review

***Mail Bag***
A very innovative approach to the concept of a shooter and spotter working as a team, don't you think?

h/t hcurmudgeon

*************

Please note the new and improved gmail account morongunthread at gmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

Posted by: Open Blogger at 07:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Hello

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at April 28, 2019 07:01 PM (fcGKa)

2 Gubs!

Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 28, 2019 07:02 PM (fuK7c)

3 Gubs! I like gubs.

Posted by: Eromero at April 28, 2019 07:02 PM (qBNEP)

4
I'll fetch the others

Posted by: a at April 28, 2019 07:02 PM (KCxzN)

5 Happiness is

Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2019 07:03 PM (BbGew)

6 Wassup? Howdy all!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:03 PM (MVjcR)

7 I adore that last pic.

A .50 would totes be mounted ASAP, if need be.

Posted by: SMH at April 28, 2019 07:03 PM (RU4sa)

8 I have an appointment.

Week from Monday.

To go shooting with one of our church elders.

Wish me luck.

Posted by: Emmie at April 28, 2019 07:04 PM (4HMW8)

9 That is, to get to a tank when things go a tad pear-shaped.

Posted by: SMH at April 28, 2019 07:05 PM (RU4sa)

10 As a bullet caster ( .75 cal for my Brown Bess) do any of you reloaders cast your own?
I find it's very easy to do and have fun doing it, besides the fact lead is free if you are lucky enough.

Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2019 07:06 PM (BbGew)

11 Wish me luck.

Posted by: Emmie at April 28, 2019 07:04 PM (4HMW

------
Hi Emmie! Good luck! Will you come back and tell us how it went?

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:06 PM (MVjcR)

12 Breitbart: Power Struggle at the NRA

This headline worries me. Strife is a beacon for scumbags. "Oh, the NRA has money, you say?"

Posted by: t-bird at April 28, 2019 07:07 PM (jyVW0)

13 Hi Emmie! Good luck! Will you come back and tell us how it went?
Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:06 PM (MVjcR)

Well, I am hoping to come back.

I will definitely want to share how it went. This will be my first range outing. I have never shot a gun before.

Posted by: Emmie at April 28, 2019 07:08 PM (4HMW8)

14 12 Breitbart: Power Struggle at the NRA

This headline worries me. Strife is a beacon for scumbags. "Oh, the NRA has money, you say?"

Posted by: t-bird at April 28, 2019 07:07 PM (jyVW0)
-----
Yep to both, though their finances aren't in the greatest shape, or so I've read.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:09 PM (MVjcR)

15 12 Breitbart: Power Struggle at the NRA

This headline worries me. Strife is a beacon for scumbags. "Oh, the NRA has money, you say?"
Posted by: t-bird at April 28, 2019 07:07 PM (jyVW0)

The NRA lost their way a long time ago.

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at April 28, 2019 07:09 PM (2DOZq)

16 Posted by: SMH at April 28, 2019 07:03 PM (RU4sa)
-----
Hi SMH!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:10 PM (MVjcR)

17 'Sup Weasel!

Posted by: SMH at April 28, 2019 07:10 PM (RU4sa)

18 13 Hi Emmie! Good luck! Will you come back and tell us how it went?
Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:06 PM (MVjcR)

Well, I am hoping to come back.

I will definitely want to share how it went. This will be my first range outing. I have never shot a gun before.

Posted by: Emmie at April 28, 2019 07:08 PM (4HMW

--------
Outstanding! You'll do fine!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:10 PM (MVjcR)

19 Yay gun thread. Have I been to the range? I was on the range everyday the past week including right now. It pays the bills. Sorta.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 07:11 PM (bgJ0E)

20 Well, if the NRA needs to go through one of those reset periods that organizations go through from time to time, now isn't a bad time to do so.

Posted by: Grey Fox at April 28, 2019 07:11 PM (bZ7mE)

21 17 'Sup Weasel!

Posted by: SMH at April 28, 2019 07:10 PM (RU4sa)
------
Not much. Wish I were at the farm this week. The weather is perfect!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:12 PM (MVjcR)

22 The problem I have observed with all gun organisations is that without exception the minute there is some advantage or gain to be made from being at the top end of the said organisation is that the rot sets in. People are going to be people.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 07:14 PM (bgJ0E)

23 9 Yay gun thread. Have I been to the range? I was on the range everyday the past week including right now. It pays the bills. Sorta.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 07:11 PM (bgJ0E)
------
Howdy NZFrank! You'll have to elaborate on that someday if you don't mind sharing a little.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:14 PM (MVjcR)

24 As to ways to carrry, when I wear a jacket it's a G19 in a black leather Tagua OWB. No jacket,it's a Ruger .357 LCR in a black leather Bianchi OWB with soft shirt over. Either way, you would never know I carry this time of year. And yeah, I have a largish suitcase full of carry options.

Posted by: Eromero at April 28, 2019 07:15 PM (qBNEP)

25 Sure Mr Weasel. Some persec aside, wadda you wanta know?

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 07:15 PM (bgJ0E)

26 I have used the FF as cannon powder. Powerful stuff. Many people do not know that by 1850 or so, the black powder technology had reached its zenith. Never to really rise much more. With precise manufacturing and precise shape of the corns, it was equal to about 1/2 strength of smokeless powder, but has a drastically slower burn rate thus far less PSI.
By 1890, black powder guns were truly deadly as evidenced by the .45 Colt (1873) or the .45-70 (1873). Neither the most deadly of its day, but both still well up on the guns and ammo sell list.

Posted by: pat at April 28, 2019 07:15 PM (5zZ1Q)

27 Nice info Weasel! I shot a bunch of old Pakistani .303 this week and about 3 in 10 were hangfires.

Looks to have been made in 1961 so it is to be expected.

Plenty accurate when they did go boom though.

I shoot surplus ammo often, so I always keep hangfires and the like in mind.

As far as the NRA goes, they blow.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at April 28, 2019 07:16 PM (Z+IKu)

28 No shooting this weekend, weather has been chilly and rainy and crappy here.

Prepped some 30 Spec and 9mm cases, and loaded a couple hundred of the 9mm.

Re: component suppliers, I like Missouri Bullet Company for cast bullets.

Posted by: Iowa Bob at April 28, 2019 07:16 PM (bjCNA)

29 The problem I have observed with all gun organisations is that without exception the minute there is some advantage or gain to be made from being at the top end of the said organisation is that the rot sets in. People are going to be people.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 07:14 PM (bgJ0E)
------
Agreed. I've sort of suspected this kind of thing has been going on for some time.

And Grey Fox - that's an excellent point.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:17 PM (MVjcR)

30 Horde. I purchased a handgun this week. Mr NEC was out of town at a golf outing. Knew what I wanted, purchased it, disassembled and cleaned it. Reassembled it and shot it.
Bought a Kimber Micro 9.
Taking a gun safety course this week that includes range time.
Only shot 2 rounds in our back 40. Didn't want to shoot more then that since I was on my own.
I am proud of myself for doing as much as I did. You tube helped a lot on the disassemble, cleaning and reassemble.

Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at April 28, 2019 07:17 PM (N3JsI)

31 I carry almost everywhere. I've had this conversation with myself, and i think I'm far less likely to escalate a situation BECAUSE I'm armed. Knowing a situation could go to guns encourages me to avoid or deescalate precisely because I DON'T want to shoot anyone here in America.

My only personal story is this: I was out with the then wife and my 8 month-old son at Sherwin Williams getting paint for our new house. It was January, snowing, and dark.

They were in the car, and i was walking to them from the store. A strange man came into my vector about 40m out, and i could see he intended to close.

I moved over two parking aisles to get him clear of my family and he approached. I kept backing away and he kept closing. Finally i stopped, and he asked for money to put gas in his car. I refused and walked out to a random car under a light, "fumbling for my keys" until he disappeared.

I really thought i was going to have to shoot him, and was gaming it all out.

Talk about an adrenaline dump...

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Ridiculous Bullshit at April 28, 2019 07:18 PM (T8HPM)

32 I've appendix carried a G19 for 25 years now with a simple inside the pants Uncle Mikes size 16 .

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at April 28, 2019 07:18 PM (2DOZq)

33 Something is going on at the NRA.

Too bad the press is so slanted and propagandist. The price of all the false and fake news is they simply aren't credible any more.

We may never know the real story.

*sigh*

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at April 28, 2019 07:18 PM (sy5kK)

34 Lots to read. I'll be back

McGyver, out

Posted by: McGyver at April 28, 2019 07:18 PM (gMngZ)

35 I think the problem is LaPeirre in spite of the board support he has. I'm thinking they're his lackeys.

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at April 28, 2019 07:20 PM (2DOZq)

36 Sure Mr Weasel. Some persec aside, wadda you wanta know?

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 07:15 PM (bgJ0E)
-------
Just your perspective from the management side. Biggest hassles, that sort of thing. Nothing too deep!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:21 PM (MVjcR)

37 20 Well, if the NRA needs to go through one of those reset periods that organizations go through from time to time, now isn't a bad time to do so.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 28, 2019 07:11 PM (bZ7mE)

I had this same conversation with a friend of mine today.

It is unfortunate but the the corruption and self dealing of the upper echelons of the NRA has been a tinderbox capable of destroying the organization for a long time.

I would rather see it happen now in a somewhat controlled fashion, while we do not face credible threats from the dems than having it all come out when we have two houses of dems and dem or squish president.

Posted by: iron308 at April 28, 2019 07:21 PM (eCwiU)

38 Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at April 28, 2019 07:17 PM (N3JsI)
-----
Nice! Congrats!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:22 PM (MVjcR)

39 For components, add MidwayUSA and Cabelas to the list. I'm lucky the pro shop where we shoot has a good supply of powders at reasonable prices. And it lets me avoid the hazmat fee.

My internet connection is F'ing screwed up today. I'll stay on as long as I can.

Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 07:22 PM (Hrh4r)

40 You know the msm will blame Ollie North. They hate him. They hate LaPierre as well but North will get the major hate.
What am I saying they hate, hate, hate the NRA. It will be a nightmare no matter what's going on.

Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at April 28, 2019 07:22 PM (N3JsI)

41
Democrats = Gestapo

If you don't show up for their Spectacles designed to impugn, incriminate, and embarrass you, Democrats will scream What Do You Have To Hide? You're Hiding Something!!

Posted by: Soothsayer'c at April 28, 2019 07:23 PM (oVvUa)

42
Democrats want to dunk William Barr into a tank of water so he can prove he can't float, because if he can float, he's guilty and he's made of wood, like a witch.

Posted by: Soothsayer'c at April 28, 2019 07:24 PM (oVvUa)

43 I carry almost everywhere. I've had this conversation with myself, and i think I'm far less likely to escalate a situation BECAUSE I'm armed.

I have some experience gaming out situations from when I was ripped and doing Tae Kwon Do, but I'm not so much either anymore. I am, however, recently permitted to carry.

So what goes into the decision of what to carry? At the simplest level long barrels shoot straighter small is easier to conceal and less of a nuisance to work into your wardrobe.

Do you imagine all incidents within 15 feet? 30?

How do people balance the things?

Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 28, 2019 07:25 PM (fuK7c)

44 Carried a Govt. Model 1911 for a few years in a Mitch Rosen ARG with matching MR belt. Nice rig, but a beast in the desert. Now I carry a G43 in a kydex holster on the same MR belt. Prefer the size of the G43 and retention of the kydex. A proper belt is key.

Posted by: Love Gun at April 28, 2019 07:27 PM (JC/0A)

45 Soothsayer's cat @ 41- You know how this will end. It will end in blood. There is no way to avoid blood. The left wants blood and they will by shaitan have blood, even if it's their own blood. Of course they would prefer it be our blood or that of some cheap throwaway foreigner contract democrat voters. Either way, there's going to be blood. Lots of blood.

Posted by: Eromero at April 28, 2019 07:29 PM (qBNEP)

46 Agreed. I've sort of suspected this kind of thing has been going on for some time.
Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:17 PM (MVjcR)

The only way to get around this (the rot and corruption and general ass-buggery)is to adopt the method myself and my late gunsmith and shooting mate have done with a service rifle group. Remove the hierarchy, NO president, secretary, treasurer, committee, etc. Have no monies involved, no cash to hand, membership on an e-mail list. List is self vetting. Promulgate shootings dates to the e-mail list with a match format. No set dates just turn up and shoot if you can make it. Fees for range and targets, etc are gathered on the day and any excess returned to all those shooting as cash prizes, food and beverages.
A convener is required admittedly, but as long as they are solid, no problems. Some natural bias will creep in as to detail on match shoots and type, but if people do not like how its works they will not return. Seems to work good for us so far.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 07:29 PM (bgJ0E)

47 Bander: for me it was literally body size. I'm 5'9, 160, so a full size pistol was out. I tried the MP.40, which i loved, and moved to the MP shield 9mm. I don't game things out, as much as i just notice. I see things and people that are out of place, et al.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Ridiculous Bullshit at April 28, 2019 07:29 PM (T8HPM)

48 "30 Horde. I purchased a handgun this week. Mr NEC was out of town at a golf outing. Knew what I wanted, purchased it, disassembled and cleaned it. Reassembled it and shot it.
Bought a Kimber Micro 9.
Taking a gun safety course this week that includes range time.
Only shot 2 rounds in our back 40. Didn't want to shoot more then that since I was on my own.
I am proud of myself for doing as much as I did. You tube helped a lot on the disassemble, cleaning and reassemble.

Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at April 28, 2019 07:17 PM (N3JsI) "

*tips hat with profound respect*

Good for you.
Taking the first step is the hardest, but now you're on the way.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez asks,who is painting these concentric circles on my back all the time ? at April 28, 2019 07:29 PM (wA4OO)

49
Do you imagine all incidents within 15 feet? 30?

How do people balance the things?
Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 28, 2019 07:25 PM (fuK7c)
------
I'm completely guessing, but I'd say 20 feet max.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:30 PM (MVjcR)

50 Brass has another advantage for cartridge cases. It expands slightly under the pressure of propellant combustion to make a seal the case against the wall of the chamber, preventing propellant gas from escaping backward. Then when the pressure drops, it contracts back to its original size and can be extracted easily.

Steel and aluminum cased ammo does not do this -- they are harder and less giving, and so are made to be a slightly tighter fit and are usually coated with lacquer. The chamber will get dirtier when using such ammo because propellent gas leaks back between the chamber and the case, but not strongly enough to spray the shooter in the face.

Sealing a gun breech or other joint under pressure is called obturation. It is accomplished in large artillery pieces that use powder bags with a pad of asphalt-like elastomer under a mushroom-shaped steel pad, built into the breech block.

For a 19th century French breech loading military rifle, the Chassepot, the designers attempted to achieve obturation with a rubber washer. This was a bad idea as implemented, as the rubber charred after about a dozen shots. This contributed to defeat by the Prussians, who had the less advanced Dreyse needle gun. The washer idea could have been made to work, but was designed badly.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at April 28, 2019 07:32 PM (t5m5e)

51 No range for me. Probably a couple of months before I can go again. Rusty probably wouldn't describe my first attempts. I am considering a defensive shooting class when I get cleared.

Posted by: Agitator at April 28, 2019 07:33 PM (m9DnX)

52 Best of luck, emmie !

Let us know how it goes, ok ?

Posted by: sock_rat_eez asks,who is painting these concentric circles on my back all the time ? at April 28, 2019 07:33 PM (wA4OO)

53 Seeing the DuPont powder tin made me think of the Sparks Shot Tower in South Philadelphia, probably the oldest shot tower in America (180

.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparks_Shot_Tower

Posted by: josephistan at April 28, 2019 07:34 PM (Izzlo)

54 What's the real savings on pistol-caliber rounds like the .45 ACP and 9mm? I understand reloading rifle rounds but frankly question the economics of pistol-caliber rounds.

Posted by: WarEagle82 at April 28, 2019 07:34 PM (+Kpte)

55 The NRA lost their way a long time ago.

Sadly, I think this is true. According to something I read in the last day or two, NRA spent like $40M last year with one PR firm. For what? Did you see any NRA presence during the 2018 election season? Have they pursued any important legal cases lately? They folded like a cheap suit on the bump stock ban. The last and only thing they have going for them is the name recognition. I remain a member simply because no other group has the name and the clout that comes with it. But both GOA and SAF seem to me to be more active and pro-active. When I get the inevitable $-beg calls (in the middle of the working day, FFS!) I tell them that any funds available for contribution above membership will go to one of those two.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at April 28, 2019 07:34 PM (qc+VF)

56 I should clarify that obturation is sealing a joint under pressure, using pressure-induced deformation of a seal.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at April 28, 2019 07:36 PM (t5m5e)

57 54 What's the real savings on pistol-caliber rounds like the .45 ACP and 9mm? I understand reloading rifle rounds but frankly question the economics of pistol-caliber rounds.
Posted by: WarEagle82 at April 28, 2019 07:34 PM (+Kpte)
--------
For handguns, the ammo availability issue has always been the motivating factor for me. There is a slight economic benefit, too, but it's not the primary consideration for me. 20% maybe?

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:37 PM (zncPR)

58 We have long been life time members of the NRA and have seen discord in the leadership before. At the moment, we are just waiting to see how the details come out. The MFM will lie about all of it just to hurt the organization (and people who cling to the Bill of Rights).

Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 07:37 PM (bmdz3)

59
Indians-Astros tonight, unfortunately featuring the ESPN Tower of Babble.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 28, 2019 07:38 PM (X3lUd)

60 My NRA membership lapses at the end of next year. Gives me time to think and check out GOA.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at April 28, 2019 07:38 PM (nDe2U)

61 43
So what goes into the decision of what to carry? At
the simplest level long barrels shoot straighter small is easier to
conceal and less of a nuisance to work into your wardrobe.

Do you imagine all incidents within 15 feet? 30?

How do people balance the things?

Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 28, 2019 07:25 PM (fuK7c)

I'm finding myself carrying more and more. I volunteer with an organization and am the treasurer - oftentimes handling cash - sometimes a lot of it. I make sure I have something with me in those cases - right up into making the bank deposit.I've been just starting to game things out. Paying attention to who is in a room, where the exits are, who comes or goes in the room, where I sit in a restaurant, etc. Not focusing too much on distance (yet), more like what is the first 1 or two things I'm going to do if something goes sideways. How do I protect myself and my loved ones. Cover, concealment, etc.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 28, 2019 07:39 PM (D3cJf)

62 Sorry. I've been trying very hard lately to not have conversations that are just me complaining about something. But thinking about what a bureaucratic charlie-foxtrot the NRA has become raises my hackles. I'll shut up about it now.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at April 28, 2019 07:39 PM (qc+VF)

63 Thinking about it I know at least seven if not all shooting groups locally that have gone through some form of organisational dramas , from embezzlement to coup d'etat, to complete meltdown and collapse. It is human nature and gun owners seem very predisposed to be contrary barstewards.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 07:39 PM (bgJ0E)

64 Avs-Sharks now. And this guy sings the hell out of the national anthem.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at April 28, 2019 07:40 PM (nDe2U)

65 62 Sorry. I've been trying very hard lately to not have conversations that are just me complaining about something. But thinking about what a bureaucratic charlie-foxtrot the NRA has become raises my hackles. I'll shut up about it now.
Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at April 28, 2019 07:39 PM (qc+VF)
-------
No man, I'm sure we all appreciate your thoughts on the matter. I know I do!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:40 PM (MVjcR)

66 Wayne LaPierre sure gets paid a lot of money. It's 1.4 million now and it's been raised really fast recently. What irreplaceable skills does he have? What does he do all day?
He looks like he's just cashing in.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at April 28, 2019 07:41 PM (t5m5e)

67 Hope you don't mind, but I moved us outside so I can smoke a cigar.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:43 PM (MVjcR)

68 54 What's the real savings on pistol-caliber rounds like the .45 ACP and 9mm? I understand reloading rifle rounds but frankly question the economics of pistol-caliber rounds.

Posted by: WarEagle82 at April 28, 2019 07:34 PM (+Kpte)

There's some savings with pistol ammunition, you're right, it's not as much as with rifle ammo. It's a trade-off of time vs. money, and each person has to decide if the money savings is worth their time.

I think most reloaders enjoy the activity (I do), so it's not strictly about the money savings.

Posted by: Iowa Bob at April 28, 2019 07:43 PM (bjCNA)

69 I'm a member of the NRA - only because it is a requirement for membership at the range I frequent. Also belong to an 2A organization focused on NH issues. Always bothers me how the NRA touts itself as the truest and only defender of 2A rights, yet doesn't go and fight NY anti-gun laws in court. They even have their organization incorporated in New York.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 28, 2019 07:43 PM (D3cJf)

70 GOA > NRA. Also the Second Amendment Foundation is doing good work as well. Give them both your support.

Posted by: Guzalot at April 28, 2019 07:44 PM (aJPGS)

71 66 Wayne LaPierre sure gets paid a lot of money. It's 1.4 million now and it's been raised really fast recently. What irreplaceable skills does he have? What does he do all day?
He looks like he's just cashing in.
Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at April 28, 2019 07:41 PM (t5m5e)
--------
My thoughts exactly. And if he's so goddamn smart, how did things get all sideways? Did it all occur on his watch? I'm just spitballing here.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:45 PM (MVjcR)

72 67
Hope you don't mind, but I moved us outside so I can smoke a cigar.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:43 PM (MVjcR)

You do have bourbon with you as well, right? Or Cognac? Or perhaps a very nice stout?

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 28, 2019 07:45 PM (D3cJf)

73 Love that top photo of the old Dupont powder can and its decorative features.

Probably 95 percent of the bullets I reload are cast. If I don't make them myself, I get them from Missouri Bullets Company. They come lubed or, for a few bucks more, powder coated. I've never needed the powder coated ones but I tend to reload to low to medium power levels.

Great job describing the components. It's easy to forget that some folks are coming to this with no knowledge of the materials.

Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 07:45 PM (bmdz3)

74 Wayne LaPierre sure gets paid a lot of money. It's 1.4 million now and it's been raised really fast recently. What irreplaceable skills does he have? What does he do all day?
He looks like he's just cashing in.
Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at April 28, 2019 07:41 PM (t5m5e)

Yup.....every time I see the guy I cringe. He always looks angry and smarmy and comes across as a caricature of himself.

He's a clown.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at April 28, 2019 07:45 PM (Z+IKu)

75 "Do you imagine all incidents within 15 feet? 30?

How do people balance the things?
Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 28, 2019 07:25 PM (fuK7c) "

I base a lot of my defensive shooting practice on 21 feet, the distance for a whatsisname drill.

NRA ?
Papa Eez bought me a life membership when I was a teenager ... it's gotta be 30 years ago that the "fundraisers" started taking control of the organization, and that always is the death knell ... I am watching the same thing happening to the ARRL, also a life member, but it's still in the early stages there.

Yes, made it to the range today !
Just 17 rounds, but it's the idea of the thing; one cylinder-full from the mini .22 and the j-frame, one mag from the Sig.
I think all the nickel-on-the-barrel dry fire helped just a bit, seemed like I was getting slightly tighter groups.

Tueller drill, that's the name I was trying to think of !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez asks,who is painting these concentric circles on my back all the time ? at April 28, 2019 07:46 PM (wA4OO)

76 Can someone explain the Ollie North thing to me?

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 07:47 PM (gHd7j)

77 Hope you don't mind, but I moved us outside so I can smoke a cigar.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:43 PM (MVjcR)

What ones?

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 07:47 PM (bgJ0E)

78 On primers, they carry enough energy to blow the brass cup apart and send the shards through skin. Eye protection is a must. Leather gloves are a good idea, when using a handheld primer.

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at April 28, 2019 07:48 PM (t6MX/)

79 63 Thinking about it I know at least seven if not all shooting groups locally that have gone through some form of organisational dramas , from embezzlement to coup d'etat, to complete meltdown and collapse. It is human nature and gun owners seem very predisposed to be contrary barstewards.
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 07:39 PM (bgJ0E)
--------
Agreed, but after more than 100 years and given the size of the organization, you'd think they were past the point of growing pains. Having said that, you don't have to follow publicly traded entities for long to see all sorts of stupid antics going on at the board level. Maybe it's just that?

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:48 PM (MVjcR)

80 is that the modern version of the tactical wheelbarrow i see?

Posted by: dra at April 28, 2019 07:48 PM (Hq3zx)

81 Weasel: I'm also smoking one. Ave Maria Immaculata.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Ridiculous Bullshit at April 28, 2019 07:50 PM (T8HPM)

82
What ones?
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 07:47 PM (bgJ0E)
------
Nothing special! A nice no-brand Nicaraguan maduro. A bundle of 20 are about $50. Good cigars though, and handmade.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:50 PM (MVjcR)

83
You do have bourbon with you as well, right? Or Cognac? Or perhaps a very nice stout?
Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 28, 2019 07:45 PM (D3cJf)
------
Not tonight. A glass of water!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:52 PM (MVjcR)

84 79
63 Thinking about it I know at least seven if not all shooting groups
locally that have gone through some form of organisational dramas , from
embezzlement to coup d'etat, to complete meltdown and collapse. It is
human nature and gun owners seem very predisposed to be contrary
barstewards.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 07:39 PM (bgJ0E)
I can say the same things happened (are happening) at the local club I go to. Whole BOD just resigned this past December. There was a past incident (several years ago) of embezzlement which was swept under the rug. Personality conflicts, etc. There was a tactical practice group there -- focusing on conceal carry, self defense. Head instructor was an excellent teacher and would dream up various scenarios for each session. We gamed out the Aurora Movie theater shooting, Benghazi, someone in your house drawing a knife, strong hand injured in a cooking incident and something goes bump in the night (oh, and you still had to load a magazine, rack a round one handed).

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 28, 2019 07:53 PM (D3cJf)

85 76 Can someone explain the Ollie North thing to me?
Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 07:47 PM (gHd7j)
---------
And me too!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:53 PM (MVjcR)

86 82
Nothing special! A nice no-brand Nicaraguan maduro. A bundle of 20 are about $50. Good cigars though, and handmade.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:50 PM (MVjcR)

Rolled on the thighs of fat ladies?

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 28, 2019 07:54 PM (D3cJf)

87 81 Weasel: I'm also smoking one. Ave Maria Immaculata.
Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Ridiculous Bullshit at April 28, 2019 07:50 PM (T8HPM)
-------
Nice!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:54 PM (MVjcR)

88
Rolled on the thighs of fat ladies?
Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 28, 2019 07:54 PM (D3cJf)
------
Young fiery latinas!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:55 PM (MVjcR)

89 Ben Had and Weasel, I heard on the radio that Ollie North said it was probably his last year. WTF, over? I intend to smoke a cigar and have a stiff drin\kg maybe Wednesday, and after I replace the deck belt on the mower (always a bitchkitty for one person).

Posted by: Eromero at April 28, 2019 07:56 PM (qBNEP)

90 88Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:55 PM (MVjcR)

What part of the country are you in? Not in the New England area, are you?

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 28, 2019 07:56 PM (D3cJf)

91 I believe it is canon that cigars are rolled against the soft brown thighs of Cuban virgins.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 28, 2019 07:57 PM (fuK7c)

92 Hope you don't mind, but I moved us outside so I can smoke a cigar.

Posted by: Weasel
----------
I've never heard it asserted that 'Guns and tobacco don't mix'.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc.,etc. at April 28, 2019 07:57 PM (CDGwz)

93 A Capt. Morgan rum and a cheroot, courtesy of Weasel, and wondering why the NRA is dropping the ball.

PDT hit a homerun by nixing the UN arms treaty.

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 07:58 PM (gHd7j)

94 The names can be deceptively similar and inadvertently confusing them at the reloading bench can have catastrophic results.

Yes, that is when we call those rounds "Project Eldest Son"

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at April 28, 2019 07:58 PM (lD3vL)

95 89 Ben Had and Weasel, I heard on the radio that Ollie North said it was probably his last year. WTF, over? I intend to smoke a cigar and have a stiff drin\kg maybe Wednesday, and after I replace the deck belt on the mower (always a bitchkitty for one person).
Posted by: Eromero at April 28, 2019 07:56 PM (qBNEP)
-------
I heard he left the annual meeting yesterday and his term expires tomorrow.
I agree that LaPierre seems a little slippery, and frankly North does too. At least from here in the cheap seats. I don't personally know either one.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:58 PM (MVjcR)

96 90 88Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:55 PM (MVjcR)

What part of the country are you in? Not in the New England area, are you?
Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 28, 2019 07:56 PM (D3cJf)
------
No, just outside DC in Virginia.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:00 PM (zncPR)

97 76 Can someone explain the Ollie North thing to me?
Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 07:47 PM (gHd7j)

From the BB article.

North "entered into an employment agreement with [Ackerman McQueen] that pays him millions of dollars annually" related to a television series his agency is producing but that, as the Virginia lawsuit explains, the agency will not disclose the details of that contract, which the NRA is demanding in court.

AM is a NRA vendor receiving millions from NRA.

Sounds like a little self-serving by North and an attempt to attack WLP on some old settled issues as a protective measure.

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at April 28, 2019 08:00 PM (t6MX/)

98 93 A Capt. Morgan rum and a cheroot, courtesy of Weasel, and wondering why the NRA is dropping the ball.

PDT hit a homerun by nixing the UN arms treaty.
Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 07:58 PM (gHd7j)
------
Very happy to hear you're still enjoying those!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:00 PM (MVjcR)

99 I belong to both NRA and GOA. As long as they are doing their job I am not too worried about the drama.

When I carry, I find that I am a lot more careful, not speeding, etc. But at the same time a lot more confident and self assured. Also, keep an eye out for what is going on around. I watch the ASP videos on YouTube, which really keeps you centered and humble.

BTW, thanks for a great thread.

Posted by: Pod Hamp at April 28, 2019 08:02 PM (RBFmA)

100 96
90 88Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 07:55 PM (MVjcR)

What part of the country are you in? Not in the New England area, are you?

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 28, 2019 07:56 PM (D3cJf)

------

No, just outside DC in Virginia.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:00 PM (zncPR)Bummer. Would have loved to join you with a cigar - and I'd supply the bourbon (or a stout if preferred).

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 28, 2019 08:02 PM (D3cJf)

101 Side note: true black powder is a completely different thing from smokeless, and neither should be substituted for the other. Black powder is regulated as an explosive for shipping and storage (even if it isn't chemically explosive). It is measured in "volumetric grains" (which it kind of isn't, but close enough), and comes in fineness grades from Fg to 4Fg (sometimes you'll see FFFg instead of 3Fg). A load for a modern cartridge firearm might be eleventy grains of Whamodyne 123+ weight out, with a large rifle primer, while a .45 patched ball flintlock might call for 60-65 grains (maybe two tablespoons) of FFFg, primed with FFFFg. Obviously you shouldn't substitute one powder for the other unless you really know what you're doing. The burn rates are completely different, for starters, as seen in this controlled laboratory test, conducted in a safe environment with full PPE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo9t6gdLizE

Ask JTB or Gray Fox (I think) or one of the other muzzleloading Morons for more about black powder, I'm just a dilettante.

Posted by: hogmartin invites you to the Summer MIMoMe (link: nick) at April 28, 2019 08:03 PM (t+qrx)

102
BTW, thanks for a great thread.
Posted by: Pod Hamp at April 28, 2019 08:02 PM (RBFmA)
-----
Absolutely my pleasure. Glad to have you here!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:03 PM (MVjcR)

103 self-serving = self-dealing

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at April 28, 2019 08:03 PM (t6MX/)

104 Weasel, you sent me enough to last until the next MOMe. My cigarettes are a habit- my cheroots are a gift beyond compare,

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:04 PM (gHd7j)

105
No, just outside DC in Virginia.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:00 PM (zncPR)Bummer. Would have loved to join you with a cigar - and I'd supply the bourbon (or a stout if preferred).
Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 28, 2019 08:02 PM (D3cJf)
------
Maybe one of these days!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:04 PM (MVjcR)

106 Thanks for the gub thread, Mr. Weasel.

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at April 28, 2019 08:05 PM (t6MX/)

107 Just got back from final big box retail shift!
Now to read comments and then make pithy remarks.
Don't no one go away!

Posted by: RI Red at April 28, 2019 08:06 PM (GgQTM)

108 Well horde, enough for one evening. Enjoy your beverage and cigars. Stay safe and keep your head on a swivel.
Weasel - Thanks for doing this thread!!

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 28, 2019 08:06 PM (D3cJf)

109 106 Thanks for the gub thread, Mr. Weasel.
Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at April 28, 2019 08:05 PM (t6MX/)
-------
You're very welcome. It's a lot of fun hanging out with you all.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:06 PM (MVjcR)

110 Weasel @ 95, the first national gun rights function I ever attended was the 2AF in either Indianapolis or St. Louis a long time ago. Since that time been to many NRA conventions, but next time will go back to 2AF. As you probably are aware, most recent Texas 2nd Amendment advances were spearheaded by the Texas State Rifle Association and not the NRA. I am a life member of TSRA, while NRA membership expires in 2027. I'll be 78 then. Heh.

Posted by: Eromero at April 28, 2019 08:06 PM (qBNEP)

111
Weasel - Thanks for doing this thread!!
Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 28, 2019 08:06 PM (D3cJf)
----
Thank you for participating!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:07 PM (MVjcR)

112 Posted by: RI Red at April 28, 2019 08:06 PM (GgQTM)
------
Congrats on un-retiring!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:08 PM (MVjcR)

113 Eromero, all good things come to an end. GOA and other 2nd amendment rights groups are picking up the mantle.

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:09 PM (gHd7j)

114 110 Weasel @ 95, the first national gun rights function I ever attended was the 2AF in either Indianapolis or St. Louis a long time ago. Since that time been to many NRA conventions, but next time will go back to 2AF. As you probably are aware, most recent Texas 2nd Amendment advances were spearheaded by the Texas State Rifle Association and not the NRA. I am a life member of TSRA, while NRA membership expires in 2027. I'll be 78 then. Heh.
Posted by: Eromero at April 28, 2019 08:06 PM (qBNEP)
--------
Drop me a line sometime. I know some of the guys in the TSRA that shoot F-Class.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:10 PM (MVjcR)

115 OT but I just turned on the Tennis Channel to a woman's match where one of the players is wearing black hot pants with a black tank top and long black socks. She might be going to her second job at the Gentlemen's Club after the match is over.

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at April 28, 2019 08:10 PM (2DOZq)

116 Mr Weasel , I tend to agree in your view, as personality biases and group think become entrenched over time until a tipping point is reached and there is a re-set. My thinking is coloured by the fading and decline of the " club " organisation here. My theory is that most clubs for amusement, entertainment, sport, philanthropy, volunteer movement, etc were started aprox 100 years ago pre or post WWI. Be it a chess club, a sporting club, a church organisation or a shooting club its followed a predictable Victorian pattern. Identify a need or want in some activity, find like minded people,establish a facility, fund raise to allow or promote activity and setup a hierarchy, complete with sec, treasurer, president, committee, etc.
This worked as a pattern until the loss of community and modern living causes the isolated individual who is not prepared to interact unless it benefits them. The club pattern only works when there is a volunteer/s mostly unpaid who does the organisation background work. Now there are not the people with an interest in this unless dollars are forthcoming. There is also too much choice on what to spend your time on versus a small town 120 years ago wanting to start a tennis club.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:11 PM (bgJ0E)

117 Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:11 PM (bgJ0E)
-----
Great points! I've been in a few volunteer organizations where a handful of people do all of the work.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:13 PM (MVjcR)

118 Nothing to say except very interesting and I appreciate these posts.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at April 28, 2019 08:13 PM (LWu6U)

119 Smokeless powder is not an explosive, but instead is technically classified as a flammible solid which burns very quickly.

Back in my misspent youth, I would take a primered shotgun shell and fill it to capacity with whatever powder I had that I couldn't identify as to type or age. Then I would crimp the top, SuperGlue a BB to the primer and attach 3x5 card fins so that the shell would look like a short yard Jart where the intended landing would be on the BB.

These were great at parties, just lob a few up in the air and let them land in the driveway or alley and make this profoundly loud BOOM.

Naturally, the police were summoned and were shown that the Party Pops were not using illegal explosives, but merely burned legal propellants. There is no ordinance restricting the controlled burning of propellants.

Oddly enough - never cited even for noise violations. Because these aren't even firecrackers.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at April 28, 2019 08:14 PM (lD3vL)

120 NZ Frank, narrow your community and hunker down,

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:14 PM (gHd7j)

121 Ollie North has been President of the NRA for less than a year. Blaming him for the long existing problems and the current controversies doesn't seem logical but who knows.

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at April 28, 2019 08:14 PM (2DOZq)

122 121 Ollie North has been President of the NRA for less than a year. Blaming him for the long existing problems and the current controversies doesn't seem logical but who knows.
Posted by: Can't resist temptation at April 28, 2019 08:14 PM (2DOZq)
--------
Very true! It very well could be he's the hero in all this, but I wish they'd been able to resolve whatever is going on without the public drama.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:17 PM (MVjcR)

123 Weasel - outstanding gub thread, as usual, kudos!

A tiny contribution and a quibble/possibly incorrect correction.

For online component shopping, ammoseek.com (an essential for online ammo price comparison) also has a reloading section, where you can search components. Ammoseek, like any shopping engine, is limited by the vendors who are part of its system, and its component vendors are far less numerous than its ammo vendors - but all the names you listed will be there, so, always my first stop when checking prices and availability. (the site also has a search area for magazines, which I 've found useful)

Many reloaders have their own "secret stash" of online sources who are not canvassed by any online shopping engine. I know I have a few. Usually smaller, regional outfits. During panics/shortages, and sometimes for clearance sales, etc., such sources can be quite valuable.

As to my tentative quibble, isn't that projectile in the .38 special photo a flat-nosed bullet, *not* a semi-wadcutter? Thought a SWC would have a small flat area around the base, the bullet would not fill the full diameter of the caliber.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 08:17 PM (QDnY+)

124 My thinking is coloured by the fading and decline of the " club " organisation here

Blame regulatory and insurance costs. Home Bible Studies have been criminalized because of alleged Zoning Infractions.

Have a regular meeting where people do things, there is always some asshole who gets hurt and decides to make the sponsor of the facilities underwrite the medical care, pain and suffering, and the lifelong disability.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at April 28, 2019 08:17 PM (lD3vL)

125 118 Nothing to say except very interesting and I appreciate these posts.
Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at April 28, 2019 08:13 PM (LWu6U)
------
You are very welcome.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:18 PM (MVjcR)

126 Yeoman's work as usual, Weasel.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 28, 2019 08:19 PM (NWiLs)

127 Gunga la Gunga.

Posted by: JT at April 28, 2019 08:19 PM (Vquhj)

128 *giggles*

"I am officially announcing today that the United States will be revoking the effect of America's signature from this misguided treatment," Mr. Trump told gun rights activists gathered for the NRA's annual meetings. "We're taking our signature back."

"My administration will never ratify the UN Arms Trade Treaty," he said. "I hope you're happy."

Trump (to UN): Pound sand.

Posted by: SMH at April 28, 2019 08:19 PM (RU4sa)

129 120 NZ Frank, narrow your community and hunker down,
Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:14 PM (gHd7j)

Oh we are. There are a lot of unhappy bunnies here. I do not feel it will spark anything directly at the moment, but the way the media, po po and our un-elected masters are treating us will not be forgotten. Oliphaunts we are.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:20 PM (bgJ0E)

130 Been maybe two years ago but there is a cigar store in the People's republic of New Jersey ( Smoking Dog) that on a talk show suggested not to get Cuban cigars, first was quality was not where it use to be as much knowledge went elsewhere, second is production is entirely owned by the government and or the ruling Communists and sales go straight to their pockets.

Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2019 08:20 PM (BbGew)

131 arya kills the night king. great job, davids.

Posted by: what at April 28, 2019 08:21 PM (bU9e3)

132 Gunga la Gunga.
Posted by: JT at April 28, 2019 08:19 PM

So we've got that going for us.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at April 28, 2019 08:21 PM (/oI0U)

133 SMH - you and me Lady. This should have been big fucking news.

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:21 PM (gHd7j)

134 Do primers outdate?

Posted by: EdmundBurkesShade at April 28, 2019 08:21 PM (gSgAd)

135 101 ... hogmartin covered the black powder vs smokeless powder correctly. Black powder produces lower pressures than modern. Original BP guns should NEVER be shot with modern powders. Same for reproductions, like cap and ball revolvers. There are plenty of pictures of BP guns blown up after some fool used modern powder. ("Hey! The powder was black." said two-fingers Malone.)

One surprise about black powder, it is comparatively easy to load it for consistent results such as muzzle velocity. Modern powder is much more finicky.

Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 08:22 PM (bmdz3)

136 Last week, a couple of us -- McGyver and one other -- were talking about 6.5 Grendel AR builds. I wanted to ask a few other questions.

I found a page for the Sanders Armory side-charging upper which appears to be out of stock at the moment, assuming they still sell them. It comes with a .223 bolt. Did you just buy a 6.5 Gr II bolt and swap them? Which bolt?

Which barrel did you use? I would like something at least 20" and 22 or even 24 would be nice.

Does the Grendel use a standard .223 rifle buffer?

Anything else I should know?

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at April 28, 2019 08:22 PM (qc+VF)

137
As to my tentative quibble, isn't that projectile in the .38 special photo a flat-nosed bullet, *not* a semi-wadcutter? Thought a SWC would have a small flat area around the base, the bullet would not fill the full diameter of the caliber.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 08:17 PM (QDnY+)
---------
That was an alertness test!! Congratulations!

You are correct sir, I stand corrected!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:22 PM (MVjcR)

138 I've been in a few volunteer organizations where a handful of people do all of the work.

Same here. Seems to be the rule, rather than the exception.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at April 28, 2019 08:22 PM (EgshT)

139 arya kills the night king. great job, davids.

I will settle scores with those who digitized out Arya's nipples last week.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 28, 2019 08:23 PM (fuK7c)

140 "My administration will never ratify the UN Arms Trade Treaty," he said. "I hope you're happy."

Trump (to UN): Pound sand.
Posted by: SMH at April 28, 2019 08:19 PM (RU4sa)

In which we join half the world including many developed nations in recognizing the failure that is ATT.

Good riddance. People like to rag on the NRA. But this is a big NRA win, and they backed Trump unflinchingly, early.

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at April 28, 2019 08:23 PM (t6MX/)

141 134 Do primers outdate?
Posted by: EdmundBurkesShade at April 28, 2019 08:21 PM (gSgAd)
-------
Good question. If properly stored, I'd imagine they will last for years.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:24 PM (MVjcR)

142 Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at April 28, 2019 08:14 PM

Allegedly we use to take 30mm rounds, pop off the solid shot ( practice rounds) and had a Roman candle if you lit it.

Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2019 08:24 PM (BbGew)

143 I've been in a few volunteer organizations where a handful of people do all of the work.

Member of a local archery club. Its more fun to build the static targets and set-up/take-down 3D targets for the competitions then it is to just lob arrows down range.

Some of us look at club memberships as a hobby.

At the local rifle range club, there are some members who simply enjoy being out there to train other members the finer points of competition shooting.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at April 28, 2019 08:24 PM (lD3vL)

144 Thanks insom. Glad to have you here.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:24 PM (MVjcR)

145 Weasel, wanna do a response to PDT telling the UN to go fuck themselves>?

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:24 PM (gHd7j)

146
"My administration will never ratify the UN Arms Trade Treaty," he said. "I hope you're happy."

Trump (to UN): Pound sand.

Fuck . Am I jealous you have him.

I am deciding on land in Utah or Texas if the suppressor plan works out. I love the people in UT but my Don't mess with Texas tattoo may be hard to explain there.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:25 PM (bgJ0E)

147 145 Weasel, wanna do a response to PDT telling the UN to go fuck themselves>?
Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:24 PM (gHd7j)
------
Well I could, but I suspect we'd all just agree!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:26 PM (MVjcR)

148 NZFrank, we want you here in TX.

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:26 PM (gHd7j)

149 JTB I agree that a little less or more in a BP in a musket is hard to notice

Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2019 08:26 PM (BbGew)

150 Oh, also have been appreciating the reloading posts. Although I don't reload and probably won't start, the information you have is interesting and informative. Looking forward to another installment.

Posted by: Pod Hamp at April 28, 2019 08:27 PM (RBFmA)

151
I am deciding on land in Utah or Texas if the suppressor plan works out. I love the people in UT but my Don't mess with Texas tattoo may be hard to explain there.
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:25 PM (bgJ0E)
-------
Be great to have you here in the states, amigo.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:27 PM (MVjcR)

152 We have long been life time members of the NRA and have seen discord in the leadership before. At the moment, we are just waiting to see how the details come out.

-->--> The MFM will lie about all of it just to hurt the organization (and people who cling to the Bill of Rights).

Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 07:37 PM (bmdz3)

Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 08:28 PM (xcd1u)

153 Aaah, great thread, Weasel. This one goes in the binder for linkage.
I LUV lead semi-wadcutter bullets for my 1911 and my SW .38. Nice and greasy so they slide down the barrel faster (ergo, less power to load) and they make great precise holes.

Posted by: RI Red at April 28, 2019 08:28 PM (GgQTM)

154 Ben, if things go really well I can do both. Thanks for thinking I could qualify as Texan.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:29 PM (bgJ0E)

155 Short read
https://www.thediplomad.com
Trump Strikes Again: Dumping the UN Arms Treaty

Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2019 08:29 PM (BbGew)

156 Allegedly we use to take 30mm rounds, pop off the solid shot ( practice rounds) and had a Roman candle if you lit it.

Sounds like fun... well a disaster in the making. At the time the common roof material in the community was untreated cedar shakes.

The other fun thing to do was tape together a bunch of industrial plastic trashbags and load it with LP, or if more lift was required, take a bunch of zinc coated nails or sliced pennies, throw them in a bucket of pool acid and collect the hydrogen as it boiled out.

Then attach some cannon fuse and let the winds take the ersatz Hindenburg off for a short trip. Using hydrogen would occasionally get the police involved. Just hope the wind put enough distance between the KABOOM and the launch site.

It was even more fun to attach sheets of aluminum foil to the blimp and let the local airport wonder what happened on their radar.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at April 28, 2019 08:29 PM (lD3vL)

157 Posted by: Pod Hamp at April 28, 2019 08:27 PM (RBFmA)
------
Very nice of you to say so. It's really a fun hobby. Reloading precision rifle loads for competition is much more involved. I need to think of a better way to cover that material down the road sometime.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:30 PM (MVjcR)

158 141 ... I have used primers that were over 20 years old. No problems. They were stored in the unheated garage.

Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 08:31 PM (bmdz3)

159 NZFrank, if you come to Utah you can get a CTR tattoo. You will fit right in with the returned missionaries.

Posted by: Pod Hamp at April 28, 2019 08:32 PM (RBFmA)

160 NZFank. We have a home for you and a customer base that will meet all your needs.

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:32 PM (gHd7j)

161 I am deciding on land in Utah or Texas if the suppressor plan works out. I love the people in UT but my Don't mess with Texas tattoo may be hard to explain there.

I've often felt like Aussies and Texans had a lot in common, a stubbornly independent streak and a certain, uh, "attitude" to anybody who tried to look down on us. I think you'd fit right in if you can manage to overlook our accents.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at April 28, 2019 08:32 PM (qc+VF)

162 Regarding holsters: TT Gunleather was recommended to me, and I've used the same IWB holster for several years. All leather construction, reinforced mouth, and the holster is snug enough that I can do a back flip break dance move without my gun falling out and shooting someone. (there's video of "one of the only ones" doing something like I just mentioned)

Posted by: Blake - used vacation salesman at April 28, 2019 08:32 PM (WEBkv)

163 NZ Frank goes to the highest bidder! Whadda I hear for NZFrank?!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:33 PM (zncPR)

164 PDT telling the UN to go fuck themselves

Beating down the commies at every opportunity. I love it.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at April 28, 2019 08:34 PM (EgshT)

165 Anyone here use Garrett holsters! Kydex over leather. Very nicely made, too.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:34 PM (MVjcR)

166 The more expensive "match" primers are exactly the same as standard primers, they're simply made by the most experienced production line workers.

I need to see a video on how primers are made. Its difficult for me to imagine some old geezers building these things by hand.

it easier for me to imagine someone pushing a large green or red button to control the assembly process.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at April 28, 2019 08:35 PM (lD3vL)

167 Weasel, opening bid $500,000 and that is low bid.

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:35 PM (gHd7j)

168 167 Weasel, opening bid $500,000 and that is low bid.
Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:35 PM (gHd7j)
--------
Gonna be hard to beat that!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:36 PM (MVjcR)

169 Mr Weasel, just to get back to the reloading part of the thread, I am trying to do new baseline loads for my .338LM using Berger VLD 250 AND 300gn projectiles. I acquired a Sig Sauer2400BDX range finder after this years SHOT show and once I get decent groups and chrony, I will load into the bal calc, Looking at targets from 1400 to 2100 mtrs.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:36 PM (bgJ0E)

170 Re: holsters. How many here have a bin of holsters from just trying different things?
Aye!

Posted by: RI Red at April 28, 2019 08:36 PM (GgQTM)

171 Good night horde

And hope NZ Frank doesn't wind up to be divided by King Solomon

Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2019 08:36 PM (BbGew)

172 I've often felt like Aussies and Texans had a lot in common, a stubbornly independent streak and a certain, uh, "attitude" to anybody who tried to look down on us. I think you'd fit right in if you can manage to overlook our accents.

Its ironic because I have heard of many a Texan say, that when the US Left does indeed overreach or enters the Zombie Apocalypse that the escape tunnel leads to NZ.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at April 28, 2019 08:37 PM (lD3vL)

173
My stupid neighbor.
She's selling her house. Now I have to worry about who's gonna buy her house and move in.

Good neighbors, and by "good" I mean quiet, normal, employed, etc, are the key. I hate to see her and her stupid kids go. Her yappy dog won't be missed but he's kinda a watchdog, I guess.

Plus, she's taking her two cats with her (I assume). Which means, Rodent Control will be in jeopardy.

Posted by: Soothsayer'c at April 28, 2019 08:37 PM (oVvUa)

174 a CTR tattoo?

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:37 PM (bgJ0E)

175 Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at April 28, 2019 08:32 PM (qc+VF)

New Zealand / Australia

220 / 221

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at April 28, 2019 08:38 PM (2DOZq)

176 Went to the range today. It is -hard- getting to a range where I am. But it was awesome. Got to use a .308 with a dot sight, assault rifle, and two pistols. Even my girl liked it- but didn't like being nearly deaf.

Can't wait to do more of it.

Posted by: trev006 at April 28, 2019 08:38 PM (pZ+Vo)

177 While I read thru the rest of the post and the comments, here is a pic of the build I did last week. https://preview.tinyurl.com/65grendelbuild Giggles helped with the pic, as she is back for her fishing float trip.

Which is good, because we had blizzard conditions this am

McGyver, over

Posted by: McGyver at April 28, 2019 08:38 PM (gMngZ)

178
I've often felt like Aussies and Texans had a lot in common,

Now that's fighting talk!

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:38 PM (bgJ0E)

179 169 Mr Weasel, just to get back to the reloading part of the thread, I am trying to do new baseline loads for my .338LM using Berger VLD 250 AND 300gn projectiles. I acquired a Sig Sauer2400BDX range finder after this years SHOT show and once I get decent groups and chrony, I will load into the bal calc, Looking at targets from 1400 to 2100 mtrs.
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:36 PM (bgJ0E)
-------
Nice. Are you familiar with the ballistic software QuickLoad? I think it would be perfect for your application. It has some advanced internal and external ballistic modeling capabilities.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:38 PM (MVjcR)

180
While we find the antics of Florida Man somewhat amusing, there's nothing funny about Tennessee Man:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6969635

The Breaking Wheel for this POS.

Posted by: Jonah Goldberg, still without pants at April 28, 2019 08:39 PM (NMAzL)

181 As we drift away from reloading,
Sunday Mornings with Maria Bartiromo, today, live from the Mexican border at El Paso.

It was an excellent show and can be seen at Fox vids or on YouTube.

I don't like promoting the toober; however, my computer can't digest all of Fox's script and ol google he gives it to you easy ...up front.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 08:40 PM (xcd1u)

182 OK, Aussies and Americans were both kicked out of all the self-respecting parts of Europe. Where do Kiwis come from?

Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 28, 2019 08:40 PM (fuK7c)

183 Of course NZFrank you are extremely welcome anywhere in the US, but it makes me sad to think another outpost of (limited) freedom is going dark, forcing "refugees" to flee.

In our dreams, kiwis would regain some common sense and throw off the idiocy of their "elites".

It's actually especially painful, to see this in the anglosphere, cradle and (mostly) home of human freedom.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 08:40 PM (QDnY+)

184
I kinda want a dog to watch the place while I'm out. But a cat would be nice to keep mice away. I have no mice -- I'd like to keep it that way.

They say a mouse can fit in a 1/4" crack.

Posted by: Soothsayer'c at April 28, 2019 08:40 PM (oVvUa)

185 New Zealand / Australia

220 / 221

Yeah, I realized that after hitting post. Sorry.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at April 28, 2019 08:41 PM (qc+VF)

186 Holster story:
Bought my Model 10 .38 back in '74 (no, not 1874!) and my bil wanted to get me a holster for it. Problem being, he lived in NY. The store claimed that NY needed to know who owned it and the serial #!
They were bastards even back then.

Posted by: RI Red at April 28, 2019 08:41 PM (GgQTM)

187 Not heard much of Quickload. I use Shooter for most but the Sig kILO 2400 app on the range finder looks good. Off to look at Quickload,

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:41 PM (bgJ0E)

188
Would it be wrong if I stole one of her cats and made it live in the shed?

Posted by: Soothsayer'c at April 28, 2019 08:41 PM (oVvUa)

189 Oops, somebody mixed up NZ and Oz?

Well, better here than at a bar in Wanaka close to closing, eh NZFrank?

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 08:42 PM (QDnY+)

190 NZFrank. We have Abbott , Utah has a bunch of squishes,

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:42 PM (gHd7j)

191 170 Re: holsters. How many here have a bin of holsters from just trying different things?
Aye!
Posted by: RI Red at April 28, 2019 08:36 PM (GgQTM)
-----------

*raises hand*

Posted by: Blake - used vacation salesman at April 28, 2019 08:42 PM (WEBkv)

192 So what is the best way to dial in the best powder shot for a particular rifle round (goal is increased precision)? Lets say that the loading data says between Q and R grains for a given projectile.

Make X rounds of each candidate load and bring out the calipers? What sort of increment?

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at April 28, 2019 08:43 PM (lD3vL)

193 186 Holster story:
Bought my Model 10 .38 back in '74 (no, not 1874!) and my bil wanted to get me a holster for it. Problem being, he lived in NY. The store claimed that NY needed to know who owned it and the serial #!
They were bastards even back then.
Posted by: RI Red at April 28, 2019 08:41 PM (GgQTM)
-------
Good grief. I have a Colt NM in .45ACP that I researched through Colt. It was originally shipped to the John Jovino gun store in NYC back in the 60s.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:45 PM (MVjcR)

194 56. "pressure-induced deformation of a seal" Pics or it didn't happen

Posted by: The Penguin at April 28, 2019 08:45 PM (gMngZ)

195 Rabbi Who Survived Synagogue Shooting: President Called Me To Convey Condolences, Was 'So Comforting'

https://tinyurl.com/y3gjs4fs

Two classy guys.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at April 28, 2019 08:46 PM (+y/Ru)

196 NZFrank, tell me whatI need to do to have you make theMoMe in October.

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:46 PM (gHd7j)

197 Re: holsters. How many here have a bin of holsters from just trying different things?

I would just like to locate a decent holder for any one of my non-commodity handguns.

yeah sure, one can practically find garden variety M&P, 1911 or Glock holsters lying along the street, but how does one locate and acquire something like a range holster for an FL FNX-45 with an RMR?

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at April 28, 2019 08:47 PM (lD3vL)

198 190 NZFrank. We have Abbott , Utah has a bunch of squishes,
Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:42 PM (gHd7j)

Utah looks more like NZ but on the other hand California is beautiful and I wouldn't live there if you paid me. Well maybe not. Everyone has a price .

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at April 28, 2019 08:47 PM (2DOZq)

199 192 So what is the best way to dial in the best powder shot for a particular rifle round (goal is increased precision)? Lets say that the loading data says between Q and R grains for a given projectile.

Make X rounds of each candidate load and bring out the calipers? What sort of increment?
Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at April 28, 2019 08:43 PM (lD3vL)
-------
It's really a two step process. First you find the accuracy node where incremental increases in powder charge do not produce vertical dispersion, then tune by bullet seating depth.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:47 PM (MVjcR)

200 Thanks for another informative gun thread, Weasel.

Looking forward to reloading again after being away from it for a few years.

Dinner time in AZ....

Posted by: Love Gun, givin' you a shot at April 28, 2019 08:48 PM (YRYj+)

201 NZFrank, tell me whatI need to do to have you make theMoMe in October.

So who kicks off the GoFundMe?

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at April 28, 2019 08:48 PM (lD3vL)

202 182 OK, Aussies and Americans were both kicked out of all the self-respecting parts of Europe. Where do Kiwis come from?
Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 28, 2019 08:40 PM (fuK7c)

The difference between a Kiwi and a Strine? (Aussie) Kiwis paid to go to their new country.
Pale Kiwis are mostly UK stock. Scots Irish Welsh. I am Wiking on both sides Scot- Manx.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:48 PM (bgJ0E)

203 196 NZFrank, tell me whatI need to do to have you make theMoMe in October.
Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:46 PM (gHd7j)
-----
Wouldn't that be great?

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:48 PM (MVjcR)

204 At the moment, I probably can't reload 9mm for less than sale prices but that is one of the few exceptions. (Even 38 special ammo is not cheap.) But having built up sizable amounts of handgun brass over decades and using scrounged metal for casting my own bullets, I could load 38 specials for less than 22lr during the recent shortage.

Saving money can be a factor in reloading, even for handgun ammo but it isn't the main one. Having the capability to reload as well as tailoring the ammo as desired counts for much more. Plus it's fun and rather satisfying.

Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 08:49 PM (bmdz3)

205 As per usual, great thread, Weasel.

I need to wander off as I've things to attend to.

Keep up the great work!

Posted by: Blake - used vacation salesman at April 28, 2019 08:49 PM (WEBkv)

206 BlueBird of Fing Joy. I will do this . No one else required.

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:50 PM (gHd7j)

207 BBFJ, I use a ladder approach starting with lowest recommended dosage and going to highest in increments. It is usually readily apparent which load is best for your firearm.
Then (thank you, Weasel, I use that load and experiment with bullet seating depths on usually a .003 ladder. Again, it becomes obvious when you see the precision.
As to measuring, I just use center to center of the largest hits, disallowing for obvious flyers.
Usually, you won't even need to measure, because the visual is adequate.

Posted by: RI Red at April 28, 2019 08:50 PM (GgQTM)

208 200 Thanks for another informative gun thread, Weasel.

Looking forward to reloading again after being away from it for a few years.

Dinner time in AZ....
Posted by: Love Gun, givin' you a shot at April 28, 2019 08:48 PM (YRYj+)
------
My pleasure! Thanks for stopping by!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:50 PM (MVjcR)

209 134 Do primers outdate?

Posted by: EdmundBurkesShade at April 28, 2019 08:21 PM (gSgAd)

I try to rotate my stock to avoid that, but last year I found two bricks (2,000 primers) with a 1992 date I had written on them, that I had somehow misplaced. I've been using them and they seem to go bang just fine.

Posted by: Iowa Bob at April 28, 2019 08:50 PM (bjCNA)

210 Well, better here than at a bar in Wanaka close to closing, eh NZFrank?
Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 08:42 PM (QDnY+)

I have a scar from a New Years eve bar fight from 30 or so years ago in Wanaka.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:50 PM (bgJ0E)

211 On cost savings through reloading, it of course depends completely on your cost basis, which can vary widely. I do look at this, and I try not to use outliers (incredible local or clearance sale on ammo, incredible local deal on bullets or primers) in doing the comparison, since that's not typical. And I'm talking, always and only, about range fodder/gun food/stuff for practice and friendly competitions, not serious long-range stuff like Weasel loads - that's a different world.

Last time I did a back-of-envelope analysis of this topic, I was saving 50% even on 9mm and 45ACP and .38 special, and this was after ammo prices started to come down. On 30 carbine, and 30-06 for the M1 - more like 60-70% savings over best factory ammo price.

As Weasel always notes, this is critical, cost comparisons leave out the *qualitative* advantages of reloading - i.e. customizing your ammo to your personal needs or desires (a soft load for teaching newbies, or as I do a load that replicates the felt recoil of expensive self-defense ammo, for practice). And as another commenter noted, reloading, esp. after you're in the groove, is fun and part of the hobby.

Speaking of costs, I have not (yet?) gone "all the way" and started casting my own lead projectiles. One major cost advantage there has always been free lead - which I believe, with industry changes and lead-phobia etc., is less the case these day (wheel weights fueled a whole generation's free lead casting activities). Have not priced lead ingots made for this purpose, but imagine you'll still see savings over commercial lead bullets.

If/when you do cast your own, and if you do have a free or near-free source of lead ...... then ammo becomes ridiculously inexpensive.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 08:51 PM (QDnY+)

212 Posted by: Blake - used vacation salesman at April 28, 2019 08:49 PM (WEBkv)
------
Thanks as always, Blake.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:52 PM (MVjcR)

213 NZFrank - ha! What? A bar fight? In NZ? Hard to imagine!

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 08:53 PM (QDnY+)

214 203 196 NZFrank, tell me whatI need to do to have you make theMoMe in October.
Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:46 PM (gHd7j)
-----
Wouldn't that be great?
Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:48 PM (MVjcR)

Thanks both of you. Make me blush you do. The MoMe is on my radar. My Tex business buddy arrives in two weeks for some hunting, so I will talk with him. If I have the dollars in time I will love to be there. If not this year the next.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:53 PM (bgJ0E)

215 Didja see Biden's shotgun song?

https://tinyurl.com/y46qr6ue

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at April 28, 2019 08:54 PM (+y/Ru)

216 Where do Kiwis come from?
Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 28, 2019 08:40 PM

I was told you could ask the sheep in Scotland, but they don't want to talk about it.

Of course, it was a Digger who told me this, so it might be slightly suspect.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at April 28, 2019 08:55 PM (DMUuz)

217 209. I lived in Lewiston, ID where the cci/speer plant is and ended up with thousands of primers during JEFs reign of error. Stacks of them. Idaho is a great place.

Posted by: EdmundBurkesShade at April 28, 2019 08:56 PM (gSgAd)

218 Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 08:51 PM (QDnY+)
-------
I'd absolutely agree with these numbers! Once you get past the "oh shit don't let me blow myself up" stage, it's amazing how you can tailor loads. Really, totally, amazing.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:56 PM (MVjcR)

219 NZFrank. life is finite and so I need you now while I can still make this work,

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:57 PM (gHd7j)

220 yeah sure, one can practically find garden variety M&P, 1911 or Glock holsters lying along the street, but how does one locate and acquire something like a range holster for an FL FNX-45 with an RMR?
Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at April 28, 2019 08:47 PM (lD3vL)

I don't know about the sight, but PJ Holster does a lot of custom Kydex. The options on the order form are for various lasers and lights, but it wouldn't hurt to email Paul and see what he can do for you.

https://pjholster.com/about

Posted by: hogmartin invites you to the Summer MIMoMe (link: nick) at April 28, 2019 08:57 PM (t+qrx)

221 Jonah Goldberg @ 180- There is no punishment harsh enough for these crimes. It would have been very difficult for many Texas leo's to cuff this 'person', as he obviously refused to comply.

Posted by: Eromero at April 28, 2019 08:57 PM (qBNEP)

222 213 NZFrank - ha! What? A bar fight? In NZ? Hard to imagine!
Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 08:53 PM (QDnY+)

Yes we are gentle peaceful hobbits. Pixie dust and unicorns abound.
Most of my bar fights were in London, Muchen, Glasgow and Dublin. Well the Muchen affair was on a railway bridge to be honest.....

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:59 PM (bgJ0E)

223 Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 08:51 PM (QDnY+)
-------
I'd absolutely agree with these numbers! Once you get past the "oh shit don't let me blow myself up" stage, it's amazing how you can tailor loads. Really, totally, amazing.
Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 08:56 PM (MVjcR

Addictive, even, because you keep trying
to beat your last loads. And great if you're ADHD.
It typifies Attention To Detail.

Posted by: RI Red at April 28, 2019 09:00 PM (GgQTM)

224 219 NZFrank. life is finite and so I need you now while I can still make this work,
Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 08:57 PM (gHd7j)

OK that sounds errr interesting?

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 09:00 PM (bgJ0E)

225 a CTR tattoo?
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 08:37 PM

CTR stands for Choose The Right.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at April 28, 2019 09:01 PM (DMUuz)

226 NZFrank, CTR means "choose the right". Popular on jewelry worn by LDS youth. Some also joke that it refers to the voting habits of Utahns.

Posted by: Pod Hamp at April 28, 2019 09:02 PM (RBFmA)

227 Oh, somebody raised the topic up-thread, and I can use some wisdom.

"Hang fires"

I have some "yellow tip" 7.62X54R Soviet surplus ammo, late 1950s production (yellow tip is 182 grain, the "heavy ball" version of the caliber, also the weight used for sniper ammo - which, in Russian, is called "snaiperskiye" - no, not kidding).

Lead range officer on my duty day gave them to me. I fired 3 or 4, but stopped.

Trigger pull. Half-second count. Boom. Performance otherwise normal.

Is this a hang-fire? What causes these? Safe to shoot? I prefer Zero Hinkiness with ammo, imagine that, so I pulled a few bullets, used the powder for my herb garden, and kept the projectile for that long-off day when my stack of com-bloc surplus is all shot up, and I start to reload for my Mosin-Nagants. But I'll shoot 'em if it's safe.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:02 PM (QDnY+)

228
CTR stands for Choose The Right.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at April 28, 2019 09:01 PM (DMUuz)

To Parrrrrrty?

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 09:02 PM (bgJ0E)

229 Ok, can't believe I'm saying this: Off to watch Game of Thrones.
Did someone say something about Arya's nips?

Posted by: RI Red at April 28, 2019 09:02 PM (GgQTM)

230
Addictive, even, because you keep trying
to beat your last loads. And great if you're ADHD.
It typifies Attention To Detail.
Posted by: RI Red at April 28, 2019 09:00 PM (GgQTM)
-------
Man, isn't that ever the truth! If,you ever want to see 200 identical personalities, go to a big F-Class match

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:03 PM (zncPR)

231 NZFrank. TX is the MOME of all MoMe's How do I explain that everybody wants to talk to you.

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 09:04 PM (gHd7j)

232 Beginners question. Where is the best place to buy 20 and 28 gauge shells?

Posted by: LASue at April 28, 2019 09:04 PM (XROPS)

233 Posted by: RI Red at April 28, 2019 09:02 PM (GgQTM)
------
'Night, amigo!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:05 PM (MVjcR)

234 To Parrrrrrty?
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 09:02 PM

It's clear now. The right choice is Texas.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at April 28, 2019 09:05 PM (DMUuz)

235
I have some "yellow tip" 7.62X54R Soviet surplus ammo, late 1950s production (yellow tip is 182 grain, the "heavy ball" version of the caliber, also the weight used for sniper ammo - which, in Russian, is called "snaiperskiye" - no, not kidding).

If there is some grey with the yellow its is prolly Hungarian manufacture. I need the heavy load 203gn for the Maxim 1910 HMG.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 09:05 PM (bgJ0E)

236 I have the new Lee Deluxe Perfect powder measure and stand coming this week. As I do more rifle shooting and careful handgun target work, I want to be able to easily work up various loads. Once I get a chance to use it, I'll make a report.

Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 09:07 PM (bmdz3)

237 Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 09:07 PM (bmdz3)
--------
Will look forward to the review!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:08 PM (MVjcR)

238 My last question relates to longevity/shelf-life of ammo and components.

Kept in good conditions, loaded ammo and components all have a very very long shelf-life. Powder in fact is the only one with an issue - rest of it (including primers, I'd bet, given how little active ingredient there is) is immortal as you'd expect - brass, steel, copper, and lead don't deteriorate.

Powder does chemically age over time, depending how it's stored (including in loaded ammo). I guess a general rule would be - unless the storage conditions were horrendous (esp. high heat for prolonged periods), or the ammo is old enough to check on its collectibility, you're fine.

Oldest ammo I've shot is 1946 Russian 54R (came on the stainless steel stripper clips and in the little string-closed cardboard boxes, just as it did during the Great Patriotic War, which took place the same time as the series of minor skirmishes known in the west as "WWII").

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:09 PM (QDnY+)

239 NZFrank I'll go check, but pretty sure Soviet manufacture, Frunze arsenal (no. 60).

LASue! I have a suggestion. Go to ammoseek.com. There you'll find a nation-wide price comparison, including shipping rates. Anyway, always my first step when buying ammo (which I basically have not done for years, aside from some self-defense fancy stuff, and shotgun ammo, ahead of CA's latest idiotic gun law).

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:12 PM (QDnY+)

240 Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:09 PM (QDnY+)
-------
The oldest surplus ammo I've used is Greek HXP (as I recall) from the 50's and it all behaved like it was new.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:12 PM (zncPR)

241 Is there a "best source" to look at for purchasing a Mosin-Nagant?

Posted by: EdmundBurkesShade at April 28, 2019 09:12 PM (gSgAd)

242 This house is kinda expanded with Mrs. E on the road, but she will be back home next week. Well, moronosphere, 0400 will be kinda early here in ETEX. I got dog and cat(s) fed tonight, and have my work snack ready to go for tomorrow. Got to get some z's logged. See y'all tomorrow.

Posted by: Eromero at April 28, 2019 09:13 PM (qBNEP)

243 The oldest surplus ammo I've used is Greek HXP (as I recall) from the 50's and it all behaved like it was new.

On deteriorating powder:
http://forums.thecmp.org/showpost.php?p=1253242&postcount=6

Posted by: Grey Fox at April 28, 2019 09:15 PM (bZ7mE)

244 Thanks Rhomboid!

Posted by: LASue at April 28, 2019 09:15 PM (XROPS)

245 Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:12 PM (QDnY+)
-------
Thanks rhomboid. Ammoseek was the other search engine I was trying to remember when I linked gunbot.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:15 PM (zncPR)

246 Just want to express my thanks to Weasel, Bluebell, Ben Had, and Jewells for contributing door prizes for our Morondezvous last night. It was very sweet of you to be thinking of your fellow Morons in Colorado!

Posted by: Emmie at April 28, 2019 09:16 PM (4HMW8)

247 EB'sShade - not sure about "best", but some vendors who've sold them for years, and recently had some after a long dry spell, are:

Classic Firearms (NC)
AIM Surplus (OH)
J and G Sales (AZ)

I've bought from all of them, as well as private sales, locally.

You want one to blast away, or for collecting purposes?

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:17 PM (QDnY+)

248 'Night Eromero!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:17 PM (MVjcR)

249 If y'all are seriously interested in some large volumes of free lead, I can likely arrange it.

You'll have to bring chainsaws and flatbed trailers though.

The work is in cutting up the sailboats for salvage, and in exchange, we'd get to keep the lead keel(s).

You'll want a DuPont Tyvek suit, gloves and boots taped at the seams, goggles and respirator.

Not fun in the Texas sun, but that airborne fiberglass and resin dust sure ain't nothin' to mess with!

Fun fact. Average 30 ft. fin keel sloop will deliver three to four thousand pounds of lead to the breaker.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at April 28, 2019 09:17 PM (QzJWU)

250 231 NZFrank. TX is the MOME of all MoMe's How do I explain that everybody wants to talk to you.
Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 09:04 PM (gHd7j)

Sheeeet. No bugger in TX can understand me. We talk real fast and flat. And use words that the rest of the world stopped using 100 years ago.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 09:18 PM (bgJ0E)

251 246 Just want to express my thanks to Weasel, Bluebell, Ben Had, and Jewells for contributing door prizes for our Morondezvous last night. It was very sweet of you to be thinking of your fellow Morons in Colorado!
Posted by: Emmie at April 28, 2019 09:16 PM (4HMW

------
You are very welcome, Emmie! Happy to do it.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:18 PM (MVjcR)

252 Emmie- Sorry I missed you last night, but the memorial was nice. Hope all the morons had fun!

Posted by: Infidel at April 28, 2019 09:19 PM (lwX7s)

253 A conversation came up on another forum some time ago about if you had to cut your shooting expenses to the bone. My response was a small caliber, 32 or 36, flintlock. Scrounging lead to cast, buying black powder in bulk, using rags and such for shooting and cleaning patches, finding affordable flints, etc. They use tiny amounts of powder and can even be used as a matchlock if the fints run out.

The alternative was a 20 ga. smoothbore flintlock. It was fun doing all the speculating.

Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 09:20 PM (bmdz3)

254 Ooooo-Kay Lotta info on this and more in the comments. Thank You, Weasel for the info. Gonna take some ruminating. For Bob, the bilderberger and others. Pixie hated my last use of tinyurl, so we'll see how this works. I built the lower for my 6.5 Grendel and bought the complete upper from Sanders. It's called the beast and I'm gonna try tinyurl one more time https://tinyurl.com/65grendelbuild-upper based on effort and cost, this was the best way to go! The owner is very helpful to a new builder.

More in a bit, McGyver, over (pic in nic)

Posted by: McGyver at April 28, 2019 09:20 PM (gMngZ)

255 Grey Fox, thanks for that link. Not sure if I've read it before, might have. A commenter by name of HangFire, on The High Road, did some very interesting/edumucational posts on ammo and powder aging questions, a ways back, probably searchable there.

Weasel I'm shooting up the last 200 or so rounds of HXP, thereafter shooting only my own reloads (using HXP brass, duh) in the M1s. With a "strategic reserve" of 500 PPU Garand rounds in the ammo can, tucked away ....

HXP's steel core, so an issue at the one action rifle match I shoot. Might as well shoot it up.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:20 PM (QDnY+)

256 Infidel, we all missed you at the Morondezvous, but we understand about you not being there.

I hope we can come out your way and pay a visit some time.

Posted by: Emmie at April 28, 2019 09:22 PM (4HMW8)

257 Emmie, so glad you are all doing this. My thank you' s to all of the CO Horde,

Posted by: Ben Had at April 28, 2019 09:22 PM (gHd7j)

258 247. Seems like an interesting weapon, and would like to have one for shooting. Not much of a collector. Thanks for the info.

Posted by: EdmundBurkesShade at April 28, 2019 09:22 PM (gSgAd)

259 *looks at bottom picture*

Not a terribly stable shooting platform. Which means it's perfect for the likes of Jean Francois Cary and Beta Beano.

Posted by: Anna Puma at April 28, 2019 09:22 PM (rJJWe)

260 Sheeeet. No bugger in TX can understand me. We talk real fast and flat. And use words that the rest of the world stopped using 100 years ago.
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at April 28, 2019 09:18 PM (bgJ0E)

Make sure someone has a translation app.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 28, 2019 09:23 PM (NWiLs)

261 I love the weekly Gun Threads, it's one of the high points to my week!

Finally shot my first squib this weekend. Thankfully, the next rounds wouldn't fully chamber, so the slide being so far back was a lovely visual queue. Remember kids, measure early, measure often!

Along with JTB *way* up the thread, I'm a fan of Midway USA. On the topic of hazmat, I've had Midsouth Shooters quote me the $27 hazmat fee, but the exact same order from Midway was only $11 in hazmat. Not sure if I got out like a bandit, but I'll take what I can get. If you have a local shop, though, go with them. Might cost you a couple dollars more per whatever you're buying, but you'll be supporting your local small business owner, and you'll either still break even, or save a couple of bucks.

Posted by: Ninjafluff at April 28, 2019 09:24 PM (yBZ7A)

262 JTB, and Weasel, I enjoy the "scrounging" part of reloading. Many little tricks to use/re-use free items and materials to cut costs (if even by a little). One of my favorites is used dryer sheets in the tumbler, to absorb residue/dirt when you're cleaning brass cases. The High Road has a long-running thread on this, called something like "Things I have learned in reloading", where people share their little tricks. Part of the fun.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:24 PM (QDnY+)

263 A conversation came up on another forum some time ago about if you had to cut your shooting expenses to the bone. My response was a small caliber, 32 or 36, flintlock. Scrounging lead to cast, buying black powder in bulk, using rags and such for shooting and cleaning patches, finding affordable flints, etc. They use tiny amounts of powder and can even be used as a matchlock if the fints run out.
Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 09:20 PM (bmdz3)

I recall reading somewhere (don't recall where) that many rifles started out as .32 or .36 for just that reason and were gradually re-bored over decades of use up to .40 or .45 as the rifling eroded.

Posted by: hogmartin invites you to the Summer MIMoMe (link: nick) at April 28, 2019 09:25 PM (t+qrx)

264 Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:20 PM (QDnY+)
-------
I lucked into about 500 match headstamped .30-06 cases a few years ago that I'm saving for a special occasion! I have a M1917 that was custom chambered by the CMP shop that I want to work up a precision load for.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:25 PM (MVjcR)

265 I didn`t buy so much as a box of ammo this week...horrible week!

Posted by: Tentotwo at April 28, 2019 09:25 PM (yhf6w)

266 Posted by: Ninjafluff at April 28, 2019 09:24 PM (yBZ7A)
-----
Thank you Ninjafluff. Glad to have to here!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:27 PM (MVjcR)

267 NZFrank, do you talk like Bret and Jermaine? Inner City pressure!

Posted by: Pod Hamp at April 28, 2019 09:28 PM (RBFmA)

268 ...A conversation came up on another forum some time ago about if you had to cut your shooting expenses to the bone. My response was a small caliber, 32 or 36, flintlock. Scrounging lead to cast, buying black powder in bulk, using rags and such for shooting and cleaning patches, finding affordable flints, etc. They use tiny amounts of powder and can even be used as a matchlock if the fints run out.

The alternative was a 20 ga. smoothbore flintlock. It was fun doing all the speculating.

Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 09:20 PM (bmdz3)

Y'know, a "modern muzzleloader", in .32, with an interchangeable primer-pocket would be a gem.

Got 209 primers? (bit overpowered for .32, I'd think?), use "that" screw-in pocket. Got Small Pistol primers? Swap out the pocket.

Give it a good quality small optic in Q.D. mounts on a rail, with precision irons installed to view over the bare-rail.

Not only a fine squirrel rifle, but would be deadly on the brain-pan of a white-tailed deer at 50 yards or less.

Only dilemma being to spec the twist for conical or ball rounds?

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at April 28, 2019 09:28 PM (QzJWU)

269 McGyver, thanks for the link to the complete upper. I was planning to build my own but this looks pretty darn close to what I wanted feature-wise.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at April 28, 2019 09:29 PM (qc+VF)

270 Only dilemma being to spec the twist for conical or ball rounds?

Huh huh. "Ball." Huh huh huh.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 28, 2019 09:29 PM (NWiLs)

271 Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:24 PM (QDnY+)
------
The dryer sheet trick really works, doesn't it!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:30 PM (MVjcR)

272 EBsShade, they're great/cheap shooters. Expect a dark bore (doesn't matter), and front sight post heights will vary. You can replace them, "fix" them by adding shrink tubing, or just adjust your sight picture (mostly what I do). Generally they're zeroed, windwage-wise (at 100-150 yds), but if not there's a nice little aluminum sight-mover tool you can get - or (imagine thick Russian accent here) adopt traditional Soviet methods and use a punch and a sledge to "adjust" the windage (sight's in a dove-tail).

For ammo, SGAmmo once again has spam cans of com-bloc surplus after a long dry spell, generally they're cheapest when shipping is included ($180/440 rounds delivered, last I checked).

Oh - and if you are, don't fuss about "corrosive" ammo. It's just the compounds in primers leave hydrophilic residue. So if you're in AZ or SoCal or NV, very small deal. If in a humid climate, all it means is don't wait too long before flushing boiled water down the bore, then clean normally. That's it.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:31 PM (QDnY+)

273 I was watching PDT last night and it hit me. PDT is impersonating Rodney Dangerfield.

Posted by: JAS at April 28, 2019 09:31 PM (KOCKb)

274 Last week, a couple of us -- McGyver and one other -- were talking about 6.5 Grendel AR builds. I wanted to ask a few other questions.

I found a page for the Sanders Armory side-charging upper which appears to be out of stock at the moment, assuming they still sell them. It comes with a .223 bolt. Did you just buy a 6.5 Gr II bolt and swap them? Which bolt?

Which barrel did you use? I would like something at least 20" and 22 or even 24 would be nice.

Does the Grendel use a standard .223 rifle buffer?

Anything else I should know?

Only difference is barrel and bolt. Grendel bolt will fit in 5.56 bolt carrier using same cam pin and firing pin. Same buffer. You can stick a Grendel complete upper on a regular AR lower. Mags are different too. 25 rounds instead of 30 and uses a different follower. The mags are not cheap either.

Posted by: Agitator at April 28, 2019 09:31 PM (m9DnX)

275 When it says 'superfine' does it mean very small granules or of exceptional quality?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at April 28, 2019 09:32 PM (ycWCI)

276 Hey NZFrank, if you came to Utah you could do what I did the last two days. Yesterday shot paper at a 100 and steel out to 800 and today I went skiing.

Posted by: ck at April 28, 2019 09:32 PM (GXRoa)

277 Weasel, I hate you (for your 30-06 match brass). Of course I still don't have a bolt to reload for, but some day hope to get a Springfield. Regret passing on a local sale, a guy had 500 new LC cases for a nice price.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:33 PM (QDnY+)

278 Only difference is barrel and bolt. Grendel bolt will fit in 5.56 bolt carrier using same cam pin and firing pin. Same buffer. You can stick a Grendel complete upper on a regular AR lower. Mags are different too. 25 rounds instead of 30 and uses a different follower. The mags are not cheap either.

Posted by: Agitator at April 28, 2019 09:31 PM (m9DnX)
--------------------------
No kidding, those mags aren't cheap.

*Technically* you can use any ol' 556 mag, but since the majority of them are polymer, they start to expand after you get them 30% full, and at any amount, they don't feed very well. Steel mags are best, and in my experience, the E-Lander mags are the best for mine.

Posted by: Ninjafluff at April 28, 2019 09:35 PM (yBZ7A)

279 NZFrank I've generally got a good ear and am a language geek of sorts, so kiwi didn't stump me too badly when I was there, but I noticed, as we moved further to the deep south of the South Island, the Scottish accent influence became noticeable, and the overall accent thicker.

However there were some issues. You folks drive on the wrong side of the road, and everybody's named Ian.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:35 PM (QDnY+)

280 275 When it says 'superfine' does it mean very small granules or of exceptional quality?
Posted by: Aetius451AD at April 28, 2019 09:32 PM (ycWCI)
---------
I think it's the size of the particles. The old powder mills looked a lot like grist mills, so I suspect a lot of the same terminology was used. The number of "F's" denoted how finely it was ground.
Am I close, JTB?

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:36 PM (MVjcR)

281
NZFrank,
Her Majesty is an NZ native and we live in TX. Everyone understands her. They better.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 28, 2019 09:36 PM (X3lUd)

282 He doesn't say "Your Majesty" He says "King!"

Posted by: JAS at April 28, 2019 09:36 PM (KOCKb)

283 262 ... "The High Road has a long-running thread on this, called something like "Things I have learned in reloading", where people share their little tricks. Part of the fun."

rhomboid, Absolutely right. The handloading and reloading section has the Reloading Library of Wisdom. I've gotten lost in it more than once.

When I started reloading, scrounging brass and wheel weights made a financial difference. Now it's part of a game. I know some shooters who can afford $10,000 guns but are still thrilled when they find range brass in good condition. We all laugh at the reaction because we all understand it.

Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 09:37 PM (bmdz3)

284 Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:33 PM (QDnY+)
------
Then I probably shouldn't tell you it's unfired and I paid $5 for the lot!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:37 PM (MVjcR)

285 When it says 'superfine' does it mean very small granules or of exceptional quality?
Posted by: Aetius451AD at April 28, 2019 09:32 PM (ycWCI)

In the case of black powder, it means the size of the granules.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 28, 2019 09:39 PM (hZlbC)

286 Was thinking my 2nd AR build would be 6.5 Grendel (can't recall why I was thinking that, other than to have a different caliber, and it would be a longer-barreled rifle for longer range). Of course my 1st AR build hasn't come close to happening yet, so.

But I do have reloading dies (5.56), a vice block, two receivers, and 2 cases of ammo! Oh - and iron sights I got recently for a good price. Not in a rush, apparently .....

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:39 PM (QDnY+)

287 I use nothing but super freak in my loads.

Posted by: Rick James at April 28, 2019 09:39 PM (4knXT)

288

Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg is stepping up his outreach to African Americans by meeting with a leading civil rights activist, the Rev. Al Sharpton.

The mayor of South Bend, Indiana, plans to have lunch Monday with the founder of the National Action Network at the famed Sylvia's Restaurant in Harlem.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 28, 2019 09:40 PM (aKsyK)

289 We all laugh at the reaction because we all understand it.
Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 09:37 PM (bmdz3)
------
Now I'm laughing! So true!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:40 PM (MVjcR)

290 The mayor of South Bend, Indiana, plans to have lunch Monday with the founder of the National Action Network at the famed Sylvia's Restaurant in Harlem.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 28, 2019 09:40 PM (aKsyK)

---------

So the Cracker Barrel was right out then.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 28, 2019 09:41 PM (4knXT)

291
I was watching PDT last night and it hit me. PDT is impersonating Rodney Dangerfield.
Posted by: JAS

But he never says "tough crowd, tough crowd!"

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 28, 2019 09:43 PM (aKsyK)

292 Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 28, 2019 09:40 PM (aKsyK)
-----
Sylvia's is a real place? I love their canned stuff!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:43 PM (MVjcR)

293 Here is brilliant Twitter thread about Sessions, Trump, conflicts of interest in Federal Investigations, and Cover Stories:

https://tinyurl.com/Sessions-Recusal-Makes-Sense

Posted by: Sharkman at April 28, 2019 09:44 PM (smc0A)

294 Did you know that Pete Buttplug is gay? Because he insists you know that.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 28, 2019 09:44 PM (4knXT)

295 I recall reading somewhere (don't recall where) that many rifles started out as .32 or .36 for just that reason and were gradually re-bored over decades of use up to .40 or .45 as the rifling eroded.

That is a complicated and somewhat contentious question.

Rifles did grow in caliber over their active life, but those figures are probably a bit excessive. Surviving rifles from around the Revolution average out to about .55 today, I believe, ranging from about .42 for one rifle up to .62 or so for quite a number. Some were undoubtedly originally made fairly large, but the written sources from the period suggest that most rifles were made in the .45-.50 range as new. I tend to think that the majority of the .50+ plus that survive today were originally a bit under .50, based on period sources and the observation that the majority of the rifles that came out of English or German collections (captured during the Revolutionary war and kept as trophies instead of being used until they wore out) are, with a couple of notable exceptions, in the .45-.52 range one would expect from period accounts. Not everyone agrees, though.

After the Revolution, particularly after 1800 in the East, calibers shrank a bit after the big game was mostly gone. You see a lot of squirrel sizes (sub-.40 caliber) in the Late flint and percussion periods (1820s on). Out west, with grizzly bears, buffalo, and high winds, .50 and up stay common.

19th century hunters do seem to have liked rather smaller calibers than we do today, a preference that extends into the smokeless powder era. A lot of the early smokeless cartridges that were very popular seem pretty anemic by modern standards (.32-20?) I think they tended to be more confident of their marksmanship and shot placement and less concerned about a quick kill.

Posted by: Grey Fox at April 28, 2019 09:44 PM (bZ7mE)

296 273 I was watching PDT last night and it hit me. PDT is impersonating Rodney Dangerfield.
Posted by: JAS at April 28, 2019 09:31 PM (KOCKb)
-------
I love watching him at a rally.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:44 PM (MVjcR)

297 Weasel - $5???!!!

You're like one of my RO buddies at the range. He regularly has people *give* him guns, or sell them at fire-sale prices. It's ridiculous. The cost basis of his growing collection must be comically low.

JTB - exactly! The scrounging game is part of the fun. Actually that applies to (my version of) Mosin shooting as well. Garage, red-neck gunsmithing is perfectly suitable for Mosins. The shrink tube to "fix" the front sight post is a classic (but I went one better, found coffee stirrers that fit just right, and used those). And a BLO-soaked piece of felt wrapped around the barrel to stabilize it (actually a war-time field method in the Red Army, called a "salka").

Only thing with Mosins - don't prop them up against a workbench or something. If they fall .... they might damage the table, or your floor.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:45 PM (QDnY+)

298 294 Did you know that Pete Buttplug is gay? Because he insists you know that.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 28, 2019 09:44 PM (4knXT)

Also, Jesus wants him to be gay.

Posted by: Emmie at April 28, 2019 09:45 PM (4HMW8)

299 Oh, and before the thread succumbs to the ONT.

Dream gun for versatility 'tween smokeless and black powder?

I wants a Chiappa mini-Sharps, in .38-55.

Pretty much .357 Mag carbine ballistics, either way. Historically, that chambering has accounted for a LOT of deer, and was THE middleweight cartridge, until the .30-30 arrived on the scene.

I know the .45-70 is common in both powders, too.

Either would be a good one to have in the rack, just because.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at April 28, 2019 09:45 PM (QzJWU)

300 280 ... "I think it's the size of the particles. The old powder mills looked a lot like grist mills, so I suspect a lot of the same terminology was used. The number of "F's" denoted how finely it was ground.
Am I close, JTB?"

Yep. The F denotes granule size. As a rule, the larger the caliber, the smaller number of Fs are preferred. 4F is normally a priming powder for flitlocks although 2F and 3F will do the job. The very fine 4F ignites a bit easier. Calibers up to 45 or 50 usually use 3F granulation. After 50 caliber, 2F is common. 1F powder might be used in 12 gauge or larger shotguns, and cannons.

BTW, I believe the 'G' in FFFG powder stands for graphite coating which keeps the powder from clumping if the weather is humid. It works.

Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 09:45 PM (bmdz3)

301 ButtPlug 2020 -- A guy you can *really* get behind!

Posted by: campaign slogans r us at April 28, 2019 09:46 PM (gP/Z3)

302 Sometimes hanging is just too good for a man.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 09:47 PM (xcd1u)

303 Fellow morons lend me your ears....

I moved the lawn today. I don't have a trimmer cuz, fuck it I don't really care. I have a small patch of grass around some shrubs that I can't quite get with mower and the grass is a little tall around the shrubs. Meh, whatevs.

Anyway, my neighbor was moving his lawn as well and after I was done, he went and trimmed that little area. My wife was all "aww how sweet". I was all " what the fuck is that asshole doing trimming my shit"?

My wife said I was too negative and need to see the world in a more positive light. My attitude is fuck all y'all, get the fuck off my lawn...literally!

Who's right?

Posted by: Lurking Lurker at April 28, 2019 09:47 PM (FiUMj)

304 Mayor Pete -- he's got your back (side)!

Posted by: campaign slogans r us at April 28, 2019 09:47 PM (gP/Z3)

305 Want to thank Grey Fox and others for putting us so much knowledge of diverse kinds here on the gub thread. Several commenters today bringing it.

Was wondering - should we include a standard explanation of the "gub" thing for newbies or those unfamiliar with Woody Allen's first movie?

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:49 PM (QDnY+)

306 Before the ONT comes along I want to thank you all for a great evening. You all really make this fun and I appreciate it!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:49 PM (MVjcR)

307 295 I recall reading somewhere (don't recall where) that many rifles started out as .32 or .36 for just that reason and were gradually re-bored over decades of use up to .40 or .45 as the rifling eroded.

--------

FUN FACT: German monster artillery like the Big Bertha used artillery rounds that were graduated upwards in diameter because each round fired actually increased the barrel diameter. If you fired them in the wrong order, then woe betide unto you.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 28, 2019 09:49 PM (4knXT)

308 At least 7 shot 1 killed in Baltimore after black suspect fires into crowd.

For some reason it's not trending on twitter.

Posted by: Ha at April 28, 2019 09:49 PM (MAstk)

309 298 294 Did you know that Pete Buttplug is gay? Because he insists you know that.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 28, 2019 09:44 PM (4knXT)

Also, Jesus wants him to be gay.
Posted by: Emmie at April 28, 2019 09:45 PM (4HMW

-----
Now I'm LOL'ing!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:50 PM (MVjcR)

310 Who's right?

Posted by: Lurking Lurker at April 28, 2019 09:47 PM (FiUMj)

If you are getting some, she is. If not, dude needs to mind his business.

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at April 28, 2019 09:50 PM (t6MX/)

311 Jim, glad you are in the thread. I'm looking forward to meeting you in August!

Posted by: Emmie at April 28, 2019 09:50 PM (4HMW8)

312 308 At least 7 shot 1 killed in Baltimore after black suspect fires into crowd.

For some reason it's not trending on twitter.
Posted by: Ha at April 28, 2019 09:49 PM (MAstk)

___

It's a tech glitch I'm sure, and has nothing to do with politics. Just like the other 1000 previous non-politcal "glitches" on Twitter and Facebook.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker at April 28, 2019 09:50 PM (FiUMj)

313 Dream gun for versatility 'tween smokeless and black powder?

I wants a Chiappa mini-Sharps, in .38-55.

Pretty much .357 Mag carbine ballistics, either way. Historically, that chambering has accounted for a LOT of deer, and was THE middleweight cartridge, until the .30-30 arrived on the scene.

I know the .45-70 is common in both powders, too.

Either would be a good one to have in the rack, just because.

I'd like a Winchester lever in .44-40 or .45 Colt to fill that niche. I like the looks of the '66 model better than the '73, but I'm not sure how durable the brass receiver would be long term.

Posted by: Grey Fox at April 28, 2019 09:51 PM (bZ7mE)

314 Just watched the movie scene on UToob. It's very good. Forget about the "abt natural" part of the gag.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:51 PM (QDnY+)

315 Who's right?

Posted by: Lurking Lurker at April 28, 2019 09:47 PM (FiUMj)
**************

I carry a shovel anytime I'm in the backyard because my neighbors (the one's in witness protection) have a pit that they can't manage.

I figure after the pit it will be the husband.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 09:52 PM (xcd1u)

316 Dream gun for versatility 'tween smokeless and black powder?

.45 colt Blackhawk, 45-70 1895.

Have them both.

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at April 28, 2019 09:53 PM (t6MX/)

317 Earnest, who was reportedly on the Dean's List at Cal State San Marcos, apparently posted an "open letter" online shortly before the shooting, taking credit for both the Poway synagogue shooting and a suspected arson fire on March 24 at the Islamic Center of Escondido. The letter makes multiple anti-Semitic references and racist comments.

San Diego County Sheriff William Gore said authorities were working to verify the authenticity of the letter. Investigators couldn't confirm whether the alleged shooter is connected to any white supremacist groups. But the sheriff said Earnest has no prior arrests.

White supremacists just LOVE writing 'Open Letters'. And making the Dean's List.
C'mon mnw , you little coward cocksucker.

Explain to me how this racist shithead represents "White Power" on a larger scale.
Dumbass.

Posted by: mikeyG - Burn a Tire For Earth Day at April 28, 2019 09:53 PM (LL1Be)

318 One word: railgun.

Or maybe it's two words.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 28, 2019 09:53 PM (4knXT)

319 If your interested int the border dust up don't forget today's Sunday Mornings with Maria Bartiromo.

And thank you Weasel for another pleasant and interesting thread.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 09:54 PM (xcd1u)

320 ...Jim, glad you are in the thread. I'm looking forward to meeting you in August!

Posted by: Emmie at April 28, 2019 09:50 PM (4HMW

Mo Meet in August, or ?

This is what happens when I've made repeated trips to FL to handle all the estate stuff, and come back to work right away and have two vehicles out of the fleet break down and ruin not only my today, but my Monday, to be sure.

I forget what's on for August.

But will happily accept your reminder!

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at April 28, 2019 09:54 PM (QzJWU)

321 Grey Fox, I just picked up an 1866 (Uberti) in 45C last month. Sent Weasel a picture recently.

I plan on sticking to my usual mild loads, obviously "standard" or below (14K PSI) for it. Smokeless. If you do blackpowder, would think there'd be minimal wear/tear on things. And it's the action (toggle) that would wear, not the receiver itself, right?

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:54 PM (QDnY+)

322 Weasel,

Thanks so much for another fun and educational gun thread. I look forward to it every week.

Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 09:55 PM (bmdz3)

323 Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 09:54 PM (xcd1u)
-----
Thanks Braenyard!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:55 PM (MVjcR)

324 I was on the Dean's list. He said, Bran, one more time, just one more time.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 09:56 PM (xcd1u)

325 Amazing. The Left screams about the "Rise of White Power".

And with the assistance of the media and cockbites like 'mnw' , one racist dude is suddenly multiplied into "Teh Rise of White Gnashionalism" .

Gimme a break.

Posted by: mikeyG - Burn a Tire For Earth Day at April 28, 2019 09:56 PM (LL1Be)

326
Thanks so much for another fun and educational gun thread. I look forward to it every week.
Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 09:55 PM (bmdz3)
-----
Thank you and thanks for being here each week, JTB!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:56 PM (MVjcR)

327 Yeah thanks again Weasel.

The gub thread is a haven of craziness in a world of insanity.

Or something like that.

(movie scene/origin of "gub": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyvJjyCOyS0)

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:58 PM (QDnY+)

328 I plan on sticking to my usual mild loads, obviously "standard" or below (14K PSI) for it. Smokeless. If you do blackpowder, would think there'd be minimal wear/tear on things. And it's the action (toggle) that would wear, not the receiver itself, right?

I'm thinking about the tendency of brass-frame revolvers to "shoot loose" over time as the frame stretches. They aren't as durable as steel frames, I believe. I don't know if the '66 would have the same issue or not.

I'm a long way from being able to buy one right now, so I guess I have plenty of time to do my research.

Posted by: Grey Fox at April 28, 2019 09:58 PM (bZ7mE)

329 Was thinking my 2nd AR build would be 6.5 Grendel (can't recall why I was thinking that, other than to have a different caliber, and it would be a longer-barreled rifle for longer range). Of course my 1st AR build hasn't come close to happening yet, so.

But I do have reloading dies (5.56), a vice block, two receivers, and 2 cases of ammo! Oh - and iron sights I got recently for a good price. Not in a rush, apparently .

Weak link, to me anyway, in the 6.5 Grendel, is how much of the bolt face has to be machined to accomodate the larger case head. It looks really thin, but I've never had any problems. Always check after a session when field stripped.

Posted by: Agitator at April 28, 2019 09:59 PM (m9DnX)

330 I like Glock because the same caliber mags all fit the smaller-sized but same caliber guns.

(Of course the tiny Glock 27 mags won't fit the 23 , I mean 'cmon...)

Posted by: mikeyG - Burn a Tire For Earth Day at April 28, 2019 09:59 PM (LL1Be)

331 Jim, I checked with Mr. Bassman about your kind hospitality regarding cigars. He doesn't smoke, but our drummer does. The drummer is a very personable fellow and you would likely enjoy chatting with him.

I have not cultivated any expectations of you, just so you know. Except Mr. Bassman would be pleased to meet you.

Posted by: Emmie at April 28, 2019 09:59 PM (4HMW8)

332 Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 09:58 PM (QDnY+)
------
Thanks, rhomboid, but it's really you all that make it fun to hang out here!

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 09:59 PM (MVjcR)

333 303
My wife said I was too negative and need to see the world in a more positive light. My attitude is fuck all y'all, get the fuck off my lawn...literally!
Posted by: Lurking Lurker at April 28, 2019 09:47 PM (FiUMj)

My neighbor can mow my whole lawn if he wants to. I won't stand in his way. So far, he hasn't offered, though.

Posted by: rickl at April 28, 2019 10:00 PM (sdi6R)

334 For part of some future thread, perhaps. Loading black powder cartridges. It's fun, a bit different, and has its own requirements. Plus it lets you play cowboy, Texas Ranger, and/or buffalo hunter (an ethical one). Pop Tarts are optional.

Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 10:01 PM (bmdz3)

335 ONT is up.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at April 28, 2019 10:01 PM (UUvL0)

336 Jim, it's a Flash Cadillac concert at the Surf Ballroom in Clear Lake IA for their 50th anniversary.

Posted by: Emmie at April 28, 2019 10:02 PM (4HMW8)

337 Ms. Emmie, I'd love to meet all of y'all, and I'll happily take your drummer to one of the best small cigar factories and lounges in the Continental USA.

Keep me posted, ma'am!

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at April 28, 2019 10:02 PM (QzJWU)

338 OK! That's a wrap. Thanks everyone and goodnight. Have a good week and hope to see you next Sunday.

Posted by: Weasel at April 28, 2019 10:02 PM (MVjcR)

339 My wife said I was too negative and need to see the world in a more positive light.

Tell her that you read Psychology Today or Cosmo or some shit, and they have traced the problem to wives who are insufficiently sexually active with their husbands.

Posted by: mikeyG - Burn a Tire For Earth Day at April 28, 2019 10:02 PM (LL1Be)

340 Posted by: mikeyG - Burn a Tire For Earth Day at April 28, 2019 10:02 PM (LL1Be)

mikeyG - for the thread winner of the afternoon.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 10:06 PM (xcd1u)

341

Brass WILL stretch over time, regardless of the chambering.

I have a .36 Navy brass frame I shot loose. The indication here is the cylinder wedge won't snug up.

The gun's now a mantel piece--pretty, with it's rosewood grips and bright brass, people remark on it often.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 28, 2019 10:12 PM (KATBx)

342 Put a Regulator clock to the left of it and the Flag to the right.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 10:14 PM (xcd1u)

343 > have you been to the range?

Well, I had to test my Brand New M&P15 II Sport, right?

Hey, it works. Annoyed that I wasn't able to attach my bipod but the adapter will show up tomorrow and I'll see what's what.

Posted by: Arthur G Kimes at April 28, 2019 10:38 PM (ZhToC)

344 Just spent the *whole weekend* at the range! How many of you have been to a Project Appleseed event? Though I did a bit of shooting, I was mostly there to help the instructors, since they had a high student-to-instructor ratio and a few extra hands were welcome. (Also I make a good demo model for the seated and kneeling positions, and for demonstrating safe transitions from standing to seated or prone.)

New shooters will find some important fundamentals, experienced shooters almost always pick up some useful tidbit, and everybody gets a healthy dose of respect for those who fought for the liberty we enjoy today. (Or am I preaching to the choir, on this forum?)

Posted by: Pat* at April 28, 2019 10:57 PM (2pX/F)

345 I chose to watch the Avengers instead of the gun thread.

I chose...poorly.

Movie was dull.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at April 28, 2019 11:21 PM (xJa6I)

346 I see that is elected Kamela Harris would use a Excutive Order t o ban guns and SWalwell will nuke us if we dont surrender our guns more reasons these two should not be allowed to live in America anymore these Dirty Democrats belong in the Gobi Desert

Posted by: Tamaa the Drongo Bird at April 29, 2019 05:23 PM (wGqjj)

347 Never take the advice of "experts" when your own experience contradicts them. Only one carry gun? That limits you to the smallest of pocket pistols that you can carry in +80 degree weather and that is what you will you all year round. I don't think so. I'm not carrying a .380 in black bear country.

Posted by: FlimFlammed at April 29, 2019 10:11 PM (xpKpV)

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