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House Republicans Pass Tax Bill; Senate Expected to Vote on Final Passage Tonight
The House passed the final version of Republicans' $1.5 trillion tax overhaul on Tuesday afternoon, by a vote of 227-203. Senate Republicans are now set to debate the bill and could vote Tuesday evening. That means that by the time many Americans go to bed on Tuesday, Congress may have passed Republicans' tax overhaul bill. The House vote fell largely along party lines. No Democrats voted in favor of the bill, as was the case when the House passed its initial version of the bill in November. Twelve House Republicans voted against the bill.A reader wrote to me to point out that while the corporate tax cut is permanent, the cuts to individual rates (achieved mostly by doubling the individual exemption) are only temporary and will, per the terms of the bill being passed, end in four years or so. That's true -- according to the text of the bill. However, I think we have to remember how this bill is being passed. It's being passed through the reconciliation process to avoid the Democrat filibuster -- which, of course, they would deploy, if they could. A bill cannot be passed through reconciliation if it increases the deficit in a ten year window. The bill is written to satisfy those terms -- with a vanishing individual tax cut in four years. On paper, it won't increase the deficit. Obamacare similarly gamed the reconcilliation process by featuring a full four years of tax increases before the six years of tax expenditures under Obamacare. Obamacare only satisfied the no-net-increase-in-deficit due to this gimmick of four years of tax hikes before the big payouts began. I think the "vanishing" individual tax cut is just a similar gimmick. Yes, it's supposed to expire in four years -- for purposes of being compliant with the Byrd rule on the filibuster-proof reconciliation process. But what I imagine they're thinking is that this is the most popular element in the tax plan, and therefore, in four years, it will either be passed anew or Democrats will reap the whirlwind by imposing a big tax hike on Americans. Now, yes, that last part does include the possibility that Democrats will fall on their swords, as they did to pass Obamacare, and cut the individual exemption in half, increasing everyone's taxes. But this seems to me to be a justifiable calculated risk. They probably won't have the guts to do that, and if they do, the odds that they'll lose the next following congressional elections -- and then we'll get the tax cut back -- are good. In addition, there is the outside chance that this big stimulus to the economy (isn't it strange liberals always forget that an economic stimulus can be achieved by tax cuts?!) will goose the GDP growth and increase wages and further lower the unemployment rate -- and substantially increase the GOP's standing with the public before the 2018 and 2020 elections. And they're going to need that. The generic congressional ballot is like 50/39 against them. Maybe this is even a poison pill for Democrats, an insurance policy in case they take the House in 2018. If they take the House, their rabid partisans will demand that they re-hike taxes. In time for the 2020 election. You take what you can, when you can. You take some chances to put yourself in a position to win, and then just hope for the breaks. Below, House Republicans talk up their victory:
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
Because I'm a good human being, my decency and goodness forbid my firsting here.
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Booking Agent, Aero Pinochet at December 19, 2017 03:53 PM (fA1SL)
2
Furst
Posted by: old jewish man at a cnn-themed mexican restaurant at December 19, 2017 03:53 PM (QCX64)
3
Worst.
Posted by: WitchDoktor, AKA VA GOP Sucks at December 19, 2017 03:54 PM (eytER)
4
So, who were the 12 so-called "Republicans" who voted against it?
Let me guess - high SALT districts in NY/NJ/VA and CA.
Let me guess - high SALT districts in NY/NJ/VA and CA.
Posted by: DocJ at December 19, 2017 03:55 PM (NYS7S)
5
You anti-Semite, #1!
Posted by: uncle leo defending his old jewish man friend at a cnn-themed mexican restaurant at December 19, 2017 03:55 PM (QCX64)
6
Finally. Now, who's going to stab us in the back in the Senate?
Posted by: Darles Chickens at December 19, 2017 03:55 PM (rkIFo)
7
I am by nature against anything that hurts taxpayers. But if the big blue states feel the pain of not being able to deduct their state taxes - which in effect is on the backs of the other 40-odd states - then good.
Fuck 'em.
Winning.
I am by nature against anything that hurts taxpayers. But if the big blue states feel the pain of not being able to deduct their state taxes - which in effect is on the backs of the other 40-odd states - then good.
Fuck 'em.
Winning.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 03:56 PM (mbhDw)
Posted by: simplemind at December 19, 2017 03:56 PM (ODl9E)
Posted by: Roxanne, Roxanne at December 19, 2017 03:57 PM (w8mVy)
10
Finally. Now, who's going to stab us in the back in the Senate?
Posted by: Darles Chickens
---
I predict a surprise or two.
Portman for example.
Posted by: Darles Chickens
---
I predict a surprise or two.
Portman for example.
Posted by: Tonypete at December 19, 2017 03:57 PM (tr2D7)
11
A Tax Cut...if you can keep it.
Posted by: garrett at December 19, 2017 03:58 PM (ZJ6kG)
12
Too bad McCain won't be there to do the dramatic, last guy to vote thumbs down gesture, eh?
Posted by: Lizzy at December 19, 2017 03:58 PM (W+vEI)
13
Ohh, ace is talking process.
There are some here who hate that kind of factual analysis.
I await the wailing an gnashing.
There are some here who hate that kind of factual analysis.
I await the wailing an gnashing.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 03:58 PM (/tuJf)
14
"There is the outside chance that this big stimulus to the economy (isn't it strange liberals always forget that an economic stimulus can be achieved by tax cuts?!) will goose the GDP growth and increase wages and further lower the unemployment rate -- and substantially increase the GOP's standing with the public before the 2018 and 2020 elections."
It's more than an outside chance. Sarc on?
Lefties scream that tax cuts never increase GDP -- or it's just a sugar high -- except for that one with JFK because Camelot!
It's more than an outside chance. Sarc on?
Lefties scream that tax cuts never increase GDP -- or it's just a sugar high -- except for that one with JFK because Camelot!
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 19, 2017 03:58 PM (cAXIk)
15
Mo Brooks, four days after prostate surgery, flew in to make the vote.
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at December 19, 2017 03:58 PM (398bZ)
16
Republicans who voted against were from NY, NJ, CA, and one from NC.
Posted by: Mrs. JTB at December 19, 2017 03:59 PM (V+03K)
17
Politically, Trump and Republicans ( not to confuse the two) have gained the high ground.. this should be interesting...
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 03:59 PM (pL6Vz)
18
So the GOPe got off their asses in time to make it home for Christmas. I'm pleased with the results but this should have been done by April 15 this year.
Posted by: Embarrassing Stain at December 19, 2017 03:59 PM (dJJXe)
19
America is a very specific set of tax rates, and you killed her!
Posted by: Patton Oswalt, not too bright at December 19, 2017 03:59 PM (+INtM)
Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at December 19, 2017 03:59 PM (UsCnO)
21
Is this end of the world time for Egg and catamites friends?
Posted by: Captain Hate at December 19, 2017 03:59 PM (y7DUB)
22
>>>>>"I think the "vanishing" individual tax cut is just a similar gimmick.
Yes, it's supposed to expire in four years -- for purposes of being
compliant with the Byrd rule on the filibuster-proof reconciliation
process."
.
.
.
.And if the democrats do somehow retake the House next year and want to keep it in 2020 and beyond they will be forced to make the cuts permanent. If not they lose the house after people see how much the Fed is not taking from them.
It's sort of a dead mans switch and it really is a brilliant move on the republicans part even if they were sort of forced to do it that way.
Yes, it's supposed to expire in four years -- for purposes of being
compliant with the Byrd rule on the filibuster-proof reconciliation
process."
.
.
.
.And if the democrats do somehow retake the House next year and want to keep it in 2020 and beyond they will be forced to make the cuts permanent. If not they lose the house after people see how much the Fed is not taking from them.
It's sort of a dead mans switch and it really is a brilliant move on the republicans part even if they were sort of forced to do it that way.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at December 19, 2017 04:00 PM (+Dllb)
23
And, as a BIG DEAL BONUS, this bill (when signed) kills off ObamaCare.
Assuming the repeal of the mandate is still part of the bill which it was last time I saw.
ACA will still be a law but it will be zombie law. And a slow zombie at that.
And, as a BIG DEAL BONUS, this bill (when signed) kills off ObamaCare.
Assuming the repeal of the mandate is still part of the bill which it was last time I saw.
ACA will still be a law but it will be zombie law. And a slow zombie at that.
Posted by: ArthurK at December 19, 2017 04:00 PM (XMCS3)
24
lol. you can't slough your high state taxes on the rest of us any more. eat shit left.
Posted by: x at December 19, 2017 04:00 PM (nFwvY)
25
This shall not stand!
Posted by: the Protoplasm Formerly Known As John McVain at December 19, 2017 04:00 PM (LISuA)
26
And yes, that is exactly why there are sunset provisions in the bill just as there were for the original Bus Tax Cuts.
Guess what happened when they expired? They were made permanent by a bi-partisan vote in Congress because it turns out when people understand they get to keep more of what they make they actually like it.
Guess what happened when they expired? They were made permanent by a bi-partisan vote in Congress because it turns out when people understand they get to keep more of what they make they actually like it.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:00 PM (/tuJf)
27
http://bit.ly/2D77SbO
Very Professional Operation Masked Men Break Into Office of WikiLeaks Lawyer As CIA Threats Heat Up
Very Professional Operation Masked Men Break Into Office of WikiLeaks Lawyer As CIA Threats Heat Up
Posted by: MISH McConnell at December 19, 2017 04:00 PM (y3aQB)
28
My super-conservative friend Jen Rubin and I agree that tax cuts evil and all real conservatives should agree.
Posted by: Egg McMuffin at December 19, 2017 04:00 PM (OD2ni)
29
16
Republicans who voted against were from NY, NJ, CA, and one from NC.
Posted by: Mrs. JTB at December 19, 2017 03:59 PM (V+03K)
Because, after all, why would their constituents ever want lower taxes... oh, Those constituents... never mind..
Republicans who voted against were from NY, NJ, CA, and one from NC.
Posted by: Mrs. JTB at December 19, 2017 03:59 PM (V+03K)
Because, after all, why would their constituents ever want lower taxes... oh, Those constituents... never mind..
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:01 PM (pL6Vz)
30
Bush
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:01 PM (/tuJf)
31
He is so jazzed! You have no idea how aggressive he gets when he is happy. I better get ready.
Posted by: Melania Trump at December 19, 2017 04:02 PM (LISuA)
32
Well, buses were extravagantly overtaxed.
Posted by: garrett at December 19, 2017 04:02 PM (ZJ6kG)
33
30
Bush
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:01 PM (/tuJf)
Her music was... interesting..
Bush
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:01 PM (/tuJf)
Her music was... interesting..
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:02 PM (pL6Vz)
34
>>So the GOPe got off their asses in time to make it home for Christmas. I'm pleased with the results but this should have been done by April 15 this year.
Nope.
Nope.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:02 PM (/tuJf)
35
Es un impuesto!
Posted by: Juan Roberto at December 19, 2017 04:02 PM (YinAC)
36
Hardwood!
Posted by: garrett at December 19, 2017 04:02 PM (ZJ6kG)
37
So in 4 years, we can be expecting to hear things like "letting the Trump tax cuts expire." And I wonder what sellout will show up in order to keep them.
Posted by: buzzion at December 19, 2017 04:02 PM (lKs2v)
Posted by: andycanuck at December 19, 2017 04:02 PM (QCX64)
39
Portman for example.
Posted by: Tonypete at December 19, 2017 03:57 PM (tr2D7)
An example of a RINO I'll never waste a vote on again, started 11/8/2016.
Posted by: Tonypete at December 19, 2017 03:57 PM (tr2D7)
An example of a RINO I'll never waste a vote on again, started 11/8/2016.
Posted by: Captain Hate at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM (y7DUB)
40
You the members of the horde know what the odds are for this to pass the senate. What does it look like?
Posted by: USNtakim prfoundly deplorable! at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM (0OmEj)
41
I'm still peeved that I have to say something not awful about the GOP.
*pouts*
Ohhhh I see what the problem is. I'm off for the regingering in a bit and the bits of, errrm, blonde, yes, let's call it blonde, are attempting to let human like emotions into the soul shaped hole.
getitoff getifoff getifoff
*pouts*
Ohhhh I see what the problem is. I'm off for the regingering in a bit and the bits of, errrm, blonde, yes, let's call it blonde, are attempting to let human like emotions into the soul shaped hole.
getitoff getifoff getifoff
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM (mf5HN)
42
Sapling.
Posted by: andycanuck at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM (QCX64)
43
4 So, who were the 12 so-called "Republicans" who voted against it?
Let me guess - high SALT districts in NY/NJ/VA and CA.
Posted by: DocJ at December 19, 2017 03:55 PM (NYS7S)
Yes, and my guy Tom McClintock, the last of the California Patriots, was one of them.
On balance, I still think the bill is good and will support it. However:
1. Don't we want more governmental programs handled at the state and local level. Frankly, I would be happy to watch all state taxes spike up, if, in return, certain Federal departments were abolished, and their functions returned to the states where they belong. (Education and Public Health as two examples). If we discourage state and local taxation, we discourage (New) Federalism, which is what I thought Republicans were all about.
If government aid programs are to exist, they should be at the state and local levels as much as possible. Federalism matters.
2. Lots of Republicans in "red" states pay higher state, local and property taxes too. A "tax cut" that causes the tax bills of millions of individuals to jump up, people who played by the rules as they best understood them, for decades, is political folly. The people such a gambit hits are those like me who zealously itemize--and we vote Republican.
Well, we vote for Patriots first, Republicans Second, and yes, lots of political bozos have an (R) after their names, but you get the idea.
3. Moreover, isn't this a form of double taxation?
I know this "let's get those "blue state" people" idea seems like political dynamite to some of you, but you really need to think it through, please.
Let me guess - high SALT districts in NY/NJ/VA and CA.
Posted by: DocJ at December 19, 2017 03:55 PM (NYS7S)
Yes, and my guy Tom McClintock, the last of the California Patriots, was one of them.
On balance, I still think the bill is good and will support it. However:
1. Don't we want more governmental programs handled at the state and local level. Frankly, I would be happy to watch all state taxes spike up, if, in return, certain Federal departments were abolished, and their functions returned to the states where they belong. (Education and Public Health as two examples). If we discourage state and local taxation, we discourage (New) Federalism, which is what I thought Republicans were all about.
If government aid programs are to exist, they should be at the state and local levels as much as possible. Federalism matters.
2. Lots of Republicans in "red" states pay higher state, local and property taxes too. A "tax cut" that causes the tax bills of millions of individuals to jump up, people who played by the rules as they best understood them, for decades, is political folly. The people such a gambit hits are those like me who zealously itemize--and we vote Republican.
Well, we vote for Patriots first, Republicans Second, and yes, lots of political bozos have an (R) after their names, but you get the idea.
3. Moreover, isn't this a form of double taxation?
I know this "let's get those "blue state" people" idea seems like political dynamite to some of you, but you really need to think it through, please.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM (ujg0T)
44
Ready to swoop into action!
Posted by: Hawaiian Judge at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM (vg8iE)
45
With the pressure of the Christmas break bearing down on them, they will finally do something, just to get on out of town and back to fundraising. I will be happy if this is passed, and I will LOVE seeing Trump sign it. But let's not give this confederacy of shitheels more credit than they deserve.
Posted by: Peaches at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM (14URa)
46
If the tax cut fuels the economy, dems are in huge trouble come 2018 and 2020. They will be be 24X7X365 attacking it as a sop to the rich, corporations, etc. It would be good to aggressively attack them before they get started by amassing stats on how the economy is helping middle class and the working poor. A strong economy will force companies to complete for workers, which will drive up wages.
Posted by: IanDeal at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM (qcIL3)
47
Dave Brat is in that video, grinning away at the back left.
Posted by: m at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM (sVFZk)
48
It's not what we all wanted but it is better than what we had.
IIRC, Reagan did a two step in tax cutting and then reform. Remember that we have to get real conserva...AMERICANS into the senate and the donks have 23 jackasses up for reelection 8 or more that can be easily taken out.
IIRC, Reagan did a two step in tax cutting and then reform. Remember that we have to get real conserva...AMERICANS into the senate and the donks have 23 jackasses up for reelection 8 or more that can be easily taken out.
Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM (3BFzK)
Posted by: Les Kinetic at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM (oKaQ3)
50
38
Tree.
[This is an odd game, Jack.]
Posted by: andycanuck at December 19, 2017 04:02 PM (QCX64)
Okay... shrub... yeah, where are we going with this?
Tree.
[This is an odd game, Jack.]
Posted by: andycanuck at December 19, 2017 04:02 PM (QCX64)
Okay... shrub... yeah, where are we going with this?
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM (pL6Vz)
51
GOP finally put out a calculator that lets people estimate the effects of the tax bill on themselves.
Day late and a dollar short, as always.
They need to spend a bunch on PR on how this bill helped people this coming spring, remind people who did it and how.
And that the Democrats universally opposed it and called it doom that would kill people.
But that would cut into their hookers and blow fund, so... not gonna happen.
Day late and a dollar short, as always.
They need to spend a bunch on PR on how this bill helped people this coming spring, remind people who did it and how.
And that the Democrats universally opposed it and called it doom that would kill people.
But that would cut into their hookers and blow fund, so... not gonna happen.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 19, 2017 04:04 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: Sally Kohn at December 19, 2017 04:04 PM (vg8iE)
53
Senate Expected to Vote on Final Passage Tonight
Until the final vote is passed I wouldn't count it or Senate Republicans to come through on anything.
Until the final vote is passed I wouldn't count it or Senate Republicans to come through on anything.
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 19, 2017 04:04 PM (493sH)
54
The Dems have 48 votes; and 51 non-Dems in today.
Posted by: andycanuck at December 19, 2017 04:04 PM (QCX64)
55
12 cucks voted against it.
12 cucks voted against it.
Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at December 19, 2017 04:04 PM (G8LR7)
56
49 MAGA 2020. Is that plate taken in FL?
Gotta find out.
I know it's taken in NY. I saw one reading exactly that at the barber's on Saturday.
Gotta find out.
I know it's taken in NY. I saw one reading exactly that at the barber's on Saturday.
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 19, 2017 04:04 PM (ul9CR)
57
Note that the reduction in the top rate undoes the increase that got put in by Obamacare (an increase that had nothing directly to do with healthcare or its financing) An increase that was necessary to get OCare to meet the CBO revenue neutral test to allow for 51 vote reconciliation.
Trump is well on his way to undoing everything that Obama did. All that will be left is a library on Chicago's South Side and $10 trillion in debt.
Trump is well on his way to undoing everything that Obama did. All that will be left is a library on Chicago's South Side and $10 trillion in debt.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 19, 2017 04:05 PM (cAXIk)
58
12 Republican cucks couldn't help being cucks.
12 Republican cucks couldn't help being cucks.
Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at December 19, 2017 04:05 PM (G8LR7)
59
This requires the Senate to surprise me, never a good bet.
We shall very shortly see how much the GOP really wants to retain power.
We shall very shortly see how much the GOP really wants to retain power.
Posted by: Leonard Pinth-Garnell at December 19, 2017 04:05 PM (7A6l6)
60
Until the final vote is passed I wouldn't count it or Senate Republicans to come through on anything.
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 19, 2017 04:04 PM (493sH)
Don't you know it baby.
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 19, 2017 04:04 PM (493sH)
Don't you know it baby.
Posted by: Not yet zombie McCain at December 19, 2017 04:05 PM (72PAC)
61
This tax bill is a coupable offense.
Posted by: Brian Stelter at December 19, 2017 04:05 PM (vPD1C)
62
>>>>>I know this "let's get those "blue state" people"
idea seems like political dynamite to some of you, but you really need
to think it through, please.
.Posted by: Curmudgeon at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM (ujg0T)
...Serious question....think what through? High tax State residents should not be getting a Federal Tax break to subsidize those taxes through a tax exemption no matter what State they live in.
idea seems like political dynamite to some of you, but you really need
to think it through, please.
.Posted by: Curmudgeon at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM (ujg0T)
...Serious question....think what through? High tax State residents should not be getting a Federal Tax break to subsidize those taxes through a tax exemption no matter what State they live in.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at December 19, 2017 04:05 PM (+Dllb)
63
Is this the whore-to-culture thread?
Posted by: Joe Biden at December 19, 2017 04:06 PM (398bZ)
64
Did I get to keep my Earned Income Tax Credits on income I didn't earn or pay taxes on?
Posted by: Moron Robbie - High Speed Rail Denier at December 19, 2017 04:06 PM (T4n7S)
65
They need to spend a bunch on PR on how this bill helped people this coming spring, remind people who did it and how.
But then they can't spend money getting swamp creatures and democrats elected to Senate seats in Deep Red states. Because, priorities.
But then they can't spend money getting swamp creatures and democrats elected to Senate seats in Deep Red states. Because, priorities.
Posted by: DocJ at December 19, 2017 04:06 PM (NYS7S)
66
Hmm,only 4:8% will see an increase from this bill.That doesn't seem like it soaks the blue states so hard...
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/283786/
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/283786/
Posted by: steevy at December 19, 2017 04:06 PM (LiyEm)
Posted by: Chris M at December 19, 2017 04:07 PM (eAZVt)
68
curmudgeon, californians now have a bigger incentive to vote for lower taxes.
Posted by: x at December 19, 2017 04:07 PM (nFwvY)
69
I love how the Democrats are all "the tax cuts will increase the deficit" when A) that's not even usually true and 2) they never care about the deficit when they get to spend.
Posted by: Lance McCormick at December 19, 2017 04:07 PM (hXeKX)
70
Has Chuck Schemer done his whine-fest yet as the Senatorial equivalent to Nancy Pelosi?-"The children will DIE. Old folks with DIE. The poor will DIE and the richest 1% will come out as bandits and not die (or words close th that)
I roll my eyes up when the very, very rich Democrats lambast the evil rich.
I roll my eyes up when the very, very rich Democrats lambast the evil rich.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 19, 2017 04:07 PM (8+Ozj)
71
Not a perfect bill but I'll take what I can get.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 19, 2017 04:07 PM (xJa6I)
72
The 12 Cucks, named and shamed:
Rep. Dan Donovan, New York
Rep. John Faso, New York
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, New Jersey
Rep. Darrell Issa, California
Rep. Walter Jones, North Carolina
Rep. Peter King, New York
Rep. Leonard Lance, New Jersey
Rep. Frank LoBiondo, New Jersey
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, California
Rep. Christopher Smith, New Jersey
Rep. Elise Stefanik, New York
Rep. Lee Zeldin, New York
Rep. Dan Donovan, New York
Rep. John Faso, New York
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, New Jersey
Rep. Darrell Issa, California
Rep. Walter Jones, North Carolina
Rep. Peter King, New York
Rep. Leonard Lance, New Jersey
Rep. Frank LoBiondo, New Jersey
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, California
Rep. Christopher Smith, New Jersey
Rep. Elise Stefanik, New York
Rep. Lee Zeldin, New York
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 19, 2017 04:07 PM (ul9CR)
73
Kalifornia spends $23+ billion on illegal aliens. Think the rich guys might begin to rethink that? I know the middle class will.
Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at December 19, 2017 04:07 PM (3BFzK)
74
Also Diane Feinstein's own goal of how much this will hurt big home-owning Californians.
Posted by: Lance McCormick at December 19, 2017 04:07 PM (hXeKX)
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 19, 2017 04:08 PM (r+sAi)
76
In addition, there is the outside chance that this big stimulus to the economy
---
Speaking of, are we going to get a budget that finally cuts Obama's perpetual trillion dollar "stimulus" each year (you didn't think those Continuing Resolutions were just for fun, did you?), or is it too baked into the cake by now to safely remove?
---
Speaking of, are we going to get a budget that finally cuts Obama's perpetual trillion dollar "stimulus" each year (you didn't think those Continuing Resolutions were just for fun, did you?), or is it too baked into the cake by now to safely remove?
Posted by: Moron Robbie - High Speed Rail Denier at December 19, 2017 04:08 PM (T4n7S)
77
Well with the putz NJ just elected we are going to be getting dick slapped hard.....
Posted by: steevy at December 19, 2017 04:08 PM (LiyEm)
Posted by: Hawaiian Judge at December 19, 2017 04:08 PM (ul9CR)
79
72
The 12 Cucks, named and shamed:
Rep. Dan Donovan, New York
Rep. John Faso, New York
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, New Jersey
Rep. Darrell Issa, California
Rep. Walter Jones, North Carolina
Rep. Peter King, New York
Rep. Leonard Lance, New Jersey
Rep. Frank LoBiondo, New Jersey
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, California
Rep. Christopher Smith, New Jersey
Rep. Elise Stefanik, New York
Rep. Lee Zeldin, New York
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 19, 201772
The 12 Cucks, named and shamed:
Rep. Dan Donovan, New York
Rep. John Faso, New York
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, New Jersey
Rep. Darrell Issa, California
Rep. Walter Jones, North Carolina
Rep. Peter King, New York
Rep. Leonard Lance, New Jersey
Rep. Frank LoBiondo, New Jersey
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, California
Rep. Christopher Smith, New Jersey
Rep. Elise Stefanik, New York
Rep. Lee Zeldin, New York
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 19, 2017
Blue State Bozos, all.
The 12 Cucks, named and shamed:
Rep. Dan Donovan, New York
Rep. John Faso, New York
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, New Jersey
Rep. Darrell Issa, California
Rep. Walter Jones, North Carolina
Rep. Peter King, New York
Rep. Leonard Lance, New Jersey
Rep. Frank LoBiondo, New Jersey
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, California
Rep. Christopher Smith, New Jersey
Rep. Elise Stefanik, New York
Rep. Lee Zeldin, New York
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 19, 201772
The 12 Cucks, named and shamed:
Rep. Dan Donovan, New York
Rep. John Faso, New York
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, New Jersey
Rep. Darrell Issa, California
Rep. Walter Jones, North Carolina
Rep. Peter King, New York
Rep. Leonard Lance, New Jersey
Rep. Frank LoBiondo, New Jersey
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, California
Rep. Christopher Smith, New Jersey
Rep. Elise Stefanik, New York
Rep. Lee Zeldin, New York
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 19, 2017
Blue State Bozos, all.
Posted by: Joe Mama at December 19, 2017 04:09 PM (YinAC)
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 19, 2017 04:09 PM (ul9CR)
81
72 The 12 Cucks, named and shamed: ...
No surprises - unless you consider Babs Comstock (RiNO-VA) as a YES vote a surprise, which I sure do.
No surprises - unless you consider Babs Comstock (RiNO-VA) as a YES vote a surprise, which I sure do.
Posted by: DocJ at December 19, 2017 04:09 PM (NYS7S)
82
Speaking of, are we going to get a budget that finally cuts Obama's perpetual trillion dollar "stimulus" each year (you didn't think those Continuing Resolutions were just for fun, did you?), or is it too baked into the cake by now to safely remove?
When was the last actual f'ing budget, as opposed to continuing resolutions or whatever?
You know, one of the very few actual jobs of Congresspeople?
When was the last actual f'ing budget, as opposed to continuing resolutions or whatever?
You know, one of the very few actual jobs of Congresspeople?
Posted by: Lance McCormick at December 19, 2017 04:09 PM (hXeKX)
83
Not worrying about something I have no control over. I will cross the bridge when I get to it if it has not collapsed.
Posted by: Roc Ingersol at December 19, 2017 04:09 PM (qcrxS)
84
I live in Deep Blue NY, near NYC.
I support the caps on SALT. It's like calling in an artillery bombardment on my own position.
I support the caps on SALT. It's like calling in an artillery bombardment on my own position.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 19, 2017 04:09 PM (cAXIk)
85
So tomorrow AM there will be much crying, many pissed panties and wailing. Make first day of Kindergarten look like a fukn picnic.
Posted by: rhennigantx at December 19, 2017 04:09 PM (BtQd4)
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 19, 2017 04:09 PM (r+sAi)
87
"The 12 Cucks, named and shamed:"
Are they supposed to be in favor of their constituents' taxes going up?
Are they supposed to be in favor of their constituents' taxes going up?
Posted by: Chris M at December 19, 2017 04:10 PM (eAZVt)
88
I believe the mortgage interest deduction is capped at $750K. No middle class lives in a $750K house, not even here is SoCal. They may think they are middle class, the may call themselves middle class. But middle class they aren't.
The limit of $10K in SALT will cover the bulk of people.
The corp rate goes into effect next year. This will help eliminate corporations tinkering with 2018/2019 income, which is good.
On a downside - and I'm sure there are a few - if you can't deduct mortgage interest on a second home, you will see a bunch of motorhomes for sale.
The limit of $10K in SALT will cover the bulk of people.
The corp rate goes into effect next year. This will help eliminate corporations tinkering with 2018/2019 income, which is good.
On a downside - and I'm sure there are a few - if you can't deduct mortgage interest on a second home, you will see a bunch of motorhomes for sale.
Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal at December 19, 2017 04:10 PM (bB4HN)
89
86
When we deficit finance, why even have federal taxes?
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 19, 2017 04:09 PM (r+sAi)
To show the proles who's boss and crowd out as much private economic activity as they can get away with.
When we deficit finance, why even have federal taxes?
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 19, 2017 04:09 PM (r+sAi)
To show the proles who's boss and crowd out as much private economic activity as they can get away with.
Posted by: Insomniac - Nobody in Particular at December 19, 2017 04:11 PM (NWiLs)
90
>>I support the caps on SALT. It's like calling in an artillery bombardment on my own position.
Same situation. It was still the right thing to do.
And I'm not a bit surprised that Reps from blue states voted against it either because there are few who will agree with us.
Same situation. It was still the right thing to do.
And I'm not a bit surprised that Reps from blue states voted against it either because there are few who will agree with us.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:11 PM (/tuJf)
91
72 The one putz from NC sticks out like an inflamed hemmoroid...
Posted by: steevy at December 19, 2017 04:11 PM (LiyEm)
92
51 GOP finally put out a calculator that lets people estimate the effects of the tax bill on themselves.
Day late and a dollar short, as always.
They need to spend a bunch on PR on how this bill helped people this coming spring, remind people who did it and how.
And that the Democrats universally opposed it and called it doom that would kill people.
But that would cut into their hookers and blow fund, so... not gonna happen.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 19, 2017 04:04 PM (39g3+)/i]
Well they probably didn't know until now because they didn't know what stupid fucking wealth redistribution demands and payouts "principled" conservatives like Little Marco and "Isn't Iran awesome" Corker would demand be shoved into the bill in order to get them to vote yes on ideas they claim to be in favor of.
Day late and a dollar short, as always.
They need to spend a bunch on PR on how this bill helped people this coming spring, remind people who did it and how.
And that the Democrats universally opposed it and called it doom that would kill people.
But that would cut into their hookers and blow fund, so... not gonna happen.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 19, 2017 04:04 PM (39g3+)/i]
Well they probably didn't know until now because they didn't know what stupid fucking wealth redistribution demands and payouts "principled" conservatives like Little Marco and "Isn't Iran awesome" Corker would demand be shoved into the bill in order to get them to vote yes on ideas they claim to be in favor of.
Posted by: buzzion at December 19, 2017 04:11 PM (lKs2v)
93
...Serious question....think what through? High tax State residents should not be getting a Federal Tax break to subsidize those taxes through a tax exemption no matter what State they live in.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at December 19, 2017 04:05 PM (+Dllb)
Like I said before, Federalism Matters. Think THAT through.
Frankly, I am all for encouraging State and Local governments, by chopping away at Federal Departments.
NOTE: I stand corrected. Tom McClintock voted YES on the modified version, that still allowed SALT, just with a cap. But his arguments for NO on the original House version were compelling:
https://mcclintock.house.gov/newsroom/vote-notes/hr-1-house-tax-reform-bill-no
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at December 19, 2017 04:05 PM (+Dllb)
Like I said before, Federalism Matters. Think THAT through.
Frankly, I am all for encouraging State and Local governments, by chopping away at Federal Departments.
NOTE: I stand corrected. Tom McClintock voted YES on the modified version, that still allowed SALT, just with a cap. But his arguments for NO on the original House version were compelling:
https://mcclintock.house.gov/newsroom/vote-notes/hr-1-house-tax-reform-bill-no
Posted by: Curmudgeon at December 19, 2017 04:11 PM (ujg0T)
94
What the hell happened to Rohrabacher? He didn't used to suck so bad a long time ago.
...and somehow the Hawaiian judge gag never gets old.
...and somehow the Hawaiian judge gag never gets old.
Posted by: Leonard Pinth-Garnell at December 19, 2017 04:11 PM (7A6l6)
95
If you don't have caps on salt it spills all over the place.
Posted by: Insomniac - Nobody in Particular at December 19, 2017 04:11 PM (NWiLs)
96
I'm just wondering which RINO the Dems have something on and will be trotting out to make a principled NO vote at the last minute. Or do they need 2 of them? I can't believe this will be allowed to pass.
Posted by: Ripley at December 19, 2017 04:11 PM (MxEKc)
97
87. Is their home states' willingness to shift the burdens of their onerous taxation upon the nation at large anything other than theft?
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Booking Agent, Aero Pinochet at December 19, 2017 04:12 PM (gQWww)
Posted by: Lizzy at December 19, 2017 04:12 PM (W+vEI)
99
you will see a bunch of motorhomes for sale.
Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal at December 19, 2017
And boats
Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal at December 19, 2017
And boats
Posted by: Joe Mama at December 19, 2017 04:12 PM (YinAC)
100
All they had to do was pass a repeal and replace and the R's would have swept the 2018 elections. What a bunch of fuck sticks.
Posted by: Monk at December 19, 2017 04:12 PM (g4lFK)
101
90 >>I support the caps on SALT. It's like calling in an artillery bombardment on my own position.
>>>Same situation. It was still the right thing to do.
Thirded.
>>>Same situation. It was still the right thing to do.
Thirded.
Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at December 19, 2017 04:12 PM (72PAC)
102
Caps on SALT etc. may topple Blue States on edge. IL is obvious, but CT can't afford to have more hedge fund operators move out of Greenwich.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 19, 2017 04:12 PM (cAXIk)
103
Are they supposed to be in favor of their constituents' taxes going up?
Posted by: Chris M at December 19, 2017 04:10 PM (eAZVt)
You're right." All politics is local", a they used to say.
It would be political suicide for them to vote for it--and they don't really hurt Trump because, well, NY, NJ & CA are blue....
Posted by: Chris M at December 19, 2017 04:10 PM (eAZVt)
You're right." All politics is local", a they used to say.
It would be political suicide for them to vote for it--and they don't really hurt Trump because, well, NY, NJ & CA are blue....
Posted by: JoeF. at December 19, 2017 04:12 PM (7uYFy)
104
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 19, 2017 04:07 PM (ul9CR)
Wow. Thank you! I heard on the radio earlier that the CA Dems are gunning for Issa. Fine with me, he's been a major disappointment lately. These CA 'tards keep voting for any and every state and local tax. Maybe this will "wake" them.
Wow. Thank you! I heard on the radio earlier that the CA Dems are gunning for Issa. Fine with me, he's been a major disappointment lately. These CA 'tards keep voting for any and every state and local tax. Maybe this will "wake" them.
Posted by: Peaches at December 19, 2017 04:13 PM (14URa)
105
Congratulations to Speaker Paul Ryan and the Republican caucus for pushing the tax reform bill to final passage!
Posted by: mrp at December 19, 2017 04:13 PM (Pqytn)
106
>>I support the caps on SALT. It's like calling in an artillery bombardment on my own position.
Same. It's the right thing to do. No reason people in the rest of the country should subsidize the spending of the General Court of the Commonwealth (MA) and RiNO crapweasel Gov. Chaaahlie Baaakahh
>>I support the caps on SALT. It's like calling in an artillery bombardment on my own position.
Same. It's the right thing to do. No reason people in the rest of the country should subsidize the spending of the General Court of the Commonwealth (MA) and RiNO crapweasel Gov. Chaaahlie Baaakahh
Posted by: DocJ at December 19, 2017 04:13 PM (NYS7S)
107
Winning - it never gets old. And to watch the lefties goes all 'splodey makes it oh so much better to watch.
BTW, Just purchased three deplorable gourmet cookbooks and can't wait to get my grubby little paws on them. Thanks all who took the time to organize and put it together.
BTW, Just purchased three deplorable gourmet cookbooks and can't wait to get my grubby little paws on them. Thanks all who took the time to organize and put it together.
Posted by: NALNAMSAM - not as lean, not as mean, still a Marine at December 19, 2017 04:13 PM (beozG)
108
It was much easier to give a big tax cut to businesses under reconciliation.
Tax revenues from businesses only accounts for about 14% of all federal revenues. Individual income taxes are a much much bigger share of revenues.. so they could only diddle with those around the edges under reconciliation.
Tax revenues from businesses only accounts for about 14% of all federal revenues. Individual income taxes are a much much bigger share of revenues.. so they could only diddle with those around the edges under reconciliation.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (so+oy)
109
I support the caps on SALT. It's like calling in an artillery bombardment on my own position.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 19, 2017 04:09 PM (cAXIk)
Only if you and your men are well dug in your foxholes, and the NVA or VC are overrunning your position, does that make any sense.
Otherwise, it is just a lot of collateral damage.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 19, 2017 04:09 PM (cAXIk)
Only if you and your men are well dug in your foxholes, and the NVA or VC are overrunning your position, does that make any sense.
Otherwise, it is just a lot of collateral damage.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (ujg0T)
110
So SALT was added back? Unsurprisingly, this was not mentioned by the MSM.
And my congresscritter is Dan Donovan. Woo Hoo.
And my congresscritter is Dan Donovan. Woo Hoo.
Posted by: Penfold at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (Fbt5B)
111
>>>>Kalifornia spends $23+ billion on illegal aliens. Think the rich guys might begin to rethink that? I know the middle class will.
.
.
.
.CA, IL, NJ and most of the New England States will be hit hardest and yes the middle class there will pay a price. But as I said above, no one should be getting a semi-free ride on State and local taxes when the rest of the Country is having to subsidize them.
I know some people in CT where we lived 5 years ago that are going to take a serious hit on deductions for their Federal taxes when this hits next year and they don't deserve it but the madness has to end someplace.
Heck the wife and I would have taken a big hit if we still lived there and that is reason #1 that we moved away. The increased standard deduction should help some people though.
.
.
.
.CA, IL, NJ and most of the New England States will be hit hardest and yes the middle class there will pay a price. But as I said above, no one should be getting a semi-free ride on State and local taxes when the rest of the Country is having to subsidize them.
I know some people in CT where we lived 5 years ago that are going to take a serious hit on deductions for their Federal taxes when this hits next year and they don't deserve it but the madness has to end someplace.
Heck the wife and I would have taken a big hit if we still lived there and that is reason #1 that we moved away. The increased standard deduction should help some people though.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (+Dllb)
112
"I support the caps on SALT. It's like calling in an artillery bombardment on my own position."
I kind of almost agree here. But $3,500 year is a whopping tax increase for me.
I kind of almost agree here. But $3,500 year is a whopping tax increase for me.
Posted by: Chris M at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (eAZVt)
113
If people think the Democrats wouldn't vote to shitcan the middle class tax tax cuts hasn't been paying attention.
They basically executed a kamikazi mission to pass Obamacare.
All they care about is advancing their agenda, they will do what is necessary, take the hits and plot and scheme to advance it some more.
They are a legitimate political party as properly understood.
The GOP could learn a lesson or two.
They basically executed a kamikazi mission to pass Obamacare.
All they care about is advancing their agenda, they will do what is necessary, take the hits and plot and scheme to advance it some more.
They are a legitimate political party as properly understood.
The GOP could learn a lesson or two.
Posted by: Kreplach at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (HfIP0)
114
Caps on SALT etc. may topple Blue States on edge. IL is obvious, but CT can't afford to have more hedge fund operators move out of Greenwich.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 19, 2017 04:12 PM (cAXIk)
Same with New Jersey. This bill should lead to people in blue states to resist tax hikes in their own states.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 19, 2017 04:12 PM (cAXIk)
Same with New Jersey. This bill should lead to people in blue states to resist tax hikes in their own states.
Posted by: JoeF. at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (7uYFy)
115
I thought that the state and local tax deduction was kept but only up to $10,000?
Here is where I reveal that I am a naive child. Unless it got changed in the final bill, I lost the only deduction I take, namely, the student loan interest deduction. Okay. Fine. You see, I understand that to get what I want, namely, lower rates, I have to give up one of my goodies. I assumed, because I'm an idiot, that everyone else knew how the game was played as well. Give some to get some. You know, as has been for all of human history.
I do not comprehend all the caterwauling by, to pull a name out of a hat, Patterico about how if his state and local tax deduction was cut he was never ever ever voting GOP ever again because that would hurt him badly economically.
Gee. It's a mystery why it is that the ratchet only goes to the left when super duper ultra conservatives rawwwrrr lose their minds when something that benefits them is threatened. It's a mystery, really.
Oh link to Patterico to prove I'm only exaggerating a tiny bit in describing his position:
http://bit.ly/2Bgc5wy
Here is where I reveal that I am a naive child. Unless it got changed in the final bill, I lost the only deduction I take, namely, the student loan interest deduction. Okay. Fine. You see, I understand that to get what I want, namely, lower rates, I have to give up one of my goodies. I assumed, because I'm an idiot, that everyone else knew how the game was played as well. Give some to get some. You know, as has been for all of human history.
I do not comprehend all the caterwauling by, to pull a name out of a hat, Patterico about how if his state and local tax deduction was cut he was never ever ever voting GOP ever again because that would hurt him badly economically.
Gee. It's a mystery why it is that the ratchet only goes to the left when super duper ultra conservatives rawwwrrr lose their minds when something that benefits them is threatened. It's a mystery, really.
Oh link to Patterico to prove I'm only exaggerating a tiny bit in describing his position:
http://bit.ly/2Bgc5wy
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (mf5HN)
Posted by: Skip at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (aC6Sd)
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 19, 2017 04:15 PM (ul9CR)
118
97 87. Is their home states' willingness to shift the burdens of their onerous taxation upon the nation at large anything other than theft?
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Booking Agent, Aero Pinochet
redistributing their state tax bills to the rest of us
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Booking Agent, Aero Pinochet
redistributing their state tax bills to the rest of us
Posted by: x at December 19, 2017 04:15 PM (nFwvY)
119
"80 11 of the 12 cucks are from NY, NJ or CA.
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat?"
What's the deal with the guy from NC? Is there something weird in NC's tax code or is he just a RINO?
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat?"
What's the deal with the guy from NC? Is there something weird in NC's tax code or is he just a RINO?
Posted by: Egg McMuffin at December 19, 2017 04:15 PM (OD2ni)
120
72
The 12 Cucks, named and shamed:
Rep. Dan Donovan, New York
Rep. John Faso, New York
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, New Jersey
Rep. Darrell Issa, California
Rep. Walter Jones, North Carolina
Rep. Peter King, New York
Rep. Leonard Lance, New Jersey
Rep. Frank LoBiondo, New Jersey
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, California
Rep. Christopher Smith, New Jersey
Rep. Elise Stefanik, New York
Rep. Lee Zeldin, New York
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 19, 2017 04:07 PM (ul9CR)
RINOs and DIABLOs all, even the one from NC.
The 12 Cucks, named and shamed:
Rep. Dan Donovan, New York
Rep. John Faso, New York
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, New Jersey
Rep. Darrell Issa, California
Rep. Walter Jones, North Carolina
Rep. Peter King, New York
Rep. Leonard Lance, New Jersey
Rep. Frank LoBiondo, New Jersey
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, California
Rep. Christopher Smith, New Jersey
Rep. Elise Stefanik, New York
Rep. Lee Zeldin, New York
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 19, 2017 04:07 PM (ul9CR)
RINOs and DIABLOs all, even the one from NC.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at December 19, 2017 04:15 PM (mpXpK)
121
These silly people think I should have good feelzzz because they're stealing less.
Hey, now let's cut more of the government bureaucracy and, oh, by the way, throw in another tax cut. Baby steps.
Hey, now let's cut more of the government bureaucracy and, oh, by the way, throw in another tax cut. Baby steps.
Posted by: Fritz at December 19, 2017 04:15 PM (A1FgP)
122
This is kinda OT but instead of popcorn Snyders Pretzel Pieces are damn good
Posted by: Skip at December 19, 2017 04:15 PM (aC6Sd)
123
I look forward to a 9th Circuit judge ordering Congress to keep the mandate.
That'll be amusing to watch. I can imagine SCOTUS' reaction, and aside from Sotomayor and RBG, I think it'll be glorious.
That'll be amusing to watch. I can imagine SCOTUS' reaction, and aside from Sotomayor and RBG, I think it'll be glorious.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at December 19, 2017 04:15 PM (ELUpj)
124
Like I said before, Federalism Matters. Think THAT through.
I have. If your state wants to operate as a miniature Eurosocialist state, the citizens if your state can pay for it.
"Muh FEDERALISM" isn't a reason to reduce your federal taxes because you've chosen to pay for government corruption.
I have. If your state wants to operate as a miniature Eurosocialist state, the citizens if your state can pay for it.
"Muh FEDERALISM" isn't a reason to reduce your federal taxes because you've chosen to pay for government corruption.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 19, 2017 04:16 PM (fXIMQ)
125
But people are going to die if this bill is passed
Nancy Pelosi
Evergreen:
https://youtu.be/eXWhbUUE4ko
Nancy Pelosi
Evergreen:
https://youtu.be/eXWhbUUE4ko
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 19, 2017 04:16 PM (39g3+)
126
I've heard a lot of locusts are moving into NC and it is a changin'....
Posted by: steevy at December 19, 2017 04:16 PM (LiyEm)
127
118 97 87. Is their home states' willingness to shift the burdens of their onerous taxation upon the nation at large anything other than theft?
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Booking Agent, Aero Pinochet
redistributing their state tax bills to the rest of us
Posted by: x at December 19, 2017 04:15 PM (nFwvY)
==============
Patterico says he'll never vote Republican again because this bill increases his tax burden because of the SALT reduction.
I think he's funny.
Wait...he's serious? Why does that make it funnier?
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Booking Agent, Aero Pinochet
redistributing their state tax bills to the rest of us
Posted by: x at December 19, 2017 04:15 PM (nFwvY)
==============
Patterico says he'll never vote Republican again because this bill increases his tax burden because of the SALT reduction.
I think he's funny.
Wait...he's serious? Why does that make it funnier?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at December 19, 2017 04:17 PM (ELUpj)
128
94 What the hell happened to Rohrabacher? He didn't used to suck so bad a long time ago.
Posted by: Leonard Pinth-Garnell at December 19, 2017 04:11 PM (7A6l6)
He is still awesome. But you can't expect him to cut his own throat in expensive real estate Orange County.
Allowing SALT with caps does not hurt McClintock so much, because Placer County is not so expensive, and I bet that is why he changed his vote.
Posted by: Leonard Pinth-Garnell at December 19, 2017 04:11 PM (7A6l6)
He is still awesome. But you can't expect him to cut his own throat in expensive real estate Orange County.
Allowing SALT with caps does not hurt McClintock so much, because Placer County is not so expensive, and I bet that is why he changed his vote.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at December 19, 2017 04:17 PM (ujg0T)
129
On this day in an Alternate Universe:
Today the House passed the Hillary! Administration's "Punish the One Percent and all Cis-Gendered White Males in the Top 25 Percent Tax Reform Bill" that will increase tax rates on those groups to 95 percent.
Even bigger news: A last-minute amendment to the bill gives amnesty and immediate citizenship to all undocumented residents in the USA as of now, and pro-actively to all who arrive by any means, legal or otherwise, before January 20, 2025.
The vote was 435-0. House Republicans have been totally cowed by President Clinton since April, when it is alleged the President showed thousands of supposedly-secret NSA intercept records on all House Republicans to Speaker Paul Ryan.
Senate passage of the bill is expected tomorrow.
Today the House passed the Hillary! Administration's "Punish the One Percent and all Cis-Gendered White Males in the Top 25 Percent Tax Reform Bill" that will increase tax rates on those groups to 95 percent.
Even bigger news: A last-minute amendment to the bill gives amnesty and immediate citizenship to all undocumented residents in the USA as of now, and pro-actively to all who arrive by any means, legal or otherwise, before January 20, 2025.
The vote was 435-0. House Republicans have been totally cowed by President Clinton since April, when it is alleged the President showed thousands of supposedly-secret NSA intercept records on all House Republicans to Speaker Paul Ryan.
Senate passage of the bill is expected tomorrow.
Posted by: Gref at December 19, 2017 04:17 PM (AMIL/)
130
Are they supposed to be in favor of their constituents' taxes going up?
Posted by: Chris M at December 19, 2017 04:10 PM (eAZVt)
Wouldn't expect then to be, and Chris Smith, at least is not really what I would describe as a "cuck"> I don't use that word anyway, It's meaningless and sophomoric.
Posted by: Chris M at December 19, 2017 04:10 PM (eAZVt)
Wouldn't expect then to be, and Chris Smith, at least is not really what I would describe as a "cuck"> I don't use that word anyway, It's meaningless and sophomoric.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 19, 2017 04:17 PM (8+Ozj)
131
And, as a BIG DEAL BONUS, this bill (when signed) kills off ObamaCare.
Assuming the repeal of the mandate is still part of the bill which it was last time I saw.
ACA will still be a law but it will be zombie law. And a slow zombie at that.
Posted by: ArthurK at December 19, 2017 04:00 PM (XMCS3)
---
I agree that it will keep consumers from being forced to purchase the product, but does it change any requirements of Obamacare re: hysterectomy coverage for men, equal premiums for the near-death pork rinders and disease-free health nuts, etc?
Assuming the repeal of the mandate is still part of the bill which it was last time I saw.
ACA will still be a law but it will be zombie law. And a slow zombie at that.
Posted by: ArthurK at December 19, 2017 04:00 PM (XMCS3)
---
I agree that it will keep consumers from being forced to purchase the product, but does it change any requirements of Obamacare re: hysterectomy coverage for men, equal premiums for the near-death pork rinders and disease-free health nuts, etc?
Posted by: Moron Robbie - High Speed Rail Denier at December 19, 2017 04:17 PM (T4n7S)
132
But people are going to die if this bill is passed
Nancy Pelosi
----
People are going to die either way.
Nancy Pelosi
----
People are going to die either way.
Posted by: B. D Jones at December 19, 2017 04:17 PM (KdDCu)
133
Same with New Jersey. This bill should lead to people in blue states to resist tax hikes in their own states.
Posted by: JoeF. at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (7uYFy)
Like the politicians in those states give a shit. I'm looking at you Illinois. They'll raise taxes all day long and will still get voted back into office. And Illinois is loaded with Vichy Republicans so there is zero opposition to any tax increases
Posted by: JoeF. at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (7uYFy)
Like the politicians in those states give a shit. I'm looking at you Illinois. They'll raise taxes all day long and will still get voted back into office. And Illinois is loaded with Vichy Republicans so there is zero opposition to any tax increases
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 19, 2017 04:17 PM (493sH)
134
People are going to die if this bill is passed,or if it isn't passed,or if no bills are passed ever.....
Posted by: steevy at December 19, 2017 04:18 PM (LiyEm)
135
115 I thought that the state and local tax deduction was kept but only up to $10,000?
Here is where I reveal that I am a naive child. Unless it got changed in the final bill, I lost the only deduction I take, namely, the student loan interest deduction. Okay. Fine. You see, I understand that to get what I want, namely, lower rates, I have to give up one of my goodies. I assumed, because I'm an idiot, that everyone else knew how the game was played as well. Give some to get some. You know, as has been for all of human history.
I do not comprehend all the caterwauling by, to pull a name out of a hat, Patterico about how if his state and local tax deduction was cut he was never ever ever voting GOP ever again because that would hurt him badly economically.
Gee. It's a mystery why it is that the ratchet only goes to the left when super duper ultra conservatives rawwwrrr lose their minds when something that benefits them is threatened. It's a mystery, really.
Oh link to Patterico to prove I'm only exaggerating a tiny bit in describing his position:
http://bit.ly/2Bgc5wy
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (mf5HN)
===============
I'm sure he's written before about how we need to eliminate deductions as well in order to make the tax code cleaner.
Here is where I reveal that I am a naive child. Unless it got changed in the final bill, I lost the only deduction I take, namely, the student loan interest deduction. Okay. Fine. You see, I understand that to get what I want, namely, lower rates, I have to give up one of my goodies. I assumed, because I'm an idiot, that everyone else knew how the game was played as well. Give some to get some. You know, as has been for all of human history.
I do not comprehend all the caterwauling by, to pull a name out of a hat, Patterico about how if his state and local tax deduction was cut he was never ever ever voting GOP ever again because that would hurt him badly economically.
Gee. It's a mystery why it is that the ratchet only goes to the left when super duper ultra conservatives rawwwrrr lose their minds when something that benefits them is threatened. It's a mystery, really.
Oh link to Patterico to prove I'm only exaggerating a tiny bit in describing his position:
http://bit.ly/2Bgc5wy
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (mf5HN)
===============
I'm sure he's written before about how we need to eliminate deductions as well in order to make the tax code cleaner.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at December 19, 2017 04:18 PM (ELUpj)
136
All I keep thinking when these Leftists scream class warfare is its only a very small step from that to the gulags opening
Posted by: Skip at December 19, 2017 04:18 PM (aC6Sd)
137
I'm in a state with a low flat tax, so not a big deal (I think), but getting rid of the SALT warms my heart that the leftist politicians are gonna have to scramble for paying for their new pet leftist funding ideas.
It remains to be seen though whether states like mine will use it as an excuse to raise tax rates and whether big blue states will actually lower theirs. At least the rest of the states won't be paying a share of CA and NY leftism.
I'm in a state with a low flat tax, so not a big deal (I think), but getting rid of the SALT warms my heart that the leftist politicians are gonna have to scramble for paying for their new pet leftist funding ideas.
It remains to be seen though whether states like mine will use it as an excuse to raise tax rates and whether big blue states will actually lower theirs. At least the rest of the states won't be paying a share of CA and NY leftism.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 19, 2017 04:18 PM (r+sAi)
138
Lee Zeldin is a big disappointment. But then again, all politics is local. And lucre is lucre.
People tend to think in terms of "entitlement" even those who should no better. If you live like I do in a Blue leech state, then either get out or deal with the pain for the greater good of denuding the power and influence of the blue states.
Lee Zeldin is a big disappointment. But then again, all politics is local. And lucre is lucre.
People tend to think in terms of "entitlement" even those who should no better. If you live like I do in a Blue leech state, then either get out or deal with the pain for the greater good of denuding the power and influence of the blue states.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:18 PM (mbhDw)
139
I'm asking because I don't remember hearing. The mandate being killed off is fine, but has anything really changed with insurance, how insurance is bought, and the level of insurance (think catastrophic) that I can purchase?
Posted by: Moron Robbie - High Speed Rail Denier at December 19, 2017 04:18 PM (y8m+O)
140
KNOW better, not NO better.
KNOW better, not NO better.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:18 PM (mbhDw)
141
Of course, for the Left, the object is to control as much money as possible, in furtherance of the State... ideally, for them, we would all work for the State.
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:19 PM (pL6Vz)
142
Posted by: B. D Jones at December 19, 2017 04:17 PM (KdDCu)
But...but...people never die when the Senate and House are controlled by Democrats.
But...but...people never die when the Senate and House are controlled by Democrats.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 19, 2017 04:19 PM (8+Ozj)
143
But people are going to die if this bill is passed
Nancy Pelosi
Posted by: Skip at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (aC6Sd)
Can I pick and choose who that is? Because like Santa I can put together a list
Nancy Pelosi
Posted by: Skip at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (aC6Sd)
Can I pick and choose who that is? Because like Santa I can put together a list
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 19, 2017 04:19 PM (493sH)
144
"Oh link to Patterico to prove I'm only exaggerating a tiny bit in describing his position"
Patterico is "conservative" only in the context of California, a fact that became obvious when he went off on Limbaugh for "I hope [Obama] fails" and then Jeff Goldstein.
Patterico is "conservative" only in the context of California, a fact that became obvious when he went off on Limbaugh for "I hope [Obama] fails" and then Jeff Goldstein.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 19, 2017 04:19 PM (fXIMQ)
145
72
The 12 Cucks, named and shamed:
Rep. Dan Donovan, New York
Rep. John Faso, New York
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, New Jersey
Rep. Darrell Issa, California
Rep. Walter Jones, North Carolina
Rep. Peter King, New York
Rep. Leonard Lance, New Jersey
Rep. Frank LoBiondo, New Jersey
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, California
Rep. Christopher Smith, New Jersey
Rep. Elise Stefanik, New York
Rep. Lee Zeldin, New York
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 19, 2017 04:07 PM (ul9CR)
=============
Since the bill passed, I chock this up to leadership allowing, maybe even encouraging them to vote against it to help try and save their seats.
Hell, the bill passed the House, unless you're in their district, should you care?
The 12 Cucks, named and shamed:
Rep. Dan Donovan, New York
Rep. John Faso, New York
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, New Jersey
Rep. Darrell Issa, California
Rep. Walter Jones, North Carolina
Rep. Peter King, New York
Rep. Leonard Lance, New Jersey
Rep. Frank LoBiondo, New Jersey
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, California
Rep. Christopher Smith, New Jersey
Rep. Elise Stefanik, New York
Rep. Lee Zeldin, New York
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 19, 2017 04:07 PM (ul9CR)
=============
Since the bill passed, I chock this up to leadership allowing, maybe even encouraging them to vote against it to help try and save their seats.
Hell, the bill passed the House, unless you're in their district, should you care?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at December 19, 2017 04:19 PM (ELUpj)
146
Are they supposed to be in favor of their constituents' taxes going up?
Posted by: Chris M at December 19, 2017 04:10 PM (eAZVt)
Their constituents always are. As long as they can even it out by passing it along to the rest of us. You would NOT believe the stupid that they vote for in CA. I assume the other high-tax blue states are the same. Well, now, here we go. You really want it? Pay for it, out of your own pocket. This is a big win for my President.
Are they supposed to be in favor of their constituents' taxes going up?
Posted by: Chris M at December 19, 2017 04:10 PM (eAZVt)
Their constituents always are. As long as they can even it out by passing it along to the rest of us. You would NOT believe the stupid that they vote for in CA. I assume the other high-tax blue states are the same. Well, now, here we go. You really want it? Pay for it, out of your own pocket. This is a big win for my President.
Posted by: Peaches at December 19, 2017 04:19 PM (14URa)
147
I have to admit, I had a good laugh over Nanzi Pelousy, shaking with the palsy, calling this the worst bill in the history of history.
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at December 19, 2017 04:19 PM (ul9CR)
Posted by: Chris M at December 19, 2017 04:20 PM (eAZVt)
149
122
This is kinda OT but instead of popcorn Snyders Pretzel Pieces are damn good
I recommend the Honey Mustard with Onion and Sourdough Nuggets mixed together.
This is kinda OT but instead of popcorn Snyders Pretzel Pieces are damn good
I recommend the Honey Mustard with Onion and Sourdough Nuggets mixed together.
Posted by: dartist at December 19, 2017 04:20 PM (nisXv)
150
Congrats NGU from the previous thread.
Posted by: Toddler at December 19, 2017 04:20 PM (+qrdS)
151
139 I'm asking because I don't remember hearing. The mandate being killed off is fine, but has anything really changed with insurance, how insurance is bought, and the level of insurance (think catastrophic) that I can purchase?
Posted by: Moron Robbie - High Speed Rail Denier at December 19, 2017 04:18 PM (y8m+O)
I was thinking this as well. Yes, it's good that the spine of Obamacare, the individual mandate is killed off.
But how can insurance companies fill the breach? Can they start offering their pre-Obamacare products?
Over to the Secretary of HHS for this one, I guess.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - High Speed Rail Denier at December 19, 2017 04:18 PM (y8m+O)
I was thinking this as well. Yes, it's good that the spine of Obamacare, the individual mandate is killed off.
But how can insurance companies fill the breach? Can they start offering their pre-Obamacare products?
Over to the Secretary of HHS for this one, I guess.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:20 PM (mbhDw)
152
I'm sure he's written before about how we need to eliminate deductions as well in order to make the tax code cleaner.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at December 19, 2017 04:18 PM (ELUpj)
I think he has, actually, though I don't follow him that closely so I'm not sure.
He's just proving, quite unintentionally, the problem with attempting any real reform. The people who scream for it the most also shriek the loudest when that reform affects them.
If we want reform, then those of us calling for it have to be willing at accept that it's going to hurt us too.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at December 19, 2017 04:18 PM (ELUpj)
I think he has, actually, though I don't follow him that closely so I'm not sure.
He's just proving, quite unintentionally, the problem with attempting any real reform. The people who scream for it the most also shriek the loudest when that reform affects them.
If we want reform, then those of us calling for it have to be willing at accept that it's going to hurt us too.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:20 PM (mf5HN)
153
"I look forward to a 9th Circuit judge ordering Congress to keep the mandate.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison"
That would be funny in a normal world. Except this is not normal world anymore and disparate impact is considered a valid legal concept.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison"
That would be funny in a normal world. Except this is not normal world anymore and disparate impact is considered a valid legal concept.
Posted by: Ripley at December 19, 2017 04:20 PM (MxEKc)
154
So it's mainly blue states that didn't and won't vote for Trump that the tax bill 'hurts'? Gonna be an early night the next couple of elections.
Posted by: davidt at December 19, 2017 04:20 PM (vPD1C)
155
On this day in an Alternate Universe:
Today the House passed the Hillary! Administration's "Punish the One Percent and all Cis-Gendered White Males in the Top 25 Percent Tax Reform Bill" that will increase tax rates on those groups to 95 percent.
Is that Hillary won the presidency site still around?
Today the House passed the Hillary! Administration's "Punish the One Percent and all Cis-Gendered White Males in the Top 25 Percent Tax Reform Bill" that will increase tax rates on those groups to 95 percent.
Is that Hillary won the presidency site still around?
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 19, 2017 04:20 PM (493sH)
156
Patterico says he'll never vote Republican again because this bill increases his tax burden because of the SALT reduction.
"Instead, I will always vote Democrat, who promise to raise my taxes whenever possible! That will show em!"
--Patterico, deeply confused
I'm sure he's written before about how we need to eliminate deductions as well in order to make the tax code cleaner.
I'm sure of it. But its like always: people hate congress... except vote for their congressman. People hate spending... but want nothing that they benefit from cut. Old people are a classic example (well, older than I am). This damn government is too big, too much power, takes too much in taxes but don't you dare take my medicare/medicaid/social security away!!!!!!
"Instead, I will always vote Democrat, who promise to raise my taxes whenever possible! That will show em!"
--Patterico, deeply confused
I'm sure he's written before about how we need to eliminate deductions as well in order to make the tax code cleaner.
I'm sure of it. But its like always: people hate congress... except vote for their congressman. People hate spending... but want nothing that they benefit from cut. Old people are a classic example (well, older than I am). This damn government is too big, too much power, takes too much in taxes but don't you dare take my medicare/medicaid/social security away!!!!!!
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 19, 2017 04:20 PM (39g3+)
157
So Patterico will vote Democrat now, because they are so much better on taxes.. gotcha.
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:20 PM (pL6Vz)
158
"The 12 Cucks, named and shamed:
Rep. Dan Donovan, New York
Rep. John Faso, New York
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, New Jersey
Rep. Darrell Issa, California
Rep. Walter Jones, North Carolina
Rep. Peter King, New York
Rep. Leonard Lance, New Jersey
Rep. Frank LoBiondo, New Jersey
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, California
Rep. Christopher Smith, New Jersey
Rep. Elise Stefanik, New York
Rep. Lee Zeldin, New York
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? "
My friend Jen Rubin and I salute these conservative heroes that put country over party.
Rep. Dan Donovan, New York
Rep. John Faso, New York
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, New Jersey
Rep. Darrell Issa, California
Rep. Walter Jones, North Carolina
Rep. Peter King, New York
Rep. Leonard Lance, New Jersey
Rep. Frank LoBiondo, New Jersey
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, California
Rep. Christopher Smith, New Jersey
Rep. Elise Stefanik, New York
Rep. Lee Zeldin, New York
Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? "
My friend Jen Rubin and I salute these conservative heroes that put country over party.
Posted by: Egg McMuffin at December 19, 2017 04:20 PM (OD2ni)
159
128 And that's how 'red' R's become blue. He'll still get the blame locally if this passes despite his vote.
Posted by: Leonard Pinth-Garnell at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (7A6l6)
Posted by: musical jolly chimp at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (Pg+x7)
161
Thanks for the video. Didn't watch. Ryan's sanpaku eyes of doom put me off. You're the one who told us about that.
Posted by: bour3 at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (nzl9M)
162
Just remember the WikiLeaks where Hillary gave a speech to some major bank or something saying that The USA could easily take in 600 or 700 million immigrants.
Posted by: Monk at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (g4lFK)
163
>>Hell, the bill passed the House, unless you're in their district, should you care?
Even if you are you shouldn't care.
Are people still astounded to find out that politicians practice politics?
Even if you are you shouldn't care.
Are people still astounded to find out that politicians practice politics?
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (/tuJf)
164
I'm happy if the mandate dies.
But once again GOPe only interested in passing permanent bennies for their actual constituency.
Build the wall.
But once again GOPe only interested in passing permanent bennies for their actual constituency.
Build the wall.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (4ErVI)
165
So this is for 2018 right?
Meaning lots of people won't really feel it till they file a return in 2019. After the midterms. Genius.
Meaning lots of people won't really feel it till they file a return in 2019. After the midterms. Genius.
Posted by: Suetonius at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (Dfsw5)
166
Rich Zeoli 1210am was explaining a few of those voting no are voting to their base due to being from blue states who are going to get the worst due to high state taxes
Posted by: Skip at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (aC6Sd)
167
... went behind enemy lines to get that information. you're welcome.
Posted by: musical jolly chimp at December 19, 2017 04:22 PM (Pg+x7)
168
160 huffpo headline:
"tax disaster on the verge"
Posted by: musical jolly chimp at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (Pg+x7)
As G-d as my witness, to read these headlines is like being a Soviet citizen in the 60s and 70s and trying to read between the lines of Pravda.
"tax disaster on the verge"
Posted by: musical jolly chimp at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (Pg+x7)
As G-d as my witness, to read these headlines is like being a Soviet citizen in the 60s and 70s and trying to read between the lines of Pravda.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:22 PM (mbhDw)
169
I live in NJ that just elected a governor who says "he's got their back" speaking of illegal immigrants and is going to jack up the already ridiculous taxes to pay for more sanctuary.Let it burn.
Posted by: steevy at December 19, 2017 04:22 PM (LiyEm)
170
When it comes to blondes, I always try to getitoff.
I have to do some jaw exercises sometimes, but it usually works.
I have to do some jaw exercises sometimes, but it usually works.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 19, 2017 04:23 PM (xJa6I)
171
>>>>Like I said before, Federalism Matters. Think THAT through.
I have. If your state wants to operate as a miniature Eurosocialist state, the citizens if your state can pay for it.
"Muh FEDERALISM" isn't a reason to reduce your federal taxes because you've chosen to pay for government corruption.
.
.
.
.Concur. This changes nothing in regards to what States and their residents want to do. Individual States are free to experiment on whatever they fancy. This just semi-levels the playing field by not making the rest of us *cover* part of the cost of their experiments.
I have. If your state wants to operate as a miniature Eurosocialist state, the citizens if your state can pay for it.
"Muh FEDERALISM" isn't a reason to reduce your federal taxes because you've chosen to pay for government corruption.
.
.
.
.Concur. This changes nothing in regards to what States and their residents want to do. Individual States are free to experiment on whatever they fancy. This just semi-levels the playing field by not making the rest of us *cover* part of the cost of their experiments.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at December 19, 2017 04:23 PM (+Dllb)
172
Frelinghuysen isn't awful. Certainly not a RINO in the context of the insanity that is NJ politics.
He would have lost his seat had he voted for this bill.
He would have lost his seat had he voted for this bill.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 19, 2017 04:23 PM (H7xRt)
173
huffpo headline:
"tax disaster on the verge"
Posted by: musical jolly chimp at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (Pg+x7)
=================
I can't blame the bastards for feeling that way. 99% of them live in Blue states.
"tax disaster on the verge"
Posted by: musical jolly chimp at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (Pg+x7)
=================
I can't blame the bastards for feeling that way. 99% of them live in Blue states.
Posted by: mrp at December 19, 2017 04:23 PM (Pqytn)
174
@157
So the age of Trump reveals another mendacious leftist at heart douchbag.
They're falling like flies.
So the age of Trump reveals another mendacious leftist at heart douchbag.
They're falling like flies.
Posted by: Kreplach at December 19, 2017 04:23 PM (wYkyB)
175
64 Did I get to keep my Earned Income Tax Credits on income I didn't earn or pay taxes on?
Posted by: Moron Robbie - High Speed Rail Denier at December 19, 2017 04:06 PM (T4n7S)
I believe you do, and, last I heard, the AMT is still in it. Both of those should go.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - High Speed Rail Denier at December 19, 2017 04:06 PM (T4n7S)
I believe you do, and, last I heard, the AMT is still in it. Both of those should go.
Posted by: Iowa Bob, true GOP warrior (now with 40% more principles) at December 19, 2017 04:23 PM (tu3iY)
176
Ohhhh I see what the problem is. I'm off for the
regingering in a bit and the bits of, errrm, blonde, yes, let's call it
blonde, are attempting to let human like emotions into the soul shaped
hole.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM
Blonde isn't just a hair color, it's a state of mind.
regingering in a bit and the bits of, errrm, blonde, yes, let's call it
blonde, are attempting to let human like emotions into the soul shaped
hole.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:03 PM
Blonde isn't just a hair color, it's a state of mind.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 19, 2017 04:23 PM (ctuyM)
177
Hell, the bill passed the House, unless you're in their district, should you care?
I think its natural to begrudge people who do what they can to stop something that benefits you. Which is what a "no" vote is.
I think its natural to begrudge people who do what they can to stop something that benefits you. Which is what a "no" vote is.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 19, 2017 04:23 PM (39g3+)
178
168
160 huffpo headline:
"tax disaster on the verge"
Posted by: musical jolly chimp at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (Pg+x7)
As G-d as my witness, to read these headlines is like being a Soviet citizen in the 60s and 70s and trying to read between the lines of Pravda.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:22 PM (mbhDw)
But, hey, the Democrats are the party of the working class, and so on....
160 huffpo headline:
"tax disaster on the verge"
Posted by: musical jolly chimp at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (Pg+x7)
As G-d as my witness, to read these headlines is like being a Soviet citizen in the 60s and 70s and trying to read between the lines of Pravda.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:22 PM (mbhDw)
But, hey, the Democrats are the party of the working class, and so on....
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:23 PM (pL6Vz)
Posted by: steevy at December 19, 2017 04:23 PM (LiyEm)
180
152 I'm sure he's written before about how we need to eliminate deductions as well in order to make the tax code cleaner.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at December 19, 2017 04:18 PM (ELUpj)
I think he has, actually, though I don't follow him that closely so I'm not sure.
He's just proving, quite unintentionally, the problem with attempting any real reform. The people who scream for it the most also shriek the loudest when that reform affects them.
If we want reform, then those of us calling for it have to be willing at accept that it's going to hurt us too.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:20 PM (mf5HN)
==============
That's been my thinking.
If I end up paying more next year, fine. I think it'll be worth it to get the SALT reduction, the mortgage interest deduction, and the ACA mandate repeal.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at December 19, 2017 04:18 PM (ELUpj)
I think he has, actually, though I don't follow him that closely so I'm not sure.
He's just proving, quite unintentionally, the problem with attempting any real reform. The people who scream for it the most also shriek the loudest when that reform affects them.
If we want reform, then those of us calling for it have to be willing at accept that it's going to hurt us too.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:20 PM (mf5HN)
==============
That's been my thinking.
If I end up paying more next year, fine. I think it'll be worth it to get the SALT reduction, the mortgage interest deduction, and the ACA mandate repeal.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at December 19, 2017 04:24 PM (ELUpj)
181
Now all the people that died when Trump pulled the US out of the Paris Accords will die again. Sad face
Posted by: CSMBigBird at December 19, 2017 04:24 PM (jsWA8)
182
"I live in NJ that just elected a governor who says "he's got their back" speaking of illegal immigrants and is going to jack up the already ridiculous taxes to pay for more sanctuary.Let it burn.
Posted by: steevy a"
At least your gas is cheap. Oh wait. Sorry.
Posted by: steevy a"
At least your gas is cheap. Oh wait. Sorry.
Posted by: Benji Carver at December 19, 2017 04:24 PM (OD2ni)
183
Glad the tax bill passed. It's a big win. Had Republicans failed here, it would have been a 2018 slaughter and likely one term for Trump.
I'm probably more excited about the ObamaCare mandate being repealed and ANWR than I am the tax cut itself.
I will say though I think Republicans screwed up both the selling of the plan and where most of the tax cuts went.
Big corporations that pay very little in taxes anyway got about 3/4 of the tax cut and its permanent for them. These companies did everything they could to try and derail Trump and his agenda.
GOP should have just done a clean, across the board tax cut and slanted it towards individuals and small businesses. Oh well, it's better than the current status quo.
I'm probably more excited about the ObamaCare mandate being repealed and ANWR than I am the tax cut itself.
I will say though I think Republicans screwed up both the selling of the plan and where most of the tax cuts went.
Big corporations that pay very little in taxes anyway got about 3/4 of the tax cut and its permanent for them. These companies did everything they could to try and derail Trump and his agenda.
GOP should have just done a clean, across the board tax cut and slanted it towards individuals and small businesses. Oh well, it's better than the current status quo.
Posted by: Maritime at December 19, 2017 04:24 PM (G/kZc)
184
I'm gonna take a hit because I have a lot of expensive property taxes, but if the rest of the nation does well, and employment increases it's no big deal.
It was my choice to 'go big' on housing. The annual appreciation on this place makes the tax increase look pretty puny by comparison.
Now if the local taxing authorities took a good hard look at the gawd-awful amount of money they spend and decided to cut back, that would be most excellent. But I'm not holding my breath.
I'm gonna take a hit because I have a lot of expensive property taxes, but if the rest of the nation does well, and employment increases it's no big deal.
It was my choice to 'go big' on housing. The annual appreciation on this place makes the tax increase look pretty puny by comparison.
Now if the local taxing authorities took a good hard look at the gawd-awful amount of money they spend and decided to cut back, that would be most excellent. But I'm not holding my breath.
Posted by: Acme Explosives at December 19, 2017 04:24 PM (ajiE5)
185
165 So this is for 2018 right?
Meaning lots of people won't really feel it till they file a return in 2019. After the midterms. Genius.
Posted by: Suetonius at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (Dfsw5)
I'm 57 and have been out of full time work for the past 8 years.
I am starting to get calls from recruiters again. So, I am feeling the improvement right here and now. Multiply that by the country.
Meaning lots of people won't really feel it till they file a return in 2019. After the midterms. Genius.
Posted by: Suetonius at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (Dfsw5)
I'm 57 and have been out of full time work for the past 8 years.
I am starting to get calls from recruiters again. So, I am feeling the improvement right here and now. Multiply that by the country.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:24 PM (mbhDw)
186
Damn....that's a persistent sock.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 19, 2017 04:24 PM (H7xRt)
187
"So it's mainly blue states that didn't and won't vote for Trump that the tax bill 'hurts'? "
Yep.
There was a logic that said Infrastructure should have gone first. But Chuck and Nancy were never going to play nice,
Now OCare is gutted, and Taxes through. Now play nice with Donald or no Infrastructure bucks for you.
Yep.
There was a logic that said Infrastructure should have gone first. But Chuck and Nancy were never going to play nice,
Now OCare is gutted, and Taxes through. Now play nice with Donald or no Infrastructure bucks for you.
Posted by: Ignoramus at December 19, 2017 04:24 PM (cAXIk)
188
And apparently Nancy Pelosi trotted out phrase, "in this holy Season" we ought to think of the poor.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 19, 2017 04:24 PM (8+Ozj)
189
159
128 And that's how 'red' R's become blue. He'll still get the blame locally if this passes despite his vote.
Posted by: Leonard Pinth-Garnell at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (7A6l6)
What nobody is talking about is the fact that somewhere around 30% of filers itemize. This is a big win for folks who don't. They get to keep more money. Don't count on all that red turning blue. I honestly think it's going to sway the unwashed masses the other way.
128 And that's how 'red' R's become blue. He'll still get the blame locally if this passes despite his vote.
Posted by: Leonard Pinth-Garnell at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (7A6l6)
What nobody is talking about is the fact that somewhere around 30% of filers itemize. This is a big win for folks who don't. They get to keep more money. Don't count on all that red turning blue. I honestly think it's going to sway the unwashed masses the other way.
Posted by: Peaches at December 19, 2017 04:25 PM (14URa)
190
huffpo headline:
"tax disaster on the verge"
I'm surprised there are any survivors from the end of net neutrality, Gorsuch appointment and end of insurance co. subsidies. And now this? How much can one take?
"tax disaster on the verge"
I'm surprised there are any survivors from the end of net neutrality, Gorsuch appointment and end of insurance co. subsidies. And now this? How much can one take?
Posted by: Ripley at December 19, 2017 04:25 PM (MxEKc)
191
153
That would be funny in a normal world. Except this is not normal world anymore and disparate impact is considered a valid legal concept.
Posted by: Ripley at December 19, 2017 04:20 PM (MxEKc)
=============
Only by morons.
Why does that not comfort me?
That would be funny in a normal world. Except this is not normal world anymore and disparate impact is considered a valid legal concept.
Posted by: Ripley at December 19, 2017 04:20 PM (MxEKc)
=============
Only by morons.
Why does that not comfort me?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at December 19, 2017 04:25 PM (ELUpj)
192
>>>>So this is for 2018 right?
Meaning lots of people won't really feel it till they file a return in 2019. After the midterms. Genius.
.
.
.Uh no....most people will see increased paychecks after the IRS publishes the new withholding tables sometime this Spring or Sumner right before the elections in November. Genius.
Meaning lots of people won't really feel it till they file a return in 2019. After the midterms. Genius.
.
.
.Uh no....most people will see increased paychecks after the IRS publishes the new withholding tables sometime this Spring or Sumner right before the elections in November. Genius.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at December 19, 2017 04:25 PM (+Dllb)
193
>>Now all the people that died when Trump pulled the US out of the Paris Accords will die again. Sad face
They haven't recovered yet from their Net Neutrality death.
They haven't recovered yet from their Net Neutrality death.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:25 PM (/tuJf)
194
Originally it was the Corporate tax cuts that were scheduled to expire and the individual cuts were permanent. The Dems would have happily let those expire if they got the chance, so someone got smart and they flipped them. As Ace said, it's a lot harder for them to let the individual tax cuts expire! #WINNING
Posted by: Formerly known as Skeptic at December 19, 2017 04:25 PM (91XRk)
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 19, 2017 04:26 PM (4ErVI)
196
Is mccancer going to there?
Posted by: #neverskankles at December 19, 2017 04:26 PM (vwl+l)
197
I can't blame the bastards for feeling that way. 99% of them live in Blue states.
Except most people living in those states will get a break; its only the richer folks there that will have a tougher time of it.
Except most people living in those states will get a break; its only the richer folks there that will have a tougher time of it.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 19, 2017 04:26 PM (39g3+)
198
So this is for 2018 right?
Meaning lots of people won't really feel it till they file a return in 2019. After the midterms. Genius.
Posted by: Suetonius at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (Dfsw5)
The doubling of the standard deduction affect the amount of withholding. IIRC, and I might not, that will go into effect in February, 2018.
Which means people will see more money in their paychecks just as the bills for Christmas start coming due.
Meaning lots of people won't really feel it till they file a return in 2019. After the midterms. Genius.
Posted by: Suetonius at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (Dfsw5)
The doubling of the standard deduction affect the amount of withholding. IIRC, and I might not, that will go into effect in February, 2018.
Which means people will see more money in their paychecks just as the bills for Christmas start coming due.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:26 PM (mf5HN)
199
163 >>Hell, the bill passed the House, unless you're in their district, should you care?
Even if you are you shouldn't care.
Are people still astounded to find out that politicians practice politics?
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (/tuJf)
==============
*Fainting couch*
If I did live in the district I would care, because I would feel that by voting against it they are voting against my interests, but since the bill passed, by displeasure would be muted.
Even if you are you shouldn't care.
Are people still astounded to find out that politicians practice politics?
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:21 PM (/tuJf)
==============
*Fainting couch*
If I did live in the district I would care, because I would feel that by voting against it they are voting against my interests, but since the bill passed, by displeasure would be muted.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at December 19, 2017 04:26 PM (ELUpj)
200
I've heard they expect the new witholdings by as early as February!
Posted by: Formerly known as Skeptic at December 19, 2017 04:26 PM (91XRk)
201
Cryptocurrencies hardest hit after January 1st?
Posted by: mrp at December 19, 2017 04:26 PM (Pqytn)
202
"So it's mainly blue states that didn't and won't vote for Trump that the tax bill 'hurts'?"
Well yeah, along with the 40% of residents in those states who did vote for Trump.
Well yeah, along with the 40% of residents in those states who did vote for Trump.
Posted by: Chris M at December 19, 2017 04:27 PM (eAZVt)
203
183 Oh well, it's better than the current status quo.
Posted by: Maritime at December 19, 2017 04:24 PM (G/kZc)
Double-edged sword, thanks to cronyism. Corporations, for better or worse, do the hiring. Not welfare recipients.
And when the $2 trillion offshore is repatriated and pumped back into the economy, I'm sure we all will be whistling a different tune. Already am.
Posted by: Maritime at December 19, 2017 04:24 PM (G/kZc)
Double-edged sword, thanks to cronyism. Corporations, for better or worse, do the hiring. Not welfare recipients.
And when the $2 trillion offshore is repatriated and pumped back into the economy, I'm sure we all will be whistling a different tune. Already am.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:27 PM (mbhDw)
204
Here is where I reveal that I am a naive child. Unless it got changed in the final bill, I lost the only deduction I take, namely, the student loan interest deduction. Okay. Fine. You see, I understand that to get what I want, namely, lower rates, I have to give up one of my goodies. I assumed, because I'm an idiot, that everyone else knew how the game was played as well. Give some to get some. You know, as has been for all of human history.
I do not comprehend all the caterwauling by, to pull a name out of a hat, Patterico about how if his state and local tax deduction was cut he was never ever ever voting GOP ever again because that would hurt him badly economically.
Gee. It's a mystery why it is that the ratchet only goes to the left when super duper ultra conservatives rawwwrrr lose their minds when something that benefits them is threatened. It's a mystery, really.
Oh link to Patterico to prove I'm only exaggerating a tiny bit in describing his position:
http://bit.ly/2Bgc5wy
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (mf5HN)
OK, Alex, as one of those people with a mortgage
and property taxes, let me explain:
Ultimately, I favor a flat tax, but people like me, in good faith, made the most important financial decision of our lives based in part--sometimes in very large part--on the tax deductions available to us. Transitioning to a flat tax requires a gradual phase out of deductions over a long period of time to prevent trapping taxpayers in a bait-and-switch world where deductions we had long counted upon suddenly vanish.
This bill ignores that necessity for a good many people, even if, on balance, i do support many other parts of it.
I do not comprehend all the caterwauling by, to pull a name out of a hat, Patterico about how if his state and local tax deduction was cut he was never ever ever voting GOP ever again because that would hurt him badly economically.
Gee. It's a mystery why it is that the ratchet only goes to the left when super duper ultra conservatives rawwwrrr lose their minds when something that benefits them is threatened. It's a mystery, really.
Oh link to Patterico to prove I'm only exaggerating a tiny bit in describing his position:
http://bit.ly/2Bgc5wy
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (mf5HN)
OK, Alex, as one of those people with a mortgage
and property taxes, let me explain:
Ultimately, I favor a flat tax, but people like me, in good faith, made the most important financial decision of our lives based in part--sometimes in very large part--on the tax deductions available to us. Transitioning to a flat tax requires a gradual phase out of deductions over a long period of time to prevent trapping taxpayers in a bait-and-switch world where deductions we had long counted upon suddenly vanish.
This bill ignores that necessity for a good many people, even if, on balance, i do support many other parts of it.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at December 19, 2017 04:27 PM (ujg0T)
205
116 But people are going to die if this bill is passed
Nancy Pelosi
Posted by: Skip at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (aC6Sd)
Too late. They are already dead from the FCC elimination of the Net Neutrality rules.
Nancy Pelosi
Posted by: Skip at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (aC6Sd)
Too late. They are already dead from the FCC elimination of the Net Neutrality rules.
Posted by: Minuteman at December 19, 2017 04:27 PM (A3b6q)
206
What nobody is talking about is the fact that somewhere around 30% of filers itemize.
Precisely. I take a hit with the cap of SALT at 10K, but the doubling of the standard deduction more than makes up for it. Of course, my mortgage is paid off and we went "small" on our house.
It will be weird filing with the standard deduction for the fist time in 19-years.
Precisely. I take a hit with the cap of SALT at 10K, but the doubling of the standard deduction more than makes up for it. Of course, my mortgage is paid off and we went "small" on our house.
It will be weird filing with the standard deduction for the fist time in 19-years.
Posted by: DocJ at December 19, 2017 04:27 PM (NYS7S)
207
Anyone have a link to the GOP calculator (or other reasonably up to date one?) trying to play around with the numbers a bit.
Posted by: Ryan Frank at December 19, 2017 04:27 PM (EKxGt)
208
196 Is mccancer going to there?
Posted by: #neverskankles at December 19, 2017 04:26 PM (vwl+l)
No. That's why Pence cancelled his Israel and Egypt trip to January to be the tiebreaker if needed tonight.
Posted by: #neverskankles at December 19, 2017 04:26 PM (vwl+l)
No. That's why Pence cancelled his Israel and Egypt trip to January to be the tiebreaker if needed tonight.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:28 PM (mbhDw)
209
According to this chart of Fed spending...:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/CBO_Infographic_2016.png
...we're really just tinkering with the margins. About 90% of Fed spending is "mandatory" or unavoidable.
To restructure the way the Federal government works is a decades-long, and possibly centuries-long, project.
About 75% of the fed's spending is essentially on "redistributionary" welfare schemes: Either rich people supporting poor people (welfare), healthy people supporting sick people (Medicaid, Obamacare), young people supporting old people (Social Security), employed people supporting unemployed people, etc. etc.
This is so permanently baked into the system that to unbake it would entail basically a top-to-bottok civilizational revolution.
A little of each type of redistribution would be fine, but it has grown to such unimaginable scales that it has consumed us as a nation. We still plummet into debt by the trillions every year, with no end in sight.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/CBO_Infographic_2016.png
...we're really just tinkering with the margins. About 90% of Fed spending is "mandatory" or unavoidable.
To restructure the way the Federal government works is a decades-long, and possibly centuries-long, project.
About 75% of the fed's spending is essentially on "redistributionary" welfare schemes: Either rich people supporting poor people (welfare), healthy people supporting sick people (Medicaid, Obamacare), young people supporting old people (Social Security), employed people supporting unemployed people, etc. etc.
This is so permanently baked into the system that to unbake it would entail basically a top-to-bottok civilizational revolution.
A little of each type of redistribution would be fine, but it has grown to such unimaginable scales that it has consumed us as a nation. We still plummet into debt by the trillions every year, with no end in sight.
Posted by: zombie at December 19, 2017 04:28 PM (42M22)
210
These cucks who voted no were given 10k deductions for nothing. Should have kept it at zero.
Posted by: #neverskankles at December 19, 2017 04:28 PM (vwl+l)
211
182 Ha,yeah,that was a parting gift from fat fuck not to mention he killed any chance of a Republican winning as well...
Posted by: steevy at December 19, 2017 04:28 PM (LiyEm)
212
>>>>What nobody is talking about is the fact that somewhere around 30% of filers itemize.
Precisely.
I take a hit with the cap of SALT at 10K, but the doubling of the
standard deduction more than makes up for it. Of course, my mortgage is
paid off and we went "small" on our house.
It will be weird filing with the standard deduction for the fist time in 19-years.
.
.
.Same here. We haven't taken the standard deduction since 1995.
Precisely.
I take a hit with the cap of SALT at 10K, but the doubling of the
standard deduction more than makes up for it. Of course, my mortgage is
paid off and we went "small" on our house.
It will be weird filing with the standard deduction for the fist time in 19-years.
.
.
.Same here. We haven't taken the standard deduction since 1995.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at December 19, 2017 04:28 PM (+Dllb)
213
you can buy a non obamacare compliant plan. it just doesn't satisfy the mandate. the mandate that you won't have to comply with soon. eat shit obama.
Posted by: x at December 19, 2017 04:28 PM (nFwvY)
Posted by: logprof at December 19, 2017 04:28 PM (GsAUU)
215
But people are going to die if this bill is passed
Nancy Pelosi
Posted by: Skip at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (aC6Sd)
Can I pick and choose who that is? Because like Santa I can put together a list
Posted by: TheQuietMan
yet another reason why I love this place.
Nancy Pelosi
Posted by: Skip at December 19, 2017 04:14 PM (aC6Sd)
Can I pick and choose who that is? Because like Santa I can put together a list
Posted by: TheQuietMan
yet another reason why I love this place.
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 19, 2017 04:29 PM (326rv)
216
Last I saw, you get up to 10K of property tax benefit.
Posted by: CSMBigBird at December 19, 2017 04:29 PM (jsWA8)
217
Too late. They are already dead from the FCC elimination of the Net Neutrality rules.
Posted by: Minuteman at December 19, 2017 04:27 PM (A3b6q)
They're approaching the levels of cats with their number lives. They were going to die after the pullout from the Paris accords. They were going to die over Net neutrality. They are going to die over the Tax bill
Posted by: Minuteman at December 19, 2017 04:27 PM (A3b6q)
They're approaching the levels of cats with their number lives. They were going to die after the pullout from the Paris accords. They were going to die over Net neutrality. They are going to die over the Tax bill
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 19, 2017 04:29 PM (8+Ozj)
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at December 19, 2017 04:29 PM (3DZIZ)
219
195 Fifty thousand people just died because of this bill
-CNN
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 19, 2017 04:26 PM (4ErVI)
And I didn't even send a card! Oy.
-CNN
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 19, 2017 04:26 PM (4ErVI)
And I didn't even send a card! Oy.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:29 PM (mbhDw)
220
I wish the CBO would acknowledge that we are on the wrong side of the Laffer curve. Then they would reconcile with the promise of tax cuts.
Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 19, 2017 04:29 PM (XNNkk)
221
The latest I read was that the student loan deduction was saved.
Posted by: No One of Consequence at December 19, 2017 04:29 PM (EaYJQ)
Posted by: logprof at December 19, 2017 04:30 PM (GsAUU)
223
Herman's Hermits new dicks? Wha...?!
Herman's Hermits new dicks? Wha...?!
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:30 PM (mbhDw)
224
181 Now all the people that died when Trump pulled the US out of the Paris Accords will die again. Sad face
Posted by: CSMBigBird at December 19, 2017 04:24 PM (jsWA
And so soon after they died from Net Neutrality being repealed. Such a shame.
Posted by: CSMBigBird at December 19, 2017 04:24 PM (jsWA
And so soon after they died from Net Neutrality being repealed. Such a shame.
Posted by: buzzion at December 19, 2017 04:30 PM (lKs2v)
225
220 I wish the CBO would acknowledge that we are on the wrong side of the Laffer curve. Then they would reconcile with the promise of tax cuts.
Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 19, 2017 04:29 PM (XNNkk)
=============
I've heard they break out in hives if anyone says "Laffer Curve" in the building.
Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 19, 2017 04:29 PM (XNNkk)
=============
I've heard they break out in hives if anyone says "Laffer Curve" in the building.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at December 19, 2017 04:30 PM (ELUpj)
226
Who sells non compliant plans? I jave yet to find one in 5 years
Posted by: #neverskankles at December 19, 2017 04:30 PM (vwl+l)
227
I have. If your state wants to operate as a miniature Eurosocialist state, the citizens if your state can pay for it.
"Muh FEDERALISM" isn't a reason to reduce your federal taxes because you've chosen to pay for government corruption.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 19, 2017 04:16 PM (fXIMQ)
No, you haven't. Federalism means encouraging more get done at the state and local level, and your tax code discourages that.
As for Cali Corruption, then cut off any and all funding to the sanctuary cities, great! Withold federal grants and other spending here. I am all for that.
But yes Federalism does matter and your mocking "Muh FEDERALISM" does not change that. I expect better from conservatives and patriots.
"Muh FEDERALISM" isn't a reason to reduce your federal taxes because you've chosen to pay for government corruption.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 19, 2017 04:16 PM (fXIMQ)
No, you haven't. Federalism means encouraging more get done at the state and local level, and your tax code discourages that.
As for Cali Corruption, then cut off any and all funding to the sanctuary cities, great! Withold federal grants and other spending here. I am all for that.
But yes Federalism does matter and your mocking "Muh FEDERALISM" does not change that. I expect better from conservatives and patriots.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at December 19, 2017 04:30 PM (ujg0T)
228
(AP) - Gleeful Republicans on Tuesday muscled the most sweeping rewrite of the nation's tax laws in more than three decades through the House. House Speaker Paul Ryan dismissed criticism of the widely unpopular package and insisted "results are what's going to make this popular."
The North Korean media looks on in awe
(AP) - Gleeful Republicans on Tuesday muscled the most sweeping rewrite of the nation's tax laws in more than three decades through the House. House Speaker Paul Ryan dismissed criticism of the widely unpopular package and insisted "results are what's going to make this popular."
The North Korean media looks on in awe
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 19, 2017 04:30 PM (493sH)
229
222 WHo blew out da margins?
Who?
Who?
Posted by: logprof at December 19, 2017 04:30 PM (GsAUU)
Zombie
Who?
Who?
Posted by: logprof at December 19, 2017 04:30 PM (GsAUU)
Zombie
Posted by: buzzion at December 19, 2017 04:30 PM (lKs2v)
230
Yu Darvish talking to the Cubs.
Hmmmmm.
Posted by: logprof at December 19, 2017 04:28 PM
Well, we know they won't be giving him any lip.
Hmmmmm.
Posted by: logprof at December 19, 2017 04:28 PM
Well, we know they won't be giving him any lip.
Posted by: zombie Leo Derocher at December 19, 2017 04:30 PM (ctuyM)
231
"And apparently Nancy Pelosi trotted out phrase, "in this holy Season" we ought to think of the poor."
I'm thinking of them getting jobs because the economy is rebounding. Much, much better for them emotionally than a handout.
I'm thinking of them getting jobs because the economy is rebounding. Much, much better for them emotionally than a handout.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 19, 2017 04:31 PM (fXIMQ)
232
No. That's why Pence cancelled his Israel and Egypt trip to January to be the tiebreaker if needed tonight.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:28 PM (mbhDw)
He's a good man, our VP. And I suspect his vote will be needed.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:28 PM (mbhDw)
He's a good man, our VP. And I suspect his vote will be needed.
Posted by: Peaches at December 19, 2017 04:31 PM (14URa)
233
232 No. That's why Pence cancelled his Israel and Egypt trip to January to be the tiebreaker if needed tonight.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:28 PM (mbhDw)
He's a good man, our VP. And I suspect his vote will be needed.
Posted by: Peaches at December 19, 2017 04:31 PM (14URa)
Fuckin' Flake is problematic.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:28 PM (mbhDw)
He's a good man, our VP. And I suspect his vote will be needed.
Posted by: Peaches at December 19, 2017 04:31 PM (14URa)
Fuckin' Flake is problematic.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:31 PM (mbhDw)
234
In Georgia we had one provider for 2017 in Blue Cross Blue Shield. They pulled out in 70% or more of the counties. This JV squad came in and sent a letter to everybody including agents saying that any state where no other viable insurance was offered you had until January 31st to open enroll.
Nope they lied. It was December 15th. Also they are not processing applications and are fucking everything up. People have no idea if they are covered, they are being turned down and not approved so have nowhere to go.
My agent is convinced that the companies want single payer.
Its a real shit show. I dismissed the Republicans dropping the ball on repeal and replace, but now not so much.
Nope they lied. It was December 15th. Also they are not processing applications and are fucking everything up. People have no idea if they are covered, they are being turned down and not approved so have nowhere to go.
My agent is convinced that the companies want single payer.
Its a real shit show. I dismissed the Republicans dropping the ball on repeal and replace, but now not so much.
Posted by: Monk at December 19, 2017 04:31 PM (g4lFK)
235
But people are going to die if this bill is passed
Nancy Pelosi
Non passage guarantees eternal life.
But people are going to die if this bill is passed
Nancy Pelosi
Non passage guarantees eternal life.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 19, 2017 04:31 PM (IqV8l)
236
10k combined sales, imcome property tax however you want to divy it up
Posted by: #neverskankles at December 19, 2017 04:32 PM (vwl+l)
237
189 If your >$750K mortgage deduction gets kneecapped along with your crazy CA state taxes, that's a real hit next year. Nobody wants to pay the piper if they're used to having uncle sugar do it. That's what turns once reliably R districts blue over time.
Posted by: Leonard Pinth-Garnell at December 19, 2017 04:32 PM (7A6l6)
238
I remember the great Patterico vs Protein Wisdom war.
It got hermeneutics all over everything.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at December 19, 2017 04:29 PM
Protein Wisdom.
Is that what they're calling it these days?
It got hermeneutics all over everything.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at December 19, 2017 04:29 PM
Protein Wisdom.
Is that what they're calling it these days?
Posted by: The Ficus at December 19, 2017 04:32 PM (ctuyM)
239
235
But people are going to die if this bill is passed
Nancy Pelosi
Non passage guarantees eternal life.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 19, 2017 04:31 PM (IqV8l)
... for the Bureaucracy.
But people are going to die if this bill is passed
Nancy Pelosi
Non passage guarantees eternal life.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 19, 2017 04:31 PM (IqV8l)
... for the Bureaucracy.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:32 PM (mbhDw)
240
House Speaker Paul Ryan dismissed criticism of the widely unpopular
package and insisted "results are what's going to make this popular."
Nice wishcasting, AP. Very nice.
package and insisted "results are what's going to make this popular."
Nice wishcasting, AP. Very nice.
Posted by: DocJ at December 19, 2017 04:32 PM (NYS7S)
241
I still think Darvish is a great pitcher, if he can mentally get past his disastrous World Series.
Posted by: logprof at December 19, 2017 04:32 PM (GsAUU)
242
209 zombie:
yes. 30 years ago the threat was recognized and there was discussion of reducing the rate of increase of entitlement programs. the democrats shut that down. now, it's difficult to see (for me, at least) how that or the debt itself can be reduced at all.
yes. 30 years ago the threat was recognized and there was discussion of reducing the rate of increase of entitlement programs. the democrats shut that down. now, it's difficult to see (for me, at least) how that or the debt itself can be reduced at all.
Posted by: musical jolly chimp at December 19, 2017 04:33 PM (Pg+x7)
243
Speaking of PW, it is a shame happyfeet doesn't stop by more often. He's a hoot.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at December 19, 2017 04:33 PM (3DZIZ)
244
Is this doubling of the standard deduction and so forth going to take effect in 2018? I mean, will it be on the 1040xx forms?
Posted by: Willie Nelson at December 19, 2017 04:33 PM (9xaT+)
245
"OK, Alex, as one of those people with a mortgage
and property taxes, let me explain:"
Weird. I also have a mortgage and property taxes. I just had the sense not to buy in a Blue Hell.
and property taxes, let me explain:"
Weird. I also have a mortgage and property taxes. I just had the sense not to buy in a Blue Hell.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 19, 2017 04:33 PM (fXIMQ)
246
The high tax SALT states will be upside down on their very generous state employee pensions immediately. Next under the gun will be freebies for illegals which will fall even more under the "welfare" reform that Trump wants next year. If the state residents of these states really, really want these benefits for residents they will happily pay for them. Surely. Bwahahahaha.
Posted by: Lester at December 19, 2017 04:34 PM (LfJIn)
Posted by: B. D Jones at December 19, 2017 04:34 PM (KdDCu)
248
This bill blew the margins. See you later.
Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 19, 2017 04:34 PM (XNNkk)
249
This would be a good time to go big with the Fair Tax.
Eliminate taxing income and change the system for the better.
Eliminate taxing income and change the system for the better.
Posted by: Jwest at December 19, 2017 04:34 PM (/roJx)
250
240 House Speaker Paul Ryan dismissed criticism of the widely unpopular
package and insisted "results are what's going to make this popular."
Nice wishcasting, AP. Very nice.
Posted by: DocJ at December 19, 2017 04:32 PM (NYS7S)
And Ryno has no idea how to speak. The criticism of the package as unpopular is, how you say, a lie. It is very popular with real people.
He needs tutoring by Sarah Sanders.
package and insisted "results are what's going to make this popular."
Nice wishcasting, AP. Very nice.
Posted by: DocJ at December 19, 2017 04:32 PM (NYS7S)
And Ryno has no idea how to speak. The criticism of the package as unpopular is, how you say, a lie. It is very popular with real people.
He needs tutoring by Sarah Sanders.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:34 PM (mbhDw)
251
Darrell Issa only likes tax cuts for Iran.
Darrell Issa only likes tax cuts for Iran.
Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at December 19, 2017 04:34 PM (G8LR7)
252
For anyone interested in the previous thread about Charles Cooke slamming Jen Rubin for mindless TDS, Cooke just posted a response to David Frum that is pretty biting. Cooke also gives his thoughts on Trump which I respect. He remains wary of Trump but give him credit when deserved.
Posted by: Benji Carver at December 19, 2017 04:34 PM (OD2ni)
253
The tax bill will DEFINATELY raise my taxes, because of the way my income is structured. However it incentivizes me to begin converting traditional qualified assets to Roth assets and taxable accounts, at far lower tax rates than current ones.
My overall problem with this legislation is that with the left in power, tax rates will be raised relentlessly with fewer places to run and hide.
We will eventually get back to current fed tax rates, but with far fewer deductions.
The tax bill will DEFINATELY raise my taxes, because of the way my income is structured. However it incentivizes me to begin converting traditional qualified assets to Roth assets and taxable accounts, at far lower tax rates than current ones.
My overall problem with this legislation is that with the left in power, tax rates will be raised relentlessly with fewer places to run and hide.
We will eventually get back to current fed tax rates, but with far fewer deductions.
Posted by: Ladyl at December 19, 2017 04:34 PM (TdMsT)
254
Patterico says he'll never vote Republican again because this bill increases his tax burden because of the SALT reduction.
"Instead, I will always vote Democrat, who promise to raise my taxes whenever possible! That will show em!"
--Patterico, deeply confused
---------------
Deeply confused, indeed. Those SALT reductions encouraged and allowed blue states to be exactly the kind of lousy socialists that he claims to disapprove of. Moreover, people in those states will not stop voting for lousy socialists who pick their pocket at every opportunity so long as that pocket-picking is tax deductible.
"Instead, I will always vote Democrat, who promise to raise my taxes whenever possible! That will show em!"
--Patterico, deeply confused
---------------
Deeply confused, indeed. Those SALT reductions encouraged and allowed blue states to be exactly the kind of lousy socialists that he claims to disapprove of. Moreover, people in those states will not stop voting for lousy socialists who pick their pocket at every opportunity so long as that pocket-picking is tax deductible.
Posted by: redbanzai at December 19, 2017 04:35 PM (f5uaD)
255
Maybe blue state people should start taking more of an interest in state and local government.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at December 19, 2017 04:35 PM (3DZIZ)
256
232 No. That's why Pence cancelled his Israel and Egypt trip to January to be the tiebreaker if needed tonight.
Not possible. With McVain out of commission it's 51-48 so the GOPe can suffer only 1 defection (looking at you SnowFlake) or the bill fails and the Republican Party commits suicide.
My guess is that Chester McTurtle knows he has the votes.
Not possible. With McVain out of commission it's 51-48 so the GOPe can suffer only 1 defection (looking at you SnowFlake) or the bill fails and the Republican Party commits suicide.
My guess is that Chester McTurtle knows he has the votes.
Posted by: DocJ at December 19, 2017 04:35 PM (NYS7S)
257
This ideathat Cal/NY/IL will rein in spending will only so so far as those who do not leave their state.
Their reply will be: go talk to the federal gov't. We're spending what we're spending.
This will be an issue and actually make people look at their state tax rates. This is good.
Their reply will be: go talk to the federal gov't. We're spending what we're spending.
This will be an issue and actually make people look at their state tax rates. This is good.
Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal at December 19, 2017 04:35 PM (bB4HN)
258
Dems don't care about honest hardworking taxpayers, because we aren't their constituency. My taxes will go down, and as soon as I can I will split from Connecticut so I'm not left to turn out lights.
Posted by: regular joe at December 19, 2017 04:35 PM (rO07P)
259
181 Now all the people that died when Trump pulled the US out of the Paris Accords will die again. Sad face
Posted by: CSMBigBird at December 19, 2017 04:24 PM (jsWA
Actually they will die two more times since the Obamacare Mandate elimination will kill them once and then the other tax cuts will kill them again. Plus they were killed when Trump pulled us out of the TTP.
Since he's killed the population of the US five times over, that means he's killed more than One Billion Five Hundred Million people.
So Trump is worse than Hitler, Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot COMBINED!!!
Posted by: CSMBigBird at December 19, 2017 04:24 PM (jsWA
Actually they will die two more times since the Obamacare Mandate elimination will kill them once and then the other tax cuts will kill them again. Plus they were killed when Trump pulled us out of the TTP.
Since he's killed the population of the US five times over, that means he's killed more than One Billion Five Hundred Million people.
So Trump is worse than Hitler, Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot COMBINED!!!
Posted by: Minuteman at December 19, 2017 04:35 PM (A3b6q)
260
The high tax SALT states will be upside down on their very generous state employee pensions immediately. Next under the gun will be freebies for illegals which will fall even more under the "welfare" reform that Trump wants next year.
Next under the gun? That should be first.
Next under the gun? That should be first.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at December 19, 2017 04:35 PM (ujg0T)
261
237 189 If your >$750K mortgage deduction gets kneecapped along with your crazy CA state taxes, that's a real hit next year. Nobody wants to pay the piper if they're used to having uncle sugar do it. That's what turns once reliably R districts blue over time.
Posted by: Leonard Pinth-Garnell
we could lose California if we don't subsidize their gay speed trains!
Posted by: Leonard Pinth-Garnell
we could lose California if we don't subsidize their gay speed trains!
Posted by: x at December 19, 2017 04:35 PM (nFwvY)
262
I had extra time this afternoon due to a morning business meeting going short. So headed to a mall to pick up a suit that had been altered, and do some last minute shopping. While there, the most obstreperous, rude, demanding A-hole was chewing out the tailor for not getting his pants right: "Does this look like top of the shoe to you? Does it? This is strike three and you're out ! Maybe I should take my suit shopping business elsewhere !!!"
Part of the problem may, in my amateur opinion, have been due to his enormous, pear-shaped waist and ass. Which means that how his pants hit his shoes is basically a random walk between where he arbitrarily places his "beltline" and whether he shifts his ass and makes the pants fall lower.
F-ing embarrassing as a human being. Then he turns to his wife and says (angrily, as he has said everything up to now) "Can you believe they're about to pass that tax bill ..?"
Yup. Another proud defender of the Common Man against The Corporations, doubtless of the unionized "public servant" variety.
Part of the problem may, in my amateur opinion, have been due to his enormous, pear-shaped waist and ass. Which means that how his pants hit his shoes is basically a random walk between where he arbitrarily places his "beltline" and whether he shifts his ass and makes the pants fall lower.
F-ing embarrassing as a human being. Then he turns to his wife and says (angrily, as he has said everything up to now) "Can you believe they're about to pass that tax bill ..?"
Yup. Another proud defender of the Common Man against The Corporations, doubtless of the unionized "public servant" variety.
Posted by: xnycpeasant at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (BsGS1)
263
Nancy Pelosi wanton murderer of unborn children I suspect has no standing in the eyes of God
Posted by: Skip at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (aC6Sd)
264
>>>>"And apparently Nancy Pelosi trotted out phrase, "in this holy Season" we ought to think of the poor."
I'm thinking of them getting jobs because the economy is rebounding. Much, much better for them emotionally than a handout.
.
.
.They need to come to NE Texas. We have 3.2% unemployment rate here and about 1.5 open jobs for every applicant. If you want to work you can get a decent job in a day, and I ain't talking about being the fryolater person at McDonald's.
I'm thinking of them getting jobs because the economy is rebounding. Much, much better for them emotionally than a handout.
.
.
.They need to come to NE Texas. We have 3.2% unemployment rate here and about 1.5 open jobs for every applicant. If you want to work you can get a decent job in a day, and I ain't talking about being the fryolater person at McDonald's.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (+Dllb)
265
244 Is this doubling of the standard deduction and so forth going to take effect in 2018? I mean, will it be on the 1040xx forms?
Posted by: Willie Nelson at December 19, 2017 04:33 PM (9xaT+)
--I hope so.
Politically, it would be a winner.
Plus, money's tight right now.
Posted by: Willie Nelson at December 19, 2017 04:33 PM (9xaT+)
--I hope so.
Politically, it would be a winner.
Plus, money's tight right now.
Posted by: logprof at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (GsAUU)
266
This won't have any effect on money laundering, will it? Asking for a friend...
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (pL6Vz)
267
I think PDT needs to start thinking in terms of actual permanent cutting of the size and scope of government itself.
That will cause a revolt for sure. I approve. Please G-d.
I think PDT needs to start thinking in terms of actual permanent cutting of the size and scope of government itself.
That will cause a revolt for sure. I approve. Please G-d.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (mbhDw)
268
And apparently Nancy Pelosi trotted out phrase, "in this holy Season" we ought to think of the poor.
And it's okay for her to say that because she's a "devout" baby killing Catholic.
And it's okay for her to say that because she's a "devout" baby killing Catholic.
Posted by: tu3031 at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (O5Q3r)
269
My agent is convinced that the companies want single payer.
---
F*ck yeah they do. If for no other reason, think about when a car is built in the United States and then abruptly moves production to Mexico.
Does the manufacturer pass the labor, regulatory, etc. savings along to the consumer, or does the manufacturer pocket the money?
---
F*ck yeah they do. If for no other reason, think about when a car is built in the United States and then abruptly moves production to Mexico.
Does the manufacturer pass the labor, regulatory, etc. savings along to the consumer, or does the manufacturer pocket the money?
Posted by: Moron Robbie - High Speed Rail Denier at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (T4n7S)
270
220 I wish the CBO would acknowledge that we are on the wrong side of the Laffer curve. Then they would reconcile with the promise of tax cuts.
Posted by: BourbonChicken /i]
Despite the propaganda by the Left in the '80s gettin' all hysterical about the Laffer Curve, it is actually a LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE economic theory. The goal of the Laffer Curve is to INCREASE government revenue. Which is what the Left actually wants. A true small-government conservative strived to DECREASE government revenue.
Laffer calculated -- and plotted on a graph -- what percentage levels of taxation would result in the MOST being collected by the government.
At one end of the scale, if the tax rate was 0%, then revenue would of course be zero.
At the other end of the scale, if the tax rate was 100% the revenue would also be zero or close to zero, because no one would work since working would earn you nothing (since the government would confiscate it all).
The trick is to find the "Goldilocks Zone" somewhere in the middle where taxes are low enough to induce people to work, but high enough so that the government gets a juicy share.
I think it worked out to somewhere around 30% tax rate as the optimum for maximized government revenue.
BUT -- why is that the goal? It's a progressive notion in the first place to increase the government. The Laffer Curve has the goal reversed: We should be trying to empower and enrich the INDIVIDUAL, not the COLLECTIVE.
To that end, taxes should always be lowered, EVEN IF IT DECREASED FEDERAL REVENUES.
Posted by: BourbonChicken /i]
Despite the propaganda by the Left in the '80s gettin' all hysterical about the Laffer Curve, it is actually a LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE economic theory. The goal of the Laffer Curve is to INCREASE government revenue. Which is what the Left actually wants. A true small-government conservative strived to DECREASE government revenue.
Laffer calculated -- and plotted on a graph -- what percentage levels of taxation would result in the MOST being collected by the government.
At one end of the scale, if the tax rate was 0%, then revenue would of course be zero.
At the other end of the scale, if the tax rate was 100% the revenue would also be zero or close to zero, because no one would work since working would earn you nothing (since the government would confiscate it all).
The trick is to find the "Goldilocks Zone" somewhere in the middle where taxes are low enough to induce people to work, but high enough so that the government gets a juicy share.
I think it worked out to somewhere around 30% tax rate as the optimum for maximized government revenue.
BUT -- why is that the goal? It's a progressive notion in the first place to increase the government. The Laffer Curve has the goal reversed: We should be trying to empower and enrich the INDIVIDUAL, not the COLLECTIVE.
To that end, taxes should always be lowered, EVEN IF IT DECREASED FEDERAL REVENUES.
Posted by: zombie at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (42M22)
271
Should have made the cuts retroactive for 2017. Would have made for big refund xhecks in April 2018...election year.
Posted by: #neverskankles at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (vwl+l)
Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at December 19, 2017 04:37 PM (G8LR7)
273
SHit; Unitlaic.
Posted by: zombie at December 19, 2017 04:37 PM (42M22)
274
#246 The high tax SALT states will be upside down on their very generous
state employee pensions immediately. Next under the gun will be freebies
for illegals which will fall even more under the "welfare" reform that
Trump wants next year.
======================
The long-awaited public sector unions + organized labor vs. amnesty and illegal border crossing confrontation is about to commence.
state employee pensions immediately. Next under the gun will be freebies
for illegals which will fall even more under the "welfare" reform that
Trump wants next year.
======================
The long-awaited public sector unions + organized labor vs. amnesty and illegal border crossing confrontation is about to commence.
Posted by: mrp at December 19, 2017 04:37 PM (Pqytn)
275
@ 209
On the economic front alone this is exactly why I am pessimistic in the short and mid-term for our country.
Damn... I hate saying that.
On the economic front alone this is exactly why I am pessimistic in the short and mid-term for our country.
Damn... I hate saying that.
Posted by: Anonymous 7 at December 19, 2017 04:37 PM (rKka5)
276
267
I think PDT needs to start thinking in terms of actual permanent cutting of the size and scope of government itself.
That will cause a revolt for sure. I approve. Please G-d.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (mbhDw)
From your keybaord to God's ear.
I think PDT needs to start thinking in terms of actual permanent cutting of the size and scope of government itself.
That will cause a revolt for sure. I approve. Please G-d.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (mbhDw)
From your keybaord to God's ear.
Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at December 19, 2017 04:37 PM (jxbfJ)
277
257 This ideathat Cal/NY/IL will rein in spending will only so so far as those who do not leave their state.
Their reply will be: go talk to the federal gov't. We're spending what we're spending.
This will be an issue and actually make people look at their state tax rates. This is good.
Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal at December 19, 2017 04:35 PM (bB4HN)
================
I seriously doubt it changes behavior until a critical mass of the upper middle class/lower upper class start moving out of state. What that critical mass is, I have no idea, but it probably will take years and maybe Illinois going bankrupt.
Their reply will be: go talk to the federal gov't. We're spending what we're spending.
This will be an issue and actually make people look at their state tax rates. This is good.
Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal at December 19, 2017 04:35 PM (bB4HN)
================
I seriously doubt it changes behavior until a critical mass of the upper middle class/lower upper class start moving out of state. What that critical mass is, I have no idea, but it probably will take years and maybe Illinois going bankrupt.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at December 19, 2017 04:37 PM (ELUpj)
278
"Federalism means encouraging more get done at the state and local level, and your tax code discourages that."
The Blue Hells can either get their spending in line with the rest of the country, or pay for it. You want to spend more, PAY MORE.
For fucks sake, you really think the high-tax zones are getting more done? They're not. They're paying higher pensions to government workers.
The Blue Hells can either get their spending in line with the rest of the country, or pay for it. You want to spend more, PAY MORE.
For fucks sake, you really think the high-tax zones are getting more done? They're not. They're paying higher pensions to government workers.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 19, 2017 04:37 PM (fXIMQ)
279
OK, Alex, as one of those people with a mortgage
and property taxes, let me explain:
Ultimately, I favor a flat tax, but people like me, in good faith, made the most important financial decision of our lives based in part--sometimes in very large part--on the tax deductions available to us. Transitioning to a flat tax requires a gradual phase out of deductions over a long period of time to prevent trapping taxpayers in a bait-and-switch world where deductions we had long counted upon suddenly vanish.
This bill ignores that necessity for a good many people, even if, on balance, i do support many other parts of it.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at December 19, 2017 04:27 PM (ujg0T)
As one of those people who understand how property tax and mortgage interest deductions work, even though I do not personally use them, I am fully aware of the impact on others. I am capable of empathy, all evidence to the contrary.
The current bill has state and local taxes deductible to $10,000 and mortgage interest deductible up to $750,000. That is, in fact, a step away, not a sudden change. I have no issue with the contrary being true - I want those deductions eliminated totally because I want all deductions eliminated but I am realistic enough to know that this would cause hardship on people and thus an incremental approach is better. That's a reasonable position.
We're back to the problem that everyone wants everyone else's ox to be gored. At some point you have to accept that your own ox will get it if you want change to happen otherwise it never will. It's the hysterical shrieking about how dare the Republicans make my taxes go up I am never supporting them again ever in the history of ever that I find childish.
Let me use me as an example. The loss of the student loan interest deduction will have a negative impact on me. Not a huge amount overall but the net difference is roughly a rent payment which is not an insignificant matter. I supported that elimination even before learning that the standard deduction will be doubled which should be a big positive for me. I supported it when it would cost me actual money because it's the right thing to do.
No, I don't think I'm a better person or anything for this, it's just that this whole don't you dare cut my goodies view was boring back when I was far less 29 than I am now.
and property taxes, let me explain:
Ultimately, I favor a flat tax, but people like me, in good faith, made the most important financial decision of our lives based in part--sometimes in very large part--on the tax deductions available to us. Transitioning to a flat tax requires a gradual phase out of deductions over a long period of time to prevent trapping taxpayers in a bait-and-switch world where deductions we had long counted upon suddenly vanish.
This bill ignores that necessity for a good many people, even if, on balance, i do support many other parts of it.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at December 19, 2017 04:27 PM (ujg0T)
As one of those people who understand how property tax and mortgage interest deductions work, even though I do not personally use them, I am fully aware of the impact on others. I am capable of empathy, all evidence to the contrary.
The current bill has state and local taxes deductible to $10,000 and mortgage interest deductible up to $750,000. That is, in fact, a step away, not a sudden change. I have no issue with the contrary being true - I want those deductions eliminated totally because I want all deductions eliminated but I am realistic enough to know that this would cause hardship on people and thus an incremental approach is better. That's a reasonable position.
We're back to the problem that everyone wants everyone else's ox to be gored. At some point you have to accept that your own ox will get it if you want change to happen otherwise it never will. It's the hysterical shrieking about how dare the Republicans make my taxes go up I am never supporting them again ever in the history of ever that I find childish.
Let me use me as an example. The loss of the student loan interest deduction will have a negative impact on me. Not a huge amount overall but the net difference is roughly a rent payment which is not an insignificant matter. I supported that elimination even before learning that the standard deduction will be doubled which should be a big positive for me. I supported it when it would cost me actual money because it's the right thing to do.
No, I don't think I'm a better person or anything for this, it's just that this whole don't you dare cut my goodies view was boring back when I was far less 29 than I am now.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:38 PM (mf5HN)
Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at December 19, 2017 04:38 PM (G8LR7)
281
I am enjoying the Democratic statements that preventing blue state from making state taxes deductible will hurt their economies. I wish someone would point out that they now agree that taxes hurt their economy.
Posted by: Downcast at December 19, 2017 04:38 PM (CFPgd)
282
What happened to the -do your taxes on the back of a post card- promises. Sounds like this tax reform is as convoluted as the last one and the one before that and so on and so on.
Posted by: Roc Ingersol at December 19, 2017 04:38 PM (qcrxS)
283
>>And Ryno has no idea how to speak. The criticism of the package as unpopular is, how you say, a lie. It is very popular with real people.
>>He needs tutoring by Sarah Sanders.
If you actually listened to his remarks they bear little resemblance to what is reported.
Funny that.
>>He needs tutoring by Sarah Sanders.
If you actually listened to his remarks they bear little resemblance to what is reported.
Funny that.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:38 PM (/tuJf)
284
Maybe blue state people should start taking more of an interest in state and local government.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at December 19, 2017 04:35 PM (3DZIZ)
States like Illinois just have overwhelmingly stupid populations. We've got a large FSA in Crook County, unions, affluent lefty north shore, and collar counties around Crook which used to be solid Republican are now light blue because the soccer moms who get their news from the View and People Magazine vote Dem because of social issues. Maybe if financial issues hit them right between the eyes it might wake up some people. But I think this state is screwed forever
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at December 19, 2017 04:35 PM (3DZIZ)
States like Illinois just have overwhelmingly stupid populations. We've got a large FSA in Crook County, unions, affluent lefty north shore, and collar counties around Crook which used to be solid Republican are now light blue because the soccer moms who get their news from the View and People Magazine vote Dem because of social issues. Maybe if financial issues hit them right between the eyes it might wake up some people. But I think this state is screwed forever
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 19, 2017 04:38 PM (493sH)
285
"Speaking of PW, it is a shame happyfeet doesn't stop by more often. He's a hoot."
No, he's a less coherent BSG.
No, he's a less coherent BSG.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 19, 2017 04:38 PM (fXIMQ)
286
alex, the empress of empathy...
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:38 PM (pL6Vz)
287
We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.
We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 19, 2017 04:38 PM (HlmRS)
288
Those SALT reductions encouraged and allowed blue states to be exactly the kind of lousy socialists that he claims to disapprove of. Moreover, people in those states will not stop voting for lousy socialists who pick their pocket at every opportunity so long as that pocket-picking is tax deductible
==========
So yeah, there's the rub. Its a bitter pill you have to swallow heal the country. They profligacy of the states and locals in the coastals is ridiculous and it gets underwritten by the rest of us. It needs to stop. If people are given an opportunity to vote for free stuff for themselves that other people have to pay for they will do it. Every. Time. You don't hear them crow about it. Until they lose the free stuff.
Then YOU HEAR ABOUT IT.
==========
So yeah, there's the rub. Its a bitter pill you have to swallow heal the country. They profligacy of the states and locals in the coastals is ridiculous and it gets underwritten by the rest of us. It needs to stop. If people are given an opportunity to vote for free stuff for themselves that other people have to pay for they will do it. Every. Time. You don't hear them crow about it. Until they lose the free stuff.
Then YOU HEAR ABOUT IT.
Posted by: simplemind at December 19, 2017 04:39 PM (C6xeQ)
289
And they're going to need that. The generic congressional ballot is like 50/39 against them.
according to 2014 and 2016 RCP generic congressional ballot polling, the GOP should be in the minority at this moment.
So, B fucking S
according to 2014 and 2016 RCP generic congressional ballot polling, the GOP should be in the minority at this moment.
So, B fucking S
Posted by: sofa saver at December 19, 2017 04:39 PM (4u7kU)
290
Nope they lied. It was December 15th. Also they are not processing applications and are fucking everything up. People have no idea if they are covered, they are being turned down and not approved so have nowhere to go.
My agent is convinced that the companies want single payer.
Think upon what was needed to railroad the first POS. Now think upon what would be needed to push through socialized medicine ( I refuse to use the BS term they use).
Trump will outmaneuver them. Killing the mandates off, hopefully followed by the ability to sell more freely. Just as there is no honor among thieve, so too one company will break ranks and go for the market. Then they're off to the races.
My agent is convinced that the companies want single payer.
Think upon what was needed to railroad the first POS. Now think upon what would be needed to push through socialized medicine ( I refuse to use the BS term they use).
Trump will outmaneuver them. Killing the mandates off, hopefully followed by the ability to sell more freely. Just as there is no honor among thieve, so too one company will break ranks and go for the market. Then they're off to the races.
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 19, 2017 04:39 PM (326rv)
291
Imagine never having to worry about making a profit again -- just a nice steady stream of revenue no matter how sucky your product is.
That's what waits for the *select few* fascist insurance corps when we go single payer.
Imagine never having to worry about making a profit again -- just a nice steady stream of revenue no matter how sucky your product is.
That's what waits for the *select few* fascist insurance corps when we go single payer.
Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at December 19, 2017 04:39 PM (G8LR7)
292
"Muh FEDERALISM" isn't a reason to reduce your federal taxes because you've chosen to pay for government corruption.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 19, 2017 04:16 PM (fXIMQ)
Moreover, I didn't choose shit. The state was changed out from under me by WSJ greedheads who wanted cheaper gardeners and maids.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 19, 2017 04:16 PM (fXIMQ)
Moreover, I didn't choose shit. The state was changed out from under me by WSJ greedheads who wanted cheaper gardeners and maids.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at December 19, 2017 04:39 PM (ujg0T)
293
285
Speaking of PW, it is a shame happyfeet doesn't stop by more often. He's a hoot."
No, he's a less coherent BSG.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 19, 2017 04:38 PM (fXIMQ)
Who is "PW"?
Speaking of PW, it is a shame happyfeet doesn't stop by more often. He's a hoot."
No, he's a less coherent BSG.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 19, 2017 04:38 PM (fXIMQ)
Who is "PW"?
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:40 PM (pL6Vz)
294
My theory on Trump's strategy is this:
He knows that elections are largely driven by two major factors: the economy and major wars.
He's finishing up our wars, so that won't count against him.
He's doing everything he can to rev up the economy (the regulation cutting is bigger in my mind than the tax cutting).
I see people saying "economic factors don't matter anymore", but they do. I saw an analysis of the 2016 election that said that the election fell in bounds of the economic indicators. It seems like every cycle is the one where economic factors don't matter anymore, but they always track very closely with election results.
I think he implicitly knows this and is working towards it.
He knows that elections are largely driven by two major factors: the economy and major wars.
He's finishing up our wars, so that won't count against him.
He's doing everything he can to rev up the economy (the regulation cutting is bigger in my mind than the tax cutting).
I see people saying "economic factors don't matter anymore", but they do. I saw an analysis of the 2016 election that said that the election fell in bounds of the economic indicators. It seems like every cycle is the one where economic factors don't matter anymore, but they always track very closely with election results.
I think he implicitly knows this and is working towards it.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at December 19, 2017 04:41 PM (ELUpj)
295
We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.
-------------
We have an education problem.
-------------
We have an education problem.
Posted by: B. D Jones at December 19, 2017 04:41 PM (KdDCu)
296
249 This would be a good time to go big with the Fair Tax.
Eliminate taxing income and change the system for the better.
Posted by: Jwest at December 19, 2017 04:34 PM (/roJx)
Its ALWAYS a good time to go big with the Fair Tax!
(High Fives...hey don't leave me hangin'......)
Eliminate taxing income and change the system for the better.
Posted by: Jwest at December 19, 2017 04:34 PM (/roJx)
Its ALWAYS a good time to go big with the Fair Tax!
(High Fives...hey don't leave me hangin'......)
Posted by: Minuteman at December 19, 2017 04:41 PM (A3b6q)
297
Somewhere a pikachu weeps.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at December 19, 2017 04:41 PM (3DZIZ)
298
Bush
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:01 PM (/tuJf)
Her music was... interesting.
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:02 PM (pL6Vz)
THEIR music.
https://youtu.be/5WPbqYoz9HA
Bush
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:01 PM (/tuJf)
Her music was... interesting.
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:02 PM (pL6Vz)
THEIR music.
https://youtu.be/5WPbqYoz9HA
Posted by: Hands at December 19, 2017 04:41 PM (EzdLW)
299
268 And apparently Nancy Pelosi trotted out phrase, "in this holy Season" we ought to think of the poor.
And it's okay for her to say that because she's a "devout" baby killing Catholic.
Posted by: tu3031 at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (O5Q3r)
--Fuck her and her self-righteous tripe.
And it's okay for her to say that because she's a "devout" baby killing Catholic.
Posted by: tu3031 at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (O5Q3r)
--Fuck her and her self-righteous tripe.
Posted by: logprof at December 19, 2017 04:41 PM (GsAUU)
300
>>>>I seriously doubt it changes behavior until a critical mass of the upper
middle class/lower upper class start moving out of state. What that
critical mass is, I have no idea, but it probably will take years and
maybe Illinois going bankrupt.
.
.
.That already happened in CT when they passed the *millionaire* tax. A year after it passed total State income tax revenue from them decreased because said millionaires started leaving the State.
middle class/lower upper class start moving out of state. What that
critical mass is, I have no idea, but it probably will take years and
maybe Illinois going bankrupt.
.
.
.That already happened in CT when they passed the *millionaire* tax. A year after it passed total State income tax revenue from them decreased because said millionaires started leaving the State.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at December 19, 2017 04:42 PM (+Dllb)
301
The House tax bill will have to be revoted on tomorrow due to some parliamentary issues with 3 provisions.
Posted by: Dr Spank at December 19, 2017 04:42 PM (4e+hS)
302
>>Trump will outmaneuver them. Killing the mandates off, hopefully followed by the ability to sell more freely. Just as there is no honor among thieve, so too one company will break ranks and go for the market. Then they're off to the races.
What is getting lost in all of this is the enormous power Obamacare delegated to HHS to design Obamacare mandatory coverage items and rules. And much like Trump has been doing with other regulations, what can be implemented with a pen and a phone can be wiped away with a pen and a phone.
I'm curious what HHS is going to do next.
What is getting lost in all of this is the enormous power Obamacare delegated to HHS to design Obamacare mandatory coverage items and rules. And much like Trump has been doing with other regulations, what can be implemented with a pen and a phone can be wiped away with a pen and a phone.
I'm curious what HHS is going to do next.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:42 PM (/tuJf)
Posted by: steevy at December 19, 2017 04:42 PM (LiyEm)
304
We have an education problem.
Posted by: B. D Jones at December 19, 2017 04:41 PM (KdDCu)
We have a desire to be honestly educated problem
We have an education problem.
Posted by: B. D Jones at December 19, 2017 04:41 PM (KdDCu)
We have a desire to be honestly educated problem
Posted by: sofa saver at December 19, 2017 04:42 PM (4u7kU)
305
PW=Protein Wisdom
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at December 19, 2017 04:42 PM (3DZIZ)
306
And they're going to need that. The generic congressional ballot is like 50/39 against them.
Among the multitude of useless polling data, the "generic congressional ballot" has to be among the most useless. Until and unless we start electing "generic congresspeople", that is.
We're not a parliamentary system, pollsters. You should have figured that out by now.
Among the multitude of useless polling data, the "generic congressional ballot" has to be among the most useless. Until and unless we start electing "generic congresspeople", that is.
We're not a parliamentary system, pollsters. You should have figured that out by now.
Posted by: DocJ at December 19, 2017 04:42 PM (NYS7S)
307
Here's a lovely age test.
When you see SALT what do you think it means?
Because I do not think state and local taxes, I think nukes.
When you see SALT what do you think it means?
Because I do not think state and local taxes, I think nukes.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (mf5HN)
308
281 I am enjoying the Democratic statements that preventing blue state from making state taxes deductible will hurt their economies. I wish someone would point out that they now agree that taxes hurt their economy.
Posted by: Downcast at December 19, 2017 04:38 PM (CFPgd)
==============
As soon as they acknowledge that taxing both things they don't like such as soda and other things like income have the same negative effect in the same breath.
Posted by: Downcast at December 19, 2017 04:38 PM (CFPgd)
==============
As soon as they acknowledge that taxing both things they don't like such as soda and other things like income have the same negative effect in the same breath.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (ELUpj)
309
254
Patterico says he'll never vote Republican again because this bill increases his tax burden because of the SALT reduction.
I'm not going to get a tax reduction either but my adult children will. While I pay no state income tax I do pay a significant amount of property tax. I would prefer younger and/or less affluent people get the break. But I'm not an asshole.
And continued from this morning: I found the puffery pastry in the grocery store! I have no clue what it will be made into though.
Patterico says he'll never vote Republican again because this bill increases his tax burden because of the SALT reduction.
I'm not going to get a tax reduction either but my adult children will. While I pay no state income tax I do pay a significant amount of property tax. I would prefer younger and/or less affluent people get the break. But I'm not an asshole.
And continued from this morning: I found the puffery pastry in the grocery store! I have no clue what it will be made into though.
Posted by: Lester at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (LfJIn)
310
President Bush's tax cuts and refusal to introduce TARP legislation is a significant slight against poor immigrants and will cause us to continue to lose 500 million jobs a day!
Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (SkuXa)
311
"don't you dare cut my goodies"
Those goodies being, the money that the gov't so generously lets me keep.
Those goodies being, the money that the gov't so generously lets me keep.
Posted by: Chris M at December 19, 2017 04:44 PM (eAZVt)
312
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (mf5HN)
Heh.
Heh.
Posted by: CDR M at December 19, 2017 04:44 PM (EkJOK)
313
Maybe if financial issues hit them right between the eyes it might wake up some people. But I think this state is screwed forever
Posted by: TheQuietMan
___________
That's sort of my hope as well.
it used to be white collar professionals were uniformly conservative Republican. Now it has completely flipped.
At the very least, making a tax more "obvious" is always a good thing. The state income tax/ property tax blending into the federal return was a green light to local governments easily raising taxes without much fuss.
Posted by: TheQuietMan
___________
That's sort of my hope as well.
it used to be white collar professionals were uniformly conservative Republican. Now it has completely flipped.
At the very least, making a tax more "obvious" is always a good thing. The state income tax/ property tax blending into the federal return was a green light to local governments easily raising taxes without much fuss.
Posted by: Maritime at December 19, 2017 04:44 PM (lKmt3)
314
Awesome. Our local FD has an antique fire truck they roll out for special occasions.
It just rolled by my house completely covered in Christmas lights with a Christmas tree mounted on top and the siren blaring.
I love my little town.
It just rolled by my house completely covered in Christmas lights with a Christmas tree mounted on top and the siren blaring.
I love my little town.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:45 PM (/tuJf)
315
Trump could change history with a bold move right now...
Get congress to establish a quasi-governmental institution that has the power to advance cash to the treasury on the perceived income from sales of assets over the next 100 years.
Then, Trump issues an executive order to place all excess U.S. assets into this new institution. That would include the vast majority of federal land, all the mineral rights, off shore mineral rights to a 200 mile limit, excess arts and treasures and other property that the Constitution never allowed the federal government to "own".
Trillions in assets.
With a number of trillions made available immediately through this new institution.
National debt eliminated. Infrastructure not only repaired, but brought into the 21 century. Social Security eliminated by buying out everyone at full value.
Easy as pie and all it takes is the stroke of a pen.
Get congress to establish a quasi-governmental institution that has the power to advance cash to the treasury on the perceived income from sales of assets over the next 100 years.
Then, Trump issues an executive order to place all excess U.S. assets into this new institution. That would include the vast majority of federal land, all the mineral rights, off shore mineral rights to a 200 mile limit, excess arts and treasures and other property that the Constitution never allowed the federal government to "own".
Trillions in assets.
With a number of trillions made available immediately through this new institution.
National debt eliminated. Infrastructure not only repaired, but brought into the 21 century. Social Security eliminated by buying out everyone at full value.
Easy as pie and all it takes is the stroke of a pen.
Posted by: Jwest at December 19, 2017 04:45 PM (/roJx)
316
I was told there would be no math involving numbers that will never be put into effect, nor remain in place even if they are longer than a couple of months.
Nice win, but meaningless in the end.
Nice win, but meaningless in the end.
Posted by: Sharkman at December 19, 2017 04:45 PM (BfOXk)
317
.They need to come to NE Texas. We have 3.2%
unemployment rate here and about 1.5 open jobs for every applicant. If
you want to work you can get a decent job in a day, and I ain't talking
about being the fryolater person at McDonald's.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (+Dllb)
Yeah, every business and store I drive by here in Indiana has a big "we're hiring" sign out front on the road, and they have since I got here over 2 months ago. This could end up being a peon uprising. I don't think it's gonna turn any red states blue.
unemployment rate here and about 1.5 open jobs for every applicant. If
you want to work you can get a decent job in a day, and I ain't talking
about being the fryolater person at McDonald's.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (+Dllb)
Yeah, every business and store I drive by here in Indiana has a big "we're hiring" sign out front on the road, and they have since I got here over 2 months ago. This could end up being a peon uprising. I don't think it's gonna turn any red states blue.
Posted by: Peaches at December 19, 2017 04:45 PM (14URa)
318
Bush
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:01 PM (/tuJf)
Her music was... interesting.
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:02 PM (pL6Vz)
THEIR music.
https://youtu.be/5WPbqYoz9HA
Posted by: Hands at December 19, 2017 04:41 PM (EzdLW)
--Or her.
Kate Bush sings a Christmas tune:
https://youtu.be/YmurdvXiswY
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:01 PM (/tuJf)
Her music was... interesting.
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:02 PM (pL6Vz)
THEIR music.
https://youtu.be/5WPbqYoz9HA
Posted by: Hands at December 19, 2017 04:41 PM (EzdLW)
--Or her.
Kate Bush sings a Christmas tune:
https://youtu.be/YmurdvXiswY
Posted by: logprof at December 19, 2017 04:45 PM (GsAUU)
319
OT: Local ISIS wannabe gets 28 years. He lived right behind my brother's firehouse.
https://tinyurl.com/y8o33qu9
https://tinyurl.com/y8o33qu9
Posted by: tu3031 at December 19, 2017 04:45 PM (O5Q3r)
320
255 Maybe blue state people should start taking more of an interest in state and local government.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at December 19, 2017 04:35 PM (3DZIZ)
How could we take care of all the people from every other country of the world if we limited our interest to state and local government?
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at December 19, 2017 04:35 PM (3DZIZ)
How could we take care of all the people from every other country of the world if we limited our interest to state and local government?
Posted by: Blue State People at December 19, 2017 04:45 PM (A3b6q)
321
And continued from this morning: I found the puffery pastry in the grocery store! I have no clue what it will be made into though.
Posted by: Lester at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM
baklava
Posted by: Lester at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM
baklava
Posted by: B. D Jones at December 19, 2017 04:45 PM (KdDCu)
322
And continued from this morning: I found the puffery pastry in the grocery store! I have no clue what it will be made into though.
Posted by: Lester at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (LfJIn)
Mommy has a very simple and delicious recipe for puff pastry shells.
Brown some almond slivers in butter. Add left over chicken, shredded, chicken gravy and poultry seasoning to taste. Let that simmer until heated through while the puff pastry shell cook.
Dump the chicken and gravy over the pastry shells. Defend your plate as others try to go "are you through with that" and eat yours.
Posted by: Lester at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (LfJIn)
Mommy has a very simple and delicious recipe for puff pastry shells.
Brown some almond slivers in butter. Add left over chicken, shredded, chicken gravy and poultry seasoning to taste. Let that simmer until heated through while the puff pastry shell cook.
Dump the chicken and gravy over the pastry shells. Defend your plate as others try to go "are you through with that" and eat yours.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:46 PM (mf5HN)
323
I see acronym SALT I think Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty
Posted by: Skip at December 19, 2017 04:46 PM (aC6Sd)
324
"If your >$750K mortgage deduction gets kneecapped along with your crazy CA state taxes, that's a real hit next year."
I live in an area with high real estate prices so 750+ is fairly common around here. However, I would never carry a mortgage that high so we lived in a very tiny house for a long time until we could save for a 30% down payment on our current house.
I live in an area with high real estate prices so 750+ is fairly common around here. However, I would never carry a mortgage that high so we lived in a very tiny house for a long time until we could save for a 30% down payment on our current house.
Posted by: Benji Carver at December 19, 2017 04:46 PM (OD2ni)
325
"Moreover, I didn't choose shit. The state was changed out from under me by WSJ greedheads who wanted cheaper gardeners and maids."
That sucks. I watched all the affordable land near me get bought up in speculation of fracking.
That sucks. I watched all the affordable land near me get bought up in speculation of fracking.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 19, 2017 04:46 PM (fXIMQ)
326
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (mf5HN)
I had to look it up to see what the acronym for taxes was because that was all I could think of. Nuke Treaty.
I had to look it up to see what the acronym for taxes was because that was all I could think of. Nuke Treaty.
Posted by: Roc Ingersol at December 19, 2017 04:46 PM (qcrxS)
327
Puff pastry.... spanakitopita.
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:47 PM (pL6Vz)
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 19, 2017 04:47 PM (39g3+)
329
"323 I see acronym SALT I think Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty
Posted by: Skip"
Reminds me of high school and my teachers complaining about Reagan being mean to the pesky Russkies.
Posted by: Skip"
Reminds me of high school and my teachers complaining about Reagan being mean to the pesky Russkies.
Posted by: Benji Carver at December 19, 2017 04:48 PM (OD2ni)
330
270 220 I wish the CBO would acknowledge that we are on the wrong side of the Laffer curve. Then they would reconcile with the promise of tax cuts.
Posted by: BourbonChicken /i]
Despite the propaganda by the Left in the '80s gettin' all hysterical about the Laffer Curve, it is actually a LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE economic theory. The goal of the Laffer Curve is to INCREASE government revenue. Which is what the Left actually wants. A true small-government conservative strived to DECREASE government revenue.
Laffer calculated -- and plotted on a graph -- what percentage levels of taxation would result in the MOST being collected by the government.
At one end of the scale, if the tax rate was 0%, then revenue would of course be zero.
At the other end of the scale, if the tax rate was 100% the revenue would also be zero or close to zero, because no one would work since working would earn you nothing (since the government would confiscate it all).
The trick is to find the "Goldilocks Zone" somewhere in the middle where taxes are low enough to induce people to work, but high enough so that the government gets a juicy share.
I think it worked out to somewhere around 30% tax rate as the optimum for maximized government revenue.
BUT -- why is that the goal? It's a progressive notion in the first place to increase the government. The Laffer Curve has the goal reversed: We should be trying to empower and enrich the INDIVIDUAL, not the COLLECTIVE.
To that end, taxes should always be lowered, EVEN IF IT DECREASED FEDERAL REVENUES.
Posted by: zombie at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (42M22)
Fun fact: back when tarriffs were the main source of Federal Government revenue, the argument was between a low "revenue maximizing" tariff and a high "protect local industries" tariff.
It's like they understood economics back then better than we do now.
Posted by: BourbonChicken /i]
Despite the propaganda by the Left in the '80s gettin' all hysterical about the Laffer Curve, it is actually a LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE economic theory. The goal of the Laffer Curve is to INCREASE government revenue. Which is what the Left actually wants. A true small-government conservative strived to DECREASE government revenue.
Laffer calculated -- and plotted on a graph -- what percentage levels of taxation would result in the MOST being collected by the government.
At one end of the scale, if the tax rate was 0%, then revenue would of course be zero.
At the other end of the scale, if the tax rate was 100% the revenue would also be zero or close to zero, because no one would work since working would earn you nothing (since the government would confiscate it all).
The trick is to find the "Goldilocks Zone" somewhere in the middle where taxes are low enough to induce people to work, but high enough so that the government gets a juicy share.
I think it worked out to somewhere around 30% tax rate as the optimum for maximized government revenue.
BUT -- why is that the goal? It's a progressive notion in the first place to increase the government. The Laffer Curve has the goal reversed: We should be trying to empower and enrich the INDIVIDUAL, not the COLLECTIVE.
To that end, taxes should always be lowered, EVEN IF IT DECREASED FEDERAL REVENUES.
Posted by: zombie at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (42M22)
Fun fact: back when tarriffs were the main source of Federal Government revenue, the argument was between a low "revenue maximizing" tariff and a high "protect local industries" tariff.
It's like they understood economics back then better than we do now.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at December 19, 2017 04:48 PM (ujg0T)
331
Remember that even in the high-tax blue states, most people will still be able to deduct their state taxes. The bill doesn't eliminate the state tax deduction. It just limits it to $10,000. In California, a single filer has to make about $140,000 to exceed that limit.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at December 19, 2017 04:48 PM (2lndx)
332
327 Puff pastry.... spanakitopita.
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:47 PM (pL6Vz)
Baklava is a vastly superior use of phyllo dough.
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:47 PM (pL6Vz)
Baklava is a vastly superior use of phyllo dough.
Posted by: Insomniac - Nobody in Particular at December 19, 2017 04:48 PM (NWiLs)
333
What is getting lost in all of this is the enormous power Obamacare delegated to HHS to design Obamacare mandatory coverage items and rules. And much like Trump has been doing with other regulations, what can be implemented with a pen and a phone can be wiped away with a pen and a phone.
I'm curious what HHS is going to do next.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:42 PM (/tuJf)
Put in place a regulation that says the only person required to pay an ass crushing insurance rate is Kathleen Sebelius.
I'm curious what HHS is going to do next.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 19, 2017 04:42 PM (/tuJf)
Put in place a regulation that says the only person required to pay an ass crushing insurance rate is Kathleen Sebelius.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 19, 2017 04:49 PM (4ErVI)
334
I see acronym SALT I think Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty
Yeah I think us oldsters are all in on that one.
Yeah I think us oldsters are all in on that one.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 19, 2017 04:49 PM (39g3+)
335
I checked the calculator and Mrs Old Blue and I will see about $3,104.00 in tax savings. Being retired, that's a goodly chunk of money for us.
Posted by: Old Blue at December 19, 2017 04:49 PM (gEvQ8)
336
Diplomad 2.0 recently moved from California to NC, couldn't take the taxes and regulations
Posted by: Skip at December 19, 2017 04:49 PM (aC6Sd)
337
307 Here's a lovely age test.
When you see SALT what do you think it means?
Because I do not think state and local taxes, I think nukes.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (mf5HN)
--Yeah, Gerald Ford and Carter.
When you see SALT what do you think it means?
Because I do not think state and local taxes, I think nukes.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (mf5HN)
--Yeah, Gerald Ford and Carter.
Posted by: logprof at December 19, 2017 04:49 PM (GsAUU)
338
. But I think this state is screwed forever
It'll take way longer than I have days above ground but it's not that easy to just pick up and go. Fvcking gangsters have this state in a head lock and ain't letting go.
It'll take way longer than I have days above ground but it's not that easy to just pick up and go. Fvcking gangsters have this state in a head lock and ain't letting go.
Posted by: dartist at December 19, 2017 04:49 PM (nisXv)
339
We need a tariff on pine nuts and figs...
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:49 PM (pL6Vz)
340
I had to look it up to see what the acronym for taxes was because that was all I could think of. Nuke Treaty.
Posted by: Roc Ingersol at December 19, 2017 04:46 PM (qcrxS)
Right? I was getting so confused. I mean,more so than usual. Which is a lot.
Posted by: Roc Ingersol at December 19, 2017 04:46 PM (qcrxS)
Right? I was getting so confused. I mean,more so than usual. Which is a lot.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:50 PM (mf5HN)
341
Posted by: Jwest at December 19, 2017 04:45 PM (/roJx)
Central Park was appraised at over 500 billion in 2006 IIRC. There is NYs solution to their money problems.
Central Park was appraised at over 500 billion in 2006 IIRC. There is NYs solution to their money problems.
Posted by: Roc Ingersol at December 19, 2017 04:50 PM (qcrxS)
342
Here's a lovely age test.
When you see SALT what do you think it means?
Because I do not think state and local taxes, I think nukes.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (mf5HN)
--Yeah, Gerald Ford and Carter.
Posted by: logprof
Yeah. I'm old.
When you see SALT what do you think it means?
Because I do not think state and local taxes, I think nukes.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (mf5HN)
--Yeah, Gerald Ford and Carter.
Posted by: logprof
Yeah. I'm old.
Posted by: rickb223 at December 19, 2017 04:50 PM (h6BP/)
343
"(achieved mostly by doubling the individual exemption)"
Not to pick nits, but it's the standard deduction that is doubling, not the personal exemption (which is eliminated under the new tax law).
Not to pick nits, but it's the standard deduction that is doubling, not the personal exemption (which is eliminated under the new tax law).
Posted by: CPA Nerd at December 19, 2017 04:50 PM (n9w2K)
344
332
327 Puff pastry.... spanakitopita.
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:47 PM (pL6Vz)
Baklava is a vastly superior use of phyllo dough.
Posted by: Insomniac - Nobody in Particular at December 19, 2017 04:48 PM (NWiLs)
Well sure.. if you are into honey and chopped pecans...
327 Puff pastry.... spanakitopita.
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:47 PM (pL6Vz)
Baklava is a vastly superior use of phyllo dough.
Posted by: Insomniac - Nobody in Particular at December 19, 2017 04:48 PM (NWiLs)
Well sure.. if you are into honey and chopped pecans...
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:51 PM (pL6Vz)
345
306 And they're going to need that. The generic congressional ballot is like 50/39 against them.
Among the multitude of useless polling data, the "generic congressional ballot" has to be among the most useless. Until and unless we start electing "generic congresspeople", that is.
We're not a parliamentary system, pollsters. You should have figured that out by now.
Posted by: DocJ at December 19, 2017 04:42 PM (NYS7S)
Yeah, its pretty useless. Its like lawyers. "All lawyers are bottom feeding scum suckers, EXCEPT mine." "Congress is full of a bunch of worthless incompetents screwing over the country to benefit themselves, EXCEPT my congressman."
Among the multitude of useless polling data, the "generic congressional ballot" has to be among the most useless. Until and unless we start electing "generic congresspeople", that is.
We're not a parliamentary system, pollsters. You should have figured that out by now.
Posted by: DocJ at December 19, 2017 04:42 PM (NYS7S)
Yeah, its pretty useless. Its like lawyers. "All lawyers are bottom feeding scum suckers, EXCEPT mine." "Congress is full of a bunch of worthless incompetents screwing over the country to benefit themselves, EXCEPT my congressman."
Posted by: buzzion at December 19, 2017 04:51 PM (lKs2v)
346
"And continued from this morning: I found the puffery pastry in the grocery store! I have no clue what it will be made into though.
Posted by: Lester"
Speaking of puff pastry, has anyone here ever made Beef Wellington? I love ordering it out and one of my co-workers said he makes it every Christmas. I was just wondering how hard it is since the last thing I would want is to ruin a whole filet. My cooking skills are intermediate.
Posted by: Lester"
Speaking of puff pastry, has anyone here ever made Beef Wellington? I love ordering it out and one of my co-workers said he makes it every Christmas. I was just wondering how hard it is since the last thing I would want is to ruin a whole filet. My cooking skills are intermediate.
Posted by: Benji Carver at December 19, 2017 04:51 PM (OD2ni)
347
299 268 And apparently Nancy Pelosi trotted out phrase, "in this holy Season" we ought to think of the poor.
And it's okay for her to say that because she's a "devout" baby killing Catholic.
Posted by: tu3031 at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (O5Q3r)
May I finish?
In this holy Season, we ought to think of the poor and their ability to pay for an abortion.
And it's okay for her to say that because she's a "devout" baby killing Catholic.
Posted by: tu3031 at December 19, 2017 04:36 PM (O5Q3r)
May I finish?
In this holy Season, we ought to think of the poor and their ability to pay for an abortion.
Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at December 19, 2017 04:51 PM (A3b6q)
348
"And apparently Nancy Pelosi trotted out phrase, "in this holy Season" we ought to think of the poor."
OK.
*thinks*
The poor pay no taxes now and receive lots of benefits I pay for.
After this passes they will pay no taxes passes and receive lots of benefits I pay for..
We really should do something about that.
Nancy Pelosi is a dolt.
.
OK.
*thinks*
The poor pay no taxes now and receive lots of benefits I pay for.
After this passes they will pay no taxes passes and receive lots of benefits I pay for..
We really should do something about that.
Nancy Pelosi is a dolt.
.
Posted by: Ripley at December 19, 2017 04:51 PM (MxEKc)
349
307 Here's a lovely age test.
When you see SALT what do you think it means?
Because I do not think state and local taxes, I think nukes.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (mf5HN)
I didn't even ask because I didn't want to appear incredibly stupid wondering why people were affected by the only thing SALT has ever meant to me. In fact, I am gobsmacked to find out differently. Now everybody knows I'm stoopid.
When you see SALT what do you think it means?
Because I do not think state and local taxes, I think nukes.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (mf5HN)
I didn't even ask because I didn't want to appear incredibly stupid wondering why people were affected by the only thing SALT has ever meant to me. In fact, I am gobsmacked to find out differently. Now everybody knows I'm stoopid.
Posted by: Peaches at December 19, 2017 04:51 PM (14URa)
350
All I know is if my taxes go down after this tax bill passes I must be rich, only rich people are going to get tax relief so say the Leftist representatives
Posted by: Skip at December 19, 2017 04:51 PM (aC6Sd)
351
342 Here's a lovely age test.
When you see SALT what do you think it means?
Because I do not think state and local taxes, I think nukes.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (mf5HN)
--Yeah, Gerald Ford and Carter.
Posted by: logprof
Yeah. I'm old.
Posted by: rickb223 at December 19, 2017 04:50 PM (h6BP/)
Same here. Some of us have been 29 longer than others I suppose.
When you see SALT what do you think it means?
Because I do not think state and local taxes, I think nukes.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (mf5HN)
--Yeah, Gerald Ford and Carter.
Posted by: logprof
Yeah. I'm old.
Posted by: rickb223 at December 19, 2017 04:50 PM (h6BP/)
Same here. Some of us have been 29 longer than others I suppose.
Posted by: Insomniac - Nobody in Particular at December 19, 2017 04:52 PM (NWiLs)
352
SALT is a new term, I had never seen it referred to taxes until maybe 3 months ago when it all of a sudden became a thing.
Posted by: #neverskankles at December 19, 2017 04:52 PM (4ugMC)
353
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at December 19, 2017 04:48 PM (2lndx)
The chicken Littles do not want to hear your lies!!!
The chicken Littles do not want to hear your lies!!!
Posted by: Roc Ingersol at December 19, 2017 04:52 PM (qcrxS)
354
SALT? Yeah, let's tax Russian nuke ICBMs. That actually sounds like a good plan.
Posted by: zombie at December 19, 2017 04:52 PM (42M22)
355
339 We need a tariff on pine nuts and figs...
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:49 PM (pL6Vz)
Not crunchy figs, please
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:49 PM (pL6Vz)
Not crunchy figs, please
Posted by: Apes in the Grotto at December 19, 2017 04:53 PM (GsAUU)
356
291
Imagine never having to worry about making a profit again -- just a nice steady stream of revenue no matter how sucky your product is.
That's what waits for the *select few* fascist insurance corps when we go single payer.
Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at December 19, 2017 04:39 PM (G8LR7)
The one covering Georgia fucking blows. My agent advised me to not get insurance for a year. He said he would,not sell a policy to his brother. I don't think many providers in the state even take this group.
Half the people I know have no idea if they are covered or have been flat out denied.
Republicans really dropped the ball. Repeal and replace was more important than the Tax Cuts. Both needed to be passed. But 2018 s shaping up to be a shit show in the health care industry.
Imagine never having to worry about making a profit again -- just a nice steady stream of revenue no matter how sucky your product is.
That's what waits for the *select few* fascist insurance corps when we go single payer.
Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at December 19, 2017 04:39 PM (G8LR7)
The one covering Georgia fucking blows. My agent advised me to not get insurance for a year. He said he would,not sell a policy to his brother. I don't think many providers in the state even take this group.
Half the people I know have no idea if they are covered or have been flat out denied.
Republicans really dropped the ball. Repeal and replace was more important than the Tax Cuts. Both needed to be passed. But 2018 s shaping up to be a shit show in the health care industry.
Posted by: Monk at December 19, 2017 04:53 PM (g4lFK)
357
I didn't even ask because I didn't want to appear incredibly stupid wondering why people were affected by the only thing SALT has ever meant to me. In fact, I am gobsmacked to find out differently. Now everybody knows I'm stoopid.
Posted by: Peaches at December 19, 2017 04:51 PM (14URa)
It's these youngsters with their hip jive that are the stupid ones. I kept seeing it and was very confused as to what a nuclear arms limitation treaty had to do with the tax code.
Oh hey Target has heated throws on sale for I think $25 if you haven't gotten one yet.
Posted by: Peaches at December 19, 2017 04:51 PM (14URa)
It's these youngsters with their hip jive that are the stupid ones. I kept seeing it and was very confused as to what a nuclear arms limitation treaty had to do with the tax code.
Oh hey Target has heated throws on sale for I think $25 if you haven't gotten one yet.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:53 PM (mf5HN)
358
SALT = Strategic Arms Limitation Treatiy = Yeesh, I*m old.
Posted by: Archer at December 19, 2017 04:53 PM (gbWkA)
359
>>>>
"Moreover, I didn't choose shit. The state was changed out from under me
by WSJ greedheads who wanted cheaper gardeners and maids."
That sucks. I watched all the affordable land near me get bought up in speculation of fracking.
.
.
.The wife and I took a $50,000 yearly income hit just to move away from CT 5 years ago and we have never regretted it. After the third "largest State tax increase in history" got passed we decided that we needed to get out no matter what.
We had to pay a special State *use* tax when we took the dogs to the groomer after the last epic tax hike passed when we lived there.
"Moreover, I didn't choose shit. The state was changed out from under me
by WSJ greedheads who wanted cheaper gardeners and maids."
That sucks. I watched all the affordable land near me get bought up in speculation of fracking.
.
.
.The wife and I took a $50,000 yearly income hit just to move away from CT 5 years ago and we have never regretted it. After the third "largest State tax increase in history" got passed we decided that we needed to get out no matter what.
We had to pay a special State *use* tax when we took the dogs to the groomer after the last epic tax hike passed when we lived there.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at December 19, 2017 04:53 PM (+Dllb)
360
I've been voting R in Illinois since '96, but Rob Crawford would blame me for helping elect Obama. As if states are all homogeneously blue or red. What about all the baby killers in your red state, Rob? Can I blame you for them?
Posted by: Chris M at December 19, 2017 04:54 PM (eAZVt)
361
The question has to be, if these cuts pass, will we be able to keep Guam from tipping over and sinking?
Posted by: Hank Johnson at December 19, 2017 04:54 PM (SkuXa)
362
High tax (read liberal) states send liberal delegations to Washington, push liberal policies, then withhold tax money because they vote for high taxes at the state level, too. This is high-tax states shifting the burden for their big government policies onto everybody else.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at December 19, 2017 04:54 PM (oVJmc)
363
Generic ballot is useful since it's a pretty good indication of what to expect. But it's not equal to Dems/Reps. Dems have a built in 5 lead on the generic ballot, due to the distribution of voters. So a 5 point lead for the Dems is basically a tie. Which means a 50/39 sin't an 11 point lead but more like a 6 point lead.
Posted by: #neverskankles at December 19, 2017 04:54 PM (4ugMC)
364
While we're at it, let's tax pepper too. And those little shakers of parmesan cheese. And Splenda and ketchup. We're going to be rich!
Posted by: zombie at December 19, 2017 04:54 PM (42M22)
365
SALT = Part of my salary as a member of the 12th Legion. Yeesh, I*m really, really old.
Posted by: Archer at December 19, 2017 04:55 PM (gbWkA)
366
Oh hey Target has heated throws on sale for I think $25 if you haven't gotten one yet.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:53 PM (mf5HN)
My dad got those for us at Christmas shortly before he passed away. Last thing I need is more cords to trip on or, now, more electrical usage. I'm loving my now-crappy, pilled up, half cat-hair fleece long underwear.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:53 PM (mf5HN)
My dad got those for us at Christmas shortly before he passed away. Last thing I need is more cords to trip on or, now, more electrical usage. I'm loving my now-crappy, pilled up, half cat-hair fleece long underwear.
Posted by: Peaches at December 19, 2017 04:55 PM (14URa)
367
Spanakitopita.
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:47 PM (pL6Vz)
You Kids and your endlessly inventive new names for beating off.
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:47 PM (pL6Vz)
You Kids and your endlessly inventive new names for beating off.
Posted by: Sharkman at December 19, 2017 04:55 PM (BfOXk)
368
357
Oh hey Target has heated throws on sale for I think $25 if you haven't gotten one yet.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:53 PM (mf5HN)
Can you warm rolls with them? I'm out of heating methods for Christmas dinner?
Oh hey Target has heated throws on sale for I think $25 if you haven't gotten one yet.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:53 PM (mf5HN)
Can you warm rolls with them? I'm out of heating methods for Christmas dinner?
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:55 PM (pL6Vz)
369
Not to pick nits, but it's the standard deduction
that is doubling, not the personal exemption (which is eliminated under
the new tax law).
Posted by: CPA Nerd at December 19, 2017 04:50 PM (n9w2K)
Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't the elimination of the personal exemption cancel out any increase in standard deductions for families larger than 2?
that is doubling, not the personal exemption (which is eliminated under
the new tax law).
Posted by: CPA Nerd at December 19, 2017 04:50 PM (n9w2K)
Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't the elimination of the personal exemption cancel out any increase in standard deductions for families larger than 2?
Posted by: redbanzai at December 19, 2017 04:55 PM (f5uaD)
370
358 SALT = Strategic Arms Limitation Treatiy = Yeesh, I*m old.
Posted by: Archer at December 19, 2017 04:53 PM (gbWkA)
You're not alone. I was thinking the same thing, just knew it couldn't be that from the context.
Posted by: Archer at December 19, 2017 04:53 PM (gbWkA)
You're not alone. I was thinking the same thing, just knew it couldn't be that from the context.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 19, 2017 04:56 PM (xJa6I)
371
Oh hey Target has heated throws on sale for I think $25 if you haven't gotten one yet.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:53 PM (mf5HN)
Keeps trannies toasty warm!
Oh hey Target has heated throws on sale for I think $25 if you haven't gotten one yet.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:53 PM (mf5HN)
Keeps trannies toasty warm!
Posted by: Insomniac - Nobody in Particular at December 19, 2017 04:56 PM (NWiLs)
372
spanakitopita.
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:47 PM (pL6Vz)
Baklava is a vastly superior use of phyllo dough.
Get better Feta cheese til it's a tie.
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:47 PM (pL6Vz)
Baklava is a vastly superior use of phyllo dough.
Get better Feta cheese til it's a tie.
Posted by: DaveA at December 19, 2017 04:56 PM (FhXTo)
373
" I've been voting R in Illinois since '96, but Rob Crawford would blame me for helping elect Obama. As if states are all homogeneously blue or red. What about all the baby killers in your red state, Rob? Can I blame you for them?"
What in the ever-living hell are you going on about?
Voting Republican in Illinois is like rooting for the Washington Generals.
What in the ever-living hell are you going on about?
Voting Republican in Illinois is like rooting for the Washington Generals.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 19, 2017 04:56 PM (fXIMQ)
374
Hey, did somebody say "SALT"? - Nancy Crater.
Posted by: Zombie Robbo the Llamabutcher at December 19, 2017 04:56 PM (GZUd8)
375
315 Trump could change history with a bold move right now...
Get congress to establish a quasi-governmental institution that has the power to advance cash to the treasury on the perceived income from sales of assets over the next 100 years.
Then, Trump issues an executive order to place all excess U.S. assets into this new institution. That would include the vast majority of federal land, all the mineral rights, off shore mineral rights to a 200 mile limit, excess arts and treasures and other property that the Constitution never allowed the federal government to "own".
Trillions in assets.
With a number of trillions made available immediately through this new institution.
National debt eliminated. Infrastructure not only repaired, but brought into the 21 century. Social Security eliminated by buying out everyone at full value.
Easy as pie and all it takes is the stroke of a pen.
Posted by: Jwest at December 19, 2017 04:45 PM (/roJx)
Hold on one second
Get congress to establish a quasi-governmental institution that has the power to advance cash to the treasury on the perceived income from sales of assets over the next 100 years.
Then, Trump issues an executive order to place all excess U.S. assets into this new institution. That would include the vast majority of federal land, all the mineral rights, off shore mineral rights to a 200 mile limit, excess arts and treasures and other property that the Constitution never allowed the federal government to "own".
Trillions in assets.
With a number of trillions made available immediately through this new institution.
National debt eliminated. Infrastructure not only repaired, but brought into the 21 century. Social Security eliminated by buying out everyone at full value.
Easy as pie and all it takes is the stroke of a pen.
Posted by: Jwest at December 19, 2017 04:45 PM (/roJx)
Hold on one second
Posted by: Hawaiian Judge at December 19, 2017 04:57 PM (A3b6q)
376
Yeah. I'm old.
Posted by: rickb223 at December 19, 2017 04:50 PM (h6BP/)
Same here. Some of us have been 29 longer than others I suppose.
Posted by: Insomniac
SALT & SALT II
Posted by: rickb223 at December 19, 2017 04:50 PM (h6BP/)
Same here. Some of us have been 29 longer than others I suppose.
Posted by: Insomniac
SALT & SALT II
Posted by: rickb223 at December 19, 2017 04:57 PM (h6BP/)
377
Nood Crooked Hillary!
Posted by: tu3031 at December 19, 2017 04:57 PM (O5Q3r)
378
I'm not entirely sure we can fund our whole government merely taxing that terrible Angelina Jolie super-spy movie. Hardly anybody watches it anymore.
Posted by: zombie at December 19, 2017 04:57 PM (42M22)
379
So, if corporate taxes (money corporations pay the government by increasing their prices to us) are going from 39% to 21%, can we expect to see visible (though probably minimal) decreases in prices at the retail counter?
Posted by: jwb7605 at December 19, 2017 04:58 PM (DofIg)
380
376
Yeah. I'm old.
Posted by: rickb223 at December 19, 2017 04:50 PM (h6BP/)
Same here. Some of us have been 29 longer than others I suppose.
Posted by: Insomniac
SALT & SALT II
Posted by: rickb223 at December 19, 2017 04:57 PM (h6BP/)
Didn't know Lot remarried....
Yeah. I'm old.
Posted by: rickb223 at December 19, 2017 04:50 PM (h6BP/)
Same here. Some of us have been 29 longer than others I suppose.
Posted by: Insomniac
SALT & SALT II
Posted by: rickb223 at December 19, 2017 04:57 PM (h6BP/)
Didn't know Lot remarried....
Posted by: kraken at December 19, 2017 04:58 PM (pL6Vz)
381
"Voting Republican in Illinois is like rooting for the Washington Generals."
So what should I do instead?
So what should I do instead?
Posted by: Chris M at December 19, 2017 04:58 PM (eAZVt)
382
I've never made Wellington but it looks pretty foolproof.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 19, 2017 04:58 PM (39g3+)
383
Uh no that federal land is actually state land they took with increasingly shady vigor.
There's absolutely no reason Utah and Nevada among other places should be required to hand over their land to some other federal body.
There's absolutely no reason Utah and Nevada among other places should be required to hand over their land to some other federal body.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 19, 2017 04:59 PM (4ErVI)
384
Trump could change history with a bold move right now...
Get congress to establish a quasi-governmental institution that has
the power to advance cash to the treasury on the perceived income from
sales of assets over the next 100 years.
Then, Trump issues an executive order to place all excess U.S.
assets into this new institution. That would include the vast majority
of federal land, all the mineral rights, off shore mineral rights to a
200 mile limit, excess arts and treasures and other property that the
Constitution never allowed the federal government to "own".
Trillions in assets.
With a number of trillions made available immediately through this new institution.
National debt eliminated. Infrastructure not only repaired, but
brought into the 21 century. Social Security eliminated by buying out
everyone at full value.
Easy as pie and all it takes is the stroke of a pen.
Posted by: Jwest at December 19, 2017 04:45 PM (/roJx)
It would be a gross understatement to say I think that is a bad idea.
Get congress to establish a quasi-governmental institution that has
the power to advance cash to the treasury on the perceived income from
sales of assets over the next 100 years.
Then, Trump issues an executive order to place all excess U.S.
assets into this new institution. That would include the vast majority
of federal land, all the mineral rights, off shore mineral rights to a
200 mile limit, excess arts and treasures and other property that the
Constitution never allowed the federal government to "own".
Trillions in assets.
With a number of trillions made available immediately through this new institution.
National debt eliminated. Infrastructure not only repaired, but
brought into the 21 century. Social Security eliminated by buying out
everyone at full value.
Easy as pie and all it takes is the stroke of a pen.
Posted by: Jwest at December 19, 2017 04:45 PM (/roJx)
It would be a gross understatement to say I think that is a bad idea.
Posted by: redbanzai at December 19, 2017 04:59 PM (f5uaD)
385
Nood? been called?
Posted by: USNtakim prfoundly deplorable! at December 19, 2017 04:59 PM (0OmEj)
386
Even if you live in a super lib state, there are always local elections that matter. Don't not vote.
Posted by: #neverskankles at December 19, 2017 05:00 PM (4ugMC)
387
Here's a lovely age test.
When you see SALT what do you think it means?
Because I do not think state and local taxes, I think nukes.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (mf5HN)
Now I feel like singing the All In The Family theme song. "Those were the days....."
Except that in the 1970's, they decidedly were NOT.
When you see SALT what do you think it means?
Because I do not think state and local taxes, I think nukes.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (mf5HN)
Now I feel like singing the All In The Family theme song. "Those were the days....."
Except that in the 1970's, they decidedly were NOT.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at December 19, 2017 05:00 PM (ujg0T)
388
When you see SALT what do you think it means?
Because I do not think state and local taxes, I think nukes.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (mf5HN)
I didn't even ask because I didn't want to appear incredibly stupid wondering why people were affected by the only thing SALT has ever meant to me. In fact, I am gobsmacked to find out differently. Now everybody knows I'm stoopid.
Posted by: Peaches
Huh. So SALT really does raise blood pressure after all...
Because I do not think state and local taxes, I think nukes.
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. With Santa hat. Hopping all around. at December 19, 2017 04:43 PM (mf5HN)
I didn't even ask because I didn't want to appear incredibly stupid wondering why people were affected by the only thing SALT has ever meant to me. In fact, I am gobsmacked to find out differently. Now everybody knows I'm stoopid.
Posted by: Peaches
Huh. So SALT really does raise blood pressure after all...
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Abbot of St. Costello-on-the-Hurlingbone at December 19, 2017 05:01 PM (AM1GF)
389
nood
nood
Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at December 19, 2017 05:01 PM (G8LR7)
390
I'd rather not look back.
Posted by: Lot at December 19, 2017 05:01 PM (vPD1C)
391
Yeah, SALT makes me wonder why Brezhnev is interested in the tax bill.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at December 19, 2017 05:02 PM (3DZIZ)
392
"Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't the elimination of the personal exemption cancel out any increase in standard deductions for families larger than 2?"
Yes, because 3 makes it about a wash.
I just didn't want any 'rons or 'ronettes with a shitload of kids going out and buying that new boat tomorrow based upon reading that.
Yes, because 3 makes it about a wash.
I just didn't want any 'rons or 'ronettes with a shitload of kids going out and buying that new boat tomorrow based upon reading that.
Posted by: CPA Nerd at December 19, 2017 05:03 PM (n9w2K)
393
SALT I, SALT II, and START.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at December 19, 2017 05:03 PM (3DZIZ)
394
SALT talks. Gawd I'm old.
Posted by: Infidel at December 19, 2017 05:03 PM (EGFUD)
395
can we expect to see visible (though probably minimal) decreases in prices at the retail counter?
Probably not right away, but I think if the economy continues to grow, we'll see those reduced portion downsizes in the Obama years to reverse. Those 6 ounce cans will go back to 8 ounces, etc. Without a price increase.
Also, wages should go up, as businesses expand, hire, and prosper. Which effectively makes prices lower for you.
Probably not right away, but I think if the economy continues to grow, we'll see those reduced portion downsizes in the Obama years to reverse. Those 6 ounce cans will go back to 8 ounces, etc. Without a price increase.
Also, wages should go up, as businesses expand, hire, and prosper. Which effectively makes prices lower for you.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 19, 2017 05:04 PM (39g3+)
396
>>>When you see SALT what do you think it means?<<<
Come to Helsinki, - we supply the best hookers and golden showers in Europe.
Come to Helsinki, - we supply the best hookers and golden showers in Europe.
Posted by: Leonid Brezhnev at December 19, 2017 05:04 PM (A1FgP)
397
So, if corporate taxes (money corporations pay the government by increasing their prices to us) are going from 39% to 21%, can we expect to see visible (though probably minimal) decreases in prices at the retail counter?
Yes, and/or increased wages, and/or more stable jobs, and/or more jobs.
Yes, and/or increased wages, and/or more stable jobs, and/or more jobs.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at December 19, 2017 05:06 PM (2lndx)
Posted by: Cicero Boom chicka boom Kaboom! Kid at December 19, 2017 05:07 PM (/tq0+)
399
It would be a gross understatement to say I think that is a bad idea.
Posted by: redbanzai at December 19, 2017 04:59 PM (f5uaD)
Why?
Posted by: redbanzai at December 19, 2017 04:59 PM (f5uaD)
Why?
Posted by: Jwest at December 19, 2017 05:08 PM (/roJx)
400
#43 "...but you really need to think it through, please."
Your parents never had the "Santa talk" with you did they, Curmudgeon?
Your parents never had the "Santa talk" with you did they, Curmudgeon?
Posted by: Ray Van Dune at December 19, 2017 05:15 PM (yu616)
401
The House tax bill will have to be revoted on tomorrow due to some parliamentary issues with 3 provisions.
I don't see Bryd Rule violations in the issues. I do see extreme left-tards with their panties in a wad over a tax break for home schooling.
The GOPe folds without a fight as usual.
I don't see Bryd Rule violations in the issues. I do see extreme left-tards with their panties in a wad over a tax break for home schooling.
The GOPe folds without a fight as usual.
Posted by: Neil deGrasse Tyson's rape victims at December 19, 2017 05:45 PM (1L9V9)
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