Saturday Evening Movie Thread (Sunday Edition) [Hosted By: TheJamesMadison]

Star Trek Discovery

Star Trek Discovery 01.jpg

This show is wrong.

I don't mean morally (it's way too muddled for that kind of judgment), but wrong in terms of basic storytelling techniques. It's not that the show is poorly written, it's that the show's creative team doesn't seem to understand how to tell a story.

There are missed opportunities everywhere. There are the beginnings of interesting set ups that go nowhere. There are the seeds of fascinating character ideas that end up just getting spelled out explicitly in dialogue, killing any sense of subtlety. Characters seem to change from one minute to the next for completely inexplicable reasons.

And the show has a 90ish% on Rotten Tomatoes. Now, TV reviews are different from movie reviews. If you watch a movie you hate, it's over in 2 hours and you write your review. There's no further investment of your time after that. If you hate a TV show and are normal (as opposed to yours truly who is crazy), you're not going to revisit it, so those people reviewing a show towards its end tend to like it more than those who don't keep with it. Those who don't keep with it, don't review it.

That being said though, I see this show as being so inept at basic storytelling that I am flabbergasted that it has much of any body of defenders at all. I talk about this show with two friends of mine at work. One (call him Tim), is about my age and is full-on Trekkie. The other (call him Alan), is about a decade older than me and is more broadly a comic book fan with a Star Trek interest. Both like this show to some degree, although my constant complaining about the show has gotten Tim to admit that it's not good. Still, he defends it to a degree while Alan is happy to cheer it on. And I just do not understand. It's bad. It's terrible. It's…wrong.


An Introduction

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I grew up watching The Next Generation with my father. I've seen every hour of filmed canon Star Trek (including Discovery now), and I greatly appreciate it for what it is: techno-fantasy with a social aspect. After 700 hours, it's hard to define what that actually means. You have the weird fantasy origins of "The Cage" through the dirty war serial that was the later seasons of Deep Space Nine to the action-adventure Star Wars knock-off that was the J.J. Abrams movies, and I've quite enjoyed every incarnation of the property from beginning to end.

I'm not blind to the faults of certain parts of it, though. While my favorite single season of Star Trek is Voyager's fifth season, that show's first season is unwatchably bad. The show has strayed very far from its origins, but usually ends up being pretty good wherever it goes.

That being said, I wasn't particularly excited about Discovery when CBS first announced it. The show looked flashy and expensive, but the behind the scene's drama told me that something was wrong. But still, Dolley subscribes to CBS All-Access already, so I decided to check it out when it first aired. All it cost me was 90 minutes for the pilot. I knew something was deeply wrong with the show for sure then.


Main Characters

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Star Trek has a tradition of large casts (usually about and about 24 episodes a season. That means that each character tends to get at least a couple of episodes a season where they are the main focus of the A story (with a B story playing out elsewhere because episodic television must follow the dumbest trope ever at all times, apparently). The shows did this in order to help fill out 24 hours of television a year. If each episode is just "major plot element outside of the ship is doing something", then it gets old fast, but by providing outlets for each character you create stories that have focus and can help illuminate something new about the world around it.

Discovery decided to use one main character, and everyone else is a supporting character. That means that literally every episode has Michael Burnham as the main lead, no matter how important she is to the actual plot of the story or whether there's anything interesting to add to her character.

The worst offender is Episode 5, titled "Choose Your Pain". You won't need the deep detail of the show to follow along, but I'll need to cover some general things. First, the USS Discovery is trying to get a new type of transportation to work that will automatically move the ship from one place to another. The crew has discovered that they need some kind of biological entity to make the drive work, but there are serious risks to whatever creature gets used. At the end of the fifth episode, the chief engineer decides to hook himself into the machine and gets the drive to work in a crisis situation.

It's a great moment of self-sacrifice for the chief engineer. That kind of decision should derive from a careful weighing of personal risk versus the needs of the ship. It's a moral dilemma (nothing new to Star Trek fans), and it should have a significant presence in the episode. The character who goes through this should be the focus of the episode, but the chief engineer is in roughly five minutes of it. This character, who should be at the front and center, is barely in it. Instead, we have the captain on a Klingon ship getting to know Harry Mudd (a wonderful Rainn Wilson, by the way) for the sole purpose of revealing a bit of his backstory and introducing a new character while Michael Burnham manages the engineer. We honestly spend more time with Burnham managing than with the engineer (named Stamets) actually doing it.

If you might have noticed, it seems like a lot happens in this episode, and it does. It's overstuffed with junk. Harry Mudd, new character, established character's backstory, stuff about flashes of torture from Klingons, new Klingon character, more stuff about the war, and then all the stuff with the spore drive on Discovery. It can't settle to just actually tell a story.


Mirror, Mirror

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Do you happen to remember how previous incarnations of Star Trek dealt with the Mirror universe? In the six previous series, it appeared in only three: The Original Series, Deep Space Nine, and Enterprise. Well, Discovery decided to jump in with both feet for a four episode arc in its second half, and it did it completely wrong.

Just taking five seconds to think about the Mirror Universe shows how completely silly the whole idea is. An alternate universe where everyone in a given show exists in pretty much the same place as the regular universe, but everything is completely different. Go back to the original episode, "Mirror, Mirror" and the setup is ridiculous. In two universes, the same ship is orbiting the same planet while the same away team is beaming up from the same spot through the same ion storm at the same time. It beggars belief, but The Original Series is campy and filled with silly things, so the setup of this particular episode being silly isn't debilitating.

Look at the other iterations of the Mirror Universe, and it's obvious what the purpose of it is: To provide the actors a way to act against type and chew scenery. In Deep Space Nine it was to put Nana Visitor into a skin tight leather suit and have her act like a vamp while in Enterprise it was to give Scott Bakula a scar on his face as he growled every line. The DS9 episodes are amusing, but it's obvious none of the creative team took it that seriously, and the Enterprise episode is completely self-contained and purely designed to be fun (it also happens to be the series' best episode).

And then comes Discovery…For the first episode in the Universe, it seems like they could be doing it right. There's a minor character named Tilly who is a shy and awkward cadet in engineering. In the Mirror Universe, she's a murderous psychopath of a Terran Empire captain, and our version of Tilly has to act like the Mirror Universe version. It's getting her to play against type, and it's some of the most fun the show ever has.

Any hope of that take on the Mirror Universe dies with the very next episode, though. That episode begins with a 15 minute (yes…15 minute) introduction as Michael Burnham flatly explains her mental state as she acts like a Terran captain. She should be playing against type to some degree, but she's still playing the role as flatly as ever, and the tone of the whole enterprise is so dour to suck any sense of fun that could have been had at any point.

To combine the show's mishandling of the Mirror Universe with its complete inability to understand character, we discovery that Jason Isaacs' character [SPOILERS] is actually the Mirror Universe version of the character who found his way into the regular universe. That prospect seems to elicit great possibilities. We've seen this guy for about 10 episodes by this point. He's obviously a hard ass, doesn't quite fit in the regular universe, and the idea that he could completely hide who he is as a man from his crew who've been with him for months is kind of stupid. Except…that's exactly what he did.

The second (literally, the second) we find out that he's a Mirror Universe character, he changes on a dime. Any sense of decency is lost completely. He becomes generic Mirror Universe character who's got the exact same goals as every other Mirror Universe character (rise in the ranks and possibly become Emperor). It kills any interesting possibilities to be had with the character in favor of some poorly filmed gun fight down a hallway. [END SPOILERS]


Arc Fail

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The larger story of the series might be its biggest failure in terms of mere scale. The series begins with the opening of the Klingon War and ends with the ending of the Klingon War. In terms of basic storytelling technique, if you have a beginning and an end, you should know how to get from beginning to end, and the journey should follow logically.

After all this, what do you think that Discovery does?

If you guessed, "It fills the journey with logical holes, and inexplicable nonsense," then collect your prize.

First of all, long form storytelling is not new to Star Trek. DS9 did it, and it did it quite well. Discovery wants to be prestige television like Game of Thrones, but it doesn't have the focus or dedication to storytelling ideas necessary to pull it off.

When telling long-form stories, you don't have to use every episode to push the plot along. You can have individual, or even small multi-episode arcs that don't do anything for the overall story, as long as when you return to the large arc, you pick up where you left off.

At the end of the first half of season, the Discovery has cracked Klingon cloaking technology, allowing them to detect cloaked ships. There's a sense of finality to the action. We've been told and seen that the Klingons and the Federation aren't dominating each other in the war, although the Klingons have a decided advantage stemming from their cloak. Cracking that cloak, we're told and can intuit will lead to at least parity between the two sides of the war if not the Federation being able to win outright. At the very end of that first half's final episode, the ship jumps to a new place that's unrecognizable (turns out to be the Mirror Universe).

We then do our incredibly mishandled Mirror Universe adventure, ending with a return to the regular universe where, surprise!, the war has gone way wrong. The Klingons are on the warpath and are within reach of Earth and wiping out the Federation completely. Also…we've skipped ahead nine months.

Why did Discovery skip ahead nine months so that the crew of our ship hasn't experienced the deterioration of the war only to hear about the atrocities of the Klingons second hand? Bad writing, really. You see, because the people left in the regular universe have seen the atrocities of the war firsthand, they are desperate in a way that the crew of the Discovery are not, so the Federation's decision to use outrageous means to end the war makes sense logically (although there's no real sense of emotion to it). The way this all wraps up is Michael gives a sanctimonious speech about how genocide is not in the Federation's spirit. To be honest, she's right, but the sanctimony from her, someone who hasn't experienced the atrocities of the war, felt shockingly hollow.

"Yes, I know you've had a hard time that I did not share in, but stick to your principles. I know I am."

I heard that (paraphrased) and just wanted to punch her in the face.

The final two episodes of the season reminded me of a specific major flaw with the reboot of Doctor Who especially while being run by Russell T. Davies. Davies was great at building up a major conflict/disaster and then absolutely terrible at finding a satisfying resolution. The Doctor would find himself up against a major apocalyptic event that threatened the world/universe/the entirety of all space and time, and then undo it all with love. You think I'm exaggerating? I'm sorry to say that I'm not. At all.

We pretty much got the same thing from the end of Discovery. The Mirror Universe version of Burnham's mentor (it's not worth explaining) is about to blow up Qo'nos, the Klingon homeworld. Burnham then gives a speech, the mentor gives up the bomb, and Burnham hands the bomb to another Klingon who is expected to use this bomb to unite the 24 Klingon houses under her leadership. Does any of that even come close to making sense? One thing is for sure, though, it sounds like it needs a lot of time to play out, not the 5 minutes or so it actually gets.


To Canon, or not to Canon?

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I've written almost 2400 words about what's wrong with Star Trek Discovery and not once have I mentioned the fact that it's terrible with pre-established canon. Having read everything I've written so far, does it sound like I'm consumed by the presence of holograms pre-TOS? I should hope not.

If the show were well-written and entertaining, I'd be completely dismissive of complaints about the show's lack of adherence to canon. Where we are now, though, I have to bring it up. My problems with the show aren't that canon isn't kept close to, but that the show can't seem to decide whether it's adhering to canon or intentionally breaking from it. The show is filled with dumb little references to things that would put it in line with canon, but then consistently makes choices that break from it.
The show includes Sarek? Sounds canon-like to me. Oh, but the main character is the never mentioned before step-daughter of Sarek? That's an intentional break. The Mirror Universe? That's from canon, not an original idea, except that Enterprise never had the Mirror Universe and the regular one meet intentionally in order to preserve the canon that "Mirror, Mirror" in TOS was the first meeting of the two. So, putting Discovery there is a break from canon.

In a show that's so utterly incompetent, the canon issue is just one more major frustration.


One Genuinely Good Episode

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For all that I've written complaining about the show, I don't want to forget the one good episode the series had: Episode 7, "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad". This is the second and last appearance of Harry Mudd in the season. In it, he has some tech thing that controls time to a limited extent. He's using it to try to figure out the secrets of the ship's special engines, destroying the ship and killing the crew repeatedly.

It's far from an original idea (it's been done a couple of different ways in Star Trek before), but the show loses its self-importance, moralizing, and DARK! qualities in order to provide a fun adventure of an episode. Honestly, I think it could be viewed completely independently of the rest of the show and enjoyed.

I don't think the entire series was worth it to get one good episode, but at least I got that out of it.


To Continue or Not?

Continue making the series? That's not my call, but it's already been renewed, so there's that.

I'll probably continue watching it though for three reasons.

1) We already subscribe to CBS All Access as a household because of Dolley's viewing habits

2) I'm a Star Trek completist. I've seen every hour of the franchise, and I might as well keep going.

And

3) Alan and Tim keep liking it to certain degrees, and it's nice to talk to them about it, even when we rarely agree.

You probably consider me an idiot, and I'm not going to put up a fight about that. I think it's stupid of me to do so, but then I won't be able to write ridiculously long missives about how awful it is anymore. And that would make me sad.

Posted by: OregonMuse at 07:22 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 What happened?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 11, 2018 01:57 PM (yQpMk)

2 I guess this post was withdrawn.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 11, 2018 01:59 PM (yQpMk)

3 destroying the ship and killing the crew repeatedly


Three, three, three ...

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 11, 2018 02:03 PM (yQpMk)

4 I personally like time looping Groundhog Day stories but they have been done a million times so I appreciate when there is some surprising element.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 11, 2018 02:06 PM (yQpMk)

5 jump forward an hour, fall back a day?

WTF is this shit.... PIXY!!


Posted by: redc1c4 at March 11, 2018 07:19 PM (JdMqP)

6 Sorry, if it's not Star Trek TOS, I do not watch it or read about it. I'm a purist like that....

Posted by: KWDreaming at March 11, 2018 07:19 PM (lVzZc)

7 So where is everybody?

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader & Global Rethinker at March 11, 2018 07:19 PM (xlCXC)

8 no gub thread, no peace!

Posted by: redc1c4 at March 11, 2018 07:21 PM (JdMqP)

9 Dude, it's Sunday.

Posted by: Jewells45 at March 11, 2018 07:21 PM (dUJdY)

10 * reads wall o' text, notes Trek content *

NERD!

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at March 11, 2018 07:22 PM (fA1SL)

11 I thought till I read it a bit it was a wrong or old thread

Posted by: Skip at March 11, 2018 07:23 PM (aC6Sd)

12
Wait! What?!?

Posted by: Spun and Murky at March 11, 2018 07:23 PM (4DCSq)

13 ahhhh no. not gonna say it.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at March 11, 2018 07:24 PM (KP5rU)

14 TIME MACHINE MALFUNCTION

BRACE! BRACE! BRACE!

Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at March 11, 2018 07:24 PM (hMwEB)

15 Support left-wing Hollywood.

It's the best way to help Democrats.

Posted by: Ha at March 11, 2018 07:25 PM (MAstk)

16 Holy crap...I didn't realize it was that long...

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at March 11, 2018 07:26 PM (Jj43a)

17 ISTR that this is the series full of SJW virtue signaling BS...

that alone is enough to make sure i'd never watch it, not being a big Star Trek fan to begin with... (i never got to watch TV as a kid, so i never developed the habit of turning it on, and, as an adult most of the shit they broadcast is shit)

but HRH is a big Trekkie, and she won't turn it on either.

seems dumb as hell to alienate a large portion of your potential audience, but WTF do i know?


Posted by: redc1c4 at March 11, 2018 07:26 PM (JdMqP)

18 Oh! I get it!
This poast demonstrates the absurdity of the Mirror Universe premise by showing us a Star Trek thread instead of our regularly-scheduled gub one.
Very meta.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at March 11, 2018 07:26 PM (fA1SL)

19
AoSHQ: come for the scintillating commentary, stay for the time discontinuity.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 11, 2018 07:27 PM (Ojfz1)

20 You borked the computer.

Posted by: fluffy at March 11, 2018 07:27 PM (cHbmY)

21 Did we just go through the Guardian to visit All Out Yesterdays?

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at March 11, 2018 07:27 PM (1xAqM)

22 16. If I had a nickel for every time I had a lady say that to me.....

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at March 11, 2018 07:28 PM (fA1SL)

23 Da fuq? A movie thread about a TV show? (I may be mistaken, I couldn't read the wall of text about a three season sixties sci-fi thing).

Right now I'm pondering what's wrong with track athletics. The men's 1500 meter world championship was just a bunch of sprinters jogging for a few laps and then seeing who had the best kick at the end. It was all positioning and lane blocking like some fucking NASCAR race.

The winning time was 3:58. The world record is 3:26. If you've ever been beaten by five seconds you know what a ridiculously long impossible distance that is. I can't fathom why no 1500 meter runner just went out and ran a fast 1500.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 11, 2018 07:28 PM (fuK7c)

24
The bearded TheJamesMadison strikes.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 11, 2018 07:28 PM (Ojfz1)

25
Musta, shoulda been the gum thread, so...

Gotta sweet deal on an AR-10 at Christmas time. Still haven't had a chance to take it to the range yet!

Posted by: Spun and Murky at March 11, 2018 07:29 PM (4DCSq)

26 If anyone wants to stir shit up they should come up with some Sci-FI where abortion is used to end potential gay or trans babies, because someone came up with a test for unborn babies.

I am really sick of any Hollywood TV and movies where there has to be a check list of people that have to be in the because.... even if it doesn't make any sense.

I started watching more and more Korean movies and TV because they don't have this PC crap. Their must be a Gay or Trans person etc.

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at March 11, 2018 07:29 PM (dKiJG)

27 do they at least have any k3wl gubs or other weapons in the show?

Posted by: redc1c4 at March 11, 2018 07:29 PM (JdMqP)

28
Is the AR-10 a two-third scale model of the AR-15?

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 11, 2018 07:31 PM (Ojfz1)

29 I think ST is too SJW FOR me.

I've really enjoyed The Orville though.

Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at March 11, 2018 07:31 PM (hMwEB)

30 I have seen a episode or a few, certainly not in order, never got into it much. Did like the original Star Trek series with Capt Kirk. But mentioned this before on another web site was doing future movie pictures and actually picked up a lot reading from a web site dedicated to Star Trek, so if you want to look into it
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Discovery

Posted by: Skip at March 11, 2018 07:31 PM (aC6Sd)

31 So, this is what a smart military blog looks like.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at March 11, 2018 07:32 PM (KP5rU)

32 Hubby tried Collateral on Netflix
very sjw as well
be warned

Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at March 11, 2018 07:32 PM (hMwEB)

33 ST: D

Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at March 11, 2018 07:33 PM (hMwEB)

34 watching Wind River
is it gonna disappoint me?

Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at March 11, 2018 07:34 PM (hMwEB)

35
Anything after the Kirk series was bollocks

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 11, 2018 07:34 PM (SiINZ)

36 Talk about destroying the rew and reraising it with a time warp.

Posted by: auscolpyr at March 11, 2018 07:34 PM (pzA2L)

37 It's the Age of Imposters. Black female Mary Sue protagonist? Clobber-you-over-the-head gay couple? Empty moralizing? Make Klingons Great Again?

Of course it got made, and of course it sucks.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, Penitent Cylon at March 11, 2018 07:35 PM (lLeln)

38
Is the AR-10 a two-third scale model of the AR-15?

Y'ould think, but more like four-third scale!

Posted by: Spun and Murky at March 11, 2018 07:35 PM (4DCSq)

39 There is no Star Trek but TOS and DS9.

Posted by: Insomniac - chopped liver at March 11, 2018 07:35 PM (NWiLs)

40 Instead of watching any more of [o]Discovery either use an Agonizer or look at naked pictures of Lena Dunham.

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at March 11, 2018 07:37 PM (1xAqM)

41 38. These are fine rifles, suitable for most if not all purposes, while you wait to get a proper Kalashnikov platform weapon.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at March 11, 2018 07:37 PM (fA1SL)

42 Star Trek is garbage. Entertaining garbage that you don't mind spending time with, but even so.

TOS roused people who enjoyed a little space opera, and then unaccountably began being taken way more seriously than it merited. After the fourth plot which involved digging into the Paramount costume and prop departments (the western one, the Roman one, the Thirties one, the Nazi one) it becomes apparent that the writing was hack work. They threw every trope they could in . Time travel in the series got put in because of a failed attempt at a spin off.

Do you know why the future was depicted as not having a money system of trade? Lazy-ass writing, a reluctance to come to grips with how an economy would work in the future. How do you account for the operation of a fabulously rich and prosperous system? 'Nobody needs to earn money', boom. The physically stronger, smarter, more accomplished Vulcans hung back and let impulsive, illogical Earth dominate the Federation? What logic is at work there? No one of any traditional religious belief exists in the 23rd century? That's just a bit sinister. What happened to them all? You won't find out from any Star Trek series.

It's possible to enjoy the series, but take it seriously? Please.


Posted by: Monty James at March 11, 2018 07:37 PM (gKOMX)

43 My holodeck would be kicking Wesley in the nuts over and over again. Noticed that Wesley does look a bit like Hogg.

Posted by: auscolpyr at March 11, 2018 07:38 PM (pzA2L)

44 If anyone wants to stir shit up they should come up with some Sci-FI where abortion is used to end potential gay or trans babies, because someone came up with a test for unborn babies.


Over on 'The Orville' there was a short story arc and entire episode based on a major culture with mandatory female-to-male gender transition. And handled it so well you'd think it was one of the better Next Generation stories!

Yep. A Seth McFarlane allegedly comic Trek pastiche is better Star Trek than the actual Trek show. Let that sink in, folks...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, Penitent Cylon at March 11, 2018 07:39 PM (lLeln)

45 And oh yeah, since STD takes place before Kirk, for Klingons to have a cloaking device is breaking continuity also.

Balance of Terror.

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at March 11, 2018 07:39 PM (1xAqM)

46 This is the worst gub thread ever

Posted by: PaleRider, simply irredeemable at March 11, 2018 07:40 PM (84F5k)

47 If you get the chance their are some very well made Star Trek fan made tv series, very well made sets look like they are from the original show. They get the lighting direction etc done right and they have actors from former tv shows on it, Like Buck Rogers co star

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at March 11, 2018 07:40 PM (dKiJG)

48 I only watch TOS.

I watched the first episode of STD (yes, I will use that anagram) and will never go back to see the rest.

It is, as TJM said, wrong-- bad to some degree, but beyond that simply written wrong.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 11, 2018 07:41 PM (oVJmc)

49
"Yep. A Seth McFarlane allegedly comic Trek pastiche is better Star Trek than the actual Trek show. Let that sink in, folks..."

The Orville is excellent. Humor gives it a heat the Star Trek does not have.

Posted by: Monty James at March 11, 2018 07:41 PM (gKOMX)

50 46. Sounds like something a euro-pellet pistol fan would say.

* readies crossbow and non-incising garotte. *

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at March 11, 2018 07:41 PM (fA1SL)

51 I gave up after reading that "Michael" is a girl's name.

Posted by: josephistan at March 11, 2018 07:41 PM (ANIFC)

52 46 This is the worst gub thread ever

Posted by: PaleRider, simply irredeemable at March 11, 2018 07:40 PM (84F5k)

we could talk about scifi guns
phasers vs what

Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at March 11, 2018 07:41 PM (hMwEB)

53
It's possible to enjoy the series, but take it seriously? Please.

Posted by: Monty James


So, Communism with better-looking women.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 11, 2018 07:42 PM (Ojfz1)

54 No guns? Sigh

Posted by: Old man gator at March 11, 2018 07:42 PM (Eobvz)

55 The Orville is excellent. Humor gives it a heat the Star Trek does not have.

That's supposed to be "gives it a heart."

Posted by: Monty James at March 11, 2018 07:42 PM (gKOMX)

56
So, phasers vs. photon torpedoes?

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 11, 2018 07:42 PM (Ojfz1)

57 52 46 This is the worst gub thread ever

Posted by: PaleRider, simply irredeemable at March 11, 2018 07:40 PM (84F5k)

we could talk about scifi guns
phasers vs what
Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at March 11, 2018 07:41 PM (hMwEB)

Blasters. The M41A pulse rifle. Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.

Posted by: Insomniac - chopped liver at March 11, 2018 07:43 PM (NWiLs)

58 Once again, folks...IT'S A FUCKING TV SHOW! IT'S NOT A WAY OF LIFE!

Posted by: tu3031 at March 11, 2018 07:43 PM (O5Q3r)

59 07:41 PM (fA1SL) borrows sisters AR-15 and wins because rate of fire and reach distance are better

Posted by: PaleRider, simply irredeemable at March 11, 2018 07:43 PM (84F5k)

60 I tried watching this show. Once. For five minutes.

I could not rouse myself to give a damn about it. I grew up watching TOS and the way this new show just ... ignores it makes it clear this is a conscious SJW diversity-for-the-sale-of-diversity clown show.

Ignoring DS9 is even worse, in that the hype said this featured the first black ST lead. No, Hawk on DS9 had that, and way to ignore it, assholes.

So to sum - crappy show put out just to make money off the name, nothing groundbreaking or innovative, and appeals to the worst of the virtue signallers.

Whew.

Posted by: WitchDoktor, AKA VA GOP Sucks at March 11, 2018 07:44 PM (G8hDY)

61 56. What is this. 'Sissy-boy french Slapfight Club? '
None of their weapons made any sense.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at March 11, 2018 07:44 PM (fA1SL)

62
Thanks for this post. I found it quite interesting. I watched the first episode but haven't seen any others.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 11, 2018 07:44 PM (IqV8l)

63
41 38. These are fine rifles, suitable for most if not all purposes, while you wait to get a proper Kalashnikov platform weapon.

I don't disagree with that, but the -47 slaps the crap outta my face.

Suggestions?

Posted by: Spun and Murky at March 11, 2018 07:44 PM (4DCSq)

64 The Orville is excellent. Humor gives it a heat the Star Trek does not have.

That's supposed to be "gives it a heart."
Posted by: Monty James


Agreed! I was avoiding it because McFarlane, but my brother who is a major Trek fan got me into it on Thanksgiving...imagine my shock when it was good!

Posted by: Brother Cavil, Penitent Cylon at March 11, 2018 07:44 PM (lLeln)

65 If you are going to quote Shatner on SNL about Trek fandom, quote accurately.

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at March 11, 2018 07:44 PM (1xAqM)

66 Ignoring DS9 is even worse, in that the hype said this featured the first black ST lead. No, Hawk on DS9 had that, and way to ignore it, assholes.

Yep, total dick move, especially since he was his usual badass self on DS9 too.

Posted by: Insomniac - chopped liver at March 11, 2018 07:45 PM (NWiLs)

67 The more interesting Star Trek is Deep Space Nine where you had some Planets rebel against the Federation or refuse to join.

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at March 11, 2018 07:45 PM (dKiJG)

68 63
41 38. These are fine rifles, suitable for most if not all purposes, while you wait to get a proper Kalashnikov platform weapon.

I don't disagree with that, but the -47 slaps the crap outta my face.

Suggestions?
Posted by: Spun and Murky at March 11, 2018 07:44 PM (4DCSq)

Put the buttstock against your shoulder instead of your chin.

Posted by: Insomniac - chopped liver at March 11, 2018 07:46 PM (NWiLs)

69 It's possible to enjoy the series, but take it seriously? Please.


Posted by: Monty James at March 11, 2018 07:37 PM (gKOMX)



Nerd from the Shatner SNL routine - Are you saying that we should more attention to the movies?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 11, 2018 07:46 PM (SiINZ)

70 i enjoyed the show. i did not feel that my time was wasted. that's all i ask right now. i really liked the new, more alien Klingons.

Posted by: doug whiddon at March 11, 2018 07:46 PM (9GhFt)

71 63. It is am intentional design feature. All arms of the Slav master race help build toughness.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at March 11, 2018 07:46 PM (fA1SL)

72 Insomniac, go earlier than that.

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, USS Saratoga's Captain was female and black.

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at March 11, 2018 07:47 PM (1xAqM)

73 They do seem to be milking the series out for someone

Posted by: Skip at March 11, 2018 07:47 PM (aC6Sd)

74 Galaxy class starship vs. Imperial class Star Destroyer?

Posted by: josephistan at March 11, 2018 07:47 PM (ANIFC)

75 I see my tongue in cheek comment was a bit goofy since I had skimmed the post very quickly but not read comments.

Posted by: PaleRider, simply irredeemable at March 11, 2018 07:48 PM (84F5k)

76 Well, the hype for Discovery was the first black lead, not captain.

That hype was wrong.

Posted by: WitchDoktor, AKA VA GOP Sucks at March 11, 2018 07:49 PM (G8hDY)

77 I guess this post was withdrawn.

No, no, wait, wait.

Posted by: Barry at March 11, 2018 07:49 PM (TGtxX)

78 72 Insomniac, go earlier than that.

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, USS Saratoga's Captain was female and black.
Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at March 11, 2018 07:47 PM (1xAqM)

True, but she wasn't a lead character.

Posted by: Insomniac - chopped liver at March 11, 2018 07:49 PM (NWiLs)

79 63. Joking aside, it might be your physical build. If you're tall and have long arms, you're gonna need a custom stock.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at March 11, 2018 07:50 PM (fA1SL)

80

Put the buttstock against your shoulder instead of your chin.


Yeah, I knew I set myself up for that one. Ouch!

Posted by: Spun and Murky at March 11, 2018 07:50 PM (4DCSq)

81
Is Discovery the stupid ass show where they said the Klingons will be like Trump supporters? And it's got shitty ratings?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 11, 2018 07:51 PM (SiINZ)

82 The final two episodes of the season reminded me of a specific major flaw with the reboot of Doctor Who especially while being run by Russell T. Davies. Davies was great at building up a major conflict/disaster and then absolutely terrible at finding a satisfying resolution.

Sounds like a lot of the same flaws JJ Abrams has: always goes for the flashy moment, with no concern about the ramifications of these decisions. Lots of glitz, lots of tinsel, lots of emotional manipulation--then a wave of the hand to get out of it, without a care about what this does to the logic of the next story.

Kind of like Discovery, too-- has writing really fallen so far in only a decade or two? Are things being written and produced by people who've never discovered the requirements of literary continuity?

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 11, 2018 07:52 PM (oVJmc)

83 Will there still be a movie thread next Saturday, or is this it?

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 11, 2018 07:52 PM (pvjTE)

84 to put Nana Visitor into a skin tight leather suit

I approve this message.

Does Michelle Yeoh bless us with a similar outfit?

Posted by: DaveA at March 11, 2018 07:52 PM (FhXTo)

85 Shoulda posted this in the food thread. Apparently, a hoodie that looks like raw meat is for sale on the InnerWebz:

https://tinyurl.com/meat-hoodie

Posted by: Sharkman at March 11, 2018 07:52 PM (BfOXk)

86 Leave it to a Trekkie to bring a phaser to a gun fight.

Posted by: Sean Connery at March 11, 2018 07:53 PM (EzdLW)

87 I see Pixy survived the space/time jump.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 11, 2018 07:55 PM (FJXGr)

88 87. This os mirror universe pixy. Turns gub threads into Trek threads.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at March 11, 2018 07:56 PM (fA1SL)

89 The final two episodes of the season reminded me of a specific major flaw with the reboot of Doctor Who especially while being run by Russell T. Davies.



The major flaw IS the reboot. It dropped off badly after Tom Baker left and John Nathan Turner did everything to kill the show including putting that lisping shithead Sylvester McCoy in the role

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 11, 2018 07:56 PM (SiINZ)

90 For me, Star Trek has, like Star Wars, become something I am no longer interested in beyond the early material. They don't know how to make either well anymore. So why not make something altogether new?

Posted by: Bear with Assymetrical Balls at March 11, 2018 07:56 PM (H5knJ)

91
79 63. Joking aside, it might be your physical build. If you're tall and have long arms, you're gonna need a custom stock.


I watched a couple of YouTube videos. They are way closer to the rear site than I normally set. And yeah, tall and long arms!

Love the way the x39 hits...

Posted by: Spun and Murky at March 11, 2018 07:56 PM (4DCSq)

92 90. Because they can't do that, either. We are truly in post-literate times.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at March 11, 2018 07:57 PM (fA1SL)

93 we could talk about scifi guns

I can't talk about sci-fi guns but I can tell a story about them.

I used to take my boys to Wizard World, which is somewhere in the ComicCon universe. These days those things are promotion vehicles for the next Marvel blockbuster but then they were geekfests for people who were into comics.

There was (is) an Artists Alley where comic artists would sit at booths and sign and sell things and talk to you about their stuff. No. 1 Son wasn't actually good at drawing, but he loved it and there was something about his style that was truly unique and reflected the way his brain worked. He brought a portfolio of his stuff with him.

He showed it to Stuart Sayger, who had just become the artist for the Bionicles series. Sayger looked through it and started identifying all the Star Wars weapons.

And then the two of them were off on the "oh, that's MigSplatter 5" or whatever Star Wars weapons are. It was awesome.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 11, 2018 07:58 PM (fuK7c)

94 Shoulda posted this in the food thread. Apparently, a hoodie that looks like raw meat is for sale on the InnerWebz:

https://tinyurl.com/meat-hoodie
Posted by: Sharkman at March 11, 2018 07:52 PM

So...Lady Gaga has a fashion line now?

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 11, 2018 07:58 PM (oA7a8)

95 Unfortunately I expected this to happen
First off. Star Trek was always a preachy show. But because of quality actors and more subtly it was not a problem that destroyed he overall arc of the show. Characters were treated fairly.
But there are several problems I have seen creeping in since the Abrams remakes started.

1) Enormous plot holes. Its a sci-fi show and I get the idea that there will always be some. But Red matter? Or Bones yelling how they need Khan's blood to save Spock while there are literally 100 frozen Khan's IN THE FRAME?

Nobody seems to even care about keeping the story tight.
2) As the special effects have improves. It seems they have given even less effort to character development and consistency. While every incarnation looks better and better. The quality otherwise has become equally worse.

3) Fan service- It has reached a level that makes the products unwatchable. They are not just sticking to canon. They are simply reusing the same plot over and over again. It worked until DS9 (and yes Enterprise). But every attempt since has felt completely forced and unneeded

4) And lastly- Folks this isnt the same Hollywood anymore. Getting their "message" out is far more important than making entertainment. So they are simply heavy handed evangelicals. instead of entertaining story tellers.

IMHO- The best episode of any of the Star Trek series was "In the Pale Moonlight" in the DS9 run. Precisely because it was both cleverly written. And showed that life in Star Trek could never be as black and white as portrayed.

For my money Stargate SG-1 was a better series overall. Much more realistic about humans and our failures. While still sticking to a tighter formula.

Posted by: Mythx at March 11, 2018 07:58 PM (BnHi6)

96 Actually in STD, the Klingons serve up Michelle Yeoh on a platter. She's their lunch.

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at March 11, 2018 07:58 PM (1xAqM)

97 91. There ya go. Superior Kalashnikov system is not designed for tall and lanky types. Meant for use by wild-eyed squattish Slav supermen.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at March 11, 2018 07:58 PM (fA1SL)

98 I am posting this at 8:06 PM EDT according to my system.

Posted by: Sean Connery at March 11, 2018 07:59 PM (EzdLW)

99 I liked the baby Ron Howard's brother in the original series.

He had that dummy Alien to scare the Enterprise until he figured out they were peaceful enough to invite into his bedroom for drinks and laughter.

President Trump's favorite episode.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at March 11, 2018 07:59 PM (EoRCO)

100 I tried to roll the clock back a day, and it tried to kick my ass.

Posted by: Fritz at March 11, 2018 08:00 PM (bJ0w+)

101 17 ISTR that this is the series full of SJW virtue signaling BS...

that alone is enough to make sure i'd never watch it, not being a big Star Trek fan to begin with... (i never got to watch TV as a kid, so i never developed the habit of turning it on, and, as an adult most of the shit they broadcast is shit)

but HRH is a big Trekkie, and she won't turn it on either.

seems dumb as hell to alienate a large portion of your potential audience, but WTF do i know?


Posted by: redc1c4 at March 11, 2018 07:26 PM (JdMqP)

++++

Star Trek has always been SJW, from the beginning. But, it keeps getting even more so.

Once I saw the thumbnail sketch of the characters, including a gay man, a PTSD guy, and a guy from a species of cowards, I saw no reason to watch. I mean really, a coward? Why would I want to watch Hollywood try to make us understand the nobility of cowards? That plus the dick sucking.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 11, 2018 08:00 PM (pvjTE)

102 I saw the last 10 minutes of the first episode when it aired on CBS. Was not impressed. Nice sets and cinematography, that was about it. Watched a number of reviews on the Youtube that did not care for the opening 2 part story. Even if they had liked it, I was not interested in paying for CBS all access.

My plan was to either buy the first season when it came out on disc, or rent the discs from Netflix should the reviews pan the show.

JamesMadison, you should check out Star Trek Continues on the Youtube. Pretty good knock off of the original series. They have 11 episodes that run between 45 and 55 minutes in length each. Easily the best "fanfic" Trek series out there.

Posted by: Darth Randall at March 11, 2018 08:01 PM (v3DL/)

103 off connery sock

Posted by: Hands at March 11, 2018 08:01 PM (EzdLW)

104 I don't like The Orville, because Seth McFarlane is a colossal tool, but primarily because it so slavishly copies the NextGen style which sucked on its own.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 11, 2018 08:01 PM (oVJmc)

105 There ya go. Superior Kalashnikov system is not designed for tall and lanky types. Meant for use by wild-eyed squattish Slav supermen.
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at March 11, 2018 07:58 PM

Obligatory:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=syMhJMmGEIc

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 11, 2018 08:02 PM (oA7a8)

106
The major flaw IS the reboot. It dropped off badly after Tom Baker left and John Nathan Turner did everything to kill the show including putting that lisping shithead Sylvester McCoy in the role


If John Nathan-Turner had left along with Peter Davison like he should have, there wouldn't have been a cancellation in the first place.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 11, 2018 08:02 PM (oVJmc)

107 And lastly- Folks this isnt the same Hollywood anymore. Getting their "message" out is far more important than making entertainment. So they are simply heavy handed evangelicals. instead of entertaining story tellers.




What was the old line - If you want to send a message, call Western Union.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 11, 2018 08:02 PM (SiINZ)

108
Trek thread: canon
gub thread: cannon

Posted by: Hands at March 11, 2018 08:03 PM (EzdLW)

109 85 Shoulda posted this in the food thread. Apparently, a hoodie that looks like raw meat is for sale on the InnerWebz:

https://tinyurl.com/meat-hoodie
Posted by: Sharkman at March 11, 2018 07:52 PM (BfOXk)

Do they have it in a men's XXXXXL? Asking for a friend.

*Licks Lips*

Posted by: Massive Michael Moore Munching on Muffins at March 11, 2018 08:04 PM (IUM2p)

110 Klingons serve up Michelle Yeoh

Saved me wading thru some ST(SJW sermonizing)
Thanks,

Posted by: DaveA at March 11, 2018 08:04 PM (FhXTo)

111 They need to make a real life The Jetsons sitcom.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 11, 2018 08:05 PM (2DOZq)

112 I like the new ST movies
I'm shallow and just like Karl Urban

Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at March 11, 2018 08:05 PM (hMwEB)

113 108
gub thread: cannon
Posted by: Hands at March 11, 2018 08:03 PM (EzdLW)

We need common sense cannon control!!!

Posted by: Cannon Banners at March 11, 2018 08:05 PM (IUM2p)

114 105. Yes. Very much like this.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at March 11, 2018 08:06 PM (fA1SL)

115 ST did its damnedest to make me dislike it even before it aired, and I am a compete TrekHead. They talked about !Diversity! before they even discussed plots or characters.

Trek may be, as Nicholas Meyer put it, the plaid pants Republican show of the science fiction universe, but it goes to dark places, and it does that successfully because it has a grounding in decency, honor, and commitment. You always know the Trek folks will do their utmost to rescue a comrade or save a planet and its people.

This Michael character sounds like an asshole, and I hate that her backstory negates all that Spock had to go through as a half-Vulcan to prove himself in the eyes of Sarek.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Gamestress of Triskelion at March 11, 2018 08:06 PM (qJtVm)

116 Funniest original Star Trek episode ever was the Hippie episode.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 11, 2018 08:07 PM (2DOZq)

117

Trek thread: canon
gub thread: cannon


Fat detective: Cannon

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 11, 2018 08:08 PM (IqV8l)

118 If John Nathan-Turner had left along with Peter Davison like he should have, there wouldn't have been a cancellation in the first place.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 11, 2018 08:02 PM (oVJmc)



True nerd story at a Dr. Who convention in the early eighties well before my 29 years, they had screening a Davison show before it was shown in the States. As it ended a buddy of mine said something like, "Wow, that really sucked. What a POS." As the lights came up we looked behind us and there was Nathan Turner glaring at him. Without missing a beat my buddy said, Hey can I get your autograph?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 11, 2018 08:08 PM (SiINZ)

119 The James Madison, about the continuity.

I remember seeing in review of STD on YouTube, the license for this series actually falls under JJ Abrams movie license. So there is a definite break between TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager and this mess pretending to be a show.

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at March 11, 2018 08:09 PM (1xAqM)

120 117

Trek thread: canon
gub thread: cannon

Fat detective: Cannon
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 11, 2018 08:08 PM (IqV8l)

Grandma food thread : canning

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 11, 2018 08:09 PM (2DOZq)

121 Holy crap. I saw Star Wars Episode VIII last night. It was terrible.

Too lame to be entertaining.

Posted by: Fritz at March 11, 2018 08:09 PM (bJ0w+)

122 I'm shallow and just like Karl Urban
Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at March 11, 2018

* * *

Urban is a very good Bones. Shame the material is not better. Urban is good in general though. I always enjoy his performances.

Posted by: Bear with Assymetrical Balls at March 11, 2018 08:10 PM (H5knJ)

123 I don't really like Star Trek much any more. The original series is entertaining and sometimes quite good sci fi despite the low budget. After that it went downhill pretty rapidly and I think has pretty well worn out its welcome even with hardcore fans. When you talk to them you can see that desperate gleam in their eyes, wanting to continue liking it even though its just not worth it any more.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 11, 2018 08:11 PM (39g3+)

124 Killing Captain Pike instead of just making him a vegetable for continuity made me mad and I'm not even a big Trek fan.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 11, 2018 08:12 PM (2DOZq)

125 I said this in the book thread because books, movies same thing.

Frankenstein Chronicles. Good but it could have had more episodes i think. Unanswered questions.

Now Penny Dreadful. they threw in everything but the kitchen sink. Egyptian like undead, vampires, cowboy gunslinger, cane sword master, psychic, autopsies, stabbings, shooting gratuitous sex.








Posted by: Cannibal Bob at March 11, 2018 08:12 PM (70cRb)

126
I was listening to 'Gun Talk Radio' this afternoon from a gun show in Germany.

There are air guns now in .357 that can take deer and bear. WTF?!?

Posted by: Spun and Murky at March 11, 2018 08:13 PM (4DCSq)

127 121 Holy crap. I saw Star Wars Episode VIII last night. It was terrible.

Too lame to be entertaining.
Posted by: Fritz at March 11, 2018 08:09 PM (bJ0w+)

You just hate my film because you hate empowering wymyn!!! Filthy Misogynist!!!

Posted by: Kathleen Kennedy at March 11, 2018 08:13 PM (IUM2p)

128 Honestly, you are a better fan than I am. I remember watching the first Star Trek. Having already read virtually every sci book in my school library by that time, I was extremely excited. My Dad, who watched it with me was not overly impressed. I watched all the franchise even watching several seasons of Voyager although I admit it sucked. As they said, it lasted so many seasons because both the Federation and the Fans knew the ship was lost but didn’t care anymore. So having established my bins fifes let me just say that I watched three quarters of Discovery, changed the channel and decided that the writing was so screwed up that perhaps it would be watchable by the third season. You’ve seen it before: the writers are directed in a certain direction, the suits decide they are better writers, the writers push back, quit, take too many drugs and then the suits are effectively writing the show through the remaining team with the producers, actors and directors throwing up their hands and cashing their paychecks.
It’s dead Jim.

Posted by: New Phone at March 11, 2018 08:14 PM (fLFVi)

129

Star Wars is on. It's the "everything is an illusion" episode.

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at March 11, 2018 08:14 PM (okDvZ)

130 Why would I want to watch Hollywood try to make us understand the nobility of cowards?


This was hurtful.

Posted by: The Hindmost at March 11, 2018 08:14 PM (yQpMk)

131 105 There ya go. Superior Kalashnikov system is not designed for tall and lanky types. Meant for use by wild-eyed squattish Slav supermen.
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at March 11, 2018 07:58 PM

Obligatory:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=syMhJMmGEIc
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 11, 2018 08:02 PM (oA7a

Never before have I wanted to be a butter churn so badly.

Posted by: Insomniac - chopped liver at March 11, 2018 08:14 PM (NWiLs)

132
122
I'm shallow and just like Karl Urban

Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at March 11, 2018



* * *



Urban is a very good Bones. Shame the material is not better. Urban is good in general though. I always enjoy his performances.

Posted by: Bear with Assymetrical Balls at March 11, 2018 08:10 PM (H5knJ)

And sadly Anton Yelchin was a very good Checkov. Sticking closely to the original intent of the character. It will be interesting if they try to recast or say he died off screen. And create a whole new helmsman

Posted by: Mythx at March 11, 2018 08:14 PM (BnHi6)

133 At the end of the first half of season, the Discovery has cracked Klingon cloaking technology...

AAAAGGGGHHH!!!!

Geek Out In Progress:

Cloaking is ROMULAN technology.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at March 11, 2018 08:14 PM (fVubI)

134 The new Lara Croft movie looks decent.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 11, 2018 08:14 PM (2DOZq)

135 [iStar Wars is on. It's the "everything is an illusion" episode.


The one with Christopher Pike or the one at the OK Corral?

Posted by: The Hindmost at March 11, 2018 08:15 PM (yQpMk)

136 116 Funniest original Star Trek episode ever was the Hippie episode.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 11, 2018 08:07 PM (2DOZq)

Herbert!

Posted by: Insomniac - chopped liver at March 11, 2018 08:15 PM (NWiLs)

137
I don't really like Star Trek much any more.

Star Wars: Deep Space 9 is very good.

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at March 11, 2018 08:15 PM (okDvZ)

138 I enjoy Karl Urban in everything I've seen him in. He was the best part of Red, overshadowing all those great actors. Although I think he was criminally misused in Thor Ragnarok, like they weren't sure what to do with such an epic and tragic character in a zany buddy comedy.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 11, 2018 08:15 PM (39g3+)

139 Well now this is weird. Has the Outer Limits announcer said - "do not attempt to adjust . . "????

Posted by: BebeDahl at March 11, 2018 08:16 PM (yNyJy)

140 There are air guns now in .357 that can take deer and bear. WTF?!?
Posted by: Spun and Murky at March 11, 2018 08:13

Historically, there were a lot of large caliber hunting airguns in Europe for large game. Sniping, too.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 11, 2018 08:16 PM (oA7a8)

141 Frankenstein Chronicles. Good but it could have had more episodes i think. Unanswered questions.

Casting gave away how the first season would end.

Now Penny Dreadful. they threw in everything but the kitchen sink. Egyptian like undead, vampires, cowboy gunslinger, cane sword master, psychic, autopsies, stabbings, shooting gratuitous sex.

It was an attempt to make "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" without the burden of the movie. I thought it was entertaining.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at March 11, 2018 08:16 PM (fVubI)

142 122 I'm shallow and just like Karl Urban
Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at March 11, 2018

* * *

Urban is a very good Bones. Shame the material is not better. Urban is good in general though. I always enjoy his performances.
Posted by: Bear with Assymetrical Balls at March 11, 2018 08:10 PM (H5knJ)

Totally badass as Judge Dredd.

Posted by: Insomniac - chopped liver at March 11, 2018 08:16 PM (NWiLs)

143 Instead of Urban making another Star Trek he needs to make another Dredd.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 11, 2018 08:16 PM (2DOZq)

144 Yelchin was better at Chekov than Walter Koenig was. He made the character more likeable and vulnerable, and Koenig has a certain menace or disquiet about him at all times. He was so good as Bester.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 11, 2018 08:17 PM (39g3+)

145
The one with Christopher Pike or the one at the OK Corral?

Posted by: The Hindmost



Ahh, good point!

Neither, actually. It's the episode with the Sorceress. Played by Antoinette Bower.

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at March 11, 2018 08:17 PM (okDvZ)

146 There are air guns now in .357 that can take deer and bear. WTF?!?


How about suppressed 50 cal?

https://www.airgundepot.com/airforce-texan-ss.html

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 11, 2018 08:17 PM (yQpMk)

147 And sadly Anton Yelchin was a very good Checkov. Sticking closely to the original intent of the character. It will be interesting if they try to recast or say he died off screen. And create a whole new helmsman

Posted by: Mythx at March 11, 2018 08:14 PM (BnHi6)
---
He is (was) in the new movie "Thoroughbreds". It was his final film before his death.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Gamestress of Triskelion at March 11, 2018 08:17 PM (qJtVm)

148 I also liked the Star Trek original where the former governor mass murderer was going around with his kid putting on plays and pretending he was not the mass murdering governor.

Jerry Moonbeam's favorite episode.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at March 11, 2018 08:17 PM (EoRCO)

149 Now Penny Dreadful. they threw in everything but the kitchen sink. Egyptian like undead, vampires, cowboy gunslinger, cane sword master, psychic, autopsies, stabbings, shooting gratuitous sex.

It was an attempt to make "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" without the burden of the movie. I thought it was entertaining.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at March 11, 2018 08:16 PM (fVubI)

Penny Dreadful ramming teh ghey down the viewer's throat every five seconds was really grating.

Posted by: Insomniac - chopped liver at March 11, 2018 08:17 PM (NWiLs)

150 Never before have I wanted to be a butter churn so badly.
Posted by: Insomniac - chopped liver at March 11, 2018 08:14 PM

The Empress likes to post that one from time to time. *sigh*

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 11, 2018 08:18 PM (oA7a8)

151 I totally rejected the new reboot of Star Trek when the command structures of the first one wason screen.

And killing the planet Vulcan. Why? The planet was not a plot point. And the Grand Canyon in Iowa. Hunh.

I saw it at the Udvar-Hazy IMAX theater. They should have focused on better writing, plotting, character development rather than IMAX.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at March 11, 2018 08:18 PM (hyuyC)

152
votermom, that series Stinky Pete just released their 2nd season.

I think I recall you having an interest in the series. Sneaky Pete.

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at March 11, 2018 08:18 PM (okDvZ)

153 125 Penny dreadful was ok until the last season.Yeeks.

I hope Frankenstein Chronicles gets a 3rd season.

Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at March 11, 2018 08:18 PM (hMwEB)

154 144 Yelchin was better at Chekov than Walter Koenig was. He made the character more likeable and vulnerable, and Koenig has a certain menace or disquiet about him at all times. He was so good as Bester.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 11, 2018 08:17 PM (39g3+)

Odd Thomas is a good Yelchin flick.

Posted by: Insomniac - chopped liver at March 11, 2018 08:18 PM (NWiLs)

155 136 116 Funniest original Star Trek episode ever was the Hippie episode.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 11, 2018 08:07 PM (2DOZq)

Herbert!
Posted by: Insomniac - chopped liver at March 11, 2018 08:15 PM (NWiLs)

We reach.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Gamestress of Triskelion at March 11, 2018 08:18 PM (qJtVm)

156 Nood GUNS !

Posted by: JT at March 11, 2018 08:19 PM (UsVrc)

157 Star Wars: Deep Space 9 is very good.

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at March 11, 2018 08:15 PM (okDvZ)




Deep Throat 9 was a really different take on the series

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 11, 2018 08:19 PM (SiINZ)

158 148 I also liked the Star Trek original where the former governor mass murderer was going around with his kid putting on plays and pretending he was not the mass murdering governor.

Jerry Moonbeam's favorite episode.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at March 11, 2018 08:17 PM (EoRCO)

It was my inspiration.

Posted by: Gov. Moonbeam (D-CA) at March 11, 2018 08:19 PM (IUM2p)

159
Star Wars is on. It's the "everything is an illusion" episode.


The one with Christopher Pike or the one at the OK Corral?
Posted by: The Hindmost at March 11, 2018 08:15 PM



I'm assuming it's the one on that planet where thoughts become reality. Finnegan fist fighting Kirk, a tiger chasing someone, the white rabbit from Wonderland, and that ends with McCoy arm in arm with a couple of playboy bunnies

Posted by: Hands at March 11, 2018 08:19 PM (EzdLW)

160 Urban is a believeable younger version of McCoy.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 11, 2018 08:20 PM (yQpMk)

161 152 Sooth, yeah! Haven't had a chance to see it yet.

Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at March 11, 2018 08:20 PM (hMwEB)

162

Historically, there were a lot of large caliber hunting airguns in Europe for large game. Sniping, too.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 11, 2018 08:16 PM



And, apparently charged with scuba tanks.

Posted by: Spun and Murky at March 11, 2018 08:20 PM (4DCSq)

163 Obligatory:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=syMhJMmGEIc
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 11, 2018 08:02 PM (oA7a



Blimey

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 11, 2018 08:22 PM (SiINZ)

164 *snickers*

How quaint this is more than 50 years later. Little memos that Roddenberry received from NBC's Broadcast Standards Department on scripts.

"Dagger of the Mind"
Page 45: Please delete the underlined in Janice's speech: "I'm a damned attractive female."

"Miri"
Page 62: Caution here where Janice opens her uniform to check on the progress of the disease; avoid exposure which could embarrass or offend.

pg 297-298. The Making of Star Trek: What it is - How it Happened - How it Works!. Stephen R. Whitfield and Gene Roddenberry. Ballentine Books. New York. September 1968.

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at March 11, 2018 08:22 PM (1xAqM)

165 And sadly Anton Yelchin was a very good Checkov. Sticking closely to the original intent of the character. It will be interesting if they try to recast or say he died off screen. And create a whole new helmsman

Posted by: Mythx at March 11, 2018 08:14 PM (BnHi6)

They could do like they did in TAS & replace him with a three-limb alien.

Posted by: josephistan at March 11, 2018 08:23 PM (ANIFC)

166 Finnegan and the Zero fighter plus the giant white bunny - "Shore Leave."

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at March 11, 2018 08:23 PM (1xAqM)

167
One of my favorite scenes in the original Star Wars is when "Charlie" the precocious evil teen with extraordinary powers gooses Yeoman Rand.

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at March 11, 2018 08:24 PM (okDvZ)

168 130 Why would I want to watch Hollywood try to make us understand the nobility of cowards?


This was hurtful.

Posted by: The Hindmost at March 11, 2018 08:14 PM (yQpMk)

++++

The Puppeteers! Fair point. They were seemingly cowards, but that was just their front. In truth, they were shameless manipulators, going so far as to interfere with the genetic makeup of humans and kzins.

I don't know what STD has done has done with their coward. Anything interesting?

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 11, 2018 08:24 PM (pvjTE)

169 STD greatest flaw is it isn't Star Trek. Star Trek is generally optimistic, more ideas than action, and at least tween and up friendly.

After facing that, it's not even a good sci-fi show.

Posted by: WOPR (With Full Auto Nuclear Ability) at March 11, 2018 08:26 PM (J70i0)

170 34 watching Wind River
is it gonna disappoint me?
Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at March 11, 2018 07:34 PM (hMwEB),

I liked elements of it, but there was one part that really frosted my ass and I'd like to see if you felt the same, vmom.

Posted by: Gem at March 11, 2018 08:27 PM (XoAz8)

171 Talos IV, Pike, Number One, Spock, and Yeoman Colt. The Talosians could create fantasies and inject them straight into your mind. "The Cage"

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at March 11, 2018 08:27 PM (1xAqM)

172 If the Star Trek production doesn't have the exact same music played during the fight scenes when Shatner always gets his shirt ripped, I'm not entertained.

Posted by: BebeDahl at March 11, 2018 08:28 PM (yNyJy)

173 And no way am I investing a minute of my time on ST:SJW.

Posted by: Gem at March 11, 2018 08:29 PM (XoAz8)

174 Because of the animated episode "Slaver's Weapon," the Patriarchy of the Kzinti is in the Star Trek universe.

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at March 11, 2018 08:29 PM (1xAqM)

175 If the Star Trek production doesn't have the exact same music played during the fight scenes when Shatner always gets his shirt ripped, I'm not entertained.

Posted by: BebeDahl at March 11, 2018 08:28 PM (yNyJy)



Which was nicely lampooned in Galaxy Quest and Alan Rickman says to Tim Allen - "I see you've managed to get your shirt off."

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 11, 2018 08:34 PM (SiINZ)

176 Someone said Karl Urban.

Take your bow, threadwinner.

Posted by: Gem at March 11, 2018 08:34 PM (XoAz8)

177 Penny Dreadful ramming teh ghey down the viewer's throat every five seconds was really grating.

Posted by: Insomniac - chopped liver at March 11, 2018 08:17 PM (NWiLs)

Really!? I've see 2 episodes. Damn...I hate that too. And well its hard to find a series where it isn't. F*CK.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at March 11, 2018 08:36 PM (70cRb)

178 Has Oregon Muse done a review of Galaxy Quest?

Posted by: girldog at March 11, 2018 08:41 PM (g5YYQ)

179

1) We already subscribe to CBS All Access as a household because of Dolley's viewing habits.: OHH YOU HAVE A ROKU OR STREAMING DEVICE good for you.


2) I'm a Star Trek completist. I've seen every hour of the franchise, and I might as well keep going: NO NOT IF YOU HAVE INTEGRITY.

So if I make a Star Trek out of finger or sock puppets the thread author would watch it, is what I see here. If you add a name to something it doesn't mean you automatically gain the respect from the name. Respect is earned! Not just given because FRANCHISE..

Posted by: El Carbon Azzprint at March 11, 2018 08:45 PM (foYMy)

180 STD is trash.

I stopped at episode six. I keep thinking I should finish the rest and cancel CBS All Access but that would mean I'd have to watch the rest of this garbage. It feels like a bunch of hacks were given a series bible and told to go nuts. I don't think they ever real,y watched or much cared for Star Trek. It's bunch of lame ideas painfully stitched together.

Right on about continuity. I consider this series to be its own continuity. For example, that the Vulcans seem to be warmongers. When Sarek comes out and states they made peace with the Klingons by attacking all their ships whenever they saw them. What? Vulcans are fucking pacifists! I also understand that Sarek was in favor of blowing up the Klingon home world. Like I said,I don't believe that the writers watched or gave a crap about Star Trek.

Mr. Madison, if I may make ask, what about Voyager season five do you feel makes it one of the best seasons of Trek? I haven't seen most of Voyager sine after the second season I gave up on it.

Posted by: Robert at March 11, 2018 08:48 PM (ayUOl)

181 Well now this is weird. Has the Outer Limits announcer said - "do not attempt to adjust . . "????

Outer Limits is a good example of a sequel series sucking hard.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 11, 2018 08:51 PM (oVJmc)

182 This has strengthened my Resolve to do a Baseball Thread every Sunday.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1), (T) at March 11, 2018 08:52 PM (Ckg4U)

183 Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 11, 2018 08:34 PM (SiINZ)
-------
Oh yeah, good recall, I haven't seen GQ in years, but just about anything with either Allen or Richman in it I will try to watch again, thanks for the reminder. Funny flick.

Posted by: BebeDahl at March 11, 2018 08:56 PM (yNyJy)

184 The Baseball Thread should go through History, Management, Players and current happenings.

I'll not promise one every Sunday, as I get back to work soon, but I can ask the Cobs and Ace for space on a New Thread.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1), (T) at March 11, 2018 08:56 PM (Ckg4U)

185 ...and now I'm off to be disappointed in The Walking Dead.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1), (T) at March 11, 2018 08:57 PM (Ckg4U)

186 Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 11, 2018 08:51 PM (oVJmc)
------
OL had a great introduction, followed by mostly lame content. Nothing could beat Sterling's TZ.

Posted by: BebeDahl at March 11, 2018 09:01 PM (yNyJy)

187 Speaking of flogging a dead Taun-Taun, Jon Favreau is going to bring to TV a Star Wars live action series.

May the Farce be with us

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at March 11, 2018 09:03 PM (1xAqM)

188 I enjoyed Trek over the years. I mostly recall how the good the nineties were for sci-fi television. Plus X-Files, Northern Exposure and a few other show made it a great decade for TV viewing. Oh, and The CW had some okay TV fodder. Smallville was innocent and cute. And the first couple seasons of Unnatural? (two guys driving an old black GTO fiighting evil)

Garak was my favorite Trek second tier character, so I tend to remember DS9 for that reason alone. I also liked Voyager and am somewhat surprised at how much it's disliked by TrekNerds.

Posted by: 13times at March 11, 2018 09:12 PM (K3B2k)

189 Heck, I had over two-hundred and fifty posts for the last Baseball Thread.

I had to read it later because I had That Bad Flu that went around.

I wrote it before the throes of Flu had fully set upon me. I put the Astros in the A.L. Central... lol.

Baseball is purely American. It strengthens my Resolve in the Red, White and Blue just knowing that the Promise of Summer is out there.

I am grounded in your prayers, but I am lifted by the Promise of Summer.

It is my escape and they have not taken a knee.

God Bless you all.

God Bless baseball.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1), (T) at March 11, 2018 09:13 PM (Ckg4U)

190 Speaking of flogging a dead Taun-Taun, Jon Favreau is going to bring to TV a Star Wars live action series.

May the Farce be with us

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at March 11, 2018 09:03 PM (1xAqM)

---

Favreau did "Iron Man" and "Iron Man 2", both of which I enjoyed. My question is this: Is Lucasfilm going to closely oversee this (i.e. Kathleen Kennedy) or will Favreau have room to do as he likes? (similar to Marvel tv and Netflix stuff not being run by the Movie production side).

Posted by: Darth Randall at March 11, 2018 09:14 PM (v3DL/)

191 Didn't some dude from the A's take a knee last year ?

Posted by: son-of-ceviche at March 11, 2018 09:17 PM (aowex)

192 191 Didn't some dude from the A's take a knee last year ?
Posted by: son-of-ceviche at March 11, 2018 09:17 PM (aowex)
=====

Bruce Maxwell.

He also pulled a gun on someone in the offseason.

He's a douche. Also was never very good, even for the A's. He's promised to not kneel this year. It's a mystery why.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison's Phone at March 11, 2018 09:25 PM (Jj43a)

193 Here's a movie review from last night:


Saw an extremely black comedy this week-

"Mom and Dad" with Nicholas Cage.

You will be laughing and laughing hard by the end of the movie.

The movie is about an electronic(?) virus(?) that reverses a parent's instinct to protect their children to instead do everything they can to kill them.

While there are some extremely tense scenes, the movie isn't particularly gory.

Even the delightful and squeamish Mrs naturalfake was laughing pretty hard through the great last action sequence and liked the movie a lot.

The director is actually pretty lousy as a director putting an entire movie together but he can direct comedy horror scenes very well, which most directors can't.

Huge kudos to Nick Cage and Selma Blair and whoever played their teenage daughter. Their acting was perfect for their roles.


The ending has confused Our Betters, but think of it as an jokey extension of the electronic virus controlling your thoughts idea. You will think exactly what Nick Cage said next.

That's the point.

Definite recommendation for a low budget but high aspiration horror comedy.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 11, 2018 09:43 PM (9q7Dl)

194 I'm pretty sure the whole main Discovery cast took a knee at a red carpet event.

There were tweets and interviews by cast prior to the first episode that made me realize I couldn't watch it. Having contempt for their audience (me) and saying they are going to use Star Trek to preach SJW values, was a bridge too far.

Also, if they are successful with it, it will corrupt the Star Trek franchise forever. I will not be party to that.

The only way it'll return to its roots is if this SJW version fails.

Posted by: professor disarray, gumdrop gorilla channel at March 11, 2018 09:44 PM (iS/NP)

195 The fact that they had to pull the character of Harry Mudd from TOS was bad enough, but the whole politically correct backdrop just soured the show even further. They were unimaginative and uninspired in their storylines.
Now they are going to piggyback some more on TOS with the introduction of Capt Pike and the Enterprise. I know that I can count on Pike being a villain, since he is a heterosexual white male--that sin can't be left unpunished.

Posted by: Bart Fouchard at March 11, 2018 09:44 PM (Jouvt)

196 I WAS a star trek completist, right up until the end of Enterprise. Now, I'm done with it. I'll never watch a single minute of "Discovery".

One passing note on what made a bit of the silliness in the ST:TOS Mirror Universe acceptable is that to my knowledge, it was the FIRST time anyone ever used the idea in any mainstream television or movie production, although sci-fi writers had been playing with the idea for some time.

So, being First wins you a lot of leeway. Also, they firmly established the universal identifier - when faced with two copies of the same man, the one with the goatee is ALWAYS the Mirror Universe/Evil version.

Posted by: Tom Servo at March 11, 2018 09:49 PM (V2Yro)

197 I have decided that Discovery is not, in fact, Star Trek- which enables me to enjoy it somewhat. However "The Orville," is apparently Star Trek the Next Generation for grownups, with the serial numbers filed off. I find it much more enjoyable than Discovery.

Posted by: Nmissi at March 11, 2018 09:55 PM (zciy2)

198 I watched the first episode, and swore off the rest. I won't even download them from the bay that is pirate.

As far as I am concerned, the entire series does not even exist.

Posted by: Unknownsailor at March 11, 2018 10:00 PM (IX2GI)

199 Alan and Tim keep liking it to certain degrees

Alan Rickman and Tim Conway? Cool!

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at March 11, 2018 11:10 PM (l9m7l)

200 I tried watching this show. But they spit on everything Star Trek that came before it. The characters are weak and one dimensional. And it's a SJW fest.

Posted by: MrX at March 11, 2018 11:56 PM (QpMYC)

201 OregonMuse has some good points, but the show isn't near as bad as he thinks it is.
In fact, if you look at the first seasons of all the Trek spinoffs, I think it comes pretty high. I mean, Voyager, Enterprise, TNG had, by and large, dreadful first seasons. I think only DS9 had a good first season, with a narrative arc that holds up today. So, I put Discovery second behind DS9, with room to grow.
Also, remember, that the showrunner left to go do American Gods half-way through production, so although the skeleton of his arc is there, there was a certain amount of improvisation from the original version of Season 1.
I agree that Lorca's heel-turn could have been handled better (and I would pay good money to see an episode of the ISS Discovery in the Prime Universe with Captain Killy in charge - that was the great leftover thread that I wish had been pulled). As far as the Mirror Universe being ridiculous - well, yes, but it always has been. You either roll with it, or you don't.
I think the two-parter that started the series was a mistake. They should have started the series with episode 3, and then told the Battle of the Binary Stars as flashback, maybe a couple of episodes later. The first episodes that most people saw for free aren't representative of what the show is really about.
But Disco has given us some of the best characters in all of Star Trek - I think Commander Saru is the most interesting alien in Trek since Spock. Ensign Tilly is Wesley, without all the annoying qualities that made Wesley so hated. The engineer has done a decent job of showing the tension between the scientists and the military, something touched on the Wrath of Khan but not really explored. Georgiou is awesome sauce, and I'm glad she can return at some point.
There's a little too much pew-pew-pew for my tastes, but kids these days.
Disco is a stock that I will continue to buy.
Long Live The Empire.

Posted by: EstoniaKat at March 12, 2018 03:16 AM (Zbmr0)

202 Your Agonizer please Estonia Kat.

Your opinion might carry more weight if you had accurately addressed it to the real author of the piece - The James Madison. Oregon Muse merely posted it for him.

And since I have become a wee bit OCD about formatting, self-publishing to Kindle and all, please work on your own formatting since it also distracts from your points that you do seem to like STD.

Survive and succeed!

Nyah!

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at March 12, 2018 04:35 AM (1xAqM)

203 A lot of what's wrong with STD is explained by the behind-the-scenes drama; the original concept by former DS9/VOY writer Bryan Fuller was to have an ongoing Klingon War arc, similar to the last 3 seasons of DS9. After he was fired, the new guys wanted to make it more like TOS/TNG so all these machinations have been to make the war go away. We'll see in season 2 if it was worthwhile.

It's also been noted that the real arc of the first season has been a slow crossfade from modern "prestige television" darkness to more principled Roddenberry liberalism, sort of easing modern audiences into what Star Trek is really supposed to be. That may be giving them more credit than they deserve, but it's a thought.

Finally, I can't believe Madison left out the most egregious bit: when Jason Issacs' character suddenly shed all his characterization to become Pure Evil, he yells that he's going to "Make the Terran Empire Great Again!". This was super-popular with the intended millennial audience, and I think everyone else, including Dems, rolled their eyes so far it generated some ER visits.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 12, 2018 08:58 AM (gm9yG)

204 The Agonizer--pretty much sums up Discovery (the first two seasons of Voyager and Enterprise notwithstanding).

Posted by: Bart Fouchard at March 12, 2018 09:03 AM (m44EZ)

205 I have not watched Discovery at all. The lefty politics of the cast just put me off at the outset. Hard to overcome that. I liked Enterprise, but I don't think many others did. Deep Space 9 should never have been made at all - the notion of a space *station* - i.e. stationary - violates the great idea of exploration in Star Trek. Voyager never caught my attention. Maybe I was kind of burned out at that point, along with Deep Space 9.

The original series is still the best overall, and you can see the work of great writers (and some not so great) there. I'm so glad they restored the prints - they look fantastic now; no doubt better than the TV sets of the time could have shown them.

However, The Next Generation ultimately brought a few of the greatest episodes ever. I think Yesterday's Enterprise was the best episode ever filmed of any Star Trek TV incarnation, and was better than many of the movies. Picard was never better and the story line completely captured me. They even managed to make Guinan relevant and useful and good. How could that even happen? And the one with Picard living out a complete life in an alien world while being controlled by that probe (sorry, blanking on the name) was also a fantastic episode.

So, maybe this wasn't a 'favorite episode' thread, but that's what came to mind.

Posted by: SomeGuyinTexas at March 12, 2018 12:33 PM (7jvRM)

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