TrumpRyanCare Vote: Paul Ryan Says We Don't Have the Numbers

House Speaker Paul Ryan is at the White House to brief President Donald Trump on the GOP health care bill, and it is not to deliver good news, a Republican source tells CNN.
Efforts on Capitol Hill to sway members are ongoing, but things aren't heading in the right direction.
"Not good. Not good at all," the source said.
Ryan is showing Trump the numbers, and asking what he wants the speaker to do because the votes aren't there, a GOP source said.

An idea that floats around a lot is the idea of political momentum, and that it's important for Trump to "win" on this to have "momentum" for his next agenda item. Otherwise, the king is wounded, and weakened. But if he wins, he has the high ground and the wind at his back and whatever martial metaphor you like.

I don't think I buy that. A presidential term is like a very long baseball season. You win some, you lose some, you have streaks going both ways. There is no such thing as a perfect season. You just try to get enough wins to make the playoffs.

I especially don't buy it now, given that the "newscycle" is now about six minutes long.

This was done too quickly with too little genuine persuasion or argumentation. I think a good part of populism is that people want to be consulted on these big moves, and do not just want our cadre of leaders telling us what they have decided on our behalf.

I want more time to debate. Maybe this actually is a damn fine bill. Might well be. But I really would like more information and more debate.

Remember the NAFTA debate? We had months of national debate on that. There was a famous televised debate on CNN (I think) between Ross Perot, taking the anti-NAFTA position, and Al Gore, taking the pro-NAFTA position. I had reservations, but I thought Gore won (certainly the pro-Clinton media thought he'd won).

I think maybe Gore won, but Perot's position was still right.

But that's besides the point I'm making. The point is that the public felt that it had had the major issue aired. The public felt as if it had been "checked in" with, at least.

Our current culture is of #HotTakes and pushing things quickly to make them #Viral, before anyone has a chance to think about them much.

Hasty thinking is bad thinking, or, usually, non-thinking.

While I'm open to the possibility that this bill is as good as we can get (keeping in mind the four RINO squishes in the Senate JackStraw always mentions), I'd sure appreciate more time to get this right.

Like Tom Cotton said: We don't need to get it fast, we need to get it right.

And if it's necessary to make some compromises we all don't necessarily like, we need a little time to get comfortable with those.

I like test-driving a car two or three times before I buy it. It's a psychologically important thing to feel like you've made the best decision possible under the circumstances, rather than having doubts linger with you for years as you wonder, "Did I really make the right major consumer purchase that I'm still paying for each and every month...?"

There's no need for all this stage-managing and conflict avoidance and top-down black box policy making. Conflict and argument are good. Broken bones heal stronger. Let's not be afraid to get into a rumble about something pretty important.

This isn't a Viking Saga. There are no epic heroes, there are no Valkyries sweeping the dead up to Valhalla. This isn't high drama.

This is the political process. Let's just work through the once-normal political process of dueling op-eds, televised debates, and exchanges of white papers.

Posted by: Ace at 01:07 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 1st

Posted by: Rick in SK at March 24, 2017 01:08 PM (FZYNt)

2 Good.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 24, 2017 01:09 PM (7CcnX)

3 good time to proceed with tax cuts

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 01:10 PM (+JCjY)

4 I don't know. Trump supposedly said vote.. If it fails he is moving on to tax cuts...

Posted by: Jan Brady at March 24, 2017 01:10 PM (O2RFr)

5 I'll eat them later.

Posted by: alligator at March 24, 2017 01:10 PM (O4JGz)

6 mebbe in before 10

Posted by: willow at March 24, 2017 01:10 PM (R7cwD)

7 lucky 7

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 01:11 PM (+JCjY)

8 Oh, and Ryan is an ass...

Posted by: Jan Brady at March 24, 2017 01:11 PM (O2RFr)

9 Back to the drawing board with this one. Sit the principals down and do some face-to-face horse trading.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 24, 2017 01:11 PM (RD7QR)

10 The only way to win is not play the game.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 24, 2017 01:11 PM (7CcnX)

11 An idea that floats around a lot is the idea of political momentum, and that it's important for Trump to "win" on this to have "momentum" for his next agenda item.

-
Let them weasel now so they can weasel later.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 24, 2017 01:11 PM (Nwg0u)

12 I'll wait to hear what Trent Lott and Haley Barbour have to say before I form an opinion.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 24, 2017 01:11 PM (ymRuQ)

13 Ryan is showing Trump the numbers, and asking what he wants the speaker to do because the votes aren't there, a GOP source said.

Trump should tell Ryan he needs to give the Speaker position to someone who can lead.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at March 24, 2017 01:11 PM (i0ykY)

14 12 I'll wait to hear what Trent Lott and Haley Barbour have to say before I form an opinion.

I'm waiting for Jeb!

Please clap

Posted by: Jan Brady at March 24, 2017 01:12 PM (O2RFr)

15 Watching Spicer's presser.

FBN has a headline saying: "WH: House vote scheduled for 3:30 pm ET.

Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2017 01:12 PM (Enq6K)

16 If it goes down, it won't be done this year.

Forget Trump, it will be interesting to see what happens to the various players in the House.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 01:12 PM (/tuJf)

17 Get the government out of the health care racket.
Period, end of argument.

Posted by: navybrat at March 24, 2017 01:13 PM (rnOcr)

18 I would prefer insurance companies, the public be given time to walk this back in perhaps 2 years or so? start stripping where govt has involvement in Our health care buying.
Wouldn't a full repeal today leave a lot of people in this systems ass hanging out ?

Posted by: willow at March 24, 2017 01:13 PM (R7cwD)

19 Ryan is showing Trump the numbers, and asking what he wants the speaker to do because the votes aren't there, a GOP source said.

Trump could also say, go ahead and vote. Get it on the record that the house republicans couldn't get this passed. Get a record of who voted for and against.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 24, 2017 01:13 PM (7CcnX)

20 I think Trump actually learns from his mistakes.He is new at this game after all.

Posted by: steevy at March 24, 2017 01:14 PM (r/0kC)

21 Politicians always feel the need to "do something" as though "doing something" were synonymous with "doing good things" and "preventing bad things from being done."

The truth is that at best, when politicians "do something" about half of the time all they're doing is creating more issues down the road, and most of the times when they're actually doing something good, it's just undoing something bad that they already did a while ago.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at March 24, 2017 01:14 PM (KUaJL)

22 The Republicans never planned to be back in charge so they never gamed this out.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 01:14 PM (LTHVh)

23 15 Watching Spicer's presser.

FBN has a headline saying: "WH: House vote scheduled for 3:30 pm ET.
Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2017 01:12 PM (Enq6K)

Suddenly they have the votes?

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 24, 2017 01:14 PM (RD7QR)

24 With all due respect and affection for those whose priority is tax cuts - those who have been financially gutted and/or gone without health insurance for the first time in their lives have this weird, quirky interest in removing this recent, ruinous federal impact on their lives (O-care).

Tax cuts? Yep, urgent. I mean, politically, too. I well recall those stormy town halls, and the wave elections of 2010 and 2014, and the rebellion of 2016, and how it was all about ...... tax cuts.

Oh, wait.

But there's no need for "either/or". Both can/should happen. Yet the notion that "oh shoot, fixing this is too hard, let's just skip it and go on to tax reform" I find mind-boggling, from every angle.

Posted by: rhomboid at March 24, 2017 01:15 PM (QDnY+)

25 So Trump has four years to build Executive Order sandcastles that the next tide will take out. Great. Maybe we should go to a one-month-in-session-per-year Congress, and cut their pay 90%, because what, really, is it that they do around there? Not much as far as I can see.

Posted by: CORRUPT CORRUPT CORRUPT at March 24, 2017 01:15 PM (qYCgM)

26 or will they just end this with single payer of some sort, now that they've roped so many more millions in.

Posted by: willow at March 24, 2017 01:15 PM (R7cwD)

27 I'd like to think I'm a smart guy, and I do try to keep up, as much as I can, but I can honestly say I have no clue what this bill is, or what it supposedly does and doesn't do, so I have no idea what to think of it.

None.

And people shouting at me YOU MUST SUPPORT/KILL THIS BILL BECAUSE THE FATE OF THE NATION DEPENDS ON IT doesn't help.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 24, 2017 01:15 PM (TOk1P)

28 Suddenly they have the votes?

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 24, 2017 01:14 PM (RD7QR)

Either that or FBN is behind the news curve.

Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2017 01:15 PM (Enq6K)

29 or will they just end this with single payer of some sort, now that they've roped so many more millions in.
Posted by: willow at March 24, 2017 01:15 PM (R7cwD)
----------

This is the Democrats' great hope.

Posted by: bluebell at March 24, 2017 01:15 PM (sBOL1)

30 My theory is that Trump had been setting Ryan (and the establishment) up for a fall here in an attempt to knock him off the speaker position so he can get someone in there that can actually pass real reform.

I'll know this to be true if Trump comes out after the bill fails and with a sad face says (or tweets) he worked very hard with the establishment to get an acceptable bill passed but unfortunately Ryan just couldn't deliver, so maybe it's time for new leadership...

Posted by: Captain FartsAStorm at March 24, 2017 01:16 PM (Ze4Jj)

31 19>> That's exactly what he should say. Put that turd bill on the table for everyone to see what's in it, and let those bastards line up and be on record.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at March 24, 2017 01:16 PM (i0ykY)

32 I'd rather they pass nothing rather than some half-assed tweaking of Obamacare, just so they can claim they passed something.

Posted by: rickl at March 24, 2017 01:16 PM (zoehZ)

33 Just watched Gohmert interview. He is still no. Don't agree with him very often, but he is plain-speaking and as honest as a pol can ever possibly be. Let's see, Freedom Caucus, trying hard to help PDT, but can't. Rand Paul, Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, Tom Cotton, et al. -- no way.

I trust the FC and the senators who take unpopular positions before I would trust Ryan and the GOPe.

Posted by: mustbequantum at March 24, 2017 01:16 PM (MIKMs)

34 Tax cuts are dead. The same GOP fault lines will prevent an agreement.

Posted by: CORRUPT CORRUPT CORRUPT at March 24, 2017 01:16 PM (qYCgM)

35 Oh, and Ryan is an ass...

Posted by: Jan Brady at March 24, 2017 01:11 PM

Yeah...ignore that guy. You can trust me. I'm not like the others.

Posted by: George Glass at March 24, 2017 01:16 PM (p+Wdc)

36 Visual metaphor of the Rethugs in congress.

http://i.___ur.com/AcYu3fp.gif

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 24, 2017 01:17 PM (Nwg0u)

37 I agree with you, Ace. A no-vote or a non-vote doesn't mean this is dead. Maybe Ocare does have to completely collapse. Then they'll have no choice but to finally kill it. And Ocare WILL collapse. Probably sooner than some of us think.

Then we can have our debate.

Posted by: Soona at March 24, 2017 01:17 PM (Fmupd)

38 A bad bill is worse than no bill, we can find thousands of examples in our own history.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 24, 2017 01:17 PM (7ZVPa)

39 6 times the R's sent Zero a bill to repeal the ACA. They would not send 45 one. Trust not there would ever be phase 2 or 3. This was never designed to do anything but stir things up and make Trump look bad. There was never an attempt to get D buy-in, which was what was wrong with the ACA too.

R's/ GOPe are the problem now... not Reid/Pelosi.

Ryan was a problem out of the gate. Where's our Newt for this Congress?

Posted by: torabora at March 24, 2017 01:17 PM (O4JGz)

40 I hope Trump never fears the media. They've turned the dial up to 11 on him since before was elected, and of course he still got elected. WE REALIZE THE PRESS ARE SCUM, WE'VE IGNORED THEM SINCE BEFORE YOU WERE ELECTED, SO DO WHAT YOU WERE CHOSEN TO DO.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at March 24, 2017 01:17 PM (vRcUp)

41 Trump still likely wants a vote. So he can say "I tried right off the bat."

We have grown way too scared of voting down legislation. What's the real harm? Political image? Trump should put it to a vote, move on the other stuff, and come back to it in a year or so.

Posted by: Nick in South Bend at March 24, 2017 01:17 PM (H43MS)

42 rhomboid it's not only the health care that became involved we also had business owners cutting care out and also cutting hours leaving many underemployed so they didn't have to comply with the new best system

bah

Posted by: willow at March 24, 2017 01:17 PM (R7cwD)

43 1. Do we have an extradition treaty with Tahiti?

2. New guess: Trump called for the vote to pressure Reps to either vote for it or show their colors to the base. Since the recalcitrant ones don't want that, the vote will be called off with the excuse of "more work" to make it better. Which could work out. Have the Reps ever answered why the other repeal bills already passed won't work now?

3. Trump moves on to tax cuts.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 01:17 PM (3myMJ)

44 10 The only way to win is not play the game.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 24, 2017 01:11 PM (7CcnX)

Trump turns the tables instead. So far, it is working.

20 I think Trump actually learns from his mistakes.He is new at this game after all.
Posted by: steevy at March 24, 2017 01:14 PM (r/0kC)

And Trump understands step-by-step I think.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 01:17 PM (ujg0T)

45 So Trump has four years to build Executive Order sandcastles that the next tide will take out. Great. Maybe we should go to a one-month-in-session-per-year Congress, and cut their pay 90%, because what, really, is it that they do around there? Not much as far as I can see.
Posted by: CORRUPT CORRUPT CORRUPT

Texas. 3 months every other year.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 24, 2017 01:18 PM (eauMe)

46 ObamaCare is an Alien face hugger on the face of America. It may take time to get rid of.

Trump says you need to be willing to walk away to get a good deal. So this is just another NYC real estate closing.

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 24, 2017 01:18 PM (SIY7D)

47 The problem is that there is no health care policy that will be popular. They will all create enough losers to sink them. Health care will be just like social security and medicare. Nothing will be done until we have reached the crisis moment of system collapse and we have a gun at our heads.

Posted by: Mark1971 at March 24, 2017 01:18 PM (xPl2J)

48 Has anyone heard if Sec'y of HHS Price has started rolling back any of the "Secretary Shall" provisions of PPACA or if he is waiting on the new framework from Congress?

Posted by: Muldoon at March 24, 2017 01:18 PM (wPiJc)

49 Visual metaphor of the Rethugs in congress.

http://i.___ur.com/AcYu3fp.gif

-
Better link:

http://tinyurl.com/n5ew7q4

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 24, 2017 01:18 PM (Nwg0u)

50 rump called for the vote to pressure Reps to either vote for it or show their colors to the base.

Don't you have that reversed?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 01:18 PM (LTHVh)

51 Each side of the GOP is calling the other side "cowards." Coward if you support it, coward if you don't support it.

Posted by: CORRUPT CORRUPT CORRUPT at March 24, 2017 01:18 PM (qYCgM)

52 The Republicans never planned to be back in charge so they never gamed this out.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 01:14 PM (LTHVh)

Why, it's almost like having a preening half-wit as Speaker of the House is bad, when you have actual, you know, power.

Almost.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 24, 2017 01:18 PM (TOk1P)

53 I think this is a big setback and I'm thinking ObamaCare is here to stay.

Oh well, maybe Trump can cut my taxes and it will mean more money in my pocket. I'll need it for my premiums.

Republicans had nearly 8 years to figure this out, I guess they thought they were never going to win again.

Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (mKRm7)

54 Unless the base is the CoC, which it often appears to be.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (LTHVh)

55 Spicer confirms 3:30 vote.
Egg meet face.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (ymRuQ)

56 bluebell I know, and that's why I wonder what can be political suicide for us now.
i',m sure all govt thought they had a permanent ticket to all these funds and that's why we saw little done throughtout the Obama years.

Posted by: willow at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (R7cwD)

57 This will choke the spying story out of existence.

Posted by: Javems at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (yOqwj)

58 46 ObamaCare is an Alien face hugger on the face of America. It may take time to get rid of.

Trump says you need to be willing to walk away to get a good deal. So this is just another NYC real estate closing.
Posted by: Ignoramus at March 24, 2017 01:18 PM (SIY7D)

If a creature with Obama's face on it bursts out of my chest I'm going to be pretty upset.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (RD7QR)

59 Ryan needs to go down.
He can't deliver.

Posted by: @votermom @vm at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (Om16U)

60 Posted by: torabora at March 24, 2017 01:17 PM (O4JGz)
---
You mean the Guy Who Over & had alwways Greased his squeekhole for Clinton ? That Newt ?

Posted by: EVLINC! at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (y3aQB)

61
The bill I would like to see is kill obamcare in its entirety with the provision that all health insurance policies are grandfathered if the consumer wishes until Dec 31, 2018. And then remove any federal restrictions on state lines.

That gives them a year and a half to solve the 2 items (pre-existing and 26 year olds) that people seem to like. In the meantime we can have new market rate policies.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (ODxAs)

62 >>My theory is that Trump had been setting Ryan (and the establishment) up for a fall here in an attempt to knock him off the speaker position so he can get someone in there that can actually pass real reform.

The problem with this theory is that Trump was elected largely because he claimed to be the greatest deal maker on the planet who could bring the warring tribes together like Robert the Bruce. And he has invested bigly in this process so it's going to be difficult to lay this all at the feet of Ryan.

I'm not ready to start believing CNN on this topic or anything for that matter. The vote is still scheduled for this afternoon and the debate is going on in the House right now.

The only thing I'm pretty confident of is if this does go down to defeat it won't get brought up again this year or tax cuts won't.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (/tuJf)

63 willow: "Wouldn't a full repeal today leave a lot of people in this systems ass hanging out ?"

Yes. About 1/3 to 1/4 as many people as are NOW, um, left with their ass hanging out. The number of "beneficiaries" of O-care is tiny, tiny. Probably under 6 million - and possibly substantially so, when you subtract regular insurance refugees (people who were priced out of their normal market, then manipulated their taxable income to qualify for crappy, subsidized O-care policies).

And first things first. Medicaid is an entirely separate issue. It has nothing to do, inherently, with O-care's worst elements. Nothing.

Separate these g-damn things from the start. Two repeal vehicles (if you want, just skip O-care action on reconciliation entirely - you can repeal anything via normal legislation, there are no limits, it's reconciliation that has the limits).

The slimy attempt to conflate and confuse the two issues will be unsustainable when the two entirely separate topics are treated separately.

Posted by: rhomboid at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (QDnY+)

64 The "pass it so the public can see what's in it!" approach to legislation that affects your very life has always seemed such a perfect description of a over-powering bureaucratic state, with the requisite protected political class immune to the contents of the bill

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (gwPgz)

65 Posted by: Javems at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (yOqwj)
----
Right Beavis !

Posted by: EVLINC! at March 24, 2017 01:20 PM (y3aQB)

66 You mean the Guy Who Over & had alwways Greased his squeekhole for Clinton ? That Newt ?

Wtf?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 01:20 PM (LTHVh)

67 Good.
Let it go down in flames.
The government shouldn't be in the health care business at all.

Posted by: Evelle Snoats at March 24, 2017 01:20 PM (2SERm)

68 This was done too quickly with too little genuine persuasion or argumentation. I think a good part of populism is that people want to be consulted on these big moves, and do not just want our cadre of leaders telling us what they have decided on our behalf.

==================

I said this before, but I'm now rooting for it to fail just to give a hit to House leadership's hubris.

A bit more humility from them about what they can accomplish and how they go about it would be a good thing.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:20 PM (ELUpj)

69 More failure theatre from the GOP Establishment RINOs. They didn't really want to repeal Obamacare so they served a crap sandwich that had little chance of passing.

The RINOs screw the base and America once again.

Posted by: WannabeAnglican at March 24, 2017 01:20 PM (TxOvA)

70 1. Do we have an extradition treaty with Tahiti?
Posted by: Meremortal

*******

Baracka left the States without his sweetie
To spend some time abroad, out in Tahiti
Although it's tourist season
That's really not the reason
He thought there was no extradition treaty.

Posted by: Muldoon at March 24, 2017 01:20 PM (wPiJc)

71 I'm with you, Ace.

Posted by: SueM at March 24, 2017 01:21 PM (9JAg9)

72 Don't you have that reversed?
Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 01:18 PM (LTHVh)

Not as far as Trump is concerned. He is still saying today he wants it passed.

I have no opinion on whether the bill is good or bad as I haven't read it and don't trust anything I might read about it from others.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 01:21 PM (3myMJ)

73 22 The Republicans never planned to be back in charge so they never gamed this out.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 01:14 PM (LTHVh)

----------------

I think this is a big part of the problem right now. Plus we still have a lot of GOPe weasels we need to cow.

Posted by: Soona at March 24, 2017 01:21 PM (Fmupd)

74 48
Has anyone heard if Sec'y of HHS Price has started rolling back any of
the "Secretary Shall" provisions of PPACA or if he is waiting on the new
framework from Congress?

Posted by: Muldoon at March 24, 2017 01:18 PM (wPiJc)

Supposedly in Phase 2 of the process. See the chart here on Conservative Treehouse:

http://tinyurl.com/mfxzu2o

Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2017 01:21 PM (Enq6K)

75 55 Spicer confirms 3:30 vote.
Egg meet face.
Posted by: Under Fire

get the football Lucy

Posted by: Rick in SK at March 24, 2017 01:21 PM (FZYNt)

76 Of course, the democrats in the house 'could' vote for the bill to hand it over to the democrats in the senate.

Wouldn't that be fun.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 24, 2017 01:22 PM (7CcnX)

77 "Setting Ryan up to fail" is a stupid way to get the stink of failure on yourself.

If this is the Freedom Caucus doing, It's looking more and more to me like the Tea Party is saving ObamaCare as a permanent entitlement.

Where exactly did the idea come that this all had to be done in one perfect bill?

Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 01:22 PM (mKRm7)

78 Presstitutes are drooling over a failure. I think Acosta has a pre-boner.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 24, 2017 01:22 PM (ymRuQ)

79 53 I think this is a big setback and I'm thinking ObamaCare is here to stay.

Oh well, maybe Trump can cut my taxes and it will mean more money in my pocket. I'll need it for my premiums.

Republicans had nearly 8 years to figure this out, I guess they thought they were never going to win again.
Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (mKRm7)

==================

Is there some kind of Constitutional clause that I don't know about that says that Congress may only have one try at repealing a previously passed law?

With the ACA continuing to make things worse, I can imagine it getting easier to rip out more of it in a single bill than now.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:22 PM (ELUpj)

80 Looks like Trump is making Ryno work for a living. Sink or Swim numbnuts. lol

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at March 24, 2017 01:22 PM (aovyt)

81 These people could fuck up a cup of coffee.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at March 24, 2017 01:22 PM (S7y6x)

82 Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 01:20 PM (LTHVh)
---
The Guy who Bent over & always greased his squeekhole for Clinton
----
Google Community Revitalization Act ! Google it. Want to know what caused the 2008 recession

Posted by: EVLINC! at March 24, 2017 01:22 PM (y3aQB)

83 Zo, these bastards were blabbing about repeal for 7 years and had no serious plan in place, but hey had time to go on endless trips overseas, vacations and "meetings with constituents"

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 01:23 PM (+JCjY)

84 61
The bill I would like to see is kill obamcare in its entirety with the provision that all health insurance policies are grandfathered if the consumer wishes until Dec 31, 2018. And then remove any federal restrictions on state lines.

That gives them a year and a half to solve the 2 items (pre-existing and 26 year olds) that people seem to like. In the meantime we can have new market rate policies.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (ODxAs)

=================

Hmm....

Nice world you live in over there. Can I join?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:23 PM (ELUpj)

85 willow yes, that's my point.

There is a tiny, tiny number of "winners" under O-care.

There are a large number of losers.

That's why this issue has been one-sided, forever. It's an open door, politically.

Claiming otherwise is stupid, or dishonest.

Posted by: rhomboid at March 24, 2017 01:23 PM (QDnY+)

86 Posted by: Under Fire at March 24, 2017 01:22 PM (ymRuQ)
----
can a Clit get a Boner?

Posted by: EVLINC! at March 24, 2017 01:23 PM (y3aQB)

87 Shame on them for trying to shove this down our throats in the first place.

Posted by: mx4 at March 24, 2017 01:23 PM (FOIGy)

88 17 Get the government out of the health care racket.
Period, end of argument.
Posted by: navybrat at March 24, 2017 01:13 PM (rnOcr)

Exactly.

Problem: Not everyone can afford to pay for stuff they want/ need

It defies all logic and reason to believe that adding costs, agencies, staff, etc. to the problem of affordablility of anything will improve affordability.

If you move past common sense to rudementary thought, it becomes obvious that subsidizing anything results in making it more expensive.

Posted by: Damiano at March 24, 2017 01:23 PM (n3oGs)

89 81 These people could fuck up a cup of coffee.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at March 24, 2017 01:22 PM (S7y6x)

Yep. Leave that to the experts.

You want your grande venti extra burned with a side of virtue signal, right?

Posted by: Starbucks at March 24, 2017 01:24 PM (7HtZB)

90 Fair points, Ace, but the bill is absolute dog shit, and Paul Ryan should have known he wouldn't have the votes ahead of time.

All the bill needs to do is 1) Get costs down, 2) figure out how to handle preexisting condotions, and 3) deal with Medicaid, because half the states expanded it and half the states didn't.

Complicated issues sure, but one might assume that they had a plan for that but obviously not. Better plan may be to let it die, the insurance industry is going to need a bailout of some kind eventually. Try to get something done then I guess.

Posted by: GrapeDrink at March 24, 2017 01:24 PM (/nQav)

91 >>Is there some kind of Constitutional clause that I don't know about that says that Congress may only have one try at repealing a previously passed law?

Stop looking at the Constitution and look at the Congressional calendar and reality. The Constitution also doesn't say that the House must pass an Obamacare repeal bill either.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 01:24 PM (/tuJf)

92 Great post ace, Spot on as usual.

Posted by: Max Power at March 24, 2017 01:24 PM (q177U)

93 22 The Republicans never planned to be back in charge so they never gamed this out.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 01:14 PM (LTHVh)

Exactly. They were always referred to as "the party of NO" during the Obama regime.

They perfected that, and haven't changed a thing under Trump.

Posted by: jwb7605 at March 24, 2017 01:24 PM (DofIg)

94 I'm with you, Ace.
Posted by: SueM at March 24, 2017 01:21 PM (9JAg9)

Depending on how these two self-identify, this could be significant!

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 01:24 PM (3myMJ)

95
The slimy attempt to conflate and confuse the two issues will be unsustainable when the two entirely separate topics are treated separately.
Posted by: rhomboid at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (QDnY+)

ty, I like the explanation of the best way forward, i often think ideas should be sent to ryan trump whoemever to give them an assist.

I would also like to see any NEW implementation with the addendum ALL govt employees congress senate , everyone receives the exact same BS as the rest of us.
i think They would then take the legislation more seriously

Posted by: willow at March 24, 2017 01:24 PM (R7cwD)

96 63

And first things first. Medicaid is an entirely separate issue. It has nothing to do, inherently, with O-care's worst elements. Nothing.

Separate these g-damn things from the start. Two repeal vehicles (if you want, just skip O-care action on reconciliation entirely - you can repeal anything via normal legislation, there are no limits, it's reconciliation that has the limits).

The slimy attempt to conflate and confuse the two issues will be unsustainable when the two entirely separate topics are treated separately.
Posted by: rhomboid at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (QDnY+)

===================

Also, it's been shown that most of the new enrollees in Medicaid after the expansion were previously eligible under the old rules.

Killing the Medicaid expansion would actually have a much smaller impact than many people assume.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:24 PM (ELUpj)

97 86 Posted by: Under Fire at March 24, 2017 01:22 PM (ymRuQ)
----
can a Clit get a Boner?
Posted by: EVLINC! at March 24, 2017 01:23 PM (y3aQB)

In it's own little way.

Posted by: josephistan at March 24, 2017 01:24 PM (7HtZB)

98 It's a win-win for Democrats. If this crap sandwich passes, the GOP owns the national healthcare dumpster fire (which this bill throws gasoline on). If the bill fails, well you know the rest.

Posted by: CORRUPT CORRUPT CORRUPT at March 24, 2017 01:24 PM (qYCgM)

99 86 can a Clint get a boners?

Good point.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 24, 2017 01:24 PM (ymRuQ)

100 We don't need to get it fast, we need to get it right.

Posted by: Any Schumer at March 24, 2017 01:25 PM (jw2Xw)

101 Ha...Ha..Ha. Trump is a clown and idiot. Presdent Obama beat him again and now the whole world knows "he could screw-up a wet dream". Brattleboro is proud of Presdent Obama and stills supports him and we still love also.

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT at March 24, 2017 01:25 PM (WmgTn)

102
You can't fix something that is fundamentally wrong at its foundation. It must go entirely.

If Ryancare becomes law, premiums, deductibles and co-pays will continue to increase.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 01:25 PM (ODxAs)

103 Community Revitalization Act !

Anything else?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 01:25 PM (LTHVh)

104 Just bring to a vote one of the several clean repeal bills that have already passed.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 24, 2017 01:25 PM (7ZVPa)

105 Totally unrelated, but I just came upon this article and I hope you will read it asap:

http://tinyurl.com/mqwqqdu

"Freedom Watch notifies congress of a 'Deep State' intelligence community whistle blower, Dennis Montgomery, with hundreds of millions of documents showing CIA and FBI and Intelligence Committees were spying on, and conducting surveillance on, American citizens for political purposes."

Posted by: mx4 at March 24, 2017 01:26 PM (FOIGy)

106 I trust Trump.

I do not trust Congress.

If Trump wants this piece of crap, I think he is wrong. But I will support passing it.

Posted by: rd at March 24, 2017 01:26 PM (iT57s)

107 Is there some kind of Constitutional clause that I don't know about that says that Congress may only have one try at repealing a previously passed law?

With the ACA continuing to make things worse, I can imagine it getting easier to rip out more of it in a single bill than now.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

______

Sort of if you keep the filibuster, I think certain budget items have to be done in order, but I'm no parlimentarian.

Politically, Trump has to move on. The first 100 days is when stuff gets done.

The people that get free shit will continue to get free shit even if ObamaCare gets worse. Taking those people off only gets harder as time goes on.

Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 01:26 PM (mKRm7)

108 I like test-driving a car two or three times before I buy it.
I especially enjoyed explaining this point of view to shotgun-wielding fathers.

I don't think there was ever a time when the "man in the street" thought he just wasn't smart enough to understand law-making. But I have met plenty of union activists, party faithful, et al. who were willing to go along with having their laws written for them. "Pass the bill to find out" finally tore that.

We've been at a point for a very long time that a law naming a Post Office required a lobbyist and a congressional aide to frame it, and a whip to enact it. Schoolhouse Rock notwithstanding, it might be time to close down the sausage works.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at March 24, 2017 01:26 PM (H5rtT)

109 TRUMP & RYAN = LOSERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT at March 24, 2017 01:26 PM (WmgTn)

110 I dunno ace, will all the 29 year olds on the blog remember the NAFTA debates? I know we're pretty wonkish now but I think back then I was watching Ninja Turtles.

Posted by: broseidon on even newer magic glowy rectangle at March 24, 2017 01:26 PM (a2NH2)

111 91
Stop looking at the Constitution and look at the Congressional calendar and reality. The Constitution also doesn't say that the House must pass an Obamacare repeal bill either.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 01:24 PM (/tuJf)

===================

Yeah. I know that.

But just because this fails, doesn't mean that they can't try again later. It may not be this year or even next year, but the opportunity will still exist.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:26 PM (ELUpj)

112 Do we have an extradition treaty with Tahiti?
Posted by: Meremortal

Hard to find out. I've binged both "countries with" and "countries without" extradition treaties and they aren't listed on either.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 24, 2017 01:26 PM (eauMe)

113 why is there any debate at all? Repeal, is pretty straight forward, Repeal is what we voted fore. FASTTRACK repeal, slow walk and debate 'replace."

Posted by: wickedpinto at March 24, 2017 01:26 PM (CIpNU)

114 What Ace said, x 100.

Posted by: simplemind at March 24, 2017 01:27 PM (xVRrG)

115 They should focus on bringing cost down through price transparency, competition and moving away from third party payment systems except for catastrophic illness.

If everyone relied on third-party insurance or a vast government Foodcare program to buy your groceries a box of cereal would cost $45.

The problem is that there is a huge class of hospital and health care administrators, government bureaucrats, insurance company managers and others who depend on the current third-party payer system to fill their rice bowls.

That is why the GOPe solution is simply to reshuffle the deck to change the taxing and payment mechanisms but not to try to upset the third-party payer paradigm.

Posted by: Scalia's Ghost at March 24, 2017 01:27 PM (3OAG2)

116 I trust Trump.

I do not trust Congress.

If Trump wants this piece of crap, I think he is wrong. But I will support passing it.
Posted by: rd

_____

On every other issue except this one, I would agree.

But let's be honest, Trump was the guy that was making he case for Single Payer in the GOP debates.

Right after the election, he went through the list of free shit he wanted to keep from ObamaCare.

Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 01:27 PM (mKRm7)

117 113
why is there any debate at all? Repeal, is pretty straight forward,
Repeal is what we voted fore. FASTTRACK repeal, slow walk and debate
'replace."

Posted by: wickedpinto at March 24, 2017 01:26 PM (CIpNU)

HOLEEE SHIITE!

Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2017 01:27 PM (Enq6K)

118 At least Repubs are discussing the details and shit.

More importantly not letting that Rino-Corpo-Scum-Bucket Ryan have his way with Amerca's balloon knot and shit.

Posted by: dananjcon at March 24, 2017 01:28 PM (WLK0w)

119 Posted by: rickb223 at March 24, 2017 01:26 PM (eauMe)

I'll bet a look at Pamela Anderson's tits we don't.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 01:28 PM (3myMJ)

120 >>But just because this fails, doesn't mean that they can't try again later. It may not be this year or even next year, but the opportunity will still exist.

This assumes that Obamacare doesn't crash and burn or have costs spin entirely out of control by next year. Big assumption.

And if it does you know who will get blamed. 2018 elections could be interesting.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 01:28 PM (/tuJf)

121 There is no reason at all that the most important parts of O-care cannot be repealed in normal legislation. The most pernicious parts were passed that way (not via reconciliation).

Between HHS's discretion on the administrative side and simple targeted repeal legislation, there is no reason this cannot be done.

There *should* be a phased process. Phase one has obviously always been - return to status quo ante December 31, 2014 (before most of it took effect).

The danger is that nothing more, or not much, would then be done. However, that "danger" pales compared to the devastating effects the current situation has on a large number of households, which could be expected to be resolved if we just went back to pre-O-care conditions.

And yes actually fixing the govt-induced (state and federal) destruction of normal economic dynamics in health care needs to be fixed to prevent national insolvency, but this is triage. Save the people bleeding out first.

Posted by: rhomboid at March 24, 2017 01:28 PM (QDnY+)

122 107 Sort of if you keep the filibuster, I think certain budget items have to be done in order, but I'm no parlimentarian.

Politically, Trump has to move on. The first 100 days is when stuff gets done.

The people that get free shit will continue to get free shit even if ObamaCare gets worse. Taking those people off only gets harder as time goes on.
Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 01:26 PM (mKRm7)

===================

There aren't that many who get free shit, and a bunch of them would still get free shit if the ACA was pulled up by the roots because they enrolled in Medicaid after the expansion but were previously eligible under the old rules.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:28 PM (ELUpj)

123 My stalwart conservative republican Congressperson has decided that the best way to represent me is to essentially disconnect her phone on the day that a major bill like healthcare might get voted on.

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 24, 2017 01:28 PM (gwPgz)

124 65
Posted by: Javems at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (yOqwj)

----

Right Beavis !
------------------------------

Not sure I get your reference.

Posted by: Javems at March 24, 2017 01:29 PM (yOqwj)

125 Repubocare is not a compromise, it is a sell-out. In this case no bill is a win. Fck RINO Ryan.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 24, 2017 01:29 PM (mpXpK)

126 Better link:

http://tinyurl.com/n5ew7q4
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks.

Like the 'ettes who feel ashamed to be female by various stupid feminist stunts, this makes me ashamed to be amerasian. What the f*ck is wrong with these people?

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at March 24, 2017 01:29 PM (vRcUp)

127 Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:23 PM <<<<<

I didn't say it was probable. But neither is most of what congress comes up with.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 01:29 PM (ODxAs)

128 In this day and age, political momentum is a farce. It's something pundits who still don't understand what happened in November espouse. People barely remember what happened yesterday, let alone a week ago.
I laugh at sites like 538 that are already projecting the 2018 midterms. Trump will have countless stray voltage tweets between now and then.
Much better to take the L now than pass this bill, which takes the albatross off the Dems' neck and drops it right in Trump's lap, with an extra helping of turd.

Posted by: gewa76 at March 24, 2017 01:29 PM (ZuujH)

129 Well, the King may be weakened, but at least he's driving down the street in a 1969 Dodge Charger R/T Convertible wearing a freshly tailored Armani suit, rather than sitting backward naked with his dick in his hand on a 14 year old swayback pony like Obama did for 8 years.

Posted by: Sharkman at March 24, 2017 01:29 PM (zKIA2)

130 good points.

if trump team needs wins, the smoking gun should help.

Get this shit right!

hopefully, the breitbart advisor class reads your blog

Posted by: Joe Inaugurating 45 in DC at March 24, 2017 01:30 PM (55//3)

131 This is triage at best.

The ratchet has turned and the gear is locked. The GOPe are dead set against any pruning of the Leviathan. They are devote acolytes to it's monstrousness.

We are to far into the era of obscene government and open borders for any of this to matter to the life of our Republic.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 24, 2017 01:30 PM (GgzGa)

132 Tahiti is a collectivite d'outre mer - French overseas dependency.

Posted by: broseidon on even newer magic glowy rectangle at March 24, 2017 01:30 PM (a2NH2)

133 Oh some Dem on the house floor has a YUGE sign next to him that reads #TRUMPCARE with 4 bullet points on how evil it is.

It's bigly....

Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2017 01:30 PM (Enq6K)

134 Ryan and Rinocare are like a 800lbs catfish nibbling at you toes while you dangle your feet from the dock.

Drain the swamp at your own peril.

Posted by: Fritz at March 24, 2017 01:30 PM (MF/hn)

135 Yeah I think there is a lot of bullshitting going on. Staff has the bill in its current draft form and people have been pouring over this. They are taking positions precisely because they've done the analysis, not the converse.

It's about what they don't know in a political sense that is holding them up. It's also because they have lots of people pulling at them from interest groups. All this talk about "principle " is garbage.

So in the end this is easy, but they are obfuscating the material aspects to cover their poltical dawdling.

Remember the number one issue in the election was healthcare. When they talk about the balls of Obamacare swinging into someone's chin while it's collapsing, (just let it collapse) those are Congress constituents.

I say let's see how that turns out.

There is ultimately going to be a big price for congress to pay if they don't get this done. Trump brought it up, he pushed it and Congress failed. That's going t be the story.

By the way, it will be the same on tax reform because this Congress has no balls when it actually time to do something that matters. You know, as opposed to the last eight years of theater when they knew Obama would veto their "principles" bills.

After the next congressional election they can all sit around in their drunken stupor, drinks bought with the Koch money, and offer alternating soliloquys on how it "was Ttump's fault"

Posted by: Marcus T at March 24, 2017 01:30 PM (OFxPz)

136 If this can't pass now, it will never pass with this Congress. Time isn't going to change the fact that moderate Republicans and conservative Republicans want completely different things from this bill.

Posted by: CORRUPT CORRUPT CORRUPT at March 24, 2017 01:30 PM (qYCgM)

137 If there's no mandate penalty, won't the economics of exchanges continue to spiral downward? Who picks up the difference? The US? Insurers? People who would buy coverage will drop it if premiums keep going up.

Bannon is said to say that RyanCare got written by the insurers. I notice that UnitedHealth -- the big gorilla -- stock price has been doing well. Coincidence?

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 24, 2017 01:30 PM (SIY7D)

138 I read Conservative Treehouse. i appreciate that they took the time to make the case. my disagreement with them is partly philosophical. they said this is the best deal we can get under the filibuster rules. I say, never mind that, I want to make the Democrats live under Reid-Obama-Pelosi rules

Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at March 24, 2017 01:30 PM (YsNvC)

139 conservative republican Congressperson has decided that the best way to represent me is to essentially disconnect her phone on the day that a major bill like healthcare might get voted on.

Posted by: Hrothgar

--

Howdy, neighbor! Actually, you might not be my neighbor, it seems to be a problem with several republican phone lines.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 24, 2017 01:30 PM (7ZVPa)

140 My thoughts about the Golden Scalpweasel is that this is away for Trump to twist Ryan around. Punishment for spooking and running away at the first sign of media drama.

A good player always has more than one way to win and Trumps been playing well.

Mind you, I also agree that Trump is more moderate than I am so there are likely things about Obamanation Care that he wants to keep.

Hell, I have some health care reform ideas, mostly around transparency and cross-state health insurance purchases. I'm not against the idea of improving health care.

But I think we should kill O-care, let it burn and then build something simpler and clearer.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 24, 2017 01:31 PM (zsHGH)

141 120
This assumes that Obamacare doesn't crash and burn or have costs spin entirely out of control by next year. Big assumption.

And if it does you know who will get blamed. 2018 elections could be interesting.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 01:28 PM (/tuJf)

===================

We'll see.

I really don't think it'll be a wipeout for Republicans, though.

1) Favorable map
2) Republicans still haven't voted for it
3) Can make the argument that with more Republicans in Congress easier to make changes
4) ACA crashing and burning? Well, looks like those who want to repeal it completely might have been right, no?

I can imagine the counterpoints pretty easily too, but it'll be a narrative war, just like always, and I think we have a decent shot.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:31 PM (ELUpj)

142 There aren't that many who get free shit

Posted by: TheJamesMadison

________

I would completely disagree, there are absolutely a large amount of people that are being subsidized by another group of people.

Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 01:31 PM (mKRm7)

143
I trust Trump.

I do not trust Congress.

If Trump wants this piece of crap, I think he is wrong. But I will support passing it.

==========

I trust Trump and his team, and do not trust the Koch Bros who promised to pay zillions to support those who vote against this bill. The same Koch Bros who so tirelessly worked against Trump during the election. There is more going on than meets the eye.

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 01:31 PM (+JCjY)

144 in the meantime, can we execute the aca AS ENACTED, and do away with the 'executive fixes' that were never legislated?

Faithfully execute the Laws.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 24, 2017 01:32 PM (oGRue)

145 Mr Ryan, if you're going to fail, you're going to fail publicly by trying and not by quitting. - PDT (in my head)

Posted by: IP at March 24, 2017 01:32 PM (hUtue)

146 Ryan needs to go NOW!!!

The fucking Republicans had 6 fucking years to get their shit together on this and this is the fucking result?

You fucking usesless cuntrags!!!!

Posted by: Kreplach at March 24, 2017 01:32 PM (Gh/jd)

147 >>> Like the 'ettes who feel ashamed to be female by various stupid feminist stunts, this makes me ashamed to be amerasian. What the f*ck is wrong with these people?

His friend wasn't holding his beer.

Posted by: fluffy at March 24, 2017 01:32 PM (jw2Xw)

148 @Marcus T

Also +1 on what you said.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 24, 2017 01:32 PM (zsHGH)

149
Not sure I get your reference.
----
THEN I WILL TYPE IN BIG LETTERS & SLOW. THE PRESIDENT & HIS CRONIES SPYING & WIRETAPPING ON THE TRANSTITION TEAM & THE PRESIDENT ELECT IS A LITTLE BIT MORE IMPORTANT THAN HEALTHCARE BILL (FAILURE)

Posted by: EVLINC! at March 24, 2017 01:33 PM (y3aQB)

150 why is there any debate at all? Repeal, is pretty straight forward, Repeal is what we voted fore. FASTTRACK repeal, slow walk and debate 'replace."

Posted by: wickedpinto at March 24, 2017 01:26 PM (CIpNU)

As others have pointed out, the driver behind the 'replace' part of repeal and replace is the President. Right or wrong, President Trump believes every American should be insured.

Ryan takes the political hit on failure but he would not have gone forward without the President's tacit approval. There would've been no going forward if the legislation was sure to face a presidential veto.

Posted by: troyriser at March 24, 2017 01:33 PM (Fw5cQ)

151 115 They should focus on bringing cost down through price transparency, competition and moving away from third party payment systems except for catastrophic illness.

If everyone relied on third-party insurance or a vast government Foodcare program to buy your groceries a box of cereal would cost $45.

The problem is that there is a huge class of hospital and health care administrators, government bureaucrats, insurance company managers and others who depend on the current third-party payer system to fill their rice bowls.

That is why the GOPe solution is simply to reshuffle the deck to change the taxing and payment mechanisms but not to try to upset the third-party payer paradigm.
Posted by: Scalia's Ghost at March 24, 2017 01:27 PM (3OAG2)

This.

WHen my son was a baby, he was failing to thrive on breast milk, was allergic to cows milk, and had to go on special formula. In the US, it was 28 dollars a can, which was good for about three to four days.

Fortunately, we lived in Panama, where that same can cost 9 dollars. A nineteen dollar difference. On a trip home, I mentioned this to our pediatrician, who laughed and said, "welcome to the effects of medical malpractice." Now, I certainly wouldn't rate Panamanian medical care as superior to US care- and I had surgery, and care for a high risk pregnancy there, so I have something relevant for comparison. But it is cheaper, even for low income people, because there are no built in malpractice costs for services.

Posted by: moki at March 24, 2017 01:33 PM (wuzmq)

152 >>I can imagine the counterpoints pretty easily too, but it'll be a narrative war, just like always, and I think we have a decent shot.

We'll see. One thing seems obvious, there are wildly different views as to what this bill does and what it doesn't do and what can actually be accomplished in Congress.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 01:33 PM (/tuJf)

153 Good, it needs to die, and they need to re-think this. This bill does not get the gov. out of my business, and doesn't stop the next administration from undoing anything that it does that's positive. IMO, that is why it's so important to just repeal o-care and start from scratch. I truly do not understand what is so freaking hard about it.

Posted by: spypeach at March 24, 2017 01:33 PM (u/r83)

154 Well, at least we got Gorsuch.

Of course, he'll probably be the deciding vote that says, why, yes, a district court judge CAN overrule the President and force us to accept ticking time bombs from ME shit holes.

Posted by: CORRUPT CORRUPT CORRUPT at March 24, 2017 01:33 PM (qYCgM)

155 This is triage at best.

The ratchet has turned and the gear is locked. The GOPe are dead set against any pruning of the Leviathan. They are devote acolytes to it's monstrousness.

We are to far into the era of obscene government and open borders for any of this to matter to the life of our Republic.

Posted by: weft cut-loop

_____

On most issues I would agree, but Trump's own HHS Secretary has said repeal only is not something he will sign.

GOPe are scum, but Trump is also a bit of a bleeding heart on reforming ObamaCare

Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 01:34 PM (mKRm7)

156 besides, if Republicans' name is on this bill, Democrats can run on Republicans "inadequately funding" it. that is how Democrats ran against Republicans "inadequately funding" No Child Left Behind.

Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at March 24, 2017 01:34 PM (YsNvC)

157 I'm just going to repost this comment to remind everyone what a political winner the Trump-Ryan axis are pushing. And a rebuke to anyone who wants to claim that a few conservatives are standing in the way of the majority, of even republicans.
---
http://preview.tinyurl.com/k768vep

A Quinnipiac University poll found that people disapprove of the GOP

legislation by 56 percent to 17 percent, with 26 percent undecided.

Trump's handling of health care was viewed unfavorably by 6 in 10.

To
put this in context, there has never been a poll of obamacare, whether
the weekly polls before it passed or the every couple of month polls
after, where it was above water in approval. And yet the GOPe has put
something together they want us to pretend is repeal which gets clear
majority opposition and all of 17% support.

Trumpcare is less legitimate than obamacare was.

And that's their hill to die on.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn at March 24, 2017 01:34 PM (3Liv/)

158 I never saw RyanCare getting past the Senate.

So I thought the end game was to have it fail in the Senate even though it got an R majority, and then blame it on Schumer and the Ds going into 2018.

But Ryan may not get it out of the House

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 24, 2017 01:34 PM (SIY7D)

159 EVELINC! needs to calm down

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 01:34 PM (+JCjY)

160 The Bannon statement is intriguing. Perhaps this is a Ninja attack on Ryan and his cabal.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 24, 2017 01:34 PM (ymRuQ)

161
In any case, there just aren't enough actual conservatives in congress to ever get this thing killed I guess. Most of the repubs are squishy left when it comes to cutting back govt. and social programs.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 01:35 PM (ODxAs)

162 Doesn't that "Secretary shall" phrase allow Trump to completely rework a lot of stuff without legislation?

Obama made like 41 changes to the bill after it passed.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 01:35 PM (3myMJ)

163 Take the time to get this shit right. (still don't understand why BigGov ever has to be involved at all)

Once the shoe drops on this whistle blower, its gonna be
all cloak n dagger shit on the "news" for at least a week. Git yer popcorn n shit!

Posted by: dananjcon at March 24, 2017 01:35 PM (WLK0w)

164 This sucks for my portfolio.

In other news, Chicago becomes sanctuary city for Mark Sanchez!

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at March 24, 2017 01:35 PM (hqZPQ)

165 These presstitutes as the same effing question 20 different ways.

Spicer has had it.

Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2017 01:35 PM (Enq6K)

166 So why would Sec'y Price need to wait until Phase 2? Wouldn't it make sense for him to go ahead and roll back those things that were at the discretion of HHS, regardless of what Congress is doing?

Posted by: Muldoon at March 24, 2017 01:35 PM (wPiJc)

167 If Ryancare becomes law, premiums, deductibles and co-pays will continue to increase.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 01:25 PM (ODxAs)

I think it's easier to just assume the Republican Party does what is in the best interest of the Chamber of Commerce, and then ask questions like "what would it benefit the CoC to have our health insurance costs go down?"

There is none?

Ok then, I think we know what the Republican Party is going to do here.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 24, 2017 01:35 PM (TOk1P)

168 >>>"Setting Ryan up to fail" is a stupid way to get the stink of failure on yourself.

So you're saying it's going to be an early night?

Posted by: Max Power at March 24, 2017 01:35 PM (q177U)

169 I like to imagine there was a time were Representatives said to themselves, 'I may lose the next election but, I'm going to do what best for the country now'.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 01:36 PM (LTHVh)

170 Just thinking a bit. If this does pass and go to the senate, couldn't the senate repubs do the same thing the dems did when they passed this POS?

You know, shell out the house bill and put in a repeal based on reconciliation by keeping the original house bill title?

Posted by: Soona at March 24, 2017 01:36 PM (Fmupd)

171 You fucking useless cuntrags!!!!

Posted by: Kreplach at March 24, 2017 01:32 PM (Gh/jd)

Hey, now!

Posted by: Cotton Ponies Local 69 at March 24, 2017 01:36 PM (zKIA2)

172 Bring back one of the bills Obama vetoed. Or find a new line of work after 2018.

Posted by: Ok at March 24, 2017 01:36 PM (K2SnJ)

173 In other news, Chicago becomes sanctuary city for Mark Sanchez!

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie

Dirty Sanchez should make you forget about Jay Cutler

Posted by: Rick in SK at March 24, 2017 01:36 PM (FZYNt)

174 @Grump928(C)

Ah, that's almost as good as my Christy Brinkley dreams...

Almost.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 24, 2017 01:36 PM (zsHGH)

175
@149

No they are about equal. One shows that we have the intelligence gathering capability of a police state. The other shows that we have a health care system of a socialist state.

a.k.a socialist police state.

Obama has demonstrated that the constitution is a meaningless document, and the GOP is afraid to fight back.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 24, 2017 01:36 PM (7CcnX)

176 152 >>I can imagine the counterpoints pretty easily too, but it'll be a narrative war, just like always, and I think we have a decent shot.

We'll see. One thing seems obvious, there are wildly different views as to what this bill does and what it doesn't do and what can actually be accomplished in Congress.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 01:33 PM (/tuJf)

==================

"can" be accomplished includes the idea of ridding the Senate of the filibuster of the Senate. That's where a lot of people are talking past each other.

I just find it hard to believe that Republican failure to repeal the ACA right now, without passing anything to make it worse, will turn into an effective Democratic attack.

"We fucked up health care, and Republicans can't fix it! Vote Democratic!"
-Probably a real ad

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:36 PM (ELUpj)

177 What I can't figure out is the House's idea that they can only do ONE thing at a time....

Why can't they do O'care repeal and Tax cuts AT THE SAME DAMN TIME??

They have hundreds of staffers... votes only take a short period of time...

Oh.... its so they can glean the most positive press out of a single narrative at a time, instead of efficiently doing their damn jobs!

Posted by: Don Q. at March 24, 2017 01:36 PM (NgKpN)

178
ObamaCare is an Alien face hugger on the face of America. It may take time to get rid of.

When you get rid of it it leaves a surprise inside.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 24, 2017 01:36 PM (IqV8l)

179 I never saw RyanCare getting past the Senate.

So I thought the end game was to have it fail in the Senate even though it got an R majority, and then blame it on Schumer and the Ds going into 2018.

But Ryan may not get it out of the House
Posted by: Ignoramus
________

That would have been the smarter play than this.

Ryan really is though a fuck up if he couldn't have gotten something through the house.

One silver lining is he's probably on his way out.

Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 01:37 PM (mKRm7)

180 The bill I would like to see is kill obamcare in its
entirety with the provision that all health insurance policies are
grandfathered if the consumer wishes until Dec 31, 2018. And then remove
any federal restrictions on state lines.

That gives them a year
and a half to solve the 2 items (pre-existing and 26 year olds) that
people seem to like. In the meantime we can have new market rate
policies.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 01:19 PM (ODxAs)
=====
In the immortal words of Insty: 'insufficient opportunities for graft'.

Posted by: mustbequantum at March 24, 2017 01:37 PM (MIKMs)

181 This assumes that Obamacare doesn't crash and burn or have costs spin entirely out of control by next year. Big assumption.�And if it does you know who will get blamed. 2018 elections could be interesting.
Posted by: JackStraw�

If obamacare crashes and burns it's still obamacare failing. The people hurt the worst aren't Trump voters. They're self interested non-paying consumers of the fruits of producers.

I'm not concerned. Let the democrats come to the table when they're ready to come to the table.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 24, 2017 01:37 PM (ZFUt7)

182 142 There aren't that many who get free shit

Posted by: TheJamesMadison

________

I would completely disagree, there are absolutely a large amount of people that are being subsidized by another group of people.
Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 01:31 PM (mKRm7)

Isn't it something like 47 or 48 percent of the US population who pay no taxes? If they aren't paying taxes, they are under the poverty level threshold, and are getting some form of financial assistance from state/local and or federal government.

Posted by: moki at March 24, 2017 01:37 PM (wuzmq)

183 How about a Simpson Bowler Commission of Health Care to solve the problem? OK S-B didn't work but once the commission comes back with a recommendation, Trump can present it to the congress as a done deal and if it's rejected, he will be the bipartisan consensus president. I don't see how the Dems can reject a commission, everybody loves a commission.

Posted by: bjwubbs at March 24, 2017 01:38 PM (j8gkg)

184 158 I never saw RyanCare getting past the Senate.

So I thought the end game was to have it fail in the Senate even though it got an R majority, and then blame it on Schumer and the Ds going into 2018.

But Ryan may not get it out of the House
Posted by: Ignoramus at March 24, 2017 01:34 PM (SIY7D)

===================

You know, if that was his strategy, it wouldn't be terrible.

But he would also want to share that with the people he was relying on.

Of course, the people he's relying on probably insist on actual change instead more failure theater (stupid HFC, demanding Congress do things that help the country...).

I don't think that's his strategy, though.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:38 PM (ELUpj)

185 You fucking useless cuntrags!!!!

Posted by: Kreplach at March 24, 2017 01:32 PM (Gh/jd)

Hey, now!
Posted by: Cotton Ponies Local 69

*Snort*

Posted by: rickb223 at March 24, 2017 01:38 PM (eauMe)

186 Wouldn't a full repeal today leave a lot of people in this systems ass hanging out ?
Posted by: willow at March 24, 2017 01:13 PM (R7cwD)

No it wouldn't. I would assume they would continue the subsidies for the policies issued for this year. It would be next year that is the problem.

I can understand the reluctance with doing away with the Medicaid expansion. Some sort of phase out has to happen there. But the delay with the rest, I don't understand. Personally, I'm getting killed by Obamacare.

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at March 24, 2017 01:38 PM (J70i0)

187 It was hopeless anyway. Any entitlement, once in place, is there forever.

The federal sow has many teats and everybody's sucking on at least one.

Posted by: Les Kinetic at March 24, 2017 01:38 PM (FOLru)

188 The only thing I'm pretty confident of is if this does go down to defeat it won't get brought up again this year or tax cuts won't.

*****************************************

I never understood why Trump seems to believe phase 2 and 3 would get passed after this one. Sounds too "We need to pass amnesty first and then we'll strengthen our borders"

Posted by: Captain FartsAStorm at March 24, 2017 01:38 PM (Ze4Jj)

189 >>> Where exactly did the idea come that this all had to be done in one perfect bill?
.......

The wacky notion that government taking control over 1/3 of the economy and adding trillions and cost, hundreds of page of legislation, and inserting themselves in the purchasing and healthcare choices of individuals could ever result in anything being more affordable.

Then there's also the part that people have been voting for 7 years to Repeal Obamacare, a very simple thing that could be done with less than a page, perhaps even a single sentence bill. The word "Replace" was never spoken by anyone in opposition to Obamacare from the time it was first conceived and even has far back as when Hillary was trying to ram something similar through under her husband in the 90s.

Yeah... crazy talk.

Everyone should shut the fuck up and pay their spiraling premiums and deductibles for less and less so that women who are too incompetent to keep their legs closed at zero cost can have free birth control pills, everyone in the country regardless of need or gender, can pitch in to pay for Pap smears, people who failed to take any responsibility for themselves or their needs can sign up for a policy after they get sick, obtain thousands of dollars in treatment, then never make even their first premium payment, and parents can continue to get a discount (paid for by others without children) for supporting their 26 year old "children" while they pursue their masters degree in interpretive dance.

Posted by: Damiano at March 24, 2017 01:38 PM (n3oGs)

190 I totally still think that the Republican-led Congress is going to go along with Trump's drastic (and drastically needed) shrinking of the Federal Government.

Posted by: Born This Very Minute at March 24, 2017 01:38 PM (qYCgM)

191 I just find it hard to believe that Republican failure to repeal the ACA right now, without passing anything to make it worse, will turn into an effective Democratic attack.

"We fucked up health care, and Republicans can't fix it! Vote Democratic!"
-Probably a real ad
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:36 PM (ELUpj)

See!! The Republicans did what you voted them in to do! The Blagarts!

Posted by: Lefty Writer at March 24, 2017 01:38 PM (NgKpN)

192 What I can't figure out is the House's idea that they can only do ONE thing at a time....

Why can't they do O'care repeal and Tax cuts AT THE SAME DAMN TIME??

They have hundreds of staffers... votes only take a short period of time...

Oh.... its so they can glean the most positive press out of a single narrative at a time, instead of efficiently doing their damn jobs!
Posted by: Don Q.

Supposedly its because of the filibuster and what bills only need 50 and which need 60.

So the reconciliation stuff on O'Care had to be done first.

Someone more knowlegeable me around here could probably explain it better

Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 01:38 PM (mKRm7)

193 Ryn-o, Ryn-yn-yn-o
Ryno come and he wan' go home
Ryn, he say Ryn, he say Ryn, he say Ryn, he say Ryn he say Ryn-yn-yn-o
Ryno come and he wan' go home
Work all night on a drink a'rum
(Ryno come and he wan' go home)
Stack exama till thee morning come
(Ryno come and he wan' go home)
Come, Mr. Tally Mon, tally me exama
(Ryno come and he wan' go home)
Come, Mr. Tally Mon, tally me exama
(Ryno come and he wan' go home)

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 24, 2017 01:39 PM (Nwg0u)

194 162 Doesn't that "Secretary shall" phrase allow Trump to completely rework a lot of stuff without legislation?

Obama made like 41 changes to the bill after it passed.
Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 01:35 PM (3myMJ)

====================

Changes that could:

1) Survive no longer than Trump's presidency

and

2) The judiciary would suddenly deem unlawful, even if they were word for word what Obama had previously done, for completely unknown reasons.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:39 PM (ELUpj)

195 >>So why would Sec'y Price need to wait until Phase 2? Wouldn't it make sense for him to go ahead and roll back those things that were at the discretion of HHS, regardless of what Congress is doing?

I imagine he will roll back certain things but others are dependent on underlying legislation to be really effective.

For example, Medicaid expansion which actually is tied to Obamacare is actually the biggest part of the Obamacare signup. This bill has a lot of Medicaid reform built right into it like restricting access to the people it was designed for and block granting the money to the states instead of making it a federally managed entitlement. Nothing Price can do about that and that is an enormous part of the whole package.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 01:39 PM (/tuJf)

196 Trump, Pence and Ryan have worked hand and glove on this bill.

If it fails it has nothing to do with them.

Once the vote fails, you will have a list of who is responsible. Then they can all give their deflection, er, excuses on why they stuck it to the American people.

I look forward to that conversation because it ends badly for these frauds.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 24, 2017 01:39 PM (OFxPz)

197 Breaking Muldoon News: Hercules proposes a GOP legislative plan to repeal and replace the pile of shit in the Augean stables.

Posted by: Muldoon at March 24, 2017 01:39 PM (wPiJc)

198 "I like test-driving a car two or three times before I buy it. It's a psychologically important thing to feel like you've made the best decision possible under the circumstances, rather than having doubts linger with you for years as you wonder, "Did I really make the right major consumer purchase that I'm still paying for each and every month...?"

Yep, going through that now. Everyone is pushing for a sale and a decision. But there's a time to slow down, think and look at all the options.

Related, when did Consumer Reports go Prog? I just subscribed to do some car research and they're lobbying their customers to prevent Repeal.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 24, 2017 01:40 PM (zsHGH)

199 Where exactly did the idea come that this all had to be done in one perfect bill?

Said it before:

Democrats window - hundred years

Republicans window - 5 minutes or fuck it

Posted by: Rick in SK at March 24, 2017 01:40 PM (FZYNt)

200 Ryno....Sorry to see the good name of one of the greatest 2nd basemen to ever play associated with this.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at March 24, 2017 01:40 PM (hqZPQ)

201 Part of the problem of getting this bill to pass is that it's so complicated. There are so many things to dislike that they can be spread around.

Would it really be politically infeasible to pass a one-or maybe two page bill that says:

1. You can buy the coverage you want to buy, as long as you can find someone willing to sell it to you.
2. You are allowed to sell whatever coverage you want.
3. Any law or regulation that conflicts with these rights is void.

It seems to me it would be very difficult even for Democrats, let alone soft Republicans, to vote against a bill that made the issues simple.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 24, 2017 01:40 PM (2lndx)

202 If it fails, then what ? more debate ? than what ?

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 01:40 PM (+JCjY)

203 @Muldoon

LOL.

We need him to pitch Congress off the planet like he did that bear.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 24, 2017 01:40 PM (zsHGH)

204 187 It was hopeless anyway. Any entitlement, once in place, is there forever.

The federal sow has many teats and everybody's sucking on at least one.
Posted by: Les Kinetic at March 24, 2017 01:38 PM (FOLru)

=================

Wasn't there one put in place in the late 80s that got killed a few years later? Something about health care for seniors?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:41 PM (ELUpj)

205 Like Tom Cotton said: We don't need to get it fast, we need to get it right.

Bingo. Rushing through bad legislation just to hit a self-imposed deadline is bad business. The GOPe has taken over seven years to develop a new healthcare paradigm. A few week, month, or even a year delay means nothing at this point. Forcing those who put you in office to eat a second crap sandwich except with more entrenched sauce means everything.

Get it done right. Take a year to develop and share the model. Just get it done before midterms so that you still have the votes needed.

And fire Ryan's Team. They recruit from the wrong city.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 24, 2017 01:41 PM (1CroS)

206 Doesn't that "Secretary shall" phrase allow Trump to completely rework a lot of stuff without legislation?

sure, and also the next administration, and so on...

Posted by: spypeach at March 24, 2017 01:41 PM (u/r83)

207 then what (dude !)

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 01:41 PM (+JCjY)

208 ...Ryan needs to go NOW...

Ryan is a symptom of a bigger issue. Remember when the House Republicans gave him a standing ovation for doing something that 75% of US voters disapprove of? (Funds Visas for 300,000 Muslim Migrants)

They like him because he has come out-of-the-closet while they are still cowering inside.

Posted by: Ok at March 24, 2017 01:41 PM (K2SnJ)

209 I just find it hard to believe that Republican failure to repeal the ACA right now, without passing anything to make it worse, will turn into an effective Democratic attack.

"We fucked up health care, and Republicans can't fix it! Vote Democratic!"
-Probably a real ad
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

______

Repeal of ObamaCare was a big vote booster for the GOP because people are really hurting. It's the equivalent of a MASSIVE tax increase on the middle class, normally middle of the road voters were voting R because of it

If the GOP can't fix this crisis, why are they voting Republican?

Also, at certain point, people are going to demand Single Payer, even people normally with a conservative bent.

I see that being the more likely scenario if ObamaCare fails

Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 01:41 PM (mKRm7)

210 Howdy, neighbor! Actually, you might not be my neighbor, it seems to be a problem with several republican phone lines.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 24, 2017 01:30 PM (7ZVPa)

I saw a note from my hosting provider that Verizon is having Internet issues in Pennsylvania today. I wonder if that's part of a larger problem affecting phone access getting through to D.C.

Posted by: filbert at March 24, 2017 01:41 PM (s5o+q)

211 I saw the Cotton Ponies at the Stone Pony back in '83.

Posted by: josephistan at March 24, 2017 01:41 PM (7HtZB)

212 To extend the baseball analogy further, you also don't want to burn through all your pitches just to win one game. When the game looks lost, it's best to conserve your energy for the next game.

Posted by: Schaeffer at March 24, 2017 01:42 PM (X9LT2)

213 Hand and glove is like dick in ass right?

Posted by: Under Fire at March 24, 2017 01:42 PM (ymRuQ)

214 "186 Wouldn't a full repeal today leave a lot of people in this systems ass hanging out ?
Posted by: willow at March 24, 2017 01:13 PM (R7cwD) "

The short answer is yes and that's demonstrably true.

This bill was meant to avoid that. They won't pass any other interim measures.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 24, 2017 01:42 PM (OFxPz)

215 I love the smell of failure theatre in the morning.

Posted by: Lurking Moron at March 24, 2017 01:42 PM (1L9V9)

216 Trump knows when a deal ain't worth it.

Posted by: MAGA at March 24, 2017 01:42 PM (A4HOq)

217
The main reason I want to see Ryancare fail, is because that will end the discussion, they will claim they killed obamacare while doing nothing but funding more of their cronies.

And we will get the bill.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 01:42 PM (ODxAs)

218 205 Like Tom Cotton said: We don't need to get it fast, we need to get it right.

Bingo. Rushing through bad legislation just to hit a self-imposed deadline is bad business. The GOPe has taken over seven years to develop a new healthcare paradigm. A few week, month, or even a year delay means nothing at this point. Forcing those who put you in office to eat a second crap sandwich except with more entrenched sauce means everything.

Get it done right. Take a year to develop and share the model. Just get it done before midterms so that you still have the votes needed.

And fire Ryan's Team. They recruit from the wrong city.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 24, 2017 01:41 PM (1CroS)

=====================

I think it was Coolidge who said:

"Better to kill a good bill than pass a bad one."

I like the federal government erring on the side of caution.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:43 PM (ELUpj)

219 i know i'm dreaming. but i wish one of Trumps 1st acts was to EO a For All America deal. That all legislation passed All citizens must comply with. inclsuing Legislators govt officials and workers and unions.

perhaps if Everyone had a stake in this BS they would think thrice about implemtneting constant crap of the average joe.

Posted by: willow at March 24, 2017 01:43 PM (R7cwD)

220 Can't the Administration and Congress still kill off Obamacare in other ways? Funding cuts, regulatory actions, Obama-style non-enforcement, no more marketing?

Posted by: Zombiecare at March 24, 2017 01:43 PM (qYCgM)

221 A presidential term is like a very long baseball season. You win some, you lose some...

True enough. Which is why I'm not overly concerned, though the leftist spin will be apocalyptic, as usual.

Having said that, there has to be some sort of free market solution that both conservatives and RINOs can stand behind... or else it is O'care or some simulacrum thereof by default.

Posted by: Skookumchuk at March 24, 2017 01:43 PM (/WPPJ)

222 Congressman Louie Gohmert said 'We promised to repeal it. This bill does not keep that promise.' If Louie Gohmert says something stinks, it stinks. Truth is, the GOPe never meant to do anything about ubmamacare. They are just the same as democrats, and hey, it ain't about healthcare, it's about control. Always was.

Posted by: Eromero at March 24, 2017 01:43 PM (zLDYs)

223 >>f obamacare crashes and burns it's still obamacare failing. The people hurt the worst aren't Trump voters. They're self interested non-paying consumers of the fruits of producers.

Oh yes they are. Medicaid expansion took place in 31 states and many of those are either Republican states or places like Michigan and Ohio.

It is a false assumption to keep thinking that only Democrats are affected by Obamacare collapsing. It will take down lots of people and could cause structural damage to the insurance industry. There is no guarantee whatsoever and I consider it unlikely that an Obamacare collapse will lead to some wondrous free market solution. Seems a lot more likely that we will see more government intervention which is what the designers of Obamacare wanted all along.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 01:43 PM (/tuJf)

224 Wait. Ace has a car?

Posted by: L, Elle at March 24, 2017 01:43 PM (c3AZU)

225 Trump, Pence and Ryan have worked hand and glove on this bill.

If it fails it has nothing to do with them.

Once the vote fails, you will have a list of who is responsible. Then they can all give their deflection, er, excuses on why they stuck it to the American people.

I look forward to that conversation because it ends badly for these frauds.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 24, 2017 01:39 PM (OFxPz)

We are like mirror images in our feelings on this bill. I'm black on the right side, you're black on the left side.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 01:43 PM (LTHVh)

226 Related, when did Consumer Reports go Prog? I just subscribed to do some car research and they're lobbying their customers to prevent Repeal.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards

_______

I would argue they've always being Prog

I'll save you the subscription. Buy Toyota/Lexus

Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 01:43 PM (mKRm7)

227 209
Repeal of ObamaCare was a big vote booster for the GOP because people are really hurting. It's the equivalent of a MASSIVE tax increase on the middle class, normally middle of the road voters were voting R because of it

If the GOP can't fix this crisis, why are they voting Republican?

Also, at certain point, people are going to demand Single Payer, even people normally with a conservative bent.

I see that being the more likely scenario if ObamaCare fails
Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 01:41 PM (mKRm7)

======================

Possible.

I certainly hope not.

Where is Hari Seldon when you need him?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:44 PM (ELUpj)

228 I think it was Coolidge who said:

"Better to kill a good bill than pass a bad one."

I like the federal government erring on the side of caution.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Oooh, that's another good dream. Up there with the non-infected Pamela Anderson one.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 24, 2017 01:44 PM (zsHGH)

229 ObamaCare is an Alien face hugger on the face of America. It may take time to get rid of.

When you get rid of it it leaves a surprise inside.

----

i'm feeling better already

Posted by: Kane at March 24, 2017 01:44 PM (oGRue)

230 Once the vote fails, you will have a list of who is responsible. Then
they can all give their deflection, er, excuses on why they stuck it to
the American people.

I look forward to that conversation because it ends badly for these frauds.
---
Among the 17% of the nation that supports Trumpcare.

Among the rest of us (the vast moajority), not so much.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn at March 24, 2017 01:44 PM (3Liv/)

231 ...it would be very difficult even for Democrats, let alone soft Republicans, to vote against a bill that made the issues simple...

That is why they want to do a repeal and replace in one bill. Otherwise they can't hide the taxes and the targeted spending.

Posted by: Ok at March 24, 2017 01:44 PM (K2SnJ)

232 188 The only thing I'm pretty confident of is if this does go down to defeat it won't get brought up again this year or tax cuts won't.

*****************************************

I never understood why Trump seems to believe phase 2 and 3 would get passed after this one. Sounds too "We need to pass amnesty first and then we'll strengthen our borders"
Posted by: Captain FartsAStorm at March 24, 2017 01:38 PM (Ze4Jj)

Trump never understood that the question is not what the Feds do to Health Insurance...

Its not the actions themselves.... its that they are involved AT ALL.

Posted by: Don Q. at March 24, 2017 01:45 PM (NgKpN)

233 Where is Hari Seldon when you need him?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Where's The Mule?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 24, 2017 01:45 PM (zsHGH)

234 It is a false assumption to keep thinking that only Democrats are affected by Obamacare collapsing.
Posted by: JackStraw
________

This is what I find maddening, ObamaCare "collapsing" means people that pay for their insurance pay a lot more

The people on the dole don't give a shit, no one in cancelling their health insurance.

Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 01:45 PM (mKRm7)

235 224 Wait. Ace has a car?
Jon Voight used to own it.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 24, 2017 01:45 PM (ymRuQ)

236 228
Oooh, that's another good dream. Up there with the non-infected Pamela Anderson one.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 24, 2017 01:44 PM (zsHGH)

===================

Coolidge was just a dream?!!?!?!?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:45 PM (ELUpj)

237 this bill eliminates fines for those who do not purchase insurance, and subsidies to those who do. tax credits will be based on age, not income. increase in taxes on high-earners and health care cos will be repealed. it ends medicaid expansion, imposes work requirements on beneficiaries. blocks PlannedP fed payments.

so, what is wrong with the above ?

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 01:46 PM (+JCjY)

238 233 Where is Hari Seldon when you need him?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Where's The Mule?
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 24, 2017 01:45 PM (zsHGH)

==================

Wasn't that supposed to be Trump?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:46 PM (ELUpj)

239 we need to get it right.

Nonsense, the only "right" is to do away with all entitlements, they're dis-Constitutional, mathematically impossible and immoral.

This is all just creditors jockeying before the bankruptcy court.
Which is better than HRCWNBPOTUS pre-civil war but that's all it is.

Posted by: DaveA at March 24, 2017 01:46 PM (FhXTo)

240 221 A presidential term is like a very long baseball season. You win some, you lose some...

---

Can't wait to win one

Posted by: Washington Senators at March 24, 2017 01:46 PM (oGRue)

241 Oooh, that's another good dream. Up there with the non-infected Pamela Anderson one.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards

Aim higher

Posted by: Rick in SK at March 24, 2017 01:46 PM (FZYNt)

242 Take a look at which states takes the most federal money, are the heaviest into the Medicaid expansion and will be hurt by the Obamacare collapse.

Hint. This was a federal mandate and many of those states and districts are Republican.

If I was in one of those states I'd punch Meadows in the dick.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 24, 2017 01:46 PM (OFxPz)

243 224 Wait. Ace has a car?
Posted by: L, Elle at March 24, 2017 01:43 PM (c3AZU)

No one drives in New York, there's too much traffic.

Posted by: josephistan at March 24, 2017 01:47 PM (7HtZB)

244 Wait. Ace has a car?

Posted by: L, Elle at March 24, 2017 01:43 PM

I think it is the car the Beatles were singing about.

A euphemism, so to speak.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 24, 2017 01:47 PM (7CcnX)

245 I think they should vote. Everyone should be on record as being for or against. Then....then...publish what they voted on so we can all see who was for or against what.

Then we can all vote accordingly.

Posted by: Lily Formerly of HotAir (Now from AoSHQ)assassin in the night at March 24, 2017 01:47 PM (vivhj)

246 Oh! Its official!! My health insurance agent just e-mailed just to say he hates Paul Ryan...He was responding to my e-mail of the whistle blower story??

Ever see a completely unhinged insurance agent?

Yeesh.

Posted by: dananjcon at March 24, 2017 01:47 PM (WLK0w)

247 198 Related, when did Consumer Reports go Prog? I just
subscribed to do some car research and they're lobbying their customers
to prevent Repeal.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 24, 2017 01:40 PM (zsHGH)

CR's went left long ago. When they started rating items based on how "green" they were instead of their quality and function I dropped my subscription with a nasty letter.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 24, 2017 01:47 PM (mpXpK)

248 For the people who are wondering why they don't just pass the repeal bill Obama vetoed, my understanding is that it was more kabuki theatre. It doesn't pass muster procedurally; they knew that; it didn't matter, because they knew Obama would veto it anyway.

Posted by: gewa76 at March 24, 2017 01:47 PM (ZuujH)

249 ...non-infected Pamela Anderson...

Didn't they cure her hepatitis C?

Pamela Anderson has announced she's been cured of hepatitis C after living with the virus for 16 years.

Posted by: Ok at March 24, 2017 01:47 PM (K2SnJ)

250 http://bit.ly/2mZDmHA
----
Think Tank: Cyber Firm at Center of Russian Hacking Charges Misread Data

Posted by: EVLINC! at March 24, 2017 01:47 PM (y3aQB)

251 If I was in one of those states I'd punch Meadows in the dick.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul is certain to gain the support of Paul.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 01:47 PM (LTHVh)

252 "Better to kill a good bill than pass a bad one."

******

I'm not so sure that is a binary option.

Posted by: Muldoon at March 24, 2017 01:48 PM (wPiJc)

253 86 Yeah, I can get goners just fine, why do you...ooohhh. I read your post too quickly. Never mind.

Posted by: Clint Howard with a face like a baboon's ass at March 24, 2017 01:48 PM (TDJsa)

254 186 Wouldn't a full repeal today leave a lot of people in this systems ass hanging out ?
Posted by: willow at March 24, 2017 01:13 PM (R7cwD)

Step 1. Pass full repeal, effective on the 2017 policy expiration date/ enrollment period where everyone has to sign up for new policies anyway, no matter what changes or doesn't change.

Step 2. Between now and the 4th quarter of 2017, markets adjust and determine prices, possibly even electing to go back to policies that covered more and cost less but were deemed illegal under Obamacare, making coverage affordable for millions of people who lost coverage and reducing costs for millions more who are paying skyrocketing premiums or signed up for a more expensive Obamacare policy due to coercion and threats. Sit back and watch as all the insurers who left the market over the past 7 years reenter and compete.

People keep pretending this is complicated. Obamacare or no Obamacare, everyone's policy expires at the end of the year.

The only downside to full repeal is that the shiftless, lazy fucks currently employed in all the Obamacare agencies that sprung up will have to go back to collected a government check for doing nothing at home instead of driving to work occasionally to collect a check for doing nothing. That and all the 3rd party "navigator" scams would shutter and they'd have to go back to selling fake timeshares.

Posted by: Damiano at March 24, 2017 01:48 PM (n3oGs)

255 "We need to get it right"

Written on many gravestones on people over 90.

Get what right? What is your solution, specifically?

Cotton, et al are just making excuses.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 24, 2017 01:48 PM (OFxPz)

256 Coolidge was just a dream?!!?!?!?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

It feels like he was...

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 24, 2017 01:48 PM (zsHGH)

257 I think it is the car the Beatles were singing about.

A euphemism, so to speak.
Posted by: Skandia Recluse

He blew his mind out in a car?

Posted by: Rick in SK at March 24, 2017 01:48 PM (FZYNt)

258
Related, when did Consumer Reports go Prog? I just subscribed to do some car research and they're lobbying their customers to prevent Repeal.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards

They were advocating for single payer thirty years ago.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 24, 2017 01:48 PM (IqV8l)

259 >>>Trump should tell Ryan he needs to give the Speaker position to someone who can lead.
Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at March 24, 2017 01:11 PM (i0ykY)

Ooh, burn.

Posted by: m at March 24, 2017 01:48 PM (Gqgs8)

260 The problem with the bill is that, among other things, at Trump voter age 60 and making $30,000 per year would pay about half his income in health insurance. That voter will vote for Chelsea Clinton as long as she promises to bring back Obamacare and Trump and the Reps will lose, bigly.

Posted by: bjwubbs at March 24, 2017 01:49 PM (j8gkg)

261 Rynocare is brain dead.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 24, 2017 01:49 PM (Nwg0u)

262 ...It doesn't pass muster procedurally...

Who cares? Pass and sign it anyway. Pass it and let the games begin.

Posted by: Ok at March 24, 2017 01:49 PM (K2SnJ)

263
so, what is wrong with the above ? <<<<<<<<<

For starters, its still socialist healthcare, none of those things plus the rest never should have been a law anyway.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 01:49 PM (ODxAs)

264 Dems passed it. Most hate it. But R's can't do anything about it even though they control everything.

Proof that elections matter.

When you elect Democrats.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 01:49 PM (3myMJ)

265 It will take down lots of people and could cause structural damage to the insurance industry.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

They make money by taking a small percentage of every dollar. The higher the premium the more money they receive. They have zero interest in controlling health care costs. In fact, just the opposite.

It's time for an entirely different paradigm.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 24, 2017 01:49 PM (ZFUt7)

266 Ok, Pamela Anderson (1993 vintage) is back on the table, then.

I'm going to kill my subscription too. I just signed up for a month for some research. I'm not finding the info I want about the cars I'm looking at anyway.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 24, 2017 01:50 PM (zsHGH)

267 once obamacare "law" passed, it was implemented in stateges. i think they are trying to do a repal the same way ?

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 01:50 PM (+JCjY)

268 I'm almost convinced the Repub Congress leadership is trying to lose the House in 2018, Senate too, if they could do it.

Posted by: MAGA at March 24, 2017 01:50 PM (A4HOq)

269 You know, shell out the house bill and put in a repeal based on reconciliation by keeping the original house bill title?

HAHAHAHAH!!!! Pretty devious!

Posted by: Max Power at March 24, 2017 01:50 PM (q177U)

270 242 Take a look at which states takes the most federal money, are the heaviest into the Medicaid expansion and will be hurt by the Obamacare collapse.

Hint. This was a federal mandate and many of those states and districts are Republican.

If I was in one of those states I'd punch Meadows in the dick.
Posted by: Marcus T at March 24, 2017 01:46 PM (OFxPz

===================

"First, Gruber's results suggest that people who were already eligible for Medicaid before the ACA have been inappropriately categorized as though they are newly eligible because of the ACA. This is important because the ACA requires the federal government to pay a lot more of the cost of covering newly eligible enrollees than it does for those eligible for Medicaid before the ACA. Thus, it appears the federal government is paying a lot more than it should be and that states are paying far less. "

http://tinyurl.com/kzyk668

The problems brought up by repeal are less worrisome than some people make it out to be.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:50 PM (ELUpj)

271 I remember in the '80's Consumer Reports rated the Chevrolet Corvette poorly due to body rust through. It's almost like Ford paid them off or something...

Posted by: Under Fire at March 24, 2017 01:51 PM (ymRuQ)

272 BarkyCare just needs to be repealed, in toto. Nothing complicated about that. If the filibuster has to go to do that then that's fine. It's far more important to repeal BarkyCare - actually repeal the whole anti-American piece of shit - than to preserve the filibuster (which the dems are going to nuke at the first chance, anyway).

This ain't rocket science. This ain't even model rocket science. BarkyCare is an affront to America and everything this nation was founded on and stands for. It needs to go; not go in part, not be amended, TO GO IN FULL, be totally repealed. That's it.

And if Trump and the GOP can't do this then they can all blow my dog (in turns). I don't really care to even listen to any bullshit about this. BarkyCare is an offense to America and must be killed and buried. End of story.

And let me just say that it is beyond offensive to have some minor amendments to BarkyCare offered as any sort of a "repeal". Fuck the idiots who have been trying to push this. If they like amending BarkyCare then they should take pride in their collaborating amendment procedure. But a "repeal" ... it doesn't even rise to the level of retarded humor.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2017 01:51 PM (zc3Db)

273 "Russin', sussin', fussin', flippin', flappin' snarl."

Posted by: Paul Ryan in a rowboat still trying to untangle his fishing reel at March 24, 2017 01:51 PM (wPiJc)

274 @Bertram Cabot, Jr

Really? Good God, I had no idea. I just used them for car and electronics reviews. Gah, I feel dirty.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 24, 2017 01:51 PM (zsHGH)

275 For starters, its still socialist healthcare, none of those things plus the rest never should have been a law anyway.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 01:49 PM (ODxAs)

we can throw slogans around all day, but the fact is, it has to go through a legislative process

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 01:51 PM (+JCjY)

276 A presidential term is like a very long baseball season. You win some, you lose some...

---

Can't wait to win one
Posted by: Washington Senators at March 24, 2017 01:46 PM (oGRue)

Gorsuch's gonna be confirmed within a month, and the Dems may be stupid enough to force the nuclear option. That's a big win.

Posted by: gewa76 at March 24, 2017 01:51 PM (ZuujH)

277 This was done too quickly with too little genuine persuasion or argumentation. I think a good part of populism is that people want to be consulted on these big moves, and do not just want our cadre of leaders telling us what they have decided on our behalf.

First the EO travel ban and now this.

You can't just wing it and come up with stuff on the spot.

And FFS, get yer ducks in a row before you try to shoot 'em with a single shot rifle.

Posted by: The Political Hat at March 24, 2017 01:51 PM (rUIbB)

278 Wait a minuite, Ace.

You had to be, what, 6 years old at the time of the Perot/Gore debate on NAFTA ?

Explain.

Posted by: Sphynx at March 24, 2017 01:52 PM (OZmbA)

279 A presidential term is like a very long baseball season. You win some, you lose some, you have streaks going both ways. There is no such thing as a perfect season. You just try to get enough wins to make the playoffs.
I especially don't buy it now, given that the "newscycle" is now about six minutes long.
This was done too quickly with too little genuine persuasion or argumentation. I think a good part of populism is that people want to be consulted on these big moves, and do not just want our cadre of leaders telling us what they have decided on our behalf.
I want more time to debate. Maybe this actually is a damn fine bill. Might well be. But I really would like more information and more debate.

************

All of that.

Posted by: The Grooveline at March 24, 2017 01:52 PM (fi5nC)

280 Only the GOP would have the audacity to pull a failure theater stunt like this while they control all three branches of government.

Posted by: Lurking Moron at March 24, 2017 01:52 PM (1L9V9)

281 Would people love the Medicaid Expansion so much if it were accompanied by a tax increase large enough to actually pay for it?

Posted by: V the K at March 24, 2017 01:52 PM (O7MnT)

282 Explain.

Posted by: Sphynx at March 24, 2017 01:52 PM (OZmbA)

Youtube?

Posted by: Off the reservation at March 24, 2017 01:52 PM (EoAgi)

283 This would be winning the same way the mouse wins when he grabs the cheese in the trap.

Posted by: OCBill at March 24, 2017 01:53 PM (df+Zi)

284 Wait a minuite, Ace.

You had to be, what, 6 years old at the time of the Perot/Gore debate on NAFTA ?

Explain.

====

he watched re-runs

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 01:53 PM (+JCjY)

285 They should focus on bringing cost down through price transparency, competition and moving away from third party payment systems except for catastrophic illness.
=======================
government subsidies increase the cost of a product or service not decrease it. See the cost of college education over the last 35 years.

If you are going to rig the market by subsidizing it you should rig it to prevent price gouging. But they don't because the donors want to be able to gouge. The dems want to tell their clients we got you health care, and the repub want to tell their clients look - its going to end up just like college tuition. . . .

Posted by: simplemind at March 24, 2017 01:53 PM (xVRrG)

286 276
Gorsuch's gonna be confirmed within a month, and the Dems may be stupid enough to force the nuclear option. That's a big win.
Posted by: gewa76 at March 24, 2017 01:51 PM (ZuujH)

====================

You know what would be hilarious?

12:00 Democratic Senators invoke cloture.
1:00 McConnell nukes filibuster
2:00 News strikes that RBG and Breyer are eloping and retiring.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:53 PM (ELUpj)

287 One good thing might come out of this.

There's chatter this could be the end of Ryan's speakership.

Then again, we'll just get another RINO.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at March 24, 2017 01:53 PM (ul9CR)

288 I think it is the car the Beatles were singing about.

A euphemism, so to speak.

******

I would rather Ace have a silver hammer.

Posted by: Muldoon at March 24, 2017 01:53 PM (wPiJc)

289 281 Would people love the Medicaid Expansion so much if it were accompanied by a tax increase large enough to actually pay for it?
Posted by: V the K at March 24, 2017 01:52 PM (O7MnT)

================

Oddly enough...no. Many would not be happy with that.

Weird...

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:54 PM (ELUpj)

290 ...Wasn't that supposed to be Trump?...

No Trump is First Speaker. Obama would be The Mule.

Posted by: Ok at March 24, 2017 01:54 PM (K2SnJ)

291 correct me if im wrong, but medicaid expansion, came from Medicare funds, di it not ?

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 01:54 PM (+JCjY)

292 we can throw slogans around all day, but the fact is, it has to go through a legislative process <<<<

wait, you asked what was wrong and then called it a slogan. Obamacare is fundamentally bad at its core. It can't be fixed.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 01:54 PM (ODxAs)

293 Obviously ace owns a Smart car.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 24, 2017 01:55 PM (ymRuQ)

294 237 this bill eliminates fines for those who do not purchase insurance, and subsidies to those who do. tax credits will be based on age, not income. increase in taxes on high-earners and health care cos will be repealed. it ends medicaid expansion, imposes work requirements on beneficiaries. blocks PlannedP fed payments.

so, what is wrong with the above ?
Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 01:46 PM (+JCjY)

1. The costs of all federal agencies, employees, contractors and 3rd parties brought into existence with Obamacare will still have their costs added to insurance costs.
2. All the insurance agencies who left the market because Obamacare plans are stupid and giant money pits will stay gone.
3. The remaining insurers will go further underwater with these plans. The govement will continue to subsidize spiraling losses to insurers with hundreds of billions in new debt.
4. Consumers will watch premiums and deductibles continue to spiral upward while coverage and quality decrease.
....

I can keep going.

Posted by: Damiano at March 24, 2017 01:55 PM (n3oGs)

295 Ryan, row the boat a left. Hallelujah!

- Ryno hymn

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 24, 2017 01:55 PM (Nwg0u)

296 When have we really had a debate on anything?

Unless you consider a debate being the rubes watching paid shills define what the acceptable choices are on the boob tube.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 24, 2017 01:55 PM (4ErVI)

297 Trying to picture a Smart car with little messenger bags on the quarter panels makes me laugh too hard.

Posted by: IP at March 24, 2017 01:56 PM (hUtue)

298 But they had a bill !!! HR ...

... aw, fuck it. Who gives a shit. It's Lips and Assholes all the way down.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 24, 2017 01:56 PM (/BTP8)

299 It's far better for everyone Trump included that this very bad bill dies.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, who is now luxuriating in vast pools of winning! at March 24, 2017 01:56 PM (kXoT0)

300 If tax exempt plans were taxed to pay for it, nobody would notice, because the money is spent by the employer. And if the exemption were eliminated, the employee would probably not see it because the employer would simply adopt a lighter plan instead of cutting employee pay, like putting less cereal in the box instead of raising the price.

Posted by: bjwubbs at March 24, 2017 01:56 PM (j8gkg)

301 Remember the NAFTA debate? We had months of national debate on that. There was a famous televised debate on CNN (I think) between Ross Perot, taking the anti-NAFTA position, and Al Gore, taking the pro-NAFTA position. I had reservations, but I thought Gore won (certainly the pro-Clinton media thought he'd won).
I think maybe Gore won, but Perot's position was still right.

****************

Perot--he had charts and everything!1!

Ace must have been a precocious three year old.

Posted by: The Grooveline at March 24, 2017 01:56 PM (fi5nC)

302 Would people love the Medicaid Expansion so much if it were accompanied by a tax increase large enough to actually pay for it?
--
If you're productive, you're paying for this.

It may be through higher insurance rates.
It may be through higher taxes.
It may be through inflation.

But you're still getting screwed when government hands out free stuff to the unworthy.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn at March 24, 2017 01:56 PM (3Liv/)

303 Is there some kind of Constitutional clause that I don't know about that says that Congress may only have one try at repealing a previously passed law?

With the ACA continuing to make things worse, I can imagine it getting easier to rip out more of it in a single bill than now.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:22 PM (ELUpj)

We have to stop thinking "All or nothing..."

We have to stop thinking "half a loaf better than none..." which implies a done deal after this and no further action.

We have to start thinking "Step One this bill, then Step Two the next bill....."

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 01:56 PM (ujg0T)

304 Poor ace still trying to make "TrumpCare" happen.
It's RyanCare and everyone knows it.
The only person who is hurt by its failure is Ryan as speaker and the GOPe.
Not surprised you don't see that seeing as how you wrote Trump off as an idiot buffoon while he laid waste to Jeb! and 15 other opponents.

Posted by: Dancing Queen at March 24, 2017 01:57 PM (lZaEn)

305 ...while they control all three branches of government...

The GOPe would have controlled all three if Hillary had won.
GOPe loved Obama and already miss him.

Posted by: Ok at March 24, 2017 01:57 PM (K2SnJ)

306 FBN has the shit necked manatee on again.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 24, 2017 01:57 PM (ymRuQ)

307 Gee, you had 8 years to clean up this trailerload of cow poop. I expected less cow poop.

Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at March 24, 2017 01:57 PM (FtrY1)

308 Obamacare is a big screw you to anyone who is self employed, as well as people who have small businesses.

Instead of punishing people who are ambitious, maybe we should make life easier on them.

Posted by: shibumi at March 24, 2017 01:58 PM (FkAXz)

309 Slower in public just give these clowns more TV time with their red noses on. Get them out of the limelight and back to work usefully.

Posted by: DaveA at March 24, 2017 01:58 PM (FhXTo)

310 Why oh why is that idiot Karl Rove still given a soapbox on Fox?

I would rather watch paint dry, but the substitute news anchor chick is cute.

Posted by: anchorbabe fashion cop at March 24, 2017 01:58 PM (8iiMU)

311 Would people love the Medicaid Expansion so much if it were accompanied by a tax increase large enough to actually pay for it?

*****

Silly! Medicaid is paid for by taxpayers in the other 49 states. That's why we love it so much!

Posted by: Muldoon at March 24, 2017 01:58 PM (wPiJc)

312 TryanCare...we hardly knew ya.

Posted by: Lady in Black - Death to the Man Bun at March 24, 2017 01:58 PM (+FSld)

313 ...while they control all three branches of government...

Two branches. Three segments.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2017 01:58 PM (zc3Db)

314 If Trump is losing my support, I can't imagine how the rest of you feel.

Trump is betraying the trust of his biggest supporters. His rallies will soon be in high school gyms like Hillery's.

Posted by: Great Reagan's Deplorable Ghost at March 24, 2017 01:58 PM (DeU1P)

315 we can throw slogans around all day, but the fact is, it has to go through a legislative process <<<<

wait, you asked what was wrong and then called it a slogan. Obamacare is fundamentally bad at its core. It can't be fixed.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 01:54 PM (ODxAs)

i gave specific provisions, of a relacement bill

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 01:58 PM (+JCjY)

316 correct me if im wrong, but medicaid expansion, came from Medicare funds, di it not ?

----------------------------

First, the FedGov promised, under Obamacare, to foot the bill for the Medicaid explansion for, (I think) five years, and then the states were supposed to pay for it. (Everyone knew this was a lie and the subsidies would continue)

The tax that pays for Medicare/Medicaid was already insufficient to cover current liabilities, and so funding had to be raided from elsewhere.

To do what Obamacare promised would require doubling or tripling the tax, so it would be taking an amount out of each paycheck in the same neighborhood as FICA.

Posted by: V the K at March 24, 2017 01:58 PM (O7MnT)

317 This was done too quickly with too little genuine persuasion or argumentation.

"Quick! We have to pass this before the rubes catch on!"

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at March 24, 2017 01:59 PM (MZcWR)

318 303 We have to stop thinking "All or nothing..."

We have to stop thinking "half a loaf better than none..." which implies a done deal after this and no further action.

We have to start thinking "Step One this bill, then Step Two the next bill....."
Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 01:56 PM (ujg0T)

==================

Perhaps...phases?!?!?!

The biggest problem is that the Republican leadership in Congress just honestly isn't that trustworthy.

It's only a very small part of the Republican Party that thinks we'll get much out of Phase 2 or anything for Phase 3.

If the leadership had actually bothered trying to build trust with the base by, you know...not pushing for amnesty first legislation when the majority of the party wants border security first, then maybe more people would trust them.

But they don't.

It's not a patience issue. It's not a need by the base to have everything right now.

It's a trust issue.

If Congressional leadership wants to be trusted, then they should be trustworthy.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:59 PM (ELUpj)

319 Pamela Anderson has announced she's been cured of hepatitis C after living with the virus for 16 years.

Wow, that's big news. I've got to hit the gym!

Posted by: Crusader at March 24, 2017 02:00 PM (ewSN2)

320 i gave specific provisions, of a relacement bill

If that was all that was in it, it would probably pass.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 02:00 PM (LTHVh)

321 Ouch. Rough rollout.

Posted by: Exec who pitched New Coke at March 24, 2017 02:00 PM (TDJsa)

322 Two branches. Three segments.

They can suck my segment.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 24, 2017 02:00 PM (/BTP8)

323 To do what Obamacare promised would require doubling or tripling the tax, so it would be taking an amount out of each paycheck in the same neighborhood as FICA.
Posted by: V the K at March 24, 2017 01:58 PM (O7MnT)

****************

Backloaded like a BOSS!

Posted by: The Grooveline at March 24, 2017 02:01 PM (fi5nC)

324 316 First, the FedGov promised, under Obamacare, to foot the bill for the Medicaid explansion for, (I think) five years, and then the states were supposed to pay for it. (Everyone knew this was a lie and the subsidies would continue)

The tax that pays for Medicare/Medicaid was already insufficient to cover current liabilities, and so funding had to be raided from elsewhere.

To do what Obamacare promised would require doubling or tripling the tax, so it would be taking an amount out of each paycheck in the same neighborhood as FICA.
Posted by: V the K at March 24, 2017 01:58 PM (O7MnT)

====================

It goes from 100% fed funded to 90% fed funded.

"Well, that's not very much."

Tell that to California.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:01 PM (ELUpj)

325 Perhaps repeal/replace would be better done just before the mid-terms but taking effect after. Because everyone knows the switchover will be a major clusterfuck no matter how good the eventual outcome.

Also, if having government fingers all over healthcare/insurance was such a bad idea, why does this bill seem to perpetuate that?

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 02:01 PM (3myMJ)

326 I'm of the opinion that the Senate Republicans when running on repeal and replace implicitly stated they will nuke the filibuster to do it. There was no hedging on their part.

Perhaps we should be leaning on them.

Posted by: MAGA at March 24, 2017 02:01 PM (A4HOq)

327
If they're keeping the preexisting condition provision, the new version is going to be as shitawful expensive as O'Care.

I want to see deregulation, free markets, competition, some kind of check on overzealous malpractice lawsuits, built in cash discounts.

Posted by: Sphynx at March 24, 2017 02:01 PM (OZmbA)

328 Obamacare is a big screw you to anyone who is self employed, as well as people who have small businesses.

Instead of punishing people who are ambitious, maybe we should make life easier on them.

Posted by: shibumi
_______

Yea, that why I'm not in the boat of "let's take a few years to make sure we get the perfect bill first!!"

I will say just letting me have the ability to write off ALL out of pocket medical expenses and premiums would probably be a bigger win than any other reform the GOP could come up with.

My state income taxes work that way, seems federal could as well

Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 02:01 PM (mKRm7)

329 >>>If Congressional leadership wants to be trusted, then they should be trustworthy.

It's just precious that they seem to think we'll forget how many times they've betrayed us and let us down. They think we're as dumb as Charlie Sheen's girlfriends.

Posted by: V the K at March 24, 2017 02:02 PM (O7MnT)

330 i gave specific provisions, of a relacement bill <<<<

And what is wrong with that is that it is still part of a destructive socialist healthcare law. It can't be replaced, it will never stop, it doesn't sleep or eat, it will hunt you down until you are dead.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 02:02 PM (ODxAs)

331 If Congressional leadership wants to be trusted, then they should be trustworthy.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:59 PM (ELUpj)

_____________

We have learned our lesson and will do better next time.

Trust us.

Posted by: Congressional Leaders at March 24, 2017 02:02 PM (vivhj)

332 i gave specific provisions, of a relacement bill

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 01:58 PM (+JCjY)

BarkyCare is un-Constitutional. The federal government has not the power to dictate individual health insurance. It's not just the insane mandate that's the problem. It's the whole idea that's in conflict with the Constitution. individual health insurance and health care are state issues. The only business the federal goernment has in all that is making regular interstate commerce of such. Any "replacement" of an un-Constitutional bill with another un-Constitutional bill is unacceptable. Period.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2017 02:02 PM (zc3Db)

333 "We don't need to get it fast, we need to get it right"

Said the people working on this for eight years, who ad nauseam touted the "countless" times they passed a repeal bill.

You have to appreciate the irony. And the dishonesty.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 24, 2017 02:02 PM (OFxPz)

334 327
If they're keeping the preexisting condition provision, the new version is going to be as shitawful expensive as O'Care.

I want to see deregulation, free markets, competition, some kind of check on overzealous malpractice lawsuits, built in cash discounts.
Posted by: Sphynx at March 24, 2017 02:01 PM (OZmbA)

===================

If Republicans didn't want to work on this now, perhaps they could have set up a special committee to find answers to healthcare that are working in the nation.

Solutions that are driving down prices, making doctors and patients happy.

And then used that report as a basis for work.

...Hmm....

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:02 PM (ELUpj)

335 I am easy to please, just let me buy the insurance I want from someone willing to offer it. Every single other aspect of this debate is about theft.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 02:03 PM (LTHVh)

336 If only they had already came up with a plan, voted on it, and hyped that shit for a year.

That would have been smart.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 24, 2017 02:03 PM (/BTP8)

337
I am far from poor. But on my upper middle class street with business owners, entrepreneurs, doctors, and an insurance salesman who do I believe has the highest disposable income right now?

Who has twice the acreage... who added the most sq footage to his home the past eight years, who has the largest boat, the biggest swimming pool?

Not the doctor, not the business person, not the entrepreneur. The guy who is getting a couple cents on the dollar commission on the ever expanding cost of health insurance.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 24, 2017 02:03 PM (ZFUt7)

338 331 We have learned our lesson and will do better next time.

Trust us.
Posted by: Congressional Leaders at March 24, 2017 02:02 PM (vivhj)

====================

Just follow through one time.

A single time.

And then we'll start giving you some more slack.

Can you do this one time?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:03 PM (ELUpj)

339 I am easy to please, just let me buy the insurance I want from someone willing to offer it. Every single other aspect of this debate is about theft.

Bravo!

Posted by: Crusader at March 24, 2017 02:04 PM (ewSN2)

340 Trying to picture a Smart car with little messenger bags on the quarter panels makes me laugh too hard.
=====================

Off topic

there's a funny show on Amazon Prime its called
The Grand Tour. It's the guys from TOP GEAR that used to be on the BBC.

Its a car show, travelogue with montey python humor and its surprisingly enough not PC, for the most part.

Saw an episode where they played Battle ship using cranes to drop SMART CARs (something called a GeeWhiz?) onto other cars. Pretty funny. Other episode entitled Enviro MENTAL - the raced three cars, one made from mud and hay, one made of flowers, and one made from the bones and skin of dead animals.

Posted by: simplemind at March 24, 2017 02:04 PM (xVRrG)

341 OT: Shia LaBologna has lost his flag again.

http://tinyurl.com/kawf8rv

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 24, 2017 02:04 PM (Nwg0u)

342 Trump is submitting his last bid on this. It's time for the owner to make a decision. If the owner chooses the other bid, then Trump will wait until the new owner finds out the property is shit and too expensive to maintain.

Then Trump will swoop in and make that owner a dirt-cheap offer and the new owner will jump at the chance just to get the POS off his books.

Posted by: Soona at March 24, 2017 02:04 PM (Fmupd)

343 There's no need for all this stage-managing and conflict avoidance and top-down black box policy making. Conflict and argument are good. Broken bones heal stronger. Let's not be afraid to get into a rumble about something pretty important.

This isn't a Viking Saga. There are no epic heroes, there are no Valkyries sweeping the dead up to Valhalla. This isn't high drama.

This is the political process. Let's just work through the once-normal political process of dueling op-eds, televised debates, and exchanges of white papers.

RTFBYMFMF

This.

Have we all forgotten how the legislative process is supposed to work? Person(s) submits legislation. The other legislators yelp at it in public and work to amend it. Yes, yes, of course there are back room deals and horse trading and it's messy but that's okay because, get this, other people get to have their say too.

Then when the bill is ready to be passed, which the party putting it forward knows it will pass because the House Whip has done s/h/it's job and secured the votes ahead of time, then the vote is held.

Dear GOP:

YOU'RE MAKING ME MISS TIP O'NEILL YOU JACKHOLES PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER!

Spitefully, alex

Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 24, 2017 02:04 PM (mf5HN)

344 I am far from poor. But on my upper middle class street...

*****

I miss Mr. Moo Moo.

Posted by: Muldoon at March 24, 2017 02:04 PM (wPiJc)

345 If Congressional leadership wants to be trusted, then they should be trustworthy.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

True that.

Off to lunch.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 24, 2017 02:04 PM (zsHGH)

346 OT: Shia LaBologna has lost his flag again.

He doesn't go for the flag waving.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 24, 2017 02:05 PM (eauMe)

347 Perhaps...phases?!?!?!

The biggest problem is that the Republican leadership in Congress just honestly isn't that trustworthy.

It's only a very small part of the Republican Party that thinks we'll get much out of Phase 2 or anything for Phase 3.

If the leadership had actually bothered trying to build trust with the base by, you know...not pushing for amnesty first legislation when the majority of the party wants border security first, then maybe more people would trust them.

But they don't.

It's not a patience issue. It's not a need by the base to have everything right now.

It's a trust issue.

If Congressional leadership wants to be trusted, then they should be trustworthy.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 01:59 PM (ELUpj)

Let me humbly suggest a better way to look at this:

The left didn't get to Obamunist Care outright. They first had Medicare, Medicaid expansion, Medicare Part D, covering minor out of pocket stuff like birth control, covering this for this group, and that for that group, etc.

Trump is a wheeler-dealer. We all knew that. He wants to at least partially repeal and declare some kind of victory.

How to handle that?

Get to work on a better bill that repeals more Obamunist crap, implements more market forces, brings health insurance costs down, avoids the "moral hazards" from "Pre-existing condition" caterwauling to demanding minor things like birth control be covered by insurance (gee-what would oil changes and car insurance cost if oil changes were paid by 3rd party car insurance?), and so on.

And pass it and let Trump bask in the glory of signing THAT.

And so on, and so on, and so on.

Yes, dishonest Demunists and wimpy RINOs / Cuckservatives / Vichy Republicans will always be in the way.

And frankly, as much as a disappointment Ryan and Yertle have been, I see the Maine Lady, Pansy Grahamnesty, John McStain, and THAT crowd as far worse.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 02:05 PM (ujg0T)

348 >>If the leadership had actually bothered trying to build trust with the base by, you know...not pushing for amnesty first legislation when the majority of the party wants border security first, then maybe more people would trust them.

It was the House under Boehner that refused to even take up the amnesty bill so that's not a real complaint. If anything, that should have increased the trust.

This stuff was talked about all last year in the House. There were something like 200 individual committee hearings on this issue so the complaint that it hasn't been discussed is not true and relies on the fact that most people don't actually watch what is going on in DC.

The bill has been posted online for 2 weeks now and almost nobody has read it. The very few amendments that were made dealt with things like removing the 10 mandatory things that must be covered in any insurance plan so it became even more conservative.

It's pretty funny reading the comments here while watching the Democrats in the House freaking out about how this bill rips healthcare from tens of millions and cuts over a trillion in taxes. Somebody is wrong.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:05 PM (/tuJf)

349 339 I am easy to please, just let me buy the insurance I want from someone willing to offer it. Every single other aspect of this debate is about theft.

Bravo!
Posted by: Crusader at March 24, 2017 02:04 PM (ewSN2)

====================

"No, you need maternity coverage. And mental health coverage. And pre-natal coverage. And prostate cancer prevention. And breast cancer prevention. Otherwise it's not healthcare."
-ACA

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:05 PM (ELUpj)

350 "Any "replacement" of an un-Constitutional bill with another un-Constitutional bill is unacceptable. Period."

The current bill is unacceptable. But there it is and we all live under it.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 02:05 PM (3myMJ)

351 The people most negatively affected by this bills failure are small businesses. Also know as the main economic growth engine.

Hence the markets reaction.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 24, 2017 02:05 PM (OFxPz)

352 Elijah Cummings ranting and raving on the house floor.

Spiting too I think....

Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2017 02:05 PM (Enq6K)

353 I also worry that the Freedom Caucus might just make Trump decide to cobble together Democrats and moderate Republicans and leave them behind.

This is a pretty big fuck you to Trump, whatever you think of the bill itself.

If Trump feels he can't work with the TruCons, he might simply start ignoring them.

Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 02:05 PM (mKRm7)

354 Something something watching legislation being made something something sausage.

Posted by: filbert at March 24, 2017 02:06 PM (s5o+q)

355 224 Wait. Ace has a car?
Posted by: L, Elle at March 24, 2017 01:43 PM (c3AZU)

Yeah, replace Punxsutawney Phil driving a car in Groundhog Day with an ewok and you get an idea of what that looks like.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 24, 2017 02:06 PM (RD7QR)

356 To do what Obamacare promised would require doubling or tripling the
tax, so it would be taking an amount out of each paycheck in the same
neighborhood as FICA.

Posted by: V the K at March 24, 2017 01:58 PM (O7MnT)

that would explain why we cannot have a TAX CUT (love those two words) while obamacare is still intact

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 02:06 PM (+JCjY)

357 If Trump is losing my support, I can't imagine how the rest of you feel.

Trump is betraying the trust of his biggest supporters. His rallies will soon be in high school gyms like Hillery's.

Posted by: Great Reagan's Deplorable Ghost at March 24, 2017 01:58 PM (DeU1P)

17% nationwide support for Trumpcare.
*Maybe* that's everyone who voted for him in the primary, just by numbers, but given the vocal support for Trumpcare is coming entirely from the GOPe uber alles crowd, that seems unlikely.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn at March 24, 2017 02:06 PM (3Liv/)

358 >>>If they're keeping the preexisting condition provision, the new version is going to be as shitawful expensive as O'Care.

Yeah, and yet the politicians can never seem to explain using a simple analogy. "Coverage for pre-existing conditions is like letting people by full car insurance after they've wrecked the car."

Of course, our Idiocracy supposedly *demands* coverage for pre-existing conditions. My answer would be, "All right, here's what's going to happen. We're going to make a list of pre-existing conditions that insurance companies don't have to cover. If people show up with those conditions wanting coverage, they get MedicAid. They'll pay market rates for MedicAid coverage and, by they way, we're increasing the MedicAid tax 50% so you have some skin in the game beyond virtue signaling."

Posted by: V the K at March 24, 2017 02:06 PM (O7MnT)

359
American Hospital Association (who is behind them) commercial: Keep Barrycare or 20 million people will die

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 24, 2017 02:07 PM (493sH)

360 Ace if it makes you feel better on the Pratt link the sidebar, his tweeted link doesn't work either. No clue if it works if you aren't signed into FB like you are. I did actually go directly to his FB page though to read it and its pretty funny.

Posted by: buzzion at March 24, 2017 02:07 PM (z/Ubi)

361 I am easy to please, just let me buy the insurance I want from someone willing to offer it. Every single other aspect of this debate is about theft.

-
We prefer the term "social justice".

- The Ryno-Donk Alliance for Social Justice

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 24, 2017 02:07 PM (Nwg0u)

362
Let's face it, the healthcare industry overcharges. They play the game of maxing out what they can get from insurance, charging those with good insurance a premium for the same care and products they give discounts to medicare recipients for.

Greedy bastards. (sorry to you doctors out there)

Posted by: Sphynx at March 24, 2017 02:08 PM (OZmbA)

363 If they're keeping the preexisting condition provision, the new version is going to be as shitawful expensive as O'Care.

*******************

Listened to a lot of variants of Trump on healthcare--I think that is one provision he has consistently supported. I could be wrong.

Posted by: The Grooveline at March 24, 2017 02:08 PM (fi5nC)

364 @GodfreyElfwick

Canada has made criticism of Islam illegal. A proud day. This is a positive and #progressive decision I'm sure nobody will live to regret.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 24, 2017 02:08 PM (GgzGa)

365 "No, you need maternity coverage. And mental health coverage. And pre-natal coverage. And prostate cancer prevention. And breast cancer prevention. Otherwise it's not healthcare."
-ACA

Also coverage for sex changes. Not because you'll have one, but because the LGBT are a big donor bloc

Posted by: V the K at March 24, 2017 02:08 PM (O7MnT)

366 327
If they're keeping the preexisting condition provision, the new version is going to be as shitawful expensive as O'Care.

Limbaugh has tried, but the concept of "Moral Hazard" REALLY has to be rammed home to people.

Already under Obamunistcare, people could have gaps up to three months of unpaid premiums and still be "Covered". Which meant those who honestly paid their premiums monthly had to take up the slack for people gaming the system.

As for the truly sick with pre-existing conditions that could not get private insurance in anyway, Medi-Caid already dealt with that. High-Risk Pools to buy insurance for them with State level subsidy *already existed*. My own State of CA spent plenty of money for them. I was there, I saw it.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 02:08 PM (ujg0T)

367 It was the House under Boehner that refused to even take up the amnesty bill

It wasn't for lack of trying.

so that's not a real complaint. If anything, that should have increased the trust.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:05 PM (/tuJf)

I think you might want to pick a different topic to demonstrate the alleged integrity of the Vichy GOP turds. They were trying their hardest to collaborate with Barky on pretty much every treasonous aid and comfort to invading illegals deal.

Jack, you know I have always liked you, and your comments, a lot but these days you are heading into Miss80sBaby territory.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2017 02:09 PM (zc3Db)

368 I am easy to please, just let me buy the insurance I want from someone willing to offer it. Every single other aspect of this debate is about theft.
--

Oh you can do that now.

If you have enough money.

Posted by: shibumi at March 24, 2017 02:09 PM (FkAXz)

369 BarkyCare is un-Constitutional. The federal
government has not the power to dictate individual health insurance.
It's not just the insane mandate that's the problem. It's the whole
idea that's in conflict with the Constitution. individual health
insurance and health care are state issues. The only business the
federal goernment has in all that is making regular interstate commerce
of such. Any "replacement" of an un-Constitutional bill with another
un-Constitutional bill is unacceptable. Period.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2017 02:02 PM (zc3Db)

look, friend, I will repeat again, it is already a law. going on a rant now about how unconstitutional it is, is so...2009. we need to focus on the bill at hand - the one that is doing away with its major provisions so we can stop its negative effect on our economy, etc.

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 02:09 PM (+JCjY)

370 "No, you need maternity coverage. And mental health coverage. And pre-natal coverage. And prostate cancer prevention. And breast cancer prevention. Otherwise it's not healthcare."
-ACA

-
Don't forget sex change surgery!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 24, 2017 02:10 PM (Nwg0u)

371 Seems a lot more likely that we will see more government intervention

Have you been hiding this theory under a TARP?

Posted by: DaveA at March 24, 2017 02:10 PM (FhXTo)

372 Excellent, Ace.

Posted by: Adrienne at March 24, 2017 02:10 PM (lVcuh)

373 I am easy to please, just let me buy the insurance I want from someone willing to offer it.

And I can't see why it is somehow brave or a political dead deal to offer a bill that says that.

Keep the issues simple and it would be political suicide to vote against such a bill.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 24, 2017 02:10 PM (2lndx)

374 348 It was the House under Boehner that refused to even take up the amnesty bill so that's not a real complaint. If anything, that should have increased the trust.
...
It's pretty funny reading the comments here while watching the Democrats in the House freaking out about how this bill rips healthcare from tens of millions and cuts over a trillion in taxes. Somebody is wrong.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:05 PM (/tuJf)

======================

I give credit to Boehner on that.

I've defended him several times here based solely on that.

But still...it was Marco Rubio, the next Reagan, who became the face of the party for a summer and hitched his entire future on it.

It was the autopsy of the 2012 campaign that explicitly called for it.

I don't hate the GOPe like many people here. I really don't.

I just don't understand how they can very blatantly signal that they don't want the things that a large portion of their activist base wants, and expect the activist base to just decide to trust them.

I'm inclined to believe that should Phase 1 pass, phase 2 will happen, and we'll get something with Phase 3.

But you have to understand that there's a major trust issue here. People have been feeling betrayed by the party since the mid 00s. The Establishment actively worked against the Tea Party, and that Establishment, is largely still there.

This was a great place for Leadership to reach out and try to establish trust with the base. But now their self-imposed deadline is coming and they're playing hardball. They're making themselves look foolish because they can't control their caucus, and taking more time might have been a solution to making that happen. But, Ryan scheduled the vote, so it has to happen no matter what.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:10 PM (ELUpj)

375 362
Let's face it, the healthcare industry overcharges. They play the game of maxing out what they can get from insurance, charging those with good insurance a premium for the same care and products they give discounts to medicare recipients for.

Greedy bastards. (sorry to you doctors out there)
Posted by: Sphynx at March 24, 2017 02:08 PM (OZmbA)

****************

So--France has a universal healthcare system--but they did significant tort reform --first.

Also I don't think they have the emergency room expenditures that we do.

In just Chicago alone--since this January--how many gun shot victims and victims of knife attacks have been cared for?

Gang violence is an expense to this country like no other.

So--it's cute when Liberals list the thirty or so countries that have universal healthcare countries and then you realize about a quarter of those are oil rich states of Arabia.

Anyways.

Posted by: The Grooveline at March 24, 2017 02:11 PM (fi5nC)

376 They just can't kill the beast.

Posted by: ALH at March 24, 2017 02:11 PM (uLuPn)

377 This stuff was talked about all last year in the House. There were something like 200 individual committee hearings on this issue so the complaint that it hasn't been discussed is not true and relies on the fact that most people don't actually watch what is going on in DC.

The bill has been posted online for 2 weeks now and almost nobody has read it. The very few amendments that were made dealt with things like removing the 10 mandatory things that must be covered in any insurance plan so it became even more conservative.

It's pretty funny reading the comments here while watching the Democrats in the House freaking out about how this bill rips healthcare from tens of millions and cuts over a trillion in taxes. Somebody is wrong.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:05 PM (/tuJf)

Have you read it?

Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 24, 2017 02:11 PM (mf5HN)

378 You'll never get the pre-existing conditions thing changed.

Never.

This is why Democrats are so dangerous.

We can't even try to keep murderers out of the country because Democrats have infected too many people with the desire to virtue signal.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 02:12 PM (3myMJ)

379 333 "We don't need to get it fast, we need to get it right"

Said the people working on this for eight years, who ad nauseam touted the "countless" times they passed a repeal bill.

You have to appreciate the irony. And the dishonesty.
Posted by: Marcus T at March 24, 2017 02:02 PM (OFxPz)

That's one of the things about this that really hacks me off.

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 24, 2017 02:12 PM (0mRoj)

380 @GodfreyElfwick

Canada has made criticism of Islam illegal. A proud day. This is a positive and #progressive decision I'm sure nobody will live to regret.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 24, 2017 02:08 PM (GgzGa)

How enlightened of them.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 24, 2017 02:12 PM (493sH)

381 They just can't kill the beast.
Posted by: ALH at March 24, 2017 02:11 PM (uLuPn)
_______________

Have they stabbed it? Steely knives?

Posted by: IP at March 24, 2017 02:12 PM (hUtue)

382 If Trump feels he can't work with the TruCons, he might simply start ignoring them.
---
He's a republican, then.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn at March 24, 2017 02:13 PM (3Liv/)

383 Let's face it, the healthcare industry overcharges. They play the game of maxing out what they can get from insurance, charging those with good insurance a premium for the same care and products they give discounts to medicare recipients for.

Greedy bastards. (sorry to you doctors out there)
Posted by: Sphynx at March 24, 2017 02:08 PM (OZmbA)

Anytime a 3rd Party, like an insurer, is paying for Somebody Else 1st party for a service from Somebody Else 2nd party, this overcharging and overpaying is going to happen.

Which is why insurance should be only for Major Financial Catastrophe, and not for Everything Routine.

This, too, needs to be explained to John and Jane Q. Public, until it sinks in.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 02:13 PM (ujg0T)

384 What I don't understand is why is it that the entire Obamacare bill was passed through reconciliation, but somehow a repeal and replace bill can't? Anybody know?

Posted by: Marmo, so sick of lefty fascists at March 24, 2017 02:13 PM (ib9So)

385 235 224 Wait. Ace has a car?
Jon Voight used to own it.
Posted by: Under Fire at March 24, 2017 01:45 PM (ymRuQ)
===

Ace drives an 89' LeBaron convertible?

Posted by: Independent George at March 24, 2017 02:13 PM (BDZWU)

386 The whole three stage plan was shit, and they forgot about steps 4 and 5.

Step 1: Keep Obamacare in Place, nibble at the edges. Take responsibility for the crash.

Step 2: HHS Secretary put in all the stuff that you like with temporary executive authority.

Step 3: Fail at new bill.

Step 4: Trump care crashes because it's just Obamacare with a new doo.

Step 5 Elect Dems, replace HHS Secretary, remove temporary good things, Introduce single-payer, Repubs cave.

They need to do straight repeal, block grant and cap medicaid and remove mandates and penalties (in the law not executive order). Make HSA and med expenses tax deductible. Let people buy what they want with no subsidy beyond the tax treatment.

Do a later bill with 26 year old children and existing conditions and if the Dems don't go along blame them, win more elections.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at March 24, 2017 02:13 PM (kfcYC)

387 I wish they would off Medicare at age 62 when you can first retire and collect Social Security.

Posted by: ALH at March 24, 2017 02:13 PM (uLuPn)

388 341 OT: Shia LaBologna has lost his flag again.

http://tinyurl.com/kawf8rv
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 24, 2017 02:04 PM (Nwg0u)

He fell victim to one of the classic blunders. Never go in against 4chan, when LULZ are on the line!

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 24, 2017 02:13 PM (0mRoj)

389 If that was all that was in it, it would probably pass.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 24, 2017 02:00 PM (LTHVh)

well, the Koch bros are very against it

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 02:13 PM (+JCjY)

390 Opiod crisis?

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at March 24, 2017 02:13 PM (8iiMU)

391 ObamaCare is Step Q or R.

Step A is a complete overhaul of the education system with the explicit goal of expunging the leftist, "progressive" fantasy mindset.

Until education from preschool to grad school is cleansed, we will get nowhere.

Posted by: filbert at March 24, 2017 02:14 PM (s5o+q)

392 Ace has a car?

Is this the fabled 'girlfriend?'

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 24, 2017 02:14 PM (oVJmc)

393 374 348 It was the House under Boehner that refused to even take up the amnesty bill so that's not a real complaint. If anything, that should have increased the trust.
...
It's pretty funny reading the comments here while watching the Democrats in the House freaking out about how this bill rips healthcare from tens of millions and cuts over a trillion in taxes. Somebody is wrong.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:05 PM (/tuJf)

======================

I give credit to Boehner on that.

I've defended him several times here based solely on that.

But still...it was Marco Rubio, the next Reagan, who became the face of the party for a summer and hitched his entire future on it.

It was the autopsy of the 2012 campaign that explicitly called for it.

I don't hate the GOPe like many people here. I really don't.

I just don't understand how they can very blatantly signal that they don't want the things that a large portion of their activist base wants, and expect the activist base to just decide to trust them.

I'm inclined to believe that should Phase 1 pass, phase 2 will happen, and we'll get something with Phase 3.

But you have to understand that there's a major trust issue here. People have been feeling betrayed by the party since the mid 00s. The Establishment actively worked against the Tea Party, and that Establishment, is largely still there.

This was a great place for Leadership to reach out and try to establish trust with the base. But now their self-imposed deadline is coming and they're playing hardball. They're making themselves look foolish because they can't control their caucus, and taking more time might have been a solution to making that happen. But, Ryan scheduled the vote, so it has to happen no matter what.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:10 PM (ELUpj)

2 days after the 2012 elections Boehner was talking about working with Obama on Comprehensive Immigration Reform. He deserves no credit. If anything its just that the shit sandwich didn't have enough corn for his liking.

Posted by: buzzion at March 24, 2017 02:14 PM (z/Ubi)

394
17% nationwide support for Trumpcare.
*Maybe* that's everyone who voted for him in the primary, just by numbers, but given the vocal support for Trumpcare is coming entirely from the GOPe uber alles crowd, that seems unlikely.
Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn at March 24, 2017 02:06 PM (3Liv/)

I was a die hard Trump supporter from the beginning... hell... almost got banned over it...

I don't support this Bill.

Posted by: Don Q. at March 24, 2017 02:14 PM (NgKpN)

395 The bill has been posted online for 2 weeks now and almost nobody has read it. The very few amendments that were made dealt with things like removing the 10 mandatory things that must be covered in any insurance plan so it became even more conservative.

I read it.

It's 120+ pages attempting to step back from the simple eight pages the GOP pushed through in 2016.

But that was all just bullshit to get votes. Everyone ... even you ... admits to that now.

This time they mean it though, right ? And they'll never hit us again, either. No use even talking about that thing they did in our mouth.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 24, 2017 02:15 PM (/BTP8)

396
Gang violence is an expense to this country like no other.

They'll fix that with gun control.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 24, 2017 02:15 PM (IqV8l)

397 >>I think you might want to pick a different topic to demonstrate the alleged integrity of the Vichy GOP turds. They were trying their hardest to collaborate with Barky on pretty much every treasonous aid and comfort to invading illegals deal.

>>Jack, you know I have always liked you, and your comments, a lot but these days you are heading into Miss80sBaby territory.

Perhaps. Particularly since Trump has gone wobbly on DACA. But many here are heading into angry rant territory because they don't want to understand the bill, don't want to understand what is really possible. And I may have to include you in that group.

There is ample information available as to what is happening now and why. Also plenty of evidence that removing the filibuster would not solve the problem yet people keep insisting that we need to pretend that this 40 years ago and Democrats will work with Republicans and we can do everything through the legislative process. That's absurd and anyone who has been paying the slightest attention to how Democrats have been acting knows that this is a full our war and just because you want something to happen doesn't mean it can.

Miss80's Baby actually is very knowledgeable about how DC works and how legislation can be accomplished. Somehow, that has become something to scorn. I don't agree.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:15 PM (/tuJf)

398 384 What I don't understand is why is it that the entire Obamacare bill was passed through reconciliation, but somehow a repeal and replace bill can't? Anybody know?
Posted by: Marmo, so sick of lefty fascists at March 24, 2017 02:13 PM (ib9So)

===================

Because it wasn't.

It was passed in two stages. The first passed with Ted Kennedy still alive. After he died, and it became clear that the Democrats wouldn't be able to get 60 votes on a compromise bill with the House, the House passed the Senate bill as it was, and they passed a side car bill through Reconciliation.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:15 PM (ELUpj)

399
Ace drives an 89' LeBaron convertible?
Posted by: Independent George at March 24, 2017 02:13 PM (BDZWU)

She's changing her name from Kitty to Karen
She's trading her MG for a white Chrysler LeBaron

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 24, 2017 02:16 PM (0mRoj)

400
I miss Mr. Moo Moo.
Posted by: Muldoon�

I do, too. He made me feel like a panhandler by comparison. When he and jwest started comparing dicks was the most fun.

I'm not poor. But from where I sit I can see were the dollars are flowing right now and it's not the doctors, not the business owners.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 24, 2017 02:16 PM (ZFUt7)

401 "I wish they would off Medicare at age 62 when you can first retire and collect Social Security."

Aha, that's the ticket!

Stay on parents insurance until 61.99, sign up for Medicare at 62.

Probem solved!!

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 02:16 PM (3myMJ)

402 393 2 days after the 2012 elections Boehner was talking about working with Obama on Comprehensive Immigration Reform. He deserves no credit. If anything its just that the shit sandwich didn't have enough corn for his liking.
Posted by: buzzion at March 24, 2017 02:14 PM (z/Ubi)

==================

It's obvious that they wanted it, but I have to credit results.

Boehner is the one who killed the Gang of 8. I don't care why, he did it.

Now, can we talk about other ways that Boehner was awful?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:16 PM (ELUpj)

403 @GodfreyElfwick

Canada has made criticism of Islam illegal. A proud day. This is a positive and #progressive decision I'm sure nobody will live to regret.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 24, 2017 02:08 PM (GgzGa)

If someone tried to pass a law to make criticism of Christianity illegal, I wonder how that would have gone over with the progressive crowd?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 24, 2017 02:16 PM (493sH)

404 It's pretty funny reading the comments here while watching the Democrats
in the House freaking out about how this bill rips healthcare from tens
of millions and cuts over a trillion in taxes. Somebody is wrong.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:05 PM (/tuJf)

it's Medicaid cuts that are scaring the house reps, i think. the states will be stuck with millions who ended up on o-care over the last 8 years.

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 02:17 PM (+JCjY)

405 Just heard a good conspiracy theory. Trump set Rynocare up to fail so he can blame Ryan and get another speaker.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 24, 2017 02:17 PM (Nwg0u)

406 384 What I don't understand is why is it that the entire Obamacare bill was passed through reconciliation, but somehow a repeal and replace bill can't? Anybody know?
Posted by: Marmo, so sick of lefty fascists at March 24, 2017 02:13 PM (ib9So)

****************

Live by the Reconciliation, Die by the Reconciliation.

That should be possible,imo.

Posted by: The Grooveline at March 24, 2017 02:17 PM (fi5nC)

407 362
Let's face it, the healthcare industry overcharges. They play the game of maxing out what they can get from insurance, charging those with good insurance a premium for the same care and products they give discounts to medicare recipients for.

Greedy bastards. (sorry to you doctors out there)
Posted by: Sphynx at March 24, 2017 02:08 PM (OZmbA)

------------------

Oh, yes. Your so virtuous. You certainly would't dip your fingers in the billions of dollars of government largesse when the government is down on it's knees begging you to take it.

Posted by: Soona at March 24, 2017 02:17 PM (Fmupd)

408 They're simply not serious. At all.

I mean, they could have just put to a vote any of the, like, half-dozen repeals of O'care than already passed the House, declared victory and went home.

But no. Instead, Paul Ryano had to create this smelly piece of rancid sh*t out of nowhere and try to jam it through on the strength of, I guess, his awesomeness which, turns out, ain't so much.

The only reason I can see DJT supporting it this hard is to that he can (soon, I hope) use it as the sword he's going demand Ryano fall on.

Hard to imagine how these clowns, including (unfortunately) DJT, could not have dorked this up any more spectacularly than they have.

Posted by: DocJ at March 24, 2017 02:17 PM (NYS7S)

409 >>> They make money by taking a small percentage of every dollar.
.....

As does everyone who provides anything to anyone in exchange for money. Most of which goes to offsetting recurring costs, fund new programs, etc.

Enough with the "evil corporation" bullshit. If you eliminate every CEO on earth and divert their full compensation back to consumers and/ or employees, it results in less than 1% discount/ pay increase. Eliminate 100% of profits (most profits are not free cash, they are liquidity needed to fund recurring operations) and you end up with zero providers (everyone goes out of business).

Now, let's look at the other side. Before insurance existed, individuals bore 100% of risk themselves. They chose to make allowance for that risk or ignore the risk and deal with consequences that might never occur. Let's say you have a ship. We all know that X out of Y ships will sink, resulting in a total loss to the ship owner of the ship, crew, and possibly cargo. Likely they would be out of business since all of the above were most likely leveraged and, even if they were not, few if any could come up with cash out of prior profits (only a percentage of income) to recover from the loss. So, enter an insurer who says, "Hey, if all ten of you ship owners pays me 15% of the value of your ship, crew, and cargo, I will cover 100% of your loss if it occurs." Yup, the insurer, in might make 5% from all of them... or two or more ships may sink and he's screwed. The insured all benefit by distributed risk, pay far less than they'd otherwise have to save, and keep more capital working rather than sitting in a safe just in case. Everyone wins, especially if the ship owner is smart and invests the capital he now doesn't have to save in an investment that gains better than th 5% he's paying to th insurer. Sadly, most people were stupid and will go out and buy beer and hookers with all the money they "saved".

In short, for the "small percentage" you revile, the insured gains more access to his money, a minuscule percentage of the risk he'd have otherwise, and peace of mind in the security of his investments, and the means to continue should the unfortunate happen.

Why doesn't it work like this anymore. One reason: government made it illegal because they wanted in on the action while contributing nothing and imbeciles get behind it because they'd rather vilify the person who is "ripping them off" for 5% than the government, who is taxing the same transaction at 28% or more.

Posted by: Damiano at March 24, 2017 02:17 PM (n3oGs)

410 >>It was passed in two stages. The first passed with Ted Kennedy still alive. After he died, and it became clear that the Democrats wouldn't be able to get 60 votes on a compromise bill with the House, the House passed the Senate bill as it was, and they passed a side car bill through Reconciliation.

3 actually. Kathleen Sebelius created much of what we now know as Obamacare through her position as Sec of HHS. That's how Obamacare was written.

3 phases. Now why does that sound familiar?

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:18 PM (/tuJf)

411 You'll never get the pre-existing conditions thing changed.

Never.
---
Then there's no point to doing anything but waiting for the dollar to crash and burn.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn at March 24, 2017 02:18 PM (3Liv/)

412 From where I sit, any roadblocks that are in the way of a simple repeal are self-imposed by the very leadership that doesn't want to do a simple repeal.

Saying that this is the way things are done in Washington is not a reason. It's an excuse.

Posted by: VA GOP Sucks at March 24, 2017 02:18 PM (PFy0L)

413 390 Opiod crisis?

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at March 24, 2017 02:13 PM (8iiMU)

********

Gawd that too. Costly.

Posted by: The Grooveline at March 24, 2017 02:18 PM (fi5nC)

414 Canada the UK and others already basically have Shariya ,at least towards "blashemy".

Posted by: steevy at March 24, 2017 02:18 PM (r/0kC)

415 Miss80's Baby actually is very knowledgeable about how DC works and how legislation can be accomplished. Somehow, that has become something to scorn. I don't agree.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:15 PM (/tuJf)

I'm in Sacramento (a proto-Government in its own right), and I get what Miss 80's baby had to say.

I understand "standing on principle (Strategic)", but I also what to Win (Tactical).

Someone has to think Both.

So far, Trump is the closest to that we have had since Uncle Ron.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 02:18 PM (ujg0T)

416 401 "I wish they would off Medicare at age 62 when you can first retire and collect Social Security."

I'm Reeling in the Years.

Posted by: ALH at March 24, 2017 02:19 PM (uLuPn)

417 Now, can we talk about other ways that Boehner was awful?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:16 PM (ELUpj)

The $50 Billion in cuts when they retook the House that was actually something like $2 billion in cuts.

Posted by: buzzion at March 24, 2017 02:19 PM (z/Ubi)

418 410
3 actually. Kathleen Sebelius created much of what we now know as Obamacare through her position as Sec of HHS. That's how Obamacare was written.

3 phases. Now why does that sound familiar?
Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:18 PM (/tuJf)

===================

Well, yeah.

The regulation writing phase. So sure, three phases.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:19 PM (ELUpj)

419 Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:10 PM (ELUpj)

Remember when some said Trump would be worth it even if all he did was destroy the R party?

Where's that "and so it begins" commenter?

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 02:19 PM (3myMJ)

420 Kathleen Sebelius created much of what we now know as Obamacare through
her position as Sec of HHS. That's how Obamacare was written.

3 phases. Now why does that sound familiar?

=======

Right ??

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 02:19 PM (+JCjY)

421 it's Medicaid cuts that are scaring the house reps, i think. the states will be stuck with millions who ended up on o-care over the last 8 years.
Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 02:17 PM (+JCjY)

That was one of the booby traps in PPACA to make it harder politically to repeal. The overwhelming majority of individuals who were allegedly "newly insured" under ZeroCare were actually added to the Medicaid rolls. Looking like you're throwing the "poor" out of the hospitals and doctors' offices to die on the street, as well as the extreme budgetary strain on the states who were dumb enough to take the bait, is a really big problem for legislators.

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 24, 2017 02:19 PM (0mRoj)

422 417 Now, can we talk about other ways that Boehner was awful?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:16 PM (ELUpj)

The $50 Billion in cuts when they retook the House that was actually something like $2 billion in cuts.
Posted by: buzzion at March 24, 2017 02:19 PM (z/Ubi)

=================

The hate is like a warm blanket on a cool night...

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:20 PM (ELUpj)

423 I recall Rush also sided, mostly, with the administration on NAFTA.

Posted by: David Wellman at March 24, 2017 02:20 PM (aWQkK)

424 419
Remember when some said Trump would be worth it even if all he did was destroy the R party?

Where's that "and so it begins" commenter?

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 02:19 PM (3myMJ)

=====================

I remember those.

Wasn't Ace saying that for a while?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:21 PM (ELUpj)

425
If Trump feels he can't work with the TruCons, he might simply start ignoring them. Posted by: Maritime at March 24, 2017 02:05 PM (mKRm7)
=====

After all, those icky TruCons are from those icky states that gave him an EC win. The popular vote is with the DC insiders. I'm In With The In Crowd.

Posted by: mustbequantum at March 24, 2017 02:21 PM (MIKMs)

426 Miss80's Baby actually is very knowledgeable about how DC works and how legislation can be accomplished. Somehow, that has become something to scorn. I don't agree.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:15 PM (/tuJf)

*********

Seconded.

Thugocracy is a successful thing. Hard to overcome.

Posted by: The Grooveline at March 24, 2017 02:21 PM (fi5nC)

427 Work on the tax cuts, show Ryan the door for his f*ck up, put this in the hands of the conservatives that opposed it (Cotton, Paul, Cruz) and take the time needed to make it right.

Posted by: SaltyDonnie at March 24, 2017 02:21 PM (i6shs)

428 "Canada has made criticism of Islam illegal."

If Islam doesn't deserve criticism, why does it get any? Other religions don't need this protection apparently.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 02:21 PM (3myMJ)

429 >>That was one of the booby traps in PPACA to make it harder politically to repeal. The overwhelming majority of individuals who were allegedly "newly insured" under ZeroCare were actually added to the Medicaid rolls. Looking like you're throwing the "poor" out of the hospitals and doctors' offices to die on the street, as well as the extreme budgetary strain on the states who were dumb enough to take the bait, is a really big problem for legislators.

Very true. And I think this bill has about as good a compromise as possible in that regard, at least for starters.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:21 PM (/tuJf)

430 421 it's Medicaid cuts that are scaring the house reps, i think. the states will be stuck with millions who ended up on o-care over the last 8 years.
Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 02:17 PM (+JCjY)

That was one of the booby traps in PPACA to make it harder politically to repeal. The overwhelming majority of individuals who were allegedly "newly insured" under ZeroCare were actually added to the Medicaid rolls. Looking like you're throwing the "poor" out of the hospitals and doctors' offices to die on the street, as well as the extreme budgetary strain on the states who were dumb enough to take the bait, is a really big problem for legislators.
Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 24, 2017 02:19 PM (0mRoj)

====================

Proposal:

Add work requirements to Medicaid expansion (if they aren't already there)
Concentrate on expanding the economy
Re-attack the Medicaid expansion in an economic boom

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:22 PM (ELUpj)

431 F
ox Business - Comey just seen walking into the White House. I hope it's for the beat down he so richly deserves

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 24, 2017 02:22 PM (493sH)

432 Miss80's Baby actually is very knowledgeable about how DC works and how
legislation can be accomplished. Somehow, that has become something to
scorn.
---
It's generally called 'going native'

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn at March 24, 2017 02:22 PM (3Liv/)

433 416 401 "I wish they would off Medicare at age 62 when you can first retire and collect Social Security."

I'm Reeling in the Years.
Posted by: ALH at March 24, 2017 02:19 PM (uLuPn)

Why? Shit, cut the line and keep those years away!

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 24, 2017 02:22 PM (0mRoj)

434 Just lift up the hood and fix it, Larry!

Posted by: H. Ross Perot at March 24, 2017 02:22 PM (IqV8l)

435
Wait! I've got an idea! Just get the doctors to volunteer to treat everyone! And the big companies can give their drugs for free! I'll be a nurse and work hard for like cappucinos and stuff! It'll be fun! It'll be so great!

Posted by: Valley Girl Bernie Sanders supporter at March 24, 2017 02:22 PM (OZmbA)

436 If it doesn't lower costs, don't even think about voting for it!

Scrap this POS, do a layup on tax reform, the wall, and then come back to this and start from scratch on it.

Posted by: Duncan Macleod, The Highlander at March 24, 2017 02:22 PM (NAv1Q)

437 @GodfreyElfwick

Canada has made criticism of Islam illegal. A proud day. This is a positive and #progressive decision I'm sure nobody will live to regret.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 24, 2017 02:08 PM (GgzGa)

If someone tried to pass a law to make criticism of Christianity illegal, I wonder how that would have gone over with the progressive crowd?
Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 24, 2017 02:16 PM (493sH)

Does Canada not realize that adherence to ANY other faith than Islam constitutes (at best) a "criticism" of Islam?

Is that really too blindingly obvious for anyone north of the border to see?

Posted by: filbert at March 24, 2017 02:22 PM (s5o+q)

438 427 Work on the tax cuts, show Ryan the door for his f*ck up, put this in the hands of the conservatives that opposed it (Cotton, Paul, Cruz) and take the time needed to make it right.
Posted by: SaltyDonnie at March 24, 2017 02:21 PM (i6shs)

===================

You want to replace a Representative with a Senator?

I don't think they'll take the demotion.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:23 PM (ELUpj)

439 What do we want?

Whatever limited compromise is possible in the context of Washington politics.
When do we want it?

Whenever Republicans promise us major reform.

It's not a very inspiring cadence.

Posted by: V the K at March 24, 2017 02:23 PM (O7MnT)

440 431 F
ox Business - Comey just seen walking into the White House. I hope it's for the beat down he so richly deserves
Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 24, 2017 02:22 PM (493sH)

He's going to tell the Donald it was just business.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 24, 2017 02:23 PM (RD7QR)

441 Miss80's Baby actually is very knowledgeable about how DC works and how legislation can be accomplished. Somehow, that has become something to scorn. I don't agree.

And that's your problem Jack. Right there. In a nutshell.

If a lawyer is fucking me ... I don't give two shits about another lawyer's admiration of the fine print.

It's axe handles for everybody.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 24, 2017 02:23 PM (/BTP8)

442 Good. Enable country wide competition already.
They can suck all the special interest lobbying assholes they want after that. I don't care what they do. Competition will increase coverage and reduce rates. It has s that far cling simple. And these motherfuckers want us to believe they are frugal constitutional conservatives?

GFYSilly

Posted by: Denny Crane! at March 24, 2017 02:23 PM (ldl58)

443 I'm in Sacramento (a proto-Government in its own right), and I get what Miss 80's baby had to say.

I understand "standing on principle (Strategic)", but I also what to Win (Tactical).

Someone has to think Both.

So far, Trump is the closest to that we have had since Uncle Ron.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 02:18 PM (ujg0T)

***********

She was super smart, super polite, and provided great content.

Posted by: The Grooveline at March 24, 2017 02:23 PM (fi5nC)

444 3 phases. Now why does that sound familiar?

-
Phase 1: Lose money on individual policies

Phase 2: Make it up in volume

Phase 3: Profit!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 24, 2017 02:24 PM (Nwg0u)

445 Remember when some said Trump would be worth it even if all he did was destroy the R party?

Where's that "and so it begins" commenter?

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 02:19 PM (3myMJ)

I also remember most of us *cheering* that, so long as it meant the GOPee.

And the Trump True Believers believed Trump DID mean the GOPee, so they jumped on the Trump Train.

And the #Nevertrumpers were, IIRC, either (1) the GOPee, or (2) the "True True Believers" who thought Trump was just another GOPee in another disguise.

I could forgive (2) and I still do.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 02:24 PM (ujg0T)

446 Finally, our long national nightmare is over. Here's the link to that Chris Pratt piece from the sidebar

http://tinyurl.com/kyonjqu

Posted by: josephistan at March 24, 2017 02:24 PM (7HtZB)

447 >>Add work requirements to Medicaid expansion (if they aren't already there)

Pretty much what the bill does by limiting the Medicaid payments to the states based on the people who should qualify based on the original intent of the law and then giving block grants to the state in that amount. If the individual states want to take on people who shouldn't qualify it's up to them to pay for it.

Federalism.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:24 PM (/tuJf)

448 Everyone knows that Godfrey Elfwick is a parody account, yes?

This was a great place for Leadership to reach out and try to establish trust with the base. But now their self-imposed deadline is coming and they're playing hardball. They're making themselves look foolish because they can't control their caucus, and taking more time might have been a solution to making that happen. But, Ryan scheduled the vote, so it has to happen no matter what.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:10 PM (ELUpj)

Let us set aside the issue of whether the bill is good or bad and focus on this.

This is the first big legislation under the Trump Presidency and Ryan's Speakership during unified Republican control of the legislative and executive branches.

You do not let this get set for vote until you know you have the votes. You just don't do that.

I wasn't joking about the Tip O'Neill missing. You think Tip would have let something like this happen?

This is a failure of basic competence at leadership on Ryan's part.

Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 24, 2017 02:25 PM (mf5HN)

449 Miss80's Baby actually is very knowledgeable about how DC works and how legislation can be accomplished. Somehow, that has become something to scorn. I don't agree.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:15 PM (/tuJf)

Miss80sBaby turned into a shill for the Vichy GOP. She never did anything but try and defend the House leadership.

She wasn't always like that but something snapped a few years ago and she became all Vichy GOP defense, all the time. Most of her legislative arguments to support her leadership buds were laughable excuses.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2017 02:25 PM (zc3Db)

450 "Wasn't Ace saying that for a while?"

I don't think you'll find much that Ace hasn't said at one time or another. He "explores".

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 02:25 PM (3myMJ)

451 (Whatever nonsense you typed)
Posted by: Damiano at March 24, 2017 02:17 PM (n3oGs)

Eat me. The insurance companies have no vested interest in reducing costs to consumers. Period. Exactly the opposite.

But let's put them in charge of the chicken coop.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 24, 2017 02:25 PM (ZFUt7)

452 That was one of the booby traps in PPACA to make it
harder politically to repeal. The overwhelming majority of individuals
who were allegedly "newly insured" under ZeroCare were actually added to
the Medicaid rolls. Looking like you're throwing the "poor" out of the
hospitals and doctors' offices to die on the street, as well as the
extreme budgetary strain on the states who were dumb enough to take the
bait, is a really big problem for legislators.

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 24, 2017 02:19 PM (0mRoj)

So, who are they ? Those who o-care pulled from the pool of uninsured ? millions of illegals? folks who lost Medicare due to some o-care provision ?

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 02:25 PM (+JCjY)

453 I'll make my earlier post shorter:

If you support govement to intervene in your god given right to obtain hundreds or thousands of dollar in service in exchange for a $20 copay and a monthly payment that is a minisule percentage of what you'd have to pay yourself if something unfortunate were to happen for you, there really is no fixing your problem because your problem is feeling entitled to everyone else paying your bills for you.

Posted by: Damiano at March 24, 2017 02:26 PM (n3oGs)

454 451 (Whatever nonsense you typed)
Posted by: Damiano at March 24, 2017 02:17 PM (n3oGs)

Eat me. The insurance companies have no vested interest in reducing costs to consumers. Period. Exactly the opposite.

But let's put them in charge of the chicken coop.
Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 24, 2017 02:25 PM (ZFUt7)

Keep it polite. The accepted term is "eat MOI."

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 24, 2017 02:26 PM (RD7QR)

455

Like Dobb's keeps saying, "you've had 7 years to perfect a repeal/replacement"

what the h3ll have they been doing?

the intricacies seem pretty complex in getting this through the various steps, and the precursors of junk that needed to be done first (from what I keep hearing), so I'm not sure about this either.

This seems to be Phase Chaos. More phases to come.

But it sure does sound like Trump is allowing input for all parties involved. This is a good thing.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 24, 2017 02:27 PM (0mz2+)

456 447 >>Add work requirements to Medicaid expansion (if they aren't already there)

Pretty much what the bill does by limiting the Medicaid payments to the states based on the people who should qualify based on the original intent of the law and then giving block grants to the state in that amount. If the individual states want to take on people who shouldn't qualify it's up to them to pay for it.

Federalism.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:24 PM (/tuJf)

==================

I had an inkling that it was in there.

As I've said before, if I want this bill to fail, it's to impose some level of humility in Congressional leadership. That would be my main goal.

I do not think this is our one and only chance. It may be a good time to do it, but it probably won't be the only time.

A booming economy in 2019 after a good election year that keeps the House and increases Republican control of the Senate could be a good time to do it too.

But then I sound like the "This isn't the hill to die on" kind of guy, and people blast me.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:27 PM (ELUpj)

457 I could forgive (2) and I still do.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 02:24 PM (ujg0T)

Yep.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 02:27 PM (3myMJ)

458 When's the last time Republicans delivered something to their base that they'd been wanting for decades and decades, like Dems and Obamacare?

Democrats win, they attack and forward their agenda. "Hey guys, you wanted gummint health care? Viola!"

Republicans win, they circle the wagons and fight a rearguard action. "Look assholes, government isn't growing quite as fast as when they're in power. Spending isn't increasing quite as fast as when they're in power. Freedom isn't disappearing quite as fast as when they're in power. So fuck you vote Democrat if you don't like it."

Posted by: spoonfeed me at March 24, 2017 02:28 PM (bcDxW)

459 Add work requirements to Medicaid expansion (if they aren't already there)
Concentrate on expanding the economy
Re-attack the Medicaid expansion in an economic boom
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:22 PM (ELUpj)

It's means-tested only, to the best of my knowledge. Economic growth would be the best environment in which to approach entitlement reform, but the underlying problem still remains, and probably alway will remain, the federal Leviathan. The individual states would have far more flexibility and means to provide and structure their own safety net programs if the federal government wasn't leeching so much of every state population's income/wealth. The Feds steal the money, take their vig, then turn around and bribe the states with it. It's the scam that's been going on pretty much since we had federal income tax show up.

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 24, 2017 02:28 PM (0mRoj)

460
The $50 Billion in cuts when they retook the House that was actually something like $2 billion in cuts.
Posted by: buzzion at March 24, 2017 02:19 PM (z/Ubi)

=================

The hate is like a warm blanket on a cool night...
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:20 PM (ELUpj)

Now now, you all should know how The Baseline Budgeting Trick works by now. The Commiecrats call it $50 billion in cuts from the ever growing baseline, and the DemMedia repeats it.

I am actually pleasantly surprised there actually were $2 billion in real cuts.

Usually the GOPee settles for a $25 billion real growth, and still gets demonized for "Cuts" anyway.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 02:28 PM (ujg0T)

461 "And if it's necessary to make some compromises we all don't necessarily
like, we need a little time to get comfortable with those."

There are compromises, and there are promises.

The promise was to "repeal Obamacare".

They didn't even try.

Repeal wasn't even on the table.

They could have dusted off the straight-repeal bill that they passed before, as empty theater, when they knew Obama was there as a backstop veto to shield them from consequences.

Nope! Not this time!

Posted by: torquewrench at March 24, 2017 02:28 PM (noWW6)

462 I wonder if Ryan thought he could present a crappy bill that wouldn't get the support needed to pass then tell Trump, "Hey buddy, we tried but we just don't have the votes so we can't vote because it won't pass." and Trump, unexpectedly says "Vote anyway."

"But we never vote if they know it won't pass. NEVER. Its too embarrassing."

And Trump says, " So be embarrassed. I'm done with you clowns. You had 7 YEARS to get something settled you deserve to be embarrassed. Losers."

Posted by: Lily Formerly of HotAir (Now from AoSHQ)assassin in the night at March 24, 2017 02:28 PM (vivhj)

463 Miss80sBaby turned into a shill for the Vichy GOP. She never did anything but try and defend the House leadership.

She wasn't always like that but something snapped a few years ago and she became all Vichy GOP defense, all the time. Most of her legislative arguments to support her leadership buds were laughable excuses.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2017 02:25 PM (zc3Db)

*************

Vichy--jeezuz--do you ever listen to yourself?

Go google "Vichy".

A lot of you use the same censorship tactics that Liberals do. In fact you probably were liberals till just recently because your tactics of the --

emotional--with an addiction to hysteria--smell the same.

Posted by: The Grooveline at March 24, 2017 02:28 PM (fi5nC)

464 448 Let us set aside the issue of whether the bill is good or bad and focus on this.

This is the first big legislation under the Trump Presidency and Ryan's Speakership during unified Republican control of the legislative and executive branches.

You do not let this get set for vote until you know you have the votes. You just don't do that.

I wasn't joking about the Tip O'Neill missing. You think Tip would have let something like this happen?

This is a failure of basic competence at leadership on Ryan's part.
Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 24, 2017 02:25 PM (mf5HN)

=====================

It's so basic that Nancy Pelosi didn't do it. She knew she had the votes. She was negotiating with her members to see who could most easily survive from voting yes or no.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:28 PM (ELUpj)

465 yo

Posted by: yo at March 24, 2017 02:29 PM (Lj7ZS)

466 What do we want?

TAX CUTS !

when do we want them ??

NOW ! (well, as soon as we stop o-care from sucking the tax dollars)

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 02:29 PM (+JCjY)

467 What should Ryan do? Just spitballin' but maybe come up with a conservative bill that says something about the free market... blah blah blah.

Posted by: Some moron at March 24, 2017 02:29 PM (1G2ms)

468 Thanks for the answer, TheJamesMadison and others.

It seems like Trump wanting to keep the popular parts of OCare, like preexisting conditions, on the parent's plan up to age 26, and Medicaid expansion, that in itself meant OCare lite. Those things have to get paid for somehow.

Just get government the hell out of the health provider/insurance business!

Posted by: Marmo, so sick of lefty fascists at March 24, 2017 02:29 PM (ib9So)

469 Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2017 02:25 PM (zc3Db)

************

Hell I remember when Ace banned you for your extreme interest in genetic superiority....

Posted by: The Grooveline at March 24, 2017 02:29 PM (fi5nC)

470 "Most of her legislative arguments to support her leadership buds were laughable excuses."

They were not! Her logic was perfectly cogent!

Posted by: Sue Harper In Lower Lima at March 24, 2017 02:30 PM (noWW6)

471 That's the bad news, sir.

The good news is my abs are still cut like an NFL cornerback's.

Posted by: Paul Ryan at March 24, 2017 02:31 PM (4bKiB)

472 462 I wonder if Ryan thought he could present a crappy bill that wouldn't get the support needed to pass then tell Trump, "Hey buddy, we tried but we just don't have the votes so we can't vote because it won't pass." and Trump, unexpectedly says "Vote anyway."

"But we never vote if they know it won't pass. NEVER. Its too embarrassing."

And Trump says, " So be embarrassed. I'm done with you clowns. You had 7 YEARS to get something settled you deserve to be embarrassed. Losers."

Posted by: Lily Formerly of HotAir (Now from AoSHQ)assassin in the night at March 24, 2017 02:28 PM (vivhj)

====================

Considering the stories that Trump is growing tired of the whole thing, I could imagine this happening to embarrass Ryan.

But then, Ryan, as a member of another branch of government, probably should develop some backbone and say no if that were the case.

The legislature rolling over for the executive is what keeps getting us into messes.

You people are a co-equal branch! In some ways you're far more powerful than the executive branch!

Act like it!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:31 PM (ELUpj)

473 Why is Ryan asking Trump what he should do? It is not Trump's job to manage the legislative process.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:32 PM (f5uaD)

474
So, who are they ? Those who o-care pulled from the pool of uninsured ? millions of illegals? folks who lost Medicare due to some o-care provision ?
Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 02:25 PM (+JCjY)

---------------

I'm going to say that nobody knows. Ocare was designed to confuse and destroy any accountability. It's probably one of the reasons this shitwad law is so hard to be rid of.

Posted by: Soona at March 24, 2017 02:32 PM (Fmupd)

475 Hell I remember when Ace banned you for your extreme interest in genetic superiority....

Posted by: The Grooveline at March 24, 2017 02:29 PM (fi5nC)

I was never banned.

You like making shit up about people. Nice.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2017 02:32 PM (zc3Db)

476 Keep it polite. The accepted term is "eat MOI."
Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 24, 2017 02:26 PM (RD7QR)

Yes, mother. (In best Norman Bates voice)

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 24, 2017 02:32 PM (ZFUt7)

477 So, the vote is still on at 3:30.

I guess they are Double Dog Daring the TruCons.

Posted by: ALH at March 24, 2017 02:32 PM (uLuPn)

478 149

Not sure I get your reference.

----

THEN I WILL TYPE IN BIG LETTERS SLOW. THE PRESIDENT HIS
CRONIES SPYING WIRETAPPING ON THE TRANSTITION TEAM THE
PRESIDENT ELECT IS A LITTLE BIT MORE IMPORTANT THAN HEALTHCARE BILL
(FAILURE)

Posted by: EVLINC! at March 24, 2017 01:33 PM (y3aQB)

-----------------------------------------------

Perhaps, if you re-read my comment, you will see that I was lamenting that very thing.

I'll have to keep up with your comments in the future, for my edification.

Posted by: Javems at March 24, 2017 02:32 PM (yOqwj)

479 Trump is definitely putting the screws to the R's in the House and Ryan here.

What's his end game?

Winning.

Now I'll wait to see if he gets there.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 24, 2017 02:33 PM (3myMJ)

480 It's comforting to know that our betters in Congress have deemed the Free Market to dangerous for health care. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing all those poor people aren't dying in the streets because of it. But hey, all that matters is that we won, right?

Posted by: The Dude at March 24, 2017 02:33 PM (Lj7ZS)

481
Why the hell does my insurance have to suffer for the Leftist repubs and dems to insure their crony voters?

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 02:33 PM (ODxAs)

482 I don't know. Trump supposedly said vote.. If it fails he is moving on to tax cuts...

Posted by: Jan Brady at March 24, 2017 01:10 PM (O2RFr)

This works for me... let the voters have a come to Jesus meeting with their legislators during the break and maybe we will get a credible repeal bill after that.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:33 PM (f5uaD)

483 Perhaps, if you re-read my comment, you will see that I was lamenting that very thing.

I'll have to keep up with your comments in the future, for my edification.
Posted by: Javems at March 24, 2017 02:32 PM (yOqwj)

And that's why you need /sarc tags.

Poe's Law, like Rule 34, is estabished.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 02:33 PM (ujg0T)

484 482 I don't know. Trump supposedly said vote.. If it fails he is moving on to tax cuts...

Posted by: Jan Brady at March 24, 2017 01:10 PM (O2RFr)

This works for me... let the voters have a come to Jesus meeting with their legislators during the break and maybe we will get a credible repeal bill after that.
Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:33 PM (f5uaD)

==================

"Registered voters in my district only, please."

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:34 PM (ELUpj)

485 >>> Eat me. The insurance companies have no vested interest in reducing costs to consumers. Period. Exactly the opposite.
.......

Eat me. Excellent counter argument. You really got me there.

Now we move forward to your assertion. If I am an insurer and everyone stops buying insurance because they can't afford it, what happens to me?

What you fail to understand is that consumers control prices entirely, unless the government intervenes. Government intervention, even assuming the most noble intent and competent administration adds cost to the transaction for the simple reason that it adds people and resource that must be paid for.

Or, we could ignore all history, knowledge, and reality for all human history and pretend that everyone in business of any kind is Scrooge McDuck swimming through his ill gotten gains while providing no similar value in return.

Posted by: Damiano at March 24, 2017 02:34 PM (n3oGs)

486 >>Considering the stories that Trump is growing tired of the whole thing, I could imagine this happening to embarrass Ryan.

This is kind of what I mean. The reason that Trump is "growing tired of the whole thing" is because he isn't. He understands that he can't do anything else on his agenda until this issue is settled one way or another.

I know I will get accused of being part of the Vichy Republicans but there are structural reasons for this and reasons Obamacare repeal went first.

If this doesn't pass then Trump's agenda will be watered down. It's not my Vichy Republican roots, it's a fact.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:34 PM (/tuJf)

487 >>>8 Oh, and Ryan is an ass...
Posted by: Jan Brady at March 24, 2017 01:11 PM (O2RFr)

It's so shocking to hear that sort of language coming from a nice young girl.

Posted by: m at March 24, 2017 02:35 PM (Gqgs8)

488 473 Why is Ryan asking Trump what he should do? It is not Trump's job to manage the legislative process.
Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:32 PM (f5uaD)

----------------

Don't let the MFM narrative of what may be going on confuse you with what is probably going on.

Posted by: Soona at March 24, 2017 02:35 PM (Fmupd)

489 They should focus on bringing cost down through
price transparency, competition and moving away from third party payment
systems except for catastrophic illness.

If everyone relied on third-party insurance or a vast government
Foodcare program to buy your groceries a box of cereal would cost $45.

The problem is that there is a huge class of hospital and health
care administrators, government bureaucrats, insurance company managers
and others who depend on the current third-party payer system to fill
their rice bowls.

That is why the GOPe solution is simply to reshuffle the deck to
change the taxing and payment mechanisms but not to try to upset the
third-party payer paradigm.

Posted by: Scalia's Ghost at March 24, 2017 01:27 PM (3OAG2)

This +1000

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:35 PM (f5uaD)

490 TL;DR - The 1986 amnesty will be the only one. The wall will be built. Why should I trust those who are untrustworthy?

As far as commentary on the political realities of blah blah blah I'm 29 enough that I have heard that for so long that it no longer has any meaning.

We can't do anything because we don't have the House but if we have the House, then we have the power of the purse and we will fight fight fight.

Fine. Here's the House.

Well, okay, we have the House but c'mon, you didn't really think we would use the power of the purse, did you? The political realities are such that we cannot force passage of actual budgets but must instead pass omnibus spending bills on the eve of hitting the borrowing cap which, oh, yeah, remember how we told you there would be a ceiling put in place on government borrowing and it wouldn't just be a never ending pit? You know that's just not tenable. We can't do anything without the Senate and you are a foolish child for thinking otherwise.

Fine. Here's the House and Senate.

Look, given the political realities of today, you know that nothing can be done without holding both the Executive and Legislative branches. The days of there being moderate Democrats who will reach across the aisle are over and we cannot do anything at all until we hold the Presidency. Surely you aren't so naive as to think otherwise.

Fine. Here's the Presidency.

But but but but but 60 in the Senate! The agencies! The Freedom Caucus! Locuts! Earthquakes! IT WASN'T MY FAULT!

Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 24, 2017 02:35 PM (mf5HN)

491 I would suggest that everyone go back and read the link I posted yesterday about different healthcare-payment strategies around the world.

The reality is this: you have input, you have friction, and you have output.

Output = input - friction.

Friction is every cost along the way that doesn't result in a patient outcome. It can be everything from the cost of the two extra clerks a practice needs to process insurance paperwork to the mortgage payment on the specialist's ski cabin to the cost of drug development borne by US consumers not paid by everyone else, but those are all frictional losses in the process.

So there's really two issues:

a) Where do you take cost out of the friction, and

b) Where you decide certain outputs are not worth the input?

There are various ways to attempt to contain cost in this:

a) You give full authority over the cost of the input to the people who receive the output (the pure free-market model).

b) You give full authority over the cost of the input to some entity who will pay a greater political cost for the cost than the results (the British NHS model).

c) You attempt to constrain expenditures on certain elements of the frictional costs, without direct control over or responsibility for either the cost of the input or the quality of the output (where we are now).

d) Some mixture of the above (the Swiss, German, etc. models).

Each has benefits and drawbacks. For (a) you have winners and losers, the winners win big, the losers win big, and the social costs (e.g. pre-existing conditions) may be unacceptable.

For (b) the only way you accomplish this is by extensive control both over the cost of providers (e.g. importing vast numbers of Near Eastern and Eastern European medical staff) and handling the mundane stuff well in favor of rationing the hard stuff.

What we've seen with (c) is that it produces very high quality care for the politically protected and a patchwork of ugly processes for everyone else, at very high cost because of the political protection of certain parts of the provider scheme.

If the Brit NHS gets one thing right it's that it stomps on everyone pretty much equally, patients, doctors, specialists, and pharma, which our system does not.

I'm not arguing for single-payer, and I'd definitely argue for a much clearer pricing structure and a more direct payer-provider relationship, but I'd also argue (against my own interest) for, in an optimal system, eliminating health insurance as a deductible employment benefit and 'flattening' the system and making everyone play on the same field. And the whole pre-existing condition thing is a horse that's left the barn, it's going to be part of any future structure.

Posted by: JEM at March 24, 2017 02:35 PM (TppKb)

492 FRIDAY AFTERNOON SPECIAL! DEAL OF THE CENTURY! HURRY -- WON'T LAST!

SHIT SANDWICH, HALF PRICE!!
THAT'S RIGHT -- ONLY HALF PRICE!!

OUR COMPETITORS SAY WE'RE CRAZY TO OFFER THIS DEAL, BUT WE'RE DOING IT ANYWAY!

SHIT SANDWICH, ONLY HALF PRICE!!

Posted by: Paul Ryan Sandwich Company at March 24, 2017 02:36 PM (qYCgM)

493 My PC is so hosed up I have to use Microsoft Edge.
Actually, quite an improvement over the olde versions.

I figure this is not off-topic, because the post is about TrumpRyanCare, which is eerily similar to Windoze 10 when it's really screwed up.

Posted by: jwb7605 at March 24, 2017 02:36 PM (DofIg)

494
If these big govt people want to offer big govt policies they should just do that, and let me buy the insurance I want.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 02:36 PM (ODxAs)

495 and reasons Obamacare repeal went first.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:34 PM (/tuJf)

There is no "repeal" on the table. It's BarkyCare amending. Call it what it is.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2017 02:36 PM (zc3Db)

496 481
Why the hell does my insurance have to suffer for the Leftist repubs and dems to insure their crony voters?
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 02:33 PM (ODxAs)

News flash: Your insurance already HAS suffered.

The question is how best, most successfully, to get legislation through that undoes and reverses the suffering.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 02:36 PM (ujg0T)

497 JackStraw - I agree with you. It has to go first. Otherwise o-care black hole is gonna destroy any benefits of tax cuts/tax reforms

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 02:37 PM (+JCjY)

498 >>There is no "repeal" on the table. It's BarkyCare amending. Call it what it is.

Okay, the first step in repealing Obamacare. How about you try being as honest for a change.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:37 PM (/tuJf)

499 Why is Ryan asking Trump what he should do? It is not Trump's job to manage the legislative process.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:32 PM (f5uaD)

*Trump slaps Ryan in the face* You can act like a man!

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 24, 2017 02:37 PM (493sH)

500 FBN is rolling out all of their paid docs without socks to plug for this POS. I'm surprised they're not in scrubs with a stethoscope.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 24, 2017 02:37 PM (ymRuQ)

501 It would be great if they could change it back to where it was before Obamacare was passed.

Low deductibles and affordable rates.

Posted by: ALH at March 24, 2017 02:37 PM (uLuPn)

502 Dear Trump,

Next time, dance with the one that brung ya, not the one that openly hates you.

Posted by: OCBill at March 24, 2017 02:37 PM (df+Zi)

503 Each has benefits and drawbacks. For (a) you have winners and losers, the winners win big, the losers win big, and the social costs (e.g. pre-existing conditions) may be unacceptable.

Uh, the losers LOSE big...

Posted by: JEM at March 24, 2017 02:38 PM (TppKb)

504 496
Why the hell does my insurance have to suffer for the Leftist repubs and dems to insure their crony voters?
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 02:33 PM (ODxAs)

News flash: Your insurance already HAS suffered.

The question is how best, most successfully, to get legislation through that undoes and reverses the suffering.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 02:36 PM (ujg0T)

====================

"Resolved: There shall be no artificially imposed limit on the number of hospitals or doctors in any region, city, or state of this nation imposed by federal law."

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:38 PM (ELUpj)

505 Theory: Shia LaBeouf is secretly conservative, and anonymously feeds hints to 4chan.

Posted by: Max Power at March 24, 2017 02:38 PM (q177U)

506 Comey at the WH.

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/260749/

Posted by: steevy at March 24, 2017 02:38 PM (r/0kC)

507 >>JackStraw - I agree with you. It has to go first. Otherwise o-care black hole is gonna destroy any benefits of tax cuts/tax reforms

Again, its not me saying it, its a legislative reality.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:38 PM (/tuJf)

508 Okay, the first step in repealing Obamacare. How about you try being as honest for a change.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:37 PM (/tuJf)

Paste what I was allegedly dishonest about. I'll wait.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2017 02:38 PM (zc3Db)

509 You know ... I've had this thought rolling around in my head for a while. I've always said - at the end of the day - the GOP and DNC just differ on what Big Gub'Mint should look like. And I've never believed the GOP shills were any more virtuous than their DNC counterparts.

But what to do about it ?

Well ... this bit of Contrived Failure Theatre has solidified that thought. I'll just be voting against the incumbent from now on.

They really are the same. The parties. Their surrogates. And their shills.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 24, 2017 02:38 PM (/BTP8)

510
Oh I know my insurance has suffered Curmudgeon, especially since I buy on the individual market and have had premiums triple for less coverage. I just wonder why Congress wants to give me more enemas.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 02:39 PM (ODxAs)

511 I would like there to be a law that required alll politicians to first beg the voters forgiveness before speaking any other words.

Posted by: Weasel at March 24, 2017 02:39 PM (Sfs6o)

512 511 I would like there to be a law that required alll politicians to first beg the voters forgiveness before speaking any other words.
Posted by: Weasel at March 24, 2017 02:39 PM (Sfs6o)

====================

"Resolved: Sarbane Oxley shall now apply to all government agencies. Penalties are now doubled for government employees."

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:40 PM (ELUpj)

513 >>Paste what I was allegedly dishonest about. I'll wait.

No you won't. You'll just keep screaming that this is just a sly way for the Vichy Republicans to extend Obamacare.

Think what you want and I will too.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:40 PM (/tuJf)

514 500
FBN is rolling out all of their paid docs without socks to plug for this
POS. I'm surprised they're not in scrubs with a stethoscope.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 24, 2017 02:37 PM (ymRuQ)

I know. It is starting to piss me off....lol...

Posted by: Irritated Ian Galt at March 24, 2017 02:40 PM (8iiMU)

515 I know I will get accused of being part of the Vichy Republicans but there are structural reasons for this and reasons Obamacare repeal went first.

If this doesn't pass then Trump's agenda will be watered down. It's not my Vichy Republican roots, it's a fact.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:34 PM (/tuJf)

What structural reasons? That's an honest question. I am not sure what you mean by structural in this formulation.

Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 24, 2017 02:40 PM (mf5HN)

516 Theory: Shia LaBeouf is secretly conservative, and anonymously feeds hints to 4chan.
Posted by: Max Power

Too complicated.

Simpler, non-Occam violating answer; he's another pathologically guilty H-wood rube with an ego that matches his wealth.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 24, 2017 02:40 PM (GgzGa)

517 As far as commentary on the political realities of blah blah blah I'm 29 enough that I have heard that for so long that it no longer has any meaning.

AtC, yep. I've been around long enough to see this same kind of dance numerous times.

And usually, being told the "political realities" is generally done in a condescending manner. As if those realities aren't created by the same people who are complaining about being constrained by them now.

And those constraints can be removed. Those in power simply don't want to do it.

Posted by: VA GOP Sucks at March 24, 2017 02:41 PM (PFy0L)

518 And....

Top 600!

Posted by: Irritated Ian Galt at March 24, 2017 02:41 PM (8iiMU)

519
Someone wants to compare the free enterprise system with insurance companies - as carefully sheltered as a precious unique snowflake -- as the example?

Bite moi.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 24, 2017 02:41 PM (ZFUt7)

520 >>Theory: Shia LaBeouf is secretly conservative, and anonymously feeds hints to 4chan.

Raised by wacky hippies and mentally unbalanced.
But maybe this experience will turn him conservative?

Posted by: Lizzy at March 24, 2017 02:41 PM (NOIQH)

521 518 And....

Top 600!

Posted by: Irritated Ian Galt at March 24, 2017 02:41 PM (8iiMU)

================

Just barely, too.

Congratulations!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:41 PM (ELUpj)

522 Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 24, 2017 02:35 PM (mf5HN)

Ok now youre just trying to make me cry.

Posted by: Some moron at March 24, 2017 02:42 PM (1G2ms)

523 And this phony metric about how many people have health insurance, when the question is how many people have access to health care.

The Feds should issue free health care to every American that only covers getting hit by a truck. It will be 4 Billion/year total. Make it a taxable benefit and its 3.9 B. Now everyone has health insurance. Look after the rest yourself. Buy your own fkking birth control pills.

I have spoken.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at March 24, 2017 02:42 PM (kfcYC)

524 Who knew the path to single-payer health care was through the GOP. Cuz that's all that's left now...

Posted by: Future Medical Tourist at March 24, 2017 02:42 PM (qYCgM)

525 506 Comey at the WH.

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/260749/
Posted by: steevy at March 24, 2017 02:38 PM (r/0kC)

Let's hope the Donald is threatening to shave his cat and put a bag of flaming dog poop on his porch.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 24, 2017 02:42 PM (RD7QR)

526 510
Oh I know my insurance has suffered Curmudgeon, especially since I buy on the individual market and have had premiums triple for less coverage. I just wonder why Congress wants to give me more enemas.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 02:39 PM (ODxAs)

I always thought Trump's election was the Political Enema of the Deep State.

As we are discovering, lots of impacted Deep State fecal matter in the colon, and we will need deep long tubed high colonics.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 02:42 PM (ujg0T)

527 Who knew the path to single-payer health care was through the GOP. Cuz that's all that's left now...

Posted by: Future Medical Tourist at March 24, 2017 02:42 PM (qYCgM)

This is not true.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:42 PM (f5uaD)

528 511 I would like there to be a law that required alll politicians to first beg the voters forgiveness before speaking any other words.
--

The house.gov websites should have a mandatory picture of the representative holding a hand-drawn sign that says "I'm sorry."

Posted by: Geronimo Stilton at March 24, 2017 02:43 PM (4bKiB)

529 Comey at the WH

hope P-DJT is making him an offer he can't refuse

Posted by: runner at March 24, 2017 02:43 PM (+JCjY)

530 525 506 Comey at the WH.

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/260749/
Posted by: steevy at March 24, 2017 02:38 PM (r/0kC)

Let's hope the Donald is threatening to shave his cat and put a bag of flaming dog poop on his porch.
Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 24, 2017 02:42 PM (RD7QR)

===================

They're plotting the big reveal in the season finale where Comey announces that there is nothing between Russia and the Trump administration worthy of investigation.

Mostly, they're deciding which Democrats should be in attendance at the announcement.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:43 PM (ELUpj)

531 hope P-DJT is making him an offer he can't refuse

Hope they're putting the cuffs on him

Posted by: Jan Brady at March 24, 2017 02:43 PM (O2RFr)

532 506 Comey at the WH.

He's just discussing his grandchildren and his daughter's wedding.

Posted by: ALH at March 24, 2017 02:44 PM (uLuPn)

533 Comey at the WH

Did they set up a clown cannon in the Rose Garden? Could they hit the Lincoln Memorial with him from there?

Posted by: JEM at March 24, 2017 02:44 PM (TppKb)

534 Hell I remember when Ace banned you for your extreme interest in genetic superiority....

Posted by: The Grooveline at March 24, 2017 02:29 PM (fi5nC)

What's your point?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 24, 2017 02:44 PM (rF0hx)

535 510
Oh I know my insurance has suffered Curmudgeon, especially since I buy on the individual market and have had premiums triple for less coverage. I just wonder why Congress wants to give me more enemas.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 02:39 PM (ODxAs)

Maybe Ryan's into that sort of thing. NTTAWWT.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 24, 2017 02:44 PM (RD7QR)

536 ***No you won't. You'll just keep screaming that this is just a sly way for the Vichy Republicans to extend Obamacare.***

We would NEVER do that!

Posted by: Vichy Republicans at March 24, 2017 02:44 PM (Lj7ZS)

537 Theory: Shia LaBeouf is secretly conservative, and anonymously feeds hints to 4chan.
Posted by: Max Power

Too complicated.

Simpler, non-Occam violating answer; he's another pathologically guilty H-wood rube with an ego that matches his wealth.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 24, 2017 02:40 PM (GgzGa)

The one thing keeping me from truly reveling in all of this is the fact that Shia LeBeouf has actual mental illness issues. I don't mean hahaha he's an actor and he's so vain he thinks this /pol/ is about him. I mean he's been hospitalized. So yeah he isn't really all there.

That being said, they didn't really try to hide it this time. /pol/ started up with okay when does the sun rise and when does it set and there are birds and can we figure out the species and someone said "dude, they put on the website the name of the place that's doing it now" and people toddled over there and yup it was on the roof.

The Assassin Creed/District B13 to hop over to get it was awesome though.

Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 24, 2017 02:45 PM (mf5HN)

538 If the bill passes the House, I'm confident that McConnell will get all those moderate Republican Senators to vote for it.

Posted by: Born This Very Fucking Second at March 24, 2017 02:45 PM (qYCgM)

539 508 Okay, the first step in repealing Obamacare. How about you try being as honest for a change.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:37 PM (/tuJf)

Paste what I was allegedly dishonest about. I'll wait.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2017 02:38 PM (zc3Db)

Well, Trump and Ryan said that the plan had 3 steps and promised that if we're patient and just wait for a few mor election cycles past the 7 years Republicans have already promised to repeal Obamacare, they'll get around to it.

Paul Ryan and Donald Trump have never said anything that wasn't true before and have untarnished records of truthfulness and following through on everything they say to the letter.

So, you must be lying. Because I want my Skittle Shitting Unicorn, it's my god given right to have it for free, and I paid into it dammit, so there!
/ sarc

Posted by: Damiano at March 24, 2017 02:45 PM (n3oGs)

540 As we are discovering, lots of impacted Deep State fecal matter in the colon, and we will need deep long tubed high colonics.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 02:42 PM (ujg0T)

----------------

That's hawt!

Posted by: Gwenyth Paltrow at March 24, 2017 02:46 PM (Fmupd)

541 With everything going on, quite the time for Comey requesting/getting a meeting with Trump...

Gotta think there is a resignation on the horizon afterwards?

Posted by: H Badger at March 24, 2017 02:46 PM (n/0Nw)

542 So, a big difference between Democrats in Congress and Republicans in Congress is that Democrats seem to be led by doctrinal progressives that are willing to stomp on anyone and anything to get their goals.

At the same time, Republicans seem to be led by those with reasonably solid conservative credentials, but then don't want to upset anyone on the path towards compromise.

How do we help change this dynamic?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:46 PM (ELUpj)

543 The one thing keeping me from truly reveling in all of this is the fact that Shia LeBeouf has actual mental illness issues.

Shia LeBoeuf or whatever the hell he calls himself is somewhat less important to me than any of the twenty dogs probably to be put to death over the next few days at kill shelters fifty miles east of here that I can't take and take care of.

I'd be happy to have him take any of their places.

Posted by: JEM at March 24, 2017 02:47 PM (TppKb)

544 It would be great if they could change it back to where it was before Obamacare was passed.

Low deductibles and affordable rates.

Posted by: ALH at March 24, 2017 02:37 PM (uLuPn)

They can... the people who are currently enjoying the graft of Obamacare don't want them to.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:47 PM (f5uaD)

545 Comey at the WH.

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/260749/

Posted by: steevy at March 24, 2017 02:38 PM (r/0kC)

~~Carlo~~ Comey today I settled all family business. Only, don't tell me you're innocent. Because it insults my intelligence and makes me very angry. Admit what you did.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 24, 2017 02:47 PM (493sH)

546 Maybe Comey is Barzini?

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 24, 2017 02:47 PM (RD7QR)

547 Locuts!

Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 24, 2017 02:35 PM (mf5HN)

Oooh....showing some cleavage?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 24, 2017 02:47 PM (rF0hx)

548 Trump walks out of Rose Garden door, tosses Comey's severed head in the bushes, goes back inside to finish yuge taco salad lunch.

Posted by: Dang at March 24, 2017 02:47 PM (8b+oT)

549 Some guy from the Freedom Caucus is being interviewed on FBN. He said the first bill out did not contain the "essential benefits" portion. They added it two days ago, so now he is a yes vote for the bill.

Not sure how that conforms to the "Freedom caucus" ideology.

Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2017 02:48 PM (Enq6K)

550 How do we help change this dynamic?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:46 PM (ELUpj)

Buy all of them great big stompy boots with spikes all over the bottom of them.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:48 PM (f5uaD)

551 Low deductibles and affordable rates.

Posted by: ALH at March 24, 2017 02:37 PM (uLuPn)

They can... the people who are currently enjoying the graft of Obamacare don't want them to.
Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:47 PM (f5uaD)

*cough*Congressmen*cough*

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 24, 2017 02:49 PM (0mRoj)

552 #511
I think Mel Gibson has the winning on quote regarding what happens first.

Posted by: OCBill at March 24, 2017 02:49 PM (df+Zi)

553 Some guy from the Freedom Caucus is being
interviewed on FBN. He said the first bill out did not contain the
"essential benefits" portion. They added it two days ago, so now he is a
yes vote for the bill.

Not sure how that conforms to the "Freedom caucus" ideology.

Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2017 02:48 PM (Enq6K)

What guy was this.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:49 PM (f5uaD)

554 *wanders over*

Amy Schumer out of the Barbie movie due to "scheduling conflicts"

http://abcn.ws/2o06IaH

*wanders over there*

Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 24, 2017 02:49 PM (mf5HN)

555 How do we help change this dynamic?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

term limits

Posted by: Rick in SK at March 24, 2017 02:50 PM (FZYNt)

556 How do we help change this dynamic?
----

Hot take: embarrassing the bejeezus out of Ryan every time he tries to negotiate a compromise would be a start.

Posted by: Geronimo Stilton at March 24, 2017 02:50 PM (4bKiB)

557 *cough*Congressmen*cough*

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 24, 2017 02:49 PM (0mRoj)

Yes, those people:-/

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:50 PM (f5uaD)

558 Amy Schumer out of the Barbie movie due to "scheduling conflicts"

Not enough time to heal up from the liposuction before filming starts?

Posted by: ALH at March 24, 2017 02:50 PM (uLuPn)

559 Why can't they just real Obamacare and start from there?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 24, 2017 02:50 PM (fDdVG)

560 If I were in Trump's position, I would call for the vote and let the republicans know that I will record every "no" vote and remember who cast it.

And they will pay.

Dearly.

It takes a true leader to drag this bag of losing dicks over the finish line. Our side is so used to being fucked in the ass that they feel they're missing out if someone isn't lubing them up.

Time to show these wimps what it's like to win the big game and fuck cheerleaders two at a time.

Go for it.

Posted by: jwest at March 24, 2017 02:50 PM (Zs4uk)

561 Could not agree more on this. Hopefully - because Republicans don't mange optics well - they can take this on in a more measured timeframe with plenty of debate.

Maybe they can even put the mantle of Obamacare back squarely in the Democrats' loss column. As opposed to a hastily put together program that was rammed through and will leave the Republicans with virtually no public support and divided Party support.

Posted by: RM at March 24, 2017 02:51 PM (U3LtS)

562 What guy was this.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:49 PM (f5uaD)

Older guy...white hair. Kinda looked like a Jeff Sessions chubby brother. I missed his name.

Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2017 02:51 PM (Enq6K)

563 549 Some guy from the Freedom Caucus is being interviewed on FBN. He said the first bill out did not contain the "essential benefits" portion. They added it two days ago, so now he is a yes vote for the bill.

Not sure how that conforms to the "Freedom caucus" ideology.
Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2017 02:48 PM (Enq6K)

Essential Benefits: Congress Critter Freedom got a building with his name on it, extra funding in his campaign account, a prime committee spot, and a free pass the the Members of Congress hookers and beer room.

You know. The important stuff. Now that the appropriate personal bribes and graft are in place, we can move forward.

Posted by: Damiano at March 24, 2017 02:51 PM (n3oGs)

564 If they force a vote today and know it's going down, does Ryan allow the hostages to vote their consciences? If so, will it even get 50 yes votes?

Posted by: Froward. at March 24, 2017 02:51 PM (qYCgM)

565 Why can't they just real Obamacare and start from there? <<<<<<<

Graft and corruption isn't just for democrats, you know.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 24, 2017 02:52 PM (ODxAs)

566 Oooh....showing some cleavage?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 24, 2017 02:47 PM (rF0hx)

Hey, if you want to see locust cleavage, that's fine. I don't judge.

Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 24, 2017 02:52 PM (mf5HN)

567 548 Trump walks out of Rose Garden door, tosses Comey's severed head in the bushes, goes back inside to finish yuge taco salad lunch.

Posted by: Dang at March 24, 2017 02:47 PM (8b+oT)

nom nom nom

Posted by: @votermom @vm pimping great books usually free or sale at March 24, 2017 02:52 PM (Om16U)

568 This is kind of what I mean. The reason that Trump is "growing tired of the whole thing" is because he isn't. He understands that he can't do anything else on his agenda until this issue is settled one way or another.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:34 PM (/tuJf)

Uh.... why? Can't the Legislature Multi Task?

There are HUNDREDS of members, with THOUSANDS of staffers...

Why say they can only do ONE thing at a time?

Posted by: Don Q. at March 24, 2017 02:52 PM (NgKpN)

569 If I were in Trump's position, I would call for the
vote and let the republicans know that I will record every "no" vote and
remember who cast it.

And they will pay.

Dearly.

It takes a true leader to drag this bag of losing dicks over the
finish line. Our side is so used to being fucked in the ass that they
feel they're missing out if someone isn't lubing them up.

Time to show these wimps what it's like to win the big game and fuck cheerleaders two at a time.

Go for it.

Posted by: jwest at March 24, 2017 02:50 PM (Zs4uk)

Trump was elected President not God and both he and every congressman got elected to do what their voters want them to. Their voters don't want this and Trump will be making a BIG mistake if he makes this about his ego.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:52 PM (f5uaD)

570 ??What structural reasons? That's an honest question. I am not sure what you mean by structural in this formulation.

Trump had planned to do Tax Reform under budget reconciliation as well. But unlike this bill which is being done under the 2017 budget thanks to a measure which passed on January 12th, Tax Reform was intended to be done under the 2018 budget.

By law, you can't start working on 2018 issues until the 2017 budget is done with.

But there's more. One of the rules of budget reconciliation is that it can't increase spending, only cut and the scoring for that is done by none other than the CBO. The original bill was scored with a savings of nearly $400 billion, down to $150 with the Freedom Caucus' amendments. Those saving were intended to be used to help offset tax cuts. Without it, tax cuts will be less generous.

Yes, I know, tax cuts spur economic growth and increased tax revenues but that is not how CBO scores things. And in any budgetary year, only 3 things can be done under reconciliation and the plan for 2018 was Tax reform, budget and debt limit.

And then of course there is the Congressional calendar. By the time they actually get a massive Tax Reform bill through Congress we are probably in the late summer or early fall. And there won't be reconciliation available.

So maybe they blow up the filibuster. Because there isn't a shadow of a doubt in my mind that all 52 Senators will vote for a 100% repeal.

Uh huh.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:53 PM (/tuJf)

571 Uh.... why? Can't the Legislature Multi Task?

Hahahahahahahahahaha...

Posted by: Jan Brady at March 24, 2017 02:53 PM (O2RFr)

572 How do we help change this dynamic?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:46 PM (ELUpj)

Let Something Burn. Anything. As a lesson.

They won't.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 24, 2017 02:53 PM (/BTP8)

573 Half an hour.
Tick, tick.

Posted by: m at March 24, 2017 02:53 PM (Gqgs8)

574 Unnamed sources on Capitol Hill have confirmed to CNN that Trump offered to pimp his wife out for votes.

Posted by: Corrupt Media at March 24, 2017 02:53 PM (qYCgM)

575 Couldn't agree more. Besides, Trump essentially trashed every ounce of political wisdom over the past 16? months.

Do we really think what a pundit declares today matters?

Posted by: Christian Toto at March 24, 2017 02:54 PM (eTv0F)

576 Not sure how that conforms to the "Freedom caucus" ideology.

If you can move the coverage requirements back to the states that's a significant chunk of the battle.

The real question is this: where do you draw the line on 'community rating'? There's a big difference between a broken leg and $100K/year cancer drugs.

And do we really continue to let pharma charge US payers rack rate while the Brits and the Dutch get them for fifteen cents on the dollar and the Indians knock them off? We should not. Period. Like NATO, make them pay their way.

Posted by: JEM at March 24, 2017 02:54 PM (TppKb)

577 >>Amy Schumer out of the Barbie movie due to "scheduling conflicts"

Just a wild ass guess: The producers saw the trailer for her new vacation comedy with Goldie Hawn and thought, "I cannot hoist that rude, crude, puffy tramp on kids and pretend it's cool. Not with Disney casting sweet young things like Emma Watson."

Posted by: Lizzy at March 24, 2017 02:54 PM (NOIQH)

578 I think Trump will tick this off his todo list and move one. He made a promise during his campaign and tried to keep it. He will now move on to the next issue. He strikes me as the type of guy who likes to get things done and doesn't dwell over any one particular item.

The ACA will fall apart next year anyway. It has already been announced that there will be no exchange providers in my area by the end of the year and my city is decent sized at around a half million people. You can't buy what doesn't exist. But you can still be penalized for not buying it. That is when things will come to a head.

Posted by: Thatch at March 24, 2017 02:54 PM (CWGHX)

579 Why can't they just [repeal] Obamacare and start from there?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 24, 2017 02:50 PM (fDdVG)

Because they're pussies and collaborators. They might have to nuke the filibuster to get a straight repeal through the Senate and they are scared to even think about this. But totally getting rid of BarkyCare - tearing it out in whole - is far more important than the Senate filibuster. BarkyCare is as un-American and un-Constitutional as it gets. It is a fatal cancer. There should be priorities among those who claim to respect and adhere to the Constitution.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2017 02:55 PM (zc3Db)

580 Okay, the first step in repealing Obamacare. How about you try being as honest for a change.
---
It isn't any such thing. Step 1 is the only step that even pretends to be repealing anything. Step 2 is entirely executive action (where the term repeal doesn't apply). Step 3 is unrelated stuff Ryan dreamed up in his dorm room.

There is no point under the Ryan plan when obamacare is repealed.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn at March 24, 2017 02:55 PM (3Liv/)

581 579 Why can't they just [repeal] Obamacare and start from there?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 24, 2017 02:50 PM (fDdVG)

Because they're pussies and collaborators. They might have to nuke the filibuster to get a straight repeal through the Senate and they are scared to even think about this. But totally getting rid of BarkyCare - tearing it out in whole - is far more important than the Senate filibuster. BarkyCare is as un-American and un-Constitutional as it gets. It is a fatal cancer. There should be priorities among those who claim to respect and adhere to the Constitution.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2017 02:55 PM (zc3Db)

Damn. I heard the national anthem playing and heard the cry of an eagle while reading that.

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 24, 2017 02:56 PM (0mRoj)

582 rhomboid, if you are still around, where do you think the Ryan bill would leave us who own small businesses and have been absolutely clobbered with insane premiums since Obamacare was passed?

I'm talking about $35K annually for healthcare for two people.

Posted by: RM at March 24, 2017 02:56 PM (U3LtS)

583 572
Let Something Burn. Anything. As a lesson.

They won't.
Posted by: ScoggDog at March 24, 2017 02:53 PM (/BTP

===================

Taking out Cantor didn't seem to leave a large mark in their minds.

I really think it's not changing the attitudes of those currently there, but getting those fighters into leadership posts.

But, from what I've heard, it borderline impossible to get into a leadership post without current leadership's tacit approval.

We need a sleeper agent, that rises in the ranks and then lets out his ideological purity and fighting spirit when the power can't be taken from him.

I have 0 idea of how to make that happen.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:57 PM (ELUpj)

584 "Amy Schumer out of the Barbie movie due to "scheduling conflicts"

-----

Not being funny takes a ton of time.

Posted by: Dang at March 24, 2017 02:57 PM (8b+oT)

585 Amy Schumer out of the Barbie movie due to "scheduling conflicts"

Just a wild ass guess: The producers saw the trailer for her new vacation comedy with Goldie Hawn and thought, "I cannot hoist that rude, crude, puffy tramp on kids and pretend it's cool.

Yeah. Whose conflicts? Pretty sure Ol' Amy doesn't have enough "conflicts" to keep her from making money.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 24, 2017 02:57 PM (eauMe)

586 Ace is trying to distract us with a female orgasm nood.

Posted by: filbert at March 24, 2017 02:57 PM (s5o+q)

587 Yeah. Whose conflicts? Pretty sure Ol' Amy doesn't have enough "conflicts" to keep her from making money

Maybe the issue is there aren't any live-action Barbie movies that she can plagiarize acting methods from.

Posted by: VA GOP Sucks at March 24, 2017 02:58 PM (PFy0L)

588 Trump was elected President not God and both he and every congressman got elected to do what their voters want them to. Their voters don't want this and Trump will be making a BIG mistake if he makes this about his ego.
Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:52 PM (f5uaD)

Trump was elected to lead this ball-less rabble of losers to political victory in spite of themselves. No amount of time or discussion is going to improve whatever plan is on the table.

Do something - even if it's wrong.

Do not allow the democrats a win. If they do, the game is over.

Ryan says "you can't force someone to vote a certain way". That's total bullshit.

You can threaten, cajole, blackmail and promise to make that person's life a living hell if they don't do exactly what you want.

That's politics.

Posted by: jwest at March 24, 2017 02:58 PM (Zs4uk)

589
Br'er Obama sure did create one hell of a tar baby.

I condemn myself.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 24, 2017 02:58 PM (ZFUt7)

590 586 Ace is trying to distract us with a female orgasm nood.
Posted by: filbert at March 24, 2017 02:57 PM (s5o+q)

==================

We're not even at 600!

We have more beat downs to give on this topic!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 02:58 PM (ELUpj)

591 rhomboid, if you are still around, where do you
think the Ryan bill would leave us who own small businesses and have
been absolutely clobbered with insane premiums since Obamacare was
passed?

I'm talking about $35K annually for healthcare for two people.

Posted by: RM at March 24, 2017 02:56 PM (U3LtS)

You will still be clobbered.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:58 PM (f5uaD)

592 585 Amy Schumer out of the Barbie movie due to "scheduling conflicts"

Just a wild ass guess: The producers saw the trailer for her new vacation comedy with Goldie Hawn and thought, "I cannot hoist that rude, crude, puffy tramp on kids and pretend it's cool.

Yeah. Whose conflicts? Pretty sure Ol' Amy doesn't have enough "conflicts" to keep her from making money.
Posted by: rickb223 at March 24, 2017 02:57 PM (eauMe)

I'd be willing to bomb in front of audiences for far less money than they're throwing at her to do the same thing. Since I'm not a porky, foul-mouthed unfunny womyn, that will never happen though.

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 24, 2017 02:59 PM (0mRoj)

593 And that's why you need /sarc tags.

Poe's Law, like Rule 34, is estabished.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 02:33 PM (ujg0T)
-----------------------------------
Actually an ARRRG would have been better. Perhaps I should use that to indicate when I'm sad and a YAY when I'm happy.

Posted by: Javems at March 24, 2017 02:59 PM (yOqwj)

594 Trump was elected President not God and both he and
every congressman got elected to do what their voters want them to.
Their voters don't want this and Trump will be making a BIG mistake if
he makes this about his ego.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 02:52 PM (f5uaD)

Trump was elected to lead this ball-less rabble of losers to
political victory in spite of themselves. No amount of time or
discussion is going to improve whatever plan is on the table.

Do something - even if it's wrong.

Do not allow the democrats a win. If they do, the game is over.

Ryan says "you can't force someone to vote a certain way". That's total bullshit.

You can threaten, cajole, blackmail and promise to make that
person's life a living hell if they don't do exactly what you want.

That's politics.

Posted by: jwest at March 24, 2017 02:58 PM (Zs4uk)

That is stupidity.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 03:00 PM (f5uaD)

595 Not sure how that conforms to the "Freedom caucus" ideology.

If you can move the coverage requirements back to the states that's a significant chunk of the battle.

The real question is this: where do you draw the line on 'community
rating'? There's a big difference between a broken leg and $100K/year
cancer drugs.

And do we really continue to let pharma charge US payers rack rate
while the Brits and the Dutch get them for fifteen cents on the dollar
and the Indians knock them off? We should not. Period. Like NATO,
make them pay their way.

Posted by: JEM at March 24, 2017 02:54 PM (TppKb)

How does including the essential benefits in the new bill move the coverage requirements back to the states? I'm missing something here.

Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2017 03:00 PM (Enq6K)

596 "How do we help change this dynamic?"
President Trump publicly decries the self-serving
partisanship and 'bi-partisanship' of the professional politicians and
their cohorts, declares himself Independent, and goes full-on honey
badger including whipping the citizenry into a lynch-mob frenzy against
said professional politicians and their cohorts.That's my fantasy and I'm sticking to it.

Posted by: davidt at March 24, 2017 03:00 PM (XoldI)

597 If I were in Trump's position, I would call for the vote and let the
republicans know that I will record every "no" vote and remember who
cast it.

And they will pay.

Dearly.
---
Yes, there will be a huge price to pay for opposing a bill that has 17-56 support nationwide.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn at March 24, 2017 03:00 PM (3Liv/)

598 "where do you think the Ryan bill would leave us who own small businesses"

Still thoroughly boned. Perhaps in ways even worse off.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 24, 2017 03:00 PM (noWW6)

599 Trump is an idiot for demanding a vote, but we already knew that the man is stupid.

Ryan is a fool for obeying. He's under no obligation to do so and almost certainly knows it's a mistake.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 24, 2017 03:01 PM (4AwD7)

600 Marketing is tanking....

Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2017 03:01 PM (Enq6K)

601 >>How does including the essential benefits in the new bill move the coverage requirements back to the states? I'm missing something here.

The Freedom Caucus amendment ends the coverage requirement.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 03:01 PM (/tuJf)

602 ace seems to have a new one up about how males should be embarrassed for being good lays.

Posted by: JEM at March 24, 2017 03:01 PM (TppKb)

603 Part of Trump's team wanted to let Obamacare reach its full potential of suck before they killed it. I kinda agree with that, for the blue states that want to keep it. Let the blue citizens who say its so damn good feel those rising premiums and diminishing benefits. Eff 'em. Give everyone an option to get the hell out and into an alternative republican plan.

Posted by: Dang at March 24, 2017 03:02 PM (8b+oT)

604 Yes, there will be a huge price to pay for opposing a bill that has 17-56 support nationwide.
Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn at March 24, 2017 03:00 PM (3Liv/)

Yeah, if Trump doesn't get his poll numbers up, Hillary is going to win bigger than she already is.

Posted by: jwest at March 24, 2017 03:02 PM (Zs4uk)

605 The yuuuge-beyond-expectation opening weekend for Beauty and the Beast would indicate that there are plenty of kids and parents who will fork over $$ for a traditional Disney movie with a few tweaks to appeal to modern sensibilities (amp up grrrl power, gay-ish character). Bet they go with a toned down version of modern Barbie - not the ballsy, irreverent (crude) feminist Barbie Schumer would have been.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 24, 2017 03:03 PM (NOIQH)

606 603 Part of Trump's team wanted to let Obamacare reach its full potential of suck before they killed it. I kinda agree with that, for the blue states that want to keep it. Let the blue citizens who say its so damn good feel those rising premiums and diminishing benefits. Eff 'em. Give everyone an option to get the hell out and into an alternative republican plan.
Posted by: Dang at March 24, 2017 03:02 PM (8b+oT)

====================

Resolved: Any state that wishes to remove any and all financial and regulatory obligations towards and in response to the ACA may do so without penalty from the federal government.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 24, 2017 03:03 PM (ELUpj)

607 It's going to be an early afternoon.

Posted by: William Wyn at March 24, 2017 03:04 PM (IqV8l)

608 I hope Trump makes the point that a lot of the pushback from the Rs was about process, and the fact that apparently a lot had to be destroyed before some new stuff could get built. This is fundamentally the same as the "reconciliation" process the Dems used in the first place. He should point out that when the Dems had the Presidency and the Congress they used reconciliation and there wasn't a peep of protest from the ranks: Dems fall into line quietly when their leaders tell them to, because they all want the same thing - power.

While the DemMedia are chortling about the Republicans being "in disarray", Trump should make the point that Republicans fight over actual principles, and how those impact their constituents, while Democrats compete to see who can goose-step highest in obedience to tinpot tyrants like Pelosi and Schumer.

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at March 24, 2017 03:04 PM (LeUrG)

609 Ryan is a fool for obeying. He's under no obligation to do so and almost certainly knows it's a mistake.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 24, 2017 03:01 PM (4AwD7)

I suspect Ryan is trying to offload responsibility for this horrendous bill on anyone else. Trump is stupid to fall for it.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 03:04 PM (f5uaD)

610 *puts index finger in splint *

Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 24, 2017 03:04 PM (GgzGa)

611 Anyway, Atc, I hope that answered your question.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 03:04 PM (/tuJf)

612 Trump was elected to lead this ball-less rabble of losers to political victory in spite of themselves. No amount of time or discussion is going to improve whatever plan is on the table.

Do something - even if it's wrong.

Do not allow the (opponents) a win. If they do, the game is over.

Ryan says "you can't force someone to vote a certain way". That's total bullshit.

You can threaten, cajole, blackmail and promise to make that person's life a living hell if they don't do exactly what you want.

That's politics.

Posted by: jwest at March 24, 2017 02:58 PM (Zs4uk)

That is stupidity.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 03:00 PM (f5uaD)

Oh really?

Posted by: Zombie LBJ at March 24, 2017 03:05 PM (ujg0T)

613 571 Uh.... why? Can't the Legislature Multi Task?
........

They do!

- They have a breakfast meeting with lobbyists at the crack of 10:30 AM,
-An appointment at the free Congressional hair salon at 11:15,
- Lunch with leadership (and more lobbyists) at noon
- nap time from 12:45 till 3:30
- call to their nanny to see if she picked the kids of from school at 3:45
- planning meeting for next weeks cocktail party at 4
- cocktail party at 5
- dinner with lobbyists at 6:30
- meeting with reporters at 8 pm to leak classified info in exchange for puff pieces
- the kardashians come on at 9
- the hooker is scheduled for 10:15
- massage at 11...

Next week is out because they will be on a fact finding mission to Tahoe (they are not a representative for NV or any nearby state)

Recess for 6 weeks after that, followed by a family vacate after recess, followed by a congressional retreat.

And all of this happens without them ever setting foot in the Capital Building! What do you expect of them? They're only human!

Posted by: Damiano at March 24, 2017 03:05 PM (n3oGs)

614 The Freedom Caucus amendment ends the coverage requirement.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 03:01 PM (/tuJf)

That's not what I heard that particular Freedom Caucus member saying.
Rep. Joe Barton said, "The bill that came out of committees did not include the essential benefits in it but it was put in it two days ago and that's what got me to a yes."
That's almost word for word what he said.

Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2017 03:06 PM (Enq6K)

615 I no longer really care what the bill says, or anything about Phase 1 through N where N is an arbitrarily unrealistic number, or who is asking too much of whom.

The GOP had how long to plan for this day? And they still manage to make a complete and utter round-robin Charlie Foxtrot of it?

And they wonder why I don't trust the GOP...?

Posted by: Brother Cavil, keeper of the Deplorable Unicode Character at March 24, 2017 03:06 PM (9krrF)

616 Oh really?

Posted by: Zombie LBJ at March 24, 2017 03:05 PM (ujg0T)

"Do something - even if it is wrong."

Yes, that is stupidity of the highest order.

At this point, let Obamacare fail on its own and then come back with a real repeal. "Yes, Minister" politics of the: "something must be done, this is something, therefore we must do this" is always stupid.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 03:08 PM (f5uaD)

617 And then of course there is the Congressional calendar. By the time they actually get a massive Tax Reform bill through Congress we are probably in the late summer or early fall. And there won't be reconciliation available.

So maybe they blow up the filibuster. Because there isn't a shadow of a doubt in my mind that all 52 Senators will vote for a 100% repeal.

Uh huh.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 02:53 PM (/tuJf)

First of all, thank you for your response and that's sincere.

II. And this is what I thought. You are using structural reasons in manners that are very very very different indeed from that which I am using.

All of those matters that you cited, and we'll get back to the budget part in a moment, are not structural as in part of the structure set up by the Constitution. Those are structural as in per the rules as enacted by the House and Senate. I'm sorry, but I do not accept the notion that such rules are as binding as you and others keep stating.

Look, I give you credit for deep diving on this stuff but you appear to accept the premise that those rules are sacrosanct and, from my perspective, that is the huge disconnect between what you are stating and my and other's dissatisfaction. Oh we can't do this because the rules say such and such. Yes but don't you control the rules?

And let us get back to that budget you just mentioned. What budget? Again, that is a dead serious question. What budget? I finally gave up following this due to a need to manage my rage levels but last I knew there was no budget, just the monstrosities of continuing resolutions. And, no, that is NOT the same thing. So, I'm sorry, but yammering away about oh budget this and budget that is utterly unconvincing when we most certainly appeared to be able to handle other matters during the past many years when there was no budget.

This notion that I should respect the structure of the House and Senate when the House and Senate will not even pass a budget is atrocious. I have exactly and precisely, tuned to the finest degree, amount of respect for the structures of the House and Senate as Congressmen and Senators do for their responsibility to pass a budget.

As far as the Congressional calendar and the like, please cite for me, with specific citations to the relevant statutory authority, where it says that Congress may not consider multiple topics simultaneously. Again, that is a serious question. Spare me the political reality justifications. Because, you see, that appears to neglect the actual reality, a fact, if you will, that I and others like me are also part of political reality.

Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 24, 2017 03:08 PM (mf5HN)

618 "You will still be clobbered."

That is my take as well. Thanks for the input.

Posted by: RM at March 24, 2017 03:10 PM (U3LtS)

619 >>That's almost word for word what he said.

Unless it was pulled somehow this morning and nobody is reporting it, sounds like he is wrong.

Anyway, happy hour calls.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 03:11 PM (/tuJf)

620 Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 24, 2017 03:08 PM (mf5HN)

Very well put.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2017 03:13 PM (zc3Db)

621 "Do something - even if it is wrong."

Yes, that is stupidity of the highest order.

At this point, let Obamacare fail on its own and then come back with a real repeal. "Yes, Minister" politics of the: "something must be done, this is something, therefore we must do this" is always stupid.
Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 03:08 PM (f5uaD)

"Do something if it is mostly good", would be a much better way to phrase it.

Or instead of Zombie LBJ, who, yes, DID get his way by political arm twisting, let us instead think Zombie Patton:

"A good plan--executed NOW--is better than the Perfect Plan executed next week....."

Keeping initiative and keeping the Demunists and Pansy Grahamnestys on the run matters.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 03:13 PM (ujg0T)

622 >>Look, I give you credit for deep diving on this stuff but you appear to accept the premise that those rules are sacrosanct and, from my perspective, that is the huge disconnect between what you are stating and my and other's dissatisfaction. Oh we can't do this because the rules say such and such. Yes but don't you control the rules?

No. I accept the premise that the Republican caucus in Congress is widely diverse and not some monolithic block that some appear to believe. As I have noted previously, there are at least 4 senators who have already publicly and repeatedly said that they will not vote for a straight repeal bill that does not deal with Medicaid expansion.

It doesn't make a bit of difference if you blow up the filibuster or change rules, you still need a majority to pass anything in the Senate. Full stop. There is no rule that allows for the special "But I Really Want It" clause.

You aren't getting any Democrat votes for this or likely any other Republican initiative. This isn't the collegial days of Tip O'Neal. These are the days were the Minority Leader in the Senate votes against the Majority Leaders wife for a cabinet position and where one of the most qualified people in a long, long time nominated for a SC seat is being threatened with a filibuster. This is tribal warfare time.

So if you can show me, with or without puppets, how you get to a straight repeal bill in the Senate that nobody else in DC sees, including Trump, then I'm all ears.

But those ears are going with the rest of me right now to Happy Hour so I'll check back later.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 24, 2017 03:17 PM (/tuJf)

623 "Do something if it is mostly good", would be a much better way to phrase it.

Or instead of Zombie LBJ, who, yes, DID get his way by political arm twisting, let us instead think Zombie Patton:

"A good plan--executed NOW--is better than the Perfect Plan executed next week....."

Keeping initiative and keeping the Demunists and Pansy Grahamnestys on the run matters.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 03:13 PM (ujg0T)

Thank you for that reply.

You have more patience with idiots than I do.

Posted by: jwest at March 24, 2017 03:17 PM (Zs4uk)

624 Thank you for that reply.

You have more patience with idiots than I do.
Posted by: jwest at March 24, 2017 03:17 PM (Zs4uk)

Meh. We are 90% on the same side; it is that 10% that trips us up.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 03:19 PM (ujg0T)

625 "Do something - even if it is wrong."

Yes, that is stupidity of the highest order.

At this point, let Obamacare fail on its own and then come back with
a real repeal. "Yes, Minister" politics of the: "something must be
done, this is something, therefore we must do this" is always stupid.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 03:08 PM (f5uaD)

"Do something if it is mostly good", would be a much better way to phrase it.

Or instead of Zombie LBJ, who, yes, DID get his way by political arm twisting, let us instead think Zombie Patton:

"A good plan--executed NOW--is better than the Perfect Plan executed next week....."

Keeping initiative and keeping the Demunists and Pansy Grahamnestys on the run matters.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 24, 2017 03:13 PM (ujg0T)

Ryancare is not good... it is not even all that different from what is in place now. This is not an instance of the perfect being the enemy of the good, this is an instance of this in no way is repeal and that is what we need.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 03:19 PM (f5uaD)

626 As I have noted previously, there are at least 4 senators who have
already publicly and repeatedly said that they will not vote for a
straight repeal bill that does not deal with Medicaid expansion.
---
Then they are the ones that should be held up for public ridicule for breaking the promise to repeal obamacare, not the Freedom Caucus.

Until such time as they can be replaced.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn at March 24, 2017 03:20 PM (3Liv/)

627 As I have noted previously, there are at least 4 senators who have

already publicly and repeatedly said that they will not vote for a

straight repeal bill that does not deal with Medicaid expansion.
---
Then
they are the ones that should be held up for public ridicule for
breaking the promise to repeal obamacare, not the Freedom Caucus.

Until such time as they can be replaced.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn at March 24, 2017 03:20 PM (3Liv/)

This.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 24, 2017 03:22 PM (f5uaD)

628 Maybe this has been an elaborate ploy by Trump to gut Ryan.

Posted by: OCBill at March 24, 2017 03:29 PM (n8DqV)

629 Ryan called off the vote. Good.

Posted by: VA GOP Sucks at March 24, 2017 03:52 PM (XXWVx)

630 Ryan on.

Posted by: m at March 24, 2017 04:05 PM (Gqgs8)

631 Questions.

Posted by: m at March 24, 2017 04:08 PM (Gqgs8)

632 Ace is a philosopher. Thanks, Ace.

Posted by: mikeyboss at March 24, 2017 04:39 PM (uXdQA)

633 Ace. Still spinning abject failure after all these years

Posted by: Bazza at March 24, 2017 05:01 PM (l9hzu)

634 test comment

Posted by: ArthurK at March 24, 2017 07:33 PM (AVMrq)

635

"This is the political process. Let's just work through the
once-normal political process of dueling op-eds, televised debates, and
exchanges of white papers."
You mean be rational and civilly debate the pros and cons and then mediate a compromise?
Shirley, you jest.

Posted by: Levin at March 24, 2017 07:58 PM (1wjS9)

636 [quote]Baracka left the States without his sweetie
To spend some time abroad, out in Tahiti
Although it's tourist season
That's really not the reason
He thought there was no extradition treaty.
Posted by: Muldoon at March 24, 2017 01:20 PM (wPiJc)[/quote]

Nice iambic pentamerick.

Posted by: Mary in LA at March 25, 2017 03:25 AM (DrYtp)

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