Gun Thread: Forget All That Extra Cautious Stuff From Last Week [Weasel]

You want gun controversy? You can't handle gun controversy!!

Springfield M1903

Last week we talked about blowed-up guns, so let's talk about them again this week!

One of the all-time greatest topics for internet forum debate involves the question of the '03 Springfield and 'low number' receivers.

Introduced in 1903, the United States Rifle, Caliber .30-06, Model 1903 was the standard U.S. infantry rifle until the M1 Garand came along in 1936. The development and use of the '03 Springfield is extremely interesting, and will someday be the topic of a Gun Thread because I really love the rifle. For today, however, we're going to talk a little bit about metallurgy and wartime production. 'Kay?

The U.S. entered WWI with insufficient rifles to arm the troops so production had to be increased and that meant adding shifts at the arsenals. At the time, the heat treatment of the receiver steel was controlled thru visual inspection by armory workers. When the steel glowed a certain color it was deemed to have reached the proper temperature, an obviously subjective procedure. It was later determined the actual temperature of steel produced in this manner might vary by several hundred degrees, depending on whether it was a day or night shift, or a clear vs. cloudy day, and resulted in potentially over-cooked and brittle steel. A relatively small number of the receivers failed during use and injured soldiers which prompted an investigation.

Compounding the problem was, by design, the head of the .30-06 cartridge is unsupported by the chamber for about 1/8th inch. Some receiver failure incidents were suspected to have been caused by defective cartridge head brass and even others attributed to the use of incorrect ammunition altogether. The Army Officer leading the investigation, Julian hostaer, incorporated the findings into the book bearing his name, hostaer's Notebook, which is highly recommended (see links below). As described by hostaer, the investigation and testing continued into the 1920's when a sample of 26 low number receivers were subjected to twice the rated pressure without failure. So much for my brilliant commentary last week regarding double charges. [Note: Not really, DO NOT double your powder charges!].

Whatever the cause, about a dozen soldiers received serious injuries resulting from receiver failures. The manufacturing process was improved in February 1918 at Springfield Armory around S/N: 800000, and at Rock Island Arsenal at S/N: 285507 with the installation of pyrometers in the forges. But what to do with approximately 1 million 'suspect' receivers then in use? The Army decided to leave them in regular service and only retire them as they came through the arsenal for repair, and the Marines decided to simply keep using them until someone handed them something else to shoot.

And the great Springfield low receiver serial number issue was born.

Low Numbered Receiver

Allow me to introduce you to numero 379145 made at the Springfield Armory in 1909. Let's see - 379145<800000, carry the 3, divide be 2... Holy Crap! It's a low number! Don't look at it!
Oh, the humanity!!!

Calm down. What you don't see in the picture above is the barrel date.

I found the barrel date! Wait, it says 1944!

Yep, that's right - November 1944. This dangerously frail receiver made in 1909 is matched to a barrel made 35 years later. What gives? Here's a rifle that was fired to the point of wearing out at least one barrel, and probably several barrels, before concluding its military service with a barrel dated 1944.

Do I shoot it? Of course I do. It was made in 1909, well before WWI and the increase in wartime production which many think contributed to the problem and the observant among you will note the rifle is in pretty much not blowed-up condition. The CMP and most of the rest of the world declare this rifle 'unsafe to shoot' based on the low number, but obviously they don't mean me. I suspect it may have been a USMC rifle given it was never removed from service, and if it's good enough for the Marines then it's good enough for yer ol' pal Weasel. I handload for it using carefully inspected surplus match brass, 150gr bullets, and IMR4895 staying on the lower end of the velocity curve - around 2650fps. The load for .30 cal military ammunition has fluctuated over the years, but in 1944 the new M2 Ball used a 152gr flat base bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2805fps.

Remember, these rifles weren't treated like some sort of biohazard 100 years ago, but rather continued to be used until they were worn out and then removed from service, or replaced by something else. That little nugget is usually ommitted from discussion when intrepid Internet Gun Forum Safety Officers take to their keyboards.

Am I recommending you shoot a low number receiver? No. I'm just telling you that I shoot mine, and the reasons I think it's OK for me to do so with my particular rifle.

So what do you think of the 'conventional' wisdom? All things considered do you agree with my reasoning or am I a dangerous lunatic and stupid, stupid person for shooting this rifle? Do any of you have low numbered receivers and shoot them too? Do you think I'm being unfair to internet gun forum community? Do you like gladiator movies?

Link-O-Rama
Weird Trick to Improve your Shooting AND Attract the Ladies!
CMP Article - Written by Lawyers! Scary!
Not So Scary Article Apparantly Written by a Normal Person
FREE! hostaer's Notebook Online
Amazon: Buy hostaer's Notebook

***Reloading Bench***

Doubles are for bourbon, not for powder charges.

***This New Old Gun ***

Brown Bess Replica

This week's Old Gun comes to us from Skip. What a thing of beauty and how very nicely and prominently displayed! I am jealous and now officially hate Skip, who tells us:

Brown Bess Short Land Pattern replica, it has a 42 inch smoothbore barrel with a 17 inch bayonet and is in .75 cal. It was issued to British army starting in 1769 and used throughout the American Revolution and Napoleonic war. Had it since around 1983.

Thanks Skip!!!!

***This Old Cookbook***

Greatest Cookbook Ever

OK you clowns - buy a copy of the cookbook. If you already have one for your own bad self, then give one as a gift this season. Remember; it's only pennies per day, all proceeds go to charity, and if you don't buy a copy then bluebell will be sad.

And you wouldn't like bluebell when she's sad.

Yes! I want to be a WeaselWarrior and prevent sadness in bluebell!!

*************

Please note the new and improved gmail account MoronGunThread for sending in stories and pictures. Again, that's morongunthread at gmail dot com. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, send it in and we'll give your puny curiosity consideration. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

Posted by: Open Blogger at 07:09 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Boom!

Posted by: Calm Mentor at November 25, 2018 07:07 PM (ffYR/)

2
Tremendous sales on optics at Europtic and Optic Planet for a few more hours ladies and germs... GET SOME!

I dropped mid 4 figures this weekend...

Posted by: In Vino Veritits at November 25, 2018 07:08 PM (UFLLM)

3 How does somebody as old as Jack Nicholson have such perfect teeth?

Posted by: ALH at November 25, 2018 07:09 PM (dczB+)

4 Been reading Last of the Mohicans, the book delves into the scarcity of gunpowder and lead to make bullets in upstate NY in 1757. In the movie everyone blazes away with complete abandon.

Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2018 07:10 PM (6VrXf)

5 When in Romaine do what the Romanians do.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 25, 2018 07:10 PM (aKsyK)

6 That is a dozen .723 balls I cast under the mounting block

Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2018 07:11 PM (6VrXf)

7 Boom 2

Posted by: Economic j o at November 25, 2018 07:11 PM (V/Ka3)

8 Thirst!

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 25, 2018 07:11 PM (xPNLF)

9 The "flaming bomb" stamp on the barrel ~~means~~does not mean your rifle ~~won't~~won't explode.

So if you have a low-receiver '03, just relax and worry about it.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 25, 2018 07:12 PM (t+qrx)

10 This is what I was issued in USN Boot Camp. Carried it everywhere for 2 months. Did exercises with it.

After a while it didn't weigh so much. No bolt tho. Heh.

Posted by: jakee308 at November 25, 2018 07:12 PM (INwZn)

11 How does somebody as old as Jack Nicholson have such perfect teeth?
Posted by: ALH at November 25, 2018 07:09 PM (dczB+)

----------------

Implants or veneers, probably.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at November 25, 2018 07:12 PM (ffYR/)

12 Read the content. Girthy!

Posted by: Duncanthrax at November 25, 2018 07:13 PM (DMUuz)

13 How does somebody as old as Jack Nicholson have such perfect teeth?
Posted by: ALH at November 25, 2018 07:09 PM (dczB+)

I know if I had his money the first thing I would do is get all my teeth fixed. Implants maybe.

Not cheap but worth every penny.

Posted by: jakee308 at November 25, 2018 07:14 PM (INwZn)

14 i had a low number Springfield...

i sent it to Jim SND for his birf day.

he's making a wild pig gun out of it.

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 25, 2018 07:14 PM (xPNLF)

15 I'd like to note that Weasel (PBUH) is still amongst us, despite last week's worries about a sudden onslaught of bluebell punctuation syndrome.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at November 25, 2018 07:15 PM (DMUuz)

16 14 i had a low number Springfield...

i sent it to Jim SND for his birf day.

he's making a wild pig gun out of it.
Posted by: redc1c4 at November 25, 2018 07:14 PM (xPNLF)
-------
Nice! It should do well in that application.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:15 PM (MVjcR)

17 There appear to be some attractive options currently available in the stripped lower markets.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at November 25, 2018 07:16 PM (DMUuz)

18
15 I'd like to note that Weasel (PBUH) is still amongst us, despite last week's worries about a sudden onslaught of bluebell punctuation syndrome.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at November 25, 2018 07:15 PM (DMUuz)
-----
Well in that regard, one cannot be too careful!

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:17 PM (MVjcR)

19 I have passed up decently priced low-numbered Springfields but everything you say makes perfect sense. I was not aware of how small the number of known faiures was. I will reconsider the next time one crosses my path.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at November 25, 2018 07:17 PM (qc+VF)

20 3 he's a American, and has unlimited money

Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2018 07:17 PM (6VrXf)

21 I ordered a Heritage Rough Rider .22/.22 magnum for my son's Christmas gift today. He's only 15 but he's quite the gun enthusiast and he's been playing a lot of Red Dead Redemption. I think he's going to love it.

Posted by: Guzalot at November 25, 2018 07:18 PM (schB/)

22 Went to the range this morning to exercise my Rossi 93 357/38. Put most of a box of 38 special handloaded copper clad hollow points with 3.7 gr of Clays. Fun times. Followed up with my vintage Mossberg 46B(a) shooting some Aguila 22LR standard velocity. A good time was had by all.

Posted by: JimK at November 25, 2018 07:18 PM (uAlm4)

23 I got your stripped lower right here!

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 25, 2018 07:18 PM (5aX2M)

24
g'early evenin', 'rons

Posted by: AltonJackson at November 25, 2018 07:19 PM (KCxzN)

25 19 I have passed up decently priced low-numbered Springfields but everything you say makes perfect sense. I was not aware of how small the number of known faiures was. I will reconsider the next time one crosses my path.
Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at November 25, 2018 07:17 PM (qc+VF)
------
There were a number that were not serious enough to cause serious injury. Overall I think the number was still remarkably low.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:19 PM (MVjcR)

26 That's a Rossi 92 btw.

Posted by: JimK at November 25, 2018 07:20 PM (uAlm4)

27 Hallo, AltonJackson.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 25, 2018 07:21 PM (t+qrx)

28 hey, hogmartin

Posted by: AltonJackson at November 25, 2018 07:22 PM (KCxzN)

29 I got your stripped lower right here!
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 25, 2018 07:18 PM

But is it an attractive one?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at November 25, 2018 07:23 PM (DMUuz)

30 Daughter made it home safely!! PTL!!

Posted by: Jewells45 at November 25, 2018 07:23 PM (dUJdY)

31 That is a dozen .723 balls I cast under the mounting block

A firearm and ammo stored together. You will give the left the vapors.

Posted by: Agitator at November 25, 2018 07:24 PM (atO6j)

32 How does somebody as old as Jack Nicholson have such perfect teeth?
---
That picture is from like 20 years ago

Posted by: Methos at November 25, 2018 07:25 PM (kOpft)

33 Gun talk?

Obviously a bunch of racists.

As soon as my Platinum Membership Card arrives I'll be filing a formal complaint.

Posted by: weirdflunky at November 25, 2018 07:25 PM (r5k3Z)

34 Heritage Rough Rider .22/.22 magnum"

A seriously fun to shoot pistol. Everyone should have one...

Posted by: Anon a mouse at November 25, 2018 07:25 PM (6qErC)

35 Is the 03 in the full length pic the same one? If so, is that USGI wood on it? And if so, how did you refinish it? It looks really nice.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at November 25, 2018 07:25 PM (qc+VF)

36
As soon as my Platinum Membership Card arrives I'll be filing a formal complaint.
Posted by: weirdflunky at November 25, 2018 07:25 PM (r5k3Z)
------
You should. These people are dangerous!

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:26 PM (MVjcR)

37 Anyone for a 1917 Enfield or Moison-Nagant that saw US service in the Great War?

Posted by: Anna Puma at November 25, 2018 07:26 PM (tjRMO)

38 Looking for a recommendation for a 3rd handgun. Started with a .22LR (Ruger Mark IV) and then a .380ACP (Bersa Thunder). Thinking about a .357/.38 Special (likely S&W 686+) or a 9MM. Doesn't need to be a CC weapon and am looking for something that will last.

Posted by: In Exile at November 25, 2018 07:26 PM (SDmIR)

39 Sig>Glock

Everybody knows this to be true.

That should do it.

Posted by: weirdflunky at November 25, 2018 07:27 PM (r5k3Z)

40
As soon as my Platinum Membership Card arrives I'll be filing a formal complaint.
Posted by: weirdflunky at November 25, 2018 07:25 PM (r5k3Z)

There's a membership card? Where do I register?

Posted by: ALH at November 25, 2018 07:27 PM (dczB+)

41 I got the parts in for another AR in 6.5 Grendel. This one will be a Christmas present for the oldest grandson. We will put it together on Christmas afternoon.

Posted by: Agitator at November 25, 2018 07:28 PM (atO6j)

42
Sig>Glock

Everybody knows this to be true.

That should do it.

Posted by: weirdflunky at November 25, 2018 07:27 PM

pffft

I heard that "Glock" is Austrian for "Hi-Point"

Posted by: AltonJackson at November 25, 2018 07:29 PM (KCxzN)

43 35 Is the 03 in the full length pic the same one? If so, is that USGI wood on it? And if so, how did you refinish it? It looks really nice.
Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at November 25, 2018 07:25 PM (qc+VF)
-----
Yep. Same rifle. It's been refinished at some point but the proof and inspectors marks are still there. It's a really nice rifle in great shape. I've had it on the 1000yd range and can actually hit a long range target with the iron sights, which amazed me.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:29 PM (MVjcR)

44 I heard that "Glock" is Austrian for "Hi-Point"
Posted by: AltonJackson at November 25, 2018 07:29 PM (KCxzN)

Screen, meet coffee

Posted by: In Exile at November 25, 2018 07:29 PM (SDmIR)

45 I've inherited an 03 with a Rock Island serial showing a 1904 manufacture. It is in a "short stock" with a 1918 barrel, and seems to shoot std 150 grain M2 ball with no problems. I don't really push it and shoot other stuff to feed my history fix.

Posted by: Panhandler at November 25, 2018 07:29 PM (ibCu/)

46 So, hypothetically speaking, if a low-number Springfield fell into my hands, and i wanted to shoot it, and did not want to blow my face off, could I proof-test it by loading a cartridge to, say, a 50% overload, clamp the rifle in a bench, and fire it by pulling on a long string, from behind cover?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 25, 2018 07:30 PM (fDU8w)

47 Wow, Weasel, what a munificent, glorious, and sprawling gub thread. Outstanding.

As a 1903 remains one of the few gunzzz on my wish list, this thread is particularly poignant, informative, and tormenting.

I think your reasoning is very sound on your receiver/barrel combo. Apart from fairly outlandish explanations - such as the receiver sat unused, until mated with a barrel in WWII - I don't see any problem with your theory.

And Skip, wow, beautiful piece there. Impressive.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 07:30 PM (QDnY+)

48 38 lots to recommend going the 357/38 special route

Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2018 07:30 PM (6VrXf)

49 Posted by: In Exile at November 25, 2018 07:26 PM (SDmIR)
-----
I vote for the S&W 686. You will love it.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:31 PM (MVjcR)

50 Any info from anyone of the Turkish Mauser what be bad metals thing?

McGyver, out

Posted by: McGyver at November 25, 2018 07:31 PM (NCLen)

51 Anyone for a 1917 Enfield or Moison-Nagant that saw US service in the Great War?

Not sure what you're asking but I would love a nice unsporterized M1917. For a long time they were considered less desireable than the 03 but prices for unmolested ones are now up in the same range.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at November 25, 2018 07:31 PM (qc+VF)

52 WTF??? Twitter suspended Jesse Kelly.

How do Farrakhan and Hamas have active accounts?
@gaypatriot is right: being a conservative is against Twitter ToS.

Fuck them all.

Posted by: Shopgirl #PatrickIsMahomesie at November 25, 2018 07:32 PM (ir6ZB)

53 Posted by: Panhandler at November 25, 2018 07:29 PM (ibCu/)
------
Fun, aren't they?

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:32 PM (MVjcR)

54 Was the '03 Sprg. the rifle we lent to the Limeys in WWII and then the idiots heaved them into the Atlantic after the war?

Posted by: clutch at November 25, 2018 07:33 PM (kiSdp)

55 46 So, hypothetically speaking, if a low-number Springfield fell into my hands, and i wanted to shoot it, and did not want to blow my face off, could I proof-test it by loading a cartridge to, say, a 50% overload, clamp the rifle in a bench, and fire it by pulling on a long string, from behind cover?
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 25, 2018 07:30 PM (fDU8w)
-----
I would not recommend intentionally overloading any weapon.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:33 PM (MVjcR)

56 38 Plenty of Colt Officers Model revolvers on GunBroker. They're fun to shoot and rock solid.

Posted by: JimK at November 25, 2018 07:33 PM (uAlm4)

57 Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 07:30 PM (QDnY+)
-----
Thanks!!

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:35 PM (MVjcR)

58 I only have one 30-06, a Savage Axis that is fine except that I bash my thumb against the optic when I work the bolt.

I've always wanted a Springfield '03. The prices are a bit too high for me to justify. I don't really have a great option for long range shooting, so I tend to stick to pistols for most of my practice.

I need to fix that...

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 07:35 PM (xJa6I)

59
I know if I had his money the first thing I would do is get all my teeth fixed. Implants maybe.

Installed by a crack team of British orthodontists.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at November 25, 2018 07:35 PM (LsBY9)

60 I would not recommend intentionally overloading any weapon.
Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:33 PM (MVjcR)

Is there then a recommended way to verify the soundness of the receiver? Brinnell hardness test, maybe?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 25, 2018 07:36 PM (fDU8w)

61 Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at November 25, 2018 07:31 PM (qc+VF)
--------
I have a M1917 and will do a thread on it soon.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:36 PM (MVjcR)

62 Speaking of Jack Nicholson, we're watching The Bucket List.

Posted by: ALH at November 25, 2018 07:37 PM (dczB+)

63 Is there then a recommended way to verify the soundness of the receiver? Brinnell hardness test, maybe?
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 25, 2018 07:36 PM (fDU8w)

Pretty sure this is what your useless deadbeat brother in law is for.

Posted by: weirdflunky at November 25, 2018 07:37 PM (r5k3Z)

64 AOP,
This is the thread where you were concerned I was spam.
https://preview.tinyurl.com/y98tc7vr

Well, this is who I am if you care to read it. I should go back and find some of my discussions with you. Although I am good at creating technology, I am bad at using it. I can never find the search field here though I am sure I have used it.

What is ironic is that Pixy gives me string warnings on his own links. So silly.

Posted by: tehDave at November 25, 2018 07:38 PM (JkygK)

65 In Exile, your good choices are beyond counting.

Seems you're open to revolver or semi-auto. Since you have 2 semis, why not a revolver next?

S and W 686 (or 586, the blued version) is a solid choice. But so would be a Model 66, from their "classic" line. I assume you want full-length (4", 6", etc) revolver, not a snub. And there's Ruger (GP100 the closest equivalent to a 686), and even Taurus.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 07:38 PM (QDnY+)

66 Fun, aren't they?

I have managed over the years to collect an 03A4 with the original M82 scope, an 03 with a Lyman peep sight and Lyman front ghost sights and an M1922 with Lyman sights, these would have been at the Texas MoMe weather permitting.

Posted by: Panhandler at November 25, 2018 07:39 PM (ibCu/)

67 Yeah Weasel, what would be the test to determine if your '03 was geflummocked? Magnafluxing?

Posted by: clutch at November 25, 2018 07:39 PM (kiSdp)

68 I recall reading something a couple years ago that argued that the problem was not wartime production and that a lot of the receivers that are known to have failed were pre-war production, so I wouldn't assume that a receiver made before 1914 was safe for that reason alone.

If the receiver has lasted long enough to wear out a bunch of barrels, though, it is likely not one of the ones that got overheated, though.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 25, 2018 07:39 PM (bZ7mE)

69 I got into gunzzz (as a buyer/owner) just as Springfields were leaving the bargain-if-you're-patient-and-know-what-you're-doing phase, and becoming pricey. Right after CMP ran out, I think.

Some day.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 07:40 PM (QDnY+)

70 Thinking about a .357/.38 Special (likely S&W 686+) or a 9MM. Doesn't need to be a CC weapon and am looking for something that will last.
Posted by: In Exile at November 25, 2018 07:26 PM (SDmIR)

One important consideration: 9mm will be the cheapest to shoot, by far. There are so many wonder-9's out there... Try them all!

Posted by: tumbleweed at November 25, 2018 07:40 PM (z0tG2)

71 60 I would not recommend intentionally overloading any weapon.
Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:33 PM (MVjcR)

Is there then a recommended way to verify the soundness of the receiver? Brinnell hardness test, maybe?
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 25, 2018 07:36 PM (fDU8w)
-------
That's a really good question and I'm afraid I don't have much of an answer. I doubt any gunsmith will tell you it's OK for liability reasons. I've used surplus M2 Ball in this rifle with no problem, but generally use light hand loads in it. Can't say offhand I can think of a satisfactory way to test the receiver. One possible solution is to have it chambered so that all of the case is supported.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:41 PM (MVjcR)

72 I like military bolt actions, but find the Enfield has the best, most smooth bolt. The Mauser 98 and 48 come in second place, imo. The 1903 is obviously a reliable bolt action despite war time production short cuts. Everybody has their favorites.

Thanks for the gun thread.

Posted by: colfax mingo at November 25, 2018 07:41 PM (tCvhJ)

73 S and W 686 (or 586, the blued version) is a solid choice. But so would be a Model 66, from their "classic" line. I assume you want full-length (4", 6", etc) revolver, not a snub. And there's Ruger (GP100 the closest equivalent to a 686), and even Taurus.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 07:38 PM (QDnY+)

Thanks, rhomboid. I shot an N-frame at the range last week and really enjoyed it. Will probably want a snubby eventually (likely for wife home defense), but am leaning to a full frame likely 4". Have relatively weak wrists as of now, so get a bit wobbly aiming with a 6" barrel.

Posted by: In Exile at November 25, 2018 07:42 PM (SDmIR)

74 So, some asshole has been shooting adult sea lions here in West Seattle.

Sea lions are BIG animals.

What do you suppose the perps are using?

Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 07:42 PM (PkVlr)

75
Pretty sure this is what your useless deadbeat brother in law is for.
Posted by: weirdflunky at November 25, 2018 07:37 PM (r5k3Z)
------
Excellent advice!

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:42 PM (MVjcR)

76 And now the Horde is gonna depress me further with their tales of 03s and 1917s. Oh well.

In a gunzz-related item, I saw a movie on the trans-Pacific flight (only time I actually see movies, more/less), the latest Mission Impossible (6?).

Anyway, in a key scene (fight in a large restroom), a gun formerly possessed by a bad guy, but which fell to the floor during the initial fighting, is then picked up by Cruise. I replayed the scene a few times, but still couldn't be sure. It looked like a CZ-83 (one of my faves) - but of course there are several Euro 380/.32 Walther imitations that look like a CZ-83.

So when I was back, went to Firearms IMDB, to check. Unfortunately there seems to be no write-up for that movie, yet, or something. Just a page with file links, to nothing. The write-ups at that site are usually comprehensive, detailed.

Anyway, just a thing.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 07:44 PM (QDnY+)

77 ....and speaking of fixing things, this week's range trip revealed some odd things.

I was shooting my Gen 3 Glock 19, since I am breaking in a new Don Hume leather holster I am trying to carry the G19 as much as possible for now.

Mozambique drills at 5 yards were stellar. Not my best ever, but damn good for starting cold. Double-taps were flying for once. I rushed some of my head shots but, eh, something else for me to focus on another day.

The problem came at slow fire time. Seven yards, trying to put them all in the 10 ring with an IPSC silhouette, same as we used for the Moron shootout last year.

The group was outstanding, just one big hole more or less....a big hole that was very obviously low and left. VERY obviously. Still an unhealthy bad guy but WTF???

I was shooting modified isosceles, as Greg Hamilton had been trying to hammer into my head in the last General Defensive Handgun class last month. Now, that's not my normal stance but, eh, I'm trying to be open minded.

I try again, with a different brand of ammo, thinking maybe the PPU JHP 115 gr might be patterning left.

Nope.

Sweet Fiocchi 115gr JHP did the same damn thing, printing low and left. Now that's a classic flinch grouping for me. (that and shooting at 6 o'clock low, usually with .45 ACP)

So I changed my stance back to a 'combat Weaver', the way Jeff Cooper ordained: Left foot forward (ideally pointed at the target but I'm not always setting my feet for drills), right foot back and at a 30 to 45 degree angle, right arm stiff as a board, left arm bent, elbow against my Norwegian Edwards torso.

Fucking bang on. Rest of the shooting, about 100 rounds, with that same grip and stance was dead on.

Now....is the fault in me or in my stars? I don't THINK it's the gun, though the grip of the G19 is not as comfortable as my XD9 or my PPQ. I MIGHT be reaching too far for the trigger, but I'm inclined to think it's a flinch reaction which the stiff arm Weaver stance mitigates.

Thoughts? Advice? Phone numbers for promiscuous but hot younger sisters?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 07:45 PM (xJa6I)

78 I have a 1903A3 and a 1903A4 (with repo scope) that were built from drill rifles. Some people claim they are not safe but I've never had a hint of a problem with either one.

Posted by: The Walking Dude at November 25, 2018 07:45 PM (cCxiu)

79 Most wished for book on Amazon... "Becoming" Best seller on Amazon "Becoming"... to keep it gun related... just shoot me now!!!

Posted by: lin-duh at November 25, 2018 07:45 PM (kufk0)

80 '03A3 by Smith Corona refurb 1943, him belong Mrs. E. Cost 1/2 a pickup load of alfalfa in 1946 or thereabouts. Shooting some Glocks and some Ruger revolvers tomorrow after work.

Posted by: Eromero at November 25, 2018 07:46 PM (zLDYs)

81 Heard about this sea lion shooting on talk radio news breaks, how many and how often?

Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2018 07:46 PM (6VrXf)

82 Well, this is who I am if you care to read it. I should go back and find some of my discussions with you. Although I am good at creating technology, I am bad at using it. I can never find the search field here though I am sure I have used it.

What is ironic is that Pixy gives me string warnings on his own links. So silly.
Posted by: tehDave at November 25, 2018 07:38 PM (JkygK)

OK, David. I read your post 285 there. I had gone back outside, and didn't read further in that thread. I think what your are doing is worthwhile. I think what set off my spidey-sense for spam was the fact that you mentioned dollar values in your earlier post. And I never read the prior thread at all, which I guess you referenced.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 25, 2018 07:47 PM (fDU8w)

83 There's a membership card? Where do I register?
Posted by: ALH at November 25, 2018 07:27 PM (dczB+)

---------

Wait #twoweeks and the official AoSHQ subdermal microchip will be available.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 25, 2018 07:48 PM (YEpQs)

84
This is what I was issued in USN Boot Camp. Carried it everywhere for 2 months. Did exercises with it.

Same here. Great Lakes 1971.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 25, 2018 07:48 PM (aKsyK)

85 Ok, you are dangerous and a lunatic, Weasel. But shooting the '03 has nothing to do with it.

Posted by: RI Red at November 25, 2018 07:48 PM (THrM3)

86 73 S and W 686 (or 586, the blued version) is a solid choice. But so would be a Model 66, from their "classic" line. I assume you want full-length (4", 6", etc) revolver, not a snub. And there's Ruger (GP100 the closest equivalent to a 686), and even Taurus.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 07:38 PM (QDnY+)

Thanks, rhomboid. I shot an N-frame at the range last week and really enjoyed it. Will probably want a snubby eventually (likely for wife home defense), but am leaning to a full frame likely 4". Have relatively weak wrists as of now, so get a bit wobbly aiming with a 6" barrel.
Posted by: In Exile at November 25, 2018 07:42 PM (SDmIR)

Avoid snubbies. They are not easy to shoot well. But I'm very happy with my S&W Model 10, if you don't mind .38 special.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 07:48 PM (xJa6I)

87 Yeah Weasel, what would be the test to determine if your '03 was geflummocked? Magnafluxing?

Magnafluxing is for existing cracks, I think.

Steel is a kind of crystal. When it is properly stress-relieved and normalized after forging and hardened at the optimum temperature, the crystal structure keeps a very fine, even grain that is as strong as possible. If it is heated too much, the grain structure is coarser and uneven, which weakens it. That is the problem here.

The only way I know to assess that is destructive testing, by breaking the steel and looking at the grain (you can often tell with the naked eye). It is possible that there is another way, but I don't know what it is - you might get someone to examine a clean, polished area with a powerful microscope, but you'd need someone who knows what to look for and is willing to take on the potential liability of declaring it safe. Metallurgists are reluctant to go out on a limb like that, in my (very limited) experience.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 25, 2018 07:49 PM (bZ7mE)

88 Hey everybody, again. Back from the store.

Mind if I turn this from a gun thread to a state-of-retail thread? I drove by my nearby mall today and was shocked to see so many available parking spaces.

Seems brick-and-mortar retail really is dying...

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 07:49 PM (miE9U)

89 Other gunzz stuff.

In Nagasaki, walking around an area at night that was packed with little restaurants and bars, saw a uniformed officer, with an earpiece, standing outside one little restaurant. Clearly security for some govt. type inside. Quite the rare treat in Japan.

Meanwhile, in the passport control hall at SFO, every CBP officer is packing. WTF? Just looked ridiculous. An area that's about as secure, and certain to be free of weapons of any kind, as any public space in the USA. And every guy has a .40 or something (oh, and the tactical vest thinggies - come on - in the recent past, everyone in these halls was dressed normally for a paper/desk job).

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 07:49 PM (QDnY+)

90 85 Ok, you are dangerous and a lunatic, Weasel. But shooting the '03 has nothing to do with it.
Posted by: RI Red at November 25, 2018 07:48 PM (THrM3)
------
You been talking to WeaselWoman?

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:49 PM (MVjcR)

91 Oops, make that a gun thread AND state-of-American-retail thread.

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 07:49 PM (miE9U)

92 I last heard 7 sea lions in the last week. They wash up on the beach with multiple gsw

Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 07:49 PM (PkVlr)

93 Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 07:45 PM (xJa6I)

Seems to me the point is to hit the target. If your version of the Weaver works for you then use it.

To hell with what the "experts" tell you what you must do.

If it works for you, that's the correct stance. Period.

Posted by: weirdflunky at November 25, 2018 07:50 PM (r5k3Z)

94 If the receiver has lasted long enough to wear out a
bunch of barrels, though, it is likely not one of the ones that got
overheated, though.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 25, 2018 07:39 PM

---

Yep. If any 03 Springfield has a barrel dated after 1930 or so it ain't gonna fail due to bad receiver hardening.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at November 25, 2018 07:50 PM (JUOKG)

95 Weasel,Thanks for the thread, as always, and especally for some FACTS about low number '03s. Mine is as issued from 1917. I have shot everything from standard 150 grain ammo to my cast bullet reloads. (It loves those reduced power cast bullet loads.)

Upon learning a have a GASP!! low number rifle people started giving their advice on how dangerous they are. Mind you, they had never seen one blow up or even knew of anyone who had. But, damn, they sure were sure. There is more doubt about the earth orbiting the sun there there is in their opinion. (I wonder if this is the same mindset that gave us the infallible food pyramid that was unquestioned for 50 years. Based on nothing but incorrect guess work that no one dared to question.)

In the meantime, I'll continue to use a superb rifle.

Yeah, I feel strongly about the matter.

Posted by: JTB at November 25, 2018 07:51 PM (758Rh)

96 74 So, some asshole has been shooting adult sea lions here in West Seattle.

Sea lions are BIG animals.

What do you suppose the perps are using?
Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 07:42 PM (PkVlr)

---------

The illegal alien who killed Kate Steinle claimed to be shooting at sea lions (using a stolen gun). This is the type of colorful local tradition that we would not know of if the glorious tapestry of diversity had not been brought to our shores.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 25, 2018 07:51 PM (YEpQs)

97 if you don't mind .38 special.

'I never knew there'd come a day
when I'd be sayin' to you,
don't let this good love slip away...'

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 07:51 PM (miE9U)

98 So here's yer sad 1903 Springfield story. I was 15, c.1964, and ordered a surplus 1903 from an ad on the back cover of Boy's Life. I don't remember who the seller was. I mailed exactly $15.95 to someplace in Florida and about a week later the rifle appeared, causing some mild temper in my GI dad. I had no ammo, no money and little sense. I went to see our local gunsmith who inspected the rifle, which had a brand new barrel and a bolt with few scratches. He gave me about 10 rounds of surplus rounds which I went out and touched off at targets around 100 yards, trying valiantly to sight it in, which was successful. I boogered up my upper lip by curling my right thumb over the top of the stock, said thumb repeatedly splattering my upper lip. My dad laughed. The rifle shot very well and I worked up some reloads per the gunsmith's recommendations using a Lee threaded one-round reloading device. Replaced the stock with a sportier type, removed the military sights, replacing them with smaller, more normal sights. Still shot well. About 1971, I sold the rifle to one of my friends who did not keep it. He lost track and so did I. My first center fire rifle. Shot a few deer and one elk with it.

Posted by: LRob in TX at November 25, 2018 07:53 PM (a66nm)

99 Posted by: Grey Fox at November 25, 2018 07:49 PM (bZ7mE)
------
I'd heard somewhere about the destructive testing. On sort of the same subject, don't some people shoot Garlands with receivers that have been cut and welded back together? I think I read that somewhere.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:53 PM (MVjcR)

100
if you don't mind .38 special.

'I never knew there'd come a day
when I'd be sayin' to you,
don't let this good love slip away...'
Posted by: qdpsteve

I like the cover version by .357 magnum.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 25, 2018 07:54 PM (aKsyK)

101 I like military bolt actions, but find the Enfield has the best, most smooth bolt. The Mauser 98 and 48 come in second place, imo.
Posted by: colfax mingo at November 25, 2018 07:41 PM (tCvhJ)

Try a Krag-Jørgensen, if you get the chance. Swiss K-rifles have really nice bolts too.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 25, 2018 07:54 PM (t+qrx)

102 97 if you don't mind .38 special.

'I never knew there'd come a day
when I'd be sayin' to you,
don't let this good love slip away...'
Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 07:51 PM (miE9U)

Love that band...

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 07:54 PM (xJa6I)

103 Mark AE, my XD9 (or rather, *my own self* when shooting it) patterns extremely consistently, and defiantly, low/left of bullseye - after years of shooting it.

I can correct to dead-on through very, very deliberate slow-fire where I'm paying attention to more things than golf coaches say you can do during your swing.

But once back to "normal" shooting ...... one ragged hole, low left (not *that* far low left, but still).

It's not something that happens with the 1911, or revolvers, or even the CZ-83, so for now I've given up on it, just cheat a bit and adjust high/right if I need to (as in match shots where there's a small steel at 15 yards or something).

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 07:54 PM (QDnY+)

104 Posted by: weirdflunky at November 25, 2018 07:50 PM (r5k3Z)

Wisdom.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 07:55 PM (xJa6I)

105 91 Oops, make that a gun thread AND state-of-American-retail thread.
Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 07:49 PM (miE9U)

The malls I visited this weekend were packed. Even had police directing traffic on Friday at the King of Prussia mall

Posted by: josephistan at November 25, 2018 07:55 PM (Izzlo)

106 Some fishermen shoot sea lions in the belief that they eat fish, which is silly. Everybody knows they eat quiche and PBJ sammiches.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 25, 2018 07:55 PM (fDU8w)

107 My guess this sea lion killer if 1 person will move to other prey eventually.

Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2018 07:56 PM (6VrXf)

108 josephistan, really?
Maybe it's just California then.

I know my local mall will be busier soon, but still, I always thought everything was packed all Black Friday weekend.

I know for a lot of these stores, they do 75-90% of all the business they're gonna do *all year,* in the next month.

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 07:57 PM (miE9U)

109 My deceased father-in-law owned a Western Auto in Jasper, TN. Pretty small town outside of Chattanooga. Among other things, he sold guns. He was a gun nut like you guys. He was really super nice, but very quiet. When I started dating his daughter Melissa, who is now my wife, he asked if I'd like to see his guns. He had a lot of guns. Then he asked if he could drive my Suzuki Samurai. Well after the gun show, yes.

His store was broken into a few times and the thieves took guns. Well, one day, the ATF showed up and invited Roby to a "seminar". Of course he agreed, and the "seminar" was 4 ATF agents grilling him on the stolen guns.

One interesting thing is that my brother-in-law Jeff got his EE from Tennessee Tech. His first job was with the Jackson, TN power company. His last job was VP of Regulatory (lobbying etc) for Shell North America.
Sadly they both died this year from Huntington's Diseas within a week of each other. Apparently when males inherit from a father, the disease is worse. Jeff was only 53 when he died. I learned a lot from Jeff. He was a great guy.
Sorry to get off topic. More spam I guess.

Posted by: David Prince aka SPAM at November 25, 2018 07:57 PM (JkygK)

110 Posted by: JTB at November 25, 2018 07:51 PM (758Rh)
------
Glad you like it, JTB! I get annoyed when people hear something and have half the story and start quoting it as an absolute truth. I had to re-write part of this thread as to not be too critical of them.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:57 PM (MVjcR)

111 Why yes, I did go to the range yesterday morning. Where, thanks to not paying close enough attention for 5 extra seconds, my Ruger .380ACP promptly bit me. Nothing serious thankfully, but blood all over the place.

Posted by: Country Boy - out of exile at November 25, 2018 07:58 PM (MCvl4)

112 ovember 25, 2018 07:41 PM (tCvhJ)

Try a Krag-J�rgensen, if you get the chance. Swiss K-rifles have really nice bolts too.
Posted by: hogmartin at November 25, 2018 07:54 PM (t+qrx)
-----
I've heard they are great shooters.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 07:59 PM (MVjcR)

113 110 ... "I get annoyed when people hear something and have half the story and start quoting it as an absolute truth. I had to re-write part of this thread as to not be too critical of them."

Weasel, Not to worry. I'll happily criticize them enough for both of us.

Posted by: JTB at November 25, 2018 08:00 PM (758Rh)

114 Country Boy, so now you're a zombie right? ;-)

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 08:00 PM (miE9U)

115 I'd heard somewhere about the destructive testing. On sort of the same subject, don't some people shoot Garlands with receivers that have been cut and welded back together? I think I read that somewhere.

I have no idea.

I'm just a hobbyist blacksmith. I know enough to heat treat knife blades and tools, and just enough theory to sound like I know what I'm doing.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 25, 2018 08:00 PM (bZ7mE)

116 Is there any testing done with new gun models, that's similar to crash tests for cars?

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 08:01 PM (miE9U)

117 In 1942-44 the United States also equipped the Free French Army of Charles DeGaulle with low numbered Springfields.

Heh

Posted by: Braenyard at November 25, 2018 08:01 PM (p/8Bt)

118 A Krag is on my list. What's not to like in a rifle with a magazine that looks like an ashtray you'd find in an old car hanging off the side.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at November 25, 2018 08:02 PM (FTlwv)

119 Country Boy, so now you're a zombie right? ;-)
Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 08:00 PM (miE9U)

Not sure about zombie, but maybe vampire with the blood trail I was leaving behind me.

Posted by: Country Boy - out of exile at November 25, 2018 08:02 PM (MCvl4)

120 Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 07:54 PM (QDnY+)

Weird. Funny how guns differ sometimes. My XD is right on, the PPQ is like magic and my Tanfolgio Witness is like cheating. Even my Gen 2 G21 is weirdly accurate for me.

I need to take my G19 to the range again and see if it is grip, stance or flinch.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 08:02 PM (xJa6I)

121 ewhere.

I have no idea.

I'm just a hobbyist blacksmith. I know enough to heat treat knife blades and tools, and just enough theory to sound like I know what I'm doing.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 25, 2018 08:00 PM (bZ7mE)
-----
Garands not garlands. Maybe someone else will chime in, it sounds just goofy enough to be true.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 08:03 PM (MVjcR)

122 nurseratched
I've seen a couple of stories about the sea lion killings.
I think most fishermen hate them because they are obnoxious.
The thought also occurs that some deranged save the salmon fool is killing them in some bizarre attempt to save the orcas. Since they both feed on salmon and the whales are supposedly dying off.
Of course, last year was a bumper crop of baby orcas born but now, suddenly, they're croaking.

Posted by: Winston a dreg of society at November 25, 2018 08:03 PM (+TuXx)

123 Do you people remember when we had a Loving Presdent of Color ????

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattlboro, VT at November 25, 2018 08:04 PM (qM84C)

124 josephistan, really?
Maybe it's just California then.

I know my local mall will be busier soon, but still, I always thought everything was packed all Black Friday weekend.

I know for a lot of these stores, they do 75-90% of all the business they're gonna do *all year,* in the next month.
Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 07:57 PM (miE9U)

The mall I went to over the weekend here in NorCal was the busiest I've ever seen it, I had to park at the very edge of the parking lot.

What you experienced must just be a SoCal thing.

Posted by: Surfperch, Making Observations at November 25, 2018 08:04 PM (pkeCj)

125 Guns! Now all we need are boobs!

Posted by: Insomniac at November 25, 2018 08:04 PM (NWiLs)

126 Do you people remember when we had a Loving Presdent of Color ????
Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattlboro, VT at November 25, 2018 08:04 PM (qM84C)

Do you remember when your vag wasn't filled with sand?

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 08:05 PM (miE9U)

127 125 Guns! Now all we need are boobs!
Posted by: Insomniac at November 25, 2018 08:04 PM (NWiLs)

More wisdom.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 08:05 PM (xJa6I)

128 I saw .38 Special open for the Dead at Watkins Glen in ,73.

Posted by: Nick Danger,Third Eye at November 25, 2018 08:05 PM (c1JKE)

129 'Do you people remember when we had a Loving Presdent of Color ????'

Yep. A lovely golden color.

Posted by: a fucking polar bear at November 25, 2018 08:05 PM (UdKB7)

130 Weasel, what kind of 6.5 are you shooting? I've been researching the Creedmore as the next wonder round.

Posted by: RI Red at November 25, 2018 08:05 PM (THrM3)

131 125 Guns! Now all we need are boobs!
Posted by: Insomniac at November 25, 2018 08:04 PM (NWiLs)

And booze!

LGBT - Loves guns, booze & titties

Posted by: josephistan at November 25, 2018 08:06 PM (Izzlo)

132 Surfperch, who knows. I didn't circle the entire mall and I admit the busiest part is usually nearest Macy's. (I passed the JCPenney side.)

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 08:06 PM (miE9U)

133 I sure wish the internet tubes had been in general use in 1992. I bought a 1903 off of a coworker for either $200 or $250. He didn't really know what it was, and neither did I. Fired it once. Trigger must have been 10 lbs. Bolt barely moved. I quickly traded it to some random dude for an unknown shotgun that I later traded for some random pistol. All long gone now. The rifle probably just desperately needed a cleaning and a lubing.

I still kick myself for giving up that rifle.

Posted by: Eustace Haverkamp at November 25, 2018 08:06 PM (C1NyB)

134 123 Do you people remember when we had a Loving Presdent of Color ????
Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattlboro, VT at November 25, 2018 08:04 PM (qM84C)

"You People"

You racist.

And white is a color

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 08:06 PM (xJa6I)

135 heard that "Glock" is Austrian for "Hi-Point"

Kimber > fill in the blank...

Posted by: Anon a mouse at November 25, 2018 08:07 PM (6qErC)

136 A Krag is on my list. What's not to like in a rifle with a magazine that looks like an ashtray you'd find in an old car hanging off the side.
Posted by: Jinx the Cat at November 25, 2018 08:02 PM (FTlwv)

Agreed. And you can top off the magazine without opening the bolt, because why not.

n.b. they're reputedly not as sturdy as other USGI rifles but I have nothing to back that up with.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 25, 2018 08:08 PM (t+qrx)

137 LGBT - Loves guns, booze & titties
Posted by: josephistan at November 25, 2018 08:06 PM (Izzlo)

I may steal that.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 08:08 PM (xJa6I)

138 I'd eat pinniped. They look tasty.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at November 25, 2018 08:08 PM (/qEW2)

139 Well she has it right Barak was of 'colors' two of them

Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2018 08:08 PM (6VrXf)

140 Eustace, internet was around in 1992. It's just the web that wasn't up and running yet. (That didn't come in until 1994.)

Part of what made AOL so popular at the beginning, is that it had a GUI, or graphic user interface. No more typing commands.

I remember doing some of my very first internet surfing in bulletin board rooms with my (I think) 12k baud modem...

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 08:09 PM (miE9U)

141 Not gun related but ...weapons. Sorta.

A week or two ago Weasel casually mentioned learning to whittle. That got me thinking that I hadn't done any whittling or chip carving for a long time. Got out my knives to sharpen and read up on chip carving technique. I had forgotten how enjoyable and relaxing it is. Glad he brought up the idea.

One of the benefits of whittling is that it doesn't have to be anything besides a pile of wood chips.

Posted by: JTB at November 25, 2018 08:09 PM (758Rh)

142 Prodigy, which was started up in 1982 by Sears and a few other companies, also had a very basic GUI. But it was very blocky, like a really basic version of Minecraft.

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 08:10 PM (miE9U)

143 Winston,

My fear is that the idiot will find pleasure in killing things. This is my neighborhood. Blocks away. I have a .357 and my boy has an AR. What am I up against with this freak?

Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 08:10 PM (PkVlr)

144 from all my reading on the issue (did i mention i had a low number gun?) the only way to test would destroy the receiver, which pretty much defeats the purpose.

i also agree with the "if it was gonna blow, it would have by now" theory, and the defective ammo is also a likely cause, since ammo production was ramping up at the same time.

haven't seen Jim SND 'round here in some time, and the last update on the project i got was via ONT not e-mail, but he was re-chambering the gun in a different caliber with a lower operating pressure, because there's a limit to bravery as you get older. i just disremember what cartridge he'd chosen.

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 25, 2018 08:10 PM (xPNLF)

145 131 125 Guns! Now all we need are boobs!
Posted by: Insomniac at November 25, 2018 08:04 PM (NWiLs)

And booze!

LGBT - Loves guns, booze & titties
Posted by: josephistan at November 25, 2018 08:06 PM (Izzlo)

Right on!

Posted by: Insomniac at November 25, 2018 08:10 PM (NWiLs)

146 My fear is that the idiot will find pleasure in killing things. This is my neighborhood. Blocks away. I have a .357 and my boy has an AR. What am I up against with this freak?
Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 08:10 PM (PkVlr)

I've seen you shoot.

HE should be worried, not you.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 08:11 PM (xJa6I)

147 Guns! Now all we need are boobs!

Posted by: Insomniac at November 25, 2018 08:04 PM (NWiLs)

---
ask and ye shall receive:

( . ) ( . )

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 25, 2018 08:11 PM (xPNLF)

148 ( secretly Mary stops by for firearm tips, probably has a nice AR with collapsible stock in her closet)

Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2018 08:11 PM (6VrXf)

149 Skip, the sight of some of these semi-autos gives her a strange quivering way down deep that she hasn't felt in decades... ;-)

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 08:12 PM (miE9U)

150 130 Weasel, what kind of 6.5 are you shooting? I've been researching the Creedmore as the next wonder round.

Posted by: RI Red at November 25, 2018 08:05 PM (THrM3)
-------
.260 Remington and a 6.5-284. I have another buddy who wants to look at the Creedmore as a hunting round. The .260 has been a popular hunting round in Europe for a long time.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 08:12 PM (MVjcR)

151 Thanks, mark!

You are a great instructor!

Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 08:12 PM (PkVlr)

152 143 Winston,

My fear is that the idiot will find pleasure in killing things. This is my neighborhood. Blocks away. I have a .357 and my boy has an AR. What am I up against with this freak?
Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 08:10 PM (PkVlr)

Are you a sea lion?

Posted by: Insomniac at November 25, 2018 08:13 PM (NWiLs)

153 Part of what made AOL so popular at the beginning"

Compuserv, Prodigy, and UUnet say "get off my lawn"

Posted by: Anon a mouse at November 25, 2018 08:14 PM (6qErC)

154 So here's yer sad 1903 Springfield story. I was 15, c.1964, and ordered
a surplus 1903 from an ad on the back cover of Boy's Life. I don't
remember who the seller was. I mailed exactly $15.95 to someplace in
Florida and about a week later the rifle appeared, causing some mild
temper in my GI dad.

Posted by: LRob in TX at November 25, 2018 07:53 PM

---

Similar story here. Worked at Woolworth's back in the day and bought a surplus 8mm Mauser with my first two week paycheck for $19.95 and got two boxes of ammo with it. My Korean war Vet dad was not happy and called them "man killing bullets".

It's been so long ago I don't recall what happened to that rifle.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at November 25, 2018 08:14 PM (JUOKG)

155 Question for the horde, I'm no gun expert but I have a few. My wife uses a Taurus .38 5 round snub for ease of use and simplicity. I'm looking for something with a little more punch, and holding more rounds.

She has trouble racking my ppk so can anyone think of a larger caliber semi-auto easier to use for a small older lady?

Thanks in advance. A long time lurker.

Posted by: Swifty at November 25, 2018 08:14 PM (w3iS3)

156 I think it's gonna be a long long time

Posted by: Cosmic Charlie at November 25, 2018 08:14 PM (PUmDY)

157 Anon, yeah they were out there. I remember seeing a blurb for CompuServe at the end of 20/20 on Thursday nights, as early as 1980.

But they used the old fashioned line-command operation structure. No GUI.

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 08:15 PM (miE9U)

158 One of the benefits of whittling is that it doesn't have to be anything besides a pile of wood chips.

Posted by: JTB at November 25, 2018 08:09 PM (758Rh)
------
And JTB made several great recommendations on the subject. Thanks JTB!

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 08:15 PM (MVjcR)

159 Insom,

That's not very nice.

You know what happens when you're a bad boy

Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 08:16 PM (PkVlr)

160 CompuServe in particular was ridiculously early. I think it started up in 1969, when there wasn't even a consumer market for internet access set up yet.

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 08:16 PM (miE9U)

161 Do you people remember when we had a Loving Presdent of Color ????

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattlboro, VT at November 25, 2018 08:04 PM (qM84C)

*Snort* Why, no; I do not remember that. I do recall a certain America hating, cock curious ponce with a tranny for a beard who spent a lot of time on the golf course. But he was shut canned for a real American.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at November 25, 2018 08:16 PM (PA/U2)

162 Posted by: Anon a mouse at November 25, 2018 08:14 PM (6qErC)

I remember Compuserv. I thought I was hot shit when I graduated to a 14.4 baud modem.

Posted by: Eustace Haverkamp at November 25, 2018 08:16 PM (C1NyB)

163 Here is a link to an article of proof-load testing of firearms:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ycu4ln8p

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 25, 2018 08:17 PM (fDU8w)

164 Nurse ratched
I lived in West Seattle for several years before moving east. It's hard to guess what the idiot is using to shoot the sea lions with as nothing has been released, as to number of wounds or placement. Also, if they are doing necropsies they could tell what caliber etc. It could be most anything with a heavy caliber and/or multiple shots. I've heard they're being found washed up on the beach. Alki? There's a loud lot of them that hang out on the buoys along the shore.
Not enough information out yet, unless you've seen more. I'd worry more about whoever was torturing cats in Pierce Co. last month than someone shooting sea lions.

Posted by: Winston a dreg of society at November 25, 2018 08:17 PM (+TuXx)

165 Winston

No kidding about the freak skinning cats in Pierce Co.

Sea lions are BIG creatures. You aren't gonna kill them with a shotgun.

Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 08:19 PM (PkVlr)

166 155 Question for the horde, I'm no gun expert but I have a few. My wife uses a Taurus .38 5 round snub for ease of use and simplicity. I'm looking for something with a little more punch, and holding more rounds.

She has trouble racking my ppk so can anyone think of a larger caliber semi-auto easier to use for a small older lady?

Thanks in advance. A long time lurker.
Posted by: Swifty at November 25, 2018 08:14 PM (w3iS3)

Hm. If she has a problem racking the slide there are a few semi-autos designed for that.

The Springfield Armory XDE in 9mm holds 8+1
The Smith and Wesson Shield .380 holds 8+1 of .380

Other hammer-fired pistols might be easier to use than a striker fired. The Beretta 92, the CZ 75 or 75 RAMI, SIGs are good if pricey.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 08:20 PM (xJa6I)

167 Similar story here. Worked at Woolworth's back in the day and bought a surplus 8mm Mauser with my first two week paycheck for $19.95 and got two boxes of ammo with it. My Korean war Vet dad was not happy and called them "man killing bullets".

It's been so long ago I don't recall what happened to that rifle.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at November 25, 2018 08:14 PM (JUOKG)

Heh. I thought that military ball ammo was supposed to be less lethal than soft point or hollow-point hunting ammo, because killing an enemy takes just one out of the fray, but wounding one takes out three (the wounded man and the stretcher-bearers).

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 25, 2018 08:20 PM (fDU8w)

168 No GUI"
Sort of. Higher price access got you a limited GUI. Cserve also brought us the .gif...

Posted by: Anon a mouse at November 25, 2018 08:20 PM (6qErC)

169 159 Insom,

That's not very nice.

You know what happens when you're a bad boy
Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 08:16 PM (PkVlr)

*raises eyebrow*

Posted by: Insomniac at November 25, 2018 08:21 PM (NWiLs)

170 Are you a sea lion?
Posted by: Insomniac at November 25, 2018 08:13 PM (NWiLs)

---------

Of course not. Sea lions are strictly prohibited from commenting on this blog.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 25, 2018 08:21 PM (YEpQs)

171 Sea lions are BIG creatures. You aren't gonna kill them with a shotgun.
Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 08:19 PM (PkVlr

I haven't looked into the shootings but my first thought was a shotty with slugs. Slugs are devastating.

Not to be morid, but have they released pics of the poor beasties?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 08:21 PM (xJa6I)

172 No. I suspect whoever it is is using either a heavy handgun, .357 or greater, or a deer rifle. Shotgun with deer slugs maybe. You have to be close to get bullet penetration through the blubber. The Makah were using a .5 rifle to take their one whale per year.

Posted by: Winston a dreg of society at November 25, 2018 08:22 PM (+TuXx)

173 Of course not. Sea lions are strictly prohibited from commenting on this blog.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 25, 2018 08:21 PM (YEpQs)

They also smell bad. Real bad.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 25, 2018 08:23 PM (fDU8w)

174 I'm looking for something with a little more punch, and holding more rounds. "

Try their PT 111 G2 in 9mm...

Posted by: Anon a mouse at November 25, 2018 08:23 PM (6qErC)

175
Sea lions are BIG creatures. You aren't gonna kill them with a shotgun.

Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 08:19 PM (PkVlr

I haven't looked into the shootings but my first thought was a shotty with slugs. Slugs are devastating.

Not to be morid, but have they released pics of the poor beasties?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 08:21 PM

---

Yep, 12 gauge slugs or buck shot. They can both pretty much take out anything in North America including Sea Lions.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at November 25, 2018 08:24 PM (JUOKG)

176 .50 rifle. Frigging keyboard.

Posted by: Winston a dreg of society at November 25, 2018 08:24 PM (+TuXx)

177 Of course not. Sea lions are strictly prohibited from commenting on this blog.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 25, 2018 08:21 PM (YEpQs)

-----

Nobody tells me where to go... nobody!!

You'll never take me alive!

Posted by: The Sea Lion at November 25, 2018 08:24 PM (5aX2M)

178 Lurking. nothing to say except I need to clean my firearms more regularly.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at November 25, 2018 08:25 PM (+6jVU)

179 Heh. I thought that military ball ammo was supposed to be less lethal than soft point or hollow-point hunting ammo, because killing an enemy takes just one out of the fray, but wounding one takes out three (the wounded man and the stretcher-bearers).

Less lethal, but less as a matter of military tactics than because expanding bullets are prohibited under the Hague Conventions, I think. That is why there has been so much effort put into making bullets that tumble when they strike, to the point of putting in wood (.303 British ball ammo) or plastic (Soviet 5.56) tips inside the jacket to make the bullet tail-heavy.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 25, 2018 08:25 PM (bZ7mE)

180 116 ... " Is there any testing done with new gun models, that's similar to crash tests for cars?"

qdpsteve, I'm sure there is serious testing done when a new model is created but you seldom hear about it. I bet the company lawyers would insist on it.

Some testing is well known. When Bill Ruger started to market the first Single-Six he designed a machine that would cock and dry fire the demo ever few seconds to show how strong and reliable is was. After two days without stopping the machine broke down. The revolver was fine.

Another story, and I don't know if it is true, is that when Ruger proofed the Old Army cap and ball revolver, he used a chamber filled with a fast modern pistol powder. That's usually a recipe to destroy a BP gun but the Old Army was so strong it handled the pressure with no problem.

Posted by: JTB at November 25, 2018 08:26 PM (758Rh)

181 The Sea Lion
Somebody is already working on the last part.

Posted by: Winston a dreg of society at November 25, 2018 08:26 PM (+TuXx)

182 Posted by: Cannibal Bob at November 25, 2018 08:25 PM (+6jVU)

Glad to see you, as always, Bob.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 08:27 PM (xJa6I)

183 Swifty, I wear a size small glove and I like my Kimber micro 9.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 25, 2018 08:28 PM (PRuyI)

184 Thanks Mark, you also.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at November 25, 2018 08:29 PM (+6jVU)

185 Kimber micro 9."

What a nice sidearm... really well made.

Posted by: Anon a mouse at November 25, 2018 08:30 PM (6qErC)

186 What's all this about Sealion?

Posted by: zombie Feldmarschall von Brauchitsch at November 25, 2018 08:31 PM (APH/r)

187 Sea lions!
http://wondermark.com/1k62/

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at November 25, 2018 08:31 PM (0ReGO)

188 I'm wearing my yoga trousers with the Mandelbrot set imprint. Conceal-carry is problematic.

Posted by: Fritz at November 25, 2018 08:32 PM (Z9C5C)

189 Kimber Micro9 pricey but shoots well.

Posted by: Eromero at November 25, 2018 08:32 PM (zLDYs)

190 Sea lions!
http://wondermark.com/1k62/
Posted by: Helena Handbasket at November 25, 2018 08:31 PM (0ReGO)

Check out my sick elephant!

Posted by: hogmartin at November 25, 2018 08:32 PM (t+qrx)

191 Somebody is already working on the last part.
Posted by: Winston a dreg of society at November 25, 2018 08:26 PM (+TuXx)

------

It's war. War, I tells ya! But we ain't gonna give Sea-Tac to the orcas without a fight. Those fat bastards know this is lion town.

Posted by: The Sea Lion at November 25, 2018 08:32 PM (5aX2M)

192 Do you people remember when we had a Loving Presdent of Choler ????

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattlboro, VT at November 25, 2018 08:04 PM (qM84C)

---
FTFY!

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 25, 2018 08:33 PM (xPNLF)

193 191. I'd be happy to let the orcas have Sea Tac. Place has become a dump.

Posted by: Winston a dreg of society at November 25, 2018 08:33 PM (+TuXx)

194 155 ... swifty, If your wife doesn't need to conceal carry, I would suggest the CZ 75b. It's a standard size 9mm but the weight makes it comfortable to shoot. Mrs. JTB is small and not a kid but has no trouble racking the slide or handling the recoil. She has used ours in pistol competition.

Posted by: JTB at November 25, 2018 08:33 PM (758Rh)

195 Nobody tells me where to go... nobody!!

You'll never take me alive!
Posted by: The Sea Lion at November 25, 2018 08:24 PM (5aX2M)

Dude! This is a GUN thread.

Posted by: DR.WTF? at November 25, 2018 08:34 PM (T71PA)

196 Fritz,

Yoga pants?

On the gun thread? WTH is wrong with you?

Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 08:35 PM (PkVlr)

197 Good night all, hope you all get the firearm of your dreams

Posted by: Skip at November 25, 2018 08:36 PM (6VrXf)

198 Are there seals on this thread?

Posted by: A Penguin at November 25, 2018 08:37 PM (YEpQs)

199 Night Skip. Thanks again!

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 08:37 PM (MVjcR)

200 Is there then a recommended way to verify the soundness of the receiver? Brinnell hardness test, maybe?
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 25, 2018 07:36 PM (fDU8w)

Take it to an engine shop (or other NDT shop) and have them magflux it?

Posted by: Burnt Toast at November 25, 2018 08:37 PM (1g7ch)

201 Are there seals on this thread?
Posted by: A Penguin at November 25, 2018 08:37 PM (YEpQs)

No.

Posted by: Weddell T. Seal at November 25, 2018 08:39 PM (T71PA)

202 200 Is there then a recommended way to verify the soundness of the receiver? Brinnell hardness test, maybe?
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 25, 2018 07:36 PM (fDU8w)

Take it to an engine shop (or other NDT shop) and have them magflux it?
Posted by: Burnt Toast at November 25, 2018 08:37 PM (1g7ch)
--------
There was a discussion with good commentary up thread a little.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 08:40 PM (MVjcR)

203 Posted by: A Penguin at November 25, 2018 08:37 PM (YEpQs)

------

Well, well, well... whadda we got here? A dandy little guy, in his little tux!

I'm watching you, pretty boy.

Posted by: The Sea Lion at November 25, 2018 08:40 PM (5aX2M)

204 122
nurseratched

I've seen a couple of stories about the sea lion killings.

I think most fishermen hate them because they are obnoxious.

The thought also occurs that some deranged save the salmon fool is
killing them in some bizarre attempt to save the orcas. Since they both
feed on salmon and the whales are supposedly dying off.

Of course, last year was a bumper crop of baby orcas born but now, suddenly, they're croaking.

Posted by: Winston a dreg of society at November 25, 2018 08:03 PM (+TuXx)

The California sea lion issue in Puget Sound is both simple and complicated.

100 years ago, fish were incredibly abundant and the local rivers teemed with them every year when they returned and spawned. Salmon and orcas were a part of life for many, and the sea lions and seals were pests.

Then, a few million people moved into the greater Puget Sound area, and those hundreds of little streams off the half dozen rivers were covered up, channeled, developed, and generally disappeared. Eliminating small streams nearly eliminated the habitat for salmon reproduction. Simple as that.

The sea lions were shot whenever they got close to a net or a catch in the 50's and 60's. Then the 70's changed everything, and they were protected.

But the salmon never rebounded. For that matter, the herring and candlefish haven't rebounded, either.

But the sea lions have ran unchecked for a generation or more. They get to go to where the salmon are most at risk, like pooling at the mouth of a river before a rainstorm, or at the Ballard Locks. And eat them.

So there are simply not enough salmon for all the competing interests, be they commercial fishermen, tribal fisherman, recreational fishermen, all of which have lawyers, and the sea lions and orca whales, that by the way also have lawyers.

Sea lions in Puget Sound today are not unlike feral wild hogs in farm country. They essentially destroy it. And to anyone who says they are cute, well, then so is a 500 pound feral hog. In your vegetable garden, the one you have a couple of hundred hours invested in.

Not justifying any shooting. But to get a handle on the issue, history is your friend. Especially my very non-PC history.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at November 25, 2018 08:40 PM (UsCnO)

205

I'm A-Number One!!

Posted by: Sea Lion King at November 25, 2018 08:41 PM (aKsyK)

206 Cannibal!

found the Cabela's 80 liter dehydrator on sale this weekend, and talked the local (50 miles or so, one way) Bass Pro Shop into giving me the price ($249 + tax) for in-store p/u, saving the $75 big/bulky freight charge...

they're saying 5-10 business days for delivery, so i should be jerking my meat before Christmas!

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 25, 2018 08:41 PM (xPNLF)

207

They also smell bad. Real bad.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 25, 2018 08:23 PM (fDU8w)

Sea lions smell worse than real bad. When I did commercial fishing we'd drag up dead ones in the net sometimes and the smell would knock a buzzard off a gut wagon.

Posted by: clutch at November 25, 2018 08:41 PM (kiSdp)

208 196 Fritz,

Yoga pants?

On the gun thread? WTH is wrong with you?
Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 08:35 PM (PkVlr)

A dude wearing yoga pants is problematic from the get-go, gun thread or not.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 25, 2018 08:42 PM (NWiLs)

209 I spent the weekend rounding up all my spare .32's
and deciding what to take to the Small Arms Review
show in Phx next weekend.

My local gun shop owner had told me he was interested
in whatever I had.

Sold him all 23 C&R .32 pistols today.
Now I have $7K to cruise the aisles next Thurs. night
during "exhibitirs only" hours.
I guess the table I paid for will go unused.

Selling out today at break-even-ish on the spares
sure beats sitting there for 3 days and maybe selling a dozen.

Posted by: retropox at November 25, 2018 08:43 PM (8yJxD)

210 Elton's I think I'm going to kill myself is a very good song, imo.

Posted by: Cosmic Charlie at November 25, 2018 08:43 PM (PUmDY)

211 WeaselDog is a yuuuuuuge fan of beef jerky. Come to think of it I haven't made a batch in a while.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 08:43 PM (JcWux)

212 208 196 Fritz,

Yoga pants?

On the gun thread? WTH is wrong with you?
Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 08:35 PM (PkVlr)

A dude wearing yoga pants is problematic from the get-go, gun thread or not.
Posted by: Insomniac at November 25, 2018 08:42 PM (NWiLs)

Might as well CC in a fanny pack. I mean, nothing to lose at this point...

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 08:43 PM (xJa6I)

213 Thanks all for the recommendations. I'll check those out. I knew you folks would have some good ideas.

Posted by: Swifty at November 25, 2018 08:43 PM (w3iS3)

214 Posted by: Eromero at November 25, 2018 08:32 PM (zLDYs)

Well, eventually. I swear to God it seemed like I had to break it in, and for what it cost, that seemed odd to me. Maybe it's not!

I really like the sights. And it's comfortable to shoot for me, which is the best part, really.

I've had a Glock, ( I think 19) and a Taurus, but never got easy with them.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 25, 2018 08:43 PM (PRuyI)

215 Racking a pistol is a matter of technique. Hold the slide, push the lower. NOT pull the slide.

Mark, your low left is probably in your grip, either the cant of the backstrap is throwing your trigger pull out of whack or your over / under gripping cause new. After that I would check how much finger your getting on the trigger.

Worrying about stance is great for target shooting not so good for defensive shooting. When it comes to stance, if it feels good and works, do it. Mozambique with immediate lateral movement is better than just turn, set, shoot. Traditional drill makes you stationary. I realize this isn't possible at most ranges.

Posted by: Terribletroy at November 25, 2018 08:43 PM (LjbFx)

216 Hi LCD!

I understand the history, the why, where and when. I just want to know what kind of firearm these idiots are using. When they get bored from killing sea lions, which I can hear bellowing from my home, I want to know what they have in hand. A .38? A .50? Or a sawed off shot gun with slugs.

Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 08:45 PM (PkVlr)

217 On the gun thread? WTH is wrong with you?
Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 08:35 PM (PkVlr)

A dude wearing yoga pants is problematic from the get-go, gun thread or not.
Posted by: Insomniac at November 25, 2018 08:42 PM (NWiLs)

Guys, he said yoga trousers. Not yoga pants. They've probably got braces and a watch pocket and chain and everything. No worries.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 25, 2018 08:45 PM (t+qrx)

218 In truth, I turned 2 dozen "replaced by better examples"
into 4 guns in the last few months.
So todays money has already been spent on
a few once in a lifetime pieces.

Posted by: retropox at November 25, 2018 08:45 PM (8yJxD)

219 Sea lions smell worse than real bad. When I did commercial fishing we'd drag up dead ones in the net sometimes and the smell would knock a buzzard off a gut wagon.
Posted by: clutch at November 25, 2018 08:41 PM (kiSdp

-----

I've never fished in the ocean. But I've shot coyote, and those animals stink like hell. Even the fresh blood smells rotten.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 25, 2018 08:46 PM (5aX2M)

220 >>>A dude wearing yoga pants is problematic from the get-go, gun thread or not.<<<

I can't be held responsible. It was the book thread! I was roofied! The dog thread stole my trousers!

Posted by: Fritz at November 25, 2018 08:46 PM (Z9C5C)

221 gotta go start the charcoal for HRH's dinner.

she gets pollo, i'm having left over pig, because i really don't like chicken much, unless it's deep fried.

and i'll have a fryer when the Pagoda Annex is done...

and wired for electricity.

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 25, 2018 08:47 PM (xPNLF)

222 @ Terribletroy

Thanks for the feedback. I thought my grip was ok, but I'll take a closer look. I thought it might be the Glock Hump but...I shoot my G21 pretty on target.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 08:47 PM (xJa6I)

223 Only time I shot a Springfield was as a young teenager.

A trip thru time, seemingly 1,000 years, but actually far less: a couple of young teens walked thru a nice SoCal suburb, down the hill to the quarry along a main road. Carrying the rifle, obviously.

No SWAT! No helicopter! No school lock-downs! No nightly "news"!

So we walk into the dispatch office/trailer at the front. Guys barely look up, one of them says "stay in the back". Which we did, of course, blasting away at small rocks or other "targets" 50 - 100 yds away (area above the quarry was then undeveloped, part of a WWII USMC base).

And that was America not that long ago.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 08:48 PM (QDnY+)

224 I've never fished in the ocean. But I've shot coyote, and those animals stink like hell. Even the fresh blood smells rotten.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 25, 2018 08:46 PM (5aX2M)

Sea lions are the coyotes of the sea. They aren't cute in the wild.

Posted by: Weddell T. Seal at November 25, 2018 08:49 PM (T71PA)

225 / penguin eating sock.

Posted by: DR.WTF? at November 25, 2018 08:49 PM (T71PA)

226 BTW: the idiot shooting the sea lions might be using something stupid, and just letting blood loss/infection/whatever kill them.

find him, then just dump him at the mouth of the straits, at the beginning of an evening low tide.

in January.

in a Speedo thong.

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 25, 2018 08:49 PM (xPNLF)

227
And that was America not that long ago.
Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 08:48 PM (QDnY+)
------
Great story rhomboid. Isn't it a shame the world has gone crazy?

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 08:50 PM (MVjcR)

228 And that was America not that long ago.
Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 08:48 PM (QDnY+)

-----

I can tell this same story, almost exactly, about CO in the 90s. A kid would be shot by the cops now.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 25, 2018 08:50 PM (5aX2M)

229 Tammy al-Thor @ 214- Kimber Micro9 does indeed shoot well, in fact Mrs. E's carry. As for Glock, I carry a G19 a good bit though I have other 9MM...choices. My work gun for the next 2 weeks is a G22, then after going back to a G17. Not a step backwards in my opinion. Most people shoot a G17 better.

Posted by: Eromero at November 25, 2018 08:54 PM (zLDYs)

230 Not only did the mister get me a pistol for my birthday (a Kimber Micro 9), BUT...he got me another one for Christmas!!! (A Kimber K6S in .357)

Either he's a) terminally ill or b) guilty of some heinous crime.
Or c) he knows I love love guns, and he loves loves loves me.

Posted by: antisocialist at November 25, 2018 08:55 PM (2shuf)

231 Back in the 80's in the heart of Chicago, the Park District had a skeet / trap range right on the lakefront north of Diversey.
Buddy & I would strap cased shotguns on our bikes and ride there to shoot a round.
A cop once asked if we had registration papers , we said yes, that was it. Otherwise, nothing. What a different time.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at November 25, 2018 08:57 PM (tSXzq)

232 retro, nice.

Even though I can't buy anything at such a show unless it's C and R (CA), I'm gonna look it up on the web. And please provide a report after you go.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 08:59 PM (QDnY+)

233 Well, eventually. I swear to God it seemed like I had to break it in, and for what it cost, that seemed odd to me. Maybe it's not!

I really like the sights. And it's comfortable to shoot for me, which is the best part, really.

Tammy al-Thor - yes, I had to break mine in, too. Took the first one we bought back to the dealer, in fact, because the safety was so tight you couldn't even use it. Dealer said "Kimber is so tightly-made you have to break them in, and this isn't unusual". I told him if the safety is so stiff I can't operate it, it doesn't work and I don't want it. Traded it for another one, and the safety works fine right out of the box.

Posted by: antisocialist at November 25, 2018 08:59 PM (2shuf)

234 Here's an article about the Mars InSIght mission, scheduled to reach Mars Monday afternoon.

https://preview.tinyurl.com/yb96np6b

I don't think it's off-topic for the gun thread, since once the spacecraft left Earth, it traveled on a ballistic path towards Mars.

Posted by: rickl at November 25, 2018 09:00 PM (sdi6R)

235 Back in the 80's in the heart of Chicago, the Park District had a skeet / trap range right on the lakefront north of Diversey.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at November 25, 2018 08:57 PM (tSXzq)

I bet it wasn't shut down by Gun Grabbers, but by Tree-Huggers worried about lead and clay polluting the lake.

Posted by: Surfperch, Making Observations at November 25, 2018 09:00 PM (pkeCj)

236 Rhomboid, I will.

One of my grails should be here Tuesday,
barring clogged holiday shipping.

Posted by: retropox at November 25, 2018 09:01 PM (8yJxD)

237 234 Here's an article about the Mars InSIght mission, scheduled to reach Mars Monday afternoon.

https://preview.tinyurl.com/yb96np6b

I don't think it's off-topic for the gun thread, since once the spacecraft left Earth, it traveled on a ballistic path towards Mars.
Posted by: rickl at November 25, 2018 09:00 PM (sdi6R)
-------
Ha! And faster than a speeding bullet! I'm looking forward to following the landing. Thanks!

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 09:01 PM (JcWux)

238 Was reading about a very wealthy transsexual who recently paid over a million dollars for his/her new 'vagina.'

Wow, talk about having money up the hoo-hah!

I'll show myself out...

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 09:02 PM (miE9U)

239 I have an '03 Mark 1, with the left-side receiver cutout for ejected cases from the Pedersen Device. Receiver and barrel are 1918 dated.

All original, I think, but I need to do more research about trigger group parts to find out if they are the Pedersen Device type. I've read a lot of conflicting info about this, whether those parts were swapped-out or not when the P-Device was retired and almost all of them were destroyed.

I want to get an 03A3, and an earlier '03 that may have been carried in France in the Great War, but my gun wish list is impossibly long unless I win a lottery.

Posted by: Gref at November 25, 2018 09:04 PM (AMIL/)

240

Bette Midler took to Twitter once again to get into the weeds of politics. This time the 72-year-old singer and actress blamed a low minimum wage for the intense scenes at shopping venues on Black Friday.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 25, 2018 09:04 PM (aKsyK)

241 So I just watched really stupid movie, which sort of turned into a zombie-shooting video game towards the end. Wasn't until the very final scene, as the hero and sister ascend into the light, that I made a connection between the computer game photography and and the name of the movie - "Doom."

Yes, I am slow.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 25, 2018 09:04 PM (bZ7mE)

242 So SoCal suburb (not distant, city limits of a major city) in the early 1970s, Chiraq in the 1980s, CO in the 1990s.

Funny - not a single solitary thing to do with any of the people on this board, or the millions just like us, who have never done a thing the slightest bit objectionable with a firearm, and wouldn't, in a million years.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 09:04 PM (QDnY+)

243 Know nothing about guns

Posted by: Cosmic Charlie at November 25, 2018 09:06 PM (PUmDY)

244 Posted by: Gref at November 25, 2018 09:04 PM (AMIL/)
-----
Hi Gref! Nice collection you have going there. Keep it up!!

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 09:06 PM (JcWux)

245 Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at November 25, 2018 08:40 PM (UsCnO)

Modern tech and methods is wonderful and has saved millions and made our lives infinitely better
BUT things like those streams, the salmon spawning areas, and the Mississippi delta with diminishing estuaries is an area that should be addressed by modern non-whaco brainiacs.

Posted by: Braenyard at November 25, 2018 09:06 PM (p/8Bt)

246 Shooting sea lions to save salmon is probably not as nuts as ripping out the dams along the Snake River.
Of course, then, that won't be good enough so the Columbia River dams will have to go.
I think living in areas with high humidity makes people nuts.

Posted by: Winston a dreg of society at November 25, 2018 09:06 PM (+TuXx)

247
I bet it wasn't shut down by Gun Grabbers, but by Tree-Huggers worried about lead and clay polluting the lake.
Posted by: Surfperch, Making Observations

Aren't they usually the same people?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 25, 2018 09:06 PM (aKsyK)

248 Know nothing about guns

The end with the hole in it goes towards the thing you are trying to shoot.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 25, 2018 09:07 PM (bZ7mE)

249 Problem with diagnosing low left is I've induced it with limp wrist, over trigger, and anticipating the shot. My first remedy would be to tighten my grip, then coach myself to stay with front site for follow through, after that my trigger pull. I know you're a experienced shooter so I'm wondering do you get the same pattern regardless of presentation? Your presentation for a Mozambique drill is faster than when presenting from stationary low ready.

PS. (Trivia) Low left is the most common off center pattern in shooters, least that's what they taught in school

Posted by: Terribletroy at November 25, 2018 09:07 PM (LjbFx)

250
I think living in areas with high humidity makes people nuts.
Posted by: Winston a dreg of society

Florida Man!

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 25, 2018 09:08 PM (aKsyK)

251 248 Know nothing about guns

The end with the hole in it goes towards the thing you are trying to shoot.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 25, 2018 09:07 PM (bZ7mE)
-------
Pretty much sums it up!

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 09:08 PM (JcWux)

252 Le sigh. As I have posted before for my apathy for the M1 Garand, I don't think I will last long here if I let you know what I think about 03 's. ( Not very much I am afraid )

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 09:09 PM (bgJ0E)

253 Bette or Cher? Both terrible.

Posted by: Cosmic Charlie at November 25, 2018 09:09 PM (PUmDY)

254 250
Yep! But I wanted someone else to say it.

Posted by: Winston a dreg of society at November 25, 2018 09:09 PM (+TuXx)

255 Know nothing about guns
Posted by: Cosmic Charlie at November 25, 2018 09:06 PM (PUmDY)

--------

When it clicks, throw it at the head of the person you missed with an entire magazine of ammo.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 25, 2018 09:10 PM (YEpQs)

256 252 Le sigh. As I have posted before for my apathy for the M1 Garand, I don't think I will last long here if I let you know what I think about 03 's. ( Not very much I am afraid )
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 09:09 PM (bgJ0E)
------
That's OK. I like them enough for both of us.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 09:10 PM (JcWux)

257 Ricky Jay has passed away.

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 09:11 PM (miE9U)

258 why would i give a rat's anal area about anything that stool sample bette midler thinks about anything. she is barely coherent.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at November 25, 2018 09:11 PM (KP5rU)

259 My cousin showed me his newest pet, an Iver Johnson 38 Special with a 2.5" barrel. Mint condition. Five shot, and loading is via a side gate, one at a time. Heavy little sucker.

IJ was around for quite a while, but closed shop in the 90s. This particular model was made from '55 to '93.

He had .38SP +Ps in it; an internet search found that +P ammo is NOT recommended for this gun. That's Heh one.

It's double action only, and it has a firing pin safety I hadn't seen before. You can carry 5 rounds in it, but only if you partially pull the hammer back first, which locks the firing pin out and away from the top chamber. He was carrying it without knowing that detail. That's Heh two.

I didn't fire it, but the double action trigger was fairly stiff. He paid $220 for it, which is a fair price in top condition.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 25, 2018 09:12 PM (Z4rgH)

260 248 Know nothing about guns

The end with the hole in it goes towards the thing you are trying to shoot.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 25, 2018 09:07 PM (bZ7mE)

Like sex.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 25, 2018 09:12 PM (NWiLs)

261 252 ... NZFrank, Are there any old battle rifles you do like? Serious question.

Posted by: JTB at November 25, 2018 09:13 PM (758Rh)

262 And that was America not that long ago.
Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 08:48 PM (QDnY+)

-----

I can tell this same story, almost exactly, about CO in the 90s. A kid would be shot by the cops now.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice
-------

When I was a kid, we commonly walked up and down the road to go hunting, while carrying sundry firearms. The town dump was a shooting gallery for us. No one gave it the slightest thought.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 25, 2018 09:13 PM (CDGwz)

263 NZFrank, there are those who like only one or two items at a buffet set with dozens of scrumptious items - just a matter of taste.

The incredible diversity (using the word in its old, real meaning) of gunzzz and activities with them is a glory of the hobby.

Don't think black powder shooters are proposing black powder revolvers for the SEALs in today's world, or anyone is pushing to replace M-4s with Garands.

Pointless historical taffy yanks over unknowable what-ifs etc are always in order, but like those scrumptious items at the buffet, may be skipped over by those with different tastes.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 09:14 PM (QDnY+)

264 Insom!

Do you need a spanking?

Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 09:14 PM (PkVlr)

265 257 Ricky Jay has passed away.
Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 09:11 PM (miE9U)

I saw him do a talk/performance at a dinner my company was invited to several jobs ago.

Posted by: josephistan at November 25, 2018 09:14 PM (Izzlo)

266 Posted by: GnuBreed at November 25, 2018 09:12 PM (Z4rgH)
-----
Wasn't Iver Johnson one of the brands sold by Sears or Wards years ago?

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 09:15 PM (MVjcR)

267 Problem with diagnosing low left is I've induced it with limp wrist, over trigger, and anticipating the shot. My first remedy would be to tighten my grip, then coach myself to stay with front site for follow through, after that my trigger pull.
Posted by: Terribletroy at November 25, 2018 09:07 PM (LjbFx)

The RSOs at the local indoor range told me to do the penny drill to address a bucking/flinching tendency with handguns. I can't tell how effective it is because I got distracted by something shiny, but it's supposed to be good for addressing any follow-through related problems.

Unload and verify the pistol safe, take aim at a point on the wall in a safe direction, and rest a penny across the front sight. Squeeze the trigger, keeping the sights aligned on the 'target'. Recover the penny, re-cock the weapon, repeat. The point is to do the aim/squeeze/click/release without the penny falling from the front sight.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 25, 2018 09:15 PM (t+qrx)

268 And NZ Frank, a very interesting part of the buffet is the stuff you bring to the table, on various topics, so please put out your dishes.

Time and $ and other things mean I love to read about all the aspects of gunnzzz, even though I'll never own/use 90% of what I read about.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 09:16 PM (QDnY+)

269 I bet it wasn't shut down by Gun Grabbers, but by Tree-Huggers worried about lead and clay polluting the lake.
Posted by: Surfperch, Making Observations

Aren't they usually the same people?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 25, 2018 09:06 PM (aKsyK)

It only goes one way; most Tree Huggers are anti-gun but, there are a lot of Gun Grabbers who are rather apathetic about "Green" Issues.

Posted by: Surfperch, Making Observations at November 25, 2018 09:16 PM (pkeCj)

270 And white is a color.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 25, 2018 08:06 PM (xJa6I)

I've never considered myself white.

White is the color of plain paper. or clouds.

I'm a light beige. (ecru?)

And I've never agreed on being called 'white'. Anyone who calls me that should be prepared for some push back.

It's only used by racists in my experienced. Same as with 'Black'.

There's people and then there's trash.

Posted by: jakee308 at November 25, 2018 09:17 PM (INwZn)

271 256 252 Le sigh. As I have posted before for my apathy for the M1 Garand, I don't think I will last long here if I let you know what I think about 03 's. ( Not very much I am afraid )
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 09:09 PM (bgJ0E)
------
That's OK. I like them enough for both of us.
Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 09:10 PM (JcWux)

Awesome! Believe in what you want to. To be fair I ask opinion on my beloved but imperfect L1A1. THAT Rifle or Gods own gun.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 09:17 PM (bgJ0E)

272 264 Insom!

Do you need a spanking?
Posted by: nurse ratched at November 25, 2018 09:14 PM (PkVlr)

*raises other eyebrow*

Posted by: Insomniac at November 25, 2018 09:17 PM (NWiLs)

273 It's double action only, and it has a firing pin safety I hadn't seen before. You can carry 5 rounds in it, but only if you partially pull the hammer back first, which locks the firing pin out and away from the top chamber. He was carrying it without knowing that detail. That's Heh two.
----------

Iver Johnson made a big deal (rightfully) about the hammer block. Their ad said "Hammer The Hammer"

An ad: http://tinyurl.com/y8t5aatx

Posted by: Hammer, Mike the Hammer at November 25, 2018 09:18 PM (xSo9G)

274 I've just been reading the 'to be, or not to be a college student' thread, and just had to say....

You don't need to go to college to love Shakespeare or understand Faulkner. All I needed was the local library and life experience.

I was reading and memorizing Shakespeare when I was 14, on my own, and as for Faulkner...he's fucked up and his shit is all retarded.
Same goes for Hemingway. And Salinger. And Fitzgerald. I'd made my way to the 'modern classics' by 16.
They're tales told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

True understanding of literature comes with life experience: I could appreciate Shakespeare as a teen and young adult but it took falling in love and experiencing tragic loss to understand him. And the Bible. And Blaise Pascal, and Alexander King, and Simone Weil.
And the poetry of T.S. Eliot and Ranier Maria Rilke and Gerard Manley Hopkins.

I decided, in 1998, not to go to a 4 year college because I didn't want to pay my hard-earned money to regurgitate leftist BS for a grade.
I took classes at the local community college in the field I went to work in, kept up a 4.0 while working to support myself, got married, had kids, and now I homeschool them.
They'll quote Shakespeare in one breath and A.A. Milne in the next.

In this day and age there's no excuse for being ignorant: anyone can learn virtually anything with the stroke of a key, and can own a library comprised of thousands of great books, many of them copyright-free on Amazon or Project Gutenberg.

There's lots of fantastic free/cheap courses online, on virtually any topic you can imagine. I watch Great Courses lectures on Greek and Roman history while I wash the dishes, propping my phone up on the windowsill.

/end rant

Posted by: Brunette the 'Ette at November 25, 2018 09:19 PM (adsVM)

275 Iver Johnson was a gun manufacturer of long standing. They also made bicycles. Sear may have sold their stuff, but they were independent of Sears.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 25, 2018 09:19 PM (fDU8w)

276 I do love frankenbuild AR15's. Lego for adults.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 09:19 PM (bgJ0E)

277 275 Iver Johnson was a gun manufacturer of long standing. They also made bicycles. Sear may have sold their stuff, but they were independent of Sears.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 25, 2018 09:19 PM (fDU8w)
------
I may be confusing them with another manufacturer, but I thought they were one available thru the catalogs. Different times, for sure!

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 09:21 PM (MVjcR)

278 Josephistan, was Ricky Jay friendly?

He seemed to me the type who was very intelligent, witty and smart, but who could also be EXTREMELY cranky and difficult sometimes.

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 09:21 PM (miE9U)

279 Awesome! Believe in what you want to. To be fair I ask opinion on my beloved but imperfect L1A1. THAT Rifle or Gods own gun.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 09:17 PM

The SLR? Great rifle. Different era/generation to the garand and springfield though.

Posted by: otho at November 25, 2018 09:21 PM (LkFnL)

280 That gun has a knife on it and is therefor AN ASSAULT Weapon!!!!Eleventy!!!!

BAN IT!!!!!

Posted by: Sen. Fiendsteen at November 25, 2018 09:22 PM (+YOgb)

281

Weasle, give us your two cents on barrel break in and conditioning on new not chrome-lined match barrel bolt guns...

Posted by: In Vino Veritits at November 25, 2018 09:23 PM (nEjGc)

282 sounds like the dime washer drill at Ft Benning, back when i was young and had a future...

balance a small washer on the barrel, just back of the front sight, whilst in the prone unsupported position, then squeeze the trigger.

if the washer falls off, you're doing it wrong.

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 25, 2018 09:23 PM (xPNLF)

283 SLR?

I'm more partial to the DSLRs, particularly Nikon, Lumix and Canon :-)

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 25, 2018 09:24 PM (miE9U)

284 Anyone who calls me that should be prepared for some push back.

It's only used by racists in my experienced. Same as with 'Black'.

There's people and then there's trash.
Posted by: jakee308 at November 25, 2018 09:17 PM (INwZn)

------

Yeah... I have more in common with a black American than a German. None of this makes sense.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 25, 2018 09:24 PM (5aX2M)

285 @hog

That is a good trigger drill especially for a DA revolver. Some folks will do it with a empty cartridge standing up on the back strap.

Posted by: Terribletroy at November 25, 2018 09:24 PM (LjbFx)

286 Speaking of FALs, I discovered today that one of the ladies in my church, who has a pronounced British accent, is not British but Rhodesian. She married an American, so she is in the US now, but the rest of her family is in South Africa, currently living in fear of having their property seized and/or being slaughtered by the local SJWs...She said it wouldn't be so bad if they just killed you quickly, but they don't do things quickly...

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 25, 2018 09:27 PM (bZ7mE)

287 281

Weasle, give us your two cents on barrel break in and conditioning on new not chrome-lined match barrel bolt guns...
Posted by: In Vino Veritits at November 25, 2018 09:23 PM (nEjGc)
------
My personal opinion is the whole thing is overrated. Depending on caliber, my match barrels only go about 800 rounds so I can not afford a lengthy break-in process. I usually shoot a new barrel 2 or 3 rounds, brush out the barrel, and repeat for a total of 10 or 12 rounds. And that's it. I'd do the exact same thing for a mass production rifle. There are a million opinions for and against, but that has always worked for me.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 09:27 PM (MVjcR)

288 Wasn't Iver Johnson one of the brands sold by Sears or Wards years ago?

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 09:15 PM (MVjcR)

Yes, carried by Sears. They also were used by quite a few police departments.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 25, 2018 09:27 PM (Z4rgH)

289 An ad: http://tinyurl.com/y8t5aatx
Posted by: Hammer, Mike the Hammer at November 25, 2018 09:18 PM (xSo9G)

That ad includes the address of the company's London Office, and to believe that the very guns Iver Johnson made would be illegal there today. In fact, it would be almost impossible for any gunsmith to open as much as an Office in London without facing a mountain of Red Tape and a constant barrage of Protestors and Hate Mail.

How times have changed.

Posted by: Surfperch, Making Observations at November 25, 2018 09:27 PM (pkeCj)

290 To be fair I ask opinion on my beloved but imperfect L1A1. THAT Rifle or Gods own gun.
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2
-----

Has there ever been a rifle issued in so many variants?

Posted by: Hammer, Mike the Hammer at November 25, 2018 09:28 PM (xSo9G)

291 2
Tremendous sales on optics at Europtic and Optic Planet for a few more hours ladies and germs... GET SOME!

Posted by: In Vino Veritits at November 25, 2018 07:08 PM (UFLLM)

Thanks for the tips! I didn't buy any optics at those sites, this time, but I got an AR-15 pistol brace by SB Tactical, at a terrific sale price, at OpticsPlanet.

SWFA also has Black Friday sale prices on many optics, thru Nov, 30.

Posted by: Gref at November 25, 2018 09:28 PM (AMIL/)

292 I used to love to stay at an Iver Johnson's. They always had a pool and the beds had that Magic Fingers doohickey. Ah, good times.

Posted by: Smokin' Uncle Joe Biden at November 25, 2018 09:30 PM (Tyii7)

293 Well since some of you asked, The reason why I am not thrilled about 03's is simple, they are IMHO very rough and compared to a lot of Mauser variations , poorly finished. Not saying that they won't shoot with a good barrel and bullets but putting aside the fact that they are a military rifle and a lot on the market are WWII urgent refinished rifles and are literally rough. I just do not care much for the look or feel. I have actually shot several different ones and found the stock design not to fit me too well and found accuracy average to say the least. My Arisaka Type 38 rifles seem to be more accurate.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 09:30 PM (bgJ0E)

294

Iver Johnson is right!

Posted by: Olsen Johnson at November 25, 2018 09:30 PM (aKsyK)

295 A 586/686 is an L-Frame, not an N-Frame.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at November 25, 2018 09:31 PM (DMUuz)

296
Has there ever been a rifle issued in so many variants?

Posted by: Hammer, Mike the Hammer at November 25, 2018 09:28 PM (xSo9G)

There are only two variants of Gods Own Rifle, the Royal Small Arms Factory (RSAF) and the Lithgow ones. Everything else is Eurotrash and not fit for a proper person to handle.....

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 09:37 PM (bgJ0E)

297 I want to build a AR15 in 5.56 with a 11.5 Barrell. I need it to run with / without a can. I know I need a adjustable gas block but the real question comes down to twist rate. Anticipate rounds to be anywhere from 55 grain to 77 grain. So, 1:7 or 1:9?

Posted by: Terribletroy at November 25, 2018 09:37 PM (LjbFx)

298 if you need to vary so much,comprimise, use a 1:8 twist. Your trigger, your optic and you are as important.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 09:39 PM (bgJ0E)

299 So, 1:7 or 1:9?

1:7

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 25, 2018 09:40 PM (bZ7mE)

300 >That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

Yes! In fact, I learned something.
went to a range where you can rent guns. I rented an obscure gun you probably never heard of that I've never shot before - a Glock 17.

Ohhhh, I shot real good groups with it! Then I tried a Glock 21 to compare. Decent groups but I was shooting notably better with the 17.

Well ok then. I think I'll buy a Glock 17!

Posted by: Arthur G Kimes at November 25, 2018 09:41 PM (mI1ez)

301 Iver Johnson was the preferred weapon of old time street toughs. All the old coppers had stories about the infamous Owl Head .32.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at November 25, 2018 09:41 PM (bML9A)

302 Looking for a recommendation for a 3rd handgun. .... or a 9MM

Not much of a recommendation, but I am really surprised at the Grand Power 9mm. The low height of the rotating barrel really reduce the felt recoil.

Was out on a shoot fest with the relatives, it by far got the most action - especially among the females.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at November 25, 2018 09:41 PM (lD3vL)

303 That is the question is good stuff.

Posted by: Cosmic Charlie at November 25, 2018 09:42 PM (PUmDY)

304 Before my trip finally had a chance to advise someone at my indoor range that their RSOs needed to upgrade their cease-fire procedures (for their own safety).

In the two cease-fires I witnessed, the RSOs had everyone stop shooting, put down their guns, and step back. However they didn't check the line to ensure all guns were magazines out/actions open/cylinders out for revolvers. Would take 1 minute at this range (15 lanes).

At a place with lots of rental/first-time shooters, checking every box should be the minimum.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 09:43 PM (QDnY+)

305 Iver Johnson is right!
Posted by: Olsen Johnson at November 25, 2018 09:30 PM (aKsyK)

Olsen Johnson is right about Iver Johnson being right!

Posted by: M1941 Johnson at November 25, 2018 09:43 PM (t+qrx)

306 While it's not a gun per say, it is an old dog learning new tricks...

https://youtu.be/NG89Zh9qQrQ

The old gal's still got it...

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 25, 2018 09:43 PM (W+kMI)

307 Everything else is Eurotrash and not fit for a proper person to handle.....
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2
------------

Say, do you happen to know a fellow named 'Palpatine'?

Posted by: Hammer, Mike the Hammer at November 25, 2018 09:43 PM (CDGwz)

308 NZFrank withanM2

NZ, I have an LE No 4 Mk1* from Canada 1942 which was shipped to NZ and given NZ markings, It came back to Canada Post War and in the 60's was converted to DCRA standards with a 7.62 barrel. I've fitted it with a JH Parker TZ24/7 sight and it is a tack driver.

Posted by: Panhandler at November 25, 2018 09:43 PM (ibCu/)

309 Posted by: Terribletroy at November 25, 2018 09:37 PM (LjbFx)
--------
I think with the factors you mention, shorter barrel and a wide range in bullet weights, you're going to be looking at a lot of compromises. I'm guessing something in the 1:8 to 1:8.5 range. Hopefully someone else will chime in.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 09:43 PM (MVjcR)

310 Ohhhh, I shot real good groups with it! Then I tried a Glock 21 to compare. Decent groups but I was shooting notably better with the 17.

Well ok then. I think I'll buy a Glock 17!
Posted by: Arthur G Kimes at November 25, 2018 09:41 PM (mI1ez)

--------------

Glock 17 is a very good gun, although I like the fit of the XDM9 in my hand better.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at November 25, 2018 09:45 PM (ffYR/)

311 Iver Johnson was the preferred weapon of old time street toughs. All the old coppers had stories about the infamous Owl Head .32.
Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade
------

My grandmother had one. Nickle plated. .32 Short.

Posted by: Hammer, Mike the Hammer at November 25, 2018 09:45 PM (CDGwz)

312 Cracker Eurotrash Girl is a great song

Posted by: Cosmic Charlie at November 25, 2018 09:46 PM (PUmDY)

313 In the two cease-fires I witnessed, the RSOs had everyone stop shooting, put down their guns, and step back. However they didn't check the line to ensure all guns were magazines out/actions open/cylinders out for revolvers. Would take 1 minute at this range (15 lanes).

At a place with lots of rental/first-time shooters, checking every box should be the minimum.
Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 09:43 PM (QDnY+)

-----------

The range I used to go to made everybody use chamber flags for all guns on the bench when the range was called cold.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at November 25, 2018 09:48 PM (ffYR/)

314 Iver Johnson was the preferred weapon of old time street toughs. All the old coppers had stories about the infamous Owl Head .32.
Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade
--------

Well, the ad at 297 says "$6.95"

Posted by: Hammer, Mike the Hammer at November 25, 2018 09:48 PM (CDGwz)

315 A casual suggestion (meaning I just thought of it) for some future gun thread: Do any of the Horde make their own gear? Traditional muzzleloaders sometime make their own accessories. It might be as simple as an altoids tin to hold patches or small parts or as ornate as an engraved powder horn. Do modern shooters do anything similar and, if so, what?

Just a thought.

Posted by: JTB at November 25, 2018 09:48 PM (758Rh)

316 Posted by: JTB at November 25, 2018 09:48 PM (758Rh)
-----
Good idea. Thanks JTB.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 09:50 PM (MVjcR)

317 It will probably only be fed 55gr but I would like it to eat anything. It seems to be the can that boogers things up. Reportedly the 1:9 is too slow and introduces the potential for the round yawing a baffle in short barrels. But I was reading that from a forum and info was 6yrs old and not definitive.

Posted by: Terribletroy at November 25, 2018 09:50 PM (LjbFx)

318 Calm, I have an XD45 (similar grip to XD9 which I gave away), and actually like feel of Glocks better. I have gorilla hands by the way.

Posted by: Eromero at November 25, 2018 09:51 PM (zLDYs)

319 Controversy on whether Sgt York used the 1993 Springfield or Enfield. His family said the 1903 even though his entire company was supposedly issued Enfields. His statue in TN has him holding the 1903. ( didn't read the comments yet so don't know if already discussed)

Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at November 25, 2018 09:51 PM (2DOZq)

320 Even though I am a .30 cal buy, I have ordered a stripped Fostech magnesium upper and lower receiver set for a build over the next few months. I want to build an ultralight AR to try to get Mrs928 interested in riflery. She's not fond of my heavy rifles at all.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at November 25, 2018 09:52 PM (WAJor)

321 A blackjack, straight razor and an Owl Head .32 and you were ready for pimping, mugging or rolling the bones in the local crap game.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at November 25, 2018 09:52 PM (bML9A)

322
Le sigh. As I have posted before for my apathy for the M1 Garand, I
don't think I will last long here if I let you know what I think about
03 's. ( Not very much I am afraid )

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 09:09 PM (bgJ0E)

---
Enfield fan?

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 25, 2018 09:52 PM (xPNLF)

323 Calm Mentor, mandatory chamber flags is a good idea. Some of us at the outdoor range where I'm an RO have talked about this. The range sells the yellow CMP ones for $1 or something, but they're not mandatory.

We do very thorough, if quick, chamber checks on all gunzzz on the benches before every cease fire, so same-same, but flags just add to the confidence level (some guys have semis that can't hold the bolt open, so they stick in spent cartridges to hold them - flags take care of that issue too).

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 09:53 PM (QDnY+)

324 NZ, I have an LE No 4 Mk1* from Canada 1942 which was shipped to NZ and given NZ markings, It came back to Canada Post War and in the 60's was converted to DCRA standards with a 7.62 barrel. I've fitted it with a JH Parker TZ24/7 sight and it is a tack driver.
Posted by: Panhandler at November 25, 2018 09:43 PM (ibCu/)
Snap, I have an identical rifle except it has an AJP sight. Used to belong to an NZ NRA winner. Was sold to me at the range on day by the next owner in line for $100 as he claimed it would not group and he was going to wrap it around a tree. I couldn't run to him fast enough. Shoots longs (1000mtrs) like a dream.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 09:53 PM (bgJ0E)

325 State Party Boss accused of sexual harassment and assault? Front page news, right? Believe her, right?

But this is California! The GOP boss must be guilty!

Wrong, see bottom of Page A21. It's the DemDick, uh Eric.

https://tinyurl.com/DemDick

Posted by: scottst at November 25, 2018 09:54 PM (6OESO)

326 Back in the 80's in the heart of Chicago, the Park District had a skeet / trap range right on the lakefront north of Diversey.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at November 25, 2018 08:57 PM (tSXzq)

I remember it - right along Lake Shore Drive. Great memories.

Posted by: LGoPs at November 25, 2018 09:55 PM (znVd2)

327 OT: Twitter starting to ban more and more non-racist/authoritarian people, as I predicted, for no good reason. Since America voted for idiocy, racism, and stagnation earlier this month, it's going to get it. Lots of it.

And with the House held by the vermin, nothing can happen, now. Unless there are regulatory tricks up somebody's sleeve.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 09:56 PM (QDnY+)

328 nood

Posted by: Lord Percy's Cracked Chamber Pot at November 25, 2018 09:57 PM (jHv3P)

329 With my Radical Firearms AR-15 (built a couple of miles away in Stafford TX) I find that Hornady Frontier M193 is by far the most accurate M193 I have ever shot. The accuracy spec on M193 works out to about 3 moa but the Hornady M193 is shooting about 1.75 moa out of my rifle. I have talked to other people who have had the same experience with their AR-15s.
Now if I could just find some 62 grain that would shoot better than a shotgun pattern...

Posted by: An Observation at November 25, 2018 09:57 PM (TPKib)

330 I last heard 7 sea lions in the last week. They wash up on the beach with multiple gsw
Posted by: nurse ratched
Mebbe the sea lions joined a gang.

Posted by: JT at November 25, 2018 09:58 PM (kC/cK)

331 OK! That's it for this week. THANK YOU everyone for stopping by and for making this fun! I'll stick around for a bit if anyone cares to hang out.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 09:59 PM (MVjcR)

332 Back in the 80's in the heart of Chicago, the Park District had a skeet / trap range right on the lakefront north of Diversey.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at November 25, 2018 08:57 PM (tSXzq)

I remember it - right along Lake Shore Drive. Great memories.

Posted by: LGoPs at November 25, 2018 09:55 PM (znVd2)

---------------

I grew up in a suburb that bodered Chicago. In the late 60s to 70s, fox hunting was encouraged because they had a population problem. No permit, no nothing required in those saner times. Just take your rifle or shotgun out to the woods.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at November 25, 2018 09:59 PM (ffYR/)

333 Thanks Weasel. Always an enjoyable way to spend a Sunday evening.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at November 25, 2018 10:00 PM (qc+VF)

334 And that was America not that long ago.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 25, 2018 08:48 PM (QDnY+)

When I was 9 we lived a couple of blocks from Wrigley Field. Mom would pack me a lunch and I'd go to the game. And I'd be safe. That too was America, not that long ago.

Posted by: LGoPs at November 25, 2018 10:00 PM (znVd2)

335 Rhomboid , when I run our small service rifle shoots, we encourage shooters not to use flags especially in AR type rifles as I have seen enough of them break off the longer part and be left in the chamber ready to cause a barrel obstruction or a FTF stoppage. Mag off and working parts to the rear or bolt open and to the rear after inspection of chamber seems to work OK with good range discipline. Never discount for the idiot though.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 10:00 PM (bgJ0E)

336 What could possibly go wong:

@WashTimes 9m

Leap of science and ethics: China claims first gene-edited babies
https://t.co/z1zIbV6Fxk

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 25, 2018 10:01 PM (pnMCv)

337 You're most welcome BtB. Glad you enjoy it.

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 10:01 PM (MVjcR)

338 Thanks Weasel , I always seem to arrive too late to the party.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 10:02 PM (bgJ0E)

339 Know nothing about guns

The end with the hole in it goes towards the thing you are trying to shoot.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 25, 2018 09:07 PM (bZ7mE)

Point the hole only at something you want to kill or a target. Sometimes those being the same thing.

Posted by: Braenyard at November 25, 2018 10:03 PM (+bKWx)

340 Out of my AR the most accurate 55 grain round I have found is the Hornady 223 hollow pt boat tail - which shoots about 1.4 moa.

Posted by: An Observation at November 25, 2018 10:03 PM (TPKib)

341 274
/end rant
Posted by: Brunette the 'Ette at November 25, 2018 09:19 PM (adsVM)

I think I'm in love.

Posted by: rickl at November 25, 2018 10:05 PM (sdi6R)

342 Out of my AR the most accurate 55 grain round I have found is the Hornady 223 hollow pt boat tail - which shoots about 1.4 moa.
Posted by: An Observation at November 25, 2018 10:03 PM (TPKib)

I find stolen M262 WITH 7gn Matchkings in 1.9 twist heavy barrels gives me sub MOA.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 10:05 PM (bgJ0E)

343 Err 77gn not 7 gn.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 10:06 PM (bgJ0E)

344 Rhomboid , when I run our small service rifle shoots, we encourage shooters not to use flags especially in AR type rifles as I have seen enough of them break off the longer part and be left in the chamber ready to cause a barrel obstruction or a FTF stoppage.

I use one that has been broken off about half-way. I slotted the base off the flag enough to push a .45 case over the rear. That prevents the possibility of hitting the bolt release and getting the flag jammed up between the BCG and the charging handle. Sorry if that description is not very clear. I'll try to post a pic in next week's thread.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at November 25, 2018 10:06 PM (qc+VF)

345 338 Thanks Weasel , I always seem to arrive too late to the party.
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at November 25, 2018 10:02 PM (bgJ0E)
-------
Glad you can stop by, NZFrank. Thanks!

Posted by: Weasel at November 25, 2018 10:07 PM (MVjcR)

346 I find stolen M262 WITH 7gn Matchkings in 1.9 twist heavy barrels gives me sub MOA.
Gorilla 77gr MKs shoot right at one moa in my 1 in 7 twist rifle, but that is expensive ammo.

Posted by: An Observation at November 25, 2018 10:09 PM (TPKib)

347 Likewise on the 03 Springfield. I've got one built in 1905 as a 30-03, then rebarreled the next year. When I got it the barrel was a SA dated 1942. I have a new-in-tube 1944 Remington 2-groove barrel that is getting installed once I find a gunsmith who understands how hard and easy to crack the side-rails are on these receivers...

Posted by: Bruce Abbott at November 26, 2018 05:01 AM (Caal8)

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