Saturday Gardening Thread: Trying to play it cool [KT]

Near the end of June, Lurker Nancy sent in the photo above, with this note:

Here are some cactus blooms in my garden this morning. I got this as a cutting from an elderly neighbor in Tucson so I don't have a name for it, but we brought it with us to Peoria, AZ and it is doing quite well in its new place.

Last week in the comments, Don posted a link to his photos from a cactus show in Kansas. They mostly featured plant and spine form rather than flowers. Fascinating. Take a look around.

Here's an interesting summary if you are more into cactus flowers.

We will also have more on cactus and other desert plants later. It's monsoon season in the desert southwest.

Cucumber Nookie Review

Like tomatoes, cucumbers can be much, much better if you grow your own than if you buy them. Last week in the comments, Skip noted that his cucumber plants had lots of flowers, but not much growing from them. This started an interesting discussion on cucumber nookie. This is a more complex gardening issue than many people might imagine. Though other things (plant health, heat, irregular watering, etc) can also affect cucumber yield. Below, the three main categories of cucumbers (as far as sex is concerned) are discussed, along with some ideas for getting more quality cukes from the garden.

DIY Cucumber Nookie (SFW)

Here's an Executive Gardener who loves pickles. He has started a pickle garden in two pots. Unfortunately, there weren't a lot of bees in his Houston neighborhood in 20015 to pollinate his cucumbers. As he points out, the first step in pollinating standard cucumbers is recognizing the difference between girl cucumber flowers and boy cucumber flowers.

If you try hand-pollinating cucumbers at home, you may get better results if you pollinate the girl flowers with pollen of boy flowers from a different plant. Or get pollen from several boy flowers (from different plants) on your brush before pollinating the girl flowers.

Many standard cucumber varieties produce mostly male flowers early in the season. You may get better results if you plant more than one variety. You can choose a gynoecious variety as one of them if you want lots of cukes. Some members of The Horde are already familiar with this type of cucumber.

A fully gynoecious variety produces only female flowers and needs male flowers from another cucumber variety for pollination (unless it is also parthenocarpic). No, melon flowers won't work. Gynoecious cucumbers are kind of like the Amazons of the cucumber world. You need to import a few males in order to get the next generation. Well, your next generation of cucumber seeds, anyway.

Story about women from a gynoecious culture

If you buy seeds for gynoecious cucumbers, they often include a few seeds of a pollinator variety that will make both male and female flowers. For home gardeners, it is handy if the seeds of the pollinator variety are dyed a bright color so you can make sure that you plant at least one of them.

Cucumbers that Don't Need No Nookie

Monika is an open-pollinated cucumber that needs no pollination to produce fruit. It does need pollination to produce seeds, however. So fruits that get pollinated will develop seeds while unpollinated fruits will have only wispy seed coats where the seeds should be.

But most parthenocarpic cucumbers are hybrids. There's a pretty thorough summary about cucumbers, from Haifa. They know something about greenhouse cucumbers there:

There are also cucumber hybrids that produce fruits without pollination. These varieties are called parthenocarpic varieties, resulting in fruits that are called 'seedless', although the fruit often contain soft, white seed coats. Such parthenocarpic fruit set also occurs naturally under the low-light, cool-night growing conditions, and short days of fall. Older plants can also produce 'super' ovaries which set fruit parthenocarpically.

Parthenocarpic varieties need to be isolated from standard varieties to prevent cross-pollination and development of fruits that do contain seeds, and may be deformed by greater growth in the pollinated area. Greenhouse cucumbers are naturally parthenocarpic.

English Cucumber

It is true that fruit quality of some parthenocarpic varieties is dramatically reduced if they are pollinated. Particularly some of the greenhouse varieties. But some parthenocarpic varieties will produce quality fruits even if pollinated. Check if you will be growing this type of cucumber outdoors.

Cockroaches that really, really don't need no nookie

Have you ever seen a cockroach in your garden? I have seen cockroaches in a poorly-constructed compost pile, but they can also seek moisture from indoor plants. Consider that a tip for bait placement. But, of course, cockroaches do not need houseplants to be a problem indoors. They are tough critters. And now we learn this: Female American cockroaches can produce young without males.

In a few types of cockroaches, parthenogenesis is the main method of reproduction, but for common types like the American and German cockroaches, scientists view it as a last-ditch option when males aren’t around.
Now a team at Japan’s Hokkaido University says that parthenogenesis is more viable than scientists have thought for the reddish-brown American cockroach Periplaneta americana, a world-wide pest.

American Cockroach
The team, led by entomologist Hiroshi Nishino, says the females get especially busy when they are living together in groups of three to five, perhaps because the females sense that their offspring will be safer with other cockroaches around. After producing their first egg case, containing around 16 embryos, the females in groups took just 18 days on average to produce another case, compared to 27 days for females living alone.

I find the idea of female cockroach communes to be sort of disheartening. As noted above, parthenocarpic cucumbers cannot produce seeds without a male. Reproductive advantage: cockroaches.

Garden of The Horde

Here in the San Joaquin Valley we are getting some smoke from fires to our east and our northwest. It has been really hot, with a fair amount of humidity for this area. Fortunately, one of the fires near CaliGirl is winding down, and one is out. Yay!. She has harvested her first tomatoes. Mixed heirlooms and some cherry tomatoes. Note the variety map.

This is why she needs a variety map:

She gets help with some crops. Part of her garden is on, you know, a farm. Here are onions and melons that were started this spring in a greenhouse.

If you would like to send information and/or photos for the Saturday Gardening Thread, the address is:

ktinthegarden
at g mail dot com

Include your nic unless you want to be a lurker like Nancy.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 12:35 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 If it rains, the grass grows and I have to mow the lawn.
If it doesn't rain, the grass struggles, and I have to water.
If I have to water, the grass grows and I have to mow the lawn.

Sigh.

Posted by: shibumi at July 22, 2017 12:26 PM (aT+Bx)

2 Hi, Shibumi. Maybe you should move to the desert. Grow some cactus, like Nancy. Beautiful, isn't it?

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 12:28 PM (BVQ+1)

3 Between all the rain last week and all the heat this week my tomatoes are all splitting on the vine.

Harvested them all including the the green ones which I will let ripen inside. What I can salvage from the split ones are to become salsa.

Posted by: Big V at July 22, 2017 12:35 PM (qnAGA)

4 Yes, the cactus is beautful. I was going to make a note of that. However, I detest the hot weather, so really, "Alaska" is probably a better no lawn option for me.

Where is everyone? I screamed NOOD on the last thread.

Posted by: shibumi at July 22, 2017 12:36 PM (aT+Bx)

5 My little tailless cat found a big, fat cockroach in my apartment last week. I was hoping he would kill it, but he just pawed at it like a it was toy. Had to squish the bug myself.

Posted by: Aunt Luna at July 22, 2017 12:37 PM (Zd2ZF)

6 Shibumi, if the weather elsewhere is anywhere like it is here, they are melting.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 12:38 PM (BVQ+1)

7 Gorgeous pics!!

I have been harvesting squash, but the heat is making new growth a bit slow. Tomatoes are just now flowering, since they got a late start with the cold spring.

My dad grew cucumbers, among other things, and they were prolific. To the tune of 700 quarts of pickles. Which were horrid. Bless my precious mom, she was trying, and that was one experiment that failed miserably.

Posted by: moki at July 22, 2017 12:38 PM (V+V48)

8 The spoon detail in the lower cactus photo is interesting. Don't see that kind of thing much in English gardens.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 12:39 PM (BVQ+1)

9
Mrs. Krebs is into cacti. I am most definitely not. That is all.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at July 22, 2017 12:39 PM (pNxlR)

10 Also, I was a little anxious when I saw the words "Cucumber Nookie Review."

Posted by: Aunt Luna at July 22, 2017 12:40 PM (Zd2ZF)

11 Another deluge last night.

What has survived what has turned out to be the wettest growing season I have ever seen are about half-sized plants.

My cucumbers are wearing swimsuits today.

Posted by: Cicero Boom chicka boom Kaboom! Kid at July 22, 2017 12:45 PM (yKB8T)

12 Love those cactus flower photos. Such brilliant colors and delicate blossoms from these hard scrabble plants is amazing.

Posted by: JTB at July 22, 2017 12:50 PM (V+03K)

13 OK, I was alerted to this site by a friend, got here, dug into the gardening thread and started looking around at other posts ... now I'm a bit lost.
Where the hell is the dictionary of acronyms for this site?!
I wanna know what SWOH is.
I'm loving the hilarious nicknames; Donnie TwoScoops still has me laughing!
Thank you!!

Posted by: JustGotHere at July 22, 2017 12:55 PM (NG5TO)

14 moki at July 22, 2017 12:38 PM

Sorry about your Mom's pickles. My Mom's pickles were mostly great. Some of the old-fashioned pickles are a real challenge to make. I prefer the mush simpler refrigerator pickles, even if they don't last as long.

Love them with fresh, almost-ripe dill seed heads added to the brine.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 12:56 PM (BVQ+1)

15 The spinach is done for the summer. These daily temps in the high 90s shortened their season but it was delicious for a month. We're going to try a fall planting after this damn heat and humidity is done for the year.

Posted by: JTB at July 22, 2017 12:57 PM (V+03K)

16 JTB at July 22, 2017 12:50 PM

I am amazed by the delicacy of cactus flowers, too.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 12:58 PM (BVQ+1)

17 JustGotHere at July 22, 2017 12:55 PM

Folks on the Garden Thread may not know all the acronyms, either. Might want to try one of the open threads.

Heh.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 12:59 PM (BVQ+1)

18 My raspberries have had an awful year. Small berries, not many at all.

I think it was too hot too fast here, and when there was rain, it was too much and over a brief period of time.

Right now, I wouldn't mind some rain, but it missed my area, so I'm probably going to have to water soon. My shrubs are getting stressed.

Posted by: shibumi at July 22, 2017 01:01 PM (aT+Bx)

19 what SWOH is.

JustGotHere at July 22, 2017 12:55 PM

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 12:59 PM (BVQ+1)

If you're talking about the front page sidebar, I'll guess SW Ohio.

Posted by: dDan at July 22, 2017 01:01 PM (hwYmz)

20 Most of the leaf lettuce will get used over the next week or so. What we can't use in salads Mrs. JTB can use in her wilted lettuce dish, which I love. It uses the same basic dressing as her German potato salad which should qualify as its own food group. Like the spinach, we'll try a fall planting.

Posted by: JTB at July 22, 2017 01:03 PM (V+03K)

21 Thank you, Ddan!
I hate asking what appear to be stupid questions, but when I don't know something, I ask. :-/

Posted by: JustGotHere at July 22, 2017 01:03 PM (NG5TO)

22
Love them with fresh, almost-ripe dill seed heads added to the brine.
Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 12:56 PM (BVQ+1)

In Warsaw, you could go to the outdoor markets, and most of the produce stands had a giant crock or barrel full of pickles-lovely, crunchy, dill/sour pickles. The stand owners would give you a glass of pickle juice to drink, if they knew you well. First timers didn't get this particular treat.

My dad's parents were Russian, and he used to drink pickle juice too. I guess it's an Eastern European thing.

Posted by: moki at July 22, 2017 01:04 PM (V+V48)

23 20 Most of the leaf lettuce will get used over the next week or so. What we can't use in salads Mrs. JTB can use in her wilted lettuce dish, which I love. It uses the same basic dressing as her German potato salad which should qualify as its own food group. Like the spinach, we'll try a fall planting.
Posted by: JTB at July 22, 2017 01:03 PM (V+03K)

What can we do to persuade Mrs. JTB to part with that recipe-it sounds delicious! If she didn't submit it to the cookbook, of course!

Posted by: moki at July 22, 2017 01:05 PM (V+V48)

24 Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at July 22, 2017 12:39 PM

"Mrs. Krebs is into cacti".

Uh-oh. Could be a warning sign. Cacti can use Crassulacean Acid Metabolism in place of the Krebs Cycle under arid conditions.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 01:07 PM (BVQ+1)

25 Hi, y'all! It's been forever since I had time to hang out in this thread. Not that there'll be much hanging out; I'm supposed to be getting the house ready for company. Eh, they won't mind the dust rhinos too much.

Has anyone else noticed a curious garden phenomenon, in which all the normal plants- peppers, tomatoes, cucumbers, etc- are fairly mediocre, and all the weird plants- dill, nasturtiums, PA Dutch crookneck squash, strange varieties of beans and carrots, etc- are growing like gangbusters? I'd say it's the crazy weather we've been having, but my garden did this last year, too. And I live in southern New England; it's not exactly a hostile climate.

I guess it doesn't matter, per se. I'll eat whatever doesn't run faster than me, and most things in the garden aren't overly mobile. But it is a bit interesting.

Posted by: right wing yankee at July 22, 2017 01:08 PM (26lkV)

26 Cursed be the ground for our sake. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for us. For out of the ground we were taken, for the dust we are...and to the dust we shall return.

Posted by: Insomniac, Professional Nobody at July 22, 2017 01:10 PM (0mRoj)

27 My raspberries have had an awful year. Small berries, not many at all.

Posted by: shibumi at July 22, 2017 01:01 PM (aT+Bx)

Oh, good, it's not just me. My raspberries look terrible. Maybe they don't like being mulched. Which I wouldn't have to do if the goldenrod stayed away.

Posted by: right wing yankee at July 22, 2017 01:10 PM (26lkV)

28 Cicero Boom chicka boom Kaboom! Kid at July 22, 2017 12:45 PM

Sorry. Bet there are some folks who wish they could share that rain with you. We would take some on the fires, but we just got through some flooding from mountain run off nearby.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 01:11 PM (BVQ+1)

29 dDan at July 22, 2017 01:01 PM

Thanks!

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 01:12 PM (BVQ+1)

30 If you get a chance to look through Don's cactus photos, you might also want to take a crack at a positive ID for this milkweed species:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tancos/35636133472/

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 01:16 PM (BVQ+1)

31 Posted by: JustGotHere at July 22, 2017 01:03 PM (NG5TO)

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 01:12 PM (BVQ+1)

You're welcome, and I hope I'm right.

Posted by: dDan at July 22, 2017 01:17 PM (hwYmz)

32 I still get surprised at what a difference garden fresh stuff can make. I splurged on a beautiful piece of wild salmon, simply sautéed in butter so the center was just barely cooked. While still hot I sprinkled finely chopped dill on it and served the salmon on a bed of rice seasoned with tarragon. The herbs had been in the garden a few minutes before. Delish! Even 'fresh' herbs from the store can't come close to the vibrant taste.

An experience like this is why vegetable gardening is worth the effort.

Posted by: JTB at July 22, 2017 01:19 PM (V+03K)

33 JTB at July 22, 2017 01:03 PM

Most people don't do a lot of wilted lettuce, but it's good for leaves that are a little larger.

Someday, maybe you can repeat the recipe for the dressing for us.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 01:19 PM (BVQ+1)

34 23 ... Hi moki, She did submit the German Potato salad recipe to the cookbook. If it doesn't get used she will be glad to use it here and on the cooking thread.

Posted by: JTB at July 22, 2017 01:21 PM (V+03K)

35 right wing yankee at July 22, 2017 01:08 PM

Interesting. Maybe it's time to try a little crop rotation. Or some new varieties of old standard veggies.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 01:23 PM (BVQ+1)

36 Picked the first 2 LaRoma tomatoes and I cuke this week. My wife likes these over regular Romas as they usually are larger, these weren't.

The above discussion tells me why I have one one cuke ffrom 2 plants, I blame it on the inconsistent watering. By the time I get home on these hot days the cuke plants are already wilting. Will try to remember to water in the morn before I leave.

Posted by: Farmer at July 22, 2017 01:24 PM (lfXAE)

37 I've picked maybe a dozen tomatoes so far, mostly from the tangerine hybrid plants, but a few celebrities. Had to pull up a tomato plant, though, because it had some kind of ick and I didn't want it to spread to the rest of the tomatoes.

Posted by: huerfano at July 22, 2017 01:26 PM (TO4Og)

38 Had to pull up a tomato plant, though, because it had some kind of ick and I didn't want it to spread to the rest of the tomatoes.
Posted by: huerfano at July 22, 2017 01:26

It might help to make sure no leaves are touching soil. In the past I've grown tomatoes without staking them w/ no problem, but lately it seems like any leaves touching the soil get the crud. So I pick them off if I can't keep them off the ground.

Posted by: Farmer at July 22, 2017 01:30 PM (lfXAE)

39 Farmer at July 22, 2017 01:24 PM

I grew La Roma one year. Can't say I remember what it was like, though.

Cucumbers really don't like heat. Here, some people grow them in part shade. I have to choose a heat-tolerant type like Summer Dance and grow it on a trellis. And water it regularly.

Armenian cucumbers and a few related types are actually melons. They do much better in heat and are not as picky about watering.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 01:31 PM (BVQ+1)

40 nice that the fires by CaliGirl are winding down. What an organized garden she has ... I've heard of people like that.

Her watermelon looks like what I have, dark green and round, some sort of "super sweet" iirc.

We had a week in the 90s but still OK in the shade with a breeze, if one is just sitting with a drink. But out in the sun pulling weeds ... nope.

I've had the pollination problem with my cantaloupe for some reason. All one variety, but there should be maybe 200, but I only found one. I used a little q-tip and acted like a bee for ten minutes last week, so will see if I got any new fruit. Still a lot of flowers. The watermelons next to them seem fine, but I hear cantaloupe freezes better. They say to eat the watermelon like popsicles or they become less pleasant when thawed.

Japanese beetles have finally slowed down, but many people lost most of their leaves off some fruit trees or some ornamentals. I see some brown spots and skeletonized leaves on some sycamores even, but not major defoliation. They say we didn't get a cold enough winter to kill most of them.

all good .. thanks for the garden thread KT. always enjoy your wide-ranging expertise. cheers

Posted by: illiniwek at July 22, 2017 01:33 PM (HQuBO)

41 My 19 month old niece loves picking blackberries. According to my sister it took her about a day to understand that she's only supposed to pick the dark ones. Smart girl. She's probably not berry-picking today, though. It's hotter than Satan's armpits.

Posted by: Aunt Luna at July 22, 2017 01:35 PM (Zd2ZF)

42 There's some type of rare lizard that can reproduce without males at a State Park here in Colorado. The ranger calls them "feminist lizards."

Posted by: Emmie at July 22, 2017 01:40 PM (ZapPq)

43 Interesting. Maybe it's time to try a little crop rotation. Or some new varieties of old standard veggies.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 01:23 PM (BVQ+1)
I think you're right on trying new varieties. Because I do rotate what gets planted where. And it's not like the plants are diseased; they just fail to thrive. It's probably a matter of finding which of the zillion varieties does best in my microclimate. Good thing I like experimental plantings.

Posted by: right wing yankee at July 22, 2017 01:43 PM (26lkV)

44 I wanna know what SWOH is.
I'm loving the hilarious nicknames; Donnie TwoScoops still has me laughing!
Thank you!!
Posted by: JustGotHere at July 22, 2017 12:55 PM (NG5TO)

------------

A lot of posters have gained significant insight by looking up unknown terms in the Urban Dictionary.

Posted by: fixerupper at July 22, 2017 01:44 PM (vIjh1)

45 My cucumbers (Persian, pickling and Japanese) are all doing well this year but I have no idea why. Getting loads of tomatoes which are my favorite. The Mortgage Lifter is amazing--things get big and are very tasty especially good for tomato and mayo sandwiches. This variety called Super Fantastic is not as big but a delicious sweet one with lovely texture. Pink Berkeley Tie Dye not nearly as prolific as last year but still tasty.

The figs are coming in and I am picking them daily so we don't get the fig beetle (EEEWWW!) infestation like we did last year.

Something is mowing down the leaves on all my peppers and unfortunately I think it's a grasshopper. I have to go out and get that stuff that kills them this week.

Luckily all those Cal wildfires are not near us in So Cal and it's been a really nice July so far!

Posted by: keena at July 22, 2017 01:45 PM (RiTnx)

46 huerfano at July 22, 2017 01:26 PM

If I remember right, "Tangerine" tomato is open pollinated and Burpee's "Sweet Tangerine" is a hybrid. One of my favorites.

Best to pull up a plant with serious ick, for sure.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 01:45 PM (BVQ+1)

47 Also that is a truly lovely cactus flower. I'd love to know what the name is if anyone knows it.

Posted by: keena at July 22, 2017 01:45 PM (RiTnx)

48 Right Wing Yankee, don't know if this is relevant, but so-called "easy" crops often won't grow for me.

Like radishes.

What is up with that?

Posted by: Emmie at July 22, 2017 01:46 PM (ZapPq)

49 I sometimes us WCIL for west central Illinois, so I'm guessing that is SW Ohio.

Posted by: illiniwek at July 22, 2017 01:47 PM (HQuBO)

50 Tomatoes, cukes, strawberries, dill, squash have all done well for us this year. We must have have Mexican rabbits here because they are just demolishing the peppers and leaving everything else alone.

Posted by: fixerupper at July 22, 2017 01:48 PM (vIjh1)

51 I'm working out of town on Tuesday and the wife calls. "Can you ask your garden thread friends what to do about Japanese Beetles? They're eating all of the basil!" So far her solution has been squirting them with soapy water, and letting the carcasses fall into a pan of water pour encourages les autres.

Posted by: Gordon at July 22, 2017 01:50 PM (NYYoR)

52 The neighbor's chickens have been helping to reduce the grasshopper infestation in my yard -- yay!

On the other hand, now I think I know what happened to my tarragon and parsley.

Posted by: Emmie at July 22, 2017 01:50 PM (ZapPq)

53 Posted by: Emmie at July 22, 2017 01:46 PM (ZapPq)

Weird, isn't it? I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Posted by: right wing yankee at July 22, 2017 01:50 PM (26lkV)

54 One year I planted a row of carrots. Not a peep out of them.

Next spring, there's this frilly stuff coming up among my tomatoes. Yep; carrots a year late.

Posted by: Emmie at July 22, 2017 01:53 PM (ZapPq)

55 illiniwek at July 22, 2017 01:33 PM

Cantaloupe pollen is only available to bees for a few hours after the flower opens. I don't know if humidity affects this. And they set best with a LOT of bee activity.

Sorry about the Japanese beetles.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 01:53 PM (BVQ+1)

56 keena at July 22, 2017 01:45 PM

Figs! I hate those bugs, too.

Thanks for the tomato variety report.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 01:58 PM (BVQ+1)

57 Wish I could contribute something positive. Japanese beetles, bunnies, raccoons and location have taken the joy out of the veggie garden.
We built in a forest. Cleared enough space for a 15 x 30 foot garden. Good sun and clay soil.
800lds of cow manure, yards of soil amender and garden soil added to fix the soil.
Maybe next year after I add compost and beat back the critters.

Posted by: never enough caffeine at July 22, 2017 02:02 PM (N3JsI)

58 Gordon at July 22, 2017 01:50 PM

I wish I knew something really effective for Japanese beetles. The best I can do is to suggest decoy plants that they like better, then blasting the bugs while they are on those plants.

Anybody have a report on the disease spores or organisms you're supposed to spread over lawns to kill the grubs?

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 02:03 PM (BVQ+1)

59 Have two winter squash varieties coming up (Long Pie Pumpkin and Papalote Ranch Cushaw ), plus okra and yellow watermelon. Monsoon season in the desert southwest is an awesome time to be growing vegetables.

Posted by: AzDesertRat at July 22, 2017 02:03 PM (3lGSs)

60 i bought potted rosemary and thyme today. any advice on planting them tomorrow?

Posted by: redclay at July 22, 2017 02:06 PM (nVN5G)

61 On the positive side, we have lots of peaches and nectarines in the Valley now. July Elbertas in the garden. Super-sweet peaches and nectarines at the farmers' stands. Peaches take some heat.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 02:06 PM (BVQ+1)

62 Redclay, I'm not the best expert, but I believe they require well-draining soil and not too much fertilizer.

Posted by: Emmie at July 22, 2017 02:07 PM (ZapPq)

63 redclay at July 22, 2017 02:06 PM

If they have been living in shade and you are planting them in sun, you might want to gradually expose them to more sun over a few days.

Otherwise, untangle the roots gently and plant in well-drained soil. Preferably in the evening. Firm the soil up, Water well.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 02:08 PM (BVQ+1)

64 Thanks for the cucumber info KT. Mine are just flowering now and I think I will try the hand pollinating method shown in the video for my picklers. Maybe my winter squash as well. Summer squash and slicing cukes seem to be plentiful enough without having to do that. I want more of the stuff I'm going to preserve.

Here in SE Michigan I picked the first of the bush beans this week. Looks like we will be having enough for fresh beans daily and some extra to freeze. This year we planted Dragon's Tongue and Royalty Purple pod so they would be easy for the grandson to spot the ripe ones. He helped with the planting and is fairly excited to see his results. The pole beans are coming along although no flowers yet and the corn is about 4 feet tall. I never did corn before, but I thought it would be fun for the kid to watch since it grows so fast and so tall. He already wants to know if we can make a corn maze. Sure kid, 3 rows of 12 plants each - hope he doesn't get lost. If the corn amounts to nothing much at least he will have been amused. I assume the critters will steal it all.

Posted by: cfo mom at July 22, 2017 02:09 PM (RfzVr)

65 Rosemary and thyme do best in morning sun and afternoon shade.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at July 22, 2017 02:10 PM (89T5c)

66 redclay at July 22, 2017 02:06 PM

And if you really have redclay with poor drainage, might want to build a mini raised bed for them - a little frame to put their roots above grade.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 02:10 PM (BVQ+1)

67 AzDesertRat at July 22, 2017 02:03 PM

There's a recipe for cooking Cushaw squash at Sand Hill Preservation Center. Is your variety as pretty as some of the others?

I think your second winter squash is in the butternut family. I think they tend to be a little more heat tolerant than the other "pumpkin" species.

Good luck with your garden.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 02:14 PM (BVQ+1)

68 Thanks Emmie and KT.

66
redclay at July 22, 2017 02:06 PM

And if you really have redclay
with poor drainage, might want to build a mini raised bed for them - a
little frame to put their roots above grade.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 02:10 PM (BVQ+1)
The ground outside is like trying to dig thru a brick wall.
Picked 2 different rosemary plants. I just remember the unkillable monster rosemary outside my Mommas kitchen. Used some about everyday. My parents passed and we sold the house. Still climb over the fence and saw off a limb or 2. I'm planting to keep myself out of jail.

Posted by: redclay at July 22, 2017 02:18 PM (nVN5G)

69 cfo mom at July 22, 2017 02:09 PM

Dragon's Tongue and Royalty Purple Pod are great varieties if they are suited to your climate. The purple ones may be less attractive to bean beetles where this pest is a problem. And they are fun for kids.

Best of luck with your grandson and corn. Sounds like some work.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 02:18 PM (BVQ+1)

70 redclay at July 22, 2017 02:18 PM

We have big rosemary plants here as landscaping shrubs. Planted when we were surrounded by vacant fields because they are gopher resistant.

The one near our porch is a different variety and has the best flavor for cooking.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 02:21 PM (BVQ+1)

71 Mr Aspirin Factory at July 22, 2017 02:10 PM

I think their sun/shade tolerance depends on the climate. Rosemary takes a lot of sun here, and it is pretty hot in summer. They got a good start before hot weather, though.

I have never planted thyme here. But I think it also needs good drainage.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 02:24 PM (BVQ+1)

72 Thanks, KT, for the beetle advice. I think there's not a lot more to be done other than blast 'em.

Posted by: Gordon at July 22, 2017 02:25 PM (NYYoR)

73 We picked our first cucumbers yesterday, about 6. It looks like we'll have have at least a peck by tomorrow and possibly much more, at least within the next few days.

We only grow pickling cucumbers, but we eat them as table cukes also. They are more flavorful than salad cukes the skins are more tender, and they are less seedy when picked before they start to swell past two to two amd a half inches.

We have grown Regal from Harris seed for many years now and have had very good luck, both transplanted and directly seeded. It is a gyneaceous variety. We don't seem to have many bees, but there are many other small pollinators around. Fruit set is always good. We also have good luck with all sorts of melons, but they are more picky about soil type than cucumbers, preferring sandier soil (at least in our experience.) We live in neOH.

Summer squash is doing well and very productive. Tomatoes are health and setting fruit, and a couple of the earlier small tomatoes are starting to ripen. I don't think it will be a bumper crop of tomatoes due to a late start followed by hot and dry. We seem to be into another hot, dry spell, but we got one third inch of rain this morning which means I can go a few more days before watering. All aroud us have had flash flooding. Go figure. Will dig up garlic this evening.

As always, good luck everyone!

Posted by: bergerbilder at July 22, 2017 02:29 PM (lIZQs)

74 73 bergerbilder at July 22, 2017 02:29 PM (lIZQs)

Do you just do refrigerator pickles or do you do traditional canned ones? I was wondering how many picklers one should plant in order to have enough to make traditional canning a possibility. If I only end up with 8 or 10 cukes a day, that's not really enough to bring out the canner but it's more refrigerator pickles than my family would ever eat before we're sick of them.

Posted by: cfo mom at July 22, 2017 02:39 PM (RfzVr)

75 "Anybody have a report on the disease spores or organisms you're supposed to spread over lawns to kill the grubs? Posted by: KT

I'd have to look into that and the whole life cycle thing. But reading up on spraying Sevin (carbaryl) I saw it stated that it would work even when washed down into the soil, on the new grubs I presume.

One lawn guy on YouTube pulled up some sod and said don't look for just the big white ones, and he showed many more newly hatched out "babies". And in this video (link below) the guy (in Maine) mentions HB nematodes as an organic option, but said results are more spotty.

I use a "Herculex" bt variety for corn that works on corn root worm, but I don't know of anything like that for Japanese beetle. The guy that farms for me (also happens to grow a lot of melons) had to go out and run over his soybeans to spray again for the Jap' beetles. We haven't ever had that kind of problem that I know of ... could be a huge issue if we don't get a real cold winter, or maybe that won't be enough.

I did see some bees out on my white clover in the yard, but I'm guessing all the Sevin spraying has maybe knocked out some bees as well, just when it seemed that "beecopalypse" thing was getting better. But that is just my local experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEUfoW1Yrz8

Posted by: illiniwek at July 22, 2017 02:41 PM (HQuBO)

76 47 keena at July 22, 2017 01:45 PM

My best guess is Echinopsis [Trichocereus] huascha.

Posted by: Don at July 22, 2017 02:41 PM (0yuZ3)

77 Out of curiosity, is there a 'prepper' aspect to the thread members' interest in gardening, at least a little? There is for me, although it is a very small part. Still, there is a minor satisfaction in knowing how to grow some foods.

Posted by: JTB at July 22, 2017 02:42 PM (V+03K)

78 bergerbilder at July 22, 2017 02:29 PM

Sounds like your garden is doing well. The Harris blurb for Regal doesn't mention fresh use. Does the skin get bitter in hot weather?

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 02:47 PM (BVQ+1)

79 Too late to fix now I guess, but can anyone help me with why my tomato plants turn yellow then brown then dry up and die. Is it too much water? Or do I have some sort of disease ridden plants? Every year same thing. Grow big full and put out tomatoes then before anything starts to ripen. Boom yellow death. Any ideas would be welcome and I'll try it next year cause these plants are toast.

Posted by: FtWorthMike at July 22, 2017 02:49 PM (gECZB)

80 JTB at July 22, 2017 02:42 PM

Yes, I would say there is a "prepper" aspect. Note the 'Monika" cucumber link. You could keep some seeds in the freezer for emergencies even if you normally plant a hybrid.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 02:51 PM (BVQ+1)

81 FtWorthMike at July 22, 2017 02:49 PM

Could be too much water or could be a soil disease. Have you tried varieties with resistance to the usual soil diseases?

If the plants die all at once, could also be a wind-borne blight. What region do you live in? What time of year do you plant?

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 02:55 PM (BVQ+1)

82 Pet thread is Nood.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1) (T) at July 22, 2017 02:58 PM (Ckg4U)

83 " is there a 'prepper' aspect to the thread members' interest in gardening, at least a little? JTB

yeah definitely for me, though I don't anticipate the total break down of society some do. I just enjoy having everything I need on hand for that feeling of independence. I'm much less enthusiastic about doing all the real work involved in processing everything I grow, so the raccoons and birds get a full share. But feeling self sufficient is its own reward perhaps.

I have all the hardware to make wine and beer also, yet just don't get around to it very often. But feeling self sufficient is its own reward. I guess.

Posted by: illiniwek at July 22, 2017 03:01 PM (HQuBO)

84 77
Out of curiosity, is there a 'prepper' aspect to the thread members'
interest in gardening, at least a little? There is for me, although it
is a very small part. Still, there is a minor satisfaction in knowing
how to grow some foods.

Posted by: JTB at July 22, 2017 02:42 PM (V+03K)

For me, somewhat. I like having canned stuff on hand for winter when I don't want to go out in the cold to the store. Glad that if times get rough I already know how to grow food without the learning curve a first time gardener would have and knowing I already have seeds and don't have to buy any (if they are even available in a worst case scenario).I also like growing things that if SHTF the marauders would not recognize as food. Everyone would recognize a tomato plant or a cornfield but not so many would know I was growing potatoes, carrots or beets. They also would probably not notice collard greens, kale or spinach growing among my weeds.

Posted by: cfo mom at July 22, 2017 03:02 PM (RfzVr)

85 KT. I live in FtWorth Tx. Usually plant end of March. Used various kinds. Got this years supposedly able to take the heat and they did produce here in June and July. Didn't see any type of disease proof ones but really didn't look too hard was concentrating on beating the heat. Guess that's what I'll try next year. Not depending on these. Just a hobby and like a fresh tomato from the backyard in the summer.

Posted by: FtWorthMike at July 22, 2017 03:07 PM (gECZB)

86 84 77
Out of curiosity, is there a 'prepper' aspect to the thread members'
interest in gardening, at least a little? There is for me, although it
is a very small part. Still, there is a minor satisfaction in knowing
how to grow some foods.

Posted by: JTB at July 22, 2017 02:42 PM (V+03K)

For me, somewhat. I like having canned stuff on hand for winter when I don't want to go out in the cold to the store. Glad that if times get rough I already know how to grow food without the learning curve a first time gardener would have and knowing I already have seeds and don't have to buy any (if they are even available in a worst case scenario).I also like growing things that if SHTF the marauders would not recognize as food. Everyone would recognize a tomato plant or a cornfield but not so many would know I was growing potatoes, carrots or beets. They also would probably not notice collard greens, kale or spinach growing among my weeds.
Posted by: cfo mom at July 22, 2017 03:02 PM (RfzVr)

Same here. I grew up on a farm with beef cattle, and a two acre produce patch, as well as cash crops. I should have learned a lot more about the process, now that I have started my own garden. I just remember picking rows of beans, okra and squash in blazing Texas heat, so that colored the process for me a bit. Now, I relish it.

Posted by: moki at July 22, 2017 03:11 PM (V+V48)

87 Starting to get cucumbers, may have 1 to eat in couple of days, lots of tomatoes but no ripe ones yet. Have been getting leaf lettuce but not sure how much longer they will be good with the hot weather. And green/wax beans are growing and have flowers so hopefully will be having them every night as I have a dozen plants.

Posted by: Skip at July 22, 2017 03:11 PM (9g/6M)

88 FtWorthMike at July 22, 2017 03:07 PM

In your climate, you may be able to get a fall crop. I think they usually use one of the smaller determinate varieties. Try planting in a container with new, soilless planter mix. At least 5 gallons.

You might also try some shade cloth or afternoon shade for your spring tomatoes.

Good luck.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 03:12 PM (BVQ+1)

89 Thanks for the responses about 'prepper'. I agree. Not especially worried about defending the 4'x12' garden from the ravening masses but there is a satisfaction in learning and exercising that knowledge. And seed saving or pollinating non-hybrids, etc. can be fun.

We'll gladly can/preserve any excess from the garden, if it happens. But we already started discussing what iron rations we'll need to buy for the hurricane season and winter pantry.

Posted by: JTB at July 22, 2017 03:13 PM (V+03K)

90 Skip at July 22, 2017 03:11 PM

Yay! a cucumber! Do you think you were just getting mostly male blossoms at first (as is normal)?

Fresh green beans from the garden are the best.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 03:15 PM (BVQ+1)

91 I have been having leaf lettuce ( out of a dozen plants) about 2 out of 3 days. I do not cut all the leaves off but wife did on 1 and hasn't had any more but then need rain so maybe. I water from my barrel but its just to keep them alive in the 90 degree weather.

Posted by: Skip at July 22, 2017 03:16 PM (9g/6M)

92 Thanks KT. I'll try that this year. Hopefully next winter I'll remember to look for disease resistant ones.

Posted by: FtWorthMike at July 22, 2017 03:18 PM (gECZB)

93 There are a few starting ( cucumbers) but at lunch today a co-worker said he has been getting lots already. I could eat fresh green beens every night.

Posted by: Skip at July 22, 2017 03:18 PM (9g/6M)

94 cfo - I only do refrigerator pickles now, but have canned many in the past when all the kids were living at home. Our cucumber patch is about 15 feet long, planted in a row. This gives enough for both refrigerator and canned if we want. Again, we grow the gynaceous type and they are very productive. They are planted on low hills and mulched with straw chaff.

KT - The garden is doing better than it should, so thank God for that. It has been more work and worry this yeat than usual. We learned to accept that not everything will do well every year, but it all seems to even out. For example, we won't get any corn this year, and green beans I will make one more try by sprouting and putting in small containers before transplanting into the garden when first true leaves start to appear. This has worked before. Everyone seems to have no problems growing beans, but it seems we struggle almost every year lately. We used to alway put some diazinon in the seed row, but this has been banned, so I suspect we have little root maggots or fungus unfriendly to beans.

The pickling cucumber do not get tough or bitter skins in hot weather. They only get bitter late in the season with cool nights, and usually on the blossom end.

Posted by: bergerbilder at July 22, 2017 03:22 PM (lIZQs)

95 Oh, and had 1 spaghetti squash which I thought looked ready but wife said it was green inside so will let the next ones on longer.

Posted by: Skip at July 22, 2017 03:24 PM (9g/6M)

96 bergerbilder at July 22, 2017 03:22 PM

There is a corn seed maggot that thrives in highly organic soils. Could be what is attacking your green bean seeds. Pre-sprouting indoors can be one answer.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 03:32 PM (BVQ+1)

97 Skip at July 22, 2017 03:24 PM

I prefer spaghetti squash before it is fully ripe, especially if you plan to put sauce on it. Boil it up and eat it.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 03:33 PM (BVQ+1)

98 94 Posted by: bergerbilder at July 22, 2017 03:22 PM (lIZQs)

Thank you. That gives me a basis for how many I should plan to plant. We'll see how the yield is this year and adjust from there. Never paid any attention to the gynaceous or not stuff, but I will be looking at that.

Posted by: cfo mom at July 22, 2017 03:34 PM (RfzVr)

99 I need to investigate growing snap peas for the future garden, both for any supports they need and if they do okay in my area. I love the stuff and can eat them by the pound.

Posted by: JTB at July 22, 2017 03:39 PM (V+03K)

100 KT: "you might also want to take a crack at a positive ID for this milkweed species"

Looks like Asclepias tuberosa to me. I have several growing in a perennial bed except that they are covered in oleander aphids (Aphis nerii). I've sicced the lady beetles on them so there's a pretty good feeding frenzy going on.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 22, 2017 03:41 PM (H8S+R)

101 My wife did cook up the spaghetti squash, I prefer straight yellow Squash

Posted by: Skip at July 22, 2017 03:49 PM (9g/6M)

102 FtWorthMike: "Too late to fix now I guess, but can anyone help me with why my tomato plants turn yellow then brown then dry up and die..."

Spider mites? They're really tiny but can do heavy damage quickly in summer heat.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 22, 2017 03:50 PM (H8S+R)

103 70
redclay at July 22, 2017 02:18 PM

We have big rosemary plants
here as landscaping shrubs. Planted when we were surrounded by vacant
fields because they are gopher resistant.

The one near our porch is a different variety and has the best flavor for cooking.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 02:21 PM (BVQ+1)

they are arp and bbq, just ordered tuscan blue.

Posted by: redclay at July 22, 2017 03:55 PM (nVN5G)

104 I have tomatoes in pots. I went with Stupice and a couple of cherry tomatoes. I might actually get a few tomatoes this year. It hasn't been all that hot but is finally in the 80s.

I bought herbs and planted two big pots. I'm happy that the lemon verbena is doing well. I put a leaf of that and mint into ice water. Really hoping to get moved and put in a real garden.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at July 22, 2017 03:58 PM (Lqy/e)

105 KT: "Anybody have a report on the disease spores or organisms you're supposed to spread over lawns to kill the grubs?"

Beneficial nematodes (Heterohabditis bacteriophora)

They only go after the soil dwelling stages (grubs) of the beetle. Apply them when you can get some relatively moist soil and when the sun is essentially not shining. I apply them after a day or afternoon of rain, just prior to sunset, and then lightly water them in again. They are quite photosensitive and extremely small (microscopic). Evening applications give them the best opportunity to find and burrow through the soil to safety.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 22, 2017 04:03 PM (H8S+R)

106 There is a line of thunderstorms heading for eastern Pennsylvania, going to go out and make sure plants are staked up

Posted by: Skip at July 22, 2017 04:03 PM (9g/6M)

107 100: Looks like Asclepias tuberosa to me.

I think it looks like Asclepias curassavica. The bicolor is so . . . bicolor.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 04:06 PM (BVQ+1)

108 redclay at July 22, 2017 03:55 PM

Aarp is a famous cultivar and bbq sounds like a culinary variety. The ones out in our yard were unnamed, planted for shape. Their fragrance is kind of pine-y.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 04:09 PM (BVQ+1)

109 Notsothoreau at July 22, 2017 03:58 PM

Stupice is sometimes cut back in the desert to re-grow in the fall. Said to make primo tomoato juice. The lemon verbena sounds fun.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 04:11 PM (BVQ+1)

110 Skip at July 22, 2017 03:49 PM

I prefer straight yellow squash if you are eating it as "squash". I like immature spaghetti squash better than the mature kind if you are pretending you are eating pasta with sauce.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 04:13 PM (BVQ+1)

111 AnonymousDrivel at July 22, 2017 04:03 PM

Thanks. Japanese beetles sound terrible.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 04:14 PM (BVQ+1)

112 "Too late to fix now I guess, but can anyone help me with why my tomato plants turn yellow then brown then dry up and die..."

I have had this problem with peppers, and it turned out that they were just too root bound when the plants were transplanted.

Posted by: bergerbilder at July 22, 2017 04:15 PM (lIZQs)

113 And thanks for the earleir cactus ID, Don.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 04:17 PM (BVQ+1)

114 Looking on the weather site the storms are going to miss me, the garden really could use the rain

Posted by: Skip at July 22, 2017 04:21 PM (9g/6M)

115 KT - We have lime to put in the garden but never got around to it because too wet, then other things to do. Maybe this fall. If what you say is happening to me ( organic/acid) this could help, right?

Posted by: bergerbilder at July 22, 2017 04:21 PM (lIZQs)

116 Where are you at skip, because I just noticed the same thing you were looking at.

Posted by: bergerbilder at July 22, 2017 04:26 PM (lIZQs)

117 Western Mont Co

Posted by: Skip at July 22, 2017 04:57 PM (9g/6M)

118 Definitely going to get some rain,

Posted by: Skip at July 22, 2017 05:27 PM (9g/6M)

119 My oldest went to Seton Hill, so I've at least driven by the area. I'm about 10 mi east of Akron.

Posted by: bergerbilder at July 22, 2017 05:29 PM (lIZQs)

120 We would pick up sausage at DeLallo's on the way home.

Posted by: bergerbilder at July 22, 2017 05:32 PM (lIZQs)

121 There ard a few fairly close to me.
Its coming down in buckets

Posted by: Skip at July 22, 2017 05:41 PM (9g/6M)

122 Posted by: JTB at July 22, 2017 03:39 PM (V+03K)

We grew some sugar snap peas and sno peas this spring after I learned to plant them when it's still cold. They produced until the heat killed em a couple of weeks ago. I think you need to plant a lot of seeds to satisfy those of us who love them, tho.

Our trellis is a nylon string net that was just a few bucks, tied onto a structure made of 3 conduit pipes, screwed together with connectors. You can pound them into the ground or screw straps to hold them against wood. It's cool to lean 2 together. These have lasted several years.

Posted by: OldDominionMom at July 22, 2017 05:50 PM (GzDYP)

123 Glad to see CaliGirl's entire garden was not killed by ash fall!!

I'm sorry, everybody. I'm just too tired, returning from an 11-day trailer trip - too much laundry piled in the fireplace room, too much food to put away (all over the kitchen currently), too much mess to clean up - and a huge grocery run, in our July heat, leaving even more stuff to put away.

Plus we took only a very short garden walk this morning. The little I can remember: one potato "pot" looks bad - corn's tall - one zucchini looks very sick - green bush beans starting to produce - spring red raspberries gone - snow pea plants burned out - blueberry bushes look bad - cantaloupe vines have covered the remaining spring carrots.

Brain just shorted out. Time to stop.

Posted by: Pat* at July 22, 2017 07:24 PM (qC1ju)

124 I need to investigate growing snap peas for the future garden, both for any supports they need and if they do okay in my area. I love the stuff and can eat them by the pound.
Posted by: JTB at July 22, 2017 03:39

We had some decent production from snap peas, esp considering hot hot it has been lately they are still producing. Maybe because they are shaded in the garden.

Had a couple of great stir-frys w/ them, around here they are hard to find in the store anymore for some reason.

We're in 5a, cusp of 5b, not sure where you are in PA but maybe similar growing conditions.

Posted by: Farmer at July 22, 2017 08:42 PM (yJ1e6)

125 bergerbilder at July 22, 2017 04:21 PM

The impression I get is that those corn seed maggots (seedcorn maggots) love soil conditions that are great for plants. Lots of organic matter in the soil. Not sure if the pH makes a big difference. They attack large seeds in addition to corn.

Summary from Purdue:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y7hfhtaw

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 09:48 PM (BVQ+1)

126
redclay at July 22, 2017 03:55 PM

The rosemary cultivar is Arp. Sorry.

Also, don't plant the thyme too close to the rosemary if you want permanent plantings. The rosemary will overwhelm the thyme.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 09:50 PM (BVQ+1)

127 Pat* at July 22, 2017 07:24 PM

Glad you got home safely. Get some rest.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 09:52 PM (BVQ+1)

128 KT -Thanks for the link. I think I'll go back to using soil insecticide, whatever is available. I cant think of much else I can do except to stop mulching (straw chaff, and it's free) and that is out of the question.

Posted by: bergerbilder at July 22, 2017 10:34 PM (lIZQs)

129 Oh, and I did ckeck the garden today, because I thought that after the rain the sqush and cucumbers would grow very fast. Good thing. I got 10 cukes and 6 yellow squash that would have been too big tomorrow. And, I found that one zucchini that always hides, that would be 3lbs tomorrow instead of 2lbs.

Posted by: bergerbilder at July 22, 2017 10:41 PM (lIZQs)

130 Yes, the one zucchini that always hides.

Heh.

Posted by: KT at July 22, 2017 11:54 PM (BVQ+1)

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