The Human Cost Of Government Regulation: 79 Dead In One Day

This NYT article is a mass of evasive and sneaky explanations for the failure of government regulations and regulators to create and enforce reasonable building codes. At every turn it seems it was pressure from "business friendly" politicians that forced the regulators to allow substandard materials to be used. Why Grenfell Tower Burned: Regulators Put Cost Before Safety is a typical NYT article; it wows the unwary with seemingly in-depth reporting but it is clear that the conclusion was written before the reporting was complete.

Promising to cut "red tape," business-friendly politicians evidently judged that cost concerns outweighed the risks of allowing flammable materials to be used in facades. Builders in Britain were allowed to wrap residential apartment towers -- perhaps several hundred of them -- from top to bottom in highly flammable materials, a practice forbidden in the United States and many European countries. And companies did not hesitate to supply the British market.

How this would have turned out worse without the existence of any regulation is difficult to imagine. The only difference would be that the people responsible would go to jail. The fire-safety regulators and the building code writers and the inspectors and all of the other government bureaucrats whose very existence is to prevent exactly this catastrophe will be carefully insulated from any blame. There will be a large and expensive government inquiry, and they will find irregularities in the regulatory apparatus, but mostly they will find that it was private industry that is the real culprit. "Mean old Alcoa should never have sold us that exterior cladding!"

A formal government inquiry into the fire has just begun. But interviews with tenants, industry executives and fire safety engineers point to a gross failure of government oversight, a refusal to heed warnings from inside Britain and around the world and a drive by successive governments from both major political parties to free businesses from the burden of safety regulations.

So the very people who failed so spectacularly will be doing the inquiry? Brilliant!

And let's not forget to blame rich people!

Survivors have charged that the facade was installed to beautify their housing project for the benefit of wealthy neighbors.

Posted by: CBD at 12:00 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 It's worse than that -- the WHOLE REASON they needed to re-cover the buildings with "cladding" in the first place was to meet "green" climate-change regulations.

The disaster was caused by the environmentalists, not by greedy businessmen.

Posted by: zombie at June 25, 2017 11:51 AM (DQ4Fv)

2 Furthermore, the WHOLE REASON the fire started in the first place was because the residents were supplied with "green" refrigerators that use an explosive gas as a refrigerant, rather than the inert freon -- because once again "sustainability" regulations by the green lobby has a conspiracy theory that freon is bad for the planet.

The entire disaster was caused by climate-change rules dreamt up and implemented by left-wing politicians.

Posted by: zombie at June 25, 2017 11:54 AM (DQ4Fv)

3 Of course the narrative is "Cost Before Safety, those evil corporate basterds!"

and not "Green uber Alles, because the children!"

Posted by: Warai-otoko at June 25, 2017 11:55 AM (hcyUh)

4 The disaster was caused by the environmentalists, not by greedy businessmen.

Feed them to the now-extinct polar bears.

Posted by: pep at June 25, 2017 11:56 AM (LAe3v)

5 Feed them to the now-extinct polar bears.
Posted by: pep at June 25, 2017 11:56 AM (LAe3v)

Are they... ill-tempered?

Posted by: Warai-otoko at June 25, 2017 11:56 AM (hcyUh)

6 The entire goal of environmentalism is to kill off the human population. I'm sure they now have a joke something like "What do you call 79 dead people killed in a green building fire? A good start."

Posted by: tonyc at June 25, 2017 11:56 AM (G89X4)

7 The articles I read and linked to said that the fire spread so rapidly because of the "cladding" used on the outside of the building. That type of cladding is banned in the US by the building codes. This morning I had a link that said they have found 34 more high rise buildings with that same material.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 11:56 AM (mpXpK)

8 On the opposite side, it's possible that the regulations preventing the use of asbestos in the WTC was a producing cause for their collapse after the impact.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 25, 2017 11:57 AM (IDPbH)

9 The New York times knows these facts (that the disaster was caused by re-covering the building to make is more "sustainable" to meet climate change regulations), and yet produce this lie-filled propaganda garbage.

The media are despicable liars, as usual.

Posted by: zombie at June 25, 2017 11:57 AM (DQ4Fv)

10 Mud huts are fire-proof.

Posted by: Cicero Boom chicka boom Kaboom! Kid at June 25, 2017 11:58 AM (98vja)

11 Accountability.....whazzat?

Posted by: BignJames at June 25, 2017 11:58 AM (x9c8r)

12 It's worse than that -- the WHOLE REASON they needed to re-cover the buildings with "cladding" in the first place was to meet "green" climate-change regulations.

The disaster was caused by the environmentalists, not by greedy businessmen.

Posted by: zombie at June 25, 2017 11:51 AM (DQ4Fv)


This.

Plus installing insulation on the outside of a building is the least 'bang for the buck' you can spend.

It's like the science behind 'R' values doesn't mean anything to these people. More energy probably went into creating and installing the insulation than it would ever save.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 11:59 AM (PduNE)

13 8
On the opposite side, it's possible that the regulations preventing the
use of asbestos in the WTC was a producing cause for their collapse
after the impact.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 25, 2017 11:57 AM (IDPbH)

The WTC collapse was caused by the fire in the central part of the building softening the steel pins holding the floors up. The building was not designed to withstand a conflagration caused by a ton of JP5 released to the interior.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 12:00 PM (mpXpK)

14 It can be a double edged sword, building product safety has saved many lives and property damage. But as a report I heard on Rush's show a British engineer thought using certain products helped the fire

Posted by: Skip at June 25, 2017 12:00 PM (Ot7+c)

15 It's like the science behind 'R' values doesn't mean anything to these people. More energy probably went into creating and installing the insulation than it would ever save.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 11:59 AM (PduNE)

Somebody knew a guy who knew a guy... etc. etc.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at June 25, 2017 12:00 PM (hcyUh)

16 The disaster was caused by the environmentalists, not by greedy businessmen.

I
think I read somewhere that the cladding was polystyrene, which just
happens to be the material they used to cover our WWII-era buildings at
my lab, because green. I guess napalm was not available.

Posted by: pep at June 25, 2017 12:02 PM (LAe3v)

17 Accountability.....whazzat?
--

It's something that only applies to Republicans.

Posted by: shibumi at June 25, 2017 12:04 PM (aT+Bx)

18
It can be a double edged sword, building product safety has saved many
lives and property damage.

Posted by: Skip at June 25, 2017 12:00 PM (Ot7+c)

I agree that rational building standards can improve safety.

But the insanity that is government regulation subsumes that goal and turns into something with a life of it's own.

You build things. How often do you waste your time with legally mandated things that you know are ridiculous?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 12:05 PM (wYseH)

19 So much stupid-- it burnsss.

Posted by: USNtakim at June 25, 2017 12:05 PM (zZWkn)

20 The outer shell cladding is made up of two thin aluminium sheets with polyethylene filler in between them.


I wondered about using poly but they did have aluminum sheets surrounding it.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 12:07 PM (mpXpK)

21
As I've said repeatedly in the past, when they change building codes to reflect 'global warming' by reducing the depth of cement footings because frost does not penetrate as far as it *used* to, *then* I'll sit up and pay attention.

Until then, I'm onto their game.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 12:08 PM (PduNE)

22 the fire in the central part of the building
softening the steel pins holding the floors up.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 12:00 PM (mpXpK)

I have never seen that before. Where did you read that?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 12:09 PM (wYseH)

23 So really, the whole situation really comes down to:

"Yeah, a lot of people died, but our building was environmentally friendly, and that's all the really matters. As for the deaths, well there are too many people on this planet, so we did Mother Gaia a favor."

Posted by: shibumi at June 25, 2017 12:11 PM (aT+Bx)

24 "How often do you waste your time with legally mandated things that you know are ridiculous?"

I once worked in a two-story Army building dating from WWII. There are many such.

The larger bathroom on the 1st floor was converted to women's, and the smaller one on the 2nd was made the men's. This made sense because there are so many more women than men in the Army. /sarc

While I was there, the 2nd floor men's room was gutted and renovated. There was only one urinal of three available during the work, which was a huge pain. The renovations included destroying one of the three total urinals and two stalls to insert an oversized 'wheelchair friendly' stall.

On the 2nd floor. Of an Army building. Without an elevator.

So we went from 3 urinals and 3 stalls to 2 urinals and 2 stalls to make room for wheelchairs that not only didn't exist (because it was the fucking Army), but couldn't get up there if they did exist.

Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 12:11 PM (ORmJ3)

25 Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 12:00 PM (mpXpK)

They stopped spraying asbestos protectant on the structural steel because of the scare studies that were pushed at the time. I assume that included the structural pins.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 25, 2017 12:12 PM (IDPbH)

26 The WTC collapse was caused by the fire in the
central part of the building softening the steel pins holding the floors
up. The building was not designed to withstand a conflagration caused
by a ton of JP5 released to the interior.


Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 12:00 PM (mpXpK)
...
Fire can't melt steel, Vic. Everyone knows this.

Posted by: Infowars Knows Everything at June 25, 2017 12:12 PM (U3sWw)

27 The purpose of government regulations is to prevent competition, award bribery and promote incompetence.

Remember, Indian (feather, not dot) reservations bad, public housing good.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 25, 2017 12:13 PM (5VlCp)

28 Liberals know they can just forever move the goalposts on any tragedy and point to how nothing bad would ever happen if you just gave bureaucrats complete control of everything.


Fires happen, people die. Go look at truly socialist countries and how well they fare in accidents like this.

Posted by: publix at June 25, 2017 12:13 PM (gQ2iT)

29 Fire can't melt steel, Vic. Everyone knows this.
Posted by: Infowars Knows Everything at June 25, 2017 12:12 PM
--

I know, right?

Posted by: Rosie Where is my Lithium O'Donnell at June 25, 2017 12:14 PM (aT+Bx)

30 I agree that rational building standards can improve safety.

Nobody is against safety codes. The problem here is that safety was not the driver, "being green" was.

Our Navy is becoming steadily less functional because the ships are designed to be green, not fight wars. Biofuels are an excellent example.

I don't give a damn if they're green. I want them to be able to win.

Posted by: pep at June 25, 2017 12:14 PM (LAe3v)

31 22 I have never seen that before. Where did you read that?


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 12:09 PM (wYseH)

It was on a special they had on TV about a month after the collapse. They has some kind of construction engineer with diagrams who explained the whole thing. I'm sure a little judicious use of Bing can find it or something similar.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 12:15 PM (mpXpK)

32 "Going Green" probably cost us the Columbia.

Or so I have read. Not an expert.

Posted by: Adriane the Sci Fi Critic ... at June 25, 2017 12:15 PM (AoK0a)

33 Bet a fucking raghead set the fire. We'll never get the truth from the crooked government or those sooper sleuths in the media.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at June 25, 2017 12:16 PM (89T5c)

34 25 They stopped spraying asbestos protectant on the
structural steel because of the scare studies that were pushed at the
time. I assume that included the structural pins.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 25, 2017 12:12 PM (IDPbH)

IIRC on that program they said there had been insulation on the columns and steel but the aircraft crash dislodged it.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 12:17 PM (mpXpK)

35 NYT?

I expect you could find more honest "reporting" in either Slate or The Nation.

Posted by: Charles Martel at June 25, 2017 12:17 PM (6NPe1)

36 I'm sure a little judicious use of Bing can find it or something similar.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 12:15 PM (mpXpK)

Except it isn't true.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 12:18 PM (wYseH)

37 We all deal with the same thing everyday in our appliances, with dishwashers that no longer clean dishes, washing machines that take two hours to do a crappy job, toilets that don't flush (although they've gotten better), and CFLs.

I'd be a lot more enthusiastic if I knew the people making these rules had engineering degrees, or could at least pass calculus. That leaves out most politicians and bureaucrats.

Posted by: pep at June 25, 2017 12:18 PM (LAe3v)

38 First thing my brother the firefighter said was "no sprinklers". No sprinklers in a high rise means lots of dead people.

Posted by: tu3031 at June 25, 2017 12:19 PM (qJhUV)

39 33 Bet a fucking raghead set the fire. We'll never get the truth from the crooked government or those sooper sleuths in the media.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at June 25, 2017 12:16 PM (89T5c)

--------------

It was started when a goat overturned a kerosene lantern.

Posted by: Soona at June 25, 2017 12:19 PM (Fmupd)

40 36
I'm sure a little judicious use of Bing can find it or something similar.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 12:15 PM (mpXpK)

Except it isn't true.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 12:18 PM (wYseH)

It was all logically explained and seemed true to me.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 12:19 PM (mpXpK)

41 tu3031 at June 25, 2017 12:19 PM (qJhUV)

Also, no external fire escapes.

Posted by: Adriane the Sci Fi Critic ... at June 25, 2017 12:20 PM (AoK0a)

42 Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 12:17 PM (mpXpK)

That was the inferior substitute to the asbestos which was usually sprayed on.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 25, 2017 12:20 PM (IDPbH)

43 33 Bet a fucking raghead set the fire. We'll never get the truth from the crooked government or those sooper sleuths in the media.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory


The police revealed that the fire DID start in a Muslim's apartment -- but that it was caused by a new "green-friendly" refrigerator short-circuiting and exploding, not set intentionally. The refrigerator used pentane as the refrigerant, because pentane doesn't contribute to "the ozone hole" if it leaks out. All the residents were supplied with these explosive refrigerators, to meet "green" regulations.

Posted by: zombie at June 25, 2017 12:20 PM (DQ4Fv)

44 The grass really doesn't look that tall from my second-floor window.

Posted by: rickl at June 25, 2017 12:22 PM (sdi6R)

45 The police revealed that the fire DID start in a
Muslim's apartment -- but that it was caused by a new "green-friendly"
refrigerator short-circuiting and exploding, not set intentionally. The
refrigerator used pentane as the refrigerant, because pentane doesn't
contribute to "the ozone hole" if it leaks out. All the residents were
supplied with these explosive refrigerators, to meet "green"
regulations.

Posted by: zombie


Not to worry, those units will all be replaced. With scale-model Hindenburgs.

Posted by: pep at June 25, 2017 12:22 PM (LAe3v)

46 "short-circuiting and exploding, not set intentionally."

Short circuits don't just happen. If it wasn't built that way, something has to change to cause it.

Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 12:23 PM (ORmJ3)

47 We all deal with the same thing everyday in our appliances, with dishwashers that no longer clean dishes, washing machines that take two hours to do a crappy job, toilets that don't flush (although they've gotten better), and CFLs.
---

Yep.

And that's why I'll repair my old and trusty washer and dryer, as well as my old, water using toilets.

As for CFLs, you know those crazy people who horde light bulbs? Yep. That's me.

Posted by: shibumi at June 25, 2017 12:25 PM (aT+Bx)

48 Posted by: zombie at June 25, 2017 12:20 PM (DQ4Fv)

Was the Muslim who lived in the apartment one of the 79 dead?

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 25, 2017 12:25 PM (IDPbH)

49 Light bulbs.

Old type worked great and were cheap so GE and their ilk had to bribe their congress goons to pass laws forcing people to buy their "new" "green" bulbs which are expensive and make GE and their ilk lots more cash for a product no one wanted.

Still didn't work, people hoarded old style bulbs and fought back by ripping their congress goon a new ass.

Over freaking light bulbs. Watermelons never sleep, they just keep getting greener on the outside and redder on the inside.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 25, 2017 12:25 PM (5VlCp)

50 This article could have been titled "Labour-run council builds horribly ugly public housing project, owns it for 40 years without basic safety features, contracts out management to politically connected outfit that slaps dangerous crap on the outside".

But no...

Posted by: JEM at June 25, 2017 12:25 PM (TppKb)

51 All the residents were supplied with these explosive refrigerators, to meet "green" regulations.
--

Free exploding refrigerators? Allah be praised! That makes my job so much easier!!!

Posted by: Achmed, a Pieceful Muslim at June 25, 2017 12:27 PM (aT+Bx)

52 Ugh, why is none of this surprising?

Well, one part was surprising: apparently the guy whose fridge started the fire took the time to pack a few suitcases before informing his neighbors. No immediate call to 911, etc. Nice.

Posted by: Lizzy at June 25, 2017 12:29 PM (NOIQH)

53 48 Posted by: zombie at June 25, 2017 12:20 PM (DQ4Fv)

Was the Muslim who lived in the apartment one of the 79 dead?
Posted by: Jack Sock


Nope. In fact, the media praised him as a hero, because after his fridge blew up, he ran down the hallway telling everyone on his floor to get out of the building.

(Everyone on the twenty floors above, however -- did not get a warning.)

I don't know if this is actually true, or just a cover story -- but it is what was reported.

Posted by: zombie at June 25, 2017 12:29 PM (DQ4Fv)

54 "Free exploding refrigerators? Allah be praised! That makes my job so much easier!!!"

It really does sound like a handout of IEDs, doesn't it?

Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 12:30 PM (ORmJ3)

55 IIRC on that program they said there had been insulation on the columns and steel but the aircraft crash dislodged it.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 12:17 PM (mpXpK)

In a catastrophe of that nature, insulation can do nothing but slow (slightly) the ultimate failure of the steel it's on.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at June 25, 2017 12:31 PM (XUcIQ)

56 Vic, the NIST report is linked below. It states what they found with testing, reports, etc. regarding why the towers imploded.

Very detailed and understandable to the lay person, and also answers all the conspiracy theorists, although they still refuse to believe.

https://www.nist.gov/el/faqs-nist-wtc-towers-investigation

Posted by: Jen the original at June 25, 2017 12:31 PM (tCSTx)

57 It's my understanding that some of the original structural connectors were fished out of the WTC wreckage, undamaged by the fire and the collapse. When subjected to a forensic metallurgical inspection, some of them were found to be out of spec.

As in dramatically out of spec, to where it was clear they hadn't come from the authorized original suppliers, and the investigators couldn't tell where in the heck the things had originated.

I was shocked -- shocked!!! -- to learn that a highrise under the supervision of the New York Port Authority, that icon of clean government and operational competence, and built by mob-connected firms and unions, would have incorporated cut-rate ersatz materials that endangered the lives of the occupants.

Really, if you can't trust those (wise) guys, who can you?

The powers that be in NYC were in no hurry to have this subject brought up. I sometimes cynically wonder if the more lunatic sort of 9/11 conspiracy theories are deliberately encouraged by them.

There's a whole lot of money in large NYC public construction contracts. And there's a real incentive to keep noseyparkers from asking detailed questions about how the sausage is made.

Posted by: torquewrench at June 25, 2017 12:31 PM (ujwCG)

58 Hey, it's getting a lot shwarma in here.

Posted by: Goat raper on the 21st floor at June 25, 2017 12:31 PM (89T5c)

59 "It really does sound like a handout of IEDs, doesn't it?"

And with built-in plausible deniability. The evidence of tampering with the explosive refrigerator would be destroyed in the event. Res ipsa loquitur.

Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 12:32 PM (ORmJ3)

60 It really does sound like a handout of IEDs, doesn't it?
---

They are so badly made that even my goat can figure out how to made it be explode. Praise allah for the idiot kaffir and his government regulations.

Posted by: Achmed, a Pieceful Muslim at June 25, 2017 12:32 PM (aT+Bx)

61 42 That was the inferior substitute to the asbestos which was usually sprayed on.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 25, 2017 12:20 PM (IDPbH)

I was just looking at a big write up done more recently. it says the insulating material was being replaced and they were only partially through with the job. So in effect, parts of the building had no insulating material on the steel beams at all. It also said that as the steel weekended and began to undergo plastic deformation it bowed inward and could no longer support the load on it from above.

That is when it began to pancake down. The "pancaking" caused dynamic loads on the floors below which had already been weekended by fires from the interior. They in turn began to pancake.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 12:32 PM (mpXpK)

62 WTC had an unusual design which made it susceptible to an attack by large jet craft. Totally foreseeable.

The floors were suspended from a hard inner core and pillars around the perimeter. The core held the elevators and plumbing and such. When a floor broke away from its moorings it would drop onto the floor below, breaking it away from its moorings, and so on. This effect accelerated (makes me think of 45 rpm record players) which has led to the rumors that explosives must have been planted throughout the towers for this to be possible.

Nearly everyone below the fireline survived, but everyone above it died.

I was just at the 9/11 Museum, which I recommend, but I saw nearly no mention of the estimated 200 jumpers. These were nearly all from the first-hit North Tower. Theory is that after over an hour of burning the heat and smoke became overwhelming and drove people to jump.

Posted by: Ignoramus at June 25, 2017 12:34 PM (pV/54)

63 1 It's worse than that -- the WHOLE REASON they needed to re-cover the buildings with "cladding" in the first place was to meet "green" climate-change regulations.

The disaster was caused by the environmentalists, not by greedy businessmen.

Posted by: zombie at June 25, 2017 11:51 AM (DQ4Fv)

++++

The thermal cladding was installed in accordance with the demands of Gaia. The lives of those who were burned alive should be thought of as a necessary sacrifice to remain in our Goddess's good graces.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at June 25, 2017 12:39 PM (WzbqD)

64 Its like they thought he Hindenburg would be safe if they stuck it end-up.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 25, 2017 12:40 PM (oVJmc)

65 LED light bulbs beat both CFLs and incandescent bulbs. Sure LEDs are expensive but they last forever. CFLs suck donkey pud.

Posted by: USNtakim at June 25, 2017 12:41 PM (zZWkn)

66 This is just odd...either the guy is an idiot or evi:

The man whose flat caught fire first in Grenfell Tower packed a bag of clothes before raising the alarm, it was claimed.

His pregnant neighbourMaryam Adam, said that he knocked on her door to warn her about the fire at 12.50am.

At that point he had already prepared to leave the building by packing possessions into a holdall, she claimed.

The fire brigade was called at 12.54am and arrived within six minutes.

Maryam, 41, described how she could see the fire in the man's kitchen
through his open front door, saying it still appeared small at that
time
.



http://preview.tinyurl.com/yc2juzrj

Posted by: Lizzy at June 25, 2017 12:41 PM (NOIQH)

67 Still didn't work, people hoarded old style bulbs and fought back by ripping their congress goon a new ass.

Over freaking light bulbs. Watermelons never sleep, they just keep getting greener on the outside and redder on the inside.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 25, 2017 12:25 PM (5VlCp)

I just discovered that Newcandescent, the company that bought all the light bulb patterns from GE and was producing rough service incandescent bulbs, has apparently discontinued them and only has LED's. Sigh...

Posted by: Jen the original at June 25, 2017 12:42 PM (tCSTx)

68 62
Theory is that after over an hour of burning the heat and smoke became overwhelming and drove people to jump.
Posted by: Ignoramus at June 25, 2017 12:34 PM (pV/54)


People almost always jump from burning buildings. I guess it's an automatic reflex against heat and suffocation.

In the case of the WTC, I read that some of the people may not have deliberately jumped, but as they crowded near the openings gasping for breath, were inadvertently pushed out by the crush of people behind them. Horrible.

Posted by: rickl at June 25, 2017 12:43 PM (sdi6R)

69 Mrs al-O'Leary's goat knocked over an oil lamp.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 25, 2017 12:44 PM (kTF2Z)

70 Ban DDT. It's for the birds.

Posted by: Environmental Scientist and Chemist Rachel Carson at June 25, 2017 12:44 PM (JO9+V)

71 Posted by: Lizzy at June 25, 2017 12:41 PM (NOIQH)

That totally doesn't sound "off" at all .

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at June 25, 2017 12:45 PM (sEDyY)

72 I just discovered that Newcandescent, the company that bought all the light bulb patterns from GE and was producing rough service incandescent bulbs, has apparently discontinued them and only has LED's. Sigh...
Posted by: Jen the original


As I've mentioned many times -- just go to Chinatown. At least around here (SF Bay Area), the Chinese-owned store sell normal incandescent bulbs, and nobody stops them from doing so. I can get incandescent bulbs whenever I want, even though they are "illegal."

Posted by: zombie at June 25, 2017 12:45 PM (DQ4Fv)

73 "WTC had an unusual design which made it susceptible to an attack by large jet craft. Totally foreseeable."

Osama bin Laden trained in civil engineering.

Posted by: torquewrench at June 25, 2017 12:46 PM (ujwCG)

74 LEDs are fine if you don't live in a lightning prone area like the SE. sure they last a long time unless they get a big voltage surge which knocks out that huge investment.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 12:47 PM (mpXpK)

75 Gotta give LED's credit. I like them.


Early whole house adopter, who has seen a significant downward spike in electrical consumption.

With no real alteration of usage patterns.


Now what is amazing me is those new ART Deco, or decorative retro look bulbs with the stylized globe, and filaments that are sometime two inches long. But...they are dimmable LEDs.

I love 'em.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 25, 2017 12:47 PM (J+eG2)

76 "The New York times knows these facts (that the
disaster was caused by re-covering the building to make is more
"sustainable" to meet climate change regulations), and yet produce this
lie-filled propaganda garbage.



Posted by: zombie"

The carbon footprint of the former residents has been dramatically reduced so it's all good with the left.

Posted by: Ripley at June 25, 2017 12:47 PM (MxEKc)

77 Yet they never go with the "environmental" aspect of this just the rich builders and developers...

Posted by: It's me donna at June 25, 2017 12:47 PM (O2RFr)

78 "The carbon footprint of the former residents has been dramatically reduced so it's all good with the left."

Good thing that the fire didn't release any carbon into the atmosphere.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 25, 2017 12:49 PM (J+eG2)

79 My first year of an engineering drafting course in 1979 ( I was Eric Stratton , pre-everything) , we were assigned a project to design safety features for a high rise. I ended up designing a center located spiral slide that traveled 3 stories at a time encased in asbestos infused concrete. I always think of that when discussing the WTC . Yeah it would have been destroyed and useless to anyone above the crash floors. There was an influx of products put on the market for high rise escape after 9/11.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 25, 2017 12:49 PM (IDPbH)

80 When subjected to a forensic metallurgical inspection, some of them were found to be out of spec.


I had occasion to speak with someone who looked at the steel under an electron microscope, and yes, the metal was out of spec. Not hugely, but there were impurities where there were not supposed to be any.

The person was not a structural engineer and had no ax to grind, but simply said it was not as pure as what it was supposed to be.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 12:49 PM (PduNE)

81 "Osama bin Laden trained in civil engineering."

My local civil engineering college is *awash* in Muslims...

Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 12:50 PM (ORmJ3)

82 I was reading the comments here as the building was burning.
A number of comments about how the building was going to collapse.
How long did it take before that happened?

Architects and Engineers on 911 is on you tube.
Or you can trust some construction engineer that was on tv because, as we all know, it's only over the last few years that the media has gone totally in the tank for the globalists and that the "deep state" didn't exist before barky came along.

Posted by: teej at June 25, 2017 12:51 PM (NUb9I)

83 CFLs suck donkey pud.
---
CFLs are only good in one instance.

If you put them in a fixture that is turned on ONCE and then turned off hours later, they're OK.

However, if they're in a light-- like in a bathroom-- that is turned on then off a lot, they'll die really, really early.

Posted by: Achmed, a Pieceful Muslim at June 25, 2017 12:51 PM (aT+Bx)

84 I think LEDs are the future of lighting. They are much more efficient than incandescents, so that's real progress. I haven't actually bought any yet, as I'm still working through my hoard of incandescent bulbs.

CFLs will one day be regarded as the eight-track tapes of lighting.

Posted by: rickl at June 25, 2017 12:51 PM (sdi6R)

85 Osama bin Laden trained in civil engineering.

Posted by: torquewrench at June 25, 2017 12:46 PM (ujwCG)

He bragged afterwards that he "knew" the towers would implode. I don't believe that, he was just "lucky" in that the destruction was so complete.

It's actually not known for certain if he had a degree in civil engineering as no one will say if he did indeed graduate from college. He has been said to have studied business, civil engineering, etc. but college was where he became so interested in religion and Islamic study.

So who knows.

Posted by: Jen the original at June 25, 2017 12:52 PM (tCSTx)

86 OOops.

Sock off.

Posted by: shibumi at June 25, 2017 12:52 PM (aT+Bx)

87 I hate CFLs, mostly because I've never seen them last as long as they claimed.

LEDs are fine with me, low heat, light is fine, and a lifespan that means I should never have to change them.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 25, 2017 12:53 PM (oVJmc)

88 Posted by: Jen the original at June 25, 2017 12:52 PM (tCSTx)

Didn't his family own construction companies? I think he knew how to build roads.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 25, 2017 12:53 PM (IDPbH)

89 One of the more fascinating things about the WTC collapse is how few bodies were found (just bone chips and fragments). It was the same thing with office equipment. Everything was ground to fragments and dust in that collapse.

But there were hundreds if not thousands of shoes found intact. Very strange what the forces that were unleashed that day did..

Posted by: Soona at June 25, 2017 12:54 PM (Fmupd)

90 "I haven't actually bought any yet, as I'm still working through my hoard of incandescent bulbs. "

If nothing else, buy two of them.

One for the front, and one for the back porch.

Those two will pay for themselves quickly due to being left on all night.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 25, 2017 12:54 PM (J+eG2)

91 I just discovered that Newcandescent, the company that bought all the light bulb patterns from GE and was producing rough service incandescent bulbs, has apparently discontinued them and only has LED's. Sigh...
Posted by: Jen the original
As I've mentioned many times -- just go to Chinatown. At least around here (SF Bay Area), the Chinese-owned store sell normal incandescent bulbs, and nobody stops them from
doing so. I can get incandescent bulbs whenever
I want, even though they are "illegal."
Posted by: zombie at June 25, 2017 12:45 PM (DQ4Fv)
Yup...I call it ghetto shopping. The Dollar Store, raghead mom and pop shops, the old Thai lady who used to be a whore but now has a knick knack shop. 100 watts old school bulbs, even 120 at times. I love sticking it to the green marxists. Plus I can pick up some purple drank and cigarillos while I am visiting.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 25, 2017 12:55 PM (5VlCp)

92 I used to design mechanical and electrical systems for commercial buildings, now I spend most of my time trying to comply with regulations, codes and LEED/green requirements and a little design work on the side. I'd estimate about 70% of the green/sustainability aspect is pure BS just meant as a smokescreen and keeps the bureaucrats and green raters happy. The other 30% are some good energy saving advances and ideas that most people would do anyway because, as it turns out, building owners actually don't like wasting energy (and money) as the left seems to believe.

Posted by: Ripley at June 25, 2017 12:55 PM (MxEKc)

93
Now now, you can't expect that regulations are also for the govt and the well connected. Those are only for the plebes.

Posted by: Mary Jo Kopechne at June 25, 2017 12:55 PM (r+sAi)

94 Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 25, 2017 12:54 PM (J+eG2)

That's what I've done. I also have one in the garage that hasn't been shut off in over a year.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 25, 2017 12:56 PM (IDPbH)

95
I just hit a CFL bulb with an infrared temp gauge and it's 130 degrees. A same brightness LED bulb was 80 degrees.

If air conditioning is an issue, LED's are significantly cooler.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 12:56 PM (PduNE)

96 If you put them in a fixture that is turned on ONCE and then turned off hours later, they're OK.

However, if they're in a light-- like in a bathroom-- that is turned on then off a lot, they'll die really, really early.


Posted by: Achmed

We use the CFL for a couple of lights that we have on timers. On at dusk, off around 11:30 pm.
Other then that, I can't see to read by them, and they provide crappy light for a large room.

Posted by: Bruce at June 25, 2017 12:57 PM (8ikIW)

97 Fire Codes and Building Codes are written in blood.

Posted by: rd at June 25, 2017 12:57 PM (4dz1m)

98 As I've mentioned many times -- just go to Chinatown. At least around here (SF Bay Area), the Chinese-owned store sell normal incandescent bulbs, and nobody stops them from doing so. I can get incandescent bulbs whenever I want, even though they are "illegal."
Posted by: zombie at June 25, 2017 12:45 PM (DQ4Fv)

You can order incandescent bulbs of all sorts and sizes from numerous online lighting supply stores, along with all the old school fluorescent light bulbs.

I need old school fluorescents for the garage, barn, etc. and the occasional incandescents for specific areas of our property and order them online. The Newcandscent company was featured five or six years ago on Rush, and the bulbs were made in NJ at their little plant. They would send your order, each bulb in it's cardboard closed box, with a spare box full of tiny wrapped tootsie rolls as a thank you.

Good old American manufacturing and service. Yes, they were three dollars a bulb, but worth it if you wanted them.

Sad to see that end.

Posted by: Jen the original at June 25, 2017 12:58 PM (tCSTx)

99 Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 12:56 PM (PduNE)

Big advantage of LED TVs.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 25, 2017 12:58 PM (IDPbH)

100 I'd estimate about 70% of the green/sustainability
aspect is pure BS just meant as a smokescreen and keeps the bureaucrats
and green raters happy. The other 30% are some good energy saving
advances and ideas that most people would do anyway because, as it turns
out, building owners actually don't like wasting energy (and money) as
the left seems to believe. Posted by: Ripley at June 25, 2017 12:55 PM (MxEKc)
=====

^^^THIS^^^

Who really wants to be wasteful: nobody.

Posted by: mustbequantum at June 25, 2017 12:58 PM (MIKMs)

101 I used to design mechanical and electrical systems for commercial buildings, now I spend most of my time trying to comply with regulations, codes and LEED/green requirements and a little design work on the side. I'd estimate about 70% of the green/sustainability aspect is pure BS just meant as a smokescreen and keeps the bureaucrats and green raters happy. The other 30% are some good energy saving advances and ideas that most people would do anyway because, as it turns out, building owners actually don't like wasting energy (and money) as the left seems to believe.
Posted by: Ripley at June




usually tenants do not really care about the energy costs nearly as much as the landlords.

Posted by: yankeefifth at June 25, 2017 12:59 PM (0wem/)

102 Reynolds made a FIRE RESISTANT cladding panel.

It wasn't used because it wasn't as energy efficient as the flammable foam filled panel.

Posted by: rd at June 25, 2017 12:59 PM (4dz1m)

103 Time for some new bumper stickers:

Green Technology Kills


and


Progressive Politics Kill

Posted by: naturalfake at June 25, 2017 12:59 PM (9q7Dl)

104 "That's what I've done. I also have one in the garage that hasn't been shut off in over a year."

There are times that Mrs VIA has mentioned me leaving a light on that isn't needed.



PFFTT....it's only 9 watts isn't really a well thought out response on my part.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 25, 2017 01:00 PM (J+eG2)

105 Whether they used polystyrene or polyethylene as the filler between the AL sheeting as cladding, either is flammable once they get hot enough. They could have used regular fiberglass batting, and that would have been safe to use. But much weightier. Probably a lot more expensive.

There are fire retardant additives that could have been added to the cladding filler such as aluminum oxide hydrate, and it is cheap but it takes a lot of it and it is heavy.

But what they actually did was strap gasoline to the building.

Posted by: GnuBreed at June 25, 2017 01:00 PM (6jaju)

106 "My local civil engineering college is *awash* in Muslims..."

Several American universities found themselves with a dearth of citizen applicants for their nuclear engineering programs, after it had become clear that the ecoholic left were successfully lawfaring civilian nuclear power out of existence in the States.

Desperate to keep the programs running, the deans of engineering at those schools instead filled up all those nuclear-engineering seats with eager Iranian applicants.

Not that there would be any grounds to question that concept.

Posted by: torquewrench at June 25, 2017 01:01 PM (ujwCG)

107 I don't leave my porch lights on at night, but I actually have a few CFLs in lamps that I leave on when I'm away from home. I bought them years before they were mandated.

Posted by: rickl at June 25, 2017 01:01 PM (sdi6R)

108 I'm one of those who has a couple of hundred old light bulbs in the garage. The new LEDs are fine, but us hicks out here in the country don't just use light bulbs to give our water pipes mood lighting or let our animals read late into the night.

Light bulbs = cheap, easy, safe heat.

Posted by: Hate Has No Homo at June 25, 2017 01:01 PM (c2K1w)

109 Who really wants to be wasteful: nobody.
---

We're OK with it. You see, if we don't spend the money, we won't get as much next year.

Also, we're looking to purchase a $1,000 hammer. And a $20,000 toilet.

Posted by: U.S. Government at June 25, 2017 01:02 PM (aT+Bx)

110 Posted by: naturalfake at June 25, 2017 12:59 PM (9q7Dl)

The bumper sticker I want comes in a series. ' If you have____, thank a Liberal'

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 25, 2017 01:02 PM (IDPbH)

111 Another thing about LEDs is that our local electric utility subsidizes the cost of certain bulbs.

I suppose the reduction in load demands over time makes that a winning position for the utilities.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 25, 2017 01:02 PM (oVJmc)

112 Almost forgot.

We replaced all our 120volt patio lights with LEDs as well . Nine 75 watt bulbs can gulp some electrons.

Now?

81Watts total for all of them.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 25, 2017 01:02 PM (J+eG2)

113 Perhaps I missed it but nowhere in the article did I see the word "Green".

Posted by: Javems at June 25, 2017 01:02 PM (yOqwj)

114 Mercedes, Audi and other German auto manufacturers have been experimenting for a few years with a new type of "green" air conditioning fluid. It is supposedly more friendly to the environment than current fluids.

Only downside is that it too is highly flammable which means that minor accidents can now turn cars into Car-B-Qs if the fluid leaks onto a hot engine.

If they go ahead with this new fluid, expect to see cars with mandatory fire suppression systems which likely won't be green and will add $$ to the price of each car.

Liberals. Is there anything they can't screw up?

Posted by: JackStraw at June 25, 2017 01:03 PM (/tuJf)

115 Light bulbs = cheap, easy, safe heat.
=====

EasyBake Ovens hardest hit.

Posted by: mustbequantum at June 25, 2017 01:04 PM (MIKMs)

116 Sadly, 'twas Ever Thus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RicaXxiU1WM

Posted by: jic at June 25, 2017 01:04 PM (d1OeB)

117 "Liberals. Is there anything they can't screw up?"

Islam


They don't seem to have effected it at all.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 25, 2017 01:04 PM (J+eG2)

118 Didn't his family own construction companies? I think he knew how to build roads.
Posted by: Jack Sock at June 25, 2017 12:53 PM (IDPbH)

Yes, his dad was a mega builder in Saudi Arabia. His mother, LOL, was the tenth wife of his father, who obviously had a harem and bin Ladin has a huge number of half siblings, and I think had four of five full siblings.

Story was that Bin Ladin had his own construction company after college, but again, his focus was on becoming a muhajideen in Afghanistan and living the jihadi lifestyle.

Oh, and I believe he had half a dozen wives also.

Posted by: Jen the original at June 25, 2017 01:05 PM (tCSTx)

119 "filled up all those nuclear-engineering seats with eager Iranian applicants."

Fun fact. The guy in charge of the (small) Nuclear Engineering program at that same school is Iranian. So is the EE department deputy chair, now that I think about it...

Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 01:05 PM (ORmJ3)

120 I haven't been keeping up with the light bulb stuff, I stocked up on incandescents years ago, when that meddling s.o.b. in the Bush II admin put the hex on them.

And then CA banned 75 and 100 watt incandescents.
The week after, what were in the stores?

74 and 96 watt incandescents.

Posted by: navybrat at June 25, 2017 01:07 PM (w7KSn)

121 Fucking rich people. They ruin everything. Wish everyone was poor. Life would be so much more fulfilling. I'd be able to keep my 70" flat screen tho, right?

Posted by: MSTisdale at June 25, 2017 01:07 PM (g9d8D)

122 Cover story at The Times:
Can Trump Destroy Obama's Legacy?
The president seems determined to undo what his predecessor did.

Yep. That Bannon whiteboard was a To Do list.

Posted by: Ignoramus at June 25, 2017 01:07 PM (pV/54)

123 121 Fucking rich people. They ruin everything. Wish everyone was poor. Life would be so much more fulfilling. I'd be able to keep my 70" flat screen tho, right?
Posted by: MSTisdale at June 25, 2017 01:07 PM (g9d8D)

I think you meant ' fucking rich liberal people'.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 25, 2017 01:08 PM (IDPbH)

124
I love the LED's in the kitchen because I used to be able to feel the heat from them on my scalp from a foot and a half to two feet away. No longer.

It was okay in the winter, but the last thing I want in the summer. They don't take to dimming way down, but in the kitchen it's a pretty binary thing.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 01:08 PM (PduNE)

125 Not to mention I've seen heat tape burn down waaaay too many things to put it in my well house. Pump and pipe repairs in 5 degree weather? No thanks, I'm fine. I'll just use this old light bulb.

Posted by: Hate Has No Homo at June 25, 2017 01:08 PM (c2K1w)

126 I suppose someone should fix the spelling of the word "government" in the headline before someone reads it as an unintended meaning...

Posted by: navybrat at June 25, 2017 01:08 PM (w7KSn)

127 Regarding the exploding fridge, the Greenfell Tower Action Group blog has several posts about dangerous power surges that have wracked the building over the years. There was one that took about appliances in over 30 apartments in 2013.

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2013/06/10/why-are-we-waiting/

It was a 1970s era building, I wouldn't be surprised if they used crappy aluminum wiring in the building.

Posted by: FarkinClownshoes at June 25, 2017 01:09 PM (X3ClC)

128 >>> It's actually not known for certain if he had a degree in civil engineering as no one will say if he did indeed graduate from college.

"Didn't his family own construction companies? I think he knew how to build roads."

OBL is generally credited with having laid out the original design of the cave-bunker complex at Tora Bora, and overseeing its initial construction, during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. He then later expanded and modified the design in the interwar years.

It was a tough nut to crack, when it was finally attacked.

Posted by: torquewrench at June 25, 2017 01:10 PM (ujwCG)

129 I like LEDs. I'm not so stubborn that I can't see better technology when it's introduced. And LEDs are better technology than incandescents.

Posted by: Soona at June 25, 2017 01:12 PM (Fmupd)

130 Another thing about LEDs is that our local electric utility subsidizes the cost of certain bulbs.

I suppose the reduction in load demands over time makes that a winning position for the utilities.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 25, 2017 01:02 PM (oVJmc)

Ah yes, Our electric company has become worse than the environazi's for wanting you to cut consumption of their product. The CEO is a huge environazi and my guess that is how the greens plan to continue their worship of gaia is by planting as many of their bretheren in the utility companies as possible.

I get constantly harassed about how much electric usage I have compared to the neighbors, etc. Reports are sent via snail mail to me monthly, which is a total waste of paper, fuel and time.

Constantly wanting me to have one of their
green experts out to assess my home usage and suggest ways to cut down on energy usage.

Of course, to change out all of my fluorescents to LED's would create a financial cost that wouldn't be paid back for a couple of decades, but hey, I could stand proud.

Our electric provider also is determined to close any and all coal fired plants they own, despite the fact that the state is not asking them to do so. They just want to do it because, as I pointed out, many on the BOD for DTE are green Nazi's as is the CEO.

Posted by: Jen the original at June 25, 2017 01:12 PM (tCSTx)

131 It was a tough nut to crack, when it was finally attacked

---------------

Tactical nuke would've done the job nicely.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 25, 2017 01:13 PM (kTF2Z)

132 Overall, I am happy with the cheaper bills with the CFL bulbs (can't afford the LEDs yet), but in the colder climes, they are not very good. Makes me nuts that people who live in an area that never experiences subzero temps are mandating, regulating, and legislating nonsense for people who live colder.

Posted by: mustbequantum at June 25, 2017 01:13 PM (MIKMs)

133 GREENPEACE Is marketing the "Greenfreeze" refrigerators using the potentially explosive refrigerant.

The pentane or propane refrigerant is efficient, and is not as bad a "greenhouse gas" as non flammable CFCs like Freon.

Works fine, until you get a leak. If the pentane leaks into your kitchen, no problem! The air dilutes the gas, and there is nothing to burn or explode.

If it leaks into the refrigerator? You get a nice fuel air mixture, just like a FAE bomb. Combine that with a cheap thermostat INSIDE the refrigerator that sparks everytime it turns off the compressor,

BOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!

Happens a few times a month with these wonderful refrigerators.

They make intrisically safe thermostats, that don't spark. They can design thermostats, so there are no electric motor contactors inside the refrigerator. That all costs money, it might be $2-$5 per unit. That $2.00 might lose them the government bid!

Just like the flammable cladding. Non flammable, rock wool insulated cladding was available. It wasn't as efficient, it wasn't as cheap. Guess what the government specifies?

Government is a killer.

Do not get me started on the horrors of British National Health Service. Euthanasia by neglect.

Posted by: rd at June 25, 2017 01:14 PM (4dz1m)

134 >>I like LEDs. I'm not so stubborn that I can't see better technology when it's introduced. And LEDs are better technology than incandescents.

Which is fine. That's how it's supposed to work, better technology replacing inferior technology.

What's not supposed to happen is government mandating it.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 25, 2017 01:15 PM (/tuJf)

135 "And LEDs are better technology than incandescents."

Then why the need for government-imposed mandates.

GE is my most hated company, going back to Jack Welch -- the first celebrity CEO and the king of outsourcing.

Posted by: Ignoramus at June 25, 2017 01:15 PM (pV/54)

136 @130,

Same thing here. This house was rebuilt in 2006 due to a fire. It's better insulated than the neighbors. It has electric hest and an electric dryer. I run two Austin Air HEPA filters, which is probably what they object to. And we use fans, not airconditioning.

I lived without electricity for eight years and I get real tired of being told how to use it by a bunch of folks that have always had it.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at June 25, 2017 01:17 PM (Lqy/e)

137 Posted by: navybrat at June 25, 2017 01:08 PM (w7KSn)

I would love to claim that it was done in jest, but it was simple dumbassery.

Fixed.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 01:18 PM (wYseH)

138 120
I haven't been keeping up with the light bulb stuff, I stocked up on
incandescents years ago, when that meddling s.o.b. in the Bush II admin
put the hex on them.



And then CA banned 75 and 100 watt incandescents.

The week after, what were in the stores?



74 and 96 watt incandescents.

Posted by: navybrat at June 25, 2017 01:07 PM (w7KSn)

That wasn't the bush admin. It was Kate Upton's uncle who is a Senator

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 01:20 PM (mpXpK)

139 Posted by GnuBreed

*******

I was on a crew years ago retrofitting a 5-story office bld in Phoenix. Some guys pulling the coating off the exterior balcony areas from concrete and pipe decided one day to try torching it from hard to reach areas. Thankfully the interior had been gutted and it was all concrete & brick because the batting lit like it was soaked in gas.

Posted by: MSTisdale at June 25, 2017 01:20 PM (g9d8D)

140
135 "And LEDs are better technology than incandescents."

Then why the need for government-imposed mandates.

GE is my most hated company, going back to Jack Welch -- the first celebrity CEO and the king of outsourcing.
Posted by: Ignoramus at June 25, 2017 01:15 PM (pV/54)

------------

The mandates were for CFL lighting, not LEDs. LEDs didn't really hit the public market until a few years after congress passed the bill against incandescents.

LEDs are a product of non-government enterprise.

Posted by: Soona at June 25, 2017 01:22 PM (Fmupd)

141 Ah yes, Our electric company has become worse than
the environazi's for wanting you to cut consumption of their product.
The CEO is a huge environazi and my guess that is how the greens plan to
continue their worship of gaia is by planting as many of their
bretheren in the utility companies as possible.



I get constantly harassed about how much electric usage I have
compared to the neighbors, etc. Reports are sent via snail mail to me
monthly, which is a total waste of paper, fuel and time.



Constantly wanting me to have one of their
green experts out to assess my home usage and suggest ways to cut down on energy usage.




Posted by: Jen the original at June 25, 2017 01:12 PM (tCSTx)
..

Lemme guess: you have SCE?

I still get those mildly condescending, harassing emails, even though after buying a new fridge and replacing all the lights in my house with LEDs, they still claim I'm using "60% more than my neighbors", even though my electric bill is at least 30% lower than last year for the same month.

Posted by: Spiny Norman at June 25, 2017 01:22 PM (U3sWw)

142 Happened on Bush II's watch, he could have stopped it.

Posted by: navybrat at June 25, 2017 01:23 PM (w7KSn)

143 Fred Upton was a Representative.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 25, 2017 01:23 PM (kTF2Z)

144 I lived without electricity for eight years and I
get real tired of being told how to use it by a bunch of folks that have
always had it.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at June 25, 2017 01:17 PM (Lqy/e)

I swapped my incandescents in the kitchen for dimmable LEDs once they became reasonably priced. I like the reduction in heat in the summer, and I prefer the slightly different color. Also, the kitchen lights are on all of the time, so I like not having to change them regularly.

I wrote the installation date on every LED, so when they burn out before the stated life, I will be getting free ones.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 01:26 PM (wYseH)

145 There are LED alternatives for halogen bulbs, too, which I am grateful for because I HATE halogen bulbs and my wife came home with a halogen fixture for the hallway the other day.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 25, 2017 01:26 PM (oVJmc)

146 Melanie Phillips wrote an excellent summation of what is ailing Britain and America politcialy.

--
In both America and Britain people are now murmuring about civil war

Theres a long way to go before that becomes a real possibility. The fact people are talking about it at all though shows what a dangerous moment this is.

On both sides of the pond a titanic struggle to the death is under way for the soul of the West.

I think it fits with what many of us have been witnessing. and a good explanation I especially like her terminology "political depravity. she mentions The towering inferno and its usefulness.
and the lefts ongoing propaganda.

so I hope everyone checks it out.
Melanie phillips writes "As I see it"

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 01:27 PM (v12G8)

147 The Green-Fell Towering Inferno of Gaea worship. The dirty truth is going Green kills people, but then it's better they "die and decrease the surplus population."

Posted by: geoffb5 at June 25, 2017 01:27 PM (d3wbb)

148 ugh, pixy, , had to remove every comma and period to make a go of it.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 01:27 PM (v12G8)

149 Melanie Phillips wrote this commentary at @jeruslam post

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 01:28 PM (v12G8)

150 I'd be shocked if the power companies' LED subsidies don't have the governments hand pushing them.

Posted by: Hate Has No Homo at June 25, 2017 01:28 PM (c2K1w)

151 >>I still get those mildly condescending, harassing emails, even though after buying a new fridge and replacing all the lights in my house with LEDs, they still claim I'm using "60% more than my neighbors", even though my electric bill is at least 30% lower than last year for the same month.

I hate those letters. What they fail to take into consideration is that about half my neighborhood is vacation homes meaning there is nobody in the house for lots of the year and I work at home and they don't.

They should give me an award for paying a higher bill not a wagging finger.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 25, 2017 01:28 PM (/tuJf)

152 7,
"That type of cladding is banned in the US by the building codes."

It is banned for buildings higher that two stories.

Posted by: geoffb5 at June 25, 2017 01:30 PM (d3wbb)

153 "In both America and Britain people are now murmuring about civil war"

In Britain? I've not heard that. What do they intend to fight with? Sticks? Even knives are banned in that place.

Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 01:31 PM (ORmJ3)

154 140
135 "And LEDs are better technology than incandescents."

Then why the need for government-imposed mandates.

GE is my most hated company, going back to Jack Welch -- the first celebrity CEO and the king of outsourcing.
Posted by: Ignoramus at June 25, 2017 01:15 PM (pV/54)

------------

The mandates were for CFL lighting, not LEDs. LEDs didn't really hit the public market until a few years after congress passed the bill against incandescents.

LEDs are a product of non-government enterprise.
Posted by: Soona at June 25, 2017 01:22 PM (Fmupd)

That's a good point.

Posted by: charleyhorse at June 25, 2017 01:32 PM (+kahX)

155 >>Do not get me started on the horrors of British National Health Service. Euthanasia by neglect.

Ain't got shit on us!

Posted by: The VA at June 25, 2017 01:33 PM (/Nite)

156 Apostate, one can wonder. they seem to have the same dilemma as we do , how to fight legally while being shoved into hell.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 01:33 PM (v12G8)

157 Builders in Britain were allowed to wrap residential apartment towers -- perhaps several hundred of them -- from top to bottom in highly flammable materials

As long as they're all located in no-go zones, I consider that to be a good thing.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at June 25, 2017 01:33 PM (xAvrH)

158 anyway srsly she articulates the wests struggle well.
please read it.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 01:33 PM (v12G8)

159 *points to #84*

Posted by: rickl at June 25, 2017 01:34 PM (sdi6R)

160 They should give me an award for paying a higher bill not a wagging finger.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 25, 2017 01:28 PM (/tuJf)

The constant nagging from our betters.

My mom's house is empty. The stupid fucks assumed the meter was broken so they just extrapolated to some reasonable rate of consumption. And then they sent one of those letters about how much of a Gaia hater my mom is....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 01:34 PM (wYseH)

161 Builders in Britain were allowed to wrap residential apartment towers
-- perhaps several hundred of them -- from top to bottom in highly
flammable materials


So, basically, ISIS could burn down a high rise with a single road flare.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 25, 2017 01:34 PM (oVJmc)

162 In Britain? I've not heard that. What do they intend to fight with? Sticks? Even knives are banned in that place.
Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 01:31 PM (ORmJ3)

But the Government does not have much of a military to suppress insurrection there either...

Posted by: Don Q., at June 25, 2017 01:35 PM (NgKpN)

163 ok i'll ask CBD to read it If he already hasnt' and ask him iff he is willing to expound on it..

hears click of the ignore feature.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 01:36 PM (v12G8)

164 (like this will work)

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 01:37 PM (v12G8)

165 So.... no mention that the CAUSE of the fire, was because of the EU's government regulated Coolant in a refrigerator?

So the Cause, which is of course too much regulation... but now they blame not enough regulation?

1984

Posted by: Don Q., at June 25, 2017 01:37 PM (NgKpN)

166 24,

"On the 2nd floor. Of an Army building. Without an elevator."

My wife is in a wheelchair, I once booked a handicap accessible hotel room where it turned out to be on the 2nd floor of a place with no elevators. Canceled when we got there and saw it and booked another room at a different hotel.

BTW the only public bathrooms we can use are the ones called "family bathrooms" since I have to assist her.

Posted by: geoffb5 at June 25, 2017 01:37 PM (d3wbb)

167
I have something more than 150 light bulbs in my house. Screw the utility company, I'm not changing them all. But where it makes sense, and the pay-back is the fastest, I have changed.

I'm not replacing a broom closet light bulb (75 incandescent) with an LED that gets turned on for maybe ten minutes a week. Not until I get my 2,000th hour out of it.

But if you have a series of light-bulbs fifteen feet off the ground and they're incandescent, save yourself future ladder work and replace 'em all with LED's and end that job forever.

Also, the utility company energy comparison flyer. They have three categories; your usage, your neighbors average usage, and the 'most efficient homes'. I use less than neighbors, but there's no way anyone hits the 'most efficient homes' numbers. That's pure bullshit based on government predictions of usage, which seems to be based on people who neither cook, clean, shower, or wash their clothes.

Although, come to think of it -- that might describe some democrats in the 'base'.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 01:38 PM (PduNE)

168 >>So, basically, ISIS could burn down a high rise with a single road flare.


Posted by: Mr. Peebles

Ha, those road flares aren't cheap. We'll send Achmed with a Bic lighter over to handle the job.

Posted by: ISIS at June 25, 2017 01:38 PM (/Nite)

169 >>The constant nagging from our betters.

Massachusetts was one of if not the first state to go with a full smoking ban in public buildings. The only exception? Why the State House of course.

I was doing some work in the building at the time and it was not uncommon at all to see and sell cigar smoke wafting through the halls.

Liberals are the very definition of hypocrites.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 25, 2017 01:39 PM (/tuJf)

170 Those of you on the morning threads know of my deep dive into insanity with green energy vs brown energy and the enabling legislation for small towns who join a coop to lower prices and then pay higher prices because green.

But we get Renewable Energy Certificates for our goodness.

God save the mark.

Posted by: mustbequantum at June 25, 2017 01:40 PM (MIKMs)

171 hears click of the ignore feature.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 01:36 PM (v12G

It's an excellent editorial.

http://tinyurl.com/ybdjp2ts

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 01:43 PM (wYseH)

172 Since it's a new day, I'll ask this again.

Does anyone here know anything about real, no-shit penetration hacking? I had an interesting conversation last week and would like to hear from someone in that game, if possible.

Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 01:43 PM (ORmJ3)

173 "Also, the utility company energy comparison flyer. They have three categories; your usage, your neighbors average usage, and the 'most efficient homes'. I use less than neighbors, but there's no way anyone hits the 'most efficient homes' numbers. That's pure bullshit based on government predictions of usage, which seems to be based on people who neither cook, clean, shower, or wash their clothes. "

BGE sends me one every month extolling my excessive electrical usage.

Total LED lighting
Every appliance, heating and A/C are high efficiency.
Reinsulated walls and attic.
Every window is high efficiency
Awnings around all windows in summer


For a conservative, I'm a pretty green minded MoFo.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 25, 2017 01:44 PM (J+eG2)

174 Oh, in case anybody didn't know, little Billy (Bomber) Ayers is a trust fund baby from Commonwealth Edison's CEO.

Posted by: mustbequantum at June 25, 2017 01:45 PM (MIKMs)

175 Radicals like Ayers are invariably born well-off.

Posted by: Ignoramus at June 25, 2017 01:46 PM (pV/54)

176 "Tactical nuke would've done the job nicely [at Tora Bora]."

However.

The senior Delta commander on scene requested an air drop of gator mines to prevent bin Laden and his lieutenants from exfiltrating on foot out the back side of the bunker complex.

Dubya Bush refused to authorize even that.

Posted by: torquewrench at June 25, 2017 01:47 PM (ujwCG)

177 >>So, basically, ISIS could burn down a high rise with a single road flare.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles

Ha, those road flares aren't cheap. We'll send Achmed with a Bic lighter over to handle the job.

Posted by: ISIS


No problem, as long as they keep it to their own neighborhoods, like BLM does.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at June 25, 2017 01:47 PM (xAvrH)

178 The world has a fever and we have to DO something, other wise we might lose our phony baloney jobs! I've got it! Let's ban incandescent light bulbs. Sure, it will inconvenience millions, but it jus might reduce the global temp by .00000001 degrees by 2070. Even better is that none of us will be alive then so we can't be held accountable. Genius!

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 25, 2017 01:47 PM (kTF2Z)

179 Lemme guess: you have SCE?
Posted by: Spiny Norman at June 25, 2017 01:22 PM (U3sWw)

No Detroit Edison. They are not only my electric provider, but they also own the natural gas company, who they bought about a decade ago.

The handle all the power and gas needs for a good chunk of Southeast Michigan. It also has a large portfolio of secondary businesses in the energy sector that provides energy related services and commodities to many other states in the USA.

You all might be surprised to find your state receives services from them, all the way to CA.

https://www.newlook.dteenergy.com/wps/wcm/connect/dte-web/home/about-dte/common/about-dte/about-dte

Posted by: Jen the original at June 25, 2017 01:47 PM (tCSTx)

180 If anybody in the Horde knew about hacking, we'd have hacked pixyware into something resembling 21st century software.



(I keed, I keed)

Posted by: rickl at June 25, 2017 01:47 PM (sdi6R)

181
I've gone on tirades in the past to cut electric usage, looked at my bill the next month and smiled. Then a couple months later, the bill is back to where it was, but I have a brand new meter hung on the side of the house. On the ground in front of the new meter are the old security clips.

It's like they have a supply of 'hot' meters ready to install if someones usage dips.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 01:48 PM (PduNE)

182 Charlie Brown, I also think this sentence ;'The result of all this turmoil is that the revolutionary Left thinks its moment has come".
is a great short explanation of what total insanity we are witnessing now.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 01:49 PM (v12G8)

183 172 Since it's a new day, I'll ask this again.

Does anyone here know anything about real, no-shit penetration hacking? I had an interesting conversation last week and would like to hear from someone in that game, if possible.
Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 01:43 PM (ORmJ3)

-----------

You're wanting a hacker to admit he's a hacker on this blog?

Good luck with that.

Posted by: Soona at June 25, 2017 01:49 PM (Fmupd)

184 or microcosm

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 01:49 PM (v12G8)

185 183 172 Since it's a new day, I'll ask this again.

Does anyone here know anything about real, no-shit penetration hacking? I had an interesting conversation last week and would like to hear from someone in that game, if possible.
Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 01:43 PM (ORmJ3)

-----------

You're wanting a hacker to admit he's a hacker on this blog?

Good luck with that.
Posted by: Soona at June 25, 2017 01:49 PM (Fmupd)

Yeah.... I used to know a hacker, but I lost his contact information in the Great Canoe incident right before I moved to California.... amazing what all I lost....

Posted by: Don Q., at June 25, 2017 01:51 PM (NgKpN)

186 The thing that has always got me about that incandescent light bulb ban was what they actually expected in energy savings. The lighting usage in your home is inconsequential compared to the other loads.


You may burn 1 or 2 100 light bulbs for a couple of hours a day. Maybe 1 or 2 KW over a month. Your hot water heat and A/C (or heat pump) soak it up by the ton. Changing out an incandescent bulb for a CFL really doesn't save shit. The whole thing is a FARCE.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 01:51 PM (mpXpK)

187 What did you want to know, Apostate?

Posted by: Bob from NSA at June 25, 2017 01:53 PM (kTF2Z)

188 And besides that, ALL residential usage is a piss in the ocean compared to industrial and commercial.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 01:54 PM (mpXpK)

189 >>In Britain? I've not heard that. What do they intend to fight with? Sticks? Even knives are banned in that place.


Cars and football hooligans? I have no idea...

https://twitter.com/OnlineMagazin/status/878625347755028481

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y8s434xg

Posted by: Lizzy at June 25, 2017 01:54 PM (NOIQH)

190 Charlie Brown, I also think this sentence ;'The result of all this turmoil is that the revolutionary Left thinks its moment has come".
is a great short explanation of what total insanity we are witnessing now.

Posted by: willow


I think the same is true of Muslims in western countries. Think of all the attacks in recent years, by people "whose motives will never be known".

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at June 25, 2017 01:55 PM (xAvrH)

191 okay. i figured it out. long time readers of this site may recall moby dick commenting on a different subject (whaling for lamp oil): "bring it".

well, when sanders and warren et al say the obamacare replacement bill is blood for a tax cut for there rich, i say "bring it".

this is not a law for the rich. the rich will be able to afford health insurance regardless of single payer, obamacare or the status quo ante. this is about the middle class. the republicans are the party of the middle class. the dems are for gutting the middle class to fund the poor (while they're in bed with the rich).

proof: the trump election, but moreso, every election over the past 8 years. reps dominate because they're the party of the middle class.

that is what must be emphasized.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at June 25, 2017 01:55 PM (WTSFk)

192 Changing out an incandescent bulb for a CFL really doesn't save shit. The whole thing is a FARCE. Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 01:51 PM (mpXpK)
=====

Yeah. Went from five people with daily showers, laundry, toilets, etc. to one. Sewer and water bills went up.

Posted by: mustbequantum at June 25, 2017 01:55 PM (MIKMs)

193 188 And besides that, ALL residential usage is a piss in the ocean compared to industrial and commercial.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 01:54 PM (mpXpK)

----------------

If it saves even one spotted owl...

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 25, 2017 01:56 PM (kTF2Z)

194 Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 01:51 PM (mpXpK)

This is fairly accurate.
Though, as CBD noted, the swapping for LEDs has made my rooms a lot colder. (My old bedroom was a whacky shape and took 7 light bulbs across 2 lamps to light well, even at 75 watt bulbs they produced an uncomfortable level of heat in the summer and the AC sucked at getting up to the second floor on the far side of the house from it.)

I sprung for a couple of smart bulbs because it was actually cheaper than rewiring the house for a dimmer switch. Also my daughter loves playing with the color change feature, and no joke she's been learning colors with it.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at June 25, 2017 01:56 PM (dzmBR)

195 Steve as they and the left are again aligned together (see Nazi and Imans back in the day)no real surprise , Eh?

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 01:56 PM (v12G8)

Posted by: Javems at June 25, 2017 01:56 PM (yOqwj)

197 >>And besides that, ALL residential usage is a piss in the ocean compared to industrial and commercial.


Hollywood
*mic drop*

Posted by: Lizzy at June 25, 2017 01:56 PM (NOIQH)

198 Oh, don't you get it? The government role was fine. It's just that the wrong people were in charge. That's always the answer.

(Why isn't it ever said that the companies were OK, but the wrong people were in the boardroom?)

Posted by: George LeS at June 25, 2017 01:57 PM (+TcCF)

199
that is what must be emphasized.
Posted by: musical jolly chimp at June 25, 2017 01:55 PM (WTSFk)

+

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 01:58 PM (v12G8)

200 Sometime ago my local Walmart had 60 watt equivalent LED bulbs for $1.97 for a pak of 4. That's when I changed almost every bulb over except for the frig and stove which need incandescents and the 40 watt tubes that light most of the basement and my workshop there.

Posted by: geoffb5 at June 25, 2017 01:58 PM (d3wbb)

201 Results of a comprehensive engineering study of the WTC damages and collapses is here:

http://tinyurl.com/yabthyvs

Summary paper of the thousands of report pages is here.

http://tinyurl.com/j226akx

Concise list of reasons for the collapses is in Chapter 8. I cannot copy and paste from the NIST pdf files for an unknown reason. Bottom Line: The towers collapsed due to a combination of structural damage by the aircraft impacts, fire, and aircraft impact-caused loss of fire protection materials on the steel. A similar fire, alone, would likely NOT have resulted in collapses, per the report.


Posted by: Gref at June 25, 2017 01:58 PM (AMIL/)

202 155 >>Do not get me started on the horrors of British National Health Service. Euthanasia by neglect.

Ain't got shit on us!
Posted by: The VA at June 25, 2017 01:33 PM (/Nite)

---

Heh.

Posted by: SMFH at June 25, 2017 01:59 PM (s5Kql)

203 "You're wanting a hacker to admit he's a hacker on this blog?"

Why would that be a special problem? White hats and CEHs are a thing.

"What did you want to know, Apostate?"

What programming and other computer science knowledge is necessary to be successful. I've received a very tempting offer to wade into computer security, but I wonder about prerequisites.

My background includes Army CI and electrical engineering, but mostly analog and hardware. I know some C, but have only programmed .exe files and microcontrollers.

I was assured that this would be sufficient, but that might be recruiting fluff. The guy is extremely interested in me, and might be waving away concerns to boost my confidence or interest.

Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 01:59 PM (ORmJ3)

204 I blame the rise of environmentalism on the GOP.

Posted by: Under Fire at June 25, 2017 02:00 PM (l4aLi)

205 Posted by: Gref at June 25, 2017 01:58 PM

Wikipedia's summary agrees. The floor joist softening played a role, but was facilitated by the actual structural damage caused by the airplanes to the outer support beams.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at June 25, 2017 02:00 PM (dzmBR)

206 re the VA, I think while federal malfeasance is likely an issue , I have found it can be also a local issue. Some VAs take care of their people , some do not.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:01 PM (v12G8)

207 smfh, kissy face and hugs, life is doing ok I hope?

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:01 PM (v12G8)

208 Fortunately willow, the one I go to is a good one.

Posted by: SMFH at June 25, 2017 02:01 PM (s5Kql)

209 Wasn't this government housing? Didn't government employees write the spec, put out the bids, and oversee the construction? I'm failing to see how "business", in any form, is to blame.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 25, 2017 02:02 PM (LTHVh)

210 >>(Why isn't it ever said that the companies were OK, but the wrong people were in the boardroom?)

Oh, it's said. Not often listened to but it is most definitely said.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 25, 2017 02:03 PM (/tuJf)

211 It's fair to middlin', willow

How are you doing?

Posted by: SMFH at June 25, 2017 02:03 PM (s5Kql)

212 ALL residential usage is a piss in the ocean compared to industrial and commercial.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 01:54 PM (mpXpK)

I used to see the power bill for my old company. One building (out of thousands across the country) used about 1000KW/hr

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 02:03 PM (wYseH)

213 This happened because Trump lied to all perons of coler. We demand Presdent Obama arrest Trump now for his crimes against pesons of all colors.

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT at June 25, 2017 02:03 PM (WmgTn)

214 Steve as they and the left are again aligned together (see Nazi and Imans back in the day)no real surprise , Eh?

Posted by: willow


Nope. It's the only thing that explains why, after each terrorist attack, the left has gotten more of a hard on to import as many Muslims as possible.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at June 25, 2017 02:04 PM (xAvrH)

215 I want my - I want my-light decisions left to me.

lights fireplace to weenie roast. (not really) I can't afford my electric bill to cool the house as it is.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:04 PM (v12G8)

216 191,

The merchant class, aka the bourgeois, aka "the rich", are what we now call the upper middle class and consist mostly of small business persons and degree-ed professionals.

The workers would mostly be in the lower middle class.

The wealthy are the upper class and would be defined not so much by income as by their means of earning it which is through invested funds.

The lower class would be those whose earnings are all spent to meet the basic necessities of life and so have a hand to mouth existence.

One thing both middle classes have in common is the dream of moving up. The wealthy wish to hold onto what they have and fear its loss. The lower class dream to of moving up but can also be roused to envy and resentment of those better off by demagogues.

The fusion of interests of the wealthy and the lower class is made by those who wish to move up by gaining power as opposed to earning money though power will get you money too.

The wealthy fear being dethroned by the upper middle moving up and shaking up the foundations of wealth. The Democrats have come to power by making deals with both the wealthy and the lower class. They will, for a price, provide security for the wealthy and buy off the lower class with money taken mostly from the upper middle but also from the lower middle too.

This bargain started in the 30s as a way to keep the lower class from embracing the lure of the then new socialist movements, communism and fascism that were flourishing during the great worldwide depression.

That bargain worked but the temptation to constantly expand the programs to hook more people and for people to hook themselves into what appears to be a costless freebie has led to them to the edge of the cliff we face today.

The demagogues now have the problem that they have run out of money they can steal or borrow and the tiger they are on is still hungry.

Posted by: geoffb5 at June 25, 2017 02:04 PM (d3wbb)

217 212 I used to see the power bill for my old company. One building (out of thousands across the country) used about 1000KW/hr


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 02:03 PM (wYseH)

One 50 hp motor uses about 37 kw/hr. How many motors does the average factory have in it running? And that doesn't have all the other shit.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:05 PM (mpXpK)

218 smfh, still struggling, but i'm always so happy to see you post, and how I miss it when I don't see your nic for a while

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:05 PM (v12G8)

219 A similar fire, alone, would likely NOT have resulted in collapses, per the report.

Posted by: Gref at June 25, 2017 01:58 PM (AMIL/)

There is a well-regarded engineer who disagrees. He claimed that the fire alone would probably have brought down the buildings.

These are legitimate discussions though...it's not like "fire doesn't melt steel" or "the CIA did a controlled demolition."

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 02:06 PM (wYseH)

220 This happened because Trump lied to all perons of coler.

---------------

The guy who screwed up Argentina so bad they wouldn't let him back into the country? That Peron? He's been dead for decades.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 25, 2017 02:06 PM (kTF2Z)

221 In the end, the never-to-be-spoken reason is graft.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 25, 2017 02:06 PM (LTHVh)

222 I've been reading ihe Daily Mail about this and have been bemused by how fast they started whipping up the mob. It wasn't more than 24 hours before they chose their Emmanuel Goldstein in the person of the contractor who installed the cladding. The non-tabloid papers are more circumspect but you can feel the seething hatred. It's been interesting to observe.

Mark Steyn slams American papers for being a boring, grey monoculture but in a case like this......

Posted by: Vlad the Impaler, whittling away like mad at June 25, 2017 02:07 PM (RQP0C)

223 Grump, it is. They shutout every other idea and get theirs in collusion with their paid for govt sponsers.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:08 PM (v12G8)

224 The towers collapsed due to a combination of structural damage by the aircraft impacts, fire, and aircraft impact-caused loss of fire protection materials on the steel.

Why would you need to protect steel from fire?

Posted by: Rosie O'Donnell at June 25, 2017 02:09 PM (xAvrH)

225 And besides that, ALL residential usage is a piss in the ocean compared to industrial and commercial.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 01:54 PM (mpXpK)

Yup.....Al Gore's bathrooms use more energy than a small village in Zimbabwe or Detroit.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 25, 2017 02:09 PM (5VlCp)

226 A classic bit from Yes Prime Minister:

The Daily Mirror is read by the people who think they run the country.
The Guardian is read by the people who think they ought to run the country.
The Times is read by the people actually do run the country.
The Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country.
The Financial Times is read by the people who own the country.
The Morning Star is read by the people who think the country should be run by another country.
and The Daily Telegraph is read by the people who think it already is.

http://youtu.be/DGscoaUWW2M


Of course in America it's a bit simpler:

The New York Times is read by Commie bastards who hate sane, normal Americans.
The Washington Post is read by Commie bastards who hate sane, normal Americans.
The LA Times is read by Commie bastards who hate sane, normal Americans.
The Chicago Tribune is read by Commie bastards who hate sane, normal Americans.
The Boston Globe is read by Commie bastards who hate sane, normal Americans.
etc.
etc.

Posted by: Vlad the Impaler, whittling away like mad at June 25, 2017 02:09 PM (RQP0C)

227 How many motors does the average factory have in it running? And that doesn't have all the other shit.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:05 PM (mpXpK)

It really is amazing how little understanding there is of these numbers.

The buildings I worked in were much bigger than average, with probably 200 motors running conveyors. And 100s of high-powered lights.

And smelting and forges use a lot more than that!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 02:09 PM (wYseH)

228 Grump928 Johnson is right!

Posted by: JackStraw Johnson at June 25, 2017 02:09 PM (/tuJf)

229 These are legitimate discussions though...it's not like "fire doesn't melt steel" or "the CIA did a controlled demolition."

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 02:06 PM (wYseH)

you know the unfortunate response to govt malfeasance becomes?
if we can't trust fbi- cia- irs osha, just whop is doing it right?
and that's why draining the swamp openly is so important.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:10 PM (v12G8)

230 re the VA, I think while federal malfeasance is
likely an issue , I have found it can be also a local issue. Some VAs
take care of their people , some do not.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:01 PM (v12G


I have been told by VA patients that the MDs and nursing and rehab staff are committed and generally tops, it is the administrators that makes timely care impossible.


Posted by: Kindltot at June 25, 2017 02:11 PM (mkDpn)

231 Afternoon, y'all. Had a date Friday night. It went well enough that there will be a second one. Y'all wish me luck!

Posted by: Country Singer at June 25, 2017 02:12 PM (yzxic)

232 -p

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:12 PM (v12G8)

233 it is the administrators that makes timely care impossible.


Posted by: Kindltot at June 25, 2017 02:11 PM (mkDpn

well money is really to root of many of our govt workers malfeasance, they route the money to their ...? and take short cuts.

still individually some VAs try to do their job, regardless.

I would hate to be in their shoes.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:14 PM (v12G8)

234 My old house has aluminum siding with about 1/4" Styrofoam on underside. Still for sale in the U.S., as we bought some replacement pieces about three years ago. That's the least of my problems though---our house has "balloon" construction, so God forbid we ever have a fire, the whole thing's gonna go up like a tinderbox.

I believe I read somewhere that the cladding used in the Grenfell fire was legal to use up to two stories.

Posted by: IrishEi at June 25, 2017 02:14 PM (HiDrR)

235 Kennedy called, Ginsburg's dead, call me.

Posted by: Frank Costanza at June 25, 2017 02:14 PM (qYCgM)

236 Wow. I woke up, posted a little, fell back to sleep, woke up, fell asleep again, and just woke up again a few minutes ago. I think my sleep deprivation caught up with me with a vengeance.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 02:14 PM (0mRoj)

237 225 Yup.....Al Gore's bathrooms use more energy than a small village in Zimbabwe or Detroit.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 25, 2017 02:09 PM (5VlCp)



Al Gore's house used 221,000 KW in 2006 giving a bill of $30,000. So that post is true and not a joke.


http://tinyurl.com/3xfxvn

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:15 PM (mpXpK)

238 Kind of like the Taggart Tunnel part of Atlas Shrugged

Posted by: dan at June 25, 2017 02:15 PM (+yr9b)

239 "I know some C, but have only programmed .exe files and microcontrollers. I was assured that this would be sufficient, but that might be recruiting fluff."

It probably won't be sufficient.

However, if you have basic chops in C, that's a good starting point for picking up foundational systems knowledge in Unix/Linux. Then using that foundation to expand out into TCP/IP networking.

Posted by: torquewrench at June 25, 2017 02:15 PM (ujwCG)

240 Of course fire can't melt steel. Steel is harvested from small I-Beam farms that dot the PA countryside.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 25, 2017 02:16 PM (kTF2Z)

241 238 Kind of like the Taggart Tunnel part of Atlas Shrugged
Posted by: dan at June 25, 2017 02:15 PM (+yr9b)

I'm paying you to get a tunnel dug, and instead you're jumping around like a bunch of Kansas City faggots!

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 02:17 PM (0mRoj)

242 Let's not forget the most important fact of the entire story, which is that the fire was caused by a refrigerator that exploded because the European Union has replaced freon, a non-flammable gas, with flammable gas in all refrigerators.

Posted by: Sharkman at June 25, 2017 02:17 PM (XDEFW)

243 Steel is harvested from small I-Beam farms that dot the PA countryside.


It was, before Big Steel started buying up the little guys.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 25, 2017 02:17 PM (LTHVh)

244 216
That bargain worked but the temptation to constantly expand the programs to hook more people and for people to hook themselves into what appears to be a costless freebie has led to them to the edge of the cliff we face today.

The demagogues now have the problem that they have run out of money they can steal or borrow and the tiger they are on is still hungry.
Posted by: geoffb5 at June 25, 2017 02:04 PM (d3wbb)


Good comment.

Posted by: rickl at June 25, 2017 02:18 PM (sdi6R)

245 234 I believe I read somewhere that the cladding used in the Grenfell fire was legal to use up to two stories.

Posted by: IrishEi at June 25, 2017 02:14 PM (HiDrR)

That is in the US, according to a post above. It was legal in the UK all the way up. And not only that they have found the same shit used in 34 other high rise buildings.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:18 PM (mpXpK)

246 I have been told by VA patients that the MDs and nursing and rehab staff are committed and generally tops, it is the administrators that makes timely care impossible.


Posted by: Kindltot at June 25, 2017 02:11 PM (mkDpn)

---

this

Posted by: SMFH at June 25, 2017 02:18 PM (s5Kql)

247 It's all genetically modified monoculture alloy now.

Very few 'Artisan Steel' ranches remain.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 25, 2017 02:18 PM (LTHVh)

248 247 It's all genetically modified monoculture alloy now.

Very few 'Artisan Steel' ranches remain.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 25, 2017 02:18 PM (LTHVh)

And Monsanto owns the patents to all the seed.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 02:19 PM (0mRoj)

249 One 50 hp motor uses about 37 kw/hr. How many motors does the average factory have in it running? And that doesn't have all the other shit.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:05 PM (mpXpK)


My factory had about 20-30 motors running at any one moment. Between 1/2 hp to about 12 hp max. Ugly florescent lighting everywhere. Air conditioning seven months out of the year. Two shifts. Electric bill was not a killer. Maybe 1% of sales dollars.

Probably 10X your average residential bill for a months service.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 02:19 PM (PduNE)

250 "However, if you have basic chops in C, that's a good starting point for picking up foundational systems knowledge in Unix/Linux."

I hear: 'Step up to intermediate C and get to basic proficiency in Linux.' That about right? How about Java? I've gotten conflicting answers re: that language, so it might be a matter of opinion or specific organizational focus.

The program in question openly accepts EEs and mathematicians so I'm sure they have dealt with people who have minimal programming experience in the past. But I'd like to minimize the struggle.

Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 02:20 PM (ORmJ3)

251 I have been told by VA patients that the MDs and
nursing and rehab staff are committed and generally tops, it is the
administrators that makes timely care impossible.





Posted by: Kindltot at June 25, 2017 02:11 PM (mkDpn)



---



this

Posted by: SMFH at June 25, 2017 02:18 PM (s5Kql)


Yep. Go into any VA and you'll quickly notice that the volunteer help is much more efficient and courteous than the actual government administrative employees.

Posted by: Country Singer at June 25, 2017 02:20 PM (yzxic)

252 We do not monitor our congresscritters closely enough. And I'm as guilty as anybody.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at June 25, 2017 02:20 PM (xAvrH)

253 The UK would have been better off going to the old refridgerant gas; ammonia. If you had a leak you would have to get your ass out, but it would not blow up the whole building.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:21 PM (mpXpK)

254
There is a well-regarded engineer who disagrees. He claimed that the fire alone would probably have brought down the buildings.

These are legitimate discussions though...it's not like "fire doesn't melt steel" or "the CIA did a controlled demolition."

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 02:06 PM (wYseH)

===

One WTC building DID COLLAPSE DUE TO FIRE EFFECTS on 9/11/2001. It was WTC 7, a 47-story, trapezoidal cross-section building, north of the main WTC complex, across Vesey Street. It collapsed 6 or 8 hours after the Twin Towers.

WTC 7 collapse cause has always been controversial. Whenever someone says the Twin Towers could have been brought down by fire alone and he/she quotes an expert, ask which WTC buildings the expert was talking about. A link to a page where you can download NIST's WTC 7 report is here:

http://tinyurl.com/6ezf82c

Posted by: Gref at June 25, 2017 02:21 PM (AMIL/)

255 clangs tincup across my metaphorical prison to wake up insomniac.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:21 PM (v12G8)

256
It was, before Big Steel started buying up the little guys.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 25, 2017 02:17 PM (LTHVh)

-----------------

Correct. It was then when Carnegie invented the dragon fired forges, revolutionizing the business.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 25, 2017 02:21 PM (kTF2Z)

257 252 We do not monitor our congresscritters closely enough. And I'm as guilty as anybody.
Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at June 25, 2017 02:20 PM (xAvrH)

Trouble is, keeping tabs on government shenanigans would be a full time job and require several staffers to help.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 02:22 PM (0mRoj)

258 yo

Posted by: Ralph at June 25, 2017 02:22 PM (bYZsp)

259 geoffb5 at June 25, 2017 02:04 PM (d3wbb)


great comment.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:22 PM (v12G8)

260 I thought I had used up my stash of incandescents but while cleaning out a closet I just found two more 4-packs.

Yay, a reprieve!

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at June 25, 2017 02:22 PM (ul9CR)

261 That is in the US, according to a post above. It was legal in the UK all the way up. And not only that they have found the same shit used in 34 other high rise buildings.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:18 PM
~~~~~

What a bunch of idiots they are. And all for Gaia!

Posted by: IrishEi at June 25, 2017 02:23 PM (HiDrR)

262 255 clangs tincup across my metaphorical prison to wake up insomniac.
Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:21 PM (v12G

Heh. Oh I'm awake now. I haven't crashed out that hard in a long time though.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 02:23 PM (0mRoj)

263 insomniac, what a good feeling it is to actually sleep like a normal person right?

not that you're not normal, well ok you are slightly abnormal, like the rest of us.

but nice, eh?

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:25 PM (v12G8)

264 263 insomniac, what a good feeling it is to actually sleep like a normal person right?

not that you're not normal, well ok you are slightly abnormal, like the rest of us.

but nice, eh?
Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:25 PM (v12G

It is, in a very weird sort of way.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 02:26 PM (0mRoj)

265 So, bottom line this is a pubic housing building, aka the projects in the USA, where all the residents were pretty much living free, had no sprinklers, and no central fire alarm.


Remember, this was a GOVERNMENT OWNED building.



Funny how this information isn't being mentioned in any of these stories.


Wonder why.


So alternative headline.


Immigrant welfare recipients living in substandard GOVERNMENT housing die of neglect.

Posted by: Ralph at June 25, 2017 02:26 PM (bYZsp)

266 Thanks to Gaia-friendly sustainable building codes, those people died in an atmosphere of good breeding.

http://johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Culture/Extras/politenessman.jpg

Posted by: Politenessman at June 25, 2017 02:27 PM (t5m5e)

267 insomniac, dod yyou sit up and worry that something happened while you were in lala land?
I do that, I sit straight up like omg, something happened and I didn't fix it.

sucks to be (me)another insomniac.
my spouse believe my sleeping 2-3 hours with an occasional 6 hour hard death is normal for me, so he just doesn't relate. LOl

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:27 PM (v12G8)

268 Looking forward to the Falcon 9 launch scheduled for 4:25 pm Eastern time, with the new improved grid fins.

Who says space geeks can't have fun?

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43209.0

Posted by: rickl at June 25, 2017 02:28 PM (sdi6R)

269 What a bunch of idiots they are. And all for Gaia!
Posted by: IrishEi at June 25, 2017 02:23 PM (HiDrR)


at least they left out the conveyor belt, rotating knives and chutes to efficiently channel the blood away. And think of the cost savings for sound-proofing!

https://youtu.be/DyL5mAqFJds

Posted by: Kindltot at June 25, 2017 02:28 PM (mkDpn)

270
Cladding?

Why do we say "clapboard" instead of cladboard?

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 25, 2017 02:28 PM (4DEJp)

271 "I hear: 'Step up to intermediate C and get to basic proficiency in Linux.' That about right?"

You may not have to spend too much time in the C trenches before being able to figure out basic Linux concepts. One thing that basic C helps with is learning shell scripting, which is central to Linux/Unix operations.

"How about Java?"

I wouldn't worry about Java at this stage. Also, if your brain is able to deal with C, and pointers, and manually allocating and deallocating memory, then picking up Java later on should be a snap.

I have a distinct impression that Python is eclipsing Java in many environments which used to use the latter.

However, the conceptual distance C <-> Java is shorter than that of C <-> Python. I like Python, but it's got its own way of doing things. C habits must be unlearnt.

Posted by: torquewrench at June 25, 2017 02:28 PM (ujwCG)

272

And how did cupboard become "cubberd?"

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 25, 2017 02:29 PM (4DEJp)

273 Ralph, because they all know that place was a govt moneypit, tons of cash thrown at them , and sucked up by Valerie jarret types instead .

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:29 PM (v12G8)

274 The only bad part was having dreams of social competence, especially with the ladies. That always causes feelings of deep disappointment when I wake up.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 02:29 PM (0mRoj)

275 Newcandscent company was featured five or six years ago on Rush, and the bulbs were made in NJ at their little plant. They would send your order, each bulb in it's cardboard closed box, with a spare box full of tiny wrapped tootsie rolls as a thank you.

Good old American manufacturing and service. Yes, they were three dollars a bulb, but worth it if you wanted them.

Sad to see that end.
Posted by: Jen the original


Three dollars a bulb???

At the Chinese stores, it's 99 cents for a four-pack -- 25 cents per bulb, which is one-twelvth the price.

Yeah, they're not "Made In America"®, but economics is economics.

Posted by: zombie at June 25, 2017 02:30 PM (DQ4Fv)

276 speaking of the UK not using freon, I hope all you folks know that in a few more short years ALL freon will be phased out in the US in new products buildings etc. ALL for that fake ozone hole.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:30 PM (mpXpK)

277 267 insomniac, dod yyou sit up and worry that something happened while you were in lala land?

Not this time, but sometimes in my process of tossing and turning my mind will make up things of great importance for me to obsess about that do not exist in real life.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 02:31 PM (0mRoj)

278 speaking of the UK not using freon, I hope all you folks know that in a few more short years ALL freon will be phased out in the US in new products buildings etc. ALL for that fake ozone hole.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party

Somehow I'm sure DuPont or 3M are making money off of that fake hole somehow.

Posted by: Jean at June 25, 2017 02:32 PM (9TU00)

279 you have dreams of social competence?
lucky you.

I'm buried in dreams of nothingness for couple of hours and wakefulness with I can never ever do enough to fix all my loved ones life.

add that maybe I wasn't smart enough (shut up) to guide correctly.

and so deserve the hell.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:32 PM (v12G8)

280 276 speaking of the UK not using freon, I hope all you folks know that in a few more short years ALL freon will be phased out in the US in new products buildings etc. ALL for that fake ozone hole.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:30 PM (mpXpK)

-----


Not a problem. Propane makes an excellent substitute for freon.

Posted by: Politenessman at June 25, 2017 02:33 PM (t5m5e)

281 Immigrant welfare recipients living in substandard GOVERNMENT housing die of neglect.

Posted by: Ralph


Excellent. Maybe this will convince more of them to stay put, instead of invading Europe.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at June 25, 2017 02:33 PM (xAvrH)

282 Vic what brings you out on a late Sunday afternoon? Weather is mighty nice in the Up State today.

Posted by: Ralph at June 25, 2017 02:33 PM (bYZsp)

283 Jan 1, 2020 R-22 and all other CFCs will be banned in the US.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:34 PM (mpXpK)

284 279 you have dreams of social competence?
lucky you.

I'm buried in dreams of nothingness for couple of hours and wakefulness with I can never ever do enough to fix all my loved ones life.

add that maybe I wasn't smart enough (shut up) to guide correctly.

and so deserve the hell.
Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:32 PM (v12G

Ouch. Not all the dreams are of social competence but when they are, waking up to my perpetual state of loserdom stings all the more.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 02:34 PM (0mRoj)

285 Not this time, but sometimes in my process of tossing and turning my mind will make up things of great importance for me to obsess about that do not exist in real life.
Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 02:31 PM (0mRoj)

Grandpa used to call that 'wolves at the door'...

You can't see them... you can't hear them... but dammit! you know they are there in the middle of the night...

Of course, the only wolves anywhere near my house, are in the zoo... but....

Posted by: Don Q., at June 25, 2017 02:34 PM (NgKpN)

286 make up things of great importance for me to obsess about that do not exist in real life.
Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 02:31 PM (0mRoj)

yeah, I might be doing that, but I have a lot of things in my life I feel overwhelmes in dealing with,. kids, financial,
well I suppose every human does the same, but maybe on steroids.

Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:35 PM (v12G8)

287 Somehow I'm sure DuPont or 3M are making money off of that fake hole somehow.

Posted by: Jean


Imagine how much they could make off of a real hole.

Posted by: Hope Solo at June 25, 2017 02:35 PM (xAvrH)

288 Not a problem. Propane makes an excellent substitute for freon.

Posted by: Politenessman at June 25, 2017 02:33 PM (t5m5e)

Especially when used by a third world immigrant with a 4th grade education.

What could go wrong? I am thinking. You know it's the ECU standard now.

Posted by: Ralph at June 25, 2017 02:35 PM (bYZsp)

289 282
Vic what brings you out on a late Sunday afternoon? Weather is mighty nice in the Up State today.


Posted by: Ralph at June 25, 2017 02:33 PM (bYZsp)

Too hot outside to go sit on the porch and besides. neighbor came over and got the last of my bourbon yesterday so the rocking chair would be no fun.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:36 PM (mpXpK)

290 Jan 1, 2020 R-22 and all other CFCs will be banned in the US.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party


That gives Trump and the Republicans plenty of time to kill it, along with all the other bullshit (like the Tubman $20). OTOH, it's the Republicans, so who knows what will happen.

Posted by: Hope Solo at June 25, 2017 02:37 PM (xAvrH)

291 Speaking of totally fcked up.



150 Paki's die trying to steal gas from an overturned tanker getting burned alive when it catches on fire.



Sad, but hey, it's was Allah's will!



Posted by: Ralph at June 25, 2017 02:38 PM (bYZsp)

292 neighbor came over and got the last of my bourbon

Words I can not understand in that order, or any order.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 02:38 PM (PduNE)

293 Buttsock off.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at June 25, 2017 02:38 PM (xAvrH)

294 And how did cupboard become "cubberd?"
Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 25, 2017 02:29 PM (4DEJp)


To misquote Haeckel:

In English, orthography recapitulates philology.

Posted by: Kindltot at June 25, 2017 02:38 PM (mkDpn)

295 Those cheapo Chinese incandescents didn't last nearly as long, so it's not simple economics. It ain't cheaper if you're replacing them much faster.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at June 25, 2017 02:38 PM (ul9CR)

296 "keeping tabs on government shenanigans would be a full time job and require several staffers to help."

My day job involves keeping tabs on rulemaking by state agencies to insure that proper procedures are followed and the regulations don't exceed their statutory authority. The agency I work for currently has 13 full time staff; prior to the computer era it had about 25 because there was a lot more secretarial and typing work to be done.

Posted by: Secret Square at June 25, 2017 02:38 PM (9WuX0)

297 yeah, I might be doing that, but I have a lot of things in my life I feel overwhelmes in dealing with,. kids, financial,
well I suppose every human does the same, but maybe on steroids.
Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:35 PM (v12G

Ugh. I think we've all been there to one degree or another. Have you ever been diagnosed as having any type of anxiety disorder?

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 02:39 PM (0mRoj)

298 290 That gives Trump and the Republicans plenty of time
to kill it, along with all the other bullshit (like the Tubman $20).
OTOH, it's the Republicans, so who knows what will happen.



Posted by: Hope Solo at June 25, 2017 02:37 PM (xAvrH)

IIANM that was a signed and ratified treaty. I don't think Trump could leaglly terminate it. The Senate would have to kill it.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:39 PM (mpXpK)

299 292
neighbor came over and got the last of my bourbon



Words I can not understand in that order, or any order.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 02:38 PM (PduNE)

Bad planning. Always have a hidden spare.

Posted by: Ralph at June 25, 2017 02:39 PM (bYZsp)

300 Hey, my Muslima sex doll was just delivered.

It blows itself up!

thankyou thankyou. Try the veal.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at June 25, 2017 02:39 PM (ul9CR)

301 The bulbs did it.

Posted by: Lee Iacocca at June 25, 2017 02:39 PM (En33R)

302 >>Grandpa used to call that 'wolves at the door'...

Was your Grandpa Scottish by chance? Ever heard of The Wolf of Badenoch?

Posted by: JackStraw Johnson at June 25, 2017 02:40 PM (/tuJf)

303 Grandpa used to call that 'wolves at the door'...

You can't see them... you can't hear them... but dammit! you know they are there in the middle of the night...

Of course, the only wolves anywhere near my house, are in the zoo... but....
Posted by: Don Q., at June 25, 2017 02:34 PM (NgKpN)

I see I'm not the only one whose subconscious mind hates him.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 02:40 PM (0mRoj)

304 288
Especially when used by a third world immigrant with a 4th grade education.

Posted by: Ralph at June 25, 2017 02:35 PM (bYZsp)


Or even a first world citizen with a modern university "education".

Posted by: rickl at June 25, 2017 02:40 PM (sdi6R)

305 Thanks, torque. Sounds like it'll take a little preparatory effort, but is achievable.

I tinkered with HTML and the idea of hacking once, long ago, and abandoned it. I'd never have predicted being paid to go do it.

Life is strange.

Hell, I might even be good at it. A story from a pro forensics team was tossed to me, asking what I'd consider doing: they needed to get open a Blackberry that would erase its content if they missed the password three times, and had already missed it twice; what do you do, Apostate?

I said 'crack it open and shut off the power to whatever pin controls the reset.' Apparently, that's what they really did and it worked. It was an EE hardware solution that the computer science guys didn't think about.

Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 02:41 PM (ORmJ3)

306 That freon phase out was put in place by an ALL Democrat congress and approved by Bush-I, big RINO.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:41 PM (mpXpK)

307 283 Jan 1, 2020 R-22 and all other CFCs will be banned in the US.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:34 PM (mpXpK)

===

What the heck are we supposed to use for cooling after 1/1/2020, harsh language?

Posted by: Gref at June 25, 2017 02:41 PM (AMIL/)

308 Secret Square, some state agencies here write elegant rules, others are a hash of unreadable slush. It depends on the the people involved I'm afraid

Posted by: Kindltot at June 25, 2017 02:43 PM (mkDpn)

309 307 283 Jan 1, 2020 R-22 and all other CFCs will be banned in the US.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:34 PM (mpXpK)

===

What the heck are we supposed to use for cooling after 1/1/2020, harsh language?
Posted by: Gref at June 25, 2017 02:41 PM (AMIL/)

Propane and propane accessories.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 02:43 PM (0mRoj)

310 And let's not forget the nearly 5000 people that drowned in bathtubs last year....F'in plumbers!

Posted by: NY Times Green Energy Staff at June 25, 2017 02:43 PM (NME3H)

311 Insomniac, are you still looking for work?

Posted by: Kindltot at June 25, 2017 02:44 PM (mkDpn)

312 "Hey, my Muslima sex doll was just delivered. It blows itself up!"

Now that's funny.

Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 02:45 PM (ORmJ3)

313 Consent to ratification of treaties (the Senate power) does not automatically include a role in withdrawal from said treaties.

When the US signs and the Senate consents to ratification, a treaty becomes law.

But withdrawal from said treaty - all treaties contain provisions for such withdrawal - is between the US executive and the foreign signatories.

Unless another massive memory failure is taking place (possible), when the US withdrew from the ABM Treaty under Dubya, the Senate had no bite at the apple. The withdrawal was done in accordance with the terms of the treaty itself.

Of course the Senate and Congress as a whole possess several solid and some prospective tools to complicate or negate aspects of executive branch foreign policy, mostly the power of $$$. So Congress could torture a president in various ways, if it so chose, over treaty withdrawal - but I don't think the Senate has any formal say over withdrawal itself.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 25, 2017 02:45 PM (iynDC)

314 307 What the heck are we supposed to use for cooling after 1/1/2020, harsh language?

Posted by: Gref at June 25, 2017 02:41 PM (AMIL/)

I bet congress has exempted itself. But since there is no current identified replacement I guess we go back to the 50s when I had to sweat all Summer.
But according to the phase out, even congress will not be able to get R-22.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:46 PM (mpXpK)

315
I think I've seen talk of using big bad planet destroying CO2 as refrigerant. But it's a tinier molecule so more costly (d'uh) and more prone to leakage (d'uh) and more often costly repair calls (d'uh) so I'd assume that's the leading candidate. Plus though -- won't set your house on fire but the water in your traps will probably rise.

Unless the Trumpelmeister runs amok and smashes through the insanity.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 02:47 PM (PduNE)

316 And let's not forget the nearly 5000 people that drowned in bathtubs last year....F'in plumbers!

But 93,000,000 people a day are killed by guns, so what's the use?

Posted by: tu3031 at June 25, 2017 02:47 PM (qJhUV)

317 311 Insomniac, are you still looking for work?
Posted by: Kindltot at June 25, 2017 02:44 PM (mkDpn)

Well, yes and no. I started picking up a few projects on a contract basis recently, but I'm still looking for a full-time gig.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 02:48 PM (0mRoj)

318 apostate. My work just interviewed someone who works for an IT security compliance company. What I gleaned from the interview: the pen testers as they are called are given the "hacking" tools to see if the company has up to date security. -- and sometimes they just have to call employees and see if they fall for the "hi this is Joe from IT, I need your password to check for something" Our candidate had become an IT guy for the company, automating the installation of the tools on the pen tester CPUs.

Posted by: PaleRider at June 25, 2017 02:48 PM (8qFZP)

319 @313 It also depends on whether the treaty is self-executing. If it is, its provisions are part of federal law and must be repealed as such. Otherwise, the terms are without domestic legislative meaning.

Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 02:50 PM (ORmJ3)

320 Let me guess, existing freon based systems will not be compatible with the new refrigerant.

If the ban goes into efffect and nothing else works, congress critters will be hunted in the streets.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 25, 2017 02:51 PM (kTF2Z)

321 Survivors have charged that the facade was installed to beautify their housing project for the benefit of wealthy neighbors.

I guess Early Ghetto would have been their own personal preference?

Posted by: Notorious BFD at June 25, 2017 02:52 PM (Tyii7)

322 313 Posted by: rhomboid at June 25, 2017 02:45 PM (iynDC)


I rarely get to see the wording of any actual treaties so there is no telling how this piece of fraudulent shit is worded. I do know that for years NASA posted data on the so-called ozone hole on its web site. The size of the hole did not change for 10 years after banning freon 12. Don't know now because they no longer post it.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:52 PM (mpXpK)

323 And let's not forget the nearly 5000 people that drowned in bathtubs last year....F'in plumbers!

More people are killed by plumbers every year than by Muslims. We need to let in more Muslims and restrict immigration for plumbers.

Posted by: Barack Obama at June 25, 2017 02:52 PM (xAvrH)

324 Melanie Phillips wrote this commentary at @jeruslam post
Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 01:28 PM (v12G
----------

That was an excellent piece, willow. Thank you for mentioning it.

Posted by: bluebell ~ if the recipe's a hit, you must submit! at June 25, 2017 02:54 PM (sBOL1)

325 320
Let me guess, existing freon based systems will not be compatible with the new refrigerant.



If the ban goes into efffect and nothing else works, congress critters will be hunted in the streets.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 25, 2017 02:51 PM (kTF2Z)

Just like Freon 22 is not compatible with the old Freon 12 systems.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:55 PM (mpXpK)

326 >>I have been told by VA patients that the MDs and
nursing and rehab staff are committed and generally tops, it is the
administrators that makes timely care impossible.




Posted by: Kindltot

My experience has been, in general, that the better and more willing the providers are at circumventing the bureaucracy / system the better care the patients get. It takes a definite expenditure of energy.

Posted by: Aviator at June 25, 2017 02:55 PM (/Nite)

327 @56 I read the several NIST WTC reports for work. 12 years after that assignment, I still get angry just thinking about it. Not just about the Saudis who did it, but also about the authorities involved with specifying the fire protection. I don't recall if even a single one was brought to account.

Haven't heard the fire can't melt steel crap in a long time, but there is an easy to comprehend rebuttal to that. Watch an old fashioned horse opera. The hero rides into town and stables his horse. At the stables, the blacksmith is heating steel bar and pounding out horseshoes. Why heat it? Because it gets all soft and pliable. Then the blacksmith cools it in a bucket of water and it gets strong again. Conclusion even an addlepate can grasp (if they want to): steel gets weak when its really, really hot, even while its still solid.

Those buildings were amazing, extremely efficient use of material, but simply not up to a black swan event, and with few exceptions, nobody thought about that type of event. One who did was the security manager for Morgan Stanley, Rick Rescorla, a Welsh immigrant who was previously at Ia Drang with the 7th Calvary. He drilled the 2500 MS employees in evacuation, probably at their sufferance, and got them all out. He and his assistants were the only MS employees who died in the collapse. A name worth remembering.




Posted by: chuckR at June 25, 2017 02:56 PM (qS1uX)

328 Wonder how much HVAC OEMs spent on lobbying on this boondoggle.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 25, 2017 02:56 PM (kTF2Z)

329 Politness is all about the individual sacrifices we make for the greater good of a smoothly-functioning society and world. The individual immolations that will result from replacing freon with propane are the price we must pay for the greater good. It's the polite thing to do, so die quietly and without a lot of complaining. Don't be like those rude ruffian Britons rioting in the streets over this Grenfell Tower unpleasantness.

Posted by: Politenessman at June 25, 2017 02:57 PM (t5m5e)

330
As long as Bannon and his 'White Board of Doom' are still in the White House, I feel confident that things are still on track and silly liberal/progressive shit will be 'banished'.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 02:58 PM (PduNE)

331 Well hello, boys and girls!

since the gods refuse to give us a food thread, I thought I'd jump start things with a green sauce. A Peruvian green sauce.

For this sauce you will need the following:

1 large bunch of fresh cilantro
2 limes
4 TBS extra virgin olive oil
1 TBS softened butter
1/4 cup mayonnaise
1/4 cup sour cream
4 cloves of garlic
5 fresh jalapeno peppers
1 TBS ranch dressing powder

Coarsely chop everything into a blender, except limes. Halve limes, and juice into blender. Blend, taste, thank me.

Moar hotter: include more jalapeno seeds, and ribs.

Less Hotter: scrape out those seeds, and trim out the jalapeno ribs.


Posted by: Sticky Wicket at June 25, 2017 02:58 PM (h+eqa)

332 Sticket Wicket, the god of the food thread usually puts it up at about 4:00 Eastern. So we can't yell at him yet.

Posted by: bluebell ~ if the recipe's a hit, you must submit! at June 25, 2017 02:59 PM (sBOL1)

333 Not exactly sure about "self-executing" treaties, Apostate, but I know some treaties required "implementing legislation" to be adopted by Congress which, of course, would have to be repealed (unless it contained waiver provisions for the president to use).

In the country that *was* the US, I'd say it would be easy for a president withdrawing from a treaty to overcome any congressional opposition on the legislative side, if treaty compliance were to be economically ruinous - but today, who knows.

We have a large, disproportionately prosperous segment of the electorate that also has high voter participation being ravaged, and ignored, in all the brouhaha over health insurance "reform". I see no limit on the damage the country can inflict on itself, and that includes with the passive acquiescence of GOP and even Trump voters. If something doesn't dramatically affect someone, tomorrow, personally, it seems not to be an issue, however outrageous.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 25, 2017 03:00 PM (iynDC)

334 Sticket Wicket, the god of the food thread usually puts it up at about 4:00 Eastern. So we can't yell at him yet.

Posted by: bluebell ~ if the recipe's a hit, you must submit! at June 25, 2017 02:59 PM (sBOL1)


I'm in the Krasnoyarsk Summer Time Zone, what time will it be, please to tell, here.

Posted by: Zbrork at June 25, 2017 03:04 PM (PduNE)

335 Posted by: Sticky Wicket at June 25, 2017 02:58 PM (h+eqa)

Is that how they make it in Peruvia or is this some Americanized version?

Posted by: Peaches at June 25, 2017 03:05 PM (EgOr3)

336
27 The purpose of government regulations is to prevent competition, award bribery and promote incompetence.

Remember, Indian (feather, not dot) reservations bad, public housing good.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 25, 2017 12:13 PM (5VlCp)


I saw this at a display in the Pueblo Museum in Albequerque, NM back in January:

The term "pueblo" means "village" in Spanish. Early Pueblo people lived in pit houses or homes partially dug into the earth, which were entered by a ladder through a hole at the top of the pit. As our communities thrived and grew, we built larger stone structures including those at Mesa Verde and Chaco Canyon. Later we developed adobe bricks and used those to build individual homes as well as entire Pueblo communities. Today, however, many Pueblo people live in low quality U. S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) homes.

The irony, it burns!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at June 25, 2017 03:07 PM (pNxlR)

337 "If something doesn't dramatically affect someone, tomorrow, personally, it seems not to be an issue, however outrageous."

Collectively, modern people are far too stupid or disengaged to be effective wardens of freedom. A steady, generational diet of leftist propaganda, Kardashians, and other nonsense have replaced the 'national civic conversation' that once existed. Matters of national policy have taken a back seat to the latest HBO series.

They genuinely don't understand or know about it, and what does exist is mostly the likes of the NYT or Washington Post; an echo chamber.

Even our political leadership knows more about basketball brackets or the plot of shit like House of Cards than they do about actual geopolitical events or the consequences of major legislation.

Doom descends. But it does so very slowly. In the past, barbarians would sense our weakness and break down the gates. Being protected by oceans and vast distances, we have to import our own barbarians to bow to.

It's all so very deeply stupid.

Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 03:08 PM (ORmJ3)

338 332 Sticket Wicket, the god of the food thread usually puts it up at about 4:00 Eastern. So we can't yell at him yet.

Posted by: bluebell ~ if the recipe's a hit, you must submit! at June 25, 2017 02:59 PM (sBOL1)

I blame Sefton.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 03:08 PM (0mRoj)

339 bluebell, sorry it took me so long to answer you in the previous thread, puppy demanded a car ride.

Posted by: JackStraw Johnson at June 25, 2017 03:09 PM (/tuJf)

340 dammit

Posted by: JackStraw at June 25, 2017 03:11 PM (/tuJf)

341 Posted by: Sticky Wicket at June 25, 2017 02:58 PM (h+eqa)

Clocks: another tool of the cis-normative patriarchy.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 03:12 PM (wYseH)

342 Gee, having high-pressure propane in my car's A/C system should make every fender-bender even more exciting.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 25, 2017 03:14 PM (oVJmc)

343
287 Somehow I'm sure DuPont or 3M are making money off of that fake hole somehow.


Worked there (DuPont), but not in refrigerants. FWIW, the scuttlebutt from those higher up was that we were too accomodating to the ban and actually lost money by being so.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at June 25, 2017 03:15 PM (pNxlR)

344 T-60 minutes and they're starting to load propellants into Falcon 9.

Posted by: rickl at June 25, 2017 03:15 PM (sdi6R)

345 Rick Rescorla, a Welsh immigrant who was previously
at Ia Drang with the 7th Calvary. He drilled the 2500 MS employees in
evacuation, probably at their sufferance, and got them all out. He and
his assistants were the only MS employees who died in the collapse. A
name worth remembering.


Posted by: chuckR at June 25, 2017 02:56 PM (qS1uX)

Yes indeed.

Thank you.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 03:16 PM (wYseH)

346 Roughly 125 tech jobs at Lowe's are being shipped off to Bangalore, India. This came just months after Lowe's outsourced 96 corporate IT jobs to India.

Bastards.

Posted by: Under Fire at June 25, 2017 03:18 PM (l4aLi)

347 T-60 minutes and they're starting to load propellants into Falcon 9.

If it rolls over will another hundred fifty pakistanis try to steal the fuel?

Posted by: JEM at June 25, 2017 03:19 PM (TppKb)

348 >>Worked there (DuPont), but not in refrigerants. FWIW, the scuttlebutt from those higher up was that we were too accomodating to the ban and actually lost money by being so.

Made a similar mistake with halon.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 25, 2017 03:19 PM (/tuJf)

349 327 @56 I read the several NIST WTC reports for work. 12 years after that assignment, I still get angry just thinking about it.

Posted by: chuckR at June 25, 2017 02:56 PM (qS1uX)

===

I forgot about Rescola. Thank you for posting that. .

I also got mad reading the NIST reports. A book that then multiplied my anger about 9/11 towards the Saudis and the entire Muslim Brotherhood/Wahhabist/al Queda crowd of Charlie Sierra Mike Foxtrot's is "The Looming Tower." That book will make any American's blood boil. A must-read to understand how 9/11 happened, how chances to prevent it were bungled, and the Islamic enemy we are up against.

Posted by: Gref at June 25, 2017 03:19 PM (AMIL/)

350 Roughly 125 tech jobs at Lowe's are being shipped off to Bangalore, India. This came just months after Lowe's outsourced 96 corporate IT jobs to India.

Well as long as you let outfits like wipro and infosys eat your economy....

Posted by: JEM at June 25, 2017 03:20 PM (TppKb)

351 Posted by: Sticky Wicket at June 25, 2017 02:58 PM (h+eqa)

CBD will love this. He positively adores cilantro.

Does it pair well with smoked hobo haunch, or is that meat too gamey for the delicate taste of this herb?

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 25, 2017 03:25 PM (QGoUX)

352 H1B visas need to be halted indefinitely. Not only would it help US IT guys, it would really stick it to Silicon Valley. I consider that a win-win.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 25, 2017 03:26 PM (kTF2Z)

353 Let us not forget that the only exit was down the central core of the building; elevators and stairwells. A path that quickly became a chimney filled with smoke.

Most modern buildings have two routes out of the building; at the ends of the building. This one was square, with one path down the central core. They could have designed the building with stairs on one side, and an elevator on the other. They didn't

Posted by: Messa Binks at June 25, 2017 03:26 PM (m9X4Y)

354 Off to lunch and shopping. Till another day.

Posted by: Apostate at June 25, 2017 03:30 PM (ORmJ3)

355 I intend to let Lowe's know what I think.
Which may include mailing back a credit card.
Fuckers.

IT people are probably 1/4 of 1/10th of 1% of sales.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 03:33 PM (PduNE)

356 307 283 Jan 1, 2020 R-22 and all other CFCs will be banned in the US.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:34 PM (mpXpK)

===

What the heck are we supposed to use for cooling after 1/1/2020, harsh language?

Posted by: Gref at June 25, 2017 02:41 PM (AMIL/)




AMMONIA

Posted by: gNewt at June 25, 2017 03:34 PM (vlVF/)

357 Over at Jihad Watch, there's a great article about Sweden.

The national police chief is calling for help, since there are now 55 no go zones and the police can't do anything.

Sorry Sweden, but not sorry.

Actions have consequences.

The people support politicians who brought in these savages, and tax payer money- jizya- is supporting them so they don't have to work.

You reap what you sow.

Posted by: shibumi at June 25, 2017 03:34 PM (aT+Bx)

358 Cute how they insert their politics into every word choice.
I think "bribe-hungry" or "kickback-driven" would be a lot more accurate than "business-friendly" ... .

One takeaway from Grenfell, reinforcing one of the important lessons of 9-11, is this:
anyone standing at the door telling me to "return to your offices / apartments, everything is under control, nothing to worry about " is gonna have my footprints on their chest if they get in my way.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez, they are gaslighting us 24/7 at June 25, 2017 03:36 PM (i81II)

359 "...my footprints on their chest if they get in my way."

Posted by: sock_rat_eez, they are gaslighting us 24/7 at June 25, 2017 03:36 PM (i81II)

Bingo.

And "shelter in place?"

Blow me.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 03:38 PM (wYseH)

360 351 Posted by: Sticky Wicket at June 25, 2017 02:58 PM (h+eqa)

CBD will love this. He positively adores cilantro.

Does it pair well with smoked hobo haunch, or is that meat too gamey for the delicate taste of this herb?
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 25, 2017 03:25 PM (QGoUX)

I prefer LifeBuoy.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 03:39 PM (0mRoj)

361 Here is the deal with regulations.......people cheat, and they are very, very, very good at it. We will always twist and turn every set of rules, no matter how well intended, into a weapon to use against those who oppose us, or simply for our own best interest. Your enemy isn't regulation, or lack of regulation, but human nature.

Posted by: DFCTomm at June 25, 2017 03:40 PM (50gG9)

362 Great pics at ZeroHedge of things melting in Arizona.

/so sorry for the morons that are there. yikes.

Posted by: shibumi at June 25, 2017 03:41 PM (aT+Bx)

363 Here's the link to the SpaceX webcast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tIwZg8F9b8

The countdown is to the launch at 4:25 ET. The webcast should begin about 15-20 minutes before that.


I hope CaliGirl is there to watch.

Posted by: rickl at June 25, 2017 03:41 PM (sdi6R)

364 362 Great pics at ZeroHedge of things melting in Arizona.

Like blacktop, windows and cars?

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 03:42 PM (0mRoj)

365 "Yep.

And that's why I'll repair my old and trusty washer and dryer, as well as my old, water using toilets.

As for CFLs, you know those crazy people who horde light bulbs? Yep. That's me.

Posted by: shibumi"

Right with ya on both of those, shibumi.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez, they are gaslighting us 24/7 at June 25, 2017 03:42 PM (i81II)

366 Working in the office on a Sunday - what else is new? - and listening to Victory At Sea - "Full Fathom Five" - what a great and under-appreciated piece of symphonic music.

Posted by: Skookumchuk at June 25, 2017 03:42 PM (QcWqC)

367 bluebell, sorry it took me so long to answer you in the previous thread, puppy demanded a car ride.
Posted by: JackStraw Johnson at June 25, 2017 03:09 PM (/tuJf)
-----------

No worries, JackStraw - it didn't occur to me until after I hit "post" that I was replying to something you had said an hour and a half before, and you probably weren't even still around.

Glad you had a good week. Recover.

Posted by: bluebell - if your recipe's a hit, you must submit! at June 25, 2017 03:42 PM (sBOL1)

368 Like blacktop, windows and cars?
--

street signs, mail boxes, fences.

Posted by: shibumi at June 25, 2017 03:43 PM (aT+Bx)

369 I like cilantro OK, so I guess I didn't get the soap gene.

I've read that people either love mushrooms or else find them repugnant, with no middle ground. Could that be genetic as well?

I'm in the second camp, BTW.

Posted by: rickl at June 25, 2017 03:44 PM (sdi6R)

370 Bingo.

And "shelter in place?"

Blow me.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 25, 2017 03:38 PM (wYseH)



That's really messy. You know that a more accurate tally of wounded and dead will be facilitated by hunkering. Otherwise they'll have to look for you. Sheesh

Posted by: gNewt at June 25, 2017 03:44 PM (vlVF/)

371
One of the worst experiences of my life was when a bank I used outsourced IT to India. I went to the branch manager and told her in no uncertain terms that I was going to stand in the middle of the street outside of the bank and hand out dollar bills until the press arrived, simply to publicize just how f_cked up the bank had become.

Someone conveyed to the dots not feathers to stop f_cking with me within the hour. Lowe's can eat a bag of dicks.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 25, 2017 03:44 PM (PduNE)

372 Posted by: sock_rat_eez, they are gaslighting us 24/7
---

Your nic is perfect and I agree 100% with it!

Posted by: shibumi at June 25, 2017 03:44 PM (aT+Bx)

373 259,
Posted by: willow at June 25, 2017 02:22 PM

Thanks. I wrote it originally at Protein Wisdom 6 years ago. This place moves so fast I can't do long here but copy-paste I can.

Posted by: geoffb5 at June 25, 2017 03:44 PM (d3wbb)

374 >>>>>And that's why I'll repair my old and trusty washer and dryer, as well as my old, water using toilets.



As for CFLs, you know those crazy people who horde light bulbs? Yep. That's me.



Posted by: shibumi"



Right with ya on both of those, shibumi.
.
.
.
We switched our house in Kentucky over to LED's when we bought it, had one bulb go bad in over 4 years. Saved about $10 a month on electric year round and the latest generation LED's are dimmiable and natural light looking.

Starting the same process over here in Texas.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at June 25, 2017 03:46 PM (0pcwX)

375 Late to thread; on sucky tablet... brief.

Green fridge blew up starting the fire. (And assuming 3rd Worlders didn't start it some other way.)

Cladding was also meant as Green insulation energy-friendly crap.

CAGW bureaucracy responsible.

That's all.

Posted by: andycanuck at June 25, 2017 03:47 PM (nlbfN)

376 We switched our house in Kentucky over to LED's when we bought it, had one bulb go bad in over 4 years. Saved about $10 a month on electric year round and the latest generation LED's are dimmiable and natural light looking.
==
I use both CFLs and LEDs.

However, I want the option to use regular bulbs. Which is why I have them in stock.

I'll eventually phase out CFLs, and replace them with LEDs I've purchased on sale.

Posted by: shibumi at June 25, 2017 03:47 PM (aT+Bx)

377 265,
Posted by: Ralph at June 25, 2017 02:26 PM

When the fire was happening I read somewhere that the rent there was $2,500 per month.

Posted by: geoffb5 at June 25, 2017 03:47 PM (d3wbb)

378 I got yer certfied home inspection regulations right here!

Posted by: James Hodgkinson's SKS at June 25, 2017 03:48 PM (iINbI)

379 Also... "don't tell me what kind of light bulbs to use government man!!!!"

/walks over to giant monster truck running off of high octane gas with mAmerican flag flying from the tailgate with 'covfefe' on the sdie, gets in and guns it.

Posted by: shibumi at June 25, 2017 03:50 PM (aT+Bx)

380 Think I'll go for a walk!

Posted by: The Thread at June 25, 2017 03:52 PM (kTF2Z)

381 I feel happy!

I feel happy!

Posted by: The Thread at June 25, 2017 03:53 PM (kTF2Z)

382 I retract #377. That was the amount that nearby hotel rooms cost.

Posted by: geoffb5 at June 25, 2017 03:54 PM (d3wbb)

383 The SpaceX webcast will be starting up any minute now.

Posted by: rickl at June 25, 2017 03:54 PM (sdi6R)

384 I like cilantro OK, so I guess I didn't get the soap gene.

=====

There is also a problem with a small minority of the population who has trouble with garlic. Tastes great, adds to the flavor of dishes, etc. The next day, you sweat it out and it smells like old socks and regurgitated beer. Some people literally can't process garlic.

Posted by: mustbequantum at June 25, 2017 03:56 PM (MIKMs)

385
I've a closet full of incandescent bulbs. I rotate the incandescents in the winter to LEDs in the summer.

Posted by: gNewt at June 25, 2017 03:57 PM (vlVF/)

386 But interviews with tenants, industry executives and fire safety engineers point to a gross failure of government oversight, a refusal to heed warnings from inside Britain and around the world...

Every time you go to do anything nontrivial the crackpots come out of the woodwork to tell you what you're doing is going to Kill Everybody Horribly. 99% of them just need more medication, and it's not surprising institutions sometimes miss that last 1%.

Posted by: Ace's liver at June 25, 2017 03:57 PM (+azJs)

387 The eco warriors are hell bent on forcing their agenda on us globally, the government decided being green was more important than being safe? The boxes were clearly marked not for use over so many meters, but they put them up anyway. The desire to make them so called energy efficient took precedent over safety, hay so what if wind mills kill off entire species of birds and bats those mills make liberals feel all superior to the rest of us.

Posted by: Rose at June 25, 2017 04:02 PM (3N8PC)

388 "IIANM that was a signed and ratified treaty. I don't think Trump could leaglly terminate it. The Senate would have to kill it.


Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:39"

And it was done treaty first, then do the science which didn't support the treaty very much so it was buried away and journolista-science was emplaced to guard the treaty compound.

Posted by: geoffb5 at June 25, 2017 04:06 PM (d3wbb)

389 "What the heck are we supposed to use for cooling after 1/1/2020, harsh language?



Posted by: Gref at June 25, 2017 02:41 PM (AMIL/)"

R-410a which doesn't contain fluorine, I think.

Posted by: geoffb5 at June 25, 2017 04:09 PM (d3wbb)

390 Chlorine not Fluorine above.

Posted by: geoffb5 at June 25, 2017 04:09 PM (d3wbb)

391 377 265,
Posted by: Ralph at June 25, 2017 02:26 PM

When the fire was happening I read somewhere that the rent there was $2,500 per month.
Posted by: geoffb5 at June 25, 2017 03:47 PM (d3wbb)


That's too damn high!

Posted by: Insomniac at June 25, 2017 04:14 PM (0mRoj)

392
391 377 265,
Posted by: Ralph at June 25, 2017 02:26 PM

When the fire was happening I read somewhere that the rent there was $2,500 per month.
Posted by: geoffb5 at June 25, 2017 03:47 PM (d3wbb)


That's too damn high!

Oh yeah? Welcome to London.

(I'm thinking that if we get to the point where we have honest to God pogroms against rich people, and if murder is made legal so long as you can prove that the person you killed is richer than you - reporters and journalists around the world will barely contain their glee.)

Posted by: CatchThirtyThr33 at June 25, 2017 04:23 PM (eq0EU)

393 That rent may have been too damn high but I betcha the gubberment paid most of it.

Posted by: torabora at June 25, 2017 04:28 PM (Q68/Z)

394 (I'm thinking that if we get to the point where we have honest to God
pogroms against rich people, and if murder is made legal so long as you
can prove that the person you killed is richer than you - reporters and
journalists around the world will barely contain their glee.)


They'd better think again. I'm pretty sure the coastal assclowns of journalism make a lot more than we dirt people here in flyover country.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 25, 2017 04:40 PM (oVJmc)

395 This NYT article is total BS...

...they're going out of their way to conceal the fact that the cladding selected was a GREEN product, and therefore Gaia-friendly.

Due to environmental regulations, the architects, builders, and inspectors obliged BY LAW to use / approve the items that contributed to that inferno.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at June 25, 2017 05:16 PM (Quwsn)

396 OT: Drudge has joined the fake news bunch.

Has headline claiming NASA about to announce evidence of alien life.

Linked article says nothing about actual evidence of alien life or any announcement thereof.

Posted by: Meremortal at June 25, 2017 06:04 PM (3myMJ)

397 Too hot outside to go sit on the porch and besides.
neighbor came over and got the last of my bourbon yesterday so the
rocking chair would be no fun.


Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 25, 2017 02:36 PM (mpXpK)

Time to stop being the southern gentleman and tell her to buy her own. But, hey, I'm from NJ.

Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy at June 25, 2017 06:04 PM (TPimP)

398 Meremortal: yeah, it's tabloid bullshit. The NASA guy was recorded saying we're on the verge of discovering alien life. By that logic I'm on the verge of motorboating Kate Upton just because I have photographic evidence that she exists and has boobs.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at June 25, 2017 06:28 PM (6tJGh)

399 Drudge is also leading with the NYP story that the 'Russians!!!!' story is all Dem BS.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 25, 2017 06:41 PM (oVJmc)

400 How bout we just not use propane as a refrigerant.......

Posted by: Jason at June 25, 2017 08:23 PM (Sh0Ue)

401 I read early on the reason the fire spread so rapidly was environmental friendly products were used on the exterior potrtion of the building, creating conditions that allowed the building to burn on the outside and upward, something fires normally don't do.

Posted by: Ken James at June 25, 2017 10:17 PM (7Te2t)

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John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat