Mark Meadows: The Freedom Caucus Could Support the AHCA If It Included the Provisions Proposed by Pence

Ed Morrissey reports:

"Just to be frank, we’ll make news here this morning," Meadows told Jake Sherman. "If those offers that were made over the last couple of days appear in the legislation, the majority -- if not almost all of the Freedom Caucus -- will vote for this bill." The biggest issue for the HFC, Meadows insists, is that the final version of the AHCA has to bring down premiums immediately rather than wait for three or more years for the market to catch up. "The primary objective has been, will be, always will be lower insurance premiums,” Meadows explained. "If we don't do that, we will have failed."
The HFC wants a waiver for states on essential health benefits -- which had already been offered prior to pulling the bill when moderates balked -- and on guaranteed issue and community rating, with the exception of gender for the latter. Meadows is right about these problems; the combination of mandates on insurers and individuals partnered with community rating restrictions has so greatly distorted proper risk assessment that prices skyrocketed for everyone. If states want to impose those, let them -- and let them deal with the backlash from their own electorates.

Meadows' idea that we must bring down premiums immediately seems politically sensible. I'm convinced the Democrats required alleged "comprehensive" health care coverage (even though it was actually catastrophic coverage in expensive disguise) because they wanted to show their client-voters some deliverables right up front -- catastrophic insurance only pays in cases of catastrophe (big medical bills from a major condition) and does not pay for routine check-ups and visits. It's paying for routine stuff that everyone uses all the time that bloats the coast, but the Democrats wanted to give an immediate deliverable to their poorest client-voters by subsidizing the sort of thing for them.

Well, likewise, it makes sense to give people looking for reductions in health care premiums an immediate deliverable.

There are a few problems: "moderate" GOP members may be the new defectors if a Freedom Caucus-approved plan is put forward. "The left wing among House Republicans doesn't want to compromise or keep their pledge to voters to repeal Obamacare," the president of Club for Growth charged.

And the issue of waivers will be tricky (see Ed's post). Still, Yuval Levin thinks this latest round of negotiations has brought the factions closer to a deal.

Posted by: Ace at 03:50 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 YES! This is what should have happened. Get a Freedom Caucus approved deal hammered out, Trump signs it, and we bask in the glory.

That won't undo the Health Care Mess and build something better in itself.

But it is a good STEP ONE.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at April 06, 2017 03:43 PM (ujg0T)

2 And I am first!

Posted by: Curmudgeon at April 06, 2017 03:43 PM (ujg0T)

3 What is it with the not crossing state lines to get insurance?

Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 03:44 PM (Ot7+c)

4 Stop complaining people, this is how the sausage is made!

Wait, sorry. Nobody's complaining. Carry on.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at April 06, 2017 03:45 PM (KUaJL)

5 I'll take seconds, saves me from having to go back to announce Nood.

Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 03:45 PM (Ot7+c)

6 4: Give it a few seconds...

Posted by: Jackal at April 06, 2017 03:46 PM (ru8/k)

7 You don't say.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 06, 2017 03:47 PM (/tuJf)

8 Won't anything that gets out of the House with no D support, die in the Senate.

Are 51 yeas required because it's reconciliation? 60?

Even if 51 won't a few Rs flake? Will any Ds cross the aisle?

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 06, 2017 03:47 PM (SIY7D)

9 I hate all these nicklefuckers. NSTAAFL.

Posted by: Infidel at April 06, 2017 03:47 PM (uKRys)

10
But that will only piss off the other fake Republican caucus, the Tuesday Group, in this failure theater farce.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX v1.1.01 at April 06, 2017 03:47 PM (4fzLM)

11 Corgis called....

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at April 06, 2017 03:48 PM (jjaLl)

12 Axing guaranteed issue is going to be a deal-breaker.

I doubt that bill would even be considered in the Senate. And Trump has promised that is one thing that will be in the bill.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 03:48 PM (so+oy)

13
Repealing obamacare is OVER.

Gallup came out with yet another fake poll showing obamacare is very popular now.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX v1.1.01 at April 06, 2017 03:48 PM (4fzLM)

14 There are a few problems: "moderate" GOP members may be the new defectors if a Freedom Caucus-approved plan is put forward.

I will laugh out loud.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at April 06, 2017 03:48 PM (QQ+il)

15
Buncha hockey pucks!

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX v1.1.01 at April 06, 2017 03:48 PM (4fzLM)

16 Little Paulie Ryan will fuck this up.

Posted by: Max Power at April 06, 2017 03:49 PM (q177U)

17 I hate missing the Art thread every day

Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 03:49 PM (Ot7+c)

18 >>Won't anything that gets out of the House with no D support, die in the Senate.

>>Are 51 yeas required because it's reconciliation? 60?

>>Even if 51 won't a few Rs flake? Will any Ds cross the aisle?

Nope. It's the same reconciliation bill with a few more amendments and it will follow the same process.

Republicans pass a bill. Senate passes their own version. A conference committee is formed and a single bill is presented to both Houses.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 06, 2017 03:49 PM (/tuJf)

19 If Gun Control and Expanded-Welfare-for-Illegals is still in it, the answer is still FUCK NO.

Posted by: Hikaru at April 06, 2017 03:49 PM (XMDuf)

20 See? We've got big enough problems right here at home.

Posted by: wth at April 06, 2017 03:49 PM (HgMAr)

21 I'M A GONNA GET ALL YOU SUCKAHS!!!

Posted by: Crazy Auntie Maxine at April 06, 2017 03:49 PM (PiLeq)

22
Oh, please make this happen. It's rainy and dreary in Jackson's Hymietown and Trump is being deceived by the Intel community to invade Syria.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 06, 2017 03:49 PM (mbhDw)

23 19
If Gun Control and Expanded-Welfare-for-Illegals is still in it, the answer is still FUCK NO.

Posted by: Hikaru at April 06, 2017 03:49 PM (XMDuf)

DITTO

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 06, 2017 03:50 PM (jxbfJ)

24 No deal. A massive recession is required in health care to bring costs and prices in line with reality.

If expenditures for health care have doubled since O'Care was enacted, then they have to halve before any negotiations can resume.

Let it burn.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at April 06, 2017 03:50 PM (HTdUD)

25 19 If Gun Control and Expanded-Welfare-for-Illegals is still in it, the answer is still FUCK NO.
Posted by: Hikaru at April 06, 2017 03:49 PM (XMDuf)

I imagine that would've been excised.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 06, 2017 03:50 PM (mbhDw)

26 But does it get rid of the mandate?

Posted by: PAgirlinNC at April 06, 2017 03:50 PM (/5WQL)

27 4 Stop complaining people, this is how the sausage is made!

Wait, sorry. Nobody's complaining. Carry on.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously
====

I love this place.

Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER! at April 06, 2017 03:50 PM (fLMbU)

28 Republicans in the House pass a bill.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 06, 2017 03:51 PM (/tuJf)

29 RIP Rickles, you ugly old bastard.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at April 06, 2017 03:51 PM (oVJmc)

30 I've resigned myself to the opinion that whatever they can get passed will be a shit sandwich for me, and a steak dinner for Congress.I want them to enjoy the great thing that they passed too.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 06, 2017 03:51 PM (6Ll1u)

31
And you know what time it is at chez Sefton . . .

(meow)

BBS.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 06, 2017 03:51 PM (mbhDw)

32 I don't want a "deal". Republicans do not make deals, they make blunders.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 06, 2017 03:51 PM (mpXpK)

33 What is it with the not crossing state lines to get insurance?
..............
I have always considered this to be a red herring..

Insurance coverage is local.. you set up networks geographically.. usually by county or groups of counties - not even by state.

How is Geico or Progressive going to set up networks in every county in the country?

Secondly - The states currently have the rights to licensing providers. If they want to consider grabbing that power away from the states, it will be a much larger fight.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 03:52 PM (so+oy)

34 Ivanka Trump thinks this is a terrible deal.

Posted by: Susan Rice at April 06, 2017 03:52 PM (TJCSB)

35 Loved Don Rickels inquite a few movies, especially in Kelly's Heros

Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 03:53 PM (Ot7+c)

36
Its as if nobody had insurance before obamacare. I guess.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 06, 2017 03:53 PM (ODxAs)

37 Alright, compromise on "guaranteed issue".

Since these morons want everyone covered, no matter what, if you cannot get an insurance company to cover you (not, "I don't want to pay that much"), then you are eligible for Medicaid. (At some set premium amount. It won't be free unless you are eligible otherwise.)

That way, people are still getting the terrible government provided insurance, but a much smaller number has to suffer under "single payer."

Posted by: makatta at April 06, 2017 03:53 PM (Y7Qzg)

38 >>>>Meadows' idea that we must bring down premiums immediately seems politically sensible.
.
.
.
.Sorry, but that is never going to happen unless the Fed pumps $$$$ to the Insurance Companies. They got burned supporting obamacare (and yes it was their fault because they believed they would continue to get sweet Federal $$$ in subsidies) and they are not going to immediately go lowering premiums for this law.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at April 06, 2017 03:53 PM (le7jz)

39 These moderate cockgobblers want the Insurance Co. to receive their lucre. This will go nowhere and Trump will wind up with more egg on his face.

Posted by: Under Fire at April 06, 2017 03:53 PM (nN3W/)

40 My friendsh , the best healthcare is achieved through strength.

Nuke Shyria.

Posted by: Juan McCain at April 06, 2017 03:53 PM (fLMbU)

41 but the Democrats wanted to give an immediate deliverable to their poorest client-voters by subsidizing the sort of thing for them.

I thought that was what Medicaid was for?????

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 06, 2017 03:53 PM (mpXpK)

42 Since these morons want everyone covered, no matter what, if you cannot get an insurance company to cover you (not, "I don't want to pay that much"), then you are eligible for Medicaid. (At some set premium amount. It won't be free unless you are eligible otherwise.)
Posted by: makatta
......................
That's not how it works now, and that isn't even considered in this bill.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 03:55 PM (so+oy)

43 Republicans do not make deals, they make blunders.

I want this embroidered on a pillow.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at April 06, 2017 03:55 PM (QQ+il)

44 moderate republicans are not going anywhere. moderate republican is another word for pussy. they are going to suck it up and do what they are told, just like they always do.

what principle are moderate republicans standing for anyway? if you are not for gutting obamacare on practical and principle grounds what conservative principle are you for?

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 03:55 PM (cPsPa)

45 "Gallup came out with yet another fake poll showing obamacare is very popular now."

Yeah, saw that and think you're right- Senators Lemming, Spineless, Sidler, Quisling, Gutless, etc. are going to turn tail and run from their "bold" stances of ookiecare repeal.

Apparently Gallup didn't poll any of the insurers- they appear to not be fans of the ACA as evidenced by their continued abandonment of the travesty.

Posted by: Twin Cities Daydrunk, still a Tigers fan at April 06, 2017 03:55 PM (1aMQH)

46 Loved Don Rickels inquite a few movies, especially in Kelly's Heros

Waiting for the Left to vilify him as a raaaaaaaacis'.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at April 06, 2017 03:55 PM (oVJmc)

47 13 Gallup came out with yet another fake poll showing obamacare is very popular now.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX v1.1.01 at April 06, 2017 03:48 PM (4fzLM)

I don't know how anybody can believe any poll after that last election.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 06, 2017 03:55 PM (mpXpK)

48 What's Pauline Ryan"s take on this Syrian shitstorm?

Posted by: Under Fire at April 06, 2017 03:56 PM (nN3W/)

49 Repeal the EMTALA and build a bunch of Free Clinics.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at April 06, 2017 03:56 PM (QQ+il)

50 As long as you have a no pre-existing rule there is no way on on G-D's green earth that premiums are coming down without huge gov subsidies.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 06, 2017 03:56 PM (KlI/a)

51 HFC?? Who came up with that acronym? Haven't they heard of low-carbing? Might as well call yourselves the Fatasses.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at April 06, 2017 03:56 PM (8UACB)

52 What the Purity Caucus doesn't get: we need prices to go DOWN (or stabilize). We have to address this somehow. If not this bill then the next one. Your particular pet cause may not be worthy of being the Line in the Sand.

Posted by: Max Power at April 06, 2017 03:56 PM (q177U)

53 Frankly, a better solution would be much simpler.

You repeal everything outright (except as modified and noted below), but you phase it out, with different parts at different rates, over a long period of time. Yes, it'll be around, but it's end will be baked in the cake, so as to speak.

You grandfather in people who are on it (so if you like your plan, you really will be able to keep it), and allow enrollment for a few year.

Additionally, you overhaul the regulations and cut the red tape to allow businesses, doctors, or anyone else to have the freedom to set up alternatives. If the free market works, then let it.

What this does is instead of presenting people with uncertainty about losing coverage. By giving alternatives a chance to work before the Obamacare phase-out, with the promise that any deficiency will be taken care of by new legislation, people won't be frightened by the fear of the unknown.

Posted by: The Medical Hat at April 06, 2017 03:56 PM (rUIbB)

54 Some sort of deal better be figured out, and I'm sure both sides are going to have to give up something.

Rand Paul had a good way of framing it, he said instead of creating new "ObamaCare Lite" policies that are "Republican", let's just find the parts of Obamacare we can repeal and leave the bad parts behind if that's the only way to move forward with a compromise.

But if one said just keeps insisting the whole thing be repealed or no deal, we will have the status quo which is Obamacare Full Strength

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 03:57 PM (o3uvv)

55
Don Rickles was pivotal in Force Ten From Navaho, also.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX v1.1.01 at April 06, 2017 03:57 PM (4fzLM)

56 40 My friendsh , the best healthcare is achieved through strength.

Nuke Shyria.
Posted by: Juan McCain at April 06, 2017 03:53 PM (fLMbU)

Wow ... threadwinner forty comments in ?

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 06, 2017 03:57 PM (BHaRb)

57

WTF is Force Ten, anyway?

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX v1.1.01 at April 06, 2017 03:57 PM (4fzLM)

58 43
Republicans do not make deals, they make blunders.

I want this embroidered on a pillow.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at April 06, 2017 03:55 PM (QQ+il)

You see the instagram photos of a pillow that was made of printed material. Look at it closely and the print looks like flaccid penises. That's the pillow you'll get from the Republicans.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 06, 2017 03:58 PM (jxbfJ)

59 I've resigned myself to the opinion that whatever they can get passed will be a shit sandwich for me, and a steak dinner for Congress.
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby

Maybe not House members, who seem to actually at times represent the poor and middle class they represent. But Senators have only one goal -- to keep everyone else in this country poorer than they are.

You don't spend millions to become a Senator so that JoeSixPack can attain that same level of wealth. Quite the opposite.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at April 06, 2017 03:58 PM (HTdUD)

60 " if you are not for gutting obamacare on practical and principle grounds what conservative principle are you for? "

High end Georgetown cocktail parties and offshore prosecution free underaged sex trafficking, yo.

Whaddya mean those aren't principles?

Posted by: Senators Lemming, Spineless, Quisling, Gutless et. al at April 06, 2017 03:59 PM (1aMQH)

61 Here is my non-compliant view for the moment:

It's not good for the health of this country that something this monumental is being done with only one side of the aisle participating.

I know that's the realities of it and the Dems shat in this bed and now the rest of us are lying in it, but still. It's not good at all.

I'm going to go find my huge rant about the NYT sob story about billing codes and repaste it here because a. I want to taunt the Barrel and II. I hate having a rant go to waste.

brb

Posted by: alexthechick - most delicatest flowerest of innocent virtuest at April 06, 2017 03:59 PM (mf5HN)

62 I also like the idea of at the very least, shutting out all new enrollees for ObamaCare and then grandfathering in the rest with some sort of transition plan.

At least that stops ObamaCare from growing and having more people with a new entitlement.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 03:59 PM (o3uvv)

63 Repeat after me...

OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW
OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW
OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW
OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW
OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW
OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW

You're getting sleepy...

Posted by: Gallup at April 06, 2017 03:59 PM (HgMAr)

64 what we should do is cancel everything immediately and then have some sort of Trump run swat team running for a year to mitigate the pain while the new policies come into effect.

it would be expensive but less expensive than continuing this mess.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:00 PM (cPsPa)

65 Puzzles the hell out of me why any Republican would be all in for forcing consumers to purchase any particular coverages... much less the over the top ones written by Sebelius.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:01 PM (FTXAT)

66 46 Loved Don Rickels inquite a few movies, especially in Kelly's Heros

Waiting for the Left to vilify him as a raaaaaaaacis'.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at April 06, 2017 03:55 PM (oVJmc)

As I said in the last thread, can you imagine today's snowflakes listening to his routine? So much triggering...

Posted by: rickl at April 06, 2017 04:01 PM (xjiRE)

67 As long as you have a no pre-existing rule there is no way on on G-D's green earth that premiums are coming down without huge gov subsidies.
Posted by: Nevergiveup
..............
That's what this new "high risk pool" is supposed to be fore.. but Geebus.. it's a lousy $15 Billion a year.. that's a drop in the bucket.. maybe your premiums will come down a dollar or two.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 04:01 PM (so+oy)

68
Fox Business - Paul Ryno - We are closer on healthcare than tax reform

Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 06, 2017 04:02 PM (493sH)

69
So let's recap:

In November, the country voted for repeal of obamacare and no more stupid wars.

Here we are 5 months later and we're getting into another stupid war and no repeal of obamacare.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX v1.1.01 at April 06, 2017 04:02 PM (4fzLM)

70 I'M A GONNA GET ALL YOU SUCKAHS!!!
Posted by: Crazy Auntie Maxine
------------

Hey...nice wig you got there Max. Can you put me to some knowledge about where you got that?

Posted by: Eleanor Holmes-Norton at April 06, 2017 04:02 PM (NBHj5)

71 Repeat after me...

OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW
OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW
OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW
OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW
OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW
OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW

You're getting sleepy...
Posted by: Gallup

_______

Its the same when they would present Amnesty to the American public.

One side (the Democrats) would be completely united.

The other side (Republicans) would be fractured and be exchanging insults.

Guess which position "seemed" more popular and polled better?

So Republicans saw that and would start mouthing the familiar "comprehensive" solution even though the American public was actually not on board with open door immigration policies.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:02 PM (o3uvv)

72 What is it with the not crossing state lines to get insurance?

Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 03:44 PM (Ot7+c)

That will take repeal of the McCarran-Ferguson Act of 1945. I think a repeal bill on that may have already passed one house (the Senate?) and would need to be passed by the other.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:03 PM (FTXAT)

73 Not that this doesn't sound promising, but why in the hell wasn't this in the package two weeks ago?

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 06, 2017 04:03 PM (B+qrE)

74 Dennis Prager points out imagine having no pre-existing conditions on car insurance

Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 04:03 PM (Ot7+c)

75 What the Purity Caucus doesn't get: we need prices to go DOWN (or stabilize). We have to address this somehow. If not this bill then the next one. Your particular pet cause may not be worthy of being the Line in the Sand.
Posted by: Max Power at April 06, 2017 03:56 PM (q177U)

Yup... they are trying to fix health care COSTS, by fixing Health INSURANCE...

Uhhhh.... all this bluster is about who is going to PAY for it.... not about the cost in the first place.

Posted by: Don Q. at April 06, 2017 04:03 PM (NgKpN)

76 As long as you have a no pre-existing rule there is no way on on G-D's green earth that premiums are coming down without huge gov subsidies.
Posted by: Nevergiveup
..............
That's what this new "high risk pool" is supposed to be fore.. but Geebus.. it's a lousy $15 Billion a year.. that's a drop in the bucket.. maybe your premiums will come down a dollar or two.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 04:01 PM (so+oy)

There's gonna be a high risk pool? linkie?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 06, 2017 04:04 PM (KlI/a)

77 "Well, likewise, it makes sense to give people looking for reductions in health care premiums an immediate deliverable."

I am put in mind of a long-forgotten jape by Mike Kinsley about having Congress attempt to bring down the cost of airline tickets by repealing the law of gravity.

Econ 101 time. Health insurance costs won't be plausibly cut, other than artificially shuffling bills between different payers, until the cost of health care itself is definitively reduced.

The cost of health care itself won't be reduced across the board until the market-distorting cartelization and supply limits produced by government meddling are removed in their majority. Apply a high-powered hedge trimmer to the tangled bank.

There's absolutely no sign of any of these substantive steps being taken in these new bills, just as Obamacare itself (in an admission against interest by Obama ally Warren Buffett) did "nothing" to get actual medical costs lower.

It's meaningless Kabuki theatre yet again. Or, as earlier threads at the HQ posited, it's "bukkake theatre".

Posted by: torquewrench at April 06, 2017 04:04 PM (noWW6)

78 Round up all the people with pre-existing conditions and bake them in an oven and feed them to poor people. Solves two problems at once.

- Peter "Pete" Singer

Posted by: MAGA at April 06, 2017 04:04 PM (A4HOq)

79 More smoke, mirrors and bags of flaming dog shit placed on our doorsteps. Why the hell are we talking about GOVERNMENT setting premiums? Why aren't we just talking about REPEAL and allowing the market to - once again - control premium costs? Once repeal is in the works, then we talk about playing with fixtures that impact premiums like removing state-line purchasing restrictions, etc. Talking Ryan from the wheel and sliding Pence in was supposed to be a palate cleanser - same GOPe working behind the scene to give us obamacare lite.

Posted by: MSTisdale at April 06, 2017 04:04 PM (g9d8D)

80 Repeat after me...

OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW

OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW

OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW

OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW

OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW

OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW

You're getting sleepy...

Posted by: Gallup

Revealed preferences says that is not true... as I have been repeating ad nausium even here, if people wanted any of Obamacare (even the Medicaid expansion), the Democrats would be in power.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:05 PM (FTXAT)

81 It's meaningless Kabuki theatre yet again. Or, as earlier threads at the HQ posited, it's "bukkake theatre".
Posted by: torquewrench

well, now it is more gokkun.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:05 PM (cPsPa)

82 What will really happen is that the name will be changed from Ocare to Brocare. 'Cause then it will sound cool.

Posted by: Soona at April 06, 2017 04:05 PM (Fmupd)

83 >>Not that this doesn't sound promising, but why in the hell wasn't this in the package two weeks ago?

The Dems were working on a national healthcare plan since the 1930's. Still took them 13 months after winning to get Obamacare to it's final form and passed and it still took bribing certain Senators who then lost their seats not to mention the majority.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 06, 2017 04:06 PM (/tuJf)

84

If only we knew the details.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 06, 2017 04:06 PM (0mz2+)

85 Can someone do me a favor and see if you can get LegalInsurrection up? I'm not getting nothing, everything else is cominb up I look for.

Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 04:06 PM (Ot7+c)

86 Here we are 5 months later and we're getting into another stupid war and no repeal of obamacare.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX v1.1.01 at April 06, 2017 04:02 PM (4fzLM)
..........

Haven't you heard? ObamaCare is popular now. So is war.

Posted by: Gallup at April 06, 2017 04:06 PM (HgMAr)

87 71 Repeat after me...

OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW
OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW
OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW
OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW
OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW
OBAMACARE IS POPULAR NOW

You're getting sleepy...
Posted by: Gallup

We should bring over some of that Flash and Bang Radar that we've got in the Middle East. Do some Obamacare polling with it.

That radar can do anything.

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 06, 2017 04:06 PM (BHaRb)

88 72 What is it with the not crossing state lines to get insurance?

Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 03:44 PM (Ot7+c)

That will take repeal of the McCarran-Ferguson Act of 1945. I think a repeal bill on that may have already passed one house (the Senate?) and would need to be passed by the other.
Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:03 PM (FTXAT)

Uh.... Untied Health Care already sells in every State... some of it under the Champus program...

What is really happening is that the big players are doing to health insurance, what the Bailout did to the banking industry...

Its all about consolidating into a very few big companies.... which is good for Wall Street, and horrible for Main Street.

Posted by: Don Q. at April 06, 2017 04:06 PM (NgKpN)

89 So the others weren't called?

Posted by: Ladylibertarian at April 06, 2017 04:06 PM (TdMsT)

90 >>>>I also like the idea of at the very least, shutting out all new
enrollees for ObamaCare and then grandfathering in the rest with some
sort of transition plan.

At least that stops ObamaCare from growing and having more people with a new entitlement.
.
.
.Uh obamacare is dying almost everywhere. The only thing that actually grew during this whole mess was the Medicaid expansion.

Right now there are some State who will not have a single Health Insurance provider for o care in 2018.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at April 06, 2017 04:06 PM (le7jz)

91 More smoke, mirrors and bags of flaming dog shit
placed on our doorsteps. Why the hell are we talking about GOVERNMENT
setting premiums? Why aren't we just talking about REPEAL and allowing
the market to - once again - control premium costs? Once repeal is in
the works, then we talk about playing with fixtures that impact premiums
like removing state-line purchasing restrictions, etc. Talking Ryan
from the wheel and sliding Pence in was supposed to be a palate cleanser
- same GOPe working behind the scene to give us obamacare lite.

Posted by: MSTisdale at April 06, 2017 04:04 PM (g9d8D)

We should be but Ryan and the moderates hijacked the process and nobody but the FC is even trying to hold them responsible for their promises. Trump screwed the pooch on this one.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:07 PM (FTXAT)

92 There's gonna be a high risk pool? linkie?
Posted by: Nevergiveup
...........................
http://tinyurl.com/ksubsk6

The HFC wants a waiver for states on essential health benefits — which had already been offered prior to pulling the bill when moderates balked — and on guaranteed issue and community rating, with the exception of gender for the latter. Meadows is right about these problems; the combination of mandates on insurers and individuals partnered with community rating restrictions has so greatly distorted proper risk assessment that prices skyrocketed foreveryone. If states want to impose those, let them — and let them deal with the backlash from their own electorates. Meadows wants that connected to federal supports for high-risk pools that will allow people with pre-existing conditions a way to gradually find normal health-insurance coverage, “to make sure that premiums don’t go skyrocketing for those who are sick.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 04:07 PM (so+oy)

93 Can someone do me a favor and see if you can get LegalInsurrection up? I'm not getting nothing, everything else is cominb up I look for.
Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 04:06 PM (Ot7+c)

nope

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 06, 2017 04:07 PM (0mz2+)

94 Dennis Prager points out imagine having no pre-existing conditions on car insurance
Posted by: Skip

_____

I agree it's crazy, but the ship has sailed on that concept politically.

Someone not being able to buy health insurance as a result of their medical condition that's not their "fault" is just not going to sell.

Some sort of high risk pool is going to have to be figured out.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:07 PM (o3uvv)

95 No talk of wee-wees nor hoohahs.

Posted by: VP Pence at April 06, 2017 04:08 PM (oR5ks)

96 12 Axing guaranteed issue is going to be a deal-breaker.

I doubt that bill would even be considered in the Senate. And Trump has promised that is one thing that will be in the bill.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 03:48 PM (so+oy)

Fine. Let's keep guaranteed issue for...2, maybe 3 years...and let it sunset. Gives an incentive to get on the rolls - and stay there - before it goes away.

Posted by: Hugh Jorgen at April 06, 2017 04:08 PM (17QyB)

97 81
It's meaningless Kabuki theatre yet again. Or, as earlier threads at the HQ posited, it's "bukkake theatre".

Posted by: torquewrench

well, now it is more gokkun.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:05 PM (cPsPa)

I gotta stop googling terms I'm not familiar with. Damn!!

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 06, 2017 04:08 PM (jxbfJ)

98 It's almost as if the Republicans allowed the Democrats to make a one sided issue out of insurance, rather than aggressively addressing the cost of health care.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 06, 2017 04:08 PM (ZO497)

99 Not that this doesn't sound promising, but why in the hell wasn't this in the package two weeks ago?

The Dems were working on a national healthcare plan since the
1930's. Still took them 13 months after winning to get Obamacare to it's
final form and passed and it still took bribing certain Senators who
then lost their seats not to mention the majority.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 06, 2017 04:06 PM (/tuJf)

That is a stupid excuse. Complete repeal is what they promised and that doesn't need any more though or angst than the Brooks bill.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:08 PM (FTXAT)

100 Repeal the damn Obamacare

Posted by: Lord Sir x at April 06, 2017 04:09 PM (nFwvY)

101 >>>moderate republican is another word for pussy.

That's 7 syllables!!! Pussy is only 2!
Plus we already have cooze, mish, beaver, poontang, poonani, clam, vag, vajayjay, box, cunt, slit, gash, hotbox, muff, twat, beefdrapes, fuckhole, furburger, cooter, cunny, pissflaps, meat wallet, quim, snatch, taco, tuna purse, ....

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at April 06, 2017 04:09 PM (8UACB)

102 93 Can someone do me a favor and see if you can get LegalInsurrection up? I'm not getting nothing, everything else is cominb up I look for.
Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 04:06 PM (Ot7+c)

nope
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 06, 2017 04:07 PM (0mz2+)

Went down a little bit ago and hasn't returned.

Weather maybe?

Posted by: Hugh Jorgen at April 06, 2017 04:09 PM (17QyB)

103 Puzzles the hell out of me why any Republican would
be all in for forcing consumers to purchase any particular coverages...
much less the over the top ones written by Sebelius. Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:01 PM (FTXAT)
=====

If they don't have the coercion baked into the cake, insufficient opportunity for graft. So has everyone decided to buy the half-baked cake?

Posted by: mustbequantum at April 06, 2017 04:09 PM (MIKMs)

104 Uh obamacare is dying almost everywhere. The only thing that actually grew during this whole mess was the Medicaid expansion.

Right now there are some State who will not have a single Health Insurance provider for o care in 2018.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman
______

The ObamaCare medicaid qualifications were significantly broadened to include a lot of new people.

Also, people move in and out of it, just shut down all new enrollees of both the MEdiCaid expansion and the Obamacare subsidized plans.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:09 PM (o3uvv)

105
Strange how the Republicans can't find one family out there deciding to either pay their mortgage or pay for health care for the month.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX v1.1.01 at April 06, 2017 04:10 PM (4fzLM)

106 Uh.... Untied Health Care already sells in every State... some of it under the Champus program...
Posted by: Don Q.
...............
Those are different plans for each state - separately regulated and licensed. You cannot enroll in a Michigan plan except in Michigan, for instance.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 04:10 PM (so+oy)

107 "So let's recap: In November, the country voted for repeal of obamacare and no more stupid wars. Here we are 5 months later and we're getting into another stupid war and no repeal of obamacare."

I think I'm going to have to write President Jared Kushner a strongly worded letter to that effect.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 06, 2017 04:10 PM (noWW6)

108 Why can't they just put up 10 different versions of the bill up for vote, simultaneously, and have the one with most votes be the new law?

Posted by: Serious Cat at April 06, 2017 04:10 PM (k/Jql)

109 If Gun Control and Expanded-Welfare-for-Illegals is still in it, the answer is still FUCK NO.

Posted by: Hikaru at April 06, 2017 03:49 PM (XMDuf)

DITTO

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 06, 2017 03:50 PM (jxbfJ)

Not to mention insane food labeling rules that virtually guarantee that no small business is able to start.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:10 PM (FTXAT)

110 No pre-existing boners if your wife isn't there.

Posted by: VP Pence at April 06, 2017 04:10 PM (QM5S2)

111 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 04:07 PM (so+oy)

Yeah that i saw. But that's a long way from what is needed. But yeah it's a start.

Sigh...what a mess

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 06, 2017 04:10 PM (KlI/a)

112 Wondering if there is a attack on LegalInsurrection

Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 04:11 PM (Ot7+c)

113 >>That is a stupid excuse. Complete repeal is what they promised and that doesn't need any more though or angst than the Brooks bill.

What's more stupid is your continued insistence that they must have a complete repeal bill or your going to start tarring and feathering people when it has been pointed out endlessly that this is a reconciliation bill and it can't be done.

Even the Freedom Caucus seems to have finally understood this and is now negotiating to get a deal.

We just saw this morning the importance of process and you can continue to ignore it but it is not going to change reality nor is it going to allow a straight repeal bill to pass.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 06, 2017 04:11 PM (/tuJf)

114 Trump screwed the pooch on this one.

=====

Oh FFS.

Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER! at April 06, 2017 04:11 PM (fLMbU)

115 A high risk pool. Is that like when you go off the high dive before realizing they drained the water?

Posted by: wth at April 06, 2017 04:12 PM (HgMAr)

116 Uh.... Untied Health Care already sells in every State... some of it under the Champus program...
Posted by: Don Q.
...............
Those are different plans for each state - separately regulated and licensed. You cannot enroll in a Michigan plan except in Michigan, for instance.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 04:10 PM (so+oy)

which means you can't have a Nationwide plan for all "Occupational Therapists" who belong to their organization for example which is what you need to negotiate with the big health insurance companies

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 06, 2017 04:12 PM (KlI/a)

117 106 Uh.... Untied Health Care already sells in every State... some of it under the Champus program...
Posted by: Don Q.
...............
Those are different plans for each state - separately regulated and licensed. You cannot enroll in a Michigan plan except in Michigan, for instance.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 04:10 PM (so+oy)

I understand that... but those who think that economy of scale will somehow bring down prices because they can buy across State Lines?

They already have economy of scale... which was my point.

Posted by: Don Q. at April 06, 2017 04:12 PM (NgKpN)

118 112 Wondering if there is a attack on LegalInsurrection
Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 04:11 PM (Ot7+c)

I lost power here a couple of hours ago, it just came back. I wonder where their server is?

Posted by: Hugh Jorgen at April 06, 2017 04:12 PM (17QyB)

119
Why can't they just put up 10 different versions of the bill up for vote, simultaneously, and have the one with most votes be the new law?
Posted by: Serious Cat at April 06, 2017 04:10 PM (k/Jql)

Russian hacking that's why!!

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at April 06, 2017 04:13 PM (lKyWE)

120 A high risk pool. Is that why the lifeguards are always yelling at you not to run?

Posted by: wth at April 06, 2017 04:13 PM (HgMAr)

121 Single payer on expenses over 100,000 but only on treatments with at least a 50% success rate. Private gap insurance coverage between 2,000 and 100,000 and guaranteed coverage for certain qualifying conditions. HSA below 2000. Private supplemental coverage available to purchase for riskier treatments.

Posted by: MAGA at April 06, 2017 04:14 PM (A4HOq)

122 Paying for pre-existing conditions IS NOT INSURANCE regardless of the industry. Let's get REAL ridiculous and demand life insurance for those recently deceased. I'd like $5 million on my dead father please. More than happy to pay that first month $10,000 premium and $10,000 co-pay up front. Just tell me where to sign. Jesus H Christ on a popsicle stick - didn't we just win a fucking election?

Posted by: MSTisdale at April 06, 2017 04:14 PM (g9d8D)

123 I understand that... but those who think that economy of scale will somehow bring down prices because they can buy across State Lines?

They already have economy of scale... which was my point.
Posted by: Don Q

isn't each state more or less a stand alone operation?

part of the idea of selling across state lines is to allow people in high regulation states access to policies in low regulation states.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:14 PM (cPsPa)

124 A high risk pool is one with more than 75% pee.

Posted by: Pug Mahon at April 06, 2017 04:14 PM (RwwCT)

125 What's more stupid is your continued insistence ...

You had me at "Hello".

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 06, 2017 04:14 PM (BHaRb)

126 Strange how the Republicans can't find one family
out there deciding to either pay their mortgage or pay for health care
for the month.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX v1.1.01 at April 06, 2017 04:10 PM (4fzLM)

*raises hand*

Posted by: Infidel at April 06, 2017 04:14 PM (uKRys)

127 Yeah that i saw. But that's a long way from what is needed. But yeah it's a start.

Sigh...what a mess
Posted by: Nevergiveup
............
I was roundly booed here when I suggested a small (1%) payroll tax that would go into a pool for ALL Americans as a way to reduce premiums. The only way to reduce premiums is to reduce the risk to insurers.
A pool to dip into to pay for catastrophic illnesses (kicking in at say $15k or $20k) would reduce everyone's premiums.. healthy young people's premiums would be dirt cheap.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 04:15 PM (so+oy)

128 Only 3 Democrats voted for Gorsuch. I want Republicans to remember that on the next Democrat nomination.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 06, 2017 04:15 PM (mpXpK)

129 The Birth Control Pills Is Too Damn High

Posted by: Lord Sir x at April 06, 2017 04:15 PM (nFwvY)

130
Dennis Prager points out imagine having no pre-existing conditions on car insurance
Posted by: Skip

It's easy if you try.

Posted by: John Lennon at April 06, 2017 04:15 PM (IqV8l)

131 Repealing Federal intrusion on the health care system would reduce costs and improve coverage.

Period.

If you want to have Federal "universal health care' then cut everyone a check for $5,000 (or whatever) and say "go get health care."

You'd be AMAZED how much health care costs drop when people have to pay their own way--even with a bargain-with-the-devil Federal subsidy check.

But that subsidy MUST go to individuals, not health care or insurance companies. Otherwise poof! go any cost savings.

Things Any Sane Person Should Know BEFORE Econ 101.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2017 04:15 PM (s5o+q)

132 I've got it. It's when they don't put enough chlorine in the water.

Posted by: wth at April 06, 2017 04:15 PM (HgMAr)

133 That is a stupid excuse. Complete repeal is what
they promised and that doesn't need any more though or angst than the
Brooks bill.

What's more stupid is your continued insistence that they must have a
complete repeal bill or your going to start tarring and feathering
people when it has been pointed out endlessly that this is a
reconciliation bill and it can't be done.

Even the Freedom Caucus seems to have finally understood this and is now negotiating to get a deal.

We just saw this morning the importance of process and you can
continue to ignore it but it is not going to change reality nor is it
going to allow a straight repeal bill to pass.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 06, 2017 04:11 PM (/tuJf)

That is Bullshit and you know it Jack. As proved today in the Senate, the ONLY thing keeping the Republicans from doing any damn thing they want is the REPUBLICANS. They don't need 60 and at least 50 of the 52 there ran with a promise to REPEAL. They need to be held to that.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:16 PM (FTXAT)

134 *Boos Chi-Town Jerry and his 1% tax. Roundly.*

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 06, 2017 04:16 PM (BHaRb)

135 102
93 Can someone do me a favor and see if you can get LegalInsurrection
up? I'm not getting nothing, everything else is cominb up I look for.

Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 04:06 PM (Ot7+c)

nope

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 06, 2017 04:07 PM (0mz2+)

Went down a little bit ago and hasn't returned.

Weather maybe?

Posted by: Hugh Jorgen at April 06, 2017 04:09 PM (17QyB)

Their twitter feed says their hosting provider is having systemwide issues. Site is down.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 06, 2017 04:16 PM (jxbfJ)

136 Most of the spending is for chronic illnesses. On current trajectory, diabetes alone will break the bank.

Is using the high risk pool a potential means to get control over these costs. Best practices? Volume discounts?

Posted by: Ignoramus at April 06, 2017 04:17 PM (SIY7D)

137 Just tell me where to sign. Jesus H Christ on a popsicle stick - didn't we just win a fucking election?
===

We did. The Establshment did not.

Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER! at April 06, 2017 04:17 PM (fLMbU)

138 What's more stupid is your continued insistence that
they must have a complete repeal bill or your going to start tarring
and feathering people when it has been pointed out endlessly that this
is a reconciliation bill and it can't be done.
Posted by: JackStraw

+ + + + + +

Um, why bother with the qualifier "complete"? Either it's fucking repealed or it's not. I've read and listened to detailed discussion over that last pile of shit and it was no where near "repeal" - and items that hinted at "repealing" mandates were so far out as to make them highly unlikely.

Posted by: MSTisdale at April 06, 2017 04:17 PM (g9d8D)

139 I have no idea where anyone's server is, have read this one is on a south seas island.

Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 04:18 PM (Ot7+c)

140 I understand that... but those who think that economy of scale will somehow bring down prices because they can buy across State Lines?
---------

The thought is that it will promote competition. Some insurance companies do not operate in some states, and consumer's choice is therefore limited.

Now, I have mixed emotions about this. The reason that some companies do not operate in some states is on account of state insurance regulations. On the one hand, I'm in favor of allowing consumers to have a choice among companies, on the other hand, the Federalist in me feels that the states ought to have the power to regulate the industry within their state. If the citizens are unhappy with their state agencies, then they ought to do something about it.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 06, 2017 04:18 PM (ZO497)

141 I was roundly booed here when I suggested a small
(1%) payroll tax that would go into a pool for ALL Americans as a way to
reduce premiums. The only way to reduce premiums is to reduce the risk
to insurers.

A pool to dip into to pay for catastrophic illnesses (kicking in at
say $15k or $20k) would reduce everyone's premiums.. healthy young
people's premiums would be dirt cheap.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 04:15 PM (so+oy)

People are not owed healthcare... if they are not owed that, they certainly are not owed insurance either.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:18 PM (FTXAT)

142
isn't each state more or less a stand alone operation?

part of the idea of selling across state lines is to allow people in high regulation states access to policies in low regulation states.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:14 PM (cPsPa)

I understand the idea... but if you buy a policy with a New York company, and you are in Calif... under which STATE Laws will the policy operate?

Under which Medical Board?

If your New York company does not have a specialist for you in your area? what happens?

Whole thing is a canard IMO...

Posted by: Don Q. at April 06, 2017 04:18 PM (NgKpN)

143 Deem It Repealed

Posted by: Lord Sir x at April 06, 2017 04:18 PM (nFwvY)

144
A high risk pool is one with more than 75% pee.
Posted by: Pug Mahon at April 06, 2017 04:14 PM (RwwCT)

Why should a public pool in Sweden be covered under th AHCA?

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at April 06, 2017 04:19 PM (lKyWE)

145 >>That is Bullshit and you know it Jack. As proved today in the Senate, the ONLY thing keeping the Republicans from doing any damn thing they want is the REPUBLICANS. They don't need 60 and at least 50 of the 52 there ran with a promise to REPEAL. They need to be held to that.

Sorry. It's impossible to have a conversation with someone who refuses to accept reality.

When you can finally figure out why the Freedom Caucus is negotiating on this bill with this process instead of pushing Mo Brooks 1 sentence bill that has no chance of passing, get back to me. Until then, rant all you want.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 06, 2017 04:19 PM (/tuJf)

146 well then there is the whole problem of explaining to everyone how healthcare is not a right.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:19 PM (cPsPa)

147 Repealing Federal intrusion on the health care system would reduce costs and improve coverage.

Period.

If you want to have Federal "universal health care' then cut everyone a check for $5,000 (or whatever) and say "go get health care."

You'd be AMAZED how much health care costs drop when people have to pay their own way--even with a bargain-with-the-devil Federal subsidy check.

But that subsidy MUST go to individuals, not health care or insurance companies. Otherwise poof! go any cost savings.

Things Any Sane Person Should Know BEFORE Econ 101.
Posted by: filbert

______

Something like a voucher would work way better than what we have now, but I can almost guarantee you the same free shit army would then demand more money because they spent that check on something they weren't supposed to, like a new car payment.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:19 PM (o3uvv)

148 Wait wait, I have a new Health Care Proposal:

1. Get sick.
2. Go to doctor.
3. Pay him.

Whaddya think?

Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2017 04:19 PM (DQ4Fv)

149 Just let you roll your HSA instead of madly buying hemorrhoid pads and fungus cream to burn it up every January.

Posted by: Roland THTG at April 06, 2017 04:19 PM (QM5S2)

150 If we put up a bunch of those suicide phone booths like they had in Futurama, it would save us a lot of money and get rid of a lot of democrats.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 06, 2017 04:19 PM (6Ll1u)

151 You know ... there is that simple little eight-page bill that they all passed last year.

Could run that up the flagpole again. See what happens.

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 06, 2017 04:20 PM (BHaRb)

152 GOP's just another word for "yellow-bellied wimp"
But it was good enough for me and Johnny McCain

Posted by: anis oplin at April 06, 2017 04:20 PM (nlbfN)

153 There was a decent article referencing a table-flipping insurance reform on Ricochet. Cant' find it easily but the main points were along the lines of:

1. Universal catastrophic ins. paid from a dismantled Medicade program.
2. Unlimited HSAs, inheritable, and taxed-less.
3. Zero coverage requirements on private ins. policies. - IE no more required natal care for men's policies.
4. Blow up employers ins requirements.

Basically, offer the carrot of universal catastrophic plans in return for open access/offer in HSAs and private policies.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 06, 2017 04:20 PM (GgzGa)

154 I understand the idea... but if you buy a policy with a New York company, and you are in Calif... under which STATE Laws will the policy operate?

Under which Medical Board?

If your New York company does not have a specialist for you in your area? what happens?

Whole thing is a canard IMO...
Posted by: Don Q

well, those are issues that need to be resolved, however, resolving them is worthwhile.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:20 PM (cPsPa)

155 Wait wait, I have a new Health Care Proposal:

1. Get sick.
2. Go to doctor.
3. Pay him.

Whaddya think?
Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2017 04:19 PM (D

I remember the doctor coming to the house and my mother paying him in cash.

Posted by: JoeF. at April 06, 2017 04:20 PM (7uYFy)

156 No pre-existing boners if your wife isn't there.

Posted by: VP Pence at April 06, 2017 04:10 PM (QM5S2)
..............

How long have you had this pre-existing boner?

Posted by: Boner Pill Doctor at April 06, 2017 04:21 PM (HgMAr)

157 ...baby cannon, trim, yoni, stench trench, honeypot, feesh, rosebud, shame cave, cockholster, cocksheath, minge, glovebox, ...

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at April 06, 2017 04:21 PM (8UACB)

158 Single Payer Carousel.

for democrats

Posted by: Lord Sir x at April 06, 2017 04:21 PM (nFwvY)

159 I think few things hurt the GOP's chances in 2018 as much as having all the power they need to fulfill their constantly repeated promises to repeal and instead finding all these excuses and reasons to not do so.

Repeal, now. Period. No excuses, no alternatives. Repeal, without exception.

Then start the process of coming up with real reform.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 04:21 PM (39g3+)

160
Wait wait, I have a new Health Care Proposal:

1. Get sick.

2. Go to doctor.

3. Make the Government Pay him.

Whaddya think?

FIFY

Posted by: Leftist losers everywhere at April 06, 2017 04:21 PM (4WhSY)

161 Since these morons want everyone covered, no matter what, if you cannot get an insurance company to cover you (not, "I don't want to pay that much"), then you are eligible for Medicaid. (At some set premium amount. It won't be free unless you are eligible otherwise.)
Posted by: makatta
......................
That's not how it works now, and that isn't even considered in this bill.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 03:55 PM (so+oy)
****************

I notice you left out the first part of my post. "Alright, compromise on "guaranteed issue"."

That phrase was meant to mean I was suggesting a compromise with the morons that want universal coverage, no matter the underlying conditions.

OF COURSE it's not how it works now NOR is it in the bill. That's why I was suggesting a compromise that might be palatable to all sides. It sucks, but it sucks less than Obamacare for all.

Posted by: makatta at April 06, 2017 04:21 PM (Y7Qzg)

162 Strange how the Republicans can't find one family

out there deciding to either pay their mortgage or pay for health care

for the month.
Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX v1.1.01 at April 06, 2017 04:10 PM (4fzLM)

*raises hand*

Posted by: Infidel

>>>>>>>

*raises both hands*

Posted by: MSTisdale at April 06, 2017 04:22 PM (g9d8D)

163 The GEE OH PEE WANTS OCARE. They like it. They love it. They want to marry it and have its babies.

Trump can't Executive Order us out of our problems. Our legislators are narcissistic jackanapes who have no incentive to listen to their constituencies.

Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER! at April 06, 2017 04:22 PM (fLMbU)

164 Wait wait, I have a new Health Care Proposal:

1. Get sick.
2. Go to doctor.
3. Pay him.

Whaddya think?
--
No.

Never.

We deserve to get EVERYTHING for free sucka!

Posted by: The "Takers" of the USSA at April 06, 2017 04:22 PM (NDivk)

165 The only way to reduce premiums is to reduce the risk to insurers.
-----------

*?!*

Uh, what about reducing the cost of health care, which is what this entire discussion should be about.

The insurance question has been one smelly, giant red herring.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 06, 2017 04:22 PM (ZO497)

166 I remember the doctor coming to the house and my mother paying him in cash.
Posted by: JoeF.

You were lucky -- I remember the doctor coming to the house and my mother paying him in, uh, "favors."

Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2017 04:22 PM (DQ4Fv)

167 Wait wait, I have a new Health Care Proposal:

1. Get sick.
2. Go to doctor.
3. Pay him.

Whaddya think?
Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2017 04:19 PM
..............

Makes sense, so forget it.

Posted by: wth at April 06, 2017 04:23 PM (HgMAr)

168 Something like a voucher would work way better than what we have now, but I can almost guarantee you the same free shit army would then demand more money because they spent that check on something they weren't supposed to, like a new car payment.
Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:19 PM (o3uvv)

I didn't say my idea would be the best of all possible worlds. It wouldn't. (See zombie at April 06, 2017 04:19 PM for the optimal plan IMHO.)

It would be better than the current health care system clusterfuck that government-insurance comapny meddling has inflicted on us.

I suppose I could add that health care insurance should go back to being INSURANCE, not something that "pays for everything."

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2017 04:23 PM (s5o+q)

169 Wait wait, I have a new Health Care Proposal:

1. Get sick.
2. Go to doctor.
3. Pay him.

Whaddya think?
---------------------

Thats BULLSHIT!

Posted by: Angry SJW at April 06, 2017 04:23 PM (ZO497)

170 Why can't it be repealed? Put in the legislation a sunset date. I personally like August of 2018 - couple months before election day. On 8/31/2018 OCare ceases to exist. Period. Draft it up, vote and pass it. Clean.

Next up: Now, have the conversation on
1) If we are going to have some type of nationalized healthcare
2) Entice competition by allowing plans to be sold across state borders
3) Include other free-market based changes.
4) I can acquiesce to a catastrophic insurance pool. Someone above mentioned a floor of $15k - $20k and above.
5) Congress, their staff, all government employees must be subject to this legislation. No exemptions.

Write this up and vote on it. Got to be passed before 8/31/2018 or people are no longer insured. And in time for election day. Live by it, die by it.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 06, 2017 04:24 PM (jxbfJ)

171 I remember the doctor coming to the house and my mother paying him in cash.
Posted by: JoeF

softball

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:24 PM (cPsPa)

172 The GEE OH PEE WANTS OCARE. They like it. They love it. They want to marry it and have its babies.

Trump can't Executive Order us out of our problems. Our legislators are narcissistic jackanapes who have no incentive to listen to their constituencies.
---
And that's why I am going to vote for NON-politician types every time I can both nationally and locally. Screw the GOPe with the long, thick barbed cock of S@t@n.

Posted by: shibumi, who requires a cute kitty story stat! at April 06, 2017 04:24 PM (NDivk)

173 Like Race Bannon, Pence is the grown-up in the story.
Go Pence!

Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at April 06, 2017 04:24 PM (hMwEB)

174 You were lucky -- I remember the doctor coming to the house and my mother paying him in, uh, "favors."
Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2017 04:22 PM (DQ4Fv)

Oh I remember alright. It was like a carousel....the milk man, the postman, the TV repairman, the kid who delivered the groceries....

Posted by: KaboomKid at April 06, 2017 04:24 PM (7uYFy)

175 Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 06, 2017 04:20 PM (GgzGa)

I would love it.

My mother keeps telling me when she had c sections at Stanford in the 60's. She made payments to the hospital. I can't remember the cost but it was so much cheaper and the care was much better.
Everyone paid their own freight.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 04:24 PM (u8Ywb)

176 OF COURSE it's not how it works now NOR is it in the bill. That's why I was suggesting a compromise that might be palatable to all sides. It sucks, but it sucks less than Obamacare for all.
Posted by: makatta
.............
Ahh.. OK. and makes sense. Cover only the uncoverable.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 04:25 PM (so+oy)

177 The GEE OH PEE WANTS OCARE. They like it. They love it. They want to marry it and have its babies.

Trump can't Executive Order us out of our problems. Our legislators are narcissistic jackanapes who have no incentive to listen to their constituencies.
Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER!

_________

You can blame just about every wing of the Republican Party, including (and mostly) Donald Trump.

he came out just days after the election promising no repeal without something replacing it.

His spokespeople have said it over and over.

Then there's the Republican Governors that are screaming about it.

The the Susan Collins and Murkowski Senators.

And then the Freedom Caucus that will only sign on to a bill that Donald Trump has promised not to sign.

No one is going to get everything they want, except Democrats that seem to fine with the status quo of ObamaCare.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:25 PM (o3uvv)

178 143 Deem It Repealed
Posted by: Lord Sir x at April 06, 2017 04:18 PM (nFwvY)

As much of the act WAS passed under the Reconciliation rule...

And as there WAS a nonseverability clause put in the Act.

Amend the rule (which only takes 51 votes) that if ANY part of an act is passed under Reconciliation, then the entire Act CAN be rescinded under the same reconciliation rule!

Posted by: Don Q. at April 06, 2017 04:25 PM (NgKpN)

179 1. Get sick.
2. Go to doctor.
3. Pay him.

Whaddya think?

Posted by: zombie

It's worked for me for the past decade. It's good that WebMd is free or my costs might have risen by ~1%.

I *can* get covered. But it would feel like I'd be paying the little kid that says, 'Watch your car, Mister?'.

It's actually pretty simple to stay healthy. It's just that most people don't want to live that kind of life.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at April 06, 2017 04:25 PM (HTdUD)

180 California wants to institute single-payer and prohibit private insurance.

Congress can Constitutionally twart this by protecting the right to purchase insurance across state lines.

Posted by: The Medical Hat at April 06, 2017 04:25 PM (rUIbB)

181 Also popular: Herpes, Famine, Clowns.

Posted by: Gallup at April 06, 2017 04:25 PM (oVJmc)

182 I understand that... but those who think that economy of scale will
somehow bring down prices because they can buy across State Lines?

---------

It isn't so much that as opening up sales across state lines will also remove completely States' ability to require any particular coverages and also remove their right to approve the sales of any company's insurance inside their state. THAT will encourage new companies to enter the field.

What is really stupid is that this whole debate is about insurance instead of healthcare. It is as stupid as trying to solve a shortage of vehicles (or trying to bring down the cost of vehicles) by manipulating the cost of car insurance. Jst get rid of the mandates on insurance (which this bill STILL does not do) and encourage people to buy their healthcare directly with all that entails.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:26 PM (FTXAT)

183 in NYC none of the good doctors take insurance, it is cash when you show up; well credit cards work too.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:26 PM (cPsPa)

184 50 As long as you have a no pre-existing rule there is no way on on G-D's green earth that premiums are coming down without huge gov subsidies.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 06, 2017 03:56 PM (KlI/a)

Not true. The only way to bring down the insane prices is to enforce the 100 year old laws on the books that the insurance and health industry have been allowed to break. Enforce the Anti-Trust, Racketeering, and price fixing laws to name a few. Tell them to clean up their act or be charged with felonies. That goes for everybody in the health care industry.

Posted by: Phone of Widespread Pepe at April 06, 2017 04:26 PM (FusDs)

185 The GEE OH PEE WANTS OCARE. They like it. They love it. They want to marry it and have its babies.
...........

ObamaCare has a penis.
GOP has a vagina.

Posted by: wth at April 06, 2017 04:27 PM (HgMAr)

186 It's actually pretty simple to stay healthy. It's just that most people don't want to live that kind of life.
Posted by: E Depluribus Unum
---------------

That's what everyone says, who hasn't been struck by a chronic disease.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 06, 2017 04:27 PM (NBHj5)

187 in NYC none of the good doctors take insurance, it is cash when you show up; well credit cards work too.
Posted by: yankeefifth

_____

That's also how it works in places that have "universal" health care.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:27 PM (o3uvv)

188 Gallup came out with yet another fake poll showing obamacare is very popular now.

I think all those people who answered "yea" to "Medicare for all," should be reminded that it means their future healthcare will be rationed, medical/drug innovation will practically cease, and most importantly, costs got so bad in Merry Olde that they stopped providing epidurals during childbirth.

Now ask that question again.

Posted by: SandyCheeks at April 06, 2017 04:27 PM (joFoi)

189 Why bother even voting for congress or senators anymore. We give them a mandate and *poof* they can do nothing, even with a majority. Congress and their staffers aren't subjected to this shit. So, doesn't make no never mind to them.

Posted by: Infidel at April 06, 2017 04:27 PM (uKRys)

190 >>California wants to institute single-payer and prohibit private insurance.

Just dodged that bullet here in Colorado.
Not only was it not close, it was in the Hell No territory w/82% voting against it. Would this really pass in CA?

Posted by: Lizzy at April 06, 2017 04:27 PM (NOIQH)

191 You think the JEF is on bammycare?

Posted by: Infidel at April 06, 2017 04:28 PM (uKRys)

192 Oh for fuck's sake.

Here.

Let us stipulate the following:

The motherfuckers in the Purity Caucus are stupid stupid doodyheads who have their heads up in their lalala land asses and they just have no idea how reality works and everything is their fault.

Meanwhile, the other motherfuckers in the RINO wing are lying lying lying sacks of shit who have lied for years about repeal and who really don't want to rule as it's more comfortable in the minority and they're lying assholes who lie.

Everyone who doesn't understand the minutiae of Congressional procedures is an uneducated dolt who has no concept of how anything works.

Anyone who focuses more on process than substance is a pathetic shill for the GOP "leadership" HAHAHA look at the funny notion of a GOP leadership HAHAHA who is also an arrogant snot.

I'm a mouthy cunt. (C word exception since I am using it to refer to myself)

There. So stipulated.

Can we please, please, please not have the same arguments for the eleventy billionth time? Because this surpasses even the Horde's ability to flog the deadest of all horses.

It's *boring*.

Posted by: alexthechick - most delicatest flowerest of innocent virtuest at April 06, 2017 04:28 PM (mf5HN)

193 There are many causes of high insurance/medical costs, such as regulations, lawsuits, red tape, &c.

However, most medical costs go to three pools:

1: People with chronic conditions
2: Unexpected medical emergencies
3: End of life

Any long term solution, from wherever the source, will have to address these three.

Posted by: The Medical Hat at April 06, 2017 04:28 PM (rUIbB)

194 The GEE OH PEE WANTS OCARE. They like it. They love it. They want to marry it and have its babies.

Trump can't Executive Order us out of our problems. Our legislators
are narcissistic jackanapes who have no incentive to listen to their
constituencies.

Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER!

But he could have been using his bully pulpit to attack the RINOs and Ryan for not keeping their promise instead of attacking the FC that was.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:28 PM (FTXAT)

195 You have chosen Slow and Horrible.

Have a nice day.

Posted by: Suicide Booth at April 06, 2017 04:28 PM (QQ+il)

196 in NYC none of the good doctors take insurance, it is cash when you show up; well credit cards work too.
Posted by: yankeefifth

_____

That's also how it works in places that have "universal" health care.
Posted by: Maritime

yeah. this started when the hmos got involved. the docs said fuck it and opted out of all of them. the nice doctors will have their assistants file you claim with your insurance company, after you pay your bill.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:29 PM (cPsPa)

197 Can we please, please, please not have the same arguments for the eleventy billionth time? Because this surpasses even the Horde's ability to flog the deadest of all horses.

It's *boring*.
Posted by: alexthechick - most delicatest flowerest of innocent virtuest at April 06, 2017 04:28 PM (mf5HN)

But did the horse have ACCESS to HEALTH CARE?

Hmmm?????

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2017 04:29 PM (s5o+q)

198 RIP Don Rickles, what a loss

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 04:29 PM (39g3+)

199 well, those are issues that need to be resolved, however, resolving them is worthwhile.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:20 PM (cPsPa)

Uhhh.... why?

Medical costs are not equal across the Nation... costs are higher in some places than others...

So how would a non local insurance company even work? How would it drive down actual costs?

Posted by: Don Q. at April 06, 2017 04:30 PM (NgKpN)

200 Most of the spending is for chronic illnesses. On current trajectory, diabetes alone will break the bank.

Is using the high risk pool a potential means to get control over these costs. Best practices? Volume discounts?
Posted by: Ignoramus
................
They need price controls in addition.. My wife's insulin has increased about 800% in the last several years.. being on Medicare now, she (actually me) gets dinged for about $5000 of that in co-pays in and out of the donut hole.. it's brutal.

This is the same insulin they've been selling for many years.. but a few companies have a lock on it, I guess.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 04:30 PM (so+oy)

201
Oh for fuck's sake.

Here.

Let us stipulate the following:

The motherfuckers in the Purity Caucus are stupid stupid doodyheads who have their heads up in their lalala land asses and they just have no idea how reality works and everything is their fault........

--------

HA!!!!

I knew who wrote this even before I scrolled to the bottom.

Posted by: fixerupper at April 06, 2017 04:30 PM (8XRCm)

202 2: Unexpected medical emergencies
---------------------

Dear WebMD,

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 06, 2017 04:30 PM (ZO497)

203 124 A high risk pool is one with more than 75% pee.
Posted by: Pug Mahon at April 06, 2017 04:14 PM (RwwCT)

-----------------

No. It's what's on the floor after a series of sharts.

Posted by: Soona at April 06, 2017 04:30 PM (Fmupd)

204 >>Posted by: alexthechick - most delicatest flowerest of innocent virtuest at April 06, 2017 04:28 PM

You win all the threads today!

Posted by: Lizzy at April 06, 2017 04:30 PM (NOIQH)

205 >>>>>California wants to institute single-payer and prohibit private insurance.

Just dodged that bullet here in Colorado.
Not only was it not close, it was in the Hell No territory w/82% voting against it. Would this really pass in CA?
.
.
.That's because the bill in Colorado had everyone, and I mean everyone paying a 10% gross tax up front on every income stream they had including Social Security.

I don't think the California law is written that way. They are using magic fairy dust to generate the $$$ needed.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at April 06, 2017 04:30 PM (le7jz)

206 Not only was it not close, it was in the Hell No territory w/82% voting against it. Would this really pass in CA?

Posted by: Lizzy at April 06, 2017 04:27 PM (NOIQH)

As a chronically-horrified lifelong resident of CA, the first response to that question that comes to my mind is, "what part of FREE don't you understand?"

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 06, 2017 04:30 PM (8ZskC)

207 Would this really pass in CA?
----------------
You'd be surprised.

Posted by: a judge at April 06, 2017 04:31 PM (nlbfN)

208 Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at April 06, 2017 04:25 PM (HTdUD)

It doesn't always work like that. I've had 4 major abdominal surgeries, 2 back surgeries.

Catastrophic insurance would have been much cheaper than what we've been paying for years.

I would be happy to pay the Dr for things like sinus infection or a Rx for steroids for poison oak.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 04:31 PM (u8Ywb)

209 157 ...baby cannon, trim, yoni, stench trench, honeypot, feesh, rosebud, shame cave, cockholster, cocksheath, minge, glovebox, ...
Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at April 06, 2017 04:21 PM (8UACB

Heh. Baby Cannon. That is the cervix I'd assume.

Posted by: Phone of Widespread Pepe at April 06, 2017 04:31 PM (FusDs)

210 Unexpected medical emergencies
---------------------

Dear WebMD,

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 06, 2017 04:30 PM (ZO497)

Dear PenthouseMD,

I live in a small midwestern town, and . . .

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2017 04:31 PM (s5o+q)

211 It's *boring*.

We could try throwing running chainsaws at each other. Less bloodshed that way.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at April 06, 2017 04:31 PM (4WhSY)

212 Unexpected medical emergencies
---------------------

Dear WebMD,

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc.
--------------------

Oops. Postus Interruptus

Dear WebMD,

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 06, 2017 04:31 PM (ZO497)

213 It's not good for the health of this country that
something this monumental is being done with only one side of the aisle
participating.

I know that's the realities of it and the Dems shat in this bed and
now the rest of us are lying in it, but still. It's not good at all.

I'm going to go find my huge rant about the NYT sob story about
billing codes and repaste it here because a. I want to taunt the Barrel
and II. I hate having a rant go to waste.

brb

Posted by: alexthechick - most delicatest flowerest of innocent virtuest at April 06, 2017 03:59 PM (mf5HN)

It may not be but here we are. The Democrats have been shitting that particular bed since FDR. This Republic needs to be restored and that ain't gonna be supported by the free shit army that votes Dem.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:31 PM (FTXAT)

214 Jst get rid of the mandates on insurance (which this
bill STILL does not do) and encourage people to buy their healthcare
directly with all that entails.

Posted by: redbanzai

>>>>>>>

*ties rising sun bandana on forehead, grabs sword and runs swinging thru Rayburn Building* - BANZAI!!!!!

Posted by: MSTisdale at April 06, 2017 04:32 PM (g9d8D)

215 Uhhh.... why?

Medical costs are not equal across the Nation... costs are higher in some places than others...

So how would a non local insurance company even work? How would it drive down actual costs?
Posted by: Don Q

how would it hurt? how does less regulation hurt in general? may not solve every problem but not likely to make things worse.

what is your objection to lessening regulation and increasing competition?

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:32 PM (cPsPa)

216 Just dodged that bullet here in Colorado.
Not only was it not close, it was in the Hell No territory w/82% voting against it. Would this really pass in CA?

Posted by: Lizzy at April 06, 2017 04:27 PM (NOIQH)

No, it would lose here too...

But then some Judge would decide its a Civil Right.... and then we'd be forced into Single Payer (just like Gay Marriage)....

Its coming folks... and it will be imposed by Judges...

Posted by: Don Q. at April 06, 2017 04:32 PM (NgKpN)

217 Health insurance should only cover at the core caststrophic/life threatening illness. If you want to pay for more, then lay out the money, but it should not have to cover "maintenance" or check ups or preventative or any of that crap. All that is just bloat to make more money for insurers (its a reliable, low-end cost that doesn't spike or become open-ended like serious illness).

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 04:32 PM (39g3+)

218 Anyone who focuses more on process than substance is a pathetic shill for the GOP "leadership" HAHAHA look at the funny notion of a GOP leadership HAHAHA who is also an arrogant snot.

Posted by: alexthechick - most delicatest flowerest of innocent virtuest at April 06, 2017 04:28 PM (mf5HN)

Process and rules are important. I hereby invoke Chesterton's Fence.

Posted by: The Medical Hat at April 06, 2017 04:32 PM (rUIbB)

219 https://youtu.be/DWvJCYyoDZQ

My favorite Don Rickles story as told by Frank Sinatra on Johnny Carson...

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 04:32 PM (so+oy)

220 Computer has assumed a life of it's own. I am no longer responsible for any posts with my nic.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 06, 2017 04:32 PM (ZO497)

221 "California wants to institute single-payer and prohibit private insurance."

Better than that. Totally free single-payer for everyone in the state, legally present or not. You're here? Everything is paid for!

Even Moonbeam Brown looked askance at the numbers, and noted that they're talking about something like four hundred and eighty billion dollars _a year_ to make the nut.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 06, 2017 04:32 PM (noWW6)

222 My husband was going to have a procedure. Under insurance, it's $2,500. Which we would still pay becuz of high deductible plan. If he paid cash, it's less than $500. He wanted to pay cash, But the medical group didn't want him to since he has insurance. It's Insanity.

Posted by: LASue at April 06, 2017 04:33 PM (CLKfs)

223 I hope I'm wrong, but I think both sides are just going to think that they will get more of what they want at a later point when ObamaCare has failed in certain markets. So they'll say "my way or the highway!"

I just don't think voters are going to reward the GOP if they can't fix this when they are in charge.

I also don't believe ObamaCare collapsing is going to change the dynamics of how it is to be fixed.

Math has never been very persuasive on any entitlement reform.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:33 PM (o3uvv)

224 205 That's because the bill in Colorado had everyone, and I mean everyone paying a 10% gross tax up front on every income stream they had including Social Security.

I don't think the California law is written that way. They are using magic fairy dust to generate the $$$ needed.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at April 06, 2017 04:30 PM (le7jz)

=================

Let them do it.

But if I were a federal government elected official, I'd start making noises about refusing any bailouts.

About bankrupt states being punished for their inability to budget.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 06, 2017 04:33 PM (mC1ZI)

225 It took me reaching curmudgeon-hood to realize what a treasure Don Rickles was. Rest in Peace, ya hockey-puck.

Posted by: Pug Mahon at April 06, 2017 04:33 PM (RwwCT)

226 >>>You were lucky -- I remember the doctor coming to the house and my mother paying him in, uh, "favors."
Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2017 04:22 PM (DQ4Fv)

Better than getting paid in bukkake, I guess...

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at April 06, 2017 04:33 PM (8UACB)

227 Computer has assumed a life of it's own. I am no longer responsible for any posts with my nic.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 06, 2017 04:32 PM (ZO497)

Just confuse it with logical fallacies. Always works for me.

Posted by: James T. Kirk at April 06, 2017 04:33 PM (s5o+q)

228 Computer has assumed a life of it's own. I am no longer responsible for any posts with my nic.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 06, 2017 04:32 PM (ZO497)

I have exactly the same problem with Twitter and my phone.

Posted by: Anthony Wiener at April 06, 2017 04:33 PM (8ZskC)

229 in NYC none of the good doctors take insurance, it is cash when you show up; well credit cards work too.
Posted by: yankeefifth

Which is exactly what the nomenklatura of the GOPe and Dem-Dems want anyway.

Keep the riff-raff out of their private mini-markets.

There's a inner, quarter circle of hell for those that espouse free market ideals and practice rent-seeking statism.

8th Circle
Fraud, bolgia 5 Barrators
bolgia 6 hypocrites
bolgia 7 thieves
bolgia 8 counselors of fraud

...

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (GgzGa)

230 Computer has assumed a life of it's own. I am no longer responsible for any posts with my nic.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 06, 2017 04:32 PM (ZO497)

--------

Let's play a game......

Posted by: fixerupper at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (8XRCm)

231
Would this really pass in CA?
Posted by: Lizzy at April 06, 2017 04:27 PM (NOIQH)

I doubt it CA has a population of 38 million and I think even the CA democrats know that would blow the budget out of the water.

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (lKyWE)

232 yeah. this started when the hmos got involved.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:29 PM (cPsPa)

Yep. They wanted us to pay for their risky behavior.

Posted by: Lord Sir x at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (nFwvY)

233 You were lucky -- I remember the doctor coming to the house and my mother paying him in, uh, "favors."
Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2017 04:22 PM (DQ4Fv)

Better than getting paid in bukkake, I guess...
Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at April 06, 2017 04:33 PM (8UACB)

Alternate spelling for "consultation?"

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (s5o+q)

234 131 You'd be AMAZED how much health care costs drop when
people have to pay their own way--even with a bargain-with-the-devil
Federal subsidy check.

But that subsidy MUST go to individuals, not health care or insurance companies. Otherwise poof! go any cost savings.

Things Any Sane Person Should Know BEFORE Econ 101.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2017 04:15 PM (s5o+q)

That is never going to happen until you get the lawyers out of the health care buisness. And that will never happen unless we make it illegal to be a lawyer in congress.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (mpXpK)

235 175
Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 06, 2017 04:20 PM (GgzGa)

I would love it.

My mother keeps telling me when she had c sections at Stanford in
the 60's. She made payments to the hospital. I can't remember the cost
but it was so much cheaper and the care was much better.

Everyone paid their own freight.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 04:24 PM (u8Ywb)

My mother told me that when my grandmother gave birth, my grandfather would gather up what he called "bail money" from working overtime. This was the hospital bills for mom baby. All was well and good for 5 births - they were all girls.
Then came first son (my uncle). My grandfather had the bail money ready except for the extra procedure they do on boys - the circumcision. Totally forgot about that bill. When my grandfather passed away we were going through his papers and actually found a hospital bill for my uncle's circumcision where they were asking for payment.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (jxbfJ)

236 No one is going to get everything they want, except Democrats that seem to fine with the status quo of ObamaCare.

Posted by: Maritime
=====
Their Democrats ? Or ours?

Trump always said that he wanted to "cover everybody". I didn't expect anything else.

It's about the money. It's ALWAYS about the money. Except Trump. Who doesn't need or want it.

Ideology has nothing to do with it for these Congressclowns. They stand to lose a megashitload of phat stax if they repeal. Ocare is a kickass bribe laundering scheme.

Worst comes to worst? No repeal , status quo and Congress doesn't have to live with it.

I disagree with Trump on this. But how can I blame him for doing what he said he would do?

Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER! at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (fLMbU)

237 As mentioned above, the primary reason for the astronomical increase in health insurance premiums, in addition to all the ridiculous mandates on insurance companies, is the elimination of pre-existing conditions for eligibility.

In my opinion, only way to fix it is to have the government underwrite certain chronic diseases (cancer, diabetes, etc) or eliminate the pre-existing mandate all together and let all hell break loose.

This is a no-win situation, but the pre-existing condition mandate was a incredibly high tax on middle Americans. The poor pay little or nothing and the very wealthy don't even notice the cost.

Posted by: Ladylibertarian at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (TdMsT)

238 Now that we're getting close to deal and people are a bit more serious about how things are going to shape up...

I said from the beginning that the "grand deal" should be this: Universal, single payer Medicare for catastrophic care only.

All other healthcare, except for the items covered under the catastrophic universal care, are direct pay to the provider. Basically no insurance.

Every citizen would have a Health Savings Account, funded either with tax-free dollars from the citizens pocket or a subsidy provided by the government. From that account, individuals would pay for everyday care and non-catastrophic illnesses.

A small market would still be available to the insurance companies to sell policies to people who want coverage for procedures not covered by the universal Medicare. These would be items deemed not worth treating by the government "death panel". If you want, you can still buy insurance for and get treatment that most of society would deem a waste of time and money.

This would be the best mix of independent, free market healthcare an "we're not going to let people die on the hospital steps" socialism.

Posted by: jwest at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (Zs4uk)

239 I don't think the California law is written that way. They are using magic fairy dust to generate the $$$ needed.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at April 06, 2017 04:30 PM (le7jz)

If they outlaw private insurance in CA the good doctors will set up shop in Vegas or Arizona.

I'll see a Dr that doesn't accept insurance. Watch them outlaw that.
Dr's offices that accept medi cal are a no go for me.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (u8Ywb)

240 I was a bill
I was only a bill
But I made it off of Capitol Hill

It was a long, long journey
To the desk of the Preezy
But a short, short before
Before he slapped veto on me

But I remember hearing Paul Ryan say
With a Repub White House I'd be law some day

I hope and pray that I will
But today I am still just a bill

Posted by: HR 3762 at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (BHaRb)

241
Ha.

Today - National Alcohol Screening Day.

Tmrw. - National Beer Day.

YOU CAN CELEBRATE BOTH WITH PERFECT TIMING.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 06, 2017 04:35 PM (ODxAs)

242 They need price controls in addition.. My wife's
insulin has increased about 800% in the last several years.. being on
Medicare now, she (actually me) gets dinged for about $5000 of that in
co-pays in and out of the donut hole.. it's brutal.

This is the same insulin they've been selling for many years.. but a few companies have a lock on it, I guess.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 04:30 PM (so+oy)

Many concierge medical practices have also been negotiating directly with drug companies for discounts of up to 95%.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:35 PM (FTXAT)

243 Computer has assumed a life of it's own. I am no longer responsible for any posts with my nic.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc.

Nor for assuming any responsibility to stay healthy, I notice.

External v internal. The entire nation has become external.

No one will lower costs or premiums until that ratio changes.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at April 06, 2017 04:35 PM (HTdUD)

244 231
Would this really pass in CA?
Posted by: Lizzy at April 06, 2017 04:27 PM (NOIQH)

I doubt it CA has a population of 38 million and I think even the CA democrats know that would blow the budget out of the water.
Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (lKyWE)

================

Please.

High Speed Rail paid with an untested funding source? That funding source is failing? Oh, the state is continuing with it.

I'd be surprised if most of their state representatives had anything close to an understanding of finance.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 06, 2017 04:35 PM (mC1ZI)

245 Computer has assumed a life of it's own. I am no longer responsible for any posts with my nic.

Bet the cat loaded some malware on the machine when you had your back turned. Cats are almost as bad as Russian hackers.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at April 06, 2017 04:35 PM (4WhSY)

246 Wait wait, I have a new Health Care Proposal:

1. Get sick.
2. Go to doctor.
3. Pay him.

Whaddya think?

Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2017 04:19 PM (DQ4Fv)

President Trump was very up-front in the primaries regarding his views on healthcare, even going so far as to express his admiration for the single-payer systems in Canada and the UK--which put him right alongside Bernie Sanders on the issue.

So you don't like socialized medicine? That's nice, but no Trump supporter can say they didn't know about Trump's views on this issue or place the blame solely on Congress for whatever piece of crap legislation they come up with.

Posted by: troyriser at April 06, 2017 04:35 PM (Fw5cQ)

247 230
Computer has assumed a life of it's own. I am no longer responsible for any posts with my nic.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 06, 2017 04:32 PM (ZO497)

--------

Let's play a game......

Posted by: fixerupper at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (8XRCm)

How about thermo-nuclear war?

Oh wait - Bitch McConnell already did that today in the Senate.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 06, 2017 04:35 PM (jxbfJ)

248 You were lucky -- I remember the doctor coming to the house and my mother paying him in, uh, "favors."
Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2017 04:22 PM (DQ4Fv)

Better than getting paid in bukkake, I guess...
Posted by: Banana Splits Guy

pretty sure that is a form of favor

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:36 PM (cPsPa)

249 200 Most of the spending is for chronic illnesses. On current trajectory, diabetes alone will break the bank.

Is using the high risk pool a potential means to get control over these costs. Best practices? Volume discounts?
Posted by: Ignoramus
................
They need price controls in addition.. My wife's insulin has increased about 800% in the last several years.. being on Medicare now, she (actually me) gets dinged for about $5000 of that in co-pays in and out of the donut hole.. it's brutal.

This is the same insulin they've been selling for many years.. but a few companies have a lock on it, I guess.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 06, 2017 04:30 PM (so+

Crazy how these medications are pennies on the dollar in other countries and are bankrupting citizens in this country. Also it's against the law for Americans to buy and bring back foreign medications into this country.

Posted by: Phone of Widespread Pepe at April 06, 2017 04:36 PM (FusDs)

250 >>But then some Judge would decide its a Civil Right.... and then we'd be forced into Single Payer (just like Gay Marriage)....

What killed me w/Colorado is that we had the single-payer healthcare AND assisted suicide on the last ballot. Hello - are you trying to make that slope extra slippery? Sadly, assisted suicide did win.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 06, 2017 04:36 PM (NOIQH)

251 If preexisting is the holdup why not make those people with those issues buy into state medicaid at their current premium and adjust it over time for inflation?

That has got to be cheaper than what's happening now.

Then the insurance companies are off the hook and so are their other customers.

Yeah yeah taxpayers are on the hook.

Who the hell cares about taxpayers anyway?

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 06, 2017 04:36 PM (X+nFp)

252 So how would a non local insurance company even work? How would it drive down actual costs?

I believe in theory it would broaden the customer base, so the variations in what's necessary to cover and the number of people paying in makes it less costly overall. In theory.

In practice, I doubt it would help much and would create even more problems in the end.

Health insurance should be non profit, to begin with. No more drive to earn money and be accountable to a board of stock holders. No more pressure to make more money every year.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 04:36 PM (39g3+)

253 I doubt it CA has a population of 38 million and I think even the CA democrats know that would blow the budget out of the water.
Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (lKyWE)

This is a joke, right? Have you ever LISTENED TO our legislators?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 06, 2017 04:36 PM (8ZskC)

254 Gosh golly gee wilikers, fixer, how on Earth did you know it was me?

*frolicbounds*

But did the horse have ACCESS to HEALTH CARE?

Hmmm?????
Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2017 04:29 PM (s5o+q)

*flamethrows filbert*

Mmmmm toasty nuts.

Posted by: alexthechick - most delicatest flowerest of innocent virtuest at April 06, 2017 04:37 PM (mf5HN)

255 "He wanted to pay cash, But the medical group didn't want him to since he has insurance. It's Insanity."

It's no doubt contractually stipulated between the medical group and the insurance carriers that the group can't accept cash payors.

In other lines of business, this is called "restraint of trade".

Posted by: torquewrench at April 06, 2017 04:37 PM (noWW6)

256 Blow the California budget? What you talking about Willis?

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 06, 2017 04:37 PM (6Ll1u)

257 Wait wait, I have a new Health Care Proposal:

1. Get sick.
2. Go to doctor.
3. Pay him.

Whaddya think?

Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2017 04:19 PM (DQ4Fv)

It's crazy, but it just might work.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 06, 2017 04:37 PM (8ZskC)

258 President Trump was very up-front in the primaries regarding his views on healthcare, even going so far as to express his admiration for the single-payer systems in Canada and the UK--which put him right alongside Bernie Sanders on the issue.

So you don't like socialized medicine? That's nice, but no Trump supporter can say they didn't know about Trump's views on this issue or place the blame solely on Congress for whatever piece of crap legislation they come up with.
Posted by: troyriser at April 06, 2017 04:35 PM (Fw5cQ)

===================

This is why the right side of the House needs to play whatever cards it has very strongly.

The leader of their party is very open to very lefty solutions in health care.

Blessed by the fact that Democrats won't help with anything that has a hint of "repeal" about it, the right of the caucus holds many cards, especially with Trump wanting a win no matter what.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 06, 2017 04:37 PM (mC1ZI)

259 My coming out killed Uncle Don!

Posted by: Barry Manilow at April 06, 2017 04:38 PM (bc2Lc)

260
Spazzy cat what laughs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m71rElwEVqM

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX v1.1.01 at April 06, 2017 04:38 PM (4fzLM)

261 Oh goody, single payer here in CA.
I'll ride high speed rail to get my free health care.

Posted by: wth at April 06, 2017 04:38 PM (HgMAr)

262 237 As mentioned above, the primary reason for the astronomical increase in health insurance premiums, in addition to all the ridiculous mandates on insurance companies, is the elimination of pre-existing conditions for eligibility.

In my opinion, only way to fix it is to have the government underwrite certain chronic diseases (cancer, diabetes, etc) or eliminate the pre-existing mandate all together and let all hell break loose.

This is a no-win situation, but the pre-existing condition mandate was a incredibly high tax on middle Americans. The poor pay little or nothing and the very wealthy don't even notice the cost.
Posted by: Ladylibertarian at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (TdMsT)

Its bound to fail. Again you can't buy home insurance after your house is on fire.
Also, could you imagine if your employer paid for your auto insurance which covered all maintenance including car washes/detailing, oil changes, new tires? Third party payer problem.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 04:38 PM (u8Ywb)

263 Health insurance should be non profit, to begin with. No more drive to earn money and be accountable to a board of stock holders. No more pressure to make more money every year.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 04:36 PM (39g3+)

-----

Soooo.... make it just like the DMV.

Posted by: fixerupper at April 06, 2017 04:38 PM (8XRCm)

264 247 Oh wait - Bitch McConnell already did that today in the Senate.
Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 06, 2017 04:35 PM (jxbfJ)

================

I knew it wouldn't last long, the Mitch appreciation moment.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 06, 2017 04:38 PM (mC1ZI)

265 256
Blow the California budget? What you talking about Willis?

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 06, 2017 04:37 PM (6Ll1u)

Someone say they want something blown?

Posted by: Barry Manilow at April 06, 2017 04:38 PM (jxbfJ)

266 220 Computer has assumed a life of it's own. I am no longer responsible for any posts with my nic.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 06, 2017 04:32 PM (ZO497)

Good. I'm off the hook. Hehehehe.

Posted by: Mike Hammer's Cat at April 06, 2017 04:38 PM (Fmupd)

267 *flamethrows filbert*

Mmmmm toasty nuts.
Posted by: alexthechick - most delicatest flowerest of innocent virtuest at April 06, 2017 04:37 PM (mf5HN)

True, I am best when "toasted."

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2017 04:38 PM (s5o+q)

268 If CA goes for universal health care, my guess is every illegal not already there packs up and moves there over night.

Might be a good way to keep them quarantined.

But a state can't borrow like the federal government can, it can't kick the can nearly as long.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:38 PM (o3uvv)

269 Health Insurance, my plan, quick version.

Every "US Person" gets a catastrophic plan at $10,000 per year per family or $5,000 for an individual. This is paid for by the Federal Government by asking for bids to Insurance companies. Everything after the deductible amount is covered.

Then also as part of the same law Health Savings Accounts are given tax deductiblity up to the annual Cat. deductible and any amount that exceeds twice the deductible can be taken out for other purposes tax free.

Subsidies provided under tax law for those whose income is less than 10 times the deductible which would be a refundable tax credit to their HSA equal to the deductible minus 10% of their income until their HSA equals the limit of twice their deductible.

This gives positive incentives to government, insurers and the people insured to spend wisely. IMHO

Posted by: geoffb5 at April 06, 2017 04:38 PM (d3wbb)

270
how would it hurt? how does less regulation hurt in general? may not solve every problem but not likely to make things worse.

what is your objection to lessening regulation and increasing competition?
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:32 PM (cPsPa)

Because it would do neither?

There would end up being more regulation, as you would not just have State Regulations, but Fed regulations... because Interstate Commerce...

And there would not be more competition, because 'if' an insurance company wanted to expand into an area, they would still have to build the network of Doctors... and ensure they have sufficient coverage...

Just like companies do NOW...

How many Health insurance companies are even LEFT? We've seen huge consolidation in the industry already...

And don't even get me started on the amount of new office staff they would have to hire, to deal with all the new out of state insurance companies...

(Disclaimer, I've worked in IT supporting Doctor's Offices for many years... and watched the office staffs explode...).

Posted by: Don Q. at April 06, 2017 04:39 PM (NgKpN)

271 >>I disagree with Trump on this. But how can I blame him for doing what he said he would do?

The problem in the House is you have a lot of people all trying to do what they promised and have been long before Trump came along.

Republicans are a pretty big tent these days and there are a lot of constituencies to be served and whether people like it or not process does matter.

The filibuster is irrelevant. There aren't even 5o votes for a straight repeal in the Senate. Anyone who thought this was going to be easy was kidding themselves.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 06, 2017 04:39 PM (/tuJf)

272

In practice, I doubt it would help much and would create even more problems in the end.

Health insurance should be non profit, to begin with. No more drive to earn money and be accountable to a board of stock holders. No more pressure to make more money every year.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 04:36 PM (39g3+)

I have said the same for YEARS.

Posted by: Ladylibertarian at April 06, 2017 04:39 PM (TdMsT)

273 Sometimes my patients pay me with chickens.

Posted by: Doc Adams of Dodge City at April 06, 2017 04:39 PM (IqV8l)

274 263 Health insurance should be non profit, to begin with. No more drive to earn money and be accountable to a board of stock holders. No more pressure to make more money every year.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 04:36 PM (39g3+)

-----

Soooo.... make it just like the DMV.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 06, 2017 04:38 PM (8XRCm)

=================

Health insurance, and all of medicine, should be extremely profit conscious.

It's the profit motive that drives down prices.

The fact that doctors don't actually compete with each other is one major problem with health care in general.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 06, 2017 04:39 PM (mC1ZI)

275
Which is exactly what the nomenklatura of the GOPe and Dem-Dems want anyway.

Keep the riff-raff out of their private mini-markets.

There's a inner, quarter circle of hell for those that espouse free market ideals and practice rent-seeking statism.

8th Circle

Fraud, bolgia 5 Barrators

bolgia 6 hypocrites

bolgia 7 thieves

bolgia 8 counselors of fraud

...

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (GgzGa)

That isn't it at all... many doctors have figured out they can provide better care at cheaper prices if they don't take insurance at all. I am seriously considering dropping my employer provided insurance and joining a concierge service here because I would be paying about a 1/4 of what my insurance costs me.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:39 PM (FTXAT)

276 well someone needs to explain to everyone how insurance in general works.

some insurance company has been running commercials in which women complain how their insurance policy did not cover their accident, then the voice over comes on and explains how their insurance covers everything and buys you two brand new cars.

no one ever explains that cheap insurance does not cover much and great insurance is going to cost lots.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:39 PM (cPsPa)

277 264
247 Oh wait - Bitch McConnell already did that today in the Senate.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 06, 2017 04:35 PM (jxbfJ)

================

I knew it wouldn't last long, the Mitch appreciation moment.

Wasn't meant to be an appreciation moment - just a tongue in cheek comment. He is still a rat.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at April 06, 2017 04:39 PM (jxbfJ)

278 >>>pretty sure that is a form of favor
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:36 PM (cPsPa)

:::makes note to run if yankeefifth ever asks for a favor:::

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at April 06, 2017 04:40 PM (8UACB)

279 I was just informed that this year my coverage increases from $305 to $525 a month with a $6000 deductible.

And, no sh*t, this was laid out right before the paragraph telling me that gender f*cking "reassignment" treatment is now totally covered.

Hey, I don't need that mental illness or pregnancy coverage. Want it? Fine. Team up with other mentally ill and/or pregnant folks and reduce your costs. Don't bill me an extra $200+ per month, though.

Posted by: Moron Robbie at April 06, 2017 04:40 PM (fD1ST)

280 You were lucky -- I remember the doctor coming to the house and my mother paying him in, uh, "favors."

Are you Forrest Gump?

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 04:40 PM (39g3+)

281 Computer has assumed a life of it's own. I am no longer responsible for any posts with my nic.

And from that we now have a Russian hacking the election charges.

Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 04:40 PM (Ot7+c)

282 *frolicbounds*

Posted by: alexthechick - most delicatest flowerest of innocent virtuest at April 06, 2017 04:37 PM

*places chin on hands, watches the frolicbounding*

*sigh*

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at April 06, 2017 04:40 PM (p+Wdc)

283 Health insurance should be non profit, to begin with. No more drive to earn money and be accountable to a board of stock holders. No more pressure to make more money every year.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 04:36 PM (39g3+)

-----

Soooo.... make it just like the DMV.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 06, 2017 04:38 PM (8XRCm)

Actually, requiring insurance companies to be "mutual" i.e. owned by the policy-holders is an idea that might deserve some serious consideration.

Not saying I'd be for it, just that it might bear some thinking-about.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2017 04:40 PM (s5o+q)

284 Gosh golly gee wilikers, fixer, how on Earth did you know it was me?

------

Lets call it a unique panache.

**look sorrowfully at filberts ashes..... but better thee than me.

Posted by: fixerupper at April 06, 2017 04:40 PM (8XRCm)

285 The fact that doctors don't actually compete with each other is one major problem with health care in general.

The Octagon: Two cardiologists enter, one cardiologist leaves.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 06, 2017 04:41 PM (8ZskC)

286 Today - National Alcohol Screening Day.

Tmrw. - National Beer Day.

YOU CAN CELEBRATE BOTH WITH PERFECT TIMING.

It's also Adult Learn to Swim Month.

A Trifecta!

Posted by: Grump928(c) at April 06, 2017 04:41 PM (QQ+il)

287 How exactly is a nonprofit the same as the DMV, other than "I smoked 18 bowls of LSD-laced weed last night and it came to me"??

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 04:42 PM (39g3+)

288 That isn't it at all... many doctors have figured out they can provide better care at cheaper prices if they don't take insurance at all. I am seriously considering dropping my employer provided insurance and joining a concierge service here because I would be paying about a 1/4 of what my insurance costs me.
Posted by: redbanzai

______

How do you legally not pay for health insurance?

I'm honestly asking, I didn't think being a member of a concierge service was a loophole

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:42 PM (o3uvv)

289 look sorrowfully at filberts ashes..... but better thee than me.
=====

#NutLivesMatter

Posted by: a Smirking Animatronic Cashew at April 06, 2017 04:43 PM (fLMbU)

290 I believe insurance companies started out non profit then someone said "I bet I could get rich off this!" and we were off to the races.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 04:43 PM (39g3+)

291 **look sorrowfully at filberts ashes..... but better thee than me.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 06, 2017 04:40 PM (8XRCm)

I'm actually a tough nut to crack.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2017 04:43 PM (s5o+q)

292 Until you get that stupid form from the insurance company showing you what they did and did not pay and the discount they made the doc take, you have no idea what the doc is charging you anyway.

Or how much you have to pay them.

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 06, 2017 04:43 PM (X+nFp)

293 #NutLivesMatter

Couldn't agree more.

Posted by: Peter North at April 06, 2017 04:43 PM (4WhSY)

294 Because it would do neither?

There would end up being more regulation, as you would not just have State Regulations, but Fed regulations... because Interstate Commerce...

And there would not be more competition, because 'if' an insurance company wanted to expand into an area, they would still have to build the network of Doctors... and ensure they have sufficient coverage...

Just like companies do NOW...

How many Health insurance companies are even LEFT? We've seen huge consolidation in the industry already...

And don't even get me started on the amount of new office staff they would have to hire, to deal with all the new out of state insurance companies...

(Disclaimer, I've worked in IT supporting Doctor's Offices for many years... and watched the office staffs explode...).
Posted by: Don Q. at April 06, 2017 04:39 PM (NgKpN)

yeah, deregulation has never resulted in more competition and lower prices. so your plan is less if it ain't broke don't fix it and more if it is broke don't touch it because something.

who says insurance companies need networks? the best insurance policies simply reimburse you for a percentage of your costs.

you are putting a lot of effort into defending something stupid

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:43 PM (cPsPa)

295 That isn't it at all... many doctors have figured out they can provide better care at cheaper prices if they don't take insurance at all. I am seriously considering dropping my employer provided insurance and joining a concierge service here because I would be paying about a 1/4 of what my insurance costs me.
Posted by: redbanzai

You miss my point entirely.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 06, 2017 04:44 PM (GgzGa)

296 The way they could've brought down premiums immediately was trust Trump/Dr. Price were going to change the rules about what is a valid plan under the ACA. They could've sliced off the 'required benefits' to make it cheaper that way.

I guarantee you, part of what the Freedom Caucus wanted was a pat on the back from voters for 'lowering the costs of insurance' by adding this to the bill.

When they could've trusted Trump was going to do step 2 the minute the mandate was removed. But of COURSE they want to be able to say to their voters, "I personally lowered the cost of health insurance."

It's all about ego people.

Posted by: K-E at April 06, 2017 04:44 PM (ePvML)

297 A lay person doesn't understand why a 5 minute office visit to refill a prescription and answer a few questions costs $150. I'm one of those 'lay' people.

Posted by: Jack Sock at April 06, 2017 04:45 PM (wH8rX)

298 **look sorrowfully at filberts ashes..... but better thee than me.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 06, 2017 04:40 PM (8XRCm)

I'm actually a tough nut to crack.
Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2017 04:43 PM (s5o+q)

----

That was acorny pun.

Cashew later though...

Posted by: fixerupper at April 06, 2017 04:45 PM (8XRCm)

299 Sun came out here after being a miserable day and thunder showers all afternoon

Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 04:45 PM (Ot7+c)

300 My Blue Cross and Blue Shield is a non-profit, it's run like a credit union where it's member owned.

The idea that insurance companies making big profits is why health care is so expensive is a liberal fantasy.

If you confiscated all profits and gave them back, it would drop people's bills by like 5%.

I'm no fan of insurance companies, but their profits are not the problem.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:45 PM (o3uvv)

301 LegalInsurrection is back on line

Posted by: Skip at April 06, 2017 04:46 PM (Ot7+c)

302 A lay person doesn't understand why a 5 minute office visit to refill a prescription and answer a few questions costs $150. I'm one of those 'lay' people.
Posted by: Jack Sock at April 06, 2017 04:45 PM (wH8rX)

The cotton ball and tape to cover where blood was drawn- surgical supplies.

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 06, 2017 04:46 PM (X+nFp)

303 273 Sometimes my patients pay me with chickens.
Posted by: Doc Adams of Dodge City at April 06, 2017 04:39 PM (IqV8l)

My dentist is my friend and he does trades. He'll do a crown for someone that doesn't have a lot of money, they pay his cost for the supplies and the patient will give him golf lessons for example.

I also used to work for a cardiologist, he's very kind. He waives his fee on a case by case basis and also would get the drug rep to supply the patient with their meds that they could not afford.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 04:46 PM (Yeic3)

304 When they could've trusted Trump was going to do step 2 the minute the mandate was removed.

I don't trust him.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at April 06, 2017 04:46 PM (QQ+il)

305 It's a Gordian knot.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at April 06, 2017 04:47 PM (VdICR)

306 >>The way they could've brought down premiums immediately was trust Trump/Dr. Price were going to change the rules about what is a valid plan under the ACA. They could've sliced off the 'required benefits' to make it cheaper that way.

>>I guarantee you, part of what the Freedom Caucus wanted was a pat on the back from voters for 'lowering the costs of insurance' by adding this to the bill.

>>When they could've trusted Trump was going to do step 2 the minute the mandate was removed. But of COURSE they want to be able to say to their voters, "I personally lowered the cost of health insurance."

>>It's all about ego people.

Bingo. It was Sebelius who put most of these restrictions in after the framework was passed. Price has the ability to take them out.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 06, 2017 04:47 PM (/tuJf)

307 183
in NYC none of the good doctors take insurance, it is cash when you show up; well credit cards work too.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:26 PM (cPsPa)

One of my doctors moved down from NYC. He said it was almost impossible to practice medicine in NYC.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 06, 2017 04:47 PM (mpXpK)

308 Break out your erasers, boys!!!!

On Chemical Weapons Attack International Media Turn to Former Doctor Accused of Kidnapping Journalists

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 06, 2017 04:47 PM (GgzGa)

309 Now that we're getting close to deal and people are a bit more serious about how things are going to shape up...

I said from the beginning that the "grand deal" should be this: Universal, single payer Medicare for catastrophic care only.

All other healthcare, except for the items covered under the
catastrophic universal care, are direct pay to the provider. Basically
no insurance.

Every citizen would have a Health Savings Account, funded either
with tax-free dollars from the citizens pocket or a subsidy provided by
the government. From that account, individuals would pay for everyday
care and non-catastrophic illnesses.

A small market would still be available to the insurance companies
to sell policies to people who want coverage for procedures not covered
by the universal Medicare. These would be items deemed not worth
treating by the government "death panel". If you want, you can still
buy insurance for and get treatment that most of society would deem a
waste of time and money.

This would be the best mix of independent, free market healthcare an
"we're not going to let people die on the hospital steps" socialism.

Posted by: jwest at April 06, 2017 04:34 PM (Zs4uk)

No amount of socialism is good and no amount is the end... fans of socialism always want more and always get more eventually once the advocates of freedom give in at all. Like the joke about the woman in the bar, once they've established what the rest of us are it is all about negotiating up the amount of freedom we will yield.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:47 PM (FTXAT)

310 some insurance company has been running commercials in which women complain how their insurance policy did not cover their accident, then the voice over comes on and explains how their insurance covers everything and buys you two brand new cars

This is interesting because as an insured, you're not just having your loss made whole (i.e., the depreciated value of the car). You're getting a bonus -- a prize -- for being in an accident. You get more than you actually lost. That means it's not insurance, it's a lottery.

If a homeowners insurer sells policies by promising to pay the homeowner ONE MILLION DOLLARS if his home happens to be destroyed by a highly-unlikely lightning strike, regardless of the size of the actual loss, can it get away with it? Don't think so. But the auto insurers are doing the same thing.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 06, 2017 04:47 PM (8ZskC)

311 " ...baby cannon, trim, yoni, stench trench, honeypot, feesh, rosebud, shame cave, cockholster, cocksheath, minge, glovebox"

Dickmitten, He-hole, she taco, tektek, hoo hah, dink divot, papaya, hog bog....

Posted by: Senators Lemming, Spineless, Quisling, Gutless et. al at April 06, 2017 04:47 PM (1aMQH)

312 274 263 Health insurance should be non profit, to begin with. No more drive to earn money and be accountable to a board of stock holders. No more pressure to make more money every year.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 04:36 PM (39g3+)

-----

Soooo.... make it just like the DMV.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 06, 2017 04:38 PM (8XRCm)

=================

Health insurance, and all of medicine, should be extremely profit conscious.

It's the profit motive that drives down prices.

The fact that doctors don't actually compete with each other is one major problem with health care in general.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 06, 2017 04:39 PM (mC1ZI)

That's gotta be one'o the dumbest positions ever taken.

Anyone here ever complain how badly for-profit institutions are run? Just wait until you experience the churning cauldrons of dysfunction and inefficiency that are nonprofits.

It boggles the mind, and makes the most poorly run for-profits look like finely tuned swiss watches.

Posted by: West at April 06, 2017 04:47 PM (1Rgee)

313 Until you get that stupid form from the insurance company showing you what they did and did not pay and the discount they made the doc take, you have no idea what the doc is charging you anyway.

Or how much you have to pay them.
Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 06, 2017 04:43 PM (X+nFp)

My wife and I just got the Explanation Of Benefits form from the insurance company we had to go to after the one we had dropped our coverage (Thanks, Obama!) and we both had physicals with a new doctor since our old one isn't in-network with the new insurance company (Thanks, Obama), and . . .

We both had lab tests done. She had five come back "fully covered" whilst the exact same tests for me were billed with a 50% copay.

I called the clinic, and was told "Oh, that's probably because your wife's tests were routine, and yours were 'medically necessary.' We'll put them back through as 'routine'."

So much, so very, very much wasted time because Obamacare--my time, my wife's time, the doctor's time, the lab's time, the clinic office staff's time . . .

You will NEVER see those hidden costs in any accounting of "The cost of Obamacare." Never.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2017 04:47 PM (s5o+q)

314 If you confiscated all profits and gave them back, it would drop people's bills by like 5%.

So what you're saying is that making insurance companies non profit would be a tangible, real reduction in costs. That's my point.

That's the kind of stuff they need to look at doing, reducing costs, rather than increasing government control.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 04:48 PM (39g3+)

315 My dentist is my friend and he does trades. He'll do a crown for someone that doesn't have a lot of money, they pay his cost for the supplies and the patient will give him golf lessons for example.

I also used to work for a cardiologist, he's very kind. He waives his fee on a case by case basis and also would get the drug rep to supply the patient with their meds that they could not afford.
Posted by: CaliGirl

dentist friend of ours is always trying to barter with patients for services he needs. has a deal with a mechanic where he gets labor for free parts at cost while giving the mechanic and his family free dental.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:48 PM (cPsPa)

316 300 My Blue Cross and Blue Shield is a non-profit, it's run like a credit union where it's member owned.

The idea that insurance companies making big profits is why health care is so expensive is a liberal fantasy.

If you confiscated all profits and gave them back, it would drop people's bills by like 5%.

I'm no fan of insurance companies, but their profits are not the problem.
Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:45 PM (o3uvv)

====================

I remember that during the ACA debates.

You want to tax huge profit centers? Go after big law firms instead.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 06, 2017 04:49 PM (mC1ZI)

317 I believe that we will end up with a three-tiered system, just as they have in Argentina now.

The lowest tier is the government run, single payer healthcare. This covers all citizens for everything.

The better care is provided by associations and other groups. Accountants may have their own clinics covered by dues they pay to their association. Restaurant employees may have a different group of clinics they pay to belong to.

Of course, the best care is provided by a group of high-end healthcare facilities that deal with people on a cash basis or those who pay a membership fee.

Things always sort themselves out along money lines sooner or later.

Posted by: jwest at April 06, 2017 04:49 PM (Zs4uk)

318 That's the kind of stuff they need to look at doing, reducing costs, rather than increasing government control.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 04:48 PM (39g3+)

------

Who the hell do you think is going to enforce non-profiteering??

Posted by: fixerupper at April 06, 2017 04:50 PM (8XRCm)

319 The way they could've brought down premiums
immediately was trust Trump/Dr. Price were going to change the rules
about what is a valid plan under the ACA. They could've sliced off the
'required benefits' to make it cheaper that way.

>>I guarantee you, part of what the Freedom Caucus wanted was a
pat on the back from voters for 'lowering the costs of insurance' by
adding this to the bill.

>>When they could've trusted Trump was going to do step 2 the
minute the mandate was removed. But of COURSE they want to be able to
say to their voters, "I personally lowered the cost of health
insurance."

>>It's all about ego people.

Bingo. It was Sebelius who put most of these restrictions in after
the framework was passed. Price has the ability to take them out.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 06, 2017 04:47 PM (/tuJf)

And the next Secretary of HHS has the ability to put them right back in unless Congress repeals Obamacare in full.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:50 PM (FTXAT)

320 Insurance companies make their money from investing the premiums. They pay more in claims than they collect in premiums in many instances.

Posted by: Jack Sock at April 06, 2017 04:50 PM (wH8rX)

321 300 My Blue Cross and Blue Shield is a non-profit, it's run like a credit union where it's member owned.

The idea that insurance companies making big profits is why health care is so expensive is a liberal fantasy.

If you confiscated all profits and gave them back, it would drop people's bills by like 5%.

I'm no fan of insurance companies, but their profits are not the problem.
Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:45 PM (o3uvv)

This, regulations and defensive medicine play a part as well.
I've needed a MRI, I have insurance so I go to the radiology place they refer me to. I don't know how much it costs. If I was paying out of pocket I would call every radiology place within 100 miles to find the best deal. I would also negotiate with the radiologist that reads the film.

Third party payer problem.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 04:50 PM (Yeic3)

322 Aus mit das Struempfe.

Posted by: Soona at April 06, 2017 04:50 PM (Fmupd)

323 This is interesting because as an insured, you're not just having your loss made whole (i.e., the depreciated value of the car). You're getting a bonus -- a prize -- for being in an accident. You get more than you actually lost. That means it's not insurance, it's a lottery.

If a homeowners insurer sells policies by promising to pay the homeowner ONE MILLION DOLLARS if his home happens to be destroyed by a highly-unlikely lightning strike, regardless of the size of the actual loss, can it get away with it? Don't think so. But the auto insurers are doing the same thing.
Posted by: Cicero

well, of course you know I am kidding about the two new cars thing, but they do say something like a cara a year newer with 5000 fewer miles. but yeah, this is only attractive to someone who does not understand insurance.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:50 PM (cPsPa)

324 "Health insurance should be non profit, to begin with."

Having seen both "nonprofit" hospitals and "nonprofit" insurance firms operate, I note there can be a staggering amount of greed and trouser lining going on underneath the innocuous rubric of "nonprofit".

As for myself, I am fine with a business which provides me with a needed service earning a profit. I just don't want to be grossly overcharged. What reduces the chances of me being thus overcharged is bona fide market competition for my custom.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 06, 2017 04:51 PM (noWW6)

325 Those Liberty Mutual commercials are stupid because they define perfect driving record as someone who had a wreck 5 minutes ago and a brand new car as one with 12 k miles and a bunch of whiskey dents.

Posted by: Lord Sir x at April 06, 2017 04:51 PM (nFwvY)

326 You want to tax huge profit centers? Go after big law firms instead.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at April 06, 2017 04:49 PM (mC1ZI)

Let me tell you about mesothelioma . . . or vaginal mesh . . . or . . .

Posted by: Ambulance-chaser law firms at April 06, 2017 04:52 PM (s5o+q)

327 So what you're saying is that making insurance companies non profit would be a tangible, real reduction in costs. That's my point.

That's the kind of stuff they need to look at doing, reducing costs, rather than increasing government control.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor
__________

Problem is, when you take the incentive of profit and efficiency away, things can spiral out of control very quickly. That is the inherent problem when you work outside the free market

5% is a rounding error for most people.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:52 PM (o3uvv)

328 One of my doctors moved down from NYC. He said it was almost impossible to practice medicine in NYC.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party

do not know about the doctor side but the care is great if you find a good doctor and have money.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:52 PM (cPsPa)

329 My Blue Cross and Blue Shield is a non-profit, it's run like a credit union where it's member owned.

The idea that insurance companies making big profits is why health care is so expensive is a liberal fantasy.

If you confiscated all profits and gave them back, it would drop people's bills by like 5%.

I'm no fan of insurance companies, but their profits are not the problem.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:45 PM (o3uvv)

I agree... their presence in the market as a third party payer, however, distorts prices even if they make no profits.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:52 PM (FTXAT)

330 The idea that insurance companies making big profits is why health care is so expensive is a liberal fantasy.
Posted by: Maritime

Diseased soil yields only poisonous plants.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 06, 2017 04:53 PM (GgzGa)

331 I would worry that non-profit would stifle innovation, just as single-payer rationing does.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 06, 2017 04:53 PM (NOIQH)

332 Health insurance should be non profit, to begin with. No more drive to
earn money and be accountable to a board of stock holders. No more
pressure to make more money every year.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 04:36 PM (39g3+)

Is that sarcasm CT?

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:54 PM (FTXAT)

333 dentist friend of ours is always trying to barter with patients for services he needs. has a deal with a mechanic where he gets labor for free parts at cost while giving the mechanic and his family free dental.
Posted by: yankeefifth at April 06, 2017 04:48 PM (cPsPa)

No physician I've heard of in my area would turn away someone truly in need because of an inability to pay.

The best cardiologist in my area would not accept Medicare and Medi-Cal. The reimbursement rates were too low.
I'm not sure if you're still allowed to do this. He was my Dad's Dr. we paid cash, he gave us a big discount. He didn't have to bill insurance company either so I'm sure it was a win win situation.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 04:55 PM (Yeic3)

334 Is that sarcasm CT?

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:54 PM (FTXAT)

------

I dont think so.

The R stands for Red.

Posted by: fixerupper at April 06, 2017 04:55 PM (8XRCm)

335 Diseased soil yields only poisonous plants.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 06, 2017 04:53 PM (GgzGa)

"If it stinks, there's something behind it."

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2017 04:55 PM (s5o+q)

336 ingo. It was Sebelius who put most of these restrictions in after
the framework was passed. Price has the ability to take them out.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 06, 2017 04:47 PM (/tuJf)

And the next Secretary of HHS has the ability to put them right back in unless Congress repeals Obamacare in full.
Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:50 PM (FTXAT)

---------------

I think the only way we're going to get rid of Ocare is get a couple more Constitutionalists on the SCOTUS and bring this to the courts again.

Posted by: Soona at April 06, 2017 04:57 PM (Fmupd)

337 I believe that we will end up with a three-tiered system, just as they have in Argentina now.

The lowest tier is the government run, single payer healthcare. This covers all citizens for everything.

The better care is provided by associations and other groups. Accountants may have their own clinics covered by dues they pay to their association. Restaurant employees may have a different group of clinics they pay to belong to.

Of course, the best care is provided by a group of high-end healthcare facilities that deal with people on a cash basis or those who pay a membership fee.

Things always sort themselves out along money lines sooner or later.

Posted by: jwest

That makes perfect sense. However, the first group is going to place significant financial demands on the government which the second and third group will be forced to support. So you're going to pay higher taxes.

Which I'm pretty sure you support.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at April 06, 2017 04:57 PM (HTdUD)

338 I do though like the idea of outlawing insurance companies altogether. Everything being cash and carry would drop prices like you've never seen.

But that is an alternate universe that's not going to happen.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:58 PM (o3uvv)

339
It's a Gordian knot.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at April 06, 2017 04:47 PM (VdICR)

And the only one who has thus far thought to pull out a sword is Mo Brooks. Everyone else is debating what algorithms would undo select parts of the knot.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:59 PM (FTXAT)

340 It's not just the Premiums. It's the deductibles.

Sounds like ObamaCare Lite II, to me.

When can we get something market-oriented, without mandated coverages, available across state lines, that lets me have actual health CARE, not just health INSURANCE?

Because that would be nice.

Posted by: OCBill at April 06, 2017 05:00 PM (df+Zi)

341 >>>Diseased soil yields only poisonous plants.

Or throat-chewing toddlers...

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at April 06, 2017 05:00 PM (htEvZ)

342 I do though like the idea of outlawing insurance
companies altogether. Everything being cash and carry would drop prices
like you've never seen.

But that is an alternate universe that's not going to happen.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:58 PM (o3uvv)

It is already happening and working quite well. There are even cash only surgical practices and I have 5 cash only medical systems in my area that I can choose from.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 05:00 PM (FTXAT)

343 >>>Until you get that stupid form from the insurance company showing you
what they did and did not pay and the discount they made the doc take,
you have no idea what the doc is charging you anyway.

Or how much you have to pay them.
.
.
.If anyone thinks that Congress is going to do anything to make the Health Insurance Industry go away, I want some of what you are smoking.

They are a multi BILLION $$$$ Industry that employs over 1,000,000 people. They are not going away.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at April 06, 2017 05:01 PM (le7jz)

344 My renter watched to many of those idiotic mesothelioma lawyer commercials, hey he said, I worked in ship building back in the day. When I told him that you have to be dying from that particular cancer to get a payout he thought that was unfair.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 06, 2017 05:02 PM (6Ll1u)

345
It is already happening and working quite well. There are even cash only surgical practices and I have 5 cash only medical systems in my area that I can choose from.
Posted by: redbanzai
_____

"Already happening" meaning under 1% of people doing it.

Still, with the individual mandate that has not been repealed, how do you "Go Galt" and not buy health insurance?

I've heard Trump issued EOs, but I was not aware you could EO the individual mandate out of existence

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 05:03 PM (o3uvv)

346 338 I do though like the idea of outlawing insurance companies altogether. Everything being cash and carry would drop prices like you've never seen.

But that is an alternate universe that's not going to happen.
Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:58 PM (o3uvv)

We own a business and I think our premiums for the Cadillac policy are 1,500 a month. My husband and I could save that money every month and self insure.

We do that now with our workman's comp insurance. It's called a captive. If someone hurts their arm and needs surgery, we pay for it out of pocket. It works more like a catastrophic policy and it's much cheaper. (I may be explaining it incorrectly).

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 05:03 PM (Yeic3)

347 344 My renter watched to many of those idiotic mesothelioma lawyer commercials, hey he said, I worked in ship building back in the day. When I told him that you have to be dying from that particular cancer to get a payout he thought that was unfair.
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 06, 2017 05:02 PM (6Ll1u)

The thing is you don't have to be dying or even have any symptoms to get a settlement. Many jurisdictions require that you just have medical evidence of markers that indicate asbestos exposure.

Posted by: Jack Sock at April 06, 2017 05:05 PM (wH8rX)

348 How do you legally not pay for health insurance?

I'm honestly asking, I didn't think being a member of a concierge service was a loophole

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:42 PM (o3uvv)

What I am planning to do is not legal... I would totally be breaking the law that says I have to have mandated coverages.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 05:06 PM (FTXAT)

349 It's the profit motive that drives down prices.

No, the profit motive drives down expense to the insurance companies. Prices are set by the companies trying to make money.

And if you think 5% is a rounding error t most people, you must live in a gated community and worry about what model of Maybach you're going to buy each year.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 05:07 PM (39g3+)

350 I've heard Trump issued EOs, but I was not aware you could EO the individual mandate out of existence

Posted by: Maritime

The IRS is on record as saying they do not intend to enforce the individual mandate. So there's no penalty.

But that could change in four years with a different EO.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at April 06, 2017 05:07 PM (HTdUD)

351 How do you legally not pay for health insurance?

I'm honestly asking, I didn't think being a member of a concierge service was a loophole

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 04:42 PM (o3uvv)

What I am planning to do is not legal... I would totally be breaking the law that says I have to have mandated coverages.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 05:06 PM (FTXAT)

But those practices would not be thriving if a lot of other people were not doing the same.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 05:08 PM (FTXAT)

352 349 It's the profit motive that drives down prices.

No, the profit motive drives down expense to the insurance companies. Prices are set by the companies trying to make money.

And if you think 5% is a rounding error t most people, you must live in a gated community and worry about what model of Maybach you're going to buy each year.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at April 06, 2017 05:07 PM (39g3+)

The profit motive combined with competition drives down costs.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 05:09 PM (Yeic3)

353 Everyone should own their own personal physician. It's a human right!

Posted by: Chelsea at April 06, 2017 05:10 PM (oVJmc)

354 What I am planning to do is not legal... I would totally be breaking the law that says I have to have mandated coverages.
Posted by: redbanzai
_____

The fines are what would keep people from doing that in large numbers.

And despite Trump signing EOs, I dont think he can permanently get rid of the individual mandate without going through Congress

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 05:11 PM (o3uvv)

355 I now owe $6k for an emergency procedure. Thats my deductible. I also have Medicare A but not B (because of insurance through work). Im starting to think I might be better off with straight Medicare.

I have an HSA, but Im not going to put several thousand in it if I have to use it by years end. Any bill should address that. It would have been a huge help to have something to go towards this.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at April 06, 2017 05:12 PM (Lqy/e)

356 And despite Trump signing EOs, I dont think he can permanently get rid of the individual mandate without going through Congress

Posted by: Maritime

Probably. But for the next three years and nine months, his EO carries the force of law -- and the IRS is on board.

You're free. For now.

He signed that EO on DAY ONE.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at April 06, 2017 05:13 PM (HTdUD)

357 Heres another BS rule: if you dont see your doctor every three years, you lose them. They are mandating doctors visits with this. Why should I go in if I dont need to?

Posted by: Notsothoreau at April 06, 2017 05:14 PM (Lqy/e)

358 The profit motive combined with competition drives down costs.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 05:09 PM (Yeic3)

This:

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, brewer or baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard for their own interest --- some Scottish philosopher.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 05:14 PM (FTXAT)

359 "And the next Secretary of HHS has the ability to put them right back in unless Congress repeals Obamacare in full.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:50 PM (FTXAT)"You don't get it. Cut off the mandate, the number of people covered drops considerably. Only those who want to buy are buying through the exchanges. Those who need a subsidy, mostly. Then, you cut the number of services covered down to basic emergency care. Then, you probably don't need a subsidy anymore to pay for such a cheap plan, so no more subsidies.Then, what is the point of the ACA anyway? ACA can be repealed.This is how you step it down in a logical, non-harmful way. First you let people get rid of coverage they don't want, you reduce the benefits, you get rid of subsidy...then NOBODY will be hurt at all when you repeal.Meanwhile, since the mandate is gone, you can open up markets across state lines, allow people to have HSAs, all kinds of free market things. The marketplaces will die on their own.

Posted by: K-E at April 06, 2017 05:15 PM (ePvML)

360 But those practices would not be thriving if a lot of other people were not doing the same.
Posted by: redbanzai
________

But a lot of people are doing it because it's more of a first class experience. health insurance doesn't play a factor.

I know several people that do it, it's almost exclusively because you can immediately see a doctor if you need to at the drop of a hat, it's not a cost saver as you have a fixed monthly fee to be a part of it.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 05:16 PM (o3uvv)

361
Probably. But for the next three years and nine months, his EO carries the force of law -- and the IRS is on board.

You're free. For now.

He signed that EO on DAY ONE.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at April 06, 2017 05:13 PM (HTdUD)

His EO says the IRS won't collect (which, quite frankly, they really couldn't anyway). You still technically owe the penalty though and you will owe it when Trump is no longer in office.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 05:16 PM (FTXAT)

362 355 I now owe $6k for an emergency procedure. Thats my deductible. I also have Medicare A but not B (because of insurance through work). Im starting to think I might be better off with straight Medicare.

I have an HSA, but Im not going to put several thousand in it if I have to use it by years end. Any bill should address that. It would have been a huge help to have something to go towards this.
Posted by: Notsothoreau at April 06, 2017 05:12 PM (Lqy/e)

I would ask for a cash discount on the amount you owe. It's usually anywhere from 10-20 percent. All they can do is say no. If you owe a physician as well as a hospital ask everyone for a discount and payment plan.

I like HSA's, we don't use them at our business because they are difficult to administer.

Sorry :-(

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 05:18 PM (Yeic3)

363 His EO says the IRS won't collect (which, quite frankly, they really couldn't anyway). You still technically owe the penalty though and you will owe it when Trump is no longer in office.
Posted by: redbanzai
________

So that sort of negates what you said earlier about "dropping" health insurance being an option for a lot of people, unless you want to get into a legal battle with the IRS down the road.

Also, I don't think its legal for a President to change tax law through EOs, if it was challenged in court I think he'd lose.

It would be no different than if he tried to cut taxes with an EO isstead of going through Congress

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 05:21 PM (o3uvv)

364 You still technically owe the penalty though and you will owe it when Trump is no longer in office.

Posted by: redbanzai

There's a line on the tax return which the IRS would not previously process unless you filled it out. You leave it empty. The IRS, subsequent to the Trump EO, says it will now process the return.

Fast forward four years TIMES millions of returns.

You really think they're going to engage in that level of work? Enrage that many millions of Americans?

Maybe you do, but I don't see it. Stick that monthly premium in the bank. Buy a telecom stock that pays four percent. Reinvest the dividends.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at April 06, 2017 05:23 PM (HTdUD)

365 358 The profit motive combined with competition drives down costs.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 05:09 PM (Yeic3)

This:

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, brewer or baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard for their own interest --- some Scottish philosopher.
Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 05:14 PM (FTXAT)

Also, service improves as well.

Personal experience with cash is the plastic surgeon and lasik eye procedures. They have improved service at the same time the procedures have decreased in price.
Competition works, no third party payer.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 05:23 PM (Yeic3)

366 You don't get it. Cut off the mandate, the number of
people covered drops considerably. Only those who want to buy are
buying through the exchanges. Those who need a subsidy, mostly. Then,
you cut the number of services covered down to basic emergency care.
Then, you probably don't need a subsidy anymore to pay for such a cheap
plan, so no more subsidies.Then, what is the point of the ACA anyway?
ACA can be repealed.This is how you step it down in a logical,
non-harmful way. First you let people get rid of coverage they don't
want, you reduce the benefits, you get rid of subsidy...then NOBODY will
be hurt at all when you repeal.Meanwhile, since the mandate is gone,
you can open up markets across state lines, allow people to have HSAs,
all kinds of free market things. The marketplaces will die on their own.

Posted by: K-E at April 06, 2017 05:15 PM (ePvML)

You don't see to get that Ryan's bill did not repeal the mandates (on individuals, businesses or insurance companies). And your underpants gnome logic does not lead to profits OR the repeal of the ACA (and the Healthcare and Education Reconciliation act that also needs to be repealed).

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 05:23 PM (FTXAT)

367 You stiill have the problem of irrational billing.

Posted by: Sammy Finkelman at April 06, 2017 05:25 PM (Xn1Yv)

368 There's a line on the tax return which the IRS would not previously process unless you filled it out. You leave it empty. The IRS, subsequent to the Trump EO, says it will now process the return.

Fast forward four years TIMES millions of returns.

You really think they're going to engage in that level of work? Enrage that many millions of Americans?

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum
_____

I think you could say that about anytime you "cheat" on your taxes, most won't get caught, some will be made examples of.

I just don't think this possible loophole is a long term strategy for dealing with ObamaCare.

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 05:26 PM (o3uvv)

369
I think you could say that about anytime you "cheat" on your taxes, most won't get caught, some will be made examples of.

The vocal ones.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at April 06, 2017 05:27 PM (QQ+il)

370 Also, service improves as well.

Personal experience with cash is the plastic surgeon and lasik eye
procedures. They have improved service at the same time the procedures
have decreased in price.

Competition works, no third party payer.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 05:23 PM (Yeic3)

I also have experience with cash payments in those two areas. My daughter got a large birthmark removed and I had inter-corneal lens replacement surgery (the lasik surgeon laughed me out of his office because my eyesight was WAY too bad:-P).

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 05:28 PM (FTXAT)

371 So that sort of negates what you said earlier about
"dropping" health insurance being an option for a lot of people, unless
you want to get into a legal battle with the IRS down the road.

Also, I don't think its legal for a President to change tax law through EOs, if it was challenged in court I think he'd lose.

It would be no different than if he tried to cut taxes with an EO isstead of going through Congress

Posted by: Maritime at April 06, 2017 05:21 PM (o3uvv)

Under the ACA I may owe the IRS penalties but they really have no way to collect them unless I overpay and they owe me a refund. Other than that they are legally barred from levying either your wages or your property. So yes I am willingly becoming a scofflaw but no the IRS really can't come after me for it.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 05:31 PM (FTXAT)

372 I think you could say that about anytime you "cheat" on your taxes, most won't get caught, some will be made examples of.

I just don't think this possible loophole is a long term strategy for dealing with ObamaCare.

Posted by: Maritime

Cheat? Or even 'cheat'? This is an executive order of the President of the United States that the Internal Revenue Service is complying with.

ObamaCare is months from crashing and burning.

I'd like to tell you to grow a set, but I'm not going to.

Posted by: Johnny Castle at April 06, 2017 05:32 PM (HTdUD)

373 I also have experience with cash payments in those two areas. My daughter got a large birthmark removed and I had inter-corneal lens replacement surgery (the lasik surgeon laughed me out of his office because my eyesight was WAY too bad:-P).
Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 05:28 PM (FTXAT)

My plastic surgeon is nice, he stitched my husband's hand on the weekend so we didn't have to go to the ER on a Saturday night. We paid cash and he did a much better job(no scar) and no waiting. I have his cell, we can text him. He was still much cheaper than the ER.

Posted by: CaliGirl at April 06, 2017 05:35 PM (Yeic3)

374 Dirty Dancing sock off.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at April 06, 2017 05:35 PM (HTdUD)

375 >> There's a line on the tax return which the IRS would not previously process unless you filled it out. You leave it empty. The IRS, subsequent to the Trump EO, says it will now process the return.

That's inccorrect. The IRS would process it. But the Obama Adminsutration changed the rule so that when he was no longer in office, for tax returns for 2016 starting in 2017, it would begin rejecting them

Tom Price or wheover, went back or continued the old system used when Obama was president.

Posted by: Sammy Finkelman at April 06, 2017 05:49 PM (Xn1Yv)

376 >> ... I would totally be breaking the law that says I have to have mandated coverages.

The Chief Justice of the United Stataesw Suprem Court said that's not true. Nobody is breaking any law by not having health insurance - they are only (maybe) required to pay a tax which Congress has designed to be impossible to collect, and not like other taxes.

Posted by: Sammy Finkelman at April 06, 2017 05:53 PM (Xn1Yv)

377 24 No deal. A massive recession is required in health care to bring costs and prices in line with reality.

If expenditures for health care have doubled since O'Care was enacted, then they have to halve before any negotiations can resume.

Let it burn.
Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at April 06, 2017 03:50 PM (HTdUD)

Sorry, but No. Not in the long run.

In the short run, yes, we can tell the Demunists we told them so, and hopefully the electorate learns.

But why was Trump elected?

To make America great again.

Which means making health insurance, and health care in general, affordable again.

Going back to the system of 3rd party insurer moral hazard will not do that in itself.

And sooner or later, the electorate will succumb to the siren song of Single Payer Socialism in despair.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at April 06, 2017 06:30 PM (ujg0T)

378 65 Puzzles the hell out of me why any Republican would be all in for forcing consumers to purchase any particular coverages... much less the over the top ones written by Sebelius.
Posted by: redbanzai at April 06, 2017 04:01 PM (FTXAT)

Actually, it DOES make a certain dreadful sense. Young and able bodied paying premiums now to cover old and disabled people, or at least so they do not pay so much. See Social Security and Medicare.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at April 06, 2017 06:34 PM (ujg0T)

379 "Meadows is right about these problems; the combination of mandates on insurers and individuals partnered with community rating restrictions has so greatly distorted proper risk assessment that prices skyrocketed for everyone."

This is the best, most logical explanation for why the freedom caucus fought Ryancare. Ryancare simply would not have worked. So if these changes are made and the RINOS don't like it, THEY will be exposed as the true obstructionists. Perhaps then, Ryan and Scalise can point their accusatory rhetoric on them...."don't ruin the good for the perfect" "stop moving the goalpost" Rarr!

Posted by: HarriedandHopeless at April 07, 2017 07:05 AM (Y1Oht)

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