Is It Time For The Supreme Court To Reaffirm Our Rights Against The Power Of The State?

I have always wondered about this. Lying to Investigators Shouldn't Be a Crime Why can't I, as a presumably innocent man, send the cops off on wild goose chases?

Part of the reason for my position involves symmetry. As long as government investigators are allowed to deceive you, you should be allowed to deceive government investigators. And deceive you they may -- rather willy=nilly. If a suspect confesses after police falsely tell him that his fingerprints were found at the crime scene, fine. If a suspect confesses after police falsely tell him that they have satellite images and DNA evidence linking him to the crime, fine. My view is that suspects should have the same freedom. If you can throw the police off the scent by telling them you weren’t there... fine.

It's time to take back some of our rights protecting us from an all-powerful government. Making it clear that we are on equal footing with the police is a powerful first step.

Posted by: CBD at 12:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Iowa

Posted by: Skip at February 18, 2018 11:55 AM (aC6Sd)

2 Good luck with a divided SC, one maybe 2 more Trump picks and we will see.
I'll get the corgis

Posted by: Skip at February 18, 2018 11:56 AM (aC6Sd)

3 Missouri

Posted by: son-of-ceviche at February 18, 2018 11:56 AM (RGJM+)

4 Where men plunder

Posted by: son-of-ceviche at February 18, 2018 11:58 AM (RGJM+)

5 Peruvia

Posted by: That deplorable guy who always says Peruvia... at February 18, 2018 11:58 AM (Tyii7)

6 I feel like I Payton Manning or something

Posted by: Skip at February 18, 2018 11:58 AM (aC6Sd)

7 Unless you're under oath you should be able to say anything.

Posted by: BignJames at February 18, 2018 11:59 AM (0+nbW)

8 I was OK with lying to investigators being a crime back when I believed that investigators weren't gaming the system whenever they had a whim to. I'm not there any more.

Posted by: Muad'dib at February 18, 2018 12:00 PM (nO+fH)

9 If we reaffirm our rights against he power of the state, Putin wins.

Posted by: Ripley at February 18, 2018 12:01 PM (MxEKc)

10 I agree completely. Furthermore, if you are not actually guilty of a crime, the police should not be able to retain any records such as fingerprints or DNA after a certain time period following a crime. Its one thing to take prints "to rule you out as a suspect" but its another to keep them on file for eternity.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 18, 2018 12:01 PM (39g3+)

11 9
If we reaffirm our rights against he power of the state, Putin wins.

Posted by: Ripley at February 18, 2018 12:01 PM (MxEKc)<

Your Bill Kristol impression is uncanny.

Posted by: Muad'dib at February 18, 2018 12:02 PM (nO+fH)

12 Lyin' in a den in Bombay
With a slack jaw, and not much to say
I said to the man, "are you trying to tempt me
Because I come from the land of plenty?"

Posted by: son-of-ceviche at February 18, 2018 12:02 PM (K9Tyy)

13 Secession is drawing closer and closer. It will happen sooner or later. As Rush mocks the millennials, what we have now is unsustainable.

Posted by: Soona at February 18, 2018 12:02 PM (Fs5vw)

14 But...but...if you haven't done anything wrong, you should have nothing to hide!

Posted by: Wisdom of the Proletariat at February 18, 2018 12:03 PM (Tyii7)

15 However, my main concern right now is that the courts themselves are out of control, usurping power and violating the constitution. They need to be reined back by the other two branches.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 18, 2018 12:03 PM (39g3+)

16 When I was out heard on radio a Leftist say We are not sure what else Mueller has and won't know until he makes a report in spring or summer, of course it would be best not to release it before the election.

Yeah, its best to hold that over our heads until after.

Posted by: Skip at February 18, 2018 12:04 PM (aC6Sd)

17 Listen to me very carefully, everything i say is a lie.

I*m lying.

Posted by: Mudd the 1st at February 18, 2018 12:05 PM (8Pamn)

18 I don't like the idea of lying to the government to send them on a wild goose chase. That goose chase is funded by my taxes. I'm glad we have the right to shut up, or tell the government to go get bent, but deliberately misleading investigators seems wrong.

Posted by: Grimaldi at February 18, 2018 12:05 PM (9Mzh9)

19 If the Supremes dont, at some point, We the People will.

Posted by: Diogenes at February 18, 2018 12:06 PM (0tfLf)

20 L' etat, c'est moi"

"Public servants" since day one.

Posted by: Anon a mouse at February 18, 2018 12:06 PM (7LY+6)

21 However, my main concern right now is that the courts themselves are out of control, usurping power and violating the constitution. They need to be reined back by the other two branches.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 18, 2018 12:03 PM (39g3+)

Congress has the right to impeach these judges. All it takes is a bit of intestinal fortitude.

Therein lies the problem.

Posted by: Soona at February 18, 2018 12:06 PM (Fs5vw)

22 It's time to take back some of our rights protecting us from an all-powerful government. Making it clear that we are on equal footing with the police is a powerful first step.
Here are the magic words: "I am invoking my 6th amendment right to council. Get a warrant or a subpoena".

Then shut up.

Don't answer a bunch of questions and then remain silent on "where did you hide the body". Just don't make any statement at all.

Posted by: Chuck C at February 18, 2018 12:06 PM (0V2ki)

23 Made the mistake of going on twitter this morning. Finally have blood pressure back under control. Also, Jake Tapper is an ass.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 12:06 PM (gC2IV)

24 This. And parallel construction should be fruit of the poisonous tree as well, if the initiating evidence would be unavailable to prosecutors.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at February 18, 2018 12:07 PM (Dp6qK)

25 And by Supreme court your assuming Aunt Ruthy, the Wise Latina and a few other hard core Leftist

Posted by: Skip at February 18, 2018 12:07 PM (aC6Sd)

26 I don't like the idea of lying to the government to send them on a wild goose chase. That goose chase is funded by my taxes.

I don't like it either, but it shouldn't be unlawful. Its the job of investigators to discern what is true and what is not, and have the experience, intelligence, and wisdom to know the difference. Almost all civil rights violations by the state come from "its just easier this way."

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 18, 2018 12:07 PM (39g3+)

27 19 If the Supremes dont, at some point, We the People will.
Posted by: Diogenes at February 18, 2018 12:06 PM (0tfLf)

I wish I could believe this.

Posted by: Soona at February 18, 2018 12:08 PM (Fs5vw)

28 >>This. And parallel construction should be fruit of the poisonous tree as well, if the initiating evidence would be unavailable to prosecutors.

I'm pretty sure this is a core reason that General Flynn is going to have his case thrown out.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 18, 2018 12:08 PM (/tuJf)

29 parallel construction should be fruit of the poisonous tree as well, if the initiating evidence would be unavailable to prosecutors.

Yeah creating a fictional investigation in the first place is basically lying so while I get the idea of protecting assets that's just not just at all.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 18, 2018 12:10 PM (39g3+)

30 If investigators can say you after committing a crime had no 'intent' so that makes all crime go away. But only for those they 'like'

i'm for the fluffing your own case.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:10 PM (Z8j2x)

31 18 I don't like the idea of lying to the government to send them on a wild goose chase. That goose chase is funded by my taxes. I'm glad we have the right to shut up, or tell the government to go get bent, but deliberately misleading investigators seems wrong.
Posted by: Grimaldi at February 18, 2018 12:05 PM (9Mzh9)

Read the story (the indictment) of young Mr. Papadopolous, whose crime of lying to investigators during a political witch hunt will likely ruin his life.

Sometimes we feel being stupid should be a crime. Until your own stupidity is caught in the crosshairs of an overzealous prosecutor.

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at February 18, 2018 12:12 PM (Dp6qK)

32 I agree completely. Furthermore, if you are not actually guilty of a crime, the police should not be able to retain any records such as fingerprints or DNA after a certain time period following a crime. Its one thing to take prints "to rule you out as a suspect" but its another to keep them on file for eternity.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor
*****************************

And they call those DACA people are Dreamers.

Posted by: Bob at February 18, 2018 12:15 PM (g4YTo)

33 when investigators can threaten to ruin you and your family, by making shit up.. and You have no recourse unless you are the 'one' with tons of cash , fame fortune and on the right side of the Propaganda ministers.

i say do whatever it takes to protect you and your family.

because the law is not blind anylonger, doesn't even pretend.

it's not equal.

so why should i feel a moral imperative to do what's right?

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:15 PM (Z8j2x)

34 I see that Tapper is going to moderate a town hall with the Florida kids. Wonder what the conclusions will be. It's a puzzler.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 12:15 PM (gC2IV)

35 deliberately misleading investigators seems wrong.

Posted by: Grimaldi at February 18, 2018 12:05 PM (9Mzh9)

But they lie to us. Do they have rights we don't?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 18, 2018 12:16 PM (wYseH)

36 Secession is drawing closer and closer.

Not sure we're there yet but the great divide is becoming unbridgeable. I made the mistake of logging into FacePlant for the first time in quite a while and was a tad shocked at the gun-grabbing and general anti-Trump hysteria. What I found most disturbing is that some of this emo bullcrap was coming from folks I thought I once had some respect for. The left has really cranked up the agitprop and it's being swallowed hook, line and sinker by people who should know better.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at February 18, 2018 12:16 PM (Tyii7)

37 You can mitigate this disadvantage by never, ever, ever talking to the cops. Never. Ever. With a cherry on top. Politely decline to be questioned without your attorney present.

Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 12:16 PM (Sfs6o)

38 Bah.
You have the right to remain silent.
And in the VAST majority of cases, no one is prosecuted for lying to the po-po.

I would definitely like to see jury nullification on charges of lying to investigators when the 'lies' are trivial and when there is no other actual crime committed. The Libby, Flynn, and even Martha Stewart cases come to mind. These things are almost always political.
Maybe there is some legislative remedy here. Maybe.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 18, 2018 12:16 PM (0jtPF)

39 The mistake here is thinking you HAVE to talk to investigators.. you don't.

You don't have to say a fucking word to them.

Answer no questions.. "I decline" is all you have to say.. if they have a case, they can take it to a prosecutor..

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 18, 2018 12:16 PM (5tSKk)

40 Yeah, I don't get it either. How are investigators supposed to tell if it was my "intent" to lie to them if I say I wasn't there at 9 p.m.? And how am I supposed to tell if it was their "intent" to lie to me when they tell me they have video of me there at 9 p.m. when it was actually 9:08?

None of this stuff is in the Constitution, and they know it.

Posted by: pookysgirl at February 18, 2018 12:17 PM (XKZwp)

41 Bob, I have no independent recollection of that event.

Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 12:18 PM (g4YTo)

42 Politely decline to be questioned without your attorney present.

Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 12:16 PM (Sfs6o)

Yup. I have beaten that message into the brats, and anyone else within earshot.

And one more thing...never consent to a search of anything. Not your car, not your house, not your pockets. Nothing.

They can force you, but that is different than you agreeing.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 18, 2018 12:18 PM (wYseH)

43 chi, sure unless you have no idea that somehow you've committed a crime and they are threatening You kis if you just answer this One question.

and at this point why would one think, an atty would even put in the effort to save you unless you can keep rolling out that cash?

and as i see our betetrs in the FBI CIA, DOJ, actually have political axes to grins. (look at cake bakers)

what can a a citizen do but defend Him'her/self?

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:19 PM (Z8j2x)

44 Secession is drawing closer and closer. It will happen sooner or later. As Rush mocks the millennials, what we have now is unsustainable.
Posted by: Soona
............
Nonsense.. utterly laughable.

Who exactly is going to secede? And how exactly?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 18, 2018 12:19 PM (5tSKk)

45 Somebody, I think it was ScoggDog, predicted that the Republicans will sell us out on gun control.

In the EMT there was a link to an article saying that a major GOP donor has said, "No more money until an assault weapons ban is passed."

How many blatantly unconstitutional laws are we supposed to tolerate? At what point does it become a question of "use them or lose them"?

Posted by: rickl at February 18, 2018 12:19 PM (sdi6R)

46 Why confess if you're not guilty? I'd hope that they'd hold out on the hopes they'd be exonerated. This reminds me of the sidebar article a few months ago about trial by ordeal - similar thing. The judges would use deception to pressure a guilty plea, but if the person were innocent they'd accept the ordeal and stick their hands in "boiling water" and their innocence would be "proved".

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at February 18, 2018 12:20 PM (/qEW2)

47 the law is set up for a moral peoples, assuming those that apply the law are moral.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:21 PM (Z8j2x)

48 Really you should not talk with any agents of the state, who have the power to take away your rights and property, without your attorney present or recording the conversation. If these agents are not comfortable with that, then you can assume their motives are less than honorable.

You'd be suprised just how many different branches of Stasi we now have in our country.

Posted by: Pound Me Too at February 18, 2018 12:21 PM (PFjNT)

49 21---Congress has the right to impeach these judges. All it takes is a bit of intestinal fortitude.

Therein lies the problem.
Posted by: Soona at February 18, 2018 12:06 PM (Fs5vw)
----------------------------
It would take not only "intestinal fortitude," but Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and a herd of sparkling unicorns.

The simple reality is that you cannot get 2/3 of the Senate to remove a clown from office. That remedy is a chimera.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 18, 2018 12:21 PM (0jtPF)

50 Trump has intestinal fortitude but not enough to fire Mueller...but at least he uses him for a pissing post.

Posted by: torabora at February 18, 2018 12:22 PM (xdxQI)

51 Secession may be different than we think. Imagine if the majority of a state can separate from the major urban area? Urban and rural is the heart of many of the other divisions. Isolate the cities. Build the wall around them.

Posted by: Diogenes at February 18, 2018 12:23 PM (0tfLf)

52 45 Somebody, I think it was ScoggDog, predicted that the Republicans will sell us out on gun control.

In the EMT there was a link to an article saying that a major GOP donor has said, "No more money until an assault weapons ban is passed."

How many blatantly unconstitutional laws are we supposed to tolerate? At what point does it become a question of "use them or lose them"?
Posted by: rickl at February 18, 2018 12:19 PM (sdi6R)

They'll sell us out on gun control in the same bill as the DACA sellout.

Posted by: Surfperch at February 18, 2018 12:24 PM (rHGeg)

53 And they call those DACA people are Dreamers.

Yeah, it would take a monumental change in culture, people embracing liberty and independence once more in a way alien to us today.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 18, 2018 12:24 PM (39g3+)

54 You should not talk to the police, or agree to an interview. Even (or especially) when you know you're innocent.

The police in such a situation are not your friends. if you are in custody, you want a lawyer and you want to state over and over again that you are exercising your right to remain silent.

Posted by: Revenant at February 18, 2018 12:25 PM (yXLbm)

55 You can mitigate this disadvantage by never, ever, ever talking to the
cops. Never. Ever. With a cherry on top. Politely decline to be
questioned without your attorney present.

My father in law gave me this same advice.
He was a Boston cop.

Posted by: tu3031 at February 18, 2018 12:25 PM (O5Q3r)

56 Let's toss civil forfeiture and personal liability for prosecutorial misconduct onto the trash heap as well. Art of the Deal.

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at February 18, 2018 12:25 PM (Dp6qK)

57 Secession may be different than we think. Imagine if the majority of a state can separate from the major urban area? Urban and rural is the heart of many of the other divisions. Isolate the cities. Build the wall around them.
Posted by: Diogenes
............
They are trying this in California.. rural counties want to create their own state..

http://tinyurl.com/y8rmgadn

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 18, 2018 12:26 PM (5tSKk)

58 revenant, the problem becomes for the poor person they have no options, they will plead to anything lesser because they cannot afford an actual atty to preserve their rights.

happens every day.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:26 PM (Z8j2x)

59 I'm pretty much of the mind that the FIB should be disbanded completely at worst or broken into 8-10 specific divisions.

What the FIB has devolved into is not making us safer or more secure. The FIB is a STASSI or NKVD.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at February 18, 2018 12:26 PM (3BFzK)

60 I won't know what to think about this until Jimmy Kimmel weighs in.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 12:26 PM (gC2IV)

61 I'm sorry I meant to say an incompetent STASSI or NKVD.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at February 18, 2018 12:27 PM (3BFzK)

62 Very sad this am: neighbor kid committed suicide Fri night. He had problems and family tried to do all the 'right' things for him. He was just a nice kid (who was painfully stupid in some ways). I call him a kid, but he was 28 or so; his parents did everything the school said to do and everything the police said to do and it all went to garbage. His father died exactly three years ago so I'm pretty sure he overdosed on something or another, probably inadvertently. What always got me about his situation is that his parents did whatever the 'experts' said to do. So sad about this kid who grew up with mine and I'll miss him -- came over on Christmas and Holloween with his daughter (cute as a bug) and he was such a proud father. I'm just angry and irritable. Sorry.

Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 12:27 PM (MIKMs)

63 very, very sorry, mustbe, prayers for all those who cared.

and for his desperate soul.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:29 PM (Z8j2x)

64 Congress has the right to impeach these judges. All it takes is a bit of intestinal fortitude.

Therein lies the problem.
Posted by: Soona at February 18, 2018 12:06 PM (Fs5vw)

They can be impeached, hypothetically, but not removed. There aren't enough votes in the senate even if they had intestinal fortitude.

Posted by: Surfperch at February 18, 2018 12:29 PM (rHGeg)

65 Chi.
I know and follow with interest. I hate SoCal.

Posted by: Diogenes at February 18, 2018 12:30 PM (0tfLf)

66 50: Wish he'd piss on Rosenstein and Sessions more

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 12:31 PM (5gaNQ)

67 I'm just angry and irritable. Sorry.
Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 12:27 PM (MIKMs)

For understandable reasons. My condolences to his family and your family.

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at February 18, 2018 12:32 PM (Dp6qK)

68 i find it extremely sad. i have never broken the law, i follow every law i know. and yet if they were to try to at this point screw me because i don't accept their ideology which we've seen over the last decade (cake b on steroids i feel about as much obligation to them as i would

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:33 PM (Z8j2x)

69 Yes congress can impeach a judge but they never will. There has been one crooked judge impeached since the Constitution was ratified. He was caught red-handed in a bribery crime. That is Alcee Hastings who is now a Democrat representative for the 20th district in FL. You can be a Representative even though you have been convicted of a felony.

He will probably be the one and only judge to ever be impeached by congress. The Democrats will never ever vote to impeach a Democrat again.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at February 18, 2018 12:33 PM (mpXpK)

70 Get this as the hot take from leftists:

1. Outlaw the assault rifles.
2. Have buybacks.
3. If that doesn't work, confiscate them.
4. If that doesn't work, pry them from cold, dead hands if you need to.
(I don't fucking care if you're a good, lawful gun owner. I don't fucking care.)

So to save people from guns we must kill 1000 times more people with guns.

Also, I don't think the government people that come to take the guns would keep on taking the guns after the first few thousand face trained and well armed gun owners. But that is just me looking at what the FIB and police departments manage to do now.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at February 18, 2018 12:33 PM (3BFzK)

71 Unless you're a criminal, most people aren't used to contact with the police performing any sort of investigation. The police will use whatever advantage they can find that serves their purpose; whether it's threats or lies or making you physically uncomfortable. Talking to them in this sort of stressful situation gives the questioner a huge advantage and they know it. The average citizen is unlikely to be thinking clearly and the easiest thing to remember is never talk to the cops.

Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 12:33 PM (Sfs6o)

72 46 Why confess if you're not guilty? I'd hope that they'd hold out on the hopes they'd be exonerated. This reminds me of the sidebar article a few months ago about trial by ordeal - similar thing. The judges would use deception to pressure a guilty plea, but if the person were innocent they'd accept the ordeal and stick their hands in "boiling water" and their innocence would be "proved".
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at February 18, 2018 12:20 PM (/qEW2)

I think a lot of "plea bargains" are aimed at people with low IQs, and as willow said, not enough resources to hire a competent lawyer.

Posted by: rickl at February 18, 2018 12:33 PM (sdi6R)

73 -i feel no obligation to them, I do however feel obligation to be decent to society in general.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:34 PM (Z8j2x)

74 Trump simply needs to announce that the executive branch will comply with decisions of scouts, a coequal branch, but not decisions of lower courts.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 12:34 PM (gC2IV)

75 Iowa
Posted by: Skip at February 18, 2018 11:55 AM

Omaha

Posted by: P. Manning at February 18, 2018 12:35 PM (DMUuz)

76 i have never broken the law, (bah i'm sure i've broken a law i didn't know of)

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:35 PM (Z8j2x)

77 It will likely fall on deaf ears but that Godford Anglican Church just got a piece of my mind. I reminded them that guns are all that is between Christianity's extinction and the rule by the State...that the Left desires. There is no doubt in my mind that many Christians would never connect the erasing of the First Amendment with the demise of the 2nd. That is the two step punch... To eliminate the bitter clingers. AOSHQ morons understand that.

Posted by: torabora at February 18, 2018 12:35 PM (xdxQI)

78
In the EMT there was a link to an article saying that a major GOP donor has said, "No more money until an assault weapons ban is passed."

Sounds like the Chamber of Commerce on illegal immigration.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 18, 2018 12:35 PM (IqV8l)

79 So, in summary, never talk to the cops.

Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 12:36 PM (Sfs6o)

80 74 Trump simply needs to announce that the executive branch will comply with decisions of scouts, a coequal branch, but not decisions of lower courts.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 12:34 PM (gC2IV)

And cookies. Don't forget my constitutional right to samoas.

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at February 18, 2018 12:36 PM (Dp6qK)

81
I don't know about the content yet, still laughing at the Lindsey Vonn you ski bad thing.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 18, 2018 12:37 PM (r+sAi)

82 torabora, they probably guffawed at your letter, Yet we have real live recent history of just these action by nation states to get rid of their undesirables.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:37 PM (Z8j2x)

83 Scotus, but you all knew that. Shit.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 12:38 PM (gC2IV)

84 Again with the retarded "assault weapon" bullshit.

Posted by: steevy at February 18, 2018 12:38 PM (LiyEm)

85 70 Get this as the hot take from leftists:

1. Outlaw the assault rifles.
2. Have buybacks.
3. If that doesn't work, confiscate them.
4. If that doesn't work, pry them from cold, dead hands if you need to.
(I don't fucking care if you're a good, lawful gun owner. I don't fucking care.)

So to save people from guns we must kill 1000 times more people with guns.
Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at February 18, 2018 12:33 PM (3BFzK)

The masks, as we say, are coming off.

Leftists are perfectly willing to commit mass murder to achieve and retain power. They are becoming increasingly less shy about saying it in public.

Posted by: rickl at February 18, 2018 12:38 PM (sdi6R)

86 Allright ... Now we're getting down to it. To one of The Fundamental Questions in my mind.

If we agree ... and it sounds like we do ... that The State has over- stepped its bounds against The Citizenry ...

... why do so many of you still reflexively defend the Front Line of The State's will ? Yes ... I'm talking about your friendly neighborhood cop.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 18, 2018 12:39 PM (dYdbl)

87 #72 you rang?

Posted by: John Edwards at February 18, 2018 12:39 PM (xdxQI)

88 Leftists are perfectly willing to commit mass murder to achieve and retain power. They are becoming increasingly less shy about saying it in public.
Posted by: rickl at February 18, 2018 12:38 PM (sdi6R)

they are outright open about their desire.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:39 PM (Z8j2x)

89 I do blame a lot of this on "law & order" type conservatism that went overboard. Even Trump seems to subscribe this idea that law enforcement gets to do whatever the hell it wants in order to "lower crime".

For too long, we've had a soft spot for losing our civil rights in the name of National Security and local crime.

Big government is big government. Maybe now seeing how weaponized the government has become at every level will wake people up.

Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 12:39 PM (uc45P)

90 Only the power of the state can give the left what they want.We have seen that movie before..

Posted by: steevy at February 18, 2018 12:40 PM (LiyEm)

91
It sucks when the cops lie, but even more when the prosecutors lie AND fabricate.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 18, 2018 12:41 PM (r+sAi)

92 seems to me all the branches of government need some trimming

Posted by: Buzsaw90 at February 18, 2018 12:41 PM (vChNs)

93 The left-MSM hysteria after the recent Florida school shooting is the worst I can recall. Maybe because it is getting hooked up with #TheReststance? At least Trump is not caving to the pressure like the Republican would like to.

If Hillary was president there would be LEO's and activists going door to door asking people to "voluntarily" turn in their guns. For the children.

Posted by: Ripley at February 18, 2018 12:41 PM (MxEKc)

94 Here's a good one I've used on gun grabbers before. Ask them what exactly the British were on their way to do at Concord. Why do you think it would be any different this time?

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 12:41 PM (gC2IV)

95
79 So, in summary, never talk to the cops.
Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 12:36 PM (Sfs6o)
----------
Also, do not wrap plastic bags around your head or take a bath with a toaster.

Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 12:41 PM (Sfs6o)

96 "...i have never broken the law, i follow every law i know.

Believe me, you've broken more than you know.
After all, that is the entire point of modern law, which is to make criminals and miscreants of all of us.

Prosecutorial discretion takes care of the rest.

Posted by: navybrat at February 18, 2018 12:41 PM (w7KSn)

97 The police use your innocence against you.
____________________________________

Congress has the right to impeach these judges. All it takes is a bit of intestinal fortitude.

Therein lies the problem.
Posted by: Soona at February 18, 2018 12:06 PM (Fs5vw)

They can be impeached, hypothetically, but not removed. There aren't enough votes in the senate even if they had intestinal fortitude.

Posted by: Surfperch at February 18, 2018 12:29 PM (rHGeg)
********

A convention of states.

Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 12:42 PM (g4YTo)

98 Isolate the cities. Build the wall around them.
Posted by: Diogenes at February 18, 2018 12:23 PM (0tfLf)

--

you're suggesting getting medieval on them

Posted by: Buzsaw90 at February 18, 2018 12:42 PM (vChNs)

99 I sure showed those religious nuts with guns who runs the show.

Posted by: Zombie Janet Reno at February 18, 2018 12:43 PM (xdxQI)

100 So, in summary, never talk to the cops.
=====

Most of us in flyoverland have a generally positive view of police. However, reality is eroding that positive image. Who are these 'experts' telling us what to do and how to do it? If her daddy's rich, take her out for a meal, if her daddy's poor, just do what you feel . . .

Two-tier justice. I used to make jokes about everyone getting a law degree so that there was at least some parity or defense.

Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 12:43 PM (MIKMs)

101 If criminals stopped telling the truth to investigators, we would have prisons full of innocent people.

Posted by: Roy at February 18, 2018 12:43 PM (ABjxW)

102 You may follow every lawyou know but you have probably broken/will break one you don't know.Ignorance is no defense and the law books are 3 feet thick.

Posted by: steevy at February 18, 2018 12:43 PM (LiyEm)

103
Leftists are perfectly willing to commit mass murder to achieve and retain power. They are becoming increasingly less shy about saying it in public.
Posted by: rickl at February 18, 2018 12:38 PM

They will turn it around and say you committed suicide by not complying with "common sense" regulations.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 18, 2018 12:44 PM (IqV8l)

104 and you want to state over and over again that you are exercising your right to remain silent.

---

I prefer to mime it

Posted by: Buzsaw90 at February 18, 2018 12:44 PM (vChNs)

105 Always use your right to remain silent.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at February 18, 2018 12:44 PM (EoRCO)

106 Any gun control discussions eventually benefits Republicans at the polls.

Particularly all these Senate Dems up for reelection in deep red states.

Do you think Joe Manchin of West Virginia wants a discussion about gun control in the upcoming election?

Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 12:44 PM (uc45P)

107 95
79 So, in summary, never talk to the cops.
Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 12:36 PM (Sfs6o)
----------
Also, do not wrap plastic bags around your head or take a bath with a toaster.
Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 12:41 PM (Sfs6o)

-----------

What about running with scissors?

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 12:44 PM (gC2IV)

108 navybrat, i corrected my post somewhat. i had a keyboard failure or mouse failure.

but you are corerect the laws i know, and of course there must be thousands i don't like believing i am the mother of my children and decide when they know about sex. not the state.

see one already.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:45 PM (Z8j2x)

109 A convention of states.
Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 12:42 PM (g4YTo)

I believe there will be a different convention and I am now sure that there is no peaceful solution IMHO

Posted by: MAC SOG and nothing will happen at February 18, 2018 12:45 PM (czkHE)

110 Seems to me that more mass shootings would be averted if one were to hunt down and kill every Democrat.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 18, 2018 12:45 PM (Dbv1R)

111 What about running with scissors?

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 12:44 PM (gC2IV)

Don't make my stop this car!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 18, 2018 12:45 PM (wYseH)

112 You can mitigate this disadvantage by never, ever, ever talking to the cops. Never. Ever. With a cherry on top. Politely decline to be questioned without your attorney present.
Posted by: Weasel
---
I*ve mentioned this here before - when my late wife killed herself the detectives wanted to pin it on me. The first responding officer told me *we all know what happened here but the detectives are going to put you through hell. Dont talk to them at all.*

I did - but I was in shock. My head hurt, I wanted to throw up, my kids were inconsolable, my ears buzzed and all that they used against me. The chief finally put an end to it after I said I was sick and needed a Dr. He called a few days later to apologize.

Posted by: Tonypete at February 18, 2018 12:46 PM (tr2D7)

113 Here's a good one I've used on gun grabbers before.
Ask them what exactly the British were on their way to do at Concord.
Why do you think it would be any different this time?
Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 12:41 PM

You talk to a significantly better class of gun grabber than I do, since none of the ones I've talk to have a clue as to the answer. Sad.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 18, 2018 12:46 PM (DMUuz)

114 My only crime is that my boner only lasted 4 hours. I needed a nap. And a sammich.

Posted by: Fritz at February 18, 2018 12:46 PM (bJ0w+)

115 They will turn it around and say you committed suicide by not complying with "common sense" regulations.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 18, 2018 12:44 PM (IqV8l)

no they will say you had it coming to you because you didn't participate in their cause du jour

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:46 PM (Z8j2x)

116 With a cherry on top. Politely decline to be
questioned without your attorney present.

---

1. I decline to be questioned without my attorney present.
2. FYI, i don't have an attorney

Posted by: Buzsaw90 at February 18, 2018 12:46 PM (vChNs)

117 72---I think a lot of "plea bargains" are aimed at people with low IQs, and as willow said, not enough resources to hire a competent lawyer.
Posted by: rickl at February 18, 2018 12:33 PM (sdi6R)
--------------------

Eh. There may be a few saps in the mix but the overwhelming majority of people who cop to a lesser plea actually are guilty of the greater offense. They get a slap on the wrist because the court system is overloaded.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 18, 2018 12:47 PM (0jtPF)

118 So ... still too soon for my question ?

Somebody said to me ... here ... that I say alot of shit outside the Overton Window. I think I get what they mean.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 18, 2018 12:47 PM (dYdbl)

119 106 Any gun control discussions eventually benefits Republicans at the polls.

Particularly all these Senate Dems up for reelection in deep red states.

Do you think Joe Manchin of West Virginia wants a discussion about gun control in the upcoming election?
Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 12:44 PM (uc45P)

Way to motivate R voters during midterms, Ds.

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at February 18, 2018 12:48 PM (Dp6qK)

120 bah

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:48 PM (Z8j2x)

121 60 I won't know what to think about this until Jimmy Kimmel weighs in.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 12:26 PM (gC2IV)

---

218 pounds

Posted by: Jimmy Kimmel at February 18, 2018 12:48 PM (vChNs)

122 What about running with scissors?

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 12:44 PM (gC2IV)

Don't make my stop this car!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 18, 2018 12:45 PM

Probably too late to discuss getting involved in a land war in Asia?

Posted by: Diogenes at February 18, 2018 12:48 PM (0tfLf)

123 66 50: Wish he'd piss on Rosenstein and Sessions more
Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 12:31 PM (5gaNQ)

---

We can help

Posted by: Russian Hookers at February 18, 2018 12:49 PM (vChNs)

124 margaritte if you are in an tax argument with the irs.
they say you owe this, i say wht i do not, they say pay up, you have no money..
do you hire an atty for that extra 1k or do you pay up?

this happens all the time.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:50 PM (Z8j2x)

125 Baaaaa.

Posted by: The Sheep at February 18, 2018 12:50 PM (DMUuz)

126 Big government is big government. Maybe now seeing how weaponized the government has become at every level will wake people up.

This is key. Big government isn't bad because of its size, but because of its violation of the constitution an liberty. Government has only one tendency: to grow and to take away freedom. The founding fathers were absolute right to call it a fire. Tend it carefully and constantly or it soon becomes a forest fire, taking over everything.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 18, 2018 12:50 PM (39g3+)

127 baaa black sheep.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:51 PM (Z8j2x)

128 You talk to a significantly better class of gun grabber than I do, since none of the ones I've talk to have a clue as to the answer. Sad.

Posted by: Duncanthrax
********************

Nor do they comprehend that it has any bearing on today. History, to them, is a movie.

Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 12:51 PM (g4YTo)

129 I*ve mentioned this here before - when my late wife killed herself the detectives wanted to pin it on me. The first responding officer told me *we all know what happened here but the detectives are going to put you through hell. Dont talk to them at all.*

I did - but I was in shock. My head hurt, I wanted to throw up, my kids were inconsolable, my ears buzzed and all that they used against me. The chief finally put an end to it after I said I was sick and needed a Dr. He called a few days later to apologize.
Posted by: Tonypete

___________

Wow, that is horrible.

And I'm sure if you said you wanted to lawyer up, it makes you look guilty.

I agree about not talking to law enforcement ever. They are trained to manipulate people to say what hey want to hear.

Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 12:52 PM (uc45P)

130 They are already breaking the Law by not securing our rights.

They

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:52 PM (Z8j2x)

131 so sorry Tony.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:52 PM (Z8j2x)

132 1. I decline to be questioned without my attorney present.

2. FYI, i don't have an attorney
=====

Then you go to jail. I think the cops use this most effectively in quiet law-abiding areas because what suburbanite is going to be 'processed' with all that entails. Tell us what we want to hear or you will go to jail. Pretty sure that people will lie, cheat, and steal to avoid that if the cops are determined.

Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 12:53 PM (MIKMs)

133 This is very touching. Heroic ROTC kid killed in the Florida school shooting buried with full military honors.

http://bit.ly/2EPfbbD

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Broke, Woke, Toke, Joke at February 18, 2018 12:54 PM (+y/Ru)

134
Always use your right to remain silent.

Shut up already!

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 18, 2018 12:54 PM (r+sAi)

135 North and eastern Colorado had a secession movement going, but since there were only a few hundred thousand people in those rural wastelands, nobody took it seriously. The movement just died AFAIK.

Dumping those counties on Wyoming would seem the obvious solution; Wyoming seems to depopulated at present to get two senators.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at February 18, 2018 12:54 PM (6FqZa)

136 124 margaritte if you are in an tax argument with the irs.
they say you owe this, i say wht i do not, they say pay up, you have no money..
do you hire an atty for that extra 1k or do you pay up?

this happens all the time.
Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:50 PM (Z8j2x)
--------------------------
I pay.

But I was talking about ordinary "street crime." The notion that all of these thugs with long rap sheets are only copping a plea because they are victims of the Man is just plain false. In most cases, they are getting off easy.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 18, 2018 12:54 PM (0jtPF)

137 The left-MSM hysteria after the recent Florida school shooting is the worst I can recall. Maybe because it is getting hooked up with #TheReststance? At least Trump is not caving to the pressure like the Republican would like to.

If Hillary was president there would be LEO's and activists going door to door asking people to "voluntarily" turn in their guns. For the children.
Posted by: Ripley at February 18, 2018 12:41 PM

I think the reason that the hysteria is so loud now is to mitigate the damage to the FBI for dropping the ball on apprehending the well known Mr Cruz before he snapped. If the public were to focus on this latest screw up by the FBI heads would roll.

Posted by: Chillin the most at February 18, 2018 12:55 PM (7K25Q)

138 Even Trump seems to subscribe this idea that law enforcement gets to do whatever the hell it wants in order to "lower crime".

*********************

I don't think this is true. Trump has a lot of respect for and loves law enforcement peeps, but he's not an idiot. As soon as they do something wrong he shivs them right up the ass. I remember how severely he criticized San Jose (and other departments) for failing to protect Trump supporters, and he is flat out lampooning the FBI for failing to followup on the shooter. He's definitely been casting a spotlight on how dangerous law enforcement agencies when they're corrupt and incompetent.

Posted by: A Woke Shitholer at February 18, 2018 12:56 PM (+dsLj)

139 So, in summary, never talk to the cops.
Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 12:36 PM

Also, do not wrap plastic bags around your head or take a bath with a toaster.
Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 12:41 PM

What about running with scissors?
Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 12:44 PM

Don't make my stop this car!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 18, 2018 12:45 PM

Probably too late to discuss getting involved in a land war in Asia?
Posted by: Diogenes at February 18, 2018 12:48 PM

-----------------------------

And don't keep your eyes crossed too long or they'll stay that way.

Posted by: Hands at February 18, 2018 12:56 PM (EzdLW)

140 133 This is very touching. Heroic ROTC kid killed in the Florida school shooting buried with full military honors.

http://bit.ly/2EPfbbD
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Broke, Woke, Toke, Joke at February 18, 2018 12:54 PM (+y/Ru)

Kids like this are our hope for the future

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 12:56 PM (5gaNQ)

141
If everyone charged with a crime or violation insisted on a jury trial, what would happen to our judicial system? Cloward-Piven time!

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at February 18, 2018 12:56 PM (Q12lg)

142 Margarita, i agree there is that also. But the escape/or saving of justice really is surer for the defendant if they roll out cash.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:57 PM (Z8j2x)

143 if you are in an tax argument with the irs.
they say you owe this, i say wht i do not, they say pay up, you have no money..
do you hire an atty for that extra 1k or do you pay up?

this happens all the time.

Posted by: willow
****************

That's a practical question. If the difference is 250 it's not worth paying 1k. If the difference is 5k it's worth perusing the argument.

However, their language is not from Webster's, never talk to the IRS yourself.

Never talk to the IRS without a CPA.

Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 12:57 PM (g4YTo)

144 If the public were to focus on this latest screw up by the FBI heads would roll.
Posted by: Chillin the most at February 18, 2018 12:55 PM (7K25Q)

I would like to believe that but the public is made up of 50% LIV/LIB

Posted by: MAC SOG and nothing will happen at February 18, 2018 12:57 PM (czkHE)

145 126
Big government isn't bad because of its size, but because of its violation of the constitution an liberty. Government has only one tendency: to grow and to take away freedom. The founding fathers were absolute right to call it a fire. Tend it carefully and constantly or it soon becomes a forest fire, taking over everything.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 18, 2018 12:50 PM (39g3+)

I have come to believe that government is virtually indistinguishable from organized crime. What's the difference between royal families and mob families? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

America's Founders tried to chart a different course, but their efforts have been undermined and delegitimized ever since.

Posted by: rickl at February 18, 2018 12:57 PM (sdi6R)

146 Another one to make gun grabbers heads explode. Ok, let's say that private ownership of guns is outlawed. Possession of a firearm is a felony punishable by ten years in prison. Whatcha gonna do when inert city minorities are imprisoned at higher rates than the rest of the country? Disparate impact and all.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 12:58 PM (gC2IV)

147 Outlawing civil service unions would go along way to regaining our control over government malfeasance.

Should be number one priority.

Posted by: Under Fire at February 18, 2018 12:58 PM (r9UYA)

148 The plea bargain is the central cog of our judicial system.

Absent the voluntary admission of guilt by the vast majority of the accused, the system would collapse.

During my last enlistment into a jury pool, in four months there was a jury selection for only one case (both criminal and civil combined).

Meanwhile, dockets of 40 or so individuals per day were routinely adjudicated 4 days a week at sessions level.

If every individual charged in any fashion were to request a jury of their peers, it would bog down the system to such a degree that it would become impossible to process every crime.

Posted by: Malcolm Tent at February 18, 2018 12:59 PM (G0Dbd)

149
The f'ing state tax people said I owed more, I said bull I can figure a simple flat tax and I'll fight until they said it was $8.70. I paid, as the principle of time beat the principle of right.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 18, 2018 12:59 PM (r+sAi)

150 I know two guys who are champion bullshitters.

One is a detective. Everything he says is either totally true or totally false. e.g., Claims to have gotten a quickie from the porn star Seka in early 80s.

The other is a criminal lawyer. Everything he says starts with a grain of truth,which is then exaggerated beyond recognition.

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 18, 2018 12:59 PM (pV/54)

151 But I was talking about ordinary "street crime." The notion that all of
these thugs with long rap sheets are only copping a plea because they
are victims of the Man is just plain false. In most cases, they are
getting off easy.
=====

The legendary slippery slope. If our LE peeps don't follow the rules, why should we? Someone is dirty, tiresome, nasty, whatever, but cops don't have a case. Is it okay for them to invent one because the target is a 'usual suspect'?

Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 12:59 PM (MIKMs)

152 This isn't being discussed anywhere as a "jihadist attack," but if you read between the lines and browse the comments sections, you discover that what was happening was Muslim immigrants were harassing, threatening and beating up non-Muslims -- all while taking a South Pacific cruise ship!:

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/ A-Carnival-cruise-in-the-South-Pacific-descended-12622028.php

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5404579/ Proposal-ruined-brawls-board-Carnival-cruise-Melbourne.html

Buried deep in the second article is the last name of the berserk clan: "Barkho," which I just checked out -- it's a Middle Eastern last name. People with the last name Barkho have the following first names:

Iqbal
Zuhair
Basam
Achour
...etc.

Some commenters were specifically identifying the perpeetrators as "Lebanese," but that may be just Australian slang for "Muslim," and not necessarily someone from Lebanon in articular.

Plus, they have "jihadi-style" beards in some of the few photos of the offenders.

But no, this is being passed off as today's "funny news."

Posted by: zombie at February 18, 2018 12:59 PM (42M22)

153 Iowa
Posted by: Skip at February 18, 2018 11:55 AM

Omaha
Posted by: P. Manning at February 18, 2018 12:35 PM

I cracked myself up for a half hour over that

Posted by: Skip at February 18, 2018 01:00 PM (aC6Sd)

154 margaritte if you are in an tax argument with the irs.
they say you owe this, i say wht i do not, they say pay up, you have no money..
do you hire an atty for that extra 1k or do you pay up?

this happens all the time.
Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 12:50 PM (Z8j2x)
--------------------------
I pay.

____________

I have gotten into disputes with the IRS that extended several years, and I was 100% in the right and a 12 year old could have figured it out. I overpaid the taxes one year by a large amount and had the balance applied to the following year. They said I didn't. Eventually they agreed I did.

Point is, if there's a dispute with the IRS and you know you're right, don't just immediately pay up and don't hire a lawyer.

Now if you know you're in the wrong on say a questionable write off, yeah, I'd pay the thousand bucks and move on. Just explaining your case to a lawyer will likely exceed that.

Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 01:00 PM (uc45P)

155 137: Session spoke up defending the FBI. Priorities.

Anyway, the police who saw the kid 30+ times are no heroes here, either. I'd like to see the calls they received about this killer.

As for the killer and the homicidal types like him, did the mental health people know and did they follow their duty to warn?
I am convinced that these "disorders" should become "reportable diseases" despite their lack of transmissibility. HIPPA should not be a shield for potential criminals

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 01:00 PM (5gaNQ)

156 anyway, i guess my fear, is seeing how justice is unequally served, and how law can seemingly bend for those better.

i mean it's been pretty overt.

cops stand by while people are beaten for being on the wrong team.

cops arrest for being on the wrong team

i had wondered often about blood libeling, camp roundups in such an educated metropolitan at that time society, (germany)

or gulags in russia.

1st you must make your victim abhorrent. Then everything is good. If you are on the wrong side You have no rights, and They have all the rights they can persuade others to agree with.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 01:01 PM (Z8j2x)

157 Yeah,it's it's all fun and games until someone gets their head sawed off...

Posted by: steevy at February 18, 2018 01:01 PM (LiyEm)

158 If every individual charged in any fashion were to request a jury of their peers, it would bog down the system to such a degree that it would become impossible to process every crime.
Posted by: Malcolm Tent

__________

I still don't think that justifies tactics like lying to suspects in order to manipulate a confession.

Also, maybe that means we have too many laws and too many cops if they can't process all the crime.

Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 01:02 PM (uc45P)

159 145. Yes. The Melian Dialogue has that great Bronze Age line that is still true: 'The strong do as they wish, the weak suffer what they must.'
An aristocrat or a royal is from an old line of bandits whose ancestors were especially effective.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at February 18, 2018 01:03 PM (fA1SL)

160 The gun grabbers I know don't know what state Lexington and Concord are in.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at February 18, 2018 01:03 PM (89T5c)

161 Why do cases take so long to come to trial if like 95% of criminals plead?

Posted by: steevy at February 18, 2018 01:03 PM (LiyEm)

162 Take a plea deal I meant.

Posted by: steevy at February 18, 2018 01:04 PM (LiyEm)

163 The Left will be very careful and selective about enforcing gun bans. They know they can't actually seize the guns just yet. (Exhibit #1: the refusal of citizens of deep blue CT to surrender their "assault rifles" after Sandy Hook.)

What they want now is to establish the 'right' of the State to seize weapons, to show that your right to bear arms comes from Caesar, not God.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 18, 2018 01:04 PM (0jtPF)

164 I recuse!

Posted by: MAGA at February 18, 2018 01:04 PM (LnOh3)

165 143 if you are in an tax argument with the irs.
they say you owe this, i say wht i do not, they say pay up, you have no money..
do you hire an atty for that extra 1k or do you pay up?

this happens all the time.

Posted by: willow

Same thing happens with eminent domain, all the time. The 2007 mass condemnations in Texas for the border fence were a huge clusterfuck, partly because congress mandated a quick deadline. The poorer landowners mostly didn't hire lawyers to get fair value, but those who made the gamble and hired lawyers fared much better.

Usually in mass condemnation events the gov sets up a commission so the people without lawyers can all get similar deals, but with the short line they didn't do it this time.

Posted by: stace at February 18, 2018 01:04 PM (6HFDU)

166 I'm honestly glad though the Left is finally honest about their intentions with gun control. Confiscation.

It's much harder to argue against things like magazine sizes and national databases than it is someone going house to house and forcibly taking your guns.

Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 01:05 PM (uc45P)

167 stace , right.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2018 01:05 PM (Z8j2x)

168 The best way to gain an advantage over the cops is to release your dog's leash just before you make your move.

Blam! Blam! Blam!

Posted by: Fritz at February 18, 2018 01:06 PM (bJ0w+)

169 GOP Rep Rooney: I'll Do Something on Gun Control, But 'Not Necessarily for Normal People' -- 'Some Freedoms' Will Be Lost -BB

Because the GOP stands up for us and the Constitution.

Posted by: Under Fire at February 18, 2018 01:06 PM (r9UYA)

170 You have the right to remain silent, the Miranda Warning. This is read to you prior to arrest. You can also request an attorney for questioning. Traffic stops are a different category if were talkin only a possible citation, no conversation is actually necessary, besides one may end up with no citation and maybe just a warning.

Why lie? Once you begin there, you already gave up the right to remain silent which now could also be used against you, plus it becomes a real problem for you and your required attorney explaining that lie.

Also if your poor you retain the right to have an representation/attorney, poor does not mean you cant remain silent. Not every law enforcement personnel are out to get you. Police are enforcing the laws already written and who writes those laws? Some may not be cut out for the work which can be problematic like any industry who employes. Caution is necessary were talking about someone's freedom. Logic in this matter does not make one a jock sniffer either.

Posted by: Luann at February 18, 2018 01:06 PM (7ZiDC)

171
Yeah,it's it's all fun and games until someone gets their head ~~sawed~~ blown off...

Yet I persisted.

Posted by: Roland The Headless Thompson Gunner at February 18, 2018 01:07 PM (EzdLW)

172 Law Prof explains with humor all the reasons why you Don't Talk to the Police: https://tinyurl.com/ya4duywt

Posted by: smilin jack at February 18, 2018 01:07 PM (zMj9Z)

173 Problem with government is when things get made federal. Then there's virtually no accountability. There are so many agencies that should be scaled down or eliminated.

I suppose there are aspects of LE that should be federal, but the FBI has proven itself a failed bureaucracy. The DOJ OIG report will be a revelation. Did the IG get any co-operation from the supposed Good Cops at the FBI?

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 18, 2018 01:07 PM (pV/54)

174 Why do cases take so long to come to trial if like 95% of criminals plead?

Posted by: steevy
*****************

Principal tactic of defense lawyers: postpone, postpone, postpone. Postpone long enough and witnesses move on, evidence deteriorates, new judges, different prosecutors, etc.

Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 01:08 PM (g4YTo)

175 I still don't think that justifies tactics like lying to suspects in order to manipulate a confession.

Also, maybe that means we have too many laws and too many cops if they can't process all the crime.

........

Agree 100%.

My comment really wasn't intended to defend the process of coercing plea deals, merely to discuss how central it is to the entire legal scheme.

If every individual demanded a jury trial for speeding, the state would eventually stop issuing speeding citations, as the manpower, costs and time required to adjudicate all speeding tickets would exceed the revenue produced by them.

People have the power to break the corrupt system, but it's a bit like Orwell noted that you'll never organize enough people en masse the break it because they are all too busy playing the lottery, drinking and cavorting.

Posted by: Malcolm Tent at February 18, 2018 01:10 PM (9iymH)

176 169 GOP Rep Rooney: I'll Do Something on Gun Control, But 'Not Necessarily for Normal People' -- 'Some Freedoms' Will Be Lost -BB

Because the GOP stands up for us and the Constitution.
Posted by: Under Fire at February 18, 2018 01:06 PM (r9UYA)

As I said earlier, at what point does it become a question of "use them or lose them"?

Because I think we are rapidly approaching that point.

Posted by: rickl at February 18, 2018 01:11 PM (sdi6R)

177 Oh hell yeah there are too many laws! Every year new laws appear it's insane with all the layering, who keeps writing those laws?

Posted by: Luann at February 18, 2018 01:11 PM (7ZiDC)

178 The antidote to being criminally charged with lying to the authorities is to not talk to the authorities - 5th amendment, or if you are "just" a witness, decline their invite. If they don't have probable cause, you are free to go.
(Things I've learned from watching forensic files.)

Posted by: LASue at February 18, 2018 01:11 PM (hZ+us)

179 The states need to be the brake on the out-of-control Judiciary via enforcement of the 10th Amendment

Posted by: Neil DeGrasshole Tyson's Chicken at February 18, 2018 01:12 PM (rpnTL)

180 Kinks front-man Ray Davies got shot and nearly died in New Orleans during a robbery when the gunman got too aggressive with Ray's GF and Ray acted up.

The defense lawyer got key hearings scheduled for when he knew The Kinks were on tour, and the perp walked free.

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 18, 2018 01:12 PM (pV/54)

181 POP QUIZ

If questioned by the police without your attorney present, you should:

A) [ ] talk to the cops

2) [ ] not talk to the cops

Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 01:12 PM (Sfs6o)

182 The problem with lying is that if you ARE prosecuted, the fact that you lied to the police invites the conclusion that you have something to hide, and further, nothing you say is worthy of belief without hard proof.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:13 PM (W62qG)

183 181 POP QUIZ

If questioned by the police without your attorney present, you should:

A) [ ] talk to the cops

2) [ ] not talk to the cops

2a) Tell the cop you fucked his wife last night

Posted by: Under Fire at February 18, 2018 01:14 PM (r9UYA)

184 Here's what I'm talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:14 PM (W62qG)

185 You should always talk to the police, because by talking to them you can remove yourself from consideration as a suspect!

Oh wait.....that is 100% incorrect.

Posted by: Malcolm Tent at February 18, 2018 01:14 PM (9iymH)

186 174 Why do cases take so long to come to trial if like 95% of criminals plead?
Posted by: steevy
*****************
Principal tactic of defense lawyers: postpone, postpone, postpone. Postpone long enough and witnesses move on, evidence deteriorates, new judges, different prosecutors, etc.

And I guarantee, Judges aid and abet at all levels. Reason being that all Judges are overloaded with cases and have packed schedules, so they jump at the chance to postpone any part of it, no matter the cause. And both sets of lawyers benefit from the postponement, if it's a private case all the lawyers make more fees the longer it goes, and in the case of a prosecution, it's job security for the prosecutor who has to stay on til the case is through.

and that's how Our Legal System Works.

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 18, 2018 01:14 PM (V2Yro)

187 151---The legendary slippery slope. If our LE peeps don't follow the rules, why should we? Someone is dirty, tiresome, nasty, whatever, but cops don't have a case. Is it okay for them to invent one because the target is a 'usual suspect'?

Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 12:59 PM (MIKMs)
------------------------------
Oh, for carp's sake. They ARE following the rules.
Who said anything about their not having a case or "inventing" one?

They plead down to save time and money. This is especially true in high crime areas. You simply can't have all, or even most, of the offenders going to trial.
And a decent lawyer will exploit that on behalf of the thugs.

The thug, of course, can insist on a trial. But if there is a good case against him, and there usually IS, he risks doing time for the actual crime instead of a lesser offense.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 18, 2018 01:15 PM (0jtPF)

188 The problem with lying is that if you ARE
prosecuted, the fact that you lied to the police invites the conclusion
that you have something to hide,,,"

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:13 PM (W62qG)

I think the larger point is that the people should not be prosecuted for the mere fact of lying. It should not be a crime.

I will never lie to the police because I will never talk to them, but that is a different issue.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 18, 2018 01:15 PM (wYseH)

189 The problem with lying is that if you ARE prosecuted, the fact that you lied to the police invites the conclusion that you have something to hide, and further, nothing you say is worthy of belief without hard proof.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara

________

Shouldn't we come to the same conclusion when Law Enforcement lies?

I mean if they'll lie to a suspect to get what they want, why wouldn't they lie on the witness stand under oath?

Either both can do it or both can't do it.

Also, I genuinely think law enforcement does questioning in order to get someone to lie so they can leverage them. See Flynn for an example.

Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 01:16 PM (uc45P)

190 I think the larger point is that the people should not be prosecuted for the mere fact of lying. It should not be a crime.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 18, 2018 01:15 PM (wYseH)

That is the larger point, but I think in general is moot, except in these particular cases, i.e., political prosecutions.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:18 PM (W62qG)

191 181

Weasel, if you do have an attorney your attorney speaks for you correct? If not choose your right to remain silent until your represented by an attorney across all lines of law enforcement questioning. Its your right, I know of people who are advised and they then ignore that advice, foolish but its their choice. Miranda Rights.

Posted by: Luann at February 18, 2018 01:19 PM (7ZiDC)

192 176
As I said earlier, at what point does it become a question of "use them or lose them"?

Because I think we are rapidly approaching that point.

-------
I believe we are on the edge of a national insurrection if one more constraint is put on the 2A. Gun owners are fed up nationwide.

Posted by: Under Fire at February 18, 2018 01:19 PM (r9UYA)

193 And another thing - U.S. Border Customs agents are the biggest dicks on the planet. Complete and total assholes.

Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 01:19 PM (Sfs6o)

194 189. Although, in the Flynn case, I'd not be surprised to learn that the claim of his lying was itself a lie, based on who questioned him and the fact that there exists no record of the supposed 'lie' other than Strzok's.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at February 18, 2018 01:19 PM (fA1SL)

195 173 Problem with government is when things get made federal. Then there's virtually no accountability.....
Posted by: Ignoramus at February 18, 2018 01:07 PM (pV/54)
-------------------------
That's our biggest problem in a nutshell --- on all fronts and in all respects.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 18, 2018 01:19 PM (0jtPF)

196 Just heard Joe Biden is keeping his option open for 2020.

We should be so lucky but WTF? Old-white-cis-male will get the Dem nomination? Is he delusional?

His options for the future are:

1. Play with the grand-kids
2. Assisted living for old Dems (I think the Clinton Foundation is being re-tasked for this purpose.
2. Grim reaper

Posted by: Ripley at February 18, 2018 01:19 PM (MxEKc)

197
The thug, of course, can insist on a trial. But if there is a good
case against him, and there usually IS, he risks doing time for the
actual crime instead of a lesser offense.
=====

No. See a lot of high-profile cases where the LE and DA peeps actually lie and cheat. My introduction to that was the Nicarico trials many years ago. Oh these mopes must be guilty of something.

Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 01:19 PM (MIKMs)

198 Also, I genuinely think law enforcement does questioning in order to get someone to lie so they can leverage them. See Flynn for an example.

Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 01:16 PM (uc45P)

Come on, that would never happen in THIS country!

Posted by: M Stewart & S Libby at February 18, 2018 01:20 PM (gwPgz)

199 How is lying to a suspect to elicit a confession not entrapment?

Posted by: EW at February 18, 2018 01:20 PM (Lex5H)

200 And another thing - U.S. Border Customs agents are the biggest dicks on the planet. Complete and total assholes.
Posted by: Weasel
----
Drawn from the pool of former license bureau clerks no doubt.

Posted by: Tonypete at February 18, 2018 01:20 PM (tr2D7)

201 I've had interesting talks with the just-out-of-college Igno-Daughter. Last night the Florida shooting came up and she said that assault rifles needed to banned. I said they're nothing more than a second-rate hunting rifle that just look badass. That when I went to shoot up a kindergarten I'd just use a pair of Glocks. Much more effective and concealable.

But you ignoramus, we have to do something!

I said that the background check system is a bit of a joke, and not very effective. One glaring loophole is that mental health professionals can't enter information unless the subject has been involuntarily committed. If we had had a system where Cruz could have been flagged as a nutjob, it might have made a difference.

Making this change involves a policy choice about personal privacy and other things. Mental health professionals lean left and don't want it.

But until it's put on the table for consideration -- and instead the blame is put on scary-looking AR-15s, it tells me you're not serious.

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 18, 2018 01:21 PM (pV/54)

202 191 181

Weasel, if you do have an attorney your attorney speaks for you correct? If not choose your right to remain silent until your represented by an attorney across all lines of law enforcement questioning. Its your right, I know of people who are advised and they then ignore that advice, foolish but its their choice. Miranda Rights.
Posted by: Luann at February 18, 2018 01:19 PM (7ZiDC)
--------
Correct. Get an attorney first and do what they say. You will likely have to answer questions at some point, but never answer questions without your attorney present. At this point the,cops are not your friends. If you cannot afford an attorney, say so.

Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 01:21 PM (Sfs6o)

203 Shouldn't we come to the same conclusion when Law Enforcement lies?

I mean if they'll lie to a suspect to get what they want, why wouldn't they lie on the witness stand under oath?

Either both can do it or both can't do it.

Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 01:16 PM (uc45P)

The logic here is the presumption that you can't trick an innocent person into giving up incriminating details that he wouldn't know unless he were guilty.

Police lying in their testimony is another story entirely, as the target then is not getting the suspect to reveal incriminating information, but rather to deceive the court and the jury and thereby to pervert the justice process.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:22 PM (W62qG)

204 Sorry I meant "voluntarily committed" which rarely happens.

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 18, 2018 01:23 PM (pV/54)

205 It is still mind boggling that no crime is committed yet you can be arrested for covering up that no crime committed. The genius who thought that up had to be a totalitarian

Posted by: Skip at February 18, 2018 01:23 PM (aC6Sd)

206 Although, in the Flynn case, I'd not be surprised to learn that the claim of his lying was itself a lie, based on who questioned him and the fact that there exists no record of the supposed 'lie' other than Strzok's.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at February 18, 2018 01:19 PM (fA1SL)

Am I the only one that finds it very convenient (for teh FBI) to depend on written post-interview complied notes rather than audio/video tapes of the actual interviews. It's not like there are no tech savvy fibbies!

Posted by: M Stewart & S Libby at February 18, 2018 01:23 PM (gwPgz)

207 I just wish I could fart blanks rather than loaded ones.

Posted by: R. DUKE at February 18, 2018 01:23 PM (O2LSH)

208 201: If someone is involuntarily committed, the courts already know. They've seen the documents on which the commitment was based, including specific threats, "voices telling me to hurt others", etc. It's the local police that need to know.

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 01:24 PM (5gaNQ)

209 Correct. Get an attorney first and do what they say. You will likely have to answer questions at some point, but never answer questions without your attorney present. At this point the,cops are not your friends. If you cannot afford an attorney, say so.
Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 01:21 PM (Sfs6o)

For an eloquent exposition of this, watch the video I linked above, and the sequel to it, in which a police officer (who is law student of the first speaker) recounts his experience.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:24 PM (W62qG)

210 I'm hoping I live to see the day when the Second Amendment as written, as intended is enforced nationally with the same vigour that the "constitutional right" to homosexual marriage has been...

Posted by: Zettai Roshia-no Botto at February 18, 2018 01:26 PM (e9G8E)

211 In regard to the Florida shooting, what isn't being talked about a lot is the fact that the police were called to the shooters home multiple times (as high as 39 according to some reports) for domestic violence. If any cop had taken the time to file a report on this person, he would never have been eligible to obtain a weapon due to the domestic violence on his record. Guns are not the issue, lazy cops who hate paperwork on juveniles is the problem.

Posted by: lightning at February 18, 2018 01:26 PM (saZHw)

212 Drawn from the pool of former license bureau clerks no doubt.
Posted by: Tonypete at February 18, 2018 01:20 PM (tr2D7)
-----
Drawn from a pool of assholes. Their man tactic seems to be trying to rattle you and get you to make some sort of contradictory statement. I politely answer with simple yes/no responses.

Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 01:26 PM (Sfs6o)

213 And another thing - U.S. Border Customs agents are the biggest dicks on the planet. Complete and total assholes.
Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 01:19 PM (Sfs6o)

Stupid, too. I almost missed a connecting flight because the agent was so ignorant about a canned food product I stupidly told him I had in my suitcase. Lesson learned was to never volunteer information.

Posted by: stace at February 18, 2018 01:27 PM (6HFDU)

214 Lying on the witness stand will cause officers to be fired and charged, that tactic is in the past any officer with any common sense better be extra careful there, test a lie. Yes, its a reality this isn't the 60's anymore. One should never play with another's freedom, ever!

Posted by: Luann at February 18, 2018 01:27 PM (7ZiDC)

215 199 How is lying to a suspect to elicit a confession not entrapment?
Posted by: EW at February 18, 2018 01:20 PM (Lex5H)

The way it's supposed to work is that the interrogator elicits not just a confession, but also details that would only be known to the perpetrator.

And it's entrapment at all. Entrapment is a LEO soliciting or encouraging a subject to commit a crime that but for the LEO's involvement he would not have committed. Totally different.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:27 PM (W62qG)

216 197---No. See a lot of high-profile cases where the LE and DA peeps actually lie and cheat. My introduction to that was the Nicarico trials many years ago. Oh these mopes must be guilty of something.
Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 01:19 PM (MIKMs)
----------------------------
Sure, it happens. But I note you say "high-profile cases." That's when lying and cheating is most likely to occur --- for PR/political reasons.

But the vast majority of crimes are run-of-the-mill.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 18, 2018 01:27 PM (0jtPF)

217 And another thing - U.S. Border Customs agents are the biggest dicks on the planet. Complete and total assholes.

Posted by: Weasel
*****************

You must prove your innocence every time at all points of entry.

Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 01:27 PM (g4YTo)

218 204: People voluntarily commit themselves every day. This gives the patient the ability to refuse medication. Dangerous people are frequently committed even if they sign themselves in, staff doesn't like getting threatened and injured.

Most non-lib professionals would LOVE to be able to report threatening individuals.

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 01:28 PM (5gaNQ)

219 NOT entrapment

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:28 PM (W62qG)

220 Strangely enough, I find myself mostly agreeing with #BLM on a big portion of their platform, that being that LE is given too much power and often use excessive enforcement for the crime being alleged.

Where I differ from their cause is that I disagree that the root cause is racism and that you can not combat the problem by burning down cities or tearing down Confederate memorials.

Posted by: Malcolm Tent at February 18, 2018 01:28 PM (9iymH)

221 But the vast majority of crimes are run-of-the-mill.
=====

So nobody will notice if LE cuts a few corners here and there.

Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 01:29 PM (MIKMs)

222 Joe Biden is a joke and it seems laughable that he has ANY options to "keep open" for 2020. But he could have beat Trump in 2016. But he wasn't allowed to run because of vagina + glass ceilings or something, so we can at least thank Hillary for that.....

Posted by: JoeF. at February 18, 2018 01:29 PM (7uYFy)

223 And another thing - U.S. Border Customs agents are the biggest dicks on the planet. Complete and total assholes.

Posted by: Weasel

I want some names.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at February 18, 2018 01:30 PM (7uYFy)

224 A few bloggers think Gen Flynn is going to be free soon as the judge got pulled off the case by a higher judge. And that that reason is partially the reason for charging a bunch of Russian trolls in a case that will never see a day in court.

Posted by: Skip at February 18, 2018 01:31 PM (aC6Sd)

225 I've heard it ad infinitum that disturbed individuals shouldn't be able to purchase guns. Ok, what does "disturbed" mean and who gets to define it? Yeah, no way that gets abused.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 01:31 PM (gC2IV)

226 Yanno, I gotta admit and perhaps this is my naivety, but, I feel it's weird to lie/say nothing at all to the police if you've done nothing wrong.

However what was quoted in the original post about LE being able to deceive us does make a valid point about why we can't do it to them.

I've had very few run-ins with cops, but the ones I have had have been all professional with everyone going home happy.

Can you believe it? Me, a halfrican, didn't get lit up by a bunch of bloodthirsty racist cops.

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at February 18, 2018 01:32 PM (dh+zl)

227 Sure, it happens. But I note you say "high-profile cases." That's when lying and cheating is most likely to occur --- for PR/political reasons.

But the vast majority of crimes are run-of-the-mill.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 18, 2018 01:27 PM (0jtPF)
****************

And lying and cheating is a daily matter of course.

Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 01:32 PM (g4YTo)

228 I think we need to distinguish between theory and practice.

Sure, in practice, LEOs and prosecutors sometimes cheat,* being human, but that does not provide a rationale for changing the theory underlying the process.

*I suspect most commonly in the highly emotive cases, e.g., child murders, etc., where they are utterly convinced they have the right guy, and can't bear the thought of him walking. Not an excuse for doing so, but puts the phenomenon in context.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:32 PM (W62qG)

229 Yeah, no way that gets abused.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 01:31 PM (gC2IV)

Respect mah authoritay!

Posted by: SJW Hrothgar at February 18, 2018 01:32 PM (gwPgz)

230 225: It looks pretty vague. But with tightening, I think we could sanely exclude most psychotic disorders

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 01:33 PM (5gaNQ)

231 211 In regard to the Florida shooting, what isn't being talked about a lot is the fact that the police were called to the shooters home multiple times (as high as 39 according to some reports) for domestic violence. If any cop had taken the time to file a report on this person, he would never have been eligible to obtain a weapon due to the domestic violence on his record. Guns are not the issue, lazy cops who hate paperwork on juveniles is the problem.
Posted by: lightning at February 18, 2018 01:26 PM (saZHw)
---------------------------------
BINGO.
The super-leniency of the legal system can hurt us just as often as it's 'oppression.'
This is true whether it's cause by laziness, over-work, or SJWs sniffling about the poor little kid who will be hurt by a police record.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 18, 2018 01:33 PM (0jtPF)

232 https://pirateswithoutborders.com

An amusing site with some rather strong arguments for liberty.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at February 18, 2018 01:33 PM (fA1SL)

233 Ok, what does "disturbed" mean and who gets to define it?

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 18, 2018 01:31 PM (gC2IV)

"How many comments did Mr. Lowell make on a notorious Al-Right blog?"

"562 in one week. Your honor, I rest my case for permanent revocation of his 2nd Amendment rights."

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 18, 2018 01:34 PM (wYseH)

234 And it's entrapment at all. Entrapment is a LEO soliciting or
encouraging a subject to commit a crime that but for the LEO's
involvement he would not have committed. Totally different.
=====

LEOs handing out fake IDs to kids who are in trouble and directing them to go to businesses to attempt buying liquor or cigarettes. If the kids do it, they won't be in further trouble -- parents jump on that one to keep the kids out of the whole 'having a record' mess. Gaaaah, at least our old Police Chief did not do that. New one, I'm not so sure.

Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 01:34 PM (MIKMs)

235 OT: So Fox babe Holly Sonders is down at Ft. Campbell for a Daytona 500 party on the base. I only mention it because she's hot. The poor Army officer she was interviewing was a bit flustered with her. Won't be able to watch the whole race because gotta go to work later today.

Posted by: Puddleglum at February 18, 2018 01:34 PM (MOMdR)

236 I've had very few run-ins with cops, but the ones I have had have been all professional with everyone going home happy.

Can you believe it? Me, a halfrican, didn't get lit up by a bunch of bloodthirsty racist cops.
Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at February 18, 2018 01:32 PM (dh+zl)

That's comforting to hear, actually. Politeness goes a long way. Unfortunately, so does running the mouth, albeit a long way in the opposite direction. And grabbing for a cop's gun, goes a VERY long way in the opposite direction.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:34 PM (W62qG)

237 And another thing - U.S. Border Customs agents are the biggest dicks on the planet. Complete and total assholes.
Posted by: Weasel

no. they are not. would you do their job 24/7?

i travel thru the us/cnd border weekly and they are professional, treat me respectfully and treat their position to protect America with pride.

do not speak of what you do not know personally.

Posted by: john done at February 18, 2018 01:35 PM (fWdPl)

238 Got really pissed at local police who were trying to bust one of my daughter's friends for something they had no actual evidence that he did. Cops implied to the young man that Mr. BTEG had called in a tip, which was totally untrue.

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at February 18, 2018 01:35 PM (2PqgG)

239 I'm fine with lying to law enforcement being a crime. It's a problem that's easily avoided: don't talk to law enforcement; get a lawyer, because if law enforcement insists on speaking to you, you need one.

Posted by: Bear with Assyemtrical Balls at February 18, 2018 01:36 PM (H5knJ)

240 A convention of states.

^^^This. This right here. Write your State Legislator. I already talked to mine.

Posted by: Hawkpilot at February 18, 2018 01:36 PM (fqHZs)

241

do not speak of what you do not know personally.
Posted by: john done at February 18, 2018 01:35 PM (fWdPl
---------
I have personally had precisely the opposite experience as yours, on multiple occasions.

Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 01:37 PM (Sfs6o)

242 CN, Breitbart published some quotes from Sessions ordering a review of the FBI's failure.

how is that defending them?

Posted by: booknlass at February 18, 2018 01:37 PM (bjSMX)

243 LEOs handing out fake IDs to kids who are in trouble and directing them to go to businesses to attempt buying liquor or cigarettes. If the kids do it, they won't be in further trouble -- parents jump on that one to keep the kids out of the whole 'having a record' mess. Gaaaah, at least our old Police Chief did not do that. New one, I'm not so sure.
Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 01:34 PM (MIKMs)

How is that different from having a police decoy acting like a hooker?

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:37 PM (W62qG)

244 Making this change involves a policy choice about personal privacy and other things. Mental health professionals lean left and don't want it.

But until it's put on the table for consideration -- and instead the blame is put on scary-looking AR-15s, it tells me you're not serious.

Posted by: Ignoramus
*******************

The problem having mental health professionals qualify you is that they are an unstable lot.

Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 01:37 PM (g4YTo)

245 The angst of the Parkland students is all over MSM to the point it's a kind of pornography.

But the kids have a real point. They all knew Nikolas Cruz was a clear and present danger and had been for a long time. It was a school meme that he'd become a shooter, and when the shooting started they all knew it was Cruz.

It could have, and should have, been prevented.

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 18, 2018 01:37 PM (pV/54)

246 Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:34 PM (W62qG)

The video you posted about "Don't Talk to the Cops" - I haven't listened to it yet - just seems.......like you're asking for trouble. Human nature dictates that if someone isn't speaking to you tensions will rise especially in a situation dealing with cops stopping someone.

Now if you're hauled in for questioning, even if completely innocent, it seems to me unfortunately it's in your best interest to get an attorney. Which is shitty.

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at February 18, 2018 01:37 PM (dh+zl)

247 do not speak of what you do not know personally.

Posted by: john done at February 18, 2018 01:35 PM (fWdPl)

Try JFK or Newark Liberty airports if you want a taste of the reality.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 18, 2018 01:37 PM (wYseH)

248 God luck with that. Unless you are completely off the grid, which is nearly impossible, the government knows your every move. Phone, car or just walking it is all being documented. And with so many laws being passed who the hell knows what is illegal anymore. What is the book, Five Felonies a Day?

Posted by: Reggie Lovin at February 18, 2018 01:38 PM (rdl6o)

249 The problem with these proposals to call conventions of the states & etc is this - how likely is it that such a thing would be permitted, that it would not be subverted, or that its determinations would be enacted?

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at February 18, 2018 01:38 PM (fA1SL)

250 And it does not have to be lying either. Ask Scooter Libby about a faulty memory.

Posted by: Reggie Lovin at February 18, 2018 01:39 PM (rdl6o)

251 I'll put my flame suit on, but the only gun control measure I'm open to is making the age restriction on rifles purchases the same as pistol purchases. In my state, you have to be 21 to buy a pistol. Maybe 21 to buy also buy semi automatic rifle?

It's not going to do anything about the 99.9% of shootings, but something about a high school teenager buying an AR-15 is just not going to sit well with the normies.

Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 01:39 PM (uc45P)

252 221
So nobody will notice if LE cuts a few corners here and there.
Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 01:29 PM (MIKMs)
-----------------------------
The victims notice --- like a cow-orker of mine who was stabbed 5 times by a thug who pleaded down to a minor assault charge and served 9 months in prison. She noticed.
I guess the family of the woman the thug decapitated 2 years later noticed too.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 18, 2018 01:41 PM (0jtPF)

253 I once had a cop tell me that I should have lied to him.

I was coming home from working at the bar at 3 a.m. and got lit up for a tail light out. He asked if I had been drinking and I told him I had one beer after I closed the bar.

He made me take a sobriety test and a breathalyzer. Of course I passed easily. He told me in the future, if I have had just one beer just to answer "No, I haven't been drinking" because procedure calls for a sobriety check on anyone that admits to having consumed alcohol.

Posted by: Malcolm Tent at February 18, 2018 01:42 PM (9iymH)

254 How is that different from having a police decoy acting like a hooker?
=====

I think that is almost as disgusting. Let's all break the laws to save some higher purpose. Not quite as bad as using kids to do it, but very close.

Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 01:42 PM (MIKMs)

255 The video you posted about "Don't Talk to the Cops" - I haven't listened to it yet - just seems.......like you're asking for trouble. Human nature dictates that if someone isn't speaking to you tensions will rise especially in a situation dealing with cops stopping someone.

Now if you're hauled in for questioning, even if completely innocent, it seems to me unfortunately it's in your best interest to get an attorney. Which is shitty.
Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at February 18, 2018 01:37 PM (dh+zl)

Watch the video - it is excellent.

You're right, of course, refusing to talk to the cops will doubtless raise the tension level, but here of all places politeness is key.

If you're hauled in for questioning, presumably the police already regard you as a suspect. Again, watch the video (and the following one, by the police officer who is a student of the law prof's), which goes into this scenario in detail.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:43 PM (W62qG)

256 U.S. Border Customs agents are the biggest dicks on the planet. Complete and total assholes.

i was replying to this specifically.

if you think all the men and women that protect the border are assholes, then a wall with those same people protecting it would be worthless.

Posted by: john done at February 18, 2018 01:43 PM (fWdPl)

257 Posted by: Malcolm Tent at February 18, 2018 01:42 PM (9iymH)

That must be a state by state thing. Although the question I have is; ok let's say you said no, he thinks you're boozed up, how does the rest of the interaction proceed? Does he let you go? How does he get you to take a field sobriety/breathalyzer test if you don't admit to drinking?

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at February 18, 2018 01:44 PM (dh+zl)

258 I think that is almost as disgusting. Let's all break the laws to save some higher purpose. Not quite as bad as using kids to do it, but very close.
Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 01:42 PM (MIKMs)

What law is a police decoy breaking?

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:44 PM (W62qG)

259 He made me take a sobriety test and a breathalyzer. Of course I passed easily. He told me in the future, if I have had just one beer just to answer "No, I haven't been drinking" because procedure calls for a sobriety check on anyone that admits to having consumed alcohol.
Posted by: Malcolm Tent

_________

My attorney friend did a lot of DUI cases, he said NEVER say you had a drink, even of you have. Just answer no, none.

Basically every drunk will always say a "a couple beers" and once you admit to drinking, they have a green light to give you any sort of testing.

Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 01:45 PM (uc45P)

260 Soliciting a crime.

Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 01:46 PM (MIKMs)

261 That must be a state by state thing. Although the question I have is; ok let's say you said no, he thinks you're boozed up, how does the rest of the interaction proceed? Does he let you go? How does he get you to take a field sobriety/breathalyzer test if you don't admit to drinking?
Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at February 18, 2018 01:44 PM (dh+zl)

He needs probable cause to proceed further. By admitting to drinking you just gave it to him. Otherwise, he'd have to observe weaving, slurring, or other evidence of intoxication.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:46 PM (W62qG)

262 Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:43 PM (W62qG)

I will watch when I get home, thanks.

I agree politeness is key but that will only get you so far. It's a fascinating discussion though.

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at February 18, 2018 01:46 PM (dh+zl)

263 The problem having mental health professionals qualify you is that they are an unstable lot.

=============

I wrote about this the other day. If you suffer from chronic pain eventually you will have to talk to a mental health professional. Many SSRIs have dual purposes with regard to pain management. One psychiatrist wanted me to admit to suicidal thoughts. I politely told him to fuck off. And I stress politely because you do not want to be considered aggressive because that adds a whole new layer of psychobabble.

Posted by: Reggie Lovin at February 18, 2018 01:46 PM (rdl6o)

264 256 U.S. Border Customs agents are the biggest dicks on the planet. Complete and total assholes.

i was replying to this specifically.

if you think all the men and women that protect the border are assholes, then a wall with those same people protecting it would be worthless.
Posted by: john done at February 18, 2018 01:43 PM (fWdPl)
--------
Thanks for your opinion.

Posted by: Weasel at February 18, 2018 01:46 PM (Sfs6o)

265 "Soliciting a crime."

But the cop hooker didn't have intent.

Just ask Jimmy Drama

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 18, 2018 01:46 PM (pV/54)

266 The problem with these proposals to call conventions of the states & etc is this - how likely is it that such a thing would be permitted, that it would not be subverted, or that its determinations would be enacted?

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at February 18, 2018 01:38 PM (fA1SL)
*****************

So, let's just not attempt it because we might fail?

Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 01:47 PM (g4YTo)

267 260 Soliciting a crime.
Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 01:46 PM (MIKMs)

How is standing on a street corner soliciting a crime?

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:47 PM (W62qG)

268 Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:46 PM (W62qG)

All that is circumstantial and short of someone who can't put a sentence together or serious weaving in and out of lanes it's objective.

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at February 18, 2018 01:48 PM (dh+zl)

269 However, my main concern right now is that the
courts themselves are out of control, usurping power and violating the
constitution. They need to be reined back by the other two branches.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 18, 2018 12:03 PM (39g3+)

You are out of order! *bangs gavel*

Posted by: Hawiian Judge at February 18, 2018 01:49 PM (QLvwG)

270 I will watch when I get home, thanks.

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at February 18, 2018 01:46 PM (dh+zl)

I think you'll enjoy it. I did. The first speaker is highly animated, articulate, and entertaining.

Part II features an experienced police officer, a student of the first speaker, relating his experiences. He too speaks well, and with the voice of experience and authority.

Very interesting.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:50 PM (W62qG)

271 266. It's just something to keep in mind. It's a common failing of many thinkers, the assumption of self-implementing proposals. As it is, if it were to succeed, I'd expect a certain amount of vigor would be required to enact it.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at February 18, 2018 01:50 PM (fA1SL)

272 How is standing on a street corner soliciting a crime?
=====

I don't think it is.

Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 01:50 PM (MIKMs)

273 I really would like to see SCOTUS smack down the IRS though. You are guilty until proven innocent with them.
Legally so.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 18, 2018 01:51 PM (0jtPF)

274 242:I had not seen that he ordered DAG Rosenstein to conduct a "review". I had seen an article expressing his great confidence in Wray and Rosenstein (spit). Has he conducted a review of the FBI failure in the case of Mateen? An overhaul is needed and I don't think Rosenstein is the man to do it.

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 01:51 PM (5gaNQ)

275 249 The problem with these proposals to call conventions of the states & etc is this - how likely is it that such a thing would be permitted, that it would not be subverted, or that its determinations would be enacted?

Each State gets one Representative at the Convention, selected by the Legislature of the State. In. Country that had 30 States vote for Trump, I have to believe those Legislatures could select good people who wouldn't let the process be hijacked. But you are quite correct, that is the threat. I believe this is the only way short of violence to regain control of the Federal Government. And I am generally opposed to violence.

Posted by: Hawkpilot at February 18, 2018 01:51 PM (fqHZs)

276 Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 18, 2018 01:51 PM (0jtPF)

While I am thrilled with the GOP tax plan they could have did so much more which would have neutered the IRS.

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at February 18, 2018 01:52 PM (dh+zl)

277 I had not seen that he ordered DAG Rosenstein to
conduct a "review". I had seen an article expressing his great
confidence in Wray and Rosenstein (spit). Has he conducted a review of
the FBI failure in the case of Mateen? An overhaul is needed and I don't
think Rosenstein is the man to do it.

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 01:51 PM (5gaNQ)

Not an overhaul, but a keelhaul. To encourage the others.

Posted by: Count de Monet at February 18, 2018 01:53 PM (QLvwG)

278 All that is circumstantial and short of someone who can't put a sentence together or serious weaving in and out of lanes it's objective.
Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at February 18, 2018 01:48 PM (dh+zl)

Of course it is.

Still, I'd like drunk drivers off the road, too. So a balance needs to be struck. Someone coming out of a bar at 3 a.m. with a broken tail light is a wobbler, IMO, but the likelihood that that guy is lit is pretty high, so on balance having a word with him to find out whether he can put a sentence together, stand up, etc. is probably worthwhile.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:53 PM (W62qG)

279 275. As I've said - we should exhaust all normal and customary measures, so that, comes the day, no one will say we didn't do everything possible to avoid resort to extraordinary measures.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at February 18, 2018 01:53 PM (fA1SL)

280 I don't think it is.
Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 01:50 PM (MIKMs)

I agree.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:53 PM (W62qG)

281 263: Good for you. But I still think many psychotic disorders should be reportable

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 01:54 PM (5gaNQ)

282 Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:53 PM (W62qG)

Agreed on all fronts. Sometimes I like to play Devils Advocate and sometimes I'm generally curious.

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at February 18, 2018 01:54 PM (dh+zl)

283 Agreed on all fronts. Sometimes I like to play Devils Advocate and sometimes I'm generally curious.
Posted by: thathalfrica

Me too!

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 01:55 PM (W62qG)

284 But I still think many psychotic disorders should be reportable

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 01:54 PM (5gaNQ)
========================

Which ones? By whom? To whom? To what end?

Posted by: grammie winger - God Loves You, Don't Be Stupid, at February 18, 2018 01:55 PM (lwiT4)

285 271 266. It's just something to keep in mind. It's a common failing of many thinkers, the assumption of self-implementing proposals. As it is, if it were to succeed, I'd expect a certain amount of vigor would be required to enact it.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at February 18, 2018 01:50 PM (fA1SL)
*****************

True. But it is a better recourse in dealing with an out of control judiciary, law enforcement, bureaucracy, and impotent congress than seeing violence or acquiescence as the next recourse.

Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 01:55 PM (g4YTo)

286 281 263: Good for you. But I still think many psychotic disorders should be reportable
Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018
. . .

And if they were, they'd immediately be weaponized. Large segments of the mental health care profession believe they can credibly diagnose Trump without ever having met him. It'd end up just like the Soviet Union. "We have to put you away for the security of the State, Comrade Lunatic."

Posted by: Bear with Assyemtrical Balls at February 18, 2018 01:57 PM (H5knJ)

287 That must be a state by state thing. Although the question I have is; ok let's say you said no, he thinks you're boozed up, how does the rest of the interaction proceed? Does he let you go? How does he get you to take a field sobriety/breathalyzer test if you don't admit to drinking?

....

I think his perspective was, if I recall correctly, that if you lie and tell them you have not been drinking they would have to have cause and reason to suspect you have.

But if you tell them you have, they have already established probable cause to investigate.

That conversation took place back in 1992. I'd say it's even better advice today than back then, with the prevalence of body cams and dash cams dispelling false claims of swerving or slurring and higher court rulings that things like expired tags or bad taillights are not probable cause DUI or search warrants.

Posted by: Malcolm Tent at February 18, 2018 01:57 PM (G0Dbd)

288 285. Of course. But let's not kid ourselves - it'll come to violence. History has very few instances where these things do not.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at February 18, 2018 01:58 PM (fA1SL)

289 Domestic Violence calls.....you need a complaint signed by the victim, the officer cant do that, thus no arrest. They were not witness. On Many calls victims refuse to cooperate. Calls can also end up with the victim fighting the police too calls can go south real fast. Often the offender is gone prior to police appearing, heavy volume of those calls.

Hippa created many problems in medical notes/privacy, etc.

Posted by: Luann at February 18, 2018 02:00 PM (7ZiDC)

290 If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.
/James Madison- Federalist #51

Posted by: Muldoon at February 18, 2018 02:02 PM (wPiJc)

291 It amazes me that the same people who support gun rights to the Nth degree, who do not want their freedoms infringed upon because of basic rights, who do not want to surrender their rights to the state "Because if it saves just one child....."

are completely okay with stripping rights from individuals who deal with mental illness.

But - you say - mental illness contributes to violence. So we throw millions of people under the bus, because of some kid in Florida?

I support the 2nd Amendment. I also support the government not throwing you in a locked cell because someone reports you as "a little off."

Or worse yet, the government itself decides "you're a little off."

Posted by: grammie winger - God Loves You, Don't Be Stupid, at February 18, 2018 02:02 PM (lwiT4)

292 Don't know the exact but wasn't the due process that ended a law keeping 'mentality ill' from getting fire arms recently?

Posted by: Skip at February 18, 2018 02:03 PM (aC6Sd)

293 DUI smell on breath, eyes, focus are all written in the laws, blow or dont still a state charge, etc. Cameras dont pick up scent of alcohol.

Posted by: Luann at February 18, 2018 02:03 PM (7ZiDC)

294 Agreed on all fronts. Sometimes I like to play Devils Advocate and sometimes I'm generally curious.
Posted by: thathalfrica

Devil's Advocate is an important - no, a crucial - role. It's easy to convince yourself of one point of view until and unless you force yourself (or someone else does) to consider the contrary viewpoint.

In this context, it is fascinating that we've been talking about why the cops didn't DO something about Cruz,* and that iffy people should be bagged.

*Short answer: they were hamstrung, or thought that they were, by the law.

Now we're talking about hamstringing LEOs further.

So it's important to have people play the devil's advocate to reconcile these disparate perspectives.

Bear in mind that any rule/policy needs to apply generally, and cannot be applied only to specific cases.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 02:04 PM (W62qG)

295 Which ones?

Posted by: grammie winger - God Loves You, Don't Be Stupid, at February 18, 2018 01:55 PM (lwiT4)

All but mine.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 18, 2018 02:04 PM (wYseH)

296 There is not one person on this earth that does not have a mental problem.

Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 02:04 PM (g4YTo)

297 : Good for you. But I still think many psychotic disorders should be reportable
Posted by: CN
------------------

This is about me, isn't it?

Posted by: Maxine Waters at February 18, 2018 02:04 PM (y3sT9)

298 284: The commitment courts should report those with homicidal intent to the police. And the "duty to warn" should include more non-specific threats to hurt/kill others (this is a state by state thing).

A paranoid schizophrenic who believes that the neighbors' all want to kill him and that he needs weapons should not get them, for example.

A medication non-adherent bipolar who believes that her mom is destroying her ability to become the next Taylor Swift, and that mom will control this unless she is destroyed should not be able to buy a weapon.

A man who has intrusive thoughts and poor sleep due to the loss of a child (reactive psychosis), should be given treatment and no report should be made. That will pass and is no cause for community concern.

All three are psychotic.

I do not believe schizophrenic patients need guns, or machetes, or he switch blades we routinely confiscate on admission

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 02:05 PM (5gaNQ)

299 Love him or hate him, PDT's tweet 5 hours ago about the Russians laughing their asses off is so true. By the way I love our President.

Posted by: never enough caffeine at February 18, 2018 02:06 PM (N3JsI)

300
DUI smell on breath, eyes, focus are all written in the laws, blow or
dont still a state charge, etc. Cameras dont pick up scent of alcohol.
=====

From my admittedly fuzzy understanding, DUI charges in some states are mandatory if you refuse testing. Automatic license suspension. It is a privilege to drive, not a right.

By heaven I swear that whatever rights I have will be defended and not allow them to become a privilege.

Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 02:07 PM (MIKMs)

301 296 There is not one person on this earth that does not have a mental problem.
Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 02:04 PM (g4YTo)

There are mental problems and then there are mental problems. There are claustrophobics and then are raving paranoid schizophrenics.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 02:07 PM (W62qG)

302 201 I've had interesting talks with the just-out-of-college Igno-Daughter. Last night the Florida shooting came up and she said that assault rifles needed to banned. I said they're nothing more than a second-rate hunting rifle that just look badass. That when I went to shoot up a kindergarten I'd just use a pair of Glocks. Much more effective and concealable.

But you ignoramus, we have to do something!
***

And NRA is teh evillll!

Everyone forgets that our worst school shooting, Virginia Tech, was carried out with two handguns.

Banning ARs would do nothing but allow venal politicians to pat themselves on the back for "solving" the problem, while ignoring real solutions like hardening school infrastructure, having armed good guys and gals on campus, and, where possible, doing something about these known psychos before they strike.

And may I also add that John Kasich was on CNN this AM yammering away about gun control, and he may possibly be the most annoying creature in this sector of the galaxy.

Posted by: stace at February 18, 2018 02:07 PM (6HFDU)

303 There is not one person on this earth that does not have a mental problem.
Posted by: gNewt
--------------------

I can prove that isn't true, by geometric logic.

Posted by: Cpt. Queeg at February 18, 2018 02:08 PM (y3sT9)

304 After watching Meuller go after Flynn like a pit bull after a cat I have no faith in our judicial system. In future my only response shall be, I doono, don't know, can't recall, not to the best of my recollection. We could all end up being persecuted like Flynn thanks to Obama corrupting the judicial system, and of course a shout out to the corrupt slime sucking pigs at the DOJ and FBI.

Posted by: Rose at February 18, 2018 02:08 PM (30UCB)

305 This is about me, isn't it?
Posted by: Maxine Waters at February 18, 2018 02:04 PM (y3sT9)

No. Relax. Mental retardation is not reportable.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 02:09 PM (W62qG)

306 It isn't just that they can lie to you and you can't lie to them, that is bad enough. The whole FBI 302s being the record of your "lying" takes it to another level. This has been ripe for abuse forever.

The fallout of the Flynn case, the "Russian collusion," the FISA warrant, may be the official judicial finding that the FBI lies under oath and falsifies its written documents of interviews. That would open up all cases going back years to being retried with any testimony by FBI agents being thrown out unless it is backed up by recording or physical evidence that is definitely determined to not be faulty too. As per this post from a week ago.

http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=373818

As always don't comment there.

Posted by: geoffb at February 18, 2018 02:09 PM (zOpu5)

307 And may I also add that John Kasich was on CNN this AM yammering away about gun control, and he may possibly be the most annoying creature in this sector of the galaxy.
Posted by: stace
-----

Sixty years of collecting stamps might have that effect on anyone.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at February 18, 2018 02:09 PM (9tO1t)

308 http://bit.ly/2FfLZso
--------
Keith Ellison Slams Mainstream Media For Reporting On Him Meeting With Famous Muslim Supremacist

Posted by: DeploraBOT at February 18, 2018 02:10 PM (y3aQB)

309 From my admittedly fuzzy understanding

Uh oh. Get the breathalyzer!

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 02:10 PM (W62qG)

310 However, my main concern right now is that the
courts themselves are out of control, usurping power and violating the
constitution. They need to be reined back by the other two branches.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 18, 2018 12:03 PM (39g3+)

Who enforces their over-reach ? Who is it that makes their edicts ... nothing more than empty words ... become an absolute expression of force ?

Folks ... you bring this shit upon yourselves.

Third Time I'll ask the Question ... nobody wants to answer ... Why Do You Mistrust the State yet Absolutely Fucking Revere those who make the State's Power Manifest ?

No Foreign Power foists this corrupted bullshit upon you. Hell ... your political opponents don't.

You do it to yourselves. You insist upon it.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 18, 2018 02:10 PM (fiGNd)

311 301: Thanks. Phobias are an example of something nobody would bother to report and is trichotillomania and most other forms of mental illness.

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 02:10 PM (5gaNQ)

312 DUI is a law of statistical analysis.

You are being arrested because you are statistically more likely to have an accident.

That is pretty messed up, IMO.

Posted by: Malcolm Tent at February 18, 2018 02:10 PM (G0Dbd)

313 Or worse yet, the government itself decides "you're a little off."

Posted by: grammie winger - God Loves You, Don't Be Stupid, at February 18, 2018 02:02 PM

Agreed, Grammy. One of the big worries for some of my friends is reporting to the VA that you suffer from PTSD, for fear that some future Administration would use that list inappropriately. There has to be a hard line as to what we are trying to identify, with a tie going to the runner. Also, a solid appeal process, and no administrative board should have the authority to curtail any civil right. All these final decisions should be in front of a Judge.

Posted by: Hawkpilot at February 18, 2018 02:11 PM (fqHZs)

314 There are mental problems and then there are mental
problems. There are claustrophobics and then are raving paranoid
schizophrenics.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 02:07 PM (W62qG)
==================

What worries me is, you might make that distinction. I might make that distinction. What if your neighbor doesn't make that distinction and feels its their duty to report you to the authorities. Now you have a mental health assessment on your personal record. Then you want to purchase a handgun from home protection.

No. No.

Posted by: grammie winger - God Loves You, Don't Be Stupid, at February 18, 2018 02:11 PM (lwiT4)

315 There are mental problems and then there are mental problems. There are claustrophobics and then are raving paranoid schizophrenics.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 02:07 PM (W62qG)
*********************

Correct. I was referencing the "they should be reported" comment.

We already have laws and, please correct me, reporting systems that flag those such as paranoid schizophrenics keeping them from passing a background check.

Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 02:11 PM (g4YTo)

316 Thanks. Phobias are an example of something nobody
would bother to report and is trichotillomania and most other forms of
mental illness.

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 02:10 PM (5gaNQ)
========================

Don't worry. It will never happen here .......

Posted by: grammie winger - God Loves You, Don't Be Stupid, at February 18, 2018 02:12 PM (lwiT4)

317 Right direction, wrong question. If we wait for the supremes to valudate our inalienable rights, then Serfs Up! Do you think that the execrable collection of leftist/statist authoritarians in the SCOTUS has any interest in our individual liberties?

Posted by: ErikInTexas at February 18, 2018 02:12 PM (mIJ9W)

318 I also support the government not throwing you in a locked cell because someone reports you as "a little off."

Or worse yet, the government itself decides "you're a little off."

Posted by: grammie winger

__________

But when it was easier to institutionialize someone in this country, it was not a blank check to have gulags.

I mean in the 1950's and early 1960's, were there prison camps?

It was just a lot less homeless people and less clearly dangerous individuals out and about

All that changed when the ACLU got involved.

Obviously the devil is in the details, but I think you do this and preserve the rights of the 99.9%.

If you don't figure out how to separate society from the crazies, count on all of our rights being taken away, not just gun rights.

Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 02:12 PM (uc45P)

319 You are being arrested because you are statistically more likely to have an accident.

That is pretty messed up, IMO.
Posted by: Malcolm Tent at February 18, 2018 02:10 PM (G0Dbd)

Would you rather waiting until there is incontrovertible proof, i.e., other drivers dead or maimed?

It's the same thing with the elderly. At some point people become too great a threat to be allowed to drive.

Driving is a privilege, not a right.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 02:12 PM (W62qG)

320 My daughter had two of her tires slashed by a known deranged man who haunts the streets of Portland. There were witnesses to this event and reported to the police.
The police told my daughter the most that could be done was to put him in jail for the night. Really no skin off his back, a warm cot, and a few hot meals to boot.

This kind of activity and much, much worse occurs every second, hundreds of times in every major city in our country.

Posted by: washrivergal at February 18, 2018 02:13 PM (tcwn1)

321 314: A neighbor can report you based on any crazy thing that comes into his head already. There is nothing to stop him.

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 02:13 PM (5gaNQ)

322 I didn't understand Sessions' statements supporting Rosenstein either. But R did emphasize (albeit quietly) that the indictment of Russians didn't implicate Pres. Trump.

But yeah, AG Sessions is calling for a review into the FBI's failure here. As he should.

Posted by: booknlass at February 18, 2018 02:13 PM (bjSMX)

323 "The fallout of the Flynn case, the "Russian collusion," the FISA warrant, may be the official judicial finding that the FBI lies under oath and falsifies its written documents of interviews."

Never happen. For things that Strzok and Page worked on, maybe. But they didn't work on anything remotely gen pop crime.

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 18, 2018 02:13 PM (pV/54)

324 The police told my daughter the most that could be done was to put him
in jail for the night. Really no skin off his back, a warm cot, and a
few hot meals to boot.
========================

They can't at least put him on a three-day hold? That'w the law in Wisconsin. Maybe it's state by state.

Posted by: grammie winger - God Loves You, Don't Be Stupid, at February 18, 2018 02:16 PM (lwiT4)

325 In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.
/James Madison- Federalist #51

Posted by: Muldoon at February 18, 2018 02:02 PM (wPiJc)

========

It lays out the problem clearly. Is there a solution? I'm starting to feel like maybe we can't prove there's no solution but there probably is none.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at February 18, 2018 02:17 PM (/qEW2)

326 You know what's crazy? I mean, clinically crazy? Denying man-made climate change. Man-made climate change is so obvious and true! People who deny man-made climate change shouldn't be allowed to drive cars or own guns or vote or reproduce or attend school board meetings.

Posted by: WaterCow (adopting the leftist mindset so you don't have to) at February 18, 2018 02:17 PM (y+SdL)

327 Also, it should be absolutely streamlined for a parent or guardian to put someone in an institution. Can we at least agree a minor has less rights, especially if a parent feels they are dangerous?

People like Adam Lanza and Cruz probably would have been in one if the law was structured in a way to facilitate that.

Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 02:17 PM (uc45P)

328 The 2nd amendment functions as a canary in the coal mine. When the government acts to gut it its a sure as shit indicator the government no longer trusts the people, and is the first step in the slide to real tyranny. Its the main firewall, and once that goes America becomes just another enslaved shithole on the world map. History shows this will only go 2 ways. Tyranny, or a 2nd shot heard around the world.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Divison at February 18, 2018 02:18 PM (aMlLZ)

329 316: We have the ability to report specific threats already. The courts have all the commitment documentation they could ever desire including access to the entire medical record.

It is a miserable shame, a tragedy, that the courts do not share this info with local PDs in the case of homicidal people. Cruz behavior would not be considered "specific" as he did not say which school or which individuals.

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 02:18 PM (5gaNQ)

330 They can't at least put him on a three-day hold? That'w the law in Wisconsin. Maybe it's state by state.
Posted by: grammie winger - God Loves You, Don't Be Stupid, at February 18, 2018 02:16 PM (lwiT4)

+++

They said 24 hours. Maybe that's Oregon. Anyway, a three-day hold would have been even a better deal for the guy.
Not only more meals and a warm bed for three nights, but also fresh clothes and maybe a shower.

Posted by: washrivergal at February 18, 2018 02:19 PM (tcwn1)

331 There are three classes of people involved in every crime: Victims, Witnesses and Suspect....and sometimes those classes are fairly fluid.

An investigator is essentially compelled to talk to all three classes of people, but NONE of them are - or can be -
compelled to talk to an investigator.

That is why it is against the law to lie to an investigator.

Posted by: MJN1957 at February 18, 2018 02:19 PM (zgv3P)

332 Would you rather waiting until there is incontrovertible proof, i.e., other drivers dead or maimed?

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 02:12 PM (W62qG)

Pre-Crime is Kick Ass ... ain't it ? As long as it's aimed at Other People.

I tell you people ... and tell you ... and tell you again ... Democrats and Republicans ain't all that different. They both LOVE to use the State to Compel The Citizen.

The parties just disagree on Who does the Compelling ... and who gets Compelled.

But Hey ... who wants to wait until a Nutty Fucker with Pro-Gun Bumper Stickers does what we all know he will ? Right ?

Best nip that shit in the bud.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 18, 2018 02:19 PM (fiGNd)

333 The entire concept of prior restraint relies on a judgement of intent. There is a whole spectrum of words and actions that people use to judge that intent. The difficulty lies in determining what degree of certainty is needed to justify intervening.

Saying, "Why I oughta punch your face." is not equivalent to standing in a schoolyard with a weapon and your finger on the trigger. But somewhere between the two is a line that was crossed. Where is that line?

Posted by: Muldoon at February 18, 2018 02:19 PM (wPiJc)

334 There is such a stigma about mental illness - that there is a near 1:1 correlation between mental illness and physical violence. The only people most mentally ill folks have ever harmed are themselves.

Posted by: grammie winger - God Loves You, Don't Be Stupid, at February 18, 2018 02:20 PM (lwiT4)

335 327: In deep blue NJ a parent can sign a kid into a psychiatric hospital.

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 02:20 PM (5gaNQ)

336 Big government isn't bad because of its size, but because of its violation of the constitution an liberty. Government has only one tendency: to grow and to take away freedom.

The objection to a cataract is not that it is deafening or dangerous or even destructive; it is that it cannot stop... The State has suddenly and quietly gone mad. It is talking nonsense; and it can't stop.

Posted by: Zombie Chesterton at February 18, 2018 02:21 PM (2lndx)

337 DUI is largely a cash grab and politicians that want to appeal to older voters.

All the studies show that its people that are really hammered that cause wrecks, not the guy that blows .08 after having two beers.

M.A.D.D. is a teetotaler organization that passed all of these stringent laws.

And no, pulling someone over on a fishing expedition because its a Saturday night is no different than going door to door and seeing if someone is doing something illegal.

Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 02:21 PM (uc45P)

338 328. As Machiavelli writes : if you wish to slay an armed man, you do not tell him 'give me your arms, that I can slay you.' You take his arms, and, having them, you can slay him.
Machiavelli also notes in the Discourses that the chief cause of a republic's freedom is an armed population.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at February 18, 2018 02:22 PM (fA1SL)

339 My old boss told me he has a cousin who fits the Cruz description . The whole family knows he is a problem, has reported it multiple times, and nobody will do anything about it because "he hasn't broken a law yet".

In Cruz' case, the first law he broke was mass murder.

Posted by: Hawkpilot at February 18, 2018 02:22 PM (fqHZs)

340 What you want is security from nutjobs, what you'll get is a single-payer healthcare system with mandatory mental hygiene exams conducted by government functionaries that loathe you bitter clingers. I'm sure that will turn out well.

Conservatives: The IRS is partisan! We can't trust the FBI or CIA!! The ATF is purposely selling guns to criminals!!! But we'd better get the government involved in removing the mentally unfit from the herd stat.

We really do have the government we deserve.

Posted by: Bear with Assyemtrical Balls at February 18, 2018 02:23 PM (H5knJ)

341 I think part of the problem, and don't laugh, is that our jails are nothing like the third world shit-holes. It really is not a deterrent. It is not a punishment to go jail in the United States.

Posted by: washrivergal at February 18, 2018 02:23 PM (tcwn1)

342 325----It lays out the problem clearly. Is there a solution? I'm starting to feel like maybe we can't prove there's no solution but there probably is none.
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at February 18, 2018 02:17 PM (/qEW2)
-------------------------------
There is no solution.
It's part of the human condition.

I think all we can do is what the Founders tried to do, that is, set up checks and balances and hope that we manage to avoid extremes.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 18, 2018 02:24 PM (0jtPF)

343 Oh Corgis, baseball thread is up

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at February 18, 2018 02:24 PM (6W470)

344 318,
"But when it was easier to institutionialize someone in this country, it was not a blank check to have gulags.

I mean in the 1950's and early 1960's, were there prison camps?
"

Now this, that I know of, was in the 70s, in Michigan, and was for people who were institutionalized mostly for being unable to care for themselves outside of an institution.

Every year there would be a hearing, before a judge, to determine if they should continue to be in the institution. They would have a representative to argue their case and the State had someone to argue the State's side. My late mother's job in the decade before she retired was to represent the State in these hearings. That's how I know about them.

Posted by: geoffb at February 18, 2018 02:25 PM (zOpu5)

345 In Cruz' case, the first law he broke was mass murder.

Credibly threatening to kill someone is a crime. A very quick search says it can mean up to five years in prison.

It is certainly worth an investigation to see what they are planning to do.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at February 18, 2018 02:26 PM (2lndx)

346
There is such a stigma about mental illness - that there is a near 1:1
correlation between mental illness and physical violence. The only
people most mentally ill folks have ever harmed are themselves.
=====

And just like LEOs abusing their power, the mental health professionals get to define the terms. Kid who just died was a classic case of mental health/LEO professionals playing G-d. Still angry about him and thankful that I spent so much time and energy keeping my kids out of the whole cesspool.

Posted by: mustbequantum at February 18, 2018 02:26 PM (MIKMs)

347 washrivergal - on a three-day hold, he would probably go to a hospital, not a jail. He might get a psych assessment if its a decent place. If the assessment showed he needed further care, he might be involuntarily admitted. Or voluntarily, if he signs himself in.

Posted by: grammie winger - God Loves You, Don't Be Stupid, at February 18, 2018 02:26 PM (lwiT4)

348 In Cruz' case, the first law he broke was mass murder.
Posted by: Hawkpilot at February 18, 2018 02:22 PM (fqHZs)

Bullshit. That's just factually wrong.

He fired his rifle into neighbor's property ... multiple times. He shot to kill their livestock.

He got into so many fights that the various school-districts got tired of counting. Sure ... I get it ... most adults just want that shit to go away. But it's assault.

He carried ammunition into schools. He made verified threats against mulitple people. If you tell me "Scogg - I'm going to kill your ass" - I don't have to wait. I'm going to act first.

Horse. Shit. That's part of the bullshit narrative that's being sold around here, there, and everywhere - the notion that this Son-Of-A-Bitch went from Zero to School Shooter.

Horse. Shit. He made a zillion steps along the way ... but Broward County didn't want to do anything about it. They made sure nobody else nipped that little fucker in the bud, though.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 18, 2018 02:27 PM (fiGNd)

349 mustbequantum - I read upthread about your friend. I'm so sorry.

Posted by: grammie winger - God Loves You, Don't Be Stupid, at February 18, 2018 02:27 PM (lwiT4)

350 339: If he is has been in and out of hospitals (and in NJ anyway a threat to hurt others can land you there, easily) a parent can get an order allowing them to make healthcare decisions that would force treatment. In NJ, on a county by county basis, we also have involuntary outpatient commitments to keep people on meds. This is no slam dunk for the hospitals.

On the other hand some people should be in facilities for the long haul

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 02:28 PM (5gaNQ)

351 348 In Cruz' case, the first law he broke was mass murder.
Posted by: Hawkpilot at February 18, 2018 02:22 PM (fqHZs)
------------------------------------------------------

Bullshit. That's just factually wrong.

He fired his rifle into neighbor's property ... multiple times. He shot to kill their livestock.

He got into so many fights that the various school-districts got tired of counting. Sure ... I get it ... most adults just want that shit to go away. But it's assault.

He carried ammunition into schools. He made verified threats against mulitple people. If you tell me "Scogg - I'm going to kill your ass" - I don't have to wait. I'm going to act first.

Horse. Shit. That's part of the bullshit narrative that's being sold around here, there, and everywhere - the notion that this Son-Of-A-Bitch went from Zero to School Shooter.

Horse. Shit. He made a zillion steps along the way ... but Broward County didn't want to do anything about it. They made sure nobody else nipped that little fucker in the bud, though.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 18, 2018 02:27 PM (fiGNd)
**************

Could there have been some kind of preferential racism involved?

Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 02:29 PM (g4YTo)

352 washrivergal, I agree with you. I read where three killers of a 7 year old girl were given life sentences.

I thought to myself, it was as if we as a society are saying, congratulations! you've won support for life.

In the Bahamas, our tour guide made a point to tell us about the awful jail cells there. prisoners can't completely stand up o lie down, because of the cell's dimensions, and they have a bucket. He said, They don't go back to jail, after being there once.

Posted by: booknlass at February 18, 2018 02:29 PM (bjSMX)

353 The parties just disagree on Who does the Compelling ... and who gets Compelled.

Posted by: ScoggDog
________

Pretty much.

A couple of additional things worth noting: the parties more or less take turns, and one side in particular has become quite bold in its compelling when it's in charge. Also, some people are, practically speaking, above the law.

I've said this before -- The best way to end this misbehavior is through deterrence. The best way to deter is through a few examples. OK, Hillary Clinton will never spend a minute in incarceration, but someone helped her to commit felonies. That person must have his life ruined, publicly -- because the next Hillary Clinton won't go to jail either, but the person who makes the next Hillary Clinton possible ought to know what might happen to him.

Posted by: FireHorse at February 18, 2018 02:31 PM (y+SdL)

354
Saying, "Why I oughta punch your face." is not equivalent to standing in a schoolyard with a weapon and your finger on the trigger. But somewhere between the two is a line that was crossed. Where is that line?
Posted by: Muldoon at February 18, 2018 02:19 PM (wPiJc)

The threat has be credible, and if it is it's classified as assault, which is a crime. In TX LTC law we are taught that just putting a hand on our holstered gun during a dispute can be classified as an assault.

Posted by: stace at February 18, 2018 02:32 PM (6HFDU)

355 My old boss told me he has a cousin who fits the Cruz description . The whole family knows he is a problem, has reported it multiple times, and nobody will do anything about it because "he hasn't broken a law yet".
------------

Heart breaking story. Yesterday a good friend of mine had his son arrested. The son is 35 years old and schizophrentic. He will not take his meds, and is increasingly physically hostile to others.

His parents have been worried sick about him for years. Everything that they have tried has failed. Finally, his dad did what he had to do in order to proceed with involuntary commitment, out of fear for both his son, and the community.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at February 18, 2018 02:33 PM (QxXRY)

356 Horse. Shit. He made a zillion steps along the way ... but Broward County didn't want to do anything about it. They made sure nobody else nipped that little fucker in the bud, though.

Had not heard any of that. Wonder why?

Posted by: Hawkpilot at February 18, 2018 02:33 PM (fqHZs)

357 Could there have been some kind of preferential racism involved?
Posted by: gNewt at February 18, 2018 02:29 PM (g4YTo)

Honestly ?

It's fucking Broward County. They let this little dick go unchecked because it's Broward County. Upscale, Progressive Miami.

Now ... if he'd have shot into MY backyard, and I did what I'd do ... put his ass down ?

Well - the wailing and gnashing of teeth over how my Redneck Cro-Magnon ass extinguished a Youth just getting his life together would have been deafening.

Keep in mind ... Broward County police went to this fucker's various residences twenty times - by their own admission.

But Hey ... let's ban Semi-Auto Mag Fed weapons. And maybe buy Broward County Police an MRAP.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 18, 2018 02:34 PM (fiGNd)

358 355: Dad is to be commended.

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 02:34 PM (5gaNQ)

359 The only people most mentally ill folks have ever harmed are themselves.

Posted by: grammie winger - God Loves You, Don't Be Stupid, at February 18, 2018 02:20 PM

We all know Vic. Vic had an issue. The Dr prescribed a drug. One pill wasn't cutting it. So Vics Dr told him to take two. Vic passes out with extremely low blood pressure and ends up in the hospital. From one extra dose a day.

Modern pharmacology is potent medicine. Yet we're engaging in this little game of seeing what could possibly happen if you supply a teenager with the most potent pharmaceuticals known to mankind, drugs with known suicidal side effects -- allowed to self-medicate dose. To me, homicide and suicide are two sides of the same coin. A coin which when flipped fortunately ends up mainly suicide. You don't see that much on the front page of the news.

No parents, an AR-15, the most potent pharmaceuticals known to mankind, and a grudge. I'm not a gun-grabber, but one of the items on that list needs to be modified, controlled better, or removed.

Posted by: Acme Trucking Enterprises, White Truck Division at February 18, 2018 02:34 PM (2FqvZ)

360 356: Police did not show up at his house over 30 times because he was playing Sinatra too loudly

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 02:35 PM (5gaNQ)

361 No lying to investigators shouldn't be a crime. We already have a place you cannot legally lie: under oath in a courtroom. We have police and judges, we don't need police-judges.

While we are at it, it's high time the FBI was split apart: we don't need a federal-level Scotland Yard and an MI5 in one package. Hell, if Hoover had his way decades ago, we would have ended up with an FBI/CIA combo (under his leadership, of course). In light of past abuses, that's a scary thought. It's probably past time to make the business of counterintelligence and enforcing counterintel laws its own thing apart from doing things like chasing mobsters (or covering for them like Bulger in Boston) and checking out or failing to check out potential school shooters.

Posted by: Mike Z. at February 18, 2018 02:35 PM (nx9Dt)

362 We don't really question that when someone gets really old and has dementia, they get put away by family member for their own good.

Somehow, I don't think large swaths of the population are losing their civil rights over this.

My grandma became straight up violent in her mid 90's, even assaulted a nurse and anyone else would have been put in prison. Was put in a home against her will, glad most legal authorities would have ignored her pleas to leave.

Posted by: Apache at February 18, 2018 02:36 PM (uc45P)

363 Good timing. I'm literally on my way out the door to play baseball, as this is our opening day.

Later! Wish me luck!

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 18, 2018 02:37 PM (W62qG)

364 Dad is to be commended.
Posted by: CN
--------------

Awfully hard on the mother and father, but there simply was no recourse.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at February 18, 2018 02:38 PM (QxXRY)

365 364 I don't know where you are, but the psychiatric hospitals I've worked in are not the MGM horror show variety. The movies have done us a great disservice.

Hopefully, they can find a way to stabilize him. Is there involuntary outpatient commitment where he lives?

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 02:40 PM (5gaNQ)

366 Had not heard any of that. Wonder why?
Posted by: Hawkpilot
---------

He's not identifiably a Republican.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at February 18, 2018 02:40 PM (w1zJX)

367 Wow. I step away from the HQ for a couple of hours and a ton of people join me on the Dark Side. Heh.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 18, 2018 02:43 PM (NWiLs)

368 If you must speak to the police, never make a declarative statement.

Use qualifiers for everything said and mostly claim that you don't have anything to say about that.

And if you're innocent that's true. And if you're guilty or have knowledge of a crime or about a crime, that is also true.

They can't succeed at convicting you of a crime if you don't commit one and can prove it.

So just tell the inquirers that you have nothing to say to them about whatever they're asking. Simple really.

Don't resort to a recitation of the 5th amendment or any thing else.

Don't refuse to talk. Just tell them you have nothing to say.

Period. End of statement.

Posted by: jakee308 at February 18, 2018 02:45 PM (C4l4A)

369 Don't refuse to talk. Just tell them you have nothing to say.

Period. End of statement.
Posted by: jakee308
------------

You might try, "At this point, what difference does it make?"

That seems to work, sometimes.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at February 18, 2018 02:48 PM (cp1if)

370 My wife just saw on Face book that Sylvester Stallone died.

I told her DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU READ ON FACEBOOK.

SO then I did a google search and found out that there were reports of his death - back in 2016.

Posted by: Minuteman at February 18, 2018 02:50 PM (0+djI)

371 It's fucking Broward County. They let this little dick go unchecked because it's Broward County. Upscale, Progressive Miami.
...
I read on one of the gun blogs that Broward County schools joined a movement to end the "school to prison" pipeline pipeline because racist. Which means that instead of reporting crimes to the police they handle them in the school system, with predictable results.

If that's true, then that's another place the system may have failed, since it's reported that Cruz committed crimes in school.

Posted by: stace at February 18, 2018 02:50 PM (6HFDU)

372 370 My wife just saw on Face book that Sylvester Stallone died.

I told her DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU READ ON FACEBOOK.

SO then I did a google search and found out that there were reports of his death - back in 2016.
Posted by: Minuteman at February 18, 2018 02:50 PM (0+djI)

We should, uh...have, have, have a moment of, uh...silence for, uh, Mr. Stallone.

Posted by: Jeff Goldblum at February 18, 2018 02:52 PM (NWiLs)

373 I read on one of the gun blogs that Broward County schools joined a movement to end the "school to prison" pipeline pipeline because racist. Which means that instead of reporting crimes to the police they handle them in the school system, with predictable results.

If that's true, then that's another place the system may have failed, since it's reported that Cruz committed crimes in school.
Posted by: stace at February 18, 2018 02:50 PM (6HFDU)

Trayvon Martin.

Also, Baker Act young offenders to seal criminal acts as a health records.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at February 18, 2018 02:56 PM (Eu5eZ)

374 Never lie to the cops.
Never say anything to them without your lawyer present.
When answering say "Yes" or "No".
Never consent to a search of any kind.
Make them take you to court.
If a traffic violation supeana every officer present.
I have gotten a few tickets thrown out because the cop did not show up to court.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at February 18, 2018 02:57 PM (QMwOT)

375
My wife just saw on Face book that Sylvester Stallone died.

Was that wrong? Should we not have done that? Because we've been all over the Internet and that happens all the time.

Posted by: The 13 Russian Trolls That Rule The World at February 18, 2018 02:59 PM (2FqvZ)

376 http://bit.ly/2GpPfAM
------------
Sessions: FBI's Handling Of The Dossier 'Will Be Investigated' [VIDEO]
-----------
Rip Van SESSIONZZZZZZZZZZ doing nothing again

Posted by: DeploraBOT at February 18, 2018 03:00 PM (y3aQB)

377 My wife just saw on Face book that Sylvester Stallone died.

If true, which I doubt, then another Libtard bites the dust.

Adrian!!!

Posted by: The Man from Athens at February 18, 2018 03:00 PM (QMwOT)

378
BOOGITY, BOOGITY, BOOGITY!!!

Posted by: Spun and Murky at February 18, 2018 03:03 PM (4DCSq)

379 Heh, just caught A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, on TCM. I can't stand Ben Wankowitz or whatever his name is since before the 16 election.

It's the first time I saw him since and thought, he must be miserable with Trump as President. Made me smile.

Posted by: Infidel at February 18, 2018 03:14 PM (FwcYV)

380 The founding fathers were absolute right to call it a fire.

Replace the beltway with a moat?

Posted by: DaveA at February 18, 2018 03:17 PM (FhXTo)

381 376: Is the recused going to have Rosenstein, who signed a reauthorization FISA app using the dossier as a reason, look into it? He once again vouched for Roddy today, so why not. He and his lovely Lisa are pretty much above reproach to some

Posted by: CN at February 18, 2018 03:20 PM (5gaNQ)

382 Obama was pushed around like a hotel vacuum cleaner - James Woods

Posted by: Under Fire at February 18, 2018 03:28 PM (r9UYA)

383 Broward County. Upscale, Progressive Miami.

...

instead of reporting crimes to the police they
handle them in the school system, with predictable results.

There's going to be a lot of lawyering in the sun for a few years.

Posted by: DaveA at February 18, 2018 03:50 PM (FhXTo)

384 http://bit.ly/2FfXU9C
----
Sunday Talks: Maria Bartiromo Interviews Ken Starr
Posted on February 18, 2018 by sundance

Posted by: DeploraBOT at February 18, 2018 04:18 PM (y3aQB)

385 I have always found it interesting that the police can lie to the public with impunity; they lie, and lie constantly, to the people they claim to "serve". But if we lie to them, they will demand the full, soul-crushing power of the State come crashing down on our shoulders.

Screw 'em.

Posted by: CatchThirtyThr33 at February 18, 2018 04:37 PM (01faK)

386 317 Right direction, wrong question. If we wait for the supremes to valudate our inalienable rights, then Serfs Up! Do you think that the execrable collection of leftist/statist authoritarians in the SCOTUS has any interest in our individual liberties?
Posted by: ErikInTexas at February 18, 2018 02:12 PM (mIJ9W)

Keep electing people who will NOT put Statists on the Court(s). I did not vote for Trump (the Horde will begin demanding my immediate arrest for treason at any moment) BUT there are things that he has done that I can get behind. One of them are his court picks.

Posted by: CatchThirtyThr33 at February 18, 2018 04:40 PM (01faK)

387 256 U.S. Border Customs agents are the biggest dicks on the planet. Complete and total assholes.

The Canada Border Services Agency says "Hold my beer, eh?"

Posted by: CatchThirtyThr33 at February 18, 2018 04:59 PM (01faK)

388 http://bit.ly/2GoLFGV
---------
CBS Host To Podesta: How Did Russians Know To Focus On Purple States, But Hillary Didn't? [VIDEO]

Posted by: DeploraBOT at February 18, 2018 05:11 PM (y3aQB)

389 Just precede all statements with .., "To the best of my recollection..."

To the best of my recollection, I was not there.

Posted by: SMOD at February 18, 2018 08:26 PM (e8kgV)

390 When the government lies to us it is called "good politics". When we lie to the government it is call a felony. The Magna Carta basically says that the same laws that apply to the governed apply to the government. I think there are over 300 million of the governed and only 535 of the government at the federal level. Maybe it is time to tell the government to drop dead.

Posted by: Rich at February 18, 2018 11:28 PM (jxpou)

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