The MSM Then And Now

Rush mentioned this article the other day by a semi-reasonable liberal that was published in the magazine that sold for $1 in 2010.

The article, Why The Media Keeps Losing To Donald Trump, by Hollywood Reporter columnist Michael Wolff, a mild rebuke to the media to stop losing its sh* over Trump every day, starts out like this:

Donald Trump is obsessed with the media. And the media is obsessed with Trump. Let’s take it as a given that this obsession is unhealthy. The last time there was such a level of neurotic fixation and overwhelming distrust between a president and the press was during the Nixon administration. The current White House would be well aware that the press won that war—and that the stakes now can be mortal.

I rate this paragraph: partially true.

It's true that the level of publicly expressed mutual contempt between a sitting president and the MSM is up to Nixonian levels, and in fact, I think it's probably a bit higher. And if it's not, it soon will be. That's because Trump, like Nixon, clearly sees the vipers' nest that is the MSM and furthermore, is not afraid to treat it as such. Trump is just giving back to the MSM what he's been getting, and what's ridiculous about this is how this seems to greatly offend them.

But as for Wolff's caution to Trump that the media won the "war" against Nixon, I say this is meaningless. Wolff is forgetting that the MSM in Nixon's day benefitted from conditions that are no longer in place:

1. Back then, the MSM had a virtual lip lock on the national conversation. It was the 3 nets (NBC, CBS, ABC), and the NYT and the WaPo newspapers that determined what was being talked about, and the way it should be talked about. And that was about it. Yes, there was the National Review and Human Events, and that was about it. No talk radio, no Rush Limbaugh, really nothing at the national level. Not until the FCC under Reagan threw out the antiquated Fairness Doctrine did a thousand conservative flowers bloom. How many of you remember that when Rush first went national in 1989, a number of restaurants throughout the country set aside "Rush rooms" where diners come in and listen to his show while they ate? Because back then conservatives were all like, "happy day, there are people out there who think the same way I do. I'm not the only one."

Of course, now that has changed. There are a crap ton of conservative voices that aren't going away, and I think a lot of progressive tantrum throwing is a result of that. They can't win so much any more, not like they used to. I used to laugh when liberals complained about all the "incivility" in politics and how it wasn't like that in the old days. Well yeah, that's because liberals back then pretty much were able to dictate how things were talked about, and no backtalk was allowed. And conservatives, for the most part, were content to go along with this. It wasn't until when Reagan was elected that conservatives got uppity.

2. Back then, the media was held in much greater esteem by the general public than it is now. So when uncle Walter Cronkhite told his TV news audience that the war in Vietnam was lost, he was believed. After all he was speaking from his prestigious anchor's chair at CBS News, so why wouldn't his ex cathedra proclamation be believed? Of course, later on, it was diiscovered he was pretty much lying his ass off, but never mind that. The point is, his opinion carried a lot of weight. Not so much these days, though. These days, the polling data indicates that most people hold NYC 3-card monte dealers, e-mail from Nigerian royalty and toe fungus in higher esteem than they do journalists.

So, contra Wolff's admonition, I think Donald Trump is winning the war on the MSM. Whatever people think of Trump, they think even less of them. They none of them have figured out how to deal with him. But having said this, this is a war that shouldn't have to be fought. If the MSM were actually doing its job, which is to fairly and accurately report the news, none of this would have been necessary.

Posted by: OregonMuse at 12:05 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 st

Posted by: fixerupper at February 08, 2017 12:05 PM (8XRCm)

2
Wow.... I even read the content too.

Posted by: fixerupper at February 08, 2017 12:06 PM (8XRCm)

3
I have a feeling that Ace's first post will be on this very topic...

Posted by: Soothsayer SLE (Special Limited Edition) at February 08, 2017 12:06 PM (k+Lj0)

4 Agreed. Trump is winning. And will continue to do so.

Posted by: Diogenes at February 08, 2017 12:06 PM (0tfLf)

5 AWESOME!

Posted by: redenzo at February 08, 2017 12:06 PM (5wSNN)

6
tap
tap
tap

...this thing on??

Posted by: fixerupper at February 08, 2017 12:06 PM (8XRCm)

7 Meat the Press.

I like it.

Or press the meat. Either way is good.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 08, 2017 12:07 PM (TOk1P)

8 The MSM are no longer journalists, they're activists.

Unfortunately, many LIVs and senior citizens don't know this. Sad.

Posted by: shibumi, a rational single white female and kitteh servant at February 08, 2017 12:07 PM (J5mC3)

9 But as for Wolff's caution to Trump that the media won the "war" against Nixon, I say this is meaningless.

And false. Even Woodward & Bernstein noted that they didn't cause or drive anything with their reporting, that they were just reporting on what congress was already doing and knew about. The press didn't topple Nixon, despite All The King's Men.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:07 PM (39g3+)

10 David Corn bad acid trip.

Posted by: redenzo at February 08, 2017 12:07 PM (5wSNN)

11 Oh - Hai.

Posted by: garrett at February 08, 2017 12:07 PM (oXKWd)

12 That graphic was better as the Hustler cover.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, gentleman cad at February 08, 2017 12:08 PM (mgbwf)

13 Interesting post. I wonder what winning the Media War means to us. Is it a " hearts and minds" thing, or what?

Posted by: tubal at February 08, 2017 12:08 PM (zSVEm)

14
But Nixon didn't have bloggers and alternative news outlets to combat the Bullshit of the Fake News back then.

Posted by: Soothsayer SLE (Special Limited Edition) at February 08, 2017 12:09 PM (k+Lj0)

15 >>Meat the Press.

>I like it.

>>Or press the meat. Either way is good.

Go with the first one.
Trust me.

Treating the Clap isn't all that.

Posted by: Bill Clinton at February 08, 2017 12:09 PM (oXKWd)

16 Visions of bringing down Republican presidents have been dancing in their heads since Nixon.They couldn't get Reagan.They couldn't get GW.They wont get Trump.

Posted by: steevy at February 08, 2017 12:09 PM (r/0kC)

17 "Try Newsweek for only $1.25 per week"

So they want me to pay them more than the entire magazine is actually worth? Every week?

Nah, brah. We coo'.

Posted by: Pepe le Mooko at February 08, 2017 12:09 PM (9JSAy)

18 But having said this, this is a war that shouldn't have to be fought. If the MSM were actually doing its job, which is to fairly and accurately report the news, none of this would have been necessary.

So very true. Nor would we see the huge difference in ratings that we see now. It will take a generation for the self-licking ice cream cone that is the MSM to fix itself.

Posted by: Diogenes at February 08, 2017 12:09 PM (0tfLf)

19 Donald Trump is obsessed with the media. And the media is obsessed with Trump.

Trump isn't obsessed with the media. He knows how to play them.

He also knows they ARE obsessed with covering the presidency.

Game, set & match to President Trump.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 12:10 PM (2w7OO)

20 But Nixon didn't have bloggers and alternative news outlets to combat the Bullshit of the Fake News back then.

Posted by: Soothsayer SLE (Special Limited Edition) at February 08, 2017 12:09 PM (k+Lj0)

I think that's what OM is saying.

Posted by: Tami at February 08, 2017 12:10 PM (Enq6K)

21 He doesn't need them but they definitely need him. Choke off access and then dole it out to those who play fair.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at February 08, 2017 12:10 PM (RD7QR)

22 I wonder what winning the Media War means to us. Is it a " hearts and minds" thing, or what?
---

I'd call "being objective again" a win.

Hearts and minds ain't gonna happen. Ever.

Posted by: shibumi, a rational single white female and kitteh servant at February 08, 2017 12:10 PM (J5mC3)

23 Visions of bringing down Republican presidents have been dancing in their heads since Nixon.They couldn't get Reagan.They couldn't get GW.They wont get Trump.
Posted by: steevy at February 08, 2017 12:09 PM (r/0kC)

So Trump is the Gingerbread Man.

Posted by: tubal at February 08, 2017 12:10 PM (zSVEm)

24 The MSM are increasingly irrelevant and they know it. It is driving them crazy because they all realize they have lost their leverage and all the things they used to do to make money no longer work. They are shouting at the top of their lungs and waving their arms hoping no one notices they are stark naked.

Posted by: Western Slope Mope at February 08, 2017 12:10 PM (WrMht)

25 So, contra Wolff's admonition, I think Donald Trump is winning the war on the MSM. Whatever people think of Trump, they think even less of them. They none of them have figured out how to deal with him. But having said this, this is a war that shouldn't have to be fought. If the MSM were actually doing its job, which is to fairly and accurately report the news, none of this would have been necessary.

Posted by: OregonMuse at 12:05 PM

===================

It's how he ended up winning against Clinton. The public didn't really like either, but they disliked Trump less than they disliked Clinton.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 12:10 PM (vur0q)

26
Back then, Cronkite was "trusted" by the ignorant American people.

If it was on TV, it must be true!

Today there are far more skeptical people.

Posted by: Soothsayer SLE (Special Limited Edition) at February 08, 2017 12:10 PM (k+Lj0)

27 Agreed. Trump is winning. And will continue to do so.

Posted by: Diogenes at February 08, 2017 12:06 PM (0tfLf)

He's like Babe Ruth. When he came along, he had a skillset that was different enough, that it took more than a couple years for the rest of the league to catch up, and even then he remained the master of his craft for several years more, above and beyond what his peers did.

Trump will keep winning as long as he keeps swinging for the fences with the live ball coming at him, and the other side keeps thinking they're playing in a dead ball era.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 08, 2017 12:11 PM (TOk1P)

28 Trump is the first president in my lifetime who actually fights back against the Media. This is, to employ a phrase, pretty yuuuge.

For every other Republican president, Media hatred was high and unhidden. Just like for every Democrat, the Media had nothing but praise.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at February 08, 2017 12:11 PM (MZcWR)

29 The Wolff who cried "boy."

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 08, 2017 12:11 PM (IqV8l)

30
I think that's what OM is saying.

You read the post?

Posted by: Soothsayer SLE (Special Limited Edition) at February 08, 2017 12:11 PM (k+Lj0)

31 So how does this end?

I don't see either the MSM or Trump backing off, so....how bad will it get?

Posted by: Lizzy at February 08, 2017 12:11 PM (NOIQH)

32 It's funny, in a sad way, though, observing the delicate sensibilities of people who are otherwise sane non-moonbats being ruffled by Trump's style and behavior.

At a shootin' match last weekend, I overheard one guy sort of lamenting that Trump should NOT be on Twitter any more - even though so far his actions were all great and very welcome.

I understand the reaction, but don't share it, and realize it's naive to the extent such people think it will actually have an effect. It won't.

Posted by: rhomboid at February 08, 2017 12:11 PM (QDnY+)

33 The problem is that this is third generation bad news media. The first generation bad was Cronkite etc who controlled the news but while biased were pretty good about digging into everyone, they would report bad about Democrats -- by party name -- even while focusing on Republicans.

Second generation bad news media was the guys that came after, who decided that they should bury or just not mention Democrat party affiliation, and ignore bad press against the left because the right is evil so anything you do is fine to stop them.

This generation has a lot of people in it who were teens when Obama was elected and know little else, and are freaking out when someone other than Obama is in office because that's how things always were, man. They are not even trying to do journalism any longer, because they got so used to just being handed their stories by the White House and now that its a different group are scraping for sources and leaks and running rumors without the tools or experience to check or dig. And they are openly, shamelessly hostile toward Republicans in a way their predecessors were only in private.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:12 PM (39g3+)

34 Posted by: fixerupper at February 08, 2017 12:06 PM (8XRCm)

For a second I thought Hadji the muslim comic was back!

Posted by: Chris M at February 08, 2017 12:13 PM (eAZVt)

35 Pinch Sulzberger went full toe fungus. You NEVER go full toe fungus.

Posted by: Roy at February 08, 2017 12:13 PM (VndSC)

36 The press are not reporting the news these days, they want to drive the narrative. Problem is people are not like sheep going along willingly with what they are trying to promote. It's more like we listen politely to their drivel and then tell them 'fuck off now'. Ergo the 2016 election.

Posted by: IC at February 08, 2017 12:14 PM (a0IVu)

37 And I suspect it ends (or gets nearer to the end) with a combination of media/social media attempting to muzzle people by, say, all refusing to interview Trump people like Kellyanne (see how Gert Wilders is shut out by his country's media). And social media/internet gatekeepers like twitter and google will/already are creating all sorts of sneaky, backdoor methods to stifle conservative speech.

As for the Lefties, well....they've already moved to the next step: suppressing inconvenient news/view via intimidation and brute force.

Ugh.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 08, 2017 12:14 PM (NOIQH)

38 I wonder what winning the Media War means to us.

To me it means a professional journalist core who are more interested in doing the story right and getting the facts that who wins or loses. A news media that goes after those in power no matter what party they belong to. A news media that is first and foremost interested in what is factual and supportable rather than what sells or what helps their political cause. I call that a win.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:15 PM (39g3+)

39 I'd like to know what in the hell is financing the press these days. Who buys a local paper anymore? I assume all big cities have been reduced to one local rag that is ridiculously liberal if Houston is an example of the nation.

Who buys it? Are the TV networks funding them? Are they so spread out in their businesses they don't need at least half of the population (or more like 70% if the polls are correct) to even consider spending anything on their media?

Posted by: DanMan at February 08, 2017 12:15 PM (RusNE)

40 You read the post?

Posted by: Soothsayer SLE (Special Limited Edition) at February 08, 2017 12:11 PM (k+Lj0)

I did....since it will be pushed down soon. It's the least I can do for OM.

Posted by: Tami at February 08, 2017 12:15 PM (Enq6K)

41 You only have so much credibility.
If I never met you, you have the benefit of the doubt.
Lie to me once, shame on you.
Lie to me twice, shame on me.

Posted by: navybrat at February 08, 2017 12:15 PM (w7KSn)

42 Of course Trump is winning.

If he wasn't, he wouldn't be president.

The MSM did everything in their power to stop him from winning the election, and he won anyway.

And yes, the stakes can be mortal. And that's something that the current losers -- the MSM -- should think about.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (riF5p)

43 It is the Trump view that the media has been so wrong in its
predictions, and made to look in the eyes of the public so woeful and
ludicrous, that it must now double down in an effort to prove its thesis
about the president and restore its honor.
***
Things the media has told me:

1) The Iraq war would cost more then 10,000 American lives just taking Baghdad...

2) George Bush would bring back the draft

3) There have been no Islamist terror attacks in the US since 9/11

4) No illegal aliens vote in elections, and any time election turn out is over 100%, all for the same candidate, is just a normal glitch.

5) There is a plain constititional right to abortion on demand, but not to keep and bear arms.

And I could go on and on.

If the Fake News Media built cars instead of well, fake news, they'd be in jail right now for fraud.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (X7E8f)

44 At a shootin' match last weekend, I overheard one guy sort of lamenting that Trump should NOT be on Twitter any more - even though so far his actions were all great and very welcome.

------

Hear that a bunch. Sometimes right here on the ole AoSHQ.

But.... until the day comes that going around the MSM with direct messaging doesnt work..... Im giving Teh Donald a pass.

If your embarrassed by his Tweets, get over it. Your worrying more about what your snooty peers might say than defanging the MFM.

Posted by: fixerupper at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (8XRCm)

45 And they are openly, shamelessly hostile toward Republicans in a way their predecessors were only in private.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:12 PM (39g3+)

Never before in the US was an entire generation kept in the dark about the realities of the world for so long into their adult lives, then suddenly, like a broken spring, foisted upon the world as if they were the "experts" we all must listen to, having done nothing to qualify themselves but absorb indoctrination since birth.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (sK2fh)

46 frankly I think a prostitute has more integrity than the msm.

Posted by: IC at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (a0IVu)

47 I think Milo has touched on this in his talks (and others probably have elsewhere). The official liberal position has been for years the "default" public position, because it's the safe position. You won't be publicly crucified for saying that you're in favor of equality and all those other platitudes. However, you will be humiliated and your life can be ruined for espousing a conservative position in your life and for your business. It's important to note that the media are the primary actors that conduct those witch hunts against private citizens. It's entirely the media's fault that the owners of Memories Pizza got death threats and had to close their shop.

When people are afraid for their livelyhood, they won't say in public what they really believe. That's why Trump is so important, because he allows the preference cascade. He allows people to say what they really believe without fear, which lets other people realize how common their views (which they assumed were in the distinct minority) actually were.

The media's fear about "normalizing Trump" is really a fear about losing their status as the "normal" position. A view is not normal or abnormal just because of how you react to it. It's normal or abnormal because of how many people think that way. And they know in their hearts that what they're trying to push is not normal, and a lot of what Trump has been saying is.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (KUaJL)

48 What about yer gaaaaaaaafes?

Posted by: eleven at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (qUNWi)

49 Completely fake but highly accurate.

Posted by: Ran Dather at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (9T9TA)

50 Back then, the media was held in much greater esteem by the general public than it is now. So when uncle Walter Cronkhite told his TV news audience that the war in Vietnam was lost, he was believed. After all he was speaking from his prestigious anchor's chair at CBS News, so why wouldn't his ex cathedra proclamation be believed? Of course, later on, it was diiscovered he was pretty much lying his ass off, but never mind that.

That what the Horde always says -- and retired Cronkite did come out as a liberal -- but I looked up his actual comments and find them hard to disagree with:

"Tonight, back in more familiar surroundings in New York, we'd like to sum up our findings in Vietnam, an analysis that must be speculative, personal, subjective. Who won and who lost in the great Tet Offensive against the cities? I'm not sure. The Vietcong did not win by a knockout but neither did we.

We've been too often disappointed by the optimism of the American leaders...

Both in Vietnam and Washington to have faith any longer in the silver linings they find in the darkest clouds. For it seems now more certain than ever, that the bloody experience of Vietnam is to end in a stalemate. To say that we are closer to victory today is to believe in the face of the evidence, the optimists who have been wrong in the past.

To say that we are mired in stalemate seems the only realistic, if unsatisfactory conclusion. On the off chance that military and political analysts are right, in the next few months we must test the enemy's intentions, in case this is indeed his last big gasp before negotiations.

But it is increasingly clear to this reporter that the only rational way out then will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as an honorable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy, and did the best they could.

This is Walter Cronkite. Good night."

Posted by: Bandersnatch, gentleman cad at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (mgbwf)

51 I like Sean Spicer ok, but does he remind anyone else of Truman Capote?

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (V2Yro)

52 I did....since it will be pushed down soon. It's the least I can do for OM.

Posted by: Tami at February 08, 2017 12:15 PM (Enq6K)

Thank you, I'm glad you have my back.

Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (1AO29)

53 >>You read the post?

A Heretic.

Burn Xhim!

Posted by: garrett at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (oXKWd)

54 31 So how does this end?

I don't see either the MSM or Trump backing off, so....how bad will it get?
Posted by: Lizzy at February 08, 2017 12:11 PM (NOIQH)

-------------

I think it will get bad enough where the MFM will start directly calling for violence.

Posted by: Soona at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (Fmupd)

55 "Lie to me twice, shame on me."

We won't get fooled again!

Posted by: Chris M at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (eAZVt)

56
If only I were still alive.

Posted by: Walter Crokite at February 08, 2017 12:17 PM (ZO497)

57
So how does this end?

I don't see either the MSM or Trump backing off, so....how bad will it get?

Posted by: Lizzy at February 08, 2017 12:11 PM (NOIQH)

I hope it gets to the point that on air MSM are literally foaming at the mouth while uttering what sounds like Klingon.

Posted by: Tami at February 08, 2017 12:17 PM (Enq6K)

58 But having said this, this is a war that shouldn't have to be fought. If the MSM were actually doing its job, which is to fairly and accurately report the news, none of this would have been necessary.

Posted by: OregonMuse at 12:05 PM

At this point I believe it is an unnecessary step, to acknowledge and lament what isn't, when it comes to the press.

Deal with what is, and hit it head on. After the beast is defeated and dead and in the ground, then we can have a conversation about what a real free press is supposed to look like.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 08, 2017 12:17 PM (TOk1P)

59 "all the "incivility" in politics and how it wasn't like that in the old days. Well yeah, that's because liberals back then pretty much were able to dictate how things were talked about, and no backtalk was allowed. And conservatives, for the most part, were content to go along with this. It wasn't until when Reagan was elected that conservatives got uppity."

We should all remember that a lot of Senate Republicans, and Reps to a lesser degree, particularly those who've been around long enough to get leadership positions came up pre-Reagan. I think a lot of them were "trained" (like the elephants restrained as babies who stand tethered as adults) that resistance was ultimately futile.

They must get with the program or GTFO!

Posted by: Random Lurker at February 08, 2017 12:17 PM (+tRIN)

60 >>I wonder what winning the Media War means to us.

Think it requires the destruction of the old guard media's ability to set the day's stories/narratives. For decades media types have said that they started their day reading the NYT to see what they would be covering that day - the NYT used to have that much control over nightly newscasts, front pages across the country, etc.

It's started to crumble, but these media powerhouses still have a lot of sway.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 08, 2017 12:17 PM (NOIQH)

61 Who buys a local paper anymore? I assume all big cities have been reduced to one local rag

The local newspaper shut down. They built a huge new beautiful building with massive new presses in around 2000 just as the news bubble burst. Now its a nearly-empty building that takes up an entire city block, and the 3 guys actually reporting send stories up to Portland.

The Portland newspaper is about half the size it used to be, both in terms of thickness and page size. Much of what it runs is just AP and USA Today wire stuff. Newspapers are going the way of the buggy whip.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:17 PM (39g3+)

62 44 At a shootin' match last weekend, I overheard one guy sort of lamenting that Trump should NOT be on Twitter any more - even though so far his actions were all great and very welcome.

I followed him on Twitter since the day of the inauguration. Figured I don't just want to get alternative facts from the MSM.

Posted by: Roy at February 08, 2017 12:17 PM (VndSC)

63 I'm being cynical, I know, but Mass Media seems like it's " trending" all TMZ and Buzzfeed now, and journalism is being a quaint notion.

Posted by: tubal at February 08, 2017 12:18 PM (zSVEm)

64 The landscape of the battlefield has changed and Wolff doesn't seem to realize it. Beyond the points OM made, the current press is almost to the man, woman, and it completely incompetent. They fall for fake stories like a fat kid for candy on the ground.

I really wish we had a healthy press. We don't. We have screaming, hysterical children with no life experience unable to cope with differing opinions. Their destruction is necessary.

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at February 08, 2017 12:18 PM (J70i0)

65 >>So how does this end?

...it cuts to a Lone Woman Dancing.
And she appears to be in pain.

Posted by: Jerry at February 08, 2017 12:18 PM (oXKWd)

66 It's true that the level of publicly expressed mutual contempt between a sitting president and the MSM is up to Nixonian levels
***
One other thing to keep in mind, Nixon was a left wing Republican - he agreed with the Fake News Media on most of the issues of the day.

Trump appears, at least so far, to completely disagree with them.

And this is why they have to have a fight to the death - the Fake News Media sees its reason to be to advance certain political causes...and they will have to take down Trump to accomplish that.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 08, 2017 12:18 PM (X7E8f)

67 24 The MSM are increasingly irrelevant and they know it. It is driving them crazy because they all realize they have lost their leverage and all the things they used to do to make money no longer work. They are shouting at the top of their lungs and waving their arms hoping no one notices they are stark naked.
Posted by: Western Slope Mope at February 08, 2017 12:10 PM (WrMht)

====================

They're not irrelevant yet.

They can still shape narratives that the right needs to expend energy and resources fighting against.

The MSM isn't dead until The New York Times no longer prints and its website is up for sale. Even then, though, be wary.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 12:18 PM (vur0q)

68 Shibumi, even with only watching Fox News, it's amazing how much my 82 year old mother knows about what is going on. Of course, she has leaned conservative all of her life, but I doubt we can get through to an 82 year old progressive.

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at February 08, 2017 12:19 PM (FQKBL)

69 The popularity of Breitbart and Drudge is indicative (I hope) of an awakening populace. The real #resistance, not the drivel Olbermann in spouting off in his bathtub.

Posted by: IC at February 08, 2017 12:19 PM (a0IVu)

70 If the Fake News Media built cars instead of well, fake news,

We'd all own Yugos.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 12:19 PM (2w7OO)

71 think it will get bad enough where the MFM will start directly calling for violence.
Posted by: Soona at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (Fmupd)

-----

Already happening.

Posted by: fixerupper at February 08, 2017 12:19 PM (8XRCm)

72 Justice for Hillary was the election. She should be prosecuted for the handling of secret information at least.

More justice for the Progressives will come in each election, so keep rioting, assholes, as the swamp drains, then dry up and be carried off in the wind.

Sorry, no newsletter, I'm too lazy.

Posted by: 80's music fan at February 08, 2017 12:19 PM (PHcLa)

73 Trump's obsession with the MSM IS unhealthy. Every major speech.. every interview.. he has to have a commentary about how bad the press is... or how badly they are treating him.

It is unbecoming of his office.

He still has not learned how to let surrogates do the dirty work for him.

he's a petulant, whining baby. He should let his actions speak for themselves.. and, in that regard, he has done very well for only 2 weeks!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 08, 2017 12:19 PM (so+oy)

74
I think Hadji the muslim comic was beheaded.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 08, 2017 12:20 PM (ODxAs)

75 think it will get bad enough where the MFM will start directly calling for violence.
Posted by: Soona at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (Fmupd)

-----

Already happening.
Posted by: fixerupper

Someone might want to let them know that that's a two way street.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 12:20 PM (2w7OO)

76 38 I wonder what winning the Media War means to us.

To me it means a professional journalist core who are more interested in doing the story right and getting the facts that who wins or loses. A news media that goes after those in power no matter what party they belong to. A news media that is first and foremost interested in what is factual and supportable rather than what sells or what helps their political cause. I call that a win.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:15 PM (39g3+)

====================

To me it means ABC News calling itself a Liberal News Organization, The New York Times's masthead including the words, "All the News that Help Democrats", and NBC News proudly talking about the leftward voting habits of its lead anchors.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 12:20 PM (vur0q)

77 Why all the hate?

Posted by: Toe Fungus for Congress at February 08, 2017 12:20 PM (8ikIW)

78 Thank you, I'm glad you have my back.

Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (1AO29)

I always felt bad for the fat kid on the playground...

Posted by: Tami at February 08, 2017 12:21 PM (Enq6K)

79 CBS Evening News finds a new way to call President Trump a liar every night.

So I've heard. Who watches them anymore?

Posted by: The Gipper Lives at February 08, 2017 12:21 PM (Ndje9)

80 >>I think Hadji the muslim comic was beheaded.

I think he's migrating to Europe.

Posted by: garrett at February 08, 2017 12:21 PM (oXKWd)

81 That what the Horde always says -- and retired Cronkite did come out as a liberal -- but I looked up his actual comments and find them hard to disagree with:

That's not what he said in the actual newscast. He said we had lost the Vietnam war and the Vietnamese won the Tet Offensive. What he said later on in commentary doesn't erase that.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:21 PM (39g3+)

82 Good post, OregonMuse. Insightful.

Also note one key difference Nixon vs. Trump is, Nixon had a criminal act to conceal, and a failed cover-up.

Trump just be.

Posted by: Michael Rittenhouse at February 08, 2017 12:21 PM (Rs36S)

83 "I think Hadji the muslim comic was beheaded."

It was only the little head. But he hasn't been in a very comical mood since then.

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 08, 2017 12:21 PM (V2Yro)

84 >>I always felt bad for the fat kid on the playground...

You aren't supposed to tell chicks they are fat.

Zaftig. That's the word you are looking for.

Posted by: garrett at February 08, 2017 12:22 PM (oXKWd)

85 COURAGE!!

Posted by: Dan Rather, still rather biased and wrong at February 08, 2017 12:22 PM (RFeQD)

86 So I've heard. Who watches them anymore?
Post by: the Gipper Lives

My ancient FIL.... who voted for Trump, funnily enough.

Posted by: tubal at February 08, 2017 12:22 PM (zSVEm)

87 Probably not an ironic coincidence that Reagan was a product of Hollywood and Trump certainly used the media to improve his brand. Regardless, they understood the machine and were able to use that knowledge to their benefit.

Posted by: The Mouse that Roared at February 08, 2017 12:23 PM (7N6ox)

88 We'd all own Yugos.

With square wheels.

Posted by: eleven at February 08, 2017 12:23 PM (qUNWi)

89 I wonder what winning the Media War means to us.

Prosecution and incarceration of those inciting riots
Prosecution and incarceration of those violating campaign contribution laws
Termination of the employment of dishonest reporters and editors
Full disclosure of bias
An apology to the nation for 60 years of divisive lies

Posted by: Grad School Fool at February 08, 2017 12:23 PM (swEzU)

90 "Never forget, the press is the enemy. The establishment is the enemy. The professors are the enemy. Write that on a blackboard 100 times and never forget it." -- Richard Nixon, to Kissinger and Haig, 12/14/1972

Posted by: General Zod at February 08, 2017 12:23 PM (Bdeb0)

91 I hope it gets to the point that on air MSM are literally foaming at the mouth while uttering what sounds like Klingon.

While getting rabies shots on air.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 12:23 PM (2w7OO)

92 84
>>I always felt bad for the fat kid on the playground...

You aren't supposed to tell chicks they are fat.

Zaftig. That's the word you are looking for.

Posted by: garrett at February 08, 2017 12:22 PM (oXKWd)

OM is a chick?!
Did you ever find any floating shelves?

Posted by: Tami at February 08, 2017 12:23 PM (Enq6K)

93 Let's get it nailed down! Let's get it right!

Posted by: Frank Reyolds at February 08, 2017 12:23 PM (bc2Lc)

94 I wonder what winning the Media War means to us.
***
Someone like a CNN will exist, but no one will consider it to be particularly authoritative.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 08, 2017 12:23 PM (X7E8f)

95 Remember, I'll fight any one of you faggots in The Octagon!! If you can find me, shit is ON!!!

Posted by: Tim "Milk Carton" Marchman at February 08, 2017 12:24 PM (qJhUV)

96 Trump's obsession with the MSM IS unhealthy.

I think it will be if he's still doing it next year. But for now, its a valuable corrective, a hammer to crush them a while. As others have pointed out here, they need to be demolished so they can rebuild, and Trump's constant reminding people of what trash and villainy we get from the press is valuable to inform and educate. For now.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:24 PM (39g3+)

97 "as the swamp drains, then dry up and be carried off in the wind."

Ewww. I'd try to stay upwind of that!

Posted by: Chris M at February 08, 2017 12:25 PM (eAZVt)

98 70
If the Fake News Media built cars instead of well, fake news,

We'd all own Yugos Yardart.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 12:19 PM (2w7OO)
FIFY

Posted by: The Mouse that Roared at February 08, 2017 12:25 PM (7N6ox)

99 94 I wonder what winning the Media War means to us.
***
Someone like a CNN will exist, but no one will consider it to be particularly authoritative.
Posted by: 18-1 at February 08, 2017 12:23 PM (X7E8f)

===================

I'm fine with all of them existing and printing as much as they want whatever they want.

I just want the veil of objectivity to go away.

I'm sure it's still fooling a significant number of Americans, and these people in the MSM are insufferable when they bring up the idea.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 12:25 PM (vur0q)

100 Sort of pertinent.

Best lefty rant Ive seen in while. On the very topic of winning friends and influencing people.

Im very confident hes been shunned and pilloried.

https://tinyurl.com/hfwslwa

Warning for multiple F bombs.

Posted by: fixerupper at February 08, 2017 12:25 PM (8XRCm)

101 >>Did you ever find any floating shelves?

Yes and no.

Found a couple that I liked the look of, but wasn't impressed with the reviews...

I'm just going to have to go out to the garage and clean up the wood shop, I guess. Shouldn't take too long to make a half dozen or so...certainly not as long as cleaning the garage.

Posted by: garrett at February 08, 2017 12:25 PM (oXKWd)

102 Add to it the fact that if you ever went to any college or university, absolutely the dumbest students and the biggest cheaters were always Journalism majors.

Posted by: navybrat at February 08, 2017 12:26 PM (w7KSn)

103 >>Who buys a local paper anymore? I assume all big cities have been reduced to one local rag

Can't say for print news, but outlets like MSNBC can operate just fine regardless of low viewership thanks to the many other profitable NBC-owned channels. You'd have to sink all of their other successful channels to make it costly to maintain their news boutique.

For ABC(?) they have the vast wealth of Disney to support them, so they can weather poor rating just fine, too.

So, for cable news you have unbundle channels as well as have massive cable/satellite cancellations.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 08, 2017 12:26 PM (NOIQH)

104 To me it means ABC News calling itself a Liberal News Organization, The New York Times's masthead including the words, "All the News that Help Democrats", and NBC News proudly talking about the leftward voting habits of its lead anchors.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 12:20 PM (vur0q)
===

Agreed. I don't mind them going after Trump because I think he can handle himself. But I think they should be honest and admit that they are the PR firm of the DNC.

Posted by: Independent George at February 08, 2017 12:26 PM (BDZWU)

105 I'm not sure. The Vietcong did not win by a knockout but neither did we.
***
My understanding was that the Tet Offensive broke the Viet Cong.

The war continued, but after that point only because the NVA was leading it.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 08, 2017 12:26 PM (X7E8f)

106 That's not what he said in the actual newscast. He said we had lost the Vietnam war and the Vietnamese won the Tet Offensive. What he said later on in commentary doesn't erase that.

Please to be finding a source for that. I am looking.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, gentleman cad at February 08, 2017 12:27 PM (mgbwf)

107 It shows the level of their anti-Trump zeal that they are willing to commit credibility suicide in order to smear him - who cares if you get called on publishing reams of fake news as long as some of it sticks? As has been pointed out numerous times here and at other outlets, it's a religious-like fervor.

Of course, Hanlon's Razor might also apply - some journo hacks might actually be too stupid to realize that they're destroying the meager shreds of credibility that they still had. But I don't think it's out of hand to attribute active malice to the MSM.

Posted by: broseidon being a capitalist pigdog (yknow, working) at February 08, 2017 12:27 PM (oZ6kz)

108 The only respectful opinion I would offer President Trump ( I love writing that), is that at some point he delegates some suitable proxies to mix it up on social media with his enemies.

Posted by: tubal at February 08, 2017 12:27 PM (zSVEm)

109 Extraordinary times and conditions call for extraordinary measures.

If Trump does to the propagandists what Sherman did to the South, that would be a great start.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, keeper of the Deplorable Unicode Character at February 08, 2017 12:27 PM (9krrF)

110 For ABC(?) they have the vast wealth of Disney to support them, so they can weather poor rating just fine, too.

So, for cable news you have unbundle channels as well as have massive cable/satellite cancellations.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 08, 2017 12:26 PM (NOIQH)
===

I should note the other day it was reported that Disney's revenue was down 3% from what they thought it would be. I'm sure they can weather it but it shows that people are starting to turn away from them.

Posted by: Independent George at February 08, 2017 12:28 PM (BDZWU)

111 White House Press Room sure would be a lot roomier, were certain "news agencies" stripped of their accreditations and credentials, and frog-marched out the back door.

The one by the garbage bins. Like Obama did for the Dali Lama, as I recall?

Only this time, dump them IN the bins, rather than the aforementioned walk-by.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at February 08, 2017 12:28 PM (v5iqM)

112 Question for the Horde who thinks that Trump has an unhealthy obsession with the MSM: How would you prefer he act towards them?

If you'd rather him act like W, then I have to disagree. We don't get anywhere by not trying to fight. Do you have an example of a public figure/Republican politician that treats the MSM appropriately?

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at February 08, 2017 12:28 PM (KUaJL)

113 that guy is a sheep in Wolff's clothing

Posted by: concrete girl at February 08, 2017 12:28 PM (EjP03)

114 Yo!

Posted by: Yo! at February 08, 2017 12:28 PM (GwIKd)

115 I'm just going to have to go out to the garage and clean up the wood shop, I guess. Shouldn't take too long to make a half dozen or so...certainly not as long as cleaning the garage.
Posted by: garrett at February 08, 2017 12:25 PM (oXKWd)

----------------

You clean your garbage? That's a bit anal, isn't it?

Posted by: Soona at February 08, 2017 12:28 PM (Fmupd)

116 I'm just going to have to go out to the garage and
clean up the wood shop, I guess. Shouldn't take too long to make a half
dozen or so...certainly not as long as cleaning the garage.

Posted by: garrett at February 08, 2017 12:25 PM (oXKWd)

My husband's wood shop is very messy too...he seems to just work around it.

Posted by: Tami at February 08, 2017 12:28 PM (Enq6K)

117 We'd all own Yugos Yardart.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 12:19 PM (2w7OO)
FIFY

Posted by: The Mouse that Roared at February 08, 2017 12:25 PM (7N6ox)

Guess I don't have crossout privileges. That's not a barrel offense is it?

Posted by: The Mouse that Roared at February 08, 2017 12:29 PM (7N6ox)

118 Think it requires the destruction of the old guard media's ability to set the day's stories/narratives. For decades media types have said that they started their day reading the NYT to see what they would be covering that day - the NYT used to have that much control over nightly newscasts, front pages across the country, etc.

It's started to crumble, but these media powerhouses still have a lot of sway.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 08, 2017 12:17 PM (NOIQH)

I think it goes back farther than that. It goes back to what they teach them in J-school. Which is not how to report the news fairly and accurately, but to "change the world" and "make a difference" and "speak for the oppressed."

Once you've defined your profession in terms of a progressive social agenda, that means the progressive bias is going to be baked in at the start.

Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at February 08, 2017 12:29 PM (1AO29)

119 If you want to know my #1 complaint about Trump, it's how thin-skinned he is on a personal level.

On one hand, I want someone willing to punch the media back, on the other hand, I don't want someone that has a tantrum about SNL or Meryl Streep.

I was just reading where SNL is having its best ratings in like 20 years, and I have to think most of that is Trump flipping out over it.

Posted by: Maritime at February 08, 2017 12:29 PM (DWmPO)

120 Trump's "war on the media" is glorious. He's not letting them get away with the Same Ol' Shinola they did under previous Republican Presidents. Although his tweets can be cringe-worthy at times, they are having an effect. The press is incredulous at the pushback, and keeps doubling down because it's the only play they have. Backing off and objectively reporting the news is a non-starter, as they have too much invested in the Narrative. They believe themselves to be too big to fail. It will take the crumbling of their entire industry before they realize how wrong and out of touch they've been, and many won't even realize it at that point.

Posted by: Stu Podaso at February 08, 2017 12:29 PM (cW490)

121 So the reasonable liberals says "I would vote for Lucifer over Trump".

An interesting expression. The statement of course presumes that Lucifer exists, that he is pure evil, and his goal is to destroy humanity.

I understand that his is intended as hyperbole....but the left keeps going back to this particular well.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 08, 2017 12:30 PM (X7E8f)

122 So how does this end?

I don't see either the MSM or Trump backing off, so....how bad will it get?
Posted by: Lizzy at February 08, 2017 12:11 PM (NOIQH)

I hope it gets to the point that on air MSM are literally foaming at the mouth while uttering what sounds like Klingon.
Posted by: Tami at February 08, 2017 12:17 PM (Enq6K)

___________________________

How does it end? Well, they drop the pretense. They show up and actively take part in protests. They form committees and openly advocate specific positions on issues right in front of everyone. They specifically state to the American people that they have been forced into the roll of future direction so as to save the rest of us from those fascists and haters.

In short they bet the farm on a pair of deuces...lose the farm, then lobby to get the farm back from those who "unjustly" stole it by getting someone back into the big chair who goes hog wild applying FCC regulations selectively to any alternative voice.

Always with more regulation is the Liberal way. They are starting to lose the narrative...so now they need to shut down the narrative.

Posted by: Orson at February 08, 2017 12:30 PM (iTDMT)

123 OT: So, I'm taking apart light fixtures at work today. The cordless driver has an "R" button and an "L" button. Any idea what those could be? I'm thinking the R is for Riparian water rights and the L...well, I'm just stumped.

Shoulda bought a Fixa...

Posted by: broseidon being a capitalist pigdog (yknow, working) at February 08, 2017 12:30 PM (oZ6kz)

124 That what the Horde always says -- and retired Cronkite did come out as a liberal -- but I looked up his actual comments and find them hard to disagree with:
------------
The problem is that it was a one-sided narrative that was crafted to establish a hopelessness. By it's seemingly 'centered and thoughtful' tone it seemed balanced, but was in fact intended to instill an acceptance of defeat as reasonable.

Once defeat is accepted, then the fight is over.

Cronkite and his fellow travelers made the leap from responsible reporters to self-appointed propagandists.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at February 08, 2017 12:30 PM (ZO497)

125 If the last four years have taught us anything, it's that we aren't fooled anymore by the Left and its institutions. The MSM finally has removed its mask of objectivity. We learned from the gay marriage debate that to concede a point is to establish the next point they demand we surrender. Heretics will be shamed, harrassed and threatened. Universities are no longer places of higher learning but centers of indoctrination. The Left doesn't really care about women, minorities and the poor; they're just McGuffins to accumulate power.

Posted by: Kodos the Executioner at February 08, 2017 12:30 PM (mVNYK)

126 And it's an unexpected bonus that you have a president reacting, quickly, and undiplomatically, to judicial malfeasance (the absurd fed. district restraining order). His mocking of the 9th's oral arguments session.

It is 100% "inappropriate", by the standards of most of our history. And it is 100% valid, and if it draws more eyeballs to the farce that is in many respects the federal judiciary (sorry, that's a sober, well-founded and technical assessment), then it's quite beneficial.

People don't tend to look closely at the making of judicial sausage. When they do, in the most egregious cases of malfeasance (O-care cases, marriage redefinition by whim of one man), they are rightly appalled and baffled.

The federal courts have destroyed the constitutional framework (they've had help, mostly passive, from the other branches). If that is to be righted, it won't come without some verbal punches being thrown.

Posted by: rhomboid at February 08, 2017 12:31 PM (QDnY+)

127 I was just reading where SNL is having its best ratings in like 20 years, and I have to think most of that is Trump flipping out over it.

Hasn't Arec Barwin done every show?

He's a huge draw.

Posted by: eleven at February 08, 2017 12:31 PM (qUNWi)

128 121 So the reasonable liberals says "I would vote for Lucifer over Trump".

An interesting expression. The statement of course presumes that Lucifer exists, that he is pure evil, and his goal is to destroy humanity.

I understand that his is intended as hyperbole....but the left keeps going back to this particular well.
Posted by: 18-1 at February 08, 2017 12:30 PM (X7E8f)

well, they already got the whole child sacrifice part down, so they might as well go full Black Mass.

Posted by: josephistan at February 08, 2017 12:31 PM (7HtZB)

129 102 Add to it the fact that if you ever went to any college or university, absolutely the dumbest students and the biggest cheaters were always Journalism majors.
Posted by: navybrat at February 08, 2017 12:26 PM (w7KSn)

Seems harsh.

I graduated from the nation's top journalism school. What I could say most accurately about the class (and the student paper's staff) was that Republicans were exceedingly rare.

Among the leftists there were definitely some Jane Mayer-quality ideologues. But the bulk were standard-issue leftish liberals who had no understanding of -- nor intellectual curiosity about -- conservatives whatsoever.

Posted by: Michael Rittenhouse at February 08, 2017 12:31 PM (Rs36S)

130 I got this Newsweek mailer addressed to my mother, who was dead for a handful of years, titled ...

WE KNOW WHERE YOU ARE.

It was clear that they had no idea where she was.

Posted by: undocumented illegal SMOD at February 08, 2017 12:32 PM (e8kgV)

131 123 OT: So, I'm taking apart light fixtures at work today. The cordless driver has an "R" button and an "L" button. Any idea what those could be? I'm thinking the R is for Riparian water rights and the L...well, I'm just stumped.

Shoulda bought a Fixa...
Posted by: broseidon being a capitalist pigdog (yknow, working) at February 08, 2017 12:30 PM (oZ6kz)

"R" is for "rotate" and "L" is for "levitate". DO try to keep up.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at February 08, 2017 12:32 PM (RD7QR)

132 I was just reading where SNL is having its best ratings in like 20 years, and I have to think most of that is Trump flipping out over it.

-------

Well for the first time in 8 years they're actually lampooning a President, so there's something for people to watch.

Posted by: josephistan at February 08, 2017 12:32 PM (7HtZB)

133 105 I'm not sure. The Vietcong did not win by a knockout but neither did we.
***
My understanding was that the Tet Offensive broke the Viet Cong.
The war continued, but after that point only because the NVA was leading it.
Posted by: 18-1 at February 08, 2017 12:26 PM (X7E8f)

There was a 2-volume analysis of media coverage of the Tet offensive published by an author named Peter Braestrup and his conclusion was that it was a huge defeat for the Viet Cong which got spun into a victory in the press.

Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at February 08, 2017 12:32 PM (1AO29)

134

https://spectator.org/the-pussycons-fret-about-donald-trump/

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 08, 2017 12:32 PM (IqV8l)

135 Speaking of Cronkite in most countries and most times even in the US, intentionally, and falsely, claiming your country is losing a war is a crime.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 08, 2017 12:33 PM (X7E8f)

136 I was just reading where SNL is having its best ratings in like 20 years, and I have to think most of that is Trump flipping out over it.

----

I've been hearing that Rosie O'Donnel is lobbying to be able to play Steve Bannon on SNL, and apparently that's a big deal?

I don't get it. Is the joke supposed to be that she looks like a man?

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at February 08, 2017 12:33 PM (KUaJL)

137 Please to be finding a source for that. I am looking.

I don't know where to find it, I just remember hearing those words (if not exact, then very close) with my own ears watching him speak in rebroadcasts, several times. While he stood on a big map of Vietnam on the floor of the studio.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:33 PM (39g3+)

138 >>"R" is for "rotate"

I might need corrective disc surgery after guffawing at that one!

Posted by: garrett at February 08, 2017 12:34 PM (oXKWd)

139 I got this other mailer addressed to my mother, who was dead for a handful of years, titled ...

WELCOME BACK.

It was clear, unless Jesus was on their staff, that she was not back.

Posted by: undocumented illegal SMOD at February 08, 2017 12:34 PM (e8kgV)

140 My husband's wood shop is very messy too...he seems to just work around it.
Posted by: Tami
------------

Hammer's Law of Flat Surfaces - "The clutter will expand to fill all available flat surfaces"

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at February 08, 2017 12:34 PM (ZO497)

141 Shibumi, even with only watching Fox News, it's amazing how much my 82 year old mother knows about what is going on. Of course, she has leaned conservative all of her life, but I doubt we can get through to an 82 year old progressive.
---

I'm glad.

I'm talking about the seniors who are not particularly interested in politics and have no one to tell them "the media is biased." The ones who don't have the internet and just default to "the media is truthful."

Posted by: shibumi, a rational single white female and kitteh servant at February 08, 2017 12:34 PM (J5mC3)

142 Guess I don't have crossout privileges. That's not a barrel offense is it?
Posted by: The Mouse that Roared

[ s ] then [ /s ]

(Close up spaces)

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 12:34 PM (2w7OO)

143 It was the 3 nets (NBC, CBS, ABC), and the NYT and the WaPo newspapers that determined what was being talked about, and the way it should be talked about.

This

Five sources all vying for number 1. Not thousands vying for first. The egos in the MSM just will not comport with anything other than First. Trump's ego is currently five laps ahead of the field. And pulling away. He'll wipe the floor with the MSM.

Posted by: Deplorable Redneck Bitter Clinger at February 08, 2017 12:35 PM (jAZR9)

144 Add to it the fact that if you ever went to any college or university, absolutely the dumbest students and the biggest cheaters were always Journalism majors.

Pish posh.

Posted by: Education Majors at February 08, 2017 12:35 PM (mgbwf)

145 My understanding was that the Tet Offensive broke the Viet Cong.

The war continued, but after that point only because the NVA was leading it.
Posted by: 18-1

Yes, it was a deliberate tactical move by Giap to burn down the Viet Cong. Some of them actually realized that later. It was the plan to "North Vietnamese the War", as it were. Tet destroyed the Viet Cong as an effective fighting force. It was a tactical victory for the US and South Vietnam, but a strategic victory for North Vietnam, as they then controlled the war and won a propaganda victory.

Their ultimate victory (aided by obstruction by that great American patriot, Tip O'Neil), could not have taken place without Tet in 1968, for a variety of reasons.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....outlaw in America at February 08, 2017 12:35 PM (RFeQD)

146 I think it is good that Trump is obsessed with the press, because that way he can beat it. He is not ideological, but he knows who his enemies are. You can't ignore them.

Bush thought he could ignore them. Be above it, he thought.

In exchange, he got a failed Presidency and he is largely reviled by people.

Posted by: blaster at February 08, 2017 12:35 PM (tewYv)

147 After beating the Soviets, the Chinese and the Vietnamese to get us out of a war the Dems started and lost IDGAF about the press.

Posted by: Davea at February 08, 2017 12:35 PM (8J/Te)

148
There was a 2-volume analysis of media coverage of the Tet offensive published by an author named Peter Braestrup and his conclusion was that it was a huge defeat for the Viet Cong which got spun into a victory in the press.
Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at February 08, 2017 12:32 PM (1AO29)

Absolutely true. The VC were never an effective fighting force after Tet. Remember it was not guys in straw hats & black pajamas who marched into Saigon in 1975, it was the North Vietnamese with the latest Russian tanks & jets.

Posted by: josephistan at February 08, 2017 12:35 PM (7HtZB)

149 O/T Rep Thomas Massie has introduced a bill to abolish the Department of Education.

Heh..oh hell yes.

Posted by: IC at February 08, 2017 12:35 PM (a0IVu)

150 143 Five sources all vying for number 1. Not thousands vying for first. The egos in the MSM just will not comport with anything other than First. Trump's ego is currently five laps ahead of the field. And pulling away. He'll wipe the floor with the MSM.
Posted by: Deplorable Redneck Bitter Clinger at February 08, 2017 12:35 PM (jAZR9)

==================

They were vying for #1 like the members of OPEC vie for #1.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 12:35 PM (vur0q)

151 I was just reading where SNL is having its best ratings in like 20 years

I think a lot of people expected comedians and entertainment to be fun and rip on the president again, so they tuned into see and found weepy tributes to Obama. I wouldn't expect this ratings run to continue.

I've been hearing that Rosie O'Donnel is lobbying to be able to play Steve Bannon on SNL, and apparently that's a big deal?

Huff Post had a piece on the idea: have women play all the male Trump parts, it will crush fragile male egos and be a blow to the patriarchy!!!!

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:36 PM (39g3+)

152 https://spectator.org/the-pussycons-fret-about-donald-trump/

Pussycons is good. That should stick.

Posted by: eleven at February 08, 2017 12:36 PM (qUNWi)

153
So the reasonable liberals says "I would vote for Lucifer over Trump".

An
interesting expression. The statement of course presumes that Lucifer
exists, that he is pure evil, and his goal is to destroy humanity.
---
They did.

Posted by: Methos at February 08, 2017 12:36 PM (3Liv/)

154 >>>>There are a crap ton of conservative voices

I believe the correct scientific term is FUCKTON

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 08, 2017 12:36 PM (voOPb)

155 149 O/T Rep Thomas Massie has introduced a bill to abolish the Department of Education.

Heh..oh hell yes.
Posted by: IC

Hey libs. I hear how you don't like DeVoss. Well I know of a way you can get rid of her...

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at February 08, 2017 12:36 PM (KUaJL)

156 "I got this other mailer addressed to my mother, who was dead for a handful of years, titled ...

WELCOME BACK.

It was clear, unless Jesus was on their staff, that she was not back.

Posted by: undocumented illegal SMOD at February 08, 2017 12:34 PM (e8kgV) "

I still get mail for my father every once in a blue moon - not only has he been dead for 14+ years, he never even lived at my current house.

Posted by: broseidon being a capitalist pigdog (yknow, working) at February 08, 2017 12:37 PM (oZ6kz)

157 Huff Post had a piece on the idea: have women play all the male Trump parts, it will crush fragile male egos and be a blow to the patriarchy!!!!
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor

Or maybe continue the shuffle of SNL into obscurity.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....outlaw in America at February 08, 2017 12:37 PM (RFeQD)

158 The senate judiciary committee should start impeaching every activist federal judge. That's how we end judicial fiat. There needs to be some fear in these judges' minds..

Posted by: Soona at February 08, 2017 12:37 PM (Fmupd)

159 I think it's better than that. Before and during the 2016 primary season, the MSM was giving Trump massive coverage, probably more than the rest of the GOP field combined. And boy howdy, did the the other candidates complain about that.

It appears in hindsight that the Dems sought, with fervor, the Trump-Clinton matchup. The compliant MSM boosted Hillary, gave Trump wall-to-wall coverage, ignored Trump's competition, and made Team Bernie the equivalent of the Washington Generals.

So, how did that turn out?

One yuuuuuge problem is that the media cognoscenti are firmly entrenched in the DC-NYC-Boston corridor. They rarely venture out to take in the national picture. Their attitude is to force the electorate to conform to their coastal worldview instead of simply reporting the facts as they are. And they will use any tactic necessary to achieve their goal.

Posted by: mrp at February 08, 2017 12:37 PM (JBggj)

160 There are a crap ton of conservative voices

I believe the correct scientific term is FUCKTON

Fuckton
Metric Fuckton
Galactic Fuckton

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 12:37 PM (2w7OO)

161 @50 To say that we are mired in stalemate seems the only realistic, if unsatisfactory conclusion. On the off chance that military and political analysts are right, in the next few months we must test the enemy's intentions, in case this is indeed his last big gasp before negotiations.
-----------------------------

The VC was effectively destroyed as a result of the Tet Offensive. Cronkite's pronouncement was sort of like announcing that the Battle of the Bulge had been a stalemate because the front lines reverted to where they had been at the start of the German offensive.

Giap, in a later interview, admitted that the Paris Peace Accords effectively ended the war. The government in Hanoi was too scared of Nixon to do anything further.

And then Watergate happened. At first the North Vietnamese government didn't pay much attention to it. But eventually they realized that Nixon was far weaker than they had thought. And the end result of that was the fall of Saigon.

Posted by: junior at February 08, 2017 12:38 PM (nsZ+m)

162 O/T Rep Thomas Massie has introduced a bill to abolish the Department of Education.

Heh..oh hell yes.
Posted by: IC at February 08, 2017 12:35 PM (a0IVu)

======

Cue Liberals pointing to DeVos as the reason.

Posted by: Flyboy at February 08, 2017 12:38 PM (R3Jti)

163 I was just reading where SNL is having its best ratings in like 20 years, and I have to think most of that is Trump flipping out over it.

-------

Well for the first time in 8 years they're actually lampooning a President, so there's something for people to watch.
Posted by: josephistan

I tend to think had Trump just ignored Saturday Night Live, it would have just kept slowly dying.

Once he made it clear how much it bothered him, it suddenly made it "relevant" again.

Let's be intellectually honest, had say Obama flipped out publicly with angry tweets and such over an SNL depiction of him, we'd here be calling him a pussy. Of course Obama never had this problem because SNL never made fun of him, but somehow every other President has dealt with it.

I DO though support Trump naming and shaming judges that cross the line.

Posted by: Maritime at February 08, 2017 12:38 PM (DWmPO)

164 Civics question of the day:

What giant of women's rights and vocal symbol of American leftism said, when referring to Roe v. Wade, that she thought the purpose of the law was to eliminate "populations that we don't want to have too many of?"

Do, di, do, di, do, di, dahhhhhh....

Times up. Markers down.

Oh! Too bad. Nobody got the right answer.

Yes, the answer to the question is, Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Show them what they could have won, Johnny.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean (Aware and I WILL NOT COMPLY!) at February 08, 2017 12:38 PM (Gh3fw)

165 112 Question for the Horde who thinks that Trump has an unhealthy obsession with the MSM: How would you prefer he act towards them?

If you'd rather him act like W, then I have to disagree. We don't get anywhere by not trying to fight. Do you have an example of a public figure/Republican politician that treats the MSM appropriately?
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at February 08, 2017 12:28 PM (KUaJL)

The MFM is one of the major threats to our republic. I'm perfectly happy for PDT and company to kick their teeth down their throat daily.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 08, 2017 12:38 PM (0mRoj)

166 Bush thought he could ignore them. Be above it, he thought.

Trump is making a classic Bush mistake, he's implementing policy without selling it. He has to be out front with the American people and selling his ideas, not just signing them.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:38 PM (39g3+)

167 >>Once you've defined your profession in terms of a progressive social
agenda, that means the progressive bias is going to be baked in at the
start.

Excellent point!

Think another reason why the DC media is so dang bad is so many of them are young and have a very shallow understanding of so many things, such as history, science, economics. Ben Rhodes was absolutely right in his assessment that these fools were so easy to manipulate for Obama's Iran Deal because they are so young and ignorant.

There's an old movie, "Teacher's Pet" (195

that pitted hard-boiled, veteran newsman Clark Gable against sweet, enlightened journalism professor Doris Day. Gable takes her class without telling her who he is and through her lessons each demonstrates the old approach - who, what, when, how, why, just the facts! - vs. the new approach of touchy-feely storytelling journalism. Kinda sad to see what we've lost with the touchy-feely approach taking over.

We need those unrefined, trained on the job Clark Gable types back in the newsrooms and news studios writing the sories.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 08, 2017 12:38 PM (NOIQH)

168 I have tuned out on all broadcast news, and that does include Fox.
my mistrust/ scepticism level is that high.
I rely on the internet, and getting informed that way takes more effort.
I wonder if people in general are ever going to be willing to work at being informed, when an alternative is so available?

I see it as a steep hill.

Posted by: tubal at February 08, 2017 12:39 PM (zSVEm)

169 ~~Thanks~~ Rick!

Posted by: The Mouse that Roared at February 08, 2017 12:39 PM (7N6ox)

170 Add to it the fact that if you ever went to any college or university, absolutely the dumbest students and the biggest cheaters were always Journalism majors.

Pish posh.
Posted by: Education Majors
-------------

I point out, again, that the UNC J-School (rated no. 4 in the nation), this year eliminated requirements for any history or economics courses. I was floored.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at February 08, 2017 12:39 PM (ZO497)

171 The leftist media and the left in general are scared shitless because for the first time in a looong time a madman with balls that clank ran for office basically saying he was going to break ALL of their shit, and with a public that got behind him and said fuck yeah dude have at it.

Posted by: Berserker- Dragonheads Division at February 08, 2017 12:39 PM (aMlLZ)

172 Speaking of Trump's crudeness, one thing the GOPe never got* was that the average LIV isn't paying much attention to the news and they only hear brief soundbites.

So in a discussion about some Bush 43 policy, for example, the discussion would generally go like this:

Dem: Bush is a NAZI, a fascist, a failure, an idiot, and evil doer, etc.

Rep: This is a complex issue and there are no easy answers, but I think the prudent thing to do is....

And the LIV would hear "Bush is almost a NAZI and even Republicans can't agree with his policies!"

Now Trump gives better then he gets and the average LIV hears an actual debate...

*Or did understand but found it useful for failure theater

Posted by: 18-1 at February 08, 2017 12:39 PM (X7E8f)

173 So, we failed to win in Vietnam because Uncle Walter sapped the nation's will in 1968?

Robert MacNamara (*spits on his grave*) wrote that he and LBJ had concluded it was unwinnable in 1965 but were afraid to look week.

We had had just over 2,000 deaths of an eventual 58,000 by then.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, gentleman cad at February 08, 2017 12:40 PM (mgbwf)

174 OT: So, I'm taking apart light fixtures at work today. The cordless driver has an "R" button and an "L" button. Any idea what those could be? I'm thinking the R is for Riparian water rights and the L...well, I'm just stumped.

Shoulda bought a Fixa...

Posted by: broseidon being a capitalist pigdog (yknow, working)

Hey now, be kind! Christ was a carpenter, and even He wound up with nails in both hands and feet...

(I'm so going to hell for that.)

Posted by: Brother Cavil, keeper of the Deplorable Unicode Character at February 08, 2017 12:40 PM (9krrF)

175
Also note one key difference Nixon vs. Trump is, Nixon had a criminal act to conceal, and a failed cover-up.

Nixon had zero personality and was painfully uncomfortable in front of the camera.Love him or hate him President Trump has a personality built for media and he embraces it

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at February 08, 2017 12:40 PM (lKyWE)

176 So, Trump is Nixon.
Trump is Hitler.

Who else can Trump be?

Posted by: Guile Lackman at February 08, 2017 12:40 PM (hyCGn)

177 being ruffled by Trump's style and behavior.

...
I understand the reaction,

I get that mild eeuuww, then I read AoSHQ and remember how it absolutely drives all the "right" people bugfucknutz.

Posted by: DaveA at February 08, 2017 12:41 PM (8J/Te)

178 166 Bush thought he could ignore them. Be above it, he thought.

Trump is making a classic Bush mistake, he's implementing policy without selling it. He has to be out front with the American people and selling his ideas, not just signing them.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:38 PM (39g3+)

This is true. He and W both just have a hard time with explaining and introducing ideas and legislation. It really matters and the DemonRats don't have to bother with it because the MSM carries that water for them. The GOP has to do this on their own.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at February 08, 2017 12:41 PM (RD7QR)

179 Thanks Rick!
Posted by: The Mouse that Roared

Works with b, i & u also.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 12:41 PM (2w7OO)

180 Talking about Vietnam now is like talking about WWII in 1990.

Time flies way too fast.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 08, 2017 12:41 PM (N96yY)

181 176 So, Trump is Nixon.
Trump is Hitler.

Who else can Trump be?

Posted by: Guile Lackman at February 08, 2017 12:40 PM (hyCGn)

Uh, Hitler Nixon, Mojo Nixon's younger brother?

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at February 08, 2017 12:42 PM (RD7QR)

182 OM, and josephistan, reading my mind and commenting first.

I was around Braestrup when he was writing "Big Story" in the early 80s (same building/institution, not in any way involved). Learned a lot talking with him - and watching his interaction with other Beltway journalists (who were, generally, of a far higher professional and intellectual caliber than is now the case).

To tie back to an earlier current in the thread, no, Cronkite's remarks were outrageous, wrong, baseless, and dumb. As Braestrup documents - and Cronkite had no excuse ..... unless one considers the press fundamentally failing at their job of getting the basic facts an "excuse".

Posted by: rhomboid at February 08, 2017 12:42 PM (QDnY+)

183 "Posted by: Brother Cavil, keeper of the Deplorable Unicode Character at February 08, 2017 12:40 PM (9krrF) "

Clearly the Romans didn't shop at Ikea, or else Jesus would have fallen off the cross.

Posted by: broseidon being a capitalist pigdog (yknow, working) at February 08, 2017 12:42 PM (oZ6kz)

184 Just a note about that "Woman Leaves Husband Because He Voted For Trump" thing that's been making the rounds the last few days.

None of the headline writers must have actually read the article because the husband DID NOT vote for Trump. I mean, it says so right in the article.

Fake News.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? - Takin' My Time on my Ride at February 08, 2017 12:43 PM (ul9CR)

185 MSM delenda est!

Trump (and the GOP) couldn't avoid this war. Better to fight it and win it.

Trump survived the worst that MSM could do during the election. He's in a much stronger position now.

Agree with OM's points in the lede but add that MSM is collectively much dumber than it used to be. They continue to lose credibility not just because of bias but because it's dumb bias. By the day it's just more hysterical shrieking. If Trump governs well, MSM as we've known it will be over.

Making the world safe for normal good politicians like Mike Pence.

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 08, 2017 12:43 PM (SIY7D)

186 166 Bush thought he could ignore them. Be above it, he thought.

Trump is making a classic Bush mistake, he's implementing policy without selling it. He has to be out front with the American people and selling his ideas, not just signing them.

Disagree. What Trump is "selling" now, is what people have wanted to "buy" for 20 years.

He's still in fix it mode.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 12:43 PM (2w7OO)

187 I have cut the msm out of my life as much as I could and feel better about that decision every day. Fuck them.

Posted by: USNtakim at February 08, 2017 12:44 PM (hMqvx)

188 The senate judiciary committee should start impeaching every activist federal judge
***
What percentage of state and federal legislators are convicted of a crime per year? What percentage of state and federal judges are convicted of a crime per year?

I have a strong suspicion the former is MUCH higher then the latter. Now why would that be?

Posted by: 18-1 at February 08, 2017 12:44 PM (X7E8f)

189 President Trump is not freaking out you pearl clutcher. Yeah you.

Posted by: nip at February 08, 2017 12:44 PM (L5nkE)

190 I tend to think had Trump just ignored Saturday Night Live, it would have just kept slowly dying.

Once he made it clear how much it bothered him, it suddenly made it "relevant" again.

Agreed. He's got to let crap like that just go. SNL will become like Olberman screaming in an empty room.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 08, 2017 12:44 PM (493sH)

191 Bush thought he could ignore them. Be above it, he thought. In exchange, he got a failed Presidency and he is largely reviled by people.

Ah yes ... the classic "They're beating themselves ... we don't have to lift a finger" strategy. Seems to be making a comeback among some around here.

Pro Tip ... The other guy picks whether or not you're in a fight.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 08, 2017 12:45 PM (buBai)

192 I have never seen any transcript of Cronkite saying the war was lost. His words were as quoted above.

The only lost was "If I've lost Cronkite, I've lost Middle America." Of course it is unlikely President Johnson actually said that.

Posted by: RioBravo at February 08, 2017 12:45 PM (SsblQ)

193 Talking about Vietnam now is like talking about WWII in 1990.

Time flies way too fast.

Sir, (does math in head), if you are correct (re-checks) that would make me old.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, gentleman cad at February 08, 2017 12:45 PM (mgbwf)

194 the UNC J-School (rated no. 4 in the nation), this year eliminated requirements for any history or economics courses

They're in a bind. The J-students who take basic history and economics tend to change majors.

Posted by: Geronimo Stilton at February 08, 2017 12:45 PM (4bKiB)

195 Reuters poll gives Trump a 50.x% approval rating.

Reuters? Probably means he's around 55%

Posted by: mrp at February 08, 2017 12:45 PM (JBggj)

196 Well, Mike H., just imagining what passes for "history" and "economics" instruction in colleges these days, could we assume that journalism students are actually benefitting from those requirements being dropped?

Just joking, of course, in a way.

Posted by: rhomboid at February 08, 2017 12:45 PM (QDnY+)

197 OT but I'm done with Drudge. Almost every link is to some left wing rag or kook site. . It's all Politco, NYT, WND, etc.

If I wanted to read that crap I would go directly.

Enough. I just bookmarked all the sites I want to read directly.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 08, 2017 12:46 PM (6nSdj)

198 vipers really need to learn to not be offended by being called snakes. we need to provide them with a mirror they can not avoid/ignore.
facts are: they do not know who the Trump voters are, and, we are very pleased with his behavior. Hoping he intelligently traps them with got yas.
the visitor law is quite clear. but with politics, especially progressive, not so much. perhaps we should sue all those Washington big companies for endangering our security with their hire the world (and not citizen) policies.

Posted by: talgus da Deplorable at February 08, 2017 12:46 PM (fJQAI)

199 Let's not forget Mike Wallace's infamous statements during the Charles Ogletree hosted discussion on the "Ethics in America" series. While sitting at a table with military leaders they discussed what they would do in various situation when a journalist was embedded with US vs. Vietnamese forces. Wallace said if he was with the Vietnamese forces and became aware that they were going to ambush US troops he *would not warn the Americans*.
Because he was a journalist first, and American second.

I'd say most of today's reporters would agree with that sentiment.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/press/vanities/fallows.html

Posted by: Lizzy at February 08, 2017 12:47 PM (NOIQH)

200 195 Reuters poll gives Trump a 50.x% approval rating.

Reuters? Probably means he's around 55%
Posted by: mrp at February 08, 2017 12:45 PM (JBggj)

The Media Lies.

The lens I see through.

Posted by: tubal at February 08, 2017 12:47 PM (zSVEm)

201 Disagree. What Trump is "selling" now, is what people have wanted to "buy" for 20 years.

The media is hammering him on immigration with emotional images of sad kids and families separated and huge crowds protesting. What people want, they can be swayed on unless given strong arguments.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:47 PM (39g3+)

202 Making the world safe for normal good politicians like Mike Pence.

***

As a resident of Indiana (not EVER to be referred to by that idiotic word that starts with H) you should've seen teh gheys get the vapors when Trump picked Pence to be his running mate.

Posted by: clint flicker at February 08, 2017 12:47 PM (UWriB)

203 But it is increasingly clear to this reporter that the only rational way out then will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as an honorable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy, and did the best they could.

This is Walter Cronkite. Good night."

Posted by: Bandersnatch, gentleman cad at February 08, 2017 12:16 PM (mgbwf)

He said there was no way to win just cut a run which is what the commie bastard wanted so the North could over run the country. Cronkite was not just a liberal he was in bed with leftist groups the whole time. Maybe he was more subtle than the ranting and raving turds on today but he was pushing the agenda just the same

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 08, 2017 12:48 PM (493sH)

204 Trump is making a classic Bush mistake, he's implementing policy without selling it. He has to be out front with the American people and selling his ideas, not just signing them.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:38 PM (39g3+)

So after 18 months of campaigning and two months of pre inauguration discussion and social media releases, no one understands why Trump wants to hold visa's from seven terrorist sponsoring countries for 120 days while he restructures how the visa applicants are vetted.

Yeah, ok.

Posted by: Jen at February 08, 2017 12:48 PM (cWhln)

205 195 Reuters poll gives Trump a 50.x% approval rating.

Reuters? Probably means he's around 55%

The same outfits that polled Hillary at 14+?

Trump is probably pushing 70%.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 12:48 PM (2w7OO)

206 . The Left doesn't really care about women, minorities and the poor; they're just McGuffins to accumulate power.
Posted by: Kodos the Executioner at February 08, 2017 12:30 PM (mVNYK)

this is the most concise comment, If only the 'women' poor' and 'children' knew this.

We are the direction of giving the individual power over their own existence. The left is about consolidating that power for their politicians and leaving all the above in 'hopium' that it would change one day.
which is never by their having given up their own power absolutely to those above them.

Posted by: willow at February 08, 2017 12:49 PM (R7cwD)

207 He should let his actions speak for themselves.. and, in that regard, he has done very well for only 2 weeks!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 08, 2017 12:19 PM (so+oy)

Yes! Just like we did with W, and that worked out just swell.

Posted by: Gopes-R-Us at February 08, 2017 12:49 PM (TOk1P)

208 MSM benefited from conditions not in place now: . . .

3. Nixon was truly engaged in covering up criminal activity. Trump, on the other hand, is constantly disproving media reports of Fake News.

Shoe is on the other foot.

Posted by: One-eyed Cat Peepin' in the Seafood Store at February 08, 2017 12:49 PM (gzPc2)

209 Wallace said if he was with the Vietnamese forces and became aware that they were going to ambush US troops he *would not warn the Americans*.
Because he was a journalist first, and American second.

I'd say most of today's reporters would agree with that sentiment.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/press/vanities/fallows.html

Posted by: Lizzy at February 08, 2017 12:47 PM (NOIQH)

Would have been a real pity if he had gotten killed in one of those ambushes.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 08, 2017 12:50 PM (493sH)

210 #201

The media is hammering him on immigration with emotional images of sad
kids and families separated and huge crowds protesting. What people
want, they can be swayed on unless given strong arguments.
=======================

Yes. Classic cherry picking for maximum emotional impact.

Posted by: mrp at February 08, 2017 12:50 PM (JBggj)

211 As a resident of Indiana (not EVER to be referred to by that idiotic word that starts with H)

--------

Hanover?

Posted by: Woody Boyd at February 08, 2017 12:50 PM (7HtZB)

212 The media is hammering him on immigration with emotional images of sad kids and families separated and huge crowds protesting. What people want, they can be swayed on unless given strong arguments.

Cost of wall - $10 billion

Cost of social services PER year for illegals- $119 BILLION per year.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 12:50 PM (2w7OO)

213 I have never seen any transcript of Cronkite saying the war was lost. His words were as quoted above.
-----------------------

I was watching Walter the night he reported the news about the Tet Offensive. I don't remember his exact words, but the implication was clear; we had lost the war. It made me sick to my stomach.

Ever since then I have always said that the US can not win a war when half the people in the country are on the side of the enemy.

Maybe you had to be there to see it.

Posted by: Guile Lackman at February 08, 2017 12:50 PM (hyCGn)

214 Trump is making a classic Bush mistake, he's implementing policy without selling it. He has to be out front with the American people and selling his ideas, not just signing them.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:38 PM (39g3+)

I don't think I agree, and I think that's because the policies are not the same. Continuing to fight the war in Iraq is not an appealing proposition. It was certainly the right and smart thing to do, but getting to that point required significant understanding about the political climate over there, and the will to risk many more american lives and billions of dollars.

Trump's policies don't have that issue. Even the ones that the Media is trying to get him on, like the travel ban exec order, I'd argue can make a very easy simplistic case for them. "We want to stop the bad people from coming and hurting us." Whether or not that's accurate of what the policy does or if it is effective, or if doing so is constitutional or not is a way more technical argument that the media has to make than putting up a body count with pictures of dead American marines.

I think Trump can get away with doing this sort of thing because his policies are popular by default. Bushs weren't.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at February 08, 2017 12:50 PM (KUaJL)

215 Yeah it feels good that Trump fights back and I don't want him to stop but has he accomplished shutting down the MSM? They seem to be pushing back twice as hard. The Press is no different in their bias reporting with Trump the same as they were with Bush. It just feels better.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 08, 2017 12:50 PM (N96yY)

216 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 08, 2017 12:19 PM (so+oy)

One of these days you may be correct about Trump and his chances. So on the off-chance do not change.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Can Help You Get Your Garden of Curses In Shape This Spring! at February 08, 2017 12:50 PM (hLRSq)

217 "It will take a generation for the self-licking ice cream cone that is the MSM to fix itself."
Posted by: Diogenes at February 08, 2017 12:09 PM (0tfLf)

Never. The ubercult will never change, and they'll always be able to punch way above their weight.

Watched "Annie Hall" the other night. That scene where Woody is doing his standup and says that back in the day he was attracted to this girl who worked for Ike, saying it was ironic because "I wanted to do to her what Eisenhower was doing to the country."

Eisenhower.

Posted by: Slo-Pitch Whiffer at February 08, 2017 12:50 PM (zke7T)

218 btw: my local tv news is CBS. as soon as that sanctimonious Scott P comes on (even the local breaks to him) I hit off. getting good at detecting even with busy with hands full tasks. I get the feeling this is a natural DJT voter reaction.

Posted by: talgus da Deplorable at February 08, 2017 12:51 PM (fJQAI)

219 201 Disagree. What Trump is "selling" now, is what people have wanted to "buy" for 20 years.

The media is hammering him on immigration with emotional images of sad kids and families separated and huge crowds protesting. What people want, they can be swayed on unless given strong arguments.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:47 PM (39g3+)

====================

It'd be nice if the outlets doing that were self-identified as liberal and an equally sized right leaning media was able to push back.

Sounds like grounds for federal legislation! For equality! (I'm joking...you all should know that I'd hate that idea.)

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 12:51 PM (vur0q)

220 Robert MacNamara (*spits on his grave*) wrote that he and LBJ had
concluded it was unwinnable in 1965 but were afraid to look week.
***
Saying a war is unwinnable is an odd thing...especially when you have more soldiers, more money, and better technology.

A more accurate description of the Vietnam War is the American people were unlikely to support the cost of victory. I have no doubt that a 500,000 strong American invasion of North Vietnam in the 60s with unlimited carpet bombing would have won the war.

Still, the war was won in 1973, at least in the sense of enforcing the status quo. It required another invasion years later for the North Vietnamese to win.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 08, 2017 12:51 PM (X7E8f)

221 So after 18 months of campaigning and two months of pre inauguration discussion and social media releases, no one understands why Trump wants to hold visa's from seven terrorist sponsoring countries for 120 days while he restructures how the visa applicants are vetted.

You know why Coca Cola still advertises? Because you can never stop selling.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:51 PM (39g3+)

222 Headlines today "Trump calls Flynn at 3 AM to ask if a strong dollar or a weak dollar is better ." "Trump says He didn't know being President would be so hard."Etc,etc,etc....

Posted by: deplorable donna at February 08, 2017 12:51 PM (O2RFr)

223 I get daily e-mails from the NY Times...and the wall-to-wall negative coverage of Trump is astonishing. Every headline seems to be written to cast aspersions on him and his presidency. Nothing he does is reported in a straight-line news report. It is always...ALWAYS...twisted to the Democrat's advantage.

Yes, this is to be expected from the Gray Lady. What is fascinating is their absolute lack of introspection. They believe...really believe...that they are the paper of record, that they are doing God's work.

Scary.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 08, 2017 12:52 PM (rF0hx)

224 Problem is Nixonian press is fixated on Republicans only and lets Democrats get a pass over and over and over. Hillary Clinton did things that were far worse than Nixon when it came to 'covering up' the truth. Nixon was impeached, Clinton almost won the presidency. Does the press not see their own hypocrisy on this?

That is why we no longer care about the press. And Donald Trump knows it. I have ZERO problems with Trump targeting these rags who hide behind 'tradition' and the belief that they are 'journalists' when they are no better than tabloid journalists running after the latest alien conspiracy theory.

Posted by: K-E at February 08, 2017 12:52 PM (HlvVu)

225 You know why you can never stop selling?

Because your competition never stops.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:52 PM (39g3+)

226 James Baker III is 86 years old. Proves the good die young.

Posted by: Under Fire at February 08, 2017 12:53 PM (ymRuQ)

227 Headlines today "Trump calls Flynn at 3 AM to ask if a strong dollar or a weak dollar is better ." "Trump says He didn't know being President would be so hard."Etc,etc,etc....
Posted by: deplorable donna at February 08, 2017 12:51 PM (O2RFr)

Again... The Media Lies.
They cannot be trusted.

Posted by: tubal at February 08, 2017 12:53 PM (zSVEm)

228 *Stands and Applauds

Posted by: Hobbiehawk at February 08, 2017 12:53 PM (Qot/z)

229 217: just like all liberals to think of the slang as opposed to two humans enjoying God given pleasure.

Posted by: talgus da Deplorable at February 08, 2017 12:53 PM (fJQAI)

230 "You know why Coca Cola still advertises? Because you can never stop selling."

The tweets and his daily events help drive the narrative from his side. Even when MSM tries to spin it their way.

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 08, 2017 12:53 PM (SIY7D)

231 215 Yeah it feels good that Trump fights back and I don't want him to stop but has he accomplished shutting down the MSM? They seem to be pushing back twice as hard. The Press is no different in their bias reporting with Trump the same as they were with Bush. It just feels better.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 08, 2017 12:50 PM (N96yY)

===================

It's not so much about actually shuttering their operations, but about making their voices less relevant to policy and political discussions at a national level.

They've been diminishing in importance for years (since Rush first started?). Their downfall just seems to have accelerated a bit over the last 18 months or so.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 12:53 PM (vur0q)

232 So how do we get the MSM to go away completely? Because after putting up with their bullshit for so long and still, I have a scorched earth policy towards them. Let the Libtards see what its like to only have conservative reports. Drive them underground. Yea. I'd like that. I'd like that a lot.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at February 08, 2017 12:54 PM (BB1en)

233 199 Let's not forget Mike Wallace's infamous statements during the Charles Ogletree hosted discussion on the "Ethics in America" series. While sitting at a table with military leaders they discussed what they would do in various situation when a journalist was embedded with US vs. Vietnamese forces. Wallace said if he was with the Vietnamese forces and became aware that they were going to ambush US troops he *would not warn the Americans*.
Because he was a journalist first, and American second.

I'd say most of today's reporters would agree with that sentiment.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/press/vanities/fallows.html
Posted by: Lizzy at February 08, 2017 12:47 PM (NOIQH)

I saw that one; I don't recall it being a situation with the Vietnamese but rather just a hypothetical enemy force. One of the participants in the roundtable was an Army captain; when Wallace [hock *ptui*] said this the captain came back and said something to the effect of "If this is your position then I see no reason to protect you from enemy action." Kinda floored Wallace, which gave me a warm feeling.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at February 08, 2017 12:55 PM (RD7QR)

234 232 So how do we get the MSM to go away completely? Because after putting up with their bullshit for so long and still, I have a scorched earth policy towards them. Let the Libtards see what its like to only have conservative reports. Drive them underground. Yea. I'd like that. I'd like that a lot.
Posted by: Cannibal Bob at February 08, 2017 12:54 PM (BB1en)

===================

They'll never go away.

The best we can hope for is for The New York Times to come out as the publicity arm of the DNC.

I actually think we may be closer to that than some people realize.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 12:55 PM (vur0q)

235 The MSM hate us. If you want to stop supporting them, cut the cord. Drop cable, drop your satellite subscription and put the money you saved into a better internet connection and a Roku box.

Buy subscriptions to only the entertainment you want to support, and watch it when you want, not when they want you to. Stream the White House press conferences live and watch Spicer slap the press silly. Find out what is going on by selectively streaming from you tube, or subscribe to bill whittle or Michelle Malkin' channel.

Take control, stop fattening those frogs for snakes.

Posted by: Western Slope Mope at February 08, 2017 12:55 PM (WrMht)

236 that they are the paper of record, that they are doing ~~God's~~ NWO's work.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 08, 2017 12:52 PM (rF0hx)

I think our side consistently makes the mistake of assigning our own motivations to those who are leftist-imbued.

I sincerely hope that this election cycle and the coming 4 years will finally disabuse us of that quaint notion.

Posted by: kallisto at February 08, 2017 12:55 PM (nNdYv)

237 Add to it the fact that if you ever went to any college or university, absolutely the dumbest students and the biggest cheaters were always Journalism majors.
Posted by: navybrat at February 08, 2017 12:26 PM (w7KSn)

And Education majors. Just sayin'.

Posted by: cornbred at February 08, 2017 12:55 PM (f7DTW)

238 You know why Coca Cola still advertises? Because you can never stop selling.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:51 PM (39g3+)

Who says Trump is not still selling. People here bitch about him tweeting and using social media, not becoming of a president.
My argument is toward your assertion that Trump's policies, of which are all of two week old in most cases as far as implementation, are not popular because he hasn't "sold them".

1. They are popular.
2. He's selling them everyday through every means possible.

Posted by: Jen at February 08, 2017 12:56 PM (cWhln)

239 227 Headlines today "Trump calls Flynn at 3 AM to ask if a strong dollar or a weak dollar is better ." "Trump says He didn't know being President would be so hard."Etc,etc,etc....
Posted by: deplorable donna at February 08, 2017 12:51 PM (O2RFr)

Again... The Media Lies.
They cannot be trusted.
Posted by: tubal

I think a billionaire businessman knows which end of a turd is dirty.

I could see a politician not knowing, but a successful businessman?

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 12:56 PM (2w7OO)

240 Winning the media war means dispelling the myth of unbiased reporting. Everyone has an angle, everyone wants you to believe something.

Posted by: Aggressive Micropenis at February 08, 2017 12:56 PM (ZcFKL)

241 171 The leftist media and the left in general are scared shitless because for the first time in a looong time a madman with balls that clank ran for office basically saying he was going to break ALL of their shit, and with a public that got behind him and said fuck yeah dude have at it.
Posted by: Berserker- Dragonheads Division at February 08, 2017 12:39 PM (aMlLZ)

That's the comment of the year.

Posted by: rickl at February 08, 2017 12:57 PM (zoehZ)

242 If the NYT was so successful, they wouldn't need Carlos Slim and Carlos Slim's money.

Posted by: mrp at February 08, 2017 12:57 PM (JBggj)

243 >>I saw that one; I don't recall it being a situation with the Vietnamese but rather just a hypothetical enemy force.

It was - an imaginary country of Kosan (I had Vietnam on the brain w/the Cronkite talk).

I remember watching that show when it initially aired and was floored. I had grown up watching "60 Minutes" every Sunday night and could not believe he would say that - and with no remorse or embarrassment.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 08, 2017 12:57 PM (NOIQH)

244 CBD - and others - I think many, even in a crowd like the Horde, underestimate the pervasiveness and seriousness of the distortion that passes for "media coverage" now.

It's been years since I could even force myself to do it - but go, line by line, through a wire service report on some "hot" news topic. The distortion, the factual errors, in many cases the outlandishly distorted false framework in which everything is set - are breath-taking.

And wire service dispatches - actually now more than before, due to the death of newspapers and the consequence elimination of overseas bureaus - is the lifeblood of "news" reporting. So the basic raw material of much journalism, esp. on the big stories and int'l stories, is often crap.

Have tales to tell of seeing this unfold as it happened, from the inside, on a huge story a few years ago, but anonymity etc etc.

Posted by: rhomboid at February 08, 2017 12:57 PM (QDnY+)

245 Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 12:53 PM (vur0q)

I think that's wishful thinking. Where do you think Robart got the basis for his ruling?

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 08, 2017 12:58 PM (N96yY)

246 The leftist media and the left in general are scared shitless because for the first time in a looong time a madman with balls that clank ran for office basically saying he was going to break ALL of their shit, and with a public that got behind him and said fuck yeah dude have at it.
Posted by: Berserker- Dragonheads Division at February 08, 2017 12:39 PM (aMlLZ)

That's the comment of the year.
Posted by: rickl

Seconded.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 12:58 PM (2w7OO)

247 FOX NEWS ALERT: THERE WILL CONTINUE TO BE FOX NEWS ALERTS UNTIL YOU GET A MIGRAINE AND PASS OUT.
FOX NEWS ALERT

Posted by: Under Fire at February 08, 2017 12:58 PM (ymRuQ)

248 Trump is making a classic Bush mistake, he's implementing policy without selling it. He has to be out front with the American people and selling his ideas, not just signing them.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:38 PM

Isn't this the one thing that TFG allowed was possibly slightly sub-optimal in his otherwise glowing Presidency?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 08, 2017 12:59 PM (DMUuz)

249 Yep, rickl - Beserker, you win the internets today!

Posted by: rhomboid at February 08, 2017 12:59 PM (QDnY+)

250 Drive them underground. Yea. I'd like that. I'd like that a lot.
Posted by: Cannibal Bob at February 08, 2017 12:54 PM (BB1en)
* * *

Younger people are abandoning legacy media in droves. Their information source is alt media. Vloggers are gaining the subscribers that the alphabets are losing. I'm noticing a counter-insurgency forming among the cord-cutting millenials.

They don't like the bullying and terroristic tactics of professional orgs (Antifa) shutting down free speech, for instance. If it is true that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, the interminable protests and their organizers may be in for a very big surprise.

Posted by: kallisto at February 08, 2017 12:59 PM (nNdYv)

251 People complain about journalists and how journalists lie. Journalists, for the most part, do what they're told to do because that's how they earn their paychecks.

It's more important to pay attention to the ways, means, and motives of the people who sign those paychecks.

Posted by: mrp at February 08, 2017 12:59 PM (JBggj)

252 Trump is making a classic Bush mistake, he's implementing policy without selling it. He has to be out front with the American people and selling his ideas, not just signing them.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:38 PM (39g3+)

Selling it to whom? Seems to me you are assuming there's a reasonable press that is open to hearing what he has to say.

Trump is NOTHING like Bush. Bush, let's be honest, beyond being sincere about some things, was not up to the job. The people who ran his White House didn't trust him to put his mouth in motion all that much, so he didn't.

I can't imagine anyone controlling Trump's narrative.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 08, 2017 12:59 PM (TOk1P)

253 244 CBD - and others - I think many, even in a crowd like the Horde, underestimate the pervasiveness and seriousness of the distortion that passes for "media coverage" now.

I think a bunch of people here over-estimate a bunch of people.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 08, 2017 12:59 PM (buBai)

254 Beserker, you win the internets today!

Agreed... We're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore .. or something...

Posted by: deplorable donna at February 08, 2017 01:00 PM (O2RFr)

255 It's fair to say that politically we're split 50%/50%. The big fault line is city v country with suburbs jump ball.

If MSM loses influence, then we can quickly become 55%/45% and then 60%/40%.

The smarter outlets will then reinvent themselves.

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 08, 2017 01:00 PM (SIY7D)

256 245 Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 12:53 PM (vur0q)

I think that's wishful thinking. Where do you think Robart got the basis for his ruling?
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 08, 2017 12:58 PM (N96yY)

=====================

This feels like a bit of a disconnect to what I wrote, but I'll play:

One dumb judge gets influenced by The NYT does not equal The NYT is bringing down a president.

I've always said that the MSM is still powerful. One of my common phrases is:

The MSM isn't dead until The New York Times no longer prints and its website is up for sale. Even then, though, be wary.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 01:00 PM (vur0q)

257 246 The leftist media and the left in general are scared shitless because for the first time in a looong time a madman with balls that clank ran for office basically saying he was going to break ALL of their shit, and with a public that got behind him and said fuck yeah dude have at it.
Posted by: Berserker- Dragonheads Division at February 08, 2017 12:39 PM (aMlLZ)

That's the comment of the year.
Posted by: rickl

Seconded.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 12:58 PM (2w7OO)

3fer...and I'm stealing it.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at February 08, 2017 01:01 PM (BB1en)

258 If MSM loses influence, then we can quickly become 55%/45% and then 60%/40%.
***
The argument I've seen is that the Fake News Media is worth about 15 points at the federal level, and absent their existence America would have roughly the current politics of Texas.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 08, 2017 01:01 PM (X7E8f)

259 a madman with balls that clank

Hoping that the Trump Memorial on the National Mall will have this engraved someplace prominent.

Posted by: Geronimo Stilton at February 08, 2017 01:01 PM (4bKiB)

260 My default is that I DON'T believe the news, and I need convincing proof that they are NOT lying to me.
Little things like factual verifiable information, and transparent sourcing.

After that, it gets ran through my personal biases.

Posted by: tubal at February 08, 2017 01:02 PM (zSVEm)

261 >>CBD - and others - I think many, even in a crowd like the Horde,
underestimate the pervasiveness and seriousness of the distortion that
passes for "media coverage" now.

What finally woke me up to the extent of news manipulation was listening to C-SPAN radio. I would here testimony, hearings, speeches while commuting (or during errands at lunch) and then see how the nightly news reported it. So often they would take one out of context statement and use it to tell whatever story they wanted, and the story would have no relationship to the truth.
Truly enlightening.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 08, 2017 01:02 PM (NOIQH)

262 I need a list of a dozen or so recently headlines or stories that have been proven to be false.

I am having a discussion with a lib friend on why I don't believe the press anymore.

I could go back to Dan Rather, but why?

The NYT even admitted that it was playing fast and loose with the truth, because, they know what is right for us.

Posted by: navybrat at February 08, 2017 01:03 PM (w7KSn)

263 In case no one did it yet, here's a link to that Mike Wallace roundtable discussing the "not warning the Americans because I is Journalist!" bullshit..... at the very end is where a Col. tells them they are contemptuous...

https://tinyurl.com/zghdtsu

Posted by: Dirty Randy at February 08, 2017 01:03 PM (jjaLl)

264 Started a long time ago.

In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests, the steel, ship building
and powder interests and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12
men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the
most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number
of them to control generally the policy of the daily press in the United
States.
These 12 men worked the problems out by selecting 179 newspapers, and
then began, by an elimination process, to retain only those necessary
for the purpose of controlling the general policy of the daily press
throughout the country. They found it was only necessary to purchase
the control of 25 of the greatest papers.

Posted by: MarkC at February 08, 2017 01:03 PM (iWFQR)

265 258 If MSM loses influence, then we can quickly become 55%/45% and then 60%/40%.
***
The argument I've seen is that the Fake News Media is worth about 15 points at the federal level, and absent their existence America would have roughly the current politics of Texas.
Posted by: 18-1 at February 08, 2017 01:01 PM (X7E8f)

======================

Wouldn't it be amazing if we suddenly found ourselves in a constitutional republic again by 2050?

I'm not holding my breath, but it would be amazing.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 01:03 PM (vur0q)

266 It seems to me that the relationship between Trump and the media is nothing if not mutually beneficial. Why does this need explanation to anyone?

Posted by: Alcoholic Asshole Shut In at February 08, 2017 01:04 PM (CPk08)

267 Trump is making a classic Bush mistake, he's implementing policy without
selling it. He has to be out front with the American people and selling
his ideas, not just signing them.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:38 PM (39g3+)

Trump is doing exactly what he said he would do while campaigning. I think the sale took place Nov. 8th.

Posted by: Tami at February 08, 2017 01:04 PM (Enq6K)

268 Pretty much anything the press reports on Donald Trump, I doubt is accurate, and wait for the later correction.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 01:04 PM (39g3+)

269 262 I need a list of a dozen or so recently headlines or stories that have been proven to be false.

I am having a discussion with a lib friend on why I don't believe the press anymore.

I could go back to Dan Rather, but why?

The NYT even admitted that it was playing fast and loose with the truth, because, they know what is right for us.
Posted by: navybrat at February 08, 2017 01:03 PM (w7KSn)

==================

The Federalist had an article that listed somet.

Ace wrote a post about it.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 01:04 PM (vur0q)

270 I'm to the point that when the media goes 'senator so and so said this', I'm like 'really? let me go read the actual transcript of what was said' and nine out of ten times, the media totally lied.

Posted by: IC at February 08, 2017 01:04 PM (a0IVu)

271 Trump is doing exactly what he said he would do while campaigning. I think the sale took place Nov. 8th.

Yes.

Posted by: eleven at February 08, 2017 01:05 PM (qUNWi)

272 What finally woke me up to the extent of news manipulation was listening to C-SPAN radio. I would here testimony, hearings, speeches while commuting (or during errands at lunch) and then see how the nightly news reported it. So often they would take one out of context statement and use it to tell whatever story they wanted, and the story would have no relationship to the truth.

Oh yeah. I love CSPAN for that reason.

It has led to a lot of yelling at the television.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, gentleman cad at February 08, 2017 01:05 PM (mgbwf)

273 260 My default is that I DON'T believe the news, and I need convincing proof that they are NOT lying to me.
Little things like factual verifiable information, and transparent sourcing.

After that, it gets ran through my personal biases.
Posted by: tubal at February 08, 2017 01:02 PM (zSVEm)

---

Believe it or not, back in the day most newsrooms (dead-tree anyway) operated as if they *expected* that of their readers.

Posted by: Slo-Pitch Whiffer at February 08, 2017 01:05 PM (zke7T)

274
248 Trump is making a classic Bush mistake, he's implementing policy without selling it. He has to be out front with the American people and selling his ideas, not just signing them.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 12:38 PM

The people who elected him don't have to be sold, and for the others, well 'elections have consequences.' AND nothing he tries to sell to the Libtards or media will change their reactions. They will protest everything because...Patriotism!

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at February 08, 2017 01:05 PM (BB1en)

275 I need a list of a dozen or so recently headlines or stories that have been proven to be false.

I am having a discussion with a lib friend on why I don't believe the press anymore.

I could go back to Dan Rather, but why?

The NYT even admitted that it was playing fast and loose with the truth, because, they know what is right for us.

Posted by: navybrat at February 08, 2017 01:03 PM (w7KSn)

Here's some....

http://tinyurl.com/j2fmhft

Posted by: Tami at February 08, 2017 01:06 PM (Enq6K)

276 262 I need a list of a dozen or so recently headlines or stories that have been proven to be false.

I am having a discussion with a lib friend on why I don't believe the press anymore.

I could go back to Dan Rather, but why?

The NYT even admitted that it was playing fast and loose with the truth, because, they know what is right for us.
Posted by: navybrat at February 08, 2017 01:03 PM (w7KSn)

There's the Fake News countdown in the sidebar.

Posted by: josephistan at February 08, 2017 01:06 PM (7HtZB)

277 Breaking!:

There is no truth to the rumor that Sen. Warren was silenced because the president of the senate thought she was wearing a pussy hat. High level sources told us, and I quote, "She always looks like that."

We now return you to your regularly scheduled drunk thread.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean (Aware and I WILL NOT COMPLY!) at February 08, 2017 01:06 PM (Gh3fw)

278 I've seen Walter Cronkite, and Mr. Wolfe, you're no Walter Cronkite. (and today, even he wouldn't be, either)

Posted by: Advo at February 08, 2017 01:06 PM (ekVHT)

279 I think the sale took place Nov. 8th.

Yeah, that's what Bush thought too. You can never stop, because your opponent never stops. Its not enough to just do the job as president.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 08, 2017 01:06 PM (39g3+)

280 James Baker III is 86 years old. Proves the good die young.

Posted by: Under Fire at February 08, 2017 12:53 PM (ymRuQ)

Good lord, what's that rotten old pig up to now?

I don't need him to die already, just shut the hell up. He did enough damage when he had actual, you know, power.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 08, 2017 01:07 PM (TOk1P)

281 OT:

Looks like the proposed filibuster against Gorsuch is already dead.

Too many Democratic senators (9, I think) have said that he deserves a vote.

Damn...I was really hoping that they'd do the wrong thing and go whole hog. Oh well, I can still hope that their base will primary the shit out of the vulnerable senators.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 01:07 PM (vur0q)

282 Posted by: IC at February 08, 2017 01:04 PM (a0IVu)

Exactly. All the major news orgs know that the headline is clickbait, and what gets passed around on the socials. So they purposefully create a misleading headline that is not supported by the accompanying text. Because few readers ever get past the first few sentences of the story, if that.

It has happened so many times that a commie posts an article claiming one thing, then when I read the content, usually the opposite is the case.

Posted by: kallisto at February 08, 2017 01:07 PM (nNdYv)

283 The MSM's problem is this: years of excusing bad behavior by their progressive dreamboats has rendered their most potent arguments against Trump moot. Clinton was impeached, and is still spoken of in tones of reverence by these screwheads. In this climate, Nixon would walk away at the end of his second term, unscathed and laughing. That must be our standard.

Posted by: Sixgunsam at February 08, 2017 01:07 PM (FThrt)

284 noodnik

Posted by: eleven at February 08, 2017 01:08 PM (qUNWi)

285 After hearing numerous opinions here on how powerful or not powerful the MFM is, all I have to say is we have a repub congress. Trump won and is basically doing what he said he'd do. A large majority of states have repub governors, many of them with repub legislatures.

Now tell me. How powerful is the MFM?

Posted by: Soona at February 08, 2017 01:08 PM (Fmupd)

286 I'm a Republican, but I am honest enough to admit the reason Mr. Trump invites negative coverage is because he is an extremist.

I am glad we have a press that does not allow bullying and alternative facts to dictate.

Posted by: Susan Olivia Cuthbertson-Klein at February 08, 2017 01:09 PM (ismre)

287 Too many Democratic senators (9, I think) have said that he deserves a vote.

Damn...I was really hoping that they'd do the wrong thing and go whole hog. Oh well, I can still hope that their base will primary the shit out of the vulnerable senators.

Their base will shit bricks.

Hey! More bricks for the wall!

Posted by: rickb223 at February 08, 2017 01:09 PM (2w7OO)

288 Saw a brief clip where American ISIS Antifa terrorists who were blocking bus and light rail traffic were forcefully taken into custody.

Very entertaining, I must say, watching an asshole being force fed pavement.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean (Aware and I WILL NOT COMPLY!) at February 08, 2017 01:09 PM (Gh3fw)

289 281 OT:

Looks like the proposed filibuster against Gorsuch is already dead.

Too many Democratic senators (9, I think) have said that he deserves a vote.

Damn...I was really hoping that they'd do the wrong thing and go whole hog. Oh well, I can still hope that their base will primary the shit out of the vulnerable senators.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at February 08, 2017 01:07 PM (vur0q)

This tells me that RBG is not looking good and they are keeping their powder dry.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at February 08, 2017 01:10 PM (RD7QR)

290 288 Saw a brief clip where American ISIS Antifa terrorists who were blocking bus and light rail traffic were forcefully taken into custody.

Very entertaining, I must say, watching an asshole being force fed pavement.
Posted by: Mr Macca Bean (Aware and I WILL NOT COMPLY!) at February 08, 2017 01:09 PM (Gh3fw)

Good Lord man, saying that and not providing a link to a video is like waving cookies under a fat man's nose and running away with them.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at February 08, 2017 01:11 PM (RD7QR)

291
Now tell me. How powerful is the MFM?
Posted by: Soona at February 08, 2017 01:08 PM (Fmupd)

It mostly just reflects a market. The real question is the lag time/lag type between a shift in market forces and the corporate response.

Posted by: Alcoholic Asshole Shut In at February 08, 2017 01:12 PM (CPk08)

292 Back then, the MSM had a virtual lip lock on the national conversation. It was the 3 nets (NBC, CBS, ABC), and the NYT and the WaPo newspapers that determined what was being talked about, and the way it should be talked about.

Don't forget the wire services. AP and Reuters now, back then AP and UPI.

The wire services have a decisive effect on what is allowed to be reported as news and therefore enter the national conversation.

Remember when Hillary had a seizure right on camera in a coffee shop? That happened literally two feet in front of an AP reporter, who then covered for Hillary. Just one example among a million.

Posted by: Scalia's Ghost at February 08, 2017 01:12 PM (hA1V+)

293 Posted by: Soona at February 08, 2017 01:08 PM (Fmupd)

We have Obamacare, gays and transgenders in the military, no prayers allowed at sporting events or graduations, penises in women facilities, gay marriage, billions of tax dollars to Iran, 'work place' shootings and BLM.

I'd say the Leftist Press has been working overtime.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 08, 2017 01:14 PM (N96yY)

294 261 >>CBD - and others - I think many, even in a crowd like the Horde, underestimate the pervasiveness and seriousness of the distortion that passes for "media coverage" now.
---

The fact is, if you are a howling Team D or Team R partisan, (and many, many, many within the media are the former), you are simply not going to be able to step away from your bias. If the other side is a caricature to you, you are not going to submit yourself even to a moot-courting of their position. It would insult your intelligence or, worse, call it into question.

I'd like for Ace to go back to the vault for the things he wrote about how the media reports liberal-favoring events as unvarnished facts, and when the facts seem to favor conservatives, the first-day news is the conservatives are likely to "seize on reports" of the thing to advantage themselves. Then, when someone complains about bias they can say, hey, we reported on that.

Anyway, the way he said it was way better than I just did. But that shit is real.

Posted by: Slo-Pitch Whiffer at February 08, 2017 01:17 PM (zke7T)

295 MSM has been able to shape the national debate. NYT editor has bragged about controlling the National Conversation and in fact the NYT picks what it writes about months ahead with exactly that in mind.

Trump's tweets may seem stupid but it's how Trump's been changing the National Conversation. MSM may piss on Trump's tweets, but he's picking the topic.

e.g.

Big increase in traffic into our country from certain areas, while our people are far more vulnerable, as we wait for what should be EASY D!

e.g.

If the U.S. does not win this case as it so obviously should, we can never have the security and safety to which we are entitled. Politics!

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 08, 2017 01:18 PM (SIY7D)

296 I need a list of a dozen or so recently headlines or stories that have been proven to be false.
I am having a discussion with a lib friend on why I don't believe the press anymore.
I could go back to Dan Rather, but why?
The NYT even admitted that it was playing fast and loose with the truth, because, they know what is right for us.

Posted by: navybrat at February 08, 2017 01:03 PM (w7KSn)

check out this fake news compendium:

http://bit.ly/2kO9i1U

Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at February 08, 2017 01:18 PM (1AO29)

297 I'm old enough to remember the Dems claiming in 2008 when their guy got elected that "those stupid pubes will never harness technology and will therefore lose every election going forward..."

Hey assholes! Hows that technology working out for your side NOW muthafuckas?! lol

Posted by: groovemetal at February 08, 2017 01:20 PM (GZSAO)

298 From a recent tweet, Trump links to

http://thefederalist.com/2017/02/06/

16-fake-news-stories-reporters-have-run-

since-trump-won/

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 08, 2017 01:21 PM (SIY7D)

299 Re: Bush thought he could ignore them. Be above it, he thought.

Was he 'above it' or playing his role in the uniparty? After his family's support of Hillary, I have to wonder how long he was playing Republicans for fools.

Posted by: squeakywheel at February 08, 2017 01:30 PM (f31Us)

300 Trump is not thin skinned. He simply embodies The Order of the Thistle motto: Nemo me impune lacessit.

And he wields Twitter like the Hammer of Thor.

Posted by: regular joe at February 08, 2017 01:31 PM (O50yS)

301 My schadenboner literally pulled my SUV out of a snow drift.
Then flexed like freakin Hercules.

just sayin'

Posted by: Fox at February 08, 2017 02:30 PM (DVC2D)

302 For the last word on MSM hysterics, please see the February issue of The New Criterion and read James Bowman's article, "Cessation of the Oracles." It is a gem. I sent part of it to Frank Sesno - last week he chaired a panel about Media in the wake of Trump, and that ahole James Acosta opined "We in the media decide what truth is." Ari Fliesher was loaded for bear and took him out, but what a pretentious loudmouth. Not even the Pope has the balls to make that claim.

Posted by: vivi at February 08, 2017 03:14 PM (11H2y)

303 Donald Trump is obsessed with the media in the same way that the rest of us are obsessed with wiping and flushing.

Posted by: Marooned at February 08, 2017 03:25 PM (KdYVH)

304 When the media wires something like this Trump isn't winning, Trump has won.

Posted by: jukin Former Republican at February 08, 2017 03:51 PM (00CYo)

305 OM, very nice post. Sorry I was out of pocket today and couldn't comment.

You, JJ, Mis Hm, and other cobs are doing a great job of helping keep AoS what it is.

Been a fair bit of turnover, and (no disrespect) I sense just a bit of burnout in Ace.

All this is to said, to sill of you, I hope you hang in. You are doing the Lord's work and it is sorely needed.

Posted by: RM at February 08, 2017 11:14 PM (2MdLo)

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