A Sarin Primer

After Assad's most recent gas attack using the nerve agent sarin, moron author Mark Huffman, who is a medical doctor, took to Twitter to put us all some f'n knowledge about how bad it really is. I've condensed his tweet-storm into paragraph form:

I'm an anesthesiologist who uses a Sarin-type medicine daily. I want to stress here how miserably awful Sarin poisoning really is. Sarin is a kind of drug called an anticholinesterase. It stops the enzyme that breaks down a nerve-signaling molecule (acetylcholine) from working, so nerves keep firing all over the body. Clinically, this results in a slow heart rate, plus liquids coming out of every orifice they can: vomit, urine, diarrhea, tears, drool. If Sarin kills you, and it won't always, it does so by asphyxiation.

To be clear: it doesn't cause unconsciousness. You'd be awake as you're peeing, pooping, and slowly suffocating. Your pupils constrict so you can't see. I use neostigmine, same class of drugs, on most patients to reverse paralysis, but ALWAYS along with the antidote.

I know Mark. He's one of my book peeps. A more fundamentally decent, peaceable, moral man would be hard to find. Keep that in mind as you read this conclusion of his tweetstorm:

To knowingly use Sarin on ANYONE, much less kids and babies, is utterly barbaric. I don't know who's responsible. Whoever is needs to be obliterated in such a decisive, total way that nobody will ever dare use Sarin or its analogues again. As a Christian my personal obligation is to pray for everyone involved, including the perpetrators. As a Christian who recognizes that Romans 13 describes the legitimate function of government to bear a sword of justice against evildoers, I implore the US and regional allies to turn whoever is doing this, wherever they are, to ash and rubble. Do it wisely and responsibly, but do it decisively.

I can well appreciate the horns of the dilemma PDT is impaled on. On the one hand, you have a corrupt, brutal, bloodthirsty dictator who thinks using nerve gas is a swell idea. But on the other hand, you have a collection of savage barbarians whose goal is to utterly repudiate the modern world and drag it back into the 7th century. And who, do doubt, are not above using chemicals weapons themselves.

There are no good guys vs. bad guys here. They're all bad guys.

May God guide PDT and give him the wisdom of Solomon. Which is a prayer with which I'm sure Mark would agree.

Meanwhile:

Posted by: OregonMuse at 05:08 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Horrifying...

Posted by: Susan Rice at April 07, 2017 05:00 PM (O2RFr)

2 Sweet baby Jesus...I can't even..

Posted by: IC at April 07, 2017 05:01 PM (a0IVu)

3 I implore the US and regional allies to turn whoever is doing this,
wherever they are, to ash and rubble. Do it wisely and responsibly, but
do it decisively.

I'll go with the regional allies but this is not our fight.

And why is that?

There are no good guys vs. bad guys here. They're all bad guys.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 07, 2017 05:02 PM (mpXpK)

4 Kill them all....

Posted by: fu52 at April 07, 2017 05:02 PM (r74Oi)

5 Hasn't almost all the industrialized nations banned all poison gases like Sarin?

Why no make possession of Sarin a war crime?

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 07, 2017 05:04 PM (mpXpK)

6 Yeah, we need to get away from the whole " you break it, you bought it" philosophy of Colon Powell.
More like, blow shit up then, "don't make me come back here, bitches."

Posted by: Roman Maroni at April 07, 2017 05:04 PM (vCA4F)

7 May God guide PDT and give him the wisdom of Solomon.

Oooh -- so does that mean Trump will cut all those motherfuckers in half?

Nice.

Posted by: zombie at April 07, 2017 05:05 PM (DQ4Fv)

8 Breathe deep, while you sleep...

Posted by: Hair at April 07, 2017 05:05 PM (ZO497)

9 Why are we doing this to each other!?!?

Posted by: Chris Cilizza at April 07, 2017 05:06 PM (FqgrG)

10 My takeaway is Sarin is used anesthesia?

Posted by: Regular joe at April 07, 2017 05:06 PM (ROIz5)

11 Didn't Homeland do a recent story arc about the horrors of sarin gas poisoning

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 05:06 PM (SIY7D)

12 Three-fer:

Use the NSA to hack and reprogram North Korea's nukes so they land on Syria instead.

All problems solved in one swell foop!

Posted by: zombie at April 07, 2017 05:07 PM (DQ4Fv)

13 I was the CBR nco for my unit for a year, the biological stuff is so scary. Better hope someone doesn't use that too.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 07, 2017 05:07 PM (6Ll1u)

14
The other part of PDT's dilemma is an intel/defense community that is hell bent on destroying him and us for the preservation of their own power, via lies and deception.

Note: that statement DOES NOT mean I believe that that is the case here. It's just one element that PDT has to deal with - that no President should ever have to deal with.

My other dilemma is that while I loathe Assad and his family's nearly 50 year stranglehold on Syria and the terrorism it has unleashed, it is better he remain than to let ISIS turn that country into Libya in the Levant.

I hear "regime change" and my heart sinks. But, for sure, whoever uses CW should be sent to the Infernal Reaches.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 07, 2017 05:07 PM (mbhDw)

15 We are told that the tomahawks were fired to very precise targets to avoid the stockpiles of gas so as to avoid more tragic civilian casualties.

Seems like the right thing to do.

Makes me wonder though, how could there be stockpiles that we knew of if, according to Susan Rice in January of this very year, Assad had already disposed of these gas stockpiles?

Did Assad arm up that quick or was Ms. Rice less than truthful?

Hard to believe she could lie, I know.

Posted by: Lily Formerly of HotAir (Now from AoSHQ)assassin in the night at April 07, 2017 05:07 PM (vivhj)

16 We have actual smart people who comment here?

Posted by: Weasel at April 07, 2017 05:07 PM (PLcIk)

17 zombie, zombie, zombie........how succinct of you.

Posted by: lindarising at April 07, 2017 05:07 PM (JNDQi)

18 "To knowingly use Sarin on ANYONE, much less kids and babies, is utterly barbaric."

Absolutely. I, for one, stand unflinchingly for a policy under which when kids and babies are killed, they are killed in a clean, moral, pure, upstanding way.

Via shrapnel tearing their bodies apart, and high explosives crushing them with overpressure, and white phosphorus "illumination" rounds burning them down to the bone.

Decency demands no less.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 07, 2017 05:07 PM (noWW6)

19 Why no make possession of Sarin a war crime?
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 07, 2017 05:04 PM (mpXpK)

Someone still needs to enforce it.

Posted by: hogmartin at April 07, 2017 05:07 PM (8nWyX)

20 We live in interesting times.

Posted by: oddnot at April 07, 2017 05:07 PM (g1MTt)

21 According to Tillerson that attack was the third. No mention of a timeline.

Pentagon says Russia could have stopped the attack.

Posted by: Meremortal, with Alacrity at April 07, 2017 05:08 PM (3myMJ)

22 I don't disagree with the reasoning to dispatch with extreme prejudice any leader that uses chemical weapons on people much less his own countrymen.

I just wish those people who feel that way now would be consistent since that was just one of a couple of dozen reasons we invaded Iraq and deposed Saddam. I hope Anti-Iraq invasion Trump realizes this.

Posted by: Jack Sock at April 07, 2017 05:08 PM (bLhAC)

23
Further to #14, what an unmitigated, fucking mess.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 07, 2017 05:08 PM (mbhDw)

24 Susan Rice told us they got rid of all the chemical weapons Syria had. I'm sure all those Syrians just had some really bad allergies.

Susan Rice wouldn't lie to us....

Posted by: Tami at April 07, 2017 05:08 PM (Enq6K)

25 Approximately 5%* of the world's population, from bloodthirsty tyrants, psychopaths, predatory criminals, racists seething with hate, and all their enablers (some of these overlap) make the rest of us miserable to different degrees.

*I don't know if the actual number is 2% or 5%, or 8%, but a relative few people cause an almighty lot of agony, death, hatred, and destruction. And ultimately bring the collapse of civilizations and societies.

Posted by: RM at April 07, 2017 05:08 PM (U3LtS)

26 15 Did Assad arm up that quick or was Ms. Rice less than truthful?

Hard to believe she could lie, I know.

Posted by: Lily Formerly of HotAir (Now from AoSHQ)assassin in the night at April 07, 2017 05:07 PM (vivhj)

Story on Fox a couple of days ago. She lied.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 07, 2017 05:08 PM (mpXpK)

27 WE dony know who used the gas

Posted by: bjklubbs at April 07, 2017 05:08 PM (qtpQF)

28 #3 Agree Vic. We don't need to be in this fight. If we can't find terrorists, get out. If everyone is a terrorist, take care of them as they wander out of bounds.

Posted by: endisnigh at April 07, 2017 05:10 PM (bQTiX)

29 There are a lot of horrible ways to die slowly.

Even the fast ways are pretty bad for the person who is conscious enough to experience them.

Posted by: Jaffry at April 07, 2017 05:10 PM (1ljSq)

30 last nights briefing with tillerson and mcmaster was good. spicer too.

Posted by: concrete girl at April 07, 2017 05:10 PM (eQSM0)

31 everything he says is absolutely true... certainly about the effects of nerve agents and their ilk.

true fact: most, if not all, modern day insecticides you use around the house are nerve agents too.*

just read the label and, if it says atropine and 2-PAM Chloride are the antidote for poisoning, that's a hint and a half for yo' ass. it also means that any nation state with the chemical infrastructure to make insecticides can make war agents.

*that's why, when i was the NBC NCO for a hospital unit back in the 80's, i'd use them to produce positive readings on our test equipment, so the troops i was training would know what they were hoping to not find, should they ever need the training i was giving in real life. (we didn't have $$ to order what the real Army used)

Posted by: redc1c4 at April 07, 2017 05:10 PM (UibNb)

32 Churchill wanted to meet the Germans with gas if they invaded. If you medically describe death by hand grenade it would probably sound pretty awful too. I used to wear a gas mask on my hip in the army. Must have carried it for a reason as it wasn't much of a fashion accessory.

Posted by: floridacracker at April 07, 2017 05:11 PM (ykpj4)

33 27
WE dony know who used the gas

Posted by: bjklubbs at April 07, 2017 05:08 PM (qtpQF)

We know where and how it was unleashed. You think ISIS was at the airbase with the Russians and Syrians?

Posted by: Tami at April 07, 2017 05:11 PM (Enq6K)

34 The world is evil. There's evil all around.

So here we are, at least stumbling around trying to be good.

And what is going to happen here? We'll be pilloried for killing people in response to people killing people.

Why in the hell do we need to jump into this? Why in the hell, if the rest of the world is going to point fingers at us and tell us how evil WE are, do we have to give them cause to blame us for trying to clean up shit that CANNOT BE CLEANED!

Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 05:11 PM (Pz4pT)

35 19 Someone still needs to enforce it.

Posted by: hogmartin at April 07, 2017 05:07 PM (8nWyX)

Anyone who catches them with it. Its should be like piracy, the law of the sea.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 07, 2017 05:11 PM (mpXpK)

36 MSM was building a narrative on the gassing. Doesn't matter that Assad has a hand in killing hundreds of thousands with more conventional weapons. Doesn't matter if it was Assad, ISIS, the CIA or SPECTRE, the media-created reality was that it was Assad the Butcher and SOMETHING HAD TO BE DONE.

So Trump found an artful way to get out of the box they were putting him in, while accomplishing a few other goals as well

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 05:12 PM (SIY7D)

37 Susan Rice wouldn't lie to us....

The Palaces. It's always those Palaces that you can't search.

Posted by: Meremortal, with Alacrity at April 07, 2017 05:12 PM (3myMJ)

38 Since we're all agreed that both sides are bad people, what is wrong with staying on the sidelines and rooting for injuries?

And obviously Sarin gas is awful stuff, but so is conventional, old fashioned lead bullets and shrapnel.

Why is the "how" so important?

Again, unless something is threatening the American homeland, we shouldn't involve ourselves.

We break it, we buy it.

Posted by: Maritime at April 07, 2017 05:12 PM (Yqt1F)

39 ----We are told that the tomahawks were fired to very precise targets to avoid the stockpiles of gas so as to avoid more tragic civilian casualties. -----

So it is possible that airstrikes could have hit a stockpile of chemical weapons and released it ? Not that it happened that way but some people were saying that scenario was ridiculous.

Posted by: Jack Sock at April 07, 2017 05:12 PM (bLhAC)

40 *yawn*

Posted by: UN fuckheads at April 07, 2017 05:12 PM (HgMAr)

41 I was the CBR nco for my unit for a year, the biological stuff is so scary. Better hope someone doesn't use that too.
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby
-----------

Did you have any of the pre-autoinjector 'toothpaste' tubes of atropine?

That was fun. You got to jab the needle in your thigh, then squeeze the tube to inject the atropine. Of course, the motivation to do so was quite high, so, pfft.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 07, 2017 05:13 PM (ZO497)

42 Getting rid of the poisoners is a good but what makes it lawful?
Or are we just budgeting 100M$ of Tomahawks as inaugural expenses now?

Posted by: DaveA at April 07, 2017 05:13 PM (FhXTo)

43
You know else used gas?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 07, 2017 05:13 PM (ZO497)

44 You know who got gassed?
Seriously.

Posted by: tu3031 at April 07, 2017 05:14 PM (qJhUV)

45 No I'm saying I don't trust a word they say

Posted by: bjklubbs at April 07, 2017 05:14 PM (qtpQF)

46 You know else used gas?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 07, 2017 05:13 PM (ZO497)

Nevergiveup?

Posted by: hogmartin at April 07, 2017 05:14 PM (8nWyX)

47 46 You know else used gas?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 07, 2017 05:13 PM (ZO497)

Nevergiveup?
Posted by: hogmartin at April 07, 2017 05:14 PM (8nWyX)

Heh - - *faints in chair*

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 07, 2017 05:15 PM (mbhDw)

48 true fact: most, if not all, modern day insecticides you use around the house are nerve agents too.*

just read the label and, if it says atropine and 2-PAM Chloride are the antidote for poisoning, that's a hint and a half for yo' ass. it also means that any nation state with the chemical infrastructure to make insecticides can make war agents.

*that's why, when i was the NBC NCO for a hospital unit back in the 80's, i'd use them to produce positive readings on our test equipment, so the troops i was training would know what they were hoping to not find, should they ever need the training i was giving in real life. (we didn't have $$ to order what the real Army used)
Posted by: redc1c4

I know someone who used to work as a landscape gardener in the '70s.

She started getting all sorts of neurological problems, then cancer, then died.

Turns out the herbicide she was using in massive quantities for her job was Agent Orange bought by her company from the US Army as surplus after the Vietnam War. She had no idea what it was or that it was dangerous, just sprayed it, inhaled it and touched it all day long for years.

Posted by: zombie at April 07, 2017 05:15 PM (DQ4Fv)

49 Hasn't almost all the industrialized nations banned all poison gases like Sarin?
---
there is essentially no difference between Sarin and other war agents, and modern pesticides...

just as neostigmine and sarin are similar in the sense that they effect the body in the same way. that's why the anesthesia trays i refilled for a living for years had both neostig and antidote chemicals in them.

anesthesia is mostly just taking the body to a near death state, in a manner that lets you, usually, bring it back.

Posted by: redc1c4 at April 07, 2017 05:15 PM (UibNb)

50 33. Air-dropped cw munitions would be a possibility, true, but unless these were binary weapons, there'd be evidence of containment and handling gear at the airbase. Remember - Rooshians and Assad insist the release came from a Syrian strike on a 'rebel' - al-nusrah - ammo dump.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine. Glory to Kekistan! No Longer Accepting Harem Applicants at April 07, 2017 05:15 PM (IiN0U)

51 Sarin gas did that to me? I thought it was that episode of Girls that I tried to watch.

Posted by: Tilikum KAW at April 07, 2017 05:15 PM (uhftQ)

52 Who will shoot missiles at us for burning up David Koresh and followers?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 07, 2017 05:16 PM (IqV8l)

53 We have actual smart people who comment here?
Posted by: Weasel
---------

Don't be fooled by the Smart Girl glasses.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 07, 2017 05:16 PM (ZO497)

54 Over / under on how many weeks until Dems find a way to turn this against Trump? Okay, days.

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at April 07, 2017 05:16 PM (gJzSA)

55 14
The other part of PDT's dilemma is an intel/defense community that is hell bent on destroying him and us for the preservation of their own power, via lies and deception.

Note: that statement DOES NOT mean I believe that that is the case here. It's just one element that PDT has to deal with - that no President should ever have to deal with.

My other dilemma is that while I loathe Assad and his family's nearly 50 year stranglehold on Syria and the terrorism it has unleashed, it is better he remain than to let ISIS turn that country into Libya in the Levant.

I hear "regime change" and my heart sinks. But, for sure, whoever uses CW should be sent to the Infernal Reaches.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 07, 2017 05:07 PM (mbhDw)

I'm weary of regime change as well. The devil you know and all that. There are no good guys here.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 05:16 PM (u8Ywb)

56 You know who got gassed?
Seriously.

Chipotle customers?

Posted by: rickb223 at April 07, 2017 05:17 PM (Vg/Kf)

57 "But on the other hand, you have a collection of savage barbarians whose
goal is to utterly repudiate the modern world and drag it back into the
7th century. And who, do doubt, are not above using chemicals weapons
themselves."

If the purportedly injured innocent doe-eyed children had been drenched in Sarin, it would have been impossible for unprotected rescuers to move and handle and treat them without becoming ill themselves. Quickly so.

However, if they had been exposed to chlorine gas, the rescuers would be much less likely to have incurred secondary chemical injury themselves.

Chlorine is pretty ubiquitous stuff. And it's cheap. Easily commercially available. Unlike Sarin, which is costly, controlled by international arms treaties, and involves complex syntheses, and is not available off the shelf.

The "moderate Syrian resistance" and the fanatic jihadi headchoppers -- and yes, it's perfectly easy to tell the difference, just ask John McCain, who never has any trouble doing so -- both have access to chlorine. And both are previously reported to have used it as an impromptu weapon.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 07, 2017 05:17 PM (noWW6)

58 Sarin gas? Like Sarin Palin gas?

*smirks, looks around the room to see if anyone else is laughing*

Posted by: Hillary Clinton's corpse at April 07, 2017 05:17 PM (8b+oT)

59 Sorry, but I think you are wrong when you say bullets are just as bad. You need to spend a little time reading about WWI. That's why chemical weapons were outlawed. Scores of soldiers blinded, soldiers with their lungs destroyed. Soldiers clawing themselves to death because the fox hole they dived into was filled with gas.

I understand we dont know who is responsible for this. We simply cant condone the use of chemical weapons on anyone.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at April 07, 2017 05:17 PM (Lqy/e)

60 Posted by: DaveA at April 07, 2017 05:13 PM (FhXTo)

The President can strike, it's lawful. He's supposed to go to Congress if things keep going, but he can strike first and go to Congress later.

Posted by: Meremortal, with Alacrity at April 07, 2017 05:17 PM (3myMJ)

61 So it is possible that airstrikes could have hit a stockpile of chemical weapons and released it ? Not that it happened that way but some people were saying that scenario was ridiculous.
Posted by: Jack Sock at April 07, 2017 05:12 PM (bLhAC)

'We' and the Russians use what is called a Binary agent. The two chemicals needed to create the gas are not mixed until detonation.

This makes handling it a bit less of a case of Russian Roulette...

Any sane group would do the same... BUT... that takes a higher level of technology than you might find with a Terrorist Chemist.

I really wish the Trump administration would produce some proof that 1. it was Sarin... (they have not to my knowledge)... and 2. Get in to the city with a team to check dispersal patterns and look for evidence of the bombing...

We have the technology to do this... heck, they have some of the victims in a Turkish Hospital.... and Turkey IS a NATO country, thus having reasonable NBC equipment.

Posted by: Don Q. at April 07, 2017 05:18 PM (NgKpN)

62 Hey Congress, I need you to declare war on Russia and approve funding. Nukes are 7 minutes from hitting us.

-Your Prezzy

Posted by: Meremortal, with Alacrity at April 07, 2017 05:18 PM (3myMJ)

63 49 Hasn't almost all the industrialized nations banned all poison gases like Sarin?
---
there is essentially no difference between Sarin and other war agents, and modern pesticides...

just as neostigmine and sarin are similar in the sense that they effect the body in the same way. that's why the anesthesia trays i refilled for a living for years had both neostig and antidote chemicals in them.

anesthesia is mostly just taking the body to a near death state, in a manner that lets you, usually, bring it back.
Posted by: redc1c4 at April 07, 2017 05:15 PM (UibNb)

One of my fears is a jihadi stealing Ag chemicals.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 05:19 PM (u8Ywb)

64 this administration is trying to do a regime change in Syria, i believe.

Posted by: runner at April 07, 2017 05:19 PM (c6/9Q)

65 The President can strike, it's lawful. He's supposed to go to Congress if things keep going, but he can strike first and go to Congress later.
Posted by: Meremortal, with Alacrity at April 07, 2017 05:17 PM (3myMJ)

Please go read the War Powers Act, and the UN Treaty (which was ratified by the Senate, and thus has the force of US Law).

Posted by: Don Q. at April 07, 2017 05:20 PM (NgKpN)

66 Chemical weapons are bad. Islam is bad.

Eliminate both.....all good.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at April 07, 2017 05:20 PM (61bqj)

67 The injector I wore was more like a pair of epi-pens then a toothpaste tube. The antidote was small about the size of a finger. The antidote for the antidote was huge maybe 5 times the size of the finger sized pen.

You injected the little one decon'd your self and if you where still able to you injected the second pen. The you went around and to all your buddies to see if they managed you use either pen and if not you did it for them.

To practice they used to throw tear gas at us so often I became nearly imune to the dang stuff.

Posted by: Big V at April 07, 2017 05:20 PM (ep6C/)

68 We have actual smart people who comment here?

Posted by: Weasel at April 07, 2017 05:07 PM (PLcIk)
...........

That Ben Rothlisburger guy seems to clarify things a bit.

Posted by: wth at April 07, 2017 05:20 PM (HgMAr)

69 "One of my fears is a jihadi stealing Ag chemicals."

Well, the meth tweakers have already nicked all the anhydrous ammonia.

So we got that going for us, which is nice.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 07, 2017 05:20 PM (noWW6)

70 Yeah, that's terrible.
Why do you think I'm in Tahiti?
*wink wink*

Posted by: Barack Obama In A Grass Skirt at April 07, 2017 05:20 PM (nN3W/)

71 There is a treaty called The Geneva Protocol that signataries agree to ban the use of posion gases and chemical weapons. But a number of nations have not signed it and a number, like the US have reservations.

Note that Syria has "reservations".

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 07, 2017 05:21 PM (mpXpK)

72 You know else used gas?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 07, 2017 05:13 PM (ZO497)

Nevergiveup?
Posted by: hogmartin at April 07, 2017 05:14 PM (8nWyX)

Heh - - *faints in chair*
Posted by: J.J. Sefton
----------

You know who else was a dentist? That's right Mengele. *

*Okay, I may have made that up, but I enjoy taking cheap shots at dentists, and the Navy. Besides, NGU isn't here to defend the question, and I'm opportunistic.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 07, 2017 05:21 PM (ZO497)

73 62 Hey Congress, I need you to declare war on Russia and approve funding. Nukes are 7 minutes from hitting us.

-Your Prezzy
Posted by: Meremortal, with Alacrity at April 07, 2017 05:18 PM (3myMJ)

The President has the authority to DEFEND both US Personnel, and Property, under the War Powers Act.

So yes, he can strike in case WE are either under attack, or under valid threat of being attacked.

That is not the case here.

Posted by: Don Q. at April 07, 2017 05:22 PM (NgKpN)

74 We were on maneuvers by the Czech border one night when the detectors went off, boy did the training kick in. Got that MOPP equipment on lickety split. It was a false alarm, but exciting none the less.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 07, 2017 05:22 PM (6Ll1u)

75 I had a very late after lunch snack and think I have spoiled my dinner.

Posted by: Weasel at April 07, 2017 05:22 PM (PLcIk)

76 Any sane group would do the same... BUT... that takes a higher level of technology than you might find with a Terrorist Chemist.

I really wish the Trump administration would produce some proof that 1. it was Sarin... (they have not to my knowledge)... and 2. Get in to the city with a team to check dispersal patterns and look for evidence of the bombing...

We have the technology to do this... heck, they have some of the victims in a Turkish Hospital.... and Turkey IS a NATO country, thus having reasonable NBC equipment.
Posted by: Don Q. at April 07, 2017 05:18 PM (NgKpN)

Wouldn't we be investigating this? If we aren't, why not?

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 05:22 PM (u8Ywb)

77 Yes, the injectors were like pens. Then "fishhook, fishhook."

Posted by: floridacracker at April 07, 2017 05:22 PM (ykpj4)

78 Bill Wynn is my go to for all answers on this blog.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at April 07, 2017 05:22 PM (6Hrsu)

79 Good post--appreciate the info.
If anything, this demonstrates a possible return to push-button/standoff warfare, which is good.
We've spent the last 16 years (16!) expending blood and lifespans and capital, so any opportunity to demonstrate an absolute technological advantage at no risk to American lives is best.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at April 07, 2017 05:22 PM (hqZPQ)

80
A. Not our circus, not our monkeys

B. Let the Russians waste THEIR blood/money unfucking Syria...THEIR client state, not ours

C. I don't trust any info coming out of the desire to push a war
with Russia, especially from the same people that bent over backwards to
ignore Russia's invasion of Ukraine, a country we ACTUALLY had a
commitment to defend.
FWIW, I don't agree with the strike, but it also seems to be a warning to other actors. I won't criticize the decision, especially as we aren't putting MORE troops on the ground, or giving the "moderates" more guns

Posted by: Grad School Fool at April 07, 2017 05:22 PM (swEzU)

81 72 Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 07, 2017 05:21 PM (ZO497)

*looks frantically for Eric Carmen's "Marathon Man"*

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 07, 2017 05:23 PM (mbhDw)

82

Hillary Clinton said she doesn’t intend to run for elected office again, but vowed to remain involved in public service and to help Democrats regain control of Congress in the 2018 election.

In her first postelection interview, Clinton alluded to the pain of her loss of the presidency to Donald Trump, hinting that there were times she didn’t want to get out of bed.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 07, 2017 05:23 PM (IqV8l)

83 You know who else was a dentist?

Doc Holliday

Posted by: Jaffry at April 07, 2017 05:23 PM (1ljSq)

84 I used to wear a gas mask on my hip in the army. Must have carried it for a reason as it wasn't much of a fashion accessory.
Posted by: floridacracker at April 07, 2017 05:11 PM (ykpj4)

I find it very difficult to breathe through my hip, it must be all that varnish.

Posted by: Ruth the Bader Grimsburg at April 07, 2017 05:23 PM (17bvA)

85 One quibble with Dr Huffman's tweets. Sarin and other nerve agents are actually acetylcholine esterase *inhibitors*. Acetylcholine is the neurotransmitter that sends the signal across the synapse while acetylcholine esterase is the enzyme that clears the acetylcholine out and "resets" the synapse. By inhibiting the esterase and preventing the synapse from resetting, Sarin essentially causes every affected nerve to get stuck in the midst of signal transmission.

Posted by: Papa Rod at April 07, 2017 05:23 PM (EEAs2)

86 Please go read the War Powers Act, and the UN Treaty (which was ratified by the Senate, and thus has the force of US Law).

Posted by: Don Q.
-----
Pres just needs to notify congress within 48 hours for shit not lasting more than 30 days.

Posted by: Hillary Clinton's corpse at April 07, 2017 05:23 PM (8b+oT)

87 One of my fears is a jihadi stealing Ag chemicals.
Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 05:19 PM (u8Ywb)

Would've been worse in the 70's. Pesticide producers have done a great job in reducing the impact on humans. Lower application rates and thus less toxicity rates.

Posted by: golfman at April 07, 2017 05:23 PM (48QDY)

88 Please go read the War Powers Act, and the UN Treaty (which was ratified by the Senate, and thus has the force of US Law).
Posted by: Don Q. at April 07, 2017 05:20 PM (NgKpN)

It's been diluted out of existence. Or will they impeach Trump now?

Posted by: Meremortal, with Alacrity at April 07, 2017 05:23 PM (3myMJ)

89 That Ben Rothlisburger guy seems to clarify things a bit.
Posted by: wth at April 07, 2017 05:20 PM (HgMAr)

That's what he do.

Posted by: golfman at April 07, 2017 05:24 PM (48QDY)

90 I know about Sarin too....those photos aren't Sarin victims....

Posted by: Beto Ochoa (@Beto_In_Austin) at April 07, 2017 05:24 PM (hCdMd)

91 @88...exactly.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at April 07, 2017 05:24 PM (hqZPQ)

92 Doubt you'd find anyone here arguing that a President can not or should not be able to take armed action against another nation-state in the event of a immediate attack on America, or the proverbial "clear and present danger" of such an attack.

(By the way, there is a Democrat from Commiefornia introducing a bill in the House to prevent Trump from firing nuclear weapons without Congressional authorization. Even in the event of a massive inbound first strike showing up on the NORAD radar displays, apparently.)

But we just had Foam Party Rubio sanctimoniously claiming in a teevee interview that "Assad posed a threat to Americans" and that Trump therefore required no authorization from Congress to start firing dozens of cruise missiles into Syria.

Really? Honestly?

Posted by: torquewrench at April 07, 2017 05:25 PM (noWW6)

93 69 "One of my fears is a jihadi stealing Ag chemicals."

Well, the meth tweakers have already nicked all the anhydrous ammonia.

So we got that going for us, which is nice.
Posted by: torquewrench at April 07, 2017 05:20 PM (noWW6)

I don't know what anhydrous ammonia is. I can't remember right now but I think if we have any chemicals/fertilizer stolen we were supposed to contact the FBI.

This was years ago.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 05:25 PM (u8Ywb)

94 ALARM RED!

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at April 07, 2017 05:25 PM (6Hrsu)

95 87. Sir, I've got Union Carbide, Bhopal division, holding for you on line 1.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine. Glory to Kekistan! No Longer Accepting Harem Applicants at April 07, 2017 05:25 PM (IiN0U)

96 82
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 07, 2017 05:23 PM (IqV8l)

I suggest that we redirect our fire at that evil dipsomaniac. Were it not for her and the last Occupier of the Oval Office, Syria and most if not all of the Middle East would not be completely exploding.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 07, 2017 05:25 PM (mbhDw)

97 The President can strike, it's lawful.

There's usually a lot more dotted i's, crossed t's in an Oval Office desk speech involved. Not just a short dead babies horror at a podium.

Doesn't fit the extant AUMF's.
No Clear and Present Danger.
Deterrence already failed.
No un-hyped National Security Interest.
Add Don Q's whaddawebombingUNsignatorieslikeitsnothing
etc.

Posted by: DaveA at April 07, 2017 05:25 PM (FhXTo)

98 There has been a push for us to get into a bigger fight in Syria. From the left, media, and the likes of McCain / Graham.

Trump's Tomahawk hit answered this in a way that din't get us over-committed.

Assad and the Russians get the message not to slaughter civilians in media friendly ways.

China's Mr Big also got a message. Let's see if he delivers it to Fat Boy Little Man

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 05:26 PM (SIY7D)

99 We were on maneuvers by the Czech border one night when the detectors
went off, boy did the training kick in. Got that MOPP equipment on
lickety split. It was a false alarm, but exciting none the less.

I knew a guy in the Marines during Desert Shield/Desert Storm. He said some guy would say, "These beans are giving me gas." All someone would hear was "gas" and the alarms would go off. Said it would happen like once a day. That's how paranoid they were about gas.

Posted by: tu3031 at April 07, 2017 05:27 PM (qJhUV)

100 In her first postelection interview, Clinton alluded to the pain of her loss of the presidency to Donald Trump, hinting that there were times she didn't want to get out of bed.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 07, 2017 05:23 PM (IqV8l)

It's called a hangover

Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 07, 2017 05:27 PM (493sH)

101 How about this? America as world's Orkin Man. Set up a nationwide polling system so everybody can vote real time. When Pres or Congress ids someone as a danger to peace or a criminal against humanity, we all vote. Thumbs down and the person or people go away, violently and permanently.

Ridiculous? Awful? Wait until ISIS nukes a city or country and then tell me why it is they should be Orkin Man and us the roaches?

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at April 07, 2017 05:27 PM (gJzSA)

102 If Trump notified congress within 48 hours of the military action this has nothing to do with the War Powers Act because it hasn't lasted more than 30 days.

Posted by: Dang at April 07, 2017 05:27 PM (8b+oT)

103 FWIW, I don't agree with the strike, but it also seems to be a warning to other actors. I won't criticize the decision, especially as we aren't putting MORE troops on the ground, or giving the "moderates" more guns
Posted by: Grad School Fool at April 07, 2017 05:22 PM (swEzU)

I'm not going to criticize the decision, because there's too much I don't know... but I remain skeptical until we get the actual, you know, proof.

That being said, air strikes are my limit on ANY of this. No ground troops. In fact, it's time we remove any who are still anywhere near the region.

Out of Saudi, out of Iraq, out of the waters surrounding.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 05:27 PM (Pz4pT)

104 I just know this : Assad knows how do deal with ISIS types, Putin knows how to deal with ISIS types (he leveled Chechnya), does DJT ?

Posted by: runner at April 07, 2017 05:28 PM (c6/9Q)

105 93 I don't know what anhydrous ammonia is. I can't
remember right now but I think if we have any chemicals/fertilizer
stolen we were supposed to contact the FBI.

This was years ago.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 05:25 PM (u8Ywb)

You can make bombs with it.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 07, 2017 05:28 PM (mpXpK)

106 in my darker moments I lean more to the wisdom of Ashurbanipal...

Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at April 07, 2017 05:28 PM (9AakA)

107 87 One of my fears is a jihadi stealing Ag chemicals.
Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 05:19 PM (u8Ywb)

Would've been worse in the 70's. Pesticide producers have done a great job in reducing the impact on humans. Lower application rates and thus less toxicity rates.
Posted by: golfman at April 07, 2017 05:23 PM (48QDY)

I don't know/I'm not a PCA, after 9/11 I remember someone being concerned about the chemicals we have on the ranches.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 05:28 PM (u8Ywb)

108 I say we send the CIA to Libya and start running guns to the rebels in Syria. That should solve everything.

Posted by: hILLRY o O at April 07, 2017 05:28 PM (HgMAr)

109 Sweet Jesus.
Lord have mercy on the poor souls affected. Amen on the Solomon prayer for PDT.

Posted by: iwuzhere at April 07, 2017 05:29 PM (jiGGU)

110 102 If Trump notified congress within 48 hours of the military action this has nothing to do with the War Powers Act because it hasn't lasted more than 30 days.
Posted by: Dang at April 07, 2017 05:27 PM (8b+oT)

We have 1000 Men in Syria... right now.

And have since before Trump took office.

Posted by: Don Q. at April 07, 2017 05:29 PM (NgKpN)

111 100 In her first postelection interview, Clinton alluded to the pain of her loss of the presidency to Donald Trump, hinting that there were times she didn't want to get out of bed.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 07, 2017 05:23 PM (IqV8l)

It's called a hangover
Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 07, 2017 05:27 PM (493sH)

Didn't want to get out of bed, or unable to move?

Posted by: Northernlurker at April 07, 2017 05:29 PM (hJrjt)

112 41

You got to jab the needle in your thigh, then squeeze the tube to inject the atropine.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 07, 2017 05:13 PM (ZO497)

Wait--so I *DIDN'T* have to inject it directly into my heart?! Son of a...

Posted by: Stanley Goodspeed at April 07, 2017 05:29 PM (V4Qfo)

113 If Trump notified congress within 48 hours of the military action

--

Trump notified 'leaders' of congress (twelve I think I read) before the missiles were launched (day before I think I read)

Posted by: Jaffry at April 07, 2017 05:29 PM (1ljSq)

114 Syrians cheer Trump.

Abu Ivanka "father of Ivanka". The American

Posted by: redenzo at April 07, 2017 05:30 PM (5wSNN)

115
Ye-Wan-Ka

Posted by: runner at April 07, 2017 05:30 PM (c6/9Q)

116 Didn't want to get out of bed, or unable to move?

Like a side of beef.

Posted by: tu3031 at April 07, 2017 05:31 PM (qJhUV)

117 Reuters claims that Syrian warplanes are taking off from
the airport that our bombs "destroyed".

Posted by: Glenn John at April 07, 2017 05:31 PM (LilNs)

118 Stanley Goodspeed
Funny movie. No, it was just the outside of the thigh.

Posted by: floridacracker at April 07, 2017 05:31 PM (ykpj4)

119 If Trump notified congress within 48 hours of the military action

--

Trump notified 'leaders' of congress (twelve I think I read) before the missiles were launched (day before I think I read)

Posted by: Jaffry
-----
That's what I figured.

Posted by: Dang at April 07, 2017 05:32 PM (8b+oT)

120 How much does a Tomahawk cost? $1 million, I'm told.
So a lot to fire off 60.

But Obama's put more cash on a pallet for the Iranians (destined to fund terror, that's why they wanted it in cash).

And it was the lightest, least-engaged way to send a message

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 05:33 PM (SIY7D)

121 Didn't want to get out of bed, or unable to move?

Like a side of beef.

Like a sack of potatoes.

Posted by: wth at April 07, 2017 05:33 PM (HgMAr)

122 Reuters claims that Syrian warplanes are taking off from the airport that our bombs "destroyed".

You can't really 'destroy' an airport runway.
You can put it back into operation within hours with the right equipment.

Posted by: Jaffry at April 07, 2017 05:33 PM (1ljSq)

123 Types deletes.

Maybe I'll just stay out of this one.

Posted by: eleven at April 07, 2017 05:34 PM (qUNWi)

124 Over / under on how many weeks until Dems find a way to turn this against Trump? Okay, days.
Posted by: Ray Van Dune
-----------

Here's a funny item, the local uber-progressive rag, a Gannett owned paper published an editorial cartoon today showing Uncle Sam with his head in the sand, surrounded by the bodies of gassed children.

Obviously it went to press before the missiles flew. But, NOW what will they say? 3...2...1...

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 07, 2017 05:34 PM (ZO497)

125 You injected the little one decon'd your self and if you where still able to you injected the second pen. The you went around and to all your buddies to see if they managed you use either pen and if not you did it for them.

To practice they used to throw tear gas at us so often I became nearly imune to the dang stuff.

Posted by: Big V at April 07, 2017 05:20 PM (ep6C/)

Once during training, where they show us how to use the auto-injectors, (usually against a piece of cardboard, for dramatic effect), the instructor accidentally injected himself. He was in the hospital for about two weeks, I think.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at April 07, 2017 05:34 PM (EJFGC)

126 Ye-Wan-Ka

Friend says that a viral cult of worship of the goddess Ivanka is taking hold in China

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 05:36 PM (SIY7D)

127 I wish to comment about the painting of Julian below.

I read a novel, based on the legend about Julian killing his parents, in which Julian becomes "the patron saint of Those Who Have Sinned Uncommonly."

The Julian story is VERY medieval-y.

Posted by: mnw at April 07, 2017 05:36 PM (2fV9Y)

128 Now I'd like to see Trump ask our military to take out an ISIS training camp or convoy somewhere. Probably not Syria since heavy Russian presence just take out some ISIS bad guys to send the message that we hate you all and all we really cared about with Assad is the CWs.

Posted by: PaleRider at April 07, 2017 05:37 PM (eASYU)

129 So if we didn't destroy runways or aircraft at Syrian
airport near Homs then what was the point?

Posted by: Glenn John at April 07, 2017 05:37 PM (LilNs)

130 125 You injected the little one decon'd your self and if you where still able to you injected the second pen. The you went around and to all your buddies to see if they managed you use either pen and if not you did it for them.

To practice they used to throw tear gas at us so often I became nearly imune to the dang stuff.

Posted by: Big V at April 07, 2017 05:20 PM (ep6C/)

Once during training, where they show us how to use the auto-injectors, (usually against a piece of cardboard, for dramatic effect), the instructor accidentally injected himself. He was in the hospital for about two weeks, I think.
Posted by: Sticky Wicket at April 07, 2017 05:34 PM (EJFGC)

I never would have made it in the military. That sounds scary.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 05:37 PM (u8Ywb)

131 "So Trump found an artful way to get out of the box they were putting him in, while accomplishing a few other goals as well."

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 05:12 PM (SIY7D)

Just imagine what we'd be seeing today on every media outlet and cable show if Trump had chosen to do nothing but let Nickie Haley toss word bombs. They would be all be singing a chorus in unison that Trump was A) weak B) indecisive C) unable to be taken seriously on the international stage D) had an administration paralyzed by confusion and E) this must be final, total proof that Trump truly was in Vladimir Putin's pocket and didn't dare cross him.And suddenly, with a single decisive action, every one of those story lines has taken a direct tomahawk hit. Combine this with the Gorsuch win, and this is the best day politically that the Trump admin has had so far.

Posted by: Tom Servo at April 07, 2017 05:37 PM (KeRkT)

132 Re: Julian and his Parents:

I liked the Oedipus story better.

It was more Complex.

Posted by: Tom Servo at April 07, 2017 05:39 PM (KeRkT)

133 Reuters claims that Syrian warplanes are taking off from the airport that our bombs "destroyed".
----------------------------------
You can't really 'destroy' an airport runway.
You can put it back into operation within hours with the right equipment.
Posted by: Jaffry at April 07, 2017 05:33 PM (1ljSq)

I'm not a fan of the "that oughta show 'em" school of foreign policy bombing. Maybe it made sense when Reagan did it decades ago, but these days, symbolic bombing does nothing but make us an actor in the play.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 05:39 PM (Pz4pT)

134 132
8-|

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine. Glory to Kekistan! No Longer Accepting Harem Applicants at April 07, 2017 05:39 PM (IiN0U)

135 I am just so thankful that after eight horrible years the adults are back in charge.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 07, 2017 05:39 PM (8ZskC)

136 Not cool to kill your parents M'kay.

Posted by: eleven at April 07, 2017 05:39 PM (qUNWi)

137 Not cool to kill your parents M'kay.

It makes you an orphan...

Posted by: It's Me donna at April 07, 2017 05:40 PM (O2RFr)

138 "'Gas! Gas!' An ecstasy of fumbling."

Posted by: floridacracker at April 07, 2017 05:40 PM (ykpj4)

139 Posted by: Tom Servo at April 07, 2017 05:37 PM (KeRkT)

Maybe PDT should have had Melanias picture taken holding up a sign with a hashtag. Yea, that would help.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 05:40 PM (u8Ywb)

140 It makes you an orphan...

Well at least he got a sainthood out of it.

Posted by: eleven at April 07, 2017 05:41 PM (qUNWi)

141 But Obama's put more cash on a pallet for the Iranians (destined to fund terror, that's why they wanted it in cash).

And it was the lightest, least-engaged way to send a message

Yep. If we're going to send $59 million to the Middle East (other than to Israel), then this is the only way I want to see it done.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 07, 2017 05:41 PM (8ZskC)

142 At least Trump didn't deploy the #hashtags.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at April 07, 2017 05:42 PM (oVJmc)

143 Maybe PDT should have had Melanias picture taken holding up a sign with a hashtag. Yea, that would help.
Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 05:40 PM (u8Ywb)

She'd need a frown coach.

Posted by: hogmartin at April 07, 2017 05:42 PM (8nWyX)

144 Dulce et Decorum Est, by Wilfred Owen
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! - An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime ...
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under I green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, --
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at April 07, 2017 05:42 PM (Lqy/e)

145 So if we didn't destroy runways or aircraft at Syrian
airport near Homs then what was the point?

Posted by: Glenn John at April 07, 2017 05:37 PM (LilNs)
...........

Putin's birthday was in October and Trump wasn't president yet, so he decided to give him a fireworks display as a late present.

Posted by: Don Lemon at April 07, 2017 05:42 PM (HgMAr)

146 This truly is a dilemma as I agree that there are no good guys here, much like in the Iran/Iraq War where the more both sides butchered each other the better for humanity.
That having been said, President Trump's 'shot across the bow' serves a good purpose in letting all the bad guys (NORK's especially) that there are new rules to this game and the loser dies.

Posted by: LGoPs at April 07, 2017 05:42 PM (FoTxO)

147 We have to send our doughboys over there to stop the Huns from impaling babies on their bayonets.

Posted by: Woodrow Wilson at April 07, 2017 05:42 PM (IqV8l)

148 I never would have made it in the military. That sounds scary.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 05:37 PM (u8Ywb)

They didn't even stop training. Bundled the guy off to the hospital, (though they did collect up the remaining live auto-injectors, and lock them away). As you can imagine, the training was less dramatic after that incident.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at April 07, 2017 05:43 PM (EJFGC)

149 Can I say I wish we would have only sent 39 of these tomahawk missiles to Syria and spilt the other 20 between rebel camps in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Yeah I know it's easy when you're just playing Risk.

Posted by: Jack Sock at April 07, 2017 05:43 PM (bLhAC)

150 We did destroy Syrian planes and a bunch of other shit at the airport. Avoiding hitting the runway shows our precision.

Does Fat Boy Little Man now fear that a US sub will pop up in the Yellow Sea and land a Tomahawk on his head?

Candygram for Un! Candygram for Un! Sign here

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 05:43 PM (SIY7D)

151 A terrible thing to have to make such a decision.
I for one am grateful that we have a man such as PDT in that office and not the seemingly unending train of nihilists that the Dems supply us with.

Posted by: navybrat at April 07, 2017 05:43 PM (w7KSn)

152 It was more Complex.

Posted by: Tom Servo at April 07, 2017 05:39 PM (KeRkT)

And quite Electrafying.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 07, 2017 05:43 PM (rF0hx)

153 Re: Julian and his Parents:

I liked the Oedipus story better.

It was more Complex.

Posted by: Tom Servo at April 07, 2017 05:39 PM (KeRkT)

Your analogy is blinding.

Posted by: LGoPs at April 07, 2017 05:43 PM (FoTxO)

154 Wouldn't we be investigating this? If we aren't, why not?

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 05:22 PM (u8Ywb)

War cant wait for facts...

Posted by: shit bit at April 07, 2017 05:43 PM (1isJI)

155 So if we didn't destroy runways or aircraft at Syrian
airport near Homs then what was the point?
Posted by: Glenn John
---------------

Name that movie:

Posse Member: Let's go, he ain't hittin' nothin'!
Sheriff Langston: You idiot, he's hit everything he's aimed at!
Posse Member: Well, they ain't out of our jurisdiction 'til they reach the flattop!
Sheriff Langston: [rising in his saddle, until his hat is shot off] Today, my jurisdiction ends here.

http://tinyurl.com/lqu95so

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 07, 2017 05:43 PM (ZO497)

156 The only way to send a message to NK is to shoot at Nkorea

Posted by: runner at April 07, 2017 05:45 PM (c6/9Q)

157 Does Fat Boy Little Man now fear that a US sub will pop up in the Yellow Sea and land a Tomahawk on his head?

They ought pop one over the Pueblo and blow it out of the water. See if he gets the message then.

Posted by: tu3031 at April 07, 2017 05:45 PM (qJhUV)

158 silverado

Posted by: concrete girl at April 07, 2017 05:46 PM (eQSM0)

159 Give me a fucking break. You people aren't really this dumb, are you?
Posted by: Good Goy
---------------

This is the second time that you have posted that.

Concern:

[X] Noted

[ ] Not noted

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 07, 2017 05:47 PM (ZO497)

160 148 I never would have made it in the military. That sounds scary.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 05:37 PM (u8Ywb)

They didn't even stop training. Bundled the guy off to the hospital, (though they did collect up the remaining live auto-injectors, and lock them away). As you can imagine, the training was less dramatic after that incident.
Posted by: Sticky Wicket at April 07, 2017 05:43 PM (EJFGC)

Oh my, That poor guy.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 05:47 PM (u8Ywb)

161 >>>That's how paranoid they were about gas.

Military leaders worry about gas. Especially since most ground troops have been using their mask for a pillow and the JLIST has been stuck in the bottom of a ruck for more than a decade. But adversaries are prepping to use it.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at April 07, 2017 05:47 PM (lZ2Zo)

162 I'm a Mythogonist when it comes to Greek stories about the past involving women. Or maybe I just hate women and have a lisp.

Posted by: LGoPs at April 07, 2017 05:48 PM (FoTxO)

163 silverado
Posted by: concrete girl
---------------

"All I did was kiss a girl!"

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 07, 2017 05:48 PM (ZO497)

164 haha, that cleanup on aisle #157. Hat = off.

Posted by: hogmartin at April 07, 2017 05:48 PM (8nWyX)

165 Candygram for Un! Candygram for Un! Sign here

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 05:43 PM (SIY7D)

True Fact:

If you take an Easter Bunny 'peep', and squish it down, it ends up looking just like Kim Jong Un.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at April 07, 2017 05:48 PM (EJFGC)

166 Oh my, That poor guy.
Posted by: CaliGirl
---------

Pfft.

Posted by: Grenade accidents at April 07, 2017 05:49 PM (ZO497)

167 i actually watched that wednesday
oldie but goody
needs a sequel

remember...the two brothers rode off in the end and said, "we'll be back"

Posted by: concrete girl at April 07, 2017 05:50 PM (eQSM0)

168 From what I can glean, Trump heard of the effects and got righteously mad. Unlike Obama, Trump is a fundamentally decent human. My guess is this is the least of the many options available. BTW, all of the NatSec people went with this.

Obama would have been "Oh well eggs, omelettes. What are the polls saying?" thing he always did.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at April 07, 2017 05:50 PM (cOHS7)

169 To knowingly use Sarin on ANYONE, much less kids and babies, is utterly barbaric. I don't know who's responsible. Whoever is needs to be obliterated in such a decisive, total way that nobody will ever dare use Sarin or its analogues again. As a Christian my personal obligation is to pray for everyone involved, including the perpetrators. As a Christian who recognizes that Romans 13 describes the legitimate function of government to bear a sword of justice against evildoers, I implore the US and regional allies to turn whoever is doing this, wherever they are, to ash and rubble. Do it wisely and responsibly, but do it decisively.

----------------------------------------------------------

Atomic Bombs are hell on ones health too. We knew when we unleashed them on Japanese targets that lots of children, yes babies, would die. That is why I am not a fan of those who bring their morality into military decisions. In the end the "good guy" is the one who has a better world view for the peace that would follow, or more important the one who wins.

Should you go out of your way to kill kids, well of course not, but if it necessary to destroy our enemy that kids must die, well so be it. That is war, and the prime reason we have had a checkered record since World War II in winning wars is this morality and court room mentality that has taken over the battlefield.

War is not a Church, or Comic Book Hero, or a Court Room. It is why we should avoid them unless it is needed. Neo-Cons don't understand that, and the same goes for Progressives.

With that said I am rather neutral on the whole affair in Syria, mostly because bombing this or that side will not mean much. Unless...we do it to the point that some committed Islamist side wins, or we actually do Iraq II.

Islamic Democracy does not work, how many times must this be explained, and proven, for the thick minded to understand.

Posted by: William Eaton at April 07, 2017 05:50 PM (MuTTO)

170 Paolo's cousin, Saolo, he told me he gave Good Shiksa the loving.

Posted by: Paolo at April 07, 2017 05:50 PM (9AakA)

171 Does Fat Boy Little Man now fear that a US sub will pop up in the Yellow Sea and land a Tomahawk on his head?

Candygram for Un! Candygram for Un! Sign here

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 05:43 PM (SIY7D)
.............

Speaking of the crazy fat kid, he likes to use VX nerve agent, just ask his brother.
Oops, too late.

Posted by: wth at April 07, 2017 05:50 PM (HgMAr)

172 When I voted for Trump, I was voting for Not-Hillary. He was not my first or second choice as the nominee in the Primaries.
He has already done several things that please me, that Clinton would never have done.
I am under no illusion that he is a Conservative, and he will do many things I disagree with.
That's life.

Posted by: kraken at April 07, 2017 05:51 PM (zSVEm)

173 Posted by: Good Goy at April 07, 2017 05:45 PM (r4R7C)

Time for you to take a hike.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois at April 07, 2017 05:51 PM (d76uN)

174
So if we didn't destroy runways or aircraft at Syrian airport near Homs then what was the point?

Because runways can be patched up and back in operation within a day or so.If you want to take an airbase out of operation you hit the fuel storage,radar and communication centers, repair hangers and the housing barracks.

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at April 07, 2017 05:51 PM (lKyWE)

175 OregonMuse, Ace, SOMEONE please blog about this:

$%&^@#&^%$#&!!!

Motherfuckin' LEFT-WING political operative and Democratic Party strategy gets caught selling photos and movies of BABIES BEING RAPED AND TORTURED and all other types of SADISTIC CHILD PORN including STALKER CREEPSHOTS he TOOK HIMSELF of kids on the street, and he gets a slap on the goddamn wrist sentence of just six MONTHS (not years -- MONTHS) simply because he is a left-wing darling powerbroker:

http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/ SF-political-consultant-to-be-jailed-6-months-in-11058565.php

Any word from the "rape culture" SJW crowd?

Hmmmm?

Silence.

Posted by: zombie at April 07, 2017 05:52 PM (DQ4Fv)

176 Democratic Party strategy = Democratic Party strategist

Posted by: zombie at April 07, 2017 05:52 PM (DQ4Fv)

177 174. Bingo. HE and incendiaries for round #1, then a follow-up with cluster munitions to snuff the responders.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine. Glory to Kekistan! No Longer Accepting Harem Applicants at April 07, 2017 05:53 PM (IiN0U)

178 On Sunday morning, will Chuck Todd and the Greek Boy Toy keep up the narrative of the Trumpsters colluding with the Russians to steal the election with clips of Hillary recently saying so (and misogny!).

That was the plan

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 05:53 PM (SIY7D)

179 Here's a funny item, the local uber-progressive rag,
a Gannett owned paper published an editorial cartoon today showing
Uncle Sam with his head in the sand, surrounded by the bodies of gassed
children.

Obviously it went to press before the missiles flew. But, NOW what will they say? 3...2...1...

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 07, 2017 05:34 PM (ZO497)

I have a special dislike for all the Gannett newspapers all around the country. They all print the same thing, with some local news as a filler. The editorial cartoons are usually mean and disguising.

Posted by: Colin at April 07, 2017 05:53 PM (RS7vk)

180 Islamic Democracy does not work, how many times must this be explained, and proven, for the thick minded to understand.
Posted by: William Eaton at April 07, 2017 05:50 PM (MuTTO)

Back in the day, we used to criticize the left, saying they were of a mindset where they thought communism hadn't yet failed, it just hadn't yet been implemented the right way, by the right people. Once it was, we would all see it actually works!

Same can be said of our "exporting democracy to the Middle East" crowd.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 05:54 PM (Pz4pT)

181 The world is full of bad actors doing bad acts. How is any of this our fight?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 07, 2017 05:54 PM (LTHVh)

182 http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/ SF-political-consultant-to-be-jailed-6-months-in-11058565.php

Any word from the "rape culture" SJW crowd?

Hmmmm?

Silence.

Posted by: zombie at April 07, 2017 05:52 PM (DQ4Fv)

I got an error on the link......

Posted by: LGoPs at April 07, 2017 05:55 PM (FoTxO)

183 Islamic Democracy does not work, how many times must this be explained, and proven, for the thick minded to understand.
Posted by: William Eaton at April 07, 2017 05:50 PM (MuTTO)

Back in the day, we used to criticize the left, saying they were of a mindset where they thought communism hadn't yet failed, it just hadn't yet been implemented the right way, by the right people. Once it was, we would all see it actually works!

Same can be said of our "exporting democracy to the Middle East" crowd.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 05:54 PM (Pz4pT)

Or more accurately, socialism, in all its variations.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 05:55 PM (Pz4pT)

184 "May God guide PDT and give him the wisdom of Solomon. Which is a prayer with which I'm sure Mark would agree."

Indeed, I very much would.

Posted by: Doctor Cynic at April 07, 2017 05:55 PM (nkrB2)

185
Just gonna set this down lightly and walk away...
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/04/doctor-syrian-chemical-attack-jihadist-u-k-video/

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at April 07, 2017 05:55 PM (HTdUD)

186 meh.

20/20. Bullshit. Hindsight. Assemble as necessary.

As I said this morning, by refusing the immigrants who wanted to come here, Trump forced them, women and babies, to stay in their own country.

They, women and children, were subsequently murdered with conventional and chemical weapons. Any of you that think that is not a factor is a fucking sociopath.

This is not political partisan bullshit. Put yourself in that place. No matter what you do, people will die horribly because of your decision.

Anything that even has a hint of the Holocaust must be stopped , terminated with extreme prejudice. We joke about Hitler but that horror was only 70 years ago. Six million.
I can't even get my mind around the fact that men did this to men.

Why us? Because we are the ONLY fucking grownups left that remember , understand and are capable of action.

I voted for Trump to make EXACTLY this call.

Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 05:55 PM (DqbYT)

187 OM thanks for this, and I'm sure you're doc friend is a solid guy, and - in general - of course what he says is "true". But .... descriptions of maiming and death via conventional ordnance can be/are just as repulsive.

I know western culture is absolutely committed to its poorly thought through selective "moral" revulsion when it comes to CW - and nuclear weapons, too, don't forget, they're specially bad even if their killing mechanisms are nearly identical to conventional explosives.

But it will never be persuasive. Immaterial, as the CW issue is a limited one, and the US will always try to deter their use on our forces with some serious threats (well, under some leaderships, anyway).

And the largest user of CW in the region WAS decisively dealt with. He even stood trial for his CW use. His fate, of course, did not deter these Syrian a**holes from using CW. Life, generally, doesn't work that way.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 07, 2017 05:56 PM (QDnY+)

188 The world is full of bad actors doing bad acts. How is any of this our fight?
Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 07, 2017 05:54 PM (LTHVh)

World police gotta police the world.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 05:56 PM (Pz4pT)

189 185
Just gonna set this down lightly and walk away...
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/04/doctor-syrian-chemical-attack-jihadist-u-k-video/

Gateway pundit is a questionable site for me...

Posted by: It's Me donna at April 07, 2017 05:56 PM (O2RFr)

190 I got an error on the link......
Posted by: LGoPs

Remove space before "SF":

http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/ SF-political-consultant-to-be-jailed-6-months-in-11058565.php

Posted by: zombie at April 07, 2017 05:56 PM (DQ4Fv)

191 90 I know about Sarin too....those photos aren't Sarin victims....
Posted by: Beto Ochoa (@Beto_In_Austin) at April 07, 2017 05:24 PM (hCdMd)

Been reading up on sarin coupled with what I was taught in the military. I'm seriously doubtful this was sarin also.

I'll believe it when I see some sort of solid evidence. Has anyone heard of any kind of body counts with this last attack? If it's really sarin, there's going to be at least a moderately high body count.

Posted by: Soona at April 07, 2017 05:56 PM (Fmupd)

192 If you haven't stop by Dilbert's joint. As I was posting yesterday, this is not just about Syria or Russia. It was for the Chinese leader, the fat Nork, our allies, and the world.

USA is under new management. Now management means go and break things without rebuilding them.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at April 07, 2017 05:57 PM (cOHS7)

193 Military leaders worry about gas.

That is an interesting topic about strategy/tactics and measures/counter measures. You have to worry about everything and it still isn't enough.

You try to imagine all the possible methods of attack and then your enemy does something unexpected. Even worse, your enemy does something expected and you still are unprepared.

Add in some misinformation or deliberate disinformation and the threat matrix grows by an order of magnitude.

Of course there are budget limits and practicality limits.

There are even the semi-jocular headlines about the Pentagon having a plan to defend Earth from Extra-Terrestrial Alien attacks. There probably is one, probably classified, and stored in locked file cabinets at all major commands.

I loved the movie Battleship, and Battle for Los Angles. There were some great visuals of the fleet throwing bow waves in open water. There were nits to pick in both movies, but they were entertaining.

Posted by: Jaffry at April 07, 2017 05:57 PM (1ljSq)

194 As I said this morning, by refusing the immigrants who wanted to come here, Trump forced them, women and babies, to stay in their own country.

They, women and children, were subsequently murdered with conventional and chemical weapons. Any of you that think that is not a factor is a fucking sociopath.

Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 05:55 PM (DqbYT)

That's some first rate insanity you're peddling, chum.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 05:58 PM (Pz4pT)

195 Military leaders worry about gas.

Me too...

Posted by: Hillary! at April 07, 2017 05:58 PM (O2RFr)

196 194 As I said this morning, by refusing the immigrants who wanted to come here, Trump forced them, women and babies, to stay in their own country.

Except they're still coming here....

Posted by: Hillary! at April 07, 2017 05:59 PM (O2RFr)

197
Military leaders worry about gas.
NBC creates chaos on the battle field and military leaders don't like chaos

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at April 07, 2017 05:59 PM (lKyWE)

198 ...As I said this morning, by refusing the immigrants who wanted to come
here, Trump forced them, women and babies, to stay in their own country...

No. These people could have gone to multiple other countries. Isn't it fascinating that none of the rich ME countries, e.g., Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, took any of these people in. Answer that before you go about blaming Trump for this.

Posted by: LGoPs at April 07, 2017 06:00 PM (FoTxO)

199 Ah chemrical weapons. Best to keep them in family, you know?

Posted by: zombie Kim Jong-nam at April 07, 2017 06:00 PM (HgMAr)

200

Gateway pundit is a questionable site for me...

Here's the link to Breitbart:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/l83pfv8

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at April 07, 2017 06:00 PM (oVJmc)

201 I certainly don't wish this on any innocent person much less a child but frankly this sounds better than many other kinds of death. for one there seems to exist a chance of survival. What about children killed in just plain regular bomb raids? that sounds quite possibly worse in terms of pain and chances.

At the end of the day being familiar with the effects of sarin doesn't make person a better judge of theas type decisions. We can't save all the children on the world.

Posted by: kata at April 07, 2017 06:00 PM (qbOdg)

202 Give me a fucking break. You people aren't really this dumb, are you?
Posted by: Good Goy
****

GFY. FOAD.

Posted by: Tilikum KAW at April 07, 2017 06:00 PM (0x/TW)

203 Many Eemergency Action Messages(EAM) messages being transmitted from Andrews AFB on 8229mhz. This is never a good sign. No SKYKING messages...yet.

Posted by: Under Fire at April 07, 2017 06:00 PM (nN3W/)

204 Gateway pundit is a questionable site for me...

Here's the link to Breitbart:

Breitbart lately also...

Posted by: Hillary! at April 07, 2017 06:01 PM (O2RFr)

205 as far as being called a sociopath by critters on the Internet, meh.

Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at April 07, 2017 06:01 PM (9AakA)

206 The world is full of bad actors doing bad acts. How is any of this our fight?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 07, 2017 05:54 PM (LTHVh)

World police gotta police the world.

Posted by: BurtTC

=====

Obama spent 8 years bowing, scraping, belittling, weakening, corrupting, demoralizing , and shitting on America.

He destroyed our reputation internationally to the point that Putin thinks he can run rough shod through out the Middle East and China thinks it can threaten Taiwan with no fear.

Our "allies" don't trust us , the world is confused by us, and we don't know who the hell we are anymore.

We may not be able to clean up their mess but we sure as hell have to clean up our own.

There are two positions to be in in the real world.

In fear or feared.

I know which one I choose.

Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 06:01 PM (DqbYT)

207 Who pays the salary of the world policeman?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 07, 2017 06:01 PM (IqV8l)

208 My son is an early and strong supporter of PDT. The missile attack gave him pause. I asked him whether the righteous have a duty to check evil? He answered affirmatively. All PDT did was check evil. My son then voiced concern about whether we have any allies. A good question, but the existence or not does not dispel ones duty to check evil. I then directed him to watch High Noon for a fictional example. I think you'll appreciate the reference, O'Muse.

Posted by: Locke Common at April 07, 2017 06:01 PM (n95sU)

209 "As I said this morning, by refusing the immigrants who wanted to come here, Trump forced them, women and babies, to stay in their own country."

Unless things have changed, not the situation.

By definition, applicants for asylum or refugee placement will be outside Syria - we can't even vet them in Jordan or Turkey or Beirut, no chance we could do any normal work on them *inside* Syria.

This was one of the (many) despicable falsehoods of the absurd brouhaha over the original EO (not talking about you, Mortimer, here). The aspiring asylees/refugees, by definition, were out of immediate danger. We cannot process them in areas of danger. We don't operate there (I mean our relevant State operations).

People flee Country X (in this case, Syria). They squat with relatives, or informally somewhere, or in refugee camps. UNHCR and a host of NGOs minister to their needs. Applicants for entry into the US, Canada, or Europe come from these locations, not directly from combat zones.

Use of force decisions always involve some moral stress, this one included, but the halt in refugee/asylum admissions from Syria is not a factor here, as a practical matter.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 07, 2017 06:02 PM (vP09u)

210 Same can be said of our "exporting democracy to the Middle East" crowd.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 05:54 PM (Pz4pT)

---------------------------------------------------------

I remember reading about all the Iranian liberals, leftists, communist, and feminists supporting the downfall of the Shah. It would be freedom, they said.

Are the Neo-Cons any different? Not in my mind.

Posted by: William Eaton at April 07, 2017 06:02 PM (MuTTO)

211 I eat a little Sarin every day to build up my resistance. After a couple months, I started to like it. It tastes kinda like corned beef.

Posted by: Biff Hardslab at April 07, 2017 06:02 PM (n3hky)

212 Re: Gannet Newspaper Cartoon

The left always underestimates Trump's ability to quickly do the unexpected, and they keep getting caught flatfooted because of it. Think of the dilemma this has suddenly put the Congressional Dems in - for 30 years, their go-to line has been that Republican presidents are willing to needlessly provoke Russia and even to risk war with Russia, when instead we should be focusing on accommodating them and trying to get along peacefully, let them have their own sphere of influence, etc., etc.

But now, to go back to that line means they would have to repudiate everything they have been saying about Trump and Putin for the last 90 days, and since they can't do that they have no idea what to say. Which is why today almost all of them are hiding out from the news and trying to catch an early plane back home for the Easter recess.

Posted by: Tom Servo at April 07, 2017 06:02 PM (KeRkT)

213 129
So if we didn't destroy runways or aircraft at Syrian
airport near Homs then what was the point?

----------------------------------------

We went through this in the first gulf war. Make a big hole in the runway, fill it up the next day. Knock out a control tower, get a jeep with radios. Blow up hangars, park outside. Etc, etc.

Posted by: Javems at April 07, 2017 06:02 PM (yOqwj)

214 Gateway pundit is a questionable site for me...
Posted by: It's Me donna�

For me, too -- in about one out of 10, 000 times.

You want to avoid those odds. I understand.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at April 07, 2017 06:02 PM (HTdUD)

215 The Democrats have until Sunday morning to get a narrative decided on, who wants to bet that it will be anti Trump? And everybody will have McCain and his girlfriend on jumping up and down screaming War!!!

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 07, 2017 06:03 PM (6Ll1u)

216 Military leaders worry about gas.

My Marine buddy said they were told it was a foregone conclusion that the Iraqis would use gas during Desert Storm. He doesn't know why they didn't. His thought was, if they did, we'd nuke Baghdad or something.

Posted by: tu3031 at April 07, 2017 06:03 PM (qJhUV)

217 ''14 heartbraking photos that will make you say 'fuck having an America First foreign policy 'n shiet.''

Posted by: The Deplorable Mr. Trumpkin at April 07, 2017 06:03 PM (Mm6Dr)

218 Trump forced them, women and babies, to stay in their own country.

--

Why did the women and babies have to remain in the war zone while the men of military age went to Europe as refugees?

Posted by: Jaffry at April 07, 2017 06:03 PM (1ljSq)

219 I know which one I choose.
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 06:01 PM (DqbYT)

World police it is.

You look nice in your uniform. Have a nice day, officer.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 06:04 PM (Pz4pT)

220 The use of Sarin gas is a terrible terrible thing. But, that said, terrible things happen everywhere in this world, all the time.

I come from the realpolitik side of the fence. I can understand the value of Trump ordering the strike. Its unpredictable, which may aid him in his negotiation in other powers. It'll make China think twice (and thrice) about what to do with North Korea. It will show everyone else in the world that there is a new American president, and he will use force. It'll annoy Russia, which helps solve the domestic problem of him having half the country think that he is Putin's poodle.

Those reasons make sense to me -- reasons that are directly tied to the US national interest. The "moral" kind of reason that points to some condition being horrible and demands the USA help -- that I really can't support. That's the same rationale that demands we take in refugees. The same reasoning that will get us into wars that we don't need, spending tons of borrowed cash in a way that does not aid US interests.

Posted by: Revenant at April 07, 2017 06:04 PM (yXLbm)

221 Posted by: zombie at April 07, 2017 05:52 PM (DQ4Fv)

How the hell is this guy only serving 6 months? He's disgusting and deserves to burn in hell.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 07, 2017 06:04 PM (u8Ywb)

222 Been out of the loop a little on all this.

The description I've heard about the victims seems to me more like chlorine than Sarin.

Am I way out on a limb here, is this Sarin no doubt?

Posted by: weirdflunky at April 07, 2017 06:04 PM (HOy6O)

223 So , Assad gassed an ISIS (chopping off heads ! boiling people in oil live! crucifixions!) village. Let's stop him from doing that again.

Posted by: runner at April 07, 2017 06:05 PM (c6/9Q)

224 Posted by: zombie at April 07, 2017 05:56 PM (DQ4Fv)

Thanks. That just made my rage even more incandescent about the double standard we have in this country. Basically, if you're a Leftist, you get away with everything.

Posted by: LGoPs at April 07, 2017 06:05 PM (FoTxO)

225 Mithridates of Pontus was big on ingesting poisons himself. or at least spread around stories that he did

Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at April 07, 2017 06:05 PM (9AakA)

226 Thanks ignoramus and Deplorable Male Logic for
the info on what we did destroy etc at Homs airport.

Any chance we could take out Assad?

Posted by: Glenn John at April 07, 2017 06:05 PM (LilNs)

227
Starving to death is the worst way to go

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at April 07, 2017 06:05 PM (lKyWE)

228 Putin and the Russians sell military stuff to Syria, Trump blows up military stuff in Syria, Syrians buy more military stuff from Putin and the Russians.

Obviously, Trump is in bed with Putin and the Russians!!! Wake Up!!!

Posted by: mfmers at April 07, 2017 06:06 PM (XoldI)

229 so not our fight. so not need to be involved.

Posted by: runner at April 07, 2017 06:06 PM (c6/9Q)

230 "frankly this sounds better than many other kinds of death."

I want to die quietly, in my sleep, like my grandfather.

And not screaming and crying, like the passengers in his car.

Posted by: Tom Servo at April 07, 2017 06:07 PM (KeRkT)

231 This was one of the (many) despicable falsehoods of the absurd brouhaha
over the original EO (not talking about you, Mortimer, here). The
aspiring asylees/refugees, by definition, were out of immediate danger.
We cannot process them in areas of danger. We don't operate there (I
mean our relevant State operations).

===

Trump's EO travel ban was presented by the American press as a Muslim ban worldwide.

Think the refugees squatting in the dirt in Syria knwo jack shit about what a Hawaiian judge said?

Hey , I was pro-immigration restriction long before it was cool . Still am . But if you listened to Trump talk last night about the victims, you realize the weight of any decision.

And BurtTC , if you think that being impacted by babies choking to death on their own vomit is insanity then you are exactly who I was talking about.

Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 06:07 PM (DqbYT)

232 Starving to death is the worst way to go

I've heard dying of thirst is like dying from the worst hangover imaginable.

Posted by: eleven at April 07, 2017 06:08 PM (qUNWi)

233 I'm going to introduce the theory that Assad use chem weapons and conventional on that attack and then hit a stockpile of terrorist chem weapons that were getting ready to be used.

I like confusion.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois at April 07, 2017 06:08 PM (d76uN)

234 I eat a little Sarin every day to build up my resistance. After a couple months, I started to like it. It tastes kinda like corned beef.

Posted by: Biff Hardslab at April 07, 2017 06:02 PM (n3hky)
............

Ah. Wish I should have thought of that with the VX.

Posted by: zombie Kim Jong-nam at April 07, 2017 06:08 PM (HgMAr)

235 Same can be said of our "exporting democracy to the Middle East" crowd.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 05:54 PM (Pz4pT)

---------------------------------------------------------

I remember reading about all the Iranian liberals, leftists, communist, and feminists supporting the downfall of the Shah. It would be freedom, they said.

Are the Neo-Cons any different? Not in my mind.
Posted by: William Eaton at April 07, 2017 06:02 PM (MuTTO)

Neocons is probably the wrong term. There's a certain subset of leftovers from the Reagan years, and another who were Bushies, both I and II, and I don't think they, all of them, have much to say of any relevance anymore.

They've perhaps morphed into something else, grabbed others from this part of the spectrum or that, and what we now have are the kneejerk McCainiacs, who seem to believe we're the World Police. And cannot or will not entertain any notion that we shouldn't be.

I don't know what to call them, really. Neocons just doesn't sound right to me anymore.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 06:08 PM (Pz4pT)

236 EO. WHat if it get to SC and then Kenny flips out like he likes to do and we get 5-4 - the wrong 5-4 ?

Posted by: runner at April 07, 2017 06:08 PM (c6/9Q)

237 tu3031- our CCF sarge in the UK told us that if Saddam had gassed UK troops, he'd have got nuked. whether or not Maggie T would have followed up on it, that was what British commanders were telling the troops and, one assumes, Iraqi diplomats.

Saddam contented himself with bombing Jews instead because why not.

Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at April 07, 2017 06:09 PM (9AakA)

238 tu3031
We prepared for it, watched movies of sheep getting gassed, but in the end there was more trouble over the PB tabs...

Posted by: floridacracker at April 07, 2017 06:09 PM (ykpj4)

239 Any chance U S military could take out Assad? is what I meant.

Posted by: Glenn John at April 07, 2017 06:09 PM (LilNs)

240 I love New York Post headlines.

On a slower news day Queens boy Don Rickles would have made the cover today.
Most days, China's Mr Big with an inset of Fat Boy Little Man.
Mitch Nukes Chuck! surely would have been the cover.
But today it's TRUMP STRIKES

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 06:09 PM (SIY7D)

241 And BurtTC , if you think that being impacted by babies choking to death on their own vomit is insanity then you are exactly who I was talking about.

Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 06:07 PM (DqbYT)

I know.

I'm who you are calling a sociopath. Because I won't go to war with you.

Yes, you are insane.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 06:10 PM (Pz4pT)

242 What's up with all these Kims in Korea?

amirite?

Posted by: eleven at April 07, 2017 06:10 PM (qUNWi)

243 Prison Planets Paul Joseph Watson said he is now off the Trump train, so we got that going for us.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 07, 2017 06:10 PM (6Ll1u)

244 World police it is.

You look nice in your uniform. Have a nice day, officer.

Posted by: BurtTC
===

Enjoy life in your bunker. I'm sure that they will crown you Lord Humongus of your homeowners association.

Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 06:11 PM (DqbYT)

245
We went through this in the first gulf war. Make a big hole in the runway, fill it up the next day. Knock out a control tower, get a jeep with radios. Blow up hangars, park outside. Etc, etc.
Posted by: Javems at April 07, 2017 06:02 PM (yOqwj)

Kill the pilots and their crews while they're sleeping in the Barracks?

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at April 07, 2017 06:11 PM (lKyWE)

246 Any chance U S military could take out Assad? is what I meant.

Posted by: Glenn John at April 07, 2017 06:09 PM (LilNs)

Yes, without question. Whether committing the lives, money, equipment etc. and dealing with what comes after is worth doing so is another story.

Posted by: hogmartin at April 07, 2017 06:12 PM (8nWyX)

247 Ah. Wish I should have thought of that with the VX.

Posted by: zombie Kim Jong-nam at April 07, 2017 06:08 PM (HgMAr)

Too late now. You have to start early with that kinda thing.

Posted by: Biff Hardslab at April 07, 2017 06:13 PM (n3hky)

248 'm going to introduce the theory that Assad use chem
weapons and conventional on that attack and then hit a stockpile of
terrorist chem weapons that were getting ready to be used.

I like confusion.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois at April 07, 2017 06:08 PM (d76uN)

ISIS does pretty terrible things to syrian army and civilians. that village that got hit ? who know who was there - sounds like retribution from Assad to send a message. only way to deal with those barbarians. too hard to do house to house, they'll be captured and probably have no training and equipment or desire. so he dealt withe them. my working theory

Posted by: runner at April 07, 2017 06:13 PM (c6/9Q)

249 Anything that even has a hint of the Holocaust must be stopped , terminated with extreme prejudice. We joke about Hitler but that horror was only 70 years ago. Six million.

Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 05:55 PM (DqbYT)

-----------------------------------

That is why we allied ourselves to Joseph Stalin's Soviet Union in WWII...

Just saying, war is hell, and not a morality test.

We have Jihadists slaughtering us in the West, and the Muslim populations that give them room to swim, are growing each day.

Assad, a Alawite, knows full well what will happen to his people if the Sunni Arab majority gets to decide their fate as a people. Same goes for the Christian population living there. Same goes for the Kurds.

In other words our actions to take down Assad could easily lead to the slaughter of a lot people. Does that make us morally superior?

Considering the vast majority of Islamic attacks against us tend to be Sunni Arabs, what does that say about our intelligence or future?

Posted by: William Eaton at April 07, 2017 06:13 PM (MuTTO)

250 "EO. WHat if it get to SC and then Kenny flips out like he likes to do and we get 5-4 - the wrong 5-4 ?"

Won't happen. Expect an appeal soon including on the issues of (1) district court judges issuing nationwide injunctions, and (2) giving standing to foreigners abroad with no green cards or visas.

This could even go 9-0. It's a least 7-2.

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 06:13 PM (SIY7D)

251 Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 06:07 PM (DqbYT)

I know.

I'm who you are calling a sociopath. Because I won't go to war with you.

Yes, you are insane.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 06:10 PM (Pz4pT)

There are women and children being enslaved in Europe, Mortimer. Yes, it's true! They get kidnapped in places like Romania, and taken to England and Italy and Germany, and turned into sex slaves.

Are you going to war there?

There are wide swaths of Asia that have children wallowing in filth, until they're scooped up for slave labor, or sex or death or some combination thereof.

Are you going to war there?

What about South America? Do you KNOW how many women and children are being killed and enslave there? Have you even considered?

Let's not talk about Africa.

So pick your war, Mortimer. Go in and RESCUE all the poor suffering souls on this planet.

What's that? You can't?

Why not?

You don't have a reason why. So get off your moral high horse.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 06:14 PM (Pz4pT)

252 You don't want to be the world police?

No problem. Nature abhors a vacuum.

China and Russia are itching to take the job.

What could possibly go wrong?

Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 06:15 PM (DqbYT)

253 This could even go 9-0. It's a least 7-2.

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 06:13 PM (SIY7D)

i dont't know what the rest of that means, bu I like the odds !

Posted by: runner at April 07, 2017 06:15 PM (c6/9Q)

254 This could even go 9-0. It's a least 7-2.

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 06:13 PM (SIY7D)

Politics matters more than that. I highly doubt it will be 9-0 or 7-2. It will be 5-4, simply because a victory at SCOTUS by the left will be a black eye to the Trump admin. Yes, that's enough for 3, probably 4 votes (perhaps Breyer's analytical side can overcome the politics).

Posted by: Revenant at April 07, 2017 06:16 PM (yXLbm)

255 252 You don't want to be the world police?

No problem. Nature abhors a vacuum.

China and Russia are itching to take the job.

What could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 06:15 PM (DqbYT)

----------------------------------------------------------

So killing German children was wrong in WWII?

Posted by: William Eaton at April 07, 2017 06:16 PM (MuTTO)

256 noood

Posted by: runner at April 07, 2017 06:17 PM (c6/9Q)

257 You don't have a reason why. So get off your moral high horse.

Posted by: BurtTC
===

Gosh. That's a familiar quote.

Barry Something , I think.

Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 06:17 PM (DqbYT)

258 What could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 06:15 PM (DqbYT)

You'll go to bed tonight feeling good about yourself and your moral preening.

That's all that matters.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 06:17 PM (Pz4pT)

259 And the moral equivalency begins.

Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 06:17 PM (DqbYT)

260 tu3031, you might recall the last-minute meeting in Geneva between SecState Baker and Iraqi FM Aziz ("the Christian"). You might recall the letter to Saddam from GHWB that was passed to, read by, and then refused by, Aziz.

Three redlines. With a clear, and historically unique, threat to back them up - US response by "all means at its disposal", which everyone knows means nukes.

The redlines: Iraqi involvement in anti-Coalition terror anywhere, sabotage of Kuwaiti oil facilities, use of WMD against Coalition forces. Ooops. Saddam violated all three (succeeding only in the oil well sabotage).

In the face of a clear, threat of nuclear retaliation, the only one ever made, formally and in writing, since Trinity, Saddam went ahead and tried to cross all the redlines.

A tiny, immaterial little bit of trivia that kinda sorta formed part of the picture as to why Saddam's continued existence in power was an intolerable and unmanageable risk after 9/11. The most reckless and aggressive regime, with resources, since WWII.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 07, 2017 06:18 PM (vP09u)

261 Is there anything on the books that says you can remove a SC judge if they get to old and senile?

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 07, 2017 06:18 PM (6Ll1u)

262 Impotent little internet scold.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 06:18 PM (Pz4pT)

263 What a horrible way to die; who give a sh!t how those noble savages destroy each other.

Posted by: Batterup at April 07, 2017 06:19 PM (mtGE/)

264 What's up with all these Kims in Korea?
...........

What problem behgin sekki?

Posted by: Kim Jong-Kim at April 07, 2017 06:19 PM (HgMAr)

265 China and Russia want to take on responsibility for billions of inbred low IQ populations? Deal with massive military expenditure and their own White Man's Burden? We tried it, it sounds better on paper.

Posted by: The Deplorable Mr. Trumpkin at April 07, 2017 06:19 PM (Mm6Dr)

266
You'll go to bed tonight feeling good about yourself and your moral preening.
===

No , asshole. I was making a very specific point that Trump was affected by the horrible death described in this post.

You went off on the World Police bullshit.

Whatever.

Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 06:19 PM (DqbYT)

267 Is there anything on the books that says you can remove a SC judge if they get to old and senile?

impeached ?

Posted by: runner at April 07, 2017 06:19 PM (c6/9Q)

268 259 And the moral equivalency begins.
Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 06:17 PM (DqbYT)

-----------------------------------------------

No moral equivalency, just stating that fighting the war itself has nothing to do with morality.

You make decisions that are best for your troops, your nation, and for your allies.

Why are supporting Sunni Arab forces slaughtering Christians in Syria? That is what will happen if the FSA (aka AQ / Muslim Brotherhood) wins.

Posted by: William Eaton at April 07, 2017 06:20 PM (MuTTO)

269 Off to war, Mortimer. Don't come back until you save everybody!

Have a nice day.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 07, 2017 06:20 PM (Pz4pT)

270 262
Impotent little internet scold.

Posted by: BurtTC
===

heh

Posted by: Mortimer - Finish Her! at April 07, 2017 06:20 PM (DqbYT)

271 175

Bad link

Posted by: Tuna at April 07, 2017 06:20 PM (jm1YL)

272 267: No. They can be impeached, but impeachment of a federal judge (much less one on SCOTUS) is an exceedingly rare event. (IIRC it has only happened once or twice in our history).

FDR threatened to pack the court, citing the need for younger justices to help the older justices handle the burden of their office. That was pure power politics of course, and created the "switch in time that saved nine" -- a drastic change in court rulings that permitted many of FDR's economic schemes to survive.

These changes gutted individual economic liberty (things like the right to contract), and set the foundations for the socialist state that we are slowly becoming.

Posted by: Revenant at April 07, 2017 06:22 PM (yXLbm)

273 I am gonna willow myself.

this is something thats been kicking around in my head since this damn thing happened...

what if they are BOTH bad, and Assad didnt drop Sarin from above but it was in a depot below where there was a conventional stroke and it damaged the storage?

the lack of droplets everywhere and the fact that we see people who arent in full MOPP gear running around without much ill effect has been bothering me... UNLESS... the Sarin is not dropped from above splattering everywhere with a film of poison, but instead coming from below. which would kill a bunch of people local to the site but not be as hideous in its effects to those who come in to film and clean up. Because you have to be in FULL GEAR just to decontaminate the victims (which i didnt see) unless they died from fumes coming from below which is more like a secondary exposure and totally horrible, too.

Its been eating at me. those rebels arent nice guys and they have been working on this sort of thing. these guys in this region like to put women and kids on top of sensitive sites like this either as camouflage or human shields. Perhaps this was an awful accident like so much can be in war. I dont THINK Assad would be that stupid, but i am SURE the rebels are. Im not convinced I'm right but it would explain much. I think Assad had too much to lose to use CW and i was surprised that he did it. I find the false flag theory too far fetched. its too much trouble. But awful mistake? Oh yeah. in that region, I believe that.

Take a look at Jonathan Langdale's Twitter feed from yesterday. He also has some reason that are non-crazy and non neocon as to why Trump would hit like this even if its not a sure thing that Assad did this. (this being a demonstration to the Chicoms of what might happen to N K if they dont rein them in) This could be a big twofer. Number one: Telling Assad to GTFO, showing hes Not Putins poodle, And TWO: this is a kind of demo to China that we arent dealing with Obamas waffling and telegraphing any more.

Posted by: Gushka Can Has Kittehs what plays fetch! at April 07, 2017 06:25 PM (YhV5r)

274 There are a lot of appealabele issues over the rulings on the EO.

The two "easiest" are (1) district court judges issuing nationwide injunctions, and (2) giving standing to foreigners abroad with no green cards or visas.

1) We can't have lower courts making policy for the entire country on big issues of national import. It invites chaos. SCOTUS knows this. The lower courts that blocked the EOs ignored lots of existing law. They'll get spanked on this.

2) The anti-EO decisions got cute by conflating standing issues that varied among the plaintiffs. But there's no way that foreigners abroad with no green cards or visas get standing to sue in US courts.

On these key points, it'll go at least 7-2 and even 9-0.

That won't stop the leftists from putting in shit in their separate opinions that echo the Ninth Circuit, but it won't control the outcome of the main part of the EOs

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 06:25 PM (SIY7D)

275 I was making a very specific point that Trump was affected by the horrible death described in this post.

If Trump will make bad policy decisions for this country, (which this is, IMO) because he's personally affected by the misery in other countries, he shouldn't have taken the job.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at April 07, 2017 06:28 PM (LTHVh)

276 Also, Kagan is slippery. She won't join the losing side to join in a bad dissent. Breyer too.

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 06:31 PM (SIY7D)

277 One quibble with Dr Huffman's tweets. Sarin and other nerve agents are actually acetylcholine esterase *inhibitors*. Acetylcholine is the neurotransmitter that sends the signal across the synapse while acetylcholine esterase is the enzyme that clears the acetylcholine out and "resets" the synapse. By inhibiting the esterase and preventing the synapse from resetting, Sarin essentially causes every affected nerve to get stuck in the midst of signal transmission.
Posted by: Papa Rod at April 07, 2017 05:23 PM (EEAs2)

Very true, but if you'll read it again, you'll see that's exactly what I said.

Posted by: Doctor Cynic at April 07, 2017 06:31 PM (m+7Nl)

278 "Is there anything on the books that says you can remove a SC judge if they get to old and senile?"

No. In legal circles, it is widely believed that both Thurgood Marshall and William Rhenquist were completely incapacitated during their last 2 - 3 years on the bench, to the point of being virtually comatose. What happens here is that the Justice's staff takes over and writes all of his opinions, does all the work. The worst part about this is that one of the most important jobs in the nation ends up getting usurped by 10-12 faceless unknowns, who collaborate with each other and with his allies in order to pretend that the Justice is still functional.

I recall that Rhenquist had a male nurse wheel him in to sit silently during oral
arguments, as I recall, which he almost always slept through. They worked hard to restrict any camera shots of him, since it really did look like a real life Weekend at Bernies whenever they rolled him around.

Posted by: Tom Servo at April 07, 2017 06:31 PM (KeRkT)

279 "We have 1000 Men in Syria... right now."

The number of American "advisors" in Iraq has soared past the 10K mark. However you do the math, that's a hell of a lot of "advising" going on.

Oh, also, there was a mystery message on my voice mail. Something about 1962 and Saigon. I couldn't quite make it all out.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 07, 2017 06:32 PM (noWW6)

280 Neostigmine and Sarin are very different classes of molecules. SARIN IS an organophosphate and there are numerous insecticides worldwide in the same chemical family. However, this is a horrible way to die because you are conscious for so long before you suffocate. I teach classes on this

Posted by: WAYNE at April 07, 2017 06:32 PM (5P3Vz)

281 Not to be picky but:

1) Don't bet on federal courts limiting the power of federal courts in that way. Its not likely to happen. SCOTUS and other federal courts are cute about making sure that judicial power is preserved.

2) People with green cards and visas certainly do have standing to sue in federal courts. Aliens sue in federal courts all the time. (Sometimes alien plaintiffs sue alien defendants in US court).

That's not to say that the 9th circuit got it right (it didn't) or that the Hawaii EO ruling was right (is isn't). But look for SCOTUS to do the least it can, and preserve federal court power while, in this instance, preserving the EO.

BTW -- standing arguments are a mess. They essentially are an out for the court to not decide things.

Posted by: Revenant at April 07, 2017 06:32 PM (yXLbm)

282 I've heard dying of thirst is like dying from the worst hangover imaginable.
Posted by: eleven at April 07, 2017 06:08 PM (qUNWi)
---------
Well then that's off the list!

Posted by: Weasel at April 07, 2017 06:35 PM (PLcIk)

283 280
Neostigmine and Sarin are very different classes of molecules. SARIN
IS an organophosphate and there are numerous insecticides worldwide in
the same chemical family. However, this is a horrible way to die
because you are conscious for so long before you suffocate. I teach
classes on this

Posted by: WAYNE at April 07, 2017 06:32 PM (5P3Vz)

I have seen animals that were exposed to insecticides and that was bad enough. But a few of the people i love were deployed out there and had extensive training in how to deal with this as well. One trained others what to do when it happens to you. This is an unimaginably horrible death. Thats why you want the best protective gear on even when cleaning up.

Posted by: Gushka Can Has Kittehs what plays fetch! at April 07, 2017 06:36 PM (YhV5r)

284 By the way, is The Bachelor on this evening?

Posted by: Susan Snowflake PhD, SjW at April 07, 2017 06:41 PM (Tyii7)

285 Posted by: Tami at April 07, 2017 05:08 PM (Enq6K)

"by getting rid of" I hear and cannot cite a theory that went something like this -- it went from Obama to Russia (flexible selling, trading, bartering) and then back to Assad.

But surely not. Especially with a crack team like Rice , Rhodes, Kerry etc.

Posted by: gracepc at April 07, 2017 06:43 PM (OU4q6)

286 "Not to be picky but:"

1) There's a whole bunch of law that says that district courts shouldn't issue orders that apply outside their jurisdiction with limited exceptions. The anti-EO courts ignored this. Just see the DOJ briefs. If this isn't slapped down, then you can have district courts throwing wrenches into government operations nationwide. SCOTUS knows that if this becomes common, there will and must be a response to cut back the courts. Kagan is the old bull that would rather fuck us all and slowly, rather than create a stampede.

In the Dreamer EO litigation, the Texas Court only ruled for its district, the Fifth Circuit for the Fifth Circuit, and then after SCOTUS had it and kicked it back, the Fifth Circuit only then made it nationwide.

2) Fits my point. If you have a green card you have immigration standing. That was a flaw in the first EO that the left exploited by getting courts to conflate the plaintiffs and also give standing to foreigners abroad who had no green card or visa

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 07, 2017 06:46 PM (SIY7D)

287 I'm out of town for a couple of days and I sure do get homesick fast. I miss WeaselDag and WeaselCat. And WeaselWoman.

Posted by: Weasel at April 07, 2017 06:46 PM (PLcIk)

288 Re #216 tu3031
"My Marine buddy said they were told it was a foregone conclusion that
the Iraqis would use gas during Desert Storm. He doesn't know why they
didn't. His thought was, if they did, we'd nuke Baghdad or something."

This absolutely 100% true. Since the United States cannot legally use chemical weapons, the only way to deter an enemy that doesn't care about international law is to threaten to use nukes in retaliation.

Now you understand why countries like North Korea or Syria (until the Israelis bombed their reactor) are trying so hard to get even a few nuclear weapons. These countries have sizeable chemical weapon stocks that would give even the US military a very hard time.

If they could use them.

Once they acquire even a minimal means of retaliating with nuclear weapons, you can't deter them with nuclear weapons.

This is the real danger of countries like North Korea acquiring even a few nukes: it puts their chemical weapons in back on the board.

Posted by: rayj at April 07, 2017 06:55 PM (pI/IV)

289 tu3031
"My Marine buddy said they were told it was a foregone conclusion that

the Iraqis would use gas during Desert Storm. He doesn't know why they

didn't. His thought was, if they did, we'd nuke Baghdad or something."

Or maybe Saddam was a bullshit artist.

Posted by: floridacracker at April 07, 2017 07:03 PM (ykpj4)

290 The Palaces. It's always those Palaces that you can't search.
That's my personal space; especially the bathroom service-provider!

Posted by: hillary (. ) (' ) at April 07, 2017 07:19 PM (nlbfN)

291 Where did this "dentist" meme come from? Assad is an ophthalmologist, an eye doctor, like Rand Paul.

Posted by: geoffb5 at April 07, 2017 07:22 PM (d3wbb)

292 Woo-hoo, Weaselly Woman
See how high she flies
Woo-hoo, Weaselly Woman
She's got the moon in her eye

Posted by: the eagles at April 07, 2017 07:22 PM (nlbfN)

293 Second look at glass parking lot Mideast policy?

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 07, 2017 07:30 PM (66CWr)

294
1) There's a whole bunch of law that says that district courts
shouldn't issue orders that apply outside their jurisdiction with
limited exceptions. The anti-EO courts ignored this. Just see the DOJ
briefs. If this isn't slapped down, then you can have district courts
throwing wrenches into government operations nationwide. SCOTUS knows
that if this becomes common, there will and must be a response to cut
back the courts. Kagan is the old bull that would rather fuck us all
and slowly, rather than create a stampede.

In the Dreamer EO litigation, the Texas Court only ruled for its
district, the Fifth Circuit for the Fifth Circuit, and then after SCOTUS
had it and kicked it back, the Fifth Circuit only then made it
nationwide.

--
I still highly doubt that SCOTUS' holding is that DJs cannot issue a nationwide injunction. They'll find on other grounds, and make the point moot.

2) Fits my point. If you have a green card you have immigration
standing. That was a flaw in the first EO that the left exploited by
getting courts to conflate the plaintiffs and also give standing to
foreigners abroad who had no green card or visa

Having a green card isn't required to have standing in federal courts. Like I said, alien plaintiffs (with or without green cards) can sue using the courts, and may have standing to do so.

Posted by: Revenant at April 07, 2017 07:41 PM (yXLbm)

295 #278 - can I just say, for fucks sake, can we have a mandatory retirement age for public officials? Especially judges? having people in their mid to late 80s as supreme court justices is crazy - make it to 80 and you MUST retire. Same with senators, congress critters, and the like.

I really hate this bloated idea that these are indispensable men - they are not, and their store of wisdom is often not typically above average.

Posted by: George Orwell's Ghost at April 07, 2017 08:03 PM (UgF8H)

296 Another reason to stand firm and bomb the crap out of those using nerve agents:

If you properly disperse this stuff in Manhattan during rush hour, you're looking at about 500,000 prompt deaths, another 500,000 or so delayed deaths...

And the subway system will be utterly unusable until it's decontaminated, and even then there will be hot spots of nerve agent that people find the hard way (by getting exposed).

It will get taken into the subways through the ventilation intakes, and it will degrade a hell of a lot more slowly than it will outdoors.

Posted by: Darth Cobalt Shiva, Sith Lord at April 07, 2017 08:12 PM (iLR0P)

297
Hasn't almost all the industrialized nations banned all poison gases like Sarin?

Why no make possession of Sarin a war crime?

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 07, 2017 05:04 PM (mpXpK)

Cause:

a) the people who would make it a war crime (the UN presumably) love them some Muslims no matter what they do and
b) sarin can be and has been made by non-state actors who can launch an attack from within a nation without that nation being involved. How would you make sure the people involved are a government that is even capable of waging war?

Posted by: redbanzai at April 07, 2017 08:50 PM (FTXAT)

298 "How would you make sure the people involved are a government that is even capable of waging war?"

Quantity of agent used.

Posted by: Darth Cobalt Shiva, Sith Lord at April 07, 2017 09:27 PM (iLR0P)

299 As a Christian who recognizes that Romans 13 describes the legitimate
function of government to bear a sword of justice against evildoers, I
implore the US and regional allies to turn whoever is doing this,
wherever they are, to ash and rubble
---
Okay, if you want to play that game, I will happily support Trump using the US military to smite all the evil around the world.

After he has eliminated all abortion supporters in the US.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn, and also, done with Trump at April 07, 2017 10:07 PM (3Liv/)

300 An old article from the New Yorker describing a gas attack. So utterly horrible.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2002/03/25/the-great-terror

Posted by: Liatris at April 07, 2017 11:44 PM (pPRTz)

301 Thank you, Mark and Oregon Muse!

Posted by: m at April 08, 2017 02:27 AM (Gqgs8)

302 UN has too many dictator thug nations that admire what Assad is doing. Far too many persons do not treat their neighbors as they expect to be treated. Snuffing out human life is the lowest. no matter what their age, pre or post birth.

Posted by: arbitrary turn back at April 08, 2017 01:03 PM (8RQER)

303 I successfully got out of bed on time for work 4 out of 5 days this week. A personal best.

Posted by: fretless at April 08, 2017 03:02 PM (TtMyK)

304 This dumbass blogger bought the "Assad gassed his own people" bullshit. Painful to read.

Posted by: WJ at April 09, 2017 10:32 PM (E0DcJ)

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