A Brilliant Defense Of Life

In Chile, pregnant women silently gave voice to the voiceless with “loudhailers” to amplify the sound of the ❤️s beating inside them.

One participant said, "Abortion activists lost all words. They watched in silence: The voice of those hearts was an unanswerable question." pic.twitter.com/Q1X1WNgpWJ
— Feminists for Life (@Feminists4Life) January 27, 2018

I am in awe of the brilliance and simplicity of this demonstration.

This is exactly the kind of pushback that is so sorely lacking in conservative circles. Of course there are exceptions: Dana Loesch is good at it (although that red dress keeps distracting me), and Tucker Carlson is a master debater who can easily eviscerate the left's best talking heads. But those are more intellectual and less emotional. Maybe it is time to examine the emotional appeal as an adjunct to our logic and rational thought.

Posted by: CBD at 12:15 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Ah, the smell of a new thread

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2018 12:10 PM (aC6Sd)

2 Kudos to these women, I'll get the horde

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2018 12:12 PM (aC6Sd)

3 Wonderful!

Truth can never be silenced.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at January 28, 2018 12:15 PM (EoRCO)

4 B/c Jordan Peterson's book is an Antidote to Chaos, I've changed nic from Professor Chaos...for awhile at least.

Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 12:15 PM (cgaMS)

5 Truth can never be silenced.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at January 28, 2018 12:15 PM

We're trying, we're trying!

Posted by: The MSM at January 28, 2018 12:16 PM (DMUuz)

6 Hillary believes that the right to abortion doesn't end until the kid leaves the hospital. For boy babies, maybe not even then.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 28, 2018 12:18 PM (pV/54)

7 I was cautiously happy when I heard the heartbeat at 7 1/2 weeks, but when I hit 11 weeks and my baby was still alive and I heard its heart and saw it move (and it really sank in that I hadn't lost it) ... It was a visceral thing. You really can't explain Life in words; you have to experience it.

Posted by: sunny-dee at January 28, 2018 12:18 PM (QAOZh)

8 It's not a heart until I say so.

Posted by: Cecile Richards at January 28, 2018 12:19 PM (IqV8l)

9 True that. Reasoning doesn't resonate with the mentally infirm.

Posted by: dcd-in-indiana at January 28, 2018 12:19 PM (bxn25)

10 The human heart is fully formed by 9 weeks after the sperm enters the egg.

Posted by: Muldoon at January 28, 2018 12:21 PM (wPiJc)

11 the Left has been conducting agit prop and street theatrics for decades. We have quite some catching up to do.

Posted by: kallisto at January 28, 2018 12:22 PM (mogRH)

12 Truth can never be silenced. Posted by: Hairyback Guy at January 28, 2018 12:15 PM
We're trying, we're trying! Posted by: The MSM at January 28, 2018 12:16 PM (DMUuz)
=====

Gosnell, Gosnell, Gosnell.

Posted by: mustbequantum at January 28, 2018 12:22 PM (MIKMs)

13 Great demonstration!

The ladies of Chile are to be commended.

And, Chile is to be commended for allowing such a demonstration.

Posted by: Blake at January 28, 2018 12:23 PM (WEBkv)

14 This is exactly the kind of pushback that is so sorely lacking in conservative circles"

Careful. You'll make Jeb! upset...

Posted by: Anon a mouse at January 28, 2018 12:24 PM (7LY+6)

15 I generally stay out of the abortion "debate" because it's never a debate. The only thing I can say to lefties is "you know, those people on the other side, they really do believe that those are babies being killed, so if you know that, you really can't fault them for believing abortion is evil."

Then you get all the "but it's not a baby" and "hands off my body" and "The Patriarchy!!"

Sure sure sure, but if you DID think it was a baby... they don't want to hear that. So that's how the conversation ends. Which is fine by me. I really don't think there's any point.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 12:24 PM (Pz4pT)

16 Feminists 4 Life is still around? I remember when their officers were all NARAL plants.

Posted by: kallisto at January 28, 2018 12:24 PM (mogRH)

17 Maybe this will convince the Sarah Silvermans of the fallacy of their "goo" argument. But then they aren't very smart or open to a challenge from pregnant "haters".

Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 12:25 PM (5gaNQ)

18 Anywhere in western Europe, that rally would be shut down and the participants arrested and thrown in jail because "hate speech."

*spit*

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 28, 2018 12:25 PM (T28di)

19 The human heart is fully formed by 9 weeks after the sperm enters the egg.

Posted by: Muldoon at January 28, 2018 12:21 PM (wPiJc)

I'm so old I remember when conception would occur ten minutes after the first feature began at the drive-in.

Posted by: Acme Trucking Enterprises, White Truck Division at January 28, 2018 12:25 PM (2FqvZ)

20 Contrast the science of human life beginning at conception with the "science" of man-made global warming/cooling/climatechangeyhopey.

Posted by: SMOD Keeper at January 28, 2018 12:26 PM (3v+B0)

21 Very brilliant.

Here is a YouTube video I found at the Twitter link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R61umChuNKU

Posted by: rickl at January 28, 2018 12:26 PM (sdi6R)

22 God bless these brave women.

Posted by: RM at January 28, 2018 12:26 PM (U3LtS)

23 18 Hate=disagrees with leftists?
Leftists are totalitarians by nature.

Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 12:27 PM (5gaNQ)

24 My wife is going to give birth any day now so this thread is definitely timely. After seeing an ultrasound I have no idea how anyone could argue if the baby is actually "alive".

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 12:28 PM (IYHxL)

25 And thanks, CBD, for posting this. This needs to be expanded upon, big time.

Posted by: RM at January 28, 2018 12:28 PM (U3LtS)

26 The same lefties that champion late term abortions want people who drown puppies to do life in prison. You cannot rationalize with people who can't understand that heart beat is a living being dependent on the humanity of it's mom.

Posted by: Rose at January 28, 2018 12:28 PM (30UCB)

27 Well Done!

This has to spread ... world wide.

Posted by: Paladin at January 28, 2018 12:28 PM (9ihbl)

28 Imagine this as a counter-demonstration at every kind of anti-Trump demonstration.

Like at the Wimmenz Marches, all of them, with speaker towers same as at a stadium rock concert.

Posted by: Les Kinetic at January 28, 2018 12:29 PM (U6f54)

29 At a lot of 'feminist' marches, there are always a few with the signs 'keep your government out of my healthcare' and I just can't reconcile the stupidity.

Posted by: mustbequantum at January 28, 2018 12:29 PM (MIKMs)

30 In the US antifa would kick them in the belly

Posted by: Regular joe at January 28, 2018 12:29 PM (7PllL)

31 I noticed that "testicles - virus" article in the sidebar. I think the solution is obvious - for the good health of the victim, the instant anyone is diagnosed with AIDS, cut those puppies off!

Posted by: Tom Servo at January 28, 2018 12:30 PM (V2Yro)

32 24 My wife is going to give birth any day now so this thread is definitely timely. After seeing an ultrasound I have no idea how anyone could argue if the baby is actually "alive".
Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 12:28 PM (IYHxL)

-----------------

Congratulations!

Posted by: Blake at January 28, 2018 12:30 PM (WEBkv)

33 18. But most of western Europe at least limits abortion to the first 12 to 14 weeks. Hate speech is only speech that criticizes rapefugees for raping and being layabouts living on the government teat AFAICT

Posted by: PaleRider, simply irredeemable at January 28, 2018 12:30 PM (84F5k)

34 12. My boss, a 30something', lived at one time blocks away from Gosnell's satanic chop shop. He didn't even know who the butcher was. When I informed him, he thought I was spewing right wing lies. Finally dropping Seth Williams' name got his attention.

Posted by: kallisto at January 28, 2018 12:30 PM (mogRH)

35 Thank you CBD! This is a brilliant post, and God bless those ladies who are standing up and standing firm. Life is precious. It is not a burden, or a punishment imposed on someone. I just wish adoption were not the onerous, expensive option it has become, so that more young ladies would consider that instead of killing their babies.

Posted by: moki at January 28, 2018 12:31 PM (V+V48)

36 Thanks Blake.

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 12:31 PM (IYHxL)

37 It takes a mix, but the emotional appeal is often lacking on the conservative side, because emotions are generally untrustworthy and uncontrolled, so they are easier to use on the left.

Imagine the mountain of skeletons that Cecile Richards leaves behind as she resigns as chair of Planned Parenthood. Imagine all those little wordless screams as those babies were murdered helpless and innocent in the womb. Sometimes I feel as if real violence is justified to stop it, but I know that only would make matters worse. And it wouldn't help the babies. Abortion would at best go underground and then both the women and the babies are at risk.

We need a culture that views abortion as evil and wrong, as a the infanticide horror it truly is, so that the motivation to not do it comes from within each of us, rather than imposed from the outside.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:32 PM (39g3+)

38 But the lobsters feel pain!

Posted by: josephistan at January 28, 2018 12:32 PM (ANIFC)

39 29 At a lot of 'feminist' marches, there are always a few with the signs 'keep your government out of my healthcare' and I just can't reconcile the stupidity.
Posted by: mustbequantum at January 28, 2018 12:29 PM (MIKMs)

-----------------------------

Be funny if someone were to challenge such a twit by telling them they completely agree and, as a start, let's end all government funding of Planned Parenthood.

Posted by: Blake at January 28, 2018 12:32 PM (WEBkv)

40 But those are more intellectual and less emotional. Maybe it is time to examine the emotional appeal as an adjunct to our logic and rational thought.

Basic moral intuitions are not open to rational debate, because they can't be. They are intuitions (not emotions) about goodness and evil. Axioms of moral truth, not theorems. The truth of moral intuitions must be asserted and defended as basic moral truths, not neglected, belittled or rationalised away. The only thing that is up for debate is how to balance countervailing moral obligations.

Posted by: Alcoholic Asshole Shut In at January 28, 2018 12:32 PM (CPk08)

41 23 18 Hate=disagrees with leftists?
Leftists are totalitarians by nature.
Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 12:27 PM (5gaNQ)

Yes and yes. All disagreement with leftist orthodoxy is labeled as some species of hate, typically denoted as an "ism" or a "phobia": racism, sexism, white supremacism, homophobia, transphobia, Islamophobia, xenophobia. It's all part of controlling language and thought, and using intimidation and emotional manipulation to silence disagreement.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 12:32 PM (NWiLs)

42 7 I was cautiously happy when I heard the heartbeat at 7 1/2 weeks, but when I hit 11 weeks and my baby was still alive and I heard its heart and saw it move (and it really sank in that I hadn't lost it) ... It was a visceral thing. You really can't explain Life in words; you have to experience it.
Posted by: sunny-dee at January 28, 2018 12:18 PM (QAOZh)

Indeed.
God bless you and I hope everything continues to go well after all the difficulties you've had.

When we married, my husband was NOT thrilled about having kids. He only agreed very reluctantly, and was very meh about the positive preg test.

But when he heard the heartbeat....everything changed. He's been a great father from that day on.

Posted by: stace: Irish bot, now 50% less drunk than Russian bots at January 28, 2018 12:33 PM (6HFDU)

43 I would hate to think of Sasha or Malia punished with baby.

Posted by: Ex.President Dickhead at January 28, 2018 12:33 PM (NUH4Q)

44 It is an interesting take on the traditional cacerolazo, beating hearts instead of beating pans.

A lot of South America is both very traditionally Catholic, and very conscious that the rest of the world looks down on them as not sufficiently modern, liberal and progressive.
This is brilliant. Latin America has a history of Prog/Socialist inspired street theater "just puttin' on a show, nothing political here just social commentary"

This is political street theater from the conservative side

Posted by: Kindltot at January 28, 2018 12:34 PM (2K6fY)

45 Adding by congratulations to thathalfrican. As Dave Ramsey would say "YAAAY"

Posted by: PaleRider, simply irredeemable at January 28, 2018 12:34 PM (84F5k)

46 Emotional appeals do work faster than logical appeals...but there's a drawback: anyone can use them for anything. It's unclear how to gauge the "baby's beating heart" appeal against the "my body, my choice" appeal.

Posted by: Francis W. Porretto at January 28, 2018 12:34 PM (mj4NC)

47 24 My wife is going to give birth any day now so this thread is definitely timely. After seeing an ultrasound I have no idea how anyone could argue if the baby is actually "alive".
Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 12:28 PM (IYHxL)

Congratulations on your quarterfrican!

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 12:34 PM (NWiLs)

48 43: I hope they are careful, as I would hate to see the nation punished by Obama 3.0

Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 12:35 PM (5gaNQ)

49 I noticed that "testicles - virus" article in the sidebar. I think the solution is obvious - for the good health of the victim, the instant anyone is diagnosed with AIDS, cut those puppies off!

Posted by: Tom Servo at January 28, 2018 12:30 PM (V2Yro)

Watch what you wish for. When I read that article I was thinking of feminazis pushing that as a solution to a long line of imaginary abuses.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Divison at January 28, 2018 12:36 PM (aMlLZ)

50 I have endless sympathy for the girl caught in fear and desperation with a baby in her, terrified of what her family will say, how people will judge her, how her future seems hopeless and how she's just afraid of the complications, pain, and potential physical danger of pregnancy. I understand their feeling trapped and terrified.

They need to know love and support and understand there are ways past this, that they can be forgiven in Christ, that they can find a home for their baby, and that they will be loved despite their mistake. Not encouraged to murder the poor helpless baby and pretend they were never pregnant at all.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:36 PM (39g3+)

51 Oh my. Oh my.

Posted by: grammie winger is hanging on till Spring Training, at January 28, 2018 12:36 PM (lwiT4)

52 i would only add that when between two emotional appeals one is clearly based on reality, and the other is clearly based on a delusion, willful or otherwise, then the first will most likely be more successful in the long run.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 28, 2018 12:36 PM (T28di)

53 46: Loud heartbeats clearly indicate another "body", and destroy the stupid notion that there is no "baby" involved

Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 12:37 PM (5gaNQ)

54 It's unclear how to gauge the "baby's beating heart" appeal against the "my body, my choice" appeal.

Plainly NOT your body.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:37 PM (39g3+)

55 I would hate to think of Sasha or Malia punished with baby.

Posted by: Ex.President Dickhead at January 28, 2018 12:33 PM (NUH4Q)

I agree, I would hate to see them punish humanity with a baby also.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Divison at January 28, 2018 12:37 PM (aMlLZ)

56 "It's unclear how to gauge the "baby's beating heart" appeal against the "my body, my choice" appeal."

The first makes it clear that the premise of the second is a lie.

Posted by: Apostate at January 28, 2018 12:38 PM (7d/38)

57 Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 12:28 PM (IYHxL)

Congratulations!!

Do you know if it is a boy or girl?

Do you have names picked out?

I can't believe you didn't allow the Horde of the Gross in the Lemon Tree Shame Forest to vote on the names!

Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 12:38 PM (cgaMS)

58 It's unclear how to gauge the "baby's beating heart" appeal against the "my body, my choice" appeal.

Posted by: Francis W. Porretto at January 28, 2018 12:34 PM (mj4NC)
=====================

It is? Seems simple to me. Is that my heart beating, or somebody else's?

Posted by: grammie winger is hanging on till Spring Training, at January 28, 2018 12:38 PM (lwiT4)

59 I named my two Otto and Eve.

In case they were dyslexic.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 28, 2018 12:39 PM (pV/54)

60 They need to know love and support and understand there are ways past this, that they can be forgiven in Christ, that they can find a home for their baby, and that they will be loved despite their mistake. Not encouraged to murder the poor helpless baby and pretend they were never pregnant at all.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:36 PM (39g3+)

When my daughters were little, people would sometimes ask me 'what would you do if in ten years she told you she was pregnant. Wouldn't you want her to have an abortion." and I could never understand that. I'd take care of the kid so my girl could finish school. It's a no-brainer.

Posted by: Alcoholic Asshole Shut In at January 28, 2018 12:39 PM (CPk08)

61 I have endless sympathy for the girl caught in fear and desperation with a baby in her,

You almost make it sound like the baby just showed up out of nowhere in her uterus one day. Unless she was raped, she wasn't just a passive observer in the whole getting pregnant thing. Also, I don't think there's a whole lot of stigma, generally speaking, associated with single motherhood any more. There might be enclaves of that, but there's far more celebration and subsidization of single motherhood overall than shaming.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 12:39 PM (NWiLs)

62 Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 12:34 PM (NWiLs)

Haha that's a good one. Thanks!

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 12:40 PM (IYHxL)

63 This kind of thing forces the truth everyone already knows through the wall of lies and self-deception that we can often build around our reason -- usually through emotion. Every abortion activist knows that's an unborn human baby inside the womb. Nobody has a "parasitic lump of tissue" shower for the pregnant woman. They know.

But you can build a clever barrier of lies and clever rhetoric and emotional appeal around that knowledge and for a time fool yourself that what you know to be true, is not true.

Until you hear that heartbeat and what you know breaks through again. Obviously. A baby.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:40 PM (39g3+)

64 You said "master debater".

hee hee.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 28, 2018 12:40 PM (/tuJf)

65

Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 12:38 PM (cgaMS)

LOL yeah it's a boy and we have a name picked out already. I didn't even think of putting the names up for a vote I should have.

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 12:41 PM (IYHxL)

66 My grandma was an unwed mother. I was shocked when I heard that, thinking the village would have banished her, but they didn't. I guess because her social status was so low, the townies gave no shits about what the hillbillies were doing.

Posted by: kallisto at January 28, 2018 12:42 PM (mogRH)

67 50: And that's what used to happen to some degree. Girls who "went to live with and help an aunt in Ohio", as we used to say in Michigan when a girl left school to have her baby and place it for adoption, were not ostracized or socially demolished when they came back to school. That was Michigan in the early 70s, though, and I don't know if the schools, euphemistically called "aunt in Ohio" (largely Catholic) still exist

Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 12:42 PM (5gaNQ)

68 Yes and yes. All disagreement with leftist orthodoxy is labeled as some species of hate, typically denoted as an "ism" or a "phobia": racism, sexism, white supremacism, homophobia, transphobia, Islamophobia, xenophobia. It's all part of controlling language and thought, and using intimidation and emotional manipulation to silence disagreement.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 12:32 PM (NWiLs)

Then you got people like me that just looks them in the eye and says fuck you blow me bitch.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Divison at January 28, 2018 12:42 PM (aMlLZ)

69 What those Chilean mothers-to-be did was absolutely brilliant. May our Right To Life marchers take copious notes.

Posted by: RickZ at January 28, 2018 12:42 PM (4NXhx)

70 Should we suggest names for thathalfrican? Even though he didn't ask, that has never stopped anyone before.

Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 12:42 PM (cgaMS)

71 Funny, it's widely known that conservative men detest strong women. Why do I feel awed, respectful, and humbled to see these committed women in that video?

Posted by: RM at January 28, 2018 12:43 PM (U3LtS)

72 Aside from the red dress, Dana L. lost ne when she began pimping beet juice. Did you know just one glass a day can cure every disease? It's true. CALL NOW!!

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 12:43 PM (g2PE8)

73 You almost make it sound like the baby just showed up out of nowhere in her uterus one day. Unless she was raped, she wasn't just a passive observer in the whole getting pregnant thing.

Clearly she knew what she was doing, but there's always that hope it won't end up with a baby, and when you get to a certain point, all reason goes astray and you go "who cares whee!!!!!!!" Then later on, when you miss that period for 6 weeks and the doctor confirms your fear... that's another place entirely. Especially if you're 15 years old.

Society may not condemn single moms, but single moms are severely limited in their options economically, and many times family and parents are very very condemning of getting pregnant, particularly younger girls. And what may seem not so bad to a 50 year old, looms so big its impossible to get around as a teenage girl.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:43 PM (39g3+)

74 Until you hear that heartbeat and what you know breaks through again. Obviously. A baby.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:40 PM (39g3+)

Yet another example of the human malaise of "wishful thinking". Basically, a fetus is a human if the mother wishes it to be, and a disposable clump of cells if not. As if the actual ontological substance of the fetus changes by the performative will of the mother (or the abortion activist).

"This life only has value if I deem it has value."

Gee. Where else has that line of reasoning popped up in human philosophy?

Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 28, 2018 12:43 PM (T28di)

75 Basic moral intuitions are not open to rational debate, because they can't be. They are intuitions (not emotions) about goodness and evil. Axioms of moral truth, not theorems. The truth of moral intuitions must be asserted and defended as basic moral truths, not neglected, belittled or rationalised away. The only thing that is up for debate is how to balance countervailing moral obligations.
Posted by: Alcoholic Asshole Shut In at January 28, 2018 12:32 PM (CPk0

Some things are hard wired into the Base programming of our brains.

We can overcome it... through rational thought, or delusion... but that base programming remains...

Which is why you hear the Feminists bitching they 'can't find a real Man'...

And why even though its supposedly Men through the Patriarchy that created completion... Women are more viciously competitive then Men very often...

This is another hard wired thing... protecting the young... 'most' people will respond...

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 28, 2018 12:44 PM (NgKpN)

76 Jack Nicholson and Eric Clapton were both raised to think that their Grandmas were their Moms, and their actual Moms were older sisters.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 28, 2018 12:44 PM (pV/54)

77 LOL yeah it's a boy and we have a name picked out already. I didn't even think of putting the names up for a vote I should have.
Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 12:41 PM (IYHxL)

Oh gawd no. I can't imagine what some people would say. It may scar you for life.

But how wonderful...a little boy. I think all men secretly want a son. But I could be wrong.

Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 12:44 PM (cgaMS)

78 And why even though its supposedly Men through the Patriarchy that created completion... Women are more viciously competitive then Men very often...

This is another hard wired thing... protecting the young... 'most' people will respond...
Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 28, 2018 12:44 PM (NgKpN)

dang.... created COMPETITION.... grrrr

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 28, 2018 12:44 PM (NgKpN)

79 46 Emotional appeals do work faster than logical appeals...but there's a drawback: anyone can use them for anything. It's unclear how to gauge the "baby's beating heart" appeal against the "my body, my choice" appeal.
Posted by: Francis W. Porretto at January 28, 2018 12:34 PM (mj4NC)

Yes. On the other hand, I recently saw somebody use "My borders, my choice" against illegal immigration, which I thought was clever.

So far, the Left has been much better than the Right at using emotional appeals. And they work.

Posted by: rickl at January 28, 2018 12:45 PM (sdi6R)

80 Obama's administration said in the end "it" comes down to the barrel of a gun.
What's love got to do with it, it's just a second hand emotion.

They seem to be lost in leftist theology which ends in death and hate. But the gun is to protect life, to protect that which we love. The heartbeat argument is strong, self explanatory. It is a higher "law".

Posted by: illiniwek at January 28, 2018 12:45 PM (bT8Z4)

81 It wasn't a question.

Posted by: TomK at January 28, 2018 12:45 PM (SI1Zu)

82 I can't believe you didn't allow the Horde of the Gross in the Lemon Tree Shame Forest to vote on the names!

=====

I vote traditional. There are all kinds of nicknames out there, but a kid named 'Bitsy' or 'Shawon' has a really rough row to hoe when they grow up. Find a grandparent or two with traditional names (I used both sides of the family) and name in honor. Works like a charm. My kids hated their given names until HS, but post-college they are truly grateful.

Posted by: mustbequantum at January 28, 2018 12:45 PM (MIKMs)

83 Fetus and clump of cells is there way of not acknowledging there is a Human life there.How many people do you know who have had a fetus shower and how many people have asked the expecting ones "Have you picked out any Fetus names yet?"

Posted by: It's me donna at January 28, 2018 12:45 PM (O2RFr)

84 77 LOL yeah it's a boy and we have a name picked out already. I didn't even think of putting the names up for a vote I should have.
Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 12:41 PM (IYHxL)

Oh gawd no. I can't imagine what some people would say. It may scar you for life.

But how wonderful...a little boy. I think all men secretly want a son. But I could be wrong.
Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 12:44 PM (cgaMS)

to follow the naming meme...

HalfMoron?

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 28, 2018 12:46 PM (NgKpN)

85 Then you got people like me that just looks them in the eye and says fuck you blow me bitch.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Divison at January 28, 2018 12:42 PM (aMlLZ)

LOL. Well, yeah. I didn't say it was always effective, just that that's their purpose.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 12:46 PM (NWiLs)

86 Jack Nicholson and Eric Clapton were both raised to think that their Grandmas were their Moms, and their actual Moms were older sisters.
Posted by: Ignoramus at January 28, 2018 12:44 PM (pV/54)

Eric Clapton said it really screwed him up. I imagine it would. Explains Jack Nicholson's relationship with women a bit. I didn't know that about him.

Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 12:46 PM (cgaMS)

87 Almost all of modern abortion advocacy is people who want unlimited sex without consequences, because its the only thing in their lives that chases away the awful emptiness in their souls, if only for a few moments. The fear of pregnancy interferes with this escape, and they want an easy out from that. Its okay, if you get knocked up, just have it hoovered out!

Almost all of it is that attitude, I'm sure of it. They wrap it in all kinds of rhetoric about choice and women's bodies and tyranny and feminism, but ultimately its just wanting to hump without consequence.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:46 PM (39g3+)

88 Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader & Global Rethinker at January 28, 2018 12:47 PM (Lxe59)

89 67. Loretta Young had to visit her aunt in Ohio after filming a movie w/Clark Gable.

Posted by: kallisto at January 28, 2018 12:47 PM (mogRH)

90 87 Almost all of modern abortion advocacy is people who want unlimited sex without consequences, because its the only thing in their lives that chases away the awful emptiness in their souls, if only for a few moments. The fear of pregnancy interferes with this escape, and they want an easy out from that. Its okay, if you get knocked up, just have it hoovered out!

Almost all of it is that attitude, I'm sure of it. They wrap it in all kinds of rhetoric about choice and women's bodies and tyranny and feminism, but ultimately its just wanting to hump without consequence.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:46 PM (39g3+)

----------------------------------

^^^This!

Posted by: Blake at January 28, 2018 12:48 PM (WEBkv)

91 But how wonderful...a little boy. I think all men secretly want a son. But I could be wrong.
Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 12:44 PM (cgaMS)

Nothing secret about it. "May your first child be a masculine child" and all that.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 12:48 PM (NWiLs)

92 Emotional appeals do work faster than logical appeals...but there's a drawback: anyone can use them for anything. It's unclear how to gauge the "baby's beating heart" appeal against the "my body, my choice" appeal.
Posted by: Francis W. Porretto at January 28, 2018 12:34 PM (mj4NC)

The "my body, my choice" appeal is factually inaccurate. The fetus has different DNA than the mother, so the body is not hers, thus the emotional appeal to 'choice' is meaningless.

The beating heart, on the other hand, tells the world in no uncertain terms what is already there.

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader & Global Rethinker at January 28, 2018 12:49 PM (Lxe59)

93 66 My grandma was an unwed mother. I was shocked when I heard that, thinking the village would have banished her, but they didn't. I guess because her social status was so low, the townies gave no shits about what the hillbillies were doing.
Posted by: kallisto at January 28, 2018 12:42 PM (mogRH)

Yup... its the upper classes that get protective... because there its about protecting property from someone else's progeny...

My GrandFather's Second Wife, had been Lithuanian Nobility pre WW1... but got shipped off to America after she became pregnant with a married Man's child...

PS... she was a HOOT.... a real pistol of a Lady...

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 28, 2018 12:49 PM (NgKpN)

94 thathalfrican, Congratulations! Prayers for the baby, mother, and you.

Posted by: Mrs. JTB at January 28, 2018 12:49 PM (V+03K)

95 Nothing secret about it. "May your first child be a masculine child" and all that.
Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 12:48 PM (NWiLs)

I never heard that adage before.

Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 12:50 PM (cgaMS)

96 Maybe Im an odd ball but i secretly wished for daughters and got my wish. And I'm a dewd.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 12:50 PM (g2PE8)

97 95
Nothing secret about it. "May your first child be a masculine child" and all that.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 12:48 PM (NWiLs)

I never heard that adage before.

The Godfather

Posted by: It's me donna at January 28, 2018 12:51 PM (O2RFr)

98 95 Nothing secret about it. "May your first child be a masculine child" and all that.
Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 12:48 PM (NWiLs)

I never heard that adage before.

Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 12:50 PM (cgaMS)

You never watched The Godfather?!

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 12:51 PM (NWiLs)

99 You almost make it sound like the baby just showed up out of nowhere in her uterus one day. Unless she was raped, she wasn't just a passive observer in the whole getting pregnant thing. Also, I don't think there's a whole lot of stigma, generally speaking, associated with single motherhood any more. There might be enclaves of that, but there's far more celebration and subsidization of single motherhood overall than shaming.
Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 12:39 PM (NWiLs)

It is often the worst of both sides of the divide. A very large proportion of abortions are done on poor black women.

Fact.

Many of these poor black women already have more than one child, and they often have more than one abortion under their belts. So we're already subsidizing every aspect of their "reproduction choices," including dealing with those little monsters, when they grow up into baby and abortion factories, as females, and indiscriminately screwing and gang-banging males.

Yay.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 12:52 PM (Pz4pT)

100 I think most men want a boy to play catch with and teach all the boy stuff they need to know, even if they love and want daughters too.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:53 PM (39g3+)

101 76: Ditto Bobby Darin

Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 12:53 PM (5gaNQ)

102 87 Almost all of modern abortion advocacy is people who want unlimited sex without consequences, because its the only thing in their lives that chases away the awful emptiness in their souls, if only for a few moments. The fear of pregnancy interferes with this escape, and they want an easy out from that. Its okay, if you get knocked up, just have it hoovered out!

Almost all of it is that attitude, I'm sure of it. They wrap it in all kinds of rhetoric about choice and women's bodies and tyranny and feminism, but ultimately its just wanting to hump without consequence.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:46 PM (39g3+)

But if this is the case... then why don't we, on the RIGHT, champion the cause of Free over the counter Birth Control?

AND push for Male Birth control pills (which I think would do more to cut abortion than anything else if properly advertised... ie... Dude, simple choice, the pill or 18 years of child support...).

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 28, 2018 12:53 PM (NgKpN)

103 Almost all of it is that attitude, I'm sure of it. They wrap it in all kinds of rhetoric about choice and women's bodies and tyranny and feminism, but ultimately its just wanting to hump without consequence.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:46 PM (39g3+)

Which is somewhat amusing when you see what some of them women look like. I would say 3/4 of the women's march types are actually just "hopeful".

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Divison at January 28, 2018 12:54 PM (aMlLZ)

104 "Nothing secret about it. "May your first child be a masculine child" and all that."

So that explains the WNBA.

Posted by: Tom Servo at January 28, 2018 12:54 PM (V2Yro)

105 Free?What is free??

Posted by: steevy at January 28, 2018 12:54 PM (LiyEm)

106 AND push for Male Birth control pills (which I think would do more to cut abortion than anything else if properly advertised... ie... Dude, simple choice, the pill or 18 years of child support...).
Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 28, 2018 12:53 PM (NgKpN)

There are some pushing for that but there are huge monied interests fighting tooth and nail against the very notion. Feminist in nature, of course.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 12:54 PM (NWiLs)

107 87 Almost all of modern abortion advocacy is people who want unlimited sex without consequences, because its the only thing in their lives that chases away the awful emptiness in their souls, if only for a few moments. The fear of pregnancy interferes with this escape, and they want an easy out from that. Its okay, if you get knocked up, just have it hoovered out!

Not sure I'd put it like that. Progressives are often people trying to escape their feelings of guilt, inadequacy, and social restriction. In part it's an alienation from familial love and traditional communal identity. So they construct alternate communities, but because they are basically making them up and do not have the usual culturally validating criteria (e.g. tradition, age, external respect, cultural breadth etc.) they aren't deeply satisfying. Just my opinion.

Posted by: Alcoholic Asshole Shut In at January 28, 2018 12:55 PM (CPk08)

108 "It is often the worst of both sides of the divide. A very large proportion of abortions are done on poor black women."

Well duh! What did you think the plan was?

Posted by: Margaret Sanger at January 28, 2018 12:55 PM (V2Yro)

109 You never watched The Godfather?!
Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 12:51 PM (NWiLs)

I did. I didn't understand the big whoop about it, so most lines, or all lines, didn't stick.

Diane Keaton has often confessed that both Pacino and she thought they were making a crappy movie.

Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 12:56 PM (cgaMS)

110
An irrefutable, reality-based, simple "argument" to the "it's just a clump of cells" nonsense.

Brava, ladies.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 28, 2018 12:56 PM (9q7Dl)

111 No complaints about this topic, but I'm waiting patiently for an open thread.

Posted by: rickl at January 28, 2018 12:56 PM (sdi6R)

112 If you're a basically irresponsible person then regularly taking a pill to prevent your being fertile isn't exactly reliable.

Feminists hate male birth control, I suspect, because it takes away a powerful female weapon: she can always skip her pills and get pregnant, unless he's taking them.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:56 PM (39g3+)

113 100

Heh. Well Im not into sports and dont do much "guy stuff", like work on cars or build things. Im still not sure which one is a Plhilips screwdrivet lol.

So guess that's why I didnt want boys

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 12:57 PM (A0RDb)

114 Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 12:44 PM (cgaMS)

Nope that's pretty accurate. Fathers want a son to hand down all sorts of manly things and such.

Now after a father has a son I can easily see them wanting a daughter.

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 12:57 PM (IYHxL)

115 my uncle got his teen girlfriend pregnant and now 50 years and five grandkids later they're still together. I suspect some type of long gun was involved to persuade him though.

Posted by: kallisto at January 28, 2018 12:58 PM (mogRH)

116 115 my uncle got his teen girlfriend pregnant and now 50 years and five grandkids later they're still together. I suspect some type of long gun was involved to persuade him though.
Posted by: kallisto at January 28, 2018 12:58 PM (mogRH)

Nothing wrong with that.

Posted by: Alcoholic Asshole Shut In at January 28, 2018 12:58 PM (CPk08)

117 Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 12:57 PM (A0RDb)

I'm not the most mechanically inclined either but I am sporty and I am working on being more self reliant which, fuck me, is hard!

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 12:59 PM (IYHxL)

118 My grandfather would get very down at times, very sad because of his many burdens. His daughters -- four blonde girls -- would go and sing to him and play music to cheer him up.

I think that would be heaven, myself. Daughters singing to me. Not that they would these days, they'd all be on a phone mom insisted they get.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:59 PM (39g3+)

119 AND push for Male Birth control pills (which I think would do more to cut abortion than anything else if properly advertised... ie... Dude, simple choice, the pill or 18 years of child support...).

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 28, 2018 12:53 PM (NgKpN)

I doubt many males will be all that interested, if what I read is correct.

Cuz the Male Pill keeps you from producing swimmers and no longterm studies thus far.

Maybe in the future, but what they're talking about right now doesn't sound like a winner unless you want to be on the bleeding edge of the spear.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 28, 2018 01:00 PM (9q7Dl)

120 Male birth control doesn't need to be any more complicated than a pair of garden shears.

Posted by: Tom Servo at January 28, 2018 01:00 PM (V2Yro)

121 Posted by: Margaret Sanger at January 28, 2018 12:55 PM (V2Yro)

How you never get attached to the Democrat party is beyond me.

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 01:00 PM (IYHxL)

122 I knew a few girls who "visited the aunt in Ohio", and none of them were socially destroyed, Their lives went on pretty much as planned: went to college, had careers, married had other kids (except for the one who never had another child, she did meet the son she put up for adoption and is very happy and grateful that she made the good choice)

Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 01:00 PM (5gaNQ)

123 Trying to guilt the left ? Good luck with that. Look, if they were OK with abortion after reading about Gosnell's murder mill, they're soul is so shriveled and blackened this won't even make a dent.

Posted by: jsg at January 28, 2018 01:00 PM (/FL4O)

124 Now after a father has a son I can easily see them wanting a daughter.
Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 12:57 PM (IYHxL)

Oh yes, little girls adore their daddies.

And shut up about Freud everyone.

Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 01:00 PM (cgaMS)

125 http://bit.ly/2DJuori

White House Is Pressing for Release of Explosive FISA Memo - Early This Week, Possibly Monday!

Posted by: MISHBOT at January 28, 2018 01:01 PM (y3aQB)

126 Diane Keaton has often confessed that both Pacino and she thought they were making a crappy movie.
Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 12:56 PM (cgaMS)

Because, and this is the m-f'ing truth.. the Keaton/Pacino arc was boring and stupid and unnecessary. What makes the movie great is pretty much everything else.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 01:01 PM (Pz4pT)

127 Their, even.

*holds out hand for Sister Mary*

Posted by: jsg at January 28, 2018 01:01 PM (/FL4O)

128 Speaking of the Democrat party - and I apologize for going OT - but I think we on the right need to agree when the Dems/Leftists talk about systemic racism in America.

When I've gotten into conversations/debates about it I say "I wholeheartedly agree with you, there's systemic racism in America. It comes solely from the Democratic party now what should we do about them?"

That usually leads to red faces.

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 01:03 PM (IYHxL)

129 Oh yes, little girls adore their daddies.

The drawback is, I suspect, that daddy falls head over heels for his little angel and has to hand her off to some loser douchebag.

the Keaton/Pacino arc was boring and stupid and unnecessary.

Yeah I get what they were trying to do, but its strictly fast forward to the good parts.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 01:03 PM (39g3+)

130 OT: This guy thinks people in the military are the "lowest of the low".

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=77403

Posted by: Country Singer at January 28, 2018 01:03 PM (yzxic)

131 I dont care about abortion one way or another. But politically it hurts me since a lot of otherwise moderate or right leaning women are pure D voters because of it. Taxes,guns,immigration,etc is pushed to tjhe left indirectly due to abortion voting centrists.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:03 PM (ucaqj)

132 But if this is the case... then why don't we, on the RIGHT, champion the cause of Free over the counter Birth Control?

AND push for Male Birth control pills (which I think would do more to cut abortion than anything else if properly advertised... ie... Dude, simple choice, the pill or 18 years of child support...).
Posted by: Don Q'Bot

___________

I've never understood why our side is weird on birth control.

I get it, birth control shouldn't be the taxpayers responsibility in a perfect world.

But the alternative is often abortion or a single mom plus a kid on the dole for life.

I have ZERO issue with Medicaid provided birth control. It's like getting upset at what a border wall costs, pennies on the dollar.

Posted by: Apache at January 28, 2018 01:03 PM (uc45P)

133 Feminists hate male birth control, I suspect, because it takes away a powerful female weapon: she can always skip her pills and get pregnant, unless he's taking them.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:56 PM (39g3+)

Basically. It changes the power dynamic on actual reproductive choice to a more equal footing.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 01:04 PM (NWiLs)

134 "the Keaton/Pacino arc was boring and stupid and unnecessary."

It was fine, so long as you included the full context of Apollonia. Remember, Michael never said "I love you" to Kay before he left. And when he came back, without ever telling her about his dead wife in Sicily, and tried to convince her to get back with him, it was the last thing he said; reluctantly. Because it was a lie.

Posted by: Apostate at January 28, 2018 01:04 PM (7d/38)

135 Look, if they were OK with abortion after reading about Gosnell's murder mill, they're soul is so shriveled and blackened this won't even make a dent.

"That was all right wing lies, and besides it was just one crazy outlier, not the abortion industry as a whole and the story was selectively edited by Russian bots and shut up, fascist"
--Leftists

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 01:05 PM (39g3+)

136 Wait, wut?

"The Godfather" *was* a great movie.

Posted by: rickl at January 28, 2018 01:05 PM (sdi6R)

137 Oh yes, little girls adore their daddies.

The funniest thing is watching them working on/practicing/developing their chops at what will become manipulating males in the future.

A Dad is pretty easy for a clever daughter to wrap around her finger.

Mom's get something different from girls.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 28, 2018 01:05 PM (9q7Dl)

138 >>>21 Very brilliant.

Here is a YouTube video I found at the Twitter link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R61umChuNKU
Posted by: rickl at January 28, 2018 12:26 PM (sdi6R)

Thanks, rickl. I had not been able to find that.
"La Voz del Corazón (The Voice of the Heart)"

Posted by: m at January 28, 2018 01:06 PM (W3P1i)

139 The drawback is, I suspect, that daddy falls head over heels for his little angel and has to hand her off to some loser douchebag.

I don't know about handing her off, but sadly daddy's little girl all too often runs after the loser douchebag despite daddy's best efforts.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 01:06 PM (NWiLs)

140 130

All libs think that. Most are smart enough not to say it publicly though.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:06 PM (ucaqj)

141 Diane Keaton was not a good mob wife. WTF was wrong with the Corleones anyway, accepting so many foreigners into their ranks?

Posted by: kallisto at January 28, 2018 01:06 PM (mogRH)

142 I dont care about abortion one way or another.
========================

Me either. It's hard for me to get all worked up about babies being crushed and dismembered and thrown in the medical waste bag.

Posted by: grammie winger is hanging on till Spring Training, at January 28, 2018 01:07 PM (lwiT4)

143 Release the memo and be damned

( my version of print and be damned)

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2018 01:07 PM (aC6Sd)

144 I've never understood why our side is weird on birth control.

I get it, birth control shouldn't be the taxpayers responsibility in a perfect world.

But the alternative is often abortion or a single mom plus a kid on the dole for life.

I have ZERO issue with Medicaid provided birth control. It's like getting upset at what a border wall costs, pennies on the dollar.
Posted by: Apache at January 28, 2018 01:03 PM (uc45P)

It's the age-old economic adage, which just happens to be true: what you subsidize, you get more of.

So the answer, from a libertarian perspective, makes damned good sense. Leave people to do what they damn well please, just don't expect me to do anything to help you do it.

But, and this ALWAYS comes into the debate, we don't get to do that. We get the opposite. We get "I'll do what I want," and we get "and you have to pay for it."

Worst of both worlds.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 01:07 PM (Pz4pT)

145 "A Dad is pretty easy for a clever daughter to wrap around her finger."

Mine keeps trying. Keeps failing. Papa already had sons and is a former spook/attorney. I don't get BS'd or manipulated easily, and standards of familial justice were established before she came along. You punch your brother in the face, again, you get spanked.

Posted by: Apostate at January 28, 2018 01:08 PM (7d/38)

146 Christopher, I'll agree there is an element of "Nooo, can't ruin my or my daughters college education and great career to come, with a bastard child" element to "pro-choice" but a HUGE part of it is racism. Rich white liberals pretend to abhor racism but they are extra fearful of 'feral yutes' and feel that PP is needed to keep that 'feral' population small enough to be contained to the bad side of town.

Of course they do not admit this to themselves, let alone out loud, but deep inside their shriveled black hearts it is the real driver; they know that the bright young daughter, niece, whatever could give the baby up for adoption and have only a small blip in their lives.

Posted by: PaleRider, simply irredeemable at January 28, 2018 01:08 PM (84F5k)

147 137: We sure do

Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 01:08 PM (5gaNQ)

148 132

Amen. Birth control costs like $100 a year. Its peanuts compared to the cost of a lifetime of welfare for an unwanted baby.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:09 PM (ucaqj)

149 I do not avoid women, but I do deny them my essence.

Posted by: jsg at January 28, 2018 01:10 PM (/FL4O)

150 A Dad is pretty easy for a clever daughter to wrap around her finger.

Eh. Some, not others. I'm basically immune to that.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 01:10 PM (NWiLs)

151
The funniest thing is watching them working on/practicing/developing their chops at what will become manipulating males in the future.

A Dad is pretty easy for a clever daughter to wrap around her finger.

Mom's get something different from girls.
Posted by: naturalfake at January 28, 2018 01:05 PM (9q7Dl)

---------------

The drawback is, I suspect, that daddy falls head over heels for his little angel and has to hand her off to some loser douchebag.

I don't know about handing her off, but sadly daddy's little girl all too often runs after the loser douchebag despite daddy's best efforts.
Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 01:06 PM (NWiLs)

It's those middle aged men with daughters that are the hardest to convince that their girls might actually have a strong healthy desire for an alpha male or bad boy.

Dr. Helen was being interviewed about her book "Men On Strike" by Tucker Carlson and two women. The first person to go after Dr. Helen with an attack question? Not the two women, but TuCa, the middle aged dad with 3 daughters.

Posted by: Hands at January 28, 2018 01:11 PM (EzdLW)

152 So the answer, from a libertarian perspective, makes damned good sense. Leave people to do what they damn well please, just don't expect me to do anything to help you do it.

But, and this ALWAYS comes into the debate, we don't get to do that. We get the opposite. We get "I'll do what I want," and we get "and you have to pay for it."

Worst of both worlds.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 01:07 PM (Pz4pT)

except in this instance... Responsible people are already controlling their own reproduction, AND can have lots of sex.

Its the lower echelon of society that is creating the problem.... and guess what.. they are STILL going to have lots of sex... as shown by what is already happening.

To me, this is a case of damage control.

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 28, 2018 01:11 PM (NgKpN)

153 Men get a raw deal on the whole abortion/women's choice dealio. They have no choice aside from abstention -- which is also a woman's choice.

It has really offended me for quite a few years that young women deliberately get pregnant by different men to ensure funding. Across the board, 20% of a man's earnings is garnished and a smart woman will ensure that her children have fallbacks for illness, layoffs, etc. Loved my babysitter as a daughter, but I just can't look at her the same after that explanation.

Posted by: mustbequantum at January 28, 2018 01:11 PM (MIKMs)

154 145 "A Dad is pretty easy for a clever daughter to wrap around her finger."

Mine keeps trying. Keeps failing. Papa already had sons and is a former spook/attorney. I don't get BS'd or manipulated easily, and standards of familial justice were established before she came along. You punch your brother in the face, again, you get spanked.
Posted by: Apostate at January 28, 2018 01:08 PM (7d/3

So she gets one free punch?

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 01:12 PM (NWiLs)

155 "the Keaton/Pacino arc was boring and stupid and unnecessary."
------------------------------
It was fine, so long as you included the full context of Apollonia. Remember, Michael never said "I love you" to Kay before he left. And when he came back, without ever telling her about his dead wife in Sicily, and tried to convince her to get back with him, it was the last thing he said; reluctantly. Because it was a lie.
Posted by: Apostate at January 28, 2018 01:04 PM (7d/3

Meh. I don't think Apollonia was necessary either. Or you could have Michael go to Sicily, marry a girl, have her killed, have him come home and marry a woman like Kay, not for love, but for children and respectability and all that.

But since it was Diane Keaton, the actress, the story had to be more front and center.

No thanks. Not interested.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 01:12 PM (Pz4pT)

156 Being a grandma to a girl is wonderful. We can do hair and nails and ballerina slippers, and read books and color and .....

Being grandma to a boy is harder. The boys want me to jump on the trampoline and wade out into the pond for turtles. The pond is muddy.

Posted by: grammie winger is hanging on till Spring Training, at January 28, 2018 01:12 PM (lwiT4)

157 I don't know about handing her off, but sadly daddy's little girl all too often runs after the loser douchebag despite daddy's best efforts.
Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 01:06 PM (NWiLs)

Are you preparing yourself Mr. Insomniac?

I do love movies where the dad threatens the boy picking his daughter up for a date. We need more of that. Dads know how teenage boys think. One of my favs is in the movie "New in Town". Any Minnesota or hunters or ice fisherman may like it. And it is pretty PG.

It could have been better, but it was filmed during the writer's strike, so that hurt it. Now I re-watch and forward to my fav scenes.

Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 01:13 PM (cgaMS)

158 Maybe Don Vito liked Tom Hagen for his ability to cook the books. He was good PR too since he wasn't one of those negro looking dagns.

Posted by: kallisto at January 28, 2018 01:13 PM (mogRH)

159 I dont care about abortion one way or another.

Meh. Neither do we.

Posted by: Babes In Pieces Parts at January 28, 2018 01:13 PM (Tyii7)

160
Trying to guilt the left ? Good luck with that. Look, if they were OK with abortion after reading about Gosnell's murder mill, they're soul is so shriveled and blackened this won't even make a dent.
Posted by: jsg at January 28, 2018 01:00 PM (/FL4O)

This ^.

Lefties are mostly a lost cause. But you know who can be won with emotional appeals? The middle. Non-politicals.

Posted by: Hands at January 28, 2018 01:14 PM (EzdLW)

161 Its not THAT hard for a guy to avoid getting a woman pregnant. Wear a condom, the odds are very small a pregnancy occurs.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:14 PM (ucaqj)

162 Its peanuts compared to the cost of a lifetime of welfare for an unwanted baby.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:09 PM (ucaqj)

Good to know all those adopted children (like I was) are unwanted and should have been vacuumed out of the womb and sold as spare parts.

Posted by: Country Singer at January 28, 2018 01:14 PM (yzxic)

163 Also, I don't think there's a whole lot of stigma, generally speaking, associated with single motherhood any more. There might be enclaves of that, but there's far more celebration and subsidization of single motherhood overall than shaming.

Much of this is in the cult of the Virgin Mary unfortunately. If there was one doctrine I would scratch out of the catechism it would be this one. If there was one gospel I would boot from the canon it would be saint Luke's, or at least its first few chapters before he gets around to plagiarising Mark.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 28, 2018 01:14 PM (6FqZa)

164 My mom, the eldest daughter-married and working, went home to tell her mom she was going to be a first time grandma, only to be interrupted by her mother ranting about how mom's youngest sister had just broken the news that she was pregnant in high school. Left in tears without breaking the news.

Posted by: Downcast at January 28, 2018 01:14 PM (v2Njf)

165 Not fond of the statues of Joseph looking like a tired and defeated old cuckold, either.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 28, 2018 01:15 PM (6FqZa)

166 I am in awe of the brilliance and simplicity of this demonstration.

This is exactly the kind of pushback that is so sorely lacking in conservative circles. Of course there are exceptions: Dana Loesch is good at it (although that red dress keeps distracting me), and Tucker Carlson is a master debater who can easily eviscerate the left's best talking heads. But those are more intellectual and less emotional. Maybe it is time to examine the emotional appeal as an adjunct to our logic and rational thought.

Posted by: CBD

CBD, I agree -- but the kind of emotion-based protest I visualize is much more sneaky and diabolical.

THIS would be the most devastating antii-abortion "protest" (more like "street theater"):

Gather at least 50 pro-life activists -- the more the better, obviously. They must be TOTALLY dedicated to the cause, willing to sacrfifice their reputations for it, if necessary.

Split the group into about 2/3 vs. 1/3 -- a larger contingent and a smaller contingent. Each contingent has separate training sessions.

The larger ground are going to train at pretending to be racist KKK members or White Nationalists. (Seriously.) They are going to shave their heads, apply fake temporary "tattoos" of swastikas, and in general wear the clothing and appearance of hardcore professional racists. They should spend many hours training how to convincingly ACT like White Nationalists, and always stay in character -- like a "method actor" training for a part in a film.

Next, they should make signs and memorize lines and arguments that they will display and "perform" in public. The signs, chants and arguments will say things like this:

"Margaret Sanger Was Right: We Need to Exterminate the Negro Race."

"70% of Planned Parenthood Abortions Kill Black Babies. Support the White Race, Support Planned Parenthood."

"Abortion = The Solution to the Ni&&er Problem."

"Help Blacks Commit Genocide on Their Own Selves: Keep Abortion Legal!"

"Every Abortion Is One Less Ni&&er."

etc. etc.

(I warned you this was going to be extreme.)

Meanwhile, the smaller contingent wilt train to be pro-life protesters -- i.e. just be their real selves. Make sure to put ALL the minorities and women in your overall group into this contingent. They will make signs and memorize lines and arguments that say things like,

"Save the Children"

"Life Is Love"

etc. etc. -- all the typical "pro-life" messages.

THEN, on the appointed day, first send out the larger contingent, in full neo-Nazi regalia, and have them stand near (but not so near that they violate the "safe zone" laws) a large Planned Parenthood clinic, but with their backs to the clinic. Then they start protesting IN FAVOR of Planned Parenthood.

After about ten minutes, send in the smaller contingent, who will start protesting AGAINST Planned Parenthood.

Needless to say, the two groups will start to get in a scary confrontation, with the KKK defending Planned Parenthood from the pro-life contingent.

Then call every local TV station and every media outlet and "social media influencer" on your list (which you compiled ahead of time).

Let the videos and images go viral.

By "flipping the script" this way, you are making abortion-supporters framed as the right-wing racists, and abortion opponents as the touchy-feely pro-female pr-minority underdogs.

If anything will reach the deepest psyches of the American public, this re-framing would.

But be warned: Members of the larger neo-Nazi contingent might get arrested, and when they do they will have to give their real names. (I warned you this would take total dedication.) And so their reputation might be forever tainted. But if you are truly dedicated to a cause, then it would be worth changing the nation's attitude about abortion.

Posted by: zombie at January 28, 2018 01:16 PM (42M22)

167 Much of this is in the cult of the Virgin Mary
unfortunately. If there was one doctrine I would scratch out of the
catechism it would be this one. If there was one gospel I would boot
from the canon it would be saint Luke's, or at least its first few
chapters before he gets around to plagiarising Mark.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 28, 2018 01:14 PM (6FqZa)
========================

Way before Luke, you got Isaiah to deal with.

Posted by: grammie winger is hanging on till Spring Training, at January 28, 2018 01:16 PM (lwiT4)

168 I do love movies where the dad threatens the boy picking his daughter up for a date. We need more of that. Dads know how teenage boys think. One of my favs is in the movie "New in Town". Any Minnesota or hunters or ice fisherman may like it. And it is pretty PG.

It could have been better, but it was filmed during the writer's strike, so that hurt it. Now I re-watch and forward to my fav scenes.
Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 01:13 PM (cgaMS)

Sadly, you eventually figure out that you only scare away the good ones...

The asshats are not scared of you...

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 28, 2018 01:16 PM (NgKpN)

169
Meh. I don't think Apollonia was necessary either.

My Apollonia was totally necessary. Have you seen her elbows?

Posted by: Zombie Prince Rogers Nelson at January 28, 2018 01:16 PM (EzdLW)

170 Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 01:07 PM (Pz4pT)

except in this instance... Responsible people are already controlling their own reproduction, AND can have lots of sex.

Its the lower echelon of society that is creating the problem.... and guess what.. they are STILL going to have lots of sex... as shown by what is already happening.

To me, this is a case of damage control.
Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 28, 2018 01:11 PM (NgKpN)

You're describing why and how we're held hostage to the worst of both worlds. You aren't really arguing against it being the worst.

So.. if we DID adopt a libertarian approach, within a generation or two, there would be lots and lots fewer poor folk having babies, because it would not be economically feasible to do so.

In the mean time, there'd be more bodies on the streets, and more back alley abortions (with more bodies on the streets).

That's what we're not willing to abide, as a society.

Which is why that other truism is true, but irrelevant: Libertarianism, as economic policy, is absolutely the best possible option. Morally though, we won't tolerate it. Either on the left or the right.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 01:16 PM (Pz4pT)

171 Are you preparing yourself Mr. Insomniac?

Something like that. I always plan for the worst.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 01:16 PM (NWiLs)

172 A psycologist buddy told me that every thing you say and do as the father of a daughter, determines who your son in law will be. And I have that in the back of my mind constantly.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:17 PM (Y9TSo)

173 "So she gets one free punch?"

They all do. I usually don't punish the kids the first time they do something bad (fair notice is integral to justice) unless it's just egregious.

Posted by: Apostate at January 28, 2018 01:17 PM (7d/38)

174 I do love movies where the dad threatens the boy
picking his daughter up for a date. We need more of that. Dads know
how teenage boys think. One of my favs is in the movie "New in Town".
Any Minnesota or hunters or ice fisherman may like it. And it is pretty
PG.

It could have been better, but it was filmed during the writer's
strike, so that hurt it. Now I re-watch and forward to my fav scenes.

Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 01:13 PM (cgaMS)

Now if she has brothers and they don't like the guy, that's something else that is worth paying attention to.

Posted by: Vendette at January 28, 2018 01:18 PM (Ei31x)

175 Grammie winger just get some Wellies to wade into the pond. Blaine’s has good rubber boots too. My grandsons love to cook, they are 3 and 5 and guess who piqued that interest?!

Posted by: Cheriebebe at January 28, 2018 01:18 PM (DAdSz)

176 I have ZERO issue with Medicaid provided birth control. It's like getting upset at what a border wall costs, pennies on the dollar.

Either its unconstitutional and bad economics to fund things for people with federal dollars or it isn't. There's no middle ground for stuff that's cheap and you don't have a problem with.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 01:19 PM (39g3+)

177 Texas Right to Life has a video up about this: https://tinyurl.com/y9fdw585

Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 01:19 PM (FTXAT)

178 zombie, you're right that's extreme

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 01:20 PM (IYHxL)

179 A psycologist buddy told me that every thing you say and do as the father of a daughter, determines who your son in law will be.

You teach your daughter how a man ought to treat a woman through how you treat her and her mom. That's what she'll expect and assume from a guy.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 01:20 PM (39g3+)

180 Why didn't I have 50 more daughters, you might ask?

Posted by: Hillary! at January 28, 2018 01:21 PM (EzdLW)

181 162: God bless your birth mother, you and your parents.

She made the right call. Out of the many depressed post-suicide attempt people I've worked with, the post-abortion ones have always been hard work (not that all post-aborts are depressed), as to come to realize that you killed your child can come with tremendous guilt and self hatred. It is something that can't change and no child is ever really a substitute for another. This is a segment of the major depression group you rarely hear about

Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 01:21 PM (5gaNQ)

182 77 LOL yeah it's a boy and we have a name picked out already. I didn't
even think of putting the names up for a vote I should have.

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 12:41 PM (IYHxL)

What name did you choose?

Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 01:21 PM (FTXAT)

183 17 Maybe this will convince the Sarah Silvermans of the fallacy of their "goo" argument. But then they aren't very smart or open to a challenge from pregnant "haters".
Posted by: CN

They know very well that a fetus isn't just a blob of cells. They use that argument knowing that it isn't true. It's really about convenience. A pregnancy and baby might be inconvenient. They don't want to admit how shallow and self-serving an abortion might be. The "clump of cells" argument is bullshit and they know it.

Sarah Palin had been faced with 2 inconvenient pregnancies, her own with a Down's Syndrome child, and her unmarried, teenaged daughter's. She stood by her principles over convenience.

Posted by: nerdygirl at January 28, 2018 01:21 PM (+lVUW)

184 "Why didn't I have 50 more daughters, you might ask?
Posted by: Hillary! "

Webb Hubbel wised up.

Posted by: Apostate at January 28, 2018 01:21 PM (7d/38)

185 Posted by: zombie at January 28, 2018 01:16 PM (42M22)

You are a fucking genius. Seriously.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 01:22 PM (NWiLs)

186 Wait, what happened to the adult women who want to have children?

Where the fuck am I? Jupiter?

Posted by: Fritz at January 28, 2018 01:22 PM (bJ0w+)

187 Emotional appeals do work faster than logical
appeals...but there's a drawback: anyone can use them for anything. It's
unclear how to gauge the "baby's beating heart" appeal against the "my
body, my choice" appeal.

Posted by: Francis W. Porretto at January 28, 2018 12:34 PM (mj4NC)

I would say that is not unclear at all... it isn't just your body when you are pregnant and murder should never be a legal choice.

Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 01:22 PM (FTXAT)

188 In the mean time, there'd be more bodies on the streets, and more back alley abortions (with more bodies on the streets).

That's what we're not willing to abide, as a society.

Which is why that other truism is true, but irrelevant: Libertarianism, as economic policy, is absolutely the best possible option. Morally though, we won't tolerate it. Either on the left or the right.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 01:16 PM (Pz4pT)

Uh, how does making Birth control easier to get, increase back alley abortions?

I never said make all abortion illegals... I said I don't understand why we are not making it possible to limit it as much as possible...

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 28, 2018 01:22 PM (NgKpN)

189 what the heck

I cant post plain text that I typed myself??

Posted by: grammie winger is hanging on till Spring Training, at January 28, 2018 01:23 PM (lwiT4)

190 Like at the Wimmenz Marches, all of them, with speaker towers same as at a stadium rock concert.

The Wimmenz Marches that were funded by Harvey Weinstein? He still sending them money?

Posted by: nerdygirl at January 28, 2018 01:24 PM (+lVUW)

191 Posted by: jsg at January 28, 2018 01:00 PM (/FL4O)

This ^.

Lefties are mostly a lost cause. But you know who can be won with emotional appeals? The middle. Non-politicals.
Posted by: Hands at January 28, 2018 01:14 PM (EzdLW)

Hey! You know who fits that description perfectly?

Working class white and black people, who were bought and sold into the Democrat Party by unions.

And, funny thing is, they tend to be socially quite conservative already. So, you know, a Party that decided to play up the idea that AMERICAN CITIZENS need to be protected, nurtured, and supported in all the areas that are important to them, like jobs and healthcare and schools and all that other shit... such a Party would probably have such a vast majority for such a long time, they could really get some things done to change all this nonsense we have going on in this country.

I'm looking at you, Republican Party.

Or you could keep doing what you're doing, sucking up to Mexicans and your Chamber of Commerce masters.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 01:24 PM (Pz4pT)

192 That was me, actually.

Posted by: Nick Mason at January 28, 2018 01:25 PM (/qEW2)

193 What if there's just a whirring noise?

Posted by: #RussianBots at January 28, 2018 01:25 PM (FhXTo)

194 Mom would have made a good mob wife. She got offended when she saw the local wiseguys do the perp walk. I used to tell her they were horrible people but she claimed they were nice boys.

Posted by: kallisto at January 28, 2018 01:25 PM (mogRH)

195 179 A psycologist buddy told me that every thing you say and do as the father of a daughter, determines who your son in law will be.

You teach your daughter how a man ought to treat a woman through how you treat her and her mom. That's what she'll expect and assume from a guy.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 01:20 PM (39g3+)

Or she watches her mother treat her dad like shit, throw him out and cuckold him. That can go one of two ways - she follow suit or rebels against the example set for her.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 01:25 PM (NWiLs)

196
Posted by: zombie at January 28, 2018 01:16 PM (42M22)

You are a fucking genius. Seriously.
Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 01:22 PM (NWiLs)

zombie is like Dian Fossey, but with left-wing kook activists instead of gorillas

Posted by: Hillary! at January 28, 2018 01:25 PM (EzdLW)

197 She made the right call. Out of the many depressed post-suicide attempt people I've worked with, the post-abortion ones have always been hard work (not that all post-aborts are depressed), as to come to realize that you killed your child can come with tremendous guilt and self hatred. It is something that can't change and no child is ever really a substitute for another. This is a segment of the major depression group you rarely hear about
Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 01:21 PM (5gaNQ)

+++

I just do not see how anyone ever gets over something like this.

Posted by: washrivergal at January 28, 2018 01:25 PM (tcwn1)

198 152
Its the lower echelon of society that is creating the problem.... and guess what.. they are STILL going to have lots of sex... as shown by what is already happening.

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 28, 2018 01:11 PM (NgKpN)

Stop subsidizing them.

Does that mean poor people will have children that they can't care for, and who will suffer and die as a result?

Yes. Too bad. Not my problem.

Posted by: rickl at January 28, 2018 01:25 PM (sdi6R)

199 Basically it comes down to this. You can't just go around killing people who get in your way.

Posted by: grammie winger is hanging on till Spring Training, at January 28, 2018 01:26 PM (lwiT4)

200
Lefties are mostly a lost cause. But you know who can be won with emotional appeals? The middle. Non-politicals.
Posted by: Hands at January 28, 2018 01:14 PM (EzdLW)

Disagree. Centrist women dont like the idea of being forced into having kids

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:26 PM (9tnMd)

201 Here's another voice that needs to be heard. Daniel Greenfield. An extremely powerful explanation of what is happening to the US.

It's probably been posted before but it should be on a sidebar or maybe even an Ace dissertation.

This Civil War

https://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2018/01/this-civil-war-my-south-carolina-tea.html

Posted by: Pete Seria at January 28, 2018 01:26 PM (2WfB0)

202 /off Hillary pantsuit!

Posted by: Hands at January 28, 2018 01:26 PM (EzdLW)

203 My work still pays dividends. America, when?

Posted by: Pinochet The Great at January 28, 2018 01:26 PM (g4lFK)

204 A psycologist buddy told me that every thing you say and do as the father of a daughter, determines who your son in law will be. And I have that in the back of my mind constantly.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:17 PM (Y9TSo)

My sister and I went for totally different kind of men. I think the best thing you can do is love your daughter and teach her self-respect...and get her into sports or a hobby she loves so she doesn't have time to get in trouble.

But there are so many outside forces at play. I think if I was growing up now in the social media age...well, I would have turned out differently. Not sure for the better.

Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 01:26 PM (cgaMS)

205 Something I point out from time to time regarding abortions after the first trimester: it seems that the argument for anything after that is misogynistic. They're basically saying that a woman is incapable of making a major decision in less than three months.

Posted by: Country Singer at January 28, 2018 01:26 PM (yzxic)

206 This is a segment of the major depression group you rarely hear about

I had a girlfriend who went through that. She'd had an abortion when young, and it haunted her ever after. This is why I have sympathy for girls who go through it, sometimes its not just about convenience and being a slut. Sometimes its a stupid mistake that ends in terror and humiliation, and a much, much worse mistake.

A woman that has an abortion doesn't get rid of the pregnancy, it doesn't stop her from being a mother. It simply makes her the mother of a dead child, and the ones with any conscience or heart know this and it is awful for them to live with. Remember Jesus' compassion toward the woman caught in adultery and the woman at the well. Pray for them.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 01:27 PM (39g3+)

207 186 Wait, what happened to the adult women who want to have children?

Where the fuck am I? Jupiter?
Posted by: Fritz at January 28, 2018 01:22 PM (bJ0w+)

They marry a beta chump, get the kids and lifestyle they want, then divorce him and take all his shit.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 01:27 PM (NWiLs)

208 Centrist women dont like the idea of being forced into having kids

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:26 PM (9tnMd)
===================

Forced? That's rape then. Many proposals make an exception for that.

Posted by: grammie winger is hanging on till Spring Training, at January 28, 2018 01:27 PM (lwiT4)

209 197: Some really don't, some join groups that justify their "choices" and shelter under that, I've known of a few who eventually completed a suicide to join "the angel" she had aborted

Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 01:28 PM (5gaNQ)

210
Disagree. Centrist women dont like the idea of being forced into having kids
Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:26 PM (9tnMd)

I wasn't necessarily referring to abortion, but political issues in general.

Also, get-an-abortion / forced-to-have-kids is a false dichotomy.

Posted by: Hands at January 28, 2018 01:28 PM (EzdLW)

211 195 179 A psycologist buddy told me that every thing you say and do as the father of a daughter, determines who your son in law will be.

+++
I can't buy into this quick and easy assessment of your buddy's. Too many other outside influences factor in.

Posted by: washrivergal at January 28, 2018 01:28 PM (tcwn1)

212 Basically it comes down to this. You can't just go around killing people who get in your way.

Mores the pity.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 28, 2018 01:28 PM (WbIyz)

213 Because, and this is the m-f'ing truth.. the Keaton/Pacino arc was boring and stupid and unnecessary. What makes the movie great is pretty much everything else.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 01:01 PM (Pz4pT)

Yiup....I wanted more Sonny kicking ass and shagging whores and more Luca Brasi stomping a mudhole in someone's ass.

Plus Sal Tessio....."Tom, can you get me off da hook, for old times sake?"......

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at January 28, 2018 01:28 PM (EoRCO)

214 199 Basically it comes down to this. You can't just go around killing people who get in your way.

Posted by: grammie winger is hanging on till Spring Training, at January 28, 2018 01:26 PM (lwiT4),

Oh sweetie, there is more than one way to skin a person.

Posted by: Modern Entitled American Women at January 28, 2018 01:28 PM (g4lFK)

215 Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 01:16 PM (Pz4pT)

Uh, how does making Birth control easier to get, increase back alley abortions?

I never said make all abortion illegals... I said I don't understand why we are not making it possible to limit it as much as possible...
Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 28, 2018 01:22 PM (NgKpN)

I never said you said that.

I said, if you subsidize it, you will get more of it.

I then said, totally on the OPPOSITE side of this equation, if you stop subsidizing all the nonsense that is being subsidized now, you will get rid of much of it... within a generation or two. In the mean time, people will suffer, because people are stupid animals, that when you turn off the food pellets, they keep hitting that lever over and over and over until they realize there aren't going to be any more food pellets.

It takes time. So the libertarian argument is economically sound, but the consequence is suffering, until people figure it out.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 01:29 PM (Pz4pT)

216 "Or she watches her mother treat her dad like shit, throw him out and cuckold him. That can go one of two ways - she follow suit or rebels against the example set for her."

Worked out well for me. My wife rebelled against her selfish, abusive freak of a mother and wants nothing more than to be a submissive home-body who bakes, gardens, farms, raises her kids, and tells the world to fuck off.

Posted by: Apostate at January 28, 2018 01:29 PM (7d/38)

217 Disagree. Centrist women dont like the idea of being forced into having kids

They can be convinced that a baby is a living human being no one should murder, though. Nobody forced them to become pregnant.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 01:29 PM (39g3+)

218 You can't just go around killing people who get in your way.

Huh? I don't get it. *hic*

Posted by: Ready For Hillary!!11!! at January 28, 2018 01:29 PM (Tyii7)

219 Mores the pity.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 28, 2018 01:28 PM (WbIyz)
=============
I know, right?

Posted by: grammie winger is hanging on till Spring Training, at January 28, 2018 01:30 PM (lwiT4)

220 "Centrist women dont like the idea of being forced into having kids"

No one is 'forced' to have kids. That's surrendering a false premise to the Left already.

Posted by: Apostate at January 28, 2018 01:30 PM (7d/38)

221 Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 01:21 PM (FTXAT)

Eh, I'm not keen on dropping governments over the innanetz.

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 01:30 PM (IYHxL)

222 206: I pray for the ones who understand that their decision was a permanent solution to a temporary problem and who feel sorrow. I have come to despise the ones who say they are "proud" of their choice.

Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 01:31 PM (5gaNQ)

223 http://bit.ly/2DK7DU1

In Must-See Interview, Trey Gowdy Hints FISA Memo Will Expose Hillary Clinton's TRUE ROLE In Steele Dossier Scandal

Posted by: MISHBOT at January 28, 2018 01:31 PM (y3aQB)

224 I have come to despise the ones who say they are "proud" of their choice.

Their attitude is evil, but perhaps they need prayers more than the others.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 01:32 PM (39g3+)

225 Basically it comes down to this. You can't just go around killing people who get in your way.

Even if there in the left lane going under the speed limit?

Posted by: #RussianBots at January 28, 2018 01:32 PM (FhXTo)

226 130 OT: This guy thinks people in the military are the "lowest of the low".

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=77403
Posted by: Country Singer

It doesn't matter what he does. He's a public school teacher, so he can't be fired or held accountable.

Posted by: nerdygirl at January 28, 2018 01:32 PM (+lVUW)

227 219 Mores the pity.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 28, 2018 01:28 PM (WbIyz)
=============
I know, right?
Posted by: grammie winger is hanging on till Spring Training, at January 28, 2018 01:30 PM (lwiT4)

It's a good thing I don't operate under that premise.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 01:32 PM (NWiLs)

228 Centrist women dont like the idea of being forced into having kids

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:26 PM (9tnMd)
===================

I suspect centrist women, like all women, know how babies are made. Don't want a baby? Don't do the things that will make a baby (because no birth control method except for abstinence is 100% effective). If a baby has been made, that baby then has a fundamental right to his or her own life.

Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 01:32 PM (FTXAT)

229 Telling a 22 year old she has to have a kid if she gets pregnant is not going to bring her to tbe Republican party. You can philosophise all you want about it, but an anti abortion party will not be supported by young, otherwise non political sexually active women.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:32 PM (CEBFb)

230 220 "Centrist women dont like the idea of being forced into having kids"

No one is 'forced' to have kids. That's surrendering a false premise to the Left already.
Posted by: Apostate at January 28, 2018 01:30 PM (7d/3

Agreed. It's a false premise.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 01:33 PM (NWiLs)

231 It's a good thing I don't operate under that premise.

We are Legion.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 28, 2018 01:33 PM (WbIyz)

232 I've known of a few who eventually completed a suicide to join "the angel" she had aborted
=====

Historically we now have more children and babies surviving. I truly think that the much-maligned 'putti' in art was a small consolation. If your baby died, it became an angel -- fat, happy, and mischievous.

Posted by: mustbequantum at January 28, 2018 01:34 PM (MIKMs)

233 A psycologist buddy told me that every thing you say and do as the father of a daughter, determines who your son in law will be.

+++
I can't buy into this quick and easy assessment of your buddy's. Too many other outside influences factor in.
Posted by: washrivergal at January 28, 2018 01:28 PM (tcwn1)

True, my sis and I prove that. However, I would say of all the factors, it is the most powerful one. Society keeps proving that...in homes where the father is absent or abusive. For both boys and girls.

Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 01:34 PM (cgaMS)

234 A psycologist buddy told me that every thing you say and do as the father of a daughter, determines who your son in law will be.

+++
I can't buy into this quick and easy assessment of your buddy's. Too many other outside influences factor in.
Posted by: washrivergal at January 28, 2018 01:28 PM (tcwn1)

Yep. Something I said in the prior thread... lots of psychologists are weenies. An odd combination of understanding human behavior theory to a tee, and having a deep and vast misunderstanding of human beings.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 01:34 PM (Pz4pT)

235 "perhaps they need prayers more than the others."

They laugh at your prayers and spit on your piety. You've a kind heart but some evil cannot be reasoned with, appealed to, or redeemed because it refuses to be.

Posted by: Apostate at January 28, 2018 01:34 PM (7d/38)

236 Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 01:21 PM (FTXAT)

Eh, I'm not keen on dropping governments over the innanetz.

Posted by: thathalfrican - barely posting cuz I'm cuttin' at January 28, 2018 01:30 PM (IYHxL)

Ahhh... cool. Mazel Tov though:-)

Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 01:34 PM (FTXAT)

237 Poor Apollonia. She went BOOM. The hazards of being a mob wife...thank God my boyfriend is a medigon redneck.

Posted by: kallisto at January 28, 2018 01:35 PM (mogRH)

238 You can philosophise all you want about it, but an anti abortion party will not be supported by young, otherwise non political sexually active women.

Often wrong, but never in doubt this guy.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 28, 2018 01:35 PM (WbIyz)

239 229: Very little will convince young millennial women to support the GOP, even if the party was teeming with vile pro-aborts. They are invested in other aspects of politics such as open borders and equal incomes.

Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 01:35 PM (5gaNQ)

240 nood

Posted by: VicBot We still Have No Party at January 28, 2018 01:35 PM (mpXpK)

241 Society may not condemn single moms, but single moms
are severely limited in their options economically, and many times
family and parents are very very condemning of getting pregnant,
particularly younger girls. And what may seem not so bad to a 50 year
old, looms so big its impossible to get around as a teenage girl.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 12:43 PM (39g3+)

You seem to have completely overlooked the option, and it's a very good one, for the pregnant teen to give her baby up for adoption, and thereby bring joy to the life of a childless couple.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 28, 2018 01:35 PM (YA0uK)

242 You can philosophise all you want about it, but an anti abortion party will not be supported by young, otherwise non political sexually active women.
Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:32 PM (CEBFb)

I'm willing to have that Party without them.

Go your own way, little girl. Call me when you grow up.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 01:36 PM (Pz4pT)

243 Telling a 22 year old she has to have a kid if she gets pregnant is not going to bring her to tbe Republican party.

But convincing her that the baby is a living human being and its wrong to kill it, may.

You're pro-abortion, I get it. But your arguments are all presuming that side rather than understanding the basic moral and scientific truth of pregnancy.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 01:36 PM (39g3+)

244 Telling a 22 year old she has to have a kid if she gets pregnant is not going to bring her to tbe Republican party.
===================================

Who in Unholy HELL gives two farts about the Republican Party?? YOU CAN'T KILL PEOPLE.

That's pretty bedrock for a society. I could care less if the Republican Party turns to shit. If I can kill babies, I can kill you. Your life means nothing. NOTHING. Unless life is worth life.

Posted by: grammie winger is hanging on till Spring Training, at January 28, 2018 01:36 PM (lwiT4)

245 It doesn't matter what he does. He's a public school teacher, so he can't be fired or held accountable.

Posted by: nerdygirl at January 28, 2018 01:32 PM (+lVUW)

He's also a city councilman. But it's California, so there's a good chance he gets reelected by a wide margin.

Posted by: Country Singer at January 28, 2018 01:37 PM (yzxic)

246
Telling a 22 year old she has to have a kid if she gets pregnant is not going to bring her to tbe Republican party. You can philosophise all you want about it, but an anti abortion party will not be supported by young, otherwise non political sexually active women.
Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:32 PM (CEBFb)

Which is the point of the Chilean mothers' way of demonstrating. They are not commanding anyone to have a kid if they get pregnant. They are showing that the kid really is a kid. Again, the appeal is to the heart not the head.

Posted by: Hands at January 28, 2018 01:37 PM (EzdLW)

247 You seem to have completely overlooked the option, and it's a very good one, for the pregnant teen to give her baby up for adoption, and thereby bring joy to the life of a childless couple.

Its not me that's over looking it, its the girl trapped in that situation. I am in no way attempting to make an argument for abortion, only for the mindset and the trapped, frightened feeling of a girl in that situation. I'm explaining why I have sympathy for some girls who get abortions, not why I think its a good idea. One can have compassion toward people who do wrong.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 01:37 PM (39g3+)

248 I had a dream once in college...one of those dreams that feel like real life. In the dream I was pregnant, and that is when I knew I could never have an abortion.

I woke up in the morning, realized I was not pregnant, and that it had been just a dream, and I felt such relief I can still remember it like yesterday.

I have only had a few dreams in my life that were that powerful.

Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 01:37 PM (cgaMS)

249 Last Republican to win a majority of votes was Bush in 2004. And before that 1988. Maybe the whole anti abortion thing needs re thinking.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:38 PM (CEBFb)

250 "Telling a 22 year old she has to have a kid if she gets pregnant is not going to bring her to tbe Republican party. You can philosophise all you want about it, but an anti abortion party will not be supported by young, otherwise non political sexually active women."

And, yet, the Republican party is absolutely chock-full of women. It's almost like, political opinions change with age and experience and pandering to the young at the expense of reason and principles doesn't bring eternal success.

Posted by: Apostate at January 28, 2018 01:38 PM (7d/38)

251 Telling a 22 year old she has to have a kid if she
gets pregnant is not going to bring her to tbe Republican party. You can
philosophise all you want about it, but an anti abortion party will not
be supported by young, otherwise non political sexually active women.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:32 PM (CEBFb)

You are underestimating 22 year olds... if they are inclined toward personal responsibility, they are not going to be inclined to kill their children because they are inconvenient. You are also making a huge assumption about the sexual morals of those young women.

Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 01:38 PM (FTXAT)

252 True, my sis and I prove that. However, I would say of all the factors, it is the most powerful one. Society keeps proving that...in homes where the father is absent or abusive. For both boys and girls.
Posted by: Professor Disarray, Gumdrop Gorilla Network at January 28, 2018 01:34 PM (cgaMS)

+++

I do agree that we are witnessing a powerful downfall of society where a two-parent upbringing of children has become a rarity. Both boys and girls have become feral and course as a result.

Posted by: washrivergal at January 28, 2018 01:38 PM (tcwn1)

253 Telling a 22 year old she has to have a kid if she gets pregnant is not going to bring her to tbe Republican party.

Totally missing the point, per usual.

Posted by: Babes In Pieces Parts at January 28, 2018 01:38 PM (Tyii7)

254 Its not me that's over looking it, its the girl
trapped in that situation. I am in no way attempting to make an
argument for abortion, only for the mindset and the trapped, frightened
feeling of a girl in that situation. I'm explaining why I have sympathy
for some girls who get abortions, not why I think its a good idea. One
can have compassion toward people who do wrong.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 01:37 PM (39g3+)

I agree.

Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 01:39 PM (FTXAT)

255 Grammie.
.

I care. Because the gop anti abortion platform leads to more dems getting elexted. Which means more taxes, less gun rights, more illegals, etc.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:40 PM (CEBFb)

256 220 "Centrist women dont like the idea of being forced into having kids"

No one is 'forced' to have kids. That's surrendering a false premise to the Left already.
Posted by: Apostate at January 28, 2018 01:30 PM (7d/3

This. One of the central pillars of the current situation is the idea that kids are some sort of calamity that can strike without warning. Actually there are two aspects to this:

1) Having kids is a horrible thing 'unless you are ready.' Newsflash, most parents I have seen are never ready.

2) Getting pregnant is completely unavoidable.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at January 28, 2018 01:40 PM (ycWCI)

257 224: I'll save my prayers for the ones who suffer pain over their decision, not ones who run around in pussyhats encouraging others to support PP and abortion generally. While some are undoubtedly in denial, many push for more liberalized and "free" abortion. It is up to them to choose redemption...and honestly few of them have religious backgrounds, besides putting up a tree, buying gifts, or lighting a menorah.

Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 01:40 PM (5gaNQ)

258 Last Republican to win a majority of votes was Bush in 2004. And before that 1988. Maybe the whole anti abortion thing needs re thinking.
Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:38 PM (CEBFb)

Right. And that's because of abortion.

Are you paying attention? Did you see this last election?

Wide vast large swaths of this country are perfectly fine with electing a majority in state capitols and Congress, AND voting for an orange haired goofball. In SPITE of this abortion thing.

Hellhole cities and idiot coasts are slitting their own wrists.

Now is not the time to bend over and acquiesce to them.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2018 01:42 PM (Pz4pT)

259 Who in Unholy HELL gives two farts about the Republican Party?? YOU CAN'T KILL PEOPLE.

That's
pretty bedrock for a society. I could care less if the Republican Party
turns to shit. If I can kill babies, I can kill you. Your life means
nothing. NOTHING. Unless life is worth life.

Posted by: grammie winger is hanging on till Spring Training, at January 28, 2018 01:36 PM (lwiT4)

Go, grammie...

Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 01:42 PM (FTXAT)

260 Why do you think single women under 30 vote Dem by 30-40 point margins? Abortion is a huge reason.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:42 PM (CEBFb)

261 "Last Republican to win a majority of votes was Bush in 2004. And before that 1988. Maybe the whole anti abortion thing needs re thinking."

If your understanding of politics is limited to presidencies and abortion, you should stop talking now.

And also realize that you're arguing for murder (note: not arguing that it isn't murder, or that there are edge cases worth considering not-murder, but surrendering the point altogether) because you think it's popular and will get votes, and maybe consider what kind of person that makes you.

It sure makes your nic ironic.

Posted by: Apostate at January 28, 2018 01:42 PM (7d/38)

262 Grammie.

.

I care. Because the gop anti abortion platform leads to more dems
getting elexted. Which means more taxes, less gun rights, more illegals,
etc.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:40 PM (CEBFb)

Moral people do not advocate murder.

Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 01:43 PM (FTXAT)

263 Hmm. Who used to beat this drum all the time?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 28, 2018 01:43 PM (WbIyz)

264 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/957462746060206080
Maybe he is playing 4 dimensional chess

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2018 01:44 PM (aC6Sd)

265 One can have compassion toward people who do wrong.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 01:37 PM (39g3+)

Yes, and I feel very bad for the ones who know the enormity of their "choice". The flippant ones who try to make it "normal" or "brave" are dangerous.

Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 01:44 PM (5gaNQ)

266 Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:40 PM (CEBFb)
==========================

If you're good with babies being dismembered because it might help craft a more appealing Republican platform, then at least I know where you stand.

From here, it looks like you stand with the group that views people in terms of political expediency. There's a name for that. I just won't type it.

Have a great day.

Posted by: grammie winger is hanging on till Spring Training, at January 28, 2018 01:45 PM (lwiT4)

267 Why do you think single women under 30 vote Dem by 30-40 point margins? Abortion is a huge reason.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:42 PM (CEBFb)

No. Being young and stupid... and therefore inclined toward liberalism... is the reason.

Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 01:45 PM (FTXAT)

268 Hmm. Who used to beat this drum all the time?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 28, 2018 01:43 PM (WbIyz)
=====================

Moo-Moo, wasn't it?

Posted by: grammie winger is hanging on till Spring Training, at January 28, 2018 01:45 PM (lwiT4)

269 Hmm. Who used to beat this drum all the time?

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

Posted by: Babes In Pieces Parts at January 28, 2018 01:46 PM (Tyii7)

270 267: I agree, and 22 year old men are not voting dem for abortion, they are voting for free things, and stupidly, because of the "racism" charges against the GOP.

Posted by: CN at January 28, 2018 01:47 PM (5gaNQ)

271 "Abortion is a huge reason."

Academic brainwashing is a huge reason. Also, most of them are black, and blacks routinely vote for Democrats by a 9:1 margin. Selecting a sub-set doesn't prove any general rule about the set.

This is a waste of all our time. You've simply decided you're right, no matter what.

Posted by: Apostate at January 28, 2018 01:47 PM (7d/38)

272
Oh sweetie, there is more than one way to skin a person.

Posted by: Modern Entitled American Women at January 28, 2018 01:28 PM (g4lFK)

----------------

That would be funnier if you used the sock Modern Entitled Ordinary Women.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 28, 2018 01:47 PM (gC2IV)

273
OT, but less than an hour to go in the ROLEX 24 at Daytona.

Yay! Racing season is back...

Posted by: Spun and Murky at January 28, 2018 01:49 PM (4DCSq)

274 Get mad at me all you want. Fact is an entire generation was lost by the gop because of its anti abortion platform. And not a single abortion was stopped in exchange. Its the worst strategy possible.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:50 PM (zEIdm)

275 Get mad at me all you want. Fact is an entire
generation was lost by the gop because of its anti abortion platform.
And not a single abortion was stopped in exchange. Its the worst
strategy possible.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:50 PM (zEIdm)

Yeah, tell me the last time federal law was changed to restrict abortions. The entire "Republicans are going to ban abortion!" tripe is just it, tripe, and demeaning to women because it assumes we only think with our reproductive parts.

Posted by: Vendette at January 28, 2018 01:55 PM (Ei31x)

276 Get mad at me all you want. Fact is an entire generation was lost by the gop because of its anti abortion platform.

Your alternative is to lose 1/3rd of the base, and the activist third at that. The third that got you control of Congress for two decades and the majority of state governments.

I stick with the status quo.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 28, 2018 01:55 PM (WbIyz)

277 Its not me that's over looking it, its the girl
trapped in that situation. I am in no way attempting to make an
argument for abortion, only for the mindset and the trapped, frightened
feeling of a girl in that situation. I'm explaining why I have sympathy
for some girls who get abortions, not why I think its a good idea. One
can have compassion toward people who do wrong.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2018 01:37 PM (39g3+)

She's not "trapped". All she has to do is say, "Well, shit. I got knocked up. Wasn't expecting that, was I? Anyhoo, I will have the baby, and proudly give it up for adoption, and my life will go on."

There's the key: we have to create propaganda that is indeed an honorable thing for an unwed mother to give her child up for adoption, and at the same time to counter this false notion that she is "trapped".

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 28, 2018 01:56 PM (YA0uK)

278 Get mad at me all you want. Fact is an entire

generation was lost by the gop because of its anti abortion platform.

And not a single abortion was stopped in exchange. Its the worst

strategy possible.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 28, 2018 01:50 PM (zEIdm)

Oh, and another thing, a chunk of Gen X, a chunk of Gen Y, and a chunk of the Millenials have been lost to abortion.

Posted by: Vendette at January 28, 2018 01:57 PM (Ei31x)

279 I'll add: Post-Roe v. Wade.

Posted by: Vendette at January 28, 2018 01:58 PM (Ei31x)

280 It's a good thing I don't operate under that premise.
Posted by: Insomniac at January 28, 2018 01:32 PM (NWiLs)

--------------

Preach it!

Posted by: Blake at January 28, 2018 02:00 PM (WEBkv)

281 Skip, about the President's tweet and playing chess----

it's occurred to me that if Pres. Trump offers the DACA people citizenship, some of them might vote Republican. which thwarts the Demons.

possible?

Posted by: booknlass at January 28, 2018 02:03 PM (c2m/9)

282 She's not "trapped". All she has to do is say,
"Well, shit. I got knocked up. Wasn't expecting that, was I? Anyhoo, I
will have the baby, and proudly give it up for adoption, and my life
will go on."

There's the key: we have to create propaganda that
is indeed an honorable thing for an unwed mother to give her child up
for adoption, and at the same time to counter this false notion that she
is "trapped".

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 28, 2018 01:56 PM (YA0uK)

I think mothers should, whenever possible, marry the father of their child. The pair then can raise the child together. That is what is best for the child. Adoption should only happen when neither of the biological parents are capable of raising the child.

Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 02:12 PM (FTXAT)

283 @281 it's occurred to me that if Pres. Trump offers the DACA people citizenship, some of them might vote Republican. which thwarts the Demons.

possible?
--------------------

I scanned through a piece the other day (at American Thinker, iirc) that pointed out that Trump's pathway to citizenship for the Dreamers would require them to not get into any trouble with the law for a good ten (or more) years. And that the people most likely to stick with that were the ones who were most likely to vote for the Republicans.

I've no idea of that's true or not. It might just be an offshoot of what Rubio's been insisting for the last dozen or so years. But it could be true.

Posted by: junior at January 28, 2018 03:09 PM (vfKvW)

284 That is what is best for the child. Adoption should
only happen when neither of the biological parents are capable of
raising the child.

Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 02:12 PM (FTXAT)

I have 2 adopted nephews. Being raised in a stable 2 parent home where they knew they were loved was better for them than being raised by a single mom.

There are people who have a weird prejudice against adoption. I find that attitude narrow and ungenerous. They can not imagine loving and caring for a child who is not of their "blood" and so think others feel the same.

Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V has a shiny new laptop at January 28, 2018 03:25 PM (P8951)

285 BRILLIANT...simply BRILLIANT.....the sound of a baby's beating heart is more powerful than any slogan/sign/argument.

Posted by: bls46 at January 28, 2018 03:53 PM (soxpa)

286 That is what is best for the child. Adoption should

only happen when neither of the biological parents are capable of

raising the child.

Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 02:12 PM (FTXAT)

I
have 2 adopted nephews. Being raised in a stable 2 parent home where
they knew they were loved was better for them than being raised by a
single mom.

There are people who have a weird prejudice against
adoption. I find that attitude narrow and ungenerous. They can not
imagine loving and caring for a child who is not of their "blood" and so
think others feel the same.

Posted by: DonnaV has a shiny new laptop at January 28, 2018 03:25 PM (P8951)

I do not have a prejudice against adoption but I do think adoption should be for the benefit of the child. Sociological research shows the very best place for a child is with the two parents that God gave them to. Adoption and growing up in a single parent household cause about the same harm to children... Yes they survive and most even thrive but it is not optimal for the child involved.

I also think that children have two biological parents and I am disgusted by the way fathers' rights to their own flesh and blood are ignored and actively thwarted by the adoption industry.

Posted by: redbanzai at January 28, 2018 07:21 PM (FTXAT)

287 90 percent of my vote decision. The other 10 ehhh.

Posted by: Margaret Grey at January 28, 2018 08:21 PM (m1jEH)

288 This is why I can never understand how women who have had children can say with a straight face that it's a clump of cells, or that it's just a blob, or that it's not a real baby until the second it passes through the vagina. They know those things are bullshit. They have to. But their own convenience is justification for murder. It really is just evil.

Posted by: Gem at January 28, 2018 08:21 PM (XoAz8)

289 It is reasonable to believe that life begins with the first cell division.

Posted by: BoyNSea at January 28, 2018 10:57 PM (Kh5Q4)

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