Mark Krikorian: The Amnesty Bill Trump Offered Is Fatally Flawed and a Sell-Out on Many Crucial Points

Mark Krikorian is a guy I trust, so if he says this proposal was hot garbage with a side of sell-out the rubes, then it was indeed hot garbage with a side of sell out the rubes.

[T]he issue is the size of the amnesty, or rather the universe of people who would be amnestied. If -- as the White House promised just days ago -- the amnesty were confined to those who now actually have DACA work permits (or even those who had them but didn’t renew), administering the amnesty would be relatively straightforward. All those people are already in the DHS database, and even if they were all re-examined as part of the amnesty process (to weed out the fraudsters that snuck past Obama’s eagle-eyed DHS), it could still be done relatively quickly and with minimal disruption of the work of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, the DHS component that deals with green cards, work permits, and the like.
But going beyond DACA beneficiaries to those who could have applied but didn't is a different thing. It's not just a difference in degree, but in kind. A whole new process will have to be set up for the 1 million additional people who would be expected to apply. The other work of USCIS would grind to a halt, delaying other legal immigration applications, as happened when DACA was originally implemented (and remember that Obama's DACA amnesty was smaller than what Trump is proposing). In addition, there would be an opportunity cost, with USCIS unable to pursue many urgently needed administrative reforms....
Then there's the legal immigration "cuts." The outline says that no new applications for the visa lottery and the chain-migration categories would be accepted, limiting family immigration to spouses and minor children. Great! But it also provides for the continuation of those categories (and reallocation of the lottery visas) until the admission of all 4 million people on the current chain-migration waiting lists. This is the same gimmick that was in the Hagel-Martinez amnesty bill in 2007 -- and the estimate at the time was that it would take 17 years before all those people got their green cards. In other words, legal immigration would not actually be reduced until after President Kamala Harris’s successor took office.
[T]o wait almost two decades before there's any reduction in legal admissions is absurd. First of all, if we're going to amnesty close to 2 million illegal aliens (and maybe more, since past estimates have proven so woefully wrong), that needs to be offset by immediate reductions elsewhere. What's more this would be yet another example of the other side getting what it wants up front, with promises of things we want in the future. As Popeye's friend J. Wellington Wimpy might have said, "I will gladly reduce immigration on Tuesday for an amnesty today."

Well, I've always suspected Trump would be a weak sister on immigration. Yesterday I gave him the benefit of the doubt, waiting for people I trust to weigh in.

Now they've weighed in, and it appears that I won't be trusting Trump -- or even Steven Miller -- on this issue in the future.

Schumer has now rejected this offer, but that doesn't mean that there's no damage done: This offer, as weak as it is, now becomes the negotiating floor for future Democratic demands. This is where we start from -- and God knows where we finish.

See AllahPundit, who turns out to have been right to deem this a sell-out (even if he didn't have the evidence to base that on, his instinct was right), and how the left will likely become more brazen in their insistence that the US is now officially an Open Nation where everyone is a citizen if they want to be.

This weak, concede-everything-up-front-and-beg-for-reciprocal-concessions in seventeen years just about concedes that we are now officially an Open Borders land-space, and no longer an actual sovereign nation.

Posted by: Ace at 05:54 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 first?

Posted by: mallfly the Peach of Hoboken at January 26, 2018 05:55 PM (ILitO)

2 how'd I do dat..?

Posted by: mallfly the Peach of Hoboken at January 26, 2018 05:56 PM (ILitO)

3 NOOD!

Posted by: mallfly the Peach of Hoboken at January 26, 2018 05:56 PM (ILitO)

4 oh boy.

Posted by: mallfly the Peach of Hoboken at January 26, 2018 05:56 PM (ILitO)

5 Devil's in the details.

Posted by: Bosk at January 26, 2018 05:57 PM (fjMEv)

6 Let them stew on it.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 26, 2018 05:57 PM (wdmm9)

7 Corgis stewed.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 26, 2018 05:57 PM (wdmm9)

8 Best outcome: "Screw youse. You turned down that offer, so eat this one - wall, end chain migration, end lottery, and f*** DACA."

Not betting on it, but we can hope. It's just what the D's would do (and are doing right now.)

Posted by: George LeS at January 26, 2018 05:57 PM (+TcCF)

9 Might want to wait and see.

Posted by: kraken at January 26, 2018 05:58 PM (zSVEm)

10 Well, he hasn't officially released his plan yet and there are zero bills being voted on, so I can't pull my support for anything at this time.

Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 05:59 PM (Zz0t1)

11 The deal was offered, and rejected as the equivalent of trump donning khakis and a polo shirt and marching thru the halls of congress with a tiki torch.

What comes next will be far, far less than the original.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at January 26, 2018 05:59 PM (fA1SL)

12 I wouldn't worry to much, The Left is already saying no. As I said yesterday, just like the arabs, they never know when to say yes.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 05:59 PM (SjImc)

13 despair!!!!

Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at January 26, 2018 06:00 PM (hMwEB)

14 What Palpy said.

I'm far more likely to trust Trump's negotiating prowess and judgment than Allahpundit or Krikorian.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:00 PM (xJa6I)

15 So.

Done winning?

Posted by: eleven at January 26, 2018 06:00 PM (+lOpA)

16 *dick punches Trump and walks away*

Posted by: Monk at January 26, 2018 06:00 PM (g4lFK)

17 Don't slash your wrists just yet.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Deplorable at January 26, 2018 06:00 PM (HScFq)

18 Kudos to Rich Zeoli 1210am who said and I quoted him as saying that the Democrats were not going to settle DACA because it was the only thing they have.

Posted by: Skip at January 26, 2018 06:01 PM (aC6Sd)

19 ICE will round up and deport 1000 Dreamers per day until a deal is agreed to.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 26, 2018 06:01 PM (wdmm9)

20 Ohhhhkay

Posted by: steevy at January 26, 2018 06:01 PM (LiyEm)

21 Well, I guess we'll see. I'll keep the lighter fluid and matches on standby for now.

Posted by: Insomniac - mostly stable at January 26, 2018 06:01 PM (NWiLs)

22 Think I'll wait a bit before setting my hair on fire.

Posted by: PugBot Mahon at January 26, 2018 06:01 PM (xPJvm)

23 Hair-on-fire lighters! Get yer hair-on-fire lighters here!

Posted by: rickb223 at January 26, 2018 06:01 PM (aNSOb)

24 I think you're wrong on this. Trump is a master negotiator. This isn't the floor and he won't be offering better terms. He'll be offering less, especially now that Schemer has rejected this first offer.
My guess is that the end result will be better than you think. I'm gonna give Trump the benefit of the doubt here.

Posted by: Carol Katzman at January 26, 2018 06:01 PM (iLb58)

25 Nah bro.

It's not a floor for anything. It was an "offer" and it was rejected.

Reset to zero. It's how negotiating works.

The Donks will counter with "open borders forever" and amnesty forever and all illegals all the time, forever.

Posted by: Deplorable Redneck Russian Botnik at January 26, 2018 06:01 PM (iiixZ)

26 From here on out, the Dreamers are now 1.6 million. Not the 800k we were told just a few days ago.

Also, open to not kicking DREAMERS out, not open to citizenship. Does someone in Trump's world understand that if the DREAMERs were citizens, he would have easily lost to Hillary?

I'd still be down for a deal if it corrects long term structural problems with immigration and went after employers, but I think Trump will give away the farm to pose in front of a wall model (that likely will never be built)

Posted by: Maritime at January 26, 2018 06:01 PM (lKmt3)

27 As I said yesterday, just like the arabs, they never know when to say yes.

A deal too good to accept.

Posted by: DaveA at January 26, 2018 06:01 PM (FhXTo)

28 On a serious note, so far Trump has been exceeding expectations, so I'm not gonna panic yet.

Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at January 26, 2018 06:02 PM (hMwEB)

29 >>>4 What Palpy said.

I'm far more likely to trust Trump's negotiating prowess and judgment than Allahpundit or Krikorian.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards

...

this has been Krikorian's literal single issue for 15 or 20 years, and I don't think you need to be a negotiation wiz to know that when you begin a "negotiation" by giving up 80% of your own points, the "negotiation" that follows is not going to go well for you.

No "negotiation" winds up with terms more favorable to you than your original ask.

The original ask here is weak, and all subsequent negotiation will bring it further left.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:02 PM (8rNrN)

30 Schumer thinks Trump is bluffing with the March DACA deadline. Trump has to be prepared to walk away and let DACA die if he wants to be taken seriously.

Posted by: mark1971 at January 26, 2018 06:02 PM (xPl2J)

31 The biggest problem is that they won't let us see how the sausage is made.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at January 26, 2018 06:02 PM (6Ll1u)

32 Ol' Yeller was screaming about this last night although I have faith in DJT to shove Macy's Christmas tree up Cryin' Chuck Schumer's pansy ass and still say fuck you to the dreamers.

Posted by: Captain Hate at January 26, 2018 06:02 PM (y7DUB)

33 Yesterday I gave him the benefit of the doubt, waiting for people I trust to weigh in.

I weighed in yesterday and warned what a crapfest this was.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at January 26, 2018 06:03 PM (8gDQu)

34 >>> ICE will round up and deport 1000 Dreamers per day until a deal is agreed to. Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 26, 2018 06:01 PM (wdmm9)

They can get that entire quota on one day if they go to the SOTU speech, apparently! Arrest those inside invited by DNC and outside protesting.

Posted by: LizLem at January 26, 2018 06:03 PM (hvf9s)

35 Today Zeoli was saying it was a Jedi mind trick by President Trump, now someone needs to pin the lack of a settlement on the Democrats who are just using 'Dreamer' as pawns

Posted by: Skip at January 26, 2018 06:03 PM (aC6Sd)

36 are you feeling better today, ace?

Posted by: votermom certified russian matryoshka bot at January 26, 2018 06:03 PM (hMwEB)

37 >>>I think you're wrong on this. Trump is a master negotiator.

he's really not. He overpaid for many properties which is what led to his financial woes in the late 80s and through the 90s.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:03 PM (8rNrN)

38
Democrats don't want a deal. They want to use the issue to propel them into taking back the House, taking back the Senate (Insert I have a Dean scream here).

Trump does nothing and wins. He should do absolutely nothing.

Posted by: Acme Trucking Enterprises, White Truck Division at January 26, 2018 06:03 PM (2FqvZ)

39 I mean, seriously. We're supposed to trust the National Review's reporting on Trump???

I'm not trolling here, Ace. But what is YOUR judgement about the deal, the offer and all that.

Frell the weak sisters, look the deal over, weigh it in your head, tell us what you think.

I think it's in imperfect deal and also, since it was rejected, not terribly relevant. Except if you're right and this is the floor for negotiations.

I have a feeling it was the ceiling. After this, Trump will twist harder.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:03 PM (xJa6I)

40 Step one: Build the fucking wall.

Posted by: Fritz at January 26, 2018 06:03 PM (bJ0w+)

41 Also:

Trump > Hillary.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:04 PM (xJa6I)

42 I come from a long line of English Dissenters.
I'm not buying any of this line of crap.

Schumer says he can't negotiate with Trump because Trump is so unpredictable. Hours later, Schumer says Trump as conceded everything and the Democrats have won the argument.

The arguments change hour by hour, reverse themselves, contradict themselves, and falsely accuse Trump of saying something he didn't say.

All Trump has to say is "Build the wall!" and the arguments start all over again.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at January 26, 2018 06:04 PM (O+THj)

43 Now add photo ID as a requirement to vote in federal elections.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 26, 2018 06:04 PM (wdmm9)

44 25 Nah bro.

It's not a floor for anything. It was an "offer" and it was rejected.

Reset to zero. It's how negotiating works.

The Donks will counter with "open borders forever" and amnesty forever and all illegals all the time, forever.
Posted by: Deplorable Redneck Russian Botnik at January 26, 2018 06:01 PM (iiixZ)

And Trump says... OK... status quo, they are illegals... buy bye!

One of the concepts Trump talks about in Art of the Deal, is being willing to just walk away.... and having your opponent KNOW that...

The Dems don't understand that yet...

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 26, 2018 06:04 PM (NgKpN)

45 I like Krikorian but I assumed he would not like any compromise. He is an immigration hawks hawk.

Of course I cannot really judge because I have always thought we should have done the Bush immigration reform 15 years ago.

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at January 26, 2018 06:04 PM (cdYPW)

46 Ive been saying Trump will sell out on immigration. And ive been called a troll or been told to chilax that Trump is a man of his word or whatever.

I wont say told you so but.....

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:04 PM (6zbaQ)

47 Yep, pretty much.

The ridiculous "opening offer" does not *necessarily* become the starting point for future action, but it's a risk. A risk that was in return for nothing.

Trump, and supporters of sane immigration policy, hold *all* the cards here. "Dreamers" are in limbo, starting in 8 weeks. There is no legal, constitutional action Trump can take to help them (that's kinda the whole point of "Congress must fix this").

Of course I understand that (possible) gamesmanship of offer a more-than-reasonable deal, let the Dems walk away from it.

Problem is, that abstract, generic political tactical analysis is garbage, in this particular circumstance.

The electorate is not wound up about "dreamers". The electorate does not like amnesty. The electorate does not want an open, unsecured border. The electorate does not want continued massive *legal* immigration. The electorate does not like the ludicrous abuse of the H1B system.

Anyone recall a recent, brief govt. "shut-down"? Oh yes, yes I do. How did that go? Oh, right. It highlighted, for those unaware, how completely, hopelessly weak and forlorn the Dems are on illegal immigration.

Even assuming a Dem rejection, as has transpired, the offer made no sense.

Don't need to read "Art of the Deal" to know that when you opponents are beleaguered, and the electorate does *not* support their side of it, you go Darth Vader, ask for the moon, and intone "pray I do not alter the deal further".

Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 06:05 PM (QDnY+)

48 Just like Ed Straker at AT and Mark Levin,m Ace is Wrong on this and will have to eat crow when the actual deal gets done. Sad when so many Smart thinkers get schooled by A Dumb guy like Trump isn't it.

Posted by: Rich knudsen at January 26, 2018 06:05 PM (pwDfe)

49 No "negotiation" winds up with terms more favorable to you than your original ask.

Normally yes but we'll see. The list of creditors who wrote PDT new bigger checks is Yuge.

Posted by: DaveA at January 26, 2018 06:05 PM (FhXTo)

50 Where are all these minute details coming from? Where's the Bill? Where's the White Paper (lol) We have Shit Trump Said..... and maybe a whole lot of wishcasting by his opponents....so, sorry, I'm going to stick with a YEAR of Trump not being a "weak sister" on anything as opposed to OMG someone wrote an article that I agree with!

Jumping the gun, that's what that is.

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:05 PM (br2jI)

51 I would at best give them green card status that they can legally stay but never vote and a misstep and their gone

Posted by: Skip at January 26, 2018 06:05 PM (aC6Sd)

52 Up to now we have had reasons for assurance that "The Emperor Will Protect".

Here's hoping that Trump can come back with a better deal on account Schumer has no leverage.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 26, 2018 06:05 PM (6FqZa)

53 I'm open to the idea this is Kabuki to make Democrats look bad, but what would be so wrong with sticking with the same issue that won Trump the election and swept the Rust Belt?

Eventually, people might start believing Trump does want an amnesty just like every other Republican before him.

And offering 1.6 million people CITIZENSHIP really is full retard amnesty. Just like Reagan did, I though we learned that lesson. Once these people can vote, Republicans won't win another nationwide election ever again.

Posted by: Maritime at January 26, 2018 06:05 PM (lKmt3)

54 Is there anything being moved through the house or the senate? That would be what is actually "official". Not to defend the executive, But The executive does not make law. If the Executive wants something done they act within existing authority or they ask for a new law. They ask not tell the house and senate how to vote. Right?

Posted by: USNtakim prfoundly deplorable! at January 26, 2018 06:05 PM (0OmEj)

55 President Trump was just offering this so the Dems would fall all over themselves refusing it.

He likes to fuck with them.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at January 26, 2018 06:06 PM (EoRCO)

56 he's really not. He overpaid for many properties which is what led to his financial woes in the late 80s and through the 90s.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:03 PM (8rNrN)

At 29 you're too young to remember, but by the early 90's the mantra was, ''If you're not going broke in the 90's you didn't try hard enough in the 80's.''

I survived, by the skin of my teeth.

Posted by: Acme Trucking Enterprises, White Truck Division at January 26, 2018 06:06 PM (2FqvZ)

57 The original ask here is weak, and all subsequent negotiation will bring it further left.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:02 PM (8rNrN)

Under ordinary circumstances yeah....But is PDT ordinary? Is he the usual politician? Did he force the dems to fold like a cheap chair on the gov shutdown?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:06 PM (SjImc)

58 Joan Crawford remarked on entertaining at home:

"The best parties are a wild mixture of people. Take some corporation presidents, add a few lovely young actresses, a bearded painter, your visiting friends from Brussels, a politician, a hairdresser, and then toss them all together"

Clearly, that should be updated to include a some undocumented-but-soon-to-be-citizens. Because.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 26, 2018 06:06 PM (ctuyM)

59 Build the wall. Build the wall. The other stuff is complicated and very hard to really enforce as long as the border is open.

Posted by: Hands at January 26, 2018 06:06 PM (EzdLW)

60 Illegals have been competing with my job and a million like me for 25 years, they are winning.

Posted by: Skip at January 26, 2018 06:06 PM (aC6Sd)

61 I truly believe that Trump is going to make the people see that Dems care more about aliens than they do Americans and it's not going to work out well for them in the long run.

Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:07 PM (Zz0t1)

62 I still don't think allahbot shoyuld get any credit, he's declared everything Trump says as a sellout... even if this ends up correct it'd be akin to calling heads over and over again then getting kudos for getting 1 out of 40 right.

Posted by: Inogame at January 26, 2018 06:07 PM (336ZV)

63 It comes down to this...amnesty is instant and cant be undone. Any border security will take years to implement and can be undone with the stroke of a Dem pen or Hawaiian judge.

There is no possible good deal if part of it is amnesty.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:07 PM (6zbaQ)

64 Trump hasn't caved yet, but sure, this is the time. Reckon I'll wait to see it play out.

Posted by: Duke Lowell, not a Russian bot, as far as you know at January 26, 2018 06:07 PM (gC2IV)

65 37 >>>I think you're wrong on this. Trump is a master negotiator.

he's really not. He overpaid for many properties which is what led to his financial woes in the late 80s and through the 90s.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:03 PM (8rNrN)

If Obama can claim to have the most transparent administration evah, without a smidgen of corruption, Trump can have the "Master Negotiator" mantle.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 26, 2018 06:07 PM (wdmm9)

66 29 >>>4 What Palpy said.

I'm far more likely to trust Trump's negotiating prowess and judgment than Allahpundit or Krikorian.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards

...

this has been Krikorian's literal single issue for 15 or 20 years, and I don't think you need to be a negotiation wiz to know that when you begin a "negotiation" by giving up 80% of your own points, the "negotiation" that follows is not going to go well for you.

No "negotiation" winds up with terms more favorable to you than your original ask.

The original ask here is weak, and all subsequent negotiation will bring it further left.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:02 PM (8rNrN)

I guess all I can say is 'wait and see'.

I wasn't wild about the offer. Now that it's rejected, let's see what Trump DOES, not what people say he should do or didn't do.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:07 PM (xJa6I)

67 Some just refuse to see.

Posted by: nip at January 26, 2018 06:07 PM (ECLaL)

68 Damn, ace didn't pull any punches.

Posted by: Ben Rhodes at January 26, 2018 06:07 PM (4e+hS)

69 >>>And offering 1.6 million people CITIZENSHIP really is full retard amnesty.

it's not full-full retard amnesty-- remember, the left wants to amnesty 11 million (or 20 million) people.

but Krikorian brings up a great point that wouldn't occur to any non-expert: the immigration service is basically going to do nothing else for years but process these 1 million new claimants, blocking it from doing any further reforms or enforcement in the interim.

The extra million is not just an extra million, but an opportunity cost of a year or more of the immigration service bascially doing nothing but handing out more amnesties.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:08 PM (8rNrN)

70 At 29 you're too young to remember, but by the early 90's the mantra was, ''If you're not going broke in the 90's you didn't try hard enough in the 80's.''

I survived, by the skin of my teeth.

Posted by: Acme Trucking Enterprises, White Truck Division at January 26, 2018 06:06 PM (2FqvZ)

Yeah. Real estate developers are always going bankrupt. It's part of the business. It used to be directly connected to the interest rates ... but nowadays we don't really have any interest rates, to speak of. The biggest and best developers have pretty much all gone belly up at one time or another.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at January 26, 2018 06:08 PM (8gDQu)

71 he's really not. He overpaid for many properties which is what led to his financial woes in the late 80s and through the 90s.

Posted by: ace

And that was 20 to 30 years ago. I'd like to think he learned.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 26, 2018 06:08 PM (aNSOb)

72 Angst... Edvard Munch...

Posted by: kraken at January 26, 2018 06:08 PM (zSVEm)

73 See Rush Limbaugh for what Trump's offer was really about. He's usually right. He was certainly correct bout the on camera meeting with the Dems a couple of weeks ago.

Posted by: Tuna at January 26, 2018 06:08 PM (jm1YL)

74 Rush keeps saying the only person that can pull Trump's supporters from him is Trump. Failing to be a hawk on immigration issues, DACA, and the wall will do this. I think he knows that, if not he better.

I'm hoping this is just more negotiation kabuki. I keep wringing my hands over Trump, and he keeps actually delivering on the things I most care about. I thought the tax bill was going to be a disaster and it's not. I thought the shut down was going to hurt us, because it always does, and somehow we are for the first time in forever on the winning side of that. I'm cautiously optimistic.

Posted by: LizLem at January 26, 2018 06:08 PM (hvf9s)

75 Make America wet again.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 26, 2018 06:09 PM (IqV8l)

76 >>>>No "negotiation" winds up with terms more favorable to you than your original ask.

Since when? The offer was rejected, so back to the drawing board. Maybe you don't thing so, but I think Trump's going to make up his own mind, not say "Oh, well, people say I can't reduce my offer, guess I can't!"

What the fuck kind of sense does that make?

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:09 PM (br2jI)

77 Sorry Ace you're wrong.

Trump gets what he wants and at the end the other side wonders what the fuck happened.

They should've took the deal. They won't get anything nearly as good for them again.

Somewhere online there's an article floating around about Trump and Mar-a-Lago. Trump wanted the place so he set about getting it. No one thought it would happen. No one who lived in the area wanted Trump around either. I can't remember the specifics of part of the deal, but a couple of wealthy sisters (I think) owned a strip of property or beach either on the property or next to it. Something like that. Trump offered them a lot of money and they turned it down thinking they'd get more. When everything shook out, they got a mere fraction of what he offered at the start. It was something like $20 million to start and they ended up inking the deal for a cool million. I might be wrong with the numbers, but it was a huge drop and frankly hilarious.

Another thing that happened is Trump wanted a huge flagpole and the butthurt commenced pretty quick. They talked to a neighbor who was grumbling about how now that he's president he can have the biggest fucking flagpole in the country if he wants it.

The takeaway though is that Trump just keeps pushing and pushing and pushing and it's just brutal. He exhausts people with the constant pushing and dealing. And he gets what he wants.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 26, 2018 06:09 PM (4ErVI)

78 >>>At 29 you're too young to remember,

you're adorable. I like you.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:09 PM (8rNrN)

79 Anyone who believes they know what Trump will do next are full of shit.

Posted by: Ben Rhodes at January 26, 2018 06:09 PM (4e+hS)

80 51

That will never happen. Todays 20 yo dreamer wont be a non citizen at 70. Courts or a dem president will make sure of that.

Everyone needs to remove the no citizenship amnesty fantasy from their imagination.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:09 PM (6zbaQ)

81 How bout we wait for an actual bill to be signed?

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at January 26, 2018 06:09 PM (6Ll1u)

82
In #TwoWeeks, the government shutsdown again, and this time it will be for longer than a weekend.

Then Trump starts arresting Mayors and Governors of Sanctuary city-states. You want play hardball? Eff it WAR!

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at January 26, 2018 06:09 PM (O+THj)

83 Trump should be held to the fire on this issue and every issue from his base.

Posted by: Monk at January 26, 2018 06:09 PM (g4lFK)

84 60 Illegals have been competing with my job and a million like me for 25 years, they are winning.
Posted by: Skip at January 26, 2018 06:06 PM (aC6Sd)

Maybe you should go down to Mexico and take their jobs. Oh, that's right, the Mexicans will throw you in prison for being illegal.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 26, 2018 06:10 PM (wdmm9)

85 As I said yesterday..

This is no deal.

First of all it went from 800k to 1.8million dreamers a 110pct increase in illeagals.

Second every amnesty we have ever done has resulted in many many more illeagals getting covered as the democratic apparatchiks in the administrative state will generously expand the rules to include more and more.

Thirdly the Wall will never be built as democrat front groups will bring lawsuit after lawsuit and get random Hawaain judge number 4 to shut it down.

And as far as redefining chain migration and ending the lottery thats all well and good but unless we reorient our immigration away from the third world and back towards the first world all this does is buy some time before whites are in the minority.

The vast overwhelming majority of legal immigrants come from Mexico and China so if nothing drastic is done, America will be a Hispano-Asian shithole within 25 years.

Posted by: Kreplach at January 26, 2018 06:10 PM (91fhD)

86 81
How bout we wait for an actual bill to be signed?
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at January 26, 2018 06:09 PM (6Ll1u)

Crazy talk...

Posted by: kraken at January 26, 2018 06:10 PM (zSVEm)

87 but Krikorian brings up a great point that wouldn't occur to any non-expert: the immigration service is basically going to do nothing else for years but process these 1 million new claimants, blocking it from doing any further reforms or enforcement in the interim.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:08 PM (8rNrN)

Of course, the counterpoint is that the INS or ICE or whatever doesn't do much enforcement, to begin with, which is why we're in this situation.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at January 26, 2018 06:10 PM (8gDQu)

88 Isn't this proposal what leftist nutbars on Twitter are referring to as a flaming cross of white nationalism or some such?

Posted by: Insomniac - mostly stable at January 26, 2018 06:10 PM (NWiLs)

89 All that said, I am glad that ace is posting this.

Trump feels the pressure from the antiAmerican Left all the time. He needs to feel it from the proAmerican side.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 26, 2018 06:11 PM (6FqZa)

90 I'm going to put my money down on something here and feel free to chafe me if I'm wrong:

I suspect that after this deal rejection, we see Trump pushing for the 51 + reconciliation. And the bill that gets put forward will be more restrictive of illegal immigrants than this offer was.

Could be wrong but if we're going to gamble, I'm going to put my money there.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:11 PM (xJa6I)

91 He needs to feel it from the proAmerican side.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 26, 2018 06:11 PM (6FqZa)

G-D Bless Stephen Miller and Tom Cotten

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:11 PM (SjImc)

92 Oh,and Allahpundit can go fuck his Humpbot.

Posted by: steevy at January 26, 2018 06:12 PM (LiyEm)

93 I keep saying it but no one acknowledges it so maybe I dreamed it but during the campaign Trump had always indicated he was going to have to compromise on DACA.

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at January 26, 2018 06:12 PM (cdYPW)

94 Trump will not grant amnesty to the "dreamers" without the wall, ending chain migration, the lottery, etc.

He "may" cave on one (or more) but not totally.

I've had to negotiate many a time and congress is much like toddlers. Trump has this. The Donks are on defense bigly.

Posted by: Deplorable Redneck Russian Botnik at January 26, 2018 06:12 PM (iiixZ)

95 I'm ith Rich Zeoli, Democrats can't have DACA settled, not without a total cave by President Trump something like all DACA people are citizens now and nothing else is attached about walls, , chain migration, quotas or E Verify

Posted by: Skip at January 26, 2018 06:12 PM (aC6Sd)

96 immigration service is basically going to do nothing else for years

I would think that's fixable with ordering and more staff.

But it also provides for the continuation of those categories (and
reallocation of the lottery visas) until the admission of all 4 million
people on the current chain-migration waiting lists.

That's a turd that better not get put into the new punch bowl.

Posted by: DaveA at January 26, 2018 06:12 PM (FhXTo)

97 >>>61 I truly believe that Trump is going to make the people see that Dems care more about aliens than they do Americans and it's not going to work out well for them in the long run.

Well that's a mcconnellish thing to do but -- what if the Democrats say yes?

All you need is ten or so to "join with the president" -- like, the ten at-risk red state senators.

So what if the progressive side of the Democrat party says "No" to prove their loyalty to Foreign Americans and then the "moderates" say yes to prove that they can compromise with Trump?

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:13 PM (8rNrN)

98 I want a wall and border security like Israel has.

Posted by: Monk at January 26, 2018 06:13 PM (g4lFK)

99 If Democrats cut a deal, you'll know we got screwed.

They either want the issue to fester or take the whole enchilada. They aren't going to give away the "dream" of 50 states of California for some short term 800k dreamers.

They'll just wait as areas keep turning blue from illegals pouring in. Remember, Nevada, Colorado, California, New Mexico all used to be "Red States". What changed?

If Democrats were smart, they'd give Trump his wall and make him sign on the dotted line, but I think Democrat donors suffer from PDT syndrome to the point they don't even want the wall that will do nothing with the 20-30 million illegals already here.

Posted by: Maritime at January 26, 2018 06:13 PM (lKmt3)

100 neverskankles, nothing has actually happened, unless I missed something, so your ball-spiking seems curious. Or you borrowed ace's time machine.

Krikorian's analysis, as usual, is careful and substantive, and based on a complete knowledge of the topic.

These terms are always more misleading than useful, but in the context of mass illegal migration, "hawk" is especially misleading, in an important way. Securing the border, enforcing the laws internally - that, literally, is the base of the "hawkish maximalist hardliner" position.

Beyond that, we have ending H1B abuse, doing actual immigration reform.

And what matters is that not doing the "hawkish" thing on mass illegal migration has immediate, lasting consequences - as we have seen for 20 years. Reports are that attempted border crossings are back to their pre-Trump levels, after plummeting since he took office.

Would be illegal entrants are paying attention, and are rational. Not something that can always be said even for American "conservatives".

Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 06:13 PM (QDnY+)

101
So what's the alternative that can't be easily pick apart?

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at January 26, 2018 06:13 PM (lKyWE)

102 If the Democrats are in this bind with their base so that they reject this offer then the best thing is to consider it a ceiling and make the next one worse from the Democrats stand point. If they reject again then go harder and give them even less.

Posted by: geoffb at January 26, 2018 06:13 PM (zOpu5)

103 US is now officially an Open Nation where everyone is a citizen if they want to be.
+++++
because democracy, right

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 06:13 PM (V3U1L)

104 >>this has been Krikorian's literal single issue for 15 or 20 years, and I don't think you need to be a negotiation wiz to know that when you begin a "negotiation" by giving up 80% of your own points, the "negotiation" that follows is not going to go well for you.

It's pretty much Miller's singular issue and has been for at least as long if not longer. He is widely despised on the left and even by squishes like Lindsey Graham who calls him "an extremist". Hell, Schumer bragged that he made Trump exclude Miller from their meeting because he was too far right and too rigid.

I think I'll wait on this to see what happens. I have a hard time believing Trump would just unilaterally surrender on this after crushing Schumer with the shutdown over this same issue.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 26, 2018 06:13 PM (/tuJf)

105 you're adorable. I like you.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:09 PM (8rNrN)

*swoon*

Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:13 PM (Zz0t1)

106 the rule of thumb seems to be that the further left you are, the quicker you will make a deal that's bad for America just so you can holler "we made a deal!" Think of Kerry and Iran.

Someone like Graham or McCain would make a gladly make a "pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" deal because they think the Dems will eventually agree to whatever hollow promises they made to get what they wanted up front.

on a scale of 1 to 10, I think (and hope) Trump will be about a 9 on the "if I don't get what I want up front, you get nothing" scale

Posted by: mallfly the Peach of Hoboken at January 26, 2018 06:14 PM (ILitO)

107 the idea that this set the floor for future negotiations sucks. Trump/miller better get around this

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 06:14 PM (V3U1L)

108 My take is that this proposal was larded up and laid in front of the donks so that they would reject it outright, and then when Trump comes back with an even tighter proposal, they will be made to look like imbeciles.

Of course, every time I think donk voters will get the message, they surprise me by being even more idiotic than the last time I thought that.

So, who knows?

Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 06:14 PM (7UW64)

109 The fact is if PDT caves on Caca and Immigration he will lose the base, lose the house and maybe the Senate and be staring Impeachment in the face and I think he knows that. ANd stupid he is not. ( I hope)

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:14 PM (SjImc)

110 Somehow I have to believe PDT is playing the long game.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 26, 2018 06:14 PM (WsqCN)

111 I buy my outrage wholesale at Outrage Outlet and even I can't keep up:

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History at January 26, 2018 06:14 PM (w/e2n)

112 This really bothers me. Aggressive immigration reform was the linchpin of PDT's campaign promises. I recall many of us here saying way before the election that he just can't cave in and water this down. The left knows that unfettered immigration is their golden ticket to the chaos and collapse they desperately crave. Come on, PDT. You're doing pretty damn good so far but this is the proverbial hill to die on.

Posted by: Notorious BotFD at January 26, 2018 06:14 PM (Tyii7)

113 105. Senpai noticed you!

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at January 26, 2018 06:14 PM (fA1SL)

114 And 4 million on the "chain migration waiting list"???

Fuck that, that list just got balled up and tossed into the shitcan...

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:14 PM (br2jI)

115 No way Harris gets past the first round of early primaries.

Posted by: 13times at January 26, 2018 06:14 PM (WHVu+)

116 How bout we wait for an actual bill to be signed?
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at January 26, 2018 06:09 PM

What???? Have you no respect for tradition? This place is all about tradition. There's even a Guide Book(tm) and Standards(tm) around somewhere.

What are you, some kind of anarchist?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 26, 2018 06:14 PM (ctuyM)

117 Getting many or even a few Republicans to put a foot down softly on letting just a smaller number of illegals is going to be tough. Many a Senator loves illegals.

Posted by: Skip at January 26, 2018 06:14 PM (aC6Sd)

118 If only BSG could educate us...

Posted by: kraken at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (zSVEm)

119 >>>It's pretty much Miller's singular issue and has been for at least as long if not longer.

yes but unlike Krikorian, Miller has a boss who might not embarce his priorities.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (8rNrN)

120 I want a wall and border security like Israel has.

Posted by: Monk at January 26, 2018 06:13 PM (g4lFK)

I want a wall and border security like ANY OTHER COUNTRY BUT HERE has.......

Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (Zz0t1)

121 Mexican chicks can be pretty hot.

Posted by: Dick Grinder at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (mbYl0)

122 I will say that if President Trump backs down on pushing for The wall and All that goes with it he will loose a lot of his core support. Its up to congress to get this done though.

Posted by: USNtakim prfoundly deplorable! at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (0OmEj)

123 Why is everyone ignoring the fact that the DACA bullshit is about to be heard in the Supreme Court and it's going to be a 5/4 decision that the whole thing was illegal from the git go.

Posted by: Ben Had at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (HSlUQ)

124 If we're going to continue beating the dead horse of this rejected deal, Imma need some of the backyard potato vodka I got off this Bot friend. Too ennui inducing to face sober.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Deplorable at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (HScFq)

125 this proposal was hot garbage with a side of sell-out the rubes
---
It has been amusing, if sadly so, to see people today simultaneously argue:

1)This is twice as good as the dems had any right to even consider after their shutdown debacle (which ended because the DACA crowd has no support among the American people) and they'd be fools to turn it down
and
2) This is great for us and we need to pass it right now without anyone thinking about it and you're crazypants for asking questions and noticing flaws, and it's what everyone in DC wants to do, so fuck you, shut up, and fall in line.

Posted by: Methos at January 26, 2018 06:16 PM (XQvuQ)

126 All you need is ten or so to "join with the president" -- like, the ten at-risk red state senators.

So what if the progressive side of the Democrat party says "No" to prove their loyalty to Foreign Americans and then the "moderates" say yes to prove that they can compromise with Trump?

Posted by: ace

+++++++++++++
++++++++++

jesus chrust, what if the donks had accepted this deal????????

4th dimensional chess master trump or fucking sell out?

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 06:16 PM (V3U1L)

127 >>> Once these people can vote

Oh they are, trust me. But mostly in blue states. Blanket amnesty allowing them to vote in red states where there is stricter voting laws, flipping those states blue, is the issue.

Posted by: LizLem at January 26, 2018 06:16 PM (hvf9s)

128 123

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that the DACA bullshit is about to be heard in the Supreme Court and it's going to be a 5/4 decision that the whole thing was illegal from the git go.
Posted by: Ben Had at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (HSlUQ)

Kind of busy with waiting for the Great Betrayal...

Posted by: kraken at January 26, 2018 06:16 PM (zSVEm)

129 105 you're adorable. I like you.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:09 PM (8rNrN)

*swoon*

Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:13 PM (Zz0t1)

Oh for Pete's sake, get a room, you two.

Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 06:17 PM (7UW64)

130 It's a setup.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at January 26, 2018 06:17 PM (89T5c)

131
What???? Have you no respect for tradition? This place is all about tradition. There's even a Guide Book(tm) and Standards(tm) around somewhere.

What are you, some kind of anarchist?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 26, 2018 06:14 PM (ctuyM)

Take is easy, Cuomo....

Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:17 PM (Zz0t1)

132 I can't believe that Krikorian thought that this was a serious proposal. Trump knows that Schumer would have had to say no to any proposal, even if Trump offered to amnesty 20 million illegals, because (1) keeping immigration as an unresolved issue is a matter of survival for the Democrats, and (2) there can be no compromise deal with Trump that allows him to be characterized as anything but a racist. So there never has been and never will be any chance of a legitimate deal with the Democrats on immigration, just as there is never going to be any chance of a legitimate peace deal between Israel and the PLO. Instead of falling into the trap of low-balling his immigration proposal so that Schumer could continue to demagogue the Dreamer issue, Trump forced Schumer to reject a deal that was better than the Dems were demanding. Now he gets to spend the next nine months calling Schumer a racist.

Posted by: deskjockey at January 26, 2018 06:17 PM (idzUk)

133 i respect Mr. Krikorian.
he's got a hard-line with respect to this issue.

(as his right)

Posted by: concrete girl at January 26, 2018 06:17 PM (C6eZV)

134 Trump was !literally elected only to build a fucking wall and kick the law breaking illegals out.

Not seek a compromise with Ivanka.

Posted by: Monk at January 26, 2018 06:17 PM (g4lFK)

135 Why is everyone ignoring the fact that the DACA bullshit is about to be heard in the Supreme Court and it's going to be a 5/4 decision that the whole thing was illegal from the git go.
Posted by: Ben Had at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (HSlUQ)

Hey, that's a good point.....

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:17 PM (br2jI)

136 119 >>>It's pretty much Miller's singular issue and has been for at least as long if not longer.

yes but unlike Krikorian, Miller has a boss who might not embarce his priorities.
Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (8rNrN)

True but Krikorian's boss has a vested interest in tearing down Trump and making him look bad.

I know some at NR have cleared their throat and combed the shit and corn nibblets out of their hair, but National Review as a whole I consider untrustworthy.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:17 PM (xJa6I)

137 This is more about the Wall than it is about DACA.

Schumer and the Left say that Trump is illegitimate and insane. They will never act to give Trump his Wall. It'd be a kind of Munich-ean Appeasement, you see. And they know that Trump would jam his Wall up their ass every chance he got.

There's low odds that the necessary ten or twelve vulnerable D Senators will peel off to support Trump's package. Five to seven maybe. EIther way Trump wins.

Once again, Ace shows that he doesn't get Trump.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 26, 2018 06:17 PM (pV/54)

138 Ive stopped caring about a wall tbh. It will be held up in litigation for years, decades even. And the second dems win either house or senate any funding will be cut. It aint happening.

What we beed is chain migration reform. And effective the day its signed not 20 years from now. Everyone already in line...tough shit. The line no longer exists. Try the new merit based line.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:17 PM (NqsHv)

139 Eh, I think this "offering" was done with complete confidence that the Liberal Democrats would say it was "dead on arrival." The ultimate goal being to show the supporters of the "dreamers" and the "dreamers" themselves that the Liberal Dems could give two shits about their predicament...and only care about securing a large new voting base.

Essentially, Trump is going to officially put an offer on the table that would put a lot of immigrant minds at ease and the Dems are going to shut it down hard because it doesn't benefit them personally. It's hard to hide that...and despite how the media spins it...if the issue effects someone very personally they are going to be watching closely.

Posted by: Orson at January 26, 2018 06:18 PM (zsbwK)

140 I don't know Trump is the only guy in Washington DC who actually seems capable of playing 11 dimensional chess.

Is he? Who knows?

Is he listening to Ivanka? Who knows?

Would it surprise me at all if now that the Dims have refused a good offer for them for Trump to say, "Well...I gave the Democrats a chance to participate with a generous offer., and they refused."

"So, now that offer is withdrawn and won't be made again. DACA will run out as it was supposed to do when created by President Obama. Deportation will start in March and it is all due to the Democrats."

"Sad"

No, that wouldn't surprise me at all.

Nor would Trump giving them a purple nurple of a deal, now and say take it or leave it.

People are going to find that not very much changes in their lives when DACA illegals are deported.

Except, of course, where they riot while swinging Mexican flags around and make people glad to see them go.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 26, 2018 06:18 PM (E3rQ4)

141
Oh for Pete's sake, get a room, you two.

Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 06:17 PM (7UW64)

Just jealousy. The one and only time Ace paid any attention to me, I was banned.

Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:18 PM (Zz0t1)

142 >ICE will round up and deport 1000 Dreamers per day until a deal is agreed to.

change "Dreamers" to "sanctuary city politicians and burrocrats"

enforce 8 USC 1324.

Posted by: Grad School Fool at January 26, 2018 06:18 PM (swEzU)

143 again, I like the winning with the economy and shits but this immigration thing is like existential.

I am old enough to remember USA before the great sea change in population. immigration is an eraser. America is being erased so that donks (and progs across the first world) can get thier shitty ideas into law.

at some point, GOP will have to admit to this.

What's scary is even trump admitted that he knew donks were doing this for voters...so why give them amnesty?:

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 06:18 PM (V3U1L)

144 121 Mexican chicks can be pretty hot.

Posted by: Dick Grinder at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (mbYl0)

Yeah you're thinking of the mostly white Mexican weather girls.

We're largely not getting those. We're getting the ones who look like gargoyles.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 26, 2018 06:18 PM (4ErVI)

145 What's a Krirkorian? A kind of roof Korean?

After a year of "OMG, Trump's abouttocave", I'm done with that shiite.

Posted by: Anon a mouse at January 26, 2018 06:18 PM (7LY+6)

146
I see it as Trump has his line in the sand -- the wall -- and the Democrats have their line in the sand -- no wall -- and this is all bukkake theater.

Not going bowling, but I'm not getting upset about it.

I'm a double fence guy, with a road between. Cars zip by every half hour shooting wildly into the air.

Posted by: Acme Trucking Enterprises, White Truck Division at January 26, 2018 06:19 PM (2FqvZ)

147 Nothing's changed, yet... All will be well when, soon, there will be a majority of originalist justices in the Supreme Court!

Posted by: Zettai Roshia-no Botto at January 26, 2018 06:19 PM (e9G8E)

148 142 >ICE will round up and deport 1000 Dreamers per day until a deal is agreed to.

change "Dreamers" to "sanctuary city politicians and burrocrats"

enforce 8 USC 1324.

++++++++++++++

see...if I was a 4th dimensional chess wizard, I'd start negotations with "there are no negotiates, I'm just deporting everyone, everywhere. like Ike did"

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 06:19 PM (V3U1L)

149 OK, we're over 100. File this under But of Course:

A Chicago man accused of sexually abusing three young girls allegedly told police he committed the crimes because he is a boy in a man'e body, the Chicago Tribune reported.

Joseph Roman, 38, faces felony sexual assault charges for allegedly making repeated attacks on three girls ages 6 to 8 years old over a period spanning from 2015 to January of this year, according to the Chicago Tribune. Roman was friends with the girls' families at the time.

During a hearing Wednesday, Roman reportedly admitted to some of the attacks, the report states. He also allegedly told police he is a "9-year-old trapped in an adult's body."

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History at January 26, 2018 06:19 PM (w/e2n)

150 Mexican chicks can be pretty hot.
Posted by: Dick Grinder at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM

Certainly the ones named Felina found in the cantinas of the West Texas town of El Paso.

Posted by: A. Coowboy at January 26, 2018 06:19 PM (ctuyM)

151 but Krikorian brings up a great point that wouldn't occur to any non-expert: the immigration service is basically going to do nothing else for years but process these 1 million new claimants, blocking it from doing any further reforms or enforcement in the interim.

The extra million is not just an extra million, but an opportunity cost of a year or more of the immigration service bascially doing nothing but handing out more amnesties.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:08 PM (8rNrN)

You know... somehow in the 80's, we managed to reconfigure the Navy, build ships, and get combat ready... all at the same time once Reagan was elected.

Why would processing illegals, stop reform? Its not like its the same people doing those two separate tasks.

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 26, 2018 06:20 PM (NgKpN)

152 OT/ It was a great day until the sun went down and now it is like someone threw me into a meat locker in my knickers. I am fvckin' freezing! And it has turned my mood to absolute cranskshit. I think only a super hot shower is going to remedy this state of affairs.

Oh, and Ace made Insta with a read the whole thing on Hill. So behave yourselves.

Posted by: Professor Chaos, Gumdrop Gorilla Channel at January 26, 2018 06:20 PM (qz18B)

153 Why is everyone ignoring the fact that the DACA bullshit is about to be heard in the Supreme Court and it's going to be a 5/4 decision that the whole thing was illegal from the git go.

Posted by: Ben Had at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (HSlUQ)

WHEN are they going to hear it? What if there's LAW in place prior? Then it doesn't mean DICK and someone will have to challenge the LAW in the court. Either way, we're inundated with illegals because they KNOW eventually, they'll get amnesty. Happens every time.

Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:20 PM (Zz0t1)

154 Why is everyone ignoring the fact that the DACA bullshit is about to be heard in the Supreme Court and it's going to be a 5/4 decision that the whole thing was illegal from the git go.
Posted by: Ben Had at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (HSlUQ)

Hey, that's a good point.....
Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:17 PM (br2jI)
-------------

It expires in March anyway, but the larger problem is what to do with them all. Yeah, it's illegal, but here they are.

Posted by: bluebell at January 26, 2018 06:20 PM (kNasr)

155 I will wait and see. We are at the start of the sausage making.

Posted by: Archer at January 26, 2018 06:20 PM (gbWkA)

156 144 121 Mexican chicks can be pretty hot.

Posted by: Dick Grinder at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (mbYl0)

Yeah you're thinking of the mostly white Mexican weather girls.

===============

ya, doo. This is like saying Rakhi Sawant or whoever represents Geetas across India.

Or maybe you think we're importing millions of Louis CK's from MExico too./

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 06:21 PM (V3U1L)

157 >>> Oh for Pete's sake, get a room, you two.
Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 06:17 PM (7UW64)

But no texting via government issued phones!

Posted by: LizLem at January 26, 2018 06:21 PM (hvf9s)

158 >>yes but unlike Krikorian, Miller has a boss who might not embarce his priorities.

True. But I haven't seen Trump weaken on immigration issues in any way since he took office. The Muslim ban fights, big changes at ICE, DOJ and his new fight with sanctuary cities, etc.

I mean Schumer just shut down the government over this issue. He has no hand. Trump has big hand. Why fold now?

Posted by: JackStraw at January 26, 2018 06:21 PM (/tuJf)

159 Trump's initial offer is a carrot.

He is also lining up a bunch of sticks.

Watch the carrot bounce around all over CNN, FOX, and the drive-by's.

Watch the sticks start executing ICE raids on illegals

Both at the same time.

Watch the TV clowns shit bricks on live TV.

"Now, do you want to sit down and negotiate? I have removed my offer, but let's talk".

Didn't ANYONE read "Art of the Deal"?

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at January 26, 2018 06:21 PM (UsCnO)

160 I am one that does not like Trump personally and never have but I will not abandon him if he does not deliver everything I want with immigration reform. I am still looking at the big picture. And besides I have believed that it has been one step forward two steps back for a while now. Trump is just a bigly speed bump.

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at January 26, 2018 06:21 PM (cdYPW)

161 I have this weird faith in Trump. I've been hearing about all the selling out for the past year and yet...

Not saying you're wrong, Ace, or that I have ANY insight. Just so far, Trump's done way better than I expected.

Posted by: moviegique at January 26, 2018 06:22 PM (7zeA4)

162

Hmmm, give this to Laura I., Hannity and Tucker and let them tear it to shreds.

I think watches those shows, at least to some extent.

We need loud voices.

I heard something else about the bill, but I can't remember and now it's TGIF, so who cares for the rest of the night, until Monday.

Enjoy your weekend. Ace just made it hard for some.

Love your family.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at January 26, 2018 06:22 PM (fceHP)

163 Lando CalShumer: This deal keeps getting worse and worse...

Darth Trump: Pray I don't alter it further....

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 26, 2018 06:22 PM (NgKpN)

164 158 Because Ivanka or something.....

Posted by: steevy at January 26, 2018 06:22 PM (LiyEm)

165 >>>>See AllahPundit, who turns out to have been right to deem this a sell-out
.
.
.seriously? a sell out when we don't have any kind of deal and no one has any idea on what Trump would sign if it was put in front of him?

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at January 26, 2018 06:22 PM (+Dllb)

166 It does sound depressing but I will still have hope that Trump does not give in to Schumer et at.

Posted by: IC at January 26, 2018 06:22 PM (a0IVu)

167 Give the commie Fucks something reasonable to reject. Which they are doing. And watch the base go apeshit.

The commies have lost control of their base. DJT knows this. And what Ben Had said.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at January 26, 2018 06:22 PM (89T5c)

168 155 I will wait and see. We are at the start of the sausage making.

Posted by: Archer at January 26, 2018 06:20 PM (gbWkA)

"And she gave the crank,
a terrible yank,
and Dunderbeck was meat."

Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 06:22 PM (7UW64)

169 134 Trump was !literally elected only to build a fucking wall and kick the law breaking illegals out.

Not seek a compromise with Ivanka.
Posted by: Monk

------------------------

this position, which is held by a majority of americans is [insert string of adjectives here] right wing extremism.

also the desires of americans to control thier borders are similarly representative of how normal nations control their borders.

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 06:22 PM (V3U1L)

170 This shows two things:

1. The DACA illegals are fucked - every day passing renders their situation MORE precarious, not less;
2. Conservatives are so accustomed to betrayal that they see it everywhere and all the time.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, 501st Kremlin Jewbot Gvardii at January 26, 2018 06:22 PM (fA1SL)

171 Oh, and Ace made Insta with a read the whole thing on Hill. So behave yourselves.
Posted by: Professor Chaos, Gumdrop Gorilla Channel at January 26, 2018 06:20 PM (qz18B)

Might....be too late for that, now

I hope you get warm, it's cold up here north of Seattle too.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:23 PM (xJa6I)

172 They'll just wait as areas keep turning blue from illegals pouring in.
Remember, Nevada, Colorado, California, New Mexico all used to be "Red
States".

What changed?

================

Have you ever heard of the Motor Voter law?

Hmmmm?

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at January 26, 2018 06:23 PM (UsCnO)

173 Why is everyone ignoring the fact that the DACA bullshit is about to be heard in the Supreme Court and it's going to be a 5/4 decision that the whole thing was illegal from the git go.

Posted by: Ben Had at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (HSlUQ)

Because it does not matter. Everyone pretty much assumes CACA is illegal or if not illegal, since it was an executive action, withing PDT's purview to reverse it. So? The Left wills till demand a "Fix". And so we're back to square one

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:23 PM (SjImc)

174
During a hearing Wednesday, Roman reportedly admitted to some of the attacks, the report states. He also allegedly told police he is a "9-year-old trapped in an adult's body."

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History at January 26, 2018 06:19 PM (w/e2n)

Again, most 9 year old aren't having sex. He shot a little low on the desired age, there. Proving he's FULL OF SHIT.

Shoot him. In the dick. Let it bleed out.

Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:23 PM (Zz0t1)

175 My grandmother was a Kiowa Indian, so we're going to treat illegal aliens different than her? Talk about hypocrites, why not treat them the same?

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at January 26, 2018 06:23 PM (6Ll1u)

176 People are going to find that not very much changes in their lives when DACA illegals are deported.

Except, of course, where they riot while swinging Mexican flags around and make people glad to see them go.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 26, 2018 06:18 PM (E3rQ4)

THIS. FUCKING THIS.

Said it many times. No one outside of a very, very small number of people is going to miss any of these people. I don't know any of these people. They might as well be living in Canada as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, they're living here and living here illegally. They need to go home and use those super special skills to bring Mexico out of the Dark Ages.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 26, 2018 06:23 PM (4ErVI)

177 Also, Ace, if you're still out there (I tweeted this @you on Twitter), who was the guy you pegged as HPL's inspiration? One who did very much the same schtick years earlier?

Posted by: moviegique at January 26, 2018 06:23 PM (7zeA4)

178 Orson (among others) is correct.

Look, have so few here (or in the public world) made a living selling? You've got two parties on the other side, make an offer that you know one of the two will reject. Even better if you can get them to argue while you move on to the next offer...

Posted by: Anon a mouse at January 26, 2018 06:24 PM (7LY+6)

179 More and more, I'm wondering if just keeping as many of these people in limbo as possible is the best we can hope for.

I know illegals vote and use government services, but if they are technically illegal, its a FAR smaller part of the population than it could be.

And no, I don't realistically believe we have the political will for a round up and purge, but maybe keeping huge swaths of the population in the shadows is the next best thing.

Every deal I've seen seems to me to be the End if the Republic, and I'm not using hyperbole. Once you sanctify this, expect a few Hawaiian judges to make sure there's no brakes on who qualifies.

Posted by: Maritime at January 26, 2018 06:24 PM (lKmt3)

180 >>>>but Krikorian brings up a great point that wouldn't occur to any non-expert: the immigration service is basically going to do nothing else for years but process these 1 million new claimants, blocking it from doing any further reforms or enforcement in the interim.

Yeah, this. So this Kirk guy knows for a fact there will be no re-configuration of manpower, no re-allocation of resources to enact whatever changes might be made? The whole world is just a static, 2-dimensional, unchanging photo? What the fuck?

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:24 PM (br2jI)

181 nah, the best bet is to wait until 2018 and hope to get a few more, real GOP senators. replace flake and mccain. maybe grahamnesty retires. who knows.

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 06:24 PM (V3U1L)

182 Trump, and supporters of sane immigration policy, hold *all* the cards
here. "Dreamers" are in limbo, starting in 8 weeks. There is no legal,
constitutional action Trump can take to help them (that's kinda the
whole point of "Congress must fix this").
---
This is the heart of the scam

There is no need at all for any legislative action regarding current illegal aliens. Under current law they must all be deported, and that is exactly what is required of Trump.

You don't get to run as the law and order candidate then relax the law to mimic the preexisting lawlessness *and* maintain any connection to the people that voted for you.

This is an existential problem for the country and it simply cannot be solved if you start by making excuses for what you don't want to do.

Posted by: Methos at January 26, 2018 06:24 PM (XQvuQ)

183 15 yr old shows up at bar self identifying as 25 yr old

Serve or toss ??

Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:24 PM (4u7kU)

184 Lots of odd illogical strategerizing going on here.

Amnesty and DACA are LOSER issues with the electorate. They are potentially DEADLY loser issues for red state Dem senators.

Trump has all the cards on this. Presenting Schumer - following the Dems' humiliating collapse, which for the thousandth time illustrated the weakness of the pro illegal alien position - with a very ambitious starting position would have resulted in:

1) a rejection, just like the actual proposal received
2) a setting of a good top line that actually would receive lots of popular support, of course would reassure/fire up the "base", and provide the script for hammering vulnerable Dems this campaign year

Those imagining somehow that offering a sweet deal to Schumer was needed, or improved Trump's tactical position in any way, or made campaigning against amnesty types easier, just aren't looking at the actual facts of the situation.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 06:25 PM (QDnY+)

185 85 The vast overwhelming majority of legal immigrants come from Mexico and China so if nothing drastic is done, America will be a Hispano-Asian shithole within 25 years.

Posted by: Kreplach at January 26, 2018 06:10 PM (91fhD)

The idea of which has American leftists pissing their pants in glee--all part of the official, "Fuck Whitey!" platform of the Democrat Party.

At any rate, despite being the farthest thing from a Pollyanna, I'm not going to freak out about this at this time. Perhaps later; but, not now.

Posted by: antisocial justice botnik at January 26, 2018 06:25 PM (NL6wI)

186 Certainly the ones named Felina found in the cantinas of the West Texas town of El Paso."

Only if she whirled.

Posted by: Anon a mouse at January 26, 2018 06:25 PM (7LY+6)

187 165

So you think the final deal will be better than Trump's opening bid? Hint: it doesnt work that way. The final deal will be much worse. Maybe 3.5M illegals? Why the fuck not. Just more acts of love.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:25 PM (nMtoT)

188 What Ace said....and a shit ton more!

Drive slowly: Shithole Directly Ahead(the USA y Mexico).

Posted by: Redgrains at January 26, 2018 06:25 PM (WPxnj)

189 make 2018 election a real fight (omg lollololloolll) and use ads portraying the democrats as superleftyextreme open border nutjobs (fuck lololololololozlzllz rotflmao) and win bigly (jesus christ lmfoa)

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 06:25 PM (V3U1L)

190 Did someone sausagefest? Shep!

Posted by: Archer at January 26, 2018 06:25 PM (gbWkA)

191 Build Wall and enforce existing laws.

Stop with this bill of love shit Trump has been talking about.

Posted by: Monk at January 26, 2018 06:25 PM (g4lFK)

192
Hmmm. Mexican weather girls vs. Czech "actresses". That could be fruitful discussion.

Posted by: publius, the Persistent Poperin Pear at January 26, 2018 06:26 PM (8O3HH)

193
Oh, and Ace made Insta with a read the whole thing on Hill. So behave yourselves.
Posted by: Professor Chaos, Gumdrop Gorilla Channel

Toga! Toga!

Posted by: The Horde at January 26, 2018 06:26 PM (EzdLW)

194 The Supreme Court will start accepting motions on Feb 2.

Some fucking Fed Judge is going to throw a wrench in the works until the SC hears this case, so nothing is going to happen before June.

Posted by: Ben Had at January 26, 2018 06:26 PM (HSlUQ)

195 The Chiquita Banana girl had quite the wiggle in her walk:

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History at January 26, 2018 06:26 PM (w/e2n)

196 Left wills till demand a "Fix". And so we're back to square one
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:23 PM (SjImc)

Except, I think, a SC ruling trumps any Dem asshole's "gotta fix it!"

Trump would very much be in the right to point at the SC and say, "Sorry, they have spoken. Sad!"

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:26 PM (br2jI)

197 And lets get real. No daca brats are getting deported. This whole March deadline is bullshit. Anyone think 2m illegals are getting deported on April 1st?

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:27 PM (nMtoT)

198 177 Also, Ace, if you're still out there (I tweeted this @you on Twitter), who was the guy you pegged as HPL's inspiration? One who did very much the same schtick years earlier?
Posted by: moviegique at January 26, 2018 06:23 PM (7zeA4)

Arthur Machen?
or Lord Dunsany?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:27 PM (xJa6I)

199 This is epic bullshit right here. I trust my President. I love my President. He's got this. Nobody outplays him, ever.

Posted by: Peaches at January 26, 2018 06:27 PM (14URa)

200 185 85 The vast overwhelming majority of legal immigrants come from Mexico and China so if nothing drastic is done, America will be a Hispano-Asian shithole within 25 years.

Posted by: Kreplach at January 26, 2018 06:10 PM (91fhD)

The idea of which has American leftists pissing their pants in glee--all part of the official, "Fuck Whitey!" platform of the Democrat Party.

At any rate, despite being the farthest thing from a Pollyanna, I'm not going to freak out about this at this time. Perhaps later; but, not now.
Posted by: antisocial justice botnik at January 26, 2018

maybe at some point, people will have to admit that white people are ok and allowed to exist.

baby steps. because other nations. with their own ethnic make up, seem to have this right.

or, I guess, america is just an open borders place where whatevers. come on in and vote.

but like the kid in Red Dawn said...the differnece is..we live here.

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 06:27 PM (V3U1L)

201 Worst case, Trump made the Reagan Mistake and thought the Democrats were negotiating in good faith. That was a foolish assumption on Reagan's part (and the Gipper admitted as much later). It's hard to imagine Trump making a similar one.

Best case, Trump made the Democrats a generous offer he knew they would refuse. He can now say that he tried to cut a deal, did all he could, and then come at them with one more to our liking.

The President must know if he loses his base then he loses everything. Sell us out and he's an instant lame duck, warming the seat until he loses the next election.

I'm in the 'wait and see' camp. We'll know what's what soon enough.

Posted by: troyriser at January 26, 2018 06:27 PM (raGQi)

202 >>>True but Krikorian's boss has a vested interest in tearing down Trump and making him look bad.

Krikorian's "boss" is his organization, the Center for Immigration Studies. He is on NR only because he speaks for the immigration hawk side of things.

I don't even think NR is his "boss." I think it's just an outlet for him. I don't think they're paying his bills.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:27 PM (8rNrN)

203 >>>How bout we wait for an actual bill to be signed?

True. Bills often get tweaked and modified. Not often in our favor, but still.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at January 26, 2018 06:27 PM (/qEW2)

204 I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it further.

Posted by: Darth Trump at January 26, 2018 06:27 PM (4FqXM)

205 I guess I'm just a chicken little. I don't have a whole lot of confidence in this so-called multi-dimensional chess game. I certainly hope I'm dead wrong.

Posted by: Notorious BotFD at January 26, 2018 06:27 PM (Tyii7)

206
Ivankamnesty

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at January 26, 2018 06:28 PM (k4Ha8)

207 Didn't ANYONE read "Art of the Deal"?

Obviously not enough. This is how one negotiates whilst having the whip hand.

I'd love to play poker with the "intelligentsia"...

Posted by: Anon a mouse at January 26, 2018 06:28 PM (7LY+6)

208

Ivanmesty

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at January 26, 2018 06:28 PM (k4Ha8)

209 176 People are going to find that not very much changes in their lives when DACA illegals are deported.

Except, of course, where they riot while swinging Mexican flags around and make people glad to see them go.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 26, 2018 06:18 PM (E3rQ4)

THIS. FUCKING THIS.

right? no one cares.

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 06:28 PM (V3U1L)

210 >>Build Wall and enforce existing laws.

>>Stop with this bill of love shit Trump has been talking about.

Just out of curiosity, how would Trump do that without negotiating with Democrats in the Senate?

Posted by: JackStraw at January 26, 2018 06:28 PM (/tuJf)

211 Again, most 9 year old aren't having sex.

Not in my experience.

Posted by: the Prophet at January 26, 2018 06:28 PM (6FqZa)

212 I'll hold my despair until something bad happens. Meanwhile, have you all written to your Senators and Representatives and expressed your wishes?

Like God said, I sent you a truck, a boat, and a helicopter...

Posted by: Grump928(C) snorts at January 26, 2018 06:28 PM (WbIyz)

213 191 Build Wall and enforce existing laws.

The proimmies will never allow a wall to be built

Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:29 PM (4u7kU)

214 * 5 minutes too late *

Chucky! No, it's a trap!

Posted by: Admiral Ackbar at January 26, 2018 06:29 PM (4FqXM)

215 One night a wild young cowboy came in
Wild as the West Texas wind
Dashing and daring, a drink he was sharing
With wicked Felina, the girl that I loved

Posted by: Archer at January 26, 2018 06:29 PM (gbWkA)

216 He can now say that he tried to cut a deal, did all he could,"

Someone's getting it...

Posted by: Anon a mouse at January 26, 2018 06:29 PM (7LY+6)

217 Ace falls the trap just like the dumbass Dems. Sad!

Posted by: Snookered at January 26, 2018 06:29 PM (WJy0R)

218 >>> The DACA illegals are fucked - every day passing renders their situation MORE precarious, not less;

NPR had a sob story on the other day about an illegal with a family getting denied by a judge to stay. They interviewed the teenage son, so devastated this was happening, said how is this the american dream? Dad got a lawyer to take up his case and it was overturned because family in Mexico was threatening his life and to kidnap him should he return. So he can stay here legally now. Finally interviewed the dad spared from deportation and he was an english only speaker. *rolls eyes*

I'm normally a huge bleeding heart softie who cries at Hallmark commercials. But instead of feeling for him, all I could think of how selfish are you, that you are the main breadwinner for family and you never straighten out your legal status for their sake? To spare them this eventual turmoil? Also the stupidity of being here as long as he must have been and never learning frikkin' English.

Posted by: LizLem at January 26, 2018 06:30 PM (hvf9s)

219 I don't wear panties, but if I did I would not pee in them right now. Instead I will wait and see. Trump must know that a sell out on immigration dooms reelection in 2020. Be calm, have a glass or 3 of wine and eat some juicy meat with a bright pink center.

Posted by: colfax mingo at January 26, 2018 06:30 PM (C8LGv)

220 the DACA issue doesn't really matter either way.

the point of failure is a lack of action against the organized crime organization of the democong:
harboring illegals
sedition
vote fraud
subversion/corruption of the security community

drop the hammer on them, rip off this scab, pay the price now...

and the DACA issue is a fart on the breeze tomorrow

Posted by: Grad School Fool at January 26, 2018 06:31 PM (swEzU)

221 Except, I think, a SC ruling trumps any Dem asshole's "gotta fix it!"

Trump would very much be in the right to point at the SC and say, "Sorry, they have spoken. Sad!"
Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:26 PM (br2jI)

Not not at all. All this case is about and all the Supreme Court will really rule on is the legality of PDT reversing an existing executive Order, which he does in any normal world. It is not a ruling on the ultimate destiny of the "Dreamers". THAT is a political decision which, as PDT rightfully says, is up to The COngress

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:31 PM (SjImc)

222 The 1.8 million (except for felons and true fuck-ups) were never going to get deported. They're too far down the priority list.

If Trump's deal gets adopted (it most likely won't), they'll be put on a leash. If not, they're back in limbo and it's Schumer's fault.

This whole thing has played out with Schumer putting himself on the horns of a dilemma, and Trump buying winning options which ever way Schumer went.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 26, 2018 06:31 PM (pV/54)

223 202 >>>True but Krikorian's boss has a vested interest in tearing down Trump and making him look bad.

Krikorian's "boss" is his organization, the Center for Immigration Studies. He is on NR only because he speaks for the immigration hawk side of things.

I don't even think NR is his "boss." I think it's just an outlet for him. I don't think they're paying his bills.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:27 PM (8rNrN)

Fair enough.

I'm just shy about NR as a platform. I'd be just as shy if he was saying this on CNN.

I'm not saying Kirkorian is wrong in his analysis of the deal. I do think that the next conclusion, 'Trump is selling us out' IS wrong. Or that's where I'm putting my mental money.

Trump's done pretty well by me so far.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:31 PM (xJa6I)

224 198 177 Also, Ace, if you're still out there (I tweeted this @you on Twitter), who was the guy you pegged as HPL's inspiration? One who did very much the same schtick years earlier?
Posted by: moviegique at January 26, 2018 06:23 PM (7zeA4)

Arthur Machen?
or Lord Dunsany?

Mark--No, it wasn't one I had read before. And it was closer to what we think of as Lovecraftian than even Dunsany.

Posted by: moviegique at January 26, 2018 06:31 PM (7zeA4)

225 Didn't ANYONE read "Art of the Deal"?

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at January 26, 2018 06:21 PM (UsCnO)

No one here did as far as I can tell.

I shouldn't say that, though. This is a bunch of highly read individuals. Maybe it's time for Ace to resurrect his I want to read something let's all read it together and then do a thread on it.

Art of the Deal...go!

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 26, 2018 06:32 PM (4ErVI)

226 210 >>Build Wall and enforce existing laws.

>>Stop with this bill of love shit Trump has been talking about.

Just out of curiosity, how would Trump do that without negotiating with Democrats in the Senate?
Posted by: JackStraw at January 26, 2018 06:28 PM (/tuJf)

By acting like the CIC we elected who is in charge of defending our borders and promised to do so.

Posted by: Monk at January 26, 2018 06:32 PM (g4lFK)

227 I wont say told you so but.....
Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:04 PM (6zbaQ)

And we have been listening to people like you for over a year now telling us that PDT is going to "sell us out"

When's that going to happen mr. expert?

Posted by: Exile at January 26, 2018 06:32 PM (Fikbq)

228 The Krikorian theatre went out of business here.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at January 26, 2018 06:32 PM (6Ll1u)

229 I'm just shy about NR as a platform"

You're kind. I put NR somewhere around The Atlantic. Or the NYT Review of Books...

Posted by: Anon a mouse at January 26, 2018 06:32 PM (7LY+6)

230 Posted by: Archer at January 26, 2018 06:29 PM (gbWkA)

That's one of my favorite songs in all the world!

Posted by: Peaches at January 26, 2018 06:32 PM (14URa)

231 >>>>How bout we wait for an actual bill to be signed?

True. Bills often get tweaked and modified. Not often in our favor, but still.
.
.
.Exactly, we don't even have a friggin bill proposed in the House or Senate but everyone is getting a case of the vapors over what Trump said and assumes he will sell us out to legalize elvently gazallion illegals just to make a deal and cave to schumer?

Does anyone honestly believe Trump would do that?

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at January 26, 2018 06:33 PM (+Dllb)

232 During a hearing Wednesday, Roman reportedly admitted to some of the attacks, the report states. He also allegedly told police he is a "9-year-old trapped in an adult's body."

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History at January 26, 2018 06:19 PM (w/e2n)

Again, most 9 year old aren't having sex. He shot a little low on the desired age, there. Proving he's FULL OF SHIT.

Shoot him. In the dick. Let it bleed out.

-
Once you abandon reality, all things are possible. I, for example, am a velociraptor.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History at January 26, 2018 06:33 PM (w/e2n)

233 THAT is a political decision which, as PDT rightfully says, is up to The COngress
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:31 PM (SjImc)

Ok...then the SC rules it's legal for him to rescind the unlawful DACA EO, Trump does so, then says "I offer you a deal, Congress didn't fix this, so it is done."

Is that possible?

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:33 PM (br2jI)

234 Educated Mexicans speak English.

We get the illiterates.

Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 06:33 PM (7UW64)

235 No one here did as far as I can tell. "

AHEM.

Posted by: Anon a mouse at January 26, 2018 06:33 PM (7LY+6)

236 211 Again, most 9 year old aren't having sex.

Not in my experience.
Posted by: the Prophet at January 26, 2018 06:28 PM (6FqZa)

You're a bad person and that's hilarious.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:33 PM (xJa6I)

237 The only selling out going on here, as far as I can see, is the rooms seling out at the Trump Hotel in DC

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:33 PM (SjImc)

238 I don't believe Trump will cave. A large part of his campaign was about this very issue. Too much water under that bridge.

Posted by: Cheri at January 26, 2018 06:34 PM (JkFpA)

239 >>By acting like the CIC we elected who is in charge of defending our borders and promised to do so.

That's nice. He still needs to get the money from Congress and the only way that is happening is negotiating with Senate Democrats.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 26, 2018 06:34 PM (/tuJf)

240 The two biggest factors in determining who has the upper hand in a negotiation are;

1) Who has time on their side.
2) Who needs the deal to happen most.

The person who has time on their side obviously has the big advantage. The longer the negotiations take place, the weaker their opponents negotiating power becomes.

Whoever needs a deal the most is at an extreme disadvantage. Think of failing CompanyA about to go bellyup unless they strike a merger or buyout deal with CompanyB.

CompanyB, who does not need this deal to go through to survive, can simply wait and squeeze the CompanyA until they get a really low offer. CompanyB, unlike CompanyA, has the power to leave the negations at any time. This puts all of the negotiating power in CompanyB's hands.

Now looking at the Dems and Trump, ask yourself - who has time on their side, and who needs this deal the most. Who would be hurt the least if they simply walked away?

I think the answer is obvious. Trump has the upper hand.

Posted by: JC at January 26, 2018 06:34 PM (mJXUS)

241 I would bet more illegals overstay visas than come over the border

Posted by: Skip at January 26, 2018 06:34 PM (aC6Sd)

242 Does anyone honestly believe Trump would do that? "

Well, let's ask over at Tepid Fume...

Posted by: Anon a mouse at January 26, 2018 06:34 PM (7LY+6)

243 >>> Art of the Deal...go!
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 26, 2018 06:32 PM (4ErVI)

Ha I heard that in a Mark Levin voice.

Posted by: LizLem at January 26, 2018 06:34 PM (hvf9s)

244 Jeebus - did I miss *all* the news about this?

Where in the wide, wide world of sports did anyone get the idea that Schumer rejecting this ridiculously generous opening offer - as he would have surely rejected any offer - will somehow magically make the Dems' dilemma any worse, their internal rift any more acrimonious? That's absurd.

Schumer rejects the offer Trump should make - Dems go apes**t.

Schumer rejects this purported offer - Dems go apes**t.

It's sort of right there in the "news", folks. The rejection was pre-programmed.

So - no conceivable benefit to making a "generous" offer. Simply irrelevant.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 06:34 PM (QDnY+)

245 Dems have all the lawyers on their side. So they know how to write a bill that looks good on the surface but fucks us in the details. This is what Kirkorian is basically saying. Look at the fine print and map out how the butraucracy will respond and these deals are always awful.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:34 PM (0S2ma)

246 Once you abandon reality, all things are possible. I, for example, am a velociraptor.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History at January 26, 2018 06:33 PM (w/e2n)

Well, for heaven's sake, don't eat any proggies.

You'll end up a proggie froggie, jumping all over the place aimlessly and shooting off your mouth with nonsense.

Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 06:34 PM (7UW64)

247 229 I'm just shy about NR as a platform"

You're kind. I put NR somewhere around The Atlantic. Or the NYT Review of Books...
Posted by: Anon a mouse at January 26, 2018 06:32 PM (7LY+6)

Yeah, you just about nailed it. Somewhere between those two publications.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:34 PM (xJa6I)

248 Does anyone honestly believe Trump would do that?
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at January 26, 2018 06:33 PM (+Dllb)

And that is how Trump just keeps things churning..... no one knows what's going to happen (including this Kirk guy)..... so chaos reigns until a good deal can be struck....

THAT seems the most likely scenario here.

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:34 PM (br2jI)

249 239 >>By acting like the CIC we elected who is in charge of defending our borders and promised to do so.

That's nice. He still needs to get the money from Congress and the only way that is happening is negotiating with Senate Democrats.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 26, 2018 06:34 PM (/tuJf)

It's a war zone down there. Declare it as such.

Posted by: Monk at January 26, 2018 06:35 PM (g4lFK)

250 Educated Mexicans speak English.

We get the illiterates.

Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 06:33 PM (7UW64)

That makes it easier for them to plot against us behind our backs, thus feature, not a bug!

Posted by: Hrothgarevitch BOT at January 26, 2018 06:35 PM (gwPgz)

251 You people are en fuego.

Can't keep up.

Posted by: eleven at January 26, 2018 06:35 PM (+lOpA)

252 If this was an over generous initial offer to show the Dems aren't serious in resolving the issue, Trump has some balls and is willing to take some major risks. In some ways, it mirrors his actions regarding the Palestinians. Tell the to negotiate for peace....They don't, cut funding. They still resist, declare Jerusalem Israel's capital. Trump uses the Democrat's one-way ratchet, but tightens the screws to the right.

In the military, we're supposed to give the boss three courses of action. They always warn us not to generate a stupid "throw away" COA to hasten the decision making process, on the off chance the boss picks it. Sending out an overly generous offer like this reminds me of the throwaway COA. Let's complain and make our displeasure be known, but secretly I still trust Trump. I've doubted him before on things, but he's managed to pull through.

Posted by: Grimaldi at January 26, 2018 06:35 PM (4FqXM)

253
Didn't ANYONE read "Art of the Deal"?

Save it for the Sunday Book Thread, bookworm!

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at January 26, 2018 06:35 PM (k4Ha8)

254 Legislative passes to Judicial, Judicial passes back to legislative, legislative Holds, Holds,Holds,
Executive Scores!

Posted by: Ben Had at January 26, 2018 06:36 PM (HSlUQ)

255 "This offer, as weak as it is, now becomes the negotiating floor for future Democratic demands."

No, it doesn't. This was a 'best offer', one we do not want to do, with an expiration date. An offer I think Trump knew they would not take. It demonstrates how hard line their position is. Which means there's no point negotiating. So let's go back to what we really want to do and take it to the voters next Novembet.

Posted by: Otter Stratton at January 26, 2018 06:36 PM (0xXdZ)

256 >>>>Ok...then the SC rules it's legal for him to rescind the unlawful DACA
EO, Trump does so, then says "I offer you a deal, Congress didn't fix
this, so it is done."

Is that possible?
.
.
.That is what I think is going to happen. schumer can't afford to make a deal with Trump that Trump will actually sign or he will literally lose his base.

Big prediction here....no acceptable deal is ever proposed let alone signed by all parties.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at January 26, 2018 06:36 PM (+Dllb)

257 Schumer got his ass handed to him on the shutdown. His base was enraged.

Trump comes up with an offer immediately after that - reading many people/pundits - would enrage the R base.

However, this was a trial balloon. I have seen no specific piece of paper. This was offered while Trump is in Davos, so he can say "Hey, Kelly didn't quite understand what I meant."

More importantly, Trump will use the SOTU speech to highlight that he was more than willing to meet Schumer half way and take the heat from his base. "Trump wanted to make a deal."

He will then say, "As I based my campaign on, the wall must be built." He will go on and say that as much as he hates to do it, he believes DACA is unconstitutional, but to give some sense of ????, he's willing to give congress another 6 months.

H will say I thought the Ds wanted a deal, but I've learned how hard the senate is far apart and getting legislation, but we must start from the House bill, because we must legislate this. I, Trump, thought that by making an offer better than has ever been made, it would spur the process. But the reaction of Schumer just leads me to believe that Schumer wants to play politics. Thus, 6 months more and if no deal has been reached, deportations begin.

This will give Trump the position of "I've done everything I've done and unlike that other JEG, I can't unilaterally make the law. But congress has to do it job and ICE has to do it's job." H will go on about laws on the books and they must be enforced. If congress doesn't want the laws enforced, it must change the laws."

Thus, we're back at square one.

Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal at January 26, 2018 06:36 PM (bB4HN)

258
That makes it easier for them to plot against us behind our backs, thus feature, not a bug!
Posted by: Hrothgarevitch BOT at January 26, 2018 06:35 PM

They can do it right in front of us, then.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 26, 2018 06:36 PM (IqV8l)

259 So Congress will give us trillions and trillions for nation building in Africa and the ME, but won't give us 25 billion to build a wall to stop an invasion.

Lock them up.

Posted by: Monk at January 26, 2018 06:36 PM (g4lFK)

260 One night a wild young cowboy came in
Wild as the West Texas wind
Dashing and daring, a drink he was sharing
With wicked Felina, the girl that I loved

-
Now somewhere in the Black Mountain Hills of Dakota
There lived a young boy named Rocky Raccoon
And one day his woman ran off with another guy
Hit young Rocky in the eye
Rocky didn't like that
He said, "I'm gonna get that boy"

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History at January 26, 2018 06:36 PM (w/e2n)

261 will somehow magically make the Dems' dilemma any worse, their internal rift any more acrimonious?"

Who's claiming that?

What this does is make their side of negotiations more difficult.

Causing "dreamerz" to storm Shumy's office was just a bonus. Or did you miss that?

Posted by: Anon a mouse at January 26, 2018 06:36 PM (7LY+6)

262 Well, rumors on Twatter are:

Mandatory biometric national ID is stuffed inside the House GOP immigration reform bill. Democrats' non-citizen "electorate" on suicide Watch. house-bill/4760
4:29 PM - Jan 26, 2018

Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:37 PM (Zz0t1)

263 Mexican chicks can be pretty hot.

Posted by: Dick Grinder at January 26, 2018 06:15 PM (mbYl0)

========

You and ¡Jeb! must share the same ophthalmologist. And let it bleed over into your politics.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at January 26, 2018 06:37 PM (/qEW2)

264 248 Does anyone honestly believe Trump would do that?
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at January 26, 2018 06:33 PM (+Dllb)

And that is how Trump just keeps things churning..... no one knows what's going to happen (including this Kirk guy)..... so chaos reigns until a good deal can be struck....

THAT seems the most likely scenario here.
Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:34 PM (br2jI)

The man does seem to thrive on chaos.
Keeps his head when all else are losing theirs...

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:37 PM (xJa6I)

265 183 15 yr old shows up at bar self identifying as 25 yr old

Serve or toss ??
Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:24 PM (4u7kU)

You can't ask what they identify as! That is offensive. You have to take their word for it.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 26, 2018 06:37 PM (wdmm9)

266 Ok...then the SC rules it's legal for him to rescind the unlawful DACA EO, Trump does so, then says "I offer you a deal, Congress didn't fix this, so it is done."

Is that possible?
Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:33 PM (br2jI)

Anything is possible, but it would be politically unwise in my opinion. As I see it PDT has the Left on the run. They are on record as thinking 1-2 thousand dollar bonus are nothing since they are all millionaires, They are on the wrong side of the Tax Cut issue, They are about to reject and actually already have this generous offer, on record as only representing illegal non citizens, as against the Military, Against Israel. I think PDT has em right where he wants em. which is why their only option at this point is impeachment.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:37 PM (SjImc)

267 Daddy's precious says keep the dacas and daddy keeps the dacas. End of story.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:37 PM (ZmrWV)

268 Mexican chicks can be pretty hot.

Up to 25.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 26, 2018 06:38 PM (WbIyz)

269 Dems have all the lawyers on their side. So they know how to write a bill that looks good on the surface but fucks us in the details. This is what Kirkorian is basically saying. Look at the fine print and map out how the butraucracy will respond and these deals are always awful.
Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:34 PM (0S2ma)

And just why would the Dems be writing the bill? So Trump will sign a behemoth Democrat bill chock full of tiny print? Really??
Wow, that's one weak-ass argument!!

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:38 PM (br2jI)

270 Hey everybody.

So, let me get this straight: first, Chuckie Schumer rolls over about the shutdown...

And now, however inadvertently, he's going to lead the libs in saving us from Trump's own ickburger amnesty proposal?

It's literally as if God Himself is trolling American politics at this point.

Posted by: qdpsteve at January 26, 2018 06:38 PM (eMKNe)

271 So quiet today in politics. I think the lefty journalists thought Trump would bomb in Davos, which he is not, and had no back up plan for additional antiTrump news. Ha!

Posted by: LizLem at January 26, 2018 06:38 PM (hvf9s)

272 15 yr old shows up at bar self identifying as 25 yr old

Serve or toss ??
Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:24 PM (4u7kU)

Is she hot?

Posted by: Insomniac - mostly stable at January 26, 2018 06:39 PM (NWiLs)

273
Mandatory biometric national ID is stuffed inside the House GOP immigration reform bill. Democrats' non-citizen "electorate" on suicide Watch. house-bill/4760
4:29 PM - Jan 26, 2018
Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:37 PM (Zz0t1)

I don't see our government abusing this at all / sarc

Posted by: Monk at January 26, 2018 06:39 PM (g4lFK)

274 Allahpundit has been wrong on everything for 3 fucking years, but this time, he's right guys.

Krikorian will have nothing to do if this problem is actually solved.

However, caution is warranted, wait to see the final bill.

I trust Stephen Miller over these two any day of the week. Again, let's see the final proposal shall we.

Posted by: prescient11 at January 26, 2018 06:39 PM (q+HNC)

275 >>Up to 25.

It's a Wide Latina thing.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 26, 2018 06:39 PM (/tuJf)

276 Didn't ANYONE read "Art of the Deal"?

No. saw "Art of the Feel" with Stormy, tho

Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:39 PM (4u7kU)

277 272 15 yr old shows up at bar self identifying as 25 yr old

Serve or toss ??
Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:24 PM (4u7kU)

Is she hot?
Posted by: Insomniac - mostly stable at January 26, 2018 06:39 PM (NWiLs)

*ding*
*ding*
*ding*

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:39 PM (xJa6I)

278 Well, I'm just gonna sit here with my beer and watch all the dancing-around-with-the-hair-on-fire, and wait for something to actually happen.
Two, three times a week it's omg, trump's gonna sell us out, run in circles, scream and shout.
Number of times he's actually sold us out ? Zero.

Posted by: russian-bot_rat_eez, gaslighting you 24/365 at January 26, 2018 06:39 PM (oVWx5)

279 McConnell could get the wall FUNDED in 3 weeks...

Just put it in the spending bill that is coming up... and DARE the Dems to shut the Government down again...

And if they do, then change the rules of the Senate so that IF an apropriations bill is more than 3 months late... it only needs a simple majority to move forward...

It is a SENATE RULE that is stopping things... not a law... not the Constitution... a rule...

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 26, 2018 06:39 PM (NgKpN)

280 269

Miss Lindsey is one of the "republican" authors of the bill. Need I spell it out to you? Yes Demicarts are writing this bill.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (ZmrWV)

281 231 >>>>How bout we wait for an actual bill to be signed?
nah, we do what we did in 2006 and freak the fuck out.

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (V3U1L)

282 183 15 yr old shows up at bar self identifying as 25 yr old

Serve or toss ??
Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:24 PM (4u7kU)

And soon, all citizens will be required to have an implanted RFID tag with a national ID number. Well, ok, it's not required. Totally optional, but you will not be able to have a bank account, drive a car, or receive a paycheck without it. But the choice is totally yours to make.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (wdmm9)

283 The 1.8 million (except for felons and true fuck-ups) were never going to get deported. They're too far down the priority list.
---
DC's priority list.

The whole point of electing Trump was that we were informing DC that they no longer get to set the priorities.

They should be the first to go, because thanks to obama's registration list, we know where they are, as well as presumably the illegal aliens that brought them.

Posted by: Methos at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (XQvuQ)

284 Educated Mexicans speak English.

We get the illiterates.
Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 06:33 PM (7UW64)

Mexico is a very class stratified country. At the top are people of full European Spanish Ancestry. At the bottom are the mixed race Indian & Spainish people. These are the ones that come here illegally. Very poor and illiterate. This is also mostly true for the other countries in Central and South America.

Posted by: Archer at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (gbWkA)

285 So the Trump proposal has been passed in toto by both houses of Congress and signed by the President, then?

The wall is going to be built, much more quickly than anyone can possibly imagine. And some folks will get amnesty, which I don't like but if that is what is necessary to get the wall built, then fine.

When the wall is built, everything changes. No more endless streams of millions of people crossing the border every year. The Israeli experience with their wall is instructive. As long as we get the wall all the rest of this will wash out.

Trump is a lot smarter and a hell of a lot more pro-security/common sense than most people realize.

I think I'll wait for a little while to shit myself and curl up in the fetal position crying about betrayals. Talk about snowflakes.

Posted by: Sharkman at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (Kge8X)

286 And no big deal, especially since it was DOA - probably.

Just a missed opportunity to *actually*
exploit the issue politically by differentiation. Offer what most of
the country supports, and what got you elected - let the Dems further
marginalize themselves.

The terrified D senator from North
Dakota would be far more on the hot spot rejecting a sensible
("maximalist") offer than this one. In fact, she and her ilk will
probably use this offer - if it actually emerges as we understand it -
to differentiate *herself* from Beltway Dems (this is how these red
state Dems, literally, exist). Much harder for her to "accept" the
"maximalist" offer - without risking a real rift with her party. And if
she *did* accept the sensible offer - great! She survives the election
- she becomes part of Trump's 60+ who will no support REAL action and
reform.

Exactly the same applies to her 9 or so colleagues in similar positions.

The tax cuts will be a major bludgeon to be used against select Dem incumbents.

Opposition to border security, support for "sanctuary" lawlessness, opposition to limiting immigration and ending illegal immigration - this is a hugely powerful package of issues that can devastate the targets we're talking about.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (QDnY+)

287 When PDT realizes Congress as a whole is a mortal enemy, his position might change on DACA.

Posted by: Under Fire at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (r9UYA)

288 This was a 'best offer', one we do not want to do, with an expiration date. An offer I think Trump knew they would not take"

Exactly so. The ratchet is being turned, and Shumy knows it, and there's not one thing he can do... look for the "dreamerz" to be in his office again soon.

Posted by: Anon a mouse at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (7LY+6)

289 279 McConnell could get the wall FUNDED in 3 weeks...

Just put it in the spending bill that is coming up... and DARE the Dems to shut the Government down again...

And if they do, then change the rules of the Senate so that IF an apropriations bill is more than 3 months late... it only needs a simple majority to move forward...

It is a SENATE RULE that is stopping things... not a law... not the Constitution... a rule...
Posted by: Don Q'Bot at J

remember, obama had his stash of cash because democrat. but it magically dried up for trump?

what bullshit.

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (V3U1L)

290 >>>>>Daddy's precious says keep the dacas and daddy keeps the dacas. End of story.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:37 PM (ZmrWV)
...and you also said he would cave and keep the Paris agreement because of his precious.

you have to let it go.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (+Dllb)

291
Miss Lindsey is one of the "republican" authors of the bill. Need I spell it out to you? Yes Demicarts are writing this bill.
Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (ZmrWV)

He is the author of what bill? His bill is dead and gone. What are you talking about?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (SjImc)

292 Mexican chicks can be pretty hot.

Up to 25.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 26, 2018 06:38 PM (WbIyz)

Always....ALWAYS look at their mom. That's EXACTLY what they're going to look like later on. ESPECIALLY if you knock them up.

Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (Zz0t1)

293 272 15 yr old shows up at bar self identifying as 25 yr old

Serve or toss ??
Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:24 PM (4u7kU)

Is she hot?
Posted by: Insomniac - mostly stable at January 26, 2018 06:39 PM (NWiLs)

Smokin

Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:41 PM (4u7kU)

294 no worry. Democrats will not agree to this as it gives DJT a win. They can not have this, no matter how much they want what is offered.
They must be the ones giving immigrants their (our) goodies in order to assure their votes.

Posted by: MAGA wall at January 26, 2018 06:41 PM (Wa5hI)

295 Look at the fine print and map out how the butraucracy will respond and these deals are always awful.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:34 PM (0S2ma)

There's a reason the progs captured the law schools, and thus the judiciary, for decades.

Conservatives continue to believe that the written word probably means what it appears to say, whilst progs know that eventually all legislative words mean exactly what five unelected clowns in black robes can be convinced to decide they say at some point in the future.

Posted by: Hrothgarevitch BOT at January 26, 2018 06:41 PM (gwPgz)

296 I don't see our government abusing this at all / sarc

Posted by: Monk at January 26, 2018 06:39 PM (g4lFK)

See: The Patriot Act

Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:41 PM (Zz0t1)

297 So the USSC stopped the execution of a guy for a murder in 1985 because he has Alzheimers and won't understand that he is being executed.

Two points: One, I would figure that for a mercy and two, if he had been executed sometime in the last century he would have appreciated that he was being killed.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 26, 2018 06:41 PM (WbIyz)

298 290

I did? News to me.

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:42 PM (ZmrWV)

299 With his "amnesty offer" (which he knew Democrats would not accept), Trump has once again painted Democrats as the party of #AmericaLast for the midterms. He is alienating moderates from the Democrats as they lurch further left. How do people not see the play here?

Posted by: PARISPARAMUSONTWITTER at January 26, 2018 06:42 PM (TsQ+8)

300 Mexico is a very class stratified country. At the top are people of full European Spanish Ancestry. At the bottom are the mixed race Indian & Spainish people. These are the ones that come here illegally. Very poor and illiterate. This is also mostly true for the other countries in Central and South America.
---------------------
right. and both the spaniards and the mestisos get counted as minority status because america decided it hated her founders.

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 06:42 PM (V3U1L)

301 I think PDT has em right where he wants em. which is why their only option at this point is impeachment.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:37 PM (SjImc)

Ok, get that... then what do you think will happen to this DACA shit?

I think Trump will surprise everyone and in the end not only draw an "America-First Red Line in the sand, but he will publicly lay out the reason why this Dreamer shit can't be sustained, sorry, but a whole hellava lot of you have to just plain get out. Sad! But, bye!

I really believe that will happen.

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:42 PM (br2jI)

302 How about private funding for the wall. If you or your company builds a part of the wall, you get x in return. Build a border crossing, you get to collect a toll, and some other benefit for non crossing segments.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 26, 2018 06:42 PM (wdmm9)

303 Talk about snowflakes."

Indeed.

Fun to watch, though.

Posted by: Anon a mouse at January 26, 2018 06:42 PM (7LY+6)

304 That's nice. He still needs to get the money from Congress and the only
way that is happening is negotiating with Senate Democrats.
---
Or McConnell can finally fix the senate rules and pass everything by majority vote.

Of course he won't because the gop opposes the American people on this issue just as firmly as the democrats do.

Posted by: Methos at January 26, 2018 06:42 PM (XQvuQ)

305 292 Mexican chicks can be pretty hot.

Up to 25.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 26, 2018 06:38 PM (WbIyz)

Like a tulip, you turn around and it's over

Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:43 PM (4u7kU)

306 Just for you Peaches!

*Out in the West Texas town of El Paso
I fell in love with a Mexican girl
Nighttime would find me in Rosa's cantina
Music would play and Felina would whirl
Blacker than night were the eyes of Felina
Wicked and evil while casting a spell
My love was deep for this Mexican maiden
I was in love, but in vain I could tell
One night a wild young cowboy came in
Wild as the West Texas wind
Dashing and daring, a drink he was sharing
With wicked Felina, the girl that I loved
So in anger I challenged his right for the love of this maiden
Down went his hand for the gun that he wore
My challenge was answered in less than a heartbeat
The handsome young stranger lay dead on the floor
Just for a moment I stood there In silence
Shocked by the foul evil deed I had done
Many thoughts raced through my mind as I stood there
I had but one chance and that was to run
Out through the back door of Rosa's I ran
Out where the horses were tied
I caught a good one, it looked like it could run
Up on its back and away I did ride
Just as fast as I could from the West Texas town of El Paso
Out to the badlands of New Mexico
Back in El Paso my life would be worthless
Everything's gone, in life nothing is left
It's been so long since I've seen the young maiden
My love is stronger than my fear of death
I saddled up and away I did go
Riding alone in the dark
Maybe tomorrow a bullet may find me
Tonight nothing's worse than this pain in my heart
And at last here I am on the hill overlooking El Paso
I can see Rosa's Cantina below
My love is strong and it pushes me onward
Down off the hill to Felina I go
Off to my right I see five mounted cowboys
Off to my left ride a dozen or more
Shouting and shooting, I can't let them catch me
I have to make it to Rosa's back door
Something is dreadfully wrong, for I feel
A deep burning pain in my side
Though I am trying to stay in the saddle
I'm getting weary, unable to ride
But my love for Felina is strong and I rise where I've fallen
Though I am weary, I can't stop to rest
I see the white puff of smoke from the rifle
I feel the bullet go deep in my chest
From out of nowhere Felina has found me
Kissing my cheek as she kneels by my side
Cradled by two loving arms that I'll die for
One little kiss, then Felina good-bye*

Posted by: Archer at January 26, 2018 06:43 PM (gbWkA)

307 @ Archer

Thanks man, I also love that song.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:44 PM (xJa6I)

308 I'm not worried. I thought the point was to "meet the donks halfway" with a proposal that their batshit insane base will never accept and let them further lose their shit and turn even more of the country against them. I'll get hair on fire when Trump actually betrays his voters.

Posted by: mugiwara at January 26, 2018 06:44 PM (RChUT)

309 "Execrable Chris" Wallace just made the leetle joke, about how journalists know damn well what a cliche "making his way" is, but when the President walks around (Big Don just leaving AF1 now), they say it anyway.

He ignores the provenance, the Latin aphorism, Aut veniam inveniam aut faciam," motto of Hannibal, Francis Bacon, Robert Peary. "Either find a way, or make one."

PDT does sometimes make his way.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 26, 2018 06:44 PM (H5rtT)

310 The Amnesty Bill Trump Offered Is Fatally Flawed and a Sell-Out on Many Crucial Points
Who is Bill Trump?

Posted by: one-eyed cat peepin' in the seafood store at January 26, 2018 06:44 PM (/sTHK)

311 Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:42 PM (br2jI)

I have no idea how this really plays out. We are in uncharted waters and this mueller thing hangs over everything. It's a good thing I mostly work 7 days a week so I don't have to think about this crap all day every day. LOL

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:44 PM (SjImc)

312 Is she hot?
Posted by: Insomniac - mostly stable at January 26, 2018 06:39 PM (NWiLs)

Smokin

Then it's, "I swear officer, she's from out of state I and believed that Delaware drivers' licenses are finished in magic marker".

Posted by: Bandersnatch at January 26, 2018 06:44 PM (fuK7c)

313 McConnel wants amnesty, shumer wants amnesty, Ryan wants amnesty, pelosi wants amnesty, miss lindsey wants amnesty.

But somehow a bill written by these clowns will be super duper tough on illegals.

Ohhh kay

Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:45 PM (ZmrWV)

314 I have a dream of seeing an ICE vehicle driving over a Glenn Beck teddy bear.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 26, 2018 06:45 PM (4ErVI)

315 305 292 Mexican chicks can be pretty hot.

Up to 25.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 26, 2018 06:38 PM (WbIyz)

Like a tulip, you turn around and it's over
Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:43 PM (4u7kU)

Like the Babushka Bomb.

Posted by: Insomniac - mostly stable at January 26, 2018 06:45 PM (NWiLs)

316 That song needs moar cow bell.

Posted by: Christopher Walken at January 26, 2018 06:45 PM (qhVI/)

317 Also, Trump's offer is a shot across the bow regarding the funding thing come 8-Feb. Is Schumer going to listen to his base and shutdown the gov't again - ESPECIALLY after this offer from Trump?

It boxed Schumer in regarding the funding. Schumer shuts it down now, his demands look more demented after Trump's latest offer.

So Schumer doesn't shut it down and Schumer's base goes ballistic.

Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal at January 26, 2018 06:45 PM (bB4HN)

318 >>"Execrable Chris" Wallace just made the leetle joke, about how journalists know damn well what a cliche "making his way" is, but when the President walks around (Big Don just leaving AF1 now), they say it anyway.

I'm glad I never have to listen to that shit head again since cutting the cord.

Posted by: Under Fire at January 26, 2018 06:46 PM (r9UYA)

319 Since by only a miraculous confluence of events did we avoid a Hillary! presidency, I have come to view anything at all that we get from President Trump as gravy. He has caused, and will continue to cause, the left such agony that I am quite personally satisfied.

Posted by: Weasel at January 26, 2018 06:46 PM (Sfs6o)

320 Schumer's base goes ballistic.
Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal at January 26, 2018 06:45 PM (bB4HN)

LOL, Well Schumer's base going ballistic is the one thing we can take to the bank

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:46 PM (SjImc)

321 There's a concept in law called laches. If you don't act on your rights, and the other party acts to his detriment, you lose.

We let the Dreamers happen. They're more American than Mexican. And we're at fault. And most Americans see that, which is why cutting Dreamers some kind of break plays well.

And they're far down the list of who we can and should deport.

I'd take Trump's package, if 10 or 12 D Senators would go along. It'll break Schumer and the hard left in Congress.

And if it doesn't happen, just or good or better.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 26, 2018 06:46 PM (pV/54)

322 Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (wdmm9)

Ya know, it's fairly outre to scare old folks

Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (4u7kU)

323 Um, zibbly ...... the "freak out" in 2006 was precisely what killed amnesty then. And apart from the yuuuge and critical presence of Trump, of course - not much has really changed since then. Talk to Krikorian or Cotton about the head-count in the R party.

ace hints at this, but folks the situation is that amnesty and de facto open borders and end to citizenship legality is a huge wall leaning over about to collapse (into realization) - it's the "default" outcome in the US right now, due to the "elites" being fanatically devoted to it (and the institutions having rotted, lawlessness becoming "institutionalized" as it were).

Only thing stopping it is popular hostility, and fear. Look at the first two years of Bambi's reign. Both houses, the WH. They didn't even *breathe* a word about anything that would require roll-call votes on immigration. Didn't dare. In *Obama's* America.

No harm at all in the WH or the Hill thinking they have very little operating space on anything connected to amnesty.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (QDnY+)

324
>>> Art of the Deal...go!
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis

Ha I heard that in a Mark Levin voice.
Posted by: LizLem

LOL

God bless us

Posted by: Hands at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (EzdLW)

325 314 I have a dream of seeing an ICE vehicle driving over a Glenn Beck teddy bear.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 26, 2018 06:45 PM (4ErVI)

With two sad squeaks.

Posted by: eleven at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (+lOpA)

326 Off to gym and dinner.

Keep calm and carry extra ammo.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (xJa6I)

327 Then it's, "I swear officer, she's from out of state I and believed that Delaware drivers' licenses are finished in magic marker".

Posted by: Bandersnatch at January 26, 2018 06:44 PM (fuK7c)

I watched an episode of Texas Game Warden or whatever the other day. An adult providing alcohol to a minor not their child is punishable up to $4000 per minor and jail time.

15 and smokin hot (can you be that at 15?) means shit compared to that.

Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (Zz0t1)

328 Trump is going to say: "I offered the Democrats a sweet deal - they turned that down. That means they won't negotiate in good faith. What happens now is that we have emigration law as written and I am ordering it to be enforced."

Democrats have no room to twist anything - they're done.

Posted by: An Observation at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (mHhLb)

329 I read on another site that Graham has been cut out of these negotiations because he was his usual weak self. Bizpacreview dot com.

Posted by: Cheri at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (JkFpA)

330
Not buyin it. Even worse, not gonna debate about why.

Posted by: irongrampa at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (S/hVx)

331 One little kiss, then Felina good-bye*
Posted by: Archer at January 26, 2018 06:43 PM (gbWkA)

Great song. I'll be looking that one up on my less strict 'puter when I get home.

Posted by: PugBot Mahon at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (xPJvm)

332 Corey Booker is flapping is gums while POTUS is in the air flying home from a successful Davos trip.
What will PDT nickname be for Booker?

BTW Chris Wallace sucks

Posted by: redenzo at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (14qvS)

333 315 305 292 Mexican chicks can be pretty hot.

Up to 25.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 26, 2018 06:38 PM (WbIyz)

Like a tulip, you turn around and it's over
Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:43 PM (4u7kU)

Like the Babushka Bomb.

Posted by: Insomniac - mostly stable at January 26, 2018 06:45 PM (NWiLs)

They dry up like saddle leather. Also get fat.

Posted by: Under Fire at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (r9UYA)

334 About a maid I'll sing a song, sing rickety tickety tin,
About a maid I'll sing a song, she didn't have her family long,
Not only did she do them wrong,
She did ever one of them in, them in, she did every one of them in.

Her mother she could never stand, sing rickety tickety tin,
Her mother she could never stand, and so a cyanide soup she planned,
Her mother died with the spoon in her hand,
And her face in a hideous grin, a grin,
Her face in a hideous grin.

One morning in a fit of pique, sing rickety tickety tin,
One morning in a fit of pique, she drowned her father in the creek,
The water tasted bad for a week,
And we had to make do with gin, with gin,
We had to make do with gin.

She set her sister's hair on fire, sing rickety tickety tin,
She set her sister's hair on fire,
And as the smoke and flames rose higher,
She danced around the funeral pyre,
Playing a violin, 'olin, playing a violin.

She weighted her brother down with stones, sing rickety tickety tin,
She weighted her brother down with stones,
And sent him off to Davy Jones,
All they ever found were some bones,
And a couple of pieces of skin, of skin,
A couple of pieces of skin.

One day when she had nothing to do, sing rickety tickety tin,
One day when she had nothing to do,
She cut her baby brother in two,
And served him up as an Irish stew,
And invited the neighbors in, them in,
Invited the neighbors in.

And when at last the police came by, sing rickety tickety tin,
And when at last the police came by,
Her little pranks she did not deny,
For to do so she would have had to lie,
and lying she knew was a sin, as sin,
lying she knew was a sin.

My tragic tale I won't prolong, sing rickety tickety tin,
My tragic tale I won't prolong,
and if you do not like my song,
You've only yourself to blame if it's too long,
You should never have let me begin.

Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (7UW64)

335 Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:38 PM (br2jI)

Yes, I'm sure Trump's many fervent supports within the GOP DC Congressional Establishment will be writing a really fine yuge bill that actually does what the President wants, they'd never seek cooperation or input from their "friends" across the aisle (all of whom have the same Chamber of Commerce number on speed dial).

Posted by: Hrothgarevitch BOT at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (gwPgz)

336 15 and smokin hot (can you be that at 15?) means shit compared to that.
Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (Zz0t1)

Uh, yeah. Picked my son up from a school dance one night and, yeah.

Posted by: Insomniac - mostly stable at January 26, 2018 06:48 PM (NWiLs)

337 I do not think Trump will offer more concessions in the next round. I think his attitude will be "I made you a fair offer and you rejected it. You have no bargaining chips and for your insolence you will now get a lesser offer."

Posted by: cfo mom at January 26, 2018 06:48 PM (RfzVr)

338 Hot chili peppers in the blistering sun
Dust on my face and my cape
Me and Magdalena on the run
I think this time we shall escape
Sold my guitar to the baker's son
For a few crumbs and a place to hide
But I can get another one
And I'll play for Magdalena as we ride
No llores, mi querida
Dios nos vigila
Soon the horse will take us to Durango
Agarrame, mi vida
Soon the desert will be gone
Soon you will be dancing the fandango
Past the Aztec ruins and the ghosts of our people
Hoofbeats like castanets on stone.
At night I dream of bells in the village steeple
Then I see the bloody face of Ramon.
Was it me that shot him down in the cantina
Was it my hand that held the gun?
Come, let us fly, my Magdalena
The dogs are barking and what's done is done.
No llores, mi querida
Dios nos vigila
Soon the horse will take us to Durango
Agarrame, mi vida
Soon the desert will be gone
Soon you will be dancing the fandango
At the corrida we'll sit in the shade
And watch the young torero stand alone
We'll drink tequila where our grandfathers stayed
When they rode with Villa into Torreon
Then the padre will recite the prayers of old
In the little church this side of town.
I will wear new boots and an earring of gold
You'll shine with diamonds in your wedding gown
The way is long but the end is near
Already the fiesta has begun.
And in the streets the face of God will appear
With His serpent eyes of obsidian.
No llores, mi querida
Dios nos vigila
Soon the horse will take us to Durango
Agarrame, mi vida
Soon the desert will be gone
Soon you will be dancing the fandango
Was that the thunder that I heard?
My head is vibrating, I feel a sharp pain
Come sit by me, don't say a word
Oh, can it be that I am slain?
Quick, Magdalena, take my gun
Look up in the hills, that flash of light
Aim well my little one
We may not make it through the night

Posted by: Bandersnatch at January 26, 2018 06:48 PM (fuK7c)

339 I have to say. Watching Reagan give 2.9 million people amnesty right out of the chute and then get stroked on the border protection was hard to take.
That being said the country did not fall apart.

As far as deporting DACA people, it's almost a joke. Many drain our resources, they vote whether you want to admit it or not. Hell they even hold local offices as community leaders in backwards states like California or Illinois.They will just keep on coming and coming and coming if measures aren't taken and I like how Trump seems to want to address it on multiple fronts logically and yeah there needs to be some tweaking but what we have now will be the end of all of us.

PS: Deport them all is a bumper sticker not a reality.

Posted by: Drider at January 26, 2018 06:48 PM (HdKKm)

340 There's the native Mexican Indians, and then there is the Spanish. Who run Mexico?

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at January 26, 2018 06:48 PM (6Ll1u)

341 It boxed Schumer in regarding the funding. Schumer shuts it down now, his demands look more demented after Trump's latest offer.

So Schumer doesn't shut it down and Schumer's base goes ballistic.
Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal at January 26, 2018 06:45 PM (bB4HN)

Hey....I like that.

Posted by: eleven at January 26, 2018 06:48 PM (+lOpA)

342 Then it's, "I swear officer, she's from out of state I and believed that Delaware drivers' licenses are finished in magic marker".
Posted by: Bandersnatch at January 26, 2018 06:44 PM (fuK7c)

What if it's a he ??

Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:48 PM (4u7kU)

343 im tired of the Right's constant knee-jerk Eeyore-inf. Yes, I understand it's been ingrained in us from a longstanding pattern of backstabbing.

But fer cryin' out loud, we just had an incredible, expectations-exceeding year with Trump, and it probably could've been even better if he hadn't had to fight the media's constant attempts to discredit him.

Why, then, do we have to start bitching and moaning about betrayal etc. at the drop of a hat? Isn't that playing right into the media's book. I mean, we don't have to stop being skeptical or cease waiting and seeing, but damn--it seems like even the staunchest on the Right are just waiting for a moment of uncertainty to jump on and say Oh I knew it was too good to be true, we actually are boned.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at January 26, 2018 06:48 PM (q6jjE)

344 well, the conventional wisdom that the weak concede everything up front, however, Trump certainly knows this. Trump made this offer knowing it would be rejected. Now he has chopped one of the legs out of the dem electorate.

Posted by: --- .-. /-. --- - at January 26, 2018 06:49 PM (GFAq1)

345 You have no bargaining chips and for your insolence you will now get a lesser offer."
Posted by: cfo mom at January 26, 2018 06:48 PM (RfzVr)

And they will put up the Casino Fee themselves

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:49 PM (SjImc)

346 My love was deep for this Mexican maiden

-
Let's just say I doubt the accuracy of the maiden part.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History at January 26, 2018 06:49 PM (w/e2n)

347 This problem will require a 'different' solution. Perhaps something involving helicopters. Of course.

Posted by: Eromero at January 26, 2018 06:49 PM (zLDYs)

348 Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (7UW64)

You have dimensions I could not have imagined!

Posted by: Hrothgarevitch BOT at January 26, 2018 06:49 PM (gwPgz)

349 Cool Hand Luke on TCM.

Luke ain't doing so well.

Carl: "Anyone uses unsecure email, spends 10 years in The Box"

I may have ad libbed that last part.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 26, 2018 06:50 PM (Zdm89)

350 Dems caved next working day after shutdown. Polls looked bad. Still do. No need to punt. Keep running the ball.

Posted by: Phildirt at January 26, 2018 06:50 PM (qhVI/)

351 Who run Mexico?

-
Auntie Entity

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History at January 26, 2018 06:50 PM (w/e2n)

352 Child please. In Trumps world this is known as a bear hug offer. And Chuck refused.

What comes next?

Shrugs. Now youse can't leave.

Posted by: Regular joe at January 26, 2018 06:50 PM (7PllL)

353 OK, all together now!

Fish heads, fish heads - eat *em up - yum!

End musical interlude.

Posted by: Archer at January 26, 2018 06:51 PM (gbWkA)

354 You have dimensions I could not have imagined!

Posted by: Hrothgarevitch BOT at January 26, 2018 06:49 PM (gwPgz)

Some songs just need to be learned by heart. Don't get me started on Robert Service poetry.

Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 06:51 PM (7UW64)

355 I caught a good one, it looked like it could run

Up on its back and away I did ride

Just as fast as I could from the West Texas town of El Paso

Out to the badlands of New Mexico

I have always admired the internal rhyme of that first line.
HST, that was a hell of a horse. From El Paso to the N.M. Badlands is over 300 miles.

Can't sing the song straight anymore. Been calling her Fellatia for 40 years.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 26, 2018 06:51 PM (H5rtT)

356 You put that pile of dirt in my yard, boy.

Posted by: eleven at January 26, 2018 06:51 PM (+lOpA)

357 it seems like even the staunchest on the Right are just waiting for a moment of uncertainty to jump on and say Oh I knew it was too good to be true, we actually are boned.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at January 26, 2018 06:48 PM (q6jjE)

Yes, sir. Well said. Which is why my lighter fluid and Zippo are still in the cabinet.

Posted by: PugBot Mahon at January 26, 2018 06:51 PM (xPJvm)

358 no reason to trust Mark Krikorian more than Trump.

Posted by: --- .-. /-. --- - at January 26, 2018 06:51 PM (GFAq1)

359 I also think Trump has played Schumer like a chicken with a bad haircut. He knows they would never accept his offer so the risk in making the offer was very low. When February 8th rolls around he jams the whole thing down Schumer's throat. All people will remember is that Trump made them an offer and the demos are right back to putting illegals before Americans.

Posted by: Weasel at January 26, 2018 06:51 PM (Sfs6o)

360 tcn in AK -Tom Lehrer was an American treasure.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 26, 2018 06:52 PM (6FqZa)

361 Trump should try the "You have to pass it to see what is in it" routine that worked a treat for the Dems with Obamacare.
Here is my immigration bill. Pass it, and I'll show it to you.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 26, 2018 06:52 PM (wdmm9)

362 LOL at Ace going back to Allahpundit for emotional support.

Let it play out, and see.

Posted by: William Eaton at January 26, 2018 06:53 PM (MuTTO)

363 Why, then, do we have to start bitching and moaning about betrayal etc. at the drop of a hat?
---
Because we can read the offer he made to the progs with our own eyes and are perfectly capable of answering "Does this match my demands?"

Posted by: Methos at January 26, 2018 06:53 PM (XQvuQ)

364 Someone must have decided Nikki Haley is a threat. CNN is going wall to wall with "Haley denies 'disgusting' rumor of affair with Trump"

Posted by: Dave_in_Fla at January 26, 2018 06:53 PM (qkuN+)

365

Ooh, my little hungry one, hungry one
Open up a package of my bologna
Ooh, I think the toast is done, the toast is done
Top it with a little of my bologna

Never gonna stop, eat it up
Such a tasty snack I always eat too much, then throw up
But I'll soon be back for my, my, my, yi, yi, woo
M-m-m-my bologna

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (IqV8l)

366 Imagine what we would have got from Rubio...or CLINTON!!!

Posted by: Tentotwo at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (yhf6w)

367 I got my first real six-string
Bought it at the five-and-dime
Played it 'til my fingers bled
Was the summer of sixty-nine
Me and some guys from school
Had a band and we tried real hard
Jimmy quit, Jody got married
I should've known we'd never get far
Oh, when I look back now
That summer seemed to last forever
And if I had the choice
Yeah, I'd always wanna be there
Those were the best days of my life...

Posted by: Archer at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (gbWkA)

368 Ace just does not like President Trump.

No biggee.

Posted by: nip at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (ECLaL)

369 I did not think it possible but neverskankles makes me miss BSG.

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (2DOZq)

370 DACA expires in March.

Then the deportations begin. They have their personal information and their locations. It will happen.

Trump doesn't have to do a thing other than let ICE just do its job.

This will be absolutely devastating to the Dem's foreigners brigade. They'll never again be able to trust them to look out for their interests. That's the type of playing one side off against the other that I've been longing to see for years. It would be so easy to get the various Dem factions at each others' throats that it should be standard operating procedure.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (4ErVI)

371 "I have no idea how this really plays out. We are in uncharted waters and this mueller thing hangs over everything. Posted by: Nevergiveup

yeah, did we check to see if Deep State kidnapped Trump's grandkids? Or has Mueller threatened to go aggressively after Kushner and Don Jr if Trump doesn't obey?

This OIG report needs to lock up 1000 thugs, then fall elections and Rs win supermajorities cuz they so love the (foreign) dreamers (American dreamers not so much) ... THEN everything changes and the deal is back to Wall/e-verify/enforcement first ... right?

If we don't legally clear out the deep state mafia, we lost. But I'm told that is happening #2weeks

Posted by: illiniwek at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (bT8Z4)

372 Ok, light your hair on fire and scream sell out. He's shown zero evidence of caving on anything, but let's say he does. Anyone remember what happened when the R congress and W tried to shove amnesty down our throats? I do.

Posted by: Duke Lowell, not a Russian bot, as far as you know at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (gC2IV)

373 "But it also provides for the continuation of those categories (and reallocation of the lottery visas) until the admission of all 4 million people on the current chain-migration waiting lists."

^^^^
What else are you going to do about that? Cancel applications already submitted? Seems kinda cruel. Not to mention such an action may not even pass legal challenge.

Posted by: Serious Cat at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (NUtAO)

374 Great song. I'll be looking that one up on my less strict 'puter when I get home.

-
The great Marty Robbins. He did a bunch of gunfighter songs.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (w/e2n)

375 You're forgetting one thing here, folks. This problem will be resolved organically. The science is settled.

Posted by: Fritz at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (bJ0w+)

376 Because we can read the offer he made to the progs with our own eyes and are perfectly capable of answering "Does this match my demands?"
Posted by: Methos at January

so what. he floated it out there. did he sign anything? he is negotiating.

Posted by: --- .-. /-. --- - at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (GFAq1)

377 Maxine Waters giving national address after State Of The Union...

Now THIS I gotta see

Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:55 PM (4u7kU)

378 Conservatives have been screwed for decades. Cherish the fact that a master negotiator is playing on our team.

This is a setup.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at January 26, 2018 06:55 PM (89T5c)

379 Steve_SoCal I think you seriously mischaracterize the situation. Not that it matters - it doesn't.

Schumer I believe has already signaled there will be no Marpi Cliffs exercise on DACA for the next appropriations deadline.

And the Dems are already going ballistic, and would have no matter what was offered. Look at some the scary-delusional public statements of the lawless lobby (ACLU's a good example). Having been in that situation, I'm guessing these statements - literally - were not altered a bit, were to be issued regardless of the WH's offer.

So nothing tactically was achieved. And the national politics of this already doom the Dems - that's what I mean when I say Trump holds all the cards.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 06:55 PM (QDnY+)

380 what has this krikorian guy ever done for us? Trump has already made some serious contributions with judges and tax changes.

Posted by: --- .-. /-. --- - at January 26, 2018 06:55 PM (GFAq1)

381 I was telling a coworker the other day, I don't really give a shit what politicians say, I care about what they actually do with the office. If someone is campaigning as the second coming of Stalin, but I'm confident that he is lying through his teeth and intends to be a hardcore conservative, I'm supporting that politician.

Trump worried me because while he said a lot of the right things, I was skeptical as to what he would actually do. Even John McCain sounds like Trump did for approximately 6 weeks every 6 years, we know how that's worked out.

The reality of President Trump has thus far greatly surpassed my best expectations. The guy has proven himself to be pretty adept at political theater while delivering the goods. I'll wait until there is something concrete for me to get pissed at him over.

Posted by: mugiwara at January 26, 2018 06:55 PM (RChUT)

382 What if it's a he ??

You stipulated "smokin' hot", so whatever works for you.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at January 26, 2018 06:56 PM (fuK7c)

383 Shit. Let me consult my President Trump Sellout Checklist:

1) Get my hot take from NeverTrumper web site on a Friday.
2) Make unsupported claim about how this deal is fatally flawed and cannot possibly be fixed
3) Blame Ivanka
4) Freak out all weekend
5) Pretend it never happened when Monday rolls around and the actual proposal is much closer to what I like, whether on taxes, Jerusalem, climate change, the Mueller inquiry, etc.

Hmm. I might print up Bingo cards. But hey, if you're still pissed- please continue. It would be nice to have pressure from the actual far right.

Posted by: trev006 at January 26, 2018 06:56 PM (jRA31)

384 377 Maxine Waters giving national address after State Of The Union...

Now THIS I gotta see
Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:55 PM (4u7kU)

Oh my.

Posted by: eleven at January 26, 2018 06:56 PM (+lOpA)

385 Lincoln was hated by the hardcore abolitionists because he was soft on slavery. They only loved him after he got killed.

Posted by: William Eaton at January 26, 2018 06:56 PM (MuTTO)

386 Don't get me started on Robert Service poetry.

Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 06:51 PM (7UW64)

How is Lake Lebarge these days?

Posted by: Hrothgarevitch BOT at January 26, 2018 06:56 PM (gwPgz)

387 I'd take Trump's package, if 10 or 12 D Senators would go along. It'll break Schumer and the hard left in Congress.

And if it doesn't happen, just or good or better.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 26, 2018 06:46 PM (pV/54)

Agreed. That's the part Trump will push the most. We let them come here and basically did not enforce our laws. Thus, why TF would they leave?
So Trump says we must build the wall AND enforce our laws. If the wall is not going to stop them, what's the harm in building it? But since people say the wall won't stop them, we MUST enforce our laws.

Win/Win

Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal at January 26, 2018 06:56 PM (bB4HN)

388 "Trump is going to say: "I offered the Democrats a sweet deal - they turned that down.
Democrats have no room to twist anything - they're done."

Spot on.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 26, 2018 06:56 PM (pV/54)

389 Miss Lindsey is one of the "republican" authors of the bill. Need I spell it out to you? Yes Demicarts are writing this bill.
Posted by: #neverskankles at January 26, 2018 06:40 PM (ZmrWV)

Fine but that doesn't mean Trump will sign it.

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 06:56 PM (br2jI)

390 You stipulated "smokin' hot", so whatever works for you.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at January 26, 2018 06:56 PM (fuK7c)

Good point

Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:57 PM (4u7kU)

391 Maxine Waters giving national address after State Of The Union...

Now THIS I gotta see
Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:55 PM (4u7kU)

????

I thought a member of the Kennedy Golden Sperm Club was?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:57 PM (SjImc)

392 One last good one

*Nobody on the road,
Nobody on the beach.
I feel it in the air,
The summer's out of reach.
Empty lake, empty streets,
The sun goes down alone.
I'm driving by your house
Don't know you're not home.
But I can see you,
Your brown skin shining in the sun.
You got your hair combed back
And your sunglasses on, baby.
I can tell you my love for you will still be strong
After the boys of summer have gone.*

Posted by: Archer at January 26, 2018 06:57 PM (gbWkA)

393 DACA expires in March.

Then the deportations begin. They have their personal information and their locations. It will happen.

Trump doesn't have to do a thing other than let ICE just do its job.

This will be absolutely devastating to the Dem's foreigners brigade.
They'll never again be able to trust them to look out for their
interests
---
Yes, that's the optimal outcome.

Yet half the people here it's somehow beyond the capacity of ICE to go to a known address and grab all the illegals on site, and ship them home. Totally unthinkable because, reasons.

Posted by: Methos at January 26, 2018 06:57 PM (XQvuQ)

394 366 Imagine what we would have got from Rubio...or CLINTON!!!
Posted by: Tentotwo at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (yhf6w)

A big glass of a clear liquid?

Posted by: batterup at January 26, 2018 06:57 PM (mtGE/)

395 272 15 yr old shows up at bar self identifying as 25 yr old

Serve or toss ??
Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 06:24 PM (4u7kU)

Is she hot?
Posted by: Insomniac - mostly stable at January 26, 2018 06:39 PM (NWiLs)

*ding*
*ding*
*ding*
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at January 26, 2018 06:39 PM (xJa6I)

*side-eye*
*glares*

Great moral character ya got there, ya lefties

*sends transgender dragon to fry their jewels*

Reprobates. Everywhere. *sighs*

Posted by: Professor Chaos, Gumdrop Gorilla Channel at January 26, 2018 06:57 PM (qz18B)

396 The great Marty Robbins.

Much as I love Mr. Cash, I always preferred Robbins. Wonderful voice.

Posted by: PugBot Mahon at January 26, 2018 06:58 PM (xPJvm)

397 My son used to say, 'Put on the cowboy music." He meant Gunfighter Ballads. I will never know why the cover for that is hot pink.

Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 06:58 PM (7UW64)

398
Maxine Waters giving national address after State Of The Union...

Now THIS I gotta see
Posted by: sofa saver

Is it the "official response" to the SOTU or just a random crazywoman comeback?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 26, 2018 06:58 PM (IqV8l)

399 My love was deep for this Mexican maiden
-------------------

Spanish is a lovin' tongue
Soft as music, light as spray
There was a girl that I learned it from
Livin' down Sonora way

I don't look much like a lover
But I say her love words over
Mostly when I'm all alone
"Mi amor, me corazon"

Well on the nights that I would ride
She would listen for my spurs
Throw the big door open wide
Raise those laughin' eyes of hers

How those hours get to flyin'
All too soon I'd hear her sighin'
In her little sorry tone
"Mi amor, me corazon"

Well I ain't seen her since that night
I can't cross the line you know
They want me for a gamblin' fight
Like as not it's better so

Still I've always sort of missed her
Since that last sad night I kissed her
I lost my heart and left her own
"Adios me corazon"

Posted by: Ian Tyson at January 26, 2018 06:58 PM (nBBdT)

400 Welp, no point reading AoS the rest of the night.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at January 26, 2018 06:58 PM (fVubI)

401 Where do we go from here? Which way is the cash bar???

Posted by: Tentotwo at January 26, 2018 06:58 PM (yhf6w)

402 Any post that includes the words "Allahpundit was rihht" makes me say "We'll see".

He doesn't have much of a track record.

Posted by: Dave_in_Fla at January 26, 2018 06:58 PM (qkuN+)

403 >>
PS: Deport them all is a bumper sticker not a reality.

Oh hai! !jeb

Posted by: Under Fire at January 26, 2018 06:59 PM (r9UYA)

404 Fish heads, fish heads - eat *em up - yum!

End musical interlude.

Posted by: Archer at January 26, 2018 06:51 PM (gbWkA)

You MIGHT've missed a verse or 2.

Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:59 PM (Zz0t1)

405 https://donsurber.blogspot.com/2018/01/trump-forces-dems-on-immigration.html

just saying

Posted by: Trumps Thong at January 26, 2018 06:59 PM (UvQXJ)

406 Ace continues to have a blind spot on Trump (or he's trolling us)/

Trump isn't a saint. I didn't use to like him personally, but thought he'd be an effective tool.

I now like and respect him for taking a lot of personal risk to take on the fight for us.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 26, 2018 06:59 PM (pV/54)

407 >>> Mexico is a very class stratified country. At the top are people of full European Spanish Ancestry. At the bottom are the mixed race Indian & Spainish people. These are the ones that come here illegally. Very poor and illiterate. This is also mostly true for the other countries in Central and South America.

I saw the Laura Ingraham interview with Vincente Fox, he was there to plug a new book. How she managed to restrain herself and not slug him I don't know. Absolutely no acknowledgement that he helped screw up his country while in office and thus forced the hand of his people to risk life and limb escape the country for the chance at a better life. No remorse, and yet still claims to love them.

What a monster. Buy his book!

Posted by: LizLem at January 26, 2018 06:59 PM (hvf9s)

408 Great moral character ya got there, ya lefties

Politics ends at the tight sweater's edge.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at January 26, 2018 06:59 PM (fuK7c)

409 You're forgetting one thing here, folks. This problem will be resolved organically. The science is settled.
Posted by: Fritz at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (bJ0w+)

What happens when California runs out of water. It was just in the news a day ago. Cape Town runs out of drinking water in about a month or so. California cities are about to run out of water.

It will cause of flood of refugees, dirty, unwashed, thirsty refugees fleeing the drought for other states which will be over run with refugees. The US will be like Europe, over run with asylum seekers bringing their own culture and changing the Red States to Socialist shitholes. We'll turn in to Venezuela. There won't be any money to pay Social Security and all the old people will die.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at January 26, 2018 06:59 PM (O+THj)

410 Is it the "official response" to the SOTU or just a random crazywoman comeback?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 26, 2018 06:58 PM (IqV8l)

I thought the "official" retort was going to be Joe "the future of the Dem party" Kennedy.....

Posted by: Sponge at January 26, 2018 06:59 PM (Zz0t1)

411 Think about this...

DACA's were protesting at Schumers Office, and shouting down Nancy Pelosi...

The Left is made up of radically different competing groups, who came together because the Evil Republicans won't do what we want...

splinter that coalition, and they are done...

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 26, 2018 06:59 PM (NgKpN)

412 Just popping in to say I love the Drudge headline, "Donald Does Davos."

Posted by: bluebell at January 26, 2018 06:59 PM (kNasr)

413 Is it the "official response" to the SOTU or just a random crazywoman comeback?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 26, 2018 06:58 PM (IqV8l)

Is there a diff ???

Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 07:00 PM (4u7kU)

414 369 I did not think it possible but neverskankles makes me miss BSG.

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (2DOZq)

I'd like to try to see if I miss them both....

Posted by: Tami at January 26, 2018 07:00 PM (Enq6K)

415 >>Maxine Waters giving national address after State Of The Union...

Now THIS I gotta see
Posted by: sofa saver

It should be better than the Hollywood cranks response.

Posted by: Under Fire at January 26, 2018 07:00 PM (r9UYA)

416 -If- the Democrats make attempts to actually pass this as written, which I don't believe for a second, have hardcore Senators like (snerk) Marco Rubio vote against it until changes are made. Start with Ted Cruz and work your way down. Be nice if our supposed sentinels actually delivered on their posing.

Posted by: trev006 at January 26, 2018 07:00 PM (jRA31)

417 Someone must have decided Nikki Haley is a threat. CNN is going wall to wall with "Haley denies 'disgusting' rumor of affair with Trump"
Posted by: Dave_in_Fla at January 26, 2018 06:53 PM (qkuN+)

She is a threat because DJT entrusted her to not take any shit from the UN turds and she's done exactly that in a high exposure way. The DNC may as well be called the D and C when it comes to the gynecological nightmares they have smearing up everything they sit on.

Posted by: Captain Hate at January 26, 2018 07:00 PM (y7DUB)

418 ...btw, I thought prevailing wisdom of 2015-16 was that the WALL was the only thing that mattered in the end. To but an end once and for all to wide-scale illegal immigration. Now... we are to believe its really about LEGAL immigration reforms?

Posted by: Serious Cat at January 26, 2018 07:00 PM (NUtAO)

419 >>Someone must have decided Nikki Haley is a threat. CNN is going wall to wall with "Haley denies 'disgusting' rumor of affair with Trump"

They are throwing out a lot of chaff right now as the corruption in the Obama administration is about to explode. Same thing as the blockbuster last night that Trump was considering firing Mueller 7 months ago.

It looks like we have our first known media figure in the collusion now, Devlin Barrett of the WaPo formerly of the WSJ.

I bet we are going to see them going crazy, crazier than usual over the next few weeks.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 26, 2018 07:00 PM (/tuJf)

420 Just popping in to say I love the Drudge headline, "Donald Does Davos."

Posted by: bluebell at January 26, 2018 06:59 PM (kNasr)

Along those lines, there is a movie we could watch together? Wink Wink. LOL

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 07:00 PM (SjImc)

421 332 Corey Booker is flapping is gums while POTUS is in the air flying home from a successful Davos trip.

-
Corky has really set his hair on fire this last couple of weeks. And he has none on his head so . . .

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History at January 26, 2018 07:00 PM (w/e2n)

422 359 I also think Trump has played Schumer like a chicken with a bad haircut. He knows they would never accept his offer so the risk in making the offer was very low. When February 8th rolls around he jams the whole thing down Schumer's throat. All people will remember is that Trump made them an offer and the demos are right back to putting illegals before Americans.

Posted by: Weasel at January 26, 2018 06:51 PM (Sfs6o)

Frankly, I'm sick of hearing about them. It's non-stop oh what will happen to the wittle dreamers?

I DON'T CARE.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 26, 2018 07:00 PM (4ErVI)

423 I was horrified when I heard about this supposed proposal, and want to think Trump knows what he is doing, but I think the best thing we all can do is MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD. Burn down the phone lines, fill up the inboxes and knock on the office doors of our reps and anyone else who may have influence. Call the talk shows, comment on the right, center and leftie sites. Write letters to the editors. Just don't sit back and hope for the best. Immigration is everything. We cave here, all is lost.

Posted by: Just wondering at January 26, 2018 07:01 PM (X+xEf)

424 Trump has been the best (only) Republican on immigration since Eisenhower, but I still have doubts when it comes to his love of the photo op.

But Democrat donors will not allow any deal that makes Trump look good, even if its basically everything they want. They couldn't stand the optics of him standing next to a wall.

Posted by: Apache at January 26, 2018 07:01 PM (uc45P)

425 410 Is it the "official response" to the SOTU or just a random crazywoman comeback?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 26, 2018 06:58 PM (IqV8l)

I understand that Jomika are gonna sing a duet response

Posted by: sofa saver at January 26, 2018 07:02 PM (4u7kU)

426 Whoo whoo woooo beep beep beep whirr whirr whirr
looop looop looop weeeeeeep a a uh uh weessssssh

Posted by: freakedbot at January 26, 2018 07:02 PM (UdKB7)

427 Dack, 'tis a consumation devoutly to be wished (enforcement of deportation against "dreamers").

But it's not gonna happen.

But that's OK. What *could/should* happen (as I've been saying forever) is an expansion of ICE's enforcement priority list.

Up to now the administration made it clear it was prioritizing violent criminals, gangs, and serial serious immigration abusers. Fine. Saves lives, plays well with all.

Well now it's time to unleash ICE against a larger target array. The obvious, efficient, leveraged and politically golden target: large known employers of illegal labor. Meat packers. Others. Not raids - sit downs, where these companies are informed they have a short glide-path to legal labor forces, heck DHS will even help relocate the illegals back to their home countries - but within X months, that's it. THEN the raids happen.

No company will be stupid about this. They'll play along. And the demonstration effect on other illegal-rich sectors will be powerful.

If this were done, with some energy, I think it's plausible you'd see a material impact on low- and unskilled wage-rates in the US, even by November. That's "overnight", in economics terms, and unusual - but plausible in this case.

What's not to love?

Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 07:02 PM (QDnY+)

428 But Democrat donors will not allow any deal that makes Trump look good, even if its basically everything they want. They couldn't stand the optics of him standing next to a wall.
Posted by: Apache at January 26, 2018 07:01 PM (uc45P)

I'm banking on it

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 07:02 PM (SjImc)

429 She is a threat because DJT entrusted her to not take any shit from the UN turds and she's done exactly that in a high exposure way. The DNC may as well be called the D and C when it comes to the gynecological nightmares they have smearing up everything they sit on.

Posted by: Captain Hate at January 26, 2018 07:00 PM (y7DUB)

Yeah she's really taken to the task at hand. I wonder if Trump asked her if she can do resting bitch face and she said sure can!

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 26, 2018 07:02 PM (4ErVI)

430 Great moral character ya got there, ya lefties

Politics ends at the tight sweater's edge.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at January 26, 2018 06:59 PM (fuK7c)

*adds name to transgender dragon's list*
*extra jewel frying*

Posted by: Professor Chaos, Gumdrop Gorilla Channel at January 26, 2018 07:02 PM (qz18B)

431 The racial hatred between the natives and the Spaniards in Central America explains pretty much everything about why those countries are shitholes.

My son is 98.99% Mayan. In Guatemala, you have to pay to get an education, of any kind. Girls can go without, remain illiterate, and become ladies maids or the like (read: prostitutes, etc.). Boys cost money. So they are given up for adoption, because the native population can't afford to pay for boys to learn to read and write.

There is money for education from the government, but it is used for graft and personal enrichment. Corruption is so blatant it isn't even commented upon.

Shitholes.

Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 07:02 PM (7UW64)

432 More immigration means more consumption, means more carbon emissions. We cannot allow America's compassion to lead the world, remarkably, inevitably, unsustainably toward global doom. The science is settled.

Posted by: Fritz at January 26, 2018 07:02 PM (bJ0w+)

433 Along those lines, there is a movie we could watch together? Wink Wink. LOL
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 07:00 PM (SjImc)
--------------

I hope you're thinking of something like The Sound of Music, Mr. NGU.

Posted by: bluebell at January 26, 2018 07:02 PM (kNasr)

434 Taking a break from packing (t-minus 5 days and counting) to see if we're lighting our hair on fire.

Glad to see most of us are not. I'll put away the lighter fluid and matches.

Fox News blows, man. It's like watching CNN. Cuck Wallace accusing PDT of obstruction of Justice right now.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at January 26, 2018 07:03 PM (ul9CR)

435 Heh.

Just drove down the Seattle waterfront and you'll never guess what I just spotted.

Canada's Navy ship.

Singular.

How the mighty have fallen.

Posted by: Sharkman at January 26, 2018 07:03 PM (Kge8X)

436 I was purchasing a car a few years back. I made my offer. The seller did not like my offer and rejected it out of hand. 2 weeks went by. Seller calls me and says "Yeah, you can have it for that." I said no, I wasn't all that interested anymore and I ended up getting the car for less than my original offer.

Have patience.

Posted by: cfo mom at January 26, 2018 07:03 PM (RfzVr)

437 I wonder how many of the Dreamers cannot speak their home countrys language?

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at January 26, 2018 07:03 PM (2DOZq)

438 Maxine Waters giving national address after State Of The Union...
--------------
"Argle bargle, argle bargle. Argle bargle!"

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 26, 2018 07:03 PM (Zdm89)

439 I hope you're thinking of something like The Sound of Music, Mr. NGU.

Posted by: bluebell at January 26, 2018 07:02 PM (kNasr)

Cough , Yes that's the one.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 07:03 PM (SjImc)

440
It will cause of flood of refugees, dirty, unwashed, thirsty refugees fleeing the drought for other states which will be over run with refugees. The US will be like Europe, over run with asylum seekers bringing their own culture and changing the Red States to Socialist shitholes. We'll turn in to Venezuela. There won't be any money to pay Social Security and all the old people will die.
Posted by: Skandia Recluse at January 26, 2018 06:59 PM

No Blade of Grass is on TCM at 1:30am

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066154

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 26, 2018 07:04 PM (IqV8l)

441 But yesterday ... I was an Amnesty Hawk Tru-Con for calling bullshit on this deal ? Is that how it works ?

The only way this offer works is if Tom Servo is right ... that it's a bluff Schumer won't call. Good chance Tom is right.

But we're fucked if Tom's wrong.

Posted by: ScoggDog at January 26, 2018 07:04 PM (fiGNd)

442 >>> The great Marty Robbins. He did a bunch of gunfighter songs.

Beautiful voice in the El Paso song, especially in the sweeping parts like the "pain in my siiiiiiiiiiide..." bit. Lovely.

Posted by: LizLem at January 26, 2018 07:04 PM (hvf9s)

443 An old cowboy went riding out one dark and windy day
Upon a ridge he rested as he went along his way
When all at once a mighty herd of red eyed cows he saw
A-plowing through the ragged sky and up the cloudy draw
Their brands were still on fire and their hooves were made of steel
Their horns were black and shiny and their hot breath he could feel
A bolt of fear went through him as they thundered through the sky
For he saw the riders coming hard and he heard their mournful cry
Yippie yi ooh
Yippie yi yay
Ghost riders in the sky
Their faces gaunt, their eyes were blurred, their shirts all soaked with sweat
He's riding hard to catch that herd, but he ain't caught 'em yet
'Cause they've got to ride forever on that range up in the sky
On horses snorting fire
As they ride on hear their cry
As the riders loped on by him he heard one call his name
If you want to save your soul from hell a-riding on our range
Then cowboy change your ways today or with us you will ride
Trying to catch the devil's herd, across these endless skies
Yippie yi ooh
Yippie yi yay
Ghost riders in the sky
Ghost riders in the sky
Ghost Riders in the sky

Posted by: LizLem at January 26, 2018 07:04 PM (hvf9s)

444 I have no idea how this really plays out. We are in uncharted waters and this mueller thing hangs over everything. It's a good thing I mostly work 7 days a week so I don't have to think about this crap all day every day. LOL
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 06:44 PM (SjImc)

Copy that!

I popped awake at 5AM with a wicked jagged-glass cough, hella stuffy, feels-like-flu, so I worked from home today, and was able to delve more deeply into the issues today.....

Prolly take the weekend off, stop blowing out my BP while I got some sort of RUSSIAN BOT in my bloodstream......

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:05 PM (br2jI)

445 Cough , Yes that's the one.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 07:03 PM (SjImc)
-----------

Good. I thought so.

Posted by: bluebell at January 26, 2018 07:05 PM (kNasr)

446 splinter that coalition, and they are done...

Posted by: Don Q'Bot at January 26, 2018 06:59 PM (NgKpN)

Trump is something of a daisy-cutter in that milieu.

Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 07:05 PM (7UW64)

447 '2 weeks went by. Seller calls me and says "Yeah, you can have it for that." '

Ah the pawn shop strategy.

Posted by: freakedbot at January 26, 2018 07:05 PM (UdKB7)

448 I did not think it possible but neverskankles makes me miss BSG.
Posted by: Roc Ingersol at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (2DOZq)

Seconded.

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:05 PM (br2jI)

449 I thought some Kennedy family kid was doing the official response ... Maxine will probably do her screeching for her own audience.

Clinton Bush ... hey, let's try something new ... a Kennedy.

Posted by: illiniwek at January 26, 2018 07:06 PM (bT8Z4)

450 Maxine Waters' address will be on a "news special" on BET.

And I don't have cable. Darn.

Posted by: bluebell at January 26, 2018 07:06 PM (kNasr)

451 Wow, trying to chum the waters with "Nikki Does Don"? WTF? WTFF?

JackStraw is surely right.

This is approaching April 1945 Berlin panic, I think. (yes, my analogy was chosen carefully)

If the corruption and degradation it's revealed/confirmed weren't so catastrophic, I'd find it entertaining.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 07:06 PM (QDnY+)

452 Hope Hicks in those Daily Mail Davos pics...rrrrrrow!

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at January 26, 2018 07:06 PM (ul9CR)

453 President Trump was just offering this so the Dems would fall all over themselves refusing it.

He likes to fuck with them.

1000+ this. Trump has made them show that they want no fix. The Dems only want a campaign issue.

Posted by: free tibet, with purchase of equal or greater value tibet at January 26, 2018 07:06 PM (9hHff)

454 >>The only way this offer works is if Tom Servo is right ... that it's a bluff Schumer won't call. Good chance Tom is right.

Yep. In fact he is right, and was right, right out of the box. And Legal Insurrection's 'Rags' can suck on it.

Trump Rocks. MAGA

Posted by: Multi-Blog Lurker at January 26, 2018 07:06 PM (ZT3h0)

455 Well I certainly believe Mark and Allapundit would never lead us astray/

Posted by: MAC SOG and nothing will happen at January 26, 2018 07:07 PM (czkHE)

456 Maxine Waters giving national address after State Of The Union

Hot damn! A circus and a train wreck!

Posted by: Notorious BotFD at January 26, 2018 07:07 PM (Tyii7)

457 Not coincidentally, WeaselAcres (aka Happy Place Farm) occupies high ground. Let the collapse begin!

Posted by: Weasel at January 26, 2018 07:07 PM (Sfs6o)

458 Maxine Waters giving national address after State Of The Union...

What a shame that ridicule is a most powerful weapon against the Left.

Posted by: t-bird at January 26, 2018 07:07 PM (cW490)

459 Even Trump needs a dick punch every now and then.

Posted by: Monk at January 26, 2018 07:07 PM (g4lFK)

460 Beautiful voice in the El Paso song, especially in the sweeping parts like the "pain in my siiiiiiiiiiide..." bit. Lovely.

Posted by: LizLem at January 26, 2018 07:04 PM (hvf9s)

I love how he sings that song.

Posted by: DR.WTF? at January 26, 2018 07:08 PM (T71PA)

461 I think that a major problem for many Republicans is that they automatically assume that all policy proposals should made seriously.

Without going into the stable genius bit, I do think that Trump's modus operandi is explained by game and his Art of the Deal. Floating this idea is specifically to counteract the "racist" stereotype to the normies that Dem's have been trying to wrap around Trump's neck since 2015. From what I have seen on immigration polling, there is a wide squishy middle that sways from side to side depending on question wording, information in the question, and so forth. Deport them all as a policy position, probably might attract about 1/3 of the nation at best with another 1/3 dramatically opposed. The battle will be over the middle 1/3 who don't like a lot about immigration policy effects, especially illegal, but don't want to be seen as unsympathetic and/or racist.
Trump is running a push pull game with his followers (go back and review the tax bill for example) where you fear he will give up the store but then he relieves the tension. He treats the Dems (and other critics) like girls with constant negging

It accomplishes two things, first that it makes it harder for Lindsay, Rubio, et al. to join with the Dems giving up everything which is what the Senate Republicans in the gang of six wanted to do--remember. Second, the Dem's holy grail is open borders forever (similar to their demands of no boundaries on slavery before the Civil War come to think of it). This proposal makes them own the extreme by flushing them out which might be very harmful to Dem candidates in swing states, especially Senate races.

Trump's ability to walk away from this as it was floated as a trial balloon does not warrant caterwauling--betrayal--all is lost.

Krikorian and Coulter have been raging about immigration for years yet their dialectic based speech did nothing to move the Overton window. Other than stopping the 2006 Bush proposal--neither even focused on Cantor which stopped the 2013 race.

Trump has moved it significantly to the right using nothing by rhetoric. Since the 1990's, no serious proposal for immigration changes by Republicans outside of Tom Tancredo perhaps contemplated severely limiting chain migration, getting rid of the diversity lottery, or even seriously thinking about border security, etc. Until Trump. For me, he is a Republican that acts like a democrat, he misdirects, he misleads, he blusters, he attacks, he moves quickly, which prevents the Dems from putting him in a box and using their media power to frame his actions negatively. By having multiple positions on everything, it makes it hard to concentrate on a common policy narrative for the Dems. Example is using the Dreamers as a wedge to broader immigration amnesty. Remember, some estimates have over 20-30 MILLION illegals versus perhaps maybe 1.5-2 million. If the Dems turn it down, then Trump simply returns to status quo on the 800000 which also freezes any future applicants (DACA registration is closed from what I understand even after court orders).

He learns the game of politics pretty quickly and we haven't had someone that good in years on communication.

Posted by: whig at January 26, 2018 07:08 PM (acrHV)

462 Ghost Riders in the sky
Posted by: LizLem at January 26, 2018 07:04 PM (hvf9s)

Another all-time great. Used to occasionally hear that one on the radio as a kid, late at night, waiting to go to sleep (had insomnia even back then). Haunting.

Just thought of another one:

Hoyt Axton

Della and the Dealer and the dog named Jake and the cat named Kalamazoo.

Dang. Now I'm definitely doing an old timey country music binge this weekend.

Posted by: PugBot Mahon at January 26, 2018 07:08 PM (xPJvm)

463 So the chain migration is kept in for current applications at 235,000 per year then ended after 17 years.

Not sure about the lottery.

The only number here is the total immigration per year deal vs. no deal.

The system changes to merit based almost immediately outside the chain migration phase out

Posted by: MAGA at January 26, 2018 07:09 PM (LnOh3)

464 Bloop
Bloop
squank squank squrnk fizzizt

Crap

Hold on while I reboot myself.

Posted by: freakedbot at January 26, 2018 07:09 PM (UdKB7)

465 We can haz 3 hour early ONT pleazeee?

Posted by: Exile at January 26, 2018 07:09 PM (Fikbq)

466
I did not think it possible but neverskankles makes me miss BSG.

Where have you gone Mr. Moo Moo, a blog turns its lonely eyes to you

Woo woo woo

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 26, 2018 07:09 PM (IqV8l)

467 This is approaching April 1945 Berlin panic, I think.

-
Gotterdemarung

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History at January 26, 2018 07:10 PM (w/e2n)

468 Maxine Waters giving national address after State Of The Union.

Don't toy with me.

This would be a glorious trainwreck.

Posted by: Professor Chaos, Gumdrop Gorilla Channel at January 26, 2018 07:10 PM (qz18B)

469 Not coincidentally, WeaselAcres (aka Happy Place Farm) occupies high ground. Let the collapse begin!
Posted by: Weasel at January 26, 2018 07:07 PM (Sfs6o)

Heh. ScoggCienda doesn't occupy any particularly attractive Real Estate.

Factor in the human cost of capturing my Gun Cabinet ... and I'd say it's the least attractive property on the Anarchy Board.

Posted by: ScoggDog at January 26, 2018 07:10 PM (fiGNd)

470 What else are you going to do about that? Cancel applications already submitted? Seems kinda cruel. Not to mention such an action may not even pass legal challenge.
Posted by: Serious Cat at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (NUtAO)
_______________________

Yes, you cancel them. Or you delay processing them until after the backlog caused by processing 1.8 million amnesty applications has been resolved -- i.e., in another 10 years or so.

This is a sovereign nation, not some giant f*cking charity. We are not obligated to let in anyone who fills out an application, just like we're not obligated to give amnesty/work permits/citizenship to every 10 or 20 or 30 million who sneak in here illegally.

Immigration policy needs to be based on the best interests of Americans. Period. Not the best interests of poor foreigners, or relatives of foreigners. Americans.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at January 26, 2018 07:10 PM (fqUgw)

471 458
Maxine Waters giving national address after State Of The Union...

What a shame that ridicule is a most powerful weapon against the Left.

Posted by: t-bird at January 26, 2018 07:07 PM (cW490)
Seriously?? LoL, the crazy will be on full display.

Posted by: IC at January 26, 2018 07:10 PM (a0IVu)

472 Just drove down the Seattle waterfront and you'll never guess what I just spotted.

Canada's Navy ship.

Singular.
------------

Hmf. Less than the Texas Navy.

Presumably, all of the gun owners here know about the Battle of Campeche.

Posted by: Edwin Moore at January 26, 2018 07:10 PM (ZpfqO)

473 Charlie Walker "Pick Me Up on Your Way Down"

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ybw5rzbf

I once knew a girl this could have been written about. But isn't that the way with all great country songs?

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at January 26, 2018 07:10 PM (ul9CR)

474 I hope Trump lays the wood to Congress at the State of the Union Song and Dance Gong show and then Maxine Waters shrieks 'Impeach'.

Kabuki cymbals crash.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at January 26, 2018 07:10 PM (O+THj)

475 Yes, I'm sure Trump's many fervent supports within the GOP DC Congressional Establishment will be writing a really fine yuge bill that actually does what the President wants, they'd never seek cooperation or input from their "friends" across the aisle (all of whom have the same Chamber of Commerce number on speed dial).
Posted by: Hrothgarevitch BOT at January 26, 2018 06:47 PM (gwPgz)

Understood.

But again, just like Trump rejected the shit deal from Durbin and Miss Lindsey, he would not sign a shit bill regardless of how much "chocolate sauce" they put on it....

H/T Nancy Peeloosly

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:11 PM (br2jI)

476 I couldnt read past the "President Kamala Harris" part.

The thought is literally mind-numbing.

Posted by: Foreign Born Terrorists at January 26, 2018 07:11 PM (EZebt)

477 I hope Trump is just playing them but if he is not , and he is willing to compromise more than I would like, I see being mad but not mad enough to abandon him. I know for sure though he will not give up the wall. Okay 99% sure.

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at January 26, 2018 07:11 PM (2DOZq)

478 The legal fig leaf for Obama's DACA EO was that it was about setting prosecutorial priorities about who got deported first. But then it went on to create a whole scheme to give substantive rights to Dreamers, made up out of whole cloth and contrary to laws already on the books.

And it wasn't even an EO! It was actually a Jeh Johnson HHS memo.

Scalia was poised to write the most scathing 5-4 opinion of his career (he expanded the issues addressed to cover the President's duty to faithfully execute the laws as written). It would have been epic!

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 26, 2018 07:11 PM (pV/54)

479 He was setting up the next shutdown for the Repubs to win. Dems say they will shut down for DACA...Trump already offers them DACA AND Citizenship and they TURNED HIM DOWN! What the heck are they gonna say on Feb 8? No, we didn't get exactly what we wanted, even though it was more than we asked for when we shut the government the 1st time, so we have to shut again??

It was a brilliant move to pre-emptively win the next shutdown...Trump's forcing them to have to defend the impossible, and he'll pull independents and federal A&AS contractors (the people who won't get paid, but still vote Dem usually for their jobs) away from the Dems without doing anything at all...

Posted by: kk at January 26, 2018 07:11 PM (5WKRz)

480 Marty Robbins > Maxine Waters

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History at January 26, 2018 07:11 PM (w/e2n)

481 Illegal alien sock off

Posted by: San Franpsycho at January 26, 2018 07:11 PM (EZebt)

482 no reason to trust Mark Krikorian more than Trump.
Posted by: --- .-. /-. --- - at January 26, 2018 06:51 PM (GFAq1)

100%

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:12 PM (br2jI)

483 455 Well I certainly believe Mark and Allapundit would never lead us astray/

Posted by: MAC SOG and nothing will happen at January 26, 2018 07:07 PM (czkHE)

The collected works of Allahpundit's political natterings will have as much influence in the public square as Lyndon LaRouche's, which is to say zero influence.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 26, 2018 07:12 PM (4ErVI)

484 whig, reading your comment I'm hearing "besides that, what have the Romans ever done for us???".

Killing the 2006 amnesty insanity was everything. So big - and because legit grassroots rebellion - it intimidated even the Obama crew into sticking to illegal, non-legislative gambits (DACA being the most infamous).

As I just noted earlier, 2009-2010, both houses, the WH - and the Dems didn't breathe a syllable of "immigration" or amnesty.

There's a reason for that. So the "raging against amnesty" by many, not just those you named, saved the country from disaster, not just in 2006.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 07:13 PM (QDnY+)

485 352
Child please. In Trumps world this is known as a bear hug offer. And Chuck refused.

What comes next?

Shrugs. Now youse can't leave.

Posted by: Regular joe at January 26, 2018 06:50 PM

Bear hugs were T Boone Pickens specialty. If you have a brain you say where to sign and can I have it in cash today. Schumer cares more about the future chain migrants that the already captured Dreamers.

Posted by: Lester at January 26, 2018 07:13 PM (LfJIn)

486 ...flapping 'is gums while POTUS is in the air flying home from a successful Davos trip.

I saw Trump land. His arms didn't even look tired.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 26, 2018 07:13 PM (H5rtT)

487 Posted by: ScoggDog at January 26, 2018 07:10 PM (fiGNd)
---------
I've been thinking a lot about the inaugural first shot down range. Definitely going to be the M1A.

Posted by: Weasel at January 26, 2018 07:13 PM (Sfs6o)

488 I don't worry about PDT or even fuckie chuckie or durbin...it's miss lindsey and that flake and their ilk that worry me

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 26, 2018 07:13 PM (SjImc)

489 Marty Robbins > Maxine Waters
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History at January 26, 2018 07:11 PM (w/e2n)

As it turned out ... Marty Robbins Aspirin Tin full of Nitro Pills > Marty Robbins.

Posted by: ScoggDog at January 26, 2018 07:14 PM (fiGNd)

490 443> I've seen the Outlaws like 10 times.

It's a shame a number of the original founders died. I believe Huey Thomason was awarded a Fender guitar honor before his death.

The dude could shred bigly.

Posted by: Deplorable Redneck Russian Botnik at January 26, 2018 07:14 PM (iiixZ)

491 What else are you going to do about that? Cancel applications already submitted? Seems kinda cruel. Not to mention such an action may not even pass legal challenge.
Posted by: Serious Cat at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (NUtAO)

Sorry, I am past caring about "cruel"...I just want to know exactly what law says those 4 million chain migration people get to come on in....

If it's there, fine.

But I really doubt it is.

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:15 PM (br2jI)

492 >>>Marty Robbins > Maxine Waters

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and the Wrecks Is History<<<

Nothing would please me more than to see Marty Robbins smack Maxine Waters on the forehead with his cock, but Marty was too much of a gentleman.

Posted by: Fritz at January 26, 2018 07:15 PM (bJ0w+)

493
Alternate Poat Title: Democrats are STUPID For Rejecting President Trump's Crazy Generous Offer

...And Why That's Good For Us

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at January 26, 2018 07:15 PM (k4Ha8)

494 I hope Trump is just playing them but if he is not , and he is willing to compromise more than I would like, I see being mad but not mad enough to abandon him. I know for sure though he will not give up the wall. Okay 99% sure.
Posted by: Roc Ingersol

_________

My hope is that its just to make Democrats look bad, but the wall to me was always just sort of boob bait.

I really don't know what a wall will do for the 30 million illegals already here.

I want it built, it would be pennies on the dollar, but is it really going to be a game changer?

Posted by: Apache at January 26, 2018 07:15 PM (uc45P)

495 I've been thinking a lot about the inaugural first shot down range. Definitely going to be the M1A.
Posted by: Weasel at January 26, 2018 07:13 PM (Sfs6o)

If having five loaded mags is wrong ... I don't wanna' be right.

Posted by: ScoggDog at January 26, 2018 07:15 PM (fiGNd)

496 465 We can haz 3 hour early ONT pleazeee?

Posted by: Exile at January 26, 2018 07:09 PM (Fikbq)

You'll get NOTHING and LIKE IT.

Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 07:15 PM (7UW64)

497 Dems *already* lost the shut-down playoffs, by a record score - or did I just imagine that.

Schumer's already signaled he's not reprising his disastrous performance for Feb. 8.

But continue to imagine that a DOA offer from the WH somehow boxes him in, when he has been boxed in (on this issue) for a decade.

Whatever.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 07:16 PM (QDnY+)

498 He learns the game of politics pretty quickly

Nice post, whig

Posted by: t-bird at January 26, 2018 07:16 PM (cW490)

499 I'd like to try to see if I miss them both....
Posted by: Tami at January 26, 2018 07:00 PM (Enq6K)

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:16 PM (br2jI)

500 Posted by: Weasel at January 26, 2018 07:07 PM (Sfs6o)

I have this vision of you in Josey Wales' cabin peering through the rifle slots as you sight downrange!

Posted by: Hrothgarevitch BOT at January 26, 2018 07:16 PM (gwPgz)

501 15 and smokin hot (can you be that at 15?) means shit compared to that.

Traci Lords was 15 when she started doing porn - so yeah it is certainly possible.

Posted by: An Observation at January 26, 2018 07:17 PM (mHhLb)

502 Hasn't Schumer already rejected the offer?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 26, 2018 07:17 PM (32tyq)

503 Gotterdemarung

Is that like Willemdemarest?

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 26, 2018 07:17 PM (H5rtT)

504 Any post that includes the words "Allahpundit was rihht" makes me say "We'll see".

Right!

Plus the last solid week of Alla-bashing...... but noooow.....

He's totes cool again! Because Kirk says so!

Meh. I'll wait for the actual bill.

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:18 PM (br2jI)

505 If having five loaded mags is wrong ... I don't wanna' be right.

Posted by: ScoggDog at January 26, 2018 07:15 PM (fiGNd)

"Unloaded mags"? These words do not belong together!

Posted by: Hrothgarevitch BOT at January 26, 2018 07:18 PM (gwPgz)

506 Weasel, can't you borrow an M1*Abrams* for the opening shot? There must be some in that region. Special occasion, so you can afford the cost of one round. (which will it be? HEAT, sabot-AP, or cannister?)

And if Grump's still here - have you fired the XD45 yet?

Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 07:18 PM (QDnY+)

507 The Collected Works of Enver Hoxha > The Collected Works of Allahpundit

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 26, 2018 07:18 PM (4ErVI)

508 Missed it by that much.

Posted by: Secret Agent Maxwell Struck (pronounced Strzok) at January 26, 2018 07:18 PM (9X60i)

509 Posted by: Apache at January 26, 2018 07:15 PM (uc45P)

I think it will be more than the naysayers think but less than the advocates believe.

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at January 26, 2018 07:19 PM (2DOZq)

510 Gotterdemarung

gesundheit

Posted by: That deplorable guy who always says... at January 26, 2018 07:19 PM (Tyii7)

511 500 Posted by: Weasel at January 26, 2018 07:07 PM (Sfs6o)

I have this vision of you in Josey Wales' cabin peering through the rifle slots as you sight downrange!
Posted by: Hrothgarevitch BOT at January 26, 2018 07:16 PM (gwPgz)
----------
Soon!

Posted by: Weasel at January 26, 2018 07:20 PM (Sfs6o)

512 The grandson of RFK is giving the response. He purports himself to be a champion of the working man. Sure, because when I think champion of the working man I think of a Kennedy asshole, born with a silver dick in his mouth.

Posted by: Duke Lowell, not a Russian bot, as far as you know at January 26, 2018 07:20 PM (gC2IV)

513 'Spanish is the Loving Tongue' was recorded by a who's who of the folkies:

"Spanish is the Loving Tongue" is a song based on the poem "A Border Affair" written by Charles Badger Clark in 1907. Clark was a cowboy poet who lived throughout the American West, and was named the Poet Laureate of South Dakota in 1937. The poem was set to music in 1925 by Billy Simon. Over the years, the song was recorded by many top recording artists, including Bob Dylan, Ian and Sylvia, Tom Paxton, Judy Collins, Marianne Faithfull, Emmylou Harris, Michael Martin Murphey, and The Chad Mitchell Trio (under the name "Adios, mi Corazon").

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 26, 2018 07:21 PM (FJXGr)

514 Hasn't Schumer already rejected the offer?
Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 26, 2018 07:17 PM (32tyq)

Yes ... but as this thing spins ... don't be surprised if the pressure gets put on to lay it out there again.

That's the danger of this. When things get nasty - and they will - Republicans will turn on Trump to Put That Deal Out There Again.

Posted by: ScoggDog at January 26, 2018 07:21 PM (fiGNd)

515
Democrats don't want to solve any of their self-created problems! Never!

Democrats don't want racial harmony!

Democrats don't want the poor to have jobs!

Democrats don't want illegals to be legal!

Democrats don't want the dumb to be educated!

If they did, they'd be out of Power!

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at January 26, 2018 07:21 PM (k4Ha8)

516 So what does Schumer do between now and the SOTU. Between now and when the funding CR ends.

He has no good move. Schmuck Schumer. Schlonged on his own petard.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 26, 2018 07:21 PM (pV/54)

517 We've seen this game before. Trump makes some very reasonable sounding noises during the negotiation and then a little while later he does what he wants and the opposition gets nothing. And each time the same girlish screams from the same people on the right tell us that we've been had.

Trump is not going to fuck us. The people that will fuck us are the GOPe senators, who will hold back their vote until they get amnesty. Trumps best bet in that case is to talk reasonably but do nothing, rather than sign a law that the voters hate.

Posted by: Mr Black at January 26, 2018 07:21 PM (4Szfi)

518
nood

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at January 26, 2018 07:21 PM (k4Ha8)

519 Late entry here, but I agree with those thinking we should give Trump the benefit of the doubt. Sure, an earlier position would be the starting position in future negotiations for anyone else, but Trump is sui generis. I suspect he knows exactly what he's doing.

After all, he just cleaved Steyer off from the Democrat mainstream, and that's no mean accomplishment.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at January 26, 2018 07:21 PM (j4Tea)

520 And if Grump's still here - have you fired the XD45 yet?

Just 50 rounds behind my FFL's shack.

Me likee.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 26, 2018 07:22 PM (WbIyz)

521 455 Well I certainly believe Mark and Allapundit would never lead us astray/
Posted by: MAC SOG and nothing will happen at January 26, 2018 07:07 PM (czkHE)

------------------------------------------------

I don't mind their criticism at all.

If some of us are right, that this is all about getting the democrats to reject the plan, then their criticisms will be even more useful. Even that dork Ben Shapiro thinks this offer was made to fail on purpose and he hates Trump.

Maybe Levin and Co. are right, and Trump will fold more, but until that happens I will keep the same opinion I had at the beginning. It was meant to fail.

Put yourself in the minds and feet of a Democrat politician trying to keep their leftist base on board. Would you vote for this if meant being called a racist sellout, and with real fears the leftist base might leave and form their own party.

It is not a two political party world anymore, it is in fact at least four parties masquerading as two.

Posted by: William Eaton at January 26, 2018 07:22 PM (MuTTO)

522 You'll get NOTHING and LIKE IT.
Posted by: tcn in AK at January 26, 2018 07:15 PM (7UW64)

Hey, you're plagiarizing my life story. Is that you shotgun joe?

Posted by: Exile at January 26, 2018 07:22 PM (Fikbq)

523 let's first accept the idea that our immigration laws were written by fucking communists who hate this nation and want to use it to change america.

let's then accept that american citizenship is important and should probably be reserved for people who are already here. like not showed up last year here but WWII here.

then you can accept we MUST change the laws to at least reflect the level of care most shitholes have towards their own citizenship.

no, we're not a nation of immigrants. All those immigrants you're talking about died about a 100 years ago. Then we changed the policy and had a homogenizing century until point #1 above, where commies rewrote our laws to weaken us.

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 07:22 PM (V3U1L)

524 What aggravates me the most is that some of the supposed Trump supporters now seem to want there to be a bad deal so they can say , see I told you so.

Not as bad as the anti war Left wanting us to fill the 10,000 body bags ordered for Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at January 26, 2018 07:22 PM (2DOZq)

525 what has this krikorian guy ever done for us? Trump has already made some serious contributions with judges and tax changes.
Posted by: --- .-. /-. --- - at January 26, 2018 06:55 PM (GFAq1)

AGAIN!! Spot ON!!

Why is this Kirk guy deciding ace's opinion on this again? Trust is one thing. But that article sites facts not in evidence, it's that dude's opinion, and really, is that what happens here? An opinion piece is posted somewhere and then ace cites it as the very reason he is now changing his opinion??

Something seems off there, just sayin'

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:22 PM (br2jI)

526 I don't want to think about amnesty any more. It upsets and depresses me.

Why? Because it doesn't matter what Trump does. He could build the wall himself, singlehandedly, and the next Uniparty president will order it torn down.

Trump is only one man, and the entire political, educational, and media establishment has made it their mission to destroy Western Civilization and turn the whole planet into the Third World which they will rule like the hereditary nobility of old. And they have made it quite clear that they don't care what the people of the West think, they're going to do it anyway.

Posted by: rickl at January 26, 2018 07:23 PM (sdi6R)

527 "15 and smokin hot (can you be that at 15?) means shit compared to that.

Traci Lords was 15 when she started doing porn - so yeah it is certainly possible.

Posted by: An Observation"

Knew a 15 yr old that was just under 6 ft tall and you would have sworn to God that she was no younger than 20. Hot as the sun. ( I was 20 at the time and stayed away from it)

Posted by: AshevilleRobert at January 26, 2018 07:23 PM (w+Jhj)

528
Flight of the Valkyries > Gotterdammerung

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at January 26, 2018 07:24 PM (O+THj)

529 Yes, border security ("wall") plays a crucial part, in *a package*. Internal enforcement is the other, bigger part. Both are weaker without the other there. There's some weird obsession people have to search for universes in which the barrier doesn't provide the obvious benefits it would, but I've given up on trying to understand that situation.

But that's just for big picture illegal immigration.

A secure border addresses lots of other problems. Ask San Diego law enforcement what they'd think if you tore down the barrier this weekend. Same for other border cities with barriers (one has just enhanced its barrier, already seen a dramatic change).

Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 07:24 PM (QDnY+)

530 The wall will be PDT's symbol of victory. He wants it and is gonna do his damnedest to get it.

Posted by: freakedbot at January 26, 2018 07:24 PM (UdKB7)

531
Sorry, I am past caring about "cruel"...I just want to know exactly what law says those 4 million chain migration people get to come on in....
____________________

The 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act that the corrupt a-hole Ted Kennedy pushed through congress, mainly by lying to the American public about what it contained, is responsible. The 1965 law eliminated the firm annual cap on green cards, eliminated the annual cap on green cards to immigrants' family members, and pushed immigration on the basis of "family reunification" rather than assimilation or marketable skills.

It was this 1965 legislation, which was horribly conceived and dishonestly sold to the public, which has been responsible for the explosion of immigration to the U.S. in recent decades, especially third-world immigration.

But since the right of chain migration was created by statute, it can be eliminated by statute also. And there is no good reason for doing it in a manner that takes decades.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at January 26, 2018 07:25 PM (fqUgw)

532 Has Mr. Krikorian ever discussed the force requirements and logistics necessary to round up millions of people and remove them to another country?

Asking for a friend.

Posted by: Queequeg the Harpooner at January 26, 2018 07:25 PM (9X60i)

533 The 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act that the corrupt a-hole Ted Kennedy pushed through congress, mainly by lying to the American public about what it contained, is responsible.

Man ... I'd make note of which generation voted that cocksucker in ... but it would be unappreciated here.

Posted by: ScoggDog at January 26, 2018 07:26 PM (fiGNd)

534 As many have said, nothing is definite. What I don't think many Americans understand is the difference between a resident and a citizen. The Demonicrats actually want to give immediate citizenship to anyone that steps over the border to bolster their flagging White support. Trump could give them residency and call it amnesty. And then enforce immigration law, remove government handouts, and build a wall. The Demonicrats could spin residency as amnesty, and Trump might even call it that. I'm mean, they have amnesty from being deported, right? Unless they break the law, which is enforcing immigration law. I was very disappointed in May by what I saw as Trump making mistake after mistake. In all honesty, none of those mistakes turned out to be mistakes. He destroyed Russian "collusion" and is in position to clean out the FBI, DOJ, and other alphabet agencies. If he builds a wall, he will have won, Won, WON.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at January 26, 2018 07:26 PM (9BLnV)

535 When in danger or in doubt
Run in circles, scream and shout.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at January 26, 2018 07:26 PM (oVJmc)

536 He learns the game of politics pretty quickly and we haven't had someone that good in years on communication.
Posted by: whig at January 26, 2018 07:08 PM (acrHV)

I would much rather sign up for your newsletter, sir, than the drivel offered by that apparently High Priest of Whatever Kirk Kirkorkian.

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:27 PM (br2jI)

537 MFM breathlessly reporting that Trump wanted Mueller fired last June but WH counsel refused to. Their source is NYT and WashPo. Trump leaving Davis said "fake news".

Posted by: Cheri at January 26, 2018 07:27 PM (JkFpA)

538 What I don't think many Americans understand is the difference between a resident and a citizen.

I'd say what you don't understand is the US Court System won't make the fucking distinction.

There won't be any such thing as a non-voting permanent citizen here. If they stay - they vote.

Posted by: ScoggDog at January 26, 2018 07:28 PM (fiGNd)

539 SSBN, Krikorian's analysis is very sound - but it doesn't take special genius to realize the basics are what they are. Not all "opinion" pieces are created equal - not even close.

And Krikorian's assuming for sake of argument that the proposal would be acted on - unless he does that, why even talk about it? He doesn't specialize in endless 1,548-dimensional tactical political b.s. talk (as we see here and elsewhere). He's just doing the substantive policy analysis.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 07:28 PM (QDnY+)

540 I'm in the "wait and see" category myself. Here we are, a year into his administration, and President Trump has exceeded my wildest imagination. During that same time, we have been gas-lit constantly about how he is going to betray the rubes that voted for him and every time that report ends up being proven to be bullshit.

I think Donny Two Scoops made Schumer an offer he can't refuse and Schumer said, "Fuck you, I want amnesty and open borders for ALL illegal aliens." Now President Trump gets to beat the Democrats about the head repeatedly about how they don't care about the "poor innocent DACA babies" and are just playing games with American sovereignty for votes. He is going to make those sanctimonious fvkcs squirm and the Lefty base go crazy.

This all about moving the Overton Window. Recent polling shows something like 4 out of 5 Americans wanting immigration reduced (if not ended). Politicians want to keep their jobs and want to give voters what the voters want. President Trump is setting up a binary choice for the politicians, reform immigration law for the benefit of America or seek other employment because the electorate is pissed at them.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at January 26, 2018 07:28 PM (5Yee7)

541 Queequeg we don't have to "round up" millions. But if you were familiar with the situation, and how enforcement and deportation work, you'd know that.

Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 07:31 PM (QDnY+)

542 That's the danger of this. When things get nasty - and they will - Republicans will turn on Trump to Put That Deal Out There Again.
Posted by: ScoggDog at January 26, 2018 07:21 PM (fiGNd)

And when you name the one time the GOPe pressured Trump to do anything he didn't want to do, I'll consider this point...

But so far?

Nope.

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:31 PM (br2jI)

543 It's MARK KRIkorian.

Do not confuse him with the late KIRK KIRKorian,
Vice President of The Studebaker Corporation.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 26, 2018 07:32 PM (H5rtT)

544 This was genius by Trump, offer them what they want knowing that they will say no because that would take away there biggest political lever, they will never abandon the illegal immigrant, if they do it's the end of the democratic party and Trump knows this.

Posted by: RiverRat1297 at January 26, 2018 07:33 PM (uWsUy)

545 Everyone needs a Casus belli, even when you are the good guys.

So the people who don't understand why you are the good guys can at least see your opponents as being the bad guys.

Posted by: William Eaton at January 26, 2018 07:33 PM (MuTTO)

546 And when you name the one time the GOPe pressured Trump to do anything he didn't want to do, I'll consider this point...

But so far?

Nope.
Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:31 PM (br2jI)

Do you ever wonder why the GOPe seems hell-bent on being the minority in 2018 ?

Ever think about it ?

Posted by: ScoggDog at January 26, 2018 07:33 PM (fiGNd)

547 and then, also, these poor kids, aged 12-39 were responding to the advertisements that the DNC.obama admin placed in south america to get them to jump on daca trains...with the promise of welfares and family reunification. fuck ems. deport. sad.

Posted by: zibbly wibbly at January 26, 2018 07:34 PM (V3U1L)

548 I tried to trade off a Sig P320F safequeen for a G19X today. guys laughed at me. I'd get drunk if not for work at o-dark early early tomorrow.

Posted by: Eromero at January 26, 2018 07:36 PM (zLDYs)

549 Posted by: rhomboid at January 26, 2018 07:28 PM (QDnY+)

And you make perfect sense, of course. I agree with what you have written

I just disagree with changing my opinion based on someone else's opinion on what essentially does not yet exist in this Universe.

No bill, no law, nothing but an offer that was rejected so- I decide to not care what someone think will happen based on that non-reality.

My question is- why would ace?

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:37 PM (br2jI)

550 I disagree. DACA/DREAMERS are the "Teen Beat" intellect talking points the left have used for a decade now TO SILENCE DEBATE. Trump offered more than 2 times what they requested, and the proglodyte response was to scream "RACIST!!!" and refuse... after all these tears of telling the dreamers this was their quinceneara, the party's canceled... because Schumer and company want more? This is an opportunity, folks. Stop the lottery, end chain migration, fund the wall (already approved, btw, but not funded...) this deal is a perfect chance to split dreamers from the dems.

Posted by: Sixgunsam at January 26, 2018 07:38 PM (W+16X)

551 There won't be any such thing as a non-voting permanent citizen here. If they stay - they vote.

Posted by: ScoggDog at January 26, 2018 07:28 PM (fiGNd)

Because after all, aren't we all just "residents" here?

Dayum, I've agreed with you twice today! Hmm

Posted by: Hrothgarevitch BOT at January 26, 2018 07:39 PM (gwPgz)

552 No "negotiation" winds up with terms more favorable to you than your original ask.

The original ask here is weak, and all subsequent negotiation will bring it further left.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:02 PM

I dunno. Anyone see the Kevin Costner movie "Draft Day"?

Early AM on draft day, Seahawks call up Costner, who is GM of the Browns, and offers him the #1 pick in the draft for his #1, next year #2 and following year #3.

Costner thinks about it and then responds by telling him, thanks but no thanks.

Then pressure is put on Costner by the Browns owner to "make a splash". So later in the day, Costner calls back SEA GM and says he'll take the deal.

SEA GM tells him that deal is now off the table. New deal is #1, next year #1 and following year #1.

Costner is beyond annoyed. But he ends up agreeing to the deal, because he has so much pressure on him to "make a splash".

The question I have is... is President Trump the SEA GM or Kevin Costner in this scenario? Considering it is reported that President Trump offered the Democrats this deal and they rejected it, seems like President Trump is the SEA GM...

And if you think about it, President Trump is in the same situation as the SEA GM. He doesn't *need* to make a move. It's the Democrats who want everything: DACA, increased immigration, no wall funding allocated, etc. So President Trump can just sit back and wait until the Democrats get desperate. And each time they come back to the table and reject an offer, he can just increase his demands in his next offer. The longer they keep playing their game of rejecting offers and trying to paint him in the media as the bad guy, the worse and worse the deal gets for them and better it gets for Trump.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at January 26, 2018 07:41 PM (7A4qQ)

553 Because after all, aren't we all just "residents" here?

I'm just a poor wayfaring stranger
Traveling through this world below
There is no sickness, no toil, nor danger
In that bright land to which I go

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 26, 2018 07:41 PM (WbIyz)

554 i don;t think any of them want a deal.

dems definitely no

Trump, whatever

miller not so sure either

Posted by: disguted by the elites at January 26, 2018 07:42 PM (rmcmS)

555 Could be Trump is distracting the Dems and media as the noose tightens on the traitors in the FBI.

Nice thought, anyway.

Posted by: Clinton at January 26, 2018 07:43 PM (UW4Uc)

556 Do you ever wonder why the GOPe seems hell-bent on being the minority in 2018 ?

Ever think about it ?
Posted by: ScoggDog at January 26, 2018 07:33 PM (fiGNd)

Sure I do.... guess now I'm wish casting that those bunch of CoC assholes will be put down by the combo of the OIG report coming out, the collapse of Mueller, and maybe even the Freedom Caucus growing a few real hairs on their sacks...

It could happen!

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:43 PM (br2jI)

557 Rhomboid,
I was one opposing that in 2006--called Reps, etc., but Coulter and Krikorian played little role in it. It was a grass roots uprising based on several different things including the worsening situation in Iraq, Bush's stupid leaked comment on equating opposition with racism, the inevitable corruption of Foley, Duke Cunningham, etc.

Look, Krikorian has an interest group and that interest group requires funding. He is a serious guy but he is somewhat constrained by his organization and funding.

Coulter makes her living being outrageous which is fine because it gives her a living and bombthrowers are needed now and again but their use in creating and implementing policy is not much. Both are what you would call ideologues. Not an insult as I am one too. Simply means that you have a firm world view on what works and causal mechanisms.

Right now, the immigration issue is no justice no peace--neither side has broken the status quo but the current status quo favors the Dems. Right now, leaving aside illegals, over 1 million per year with full chain migration of entire clans on the table. Legally, you cannot prevent someone from sponsoring their dear old uncle or cousin etc. The major roadblock has been ICE underfunding which dramatically slows paperwork consideration. There is no requirement to use E-verify on businesses, marginal border security, and many jurisdictions actively attempting to thwart immigration law enforcement.

Now, the Dems plan on regaining power in 2018 if not 2020 by leveraging rage against republicans for killing immigrant "dreamers" and being racist to boot. Forcing them to cast Dreamers aside to get the whole enchilada before the elections splits that narrative and demotivates Dem base. They are like the fire eaters before the South secedes--I don't think they can back down after raising their base's expectations for years. They have to have "comprehensive" and Trump is using that to split their coalition.

Will it work? Dunno, but his actions on tax policy and the government shutdown along with international policy seems to be pretty good. So I am not prematurely supporting what comes out nor rejecting it. I simply want to see actual bill proposals before getting too worked up. I have also seen trial balloons floated for years on policy which spurs reactions. It could be that Donnie floated that idea so that the Rep. base will get enraged, call their congress critter, and demand no amnesty. Then, the Golden Scalp Weasel can say "Chuckie dear, my voters would eat me alive if I did that based on the reaction to my floated proposal." Then nothing happens or Chuckie has to cave to a very limited deal. Push-pull remember.

In general, the question is what compromise (if any) should Republicans follow in order to permanently change the immigration law. Right now, I am not sure myself but note that in 2006--it was amnesty plus additional immigration that the GOP nearly did and it was a similar caving in 2013. The Don's proposal (which I personally don't favor all aspects especially eliminating e verify as a condition of employment), is still light years better than what was considered the standard GOP line in 06 and 13. Left to themselves, Ryan and McConnell would go back to that in a New York minute--thus the Donald, like it or not, has dragged his party a significant way toward reducing legal immigration and not rewarding most illegal immigrants.

Posted by: whig at January 26, 2018 07:44 PM (acrHV)

558 This blonde lesbian scrunt on McCallum's show wants DACA as a stand alone deal. Is she living in fantasy land, that ain't gonna happen w/ Trump's base you stupid fool.
Reps have been rolled on immigration more than once for future promises. Maybe, just maybe they've learned something from history.

Posted by: Farmer at January 26, 2018 07:44 PM (yJ1e6)

559 Ace: "The original ask here is weak, and all subsequent negotiation will bring it further left. "

This isn't a normal business negotiation. There's a dimension of politics and the optics of public perception.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 26, 2018 07:45 PM (pV/54)

560 No "negotiation" winds up with terms more favorable to you than your original ask.

The original ask here is weak, and all subsequent negotiation will bring it further left.

Posted by: ace at January 26, 2018 06:02 PM

This really will go down as a pretty big misfire.......

And I hate that. I love this place, I love reading Ace every day, so I say that with no joy...

And a lot of cold meds and wine.... so ....

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:45 PM (br2jI)

561 In chess terms, I think Trump made a strategic draw offer. He rightly figured the Dems would reject it. Now they'll make another banzai charge in a tactically dramatic way with the same results.

Posted by: WOPR (now with chainsaw bayonets) at January 26, 2018 07:46 PM (J70i0)

562 Lighten up, Francis.

Posted by: Jaqen H'ghar at January 26, 2018 07:47 PM (5fSr7)

563 Posted by: whig at January 26, 2018 07:44 PM (acrHV)

Yeah, seriously, you gotata newsletter pal?

Whoops... something else just kicked in..... not.sure.what.

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:48 PM (br2jI)

564 Thjink I messed a noood

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at January 26, 2018 07:49 PM (br2jI)

565 546
Do you ever wonder why the GOPe seems hell-bent on being the minority in 2018 ?

Ever think about it ?
Posted by: ScoggDog at January 26, 2018 07:33 PM (fiGNd)

I sure have.

So they can join forces with the Dem wing of the Uniparty for impeachment.

Posted by: rickl at January 26, 2018 07:50 PM (sdi6R)

566 Trump does not seem to negotiate like that, Ace. The deal he offered sucked donkey balls but it will not become the floor.

Posted by: redbanzai at January 26, 2018 07:54 PM (FTXAT)

567 Re 536 SSBN 656 (G)

Thanks for the kind words. I am just as much an ideologue as most but I worked in politics for years then studied it professionally. Still involved more or less at the local level. My hobby is reading political biographies and history and my day job exposes me to others with widely differing viewpoints.

It makes you realize several things, that because I feel deeply about something does not make the world do so. That is the same for crises. Calvin Coolidge once reportedly said that if you see ten troubles coming toward you down the road, chances are that nine of them will end up in a ditch before they reach you.

I will wait to see an actual bills passed before panicking.

Posted by: whig at January 26, 2018 07:55 PM (acrHV)

568 Also, open to not kicking DREAMERS out, not open to
citizenship. Does someone in Trump's world understand that if the
DREAMERs were citizens, he would have easily lost to Hillary?

I'd still be down for a deal if it corrects long term structural
problems with immigration and went after employers, but I think Trump
will give away the farm to pose in front of a wall model (that likely
will never be built)

Posted by: Maritime at January 26, 2018 06:01 PM (lKmt3)

I am not open to them staying... a) they are criminals and b) we don't need another large group of people not loyal to the US hanging around illegally voting and making the job market tighter.

Posted by: redbanzai at January 26, 2018 08:00 PM (FTXAT)

569 If Trump has proven anything to me in the last year, it's that he's much smarter than I thought he was. I'm not worried...yet.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at January 26, 2018 08:01 PM (l9m7l)

570 Mass baboon breakout shuts Paris zoo...

-
And Trump was in Europe. Coincidence?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I Robot, You Jane at January 26, 2018 08:03 PM (+y/Ru)

571 Easy to dismiss legal immigration because it's in the abstract, but not so
w/the illegals when we have names/faces of those "living in the shadows"
we've gotten to know IRL

So, what if the weak offer was *sure* to be rejected, and to embolden the left to the point where they [again] jump right past acceptance into #YouWillBeMadeToCare?

The backlash will outdo abortion gay super rights, D's would be slaughtered at the polls, and we'd finally get real border control.

Hey, it could happen!

Posted by: Amy Shulkusky at January 26, 2018 08:24 PM (3WAA4)

572 Trump is a genius. They will reject this very generous offer because their white hot hate Trumps everything else. POTUS then gets to beat them over the head with this offer while cancelling DACA LOL, LOL, LOL

He gets the wall through budget reconciliation without a single vote from the Dems.

At the end of the year, no DACA and a wall going up. Just in time for midterms and the Dems get another shellacking.

Posted by: magic8192 at January 26, 2018 08:29 PM (qZfBO)

573 Bravo, whig! Thank you for your cool-headed analysis.

And, oddly enough, I had been looking at Gillray political cartoons last week and wondered why Gillray who hated Napoleon and the French Revolution also hated Edmund Burke (beside for being Irish and accepting the lie/rumour he was a closet Papist) so I checked out Burke's Wiki and discovered Burke called his 'conservative' wing of the Whigs the "old Whigs" contrasted with the "New Whigs" revolutionary sympathizers under Fox. So I was thinking about the Whigs, UK ones at least, just recently too.

BTW, Gillray seemed to hate anyone who wasn't him, attacking everyone on all sides so I'm thinking he was an 18th Century Libertarian! :^)

Posted by: andycanuck at January 26, 2018 08:44 PM (ewxPW)

574 Christ on a crutch, calm down. Immigration hawks' favored political strategies have utterly failed for decades, so forgive me if I don't panic over maybe not failing yet gain. Comfortable failure isn't what we need right now. The hair-on-fire We Are Betrayed! business is getting embarrassing.

Posted by: GalosGann at January 26, 2018 08:55 PM (Dl9Eq)

575 To me, a key question is: Is this Trump's *actual* offer? Or is it what the MSM *says* is the offer?

If the latter, it would not be the first time that Trump leaked something to the MSM to test the waters, then backed off when the outcome was not to his liking. This approach lets him see how the marketplace reacts to an idea, while not handcuffing him to that position.

Also, if this is the MSM version, remember that they are reporting this because they believe it will hurt Trump. Bear that in mind.

As for me, I'll wait and see. Orange Hitler has been right too many times in the past two years for me to panic - at least, at this stage in the game.

Posted by: Brown Line at January 26, 2018 09:07 PM (S6ArX)

576 So what you're saying is ... you want Hillary to be President?

Posted by: Dave M at January 26, 2018 09:49 PM (sBwy3)

577 Main point is just like Trump presold blacks with the idea that Dems will ask for your vote, then say see you in four years, then when the vote scroungers came around, the black guys remembered the last time I saw these people was four years ago and stayed home, now DACAs learned that Dems don't care about them and said hell no when Trump offered to give them citizenship.

Posted by: MikeN at January 26, 2018 10:27 PM (o/eHL)

578 We're just conditioned to being sold out after so many years of it. President Trump is not going to sell us out. Relax.

Posted by: The Gipper Lives at January 26, 2018 11:07 PM (Ndje9)

579 I wouldn't trust anything someone says who thinks Kamala Harris is destined to be President.

Posted by: doug at January 27, 2018 12:00 AM (89il5)

580 I'm supposed to trust someone who has asked me to take pictures of burning MAGA hat?

He sounds like a planned parenthood zealot. No thanks, zealots get nothing done, so he is just going to let illegal immigration just continue. Grow the **** up!

Posted by: dude at January 27, 2018 01:20 AM (1V/O9)

581 Erick Erickson - The President's Immigration Compromise is Reasonable and Supportable https://buff.ly/2Gk07Rh

Posted by: Trigger Warning at January 27, 2018 03:01 AM (YRXy3)

582 This is not from the Onion. https://t.co/aGOJBPwL6x

California Governor's Debate moderated Jorge Ramos "hosted by Univision and the Latino Community Foundation presented an early opportunity for candidates to appeal to a community of voters who may prove pivotal in the campaign to choose a successor to Gov. Jerry Brown"

Posted by: Trigger Warning at January 27, 2018 03:11 AM (YRXy3)

583 Don't sell PDJT short.

Posted by: endisnigh at January 27, 2018 06:26 AM (7wQK9)

584 This offer was a wedge to democrats. If you can't see that, you shouldn't be doing hot political takes.

The stupid party is more stupid than I thought. We finally have a guy like Trump playing the game, and we get nonsense like this article in which the whole point of the offer flies right by his head.

Posted by: Reality Man at January 27, 2018 06:55 AM (Ch0fq)

585 Oh and If Allahpundit is right about the democrats being more brazen demanding open borders... let's see how that plays out for them at the polls.

Posted by: Reality Man at January 27, 2018 06:56 AM (Ch0fq)

586 People really need to stop looking at this from what it does to the Republican side... look at the damage being done to democrats. Schumer's base is proptesting him at his house - he's now backed into a corner. His base is going to be mad at him and the party, and worse yet - the moderate middle is seeing him and his party for what they really want - which is not a popular stance. They used to just be able to hide this stuff behind some nice fluff words about dreamers... but it's becoming obvious to the working class and the black population that democrats want more illegals coming here. We knew that, but not everyone knew that until watching Trump force their hand.

Posted by: Reality Man at January 27, 2018 07:05 AM (Ch0fq)

587 >>>>This offer, as weak as it is, now becomes the negotiating floor for future Democratic demands. This is where we start from -- and God knows where we finish.

that's Gope loser negotiating. Trump negotiating is different than that of a straight or a square. it's the negative takeaway style. when are people going to figure this out? hopefully the other side never does or they'll start taking his first offers, at which point he'll simply adapt.

Posted by: x at January 27, 2018 09:04 AM (nFwvY)

588 You lost me at Allahpundit

Posted by: Rooster Cogburn at January 27, 2018 09:17 AM (g/M9H)

589 Ace, go make a few extra extra large in NYC real estate and then start instructing PDJT in negotiation skills.

Posted by: phunctor at January 27, 2018 09:41 AM (lnK2O)

590 Setting the dreamer number way, way higher than the Dems could have ever dreamed is not the new baseline, and the number goes up from there-

Someone isn't thinking clearly. This is a deal too good to pass up, and Trump knows they'll pass it up anyway. He knows this isn't about the dreamers, it's about open immigration.

Posted by: Browndog at January 27, 2018 09:44 AM (Vem2B)

591 I'm glad to see the majority of the posters not buying into the sky is falling because the impossible purity test of Trump's was not met.

The reason that it would take 17 years (and probably more) to reduce legal immigration is that the deeply feared "Chain migration" is slow as hell. It also includes American citizens like me who marry foreigners, wait 3 years for the spouse to be a citizen, pay for all the USCIS fees, and petition for parents and siblings of their spouse. While parents aren't subject to a strict limit and generally only take 6 months to process, it'll be 24 years more (28 total) give or take for my wife's brother and sister (oversubscribed countries take longer). Oh and then to "chain" her brother's 4 children, take 28 years, add 5 years for him to get citizenship, spend $1680 in fees, then wait 28 more years. Invasion!

If Trump wants to limit legal immigration and make it merit based that's fine, but to give dreamers a pass then cut off legal immigration immediately really rewards law breakers. To reduce immigration will require 20 years of elected leaders with views similar to Trump, plain and simple.

Posted by: XFL Please at January 27, 2018 10:40 AM (AhmNR)

592 I think this is Trump leaving a $100 bill on the sidewalk. The Democrats will be afraid to pick it up because their base is insane.
Let him try this. I think it is all about the election.

Posted by: Mike K at January 27, 2018 11:52 AM (s170V)

593 "588.... You lost me at Allahpundit"
______________________________

Double down on this for me! If Ace is gonna rely on Allah for anything other than a few ironic, whacky laffs, then I gotta begin to seriously question Ace's sanity!

Posted by: Old Codger at January 27, 2018 01:08 PM (fpd99)

594 You were right the first time - he offered them everything they allegedly wanted, hanging conditions on it that no sane, law-abiding person could refuse.

They refused it.

Posted by: perturbed at January 27, 2018 05:23 PM (H/7ko)

595 I called this a sellout from the beginning, if for no other reason than this: experience.

Hey, give us amnesty now and we'll put money that's totally safe in this lockbox for a wall to be built...someday.

::a few months pass::

Hey, that money has now been moved to the general fund and we've pushed back the construction date again. Oh, and we've decided those people at the back of the line really deserve citizenship, so we're doing that and adding a few million more.

This is all Kabuki theater. Trump isn't rock solid on this issue and we know damned good and well the GOPers in Congress are not. They WANT amnesty, or at least the vast majority of them do.

Having said that, I'll offer the following counterpoint: suppose the Dems walk away from this deal. What then? The deadline for DREAMers is fast approaching. Do the Dems really want to run ads saying "Yeah, we could have had a deal, but we didn't want a wall or increased border security because we value illegals more than actual citizens"? Not sure they do, even in places such as California. And then the sanctuary cities take it on the chin legally and actual real enforcement begins. Hey, a guy can dream. In any event, this could blow up in the Dems faces because they simply will not accept anything except limitless, unfettered immigration plus amnesty.

Even with a wall, any deal that doesn't quadruple fines on businesses who hire illegals is a waste of ink and paper. Maybe it financially untenable for them to employ illegals, or they'll keep begging for more cheap labor. Oh sure, it creates a permanent underclass in this country, but hey, their lawns look great amirite?

If the GOP caves to the Dems on this again (Note: they will because they want to), the GOP will become a rump party.

Posted by: physics geek at January 27, 2018 07:08 PM (F/p+2)

596 Note to morons and moronettes:

Even if you THINK that Trump is playing 3D chess and running rings around the Dems with this "confuse 'em by giving them a big amnesty offer" deal, the CORRECT reaction is for conservatives to oppose the deal and demand "Goodlatte or nothing".
Goodlatte is a much better proposal with more solid
and quicker end to chain migration, wall, visa tracking, kate's law, Everify and a whole lot more than Trump has, and a limited DACA only amnesty (no citizenship!)

Here's why:
- It makes it clear Trump's is a CENTRIST PROPOSAL not a right-wing-racisty-makeAmericaWhiteAgain. It should be what Grhamnesty pushes were he not so light in the loafers
- It keeps LEVERAGE in terms of winning House Republicans, so the Trump proposal becomes the floor for Dem demands
- It keeps the better bill, Goodlatte in play. Yeah, weka Senate won't go for it, but it crystallizes that there ARE popular bills that are further on immigration enforcement and reform.
- It's a stopgap to avoid a runaway sham-nesty train, which is possible if Senate GOP takes this proposal and weakens it enough to get Dem votes.

Getting a weak bill through the Senate would be bad, but the House can rein that in, IF conservatives femand "Goodlatte or nothing."

Posted by: mustang sally at January 28, 2018 02:58 AM (qzEgY)

597 "Gope loser negotiating. Trump negotiating is different than
that of a straight or a square. it's the negative takeaway style."

NOPE. How many Democrat concessions has Trump gotten this way? ZERO.

" To reduce immigration will
require 20 years of elected leaders with views similar to Trump, plain
and simple."

Correct, which is why ANY deal should be a simply, small, limited deal. CANNOT TRUST ANYONE IN DC AND CANNOT TRUST THE FUTURE.

Posted by: mustang sally at January 28, 2018 03:03 AM (qzEgY)

598 In chess terms, I think Trump made a strategic draw offer. He rightly figured the Dems would reject it."

In chess terms, he sacrificed a rook for better positioning.

But actually, he didn't have to scrifice the rook at all!

Goodlatte bill was already there by House Republicans, he should have embraced that. Again, Dems would reject it but so? Still a deal on DACA with immigration reforms.

Posted by: mustang sally at January 28, 2018 03:06 AM (qzEgY)

599 343
im tired of the Right's constant knee-jerk Eeyore-inf. Yes, I
understand it's been ingrained in us from a longstanding pattern of
backstabbing.
"

It's tiring but understand. It's the ONLY THING that has kept us from amnesty!! Seriously, the House GOP under Boehner was SO eager to do amnesty off the 2013 bill but those pesky conservatives kept undercutting them.

Posted by: mustang sally at January 28, 2018 03:09 AM (qzEgY)

600 "470
What else are you going to do about that? Cancel applications already
submitted? Seems kinda cruel. Not to mention such an action may not even
pass legal challenge.

Posted by: Serious Cat at January 26, 2018 06:54 PM (NUtAO)"

Yes, you allow a years worth of backlog and the rest go in the hopper in the new, shiny, points-based 'merit' immigration queue.

It's a 10 year backlog which is bizarre, cruel and unbalanced as it is.

Posted by: mustang sally at January 28, 2018 03:11 AM (qzEgY)

601
Killing the 2006 amnesty insanity was everything. So big - and
because legit grassroots rebellion - it intimidated even the Obama crew
into sticking to illegal, non-legislative gambits (DACA being the most
infamous)."

Not true. The Dems neglected the immigration issue because they were laser-focussed on the BIG ENCHILADA - Socialized Healthcare.

They whiffed their climate bill and punted on immigration.
Then 2010 happened and it clipped O's wings on things.
They tried again in 2013 with the GOP-e's help but conservatives stood ground, Cruz / Sessions sniped at the Senate bill so much that it passed but was practically DOA in the GOP House. Still GOP-e has plans but when Brat defeated Eric Cantor it killed it.

Point: The battle is never over. It's not over now.

Now is the time though to get ending chain migration on the table.

Posted by: mustang sally at January 28, 2018 03:17 AM (qzEgY)

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