Saturday Evening Movie Thread 10-20-2018 [Hosted By: TheJamesMadison]

We Come to It At Last

And here we are. Ten months ago, I wrote a post about The Passion of Joan of Arc the first film, chronologically, in my personal Top Ten list. Nine posts, and nine months, later, we come to the final move in that list, The Lord of the Rings.

Before I jump into my thoughts on the film, let me clarify. The Lord of the Rings was released in three parts in three successive years from 2001 to 2003. Principle photography occurred concurrently for the entire project (the final scene at the Grey Havens was filmed on week two). Editing and the rest of postproduction happened one year after another, along with extra filming. In essence, The Lord of the Rings is a single project that flows seamlessly from one part to the next. It is one film.

I also view the Extended Editions of each part to be the authoritative version of the film. So, when I talk about The Lord of the Rings, I mean the Extended Editions of The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, and The Return of the King, three volumes to one book.

With that out of the way, let's talk about it!

Three Points

Peter Jackson's film is such a large achievement, it's hard to drill down and talk about my love for the film without turning this into a novella length love fest. So, I've decided to focus on three elements: character, the visual design, and the sound design.

Upon my most recent viewing of the film, I realized how much of it was made up of scenes whose primary focus was to build and maintain character. There are also roughly twenty characters that could be consider prominent, so I have brought the focus down to my two favorites.

The visual design is large. From special effects to props to set design to overall visual aesthetics, there was a lot that went into creating Middle Earth for the silver screen.

The audio design is nearly as large, and perhaps the unsung hero of the film overall. Howard Shore's musical score is well known, but there are particular sound choices that Jackson made that really heighten the experience.

Character

A great visual and audio design is nothing if not backed by a good story (as George Lucas might say, a special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing), and character is where this movie shines the most. As I said earlier, there are roughly twenty characters that one could consider prominent from Frodo, Gandalf, and Aragorn to Denethor, Faramir, and Eomer. The two most successful characters, those that I want to write about, are Eowyn and Samwise Gamgee.

Eowyn, Shieldmaiden of Rohan

When we first meet Eowyn in the second part of the film, she's a woman alone. Orphaned as a child, she was raised by her uncle, Theoden, King of Rohan, along with her brother, Eomer, but Theoden is an absent man. Under the spell of the wizard Saruman, Theoden barely reacts when Eowyn tells him that his son has died. The only attentions she receives are from Grima Wormtongue, the snakelike advisor to Theoden, who offers her words of comfort, but he's such a repulsive creature that she can see right through him, especially after he has exiled her brother.

Enter Aragorn, heir of Isildur and true king of Gondor. He arrives at Edoras, her home atop the hill, and offers his help. She is immediately smitten with him. He, though, loves another woman far away, and does not return her affections. So, at this point, Eowyn's father figure is absent. Her brother is exiled. Her love does not love her back. She is a woman of unfulfilled and unreturned affection.

On top of that, after Theoden is freed from the spell that has hobbled him and the nation retreats to the fortress of Helms Deep, Eowyn is not allowed a sword to prove herself in battle, as she wishes. Instead, she'd given the task of looking after the women and children in the caves. She wants to stand with her kin, with her uncle and king to face the evil bearing down on her country. She can fight, but no one will allow it.

What does she do? In an act of love, she defies the wishes of her king. When Rohan moves to respond to Gondor's call for aid, she is to remain with the women and children again, but resigned to her fate to be left behind one final time, she puts on the armor of a rider of Rohan, picks up Merry, who was cast aside in the same way, and rides with the cavalry into battle. It's not out of a need for glory or honor that she disobeys her king, but an act of pure love. "Courage Merry. Courage for our friends," she says as they line up for their charge.

And then this is where the movie gets me. I've seen this movie a couple of dozen times, and still, literally every time I watch this, I choke up. The Witch-King of Angmar has flown into the midst of battle, grabbed Theoden and his horse, casting them aside and breaking the king's body. "Feat on his flesh," the Witch-King orders his fell beast, and just before the giant winged creature can do so, Eowyn throws herself between her uncle and this terrifying creature of evil, shouting, "I will kill you if you touch him."

There seems to be no hope. Why should there be? A single soldier standing up against the general of the Dark Lord's army. But none of that concerns Eowyn. Her uncle has been threatened, and she is going to do what she has to in order to help him. Here's what follows:

Her journey is one of the largest single reasons I love this movie. Eowyn is such a magnificent character.

Samwise the Brave

When the movie first starts, it's obvious that the main character is Frodo Baggins. He's the one with the Ring. He's the one who decides to take the journey. He's the one who volunteers to take the Ring to Mount Doom. He's the character driving the action.

And then, halfway through the second part, we stop seeing things through Frodo's eyes. Sam, his trusty servant who has stayed with Frodo since the beginning, is mistrustful of the creature Gollum, who is leading them into Mordor. Frodo doesn't like how Sam insults Gollum all of the time and confronts him about it. Sam justifies himself, voicing very real concerns about the creature, but Frodo simply snaps at him. Sam can't understand what Gollum is going through, and, by extension, neither can the audience. It is at that moment that the perspective of the story changes from Frodo to Sam, from the more traditional hero to the Shire gardener who's only gone along in order to protect his master.

Sam himself, though, never really changes. He's as dedicated to Frodo at the beginning of the movie as he is at the end. That seems to go against every screenwriting rule against characterization I've ever read. There must be arcs, but Sam doesn't really have one. The journey doesn't really change him. He doesn't go from passive to active. He doesn't go from cowardly to fearless.

What his journey allows for him is to demonstrate his strength to the utmost. The moment that he takes that one last step that takes him the furthest from home he's ever been in the first part, is equally as brave as when Sam charges into Cirith Ungol alone in search of Frodo. That exploration of Sam's strength, brought on by his affection for Frodo, and how far he's willing to go, is one of the greatest sources of emotional involvement in the film. After all they pair have been through, from Sam saying that of course Frodo was going to Mordor alone and Sam was going with him to Sam rescuing Frodo from the orc tower in Mordor, when Sam picks Frodo up off the ground to carry him the last length to Mount Doom it's the culmination of his journey and the demonstration of how far he'll go.

That doesn't feel like an arc to me. That feels like a character discovering how strong he is already, but not really changing in the process. And yet, I find it more involving than most character arcs, perhaps because I find Sam's journey more believable.

Visual Design

What an absolute joy it is to simply look at the world of Middle Earth. From the greens of The Shire, to the browns and yellows of Rohan, and the whites and grays of Gondor, the world in which this story takes place is a marvel to witness, but what sells the films' visual flair is the fact that it never goes too far with the fantasy elements. There's a grounded reality that the film never breaks (except perhaps with its depiction of ghosts, which should feel otherworldly). It goes beyond the idea of a lived-in universe, but touches on the basic philosophies that Jackson and his team followed when creating everything.

At the beginning of pre-production, Jackson had a meeting with his department heads including Richard Taylor where he told them that he wanted them to create a film that felt like it had been dug up from the past. Everything needed to feel unique across cultures and with a sense of history. Taylor adopted that conceit wholeheartedly and operated under the idea that cultures were built on details on top of details.

Using a huge team, they created a very broad base from elves to dwarves to orcs and several cultures of men that all look and feel different. There's never any question that when a camera pans over Edoras that we are looking at anything other than part of Rohan. When we first see Osgiliath, we know that it's part of Gondor. Even the two elf kingdoms we see feel completely distinct from each other.

My favorite element, though, was the use of miniatures. The miniatures the team created for the film were gigantic. The Argonath, pair of large stone statues in the shapes of the kings of Gondor's past flanking the River Anduin stood about eight feet tall in real life. That allowed the team to get such exquisite amounts of detail on a real object to put in front of a camera. The detail of how the bottom halves of the statues look like they're cut straight from the rock, but the top halves look like they were built up from stones cut like from a quarry just add a magnificent sense of realism to the look of the film while maintaining the sense of fantasy at the same time.

Sound Design

I love Howard Shore's score. Much like the visual design, the music carries distinctive themes across the different cultures of Middle-Earth. And, thanks to the crazy gamble New Line made in doing the entire project at once, Shore was able to begin working themes into the first part of the film that wouldn't develop fully until the third. If you listen carefully to a couple of the scenes in the first half of the part, you can hear Gondor's theme, although it doesn't take center stage until Pippin and Gandalf ride up to Minas Tirith in the third part.

My favorite theme is that of Rohan:

It's a melancholy piece of music that recalls glory days long lost when we first hear it, but Shore develops it more and more through the rest of the film from its introduction until its most glorious rendition when Rohan rides to Gondor's aid on the Fields of Pelennor:

But why I wanted to focus on sound design wasn't the music, but in particular with the Ring itself. I've always known it because it's obvious in the movie, but the most recent viewing of the movie sold to me the importance of actually giving the Ring a voice. At moments when the Ring is the center focus, it actually speaks in whispers on the soundtrack. It's goading the characters into following its will, trying to get its way back to its original master.

There's so much more than that, though. The screams of the Nazgul sell the idea, very convincingly in my view, of the absolute terror that the nine Ringwraiths strike into the hearts of men. I'm convinced, that if one of those towering figures, wrapped in black clothes and possibly riding a giant fell beast in the air were to scream at me, I'd run for cover with no concern for anything other than my own safety.

Let's Wrap This Up

Okay, this is already absurdly long, so I apologize. However, I have a little more I want to say.

There's an epic sweep to this film that captures the best elements of adventure stories. It has a marvelous cast of characters. It looks and sounds fantastic from beginning to end. There's real emotion in the 11-hour journey.

The movie made a boatload of money, and feels like it was a safe bet, but it was far from it. New Line Cinemas was last in a long line of studios that heard Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh's pitch for the film. They were pitching it as a two-movie series when the executive producer at New Line asked, "It's three books. Why not make three films?"

New Line Cinema gave almost $300 million to a New Zealand director whose biggest movie up to that point had been The Frighteners. It doesn't have a single movie star to its name (save Orlando Bloom who became a star because of this movie). Elijah Wood was a child star making the transition to being a grown up. Ian McKellan was a respected Shakespearean who had been trying to break out in Hollywood for a while. Sean Bean was known as the guy who dies all the time. Viggo Mortenson was a nobody. John-Rhyes Davis was a character actor known best for a bit part in two Indiana Jones movies. Billy Boyd? Dominic Monaghan? Bernard Hill? Liv Tyler? Hugo Weaving? All of them were somewhere between "That guy" and nobody.

The Lord of the Rings was one of the biggest gambles that Hollywood every made, and it not only made money, but it ended up being one of the great adventure and fantasy stories that ever hit the silver screen.

Movies of Today

Opening in Theaters:
Halloween

Next in my Netflix Queue:
Billy Budd

Movies I Saw This Week:
Lone Survivor (Netflix Rating 4/5 | Quality Rating 3/4) Poster blurb: "The middle hour is great, but the mawkish first twenty minutes really dragged." [Netflix DVD]
The Missing (Netflix Rating 2/5 | Quality Rating 1.5/4) "I really liked the first 30 minutes or so, and then the mechanical and unimaginative plot completely took over the movie, driving it over a cliff." [Netflix DVD]
Kill the Irishman (Netflix Rating 2/5 | Quality Rating 1.5/4) "Generic and thin mobster movie that brings nothing to the table other than a desire to be Goodfellas in Cleveland." [Netflix Instant]
King of Kings (Netflix Rating 3/5 | Quality Rating 2.5/4) "Jesus is really boring, but Pilot and Barabbas are both great. Too bad they largely disappear from the last third of the film." ["Library"]
The Last Detail (Netflix Rating 5/5 | Quality Rating 3.5/4) "A highly involving story of three navy men dealing with their limited options on life." ["Library"]
Tango & Cash (Netflix Rating 2/5 | Quality Rating 1/4) "Sly is way miscast. The action is nonsensical. The plot is dull." ["Library"]
Citizen Kane (Netflix Rating 5/5 | Quality Rating 4/4) [Rewatch] "A great film that tells the story of a man who is impossible to truly know." [Personal Collection]
Once Upon a Time in the West (Netflix Rating 5/5 | Quality Rating 3.5/4) [Rewatch] "A triumph of style." [Personal Collection]
The Chronicles of Riddick (Netflix Rating 3/5 | Quality Rating 2/4) [Rewatch] "A complete mess of a film, really about three in one, but I enjoy some of the individual parts." [Personal Collection]
Minority Report (Netflix Rating 5/5 | Quality Rating 4/4) [Rewatch] "One of Spielberg's best. A rousing adventure." [Personal Collection]
Spider-Man (Netflix Rating 3/5 | Quality Rating 2.5/4) [Rewatch] "I've never quiet understood the love this movie gets. It's alright." [Personal Collection]
21 Jump Street (Netflix Rating 5/5 | Quality Rating 3.5/4) [Rewatch] "Smart and very funny comedy. Even makes Brie Larson seem appealing." [Personal Collection]

Contact

Email any suggestions or questions to thejamesmadison.aos at symbol gmail dot com.

I've also archived all the old posts here, by request. I'll add new posts a week after they originally post at the HQ.

Please, visit my website.

My first novel, The Battle of Lake Erie: One Young American's Adventure in the War of 1812 is now available for sale in eBook and paperback editions!

Posted by: OregonMuse at 07:35 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Get out the popcorn

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 07:33 PM (T4oHT)

2 I have a love hate with the original trilogy, as a huge fan of the book the movies became more or a abomination as they went on but at least the trilogy is watchable as per the books. After that it's a disaster.

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 07:37 PM (T4oHT)

3 I'll sum up my views quickly:

Cast: Excellent.(Except for Orlando Bloom and Liv Tyler)

Visuals: Stunning.

Following the fooking story: *rages incoherently for the next hour or so, collapses in an exhausted heap, comes to and resumes raging*

bottom line: I fooking hate Peter Jackson.

Posted by: Pug Mahon at October 20, 2018 07:37 PM (iafLg)

4 2nd?

Posted by: Calm Mentor at October 20, 2018 07:37 PM (I16G8)

5 Movie Thread!

Posted by: Surfperch at October 20, 2018 07:38 PM (o4fG0)

6 And talking about this the other week brought 2 clips of the new Das Boot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZrL-JAmhVw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY1X6Z708aA

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 07:38 PM (T4oHT)

7 Citizen Kane (Netflix Rating 5/5 | Quality Rating 4/4) "A great film that tells the story of a man who is impossible to truly know."

Ohhh, I knew who he was. I knew!
**shakes fist**

Posted by: Zombie William Randolph Hearst at October 20, 2018 07:38 PM (786Ro)

8 Watching a strange movie on TCM Slither 1973 with James Caan, Sally Kellerman, Peter Boyle

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 07:41 PM (T4oHT)

9 bottom line: I fooking hate Peter Jackson.
Posted by: Pug Mahon at October 20, 2018 07:37 PM (iafLg)

Maybe so, but I fooking love Howard Shore. The music is absolutely gorgeous.

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader & Contributing Editor, Vanity Fair Magazine at October 20, 2018 07:41 PM (46ksJ)

10 I mean, FFS, how do you omit the Scouring of the Shire? That was pretty much Tolkien's point.

All right. I have to go before I drive this thread into a gawdamn bridge abutment.

Posted by: Pug Mahon at October 20, 2018 07:41 PM (iafLg)

11 I saw "Kill the Irishman," seemed disjointed.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at October 20, 2018 07:41 PM (KP5rU)

12 Haven't read the book, haven't seen the movie. Oh well.

Guess I'd better go find something else to do for the next couple hours.

Posted by: rickl at October 20, 2018 07:42 PM (sdi6R)

13 I haven't been motivated to see this movie since I had to take my kids to it, so I'll sit this out at least until there's some thread drift.

I can throw in one possible further bit for discussion. The Hobbit trilogy. I of course think it's an abomination with Arthur Dent lost in a sea of CGI orcs.

alexthechick thinks it's acceptable if you just consider it Peter Jackson fan-fic unrelated to the book.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at October 20, 2018 07:42 PM (fuK7c)

14 I liked them. I'd last read the books a few years before seeing the movies, and I had no real complaints and thought they put the books on screen better than I'd expectd. It might have been a rare case of living up to reverse hype; I'd read some reviews where fans of the books just absolutely defecated onto the movies from a great height, and they turned out much better than I'd hoped they would.

Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 07:43 PM (y87Qq)

15 10 I mean, FFS, how do you omit the Scouring of the Shire? That was pretty much Tolkien's point.

All right. I have to go before I drive this thread into a gawdamn bridge abutment.

Posted by: Pug Mahon at October 20, 2018 07:41 PM (iafLg)

======

Jackson's ending is better.

The war heroes come home and there's forever a wall between them and their neighbors.

It's sad and beautiful.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 07:44 PM (zZbCU)

16 No offense, but after a trilogy marathon and suffering through 10,000 ends to RoTK and quit reading the book after watching the extended trilogy because Jackson made me hate the effing hobbits, all hobbits.

In books, yeah, saved by the gods is ok but damn, in a 13 hour trilogy it gets old. BTW I actually liked the silmarillion.

Posted by: auscolpyr at October 20, 2018 07:45 PM (oFsfu)

17 I do get sucked into any of the 3 as soon as I find them on. Easily seen them a dozen times each.

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 07:45 PM (T4oHT)

18 Thanks for the thread, TJM. Are you and the family feeling better?

Posted by: Calm Mentor at October 20, 2018 07:46 PM (I16G8)

19 Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 07:44 PM (zZbCU)

I am not kidding. I feel too strongly about this one. Jackson sucks ass.

I'll come back later.

Posted by: Pug Mahon at October 20, 2018 07:47 PM (iafLg)

20 BTW I actually liked the silmarillion.
Posted by: auscolpyr at October 20, 2018 07:45 PM (oFsfu)

I really want to like The Simarillion but it is steadfastly refusing to return my affections.

Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 07:47 PM (y87Qq)

21 14 I liked them. I'd last read the books a few years before seeing the movies, and I had no real complaints and thought they put the books on screen better than I'd expectd. It might have been a rare case of living up to reverse hype; I'd read some reviews where fans of the books just absolutely defecated onto the movies from a great height, and they turned out much better than I'd hoped they would.
Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 07:43 PM (y87Qq)

=======

I read it 5 times in high school, the same time the movies were coming out.

I remember the moment when I realized fully that the movie and the book were two different things.

The Return of the King was a coupleof months away and it was becoming more and more obvious that the spy photo of Saruman impaled on the spike was going to be in the movie (ended up in the extended edition).

"No matter the changes, I'll always have the book."

That allowed me to see the movie as it's own thing.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 07:48 PM (zZbCU)

22 I was disappointed by the LOR movies. Not as good or better than the book and downright annoying in parts.

Posted by: freaked at October 20, 2018 07:48 PM (UdKB7)

23 I really want to like The Simarillion but it is steadfastly refusing to return my affections.
Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 07:47 PM (y87Qq)

I approach it as a history. Something like Game of Thrones, reading the history and listing to the soundtrack is cool. The actual shows hate with the heat of a thousand suns.

Posted by: auscolpyr at October 20, 2018 07:49 PM (oFsfu)

24 I only tried once to get through the Silmarillion right after my first read through of the trilogy. Didn't get far.

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 07:49 PM (T4oHT)

25 18 Thanks for the thread, TJM. Are you and the family feeling better?
Posted by: Calm Mentor at October 20, 2018 07:46 PM (I16G

=======

Thank you for asking.

I came home late last night and Dolley stayed at the hospital until this afternoon. She's asleep while I sort of pay attention to spider man 2.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 07:50 PM (zZbCU)

26
Rob Roy was just on.

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Follow and Lick Me On Fakebook at October 20, 2018 07:50 PM (CmojX)

27 alexthechick thinks it's acceptable if you just consider it Peter Jackson fan-fic unrelated to the book.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at October 20, 2018 07:42 PM (fuK7c)

If you download the "Tolkien edit" of the Hobbit trilogy, which most of the non-Hobbit crap not actually in the book edited out and distilled into a 4-hour movie, it's not bad.

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader & Contributing Editor, Vanity Fair Magazine at October 20, 2018 07:51 PM (46ksJ)

28 'That allowed me to see the movie as it's own thing'

I guess that's the way to look at it. An adaption of the book.

Posted by: freaked at October 20, 2018 07:51 PM (UdKB7)

29 I agree that Lord of the Rings was a truly great movie based on a truly great book. I have two minor differences with one of the things you said and the character of Sam. One, Peter Jackson and company didn't create the Dwarves, Elves, Orcs, etc. They were already created. They had to design them, based on Tolkien's templates, which they did beautifully. Secondly, if there is a weak point in the movie, it is not Sam. It is the actor playing Sam. Sean Astin is not a bad actor. I think he was a little weak for this role. His character will be remembered as the template for all future Sams. But, I felt he indulged in some stereotypical characterizations of Sam. It did not have the seemingly effortless translations of Ian McKellen's Gandalf, Viggo Mortensen's Aragorn, or Sean Bean's Boromir, among other outstanding performances. It may boil down to what I consider the Dick Van Dyke effect. Trying to imitate a British accent when not done convincingly can induce some cringe worthy reactions. Minor points, I agree.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at October 20, 2018 07:52 PM (3sjI6)

30 PRINCIPAL, not principle.

Posted by: Dwayne at October 20, 2018 07:52 PM (Nd2zK)

31
Fill in the blanks:

"Democrats produce ______, Republicans produce ______."
-President Trump

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Follow and Lick Me On Fakebook at October 20, 2018 07:52 PM (CmojX)

32 I'd add another character that makes it great.

Smeagol / Gollum. Especially as portrayed in The Two Towers. Shows he wasn't always Gollum, insanely obsessed/posessed by the Ring. And IIRC there are scene in which the interaction between him and Frodo reveal a small kernel of normalcy and decency he used to have before the Ring began eroding his integrity as human (or whatever species he was before degrading into Gollum ). I found those parts of Two Towers moving.

Posted by: Hands at October 20, 2018 07:52 PM (786Ro)

33 TJM,

Sorry to be cross. I sincerely hope you and your fam are on the mend.

cheers.

Posted by: Pug Mahon at October 20, 2018 07:52 PM (iafLg)

34 Hey TJM! Thanks for another great movie thread.

I think I shared last week, I read at Quora recently that the Beatles wanted in the mid-1960s to produce a Lord Of The Rings Movie... and they even asked Stanley Kubrick to direct it.

It's a good thing it was never made. As I said last week: Stanley would NOT have been a yes man. And as you indicated, the story really does takes three movies to tell well, not just one. (Even a 4-hour long epic probably wouldn't be enough.)

Posted by: qdpsteve at October 20, 2018 07:52 PM (miE9U)

35 Thank you for asking.

I came home late last night and Dolley stayed at the hospital until this afternoon. She's asleep while I sort of pay attention to spider man 2.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 07:50 PM (zZbCU)

--------------------

I'm glad to hear all are back home. Hope you are all 100% soon.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at October 20, 2018 07:53 PM (I16G8)

36 Rob Roy was just on.
Posted by: Soothsayer -- Follow and Lick Me On Fakebook at October 20, 2018 07:50 PM (CmojX)

Tell him I said "hey" if he comes back. Thanks.

Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 07:53 PM (y87Qq)

37 27 alexthechick thinks it's acceptable if you just consider it Peter Jackson fan-fic unrelated to the book.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at October 20, 2018 07:42 PM (fuK7c)

If you download the "Tolkien edit" of the Hobbit trilogy, which most of the non-Hobbit crap not actually in the book edited out and distilled into a 4-hour movie, it's not bad.
Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader & Contributing Editor, Vanity Fair Magazine at October 20, 2018 07:51 PM (46ksJ)

======

I recently rewatched The Hobbit trilogy.

Yes, it's overlong and takes itself too seriously, but I find it to be an entertaining film. It's not something I'd ever binge like I do with The Lord of the Rings.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 07:53 PM (zZbCU)

38 Sam is the real hero, just as Red Buttons' quiet character Mr. Martin is the true hero of 1972 Poseidon Adventure. No joke, he really is.

Posted by: doomed at October 20, 2018 07:54 PM (Jw4ci)

39 the last great epic movie.

edited entirely on apple computers, i think.

my only complaint was that i lost track of the geography of middle earth. it would have been nice if they included a map.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at October 20, 2018 07:54 PM (Pg+x7)

40 28 'That allowed me to see the movie as it's own thing'

I guess that's the way to look at it. An adaption of the book.
Posted by: freaked at October 20, 2018 07:51 PM (UdKB7

======

I like to disassociate source material from adaptations in general.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 07:54 PM (zZbCU)

41 I understand people liking these movies but I am in the camp that it descended from a story about little people (literally and metaphorically) doing the right thing in the face of impossible odds into a damned superhero flick.

=P

Posted by: moviegique at October 20, 2018 07:55 PM (CcUfv)

42 ... "we'll ride over to that place to have the pic battle."
well, how far from this place with the last epic battle is that place?

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at October 20, 2018 07:56 PM (Pg+x7)

43 Never could read LotR because of the stupid crap about hairy hobbit feet. Here's a funny funny parody.

http://www.ealasaid.com/misc/vsd/

The "very secret diaries" from various characters.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at October 20, 2018 07:56 PM (/qEW2)

44 I liked the Fireworks at Bilbo's birthday party ...

the final scene at the Grey Havens was filmed on week two

I did not know this, but having learned it I now understand why I hated the scene so much. Elijah Wood hadn't settled into the role of Frodo yet.

Posted by: Adriane the Movie Critic ... at October 20, 2018 07:56 PM (AoK0a)

45 34 Hey TJM! Thanks for another great movie thread.

I think I shared last week, I read at Quora recently that the Beatles wanted in the mid-1960s to produce a Lord Of The Rings Movie... and they even asked Stanley Kubrick to direct it.

It's a good thing it was never made. As I said last week: Stanley would NOT have been a yes man. And as you indicated, the story really does takes three movies to tell well, not just one. (Even a 4-hour long epic probably wouldn't be enough.)
Posted by: qdpsteve at October 20, 2018 07:52 PM (miE9U)

=======

I want to go to the alternate universe where John Boorman made his Lord of the Rings movie.

It sounds crazy.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 07:56 PM (zZbCU)

46 The only thing I have tried to get out of later movies is more about the dwarves as character development. Unlike the trilogy have only seen them spotting

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 07:57 PM (T4oHT)

47 Jackson lost me in the opening segments when he turned the hobbits into a freak sideshow and comic relief. The filmic antics of Merry and Pippin, all completely fabricated, were ridiculous, a total mockery of Tolkien. At that tear in the fabric of fidelity, I was out.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at October 20, 2018 07:57 PM (H8QX8)

48 TJM, spooky. Cross between Deliverance and Zardoz. :-P

Posted by: qdpsteve at October 20, 2018 07:57 PM (miE9U)

49 Great flick, even if you can't pile rocks that way.

The Witch-King of Angmar

Illustrates the problem of letting the enemy get inside your primary weapons range limit. The Nazgul's great all teeth, claws and shrieking til Eowyn steps inside and Slichtglitch Lizard Sandwich for everyone. Then she does the same thing to Angmar after he buries his flail (who thought a giant chandelier on a stick was a good weapon?) in the ground and gets ankle stabbed by a midget (a fate all too many Morons have suffered). Bang, stabbed right in the face so all the evil implodes.

Posted by: DaveA at October 20, 2018 07:58 PM (FhXTo)

50 Lord of the Rings was fairly well done....

The Hobbit Movies, an abomination, they turned it into a cartoon.

Posted by: Don Quixote, looking for Dulcinea at October 20, 2018 07:58 PM (NgKpN)

51 39 the last great epic movie.

edited entirely on apple computers, i think.

my only complaint was that i lost track of the geography of middle earth. it would have been nice if they included a map.
Posted by: musical jolly chimp at October 20, 2018 07:54 PM (Pg+x7)

======

It shows up twice. Once at the very very beginning, and the second at the halfway point off The Two Towers.

But yeah, if you're unfamiliar with the geography, it's probably not enough.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 07:58 PM (zZbCU)

52 It proves how great Jackson is and the Hobbit proves he can't do the impossible.

Posted by: DaveA at October 20, 2018 07:59 PM (FhXTo)

53 Never watched "Lord of the Rings" I'll have to do so sometime. Is it on Netflix?
Tonight we rewatched the doc "Trump" by The Circus, always a feel good view to watch all those leftists azzholes be wrong about the election!

Posted by: Farmer at October 20, 2018 07:59 PM (yJ1e6)

54 Here's a funny funny parody.
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at October 20, 2018 07:56 PM (/qEW2)

Funniest of all was Doug Kinney's Harvard Lampoon book from the 60's, "Bored of the Rings." A true feat of parody.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at October 20, 2018 07:59 PM (H8QX8)

55 Sorry I have to bring up Stanley ever single movie thread, but...

I was also reading at Quora recently, many people blame Kubrick for the severe mental illness Shelley Duvall is suffering from today, because he was so tough on her during the shoot of The Shining.

I dunno, I kind of think she deserved the treatment Kubrick gave her. I think she thought she could waltz in as a 'movie star' and only do her job half-heartedly (like she had probably done on previous movies)... and Stan would NOT stand for that, which I've also read is part of the reason why he often chose NOT to work with celebrity actors.

I've also heard Stanley had major issues with Ryan O'Neal on Barry Lyndon, and was very tough on him, because Ryan showed up behaving like a star, not a team member.

I know that if I ever get to be a director, I will almost always prefer to work with non-name actors who want to actually do the work, rather than coast on fame.

Posted by: qdpsteve at October 20, 2018 08:00 PM (miE9U)

56 "No matter the changes, I'll always have the book."

That allowed me to see the movie as it's own thing.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 07:48 PM (zZbCU)

Well I don't know if I'd go that far. I do that for the book/movie of Starship Troopers so I can enjoy both as completely different and unrelated works, but I think of the LotR movies as the books, edited mostly for medium and runtime. Yeah, they're missing the Scouring of the Shire and some other stuff, but by that point in the movie you're just ready to leave. There's a lot in the Extended Editions that's fun to watch but I don't fault them a bit for cutting any of it from the release. And the first time someone launches into a tirade about how Tom F****ng Bombadil isn't mincing his way through the theatrical forest, I know that person is not to be trusted and merits close watching.

Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 08:01 PM (y87Qq)

57 My only problem with LOTR--and it's a minor quibble--is that writers used the command "Fire" for archers. The correct command is "Loose."

As I said, it's minor. I love the movie.

Posted by: RS at October 20, 2018 08:01 PM (CNQqJ)

58 LOTR is one of my favorites too.

Posted by: votermom pimping NEW Moron-authored books! at October 20, 2018 08:01 PM (dMvl+)

59 55
I know that if I ever get to be a director, I will almost always prefer to work with non-name actors who want to actually do the work, rather than coast on fame.
Posted by: qdpsteve at October 20, 2018 08:00 PM (miE9U)

======

The tangent actually relates quite well to the final section of the post. No stars in LotR.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 08:02 PM (zZbCU)

60 I read the book too young and didnt like it. I tried watching the movie a few times when the kids were little but I always fell asleep. I never got it. But this analysis /critique makes me want to give it another shot, and I will!

Btw, Sams daughter went to our high school. Shes a beauty and. good actress. Out of college by now, I think.

Posted by: LASue at October 20, 2018 08:02 PM (XROPS)

61 Funniest of all was Doug Kinney's Harvard Lampoon book from the 60's, "Bored of the Rings." A true feat of parody.
Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at October 20, 2018 07:59 PM (H8QX

*delurks*

Totally agree.

*relurks*

Posted by: Pug Mahon at October 20, 2018 08:02 PM (iafLg)

62 Has anybody said it yet? Movie NERDS!

Posted by: Fritz at October 20, 2018 08:03 PM (Z9C5C)

63 Bang, stabbed right in the face so all the evil implodes.
Posted by: DaveA at October 20, 2018 07:58 PM (FhXTo)

I keep all my evil in my face part too.

Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 08:03 PM (y87Qq)

64 TJM, yup. I think it's especially important, if you're making an epic (or THREE of them), to choose actors for their ability, not their 'bankability' and name recognition.

It would have been an even bigger cluster fcuk than Heaven's Gate if halfway through the LoTR shoot, one or more of the actors began behaving like prima donnas.

Posted by: qdpsteve at October 20, 2018 08:03 PM (miE9U)

65 Steve and cold bear - funny stuff on that diary link

The LoTR movies are on enough, and usually all of them in a weekend. They show up on TNT, Sci Fi or other movie channels

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 08:04 PM (T4oHT)

66 Never could read LotR because of the stupid crap about hairy hobbit feet. Here's a funny funny parody.

http://www.ealasaid.com/misc/vsd/

The "very secret diaries" from various characters.
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at October 20, 2018 07:56 PM (/qEW2)

Read Lampoon's Bored of the Rings after I read Lord of the Rings. I was about 14 at the time. I rolled on the floor from laughing. I read it again last year. Some snickers, but no floor rolling. Getting older does that to your sense of humor.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at October 20, 2018 08:04 PM (3sjI6)

67 Btw, Sams daughter went to our high school. Shes a beauty and. good actress. Out of college by now, I think.

Hah. Arwen's half bother and sister went to my kids' Montessori School.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at October 20, 2018 08:04 PM (fuK7c)

68 Worst part of LOTR
- The Elves. They should have been more... elvish.
Instead they were merely super human.

Disappointed that they had to cut a few scenes such as retaking the Shire.

Overall - Outstanding. Amazingly true to the books.

Now "The Hobbit", I felt ripped off when I got it $1.00 from Redbox.
Both halves.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at October 20, 2018 08:04 PM (1g7ch)

69 Eowyn has a grand dramatic moment, but she doesn't have any character development with the killing of the Lord of the Nazgul. All she manages is a moment of transcendent "Gurl Power!"
Her character development comes only in the boring after bit where she moons about in the Halls of Healing until she hooks up with Faramir, giving up on Aragorn when she finds a deposed prince who thinks a "wild shieldmaiden" is the hottest babe in two kingdoms.

Samwise has character development, but once again it is in the boring after bit, where he stands up as a hero of the Shire, and gets Rosie Cotton, the hot barmaid.
It should also be noted that Samwise is "supposed" to be a simpleton, able to handle gardening, but not really up to the role of manservant, which is he forced into because he is nosey.

Both of those demonstrate the fatal flaw throughout the movies: Jackson persistently chooses the awesome action sequences, and equally persistently disdains the boring after and side bits that provide all of the character growth found in the books. This affects virtually every major character you might name, and leaves the movie visually stunning, technically fantastic, but utterly vapid when it comes to anything resembling story and character development.

Posted by: Sam at October 20, 2018 08:05 PM (ZIHuF)

70 TJM, Glad you and the family are doing better. And thanks for this topic.

I found the music for ROTK to be spectacular in an appropriate way. Perhaps the best example of that is the use of a hardinger fiddle in the Rohan theme. The droning strings lend an extra layer of melancholy akin to the drones on bagpipes.

I recently got new, vastly improved hearing aids. I'm going to play the trilogy DVDs just for the music and the sound effects. Should be interesting.

Posted by: JTB at October 20, 2018 08:06 PM (V+03K)

71 Really? A reboot of DasBoot? why?

Posted by: A dude in MI at October 20, 2018 08:06 PM (OOH1c)

72 Biggest unforgivable is the High Elves giving a shit about men and coming to save them at Helms Deep.

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 08:07 PM (T4oHT)

73 My only problem with LOTR--and it's a minor quibble--is that writers used the command "Fire" for archers. The correct command is "Loose."

As I said, it's minor. I love the movie.
Posted by: RS at October 20, 2018 08:01 PM

Yes! I don't know weapons from a hole in my head, but I remember thinking "Is FIRE the right command? How do you 'fire' a bow?"

Posted by: Hands at October 20, 2018 08:07 PM (786Ro)

74 I came home late last night and Dolley stayed at the hospital until this afternoon. She's asleep while I sort of pay attention to spider man 2.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 07:50

Glad you are all feeling better, be well.

Posted by: Farmer at October 20, 2018 08:08 PM (yJ1e6)

75 Really? A reboot of DasBoot? why?
Posted by: A dude in MI at October 20, 2018 08:06 PM (OOH1c)

It's gonna be a musical this time!

Oh, and Spielberg's West Side Story is already a go. I saw that he's chosen a very pretty male to star. I'm already looking forward to not seeing it.

Posted by: qdpsteve at October 20, 2018 08:08 PM (miE9U)

76 Das Boot is a tv series or mini series on German tv I take it

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 08:08 PM (T4oHT)

77 ' Really? A reboot of DasBoot? why?'

Das Boot 2 - Call Of Booty

Posted by: freaked at October 20, 2018 08:09 PM (UdKB7)

78 Worst part of LOTR
- The Elves. They should have been more... elvish.
Instead they were merely super human.
Posted by: Burnt Toast at October 20, 2018 08:04 PM (1g7ch)

I agree entirely. There were a few little things - in one of the distant shots on Caradhras, the party is slogging through waist-deep snow except for Legolas, who is walking on top of it - but they're not easy to spot. I can't think of a way to show them as elvish without triggering the audience's CGI uncanny valley reaction.

Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 08:09 PM (y87Qq)

79 Picnic At Hanging Rock was only recently rebooted as a miniseries on Australian TV. It's also come to Netflix.

I guess it could work, if they delve into the mystery even more and don't try to add on a ton of side- and/or SJW-subplots.

Posted by: qdpsteve at October 20, 2018 08:10 PM (miE9U)

80 Yes! I don't know weapons from a hole in my head, but I remember thinking "Is FIRE the right command? How do you 'fire' a bow?"
Posted by: Hands at October 20, 2018 08:07 PM (786Ro)

Don't get Shadversity (YouTube channel) started on fire arrows.

Posted by: auscolpyr at October 20, 2018 08:10 PM (oFsfu)

81 Eowyn has a grand dramatic moment, but she doesn't have any character development with the killing of the Lord of the Nazgul. All she manages is a moment of transcendent "Gurl Power!"

Her character development comes only in the boring after bit where she moons about in the Halls of Healing until she hooks up with Faramir, giving up on Aragorn when she finds a deposed prince who thinks a "wild shieldmaiden" is the hottest babe in two kingdoms.

Posted by: Sam at October 20, 2018 08:05 PM

Eowyn: Middle Earth Mary Sue

Posted by: Hands at October 20, 2018 08:10 PM (786Ro)

82 As other movie was hoping to go see Gosnell by now, still want to see it.

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 08:10 PM (T4oHT)

83 Das Boot is a tv series or mini series on German tv I take it

Trailers say it's a series on Sky, which is a Europe-wide network (and somewhere in the tangled Murdoch empire).

Posted by: Bandersnatch at October 20, 2018 08:10 PM (fuK7c)

84 Just because this is a movie thread.

The Internship > Wedding Crashers

Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:11 PM (2DOZq)

85 Eowyn: Middle Earth Mary Sue
Posted by: Hands at October 20, 2018 08:10 PM (786Ro)

Piker.

Posted by: Rey- SW super chick at October 20, 2018 08:11 PM (oFsfu)

86 The "Das Boot" series will be in German in Europe (Sky Network). Who knows when/if it will get here.

Posted by: RS at October 20, 2018 08:12 PM (CNQqJ)

87 To me, especially in the extended editions, Eowyn was a chick looking for dick. Like a clueless girl who was in heat 24/7. Finally got some dick from Faramir who'd probably F anything that had a veejay and a heartbeat. While not shown on screen, every other character kept their distance from her. They all knew why. She's was just lusty whore.

I do admit, the LoTR series is my favorite movie series of all time. I read the trilogy back in my early teen DD days, in addition to the hobbit and the Silmarillion books. I was so extremely happy to see how well the LoTR stayed true to the original books. Unlike the Hobbit movies, which has was made up junk.

Posted by: friday1970 at October 20, 2018 08:12 PM (FrIb1)

88 Skip, I shared yesterday:

I was happily surprised, when I passed by a few days ago, to see Gosnell playing at my nearest 'really big shew' theater, the Edwards 26 in Long Beach.

So people are seeing it apparently, despite the media blackout. Also happy that a secular company like Regal (which owns Edwards) is running it.

Posted by: qdpsteve at October 20, 2018 08:12 PM (miE9U)

89 Super Elves started in the later movies and another reason not to watch them.

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 08:12 PM (T4oHT)

90 I really enjoyed the Riddick triology. I actually liked the 3rd one, Riddick, best.

Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:13 PM (2DOZq)

91 They all knew why. She's was just lusty whore.

Posted by: friday1970 at October 20, 2018 08:12 PM (FrIb1)

LOL.

Posted by: anchorbabe fashion cop at October 20, 2018 08:13 PM (8iiMU)

92 "Super Elves! A Quinn Martin Production!!"

(They're cute and they solve crime!)

Posted by: qdpsteve at October 20, 2018 08:13 PM (miE9U)

93
Jesse Watters is gonna have one of those Kavanaugh-hexing witches on a little bit, I hear.

If you haven't heard, they had a big Kavanaugh hexing session in Brooklyn, which supposedly started at 7PM tonight.

Posted by: publius, Rascally Rapscallion of a Poperin Pear at October 20, 2018 08:13 PM (f1Vqw)

94 Lord of the Rings was fairly well done....

The Hobbit Movies, an abomination, they turned it into a cartoon.
Posted by: Don Quixote, looking for Dulcinea at October 20, 2018 07:58 PM (NgKpN)

Fortunately, I read LOTR first, then the Hobbit later. I felt that The Hobbit was written for children, LOTR for adults. LOTR was also published 17 to 18 years after The Hobbit. Tolkien's personal interests, like history and languages, made him able to create an entirely unique world that people are still imitating today. But, the book The Hobbit was never meant to have the epic scope that Jackson gave it. After creating 3 successful movies, he went for a 4th using the same formula as LOTR. The book was very lighthearted, being geared to children. The movie was not.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at October 20, 2018 08:14 PM (3sjI6)

95 watching The Haunting of Hill House on Netflix

Posted by: votermom pimping NEW Moron-authored books! at October 20, 2018 08:14 PM (dMvl+)

96 I really enjoyed the Riddick triology. I actually liked the 3rd one, Riddick, best.
Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:13 PM (2DOZq)

I take it Pitch Black is considered the first one? If so, yes. Riddick is the best of the three though Claudia Black in PB was still hot.

Posted by: auscolpyr at October 20, 2018 08:14 PM (oFsfu)

97 While I loved the movies for what they were, they ruined the print books for me.
I am sorry I ever saw the movies. Because those characters (actors) are now embedded in my brain, and I can't shake it.
I read the trilogy perhaps 10-12 times all the way through before the movies.. They were my go-to books when I was feeling down or just had nothing good to read.. That was over a 30 year period..
As for the movies...
The Fellowship is rushed.. skips some of my favorite parts.. and is my least favorite.
For the scene he did of Galadriel with CG by Galadriel's mirror, he should be shot. Cate Blanchett is an actress more than qualified to have acted the transformation described in the books.. he chose not to use his actors.. asshole.
The rest of the trilogy is not so bad.. and I guess I give Jackson some leeway for having to film this fantasy..
Eowyn is the only character that rings true to me. well acted, and well portrayed. Especially the scene with the Nazgul's witch king of Angmar.. very well done!
The battle of the Pellenor Fields was excellent..

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 20, 2018 08:14 PM (438dO)

98 72 Biggest unforgivable is the High Elves giving a shit about men and coming to save them at Helms Deep.
Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 08:07 PM (T4oHT)

Yup.... it was the Rangers... essentially Aragorn's people, with a couple of Elves... not a whole militaristic overly drilled Division of Elves.

Posted by: Don Quixote, looking for Dulcinea at October 20, 2018 08:14 PM (NgKpN)

99 The books are classic. The movies are compelling and I enjoyed them.

If I have one criticism, it's that the dialogue betwixt the hobbits sometimes became too schmaltzy. Maybe it was the pipes and flutey background music, -- I'll have to consider that some more.

Posted by: Fritz at October 20, 2018 08:15 PM (Z9C5C)

100 It's playing at the Regal cinemas near me, I want to drag my sister along

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 08:15 PM (T4oHT)

101 'they had a big Kavanaugh hexing session in Brooklyn, which supposedly started at 7PM tonight.'

Now if something happens to Kavanaugh can we burn the witches?

Posted by: freaked at October 20, 2018 08:15 PM (UdKB7)

102 one of the qualities that shine through lotr is belief. jackson really believed in the material and the value of bringing it to the screen faithfully. there's no cynicism from the cast or production that they were just making a product.

you don't see that often. it's one of the elements that pervade movies in the "golden age" of hollywood. even though they were knocking them out, they believed in what they were doing.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at October 20, 2018 08:16 PM (Pg+x7)

103 After reading the books I came away with the opinion that Samwise is the real hero of the story. Brave, loyal, determined and he gave the Ring back.

Posted by: LYNN HARGROVE at October 20, 2018 08:16 PM (jHdOj)

104 Fritz, Little House On The Prairie turned a lot of good stories into schmaltz with the music that was IMHO smothered all over every episode.

"I love ya Pa!"

Posted by: qdpsteve at October 20, 2018 08:16 PM (miE9U)

105 Posted by: Anonymous White Male at October 20, 2018 08:14 PM (3sjI6)

Loved the 70's cartoon version. The orcs still scared me as a kid but later realized, "Boy, those birds showing up at that particular time was just effing convenient."

Posted by: auscolpyr at October 20, 2018 08:16 PM (oFsfu)

106 If you haven't heard, they had a big Kavanaugh hexing session in Brooklyn, which supposedly started at 7PM tonight.
Posted by: publius, Rascally Rapscallion of a Poperin Pear at October 20, 2018 08:13 PM (f1Vqw)

-------------

Seems like I heard they have already done several of these, including one the night he was confirmed.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at October 20, 2018 08:17 PM (I16G8)

107 As a fanatic about LOTR books, I've read the trilogy over 50 times, I was concerned about the movies. It was a relief to be able to see the books and film as related but two different things. While I regret that Tom Bombadil and scouring of the Shire were left out, they didn't contribute to the story in the films. How many movies would have been needed to cover everything in the books.

Posted by: JTB at October 20, 2018 08:17 PM (V+03K)

108 Posted by: Anonymous White Male at October 20, 2018 08:14 PM (3sjI6)

Biggest sin of the Hobbit movies was taking the Lord of the Rings semi realistic battles, and turning them into Cartoons, where physics did not matter.

Posted by: Don Quixote, looking for Dulcinea at October 20, 2018 08:17 PM (NgKpN)

109 103 After reading the books I came away with the opinion that Samwise is the real hero of the story. Brave, loyal, determined and he gave the Ring back.
Posted by: LYNN HARGROVE at October 20, 2018 08:16 PM (jHdOj)

Didn't read the books but the movie made it clear to me that Sam was most definitely the defining hero. I don't know if that was the director's intention.

Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:18 PM (2DOZq)

110 in the ground and gets ankle stabbed by a midget (a fate all too many Morons have suffered). Bang, stabbed right in the face so all the evil implodes.
Posted by: DaveA at October 20, 2018 07:58 PM (FhXTo)
He imploded because Merry was using a magic sword. In the book, anyway. It was a sword with anti-Nazgul magic interwoven in its design. How he got it was during an adventure that spilled over from a detour to the house of Tom Bombadil, which was, get this, not in the movie.

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader & Contributing Editor, Vanity Fair Magazine at October 20, 2018 08:19 PM (46ksJ)

111 Now if something happens to Kavanaugh can we burn the witches?
Posted by: freaked at October 20, 2018 08:15 PM (UdKB7)

https://youtu.be/v7c187E5BxY

yeppers

Posted by: auscolpyr at October 20, 2018 08:19 PM (oFsfu)

112 Just watched Stagecoach, with a very young John Wayne. Loved it. Via Filmstruck, btw, which is a wonderful streaming service.

Posted by: lizabth at October 20, 2018 08:19 PM (RFh5Y)

113 It's a little inconceivable to have other humanoids on the planet along with men ( think humans and Neanderthals) but they are no relation and have no trust with thed others. Elves, men and dwarves all rivals for materials and space.
Wizards are not either of those, I took them as a supernatural being.

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 08:20 PM (T4oHT)

114 105
Posted by: Anonymous White Male at October 20, 2018 08:14 PM (3sjI6)

Loved the 70's cartoon version. The orcs still scared me as a kid
but later realized, "Boy, those birds showing up at that particular time
was just effing convenient."

Posted by: auscolpyr at October 20, 2018 08:16 PM (oFsfu)

Deus ex aves.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at October 20, 2018 08:20 PM (8iiMU)

115 Eowyn was a chick looking for dick. Like a clueless girl who was in heat 24/7. Finally got some dick from Faramir who'd probably F anything that had a veejay and a heartbeat. While not shown on screen, every other character kept their distance from her. They all knew why. She's was just lusty whore.

Posted by: friday1970 at October 20, 2018 08:12 PM (FrIb1)

Hey, all women are looking for a dick at some point in their life. Lot's of "men", too. OK, she was just a lusty whore. What's wrong with that, I'd like to know? I'm pretty sure Arwen knew her way around a dick too, being several centuries old. And don't get me started on Rosie the Hobbit. Slut city!

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at October 20, 2018 08:20 PM (3sjI6)

116 If you haven't heard, they had a big Kavanaugh hexing session in Brooklyn, which supposedly started at 7PM tonight.

Rubble, rubble boils and fart bubbles.

Posted by: That irredeemable guy who always says... at October 20, 2018 08:21 PM (Tyii7)

117 OregonMuse, agree %100 on your Lord of the Rings commentary.

Posted by: Seems Legit at October 20, 2018 08:21 PM (jUVms)

118 Wizards are not either of those, I took them as a supernatural being.
Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 08:20 PM (T4oHT)

Wizards are Maiar, like the Valar, only a lower grade.

Sauron is Maiar, too, incidentally.

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader & Contributing Editor, Vanity Fair Magazine at October 20, 2018 08:21 PM (46ksJ)

119 109
Didn't read the books but the movie made it clear to me that Sam was most definitely the defining hero. I don't know if that was the director's intention.
Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:18 PM (2DOZq)

======

He becomes the point of view character because Frodo ceases to become relatable as the ring influences him more and more.

Yeah, Jackson knew he was making Sam the main character.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 08:21 PM (zZbCU)

120 95. if that's the remake I saw it at the movies and it wasn't as scary as the original.

Posted by: kallisto at October 20, 2018 08:21 PM (ugwJg)

121 Rubble, rubble boils and fart bubbles.
Posted by: That irredeemable guy who always says... at October 20, 2018 08:21 PM (Tyii7)

Not funny.

Posted by: MacBeth at October 20, 2018 08:22 PM (oFsfu)

122 Sauron is Maiar, too, incidentally.
Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader & Contributing Editor, Vanity Fair Magazine at October 20, 2018 08:21 PM (46ksJ)

On his mother's side.

Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 08:22 PM (y87Qq)

123 113 Wizards are not either of those, I took them as a supernatural being.
Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 08:20 PM (T4oHT

======

The five wizards are essentially angels.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 08:22 PM (zZbCU)

124 117 OregonMuse, agree %100 on your Lord of the Rings commentary.

Posted by: Seems Legit at October 20, 2018 08:21 PM (jUVms)

======

I thought it was pretty good too.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 08:23 PM (zZbCU)

125 I thought Cate Blanchett was already a somebody before this movie.

Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 20, 2018 08:23 PM (yQpMk)

126 ... the other day i watched a movie about the foibles of some people in the '30s. all of the interiors were lavish, opulent, spacious, and utterly a fantasy. nobody lived like that. but it was engrossing. because the film ma

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at October 20, 2018 08:23 PM (Pg+x7)

127 Milwaukee up 1-0 in game 7.

Posted by: dantesed at October 20, 2018 08:24 PM (88xKn)

128 kers believed in what they were doing.

[my computer is shorting out.]

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at October 20, 2018 08:24 PM (Pg+x7)

129 If I have one criticism, it's that the dialogue betwixt the hobbits sometimes became too schmaltzy. Maybe it was the pipes and flutey background music, -- I'll have to consider that some more.
Posted by: Fritz at October 20, 2018 08:15 PM (Z9C5C)

All that 'weed' they were smoking.
Also made them eat seven times a day.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at October 20, 2018 08:25 PM (1g7ch)

130 TJM, I appreciate you sharing your top ten with the movie horde. I don't think a single one of your top ten would be in mine, but it seems like you put a lot of thought into each post. Or even if you didn't, then you're just a good writer.

Posted by: Hands at October 20, 2018 08:25 PM (786Ro)

131 Someone needs to make 27 part miniseries of the Silmarillion.

Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 20, 2018 08:25 PM (yQpMk)

132 Milwaukee up 1-0 in game 7.
Posted by: dantesed at October 20, 2018 08:24 PM (88xKn)

Great, but it's a 9-inn game. May have to pop in Major League

Posted by: auscolpyr at October 20, 2018 08:25 PM (oFsfu)

133 Someone needs to make 27 part miniseries of the Silmarillion.
Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 20, 2018 08:25 PM (yQpMk)

Make it a Bollywood production

Posted by: auscolpyr at October 20, 2018 08:26 PM (oFsfu)

134 My favorite part of the trilogy was the beginning of "the Fellowship of the Ring", specifically Bilbo's birthday party. I can narrow that down the the guy drawing a pint from a keg. Looks like my kind of people.

https://tinyurl.com/y9p3lyjd

Posted by: Not That Michael at October 20, 2018 08:26 PM (KJeFD)

135 >> Cate Blanchett

Every time I see her name I think of the time she met Prince Philip, QEII's husband.

She was meeting at some big to-do, and the first thing he did was ask her to how to hook up this new DVD player he got and couldn't figure out. He figured she worked in the movie industry, so she'd know that stuff.

In the old days the aristocracy looked down their noses on actors and performers are low-bred commoners.

Posted by: publius, Rascally Rapscallion of a Poperin Pear at October 20, 2018 08:27 PM (f1Vqw)

136 Apropos of nothing, I'm watching the LSU/MSU game and, maybe it's the booze talking, but I don't see Alabama losing to either of these teams.

Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 20, 2018 08:27 PM (yQpMk)

137 130 TJM, I appreciate you sharing your top ten with the movie horde. I don't think a single one of your top ten would be in mine, but it seems like you put a lot of thought into each post. Or even if you didn't, then you're just a good writer.
Posted by: Hands at October 20, 2018 08:25 PM (786Ro

=======

It's been a wonderful journey, revisiting 10 movies that I adore unquestionably and sharing them with everyone.

Getting people to change their opinions has never really been the objective.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 08:29 PM (zZbCU)

138 I've always felt Samwise (the Brave) was the main character after the first part (and Frodo just annoyed me after part 1).

Oh, and Viggo Mortensen is smokin' hot in this trilogy.

Posted by: Ann at October 20, 2018 08:29 PM (NDO5Q)

139 True story that no one ever believes:
I have been enamored with LoTR for 4+ decades. When I learned that Ian M. had been hired to play Gandalf, I wrote him an email (early AOL) asking him to be true to the books and to play Gandalf as the guardian of the West and not the wizard with trinkets and fireworks. He actually wrote me a lengthy note and assured me he was a fan of the work and would treat Gandalf with respect. And he did.
And removing the Scouring of the Shire eliminates Tolkien's main premise: individual growth, courage, and sacrifice in the service of your own home and culture.

Posted by: Gouverneur Morris at October 20, 2018 08:30 PM (PHxng)

140 Read Lampoon's Bored of the Rings after I read Lord
of the Rings. I was about 14 at the time. I rolled on the floor from
laughing. I read it again last year. Some snickers, but no floor
rolling. Getting older does that to your sense of humor.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at October 20, 2018 08:04 PM (3sjI6)

NOT your sense of humor, your development into a mature adult.

Posted by: Grannymimi at October 20, 2018 08:30 PM (u5LFV)

141 131 Someone needs to make 27 part miniseries of the Silmarillion.
Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 20, 2018 08:25 PM (yQpMk)

=====

Amazon bought the rights to LotR and the entire Tolkien lexicon, I believe.

They're probably going with the adventures of young Aragorn, but if the series becomes successful, I could imagine them taking up parts of The Silmarillion.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 08:31 PM (zZbCU)

142 The books allude to separate battles of Dwarves and Legolas' folk against other parts of Sauron's forces. But in the action of the books and the movie, the Elves are an influence and a help but not the prime movers. That belongs mostly to Men. For action, the Elves are basically assassins more than military. I put Hobbits and Men in the same basic category as far as the 'philosophy' behind Middle Earth is concerned.

Posted by: JTB at October 20, 2018 08:31 PM (V+03K)

143 I loved the books. I liked the movie in spite of the fact that it strays from the movie needlessly and introduces inferior material in place of superior material from the books. Either Jackson didn't understand that or didn't care.

The Hobbit is even worse. I don' think I have ever watched The Hobbit a second time and I doubt I ever will.

Jackson and his team just aren't that good at telling the story.

Posted by: WarEagle82 at October 20, 2018 08:31 PM (2BPRE)

144 Oh GOD I HATED THESE MOVIES!!!

No, really. I HATED THEM.

I didn't at first. Fellowship was okay, but that's only because Jackson did an almost shot-for-shot remake of the Bakshi version (even including the Eomer subplot).

But Two Towers grated on me. Helm's Deep was all wrong. Not only weren't the elves there, there were good reasons the elves weren't there.

Oh, and their tactics made zero sense.

But let's skip ahead to the dumbest part of the whole sh!tshow, Return of the King.
How 'bout those guys from the Paths of the Dead, or as we call them, the Scrubbing Bubbles of Doom.
Way to go, Peter, by having them show up at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields and be totally unstoppable, you completely made the charge of the Rohirrim not only redundant, but unnecessary.
If Theoden had been a half hour late, he could have watched the Morgul host die from the comfort of his tent.
I'm with Pug at the top of the thread. This adaptation sucks, and not just in the usual way of offering flash and gee-whiz effects over substance, but in the sense of perverting the author's message and crapping all over his story.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 08:31 PM (cfSRQ)

145 Viggo Mortensen is an insane Lefty but he is a good actor. He was great in Eastern Promises and Hildago. Of course he was helped because they were great movies.

Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:32 PM (2DOZq)

146 131
Someone needs to make 27 part miniseries of the Silmarillion.

Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 20, 2018 08:25 PM (yQpMk)

---
Amazon bought the rights.

No, I'm not kidding.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 08:32 PM (cfSRQ)

147 My favorite scene in LOTR is, without a doubt, is the ride of the Rohirrim. The moment the horses slam into the line of orcs is wonderful. I can't think of a better word.

Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 08:32 PM (nBr1j)

148 They're probably going with the adventures of young Aragorn, but if the series becomes successful, I could imagine them taking up parts of The Silmarillion.

I think you could make a good movie about Hurin Thalion and his son.

Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 20, 2018 08:33 PM (yQpMk)

149 In the old days the aristocracy looked down their noses on actors and performers are low-bred commoners.
Posted by: publius, Rascally Rapscallion of a Poperin Pear at October 20, 2018 08:27 PM (f1Vqw)

Sure, they're low-bred commoners. But their genitalia works OK, unlike my wife's.--Sir Reginald Smithee Douchebag-Douchebag.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at October 20, 2018 08:35 PM (3sjI6)

150 But in the action of the books and the movie, the Elves are an influence and a help but not the prime movers. That belongs mostly to Men.

Yeah, the Elves are basically a spent force at this point.

Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 20, 2018 08:35 PM (yQpMk)

151 Read Lampoon's Bored of the Rings after I read Lord
of the Rings. I was about 14 at the time. I rolled on the floor from
laughing. I read it again last year. Some snickers, but no floor
rolling. Getting older does that to your sense of humor.

Lampoon's "Doon" was not just a teen favorite, but a huge influence on my humor and writing style. I still once in a while say "Boffo!" in response to good news and "Steak for supper sometime soon."

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at October 20, 2018 08:35 PM (jn7FC)

152 Elijah Wood had one facial expression as Frodo: deer in the headlights.

Posted by: JuJuBee, just generally being shamey at October 20, 2018 08:36 PM (2NqXo)

153 143
I loved the books. I liked the movie in spite of the fact that it
strays from the movie needlessly and introduces inferior material in
place of superior material from the books. Either Jackson didn't
understand that or didn't care.

The Hobbit is even worse. I don' think I have ever watched The Hobbit a second time and I doubt I ever will.

Jackson and his team just aren't that good at telling the story.

Posted by: WarEagle82 at October 20, 2018 08:31 PM (2BPRE)

---
Now summoning...NERD RAGE!!!

I'm with you. I was so pissed over the way Return of the King took a giant dump on the plot that I refused to watch the Hobbit. I've seen bits on cable, and it is a total sh!tshow.

You know what really pisses me off? It's the opportunities lost. The epic showdown between Gandalf and the Witch-King, which was so poweful in the book, and which Jackson just destroyed because CGI OGRES OMG!!!I hate these movies.

On the plus side, I made my girls read the books last year and was gratified to subsequently overhear them watching the movies and heckling them mercilessly.

Big moment of paternal pride there.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 08:36 PM (cfSRQ)

154 Oh yeah, Bored of the Rings. Legolam was the best name.

Posted by: JuJuBee, just generally being shamey at October 20, 2018 08:37 PM (2NqXo)

155 NOT your sense of humor, your development into a mature adult.
Posted by: Grannymimi at October 20, 2018 08:30 PM (u5LFV)

Well, who wants to be a mature adult if you can't roll on the floor?

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at October 20, 2018 08:37 PM (3sjI6)

156 Elijah Wood had one facial expression as Frodo: deer in the headlights.

At least he was wearing blue contact lenses.

Posted by: dantesed at October 20, 2018 08:38 PM (88xKn)

157 Elijah Wood had one facial expression as Frodo: deer in the headlights.
Posted by: JuJuBee, just generally being shamey at October 20, 2018 08:36 PM (2NqXo)

He kept seeing Hope Solo's Flaming Rolo in his mind.

Disturbing.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at October 20, 2018 08:38 PM (1g7ch)

158 140
Read Lampoon's Bored of the Rings after I read Lord

of the Rings. I was about 14 at the time. I rolled on the floor from

laughing. I read it again last year. Some snickers, but no floor

rolling. Getting older does that to your sense of humor.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at October 20, 2018 08:04 PM (3sjI6)
---
Gotta disagree. Read it a few months ago and was gasping for air in parts. It's held up pretty well for me. It loses a step near the end but the first half is inspired. I'm laughing as I write this just thinking about it.
"Behold, the grim Mount Badass!"

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 08:39 PM (cfSRQ)

159 The Lotr trilogy is the best thing of the 00's.

Lucasfilm will never be able to come close to what that 3 made in terms of shear entertainment.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 20, 2018 08:39 PM (c07y/)

160 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?

Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:39 PM (2DOZq)

161 Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 08:32 PM (nBr1j)

The look on Th�oden's face when the Elephants showed up was just heart-breaking, like "Now what"

Posted by: auscolpyr at October 20, 2018 08:39 PM (oFsfu)

162 As a Tolkien fan, I generally enjoyed all three of the (extended) edition movies. Some things I felt were problematic: Jackson got the character Denethor wrong, and destroyed Faramir, took much away from Theodan (to give to Aragorn), and felt they had to made Frodo more "real" by having him send away Sam.

But, things could have been worse; they could have had Arwen at Helm's Deep.
--
I have a soft spot in my heart for Chronicles of Riddick. I've thoroughly enjoyed all of the Riddick movies. As the necromonger lady would say: "Flawless"

Posted by: Revenant at October 20, 2018 08:40 PM (sryxB)

163 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?

Both "Jaws" and "The Godfather" are regarded as far superior to the books they were based on.

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at October 20, 2018 08:40 PM (jn7FC)

164 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?

Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:39 PM

Full Metal Jacket and JC's The Thing spring to mind.

Posted by: otho at October 20, 2018 08:41 PM (LkFnL)

165 156 Elijah Wood had one facial expression as Frodo: deer in the headlights.

And dirty T-zone.

Posted by: auscolpyr at October 20, 2018 08:41 PM (oFsfu)

166 Lampoon's "Doon" was not just a teen favorite, but a
huge influence on my humor and writing style. I still once in a while
say "Boffo!" in response to good news and "Steak for supper sometime
soon."

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at October 20, 2018 08:35 PM (jn7FC)

---
Arruckis. Dessert Planet.

My favorite part is where Jazzica drinks the beer and then realized she's pregnant.

"Send more beer," says the kid.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 08:41 PM (cfSRQ)

167 160 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?
Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:39 PM (2DOZq

=====

Dracula.

The book is boring.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 08:41 PM (zZbCU)

168
Oh yeah, Bored of the Rings. Legolam was the best name.

Posted by: JuJuBee
........
For me, Tim Benzedrine (Tom Bombadill) and his "wife" Hashberry were the most fun names!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 20, 2018 08:41 PM (438dO)

169 Love the "Lord of the Rings" in book form and movie form.

I learned you can't expect a movie to replicate your reading/creating inside your head version with "Dune" (David Lynch version),

which I also love as a book and a movie.

Two different things entirely.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 20, 2018 08:41 PM (CRRq9)

170 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?

Both "Jaws" and "The Godfather" are regarded as far superior to the books they were based on.

Sadly, though, "The Last Vampire on Earth" is not one of those.

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at October 20, 2018 08:41 PM (jn7FC)

171 Hey, all women are looking for a dick at some point in their life. Lot's
of "men", too. OK, she was just a lusty whore. What's wrong with that,
I'd like to know? I'm pretty sure Arwen knew her way around a dick too,
being several centuries old. And don't get me started on Rosie the
Hobbit. Slut city!
Posted by: Anonymous White Male at October 20, 2018 08:20 PM (3sjI6)

LOL!
Yep, you notice why Arwen had to seek dick outside of her elven race. She was so dirty, no elf ever wanted her. Aragorn was like "Heck, I'm on the road all the time. I'll take what I can, human or not". Perfect match. Dirty whore and horny traveler. Like a truck stop or something.

Posted by: friday1970 at October 20, 2018 08:41 PM (FrIb1)

172 160 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?
Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:39 PM (2DOZq)

If they ever get around to Ringworld.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at October 20, 2018 08:41 PM (1g7ch)

173 TJM, I like using Eowyn and Sam as examples but not just in the same way you do. The movie emphasizes the importance of an individual on the action and Eowyn and Sam show that. Frodo would not have made it to Mount Doom without Sam's steadfast, and growing, devotion. If Eowyn had not killed the main Nazgul, it could have ruined the battle for Minas Tirith. The importance of the individual characters against the huge forces where individuals don't matter is a critical aspect of the books and films.

Posted by: JTB at October 20, 2018 08:42 PM (V+03K)

174 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?

Both "Jaws" and "The Godfather" are regarded as far superior to the books they were based on.
Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at October 20, 2018 08:40 PM (jn7FC)

---------

Have to agree with this, having read and seen both.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at October 20, 2018 08:43 PM (I16G8)

175 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?

Ready Player One?

Posted by: Hands at October 20, 2018 08:43 PM (786Ro)

176 TJM, you guys were sick?

Posted by: votermom pimping NEW Moron-authored books! at October 20, 2018 08:43 PM (dMvl+)

177
Fortunately, I read LOTR first, then the Hobbit later. I felt that
The Hobbit was written for children, LOTR for adults. LOTR was also
published 17 to 18 years after The Hobbit.
Exactly. My children loved The Hobbit, but didn't read LOTR until much later.

Posted by: Grannymimi at October 20, 2018 08:43 PM (u5LFV)

178 Both "Jaws" and "The Godfather" are regarded as far superior to the books they were based on.

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at October 20, 2018 08:40 PM (jn7FC)

---
Last of the Mohicans.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 08:43 PM (cfSRQ)

179 The need for a character arc is what lead to what was for me the worst portrayal in the entire series-Faramir. In the books, Tolkien created contrasting character pairs, placing both of each pair in similar circumstances and contrasting their different responses. Frodo and Gollum, Gandalf and Saruman, Theoden and Denathor, Boromir and Faramir. Jackson completely missed that.

Posted by: Terentia at October 20, 2018 08:43 PM (0ArPO)

180 No, I don't buy it. For one thing, they show a common failing of movies in the age of special effects magic. They make monstrous creatures too big. The Nagul's steeds are a good example (as are the elephants). They are just out of scale with both the rest of the characters, and with the impression you get from the books. (Other examples are the basilisk in Harry Potter, and worst of all, the worms in Dune.) That detracts.

But to me, the worst and almost unforgivable sin of LoTR is that they cut the curse Frodo puts on Gollum, on the way up Mt Doom, that if he makes another attempt on it, the precious will destroy him. Which is exactly how it ends. But to watch the movie, you'd think that Gollum just happened to fall into the fire.

I'll grant the ride of the Rhohirim is good, and Helm's Deep. But the battle of Gondor itself is so portrayed that it seems that Gandalf was the only actual defense the city had; everyone else was of no weight at all. And that is not how it reads in Tolkein.

There are other lesser weaknesses. Like where did the scouring of the Shire disappear to? What the hell happened to Tom Bombadil? And face it, Gimli and Legolas end up "agreeing to disagree" on who is more beautiful, Galadriel or Arwen. Sorry, no one thinks Cate Blanchett is in a league with Liv Tyler, not even Cate's parents.

All in all, if you like the book, the movie is just mixed.

Posted by: Eeyore, fomerly George LeS at October 20, 2018 08:44 PM (59GGI)

181 Lords of Discipline was the most disappointing book to movie for me.

Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:44 PM (2DOZq)

182 Except the ride of the Rhohirrim is nothing for realism as I have read about cavalry charges in real life. Horses are not brave or fearless and know danger and what they can and can't ride through, between or around.
But as a make believe movie horses knocking over orks is good entertainment.

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 08:44 PM (T4oHT)

183
If they ever get around to Ringworld.

Posted by: Burnt Toast

..............
oh yeah.. I have been longing for that book to be adapted to film all my adult life!
What a set of characters!
and the visuals of a Ringworld! (HALO)

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 20, 2018 08:44 PM (438dO)

184 178: "Jaws" truly is a better movie. I remember reading the book (after seeing the movies) and my reaction was WTF.
Course, Quinn could have used a pickled dolphin on the boat. That would have been cool.

Posted by: Revenant at October 20, 2018 08:44 PM (sryxB)

185 Many people hate these movies because they stray too much from the books, and for many other major and minor reasons.

I love the books more than perhaps any other books I have read. In my mind they are perfect literature. No movies could ever, ever do the books justice.

I believe that Peter Jackson's vision captured the themes, spirit, feel and span of the books about as well as it was humanly possible to do so.

For that reason I love the movies as well, despite their imperfections.

Tolkien was a genius unlike any other.

Posted by: Sharkman at October 20, 2018 08:45 PM (/DDKs)

186 176 TJM, you guys were sick?
Posted by: votermom pimping NEW Moron-authored books! at October 20, 2018 08:43 PM (dMvl+)

=======

Yeah. Junior had a stomach bug he for through pretty easily, but it decimated Dolley and me.

But we're on the mend. I'm in better condition than her, but a good night's sleep should really help that.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 08:46 PM (zZbCU)

187 The only movie I can recall that I thought was true to the book was "Day of the Jackal".

Posted by: Grannymimi at October 20, 2018 08:46 PM (u5LFV)

188 I learned you can't expect a movie to replicate your
reading/creating inside your head version with "Dune" (David Lynch
version),

which I also love as a book and a movie.

Two different things entirely.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 20, 2018 08:41 PM (CRRq9)

I vaguely remember a miniseries of Dune (was William Hurt in it?). That was interesting, and certainly not the freakfest of Lynch's version.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at October 20, 2018 08:46 PM (8iiMU)

189 Okay, bunch o'movies this week:

"Venom" - could easily easilylose 20 minutes at the beginning before the story really begins with no effect on the movie at all.

Not great...kind of a mess...but a lot of fun once the actual parasite part of the story gets going. I definitely would see a "Venom" sequel now that they've got the whole origin story out of the way.

Another Marvel superhero comedy that promises good things ahead.

Or not...movie isn't doing big box office here in the US.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 20, 2018 08:46 PM (CRRq9)

190 I loved the movies as well.

Posted by: Darth Randall at October 20, 2018 08:47 PM (5w/Wk)

191 BTW thank y'all for getting me through SW:EP1 that my daughter insisted I put in the dvd player.

Posted by: auscolpyr at October 20, 2018 08:48 PM (oFsfu)

192 Oh yeah, Bored of the Rings. Legolam was the best name.
Posted by: JuJuBee, just generally being shamey at October 20, 2018 08:37 PM (2NqXo)

Dildo Bugger. Tim Benzedrine and Hashberry. Gimlet, son for Groin. Farahslax. Moxie and Pepsi Dingleberry (Merry and Pippin). Goddam (Gollum). The Narcs (Orcs).

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at October 20, 2018 08:48 PM (3sjI6)

193 154
Oh yeah, Bored of the Rings. Legolam was the best name.

Posted by: JuJuBee, just generally being shamey at October 20, 2018 08:37 PM (2NqXo)

---
Lady Lavalier.

Minas Troney.

The beautiful Natalie Wood which turned into the crotchety Evelyn.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 08:48 PM (cfSRQ)

194 There are other lesser weaknesses. Like where did the scouring of the Shire disappear to?
Posted by: Eeyore, fomerly George LeS

It's in the extended version that TheJamesMadison cited.

What the hell happened to Tom Bombadil?

Pointless character. Fruitcake hippie ass clown.

Sorry, no one thinks Cate Blanchett is in a league with Liv Tyler, not even Cate's parents.

Now we're down to taste in women. Great.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 20, 2018 08:49 PM (c07y/)

195 180: Some of these things I find forgivable. Tom Bombadil is an aberration; putting him in the movie would really divert from narrative direction. You can lift the whole Old Forest episode and only really require Aragorn give the Hobbits daggers later.
Same thing with scouring of the shire. I would have liked to see it too -- but re-starting the narrative after the conclusion of the Sauron story would have been too much for audiences.
Some things I have more trouble forgiving; but they were serious attempts at bringing a difficult story to the big screen.

Posted by: Revenant at October 20, 2018 08:49 PM (sryxB)

196 I really don't know if I read James Fenimore Cooper's book, it's possible as a kid, but everything I hear about it the movie with Daniel Day Lewis is superior.
Probably can read LotM somewhere virtually free.

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 08:50 PM (T4oHT)

197 196 I really don't know if I read James Fenimore Cooper's book, it's possible as a kid, but everything I hear about it the movie with Daniel Day Lewis is superior.
Probably can read LotM somewhere virtually free.
Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 08:50 PM (T4oHT

======

Public domain.

100% free.

Gutenberg.org

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 08:51 PM (zZbCU)

198 188: That was the SciFi channel version. I have another soft spot in my heart for that attempt. Not without major shortcomings, but I give both the miniseries "Dune" and the sequel "Children of Dune" much leeway with a very difficult story.
IIRC the director of Children of Dune threw up his hands at God-Emperor (which happens to be my favorite of the series). Oh well.

Posted by: Revenant at October 20, 2018 08:52 PM (sryxB)

199 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?

The Outlaw Josey Wales.

Book is horrible crap. Preachy, one-dimensional stereotyped characters, humorless, and flat dialogue. Notably, the character of Lone Watie bears absolutely no resemblance to the screen version.

Plus, if you read the sequel anyway, it turns out that the author has an obsession with rape, so a fair proportion of the book is teenage and younger girls being defiled, all described in loving detail while the author continually reminds us of how bad it is...

Posted by: Grey Fox at October 20, 2018 08:52 PM (bZ7mE)

200 No matter what people think of the films, they have to admit the movies are spectacular technically, visually and musically. Jackson may have drawbacks as a director but he does excellent battle scenes.

Posted by: JTB at October 20, 2018 08:52 PM (V+03K)

201
The witch is on Watters. It's some sort non-binary persyn. It's a xe, not a she. Or something.

It's got a hat that says Boy on the front, and Girl underneath the bill.

Posted by: publius, Rascally Rapscallion of a Poperin Pear at October 20, 2018 08:52 PM (f1Vqw)

202 Dildo Bugger. Tim Benzedrine and Hashberry. Gimlet,
son for Groin. Farahslax. Moxie and Pepsi Dingleberry (Merry and
Pippin). Goddam (Gollum). The Narcs (Orcs).

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at October 20, 2018 08:48 PM (3sjI6)

---
The Ballhog.

With the word "Villanova" printed on its chest in cruel runes.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 08:52 PM (cfSRQ)

203 "A Star is Born"....the delightful and beautiful Mrs naturalfake is certainly getting her due dose of girly movies in this month.

"A Star is Born" is very good. Bradley Cooper is great. Lady Gaga is great. Hell, the whole cast is great.

Lady Gaga wrote the music along with Willy Nelson's son. And surprisingly, the music is one of the strongest parts of the movie....except for one part-

SPOILER: But, really now, who doesn't know the story of ASIB after three previous versions.

The final song that Lady Gaga sings after BC's suicide is Crap. Not the big declaration of love that it should be....and the problem is that it's a BIG Hollywood Declaration of Love.

Not the simple, heartfelt tune that BC's character would write.

This was the one moment of the film that felt like it was put together by a committee of Hollywood accounts.

Lots of great artistic touches in this movie, I suspect that Bradley Cooper will go on to be one of the great Hollywood directors.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 20, 2018 08:53 PM (CRRq9)

204 I felt that the movie preserved the book so well it stands far and above any other movie ever made from a book or series of books.

Most do okay. A lot are terrible and the writer must have wanted to commite suicide after they got done.

Some are okay but don't follow the books.

LOTR is an excellent screen interpretation. That it was done without the help of Tolkien is amazing. Of course Tolkien was British and Jackson absorbed British mythology as a New Zealander. I believe this would not be the same movie if an American had tried to make it.

I have not seen the Hobbit because I believe he was made to incorporate some PC points that were not faithful to the book and would've just made me angry.

Posted by: jakee308 at October 20, 2018 08:54 PM (7nIX8)

205 James - picked back up on History of Frederick the Great from Gutenberg. Org so think I should read it

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 08:54 PM (T4oHT)

206 198 IIRC the director of Children of Dune threw up his hands at God-Emperor (which happens to be my favorite of the series). Oh well.
Posted by: Revenant at October 20, 2018 08:52 PM (sryxB

=====

Really?

God emperor is your favorite?

It has no drama, barely any characters. It's just so boring.

It felt like Herbert wanted to write a political treatise, but had a Dune book due.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 08:54 PM (zZbCU)

207 198
188: That was the SciFi channel version. I have another soft spot in my
heart for that attempt. Not without major shortcomings, but I give both
the miniseries "Dune" and the sequel "Children of Dune" much leeway with
a very difficult story.
IIRC the director of Children of Dune threw
up his hands at God-Emperor (which happens to be my favorite of the
series). Oh well.

Posted by: Revenant at October 20, 2018 08:52 PM (sryxB)

---
I liked that version. It got the gist of the books across.

The problem with the second series was that they had a better cast, more F/X budget but an inferior storyline.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 08:54 PM (cfSRQ)

208 How does the book True Grit compare to the movies?

Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 08:55 PM (nBr1j)

209 I feel like Cousin Vinny at the diner for breakfast.

What's a ~~grit~~ hobbit/orc/whatever?

Back to lurking

Posted by: Count de Monet at October 20, 2018 08:55 PM (QLvwG)

210 147 My favorite scene in LOTR is, without a doubt, is the ride of the Rohirrim. The moment the horses slam into the line of orcs is wonderful. I can't think of a better word.

Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 08:32 PM (nBr1j)

I think the Helm's Deep siege/battle was just better than the Minas Tirith battle in RotK.

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader & Contributing Editor, Vanity Fair Magazine at October 20, 2018 08:55 PM (46ksJ)

211 160 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?
Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:39 PM (2DOZq)

Jaws.

The book was utter crap. Spielberg did a masterful job polishing that turd into a something resembling a jewel.

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader & Contributing Editor, Vanity Fair Magazine at October 20, 2018 08:57 PM (46ksJ)

212 TJM, I hope you and wifey feel 100% soon.
Congrats on the bun in the oven!

Posted by: votermom pimping NEW Moron-authored books! at October 20, 2018 08:58 PM (dMvl+)

213 The Fellowship of the Ring is the best movie of that year.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at October 20, 2018 08:58 PM (rnAwa)

214 201
The witch is on Watters. It's some sort non-binary persyn. It's a xe, not a she. Or something.

It's got a hat that says Boy on the front, and Girl underneath the bill.
Posted by: publius, Rascally Rapscallion of a Poperin Pear at October 20, 2018 08:52 PM (f1Vqw)

Questions Missed-
- What is this 'hex' supposed to do?
- Do you really believe that it will work?
- Now that you have established intent, how is that different that a physical assault that fails?
- Should not you be charged with intent to ______ however futile the effort?

Posted by: Burnt Toast at October 20, 2018 08:58 PM (1g7ch)

215 210 I think the Helm's Deep siege/battle was just better than the Minas Tirith battle in RotK.
Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader & Contributing Editor, Vanity Fair Magazine at October 20, 2018 08:55 PM (46ksJ)

======

I don't know...

The Pelennor Fields was far more emotionally resonant to me.

I really like Helm's Deep, but Haldir's death is nothing compared to Theoden's.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 08:58 PM (zZbCU)

216 206: I loved Leto II as a character and loved his dialogues over the course of the story. Most consider the first book to be the best story, but yes, God emperor was my favourite.

Posted by: Revenant at October 20, 2018 08:58 PM (a2PVt)

217 200
No matter what people think of the films, they have to admit the movies
are spectacular technically, visually and musically. Jackson may have
drawbacks as a director but he does excellent battle scenes.

Posted by: JTB at October 20, 2018 08:52 PM (V+03K)

---
Disagree. His battle scenes are incoherent and make no sense. That was one of the things that set me off against him.NONE of his battle sense work. If the Uruk-hai have pikes, the Rohirrim are toast. Gosh, in the books they don't have pikes.

The Siege of Gondor is completely jacked up, from the assinine defense of the causeway forts ("We'll hide in the fog and let the enemy make a secure landing and THEN attack") to the idiotic counterattack of sending cavalry into a TOWN (while Denethor eats overripe tomatoes).

And then the Pelennor Fields, where we learn that if Theoden was a half-hour late, the Scrubbing Bubbles of Doom would have just killed everyone for him.

I could go on, but my NERD RAGE is now spent.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 08:59 PM (cfSRQ)

218 I have lots of complaints about the movies. But overall think they are okay.

I'd like to see it redone as a three-season series with maybe 15 to 20 episodes per season. I think you need that to get all of the material in, and all of it should be included and hew closer to the text.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at October 20, 2018 08:59 PM (H5knJ)

219 212 TJM, I hope you and wifey feel 100% soon.
Congrats on the bun in the oven!
Posted by: votermom pimping NEW Moron-authored books! at October 20, 2018 08:58 PM (dMvl+)

======

Thank you!

Dolley is demanding that it be a girl this time.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 08:59 PM (zZbCU)

220 I thought it was pretty good too.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 08:23 PM (zZbCU)

You'd be amazed how many compliments I get for the movie thread. Perhaps I need to put your name in a larger font or something.

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader & Contributing Editor, Vanity Fair Magazine at October 20, 2018 08:59 PM (46ksJ)

221 I've been working my way through the Swedish versions of Stieg Larssen's Millennium Trilogy. I've finished The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo and am working on The Girl Who Played With Fire. They're very grim. Noomi Rapace is excellent as Lisbeth Salander.

Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 09:00 PM (nBr1j)

222 Write often Walkabout book is about 2 American kids as lone survivor of a plane crash and through miss interpretation to the aborigine kid walk the long way across Australia.
Of course the movie we get the lovely Jenny Agutter

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 09:00 PM (T4oHT)

223 220
You'd be amazed how many compliments I get for the movie thread. Perhaps I need to put your name in a larger font or something.
Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader & Contributing Editor, Vanity Fair Magazine at October 20, 2018 08:59 PM (46ksJ)

======

I just find it funny.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 09:00 PM (zZbCU)

224 I like The Missing. It certainly deserved 2.5 stars, even if it wasn't your cup of tea.

Posted by: Kate Winslet's boobs at October 20, 2018 09:00 PM (/3rSv)

225 Supper time, bbl...

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader & Contributing Editor, Vanity Fair Magazine at October 20, 2018 09:01 PM (46ksJ)

226 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?

Blade Runner.

Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 20, 2018 09:02 PM (yQpMk)

227 221 I've been working my way through the Swedish versions of Stieg Larssen's Millennium Trilogy. I've finished The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo and am working on The Girl Who Played With Fire. They're very grim. Noomi Rapace is excellent as Lisbeth Salander.
Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 09:00 PM (nBr1j

=======

The best blurb of a review I've ever read is for the third one, The Girl Who Kicked The Hornet's Nest:

"Should have been called The Girl who Sits in the Dimly Lit Room."

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 09:02 PM (zZbCU)

228 Really, *any* Phillip K. Dick story.

Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 20, 2018 09:02 PM (yQpMk)

229 My feelings about the Lord of the rings movies was captured perfectly by Randal in Clerks 2.

The books are great though.

Posted by: Kreplach at October 20, 2018 09:02 PM (kT3/m)

230 Woo!

Movie thread AND my wheelhouse.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at October 20, 2018 09:03 PM (xJa6I)

231 Loved the books, came to love the movies as well. I pretend the Hobbit movies were never made. Kind of like the 2nd and 3rd Matrix movies movies and all the Star Wars movies after the original trilogy.

Posted by: Hobo with a laptop at October 20, 2018 09:04 PM (Dgce0)

232 I'm so glad I have the BluRay extended edition of the trilogy. And yes, the score is by far one of the best stars of those films.

Posted by: The One Who Ends Comment Threads at October 20, 2018 09:04 PM (MceDl)

233 As for films better than their books, the movie version of Solaris was better. I like the book, but I think the movie is better.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at October 20, 2018 09:04 PM (H5knJ)

234 Song of Durin, Clamavi De Profundis

https://youtu.be/uxfoa23skHg

Thorin and company cover Michael Jackson

https://youtu.be/o2ZkyMcDbUQ

Posted by: BourbonChicken at October 20, 2018 09:04 PM (rnAwa)

235
The best blurb of a review I've ever read is for the third one, The Girl Who Kicked The Hornet's Nest:

"Should have been called The Girl who Sits in the Dimly Lit Room."
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018

I get that. Lots of low lighting. And cursing in Swedish sounds funny to me.

Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 09:04 PM (nBr1j)

236 The Siege of Gondor is completely jacked up, from the assinine defense of the causeway forts ("We'll hide in the fog and let the enemy make a secure landing and THEN attack") to the idiotic counterattack of sending cavalry into a TOWN (while Denethor eats overripe tomatoes).
Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 08:59 PM (cfSRQ)

Well I think the point of that was that Denethor had completely flipped his nut at that point and was just shooting for maximum Götterdämmerung. Faramir didn't have anything else on the schedule so sure, why not.

In the books (IIRC) it makes sense that Sauron got to him via the Palantir, but I don't remember if that was ever explained in the movie.

Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 09:04 PM (y87Qq)

237 Another: The Ninth Gate is better than the book version (The Club Dumas) even though the book is decent too.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at October 20, 2018 09:05 PM (H5knJ)

238 Write often Walkabout book is about 2 American kids as lone survivor of a plane crash and through miss interpretation to the aborigine kid walk the long way across Australia.

Of course the movie we get the lovely Jenny Agutter

I think Roeg was going for some sort of social or political commentary but Walkabout is incoherent. (I remember feeling young and hip for going to see Track 29 in theaters, it's also a jumble).

It does hold your attention, though, and we get young naked Jenny Agutter.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at October 20, 2018 09:05 PM (fuK7c)

239 I read Alien before I saw the movie, at the time I thought they were close with book explaining a little better how they get sent to the planet.

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 09:05 PM (T4oHT)

240 Oh, and Ralph Bakshi is a shitty pool player. You have to try hard to lose.

Posted by: The One Who Ends Comment Threads at October 20, 2018 09:05 PM (MceDl)

241 The Ballhog was great in Bored of the Rings.

He has the cruel runes "Villanova" emblazoned on his chest.

The distant sound echoes in the halls and corridors . . . "dribble dribble dribble . . . shoot . . . swish!!"

Awesome.

Posted by: Sharkman at October 20, 2018 09:05 PM (/DDKs)

242 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?
Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:39 PM (2DOZq)
---
M*A*S*H

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 09:06 PM (cfSRQ)

243 I agree with your views on Samwise, and would add - Sam represents those people who in the ordinary course of life appear very ordinary and never stand out - gardeners, shopkeepers, people who live ordinary lives in an ordinary way and who never, in an ordinary life, have any reason to display who they can really be. But just as some men turn out in war to be extraordinary heroes under the pressure of battle, men who didn't even know they had that in them, so it is with Sam. The danger and the pressure and the need brings out the qualities in him that never would have been revealed any other way.

Posted by: Tom Servo at October 20, 2018 09:06 PM (V2Yro)

244 Thank you!

Dolley is demanding that it be a girl this time.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 08:59 PM (zZbCU)

It's already in the oven baking, not much you can do about it now. As if there were anything you could do anyway.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at October 20, 2018 09:06 PM (8iiMU)

245 In the books (IIRC) it makes sense that Sauron got to him via the Palantir, but I don't remember if that was ever explained in the movie.

This.

In the movie, this is not made clear, and it makes Denethor look insane for no particular reason. A real shortcoming, if you ask me.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at October 20, 2018 09:07 PM (H5knJ)

246 How does the book True Grit compare to the movies?

-
Quite close to the Coen Bros. version. The John Wayne version sugar coated the ending by leaving out Mattie losing her arm.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at October 20, 2018 09:07 PM (+y/Ru)

247 You know what bugs me about the Peter Jackson LoTR? The pointy ears on the elves.

Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 20, 2018 09:07 PM (yQpMk)

248 @226

Jaws the film is far superior to the book.

In the book Hooper and Brodys wife have an affair.

The motivations to keep the beaches open are mob related.

And on and on.

It's a steaming pile of shit.

Posted by: Kreplach at October 20, 2018 09:07 PM (kT3/m)

249 57
My only problem with LOTR--and it's a minor quibble--is that writers
used the command "Fire" for archers. The correct command is "Loose."

could be worse.

in overwatch, there's a russian character, zarya. like all overwatch characters, she has flavor lines that she says now and then. when there's a zarya on your team, you hear them in english. when she's on the opposing team, you hear them in russian.

one of her flavor lines is "fire when ready".

but in the russian version, they use the noun "fire" instead of the command "fire!". so she says something more along the lines of "there is a fire ready."

should have run in by boris for quality control, i guess,. 'cept then, she'd say "blyat" more.

Posted by: Anachronda at October 20, 2018 09:07 PM (2//jc)

250 I really don't know if I read James Fenimore Cooper's book, it's possible as a kid, but everything I hear about it the movie with Daniel Day Lewis is superior.
Probably can read LotM somewhere virtually free.

The DDL movie cuts out possibly the best part of the book, the canoe chase. That would make a very interesting action scene, after a fashion - it is a war of speed and angles, with the protagonists trying to edge their way out of danger, and finally ended with one very good long-range shot by Hawkeye. Not a lot of corpses or gunfire, but a lot of tension.

The book is an entirely different story from the movie, and it isn't an action thriller, like people want it to be. It is a commentary on civilization versus "natural man," and a discussion of race - One oft missed but very important little fact to the story is that Cora and Alice are not sisters, but half-sisters, and while Alice's mom was a Scotswoman of good family Cora's mom was a part African Creole. Cora, like Hawkeye, really doesn't fit into anybodies culture - Cora because is an upper-class gentlewoman who happens to be of mixed blood and subtly snubbed for it; Hawkeye, because he is a white man who can't stand white civilization.

Hawkeye is the first literary example of the Western archtype- the rough man who opens the way for the settlers, but cannot himself fit into the world he helps bring forth. He is also a lot like Howard's character Conan the Cimmerian - both Cooper and Howard were looking at the idea of the "natural man," Cooper from a Rousseaun standpoint, Howard from a Darwinian.

There is a reason why LoTM is considered a great novel.

Posted by: Grey Fox at October 20, 2018 09:09 PM (bZ7mE)

251 >>> as I have read about cavalry charges in real life. Horses are not brave
or fearless and know danger and what they can and can't ride through,
between or around<<<

Have you ever tried shooting a firearm from horseback? If your horse isn't a seasoned veteran, you better hang on to your skinny little ass!

Posted by: Fritz at October 20, 2018 09:09 PM (Z9C5C)

252 I've mentioned this before. They did a superb job up until the end, at which point they screwed up the entire meaning of the whole thing. It would have added 15 minutes of time to the end, which they could have made up by showing a lot less Liv Tyler riding her horse, and cutting out the dwarf tossing jokes.

Posted by: AshevilleRobert at October 20, 2018 09:09 PM (DjIXP)

253 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?
Posted by: Lancelot Link

---
Jaws

Posted by: The One Who Ends Comment Threads at October 20, 2018 09:09 PM (MceDl)

254 I completely disagree on Eowyn. Jackson ruined her character. He used her as comic relief and wrecked her big scene. In the book, it goes like this:

*witch-king of Angmar attacks Theoden, Snowmane goes mad with fear and throws him and falls on him, the fell beast settles with one foot on Snowmane*
Eowyn: Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!
W-KoA: Stand not between the Nazg�l and his prey. Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee alive to the Houses of Lamentation, where thy flesh shall be devoured and thy mind left naked to the Lidless Eye.
Eowyn: *draws sword* Do what you will. Yet I will hinder it, if I may.
W-KoA: Hinder me? Thou fool! No living man may hinder me!
Eowyn: *laughs* But no living man am I. You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.

In the movie:
Scary Dude: No man can defeat me!
Eowyn: *screeching hysterically* IMNOTAMAN!!!

Scene ruined.

Posted by: Mrs. Peel at October 20, 2018 09:09 PM (kcx6p)

255 In the books, the Crossing of the Anduin by the orcs against Faramir's force happens because Denethor has sent out a small force under Faramir, one that fights bravely but which is hopelessly outnumbered by the thousands of orcs swarming across the river. I actually thought the movie did a decent job of conveying that, but it's always hard for a film to put across a narrative explanation as to why the whole situation is going south.

Posted by: Tom Servo at October 20, 2018 09:10 PM (V2Yro)

256 Okay horror movie time:

Two French horror movies:

"Inside" the most violent, horrifying, cringe-inducing pro-life movie you will ever see.

At under 90 minutes, there is no fat on this movie at all. Very gory. Not at all for the squeamish. And yet, an excellent movie all around. Great Acting. Great Script. Superb directing. Gut punch finale.

Beware the American version, which is apparently crap.

Available on amazon.

I liked "Inside" so much that I looked up the next movie these guys made-

"Livide"-

The plot concerns a young woman who is training as a nurse's assistant for treating senile, sickly old people. She learns that one of the patient's is very rich and has a treasure hidden inside her house. She and her boyfriend and his brother break into the house and Things. Don't. Go. Well.

Excellent acting. Great direction. Nice whatthefuckism and depiction of magic.

The script is a bit of a problem as the story is more a gory Grimm'a fairy tale than a horror movie. And more confusing near the end than it needs to be.

I liked it but didn't love it.

This one is tough to find unless you want to buy the French blu-ray(cheapish) which is all-region and has English subtitles.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 20, 2018 09:10 PM (CRRq9)

257
Well I think the point of that was that Denethor
had completely flipped his nut at that point and was just shooting for
maximum G�tterd�mmerung. Faramir didn't have anything else on the
schedule so sure, why not.

In the books (IIRC) it makes sense that Sauron got to him via the
Palantir, but I don't remember if that was ever explained in the movie.

Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 09:04 PM (y87Qq)

---
But the Denethor in the books is a shrewd strategist. He lights the beacons, sends the Red Arrow, and summons aid. He's a serious guy.

By the way, what an opportunity missed in having the out-companies march into Minas Tirith! There's another visual. Imagine how Jackson could have played up the tearful departures of the families, the sad music as the wagons toiled out of the city and the garrison looked on longingly.

It was gut-wrenching in the book and made the point that the war for FOR REAL. Serious business.

That's the thing about Tolkien. His writing wasn't fanciful, but very very real. When Pippin suddenly realizes he's just another soldier in a city preparing for assault, it hits like a ton of bricks.

But in the movies, everything goes superfast. No sense of time, distance, planning, no foreshadowing, character development, it's just nonstop F/X and freaky action.

What a waste.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 09:10 PM (cfSRQ)

258 I first read LOTR in 1965 and have re-read it every year since. It's a cold weather tradition for me. So I came to the movie versions knowing all the back stories the films didn't have time to provide.

So I wonder what the reactions are of those who saw the movies without knowing the books. Must have been very different from mine.

Posted by: JTB at October 20, 2018 09:12 PM (V+03K)

259 I loved the scene when Ewoyn fights (embedded clip). You can see the fear in her eyes and face but she does not back down. Then she says "I am no man" and slays him. I love it.

I also now, in these crazy feminist witchy times, like that she got assistance from a male to give her the strength, time, and encouragement to regroup so she could slay him.

Women and men together, helping each other, empowering each other. That's the ticket. IMO.

Posted by: platypus, gg channel at October 20, 2018 09:13 PM (8VsQb)

260 Oh, I didn't read all of Tango's thread heading, the Das Boot tv series will be on Hulu here some time.

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 09:13 PM (T4oHT)

261 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?
Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:39 PM (2DOZq)
---
M*A*S*H

-
The Birds.

Some will consider this heresy but I liked the movie Minority Report better than the book.

LA Confidential

The Godfather

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at October 20, 2018 09:13 PM (+y/Ru)

262 It's already in the oven baking, not much you can do about it now. As if there were anything you could do anyway.
Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at October 20, 2018 09:06

Well you certainly aren't an enlightened leftist. If it's not the desired sex you can kill it up to birth. You need to get enlightened like those sick MFers on the left that think that's OK.

Really their mindset is disgusting and immoral. Life is life.

Posted by: Farmer at October 20, 2018 09:13 PM (yJ1e6)

263 Funny how tastes differ.

I found Samwise and Eowyn to be my least favorite out of the main cast. Fairamir matters far more than I do, hell the Elf who shows up, out of canon, to help defend Helms Deep is preferable.

Eowyn absolutely disobeyed out of a desire for glory and honor. She is the anti-Faramir, to whom duty was greater than his personal desires. Certainly, it worked out well for her to defeat the Witch King but let's be honest here.

For me the movie is about Elrond, Gandalf and Aragorn (though I prefer Fairamir as a character). It is about opposing evil, wherever you find it, no matter how hard it may be. It is to go beyond what is required. To abandon what you love to save what is greater than your own desires. Gandalf gives up his mortality and ultimate the Middle Earth he loves. Elrond gives up his daughter. Aragorn gives up his self, his selfness that kept him as a Ranger instead of taking his seat as King.

And I love the Argornoth so much, I'd move to Utah so I could marry it.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at October 20, 2018 09:14 PM (xJa6I)

264 I've read The Exorcist but I honestly can't remember if I've seen the movie.
And Hillary would make an excellent Pazuzu, except for the diaper. Pazuzu wouldn't have a diaper.

Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 09:14 PM (nBr1j)

265 There is a reason why LoTM is considered a great novel.

Posted by: Grey Fox at October 20, 2018 09:09 PM (bZ7mE)

---
Mark Twain disagrees.

"Fenimore Cooper's literary offenses" is the first full-on fisking in the English language. And it is a thing of beauty.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 09:14 PM (cfSRQ)

266 I agree with your views on Samwise, and would add - Sam represents those people who in the ordinary course of life appear very ordinary and never stand out - gardeners, shopkeepers, people who live ordinary lives in an ordinary way and who never, in an ordinary life, have any reason to display who they can really be. But just as some men turn out in war to be extraordinary heroes under the pressure of battle, men who didn't even know they had that in them, so it is with Sam. The danger and the pressure and the need brings out the qualities in him that never would have been revealed any other way.
Posted by: Tom Servo at October 20, 2018 09:06 PM

That reminds of why I enjoyed Shyamalan's The Lady in the Water even though so many seemed to hate it. The residents of the apartment complex are the type that would never stand out. Until they are caught up in a sort of fairy tale story and find out that each is an archetype within that fairy tale's universe, and they have to rise to the occasion.

Posted by: Hands at October 20, 2018 09:14 PM (786Ro)

267 Fuckin' Purdue keep this up

Posted by: Logprof at October 20, 2018 09:15 PM (9V2Ks)

268 There's a nice subtle addition to that scene with Eowyn in the books, which would have been difficult to explain in the movies so they skipped over it - recall that Merry and Pippin found their swords in the old Barrows in the north. Tolkien explains that these were ancient swords created by the men who had fought the witch-king in antiquity, and they had empowered them with spells to counter his magic. All of that was forgotten untill Merry stabbed the witch king in the back of the knee - he didn't just startle him, the ancient spells on his ancient sword broke down his magical defenses, making him mortal just long enough for Eowyn to thrust the sword through his helmet. I always thought that was a nice bit of subtlety that Tolkien slyly worked into that scene, tying a sword found in book one to one of the greatest battles of book 3.

Posted by: Tom Servo at October 20, 2018 09:16 PM (V2Yro)

269 Posted by: JTB at October 20, 2018 09:12 PM (V+03K)

Sometimes not reading the books works in a person's favor. So for me the movies were an epic journey and wonderful.

Usually when one reads the book first, the movie disappoints, bcz your own imagination does not match up with the script. Also, things are inevitably left out.

Posted by: platypus, gg channel at October 20, 2018 09:16 PM (8VsQb)

270 There's an alternate universe where AH Lloyd gives Michael Bay's Lord of the Rings a 5/10 and says it that the special effects were up to par with the high budget. A mostly forgotten series that was overshadowed by Harry Potter.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at October 20, 2018 09:17 PM (rnAwa)

271 But the Denethor in the books is a shrewd strategist. He lights the beacons, sends the Red Arrow, and summons aid. He's a serious guy.

His shrewdness is in part because of the Palantir. I reread the books about 6 months ago, and it makes clear that he's been looking in it for a long time. It's allowed him to see much, but also despair due to Sauron's influence on his mind. He is bonkers as a result; Jackson gets that part right, but misses the shrewdness and fails to explain what lies behind both qualities.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at October 20, 2018 09:17 PM (H5knJ)

272 The LotR movies? Blecch and Feh.

Saw a really creepy low-budget flick the other day, "The Endless", about two brothers who escaped a UFO death cult a decade ago. Their lives as adults have stalled out and they can't seem to connect to other people. The younger brother, who was a kid when they escaped, actually has somewhat fond memories of his time with the group, who live in a beautiful isolated camp out in the mountains.

Out of the blue they get a VHS tape mailed to them with a message from a girl at the camp. Younger brother begs his brother to go back so that he can get some closure and see for himself what it was like with adult eyes. Older brother reluctantly agrees.

They arrive at the compound and it is as if time hasn't passed at all. The older brother is still very leery of the cheery smiling members, who deny they were ever a death cult -- they are still alive and well, after all. But he senses a watchful, malevolent presence in the curiously isolated community....

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at October 20, 2018 09:17 PM (kQs4Y)

273 "I mean, FFS, how do you omit the Scouring of the Shire? That was pretty much Tolkien's point."

We are in total agreement on this. The. Whole. Point. Of. The. Books.

Posted by: AshevilleRobert at October 20, 2018 09:17 PM (DjIXP)

274 Okay, NERD RAGE is exhausted. I'm going to watch something happy (like maybe FLASH GORDON - heh) to cleanse the palate.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 09:18 PM (cfSRQ)

275 @Grey Fox

Well said!

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at October 20, 2018 09:18 PM (xJa6I)

276 I don't agree with Counsel putting Hader in so early, especially since the pinch hitter was a plunk.

Posted by: grammie winger's in Sedona at October 20, 2018 09:18 PM (5jrWk)

277 Galadriel had that touch of menace to her, she's this ethereal elf but you fvck with her at your peril. Cate Blanchett did a good job conveying that.

Eowyn and Arwen were both annoying.

So was Aragorn's stringy hair which probably took three stylists two hours to arrange just so.

Posted by: JuJuBee, just generally being shamey at October 20, 2018 09:18 PM (2NqXo)

278 I might be in the minority here, but I find the Two Towers to be my favorite movie of the three.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at October 20, 2018 09:19 PM (xJa6I)

279 I don't even pretend to make my comments on topic. Little is at Game 7.

Posted by: grammie winger's in Sedona at October 20, 2018 09:19 PM (5jrWk)

280 Flash Gordon was a perfect movie with no flaws, quite unlike Lord of the Rings.

*snorts moar coak*

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at October 20, 2018 09:19 PM (ykYG2)

281 278 I might be in the minority here, but I find the Two Towers to be my favorite movie of the three.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at October 20, 2018 09:19 PM (xJa6I)

=====

Wrong!

It is one third of a movie.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 09:20 PM (zZbCU)

282 279 I don't even pretend to make my comments on topic. Little is at Game 7.
Posted by: grammie winger's in Sedona at October 20, 2018 09:19 PM (5jrWk)

=======

Next thing you'll tell us is that you didn't read the content.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 09:21 PM (zZbCU)

283 Mark Andrew Edwards, no, you're right. Peter Jackson gave us good reason to care about Rohan and to understand its imminent peril.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at October 20, 2018 09:21 PM (ykYG2)

284 I wish the movies had shown Denethor as he is in the books: a proud, noble, capable leader worn down and then destroyed by Sauron through the Palantir. It would have added depth to the Minas Tirith scenes. Instead, he's reduced to a nasty, hopeless wreck. Greater tragedy and pathos in the books.

Posted by: JTB at October 20, 2018 09:21 PM (V+03K)

285 I might be in the minority here, but I find the Two Towers to be my favorite movie of the three.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at October 20, 2018 09:19 PM

Mine too. And not for the battle scenes. The interplay between Frodo, Sam, and Gollum.

Posted by: Hands at October 20, 2018 09:21 PM (786Ro)

286 This thread is keeping me up, love the movie thread but it's much more fun when I have seen the movie in topic.

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 09:22 PM (T4oHT)

287 "Sleepless"-

considered the last good Dario Argento movie.

You know the drill if you've watched a Dario Argento movie.

Stabby stabby stabby. Who is Stabby Stabbington and why is he/she stabbing?

Some very good scenes early on. Very tense. Full frontal nekkid chick .And...

then it kinda falls apart.

Well directed. Okay acting (Italian acting, you know) Script problems.

See it if you like Argento. Otherwise go see "Deep Red", "Tenebrae", "Phenomena"(a personal fave in-sane[/] finale,) "Suspiria" or "Opera" or "Bird with Crystal Plumage".

Posted by: naturalfake at October 20, 2018 09:22 PM (CRRq9)

288 "I mean, FFS, how do you omit the Scouring of the Shire? That was pretty much Tolkien's point."

Scouring? Like with a Brillo pad?

Posted by: Hillary at October 20, 2018 09:22 PM (2NqXo)

289 279: grammie, rather talk about baseball than lotr.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at October 20, 2018 09:22 PM (KP5rU)

290 BCochran used to do some nice baseball threads.

Posted by: grammie winger's in Sedona at October 20, 2018 09:22 PM (5jrWk)

291 280
Flash Gordon was a perfect movie with no flaws, quite unlike Lord of the Rings.

*snorts moar coak*

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at October 20, 2018 09:19 PM (ykYG2)

---
Flash Gordon didn't take a dump on Tolkien's life work so, yeah, it's better.

Also, I did a guest review on it.

This time fer sure, I'm leavin'.

Till tomorrow, 'rons.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 09:22 PM (cfSRQ)

292 the ancient spells on his ancient sword broke down his magical defenses

"So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dunedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will."

Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 20, 2018 09:22 PM (yQpMk)

293 I hated Tom Bombadil in the book and was glad to see him removed from the film
Mostly because it seemed like a perfect role for Robin Williams.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at October 20, 2018 09:22 PM (l9m7l)

294 265 There is a reason why LoTM is considered a great novel.

Posted by: Grey Fox at October 20, 2018 09:09 PM (bZ7mE)

---
Mark Twain disagrees.

"Fenimore Cooper's literary offenses" is the first full-on fisking in the English language. And it is a thing of beauty.
Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 09:14 PM (cfSRQ)

Mark Twain was a great writer, but he was also an asshole. And probably a coward.

There was a great essay on Cooper that Louis L'Amour wrote. Cooper wasn't a prose stylist but he knew how to create characters.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at October 20, 2018 09:22 PM (xJa6I)

295 234: Thank you for this. I memorized the "Song of Durin" decades ago -- set it to a tune in my head. Really cool to hear this version.

Posted by: Revenant at October 20, 2018 09:22 PM (sryxB)

296 I think The Two Towers is the best of the three

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 09:22 PM (T4oHT)

297 FFS, the bright yellow M&Ms guy is at the game. IIRC I thought he was from Chicago? White Sox fan?

Posted by: Hands at October 20, 2018 09:23 PM (786Ro)

298 I'm here for the movie thread!
And it's LOTR! Yes!

Posted by: AmericanKestrel at October 20, 2018 09:23 PM (IDhUW)

299 289 279: grammie, rather talk about baseball than lotr.
Posted by: chavez the hugo at October 20, 2018 09:22 PM (KP5rU)

Me too chavez. Not a regular Brew Crew fan, but this is fun.

Posted by: grammie winger's in Sedona at October 20, 2018 09:23 PM (5jrWk)

300 Mark Twain disagrees.

"Fenimore Cooper's literary offenses" is the first full-on fisking in the English language. And it is a thing of beauty.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at October 20, 2018 09:14 PM (cfSRQ)

Mark Twain was a good wordsmith, and could tell a funny anecdote. That is about where his talents ended.

Cooper spawned the first uniquely American genre, and introduced an archtype that is still in force today. For all his flaws, it'll be Cooper that is read 200 years from now, not Twain.

Posted by: Grey Fox at October 20, 2018 09:23 PM (bZ7mE)

301 I hated Tom Bombadil in the book and was glad to see him removed from the film
Mostly because it seemed like a perfect role for Robin Williams.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at October 20, 2018 09:22 PM (l9m7l)

This is the only 100% correct comment in the entire thread.

Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 09:23 PM (y87Qq)

302 Posted by: Tom Servo at October 20, 2018 09:16 PM (V2Yro)

Someday I will read the books.

That it took two to slay him adds another level that undergirds how I see it; does not detract.

On a purely surface level, it was nice that Tolkien included a warrior woman, at a time when that wouldn't have been usual...I don't think. There's so many levels in the movies. Most scenes can be mined for values and beliefs. Complex.

Which is why I will read the books someday.

Posted by: platypus, gg channel at October 20, 2018 09:24 PM (8VsQb)

303 I think one of the most powerful part of the books and the movie is where Frodo admits that middle earth was saved for others, but not for him. That true sacrifices must be made for good things to be achieved. But true sacrifices aren't reversible, and the price Frodo has to pay is that he loses any chance of a peaceful or happy life in this world, even though he's victorious. I think many men who have returned from the front lines of a hard fought war would understand that feeling very well.

Posted by: Tom Servo at October 20, 2018 09:24 PM (V2Yro)

304 I gave up on LOTR.

Watching Bandits, with Bruce Willis and Billy Bob, and Cate.

Way more fun.

This dumb movie has not pissed me off once.

Posted by: Pug Mahon at October 20, 2018 09:25 PM (iafLg)

305 Next thing you'll tell us is that you didn't read the content.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 09:21 PM (zZbCU)

My secret is revealed.

Posted by: grammie winger's in Sedona at October 20, 2018 09:25 PM (5jrWk)

306 301 I hated Tom Bombadil in the book and was glad to see him removed from the film
Mostly because it seemed like a perfect role for Robin Williams.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at October 20, 2018 09:22 PM (l9m7l)

This is the only 100% correct comment in the entire thread.
Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 09:23 PM (y87Qq)

Hogmartin throws down the gauntlet!

Taunts the Horde.

*I make popcorn*

Posted by: platypus, gg channel at October 20, 2018 09:25 PM (8VsQb)

307 Jaws the film is far superior to the book.

In the book Hooper and Brodys wife have an affair.

The motivations to keep the beaches open are mob related.

And on and on.

It's a steaming pile of shit.

Posted by: Kreplach at October 20, 2018 09:07 PM

Eh, the book has it's moments. The movie is better because it cuts out most, if not all of the padding in the book. The actual at sea stuff is excellent. The movie also has the Shaw, Dreyfuss, Scheider factor which gives it a huge leg up. The one thing the movie does wrong is having Hooper survive. It's a better story with Hooper dying in the cage and Brodie as the lone survivor.

Posted by: otho at October 20, 2018 09:26 PM (LkFnL)

308 281 278 I might be in the minority here, but I find the Two Towers to be my favorite movie of the three.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at October 20, 2018 09:19 PM (xJa6I)

=====

Wrong!

It is one third of a movie.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 09:20 PM (zZbCU)

It's my favorite third. It hits the ground running, quite literally with elf, dwarf and human running to find their friends.

It has the Uruk Hai, who fucking rock. (Looks like meat's back on the menu!)

It has the charge of the Ents. It has the battle of Helm's Deep. It has Grima Wormtongue and Gandalf confronting him and confronting Sauruman.

And did I mention the Battle of Helm's Deep? The battle that wasn't resolved by hordes of undead, unkillable warriors.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at October 20, 2018 09:26 PM (xJa6I)

309 All Hail Eris,

Loved "The Endless".

Very micro budget but very well done.

Also, saw those two guys previous movies afterward-

"Spring" - European romance meets HP Lovecraft

"Resolution" - sort of a "The Endless" 1.0, the characters show up in "The Endless' not as good as TE but good.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 20, 2018 09:26 PM (CRRq9)

310 I forced myself to read J. F. Cooper's The Deerslayer as well as Last of the Mohicans.

The author should have surrounded himself with all of his "works" poured gasoline on himself and those "works" and lit himself on fire. I have never read anything as badly written, nor been so angry at having wasted my time reading it. Absolute shit.

Posted by: Sharkman at October 20, 2018 09:27 PM (/DDKs)

311 I liked the Deerslayer books. He a white man without cross.

Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 20, 2018 09:28 PM (yQpMk)

312 grammie, it is fun. just wish joe buck was on a cuck cruise in the antarctic.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at October 20, 2018 09:28 PM (KP5rU)

313 For all his flaws, it'll be Cooper that is read 200 years from now, not Twain.

Oh, come to the book thread and start that fight!

It did come up a few weeks ago and discouraged me from starting the Cooper I'd downloaded.

On the other hand, Twain will be read as long as there is an American language.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at October 20, 2018 09:29 PM (fuK7c)

314 I enjoyed Tom Bombadil, it's fun to see one of the Valar vacationing down in the lower realm. They never did pay a whole lot of attention to what was going on with the mortals.

Posted by: Tom Servo at October 20, 2018 09:30 PM (V2Yro)

315 just wish joe buck was on a cuck cruise in the antarctic.
Posted by: chavez the hugo at October 20, 2018 09:28 PM (KP5rU)

Surrounded by large icebergs.

Posted by: grammie winger's in Sedona at October 20, 2018 09:30 PM (5jrWk)

316 re: Éowyn, there's a line I've always liked about complacency and appeasement:

'It needs but one foe to breed a war, not two, Master Warden,' answered Éowyn. 'And those who have not swords can still die upon them.'

There's a Mattis quote that reminds me of it: "No war is over until the enemy says it's over. We may think it over, we may declare it over, but in fact, the enemy gets a vote."

Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 09:30 PM (y87Qq)

317 I put LoTM in my top 10 movies so now feeling bound to take a crack at the book

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 09:30 PM (T4oHT)

318 When you kill an Orc, do they go to The Halls of Mandos?

Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 20, 2018 09:31 PM (yQpMk)

319 I would watch any game with Joe Buck as announcer without any sound playing.

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 09:31 PM (T4oHT)

320 315; and, penguins. many, many, maneating penguins.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at October 20, 2018 09:31 PM (KP5rU)

321 Because that might be awkward.

Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 20, 2018 09:32 PM (yQpMk)

322 313 For all his flaws, it'll be Cooper that is read 200 years from now, not Twain.

Oh, come to the book thread and start that fight!

It did come up a few weeks ago and discouraged me from starting the Cooper I'd downloaded.

On the other hand, Twain will be read as long as there is an American language.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at October 20, 2018 09:29 PM (fuK7c)

I like Tom Sawyer and I like Huck Finn. I even love (N-word...and I hate that I have to say N-word even here) Jim.

But there is something deep in the LotM and the Deerslayer. Something more American that Steamboats and Big Rivers.

I guess one story is about boys within civilization and one is about a man beyond the frontiers.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at October 20, 2018 09:32 PM (xJa6I)

323 it'll be Cooper that is read 200 years from now, not Twain

200 years from now I'm expecting literacy to be restricted to monasteries, and the remnants of America's people to be singing to each other the glorious stories of Obama and MLK.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at October 20, 2018 09:32 PM (ykYG2)

324 My favorite LotR movie is Galadriel Goes Galveston.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at October 20, 2018 09:33 PM (+y/Ru)

325 There is one thing I know for sure about the LoTR movies. Nic Cage, the first choice for the role that went to Viggo M., turned it down. Thank God. He would have ruined the movies.

Posted by: platypus, gg channel at October 20, 2018 09:33 PM (8VsQb)

326 324 My favorite LotR movie is Galadriel Goes Galveston.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at October 20, 2018 09:33 PM (+y/Ru)

Would fap to

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at October 20, 2018 09:33 PM (xJa6I)

327 318 When you kill an Orc, do they go to The Halls of Mandos?

No, they go to the Malls for Band-os.

Posted by: Tom Servo at October 20, 2018 09:33 PM (V2Yro)

328 Speaking of books made into movies, how was Beowulf?

Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 09:34 PM (nBr1j)

329 Nic Cage could have played the Witch King, except he would have worn a leather jacket and had a flaming skull.

Posted by: Tom Servo at October 20, 2018 09:34 PM (V2Yro)

330 The Halls of Mandos would ne a cool metal band name.

Uruk-hai.

Posted by: Sharkman at October 20, 2018 09:35 PM (/DDKs)

331 328 Speaking of books made into movies, how was Beowulf?
Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 09:34 PM (nBr1j)

======

I really like it, but it's more of a thesis deconstruction of the story than a straight adaptation.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone, buy The Battle of Lake Erie today! at October 20, 2018 09:36 PM (zZbCU)

332 There is one thing I know for sure about the LoTR movies. Nic Cage, the first choice for the role that went to Viggo M., turned it down. Thank God. He would have ruined the movies.
Posted by: platypus, gg channel at October 20, 2018 09:33 PM (8VsQb)

AHAHAHAHAHA ayfkm, was that on the table for real? Are you just goofing?

I want to vacation in the timeline where everything else is the same except Nic Cage is Aragorn. I'll bring back some bootleg copies if anybody wants one.

Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 09:36 PM (y87Qq)

333 Wow Cougs are taking Quackers to the woodshed.

I love it.

Posted by: Logprof at October 20, 2018 09:36 PM (9V2Ks)

334 I always enjoyed the Tom Bombadil parts of the Fellowship. They contributed to the universe that Tolkien created, not just the specific story. I suspect the character, and Goldbury, contributed to the Hippies enthusiasm for LOTR. (Anyone else remember those psychodelic wall posters and buttons with "Frodo Lives".)

Posted by: JTB at October 20, 2018 09:36 PM (V+03K)

335 https://youtu.be/7ycEXkNQlWs
LoTM turns metal
One of my favorite while painting

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 09:36 PM (T4oHT)

336 330 The Halls of Mandos would ne a cool metal band name.

Uruk-hai.

Uruk-hai would definitely have been better than Uriah Heep.

Posted by: Tom Servo at October 20, 2018 09:36 PM (V2Yro)

337 In the Battletech board game, there was a merc unit called "The Fighting Uruk Hai".

Doubt that would fly nowadays.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at October 20, 2018 09:38 PM (xJa6I)

338 Oh, come to the book thread and start that fight!

It did come up a few weeks ago and discouraged me from starting the Cooper I'd downloaded.

On the other hand, Twain will be read as long as there is an American language.

I was there and said the same thing then.

Twain was a good stylist and good at snark, and snark is in fashion in these degenerate times. Cooper may have been every bit as bad as Twain makes him out to be, but the story telling and the philosophical concepts he was grappling with were far deeper and more interesting than Twain, and Cooper's influence has reached deep into American literature and film. A lot of John Wayne's characters are reworkings of Natty Bumppo, for example.

As for difficulty, I read them and greatly enjoyed them at age 12.

Posted by: Grey Fox at October 20, 2018 09:38 PM (bZ7mE)

339 160 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?
Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:39 PM (2DOZq)
-------------------------------------------
Off the top of my head:
To Kill a Mockingbird --- The movie was very faithful to the book and equally good.
A Night to Remember --- ditto

Oddly enough --- (because I usually hate it when Hollywood prettifies a movie ending) --- I much prefer the movie The Natural to the book.
That final moment of redemption for the washed-up, penitent hero is deservedly classic.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at October 20, 2018 09:38 PM (Rxduq)

340 Nic Cage could have played the Witch King, except he would have worn a leather jacket and had a flaming skull.
Posted by: Tom Servo at October 20, 2018 09:34 PM (V2Yro)

Plus, done his lines in that voice from Peggy Sue got Married. He is one weird dude.

Posted by: platypus, gg channel at October 20, 2018 09:38 PM (8VsQb)

341 @294

There was a great essay on Cooper that Louis L'Amour wrote. Cooper wasn't a prose stylist but he knew how to create characters.

--------------------------------

I read a fisking of Twain's fisking a while back that noted some of Twain's complaints about Cooper were purely provincial. For instance, Twain apparently complained about how the rivers were depicted in Cooper's writing, because Twain knew that rivers weren't like that. The problem for Twain was that apparently rivers *were* like that... if you lived in the part of the country that Cooper lived in.

Posted by: junior at October 20, 2018 09:39 PM (ZNS7p)

342 Are there any movies out there that are better than the video game?
/sn

Posted by: The One Who Ends Comment Threads at October 20, 2018 09:40 PM (MceDl)

343 The "Das Boot" series will be in German in Europe (Sky Network). Who knows when/if it will get here.
Posted by: RS at October 20, 2018 08:12 PM (CNQqJ)

Sky partnered with Cinemax to distribute Strike Back on the US market. This may come the same way.

Posted by: Vanya at October 20, 2018 09:40 PM (7PLM4)

344 I've read LoTR three times; twice in high school, and once more recently. Previously, I really disliked Bombadil. I did not this time; he seemed okay. I get why he was cut from the movie and don't really hold that against Jackson. But the entire first half of Fellowship of the Ring is the journey from the Shire to Rivendell. Most of this is absent from the movie.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at October 20, 2018 09:41 PM (H5knJ)

345 The Beowulf movie is quite bad, but I admire that it fully commits to the premise. The cast is excellent. The soundtrack by Alan Silvestri is fun.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at October 20, 2018 09:41 PM (rnAwa)

346
The Halls of Mandos would ne a cool metal band name.

Mandos the band of fate.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 20, 2018 09:41 PM (4mUNO)

347 The Harry Potter movies must have been as good as the books, bcz the fans would have enraged otherwise. However, as far as I know, that did not happen. That is pretty remarkable.

Posted by: platypus, gg channel at October 20, 2018 09:41 PM (8VsQb)

348 342

Goodnight all

Posted by: Skip at October 20, 2018 09:42 PM (T4oHT)

349 Speaking of books made into movies, how was Beowulf?
Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 09:34 PM (nBr1j)

The 3D one with Angelina Jolie? It was poop.

Posted by: Vanya at October 20, 2018 09:42 PM (7PLM4)

350 346
The Halls of Mandos would ne a cool metal band name.

Mandos the band of fate.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 20, 2018 09:41 PM (4mUNO)

And with that, I'm off to watch some MST3K...

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at October 20, 2018 09:43 PM (xJa6I)

351 342 Are there any movies out there that are better than the video game?
/sn

ET

Posted by: Tom Servo at October 20, 2018 09:43 PM (V2Yro)

352 There is one thing I know for sure about the LoTR movies. Nic Cage, the first choice for the role that went to Viggo M., turned it down. Thank God. He would have ruined the movies.
Posted by: platypus, gg channel at October 20, 2018 09:33 PM (8VsQb)

AHAHAHAHAHA ayfkm, was that on the table for real? Are you just goofing?

I want to vacation in the timeline where everything else is the same except Nic Cage is Aragorn. I'll bring back some bootleg copies if anybody wants one.
Posted by: hogmartin at October 20, 2018 09:36 PM (y87Qq)

It's for realz. I was in shock when I read it. I think it may have been in an interview with Peter Jackson. It's been over 5 years, so memory is foggy. Nic Cage not being in that movie is proof God loves us.

Posted by: platypus, gg channel at October 20, 2018 09:44 PM (8VsQb)

353 Drinking sotol tonight.

Sort of like tequila's mad cousin who's kept chained updown in the basement-

and fed raw chicken heads.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 20, 2018 09:45 PM (CRRq9)

354 Sam:

One of my favorite characters and I like to see character development, so your take on his story arc interests me. I think I agree with you. We didn't see change in his character, we saw the depth of his strength.
----

Sam himself, though, never really changes. He's as dedicated to Frodo at the beginning of the movie as he is at the end. He doesn't The moment that he takes that one last step that takes him the furthest from home he's ever been in the first part, is equally as brave as when Sam charges into Cirith Ungol alone in search of Frodo.

Posted by: AmericanKestrel at October 20, 2018 09:45 PM (IDhUW)

355 Now I have a hankering to re-read LOTR.

And all the Dune books.
But, I'm currently on the last book of Robin Hobb's Farseer Trilogy.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at October 20, 2018 09:46 PM (8iiMU)

356 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?
Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:39 PM (2DOZq)

Princess Bride

Posted by: votermom pimping NEW Moron-authored books! at October 20, 2018 09:47 PM (dMvl+)

357 I'm mostly asking questions tonight. Has anything ever been done on the Foundation Series?

Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 09:48 PM (nBr1j)

358 I'll never get tired of hurting you, Nazgul.

Posted by: Nic Cage IS Aragorn at October 20, 2018 09:48 PM (H5knJ)

359 160 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?
Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:39 PM (2DOZq)

Hitchcock's Lady Vanishes. Every single thing to like about the movie came from Hitchock. Other than the fact of Miss Froy's disappearance, he changed the whole thing. The reason, the method, characters, everything. And he added the British cricketers.

When I finally read The Thin Man, it was a disappointment. Powell and Loy are immeasurably better than Nick and Nora in the book.

Posted by: Eeyore, fomerly George LeS at October 20, 2018 09:49 PM (59GGI)

360 357 I'm mostly asking questions tonight. Has anything ever been done on the Foundation Series?"

It's been talked about a few times, I think, but I think nobody's had the nerve to actually take on the scope of it.

Supposedly somebody is going to try to make Childhood's End, by Clarke. Not sure if they can pull it off.

Posted by: Tom Servo at October 20, 2018 09:49 PM (V2Yro)

361 323
200 years from now I'm expecting literacy to be restricted to monasteries, and the remnants of America's people to be singing to each other the glorious stories of Obama and MLK.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at October 20, 2018 09:32 PM (ykYG2)
----------------------
I wonder if there will be monasteries in the US.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at October 20, 2018 09:50 PM (Rxduq)

362 ont

Posted by: concrete girl at October 20, 2018 09:50 PM (iF2CZ)

363 357
I'm mostly asking questions tonight. Has anything ever been done on the Foundation Series?

Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 09:48 PM (nBr1j)

I'd like to see Rothfuss' "Kingkiller Chronicles" be made into a movie/movies. Of course, I'd like to see the third book finished first.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at October 20, 2018 09:50 PM (8iiMU)

364 Speaking of books made into movies, how was Beowulf?
Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 09:34 PM (nBr1j)

Angelina Jolie prepped for the role by not shaving her legs for a month... :-P

Posted by: qdpsteve at October 20, 2018 09:50 PM (miE9U)

365 While I generally enjoy the LotR EE trilogy, there are some things that chap my ass:

1. Everyone falls off a damn cliff. There's two, maybe three times where people fall in the books -- Balrog and Gandalf, Gollum at the end, and I think Frodo and Sam in the hills after they leave the Fellowship. In the movies people are falling off cliffs even in places where there can be no cliffs.

2. Elves at Helms Deep. The Last Alliance was the last alliance due to the fact that it was the last alliance. PJ needs to look up the meaning of the word 'last.'

3. Faramir. I get that they didn't want him to just be like, "ooooo nice magic ring, no biggie, off you go" but what they did ended up making him a moron. Now in the movies he send Frodo along after witnessing him trying to hand the damned thing over to a ringwraith on a giant bat. Gollum torture was not accurate, either.

4. I miss the scouring of the shire bit, too, it would have been great for the extended editions at least. But I can actually give a pass on this one, mostly. Maybe if they had cut some of the completely extraneous falling-off-of-cliffs scenes they would have had room for it.

Posted by: The Atom Bomb of Loving Kindness at October 20, 2018 09:50 PM (lXZ2r)

366 When you kill an Orc, do they go to The Halls of Mandos?

IDK. But when you kill a Torgo, he goes to The Halls of Manos. It's fate.

Posted by: Hands at October 20, 2018 09:50 PM (786Ro)

367 The Scouring of the Shire. I disagree that this is the point of the books. It's actually one of the more infuriating things about Return of the King. The only reason is ever happens is because they foolishly refuse to put Saruman to death when they encounter him on the road. Remarkably dumb. Comic-book morality dumb, given that they've watched their world be damn near torn down by the likes of Saruman by this point.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at October 20, 2018 09:51 PM (H5knJ)

368 313 For all his flaws, it'll be Cooper that is read 200 years from now, not Twain.

Oh, come to the book thread and start that fight!

It did come up a few weeks ago and discouraged me from starting the Cooper I'd downloaded.

On the other hand, Twain will be read as long as there is an American language.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at October 20, 2018 09:29 PM (fuK7c)

As long as there are SJW's , the chance Twain will be forgotten is better than not.

Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 09:52 PM (2DOZq)

369 When you kill an Orc, do they go to The Halls of Mandos?

-
I've seen some in Walnart.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at October 20, 2018 09:52 PM (+y/Ru)

370 Speaking of books made into movies, how was Beowulf?
Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 09:34 PM (nBr1j)

======

I really like it, but it's more of a thesis deconstruction of the story than a straight adaptation.

Adapting Beowulf to film is going to be really quite difficult, because the heart of the story isn't the big action sequences with monsters. It is the constant allusions to the other stories that the original poet expected his audience to be familiar with - Finn and Hengist, Hrothgar's feud and the burning of the hall Hereot, and the Swedish-Geatish feud.

Everything Beowulf does, every victory he wins against nature, is eventually going to be undone and rendered useless, because everyone ends up being killed in some stupid cycle of vengeance between royal families that can never, however hard people try, be resolved peaceably once the killing has started.

Despite modern glosses, Beowulf is a hero is in purest sense - brave, honorable, unselfish, and eager to seek out opportunities to fight evil - and yet ultimately at best he can only win temporary respite from the forces of darkness.

A story like that doesn't work with modern film - Hollywood can't stand true heroes, audiences want a happy ending, and both are more interested in CGI monsters than they are the fact that Hrothgar's daughter is being married off to her father's enemy to try to secure a lasting peace.

Posted by: Grey Fox at October 20, 2018 09:53 PM (bZ7mE)

371 Eowyn:

Again one of my favorite characters. The actress didn't fit my mental description but she quickly convinced me that she was Eowyn. Her lines were mostly straight From the book and her speechs with Aragorn about "those without swords" and "til use and old age" we're delivered perfectly. Her " I am no man" would have had different intonation if I were diecting

Posted by: AmericanKestrel at October 20, 2018 09:55 PM (IDhUW)

372 339 160 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?
Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:39 PM (2DOZq)
-------------------------------------------
Off the top of my head:
To Kill a Mockingbird --- The movie was very faithful to the book and equally good.
A Night to Remember --- ditto

Oddly enough --- (because I usually hate it when Hollywood prettifies a movie ending) --- I much prefer the movie The Natural to the book.
That final moment of redemption for the washed-up, penitent hero is deservedly classic.
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at October 20, 2018 09:38 PM (Rxduq)

I had forgot about The Natural. I agree with you 100%.

Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 09:55 PM (2DOZq)

373 Boilermakers!!

Posted by: Logprof at October 20, 2018 09:56 PM (g6ouB)

374 Oh, yes. Birth of a Nation is a lot better than The Klansman. If they think the former is racist, they should read the latter.

Posted by: Eeyore, fomerly George LeS at October 20, 2018 09:56 PM (59GGI)

375
154 Oh yeah, Bored of the Rings. Legolam was the best name.

And Gimlet. The two of them constantly at each other's throats with hammer and tongs.

"A curse of the Elves and their punk grub!"

"And on the Dwarves, whose taste is all in their mouths."

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at October 20, 2018 09:58 PM (6ZPd7)

376 284�I wish the movies had shown Denethor as he is in the books: a proud, noble, capable leader worn down and then destroyed by Sauron through the Palantir. It would have added depth to the Minas Tirith scenes. Instead, he's reduced to a nasty, hopeless wreck. Greater tragedy and pathos in the books.

Posted by: JTB at October 20, 2018 09:21 PM (V+03K)

It's not like you couldn't have gotten an actor to make it compelling, either. Think of it: Patrick Stewart vs Ian McKellen. Dude has the gravitas and the range to pull it off. You wouldn't even need dialogue beyond what was in the books.

It is impossible to say that this movie was genius in so many ways, perhaps the last true genius Hollywood put out, yet there were so many missed opportunities.

Posted by: trev006 at October 20, 2018 09:59 PM (qbU78)

377 @354 One of my favorite characters and I like to see character development,
so your take on his story arc interests me. I think I agree with you. We
didn't see change in his character, we saw the depth of his strength.

---------------------

I think that's a lot of the point, though - at least to Tolkien. Sam's nobody. He's in a group surrounded by warriors. Even the other hobbits, though they're not warriors, are all well-to-do individuals. They're all the characters who, at the start, you would assume will be the heroes of the story.

And then there's Sam, the gardener. For much of the US, he'd be the illegal alien that takes care of the landscaping (albeit one apparently on pretty good terms with one of his employers). He's a nobody, who's beneath notice.

And yet, at the end of the books, he's the only ringbearer still in Middle-Earth. He single-handedly storms a tower full of orcs simply because he knows that it needs to be done. He's the one who mortally wounds Shelob, who is considered to be one of THE great menaces still remaining in Middle-Earth. Aside from Aragorn (the king), he's the only one who "gets the girl". He even sees the ring on Galadriel's finger (he tells Frodo that he saw a star on her finger).

Merry and Pippin (particularly Pippin) both have maturing that they have to do before they become heroes, and Merry almost dies as a result of his great accomplishment. Frodo is pretty much mentally and emotionally ruined due to the time he spent carrying the ring. But Sam the Gardener is already Sam the Hero. And that was Tolkien's point.

On a side note, the Ring's attempt to tempt Sam is one of the more amusing scenes in the story. Even the Ring doesn't quite know what to make of him.

Posted by: junior at October 20, 2018 09:59 PM (ZNS7p)

378 Rolled up to Games Workshop today for a promotion (500th store worldwide opened and they released two commemorative figures), saw this in the window:

https://tinyurl.com/yaxy3bld
and immediately demanded that my husband tell me what LOTR event was going on. (Came verrrry close to buying the game.) So yes, I love this movie trilogy. When I saw ROTK at its midnight release, two things got the audience to cheer: "I am no man!" and "I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you! COME ON!"

Posted by: pookysgirl at October 20, 2018 10:00 PM (XKZwp)

379 I'm trying to decide which was better-Shoeless Joe by W.P. Kinsella or Field of Dreams.
I'm going to say the book but honestly I'm not confident.

Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 10:02 PM (nBr1j)

380 The first LTR movie is the only movie that I have ever walked out of from a theater. The CGI was tedious and upsetting to the stomach.

But the final straw was when some character shouted out something to the effect that "It's the Balrog!", whereupon my wife and I spontaneously said, in Monty Python style, "Oh great!"

At that point, we both realized that we had forever given up on the franchise. A pity as she had actually learned how to read elvish and had loved the books.

Posted by: MichiCanuck at October 20, 2018 10:02 PM (xgKf4)

381 323
200 years from now I'm expecting literacy to be restricted to monasteries, and the remnants of America's people to be singing to each other the glorious stories of Obama and MLK.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at October 20, 2018 09:32 PM (ykYG2)

I wish I could say you were wrong.

Posted by: rickl at October 20, 2018 10:03 PM (sdi6R)

382 On a side note, the Ring's attempt to tempt Sam is one of the more amusing scenes in the story. Even the Ring doesn't quite know what to make of him.
---
What scene are you referring to here?

Posted by: AmericanKestrel at October 20, 2018 10:03 PM (IDhUW)

383 5 to 1 in the 6th oof!

Posted by: Cheribebe at October 20, 2018 10:04 PM (fnWQo)

384 381 323
200 years from now I'm expecting literacy to be restricted to monasteries, and the remnants of America's people to be singing to each other the glorious stories of Obama and MLK.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at October 20, 2018 09:32 PM (ykYG2)

In 500 years a book will be written How the Horde Saved Civilization.

Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 10:04 PM (nBr1j)

385 Woo-hoo! My old man's back from a few months in the Aleutians. I made him and my mom dinner. I'm a lousy cook, so the food sucked, but it was better than the nasty shite they feed him on that rock, so he did not complain

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at October 20, 2018 10:05 PM (5aX2M)

386 ) So yes, I love this movie trilogy. When I saw ROTK at its midnight release, two things got the audience to cheer: "I am no man!" and "I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you! COME ON!"
----
Sam's delivery was spot on.

Posted by: AmericanKestrel at October 20, 2018 10:05 PM (IDhUW)

387 The lotR series sucked so bad I've never watched the last episode or any of the Hobbit nonsense.

Nothing but the original books, that live in your imagination, as opposed to a corporation film made by committee, can ever do justice to the world Tolkien introduces the reader to.

Posted by: Deacon Bleau at October 20, 2018 10:05 PM (yScAF)

388 In 500 years a book will be written How the Horde Saved Civilization.
Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 10:04 PM

It's a cookbook!

Posted by: Hands at October 20, 2018 10:06 PM (786Ro)

389 Speaking of books made into movies, how was Beowulf?

There have been a handful. The one with naked Angelina Jolie had an interesting twist.

There was a really good one that was made in Iceland with all natural effects.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at October 20, 2018 10:06 PM (fuK7c)

390 What scene are you referring to here?

Posted by: AmericanKestrel at October 20, 2018 10:03 PM (IDhUW)

The scene where the Ring tries to offer Sam the title of Ultimate Gardener, able to break down the walls of Mordor and restore life to barren soil.

Speaking as someone with great sympathy for terraforming dead earth, I can't really scoff at this. But it was wasted on Sam, who thought mainly of his own village, his own plot of earth. And had too much damn sense to take more power than he could safely wield.

I wonder if Sam would have made different decisions if he knew the Shire had been ruined. I suspect not.

Posted by: trev006 at October 20, 2018 10:06 PM (qbU78)

391

In 500 years a book will be written How the Horde Saved Civilization.
------
Made me laugh

Posted by: AmericanKestrel at October 20, 2018 10:07 PM (IDhUW)

392 and immediately demanded that my husband tell me what LOTR event was going on. (Came verrrry close to buying the game.)

-------------------

GW has had the license to make games out of the movies for a very long time. Their support for it, on the other hand, has been pretty erratic. They just rolled out a new edition of the War of the Ring mass combat game, though, iirc. And many of the figures look quite good.

Posted by: junior at October 20, 2018 10:08 PM (ZNS7p)

393
Goldbury, contributed to the Hippies enthusiasm for LOTR

"Hashberry" in BOTR

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at October 20, 2018 10:08 PM (6ZPd7)

394 watching "The Bride" a remake of Bride of Frankenstein -with Sting. He must have HATED losing his hair, he sports a luxurious golden 'do in this...

Posted by: vivi at October 20, 2018 10:08 PM (11H2y)

395 Ya know what I think there have been movie versions of Dracula that are better than the book. I find the book more weird than frightening.

Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 10:09 PM (nBr1j)

396 And I loved LOTR but wanted to tell Aragorn to wash his damn hair..

Posted by: vivi at October 20, 2018 10:09 PM (11H2y)

397 Also, ONT nood

Posted by: junior at October 20, 2018 10:10 PM (ZNS7p)

398 I never read Lord of the Rings. Husband loved it as did son. I went to see the movies with them but had no idea what was going on. Just enjoyed it as a movie, no prejudice on what I thought it shoud look like. I enjoyed the movies and still haven't read the books

Posted by: Abby at October 20, 2018 10:11 PM (wMCY6)

399 FWIW, Return of the King was the last movie I saw in a theater. That might say something about me but more likely movies in the last decade or two.

Posted by: JTB at October 20, 2018 10:12 PM (V+03K)

400 One of the things I liked about the spaghetti westerns is how grubby everything was. I think I can be made that Aragorn should be dirty, with all that fighting and nights in the fields. But yes his hair was filthy.

Posted by: Northernlurker being f'n insufferable at October 20, 2018 10:12 PM (nBr1j)

401 Woo-hoo! My old man's back from a few months in the Aleutians. I made him and my mom dinner. I'm a lousy cook, so the food sucked, but it was better than the nasty shite they feed him on that rock, so he did not complain
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at October 20, 2018 10:05

That was kind of you. Really how bad could it suck? You did them a nice favor, I'm sure they loved it.

Posted by: Farmer at October 20, 2018 10:15 PM (yJ1e6)

402 I do wish they had used someine else to play Aragorn. I always pictured him as taller, more imposing. This isn't a comment about Mortensen's acting, just his appearence.

Posted by: JTB at October 20, 2018 10:16 PM (V+03K)

403 And many of the figures look quite good.

Posted by: junior at October 20, 2018 10:08 PM (ZNS7p)

I got to see them out of the box. Even unpainted, they look amazing.

Posted by: pookysgirl at October 20, 2018 10:27 PM (XKZwp)

404 160 Has there been a movie made from a book that was as good or better than the book?
Posted by: Lancelot Link Secret Agent Chimp at October 20, 2018 08:39 PM (2DOZq)
Fahrenheit 451
Both the book and the movie stand on their own I believe. Unfortunately, most people now mistake the theme as simply one of government censorship of books they don't approve of, when in reality society wants the books gone because the ideas in them are the danger. Ideas interfere with the human desire to tune in, tune out and dropout and live in a soma cocoon (Bradbury's utopia meets Brave New World[/] and it's really dystopia.

Posted by: Deacon Bleau at October 20, 2018 10:36 PM (yScAF)

405

Posted by: Deacon Bleau at October 20, 2018 10:37 PM (yScAF)

406 14 years and now I get the barrel.

Posted by: Deacon Bleau at October 20, 2018 10:38 PM (yScAF)

407 @406 14 years and now I get the barrel.

------------------

Nah, it didn't affect a post made by anyone else.

And given that your namestamp wasn't italicized, it got dealt with before it reached the next post.

Posted by: junior at October 20, 2018 10:43 PM (ZNS7p)

408 I echo the praise for the Rohan theme. Best melody of the series!

I also want to single out the Cave Troll fight as one of the best team-fight-scenes I've ever seen. It helps that the movie had been so sparing in action up to that point; impersonal flashbacks of a video game cut scene, a spooky guy on a horse, tentacles from an off-screen monster...and then, boom; an all-team bloody fight with hideous orcs in full makeup, the sudden absence of music once the fight begins, everyone having something to do, a great use of the (very enclosed) environment....Yeah, there is a moment or two when Legolas is clearly cgi, but the cave troll itself still looks great.

Posted by: Castle Guy at October 20, 2018 10:50 PM (Lhaco)

409 Favorite scene from the extended version of the The Towers Two is when Saruman confronts Frodo on the rooftop of Orthanc:

Saruman: Frodo, I am your father.

Frodo: Noooooooooooooo!

Posted by: stuporfan at October 20, 2018 11:26 PM (H5knJ)

410 > Samwise has character development, but once again it is in the boring after bit, where he stands up as a hero of the Shire, and gets Rosie Cotton, the hot barmaid.

Arwen, Eowyn, and Galadriel may be more conventionally beautiful, but I'd bet money Rosie is the best one in bed.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at October 21, 2018 12:10 AM (vOkuK)

411 When I first read the Lord of the Rings in high school, I loved that scene with Eowyn and the Nazgul "But no living man am I! You look upon a woman." I tried to draw it many times. When I saw it in the movies, I felt like it was a scene I had been waiting my whole life to see. I wish they could have left in more of the original dialog, but you can't have everything.

Posted by: Nancy at 7000 ft at October 21, 2018 12:24 AM (Nrxta)

412 "The Lord of the Rings" is about death and transcendence, and that's why it calls to our souls. J.R.R. Tolkien was a devout Catholic, and a veteran of the Great War: he knew it all too well. And he loved the West, and England.
The movie couldn't be made today: the Enemy would bastardize it. Even at the time, I remember seeing a nasty little gibe in Time magazine that the Orcs were meant to represent black people because all the heroes were white. (Do they never hear their own racism? they see a chalk-white Orc and some gray ones, and "Black People!" immediately leaps to their tiny little minds).
Sigh.
But the movie got through the gates before the Way Was Shut.

Posted by: Beverly at October 21, 2018 01:50 AM (kMEm+)

413 But I was disappointed in the movies. They were much better than I expected them to be, and they got a lot of things right, but the battle scenes had too many shots that were just patently fake, so in violation of the laws of basic physics, that it was distracting (like Legolas leaping from elephant to elephant without showing any consistent relationship to gravitational force). I'm a sailor, and I know about Newton's law in my bones: when something with mass is thrown, it doesn't just Stop without any jarring effect.
The changes the writers and director made in the story just didn't work for me, either. Bombadil was fascinating to me because he was the Eldest, and the Council of Rivendell discussed him as possibly being a keeper of the Ring. Touches like that, which Tolkien layered into his tale, gave hints of older and deeper and stranger mysteries just beyond the borders of the story. You really feel, on reading the books, that you're reading a tale of the Decline of the West, and far-off echoes of ancient grandeur whisper down the hallways....
But they are in the here and now, and they have to make do with what's left.

The Scouring of the Shire was a marvelous way of showing how the hobbit adventurers had grown. And it answered the riddle of whatever became of Saruman. Of course, Frodo could never really fit back into his beloved Shire, so he had to [die] go to the Grey Havens with the other heroes.

Love, love the books. But I always thought the best calvary charge music ever written is the opening 3 minutes of Shostakovich's 5th Symphony:
https://tinyurl.com/yawqruxu
[When Bernstein the NY Phil. played this in Moscow, the audience leaped to their feet with a thunderous ovation.]

Posted by: Beverly at October 21, 2018 02:18 AM (kMEm+)

414 Mr. RFH and I saw Gosnell last night. Haunting. Not gory. Nick Searcy did a good job.

Posted by: roamingfirehydrant at October 21, 2018 06:43 AM (THS4q)

415 I don't disagree with anything you've posted. So ... what happened to 'The Hobbit?'

That series feels like the work of an artist in serious decline. Much of the magic described here was missing in those films, replaced by bloat and a lack of purpose. Is it simply the thinner source material? Many artists lose their mojo ... but Jackson's creative drop stunned me.

Posted by: Christian Toto at October 21, 2018 08:43 AM (JAfNl)

416 The LoTR is the movie where you really do have to wait for the volcano scene.

Posted by: Grump928(C) has drink taken at October 21, 2018 09:03 AM (yQpMk)

417 One of the greatest movies of all time, IMHO.

Posted by: Jeffersonian at October 21, 2018 09:39 AM (xiOrX)

418 Thank you for this.

Posted by: boure at October 21, 2018 11:30 AM (KXQr+)

419 In the middle of reading this post, I said to my husband... this is killing me! This guy is talking about 2 of my absolute favorite things about LOTR... the Rohan music, my favorite motif and the scene where Eowyn kills the Witch-King. Speaking of visual affects... the Lighting of the Beacons scene is just incredible to me, love the concept of it's existence in that world and how PJ was able to convey it for the moviegoer... gets me every time.

Posted by: KK at October 21, 2018 11:32 AM (JkxSS)

420 First film of the trilogy was well done, second was freaking godawful and deserves beatings with a knout, the third was slightly better but left off the most engaging and appealing part of the books (scourging of the shire) for an interminable series of faux-endings that test your bladder's strength in the theater.

All of it was beautifully made and designed, directed, acted, and filmed but the tragic rape of the books to match Peter Jackson's vision rather than Tolkien's deserves contempt and brutal beatings.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at October 21, 2018 12:55 PM (39g3+)

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